Filming for Game of Thrones season 6 will soon begin in Spain once again. This year, Almería will be added to the long list of exotic European locations the show has filmed in.
La Voz de Almería reports that as of yesterday, trucks have arrived at the hamlet of El Chorrillo Sierra Alhamilla and are beginning to unload their contents. Full construction will begin on Monday 17th August. As for shooting at the location – it won’t begin until October 10th, and will end on the 23rd.
The publication also notes that from what their sources can see, a building with a circular base (similar to a temple foundation) may be under construction, but it is impossible to know for certain at this time. Hopefully more information will become apparent in the coming weeks.
This is not the first time the show has used Spain as a filming location. Last year, scenes featuring the Water Gardens of Dorne were shot in the Alcázar of Seville. This year, scenes will also be filmed in other Spanish locations, including the Mesa Roldán (also in Almería), and the Castillo de Zafra in Campillo de Dueñas. For more on this, check out yesterday’s Spanish update post.
Thanks to reader H. Stark for alerting us to this story!
Update!: WotW reader Gravemaster discovered this news report from Spain with footage of the site in progress:
are they filming at the alcazar again this season? furthermore, where will they be filming the king’s landing exteriors?
I spoke to one of the cast recently at an event who told me they were back in seville in October. Seems at odds with the current schedule though
The surrounding of that picture looks like something Dothraki related, probably Vaes Dothrak?
aurane waters,
I imagine that any scenes with Lena Heady won’t be filmed for quite awhile, probably not until the end of filming for the entire season, since she just had baby. And really, who’s left for any Kings Landing exteriors.?
aurane waters,
Yeah I have not seen anything about Dubrovnik shooting- are there even going to be any KL exteriors this season??
Besides Cleganebowl 😉
There will be another location. There was a GOT casting near Tudela in Spain. Next to Bardenas desert. Shooting start in end of september.
Darkstar,
I mean they’ll need to show the sept of baelor and stuff right? idk i’m just really confused about the whole thing. maybe peniscola will be the new kings landing like girona is the new braavos?
Balerion The Cat,
Where was Vaes Dothrak filmed in Season 1? If this is a new location, given the filming is for two weeks, that sounds like a lot of time spent in Vaes Dothrak! Unless it’s an intense action sequence that takes many days to film.
News is certainly coming fast an furious these days. Great to see that they are hard at work on putting out a great season.
The Siege of Meereen? When I started watching Season 5, I was afraid they’re gonna cut it altogether.
Tywin of the Hill,
Since Tyrion is around Meereen at the moment, they might have some kind of action sequence there! Especially with the possibility of Season 8 being stronger now.
Tywin of the Hill,
I’m now sure that we will see battle of Meereen in S6. That will end Dany’s and tyrion’s arc in Essos. It is natural end for them both.
Tywin of the Hill,
But so far there hasn’t been an open conflict between Meereen and Yunkai… True, there was some unrest in Yunkai but (if I remember correctly), Daario and Hizdahr managed to control it in exchange for the reopening of the fighting pits (S5E4)… So, if there’s a Siege of Meereen, it would have to be without Danny and rather late in season 6.
Which cast member? Because Seville suggests more Dorne, which is… extremely disappointing, to say the least.
It was one of the main Dornish cast
kit_hepburn,
The problem with it last season, besides weak writing, was that there was very little screentime for viewers to care for the characters. I’ll be glad if we get more dorne, as long as they improve the writing, wich I’m sure they will.
Kay,
Believe it or not, it was filmed in Northern Ireland, and then a warm filter was put on the footage in post. That was the case for the Dothraki Sea and the entrance to Vaes Dothrak, at least.
You may have missed the article, but 8 seasons is no longer just a possibility.
https://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-will-go-at-least-eight-seasons-says-hbo/
Jaime’s girl,
How do you put emojis in the comments?
Without any MORE Dorne, the show would not make any sense to the vast majority of viewers! 😀 So, of course, they will show us the aftermath, what Doran does, the Sand Snakes, etc.
Cian,
Well, they did have a smaller budget in Season 1! 🙂 They may still film Vaes Dothrak in Ireland, if it’s mostly greenish, and interior shots. Honestly, this Almeria location and the number of days involved, don’t suggest Vaes Dothrak to me.
Hehe… I didn’t miss it. I was just being modest in my expectations. This is why I think a big action sequence in Meereen makes sense, especially with D&D having moved Tyrion there and put him in charge.
aurane waters,
Well, just remember that they frequently film episodes/scenes out of order, so try not to be worried. Lena is definitely coming back, the only question is where she will be filming.
