The Tweets of Dragons

59b2ce069fd1ab82904d9cf7e78f2244Hiyo, the Artist Formerly Known As Fire And Blood coming at you live from the smoking remnants of Daznak’s Pit and Stannis’s torched camp, here to bring you an array of toasted meats of an entirely different sort!

Twitter time! You know what that means!

I’m not even f’n’a hold y’all back. Let’s get right to business, shall we? Because as usual, you’re gonna be on this page for most of the afternoon – there’s no need to linger here reading this dreck.

Let’s get to the real dreck!

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68 responses

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    1. Cayrouse,

      In the inside the episodes they state “When george told us this happened”. So it may not have happened in the books YET. They didn’t make this one up.

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    2. Axechucker – I don’t actually expect anything if you like my answer, but you should know that a no-prize (at least from Marvel comics) is an actual thing that Marvel sent out to fans who won them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_No-Prize

      There’s nothing in the books that mandates why they would approach from the Northern side of the wall, but other than cinematic opportunity for the Jon Snow – Alliser Thorne staredown, I think that there may be a logical reason why they would march to Castle Black from the Northern side of the wall rather than the Southern side.

      If they landed at Eastwatch and then continued to march West to CB on the Southern side, they would be marching 5000 wildlings through Umber and Bolton lands, past Last Hearth and the Dreadfort, as well as countless towns and settlements. I would expect that they would meet opposition or panic at every one of these settlements.

      Marching from the Northern side offers no opposition or panic from Northerners and also offers Jon the opportunity to keep the Wildlings from running off and doing whatever they liked, at least until they were through Castle Black.

      I’m sure there will never be an explanation given on the show, but to me, it makes sense that the Northern side of the Wall is the easier journey, unless the White Walkers attacked the Wall at that exact moment, in which case everyone is screwed anyway.

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    3. In friggin’ heaven at Mace having a scene this week and Twitter picking up on NOT NOW MACE. Heaveeennnn.

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    4. bigb,

      We do, hence a “Mercy” reference. I think Axey was trying to keep it on the DL because that’s stepping slightly into the next book’s territory and people want to remain unspoiled.

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    5. Darren: If they landed at Eastwatch and then continued to march West to CB on the Southern side, they would be marching 5000 wildlings through Umber and Bolton lands, past Last Hearth and the Dreadfort, as well as countless towns and settlements. I would expect that they would meet opposition or panic at every one of these settlements.

      All the land from The Wall to 50 leagues south belongs to the Night’s Watch. (If we are going by book canon, of course. Don’t remember if this was ever mentioned in the show.)

      Last Hearth and the Dreadfort are much further to the south – hundreds of miles. There are settlements in this area (like Olly’s village), though, so there would be some opposition, but nothing as big as getting involved with the Boltons or one of the other main houses.

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    6. Here’s my contribution song for Episode 9, featuring a favorite fellow-Dutchie of mine on the show: Carice van Houten’s Melisandre. She actually is a pretty good singer, any chance she’ll sing this?

      Barbecue (Melisandre) / Waterloo (Abba)

      My, my, a Barbecue coz the night is full of terrors,
      Oh yeah, We’ll roast a juicy inn’cent, so Rh’llor can show us the way
      The Boltons are holding us back,
      Baratheons want to attack!

      Barbecue – Leeches or Shadows won’t help us here
      Barbecue – king’s meat will bring all you needed to
      Barbecue – Let Stannis conquer the iron throne
      Barbecue – Know it’s his fate – throw the guy a bone
      Barbecue – Finally having a Barbecue

      Up North, they serve some bloody tough good steaks, but ours are better
      Oh yeah, and now my fiery heart tells you to burn this girl
      Check my naked body, I’m hot
      Kneel now, all you hail the Red God!

      Barbecue – Davos can’t bug us, we sent him far
      Barbecue – Shireen is roasting, we’ll win the war
      Barbecue – Sacrifice cleanses the entire realm
      Barbecue – We’ll beat the Great Other now keep your calm
      Barbecue – Finally having a Barbecue

      One princess, a small price to pay,
      Now Lightbringer show us the way!

