Unsullied Recap, Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 2: Stormborn

Euron fire fight Stormborn

Spoiler note: The discussion in this post is primarily for non-book readers (book fans can discuss the show-only here). We ask that all Sullied book-readers refrain from posting any mentions/references to the books in the comments here, veiled or otherwise. No spoilers, at all! This show is best viewed without knowing all the surprises beforehand or afterwards, so please be respectful of your fellow fans. Thank you!

Twists and turns. Plots and schemes. And unsullied love (because the Unsullied need love too, damn it). Chapter 2 is in the books (but not in “The Books”) as we quickly make our way through this abbreviated season of Game of Thrones.

A Man is here to talk you through/walk you through the events of the previous evening. Let’s dive in like Theon, shall we?


Varys Stormborn

The Trial of Varys

Our Stormborn episode begins with a brewing storm at Dragonstone and the questioning of the Spider and his loyalty. Dany is justified in her inquiry, but that doesn’t mean I have to like the manner in which she approached it. Varys is the one person who has seemed to be loyal to the Targaryens all along and delivered the Sands and the Tyrells for her cause. Perhaps there was another way to handle the inquiry of Varys. Perhaps not. But regardless, I didn’t finish the scene with a warm fuzzy feeling about the way Dany handles her affairs. In fact, it marginally pissed me off.  And it makes we wonder if the whole “swear you won’t betray me” deal is a setup for Varys to do just that once he realizes that Jon is a Targ.

Melisandre Stormborn

And then… Red Velvet!  Melisandre coincidentally shows up to tell Dany about the “prince or princess that was promised” prophecy and to suggest that she summon Jon to meet with her. After hearing Tyrion’s input, Dany sends a raven to invite Jon to Dragonstone. Good. “To bend the knee.” Not Good. Dany still has a lot to learn, and should she stumble in her quest for the Throne, her entitlement may end up being her downfall.

Jon speaking

Ravens Fly Fast

The message gets to Jon instantaneously as his presence is requested by his Queen (who he hasn’t even met yet). The message is written by Tyrion, and then Jon asks Sansa for her opinion! Rejoice! Davos recognizes the mention of dragons and that fire kills wights. He reminds Jon that “if” the walkers make it past the Wall, they don’t have enough men to fight them. This would ultimately help lead Jon to a decision later. 

Our first look at Tom Hopper as Dickon Tarly, with James Faullkner as Randyll Tarly

Cersei’s Recruiting

Cersei has a meeting with a few Westerosi Lords, most notably Randyll Tarly and son Rickard I mean Dickon, to rally more banners to her side. She draws comparison to Dany and her father and points out their similarities (although they are obviously slanted… fair and balanced, no doubt).

Jaime meets with Randyll following the rally to find out where his allegiance stands. Randyll tells Jaime that he and Olenna have known each other since they were children and that he is sworn to her House. Jaime persuades Randyll saying that he would be a good Warden of the South. Randyll and Sam are apparently destined to be on opposite sides.

Cersei and Qyburn Stormborn

Later, Qyburn would take Cersei to see the remains of the dragons below the Red Keep.  He explains to Cersei that the dragons can be wounded and references the Pit in Meereen in which Drogon was injured (told you that was intentionally included). He then shows Cersei a giant crossbow from hell that was made specifically to wound dragons. Qyburn is Cersei’s secret weapon.

Jorah Mormont Stormborn

Jorah Looks Like Shit

Jorah appears to have laid in a tanning bed and went to sleep on his side.  For a year.

Ebrose essentially tells Jorah that there is no hope for him and that since he is an anointed knight, he will allow Jorah to stay one more day to do with his time what he likes (*stares at sword in the corner). When Sam realizes who Jorah is, he makes other plans. #savejorah

Daenerys Dragonstone meeting Stormborn

Dany’s Many Advisors

Back to Dragonstone and a meeting with a room full of powerful women voicing their opinions on Dany’s next move. Yara suggests taking KL immediately with the dragons. Tyrion argues that thousands of innocent people will die in the firestorm. Olenna then argues that the people won’t obey Dany unless they fear her. Tyrion lays out what seems to be a well thought-out plan using the Dorne and Tyrell armies to take KL while the Unsullied and the Dothraki will siege Casterly Rock.

They all agree. But afterwards, Olenna meets with Dany and tells her that she has outlived all of the men who gave her counsel and that she needs to “be a dragon.” After what happens at the end, Dany may very well heed her advice.

Missandei Grey Worm

Who Needs a Worm?

The Missandei and Grey Worm infatuation finally results in an encounter that looked rather enjoyable for both, especially considering Worm’s feeling for Missandei. If Ygritte were still alive, she would undeniably approve and ask where Worm learned to do that thing with his tongue. Worm undoubtedly knows something.

Of course, you all realize that this means that one of them is going to die soon, right?

Jorah Sam Stormborn

Pylos Knew Something Too.

Sam tells Ebrose that he has discovered two cases where Maester Pylos cured greyscale. Ebrose tells Sam “that’s great and all,” but that Pylos died from greyscale and for that reason, it is too dangerous and is forbidden.

Later, Sam would do what Sam does and take matters into his own hands. The scene involving the skinning of Jorah might have been the most painful to watch in the entire series. And that is saying a lot.

 Hot Pie Arya Stormborn 2

Segue from pus to pie is pretty disgusting, but horribly genius.

Arya stops at the Hot Pie Inn and sees none other than, Hot Pie.  Pie tells her that the Boltons are dead and that Jon is now the King in the North. Arya reverses direction heading North and runs into a pack of wolves led by Nymeria! But Nymeria doesn’t go with Arya to the North and instead walks away. At first, Arya is heartbroken, but seemingly recognizes the resemblance to herself when she tells Ned in Season 1 that “it’s not her.”

Helen Sloan - HBO (Photo 1) (1)

The Dragonglass Letter (some ravens are not as fast as others)

Jon finally receives the note from Sam regarding the dragonglass at Dragonstone. If Jon was questioning whether or not to make the trip there, this sealed the decision. Jon meets with the Northerners and tells them of his intent. He and Davos will go meet with Dany and reveals his decision to leave Sansa in charge (also making Littlefinger a happy man).

Shortly thereafter, LF shows up in the crypts and makes the mistake of telling Jon that he loves Sansa. However, I would argue that Jon makes the bigger mistake by choking LF (although, it was well-deserved). Unfortunately, Lysakiller is smarter than all of them and everything seems to be falling into place for him. I told you… the son of a bitch is not dying anytime soon.  And the Knights of the Vale won’t be supporting the King in the North much longer.

Euron Yara Stormborn

The Big Cock Wins Round 1

Finally, we find Ellaria, Yara, Theon and the Sand Snakes sailing for the mainland on the orders of Dany when they run smack-dab into Uncle Euron. Ellaria and Yara are about to make out (but get Cock-blocked? Come on! That was a good one). Euron seemingly destroys the unsuspecting fleet with ease taking out two Sand Snakes in the process, and we see that Theon still suffers from trauma from his time as Reek. Theon jumps ship, Nymeria and Obara meet their end, and Euron leaves with multiple gifts for Cersei. Cersei draws first blood and looks to have the early advantage.

Episode 702 Personal Awards

Favorite Action Sequence:  Euron spears Obara

Favorite Quotes:

You wish to know where my true loyalties lie? Not with any King or Queen, but with the people. –Varys

Do you fight with us, or with foreign savages and eunuchs? –Jaime

I’m like you, Arry. I’m a survivor. –Pie

A Targaryen cannot be trusted. –Yohn Royce

Disclaimer: I had issues plucking quotes due to a sub-par internet connection in a hotel room while attempting to watch HBO Go. A man will do better next week. Help me out in the comments.

Favorite Scene: Sam and Jorah when Sam tells him that he knew his father.

The “Ow, That Shit Hurts Award” goes to: The debridement of Jorah. He needed more than rum. Incredibly painful to watch.

Overall Thoughts: Although it seemed unconscionable, Cersei actually looks like she has the upper hand for the moment due to the in-fighting and silly mistakes all of the good guys and gals may be presently making. Euron proves that he is a force to be reckoned with and as I’ve mentioned before, could definitely be the X-factor in the war to come. It looks like he might be getting his Queen soon too.

Sam will have two strikes against him, assuming Ebrose realizes that he took the keys to the secret book room and helped Jorah with the greyscale. What does it take to get kicked out of the Citadel?

At this point, it is still difficult to tell what kind of ruler Dany is going to be. But ordering people to “bend the knee” after just arriving in Westeros doesn’t seem like a good place to start. Maybe I’m wrong, but we will see how Jon reacts should she ask him to do so.

Overall, not the most exciting episode by any means. The highlight for me was all of the first meetings between long-time characters (Sam/Jorah, Dany/Mel, Cersei/Randyl, Dany/Olenna, etc.) And of course the return of Nymeria and Hot Pie. There’s plenty of plotting and scheming, and the payoff is coming soon.

Until next week, hang out and stay awhile. Invite an Unsullied to join us. And may there always be peace in your realm.  –Oz

Follow Oz on Twitter.

**SPOILER NOTE: The Management of this fine site would like to remind you that spoilers (book or leak) are not allowed in Unsullied posts.  This includes spoilers covered by code or otherwise.  Personally, I appreciate feedback from Sullied and Unsullied alike, so long as they do not include any type of hinting or conversation related to the written verse.  However, spoiler coded comments do tend to lead to further Sullied conversation and for that reason, we ask that you please refrain from posting any SPOILERY content whatsoever in Unsullied posts. Thank you for the coop. -Oz

212 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Really? No comments? I’m first? That’s a first. Hodor!

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    2. You didn’t like Dany in that conversation with Varys? I thought she was the perfect mix between strength and understanding. “I accept your ‘honest loyalty’, as long as it’s honest.” Judging from his smile, Varys seemed to entirely agree. 🙂

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    3. As an attendee at Con of Thrones, it was nice to see Carice show up when and where she was supposed to.

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    4. Wow!
      Nymeria! Arya going to Winterfell! Man that sea battle. Euron is one crazy mf! Loved his entrance!

      This was a really great episode.

      I loved Dany and Tyrion talking about Jon. I am very looking forward to Jon and Dany finally meeting and Jon seeing Tyrion again. They seemed to have a great respect for each other.

      And it was great that Jon gives Sansa the control of the North when he goes to Dragonstone. Now we’ll just have to see how she is going to deal with it. But at least he finally gave her the public respect that she wanted. But I am nervous about LF influence.

      Sam helping Jorah was great albeit disgusting.

      Arya reuniting with Nymeria was amazing and a great call back to season 1. And I am so glad Arya is going to go to Winterfell.

      Great to see that Qybard has a weapon against the dragons, but wouldn’t it be better to practice with moving targets?

      And that sea battle was simply amazing! Mark Mylod got a lot of flack last season, but did a great job here.

      PS. Will Theon run into Gendry? And instead of The Prince or Princess That Was Promised
      why not The Prince AND Princess That Was Promised?

      Great recap as always Oz! Ha, who needs a worm? 🙂

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    5. Dany/Varys was best scene.

      Worst was yet another gross jump cut (greyscale soup).

      Littlefinger needed to die like 8 episodes ago.

