Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 5 – The Door – EARLY SPOILER CHAT!

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Oops, HBO has done it again. Well, HBO Nordic in this case. The newest episode of Game of Thrones season 6, “The Door,” has leaked and unfortunately is already all over the internet.

Rather than spend the next ten hours chasing down spoilers, we’re going to open up this chat as a Spoiler Quarantine for “The Door.” People who have watched the episode early can chat about it in this post, and ONLY this one. Comments in other posts will be deleted, so keep your chat contained here. We ask that you do not post any links to any downloads/torrent sources. Comments of that nature will be deleted.

So here it is, your early spoiler chat, radioactive nuclear-hot Spoiler Quarantine for “The Door.” Have at it!

*Note: Our usual Open Chat will be up later this afternoon at the regular time with the standard rules for those who have avoided spoilers and skipped pirating the episode.*

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

1,028 Comments

  1. What a remarkable episode. The ending completely blew my mind. The episode is jampacked and for me this Seasons episodes get better and better. Whenever I watch one I think its the best of the season, just until the next one arrives and its better than the one before. And we are just done with half the season.

  2. I posted my question in other thread it was deleted. Again I am posting for the first time here but have been lurking for some time now.

    Is there a treatment for grayscale in the books?

    The Door is officially the saddest episode, even beats Red Wedding, in my book. Absolutely devastating……

  3. Night’s King!

    Bran sneaks out to watch a horror flick….

    … Yes, and maybe a Hodor flick, too?

  4. I know at least one person on Westeros.org actually guessed the “hold the door” thing several years ago. Congratulations to them.

    Though as we near the endgame, more and more “fan theories” are going to be proven accurate (and many more disproved). One also sees that in the reactions to the origin of the White Walkers.

  5. Arya’s face at the Ned scenes 🙁

    Also, an asskicking for the waif is overdue. I can’t wait for Arya to overcome her.

    Also, it’s interesting that only Nymeria and Ghost remain. Hopefully they don’t axe Nymeria this season. Is it true that her wolf army is making an appearance this season?

  6. Sean C.,

    Kudos to them.

    Ohh god, many will be angry at the WW origin. It was such a big thing that created dozens of theories. Some will be without a doubt disapointed.

  7. Jinx47,

    Remember what Stannis once told Shireen in the show? I think it was even last season. He got all the men to Dragonstone that promised a cure, but noone could help. I think thats the exact thing we know from the books as well. At least I cant remember something else.

  8. Amazing episode. Definitely top 5. I cried so much during the last scene… Poor Wyllis. RIP 3ER and Summer. Kingsmoot was great, I loved Euron. And Jon with the cloak OH MY he looked just like Ned. Also Littlefinger seemed genuinely sorry for what happened to Sansa, but I’m glad she didn’t forgive him. Great acting by Sophie Turner. I give this episode a perfect 10. How could they top this episode is beyond me.

  9. Rest in piece, you marvalous giant, the fandom shall never be the same..

    A moment of silence, for Hodor please.

  10. RawJah:
    Jinx47,

    Remember what Stannis once told Shireen in the show? I think it was even last season. He got all the men to Dragonstone that promised a cure, but noone could help. I think thats the exact thing we know from the books as well. At least I cant remember something else.

    Thank you. I wonder if they are going to change it in the show. Otherwise there was no point to have it as the only Denny moment this episode and spent so much precious time on it.

    I also read somewhere that the whole season details as description has been leaked.

  11. Sean C.:
    I know at least one person on Westeros.org actually guessed the “hold the door” thing several years ago.Congratulations to them.

    Though as we near the endgame, more and more “fan theories” are going to be proven accurate (and many more disproved).One also sees that in the reactions to the origin of the White Walkers.

    Well fans had 20 years to think things through. I’m glad this theory was correct… I always found it fascinating.

  12. I was screaming when Summer died ?
    And Hodor ?

    Kingsmoot was too rushed imo, but i understand, they have to make space for Bran. Euron don’t look too threatening up to this point. Will this be the last time we see them?

    Daenarys, you just played the cruelest version of friendzone ?

  13. What did you guys think about the Kingsmoot? I actually liked it. Honestly, the whole thing bored me somewhat in the books, but I love seeing psycho Euron on screen. Kudos to Yara and Theon for stealing the entire fleet and getting the hell out of dodge.

  14. Jinx47,

    Well Shireen was cured somehow.

    Most likely they simply tried so many things, they don’t really know witch treatment actually cured her.

    Ian glenn also gave some hints he may be in S7…So we may see him again.

  15. What a wonderful wonderful episode. That ending was just spectacular. Every scene was brilliantly done by Jack Bender.

    And Hodor, we are gonna miss him

  16. Rhaenys Stark:
    Well fans had 20 years to think things through.

    That’s pretty much it. When you have many thousands of people speculating on the future of the story, give them years in which to do it, and an internet to share their ideas over, it’s inevitable that at least somebody will figure most of the story details out, given sufficient information from the source material. There are only so many ways a story can develop, after all, and nothing new under the sun.

  17. #SaveTheDirewolves #SaveTheStarks

    RIP Summer and Hodor. Lighting a candle for Ghost and Nymeria. Hodor’s story is so tragic.

    This was the best episode of the season so far. Arya’s scene outside was so hilarious. I called it when I said Sansa will be making clothes for her and Jon this season. Bran will have some major character development next (the guilt he must feel is insane and he’s giving me serious Frodo vibes). Jon has completed his transformation into “Season 1 Ned Stark in the crypts of Winterfell”.

    Also, thank you Davos for telling Sansa what’s up.

    I love Yara and Meera so much! MEERA IS OP IN THIS EPISODE!!!!!

  18. I thought the biggest reveal even more so than the walkers’ origin was the little moment when Meera stabbed to death one of WWs with what appeared to be an ordinary spear. Did I get that reveal right?

  19. Jinx47,

    It was a spear the Children used, without a doubt it had Dragonglass.

    The death animation was just like when Jon killed one in hardhome and when Sam killed his in S3.

  20. I’m so mad about Summer. Save the direwolves!!!

    The WW origin story makes sense if you look at the First Men and Andal Invasions. It’s GoT’s version of Age of Ultron.

  21. I can’t wait to watch this in HD

    From the Dany Jorah scene, to the end with Summer and Hodor,
    I am a mess of emotions

    Seriously, I cried like a baby at the end (something not even Neds Death or the Red Wedding did to me)

  22. Mihnea:
    Jinx47,

    It was a spear the Children used, without a doubt it had Dragonglass.

    The death animation was just like when Jon killed one in hardhome and when Sam killed his in S3.

    Oh thank you, it was hard to see on the WEBRIP version. Another reason to stay late night to rewatch everything.

  23. Can someone explain me all the Sansa-Jon things?
    Sansa says to LF, Jon is her brother and she doesn’t trust him… he answers that she needs an army to be loyal only to her.
    Later she said lies to Jon, and tries to get an army loyal to her like LF told her to do?
    Also the look everyone gave to her when she said she is real Stark and people will support her and Jon is as Stark as Ramsay is Bolton.
    Then she was like, i am so happy i lied and i am getting an army but then she gave a direwolf coat to Jon while smiling. Sansa confused me!

    The last scene was amazing! So sad for Hodor.

  24. I still need to truly grasp the end, where Bran is half in the present, half in the past, while warging…

    Its complex shit.. but intriguing as hell.

  25. Jinx47,

    No there is no cure even in the books. People have been cured (like shireen), but so many different things were tried on them that no one knows what exactly cured them

  26. Mihnea,

    Yes. Summer’s whimpers got to me bad and Hodor’s fate was so sad. His entire life was a tragedy because he was meant to be a sacrificial lamb. Seeing baby Hodor and old Hodor struggling was heart-wrenching. I even cried for that last child of the forest.

  27. Mihnea,

    Apart from the spectacular last scene, I also cried when Sansa talked about what Ramsay did to her and when Jorah finally confessed his love to Dany. Amazing scenes and perfect acting by everyone involved, especially Sansa and Jorah. Can’t wait to see the preview for next week.

  28. Mihnea:
    Anyone going to talk about the theater scene?

    It was hilarious! And sad….

    i wanted more of that. the theatre company is a very interesting and impressive collection of actors. And this season we are having way too much grotesque male nudity. That shot of penis with warts was disturbing even on my WBERIP version.

  29. Rhaenys Stark,

    It was still preaty fresh so Sansa’s scene didn’t made me burst into crying but it definetly started there!
    God I love Ian Glenn, May he return to us soon.

    It was more a culmination of the entire episode rather then Hodor alone.
    Hodor was just the final straw….

  30. Hey Sansa, soooo Bran’s wolf just died….just kinda wondering where you got all that fur for Jon’s new cloak?!?!

  31. HelloThere,

    Yes. I prefer books and was really skeptical of this theory, but D&D already showed us they can make massive changes from the books. So in the show this theory may still be true.

  32. Jinx47,

    Wait until you see it in HD..

    Well there was complaints we didn’t get enough male nudity…. I just doubt this is the kind of nudity the ladies wanted. LOL

  33. Something about that scene between Jorah and Dany just made me feel like Jorah isn’t coming back into the story ever…

    It felt like the end (and i felt like Dany knew it, which is what made me feel emotional)

  34. I wish I could say I stopped myself BUT I COULDN’T, and I’ll watch again at air time, and twice after that. Holy shit.

  35. I wouldn’t be surprised if we lose Nymeria and Ghost this season. Who will be the last direwolf standing?

    I’m so upset. #SaveTheDirewolves

  36. So Sansa is back to being a bitch to Jon after only one episode?

    -Reminds him he is a bastard and actually uses his name and status in a sentance in a comparison to Ramsey… WhatTheFu*k?
    -Lies to him
    – Tries to make it up to him by making him a cloak with the smallest Stark sigil possible and giving herself a frikn bat symbol sized Stark symbol on her chest.

    He is visibly offended by both of her slights.

    Unship Jon and that bi*ch please.

  37. HelloThere,

    Ian, did say in a interview he is curious to see how Jorah’s story progresses.

    He might be back later on.. Perhaps not this season…who know..

  38. Jinx47,

    Only children can be saved, but not exactly treated. All grown ups are dead in some years… it’s strange how fast it’s advancing on Jorah.

    Anyway, this was an AMAZING episode!!! Well, an amazing ending. Until the Bran scenes it was alright. That’s the perfect word to describe it: alright. I liked the scenes with Sansa, nothing special. I kind of disliked what happened with Arya… she’s supposed to be no one, so why was she laughing and getting angry at that play?? Her Stark persona should be a long way beneath the surface…. if she reacted so easy to that the Faceless Man would know.

    The Moot… it started poorly, it was disappointing just like the arguments Yara and Euron used, but I liked Alfie Allen’s acting A LOT!!!

    Now Bran, WOW!!!! They started so fast explaining one of the great mysteries of the story: the origin of the White Walkers. It was one of the most popular theories out there… but with Hodor??? Bran being responsible, a lot fewer people believed that (also because in the books we didn’t know that young Walder was a normal boy). The ending was so touching… GOT hasn’t moved me like this in seasons.

    PS: WTF happened with Summer?? They’re really killing all the direwolves?? Why? They don’t want to spend the CGI budget on anything else than dragons??? I’m almost sure nothing like this happens in the books, they’ve shrank their importance from the start and now they’re just getting rid of them. It’s the only thing I kind of disliked about this episode. Poor Hodor 🙁

  39. alwayswinter,

    I’m pretty sure they have supplies at the Wall (fur, leather, etc.). I’m shocked she made everything so fast lol. She’d destroy everyone on Project Runway.

  40. Things I felt during this episode
    – Fuck yeah Sansa!
    – YAAAS YARA!
    – don’t know if I completely hate or kinda like Euron
    – Shit that’s how the white walkers came to be
    – awwww Jorah & yas dany don’t let him leave
    – Poor Arya (no one) having to watch that play
    – oooooo Varys just got shut down
    – Bran you absolute idiot.
    – That one small moment when tormund smiles at Brienne <3 SHIP
    – oh shit the walkers are here, WAKE UP BRAN
    – noooooo SUMMER </3
    – My heart is being ripped into a million pieces. Hodor you sweet giant. You had to live your whole life being taunted for being a half-wit. But you weren't a half-wit. You were sweet, and loyal, and innocent, and strong. And you held the door <3

  41. Connor,

    Nah… I doubt it.

    He is just a face to the WW, we need this in a TV show.
    The enemies need to have a face, he embodies this.

  42. Hoyti Von Totiy,

    What’s it like being a founding member of the He Man Woman Hater’s Club?

    “Her Stark emblem was bigger than his!” Fuck me bloody if that’s what you’re on about. What are you, eight years old?

  43. Flayed Potatoes:
    alwayswinter,

    I’m pretty sure they have supplies at the Wall (fur, leather, etc.). I’m shocked she made everything so fast lol. She’d destroy everyone on Project Runway.

    Those intricate embroideries and leatherwork!!!! She must have had half of Asian child labour from Apple plants assisting out. 🙂

  44. Seeing all this COTF and WW lore coming to pass, I just want to know more. Though probably we will need to wait for the books for that.

    Was that man the COTF turned into a WW the Night King?

  45. Also.

    I am chellanging everyone to convince me that the story will end with a pact or truce with the WW.

    There will be a final battle and without a doubt Dany will also be there with the dragons.

  46. Man… I don’t want Sansa to forgive LF or anything but the knights of the Vale sure would’ve come in handy at this point.

  47. Mihnea,

    I did cry for hodor , but didn’t even get a little sad on dany/jorah scene because of her terrible acting.

  48. I’m a bit annoyed at Sansa. All Littlefinger had to do is say one sentence and she now starts lying to Jon. That Tully plan won’t work imo. She’ll come crawling back to LF and he’ll use her again and manipulate her against Jon. I hope it backfires and LF gets served, but I don’t think he’s done playing the Starks.

    She was way out of her league in the strategy meeting and Davos saw that. Jon planning the campaign was a nice reference to how he planned Stannis’ campaign in ADWD. He knows Northern houses. I get what her intention was with the Jon/Ramsay comparison, but it’s one of those things that sounds good in your head, but terrible when spoken lol.

    Jon = KITN CONFIRMED IMO

  49. Flayed Potatoes,

    Haha yes I was just looking to add a bit of levity to the situation, what with all the direwolves now dying all of the time 🙁

    My mind just wandered to an eventual Bran/Jon/Sansa reunion where Bran looks at Jon like “that motherf***er’s wearing my wolf!”

    Anyway, an amazing, heartbreaking ep imo. 5 down, 5 to go!!

  50. shinmenmusashi:
    HelloThere,

    Yes. I prefer books and was really skeptical of this theory, but D&D already showed us they can make massive changes from the books. So in the show this theory may still be true.

    I don’t know about that.

    The final scene was so powerful, it had the ring of truth; GRRM truth.

    And if it wasn’t cribbed from Cogman’s talks with GRRM about his ultimate plans, then Cogman has made a massive contribution to the series. Because I bought that entirely ; hook, line and sinker.

  51. I was also very intrigued by the “passive agressive” conversation between Varys and the Red Priestess. So much said and yet unsaid. I need to rewatch that scene.
    Did she indicate that she is working with Mel? What did she communicate to Varys when she touched his hand?

    What was the meaning of all of it?

  52. Connor,

    It doesn’t really work with the story of the Night’s King who was a brother of the Watch, a human…. I mean in his time the wall was already built. It’s obvious what we saw tonight takes place a long time before the story of the Night’s King. I’m not sure they’ll explain it in the show… they don’t need to, but in the books it’s probably just a position that’s passed down from a White Walker to another…

  53. Brienne’s comments about Jon were pretty hilarious and on point. Class episode, but pretty traumatising 🙁 I wish they’d just leave the fricking direwolves alone! It’s gonna be some trek to get back to the wall safe with no wolf and no giant!

  54. alwayswinter,

    Poor Bran.

    I am 100% sure he makes it past the Wall and it will allow the WW to come through….since he’s been marked and all.

    It’s tough being a Stark fan lmao.

  55. Am I the only one feeling like the show has done a bad job explaining Children of the Forest? And now they are all dead. (?)

    I’m going to guess that Benjen will be saving Bran and Meera. Or maybe it’s Coldhands (don’t think so).

  56. Rhaenys Stark,

    Brienne’s statement pretty clearly indicated that we’re meant to think it’s trust issues. Why exactly, I’m not sure, but there you are. And she may not want to get into that she turned down the Arryn army, which they kind of need.

    Hoyti Von Totiy:
    Ok leaving the last bit behind, she lied to him and compared Ned/Jon to Roose/Ramsey in a single sentance. After all Ramsey did to her?

    The point of that statement was not to compare character.

  57. the last episode I cried at was The Red Wedding, now bam here comes the season 6 emotions train…Jon/Sansa last week, Hodor this week
    I’ll be so dehydrated by the end of the season

  58. I have a feeling that we will get Benjen next week, to save Bran and Meera from some wights.

  59. So where did Jon & Co actually go? They all left Castle Black at the end but where are they heading?

  60. Rhaenys Stark:
    Why do you guys think Sansa lied to Jon?

    I think LF’s half-brother comment got to her. He’s manipulating her. I remember Sophie saying there will be some sibling rivalry.

  61. (Deep sigh)

    I don’t know anymore; it just seems like they’re rushing WAY too fast to the end. You bring in Max von Sydow to play Bloodraven…and you kill him off after three episodes without even going into his backstory or explaining any kind of importance to the larger plot outside of being a deus ex machina for Bran?! George has hinted for years that the White Walkers are more interesting and complicated than the mindless force of destruction they appear to be…and the show just makes them into mindless zombies created by the Children of the Forest as a WMD to be used against the Andals. Call me Linda if you wish, but these are HUGE opportunities missed in the name of rushing to finish. Hopefully, George will get the chance to finish his story on his terms in the books because the ending we are getting here feels so reductive compared to what could be. Maybe this story works if I just judge it as a single work of TV as opposed to the knowledge that I have from the books, but I find it harder and harder to do so.

  62. Oh god i was so sad for hodor.Honestly has there ever been a more tragic character than hodor?I understand his purpose but that was heartbreaking I felt even worse than during the red wedding cause he was completely inocent and pure and had a terrible ending

  63. Mihnea:
    Rhaenys Stark,

    About LF? That’s her personal fight and struggle, she didn’t want Jon’s help with this.
    It was something she herself needed to do.

    No, the weird stuff is that LF talked to her against Jon, and she followed his advice. On the top she started lying to Jon. Brienne asked her why she lied and she didn’t even answer. Then she gave him a coat.
    It’s not personal…she wants Jon to fight a war for her, but she makes clear that people will get behind her and she wants the army to be loyal to her.
    She hides information from the people who are going to be on the battlefield.

  64. Connor,

    Without any news of the actor coming to the GOT set?? Not happening. Maybe Coldhands… I never really gave him that much importance, but the visual of a huge elk might be something D&D would want to put in the show. They don’t have Hodor to carry him, how can Meera do it alone?

  65. Ser Arian the lazy,

    Her acting wasn’t terrible, especially in that scene. I think Emilia’s great when she portrays a vulnerable, not-so-smug young woman. Her ‘regal’ scenes are sometimes off, but definitely not terrible.

  66. RBloodworth,

    If you think the WW’s origin is different in the books, you are fooling yourself.

    The story is turning into a fantasy story, with a bit of politics in it, both books and show.

  67. I didnt watch the episode yet, but i read it on a reddit post earlier. I only read the parts with Bran though.

    I am pissed about Summer dying though, i am NOT ready to see Summer die tonight 🙁

  68. Hounded:
    So where did Jon & Co actually go? They all left Castle Black at the end but where are they heading?

    The first recruit North house, which one is the closest?

  69. Game of Thrones Wiki is in chaos once again due to the fools at HBO Nordic.

    I can’t “ignore” the spoilers when I’m one of the guys who has to actively remove them – moderators here must know the feeling. God damn it.

  70. Sean C.,

    But was there some double meaning in that sentence? On the one hand, she is saying that there is no reason for people to prefer Ramsey over Jon as they are both bastards, on the other emphasising that they are both bastards after all.

  71. RBloodworth,

    Yeah keep waiting,i’m sure when he’s done with all the novels he’s written on his Not a Blog about Hugo puppies or whatever else irrelevant shit that no one cares about he’s eventually going to finish the books .

  72. Rhaenys Stark,

    She doesn’t want Jon to know she met with LF, that’s for sure. You’d think she’d see past what LF did and just just hate-use him for his 45k army, though.

