HBO is rolling out a new behind the scenes series for Game of Thrones, offering viewers an exclusive look inside the show. “The Game Revealed,” a 5-part docuseries, focuses on the creation of the first two episodes of season 6 for this initial outing. The docuseries is available on HBOGo and HBONow at the moment, but luckily a fan has shared the first episode on YouTube.
In addition to The Game Revealed, MakingGameofThrones has shared two sets of storyboards from this week’s episode “Home.”
MGoT posted two storyboards from “Home,” including the final scene where Jon wakes up (see him being referred to by his code name “L.C.”, short for Lord Commander), and the scene where Tyrion visits the dragons to offer a little TLC.
The Resurrection:
Dragon Daycare:
hodor
Wyllis, first of his name!
Euron is the Harpy!
All behind the scenes stuff is awesome!
Great to see
Lol, those storyboards don’t reflect what happened exactly
Although this is nice because we get a rough outline and then it is interesting to see the impact the Director and or SFX department in the case of Ghost has
I wonder how much influence the Director has on CGI SFX?
Within the first minute of the episode, Jeremy Podeswa, director of episodes 1 & 2, refers to Jon’s resurrection as his “rebirth”.
I don’t think this is a synonym used carelessly. I think that term has specific meaning for what to expect from Jon’s character in the coming episodes.
Jon Snow has not been resurrected. The man we knew as Jon Snow has been reborn. Think about what that could mean.
That top image is PERFECTION ??? Carice is such a hoot
Looks like a great series–am so excited thinking about what they could be covering! Big thanks to whoever uploaded the vid.
tkk,
Dario (sp?) is the King Harpy.
Think about it, what incentive did he ever have to work with Denerys? She’s pretty?
Note, it was Dario that split the group at the end of season 5, dictating who goes on the rescue mission and who stays. He did this because it fits his plan. He wants to rule Slaver’s Bay and he is systematically destroying Denarys ruling resources to usurp her.
That, or, he’s not.
“Rebirth” 🙂
I’m outraged at how they drew Jon’s hair in shot 3 lol. Blasphemy!
Honestly, I thought the resurrection scene was very classy.
This is NOT on HBO Go…. only HBO Now which I am unable to sign up for from my computer.
Wrz,
It is on HBO go. Go to season 6, episode 2, then look for “extras” and click. In there are a few items, one of which is the doocuseries episode.
I am sure that in the books Jon’s resurrection will bring about a very different person. We’ll see if the show does the same, or if you just get some uber-Jon now. But if they truly care about the story GRRM is telling, then Jon will come back very focused on a task… which is why the book version of events makes sense (save Fake Arya, face Ramsay, and take back Winterfell), and the show version will likely be simplified (Ramsay has Rickon, sends Jon a letter, and they end up facing each other). Obviously this is just speculation, but the super simplified story telling the show has “evolved” into since season 5, means this is the most likely scenario.
And so, Jon’s personality should be more aggressive, less introspective. I imagine one of the ways to make that clear on the show would be to have him execute the men who betrayed him but not swing the sword himself. That would be VERY telling. That would tell even the laziest of viewers “Oh shit, this is not our Jon.”
soo cool!!.. I am gonna have to watch the rest of them on HBOGO now…
loved Peter talking about how Tyrion felt during the “Dragon Daycare” scene and the behind the scenes of Jon’s “rebirth” (and for sure Podeswa used that term for a reason)
They trollin’ us ladies with some of those shots of Kit though..that little piece of cloth BARELY left anything to the imagination lol
Fancy word for a sellsword,
This is growing on me
Of all the things that leak or get spoiled, I am so happy the resurrection/rebirth scene didn’t! Sure some other shots leaked that prove this was bound to happen (that I enjoyed knowing about nonetheless!) but the actual scene or info on how, didn’t, and I think it helped me truly enjoy that moment. And if by some long shot it actually did somewhere online, then lucky me for not stumbling upon it!
GeekFurious,
They’ve said in interviews that this would be pointless if it wouldn’t result in a change in Jon’s character.
Jericho Kenobi,
Oh ok, thanks. Weird that it didn’t come up when I used search.
Jericho Kenobi,
kill the boy and let the man be born
Fascinating they weren’t on location for Tyrion freeing the Dragons
I quite liked how they did the Rope Bridge scene
GeekFurious,
I agree for the most part but I think Jon will still swing the sword, because he will be more bestial and aggressive. In the books its heavily foreshadowed that he will die, warg into Ghost for his second life, and then be brought back to his body. The book also goes into detail that those who enter into the skin of their animal will begin to take on the characteristics of that animal until the human “spirit” is no longer recognizable as human but fully animalistic. When Jon returns he will be very different, much more like Ghost. Acting more on animal instinct rather than human emotion or reason, resulting in someone becoming more aggressive, decisive, and implacable.
