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Bran’s vision last night in the new episode of Game of Thrones was jam-packed with imagery, with the history of the world flowing through the boy’s mind thanks to a quick upload from the late Three-Eyed Raven. A lot of the images are of things we’ve seen on the show, but there are new gems buried in the mad crush of info and we’re going to take a look at the more intriguing bits today, and the significance of the staggering vision.
YouTube user Mayes T has helpfully uploaded a slowed-down version of Bran’s visions if you’d like to rewatch at a less frenetic pace.
We’ve screencapped key moments from Bran’s visions to take a deeper look. It was an overwhelming amount of information unloaded onto viewers, as well as Bran. Now that we’ve had a little time to mull it over, what do we have here? To sum it up: the war between ice and fire, the weapons of mass destruction on both sides and the major players Bran needs to keep his eyes on.
The vision shows us the containers of wildfire that we know are kept beneath King’s Landing. Wildfire was used to devastating effect in “Blackwater”:
The visions are heavy on the dragon imagery, showing us the dragon and a shadow over King’s Landing, something we saw in a previous vision:
Woven throughout the visions is the fall of the Mad King Aerys, obsessed with wildfire and slain by Jaime Lannister during Robert’s Rebellion. First we see a shot of David Rintoul as the Mad King, who also happens to be Daenerys’ father. (Worth mentioning since she and her dragon were the big finale last night.)
Since the role of the Mad King was played by Liam Burke in a cut season 1 scene, we can assume this is newly shot and not the show hauling the old cut scene from their trunks:
We get a glimpse of the cold moving over the North, seen in another vision:
Scattered throughout are familiar reused shots of:
-the Night’s King and wight-Karsi at Hardhome
-Bran falling all over again from the tower at Winterfell
-Catelyn dying at the Red Wedding
-the birth of Dany’s dragons
-the White Walker collecting Craster’s baby, and the baby being changed by the Night’s King
-Ned Stark’s execution
The story of Bran’s own family seems to be tied into the vision’s tale of ice and fire, perhaps due to Bran’s role, or perhaps due to someone else’s, like say Jon Snow.
We see the pyromancers’ jars of wildfire once again, and there will be more of this. The emphasis on wildfire is almost threatening.
There is more of the Mad King…
The second flood of images for Bran uses a lot of the same imagery of the dragons and the White Walkers- the focus here is clearly the true war. We see the ravens that Sam and Gilly saw when they encountered the White Walker, and catch another glimpse of the dangerous cache of wildfire being handled by pyromancers.
Aerys is now shouting “Burn them all!” from the Iron Throne.
Next we see the wildfire ignited in the storage where we saw them being kept- however I don’t recall this happening before. If it had, the Red Keep and all of King’s Landing would be a smoking ruin, with that much wildfire. Is this the future?
Then more of the same recurring glimpse of the pyromancers at work, handling the substance:
Young Jaime arrives to stop the Mad King from destroying the city:
While we see young Ned Stark back at the Tower of Joy wanting to see his sister…
With an immediate cut to this bloody hand, hovering over a blood-soaked shape. We can see another hand lying alongside the body, if that’s what it is.
We compared young Ned’s gloves and armwear to what we saw in “Oathbreaker” and it certainly seem very possible that this hand and wrist belongs to Ned, and the blood may be his sister’s. My best guess is that we’re getting a glimpse of the resolution of the Tower of Joy here, with Lyanna in her bed of blood. Book readers understand the enormity of that sequence, what it implies and at this rate, a lot of the show-only fans have worked it out. We know that Robert Aramayo is set to be in the season finale, so hopefully we’ll finally get this resolved in episode 10.
After that intriguing bit, we see a mix of familiar sights- Robb at the Red Wedding, the Children creating the first White Walker, Jon’s White Walker duel at Hardhome, the key recurring images of Dany and the dragons and the White Walkers- while also getting a look at Jaime’s murder of the Mad King, how he earned his nickname Kingslayer.
The ignited wildfire we saw before expands- this is like a bomb going off. It’s what the Mad King was threatening to do, it’s why Jaime killed him- so this never happened. Only it may still.
Essentially, the images of the vision convey a condensed version of the war between ice and fire throughout history, the Three-Eyed Raven’s last attempt to help Bran understand what he was up against and what he needed to do.
My predictions, based on the vision: the mystery of Jon Snow’s parentage will be revealed in the season finale, and there is going to be a wildfire explosion in King’s Landing. The dragons will be, as people have long guessed, a major part in bringing down the White Walkers someday, the main weapon. The reminder of Dany’s father’s madness in an episode finishing with a declaration of her ambitions makes me think that we will see Daenerys take a similar turn in the end, with a wish to “Burn them all.” She’ll probably save Westeros first, though! And Bran will be there to see it all.
Hold the door!
Edit:
Get hype! Any chance we see some more ToJ before the finale?
KL will burn…..This isn’t the past, we now Aerys didn’t burn the city so it’s from the future.
The Waif!
Hold the Door
Thanks for doing this Sue and Mayes T -will be studying all day!
Bob,
Not in my opinion.
EP10 is my guess.
Still can´t believe we´ve got a vision of the Mad King and his death!
AWESOME, no words.
Completely nailed it by the actor, btw.
Bob,
Aramayo is not on GoT again until the finale, so I would say no.
omg.. I didn’t even think the wildfire images were from the future. I assumed they were from the past.
amazing. and scary.
Cersei will burn KL to the ground, not Dany, and with that wildfire. Dany will find KL in ashes when she finally arrives.
Kargaryen,
Like she does in the vision in S2.
Kargaryen,
Perhaps instead of snow falling on the Iron Throne in Dany’s own vision, it’s really ash.
Mihnea,
Exactly
Kargaryen,
Cersei has said so many times that she will burn cities to the ground for her children. And that is precisely what she will do. Unfortunately, it would be too late for her children.
She becomes queen when Tommen dies right? Right.
And there is your mad queen people. How many mad queens are we going get?
I think the visions were to show Bran what is needed to defeat the WW. Since Jamie doesn’t hate Cersei yet, it may be up to him to save KL from wildfire again, but this time to save all of humanity, not just KL. I’d hate to see all that wildfire go to waste over Cersei’s stupidity. Mereen has already shown us dragons can be hurt. The amount of WWs by now has to be close to innumerable. It will take more than three dragons to kill them.
Remember Dani’s vision in the House of the Undying of the burned out throne room and snow falling?? Hmm…
Thanks for putting this together Sue! I definitely missed a chunk of this even upon a second viewing. Thanks to Mayes T for the video!
I definitely see Tommen dying in the finale and then Cersei unleashing the wildfire on the city.
trarecar,
I don’t even think the dragons can kill the whitewalkers…. fire doesn’t phase them. The dragons can burn their entire army though.
Dee,
Dragonglass is made from dragon fire, as far as we know.
So I think it could harm them.
Thanks for this Sue!
After watching last nights episode for the first time (i watched it three times lol) I immediately said to myself “those visions mean something very big” So glad for the slowed down and scene by scene take on them. I agree I feel the wildfire explosions were a future vision. Now all I can think is, is it Sunday yet?
Mihnea,
Ah okay! Thanks!
Kargaryen,
Dee,
IMO, Cersei will burn KL. She knows about the containers of wildfire. Not sure if that will directly cause Tommen’s death but she will ultimately be responsible for it.
And many thanks to Sue and Mayes T for isolating these images.
I think the bloody hand is from the RW. Robb and Talisa.
Who played Aerys?
mariamb,
I think Tommen will die, THEN she will burn down KL
Keeping in mind the vision from season 2. Winter pushes down into Kings Landing. Last ditch effort is made by using Wildfire, it destroys the Night King’s army but not before most of the continent is destroyed. By the time Dany makes it to Kings Landing, the whole region is a winter ruin given Westeros inability to get its act together. Remeber GRRM said it would be a bitter sweet ending. Why not Dany makes it all the way there but her army finds a land of nothing but snow and ice
Yes! I mentioned the same thing in another thread.
All of these visions about the wildfire pretty much confirmed for me that KL will be burnt by wildfire and Dany will have no throne to conquer.
I wonder if Bran will realize the importance of Jaime killing Aerys, or if the two of them will ever meet. I hope so. Defenestration needs some closure! Not that Bran should forgive Jaime for almost killing him of course, but now Bran is one of only two people with direct knowledge that what Jaime did in that throne room is fully justified.
Dee,
Exactly. His death should push her over the edge.
Does anyone think that the wildfire explosions have anything to do with the The Faith? Either they’ve started it or Cersei finally goes crazy after losing her son to them.?.
I am very confused by this entire paragraph. Dany wants to “burn them all” (all the people of Westeros) but also wants to save them all? What?
What exactly would be left to “burn all of” if she has just saved everyone in the entire continent from the WW? Like “MWAHAHA THANK YOU FOR HELPING ME KILL THE WHITE WALKERS NOW DIIIEE USURPERS MWAHWHAHAHAHA!!! Like… what?
QueenofThrones,
LOLs I agree
Mentioned it in the article- David Rintoul.
I found the cuts back and forth between “Burn them all!” and the wight army interesting. They repeated that bit of juxtaposition too many times for it not to be some kind of foreshadowing.
Ryan,
My guess is she goes mad after Tommen dies.
But I think the Faith will also be involved..
In my opinion they are connected.
Thanks so much for posting these!
I can’t wait to see what happens!
Fat ‘n’ Balda,
I highly doubt it. I watched last night with an unsullied friend and he said the same thing, so we rewatched the RW scene. The lighting is all wrong, we never saw that shot on the show during Reins of Castamere. Talisa’s dress was a blue green color, I could go on and on and on. I think that was young Eddard’s leather clad arm and bloody hand, and you can see another hand (Lyanna’s) laying limply parallel to blood soaked fabric, which I believe to be the side of a mattress. The flashes that the audience has witnessed are shot for shot from the series, and it doesn’t seem to match up
Dee,
I think Dragon fire is different from regular fire.
Thanks for doing this! Even at the slow speed, some of the images are maddeningly fast.
Wildfire could be such an effective weapon against the Walkers! Now I’m even more excited to see Sam’s discoveries in Oldtown. The glass candles have begun to burn again! They could be used as a fuse in a cache of wildfire. If only Cersei can keep her hands off of it!
And the bloody body! Poor Lyanna! Poor Ned! I wish that we could get a little more of the young Ned and Lyanna interacting before we get this denouement to show how close they were and drive home Ned’s real sacrifice in bringing up Jon. Any chance we’ll get another glimpse? Are the very young actors scheduled to appear again?
My Unsullied family thought it was a boring episode, but as a book reader, I thought it was fun. After the Benjen reveal, I can’t wait for the next big reveal of a guy in a monk-type robe! 😉
Mihnea,
kind ser ..any guess on what leads to tommens death …..I agree with you that cersei goes mad after tommens death …but what could lead to his death is hard to guess….
So if we extrapolate from what we know so far:
– Dany had a vision, that was in the show, of The Iron Throne and castle in ruins and covered in snow.
– Cersei will have her trial by combat and is destined to see all her children dead, all confirmed by the show as important things.
So the future of Kings Landing will probably be thus [Spoiler Warning: because this is a very probable timeline]:
– Cersei will lose her trial by combat against the Faith at the end of episode 9. Looking at the insane pace of the show this season; Brienne will meet Monk Clegane and the priest in episode 8 on their way to the trial in Kings Landing, leading to the oft predicted Clegane bowl the next episode.
– This mean she needs to accept final punishment by the Faith, which is not something Cersei will take lying down in episode 10. Problem is she’s lost Jaime and a large part of the Lannister army, she’s no longer protected by Strong Clegane, The Faith have Tommen, her uncle is siding with the Tyrells. So position of the Tyrells is going to be interesting and the least predictable.
– This lead to the most difficult bit: We know there is going to be war with The Faith because of the trailer. The most likely scenario for episode 10 is a completely pissed off Cersei declaring war on the Faith, possibly with the Tyrell army and City Watch. This will lead to the death of poor Tommen at the Sept, most likely uncle Kevan before (I think Cersei might kill him because he tries to stop her), but it’s possible they will lose because the people of Kings Landing rise up against the armies. This the most likely scenario for Cersei to decide to burn everything to hell with the wildfire reserves underneath Kings Landing, as the totally bonkers season finale.
– When Dany finally arrives in Kings Landing next season, everything will lie in ash and snow. Which is a brilliant bit of irony only George RR Martin could come up with.
Do we know this? I can’t actually recall reading how dragon glass is made, even though the simarity in the name makes this likely.
pras,
Sandsnakes. They still want to take down the Lannisters for “vengeance”, etc.
Jamie will come back to KL to comfort Cersei after Tommen’s death. He may have to kill Cersei to stop her from using the wildfire, too. I don’t think they showed Jamie on the throne for nothing. Remember, Jamie considered staying on the throne when he last sat in it. Perhaps he will conquer KL again, but over his sister, and he and the Lannisters will be the ones the Starks and Targaryans have to battle before they can deal with the WW? Full circle realized.
Well, it’s obsidian, which forms naturally. Dragonfire itself might be able to make it, too: but I think that I’ve read that the heat from Saturn rockets could create obsidian.
Is Sam going to Oldtown anymore? Somehow, I don’t think that the Citadel is the wisest destination for him at this point with a stolen sword, his girlfriend (sorry, “whore”: and what a great society in which these concepts are synonymous) and a baby.
My question is: where will he go with it?
Huh, do you know: that is a really good point! Yeah, they do seem to have an uncanny ability to make fire die in their presence.
As for torching the wights, it is quite possible that the WW will force their way south: and by that time, their wight army will be huge. Mao supposedly said something to the effect of “Drop all the bombs you want, there will always be more Chinese.” This might be a similar tactical problem.
I’m not big on the theory that Bran drives Aerys mad because the Mad King’s descent is so nicely established as background. Similarly I’m just not a fan of the Tyrion Targaryen theory because it trades a lifetime of character development for a narrative conceit that’s already been put to better use.
But after Bran’s flashes I’m wondering if Aerys happened to get some prophetic abilities that appeared with (or subtly caused) his madness. In his last moments, was he just sort of naturally unmoored from time? Thinking the sack of King’s Landing was the white walker invasion? Channeling his daughter?
Cersei losing it and burning the city would make a lot of sense, but I wonder if Bran seeing that would be particularly necessary. Showing him where the wildfire is and the potential danger could be useful (especially if Bran gains the ability to change the future, or “rewrite the script”); giving him the details of something that’s going to happen and be thousands of miles away from the real fight…less so.
Do folks think we’ll see more Mad King flashbacks? I hope not, just because that looked like a shadowy NCW playing young Jaime. That’s fine for what we saw, but it’d be a bit jarring in a full scene (especially in a season where Robert Aramayo and Sam Coleman are doing so great).
Lead the wights and WW to KL and spring the wildfire trap.
There sure is a lot of emphasis on the White Walker baby. What’s up with that?
QueenofThrones,
Nah. I have other theories as to who they will kill.
Tommens death has to be Cersei’s fault in my opinion.
If you remember Dany’s visions when she was in the House of The Undead..she was walking through the Red Keep and it’s ceilings were gone.. I always knew KL was going to get toasted.. this just confirms it.
Mihnea,
Thanks for replying. Glad to know I’m not too far off base.
I was wondering if he’d die and then she’d set the wildfire or that she kills her own son and then burns the place down.
I was really intrigued by the visions when I watched the epsode but I don’t know what to make of them. The only thing I could think is that Wildfire could be actually used against the WW. Yeah many people probably thought about it ages ago, but it occurred to me just when I watched Bran’s visions.
QueenofThrones,
not sure about that ……I think it has something to do with Tyrells cersei and sparrows. …but what and how I can’t guess….
No One,
Ah, good point. So, Daeny might get there after Cersei has torched the place and with winter having come. That would make sense.
The books describe rock formations with obsidian in them. It’s bee a couple of decades since I did petrology, but you get obsidian from lava flows from very silica rich melts. Often it comes from melting sandstone or quartzites from surrounding rocks. Basically, obsidian is glass and therefore it has to cool very quickly: otherwise, it mineralizes into quartz. (The difference between quartz and glass is that quartz is a mineral and glass is technically a really, really viscous liquid: but very old glass windows will actually be thicker at the bottom than the top because the glass very slowly “flows” down.) That is why “dragonglass” would be an appropriate name: you would get it from volcanic flows.
