The final season of Game of Thrones is ever closer and by this point you’re all probably waiting for a trailer, if the threads of any and all tweets from the official Thrones and HBO account are anything to go by. I’m afraid we’re not there yet, but we must be pretty close, because HBO just released the traditional character posters for season eight! Also, Twitter emojis for each of the characters, because it’s 2019. So, let’s go! For the Throne!
For this final time, the character posters go full circle, following the familiar pattern of the first season’s marketing campaign, in which we saw our characters, most prominently Ned Stark, sitting on the Iron Throne. For season eight, the posters feature Jon Snow, Daenerys Targaryen, Cersei Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Tyrion Lannister, Arya Stark, Sansa Stark, Bran Stark, Brienne of Tarth, Davos Seaworth, Theon Greyjoy, Euron Greyjoy, Grey Worm, Jorah Mormont, Melisandre, Missandei, Sam Tarly, Varys, Sandor Clegane, and the Night King; all of them on the Iron Throne:
You may notice a few key absences. Though some relatively major characters have never gotten individual posters before, others certainly have. Missing are Bronn, Yara, Tormund, Beric, Gilly, Gendry, and Qyburn, as well as all tertiary characters. Though posters for the likes of Gilly and Qyburn weren’t expected, others have been featured in the marketing for previous seasons, such as Tormund. Does that mean he plays a smaller role, that his life is cut short, or just that there are too many posters already?
As for Twitter’s character emojis, each of the characters featured above got one. You can see them all here, in high resolution, or in the capture below for a quick look:
So this is it! I know we’re all waiting for the trailer, and this is as good a clue as any that it may be coming soon, as the characters posters are usually followed by a trailer soon enough. Keep your eyes peeled, and, meanwhile, enjoy the new costumes!
Hodor!
No trailer still, but I’ll take anything at this point! The Night King is my favorite one. Some look kinda off like Sansa and is Tyrion missing a right hand? Also, no Gendry?
#ForTheThrone
Hodor! These are incredible! Trailer shouldn’t be long now!!
We still need the Season poster.
IMO, Jaime’s and Sansa’s look the best apart from Jon’s and Dany’s, but Bran’s looks absolutely horrible lol.
Tyrion doesn’t have a right hand 😀
Theooon! I’m dead! 🙂
These are all so Incredible I love them.
So Sansa is wearing a fish scale dress for her Tully side, this must of being what Sophie meant by armour it’s a very similar but shinier pattern to the Black Fish’s armour he wore
Season 6 character posters were the same day as the season poster, which released on February 24th, 2016. That was 13 days before the first trailer on March 9th, 2016.
Season 7 character posters released on June 21st, 2017, which was the same day as the second trailer. That was about a month after the season poster and first trailer, which released May 23rd and May 24th, 2017 respectively.
Jack Bauer 24,
It looks like they painted something black over it lol.
The Night King looks amazing on that shot!!!
Theeeeeeon!!! Ehm, sorry, I’m a little excited about that pic! I love Cersei… but can we get Missandei on the throne?
Tyrion just has a clove on the right hand and it is behind that pommel
😀 They don’t seem to be edited though. Helen Sloan said they were shot in Belfast for the #ForTheThrone campaign. https://twitter.com/HelenStills/status/1101128673925697536
I like the one of ASNAWP of course. I had to smile a little to see that even for something like this Maisie was able to give a slight eyebrow raise as if to say something like, “Yeah, I’m sitting on the throne. What’s it to you?”
With so, so many of them included one has to think of those that aren’t, especially since Missandei and Grey Worm were included. There aren’t too many left out… I suppose Tormund, Beric and Yara would be ‘spoilers.’ Then there’s Bronn, Qyburn, Pod and Edd… Please nobody even mention Lyanna M. :/
For a second, I mistook Cersei for King Tommen en travesti! Jaime and the Night King look really gritty in particular and are the most successful. Whatever happened to the Lannister men’s bad blond dye jobs? The rest of them look like doppelgangers. Is this on purpose? I wonder…
A trailer by tomorrow??? Oh, pretty please!
And Gendry, which I think is the most notable exemption. No Gilly either.
Would have been cool to get a Ghost one 😀
Jack Bauer 24,
That may be right, they still look heavily edited though, the lighting in some of them doesn’t seem to match the throne behind them at all.
Gilly crossed my mind but didn’t write it for some reason. I totally forgot Gendry. Ha!
WHY is the King in the North aka Aegon Targaryen aka Jon Snow in the same pose as Ned Stark in the poster for Season 1!?
I’ve no doubt Jon aka Aegon will die (again) this season. I just hope it’s not too predictable.
The photoshop is HEAVY in these posters. Almost to the point it’s cartoonish.
Holy photoshop
Extra Stark, Please,
Exactly, at first I thought that even the IT is just a stock image put behind them sitting in regular chairs lol.
Extra Stark, Please,
Having looked at all of them full screen, I noticed the following:
Dany, Jon, Cersei, Arya, Sansa, Bran Brienne, Melisandre, Messandei, Sam, Varys, Greyworm and Theon all are shot in a very plastic mode as if they are not alive. My initial response was that these characters look like doppelgangers.
Tinfoil, much… maybe.
Like Order:
1. Sansa
2.Daenerys
3.Arya
4.Jon
Bran’s picture is the worst…
No trailer, and the odds are there will be no proper trailer.
I don’t think they can make a spoiler free trailer.
No trailer is better than a spoiler-ish trailer.
6 Weeks to go…
After the long wait, comes the long night !
I love Greyworm’s pose. And I love that Sam has his typical confused expression on his face LOL
They’re all edited to try to create the same theme. What that theme is saying precisely is up for them to explain. To me they all kind of remind me of character avatars in video games – not real but as close to real as the software provides. They’re also reminiscent of painted character portraits.
I love Jon and Dany’s poster along with Arya’s (she greatly resembles Ned in this particular photo). They all look fit for leadership.
We are ever so close to a trailer but I’m happy with this for now!
So I am at work and when I saw this news I screamed so hard everyone turned, and then I started explaining to my collegues that it was because of Game of thrones and they werent very impressed, they think I am crazy, oh well…
Sansa´s outfit has sort of like fish / dragon scales and i am DIGGING IT.
Cersei´s dress is extremely extravagant, she is slowly becoming the Lady Gaga of Westeros LOL.
Also, I am not gonna lie, I got emotional when I saw Daenerys and Jon´s promo sitting on the throne, it made me realize that there can only be one sitting there 🙁
I agree that the photoshopping is weird. Maybe they are intended to be seen in very large, billboard-size format, so maybe the would look as strange?
Loooooooooooove Sansa’s dress. That is my favorite thing of this whole promo!
No trailer, but even crumbs are better than nothing!
The Season 6 character posters were 2 weeks BEFORE the first trailer and the Season 7 character posters were a month AFTER the first trailer, so I don’t think there’s any correlation for when the trailer will drop compared to these character posters.
How about if they melt down (destroy) the conqueror’s war themed throne and create matching king and queen thrones that convey a more peaceful existence? 🙂
They have been displaying them in billboard size in NYC and Toronto
https://twitter.com/GameOfThrones/status/1101135103269457920
Jaime and Tyrion just look exhausted, worse for their wear, like they’ve aged twice as much as everyone else since Jon Arryn was murdered. I’m sure that’s what they’ll look like til the/their end.
The Night King looks the most natural and comfy!
These are not my favorite set of cast photos, but I am sure they will be popular with many others.
Mango,
Again though, Richard Brake’s NK would have been much more wickedly awesome.
This is such a fitting bookend to the S1 poster <3
I’m seeing fake posters on reddit with some of the missing characters. The Hot Pie one is funny.
https://i.redd.it/xq3xaa1kwbj21.jpg
Am I the only one thinking The Hound is the most awesome poster?
Now I want to see him on the iron throne.
Jack Bauer 24,
We have always had a different one for the season? Or there’s a possibility that for example the one for Jon could be the season poster?
Sansa looks A- MAZ- ING…..love that new armor/outfit…love Arya’s little cocked eyebrow like “yeah..its ME b*#$%^ ..I won” lol
anyone else cackle just to see Varys sitting there..and just for one moment think “THATS how it should be” ???
I’ve honestly seen better photoshopping from 20 year old instagram users. What did they put these together when they woke this morning?
Too much dark color in the costumes. I prefer past seasons when there was diversity.
Everyone is commenting on how Jon’s pose matches the old one of Ned. I’m noticing that Arya’s pose has her holding her sword the same way as Jon and Ned while nobody else does it that way. 😀
Shot on set in Belfast by Helen Sloan https://twitter.com/HelenStills/status/1101150795343355904
It was obviously done in an intentional way to create a theme. :/
They all look like they’ve taken the black- which I suppose, in some sense, is true. They are all the shields of men (and women).
Stoked!
I like everyone’s look, when taken individually. All the costumes are great. Cersei’s new costume is particularly awesome.
However, it is slightly annoying that everything is so dark. All costumes are either black, dark brown, dark grey, dark blue, or extremely dark red.
Some more variety would have been nice.
Do characters like Varys, Missandei, or Jorah really need to have such dark attire ? Give some of these people some color !
Am I the only one who thought “Ned’s pose, Robb’s looks” in Jon’s poster?
The upper part of the IT with the GOT logo is stock, which created the wonky looking effect around the characters.
My favourites are Arya (obviously) and Jamie. The Night King poster is pretty cool too, as is Jon’s. I have to agree with those that have said the Photoshopping is a bit too much. I would have preferred a more natural look. Still, very cool posters that call back to the iconic photo of Ned on the throne.
I think the Jon Snow pic that reminds people of Ned Stark will be the season 8 poster.
Ha! Awesome. 🙂 #CookForTheThrone
Nick20,
I’m with you on the dark colors. Hell I remember Cersei’s Kingsguard new armors for last season. Surprise! Black armors!
Honestly. They seem to have forgotten why the NW wears black, the Kingsguard was white or why the Lannisters and Starks colors and looks clash.
No the last two Seasons were in the same style. Season 6 had the Night King poster that was released the same day as the trailer on May 24th, 2017. The character posters came about a month after, but it was the same style.
Season 6 the Season poster released the same day as the character posters. Those were the Hall of Faces posters. The trailer came 13 days after that.
Season 5 had the Tyrion looking at Drogon poster, which was a different style then the character posters. The poster came about a month after the trailer.
So the promo releases have been all over the place.
Thank you, Luka, for a little manna from heaven.
Seriously, they all look like they’ve joined the Nights Watch, and indeed it is the Long Night. And so their watch begins as the show begins to end. ( Deep sigh.)