      Surprised there are two Nymerias in the show.

      Sansa/Jon are annoying.

      Wonder if we’ll get the 7.4 title today.

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    6. Varys is being all James Comey to Dany’s demand for loyalty and I’m here for it 🙂

      Sam managed to gross us out even more than last week. What a rebel, but dude … wear a face mask and face shield! Air and blood born pathogens dude!!!

      Nymeria is a grown direwolf now and has a mega pack to run, she shows Arya that everyone needs their pack.

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    7. Sansa is definitely not playing any 3D chess. She has been through a lot…admittedly. However, her character has reverted to the impetuous, impulsive, selfish child of the early seasons. That’s too bad. Maybe she stumbles into a more active role that affects the course of events. She did exactly what she promised not to do in the previous episode. She is either too passive or takes initiative for selfish reasons…no grand plan or self-awareness.

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    8. At this point, it is still difficult to tell what kind of ruler Dany is going to be. But ordering people to “bend the knee” after just arriving in Westeros doesn’t seem like a good place to start. Maybe I’m wrong, but we will see how Jon reacts should she ask him to do so.

      Of course she has to say “bend the knee”
      She is queen, after all.

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    9. The Wolves of Winter: Great to see that Qybard has a weapon against the dragons, but wouldn’t it be better to practice with moving targets?

      We might get another “Mountain vs. the prisoners” scene.. this time the prisoners will be suspended on a moving crane while Lannister soldiers try and hit them with the ballistae.

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    10. What a fantastic episode!!!!!

      Things I loved so much:
      – The conversations between the different characters – Fantastic – don’t need to repeat what everyone is saying
      – Call backs to previous seasons with Arya and Nymeria, “that’s not you”, Arya and Nymeria paralleling Dany and Drogon, will Nymeria come back to her? Jon in the crypts choking LF, just like Ned did before. Arry and Hot Pie, Cersei looking like Joffrey and she shoots that damn arrow.
      – Dany saying Jon Snow, and Jon saying Daenerys Targaryen – MY HEAD E X P L O D E D
      – “The prince who was promised” name drop
      – WILL JON AND DANY ACTUALLY MEET???????????? OMG
      – MAISIE WILLIAMS WAS GOLD in this episode… her facial expression go straight to my heart and I adore it
      – All the scenes in the North with Jon make my heart skip a beat. I loved the scene with the council… where they were opposing him, ALL OF THEM… and he defended his position. And loved the interaction with Sansa, sooo much. Jon scene with LF was one of my faves.
      – Dany/Emilia… fantastic.

      Other notes:
      – Cersei is winning right now.. im so over her.
      – I am starting to accept Euron as a character/villain.

      Yesterdays episodes felt like an information overload of amazingness.. I need to rewatch this one asap…

      I probably have more to add later.

      ANOTHER killer episode. Thank you, D&D

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    11. Dee Stark,

      Hello Dee. I see you’re in full fan form again and your positive vibe is simply incredible. Yes, Dany and Jon will actually meet!!! Very soon, I believe. Haha, why is it so hard to believe? I think it was quite destined to happen and they’re just “two people who are total strangers to each other”. Well, I’m sure their first meeting will be great, although I can imagine it will be really tense.

      Any way, you made very great points about the episode. Even though I have a lot of trouble with “warming up” to Arya, I really liked all her scenes in this episode. Like you said, this could have been her best episode up to date.

      My full review is under way. I’m still writing it and I cannot restrain myself when it comes to words, so it will be huge. I will post it here in a short time. Keep writing these. I always enjoy such a positive attitude towards the show!

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    12. Lord Parramandas,

      haha thank you!!!!!!!! 🙂

      it is hard to believe because they are two iconic characters who never even mentioned each other before, and now it ishappening?!?!?!?! ALREADY!?!?!?

      I cant imagine that it would go well?!?

      IM SCARED

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    13. Dee Stark,

      I’m sure it will be a tense scene… they’re both stubborn and they both have demands. Well, we’ll probably see next week. Although for me personally, Jon and Dany are not so “iconic” characters… I see all the main characters as somewhat iconic and for me, it was harder to imagine Jon and Sansa reunite than Jon and Dany meeting.

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    14. Cersi landed the first punch. That first punch will serve as a wake up call for someone to be a Dragon. Cersi has an insane, self serving, pirate. Dany has intelligent Dragons. Who do you think will stay loyal? So Tyrion’s first plan flopped. Learn and move on. One major thing Cersi has against her is she doesn’t inspire love or loyalty. She has used the fear of the unknown to get people onside. Give her time and she will prove how unworthy she is to rule anything. As more people meet this new Queen who cares for all the people not just herself that Sept burning witch may meet justice.

      One person with something to fear is Arya coming home is Littlefinger. He still loves that Iron throne more than anyone and I’m sure he will overplay his hand with Sansa. He could end up in a pie that’s all him if the Gods are the willing. Arya could try browning the butter first this time. Okay that’s just a wish. Where are Ramsay’s dogs?

      The first two episodes are exposition for what’s to come and I want to see some Dragons!

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    15. Lord Parramandas:
      Dee Stark,

      Hello Dee. I see you’re in full fan form again and your positive vibe is simply incredible. Yes, Dany and Jon will actually meet!!! Very soon, I believe. Haha, why is it so hard to believe? I think it was quite destined to happen and they’re just “two people who are total strangers to each other”. Well, I’m sure their first meeting will be great, although I can imagine it will be really tense.

      I’ve expected the two of them to meet but not this soon. After season 6, I was thinking/imagining Dany riding to the north by season 7 finale or season 8 premiere (when the great war begins) and that’s how they’ll meet. I’ve never thought of Jon being the one to go to her. But it makes sense now why he has to leave for Dragonstone. I agree, when they finally meet, I expect it to be tense.

      Good luck with your review write-up!

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    16. Sam,

      EXACTLY
      I thought she would be going to him, not the other way around. So I am surprised and will be so surprised if it happens and may die lol

      I have a bad feeling it wont go well.

      I think right now, Jon Snow is almost ALONE in the fight against the army of the dead…

      We shall see I guess.

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    17. Dee Stark: WILL JON AND DANY ACTUALLY MEET???????????? OMG

      Totally with you. So hyped for this. Also don’t see it going all that well. But Davos will be there as well to talk some sense.

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    18. Dee Stark,

      It’s GoT… things are not meant to always go well. Just like in this episode how Nymeria turned away from Arya. The show would have been boring if it was strict “good guys vs bad guys”. I believe Dany and Jon may warm to each other in time… especially if there is any political marriage involved. But for the beginning, I feel it could be really tense. Dany is not really the most warm person at the moment, and Jon possesses such a typical Northern stubborness.

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    19. Dee Stark,
      You’re right. He does seem to feel “alone” in the sense that he’s the only one who’s seen the NK and the walkers, especially now that Tormund has gone to man the Eastwatch.

      I hope they do get along and ally with each other. I can’t help but remember what Jon said in an interview about what he expected would happen if the two characters met. 😀

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    20. I’m looking forward to the Jon and Daenerys meeting next week! The Nymeria scene was sad but at least she lives to see another day. Crossing my fingers no direwolves die this season!

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    21. Dee Stark,

      I always look forward to reading your thoughts on the episode.

      And lol, Joffrey would be proud of his mama! He is looking up to her from whatever circle of hell he is.
      She’s emulating his love of crossbows AND his haircut. 😀

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    22. Soulburn420,

      You ask where is the Milk of the Poppy for Jorah. That is a good question. My guess is the rum was available to Sam but Milk of the Poppy might be a “restricted substance” as in you have to be a full fledged maester to have access to it. But then, he was able to get all the other implements and stuff to make the ointment for Jorah. I dunno, it might just be a “you need a prescription” vs home remedy situation. But, you are right, where is the Milk of the Poppy when you need it!

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    23. Sam,

      I didn’t read that interview!
      I expect they will align… but not at first

      Vincent Stark,

      Thank you! I love your comments also
      Hahaha!! Yes.. she does look like Joffrey also. Love the parallels.

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    24. Is there any limit how big in size can a review be to post it on this thread? Because my own review just got removed even though it was strictly about the show with no book stuff.

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    25. If I were an adviser to Dany, I would say, leave Jon King in the North, but make him a Prince of the 7 Kingdoms. This way he can tell his bannerman the North is still more independent than the other “kingdoms” and Dany can demand that he bend the knee (at least when he’s at her court). This would give the North a Status Aparte and still be part of the 7 Kingdoms as a whole. Jon would be in a position elevated from the other Lords Paramount but just be one step below Dany’s position.
      An excellent stepping stone for a political marriage as Jon is now a better candidate for Dany than any other lord in the land. She gets the North practically for free (the North has it’s own armies) and the North gets the most powerfull ally they could wish for.
      Thanks for reading this. How would you feel if this would play out in the coming season?

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    26. Lord Parramandas,

      This is the Unsullied post- and there’s no such thing as a former book reader. Minimal comments in here from people who have read the books, and definitely no big reviews like that. I left the one you posted in the other recap up.

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    27. Sue the Fury,

      I always thought the rule for this post is show-only with no book references and no spoilers from the filming. And I think I didn’t violate anything in my review.

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    28. Hah, I just realized how Arya knew how to make pies in the first place: from traveling for weeks with a boy who talked constantly on that very subject.

      “You been making pies?”

      “One or two.”

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    29. Dee Stark,

      Sorry, Dee. I’m not allowed to post my (completely book free) review here due to reading books a couple years ago, or even posting a link to it. I find it strange that I was allowed to do it for the premiere episode. I hope I’m at least allowed to say this… my review is on other post, Sue’s recap one.

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    30. Dee Stark,

      Yes, I’m just making a thread for my reviews on General Discussion one. I really don’t understand why I was able to post the “Dragonstone” one here.

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    31. For me, after seeing Nymeria, the best part was seeing Ned Stark’s statue in the crypt! It looked so much like him, and it was great seeing Jon going to him (sniff). I was glad Jon threw Littlefinger against the wall, especially in front of “Ned.” I’m just waiting for the moment they all realize it was Littlefinger who betrayed Ned Stark!

      Regarding Milk of the Poppy, isn’t the whole point of Jorah that he suffers??? He does the sexiest grimace!

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    32. Dee Stark:
      At this point, it is still difficult to tell what kind of ruler Dany is going to be. But ordering people to “bend the knee” after just arriving in Westeros doesn’t seem like a good place to start. Maybe I’m wrong, but we will see how Jon reacts should she ask him to do so.

      Of course she has to say “bend the knee”
      She is queen, after all.

      Will Jon Snow bend the knee for Daenerys or was Tormund right when he said to Jon “you’ll never be a kneeler again”.

      In season 5 Daenery’s told Tyrion that she was going to break the wheel and HBO used that line in a season 7 promo.

      Daenery’s didn’t need Olenna’s advice to be a dragon. I wonder what Daenery’s wanted to talk to Olenna about…. Olenna did the talking.