Book!Stannis mentions that they rocks in Dragonstone have many veins of obsidian. Presumably that must have be a volcanic island. Well, it would if we could assume that GRRM knows low-level geology! However, it obviously occurs naturally, which is all that is really important.
A lot of people speak about dany’s first vision in HOTU ..
I will mention her second vision she has in HOTU…where she goes beyond the WALL ..
which shows that she will be fighting WW …just remember this vision before start going his she will become mad viallin and all other things ..
Even though iam strong believer in RLJ and believe he will be king in the end
I have to ask one question what do people expect to fall on throne room other than snow and ashes in the burned down place amidst a heavy winter season .
Dee
Arrggghhh.. tried to edit post and it wouldn’t let me.. seems that I keep forgetting to read the entire thread first before responding.. sorry.
Dee,
If the dragons burn the army and only the NK and his four horsemen are left that makes them ripe for swordplay with Jon or Brienne or other Valyrian steel carriers (Sam???)…
Some people seem determined to see Daeny as a future villain, or see her as someone destined to go insane. I never have bought this at all: she’s one of the two most primary protagonists, and her storyline parallels Jon’s so intensely that it’s basically like they are figurative twins separated at birth. (No: Daeny will not be at ToJ! However, I think that they are being setup to be part of a duality or even a trinity.)
Delta1212,
I think they cut back and forth to show as some people believe that the original 3 eyed Raven tried to warn Aerys of the WW and it led to him hearing voices and going mad.
QueenofThrones,
You would be surprised ..
I once read a theory that she will fight with Jon against WW ..
But once the war is ended she will just not let north to be free ..so Jon will end killing her .
Wimsey,
Now that you mention it…. I might be wrong.
Ice Spider,
don’t be 🙂
I, too, have long held R+L=J. However, in no way does King Jon follow from that. Jon could very well still be a bastard: and even if he technically is not, then getting the rest of the world to acknowledge it will be difficult at best.
But I also think that people are looking at this a little bit too much as if it is a standard fantasy, where getting the Throne is a big treat for the best “good” person. I would not be surprised if what we get is Jon and Daeny as consorts, living unhappily ever after wondering if there could not have been some less dishonorable final solution (a la Ned Stark).
Well, I suspect that dragons might be able to make obsidian. However, tectonics would be able to make a lot more! A planet with tectonics >>>> lots of dragons, after all! (I think that Valyria found that out….) 😀
What the fuck is a Lommy?,
IKR? “completely embody a character in 15 seconds or less” challenge accepted.
Fat ‘n’ Balda,
The standing person would be on the wrong side of the prone person, Robb was on Talisa’s left, not her right side.
Why? Why would Jon be committed to a “free North?”
At any rate, my bet is that the war against the Walkers will leave the North in ruins before Jon and Daeny figure out what it is the Walkers want and why they are back. We got a huge reminder of why this episode: “There’s no such thing!”
One could make just a good of a case that Bran influenced Jaime to murder/assassinate/execute/euthanize Aerys.* Bran seemed to be getting a massive download of past events and future possibilities. Bran might be able to influence the future events: but I doubt that he was influencing the past ones.
*: No, I am not suggesting that happened.
C-section hype
dragonbringer,
I agree with you …about dany .,I think she is the main protagonist. ..The person who would eventually end up on the iron throne..and if Jon survives I don’t think he would be interested in sitting on the iron throne ( I could be wrong) …maybe after she saves westeros …people will accept her ..without any terms and condition…
Mihnea,
I think it’s worth noting that dragonfire can melt/burn stone. That’s what happened at Harrenhall, causing its ruined state. I’m thinking that dragon breath is at least equal to creating magma temperature wise..
Too bad they don’t have pneumatic press jaws, you could feed one some coal & get your dragon to burp out some diamonds… JK JK
Wimsey,
Oh spare me the passive-aggressive language, Wimsey. “Some people” are not determined to see Dany as anything. It’s commonly known that the Targaryens are prone to madness, and Dany’s behavior is frequently over the top. She’s not the only character who behaves that way but she is the only one who possesses three dragons.
There is no conflict in what I said. Characters are gray, not black and white. Labeling anyone as “evil” is boring. Daenerys can save them all with her dragons, slay the White Walkers with her firepower, and still wind up a threat to other people or herself with the instability the books and show have teased before. Dany is a conqueror, and hasn’t proven she knows how to rule wisely. Her future is not a foregone conclusion by any means- hence it being speculation, not a spoiler.
Well, Daeny almost certainly will be stepping into a void. The last of Robert’s children will be dead. Cersei might be trying to cling to power, but she would have zero claim to the throne under the rules of primogeniture. Moreover, the Baratheon/Lannister regime would not be popular – it already is unpopular and things are getting worse and going to get worse – and nothing gets people longing for “the good old days” quite like that.
Given that there is no real “republican” movement in Westeros, and given the force that Daeny is bringing with her, the Targaryen restoration should meet with relatively little resistance. (I would not be surprised if she brings Dorne and the Iron Islands with her, too.)
Yes! I love it.
Actually we now have four VS swords in the running, which is the exact correct number for dueling White Walkers.
Oathkeeper, Longclaw – they have their owners, both already committed to fighting in the North (though there’s an outside chance Brienne dies and Jaime reclaims Oathkeeper).
Widowmaker – presumably Tommen has it. I hope Arya gets it somehow before heading to The Wall! She could wield it – as I recall it was pretty small.
Heartsbane – ???? Certainly not Sam, but otherwise I don’t know!
Hello everyone. These i think are all the frames:
VISION 1:
pyromancers
wildfire pot
dragon in flight
dragon shadow over KL
Mad King
Night King
Wight
Bran falling
sun rising over snow
Catelyn’s throat cut
dragon in flight
dragon shadow over KL
Danaerys and baby dragon
Baby held by WW
Night King walks to Baby
Night King
Baby goes blue eyed
Wild Fire
Dragon
Mad King
Night King
Wight
Catelyn’s throat cut
dragon in flight
dragon shadow over KL
Danaerys and baby dragon
Baby held by WW
Night King walks to Baby
Night King
Baby goes blue eyed
Ned Stark
Ned Stark beheaded
VISION 2
sun rising over snow higher
dragon in flight
dragon shadow over KL
Danaerys and baby dragon
Baby held by WW
Night King walks to Baby
Night King
Baby goes blue eyed
Murder of crows
Thornbush?
Pyromancers pouring wildfire
Wildfire pouring
Mad King on throne – “BURN THEM ALL!”
Wildfire explosion in vault
Pyromancers
Wild fire in pot
Jaime draws his sword at Mad King
Young Ned – “WHERE’S MY SISTER?”
Neds (?) blooded hand on a dress with a woman’s hand (?)
Jaime stabs the Mad King in the back
Roose stabbing Rob
Jaime stabs Mad Kings Body (long shot)
A bird in flight (eagle or falcon?)
Rob sinks to knees
Leaf creating WW
White Walker swings spear at Jon
Jaime sits on throne
Wildfire explodes up vault – “BURN THEM(?)!”
dragon in flight
dragon shadow over KL
Danaerys and baby dragon
Baby held by WW
Night King walks to Baby
Night King
Baby goes blue eyed
Shadow on wall of Jaime stabbing the Mad King in the back
Murder of crows
Leaf creating WW
Jaime draws his sword at Mad King
Wildfire explodes up vault
Wights chasing them
VISION 3
Bran falling
Pyromancers
Wildfire Pot
Pyromancers
Mad King – “BURN THEM / BURN THEM ALL”
Pyromancers and Pot and Vault sequence
Wights break thro at Hardhome sequence
Night King
Bran looking at Wights
and more wights breaking thro
Wights chasing them
Night King and wights
More wights breaking thro
Wight Horse
WW and wights
Wights rise from dead folk
Wights chasing
Wights breaking thro
Wight Horse
WW and wights
Night King looking down
Wight army
Bran
Bran grabbed by NK “BURN THEM ALL”
Wights chasing them
So i think Bran’s subconscious, using his new knowledge, is telling him to use wildfire against the Army of The Dead. If it were a normal dream that would be the interpretation.
OMGWTFHORSEYDRAGON??!!!! I’m in love with David Rintoul’s Mr. Darcy. I cannot believe I didn’t know he was appearing in this episode. Is this brand new information, or did we know Rintoul had already been cast?
(BTW, he is way too old for me at exactly my mother’s age and obviously gross as Aerys, but I’m in love with his 1980’s Darcy.)
I see people complain about this. If they wanted another actor they would cast one. They have 1000 extras. This wasn’t a vision of Bran walking in.,..it was a mix of things that happened, will happen, or never happened….like Kings Landing burning. They wanted NCW”s Jaime with short hair to sit on the Throne. They wanted Bran to see this. The reason? I don’t know. Bran also can’t see Jaime’s face on the visions he gets on the books.
I am just happy they connected Jaime as individual with the whole story again.
She just called a bunch of savages to invade Westeros, kill them and burn their homes.
People will love her.
she is not the main protagonist, more like one of the most boring characters, its always the same: giving speeches and burning things down.
Wimsey,
I agree with you …I too believe Jon will be just be snow for sometime now .
And even though I believe that danh may die at the end ..I think it’s possible to have them both survive and rebuild the kingdom .
After all we had gotten dany as mother ( bringer ) and destroyer ( khaleesi) and we should get the preservor or protector bit too ( queen)
Wimsey,
Well thats the same thing I asked the one who cAME up with that theory ..
It just people just want to have dany bad villain so jon can get to stab her .
Ridiculous I say .
Wimsey,
I agree with you …….you said it perfectly …
As many have mentioned, I too think Cersei will be the one to burn KL, likely AFTER the death of Tommen brings her to a point of being driven by undying vengeance. I can see this as being a very emotional death scene for Cersei, who I don’t think will long outlive her children. It would also put the city in ruins before Dany’s conquering, leading her attention then to the war in the north.
Regarding Dany’s S2 vision – are we sure that was snow in the throne room? For some reason, I remembering hypothesizing that it was actually just ash from all the burned ruin. I may be misremembering though.
It’s true that there is a strong parallel between Dany and Jon throughout the seasons, but we see striking differences between them. Dany thinks Westeros belongs to her, she wants to conquer it with fire and blood. Jon doesn’t want power. He never wanted to become Lord Commander, all he did was for duty. He died trying to save the world. He doesn’t even know he’s a Targ. If he becomes king, it won’t be because he’s a Targ heir or because he wants the throne, it will be because he saved the North from the WW and people respect him and believe he could be a great king.
When Dany kills her opponents, she burns them with a smile on her face. When Jon kills his opponents (the traitors who killed him), he does it with sadness on his face. They are very different.
And now Dany will conquer Westeros with her dragons and her horde of foreign murderers and rapists. That can’t go well. She’s not going to greet her nephew, she’s going to call him another Stark supported usurper and will want him burned.
She’s not a typical villain (because she’s not doing bad things in her mind), but she’s not the good princess who wants her throne back. GRRM will kill this trope before it’s over.
Yes, that is increasingly becoming clear, especially after last night’s episode, where Cersei seemed quite confident at the end. She will burn the Sept in order to completely root out the Sparrows, Tommen will not be able to bear it and kill himself, and then she will go mad and burn the Red Keep! 🙂
Hehehe….. I am a bit confused too. 😀 after the last episode, it’s become quite a fervent hope among some that since they showed Aerys wanting to burn down the city, Daenerys burnt some Khals who were pillagers and rapers, and she said she will take what is hers, all equal “SHE MUST BE MAD!!”! IMO, the imagery shows the White Walker threat, and the one thing that can truly stop them, dragonfire. Bran now knows the existence of Daenerys and her dragons.
One, I don’t think that is passive-aggressive! (I don’t really do “passive,” even in writing.) Two, I certainly was not referring to you! At least, I never have seen you post that you think that Daeny is the the true antagonist-in-waiting, or that she clearly has signs of insanity.
As for Daeny’s ruling skills, no she has not shown that she is a perfect leader yet. But (and as GRRM himself keeps stressing), this is not Lord of the Rings: people are not born with innate wisdom about how to rule. Is Daeny making mistakes? Yes But has she shown an ability/willingness to compromise and shift directions? Yes. If Daeny was showing that she was like, say, Stannis and completely unable to bend in order to accomplish her goals, then I would be very worried about her ultimate ability to be a leader-of-state. This is the difference between talent and skill: Daenerys has the necessary talents to be a good leader; she just needs to hone the skills without anything like formal training.
Sue the Fury,
Sue, I am just not really understanding how that plays out. After the battle against the White Walkers, which presumably is fought alongside awesome people like Jon/Sansa/Brienne/etc, she is then going to turn around and immediately threaten the people she just saved? Why? What’s her motive? I suppose if someone says to her that now she saved everyone, she is not wanted in Westeros and she should go back to Essos. But I fail to see why/how that would occur, unless it was by one of the remaining villains (in which case, good riddance).
I’m betting it’s Bran that drives the Mad King crazy, Hodor-style. Aerys believes that the WW are attacking, and he orders the pyromancers to “burn them all!” After all, they’re emphasizing how much Bran is unable to control his power (he’s not ready), and this would add another rationale for the Hodor moment. Hodor lost his wits and could only say “Hodor,” Aerys lost his wits and could only say “burn them all!”
Flayed Potatoes,
Who knew jon had even more in common with ceasar lol
Yes, thank you!
The gear/wheel icon in the lower right of a YouTube video can be used to set the speed even slower. I did a quarter speed for the first 20 seconds or so, although even then I had to pause a great deal, and half speed for the remainder of the video.
heh, there is a huge irony unfolding, isn’t there! Jaime kills the Mad King Aerys to save his family. Oh, and to stop him from burning Kings Landing to the ground, too.
And that paves the way for Mad Queen Dowager Cersei to completely destroy his family and burn Kings Landing to the ground.
Well, I suppose that postponing it all by 25 years counts for something.
pras,
People will already accept her before the battle..as she will be the one who uniting the remaining houses and humanity
But I believe there is more chance that she will eventually die fighting WW and Jon end up as king ..
Him being king is foreshadowed too much ..
*facepalm* All of these years, and I never realized that. You would have thought that I would have learned this by accidentally clicking it.
Well, I learned something new today! I guess that I can go back to bed….. 🙂
I thought it would be Cersei’s fault until this episode (I thought she would pull a wildfire explosion of the Sept of Baelor to try to take out Tyrells and Sparrows in a single go). Now, I think Tommen’s death will just will be something she’s powerless to stop. And then she’ll wildfire all the things.
Also, Sandsnakes are definitely coming back, IMO. Tommen is their last remaining target if they want the Lannisters to suffer. I don’t see what else they really have left to do besides kill him.
Maggie,
taim,
guys think about it ….when she lands in westeros ..imagine the situation ….war ..All around no regard for smallfolks life ….
winter white walkers threat ….she comes with an army ..With dragons …..ends wars …defeats white walkers …..
also the dothraki will change under her leadership ..when they followed khals …They did such things coz the khals wanted them to do such things …dany won’t allow it …and they wouldn’t wanna mess with dany …After what they have seen …so they won’t do it ….and as per killing goes …I don’t see her killing unless necessary. ….ok in mereen maybe she got a bit carried away but really …she is the person who kills baddies and helps good people …..and don’t forget tyrion is with her …He would know how to handle the nobles ….
QueenofThrones,
I will write my theory, on the sand snakes if you want but it has filming stuff in it….
QueenofThrones,
Why do they want to kill Tommen?
Didn’t they get their revenge already with Myrcella’s murder?
I would love to see an entire flashback scene of….
1) Lyana in the tower.
2) The Mad King and the Starks.
3) Jamie and The Mad King
My thanks also Sue and to Mayes T. As I mentioned in your ‘Sullied’ review, I missed a lot of that flashback included ALL the Mad King Aerys scenes and Jaime stabbing him in the back. The flashback video slowed down helped a lot as did the ‘stills’ from it.
Must be my age! I just can’t process and take in details that fast these days 😉
Wimsey,
In The Lord of the Rings, people are not born with innate wisdom for how to rule either. Aragon spent almost half a century leading the remnants of his people in the Northwest, and then led a party, and finally an army, to enlist the support of the cursed men, win the Pelennor and Minas Tirith, and eventually take on Sauron’s forces to the Morannon.