  73. Flayed Potatoes: I think LF’s half-brother comment got to her. He’s manipulating her. I remember Sophie saying there will be some sibling rivalry.

    I agree it has something to do with LF’s last words about Jon. But I am sure it is not the interpretation of some people in this thread. And I am pretty confident she finds out about LF’s role in her father’s death this season.

  74. Vlad,

    They created the perfect situation to bring him back, by showing him in the flashbacks.
    I think he’ll be back.

  75. Mihnea,

    Well, the origin is obviously this… but them being simply a mindless destruction force??? We’ll see, I doubt it. You said earlier that it will end up in a huge battle… well, that sounds cliched as hell :)). No, I don’t think we’re getting a truce, but it’s possible they simply put them back to sleep. Why did the White Walkers stop killing for 8000 years? what brought them back? it’s obviously not the Children of the Forrest again.

  76. R.I.P.Hoddor.,

    This, Jon is risking his life after her pushing, and now she is withholding crucial information from him, that there is a Vale army ready to help them if they wanted.
    The North irritated me this episode.

  77. Vlad,

    Yup, cliched. But once you throw away this notion that Martin is some kind of Jesus, who destroys tropes, it makes perfect sense. You don’t like it, just because you think he’ll throw a catch in the last minute…it won’t happen. You are lying to yourself.

    Mindless? Did you saw the NK and the other WW, they are clearly not mindless.
    The horde of wights they control is.

  78. Flayed Potatoes,

    I think that if we’re going to get a CH like character, this is the time. Meera and Bran need help without Wylis, may he Hold The Door In Peace.

  79. Mihnea:
    Also.

    I am chellanging everyone to convince me that the story will end with a pact or truce with the WW.

    There will be a final battle and without a doubt Dany will also be there with the dragons.

    I was wondering about this. Fire did not seem to bother the WWs in this episode either, so should we assume that it’s only dragonfire that will prove deadly for them?

  80. Apart from the ending scene, this episode was a let down imo. Kingsmoot was butchered. Dany’s story is just fanservice at this point. The new Red Priestess is just cheesy. Littlefinger & Sansa stuff was meh, Castle Black stuff was cool I suppose, but when is it not?

    All complaints aside:

    That ending was at Hardhome levels of intensity. Like, holy shit. Fast paced, intense, exciting, heartbreaking… WHY DID THEY HAVE TO KILL SUMMER?? That whimpering broke my heart. And poor, poor Wyllis 🙁 He gave his life, his honor, his sanity for one purpose… he held the door ’til the very end 🙁

  81. ghost of winterfell:
    Sean C.,

    But was there some double meaning in that sentence? On the one hand, she is saying that there is no reason for people to prefer Ramsey over Jon as they are both bastards, on the other emphasising that they are both bastards after all.

    Well, couldn’t she hints and foreshadowing at having Jon legitimised which I suspect is coming.

  82. ghost of winterfell,

    I agree. Just wait till they get to those Northern houses and they’ll barely have soldiers to spare because they are: poor, rekt after the Red Wedding, rekt after taking their homes back from the Ironborn (as the show told us). She’s in for a rude awakening. 🙁

  83. FFS!!! I come here to check if there is any interesting news on GoT day and I see this. HBO really have to do more to prevent leaks. I know they say they are trying, but they have to try more.

    Thank you to the mods for creating this thread, so people who have seen the episode can talk without ruining the other threads. I haven’t seen the episode yet, and won’t until it airs as 1) I don’t have time to watch it in full, and 2) I’d rather watch it the intended way; it is hardly worth the bother of watching a pirated version a few hours before the episode actually airs anyway.

    I’ll stay away from the site until I have seen the episode, because I don’t want to be spoiled in any thread. Hopefully no one else is spoiled (unless they want to be), and at least this thread warns people (I haven’t read any comments so I don’t know if people have been spoiled or not).

    I hope this doesn’t happen again, but I bet it will.

  84. Anyone else kind of irritated by Euron’s portrayal this episode? It wasn’t necessarily bad, but it wasn’t good either. It was just sort of bland. Shame, too, because his introduction in episode 2 was so promising.

  85. Hoyti Von Totiy,

    God, are you that dense? She’s saying that Ramsey is NO BETTER than Jon, because they are BOTH bastards of their lord fathers, NOT SAYING IT AS A BAD THING, JUST A FACT OF BLOOD AND BIOLOGY. Ramsey has no better claim on anything than Jon, Ramsey just got a piece of paper signed by a false boy king that says he’s legitimized, but we know what defense paper shields give, and what the people of the north think of the people trying to rule them from the south.

    It must be exhausting being you, being so righteously pissed off at the wrong things all of the time.

  86. I think the end of the dire wolves marks will mark the beginning of the final war.It sort of marks the end of their childhood.

  87. Austen:
    Anyone else kind of irritated by Euron’s portrayal this episode? It wasn’t nescarrily bad, but it wasn’t good either. It was just sort of bland. Shame, too, because his introduction in episode 2 was so promising.

    The whole Kingsmoot felt straight out of Chris Nolan’s “Dark Knight” in its composition and execution down to the music. Cinematically it was a departure. Don’t people agree?

  88. Mihnea:
    All in all this is easly in my top 5!

    S6, so far is my favourite!! Just amazing all over.

    Definitely top 5 for me, perhaps even top 3 after rewatch.

  89. HelloThere,

    It’s among the only 4 good-ish things in AFFC.

    I loved that he wasn’t a complete mad man, with blue lips and so on. He was Ironborn,

  90. Jinx47,

    The Umbers are the closest but they’ve already sided with the Boltons so I guess they’ll avoid them. Perhaps the Hornwoods? Then they might split up – some of the will go to Bear Island for the Mormonts and some of them to White Harbour for the the Manderlys

  91. Ok so the priestess scene makes me believe that the whole prophecy thing relies strongly on religious propaganda (especially her saying she’ll send the priests to do PR work essentially lol). Both GURM and D&D have shown some healthy religious skepticism, so I hope this remains the same going forward. Many characters will fulfill a role in the war with the WW. Some will provide soldiers, some knowledge, some combat experience, some heavy fire related artillery lol. Also, her obsession with fire and purification is creepy….she’s creepier than Mel lmao.

  92. Flayed Potatoes,

    Yup, the way it looks to me now, she will have to go back to LF for the Vale army, and it’s LF once again who holds all the cards. I do hope there is some final twist in this tale that we can’t see now 🙁

  93. Mihnea,

    I actually love AFFC (on rereads, 1st read is a slog), but I hated the kingsmoot… went on.. and on… and on… and yes it was cool in the end (with the dragon horn), but it was never even on my radar for scenes i wished to see on the show.

  94. Hounded:
    Jinx47,

    The Umbers are the closest but they’ve already sided with the Boltons so I guess they’ll avoid them. Perhaps the Hornwoods? Then they might split up – some of the will go to Bear Island for the Mormonts and some of them to White Harbour for the the Manderlys

    Hornwoods was prominently featured on the map shot. So possibly there. But I agree they are most likely splitting up for the next three episodes.

  95. That Night’s King guy is ruthless fkhead isn’t he.. And what could it mean that Bran now has his mark? WTF

  96. WTF, why another direwolf had to die?! This episode was so mesmerazing! I think it was comparable to the red wedding plot twist. I felt sorry for Hodor and his written long time ago destiny. Can’t wait to see how Bran is figuring out how to become proper three-eyed raven. And I am a bit angry of the death the former one- does it mean that there won’t be any hint of Tower of Joy plot in this season? I’m so confused after this episode!

  97. Austen,

    I don’t find Euron very threatening tbh. And the fact that his ships were stolen so easily doesn’t help his case lmao. I’m curious how he’ll build 1000 ships so quickly 😛

  98. Jinx47:
    And I am pretty confident she finds out about LF’s role in her father’s death this season.

    How would she learn that?

  99. Criterion,

    I won’t stop watching the show. It’s still my favorite show on television, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t see flaws in it and express my opinion about them.

  100. HelloThere,

    Now…this is a strange thing… LOL. Won’t hear people who liked AFFC say the KM was bad…

    I agree with you though, I disliked it a bit, way to long for first.
    And then came the convienient plot device for Dany…

  101. Mihnea,

    I actually don’t believe that GRRM plans on undermining every trope :). Nope. Well, people who just skim the story don’t see this, but he does kind of turn upside down all the fantasy tropes…. but if you go even deeper, he does actually follow all the fantasy tropes :))…. because well, they work.

    When it comes to White Walkers, I don’t think he’ll keep to them. Why? Well, because all his work is paralleled with Lord of the Rings. He thinks about this constantly and actually keeps bringing it up in interviews. Even in LOTR there are consequences even after the last huge battle: the destruction and retaking of the Shire. He’s not going to give a simpler story thank Tolkine well…. because he simply won’t do it :), even if maybe it seems contrived. That’s the way he thinks.

    As for the White Walkers, I’m not saying that they are mindless, of course they’re not, this is not the Zombie apocalypse :). No, but their actions and their destruction of everything living is mindless. There’s no negotiation, no compromise, no mercy, no nothing…. and I don’t think the fact that they were created by the Children of the Forrest is sufficient to give them the complexity GRRM would desire for them. I hope I made myself clear… I’m not viewing GRRM as a perfect writer, far from it

  102. I wonder if we’ll see more of BLoodraven in flasbacks (we know we are getting more, right?)

  103. RawJah,

    Yeah maybe and the NK even did some weird crap to the ground which made it crack/break? I suppose that’s going to happen to the Wall aswell.

  104. Mihnea:
    Jinx47,

    The drowning scene was, to me, one of the best stand-alone scene in the show.

    I agree. Aeron’s speech was sooo good. I think that drowning thing happens in the books right? The Ironborn drown their children and if they die they are not worthy or something like that.

  105. Sean C.,

    What if the chain of events goes like this –
    Sansa has refused Littlefinger’s help but he will ignore this and still bring the Vale army to help in the battle for the North and help secure the Stark victory. Littlefinger is counting on this putting him back in Sansa’s good books and making her grateful for his help. However in the meantime Sansa has discovered what Littlefinger did and has him executed for it. So she would end up accepting his help and then killing him once she’s done needing him. A very Littlefinger move.

  106. Well I just saw “The Door”…
    Will definitely watch it again tonight on TV when it airs to support the channel and the show.
    Don’t read the rest as it’s about the new episode and sorry if don’t know if this site allows spoiler tags–

    SPOILERS BELOW:
    I’m just going to say that it feels good to end the episode not on a cliffhanger, but on a rather sad scene as well as a scene that answers a question we’ve been wondering for a long time… I’ll have a different view looking at Hodor and hearing his quote from now on whenever I’ll re-watch the series from Season 1… And we somehow know that Bran’s ability as a Warg and Greenseer that he can somehow affect the past too, which is amazing. It’s the kind of tragedy I’ve been looking for in a long time, especially seeing it happen to someone as innocent as the sweet giant… I’ll need to watch it again later.

  107. Mihnea,

    I was sobbing so much my mother had to calm me down 🙁 Hodor’s story is so so tragic 🙁
    Sorry, I don’t comment as much, I’m mostly a lurker of this website but this episode is compelling me to comment. It was amazingly heartbreaking 🙁

  108. Please people stop talking about spoilers for future episodes, that you know of because of the reddit-leaks (or whatever is the source).

  109. Hounded,

    That, again, would require her to learn what he did, which there’s no real prospect of since she’s going to be spending the season riding around the North, where nobody knows about it.

  110. Labs,

    Welcome to the Wall! Hope you’ll become a active member of the community, from now on!

    My wife asked me, why I was sobbing and I could only say Hodor…

  111. Rhaenys Stark,

    I don’t know if it’s done to everyone… no, it’s done to the priests. That was the part that seemed off to me. Drown him and than keep him there to see if he comes back. They made it seem magical… (they seem to take the more magical route with everything). Even the priests after being drowned are brought back, you know mouth to mouth breathing? :)) I mean, WTF? was Euron basing his entire plan on that priest not keeping him 5 seconds too long under water???

  112. Alexandre Laframboise,

    I think he cant really change the past all the time. It was only, that he could influence Wyllis, because he warged into Hodor in the real time and that made him hear Meera as well somehow.. I mean, sure, he did change something in the past, but that was a veeeeeeeery special situation.. He was more the vehicle that made Wyllis be able to hear Meera.. I think..

  113. HelloThere,

    I don’t think that they will show any backstory to Bloodraven since its not going to affect the events bound to happen in the future

  114. Sean C.,

    Perhaps theres a Northern Lord who is very well informed. I feel like Wyman Manderly would be someone that knows alot of stuff.

  115. Atish Vaze,

    That is simple backstory and worldbuilding, to add a bit of flavour.
    The books have ample time to do that, the show doesn’t.

    We can’t waste time on background characters past.

  116. Can I just say something.

    I did not cry during the Red Wedding. I did not cry when Ned Stark died or when any of the Direwolves died. I have never cried in a Game of Thrones episode.

    But I cried in this one.

  117. Mihnea,

    And Euron would agree to that?? If he doesn’t come back than he’s better off dead?? Well done than in making the ironborn even simpler than in the books. Didn’t think that was possible 😛

    And if he dies than what?? Who’s king? :)) Yara already ran with all the fleet (great preparation from Euron’s part on that as well)

  118. I think Bran has already affected the past. One of that instance is Hodor. We will come to know if he has done something else too

  119. How did Meera’s voice go through Bran and into Wyllis?

    That part didn’t make sense tbh

  120. Vlad,

    To prove how strong he is, it’s probally done to all the new kings.
    Ok, let’s stop.

    We won’t agree, on this. We clearly view stories in general, very different, not only this one.

  121. I hope Jorah’s aunt at Bear Island makes an appearance in armor. That would be awesome. I’m surprised the Knights of the Vale are at Mote Caleyn since Ramsay actually drove the invaders out of there. I’m guessing like in the books Jon will gather those various small houses and groups in the North to join his ranks like what happened during the pink wax letter shenanigans.
    Am I the only one who didn’t like Sansa trusting LF’s remarks about uncle BlackFish? Does she know for a fact that anything is happening at River Run? Seemed like some of the old ignorant Sansa emerging. I don’t know if we’re getting a Sansa who is acting with a false sense of superiority and is going to fail hard soon or one who is going to end up all LF style with the secret bs plots.

    Still waiting for the Tyrell army to hit Kings Landing and deal with the Sparrow. I’m guessing Brienne is off to be captured on the way to River Run by a certain pissed off zombie.

  122. ghost of winterfell,

    I hope so too. The way I see it is that LF will come out of this looking like a hero for helping Jon and I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets Sansa to agree to marry him. The only thing that would throw a wrench in his plans is the Northern houses supporting Jon as heir/lord/KITN over Sansa, and her agreeing to it without letting sibling rivalry get in the way. I think LF expects to be warden and Lord of Winterfell via marriage to Sansa, so that would ruin his plans.

    Can you imagine what will happen if Bran rides in with the R+L=J reveal and LF is there to find out? LF is the scariest and most dangerous character imo.

  123. Atish Vaze:
    I think Bran has already affected the past. One of that instance is Hodor. We will come to know if he has done something else too

    Yes, I think this has a big implication moving forward. I wonder what else he’s done?????

  124. I would’ve loved to have one of the CoTF coming along with Bran and Meera, they just look so beautiful!

    By the way, the stones around the tree of the three-eyed-raven are aligned the same as the horse heads the WW’s placed in season 3
    http://3g28wn33sno63ljjq514qr87.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/HorseCorpses.jpg|

    Loved Jorah and Dany! I’m afraid we might not see Jorah again this season.

    Kind of dissapointed with Arya but I’m sure it all pays off

    The Greyjoy part was bad. The new Greyjoy leader just had his entire fleet stolen, and people still want him as their leader? The scene felt rushed to me, although I did like the drowning ritual.

  125. Mihnea:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    I think it was a figure of speech, not that he truly wanted 1000 ships.

    This is the same guy who thinks he’s the storm and the drowned god. He seems very ambitious lol 😛

  126. Guys, Sansa didn’t compare Jon to Ramsey in regards to their likeness. She compared them in regards to house loyalty. She was saying that houses have rallied around a bastard (Ramsey) so it isn’t far fetched for Stark loyal houses to rally around Jon.

  127. RonSleet,

    Ramsay drove the Ironborn out of Moat Cailin and they were probably replaced with Bolton soldiers. LF could just claim he’s allied with the Boltons to get his army garrisoned there.

  128. Surprised by the Hodor scenario. Sad about Summer and hope that Hodor survives. Not sure how I feel about this one. Shame that Bran didn’t go back to TOJ, if he had it might have saved the Night’s King and his horde from overtaking the Children and the cave. Ooh, what happens now!

  129. Atish Vaze,

    Yes it’s a closed loop thing.He can’t change the past in a way that things in the present will change cause it has already happened.He has already done it.But in this case it was bloodraven who brings him there cause he needed hodor to become hodor.It was meant to happen.

  130. Kingsmoot was ok, but I don’t know what will happen next. The Iron Islands plot is much better than Dorne in the show I think.

    But I don’t think that Iran will be the next big villain in the show. I think the biggest role he can get is Cersei’ right hand, or maybe even Dany’s ally if he kills Yara.

    There is nothing magical about him and that was his biggest advantage over Ramsay, Tywin, LF and other villains. I don’t like this decision . But we will see. I’m afraid that he will get Doran’s treatment.

  131. Daegon,

    I felt the same… It’s a pain to bear for how he’s the most innocent character ever introduced so far, whose fate was laid from the start…

  132. mau,

    I doubt it. The casting call mentioned that it was quite a big role.

    That can’t end with 2 scenes. He will most likely attack the Reach/Oldtown.

  133. TormundsBeard,

    I think some people take issue with this because Jon is very sensitive about his bastard status and it’s one of the reasons he was hesitant to go and fight the Boltons last episode. He doesn’t think houses will support him because of his bastard status, whereas Ramsay was at least legitimized and the Boltons were placed in Winterfell by the Crown. It’s like rubbing salt into the wound, I guess.

    I’m sure Sansa means well and I get why she made the comparison, but it’s one of those things that sounds better in your head than when you say them out loud if that makes sense. She also has no military experience and hasn’t dealt with Northern houses, so she’s being a bit idealistic. We’ll have to see if her outlook changes when she deals with them directly.

  134. RawJah:
    Alexandre Laframboise,

    I think he cant really change the past all the time. It was only, that he could influence Wyllis, because he warged into Hodor in the real time and that made him hear Meera as well somehow.. I mean, sure, he did change something in the past, but that was a veeeeeeeery special situation.. He was more the vehicle that made Wyllis be able to hear Meera.. I think..

    Yeah, I don’t think he can do it at will, but he can mess things up accidentally for sure. It’s unfortunate though since that does mean that he has to be careful when experiencing past events through visions.

  135. I can clearly see it now.

    Dany gets the Dothraki, now the Iron fleet.

    And last

    Varys will bring her Dorne.
  136. Mihnea:
    Flayed Potatoes,

    Benjen to the rescue…?

    Benjen involved I think. Whether it is a BenHands/ ColdJen is the real mystery.

    It might be the CotF took him prisoner at the behest of Bloodraven, knowing he would be needed to get Bran back. That’s the best explanation for a living Benjen.

    It’s not a bad explanation for a dead one, too.

  137. Steel_Wind,

    Yeah. I think he’ll be back just because, now will be the best time. He was mentioned last season at the assassination and we got him now, in the flashbacks.

  138. OMG JACK BENDER!!! This guy should direct every episode from now on. I almost had a heart attack. Summer…. Hodor…. 3ER…. Second best episode of the whole series. Almost a Hardhome.

  139. Mihnea,

    Alright, must’ve remembered that wrong

    Agro:
    OMG JACK BENDER!!! This guy should direct every episode from now on. I almost had a heart attack. Summer…. Hodor…. 3ER…. Second best episode of the whole series. Almost a Hardhome.

    I agree, I had high hopes for this man ever since he was announced. 🙂

  140. OMG!!! I saw this thread and couldn’t resist going to look. In tears right now 🙁

    I’ll come back when I’ve got a grip…..

    Wow! Just wow!!!! I don’t seem to have much lucid thought past that. Amazing!! Heartbreaking, dramatic……..bfhhrtjvdrjmkjgfxefnvgrhkllbds…..bleh!!

  141. Mihnea:
    mau,

    That can’t end with 2 scenes. He will most likely attack the Reach/Oldtown.

    I get the impression he wants to go after Yara and Theon. And if they survive, he can’t.

  142. TormundsBeard: R.I.P.Hoddor.

    Yes, but you could see how other people and Jon looked at her when she said she is the real Stark.Awkward, I don’t know.. she was acting weird.