Meanderiing thoughts: Jaime looks bloody tired and isn’t armed, surprisingly. Sandor’s sword is slender, but it’s not Needle. Arya holds Needle’s hilt just like Jon holds Longclaw’s. I like Sansa’s outfit but it’s distinctly reptilian. The Night King looks most at home on the throne–I hope that’s not foreshadowing!
Jack Bauer 24,
Thanks!
The black clothing reflects the depressing, dark times the people of Westeros are experiencing, as well as the show setting the mood of the viewer to match those of the characters. They’re setting a scene of danger with little hope. A bunch of bright and lively colors even just mixed in can give the viewer a feeling of hope and even a bit of happiness. It’s a very intentional choice for wardrobe. Perhaps for the finale when the wars are over we’ll see a distinct pop in color.
Stark Raven’ Rad,
I thought that Sansa dress was like the Tully’s fish scales armors. But then I think that the color pallette and the lightning don’t do any favors to the costumes.
First impression: Everyone looks regal except for Euron, who looks like a bored, sullen, surly Goth teenager. You just know he wears a black heavy metal band tee-shirt under his doublet, and likes to go out to the neighborhood wooded lot with his friends at night to play at being Satanists, but still expects his mom to make him breakfast when he wakes up at noon.
What jumps out at me – WHY isn’t Jaime holding a sword?
Maybe he gives Widow’s Wail to Pod because Pod’s actually more skilled with a sword now than he his. 😉
Post updated with Ultra-HD versions of the posters. Take another look at those fabulous costumes 😉
Clob,
I disagree with your view. It’s easier to convey gloom, sadness and despair with dark colors. Yet it can also be perfectly done with brighter tones without looking out of place.
Take TLOR for example. The elves armors, costumes and sets are richly colored. Yet they did it in a way that made them melancholic, out of place in the world as something that is fading. It was such a brilliant contrast to the equal colorful but happy and bright The Shire.
I personally would have liked this route more.
Definitely not the only one. For a heartbeat I thought I was looking at Richard Madden from an earlier season. And the pose is iconic S1 Ned for sure.
Cersei’s Brain,
Because Gendry hasn’t forged one onto his shiny golden hand yet! (Which is featured prominently in the shot)
The combover is not a flattering look for Ser Jorah. And in the era of the Orange Tyrant, it could provoke interpretations of symbolism that was likely not intended.
Firannion,
I was reminded of that promo of S1 with flashes of everyone sitting on the throne. Didn’t the rumors say that Richard did Kit’s part because he wasn’t available?
Clob,
WHERE DO I SIGN?
Well, you’re welcome to that opinion and feeling on the matter. I don’t have a problem with what they’re doing and believe it most clearly conveys the setting they’re trying to achieve.
Arya channeling Ned big-time! I’m surprised at how many characters they’ve done posters for this year. Dany looks amazing and those gloves…! They really did Jaime dirty, wow.
Jorah’s is the best.
Like others have said, I’m not a fan of how much they’ve been edited, but oh well. Cersei looks like she’s had fillers.
The Hound on the throne! That’s amazing. Also check out Bran looking like a level 120 Mage. Very nice posters.
Since you brought them up I’ll mention the scene I’m hoping for, yet doubtful will happen. That being a scene where Melisandre and a bunch of red priests and priestesses show up at Winterfell with the Fiery Hand. The Fiery Hand being 1,000 soldiers that will all be dressed in elaborate red and gold armor.
Holy moly! I absolutely love all of these – even the photoshopped high-gloss fashion look to them. It’s otherworldly, and I can’t stop looking at them.
I really love the symmetry between Ned S1 and Jon. But Ned is all hang-dogged and reluctant, while Jon looks determined and ready to face the challenge of saving the realm. Must be nice to have the Red Woman Cadillac Healthcare Plan. Bring it.
You can also put me squarely on #teamDark&Broody b/c I don’t think too much color would work in their costumes. This has a viking feel to it, that seems especially necessary given the setting and the threat.
Firannion,
Lol. Yeah, but though Jorah’s armor is looking battered- it is still cool, not going to jail, and it has not giving testimony to all the terrible wrongdoings of the one it’s job is to protect.
Ok. That’s a reach.
Clob,
I expect the filtering on most of the camera work to reflect that this season, as well. I don’t think we’ll see sunny dorne. Hopefully KL begins to look dreary well before the AOTD descend upon it…
Love them but does Jamie not look a bit bobbleheaded to anyone else? haha
Clob,
Did the Fiery Hand get mentioned in the series?
I find ironic that the remaining living dragons are the black and green.
I would expect Night King to destroy The Iron Throne into pieces, not to sit on it.
JenStar Runner,
Love the handle! Blast from the past.
Always loved strongmad. Meedly meedly meedly…
I hope, the last season is better done than all these posters!
Not yet that I can recall. Mention of FH in the books is also very limited of course. I’ve just been thinking that Melisandre has to bring at least some people back from Volantis, right? It would seem a little pointless to travel all the way there and back otherwise. In my mind’s eye I’m just trying to make her return be something really good and unexpected.
Was so funny. I work at a tech co. with the same guys I did back in the 90s. We still crack Homestar Runner jokes.
So, HBO2 is randomly showing the first episode of the first season tomorrow night at 9pm EST. There doesn’t appear to be any other episodes being aired within the next couple of weeks though. It seems strange that they would just show one random episode like that. It makes me wonder if we’ll get the trailer tomorrow night when the episode airs.
The character posters are a big promo release, so I think they’ll space out the trailer a bit more. The trailer is the main thing left and premiere is 45 days. I think the trailer will be somewhere between March 5th and the 14th.
No Gendry?
Clob,
In the scene where Bran, Meera, and Jojen have been tied up by the rebellious Night’s Watchmen, at Craster’s, Jojen has a vision of a hand on fire.
Did anyone else notice that everyone who is considered a worrier, is pictured with their weapon. Except Jaime? Where is his Valerian steel sword? Now look at the swords that the Hound and Jorah are holding. They are smaller and different.
No. You’re not the only one.
The expression on his face is perfect. The poster could be captioned:
(a) “F*ck off”; or
(b) “F*ck the King. Oh, wait…”
Am I the only one who noticed that the kraken sigil has been torn or cut away from Theon’s breastplate? His armor was dinged up in S6 and he didn’t really wear it in S7 but it’s clear that his house sigil is missing. You can see the metal underneath the cut/torn leather.
——-
Right. After all the babbling by Melisandre and Kinvara about the Dead rising in the North and the imminent “Great War”, it’d be kind of silly if the only Lord of Light disciples traveling north to combat the AotD are… Beric, Thoros, agnostic Sandor, and a handful of other BwoB guys, while the red priestesses luxuriate in Volantis in their glam red gowns.
If you ask me, they should’ve mobilized a long time ago. Beric & Co. were already on their way north by S6e8 when they recruited Sandor.
As far back as S2e1, Melisandre was spouting the “Warrior of Light” prophecy:
“… After the long summer, darkness will fall heavy on the world. The stars will bleed. The cold breath of winter will freeze the seas – and the dead shall rise in the North.
In the ancient books, it is written that a warrior will draw a burning sword from the fire. And that sword shall be Lightbringer….”
P.S. I’m a “pre-books” show-only fan. In a nutshell, who or what is the “Fiery Hand” described as in the books? I’ve never heard that term referred to until today.
I echo others comments that these photos are waaaay over photoshopped. Grey Worm isn’t even recognisable. Sansa looks just stunning though!
What does this mean in terms of us getting any form of trailer? I’m sure I read somewhere that the poster artist were told that the posters wouldn’t be released in March, after the trailer had dropped, as HNO didn’t want to detract attention from the artwork.
Are we seriously only getting that tiny clip from the weekend? 😱
They’re essentially the soldiers/guards of R’hllor. This is the description on awoiaf:
Everyone in Black… Their moods seem to match the colors. There will be little joy in this final season, except maybe at the end. Maybe even not then either….
Ten Bears,
The Fiery Hand are 1000 warriors who protect the great temple of Rhollor in Volantis. This is the biggest temple of that religion in the world and it dwarfs the Great Sept of Baelor.
There was some leaked footage that may be connected to them thought.
One of the Create for the Throne artists said HBO wanted to hold off posting the artists creations until sometime in March since the fans are focused on the trailer and they don’t want that to detract from the creations. That was in reference to the artist creations not these character posters, which are official HBO material. People are assuming the trailer is coming soon because of the hold on the create campaign.
https://twitter.com/noone10247583/status/1097743414936797185
Clob,
Interesting. Red Temple High Priestess Kinvara, in S6e5, told Tyrion and Varys that “Daenerys has been sent to lead the people against the darkness in this war and in the great war still to come.”
Might be a good time for some of those 1,000 Fiery Hand soldiers to help out now. “The Great War is here.” – J. Snow, S7e7.
Ten Bears,
I would suggest caution treating with R’hollor fanatics. They’re as bad as the Faith Militant. And worse, they have magic powers.
Just for you, talvikorppi. An Arya Super Ninja Warrior Queen 👸🏻 S8 poster. You must be delighted.
https://watchersonthewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/6.-Arya-Stark-GOT-Season-8-For-The-Throne-Character-Poster-min.jpg
I really like the way they turned up the sharpness on these, really gives them that cool, gritty look. Nice!!
Also, let’s talk about the weapons here…. Grey Worm with a dagger, yes much more practical than a spear.
AND, what are those weapons that Jorah and the Hound are holding? Could they be made from Dragon Glass???
Poor Grey Worm. The photos hop makes his face look like a bad done CGI.
King in the North East,
You know, as much as I like the Sandor poster, I thought there was something off about it.
I realized that especially compared to the posters for Jon, Theon, and Brienne, for some reason Sandor is NOT wielding “a big f*cking sword.”
Add me to the camp that loves these! It does bookend (sob!) the Season 1 posters, as Anguissette1979 said above and adds to the whole ???? of the ending. It’s hard to believe in just a few months, we’re going to know what happens with all this and at that point, these posters will mean something so different…
This! I love this! 🙂 It kind of drove home to me that an armour-dress for Sansa makes sense, combatant or non-combatant – with war against zombies, you can never be too careful 😉
I wish I could make an armour-dress for my heart 😭
I loved this too XD
KCdeb,
Oh, maybe you’re right and Sandor’s holding a dragonglass weapon… or whatever flaming sword he happens to pull out of a fire in S8.