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    33. OK, setup episode number two with two inconsequential deaths in a night battle at the end. Am I the only fan a little disappointed in the season so far? We have but 7 episodes to look forward too, and now two hours have been essentially wasted on oddly slammed together preamble sequences. I thought this year was going to be faster paced, and actually it as slow as usual. The Melisandre/Dany meeting was forced, the Jon/Littlefinger face off was slammed into the wall, literally — AND THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT! Arya’s going South. No, North. No, maybe just making eye contact with a Direwolf. So far the “grand meetings” of characters are spotty at best. C’mon, D&D, I for one am still waiting for the Season That Was Promised. (All that said, I was a little bored in season five until a little event went down at Hardhome that shut me up completely…)

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    34. Dee Stark,
      Oh that was a few years ago (maybe around season 3 when nobody knew yet what would happen to the characters). It was GRRM’s class, I think, (he was there) and Kit was on a video feed as a guest. Somebody asked Kit what he thought would happen when Jon and Dany finally meet. He said something like, “they would either fight or f*ck!” LOL! Everyone laughed, including GRRM. 😀

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    35. firstone,

      I don’t think he will bend the knee, and I don’t think she will stop her quest to get Cersei to go north with dragonglass. Jon and Dany meet soon… I don’t think the meeting is going to go well.

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    36. Dee Stark,

      Jon kneeling… I don’t see it happening. I feel he’s too stubborn for that, too much a Northern. Or maybe he would… we can be never sure.

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    37. Dee Stark,

      But she really is not. At least not until she seizes the Iron Throne. She’s currently a pretender. Cersei is Queen, she conquered the titled by killing all who stood in her way. Jon is King because his people decided that they wanted to be led by him. You can even say that Euron is King for the same reasons as Jon’s. Daenerys is only a queen because she decided to call herself a queen. She is a Khaleesi because she was married to a Khal. She is a Targaryen princess but in Westeros she is no queen yet. Though she will most likely end up as the Queen of a number of Kingdoms in Westeros.

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    38. Dee Stark,

      Anxious, hyped and exhausted at the end of the day from all the reading and writing GoT related stuff … at least I didn’t get a tension headache this time.

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    39. Dee Stark,

      I know that Robert and Ned were supposedly good friends from childhood so I don’t think it was hard for Ned to bend the knee to Robert. Dany and Jon are strangers at the moment.

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    40. Danny,

      Okay… but she has (had) multiple houses supporting her claim.

      And fine, she isn’t actually queen yet, not until she unseats Cersei
      HOWEVER, as someone who is coming to claim her “rightful” throne, I don’t see an issue with her requesting that the seven kingdoms bend the knee to her. This will show her who is on her side or who will support her claim

      Stannis called himself King.. and asked of other to bend the knee, before he claimed the iron throne.

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    41. Dee Stark,
      You are completely right but Ned was never King. The North was not a sovereign territory, neither under him nor under his predecessor.
      Robb, conversely, was King of an independent North and when Catelyn had to negociate with Renly, that was quite an important matter. Renly dismissed it fairly quickly, saying Robb could keep on calling himself King as long as he bent the knee which amounted to giving the North a status similar to Dorne’s, namely a farce of an independence.

      The Dornish may like to say they are unbowed, unbent and unbroken, that they were never conquered by the Targaryens and that their alliance with the Crown was built on matrimony instead of submission but they, until recently, were just as dependent on the Crown as any other region. Theirs was one of the Seven Kingdoms ruled by King’s Landing, regardless of the royal titles their rulers maintained.

      If Jon bends the knee to Daenerys, the North is no longer sovereign.

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    42. Lord Parramandas,

      I agree… but Jon doesn’t want to be King of anything… and I can see why he wont bend the knee to Cersei … but why wouldn’t he to Dany?
      I don’t expect him to right away…. but what would be his reason?!? Why wouldn’t he support her claim if he wont support Cersei’s claim. Robb Stark didn’t bend the knee to Joffrey because Joffrey killed his father. If Jon wants to make allies to fight against the WhiteWalkers and the army of the dead, the smart thing to do would be to bend the knee to Daenerys Targaryen

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    43. Kent,

      The deaths may have been inconsequential, but the battle itself was not. In one fell swoop, Dany lost all her Westerosi allies. Add the fact that Arya is now heading home, Jon is heading to Danerys, Grey Worm is now on his way to Casterly Rock, and Cersei now has a dragon killer, this episode moved the plot along nicely. I was at first worried that the episodes would move too quickly and there wouldn’t be enough time for small character moments, but luckily they managed a balance between the two.

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    44. ACME,

      Yes, I see what you are saying.
      Good point.
      But if Jon doesn’t care about all that stuff, which he doesn’t at the moment because his number one priority is the great war…. then should he care if the north is no longer sovereign?

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    45. Dee Stark,

      He might not care… but the Northeners most certainly do… They might feel betrayed and give Jon some trouble if he bends the knee.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Lord Parramandas,

      I agree with you, also don’t see that happening. But maybe it don’t have to go that bad considering how Dany handled talking Yara and Theon last season. And Tyrion and Davos will be there as well. Both of them always talk sense. So hopefully they can make a deal together.

      And not to mention that Tyrion maybe believes in the WW as well. In season 2 when the small council got the raven from LC Mormont telling about the wights Tyrion says “Mormont doesn’t lie” because of meeting him in season 1. He will probably believe Jon as well.

        Quote  Reply

    47. Young Dragon,

      This! The pace has definitely quickened but it doesn’t feel rushed. We’re actually spending more time with the characters than ever before. The show is much more focused now.

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    48. A Dornish Tyrell,

      I pray that Jon doesn’t bend the knee.

      If Daenerys tries to conquer the North, she betrays everything that she claims to be.

      The North declared its independence to free itself from tyranny.

      Its people chose their own ruler.

      There are no slaves to be freed or oppressive regimes to be dismantled.

      If Daenerys demands Jon bend the knee upon threat of her marching into the North, setting its villages and castles ablaze and slaughtering Northmen defending their homes and independence, then she’s a hypocrite.

      Destroy Cersei and her regime, by all means. She murders innocent people who oppose her, rules with an iron fist and installed herself on the throne with no right and at nobody’s request.

      I really hope they don’t have Jon meekly bend the knee to Daenerys. There’s just no logical or narrative need for it.

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    49. Dee Stark,

      The thing with Stannis though, which differs a bit from the Dany situation, is that Stannis was right in believing he was the true and direct heir to Robert’s kingdom. He knew none of Cersei’s children were Robert’s so he as his oldest surviving sibling was in fact next in line to the Baratheon crown. Dany thinks she is next in line to the Targaryen crown, the only thing is that Targaryens have not ruled the Seven Kingdoms in about 2 decades now. So if she wants to be queen she will need to conquered the crown.

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    50. Dee Stark,
      It is counterintuitive indeed. But as Dornish Tyrell said, the Northern lords really want their independence; they view it as payback for the humiliation of the War of the Five Kings…
      Furthermore, it appears the lords do not really get what the stakes of the Great War are. They probably view the White Walkers as another form of Wildlings, basically : people who come from the North’s north, want to breach the Wall and kill Westerosi. That is why Lord Glover initially opposed the training of children and women; to him, the Great War is just another military conflict and he sees no need to break with tradition to fight it.

      There is a reason why the KitN proclamation scene in 6.10 looked like a funeral : the colour palette was sinister (greys, whites and blacks), the lighting was cold and washed out, the parallels with Robb’s coronation (and we know what happened to Robb), etc. The lords putting a crown on Jon’s head only makes things more complicated for him.

      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
      You are right; if Daenerys threatens to take over the North with her army, she will most certainly destroy her personal mythology (but after Olenna’s advice, who knows if she will care ?). However, she may demand Jon bend the knee as payment.

      At the moment, the North needs Daenerys, desperately so. They need her dragons and dragonglass. Yet, they have nothing to offer her in exchange. Why would the Targaryen give away her natural resources and endanger her “children” to help out a foreign nation without any compensation ?
      She made a deal with Yara because the Ironborn came to her with a fleet; Jon is about to show up empty-handed. As of now, the only thing the North has to offer is its submission.

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    51. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      To be honest, I don’t think Jon will bend the knee… My guess is that Davos is going to somehow convince Dany to at least postpone the issue of the independence of the North for after the Great War.

      Regarding Dany, we will have to wait and see… After Olenna’s advice, she might go full Aegon the Conqueror on Westeros… Especially after losing her Armada and valuable allies.

      Lord Parramandas,

      Can’t wait to watch how the meeting goes!! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    52. ACME: At the moment, the North needs Daenerys, desperately so. They need her dragons and dragonglass. Yet, they have nothing to offer her in exchange. Why would the Targaryen give away her natural resources and endanger her “children” to help out a foreign nation without any compensation ?
      She made a deal with Yara because the Ironborn came to her with a fleet; Jon is about to show up empty-handed. As of now, the only thing the North has to offer is its submission.

      OH!! Excellent points!!

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    53. I have to laugh at all those people (not too many in these parts, but plenty of them in more darker corners of the internet) calling names to Dany for demanding people to bend the knee. Stannis did it all the time, but he’s Stannis the Manis, so he gets a pass. Jon made two kids bend the knee last episode and he was so kind and fair and wise for not taking their family castles from them. But Dany asks for a loyalty oath and she’s an entitled bitch.

      I just can see how next events will go:

      Jon: Hello, Miss Targaryen. There’s a horde of undead and wintering things keen to exterminate us all. Dragonglass can kill those things and you have plenty.
      Dany: I see.
      Jon: Also, fire is really useful against them and you have three dragons.
      Dany: Uh-huh
      Jon: Finally, wars have really put a dent in our numbers and you have a lot of soldiers.
      Dany: That’s right.
      Jon: So, we would like to borrow the whole lot if you don’t mind.
      Dany: Fine, bend the knee and you got a deal.
      Internet: F#*KING ENTITLED BITCH!!!
      Jon: Sorry, not really my thing.
      Dany: Well, you know where the door is. Bye.
      Jon: For centuries our families fought together against their common enemy… We need to do the same if we’re going to survive, because the enemy is real.
      Dany: All that talk of togetherness is really heartwarming, but still someone has to be in charge.
      Jon: That would be me.
      Dany: I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms and I will!
      Davos: If we don’t put aside our enmities and bound together, we will die and then it won’t matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne.
      Internet: YOU TELL HER, DAVOS! f#*KING ENTITLED BITCH!!!
      Davos: Actually, I was telling both of them.
      Jon: What we are talking about here is war, and what we need is a military commander.
      Dany: I conquered three city-states and put down a coalition of slavers. What military experience have you?
      Jon: (Mumbles) I rode headlong into my enemy’s trap.
      Dany: You know nothing, Jon Snow.
      Internet: F#*KING ENTITLED BITCH!!!
      Other corner of Internet: (swooning) Their kids are gonna be so cute!
      Another cornet of Internet: LALALA, I CAN’T HEAR ANYTHING. I’M JUST WAITING FOR THE BOOKS.

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    54. Dee Stark,

      She did! She accepted the changes Dany imposed on the Iron Islands:
      “You will support my claim as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. And respect the integrity of the Seven Kingdoms. No more reaving, roving, raiding or raping.”

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    55. Dennai,

      LOOOOOOOOOL

      Sorry, but that was really funny.

      I completely agree with you …. theres so much of that “she is entitled etc” but everyone else does it its fine.

