Unexpected Cast Member Arrives in Seville as Season 8 Dragonpit shoot gets going!

The Dragonpit gathered many characters last season; this time, it's a more private affair

The Dragonpit gathered many characters last season; this time it’s a more private affair

Though filming in Itálica was supposed commence last week, all evidence—or rather, the lack of any evidence of anything going on there—pointed to the contrary. Thankfully, that changed today: after weeks of preparations on the amphitheater by the local crew, the Northern Ireland-based crew has finally arrived. And they’re not the only ones!

First of all, GOTlikeLocations‘s photos show not only a warning against using drones to peep on the production (with a prohibitively expensive fine), but also the familiar G&H trucks (the G&H company provides vehicles to the Northern Irish film industry.)



The production crew’s arrival clears up the apparently strange duration for this shoot. The initial reported schedule confused us, as there were no signs that an elaborate sequence of any sort would be shot in or around the amphitheater, even though they were supposed to film there for four weeks. Since then, it’s become increasingly obvious that the original timeline included at least part of the pre-production phase. The exact duration of the shoot is still up in the air, but now we know it won’t be an entire month.

Finally, there is the “unexpected cast member” we teased. In a rather unlikely coincidence, Maisie Williams is in Seville. Yesterday, her boyfriend shared a selfie via Instagram Stories, supposedly just on vacation, and Los Siete Reinos picked it up:

Maisie Williams in Seville

The reflection on her sunglasses is what gave her location away, of all things: it appears to be the Alfonso XIII Hotel in Seville, which is exactly where the cast stayed last year as they filmed in Itálica. She could just be there vacationing with her boyfriend, of course, but it would be one hell of a coincidence for Maisie to show up in Seville, minutes away from Itálica and staying in the same place the cast used last time. I think not!

If this is what it looks like, Arya’s presence in the Dragonpit is a bit of a surprise. I’m sure speculation will be lively below, but personally I’ve got nothing. I can imagine many reasons—or rather, targets—for Arya to infiltrate the Red Keep, but the Dragonpit not so much, unless Cersei and the Mountain have become fond of the Targaryen ruin.

240 responses

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    1. I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.

      Consequently, I am prepared to entertain almost any other explanation for Arya being there (including Maisie simply wanting to use whatever chances she has left to hang out with her cast buddies while they’re still gathered together). If, as some have suggested, one of the remaining scenes to be shot in the Dragonpit is some sort of ceremony – like a wedding or a coronation or an abdication or the signing of a Magna Carta – taking place in the final episode (the Red Keep already being destroyed by wildfire, dragonfire or whatever), then it might make sense for Arya to be an honored guest.

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    2. When can we expect more cast to arrive? Feels like we’ve barely seen any actors spotted this year, unless I’ve just missed all the articles or forgotten.

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    3. I’m loving the thought of Norn Iron G&H vans on tour all over Europe!

      NB. For heathens. Norn Iron = N.Ireland

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    4. Firannion: I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.

      Agreed.

      Firannion:
      I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.

      Consequently, I am prepared to entertain almost any other explanation for Arya being there (including Maisie simply wanting to use whatever chances she has left to hang out with her cast buddies while they’re still gathered together). If, as some have suggested, one of the remaining scenes to be shot in the Dragonpit is some sort of ceremony – like a wedding or a coronation or an abdication or the signing of a Magna Carta – taking place in the final episode (the Red Keep already being destroyed by wildfire, dragonfire or whatever), then it might make sense for Arya to be an honored guest.

      I’d very much like to believe that but… I’m pretty sure if so many cast members were involved, at least some of them would have been sighted by now, just as they were for the season seven shoot.

      BeardedOnion: When can we expect more cast to arrive? Feels like we’ve barely seen any actors spotted this year, unless I’ve just missed all the articles or forgotten.

      You’re not wrong. They’re being careful. In the case of Spain, though, it may simply be that not so many cast members are involved.

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    5. BeardedOnion,

      The reason is that security has gone up a factor of 100 this year. If you’ve been used to normal security over the rest of GOT is has been a bit of a shock!

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    6. BeardedOnion,

      I did read that Emilia is still in America and Kit is in Wales on his stag do (apparently he told some random stranger) ……..so I would take that with a pinch of salt!!!!!

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    7. So if nobody else shows up I guess I’ll just assume that Arya is the only person left alive. She’ll then take on the NK and his AotD all by herself. 😉

      I still like my scenario where she would “tag in” for Sandor and ruin the Cleganebowl for people that want that.

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    8. Luka Nieto,

      Thematically Arya killing Cersei doesn´t make sense. Specially since Cersei wasn´t behind Ned, Robb and Cat deaths. It was the doing of Joffrey, Littlefinger and Tywin. And all of them are gone.

      As for only Maisie in Sevilla currently. Well they´re going to shoot this week and the next. So there is still time for more members to appear and there´s the fact about what kind of scene needs to be filmed at the Dragonpit.

      Also they´ve hired extras. But instead of doing a public casting this year they´ve contacted those who previously worked in past seasons.

      This year security is no joke.

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    9. Good report, Luka. Thank you. If Italica scenes are in episode 5 or 6, probably the Winterfell conflagration is over and casualties mourned. Arya’s always full of surprises, but presumably her target in KL is Cersei and her minions. If the Golden Company razed Winterfell (whodunnit confuses me), the Allies must punish Cersei before she does further damage. If it was the NK and WWs then she’s still an impediment to Westeros survival and must be removed. Or maybe KL itself was already destroyed and the Dragon Pit–like Italica outside the city–is unharmed and thus the only structure in which to hold a large gathering. Or maybe the scene is parlay 2.0. We should know more when other GoT actors turn up in Sevilla, especially Hafthor, Nikolaj or Rory.

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    10. <<I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.<<

      Revenge obsessions aside, Cersei needs to die and Arya is the only with the skills to get close to her without being suspected. There isn't one remaining main/secondary character, besides Qyburn, that Cersei trusts. How is Jaime (or Tyrion or Dany or…) going to get close enough to kill her? I don't want to see Arya kill Cersei using Jaime's face (please no) or just to complete her list, but using Qyburn or Bernadette's face to get close enough to kill Cersei and stop her madness? That would be a good use of Arya's Faceless skills.

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    11. Stark Raven’ Rad,

      How the GC razing WF makes sense with those pics of dothraki and unsullied at the gates of KL? When did they have the time to travel north? Attack the north with Dany´s, the Vale, the North and the wildlings forces already there? That would be dumbest move in military history.

      Makes more sense Cersei last season strategy. Let both forces bleed each other first.

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    12. Gayle:
      <<I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.<<

      Revenge obsessions aside, Cersei needs to die and Arya is the only with the skills to get close to her without being suspected.There isn’t one remaining main/secondary character, besides Qyburn, that Cersei trusts.How is Jaime (or Tyrion or Dany or…) going to get close enough to kill her?I don’t want to see Arya kill Cersei using Jaime’s face (please no) or just to complete her list, but using Qyburn or Bernadette’s face to get close enough to kill Cersei and stop her madness? That would be a good use of Arya’s Faceless skills.

      Jaime getting close isn’t out of the question at all.

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    13. BeardedOnion,

      Thematically there´s no other end possible for Cersei but for Cersei to die at real! Jaimie hands.

      Just as thematically the only fullfiling scenario for Jon´s parents was Rhaegar and Lyanna.

      And just like thematically there was no other possible end for LF but his plots failing him and being sentenced and judged by her apprentince, the girl whose family suffered the most under LF machinations. Badly executed by the writers but that was his outcome.

      Just like there was no better outcome for Ramsay than dying eated by the hounds he used to hunt women and later named after his victims.

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    14. Ëonwë,

      Cersei is on her list for having the butcher boy killed. Who know’s what’s coming, but it’s not unlikely she’s just there in support of Jon.

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    15. Clob,

      F*ck it. Let’s go all out and pile on the tinfoil and call this what it is:

      The Coronation of Queen Arya, First of Her Name. 👸🏻

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    16. Ten Bears,

      All hail king Gendry Baratheon son of Robert Baratheon, lord of the seven kingdoms, king of the andals, the rhoynar (only in the books) and the first men, protector of the realm.

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    17. Meanwhile…it’s looking like my wishful thinking for S8 as wall-to-wall Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies™ might be coming true. 👸🏻😍

      ™ Sorry Talvikorppi

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    18. I’ve been avoiding posts like this but I was too intrigued by the Twitter post to ignore it.

      I think Arya is probably there to try to kill Cersei. I remember arguing a while ago that, considering where Arya is at the end of S7 in her character arc, it only makes sense that she would at least try to do so when Cersei’s betrayal becomes clear. But I don’t think she will actually be the one to kill her. Just because she’s trying to kill Cersei doesn’t mean she will succeed. Or go through with it, perhaps, if her character goes through some changes necessary to permanently put her quest for vengeance behind her. It would actually be more dramatic (imo) if Arya makes that change while in pursuit of one of the names on her list, rather than quietly at Winterfell.

      Personally I would love to see Arya and Sandor travel up there, try to kill Cersei, the plan goes pear-shaped, and somehow they end up in the Dragonpit where Cleganebowl commences. A bloody and tragic Clegane battle may be the dramatic thing that shakes Arya out of her vengeance mindset, especially since that is something she and Sandor have in common. Probably won’t happen that way completely but that makes the most sense to me given Maisie Williams’ appearance in Seville and all of the character stuff that still needs to happen with Arya.

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    19. “Unexpected Cast Member Arrives in Seville as Season 8 Dragonpit Shoot Gets Going.”

      “No one expects No One…until it’s too late.”

      – A WoW commenter [sorry; I forgot who]

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    20. Hodor Targaryen,

      The Hound destroys the Mountain but is fatally injured. This time Arya is faced again with the mercy kill… and she does it. Not out of revenge, not out of spite, not out of hate but out of mercy for a dying man.

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    21. If Arya goes south, makes me think that a great portion of the northern host flees south when they learn that the wall has been breached. Leaving a garrison at Winterfell to slow the AOTD progress gives D&D a real easy chance to kill off some semi-major characters in a “heroic” fashion (Tormund, Beric, Greyworm etc). My guess is Sansa stays behind as the Stark in Winterfell. While Team Jonerys and company uncover Cersei’s plot, Winterfell is attacked and burned and that sets up the final conflict with the AOTD in King’s Landing (Dragonpit and what must be a pretty darn expensive set at Titanic Studios).

      – To be clear, I don’t think this makes a ton of sense based on things like character arcs or logic, but based on what we know (and what S7 was) I don’t think its out of the question that this is the route that is taken.

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    22. Arya killing Cersei is one of the weakest, dullest possible outcomes yet all too possible.
      I’d hate to see this play out like this but they may go for ambiguity here. Have both Jamie and Arya in KL with the former absolutely horrified with Cersei’s actions.
      So that when the latter is killed by someone who looks like Jamie we won’t know for sure whether it was really him or Arya. It’s possible they’ll intentionally play up both scenarios beforehand.
      You know, just cause it would generate heated discussions.

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    23. SP:
      If Arya goes south, makes me think that a great portion of the northernhost flees south when they learn that the wall has been breached. Leaving a garrison at Winterfell to slow the AOTD progress gives D&D a real easy chance to kill off some semi-major characters in a “heroic” fashion (Tormund, Beric, Greyworm etc). My guess is Sansa stays behind as the Stark in Winterfell. While Team Jonerys and company uncover Cersei’s plot, Winterfell is attacked and burned and that sets up the final conflict with the AOTD in King’s Landing (Dragonpit and what must be a pretty darn expensive set at Titanic Studios).

      – To be clear, I don’t think this makes a ton of sense based on things like character arcs or logic, but based on what we know (and what S7 was) I don’t think its out of the question that this is the route that is taken.

      I fully expect Sansa to be involved with the Cersei showdown since she has fuck all to do with the undead plotline and everything to do with Cersei’s.

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    24. I don’t think anyone is going to fight at Winterfell… They’re going to make a fake Winterfell up the road and fill it with dummies. The NK & AotD will show up late there after having to send someone back to get a shitload of dimes for the toll booth…

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    25. SP,

      They finished the shooting of a battle that went for 55 nights. That´s the scope of the masive battle we are going to see in chapter 3. And all the leaked footage points at the Jon&Dany coallition against the Night King.

      The King´s Landing set was built because they´re gonna set it on fire and you couldn´t shot a burning KL in Dubrovnik, Cáceres or Gerona. Also you can´t film battle sequences in those citites. I think that they used a set back in S2 for the Blackwater battle.

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    26. The mystery deepens. It says on L7R that the arena hasn’t been dressed with the canopies from before, only the floor… so perhaps they’ll just film some scenes of the cast members walking through the rubble of KL, including the Dragonpit. Or maybe Maisie is filming scenes in the tunnels at Santiponce (are they using the Royal docks again too?).

      I must say I’d be bummed to see Arya taking out Cersei unless the show pulls it off in a way that is fulfilling and shocking.

      Perhaps she does it because she has no other option, and not for revenge. If Cersei is about to blow KL or is refusing refuge to the Starks with the AOTD approaching then that’s pretty justifiable.

      So either using Jaime’s face if he falls in combat (but would lack the shock factor as we’d obviously see his death on screen), or alternatively by sneaking through the tunnels- she knows the way, as does Varys..

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    27. Kosten,

      The scenario of Arya killing Cersei wearing Jaime´s face while Jaime´s still alive doesn´t work. The faceless men put on dead people faces. Another Melissandre necklace moment no, please.

      Edit: Las atarazanas (royal shipyards) so far aren´t gonna be used. Last year they cut the traffic at that zone and so far nothing…

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    28. BeardedOnion,

      It would be awesome to see her out-politic Cersei. I was thinking of her role as now a “true northerner” whereas in earlier seasons she was infatuated with court and southern chivalry. Personally, I am struggling to find a legit politicking role for her since the show has essentially shrunk to two sides, with 3 monarchs (I guess 4 monarchs if we include Euron, but we haven’t seen him rule anything)

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    29. Let the Arya super ninja warrior princess fantasies commence, lol!

