TV Guide talks to cast during Season 8 premiere filming, and Bryan Cogman picks his ‘must-rewatch’ episodes

 A new promotional pic of Tyrion in Season 8, in the courtyard of Winterfell.

A new promotional pic of Tyrion in Season 8, in the courtyard of Winterfell.

The news about the eighth and final season of Game of Thrones keeps comin’ and we keep rounding it up for your viewing pleasure, and this time it’s a preview story from TV Guide Magazine, who visited the set during filming back in 2017. Now that the article has been permitted to be released, we can glean some intriguing bits of character actions — and reactions — when the final season premieres in just over two weeks.

“It’s our biggest season by far,” David Benioff, told the magazine. “It’s only six episodes, but it was the longest [amount of time] we’ve ever shot, the biggest crew, the most extras and stuntmen. More people set on fire than ever before. It was intense.”

Writer Kate Hahn was on set during filming of the Season 8 premiere and was able to interview some of the cast members about what the final season has in store for their characters, including Jon (Kit Harington) and Daenerys (Emilia Clarke).

When they discover the truth, “she ends up in an incredibly fragile place,” Clarke said. “Jon is her only safety left.” Understandably, however, incest isn’t exactly Jon’s style, with Harington noting that “He’s not the kind of person who can [knowingly] jump in bed with a relative.”

There are lots of interesting tidbits about other characters, like Sansa, who Sophie Turner says feels “threatened” by Dany’s arrival in Winterfell. “She worked so hard to control the North and feels like Jon should be loyal. It’s frustrating to have Daenerys, who she feels is manipulating Jon, come in and take control,” she said.

And as for the much-hoped-for reunion between Jon and Arya? You might not want to get your hopes up that it will have the warm-and-fuzzies that their last interaction, in the series premiere episode, had. “They have led brutal lives since we last saw them together in the series premiere,” Harington said. “It’s changed them. Are they going to be what we want them to be?”

The article is an abbreviated version of the latest TV Guide Magazine’s cover story, which is available on newsstands now.

In a separate EW article, Bryan Cogman, longtime Thrones co-executive producer and writer, breaks down which episodes he recommends giving another go ahead of the Season 8 premiere.

I don’t want to spoil Cogman’s insights about the episodes that he chose, but he had some great reflections for each of the 21 episodes he chose, and a few interesting bits of trivia as well — for example, director Alik Sakharov purposely included an “homage to Akira Kurosawa with the flapping banners during Theon’s baptism scene” in Season 2’s “What Is Dead May Never Die.”

Caption

We all knew this episode would be on a “must-rewatch” list.

By season, Cogman’s must-rewatch episodes are:

Season 1: “Winter Is Coming” (E1), “The Kingsroad” (E2), “Baelor” (E9), “Fire and Blood” (E10)

Season 2: “What Is Dead May Never Die” (E3), “The Old Gods and The New” (E6), “Blackwater” (E9)

Season 3: “Walk of Punishment” (E3), “And Now His Watch is Ended” (E4), “Kissed By Fire” (E5), “The Rains of Castamere” (E9)

Season 4: “The Laws of Gods and Men” (E6), “The Mountain and The Viper” (E8), “The Children” (E10)

Season 5: “Hardhome” (E8)

Season 6: “The Door” (E5), “The Battle of the Bastards” (E9), “The Winds of Winter” (E10)

Season 7: “The Queen’s Justice” (E3), “Spoils of War” (E4), “The Dragon and The Wolf” (E7)

It’s getting down to the wire for rewatches, but we can always make time for these amazing episodes. Only 16 days to go!

223 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. The Children is actually episode 10, not 4. And I believe the title is “The Door” instead of Hold the Door for episode 5 season 6 I’m not sure if he got confused or I did

        Quote  Reply

    2. Those feel like some pretty big spoilers! Bigger than most things we’ve heard. I know a lot of us felt Jon wouldn’t be okay with incest (where Dany, with her knowing of her family history and expecting to marry Viserys when she was younger, will probably be less challenged by the thought of hooking up with her nephew), but I don’t believe that we’ve heard any cast members admit to that? Also, Sophie’s comment that she feels Jon is being manipulated casts more light on Maisie saying Jon was thinking with his penis – I really hope they don’t go down the path of Sansa and Arya teaming up on Jon to tell him he’s just being horny and Dany is using him. I would find that tedious.

      I always find things Sophie says about Sansa’s motivations and actions pretty perplexing – as to me, her words never marry up with my perceptions of how things have gone down. “She worked so hard to control the North and feels like Jon should be loyal.” – this line, especially, totally at odds with how I perceive the events that have happened.

        Quote  Reply

    3. I’m finishing up Season Seven this week. My third re-watch of the year. Some of the episodes he names I do not even remember their titles as listed here, some I do. Will certainly need to go back and give a quick once over of some of those he mentioned to see if there are subtle clues/links in them.

      They are really cranking up the expectations for the final season. I’m hoping the show doesn’t end up like Shakespeare’s description of braggart and boastful lovers.

        Quote  Reply

    4. if they are goes with the “war amongst ourself” drama. i would actually be dissapointed.

      i mean after they risking their lives getting one wight to give a proof for cersei so she can work together?

      that doesnt make sense at all.

      just hope its an attempt to get the audience not feel so safe for the anticipation of the last season.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Che,

      Yeah, I tend to feel similarly about most of what Sophie has to say about her character through the years. Not knocking her, of course, but I just… don’t really agree with a lot of her interpretations. I know she is Sansa, but even so. Hahah.

        Quote  Reply

    6. OT plug…what a great spring for film, GoT a sprawling made for tv film grand opus concluding. Then there’s the MCU opus conclusion and I recently read the grandest opus of all filmmaking, Bondarchuk’s “War & Peace” roadshow has been restored and is touring the US, and Criterion will be releasing it later this year.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Sort of Off-Topic…
      In Cersei/Lena Headey news (3/29/19 NY Post)

      Lena Headey may have offered a glimpse of the identity of the real-world YMBQ in an Instagram post directed to AOC:

      “Who should run the world…YOU.”

      Since it gets into politics, I’ll cover the text of the news story in spoiler coding.

      https://pagesix.com/2019/03/29/lena-headey-trolled-for-sharing-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-climate-change-video/amp/

      Headline: “Lena Headey trolled for sharing Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez climate change video” – NY Post, 3/29/19

      “Game of Thrones” actress Lena Headey didn’t mince words when responding to trolls who said she has no business spouting politics on social media. The notoriously curt star shared a video in which she directly addressed the backlash she received after posting a video of US Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., firing back at a GOP lawmaker who claimed the Green New Deal is an “elitist” pet project for wealthy people on the left.

      Who should run the world … YOU.”

      Headey, 45, wrote in an Instagram caption over Ocasio-Cortez’s response: “Brilliant, vocal, fearless, bold and inspirational woman. I f—ing love you and am side by side with every word.”

      Shortly after she shared the post, Headey addressed her political detractors in a separate video message.

      I just want to say, when I post my views, I don’t really think of myself as being highly political, I just see myself as a human being and I care about the climate,” she begins. “I care about the climate, I care about my children and their future, I care about my friends and their children and their future, I care about the crisis going on all over the world, the humanitarian crisis.”

      The actress concluded by giving her bluntest response to the negativity yet. “I give a f–k and if that offends you, or you think actors have no place in the world to have an opinion… f–k off, and unfollow me … And I shall not weep.”

      Headey, who will reprise her role as Cersei Lannister once more on HBO’s final season of “Game of Thrones,” isn’t shy about digging into politics on social media. In addition to the AOC video, this week alone she posted a video praising New Zealand’s recent ban on semi-automatic weapons and a few snaps of her at a march to protest Brexit.

        Quote  Reply

    8. Well, I’m a little sad that the Jon-Arya reunion may not be the warm-hearted scene I hoped it would be. But at the same time I understand how each of their experiences have drastically changed them. In fact book!Arya was constantly worried about returning home because she was afraid her family would not see her the same since she was a “killer.”

      It’s funny, because when I was rewatching the Blackwater episode, I thought it could foreshadow S8, particularly a discussion between Tyrion and Varys about the nearly 50 tunnels built beneath Kings Landing:

      Varys: The Targaryens built this city to withstand a siege, and to provide an escape if necessary.

      I wonder if this could come into play in S8 if the commonfolk are to escape King’s Landing. Cersei strikes me as the type of Queen who would hold the population hostage, which she did during Blackwater. In S7 the reason Dany did not immediately lay siege to KL was because of the people living there. If they were to escape through those tunnels then ….

        Quote  Reply

    9. Che,

      “Also, Sophie’s comment that she feels Jon is being manipulated casts more light on Maisie saying Jon was thinking with his penis – I really hope they don’t go down the path of Sansa and Arya teaming up on Jon to tell him he’s just being horny and Dany is using him. I would find that tedious.”

      ——–
      My thoughts exactly. Hasn’t the show already met or exceeded the Stark sibling squabbling quota? Is Sansa going to continue to be cranky and second-guess Jon? As for Maisie’s comment: Are the sisters really going to whinge about JSP or “call out” Jon for being p____y-whipped by the Dragon Queen?

      Please, no…

        Quote  Reply

    10. “She worked so hard to control the North and feels like Jon should be loyal. It’s frustrating to have Daenerys, who she feels is manipulating Jon, come in and take control.”

      Honestly, I get this. Sansa spent her time in King’s Landing where there’s manipulation, lying, and constant power plays. It’s natural to be a little paranoid given what she’s been through. It also reminds me of how Cersei acted when she felt that Margaery was controlling Joffrey and later Tommen. I can’t recall a politically powerful woman who was genuinely kind and upfront with Sansa prior to her escaping KL. Having said that, I’m guessing the NK will interrupt any discord and Dany will just have to prove herself to be accepted by Sansa and any of the other Northerners.

        Quote  Reply

    11. Ten Bears:
      Che,

      “Also, Sophie’s comment that she feels Jon is being manipulated casts more light on Maisie saying Jon was thinking with his penis – I really hope they don’t go down the path of Sansa and Arya teaming up on Jon to tell him he’s just being horny and Dany is using him. I would find that tedious.”

      ——–My thoughts exactly. Hasn’t the show already met or exceeded the Stark sibling squabbling quota? Is Sansa going to continue to be cranky and second-guess Jon? As for Maisie’s comment: Are the sisters really going to whinge about JSP or “call out” Jon for being p____y-whipped by the Dragon Queen?

      Please, no…

      Agreed. With the AotD approaching and the Battle of Winterfell in 803, this can’t go on too long thankfully.

      Also, is this the first interview with Cogman since Season 7? Seems rare to hear from him. I know he used to be on Twitter, but eventually left.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Right away there are signs of discord between Sansa and Dany. “Sansa is threatened,” Turner says. “She worked so hard to control the North and feels like Jon should be loyal. It’s frustrating to have Daenerys, who she feels is manipulating Jon, come in and take control.”

      I can’t stand her character in the show, and this whole fake tension anymore. I hope it doesn’t last more than the first two episodes.

      Warm and fuzzies aren’t guaranteed in his reunion with adored sister Arya either. “They have led brutal lives since we last saw them together in the series premiere,” Harington says. “It’s changed them. Are they going to be what we want them to be?”

      Fair enough. But they better not f*ck this up.

      Jaime believes leaving Cersei is what’s best for her and their unborn child. “There is no future without defeating the threat,” says Coster-Waldau.

      The most disappointing thing I could hear about his motivations. A total let down. I just hope Nikolaj doesn’t know wth he’s talking about. It wouldn’t be the first time with these actors.

        Quote  Reply

    13. “And as for the much-hoped-for reunion between Jon and Arya? You might not want to get your hopes up that it will have the warm-and-fuzzies that their last interaction, in the series premiere episode, had. “They have led brutal lives since we last saw them together in the series premiere,” Harington said. “It’s changed them. Are they going to be what we want them to be?”

      _________
      • Their last interaction wasn’t in the series premiere episode. It was in S1e2, when Jon gave Arya Needle and said “I’m going to miss you” right before she jumped into his arms.

      • You bet I want the Jon-Arya reunion to “have the warm and fuzzies”! Sansa and Jon were never close, and yet their reunion in S6 got the warm and fuzzy treatment.

      • As for Kit H. posing the question: “Are they going to be what we want them to be?”
      Well gee, who was it that gave his little sister a custom-made castle-forged steel sword and told her it won’t hack a man’s head off but could poke him full of holes if she were quick enough? Who encouraged her to practice and told her, “You’ll have to work at it every day”?
      Why would he of all people be surprised that she became a super ninja assassin warrior princess? He’s the one who set her on that path.
      Damn it. Brienne is impressed by Arya’s attitude and martial skills. Sandor is proud of her. What did Jon expect would happen to her? (Not that he should be upset. He wrote her off as dead even though she’d been seen alive and well – and traveling incognito – by Brienne.)

        Quote  Reply

    14. Daya:
      The Children is actually episode 10, not 4. And I believe the title is “The Door” instead of Hold the Door for episode 5 season 6 I’m not sure if he got confused or I did

      No, you’re right. And as Ten Bears pointed out, the last Jon/Arya interaction was in 102, not the series premiere. Cogman must have just been off with some of his episode names and placements.

        Quote  Reply

    15. Ten Bears,

      Jon is going to be blown away by Arya’s skills, there’s no doubting that. What he may have more difficulty with is her almost becoming an assassin – to Mr Honourable, that will be hugely problematic for him (even though she never actually carried out an assignment). Her desire for revenge will be hugely at odds with his desire to save the world first and worry about the fucked up people in it second *cough* Cersei *cough* – for instance, if they all make it south after the battle at Winterfell (assuming it falls) and Jon wants to seek Cersei’s help to continue the battle but Arya just wants to kill her, that could cause huge difficulties for them. I fear there’s probably quite a lot of Stark-strife left to come. More’s the pity; I genuinely would be 100% happy if they all just got on.

        Quote  Reply

    16. Alba,

      You know what else bothers me about this? Why can’t two women characters bond and work together? Guy characters – even sworn enemies – readily bury the hatchet and become allies and even bffs. (E.g., Jon & Tormund; Davos & Tyrion; Jorah & Tyrion; Sandor & Thoros + Beric.) Why does distrust have to be default setting between two women? I don’t get why Sansa should feel Dany is “manipulating” Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    17. And if Dany was manipulating Jon, why would she have risked everything going Beyond The Wall where she did lose one of her dragons? Now Sansa doesn’t know that right away, but I’m guessing she should learn that pretty quick?

        Quote  Reply

    18. Alba,

      Sansa is threatened,” Turner says. “She worked so hard to control the North…”

      ______
      Ummm…. how?

      Did I miss something? I saw 62 Mormont fighting men and a Wildling army do the heavy lifting.

        Quote  Reply

    19. Ten Bears:
      Alba,

      Sansa is threatened,” Turner says. “She worked so hard to control the North…”

      ______ Ummm…. how?

      Did I miss something? I saw 62 Mormont fighting men and a Wildling army do the heavy lifting.

      Well…..she did work pretty hard: manipulating Jon, lying by omission and sneaking around with Littlefinger without anyone else’s knowledge can’t have been easy.

        Quote  Reply

    20. Ten Bears,

      And getting trashed by Ramsay´s army thanks to Jon pulling a Leeroy Jenkins only for Sansa and the Vale to arrive and save the day in (another) cavalry charge.

      I guess that Sophie means that Sansa last season did all that work whithout glory you know? Diplomacy, logistics, seeing the everyday goings… all that work that Tywin, Jon Arryn and Ned did before for Aerys and Robert.

      Between Littlefinger, prickly lords, a creepy brother and a psycopath sister is a miracle the north was so well managed.