      Someone made a good point here that she isn’t really recognized Queen in Westeros… though I slightly disagree with that because she has great Westerosi houses who support her claim. … Therefore her “bend the knee” comment to me, is fine.

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    56. Great recap Oz!

      I thought the Varys trial was especially interesting, and brought back some memories of previous Varys moments. Do you think he still wants to be the one on the iron throne? In Season 4, I remember he was chatting with Oberyn, and said something along the lines of “the absence of desire leaves one to pursue other things”, then looks to the throne.

      Could this all be a great Varys scheme?

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    57. Dee Stark:
      Lord Parramandas,

      I agree… but Jon doesn’t want to be King of anything… and I can see why he wont bend the knee to Cersei … but why wouldn’t he to Dany?
      I don’t expect him to right away…. but what would be his reason?!? Why wouldn’t he support her claim if he wont support Cersei’s claim. Robb Stark didn’t bend the knee to Joffrey because Joffrey killed his father. If Jon wants to make allies to fight against the WhiteWalkers and the army of the dead, the smart thing to do would be to bend the knee to Daenerys Targaryen

      The reason is that the rest of the North wants to be independent. Think of him as the elected representative for the North. He has to do what his constituency expects of him or they won’t have confidence in him to lead them, and won’t stand together with him against the White Walkers.

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    58. Do we still think Arya is heading back to Winterfell? Or did the Nymeria meeting remind her that she’s not the highborn “lady” that would retreat back to her home and family at the first opportunity?

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    59. “it makes we wonder if the whole “swear you won’t betray me” deal is a setup for Varys to do just that once he realizes that Jon is a Targ.”
      You mean you think if/once Varys learns that Jon is a Targ, he will jump ship on Dany and swim in Jon’s direction because Jon is a male? I can’t decide if I’m being sarcastic here or not – Varys HAS been loyal to her; to think that he would automatically head toward dick is distasteful. I wasn’t totally on board with her methods either, not the Bend the Knee bit or the Burn you alive bit. But, she is Queen. She needs to lay the law, but I think she’s a tad off balance.

      Another interesting part to me is that she DOESN’T LIKE DRAGONSTONE She doesn’t feel at “home,” and Tyrion tells her they won’t be there long. So where’s she going to go? If we believe all the visions we’ve been shown, she doesn’t sit the Iron Throne – it sits burned out and covered in … snow. If she doesn’t like Dragonstone, where will her capital be? Dorne? I’ve a feeling there will be another vacancy there soon.

      There stood old Randyll, with Dickon at his side, eating up every crumb Cersei threw. As a side note: every time I see or hear Dickon’s name I can’t help picture GRRM, toiling away in the night, writing about neutered Unsullied, and Theon and Varys then trying to come up with a good name for Randyll’s son. “oh, I don’t know” he mutters. “Rickard? Bentley? ackkk all I know his dick is on.” OK, I’ll show myself out now .

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    60. Thronetender: Another interesting part to me is that she DOESN’T LIKE DRAGONSTONE She doesn’t feel at “home,” and Tyrion tells her they won’t be there long. So where’s she going to go? If we believe all the visions we’ve been shown, she doesn’t sit the Iron Throne – it sits burned out and covered in … snow. If she doesn’t like Dragonstone, where will her capital be? Dorne? I’ve a feeling there will be another vacancy there soon.

      Well.. “we wont stay here long…” I am guessing they are assuming they will head to King’s Landing.. obviously
      We have seen those visions.. they haven’t… I don’t think she will sit the throne at all. At least not before heading north
      But what do I know. I am unsullied AF and almost always wrong.. except on a few things (R+L=J lol)

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    61. Dee Stark,

      Yep, every usurper, wanna-be conqueror or pretender to the throne in history has demanded oaths of loyalty as a first step to see you as friend and ally. It’s how feudal societies worked. You can rightfully argue that Danny is not a sanctioned queen, but that will only work as long as she doesn’t win.

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    62. Melissa,

      I heard a theory that is intriguing. Maybe I find it that way since I would prefer it. 🙂 The theory is that Sansa is playing LF somehow by making him think there’s a rift between Jon and her.
      When they’re chatting with just Davos they communicated much better and showed mutual respect. A woMan can hope.

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    63. Dee Stark: We have seen those visions.. they haven’t… I don’t think she will sit the throne at all. At least not before heading north

      Yeah, Dee, Dany saw that vision when she went through the House of the Undying. Remember? She was wandering through, following the sounds of her baby dragons and she comes to the Throne room; the roof is burnt out, as though burned from above. But everything in the room remains intact, not a molten blob, so wildfire didn’t burn it. She passes beneath what looks to be an iron SPIDER WEB with a spider in it, then comes to the actual throne. She reaches, close, closer, but doesn’t touch it. Her dragons screech again. She withdraws her hand and follows the sound through what looks to be the gate at Castle Black and walks to the tent where Drogo and the baby are. So, the vision has shown that she does go north of the wall too.

      The reason I emphasized the Spider Web thingy that’s hanging there, is because I have thought from the beginning that it would be shown that Varys had far more to do with the overthrow of Kings Landing than had been shown before this scene. I think Varys getting a full speech in this episode reminding us of his exploits is showing us that maybe Littlefinger isn’t the most crafty behind the scenes lizard in the land – Varys is.

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    64. Thronetender,

      Yes I know she saw it.. but what did she actually think of this vision, we don’t know… so she assumes she will be going to KL… which is what was meant by Tyrion when he said we wont be here long..

      I absolutely know almost everything about this show, but do not remember the spider web. this is a very interesting observation

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    65. I liked everything with Sam in it tonight. The scene where Ebrose and Sam walk through the library collecting tomes contained a call out to an earlier episode. The one with Tyrion and Bronn looking over old books and trying to pronounce the name Chevilson … ( I don’t know how it’s spelled). Varys comes in and pronounces it perfectly. Ebrose plops the volume onto Sam’s pile and says Chevilson, terrible writer, great historian. I thought it was cute.

      Maybe Sam’s gag reflex was tempered by all the shit. He needed a steel stomach to peel Jorah the way he did. I was gagging, for sure. Brave on both their parts, poor Jorah gets completely skinned. Ebrose is going to go ballistic when he sees what Sam has done. He specifically said the practice had been outlawed. There is no way or nowhere Jorah can hide, so what happens? Maybe they will care for Jorah until he heals a little more, but I think Sam is going to get booted out for trying forbidden methods. Qyburn got booted for the same thing.

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    66. Lundy,

      Yeah I think it would be too easy to have Sansa ally with LF now that Jon is out of Winterfell and plot some sort of uprising. Perhaps that’s what the producers want us to believe. I think she will end LF one way or another. I don’t see where else his arc can go with 11 episodes left.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Ryan:
      Dany/Varys was best scene.

      Worst was yet another gross jump cut (greyscale soup).

      Littlefinger needed to die like 8 episodes ago.

      Surprised there are two Nymerias in the show.

      Sansa/Jon are annoying.

      Wonder if we’ll get the 7.4 title today.

      I want to see Queen Daenerys and Petyr Littlefinger Baelish in the same room for a while and hear what they say to each other.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ryan:
      Dany/Varys was best scene.

      Worst was yet another gross jump cut (greyscale soup).

      Littlefinger needed to die like 8 episodes ago.

      Surprised there are two Nymerias in the show.

      Sansa/Jon are annoying.

      Wonder if we’ll get the 7.4 title today.

      If you want to get technical that transition is called an Arabesque. And I LOVED it!

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    69. Did Jaime say ‘I hate my sister.’? It came out of nowhere, but I think it is really important for the rest of the serie. Great episode btw. No words for it.

        Quote  Reply

    70. JohnnyLaw:
      Do we still think Arya is heading back to Winterfell?Or did the Nymeria meeting remind her that she’s not the highborn “lady” that would retreat back to her home and family at the first opportunity?

      Good question, I’ve be wondering about this myself. Did seeing Nymeria chose her pack over Ayra represent that Ayra really does need to go back to her “pack” at WF? That Arya is not really a lone wolf ? Or that while she may be a trained assassin, that is not who she really is but what circumstances have twisted her into and she needs to get back to Jon because he was one of the few people she felt she could be herself around? Or is it like JohnnyLaw suggests, she realizes being a Lady of Winterfell is not a role for her and she takes up her list again or simply goes as far west as one can go? Do Lannister soldiers find her but this time realize her connection to the Frey killings? Remember the bittersweet ending comment from GRRM…. could Ayra’s future be part of the “bitter?” And sooner than later?

      Personally, I hope she makes it back to WF, sees Jon, Sansa, and Bran, then uses Brienne as a sort of role model of how a highborn lady can chose a different life. Maybe she can help train the girls for the war to come. It would be good to see a reunion with Sandor and have her play a role in the death of LF but one cannot have all one desires!

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    71. I’m surprised to see there’s been very few (if any comments) on the Grey Worm/Missandei intimate scene? I presume from that we have to presume that GW neither has the pillar or the stones 😉

      However one thing is for sure? Like Missandei speaking all those different languages/tongues, GW apparently is also a cunning linguist! 😀 😀

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    72. In the opening credits sequence which flies over the map, why does Kings Landing still have the Baratheon stag sigil instead of a Lannister lion? Is this an oversight by the showrunners?

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    73. The crossbow looks powerful enough, but how do you aim that massive thing? It’s not like you are shooting at castle walls that don’t move or masses of densely packed infantry who move slowly, and are big, can’t miss targets. Dragons fly around and bob and weave, unlike Rickon Stark. I guess we will find out.

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    74. Hey book readers and people-I-know-have-been-frequenting-filming-spoilers posts? Don’t. Just…don’t.

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    75. If Jon bends the knee it will be for a greater purpose. He has seen the Night King and knows that the Battle for the seven kingdoms matters little if they all end up dead. He’d bend the knee because she has asked and to get some rapport going. He isn’t married to the idea of being a King anyways.

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    76. Also, I need to mention that Euron’s face expression when he boarded Yara’s boat was priceless. A true expression of a madman.

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    77. Dee Stark,

      If Sandor and Brienne spend 5 minutes together talking instead of ear-biting and groin-punching, they’d deduce that DouchebagFinger betrayed Catelyn AND Ned.

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    78. firstone: Will Jon Snow bend the knee for Daenerys or was Tormund right when he said to Jon “you’ll never be a kneeler again”.

      In season 5 Daenery’s told Tyrion that she was going to break the wheel and HBO used that line in a season 7 promo.

      Daenery’s didn’t need Olenna’s advice to be a dragon. I wonder what Daenery’s wanted to talk to Olenna about…. Olenna did the talking.

      What do you mean?? Dany said thank you to Olenna..but knowing she is most there because of their mutual hatred for Cersei.

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    79. Dee Stark:
      Lord Parramandas,

      I agree… but Jon doesn’t want to be King of anything… and I can see why he wont bend the knee to Cersei … but why wouldn’t he to Dany?
      I don’t expect him to right away…. but what would be his reason?!? Why wouldn’t he support her claim if he wont support Cersei’s claim. Robb Stark didn’t bend the knee to Joffrey because Joffrey killed his father. If Jon wants to make allies to fight against the WhiteWalkers and the army of the dead, the smart thing to do would be to bend the knee to Daenerys Targaryen

      And he will, soon or later. But Dany won’t demand this time.