      Seriously, though, I can imagine a role for her in KL, especially if her favourite broth… ehm, cousin, goes there. She could be part of, even the head of his secret service. Her unique skills point that way. MI7 and 007.

      There’s been talk of her wearing Jaime’s face to get close to Cersei and kill her, thus seemingly fulfilling the valonqar prophecy (the show left out that bit of Maggy the Frog’s prophecy, presumably because it would’ve been too spoilery). I have a couple of problems with that.

      Firstly, having Jaime, the real Jaime, finally to be the end of Cersei (and probably himself) is way more potent and tragic. We kinda like Jaime now and hope nice things for him, so having his past come back and bite him in the arse, make him a kinslayer just when he was on the brink of redemption… Aah. Dark, tragic.

      Secondly, Arya wearing Jaime’s face… The facee would have to be dead. If Arya kills Jaime, I’ll hate her forever and ever! OK, let’s say Jaime dies heroically in the real war, in the arms of the woman he loves (Brienne, obv.). Arya hovers nearby to harvest the face. Ugh, that’s pretty ghoulish and gruesome, too, and nothing to endear Arya to me. Maybe if Jaime agrees to give his face to Arya… But why would he?

      I dunno. Maybe his final redemptive act to appease the Starks and all the fanatical Stark fans?

      Anyway, I find it interesting that Maisie is there, she wasn’t on my list of probables, so we could be in for some nice, twisty stuff.

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    30. Jaime killing Cersei would not only make him a kinslayer but also THE QUEENSLAYER.

      Thematically there is no better thing for him.

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    31. Ëonwë,

      Brienne: “The only one that needs protecting is the one that gets in her way.”

      Sandor: “It won’t be me.”

      Sandor (to Gregor): “…You know who’s coming for you. You’ve always known.”
      _____________________

      F*ck Cleganebowl. Arya kills the Mountain confirmed.

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    32. Ëonwë,

      That’s a great point. Definitely will be a massive battle at Winterfell but for some reason I keep thinking of it more in the vein of Hardhome but with more semi-major characters. Could take 55 nights if you have sequences featuring Tormund, Grey Worm, Beric, and general battle chaos. My thought within my wild speculation is that D&D wouldn’t have the time (or desire as some speculate) to fully give each of these characters a unique sendoff, and I can’t seem to buy into the idea that NK goes down with enough time left in the season to unpack what all of that will mean, then go and pick up another full blown war on KL.

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    33. Ëonwë,

      They’ve fired the FM “face mask” gun too often for Arya to use it again to take out Cersei. Besides, if the books! prophecy holds true – and I believe it will – the “little brother” will wrap “his” hands around Cersei’s pale white throat.

      The use of a masculine noun and pronoun eliminates Arya or any other female strangler. (For that matter, the plural “hands” would seem to disqualify a one-handed man, but that’s another story…)

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    34. I lowkey want one scene of Sansa and Arya saying to Cersei ” our Clegane could beat yours up anyday!”

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    35. Ten Bears:
      Meanwhile…it’s looking like my wishful thinking for S8 as wall-to-wall Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies™ might be coming true.👸🏻😍

      ™ Sorry Talvikorppi

      Only now reading through the comments. I’m chuffed you’ve taken on my somewhat exasperated and frustrated throw-away description AND credit me for it. Haha. Thank you. 🙂

      As to the matter at hand, Arya will play an important role, but it’s not the Song of Arya and Fire, she won’t be the most important end game hero. She will be important, though, like Sansa and especially Bran will be. And their cousin.

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    36. talvikorppi,

      “Let the Arya super ninja warrior princess fantasies commence, lol!”

      Oh, they have! 👸🏻And thank you for the tagline.™

      • I think you’re right to debunk the notion that Arya might take Jaime’s face and kill Cersei. I’d be shocked and disappointed if something like that happened. (Technically speaking, Cersei shouldn’t even be on Arya’s list. Arya assumed Cersei was complicit in Ned’s execution, but she wasn’t.)

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    37. Hodor Targaryen: Personally I would love to see Arya and Sandor travel up there, try to kill Cersei, the plan goes pear-shaped, and somehow they end up in the Dragonpit where Cleganebowl commences. A bloody and tragic Clegane battle may be the dramatic thing that shakes Arya out of her vengeance mindset, especially since that is something she and Sandor have in common.

      Not necessarily involving Arya, but there is something about Cleganebowl hype that has always somehow tugged at associations with the climactic scene in Hamlet for me. I find it very easy to picture Cersei as a spectator suddenly dragged from the sidelines into the fray and killed like Gertrude, as almost collateral damage. Maybe it’s the fact that Sandor is a younger brother and therefore an arguable Valonqar candidate.

      We also can’t entirely rule out the possibility that Frankengregor, whom she trusts utterly, will somehow have his zombie programming go haywire and turn on Cersei. Not a younger brother, true; but that detail has been left out of the TV version anyway.

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    38. Gayle:
      <<I’m highly resistant to the scenario of Arya being the one to kill Cersei, presumably wearing somebody else’s face, simply because it seems so regressive for her character arc at this point. Time is running out, and our Wolf Girl needs to be moving beyond her revenge obsession.<<

      Revenge obsessions aside, Cersei needs to die and Arya is the only with the skills to get close to her without being suspected.There isn’t one remaining main/secondary character, besides Qyburn, that Cersei trusts.How is Jaime (or Tyrion or Dany or…) going to get close enough to kill her?I don’t want to see Arya kill Cersei using Jaime’s face (please no) or just to complete her list, but using Qyburn or Bernadette’s face to get close enough to kill Cersei and stop her madness? That would be a good use of Arya’s Faceless skills.

      Frankly, what I think is going to happen is that Arya will kill Cersei using Jaime’s face, possibly in episode 5.
      Arya didn’t spend 2 seasons in Faceless Assassin School for no reason, you know. And Arya last season didn’t give us ANY clue whatsoever that she intends to deviate from her path of revenge, but rather the opposite.

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    39. Firannion,

      “We also can’t entirely rule out the possibility that Frankengregor, whom she trusts utterly, will somehow have his zombie programming go haywire…”
      ——————

      NK is going to hack Frankengregor and take control of him. Piece of cake for Ol’ Blue Eyes.

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    40. Nikolaj would have to be filming KL scenes as well in order for it to be possible for Arya to kill Cersei using Jaime’s face. If we see Maisie, Nikolaj and Lena filming anywhere together other than in sets for the north then it could be possible. I don’t personally subscribe to the theory, but it’s not out of the realm of possibility.

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    41. George: Frankly, what I think is going to happen is that Arya will kill Cersei using Jaime’s face, possibly in episode 5.
      Arya didn’t spend 2 seasons in Faceless Assassin School for no reason, you know. And Arya last season didn’t give us ANY clue whatsoever that she intends to deviate from her path of revenge, but rather the opposite.

      __________
      Actually, she did. In S7e2, she was at a figurative and literal Crossroads: head south and continue on her vengeance trail, or head north and reconnect with her family. After learning from Hot Pie that Jon had ousted the Boltons and retaken WF, she was mounted on her horse facing south; she looked south. then looked north, turned north and rode north. She later told Nymeria: “I’m heading north, girl. Back to Winterfell. I’m finally going home.”

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    42. Ten Bears: __________
      Actually, she did. In S7e2, she was at a figurative and literal Crossroads: head south and continue on her vengeance trail, or head north and reconnect with her family. After learning from Hot Pie that Jon had ousted the Boltons and retaken WF, she was mounted on her horse facing south; she looked south. then looked north, turned north and rode north. She later told Nymeria: “I’m heading north, girl. Back to Winterfell. I’m finally going home.”

      She hasn’t given up on vengeance completely yet though, it’s still a huge part of her character and won’t be concluded until this last season.

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    43. Firannion,

      It’s funny, I was just thinking recently that maybe Gregor would kill Qyburn for some reason, as kind of an ironic end for that character. I feel like Gregor will probably do something big, he’s mostly just been teased since his fight with Oberyn. I can definitely see him ultimately frustrating Cersei’s plans somehow, though I subscribe to the more conventional theory that Jaime will kill Cersei.

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    44. George: Frankly, what I think is going to happen is that Arya will kill Cersei using Jaime’s face, possibly in episode 5.
      Arya didn’t spend 2 seasons in Faceless Assassin School for no reason, you know. And Arya last season didn’t give us ANY clue whatsoever that she intends to deviate from her path of revenge, but rather the opposite.

      Hmm. I thought Arya turning away from KL (Cersei, revenge) towards home and family kinda showed her reassessing her priorities. I hope she’s over her obsession for revenge. In GRRM’s world, revenge isn’t a good thing.

      Her slashing Littlefinger’s throat wasn’t about her revenge – she never knew how badly he screwed her family. She was “swinging the sword” for Sansa, who knew most of how LF screwed their family and her. It was justice for his crimes and Sansa’s revenge, if anything. The sisters co-operated on it, yay!

      And, please no to Arya killing Jaime for his face! Even harvesting his face after a heroic death in the arms of Brienne. Thematically it’s far better if the real Jaime kills Cersei. And then dies in the arms of the woman he loves (Brienne).

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    45. Hodor Targaryen,

      I do too, pretty much. Was just trying to contradict a claim that someone made earlier to the effect that Arya is the only one who could get within assassination range of Cersei.

      Mostly, I just want the Queen of Smirks to have the situation blow up in her face just when she thinks that she has everything under her control.

      As for Qyburn, being killed by Gregor’s severed hand would be a rather neat (if silly) ending, considering how longingly he gazed at the wight hand last time we saw him at the Dragonpit.

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    46. talvikorppi: And then dies in the arms of the woman he loves (Brienne).

      Sorry to quote myself, but Jaime practically jinxed this on himself in S5 when adventuring in Dorne with Bronn.

      The sellsword Bronn wants to die old in a good castle with sons fighting over the rich inheritance, the romantic Jaime wants to die in the arms of the woman he loves.

      Bronn astutely asks if she wants the same thing, never mentioning any names. It was left rather open-ended, but in S6 Bronn asks poor Pod if he thinks they (Jaime and Brienne) are fucking while they had their wonderfully stilted, loaded with forbidden feelings, full on duty and honour parley. But Bronn would’ve had to see something there to make his crude jokes to Pod.

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    47. Calling it now: Arya kills Viserion in the Dragonpit!!

      But in seriousness, I’ll add my voice to those who don’t want to see Arya killing Cersei, especially with Jamie’s face. Dramatically I don’t think it packs anywhere near the kind of punch you would want out of Cersei’s death. It makes sense that Arya would have Cersei on her list, but I just don’t see it happening (and really hope it doesn’t).

      Very intriguing to see that Arya will be present in the Dragonpit though. I’m honestly at a bit of a loss to come up with a plausible scenario at this point, which is pretty cool.

      Ëonwë:
      Hodor Targaryen,
      The Hound destroys the Mountain but is fatally injured. This time Arya is faced again with the mercy kill… and she does it. Not out of revenge, not out of spite, not out of hate but out of mercy for a dying man.

      This is a theory I subscribe to, and could be the thing that sets her off her path of killing/violence/revenge. And the tears will flow..

        Quote  Reply

    48. Ten Bears,
      Was there ever any doubt? 🙂 I mean, after all the training and buildup, it would be criminal for her not to play a big part in all of this. And I’m SO excited!

        Quote  Reply

    49. Helinsky:
      Ëonwë,

      Cersei is on her list for having the butcher boy killed. Who know’s what’s coming, but it’s not unlikely she’s just there in support of Jon.

      Is that so? I thought Joffrey lied and said he was attacked by the butcher’s boy and that’s why Sandor rode him down. I also thought Arya (mistakenly) assumed Cersei was responsible for Ned’s execution. That too was all on Joffrey.
      Am I wrong?

        Quote  Reply

    50. Enharmony1625:
      Ten Bears,
      Was there ever any doubt? 🙂 I mean, after all the training and buildup, it would be criminal for her not to play a big part in all of this. And I’m SO excited!

      Well, I have to admit there was some doubt. The S5-S7 Stark storyline was mostly the Jon & Sansa Show. Arya’s story kind of took a back seat. Maybe that was because she was by herself in Braavos sweeping floors for much of that time… and by the time she returned home, Jon was “1,000 miles away” and DouchebagFinger was lurking around WF implementing whatever dumb “plan” he had concocted. (I still don’t know what it was.)

      So I’m excited that it appears Arya will have a prominent role in S8 like she did back in S3 and S4.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Ten Bears,
      Fair enough. Although Arya was prominent in S6; she was in more episodes than Sansa was (8 vs. 7), and had an episode named after her. Season 5 was the weakest for her character though.

      The way I see it, it makes even more sense that she play a prominent role in S8 given the long personal journey she’s been on. I mean, what would be the point of all that if, once she reintegrated back into the main story, she didn’t have much to do? Of course, that could very well be my bias talking.. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    52. I don’t think Arya would be wearing Jamie’s face, because (if) when Jaime dies, we’re going to see it. It would be (pun intended) a dead giveaway to see Jaime the following episode. They already played that hand when we saw Walder Frey in 7.1. They couldn’t do it again.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Well, I wouldn’t DISlike it if Arya killed Cersei with Jaime’s face after he died in Brienne’s arms. I mean, Cersei’s gotta go, and I do love watching my girl Arya wipe out the wicked. Her kills are charitable acts (so far, anyway.) Still, it’s been proposed so many times already that it now seems too obvious…and it would be even more satisfying for her killer to be the actual Jaime. Arya can certainly try, or intend to try, though.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Ten Bears:
      Ëonwë,

      “They’ve fired the FM “face mask” gun too often for Arya to use it again to take out Cersei. Besides, if the books! prophecy holds true – and I believe it will –the “little brother” will wrap “his” hands around Cersei’s pale white throat.