      Barbecue – Brought to you by Binders from Asshai
      Barbecue – Rh’llor will bring back Azor Ahai
      Barbecue – Finally having a Barbecue

      Previous contributions:
      Episode 6 Ramsay/Reek – Flayin’ Alive (Bee Gees – Stayin’ Alive)
      http://watchersonthewall.com/the-cast-of-game-of-thrones-goes-musical-for-red-nose-day/
      Episode 7 Sam/Gill-Y – Crazy in Love (Beyoncé/Jay-Z – Crazy in Love)
      http://watchersonthewall.com/goo280/#comment-344298
      Episode 8 Night’s King – Don’t Stop me Now (Queen – Don’t Stop me Now)
      (plus some other folks made some fun efforts on Black Raven and can’t hurry George)
      http://watchersonthewall.com/game-of-thrones-5-08-hardhome-video-recap-roundup/#comments

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    7. Right?

      So obvious!

      bigb:
      I’m amazed at how people don’t see the obvious prostitute-Arya thing coming.

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    8. Darren,
      That was my thought too. Too many northern lords to contend with, plus the North is pretty effed up now with the split on who supports the Bolton’s and who doesn’t. Plus Stannis’ army is on the march…it would be a mess to move that many wildlings through the north.

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    9. i generally watch the new episode twice, back-to-back, on Sunday night… this was the first week in a long time where i decided i just couldn’t do it. i was gonna just wait and re-watch it right before the finale.

      then these tweets reminded me about Mace’s singing, and so now I’m super jacked to pop it on when i get home.

      All these comments about “Cersei is the best parent left in Westeros” and “nobody left to cheer for but the Boltons” gtfo… MACE TYRELL = 1 TRUE KING 4 EVA!!! i really want him to align with Baelish and Walder Frey somehow, talk about a dream team, am i right?

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    10. Brilliant stuff, amazing job as always thank you. The memes at the beginning in particular had me laughing out loud. Wun Direction. Row row row your boat gently the fuck out of Hardhome. Genius.

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    11. FreyJoy: Now Lightbringer show us the way!

      Good one…but the Baratheon delusion (propagated by Mel) continues…

      “The sword is wrong, she has to know that…light without heat…an empty glamour…the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness.”
      — Aemon to Sam

      The grand fraud shall be illuminated soon…

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    12. Thanks for the tweetcap, Axechucker. This is the first time I’ve managed to smile about the last episode since…well, the screaming.
      And why the hell is the show doing its damndest to make me like Alliser! Of all people! And why is it working! smh

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    13. Hodor’s Bastard: Good one…but the Baratheon delusion (propagated by Mel) continues…
      “The sword is wrong, she has to know that…light without heat…an empty glamour…the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness.”
      — Aemon to Sam
      The grand fraud shall be illuminated soon…

      Given what happened this episode what will Stannis do if Mel suddenly says “I was wrong about you. Your not the one. Its ….”

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    14. I wonder if D&D bit negative treatment of Stannis was because GRRM told them before season 2 what Stannis would do in the future so that colored their opinion of him. Certaily they knew by season 3 since Shireen was given more screen time than in the books. I had previously assumed that they did not like Stannis since they seem rather anti-religion but this makes more sense in the end.

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    15. John:
      CURTAIN CALL – Where are you??

      Kerry Ingram!!!!!!!!!

      Joel Fry!!

      Hizdahr may actually have faked his death… He could have had goons attack him with fake knives. Watch the scene again, and you’ll see it could be a possibility. (but probably unlikely)

      But I would not rule out a Hizdahr return in the finale! 🙂

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    16. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Maybe I should have put some allusions of doubt in there. I’m sure Melisandre will be singing a different song in due time, I agree 🙂

      First let’s see how this Brienne – Stannis meeting that was foreshadowed will turn out. And with a busy episode with at least 4 major storylines covered:

      Winterfell
      the Wall
      Braavos
      Kings Landing

      Then we’ll see some Meereen too…

      I am betting this will be the longest episode of the year…. 70 minutes please?

      I’m not convinced Dany or Dorne will be back.

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    17. FreyJoy,

      Dany is in the episode summary – she’ll be back, and one of the Sand Snake actresses says they will also be in the finale. Oh how I wish it could be about 80 mins to get everything in!

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    18. Richard: Given what happened this episode what will Stannis do if Mel suddenly says “I was wrong about you. Your not the one. Its ….”

      That shot in the preview of Stannis’ leading his troops and wielding his sword gives me the shivers. I bet Mel will be gone by then. Should be a stunning, gut-wrenching episode.

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    19. One thing that I think was lost on some show only viewers is that while Drogon unquestionably DID save Dany at Daznak’s Pit, she saved him also. He was vulnerable staying on the ground and if he had stayed there one of those spears may have eventually landed somewhere they could hurt him. He wasn’t going to leave her, so her motherly instinct told her to tell him to fly.

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    20. On the GoT Wiki you can see a picture of

      Cersei and the High Sparrow

      which I hadn’t seen anywhere else yet

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    21. Geralt of Rivia,

      That does bring up a huge issue with regards to Jon & FTW. Is it 1) WWs taking him away, 2) Jon warging Ghost, or 3) will Wun Wun save him?

      Bex,
      Ok, I’ll adjust with Gendry and Jon in mind…she is an “egotistical tramp blinded by her faith.” (show only) 🙂

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    22. Brandon One Eye:
      One thing that I think was lost on some show only viewers is that while Drogon unquestionably DID save Dany at Daznak’s Pit, she saved him also. He was vulnerable staying on the ground and if he had stayed there one of those spears may have eventually landed somewhere they could hurt him. He wasn’t going to leave her, so her motherly instinct told her to tell him to fly.

      the fact that the spears had any effect on him at all was stupid

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    23. Roose On The Loose,

      No,it wasn’t,Drogon is still supposed to be a baby at this point in the series,he’s only what 3 or 4 years old,also i think they needed to do that because if they show the dragons as all invincible,then the threat of the White Walkers doesn’t seem so big,they need to show that they are vulnerable and they can get hurt or maybe even die,just like last week with the killing of that WW. You need to have a balance otherwise the final battle won’t have so much emotion invested into it if you know one part is pretty much unbeatable .

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    24. Brandon One Eye:
      One thing that I think was lost on some show only viewers is that while Drogon unquestionably DID save Dany at Daznak’s Pit, she saved him also. He was vulnerable staying on the ground and if he had stayed there one of those spears may have eventually landed somewhere they could hurt him. He wasn’t going to leave her, so her motherly instinct told her to tell him to fly.

      Not a book reader and that is exactly how I interpreted that scene. Drogon was just going to stay on the ground shielding her with his body, not even flying about and dracarys-ing, so he was going to take bolt after bolt and one could eventually pierce his eye. So she did what a good mom should: abandon everything/everyone to save her child. Completely opposite of someone else in the same episode, in Westeros.

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    25. “Men are so gross.” Thanks for the casual sexism, SayWhatSugar 🙂 I don’t make comments like that about women.

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    26. John,

      I’m not convinced that Hizdahr is dead… those stabs were in mostly non-lethal places and he was awfully suspiciously late making sure “everything was in order.”

      ETA: Lars beat me to it.

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    27. Kay: So she did what a good mom should: abandon everything/everyone to save her child. Completely opposite of someone else in the same episode, in Westeros.

      I kind of wish that her dress has caught on fire because Drogon’s skin is so hot like in the books so it would have been clear that they COULDN’T go with her…

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    28. Salvatore Leone:
      Roose On The Loose,

      No,it wasn’t,Drogon is still supposed to be a baby at this point in the series,he’s only what 3 or 4 years old,also i think they needed to do that because if they show the dragons as all invincible,then the threat of the White Walkers doesn’t seem so big,they need to show that they are vulnerable and they can get hurt or maybe even die,just like last week with the killing of that WW. You need to have a balance otherwise the final battle won’t have so much emotion invested into it if you know one part is pretty much unbeatable .

      So it takes Valyrian steel to kill a WW but a dragon can be hurt by 50 retards with run of the mill spears.I understand your point, but no thats not what happened here

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    29. Roose On The Loose,

      Not really. It would have been a lot dumber if he hadn’t reacted. A mosquito bite does not do lasting damage but you feel it. Those spears in the tough parts of his hide didn’t do lasting damage but I think his reaction was appropriate. The danger was if he caught one of those long spears thrown with Jorah like force in the eye or somewhere else less protected. If I remember my Westerosi history properly it was a bolt through the eye that felled a bigger Meraxes in Dorne.

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    30. umuckurlife,

      Hee, I needed a laugh, thanks for that!

      I am not on twitter, but if I were, I would have typed : DRAGON, TO STANNIS, STAT! SOMEONE NEEDS A BIT OF HIS OWN MEDICINE

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    31. Brandon One Eye:
      Roose On The Loose,

      Not really. It would have been a lot dumber if he hadn’t reacted. A mosquito bite does not do lasting damage but you feel it. Those spears in the tough parts of his hide didn’t do lasting damage but I think his reaction was appropriate.The danger was if he caught one of those long spears thrown with Jorah like force in the eye or somewhere else less protected. If I remember my Westerosi history properly it was a bolt through the eye that felled a bigger Meraxes in Dorne.

      Fair point. There is no one that can throw with Jorah like force only Jorah 🙂

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    32. Amazing post this week. But fuck, it was really really hard to feel triumphant about Dany riding into the sunset atop her Drogo-copter in the wake of the horror of Shireen’s screaming, begging for her parents to not burn her alive moments prior. 🙁 Her screams(and the equally heart-wrenching wails of Selyse) were still echoing in my head throughout all of Daznak’s.

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    33. 5mash rocks. Even a Final Fantasy 7 reference.

      If Dany is is an example of inbreeding – then Jon is that cute pet store outcross. The puppy mill would have called him

      a Stargarian, or a Tark to trick people into adopting him. With those puppy dog eyes, who wouldn’t…

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    34. Roose On The Loose,

      So it takes Valyrian steel to kill a WW but a dragon can be hurt by 50 retards with run of the mill spears.

      Well, that’s exactly what happen during the riots in King’s Landing during 130 AC. Of course, they were more than 50, but they were smallfolk with even poorer weaponry, and they manage to kill 5 adult dragons.

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    35. I had a hard time even connecting to the Dany scene because Shireen’s screaming was going through my head. I’m glad to know that I wasn’t the only one.

      Moving on to happier things, thanks for the recap and thanks again for including me. We have some really funny and amazing people in this fandom.

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    36. It kinda amazes me how much book readers are still freaking out at D&D still here at the end of season five with the fanfic/canon stuff. The two of them have prepared people for deviations at every step of the way and honestly, the deviations have been LESS than I expected. Brienne and Jaime didn’t make utterly pointless circles around the map (well, maybe they did…) and we didn’t get that thrilling “Sansa is marrying the kennelmaster’s cousin’s horse who also happens to be heir!” storyline. Boo hoo. And are people just in denial about being spoiled through the show? The show is going to end before the books, it’s probably time to accept it.

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    37. Darren:
      There’s nothing in the books that mandates why they would approach from the Northern side of the wall, but other than cinematic opportunity for the Jon Snow – Alliser Thorne staredown, I think that there may be a logical reason why they would march to Castle Black from the Northern side of the wall rather than the Southern side.

      Thank you for this.

      Yeah, in the books they did not travel from Hardhome. It is mentioned that part of the wildlings fled there after the battle of Castle Black, so CB was a clearer option as an entering point.

      I agree with you that it was made for cinematic purposes. But just for the sake of having some explanation, here are my 5 cents:

      1) Jon did not want the wildings to disband so early. If they went from the southern side, there are no guarantees they would go with him to Castle Black, where he needs to organize them. More time with them would give the wildlings time to understand that he is the leader they need.

      2) Jon had to return the boats to Lord BBQ’s armada and since they had come from the northern side of the wall to attack the wildings during the CB battle, they may have been anchored somewhere north of Eastwatch-by-the-sea. Those boats were not Jon’s to decide where to drop them. The captains could have their orders, and these may have been “come back here, take no detours”. They knew conditions where they disembarked Stannis’ army were suitable for disembarking lots of people, so they went back there. It was never made clear that Stannis had disembarked exactly at Eastwatch-by-the sea. Who knows if that castle had the capacity for handling a huge army or massive migration?

      3) Some people have argued that they could have gone further south to drop them, but as I understand, there are no important towns or cities until further south, so it made no sense to make a longer walk back to Castle Black through rougher terrains, since the main roads don’t connect those places to Castle Black. If any roads existed, would probably lead to Eastwatch?

      4) The north side of the wall is supposed to have an area cleared of woods, so they can see who approaches from the north. There is no mention of to the state of the southern side, since so many castles are in ruins. If it was for communication between the main castles, I don’t think there would be a wide enough road to accomodate 5 thousand people walking on that side?

      Just saying…

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    38. Once again I agreed with your remarks on Stannis. The Mannis is almost the Superego become flesh. The only thing that matters to him is right and duty. Sacrifice is entirely woven into his character, which makes him a fantastic tragic antihero.
      It would be a shame for him to be stabbed in the belly by Brienne. He has to become a hermit, having to live for the rest of his life with the decisions he has made. All the sacrifices he has made for something he firmly believes to be the greater good, but will unfortunately be based on mistakes made by Mel.

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    39. How can you say

      Yeah. Let’s be real here, Stannis Baratheon burns anyone who doesn’t agree with him – including his relatives.

      followed by

      Dillane and Cunningham make rereads of Davos chapters enjoyable

      , few lines after?

      In the books (i.e. in the chapters about Stannis) he does NOT ever burn any relatives for something like “not agreeing with him”.
      In fact he never burns anyone for that reason.

      Here is the ENTIRE list of people stannis burns in the books.
      1) Someone who wanted to kidnap shireen and send her to Kingslanding to beg for a truce, behind his back.
      2) Cannibals who ate one of his soldier.
      3) The (well, glamoured) ruler of the wildlings, who brought an army of 10’s of thousands of fighters to attack the Night’s Watch, and then raid Westeros.

      I don’t know about you, but I read 1, 2, 3, and I don’t see anything REMOTELY CLOSE to justify “Well you see him burn other people, so why are you surprised he burned Shireen as well?”.

      In fact, in that book-equivalent scene, stuck in a storm, his soldiers ask him to burn an unbeliever to stop the storm, to which Stannis replies that he will have no burning, and they should just pray harder. What do you think he would’ve said if they suggested to HOLY SHIT, burn his own daughter?

      That is of course if you’re talking about the books, as your “chapters” thing make me think. If you’re talking about the show, well I guess it just snowballs with the season 4 scene of Stannis burning people who refused to follow his religion.

      And now we’re (People who support/supported Stannis) in a lose-lose situation.
      If he wins against the Bolton and is eventually successful… we’ll, a monster just won. He’s just the next villain to kill then?

      And if he loses and get killed by Brienne or Sansa or Hotpie or whoever the hell they decide will kill Stannis… How can we complain? Complaining about Stannis getting killed would now just be like complaining about Ramsay getting killed, or Joffrey’s death. Because he’s a monster.

      But not my monster. Screw that abomination they wrote on the show. Book Stannis is still my rightful King, and Shireen is a thousand leagues away from him. If she gets roasted – and I assume she will – it will not be at Stannis command.

      Melisandre and Selyse will be at fault (maybe some Queen’s men too), not Stannis.

      Edit : And the only other relative he “killed” is Renly (if you consider Stannis guilty of that, but the lines in the books aren’t exactly pointing in that direction), a man who wanted to usurp his crown and his throne. Renly was no better than any other of the usurpers.

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    40. Gregor,

      To be completely fair, Stannis also kills Ser Cortnay Penrose through a shadow rather than dueling him, and wanted to let Mel burn Edric Storm. Furthermore Lord Sunglass and two sons of House Rambton.
      I think it’s weird some people liked him as a person, and are now far too emotional about their hatred for him. Stannis is a great character, and remains so.

      Let’s have it for Stannis in ASOS:
      “I never asked for this crown. Gold is cold and heavy on the head, but so long as I am the king, I have a duty … If I must sacrifice one child to the flames to save a million from the dark … Sacrifice … is never easy, Davos. Or it is no true sacrifice.”

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    41. Gregor,

      I seem to remember he burnt At least one of Selyse’s brothers. Both in book and show. Granted not exactly burning your kid. But not very far away either

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    42. Love these Wednesday threads, Axey 🙂 I don’t care if the whole of Westeros and Essos goes to Seven Hells in a hand basket, you don’t kill your own brother and daughter. I don’t care what Melly Sanders says/does for him. Let it all burn/freeze before you kill your own kin. Mad Kings and Tywin excepting.

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    43. FreyJoy:
      Gregor,

      I seem to remember he burnt At least one of Selyse’s brothers. Both in book and show. Granted not exactly burning your kid. But not very far away either

      Well yes, I mentioned that in my post. The Selyse’s brother who died was the traitor. He was writing a letter for Kingslanding to tell them they’d bend the knee, and would send them Shireen as an hostage to ensure their loyalty.

      Tell me, if you were a father, would you not want to kill the man who planned to send your daughter to your enemy, during a war?

      What I said was that he did not kill any relative (or anyone at all) because they “disagreed with him”, as the article said. He killed people who wanted to betray him, kidnap his daughter, cannibals, rebel kings…
      In short, people who deserved it. Maybe burning them alive wasn’t nice, maybe he should have just cut their head off like Eddard did with the desertor, or Robb did with Karstark? But they had to die, either way.
      Shireen didn’t have to, on the other hand, and she’s his daughter… He would never do that.
      And yes, Shireen will probably die in the books too. But Stannis isn’t with her. He’s leagues away. If she dies, it’s gonna be Melisandre’s command.
      But the showrunners went a long way to make sure Stannis would be the one responsible. They could’ve really well let her at the wall. But they’ve had 3 scenes to explain why Shireen was with them. The selyse/melisandre scene, and 2 scenes with Davos. They REALLY wanted it to be Stannis’ thing, and why? In the book it’s not even sure that Stannis even believes in that religion. He refuses stuff to R’hllor’s follower, he talks of GODS (with an S) a couple times, he tells Davos that regardless of Melisandre having power or not, men are scared of her, so it’s a good person to have around…
      He burns traitors rather than killing them in any other way. That’s the only thing Stannis does abotu the religion, and that’s nothing at all.

      Lollius Palicanus:
      Gregor,

      To be completely fair, Stannis also kills Ser Cortnay Penrose through a shadow rather than dueling him, and wanted to let Mel burn Edric Storm. Furthermore Lord Sunglass and two sons of House Rambton.

      Well yes, but Cortnay was also his enemy, and a “traitor” to his cause, i.e. following a different king and refusing to obey his orders. Is the mean of execution that important? If one of Stannis’ archer had killed Cortnay standing there on the battlement, no one would’ve judged Stannis badly for that. It’s war. You kill your enemy in war.

      But Stannis (or rather, Melisandre) used magic and stuff, so it’s bad. But that’s all they have. It’s like blaming Stannis for Renly’s death by magic… What’s he supposed to do? Face him in the field against 20x larger numbers? Or let him be king in his stead?

      If an enemy attacks you and you don’t have a gun or knife in hand, you’ll use whatever you have at hands to fight. If it’s a flashlight it’s a flashlight, if it’s a chair then hit him with the chair. You use what you have.
      All Stannis had at that point, is Melisandre.

      But Shireen isn’t an enemy. She’s his daughter for christ sake, the daughter he – in the books – wants to see his army fight for, should Stannis die. And he didn’t kill her to save the world of an impending doom ( as he considered doing with Edric ). He killed her because they were stuck in the snow. And had no food because Stannis is apparently an incompetent battle commander who got screwed by 20 men just because “they knew the terrain better”, as if that helps at all in that situation.

      In the books, Roose (who should know the terrain as well) mentions that ‘Stannis could be 15 feets away from their gate and they wouldn’t even know it’, because the storms and all that. But Ramsay uses that “advantage” to sneak in an enemy camp with 20 men and cause damage enough for 6k men to be in a lost cause?

      Why even burn the tents?
      Why not just kill Stannis in his sleep? Surely he doesn’t have more than 20 guards in his tent, if his defense is that poor that people can sneak in and out that easily.

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