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    80. Arya and Nymeria scene was one of the most saddest moments in the whole series..Maisie Williams delivering a strong performance again! bravo!!!

      i’m happy dany called Varys on his bullshit. You can’t trust him 100%, he goes with the flow, he goes with who is on the top of the game and help his own selfish interests..nothing mroe, now he is against cersei, because what more he could do? Dany is his best shot. Let’s wait and see what he will do after he knows Jon is also a Targaryen..

      I love all the dialogues with Dany and Olenna and Dany and Melisandre..Season 7 is already a bless for bringing all those people together and finally sharing a scene.

      I love how everyone on Winterfell was against Jon going to see Dany and he didn’t even listen..

      Sansa: “you can’t go, you can’t abandon your people”
      Jon: ‘You’re in charge”
      Sansa:
      “HAVE A NICE TRIP”

      Sansa’s writing is again a mess and inconstant..or is Sophie’s acting..in this scene, all i got was that she was happy when jow was leaving so she could be in the charge of winterfell

      Ad Theon..oh boy..that was bad..but honestly not a surprise..Euron is a Ramsay 2.0 for him..of course he would panic..

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    81. The Wolves of Winter: Great to see that Qybard has a weapon against the dragons, but wouldn’t it be better to practice with moving targets?

      AND build it outside. It’ll never fit through the door. 😉

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    82. onefromaway,

      I thought Arya asked Nymeria to come home to WF with her – but realized Nymeria didn’t want to.

      Meanwhile, that one scene had better not be the last time they see each other. I’ve been waiting six seasons for them to meet again. 3 minute scene won’t do it

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    83. Black Raven,

      I may be mistaken, but it seemed to me Missandei looked relieved at the moment she laid eyes on Grey Worm nether regions. That look would make me assume they didn’t “take the pillar with the stones”. But hey, I definitely need a rewatch (not just of that scene, obviously, who do you think i am?).

      Otherwise while I’m kinda glad the Dorne plot is getting more finalised by the minute, I can only be saddened by the lack of chances for Obara and Nymeria’s actresses to shine – with Indira and Rosabell probably being close to their end in GoT as well. Pretty much like Alexander Siddig, he could’ve done so much more…

      Young Dragon,

      I definitely wouldn’t say Daenerys “lost all her westerosi allies” with Euron’s (obviously significant) victory. As I understood it, Euron attacked (and pretty much destroyed) Yara’s fleet heading to Dorne for Ellaria’s soldiers (so probably with Dorne’s contribution to the fleet as well).
      However Olenna probably remained at Dragonstone and lent her ships (if there were any) to the originally slavers’ fleet to transport Unsullied aiming for Casterly Rock.

      There’s even a slight chance all Dorne will get really pissed at another bunch of their rulers being killed by Lannister lackeys and even more fiercely supporting Daenerys. Or maybe not, hard to tell. Could kinda get messy, same as in the Reach with Tarly probably going against Olenna.

      What I don’t dispute though is that Cersei got off to an unbelievably good start.

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    84. Dee Stark,

      Just a question…which houses are those? The Dornish (though the only ones we see are the Sandsnake assassins); or the Tyrells (who are losing most of their houses, and the matriarch only in it for revenge).

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    85. Ten Bears,

      As for Nymeria, the scene really reminded me of all real-life moments when you come to the place or meet somebody you have in good memory after a long time… and it’s not the same again. That this very “something” is missing.

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    86. Young Dragon: The deaths may have been inconsequential, but the battle itself was not. In one fell swoop, Dany lost all her Westerosi allies.

      How did Dany lose all her Westerosi allies? Yara was dispatched to Dorne to transport the Dornish army to King’s Landing. They didn’t make it there. So, the Dornish army is still intact. They may be leaderless, but they aren’t necessarily lost as an ally to Dany. Furthermore, none of the Tyrells were on Yara’s ships. So, the Tyrell’s (and Olenna) are still at full power. Really, all Dany lost was a portion of her fleet (roughly 100 ships) but she still has her own ships from Mereen (captured from the last attack by the slave masters) as well as the Tyrell fleet at her disposal (I believe the Tyrell’s had the 2nd best fleet in Westeros behind the Greyjoy’s, but I could be wrong about that). In any case, the real loss was having two leaders (Yara and Ellaria) be captured.

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    87. The Wolves of Winter: I agree with you, also don’t see that happening. But maybe it don’t have to go that bad considering how Dany handled talking Yara and Theon last season. And Tyrion and Davos will be there as well. Both of them always talk sense. So hopefully they can make a deal together.

      But will Davos be able to talk sense? If he sees Melisandre (or hears she was there) he might go off and lose his sensibilities.

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    88. Ryan:
      How did Euron know to find them between Dragonstone and Sunspear?

      Euron is psycho, but he’s not an idiot. Jamie was able to easily figure out Dany would land first at Dragonstone. It wouldn’t be tough for Euron to come to the same conclusion. So, from King’s Landing, he’d be sailing the brief route north to Dragonstone and would easily intercept Yara. The real question is with a hundred ships in Yara’s fleet and it being pitch black at night, how did Euron find Yara’s ship among the other ~99 and get to it before alerting any of her other ships?

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    89. Thronetender: but I think Sam is going to get booted out for trying forbidden methods. Qyburn got booted for the same thing.

      Indeed Qyburn did. However, Archmaester Ebrose seems to be pretty wise. Yes, he’s wrong to dismiss the threat of the White Walkers/wights but his logic behind it is sound. And, yes, he’s rather conservative (not wanting to attempt treating greyscale). He’s got to be a pretty good judge of character though. Qyburn is odd and creepy. His radical experiments while at the citadel (or when after he graduated…not sure when was officially “disbarred”) were more sinister in origin. Sam just wants to help. I’m not saying Sam won’t get booted, but I can see a possibility where Ebrose realizes Sam is doing it for good rather than evil.

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    90. MasterofThrones:
      Did Jaime say ‘I hate my sister.’? It came out of nowhere, but I think it is really important for the rest of the serie. Great episode btw. No words for it.

      I thought he said (to Randyll) “I know you hate my sister” (but I could be wrong).

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    91. Bunkerbill: The crossbow looks powerful enough, but how do you aim that massive thing? It’s not like you are shooting at castle walls that don’t move or masses of densely packed infantry who move slowly, and are big, can’t miss targets. Dragons fly around and bob and weave, unlike Rickon Stark. I guess we will find out.

      I initially wondered the same thing, but recall when Drogon was impaled numerous times by those spears in Mereen: he had landed. So, yeah, it’d be almost impossible to hit the dragons in the air (unless Qyburn also developed some heat seeking missile technology), but if a dragon lands for whatever reason then they’d be more vulnerable. It would still require being close enough and turning the crossbow in the right direction in enough time…but definitely within the realm of possibility.

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    92. Tamwell Sarly: I thought he said (to Randyll) “I know you hate my sister” (but I could be wrong).

      I think you are right.

      Side note : Jaime really is a discreetly brilliant man. When introduced to Tarly’s son, he ventures a guess about his name and goes for “Rickard”, the name of half the Stark father-and-son duo massacred by the Mad King in his throne room. Given the speech Cersei had just made about the dangers of a new Targaryen reign, Jaime’s “mistake” is clearly a very intentionel reminder of the horrors of the last Dragon’s regime, directed at a father and his son. Crafty!Jaime

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    93. Tamwell Sarly,

      Without Ellaria, who’s left to lead Dorne? I doubt we’ll see the Dornish army enter the fray without her. Yara was captured and the Greyjoy fleet is in ruins. You’re right, she still has the Tyrells, but all the Reach lords have joined Cersei behind Randyll Tarly.

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    94. Lundy,

      I have also read this theory and I like it a lot. If Sansa is doing this, she hasn’t told Jon, but that could just be because she doesn’t think he’s a good enough actor to pull off the ruse. It also has the side benefit of allowing Jon to show his macho-ness to the Northern Lords by putting his foot down and sticking to his decisions. If she does it enough, it will also hopefully prompt him to take her into his confidence more.

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    95. Young Dragon:
      Tamwell Sarly,

      Without Ellaria, who’s left to lead Dorne? I doubt we’ll see the Dornish army enter the fray without her. Yara was captured and the Greyjoy fleet is in ruins. You’re right, she still has the Tyrells, but all the Reach lords have joined Cersei behind Randyll Tarly.

      Plot wise, you are probably right. It’s too late to introduce a new leader of Dorne. But that doesn’t mean they won’t still play a role in the background. Meaning, let’s say Dany’s forces do end up setting up a siege of King’s Landing as originally intended. We could just be told the Dornish army is there or maybe see some random Dornish soldiers in the background when we see Tyrell soldiers. As another commenter pointed out, Dorne could be even angrier now that Cersei and the Lannisters have taken out yet another prominent Dornish leader. So, yeah, Dorne may be out of the story going forward. But, they do still have their full army so technically Dany hasn’t lost them as an ally per se. And also, just because some Lords from the Reach side with Cersei, doesn’t mean the Tyrell army isn’t still strong without them. They’ve said in previous seasons that the Tyrell’s have the largest and best supplied army in Westeros.

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    96. Ten Bears,

      You are right. I was just wondering what impact, if any, Nymeria’s decision would have on Arya. I suppose we’ll find out soon. And I agree, I hope we see the two of them together again at some point, even if its just Nymeria and her pack traveling in the woods close to Arya but out of sight, sort of keeping an eye on her until she gets well into the North.

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    97. ACME,

      One thing that the North has to offer is information.

      Jon knows about the White Walkers, he knows how to kill them, he knows how to kill their army, he knows their numbers… Daenerys and her crew are pretty much oblivious to the threat marching their way, its scale or how to tackle it, aside from some vague description from Melisandre.

      If the writers want to play Jon smart (which sadly can’t be guaranteed), they’ll have him leverage his information about the threat against Daenerys’ support. Daenerys and all her supporters are doomed anyway without Jon’s intel and efforts.

      The other thing the North has to offer are the only two (three if you count the Wildlings) armies in Westeros familiar with fighting in winter conditions. The Dothraki, the Unsullied, the Dornish… none of them will have experienced the sort of winter that the Night King brings with him. They will need the expertise Jon’s forces can offer.

      But, as you say, if Daenerys takes Olenna’s advice and decides that being a dragon is the only way she can get the Seven Kingdoms into line then she might ignore all that and be completely uncompromising.

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    98. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Sure, but that information can only be used as leverage if you’re able to convince them of threat and it’s scale; otherwise, it doesn’t really mean much from TeamDany’s POV. At the moment, Dany is concerned with unseating Cersei; she has no idea of how urgent the need to band together is because she has not seen the WW’s. We see that even Sansa is more concerned with Cersei because as she states (paraphrasing) “there’s a massive wall standing between them and the White Walkers”.

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    99. Jay Targ,

      Convincing them of the threat is imperative before committing to any alliance, regardless of whether or not he bends the knee.

      If he bends the knee without having convinced them of the threat then he simply commits himself to follow Daenerys’ war against Cersei, since he can’t turn round five minutes later and ask why his Queen is killing soldiers they’ll need for the great war and dragging Northmen down south to fight her battles.

      So if we take it as a given that he has to convince her of the gravity of the threat before any alliance can be committed to, then the information he holds that is key to defeating that threat is of equal or even greater value as bending the knee.

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    100. There is a reason why the KitN proclamation

      At the moment, the North needs Daenerys, desperately so. They need her dragons and dragonglass. Yet, they have nothing to offer her in exchange. Why would the Targaryen give away her natural resources and endanger her “children” to help out a foreign nation without any compensation ?
      She made a deal with Yara because the Ironborn came to her with a fleet; Jon is about to show up empty-handed. As of now, the only thing the North has to offer is its submission.

      What about Stannis’ fleet that Jon “borrowed” to go to Hardhome? I can’t remember any reference to them since then, shouldn’t they be Jon’s at this point, hanging out at Eastwatch or something?

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    101. The downside of watching the show so many times, sometimes you know/remember too much…when Sam told Jorah he was in the NW and was with his father when he died, all I could think was, shouldn’t Jorah want a little more explanation on that? Besides the usual questions one would have about any last words, how he’d been, etc… in this case, what Jorah heard from Tyrion about his father’s death is that his own men turned on him and killed him…and here’s one of his own men that was there! 🤔

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    102. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,
      Information could indeed be a great bargaining chip but, for the moment, Jon does not have enough for it to be significant, I think.

      Sam has not yet found anything new about the White Walkers and Jon has not been in touch with Bran so the younger Stark’s discovery about the Others’ origins is, as of now, unknown to him (also, without any context, that piece of information cannot serve as basis for any kind of strategy).
      By the time Jon finishes explaining to Daenerys what he would like for her to provide the North, he will have told her pretty much everything he knows about the enemy… He wants to fight the White Walkers because they can kill the living and reanimate the dead, he needs dragonglass because that is one of the two materials that can destroy them and he would like her dragons’ fire because it can eradicate the Wights.

      That is about all Jon knows on the matter as of now. He has no intel to withhold and use as leverage just yet. He may have some in the future, thanks to Sam and Bran, but right now, his “hand” is not looking good. I suppose he could try to bluff but I am skeptical as to the potential success of such a strategy.

      Now, his armies’ expertise in regards to fighting in winter would be an excellent bargaining chip, you are completely right. However, as you pointed out, it will only be of value if Daenerys and co. believe him wholesale about the White Walkers. That is quite a big “if”.

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    103. Thi Targaryen: And he will, soon or later. But Dany won’t demand this time.

      Oh, goodness. I really really hope this is not a spoiler. I’m enjoying my unsullied experience this season so far so I don’t want to be spoiled now.

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    104. Thi Targaryen: is his best

      Sansa’s writing is again a mess and inconstant..or is Sophie’s acting..in this scene, all i got was that she was happy when jow was leaving so she could be in the charge of winterfell

      Sansa didn’t look happy to me when Jon asked her to be in charge of the North. I didn’t even sense underlying glee or “triumph”. I don’t know if you noticed, she briefly glanced at LF with the look of what seems like… worry/concern? (almost similar to her expression during the KITN scene). I wondered when I saw that if she’s worried that LF would try something sinister now that she’s been given the keys to the north. She seemed really concerned about Jon leaving.

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    105. Of the old gods,

      What about Stannis’ fleet that Jon “borrowed” to go to Hardhome?

      Great question. Wun Wun made them into toothpicks?

      Speaking of the late great WW, because of Bran’s vision there’s talk upon the land that he will return as a White Walker, though I can’t believe Jon and Tormund wouldn’t have given him a hero’s funeral pyre.

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    106. Of the old gods: What about Stannis’ fleet that Jon “borrowed” to go to Hardhome? I can’t remember any reference to them since then, shouldn’t they be Jon’s at this point, hanging out at Eastwatch or something?

      I’ve been thinking about that for a while myself… and then it hit me: Maybe that’s why the WW horde is heading to Eastwatch. Perhaps the White Walkers are the next to sail into Blackwater Bay 🙂

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    107. Dee Stark: Is this going to happen??

      HOW?????? “

      Well… With Arya on her way to Winterfell, I think LF needs to disappear or his smirky smile will be history pretty fast 🙂 I mean she did overhear the entire conversation between him and Tywin (in The Ghost of Harrenhal, season 2), where LF clearly revealed his intention to side with the Lannisters and plot against the Starks (Robb) and Tyrells. As far as I remember LF hasn’t been on her kill list, but I don’t think anything can make our little assassin spare his life, once she discover his further intentions regarding Sansa and his quest for power (maybe from talking to Sansa and Brienne).

      ” Other notes:
      – Cersei is winning right now.. im so over her. “

      Absolutely!! But Qyburn’s dragonkiller-thing though…OMG!! 🙁 I fear she might live long enough to see it in use?!?! I’m telling you right now, if she takes out a dragon, i’ll book a ticket to Westeros and snap her neck SLOWLY myself!

      ” – I am starting to accept Euron as a character/villain. “
      Exactly as we hoped for last week – my Danish, laughing psycho is beginning to grow a bit on me too after Stormborn. Let’s just hope he doesn’t get too good! 😀

      By the way Dee, I gotta say: I plow through as many WotW-comments as much as my sparetime allows, and from time to time I’ve seen comments against your wish/need for capitalized text, BUT – superhyped comments like THIS…:

      ” – Dany saying Jon Snow, and Jon saying Daenerys Targaryen – MY HEAD E X P L O D E D
      – “The prince who was promised” name drop
      – WILL JON AND DANY ACTUALLY MEET???????????? OMG “

      and so many other precious comments of yours are just pure gold 😀 😀 😀 …or rather DRAGONGLASS these days 😉

      The fan force is clearly strong with you 😉 and I see others fans thinking the same, so please don’t let anyone – or No One – stop you! It’s always a cracking good read and as contagious as Greyscale 😀 Along with WotW’s dedication among writers, editors and fans, it makes way too much time spent on WotW so worth while!!!!

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    108. Randyll tells Jaime that he and Olenna have known each other since they were children

      No, he didn’t. Olenna is quite obviously way older than Randyll. He actually told Jaime that he had known Olenna ever since HE was a child. She was an adult back then.

      Also, Oz, sorry if it seems like I’m nit-picking but…

      The Dragonglass Letter (some ravens are not as fast as others)

      Have you thought that maybe not all scenes are shown in the exact order they take place in that fictional world? 😉 You know, there is no rule that the showrunners HAVE to show them in that exact order. Just like there is no rule that they need to explain (with dialogue, captions, or whatever), when in-universe time has passed between GoT scenes, and it has been skipped; and yet viewers complain about “jetpacks” 😐 So, maybe, just maybe, the Dragonstone scene with Dany telling Tyrion to send the raven might have happened BEFORE the Ep.1 scene with Sam reading the book and sending his raven; and they showed them to us in reverse order, to make the episodes work 😉
      I do realize that you were joking with the “some ravens are not as fast as others” remark, but… yeah, I’m just sayin’. 😛

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    109. e=”comment-925421″>

      Tamwell Sarly: Qyburn is odd and creepy
      Maybe odd and creepy, but darned effective when he needs to be. Just a side comment, I get what you are saying about Ebrose maybe being more practical in his judgement of Sam’s attempt to help, as opposed to crazy Qyburn and his “create a monster” experiments.

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    110. All in all, I thought this was a great episode. A good mixture of action and dialogue, good scenes between well-loved(/hated) characters in new configurations, and Arya turning North. (woop woop!!) Could it be that she and Bran turn up at Winterfel at the same time, like next episode?? Can’t wait for the ultimate Stark reunion!! (Especially looking forward to Arya and Sansa discovering mutual appreciation for each other, and Bran talking to them about his visions of Jon…)

      Of course, you all realize that this means that one of them is going to die soon, right?

      You’re an evil, evil man, Ozzy Ozthrones – the sweetest scene after Jon and Ygritte’s cave bath, and you turn it sour! (And don’t even think about stressing how *that* relationship turned out to prove your point, just don’t!) Still, thanks for the re-cap, a great read as always!

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    111. Thronetender,
      to think that he would automatically head toward dick is distasteful.

      Dick? Do you mean Jon? Well if Varys did not agree with the way Dany is conquering/ruling and he knew there’s another more level headed Targaryen that’s actually doing shit to save the realm why wouldn’t he jump ship if it came to an either/or? I don’t think would have anything to do with being a man or a woman. Varys is all about the good of the realm period.

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    112. Dennai,

      That was pretty funny 🙂 But we all know, it’s not just the things one does, but the way in which they go about doing it. One says things with self righteous, venomous tone the other with a humble, plaintive one and who do you think will garner more support?

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    113. Hey Oz, I always enjoy your Unsullied recaps!

      Saw you at Con of Thrones and wanted to approach and say hello but didn’t because …….. reasons…… ??

      Also wanted to say thanks for your commentary and your great writing style. As a book reader I enjoy all the different recaps, but I am partial to yours.

      Your interview with Kate was a highlight of the weekend for me, as well. Thanks again and keep up the good work!

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    114. Speaking of late Stannis’ fleet somewhere over Eastwatch or other, weren’t they in large part mercenaries/pirates he paid to serve him in the war? If so, I wouldn’t be surprised to see most of them dispersed to the seas shortly after news of Stannis’ death came.
      However some actual Stannis’ ships (assuming he had any remaining/built after Blackwater) might have stayed north and would sorta answer to Davos –> so Jon.

      Of the old gods,

      Very good point. Then again I suppose Jorah had other things on his mind (Daenerys, possibly his suicide) AND Sam doesn’t immediately look like the type of guy that would kill his commander.
      If they stay together for a while though, I would expect some closure. Also, this could be another way to get important Winter/Wights/White Walkers information to Danaerys via Jorah.

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    115. Dee Stark,

      Dany doesn’t know Jon, to her he’s one more man to prove herself to. Besides the obvious that only Bran knows R+L=J he’s someone she has to find common ground with. They share one thing, they have risked their lives for the people not just their crowns. I look forward to their meeting.

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    116. Lord Parramandas,

      I think that Arya is making the transition from ‘no one’ to something like the girl who got needle from Jon. She will never be that little girl again but she has begun to relax, enjoy a song, and laugh a little. I’d still check her cooking for mystery meat.

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    117. Dennai:

      Dany: All that talk of togetherness is really heartwarming, but still someone has to be in charge.
      Jon: That would be me.
      Dany: I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms and I will!
      Davos: If we don’t put aside our enmities and bound together, we will die and then it won’t matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne.
      Internet: YOU TELL HER, DAVOS! f#*KING ENTITLED BITCH!!!
      Davos: Actually, I was telling both of them.
      Jon: What we are talking about here is war, and what we need is a military commander.
      Dany: I conquered three city-states and put down a coalition of slavers. What military experience have you?
      Jon: (Mumbles) I rode headlong into my enemy’s trap.
      Dany: You know nothing, Jon Snow.

      That’s one way of looking at things, highlighting Dany’s achievements, and at the same time completely undermining Jon’s deeds. It’s funny how people defend their faves by undermining others.
      He has experience fighting an army of the undead. He fought them at Hardhome, he knows what it is like to have a horde of mindless zombies charging at you, he knows how to kill said zombies. He knows how to fight in winter, in the snows, even in a snow storm brought on by white walkers, something which neither Dany herself nor any of her army is familiar with.
      Fighting zombies is not the same as conquering cities. They are not humans, they don’t behave like humans and she knows absolutely nothing about them. If she wants the entire command based on her past achievements, while knowing nothing about fighting the undead, good for her, but she would be an absolute fool to say “you know nothing Jon Snow”.

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    118. Tamwell Sarly: But will Davos be able to talk sense? If he sees Melisandre (or hears she was there) he might go off and lose his sensibilities.

      Well in the first trailer Davos says “If we don’t put aside our enmities and bound together, we will die, and then it doesn’t matter whose skeleton sits on the Iron Throne”. I think he wil say this during their meeting with Dany. Though he still might lose it when he sees Mel.

      So excited for this. Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Davos and Mel all in one scene. Get hype!

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    119. Where’s the Night King when you need his expertise? (That’s a reference to the Night King who was at the SDCC (a cosplayer in the audience)). He said he was in California because he was in the Marines. I don’t have any knowledge of naval strategy – I don’t know if any ex-naval (or serving naval) personnel ever read posts on Watchers on the Wall; I wondered if anybody with naval experience could explain the feasibility of Euron’s fleet being able to sneak up on Yara’s fleet unbeknowst as I know some folk have queried how plausible it was. There was something in the news a while ago about modern-day piracy – I think off the coast of Somalia. (And I’m NOT having a pop at Somalians). Seemingly some people have been taken unaware by pirates even with all the benefits of 21st century technology.

      As ever, I enjoyed reading Oz’s words.

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    120. The Wolves of Winter,

      Do you think that Jon’s ego has grown so much that he’d let bending the knee get in the way of saving the kingdom? I’m not saying there won’t be some personality clashes first.

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    121. Dead Dane Walking,

      Oh my God you are so so kind!! Thank you for the nice words on my comments. 🙂 🙂 🙂
      I wont stop!!

      I also agree with you on all your thoughts.
      And I had predicted prior to the start of the season that we may lose a dragon… and that damn weapon I think may have proved me right.

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    122. ygritte,

      a) I don’t want a submissive Jon. I am telling you what I think is likely going to happen. And bending the knee to Dany for the greater good does NOT make him submissive. How many times does he have to say how great the threat of the Others and the Long Night is? If that really is the case.. bending the knee should be the least of his worries if they need POWERFUL allies like he was saying….
      b) Robb Stark didn’t bend the knee, and it got him and all of them killed. Jon doing the opposite would probably be the smarter thing to do for his people

      I was just playing devils advocate in saying he technically should be bending the knee if getting powerful allies is truly what they need to do right now.

      But I am hoping that Jon will be able to convince Dany about the WW and everything else.. that the politics will be the least of er worries… HOWEVER… I think its a bit early for that. Shes got her eye on the throne and I don’t think she will walk away just yet… I think she will send Jon away, take the throne, and walk away from it as soon as its hers…

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    123. Lord Parramandas:
      Ten Bears,

      As for Nymeria, the scene really reminded me of all real-life moments when you come to the place or meet somebody you have in good memory after a long time… and it’s not the same again. That this very “something” is missing.

      That’s never happened to me. It’s always been wonderful. 😊

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    124. T Rufus Martin,

      Personality clashes. Ya think? Lol. The mood here towards the whole thing is quite different than the other couple of sites I’ve been at. How do you think a man who’s earned his way to the top and says just recently that he didn’t even want or expect to be acknowledged and crowned will get along with a woman who is acting as entitled as she can possibly be?

      Jon Snow may end up bending the knee if she stubbornly requires it in exchange for helping him save the world from atop her dragons, but it doesn’t paint her in a good light if once she gets the measure of him that is all she is still concerned about.

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    125. ghost of winterfell,

      ghost of winterfell: He has experience fighting an army of the undead.

      Correction. He has experience getting his ass kicked by an army of undead.
      Saying that “He knows how to fight in winter, in the snows, even in a snow storm brought on by white walkers” is like saying “Theon knows how to fight on a ship, in the night, even in a fire storm brought on by Euron’s Ironborn”. Are those valid credentials to give him command of the fleet?

      Anyway, my comments were in reaction to what I see as very biased comments all over Internet towards Dany. Do’nt be so quick in considering that she’s my favorite. In fact, I hope neither Jon nor Dany survive the end of the series.

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    126. Dee Stark:
      Dead Dane Walking,

      Oh my God you are so so kind!! Thank you for the nice words on my comments.
      I wont stop!!

      I also agree with you on all your thoughts.
      And I had predicted prior to the start of the season that we may lose a dragon… and that damn weapon I think may have proved me right.

      Haha, that user described you really well – the “fan force”. And even though I may not always agree with screencap writing, I will always have your back due to your really positive attitude. How did I say once… you were the original proof that positivity can make the show even more special experience.

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    127. ygritte,

      I just lucked out and found this place.

      Dany is acting like a queen and Jon is the guy who used to inhabit the back of the banquet hall. When they meet they will have the formal game face on but both of them have known suffering and they share a love for the people they rule. I’m sure there will be a butting of heads but their hearts are different than people like Cersi and Littlefinger. They also have Tyron and The Onion Knight to keep it civil. Plus I can’t wait for Jon to meet the boys.

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    128. I agree that Arya is no longer a child but a favorite program I watched said ‘who you once were informs all that you become’. That child is who helps her laugh and connect to her wolf her brother and sister and Hot Pie the survivor. Even the look in the eyes of Nymeria show everyone knows what it is like to long for the past. Doesn’t mean she will stop ticking people off her hit list.

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    129. ghost of winterfell,
      All of what you wrote is true however it draws on what we, the audience, know, not what the characters themsemves are necessarily aware of.

      Daenerys had never heard of Jon until about thirthy seconds ago and he is the King of the independent North, one of the Seven Kingdoms she has been saying she wants to rule for 6 years now. Tyrion told her he is a great man, which is wonderful, but he knows very little about Jon’s accomplishments; Melisandre is aware of much more but she is still a bit of an intruder in the Queen’s cabinet and she used to serve Stannis, the “usurper” ‘s brother, so Daenerys may view her with just a hint of suspicion.

      Furthermore, Jon is going to arrive at Dragonstone with a request for help and not much more. As of right now, he does not have a battle plan just yet. He has excellent ideas (mining for dragonglass, training everyone, watching and manning the Wall) but no all-encompassing strategy he can withhold and use as leverage against Daenerys and her request to bend the knee. Sam and Bran’s intel will, I have no doubt, eventually lead to the elaboration of a plan but, as of now, they have nothing immediately useful.

      I believe the only way Jon could push for an equal partnership is by using Littlefinger’s tried-and-true method, namely finding Daenerys’s weakness and capitalising on it. The Mother of Dragons says she wants to fix her father’s legacy. She wants to leave the world in a better shape than her ancestors did. That is what makes her bid for the throne palatable to people who, otherwise, would shudder at the mere thought of another Targaryen ruling Westeros. This is where Jon could strike.

      It so happens that the Starks have zero Dragon blood on their hand while the Targaryens are responsible for three Direwolf deaths in the last 25 years : Rhaegar “killed” Lyanna (as far as everyone knows) and Aerys butchered Rickard and Brandon. If Daenerys is sincere in her desire to fix her father’s legacy, she should want to repay the Starks for the completely unjustified and unspeakable pain her family caused them.

      Three lives for three lives : Jon could ask for the dragons as compensation !

      Either Daenerys accepts and they have a deal or (more likely) she refuses and looks like quite the hypocrite in the eyes of her supporters : the queen who will gladly claim and take her father’s inheritance but will not pay his debts… It is a bit below the belt but I would think it is worth a shot. Kicking Daenerys where it hurts, namely her reputation and self-image.

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    130. You know who actually should be fighting it out for the throne at the end. Gendry and Jon. Both bastards (except Jon probably isn’t) only, even if legit, Jon’s fam were overthrown so it would go to next in line Baratheon, cause Jon won’t raise an army to take it back, he don’t care. But Gendry not even really part of the show anymore so…

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    131. T Rufus Martin:
      The Wolves of Winter,

      Do you think that Jon’s ego has grown so much that he’d let bending the kneeget in the way of saving the kingdom? I’m not saying there won’t be some personality clashes first.

      I don’t think it has to do with his ego, but more about his responsibility he feels to the North and its people. Because they chose him to be their King and with that also to be independent again. Their will definitely be some clash for sure.

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    132. Lord Parramandas:
      The Wolves of Winter,

      I must say I do find it interesting how Davos lost his temper over Melisandre and her methods in S6 finale but he asked her himself to revive Jon.

      Yeah, but I don’t think he was entirely sure about it before he found the wooden stag he gave her.

      BTW I really love that scene. Liam and Carice were simply brilliant in it. It still gets me.

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    133. Dennai:
      ghost of winterfell,

      Correction. He has experience getting his ass kicked by an army of undead.Saying that “He knows how to fight in winter, in the snows, even in a snow storm brought on by white walkers” is like saying “Theon knows how to fight on a ship, in the night, even in a fire storm brought on by Euron’s Ironborn”. Are those valid credentials to give him command of the fleet?

      Anyway, my comments were in reaction to what I see as very biased comments all over Internet towards Dany. Do’nt be so quick in considering that she’s my favorite. In fact, I hope neither Jon nor Dany survive the end of the series.

      I don’t understand this comparison with Theon at all, because those statements about Theon are obviously not true. He isn’t a maritime warrior, who is good at fighting at night or any of it.

      Whereas Jon’s experience in fighting in winter is a real advantage for him. He (and his army) has known how to fight and survive in winter wilderness since he went beyond the Wall in S2. This is something that Dany’s army will struggle with, given that they are used to warm weather. We have real life examples for this, see Napolean’s failed conquest of Russia, which showed how hard it is for an army not used to such climate, to fight and survive extreme cold.

      I am not saying he needs to have the control. I dont care about that. I only argued against your assertion that Jon’s military experience was limited to his charge into the Bolton army. That is not even counting the time he took charge of the defence of the wall with barely 100 men, hardly any of them being trained fighters.

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    134. ACME,

      I agree with your analysis. I can’t really say anything about their interaction though, since I already know how things turn out 🙂 .

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    135. Lord Parramandas,

      I must say I do find it interesting how Davos lost his temper over Melisandre and her methods in S6 finale but he asked her himself to revive Jon.

      He did the latter before he found out what happened to Shireen.

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    136. Watching the scene of Qyburn with Cersei, when he explains what happens in meereen with drogon. I think someone is sharing the same little-birds with Qyburn to get information.

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    137. Thronetender: You mean you think if/once Varys learns that Jon is a Targ, he will jump ship on Dany and swim in Jon’s direction because Jon is a male?

      Jon’s claim could take precedence over Daenerys.
      The Iron Throne would have passed to Rhaegar if he had survived. As long as all his children were thought to be dead, his siblings Viserys and then Daenerys were next in line.
      But if Jon is revealed to be Rhaegar’s legitimate son, he has a better claim than Daenerys.

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    138. Of the old gods: What about Stannis’ fleet that Jon “borrowed” to go to Hardhome? I can’t remember any reference to them since then, shouldn’t they be Jon’s at this point, hanging out at Eastwatch or something?

      Were those ships bought or just hired?
      Either way, they were financed by the Iron Bank, so it wouldn’t surprise me if the Bank had seized them, since Stannis never paid back the loan.

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    139. Hi all! Long time reader, first time poster here!

      I may have missed this, but how does Sam know Jon is at Winterfell?

      Many thanks!

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    140. I guess so? It just seems like Sam finding out Jon was killed by members of the nights watch, they all died, Jon left and went through the BOB and is now KITN would be profound enough to Sam to see on screen.
      Thank you for your response!!

        Quote  Reply

    141. ash,

      He did but he was very much aware that Melisandre burned men on many occassions before… he never liked her but I find it a bit weird that he’s first asking her to save Jon and then wanting her dead because of Shireen.

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    142. Yourmom:
      I guess so? It just seems like Sam finding out Jon was killed by members of the nights watch, they all died, Jon left and went through the BOB and is now KITN would be profound enough to Sam to see on screen.
      Thank you for your response!!

      I agree, which makes me think he will find out later

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    143. Of the old gods,

      I thought that myself when Jorah was told about his father’s death and the fact that Jon had Longclaw. I hope someone explains that the old bear gave the sword to Jon and why.

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    144. Yourmom:
      I guess so? It just seems like Sam finding out Jon was killed by members of the nights watch, they all died, Jon left and went through the BOB and is now KITN would be profound enough to Sam to see on screen.
      Thank you for your response!!

      Yourmom
      ash
      : I agree, which makes me think he will find out later

      Do you really? I also would’ve hope to see a scene with Sam getting this knowledge. Now I just think it would be a little weird, if Sam already know enough about Jon now to send the raven to Winterfell – but not knowing what happened in order for Jon to become KitN after mutiny, resurrection and BoB…

      I mean he is after all at The Citadel where all chronicles of history are documented and preserved…they must know! So if we were to see Sam learning about these past events, wouldn’t it be unnecessary in a narrative sense? D&D are moving at lot faster now, and in two episodes we’ve already seen several examples of characters getting information off screen. I think we just have to get used to filling in the blanks ourselves towards the grand finale 🙂

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    145. That is a good point. Things are moving waaay faster now. It just seems almost negligent not to give some explanation of this though!

      However, what if Sam sent the raven to Castle Black and it was forwarded to Jon at Winterfell, it just wasn’t explained…?

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    146. Yourmom,

      That would even calm down the people that got confused by Jon getting the letter from Tyrion first, despite the scenes of writing/planning letters were in reverse order.

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    147. Thronetender:
      “it makes we wonder if the whole “swear you won’t betray me” deal is a setup for Varys to do just that once he realizes that Jon is a Targ.”
      You mean you think if/once Varys learns that Jon is a Targ, he will jump ship on Dany and swim in Jon’s direction because Jon is a male? I can’t decide if I’m being sarcastic here or not – Varys HAS been loyal to her; to think that he would automatically head toward dick is distasteful.

      Really, that’s how you interpreted Oz’s comment? Given the context of Varys’ statements, it’s pretty obvious he would like Jon because Jon is not seeking power, he’s seeking to save his people – to serve the realm, if you will. Dany is more of a mixed bag. I think Jon has a side that enjoys the power also, enough to wield it…but without the sense of entitlement that competes with duty in Dany. Just try to picture Jon giving to the Wildlings the speech that Dany gave to the Dothraki about conquering Westeros, tearing down their stone houses and giving her the 7 kingdoms. I found it chilling. I like Dany and still cheering for her but her best intentions are only half her story, and surely Varys can see that.

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    148. ACME: You are right; if Daenerys threatens to take over the North with her army, she will most certainly destroy her personal mythology (but after Olenna’s advice, who knows if she will care ?). However, she may demand Jon bend the knee as payment.

      At the moment, the North needs Daenerys, desperately so. They need her dragons and dragonglass. Yet, they have nothing to offer her in exchange. Why would the Targaryen give away her natural resources and endanger her “children” to help out a foreign nation without any compensation ?
      She made a deal with Yara because the Ironborn came to her with a fleet; Jon is about to show up empty-handed. As of now, the only thing the North has to offer is its submission.

      The White Walkers isn’t just a Northern problem they threaten the whole realm, the further south they go the bigger their army will become. If they are left to sweep through the North without much resistance then their undead army could amount to numbers in the millions, considering the fact that they reanimate animals as well.

      If the White Walkers passes through the North unchecked then the whole realm is lost, it would literally be a zombie apocalypse. This is really a problem for every single person in the Seven Kingdoms, this not just Jon’s problem. If Dany wants to be the Queen than she has to protect the people within the realm.

      One big problem that people are not taking into consideration is that the further the White Walkers can travel south the bigger their army becomes, and they don’t need any food or supply lines. Everyone is talking about how the Wall is still standing, so it isn’t really a problem for them. But it would be much better and more effective to kill the White Walkers as soon as possible, while they are still somewhat contained. If the Wall somehow falls down than everyone’s troubles would be a thousand times worse.

      Jon would bend the knee if he was 100% convinced that Dany will fight against the White Walkers.

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    149. Of the old gods,

      Thank you.

      For the record, none of my interpretations or (bad) speculation has anything to do with the sex of the players involved. Rather, it has everything to do with dialogue, the manner in which it is delivered and the context of the scene. The show is known for dropping subtle hints on us.

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    150. In case anyone is still reading this, I wanted to say that I thought Jon installing Sansa as ruler in the North without one peep of protest from the Northern Lords was brilliant political Jujitsu. Anticipating Sansa’s protests, letting them play out in public, seeing the Northern Lords agree with her and then saying, you’re right, I have to take the risk, but I’m putting the most right person, whom everyone here agrees with in charge.

      So smart.

      And Littlefinger sees how deft that was and then goes down to try to put his hooks in him, he says “Cat underestimated you” when what he means is “I underestimated you.”

      I LOVE that Jon had no use whatsoever for LF. He remembers LF sold Sansa to Ramsey. You could see it in his face.

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    151. Dead Dane Walking: I mean he is after all at The Citadel where all chronicles of history are documented and preserved…they must know!

      When Sam arrived at the Citadel, they didn’t even know that Jeor Mormont was dead and no longer the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. And that happened years prior! They also didn’t know Aemon was dead. So, the Citadel is keeper of history but they obviously don’t get frequent updates from the far reaches of Westeros.

      So I doubt Sam knew about more recent events at the Wall and in the North. The only logical explanation, to me, is that the Wall forwarded the raven’s message on to Jon at Winterfell. However, that begs the question: if the Wall did forward the message, why have they not yet notified Jon about Bran?

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    152. TOIVA: That would even calm down the people that got confused by Jon getting the letter from Tyrion first, despite the scenes of writing/planning letters were in reverse order.

      Why are people worked up or confused about Jon getting Tyrion’s message first? I don’t get it. And I’ve heard people try to explain it away by suggesting the order we see stuff in the shows isn’t necessarily how it unfolded in the real time line. That may be, but there’s a more logical explanation. Oldtown and the Citadel are further away from Winterfell than Dragonstone is! Hence, Sam’s raven would have to travel further to get to Winterfell than Tyrion’s! Boom – simple!

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    153. emilyred: In case anyone is still reading this, I wanted to say that I thought Jon installing Sansa as ruler in the North without one peep of protest from the Northern Lords was brilliant political Jujitsu.

      People are still reading. Jon has always been pretty strategically and politically adept…much more than given credit for. From infiltrating the Wildlings and convincing them all including Mance, to realizing the Wildlings were needed as an ally and letting them through the wall, how he handled Ser Aliser Thorne’s constant seething hatred, etc. Sure, he was a bit naive when he first got to the Wall thinking he’d be automatically named a ranger and also thinking he would get to go out ranging with Benjen. The only real blunder he’s made was the in-the-heat-of-the-moment dash to save Rickon in the Battle of the Bastards.

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    154. Tamwell Sarly: Why are people worked up or confused about Jon getting Tyrion’s message first? I don’t get it. And I’ve heard people try to explain it away by suggesting the order we see stuff in the shows isn’t necessarily how it unfolded in the real time line. That may be, but there’s a more logical explanation. Oldtown and the Citadel are further away from Winterfell than Dragonstone is! Hence, Sam’s raven would have to travel further to get to Winterfell than Tyrion’s! Boom – simple!

      In the same way that a lowly Lannister soldier doesn’t expect a raven on the birth of his child, Sam is just a maester apprentice… he likely has to wait his turn in the payphone line just like all the rest of the grunts.

        Quote  Reply

    155. emilyred:
      In case anyone is still reading this, I wanted to say that I thought Jon installing Sansa as ruler in the North without one peep of protest from the Northern Lords was brilliant political Jujitsu. Anticipating Sansa’s protests, letting them play out in public, seeing the Northern Lords agree with her and then saying, you’re right, I have to take the risk, but I’m putting the most right person, whom everyone here agrees with

      I had the same thought, on the rewatch I tried to see if Sansa looked like she already knew and they were playing that out together, but didn’t look like it, but the glances to LF are odd – is she still looking to him for guidance ( I wouldn’t think so)? Wary of his reaction? To what was happening? Gauging whether the scene had the right effect? Would love to know for sure if it was all a calculated move or not, either on his part or together.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Tamwell Sarly:

      When Sam arrived at the Citadel, they didn’t even know that Jeor Mormont was dead and no longer the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. And that happened years prior! They also didn’t know Aemon was dead. So, the Citadel is keeper of history but they obviously don’t get frequent updates from the far reaches of Westeros.

      So I doubt Sam knew about more recent events at the Wall and in the North. The only logical explanation, to me, is that the Wall forwarded the raven’s message on to Jon at Winterfell. However, that begs the question: if the Wall did forward the message, why have they not yet notified Jon about Bran?

      I would counter that the day-to-day life of Castle Black isn’t of general interest to the vast majority of people in Westeros, whereas the anointing of a new KitN certainly is. A raven or two might have gotten lost or been shot down, or the record-keepers at the Citadel might have dropped the ball on updating the front-desk clerk’s Exceedingly Large Book of Names; either way, very few people in the Seven Kingdoms would have heard about what happened to Jeor and Aemon, or cared to ask about them. On the other hand, news of King Jon has traveled far and wide, from Cersei in KL to Hot Pie in the Riverlands. Sam is presumably not confined to the Citadel, and the news has certainly spread through the streets of Oldtown.

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    157. Tamwell Sarly,

      Well it’s the age old problem of “jetpacks” and whatever. The show just can’t show all storylines at the same time and speed. That can lead to apparent continuity problems that are only imaginary.

      As far as Sam knowing Jon is a new KitN: Given how that information seems widespread, Sam should know as well. Curiously, almost nobody knows Jon died and was resurected (probably for the better, he would lose all credibility), so Sam basically has no reason to worry for him. Meaning he could actually send the raven directly to Winterfell.

        Quote  Reply

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