      The use of a masculine noun and pronoun eliminates Arya or any other female strangler. (For that matter, the plural “hands” would seem to disqualify a one-handed man, but that’s another story…)”

      ______________________
      For your collective consideration and commentary:

      The following is part of a longer, tinfoil-tinged appraisal of each of the Valonqar candidates.

      Throwaway Scene – or Foreshadowing?
      After S7 concluded, I didn’t know what to make of LF’s encounter with Jon in the crypts in S7e2 (excerpted below). It didn’t seem to serve any purpose. LF was behaving like an idiot and saying stupid things that wouldn’t endear him to Jon or further any “plan.” (And asking Jon to “give Tyrion my best when you see him” made little sense: Tyrion’s likely response would be “That weasel who tried to frame me for trying to kill Bran is in Winterfell? WTF?”)

      Everything LF said only angered Jon and made him get in LF’s face and start choking him when LF declared his “love” for Sansa. However, since Jon left WF right after that, and Arya and Sansa terminated LF in S7e7 while Jon was still away on his mission to Dragonstone, I initially dismissed that whole scene as unnecessary “filler” that lacked any payoff. We already knew LF was a jerk.
      Jon rode off to White Harbor to sail to Dragonstone, and nothing came of his encounter with LF. Or so it seemed.

      ——————————
      S7e2 (Jon in WF crypts in front of Ned’s tomb when LF shows up uninvited and starts babbling)

      LF: “I delivered his bones myself. Presented them to Lady Catelyn as a gesture of goodwill from Tyrion Lannister. Seems like a lifetime ago. Do give Lord Tyrion my best when you see him. I was sorry when he [Ned] died. Your father and I had our differences, but he loved Cat very much. So did I. She wasn’t fond of you, was she? Well, it appears she vastly underestimated you. Your father and brothers are gone, yet here you stand, King in the North. Last best hope against the coming storm.”
      Jon: “You don’t belong down here.”
      LF: “Forgive me. We haven’t ever talked properly. I wanted to remedy that.”
      Jon: “I have nothing to say to you.”
      LF: “Not even “thank you”? If it weren’t for me, you’d have been slaughtered on that battlefield.
      You have many enemies, my king, but I swear to you, I’m not one of them. I love Sansa, as I loved her mother.”
      (Jon shoves LF against the wall and starts choking him)
      Jon: “Touch my sister, and I’ll kill you myself.”
      ——————————

      Now, however, I suspect this scene had nothing to do with LF at all, and everything to do with Jon: Perceiving a threat to one of his sisters could incite him to go ballistic and strangle someone. (And it’s not as if he were the model of self-restraint when he was wailing on Ramsay’s bloodied face.)

      If Cersei tries to hurt “that murdering whore Sansa” (Cersei S7e1) or “that little animal” Arya (Cersei, S2e1), wouldn’t Aegon Targaryen aka “the little brother”, fly into a rage and choke her to death?

      Any thoughts?

        Quote  Reply

    55. Luka Nieto,

      Holy cow, Luka! I just re-read your article and realized you deduced Maisie Williams was in Italica from the reflection of the hotel in her sunglasses!!! That’s some amazing sleuthing!

        Quote  Reply

    56. Ten Bears:

      Now, however, I suspect this scene had nothing to do with LF at all, and everything to do with Jon: Perceiving a threat to one of his sisters could incite him to go ballistic and strangle someone. (And it’s not as if he were the model of self-restraint when he was wailing on Ramsay’s bloodied face.)

      If Cersei tries to hurt “that murdering whore Sansa” (Cersei S7e1) or “that little animal” Arya (Cersei, S2e1), wouldn’t Aegon Targaryen aka “the little brother”, fly into a rage and choke her to death?

      Any thoughts?

      I’m not sure that the show can afford another ‘Jon emotionally loses his shit and goes off on X or does Y’ without thinking of the consequences. He’s already seen by some as not the brightest of leaders when it comes to reading a situation (ex. Rickon), although I think it certainly makes him more relatable.

      Jon and Ygritte make googly eyes at each other during the Castle Black battle, she gets Olly’d. Jon sits there holding her dramatically and probably should have gotten a few arrows and axes through him during that time.

      Jon goes futilely flying off towards He Who Cannot Zig Nor Zag, putting himself dead centre of range for the Boltons. Rain of arrows, again, and again he dodges them all.

      Jon somehow holds off Ramsay’s arrows at point-blank range (wtf with the arrows again – I believe being shot by Ygritte must have given him some weird inoculation to arrows), pummeling commences, only stops when he sees Sansa’s thousand-yard gaze.

      Jon starts marching in a high dudgeon STRAIGHT TOWARDS the Night King after Viserion is killed, because that is definitely gonna work. Fortunately Drogon is also inoculated against arrows/spears after the Bronn Identity incident, despite being about 100 times closer than Viserion and not moving.

      A lot of these were criticized pretty heavily, and resulted from the death or threat to a loved one taking precedence over the bigger picture or the bigger population. And I don’t blame him because I would be the same way, but I’d also be a shit leader. So for him to go off yet again due to a threat or injury to his dear sisters…well, it would be VERY in character, but what would he possibly be risking that is much bigger this time? I just don’t know.

      I have no idea what my point was supposed to be.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Arya as valonqar is starting to make more and more sense.

      She wears the face of someone Cersei wants to speak with to a parlay. I see some comments above on how Arya is supposed to be turning away from revenge (and actually somewhat agree). But just because she kills Cersei doesn’t mean she is doing it for revenge or for her old reasons. There are plenty of reasons why serving her family as basically the Stark’s “King’s Justice” would lead her to Cersei, bringing justice to her old nemesis. Is there really any OTHER character who is more in need of facing justice? And didn’t Arya’s killing of Littlefinger clarify what her family role would be?

        Quote  Reply

    58. Shelle,

      I am coming more and more to the conclusion it might be Tyrion’s face Arya wears. Varys is Tyrion’s weakness. Trusting Varys too much I think might lead him into a betrayal of Jon, then brought to justice by Arya.

      Jamie’s role in Cersei’s death need not be direct murder to have poetic symmetry.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Ten Bears,

      I’ve always hated the idea of Cleganebowl because, to borrow someone else’s word, I think of it as “regressive” for Sandor’s character. And I don’t think “You’ve always known [who’s coming for you]” to necessarily mean Sandor himself; after all, he named his horse Stranger, and Death can take any form. Including that of a young woman with a strong sense of justice and basic arithmetic skills. I’ve always thought it would make sense for Arya to take out the Mountain, in exchange for Sandor saving her life at the Twins. A life for a life, and one that strikes a name off *both* their lists.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Wolfish:
      Ten Bears,

      I’ve always hated the idea of Cleganebowl because, to borrow someone else’s word, I think of it as “regressive” for Sandor’scharacter. And I don’t think “You’ve always known [who’s coming for you]” to necessarily mean Sandor himself; after all, he named his horse Stranger, and Death can take any form. Including that of a young woman with a strong sense of justice and basic arithmetic skills. I’ve always thought it would make sense for Arya to take out the Mountain, in exchange for Sandor saving her life at the Twins. A life for a life, and one that strikes a name off *both* their lists.

      Well I think Sandor will kill Gregor, but not in a challenge-type “bowl”.

      Sandor has only EVER fought his brother in the story to defend someone else. At the tourney he stepped in to stop the Mountain from killing Loras. So Sandor IMO will finally kill his brother in defense of someone and the most likely candidate is Sansa, though also possibly Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Wolfish,

      I just want Arya to be Arya in S8. Not “wearing” someone else’s face, be it Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa, NK, or anyone else. The face-peeling trick has been used three times already. I don’t want to watch every scene thinking any character at any time could really be Arya wearing a face and impersonating him or her.
      I’d rather see Arya using her real superpower: stinging insults.

        Quote  Reply

    62. awol,

      There’s one I never would’ve considered. But I suppose almost anything can happen; perhaps everything that does will have been thought of by some fans, but I’m sure it won’t be simply a series of events that most viewers expect…
      I have trusted Varys since Season 1 (& like to think that I, like Tyrion, am an excellent judge of character. 😉

      As for Cleganebowl, well, I’ll be happy to see Sandor (and/or anyone else who’d like to give it a shot) finally get rid of him.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Shelle:
      awol,

      There’s one I never would’ve considered. But I suppose almost anything can happen; perhaps everything that does will have been thought of by some fans, but I’m sure it won’t be simply a series of events that most viewers expect…
      I have trusted Varys since Season 1 (& like to think that I, like Tyrion, am an excellent judge of character. 😉

      As for Cleganebowl, well, I’ll be happy to see Sandor (and/or anyone else who’d like to give it a shot) finally get rid of him.

      I think the way things will go down with Varys has to do with his older secrets from his actions leading to Robert’s rebellion. In particular it may be that the whole war and all subsequent events happened because Varys twisted the story of Lyanna and Rhaegar. I mean, is it really possible that NOONE knew they were married? So Dany finds out the real history via Bran and Varys’s role in it and gets mighty mad maybe, which leads to some interesting dynamics in Targ camp.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Hodor Targaryen,

      In my (likely demented) conversations with myself, I keep coming back to Qyburn. Who is he? Where did he come from? Why is he so devoted to Cersei? What, if anything, might shift his loyalties? It’s always bothered me, far more than not knowing Bronn’s backstory. He’s the cipher who disturbs me the most, and I’ll be seriously peeved if we never get a proper explanation.

        Quote  Reply

    65. awol,

      I could live with that. I could certainly see Sandor defending a loved one (he has a few, whether or not he admits it), especially from the Mountain. And that would spare him the sin of knslaying in the form of pure revenge, which I *do* think his character has moved past.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Wolfish:
      Hodor Targaryen,

      In my (likely demented) conversations with myself, I keep coming back to Qyburn. Who is he? Where did he come from? Why is he so devoted to Cersei? What, if anything, might shift his loyalties? It’s always bothered me, far more than not knowing Bronn’s backstory. He’s the cipher who disturbs me the most, and I’ll be seriously peeved if we never get a proper explanation.

      Well, we do know from the books that Qyburn got expelled from the Citadel for having too great a fondness for vivisection and for dabbling in what in the Potterverse would be called the Dark Arts (all in the name of scientific inquiry, of course). IIRC, there is some suggestion that he was mentored by, or at least an admirer of, Marwyn the Mage, who shared Qyburn’s contempt for academic protocols to some degree. Marwyn is one of the book characters I most regret seeing dropped by the show, and I’m much looking forward to learning more about his pro-magic agenda. Is Qyburn (like Quaithe, most likely) one of Marwyn’s agents? Or just a loose cannon? I rather doubt that the TV version will be where we find satisfactory answers to such questions.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Ten Bears: __________
      Actually, she did. In S7e2, she was at a figurative and literal Crossroads: head south and continue on her vengeance trail, or head north and reconnect with her family. After learning from Hot Pie that Jon had ousted the Boltons and retaken WF, she was mounted on her horse facing south; she looked south. then looked north, turned north and rode north. She later told Nymeria: “I’m heading north, girl. Back to Winterfell. I’m finally going home.”

      Well, yea, BUT she threatened to kill Sansa, cut Littlefinger’s throat with Bran’s dagger, and Bran reminded the viewer that “Cersei is in her list of names” (Bran to
      Sansa, talking about Arya).

      And there’s the Melisandre speech to Arya in season 2 about “There’s a darkness in you” and her closing “green eyes” (Cersei’s?)

        Quote  Reply

    68. awol,

      Hmm…I guess it could be a possibility. I’m certainly not looking forward to his death, but it has been foretold, so I don’t think I can hope for him being an ultimate survivor (I got the feeling, though, that his & Melisandre’s would somehow be connected, since they had that little chat in “The Queen’s Justice,” & the show was reminding us of the similarities/connections between them.)

        Quote  Reply

    69. Qyburn is the Necromancer Westeros needs!

      I expect, given his past experiments and his interest in the wight’s hand, he will come up with some necromatic formula or such. They showed us his interest in that dead hand for a reason.

      As for who kills Cersei, maybe the ‘twist’ is she was right all along and Tyrion kills her. I don’t believe that. I think she will die blowing up KL.

        Quote  Reply

    70. But why is everybody so convinced no other actors are in Seville? We only know about Masie because of this Instagram “mistake”. Otherwise we wouldn’t have known about her presence at all either!

        Quote  Reply

    71. Jamie and Arya (maybe also Sandor or Bron) head to KL needing to desperately get things sorted quickly and take the castle without too much bloodshed. Arya is wearing a different face as they head to talk to Cersei and we presume she’s gonna make the kill before the Royalslayer lands a 3-pointer and pushes her out of a window Bran-style. Fill circle indeed.

      Aria takes off face for a quick “WTF!” glance over at Jamie before Kingsguarders come in for some water dancing. Syrio of the House Forel is avenged.

      KL falls quickly and some satisfying full-circleness provided. What do y’all think?

      Plus, what happens to Euron? Surely he’s killed in a sea battle rather than at WF or KL? I hope he doesn’t die because he tries to punch Theon in the cocklessness, that one is getting old.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Luka Nieto,

      what if jamie dies (not necceserily killed by Arya) but she takes his face and then goes to Cersei pretending to be her brother and kills her. The prophecy would be fulfilled, that Cersei gets killed by her brother and it would explain Maisie being there.. and it would be a shocking twist if we didnt know that Jamie ist dead beforehand

        Quote  Reply

    73. Pigeon:
      Emilia was at the Met Gala and for once I have no idea what my opinion is.

      http://cdn01.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/emilia-met/emilia-clarke-met-gala-2018-02.jpg

      I actually think she looks terrific, especially given that the theme of the evening was “Heavenly Bodies: Fashion and the Catholic Imagination”. It resulted in some *ahem* interesting attire by the attendees. Look up Sarah Jessica Parker’s outfit, for example!