Jaime’s girl,
And hellyeah,
#Cleganebowl #Gethype
Generally I’m not one to point out misspellings, but well done on Pensicola. Well done.
NullaSalusSineStark,
Peniscola is not a typo. 😉
Just a thought King’s Landing scenes for Season 6….
It seems odd to not have any outside scenes or establish shots to me, but maybe they will all be indoors and can be filmed at Paint hall? Maybe Season 6 will not use exterior establishing shots or they could use establishing footage from previous years?
Maybe we just have not heard which of the new locations will fill in for KL next season…. This feels far more probable to me, but with the show exploring a lot of unknown material next season I guess almost anything is possible…
Well fine, as long as a) the Sand Snakes and Ellaria are executed immediately, b) Doran has the most screentime of the Dornish, as Alexander Siddig is the best actor among them, and c) NCW is already gone from there, or gets out of there soon, to where his acting talents can be put to more good use. 🙂
Darquemode,
Yeah, that may be true. Cersei won’t want to step foot outside of the Red Keep as she wasn’t “acquitted”, only bonded out, so to speak.
Her attempt at revenge is going to be a glorious thing to behold.
Darquemode,
They can use Girona for some King’s Landing scenes (alleys, staircases…), use footage from previous seasons for aerial shoots and record indoor scenes in Northern Ireland.
Darkstar,
My thoughts exactly…
I expect the KL scenes to be largely inside the Red Keep with more than a few Small Council scenes etc.
Tywin of the Hill,
That’s one of the new locations I as wondering about… There’s no Varys or LF to wander the alleyways, but maybe some Sparrow scenes outside the walls? I wonder where the High Sparrow scenes were filmed last season. That might be the only somewhat major KL location outside the Red Keep I can think of offhand.
Darquemode,
Hopefully some scenes in the throne room! It wasn’t present in the whole of season five. A whole season of Iron Throne absence!
Someone posted on IMDB that he has a friend in Ireland who works on the GOT sets, and he heard via word-of-mouth that Ian McShane is only going to shoot one scene as The High Priest of R’hllor in Asshai. The scene is going to be between him and Melisandre.
I had heard a rumor that he was going shoot with Carice, so I believe that is true.
Luka Nieto,
Absolutely!
Selina,
Very interesting if true, thanks!
Selina,
The very fact that it was posted on IMDb guarantees it is not true, though. Not only is the GoT board there 100% overrun with trolls (who have been posting fake ‘scoops’ for years, some cleverly made out to be quite genuine) but no one would choose to break actual news there.
aurane waters,
just alcatraz this time round
NullaSalusSineStark,
OMG…just died laughing
Selina,
Oh, I like that story arc.
outdoorcats,
I really do not know if it’s true. I only posted here because it matches with a rumor that I had heard.
aurane waters,
I kid I kid…that’s the water gardens in the show right? I watched I video that said that place was never used for shooting movies/TV shows or anything for that matter. That place is practically a giant shrine from the way they spoke about it. Everything remains perfect. I bring this all up because that all adds up to make one shitty place to try and shoot anything for GoT. Imo they should’ve never used the place for the water gardens to begin with. Or built their own set that looked like the interior of the place so they could have used that to shoot their scenes, and sprinkle in some authentic shots of the place here and there. Imo
Selina,
It would be cool to see Ian and Carice sharing a scene together, but him as a high priest doesn’t seem to match EW’s description of the role, which was small but critical – which implies to me it’s not a role any other actor could have played (like they did with Adewale this year).
Kings Landing is going to burn down this season so they won’t need any exterior shots 🙂
Selina,
Thanks for letting us know, but I don’t believe it. Not only because it comes from IMDB, but also because it makes no sense for the plot. The show doesn’t need The High Priest of R’hllor or Asshai, let alone Melisandre and the The High Priest of R’hllor meeting in Asshai. – The only case where I could see that being true in a way would be for it being a vision, but then the two would not really meet in Asshai.
Technically, it *is* still a typo, since the correct spelling is Peñíscola. Can’t forget the tilde!
Very rarely, actually news appears there, usually as a link to something from Watchers on the Wall. LOL But, yeah, “breaking” news … not happening.
Selina,
Ian McShane in only one scene as The High Priest of R’hllor with Melisandre in Asshai? This doesn’t sound very legit, but the only way it could be true is if Melisandre, amidst grave, grave doubts after her Stannis support and Shireen burning ways, is recalling a scene from her past which explains to the audience why exactly she had gone to Dragonstone, latched onto Stannis, burnt people, saw “visions” in the fire, etc.