        Quote  Reply

    21. Che,

      “Jon is going to be blown away by Arya’s skills, there’s no doubting that. What he may have more difficulty with is her almost becoming an assassin – to Mr Honourable, that will be hugely problematic for him (even though she never actually carried out an assignment). Her desire for revenge will be hugely at odds with his desire to save the world first and worry about the fucked up people in it second *cough* Cersei *cough*

      I’d be surprised if she tells him. He might find out anyway. She did tell Sansa, though not because she was bragging or suddenly trusted her. Probably Sansa would inevitably tell Littlefinger. He would then know he’d gotten a death stare from someone who could kill him any time as anyone, and prerhap do something stupid to prevent that. If so, it worked. At any rate, I doubt there will be any real tension between Arya and Jon, though she has always asked pertinent, crucial, uncomfortable questions of everyone. But with Jon, her questions will come from her concern for him. She did give up the Cersei stalking to return to family, but Cersei will surely have betrayed them again. I hope that if she does go after Cersei in KL, it’s with the blessing of Jon and the others. And hopefully, she’ll take Sandor.

      Tyjon:
      OT plug…what a great spring for film, GoT a sprawling made for tv film grand opus concluding. Then there’s the MCU opus conclusion and I recently read the grandest opus of all filmmaking,Bondarchuk’s “War & Peace” roadshow has been restored and is touring the US, and Criterion will be releasing it later this year.

      I saw the original roadshow–it was fantastic cinematic event, especially the battle scenes. The Soviet government gave Bondarchuk an unprecedented budget and it shows. I thought the acting a bit wooden, but these were Russians and must have been reasonably authentic. W&P is my favorite novel; I’ve probably read it 5-6 times. It seemed sooooo long the first time…but most of GRRM’s series are longer. W&P seemed much shorter on my last go-round 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    22. “They have led brutal lives since we last saw them together in the series premiere,” Harington said. “It’s changed them. Are they going to be what we want them to be?”

      I’ve pretty much been expecting that Arya and Jon might not be able to rekindle the kind of relationship they had from season 1, so I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the way it goes. But at least don’t f&ck up their initial reunion! I mean, how wouldn’t both of them be over the moon to see each other after such a long and harrowing time? Hopefully Kit is talking more generally about how they will interact after their reunion.

        Quote  Reply

    23. Enharmony1625,

      I hope you’re right. Maybe it’ll be like many of us have speculated: Jon will be overprotective, and apprehensive about his baby sister going into battle. That I could understand.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Che,

      That’s because we watch the events happening from above. We see every part of it. The characters see it from their own point of view. They don’t see every piece and they fill in the blanks how they think those blanks are. And yes we know Dany didn’t manipulate Jon. Jon made his own choices. But as for Sansa and the northerners we can understand why they think that.

      It’s just like real life. People making a fuss about thinks and most of the time they just with how they look at things. How many times is it not if somebody say something we misinterpreted what they meant with it because we look at it from our own perspective.

      With politics it’s even more so (like with what’s happening with Jon Dany Sansa etc) every action you do, wording you say will be put to the test and be giving multiple opinions about it.

      As back to Dany. I think those problems will only be in the first 2 episodes. I can understand that Jon and Dany are over because of the aunt nephew thing. (personally I’m all for a break up not really a fan of incest) but I think Sansa and Arya will change their mind about Dany and giving her some respect.

      Or it will go the other way and the action of the Stark sisters will move Dany into isolation (right word?) and pushing her to a side we don’t want Dany to go.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Even among regular folk, when a brother takes his girlfriend home to meet his sisters it is just polite for a while until they get to know her. Even regular in-law relationships take a bit of time to settle. And it is not unusual for family members to complain that girlfriend is manipulating brother.

      It does not help that the relationship between Daenerys and the Stark women will be between “the ruler” and “the ruled”. Sansa, in particular, was just beginning to find her place in the world in her family home in which she had some authority. Jon did not consult her or the lords supporting them. It will take some time to move to a more functional relationship. Friendship is further away yet.

      I am sure Arya will have an appropriate reunion with Jon. It will not be as emotional as Sansa’s as Sansa/Jon was the first for the family and it was unexpected by Jon. Jon and Arya has known for some time that both are Ok.

      That said, why would anyone expect Daenerys to be welcome everywhere in Westeros – most of all in the north. Lots of northerners marched with Ned to get rid of the Targs. They need the dragons and army now but as soon as the war is done, expect the very reluctant welcome mat to be taken up immediately. But a lot could change by then.

        Quote  Reply

    26. Ten Bears,

      Im with her. She has a political opinion and as every human being she has the right to voice that opinion. And sharing a video is nothing wrong with. She should have that right as a free person in a free country.

      People shouldn’t attack somebody for having a different opinion, especially not in a distaste full way those people did with her. And that same thing should be said to both side of the political spectrum because on all sides there are scum that don’t know how to behave and have a normal conversation.

      And funny thing is that we have more than 10 different political views in the world. So why not respect people that share those other 90+%.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Add me to those who hope they go REALLY light on any kind of Sansa/Jon/Arya mistrust, bickering, sore feelings, etc. etc.

      I mean, Danny could have easily set up shop in multiple places in the south – Dragonstone, Highgarden, Casterly Rock, and planned her conquest of Westeros and/or prepare to meet the AotD. Heck, with 3 dragons, the unsullied and the Dothroki she could have taken King’s Landing.

      Instead, she flew north of the wall to rescue Jon, losing a dragon in the process, made the trip to Winterfell in the midst of a Westeros winter, and brought two armies and two dragons to save the north (all all of humanity). But sure, she’s manipulating Jon and he’s thinking with his penis. Yeah, that’s the ticket.

        Quote  Reply

    28. What a busy GoT week! Thanks to WotW & all the great posters here. It’s been a joy 🍻

      That being said, lol, Arya & Jon reunion better have some kinda feels or I shall be horribly let down.
      It would be so unbalanced to not have something sentimental for those two, who were shown extremely close in season one, compared to Sansa & Jon, who couldn’t really stand ea other.
      Not to mention that when J&S met again, they had both been through hell & back, & still managed to be happy to see each other, so Cogman’s reasoning is false.

      I’m not fond of the way they are trying to explain what’s going on with sansa/WF/sibling quarrels.
      It seems like they couldn’t find a way to show the audience on screen what was up, so they give these little micro previously on’s for WF ea season
      Or maybe the actors are just trying bring more hype?

      I’m hyped 100%, so I’m not going to think about tedious tensions.
      I’ll just roll with it when it airs & enjoy every bit 🍻

        Quote  Reply

    29. Dolorous Methuselah,

      Strangely I’m all up for a little bit of drama. They maybe have problems but they are forced to get along bacause of the aotd. I’m wondering how they will work it out.

      But only if it’s better handled than in season 7 and it make sense.
      But it will the result be much better. If Dany gain respect she gain her respect herself not because Jon says so. Or maybe it will be part of a plottwist making it better. We don’t know before we see it. I have all the faith in D&D

      Eonwe,

      It will probably want to build a wall. (sorry couldnt resist)

        Quote  Reply

    30. I think some of their teasing is simply to throw off audiences. Remember when there was rumblings from the cast and crew (last season) about there being a lot of inner turmoil with Sansa and Jon but that never came to fruition. So I think they’re throwing folks off purposely so that we won’t expect what really happens.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Add me to those who hope that the Stark bickering/arguments/tension is short-lived. As for reunions, I think part of the reason why the Jon/Sansa reunion was so significant and emotional was because they were the first kids of that family to actually truly properly reunite instead of suffering from the Missed Him By That Much trope that teased us for so long. As cathartic as it was for those two (who had just gone through their own living hells at that point – escaping a raping flaying sadistic pyscho and being resurrected after murder and mutiny) to finally reunite with a member of the beloved family they thought lost, I think it was also cathartic for the audience to see two Starks actually make it to each other. That reunion will always have that impact for this reason, I think.

      However, Jon/Arya is totally, completely something else and something I hope and pray the showrunners do well. While they love their whole family, Jon and Arya were pretty much the most important people to each other growing up – nobody else could offer that same kind of understanding that they could for each other. And yeah, Jon set Arya on that path to ASNAWPdom. Although, I think he’ll be totally blown away by her skill level.

      And Arya, bless her, has that passage in the books where she’s afraid she’ll no longer be accepted by her family anymore if they find out what she’s done but thinks:

      Maybe I should go to the Wall instead of Riverrun. Jon wouldn’t care who I killed or whether I brushed my hair… “Jon looks like me, even though he’s bastard-born. He used to muss my hair and call me ‘little sister.”‘ Arya missed Jon most of all. Just saying his name made her sad.

      That just makes my heart hurt. The soft, possibly naive part of me hopes their reunion is emotional and warm and has those fuzzies. I think no matter what, Arya will always be ‘little sister’ to Jon in some way, ninja assassin or no.

      Please show please! Please!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    32. The relationships will become even more interesting if Jon dies (again) mid-season 8 leaving the women, Tyrion and Davos to sort their differences out. That is enough to generate that scowl.

      (Yes, Kit was filming for a long time but I do expect the order of finishing filming to mean anything about survival. D&D would be more clever than that.)

        Quote  Reply

    33. Ten Bears,

      So do I. I can definitely see Jon being a bit overprotective of his two sisters, regardless of how impressed he will be at Arya’s skill. Them disagreeing on how to deal with Cersei is also quite plausible, though I really hope they handle any disagreement between them (and Sansa) believably and not for the sake of adding more drama/tension.

      Jack Bauer 24:
      BTW, the Omaze/Emilia Red Carpet premiere winner was announced today https://twitter.com/omaze/status/1111712605268111361

      Wow, good for her! *cheers*

        Quote  Reply

    34. “War and Peace” restored ???? That is wonderful news I had not heard before. Absolutely my favourite movie of all time. Sadly filming was done very poor quality film stock, so I am thrilled that it has been restored.
      Now back to our regular programming ……

        Quote  Reply

    35. Does Sophie ever say anything about her character that actually matches up to what we have seen on screen? This is like the 3rd season in a row she says something in interviews that leave you scratching your head as to what she is talking about.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Adrianacandle:

      The soft, possibly naive part of me hopes their reunion is emotional and warm and has those fuzzies. I think no matter what, Arya will always be ‘little sister’ to Jon in some way, ninja assassin or no.

      Please show please! Please!!!!

      Arya and Jon not having a warm meeting seems insane to me. Needle was Jon. But I get she has a lot of reuniting to do. Jon, the Hound, Gendry. I’m sure she’ll be jazzed about the dragons.
      I will give you Jon might be a bit thrown off in general. Arya is an assassin, Bran is -well, you know-and Ned wasn’t even his father, which means the woman he just fell for is his aunt. There’s a lot going on.

      Jack Bauer 24,

      I’ve been thinking the same thing.

        Quote  Reply

    37. RG: Arya and Jon not having a warm meeting seems insane to me. Needle was Jon. But I get she has a lot of reuniting to do. Jon, the Hound, Gendry. I’m sure she’ll be jazzed about the dragons.
      I will give you Jon might be a bit thrown off in general. Arya is an assassin, Bran is -well, you know-and Ned wasn’t even his father, which means the woman he just fell for is his aunt. There’s a lot going on.

      I agree with you! I’m just an Eeyore sometimes 😉

        Quote  Reply

    38. orange:
      Does Sophie ever say anything about her character that actually matches up to what we have seen on screen? This is like the 3rd season in a row she says something in interviews that leave you scratching your head as to what she is talking about.

      I have never understood or agreed with what she says about her character in interviews either. Maybe she’d been told to throw people off and she’s having fun with it?
      I have no idea.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Kevin1989,

      There’s nothing at all strange about looking forward to the drama. That’s supposed to be what we’re all watching for. Although you wouldn’t know it from the way people talk around here these days.

        Quote  Reply

    40. I’m starting season 4 tonight. This is probably my 5th time through pre-season premiere. I am noticing things, foretelling of future events, people and plot points I missed before! I’m so happy we are close to S8. Tingling with anticipation as I write this.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Che,

      Yeah… my feelings exactly. The comments about how Dany and Jon may handle the Targ reveal- while somewhat expected- are definitely spoilery. And Sophie admitting that Sansa will have some issues with Jon and Dany are kind of concerning. I am really hoping that this falls into just another preseason tidbit that Sophie says that doesn’t really reflect how things actually play out for the audience. Too much focus on this dynamic seems like the kind of cheap drama that should be very clearly insignificant, given the looming war.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Mmm hmm. Don’t buy the BS, people. They do tend to say a lot of things that just don’t happen. Mostly distraction from the nifty keen stuff that IS going to happen. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    43. Well let’s not forget that what Jon is doing reflects what Robb did. Sansa expressed her disappointment at Robb’s failure to protect the North’s interests by acting out of love. The Northerners clearly blamed Robb for the red wedding and all the Bolton terror because he was selfish in their eyes. But Talisa was a nobody foreigner to them, imagine if the king in the north brought home a Targaryen! Especially one he bent the knee to, a woman who spent her life in foreign lands with an army of supposed savages (let’s not forget how they felt about the wildlings). Sansa wants to keep the Northerners on her side and she can clearly see that Jon’s recent actions are going to seem just like Robb’s. Arya is coming around to Sansa’s view now, and I don’t think she’ll be happy with Jon ruffling her hair and treating her like a child (I can’t see him being all that comfortable with a murderer).

        Quote  Reply

    44. BaelorBalerionBaelish:
      Well let’s not forget that what Jon is doing reflects what Robb did. Sansa expressed her disappointment at Robb’s failure to protect the North’s interests by acting out of love. The Northerners clearly blamed Robb for the red wedding and all the Bolton terror because he was selfish in their eyes. But Talisa was a nobody foreigner to them, imagine if the king in the north brought home a Targaryen! Especially one he bent the knee to, a woman who spent her life in foreign lands with an army of supposed savages (let’s not forget how they felt about the wildlings). Sansa wants to keep the Northerners on her side and she can clearly see that Jon’s recent actions are going to seem just like Robb’s. Arya is coming around to Sansa’s view now, and I don’t think she’ll be happy with Jon ruffling her hair and treating her like a child (I can’t see him being all that comfortable with a murderer).

      While I think Sansa would be in the right to have reservations with how and when Jon bent the knee and the problems that’ll cause with the Northern lords, I hope she’ll be able to see that, unlike the situation with Robb and Talisa, Jon isn’t alienating an ally by falling in love with Dany. He’s alienating the Northern lords to be sure but the woman he falls in love with is also the North’s only chance at surviving the war they’re facing against the undead. Conversely, Robb falling in love with and marrying Talisa resulted in him breaking his vow to the Freys and that lead up to the Red Wedding, resulting in the Bolton reign.

      That said, I do think Jon is causing unnecessary problems with the Northern lords by bending the knee to Dany at this time (after she already offered her help and before consulting with Sansa, Arya, Davos, etc.) Yes, he bends the knee because he truly feels Dany will be the best for the North and I agree with the prospect of a united Westeros (the North isn’t exactly a rich, bountiful land and will be far less so in the aftermath of the war) but the way Jon did it will cause problems when they don’t need anymore problems with the Night King on their doorstep.

      I don’t see the bond much changing between Jon and Arya. No matter what’s gone on in the story, Arya cherishes how Jon ruffled her hair and called her ‘little sister’. As for Jon not being comfortable with a murderer – nearly everybody in this story has killed somebody else. Jon, himself, has quite a few kills under his belt and would have killed Ramsay via face pulverisation if he didn’t see Sansa just in time. And then Sansa feeds Ramsay to dogs. Dany crucified 163 slave masters in retaliation for them crucifying 163 slave children. Somehow, I think Jon won’t be bothered all that much by Arya’s body count 😉 Surprised by Arya’s skill level and everything that’s happened, sure, but I doubt it’s going to be a problem.

      Pigeon,

      That’s true! XD

        Quote  Reply

    45. Adrianacandle:
      That said, I do think Jon is causing unnecessary problems with the Northern lords by bending the knee to Dany at this time (after she already offered her help and before consulting with Sansa, Arya, Davos, etc.) Yes, he bends the knee because he truly feels Dany will be the best for the North and I agree in the prospect of a united Westeros (the North isn’t exactly a rich, bountiful land and will be far less so in the aftermath of the war) but the way Jon did it will cause problems when they don’t need anymore problems with the Night King on their doorstep.