      Still not sure what to make of Maisie in Spain, I’m still mulling over various possible Arya in KL plot lines. There are a bunch of different things it could be… even something as relatively undramatic as the remaining Winterfell crew fleeing to the south for protection. I’m interested to see who else, if anyone, turns up in that area in the next few days/week.

        Quote  Reply

    74. If Arya is somehow involved in Cersei’s demise then I agree with you: Sansa will be present or at least involved.

      The Stark sisters seem to be a package deal and symbolise the reunification of House Stark… it makes sense that they’ll work together to bring Cersei down. Cersei was responsible for much of Sansa’s suffering: imprisonment, Ilyin Payne, marriage to the imp, enabling Joffrey, not to mention her fate at the hands of LF/Ramsay after she fled KL. She was even responsible for fracturing the sisters relationship in S1. Thematically, it does kind of fit.

      BeardedOnion: I fully expect Sansa to be involved with the Cersei showdown since she has fuck all to do with the undead plotline and everything to do with Cersei’s.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Ëonwë,

      “I should be calling you ‘Your Grace’.”

      “Do not call me ‘Your Grace’!”

      “As Your Grace commands….
      Well that was ungracious.”

        Quote  Reply

    76. I know it sounds strange but: Clegane Bow! I think that in the end Cercei will be defeated and demand a trial by combat :O Then we will have The Mountain vs The Hound! I think the Hound’s finally killing his brother and Cercei sentenced do death…The we may have Arya Killing her. The combat, in my theory, will take place in DragonPit.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Ten Bears: Holy cow, Luka! I just re-read your article and realized you deduced Maisie Williams was in Italica from the reflection of the hotel in her sunglasses!!! That’s some amazing sleuthing!

      Los Siete Reinos did, I didn’t. I was as impressed as you!

      Stoneheart,

      But not in Seville or anywhere nearby.

      Caro,

      I don’t think that fits the prophecy at all, but to be honest I don’t care about prophecies. That’s not why people want Jaime to kill her. It fits thematically. Arya killing her could, maybe, in some way, if done really well, but I can’t imagine it being half as fitting.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Pigeon:
      Emilia was at the Met Gala and for once I have no idea what my opinion is.

      She looks like the queen from a fancy deck of cards.

        Quote  Reply

    79. ABlueEyedGiantNamedMacumber:
      Jamie and Arya (maybe also Sandor or Bron) head to KL needing to desperately get things sorted quickly and take the castle without too much bloodshed. Arya is wearing a different face as they head to talk to Cersei and we presume she’s gonna make the kill before the Royalslayer lands a 3-pointer and pushes her out of a window Bran-style. Fill circle indeed.

      Aria takes off face for a quick “WTF!” glance over at Jamie before Kingsguarders come in for some water dancing. Syrio of the House Forel is avenged.

      KL falls quickly and some satisfying full-circleness provided. What do y’all think?

      I like the covert-ops idea with Arya being a crucial part of that. It’s possible that if Cersei’s armies are largely defeated, she holes herself up in the Red Keep and it will require a small, skilled team to infiltrate and put an end to her madness. That would be some interesting symmetry for Jamie to push Cersei out of a window, but I think the act of him slowly choking her allows for more drama between them.

      As for Syrio, he was magnificently avenged back in 5×10.

      ABlueEyedGiantNamedMacumber:
      Plus, what happens to Euron? Surely he’s killed in a sea battle rather than at WF or KL? I hope he doesn’t die because he tries to punch Theon in the cocklessness, that one is getting old.

      I can see Euron getting axed sooner rather than later in the season. Perhaps mid-season or so? Episode 5 at the latest is my guess. Although I don’t really have a good prediction of where/how he’ll die. It would be cool for it to be on the sea or on Pyke at the hands of Theon and/or Yara.

      And yeah, that knee-in-the-cock bit in 7×07 was a bit much. Especially since he tried no less than 4 times! I mean, hasn’t he ever heard the saying “the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results”? In the commentary track for that episode, they actually discussed this — originally it was going to be 3 times, but Dan liked the rhythm of the 1-2, 1-2 hit. Ok..

        Quote  Reply

    80. Ëonwë,

      To be honest I never understood what was dumb about a zombie polar bear.

      We saw zombie horses in season 2. Yet for some reason we draw the line at a zombie bear?

        Quote  Reply

    81. House Monty,
      I didn’t think it was dumb at all. It’s book canon that the WW have and are able to animate animals and control them. Viewers-only may not have known about that until then while just accepting the horses without thought. It does seem like some people saw the bear as money spent that kept Ghost offscreen.

        Quote  Reply

    82. House Monty,

      Because they´re either killing or cutting the direwolves out of the series due to “how difficult is to make them” ignoring the importance of the direwolves and the links between them and the Stark kids. And yet they spent the last seasons pestering the VFX team with making the polar bear and when they asked D&D why spent “money and time” on something that the scripts didn´t justify they told the team “we think it looks cool”.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Ëonwë: ignoring the importance of the direwolves and the links between them and the Stark kids

      That is still my only real disappointment with the series. If their warging and the direwolves don’t end up being a major element in the remainder of George’s story (eventually) then it may lessen, but I think they will be. It’s not a crippling disappointment for me as I don’t dwell on it or bring it up all of the time, but when the topic comes up and I think about it… There’s nothing I can do about it so I guess I just have to be glad they used them earlier as much as they did.

        Quote  Reply

    84. I’m seeing whispers of info on some other cast members possibly starting to move around. Maybe over the next few days we’ll have some new confirmed sightings around Seville. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    85. Ëonwë:
      House Monty,

      Because they´re either killing or cutting the direwolves out of the series due to “how difficult is to make them” ignoring the importance of the direwolves and the links between them and the Stark kids. And yet they spent the last seasons pestering the VFX team with making the polar bear and when they asked D&D why spent “money and time” on something that the scripts didn´t justify they told the team “we think it looks cool”.

      That sounds like the type of thing 99% of people who watch the show would not even think about.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Enharmony1625: The Waif: “Who are you?”
      Arya: “… No one.”
      *whack*
      Arya: “C*nt!”

      —————–
      “Who are you?”

      “You’re about to find out.”

      (And she eventually did.)

        Quote  Reply

    87. Enharmony1625,

      Here are some of my favorite zingers (from memory; might not be verbatim):

      Gendry: “You think I’m as stupid as the rest of them?”
      Arya: “Stupider.”
      Gendry: “You know, you shouldn’t insult people that are bigger than you.”
      Arya: “Then I wouldn’t get to insult anyone.”

      Arya: “When am I going to get a horse of my own?”
      Sandor: “Little lady wants a pony.”
      Arya: “Little lady wants away from your stench.”
      ****
      Arya: “You’re not very smart, are you.

      Sandor: “…Poison, poison’s a woman’s weapon. Real men kill with steel.”
      Arya: “That’s just your stupid pride talking. That’s why you’ll never be a great killer.”
      [Fast forward three seasons to Arya taking out House Frey with “a woman’s weapon.”]

      Arya (to Jaqen): “A man can go kill himself.”

        Quote  Reply

    88. Wolfish:
      Hodor Targaryen,

      In my (likely demented) conversations with myself, I keep coming back to Qyburn. Who is he? Where did he come from? Why is he so devoted to Cersei? What, if anything, might shift his loyalties? It’s always bothered me, far more than not knowing Bronn’s backstory. He’s the cipher who disturbs me the most, and I’ll be seriously peeved if we never get a proper explanation.

      so nice to see both of them mentioned in one comment. when going full tinfoil now, i hope to remember some things correctly.

      Qyburn joined the show as a victim of The Mountain’s raids in the Riverlands, right? and who gave the order? of course, Grumpy Lannister, father to Cersei and the boys. after a short stay at Hotel Bolton, Qyburn signs as Jamie’s personal Master of the Lost Hand. and there he is, at the court of those who nearly got him killed.

      one trial by combat later, he has the spare parts of the guy who executed the slaughter on his table, a fully equipped workspace and the royal permission to do as he thinks is necessary.

      Mountain: “cough! cough!”
      Qyburn: “quiet, my friend!”

      yes: he even has a friend now. isn’t that nice? as Robb Stark (it was him, right?) said when finding Qyburn alive among the victims of Gregor: “you’ve had luck.”

      by the time he is repairing The Mountain for Cersei, he should already know she shouldn’t be trusted. will he give her full control of a monster that is even stronger and dumber now?

      Qyburn: “this is Ser Robert Strong. (i thought you might like the name Robert). he’s promised not to open his dumb mouth until Your Grace’s enemies are destroyed, (including yourself, as your dumbness really is your worst enemy.)”
      finally a Robert who is not drunk and holds her in a really tender and protective manner… that’s not devotion. it’s humiliation. and Cersei took it as a relief after all she had been through right before. all hail Qyburn, the Grandmaester of Timing!

      minus one sept, one king and one Grandmaester, and he is Hand of the Queen, Grandmaester and Master of Whisperers. a rare concentration of power: he controls her health, her protection and her level of information. she’s totally dependent.

      he on the other side has no reason to stay loyal once the shit hits the fan. this other queen there has brought things to KL a curious mind like his cannot resist: dragons and undead people – magic. this, some probable idea of kicking Lannister butts for the horrors in the Riverlands, and maybe even the book in his possession that Samwell couldn’t find in the Citadel “Maester Whatever’s practical guide to ending Long Nights and getting rid of zombies” make Qyburn the perfect candidate for a side switch.

      the other guy there, Bronn. this has lots of tinfoil, and i’m glad for any update of debunkings of the theories i refer to.

      Tywin: “who are your new friends there?”
      Tyrion: “these folks love to feed balls to their goats. and this here is Bronn of house…”
      Bronn: “you won’t know them.”

      my favorite roll of “granted for truth because it’s from the internet” says Bronn might be a lost or missing son of House Castamere. this back in my mind made me enjoy the end of the loot train battle ten times more. son of a drowned house saves sun of the responsible person from drowning – and then explains to him that he has the only right to kill him.

      though his chances of having a peaceful time in KL have shrinked to a minimum after Jamie’s departure, i’d love him to find a way to still lurk around there. because

      Cersei: “we have enemies to the east. we have enemies to the west. we have enemies in the north. we have enemies in the south.”
      Nameless Chicken: “your inner circle is full of enemies, you dumb c*nt!”
      Cersei: “so what? no Valonquar, no trouble.”
      Frankenmountain (smears her head across some wall): “Gregor. Gregor. Gregor.”
      Bronn: “can i have this bloody castle now?”

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    89. Undead Elephant:
      Am I the only one that wants Cersei to get eaten by a dragon?

      That would work… or fried by one.
      Her Smugness just needs to go in one fashion or another. I really would like her to realize that she’s not so smart just before it happens though. I do kinda like the idea of her becoming the Night Queen against her will and then killed.

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    90. death by chickenfire,

      I think Qyburn’s reason for sticking with Cersei is pretty obvious actually. He wants to do his thing, and his thing is torture for the sake of learning about life and death, learning about reannimation etc….that is not the kind of stuff any other candidate for the throne puts up with. Cersei’s patronage lets him be himself, anyone else would force him to secrecy and probably eventually execution.

      The comment that he was lucky to survive the massacre at Harrenhal was IMO intended as a big glaring hint that it was not luck at all. He was never a victim, just someone who implanted himself among the victims and played dead as the situation changed there. So pretty easy to transition to calling Robert Strong friend; Gregor already was one.

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    91. Ten Bears:
      Clob,

      Just give me one scene of Sandor encountering wight chickens and I’ll be happy.

      HA! I do not believe I’ve thought about wight chickens before.

      The other wight meat. 🙂

      Hot Pie: “The secret to cooking it is ya gotta set it on fire first, or stab it with your dragonglass ginsu knife.”
      Pod: “Oh, set it on fire first you say?”

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    92. And now we know how the last dragons are gonna die. Food poisoning.

      Book Qyburn was a disgraced maester expelled from the citadel for his love of zombie making. I can´t remember rigth now if show Qyburn was also an expelled maester.

      They´re gonna shoot in Italica this week and the next one. So there is plenty of time for other cast members to come.

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    93. Ëonwë: I can´t remember rigth now if show Qyburn was also an expelled maester.

      He was. GM Pycelle complained about him being there because of his history of ‘experiments.’ To me it sounds like Qyburn is essentially like doctors in our history that did extreme things to advance knowledge of the body.

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    94. I know Tyrion is a favorite character of many. I really wonder what role the “non-fighter” types like he, Varys and Sansa will have in the final season?

      I kind of hope Tyrion kills Cersei. She has pissed on him a lot over the series.

      Hope Arya is there to kill the Mountain for killing The Hound.

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    95. Ëonwë,

      They´re gonna shoot in Italica this week and the next one. So there is plenty of time for other cast members to come.

      I just saw something about Kit, Gwen and Sophie traveling, presumably to Seville? It’s not clear or confirmed.

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    96. Theons Richard: Hope Arya is there to kill the Mountain for killing The Hound.

      Wait… You think (or want) the Mountain will kill Sandor? With his story, his miserable view of life caused by his brother I can’t see how that would happen IF they fight each other.

      (and of course, I still would like to see Sandor step aside for Arya to fight in his place if that situation ever presented itself. “You know who is coming for you, brother,” being Death with her hands. Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess is coming and Death is coming with her.)

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    97. Clob,

      Can´t see Arya killing one of the top five fighters in the series. And frankengregor might be indifferent to injuries and hits.

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    98. Stark RAven’ Rad:
      Ëonwë,

      They´re gonna shoot in Italica this week and the next one. So there is plenty of time for other cast members to come.

      I just saw something about Kit, Gwen and Sophie traveling, presumably to Seville?It’s not clear or confirmed.

      … but it could also have been for Belfast so we have to wait and see…

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    99. Ëonwë:
      Clob,

      Can´t see Arya killing one of the top five fighters in the series. And frankengregor might be indifferent to injuries and hits.

      I don’t think it’s suppose to be out of the question. For us to say that is our (reasonable) rejection of the idea. Those she faces would not see her as a threat either. Brienne has been shown to be one of the best fighters in the series yet they had Arya go toe-to-toe with her. One has to wonder why they would show her fighting/sparring with Brienne if not to convey that she can fight large and skilled people… Hmmm….

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    100. Ëonwë:
      Clob,

      Can´t see Arya killing one of the top five fighters in the series. And frankengregor might be indifferent to injuries and hits.

      While The Mountain is currently stuck in the sunken place thanks to Qyburn, I would agree that he might not be affected by injuries and hits, but it can’t hurt to try either. I would think that chopping his head off would probably do the trick…probably.

      Arya has battled with Brienne to a draw and bested the Waif, who was obviously a prolific fighter, so I think Arya could take out just about anyone with the right moves and a little bit of luck.

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    101. Mr Derp,

      Especially if she has the element of darkness, which hopefully some of these night shoots that she’s been involved with will show. She did train while being blind for a reason, and I think that’ll come back into play again.

      Also, it seems the Mountain’s armor has some weak points in his helm… I could see Arya sticking him with the pointy end right through his bloody eyes and making him blind. Might make for more of a contest for anybody to kill him after that.

      I could also see a tag-team situation of the Hound and Brienne, though. And maybe Arya as well.

      But I agree, I doubt normal wounds will affect the Mountain very much (unless it’s the eyes). They might very well have to cut his head right off.

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    102. Mr Derp,

      Chopping a head is not easy. Specially with needle, a fencing sword or with a dagger. But they turned Oberyn into Darth Maul, so yes, I shouldn´t be dismissing the idea when last season they turned Arya into Basil Rathbone.

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    103. Clob,

      * additional *
      In my little fantasy scenario I wrote out last month some time, if you missed it, I also included Cersei having the Mountain remove his armor to both attempt to frighten Arya and also in an act to show that she has no fear of Arya defeating him. What I didn’t add at the time is the line about “where the heart is.” For fun I’d have her stick him where the heart should be to no effect… Then she realizes Qyburn relocated his heart to his empty, brainless skull. 😛

      No, I don’t really think any of this will happen. I’m just writing out my imaginations. 🙂

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    104. Ëonwë: Chopping a head is not easy.

      Tell that to Ned Stark, the Night’s Watch deserter, the Meereen dude that Dany had executed in the dumbest possible way, Lord Karstark, Janos Slynt, etc…Although, Ser Rodrick might agree with you 🙂

      I wasn’t being too literal with the chopping head off comment. You said he might be indifferent to injuries and hits and I was using decapitation as an example of an injury or hit that would have an impact.

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    105. Mr Derp,

      Well Ned was chopped with Ice like the deserter. And Slynt with Longclaw. Chopping a head with Valyrian steel should be easy. But there are records of executions were either the executioner was an incopetent, or the axe/sword wasn´t sharp enough or both cases. There is this execution were the poor sod was striken a dozen times before the head was chopped off. People were fainting, vomiting or leaving the place due to how grisly it turned.

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    106. Clob: … but it could also have been for Belfast so we have to wait and see…

      Yeah, that seems like the most sensible approach. I remember in late January we jumped to the conclusion that Gwen, Iain, Joe, Kristofer, and John would be joining Kit and Emilia in Iceland because they were all seen at the airport together, but that wasn’t the case.

      Spain has always been kind to us with actor sightings so lets hope that’s the case again.

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    107. Undead Elephant:
      Am I the only one that wants Cersei to get eaten by a dragon?

      Well, someone significant should be, but seems too glorious and ending for Cersei. Her death needs to be her various deceits catching up with her and so a dragon would be too clean and almost heroic.

      If I had to pick who would die this way, my guess is Varys. There is some foreshadowing for it (direct threat season 7) and none that contradicts (Cersei’s prophesy is cryptic but clearly not dragonfire).

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    108. Ëonwë,

      The odds of a Valyrian steel sword making acquaintances with The Mountain’s head are actually fairly high at this point since many of our “good guys” possess them now. Either way, I don’t really think the The Mountain will die by decapitation. Like I said in my previous post, I was simply using that as an example of an injury that could affect The Mountain. Whether it’s easy or not to cut someone’s head off is beside the point. I don’t really care.

      I’m personally hoping that they’ll adapt the tried and true Sheriff of Nottingham suggestion of cutting his heart out with a spoon 🙂 I think The Mountain deserves a rather painful death, if he even feels pain anymore.

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    109. Undead Elephant:
      Am I the only one that wants Cersei to get eaten by a dragon?

      __________
      Eaten by a dragon?

      “Where’s the punishment in that? All over in an instant.”

      – S. Clegane

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    110. Ëonwë,
      There is of course actually real versus making something look realistic. It’s really just a matter of how or what they want to show. Did Theon’s strike really look any less forceful or clean than Robb’s or Jon’s when they did it? If they want Needle or someone with another sword to be sharp enough and forceful enough to do the job it will do the job. It might not work irl, but then there are a lot of decapitations in movies that are like slicing through butter. *shrug*

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    111. Mr Derp,

      The Mountain is a synthetic wight. Valyrian Steel kills wights. Arya has a Valyrian Steel dagger.
      Auf Wiedersehen, Herr Gregor.

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    112. awol,

      sorry, but to me Qyburn looked pretty much wounded and fucked up in Harrenhall. and what should be the use of leaving the winning side (at that time Clegane / Lannister), get picked up by their enemies and then just end up with the Lannisters again because Roose Bolton switched sides? i haven’t seen any hint on this.

      Qyburn’s reason to stay at the court is survival, first of all. then maybe some revenge.

      and forget about Gregor Clegane having had any friends at any time. he’s not just a cruel person, he’s also a boring companion. especially in a state when others start to entertaining: drunk. ask Tywin and Arya!

      the dialogue about luck had the purpose of presenting show newcomer Q as a person who sees things much clearer than even the folks we liked for seeing things quite clear.

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    113. Ten Bears:
      Mr Derp,

      The Mountain is a synthetic wight. Valyrian Steel kills wights. Arya has a Valyrian Steel dagger. Auf Wiedersehen, Herr Gregor.

      Ten Bears,

      I hate it when my wights come synthetic. I’m much more of a natural wight kind of guy.

      If you’re right, then I think there’s an even better chance that Arya will be the one to finish off The Mountain. Occasionally the show talks about fights between strong/slow people vs. small/fast people. Usually, the stronger of the two wins, but I think our girl Arya will defy the odds in season 8.

      Jaime could do it with Widow’s Wail (god I hope he changes the name of that sword), Brienne could do it with Oathkeeper, perhaps the Hound could do it with Heartsbane. Many possibilities.

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    114. Random, off-topic thought that continues to vex me to this day…

      Why didn’t the AOTD kill Sam at the end of season 2? A WW looked right at him yet kept on moving. I thought the AOTD was all about killing every human?

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    115. I predict the Mountain will die by dragonflame..it was kinda prophecised by Mirri Maz Dur (mountains blowing like leaves in the wind)..although after Viserion taking out the Wall, this could also be linked to that particular line.

      Mr Derp:
      Ëonwë,

      The odds of a Valyrian steel sword making acquaintances with The Mountain’s head are actually fairly high at this point since many of our “good guys” possess them now.Either way, I don’t really think the The Mountain will die by decapitation.Like I said in my previous post, I was simply using that as an example of an injury that could affect The Mountain.Whether it’s easy or not to cut someone’s head off is beside the point.I don’t really care.

      I’m personally hoping that they’ll adapt the tried and true Sheriff of Nottingham suggestion of cutting his heart out with a spoon 🙂I think The Mountain deserves a rather painful death, if he even feels pain anymore.

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    116. i expect Herrn Clegane to die in a fight against some sort of monster. not a human being. storyline says “no man can kill That”, so there is no use in sending any human being into a fight against His Gregorness. not even the best living swordfighter, something with “Snow”. not even the zombiefied best of all times, Arthur Dayne.

      i expect him to quit after, what do i know, say: step on Viserion’s tail twenty times in a row.

      Viserion: “do you know who i am?”
      Mountain: “another dead lizard.”

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    117. death by chickenfire: storyline says “no man can kill That”, so there is no need in sending any human being into a fight against His Gregorness

      What about a woman?

      Sounds like LOTR with the Nazgul being killed by Eowyn.

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    118. Since the mountain is a pseudo-wigth, the faster way to eliminate him would be fire. Why bother cutting him to pieces?

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    119. Mr Derp,

      Most likely because he wasn’t much of a threat, or perhaps they sensed he had no badness in him, or (tinfoil alert), perhaps the WW (NK) knew of Sam’s role to play in the events to come: Events that’d either lead to them gaining a Dragon or indeed as an integral part of the war that leads to their eventual destruction (allowing them to rest).

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    120. Ëonwë:
      House Monty,

      Because they´re either killing or cutting the direwolves out of the series due to “how difficult is to make them” ignoring the importance of the direwolves and the links between them and the Stark kids. And yet they spent the last seasons pestering the VFX team with making the polar bear and when they asked D&D why spent “money and time” on something that the scripts didn´t justify they told the team “we think it looks cool”.

      Still pisses me off with Sansa in WF S 5,6 and 7 and they don’t have her visit the grave yard to see Lady, book wise she still thinks of her.

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    121. Apollo,

      That’s what I thought at first as well, but the AOTD has killed a lot of people that weren’t a threat or did anything specifically to deserve being killed (i.e. Hardhome). Besides, if the NK can see into the future, he would’ve known that Sam would kill a WW.

      My guess is they probably took one look at Sam and knew he is so bad at fighting that he wouldn’t help them even if wightified, lol.

      If I had to guess, I would say you’re right that they might’ve seen that he would be more useful to them alive than dead, but I don’t know for sure. It just stands out to me as going against what the AOTD’s usual M.O. is.

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    122. Mr Derp: What about a woman?

      Sounds like LOTR with the Nazgul being killed by Eowyn.

      i forgot to mention that she is not part of the show. i wanted to.

      this is the day i fuck up all my jokes by leaving the most important lines. bad start, as i also want to discuss wight chickens and Adolf Clegane’s moustache with Ten Bears…

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    123. Sam wasn´t killed in S2 because the script said so. Against the power of the script nobody can´t do anything.

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    124. Mr Derp,

      Well we now know that the NK can see the past/present/future, and has likely manipulated events that led to the wall falling. Also, he’s had 8000 years of studying the timelines, so it’s entirely possible he is aware of Sam’s role in whatever has happened/yet to happen.

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    125. I think that chances of Arya being the one to kill Cercei are pretty high. If we recall Season 7, it was forshadowed at least three times. First when Arya met the lannisters soldiers and told them she was going to kill the queen, then with hot pie and last when she reunited with Bran! The S07 really wanted to get a conection between Arya and her will of killing Cercei, more than the other remaining names of her list.

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    126. Apollo,
      I don’t think I’m convinced of all of that. Just seeing the things that have happened would lead me to believe that he has an extra sense about things that are happening and/or might happen but I don’t think he can fully see future events and completely manipulate them. That would make it impossible to defeat him.

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    127. Mr Derp,

      I’d guess it is either because they didn’t think he posed a threat (unlikely), wanted a (or some) survivor(s) to bring word to Castle Black (for the same reasons they let that one Night’s Watch member escape back in the cold open of episode 1, which are pretty unknown), or (more tinfoily) they have an objective that isn’t just killing all of humanity, i.e. just killing the Prince Who Was Promised (I’ve read some fairly convincing theories that suggest the White Walkers have solely been targeting Jon Snow this whole time).

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    128. Jaehaerys,

      Interesting theory that the NK has been targeting Jon Snow this whole time, but I’m skeptical of that seeing as though they’ve killed so many people that weren’t anywhere near Jon Snow or associated with Jon Snow.

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    129. Clob,

      Perhaps he’s not manipulating future events, but I keep thinking of the way he watched Jon at Hardhome, and more specifically when he faced Bran whilst in a vision, so to me it’s clear he is a very powerful greenseer.

      The WW had ice spears waiting for Dany to arrive, at a location that happened to allow them to pull Viserion’s body to the surface with the only chains I imagine could possibly be North of the Wall (although why that was all even necessary is another matter entirely). But they certainly knew the dragons would be there.

      I’m inclined to think the NK knows about Jons role in the war to come, and Sam indirectly led to much of that: Jon becoming Lord Commander, subsequently being killed and resurrected, which led to him leaving the NW, being crowned KITN, meeting Dany as well as whatever else is to come.

      Also- we don’t really know what he (or the WWs) want, ultimately. Maybe they just want to achieve their objective- wipe out mankind and then finally rest in peace.

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    130. Ëonwë,

      Season 6 and 7 proved he was a greenseer and a warg- he tracked Bran and the 3ER through Bran’s visions and recognised Bran inside the raven.

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    131. Ten Bears:
      Wolfish,

      I just want Arya to be Arya in S8.Not “wearing” someone else’s face, be it Jaime, Tyrion, Sansa, NK, or anyone else. The face-peeling trick has been used three times already. I don’t want to watch every scene thinking any character at any time could really be Arya wearing a face and impersonating him or her.I’d rather see Arya using her real superpower: stinging insults.

