Turner talks “traumatic” season 5 for Sansa, and Game of Thrones is the best of 2014

Recently at the British Independent Film Awards, actress Sophie Turner chatted on the red carpet with HeyUGuys and hinted at what’s in store for her character in season 5.

When asked about scenes for the upcoming season, Sophie shares there’s one scene that she’s done that was “super, super traumatic” and the type of scene that was “really kind of horrible for everyone to be on set and watch.” She goes on to explain how those are her favorite scenes, as an actress.

It’s December, which means Game of Thrones is continuing its annual trend of appearing on Best-Of-the-Year lists all over. Today brings a few more additions to the crop:

  • Game of Thrones was among the ten television shows honored by the American Film Institute as the best of the year for 2014. The programs are chosen by a jury that includes critics, actors, and creators such as Breaking Bad‘s Vince Gilligan. The selected television shows are chosen for being “culturally and artistically representative of the year’s most significant achievements.”
  • HitFix‘s Dan Fienberg chose the show for his top ten of 2014. The critic says “The Mountain and the Viper” is his favorite episode of the show’s run, and cites the Brienne and the Hound fight, Tyrion’s trial, the Royal Wedding, and the “epic action orgy” of “The Watchers on the Wall” as his reasons for the show appearing on his list.
  • The Washington Post calls Game of Thrones “consistently brilliant at what it’s doing” in The best TV of 2014, and declares that the show has “entered the realm of permanence on the list of great TV shows of the early 21st century, up there with ‘Breaking Bad,’ ‘The Sopranos’ and ‘The Wire.'”
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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

209 Comments

  1. I imagine whatever it is… it is total invention by D&D and will not appear in Winds of Winter. Much like Talisa’s death at the Red Wedding.

  2. I sense she may be hyping it up a bit but if I was going to speculate I reckon Littlefinger may attempt to rape her. Can’t say I’d be a fan of it as doesn’t fit his character at all. Just hope they don’t go off the farm without WoW to give them a framework.

  3. GeekFurious,

    So what if it is? It’s a different medium and that’s their right as storytellers.

    Frankly, I can’t wait to see more ‘invented for the show’ plots, if for nothing than to see the book purists moan and whine about it how different it is from the book series.

  4. GeekFurious:
    I imagine whatever it is… it is total invention by D&D and will not appear in Winds of Winter. Much like Talisa’s death at the Red Wedding.

    I wouldn’t be so sure–might be the “controversial” scene Vulture teased once upon a time:

    http://www.vulture.com/2013/04/george-rr-martin-fans-have-three-meals-and-drinks.html

    Martin later sent [Elio] the Manuscript in the Box, asking him to fact-check it for him — because a slip like a change in eye color will make fans salivate with imposter theories, when sometimes it’s just a mistake. Garcia now performs this function for all the books, but it’s completely unofficial: “It’s not like I’m paid or anything.” And yes, that means he’s read parts of book six, The Winds of Winter — including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial.

  5. TheTouchOfFrost,

    They don’t have TWOW to give them a framework… but they DO have TWOW’s framework to give them a framework, which is more than enough. They don’t have any reason to do anything crazy; by now, especially in some story lines, they are only following the plot very roughly anyway, so the fact they only have a framework for TWOW shouldn’t interfere with the quality too much.

    I don’t think it’ll be a violent rape by Littlefinger. I just don’t think that’s where her character is going, and I don’t see that as Baelish’s MO. It just isn’t. Now, may she seduce him and have sex with him? I see that as a far more likely possibility, and creepy in many ways: she’s underage; she isn’t attracted to him like he is to her, so she’d just be doing it to survive (a form of coercion like any other*); and it’s a generally fucked up relationship.

    *This reminds me of those who say Dany wasn’t raped by Drogo in the books because she physically enjoyed it. Those people don’t know what rape or consent is. It’s difficult to argue a 13-year old can give consent to a grown man anyway, but considering it was AN ARRANGED MARRIAGE, considering she was sold off as a slave… of course there was no consent. It was rape. Some people think “rape” only counts if it’s violent, which is an absolutely horrible notion.

    GeekFurious,

    A Sansa chapter cut from ADWD has been widely speculated to be the same that Elio Garcia read and thought would be very controversial. Traumatic, controversial… it may be the same thing.

    Also, do you really think you’ll go through Season 5 with not a single Sansa spoiler for you? Obviously they won’t advance her storyline too much because it needs to be roughly in sync with everything else for the big finish, but they won’t give her a whole season of faffing about. Her early TWOW material just has to be included.

  6. My theory is that it is a version of the Marillon plotline but somewhat tweaked due to the changes previously made. It has struck me that sometimes the show doen’t so much invent things as postpone them.

    As a case in point, Hodor being brutally beaten by the Night Watch deserters is obviously not in them books, since that plot didn’t happen; however, Hodor was brutally beaten by Theon’s men in the books but was not beaten by them in the show).

    Also thinking of the “Inkeeper’s Daughter” scene, which due to changes in plotting was signifcantly toned down from the books.

    In some ways I hope this is it, because otherwise, people are going to be angrily debating whether D&D made it up until if/when TWOW comes out.

  7. “The Washington Post calls Game of Thrones “consistently brilliant at what it’s doing” in The best TV of 2014, and declares that the show has “entered the realm of permanence on the list of great TV shows of the early 21st century, up there with ‘Breaking Bad,’ ‘The Sopranos’ and ‘The Wire.’”

    I just hope that Season 5 will be good enough to keep track with them

  8. Isabelle: I wouldn’t be so sure–might be the “controversial” scene Vulture teased once upon a time:

    http://www.vulture.com/2013/04/george-rr-martin-fans-have-three-meals-and-drinks.html

    Vulture seriously overhyped that quote, which was that “it may be controversial in certain corners of the fandom”. Just to give you the idea of what level of shocking this could be referring to, this happens to be the same wording (‘may be controversial in certain corners of the fandom’) Elio used for Brienne’s line in “And Now His Watch Is Ended” – “You sound like a bloody woman”. He’s also clarified later that the controversy is not necessarily about Sansa herself or something she does, but may have something to do with a new (?) character (it wasn’t completely clear since those subsequent comments were from a Spanish language radio interview that someone posted an English transcript from, something may have been lost in translation).

    Frankly, I can’t think of almost anything from Sansa’s arc so far that isn’t controversial in some corner of fandom. Or a lot of the stuff from the series in general. I wouldn’t bet on it being such a huge shock/outrage as some people expect, especially based on the way it’s been hyped.

  9. Maybe it’s that controversial chapter…

    But I’m not expecting that to be honest, I know there’s a good probability of being a new filler.

  10. Jordan:

    In some ways I hope this is it, because otherwise, people are going to be angrily debating whether D&D made it up until if/when TWOW comes out.

    We will debate angrily about all the new things anyway, until tWoW comes out.

  11. Today in “Will Sansa Catch a Break?” we now have recent words that she will not, in fact, catch a break. :/

  12. Annara Snow,

    You raise some great points, especially that you “can’t think of almost anything from Sansa’s arc so far that isn’t controversial in some corner of fandom.” But the overarching point is that we’re getting into WoW! Am on tenterhooks because god knows what’s coming!

    And to play devil’s advocate, if this “controversial” scene is the same one that Sophie is calling “traumatic,” perhaps there is something to the fuss, even if some people have already posited it. On first view, it may leave a particularly strong impression. We’ll just have to wait and see what happens.

  13. The Hound,

    Ruined, huh? And I’m sure there are those who agree with you. The majority doesn’t. It’s fine to offer an opinion, but when you state your personal opinion as the basis for an argument (that we shouldn’t get too hyped), it kinda suggests you are putting forward your personal opinion as a purely objective fact. Which it isn’t.

    Actually, Season 4 was not only the most popular season yet, but also the most critically well received according to the most popular meta-review site. So the hype-machine apparently didn’t hurt the Season for most people as it did for you. I don’t want to speak in your behalf, but what you might have meant is that Season 4 was the season that diverged the most from the books, which you didn’t like… but book fans are a minority of the show watchers, and book fans who adhere religiously to the text are an even smaller minority. All in all, it’s not fair to say Season 4 was a disappointment —that’s a mighty fine personal opinion, don’t get me wrong, but it doesn’t have the basis in fact necessary for the argument you were trying to make about over-hyping, and in fact for any other argument. It looked like you were assuming we all agreed with your starting position, that Season 4 was ruined, but… most people don’t.

    Ironborn,

    We won’t get a whole season of filler for her. Some people are blind to the fact the show will surpass the books, with silly conspiracy theories like “GRRM is secretly writing the last two books simultaneously and he will release them before anything is spoiled in the show” or, for that matter, “Sansa’s whole published source material has already been adapted, but in Season 5 nothing at all will be spoiled from TWOW; it will all be filler.” No, it won’t. I agree that most of it probably will be filler, but I very much expect some of her early TWOW material to seep in Season 5, at least around the end.

  14. Luka Nieto:
    The Hound,

    Ruined, huh? And I’m sure there are those who agree with you. The majority doesn’t. It’s fine to offer an opinion, but when you state your personal opinion as the basis for an argument (that we shouldn’t get too hyped), it kinda implies you are putting forward your personal opinion as a purely objective fact. Which it isn’t.

    In fact, Season 4 was not only the most popular season yet, but also the most critically well received according to the most popular meta-review site. It was also the one that diverged the most from the books… but book fans are a minority of the show watchers, and book fans who adhere religiously to the text are an even smaller minority.

    Ironborn,

    We won’t get a whole season of filler for her. Some people are blind to the fact the show will surpass the books, with silly conspiracy theories like “GRRM is secretly writing the last two books simultaneously and he will release them before anything is spoiled in the show” or, for that matter, “Sansa’s whole published source material has already been adapted, but in Season 5 nothing at all will be spoiled from TWOW; it will all be filler.” No, it won’t. I agree that most of it probably will be filler, but I very much expect some of her early TWOW material to seep in Season 5, at least around the end.

    Personally, I have no problems with TWOW spoilers – actually, I can’t wait for them. Bring them on! I’d much rather have “spoilers”, i.e. the show being faithful to whatever is going to be happening with the characters in the future books, than some random filler (though I’m sure there will be some of that, too). I think that Sansa probably has a big storyline coming up and that they’ve decided to start it early so they would have enough time for it, what with show going to 7 seasons. Unlike with Bran, they could have stretched her material more in season 4 if they wanted to, and it’s unlikely that an entire season will be pure filler. Jon and Bran had a made-up plot in season 4, but their arc was still about hitting the major beat/climax of their respective arcs from ASOS/ADWD in Bran’s case.