      I agree with this. I think this is why the sisters will be upset with him. There is a callback to Robb for sure. Kings really can’t just do what they want. They have to keep in mind their alliances, etc. I think the aunt/nephew thing will put at least a pause in their relationship, but Jon did already bend the knee which really wasn’t necessary at that time as you said.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Sister Kisser,

      Why is it “concerning” though? I agree with Ramsay’s 20…this is high drama show but people here are now fearing some inter-family drama, I don’t really get it. Well maybe I do if by drama you guys mean action and battle a good vs evil but for me it would be boring if all we’ve got to look forward to is that clear cut.

        Quote  Reply

    47. In watching a couple episodes from Cogman’s must-watch list, they present some unanswered questions:

      1) Who sent an assassin to kill Bran Stark?
      We know that Jaime pushed him out of the window and confessed to Catelyn, but he didn’t mention anything about the assissination attempt. Someone infiltrated Winterfell and created a diversion with fire so the assassin could get to Bran’s bedchamber.

      2) Is Bronn just a random money-grubbing paid killer?
      He was heading back from beyond the Wall for “work” and just happened upon a rich dwarf at an inn. Then he happened upon Shae in the encampment and pimps her to Tyrion. Maybe it’s old news, but I always wondered about those two.

      I bet there are a whole bunch of other questions.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Tron79: I agree with this. I think this is why the sisters will be upset with him. There is a callback to Robb for sure.Kings really can’t just do what they want. They have to keep in mind their alliances, etc.I think the aunt/nephew thing will put at least a pause in their relationship, but Jon did already bend the knee which really wasn’t necessary at that time as you said.

      Right, and I think it’s reasonable for Sansa and Arya to be unhappy over having to deal with the resulting rabble rabble of the Northern lords that his bending the knee at that time will cause and he really should have talked with his sisters and Davos prior to doing so – they all know the Northern lords will hate this and they’ll all have to deal with that inevitable fall-out. But in contrast to Robb, Jon isn’t costing the North a valuable alliance – at this time, the North’s forces are severely diminished and it’s in their best interest to have Dany on their side. But Jon is causing needless problems with the Northern lords when they really really really really don’t need any more problems.

      I see why Jon bent the knee to Dany and I think that decision was heavily influenced by Jon seeing the magic that swayed the Unsullied, Dothraki, Missandei, and Tyrion to follow Dany all the way across the Narrow Sea and to Westeros. But this is a magic that the Northern lords, Sansa, Arya, etc. have yet to see. Maybe seeing an undead nightmare hoarde marching toward them will help them see what Jon did in Dany 😉 While I ultimately agree with Jon’s decision to bend the knee because a united Westeros will be needed to help sustain the North in the aftermath of this war, it absolutely should not have happened before Jon talked with at least Davos, Sansa, Arya, Bran, etc. because now, there’s just going to be drama that’s inevitably going to occur with the Northern lords.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Pigeon,

      Well, the upside of Sansa and Arya bashing Jon for bending the knee and surrendering the North is that you and your friend may have new opportunities for SansaAryaSpeak sessions:

      You’re ruining everything!!!
      You’re an idiot!!!!
      You’re just a stupid boy with a stupid penis!!
      Seven Hells!
      You don’t listen to me!
      I don’t care what you swore!

        Quote  Reply

    50. The inter family drama that bugs me is Sansa’s disrespect of the KITN, Jon. King Robb would have never tolerated his sister’s insubordination.

      When I think that this young man isn’t even a Stark, that Sansa and Cat rejected him because they didn’t know he is Lyanna’s son….and a Targaryen heir, to boot. Sansa makes demands of him that we all know he isn’t bound to obey. Why should a rejected, presumed bastard, son be bound to bring honour to a family that isn’t really his?

      It would be one thing if he knew the truth and still chose to honor the Starks. Right now he’s doing it because of a lie. It’s terribly unfair.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Anon,

      I know I’m reentering this debate again but they are his family! He’s got as much Stark DNA as they do, he grew up with them, they’re the only family’s he’s ever known. Even if we just go by Jon having a Targaryen birth name alone and forget the emotional side of it, the Starks are still Jon’s maternal family via Lyanna Stark.

      Jon does have an obligation to Sansa. At the very least, Sansa’s his regent, Sansa’s been holding down the fort and helping to prepare Winterfell. While I hope not to see another bickerfest between those two in front of everybody, Jon should be answering her questions. Jon’s decisions affect her.

      As to the rest, I’ve already expressed my thoughts on that here.

        Quote  Reply

    52. ygritte:
      Sister Kisser,

      Why is it “concerning” though? I agree with Ramsay’s 20…this is high drama show but people here are now fearing some inter-family drama, I don’t really get it. Well maybe I do if by drama you guys mean action and battle a good vs evil but for me it would be boring if all we’ve got to look forward to is that clear cut.

      I think the concerning element is what type of drama is going to be explored next season. Political intrigue, deception and interpersonal conflicts are what make this show so ‘real’ (despite its high fantasy setting) and they are a crucial part of GOT. However, when the conflict seems manufactured to produce an end result or it seems at odds with what we know about these characters, then it starts off as jarring and quickly becomes tedious. I don’t think anyone wants GOT to lose its character conflicts, but I am sure that most people don’t want to see more tedium akin to the Sansa vs Arya drama from last season – which seemed as though it was almost entirely manufactured to give them something to do last season and dispose of Littlefinger. It may have been more positive had they shown the two women realising earlier that LF was trying to turn them against each other, but instead, we find out that that didn’t happen to the very end. These two women, who we have come to know as intelligent, perceptive individuals, were totally hoodwinked by LF, who both know to be untrustworthy? Does anyone really buy that? “Only a fool would trust Littlefinger.” Yet she goes an trusts him for most of the season – is that loyal to Sansa’s arc and progression? It doesn’t seem so to most people, hence why many believe that drama was manufactured and don’t want to see more of the same.

      Another example of tedious manufactured drama was the Sansa vs Jon arguments from Season 6. There were plenty of opportunities to show true conflict between the two, as they were never close before Season 1, had different viewpoints on how to succeed in their mission to retake Winterfell and had come from totally different journeys – yet the drama we got seemed superficial – “Jon, you’re not listening to me!!! *pout and stamp foot*”. Again, that seemed totally at odds with what we have seen these characters become through their long-suffering arcs. Sansa is an empowered woman. There is no way she wouldn’t have spoken up if she felt she had important information. Nothing is stopping her from calling out Jon in front of the entire Northern court, yet in a tent with five people she needs to be invited to contribute?

      To me, and I think Sister Kisser was agreeing with this sentiment, the drama that we are dreading appearing in Season 8, is the notion that Sansa and Arya will accuse Jon of being manipulated by Dany because he has the hots for her (based on Sophie’s comments in this interview and Maisie’s in a previous one where she says Jon is thinking with his penis). If this is the direction they take, where Jon’s own sisters belittle him in such a fashion and remove his agency by assuming he is just driven by hormones (and not his overarching, much-publicised, desire to save the world) then that truly will be tedious and yet another nail in the coffin of Book!Jon’s character.

      Of course Jon kneeling to Dany will bring about drama – in many forms, from the inter-stark drama to the greater tension that will cause in the North – but if they are going to go with characters acting so out-of-character, then I will be disappointed.

      But hey ho, let’s see what actually happens, as these actors are most likely trolling us terribly.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Adrianacandle:
      Anon,

      I know I’m reentering this debate again but they are his family! He’s got as much Stark DNA as they do, he grew up with them, they’re the only family’s he’s ever known. Even if we just go by Jon having a Targaryen birth name alone and forget the emotional side of it, the Starks are still Jon’s maternal family via Lyanna Stark.

      Jon does have an obligation to Sansa. At the very least, Sansa’s his regent, Sansa’s been holding down the fort and helping to prepare Winterfell. While I hope not to see another bickerfest between those two in front of everybody, Jon should be answering her questions. Jon’s decisions affect her.

      As to the rest, I’ve already expressed my thoughts on that here.

      I so agree with this sentiment. These Starks need to learn how to discuss things without the entire court being in attendance. Why doesn’t King Jon have a council of advisors? It seems silly he doesn’t. Davos, Sansa, Brienne, the Vale commander guy whose name escapes me and Maester What’s-his-face would have been a good start. Instead they discuss ravengrams while taking strolls along the walkways of Winterfell and discuss hugely important strategic missions for the first time in front of their subjects… um… that makes no sense (but I guess it’s good for *drama*).

        Quote  Reply

    54. Was the wall falling concurrently with boat-sex before Jon and Dany headed North? I know the scenes used to happen out of sync earlier on, and that just because the scenes followed one another, that didn’t mean they were happening near each other in time. If they were happening around the same time though, then two weeks will have elapsed since the wall fell allowing the AOTD to start rampaging through the North and Jon and Dany arriving in Winterfell.

      Surely by the time they arrive, the North will be at panic-stations because of news trickling in from survivors? I highly doubt that an army of 100,000 dead men are going to go unnoticed by Winterfell and so surely they will be utterly relieved to see Dany’s forces and her dragons?

      It’s going to be interesting to see how this plays out, but for me personally, if there is a lot of conflict between Dany and the Northern lords of the Stark women, it’s going to feel a bit forced as they really should have heard that the AOTD is nearly upon them. You wouldn’t be hostile to someone who has just come to save your lives… I would hope. The argument that no one in the North knows just how real a threat the AOTD and WW are should be nullified by the fact that they will have had two weeks to wreak havoc in the North. Unless there is another time cheat.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Okay dudes. Jon got elected as King in the North by the northern and vale lords. This established a feudal contract between king and vassals. His vassals gave him power over them expecting Jon to defend their interest.

      And what are such interest? Since season 1 the north has broken with the Iron Throne. They don´t want to be ruled by a southron ruler in an iron chair that knows nothing about the way of the first men, the old gods and their sacred weriwoods.

      Now the Vale lords, who also fought against the Targs in Robert´s Rebellion spent the majority of the series in a neutral place. They didn´t join Robb, Renly, Stannis and the Lannisters. But now they have throw their support to Jon, now they too want to break free from the IT.

      Since Jon was elected, since he didn´t force them into accepting him as king this make Jon accountable for his actions. In S7Ep2 lord Glover, lord Royce and lady Mormont were quite vocal.

      And now Jon singlehandlely has bent the knee. He is no longer King but Warden. The northern and vale lords are now forced by Jon´s choice into vassalage to a queen they didn´t want. This is not an alliance, this is submiting.

      So can´t anyone really blame lord Glover, lady Mormont or lord Royce if they voice what they think? They elected Jon to defend their interest. And from their POV Jon is gonna arrive as a subject and lover of a queen raised in Essos from a family that they overthrow years ago for tyranny.

      Of course shit is gonna happen. And that shit is gonna be bigger when word of what happened to the Tarlys spreads.

      Sansa held the north as Jon´s regent. With a LF that tried to put her against Arya, that tried to use the lords disconfort to take the crown from Jon. And Sansa held the forth. She rejected the crown, she teamed up with her siblings to bring down LF. So yes, I find normal if Sansa and Arya ask Jon “why it looks like you acted like father and Robb?”

      Rickard and Brandon were executed by a Targ king. Eddard Stark wa executed by a Baratheon/Lannister king (and both girls watched Ned get beheaded). Robb, Catelyn and the northern army got butchered by the schemes of Tywin Lannister. Arya saw his brother´s corpse being paraded, desecrated and mocked by the Freys.

      From their POV I see why they can be cross with Jon. And it can be better or worse once they hear Jon reasons.

      The north wanted independence. Now it falls to Jon to explain why they are the subjects of a queen who wants to sit in the IT.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Forgive me if it was already mentioned, but did you see what was going on in the photo with Tyrion? A dragonglass enhanced barrier is being built to defend WF? I can already see the first rush of the AotD killing themselves against it.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Che,

      Yeah, that’s what I wonder! Why haven’t they learned to discuss things in, you know, private? And you’re right, Jon doesn’t seem to have a council. Why?? As you said, he seems to just do the walk & talks with one or two (Sansa and/or Davos). And if he’s not doing that, he and Sansa are having it out at least twice in front of their entire assembly, which makes little sense for those characters at this point in this story. They’d know how bad arguing about decisions in public looks, Jon should be consulting his advisors first before making major decisions and he also knows the Northern lords are going to hate the idea of his bending the knee to a Targaryen – but yet, it happens anyway. Likely for the sake of drama. While it’s true that Jon does have a tendency to make decisions even if all of his officers are like, “No! I hate it!”, he has at least brought it up with them beforehand in past instances. In addition to your 9.42 am comment which I wholly agree with, this is the type of manufactured drama I fear and absolutely don’t want because it seems so contrived.

      Eonwe,

      Sure, I don’t blame them for being pissed because Jon decided to bend the knee when it wasn’t even required to get Dany’s help and I expect them to get pissed but this isn’t a typical human vs. human war like before. Jon is defending the North’s interests – the interest of survival against the undead, that’s why Jon took the position and that’s what Jon said he was going to do. Lyanna names him her king after this speech from Jon:

      Jon: Winter has come. If the maesters are right, it’ll be the coldest one in a thousand years. We should ride home and wait out the coming storms. The war is not over. And I promise you, friend, the true enemy won’t wait out the storm. He brings the storm.

      And again in 702:

      Jon: You all crowned me your king. I never wanted it. I never asked for it. But I accepted it because the North is my home. It’s part of me, and I will never stop fighting for it, no matter the odds. But the odds are against us. None of you have seen the Army of the Dead. None of you. We can never hope to defeat them alone.

      The Northern lords are vested in Northern independence, absolutely, but it’s not what Jon said he was fighting for. He’s fighting to get the North through the war against the undead. This is something they haven’t seen in thousands and thousands of years, a war against the undead, another Long Night. But I agree Jon shouldn’t have bent the knee at this time because it is going to cause needless problems at a time they don’t need anything else to deal with.

      Rickard and Brandon were executed by a Targ king. Eddard Stark wa executed by a Baratheon/Lannister king (and both girls watched Ned get beheaded). Robb, Catelyn and the northern army got butchered by the schemes of Tywin Lannister. Arya saw his brother´s corpse being paraded, desecrated and mocked by the Freys.

      I can certainly see how the North would be wary, absolutely, because of their past experiences and I would be too! But Dany isn’t them, nor is she responsible for any of the North’s suffering. On the other hand, they don’t know Dany and they haven’t seen what Jon has seen of the undead or Dany. The North wants to be independent but a quibble I have with that is would that be sustainable? They’re already struggling, they’re not a bountiful nation with riches and resources, and it’ll be in worse shape after the war. How will it sustain itself in the aftermath?

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ice Hunter,

      Holy sh*t, you’re right! Good spot. Those are dragonglass-studded wooden crosses outside WF. I hadn’t notice that in the picture of Tyrion. (I was distracted by his glum look.)

      I zoomed in a bit, and it appears the workman on the right is hammering a piece of dragonglass onto a cross-beam, and in the foreground just to Tyrion’s left there appear to be open crates containing chunks of excavated Dragonglass.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Adrianacandle: on does have an obligation to Sansa. At the very least, Sansa’s his regent, Sansa’s been holding down the fort and helping to prepare Winterfell. While I hope not to see another bickerfest between those two in front of everybody, Jon should be answering her questions. Jon’s decisions affect her.

      Is a prisoner obligated to his warden? Sansa thinks Jon is family only when she wants something from him, and as long as Jon is blind to the truth of his identity, he is essentially a prisoner.

      In the meantime, poor Jon is desperate to be accepted all the while knowing that he is not. He gave her that job. He did it partly because he knows what she’s thinking, just like Arya does.