I wonder if Melisandre will survive the season?
Tywin of the Hill,
Just type them without the spaces.
😀 = : D
😉 = ; )
🙂 = : )
🙁 = : (
and so on, old school stuff. 😉
On the GOO podcast, one of the guys said they envisioned McShane as the Mad King. Now that would be awesome!
Selina,
Yeah I noticed that post tonight at IMDB. Weird possibility- I’ll check it out, I guess. Lots of strange news this week that needs checking into.
I could see Melisandre bringing Jon with her to the High Priest of R’Hllor, once she figures out he’s AA reborn, or some show equivalent. I mean, he’s not going to stay at the Wall…
I hate it when all people do is smack talk the show but the Dorne issues lie with really just one thing. They turned Ellaria and the SS into cartoon villains. Oberyn’s intro was basically “How to introduce a new character 101” and theirs was the exact opposite. I know that D&D don’t read the internet anymore but I hope to god Cogman or Amanda Peet or someone got in their ears and laid out some of the more rational complaints about Dorne and they aim to fix them this season. If Doran is, as most suspect, a major player in the story, they need to beef up his and Areo’s screen time, too. They’re great characters!
Ever since Lost, I’ve thought major shows should find their most ardent internet fans and pay them to consult as script supervisors. Most adaptations could stand more nerds giving insight. Just a couple fans to read over scripts and give notes on things that may be wrong or don’t make sense in the context of the story.
That would be really distracting if an actor the caliber of McShane was used only for one walk on scene, though not being book reader, I don’t know how important that character is. That said, IMDB is about as reliable as Infowars.
Now that they’re back in Spain, is there any news if Rosie Mac is back as Emilia’s double? There was some rumor they were going to give her a speaking part on the show (which didn’t pan out). According to her Instagram, she’s in Texas shooting a feature now, so maybe they got someone else? I’m curious because she posted some behind the scene pictures over the course of S5 that might have qualified as spoilers.
LOL! Yeah. Right.
That would be so atrocious that I almost wish that it happens… Not to GoT though, to some other show I don’t care about…
I’m of the siesta,
I have to agree, it would go badly. I’ll never understand why some people think that just because you’re a big fan of a show you can be a script consultent for it. You may know what does and what doesn’t make sense in the show (let’s forget for a moment that that’s highly subjective), but that does not mean that you know how to make a tv show work, let alone such a giant like GoT. – Besides, the show has already felt that role with a lot of different people, hell even GRRM himself is a consultent for the show. What more can you want?
I’m of the siesta,
Abyss,
Agree completely. The last thing TV Show makers or movie makers should do is consult people on the internet! That is not how you create art, that’s how you create generic, lackluster crap… Aka The Avengers (fine if people think it’s fun, but it’s a one dimensional, no thinking required, popcorn flick). Art isn’t for everyone, some people love it, some people hate it (Star Wars Prequels, anyone?). That’s just how it works. It’s when you try to please everyone that the magic is lost and you’re left with a husk of a product.
So far D&D have done a phenomenal job, GOT is still one of the greatest TV Shows ever made, and better yet, through their work, they’ve encouraged people to go and read the books. People that might never have heard of ASOIAF otherwise.
The books are the books, the show is the show. They are never, ever going to be the same, because what works on the written page does not necessarily translate to the screen. D&D understand this. Once you accept this, you’ll actually learn to appreciate the changes they make.
Tori Targaryen,
I’m with you. – But… Did you just propose that the Star Wars prequels of all things could be considered art by some people? You did not, right (serious question, it’s the middle of the night here in Germany)? – I mean unless we go with John Cage’s defintion (which I actually like):
– But still, I know no one, who likes the Star Wars prequels. 😀
Oh no, I didn’t mean it like that. More as like let’s say you have 1 show only fan and 1 book fan and you let them read outlines of story arcs and just comment/question things that may not make sense to them, etc. More like another pair of eyes in case something comes across really wonky. I always wished Lost had done something like that just because season 6 fell apart so spectacularly that if some other eyes that were really into the show and not paid yes men might have questioned things like Dogen’s temple, the cork, etc.
I generally think D&D have done a great job, with a few missteps here and there. Likely a better job than we could have expected from anyone else and we’re quite lucky that this wasn’t turned into a 2 hour movie about Dany and Jon only!
Abyss,
I like the prequels, as do many people I know lol. Are they their favourites of the SW films? No, but they appreciate them all the same. I’m also a rare breed that likes the Special Editions as well 😀
In George We Trust…. Eh… Both of them, in this case :p
Why would they let themselves be captured? The fact that they disobeyed Doran so flagrantly suggests that they have somewhere else to go.
The Star Wars prequels are a wonderful example of the difference between plot and story. The biggest reason why they so disappointed people (even beyond Jar Jar) was the fact that they were devoid of any story: they were just a series of events with no greater “meaning.”
No offense, but that is literally the worst idea I’ve ever heard.
dummypants,
I get were you’re coming from, but “another pair of eyes ” only gets you so far. The fast majority of “mistakes” in the show arn’t actually such. they were just compromises or creative decisions. – And again, there are already a lot of book readers and show only watchers that do these things, the show doesn’t need two more random people from the internet to jump in. 😉
Tori Targaryen,
I’m confused… A little piece of my worldview just crumbled… – I… I think I’ll go to sleep now…
That’s exactly what happened to me. A friend and I started quite late watching GoT: we binge-watched season 1 and 2 and then waited patiently the next season. I was quite reticent to read the books because I’m not usually a fantasy literature reader… By the end of season 3, I was so hooked on the story that I binged-read the five tomes in between seasons… And I absolutely loved each one of them!! (yes, even AFfC). But I understand they are two completely different things. As you’ve said: “The books are the books, the show is the show”.
Agreed! In spite of what most people would like to see happen to them, I think we’ll see the Sand Snakes again next season.
I must agree. Just look at the Harry Potter films. A big segment of the Potter fans actually felt that the first two films were by far the best because they adhered to closely to the narrative. The fact that neither film remembered to include the actual story completely eluded them! (Rowling herself stated that the third film, which was the most aggressively adapted, did a much better job of telling her story than did either of the first two.) In addition to getting hoo-hum reviews, the audiences plummeted after both films.
And we can also look at the Lord of the Rings films. A lot of Tolkien fans hated those films. However, they did a great job of telling a story about preserving/restoring natural order, which is what many people have always said is the story that the books tell. Oh, and there were all of those critical accolades, and the films actually increasing ticket sales. (Up to that point, this was uncommon: when sequels made more money, then it was almost always because of inflation, not increased ticket sales.)
The convention that the better a filmed adaptation of a book is the more the fans of the book will hate it is tongue-in-cheek, but not false, either.
Or maybe they have really fallen out with the film commission there over the filming permit for Cersei’s nude scene last year. Could be that they made a demand a la “give us the permit or we may have to take our business elsewhere next time” and they didn’t get it, so now they are not back in Croatia, but moved their business to Spain.
I like the Prequels and Special Editions too. 😀
Wimsey,
God, I remenber all the hate LOTR got when the movies came out. Because they changed things.
Only to name a few:
Faramir not being kind with Gollum.
The army of the dead lifting the siege of Minas Tirth(Hope I wrote this right, haven’t read the books in over 6 years)
It was bloody ridiculous.
Um I would not advocate the fandom get involved in making TV. That’s why they have Cogman, because he knows how to make TV but is a superfan of the books.
However, about the Dorne issue you bring up, I needed some time to think about it but I thought the strongest scenes were like Doran and Jaime’s meeting for example, that was a good scene. Siddig was great, Jaime got to play diplomat, the set was gorgeous since it was the Alcazar, and it got TIME. I think editing might have been a bigger issue than is realized in the Dorne storyline problems. It’s a shame the SS biggest scene was when they’re in jail with Bronn. Perhaps better material was written for them (for example Obara’s intro at the tent in the desert) but was cut on time or reordered. It may have made more sense on the page than on screen, is all I’m saying. I just thought it the scenes once they arrive in Dorne and meet the Martells and Sands had a few more minutes in the season, they could have let Siddig and others shine and breathe a bit more. Siddig as Martell was great in his opening scene with Indira Varma in the solar, and I just wish we had seen more of that later.
But that’s off topic. Main point- it’s fully possible they’re going to do all KL as interiors and patch together old Dubrovnik B roll or shoot a few exteriors in Spain. Does anyone know anything about the KL storyline for the season beyond speculation? I would hate for them to miss a year of shooting in Dubrovnik!
Jaime’s girl,
Only speculation, the story is exactly where the books end.
Regarding Dubrovnik: according to the rumours overhere in Croatia, the filming in Dubrovnik will take place in October for couple of days (a week?) only.
I presume they gonna use Dubrovnik as KL exteriors as they did for previous seasons.
Areo Hotah was the most pointless piece of casting I’ve ever seen on GOT (and the casting so far has been spot on). The character did nothing other than hold a spear out in front of Ellaria and make an empty (cheesy) threat to Jaime. They could easily have had some extra in a non speaking role take his place. Very disappointing (although book Hotah was also a snore fest).
Kay,
She will.
Her vision about battlements of Winterfell will happen. She never said anything about Stannis. Another nice piece of foreshadowing is from season 3 and her meeting with Arya.
454,
Please don’t call another poster an idiot. Not everybody wants to read EVERY thread on the website.
I thought it might be a flashback. Although I quite like the idea of Melisandre (the character, no disrespect to Carice the actress) popping her clogs after what happened to Shireen, the baddies do seem to hang around – we had to wait three and a bit seasons for Joffers to get his comeuppance.
Abyss,
Pretty much every star wars person i know is split with either the old or new movies.
Wimsey,
What would fill your criteria check of a greater meaning? Is it somehow based on literary merits? Cause the prequels has adapted well into other media like tv, video games and tv. So you could say the prequels transcend its medium, and thus has a greater meaning.
dummypants,
You got to be kidding me,have you seen some of the book purists around this fandom ? I would trust a dog to be smarter than those gits .
Tatters,
“Story” is like melody: it is an abstraction that transcends the individual parts. Star Wars was a story about restoring natural order. Empire was a story about owning up to personal Demons.
However, the prequels lacked any stories: they were just plots. It basically was like enacting historical events: not only were things arbitrary, but there was nothing linking the evolution of the characters. And that more than anything else is why people were so disatisfied with the prequels. (Of course, the fact that the plot was invented for different stories had a lot to do with it: plots shoukd be constructed with stories in mind.)
As for ths spin off games, etc., many historical events such as WWII have inspired games. However, WWII was history, not a story!
Geralt of Rivia,
As will her vision anout burning Bolton banners. However, they might not happen at the same time, and they clearly will not be linked the way that she initially assumed!
Abyss,
Thank you.
454,
a FACT. LOL funny how *RUDE* can be some people and don’t understand simple things like *human decency*
Way off topic but HBO just confirmed a possible Deadwood movie. They are in “early talks”. Nothing concrete, but still gives me an erection. Thank you Ian McShane and GoT for generating some buzz.
Dame of Mercia,
It’s not true. I heard back today from a trustworthy source- McShane isn’t playing a High Priest of R’hllor.
And for people who may seen a rumor about Magheramorne Quarry being condemned/shut down, that’s not true either.
Aladdin With The Magic Penis Lamp,
You need to take it down a notch.
Sue the Fury,
Seems to be the same person who continually graces us with his/her presence.
Rygar,
Well if they did an Entourage movie and two shitty Sex in the City movies,anything is possible,although i would personally prefer a Rome movie since i liked that show better,westerns aren’t really my cup of tea .
I had no idea about that. So maybe other people don’t, either, and think writing something there is not such a bad idea…
What are you 12 years old? Once a person matures, mom jokes cease to offend. Once you are out of High School you will understand.
That was just a “gun-hanging” scene for the poison. They had to get that in there somewhere.
But in the end, they did a good job of telling Jaime’s story, albeit very differently than in the books. It was the slowest to unwind to be certain, but the final payoff was pretty powerful.
Now you’re speaking the truth. For once.
Sue the Fury,
I wonder what the troll-de-rolls would be able to achieve if they put their effort into doing something positive?
dee,
Why would anyone oppose a nude scene in Croatia?
Sue,
Running a site can really suck and sometimes it’s like playing Whack-a-Troll. I think you do a wonderful job and …since there trolls in need of whacking, I thought I’d just tell you thanks for the site, thanks for the info, thanks for sharing what you can.
In other news, Portman seemed to do very little filming, as did Dean Charles Chapman. I’m putting Pod and Tommen in my death pool.
Drupsin123,
You mad, bro?
Trying something out. Some of you should be getting an email if you’ve posted in this thread. You’re guinea pigs.
Sou,
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-08-26/naked-game-of-thrones-5-walk-is-banned-in-dubrovnik
@Sue
Done. Howdy!
Sue the Fury,
Got your email. Yes I am available this Saturday night. Pick you up at 7?
Sue the Fury,
Guinea pig no. 2 answering – it worked.