      Me too. But being realistic, the Northern Alliance probably needs Cersei dead. I agree with Luka and others that Jaime is the best person to kill her, but I expect he’ll die in the North. IF Arya has to infiltrate the Red Keep (hopefully with Sandor), there are layers of security they’d have to fight through to get to Cersei. They both need to conserve their strength and soundness for their goal. I envisage Arya using a Face (NOT Jaime’s) one last time until she and Cersei are alone together. What a scene that would be!

      George:

      Well, yea, BUT she threatened to kill Sansa, cut Littlefinger’s throat with Bran’s dagger, and Bran reminded the viewer that “Cersei is in her list of names” (Bran to
      Sansa, talking about Arya).

      And there’s the Melisandre speech to Arya in season 2 about “There’s a darkness in you” and her closing “green eyes” (Cersei’s?)

      She’s been to the darkness and in Season 6 (with Lady Crane) and Season 7 (going home rather than killing Cersei when she finally had the ability) started climbing out of it. The ‘threat’ ended with her handing LF’s dagger to Sansa and walking away. If Arya ever wanted to kill Sansa (she did not) she could have. And she didn’t shiv Littlefinger in the dark. She acted in conjunction with the family judicial action following a trial. Even if Cersei’s still on her List, she’s back with her family. There’s a war for existence going on in which Arya will participate. My guess she won’t go after Cersei at all, unless Cersei imperils their victory or harms her family again.

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    132. Apollo,
      Events on the show do make it seem like he does have something “extra,” but I’m not sure about being a full greenseer. We know he’s a magical being so what he’s able to do may just be part of that and is a different ESP that allows him to prepare for possibilities. There is a possibility that he’s “just” a warg, which would sort of fit with reanimating abilities. Being a warg would allow him to recognize things like Bran spying on him through birds and also see things far away that are happening, like Daenerys heading for them with her dragons. It’s actually an ability that would help him greatly in the current and prepare for things but not manipulate the future like a greenseer may be able to.

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    133. A man nearly 7 ft, over 400 pounds, with undead strength and the thickest possible plate armour on the market would obliterate Arya no matter how skilled she is, she is a 5 ft woman who’s pretty skinny and wields tiny weapons. The weight difference is STAGGERING.

      The show has always shown us how important armour is. It would be over instantly. The Brienne situation isn’t comparable at all as it was friendly and Brienne would be no match whatsoever ever against Gregs anyway.

      Arya’s skillset is much more useful elsewhere, besides she isn’t stupid enough to fight him.

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    134. Stark RAven’ Rad: Me too.But being realistic, the Northern Alliance probably needs Cersei dead.I agree with Luka and others that Jaime is the best person to kill her, but I expect he’ll die in the North.IF Arya has to infiltrate the Red Keep (hopefully with Sandor), there are layers of security they’d have to fight through to get to Cersei.They both need to conserve their strength and soundness for their goal. I envisage Arya using a Face (NOT Jaime’s) one last time until she and Cersei are alone together.What a scene that would be!

      She’s been to the darkness and in Season 6 (with Lady Crane) and Season 7 (going home rather than killing Cersei when she finally had the ability) started climbing out of it.The ‘threat’ ended with her handing LF’s dagger to Sansa and walking away. If Arya ever wanted to kill Sansa (she did not) she could have.And she didn’t shiv Littlefinger in the dark. She acted in conjunction with the family judicial action following a trial.Even if Cersei’s still on her List, she’s back with her family. There’s a war for existence going on in which Arya will participate. My guess she won’t go after Cersei at all, unless Cersei imperils their victory or harms her family again.

      I think it looks pretty sure Cersei will (has) commit crimes against the realm and directly endager Stark family members again. I now think it is very likely Arya will kill Cersei, but not as revenge. She will be acting in her new role as king/queen’s justice. Killing in the name of the law to execute a sentence imposed by the King/Queen is not a revenge mission.

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    135. Mr Derp,

      Yeah, the theory gets pretty tinfoily. It says that they attacked the three Night’s Watchmen (really only the one cocky highborn guy in the books) in the first episode of the series because they thought the highborn lad was Jon. Then they attack the Fist of the First men because they think (or were told by Craster) that Jon is with them, which he was right before he was sent off with the Halfhand. Then he was with all the wildlings at Hardhome for that attack, although I’ll admit I wouldn’t have a clue how the White Walkers would have known he’d be going there. And lastly during the Wight Hunt in S7, especially because the whole outpost of wights with one White Walker guarding them definitely seemed staged (although this could’ve been staged to get a dragon, like some people say).

      The theory holds more true with the books, as in that cold open in S1 (the book version) the White Walkers literally laugh and taunt the one highborn guy before killing him and letting the other two Watchers leave.

      It’s definitely out there, but it could be true. And they’d only be killing others and building their army up so in time they’ll be ready to face the PTWP. I don’t necessarily subscribe to this theory, but if the White Walkers have an alternative motive, this is the one I see as more likely.

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    136. BeardedOnion,

      …but hey, you ignored what I mentioned in MY scenario about Cersei having him take off his armor. 😛
      Yeah, the matchup may not be realistic to us. We’re not going to believe a ‘little girl’ could possibly beat that giant. The spectators on the show watching would think it’s a joke. However, they don’t know what she is or what she can do. Viewers are obviously still underestimating what she’s suppose to be able to do because they took some shortcuts during her training arc. It would be David & Goliath. That’s what the Mountain versus The Viper was. Oberyn wasn’t a man all that much larger than Arya. He didn’t use strength to beat the Mountain (before he became stupid and talked too much), he used quickness and skill. Frankengregor is slow as shit. That’s why a true Cleganebowl would be boring to me because it would just be two big dudes clashing huge greatswords together for ten minutes.

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    137. Apollo,

      greensight of the future is suppose to be more like dreams that aren’t fully decipherable. As an example, Jojen had ideas on what was to come and able to guide them somewhat on what to do but he couldn’t tell them exactly what was going to happen or change the future.

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    138. death by chickenfire:
      awol,

      sorry, but to me Qyburn looked pretty much wounded and fucked up in Harrenhall. and what should be the use of leaving the winning side (at that time Clegane / Lannister), get picked up by their enemies and then just end up with the Lannisters again because Roose Bolton switched sides? i haven’t seen any hint on this.

      Qyburn’s reason to stay at the court is survival, first of all. then maybe some revenge.

      and forget about Gregor Clegane having had any friends at any time. he’s not just a cruel person, he’s also a boring companion. especially in a state when others start to entertaining: drunk. ask Tywin and Arya!

      the dialogue about luck had the purpose of presenting show newcomer Q as a person who sees things much clearer than even the folks we liked for seeing things quite clear.

      Not sure if you have read the books but guessing not from your responses. There were some very drastic changes in the way the show did Harenhall that might have muddied things regarding Qyburn because it completely changed the circumstances of his introduction. I did not mean to imply that Gregor and Qyburn were amicable drinking buddies, I meant more a figurative/alliance link when I applied the show’s use of friend when Qyburn spoke to Gregor: Qyburn and Gregor have always had the same goals by different means. They are linked.

      It is not just an archaic bit of trivia that Gregor was responsible for the smashing beyond recognition of Prince Aegon’s face during the sack of King’s Landing. That was not by Tywin’s order, and is a bit of history that, along with Gregor’s murder of Jon Arryn’s former squire in the tournament, makes it very likely there are some historic revelations to come regarding Gregor Clegane. Remember, it was Littlefinger and Lysa who killed Jon Arryn and therefore them who had motive to kill the squire to protect their secret, not any Lannister. So why would Gregor kill the squire for Littlefinger? (I have strong hypotheses her I will not get into yet). This is not to say that Gregor has all along been working on behalf of Qyburn, but simply that there is, I think, a shadowy hand linking them and their actions.

      So without getting in to book spoilers, Qyburn was not a millitary man. Why stay behind at Harenhall you ask? Well to spy, I think quite clearly. He has even taken over the spymaster role now (suspiciously easily) but he was a spy long before.

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    139. Ëonwë,
      I guess I’m just not a ‘fencing’ fan (which that resembles to me) because that does nothing for me. Those are two regular sized guys parrying with rather lightweight swords in lightweight body armor. If they do a scene with Mountain vs Hound you know they’ll be in full plate with immense greatswords. They’d try to make it look like strength against strength so they’d have massive swings with earsplitting clashes and punches in between. I envision just a magnified Hound vs Brienne fight that would be geeked out on by those that want the Cleganebowl so much. It’s not a big deal for me so that’s probably why I imagine something cooler for my taste. 🙂

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    140. BeardedOnion,

      If it wasn’t for the fact that he got cocky, Oberyn beat The Mountain rather easily and he’s much smaller. I am aware that Oberyn is still bigger than Arya, but size shouldn’t be the determining factor here. The Mountain is big, but he’s slow.

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    141. Clob,

      Jojen knows a lot more than mere dreams that are difficult to interpret, both on the show and in the books. He doesn’t try to influence the future (never said he did), but he definitely knows much of what’s to come, for example when he himself was supposed to die.

      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ozPholpWbCw

      On watching this scene I’m now also wondering if Bran also dies in a fire..

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    142. Mr Derp,

      To be honest I liked that fight in the books more. Oberyn spent the whole time out of reach of Clegane´s blade and used his lance superior reach to stab the Mountain in the least armored parts of his body. When he blinds Clegane with the sun reflection on his shield and Tyrion thinks “Dorne´s Sun!”… woah what a moment.

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    143. Ëonwë: You said it. It´s fencing. Medieval knights were fencers.

      It’s been a while since I’ve brushed up on my Medieval history, but I don’t believe Medieval knights were good at fencing. Maybe they were in movies, I don’t know. I think fencing wasn’t even a thing until 18th century France, but I could be wrong.

      I think it was a lot of heavy armor, swords, and shields.

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    144. Apollo: Jojen knows a lot more than mere dreams that are difficult to interpret, both on the show and in the books. He doesn’t try to influence the future (never said he did),

      Well the greensight is supposed to be that way… closer to say Melisandre deciphering what she sees in the flames rather than plopping himself in the future exactly like Bran visiting the past and witnessing everything firsthand. I wasn’t implying you said Jojen tried to manipulate the future, I was mentioning it in connection to the suggestion that the NK is using it to change the future. I personally just think the ability to see the exact future and manipulate it is too great of an ability/power for him to have in the story and too difficult to defeat. I would consent that he has some kind of ability and/or can warg to explain actions, just not to the degree of “future folding.”

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    145. Apollo:
      Clob,

      Well one thing we can predict of the future is this .. nobody here will have guessed the correct ending 😝

      I’m certain it won’t be me since my guess would be far too much how I want it and far too perfect to actually happen. 🙁

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    146. Clob,

      But wait. The episode titles for season 8 haven’t been released yet, so that obviously means that there’ll be a strike and a cancellation of season 8! Jack Bauer 24 was right all along!
      Ahhhh!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    147. Clob,

      Oh no! Double shits! It’s clearly time to panick. Don’t mind me, I’ll just be hyperventilating in a paper bag for the next year or so.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Mr Derp,

      Those videos I posted. They´re techniques used by medieval knights. Bastards swords (Longclaw) weren´t used to slash and cut the enemy. They were used in thrust attacks that could pierce the armor. The true power of late medieval swords were in the point, not on the edge of the blade.

      Because armor renders a cutting sword useless. Chainmail can stop pretty well a slashing attack. A thrust attack not so great. That´s why plate armor was developped. It could resist both slashing and piercing attacks from swords.

      Plate armor also made shields useless. The men wearing it were already protected from head to toe. That´s why they favored two handed swords like bastard and greatswords. They trusted their plate to do it´s job.

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    149. Mr Derp:
      BeardedOnion,

      If it wasn’t for the fact that he got cocky, Oberyn beat The Mountain rather easily and he’s much smaller.I am aware that Oberyn is still bigger than Arya, but size shouldn’t be the determining factor here.The Mountain is big, but he’s slow.

      Armour has its weak points, particularly at the joints. Take out the back of his knees, and he’s a bit shorter and less mobile. 😜

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    150. I am starting to believe my own scenario in as far as IF we see the Mountain fight again it will be sans armor. I’m thinking that mainly based on how they’ve kept him completely covered except for the one shadowed shot of his head entering Septa Unella’s cell. Regardless of which person he would fight I think they WANT to show what kind of monstrosity he’s become, all stitched up and graphed together into something that barely resembles a human.

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    151. Pedro Pascal is almost 6ft tall. He’s certainly much stronger and heavier than Maisie Williams.

      Oberyn also stabbed The Mountain in the chest with a 5ft long spear specifically designed for piercing armour. Arya has a 2 foot smallsword and a 10-inch dagger.

      Oh, and The Mountain did kill Oberyn the moment he got his hands on him. Punched out his teeth and crushed his skull. Wearing full armour and with Arya equipped only with Needle and a dagger, he could just abandon his own sword, grab hold of her, snap her wrists and break her in two.

      Every swordsman in the Seven Kingdoms is terrified of The Mountain, for good reason. But 5ft-nothing Arya is going to beat him in a duel?

      I know people enjoy flights of fancy, but I’m with BeardedOnion on this one; Arya beating The Mountain would absolutely suck. Honestly, it has less credibility than the existence of dragons and ice zombies.

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    152. Pigeon: Armour has its weak points, particularly at the joints. Take out the back of his knees, and he’s a bit shorter and less mobile. 😜

      ———-
      Precisely the areas our future Queen targeted in her sparring match with Brienne. 👸🏻🗡

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    153. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      “Wearing full armour and with Arya equipped only with Needle and a dagger, he could just abandon his own sword, grab hold of her”… and keel over, because she’d put a sword through his eye and out the back of his skull before he realized what was happening.