GeekFurious,
Agree with top paragraph
Not sure he’ll execute the people who killed him though
A change in personality can be articulated by a hostility he develops toward Ollie for instance.
He will perhaps take on more of an aggressive Free Folk persona, and have no qualms about telling the NW to shove it when Sansa comes Alys Karstark style, he hears about her mistreatment and then learns Rickon is captive (and so prospectively spur him into action – well spotted) as fArya stand-in.
Borrowing from Tormund vs Lord of Bones/Rattleshirt stand-off, would love to see him a bit more no nonsense and even aggressive. At the very least assertive, as in the past he has been rather introvert.
There will be a different look at well to give a visual cue, eg I think I read on one of the interviews he adopts a man-bun and Melisandre trimmed his beard etc
I expect some changes from Sansa as well tbh, eg she goes in a Lothston/Lady Stoneheart direction and end up going too far
I HEART DEAD LANNISTERS (EVEN TYRION),
Yeah it would be quite fascinating to see him rather like Ghost, in this case though he may end up with some really slick stealth skills etc
I think there may have been a foreshadowing, just before Ghost turns up after battle for the Wall Jon is thinking about being hungry just sitting there on the North side, then starts thinking about how he could really go for some Elk and then Ghost comes up beside him out of nowhere
Luka Nieto,
Have they? It’s what lot of people think is likely, but it is nice to know that the writers have actually said it too.
I saw this on HBONow 2 days go whilst searching for the trailer again. It really is such a cool thing for them to do of fans. They know how interested people are in movie magic, it’s smart of them to release cool stuff like this, keep interest alive (not that they need to anymore).
Ghosts Lunch,
That’s a very spot-on observation, given the “Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Kill the boy, and let the man be born” line by Maester Aemon. 🙂
OT: I love this comment by Pilou Asbaek on twitter! https://twitter.com/PilouAsbaek/status/728147594975698944
Actually Hibberd said it on his GoT podcast, commenting on his EW exclusive interview with the cast and crew about Jon’s resurrection. His co-host asked if Jon would be changed, and Hibberd said he asked the same question to D&D, and they said the death and resurrection would be pointless otherwise.
Confirms it was Mel who brought Jon back, I know there were some still having doubts.
ghost of winterfell,
Euron is going to be doing a lot of killing it seems 🙂 can’t wait for it.
AAR confirmed!
Ah! I wonder why they are hiding these gems.
Luka Nieto,
Okay thanks, it’s good to know, since I feel the same regarding the issue.
Storyboards precede production: so, the production did not reflect the storyboards exactly.
I find it interesting that initially Viserion does breathe fire at Tyrion. Also, what would have happened to the ratings if they had shaved Jon?!?!? 😀
I disagree. Jon may change a bit, but he will lose neither his sense of honor nor his sense of duty. Jon will still be Jon. He will have let the boy die, yes, and the man will be born, but he has to remain a good and wise leader. That is, IMO, central to the story. We don’t want or need another Mother Merciless. Jon’s warging may be why we don’t get one.
Jericho Kenobi,
“kill the boy, Jon Snow, and let the man be born.”
As would Daeny’s imprisonment, Arya’s blindness, Bran’s apotheosis, etc.! How could anyone go through experiences like that without it affecting them?
It seems to me that people have looked at this through two extremes: Jon being unphased or Jon being completely rewritten. It has to be somewhere in the middle. Ygritte changed Jon. Living with the Wildlings changed Jon. Being elected Lord Commander changed Jon. We can make similar lists for Daeny, Tyrion, etc. If we think of these as vectors and compare what those vectors have in common, then we probably will get some big insights into where M,B&W are headed with all of this.
I liked how they had him gasping heavily for breath. That is what someone who has not breathed for a while would do. (Of course, usually “a while” is measured in minutes, not hours!)
Yeah, you get a lot of insightful commentaries. You can get the older ones, too. At times they present some interesting discussions about book->screen adaptation. It’s often interesting listening to the actors describe how they were trying to present things at different times, too. They do this for a lot of TV shows these days.
Ginevra,
Completely agree!!
First, you have to buy the app through GooglePlay and then just follow the instructions/prompts. I did mine from my phone but I watch it on my tv cause I have the app on my tv AND computer.
Wimsey,
Perfectly said Wimsey. Perfectly said.
Of course his death will change him. Just like every other event in his life changed him.
But he won’t be a different Jon. He will still be the character we all know and love. He will change just as much as Ygritte changed him, just as much as being elected LC changed him.
Very well said Wimsey!
YES!
*Insert several hundred words in which I babble about how amazing this production team is here* 🙂
That video was fantastic. Seeing all of the work that the cast and crew put into every frame of the show only increases my already sky-high levels of admiration for them and the art they’ve produced. It looks like we’ll be getting five of these behind-the-scenes videos, one for each director’s pair of episodes. I can’t wait to see the rest!
ghost of winterfell,
I’m hard pressed to think of anything that I care about less in this world than the fact that Euron doesn’t have his ridiculous eyepatch (or blue lips, for that matter). Coming up empty at the moment. Both that tweet and the message it sends makes me very happy.
Yes, Podeswa also uses the term, so I wonder if it wasn’t coined by the producers. Even the set design was called Dragon Daycare, it would seem, as the set pieces were labeled “Daycare”! Here is the set piece:
GeekFurious,
You are very sure of how the story will/should go, in a book that isn’t out yet.
If Jon starts warging (and I think that he might), then it probably will not start until after he deals with the Nationalists. After all, the “learning to warg” trajectory for Bran was pretty long. However, Jon presumably is going to deal with the mutineers quickly simply because the plot needs to get off of this and going onto other things (like, say, Ramsay) Taken together, that means that they certainly will not have time to develop warging in Jon before they have to tie up this portion of the plotline.
That written, I am betting that Jon is going to wind up sparing the Nationalists: and that this will leave them as beholden to Jon as the Wildlings are. We keep expecting this experience to make Jon more vicious: but it could make him more “soulful” in the end.
And I do think that we might start seeing Jon warg. Benioff shares in the commentaries something that never has been given on the show: all of the Starks have bonds with their wolves beyond the normal person-dog ones. On the show, Bran does: but the others all seem to have “boy (or girl) and his (or her) dog” relationships. If Jon starts warging, then the TV audience easily could learn that he’s always felt a connection to Ghost.
No Warging (while he was dead) for Jon on the show it seems.
http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/05/game-thrones-jon-snow-changes
I can’t wait to find out what Jon’s like more than I was looking forward to his resurrection. I just think those who think he’s still going to be “Jon” are being slightly naïve (or maybe I’m just wrong, who knows), because as D&D indicated, if he’s not different, there’s no point. And him being different to mean completely BETTER new and improved Jon runs counter to Martin’s philosophy about resurrection. He didn’t like how Gandalph came back and was better than ever. That’s his constant example. Might D&D simplify and make him more of himself? Maybe. But as I’ve said, there’s going to be something negative that causes us to lament his death and his rise. Something is going to be lost (I’m going to go with his memory and his attachment to his family members as a guess). Perhaps the hope will lie in the fact that he can get whatever it is back eventually, but if he gets what he’s lost “back” it will take the rest of the story for him to do so I believe.
Conan,
Feels good to be right.
But that would be completely at odds with the story that GRRM is telling. How can you have internal conflict without introspection? How can make a characters dynamic arc affect the final resolutions if they are less introspective in the end?
kit_hepburn,
I never denied he might be changed. Death ought to change him.
I simply disagree that he will return as this bloodthirsty person.
”Kill the boy” This is how I think he will change. He will finally ”kill the boy”.
Death itself won’t change him, he won’t return as a veangefull person.
The events, the moments he went trough will change him. Like Ygritte changed him, like him being LC changed him…and so on.
Did anyone else see the blood on Liam’s head in the beginning?
Awesome! His major change is that he’s truly strong and honorable, the implication being even more so. Very interesting, indeed. And I agree that this statement of oblivion seems to preclude warging, but I haven’t read the entire article.
Jon’s going to be more fearful of death
I think Jon is going to come back full of sunshine and giggles. He was a total mopey bastard before, why not a complete personality change?
He might skip and sing Six Maids in a Pool to Edd.
Seriously though, of course he’s going to be different. Resurrection is not a positive life change in Martin’s world. No matter that Jon is clearly the Jesus of the story (it’s really just Bible fanfiction!), Martin is going to put his twist on it such that Jon is not going to be a peacenik.
Look at it this way. If Jon had been somehow residing in Ghost’s mind, then they would have provided us with Ghost PoV shots in the same way that we get Summer PoV shots for Bran when he wargs. And they would have shown the PoV shift from Ghost to Jon when he jumped back.
Ah, but there is a big difference. Martin is referring to the fact that Gandalf the White was much more powerful a figure than was Gandalf the Gray. Gandalf came back greater in a quantitative sense, not a qualitative one. If Jon comes back more soulful and more understanding of the difficulty in pleasing two opposing sides, then he will be qualitatively “better” if. However, he will not be superstrong or superfast or speak in a deep echoing voice or have steam rise from his feet while he trods on the snow.
Martin is writing a completely different sort of story than Tolkien did. There are no protagonists in Lord of the Rings. The entire story (about death and immorality) is driven by the plot machinations. Song of Ice and Fire has multiple protagonists. The over-arching story (which seems to be about being-damned-if-you-do-damned-if-you-don’t) revolves around those main characters trying to do X-not-Y on one hand and Y-not-X on the other hand. Gandalf’s resurrection was about putting things back the way that they should be. Jon’s resurrection is going to be major evolution of his character.
So, it’s filled with parts that contradict the other parts? heh, well, that describes Martin’s characters pretty well!
But one thing to keep in mind: Jon Sparing Alisser and Jon the Peacenik need not be the same thing. We might see the same thing with Daeny and the Dothraki imprisoning her. The need to fight a bigger war might outweigh the desire for vengeance in both cases.
Conan,
that’s quite the detailed interview
so we get some
HotPinkLipstick,
Do you think he will be more open to dating other girls ?
**Please**
Ginevra,
He will become even stronger and more honorable? is that what youre saying?
I kind of think Dany’s a peacenik or at least ruled by her heart while Jon is ruled by his head. I don’t see old or new Jon sparing mutineers as LC. He will do his duty in all things.
Which duty? Punishing transgressions? Or maximizing the defenses of the Wall? He can do one duty at the cost of the other, or vice versa: but he cannot do both.
Here is an interview with Kit Harington where he explains why Jon would change and how he would change. It sounds interesting, but I am also a bit worried.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Chs3s0hWwAE_LqM.jpg
Dee,
We might not necessarily get all of this on the show: after all, they give actors much more information than they use in order to answer the age old question: “what’s my motivation?” If it was filmed, then it is also possible that it gets cut: dialog scenes are always the first thing to go or get trimmed.
This could go in many directions. After all, someone who understands the emptiness of death might be less quick to deal it to others.
Wimsey,
good point.
well I do hope we get some stuff on sunday
I believe that’s what Kit was saying in the interview. This is my attempt at a transcript of the end of the video from the article, http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/05/game-thrones-jon-snow-changes.
You’re kidding, right?
Ginevra,
No, he’s saying that he’s never been afraid of death, but now he is. Now he’s really afraid of death because there’s nothing on the other side.
Ginevra,
ohhhhhhh that’s so excitingggg
Or boys. I’m telling you that Edd has been looking FOINE lately.
No. Tolkien hated the concept of protagonists, and he heartily disliked character-driven storytelling. If you read his letters, then you will see him explain why he did not make any of the characters protagonists, and why he thought that the concept of a protagonist itself was a bad one.
Ah, but how will that affect how Jon deals with others? Someone who understands that there is nothing more than this life might not be so quick to hand out death to others.
kit_hepburn,
hmm good point lol
So he wasn’t talking about Olly?
HotPinkLipstick,
Hahaha he has.
But I was referring to myself LOLs
Fancy world for a sellsword,
I guess not
he should have killed olly though
Ginevra,
I hope this doesn’t mean I have to watch him die twice on the show lmao. Maybe him being fearful of death means he will be more cautious in the war with the WW and find ways to win while minimizing the damage…..idk….
I loved this quote: “He realizes something about his life now: He has to live it, because that’s all there is.”
I am getting the complete opposite idea. According to Kit, he will be more fearful of death but at the same he will realize that the life that he has now is the only thing that he has, and there is nothing beyond death.
To me that sounds like the opposite of honorable and strong. It sounds like he will be more cautious and less willing to stick his neck out. And in order to stay alive he might result to doing things that he would not previously have done.
That is how I read it.
Dee,
No matter how hot the man is, and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau in that dark leather jacket gives my lady parts the tingles, no way would I want to be a woman in Westeros. 😉
I am also looking forward to Jon’s reappearance. I’d kind of like WunWun to faint and crush the mutineers. And what a pathetic lot they were anyway.
That might be true, and it is a reasonable conclusion to make. I just hope his personality doesn’t change too drastically.
There are several ways to read it at this point. I am betting on one way: but if I am wrong, then I will not complain just as long as it fits one of the several ways to read it!
HotPinkLipstick,
I want to see the mutineers dead also, but I am afraid that Jon may not do that
Wun Wun fainting and crushing them LOL SO Good hahaha
hmmm, I would be a wildling. Those girls are BAD@$$$ – remind me of the Vikings ladies 🙂
Knowing whom to trust and whom not to trust is a mark of wisdom. Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me.
Jon gave Alliser a second chance when one of Jon’s first acts as LC was to make Thorne First Ranger despite the abuse that Alliser had heaped on him as an underling. He also made Thorne Acting Lord Commander while he went to Hardhome. How was that generosity and forgiveness repaid? FTfuckingW.
There is a reason that mutiny and high treason have always been punishable by life in prison or death. Anyone who would commit such acts should never again be trusted.
Mutiny is even more dangerous than during wartime than peacetime. It must be nipped in the bud, kicked in the ass, and severed in the head.
Of course, I could be wrong. But that’s how I imagine it will go down.
Boudica,
true, I didn’t think of it that way
wooooooow its so exciting that we don’t know what to expect.
One thing is for sure, I hope that he actually revenges his family 🙂
I tend to see Kit’s observations as a bit contradictory. For one thing, “oblivion” is not something you “remember”. You either remember “something” or you have no recollection (just as if you were asleep or under anesthesia), i.e. “nothing”.
It also implies then that the very “god(s)” that have this power, and allow humans to use this power, have zero interest in the humans they oversee. If there is “nothing” to death, then there is nothing to life, and no reason to worship any of them, nor to fear your own death, or the guilt of killing another. It’s not like you’re risking some eternal 7 hells, for you or anyone else, or an eternity of pain or guilt because of your actions, in other words. It allows for a completely amoral, cynical world and life view.
And lastly, for Kit to say that Jon now has “the fear of god in him” because there is “nothing” on the other side, you’d wonder why he wouldn’t want to be brought back again. It’s a contradiction to say you “never want to die again”, but if you do, “just leave me in the oblivion”. Why? What is so bad about oblivion? Isn’t “life” better? Why is Jon afraid of “nothing”? As Arya says, “Nothing, is just nothing”. And in the end, you either die of disease, injury, or old age. So what is living 1 year or 100 when you won’t recall a damn thing, and all your life’s work is ultimately unrewarded?
I’m sure it’s just hard for Kit to explain the existential, but hopefully there is more to this world of Martins than what Kit actually said. I tend to prefer to believe in good (reward) and evil (consequence). Just my own opinion, of course.
, it does not sound like he is being cautious or less willing to stick his neck out. I think it means he will be even more focused on the real priorities in his life (Harington says Jon knows that this is the only life and he really has to live it). I am very curious as to how he will change, this can go in so many directions
I feel like he added that sentence, that if Jon were to die again, he does not want to be brought back, just to keep the tension in his storyline, so that people don’t think that he is safe from death now.
So I refuse to consider his re-death!!
I agree that the quote is frustratingly unclear. I could well be wrong.
Luka Nieto,
I’m glad they said that. I was a bit worried about that, because I had the same thought as they mentioned. This would have been an utterly pointless plot if Jon returns as the same Jon Snow. I was more worried about the show than the books. I have no doubt he’ll be changed in the books, but was worried if it’s something bizarre that comes off better in the books than the show how they’d manage that. But it’s good to know they have managed it.
Direwolf Lvr,
This is a debate that we ourselves, in this world, haven’t really reached a conclusion.
I doubt we ever will, to be honest.
Another way to look at this. There is no afterlife, so the gods look after the people because they know this is the only life they will ever have..
But frankly I don’t want to open this can of worms. There are as many opinions as there are people, on this subject.
Boudica,
I would guess that Jon will realize that he needs to do what he needs to do AND what he wants to do. That has always been to me owning the fact that he is a Stark. He’s said several times that he’s not a Stark but he is, regardless of his name. He is more Stark than any of his siblings/cousins. He’s more Ned than Robb could ever hope to be. He wanted to join Robb’s cause, he was never able to renounced the strong ties to his siblings and Winterfell. Jon just like Arya can’t become someone else. They are Starks. And Jon just like Dany will now embrace his nature, for Dany that is fire and blood for Jon it will be making sure there’s always a Stark in Winterfell and preparing for the Long Night.
ghost of winterfell,
Hopefully that’s true. I want him to survive the Long Night.
I would be annoyed if he sacrificed himself in the end during the battle with the WW, for example. It goes against the new appreciation for life and caution that Kit claims Jon has.
True. However, history goes to those that take chances, and Jon needs everyone that he can get. Moreover, look at the Wildlings: those were enemies, but Jon’s mercy turned them into not just allies, but (it seems) followers.
A lot will hinge on how quickly Jon gets hinged. Will he be like Doctor Who, who always a bit loopy after a regeneration? Or will he get back to business quickly?
I could see this going any number of ways. At this point, I am betting on Jon sparing the Nationalists and making them devoted followers, too: but for me this is like betting on “7” in a dice roll; I think it the best bet, but I would not be surprised at a 6 or an 8, and I cannot rule out snake eyes.
There are multiple ways to read into his quote. When he says Jon’s never been afraid of death and that makes him an honorable person…but now he realizes there’s nothing after life and it strikes fear in him, that to me sounds like an opposite result. No fear = made him honorable, now fearful = ???.
I think I’d have to come to the conclusion reading that, being fearful may make him less honorable. Not that he’ll suddenly be a villain. But that he’ll no longer care about “honorable” things in this world such as vows or oaths, seeing them as pointless and wastes of time. I wouldn’t be surprised either if it leads to a wife at some point as well. George hits you over the head with that in the books how much Jon wishes he could have a wife. If he’s really going to start living life to the fullest, than that means doing what he wants, choosing what he wants to do and not being bound by duty or honor. And it will start with him ditching the Night’s Watch and riding South. Not because it’s “honorable” to take back Winterfell from Ramsay, but because he wants to. He chooses to do so.
Isn’t that what Beric said he saw? That seems vaguely familiar, somehow, but I cannot find the reference.