  143. Lionthing,

    Sansa badasses over Littlefinger, and rejects his Knights help. Sends Brienne to Riverrun where her Great Uncle, the Blackfish, has rallied a small force of Tullys. Sansa, Jon, Davos, Brienne, Meli etc all leave together to find support in the North. Sansa makes Jon a cloak like Neds, Hype.

    Ayra gets her ass beat again, then gets a mission, she watches a play as actors play out a slightly bent version of her Father’s death, and then kills the lead actress, completing her mission.

    Bran has a vision of the Children of the Forest creating the Night’s King, and the whites, which they did to fight the first men, which ended up being a mistake.

    King’s Moot. Euron arrives, admits his crime, and rallies the Ironborn. Yara and Theon flee having lost the King’s Moot, stealing the best ships. Euron commands his men to build new ones, so he can go and meet Dany. Hype.

    Dany accepts Jorah’s service again, but he reveals his greyscale, says he’ll end his life before it consumes him, tells her he loves her, and then tries to leave, she commands him to do whatever he can to find a cure.

    In Meereen, Tyrion and Varys meet the high priestess of Rhallor, and she knows quite a lot about Varys’ past, and she goes out to increase their popularity in the city.

    Bran sneaks into a vision, to go back to the scene where the nights king was created, instead he finds it to be Winter, and the army of whites standing there staring at nothing, eventually the Night’s King spots him, grabs him, and Bran’s vision ends, he feels immense pain, and it is revealed that the Night’s King touching him allows him to enter the tree, and that he will be coming for them. The Three-eyed-Raven tells him its time for Bran to become him, and that he isnt ready, and takes him into a vision to show him whatever he can he the time left.

    The big Finale. The Night King arrives at the tree, with his whites, and tries to enter, with Bran still in a vision, the Children try to fend them off as best they can, but are overwhelmed, eventually, Meera’s voice appears inside Brans’ vision, like a voice from the heavens “wake up bran, we need hodor, warg into hodor”. The three-eyed-ravens tells him to follow the command. By this point, in the real world, Hodor is pulling bran on his sledge down a passage to safety, the children do their best to stop the oncoming onslaught of whites. Summer stays to fend them off, diving in and sacrificing herself for their safety (RIP Summer :'( ) – next, still running down the tunnel, Leaf, the Child of the Forest, sacrifices herself with an explosion to kill off the rest.

    Finally, the the end of the Tunnel, Meera and Hodor, along with Bran who has still not woken up have reached a door. Back to the vision, Bran sees Willis, following the command he Wargs through Willis, to Hodor, of course, the same person. Bran sees Hodor doing everything he can to “Hold the door” whilst meera escapes.

    In the vision, Willis falls down, fitting, and repeating the words “Hold the Door”.. and continues to do so, losing his mind, whilst Hodor in real life, Holds the door, and sadly, and dramatically, slowly ripped apart by whites, sacrificing his life for Bran/Meera, and you finally find out why he says Hodor, because all along he was destined to die, holding the door.

    Best episode ever!

  144. I saw some of the scenes, i didnt see the kingsmoot part, Arya part, Dany part, Jon part with Sansa and co planning on what to do, only the Bran scenes, which i wished i saved for tonight to watch in HD. Shame on me!!

  145. Not read all the comments yet but choose to watch this over the stream rather than be spoiled. People at Westeros.org are going to freak as there are a lot of Winds of Winter spoilers in there.

    Giving it a second watch now but it was gripping TV, non-stop just doesn’t let up and I am agreeing with D&D that this is the best season so far.

  146. mau,

    If that is where he truly goes, I think Dany will be the one to kill him.

    Will see though, the casting notice sounded to big, in my opinion, to just kill him now.

  147. Vlad,

    Dont fool yourself and dont call george martin in your defence . Martin is been pretty clear in his statements ( just see wiki) to compare the children oggi the forest to the sidhe also known as the aesi , the mythical elves oggi gaelic world who controlled the good forces of the nature , and their counterpart Are the fomorians also known as the jotun o jotunar , the ice supernatural demigods responsible for the long night and the climate change with the long winter in the ragnarok . The ragnarok ends with a great final clash between the gods heroes and humans on one side and the jotunar on the other ; the world is nearly destroyed , many gods and heroes sacrifice themselves for the victory , there are Earthquakes that submerge a lot of known lands ( explanation for the horn of winter waking the giants from the earth ) . The survivors to the havoc remake the world again , a New world . U wanted a truce a pact with the others ?? Coz They have Noble motives? The ones being til today , busy killing hundreds of thousands of human people Beyond the wall ???.

  148. Alexandre Laframboise: Yeah, I don’t think he can do it at will, but he can mess things up accidentally for sure. It’s unfortunate though since that does mean that he has to be careful when experiencing past events through visions.

    I totally agree. Thanks for understanding what I meant. Wasnt sure if what i wrote made sense 😀

  149. Mihnea,

    I didn’t say that he will die for sure. But if he is going to Meereen he will either be killed or became Dany’s ally, and both are disappointing IMO.

  150. I did not read the article, nor the comments.
    Honestly, I cannot understand why anyone would want to deliberately deprive oneself of the joy to watch the episode without knowing. Really guys, it will air in a few hours. Don’t do this to yourselves.
    Having said that, I am out of here.

  151. littlefinger just activate sansa’s bitch mode….he manipulate her and no she manipulate jon by keeping crusial information and when brienne ask why she lied the scene goes withj sansa giving him a gift…her jon=ramsay speech and her “i am a stark” and the smirk at the end… was weird it make sense but is terrible to hear and to say….jon will obviously trust her but what will happen when he will learn that she deal with littlefinger…behind his back?…..

  152. Mihnea,

    I don’t believe anything he says lmao. He’s the cockroach of Westeros to me.

    ghost of winterfell,

    Jon is morphing into Ned 2.0 in front of our eyes. I hope he doesn’t develop the same…um…. decision-making skills lol.

    LF has like 10 contingency plans in case something goes wrong. It seems like it will be difficult for Sansa to outwit him. I hope she finds a way.

  153. Mihnea,

    I often don’t write anything abut the scenes I like. 😀

    And I think that Kingsmoot was good scene, but Euorn is not someone who seems like an amazing character in the show. He is good, but too ordinary.

    I think this episode was really good, and this season was very good. My favorite season was S4, and E4 and E5 were the weakest episodes of that season, and here they are very strong.

    I can only imagine how good E6-10 will be.

    And I really liked their explanation for Blackfish and Riverrun. It is the best option they had, since they decided to delay that storyline. It will feel natural to the story.

    The worst option was to pretend that he has held that castle since S3.

  154. The ending made me cry, like i never cry during a show ever. The music playing when Hodor was holding the door being held back by the wights and then it ending with Wyllis becoming Hodor, saying “hold the door” into “Hodor” and it ending with no music made me cry :'(

    RIP Summer and Hodor 🙁

    UNCLE BENJEN TO THE RESCUE!!

    It would be so awesome to see if its actually Benjen who saves Meera and Bran, it would ease the pain after what happened at the cave….

  155. ghost of winterfell,

    Perhaps Sansa won’t have to go to LF, but LF will bring the army regardless, showing her that he “truly” cares, winning favour with the Starks again.

    ***
    I don’t get the hate for Sansa. She may have lied to protect either LF, Jon or both. It is too soon to judge her.

  156. mau,

    Good to see you liked the episode overal.
    I agree, the episodes are very strong, much stronger then usual!

    Also agree on the BF, it made sense and even made him look even more badass!

  157. The episode overall was great (RIP Hodor and Summer – Season 6 is definetely no “Time for Wolves” 🙁 ), but there are still some plotholes or at least open questions that bother me:

    – So, the Vale army is “encamped” at Moat Cailin right now. Does this mean the knights of the Vale laid siege to Moat Cailin, which was never taken from the southern side before?! In this case Ramsey would know that they are trying to invade the North, so he will be prepared. And how did Littlefinger manage to get through Moat Cailin unseen? From Runestone to Mole’s Town through enemy territory in only 1 episode, that must be a new record!

    – I get that Sansa is mad at LF and does not want to be dependent on him anymore, but turning down his offer to help her out with the Vale army is just stupid. She herself has noone to fight for her and Jon only “has” 2.000 wildlings, who btw never agreed to fight for him or the Stark cause. So she turns down LF’s offer to invade the North with a large, fresh, unscathed army, but immediately after that sends Brienne to get the Blackfish and his remaining Tully forces (probably just a few hundred men), who are busy with holding Riverrun against the Freys and Lannisters? And LF is supposed to tell the Vale knights “Sorry lads, Sansa does not want our help, let’s go home”? Also, why did she lie to Jon about her meeting with LF? Jon has never met him before and probably never heard anything about him, so why keep their meeting secret?

    – In their strategy meeting Jon and Sansa mention that the largest Northern forces are the Umbers, Karstarks and Manderlys. Sansa says “Fuck the Umbers, they gave Rickon to Ramsay”, but where did she get that information from? She did not know his whereabouts and Ramsay only wrote that he has Rickon, but not that it was the Smalljon who handed him over. Then she wants to ask the Karstarks for help instead, the only Northern house which has a good reason to support the Boltons… and noone even considers talking to the Manderlys, who are the only “big” house, who have not declared for Ramsey yet? But fine, go rally all the small houses instead 😀

    – The scenes with Bran and Bloodraven were confusing and felt a bit rushed. So, the Children of the Forest “made” the White Walkers? And now they are helping Bran and Bloodraven, who are fighting against them? ö.Ö The NK touching Bran in a vision enabled him to locate and enter the cave in the present? Bloodraven – knowing that they are running out of time and that Bran has to leave though he is “not ready” – uses his last opportunity to show Bran something significant for another Winterfell backyard visit?!? And what exactly happened with Hodor? Did Bran warg him while still being in a vision of the past, so that he accidently warged the Past-/Vision-Hodor, too, creating some kind of time paradoxon? Young Wyllis would never have become Hodor if Present-Hodor would not have to “hold the door”… and if Bran was still warging Hodor when he died, isn’t his mind lost now?

    There is also one thing that really annoys me this season: They are (re-)introducing so many great characters only to kill them off in the first or second scene in which they appear, with little or no dialogue or significant actions done before … basically only bringing them back for a good, shocking death scene to keep the body count up: Doran, Trystane, Areo, Roose, Balon, Osha, Khal Moro, Hodor (though his death at least had some significance)… you could put Summer and Shaggydog on the list as well. I guess Rickon and the Blackfish are next :/ I hope they keep the Hound around for a while once he is back.

  158. mau,

    Yup, watching the episode on a sunday evening is much better then at 8 AM on monday morning before going to work..

  159. lord of blogfell,

    I hate in the story that Sansa is manipulating Jon, but I like that she is not just a good and honorable person.

    I thought she would find out about Ned from Brienne (who could know this from Cat), but I was wrong.

  160. YouHoldTheDoor,

    YouHoldTheDoor:
    How did Meera’s voice go through Bran and into Wyllis?

    That part didn’t make sense tbh

    The way I understood that scene is that while Bran is at Winterfell, he can still hear Meera as he is kind of the bridge between the past and the present. When BloodRaven tells him to warg into Wylis, he does. Young Wylis in proxy, can hear Meera since Bran warged into him. As Meera is telling Hodor to hold the door in the present, that is what Wylis hears from the present and says in the past. That is how hold the door became Hodor. If Bran did not warg into Wylis in the past, he would have never became Hodor and it would have ruined the timeline. I’m sorry if my explanation isn’t great!
    Bran will definitely feel a lot of remorse for what he did to Hodor 🙁

  161. That was the saddest death yet…I can’t believe how heartbreaking the death was.

    And common!!!!! Stop killing the dire wolves already.
    Also, who is leaking these episode? I only watched it because I’m in Europe and If I wanted to watch Monday after work as I usually do, I would have to go through another Monday trying not to catch any spoilers (and I work in social media, so can’t avoid it)

  162. mau,

    Me too, me too.

    Curse us for living in this barbaric and uncivilized place that is called Europe!!!
    😛

  163. Antares:
    ghost of winterfell,

    Perhaps Sansa won’t have to go to LF, but LF will bring the army regardless, showing her that he “truly” cares, winning favour with the Starks again.

    ***
    I don’t get the hate for Sansa. She may have lied to protect either LF, Jon or both. It is too soon to judge her.

    I think thats how its going to play out. LF is probalby saving the day in the big battle, and dont really like that:/

  164. Mihnea,

    I know many of you guys hate them but Elio and Linda recently uploaded a video speculating that the CotF was responsible for creating the WW and lost control of them somehow. And I’ve seen it round and about Westeros.org too so yes, there are a lot of book readers who believed this.

  165. Mihnea:
    Daughter of Winter,

    53 minutes…..weirdly because the official runtime is 57 and I doubt the credits are 3 minutes.

    Episode running times for this show always include the opening and closing credits, and are rounded up a minute if the show goes even one second over the preceding minute.

    Just for clarification.

  166. Connor:
    I saw some of the scenes, i didnt see the kingsmoot part, Arya part, Dany part, Jon part with Sansa and co planning on what to do, only the Bran scenes, which i wished i saved for tonight to watch in HD. Shame on me!!

    Same here! I only watched the Sansa/Jon scenes and the Bran scenes and I regret it a little bit 🙁

  167. How did Sansa find out that the Umbers gave Rickon away?

    Did they send the Umbers a raven and they were like “no thanks”????

  168. Mihnea:
    taim,

    I don’t like it……but that is why I like it…

    Does this make sense to you?

    ? I dont like it because it would kind of lessen The starks win over Ramsey if LF comes to the rescue. Sansa just could have taken LFs offer, because they obviously dont have enough men for the battle.
    No LF is kind of the saviour if he comes in without the agreement of Sansa.

  169. The wights were crawling on the damn ceiling of the cave! Spider-Wights, lmao.

    We need more explanation on how the Children of the forest created the White Walkers, the man they turned into a white walker in that vision was the guy who is now playing the Night King. Also, how can they raise the dead? We need more to go with here!!

    ps. the way Bloodraven died was kind of sad to me, when he turns into that black smoke (?) in the vision was pretty cool. The magic in this episode was insane! when the Night King cracked the ice like that was fucking awesome!!

  170. As a book-reader myself, i always had this hunch that the COTF were involved in creating the WW.

  171. TheKingWhoCares: basically only bringing them back for a good, shocking death scene to keep the body count up: Doran, Trystane, Areo, Roose, Balon, Osha, Khal Moro, Hodor (though his death at least had some significance)…

    Areo has been just an extra in the show. Doran and Trystan were not brought back in E1 to be killed off. They appeared in E10 of the last season, you can’t compare them with Osha.

    Osha, yes, just brought back to be killed off. But that is better than to be forgotten.

    Khal Moro wasn’t brought back, he was introduced this season and appeared in 3 episodes, just like Kraznys in S3, so nothing is rushed there.

    Roose’s death was foreshadowed since S5 and he wasn’t brought back, he has appeared in every season since S2. His death openedthe season, just like Joffrey’s in S4, nothing unusual there.

  172. taim,

    I said. I like it…because I feel a bit uncomfortable with the idea.
    And asks if that makes sense. 🙂
    I didn’t mean to be rude or anything!

  173. taim: ?
    No LF is kind of the saviour if he comes in without the agreement of Sansa.

    But I think he will come with Sansa’s agreement.

  174. Geone:
    As a book-reader myself, i always had this hunch that the COTF were involved in creating the WW.

    As book reader as well, I had no idea. I read about the theory literally hours before the leak on Reddit and I was sold. When I actually saw the episode, I was completely mindblown.

  175. mau,

    Hopefully.. But I don’t know, the ”villian” saving our ”heroes” does sound like something GOT would do..

  176. This is was seriously my favoriote episode out of all season. The last 10 minutes were the best thing I have ever seen on televesion. I still have goosebumps, 5 minutes later

  177. Geone,

    I feel like a potential cure for Greyscale is something that the Red God followers might know about. Tyrion and Varys met with the High Priestess in this episode. I can imagine all of this becoming connected by the end of the season. I can imagine Jorah disappearing for a few episodes though before popping up again near the end of the season.

  178. Anyone still hoped that Summer will get through all those Wights in the end ? I’m still gutted that another direwolf died. Hopefully this is just for budget reasons and in the books the direwolves will not bite the dust.

  179. Wasn’t Shireen cured from greyscale ? So a cure is around surely, but given the fact that Shireen was treated by alot of doctors and so on, noone could tell which cure was successful.

  180. Geone,

    I think they just decided, they are to expensive and require to much work into it, and they give to little in return to the over-arching story.

    But Yeah I was gutted, his screams were really painful to hear!

  181. Antares,

    maybe but she lied to the only man she can fully trust right in her life,he will fight for her and maybe die for her knowing that she lied to him, i can see now the sansa from the books…what she said at the briefing are words f full of dagger in the back “jon is a snow and will always will be even if he is written in the paper as a stark” she was also a bitch to davos by saying that that “northeners are loyal and don’t trust outsider” targetting davos jon gave her “ookaaay that was weird look” and finally she lied to jon when it wasn’t necessary jon is completly in the trust in her so she make a mistake

  182. Some thoughts about the Arya scenes..

    Isnt it interesting, that Arya has to kill a Cersei, like in her List. Of course its not THE Cersei. But i think this makes it almost like a prophecy. I think its a test from Jaqen to see if she can stick to her task, especially in those special circumstances. Oh and did Arya know that Sansa had to marry Tyrion? Now she learned that as well.

  183. Is anyone wondering why the WW are no longer working with the COTF but fighting them and willing to kill them?

  184. Sean C.:
    I know at least one person on Westeros.org actually guessed the “hold the door” thing several years ago.Congratulations to them.

    Yeah, well, me too. Only I wasn’t being serious about it and was spitballing dumbass ideas with other fans.

    Hodor meaning “Hold the door” is uncomfortably close to the racist “What has six legs and says Ho De Do?” joke.

  185. Iain Glen actually gave a huge interview and a small part was published two days ago.
    http://webogi.com/t9rwzT

    At the bottom it says that it’s just a small part of the whole thing, which will be published in June. Basically that’s a normal thing and we know from other actors, that the interviews are always divided into small parts before we get the whole thing. Based on this, there will still be some Jorah action later this season.

  186. I believe that Arya ironically will spare the actress that plays Cersei, but she will kill the real Cersei in the not so distant future. Also i think that is the moment when she will decide to leave the FM and the Waif will be chasing her, and Arya will kill her too. She will always be a Stark, and will never forget what her family went through.

  187. Flayed Potatoes,

    Maybe some henchman of the Umbers got wind of the treason, but couldn’t act against his liege lord. So, out of shame, he went to CB and took the black and shared his information.

  188. That was hard to watch … the last part. I cried like a baby. I was surprisingly sad about the 3ER (Max Von Sydow’s fault) … then Summer broke my heart (Why do they have to kill all the direwolves … and listened Summer, awful) … but, then … the Hodor part … the combination of present and past … young Hodor… I cried so much.
    The Kingsmoot was so amazing … I didn’t expect Euron to tell everyone he paid the Iron price… That was so badass … Masterful scene. I loved it.
    Sansa/Littlefinger was interesting … I knew it was Littlefinger who suggested to look for the Blackfish… OMG, I have a feeling Arya will make an appearance in Winterfell this season. Please!!!!, only Nymeria’s pack of wolves could compensate the loss of both Summer and Shaggydog.

  189. Ser Pounce:
    Is anyone wondering why the WW are no longer working with the COTF but fighting them and willing to kill them?

    I think it’s because they realized that they were more powerful and wanted to become independent from the COTF. When the COTF tried to stop them, they viewed their creator as an enemy. It’s kind of like the WW saying to the COTF that there are “no strings attached” to them anymore.

  190. Did the Children of the Forest intend to have the White Walkers raise the dead? Or did they do it unknowingly? Hmmm, I want more about that. That one scene wasn’t enough on how the White Walkers can do what they do.

  191. Ser Pounce,

    One good reason might be that the WW still have some human conscience in them and they are pissed that the COTF sacrificed them and making them these creatures. I don’t think they are too happy to live their lifes as a WW. Also GRRM stated on numerous occasions that the WW aren’t just mindless killing machines, hopefully this will be explored more in the future episodes and in the books too.