        Quote  Reply

    154. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,
      Hey now, where’s your sense of magical fantasy?? 🙂

      Who’s to say or not if one of the story points George shared with D&D was that he plans to have Arya defeat the Mountain in single combat? He wrote the fight with Oberyn after all and he wasn’t suppose to stand a chance. Oberyn failed due to hubris whereas Arya may not. It’s not entirely out of the question considering what he’s done and doing with her in the books. If and when he does return her to Westeros I don’t think we’ll consider her as incapable as we might for the show version. They just sort of got (there) and expect us to accept it. She wouldn’t be restricted to fighting with just Needle and a dagger either. She has trained with a staff, so a spear is possible for her as well. Maybe she slaps on a face after the fight begins and ‘becomes’ a large man… Okay, that part is in jest, but still… fantasy possibilities. 😛

      I’ll reiterate in saying that I don’t see the fight happening, but I certainly would find it enjoyable.

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    155. Clob:
      Mr Derp,

      Neither has the red carpet premiere date been released!!!!😛

      And Maisie’s X-Men movie, “New Mutants”, has been pushed back again, to August, 2019. That must mean GoT S8 won’t air until 2020, right?

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    156. Ramsay's 20th Good Man,

      Bronn to Tyrion in “Mockingbird”:

      “Maybe I could take him. Dance around until he’s so tired of hacking at me he drops his sword, get him off his feet somehow… but one misstep, and I’m dead.”

      That’s exactly what happened to Oberyn obviously, but if Arya uses the same strategy without any cocky missteps, I don’t see why she couldn’t have a chance despite the odds not being in her favor. Gregor is gigantic, yes, but I dont think that’s to his advantage if he’s fighting a much tinier, quicker, and smarter opponent. It would play right into Arya’s hands actually. His slow lunges would be easy for Arya to avoid. He can’t grab her wrists and snap them if he isn’t quick enough to get his hands on them to begin with.

      Like Clob, I’m not saying it will or should happen, but I believe it would be foolish to think she has no chance to win with the skills she’s obtained.

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    157. Ten Bears,

      A handful of local saboteurs sneaking into the camp of a foreign army to destroy food and equipment really isn’t far-fetched at all. Although, it was unnecessarily sensationalised, like much of Ramsay’s military prowess.

      Ten Bears,

      Well, that might be one way of doing it. But, again, I don’t really see how she’d manage it once he’d got hold of her. And he’s got a near 2ft height advantage over her, so there’s no way she’s getting near his eyes unless she’s already in big trouble.

      If she died while doing it, that’d be more credible. But I think we’d all prefer that didn’t happen.

      Just let The Hound or Drogon kill him, I say.

      Clob,

      My sense of magical fantasy is pretty close to its limit, I’m afraid. I think this show was at its best when the magical elements accentuated the real world aspects, and not vice versa. The balance has swung a bit too far already.

      Next season we’re already going to have an ice zombie on an undead dragon fighting a woman who can’t be burned by fire riding another dragon.

      Do we really need to have the 5’1″ magic face-changing ninja miraculously defeating the 7ft undead behemoth in single combat as well?

      I’d just prefer the show to retain some grounding in reality where still possible.

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    158. Mr Derp: misstep, and I’m dead.”

      That’s exactly what happened to Oberyn obviously, but if Arya uses the same strategy without any cocky missteps, I don’t see why she couldn’t have a chance despite the odds not being in her favor. Gregor is gigantic, yes, but I dont think that’s to his advantage if he’s fighting a much tinier, quicker, and smarter opponent. It would play right into Arya’s hands actually. His slow lunges would be easy for Arya to avoid. He can’t grab her wrists and snap them if he isn’t quick enough to get his hands on them to begin with.

      Oberyn used a spear. Arya has to get really close and Gregor’s sword gives him way more reach. One slash is all it takes.

      Also, Gregor is new and improved, much stronger, much quicker and much more durable.

      Arya’s weapon also did fuck all to the Hound’s armour, which is likely to be nothing compared to Gregor’s.

      It would require breaking logic completely and throwing all sense out the window. At least Ramsay’s 20 men has historic precedent when it comes to familiarity with the environment and hitting when you least expect it. look at the Battle of Myeongnyang, where 100s of Japanese war ships were defeated by less than 20 Korean ones. Or the countless stories where armies get their shit completely destroyed by local raiders dead in the night or during storms. The 20 men thing is stupid, but not completely separated from logic.

      There’s a reason combat sports has separate weight classes, 200-pound men can get utterly obliterated by 300-pound men. And we are taking about a woman who’s at best 140 pounds going up against a 400 pound man, with supernatural abilities, with a sword longer than most people of the time, with armour so thick no normal man can walk in it let alone fight and fighting experience which spans longer than Arya’s been alive.

      This would be utter madness and would be called out by pretty much every single viewer on the planet. There’s simply no plausible way Arya can go toe to toe with him.

      Brienne almost lost to Loras and struggled to beat an exhausted, badly wounded Hound. Not to mention it was a very friendly spar. It simply doesn’t add up.

      Arya’s skillset is all about stealth and cunning, not going toe to toe with giant warriors. Arya will examine Gregor and conclude “Fuck. That.” and motion to the dragons to destroy him.

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    159. Tensor the Mage, Who Studied a Few Things at The Citadel That He Probably Shouldn’t Have says:

      Let’s not forget that Oberyn used poison on his spear in his fight with The Mountain.

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    160. Clob,

      Unlikely that George will have Arya killing frakengregor in a 1vs1 fight. Book Arya is an eleven year old girl who took a few lessons in swordmanship. This super ninja Arya is entirely D&D creature. The same with Jon Snow “the best sword in the north”. Gregor is a beast who makes people like Robert, the Hound or the GreatJon look small. And being a knight, he was trained in arms since he was 4-5 years old.

      You would need a huge suspention of disbelief in the books if George decide to g that way.

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    161. I feel the only way Arya can be done with her list is to be actually done or, at least have a main hand with the deaths (literally or metaphorically) of the remaining names on Arya’s list. The Frey’s was both symbolic and for me, very satisfying and props to the team. LF was just a full stop (fingers crossed not in a literal sense for Arya).

      Hmmmm. I HAVE to maintain my wish that Arya does finish her arc properly as, it hasn’t been completed yet and THEN wedding bells!!!

      Pweaze let Arya be Arya <3

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    162. BeardedOnion,

      Again, I’m not saying she would win. I doubt she would. I’m simply saying she’d have a chance. That’s all. You say Ary’s skillset is all about stealth and cunning? Well that’s how you kill The Mountain. Speed and precision can kill the Mountain, and Arya has that in spades. I admit that I’m basing this on what The Mountain was like before he went to the sunken place. I know he’s supposed to be stronger now, but not necessarily quicker. I don’t recall how they addressed it in the show.

      I don’t really have much of a desire to debate hypothetical fictional battles. I’ve probably spent far too much time on it already. I like your idea of Arya deferring to Drogon though. I can get behind that 🙂

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    163. Just don’t forget that A Song of Ice and Fire is listed in the genre of High Fantasy, so too then the show is such. One may prefer historical fiction or historical fantasy elements of the show and dislike the high fantasy, but the story is what it is. You can’t really say, “oh that’s super unrealistic and could never happen” when your talking about a high fantasy story. If Arya were to fight the Mountain I’m certain she’d find the weakness and exploit it. Again, I think there have been enough points made to tell us that people shouldn’t and don’t mess with Faceless Men. Her show training may have been abbreviated but I don’t believe we’re suppose to dwell on that. If we look at her fighting a giant dude simply from a realistic viewpoint of course we’re going to say it’s ridiculous. However, with a high fantasy point of view and believing that Arya is an exceptionally trained fighter and assassin then I don’t think it is.

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    164. Ëonwë: Unlikely that George will have Arya killing frakengregor in a 1vs1 fight. Book Arya is an eleven year old girl who took a few lessons in swordmanship. This super ninja Arya is entirely D&D creature.

      Do not be so sure. You do know about his contemplation with the age jump because his plans for the kids involved them being older? He may have decided not to do that entirely but he has been stretching it out. In his writing he’s certainly putting them into situations for older than stated age, such as the Mercy chapter. She’s also still in Braavos training so by the time she does actually return she will be older. I would say that George has her well on the way to “super ninja” territory like Jaqen. So I completely disagree with the statement that ALL of it is D&D.

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    165. Clob,

      The thing is, despite being high fantasy George likes to keep things close to realism. Ser Arthur Dayne, ser Oswell Whent and ser Gerold Hightower fell because they were outnumbered. They were better fighters than Ned and company but were short of numbers. The book duel between Oberyn and the Mountain is quite different from the show. Oberyn is wearing armor (with helmet and shield) and attacked Gregor by staying out of his reach and using his spear lenght. Brienne in AFFC is overwhelmed because she is fighting outnumbered. Jaime Lannister in the Whispering Woods kills several of Robb´s guards but is outnumbered too and captured.

      Can Arya defeat Gregor in a fight? It could be done in the show because Hollywood do things that way. Could it happen in the books? Unlikely because George likes realism.

      For example. In the first book we see the Others humiliating ser Waymar Royce in a swordfight. Show Jon Snow has already killed two in a solo fight.

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    166. Honestly, I’m super excited for Arya killing a White Walker or two! And that’s more than within the realm of possibility. In fact, I’ll be disappointed if she doesn’t!

      I can envision a scene where Winterfell is in the process of being overrun by the AotD, and Arya leads Sansa (and perhaps some other non-fighters) in an escape. On the way, they encounter a WW.

      Sansa: *gasp*
      Arya: “I got this!”
      *slice*
      Sansa stares in astonishment at her little sister.

      Ok, I’m not saying that it should be or would be that easy for her, but you know.. 🙂

      As for other villains that Arya might kill.. I still think it would be cool if she played a part in killing the NK himself. If not, maybe Quyburn? I could see her using her stealth skills to get in close to Mr. Necromancer and putting an end to that creep.

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    167. I would bet money on Emilia not being this year in the shooting at Itálica. She has the premiere of Solo in LA the 10. The premiere in Cannes is the 15 and she must be in London the 17.

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    168. Ëonwë: Unlikely because George likes realism.

      He does for some things and he doesn’t restrict for others. When it comes to some elements he gets quite fantastical. Normal guy fighting normal guy, sure, he’ll be more realistic and the skilled fighter will win. When he adds in the magical fantasy stuff he can go all over the board. Euron has a silly horn for Pete’s sake that kills the blower but supposedly controls dragons to the bearer. He’s actually moved Arya further beyond “normal person” than the show when he gave her warging abilities.

      All I’m saying is there isn’t an absolute here that George will not do something. He does some crazy fantasy stuff and I believe we’ll see more of it as soon as he gets back to where he left off with Jon.

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    169. Ten Bears,

      Ëonwë,

      Mr Derp,

      Clob,

      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      I prefer some feasibility with my fantasy. Arya fighting Brienne to a draw didn’t strain credulity because Arya had learned, observed, and practiced for years. She knew enough about Needle, swordplay and movement that she could plausibly have devised a very effective personal style. But the Mountain…??? Anyway, the show should save Gregor for Sandor. Arya would probably be there as witness and back-up. Many fans see Sandor killing his brother with fire. But IF Sandor goes down, the Mountain will by then be quite damaged. Arya would exploit that. Perhaps she’d have already put poison on her sword, or maybe her magical dagger can kill zombies. I think she’d have a fighting chance against a badly wounded Gregor. And if Sandor lies wounded and watching, she’d strive to finish off Gregor on his behalf. And this being high fantasy, she’d succeed.

      To take a page out of Ten Bear’s book, afterwards she’d go over to Sandor and examine his wounds. Fatal. Their eyes would meet. He’d smile and growl, “You’re learning. … You know what to do next.” She’d pull out Catspaw and wipe off Gregor’s blood. Most likely she’d kiss his forehead or whisper something like “You are a Ser to me.” Tears running down her cheeks, she’d plunge the dagger in.

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    170. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      “Do we really need to have the 5’1″ magic face-changing ninja miraculously defeating the 7ft undead behemoth in single combat as well?
      _________________
      Now that you put it that way…..
      Yes! Yes we do! 👸🏻😍

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    171. Ëonwë:
      I would bet money on Emilia not being this year in the shooting at Itálica. She has the premiere of Solo in LA the 10. The premiere in Cannes is the 15 and she must be in London the 17.

      Yeah she will most likely not. Though I suppose she can still be part of the scene if she’s on her dragon, which would require them to insert her via VFX.

      But who knows what is being shot there! L7R says that one of their sources entered Italica this past weekend and it was simply the platform, there was no sun shades (or other stuctures) like during the summit in S7. So whatever they’re filming there likely won’t a formal gathering of any kind.

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    172. Clob,

      Sophie Turner, Isaac H-W, John Bradley, and Gwendolyn Christie were all in Stansted yesterday waiting for the 12.00 to Seville. No picture but I did overhear that a) they were part of an 8 person group travelling and b) Iain Glen was joining them via another route
      Stark RAven’ Rad,

      Ëonwë,

      .

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    173. L7R reports that Sophie’s and Peter’s body doubles are in Sevilla.
      https://lossietereinos.com/la-presencia-dobles-actores-confirma-la-presencia-dos-personajes-rodaje-sevilla-la-ultima-temporada/

      So the likelihood of this being an action sequence seem to be extremely high. What initially comes to my mind is a scene similar to the one in Daznak’s pit in 5×09, where they are all surrounded by the enemy and our heroes are struggling to escape.

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    174. Jay Targ,

      A body double is not a stunt double. Interesting that you bring up Daznak’s Pit: since it was such an elaborate sequence, body doubles were used for the main characters witnessing the fights, for the faraway shots, so that the cast members didn’t have to be sitting there for hours on end with nothing to do but look at the fights. That’s the kind of thing body doubles are used for.

      In other words: don’t expect an action sequence.

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    175. Quite the opposite in fact. Sophie, Isaac and Peter’s presence to me indicates that these scenes will probably not be combat scenes at all, but more likely to be something quite different, possibly scenes with the remaining characters making their way through anruined KL, surveying the damage to the city for example.