  15. The Hound,

    You literally just cited the 3 most popular episodes this season. Episode 9 won “Best episode” in this very site’s awards poll, and 8 and 10 were the second and third most popular. In IMDB, they are on the TOP 5 of the season, alongside episodes 2 and 6. What you mean is you didn’t like them, or that small parts of the episodes were controversial in certain parts of the fandom… that is, small parts of the fandom, and a minuscule part of the actual audience.

    Annara Snow,

    I agree completely.

    I think Sansa has a big story ahead, and that’s why they wrapped up the Lord Declarant business before it even properly began. They wanted to have time for something. And we will soon see what it is.

  16. Sansagirlagain:
    GeekFurious,

    So what if it is? It’s a different medium and that’s their right as storytellers.

    Frankly, I can’t wait to see more ‘invented for the show’ plots, if for nothing than to see the book purists moan and whine about it how different it is from the book series.

    It’s always fun when someone gets defensive about a comment that has no agenda.

    P.S.

    Since I may need to spell it out for you… I’m definitely NOT a book purist.

  17. The amount of hype for Season 4 was INSANE, don’t you remember ?

    Now it’s close to 0% on the hypemeter, a lot of people don’t care at all about Season 5. (book readers obviously)
    And I think it’s the best way to not be disappointed.

  18. winnie,

    At the time the 2013 Vulture article came out quoting Elio Garcia’s words about the Sansa chapter, I instantly thought: “Huh, bet Sweet Robin wishes the Snow Castle slap to be the worst thing Sansa did to him!” My money is on her causing an accidental (?) death.

  19. The Hound,

    You literally just cited the 3 most popular episodes this season. Episode 9 won “Best episode” in this very site’s awards poll, and 8 and 10 were the second and third most popular. In IMDB, they are on the TOP 5 of the season, alongside episodes 2 and 6. What you mean is you didn’t like them, or that small parts of the episodes were controversial in certain parts of the fandom… that is, small parts of the fandom, and a minuscule part of the actual audience.

    The Hound,

    With that I agree. Hype is bad. At best it’s harmless, at worst it can result in disappointment. Still, I don’t agree with your idea that Season 4 was ruined by the hype for most people, even less so if you pinpoint the last three episodes, which were the most popular. Also, most people don’t watch every trailer, every interview, every everything, like many of us do. Most people go into a new season pretty much unspoiled, bar a few two-minute trailers.

    Yeah, these trailers create hype, but not about anything specific. They don’t mislead. Most of the disappointment comes from book readers who were expecting something specific and it did not happen (LSH, anyone?), not from show watchers, who may enjoy an episode or a season more than another, but don’t have concrete expectations about which to be disappointed.

  20. winnie,

    I think Sansa’s smackdown of SweetRobin during the snow castle scene may be foreshadowing another aggressive/defensive action by Sansa, with dire results….possibly on SR again or on a determined libidinous Vale lord. She will relive her almost rape in KL but this time the Hound will not be there to save her…but she has learned plenty from that experience and others to defend herself this time . Btw, I love that sharp “needle” necklace she is now wearing. 🙂

    This is total TWoW territory. The text is leading toward this situation and we will be spoiled.

  21. Luka Nieto,

    of course they were the most popular, the source material in it was by far the best of the whole saga.

    Most book readers were expecting the three best episodes in a row of any show ever and it was cleary not the case. It was “just” very good

  22. The Hound,

    Every book reader was expecting the Jesus of visual dramatic media in those last three episodes, really? Every book reader was so unfathomably unreasonable? In my experience, book readers tend to be much more down-to-earth than you are implying there. Most of them didn’t expect those episodes to be “the best episodes in a row of any show ever”, which is a ridiculous statement if there ever was one. Were you expecting that? Then say you were expecting that, not “every book reader.” The fact they were voted as the best episodes in a fansite full of book readers means most people weren’t as disappointed as you were.

    You seem to be arguing that people voted for those episodes because the source material was so good… despite the fact they were so disappointed by how that source material was adapted. That’s doesn’t make any sense. The more something is loved, the more a poor portrayal of it will be hated. If people were as disappointed as you say, they would never have voted for them just because the source material was so good. In fact, it would be the other way around!

  23. Annara Snow:
    He’s also clarified later that the controversy is not necessarily about Sansa herself or something she does, but may have something to do with a new (?) character (it wasn’t completely clear since those subsequent comments were from a Spanish language radio interview that someone posted an English transcript from, something may have been lost in translation).

    Never knew he restated his words to make that quote milder, in a different occasion. It could be then a different situation than the one Sophie talks about. I automatically linked the two instances. I still think though that traumatic, horrible and crappy (all words she used in the interview) can refer to her doing harm to someone else though probably not intentionally or if so perhaps in self defense.

  24. The Hound,

    Not really… nope. They were the most voted here and in many other sites, so the people you are talking about are the minority, not “most” people.

  25. Luka Nieto,

    Those are fanboys who thinks Game of Thrones is the greatest show ever because that’s the only good show they have watched. My friends are unsullied and they thought the finale was underwhelming. Even if it’s just an opinion, it means that the episode wasn’t as good as expected.

    They even said that Tywin’s death was a joke.

    the end of aSoS was way better than the show version, chapter closed.

  26. Possibly means GRRM’s going to release a TWOW Sansa chapter before season 5 airs, vis-a-vis the ‘Mercy’ chapter before season 4. Whatever it takes to prevent D&D from revealing his plot-points before he does.

  27. The Hound,

    If you say so, it must be true!

    Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the end of ASOS is better than the end of Season 4 (or the parts adapted from it and not AFFC or ADWD, anyway), but I happen to understand that’s just my opinion, not the Word of God, not “chapter closed.” But do go on presenting your opinion as an uncontested fact or as something that everybody agrees with. That will pan out wonderfully for you, I’m sure.

    Schrödinger’s Cat,

    In a way, I hope you are right.

  28. TheTouchOfFrost:
    I sense she may be hyping it up a bit but if I was going to speculate I reckon Littlefinger may attempt to rape her. Can’t say I’d be a fan of it as doesn’t fit his character at all. Just hope they don’t go off the farm without WoW to give them a framework.

    With the scrutiny that the Newsroom is getting for it’s latest rape episode. I really hope D&D steer as far away from that topic as they possibly can. They already have 1 strike on them in regards to rape

  29. Turncloak,

    Just one strike?

    But if the tables are turned toward the “victim’s” favor during the scene, it may have a very unique, empowering effect. I don’t think they will shy away from that situation at all.

  30. Turncloak,
    Shock value is what D&D like the most, unfortunately.
    The only way to sell this product since the Red Wedding is “this season will have omgz moments and a lot of deaths”

    y’all know it’s true

  31. Luka Nieto,
    Turncloak,

    Let’s hope so. I find where they’ve strayed too far from the source material to be my least favourite/weakest bits of the show.
    You’ve reminded me why I hope it’s not a rape scene. All we’ll get is yet more sanctimonious overanalysis of sexual assault and certain people feeling the need to write essays reminding everyone why rape is so wrong ( Do they seriously think that the vast majority of people condone it?!). Wonder why whenever any character dies or is tortured we don’t get an accompanying lecture about how killing and hurting others is a bad thing?!

  32. Hodor’s Bastard:
    Turncloak,

    Just one strike?

    But if the tables are turned toward the “victim’s” favor during the scene, it may have a very unique, empowering effect. I don’t think they will shy away from that situation at all.

    It may not be their decision to make. This maybe a situation where HBO steps in and decides, we’re not going to show rape anymore. Given how badly it’s shows have mangled the issue

  33. TheTouchOfFrost:
    Luka Nieto,

    Let’s hope so. I find where they’ve strayed too far from the source material to be my least favourite/weakest bits of the show.You’ve reminded me why I hope it’s not arape scene. All we’ll get is yet more sanctimonious overanalysis of sexual assault and certain people feeling the need to write essays reminding everyone why rape is so wrong ( Do they seriously think that the vast majority of people condone it?!). Wonder why whenever any character dies or is tortured we don’t get an accompanying lecture about how killing and hurting others is a bad thing?!

    For many rape is worse than murder. “I rather die than be raped” – Jaime Lannister

  34. Luka Nieto,

    I think the last 3 episodes were a poor portrayal to the books but I still enjoyed them. Byron and Dino, probably the best unsullied reviewers around also found the season finale disappointing.

  35. Luka Nieto:
    TheTouchOfFrost,

    They don’t have TWOW to give them a framework… but they DO have TWOW’s framework to give them a framework, which is more than enough. They don’t have any reason to do anything crazy; by now, especially in some story lines, they are only following the plot very roughly anyway, so the fact they only have a framework for TWOW shouldn’t interfere with the quality too much.

    I don’t think it’ll be a violent rape by Littlefinger. I just don’t think that’s where her character is going, and I don’t see that as Baelish’s MO. It just isn’t. Now, may she seduce him and have sex with him? I see that as a far more likely possibility, and creepy in many ways: she’s underage; she isn’t attracted to him like he is to her, so she’d just be doing it to survive (a form of coercion like any other*); and it’s a generally fucked up relationship.

    *This reminds me of those who say Dany wasn’t raped by Drogo in the books because she physically enjoyed it. Those people don’t know what rape or consent is. It’s difficult to argue a 13-year old can give consent to a grown man anyway, but considering it was AN ARRANGED MARRIAGE, considering she was sold off as a slave… of course there was no consent. It was rape. Some people think “rape” only counts if it’s violent, which is an absolutely horrible notion.

    GeekFurious,

    A Sansa chapter cut from ADWD has been widely speculated to be the same that Elio Garcia read and thought would be very controversial. Traumatic, controversial… it may be the same thing.

    Also, do you really think you’ll go through Season 5 with not a single Sansa spoiler for you? Obviously they won’t advance her storyline too much because it needs to be roughly in sync with everything else for the big finish, but they won’t give her a whole season of faffing about. Her early TWOW material just has to be included.

    Hmm I’m not so sure. I think Sansa will get 95% dose of filler material(which may not be a bad thing if done well). Brienne is also in the Vale so they can pair them up considering they are probably going to stray from Brienne’s

    Lady Stoneheart

    arc

  36. The Hound,

    I didn’t have any unsullied that I know that didn’t love season 4. Sure, there was no Red Wedding… but what in television/book history CAN be another Red Wedding? Joff died in season 4. They LOVED that. I was prepared to not like season 4 much, I was pleasantly surprised. Except for the one horridly directed scene (the Wake), and the one really bad edit (Yara running away). I loved just about everything.

    Now, the unsullied were looking at me funny while I was hysterically hyperventilating when Varys got on the boat… but…well… 🙂

  37. GeekFurious,

    If that’s the case why did you assume D&D would ‘invent’ Sansa’s story? They are after all closer to the source material than anyone else outside of GRRM brain. I’m glad you’ve declared you’re not a purist, because you could have fooled me.

  38. Lady Wolfsbane,

    My friends are hard to please I guess. That’s probably because they have watched a lot of great TV shows like The Wire, The Shield and Deadwood for example

    Yara’s scene was a disaster I agree, it was on a Bryan Cogman episode so we can’t blame D&D 🙂

  39. Turncloak,

    For some people dishonour is worse than death…doesn’t mean they’re right! Either way, rape is being used to tell a story. It’s not being condoned and yet people lose their shit every time it’s even mentioned.

    Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities. – Tyrion Lannister

  40. There have been some insanely good programs on cable recently. Few network dramas are even close, but maybe that’s because they keep pumping out retreads of the same ‘safe’ medical, police and lawyer stuff they’ve been doing for decades. Personally four of the top six on Hitfix’s list are/were brilliant (never watch The Good Wife or Transparent). I would have flipped Fargo and GoT but that show and TD were very good even though they were also very slow at times. My fear with both of those though is that they’re anthologies and recreating the ‘magic’ with a new cast and story may not work. We shall see.

  41. Sansagirlagain:
    GeekFurious,

    If that’s the case why did you assume D&D would ‘invent’ Sansa’s story?They are after all closer to the source material than anyone else outside of GRRM brain. I’m glad you’ve declared you’re not a purist, because you could have fooled me.

    There’s nothing wrong with invented material if done properly. Many think Sansa will get a good dose of invented material because her story arc has gone too far ahead of other characters. Also, the show has already altered her story by revealing herself as Sansa much earlier.

  42. Strider: Never knew he restated his words to make that quote milder, in a different occasion. It could be then a different situation than the one Sophie talks about. I automatically linked the two instances. I still think though that traumatic, horrible and crappy (all words she used in the interview) can refer to her doing harm to someone else though probably not intentionally or if so perhaps in self defense.

    He didn’t make his words milder later on, he originally said it “may be controversial in certain corners of the fandom”. It’s just Vulture that rephrased it as “a chapter which is sure to be controversial”.

  43. TheTouchOfFrost:
    Turncloak,

    For some people dishonour is worse than death…doesn’t mean they’re right! Either way, rape is being used to tell a story. It’s not being condoned and yet people lose their shit every time it’s even mentioned.

    Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities. – Tyrion Lannister

    I think you have to see things in a different perspective. The vast majority of people would agree that murder is wrong. However, there are many people that take the “she deserved it” or the “she was asking for it” approach when discussing rape. This is why rape is written about in think pieces. That is also why many people felt offended by the GOT sept scene. A shitty portrayal of what was supposed to be a consensual scene.

  44. Clob,

    I agree for True Detective, it will just not be the same without McConaughey and Harrelson but I’m still excited.

    btw Aidan “Batman” Gillen (Littlefinger) will have a major role on Season 2! Should be fun, can’t wait to hear his new accent.

  45. The Hound,

    Yup. I don’t blame D&D on that one a bit. And I certainly liked more of the invented stuff than I would have EVER thought possible, before the series started. The near miss with Bran and Jon is a favorite. Ros was a nice merging of random prostitutes into one character.

  46. Turncloak,
    Meh, I think they saved it with the fact that “Team Hodor” COULD have gone to see Jon, but deliberately made sure to miss him. If they’d had both near missed without being aware of one another… that’d have been really cheesy…

    The Hound,

    Ditto what’ you said…

  47. Lady Wolfsbane,

    I also think that Locke’s death was a waste. He was such an interesting character, I wish he was still alive but hey……..the show needed some shock value.

  48. Turncloak,

    IIRC, the Jon and Bran near miss was the only one that wasn’t in the books. I don’t really count Arya at the Bloody Gate, because the gate is still miles away from the Eyrie.

  49. The Hound,

    Ditto that one too. 🙂 Locke turned out too good, someone else could have been sent in his place…? Locke at Winterfell would have been sweet… THEN kill him…

  50. Annara Snow,

    I see, they misquoted him to begin with. But no, I was actually referring to the clarification you mentioned he made somewhere else (that the “controversy” is not really for the character or something she does). For me that makes the “Sansa chapter controversy” milder. Maybe I should not have used the word mild. But that news definitely doesn’t have quite the same kick to it anymore, so to speak.

  51. The Hound,

    I think it is pretty clear from the leaked Nutter episode scenes that T & D do indeed meet in the show before/during the Daznak’s Pit scene in S5, unlike the books. This will be a fairly substantial deviation.
  52. Lady Wolfsbane:
    The Hound,

    Ditto that one too. Locke turned out too good, someone else could have been sent in his place…? Locke at Winterfell would have been sweet… THEN kill him…

    I was so disappointed when Brandor killed Locke >:-[.

    Locke would have been an exceptionally good character to have at Winterfell
  53. Young Dragon:
    Turncloak,

    IIRC, the Jon and Bran near miss was the only one that wasn’t in the books. I don’t really count Arya at the Bloody Gate, because the gate is still miles away from the Eyrie.

    I do count Arya at the Bloody Gate. But this is also a problem in the books. Too many damn near misses. When the show adds more of those it ticks me off.

  54. Hey WOTW staff, there’s something wrong with the qoute-to-reply tool.
    When I try to quote someone’s comment it excludes all text that’s in spoiler tags.

    It’s quite an annoyance.

    Just pointing it out :-]

  55. Greenjones,

    That is very intriguing as well. Will they or won’t they speak to each other? Cool stuff.

    They are also seen running/escaping as a group….after an attack and before DROGON!!!! Who will D fry?
  56. Schrödinger’s Cat:
    Possibly means GRRM’s going to release a TWOW Sansa chapter before season 5 airs, vis-a-vis the ‘Mercy’ chapter before season 4. Whatever it takes to prevent D&D from revealing his plot-points before he does.

    This is what I was going to write, if the show is going to catch up and pass George next season I definitely think he will put the Sansa chapter up on his website before the season starts.
    Sansa is my second favorite character next to Arya and whether D&D adapt scenes from TWOW or if it’s something that they’ve invented, I really don’t mind, I just want April to hurry up and arrive so I can see what happens- I’ve never been more excited about a season of Thrones as I am about this one!!!

  57. What happened to the Sight teasers ? It has been two weeks and we got nothing since then…….aaargh

  58. There’s something I’m really curious about. What does Tyrion do in episode 10, I have no idea- does anybody have any thoughts about what he’ll be doing?

  59. greywind’s ghost,

    Pure speculation:

    1) Tyrion and Jorah arrive in Meereen and get captured or enslaved by Yezzan zo Q
    2) Hizdahr hears of Jorah’s return and schedules him to fight (as a gift to Dany)
    3) Hizdahr meets Tyrion, somehow discovers who he is and buys him as an assistant
    4) Tyrion consults Hizdahr and wants too meet Dany
    5) Tyrion sits next to Hizdahr at Daznaks trying to get Dany’s attention
    6) Jorah fights and wins; Dany sees him and goes to greet him
    7) Chaos erupts as the Sons of the Harpy attack
    8) Hizdahr, Dany, Tyrion, Jorah, Missandei attempt escape and run across the arena field
    9) DROGON

    How’s that?

  60. Hodor’s Bastard:
    greywind’s ghost,

    Pure speculation:

    How’s that?

    I like all those ideas but I think Daznak’s pit will happen in episode 9 – it’s what he does in the aftermath in episode 10 that I’m curious about. Will he remain in Hizdahr’s service or will he side with Barristan or the Second Sons?

    I iust hope it’s something climatic, rather than a dull 5 minute set up scene.

  61. greywind’s ghost,

    Ah…I see. Imho, I think

    Daznak’s is Dany’s season ender, along with “For the watch” and Cersei’s walk. Tyrion et al will be stuck in the Pit as D&D fly away….we will have to wait until S6 (or TWoW) to see their fate.
  62. I suspect that moving Sansa’s plot line up will actually improve her contribution to the story. I have to admit that I think that I missed what Martin was doing with her in Crows. It might work better to show her in ascendancy rather than in nadir: Maleficent Stark might be better than Alayne Stone for telling this season’s story.

    I wonder if Sansa’s storyline will wind up paralleling Arya’s storyline more closely now than it did in the book (although I now suspect that Martin intended it to do so all along).

  63. Strider,

    Strider:
    winnie,

    At the time the 2013 Vulture article came out quoting Elio Garcia’s words about the Sansa chapter, I instantly thought: “Huh, bet Sweet Robin wishes the Snow Castle slap to be the worst thing Sansa did to him!” My money is on her causing an accidental (?) death.

    I’m seeing something like this:

    One of the characters is overdosing on Milk of the Poppy. Sansa enters the room, sizing up the situation coldly, watches as the character expires.

    Many people in the audience start to wonder if Sansa is really “one of the good guys”.

    Vince Gilligan is writing the episode, BTW.

  64. Hodor’s Bastard,

    [Spoiler]Do you think we’ll get the conclusion to Stannis vs the Boltons this season or will it carry over to season 6? I hope it’s this season with Stannis winning and Roose somehow escaping and I’not sure about Ramsey – part of me wants to see him die in tbe battle of ice but another part of me wants him to make it to the final book/season.[/spoiler]

  65. The Hound: Yara’s scene was a disaster I agree, it was on a Bryan Cogman episode so we can’t blame D&D

    I blame production difficulties. It was apparently originally supposed to take place in a courtyard, and that could have been a better fight. My understanding is that the Hound was originally supposed to give his own account of being burned in season 1 but since weather nixed a scene they planned on doing they had Littlefinger convey that information in a different scene.

    The near miss with Bran and Jon is a favorite

    I agree because there’s something that distinguishes it from other near-misses: Bran actually makes a choice. So in that respect it’s somewhat similar to his sending Rickon away in the previous season.

  66. greywind’s ghost,

    Lots of folks on here have plenty to say about that topic, especially regarding Deepwood Motte. 🙂

    I don’t know if I’m consistent with the leaked info or not, but I think Stannis is headed directly to WF from CB. He’ll somehow gather his clans and houses along the way to build his army. Davos will head southeast to treat with Umbers and Manderlys and will probably discover Rickon’s whereabouts along the way. The season will end with Stannis approaching WF, Theon jumping with someone and a possible uprising within WF…maybe an infiltration by Mance and other Northerners? I hope Ramsay doesn’t live too much longer but he will probably get to S6. How much damage will Theon/Reek do before he jumps and escapes from WF? How will Yara come into play, with or without Deepwood Motte in the picture? Will Stannis let her have another shot at Ramsay? I don’t know…but I don’t think we’ll get an ice battle in S5. Would be very surprising if we did. Plus there is the question of how much actual snow will affect the events of S5 in the north?
  67. TheTouchOfFrost:
    Turncloak,

    For some people dishonour is worse than death…doesn’t mean they’re right! Either way, rape is being used to tell a story. It’s not being condoned and yet people lose their shit every time it’s even mentioned.

    Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities. – Tyrion Lannister

    Only 3% percent of rape ends in a conviction. Murder on the other hand, tends to be prosecuted. Murder victims don’t get blamed for their murder. Rape victims get called liars, whores etc. You’re even using victim shaming and blaming now by calling it “dishonor.” That perpetuates the notion that victims are damaged goods. In some countries rape victims are still ostracized from their communities, considered unmarriagable and thought to have brought shame on their families. Rape isn’t bad because it brings dishonor on the victim. It’s bad because it’s a violation of the victim’s body and mind.

    That’s the reason rape is a sensitive topic and the show has not always handled it very well. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you complain about people being horrified by rape and frankly, it’s starting to creep me out. I think you need to look at yourself and try and figure out why these discussions upset you.

  68. Count me in as a Ros fan. I’m not crazy about her season 1 material but by season 3 she had become a really interesting character. I was disappointed when she died because I was excited about the possibilities of her spying for Varys. Esme Bianco’s performance was a pleasant surprise considering that she seemed to primarily be known as a burlesque dancer and hadn’t made a name for herself acting yet. I wonder what she’s up to know. Off to IMDB!

    Finally getting around to the topic on the actual post, this is pretty exciting. I know the actors talk the show up and to take things with a grain of salt but the prospect of TWOW Sansa chapter spoilers is thrilling to me.

  69. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Ms Bianco has a fairly decent twitter feed.

    Given your sharp comments above, and given the various rapey scenes during S4, how do you think the disturbing fArya sequence will play out, if at all? You must have gone ballistic while reading it.

  70. Me, I’m just slightly misty-eyed that we have so much of the old guard here at WotW giving their opinions and debating shit. I feel like I’ve known most of you for years now.

    Biblically.

  71. Axechucker,

    Who HASN’T come over here is the pertinent question…

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Not to move us too far off topic or counter-argue or anything but does that statistic apply worldwide or to a particular country? If it is meant to be worldwide then how exactly was it calculated?

  72. The Hound,

    There’s definitely less hype for season 5 than there was for season 4 but I think my intrigue-o-meter is higher this time as I’m really intrigued to see what they’re doing with all the story changes.

  73. Via the GoT IMDB page for ep. 509:

    Jamie Darlington in an unspecified role. (This is the only source for his being cast in the show, his twitter is private and his CVs haven’t been updated yet. But I doubt this is an unreliable fan-edit since no fans have heard of this name yet from any news source).

    Genita Samarra as “Brea”. Her twitter also makes mention of her being in the show, as well as Instagram links therein. She’s a model, an actress AND a stuntwoman, so it’s hard to say what small role “Brea” will turn out to be…

    These are both likely miniscule roles of course but for the sake of the GoT wiki at the very least, these are at least worth posting.
    I’ll post another name below.

  74. Strider,

    Pshaw. Elio would think GURM having Sansa add raisins to her lemoncakes was controversial. Whatever D&D come up with is going to be better than what the Mountain that Bides has in mind.

  75. Greenjones,
    Felt Pelt,

    Brea is the daughter of Brusco, the man Arya stays with when she is Cat of the Canals. I doubt it’s her; they might just have taken the name. Still, it’s worthy of note. Even if it isn’t the same character, it does point to her being Braavosi.

    BTW, all added to the wiki.

  76. The Hound:
    Luka Nieto,

    Those are fanboys who thinks Game of Thrones is the greatest show ever because that’s the only good show they have watched. My friends are unsullied and they thought the finale was underwhelming. Even if it’s just an opinion, it means that the episode wasn’t as good as expected.

    They even said that Tywin’s death was a joke.

    the end of aSoS was way better than the show version, chapter closed.

    I thought that the party among the show people (can’t remember who it was offhand) who heavily hyped the final episode of GoT season four was reckless (because if the episode turned out to be not all that spectacular that party could have egg on their face). However, I didn’t personally find episode 10 as hateful as you seem to have. Was it the omission of a certain hooded lady and reference to an ex-wife of one of the parties that perturbed you? (I’m trying to phrase things in a way that won’t “spoil”). Or was it the fight that took place between two person in the episode that didn’t take place in the books? I didn’t mind the skeleton wights myself though some folk disliked them and I didn’t mind Arya going to Braavos (well she goes there in the books anyway). I’m grateful to the show for introducing me to the books – there are some instances where I prefer the show and some instances where I prefer the books. I don’t want to be like a stuck vinyl record, because I have said before that I didn’t like the swapping of Jeyne Westerling for Talisa. There were medieval wise women (I think that’s what they used to call the women who dabbled in medicine or had knowledge of herbs) but I couldn’t see a stranger out of nowhere speaking irritably to Robb, who was a King, the way Talisa spoke to Robb initially…but (and I may be the only person) I was very glad neither of the Daarios had blue hair. For the record, “Game of Thrones” is not the only good TV show I have ever watched (though “good” is always going to be subjective, is it not?). I was never able to warm to “The Sopranos” – though I agree it was well acted, but many friends and acquaintances think it “The S______s” was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

  77. Greenjones:

    He has a twitter with only two tweets indicating he was cast in August. My guess is that this is the same part that folks briefly thought was a Darkstar expy before finding out otherwise.

    Yeah, I think that you’re right. If Vitt’s going to be in 5×04, then based on that character description, he’s likely going to be

    the leader of the Dornish contingent that Jaime and Bronn skirmish with shortly after they arrive.

    Afraid that I don’t have any theories as to who the rest of the people you’ve brought to our attention might be playing. Genita Samarra’s stunt background, in particular, means that she could pop up anywhere (as for her name, “Brea”, there’s always the possibility that it could be one of those names like “Gordy” that’s unlikely to ever be said out loud on the show). It would be cool she was practicing archery for her role in Game of Thrones (in the pictures that Felt Pelt linked to). But there’s no way for us to know that for sure.

  78. Dame of Mercia:
    I wonder if and when we will learn (for sure) who Jon Snow’s fond Mama is/was…..

    its pretty much a lock who his parents are at this point.

    The only thing that matters is how it’s delivered. I personally think this is where the bitter sweet part of GRRM’s ending will come from. Jon will find out who his parents are but curse their names for letting their selfish desires conquer them which lead to the events of Robert’s Rebellion and set the realm on a path of internal destruction. I know that would piss off a lot of people :). Very GRRM like
  79. GeekFurious:
    I imagine whatever it is… it is total invention by D&D and will not appear in Winds of Winter. Much like Talisa’s death at the Red Wedding.

    The Winds Of Winter? You mean the inevitable novelisation of GoT S6 by Brandon Sanderson?

  80. I found this http://instagram.com/p/vjnhCkD7m-/?modal=true through Gemita’s instagram. Apparently these 2 other ladys are also cast. Irma Mali does have a IMDB page but there’s nothing about got yet. And this seems to be the first acting job for Ollie Kram, according to her facebook it was a last minute cast on november 16. They filmed the 17 and 18.
    So no clue about her parts. But it seems they were in the same scene though, if that helps.

  81. Turncloak,

    I think that improbable that it will turn out to be quite like that! Remember,

    Rhaegar needed a third: and Elia Martell could not have any more children. It almost certainly was duty that drove Rhaegar to do what he did: and my guess is that we will learn that he communicated this to Lyanna and possibly Elia as well.

    So, Jon is going to learn the opposite of what he had always believed:

    far from being born out of lust and wantonness, he was very much bred out of duty.

    That would be much more GRRM’s style than what you propose!

    At any rate, I do hope that Martin gets this big reveal into Winter: the TV audience is going to be disappointed if it never is revealed (Sean Bean has the right of this!), and the book readers will be a little disappointed if it is shown on TV first.

    Dame of Mercia: I don’t want to be like a stuck vinyl record, because I have said before that I didn’t like the swapping of Jeyne Westerling for Talisa. There were medieval wise women (I think that’s what they used to call the women who dabbled in medicine or had knowledge of herbs) but I couldn’t see a stranger out of nowhere speaking irritably to Robb, who was a King, the way Talisa spoke to Robb initially…

    As Talisa is not a citizen of Westeros, and as people from Volantis consider Westerosians little better than savages, it actually was appropriate. That makes the medieval wise woman the wrong model: Talisa would have been more like the Western nurse in Africa or the New World. Talisa’s disdain for what the savages are doing and how they bumble about without anything she considers to be long term plans or purposes was very reminiscent of how dismissive Western missionaries and charity workers were (and still are) in non-Western regions. (Even before that, Romans acted much like this in the rest of Europe: the tribal chieftains were no less muck on their boots than were the typical tribe members.)

    This was useful because we probably are going to get a greater taste of this in the near future. (Indeed, the show already has given us a taste of this for Dany.)

    As for swapping out Jeyne Westerling, that was inevitable once they decided to elevate Robb to a protagonist. If you want to develop a man as a “strong” character, then you cannot have him falling for someone who comes across as a medieval valley girl, or show him quickly capitulating to simplistic moral codes. Robb’s wife had to be someone who challenged him at some level and who introduced palpable conflict to which the viewing audience could relate. Given the nature of the stories being told (first conflicted loyalties, then conflicted love-hate) some sort of damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don’t romance was very useful for driving the stories. Remember, in the books, Robb is just a foil for Catelyn, and thus Jeyne is Catelyn’s problem, not Robb’s. Sansa-lite is fine there. (She would not have been had Martin use Robb as a protagonist, but that’s another kettle of fish.)

    Along these lines, elevating Robb to a protagonist was a brilliant idea, and the show has benefited much from that. Of all the secondary characters to so elevate, he is the most obvious choice. (Margaery would be second: but a distant second!)

  82. What if GoT will leave out Lady stoneheart completely and instead give those scenes to Lady Sansa (LS). Sansa hangin Brienne and Pod could be this traumatic scene they are talking about.

  83. StandOzone:
    Sansa will have a traumatic experience when she faces.

    It is known.

    Wow, I never thought of that. That would be interesting. Maybe

    Sansa joins LS in her cause to exact revenge on the Freys? Maybe later Brienne is taken captive and Sansa tricks Jaime to come to LS and the BWB?
  84. Cumsprite,

    To paraphrase a fave character: “It’s Martin. George R. R. Martin. And he prefers sharp cheddar cheese or camembert and brie. Not the spray can kind!” (It’s disturbing that I remember that actually 🙂 )

    You have a lot of faith in Benioff & Weiss, Mr. Sprite. You’re probably a big show fan, no?! Oh, wait… It must be then little faith in Martin. We’ll see. I think they’ll just adapt the Sansa chapter that Elio Garcia talked about, which means they have already read the source. It won’t be something original they write for the show.

  85. Wasn’t there a scene in AFFC after Lysa is killed where SweetRobin climbs into Sansa’s bed and tries to breastfeed? That could get traumatic in all sorts of ways, from her gouging him with a pointy necklace to fight him off all the way to her deciding to go along with it, for some as yet unforeseen reason.

  86. GeekFurious:
    I imagine whatever it is… it is total invention by D&D and will not appear in Winds of Winter. Much like Talisa’s death at the Red Wedding.

    And so it begins: the three seasons of overzealous purists accusing D&D of “changing” storylines they haven’t even read yet.

  87. Strider,

    You remember incorrectly. GM loves the spray kind and not just on his Philly cheese steaks. The amount of Cheez Whiz Martin is able to consume in one sitting is, according to one of his colleagues, “disturbing”.

  88. Why are some people thinking it’ll be entirely invented material? Why do they think D&D care at all about spoiling book readers?

  89. Cumsprite,

    I remember the man himself saying what cheeses he prefers in an interview (don’t make me look for it, it’s too much work LOL). You just bring in third party rumours. I win. It feels good. Got myself a cookie!

  90. Matt,
    It might not be that D&D are trying to spoil or avoid spoiling book readers, but the simple fact that they presumably have to deliver a new series roughly once a year for HBO, who aren’t going to suggest the programme has a break to allow the books to overtake them.

    I assume they have a fairly good idea how far into the next book – and to the end of the story overall, whether that’s two more or another 14 – GRRM is and some (possibly very) approximate publication dates. If there’s no chance he’ll get the corresponding book out before each of the next seasons is due to air they have no choice but to spoil book readers on all the major plot points which affect the endgame even if, for whatever reason, they alter many of the minor details.

  91. Turncloak,

    The vast vast majority of people think/know rape is wrong. My point is this isn’t a think piece. In this story/world rape is a horrible thing that happens to characters. It’s not examined any closer to that and applying modern notions of people thinking ‘she asked for it’ is invalid as it happens in a world where rape ( along with murder, torture, cannabilism,etc) is commonplace. To think the average reader/watcher can’t seperate modern life with a fantasy medieval world and every time rape is discussed a lecture has to be given is quite insulting to their intelligence. This is especially true of this forum where the vast majority of people are quite progressive thinkers. Do agree with you that the sept scene was needlessly controversial. Although I don’t think it was intentional, just badly directed/edited.

    WeirwoodTreeHugger,

    Please don’t twist my words. I used “dishonour” as an example not specifically connected to rape. For example, honour killings in some muslim cultures, the honour code is Japanese culture during WW2 (death before surrender), etc. But that’s by the by. My opinion is however traumatic an experience someone has been through if they’re still alive there’s a chance to recover and still live a fulfilling and happy life. If you think differently then fair play.
    I don’t know where you live but I know absoloutely zero people who blame a rape victim for being raped. The reason rape has so few convictions (in more developed countries anyhow) is because in a lot of cases it comes down to one persons word against another. With all the good will in the world, how can anyone make a decision either way on that? Don’t want to try and play top trumps with horrible experiences but being falsely labelled a rapist causes massive damage to a person.
    Again, you’re making false accusations simply because my opinion differs from yours. To say I’m not horrified by rape is a pretty low way to try and score points. Rape is massively traumatic for anyone who’s gone through it; everyone knows that. All I’m asking is why do we need to be told that every time it is discussed and overanalyse any scene that features it? Again, when discussing a fictional rape that happened in a fantasy medieval world why does it need to be compared to the modern world? When people are beheaded in the show no one steps in with a reminder that ISIS are doing the same thing in Syria and that we need to be more sensitive discussing it. When Theon has his todger chopped off or there’s scenes with any of the various eunuchs in the show, there weren’t scores of people chiming in with how genital mutilation is still a big issue in some cultures.
    I can tell you why these discussions annoy me. Because they have absolutely nothing to do with the show. Now if you want to start trying to argue the point instead of trying to assassinate my character it would be greatly appreciated as I’ve granted you that same courtesy.

  92. Claire,

    That’s really a great find. If they were all stunt models I’d say they’re spearwives. But the other two seem to be models only, so they’re probably brothel workers? Looking again at the hem of her costume, it doesn’t cover her legs and it looks like gold lamé mesh, a la a see through seductive gawdiness.

  93. Wimsey,

    We’ll have to agree to disagree about Talisa, Wimsey. You probably have a point in that the persons from t’other side of the Narrow Sea were, or at least considered themselves to be, more learned than the average Westerosian, but educated woman or not, can you imagine what would have happened to Talisa if it had been King Joffrey she cheeked rather than King Robb…………….

  94. Dame of Mercia,

    Well, when Talisa and Robb first met, he was helping her save a Lannister soldier’s life. It kind of gave a little insight into his personality. If Robb had done what Joffrey would have done, like standing on the sidelines laughing at all the misfortune, or something much worse, she probably would have kept her distance.

  95. Braavosi girl/name Brea, models, filming in November, appearing in Nutter’s episode 5×09… That fits all very well to what we know about the Arya/Trant/Lhara interaction;

    Mace Tyrell and Meryn Trant meet with Tycho in Braavos in 5×09, Trant goes visiting a brothel (or similar establishment), Arya seems to be Cat of the Canals at this moment (looking at the pictures we’ve seen), scene with Trant and courtesans, later Arya’s “Mercy”-moment happens.
    So I’m pretty sure these actresses appear in the Braavos storyline.
  96. Does anyone think that this controversial scene with Sansa may not concern sex at all, but her being involved with the death of Robin/Robert Arryn? It wouldn’t be that surprising, considering that he would need to die for Litterfinger’s schemes to go as planned.

  97. shitmouth,

    I wouldn’t be surpised if that happened but I think the choice of language and “traumatic” in particular doesn’t immediately conjure that scenario to mind.

  98. Luka Nieto,

    Aha, you’re right of course. I’m so used to D and D coming up with original names for the bit parts (like Clea and Gordy) that I didn’t even think to search it through the ebooks to double-check if there was a bookBrea.

    Thanks for adding it to the wiki btw. I don’t know if you saw me mention this on AFOIAF but there’s also Jake Abraham as “Meereenese Peddler” in ep. 501. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0008940/?ref_=tt_cl_t1
    (Most of the info on 501’s IMDB page is dead wrong because it is made up largely of fan-edits, but in this case it must be edited by his agents/management since no fans were in-the-know about that info. There was a casting call for this part too, so it makes sense that he’d be cast know).

  99. Dame of Mercia: can you imagine what would have happened to Talisa if it had been King Joffrey she cheeked rather than King Robb…………….

    True: but, then, the same thing happened to a lot of Westerners who treated local nobility like servants, too! Regardless, she would not have shown the deference that Westerosi women would have shown: as a noblewoman herself, as one from a society where women seem to be slightly less unequal than men relative to Westerns, and as one who looks down on some of her own society’s norms never mind those of Westeros, she would appear quite “uppity” to a Westerosian. (That was actually well-used on the show: Catelyn’s disapproval of Arya’s independence was re-echoed in her disapproval of Talissa’s independence.)

    As for what Joffery would have done, that is a separate issue with no real bearing on what Talisa would have done. Moreover, Joffery’s handlers might well have rushed quite a bit more to stop him from doing something dumb with a foreign noblewoman: if nothing else, then they would have urged him to ransom her back to her family in Volantis.

    And as for the “probably,” Dragons makes it pretty clear how the easterners view the Westerosians:

    some view Westerosians as children crying out for paternalistic care, the rest simply view Westerosians as dangerous savages.

    people who do what Talisa was doing tend to fall in the former camp, incidentally, or at least they did historically: the idea that “others” might be equals is a very new one!)

    Out of curiosity, did you disapprove of the show elevating Robb to a protagonist?

  100. I think that this is going to be the

    lady stoneheart/sansa change

    as I expected. It makes sense because littlefinger is supposedLy going to be in KL this season and

    brienne reaches the Vale and therefore sansa is free to make her own decisions. She is vengeful now that she’s no longer in KL

    .

  101. So has no one considered the possibility that the scene that made everyone on set so uncomfortable could have been Sansa seducing Robin? I am pretty sure I remember reading an interview where Natalie Dormer said the scene with Tommen and Margaery in bed last season was originally racier but she wasn’t comfortable with it so they toned it down. Couldn’t they have now shifted that scene to the Sansa storyline? And perhaps a scene where she seduces Robin straight to his death would be even more traumatic and uncomfortable. How far can HBO push things with an underage actor?

  102. GeekFurious,

    Cry more, I love bathing in the tears of book purists.

    And LS is never going to be on the show!

    Mmmmmm your tears are mana from heaven

  103. Greenjones,

    Your will is my command.

    BaelorBalerionBaelish,

    That’s… wow. That’s actually a great way to go!

    With Stoneheart gone, Sansa could take up her role rather easily. Obviously not exactly the same role, but she could become a similar obstacle to Brienne (and maybe Jaime, if they’re going there at all.)
  104. The_Ghost_of_Karl_Tanner,

    You do realise you’re responding to a comment that simply said the scene would be an invention right? There was no mention of how inventions are horrible or how everything must follow the books to the letter, just that it would be an invention. Try not making attacks on other people based on nothing.

  105. We’ll witness D & D truly jump the shark when they screw up Sansa’s arc in S5. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry 🙁

  106. BaelorBalerionBaelish:
    I think that this is going to be the as I expected. It makes sense because littlefinger is supposedLy going to be in KL this season and.

    I love this, in fact, I think it’s highly likely. D&D have been calling her “Dark Sansa”, and Sansa might not appreciate Brianne very much…
    1) She is close with Jamie Lannister, a family Sansa already hates
    2) She carries Oathkeeper, which used to be ICE. Not sure Sansa will like that.
    3) If Brianne happens to mention she “killed” the Hound, well, I’m not sure Sansa would like that either.
    In fact, if this happens, it would make sense why they changed the Hounds fate from the books to a fight between the Hound and Brianne.

    Hmmm…..this is absolutely plausible

  107. Wimsey,

    I hadn’t read the books when I saw the first two series of GoT, so I didn’t have a view on Robb being present on screen more than he was in the books. I had heard people saying that GRRM avoided hackneyed literary devices – when I saw the (to me at least) drippy love story of Robb and Talisa unfold I thought GRRM was definitely using a literary cliche, but I found out later that GRRM’s version of events was different.

    Some changes from the books I haven’t minded, for example, I much preferred the swift demise of Maester Cresson on screen than the time it took in the Prologue of “A Clash of Kings”. The show version of the Red Wedding I found very sad, but I could have done without Talisa’s wittering on about Robb teaching ‘ickle Eddard Stark to ride his horsy. (For the avoidance of doubt I have liked Oona Chaplin in other things).

  108. BaelorBalerionBaelish:
    I think that this is going to be the as I expected. It makes sense because littlefinger is supposedLy going to be in KL this season and.

    I love this, in fact, I think it’s highly likely. D&D have been calling her “Dark Sansa”, and Sansa might not appreciate Brianne very much…
    1) She is close with Jamie Lannister, a family Sansa already hates
    2) She carries Oathkeeper, which used to be ICE. Not sure Sansa will like that.
    3) If Brianne happens to mention she “killed” the Hound, well, I’m not sure Sansa would like that either.
    In fact, if this happens, it would make sense why they changed the Hounds fate from the books to a fight between the Hound and Brianne.

    Hmmm…..this is absolutely plausible

  109. Claire,

    BTW, that picture and other social media info regarding those particular models/actresses shooting around Nov. 18th, means that they shot on the same day that Sarine Sofair shot in Belfast recently. Given that the name “Brea” is Braavosi and the other girls are models (who are no strangers to nudity by which show-casting precedent puts them in line to play featured extras in PARTICULAR sorts of scenes) I’d say that this confirms that they’re courtesans too.

    Also, they’re being ep. 509 works with Lacy Moore’s “Braavos Madam” character appearing in a David Nutter episode.

    If one factors in Sarine Sofair’s tweeting to Ian Beattie around this time, it likely means that the show’s version of the Mercy incident will take place in 509. My guess is Meryn Trant will take his leave from the group escorting Mace Tyrell to the IBOB, where he’ll be spotted and follow by Arya as he makes his way to find some courtesans…then he’ll get NEEDLED.
  110. Greenjones,

    Great work! 😀

    So we’d have in…
    … 5×09 so far: Something in Dorne (with Doran, Jaime, Ellaria, Areo, Trystane, Myrcella), “Mercy” in Braavos, and the big event: Daznak’s Pit;
    … 5×10 very probably: The Walk, Dany in the Dothraki Sea, “For The Watch”;
    and something Stannis&Co.-related (-> the Baratheon General working with Nutter) in one of them, or both (hopefully (beginning of) the Battle of Ice).
  111. Dame of Mercia: I had heard people saying that GRRM avoided hackneyed literary devices – when I saw the (to me at least) drippy love story of Robb and Talisa unfold I thought GRRM was definitely using a literary cliche, but I found out later that GRRM’s version of events was different.

    Yes, they were different. And, yes, they were just as much of a “hackneyed literary device.” (Martin himself uses this general device of “forbidden love” elsewhere in his books, by the way.) More so, in fact: not only has it been done in many other works (as well as in reality), it was completely arbitrary. However, the arbitrary part is not a big deal when a protagonist is not involved: after all, non-protagonists exist to get story out of protagonists. Arbitrariness is a big deal once you get the character up to protagonist level.

    And on that topic….
    Luka Nieto,

    Actually, it really would not be easy for one simple reason: one of those characters is a protagonist and the other isn’t. Transferring plot lines from one non-protagonist to another is no big deal: after all what is important is that a person doing A cause the protagonist to think B and do C. Moreover, the non-protagonist in question does things that affect two other protagonists in the books, not the one in question (although we really don’t know what that is yet, as it has just kicked into play): thus, it’s not like we could have our first protagonist simply push him/herself along into whatever quandary awaits.

    Instead, I am betting on something more like this: (spoilers so I can use names):

    B&W are going to rewrite Sansa’s plot line so that her story line more obviously parallels Arya’s. I think that Martin intended this to be the case: both Cat and Alayne are apprentices (one by her choice, the other by someone else’s choice) learning how to play key parts in the Game of Thrones. Both are putting aside the girl that was (both frequently think of what their “old” self would have done or thought, and both even actively try to repress old habits), and both are stepping up to a position where they can take up the Stark banner. (I am now convinced that Martin meant us to see that in Sansa in Crows: however, he failed to provide the “clinching” chapter akin to Arya’s final chapters in Dragons.) I don’t think that going around killing Freys would be sufficient to get the “kill the girl, become the Player” story across. As Sansa’s storyline is going to be up against some pretty stiff competition with Dany’s, Jon’s, Arya’s, Tyrion’s and Theon’s, they really do need to up the ante here. What the book provided did not cut it there: and it definitely would not work on TV.
  112. Al Swearengen,

    How would you know? If Sansa’s story is shit next season, there are like half a dozen people in the world who will know whether D&D are to blame or GRRM is. You are not one of them.

    I expect much more of that kind of strange complaint for Seasons 6 and 7, when every character will be in uncharted territory. It will be so funny. “D&D are runining such and such.” How do you know? Maybe it’s GRRM. There will be plenty of examples in which they blame D&D for something that’s from the as of yet unpublished books. That will probably be the case with Sansa this season too.

    Greenjones,

    Excellent detective work. You were right all along about how they would adapt the Mercy chapter, it seems. It will involve prostitutes!

    Wimsey,

    That’s more than likely, yes.

  113. fallenangel: I love this, in fact, I think it’s highly likely. D&D have been calling her “Dark Sansa”, and Sansa might not appreciate Brianne very much…
    1) She is close with Jamie Lannister, a family Sansa already hates
    2) She carries Oathkeeper, which used to be ICE. Not sure Sansa will like that.
    3) If Brianne happens to mention she “killed” the Hound, well, I’m not sure Sansa would like that either.
    In fact, if this happens, it would make sense why they changed the Hounds fate from the books to a fight between the Hound and Brianne.

    Hmmm…..this is absolutely plausible

    Sorry guys. This just doesn’t work for me.
    1/ Sansa is not as bitter as LS and becoming that vindictive would completely flip her character in a bad way.
    2/ The whole Brotherhood without Banners and Dondarrion thing would have been a complete waste of time if Sansa and the Vale step in.
    3/ Littlefinger isn’t stupid and wouldn’t let her rock the boat going after Jaime on a revenge mission.
    4/ Sansa doesn’t have anything personally against Jaime. He wasn’t present at Ned’s death and it’s questionable that he knew anything about the Red Wedding. Plus Brienne swore no oaths to Sansa and she would be unlikely to know of the details of Catlyn and Briennes arrangement.

    I think Sansa has moved beyond the revenge for RW and is into a storyline of her own at the moment. If people want an LS proxy then your best bet is Blackfish. Sansa is on a different course now. If she takes revenge it will be a dish served very cold. If this theory does come to pass, I can’t help but worry that they’ve made another very big change that strays away from the source material in a way that effects the quality and integrity of the characters..

  114. Messy Justin Massey:
    Greenjones,
    Great work!

    Eps 9 & 10 should be totally riveting but how do we definitively know that

    Daznak’s will be in ep9? Will the last killer scene of the season be “For the Watch” or D&D flying off? Either of these scenes could be the last scene for either ep9 or ep10…but which one?
  115. TheTouchOfFrost: If this theory does come to pass, I can’t help but worry that they’ve made another very big change that strays away from the source material in a way that effects the quality and integrity of the characters..

    Well, as we haven’t read Winter yet, it’s tough to say that! I do agree with you that I don’t think that Winter is going to go this way: but, on the other hand, I also do not consider it outside of the realm of possibility. (I don’t really have any good feeling for what Sansa is going to be doing in Winter plot-wise; story-wise, I think that it’s going to be about her ascendancy, but for some reason I’m banking on Winter being a story about ascension.)

    However, if the show does this, then I would take this as an indication that this is what we are going to be reading in Winter, not an indication that B&W are going astray. Moreover, I think that it’s tough to say what Sansa is or is not over, save that she’s over being the girl who believed in fairy tales that we saw in the first three stories. That old Sansa was far too passive to consider things like revenge: but if she is taking control of her life and starting to actually think for herself, then this becomes a possibility.

    The bigger issues is that she’s going to have to start angling for Winterfell sometimes soon. B&W might well be laying the groundwork for that: and the Stark progeny who deals with the Freys will have that deed to justify her/his claim to Winterfell.

  116. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I would enjoy reading a Sansa-or-Arya & LS meeting with chaotic results (especially if one of Cat’s daughters is terminally wounded) but I doubt it will happen. Sansa assuming some of LS’s vendetta would not be a good motivation for Sansa. It wouldn’t work for me either. Put me in the Blackfish corner….and I’ll also put a few chips on another possible SanSan encounter. 🙂

  117. Alex Greyjoy,

    Oh I snorted Saki out my nose about the novelization…

    Scott,

    I prefer the idea of a Robin seduction/killing to the other book arc cannibalization mentioned. But for me, it’s one OR the other…

  118. My guess is Sansa and Littlefinger (or Sansa… on orders / advice of Littlefinger) doings something to a certain other person. Thus completing the transformation of Sansa into Darth Sansa.

    I highly doubt it will be anything concerning rape / sex. Most of all because BOOK Littlefinger is just to smart to do that. He will not attempt to have sex with her (maybe after he offed SR, married her to HtH, she gets a child, they murder him and they marry) Besides… Sophie mentions the word ‘everyone’. If it was anything rape or with nudity she wouldnt have used that word since it would have been a closed set.
    For season 6… i might see something like that happen (though it wont be rape but the natural progression of the arc of Sansa to be Littlefinger’s.) Until she learns about what Littlefinger did to her family after which she’ll backstab him 😉

    How do i add spoiler tags to that second part of the post?!

  119. Scott,
    No idea about other countries, but a large chunk of GoT is shot in the UK and governed by it’s laws, which are very strict on what can and cannot be shown in a sexual context with both actors and characters who are under the age of consent (16). Obviously if the actor is too young to be doing something it’s straight up illegal. However, as I understand it (and I’m no expert, I just remember reading about it) the same applies to a character who is either supposed to be, or even just looks, under 16. I imagine the younger they are (ie the more under 16, terrible English but you know what I mean) the stricter things become.

    I assume Sophie Turner was 16 or so when she filmed Sansa’s wedding night scenes but the fact that Sansa is supposed to be 14 (I’m pretty sure Tyrion asks and she says that) negates the fact that the actor is 16 or over. I doubt that they could have shown anything more sensual if they’d wanted to. I’m also under the impression that the age gap between those involved comes into play, so two 14 year olds is bad, but if one is under 16 and the other twice their age that’s worse. Same applies to the scene with Margery and Tommen.

    I don’t know how old Robin is supposed to be (10 or so, maybe even younger?) but there’s no way UK censors would allow a sex scene between him and Sansa, although of course other countries might.

  120. Lulu’s Mum,
    Whoops, hit post comment by accident before I’d fine tuned it. Obviously UK laws on what can be shown don’t affect other jurisdictions or the production of the programme, but the ones on what can be filmed certainly do. HBO may well take into account various countries’ legislation to give them a feel for how potentially controversial scenes will be received. They’re trying to make a mainstream, albeit age-restricted, tv show to sell around the world and the fact that some ideas would definitely fall foul of censors can be an indicator of how they would be viewed in general. Something might not be illegal but that doesn’t mean people would be happy watching it.

  121. Greenjones,
    The Hound,

    Hmmm. Well, I’ll stop debating myself about it then. Thx. I guess, as The Hound surmised before, we’ll have to wonder if that scene

    will be the end to the Dany/Tyrion arc for S5 or if ep10 will contain the aftermath, to include the escape of R&V, a critical barbeque and the beginning of the battle. Damn, eps 9 & 10 should be massively fun with some awesome VFX.
  122. More End-of-Year Accolades: SAG Nominations were announced this morning. Game of Thrones was nominated for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series* and Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Comedy or Drama Series. http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/2015-sag-awards-nominations-complete-list

    *For a complete list of actors who are singled out in that recognition, you can check out that link. Note that in order to be eligible, an actor has to be a member of SAG and appear in a certain percentage of the season’s episodes. That’s why some surprising names (Josef Altin, Mark Stanley, Ben Crompton, Dominic Carter, Jacob Anderson) are on that list while some of the bigger-name cast members (Carice van Houten, Stephen Dillane, Liam Cunningham, Alfie Allen, Iwan Rheon) are absent.

    On an individual level, Peter Dinklage was nominated for Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Drama Series. That’s his first individual recognition from SAG for Game of Thrones (he was previously nominated for The Station Agent in 2004) and it’s effectively recognizing him for a Lead Performance. He’ll be competing against Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Steve Buscemi, and Kevin Spacey in that category.

  123. Add me to the list of those who liked Ros. I don’t think most viewers hated the character; it’s more that the ones who did felt very strongly and were very vocal about it.

  124. Jared:
    More End-of-Year Accolades: SAG Nominations were announced this morning. Game of Thrones was nominated for Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Drama Series* and Outstanding Action Performance by a Stunt Ensemble in a Comedy or Drama Series. http://www.hitfix.com/in-contention/2015-sag-awards-nominations-complete-list

    On an individual level, Peter Dinklage was nominated for Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Drama Series. That’s his first individual recognition from SAG for Game of Thrones (he was previously nominated for The Station Agent in 2004) and it’s effectively recognizing him for a Lead Performance. He’ll be competing against Matthew McConaughey, Woody Harrelson, Steve Buscemi, and Kevin Spacey in that category.

    Congratulations to the GoT team for the SAG nominations. (Can’t believe it’s that time of year again.)

    And it was so nice to see Viola Davis and Tatiana Maslany on the nomination shortlist for Best Drama Series Actress. They deserve it.

    (Sad Chadwick Boseman didn’t get a nomination for Get On Up. After the early hype they forgot about him it seems.)

  125. Wimsey,

    It could be that she is moving more towards her TWoW storyline or could be filler ( Jon and Bran at Crasters Keep stuff). Although I’d prefer to avoid book spoilers I’d lean more towards the former but would have been happy for Sansa ( and Brienne for that matter) to do a Bran and take a season off/in the backseat.

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Well SanDog’s story is going to have to change a fair bit as I’m thinkin all the Quiet Isle stuff is gone. So much up in the air. This is why straying from the already set storyline worries me so much.

  126. TheTouchOfFrost: or could be filler ( Jon and Bran at Crasters Keep stuff).

    That wasn’t filler: that was adaptation. The book gave us

    Coldhands

    at Craster’s Keep, after all. As that character (“”?) is cut, they either needed to transfer the deeds to someone else, or cut it. As this is one of the few remotely cinematic things that happens on Bran’s journey (or could have been, with some tweaking), it was an obvious candidate for adapting.

    TheTouchOfFrost….would have been happy for Sansa ( and Brienne for that matter) to do a Bran and take a season off/in the backseat.

    What? After 18 years, Sansa finally gets remotely interesting, and you want her to take a year off?!?!? At any rate, I suspect that she’ll have the exact same story as in the books: she’s just going to start and end higher.

    Lulu’s Mum: I assume Sophie Turner was 16 or so when she filmed Sansa’s wedding night scenes but the fact that Sansa is supposed to be 14 (I’m pretty sure Tyrion asks and she says that) negates the fact that the actor is 16 or over.

    I suspect that it wouldn’t come up in most contexts, anyway. One thing about Martin’s world that is true of most of human history is that “underage sex” is an oxymoron: anyone old enough to have sex is an adult. Essentially, menarche defines womanhood. Our modern ideas of teenagers being children are a bit iconoclastic.

    I always found that a bit weird when reading War and Peace and other literary works from the 19th century, where teenage girls routinely flirt with and marry men in the 20’s, 30’s and 40’s. It sounds a bit dirty now, but in “normal” human culture, nobody would think twice about it. (Every now and then I find pictures of myself with one of my old girlfriends, and I wonder how I found such skinny, girlish-looking women attractive: but in my teens and 20’s, I did! I guess my transition is unnatural….)

  127. When I mentioned (on this thread) about not being over fond of the Talisa character, I was addressing a comment The Hound had made about “fanboys” who liked the show. I was trying to say that I liked the show on the whole but there were changes I had not been so keen on. I didn’t want to stir up a hornets’ nest about Talisa. I am not the show – or the book – police and because I didn’t like the character doesn’t mean that I belittle folk who liked her, though it does mean I disagree with them. I think I mentioned that I didn’t think the skeleton wights were THAT bad though the general consensus seems to be that they were ghastly.

  128. Lulu’s Mum:
    Scott,
    No idea about other countries, but a large chunk of GoT is shot in the UK and governed by it’s laws, which are very strict on what can and cannot be shown in a sexual context with both actors and characters who are under the age of consent (16). Obviously if the actor is too young to be doing something it’s straight up illegal. However, as I understand it (and I’m no expert, I just remember reading about it) the same applies to a character who is either supposed to be, or even just looks, under 16. I imagine the younger they are (ie the more under 16, terrible English but you know what I mean) the stricter things become.

    I assume Sophie Turner was 16 or so when she filmed Sansa’s wedding night scenes but the fact that Sansa is supposed to be 14 (I’m pretty sure Tyrion asks and she says that) negates the fact that the actor is 16 or over. I doubt that they could have shown anything more sensual if they’d wanted to. I’m also under the impression that the age gap between those involved comes into play, so two 14 year olds is bad, but if one is under 16 and the other twice their age that’s worse. Same applies to the scene with Margery and Tommen.

    I don’t know how old Robin is supposed to be (10 or so, maybe even younger?) but there’s no way UK censors would allow a sex scene between him and Sansa, although of course other countries might.

    Or, you know, they may not show a sex scene between Robin and Sansa because it’s an utterly ludicrous idea by a fan on a forum that will never happen in the show or books…

    As for Tyrion and Sansa, I can see why they couldn’t show Sansa naked (but there are ways around that, they could have gotten the sense of discomfort and sexual threat without showing her naked), and why they wanted to keep Tyrion looking squeaky clean (which is probably the real reason why so much about the wedding on the whole was changed), but don’t see how age gap matters in a situation where we’re talking about potential rape. What, it’s worse to be raped by a 40-something than by a 20-something? Seems the same to me.

  129. Wimsey,
    Obviously across the (real) world, both currently and throughout history, people have had sex, married and had kids of their own at an age many of us would not like to think about, but I was specifically replying to Scott’s question about whether or not it could possibly be a sex scene between Sansa and Robin and if HBO would even counter the idea.

    As I don’t know anything about censorship in the USA I was using UK law as an example, which I assume would be vaguely similar, then realised I was combining what’s legal to show (which I know a fair bit about) with legal to film (really not sure) and just confusing myself, never mind anyone else.

    In conclusion I’ve no idea if the fact that parts of the programme are filmed in the UK is governed by UK laws on what can be shown here, or if that doesn’t apply and it only needs to be legal to film it, but reckon an actual S & R sex scene, as opposed to perhaps just the suggestion of it (all talk no action), would be on very shaky ground indeed simply because many potential viewers just wouldn’t want to watch it, never mind any legal implications. And I need to write shorter sentences!

  130. Annara Snow,
    Saw your comment just after I posted a reply to Wimsey and my answer to them might cover some of that. All I know is that UK broadcasting law is very strict on some things with sexual content but strangely lenient on others. For example, it’s illegal to show an erect penis in any context at all, including a medical documentary, but some things you can show would presumably be potentially a lot more offensive.

    UK censorship probably also reflects the actual laws on consent, in that someone under 16 cannot legally consent to sex under any circumstances, so they are technically being raped if they have what to them is fully consensual sex. If a 15 year old is in a relationship with a 16 year old, the latter is technically a rapist if they have sex, although unlikely to be prosecuted if the 15 year old is perfectly happy with the situation. However, someone in a position of trust (like a teacher) or much older than the other party is seen as an abuser because of the age gap. It’s all very complicated with a lot of grey areas and not something to go into in any depth here, I think. As I said to Wimsey, I was just mentioning this in the context of what GoT may, or may not, want to show. These kind of considerations may not apply in the States at all, I was just using it as an example of how HBO may judge whether something can be included or not.

    As for whether they would have an S&R sex scene, I’m not a book reader but as far as I can tell from other people’s comments we’re into uncharted Sansa territory in S5. I don’t know the story in enough detail to even speculate whether it might happen, but I hope not. My only reaction would be ewwwwwww, even if it was just suggested :O(

  131. theory

    Sansa accept that Robyn sleep with her in her bed, he grab one of her breast and begin sucking it… Sansa is uncomfortable but she let him do it..later in the night, he piss in the sheets…

    Then begin Sansa’s hate for sweet robyn that will lead her at the return to the eery to push him trought to the moondoor…

  132. I’m puzzled but almost amused by the fact that the discussion about hypothetical Sansa/Robin sex is even taking place. I guess Sansa murdering children would not be enough, she has to also start sexually abusing them. Hey, maybe we could throw in some cannibalism, too? Maybe she starts killing children and then baking and eating them (after luring them to her gingerbread house)? Just to complete things, you know…

    Also, you are all aware that “Sansa seducing Robin in order to manipulate him” would logically consist of her giving him her teat to suck?

    Wimsey: That wasn’t filler: that was adaptation.The book gave us

    at Craster’s Keep, after all.As that character (“”?) is cut, they either needed to transfer the deeds to someone else, or cut it.As this is one of the few remotely cinematic things that happens on Bran’s journey (or could have been, with some tweaking), it was an obvious candidate for adapting.

    What?After 18 years, Sansa finally gets remotely interesting, and you want her to take a year off?!?!?At any rate, I suspect that she’ll have the exact same story as in the books: she’s just going to start and end higher.

    Personally, I prefer her portrayal in the books where she is actually interesting rather than remotely interesting, but to each their own.

  133. Wimsey,

    There were plenty of more/better ways of getting rid of the mutineers at Crasters. Bran didn’t need to be anywhere near there nor Jon. Would have been a good opportunity to have the White Walkers/wights pop their heads up to remind people they’re still a threat ( seeing as we were diddled out of the confrontation at the Fist of the First Men) or they could have actually introduced Coldhands then used him to guide Sam and Gilly south and Bran et al north (would have been a lot better having him face off against a gang of non-CGI wights/skeletons than the fireball/CGI skelly debacle!). Wouldn’t even have had to cast a well know actor with him being covered up. There were better ways of doing it than dragging two main characters into it and also throwing Locke up there who served no purpose up there at all and was wasted after tehy’d built some interest in him ( I still think he would have been better served as himself and a couple of goons dueling with Brienne as would have made more sense with their history and they could have put over Pod/built his relationship with Brienne as well with him taking the Gendry role of spearing one of her attackers in the back of the head when she’s looking in trouble). But meh we’ll see what happens.
    As I said, if it’s part of her story going forward then fine but I’m not for trying to shove roun d pegs in square holes. If there’s nothing for her to do then let her do nothing until it’s relevant. Screentime for the sake of screentime is not a luxury this series can afford!

  134. Annara Snow: Or, you know, they may not show a sex scene between Robin and Sansa because it’s an utterly ludicrous idea by a fan on a forum that will never happen in the show or books…

    Tell ya what, Bananarama, go read Meathouse Man, Portraits of His Children and/or The Pear-Shaped Man. After that (and a cleansing shower) you’ll understand that it would actually be surprising if there isn’t a sex scene between Robin and Sansa in the books.

  135. Cumsprite: Tell ya what, Bananarama, go read Meathouse Man, Portraits of His Children and/or The Pear-Shaped Man. After that (and a cleansing shower) you’ll understand that it would actually be surprising if there isn’t a sex scene between Robin and Sansa in the books.

    I don’t know who Bananarama is, but I suggest you go read some of your own fanfiction/porn of choice, because, sorry to break it to you in and dash your hopes of feasting your eyes on Sexy Pedo Child Abuser/Serial Killer Sansa, the only sex that could even theoretically happen between Sansa and Robin would be him sucking on her (CGI) teat.

    Unless that’s what you’re hoping for? Luckily, there’s still that CGI Lysa teat you can enjoy.

  136. Annara Snow,

    I “think” the titles named are short stories by Martin (I recognize the Pear one).

    I do agree with you though and am kind of suicked by all of this speculation.

  137. Annara Snow,

    Because I do not categorically rule it out, doesn’t mean I want it to happen. I don’t care either way, really. Maybe you are not familiar with George Martin’s other works, but for all of his Faulkner “heart in conflict with itself” navel gazing, a lot of what he writes is grimdark porn. Your dismissing the possibility of Robert/Sansa sexyfuntimes so assertively is strange. Is there something you would like to share with the class?

    As for Lysa’s CGI titties, I can assure you that you’ve seen more of them than I.

  138. Annara Snow: I don’t know who Bananarama is, but I suggest you go read some of your own fanfiction/porn of choice, because, sorry to break it to you in and dash your hopes of feasting your eyes on Sexy Pedo Child Abuser/Serial Killer Sansa, the only sex that could even theoretically happen between Sansa and Robin would be him sucking on her (CGI) teat.

    Unless that’s what you’re hoping for? Luckily, there’s still that CGI Lysa teat you can enjoy.

    You’ve never heard of Bananarama?! As a child of the 80s this amazes me. Such classics as It Ain’t What You Do,Really Saying Something, Shy Boy,Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye,Cruel Summer, Robert De Niro’s Waiting, Love in the First Degree and Venus! You must have heard of at least two of these songs?!

    Anyway… Are you opposed to a paedo Sansa turn because of which character it is or because she’s a woman? Game of Thrones isn’t the place to get precious about gender or attachments to certain characters. If it’s done in a way that makes the story more interesting/better then I’m all for it.

  139. I have a feeling Bananarama has a strong bias against the idea of Robert/Sensa sexyfuntimes. Probably has something to do with finding out that Nestor the Long-Eared Christmas Donkey isn’t real.

    Yeah, it’s really gross and gratuitous, but this is the American Tolkien we’re talking about! Who is so bold as to try and limit this man’s imagination?

  140. TheTouchOfFrost: You’ve never heard of Bananarama?! As a child of the 80s this amazes me. Such classics as It Ain’t What You Do,Really Saying Something, Shy Boy,Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye,Cruel Summer, Robert De Niro’s Waiting, Love in the First Degree and Venus! You must have heard of at least two of these songs?!

    I’m perfectly aware of a lame 80s pop band called Bananarama. I just didn’t know it was a person or that they posted around here. Or maybe someone is just delusional. Yeah, that’s probably it.

    So… you’re looking forward to Femme Fatale Child Abuser/Serial Killer/Cannibal Sansa, eh? Nah, I think it’s high time that Sansa proved that she’s really the Worst Person in Westeros (you thought that was a joke?). Ramsay, Craster and Rorge got nothin’ on her. She’s gonna break every taboo and commit every evil, oh yeah. It’s inevitable – she has an evil Goth dress. Everyone knows that Goths must, at least, suck people’s blood. (And I should know. I kill a few people, drink their blood and turn them into pies every time I go out on a Goth night. The black clothes have that effect.) I’m just wondering how sexy the fanboys would really find it if they got their sexy scenes of little Robin sucking on her CGI teat… but hey, to each their own.

  141. TheTouchOfFrost,

    You shut up! YOU SHUT UP RIGHT NOW! Susannah Hoffs was flawless. True, they weren’t the Go-Gos, but they were OK.

    This thread’s Bananarama has some real issues, though. I’m wondering where she gets thinking Darth Sansa is sexy to some of the posters in this thread. Projecting, if you ask me.

  142. Annara Snow,

    You seem a lot less familiar with sarcasm unless your next paragraph was an attempt at it!?
    Peel aside your rather over the top exagerrating to make a point, why is it so unbelievable to imagine Sansa may do something not particularly endearing? I’m looking forward to interesting character development in whatever form it takes. Your mind seems a little pre-occupied with sex if you’ve really thought about how Sansa theoretically seducing Robin would play out?! Just keep telling yourself, this isn’t really happening. It’s a A TV show in a made up medieval fantasy world and I’m sure you’ll be fine.

  143. Annara Snow,

    The last refuge of the desperate: calling those who disagree with you trolls. Robert/Sansa sexyfuntimes is on the table, like it or not. You’ve already moved the goal posts once in your categorical denial. Anything can happen in this thing. Sorry it upsets you so.

  144. Annara Snow,

    Bizarrely, you’re the only person who’s seriously going on about sexual scenes between the two. Are you one of these fan boys you speak of as I can’t see anyone else here who’s that pre-occupied with it?

  145. TheTouchOfFrost,

    I think that has something to do with it. Faced with the possibility that Martin is a creepy motherfucker who would struggle writing if you took away his pornfic and not the Grand Poo-bah of the genre, she’s lashing out.

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