I think it’s partly the lighting, but… Comparing pommels and guards to old photos, the one Jorah has appears to be his usual sword. Sandor has gone through a few swords. This one has a different pommel than the one he used when fighting Brienne and both are different than the last one we saw him with at the Dragonpit. So, true to form, Sandor doesn’t really give a shit what sword he uses. 🙂
Oh dear, Jon doesn’t look very happy does he?
Love the crimson in Cersei & Jaime’s looks.
…. Not real sure how I feel about these posters.
A) I’m excited they are putting out stuff for the new season but
B) some of these look like I jumped out there with my circa ’04 Razr (yall know the one!) cell phone and took the pictures myself.
Originally I typed StarTAC phone but then I remembered those badboys didn’t even have cameras
Further observations:
– Cersei’s the only one who looks like going to war is making her younger rather than more haggard. The throat inset of her bodice suggests a spine and ribs, as if there is a wight lurking underneath that fresh youthful face.
– Tyrion is still Hand, so no treachery as yet.
– Sansa’s Tully fishscale look could pass for a Klingon uniform.
– Bran’s fur-trimmed robe reminds me of Maester Luwin.
– Brienne looks like a Tarot card. Could be the Emperor, Justice or the King of Swords.
Did anyone notice Tyrion missing a hand?!
Firannion,
Brienne IS a tarot card. She is Strength in the Game of Thrones Tarot Deck. Very appropriate!
Lots of people have been commenting on that. It’s just difficult to see or hidden because he has it placed on the armrest and that side of the throne has obstructions (sword pommels) sticking up higher than the other.
Oh my, I’m loving Cersei’s and Sansa’s outfits! Fantastic! Also, I didn’t read any of the comments yet so not sure if this was brought up… but the fact that the promotion is to have characters sit on the Throne, and part of it is to have Twitter users choose their own character emojis…. I’m really getting the vibe that they’re just going to pull the rug out from under us and that there actually will be no throne by the end of the series (my one hope for the show). The GoT ad campaign is pushing the fandom more towards this assumption that someone will sit on the throne, when in fact, there will be none.
I know I know, there probably won’t be a complete abolition of the monarchy and full transition to some proto-democracy but I really want that Iron Throne to be destroyed in a literal sense but also for the symbol it has become. Especially after all the “commonfolk” have suffered because of wars that have taken place #ForTheThrone.
Clob,
Could be but even more ominous as Pod is missing…
I clicked on Missandei’s picture and she looks so young. She has new hair with a braided bandeau around the front.
All the women look amazing, with Cersai spectacular in red. Dany is killing it and looks like she belongs on that there throne. Arya looks great but I wish they’d given her something new, but I do like her poncho? She’s not the kind of character to fuss over clothes, anyway. Sansa looks good, but it’s essentially the same belted tunic. I get it, they can’t diverge too much from the styles in the rest of the series.
They’ll probably let folks fawn over these for a few days before any kind of trailer gets released.
I love the posters and the costumes are amazing. I”m not going to read too much into them as I know HBO is hyping up the season and I doubt they’d give anything away too easily at this point.
Another version of Tyrion’s that appears to have fixed the hidden hand by digitally removing throne pieces and adding the hand in view:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BubgJi9AYxN/
Jon has the manner of a wolf sizing up a threat or prey…awesome.
Jaime’s golden hand is featured prominently – perhaps it will be a fiery hand weapon once Mel arrives? or it could just be a reminder of what he’s been through and what he’s given up.
Couple of things:
What Does the Lettering/Roman Numerals on Cersei’s outfit Symbolize, if anything…..hhmmmmm?
Why is Tyrion wearing a Glove only on one hand?
Jorah and The Hound Clearly have normal swords, they are just turned sideways correct?
Anyone think that Sansa’s outfit could be one that she made of Dragonglass? She has been making custom outfits the entire series right? What if she designs this and ultimately uses it while sacrificing herself and kills the NK? Stupid Theory but a thought i had when I zoomed in on it. LOL
Lastly, more of an opinion, but I think there is a deeper meaning with them leading with the Jon Snow picture, and the way it resembles Neds.
Except i believe that they purposefully had him looking right at the cameraas opposed to Ned looking away, as if to say, “I will have a different outcome to my story. I am prepared and ready to face this challenge ahead by any means. Bring on all the NK has to offer and I will be KING.”
Even if it means pulling a burning sword out of the Flames( a burning Queen Dany) to Form Light Bringer perhaps?
Iul,
They will make a trailer lol. Everyone suggesting that HBO won’t make a trailer that is easily viewed tens of millions of times and breaks the internet isn’t being realistic. Of course there will 110% be a trailer, HBO is just being savage about delaying it as long as they can.
Euron’s was the best.
Euron is the best.
The wait for season 7 was way more fun.
The photoshop guy seems to be drunk. I noticed none of them really lean on the throne. I know it’s supposed to be uncomfortable, but it does make some of them look like dopplegangers/not much exhibiting their characters.
I can see at least Euron or Cersei could interact more with the chair props and shows more of their characters.
I guess the throne is photoshopped and or they actually sit on some backless chair.
I know that complaining about the official season poster is a time-honored GOT fan tradition, but the character posters have generally been pretty great, and these are no exception. Yes, it would be nice to have characters like Gendry, Tormund, Gilly and Beric represented as well (Lightning Lord fanboy that I am, a Beric poster would have gone on my wall immediately), but the ones we got are pretty damn sweet! I particularly like the Jon one (it’s the most reminiscent of the iconic Season 1 poster of Ned Stark), the Cersei one, the Jaime one, the Sansa one, the Night King and oddly enough, the Missandei one …
The idea had honestly never even crossed my mind until I saw this image – and obviously it’s never going to happen – but you know what? I could get behind Missandei for Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. She’d be kind, she’d be fair, and she’d be awesome at international diplomacy. She has no claim? When has that ever mattered? Let’s do this!
Spent way too long fawning over these images and admiring the detailing on the costumes. Michele Clapton and her team are wondrous. I am so beyond impressed by the intricate little details they have poured into these costumes. Hats off to them! I was particularly impressed by Daenerys and Cersei’s outfits – the detail on those is incredible.
All in all, I love these posters. The art style they have gone for was jarring at first, but after staring at them for much longer, I have come to ignore the odd plastic-faced painterly style.
My favourites are mostly the women’s. Love Daenerys’, Brienne’s and Arya’s particularly. Love Arya’s expression and I agree with other commenters who have noticed she looks a lot like Ned in this picture (which is impressively achieved as IRL, I wouldn’t say Maisie is like Sean Bean). Can’t not love Jon’s one, as I don’t think I could ever not love a poster about him (even the splattered in blood one because, you know, it’s Jon!), but his expression and pose are particularly appealing – NK, watch your back, this guy means business.
Yes, GOT costuming, I see you have Jaime with longer hair finally. He is the only character with re-styled hair.
For the last few seasons, he had a short cut with a very short fringe at the front. This season his has much longer hair in the front, down to his eyes. Much nicer for wearing a crown – yes, yes.
You also gave Cersei her first fringe, a nice long one, when she was to wear a crown. And Joffrey and Tommen were also styled with long fringes. You are very consistent – Lannister kings were fringes, don’t they?
King Jaime, Golden Hand the Just.
(No responses about death in anyone’s arms are welcome)
Rather than introducing the Fiery Hand, the red priests could just hire the Golden Company away from Cersei
Clob,
Looked to me on first glance that Sandor is holding the same sword as Jorah, just tilted for the shot so the pommel doesn’t make it too obvious. Maybe they just had one extra prop for the photo shoot.
At the winterfell festival last year, the lead armorer was there (I got to hold one of the two Ice greatswords they made for production). He let us in on a production secret. There are two of each of the named swords for production, while they mass produced hundreds of what look like Jorahs and Sandor’s. The secret: the pommels used were just cabinet door knobs they found at a common UK hardware store…
Clob,
I don’t know. Sandor’s sword looks like a king-sized version of Needle, without the hilt.
Sister Kisser,
Ten Bears,
If you look close enough you can see the crossguard on the sword held by Sandor. And yes, it´s the same as ser Jorah. The only difference between them are the pommels.
Sister Kisser,
Ten Bears,
If you open the large size photos and zoom in you can see they’re different. Jorah’s appears to have multi-faced pommel that he’s always used. Sandor’s has some kind of design etched into the pommel. It’s different than Jorah’s but it’s also unlike previous swords he’s used. It could be just some random sword..? Like I mentioned though, we’ve seen him use several different weapons during the series, including a regular old wood axe. ☺
Clob,
I miss Clegane’s Brothers two handed swords.
And I still feel cheated by the Tower of Joy fight. I wanted greatsword Ice vs greatsword Dawn.
Eonwe,
Clob,
Yeah, I was mistaking Jorah for Theon- his looks more like Sandor’s- but now that I’m home looking on a larger screen I can see that I was wrong and they are clearly different. Each pommel is different, and the handles as well.
Interesting to see the Night King up there. It’s never been clear what they want, why they’re coming south. Maybe it’s as simple as the NK thinks he should be in charge.
Jon looks like he has two black eyes.
Couple things I noticed. Jaime should be holding Widow’s Wail. Euron should be holding his battle axe. Gendry & his axe should have had a poster. Also Cersei doesn’t look sinister or arrogant enough. She almost looks too happy. And Jon looks like a regular fucking badass.
I want to know what it took to make Sansa’s dress. Holy cow. I wasn’t able to look at a full hi res shot on a big screen till now (boo hiss work IT for blocking WotW as a “game” site). But getting the large close up confirms to me that those are not scales, fish, dragon or otherwise. They’re feathers rendered in leather, bluntly cut and creased like the vanes. Look at the image and then look at the bodice of the main dress she wore in season 7. The bodice was covered in rows of clipped black feathers stitched down with bone-colored thread. The Tully scales are smooth and rounded. Dany’s dragon scales in her clothing are diamond-shaped.
Tyrion’s non-hand: production goof, bad shot or foreshadowing? Because there is something coming out of his sleeve. It’s just not clear what. And there is some foreshadowing in these posted. Exhibit Theon’s torn off kraken (glad to see ya, buddy).
Make way for King Samwell, First of His Name.
NinaD,
Exactly. I thought about feathers at the first glimpse and thought that Sansa was turning into a full Mockingbird. Looks worrying.
As for Theon’s torn-off karken, the new shape reminds me of the Lord’s of Light heart symbol. A hint that Theon will convert to his faith? That would be interesting.
Night King’s poster is the best. The general dark mood suits him well.
Jon and Daenerys also look cool.
Cersei’s and Sansa’s outfits are so intricate. It must have been a great effort to make them.
What I didn’t like is that the majority of characters look like dolls and there should be a greater variety of colours.
First of His Name,
That’s so funny because my initial reaction to Sansa’s dress reminded me of Dragonglass as well rather than fish scales. But logistically speaking, I’m not sure how she would be able to make a dress out of it.
Whoa, are saying this isn’t all a dream Jojen Reed had during a nap at Greywater Watch after a lunch of salami and Hershey bars???
Does Gendry’s Absence mean he will be king? Not seen much so far in the series to suggest he would be a good ruler though!
Wow 140 comments already on this, am the only one not overly bothered? I don’t think we can read anything into who features although it does confirm the return of Melisandre which was fairly expected anyway.
Still I think we are getting the trailer next week now, clearly won’t come this week as we’ve already had a teaser and now some posters.
To be honest the Night King looks more fitting on the iron throne than anyone else lol. Are we meant to pick up on that vibe? Hmm. The AOTD is victorious? Well I noticed some of them have weird eyes (Jon, Dany, Jorah, Theon, Euron) and others look normal (Sansa, Arya, Melissandre, Davos, Brienne, Jamie.)
Freyjoy,
I don’t have an emotional connection to character of Gendry. He hasn’t had enough screen time or been fleshed out enough to make an impact for me one way or another. I wonder how many others, besides fan girls, would be happy if it played out that way.
David,
Well yes. Anything with 5 seconds of footage from season 8 will break the internet. I also think they will release a trailer, but it will not be the one we expect.
Interesting, the clothes’ colour of Danerys, Cersei and Jamie are the same whereas Tyrion’s is different…I always thought Tyrion was the one the Mad King fathered but now looking at the posters I may be wrong. The real son of Tywin Lannister was after all the son he hated the most. I also noticed the order of the posters, from the one with highest claim to the throne to the one with less. And who is next to Daenerys, Cersei and Jaime and then Tyrion.
Tyrion – I thought his gloved hand was hidden behind the chair’s hardware and that he was displaying one hand as he is the Hand. He starts the season as the “pretender” Hand and ends as the real Hand. He had good odds as ending as the King. But I think he ends as Hand to his brother.
Sansa – Look at that dress. Sansa moves to a powerful role. Another candidate for Queen. I think she ends as Warden on the North. And perhaps wife to the Hand. (Nope I do not think the geography is too complicated.)
Brienne – Looking very groomed. Her clothing looking sparkly for the first time? It looks like chainmail in that elaborate sparky pattern. She has also moved up in life. Either ruling Tarth or wife to Jaime.
Daenerys also had the reddish tinge of Cersei and Jaime have in their clothing. I have no idea what means. The woven patterns that Tyrion have may reflect his role in integrating several fractions. But the common tinge – no idea. All real or pretend sovereigns?
Sam looks startled. Jon looks stuffed. Mel and Missy, elegant.
NK looks like he belongs in that chair.
I love Jon’s confident pose and determined look. I just hope it doesn’t mean he’s done for at the end.
Dany almost looks like her hands are dripping blood. All her outfits in Season 8 have red detail, looking like blood is sipping through.
And I agree that Sansa’s dress is made of feathers, not scales. That’s quite a sharp change in look for her overall. Quite a severe black, no Stark soft grey details. It probably signifies a big change in her character ark.
Won’t be the one we expect?
Only way the NK belongs up there is if he’s Rhaegar, according to one of my Alcan theories.
It was a crazy thought i had after really looking at her outfit. I mean Why not. If she knows that Dragonglass is an item that can kill/defend agains the WW or NK, then hey. But all in all it’s probably Fish Scales haha
I’m really puzzled by that Sansa outfit. It looks like charcoal, burned tree back and feathers. Then she has that kind of criss-crossed leather harness reminiscent of Team Dragon.
I feel that they try to force her into grandeur not, thus far, supported by the writing, or the acting.
I wonder if Quaithe might pop up again as part of Mel’s entourage. It’s odd that they introduced her with a couple of early-seasons scenes, teased us about her magical powers and then dropped her altogether. Book!Quaithe has no apparent link to the R’hllor religion IIRC, but show!Quaithe’s mask is made of the same six-sided links as Mel’s necklace. Since she goes masked, they could easily use a different actress to play her in S8, so we wouldn’t necessarily be tipped off by the cast lists.
Mia,
Great observations! I will point out- in the books, Tyrion has one purple eye. In the show, he likes his bacon black, and Tywin “cannot prove” that he’s not his son. Subtle hints.
When did Tywin resign from his post as hand? I don’t recall, but I think that will tell us more.
Doubtful any of this will make the show. Really like what you said about the order of photos relating to claim for the throne.
Anon,
Not sure what Alcan is, but I am loving all the crazy theories floating around (still treading carefully though for risk of stumbling across real spoilers).
I had that thought about Rhaegar/NK after the teaser came out and I thought the statues in the crypt reminded me of Aegon and his sisters. Only question is- what happened to Rhaegar’s body after his fall on the Trident?
I was just thinking they should have shown Cersei clearly pregnant just to mess with us (even if she never will show during the season). She told Jaime she’s pregnant in 7×05 roughly around the same time Tyrion and Davos snuck into KL. Quite a bit of time should have passed by the time we pick back up in the premiere. I know we haven’t gotten much yet but if we don’t see anything where we can tell she’s pregnant isn’t that a bit of a hint that she has a miscarriage, or that she lied about it to start with?
Sister Kisser,
Tywin resigned before the Tourney of Harrenhall when Aerys let him know that Jaime would enter the kingsguard.
I would love if that were the case, I don’t really believe that they will go there but if it were true that would be really cool 🙂
I’m a bit worried about the ‘suprise ending’ everyone keeps talking about. In order for a plot twist to be believable there need to be enough hints throughout the narrative and the storytelling in the last season or so hasn’t been overly convincing in that regard (one must only think of the Sansa, Arya, Littlefinger storyline). But if this were the suprise I would be very pleased indeed!
I’ll read all the comments tonight, but my first reaction is that most look way too Photoshopped, not gritty as anything GoT-related ought to. I hate how plastic fashion ads look nowadays, and these are a tad too plastic. Then again, maybe I’m just having a bad morning.
No, you’re right. They do look “too plastic.” In fact, at first glance Jorah looked like a wight.
On the bright side, even though the article was titled “Character Posters (and Twitter Emojis) for Game of Thrones Season 8 Released!”, the photograph right below it was a nice capture of a frame from the recent HBO teaser of Arya smiling as she sees a dragon.
I can’t help but think that Jon, off-screen, must’ve shared with Dany his anticipation of seeing his beloved little sister again; and Dany will be anxious to get in good with Jon’s family for personal and political purposes.
Adding in the show-only scene of Arya with Tywin professing her admiration for dragon-riding Targaryen women; and the likelihood that someone will convey Dany’s heroics in rescuing the Snow Patrol at the Frozen Lake, and my fanfic scenario of Dany offering to take Arya for a spin on Drogon isn’t so far-fetched anymore.
Drogon will likely recognize Arya as one of the “flock” and beckon her to climb aboard…
Alcan brand foil.
I wonder that, too. I think I read that people were scooping up the ‘rubies’ that fell out of his armor? It makes sense for a usurper to retrieve the bodies of all the commanders in a battle, right? If only to reassure him/herself that they are really dead and to dispose of the body in secret to wipe out their memory. Did they leave his body to rot in the Trident? Did the water carry the body downriver?
I went back to watch Robert telling his war stories with Barristan, Jaime and Lancel present in the room. I’d always wondered what this scene is about, really. He starts by saying “Yes, it’s been a long time, but I still remember ever face”. He’s talking about his kills. He goes on to tell about his first kill, a Tarly highborn boy. Surely, Robert also remembers his arch enemy, Rhaegar’s face! And if he remember’s that boy’s last words, then surely he remember’s Rhaegar’s words, also.
It makes me think of how old soldiers embellish their past deeds to seem more heroic. Nedd and Howland definitely did this, with the fight at the Tower of Joy. So, I wonder if the Trident history is accurate as told by Nedd and Robert.
In the war story scene, we have two kingsguards, one of which killed a king, and Robert who killed a prince and Lancel who will help kill a king. I take it the scene is about the dishonour surrounding the killing of kings….and their heirs. It’s about the last words of kings. We also find out that Robert is haunted by his victims faces, presumably including Rhaegars. I get the feeling that Robert thought his position was tainted, somehow. He really couldn’t relish being king, and drank himself to death because of the ugly way it all went down.
There is only one way we’ll find out the truth at this point, as all the witnesses are dead, Bran… and Sam.
Anyway, I’m kind of rambling… but I think there is a coherent idea in there, somewhere.
Anon,
According to Young Ned in the ToJ flashback scene in S6e3, Rhaegar’s body “lies beneath the ground”:
Young Ned: “The Mad King is dead. Rhaegar lies beneath the ground. Why weren’t you there to protect your prince?”
Arthur Dayne: “Our prince wanted us here.”
Ten Bears,
Dragons don’t let other people mount them on their own when they have a rider (Joffrey Velaryon send his regards). So no, Drogon wouldn’t let Arya climb him unless Daenerys is mounting him, Daenerys is dead and Arya became against Canon it’s new rider… or someone so powerful wargs into Drogon and let’s her mount.
I would think the red and blue tones represent Fire and Ice?
And Sansa dress looks like oiled fur to me. Dire wolf fur maybe.
Just my thoughts 🙂
Eonwe,
Right. If Dany’s the pilot, Arya could climb aboard. He’d be happy to have her along for the ride. If, as Tyrion showed, dragons can distinguish friends from foes, Drogon would recognize Arya as one of Jon’s “flock.”
Would Dany finally have the common sense to saddle Drogon?
Brandy,
Interesting idea about the oiled fur – never thought of that. It makes more sense than scales given her role at WF, not Riverrun.
And I hope blue is not “ice” representation. Bran and the NK are the most “blue” in their photos.
Oh yes! That just slipped my attention! So, according to Nedd somebody buried Rhaegar and Nedd presumably was present at the burial… if he is to be believed.
Hmmm… I wonder where Robert or Nedd buried a prince.
Supposedly George has said that Rhaegar was cremated per Targaryen tradition. *shrug*
… and ya know, according to Osha, white walkers aren’t dead, they lay beneath the ground sleeping… *cackle*
So there’s no definitive answer on what happened to Rhaegar’s body.
And Sansa is wearing chains – does this reflect her status as the “key” to the north? (Key on a chain?) She was often referred to as such earlier in GOT.
(Cersei’s chains are either decorative as jewellery or as a medallion for queens worn ceremonially.)
My cable guide says that the episode is now airing from 9pm EST to 10:25pm EST. That’s an hour and 25 minutes to cover an episode that’s only 62 minutes. Unless they screwed up the guide, which is certainly possible, something’s gotta be up.
On the other hand, it doesn’t take an extra 23 minutes to show a 2 minute trailer, so I don’t know what’s going on. I still find it strange that HBO2 is randomly showing season 1 episode 1 tonight during a timeframe that covers more time than is needed to air the episode itself.
Anon,
The answer came from George himself. So I would take it unless upcoming books say another thing.
Eonwe,
Ah, yes. That’s right. And tyrion was already a child by this point, yes? So much for the idea that Tywin bounced because Aerys raped his wife….
Or perhaps this references Cersei calling her Little Dove and the Hound calling her Little Bird. I can even recall some theorizing in book-focused groups that Sansa will not be able to warg direwolves on account of the early death of Lady, but that she will later develop the ability to warg birds.
Cue the San/San shippers!
Ten Bears,
That’s funny- I just watched that scene again last night after someone mentioned being robbed of Dawn. Instead, we got two normal swords bein wielded by the greatest swordsman Ned ever saw….
I think his line about Rhaegar being “buried in the ground” could just as easily be interpreted as colloquial for “dead” as it can be taken literally. Was Ned at the trident?
Sister Kisser,
A World of Ice and Fire tell us that indeed, Aerys made Jaime Kingsguard as the supreme slight against Tywin. Because he deprived Tywin of his priced heir and instead left him with the malformed dwarf as heir. To add insult to the injury back then Tywin was negotiating an important marriage proposal for Jaime and the naming of Jaime as KG made Tywin look like a fool.
I don’t think that Aerys raped Joanna. She spent her time in Casterly Rock, not KL. And furthermore, in ADWD Genna says that Tyrion is Tywin’ son,that Jaime is a mix of Joanna, Tygett and Gerion.
Sister Kisser,
Yes he was. Ned took command of the vanguard of the Rebel army and went to King’s Landing ahead because Robert couldn’t ride due to the injuries Rhaegar inflicted him.
That is a bit odd. Keep us updated.
Sansa’s dress seems pretty obviously fish-scaly to me. Her belt buckle even has an ichthys shape to it.
Makes me wonder when and why she might feel the need to accentuate her Tully heritage.
In the teaser, pictures etc that we’ve seen so far, she appeared to still be wearing her Season 7 Northern garb, so it’s intriguing.
Jack Bauer 24,
I think the answer is that the tv guide screwed it up. They had the finale of True Detective as 1 hr and then Game of Thrones for 1 hr 25 minutes. They should’ve reversed it.
Ah I see. Whenever they drop the trailer it’ll probably be earlier in the day anyway during the week I’m thinking. We shall see. The 14th will be 30 days until the premiere, so hopefully sometime by then.
Eonwe,
Yeah, that is serious strong-arming on Aerys’ part. I knew that his appointing him to the Kingsguard (at such a young age no less, which makes sense given Tywin’s marriage arrangements) was intended as a slight- but I had my chronology all wrong. I thought Tywin resigned years prior to Jaime’s appointment (like, following the birth of the twins, it tyrion) and that Jaime’s appointment was Aerys getting back at one of only two hands he let go of alive…
This breakdown makes more sense.
Also- it Joanna had been raped, and that the offspring were indeed Aerys’- are we certain that Genna would know? In other words, are we sure she isn’t just surmising what she sees to be Jaime’s inherited traits, and who to attribute them to, without knowing what would likely be a very well kept secret?
Eonwe,
There are no Targs left at this point, right? Imagine the series of events that would have to occur for Rhaegar’s remains to be turned over to his people and be ‘cremated’. Unless he’s saying that the rebels cremated the prince. Why would they? Robert hated the Targs. I could see him burning the body and not cremating it, which sounds like a respectful ceremony observing Targ traditions.
Far as I know, Only Aemon Targaryen remained at the Wall who would care to observe Targ traditions. Do you think they sent the remains to Aemon at the Wall? There was no one else because even the Royalist fighters fled when Rhaegar fell on the battlefield, no? Who would be brave enough to come forward and declare himself a Targ loyalist and claim Rhaegar’s remains? This is the sort of thing family would do, after much negotiation; but there wasn’t any family left except Aemon.
I almost never google this stuff, but I just did and what an eyeopener to see folks asking the same questions about Rhaegar’s body. Then on one forum, someone mentions what Joffrey told Margery when he gave her a tour of the Sept. Joff pointed out the graves of the Targaryens and said that his father didn’t want them buried there. According to Joffrey, Robert wanted the bodies burned and thrown into the Blackwater but the Septon convinced him otherwise. Joffrey rattled off the names of some Targs and ended at the mad king, but he doesn’t say Rhaegar’s name!
I’ve got to rewatch that one, but I wonder what the show was trying to tell us. There’s definitely a mystery surrounding the fate of Rhaegar’s remains… that is if we accept that he did die.
As I said above, who would take custody of his body? Would that be the KL High Septon? Or would it be family like I suggest above? Would an enraged Robert fish Rhaegar’s waterlogged body from the Trident, burn it and throw it back into the Trident? He was injured, right?
No one seems to have proof that George did indeed say what happened to Rhaegar’s body. And even If I accept that the body was ‘cremated’, then who performed the ceremony and where are the ashes?
Anon,
https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Asshai.com_Forum_Chat/
There you have George telling Rhaegar was cremated.
You give me shivers <3
Eonwe,
It’s interesting that you allow for the author writing something else in a future book even after he has – presumably – already said that Rhaegar’s body was ‘cremated’. You aren’t accepting the author’s word; why are you telling me to?
The question is, if the mad king’s body was buried in the Sept – presumably his ashes after cremation – then why isn’t Rhaegar’s body/ashes there also?
Cremation suggests a respectful observation of Targ custom. Who is the person that took custody of Rhaegar’s body and performed this funeral rite? And where were the ashes placed?
What about Nedd’s words that Rhaegar was beneath the ground. If it isn’t a euphemism for ‘dead’ and he does mean literallly buried, then where is Rhaegar buried? Is Nedd just mistaken, or is he lying, or is he repeating what he has been told?
Robert was so crazed with hatred of Targs that he wanted to dis-inter the remains of Targs already buried in the Sept, burn them again and dump them into the Blackwater. What would Robert’s off-the-scale contempt for Rhaegar cause him to do to the man’s remains?
The show emphasizes how people die and where/how they are buried. Over and over we are shown funeral rites. It’s pecualiar that there is a gap in Rhaegar’s fate.
This is a story where bodies get dumped into rivers and wind up coming back to life. If there is any gap in the custody of a notable character’s remains, then it’s right to question if that person is in fact dead and buried….like the past.
From what I’ve read some people actually take Genna’s words as further proof for the theory that Jaime and Cersei might be Aerys’. Since Genna explicitly names Tyrion as Tywin’s son whereas when she talks about Jaime she likens him to his mother (who was Tywin’s cousin) and other members of the family.
Anon,
Because George can change his mind with The Winds of Winter or A Dream of Spring. It has happened before and it can happen enough. So for now we must take what he said about Rhaegar’s.
As for the lack of details. My take is that is not relevant enough who cremated Rhaegar and were his ashes are. This story isn’t about Robert’s Rebellion. Those elements that aren’t relevant to a character or current events are gonna be skipped by George. The man split the fourth book into too and there were chapter of Dance that were pushed into Winds due to size.
What happened to Rhaegar, the details, are speculation and nothing more. Perhaps Barristan Selmy, who was captured at The Trydent, asked for this small favor for Robert. Perhaps Jon Arryn or Eddard ordered it. Perhaps even Robert ordered it with his lust for blood partially satiated. Some customs in Westeros are sacred and letting nobles bury their dead is one.
Tyrion rejected Robb’s terms except one. He send Ned’s remains so he could be buried in Winterfell.
Perhaps loyalist smuggled the body.
Who knows, for now I ‘m content with George answer. He may change it or not in the future. But right now all we know is that Rhaegar according to George was cremated.
So I accept George answer but know that he can change his mind if he faces it.
Eonwe,
George can change his reply, but he can’t change facts already written in the books. Does it state explicitly that Rhaegar was cremated IN THE BOOKS?
It appears that George, when asked, replied that Rhaegar was cremated, and because the cremation isn’t explicitly stated in the books, he can change that reply later on.
In the show, I think I’ve seen more burials than I have seen weddings…. or even births!
From smallfolk like the girls Brienne came across in the woods who were given a slow death by Stark loyalists, to nobles like Jon Arryn. Brienne takes time to bury the girls. The Hound digs the frozen ground to bury the farmer and his daughter. Jon tells his men to bury Rickon in the crypts. Nedd’s bones are returned to Winterfell for burial. Joffrey gives us a tour of the Sept’s burial chamber. Jon takes Ygritte’s body north of the wall and builds a pyre. Dany cremates Drogo’s body and promises Irri that she’ll do the same for Rakharo when his body is mutilated by the Khals.
…golly, there are so many, I can’t remember them all.
In this universe, all dead bodies must be accounted for…or else!
Myr,
I cannot comment much on the blood relationships between the twins and Aerys. We may never know although the timeline seems to make any unlikely. I suppose any relationship would have some legal implications if it could be proved.
But I think that in every sense that really matters to personal identity, Tywin is the father of all three. Parental bonds are beyond blood – they are emotional, spiritual, aspirational and so on. Similarly, Ned is Jon’s father and will always be his father. Robert is Joffery’s father and will always be.
Anon,
No. They don’t say what they have done with Rhaegar’s body in the books. Bu those who were present in the Trydent clearly state that Robert killed Rhaegar with a blow to the chest. Dany’s herself had a vision of this moment in the House of the Undiying where she sees Rhaegar with his last breath muttering a woman name.
So for all intent and purposes Rhaegar is dead and George didn’t consider important what was done later with his body. We also don’t know what happened to queen Rhaela body or what happened to the bodies of Ser Jonothor Darry and Prince Lewyn Martel of the Kingsguard.
It’s not relevant to the plot of the books that takes place fifteen years later.
Eonwe,
I did wonder why this was being discussed – I wondered if there were plot implications.
It seems there are none then – Rhaegar and others – they are all dead and disposed of in some way. Burned and buried in a sept or in the earth; or just buried, or just burned; or whatever.
…..Rickon – no-one asks what happened to poor Rickon’s body. It does not matter to the story.
Mango,
Rickon’s the perfect example. We don’t know anything about where his body rest. Presumably the cypts bu since it doesn’t matter plowise they don’t bother with it.
Shireen is the exact opposite. Jon’s army camps where Stannis did. So Davos could find the burned toy. So Davos could connect the dots and confront Mel. So Jon sentences her to exile. So she can go to Dragonstone.
Eonwe,
Exactly…focus is on driving the story.
I believe, at the end of 609, Rickon’s body was carried into the Winterfell courtyard and he was to be buried alongside Ned.
Yeah, this is the way I’ve seen it. Maybe there will be more details if an in-depth account of Robert’s Rebellion is ever released but it doesn’t seem pertient to the current story. Even if we never know what happened to Rhaegar’s body, some remains – like in real life – are lost to history.
Eonwe,
Jon told the northmen to bury Rickon in the crypts after the Battle of the Bastards.
I thought, right after the Battle of the Bastards, the men carried Rickon’s body through the courtyard at Winterfell on a stretcher, and paused as for Jon, who directed them to, “Put him in the crypt next to Father.” Did I dream that? Fortunately or unfortunately I think we will see a lot of “shocking” zombies on the march. I can’t imagine them not using Hodor in that way. There’ll be others.
Clob,
Thank you for that!!! 😂😂😂
Eonwe,
My counter-argument has always been that as war increasingly ravaged Westeros and decreased trade, brilliant colors would have been both increasingly expensive and increasingly impractical.
Mango,
This discussion originated by asking a very tin-foily question upthread about whether or not the NK could be Rhaegar, which lead to the question of where his body ended up.
Sister Kisser,
Thanks….I was struggling to find a reason for the exchanges or what got it started.
Aha! is Rhaeger NK? Lol! Just the thought…..I have no idea but I would find that amusing and not in “that is a good story” way….
Ten Bears,
Ohhhhh, that would be wonderful. As long as he doesn’t mistake Nymeria for a snack. (We haven’t seen the last of her, have we? HAVE WE?!)
Mango,
Oh yeah. It’s a terrible idea. It would give new meaning to that staredown between he and Jon at Hardhome though….
I think we were asking about the NK’s motivations, about the crypts at WF, about who the F he is and what the F he wants, which is a part of the story we really don’t have any clarity on yet.
Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
If Edmure is a) recruited by Jaime and b) falls in battle, Sansa might become the Lady of Riverrun (?). Just throwing it out there…
Sister Kisser,
You know, maybe I should open my mind to this possibility – as you point out we have a few unexplained threads. This late and we still are in the dark on what NK wants, who is he…
It makes sense to rethink our dead characters and what became of each…
Rhaegar as the NK? Next thing will be the NK telling Jon “I am your father”.
Doesn’t Edmure have a kid with his Frey wife?
Here’s some more food for thought:
Everyone is going along happily practising their funerary traditions. Dead men begin coming back to life at the Wall and suddenly the Night’s Watch rethinks it’s burial practices. They change policy to burn dead bodies.
Then Jon dies and they deviate for the first time from that policy. They lay him out in a room … I can’t imagine what they’re waiting for. Anyway, Jon comes back to life… as has been happening to dead bodies for some time. The only intervening event is that Melisandre says some words over his body. His eyes are not blue, but he was dead and now he’s alive.
This idea that you’re not really dead unless you’re properly buried is woven throughout the story. Surely, Arya didn’t spend time as a dead body washing apprentice in the East for nothing. If it’s purely accidental that the show has woven all this through my own subconscious, then that’ll be something, but I don’t think it’s accidental. Winterfell is built on top of a graveyard, for goodness sakes. If you do a rewatch, try to count the number of times they talk about matters pertaining to burial.
Something unusual happened with Rhaegar’s body. I want to know what that is.
Just rewatched the episode of the TOJ fight. One of Rhaegar’s knights says to Nedd that his friend the usurper would lie beneath the ground if they had been at the Trident. Nedd replies that the Mad King is dead and Rhaegar lies beneath the ground. So it was the knight that used the term *lie beneath the ground* first.
So, it seems that for Nedd it was a euphemism for dead. Nedd isn’t commenting on what happened to Rhaegar after his presumptive death.
Nedd is puzzled that the knights are at this tower acting all blase about their king and prince being dead. This adds weight to the idea that Nedd knew that Jon was the legitimate heir to the iron throne. It explains why the knights were there and so protective. They were protecting a king.
You know, millions of people think that Star Wars is da bomb. I am not hostile to speculation; speculation is how fiction works. Some people love authors for the fame and prestige that comes with the act of writing popular fiction without understanding that speculation is what keeps readers turning each page in the first place. They love writers and hate writing.
Anon,
From the unmitigated venom still resonant in Robert’s voice even over a decade later*, I suspect that after bashing in Rhaegar’s chest with his war hammer, he used Rhaegar’s body as a piñata and then pounded it flat like he was tenderizing veal. Rhaegar’s corpse probably resembled pancaked highway road kill when Robert was done with it.
I doubt Robert cared about returning Rhaegar’s body to any surviving Targaryen loyalists for proper burial or cremation. Robert likely pilfered Rhaegar’s Valyrian Steel dagger as a trophy before watching whatever was left of Rhaegar sink to bottom of the river or wash away with the current.
Is it possible somebody retrieved Rhaegar’s remains and gave him a proper burial [per S6e3] or cremation [per GRRM]? Sure.
Still, I don’t think the CotF or even Ol’ Blue Eyes himself could reanimate whatever pulverized skeletal fragments were left of what was once the Dreamboat Prince.
…………..
* S1e1 (Robert & Ned in WF Crypts)
Robert: “Did you have to bury her in a place like this? She should be on a hill somewhere with the sun and the clouds above her.”
Ned: “She was my sister. This is where she belongs.”
Robert: “She belonged with me. In my dreams, I kill him every night.”
Ned: “It’s done, Your Grace. The Targaryens are gone.” [Liar, liar]
Robert: “Not all of them.” [referring to Viserys and Daenerys]
Eonwe,
He does!!! How could I have forgotten?
Saturday-morning pre-noon brain fart. (I’m a night person stuck in a day-shift job, and I tend to be catatonic on Saturday mornings.)
Eonwe,
I mistyped my email in a reply to you and now my comment is stuck in moderation.
Who said you can’t put two people on the Iron Throne?:)
https://i.imgur.com/I91eZ7f.jpg
Milutin,
Jon and the most desperately power hungry person in the story.
Poor Jon.
Mango,
Jon’s no saint. He’s susceptible to corruption, like everyone else. We don’t know yet how he’s going to react once he finds out that he’s the true heir to the throne. So I wouldn’t feel too sorry for him just yet.
Lunaselene,
When that happens (the reveal of Jon parentage) in a single moment Jon becomes Daenerys biggest threat in her quest for the Iron Throne.
Because Jon is a man (men goes before women specially with the Iron Throne), was raised amongst a westerosi noble family (and thus know the social conventions) and is Rhaegar´s son.
While Daenerys is a female, was raised in Essos hopping from town to town by a progressive deranged Viserys and it´s the daughter of Aerys II.
And that would make Jon a better claimant to the throne in the eyes of the nobles.
So expect trouble in paradise and drama until the NK arrives to the party.
Eonwe,
Exactly, and I would like him to actually *want* the throne when he realizes that he’s the true heir, and not simply reluctantly accept it as his duty. That would make his fight with Daenerys, if it comes to that, more dramatic. It would also make him a more interesting and complex character–someone who can actually desire power instead of always being a reluctant, honorable, duty-driven leader. He’s so often painted as a “good” guy on the show, so I would like to see him become a somewhat more complicated character this final season, especially in his relationship to power. If characters like Theon and Jaime can change and develop, why not Jon?
Lunaselene,
I don’t see Jon wanting any throne at this point, especially everything that’s happened and what he’s experienced as a leader. In both the books and the show, he found leadership a miserable, lonely, and hard experience. While Jon had dreams of leadership and glory as a kid, that was when he was a kid, before he ever knew what it was like to lead – pre-Lord Commander, pre-unpopular/polarizing decisions, pre-assassination, pre-“Sam, you sweet fat fool, you played me a cruel jape when you made me lord commander. A lord commander has no friends.”
Jon suddenly having those dreams of being king would seem to come out of nowhere, especially after all of the hardships he’s faced as a leader. In A Dance of Dragons especially, Jon seems lonely, burdened, with the weight of the world on his shoulders. Ditto with the show.
His (and Dany’s) experiences with leadership seem like something I read from Marilyn Monroe when I was in highschool. I can’t remember the exact quote but she talked about how the dream of fame was far more fun than the reality of fame. I think the same is true of leadership, which Jon and Dany find out the hard, hands-on way. The dream is far different than the reality.
But I would definitely disagree Daenerys is the most power-hungry character in the series 😉
Surely that’s the bitter sweet aspect. Unlike Dany and Cersei he doesn’t seek power or take pleasure from it. He will do his duty because he has too.
What sort of story would it be if morally questionable characters like Dany and Cersei end up successful?
And I think that’s the crux of it, because it means more of the burdens and trials he has already had to face as Lord Commander, as King in the North, and I think it means – in a way – he’ll always be having to fight something.
Aside from the world-ending war stuff, the crown means Jon would still have to make those polarizing, unpopular decisions, he’s still charged with the well-being of everyone under his rule, he’ll still be burdened with the responsibilities of the crown, he’ll still be having to deal with opposing factions in efforts to quell conflict and build peace, he’ll still be facing dissent, he’ll still be having to make harsh decisions that weigh on him, his every decision – no matter how hard he tries to make the right decision – is going to have a consequence; and he won’t be able to rest or lay down those burdens. It’s like a fight that never ends and that sort of sounds like hell.
Personally, I’ve never seen Dany seeking power for power’s sake itself. I think it’s a combination of trying to take back what she thinks belongs to her family as the last Targaryen, using that as some sort of way forge even in the slightest connection with her lost family (but this might be more book-based), and wanting to use that power in a beneficial way. Cersei, on the other hand… 😉
Typo! That should read “using that as some sort of way to forge even the slightest connection with her lost family (but this might be more book-based)”!
I’m in a sleep-deprived-drop-at-any-moment-state out of desperation to fulfill a deadline – I’m sorry if some of my sentences are completely discombobulated! It’s a genuine reflection of my mental abilities at the moment 😉
________
Well said!
In addition to Alliser T’s last words [paraphrasing]: “… But you, Lord Snow, you’ll be fighting their battles forever”, what you wrote reminded me that both Maester Aemon and Beric Dondarrion advised Jon he wouldn’t find much joy in his life due to the responsibilities he’d undertaken:
(From S5e5, LC Jon & Maester Aemon)
Jon: “I need your advice. There’s something I want to do, something I have to do. But it’ll divide the Night’s Watch. Bitterly. Half the men will hate me the moment I give the order.”
Aemon: “Half the men hate you already, Lord Commander. Do it.”
Jon: “But you don’t know what it is.”
Aemon: “That doesn’t matter. You do.
You will find little joy in your command.
But with luck, you will find the strength to do what needs to be done. Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.”
_____________
(From S7e6, KitN Jon & Beric)
Beric: “The enemy [death] always wins. And we still need to fight him. That’s all I know. You and I wont find much joy while we’re here. But we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can’t defend themselves.”
Jon: “‘I am the shield that guards the realms of men’.”
Beric: “Maybe we don’t need to understand any more than that. Maybe that’s enough.”
Jon: “Aye. Maybe that’s enough.”
Adrianacandle,
I also don’t see Daenerys as the most power hungry person in the show.
I understand that show-runners can take the show in whichever direction they want, but from everything we have seen so far, the way Jon and Daenerys are portrayed, I don’t think they would fall out over who should sit the Iron Throne.
They are in love and respect each other and when Jon’s parentage is revealed, I think that, after the initial shock and the apprehension of not knowing how the other side would react, they would come to the conclusion that they would rule together if both of them are alive and winning in the end.
Jon would accept ruling because of sense of duty, although reluctantly, and I don’t see Daenerys objecting to Jon taking his rightful place as a ruler, especially since she is not the last Targaryen and the Iron Throne wouldn’t be the only thing connecting her to her family , but Jon as well.
This, of course, is based on where everyone is at the end of Season 7. We can only guess if there are surprises awaiting us in Season 8 that could radically change the course of the action.
Milutin,
Well said that’s exactly how i feel too..
Only one thing that can change or affect things out of order will be the actions of varys and tyrion..
If there is one character that I hate in the show currently it must be Varys and Tyrion..
I imagine they can act on the dany’s back to overthrow her and place jon in her place once the parentage is revealed..
The reason I hate varys is he is seen someone who is fighting for common man and against the violence and war..but if he had done his job well for At least one king then westeros wouldn’t be in this situtaion right now…
His quest for finding the best ruler will never come to fruition because it’s nothing but the search for one who will be his puppet ..he might have realised that dany is someone that he can’t control and he will again try to switch and support jon to see whether he can control him but we jon same as dany can’t be controlled..
So if Arya finishes varys ASAP I will be very happy..
Dragonbringer,
•As much as I enjoy Arya smiting traitors, I would think that if Varys goes behind Dany’s back and latches onto Jon as the best candidate to rule, or undermines Dany in any way without forewarning her of his misgivings, Dany will follow through on her promise (S7e2) to roast him alive.
With one or two exceptions*, Arya has only killed really evil people – not mere oathbreakers.
*[Skewering the stable boy was unintended or at worst, in self-defense. Though Rorge was an arrogant d*uchebag who’d threatened to f*ck her bloody with a stick when he was locked up in the NW paddy wagon, impaling him with Needle was arguably…overkill.]
I can’t envision a scenario in which Arya would be the one to execute Varys, unless of course for some reason Varys tries to assassinate Jon – but nothing like that has been foreshadowed. If anything, just the opposite: Mr. Targaryen Restoration Varys could wind up concluding that Aegon Targaryen in charge would be better for the realm than Daenerys.
• From Melisandre’s prediction to Varys that they’re both destined to die in “this strange land” (or something like that), I figure the likelihood of Varys dying in S8 is at least 80%.
However, I don’t see him as an evil character, or as pursuing a “quest for finding the best ruler“… that is “nothing but the search for one who will be his puppet.” I’m curious what has given you that impression. (I’m a show-only fan. Is there something in the books that portrays Varys as an aspiring puppetmaster?)
•As long as they don’t whisk him off the show without giving us answers to the questions Kinvara posed that spooked out the usually unflappable Varys in S6e5:
Kinvara to Varys (S6e5)
“….Do you remember what you heard that night when the sorcerer tossed your parts in the fire? You heard a voice call out from the flames. Do you remember? Should I tell you what the voice said? Should I tell you the name of the one who spoke? We serve the same queen. If you are her true friend, you have nothing to fear from me.”
It would suck to leave those questions unanswered. When I watched that episode, I silently answered: “Yes. You should tell him (us) what the voice said. Yes, you should tell him (us) whose voice it was.”
Adrianacandle,
It’s true that ruling won’t be a fun to Jon but that can be said almost about anything that matters: family, children, etc. And “going south and getting warm” doesn’t sound like fun either. What would Jon do aferwards – die from boredom of some Dornish beach? Responsibility is a burden and so is decision-making, but that’s the crux of an adulthood. And IMO Jon is pretty capable of bearing it with dignity despite of occasional whinging.
As for Dany, she wants HOME, not the THRONE, she’s just confusing one with the other.
Dragonbringer,
I can only speculate about what could go wrong for Team Targaryen based on clues that were established in Season 7. Such clues are not numerous and are pretty vague:
1. Varys – his discussion with Daenerys about betraying here, but we can only guess about why and how,
2. Tyrion – his constant worrying about Daenerys behaving like her father is somehow hypocritical when he himself burnt thousands of people with wildfire in Blackwater battle. But there it is and there’s that look he had at the very end witnessing boatsex.
3. Sansa – she expressed her displeasure with Jon bending the knee, but after Jon’s parentage reveal she should be full onboard with Targaryen restoration if Jon and Daenerys come to an agreement . She would have her cousin on the Iron Throne and her position as the undisputed leader of the North would be strengthened.
4. Bran – the way he told Sam how Jon needs to know the truth because he is the true heir to the throne left me puzzled. Bran is supposed to not even be a Stark anymore, but the Three – Eyed Raven focused on the war against the dead. I could understand if he said Jon needed to know because his Targaryen blood would make him the prophesied hero to defeat the Night King or to become the second dragonrider. That would be important knowledge with the imminent threat of AotD. How is Jon being the true heir important in that moment is beyond me. If Bran presents the reveal like that, then I could see some distrust affecting the Jon and Daenerys’s relationship.
5. Sam – his father and brother being killed by Daenerys. Can this lead to something bigger? I’d say no, but again who knows.
So, the question is: can actions of any of these people, taken maybe with the best intentions at heart but creating long-term distrust and alienation within the large group of people staying at Winterfell cause permanent damage to the Jon and Daenerys alliance?
Or could it be something else involving Cersei’s scheming later on in the Season 8?
These are the questions I would like to have answers to.
Inga,
I agree! I was trying to explain why I think Jon wouldn’t want the throne, not that he shouldn’t take it if compelled to by duty. Like Edd calling out a newly resurrected Jon in 604 for wanting to leave when he knows what’s coming, rejection of a position isn’t always the best or most noble thing when there’s a responsibility to take it – no matter how bitter or unwanted the burden.
I also agree what Dany wants is a home and I also think she wants a family, a place to belong.
Ten Bears,
Thanks for those quotes! There’s a quote from Maester Aemon in ADWD similar to the one you posted here (the last line is word for word), wherein he talks about his brother taking the throne:
Milutin,
Ultimately, I don’t the throne will divide Jon and Dany and if duty compels Jon to take it, I think he will. If Jon has the opportunity to take it alongside Daenerys, if they both survive and are still the people we know after the war is done, I think that will soften some of that burden. However, I think their relationship will become a rocky road once the truth is revealed for a few reasons: the shock of Jon’s parentage, the revelation that they’re related, the shock of Dany finding out she doesn’t have the greatest claim to her family’s legacy, Jon finding out he’s not Ned’s son.
That said, although Dany has been working toward taking back the throne since season 1, I think she wants a family most of all and a place to belong. In the books, Dany’s always looking out for that house with a red door, like the one she lived in as a kid which was the closest to a home she’d ever known. I had recently watched 209, where Dany has that vision in the House of the Undying. She walks into the broken snow-covered throne room with grey sky overhead and reaches out to touch the throne but hears her dragons, stops, and walks away to find them. She comes out into a frozen landscape, through a gate in the Wall, and sees a hazy hut in the distance. She enters that sunny scene with Khal Drogo and their baby son and wants nothing more than to stay there forever but hears her dragons and must leave to find them.
As for Jon, he’s always put such high regard in being the son of Ned Stark. He may be a bastard but Ned Stark is his father. I think the parentage reveal is going to rock him to his core. I think the upside will be finding out who his mother was and that she did love him, passing him off into her brother’s protection before she died. It reminds me of that conversation back in 102:
But you’re right – we can only guess what’s awaiting us in season 8! I’m nervous!
*And by 209, I really mean 210! 😉
Adrianacandle,
I agree with what you said. The news about Jon’s parentage will have thunderous effect.
I just wanted to comment on that line you quoted in which Ned promises to tell Jon about his mother when they meet again. I don’t know what to think about it. It is show only invention and, in my opinion, it is absurd. It makes Ned look like either short-sighted or just cruel. So, his plan was to reveal to Jon that he was a legitimate child and the heir to the Iron Throne after Jon takes the Night’s Watch wows and is bound to the Wall for life? Come on! If he had intended to reveal the truth to Jon, the only honorable thing to do would’ve been to reveal it before Jon joins the watch, so that he is able to make his life choices accordingly. That is why I think Ned never intended to tell him. I know I am veering off the topic, but I was reminded by your quote:)
The irony of Daenerys was her statement of “I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms” when in reality by succession laws she is the last (even with a gender equality law like the Dornish).
Which would put Daenerys in a compromising position. Her claim lays in the Targs as the lawfull kings. But with R+L=J that means that Jon’s the Targ king.
So it would put Daenerys in the same boat as Jon and Sansa.
In season 6 after the BotB Jon tells Sansa that he has ordered to prepare the lord’s chambers for her. Sansa tells that he should take them as Ned’s son. Jon replies with “You are the lady of Winterfell”. So we see Jon recognizing Sansa lawfully rights to WF as Ned’s true born daughter.
Then in season 7 when Bran returns to WF Sansa tells him that he is the last son of Eddard and as such WF and it’ s lordship are lawfully his. Bran rejects the offer. But Sansa like Jon recognized her brother’s right.
So… Would we have this same moment with Daenerys? Would she step down for Jon’s rights? Would it create conflict?