      I can’t seen HBO being given permission to film a battle in such a historic site.

      I’m now more inclined to think that Jaime may not in fact be Cersei’s valonquar. If Nikolaj is absent, that tells us a lot.

      Riverrock,

      Jay Targ,

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    176. possible ways for Arya to kill The Mountain:
      1) repeat what we’ve seen in both previous combats. the faster in light equipment is taking his opponent’s stamina away. in this case, be ready for Arya performing even funnier moves than Oberyn for about ten minutes. then, big zombie G reahces to his chest: ah fuck, heart attack. that’s where it is…
      2) a bottle of wildfire or a similar substance and a torch. throw bottle at Mountain. repeat with torch. go back to seat and enjoy Sandor saying “this is what it feels like, bro.”
      3) i always wondered about Frankengregor’s diet plan. does he even eat? or does he have regular refilling sessions at Qyburn’s lab? if so, she could manipulate his fuel a bit in order to slow him down. or go blind or whatever.

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    177. Ëonwë:
      I would bet money on Emilia not being this year in the shooting at Itálica. She has the premiere of Solo in LA the 10. The premiere in Cannes is the 15 and she must be in London the 17.

      Dany dies confirmed 🙁

      Or she’s chillin’ in a maternity ward.

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    178. Undead Elephant,

      Also, she may be involved in a battle, or even if she’s not, she may be mounted on a dragon, which would be shot separately in an interior set. Also, we’ll see, in the coming days, if Clarke appears. She’s currently quite busy in the US.

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    179. Sophie and Kit are in Spain, and emilia is not, I’m so happy!

      I said weeks ago that this would be Jon and Sansa’s wedding and people were laughing at me, now it looks like I was right all along.

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    180. RedWolf:
      Sophie and Kit are in Spain, and emilia is not, I’m so happy!

      I said weeks ago that this would be Jon and Sansa’s wedding and people were laughing at me, now it looks like I was right all along.

      I wonder sometimes what show people are watching…

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    181. Firannion,

      I’m sorry to say it, but it may be too late for Arya. She may be too damaged. I am pulling for Arya’s redemption, too, but I think her fate will go the way it is foreshadowed in the books. She is becoming more wolf than girl, and may not be able to survive in captivity, so to speak.
      It would be one of the most “bittersweet” turns in the book.

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    182. KissedByFirewyrms:
      Firannion,

      I’m sorry to say it, but it may be too late for Arya. She may be too damaged. I am pulling for Arya’s redemption, too, but I think her fate will go the way it is foreshadowed in the books. She is becoming more wolf than girl, and may not be able to survive in captivity, so to speak.
      It would be one of the most “bittersweet” turns in the book.

      You may well be right. But for her book fate, I’m clinging to my hypothesis that remembering where her heart is when giving the Gift of Mercy to Lady Stoneheart will be the cathartic catastrophe that derails Arya’s assassin arc. Being a killer should lose its savor after that.

      In the TV show, I suppose that mercy-killing Sandor (as in Stark Raven’ Rad’s scenario) might serve the same purpose, though with less primal psychological significance. I guess one could say that he became a big-brother figure to her; they certainly bickered like siblings!

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    183. The Last Dragon named No One:
      I feel the only way Arya can be done with her list is to be actually done or, at least have a main hand with the deaths (literally or metaphorically) of the remaining names on Arya’s list… I HAVE to maintain my wish that Arya does finish her arc properly as, it hasn’t been completed yet and THEN wedding bells!!!

      Pweaze let Arya be Arya <3

      I do not think that word “arc” means what you think it means. If a character just keeps doing the same thing over and over and over, and does not learn or change or grow based on her/his experiences and decide to try another approach, that’s not an arc. That’s flatlining.

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    184. KissedByFirewyrms,
      Firannion,

      I don’t think “redemption” is quite the right word, as I don’t think Arya is need of redeeming. She’s not a bad person by any means, and despite the things she’s done, I would not categorize them as sinful or evil in any way. She’s traumatized & damaged, yes, but what she needs is to learn the cost/consequences of the choices she’s made and that a life of vengeance leads nowhere good and accomplishes little of value.

      As far as her “foreshadowed” fate in the books, if you’re referring to her warging into Nymeria, there is zero chance that happens in the show. It’s far too late to suddenly introduce her as a warg, or to have her learn to warg this late in the game. I also believe that this kind of an ending would not come across as effectively on screen as it would in the books.

      I also feel that this proposed ending is misunderstood by some. In the books this signifies her release from the trauma, the anger and violence that has been with her, and she’s able to roam free with her pack. It’s a final transformation of her identity, one that allows her to “be herself” albeit not in her original physical body. There is certainly a bittersweetness to that. And in the books, if this is her ending, I would hope that she chooses this path. That makes it more on the sweet side of bittersweet as it is her choice to abandon her physical self, and in a sense, ascend to another existence.

      For the show to present its version of this ending (again, this is only a theory), it would have to find a way for her to undergo this transformation while still retaining her physical self. How this happens is the big question in my mind, but it ultimately means that she does survive. I agree with Firannion that her giving mercy is a good candidate for this transformation on the show, although it could be any number of other things as well.

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    185. RedWolf,

      That is a crazy conclusion you jumped to. Rooted in so much evidence… I’m completely convinced.

      I don’t even understand how this theory came about. Do some fans think this based off of their scenes in S6? They had some touching scenes together… but c’mon. She also spent some time during S7 undermining him.

      If there can be one thing that us fans can count on not happening in S8, it is Sansa marrying Jon.

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    186. Jon and Sansa getting married…yeah, ‘scuse me while I *rofl*. Honestly, of all the crackpot, tinfoil stuff…`>`

      And yes, Arya’s “vengeance quest” has to reach an end sometime one way or another, but…I’m always puzzled when people seem to view it in a negative light…I mean, so far it’s resulted in the deaths of quite a number of thoroughly deserving people without whom Westeros is that much nicer a place, as well as in Arya acquiring some excellently useful skills & abilities. She hasn’t become a soulless monster who can’t adapt back to a life of not hunting humans. I just fail to see a problem with her story; she’s one of the characters whose choices have most closely aligned with what I’d have done in their place…¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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    187. Clob:

      Who’s to say or not if one of the story points George shared with D&D was that he plans to have Arya defeat the Mountain in single combat? … snip … not entirely out of the question considering what he’s done and doing with her in the books. If and when he does return her to Westeros I don’t think we’ll consider her as incapable as we might for the show version.They just sort of got (there) and expect us to accept it. She wouldn’t be restricted to fighting with just Needle and a dagger either. She has trained with a staff, so a spear is possible for her as well. … snip …

      I can definitely see Arya slaying frankengregor in some unexpected underhand way, and I’ll cheer. I cannot see her beating him in any one-on-one combat scenario, though. She’s tiny. He’d just strech out his armoured arm, grab her and snap her in half, no matter how quick she is.

      I don’t know if you’ve read the books, and I think this is a big departure books/show. In the books she receives NO combat training whatsoever in the House of Black and White. Not even quarterstaff. Rather, she learns to lie convincincly, she learns languages, she learns to spy, and she learns about poisons. It seems GRRM is setting her up to be a skilled sly secret assassin. (What would poor dead Ned think! It’s not honourable!) It seems D&D have taken the easier option of making her a super ninja warrior princess, forgetting the spying and and other unsavoiry bits, which I think, is a disservice to her character.

      I don’t want Arya to be a superpowered ninja warrior princess that can do no wrong, because that’s just a cliche and boring. I want her to be a real person, with her own motivations and flaws. I want her to be human. So that I can continue to love her.

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    188. Firannion: I do not think that word “arc” means what you think it means. If a character just keeps doing the same thing over and over and over, and does not learn or change or grow based on her/his experiences and decide to try another approach, that’s not an arc. That’s flatlining.

      Exactly.

      For Arya’s arc to have a “happy” ending, she has to let go off her list, her thirst for vengeance. She has to choose to put the past behind herself and look to the future. Let go of her list.

      Her finishing off her list is a lot bleaker outcome for her. Because, what then? She hasn’t chosen to grow as a person, she’s just run out of people to kill.

      Arya’s list isn’t some gods given truth anyway, it’s partly misguided. It’s an expression of her impotent anger, a way to cope with her traumas and powerlessness. She can only grow as a person if she lets go of it, if she lets go of her traumatic past, reconciles with her anger in a more productive way.

      She has acquired some pretty unique skills, though… I hope she uses them for good from now on, not on selfish retrograde revenge stuff.

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    189. talvikorppi,

      “Arya’s list isn’t some gods given truth anyway, it’s partly misguided.”
      —————
      Right. It’s not set in stone. That, to me, was the lesson she learned in the Game of Faces with Jaqen 2.0 in S5 (“a Girl lies to me, to the Many-Faced God… to herself”) and with the Waif in S6 (she did – and she did not – want the Hound dead anymore, so she had taken him off her list).

      A while back, another commenter made the cogent observation that while at the House of Black & White, Arya learned that not everything is black and white. She’d told herself she hated Sandor and wanted him to suffer – but she really didn’t. She was confused.

      I had also thought Arya expressed a glimmer of empathy for Cersei when discussing with Lady Crane how a mother would feel if her son were murdered in front of her eyes. If Arya learns that Cersei – no matter how evil she is – really had no hand in Ned’s beheading, she might have second thoughts about assassinating her.

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    190. Should add that I don’t want or expect Arya to kill every last person on the list. (A couple I don’t actually want to see die, despite the extreme likelihood and probable necessity of that.) She’s not a heartless, bloodthirsty killing machine, and is willing to revise as is appropriate. I doubt Arya will feel more warmly toward Cersei even if she realizes that she wasn’t responsible for beheading Ned, BUT she also may not necessarily be the one to kill her…especially after how many times she reiterated her intent to do so, that almost feels less likely.

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    191. Firannion,

      And I’ve been wondering about Quaithe as well!!!

      I don’t see Qyburn as a “loose cannon” at all. That’s what disturbs me the most, actually: He’s clearly NOT impulsive. On the contrary, he’s rational, strategic, calm, cerebral, and seemingly amoral. He scares the shit out of me.

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    192. Pigeon,

      Imho, perfect for the theme and far better than many others who interpreted it simply as a way to take cheap shots at the Catholic Church. Mind you, I’m not a big fan of the Church… but I expected a lot more, ahem, class, especially given the fact that the current Pope seems to be hell-bent (no pun intended) on dragging said Church into the mid-twentieth century. I would have liked seeing a lot more, say, vintage Balenciaga.

      /end OT rant

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    193. death by chickenfire,

      I don’t know about your Bronn theories (and I’m full of Dornish red), but I brought up most if not all of your points about Qyburn in a post I wrote, oh, a year or so back. I do hope the series grants us SOME satisfactory explanation/conclusion to his story, since GRRM probably never will…

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    194. Ëonwë,

      This is actually a reply to about a dozen comments, yours and a number preceding yours.

      Maybe it’s TOO obvious, but I always thought the Mountain would be killed by fire. I mean, DUH. Or is it TOO duh?

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    195. Wolfish:
      Pigeon,

      especially given the fact that the current Pope seems to be hell-bent (no pun intended) on dragging said Church into the mid-twentieth century.

      Hee!!!!! Mid-20th. I love it. 😂

      Yes, I think it is actually my favourite (I don’t really follow these things overmuch, as I could not care less about seeing one more Kardashian butt, or Beyonce or Madonna or whatever, tbh), but I like all the aspects of her look on their own so why not put together? 😊 I actually thought Blake Lively looked stunning as well. Our cute little Canadian Shawn Mendes just wore a suit, but ah well.

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    196. Ten Bears:
      Firannion,

      “We also can’t entirely rule out the possibility that Frankengregor, whom she trusts utterly, will somehow have his zombie programming go haywire…”
      ——————

      NK is going to hack Frankengregor and take control of him. Piece of cake for Ol’ Blue Eyes.

      Holy Hodor! What a fantastic idea! “Hacking” FrankenGregor. I see it kicking off like this:

      NK: “Dude…why don’t you try these on?”
      ***hands FrankenGregor a nice, new pair of baby blue contacts***

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    197. Wolfish,

      Yup, I kinda feel Gregor’s journey ends in fire as well. Most likely Sandor lighting him up. I can see them dueling for a while, Gregor seems to not be slowing down at all or feeling any of Sandor’s hits. All seems lost for the Hound, when Sandor spots something burning. He picks it up with his bare hand, overcoming his fear of fire, just to use it against his brother. And everything comes full circle. Sort of.

      The only bad part to this is that I doubt the Mountain can really feel pain anymore. So, unlike Sandor, the burns won’t really be excruciatingly painful. Much better than he deserves. At least he suffered a lot while ‘dying’ from Oberyn’s poison.

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    198. talvikorppi,

      “Arya will play an important role, but it’s not the Song of Arya and Fire, she won’t be the most important end game hero…”
      _______________

      It’s not? She won’t? 🙁

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    199. Mary Lee Malcolm:
      Ten Bears,

      I agree!And I think her besting Brianne was the foreshadowing of this.

      Yup! As I think I wrote a couple of days ago, Arya x Brienne illustrated that Arya learned from Sandor how to overcome a larger opponent who has armor and a big f*cking sword: Use superior speed and target exposed areas like the knee joints, hands and throat.

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    200. Helinsky: Cersei is on her list for having the butcher boy killed. Who know’s what’s coming, but it’s not unlikely she’s just there in support of Jon.

      As I remember it, Arya blamed The Hound for the butcher boy, she blamed Cersei for LADY’s death.

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    201. It looks like 2018 won’t be Maisie-less after all. “Mary Shelley”, co-starring Arya and Stannis, will be available on cable in June.

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