GRRM’s point was that Tolkien didn’t SHOW what Aragorn’s rule was like. Though as GRRM knows, Tolkien did start writing a Fourth Age story, where most magic had left the world, and it was full of petty evils and mundane politics. He didn’t enjoy it, and so he scrapped it. GRRM picked up where Tolkiem left off.
So many mischaracterizations of Tolkien among GRRM fans, when the truth is that the latter draws significant inspiration from the former.
I love this shot of Jaime on the Iron Throne, all badass and “I own this place.” I wonder if this is exactly how Ned found him:
Ginevra,
Thanks for the piece of knowledge for us less techi ppl…. 🙂
I don’t think they will be happy until all Lannisters are dead. Look how many of their ppl were killed. One death will not assuage their blood lust!!!
Wimsey,
I really hope this is the case. Having the dragons swoop down and wipe out all the White Walkers just like that would be… boring and too easy.
I hope they kill a dragon and reanimate it.
Mihnea,
And who do you think would they be? They want revenge on the Lannisters Gregor and the other minion who has already been killed who was responsible for the murders. That leaves Cersei Jamie Kevan Lancel Tyrion
dragonbringer,
that is a good point you make ..but one thing we do agree is that dany is a good person and she will help humanity and westeros …and dude …I think we have heard many times from her that she wants to go home ,,,and I think she belives westeros is her home and the iron throne is hers …so I think it is the main reason why she is trying to achieve it …not for lust of power …Our little dragon queen just wants to be home …..she is most definitely not a villain ….
Well, sometimes you do have both a King and a Queen! Both characters have shown themselves to be pragmatic and committed to some vision of “greater good.” Jon might be accepted as a Targaryean heir by some, but probably not all: some people would refuse to accept his legitimacy or his parentage (or both).
The counterargument to the idea of Jon and Daeny winding up together often is “It’s not that kind of a story to have such a happy ending.” However: why does it have to be a happy ending? This does not have to be Eliza Bennet and Mr. Darcy (who probably has a first name), riding off to a hard-fought love-ever-after. It could be an arrangement of pure pragmatism: if both have supporters, then a J+D “monarchy ticket” would be politically savvy, and certainly within the range of what we would expect the characters to do.
There are other possibilities, too. One idea that I like is that the Wildlings will declare Jon to be their “King Beyond the Wall (Currently on the Other Side)” or something like that. That way, Mel gets the King she saw in the flames: but just not in the way she thought it would happen!
ghost of winterfell,
Dragon glass is what the maesters call obsidian. According to Luwin or Aemon. Volcanic fires form it. And we know a lot of it is at Dragonstone
QueenofThrones,
they have a reason to kill him ….but they can’t do it ….I don’t think they are capable of pulling of such a thing ..Not in kingslanding ….tommen is too well protected for them ….
It’s just my speculation but now believe that Tommen is very, very much in Love with his wife and loves her more than anyone, including Mommy. Marg will probably die, and that will cause Tommen to kill himself. And that will devastate Cersei. Just karma all around…….. 😀
Darkrobin,
Filming and book stuff, you were warned.
He then will use his little birds to help the SS kill Kevan and Pycelle, perhaps even Qyburn but not so sure of him. As to create chaos and weaken the kingdoms for Dany’s arrival.
Only Diana Rigg being there is what throws me off. No idea what she would do there…
Sinequanone,
Thank you for breakdown. That was my thought as well
Because Dragonstone has lots of dragonglass and because of the name, I tend to think the smallfolk are correct. Plus, Hardhome’s episode confirmed that the dragonsteel that can kill White Walkers is indeed the dragon-forged Valyrian steel, so it would make sense that the only other known Other-killer is also dragon-forged. Of course, it is natural to extrapolate that dragons themselves will be excellent weapons against the White Walkers.
Wildfire would be a truly excellent weapon against the wights, yes, because fire seems to be the only thing that can end the wights. However, the White Walkers (Others) are immune to fire so that would likely apply to wildfire, as well.
One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches,
It would be tough to fit it in with GRRM’s many comments about how internal conflict should be the driving force of stories, too.
That written: if MB&W can find a way to have dragon flambe break Daeny’s (and Jon’s and Tyrion’s) heart(s), then I would be OK with it. I have no idea how that could be done: but that certainly does not mean it is impossible. As Tim Gunn would say: “Make it work!”
I agree. This is my guess too.
We shall see, Wimsey. We shall see – perhaps this season, even. I don’t recall The Bastard That Was Promised.
Fat ‘n’ Balda,
Does not look like it.
http://www.fourletternerd.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Game-of-thrones-red-wedding.jpg
Talisa wore a dress that covered her wrists, Robb did not wear armor to Red Wedding.
That is a very, very good point – thanks for pointing it out. I think it’s completely fair that 4 WESTEROSI swordsmen and women will need to kill 4 WWs, perhaps some even dying in the process (I wonder who the 4 swordfighters would be?) The wights will, by then, be swarming all over the place, causing untold death and devastation among all. So aerial dragonfire should be used to save them, and the general populace of Westeros. By the way, when the last baby WW was made from Craster’s son, there were 13 WWs. Three have been killed. There are more.
Mihnea,
Bran already has influenced past events when he created Hodor before Bran was born. Yes, it is a closed loop, but that’s exactly what people are talking about with the Mad King. We already know he’s mad: did Bran make him that way? Given what we know of Bran and this universe, it is possible, but I don’t think it likely. We don’t need a second fuckup from Bran. He learned his lesson well – or at least I very much hope he did.
Wimsey,
And to me there had to be a reason the Valayrians didn’t go beyond Dragonstone in conquering Westeros before Aegon
And I haven’t found you passive aggressive. There are others on this site who are very PA
Kay,
That could work!
Mihnea,
That makes sense. Thanks
Moka,
Exactly my words!! Comparing Jon and Dany is a bit odd, they are very different people. Jon is the respected leader, Dany is nothing without her dragons. She doesn’t know how to lead or rule
I would think that it supports the Maester’s arguments. After all, isn’t it basically described as being like a dormant volcano? Moreover, if you had a rocky unit with lots of rock with obsidian, and people call obsidian dragon glass, then wouldn’t “Dragon Stone” be a sensible name? We have names like the Glass Mountains for similar reasons. At any rate, obsidian does form more-or-less the way that the Maester’s describe, and in places that fit the description I seem to recall of Dragonstone.
This probably is all pretty moot, though. Nothing in the books or show indicates that natural vs. “artificial” obsidian is important. (There really would be no way for them to detect it: I think that we can tell how old it is by water content, but 1) they could not, and, 2) they could have “old” artificial obsidian whereas we cannot.) So, I doubt we’ll have some situation where a Walker is stabbed by obsidian to no avail, only to have someone somehow realize that they need dragon-made obsidian rather than volcano-made obsidian.
pras,
That’s exactly why she wants westeros ..
She sees its her duty as last survivor to take back what they lost ..her home ..
But sadly she will not find her house with red door and green hills because winter will be here..
I remember you saying how you are not interested in dany’s story. But still able to appreciate the character for what she is and use logical thinking of how events will unfold …
Don’t waste your time on trolls
Fabulous contribution; thank you!
Just one thing ~ the White Walker created by Leaf in the show is called The Night King, to differentiate him from the legendary Night’s King in the books, who was someone else.
Joseph Nobles,
How come Benjen knows the truth about Jon? It’s believed that only Ned and Howland Reed knew.
The final vision at Winterfell would be epic!
Fitzwilliam Darcy 😛
Their arcs run extremely parallel to each other, which makes it almost impossible to not compare them. And, seriously: how is Jon a respected leader? His own men assassinated him, and all of Westeros would consider him a traitor for letting Wildlings into the country. Moreover, how is Daeny not a respected leader? She has freed 1000’s of slaves and practically worshipped for it.
Of course, this is a leading pair of questions: the answer is that Jon and Daeny are loved by the same sort of people and hated by the same sort of people. That is part of the parallel between the two.
Moka,
You are an excellent example of those people who misunderstand Daenerys motives/actions on purpose because you want her to become mad/evil. Seriously, I don’t know what show were you watching or what books were you reading, but the things you described are delusional and pure Daenerys haters wishing.
pras,
You’re forgetting Tyrion and Jon. Would put them all up there and who will rule? It can go both ways. There might be actually foreshadowing for her death and reuniting with Khal Drogo and Rhaego. but that remains to be seen.
Wimsey,
This pretty much what fans want and throw Tyrion into it and we have it all. I can’t see George doing it, sorry. On the personal note, hopefully something like this or even triad of them won’t happen and it really is not in the bittersweet tone. Especially if we’re to believe her third one is for love. Pragmatic, loveless marriage is not really that likely in my opinion and for them to beat walkers, sitting on the throne as Queen and King, having kids is dangerously close to what you just said. Besides we don’t even know if both survive so here’s that.
You know maybe Margaery will kill Tommen and rule as Queen. It seems very obvious that she’s faking being reformed by the High Sparrow. And with Cersei being blamed for ruining two families maybe the Tyrell’s have had enuf. And this drives Cersei to burn down KL. But who knows, it could also be the Sandsnakes.
Wimsey,
I never liked the argument that its cliché or happy ending …I don’t know how people think that they will have a happy ending after all they have gone through..will they even recover from those wounds ..
On the other hand many may question his legitimacy but if dany one’s legitimacy can’t be questioned accept Jon as her family and son of his brother …then no one can question him .
Ginevra,
Of course its about dragon who was promised and there is only one dragon in the series .
Maggie,
Thanks for the reply! I was just thinking of reposting the question because I’m genuinely curious what others think. I totally agree that if they wanted another actor they could have gotten one, so I guess I should rephrase: I think they won’t have anymore Mad King flashbacks exactly because they didn’t feel the need to get a young Jaime.
And I think there are implications to there being no more Mad King flashbacks. Presumably, from the way it was cut and the way it is implied to be a necessary history crash course, Bran saw a lot more than we did as viewers (consider that he got in a day what we’ve gotten in 56 hours over six years…). So the things we saw him see have to be pivotally of the utmost importance.
What could be so important about seeing the Mad King if we aren’t going to go back to it? I’d venture that it was mostly to give the wildfire context and location. And what’s the point of giving Bran the location if he’s not going to send for it or something? While the visions could mean anything (and the Mad King bit could entirely be fan service), I just don’t see the use of showing Bran history he doesn’t directly benefit from or future he won’t directly be involved with.
As it is, Cersei finishing the holocaust Jaime prevented would be huge but not really Bran’s concern (yeah, yeah, he wouldn’t want a city to die, but he’s a little occupied with the continent). So I don’t really think that’ll happen, even as I acknowledge the groundwork has very much been laid.
I’m more inclined to think that the whole Mad King sequence of the vision was actually supposed to be about Jaime. It would be a mild explanation for why Bran saw a Jaime he could recognize, but it would also mean that the pertinent information, to Bran, would be that Jaime is the person who knows what’s up with the wildfire. It would be a lovely flat circle of time sorta thing if one of Bran’s greatest prophetic accomplishments was to send Jaime, who is partially responsible for Bran’s abilities, to conclude a vital mission he technically started before Bran was even born.
So I’m thinking that the wildfire explosion wasn’t the future, but the possible outcome that Jaime prevented. Bran would need that sort of perspective to work with Jaime.
If I’m at all correct. My mind is like the center of a sun right now, bouncing and fusing new theories around at a ridiculous rate. Which is mostly to say that I’m sure most of my ideas are either unstable in normal physics, or ridiculous fictional crap like flubber or unobtanium.
Flayed Potatoes,
D’oh! Right! I think that is a Trivial Pursuit question: after all, isn’t it given in the book only once or twice? (I last read it maybe 30 years ago.)
Still: if I had written “Eliza and Fitzwilliam,” would anyone other than you and a couple of others (I’d bet Ginevra!) have gotten it? Hell, I wouldn’t have!
Perhaps Margaery kills Tommen to rule by herself as queen. It seems obvious to me that she’s faking being reformed by the HS.
Some speculate that Benjen may have helped Lyanna run away with Rhaegar, although I’m not are of evidence supporting that.
Another possibility is that Lyanna asked Ned to tell Benjen about it, and to send Benjen to the Wall, foreseeing that Jon would one day be there too and need his help. That’s possibly supported by these facts:
* Benjen joined the Night’s Watch within months of Ned’s return
* GRRM has refused to answer the question of why Benjen took the black, and has said that’s “a good question”, and that some day we will learn the answer.
So somehow, the reason for Benjen joining the Night’s Watch is important to the story in ways we haven’t yet learned.
The most obvious way Benjen may have learned about Jon’s parentage is from the (former) Three-Eyed Raven, who knew all of history.
Well, it certainly does fit in with one classic cliché happy-ending! The main point is that it does not have to be. Of course, all that means is that we cannot rule it out from being part of GRRM’s “bittersweet” ending. There are lots of possible endings that we cannot rule out.
(Children of the Forest dancing around Wun Wun while Jon, Bran and Daeny burn the Night King’s body and see the relieved ghosts of BR, Ned Stark and Khal Drogo probably is out, however.)
Official material from HBO has referred to him as both the Night’s King and Night King, Night’s King coming first. I think Benjen used Night King last night. Your explanation seems like one fans may have come up with?
Maggie,
She was talking about the Lannister and their armies, not about the common people living in Westeros. And just because the Dothraki are a different culture, doesn’t make them “savages”. We have seen people from Westeros, “civilized” people killing, raping and torturing far more than the “savages”, as you call them.
Interesting that Jon Snow is not shown once, not once, in Bran’s visions. Even though so much of this vision are shots of Hardhome.
We see Daenarys and her dragons, we see Ned, Catelyn and even Robb but not Jon. The more I see of season 6, I more I come to suspect Jon Snow will have very little to do in the war that matters.
My theory is that when Cersei loses trial by combat, Tommen is executed as a product of incest. She is condemned too. Somehow she get’s a chance to ignite the wodlfire and goes out in a blaze of glory.
Sue the Fury,
Bran used it also last episode
Ryan,
Sorry for posting the same thing twice.
lewdvig,
Interesting
Wimsey,
Lol now I want to see this ..just don’t forget to add arya and tyrion amidst them.
And also one should not forget dragons and wolves
Wow, I found this Bender-Ender particularly revealing:
Wow. Horrified. Hitler. Yes, he’s saying she’s not Hitler, but he thought enough of the comparison to bring up Hitler. I hated to make a judgment call on Dany’s dips into the maniacal because of the way fans feel toward their favorites and because I’m not sure how much my personal preference plays into how I see her. But Bender is confirming that we should be worried. Horrified.
lewdvig,
Oh man, I am so into the idea that Cersei loses the trial by combat and Tommen is executed because it “proves” he’s an incest baby. I mean, it would be terrible and messed up in so many ways, but gloriously so.
I’m with everyone who thinks Margaery is faking her conversion. I further hope that she was so good at faking that the High Sparrow recognized a protege, revealed to her that he’s faking [to some degree], and set up a plot to put her on the throne. But then Dany shows up and Margaery pulls a Harlen Tyrell by trading power for favor (and then power anyways) with a Targaryen.
Oh let it be so! 😀
Fitzwilliam. Mr. Fitzwilliam Darcy.
Yeah, like other people have said, it’ll be Cersei who turns crazy and emulates the Mad King’s wishes with the wildfire. I’ve been convinced for a long time that her and Jaime are actually Aerys’ children, so the finale may well not only confirm Jon’s parentage, but that of the twins too. Aside from anything else, they seem closer than ever, and something is going to have to give so that he can become the Valonqar. I guess that’ll start with him meeting Brienne again. She’s the angel on his shoulder to Cersei’s devil. Then when he sees what his sister’s done to King’s Landing, he’ll have no option but to become the ‘Kinslayer’ yet again. After that, with her and (almost certainly) Tommen dead, his future lies with Tyrion and Dany. Probably as a dragon rider to make up for his lack of heroic deeds. That’s my predicted trajectory for him for the rest of the show anyway.
Finding Cersei guilty is not a reason to execute Tommen. Being born of incest isn’t a crime, certainly not a capital crime. He would be revealed as an illegitimate king, though, which raises an interesting dilemma as Robert has no other heirs with Stannis, Shireen, and Renly all dead. Someone related exists outside of the main branch of House Baratheon, but it’s not a character who has ever been introduced. I think we know who the people of King’s Landing would choose as their ruler: the High Sparrow.
Mihnea,
Dragonglass is just obsidian…
Adam,
You’re applying logic to fanatics.
Edit: also, kings aren’t usually just put out to pasture when deemed illegitimate. You win or you die, as someone once said…
Jenev,
Thank you! That’s very interesting – can’t wait to find out if Benjen really knows. I’m just thinking – if Jon’s parentage will be revealed by Benjen than TOJ flashback won’t be such a wow moment the writers are clearly aiming for (as it happens in ep 10)
Why stop there? Take Daenerys out the equation to be replaced by Jon Snow. There you have the thee heads of your dragon: The dwarf, the cripple and the bastard.
Tyrion will have the widest smile, I’m sure.
Sue the Fury,
Maybe it is like another famous Undead, Keith Richards. His name was Keith Richard, but he changed it because everyone kept writing “Keith Richards.”
(Yes, yes, I know: the Walkers are not “Undead.” 😀 )
That sounds like the answer to “what do you get when you cross Robespierre and Cromwell?
Boo yah! I did call it!. I claim 10 Internet Points!
(Seriously, didn’t your love of Jane Austen come up elsewhere? At least, I seem to recall it doing so.)
Sadly, we are kind of running out of dire wolves…..
BranTheBlessed,
So the main character who has been fighting wights and WW from season 1, won’t be fighting them in the end?
Not sure I’m buying this.
I’ve searched all of five Kindle books for “volcano” and “volcanic” and found nothing. The speculation might come from the obsidian, which of course is volcanic in our world but it might not be or might not only be in Planetos. Magic and magical creatures are eschewed by the maesters, so it would make sense that they would seek alternative explanations to dragons. And the commonfolk are uncommonly accurate in this story – at least in my reading. #TeamOldNan
A question I have is whether Brans visions are events that are meant to resonate with Bran personally, or that have significance with the audience, or are relevant in the grand scheme of things (ie the great war to come).
OT- has anyone seen next episodes trailer? At 31 secs we see someone limping through a field of corpses. Is this the Hound or Septon whoever? Interestingly it’s juxtaposed with Davos’ line; the dead are coming.
Well, yes, I’m wondering too if we watch the same show. Because in last episode there was a scene when Dany and Daario talked about the fact that she’s not meant to sit in a throne and rule, she’s a conqueror. In a previous episode she burned the khals with a smile on her face. There were some talks about being a butcher (or meat). Now she has an army of foreigners (rapists and looters), three dragons and a desire to conquer what’s “hers” (she said it herself several times, if you watch the same show you can’t have missed it).
I don’t hate her at all, in fact she’s one of my favorite characters in the show. I’m just stating the truth. Am I hating Tyrion when I say he’s a drunken dwarf who murdered his own father?
Maybe you cheered when Dany burned savages and slavers, but I don’t think you’ll cheer when she burns real gentle people from Westeros (or maybe you’re naive and you think everyone, including Tommen, Margaery, the Starks and Jon, will bow to her and surrender).
Every character in GOT had expectations/goals in the first season that were crushed since then. Every character except Dany. She’s the only character who wanted something in episode 1, and who is going to have it soon. Every viewer I know think that Daenerys is going to conquer Westeros and destroy the WW. Now do you really think it’s something George would do? Come on. Even the White Walkers are not the evil guys we thought, they are the victims of the Children (who were supposed to be the good guys).
Dragonbringer! I’m so thrilled you agree. There can be only one dragon: Jon Targaryen.
One Dragon to rule them all, One Dragon to find them,
One Dragon to save them all and leave the Long Night behind them.
Maggie,
There’s a lot of savagery, rape and violence in Westeros. They might not seem as savage but they do monstrous things too. But yes, Dothraki have the slave costume and all that but Daenerys is against that. She interfered in the past when she had no power, I don’t see why she wouldn’t again. Let’s hope it doesn’t turn out that way.
I know they don’t want to conquer anything but Jon let a bunch of “savages” through the wall too… Tyrion fought alongside the hill tribes…
I’m certain that at least two of my three very close female Harry Potter friends would have – and perhaps the third, as well. But they are kindred spirits indeed.
Dragonstone is described as smelling of sulphur ( ref: AWOIAF), and I think that it’s fair to say we are to assume that Dragonstone is volcanic in origin. At a guess I would say there was a “hot spot” ( e.g. like the Canary Islands) and the underlying plate moved over time so it is now dormant.
Wimsey,
I see your point here but Jon’s earned respect of the Wildlings and most of the Night’s Watch. Only a handful of men betrayed him. The rest of Westeros doesn’t know anything about him so of course they don’t respect him atm. However, I am sure we will see him leading the North at the end of this season. Dany, however, seems to be a good conquerer but a poor ruler. She’s got a big army and dragons but what did she really accomplish in Mereen and the other cities. Nothing but havoc in Mereen and the slavers got back to power in the other cities. It has to be Tyrion again who will calm things down. And don’t get me wrong – I am not a Dany-hater.
He’ll be fighting but I expect Daenerys ( or rather her dragons ) and Bran to make the biggest impact. How on earth could Jon stand up against the White Walkers as it is? His Valyrian sword as surprise-factor did the trick once but the Night’s King has seen it at play.
Today, I was ecstatic to learn that David Rintoul (former Mr. Darcy) was the Mad King in last night’s episode, and I shared a video of Rintoul as Darcy, when I was actually in TV-love with him. However, I’m sure we’ve discussed P&P before at least once a long while back.
I think the “Burn them all” will apply to the wights advancing south after crossing the Wall. It will be an aspect of her father, only put to much better use.
QueenofThrones,
I suspect the 4th carrier of the sword will be Benjen. This leaves us with Briene, Jon, Benjen and Arya… Arya’s training will turn out to be huge in the final 2 seasons as she joins the fray in Westeros.
Just a thought from a first time poster, but avid stalker on this blog. 🙂
I was telling people last week, that the 3ER uploaded his database into bran CPU. I knew it. The re emerging images of wildfire sure is a foreshadowing of things to come.
My thing is, have Cercei spoken about it before? Because she seems to be the candidate to do it. Actually thinking back, remember when she had that conversation with Tywin about people pulling at Tommen from all directions and tearing him apart. She said “I will burn our house down before i let that happen”. It will surely kill Tommen and maybe some key Tyrells. It probably will be the episode where she says….”I choose violence”.
I’m thinking that’s episode 8. I don’t think there will be a trial by combat. As in the mountain v the viper. They will come to take her and she will go ape shit, having Qyburns birds go stabby on the high sparrow. And zombie mountain kill lancel and his gang. Cercei lives through the wreckage lol.
Ginevra,
Lol being targaryen doesn’t make you a dragon..
See viserys and other targs for example ..
Of course there is one who has been called LAST DRAGOn in the books and living embodiment of house targaryen and three heads of dragon
I know you won’t consider that
double_trouble,
The slavers bay arc is not over is it ..
Tyron didn’t do anything …in fact he had been doing what dany did in the last book ..
Comeback and complain when she actually kills common people..
If tommen or starks oppose her then there will be war ..
It takes two sides to fight a battle..
So why don’t you wait and see how exactly it happens before start blaming her for the crimes she did not even commit
Gill,
And then dany can then concentrate on fighting the whitewalkers. Quick way to get that whole “throne” business out of the way to concentrate on the real war.
All this stuff is good stuff, thought out, potent. Im most intrigued by what we assume is young Ned standing over his bloody sister, Im in the R+L= J camp. My point is is this blood from child birth? was she murdered? I feel like this is most important info
Mihnea,
Yet another key point! KL is toast. She will have no battle but the one against the dead.
Oh, sorry: no, it is not called a volcano – I don’t think that they have that word – but it’s described in the same way that one would describe a dormant volcano if one in terms of the rock types, shape of the island, etc.
I do remember that Stannis says that obsidian is deep in the tunnels underneath the island. That obsidian certainly would be “natural” (as opposed to “dragon-made”) as dragons could only be responsible for “tekkite” obsidian on the surface. Of course, if there were a lot of dragons on a volcanic island with a lot of granitic or quartzitic rocks, then we would expect both tectonic and draconic obsidian.
But, again: I suspect that this is all going to be irrelevant, as I doubt that one type of obsidian is going to be any different from another insofar as the Walkers are concerned.
Well, some in the North now know that he let the Wildlings into the country. The Umbers respected the decision so much that they turned Rickon over to the Boltons. Do not be surprised if the Umbers are not alone in this reaction.
(Indeed, I was surprised at how vehement Tarley’s reaction to the Wildlings was in Blood: I knew that Northerners hated the Wildlings passionately, but the sneering comments about the Wall from southerners made me think that they did not take Wildlings seriously.)
And yet she has the adoration of the common folk. Yes, that is waning: but it exists. Moreover, and this is the key: why on earth would you assume that Daeny’s skills now reflect the extent of her talents? Again, this is not Tolkien! Leadership is something that one learns. Daeny is an idealist, but idealists need to learn to compromise: and we have seen indications that Daeny has realized that. If we had seen Daeny act like Stannis, then we should be worried. Instead, we have seen her try to find middle ground. And that is the hallmark of a good leader.
Remember, this is a character drama. The story comes from how characters evolve, not just from how they are initially developed.
dragonbringer,
She will have no battle but the battle against the dead. Cercei will roast KL with the wildfire, Dany vision will come to past, sitting on a iron throne in ashes
Arya will come back home. Find “dark sister” in the crypts among other things. Wear the face of Roose Bolton and stick Ramsay with the pointy end. (deeper in the crypts will be statues of older starks… the patriarch of the family is Bran the builder… it will have the face of Bran Bran
Beer Island,
More like, not sitting at all. In the vision she refuses/leaves/abandon the IT to go beyond the Wall.
I found that curious too, as well as the omission of anything to do with Cersei and Tyrion; three big players of the present.
I think Grey Worm, Missandei and the freed slaves of Meereen would be able to answer you well.
QueenofThrones,
Burn them all , meaning the WWs army I think.
I’ve been trying to read through an awful lot of posts so I may have missed discussion on this.
The assumption/theory has always been that Lyanna died in childbirth but that brief glimpse was of someone wounded. Who would have done that to Lyanna? Until the point where Ned enters the tower she had been guarded successfully by the Kingsguard.
A Caesarian birth occurred to me but I couldn’t see that anyone would have attempted such a procedure on her, knowing it would kill her. There’s been nothing to suggest that anyone with Lyanna was there to do anything but protect her.
Any thoughts on the image of “sun rising/setting over snow covered rocks”? Its a recurring image; season 1 (when bran was bedridden), season 4 (when bran touches the weirwood tree and he is shown TER’s home) and now. Is it the fist of the first men, where the crow’s found dragonglass daggers or is it the land of always winter (which has to be furter north)?
Halfman,
They could have resorted to a C-section to at least save the baby. She might not have made it after a natural birth for all we know….
Halfman,
If Lyanna were doing really badly with the labor and thought she was dying anyways, it’s very plausible she willingly had Jon cut out. Even if she wasn’t in immediate danger herself she could have done it to save the baby. I was a c-section because, after 36 hours of labor, I started coming out breach and blue. A Westerosi midwife would know that meant c-section or dead baby.
Edit: aaand beaten to it. Flayed Potatoes, you’ve seen the Sausage Party trailer, yes?
Mihnea,
And Valyrian Steel was forged in Dragon fire too…
double_trouble,
She doesn’t have the support of the rich but seems to me the common people respect her for what she did for them. She makes mistakes yes but tries to compromise.
And I think we’ve seen enough to say that she is nothing without her dragons… For most of the story her dragons were small and vulnerable and yet she managed to free the slaves of three cities. You can argue she used a dragon as payment (trick) for the unsullied but other characters have other thing they can barterer.
What’s to show? Ned walking up the stairs?
double_trouble,
She doesn’t have the support of the rich but seems to me the common people respect her for what she did for them. She makes mistakes yes but tries to compromise.
And I think we’ve seen enough to say that she is nothing without her dragons… For most of the story her dragons were small and vulnerable and yet she managed to free the slaves of three cities. You can argue she used a dragon as payment (trick) for the unsullied but other characters have other thing they can barterer. Hell, she even chained two of her dragons.
The fact that Lyanna seems to be lying around with a massive wound is pretty interesting. It opens up certain questions, like did she have a maester with her? Or who was with her? Or did Ned actually had to cut the baby out?
That would be pretty bad for Ned.
Dany and Jon does often have parallel arcs. But they are also sometimes complete opposites. In one of the inside the episodes videos D&D described Dany’s moment with the Dothraki as fire, while they described Jon’s resurrection as ice. So there is similarities, but these similarities also shows how they are completely opposites at times.
Dany’s scene with the Khals, and walking out of the fire was also a very big and flamboyant display. While Jon’s resurrection by comparison is almost underwhelming.
I dont think Dany is a villain or that she will go mad, but it is looking more and more like she will be an antagonist within Westeros. Once again her speech last night against Westeros felt like it will lead her down the road of being an antagonist.
By the time Dany arrives in Westeros, Cersei will have destroyed the Red Keep, and a lot of Kings Lands. The Riverlands, Stormlands and Crownland are practically in ruin. The Tyrells could also very likely be almost destroyed at that point. The only opposition left for Dany will be the Starks – Jon & Sansa.
One reasons why I never completely believe Jaime’s redemption arc, is some of the times when he does not take action. Jaime is frustrated at people like Ned who sees him as the Kingslayer. Jaime had a good reason to kill Aerys, but his actions or non action afterwards, gives some of these claims some validity.
Jaime was basically the only person left who knew that Kings Landing was stashed full of very dangerous, highly explosive wildfire. But after killing Aerys he never does anything about it. He could have tried to do something about removing the wildfire.
That is one big difference between characters such Ned and Jaime, Jaime just doesn’t take enough responsibility. I think someone like Ned would have tried to locate and destroy the wildfire.
If Cersei’s actions and madness does ignite the wildfire then Jaime is partly responsible, because he should have tried to do something with the knowledge that he had.
Kilgore Tully,
I haven’t. Should I? lol I thought it was a porno because of the name.
Halfman,
There doesn’t appear to be any wound, just a lot of blood. A lot of blood around the hip/groin region. It could feasibly be from a fatal loss of blood during childbirth.
Boudica,
If she was out there giving birth she had to have had some maester and some handmaidens to help. I hope the show won’t imply that the Kingsguard would deliver the baby lol.
Moka,
Excellent argument. IMHO, am feeling an almost palpable shift in Dany and really wonder if– as the daughter of the Mad King –she will in the future, also succumb to madness. There’s just something going on there with her I can’t put my finger on.
What I want to know is how Benjen managed to keep control of his horse when he was wrecking down the wights. Wasn’t there something about horses( and other animals ) losing all their senses when the dead approached them?
BranTheBlessed,
Actually Jon does appear in the visions but they never show his face only his back. I think this might be on purpose because he will certainly play an important part in all this.
Everyone and their mother have been saying it’s a gash. I should just let it go. I need to let it go. But it’s not a gash. It is a crease in the blood-soaked linens that has caught the light (being higher than the rest of the sheets) and is glistening.
#notagash
Even the name makes a girls toes curl **sigh**
Flayed Potatoes,
I had similar reservations, but no, not a porn. Just an absurd idea that Seth Rogen almost certainly had while blazed out of his mind. There’s a sequence in the red band trailer that you’ll love.
Almost certainly it is blood from child-birth. Women used to die in child-birth fairly frequently (it probably was a, if not the, leading cause of women dying) because human baby heads and birth canals are just about the same size.
Presumably there was a Maester there: but if there was a major tear, then they simply would not have had the technology to deal with it. Besides, in this society, the attitude probably was “eh, you can get another wife….”
zarf21,
I don’t understand why people are attributing targaryans parentage as to them being cruel or not. They have had good kings, bad kings, neglectful kings and cruel kings. Maegor was cruel and vengeful, but before that you had Aenys I who was not like that. Both were sons of Aegon I and he was a good king, But both mostly took on characters of their mothers. Not to mention Rhaegar was also the mad kings son, and he wasn’t like that.
Kilgore Tully,
Ok I just saw the red band trailer and now this movie is on my to-watch list. Are you referring to the scene where the potato gets peeled? Because I loved everything in the trailer lol.
Sure, but those are just parallels done with two different themes: Jon does it “ice,” Daeny does it “fire.”
And this is a story! Storytelling is an artform, and we need imaginative abstraction. So, what we want is comparable, not identical: but the points that are really important (Jon’s and Daeny’s Phoenix imitations, which we also are seeing in Tyrion, Sansa, Bran and Arya) can be described in the same general terms.
A lot of focus on baby White Walker…
How fast do they grow up? Is he a White Crawler or a White Toddler by now? Is there a White Walker Daycare for him to stay at, or does he spend his time raising armies of undead squirrels?
Maybe somewhere, far to the North, there’s a Winterfell made of snow where White Walker children of various ages spar with regular steel swords, and tell each other to keep their shield up…
Flayed Potatoes,
if this is caused by the birth then something must have gone amazingly wrong. I could buy medieval c section horror story with big dose of infection and fever.
Poor girl.. Ned seeing her like that, he would have promised anything at that moment to even give her a second of peace.
Flayed Potatoes,
Yup. I pretty much read everything you post in an Irish accent because of that part.
Good point! Don’t both the book and show refer to Targaryens being coinflips between madness and greatness?
At any rate, we do not need Targaryen ancestry to explain Cersei. She was raised with a sense of superiority to everything and everyone. Whereas some aristocrats seem to install some sense of obligation into their progeny, all Cersei got was a sense of entitlement: people exist to serve her with no reciprocity required. That comes up when people point out to her that it’s the job of people like her to protect the peasants, and she scoffs at that notion.
But even here, we might blame the sexism of that society: had Cersei been raised as a potential heir instead of a bartering chip, then Tywin would have taken care to make sure that she learn that you needed both sticks and carrots to rule, not just sticks.
selena,
Yes, something did go terribly wrong. A key component to the R+L=J theory is Lyanna dying during childbirth.
Moka,
I think those were Daario’s words and not hers. I have doubts about the portrayal of the character in the show. I think they want us to see her as a badass and yes I don’t like it too and neither do I like when Arya smiles while killing someone.
I think there’s a lot of rapists and savages in Westeros too, I understand what you said but it’s not like she is bringing the evil to a peaceful realm. Yes we can say the Dothraki are rapists and looters but it wouldn’t be the first time that Daenerys stands up for what she believes (she already did before she was in a position of power). I don’t know if she will do more harm than good but I don’t think she will just burn everyone who stands in her way. Remember Tyrion is by her side and he knows how to play the rich.
She had her goals crushed many times, she just doesn’t give up. And I don’t think she will have what she wants either. King’s Landing will be in ruins and even if it won’t I think she will never feel at home anywhere she goes. I have a feeling she will have a tragic end.
selena,
They might have had to resort to a C-section simply because the baby wasn’t positioned right. It would explain the “bed of blood”.
I’m looking at this thing from the British Library about C-sections in the Middle Ages and it’s pretty interesting. http://www.bl.uk/learning/timeline/item100531.html
I guess we will find out soon what is in the tower. I’m so, so curious. I’ve always thought it was a simple fever, but who knows at this point.
Speculation on causing the Mad King’s madness is missing the crucial fact that Bran was warging into Hodor in the present WHILE ALSO observing him in the past. I think it was the loop that caused the seizure and created “Hodor.” It seems really unlikely that the 3ER, or Bran, or anyone else, was actually warging into the Mad King in the present. So… I dunno.
I guess I’m in the minority who want Arya to become no-one. If she runs away to be Arya Stark, then what was the point of all this Braavos storyline? It’d be even more tedious than Daenarys’s Essos exploits. And what? Arya to go back to Riverrun so that we get to see another painful Stark death? As Old King Robert would say, “Piss on thaaat!”
Tbf I’m not even sure the Waif is on her way to kill Arya. Jaqen and the Waif’s exchange in this episode was ambiguous. Perhaps this was some sort of test, for all we know.
Maybe it’s been mentioned but it’s nice to see they didn’t create a continuity issue with the Iron Throne and the window behind it. I was going to say that they did when I noticed it’s the same in this Mad King vision as it currently is, which is also how it looks in the ruined throne room in Danaerys ‘trip’ via the Temple of the Undying. Then I remembered Joffrey’s remodel to start season 2 and his words, “turning this room to its proper appearance.”
As a reminder, in season 1 the entire thing was intricate stained glass. Easily seen when Ned gets to KL and confronts Jaime: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yOrvMZigHY
Really? With the way the Waif has been bitter, jealous, demeaning and angry at Arya the whole time you don’t think that she was hoping for failure so she could be eliminated?
She told Jaqen that Arya failed as she expected and Jaqen said, “Shame. The girl had many gifts.” The Waif says, “you promised me,” to which Jaqen nods and says “don’t let her suffer.” Jaqen already told Arya that there would be no third chance and one way or another a face will be added to the hall. I think it was pretty clear by Arya getting Needle and hiding rather than returning to the HoBaW that she knows the Waif is coming after her. It wasn’t ambiguous at all in my opinion.
Kilgore Tully,
lmao this is killing me
Jon could be King in the North, which would include the former Beyond the Wall, while Dany could be Queen of the South…
Thank you Ginevra. I’ve just found your other posts on the subject after I posted above. Good job you have the equipment to take a better look. That makes more sense to me now.
On a slightly different note, when watching the Behind the Episode footage, I was struck by the time and effort made to create wonderful scenes with prosthetics and CGI which they the broadcast in almost total darkness and very fast and much of their attention to detail is then lost on me as a viewer. I saw far more of what went on in the cave from the behind the scenes footage. Seems a bit crazy that the whole thing ends up so dark and quick, you can’t really see a lot of what actually happens that they’ve spent so much time and money on.
Ginevra,
By wildling customs, Jon is definitely a prince.
Slightly off-topic –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06T3aEYC9iI&t=4m39s
this is the first time I saw Kit himself suggesting that Jon will end up on the Iron Throne. And for some reason this makes me so happy.
Skillz.
Plus, I’m half expecting that she’ll kill the Waif and Jaqen will show up to explain that Arya is free. It satisfies the whole “One way or another the Faceless God will take a life” thing while also meaning she’s out of chances to become no one.
That, or even that killing another Faceless Man is considered the “final test.” The way they have made the Waif generally subservient to Jaqen makes me think that she’s supposed to still be in training, albeit further along than Arya, and her antagonism makes a lot of sense if she thinks killing Arya is her last step.
Dunno. But even if it’s not an official Faceless Man policy, being able to take out the Waif would mean Arya has gained a ton of skill and experience up to this point.
Kay,
Check again. He’s there fighting that White Walker at Hardhome.
BranTheBlessed,
It could be a test and the Waif is really set to kill Arya who knows. To me the Braavos and the the Hound storyline served the purpose of showing Arya just how much people’s perceptions of events can be twisted, how people misjudge the circumstances and reasons of other people… She might let go of her idea of vengeance or justice and make something good out of her life. If it goes this way I think it will be interesting. Since early on, I thought her arc would be only about vengeance and I feared a really bad outcome for her.
The youtuber ideasoficeandfire had an interesting theory, where he discusses the fact that The Three Eyed Raven (the old one) did not admit to Bran that his father could hear him in the first Tower of Joy-flashback. He thinks the old raven was related to the Mad King, and that he tried to warn him of the WW. Thats why the MK was obsessed with fire (Burn them all). But since the old raven was not visible to the MK and possibly the MK not able to understand everything the old raven said, he got the message mixed up/turned crazy and burned others (like Stark father and son) instead.
It would be a shame if Arya killed the Waif… and inconclusive? Would the faceless come after her? or would Jaqen merely take the dead Waif as ‘in one way or another a face will be added’ and Arya free to go her merry way?
Anyway, its hard to make absolute sense of the faceless men-their words and actions. From the beginning they’ve been all about mystery and manipulation. Unwise to take the words of a faceless man on face value!
Flayed Potatoes,
Thanks for posting that. It is pretty horrific, but useful to know.
Well, the key is that she dies. I think that most of us assumed that it was because of childbirth because lots of women in that level of cultural advancement would die in childbirth (or as a result of it), and that made it a nice simple explanation. I do remember that some people (or perhaps it was just one emphatic poster, and at a different group, not this one!) thought that Ned wound up stabbing her in a fit of rage upon learning the truth. I never bought it, as Ned simply did not seem to be impulsive: one could see him have one of those “slow fuse” fits of anger, but not the snap reaction ones. However, that is based on Ned as we knew him years later: I suppose that he could have changed because of it, so we could not (and still cannot) completely rule it out.
It might well wind up being comparable to the “point” of Jon dying and coming back, or Daeny being taken by the Dothraki and coming back. Indeed: I would sort of hope that it is!
I wonder if Arya can somehow “pass” this test and get Jaqen to go Raven on the Freys or something…..
OK. It’s interesting that Jon is shown once, only once….
Sorry, I cannot help myself sometimes.
(Hey, so damn much happened in this sequence that it was tough to catch it all. However, I did play the lotto numbers that came up. Has anybody else?)
How though? If she leaves behind service of the many faced Gods, there’s only one place she can go-back to her brother and sister. Then it’d be more of the same, vengeance against Ramsay, getting back the north, followed by more warring against those in KL.
For me, Arya’s journey had been a refreshing change from the tedium of the battle between Kings. But I suppose it can’t go on.
He was related to the Mad King as he was a Targaryen by blood. He was Brynden Rivers, legitimized bastard of Aegon IV Targaryen.
Regarding Bran’s Red Wedding flashbacks, I just rewatched the whole scene and found this beautiful song. Check it out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PKSEvydKcE
I cried a little, I admit it.
Wimsey,
I think it might be on purpose! He appears more than once but only his back is visible. Daenerys just appears once or twice too.
Its not only this sequence that had almost too much intel, the whole season is moving pretty fast so far and its quite amazing to see how D&D managed to compress so much input and excitement into so little time.
And although Jon was only briefly shown once in this vision and not even focused at him i wouldnt read too much into that. Maybe the producers just want us to see that there are more heroes in this show than just Jon. Or they are simply building up tension for the huge reveal in the finale.
lewdvig,
Isn’t Cercei strangled by her little brother according to the witch’s words to her as a child?So not sure about her burning KL in a fit of angst.
You know shit’s gonna go down when Cersei is being too calm.
And people called me a fool for being most excited for King’s Landing this season.. Holy. Cow.
Of course I was hyped for Bran’s visions, but we knew he would have the ToJ-vision, so we kinda knew what to expect. Before the season began, we had nothing on KL aside from the Sept-scene from todays episode, and it did not disappoint. And now we’re consistently getting trial by combat nods AND premonition wildfire explosions??? HYPED!!!
This is such a great breakdown. It was so quick that you can miss some things.
GRRM said a while back that Danaerys, Jon, Tyrion, Bran and Arya are THE main characters… or at least, initially they were. Seeing as how Arya is his wife’s favorite character I think he’s got some big plans for her in his books. They’ve invested a lot of time in following her individual story on the show so I don’t foresee any way Arya doesn’t get out of her mess with the Faceless Men. I actually kind of like the idea of her killing the Waif, returning to Jaqen and he ‘releasing’ her in some fashion.
I personally don’t go with the idea that this Jaqen is not the initial Jaqen (on the show). I know they have thrown magical switch-a-roos in for mysterious purposes but he still wears the same face inside the HoBaW and knew everything about Arya. Having said that, I think he has not only some unfaceless man feelings for her but he also knows what she’s been through and maybe even feels like he owes her a bit of a debt and lets her go when they agree she’s not made out to be a FM.
I donno… Did you guys watch the inside the episode? They compared her speech last night to Hitler declaring war on Poland. At the very least they’re trying to add fuel to the “Dany as a villain” theories…
The other problem with this is that, given Westerosi noble morality, seeing revenge against the people who hurt your family is making something good of your life. Failing to do so would be dishonorable. And nowhere do we see some “theme” of rising above it that is somehow rewarded by the gods.
DanTheMan,
My thought is that they are setting up that Jaime stopping the Mad King from burning Kings Landing is the first in the chain of events that leads the Mad Dowager Queen to burn Kings Landing.
We could be in for one hell of a finale. I would not be surprised to have:
1) Kings Landing go up in fire;
2) The Wall (or a big chunk of it) reduced to many blocks of ice;
3) Ned find Ashara Dayne in ToJ with their baby…… 😀
ThroneDorne,
Eh, I suspect that it is just a case of something being a good example on one hand and a very bad example on the other hand. But there are some key things to note about Daeny’s speech: unlike Drogo, she promised nothing about raping women or enslaving children. She kept the parts that she liked, and excised the parts that she did not: but she got the natives all riled up nonetheless.
BranTheBlessed,
Nope. He’ll be the one running Westeros in all the downtime when Dany starts her full name and finishes it, which will be most of the time.
Wimsey,
Re: #3 – Who? Lol
Can anyoNe verify if the Mad King went mad on his own accord OR IF. Bran has anything to do with him going mad? I.e. Warging in and out of his mind? Somewhat like he did with Hodor???
Anyone have any opinions the shots of sunrise in the far north? Are we maybe seeing a shot of the final finale of the whole series? The sun rising after the battle for dawn pt2??
No one can “verify” this right now. There hasn’t been any solid connection made in the books or show(to this point). Aside from a few passing mentions of the MK hearing “whispers”…But it is a theory that’s been out there for a while and in my mind has been gaining more and more traction this season.
Mihnea,
Exactly. Cersei won’t give a rat’s about anything once Tommen’s dead. Ooh, unless Jamie AND Tommen are dead. Then she’ll REALLY go bat crap crazy.
Dee,
Ashara Dayne, sister of Arthur Dayne, a legendary beauty with whom Ned was supposedly infatuated. She also had a thing with his older brother Brandon. According to what is probably the second most popular fan theory regarding Jon’s parentage, Ashara is Jon’s mother. Whether the father is Ned or Brandon in this scenario is debated among the community, but most lean towards Brandon.
Jon having been nursed at Starfall, the seat of House Dayne, is one of the pieces of evidence that is often brought up. Many in Westeros speculate that Ashara is Jon’s mother, including Cersei and Catelyn.
Interestingly, Catelyn recalls that Ned only ever got angry with her once during their marriage : when she asked him if Ashara was Jon’s mother, to which Ned very coldly replied “Never ask me about Jon”.
Of course all of this is moot since Lyanna and Rhaegar are his parents 😉
Markus Stark,
Interesting
Can’t wait to read the books one day
But yeah that’s definitely not true cause show only fans don’t even know who that is. And this is one subject that D&D are not veering of the book from
Poor Cat. All this time she thought Ned was unfaithful. It’s hurts
Dee,
Yup, if this theory were true, Ashara would have been mentioned seasons ago.
But indeed, you will enjoy reading the books one day 🙂
Yes, Cat is one of the more tragic characters, and reading things from her perspective (inner most thoughts and all) is particularly heartbreaking. Can’t even describe how difficult it is to read the Red Wedding when you’re basically inside her head.
What if Lyana Stark never gave birth to anyone , and in fact Ned really did cheat with Wylia. What if the starks are not so innocent, the story of Ned killing the sword of the morning Howard Reed stabbed him through the throat, he would eventually bleed out and die, Ned does give the final blow, Bran said he heard the story 1000 times and there was no mention of Howard Reed , Ned, the honorable man took all the credit and the glory for himself. I am probably 100% wrong just , having a little fun
Dragonglass is just regular obsidian, no necessarely made by dragon fire
QueenofThrones,
I’d enjoy the Hound backing up Jon in a battle. I just enjoy a good swordfight in anything and it seems like Kit Harington has done a lot of training with this so would like to see Jon Snow strut his stuff against the NK.
Baelor’s Sept will burn (Cersei’s plan). That’s my guess.
It hadn’t occurred to me until now, that wildfire can also be used to kill the wights, though not the White Walkers and the Night’s King, of course. For that, real dragon fire will be needed.
As ThroneDorne said, there’s no way to verify anything. But the books put down a pretty solid explanation, and one that Barristan witnessed first-hand. Aerys was kidnapped for a while and came to think even his closest supporters “let” it happen. He didn’t cut his hair and nails because he didn’t trust blades to be around him, started blowing through advisors for petty reasons, and thought his own son was plotting to depose him. Which was probably true; but because Aerys had already been losing it gradually.
Still, it’s possible that it could have been a longer magical plan to drive him crazy (I suppose). But there was no sudden seizure that left him with an aphasia, like with Hodor.
Mohamed of House Baset,
I hoped he would have done the same Ashe did to the mad king but the images show the Fire burning so he didn’t. Bummer.
ThroneDorne,
are you talking about the 3rd or 4th pic? ” glimpse of the cold moving over the North” one? thats not sunrise IMO, thats the Long Night Starting (Walkers hitting , and crossing through, The Wall)
Markus Stark,
Yeah just waiting for book six to come out 🙂
So true 🙁
Oh god
Is it told from her head
*shivers*
pop of the tart,
If I am not mistaken, Ned said Howland saved his live during the fight, just didn’t tell anyone how exactly it happened. He didn’t take all the credits for killing Dayne
I will just write down my prediction, for the record, before reading too many of those made by other watchers.
The wildfire explosion is one of several possible futures.
Following Tommen’s death (gold will be their shrouds…), Cersei will loose her mind for good and will want to burn King’s Landing to the ground with everyone in it (especially the sparrows).
Having seen the reason for Jamie to kill the Mad King, Bran will somehow recruit him to stop Cersei. In order to do so, Jamie will need to kill (strangle?) her. Afterwards, the Valonqar Jamie kills himself. As for Daenerys’ vision in the House of the Undying, whose to say that its true ? Or it could be the result of dragon fire (following the dragon’s flight over the city that we also see in Bran’s vision. Wildfire will be too precious in the wars to come to be wasted by a Queen mad with grief.
Of course, my predictions turn out to be wrong all the time…
Did anyone think it was telling that Arya, Sansa, or Thyrion weren’t in Bran’s vision ?
Yes! That’s the one… It’s hard to tell from the screen shot but if you watch the video it’s def showing a sunrise in fast forward. I guess for all we know at this point it could be a sunset being shown in reverse… Maybe we’ll see it played forward when the NK passes thru the wall as you said.
I can’t believe with how many answers we’ve gotten this season they’re doing just as good of a job setting up more “questions” for the future.
Such a good show.
Ice Spider,
Beer Island,
She doesn´t sit on it in her vision…not even touches it because she answers her dragons´calls…she will never sit on it
Scarlett,
yes, because the visions had a purpose, a reason and it was to show Bran what needed to be done and what (or who) was needed to do it. Most of it is self explanatory (wildfire and dragons to fight ice zombie army) but two things interested me..
TOJ shots-this is the most obvious it has ever been made that Jon is essential for end game. ..valyrian steel plot armor acquired..he is here now for the long run..
Jamie killing Aerys -havent figured it out yet, but its obviously important..Jamie himself or what he did?
This is great! Awesome job! Interesting that so many of shots of the dragons being born were shown back to back with the baby WW… The whole thing goes by too fast to give it much thought even when watching in slow motion.
I think that’s why Cersei really told Jaime to get out of Dodge. She’s got the wildfire thing planned out already, so if he’s not there:
1. He won’t be able to stop her
2. He won’t get killed
3. There will be a direct-descent Lannister left to keep the family going.
Mohamed of House Baset,
“And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.” TV Maggy didn’t continue with these words, though it doesn’t mean it won’t happen. And in that s2 vision the throne room was in ruin, the ceiling/roof at least partially gone.
It is indeed her POV chapter during the Red Wedding. It’s chilling.
Do we have any idea where the wildfire would be/is stored? Was that mentioned back in S2 when it was going to be used at Blackwater? Obviously it could cause a massive explosion but if it’s miles from anywhere the damage would theoretically be more limited than if it’s under the throne room for example, or somewhere else with lots of people around/potentially collapsible buildings? I know I’m applying modern day health and safety standards here but would the pyromancers have the foresight to think how dangerous it could be if it went off by accident/someone sabotaged it, or just think meh, we’ll just stick it in the nearest available storage space? Come to think of it, do we have any idea how much, if any, was left after Blackwater? So many questions…
Edit: if someone wanted to blow up the whole of KL, presumably they’d need it to go off in a few locations, not just one?
BranTheBlessed,
Good question! I don’t have any idea how her storyline is going to tie up with the rest. I like the idea of another Stark reunion though. But yes you have a point, war is a constant in this world it would be difficult to avoid it.
KG,
Oh God
I really think the idea that Bran is seeing Wildfire exploding in the future may be reading too much into it… none of the other images are of the future
I think its more likely the program makers have stuck that image in cos it was needed to tell the story… perhaps there was an explosion of wildfire somewhere in the past that was contained.
Also I really dont think Cersei is mad enough to do something like that (yet – only of she loses both Jaime and Tommen)
Im thinking that the visions really are telling Bran what he must do in the future rather than a prediction of something that will happen…
BURN THEM ALL!! (its an instruction)
Dee,
Agreed Cercei burns the place down after losing Tommen. Also foreshadowed by Arya telling Lady Crane how Cercei would react to her loved child dying – not just crying but angry and murderous for revenge! Spot on.
ThroneDorne,
I thought that was a possibility too. But I was also thinking that it is foreshadowing of the progression of the defeat of the WW. As in perhaps the sun will rise starting in the North as victory seems eminent or possible. Or another thought I had was that it is part of the revelation of how Bran will play a role in the defeat of the WW. As in “should you follow this path, it will lead to the sun rising again” (the possibility of the end of winter”.
Just my thoughts. But for sure, each and every vision Bran zipped through has a significance to the whole story unfolding. I do not think any “fluff” would be out in, so it has its place in the story to come or possibly in the revelations of the past.
Jaime told Brienne during their bath scene that the Mad King “had his pyromancers place caches of wildfire all over the city. Beneath the Sept of Baelor, the slums of Flea Bottom, under houses, stables, taverns. Even beneath the Red Keep itself.”
“Our order does not deal in pig shit!” 🙂
Remember that the pyromancer mentioned that Cersei ordered them to work day and night to make wildfire. Tyrion of course tells him that he will be making it for him rather than his sister prior to exploding Blackwater Bay.
double_trouble,
It’s a guess based on Benjen telling Jon they needed to talk when he returned from his rangering. Well, he never did, just like Ned telling Jon the same thing and never returning from King’s Landing.
This was discussed in another thread… We don’t know how many Walkers there are. Ignoring how many they’ve shown clearly onscreen at any given time, there should be at least a dozen including the NK if those were Walkers as assumed behind the NK when he turned that baby. There were 14 present there including the one that brought it – Sam’s kill was prior to that minus the two Jon and Meera killed. That isn’t even accounting for the endless supply of babies Craster gave them or the thousands of years since their creation to build their forces. As far as we know they’re practically immortal and prior to recent events there hasn’t been much luck in destroying them.
Oh Christ, I hope Nedd didn’t lance Lyanna with that sword!
This post was a lot longer but my baby boy hit the back arrow. Which is probably for the best. Anyhow here’s a short but long-winded theory that I’ve been pondering and decided to post it after rewatching Bran’s vision, even tho the only part that may majorly play a part in it is the NK with the baby.
I think that the only way this show could end properly after everything that has and will happen, including someone claiming the throne for good), is that when Winter comes it will keep coming until everyone and everything is destroyed. Yes there will be some great heroism and redemption for some and horrible tragedy and loss for others and great stories along the way. But everyone is too involved with belief and tradition, with love and hate, and with everything that we ourselves are, it’s called life. And so few of us ever try to look at the big picture or this huge floating ball of rock and water we call Earth, me included. I’m not a save the world type of person, I mean who really is and who could be even when they try. Not that I dislike life it’s just that universe doesn’t care about us. And the vast majority of us have treated this place so poorly or ignore it. (Sorry if that was rant-like). The few people trying to save Westoros are too late or they never stood a chance to begin with. I think that’s been a hidden story arc through out the show and possibly the books. I’ll have to leave it at that for now. If you’re still reading let me know what you think.
BranTheBlessed,
Yeah he is shown twice- when he was stabbed and as he fell dying.
My GF just thought of something that, to me, solidifies my theory;
The White Walkers are turning the babies into some kind of new being. As the Children did in WWs. And possibly these whatever these babies turn into will repopulate what’s left of Westeros.
I agree with this. Mad King Aerys is there in the vision for a reason. Targs are known to have prophetic dreams,what if Aerys ‘s obsession with fire and burning things, and his madness, are the result of seeing the WW’s in the future. And even if that is true, why is it so important to show Bran/us that the Mad King had seen this in the future?
Clob,
Cool, thanks for that I couldn’t remember if we knew 🙂 So if Cersei does go fire/explosion crazy it’s presumably already where she needs it to be and she can access it fairly easily? If I were her I’d try and destroy the sept itself, I assume that’s where HS hangs out most of the time? Not sure where you’re from but here in the UK we had a plot to blow up Parliament in the 17th century. It was caught in time but when a tv show recreated it for the (I think) 400th anniversary they worked out that attacking something from underneath was very effective. 10ft thick concrete walls completely blown out, which of course would cause the roof to collapse. Everyone in the near vicinity would have been killed outright. Mmm I might start calling her Guy Fawkes (the main historical plotter) from now on…… Probably turn out to be something else entirely or a red (or glowing green) herring, although GRRM has apparently been influenced a lot by European history.
Ramskates,
Never mind. That was a red wedding or something else and not Jon. Sorry.
Wimsey,
Wimsey
Dany is taking a foreign army, which as Jorah pointed out, like most armies except the Unsullied, rape and pillage. It they’ve done it all their lives. The fact that Dany fails to mention it doesn’t mean they will not do it. Add to that three dragons which will roast 10,000’s of people if it is anything like Argon’s conquest. Add to it that Dany’s father lost the throne after a reign that descended into madness and the indiscriminate killing of people by a paranoid monarch. Add to that GRRM’s pacifist leanings. Is A person who has never been on the Westerosi mainland invading Westeros with 100,000 Dothraki screamers on ships from the Ironborn who have reaved and pillaged Westeros for hundreds of years the act of someone overly concerned for the welfare of her future subjects or revenge for what was taken away from her family? As was pointed out in Qarth she is not retaking Westeros bit was never hers. It’s interesting to me that people – not saying you – who fawn over Dany for her position on slavery have no trouble with the likely murder of 10,000’s when she invades Westeros if the nobility opposes her. It happened in Aegons conquest. I’m not saying she’s mad. I’m saying fire and blood has overtaken her thoughts. She wants what is hers. Even though it was never hers. And most of Poland was German before the Great War as Poland had been partitioned thrice in the 18th century. I don’t think comparisons to Hitler are generally valid. It is too often used. But her mental state is questionable. She’s not mad. However vengeance has clouded her judgment. She’s now to be the butcher. Not the meat. And unless D&D have arranged a relatively clean invasion. She’ll likely do a lot of butchering. Not BTW I think the noble houses of Westeros have generally done anything other than exploiting the common people. If the HS wasn’t such a fanatic I might buy his program to ally the crown and faith over a Targeryan restoration as best for the people. This has nothing to do with male or female. If it were Viserys I’d think it to a greater extent
The Mad King’s wildfire plot did have him storing wildfire in many locations:
It seems like somewhere the books said that they weren’t certain if they found all of the wildfire caches after Jaime executed the Mad King and his pyromancers. And I think Cersei had a couple of her own pyromancers for Blackwater, right? This AWOIAF article quoted above also notes that wildfire becomes extremely unstable with age!
Dragonfire isn’t regular fire.
Perhaps it will be necessary to burn King’s Landing with wildfire when the White Walkers invade.
Lulus Mum,
It’s worth noting that wildfire is more incendiary in the books than explosive. Think napalm. The Blackwater explosion was great on-screen and a great change, but in the books Tyrion had all the catapults flinging wildfire molotov cocktails, and when everyone says “The imp set the river on fire” they’re being quite literal. So Aerys’s plot in the books was more to set an extremely hot and difficult to extinguish chemical fire throughout the city, rather than blow-up a few strategic locations like parliament.
Wildfire is probably going to be used to burn the wights. “burn them all” and then it cut to scenes of the wights running. At least, it would makes sense.
lewdvig,
Oh yeah, this makes sense and I like it better than Tommen dying by accident somehow.
Cersei loses- and the High Septon says, OK, sorry, bye bye Tommen. Cold blooded.
I would say Margaery does b4 Cersei
But there’s issues over recognising Tommen in the first place etc
Do think Cersei may end up burning at least the Sept of Baelor as a stand-in for Tower of Hand
Drogon flying over the red keep suggests it will still be standing
Always a chance that Dany assault with the cannonball of Drogon Dragon Fire hits the proverbial Powder Magazine and it (KL) blows up?
This makes some sense if u consider her journey as Aegon in reverse, eg Aegons landing spot.becomes embryonic KL, but think embryonic Dany fleeing KL to Dragonstone then going East…and becoming a Conqueror too. So going back to KL is the entire thing folding in on itself
Eg think of the WW spiral 8mahery, spirals outward but there can also be spiral inwards (collapse)
Darkrobin,
Yeah but Dany is there to break the big bad wheel /rolleyes
On a serious note though i find it all fascinating and enjoy Fire + Blood Dany more interesting than “Queen” Dany
It will be fascinating to see what happens with “i’m here to help the realm” Varys given he seemed to think Viserys was preferrable to Jon Arryns management…of course if they went 10 seasons and included the Blackfyres it would make sense, especially given the “bastard power” theme they’ve introduced and it would make for a good twin to what i suspect will be a Jon/Sansa split
Mand,
Well nothing says she has to die in the fire she sets off. “Little brother” could find her and kill her later… But anyway that part of the prophecy is not in the show, afaik.
Yeah VS is forged from Dragon Fire i think
Plus Magic Fire spells by Mel and Kinvara etc
So the Dragons directly but i think Wildfire on flaming arrows or in hoses sprayed down castle walls will be effective tactics against the Wights but not WW’s
Blessed Wildfire flaming sword by Thoros etc may be effective as well?
Ginevra,
I’ve always assumed that dragonglass can be made both ways. And didn’t someone somewhere (the pyromamcer?) say that wildfire was just like dragonfire in a bottle? Or am I remembering that incorrectly?
Also, just in general, the first time we got a glimpse of the WWs in the baby changing scene there were more than 4 of them (I think I counted 13) so we cannot assume that the 4 we’ve seen lately are the only 4 that exist.
Ashara D,
Whoops! Didn’t read the whole thread… 😉
Dee,
Markus Stark,
Yep. That’s me. Thanks for telling some of my story. But not all. There’s more to my story, Dee. You’ll see when you get around to reading the books. So beautiful. So tragic. ♡
can someone explain why we assume the dragon flying over kings landing is dragon? or at least one of the other two go current times? Bran as far as we know can’t see the future. soo? I’m thinking that dragon shadow is either not kings landing of current times; or it’s current times, but not kings landing.
Moka,
If only she didn’t meet Tyrion it would have been epic. IMO she could have gone west and end up killing plenty including characters we know and enjoy. She would have been the only one completely isolated from the rest of the story so the people we enjoy would have just been enemies.
I suppose this meeting will happen in the books as well but it just seemed an easy way to have two sides with popular people on both sides. Just as any war doesn’t just have good vs evil.
I believe the parallel being missed in the visons Bran had are the ones between the birth of the ww babies and Danys dragons. WW are a magical species and Dragons are a magical species. It is my thinking that the bittersweet ending we will get is Dany having to sacrifice her dragons to stop the magic which is propelling the WW army. I think she comes to westeros to get her throne but it costs her everything she ever wanted. I don’t think there will be anything left for anyone to rule in the end.
Ashara D,
Think that was metaphor?
For.mine Wilsfire is like Greek fire, though tbf the Pyromancer asked if dragons were around as production for Blackwater batch was quicker than exoected as the spells involved worked quicker
So maybe they can work vs WW after all?
Maybe the vision is about Bran being told to “burn them all”?
Possible, though given there another Dance of Dragons set to occur someone will.take Rhaegal.or Viserion and oppose Dany
My guess is Jon takes Rhaegal and Euron/Tyrion take Viserys
“you’re a conqueror Daenerys Stormborn.” And what needs conquering more than the white walkers and their army? She’s necessary.
Maggie,
To think she’s going to “save” Westeros by swooping in on Drogon all righteous like as he rains fire down on all the WW and wights, and only them, then dismounts and give a rousing speech to all who remain that her and the Dothraki horde are there to bring peace and order to the realm, and she will say “I am the rightful queen so please accept my rule and don’t worry, my dragons won’t harm anybody they’re vegetarians, thank you everyone.” This is now a fairy tale? LOL.
Mihnea,
I won’t say you are wrong but i also won’t say you are right.
This could be a scene of a different past. Since we know that manipulating the past through visions is possible. The present time line already is a manipulated past changed from a future point of view. What if the three eyed raven or future Bran changed certain points of the time lines past. Maybe we see what could have happened. Mad king is known for just yelling “Burn them all!” (Hodor!) at the end of his time. The books carry even more potentially changed scenes even though visions can only be seen from a weirwood tree. Are there any important things you could think of taking place near a weirwood tree? ..
Ginevra,
I have just watched your Pride and Prejudice video, of course you had commented on the matter, how did I think otherwise? Garvie was lovely as well!
I have reminisced on my watching the series in the 80ies on the previous thread.
Hi everyone!
I’ve been one of the many “silent readers” of your brilliant posts and, even more so, the interesting discussion threads beneath them. It’s amazing just how many great theories GoT fans have come up with so far 🙂
Now, I myself haven’t read the books, but have spoken to a few people who did and have read a lot of discussions about several storylines. Just couldn’t stop myself any longer from throwing in my 2 cents. Would be interesting to discuss this idea I had after watching the last episode with you experts 😉
First of all, let me quickly mention that I know about the main elements of Cersei’s “prophecy”, the one she got from a witch in the woods in her childhood. The most important elements, to the best of my knowledge, were the mentioning of her three kids dying (golden shrouds) and herself being killed by the Valonquar (meaning “younger brother”, which supposedly is the reason why she hates Tyrion throughout her life).
The second point is that I know of the infamous “Cleganebowl” suggesting that Frankenmountain and the Hound will be the champions for Cersei’s trial by combat. The popular theory is that the Hound will win for the Faith and ultimately cause Cersei’s punishment aka death. I love this theory as the Hound actually IS the younger brother of the Mountain and would be a nice fit with the prophecy.
A fact I, personally, never saw mentioned with regards to the “younger brother” theory is that also Tommen actually IS a younger brother. He already turned against his house, to some degree, why shouldn’t that conflict go deeper in the next episodes?
Do you still remember the line from the trailer we got from Cersei? “I choose violence!” – I was wondering when exactly we might be getting this line from her. We could also assume that, given the setting of that scene (Cersei is most probably speaking to a few members of the Faith militant), that blood might flow immediately afterwards…there was a sequence in a trailer showing a faith militant being smashed on the ground covered in blood or something of that sort.
Imo, that line of Cersei’s wouldn’t make much sense after a trial by combat. It would have to come before.
And how would Tommen, with his newly-founded co-ruling of the Faith and the crown most probably react? Would he, even then, carry out a trial for his mother? Wouldn’t the killing of the Faith militants most probably result in more drastic punishment than a trial? Ned Stark certainly didn’t have a trial for a lesser “crime” (actually, no crime at all, but a crime still from the Lannisters’ perspective).
What I’m aiming towards is that Tommen might just as well be the “younger brother” who causes Cersei’s death. Or was it mentioned in the prophecy that she will actually see all her children die/dead? From what I understood is that they will die an untimely death, but not necessarily before their mother – but I might be wrong there of course, being a non-bookreader.
Still, the fact that they already mentioned several times that she has the Mountain for her trial, makes it more probable this trial will take place. However, in that case, I wouldn’t necessarily bet on the Hound. If the Hound should win, then at which point could Cersei probably still bring in her “violence”? She would immediately be put into a cell to wait for her executioner or be executed straight away.
I also don’t buy the idea of both Cleganebowl and Cersei blowing up King’s Landing with wildfire. My personal guess is that it’s either one thing or the other that’s going to happen. I agree with others who posted this earlier that Cersei would only blow up KL as a last desperate measure once she’s close to madness after the death of her third child. However, this would contradict the theory of her dying at the hands of a younger brother, because she would most likely be in KL herself and blow herself up with the rest of the lot. Unless she finds a safe way out of KL and then manages to organise blowing up the city with wildfire from a distance, the prophecy about her death wouldn’t hold. Only if you consider Tommen the younger brother who is causing her insanity with his own death, but that is a bit far-fetched, I admit 😉
Hope you guys could follow my ideas, English is not my mothertongue so it might all be a bit of a mess and very confusing. Interested hear your thoughts on them, though!
That’s a way to look at it. I think I’m applying the law to a man who seems to be an extreme stickler for the law, who to this point we’ve seen kill zero people, even legitimately very rotten people like the previous High Septon who probably deserved it. I could certainly be wrong, but if this season ends with the High Sparrow killing Tommen, I’m not even sure how I’d react. That would be so out of left field and out of character.
Daenarys is gonna save Westeros from the army of the dead.
The War of Kings is irrelevant, which more and more characters on the show are beginning to understand. And it won’t take her reaching KL to realize the existence and threat the White Walkers pose humanity.
Are people forgetting the Red priestess–who came across as someone even more powerful than Melisandre– waiting for her over at Mereen? The priestess will let Daenarys know of the War that matters and I expect the Khaleesi sailing immediately to save her people. She put freeing the slaves of Essos over desire of conquering Westeros. Do we really expect her to now say ‘ Whitewalkers, who gives a sh!t? I’ll burn down KL and sit on the Iron throne first’ ?
Daenarys, right now, is the only one who can give the Night’s King a contest. Noone else comes even close in terms of armies or power.
Dee,
Dragonfire is not ordinary fire. If dragonglass kills them which is suppose to be crystallized dragon fire then regular dragonfire will kill them as well.
In the books, that’s definitely true, but I don’t think it’s been confirmed in the show. In episode 3, he says he’s been sitting there watching the world for 1000 years. Brynden Rivers would only be about 125 years old at this point, which could indicate that they’ve changed his identity in the show, or it could be that there have been many previous “Three-eyed Ravens”, and that Brynden Rivers inherited the position from the previous one, as Bran has now inherited it from him. Maybe there has been a “Three-eyed Raven” sitting in that cave for 1000 years, but not the same one the whole time.
Interestingly, Brynden Rivers was also the last known wielder of the Valyrian steel sword “Dark Sister”, which was name-dropped by Arya in season 2 episode 7, while talking to Tywin. I wonder if Dark Sister will ever show up again. It would be pretty cool to see Arya dual-wielding Dark Sister and Needle with her new combat training.
Moka,
Agreed.
I, for one, think that while Dany’s still sane, she’s going to lose it when she finds out that after everything she’s been through, she doesn’t have the right to the iron throne after all. She doesn’t really have any ties to Westeros, she just wants power and revenge, so I can see things getting out of hand when she realises that she’ll get neither.
No One,
i just rewatched the scene and its certainly snow,there is a strong indicator by the shards of ice hanging around the throne pillars.
I think people do too many conclusions about Dany’s character from the content of the last two books, which well… were tad on a boring side and more like in-between the real plot. I would say Dany will arrive to Seven Kingdoms to find it all in ruins and crawling with White Walkers, possibly when most of other pretenders are dead. There are plenty of examples in history when someone gained the throne not because of some super values or decisions, but just because there were no other obvious pretenders.
Also, since GRRM draw some inspiration from the war of the roses, it is probably worth to note the ancestry of Henry Tudor (who technically won that war), whose father Edmund Tudor was doubtfully legitimate son of Owen Tudor (who sort of married, sort of not, a widow of the king, Catherine Valois, who was actually a daughter of a real life mad king Charles VI and a mother of mad king Henry VI). Besides that, the whole Tudor claim to the throne was through a bastard and female line from John of Gaunt (children of his mistress). So if we end up with Jon + Dany, it would be not too surprising if it came from that bit of history.
Evi,
Dany is a figure that would have been marked a Mary Sue, had a woman written these novels. Both the show and the novels have bent over backwards to show that she’s not just after power and revenge: She wants to save people. She frees slaves. She frees women. She has magic pets. She has magic powers. She can do it. And she’s coming to a nation (continent) near you to save it from itself, SOON. And if that nation (continent) is overrun by corrupt rulers, civil war, ice demons, an endless winter, famine, and zombies, its commoners will be thankful to have been saved.
So I doubt that she will go mad; I realize that Clarke is unable to emote at the best of times, but that final speech was meant to be glorious, not insane. Her time in Meereen was her nadir, both in novels and show. She has risen above it through her innate nobility, supernatural powers and magic pets, and though she might face difficulties in the future, I fear this is where she will stay.
It´s quite curious how the catch-phrase of this reel of visions is obviously “burn them all” and the last “burn them all” is leading to a lengthy sequence about the Others and the Wights.
So even though I`ve never been a fan of the theory about Aerys going mad because of hearing Bloodraven´s/3ER´s voices, it could actually make sense based on how this is cut together. Dragons,Targaryens and Fire are about one half of the visions, Others, wights and Ice the other half.
In that sense, “Burn them all” may derive from a glimpse of the future/ or current situation in the far North beyond the Wall which was shown to Aerys by the 3ER. Aerys couldn´t cope with the overwhelmingly menacing images shown to him by 3ER who actually wanted to advise him that the wights (and maybe even the Others themselves ) can only be defeated by “Fire” in a sense. However, the advise of defeating the others by fire deteriorated into the phrase of “burning them all”, which Aerys than took up as his twisted form of duty. It would definitely lend a reason to him starting to burn people to death (preventing them from becoming wights) and producing a ton of wildfire.
There are still some things speaking against that, of course (pe: why didn´t Aerys brun Brandon Stark as well? ), but the “Aerys hearing voices”-theory is actually becoming more credible because of this sequence. I´m intrigued how that will be resolved and I´m questioning whether some of the more outlandish theories might actually turn out to be true…
Jamie was sitting on the throne when Ned Stark found him after he killed Aerys..it’s from the past.:)
Mihnea,
It would be interesting if it showed two alternate time lines and Bran is the one that has to nudge Jamie to stop the mad King. However, that would be too complicated for the show so I’m going to bet Cercei loses it and blows up KL or something equally as boring will happen
Another thought:
If we presume (which is highly possible) that we do not see the Tarly’s again then the WHOLE POINT of the build up to and the scenes at Horn Hill was that Sam got a Valyrian Steel sword.
He wont be wielding it himself (?) so EITHER its because he needs to give it to someone else OR he works out a way to make it… PERHAPS he meets up with either a dragon or Danaerys? Im convinced Sam will have a critical role to play in the Wars to Come.
Also, to me there seem to be a A LOT of ways to deal with the White Walkers and the Wights:
1) Dragons
2) Valyrian Steel
3) Wildfire (or any fire – even normal flaming arrow)
4) A well armed and armoured army should be able to deal with a wight army? (or even Dothraki on horse should do well)
5) The Red Priestesses/Priests with their fire magic and flaming swords
To me it doesnt seem that they are actually that much of a threat – its just a matter of logistics and organization in getting these solutions to their destination
Which suggests that the show makers should really have some surprises in store for us… maybe…
1) Dragons REALLY do not like the cold and will not go north (this has not been suggested anywhere?)
2) The Night King has some more really kick-ass magic
3) There are A LOT more White Walkers than we think there are (baby making)
4) There is some kind of total f**k up by the people of Westeros
Dee,
In the books, I’m not sure if I remember correctly,
Evi,
And what is she going to do with a Dorhraki hoard running loose in Westeros after her conquest? She is not thinking this out very clearly.
Ryan,
Hmm like those creepy blue-eyed children (or was it just one?) in the first episode of the 1st season? I thought they were just adolescent white walkers but seems to me those are all male and this one I’m remembering was a female. But we all saw Karsi get turned into something and it wasn’t one of those zombie skeleton looking things.
You probably know that John of Gaunt married Katherine Swynford after the death of his second wife and Richard II legitimised the children of their relationship. One of Katherine’s sisters married the poet, Geoffrey Chaucer, but again that is pretty well known. I had a quick look on Wikipedia about Catherine Swynford.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katherine_Swynford
According to that Henry IV declared that the issue of John of Gaunt and Katherine should not be eligible to inherit the throne – that must have been one of the rules Henry VII changed after he became king.
ALSO – im sorry if this has been said or suggested…
the baby with blue eyes – perhaps its not actually a White Walker OR a wight – perhaps its a A THIRD CREATURE?
I have not been able to read the 300+ responses so please forgive if this has been discussed. There are a couple of images in sequence that I did not recognize from memory and was curious if any importance. At 1:16 and 1:21 of video above we see scene in north with a WW on a horse surrounded by a few others and they are looking away from camera. What are they looking at? At 1:27 of video we go back to same place but a lot more wights or people in picture and they are walking away from camera. In real time these are very quickly shuffled through but I am sure others have had some thoughts.
At first I thought they were looking at the Wall and possible where it ended/had come down. But the more I saw of it, the more it looks like a darker mountain’s edge. Are they marching somewhere important? Or is this from the past and I don’t remember it?
I agree with you, I think Dany will embrace “Fire and Blood” and act as a Targaryen conquerer. The last book clearly illustrates the conflict within Dany – peace and compromise (marriage to Hizhdar) or dragons and conquering (affair with Daario). She finds herself at odds with her instincts time and again – compromising by reopening the fighting pits, her marriage to a noble Meerenese, chaining her dragons (I mean seriously… what better metaphor for her tamping down her Targaryen nature?) etc. She says over and over how she doesn’t want Hizhdar (compromise), she desires Daario (blood).
Dany may play a role in the war to come, but she will not be the hero that people expect. And if it plays out like that I will be very happy. I am not a Dany hater at all, and I think this dichotomy inside her only adds to her character development. Despite wanting to be a good ruler, free the slaves, and bring peace to Meereen, her nature is Fire and Blood.
BranTheBlessed,
The central mystery of the entire series is wrapped around Jon Snow. Based on Benioff and Weiss’ own words a correct or incorrect answer on his parentage seemed to dictate whether George would allow them to make an adaptation or not. Taking all of this into account I cannot see in any way how “Jon Snow will have very little to do in the war that matters.”
That being said I don’t blame you for having this thought. I don’t know why they even bothered to resurrect Jon Snow on the show. He’s a supporting character for Sansa and seems to me his only “change” or consequence of being “dead” (by the way remember that? Seems like none of these other characters do) is now being an even more introverted, “brooding”, lame ass.
Elizabeth,
I know, but why bother showing Jamie sitting on the throne? They said each frame was carefully chosen. All we really needed to see was Jamie killing the Mad King. I just think it’s possible that Jamie has more of a role to play than what he has already done. Most people already think
Either that or Bran uses Cersei to release the wildfire, but not until after the WW are there.
And I really don’t see the point of showing Bran about the wildfire if it won’t be used against the Others. So what if Cersei burns KL to the ground? The WW won’t care. It won’t make one bit of difference to them or to Bran if she burns everyone in KL. But it IS important to beat the WW. I just don’t think Cersei will use it. She may want to, but she won’t get a chance to. Bran NEEDS the wildfire to defeat the WW.
Also, regarding Dany’s vision of the throne room. Who’s the say she’s not taking a stroll through the damage after the WW battle? Her dragons will be necessary, and so far, she is the only rider.
Iron Throne is hers, just like Winterfell is Jon’s and Sansa’s
lomilaw,
1:16 – Hardhome
1:27 – Fist of the First Men
Alexis,
ita that Dany will embrace “fire and blood,” but why is this a bad thing?
In the show, something similar will happen, and she’ll triumph, bringing peace and stability to Meereen and Slaver’s Bay.
Is this a bad thing? Why? She remembers who she is, changes tactics, and smites the bad guys. This is a GOOD thing. I think Dany will go further and manage what Stannis couldn’t. She will reject Tyrion’s alliance with R’hllor and his priests, as she doesn’t need them. She’s got her own magic, her dragons, her Dothraki.
…after which she will head to Westeros via Volantis and its navy (imo). ita that there was a time when Westeros would not have welcomed her appearance. Right now, Westeros is in trouble. She’ll be bringing Walker-killing machines exactly when they are needed: in the midst of a zombie apocalypse. Again, how this could possibly reduce her role as our hero, I am failing to see. Do we want her to be nice to the Walkers? Marry one of them, perhaps? Of course not. She’s going to smite them, and the viewers are going to be asked to cheer her on.
Ginevra,
Hi honey *waving as always*. So it could go up by accident rather than design? I loved the pyromancer at Blackwater, he looked every inch the crazy scientist about to see his greatest invention used to full effect.
Kilgore Tully,
Aaaah I see. Thanks for that, I only have the show version to go on which seems more like something you’d use to cause an explosion rather than sustain a fire. Now I’ve got the Gunpowder Plot (the official name for the blowing up Parliament plot) firmly in my head I’m thinking along those lines as places like the Sept and the Throne Room don’t look like they have much readily flammable stuff in them, being mainly stone, metal and glass.
I love the green glowing colour so I’m hoping this is a vision of the future and we get to see it in all its lurid glory! 😀
Fat ‘n’ Balda,
Robb’s not wearing armor in that scene
I disagree. I don’t think the Queen Mother is going to live long enough to do it her days are numbered. Guess we will have to wait and see. With the show writers you never know. ?
I agree with this. They’ve made it apparent in the show that Dany is not like her father. The scene that sticks out is Baristan’s: “No, you’re not your father.” Then he goes on to talk about Rhaegar. If there was any semblance of her going mad, Varys wouldn’t do so much to support her.
Dany has never been cruel to anyone for giggles. Sure, for her start as a ruler, she had some black and white morality issues, but she’s also been given the most level headed advisors in the series to help her see the grey.
Her family was overthrown which I am sure they did the same to gain control at one time. It is not hers. She has to fight an win to get and then continue to protect it. Because there will always be someone who wants it.
WightWylis,
They are both of the same place. The first flash is just very quickly mixed in with Hardhome images but you can see the WW on the horse. But I was wondering about the Fist of First Men. I don’t remember those scenes very well, so I am sure you are correct.
This is a goofy thought I had after reading Bran’s visions typed out on this post, but just throwing it out there because EVERY possibility is fun to think about:
What if Bran stops young Jamie from killing the Mad King, letting everyone in Kings Landing burn? (Some) later problems would be totally solved/never even happen. Maybe sacrificing the population of KL is the solution… vs. letting it get to the point we’re at now- with the dead on the brink of destroying the entire world.
My brain hurts.
reek,
:):)
same argument by me in another thread haha
yes yes diff reasons but same idea.
I’m definitely of the opinion that Cersei is going to lose it and burn KL to the ground. It would be extremely ironic – one Lannister twin stops it and saves the city only to have the other twin do it years later instead. It would be interesting, especially considering the Volonquar prophecy.
It was awesome seeing the Mad King! He looked amazing.
This was the only relevant quote I could find. Definitely the two are comparable, but I wouldn’t expect wildfire to carry the same magic as dragonfire.
Completely off topic, but I found this gem while hunting:
“Fire and blood” being the Targaryen House words, which Dany is so obviously embracing this season, makes me wonder if the khaleesi might be able to do these Valyrian sorcery things … if only someone would bring her a glass candle. #whereismarwyn
I’m glad you agree! The entire cast of the Rintoul P&P is fantastic, even if that version is obviously lower budget. And I love the Mary line that they added: “One coughs when one must.” I responded to you in the other thread, as well, just now.
Yes, my thoughts exactly! “You always kill the ones you love.” We know Cersei might be planning on blowing a certain sept when it comes time for her trial, but what if Tommen is part of the audience when she does so? She tries to cancel, at the last minute, but oops, someone drops a pot.
I loved the more neon color, too! The new lurid shade was perfect for the quick flashes.
reek,
Iron Throne is not hers. The allies in Robert’s Rebellion conquered the throne from the Targaryens. The Targaryens were not born into royalty, they were not chosen by the Gods to rule forever. Aegon and his two sisters-wives conquered Westeros by use of dragon and forced everyone to bend the knee, including the Starks who had being kings in the North for thousands of years. Whether we like it or not, the Iron Throne now belongs to the Lannisters because in their own way the conquered it. Cersei may not have used a warhammer to destroy Robert but she killed him nonetheless and she was cunning enough to install heirs of her choosing. She’s more of an usurper than Robert and Ned ever were. So no, the throne does not belong to Dany, she’s welcome to take it by force but at this point after 20 something years, the throne is not hers only because she’s a Targaryen. Winterfell is another type of beast, Winterfell is synonymous with the Starks, they’ve basically more or less claimed lordship of the North and Winterfell for eight thousand years. When most in Westeros think of Winterfell, they think Starks. And frankly there’s another difference: Jon and Sansa grew up in Winterfell, they’ve been away from it no more than three years. Dany has never set a foot in Kings Landing, she was born in Dragonstone but left Westeros as an infant.
Jaime being the valonqar (or not) really has no bearing on why they had a shot of him sitting on the throne.
Sweetshade Lane,
This would be supported by the very first image in the opening credits, i.e. KL on fire with a dragon to the right but an erupting volcano with rivers of lava to the left.
trarecar,
And I really don’t see the point of showing Bran about the wildfire if it won’t be used against the Others. So what if Cersei burns KL to the ground? The WW won’t care. It won’t make one bit of difference to them or to Bran if she burns everyone in KL. But it IS important to beat the WW. I just don’t think Cersei will use it. She may want to, but she won’t get a chance to. Bran NEEDS the wildfire to defeat the WW.
this is exactly my reading of the visions. Bran’s concern is the WWs and The Undead Army. The show need to concentrate on things from now on and this must be his direction…. i dont think he is going to be concerned with the Mad King or Cersei or Jaime… the Mad King is only in the vision to provide the words “Burn them all” over the Wight imagery.
that wildfire is needed for the Big War to Come… of course if anyone DOES use it for any other purpose it would be a disaster for all of Westeros
my expectation and hope is that there will be a siege of Kings Landing by the Army of the Dead where they will use it…
maria,
Peace and stability? With a Dothraki hoard?
Sinequanone,
If the point of Bran’s dream was that wildfire can be used against the Walkers, why show Aerys? Why not show Blackwater, where wildfire was used to defeat an enemy? Aerys uses wildfire against his own people, a hint, I think, that this is how it will eventually be used. Dany shouldn’t be the culprit, as she has Drogon, doesn’t need wildfire. Jaime is out of it, too, as he is heading to Riverrun. Cersei is implicated. Thanks to Marg, she’s alone in the Red Keep, about to face a tough trial, with UnGregor her only ally. The Red Keep will burn down: Dany sees that in the House of the Undying.
Oleana,
Indeed. The Dothraki are under Dany’s control, the way Drogon is. Peace and stability in Meereen and later in Westeros, once the Dothraki and the dragons help defeat the Walkers.
Having the Mad King cackle Burn them all! is a more effective message than showing some folks burning in the water.
And if Cersei is going to use it for something like that, why show so many scenes of the wildfire? Where they are, what they are in, what happens when you use it? Again, why would Bran need to know that Cersei destroys KL?
Clob,
Excellent! More for Jon & friends to kill with swords! In a perfect world for this fan, anyway. Haha.
Lyanna_Targaryen,
I thought it might have been Talisa too, but after re-watching the scenes and seeing the screencaps, I’m in full agreement with you. Someone over at WiC.net said it was clearly Jon’s body on the slab…I said it very clearly, absolutely, is NOT. This has to be a ToJ scene…and I am SO ready to see it!
Is no one considering the possibility that the WW win?
trarecar,
There were some really magnificent wildfire explosions in Blackwater, which involved a specific delivery agent for the wildfire, but they chose to use the Mad King instead, and end it with Jaime’s oath breaking.
If the point is to remind Bran that wildfire can be used against the Walkers, why use this morally loaded scene, and why end it with Jaime killing Aerys? Why would Bran need to know that Jaime killed Aerys, if the point is to teach him how to use wildfire? Hopefully we’ll see this season, one way or another.
Sue the Fury,
Robert Aramayo mentioned a ‘significant’ presence in the season’s finale. That, I take to mean a resolution of ToJ, and, perhaps, Ned’s arrival back at Winterfell with Jon. Taking into consideration the previous episode is the Battle for Winterfell, it would be fitting for Jon & Sansa to be seen riding into their home castle in the finale. Good way to round Jon’s arc too.
How will Jon get to know, and when? Bran feels like the obvious choice but, I’m wondering if this is where Howland Reed turns up. Wasn’t there a tradition amongst Targaryens to leave a dragon egg in (Royal) babies’ cribs? Maybe Rhaegar’s own Valyrian Steel sword? Could those be down in the crypts?
Back to Bran – is it beyond expectations to think he can warg across distance, to send information? We’re told he’s powerful. This would be a good demonstration of how much power.
I know this thread is largely focused on the show and this hasn’t come up yet in the show (may not at all) but in book five at the Kingsmoot Euron Greyjoy had
a magical dragon controlling horn. It was a major factor in clinching the kingsmoot, and killed the man who blew it, but it seems an important and sinister issue going forward. It could have serious ramifications for Dany and her dragons. [/ spoiler] Anyone else have thoughts on this? Will the show include it? In both the books and show Euron’s quite off his rocker, so no hesitation if he can figure out how to use it. What is GRRM’s plan for it?
Well I’m glad some people are at least finally puzzling over why Bran’s vision had Jaime’s entire slaying of Aerys and his sitting in the throne in it, because I had been saying since the 2nd trailer that it was Jaime and Aerys and it seemed like almost everyone dismissed it.
Out-to-lunch,
How will Jon get to know, and when? No idea how (Bran, Howland, Red woman vision) but it’ll be in 2017 cause I wouldn’t put it past them to give us the answer at the very end of Ep 10 but leave off the satisfaction of Jon himself finding out. That will be another cliffhanger….@#$ I’ll love it if I’m wrong and curious to see what Sue thinks 🙂
reek,
If we look at it in black and white terms like that then the descendants of whatever family ruled before the Targaryens conquered the throne could also step up and have a rightful claim to it.
orange,
The only reference I heard was in regards to his brooding nature when Brienne mutters “that’s understandable considering.” So we know Sansa knows. OK so the writers don’t want to waste time on that dialogue. But in a couple of subsequent conversations couldn’t they have thrown in some sort of reference, to make everything more… relevant? believable? As far as I remember we see no acknowledgment by Sansa whatsoever. There’s talk of soup, bad ale, acting bratty, needing to fight Ramsay, silence and food remark at the dinner table, enter PL, a new dress and cloak….We can only assume that when Jon told her, she reacted with sufficient surprise, horror then empathy. But none of that carried over, not even an allusion to it. Just an odd choice imo.
I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again, Jaime is NOT killing Cersei. I don’t care about the book prediction, that has not been mentioned on the show, for good reason, I think. Cersei will die, but it won’t be at Jaime’s hand.
You guys missed a small, but imho, important thing that Jaime said this episode. He’s in Cersei’s chamber, and blurts out in a broken-hearted tone “He’s taken OUR son,” about the HS. Jaime is in full “father” mode, and doesn’t care who hears him now. OUR son. He loves his son’s mother. He has what he has always wanted: Cersei, free from her marriage, now openly, wildly in love with him again. “WE are the only two people in the world.” Any of you ever been in love even close to that much? He’d kill himself before he’d hurt her now. He might still chide her for being a bitch, but strangle her? Not happening.
However, there is someone else who wants to see her dead – Margaery. Margaery, who’s getting out of jail; Margaery who threw that plate of day-old venison stew in her face and told her straight out she knew Cersei was behind getting her and Loras thrown into the dungeon. Margaery, who will be returning to the castle shortly, into the arms of her adoring little husband and back under the direct influence of her scheming, murderous grandmother.
THE Queen, beloved by the populace and the new darling of the HS, who, in their eyes, can do no wrong. Oh, but she will: one way or another, Cersei is dead. Remember Cersei’s comment to Margaery long ago, “if you call me sister again, I’ll have you strangled in your sleep.” I think Margaery has been dreaming of strangling Cersei since that day.
Bran’s vision of green fire in a tunnel? I think that’s a message to him of where it can be found, not so much that the city is going to burn because of it. That vision of a burned-out throne room, with the ceiling caved in that both Bran and Dany had? I think that’s from Drogon fire. The reason we keep seing dragon shadows flying over KL.
But then again, this is GoT, with predictions of bitter-sweetness. I could be totally wrong and Jaime will squeeze the shit out of Cersei for kicks. We will have to wait and see.
maria,
If the point of Bran’s dream was that wildfire can be used against the Walkers, why show Aerys? Why not show Blackwater, where wildfire was used to defeat an enemy?
Its NOT the imagery of Aerys thats important its his WORDS. Its that his words – “BURN THEM ALL” overlap on the wight images. This is the message of the visions – its an instruction from his subconscious/higher self.
THE WORDS IN THE DREAM ARE AS IMPORTANT AS THE IMAGES. THEY WORK TOGETHER.
When ive studied my dreams ive often had dream deja vu. That ive had this dream before and its being repeated. I think my subconscious is repeating the dream to some extent when it has an important message for me to understand. I think in any one night everybody has scores maybe hundreds of dreams.
Each of the three visions are similar but DEVELOP in turn. Look at my frame list.
1) The first one is very quick and there are no words. You cant get any message from it.
2) The second dream we have images of wildfire and images of Aerys COMBINED with the words “BURN THEM ALL” The NK and wight images are separate mostly?
3) The third dream is a development from the second and is the solidification of the message because – the words “BURN THEM ALL” at the beginning start to overlap the Aerys images with the wight and WW images. A third of the way in the Aerys and KL images stop – its only NK, WW and Wight images with the words “BURN THEM ALL”
By the end of the third and fully developed vision there are NO images of Aerys and KL it becomes purely a subconscious instruction to BURN THE UNDEAD.
Aerys and KL are really unimportant to BRAN they are only used as a dream/vision tool for his instruction. This is how the subconscious works and i think the showmakers have done a great job in portraying that.
Maggie,
I agree. I don’t think they put current NCW in that scene for no reason. They said the visions were carefully planned. It’s not that expensive to get an actor for a day to do a couple of shots. They also could have obscured it even more so that we couldn’t tell it was NCW at all. To me, this particular part of the vision mixes past and future, it’s a kind of Jaime loop. I can only think that it’s meant to suggest that what Jaime did once he will do again? That would tie in with the idea that he kills Cersei after she burns the city.
I don’t think the wildfire incident will happen this season. My guess is that the Lannisters would rather destroy Kings Landing than give it up to Dany. I’m thinking it may be in the season 7 finale
Gill,
Could the throne be covered in snow in relation to Jon? What you posted makes perfect sense, I am just wondering if Jon is a tie-in as well.
Sinequanone,
I think this is dead on. Bran’s “sight” allows him to see things that have happened or maybe will happen. His visions don’t create pictures/images/scenes from imagination to give him the message needed. He saw/heard the “burn them all” from that particular character because that character actually said those words once upon a time. The images of the wights combined with those words are what’s important. Now, I do think there is some message about Jamie in there too; either what he did previously is important as proof of what he can be counted on to do, or predicting what he will do for his own personal reasons.
It’s true that they didn’t add the valonqar prophecy to the show, so you may be right that Cersei’s death (if she dies at all) won’t happen that way. But they didn’t have to show Jamie sitting on the the throne. Maybe it was to show Bran that the Lannisters are still in charge of KL, that they’ve got access to wildfire, and that he needs to try and help get rid of the Lannisters so that they can use the wildfire against the WW? Or that Jamie is the key to using the wildfire? I just think that Jamie is more important to the end game than we realized.
Like the dire wolves I think the bitter sweet part is that Dany arrives to “save the day” and rallies, but her dragons get killed if not eaten in the process, but then as the dead ascend upon KL they realize that Wild Fire can kill them (ala Tyrion?) they set it off killing the dead and a whole bunch of heroes. Dany is left (she can survive fire, possibly Tyrion and Jon as well.) They start over new story and so on.
Then as credits roll Ramsay Bolton shows up and kills everyone. Because he’s a dick.
trarecar,
Right!!! Yours is the voice of reason in a sea of insanity.
We know there are at least 100 White Walkers, but only three dragons. I always hoped there would be some hidden dragons’ eggs at Dragonstone, Stannis’ home, but since the show has done away with that, there would seem to be only Dany’s dragons in existence and they should be no use against the Night’s King and his army.
Given a choice between Ice and Fire, I’d always choose Ice. There’s a reason why Hell is Hot.
Wimsey,
Do you think there is a character like Dany in history and who is it? The first that came to mind was Elizabeth I of England, mainly because of what she did to the Irish. (Scorched earth policy.) I’m not sure if there are any parallels to real history in GOT but GRRM has mentioned the War of the Roses as being a source of inspiration and that of course ended with the Tudors finally ascending the Throne.
Hi people have talked about a video that shows Dany walking through what looks like Kings Landing which looks destroyed with either snow or ashes coming down. Does anyone have a link to it?
Maybe we’ll see another vision of the Mad King with Bran whispering and warning him about the white walkers, and the need to burn all the dead. Maybe the origin of the : “Burn them all ! “
Was reviewing what Bran saw, and discovered this. Well done on the predictions for the rest of the show!