      Sansa doesn’t want to be thinking it, but she is: he is NOT one of us.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Che,

      “These two women, who we have come to know as intelligent, perceptive individuals, were totally hoodwinked by LF, who both know to be untrustworthy? Does anyone really buy that? “Only a fool would trust Littlefinger.” Yet she goes an trusts him for most of the season – is that loyal to Sansa’s arc and progression.”

      _____
      Right! And Little Miss Lie Detector gets bamboozled too?
      That whole manufactured drama would’ve been resolved in five minutes by a simple answer to a simple question: “Where did you get this [letter]?” Instead, Arya evades the question and Sansa never follows up on it.
      I’ll stop here. I don’t want to beat a dead horse.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Anon,

      I think we have wildly different interpretations of the show in these instances. I disagree with your interpretation of Sansa’s characterization and her view of Jon and I disagree with Jon being a prisoner, not to mention Sansa’s prisoner. It’s not like Sansa knows the truth either and is secretly taking advantage of Jon being in the dark. Jon absolutely has a responsibility to Sansa as king, as a leader, and because all of Jon’s decisions affect her.

      I also really don’t think he gave Sansa the job as his regent in an effort to be accepted by her and because he somehow thinks Sansa doesn’t regard him as family. He gave Sansa the job because he truly feels Sansa is the best suited for the task. I’m sort of at a loss for words here at how differently we see this story XD;;; but I don’t want to rehash a debate we’ve already had at length about Ned, Jon’s true identity, etc. because I don’t have anything new to say that I haven’t said before (I’m already risking repeating myself over and over). My thoughts on that are already here 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    62. Che,

      “Surely by the time they arrive, the North will be at panic-stations because of news trickling in from survivors?”
      ______
      Unless… there are no survivors. If the AotD swarms villages and holdfasts at night, there could be Hardhome-level decimation.
      I can envision the showrunners constructing the invasion or tweaking the timeline so that the arrival of the AotD at WF is a “Gotcha!” moment. Spotting 100,000 zombies on your doorstep at the last minute would have more dramatic impact than a Bran-O-Vision report, or a heads-up from freaked-out survivors.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Eonwe,

      That’s an excellent synopsis of the reasons why the Northern lords – and Jon’s sisters – will be furious with him. (That’s without the added dumbassery of unnecessarily bending the knee after Dany had already pledged to ally with Jon to fight the NK. There’s no rational explanation for that impromptu decision.)

        Quote  Reply

    64. Eonwe,

      Your comment is a good summary of where things stand and what should have been expected.

      I was a bit surprised by the comments that the lords, Arya and Sansa should not be upset. The relationships may improve over time but it was certain that the arrivals would be a problem.

      The Northerners were never going to welcome Daenerys, it makes no sense in the story. Even if they win the war with her help, I do not expect that to change. They may become resigned to her power if the dragons live. But if her dragons die then expect her to face severe difficulties.

        Quote  Reply

    65. The interesting comment for me was the record number of people set on fire, is this during the battle of Winterfell or in whatever happens down South? Presumably at least one dragon is still alive if there is this much fire.

      As for the re-watch I’m currently on S2E7, not sure I’ll make it past season 4 before the premiere but enjoying the old seasons and it’s building the hype so job done.

      P.s I’ve finally caught up with the mammoth amount of articles this week!

        Quote  Reply

    66. Mango:
      Ten Bears,

      Jon was not the brightest bulb in this decision.

      Perhaps it was…JPS? Was that the acronym you have been using?

      I agree this was not the smartest decision at that time but the JPS debate has been raging 😉 I don’t think it he knelt because of his glands but because he truly believes Dany is the best for the North. Jon’s experiences with the undead and Dany give him a very different perspective from that of Sansa, Arya, and the Northern lords, I think.

      Convincing the Northern lords of Dany, well… yikes. That’s going to go over like a lead balloon for reasons people have already mentioned in this thread.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Ten Bears:
      Che,

      The WF entire sequence was a mess. Let us not relive the details.

      The sequence was included by the D&D because it delivered a few items needed for the series:
      (1) It wrapped up Littlefinger’s story
      (2) It showed Sansa, Arya and Bran working together to a major effort to become an “adult” team. Sansa eliminating her last girlhood mentor is a symbol of that.
      (3) As I am interested in the Lannisters – I noted that Sansa, Bran and Arya blamed the rift between the Lannisters and Starks on LF’s schemes. It leaves it open on how the Lannister/Stark relationship will evolve with both Tyrion and Jaime on their way north.

      More tentative on LF’s death and the Vale.
      (i) LF’s death left Sansa as a power with the Lords of the Vale as she is the one with the relationship with Robin Arryn who will still matter to the Vale lords. After centuries with the Aryyns their loyalty to Jon over an Aryyn is still untested. Expect that Jon’s new job as Lord of the Vale to be short-lived.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ten Bears,

      Daenerys finally accepts to fight the Walkers. And Jon “bends” the knee when two episodes before he was “the north isn’t going to accept a southron ruler”.

      I’m the first one who wants to hear from Jon’s mouth why he bent the knee.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Mango:
      The relationships will become even more interesting if Jon dies (again) mid-season 8 leaving the women, Tyrion and Davos to sort their differences out. That is enough to generate that scowl.

      (Yes, Kit was filming for a long time but I do expect the order of finishing filming to mean anything about survival. D&D would be more clever than that.)

      It’s not the order of filming but the locations and directors. I will put in spoiler but for example

      we know Jon makes it back to Kings Landing due to set photos and he was filming in Kings Landing along with Maisie. It doesn’t guarantee much other than both survive the first three episodes

        Quote  Reply

    70. Adrianacandle: I agree this was not the smartest decision at that time but the JPS debate has been raging I don’t think it he knelt because of his glands but because he truly believes Dany is the best for the North. Jon’s experiences with the undead and Dany give him a very different perspective from that of Sansa, Arya, and the Northern lords, I think.

      Convincing the Northern lords of Dany, well… yikes. That’s going to go over like a lead balloon for reasons people have already mentioned in this thread.

      Yes, I think he thought it best. I am just joking on the JPS,lol!

      As a “leader”, he has many factors to consider including the feelings and thoughts of people he serves/leads. (I have big reservations on Jon’s leadership.) He needed to do what was necessary to get help. Especially as a newly selected leader, going over and beyond that when it was offensive to the people he represents….Oye!

        Quote  Reply

    71. Mango,

      I completely agree Jon has so many factors to consider before making such a giant decision like this – like considering how the Northern lords were going to react, plan for that, and – most importantly – talk to Sansa, Arya, Davos, et al. first before he did it! Oh god, definitely! And he knows that the Northern lords will hate this, he’s said so himself to Dany! But for the sake of drama, the show sometimes loves to use lack of communication to get stuff like this. If Jon had just said (as kevin1989 mentioned in another thread), “I want to bend the knee but I got to talk to my people first,” and only done what was necessary to get help (ie. keep it at ‘thank you, Dany’ for now), there wouldn’t nearly be enough drama in that case – not in comparison to this ;D

      And I’m sorry for misunderstanding!! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    72. Adrianacandle: I agree this was not the smartest decision at that time but the JPS debate has been raging 😉 I don’t think it he knelt because of his glands but because he truly believes Dany is the best for the North. Jon’s experiences with the undead and Dany give him a very different perspective from that of Sansa, Arya, and the Northern lords, I think.

      I’m pretty sure the whole “Jon’s penis” remark by Maisie is just a good-natured ribbing on her part with Kit that also involves Sophie. There’s an interview video from season 7 where Kit ponders whether “Sansa is the most irritating character on the show.” In a recent season 8 video where Maisie and Sophie are playing the shag, marry, kill game, both of them name Jon as the person they’d want to kill. 🙂 It’s probably just part of an inside joke they have on set. Unfortunately, in the context in which Maisie said that, it does come off as a little.. puzzling to say the least.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Enharmony1625,

      That’s true!

      In a recent season 8 video where Maisie and Sophie are playing the shag, marry, kill game, both of them name Jon as the person they’d want to kill. 🙂 It’s probably just part of an inside joke they have on set.

      Right, yes! And I think in a season 7 interview, when KH did the betray/marry/kill game himself, he picked Cersei to betray, Dany to marry, and Sansa to kill out of the presented options ;D I really like the good-natured vibe this cast has!

      I just saw the Rolling Stones ‘First Time’ with ST and MW and omg, their dynamic. So cute and sweet and relatable.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Eonwe,

      Likely because when he and his comrades were beyond the wall, surrounded by undead and the WW’s, in comes Dany with three dragons and saves them. He likely realizes that, in spite of the loss of 1 dragon, their best chance against that many undead is with 2 dragons. Not to mention all the armed soldiers she brings with her. He might be in love but he’s not completely daft. The Northern lords don’t have a clue as to what is coming at them.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Dark Sister: I can’t recall a politically powerful woman who was genuinely kind and upfront with Sansa prior to her escaping KL.

      The only people who were genuinely kind and upfront to Sansa, albeit in their own rough ways, were Tyrion and the Hound (the Hound’s last drunken encounter with her in the books notwithstanding). I’ve always been struck by the fact that the only men who protected her in KL were men perceived as monsters by the outside world, and furthermore, men whose physical appearances contrast sharply with her ideal of the golden knight.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Wolfish,

      Yes exactly! I think that was purposefully done on GRRM’s part. The fact that the only politically powerful women in Sansa’s experience have been disingenuous and manipulative is what makes her suspicious of Dany. Although I expect the Army of the Dead’s arrival will put a stop to any potential discord. That or all the siblings will now temper and complement each other. If Sansa gets too suspicious, there’s Arya who will be like “chill, you’re not in KL anymore,” and if Arya gets too murdery (apart from the AotD), Jon and Sansa will be like “chill, you’re not at the House of Black and White anymore.” 😂There’s a reintegration process I think the characters will have to go through.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Che: Well, Coldplay did try…

      Oh! That’s what I imagined! I had forgotten how vivid my imagination could be.

      Dark Sister: there’s Arya who will be like “chill, you’re not in KL anymore,” and if Arya gets too murdery (apart from the AotD), Jon and Sansa will be like “chill, you’re not at the House of Black and White anymore.”

      I would see Arya as taking well to Daenerys, even if Sansa does not. After all, Arya has always stuck up for the downtrodden, and Daenerys’ exploits should certainly appeal to Arya. Arya has zero qualms about dealing out death to those she despises: so, if anything, then Arya would ask “why did you (Daenerys) spare the rest of the slavers?” And although Arya has gone the direction of the commando, I could see her admiring a woman who is the commander-in-chief of a large army that is truly loyal to her (Daenerys).

      Finally, I can see Arya liking Daenerys for personal reasons. Daenerys is the girl that her favorite big brother is bringing home. And this girl has dragons: and I can see Arya being enthralled by (rather than terrified of) the dragons. 🐉

        Quote  Reply

    78. Wimsey,

      Oh yes, I completely agree that Arya will like Dany, and it will most likely prompt her to keep Sansa in check from being overly paranoid. I meant she might be too murdery with others. I’m hoping for an awkward yet humorous scene where the Starks find out she killed the Frey men, and in true Mean Girls fashion someone tells her: “Oh my god Arya, you can’t just go killing people!” But I do wonder if that will come up at all.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Adrianacandle,

      Yes, it’s true, the Northeners don’t know Dany. However, Dany’s reputation precedes her, and not in a positive light. Presumably, the Northerners’ prejudices will align with the narrative in Cersei’s (fact-based) “Mad King’s Daughter” speech in S7e2. [See below]. And that was before Dany incinerated Tarly father and son in S7e5, which would further inflame [pun intended] anti-Targaryen bias: The Northerners are always bringing up how the Mad King roasted Rickard Stark alive while his son Brandon was forced to strangle himself. They reminded Jon about this in S7e2 when he announced his plans to go to Dragonstone. Jon himself snapped at Dany in S7e3 after she snarked that it was unfortunate he’d traveled all the way to Dragonstone to break faith with House Targaryen: “<em<Break faith? Your father burned my grandfather alive. He burned my uncle alive. He would have burned the Seven Kingdoms."

      The Citadel Maesters learned of the Tarley barbecue soon after it happened, though they didn’t tell Sam at the time:

      (from S7e5)
      Maester: “Is he the one whose father and brother were just burned alive?”
      Ebrose: “I’m afraid so.”
      Maester: “Horrible business.”
      Ebrose: “I don’t have the heart to tell him yet. He’s a good lad.”

      It doesn’t appear that Jon didn’t know about this when he made his shipboard abdication. The news is bound to reach WF, if it hasn’t already.

      So, Jon and Dany will have a tough audience to win over. Surely, a report of the Frozen Lake rescue will help rehabilitate Dany’s image. Still, Jon should’ve known by now the importance of good PR, and the necessity of “selling” a controversial proposal to his people before implementing it. (His failure to do so got him murdered once before.)

      That’s why I am hoping that after the sisters’ initial disappointment with Jon and his penis, or the revelation of his parentage, they will be the ones to help Jon sell the allegiance with Dany to the suspicious Northerners.

      (And if any of the lords keep complaining and won’t stop talking, there’s always Sandor….)

      ________________

      S7e2, Cersei’s “Mad King’s Daughter” Speech (Cersei, in throne room, to assembled lords):

      Cersei: “If the Mad King’s daughter takes the Iron Throne, she will destroy the Realm as we know it. Some of you are bannermen of House Tyrell. But House Tyrell is in open rebellion against the Crown. With their help the Mad King’s daughter has ferried an army of savages to our shores. Mindless Unsullied soldiers who will destroy your castles and your holdfasts. Dothraki heathens who will burn your villages to the ground, rape and enslave your women, and butcher your children without a second thought. This is how Olenna Tyrell rewards centuries of service and loyalty.
***
      You all remember the Mad King. You remember the horrors he inflicted upon his people. His daughter is no different. In Essos her brutality is already legendary. She crucified hundreds of noblemen in Slaver’s Bay. And when she grew bored of that, she fed them to her dragons.

It is my solemn duty to protect the people, and I will but I need your help, my Lords. We must stand together, all of us, if we hope to stop her.”

        Quote  Reply

    80. Ten Bears,

      Oh yes, that’s true and that’s a good point. Whatever little they know of Dany at this point (ie. Tarly BBQ), it’s not good (I don’t know what Jon knows of the Tarlys but I’m certain that’ll come up in episode 1 or 2). You’re absolutely right there are many many reasons why the Northern Lords are going to be a tough sell (understatement). And yep! Jon, especially, should be aware of the importance of needing to sell somebody/a group of people on a controversial/unpopular decision (or, at the very least, do more to try to sell it) before going ahead and doing it. I think that’s a major reason why he should have consulted Davos, Sansa, Arya, and Bran before going ahead and kneeling. They could at least offer ideas on what to do, how to do it, and if it needs to be done at that point before anything major decisions are made.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Mango:
      Ten Bears,

      Jon was not the brightest bulb in this decision.

      Perhaps it was…JPS? Was that the acronym you have been using?

      Yes, that’s the acronym I’m using – thanks to Maisie Williams.
      How else to explain bending the knee when he didn’t need to, knowing full well the sh*tstorm it would stir up? Must’ve been JSP. While I don’t particularly relish watching a dumbed-down Jon Snow, I can understand how easy it is to do moronic things when your brain is hijacked by another organ…

      #JSP

        Quote  Reply

    82. Eonwe:
      Ten Bears,

      Daenerys finally accepts to fight the Walkers. And Jon “bends” the knee when two episodes before he was “the north isn’t going to accept a southron ruler”.

      I’m the first one who wants to hear from Jon’s mouth why he bent the knee.

      I don’t think you’ll hear it from his mouth. 😊

        Quote  Reply

    83. Wimsey:
      I would see Arya as taking well to Daenerys, even if Sansa does not.After all, Arya has always stuck up for the downtrodden, and Daenerys’ exploits should certainly appeal to Arya.Arya has zero qualms about dealing out death to those she despises: so, if anything, then Arya would ask “why did you (Daenerys) spare the rest of the slavers?”And although Arya has gone the direction of the commando, I could see her admiring a woman who is the commander-in-chief of a large army that is truly loyal to her (Daenerys).