Ginevra,
He said. ”there is no other side, only darkness”
Flayed Potatoes,
Maybe his appreciation for life means preserving the lives of others at all costs? Including with his life. I adore Jon, my favorite character by far but I made peace long ago with the suspicion that he’s not going to have a happy life after all is said and done. If I’m completely wrong about that, I’ll be very happy.
Danny,
I hope not, especially looking at GRRM’s original outline with who would survive the series.
Flayed Potatoes,
But surviving doesn’t equate to having a decent ending. Frodo survived but his was I think a very sad ending for someone who didn’t deserve one. Sam, a true hero no doubt, got to have a family and the Shire, Frodo didn’t. And GRRM is a bit of a stoneheart when it comes to being kind to his characters. Do I wish Jon ends up lord of some region with a happy marriage and children? A big yes. Is it going to happen? Doubt it. GRRM is so stone-hearted that he might curse my poor Jon put him on that Iron Throne. That would be horrible for him.
Obviously, we’re all taken aback re-Kit’s level of telling lies. He ought to have been more convincing in his denial, from an acting standpoint.
I just hope now this won’t be handed to Mel as a success. No divine intervention from any stupid Lord of Light, who whispers through flames, and then has his messages misevaluated and onward conveyed.
There was a reason Rhaegar fell for Lyanna, other than she was just his type. For someone obsessed with prophecy and magic, Jon has to be the product of combining both. It makes sense too from a political angle, for North to bond with South. For wolf to bond with dragon, also. (Draco-lupus, I think, is appropriate term.)
Has anyone thought of Jon being semi-immortal? By that, I mean, he can’t be killed by normal methods by ordinary beings. Sure, he can take a beating, collect a few cuts but, that’s as far as it goes.
Go back to the encounter with Night’s King. Is there recognition on NK’s behalf in respect of Jon? An equal spotting an equal – then upping the game, as NK did.
Mel can’t resurrect Jon when he’s semi-immortal. Think Doctor Who, without need for any new body to re-generate into. Jon is a highly adaptable warg, capable of being in 2nd life for days. Rhaegar made sure, with Lyanna’s help.
BTW – Baco-foil, for cooking turkeys – Highly recommended. Ideal for Hot-Pies. Reminds me! I’m hungry, like the wolf! Ahhhhh-ooooo!
I do agree he really has to kill Alliser Throne specifically. It is especially important within the Nights Watch. The Nights Watch is the very last refuge point. Disobedience and treason can really not be tolerated.
I do agree with that. If there is nothing, then in the strictest sense you are basically free to do what you want.
Jon was in any case a follower of the Old Gods, it is not as if there was some Weirwood or tree heaven in that religion. Although we do know that a warg can live a second life in his animal, and after Varamyr died his conspicuousness was distributed to the ground, plants and trees.
Danny,
My wish-fulfillment ending is Jon and Sansa rebuilding Winterfell (maybe with the help of Bran if he doesn’t end up stuck to a tree). At this point, I just want him to live (bonus points if he’s not celibate lmao).
Sam’s ending was really sweet.
haha! For the Hair Watch!
I so love seeing these special effects clips. All the actors did such an amazing job too. So much emotion directed at a little green ball. Also Wun Wun on a stick was kind of amusing! 😀
GRRM’s outline only told us who the five primary characters for the series would be. That told us only that those five would make it to the climax of the story. It does not mean that they will be there for the denouement!
As others have pointed out, we also should not confuse “surviving” with “living happily ever after.” Surviving while wondering if there could not have been some other way would be very much a bittersweet ending.
He is? That information never is given on the show or in the books!
Separate afterthought – – – – Mel has to be disillusioned with her Lord of Light. Plus, her Mum and Sister think Jon’s hot, and, looking at the snap above, so does Carice!
Is it too much of a stretch for Mel to suddenly shift her deity-choice, to a real, living semi-immortal such as Jon? Instead of Lord of Light, she’d have Lord Commander of Hot (in her eyes). Light for heat? He is something she would believe in, and see that’s where LoL (lol!) has lead her all along.
Wimsey,
I checked the letter again and it says: “Five central characters will make it through all 3 volumes”. Then those 5 key characters are listed. I consider the denouement as part of the volumes. https://watchersonthewall.com/george-r-r-martins-original-plan-game-thrones/
I’m happy with surviving.
Wimsey,
Try Baco-foil. It can work wonders!
Gordon Bennett! Why be so serious all the time?
I think that Jon’s revival will rekindle Mels faith. Of course, from a strictly theological point of view, it’s not faith if you have evidence! Seeing is where believing stops and thinking starts, as the old saying goes.
I still think Jon’s going to not recognize Sansa when she gets to Castle Black because of the aftermath of his rebirth. And that he’s going to be a lot less honorable and more cold- maybe he’ll finally have sex with Melisandre and find out she’s 1000 years old during the middle of it. That could snap him back into being more honorable? 🙂 Just silly thoughts… but fun to share!