The television series is titled “Game of Thrones” and the very last season’s character posters are all of them sitting on The Throne. Including secondary and even some tertiary characters (like Euron). This very obviously screams to me that there will be NO throne when all is said and done. Plus, given that many viewers still argue (after seven seasons!!!) about who will sit on the Throne at the end, who has the better claim, etc., an added bonus is that such an ending will be a shock to quite a few! 😀
The thing is, at that point, Jon would be protected by the Night’s Watch as the Watch is beyond the reach of the crown. If even the slightest whisper of the truth got out, Robert wouldn’t be able to do anything to Jon if Jon was bound to the Watch. Before Jon joined the Night’s Watch, Robert was still alive and out for Targaryen blood, sending assassins after Daenerys, her unborn child, and Viserys. It makes sense to me why, before that point, Ned wouldn’t risk saying a word to anyone because even the barest whisper could jeopardize Jon’s safety. Ned had done everything he could to keep Jon’s true identity hidden in order to protect him, including sacrificing his own honour, risking his life by going against Robert, straining his marriage, etc. I don’t think he’d be willing to risk telling his kid nephewson the truth before any point where it was assured Robert could do nothing to Jon if the truth got out. Ned’s main goal seemed to be keeping Jon alive.
And there’s also that Ned did see the Night’s Watch as an honorable calling and the best choice for Jon that could be made under pressing circumstances. He didn’t anticipate Robert would ask him to be his Hand, didn’t think he’d have to leave the North and go south. It seems he wanted Robb, Jon, Sansa, Arya, Bran and Rickon all to remain in Winterfell, tucked away for as long as possible, away from the political drama of the south. As for the Night’s Watch, Ned’s brother is there, Jeor Mormont is there, Aemon is there, it’s an institution respected by the Starks which the Starks have observed for thousands of years, Jon could rise high there – but again, most of all, Jon would be protected and out of reach from Robert’s wrath.
Eonwe,
Those are good questions and I don’t know how Dany will react. I think the rug will be pulled out from under her when she finds out a) she’s not the heir to her family’s dynasty, what she’s been working toward since season 1, but is next-in-line after Jon and that will be quite the shock; and b) she’s not alone in the world anymore as the last Targaryen. I think the latter will ultimately have the biggest impact, as I think it will touch on Daenerys’s deepest longing for her family, for a home, and to not be the last.
Adrianacandle,
The human heart at conflict with itself.
Eonwe,
Yep! That’s really what everything is about.
And speaking of which… 😉
Milutin,
Rereading your comment, I think I may have misunderstood you so I wanted to add that I think Ned wants to tell Jon about his mother, the sister Ned loved very much and Jon, likewise, wants very much to know this information. However, at any point where Jon’s protection from the crown was not assured, it would be too dangerous for Ned to tell Jon anything.
Adrianacandle,
“The thing is, at that point, Jon would be protected by the Night’s Watch as the Watch is beyond the reach of the crown.”
——
That’s what Yoren said (to the Gold Cloaks with the royal warrant for the bastard boy named Gendry). Lot of good it did him.
That’s true!! Thankfully for Jon, unlike poor Gendry, nobody had any earthly idea who Jon really was before he was beyond the reach of the crown via the Watch – except us gentle readers/watchers/forum go-ers 😉
Ten Bears,
Oh, wait, you meant Yoren! Yes, poor Yoren. While being in the Watch makes it unlawful for the crown to pursue and punish you, it doesn’t make you immune from getting illegally killed by Gold Cloaks when trying to do your job down south.
I may be slow for the next bit 😉 Sleep deprived and on a third wind! Sorry about that!
Milutin,
Gah, I’m sorry – I did misunderstand the point of your post! If this were an email or a text, the headline would be ‘READ THIS REPLY!!’ 😉 Anyway, as to what I think you’re saying – in my second reply above (when I realized I may have misunderstood – I’m sorry for three replies!), I think Ned wants to tell Jon about his mother but is aware of just how dangerous that is to Jon’s safety as it would be revealing who he is – not a good thing in a Westeros with Robert Baratheon reigning as king. In AGOT, in his final POV chapter, Ned is shown to feel deep shame at the thought of Jon and longs to have a talk with him, which sparked more tinfoilies! In the show, he outright states his intention to tell Jon about his mother the next time they see each other. It would seem there are advantages and disadvantages to telling Jon the truth: ideally, he should know the truth before he swears his life to the Watch but then again, with a king hunting down Targaryens, this truth is dangerous and Ned keeps it locked tight inside his brain. On the other hand, it answers that burning question in Jon’s life, who his mother is, something I think Ned wants to share with Jon.
I’m so sorry for three replies. I need to go sleep! Basic cognitive function is failing me!
Eonwe,
WHERE THE FUCK IS GENDRY
This makes a great deal of sense to me, especially since I see I, Claudius as a major influence on GRRM in writing these books. By the end of the book sequel, Claudius the God and His Wife Messalina, and also the end of the 1970s TV series, the emperor-by-accident Claudius has proven over and over again that he is a benign and just ruler, working very hard to right the harms done by his predecessors (most recently Caligula) and protecting Rome from starvation and disease by building granaries and aqueducts. But the realities of politics force him to give up his lifelong dream of restoring the Republic, and the schemes of people around him (including his infatuation with his wife and inability to see what she’s actually up to) end up making him highly unpopular with the average Roman citizen. By the end he has to accept that his best efforts will always be misunderstood and unappreciated, that he will never have the love of the people despite how unusual he is in having their best interests at heart. He also realizes shortly before his own death by assassination (which he knows is coming) that the revolution needed to overthrow the Caesars and restore the Republic will come more quickly when a truly terrible king is in place. So he ends up doing nothing to prevent Nero becoming his heir.
It’s quite a cynical and depressing ending. Claudius has Jon’s sense of honor and responsibility and Tyrion’s sharp intellect, and was just about the only member of his family who didn’t want the throne – only to be left alone to be a scholar. Being one of the few left standing after all his ambitious relatives had stabbed or poisoned one another doomed him to leadership for which he was in many ways well-suited, but that he never craved. I could see GRRM going in for that level of irony with his own ending.
Adrianacandle,
No need to be sorry. Thak you for your effort. I agree that Ned had Jon’s security foremost in his mind and that he is justified to keep the secret. But telling him after he joins the Watch would not help also. Maybe if he really was just a bastard, but he’s not and that would affect his life choices – maybe he would still go to the Wall, maybe he would go in search for his relatives in Essos (although knowing Viserys that probably wouldn’t end up well). Whatever the outcome, I think he had the right to know, but Ned needed to prioritise and he put the safety of his own family first. If the truth had come out, then all the Starks would’ve been in danger.
Firannion,
Oh wow, that’s an intensely sad ending and a sad way to end a life – even more tragic, the life of a man who worked so hard to make things better for his people but is unpopular among them and remembered negatively. I agree that I could see GRRM having that level of irony in Jon’s ending and I can also see it going down that way for Jon if he survives the story and ends up becoming king.
The very soft part of me can’t help but hope – if this is how Jon’s own life will unfold and ultimately end – for there could be somebody (Arya, Sansa, and/or Bran; Sam, Davos, Tyrion; or Daenerys – if she and Jon both manage to survive the story) in his life to help soften some of that situation. But I wonder if that’s a ‘hope for the best, prepare for the worst’ sort of thing 😉
Thanks for telling me about that book, you’ve got me interested! It sounds shattering! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Milutin,
Thank-you for being so nice about that!! It was a rough day yesterday! <3
Right. Jon isn't a bastard in reality and being so limited his options, caused him pain – at the same time, in an ironic twist for me (speaking of irony ;D), Ned's bastard cover story was the very thing that protected Jon and kept him alive, enabled him to have a family and grow up with them in a home. Still, I agree with what you're saying. I think if Ned had told Jon after he joined the Watch, the truth of who he really was, that would have been another incredibly difficult thing for Jon to deal with. I also think it'd fill in that blank piece in his life by answering who his mother is. But it seems that soon enough, we'll get to see for ourselves how Jon reacts!
I also agree Jon does have the right to know but yeah, like you said, I think Ned needed to prioritize Jon's safety and the safety of the rest of their family as well.
It's so often upsides are always coming with downsides and downsides are always coming with upsides – there’s never a real win. Dany had the trueborn name, a place in succession, and had the status but she lacked the home and family and spent her childhood on the run from Robert's assassins. Meanwhile, Jon had a family, had a home, but lacked that trueborn name and secure place in the world that comes inheritance and trueborn status.
The dominant tone of the books is very dark political humor. I recommend them especially to people who enjoy the twists and turns of scheming in ASoIaF and GoT. Robert Graves’ writing is superb.
The new EW covers are pretty sharp.
https://mobile.twitter.com/EW/status/1102557967856091140
Even after Robert was dead and posed no further threat to Targaryens, the show continued to elaborate on his hatred of them. We find out from Joffrey that not only did Robert hate live Targaryens, he hated dead ones, too.
You basically have this yawing empty crypt where Rhaegar’s body should lie and Robert yammering on about killing Rhaegar in his dreams. Where is Rhaegar’s body? I think that his son might want to visit his grave.
The fact Cersei blew up the crypt, including Rhaegar’s figurative empty grave, adds a level of mystery. If Jon goes looking for his dad’s grave, he can’t stand inside the crypt and look at the empty spot where his father’s body ought to be, can he? That would, hypothetically, cause him to ask where his father’s body is…. and to go in search of Rhaegar’s final resting place.
Jon will be left to ask about his father’s grave, and someone might tell him that Rhaegar was never buried in the Sept. All that remains there is an empty crater. Jon, or Dany, will want to find their father/brother’s remains and give it an honorable burial.
btw, I think Dany did that for an unsullied soldier who was murdered by the harpy. She ordered that his body be buried in the pyramids….or was it Barristan? Same difference.
Of course, Bran is an option for information if no one remains who can tell Jon about the Sept.
Speculation, yes; but I think there is strong basis for it.
Entertainment weekly has another GOT exclusively with reports from the set of the Winterfell battle (with some mild spoilers of who is fighting and the likely outcome) and also from Kings Landing (confirming the deaths of some characters without naming them). They also have a number of cast photos from their time on set!
Ran out of time to add this part…
I’m glad you mention those two to illustrate that there were a lot of strange folks running around those parts who were interested in dead, or near dead bodies, and who were trying to get their hands on King’s blood. Things that would be implausible here on Earth, are perfectly plausible on Planetos.
Anon,
Speaking of Kongsblood- Have you heard any of the Robert strong=King Roberts-head-on-on-the- mountain’s-body theories?
Sister Kisser,
…no, I haven’t!
Firannion,
Thanks!!