      Finally, I can see Arya liking Daenerys for personal reasons.Daenerys is the girl that her favorite big brother is bringing home.And this girl has dragons: and I can see Arya being enthralled by (rather than terrified of) the dragons.🐉

      _________
      As non-book reader, it’s my understanding that Arya’s scene with Tywin in S2e7 (link + dialogue below) were show-only creations. I figure, why show Arya fangirling over dragon-riding Targaryen women and gushing about Visenya Targaryen as a “great warrior”, if it didn’t foretell her reaction to dragon-riding Daenerys Targaryen?

      S2e7 Tywin & cupbearer (Arya) in Harrenhal

      at 2:40 – 3:12:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OTOiMQchKw

      ***
      Tywin: “The War of Five Kings, they’re calling it. My legacy will be determined in the coming months. Do you know what legacy means?”
      (Arya shakes her head)
      Tywin: “It’s what you pass down to your children and your children’s children. It’s what remains of you when you’re gone. Harren the Black thought this castle would be his legacy. The greatest fortress ever built. The tallest towers, the strongest walls. The Great Hall had 35 hearths. Thirty-five! Can you imagine? Look at it now. A blasted ruin. Do you know what happened?”
      Arya: “Dragons?”
      Tywin: “Yes. Dragons happened. Harrenhal was built to withstand an attack from the land. A million men could have marched on these walls, and a million men would have been repelled. But an attack from the air with dragon fire? Mmm. Harren and all his sons roasted alive within these walls. Aegon Targaryen changed the rules. That’s why every child alive still knows his name, three hundred years after his death.”
      Arya: “Aegon…and his sisters.”
      Tywin: “Mmm?”
      Arya: “It wasn’t just Aegon riding his dragon. It was Rhaenys and Visenya too.”
      Tywin: “Was it? A student of history, are you?”
      Arya: “Rhaenys rode Meraxes. Visenya rode Vhaegar.”
      Tywin: “I’m sure I knew that when I was a boy.”
      Arya (with awe): “Visenya Targaryen was a great warrior. She had a Valyrian steel sword she called Dark Sister.”
      Tywin: “She’s a heroine of yours I take it?
      (Arya smiles)

      Tywin: “Aren’t most girls more interested in the pretty maidens from the songs? Jonquil with the flowers in her hair?”
      Arya: “Most girls are idiots.”
      (Tywin laughs)
      ****

        Quote  Reply

    84. Ten Bears:
      Adrianacandle,

      S7e2, Cersei’s “Mad King’s Daughter” Speech (Cersei, in throne room, to assembled lords):

      Cersei: “If the Mad King’s daughter takes the Iron Throne, she will destroy the Realm as we know it. Some of you are bannermen of House Tyrell. But House Tyrell is in open rebellion against the Crown. With their help the Mad King’s daughter has ferried an army of savages to our shores. Mindless Unsullied soldiers who will destroy your castles and your holdfasts. Dothraki heathens who will burn your villages to the ground, rape and enslave your women, and butcher your children without a second thought. This is how Olenna Tyrell rewards centuries of service and loyalty.
***
      You all remember the Mad King. You remember the horrors he inflicted upon his people. His daughter is no different. In Essos her brutality is already legendary. She crucified hundreds of noblemen in Slaver’s Bay. And when she grew bored of that, she fed them to her dragons.It is my solemn duty to protect the people, and I will but I need your help, my Lords. We must stand together, all of us, if we hope to stop her.”

      “I mean, sure I blew up the Sept and oodles of innocent people as well as political enemies, with highly unpredictable wildfire, which prompted my son and your king to off himself, but LOOK AT THE MAD KING’S DAUGHTER OVER THERE!!!” *runs away*

        Quote  Reply

    85. Dark Sister:
      Wimsey,

      Oh yes, I completely agree that Arya will like Dany, and it will most likely prompt her to keep Sansa in check from being overly paranoid. I meant she might be too murdery with others. I’m hoping for an awkward yet humorous scene where the Starks find out she killed the Frey men, and in true Mean Girls fashion someone tells her: “Oh my god Arya, you can’t just go killing people!” But I do wonder if that will come up at all.

      I’ve been looking forward to that too! I thought Sansa would figure it out after finding Arya’s facemask collection. Surely, strange stories about a face-changing young girl masquerading as Walder Frey would’ve reached the crossroads inn, and broadcast from there throughout the realm by HPNN (Hot Pie News Network). Most everyone would probably dismiss those stories as embellished or unreliable accounts by Walder’s shocked child wife – but Sansa would know better.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Pigeon:
      “I mean, sure I blew up the Sept and oodles of innocent people as well as political enemies, with highly unpredictable wildfire, which prompted my son and your king to off himself, but LOOK AT THE MAD KING’S DAUGHTER OVER THERE!!!” *runs away*

      🤣 Glass house, Cersei!

      —-

      BTW, a question for any fellow Calgarians, I have been searching the lands of Calgary high and low for the new GoT TV Guide and special issue of Entertainment Weekly – has anybody in Calgary found one? I’ve searched Sunridge Chapters, London Drugs, multiple Shopper’s Drugmarts, Safeways…! Nothing, nothing!

        Quote  Reply

    87. I can understand the Stark sisters being cautious and reluctant to welcome Dany into the family. But the comments the acresses five… Can we imagine Perter Dinklage complaining about Tyrion having a hard time because Dany is thinking with her woman’s parts?

      And the truth is that it’s Dany, not Jon, who is making rushed and uncalcullated deciosions. She went to rescue Jon and co., then she swore to fight againts the dead risking to lose all of her dragons and armies and she asked nothing in return. Sure, Jon can be trusted not to leave his ally in need, if it comes to that; however, if Jon falls in the war, Dany risks to be send away as coldly as Meera Reed. “Thank you, we don’t need you any more,” that’s what Sansa and the Northern Lords may and most probably would say, cause now their complains are exclusively selfish.

      As for Jon bending the knee, sorry, but the alternative Cersei demanded (keeping neutrality in her future war against Dany) would have been much worse and Sansa & the Northern lords wouldn’t have liked that either. Cersei is a sworn enemy of the Starks and she proved to be quite efficient against Dany. So how could Jon accept such a deal knowing that she would come after him? And he couldn’t even lie: such lie would have been way too obvious and would only given Cersei a casus belli. So, Jon couldn’t act any other way and he did the right thing. Had Cersei really been interested in negotiating a reasonable deal, she would have asked for some other guarantees and she could really get them.

      However, the show is staged in such a way that everyone is supposed to be distracted by boat knee-bending and now everything is done to present Sansa’s (and probaly Arya’s) discontent as legit, though it’s not. In general, all of this is just a setup to push Jon to the throne as soon as his true parentage is revealed, but Dany will be left with nothing and that’s not very fair. She should have gone to her island, as Euron suggested, or back to Essos and waited until spring, had she been rational. Fortunately to everyone, she has been thinking with her woman’s parts (heart);)

        Quote  Reply

    88. Pigeon,

      Hahaha, literally! 😂

      Ten Bears,
      Right?! Even Jaime mentioned the destruction of House Frey to Cersei in S7, but we just don’t know what those rumors are. Anyways, I do hope it comes up in S8.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Ten Bears,

      What if our favourite ASNAWP will decide to steel Dany’s dragons along with her face and pretty dresses? Would be a nice strategic move, no? “Dany” incinerates all the enemies of the North, then grants it its independence and sails west of Westeros:) Everyone is happy:)
      No offence to Arya’s fans, but shuch possibility has to be considered at least as an intent.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Adrianacandle,

      I haven’t been looking, but I will now! I’m tempted to head out to my local Shoppers/Safeway right now to check.

      Inga,

      Wow, that’s a.. dark turn of events. Not that long ago, I saw a video prediction by GoT Academy on YouTube where the host thinks that Sansa will in some way manipulate Arya to kill Dany, and the shame of it will send Arya sailing west. I can’t say that I see that as a possibility at all though — it’s just far too tin-foily for my tastes. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    91. Inga,

      I hadn’t considered that scenario. 🤔 That would be a tidy ending.

      I’ve read lots of speculation that Arya would steal Jaime’s face and strangle Cersei, but that’s too far-fetched. Aside from the departure from the gender-specific Valonqar prophecy (requiring a “little brother” to wrap his hands around Cersei’s neck), the main problem I have with it is that the face-peeling “gun” has been fired three times already. (Killing Meryn F*cking Trant; killing Walder Frey; killing the rest of the Frey villains.) Doing it again will make it a cheap gimmick. Besides, I don’t want to watch every scene in S8 and always wonder: “hey, is [character X] really Arya?”

      I’d prefer to see ASNAWP show off her fighting skills with her VS dagger + Needle. Plus, if the interviews are any indication, Arya

      will be trying to regain the human, emotional aspects of her personality

      . Methodical, FM-style executions don’t seem to fit with

      the Arya-as-combatant

      we’re supposed to see in S8.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Adrianacandle:

      ***
      BTW, a question for any fellow Calgarians, I have been searching the lands of Calgary high and low for the new GoT TV Guide and special issue of Entertainment Weekly – has anybody in Calgary found one? I’ve searched Sunridge Chapters, London Drugs, multiple Shopper’s Drugmarts, Safeways…! Nothing, nothing!

      I’m not in Calgary. Wish I were. I’m in the U.S. I haven’t seen the EW special issue or GoT TV Guide on newsstands or in stores. I ordered the EW special issue/Arya cover online from Magazine.Store on March 4th, and I’m still waiting for it. I called the company last week and a rep said it was mailed out on March 21.

      I should’ve channeled Arya and responded: “You’re a liar!”

        Quote  Reply

    93. Ten Bears,

      I don’t think that will happen either but just for the sake of tinfoil we can’t rule that out. The very least, I can imagine Sansa comming up with such a suggestion at some dark moment after Jon’s true parentage revelation, if Dany refuses to step aside. And Arya is fascinated by dragons and might be willing to ride one and she loves Jon… Again, the very least, she might be tempted. But if that happens, I don’t think she will give in: there’s Gendry after all.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Inga,

      It was Dany who pushed for the truce as a requisite before going north. Ser Jorah, Jon and cia went to the wight hunt because Dany was Ok with Tyrion´s stupid plan. Risked her dragons? Sure after sending men into a suicide mission and after receiveng a raven with the message “we are screwed! a little help please!”

      Dany could have chosen to going north, forget Cersei (with her armies decimated already) face this threat to the whole realm and then finish her bussiness south. And probably with a better reputation among the north and vale.

      Instead she still went along with this truce. Even after Viseryon was killed, even after witnessing the army of zombies, even after seeing the Night King “one shot one kill” Viserion like it was everyday job she sails to King´s Landing. She could have gone to White Harbour and then to WF. But no. She went to KL. And even in the parlay she said to Jon that she couldn´t ignore how Cersei was gonna claim back what she won as soon a she goes north.

      Daenerys wanted a stalemate before aiding the north. She had a choice. Going north and risking losing the south. Going south and risking the white walkers anhilitaing Westeros.

      “Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

      Win the throne and save the kingdom or save the kingdom and win the throne. That was her choice. She wanted both. She was selfish. I´m going north while Cersei stays quiet in the south. That was Daenerys choice.

      And about Dany´s losing her claim when Jon´s parentage is revealed. She should ask herself. “I´m losing my claim to the IT? Or am I gaining a blood relative? A family member who isn´t Viserys.”

      Dany´s might lose that stupid iron chair. But what she stands to gain in the end is more precious. A family.

      She can go the Starks way (family first) or the Lannisters (ambition and selfish desire for power).

      Because as the books point out, Dany´s wants the IT as her home, but every time she thinks of home she pictures a house´s red door.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Enharmony1625,

      Tell me if you find it! It seems Ten Bears can’t find it either in the U.S. but I’m curious to see if you spot it during your travels. I’m going to search downtown this week!

      Ten Bears,

      Crap, that’s a long time to wait. I was thinking about ordering it from the Magazine Store myself – but you ordered it on March 4 and was told it was sent out on March 21, over two weeks later. Oooh boy. Channel your inner Arya! Channel her!

        Quote  Reply

    96. ygritte,

      I think there is plenty of room for drama- but that particular point of focus seems… beneath it all. The real drama, in my opinion, should be centered around jons parentage reveal, the Lannister trifecta, and maybe a bit of northern lord’s griping. I don’t want to see Sansa getting shitty about Dany, and Jon having bent the knee, and what that means for status and position in a hierarchy that really has little relevance at this point. They all know what’s coming, and that’s where their focus should be. I want to see more from Sansa. Give us a reason to root for her, and respect her as a leader. She knows what’s on the way, and she should realize the stakes. She should know that Dany and her dragons are pretty much the north’s only hope for survival. Griping about Jon and Dany, about this “foreign queen”… it just seems stupid, and, in my opinion, would be lazy, meaningless drama for the sake of drama.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Eonwe,

      Objectively speaking, forgetting about Cersei would have been a bad idea, cause she wouldn’t forget. The best solution to Dany would have been melting the Red Keep to the foundation stones in a surprise attack (wouldn’t have taken more than a day) and then going north. But once again, it was Tyrion who caime up with this “We won’t attack King’s Landing” bla-bla-bla to save his siblings (the blocade he offered would have resulted in many more civilian casualties than any targeted attack on the Red Keep, but he didn’t care). It’s a pitty that Dany swallowed it same as Jon, but that’s not the point I want to make. The point is that for some reason people want Dany to act completely selfishly, whereas every one else (especially Sansa and the Northern lords) is entitled to be as egoistic, as one can be.
      One way or another, there won’t be any major problem resuting from Jon’s knee bending: the trailer showed us the northern soldiers and the KOTV fighting at Winterfell, so no-one is going to leave. And whinging is not a big deal.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Che,

      Thank you for responding way more eloquently than I could have! I couldn’t agree more, on all fronts. The Sansa/Arya dynamic last season was pretty bad; probably for me, worse than #wighthunt.

      It made me really doubt the storyteller’s handle on how to manage so many characters, their unique motivations and potentially conflicting interests, and all while staying true to the character’s individual personal story arcs. This, for sure, is a massive undertaking, and for the most part I think they have brought justice to the show (tho, as ten bears will attest- maybe just not so for littlefinger himself)

      Hey, do you know any good spots in London to catch a viewing? Any pubs that show GoT? I’ll be there for episode 2.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Inga,

      Forgetting about Cersei while you deal with the Walkers. Once the threat is defeated Dany then can present a more solid case as queen. Because the King or Queen of Westeros is also the “Protector of the Realm”. That’s one of Martin’s points about what a king must be:

      “Tommen has been taught that kingship is his right. X knows that kingship is his duty, that a king must put his people first, and live and rule for them.”

      As for Tyrion not wanting to attack KL. Do you really want to use Dragon fire in that city? Is resting beneath a whole cache of wildfire. Tyrion suspects about setting a chain reaction. We saw what happened to Baelor’s Sept. The last thing Daenerys needs is to fire this Chekov’s Gun.

      One million souls live in KL. That wasn’t put on a whim. The aftermath of the battle of season 7, whith the field left charred and in ashes wasn’t put on a whim. That was the display of one dragon deployed. Think about what three or two dragons can do.

      Tyrion wanted to avoid a return to Aerys. Varys guilt was triggered by the burning of the Tarlys.

      Tyrion loyalty wasn’t shaken until episode four. When he watched his brother charging a dragon. When he watched Lannisters soldiers burning alive without any means of defending against a dragon.

      Watching savers burn was nothing for Tyrion. Watching men from the Westerlands burn alive truly shaken him. Because maybe in another life those men would have been His men as lord of the Westerlands.

      That’s when Tyrion realized “what I brought towards my family, towards my countrymen”.