‘Wow, that was fascinating! I know that actors have to follow a ball and pretend that there is something there, but I wondered how they did the movement of the creatures with him touching them Ah, now i get it. Looking forward to the others in the series.
The entire EW interview with Kit has been posted and there are some interesting insights…
Ghosts Lunch,
Ha!
Manless Face,
probably depends on what he’saw’ while dead, if anything (often people with near death experiences will make some mention of things or people they see. Usually afterwards, they are not afraid of death, more accepting of it more like
I think its funny that they still use story boards! I always assumed things had moved on to the video like animation they had, but there certainly is a use for the older technolgy
Ghost,
This whole resurrection business can quickly turn into a no-win situation. I must admit that I ve never liked the idea of resurrections. I ve always hoped that Jon would just be badly injured. In the show he obviously dies but I will still hold on to my 5% of hope that he is just badly injured in the book.
If Jon’s original character does not change too much, then you have to wonder if a resurrection was really necessary. For example if Jon becomes a more selfish personality after being stabbed, do you really need him to die and be resurrected to reach that character development? Couldn’t a near death experience serve the same type of purpose? Using resurrection as a method of changing a character seems somewhat lazy.
On the other hand if you change the character too much then will it actually become a different or completely new character, and there would never be closure on the original character. It would not be good storytelling, and it would properly be frustrating for fans or readers.
Resurrection is something that is very prevalent in fantasy, and they have really done all of their setup work for Jon’s resurrection. I dont want to discard future characterization before I actually see what they will do on the show, but I am a bit nervous.
Yes, I agree that is how I saw it as well. I guess he will be more selfish now. If he wants to fight for his family then he will, and if he is offered a position again he will take it. And he would be willing to do less honorable deeds in order to stay alive. Or something along those lines.
Agreed, I ve always had the notion that the perfect ending for someone like Jon would be a nice holdfast, with a wife and kids.
(If the Boltons are destroyed, I say give Jon the Dreadfort, he can change the name). But the possibility of that happy ending is properly 0%.
Boudica,
Ok, so that just tossed out my idea in the last post 🙂 But he definitely doesn’t fear death.
(great link btw; does that come from a longer interview somewhere?
eta never mind, from EW)
getting John Snow back would be rendered completely pointless if he is a completely different person…. and it would be a bit cheap if he was absolutely the same.
so imo he will change a bit, but still largely be the character that we all love.
and yeah i think he will show mercy to his killers rather than execute them. Olly particularly has many reasons to hate what john did with the wildlings. he is a fucked up kid who was probably manipulated into the ruse that got JS killed. im surprised there is so little sympathy for him amongst the fandom.
What if Jon is so different that Ghost doesn’t know who he is anymore after he’s been revived? Oh man, that would break my heart. As you can tell, I always jump to the very worst conclusions…apologies.
Direwolf Lvr,
’
I don’t know of any group of people – tribes, countries, civilzations, that did not have some kind of god figure that explained life and death. I think we need to believe that there is more. Not believing that would make some people appreciate life and never harm another human being, and make others say what the hell and do anything they damn well please . Perhaps because Jon knows death, he will be somewhere in the middle
Then again, Jon and Beric were not out that long. Who knows how long it takes to ‘see something’?
I tend to see Kit’s observations as a bit contradictory. For one thing, “oblivion” is not something you “remember”. You either remember “something” or you have no recollection (just as if you were asleep or under anesthesia), i.e. “nothing”.
Darn it got timed out
There is more contradictions – if a god gave him rebirth to Jon re Mel, then how can that god be nothing?
Danny,
J
Yes, exactly
I am loving this discussion btw, so many intelligent people here with varied ideas!
Glad they decided to hold back on the dragonfire- diving Tyrion woulda been kinda lame. I liked the more subtle threat. And besides, what would all the Tyrion Targaryean theorists be doing then??
Jericho Kenobi,
Maester Aemon said to Jon, “Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.”
I agree that “re-birth” is very significant and have always referred to Aemon’s quote while all of the deception was going on. You don’t give that line to the only character to die of old age and not have it mean something of great importance.
Jon has to change a bit in order to lead humanity into the Long Night.
Danielle Stark,
You do hahaha
Hopefully not 🙁
Edit: my pic isn’t there booo
Mihnea,
I don’t know. I think you (Wimsey) make a good point that all of his experiences have changed him and I think I agree that in essentials he won’t change. But death is probably more impactful than falling in love with someone Other, or even being elected as a leader. I think (if it is possible) Jon will become even more serious. And to be honest I expect something slightly unsavory in his character moving forward. A lack of compassion maybe. Because compassion has been one of his defining characteristics. I think it has to be a bigger and more noticeable change.
I keep thinking of a post I read on WIC on Dondarian. It said he forgot things about himself and his life and he was more focused on his mission.
Mihnea,
Thank you! That’s close and yet fundamentally different given the conversation at hand.
There’s also another factor we’re not really considering – we’re discussing how Jon’s death is important to him, to his character, but might there not be external consequences to his resurrection as well? In the trailer we hear Tormund saying that “they think you’re a god” so it seems reasonable that the Wildlings will follow Jon quite devoutly. Might there be another faction that hears about his resurrection and determines that it means trouble? And acts accordingly?
Watching the video, the first thing that comes to mind is what amazing work the CG people are doing. Recreating the dragon’s den, Wun Wun and the wildlings busting into CB…awesome stuff!
Then he would just be Gandalf the White… something GRRM hates. No. Jon has to be less honorable. Less noble. He has to be less. That’s essential to GRRM’s resurrections.
If we get the Jon Snow “we all know and love” then THAT would be pointless. What show have you been watching for 6 years? You don’t improve with death in A Song of Ice and Fire. You lose things. You get worse.
A life of sex, violence, and Decadance as the Paramour and Captain to a powerful and sexy lady is pretty damn good incentive… especially for someone like Daario who’s character is basically a good natured but amoral hedonist.
WTF does he get out of being the “Harpy King” that he doesn’t have already??
It would be so great if next season the dragons become animatronics, the heads at the very last. A show like GoT could pull it off.
GeekFurious,
Nope. Dany is Gandalf. Instead of Eagles she has Dragons. Jon would be Aragorn/Frodo. There’s nothing wrong with having a decent/humane leader among the morally rotten lords and ladies of the 7 Kingdoms. What makes Jon unique is that he tries to be’good’, what makes him stronger is that he tends to go for ‘what is right’ instead of ‘what is easy.’ It is incredibly more difficult to be a good and conscientious human being than it is to be oblivious and self serving. Of course his death and resurrection have to have consequences but those consequences don’t really have to be related to his essence. He DIDN’T choose to come back, he didn’t bargain his soul for another chance, someone else made the decision for him. What was the point? I don’t know: being freed from his until-death vows? Learning not to expect loyalty and decency from others. Being more cautious? I’m not saying that you are wrong, you could be right about him being changed in a negative way but I do hope that is not the case. There are many things that are pointless in life.
GeekFurious,
“, Jon’s personality should be more aggressive, less introspective. I imagine one of the ways to make that clear on the show would be to have him execute the men who betrayed him but not swing the sword himself. That would be VERY telling. That would tell even the laziest of viewers “Oh shit, this is not our Jon.”
BUT how would that mean Jon is more aggressive? I dont follow. Being more aggressive would mean he kills off traitors himself without much internal debate. Why would refraining from swinging the sword be indicative of a less introspective man??
A major thank you to the awesome fan who uploaded the Game Revealed docuseries on Youtube,its a blessing for people who might not have access to HBO’s channels. Please continue to do so for the rest of the episodes. A girl is grateful.
The scene with the Greyjoy bros on the rope bridge deserves all the awards for FX. Incredibly well done.
Yeah i went to England to visit relatives. I have only seen the Harry Potter films in bits and pieces but paid a visit to the Studios/Museum where they have all of the props plus heaps of behind-the-scenes making of videos etc and generally speaking it was great to see all of the sculptures etc
It’s a good balance for films to use practical effects with CGI on the periphery and GoT seems to have found this mix (unlike Star Wars prequel…)
Doing this sort of thing is great, they had that world tour thing which had long lines etc
I can see HBO or whoever being able to set up a Museum in Northern Ireland perhaps when it’s all said and done where if they put a whole heap of these props like the Bridge etc in and making of/behind the scenes videos there it can do quite well
I enjoyed this last night on HBO on demand. I got the biggest kick out of hearing the actor playing Wun Wun actually speak.
No, people still draw things on paper before they animate them. They might draw them on computers now (or with a stylus on a tablet), but the stills precede the animation.
I don’t think that there are any real counterparts to Game of Thrones characters in Lord of the Rings: those are two fundamentally different sorts of stories.
That written, there is no need for Jon to be “less honorable.” For one thing, honor is very subjective: a Stannis Baratheon would argue that allowing the Nationalists to live is less honorable course of action because honor demands punishment for disobedience. Mercy might be nice: but it’s not necessarily “honorable.” There are a lot of people here who seem to want heads to roll: and it is justified by “traitors must pay.” Others of us think that the grander gesture or the more pragmatic tactic would be to spare the Nationalists. But we do not necessarily think that this is “honorable” according to the codes of honor of Westeros.
Whatever else happens, I think that Jon will return a harder man than before. But that could mean a more ruthlessly practical man: and such a man would spare Thorne not out of pity or mercy, but because living Thorne is one more blade cutting down wights, plain and simple. Until we see how Jon reacts to this, he is basically a superball being dropped onto a highly uneven surface: we know that he’s going to bounce, but there are a large number of directions and heights that he could bounce.
BTW, this is available on demand to HBO subscribers on my cable provider as well.