  192. These United States’s presidents yo…Bush did 9/11 and Obama did leak Game of Thrones episodes.

  193. RBloodworth,

    I understand how you feel, but no one has sung just yet. There are 2 more seasons to go. Look, they were created by CofT, but that was thousands of years ago, and from man. So, what have they been doing for thousands of years? clearly, they are organized and at least a little thoughtful (not in the Hallmark way). They have not been out to destruct for all this time, so they must be content somewhere doing something. And for some reason they have been called back to deal with something. So, they MUST be more interesting than just being WMDs, regardless of how they came to be.

    And, now it seems there are no more CofT, so man and anti-man will still have to come to terms somehow. Battle? sure. absolutely. But, also, there is still room for something more. I could be wishful thinking. That happens.

    Speaking of battle, after the emotional turmoil of the episode, I do not see many people mentioning yet that we once again got a very clear shot of how they deal with fire. Thus, we got a pretty good idea of the physical power struggle to come.

    The WW can walk right through the fire and put it out. The wights cannot. But, once the WW put out the fire, the wights are a go. This is interesting in terms of how Danny’s fire thing and the dragons will play into the wars to come.

    also, the fuckety fuck fuck time travel paradox. I’m not going in on that. I refuse to get sucked into it again. nope. This explains so much. Why GRRM was watching LOST with such interest, why he said “i do not want to shit the bed like LOST,” why Bender directed. Just gonna leave that there and walk away.

    The acting and emotion of this episode was bar none. each scene was gorgeous.

    The tin foil will be grade A starting tonight. tehe.

  194. Antares,

    I think that it is more likely that Sansa knew from Theon that Rickon went to the Umbers and when she read the letter she assumed that the Umbers delivered Rickon to Ramsay. It’s a big stretch too …

    Another theory might be that the GNC it is in effect and Sansa knows about it.

  195. Connor,

    COTF probably didn’t realize what they created until it was too late, kind of like how nuclear weapons were created without knowing what would be the real consequences on our world.

  196. Mihnea,
    I know right? I loved it too! I don’t know if you watched the new Captain America movie but it’s really good! Especially the fighting sequence!

  197. Geone:
    Wasn’t Shireen cured from greyscale ? So a cure is around surely, but given the fact that Shireen was treated by alot of doctors and so on, noone could tell which cure was successful.

    Who knows what the show will say about greyscale? In the books, sometimes, in children it just stops progressing , so in the south they say the child survived . beyond the wall, wildlings say it’s only dormant and will come back – there is no cure.

  198. Izatty,

    That was some usual fire, the Dragons breathe dragonfire, from which Dragonglass is made, which when used against the WW is deadly. The magic from the dragons can hurt the WW (the fire breathen by them).

  199. Geone,

    That seems to be the reason she was given the assignment in the first place. It’s the ultimate test to show if she truly has left behind Arya Stark and is “no one”.

  200. RawJah,

    i think this kill was ordered by cersei, like how qyburn and mountain are told to go kill everyone who talks shit about her. when arya figures that out, she will be out of there. no way she kills for cersei.

  201. Mihnea,

    Believe me you are not alone…wow, I’m still reeling. Can’t wait to see it again tonight on HBONOW. It swept me away. Kingsmoot a bit hurried, but still good and overall it was just so amazing. Everytime I think I have a favorite episode another comes along and kicks me. Poor Hodor and Summer….someone here mentioned the wolves are getting slaughtered…I hope it’s not an omen. We are down to Nymeria and Ghost…scary.
    Amazing, sad, blown away, just a few things that sum up how I feel right now.

  202. [Spoiler] why did the bloodraven say that ‘now its time for you to become me’ and take Bran back to winterfell to make Hodor (gulp, gulp, sob], Hodor?

    Can someone please explain the connotations of this? Is Bran the Three-eyed Raven? Is Bran going to become coldhands? Cause you know, the mark on his hands and all??

    And WTF BRAN!

    [\Spoiler]

  203. ” A girl has decided.” Am I the only one thinking that Arya doesn’t want to kill a decent woman and will make a run for it?

  204. Aside from all the craziness happening in westeros, all things seem to be leading to the second siege of Meereen. where Euron arrives and helps fight against the Masters. That would be epic.

    *****STILL WAITING TO SEE DROGON******

  205. Mihnea,

    Yikes. 😐

    And despite that, Sansa didn’t feel any regret for rejecting the Arryn army. Oh boy….we’re in for a crazy ride…

  206. A dark thought crossed my mind … Bear with me.

    So, in the show, it is clearly stated that Bran can change the past to some degree. Let’s say that maybe the guilt he will feel for Hodor will make him stay away from interacting with what already happened (like BR said in the trailers “The past is already written. The ink is dry. We watch, we listen and we remember). But this is too much of a risk for the show/books, what if his life is threatened again or something like that … I guess the only way to be sure that the past won’t be altered is killing Bran off. I fear this could happen at some point in the future … Hopefully i’m wrong.

  207. Geone,

    Well, that would be end-game material, I think the season he is safe.

    He still needs to tell Jon about the TOJ!

  208. Jinx47,

    There are strong hints in the books that fire can cure greyscale although nothing yet has been proved.

  209. Plus, Sansa is like the stupidest girl or is she cleverest? She wants Jon to fight for her, but reminds him that he is a bastard.I hate her,Forget about what happened to her in the past, I just plain don’t like her that she actually led LF to manipulate her, knowing full well all his manipulations and how he uses people. Plus she’s trying to play Jon? Seriously? I mean come on, give the man a break

  210. Read the recap and think that it was like a “driveby” warging, it was an accident?

  211. RawJah,

    I think killing the actress is a test from the Faceless Men to see if she truly is No One.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Arya ends up killing the real Cersei too. Forshadowing!

  212. Lyanna_Targaryen,

    Something like this is my guess.

    Or he did it on purpose, knowing he’ll need Hodor to be just like this and hold the door….This is the sadder option..

  213. Mihnea,

    I hopped on the Northern train in season 1. I’m not leaving it. #FreeTheStarks #SaveTheDirewolves

  214. Mihnea:
    Geone,

    Well, that would be end-game material, I think the season he is safe.

    He still needs to tell Jon about the TOJ!

    I meant after that, after this season, if he makes it in the endgame … I’m not so sure, but alas, i was 80 % sure that Rickon will be the one to inherit Winterfell, and after what happened in this season, that theory is close to breaking point.

  215. Bran is giving me some serious Frodo vibes and I wonder if his fate will be the same as his.

  216. Mihnea,

    He couldn’t know … because he just recently discovered his greensight and so on, when Hodor was a kid, Bran wasn’t even born …

  217. Flayed Potatoes,

    Going by the next two episodes descriptions, it seems that Arya will

    not want to kill the actress and then Jaqen will send the Waif to kill her, and then Arya will kill the Waif and escape Braavos to Westoros and then to the Riverlands, as reported from filming spoilers posted on this site months back.

    We might get Nymeria and her wolfpack this season, and a reunion between Arya and Nymeria! I am excited to see if that happens, it will be a happy moment for Arya. 😀

  218. Mihnea,

    I think bloodraven is the one who did it on purpose.He took bran there cause he knew it was time for hodor to become hodor,cause it was always meant to happen.

  219. I don’t really think she acted as horribly as most of you are saying she did. Sure, she lied to Jon about LF, the Blackfish and the Vale armies. That is bad and will have repercussions later on, I’m sure of it.

    But, well, when she compared him to Ramsay…she was right. Within the Show’s own context, a Bastard who killed his father is ruling the North. Yes, he was made a Bolton, but I really doubt the Lords and Ladies care about that…he’ll always be Roose’s bastard. Jon is also a bastard, that’s pretty clear, but when Sansa was comparing both of them, she was doing it because of the way Northeners believe in power. As soon as Jon shows his strength, many Northern Houses will follow him, the same as many other Houses are following Ramsay, just because of the sheer fear he inspires.

    This is, of course, something that happens on the Show. Kinslaying doesn’t seem much of a problem (the way Euron talks about killing Yara and Theon), the same with bastards. Sansa mentions herself as the Stark because she is, indeed, a Stark. They already have the Stark name on her, they shouldn’t worry about Jon being a bastard.

    Besides, even Brienne calls on Sansa on her lying to Jon, and it’s clear she feels bad about it, just look at her face (by the way, Sophie’s acting this season is superb). She’s got used to lies, that’s all. She realizes it on that very moment. It’s what happens when your “protector” is LF, and your husband Ramsay. You lie to survive.

    But she still makes him the new Stark clothers, as close as the ones Ned wore, and she still acted very nicely to him on that scene. Jon also didn’t seem too hurt about the whole “bastard” stuff. I think some of you are looking the wrong way about her scenes last episode.

  220. BTW, has been watcher for a while, didn’t think I’m capable of commenting with my limited knowledge. Has to comment today
    RIP Hodor. RIP Summer 🙁

  221. Oh man, this episode is going to gut me. Summer 🙁 Hodor 🙁

    I haven’t watched it yet because I don’t want HBO’s lawyers coming after me, but I’m so glad I read the spoilers because if I had to watch the events with Bran and Co unprepared I’d be bigger mess than I am now.

    I did see a screencap of Tormund’s look to Brienne as they leave CB…comedy gold! I ship them, man, I ship ’em hard.

    What’s the screen time breakdown? Sounds like the Starks get the bulk of the time, yeah? Leaving, what, 20 minutes for Dany, Tyrion, and the Kingsmoot?

  222. Also, was Kinvara calling Varys out? “As long as we serve the same queen, you have nothing to worry about.” *Varys looking super worried*

    Maybe Varys is behind the Harpys?

    And, also, doesn’t it suddenly seem like the political GoT is a completely different story then the mythical, fantasy GoT?

  223. Izatty:
    RawJah,

    i think this kill was ordered by cersei, like how qyburn and mountain are told to go kill everyone who talks shit about her. when arya figures that out, she will be out of there. no way she kills for cersei.

    Interesting theory. I’m not sure, if Cersei really gives a shit about what people in Braavos think of her. But could be, nontheless. REally interesting thought.

  224. lord of blogfell:
    littlefinger just activate sansa’s bitch mode….he manipulate her and no she manipulate jon by keepingcrusial information and when brienne ask why she lied the scene goes withj sansa giving him a gift…her jon=ramsay speech and her “i am a stark” and the smirk at the end… was weird it make sense but is terrible to hear and to say….jon will obviously trust her but what will happen when he will learn that she deal with littlefinger…behind his back?…..

    You guys really hate confident women don’t you? First Daenerys now Sansa. I see you.

  225. Geone:
    Izatty,

    That was some usual fire, the Dragons breathe dragonfire, from which Dragonglass is made, which when used against the WW is deadly. The magic from the dragons can hurt the WW (the fire breathen by them).

    But, don’t you think the CofT fire is somewhat magical too? I mean that was a very purposeful scene- exactly about fire. IDK, seemed like they were trying to show something more than just what appears on the surface.

  226. But wasn’t Hodor already a bit slow ? Maybe in the end he would become Hodor no matter what Bran did, they just rushed it a bit.

  227. Can someone please help a girl out? I’m so confused!

    Who warged into Hodor to get him to move and start helping Meera and COTF. I thought it was Bran until I seen that Bran was still in the vision. I thought that for Bran to warg into Hodor that was where his mind had to be – surely he can’t have his mind in two places at once???

    Also what made Hodor have his vision of hold the door? Was Bran warging into Hodor in the vision who then connected to Hodor in the present? Or was Bran not a part of it at all? OR did Bran just make Hodor have a vision?

    I loved the ep but I didn’t have feels at the end because of how confusing I found it

  228. Izatty,

    I think it’s a normal evolution.

    We start, with a preaty much normal world, that resambles our own but slowly, piece by piece we are being given, more and more fantasy elements!
    Slowly the politics seem so pointless, so petty and meaningless in face of the real threat, the real enemy.

    My question is, how would we react, if these horrors were all true?
    In my opinion this is the main theme, not politics and backstabbing.
    How would normal people, react if everything would be true?

  229. Geone,

    Or Hodor always needed to be Hodor, so he can hold the door and Bran surviving…so he can make him Hodor….

    Time-travel is crazy..

  230. Mihnea,

    RawJah: Interesting theory. I’m not sure, if Cersei really gives a shit about what people in Braavos think of her. But could be, nontheless. REally interesting thought.

    Thanks. She straight up told Qyburn, i his lab, use the little birds all over the lands to ferret out anyone who is talking shit about the Lannisters, even beyond KL. Mummers was a major way of disseminating information/propaganda.

  231. On a second thought … it will be too easy for Dany to just ride her dragons over the WW and bathe them in dragonfire and that’s the end of it … The WW surely must have a weapon against Dragons too … Maybe they will be capable of warging them ?

  232. BunBunStark,

    Yeah pretty much.The Kingsmoot is reasonably long,Dany has a short scene and the Tyrion stuff is like seven minutes I think.Mostly North,Arya and Bran.

  233. Geone,

    She has to get there. There is no other way to stop them.

    That doesn’t mean it will be easy or it will have a happy ending. I think all her dragons will die and perhaps even she will die in the final fight.

  234. Geone:
    Ithink that it is more likely that Sansa knew from Theon that Rickon went to the Umbers and when she read the letter she assumed that the Umbers delivered Rickon to Ramsay.

    Theon didn’t know that Rickon went to the Umbers. He had no idea where they went.

  235. Mihnea,

    interesting point. How would we react if there was a threat that could destroy all humanity and the world needed to come together to stop it? hmmmm….don’t think any political machinations have stopped. In fact, they seem to have gotten worse rather than better. Don’t think most average people have stopped to think about “winter.”

  236. mau,

    Yes, I know, not all of them were missing for a season or longer, but my point is that they all contributed little to nothing to the story since their first season 6 appearance.

    – Doran apparantly had no “Fire & Blood masterplan” or no plan at all in the show and really was the weak man/leader that others saw in him, which makes his character somehow pointless. He did not even had good dialogue scenes, which is very disappointing, especially for the book readers.
    – Trystane was placed on a ship with Myrcella’s body last season, heading straight towards an already paranoid Cercei… that seemed like a great build-up for some Mad Queen revenge plot against Dorne and ended up as the most stupid death scene the show has ever done.
    – Show-Areo was a background character, yes, but his only purpose was to protect Doran. And he went down by being stabbed in the back and not even trying to fight back. If he had died after a short fight scene with the Martell guards while trying to defend Doran from Ellaria, it would have been a fitting end for him. Goddamn, he never even used his axe in the series 😀
    – There was indeed a build-up for Ramsay killing Roose, but I would have preferred if they had kept him around for another 2-3 episodes. It would have been interesting to see his reaction to Smalljon handing over Rickon and him trying to rally the other houses against Jon and the wildlings while keeping Ramsey under control. We never really got to see Roose’s strategic skills or his distrust against Ramsey. The show made him way more naive than he is in the books. He should seen have his own death coming from a mile away 😀
    – Balon’s death was long overdue and was okay for me
    – Osha… yes, it made sense to kill her off quickly since she was no longer needed, but she only had one dialogue scene this season. A “farewell” scene with Rickon or some small “Ghost in Winterfell” plot would have been nice, but yes, it was okay.
    – Introducing a whole bunch of new Dothraki characters only to barbeque them all after 2-3 scenes was a bit strange. At least one of the khals/warriors should have survived to lead Dany’s new Dothraki army into battle. I really liked Khal Moro after his appearance in episode 6×01 and thought he would end up supporting Dany, but he became a total asshole in the 6×04 scene.
    – Shaggydog was killed off-screen, Summer only had one short scene this season…
    – Now Hodor is gone, too 🙁 They are really trying to get rid off all the minor characters as quickly as they can. I guess there won’t be many supporting characters making it to the final season.

  237. Ingelheim,

    I love your theory about how she lied because she is so used to it by now. And I totally agree on S. Turner’s acting. 🙂

  238. Sean C.,

    Yep … maybe the GNC is in effect.

    Also, can we brush off the theory that the Others and the Starks are related ?

  239. Dammit, Sansa is being a selfish, manipulative liar. Is she just using Jon to get what she wants and then she will screw him over?

  240. TheHeartTree,

    there is a lot to unpack in that bit. I think Bran did have his mind in two places at once, and he can because of his powers. But for Hodor this was a mind melter.

  241. Oh my god.
    That ending was really sad an unexpected. Bran , your hubris is through the fucking roof! Look what you’ve done! I’m guessing he’ll hate himself for this, big time.
    How in hell will Bran and Meera survive this… 🙁
    That flaming mace dude from the trailer probably plays a part. Benjen? Coldhands?

  242. The funniest part was when everyone left and only Edd remained with like ten guys so he was like I guess I’m Lord Comander lol.And I know most people think he is pretty much tost,but who knows guys he might make it.I have faith haha

  243. Izatty,

    I mean, they seem petty to us, not the characters. Compared to the WW and the threat of the end of world, the Tyrrel/Lannister conflict seems so…pointless, so meaningless, they fight one another, and in the end even if they ”win”, they help only the WW.

    It’s also sad/depressing to see this, everyone is fighting among themselves, weakening themselves, ignorant that death is slowly coming for all of them.

  244. Summer’s death KILLED me – whyyyy did he have to die?! It’s not real, it’s not real, it’s not real…I’m gonna have to keep telling myself this all day…

    As far as Kinvara is concerned – I like that she mentioned Daenerys being the one that is “promised”, much as Melisandre said to Davos about Jon. I wonder if she and the other Red Priests/Priestesses know about Melisandre’s new mission of believing in and supporting Jon as TPWWP, versus Daenerys, and how that divide will affect everything to come.

    Bran’s storyline has really wowed me this season – he wasn’t one of my favorite characters in previous seasons, but seeing just how important and powerful he truly is has totally gotten my attention. I’m surprised that Bloodraven died, but I figured we’d be losing him in some sense soon, since he said that Bran wouldn’t be stuck in the cave forever. Meera is a badass, thank the gods for her. With Bran being marked now, though…it’s definitely going to be a race against time for he and Meera. Uncle Benjen, where areee youuu?…

    Arya’s story is starting to grip me finally…I think we see where it’s heading though. When she mentioned that the actress seemed like a decent person, and had some slight reservations when talking with Jaqen…a girl won’t get a third chance, so I’m excited to see Arya take on the Waif and head back to Westeros.

    All in all, I loved this episode, even though the ending has made a mess of my soul for the day. I’m glad the WW finally made an appearance, and that we learned their origins, even if that did seem a bit…rushed somewhat.

  245. Mihnea,

    i meant, in real life, we act petty too, especially politically, and are very well versed in denial. Just like the people of the realm.

  246. I accidentally saw it on reddit last night-the details, not the actual show-and I’m just so sad about Hodor. His whole life was changed because of his future death. Because no one is allowed to warg into another person-and even worse-to warg into a person in the past while his future self is dying. But BR had to make him do it because it had already been done. If Hodor had been Wylis, he would have been a warrior and joined Ned in the rebellion or left Winterfell. He wouldn’t have been the one tasked with carrying Bran North of the Wall to BR in the first place…and sacrificing himself so Bran could live *sob*
    He’s a hero and I hope Bran never forgets the damage his powers can do.

    Jorah…now as soon as I read this I thought about something. I’ve been rewatching again. Did anyone realize Quaithe only spoke to Jorah in season 2 and then disappeared? And her second and last sighting she was painting protective magic on a guy traveling close to the Doom of Valyria where Jorah got his greyscale?
    Wouldn’t it be cool if she shows up and saves his arm and then gives him some info that will help Dany? I say yes. This is my new dream for Jorah because I don’t want him to disappear.

    Also BENJEN next episode. Seriously they need horses and Meera needs help. Benjen is coming. BTW I’m pretty sure Benjen knows a little something about Lyanna…and his family crypts…just saying.

    Still watching tonight, even though it’s going to break my heart. Hodor needs more than a last call RIP. He needs a memorial statue. *sniffle*

  247. Geone:
    But wasn’t Hodor already a bit slow ? Maybe in the end he would become Hodor no matter what Bran did, they just rushed it a bit.

    Wylis wasn’t slow, that is why they showed Wylis in the flashback in episode 2, to show that Hodor wasn’t slow, that something happened to him that changed him completely. I personally don’t think it was rushed, as they set it up with the episode 2 flashback, that there was more to Hodor’s story. The ending finally shows us what really happened to Hodor, how he came to be and that Bran was ultimately the one that made him this way. It was truly heartbreaking.

  248. OK having read all the comments and having watched the episode my head is buzzing for end game thoughts:
    1) I agree Bran going through the wall with the Nights King mark may bring it down like it did the cave; this sounds like a perfect episode 10 moment.
    2) I think we will see Coldhands save Bran and Meera rather than Benjen.
    3) Sansa is still a bit of an idiot at times, but I generally like her story, it will be interesting how she gets the Knights of the Vale to fight later, I’m guessing she realises it’s the only option.
    4) Euron bringing his fleet to Dany is clearly aligned with the books, I’m assuming she will kill him after arriving in Westeros.
    5) The White Walker origin I am convinced is coming straight from GRRM. The Hodor stuff I would assume is also from GRRM but it may not be.
    6) Dany I am becoming more convinced has to die, this story cannot end with dragons or white walkers still roaming around. I would suggest Jon is the ultimate protagonist and brings balance some how.
    7) We know Bran will still have visions so most likely he tells Jon about his parents i.e. R+L=J and this is coming in the next few episodes once they find a weirwood to rest at. Isn’t there one near the wall?
    8) I think Tyrion is making some mistakes in Meereen even if they are for the right reasons, I think both his recent decisions will come to bite him and the Sons of Harpy/Slavers will rise up only for Dany to run in and ruin the city before setting off for Westeros. I agree she may pull a Stannis and stop persuing the Iron throne in order to meet the white walkers.

  249. Jenny,

    Seeing Edd with so few Night’s Watchmen got me SO nervous! They have so few people and resources…I don’t see them holding down Castle Black when the WW show up…they’ll probably just sweep right on thru with the cold and take Edd and the rest with them.

  250. Mihnea:
    Jenny,

    Jon-”don’t knock it down, while I’m gone”

    It’s going to fall, you just know it!

    OMG, that is something I missed! This is definitely foreshadowing the Wall falling. I think this will be the ending scene of episode 10. That will be freaking awesome!

  251. Kill the boy and let the man be born still hasn’t happened. Jon came back from the dead to be manipulated by some vengeful, selfish chick who contributed to her family’s tragedy in the first place. In the original draft of ASOIAF Martin had Sansa betray her family and die for it. Perhaps it’s what will happen in the show.

  252. Wow! Just wow! Hodor! Hodor! Never again will we read those comments the same way again.

  253. Labs,

    As horribly bad as I felt for Hodor, I also felt terrible for Bran when he realized that he “made” Hodor the way he is. I wonder how that guilt will play out as Bran comes to grips with what has happened…”The past is already written, the ink is dry”…made sense before, but this ending demonstrated it to the fullest.

  254. Mihnea,

    Yeah I know it’s going to fall.GRRM put it there for it to fall otherwise there is no conflict lol.For the longest time I thought it was going to fall at the end of this season,but now I’m changing my mind.I feel like it’s too soon.Maybe sometime next season.And I know this why most people think Edd is toast,but who knows he might survive us yet.I will continue to live in denial till it happens haha

  255. The only thing that comes to my mind after watching this episode is the LOTR-scene in which Aragorn kicks the orc´s helmet…

    …or listening to Simon & Garfunkel´s original Sounds of Silence…

    …or watching Rust & Bone on repeat…

    Actually, I can think about a lot of things, but they´re all pretty sad…

  256. Just to give my 2 cents about Sansa in this Episode:

    She really confused me. NOt only lies she about how she knows about the Blackfish holding Riverrun, but she sneaks off on her own to meet LF. But last EP she and Jon wanted to go everywhere together.

    Then she trusts the info LF gave her, after she kinda humiliated him and seems to not think things through. IF the Blackfish holds Riverrun, how could he have an Army that is able or willing to help the Starks in the North? Since he’s holding RR that will be most likely under siege. Because I dont think the Freys went home, when he won RR back.

    When Davos kinda shuts her off, she looked kinda pissed, because how dare he tells her something about northern houses. Impulsively she starts then talking about the Blackfish and Riverrun and lies about how she knows about it. Maybe because someone could say: Uhm, the source isnt trustworthy enough.

    What I kinda got from these scenes was: She desperately wants to play the game of thrones, but just isnt made for it. Like every other Stark before her. Ned, Robb, and also Jon.

  257. TheHeartTree,

    Bran was “warged” into a green vision when Meera started shouting at him to wake up. He didn’t wake up. Meets starts screaming to him (which we can see that he hears in his Winterfell vision) to warg into Hodor to save her, 3Er & Leaf in the Weir cave from the WW and the wights who’ve breached it. He was looking at YOUNG Hodor in the vision, maybe he got confused as to transferring his consciousness in the plane of existence where his mind was (in past Winterfell) vs where his physical body was (the Weir cave), jumped into young Hodor but IMMEDIATELY jumped out, nevertheless causing the connection and short circuiting poor Wylis’/Hodor’s noggin. Even Wylis’ posturing and movements of his extremities indicate significant brain injury and trauma (med student here).

  258. Jinx47,

    There’s no complete treatment, there’s some things to do to slow the spread but not known 100% treatment, some people get lucky like Princess Shireen and get it stopped.
    But The books are from a POV approach so there might be one in Ashaai by the shadow or somewhere that out of the knowledge of our POVs

  259. I can already see Ramsay killing Ghost first thing during the battle. #RIPSummer #WhereAreYouNymeria

  260. I’m cool with what happened in this episode (though I don’t care for being able to affect the past. That has always been a cheap mechanism for me unless it’s established early in a story). How things happened however left me wanting. The King’s Moot in particular was just silly and rushed. The ending had great visuals though, as usual. But “Hardhome” remains the only time that this show has done much for me when it goes full fantastical action. And yes, the more fantastical aspects of the series feels like a completely different show than what is still the more grounded/political stuff. It’s been a bumpy transition. This is an inspired mess of a show at this point, but it’s perpetually watchable and always great to talk about.

  261. TheKingWhoCares:
    mau,

    – Doran apparantly had no “Fire & Blood masterplan” or no plan at all in the show and really was the weak man/leader that others saw in him, which makes his character somehow pointless. He did not even had good dialogue scenes, which is very disappointing, especially for the book readers.

    Well, he is pointless if you compare him with his book version, but in the show he was a wise ruler, who has done everything in his power to prevent the war. He didn’t have so many scenes, so I don’t think that from the show’s perspective he needs some bigger purpose.

    Is Euron pointless in the show even without his connection with magic?

    – Trystane was placed on a ship with Myrcella’s body last season, heading straight towards an already paranoid Cercei… that seemed like a great build-up for some Mad Queen revenge plot against Dorne and ended up as the most stupid death scene the show has ever done.

    He could have been killed by Cersei, there is nothing great in that. Trystane is not an interesting character and wasting time on him, when you have so much better charactera in KL would be pointless IMO. His death was rushed, but I don’t think that the show lost anything by it and I don’t think that it was done just to shock people.

    – Show-Areo was a background character, yes, but his only purpose was to protect Doran. And he went down by being stabbed in the back and not even trying to fight back. If he had died after a short fight scene with the Martell guards while trying to defend Doran from Ellaria, it would have been a fitting end for him. Goddamn, he never even used his axe in the series

    Why we need a fitting end for an extra?

    – There was indeed a build-up for Ramsay killing Roose, but I would have preferred if they had kept him around for another 2-3 episodes. It would have been interesting to see his reaction to Smalljon handing over Rickon and him trying to rally the other houses against Jon and the wildlings while keeping Ramsey under control. We never really got to see Roose’s strategic skills or his distrust against Ramsey. The show made him way more naive than he is in the books.

    Ramsay was under his control for more that 2 seasons. More than 3 if you count S3. So it was time to see how it looks when Ramsay is not under somebody’s control. If they kept Roose until E5, Ramsay would have had only one or two episodes to rule the North, and every alliance would be formed by Roose, not him.

    We saw how Roose ruled in the North, now it is time to see Ramsay.

    And I really can’t imagine scenario in which Roose would be killed by Ramsay and then some fans would not claim that it was too naive. I’m really interested in how GRRM will write his death.

    – Introducing a whole bunch of new Dothraki characters only to barbeque them all after 2-3 scenes was a bit strange.

    But that was something that the show has been doing with Dany’s antagonists since S2

  262. Ingelheim,

    I think she makes them to make sure he won’t think against her. I’m just not liking her somehow ( probably my instinct) I really hope, I really really do that she doesn’t end up betraying Jon. 🙁

  263. I will go Jojen mode now and predict the future :

    There will be alot of threads on westeros.org trying to explain what happened with Bran and Hodor.

  264. I don’t understand why everyone’s jumping on the Sansa will manipulate and eventually double cross Jon once she gets what she wants band wagon?? She wants her home and her family back – the family of which Jon is very much a part of, if she wanted power or to rule she could have very easily taken LF up on his offer of the Vale army and told Jon to go jump. She could have not told anyone about the Tully army at all and sent Brienne on a mission to gain their support secretly – yes she lied about where she obtained the info but I don’t think she did it for nefarious reasons. The way I understood the admittedly awkward Ramsay vs Jon speech she gave was that Ramsay holds the north when he’s essentially a Snow so it’s not a great leap to believe the north will follow Jon – especially since she carries the Stark name and she declares him as the rightful ruler.

  265. So we’re halfway through the season and we’ve had one scene with Rhaegal/Viserion and no Drogon. What’s the point of doubling their size if you can’t afford to put them on screen?

  266. Does anyone think that Benjen will save Bran and Meera and then Meera will lead Bran to where her father resides ? (the Neck)

  267. Icekhione,

    I don’t think that’s right. I think Sansa is being very protective of herself. She trusts Jon, but not 100%. She cannot possibly come out of what she went through 100% sane. She is worried about being no.2, the woman. This has never worked out for her. So, now, she is looking out for herself first and revenge second. She is not out to get Jon though. But she is being careful.

  268. Jonsnowed,

    Yes, there’s a weirwood near the Wall where Jon said his vows. There are probably others in the North as well.

  269. Wonderful farewell for our dear Hodor. Oof. Will really Kristian. And Max.

    I don’t quite know what’s up with the offing of the direwolves this season, but it’s making it seem like an afterthought which annoys me. CGI is expensive. Well, shell out then. Summer deserved a better fight.

    Also deflated about the creation of the White Walkers, I thought t would be a bit more fantastical than that. Not sorry to see the CotF go, but some very good scenes in the cave.

    Meera spearing that Walker! Fantastic. Jorah and Dany – beautiful, my dear Iain Glen again proving why they keep him around. 😉 He will be back. I’m pretty much expecting a Victarion cure at this point.

    Brienne calling our Sansa’s lie – good on ya girl! I get Sansa’s anger. But the realization and begging for the army that will happen later on is inevitable, there goes that little moment of gratification for her.

    The back story of the FM – nice. I will miss Jaqen so damn much when Arya inevitably leaves. Ok, I’ll miss Tom Wlaschiha more. 🙂

    Pretty decent episode. I haven’t cried for a long time – I did with this one.

  270. Euron was completely unconvincing. Not the script. I’m sorry but the actor was totally lacking and that made a believable scene rather lame. He has no edge, no dark side and was miscast imo.

  271. Lady_Vicious1984,

    Oh yeah the watch is done.The White Walkers are gonna run through them.I just hope Edd gets a horse and runs south,but let’s be honest he’ll probably die.

  272. Lady_Vicious1984:
    Labs,

    As horribly bad as I felt for Hodor, I also felt terrible for Bran when he realized that he “made” Hodor the way he is. I wonder how that guilt will play out as Bran comes to grips with what has happened…”The past is already written, the ink is dry”…made sense before, but this ending demonstrated it to the fullest.

    I know, same here! I feel absolutely terrible for Bran because he finally knows that he made Hodor the way he is and he knew that if he didn’t, they would essentially die. It’s so sad 🙁
    I can’t wait to see how it will affect Bran going forward and if he will have more visions of the past.

  273. Izatty:
    Icekhione,

    I don’t think that’s right. I think Sansa is being very protective of herself. She trusts Jon, but not 100%. She cannot possibly come out of what she went through 100% sane. She is worried about being no.2, the woman. This has never worked out for her. So, now, she is looking out for herself first and revenge second. She is not out to get Jon though. But she is being careful.

    That’s exactly how I saw it too.

  274. Halfman,

    I thought he was great.

    But, to be honest I did want a more ”normal” Euron instead of the crazy guy with eye-patches and blue lips…

    But if you wanted the guy from the books, I get it why you are dissapointed.

  275. I also have a question … When Bran decided to enter the Weirwood link and stumbled upon the NK, Bloodraven was sleeping ? Or was he in the vision too ? It felt like BR was already in that vision trying to see what WW are doing or something like that, when Bran touched that branch it took him where BR already was … i saw it like this, i really thought at some point that BR was warging the NK, because he touched Bran the same way BR touched him in the first vision when he said “enough, time to go back”. Well that was shattered when the NK slayed BR, when i saw all of them around 3ER i thought “Shit, they might be connected with him!” :))))

  276. Labs,

    I was like, summerrrr runn!!! And Hodor my God!!! I usually re watch, but couldn’t do! I can’t see Hodor getting ripped off. He is a hero, about whom no songs will be written 🙁

  277. Geone,

    I think Bran, got a bit bored and wanted to see more of the WW, but instead he got were the NK was.

    Or the NK made him appear there…

  278. I hated hearing Summer dying. So sad 🙁 Ghost and Nymeria better live until the end!!!!

    Meera should have yelled at Summer more than she did, maybe Summer would have followed them, I wanted Summer to live so bad 🙁

  279. Halfman:
    Euron was completely unconvincing. Not the script. I’m sorry but the actor was totally lacking and that made a believable scene rather lame. He has no edge, no dark side and was miscast imo.

    WHUUUUTT? how DARE you? lol. I have to completely disagree. All I thought the whole time is the scene is cheesy as fuck, thank god for Pilou for saving it. He is incredibly gifted and fun to watch. IDK, Borgen fan though.

  280. I also like the parallel between Arya’s story and Bran’s, they are both in training to learn new abilities, but both will be forced to end their training early and continue on their own.

  281. Halfman,

    Well, u just hope you are right!!! I would love it. I just don’t want Jon to be betrayed once more. 🙁 may be I’m protective of him 🙂

  282. Pigeon,

    I think the WW being created by CotF is perfectly analogous to all of the trinkets and machines of war that we humans build in an effort to keep ourselves safe. It only works when the machines of war stay in our control; but they never do as, history has taught us.

  283. Mihnea:
    Halfman,

    I thought he was great.

    But, to be honest I did want a more ”normal” Euron instead of the crazy guy with eye-patches and blue lips…

    But if you wanted the guy from the books, I get it why you are dissapointed.

    He just comes off like another basic, power hungry arse-hat, which this show hardly needs more of. There doesn’t seem to be anything unique about him at all. I blame the writing more than anything. We’ve seen him for two scenes and in both he’s just randomly come in and given speeches.

  284. I just rewatched the episode. Does anyone else think Jon has a funny look on his face as he watches Sansa talk about Northern loyalties and that she will rally them as the Stark. It’s as if he starts wondering at that moment, what is she thinking. I only felt this on re watch. Am I reading too much?

    And no, despite some hints about possible rivalry in this episode, Sansa will never betray Jon. That’s not happening, imo.

  285. John Johnston,

    That’s what I like at him.

    As I said, if you wanted book Euron, I understand why you are disapointed, I don’t share them but I do understand.

    To me he is quiet a nice character, from the 2 scenes we got.

  286. Absolutely amazing episode. The ending was terrifying and gut-wrenching. RIP Summer, Hodor. Finding out how the White Walkers were created…wow. It really does feel like we are heading full steam towards the end, which is exciting and sad. As far as Sansa goes, to me, it’s obvious that she wants absolutely nothing to do with Littlefinger, and if she mentions that the Vale has offered their men, they will have no choice but to accept their offer because they need the men. It was so nice to see Jon finally riding out of Castle Black.

    This season is my favorite so far, hands down.

  287. I’m going to wait until it airs tonight to watch it. Three questions if you will…

    How was it overall, was Bran’s vision epic, and how was Euron?

  288. Wow! The best episode so far. And the fact there was no boring King’s Landing or Ramsay scenes made it ever so better.

    It was nice to give Dany an emotional scene like that for once. The “I command yourself to cure yourself” -line was a bit cheesy but I like how it was left out in the open whether he can find a cure or not. I hope this is the last we see of Jorah so his destiny is left in the open. Or that he returns as a stoneman because his love for her kept him following her still.

    The Bran scenes were amazing. We were treated with 2 mysteries being exposed – the birth of the white walkers and Hodor’s past. I really enjoyed Hodor’s backstory. It was really bittersweet and it also established that the outcomes of Bran’s past meddling can be seen in the present. That kills the fan theories where Bran saves Ned etc.

    Mereen was another awesome scene. Not only was it cool to reveal Varys’ past to show viewers, it was also a pleasure to see Varys uncertain of himself. The North scenes were solid plot building but I feel like this part of the story is losing a bit steam since we know exactly where this is heading to. The Ironborn scenes were well made, though my least favourite part. Theon being all confident so soon was a bit forced imo. The best part was to see Yara sail to meet the dragon queen.

  289. Jern Sner:
    Pigeon,

    I think the WW being created by CotF is perfectly analogous to all of the trinkets and machines of war that we humans build in an effort to keep ourselves safe. It only works when the machines of war stay in our control; but they never do as, history has taught us.

    I agree with that. And I think that the …. not ‘normalcy’, but straightforwardness of it was maybe why I felt a little bummed? Anticipating too much, I think. Not everything is fireworks. 🙂

    Theon is looking better. I love Pilou, and the drowning scene was excellent, as was the ‘Dude, where’re my ships?’ moment of realization. Lol. And the whole ‘Well, YEAH I killed Balon, silly!’

  290. I just had a thought that someone may have already posted. But I think we may have just seen the end of summer, and the beginning of winter.

    ICE WOLVES?

  291. Labs,

    Yep exactly – there was nothing that could be done to change that fact, and it’s just a reality that Bran is going to have to come to grips with. Bloodraven gave Bran an emphatic “No” when he asked if he thought he was ready to take over…I’m sure that means that more possible mistakes will be on the way as far as Bran trying to exercise some self-control with his visions. Now that Bran is “marked” by the Night King, it’s going to be a race against time for he and Meera…I just wish they had a direwolf and sweet giant to help them along 🙁

  292. Jack Bauer 24:
    I’m going to wait until it airs tonight to watch it. Three questions if you will…

    How was it overall, was Bran’s vision epic, and how was Euron?

    Well, it depends who you ask. Both were great for me. Bran’s story was more emotionally powerful for the reasons that were already discussed.

  293. Mihnea,

    Hmm, could be. Sansa should have been the same too though.
    Still, I am a but curious about his expression at that time.

  294. TheRealWolf,

    I know right? When Summer decided to attack, I was like NOOOO and hearing him die broke me! There is only two direwolves left and it makes me so sad. I love the direwolves so much 🙁 I will rewatch when it airs here and I know for sure that I will cry as much as I did the first time. Hodor’s story is so tragic, he really did hold the door 🙁
    I only ended up watching the Sansa/Jon scenes and the Bran scenes (Yes, I am biased towards the Starks :P)

  295. Can someone tell me whether old Rickard Stark was played by Sean Bean??? The quality I have seen it in was questionable at best and he wasn’t there for long but he looked hell of a lot like Sean Bean.
    And the ending tore me to pieces, why, oh, why? I cried like a baby… Such an emotional, brilliant episode. I really feel like we could be getting the best season up to date. Also, are we going to see the rest of the ToJ scene now that Bran has left the cave? I most certainly hope so – maybe they are keeping it for the finale or episode 9?

  296. Jenny,

    I agree – Edd is pretty much the only one left in the Night’s Watch that I care about. If he doesn’t make it though, I know he’ll at least go down with a fight if he’s able to. The way Jon told him to not let the Castle fall down though, as he was leaving…bit of foreshadowing maybe?

  297. MakeThemBurn,

    King’s Landing has become boring and Bran’s storyline is the most exciting. What a crazy world.

    I kind of love how Bran has breezed back in in season 6 all like “Yo what’up I got the best storyline now” And everyone else is like “Shiiiiiiiiiii”

  298. Jack Bauer 24:
    I’m going to wait until it airs tonight to watch it. Three questions if you will…

    How was it overall, was Bran’s vision epic, and how was Euron?

    incredibly amazing to watch, both emotionally and visually. Euron seems to be getting mixed reviews, albeit erring on the side of great. i loved him. but, have a soft spot for the actor. Overall A, Vision Epic, Euron very good.

  299. RhaeLin:
    Can someone tell me whether old Rickard Stark was played by Sean Bean??? The quality I have seen it in was questionable at best and he wasn’t there for long but he looked hell of a lot like Sean Bean.

    Definitely NOT.

  300. Jack Bauer 24:
    I’m going to wait until it airs tonight to watch it. Three questions if you will…

    How was it overall, was Bran’s vision epic, and how was Euron?

    Overall it is one of the best episodes ever and in my opinion, the best of the season so far. Euron was great, but quite different from the books (so if you expect blue lips and sheer madness you will be disappointed). Bran’s scenes were amazing and heart-wrenching.

  301. Rhaenys Stark:
    Why do you guys think Sansa lied to Jon?

    I also think it is possible she so far remains in doubt about Jon’s willingness to fight – after mutiny resurrection and all, that is. So just in case he backs off?

    Hope it’s only that, and some unwillingness to speak of Littlefinger.

  302. It’s interesting that my friend & I had a discussion about this episode last night and nailed almost every scene exactly as it played out. D&D are getting extremely predictable. In any event, the execution is key and I thought most of the scenes worked really well.

    The Kingsmoot was… eh. Parts of it worked well but the switching of who people were backing seemed comical… too easy. It makes sense in the book since Euron is likely using magic to turn people to his side. I also thought I’d be more impressed by Euron but he just comes off as the typical villain on VIKINGS.

    Now, the big scene at the end… I’m sure it will play really well with show-only types and people who super love action movies, but it all felt a bit rushed to me. HOWEVER, the final moments were very emotional. And that’s what matters most… that the show makes us care about these people.

    6.05 is an episode that could have been given more time to get to and through, but D&D are apparently rushing to the end because… reasons.

  303. Izatty,

    Yeah I thought Pilou was great. It was more the writing – they didn’t build it up enough – they pretty much just raced to the conclusion that Euron is King now and he wants an alliance with Dany. They’re really racing through the stuff in the subplots like the Iron Islands and Dorne while King’s Landing seems to be stalling (I thought Cersei’s trial would have happened within the first few episodes but we’re still waiting)

  304. Pigeon,

    Hahahaha I actually liked Euron – he’s the kind of crazy where he could be telling you what a great and beautiful person you are and you believe him, even as he’s cutting your eyes out of your skull.

  305. Mihnea,

    I prefer character development over quick speeches. Then again, the Iron Islands stuff I’ve never found that interesting. And the rushed nature of the King’s Moot didn’t help sway me.

  306. Becca,

    I don’t think anyone is saying that, more that she is still messing things up and isn’t yet mature enough.

  307. I don’t see the problem some of you are having with Sansa. Oh she lied to Jon, yes, she did and I agree. Jon doesn’t know LF, what would he do with that info etc. And the Starks are known to be trusting and honorable……that’s why they have suffered so much. Being honest and trusting. She has been around a lot of lying and vicious terrible people. I’m glad she is using what she learnt. Keep her cards close to her chest. And she didn’t have any animosity towards Jon, she was ok sending Brienne away as well as making him that fabulous Ned-like coat.

  308. John Johnston,

    I didn’t thought it was rushed.

    Thought Theon showed great progress and evolution. Euron doesn’t need to show any, he was just introduced as a enemy/foil/villain to the main character.

  309. Sansa: “the North remembers”

    Episode 7 description (correct me if I’m wrong): “The North is reminded.

    Hinting at the close future?

  310. Just realised this was the first episode in a while without Ramsay. And he was not missed.

  311. Lady_Vicious1984:
    Pigeon,

    Hahahaha I actually liked Euron – he’s the kind of crazy where he could be telling you what a great and beautiful person you are and you believe him, even as he’s cutting your eyes out of your skull.

    LOL!

  312. I hope Screen Junkies re-evaluate their position on Bran’s storyline this season. They always call him boring in their season recap videos lol. Us Bran fans are getting a major return on investment <3. I am so curious to see what Bran's state of mind is after this. I wish HBO was Netflix and we'd get all the episodes at once lol.

    Btw, it was such a delightful surprise to see Ned's dad in the flashback. He's just what I imagined from that one scene.

  313. Regarding the Kingsmoot I thought the show did it very well to be fair, not sure how much more people were expecting or felt was needed?

  314. Dessmr,

    Yep I agree – it’s nice to see someone crazy that
    Dessmr,

    I agree. I’m interested in the Ironborn now, which I couldn’t necessarily say before (books and show)…

  315. Hounded:
    Izatty,

    Yeah I thought Pilou was great. It was more the writing– they didn’t build it up enough – they pretty much just raced to the conclusion that Euron is King now and he wants an alliance with Dany. They’re really racing through the stuff in the subplots like the Iron Islands and Dorne while King’s Landing seems to be stalling (I thought Cersei’s trial would have happened within the first few episodes but we’re still waiting)

    I really truly believe that Kings Landing will pay off in a huge, huge way by end of season.

    yes, there is a bit of a rush. but, it’s time to move forward and I do not resent it.

  316. Lady_Vicious1984,

    Yeah I mean forshadowing that it is actually going to fall.It was so sad it reminded me when he told grenn to hold the gate,even though this time there is nothing they can do.It has to fall

  317. Bran has got to be in the next episode, he already sat out one episode, which was episode 4. I think next episode is when we get Uncle Benjen and he will talk with Bran and tell him what he was doing after all that time in the far North.

  318. Jonsnowed,

    Oh I didn’t mean here exactly, but on a lot of the other boards I’m definitely seeing a lot of betrayal talk, I just figured here would be a safe place to vent.

  319. So i have dornish red on Bran being the one who woke the white walkers from their slumber.

  320. Labs,

    #heheldthedoor should be a hash tag that should trend in his memory. Summer is a stark, and straightforwardly loyal( that magnificent beast). I’m loyal to starks too, but I am a little bit least loyal to Sansa. Hope she doesn’t do anything stupid like trusting LF and betraying/insulting Jon. I just love Jon too much. A bit brooding hero, but I love him

  321. Rhaenys Stark,

    Littlefinger totally played Sansa though. He told her Jon is only a “half-brother” (made her not tell Jon the whole story) and that Blackfish has retaken his place. What if that last part is not even true and he wants her to cross through Moat Cailin…

  322. Connor:
    Bran has got to be in the next episode, he already sat out one episode, which was episode 4. I think next episode is when we get Uncle Benjen and he will talk with Bran and tell him what he was doing after all that time in the far North.

    He already hasn’t been in two episodes 1 and 4 and we know that young ned is briefly in next episode so I’m pretty sure we’ll see Bran next episode

  323. Was that Sean Bean playing Rickard Stark in that flashback scene at Winterfell? It looked so much like him! Just a quick glimpse in bad quality so hard to tell.

    Amazing episode. Goosebumps & tears.

  324. Jenny,

    Yep I agree…there’s absolutely nothing they can do at all, except for get as far away from the actual Wall as quickly as possible, which just won’t happen for those at Castle Black. I can only imagine the horror of standing on the top of the Wall, looking down at the Night King and his army as they approach and then stop, possibly thinking the Wall is protecting you…then hearing/feeling the Wall beginning to collapse. I imagine that collapse would be felt throughout the entire North and would be one MASSIVE “Oh, fook me” moment once everyone realizes what’s happening. Regardless of whether or not people still don’t believe the WW are back…I’m sure they’d be terrified to hear the Wall falling, and wtf could be causing it to happen. And it’ll probably happen just in time for there to be a Stark back in Winterfell…

  325. Ser Arian the lazy,

    Now I think you’re trolling. Clarke isn’t the best actor in the series, but her emotions were very genuine in the scene with Jorah. Some of her best acting to date.

  326. Mihnea,

    Haha me too. After I watched the episode, I told myself “Well, at least I still have a new 30-second preview to watch tonight”.

  327. Joachim,

    Good point, I was watching Tormund eyeing up Brienne but yeah, don’t recall seeing Ghost there.

    So wait, Sansa turned Ghost into a new cloak for Jon?!….seems dark, even for the new badass Sansa but i’m not ruling it out!! 🙂

    #I’llSeeYourFreyPiesAndRaiseYouAGhostCloak

  328. RawJah,

    Well I think you’re wrong. Because unlike Robb ,Ned and Jon she doesn’t put all her cards on the table. She is sending Brienne to RR, no marching there with her entire contingent. Also she got LF on the defensive. And also revealing her info to Jon, was revealing it to Davos, Tormund etc. People she have no idea who they are. She grew up under liars and manipulates, why wouldn’t she learn and use some things from them. And believe it or not, she doesn’t know Jon all that well either. Its not like a Arya Jon dynamic

  329. I think the other thing this episode established that Bran does not need a wierewood tree to see any visions now.

  330. Beer Island:
    I don’t see the problem some of you are having with Sansa. Oh she lied to Jon, yes, she did and I agree. Jon doesn’t know LF, what would he do with that info etc. And the Starks are known to be trusting and honorable……that’s why they have suffered so much. Being honest and trusting. She has been around a lot of lying and vicious terrible people. I’m glad she is using what she learnt. Keep her cards close to her chest. And she didn’t have any animosity towards Jon, she was ok sending Brienne away as well as making him that fabulous Ned-like coat.

    But she totally trusts LF’s Info about Riverrun. Without knowing if its true, how many men he could possible give away (which makes no sense in a siege). And so on.

  331. Sou,

    I knew I would regret it. I watched it anyway, some parts at least. I regret it.
    But at least I’ll get to enjoy it again tonight on TV, the full of it, with relatives alongside this time~

  332. alwayswinter,

    I guess he just went ahead.Tbh if he doesn’t serve a plot point they are not going to spend money to just show him walking.At this point I’m already praying that he doesn’t get killed in the battle cause we really don’t have a good track record for direwolves #prayforghost

  333. Livewire67,

    Thank you so much for your post! I’ve been reading all the comments trying to piece everything together.

    I’m kind of glad that I read this thread beforehand. I would’ve been inconsolable if I hadn’t.

    I’m very sad about Summer and Hodor :(:(:(:( And most of all no TOJ with the 3ER, I hope Bran is able to look on his own.

    I def. want to see this scene between Sansa/ Littlefinger and Sansa/Jon, everyone seems to be interrupting it in a different way.

  334. Mihnea,

    that’s not true…. The dragons glass is their kryptonite, like a small cut or stabbing and they explode into pieces. But pretty sure you can kill them using other tools too. The problem is their bodies are probably taking incredible damage before they die and also their body is probably a lot more stronger than human body. So normal tools would be too inefficient in a fight…. so with dragonglass all you will need is a smalll cut/stabb and he is dead.

    About fire….. They aren’t immune to fire…. they just bended it so they could pass. They didn’t went through flames or something.

    That being said, I’m afraid that this pretty much confirms that it will be very hard for dragons to kills walkers. I don’t know how exactly their powers work and how powerful they are, but it’s possible that only soldiers can kill them. Though the dragons will come in handy when it comes to destroying the wights hordes.

  335. Mihnea:
    Also, are we still going to ”hodor” in the comments?

    Not sure if I can look the same at that word after today. But the “North has to remember.”

  336. Izatty,

    Funny that you would mention Lost, because I’m starting to get flashbacks to both that show and the two Matrix sequels. In both cases, fans spent years speculating on the various tantalizing philosophical and narrative possibilities that could arise at each story’s conclusion, only to be eventually let down by cliched, effects-heavy endings drenched in religious symbolism that ignored the interesting ideas that were proposed earlier. I really, REALLY hope that this story isn’t all going to end with a noisy White Walkers vs. Dragons battle where all of the survivors live happily ever after, but I have a funny feeling that’s where this is all heading.

    With all that being said, though, the acting in tonight’s episode was pretty first-rate. In particular, if this is indeed the last time that we’ll see Kristian Nairn as Hodor, I want to give that guy a standing ovation. Contrary to popular belief, that was NOT an easy role to play, and it could have easily turned into an ugly stereotype. Not only did he manage to avoid doing that, but he took what was a small tertiary role and turned it into an iconic character (not that this really means anything, but Hodor has inspired just as many- if not more- t-shirts and posters as any other character on this show) with real pathos and shading- all while only saying one line, no less. Bravo, sir.

  337. TheRealwolf:
    Labs,

    #heheldthedoor should be a hash tag that should trend in his memory. Summeris a stark, and straightforwardly loyal( that magnificent beast). I’m loyal to starks too, but I am a little bit least loyal to Sansa. Hope she doesn’t do anything stupid like trusting LF and betraying/insulting Jon. I just love Jon too much. A bit brooding hero, but I love him

    You’re absolutely right. This should be trending on Twitter in his honour. #heheldthedoor
    All the direwolves are Starks in nature, loyal and honourable. Jon is my favourite Stark (he is still a Stark if you subscribe to the R+L=J) so I completely understand you! I love Sansa a lot, she’s my #2 but if she betrays/insults Jon and sides with Littlefinger, I’m done with her. However, I have faith that she won’t betray Jon.
    You know, seeing Bran’s storyline unfolding the way it is makes me so happy because I used to love his scenes since season 1 even though most people thought he was boring. He always intrigued me since he was the closest to the magical aspect of the show. I’m happy that everyone likes his storyline, especially after today’s episode!
    I’m sorry, I keep on writing and writing 😛

  338. Hoyti Von Totiy,

    Sansa is that character that is doomed to always be a victim because she is not capable of making the right decisions at the right times, and not trusting the right people. She is not a victim because she is surrounded by the wrong people, but she is unable to filter all the bullshit and trust her family above all else.

    Sansa just wants Jon to fight for her so she can claim WF for herself. Irony being Jon doesn’t give a shit, he might have dreamed of being heir to WF but he is not Tyrion or Ramsay to fight over castles and titles. Jon has bigger problems with WW marching on the wall, after rickon dies he is going to have to fight an even bigger battle. Sansa can have her precious WF she can be all alone.

    On the other hand Theon has shown more character development, right to rule is deserved not by blood or being the first born but by ability. Theon and Arya are the true sister brother team despite being apart all their lives and now they have support and love each other. Sansa is not capable of such devotion or understanding towards her family.

    The real Stark super team is Jon, Arya, and Bran. Bran is going to help Jon with WW info and warging, Arya is the warrrior with the wolf pack and Jon is the leader. I don’t give a shit about Sansa, if after everything that has happened she still hasn’t learned then she is never going to change. Besides the targ, baratheon, lannisters self destructed because they couldn’t stick together Sansa is just proving that if she can’t be a team player then she is going to doom her family.

  339. Jenny,

    #prayforghost indeed!!

    Seriously people, we’re down to less direwolves than dragons!

    Even if all 6 are destined not to make it to the end, I really hope we get a couple of big scenes for Ghost or (pretty please D&D) Nymeria before we lose them.

  340. Lady_Vicious1984,

    I can’t wait for the episode 6 preview as well as the inside the episode. I can’t wait for the interviews especially from Kristian Nair and Isaac Hempstead Wright.

  341. Was Ghost with Jon when he left CB? If not I hope he’s hiding someplace D&D can’t find him.

  342. Well that was quite sad… Bran basically ruined that kid’s entire life and then he died protecting Bran. Although, I am a bit confused about what exactly happened… not really in a bad way. Did he warg young Hodor in the vision? Was his condition caused by being sort of permanently warged by Bran from that point on, even though Bran was not yet born? Or was it because old Hodor died while being warged through his past self? I get what happened at face value, but when trying to explain it, I get very confused.

  343. @Jinx47,
    @Mihnea,

    I don’t think I’ve teared up after a show, but Hodor…
    Can’t imagine a sadder life..

  344. Doesn’t this mean that Bran can’t actually change the past that we have already witnessed? But elements of the past (that we’ve already see play out (like Hodor), might have been partially created by Bran. So he won’t be actually able to change the world that we live in now, but we might learn that he had more effect on it than we previously thougth.

    Hodor.

  345. RawJah,

    She is not totally trusting it. She is sending Brienne to find out. She can’t just automatically assume he’s lying when she is trying to assemble an army. It wouldn’t be logical. She clearly is not siding with LF or she would have totally been in on having him in the fold with the Vale army immediately. All she did was held back info from Jon and not just Jon, everyone in that meeting room.

  346. Labs,

    Me too – I’m really interested to see what they all have to say/add to the whole thing!

  347. Flayed Potatoes:
    Connor,

    If Bran isn’t in episode 6, we riot!

    wasnt there an article with the actor who plays young ned? He said he is in epsidoe 6 and 10, so therefore at least Bran has to be in those episodes to see young ned.

  348. Mihnea,

    It was my first ever “Hodor”!!

    I always seem to arrive here too late, despite visiting the site several times a day! Glad I got the last “living” Hodor, or something to that effect……errr, someone hold the door, i’ll see myself out.

  349. Connor,

    YEA I KNOW WTF WHY SUMMER I THEY ALREADY FUCKING KILLED SHAGGYDOG THIS SEASON. WHY DO THEY HATE THE NORTH THEY DO THE WORST CRAP TO THEM.

  350. Can any 1 explain to me the last scene how did bran connect with past hodor if he cannot alter the past . How did that young hodor started saying hold the door if that girl was saying hold the door just then..and why did hodor not get up to take bran outside until bran connected to him

  351. Lord Stoneheart,

    Bran warged young Hodor in the vision, it affected grown Hodor. Because grown Hodor died with Meera’s words the last thing he hears ringing in his ear it became a permanent state for young Hodor. That’s how I understood it.

  352. RBloodworth:
    Izatty,

    Funny that you would mention Lost, because I’m starting to get flashbacks to both that show and the two Matrix sequels.In both cases, fans spent years speculating on the various tantalizing philosophical and narrative possibilities that could arise at each story’s conclusion, only to be eventually let down by cliched, effects-heavy endings drenched in religious symbolism that ignored the interesting ideas that were proposed earlier.I really, REALLY hope that this story isn’t all going to end with a noisy White Walkers vs. Dragons battle where all of the survivors live happily ever after, but I have a funny feeling that’s where this is all heading.

    With all that being said, though, the acting in tonight’s episode was pretty first-rate.In particular, if this is indeed the last time that we’ll see Kristian Nairn as Hodor, I want to give that guy a standing ovation.Contrary to popular belief, that was NOT an easy role to play, and it could have easily turned into an ugly stereotype.Not only did he manage to avoid doing that, but he took what was a small tertiary role and turned it into an iconic character (not that this really means anything, but Hodor has inspired just as many- if not more- t-shirts and posters as any other character on this show) with real pathos and shading- all while only saying one line, no less.Bravo, sir.

    I could not possibly AGREE with you more. Today, I am showing signs of LOST PTSD. There is still so much garbage surrounding the “divisive” LOST ending that even after all these years it is hard to have a reasonable critical conversation about it without getting jumped on. Today, I feel that De Ja Vu.

    and yes, the emotional impact, the acting and the character arcs were very well executed and very impactful. But, LOST used to do this too to keep a certain portion of the fandom hoping and connected.

  353. Okay, I haven’t seen it but just read the comments here.

    Based on what we already know, I think that what Sam finds out at the Citadel about destroying the White Walkers might be very valuable later on.

    Also, weren’t the most recent White Walkers created by the Night’s King from Craster’s babies? And why only Craster’s babies? Didn’t Craster have Stark blood? Maybe this will also be significant somehow. There’s still a lot of mystery surrounding this part of the story.

    And what’s up with the direwolves? How come they are so easy to kill?

    Whatever, the Starks and Targaryens seem to be the most significant people in the books and the show.

  354. Mihnea,

    Only the Daenyrys/Jorah ‘I got AIDS, dont touch me, even though I love you, even though I am 90 and you’re 21’ scene.

  355. Izatty,

    Yeah, I was a HUGE LOST fan who felt very let down by the ending. Please let’s not have Game of Thrones end up being all a dream had by Bran, with the ending being a return to his happy family, all together and all alive (because he changed the future). That would be so vomit-inducing I can’t even let myself think about it.

    I swear to the old gods that before I die I will write an epic fantasy book with a great payoff and total twist at the end that nobody saw coming.

  356. I mean I thought the ending was interesting but clearly not content with ruining the Dornish storyline they seem hellbent on ruining the ironborn stuff. Where’s crow’s eye? And logistics aren’t a strong point in this season. Littlefinger literally can get anywhere by himself in a jiffy.

  357. Mirthula</stro

    That was scathing and off base I think. You have no idea what she has in mind. She has seen what blind trust has done to people. I don't see Sansa siding with anyone except Brienne. And what exactly did she do to Jon? Keep some information from him? He doesn't know who LF is, LF is cunning and she is clearly planning something for him. And for u to say Arya is team this or that. How do u know? You have no idea what she will return to do

  358. Also liked the parallel with Hodor, holding the door and Grenn in season 4, holding the gate. Both died loyally serving a larger cause (and serving Starks), most likely knowing they were going to die.

  359. jennyofoldstones:
    Izatty,

    Yeah, I was a HUGE LOST fan who felt very let down by the ending.Please let’s not have Game of Thrones end up being all a dream had by Bran, with the ending being a return to his happy family, all together and all alive (because he changed the future).That would be so vomit-inducing I can’t even let myself think about it.

    I swear to the old gods that before I die I will write an epic fantasy book with a great payoff and total twist at the end that nobody saw coming.

    i’ll be waiting…

  360. Labs,

    Oh!you should write, I would want to read anything about Starks!!! Bran, yes I liked him all along! Particularly in books. Jon is my first favourite too. If you are a Harry Potter fan, I don’t remember where but it is said somewhere ” the best leaders are the ones those who doesn’t seek it, but be a leader anyway when the responsibility is thrust upon them” I just love Jon

  361. Now I am seriously curious how they’re going to handle the Hodor reveal in the different dubbed versions. It’ll be hella stupid in german for sure 😀

  362. Izatty,

    I really don’t like this idea, that there must be a big, shocking twist, that no one saw coming……

    Well it’s just my opinion, but I think if they build the story around the final being a battle, so far they did quite well, in my opinion, I don’t see the problem in it…

    I don’t think there will be a ”happy ever after” ending, in my speculation I believe Dany and her dragons will die and many others perhaps, like Jon and so on..

  363. Beer Island:
    Mirthula</stro


    That was scathing and off base I think. You have no idea what she has in mind. She has seen what blind trust has done to people. I don’t see Sansa siding with anyone except Brienne. And what exactly did she do to Jon? Keep some information from him? He doesn’t know who LF is, LF is cunning and she is clearly planning something for him. And for u to say Arya is team this or that. How do u know? You have no idea what she will return to do

    I couldn’t agree more. Nobody, BUT NOBODY, has even contemplated that Sansa is protecting Jon. She knows LF by now. If he is working her to part ways with Jon, calling him ONLY her “half brother,” then perhaps Sansa sees that LF wants HER as queen of the north so that HE can marry her and take advantage. Maybe it’s not Jon she is fucking with, but LF. If LF believes Sansa is in on his machinations, then she can control him better. She cannot control his gamesmanship if Davos and Turmonde and everyone else takes the information she has and runs with it in ways she KNOWS will not end well. No one is really listening to her in the planning sessions. She actually knows a lot more about the ppl involved in this particular battle then anyone else at the table. Wow. just wow on ditching Sansa so fast. Yes, she is likely out for revenge. But someone who is out for vengence for herself and her family is not about to turn coat on the only family that is actually by her side.

    Sansa SAW her father die BECAUSE OF HIS HONOR. she knows Jon is the same. She is taking control to protect him.

  364. Boy, am I the only one who truly despises that cheap zombie movie crap?

    I never understood the exalted praise of those zombie avalanche scenes in Hardhome, but this was even worse – c’mon guys, this is not Dawn of the Dead, this is Game of Thrones.

    Yes, the White Walkers revive the dead, but do the wights have to move and act B-horror-movie-wise? Crawling on the ceiling like a horde of goblins from LotR? Really?

    I love GoT, I really, really do; and I liked this episode, as I liked Hardhome. But for me this zombie nonsense with its cheap thrills takes away so much of the atmosphere and the full potential surrounding the White Walker storyline.

    *Sigh*

  365. Shana,

    Yes i think it means exactly that it’s a closed loop.But tbh after what happened I don’t think Bran will try to influence anything more.He must be feeling so guilty.

  366. Mihnea:
    Izatty,

    I really don’t like this idea, that there must be a big, shocking twist, that no one saw coming……

    Well it’s just my opinion, but I think if they build the story around the final being a battle, so far they did, in my opinion, I don’t see the problem in it…

    I don’t think there will be a ”happy ever after” ending, in my speculation I believe Dany and her dragons will die and many others perhaps, like Jon and so on..

    because for a show that was supposedly rooted in the realities of war, its is pretty shallow to have a good v evil battle at the end. Same goes for a story that identifies itself as the subverter of tropes, especially in fantasy.

    That said, I am not convinced it will all end on the battle field.

  367. I have a suspicion that Ghost may go next episode. There was an article about the wolf who plays Ghost and it said that Ghost was having some kind of a big moment in ep6 if I remember it correctly. Who else red it? What do you remember?

  368. Izatty,

    That’s why I like this direction…

    It’s a normal world, with, mostly, normal people, and this terror and monsters, the WW, happen to actually be real..
    I think people forget that at core, this is still a fantasy story, and in the end the fantasy elements will outshine the real world politics…etc.

    I never said the ending will be a battle, but I fully think, and honestly expect, there to at least be a huge battle, I would feel robbed if there weren’t none..
    Just my opinion..

  369. Jinx47,

    Not sure about that one, she cuts a white walker down with an ordinary sword a few seconds earlier to that, and that one didn’t shatter

  370. Green Chili:
    Boy, am I the only one who truly despises that cheap zombie movie crap?

    I never understood the exalted praise of those zombie avalanche scenes in Hardhome, but this was even worse – c’mon guys, this is not Dawn of the Dead, this is Game of Thrones.

    Yes, the White Walkers revive the dead, but do the wights have to move and act B-horror-movie-wise? Crawling on the ceiling like a horde of goblins from LotR? Really?

    I love GoT, I really, really do; and I liked this episode, as I liked Hardhome. But for me this zombie nonsense with its cheap thrills takes away so much of the atmosphere and the full potential surrounding the White Walker storyline.

    *Sigh*

    Who cares?

  371. Labs,

    Plus it’s 1:40 Am here in India and I can’t make myself to get a wink.. I am just scrolling down and reading everything. And how can you not write ???

  372. Mihnea:
    Izatty,

    That’s why I like this direction…

    It’s a normal world, with, mostly, normal people, and this terror and monsters, the WW, happen to actually be real..
    I think people forget that at core, this is still a fantasy story, and in the end the fantasy elements will outshine the real world politics…etc.

    I never said the ending will be a battle, but I fully think, and honestly expect, there to at least be a huge battle, I would feel robbed if there weren’t none..
    Just my opinion..

    yes, yes of course. huge battle. no way around it. but, just – hopefully- not that the battle is the resolution. Someone scarifies, WW are defeated, only some live, the end.

  373. mau,

    I called it just this Saturday. Odd that no one really considered this possibility, it’s so obvious and good. And the Battle of Six armies was a couple of armies short at the time.

    What I didn’t expect, was Littlefinger playing Sansa. I was hoping/thinking it’ll be the other way around. That she’ll fake forgiveness to get the Vale army and then reveal to the Vale lords that he killed the Arryns and manipulated the war into existence, and execute him. Looks like the opposite is true. Sansa is too honest to use him for his army and can’t get over his betrayal… AND on top of that she let him get in her head! Baelish is a little prick. Just when you think he’s done… he flips the situation in his favor. Shit.

    Now I wonder how Brienne and Blackfish will get past Moat Cailin. My guess is Littlefinger will have taken it and let them through. The Riverrun army is definitely going to be the grand deus ex machina of the Battle of Winterfell. And I have a feeling the Knights of the Vale will be right beside them. I wonder how Sansa will react to Littlefinger’s return. He’ll probably win her the battle, but will that be enough? And will she understand along the way that her rivalry with Jon was another of his manipulations? Maybe Littlefinger will still meet his end in the finale, as expected.

  374. Well, that was an episode, wasn’t it?

    Wow. To witness the creation of the White Walkers as a weapon for the Children in the war against the First Men was pretty amazing. And then… wow. What a massacre! Summer, the Three-eyed raven, Leaf and, of all people, Hodor! We didn’t really know Leaf and the raven that much, so it was as affecting as it should, but I hoped to see more of Summer before his end. That said, Hodor’s end was suitably epic and tragic. It’s funny that we get Hodor’s origin story and his death exactly in the same moment.

    The thing that surprised me in the kingsmoot is Euron admitting having killed Balon. D&D are obviously doing a thing with overt kinslaying this season, and I hope it pays off. I’m guessing it will, at least with Ramsay and (after three seasons) Walder Frey. I wasn’t surprised about the lack of a dragonhorn… In fact, I was quite glad! What he proposed was much better: an alliance. He supplies the ironborn’s large fleet, Dany supplies the dragons, they get married to seal the pact and together they conquer the Seven Kingdoms. The dragonhorn is superfluous. It was great to see Yara and Theon stand up during the kingsmoot and later escape with Yara’s men and the Iron Fleet’s best men. I didn’t expect them to adapt the “old way” of the ironborn baptism, with the proper drowning. I swear I could see Aeron wish he wasn’t “reborn”, which does make sense.

  375. The way Brienne’s storyline is going, I hope, I HOPE, they introduce LS. Brienne going back to the Riverlands? Book readers know what happens to Brienne at the Trident… Who knows though 🙂

  376. I was the first one to say that the Hodor – hold the door theory was utterly simple and silly in my opinion, but watching it play out, it really messed me up more than any other death on the show.

    Watching young Hodor on the ground, screaming hold the door repeatedly, actually made me tear up, and I never, cry when I watch anything. That was some tough cookie dough.

    Bran pretty much destroyed Hodor’s life and brain, controlled his actions, used him as a mode of transportation, and “killed” him in the end so that he and Meera could escape.

    Hodor lived most of his life knowing how he would die, while being used. I understand that Bran didn’t really know what he was doing, and you could tell how upset he was when he looked at Hodor flopping around in the ground. Still – the trophy for the worst death on AGOT goes to Hodor!

  377. Luka Nieto:
    Well, that was an episode, wasn’t it?

    Wow. To witness the creation of the White Walkers as a weapon for the Children in the war against the First Men was pretty amazing. And then… wow. What a massacre! Summer, the Three-eyed raven, Leaf and, of all people, Hodor! We didn’t really know Leaf and the raven that much, so it was as affecting as it should, but I hoped to see more of Summer before his end. That said, Hodor’s end was suitably epic and tragic. It’s funny that we get Hodor’s origin story and his death exactly in the same moment.

    The thing that surprised me in the kingsmoot is Euron admitting having killed Balon. D&D are obviously doing a thing with overt kinslaying this season, and I hope it pays off. I’m guessing it will, at least with Ramsay and (after three seasons) Walder Frey. I wasn’t surprised about the lack of a dragonhorn… In fact, I was quite glad! What he proposed was much better: an alliance. He supplies the ironborn’s large fleet, Dany supplies the dragons, they get married to seal the pact and together they conquer the Seven Kingdoms. The dragonhorn is superfluous. It was great to see Yara and Theon stand up during the kingsmoot and later escape with Yara’s men and the Iron Fleet’s best men. I didn’t expect them to adapt the “old way” of the ironborn baptism, with the proper drowning. I swear I could see Aeron wish he wasn’t “reborn”, which does make sense.

    what if jorah comes back net season having found the horn in his quest for a cure t greyscale?

  378. Luka Nieto,

    Agreed with everything.
    Was glad there was no dragon horn, always thought it was silly and just a plot device.

    Theon was great, good to see him getting more confident! And I for one liked Euron…

    Aeron’s speech was amazing, just pure awesomeness. One of the best stand-alone scenes in the show, in my opinion.

  379. Green Chili:
    Boy, am I the only one who truly despises that cheap zombie movie crap?

    I never understood the exalted praise of those zombie avalanche scenes in Hardhome, but this was even worse – c’mon guys, this is not Dawn of the Dead, this is Game of Thrones.

    Yes, the White Walkers revive the dead, but do the wights have to move and act B-horror-movie-wise? Crawling on the ceiling like a horde of goblins from LotR? Really?

    I love GoT, I really, really do; and I liked this episode, as I liked Hardhome. But for me this zombie nonsense with its cheap thrills takes away so much of the atmosphere and the full potential surrounding the White Walker storyline.

    *Sigh*

    It seems a bit strange to complain about cheap zombie movie crap being part of the story when the show’s very first scenes featured them.

    And Hardhome was amazing.

  380. Mihnea,

    Yeah there were bunch of people on the forums and youtube who guessed that children of the forest created ww to fight the humans but they could not contro them/ they got out of their control so they set to destroy them later instead.

  381. Amazing episode !

    With Hodor’s death, Bran need a new transportation device. I can’t see just him and Merra traveling alone for long.

    Coldhand ? Benjen ? Someone else ?

  382. TheRealWolf:
    Labs,

    Oh!you should write, I would want to readanything about Starks!!! Bran, yes I liked him all along! Particularly in books. Jon is my first favourite too. If you are a Harry Potter fan, I don’t remember where but it is said somewhere ” the best leaders are the ones those who doesn’t seek it, but be a leader anyway when the responsibility is thrust upon them”I just love Jon

    If I am a Harry Potter fan? I’m like the biggest Potterhead ever! This quote is probably one of my favourite quotes and it really describes Jon’s journey. He never wanted to be a leader but he was put in the position.

  383. Mihnea:
    Izatty,

    Will he also find LSH and Quentyn?

    he isn’t going a quest for lost story lines. lol. just seems like his journey may take him – if he goes on one- to where such a horn might be.

  384. I don’t understand the Boltons strategy for the upcoming battle if I was them I’d form some raiding groups to bleed the wildlings and cut off Jon and Sansa from going to rally the other houses the Umbers are in a specially good position to do this. It makes no sense for the Umbers to retreat from Last Hearth to winterfell and giving Jon all the room to move around. The plot demands it I guess.

  385. Jinx47,

    Stannis’s daughter Shireen had it when she was young and someone managed to stop it from spreading, I guess that means there is some sort of cure yes.

  386. Beer Island,

    I haven’t seen the episode yet but I always wondered why Sansa sent Brienne away. After everything that’s happened to her you’d think she’d be sticking by her side 24/7!!! Especially since it sounds like she doesn’t trust Jon 100%… that might’ve not been the best choice?! Who knows?!

  387. jppoirier24:
    Amazing episode !

    With Hodor’s death, Bran need a new transportation device. I can’t see just him and Merra traveling alone for long.

    Coldhand ? Benjen ? Someone else ?

    Would love to see Benjen come back. If nothing else, it would be amazing to see what he’s been doing for the past 6 seasons.

  388. Izatty,

    Just kidding. 🙂

    I truly have no idea how Jorah’s story will go on… Will we see him again this season?
    Ian Glenn, did drop some hints he may return in S7…so there is that.

  389. I read some of the first comments, everyone’s like “OMG LF has turned Sansa against Jon, she’s lying to him and it’s gonna get worst §§§”

    Can’t people just realize that Sansa, while willing to retake the North, basically turned down the army of the Vale? Of course she lied to Jon, she couldn’t tell him she had refused the help of the Vale (for strictly personal reasons) when they needed it the most…

  390. Flayed Potatoes: CT OF BLOOD AND BIOLOGY. Ramsey has no better claim on

    his ships? Those weren’t his ships. Those were yaras ships and they were taken before euron became king….

  391. I haven’t seen it, but read all the spoilers – will hold off a few more hours for better quality! Sounds exciting and very tragic. 🙁 Plus direwolf death – oh no! I wonder if Summer’s death means that Bran will finally die too? Also, what is Meera’s fate? Also, with both Summer and Hodor dead, will Bran start warging Meera now?

  392. i had a thought and I wonder if anyone else on here would agree:
    The way that Ned was portrayed in the play made it seem like he wanted the iron throne for himself. Obviously without the proper lineage he wouldn’t be able to hold a strong claim to it. But it gave me the feeling that in addition to other reveals/future eventual reveals that the show is heading on a path that Jon will lay claim to the iron throne.

    They’ve already shown us the likelihood that Jon is a descendant of Rhaegar, they’ve hinted this episode that he’s likely going to be legitimized as a true Stark, and we know that they are amassing a large army to fight a Great War. He’s said back in season 5 in the Hardhome episode that the only way they will be able to stop the WW is together, and if all signs point to Daeny making her way to Westeros, turmoil on the iron throne, and the reveal that Jon is a Stark/Targaryen, it could be that this is the likely future for Jon

  393. Sean C.:
    I know at least one person on Westeros.org actually guessed the “hold the door” thing several years ago.Congratulations to them.

    Though as we near the endgame, more and more “fan theories” are going to be proven accurate (and many more disproved).One also sees that in the reactions to the origin of the White Walkers.

    No idea if this was posted here yet but GRRM basically gave it away in 2013

    https://ventrellaquest.com/tag/what-hodor-really-means/

    Post from 2014 but the conversation took place in 2013.

  394. JonSnuSnu,

    This!! And then she tries to make it up to them by telling them of the Blackfish and the Tully’s.

    Can I copy the comment, for the other threads, when they all start yelling she betrayed him? LOL.

  395. I hope Meera makes it to the very end, also, does anyone think that she and Bran will have a “thing” going on?

  396. The North Remembers,

    But she does trust Jon she trusts him to keep her safe she said as much.She just doesn’t want to tell him about littlefinger and there could be so many reasons for that

  397. Labs,

    I’m a potter head too!!! It’s been a long time since I have read those books. So I don’t remember exactly where it was quoted. So we are team #Jon then 🙂 I just wish Ghost doesn’t die though. Crossing fingers

  398. “having way too much grotesque male nudity”

    We don’t have enough male nudity. *Duuh*.

    Don’t care about Wyllis. Don’t see what the “big deal” is about that half-Giant thing. I’ve seen way sadder scenes. Anyways wow, about Bran and White Walker thing. I cried with Daenerys and Jorah. And that poor canine. Most links for viewing the episode have the stupid, damn credit card and payment information required.

  399. tkk:
    RawJah,

    Yeah maybe and the NK even did some weird crap to the ground which made it crack/break? I suppose that’s going to happen to the Wall aswell.

    he did some weird crap to the ground that didn’t do shit. He can’t do anything to the wall. Though I see him/them breaking the gates.

  400. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  401. What was the point of the Direwolves?????????????????
    Damn you Martin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  402. Mihnea,

    And Bran’s Night’s King mark will be the cause. Yikes. Could it happen this season? At the pace things are moving…

  403. TheKingWhoCares,

    And how did Littlefinger manage to get through Moat Cailin unseen?

    The same way Brienne and Pod did … they just went around it … just think if all the armies before that had thought of that … 🙂

  404. dan,

    Ummm probably that thing he did with earth is to make sure the whights enter the cave. The last time I saw them trying to enter the cave, they were all smashed to pieces. So, just my thoughts

  405. RawJah,

    Can someone please explain to me the whole bran being in the past and present whilst warging at the same time?
    And also was that the nights king whp the children stabbed with thr dragon glass?

  406. Jenny,

    Oh, I haven’t seen the ep. yet, I’m just going off of what the earlier comments said. I can’t wait to watch it tonight, I want to see how everything goes down!

  407. Stephen:
    RawJah,

    Can someone please explain to me the whole bran being in the past and present whilst warging at the same time?
    And also was that the nights king whp the children stabbed with thr dragon glass?

    I do not know if this is right, but: 3ER took Bran into the Winterfell vision because he had to, whatever happened, happened. Bran was in the vision, where I think 3ER kept him on purpose. He heard Meera, because as we know, he can interact with visions. He worged into Hodor in the present, leaving himself in the vision in the past. Once he warged into Hodor, young Hodor in the vision could see him. Bran was able to control his mind in two different places. Hodor on the other hand had a meltdown. He experienced his own death while a boy. This means that the person being warged into and the person warging SHARE the visions of each other. One knows what the other knows. So, Bran forced Hodor to experience his own death, while still young, and forced him to experience two different periods of time. But this had to happen because present Hodor is already Hodor. So, ontological paradox.

    this could be all fucking wrong. IDK.

    I have wayyy to much tin foil after this episode.

  408. I take back almost everything I said about Jack Bender. This was a great episode.
    But yeah, it’s funny that HE HAD TO GO BACK!

  409. Sean C.:
    I know at least one person on Westeros.org actually guessed the “hold the door” thing several years ago.Congratulations to them.

    Though as we near the endgame, more and more “fan theories” are going to be proven accurate (and many more disproved).One also sees that in the reactions to the origin of the White Walkers.

    George actually hinted at the “Hold the Door” thing in an interview years ago…

    The Children actually having created the Walkers is a theory that’s been out there for a while too, apparently correct, since I’m assuming D&D got that from George…

    Fantastic episode BTW, the second for me this season that makes it as a Top Ten for the series as a whole…

  410. Hoyti Von Totiy,

    According to the history and lore clips about greyscale there’s also the risk of greyscale appearing on another body part after you cut it.

  411. Mihnea,

    I agree with you. I just remember Robb going around some pass (Golden Tooth?) where a Lannister army awaited because (allegedly) Grey Wind showed him and his army around. “Goat” tracks have been used to bypass strongholds … think Thermopylae … the Persians died to a man on frontal attacks but were show a way around the pass and the rest was history … I believe that even a small force could take Moat Cailin from the north. So the entire army did not have to go that way, just a few hundred at most …

  412. Mihnea,

    BTW, I’m envious that you’ve seen the episode … as it is on in 4 hours here … I’m holding out for HD …

  413. Connor:
    I hope Meera makes it to the very end, also, does anyone think that she and Bran will have a “thing” going on?

    Yup I am shipping it for sure lol

    The millionth of her name:
    Atish Vaze,

    Usually what creates something has the power to destroy it….

    Yeah but then I wonder abt all theses prophecies if just dragon glass itself is enough to defeat Nights King

  414. Darkrobin,

    When you watch the episode.. please take 1 minute to appreciate HD.. Please.

    Only when you don’t have it, do you truly see how much you loved it..

  415. Mihnea:
    Hold The Door,

    I didn’t watched LOST, so I was pleasently suprised by him. Stunning directing.

    Jack Bender pretty much directed all of Lost’s best episodes, with the exception of the pilot, so I wasn’t surprised this was very well directed…

  416. Lady_Vicious1984,

    I believe Wimsey has hypothesised that R’hllor was the voice that spoke back to the magician who cut Varys as a child (or that the magician was a priest of R’hllor)… that would possibly explain the interactions … and given how much Varys hates magic as a result …

  417. Shana:
    Doesn’t this mean that Bran can’t actually change the past that we have already witnessed? But elements of the past (that we’ve already see play out (like Hodor), might have been partially created by Bran. So he won’t be actually able to change the world that we live in now, but we might learn that he had more effect on it than we previously thougth.

    Hodor.

    This was my thought, as well. When Bran called out to Bed at the TOJ and Ned heard him, that’s when I started to believe that Bran may have influenced history. Not that he’s changing things now, but that the changes already existed in the story well before book 1/season 1.

  418. Sansa said “Jon is as much Ned’s son as Ramsay is Roose’s to remind everybody that they still follow Ramsay even though he’s not a legitimate heir. They could also follow Jon. But in any case, if they want to follow someone, who has a Stark name, Sansa has it for sure. She also told them about the army of Tullys, so I don’t think she’s getting an army just for herself, otherwise she wouldn’t have told them. However, I don’t think she fully trusts Jon to take her seriously, that’s why she lied about how she found out. Littlefinger is shady as hell, this time he isn’t lying though, he declared war on the Boltons as well. There’s a great possibility that he’ll try to double-cross them as soon as the battle is over, but they need him right now.

  419. Mihnea,

    Thank you!!! I will 🙂

    BTW, always enjoy your comments … you are very knowledgeable … I may not always agree on some of the details … but I always respect them … and you are almost always right on the important things …

  420. Sarevok:
    Now I am seriously curious how they’re going to handle the Hodor reveal in the differentdubbed versions. It’ll be hella stupid in german for sure ?

    LOL, I always wonder about that. No wonder that Spanish translator went onto those YoutTube spoiler rants… the stress. now it all makes sense.

  421. Darkrobin,

    Thank you!

    Yeah we might not agree on some things but that doesn’t mean we can’t have nice conversations and discuss the show we love!

  422. The North Remembers,

    I don’t think its not she don’t trust Jon. Sending Brienne away shows she trust him, in his intentions. I just feel she realizes people don’t need certain information, and certainly not at the wrong time. She said to Brienne, Jon is not Tormund, or Davos or Mel. I feel she is cooking up something, which will come full circle as her tutorledge under LF. That’s how I interpreted. Doesn’t mean she has become some power hungry evil biach some people are saying she is.

  423. Jinx47,

    Just put the english words and put the translation in “()”…. No idea how these are called in english..

    That’s what most romanian translators do in this kind of situations and puns.

  424. Man. All I can think right now is what it must be like to be GRRM.

    Literally spend decades creating this story, and finally get to the point where you get to share the big reveals with the world…

    Only to sit and watch someone else do it for you. Ouch. Must be heartbreaking.

  425. Mihnea,

    Yo, did you not see Sue call you out specifically, to stay the hell out of this thread? You’re spouting spoilers everywhere. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, can you please find some chill and do as our nice mods are asking?

  426. Mihnea:
    Luka Nieto,

    Agreed with everything.
    Was glad there was no dragon horn, always thought it was silly and just a plot device.

    Theon was great, good to see him getting more confident! And I for one liked Euron…

    Aeron’s speech was amazing, just pure awesomeness. One of the best stand-alone scenes in the show, in my opinion.

    The whole Kingsmoot thing was quite well done, I thought.

    They’ve done a very good job writing the Ironborn scenes this season; better than in past seasons, I think.

  427. I am going to spend likely the next hour reading all of your comments but I am still stunned. My husband and I were just sitting on our couch with tears streaming down our faces, completely mired in shock and disbelief. Virtual hugs to everyone.

    RIP No one, because that play just ensured Arya Stark will never go away
    RIP Summer 🙁 🙁
    RIP Hodor 🙁 🙁 (ugh it just breaks my heart knowing that he knew his whole life how he was going to die. )

  428. I don’t get the whole “OMG! Sansa is being an ass to Jon!”

    Of course she turned down Littlefinger. How was she supposed to trust him after what happened with Rmsay? She has one option otherwise and that is to unite as many Houses of the North as possible with the Tullys.

    As for her bastard comment, it was a bit blunt, but true.

  429. George: The whole Kingsmoot thing was quite well done, I thought.

    They’ve done a very good job writing the Ironborn scenes this season; better than in past seasons, I think.

    Certainly better than the horror which has befallen Dorne.

  430. Geone,

    Arya is one of the three candidates I have for the

    valonqar

    – not my first choice – that would be

    Jamie

    but that may not be the shows takes the plot as there’s been no mention of that prophecy …

  431. This episode shattered my heart like obsidian shatters a WW. Hodor!!?? Scarred for life!!
    @mihnea I cried a River!! The thought of it is heart-ripping. Sweet sweet Wylis/hodor and the horrors. The fact that a silent reader me, came our to vent today after 5 seasons and 5 episodes speaks volumes about how much it affected me. I felt the need to share and reach out. It was too much to take all the suffering silently.

    All those who thinks Bran affects the past i think it’s the other way round. Its either destined or (and this one is a giant) OR.

    THIS IS A RETELLING OF THE EVENTS. As in the mess has already happened and the world is ending and for some reason they(the starks) get a shot at redoing it all over… Go back in time & undo all their mistakes. So maybe this is the redemption mankind needed. “A second chance and there won’t be a third.” I am just rambling & quoting GOT to justify my GOT theories. Oh! I’ll never be the same again.

  432. Chriss,

    That must suck. I guess he can fall back on things happened a different way in the books. I know a lot of people who thinks the show should strictly follow the books and for the most part I agree, but sending Sansa north and taking Fake Arya story is a better plot IMO. And I feel a lot of people will agree when Martin finishes some of these. I’m kinda certain he had a strong feeling the shows would catch up and past the books. Which is a shame because he had plenty of time to finish them from GOT till now.

  433. Laura:
    I am going to spend likely the next hour reading all of your comments but I am still stunned. My husband and I were just sitting on our couch with tears streaming down our faces, completely mired in shock and disbelief. Virtual hugs to everyone.

    RIP No one, because that play just ensured Arya Stark will never go away
    RIP Summer
    RIP Hodor (ugh it just breaks my heart knowing that he knew his whole life how he was going to die. )

    I was thinking though – for the most part, Hodor has always seemed cheerful and playful, with the exception of some breakdowns with storms or threats (like a lot of people would!) So that makes me feel a little better.

  434. Lyanna_Targaryen:
    Mihnea,

    Yo, did you not see Sue call you out specifically, to stay the hell out of this thread? You’re spouting spoilers everywhere. While I appreciate your enthusiasm, can you please find some chill and do as our nice mods are asking?

    I’m confused…isn’t this a spoiler chat thread?

  435. Hold the door :'(

    Really pleased with the change of pace these last two episodes. However, Little Finger getting from the Vale to Mole’s Town in an episode seems to be on the very edge of how much time travelling they can allow.
    We’ll probably see Brienne and Podrick in Riverrun next episode then….

    Hope Arya hears more news from Westeros. It’s nice to see her kept a bit in touch with the other story lines.

    I was really pleased we didn’t see any of Ramsay for an episode. Need a break from that stuff.

  436. Also, the way Jorah backed away from Dany as though to prevent her from getting too close….dawww.

  437. It’s curious, I don’t know how they are going to pull that off the dub actors in my country. “Detén la puerta” doesn’t sound anything like Hodor.

  438. I did not understand the ending!!
    I mean what did they imply by connecting the Hodor of the past with the present?
    Is there an infinite time loop? Is the three eyed raven actually Bran of the future, and the events continue to happen again and again?

  439. El Germán:
    It’s curious, I don’t know how they are going to pull that off the dub actors in my country. “Detén la puerta” doesn’t sound anything like Hodor.

    how do they translate “Hodor” now?

  440. Nymeria better be back now…if the reason for lack of direwolf action was cost of visuals…now they should show Nymeria since second last alive.

    Summer’s death isnt as hard to take as his siblings…cos the others were due to merciless treacherous & oppressive cowards (Cersei, Joffrey/ Freys / Umber) – but Summer voluntarily dies a hero saving his beloved master! Much better way to go.

    Also, now that they tried so hard to make Hodor’s fall so heroic…I hope they capitalise and give us plenty of that storyline (Bran & WW) till the end! Meaning Bran’s being one of the heroes of the world should show frm now on!!

  441. Hounded,

    I think they need a lot of set up for the trial “scene” itself … and if what I’m guessing/people are predicting is true … then the denouncement of the “trial” may start a rapid end game for Cersei that they want to develop over the end of this season and Season 7 and …

  442. I have a hard time believing the LF and Sansa will be the end of Jon so I’m not really worried about her playing games she can have WF probably going to be wrecked by the Walkers soon anyways.

  443. Rei:
    Iain Glen actually gave a huge interview and a small part was published two days ago.
    http://webogi.com/t9rwzT

    Based on this, there will still be some Jorah action later this season.

    I could easily see Jorah passing on his greyscale — deliberately — to Euron so as to ensure he would never marry Daenerys.

    Whether Jorah comes back to GoT or not — and for how long — I think it is likely that he will remain a part of ASoIaF for many years. Indeed, longer than any other actor on the series.

    While it is possible that Roy Dotrice will be able to narrate The Winds of Winter, Iain Glen is clearly at the top of the list to be the narrator for the audio book version of The Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring in the event that Dotrice cannot do them.

    If you have had an opportunity to hear Glen’s reading of GRRM’s recent ASoIaF short stories, that will leave you with few doubts that he is the right man for the job. His voice for Jorah is completely in character; Glen’s other voices are equally as powerful and persuasive. He is a brilliant voice actor.

  444. Even though I kinda spoiled myself before watching I still found this an outstanding… By far one of the best yet.

    Poor Hodor! And Summer! It’ll be interesting to see how Brans feelings of guilt/remorse develop. And also how the hell they’re gonna get away from those wights (even with “Benjens” help).

    The only (and I mean only) issue I had with the episode was Euron. I really wasn’t at all impressed with him, which I think is down to extremely poor writing in that scene particularly. Badly written scripts in other scenes is easier to forgive with characters/actors we’re familiar with (and whom we identify with), but with Euron the poor quality is laid bare. Just as it was with Dorne. I’m probably the only one here who thinks this, but hey.

    Other than that, I’d say a fantastic 11/10! 🙂

  445. Lord Bolton:
    I did not understand the ending!!
    I mean what did they imply by connecting the Hodor of the past with the present?
    Is there an infinite time loop? Is the three eyed raven actually Bran of the future, and the events continue to happen again and again?

    This is a problem. And it’s a book problem too, I’d guess. If GRRM is going to introduce a time loop, it’s even more escalation than introducing resurrection.

    It’s effectively introducing the idea that even if all is going terrible, don’t worry! Because the last chapter can be Bran managing to reset time! Woohoo! I seriously hope that’s not how things are going to go.

  446. Sansa rejected Littlefinger’s help because she knows he cannot be trusted. He gave her to the family who killed her own and knew Ramsey “cuts” people. Seasons ago she told Littlefinger she knew what he wanted: Power.
    There’s no chance he won’t kill the Starks for their power eventually. She’s learned well.
    The bastard comparison was to point out that people follow a bastard lord of Winterfell whom they hate. Following Jon should be easier to swallow as he’s a Stark.
    She also says it because (as Littlefinger pointed out) everyone sees him as half brother. Even if it was said as a double entendre.
    She loves her brother. All she cares about now is the safety of her family, getting her home back and maybe a lil vengeance.
    Ugly sobbing over the last scene. Poor freaking Hodor.

  447. Luka Nieto,

    The dragonhorn is superfluous.

    Perhaps, in the books, that was a device to create dramatic tension .. will the horn work? Could it take a dragon/dragons from Dany? Etc.? In ADWD and that continues until the begining of TWOW … so for over 5 years 🙂 And given the compressed timeline on the show that is superfluous?

    Also, I’ve read the GWWM had stated that there will be another Dance of the Dragons … which, in the books at least, would appear to indicate that one of the dragons is turned at least temporarily … but you probably know more about the veracity of that than me …
  448. Chriss,

    It is his own fault tbh. He originally had a solid three book structure for ASOIAF:
    1 – WOFK (War of Five Kings)
    2 – Dany’s Arrival
    3 – Walker invasion

    A simple three act structure that would have been a great fantasy series. However somewhere along he began to write more and more and suddenly book one split into three. That’s fair enough, he couldn’t fit it all into one book.

    He then said he was going to do a five year time skip which would bring all characters into a place where he could put them in their endgame. He then had to remove that due to narrative reasons (nothing happening for five years with Stannis or in King’s Landing after Tywin’s death would be pretty stupid) so again a fair enough reason.

    Then he releases a book with no Tyrion, Dany or Jon, the three characters most readers were greatly invested in. I am not saying AFFC is bad, there are some good chapters, but overall it felt bloated with not much happening until the end of the book (Brienne and Stoneheart, Cersei and High Sparrow, Jamie and Riverrun). This angered some fans but Martin promised that ADWD would be out a year after AFFC.

    Fast forward to 2011, George releases ADWD, a book that was better than AFFC but still suffered from some issues – mainly being too much bloat and certain characters not really being needed (couldn’t those Jamie or Cersei chapters have gone into AFFC). Again more fans begin to feel angry, and tbh I can’t blame them. It didn’t help that the two battles that book needed to at least feel complete were moved out.

    At the same time HBO releases GOT, and it becomes a smash hit. Now fast forward another five years, D&D are nearing an endgame, in the process revealing many secrets from GRRM’s series. This IMO is George’s fault. It stems back to his failure to contain his story. He describes himself as a gardener – well in a garden sometimes the weeds and dead plants need to be cleared out and planted with new seeds, otherwise the garden becomes a mess. That is what has happened with ASOIAF – instead of finishing certain stories and then starting new ones, George has added more to his already messy garden.The result – the show is spoiling all his secrets and he has no one else to blame but himself. I have no sympathy for him because of that. He has had nearly 20 years to finish this saga, and he hasn’t. That’s on him, not D&D, Bryan Cogman or anyone else. He himself has realised that (see his new years post) but its to little to late for me.

    By the way I should point out this is not directed in particular at you. Your comment just spurred me to get some things off my chest ala GRRM, D&D and the book v show debate (which I think is bloody childish but that ain’t important now).

  449. The only (and I mean only) issue I had with the episode was Euron. I really wasn’t at all impressed with him, which I think is down to extremely poor writing in that scene particularly. Badly written scripts in other scenes is easier to forgive with characters/actors we’re familiar with (and whom we identify with), but with Euron the poor quality is laid bare. Just as it was with Dorne. I’m probably the only one here who thinks this, but hey.

    I kinda agree.
    I liked all the Iron Islands stuff, but Euron’s speech was kinda underwhelming…could have been a lot more epic…and u can tell the actor could have given more…but was like they were tryna give Euron this carefree feeling rather than badass…Yara’s and Theon’s speeches were brill!

  450. Louis:
    I have a hard time believing the LF and Sansa will be the end of Jon so I’m not really worried about her playing games she can have WF probably going to be wrecked by the Walkers soon anyways.

    Wintefell will not be Sansa’s. It seems more likely that it will be Bran’s.

    I had thought Bran would not make it south of the Wall and would ultimately be killed and live out his second life in Drogon.

    While that may still be the arc for Brandon Stark in the novels, I think in the TV series it will be otherwise. Bran is going to make it back to south of the wall. And Brandon Stark IS The Stark. He is the King of Winter, come what may.

  451. Louis,

    And that’s a good ass point. Because she clearly knows about the WW. John said it in the scene talking about the other houses. I feel she is playing LF and just keeping Jon out of the loop. Big wtf moment coming. I just rewatched the episode and she said to LF “if you didn’t know, your a fool, and if you did know you’re my enemy”. Then u can see she asks him, “what you think he did to me?” He histates then starts talking. Then she says, maybe you did know about him afterall or something to that effect. She has clearly ascertain that LF knew about Ramsey.

  452. Jack,

    I understand your point of view. Hell, I’d say your opinion is probably in the majority – at least around here. And if not, it’s certainly a very common point of view.

    I disagree. Maybe it’s because I came to the books late. After Book five had been published, and just after season three finished.

    I ended up loving the later books. I ended up loving book 4 in particular, and being especially fond of Dorne and f’Aegon. I understand that people were led to believe the story would evolve in a particular way, and I understand that GRRM has clearly developed the story on a way he didn’t initially intend, but I love how vast and detailed the world is. I love that it’s more than just a story now, it’s a whole world.

    See, I could read a novel of just the goings on of the people of Westeros. I just really love that kind of stuff. So, you know, I’m just really happy with how things are developing in the books. My only fear is how long it’s going to take him to finish the books.

  453. Izatty,

    Well I still don’t know, but we pronounce Hodor the same way “Jodor” but that’s the thing how do you make “”Detén la puerta” to Jodor.

  454. mau:
    Chriss,

    Maybe so. But the point is that changing the past is now an element of the story. It is now something that is possible within the story.

    It’s like when he introduced resurrection. We all knew Jon wasn’t dead. Now if everything looks like it’s going to end disastrously, we can all rest assured that Bran can just mess with the timeline so all is well!
    I don’t think so. I think that Bran will be afraid to mess with time again after he created Hodor.

  455. Many commenters are taking a dark view of Sansa not telling Jon about the source of the Riverrun information, but I interpreted it as Sansa wanting to avoid bringing Littlefinger into the situation in any form. She makes it very clear in her scene with him that she wants nothing to do with him, so no need to give anyone any ideas about him as a potential ally or resource.

  456. For my fellow Jonsa belivers out there this is an obvious way to make sparks fly between Jon and Sansa, call it rivalry, call it wanting to protect the other because thats all they have left, whatever. This is a move in the part of the directors to explore deeper in to their relationship and how they trully view one another with respect to prior to them leaving Winterfel.

    Remember Jon’s relationship with Ygrett and how it developed, I see a parallel here.

  457. Chriss,

    No it’s a closed time loop everything that can be changed has already happened hence the hodor thing and bloodraven taking him there.Everything that we see in present time won’t change

  458. I thought it was a really good episode by the end but the Kingsmoot left me pretty cold. In the books kin slaying is like the number one no-no for the Iron Islander’s and here’s Euron (with two eyes, why?) just up and admitting he murdered his brother. Also no Victarion or for that matter Aeron who seems to have been replaced by a character who fills the role but isn’t (as far as I can tell) a Greyjoy. I get that stuff gets cut for translation but this was less of a cut and more of a butchering.

    Still though by the end I was back on board, the rest of the scenes were all pretty amazing and there’s no denying that ending was powerful stuff.

  459. Chriss,

    That’s OK. I came to the books after season 3 as well. We have differing opinions on them. Nothing wrong with that. Now I do hope that TWOW proves me wrong and George can tie everything up. I hope for a great TV finale as well, that way we get two great things from this world, instead of one mediocre tv ending and a book ending that never comes

    I will say however had George maybe released some of these extra chapters of other characters such as YG, Dorne or the Iron Islands in another book after the end of the main series, I may have been a bit more forgiving to those parts.

    Anyway this is a nice chat, very respectful. Why can’t more people in this fandom be like this.

  460. Chriss,

    What this scene show us is that whatever Bran can change in the past, it has already happen : “The ink is dry”.

    This is a time paradox. Bran did change at least one thing from the past, but nothing that changed will be something new to us.