      It happened mid season. Not from the very beginning.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Inga:
      I can understand the Stark sisters being cautious and reluctant to welcome Dany into the family. But the comments the acresses five… Can we imagine Perter Dinklage complaining about Tyrion having a hard time because Dany is thinking with her woman’s parts?

      And the truth is that it’s Dany, not Jon, who is making rushed and uncalcullated deciosions. She went to rescue Jon and co., then she swore to fight againts the dead risking to lose all of her dragons and armies and she asked nothing in return. Sure, Jon can be trusted not to leave his ally in need, if it comes to that; however, if Jon falls in the war, Dany risks to be send away as coldly as Meera Reed. “Thank you, we don’t need you any more,” that’s what Sansa and the Northern Lords may and most probably would say, cause now their complains are exclusively selfish.

      As for Jon bending the knee, sorry, but the alternative Cersei demanded (keeping neutrality in her future war against Dany) would have been much worse and Sansa & the Northern lords wouldn’t have liked that either. Cersei is a sworn enemy of the Starks and she proved to be quite efficient against Dany. So how could Jon accept such a deal knowing that she would come after him? And he couldn’t even lie: such lie would have been way too obvious and would only given Cersei a casus belli. So, Jon couldn’t act any other way and he did the right thing. Had Cersei really been interested in negotiating a reasonable deal, she would have asked for some other guarantees and she could really get them.

      However, the show is staged in such a way that everyone is supposed to be distracted by boat knee-bending and now everything is done to present Sansa’s (and probaly Arya’s) discontent as legit, though it’s not. In general, all of this is just a setup to push Jon to the throne as soon as his true parentage is revealed, but Dany will be left with nothing and that’s not very fair. She should have gone to her island, as Euron suggested, or back to Essos and waited until spring, had she been rational. Fortunately to everyone, she has been thinking with her woman’s parts (heart);)

      Really great points here, Inga!

      I loved how Dany chose to fight in Essos. She used her assets judiciously and avoided loss of life. This is the first time Dany will engage in this kind of warfare where the two sides face each other on the battlefield. A lot of people will die and I don’t like it one bit that she got roped into this suicide mission. Surely there was a better way.

      I like your idea of burning the Red Keep.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Eonwe,

      Uh, the fact that her intervention saved his team (if not necessarily him), maybe? Not to mention that he was probably suffering hypothermia.

      I think too many people here are taking things too literally, and I think the cast is having a laugh at their expense.

        Quote  Reply

    102. So Foxtel owns the rights to GOT in Australia and they have an interesting season 8 poster that is a major season 8 spoiler – for those who have seen the filming stuff for episode 5 it confirms what type of fire it is – not gonna spoil it but for those who like spoilers google Foxtel game of thrones season 8 poster
      At first I thought it was fan made till I saw Foxtel advertise it

        Quote  Reply

    103. Elessar,

      And that´s reason for bending the knee? We are taking about something with serious political consequences.

      Robb Stark beheaded lord Karstark for murdering war prisoners and lost a huge part of his army. Renly´s Stormlands men turncloak as soon as he died. And they did it again when Stannis lost at Blackwater. Daenerys faced revolt in Meereen when she ordered to execute a former slave who killed a former master.

      So Jon just bending the knee because Daenerys saved him is just laughable. Try to say that to Lyanna Mormont. It makes him a Ned 2.0 or Robb 2.0.

      We have 54 and 58 minutes in the first two episodes. With the focus now in WF and KL these issues are gonna be adressed. Even famous episode 3 isn´t gonna be an hour and twenty minutes of spinning swords. Sapochnik said that he was aiming for something like Blackwater.

      What we got in Blackwater. Davos and his son, Shae saying how the men fighting are not gonna come back and Sansa answering how Joffrey is gonna survive. Varys and Tyrion talking pre battle. All those priceless scenes involving Cersei educating Sansa.

      Anon,

      She sacked Astapor when she acquired the unsullied. And she burned the fleet and her dothraki anihilated the slavers army.

      Counting the battle against the Lannisters that´s three times she used medieval warfare.

      Now she is gonna fight against an army who doesn´t eat, doesn´t sleep, doesn´t rest, doesn´t need to do leadership checks and recruits it´s enemies corpses. And they too have now a dragon.

      What I want to see is winter´s effects on the southrons and essosis. I want to see General Winter wreaking havok amongst the vale Knights, the dothraki and unsullied. That would be interesting.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Eonwe:
      Inga,

      It was Dany who pushed for the truce as a requisite before going north. Ser Jorah, Jon and cia went to the wight hunt because Dany was Ok with Tyrion´s stupid plan. Risked her dragons? Sure after sending men into a suicide mission and after receiveng a raven with the message “we are screwed! a little help please!”

      Dany could have chosen to going north, forget Cersei (with her armies decimated already) face this threat to the whole realm and then finish her bussiness south. And probably with a better reputation among the north and vale.

      Instead she still went along with this truce. Even after Viseryon was killed, even after witnessing the army of zombies, even after seeing the Night King “one shot one kill” Viserion like it was everyday job she sails to King´s Landing. She could have gone to White Harbour and then to WF. But no. She went to KL. And even in the parlay she said to Jon that she couldn´t ignore how Cersei was gonna claim back what she won as soon a she goes north.

      Daenerys wanted a stalemate before aiding the north. She had a choice. Going north and risking losing the south. Going south and risking the white walkers anhilitaing Westeros.

      “Lord Seaworth is a man of humble birth, but he reminded me of my duty, when all I could think of was my rights. I had the cart before the horse, Davos said. I was trying to win the throne to save the kingdom, when I should have been trying to save the kingdom to win the throne.”

      Win the throne and save the kingdom or save the kingdom and win the throne. That was her choice. She wanted both. She was selfish. I´m going north while Cersei stays quiet in the south. That was Daenerys choice.

      And about Dany´s losing her claim when Jon´s parentage is revealed. She should ask herself. “I´m losing my claim to the IT? Or am I gaining a blood relative? A family member who isn´t Viserys.”

      Dany´s might lose that stupid iron chair. But what she stands to gain in the end is more precious. A family.

      She can go the Starks way (family first) or the Lannisters (ambition and selfish desire for power).

      Because as the books point out, Dany´s wants the IT as her home, but every time she thinks of home she pictures a house´s red door.

      Selfish? It was the intelligent thing to do and also, emotionally, considering what it cost Daenerys personally to get that wight, the right choice emotionally. In her own words: “My dragon died so that we could be here. If it’s all for nothing, then he died for nothing.” Expecting Daenerys to let Viserion die meaninglessly and calling her selfish for wanting his death to be for a purpose is pretty harsh. After that ridiculous wight hunt plan, to abandon that final stage in KL, when they finally have a wight in captivity and a dragon has died, would have been pretty stupid and nonsensical.

      Then there is Daenerys’ entire journey/struggle to get to Westeros with her armies. Expecting her to just march north without any assurances that she won’t lose the foothold she has established in the south is also isn’t fair to her. She has been to hell and back to be where she is; the fact that she took a brief detour to attempt to find a diplomatic solution to her conundrum (after sacrificing her dragon to that cause) is far from selfish.

      I’m binge rewatching GOT in preparation for the 14th and I’ve just watched season three over the last few days. It has rekindled a lot of Dany (and Arya) love for me. I’ve always liked both, but I’d forgotten how great they were earlier on. Arya’s House of Black and White arc turned me off her character a bit and Daenery’s harder personality (and less Mhysa like character) later on made me go off her slightly too. It’s also made me cry for Sansa several times and I am feeling way more sympathetic and caring to her than I usually do (I haven’t rewatched from start to finish since the run up to season 6 and her season 6 arc made me wary of her character thereafter too). Totally spiralled off topic there, sorry, was just trying to explain that I have a soft spot for Dany right now and I feel calling her selfish is unfair to her character and the situation.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Anon: I loved how Dany chose to fight in Essos. She used her assets judiciously and avoided loss of life. This is the first time Dany will engage in this kind of warfare where the two sides face each other on the battlefield. A lot of people will die and I don’t like it one bit that she got roped into this suicide mission. Surely there was a better w

      I see your point. But Danny at least has a vested interest. She wants to rule the Seven Kingdoms and she can’t really do that if everyone in them are killed by ice zombies.

      The people that really got the short end of the stick (at least from their own viewpoint) are the Dothraki. Their lifestyle of murder, pillaging, rape and selling people into slavery is abhorrent, but from their point of view they were pretty much doing well. They either took what they wanted or cities and nations gave them money to be left alone. Now they are in the freezing far north of a foreign land fighting undead and hard to kill (at least without the proper equipment) creatures.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m glad they don’t devote screen time to Dothraki misgivings. But I wouldn’t mind if one day some skilled writer came up with a Rosencrantz & Guildenstern are dead kind of riff on two of them mulling over how they got where they did.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Che,

      In the end is personal opinions. No matter how many times they praise Ronaldo I stand by my opinion that Messi is a far better player.

      So you are loving the females portrayal back when they had the books as source material.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Dolorous Methuselah,

      This is a good point. I have previously pointed out the same thing – Daenerys is not doing anyone a favour in fighting the NK. If she wants to rule Westeros then her greatest enemy/competitor is not the Lannister clan – her greatest competitor is the AOTD.

      As for the Dothraki, lol! They thought she looked like a winner that could guarantee lots of pillaging and raping. Well, here goes!

        Quote  Reply

    108. Eonwe,

      That is because Messi IS by far the better player. This is beyond question.

      Granted CrisRonaldo trains hard and by his tremendous effort does really well. But for natural talent – Messi by ten country miles.

      The English press praise CR because he played for MU and they still love him.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Mango,

      That’s what she promised them back in season 6. Now they are freezing their braids against an enemy who doesn’t care about dothraki hordes in an open field.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Eonwe: In the end is personal opinions. No matter how many times they praise Ronaldo I stand by my opinion that Messi is a far better player.

      Not to get too off topic and onto soccer, but yeah, I’d go with Messi myself. For sure, on skills he is much more fun to watch. Ronaldo does have the great speed, strength and athleticism, though.

      To keep this at least a little on topic – though the Dothraki got kind of screwed, I guess the Unsullied would have been fighting someone else’s (other than their own) wars regardless. And Greyworm even gets to kiss Missandi so I guess it’s all worthwhile for him.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Eonwe,

      • You’re on fire! As Mango said: “A series of excellent posts.”

      • You noted that “Robb Stark beheaded lord Karstark for murdering war prisoners and lost a huge part of his army.”
      That could be another indication that Dany will suffer repercussions for executing prisoners of war, i.e., Randyll and Dickon Tarly. (Plus, isn’t giving a “kneel or fry” ultimatum to POWs bad PR, and inconsistent with the whole “breaking the wheel”, “making the world a better place” campaign slogans?)

        Quote  Reply

    112. Eonwe,

      Right? If I’m a Dothraki, I’ve got to be thinking to myself, “F*ck. This isn’t what I signed up for.”

      🎵 “I wanna go home. I wanna go home.
      This is the worst trip, I’ve ever been on.”🎶

        Quote  Reply

    113. Eonwe: She sacked Astapor when she acquired the unsullied. And she burned the fleet and her dothraki anihilated the slavers army.

      Counting the battle against the Lannisters that´s three times she used medieval warfare.

      Now she is gonna fight against an army who doesn´t eat, doesn´t sleep, doesn´t rest, doesn´t need to do leadership checks and recruits it´s enemies corpses. And they too have now a dragon.

      What I want to see is winter´s effects on the southrons and essosis. I want to see General Winter wreaking havok amongst the vale Knights, the dothraki and unsullied. That would be interesting.

      Astapor was clever – an ambush, essentially. She swamped the Lannister forces in another ambush when they were not on guard. She used overwhelming force and the dragon as air support… again, very clever.

      The way the forces are facing each other on the battlefield in the trailer gives me a sick feeling. I think we’ll see piles of bodies like at BOTB and I never liked the plan of throwing more bodies at the problem.

      Is it three times that Jon has faced the walkers and had to make a desperate retreat? More men will not solve this problem.

      It looks like the show decided not to emphasize the harshness of winter. It would have been a nightmare to film, no doubt. From the pictures, it doesn’t even look that cold, Varys, for example, is wearing the same number of layers. It could be that the writers will let the WW’s embody the harshness of winter and not focus too much on the actual weather.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Will it actually matter that Jon bent the knee to Daenerys when the truth comes out? Daenerys is all about restoring the Targaryens to power but under her house succession rules, she owes allegiance to Jon/Aegon not the other way around. Whatever vows Jon has ever taken, whatever rights, ambitions he has given up for those vows/pledges, they are not really legitimate because he didn’t really know what he was giving up.

      The interesting part here is how Daenerys will chose to react to the news. Will she honor her duty and her beloved brother or will she be unable to let go of her ambition. In the end, I imagine she ends up queen because Jon choses not to be king but what I want to see is if she was willing to “bend the knee” of her own free will because then that will close her arc in a positive way.

      As for the North achieving independence, realistically I think that will largely be influenced or decided by Jon. He holds the key. Ironically, while he knew it or not, by hiding a king under the snow, Ned was the ultimate player in the game of thrones.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Eonwe,

      OK, we can’t be sure about Tyrion’s motivations: they could have been unconscious. However, blocade would have been much more disastrous to the common folk of King’s Landing, than any dragon fire. Do you realise how blocade looks? People starve, children die first, the survivors start eating them, then the stronger ones start hunting weaker ones – for food, while the political leaderchip enjoys rum muffins, – this is not some bloody fiction, these are true memories of the survivors of the Leningrade Blocade. And hardly anyone can expect Cersei to be less ruthless than Stallin. So, there was no good heart in Tyrion’s plan, especially as Dany could easily fly to the Red Keep and toast Cersei ringht in her bedroom in a surpsice attack.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Danny: Will it actually matter that Jon bent the knee to Daenerys when the truth comes out? Daenerys is all about restoring the Targaryens to power but under her house succession rules, she owes allegiance to Jon/Aegon not the other way around.

      Maybe now she wants a Targ restoration, but not when she made her ‘breaking the wheel’ speech to Tyrion. At that time, Dany was certain she couldn’t have children and that she would be the last Targaryen. She wasn’t aware of any other living Targs who could succeed her. So, she fully intended to create some other type of government.

      I’m excited to see how her attitude changes now that she is, presumably, pregnant. Then she’ll get the news about Jon. And there are rumours that there is a third Targ yet to be revealed.

      There is a reversal in fortunes between the Starks and Targaryens. At the start of the series, the Stark house is full of sons, while the Targs are in permanent decline. Here we are at the end and that has almost completely switched… unless Bran is able and willing to father children.

        Quote  Reply

    117. …oh, and another thing.

      When Jon finds out that Dany is his aunt, he might refuse the Targaryen name and identity to protect their child from the stigma of incest. But would that mean he’d stay a Snow, or would a new queen Daenerys sign papers changing his name to Stark? But then that child’s name would not be Targaryen, another lie. It will be worse if the child is a boy. The key might lie with a hypothesized third Targaryen yet to be revealed.

      This too would qualify as “bittersweet”.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Danny,

      I think Ned would have thought Jon was a Sand. I don’t think Lyanna told Ned that she had a legitimate marriage. Bran didn’t even know until Sam told him and then he was able to zoom in and see the marriage. I don’t think Ned would have put it together that Roberts Rebellion wasn’t necessary.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Anon,

      They did it with Stannis and his troops. They can do it again. And the White Walkers bring the cold like we saw in Hard home.

      Winterfell is built above great springs and the water is pumped through it’s walls by pipes. That makes Winterfell warm even in winter.

      Inga,

      Tyrion is operating under the assumption of what Jaime told him. There are wildfire caches beneath all of King’s Landing. Even the Red Keep.

      Dragon Fire can melt even stone walls. So the risk of setting alight the city is very real in Tyrion’s eyes. Remember his face when he used it against Stannis fleet. It was pure horror at what he unleashed.

      Anon,

      Bittersweet is the outcome of the Dance of Dragons, the first Blackfyre Rebellion or Robert’ s Rebellion.