Loved the password.
Some footage I found about the Almeria location. Don’t know what she’s saying though. Probably what we already know.
Exactly what happened to me, except I didn’t get around to binge reading the books until between seasons 4 & 5.
So what are they building there that requires them to start 2 months prior to filming? Can’t we speculate on that instead of sniping at each other?
A castle? A city? Something to be destroyed? Presumably something from Book 6 we haven’t heard of yet…
Gravemaster,
Cool, thanks, we’ll add it to the post!
I would love the season to end on Dany traveling to KL, while Cersei burns it to the ground and the Others marching on the Wall while it begins to crack. Fire and Ice.
But I really like the corny juxtaposition of things like that.
Gravemaster,
She says what we already know; Trucks with more construction material arriving today. Work begins on monday 🙂
Well I became “Sullied” the lazy way – listened to the audio books. They used to have them on YouTube but I think some of them have been deleted now due to copyright issues (I just thought if they were posted on YouTube they were legitimate). Except for ADWD – I managed to get that from the library – the books are difficult to get on library loan, at least where I live.
Gravemaster,
She’s mostly just going on about production details but nothing that we can’t all observe as outsiders.
Couldn’t Pod and Tommen’s actors be coming back to film later? I remember Carice doing quite a bit of flying between Belfast and Amsterdam in seasons past.
Ravyn,
I remember that Rosie Mac announced in Instagram that she will be Daenerys´ double for season six and she will start shooting in September, I can´t find the post, she must have deleted it.
Glad to hear this is bogus. Seemed like a waste – and distracting – to have McShane only in one scene.
Gravemaster,
Nothing really new besides what we already know: she talks about production details and locations in Almería as well as elsewhere in Spain.
outdoorcats,
Perhaps mel has a whole arc for herself next season, where she travels around Westeros, dragging jons corpse, trying to find Thoros in the riverlands but ending up in ASHAII with mcshane as the high priest, and he ressurects Jon. That would certainly match the ‘smal but critical role’. Does sound rather fatfetched I know. But a crazy priestess dragging a corpse around a wartorn country would certainly make for a bizarely powerful subplot.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
That reminded me of a crazy guy named Cicero from Skyrim
dummypants,
This person must be on some good crack. hiring fans on the Internet to supervise scripts because it’s the best idea in the world. I think the 49ers should hire me as a quarterback since I’m really good at madden and I watch football every Sunday.
M,
That is particularly the case for Chapman. He might well have scenes with Cersei, and Lena Headey seems to still be on maternity leave.
They are not going to elevate Mel to a central character at this late date. Besides, why wouldn’t she just do it herself? This isn’t D&D where the clerics have to “learn” their spells at high levels! (Besides, if they had such a thing, then Mel would be one of the highest “level” clerics in the Red Church, it seems.) R’hllor answers her prayers, or he doesn’t (as Thoros explained).
Ciel,
I’m a huge Chelsea fan and wach football(refuse to call it soccer, sorry) regurarly so Jose Murinho should give me a call any day now.
I’m also the best FIFA player in neighbourhood, so that should help.
I missed all the fun. PM a brother, wouldya?
:flounce:
Jaime’s girl,
Ummm … The show was pretty close to where the book ended but there really is one big plot point that has yet to be revealed which involves Doran – not sure how the show will handle this (or if it will).
Wimsey,
Ok Wimsey – What is the story that GRRM is telling? That all men must die? That everything ends up dark and gloomy? That each of us embody good and evil? Not quite sure what it would be….This reads more like a historical novel than a fantastic uplifting message.
Kay,
She has to! She will see arya at some point.
Sue the Fury,
What is this for?
Paul,
Argh come on! You can’t say he’s pointless when you’ve only seen him in one season. You could say the same for Qyburn, when he first appeared in season 3. All he did was sow up jamies stump. Any extra with a Chain could have done that. But he was there for a reason, and obviously had a part to play later on. Saying Areo Hotah is a pointless casting is kind of ignorant. You have no idea what his role is. The fact that he’s a pov in the books should only tell you that he’s probably gonna be important. It’s a good thing when they have the oportunity to introduce someone before he gets really important, that way the characters built up is much more homogenic
Deesensfan,
We’re trying to test something new on the site and we’re asking some commenters to participate. Using ourselves isn’t good enough of a test–we need regular readers from all over using different devices. If you receive an email, please respond. If not, don’t worry.
Dame Pasty,
Oh perfect! Will do! 🙂
I don’t take anything that Melissandre has said at face value. She has been proved so completely, massively wrong in so many, many things, that she comes across more as a fraud, who likes burning people. She may well meet Arya again, and it can even be in Season 6 if Arya goes back to Westeros next season, but at this point it’s not gospel for me. 😉
That is the “bittersweet” bar I have set for ASoI&F. If it ever does rise above that and attempt to be uplifting, consider me as delighted as a dancing pig in a mud pit.
Well, so far GRRM has told four stories:
Story 1: Choosing between conflicted values;
Story 2: Choosing between conflicted loyalties;
Story 3: Sorting out Love hate relationships;
Story 4: Killing the lesser & becoming the greater.
Taken together, these probably are working towards some “superstory” that will reflect whatever it is the unites the character evolution of Jon, Daenyrs, Arya, Tyrion and Bran. Those are the five characters that have been protagonists in every story. There isn’t a word for that insofar as I know, as the basic idea seems fairly unique to SciFi/Fantasy. For example, the 7 Harry Potter stories taken together told a story about Hard vs. “Wrong” Paths, as each story was about that concerning some different issue.
Now, what will that “superstory” be? We can start to narrow that down a bit. All five of those characters have developed egalitarian streaks, have had to learn to compromise, and have had to put aside personal ambitions/desires/hopes while attempting to make the best of a lot of bad deals. That doesn’t help a lot: but it is better than nothing! However, I do not think that it is going to concern “fantastic uplifting messages” (which really sounds closer to theme than story, anyway) any more than “Death and Immortality” was for Lord of the Rings.
Also, it’s a role that had to be done. Doran needs a guard, and Doran needs someone to whom to speak so that the audience can know what is happening. Using one incidental character instead of several was just parsimonious. (His role in the book was a bit different: he basically was 3rd Party PoV in an attempt to develop Arianne in a rush.)
Mel is no fraud. She simply reaches the wrong conclusions given what she is shown. However, there is a very long tradition of making prophecy and foresight ironic: it never means what it appears to mean, but it does mean what it says/shows.
As for Mel’s enjoyment of burning people, the real question we should be asking is: why does this R’hllor thing (whatever it is) bestow power in exchange for burning things, especially people of power? Basically, when the hairless apes burn someone, they get a banana pellet of magical power. That should seriously worry people!
All I know is, I really want Arya to introduce Mel to Needle. 😉 AFTER she brings Jon back, of course. Cant wait to see what they are building here!
If Arya goes around killing people, what next for her? Where does her story end? She’s a child assassin. Does she just get over it? Stop killing, settle down with a nice Baratheon bastard and spew out a baby?
I’ve always been bothered by Arya’s story because the only ending I see for her is death.
Well, the question I ask myself is: Why doesn’t any other R’hllor follower regularly burn people to get more power? In all the wanderings about in Essos so far, I don’t see much ritualistic burning of important people so far. Mel may not be a “fraud”, she is likely genuine and extraordinarily untalented at her professed job, but she does give the “appearance” of fraud. As in: if I came across a Mel-like person in RL who has been so spectacularly wrong, I would call that person a fraud. In Season 6, I want to see Mel brought down many pegs in her estimation of herself.
I wouldn’t mind that. 😀 However I have long held a wish that Mel would be a nice snack for Drogon and siblings before leaving this mortal coil. 😀 She would be honored to be serving the Lord of Light’s instruments. 😉
HotPinkLipstick,
I share your concern about Arya. Even in the HOBAW, she seems to have embraced Valar Morghulis with enthusiasm, but not so much Valar Dohaeris.
Sorry about the weirdness in my post above. The second quote was replying to Dragons125, not HotPinkLipstick.
It is implied that they do do this. (In the books,
But as for Mel, I would argue the opposite: she probably is unusually talented at what she does. Remember, all she gets are glimpses of what will be: she isn’t shown how those things come to be. Her inferences are not that bad, all things considered. However, keep in mind that it is not possible to make a logically valid conclusion about how future events will come to pass even if you know what those events are. She sees Bolton Banners burning. She sees herself at Winterfell. Well, given that she is with Stannis’ Army that is attacking Winterfell, the simplest explanation is that Stannis will succeed: two visions explained with one stone. Except that clearly is no the only way that this will come to pass!
Curiously,
Why should this be more of a problem for Arya than for, say, Jon? This is a kill or be-killed world. The bigger issue is: will Arya lose herself to Facelessness, or will she manage to remain Arya Stark while at the same time gaining the skills? Her parting words to Trant indicate that, so far, she has not become “nobody.”
No.
Chickenduck,
Indeed, weren’t some of the fan ideas about what was happening on Lost really inane? I know that a lot of the fan ideas for Harry Potter were just barking mad.
Sue the Fury,
Thanks Sue. It would have been a huge waste of his talent.
Wimsey,
As to the story – I am hoping in the end that it has something to do with the loyalty and values it takes to reunite and unify family in horrible times. We’ll just have to wait to see if there is any possibility of that (seems like that may be too cheerful for GRRM anyway tho).
GRRM seems to write pretty “amoral” tales, in the sense that there is no reward for “good” deeds and no punishment for “bad” deeds. The first two stories really emphasized that: Ned dies trying to compromise between two values (“Never relent against your enemy” vs. “never make war on women and children,” which runs into problems when your enemy is a woman and her children), and Catelyn sets the wheels in motion that culminate in the Red Wedding by following her “Family, Duty, Honor” creed for two children (Sansa and Arya) at the expense of a third (Robb).
For the most part, GRRM’s stories (here and elsewhere) are from the “each protagonist is his/her own worst antagonist” school. If there is going to be any type of “value” to be rewarded, then I suspect that it will be the value of compromise because that is one way to reconcile two seemingly antithetical concepts. Alternatively, it might be that it will come down to people being able to think of a 3rd option. In a way, we’ve started seeing that with Jon, Daeny, Arya and Tyrion. Still, even that has not worked out well so far: compromises and thinking outside of the box have gotten Jon knifed and Daeny almost poisoned!
I’m wondering if the report of McShane playing a High Priest of Rh’llor in Asshai with Mel might not be a garbled version of a flashback to Mel’s training by Marwyn, who we know was in Asshai sometime in the past training Mirri Maz Duur.
Mod note: I’ve already confirmed that this report is 100% false. Let’s not keep spreading it around. Thanks! – Sue the Fury
Firannion,
That report was not legit.
Wimsey,
Yes, I suppose “If you think this has a happy ending, you haven’t been paying attention.” Yet – I hope for some type of satisfying resolution. 🙂
To me, if there is any common thread that ties the downfall of characters together, whether we would normally consider the “good guys” or “bad guys”, it is that an excessive fixation on one trait or characteristic tends to lead to their downfall:
ie: Ned was too focused on “honor”, Tywin on “family prestige”, Rob on “love”, Cat and Cersi both on “welfare of their children” in one way or another, Oberyn on “revenge”, etc. etc. I’m pretty sure Stannis will/has fall due to his concept of “his rights and duties” an the Freys due to “pettiness regarding respect for his house” etc.
So I think you’re right, compromise/flexibility will be the key – ie: Jon is honorable but has lied, betrayed, broken vows, etc. when need be. Danny is about freedom but she does not hesitate to command impose her will. Tyrion is at heart an idealist and romantic but he can be skeptical, cynical and decidedly unromantic.
As do we all! Of course, it is not possible for it to be satisfactory for everyone, any more than it is possible to make a meal that everyone will enjoy. And many, many fans will not like it regardless of what the ending is, because (just as with Harry Potter, Lost, Battlestar Galactica, etc.) different groups of fans are actively hoping for very different types of endings.
That written, I think that something like the final Harry Potter book will be most successful overall. That is, an ending in which we see what the primary characters (particularly Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya & Bran) do and then look back at where they started in Game of Thrones, where they had moved to by Swords and Dragons, and then where they moved from there and see how it all ties together.
(Still, there will be some people complaining about some analog of the nature of Harry’s scar or Snape’s motivations that will rankle a lot of SoI&F fans who did not want those things to be true, or complaints about the analog of how Harry resolved things in the end that is different from the sort of resolution that some fans wanted to see: but that is unavoidable at this point.)
Dolorous Methuselah,
My thought is that, in the end, this is what is going to be key: figuring out which vow or belief to uphold when 2+ vows or beliefs come into conflict, figuring out the middle ground between love and hate, the compromise between the child and the adult, or the person you wish to be vs. the person you need to be, etc. In particular, those five characters that were prominent in every story so far should be central to this as they all have done this to varying degrees already. We’ve seen them all try, fail, and try again in different ways. That should lead to something!
Wimsey,
I actually would prefer something more in the line of Return of the King (then final HP book). I really did appreciate Tolkien’s bittersweet ending – the elves leaving along with Frodo. I thought it was strange that Harry made it through all unscathed with a family.