      A third secret Targ introduced in the endgame felts like a cheap trick.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Eonwe,

      How do I use the spoiler code again – I tried code but it didn’t hide the spoiler

      Google game of thrones season 8 poster
      It’s the poster that says ONE LAST TIME – just found another of the night king – so there’s 1 for episode 3 and 1 for episode 5 that Foxtel is using

        Quote  Reply

    121. Eonwe:
      Tron79,

      Lyanna told Ned that Jon’s name is Aegon Targaryen.

      Yeah, you’re right. I was thinking that Lyanna said Targaryen after I hit the post button, but I was also thinking that Ned probably still didn’t put it all together even if she said Targaryen. We didn’t hear Lyanna tell Ned she had a legitimate marriage. But I suppose she would have said Sand then..so maybe he did realize it. She did say Targaryen.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Bittersweet ending is the show concluding the story before George can. You spend twenty so years working on some thing and then some one else sweeps in and finishes it for you.
      I was reflecting on s7 story line and how quickly Dany lost her Dornish and Tyrell allies and how that translates to the books. It made me think that in the books the Dornish and Tyrells will form an alliance with fake Aegon against the crown lands and Cersei – that Victarion will quickly be defeated by Euron who will then ally with the crown lands when Dany rebuffs him (She chooses violence) leaving Dany to form an alliance with Jon who has the support of the Vale and the Riverlands. Jon will want her support in defeating the threat from beyond the wall before aiding her take the south. So basicly the same war of people (rather than the supernatural) that broke out at the begining of the story ends it.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Am I alone in thinking that we are being massively misdirected by the actors and that actually, there won’t be time for much political fallout from Jon’s decision to pledge the north to Daenerys without consulting with any of his kin or advisors? In the time before the AOTD arrive at Winterfell in episode 3, I imagine a lot of time will be devoted to Jon’s big parentage reveal, which ought to take precedent in terms of what type of character interactions with Jon take place – I’m sure it will be linked, he’s pledged the north to a Targaryen queen and now it transpires he himself is a Targaryen – but I just doubt that as far as Jon is concerned, the emphasis of his conflicts with other characters (and himself) will have a focus on his questionable decision making in The Dragons and the Wolf and will focus more on the ramifications of his true identity.

      My personal predictions are that episode one will be tense between Jon and his sisters, Jon and his lords, Dany and the Stark women (and the northern court) and that by the end of it, a few Northern Lords will abandon the cause and return home (i.e. Glover and his ilk) and that Jon and Sansa+Arya will not meet eye to eye over what he has done. At the end of episode one, Bran drops the parentage-bomb, which then leads to episode 2’s drama being largely over that as news of the AOTD escapades reaches Winterfell (and probably the inevitable death and massacre of the lords who abandoned Jon). I think that news will come in the form of Tormund, Edd and Beric arriving after finding castles abandoned after being wightified (that shot of them walking into a darkened hall) – they may also come across rogue wights and WW wandering the countryside on their way.

      This is all supposition of course and likely not going to transpire on the screen, but it just doesn’t seem like there will be much time for huge amounts of drama relating to Jon’s hasty decision. The sheer number of character reunions due to take place will also take up lots of time.
      1. Arya + Jon
      2. Arya + Gendry
      3. Arya + Sandor
      ETA: Jon + Bran
      4. Sansa + Sandor
      5. Sansa + Tyrion
      7. Jorah + Lyanna
      And also, I hadn’t considered Jaime’s arrival as after he has arrived there will also be:
      8. Jaime + Brienne
      9. Jaime + Jon
      10. Jaime + Tyrion
      11. Jaime + Bran
      12. Jaime + Dany (in terms of his having killed her father)

      If they are going to do these character moments justice, and I feel they will for a lot of them (sadly probably not all), then how much infighting will they have time for when we also factor in Jon’s big reveal (which, having been set up since the very beginning of ASOIAF, truly ought to be more important than his ceding the north to Dany too hastily).

        Quote  Reply

    124. Che: I’m sure it will be linked, he’s pledged the north to a Targaryen queen and now it transpires he himself is a Targaryen

      That would be some juicy intel for anyone trying to impugn Jon’s motives.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Eonwe:
      Anon,

      A Targ in bed with another Targ. Nobody is gonna like it in Westeros.

      Makes the problem devastating for Jon – without even considering the sex. What has happened is that a Targ gave the North to another Targ.

      He is not Ned’s Starks son – so on what basis is he to be King/Warden of the North?. This news should make Sansa Queen of the North and put her in direct conflict with Daenerys if Sansa does not wish to bend the knee. Burnt Sansa?

      It does not make him King of Westeros either. The Targ succession was ended by Ned. He can re-take the throne if he goes to KL and defeats Cersei. Daenerys has the military power to do so – but she will have to kill Jon is she is to be ruling monarch. If she marries Jon, he rules as King and she is wife Queen like Cersei was with Bobby.

      They have a few matters to work through so this will be complicated.

        Quote  Reply

    126. Eonwe:
      Anon,

      A Targ in bed with another Targ. Nobody is gonna like it in Westeros.

      Targs are known for this in Westeros. They’re very open about marrying each other so everybody knows that this is how they roll. Still, there is a slight possibility of stigma, especially if used as a pretext. In other words, people(read Sansa) don’t really care, they just don’t want Jon & Dany and incest is a convenient reason to reject them.

      I suspect that contempt for Cersei/Jaime/their children had more to do with the conditions in the realm, rather than incest per se.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Anon,

      I am not sure why you think Qhono would run away with Sansa. Perhaps he would take up his role as partner to the Queen of the North – sleeping indoors for a change. Then the Dothraki would fight the Unsullied on an open field. The dragons would be spooked and fly off squawking in surprise.

      Anyway, why would Sansa give Qhono a look? She has had enough raping and pillaging from Ramsey.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Mango: Daenerys is not doing anyone a favour in fighting the NK.

      And Daenerys would be doing everyone far fewer favors if she focused on the Lannisters first! The issue here is (or was): what will Daenerys recognize as being her greatest interest? After all, the story last season was about what people do when faced with wars on multiple fronts. As Londo Mollari famously stated, ” Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts.” So, the issue was never would Daenerys (or Jon or Arya or Tyrion) focus on one front: but on which front would a given protagonist focus?

      We do not know yet what the Series 8 story will be. Oh, sure: it will be another aspect of the demon on the right shoulder arguing with the demon on the left shoulder: you’re damned with either choice, but one of the them will lead to a less odious circle of hell. But what that aspect will be, we do not know. My bet is that the big reveals about the Nights King and possibly R’hllor will provide that; the former is the biggest gun left on the wall, and the latter is a possible one.)

        Quote  Reply

    129. Dark Sister,

      Woops and I forgot to note Hannah Murray as well. She’s on a sidebar next to the more seasoned Jonathan Pryce so I missed her. Relegated to the margins again!

        Quote  Reply

    130. Mango:
      Anon,

      I am not sure why you think Qhono would run away with Sansa. Perhaps he would take up his role as partner to the Queen of the North – sleeping indoors for a change. Then the Dothraki would fight the Unsullied on an open field. The dragons would be spooked and fly off squawking in surprise.

      Anyway, why would Sansa give Qhono a look? She has had enough raping and pillaging from Ramsey.

      She has always wanted to leave Winterfell. She loves tall, dashing men. Their eyes meet across the courtyard. She blushes and looks away. She makes her way to the kitchens and over to the cauldron of stew – dishing it up herself – and takes it back to where she saw him. She tries to say the Dothraki word for ‘stew’ but fails and he laughs..

        Quote  Reply

    131. Che,

      “The sheer number of character reunions due to take place will also take up lots of time.”

      ____________
      They can save time by whittling down the number of character reunions from the 12 on your list to 5:

      1. Arya + Jon
      2. Arya + Gendry
      3. Arya + Sandor*
      4. Sansa + Sandor*
      9. Jaime + Jon

      (Just kidding.)

      * PS In all of the WF promo shots and teaser snippets of Team Targ arriving in WF, I don’t think we’ve seen Sandor, have we?

      As much as Book!Arya and Book!Jon (apparently) think of each other all the time, in the show Jon hasn’t really given Arya a second thought, and their only scene together was in S1e2.

      On the other hand, Arya spent around half of S3 and all of S4 traveling with Sandor; and even during her detour to Braavos the show included conspicuous callbacks to the Hound during Arya’s Game of Faces in S5 with Jaqen 2.0 (“I hated him!”; “A Girl lies to me, to the Many-Faced God,..to herself”), and with the Waif in S6 (“Tell me about the Hound”).

      Sansa also had more “quality time” with Sandor in S1 and S2, e.g., Sandor rescuing her during the KL riot; Sansa trying to thank him; Sandor stopping her from pushing Joffrey off the footbridge; Sandor offering to take her home during the Battle of the Blackwater.

      For that reason alone, at least for me, the sisters’ reunions with Sandor will have more potential emotional resonance than their reunions with Jon. Add in the additional factor that Arya had left Sandor for dead, and the sisters’ reactions to seeing the Hound, alive and well but surly as always, amble into WF could be memorable – and humorous.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Che: Am I alone in thinking that we are being massively misdirected by the actors and that actually, there won’t be time for much political fallout from Jon’s decision to pledge the north to Daenerys without consulting with any of his kin or advisors?

      No, you are not alone! That was last year’s story. They will know soon that the Nights King is coming, and possibly before Daenerys even arrives. They also will soon know that the North’s recent grudge against the Targaryens was based on a (major!) misunderstanding. The latter almost certainly will be a critical issue to this story: if Robert’s Rebellion was fought on a misunderstanding, then is there any chance that the current was is also based on a misunderstanding? And that in turn leads to the question: just why is the NK attacking?

      By the same reasoning, I do not expect there to be much time devoted to the reunions that you list. Yes, the fans want a 30 minute scene where Jon & Arya discuss everything that has happened in the near-decade since they separated: but that will not happen. Even the book (if it ever is published) will reduce that to a one line summary. We got more of it with Jon & Sansa because it was more critical to that story. Unless a particular reunion deals with the same sort of inner-conflict that the current story deals, then do not expect it to get much screen time.

      (To this end, I suspect that Jaime’s reunion with people might get the most air-time; the fact that so much of what has motivated Jaime’s actions was badly misunderstood at the time might be used as setup, if that is the story!)

        Quote  Reply

    133. Anon,

      Yeah, but then Sansa will learn that he’s 100 years old and start eying Legolas instead….

      Besides, which Dothraki on the left is Qhono, anyway?

        Quote  Reply

    134. HBO OnDemand bumped the following Extras:

      Bear Pit
      Season 2 Trailer
      House Baratheon
      Recap (Season 1)
      Minor Houses (Tully, Tyrell, Frey, Arryn, Greyjoy)
      Lannister/Baratheon

        Quote  Reply

    135. Rygritte:
      HBO OnDemand bumped the following Extras:

      Bear Pit
      Season 2 Trailer
      House Baratheon
      Recap (Season 1)
      Minor Houses (Tully, Tyrell, Frey, Arryn, Greyjoy)
      Lannister/Baratheon

      What?

        Quote  Reply

    136. Rygritte:
      HBO OnDemand bumped the following Extras:

      Bear Pit
      Season 2 Trailer
      House Baratheon
      Recap (Season 1)
      Minor Houses (Tully, Tyrell, Frey, Arryn, Greyjoy)
      Lannister/Baratheon

      Why? Are they running out of hard drive space?

        Quote  Reply

    137. Wimsey:
      I would see Arya as taking well to Daenerys, even if Sansa does not. After all, Arya has always stuck up for the downtrodden, and Daenerys’ exploits should certainly appeal to Arya. Arya has zero qualms about dealing out death to those she despises…
      ***
      Finally, I can see Arya liking Daenerys for personal reasons. Daenerys is the girl that her favorite big brother is bringing home.And this girl has dragons: and I can see Arya being enthralled by (rather than terrified of) the dragons.🐉”

      _____

      I’d like to see a one-on-one between Dany and Arya. Something like…

      Arya: “Rumor has it you flame-broiled Randyll Tarly and his son.”
      Dany: “Yes, I did, but…”
      Arya: “I prefer baking. Seals in the flavor better.”
      Dany: “What?

        Quote  Reply

    138. Wimsey:
      Anon,

      Yeah, but then Sansa will learn that he’s 100 years old and start eying Legolas instead….

      Besides, which Dothraki on the left is Qhono, anyway?

      …he asks her in broken common tongue if she’d like to see his arakh. “What’s an arakh?”, she asks.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Jack Bauer 24: The “promo” looks like it ended up being this MGM resorts thing. Some sort of dragon projection that’s supposed to run starting tonight after the Veep and Barry premieres through the 13th. The day before the premiere https://twitter.com/MGMResortsIntl/status/1112152054984855554

      Thanks Jack. I hadn’t heard much buzz about it anymore so I wondered. I actually am not surprised D&D didn’t want to give away any more spoilers with another full trailer. I’m actually glad in some ways i won’t know more than I already know just from the interviews.

        Quote  Reply

    140. Ten Bears:
      Che,
      As much as Book!Arya and Book!Jon (apparently) think of each other all the time, in the show Jon hasn’t really given Arya a second thought, and their only scene together was in S1e2.

      I think the show could have done more to show their bond but I think this is also due to the show not being able to give us access to a character’s thoughts unless they had VOs which would come across sort of cheesy 😉

      I think we miss aspects of the Stark kids’ bond because we can’t read their thoughts on TV. The Stark kids rarely say each other’s names aloud in the books unless they’re together (which, aside from Bran and Rickon, isn’t for long) but they think of one another quite a bit, especially Jon and Arya. I think another thing we’re missing out on because we can’t read the characters’ thoughts are the bonds Sansa has with her siblings – she is sort of the sibling who is the most distant from the others in some ways because she doesn’t spend a ton of time with them (aside from Arya being forced to do sewing, embroidery, lessons with the septa, etc.) and her interests were different. However, nonetheless, the thoughts of the Stark kids and the memories they have of one another and Sansa show the love they have between them. For instance, with Sansa, Bran remember how Sansa would comfort him against nightmares; her snowball fights with Arya and how when Sansa fell one time, Arya ran back to check to see if she was ok; her memory of Robb hugging her before she left for KL; Jon remembering how Sansa taught him how to talk to girls; Sansa praying for each of her family members; Arya promising that if she got to see Sansa again, she’ll beg her pardons and kiss her like “a proper lady”, them all remember Sansa’s soft singing, dreaminess, etc.).

      I think we miss out quite a bit of that in a TV medium and especially of Jon and Arya’s bond in the show. I think it’d be a bit difficult to sort of slip these thoughts and memories into spoken conversation – not impossible, they could have done more on that front, but I think much of that falls into the limitations of a television medium.

        Quote  Reply

    141. It’s been a really great discussion to follow and many points are being brought up by all sides! I find myself agreeing a lot with Wimsey and Che but I think everybody is bringing up great points that I haven’t even considered, which is a great food for thought 🙂

      Dark Sister,

      Thanks for this!

      Enharmony1625,

      Thanks for telling me! If I find anything, I’ll report back here!

        Quote  Reply

    142. Dark Sister:
      Sunday’s paper came with a GoT cover story! Here’s the link:

      https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/31/how-game-of-thrones-changed-my-life-season-8-interviews-stars

      Carice van Houten, John Bradley, Jonathan Pryce, Gemma Whelan, Iain Glen, Jacob Anderson, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Kristian Nairn, and Bella Ramsey are interviewed.

      Weird looking cover. Poor Isaac needs a security guard to get around campus.

      Isaac said “Bran’s story arc is fantastic,” “He’s a disabled kid in the harshest environment, yet he doesn’t just survive, he triumphs. It’s such a great message. He’s not traditionally glamorous, he’s not an action hero, but he could save the world.”

        Quote  Reply

    143. Ten Bears: I’d like to see a one-on-one between Dany and Arya. Something like…

      Arya: “Rumor has it you flame-broiled Randyll Tarly and his son.”
      Dany: “Yes, I did, but…”
      Arya: “I prefer baking. Seals in the flavor better.”
      Dany: “What?

      If you ever collect these one-shots on a blog somewhere, let me know 🤣Between yours and Patrick’s snippets, WoTW is the best place to come ;D

        Quote  Reply

    144. Adrianacandle: I think we miss out quite a bit of that in a TV medium and especially of Jon and Arya’s bond in the show.

      I would not worry about this too much. The Jon & Sansa reunion was very effective, and not only did the two characters never interact on the show, but they almost never (if ever) think about each other in the books, either.

      This is one case where TV/movies do not really have to lay groundwork through character-development: everyone understands family bonds. Yes, some book-fans will complain that TV-viewers do not know about the particular bond between Jon & Arya: but this is a story, not a documentary! Unless the final story is about “choosing favorites among family members,” it just will not be important to the story.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Ten Bears,

      Question for book readers + show watchers:
      Did the show change the manner of the Mad King’s execution of Rickard Stark and his son Brandon Stark to more closely parallel Dany’s roasting of Randyll Tarly father and his son Dickon?

      In my 3/30/19, 2:38 pm comment (about the “Mad King’s Daughter” narrative) I quoted Jon in S7e3:

      Jon himself snapped at Dany in S7e3 after she snarked that it was unfortunate he’d traveled all the way to Dragonstone to break faith with House Targaryen: “Break faith? Your father burned my grandfather alive. He burned my uncle alive. He would have burned the Seven Kingdoms.”

      I thought that in the books, the Mad King burned Rickard Stark alive, while Brandon Stark strangled himself trying to reach a sword to save his father, or something like that.

      When Jon complained to Dany that her father “burned my uncle alive,” did that contradict the books – or any of the accounts earlier in the show?

        Quote  Reply

    146. Ten Bears: When Jon complained to Dany that her father “burned my uncle alive,” did that contradict the books – or any of the accounts earlier in the show?

      I seem to remember a conversation between Ned & Selmy in the first season that described what happened that was pretty much the same as the book. However, I might be misremembering: I have not watched Season 1 in a few years.

      As for Jon’s statement, I missed that: but, then, it is also the sort of “rounding error” that people do all of the time, so I would not have paid it any mind.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Wimsey: I would not worry about this too much.The Jon & Sansa reunion was very effective, and not only did the two characters never interact on the show, but they almost never (if ever) think about each other in the books, either.

      This is one case where TV/movies do not really have to lay groundwork through character-development: everyone understands family bonds.Yes, some book-fans will complain that TV-viewers do not know about the particular bond between Jon & Arya: but this is a story, not a documentary!Unless the final story is about “choosing favorites among family members,” it just will not be important to the story.

      Yeah, you have a point! And yes, Sansa and Jon were the most distant of the Stark siblings and while I remember Jon and Sansa thinking of one another at least several times, they weren’t as close as the others and if Jon and Sansa can get that gorgeous reunion, the Jon-Arya reunion should have me crying forever and replaying it non-stop 😉

      There is a 12-step program to cure you of that malady…..

      Refer me!! 😉

      Ten Bears:
      I thought that in the books, the Mad King burned Rickard Stark alive, while Brandon Stark strangled himself trying to reach a sword to save his father, or something like that.

      I think that is what happened in the books. I don’t have them on me at the moment so I could be wrong here. I don’t know if the show changed it so that both Rickard and Brandon being roasted would parallel Dany roasting Tarlys, that never occurred to me before, but I hope not because I feel there were some differences. Dany gave Randall a choice between bending the knee and death, refusing to take any prisoners from the losing side of the battle, and Randall chose death. Dickon freely chooses to join Randall. In the case of Rickard and Brandon, I remember that when Rickard came to King’s Landing after being summoned by the Mad King when Brandon challenged Rhaegar for Lyanna’s disappearance, Rickard demanded a trial by combat. The Mad King chooses “fire” as his champion and burned Rickard alive with wildfire. Meanwhile, Brandon is there with a noose around his neck and strangled himself trying to rescue his father.

      Although, the Westerosi and the North may just see these situations as the same because it’s a Targaryen burning a father and son alive.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Wimsey: I seem to remember a conversation between Ned & Selmy in the first season that described what happened that was pretty much the same as the book.However, I might be misremembering: I have not watched Season 1 in a few years.

      I’ve got to see Season 1 again to see if I can catch that! I wasn’t paying 100% attention when I was rewatching recently but I recall something along those lines.

      Che: I’m binge rewatching GOT in preparation for the 14th and I’ve just watched season three over the last few days. It has rekindled a lot of Dany (and Arya) love for me. I’ve always liked both, but I’d forgotten how great they were earlier on. Arya’s House of Black and White arc turned me off her character a bit and Daenery’s harder personality (and less Mhysa like character) later on made me go off her slightly too. It’s also made me cry for Sansa several times and I am feeling way more sympathetic and caring to her than I usually do (I haven’t rewatched from start to finish since the run up to season 6 and her season 6 arc made me wary of her character thereafter too). Totally spiralled off topic there, sorry, was just trying to explain that I have a soft spot for Dany right now and I feel calling her selfish is unfair to her character and the situation.

      I’ve been doing that too!! My aunt has just started GoT so I’ve been watching alongside her! I had also forgotten how much I just love the relationship between Brienne and Pod.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Tron79: Thanks Jack. I hadn’t heard much buzz about it anymore so I wondered.I actually am not surprised D&D didn’t want to give away any more spoilers with another full trailer. I’m actually glad in some ways i won’t know more than I already know just from the interviews.

      No problem. Yeah I mean at this point the premiere is Sunday after next (14 days!) and the Red Carpet is Wednesday, so we’re in the home stretch.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Ten Bears,

      I have the books with me now and if you’re interested, this is the passage where Jaime recounts to Catelyn the deaths of Brandon and Rickard (ACOK, Catelyn VII). Aerys really drew Rickard’s literal roasting out, all the while goading Brandon into strangling himself by dangling the possibility of freeing his father in front of him:

      “He was on his way to Riverrun when . . .” Strange, how telling it still made [Catelyn’s] throat grow tight, after all these years. “. . . when he heard about Lyanna, and went to King’s Landing instead. It was a rash thing to do.” [Catelyn] remembered how her own father had raged when the news had been brought to Riverrun. The gallant fool, was what he called Brandon.

      Jaime poured the last half cup of wine. “He rode into the Red Keep with a few companions, shouting for Prince Rhaegar to come out and die. But Rhaegar wasn’t there. Aerys sent his guards to arrest them all for plotting his son’s murder. The others were lords’ sons too, it seems to me.”

      “Ethan Glover was Brandon’s squire,” Catelyn said. “He was the only one to survive. The others were Jeffory Mallister, Kyle Royce, and Elbert Arryn, Jon Arryn’s nephew and heir.” It was queer how she still remembered the names, after so many years. “Aerys accused them of treason and summoned their fathers to court to answer the charge, with the sons as hostages. When they came, he had them murdered without trial. Fathers and sons both.”

      “There were trials. Of a sort. Lord Rickard demanded trial by combat, and the king granted the request. Stark armored himself as for battle, thinking to duel one of the Kingsguard. Me, perhaps. Instead they took him to the throne room and suspended him from the rafters while two of Aerys’s pyromancers kindled a blaze beneath him. The king told him that fire was the champion of House Targaryen. So all Lord Rickard needed to do to prove himself innocent of treason was . . . well, not burn.

      “When the fire was blazing, Brandon was brought in. His hands were chained behind his back, and around his neck was a wet leathern cord attached to a device the king had brought from Tyrosh. His legs were left free, though, and his longsword was set down just beyond his reach.

      “The pyromancers roasted Lord Rickard slowly, banking and fanning that fire carefully to get a nice even heat. His cloak caught first, and then his surcoat, and soon he wore nothing but metal and ashes. Next he would start to cook, Aerys promised . . . unless his son could free him. Brandon tried, but the more he struggled, the tighter the cord constricted around his throat. In the end he strangled himself.

      “As for Lord Rickard, the steel of his breastplate turned cherry-red before the end, and his gold melted off his spurs and dripped down into the fire. I stood at the foot of the Iron Throne in my white armor and white cloak, filling my head with thoughts of Cersei. After, Gerold Hightower himself took me aside and said to me, ‘You swore a vow to guard the king, not to judge him.’ That was the White Bull, loyal to the end and a better man than me, all agree.”

        Quote  Reply

    151. Dark Sister:
      Sunday’s paper came with a GoT cover story! Here’s the link:

      https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/mar/31/how-game-of-thrones-changed-my-life-season-8-interviews-stars

      Carice van Houten, John Bradley, Jonathan Pryce, Gemma Whelan, Iain Glen, Jacob Anderson, Isaac Hempstead Wright, Kristian Nairn, and Bella Ramsey are interviewed.

      Also, Iain’s story about his daughter made me that more fond of the GoT crew. They really have all seemed like a huge family to each other.

        Quote  Reply

    152. Pigeon,

      Yes! I thought that was so sweet too! Totally agree that after working together for so long, the cast and crew really do become a family. It’s so nice his daughter has that memory now.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Tron79: Thanks Jack. I hadn’t heard much buzz about it anymore so I wondered.I actually am not surprised D&D didn’t want to give away any more spoilers with another full trailer. I’m actually glad in some ways i won’t know more than I already know just from the interviews.

      As an update, the person who knew the first trailers date, time and contents are saying there might be some sort of countdown starting tonight to possibly a second trailer. They said their source hasn’t seen it yet, so can’t confirm 100% like they did with the first trailer.

      I think it would be weird to have a countdown to a second trailer. A countdown to the first trailer would have made more sense, but we shall see. Take this one with a grain of salt, but she was 100% on point about the first trailer dropping at 11am est March 5th and also said the trailer would open with Arya, which it did.

        Quote  Reply

    154. Jack Bauer 24,

      Thanks! Although I know to take this with a grain of salt, her being on point with the first one makes me excited for what may show up this week 😉 (No plane trip this time around to interfere!)

        Quote  Reply

    155. ….Qhono takes hold of her hand and brings it to his lips, biting into the leather with his teeth to pull off the glove and let it fall to the ground. He covers her hand with his own curving each of her fingers around the hilt of his arakh. It was warm from the heat of his own hand. “Ar-akh”, he said. Sansa could not breathe… “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come…”, she breathed out and rushed away from him into the shadows…

        Quote  Reply

    156. Ten Bears,

      If Arya had wanted Jaime dead she would have offed him when she saw him at the Twins. I love the fact that she didn’t; she didn’t hold the fact that he’s a Lannister against him any more than she held the fact that Sheeran & Co. were Lannister soldiers against them. She really does judge people at face value (no pun intended); while that’s simplistic in certain instances, in others it’s utterly refreshing.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Ten Bears,

      As of today (March 31) I haven’t received mine either. But I did buy the EW with Bran on the cover at Rite-Aid last week. 🙂

      (For the record, I live in the boonies. Or what passes for boonies in the Lower 48.)

        Quote  Reply

    158. Jack Bauer 24,

      Yeah, it would be weird to have a countdown to a second trailer (unless it was a one day hour by hour countdown or something), especially with only 13 days to go (in a couple of hours).

        Quote  Reply

    159. Anon:
      ….Qhono takes hold of her hand and brings it to his lips, biting into the leather with his teeth to pull off the glove and let it fall to the ground.He covers her hand with his own curving each of her fingers around the hilt of his arakh. It was warm from the heat of his own hand.“Ar-akh”, he said. Sansa could not breathe…“I wish you good fortune in the wars to come…”, she breathed out and rushed away from him into the shadows…

      Sansa rushed over to Brienne’s room, knocked softly by urgently on the door. “Oh, Lady Brienne, Qhono, that fiend is trying to rape and pillage me, please, please help me” sobbed Sansa. Brienne, still in armour, was sharpening Oathkeeper on her pocket whetstone. Brienne’s blue eyes darkened in anger. She picked up her glistening sword, stepped out of the room and headed out to Qhono. “If it is rape you want, try me” she said quietly, her pale face barely visible in the moonlight. As Qhono looked for his arakh, she lifted Oathkeeper and the blade whistled through the cold night air.

      And kids, this is why Qhono started his career with the Dothraki and ended his career with the Unsullied.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Tron79:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Yeah, it would be weird to have a countdown to a second trailer (unless it was a one day hour by hour countdown or something), especially with only 13 days to go (in a couple of hours).

      She was right again! New 30 second video just aired on HBO with a couple new clips mixed with some from the first trailer.

        Quote  Reply

    161. Mango: Sansa rushed over to Brienne’s room, knocked softly by urgently on the door. “Oh, Lady Brienne, Qhono, that fiend is trying to rape and pillage me, please, please help me” sobbed Sansa. Brienne, still in armour, was sharpening Oathkeeper on her pocket whetstone. Brienne’s blue eyes darkened in anger. She picked up her glistening sword, stepped out of the room and headed out to Qhono. “If it is rape you want, try me” she said quietly, her pale face barely visible in the moonlight. As Qhono looked for his arakh, she lifted Oathkeeper and the blade whistled through the cold night air.

      And kids, this is why Qhono started his career with the Dothraki and ended his career with the Unsullied.

      IT’S AN ARAKH, NOT A ****!!!! Get you mind out of the gutter, Mango!

        Quote  Reply

    162. Adrianacandle,

      Yes to all of this.

      But I’m still super-peeved about the direwolves not having nearly as much significance as the dragons, which totally disrupts the balance of the story.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Spot on with the new teaser trailer last night Jack! Any news on the premiere title? Must surely be today/tomorrow with the red carpet on Wednesday night.

        Quote  Reply

    164. Damn came to post the link to the guardian story – far far too late! Roared at the middle aged lady asking Iain Glen to “say it for her”, get it girl.
      I’d have loved to but didn’t dare when I saw him, as he was telling off some children in a pub and my husband and I were just too *ohmigoditsreallyhimlistentohisvoice* about the whole thing.

        Quote  Reply

    165. Wolfish:
      Adrianacandle,
      But I’m still super-peeved about the direwolves not having nearly as much significance as the dragons, which totally disrupts the balance of the story.

      Yeah. I really wish the direwolves had more of a role on-screen. In recent seasons, we really haven’t seen much of Nymeria in 702 and nothing of Ghost since 603. I hope we get the direwolves back in season 8. While I can sympathize with how much more difficult it is to render furry direwolves in comparison to fur-free dragons (my one course in 3D animation turned me into a ball of angry tears), I really really hope we see Ghost and Nymeria (and hopefully, not just for a death scene). There’s so much about them – the magic and mystery of House Stark and the Old Gods they represent, as well as the connections they have to their respective Stark kid – that adds. I really love the show but I think we’re missed out on aspects of this. At the same time, I know both visual and literature mediums have their advantages and limitation. It still kind of sucks though.

      Enharmony1625,

      OMG thank-you thank-you!!!!!! That’ll be my first stop on Wednesday!!!

        Quote  Reply

    166. OK then – I live in a bit of London where I seem to come across GoT actors a lot.

      We were out having Sunday roast in a pub over run with feral children, most of the parents were letting them run free but not our good Knight. He was attempting to herd the little buggers into a contained area. I heard the Voice and wordlessly communicated the following
      *Oh my dog Steve, it’s Ser Jorah, it’s him!*
      My husband Steve wordlessly *BE COOL BE COOL BE COOL*
      Me *squelaing noises*
      Then Ser Jorah said “Sorry about this lot” and gave Hurley my Labrador an ear scatch!

      Other spots include Yara Greyjoy pushing her baby round the park and my personal favourite Ser Allister Thorne and a friend with a stepladder up a tree in the park to retrieve a dog frizbee 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    167. Enharmony1625,

      Thanks for checking!! Gives me hope! If not, there are always a million Starbucks around to comfort me 😉

      But seriously, thank you so much for checking!!

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *