The Tower of Joy filming has begun: here come the photos and spoilers!

Castillo de Zafra

Cameras were rolling today at the Castillo de Zafra, the castle in Spain serving as the location for a legendary scene from the A Song of Ice and Fire novels. Game of Thrones production has been prepping at the Tower of Joy site for several days and we have a report to share with fans direct from the shooting location, courtesy of Los Siete Reinos.

The exciting report will of course contain major spoilers, so consider yourselves warned! There will be images and a video below.

First off, L7R‘s Javi captured this quick video of the filming, taken from a distance:

L7R reports they haven’t yet seen Isaac Hempstead-Wright (spotted staying in town near the shooting location) or horses today. They were able to extract some images of Ned Stark, Arthur Dayne and the fight at the tower. Here are a few photos; stop by L7R for their complete gallery!

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The woman in white on the left in the photos below is believed to be Lyanna Stark. (She’s wearing the blue hair wrap often see by actresses on the show, used to protect wigs.)

L7R has edited this bit and we think it may be someone holding a reflector for lighting purposes:

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For more screencaps and images of the location, visit Los Siete Reinos.

I’m incredibly excited to see the sequence come together. I can’t wait to see some epic swordplay.

389 responses

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    1. It looks like I was right when I said that only Dayne will be there. A 1-vs.-4 fight should be preaty good. EDIT: didn’t see the guy on the ground..hmm, we might still get all 3 KG, or it could be a dead northener.
      Its so interesting!!

      Now only one thing remains to be confirmed….Sean Bean!!

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    2. That looks like Sean Bean so incredibly much…in the middle photo of the strip of three, 6th from the left. Tell me that doesn’t look like Mr Bean?

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    3. Are we sure that’s Lyanna? You wouldn’t expect someone who has just given birth and is supposed to be dying, to be outside during all of this. So she shouldn’t be filming any outside scenes, right?

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    4. Because of the significance of this scene, I wonder if we will revisit it throughout the season…
      Also, a man needs names. Sue, you’re my girl.

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    5. It kinda does, but if it’s a younger actor I’m sure he’ll look very much like Sean Bean as well. Here’s to hoping though!

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    6. I wouldn’t be surprised if it was actually Sean Bean and that’s why they’ve been mum on mentioning the actor. It’s gonna be awesome either way but one can hope 😉

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    7. from a distance Young Ned is SPOT on.. (if they couldnt keep Kit hidden no way they can keep Sean Bean a secret… right?)

      cant wait till our little birds clue us in to who is playing Lyanna !!!

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    8. Mihnea,

      I hoped for him as well, because I thought it is important to have continuity of Ned’s look, but if he is played by a different actor, they did (again!) a really good job, so I think Bean is not needed.

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    9. I am not seeing a woman in white with a blue towel head……………..gah
      also what would Lyanna be doing outside? she’s supposed to be in the top of the tower in a bed.
      gah again

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    10. Sue, you just won the internet. Thank you for all you do!

      Also, why does the one video we have so far have to be so shaky and bad quality?? LOL I’m over her with my face to the screen watching on repeat. Thanks Luka Nieto for stabilizing; it helped some.

      The thought of this scene with Sean Bean is enough to give me a heart attack. I am dying with antici…………………..pation.

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    11. RFT:
      It’s a guy in a blue shirt holding a light reflector thingie.Not a woman!

      I thought the same thing. Just looks like a shape of a reflector or something.

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    12. Someone confirm that is Sean Bean ASAP. I will die if Ned has been re-cast. The the hair and stance are telling me yes. I NEED TO KNOW NOW!

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    13. Exit81:
      Fu Manchu,

      They could CGI the cloaks in later in post production. Fighting with that much actual weight on your back is difficult.

      A silk cape/cloak is no weight at all ….

      Ok so we all agree there is no woman in white in those pictures … 🙂
      Hot the hell did the mods see the blue hairnet on a invisible woman is beyond me.

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    14. Can anyone make out how many people are actually involved in the fight? It looks like Dayne vs four, possibly five people (all of which seem to die save for Ned).

      I’m also 100% certain that’s Eddie Eyre playing Arthur Dayne. It looks like him from his Twitter pic.

      Also, it seems Howland Reed is either not there or is one of the people who dies…

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    15. Thanks all for clarification. I only saw the guy in blue shirt. I thought I must be losing my mind.
      Appears in the second photo, the 3rd person from the right is younger Ned?

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    16. I still doubt we will get all 3 KG…there has been no casting call unlike Dayne, and I would expect that for someone who has lines. No actor getting some ”random” role like Eyree.
      That guy on the floor could easly be a stuntman, or trainer, just like the guy in the back.

      So until we have more information, I will still expect there to be only Dayne.

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    17. Mihnea: Or they could take their cloaks off? It is preaty hot in Dorne after all.

      I think they do. The pictures before the fighting starts (I assume), it looks like they do have cloaks on. They either remove them before fighting or it’s CGI later for the fight.

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    18. Exit81,

      Capes/cloack are a nightmere to fight with. You never get them too look as ”epic” as you think. So it wouldn’t suprise me if they take their cloacks of, or just like you said CGI.

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    19. I hold very high hopes for Sean Bean. It would just complete the scene for me if he came back for the role. That being said, I don’t think he will come back for it. They most likely will cast another younger actor. One of the guys in the photos look like Sean bean but it’s too blurry and they would most likely have the actor resemble beans image as much as possible to keep it real. Very sad if he’s not cast but happy to know the scene is actually going to be shown though.

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    20. mau,

      Perhaps…Still tough, I would have liked Dayne to be alone, it would have made him look even more awesome.
      But until I see clear proof, I will still hope.

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    21. Wait. What?? The all scene of the batlle will be in the same place? No battle in other parts of outside the tower? No battle inside the tower?

      I hope the battle take other places. Like the soldiers walking during the scene..batlle some place near to the tower, then go to tje tower e finish there.

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    22. Luka Nieto,

      Maybe the actress has some external scenes, so maybe she just enjoyed the fight and was spotted chilling outside with other crew members, and L7S spotted her, but she is not on the pictures, or at least I am blind and can not see her.

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    23. I put this on the other thread without realizing the pictures were already up here (damn, Sue, you’re quick! 🙂 ), and I see 6 people who look like they’re part of the fight, plus one on the ground, although I really can’t tell if the one on the ground is a human or a horse.

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    24. At this point, I’ll be surprised if I’m surprised by anything next season by the time it rolls around. 🙂 I’m a spoiler fan – I read movie summaries before I see them, I read the last page of a book almost immediately, and I check out any spoiler photos/videos that I come across. It is a little sad though, that so much gets through the cracks, or isn’t even feasible to keep under wraps anymore.

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    25. mau,

      They could, but I still would’ve liked to meet him in the show. 🙁

      I also would’ve loved the classic seven against three… but I’ll settle for five against one.

      “I learned from Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, who could have slain all five of you with his left hand while he was taking a piss with the right.”

      Either way, this fight looks intense as hell. I can’t fucking wait.

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    26. That guy looks a little skinnier than Sean Bean, but he’s got the same suit as Ned from season one, so it’s probably him. (Ned, not Bean)

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    27. It’s hilarious to me that so many people are so invested in the accuracy of a fight scene that has not been written yet. Ned’s dream ends just before the fight! GRRM basically had a bunch of cool characters say cool stuff (“And now it begins” / “No, now it ends” is an 80’s action movie one-liner if there ever was one!), and the fans imagined the rest. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not here to complain or kill the hype or anything. I’m quite excited myself! It’s just that some people are complaining about the accuracy to the books of a fight scene that hasn’t been depicted in the books yet… and that’s quite funny.

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    28. I’m hoping for Bean as well…very much so. But let us face it–any actor with roughly his build, the right wig and the right armor would pass at that distance. Close-ups and verbal similarity will be the true test. And that we won’t know for a while. I do find it interesting that so far there’s no casting information one way or the other. If Sean Bean comes back. they would probably want to keep that secret. In any case, let’s hope we hear the original dulcet Sheffield tones sometime soon on the show.

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    29. Luka Nieto,

      That is why I’m against 7-3. It would be unimaginable hard to film/coreoghraph,..etc

      I would gladly take a good 4-1 fight rether then a mediocre 7-3 one.

      But people would complain anyway.
      ”it isn’t 7-vs.-3!!!”
      ”it isn’t how I imagined it”

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    30. Robb Snow,

      Ser Arthur Dayne was the last Kingsguard standing. This is the climax, so he’s the focus of the short clip. The fight might have moved away from some of the dead on the ground, who we don’t see in frame. But I make out at least two men wearing the same armour, that’s not like what the Northmen are wearing.

      Aguero,

      I think the fight will be a bit of a mobile affair, they won’t be glued to one place.

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    31. did notice there were three men in silver plate (2 standing and one on the ground)..those appear to be the KG’s and Ned and Co look to be Northern type leather gear.

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    32. House Adder,

      I could see the actress possibly being there if they’re gonna film exterior shots of

      Ned carrying her body away from the tower. He does take her north after all.

      But until we get a confirmed spotting of her I’m assuming they filmed her stuff in Belfast.

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    33. Luka Nieto,

      Luka Nieto:
      It’s hilarious to me that so many people are so invested in the accuracy of a fight scene that has not been written yet. Ned’s dream ends just before the fight! GRRM basically had a bunch of cool characters say cool stuff (“And now it begins” / “No, now it ends” is an 80’s action movie one-liner if there ever was one!), and the fans imagined the rest. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not here to complain or kill the hype or anything. I’m quite excited myself! It’s just that some people are complaining about the accuracy to the books of a fight scene that hasn’t been depicted in the books yet… and that’s quite funny.

      I think people are just traumatized by the sand snake fight last season lol
      Thanks for the video btw!

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    34. Joffrey’s Cunt,

      Hopefully someone will do a better stabilization job and turn it horizontally. I mean, I’m thankful and shocked at having any video at all, but why did whoever who shot this video go to all the trouble to go there, yet they didn’t take care of not shaking their phone violently and shooting it in the proper horizontal shape? Whoever it was, I doubt they have filmed anything in their lives. Thanks, of course, but still… it’s basic stuff.

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    35. Joffrey’s Cunt,

      I think they are exagerating. But I won’t enter a SS debate here, it is not the place for it.

      And even if to them the SS was satan come on earth, why would you demend another fight with too many people?

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    36. The thing about Selmy being at Tower of Joy is confirmed or not? Only posible scenario would be some sort of a visit with Rhaegar. They just can’t replace Ser Arthur Dayne with Selmy. That doesn’t make much of a sense.

      mau,

      Who’s gonna tell him the truth (let’s if the theory is true, because it’s still just a theory albeit good one) ? Only other logical option besides Howland Reed is Bran somehow. Someone would have to explain to him a lot of things and how it wasn’t what people in the North learned and believed in. Official word in the North is that Rhaegar kidnapped and raped her. Mel knows about him (being powerful) but nothing more and Littlefinger knows something too. More likely that it wasn’t rape the way he was looking at Sansa,when she mentioned it.

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    37. 7 vs 3 would be a fantastic sequence, and quell any ‘but the odds are too stacked!’ types. But 4-5 vs 1 gives more detail to the main characters involved.

      Either way, I’ll watch it. 😉

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    38. Hi-Fi:
      Yeah, I can’t see the woman. I see a man in a blue shirt holding a white garment?

      Yep, a man in a blue shirt holding a photo reflector (which is white and circular).

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    39. Geralt of Rivia:
      The thing about Selmy being at Tower of Joy is confirmed or not? Only posible scenario would be some sort of a visit with Rhaegar. They just can’t replace Ser Arthur Dayne with Selmy. That doesn’t make much of a sense.

      mau,

      Who’s gonna tell him the truth (let’s if the theory is true, because it’s still just a theory albeit good one) ?

      There are many possibilities. We are not sure that Howland Reed will tell the truth in the books.

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    40. It’s weird I’ve never actually thought it would be daytime … I always pictured the TOJ happening at night under the cloak of darkness … But this looks awesome

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    41. I see 7 possible combatants in those shots, 4 guys in leathers and cloth, all up and fighting, 1 guy in plate fighting, 1 in plate down obviously dead or wounded lying in shot and a 3rd plated guy standing presumably out of shot watching the proceedings.

      I think it’s the later stages of the fight and there have already been some casualties.

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    42. darksianna,

      True, I hadn’t thought of that. That would mean including Rhaegar in flashback as well. Who knows… they might decide to go all out and remove any ambiguity about R+L=J and whether it was an abduction or not.

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    43. Javi didn’t take my criticism of his shooting abilities very well, so he threatened with denouncing the video as a copy… a copy of an illegitimately taken video. That guy is hilarious. Anyway, the stablized version is down. Hopefully L7R learn to do basic editing in the future.

      mau,

      Well, yeah. It is cheesy 😉

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    44. You know, they could be using Sean Beans image to paste it on a stunt man much like Lena Headey’s face was last season during the walk. It saves them money from having to pay Bean to come back.

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    45. Mihnea,

      Well, maybe cheesy is a strong word, but it is no better than “I’m gonna break the wheel”.

      It is inetersting that book purist hated “break the wheel”, but think that “No, now it end” are sacred words.

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    46. Still dont see lyanna. I highley doubt its her, but maybe he did see a actress on set. If the rumors are true about those two actresses present at the tower, perhaps its the other. The anonymous actress may lead Ned to his sister.

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    47. McMannis,

      It does… And he also resembles that one guy that Brienne took out right before she cut down the woman who was hanged in se3, so we’ll have to see

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    48. Mihnea,

      Honestly, I just enabled the automatic Youtube stabilization tool. Taking it down wasn’t a great loss. A lot more could be done with that footage, even considering how terribly shot it was. Hopefully someone does a proper stabilization job and turns the relevant mid-section horizontal.

      mau,

      Go figure!

      In context, I think the “break the wheel” stuff was fascinating. So many people seem to miss (or misinterpret) that she includes her own House Targaryen in her list of spokes on the wheel she wants to break. That’s a big deal, it holds a lot of meaning. Meanwhile, “No, now it ends” is just… a cheesy 80’s one-liner. A great cheesy one-liner, to be sure. But that’s what it is, nothing more.

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    49. Luka Nieto,

      Yeah my question exactly! Who films verticaly??? That is so wrong in many ways lol
      I guess he was just afraid of getting caught filming, the security there was tight probably.

      Mihnea,

      Yeah you’re right, no point. However, I think this fight has ecverything to be a memorable one, they chose people with fighting skills so I’m really confident.

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    50. Luka Nieto: It’s hilarious to me that so many people are so invested in the accuracy of a fight scene that has not been written yet. Ned’s dream ends just before the fight! GRRM basically had a bunch of cool characters say cool stuff (“And now it begins” / “No, now it ends” is an 80’s action movie one-liner if there ever was one!), and the fans imagined the rest. Don’t get me wrong; I’m not here to complain or kill the hype or anything. I’m quite excited myself! It’s just that some people are complaining about the accuracy to the books of a fight scene that hasn’t been depicted in the books yet… and that’s quite funny.

      mau:
      Luka Nieto,

      “And now it begins” / “No, now it ends” is so cheesy for me.

      I have to agree with you guys. It works ok in the books because these guys are classic (ok, cliché) knights, and might speak in that formal tone, but I’m not sure that exchange would come across well on screen.

      On the subject of the pics: I can’t see anything, let alone anyone who looks like Sean Bean! I really, really want him to be in it, but I also know he’s been super busy doing the publicity rounds for The Martian. Here’s hoping he’s been doing the last batch of interviews on skype!

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    51. Robb Snow,

      That guy on the ground could be another member of the Kingsguard. The one standing there would be good Ser Gerold Hightower. 😀 It could be 7 on 3. Two extras and Ser Arthur Dayne against couple of extras and Ned+ hopefully Howland.

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    52. OT but..
      I know that isnt the greatest video, but its more then we had a couple hours ago…lets not bite the hand that feeds us poor spoiler fiends lol

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    53. iridium:
      I have to agree with you guys. It works ok in the books because these guys are classic (ok, cliché) knights, and might speak in that formal tone, but I’m not sure that exchange would come across well on screen.

      But I’m sure they won’t change those lines, because book nerds would crucify them.

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    54. mau: It is inetersting that book purist hated “break the wheel”, but think that “No, now it end” are sacred words.

      Hehehe….. 😀 I admit I find it hilarious how universally hated “bad pussy” is among internet book-reading fandom, but apparently “Myrish swamp” and “fat pink mast” are the epitome of Awesome! Sometimes I wish that D&D had changed Tyene’s words in the show to include some form of “fat pink mast” (like “you like the nice girl, but your fat pink mast likes it here in Dorne” or something like that!) – though the vast majority of show watchers would’ve gone WTF? 😀

      Luka Nieto: n context, I think the “break the wheel” stuff was fascinating. So many people seem to miss (or misinterpret) that she includes her own House Targaryen in her list of spokes on the wheel she wants to break.

      Not only did a lot of book-readers miss that, but of those that didn’t, a lot were very puzzled WHY she included her own House too! 😀

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    55. mau,

      Well, he did compare D&D killing Stannis early to the Nazis burning books (seriously) —and that was just the beginning of a horrendous article. With that beginning, you can imagine the rest. Then he told me on Twitter that he thinks that’s a perfectly acceptable, inoffensive comparison, that all of his criticisms of D&D are valid and not ad hominems. So… yeah… kinda like Linda, I guess.

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    56. 1. I counted carefully on the one photo that seemed to show the most clarity and the most people and I see four fighting, one on the ground and two very close by in armor. That is 7 people – unless the two standing there so close watching are stunt guys……but totally a total of 7 with no Lyanna.

      2. I am sorry to say this and it was already posted, but there is a short interview with Sean Bean at a premier and the person asked if he was in a scene of GoT’s and he looked a bit confused and said, “yes I have seen GoT’s” he was asked are you coming back and he laughed and said, “Ned lost his head at the end of season one, not likely” and then was asked about coming back in season 6 and if you watch this honestly you can see that he is actually confused and a bit put off for not really knowing what was being asked. And he walks away. I do NOT think that he is playing younger Ned at this fight at ToJ. And no, I don’t think he was faking it. He has been filming other projects, has not been cited by anyone at all in Spain or elsewhere since the filming began and it appears they are going to get this fight in the can today and tomorrow. No, no Sean Bean. But the photo of the person playing the younger Sean Bean in these scenes looks very realistic and I am happy enough with that.

      *I was paraphrasing the above short interview on the carpet from last week*

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    57. Osentalka:
      I see 7 possible combatants in those shots, 4 guys in leathers and cloth, all up and fighting, 1 guy in plate fighting, 1 in plate down obviously dead or wounded lying in shot and a 3rd plated guy standing presumably out of shot watching the proceedings.

      I think it’s the later stages of the fight and there have already been some casualties.

      It sounds like you’re seeing it the exact same way I am…except my eyes started getting blurry trying to figure out what was on the ground, which is why I said I couldn’t tell if it was a human or a horse.

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    58. mau: But I’m sure they won’t change those lines, because book nerds would crucify them.

      Ha, like that’s stopped them before! Look, I’ve said before that I’ve read the books a few years ago, and very occasionally the inner book-wanker in me comes out (I really preferred “Edd fetch me a block”, for example), but those lines need to go.

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    59. Tywin of the Hill,

      I’m glad. Not that I didn’t love Bean’s portrayal, but the only way that would have been credible is if the show had spent a ton of money on Ant-Man-level CGI, and I think the show has enough big-ticket items in the budget without doing that.

      I’d be far from opposed to seeing Bean again in a vision or somesuch, but a more contemporary one.

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    60. Kay,

      I like how they insult Dorne as being to ”sexualized” Yet on the first chapter in the books we see their princess sleeping with a KG.
      And there is not 1, and I chelange people here, chapter in Dorne, where either Arrianne doesn’t think of someone she once slept in the past, or Hotah thinking what sl*ts the SS are.

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    61. JCDavis:
      1.I counted carefully one the one photo that seemed to show the most clarity and the most people and I see four fighting, one on the ground and two very close by in armor.That is 7 people – unless the two standing there so close watching are stunt guys……but totally a total of 7 with no Lyana.

      2.I am sorry to say this and it was already posted, but there is a short interview with Sean Bean at a premier and the person asked if he was in a scene of GoT’s and he looked a bit confused and said, “yes I have seen GoT’s”he was asked are you coming back and he laughed and said, “Ned lost his head at the end of season one, not likely” and then was asked about coming back in season 6 and if you watch this honestly you can see that he is actually confused and a bit put off for not really knowing what was being asked.And he walks away.I do NOT think that he is playing younger Ned at this fight at ToJ.And no, I don’t think he was faking it.He has been filming other projects, has not been cited by anyone at all in Spain or elsewhere since the filming began and it appears they are going to get this fight in the can today and tomorrow.No, no Sean Bean.But the photo of the person playing the younger Sean Bean in these scenes looks very realistic and I am happy enough with that.

      *I was paraphrasing the above short interview on the carpet from last week*

      I will be bugging rioting if that is NOT Sean Bean.

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    62. I make out 4 guys in northern leathers (Ned and his companions), 1 guy in plate armour fighting, 1 in plate down on the ground (dead) and 1 in plate just standing there, likely off frame.

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    63. mau,

      Javi is Spanish version of Sue and what it did it was just ask to remove a copy of his video since it was the first time he uploaded on youtube and he didn’t know about the tool. As soon as I told him about it he stabilized his video 🙂

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    64. El-bobby:
      Are we sure that’s Lyanna? You wouldn’t expect someone who has just given birth and is supposed to be dying, to be outside during all of this. So she shouldn’t be filming any outside scenes, right?

      Exactly, which makes me wonder if it might be Wylla instead.

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    65. Where’s the photographers with long-focus lenses when you need them!

      I’m guessing there’s two actors involved in that scene and the rest being stunt performers.

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    66. Kay,

      There’s a difference between “thought” words and “spoken” words. If Cersei or Sam had said “Myrish swamp” or “fat pink mast” out loud, of course it would have sounded horrible.
      For example, Cersei described Robert Strong’s armor as “plate steel, enameled white and bright as a maiden’s hopes”. In the book it sounds good because those are her thoughts, but if she had said that out loud, of course it would have sounded corny.

      P.S.: I’m a book reader and I didn’t hate the “Break the Wheel” thing. Mostly I felt indifference (perhaps because I had already heard it in the trailer).

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    67. mau: But I’m sure they won’t change those lines, because book nerds would crucify them.

      And if they don’t will show nerds like you who find the line cheesy crucify them?

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    68. iridium,

      As I’ve been doing my re-read, I’ve been noticing where they’ve taken certain lines which work in print, but not necessarily as dialogue, and reworked them. Sometimes it’s just been a matter of switching the order of certain sentences around, sometimes it been a matter of just rewriting something to say the same thing, but in a way someone would actually speak it. I’ve also noticed how they’ve mined lines, or ideas, or whatever from one book or character and used it for another. It’s reminded me of how much, despite what some people may think, D&D love the books, the story, and the world Martin created.

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    69. Osentalka,

      Hmm I think you may be right. The guy already laying on the ground is definitely wearing similar armor to Dayne after looking at some other shots, and I just noticed the guy in plate on the right.

      We may well get seven against three after all. :O

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    70. doug,

      There is no ”show nerd”, at least not Mau. As he is a book reader. A ”show nerd” would be someone who only watches the show.

      I explained this plenty of times. This entire Show vs. Books thing is non-existant.
      It is just a continuation of the 2006-2012 AFFC/ADWD are good vs. AFFC/ADWD are bad.

      Thats it, this is a ”fight” among book-readers, there is no show watcher only here who argues that AFFC/ADWD where good/bad, that would be ridicolous.
      While things setled down for awhile in the fandom, S5 simply brought back all the arguments/debates from 2005.
      Those who didn’t like AFFC/ADWD liked S5.
      Those who liked AFFC/ADWD hated S5.

      So this is just a continuation of the same old debates.

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    71. Mihnea,

      I’m not to whom you’re referring saying Dorne is too sexualized, but I’ve certainly seen that complaint all over the place. I keep thinking they must not have read the same books I did. As I mentioned, I’m doing a reread, and I’m close to halfway through AFFC. Arianne was already my least favorite character in Dorne, and during this reread I’ve liked her even less, and am even more astounded people view her as a ‘feminist” character. If they want to complain about something being too sexualized, I suggest they go back and read the Dorne chapters, specifically paying attention to Arianne.

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    72. mau:
      Mihnea,

      Well, maybe cheesy isa strong word, but it is no better than “I’m gonna break the wheel”.

      It is inetersting that book purist hated “break the wheel”, but think that “No, now it end” are sacred words.

      Wahhhh… I have an opinion! Waaaah!

      The line is perfect.

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    73. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Seriously Dorne is a joke in both mediums. at least the show doesn’t bother to pretend Dorne is some huge player/story.

      But you are right, I just remenbered that among the SS, both Arrianne and Hotah, think of her as the bigest sl*t. So they where right ther aswell.

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    74. RFT,

      Really? to me it looks like a white dress. Of course my eyesight on mobile is crap but I still think that’s a dress. (first pic left side, I assume) I wasn’t expecting a woman outside the tower though so your explanation may make more sense to me.

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    75. These pictures and the video looks to me like a test for te real scene. We don t even see the kings guard whit theyr armor.

      The javy guy from L7R, said sean bean was not there. But to me this looks like a test so the guy with ned´s cloths could be a stuntman. And Isaac was not there too, what makes my idia of a test more racional.

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    76. Mihnea,

      The Queenmaker subplot was a huge waste of time and had its own infamously cheesy line (“Men call me Darkstar, and I am of the night” *groan*), and certainly didn’t do anything to establish Arianne as some strong female character. She came off as a spoiled brat in all of her chapters to me.

      Show Dorne is bad, but considering the source material they had to work with I guess it’s not unexpected.

      Sergio,

      I don’t think we’ll be getting the Kingsguard armor. The climate in the area they’re filming is not well suited (no pun intended) to heavy plate armor and cloaks. I’d also think three people in Kingsguard armor might be a bit too conspicuous if they’re trying to keep Lyanna’s location a secret of some kind.

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    77. D & D, please for the love of r’hllor, don’t screw this scene up!!!!!!! I beg of thee, don’t tinker too much or alter the dialogue, it’s perfect as it is.

      “Our Knees don’t bend easily”

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    78. Robb Snow,

      In the context in which “I am of the night is said,” as a counterpoint to The word of the Morning, the line isn’t as cheesy as it is in isolation. I just read that Sunday night. As for Arianne, yes, she comes off as a spoiled brat in my opinion, as well, but let’s not forget as she’s coming off that way, she’s either naked, about to get naked, trying to get someone else naked, or thinking about getting naked, or someone else being naked. But the show over-sexualized Dorne in season 5…hahaha.

      For the record, I kind of liked Dorne in the books…ok, well, the non-Arianne parts of Dorne.

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    79. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      iridium,

      As I’ve been doing my re-read, I’ve been noticing where they’ve taken certain lines which work in print, but not necessarily as dialogue, and reworked them.Sometimes it’s just been a matter of switching the order of certain sentences around, sometimes it been a matter of just rewriting something to say the same thing, but in a way someone would actually speak it.I’ve also noticed how they’ve mined lines, or ideas, or whatever from one book or character and used it for another.It’s reminded me of how much, despite what some people may think, D&D love the books, the story, and the world Martin created.

      Absolutely. Their reverence and affection for the material is clear, much like Peter Jackson’s love for Tolkien’s work. I can also say from my own experience that it’s possible to be lovingly obsessed with something like ASOIAF and still dislike certain sections of it; I don’t love every single line/paragraph/chapter of the series. I agree with your second post about Arianne, for example. I hated her character, and as a fan of the other strong women in the series I found her severely lacking in depth. I was glad they cut her (and also YG, for different reasons!). So yeah, it’s my favourite fantasy book series, and I find myself returning to it again and again, but there are some parts I’m very happy have been changed for the show.

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    80. Redstar,

      LOL Give me a break will ya! I just opened the site on my computer. And it does look like a white thingy rather than a dress because as you said it is flat. Not sure what’s the purpose. Lighting?

      Still can’t figure out how you guys can see Young Ned’s face. I can’t even figure out which of them Young Ned is! I do see the knight in the middle who’s probably Dayne.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Jesús (Los Siete Reinos),

      SEVEN BLESSINGS ON YOU!!!! I can finally make out the thing. That looks pretty cool!

      EDIT: So it looks like 5 guys: 4 on 1 rather than 3 on 2. Neat movements in the fight and looks like Ser Dayne has his hands full. They might add some corpses around when all is done, it might give the scene some scale.

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    82. Al Swearengen:
      D & D, please for the love of r’hllor, don’t screw this scene up!!!!!!! I beg of thee, don’t tinker too much or alter the dialogue, it’s perfect as it is.

      “Our Knees don’t bend easily”

      You know that entire piece of dialogue is from a fever dream Ned has, while high on milk of poppy? And is not how it actually went down. But it’s cool dialogue nonetheless.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Sergio:
      These pictures and the video looks to me like a test for te real scene. We don t even see the kings guard whit theyr armor.

      The javy guy from L7R, said sean bean was not there. But to me this looks like a test so the guy with ned´s cloths could be a stuntman. And Isaac was not there too, what makes my idia of a test more racional.

      You might be on to something there!

        Quote  Reply

    84. Lisa0527: You know that entire piece of dialogue is from a fever dream Ned has, while high on milk of poppy?

      “He dreamt an old dream, of three knights in white cloaks, and a tower long fallen, and Lyanna in her bed of blood.”

      “They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life.”

      Ned’s had the dream before. It’s not a fever dream brought on by milk of the poppy.

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    85. Lisa0527,

      Eh, even if it is I don’t see why they wouldn’t adapt Ned’s dream for verbatim, it’s ripe for the screen. If they dare inject some fan fiction malarkey into that scene I’ll be so disappointed.

      I can’t get Victarion Greyjoy or Arianne Martell so at least allow me the pleasure of seeing a live action ToJ, it’s not too much to ask for 🙁

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    86. Awesome post!

      It doesn’t seem like the actual scene is being filmed to me, more like like a run through to set choreo and camera angles and lighting etc…
      Awesome to have footage nonetheless!

      The initial post seemed so odd to me thinking that Lyanna would be outside as they fought. I always expected her to be inside I guess. The update makes more sense to me although who knows how they will film the final scene.

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    87. Kinda hard to make out what’s going on (are they otehr KG or Ned’s men on the floor/ at the side). Ideally all of the KG would be there but 4 vs 1 would certainly gives Dayne the instant respect from the viewers that his character commands (although does make the Northerners look a bit cowardly or at best like a pack of wolves!). Perhaps if they ever do a prequel we might see what happened to the other KG and the other 3 of Ned’s crew.

      Also, for those who want it, it might be time to start letting go of Ned being in this season.

      https://winteriscoming.net/2015/09/28/sean-bean-insists-hes-not-in-game-of-thrones-season-6/

      Apologies for citing that other place!

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    88. This scene looks like it’s shaping up to be amazing. I love the way the setting looks – I’m actually glad that it’s being shot during the day because I want to see every detail of that backdrop on screen when the show airs. Even based from a few seconds of video and some anecdotal evidence, the choreography looks fast and intricate. I don’t care whether it’s 7 against 3, or 5 against 1. I just want it to be a powerful sequence, and it appears that it will be.

      It’s a shame they’re only going to be filming at Castillo de Zafra for a few days. There won’t be many more opportunities for photos (and, more optimistically, to find out which actors are playing Ned and Arthur Dayne). Still, this is far more than I thought we would get. I thought the area would be completely sealed off beyond the range of any cameras. I’m glad to see that it wasn’t!

      As for Lyanna potentially being there, it looks like that claim has been retracted, or at least presented with less certainty. I stared at that photo for several minutes trying to find the person matching the given description, without success. I didn’t even consider the possibility that the crew member holding the reflector might be the subject of that speculation. (For what it’s worth, there does appear to be a woman wearing white present in the photo in question, but she’s seated near the bottom right corner of the enlarged copy and is probably a member of the production crew).

      It’s just as well. As Sunfyre mentioned, the only reason the actress playing Lyanna would be needed for filming outside the tower would be if they shot a scene in which Ned carries his sister’s body from the tower. That would certainly be a great image, but it’s probably unnecessary.

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    89. I see 4v1 fighting.
      1 guy standing around in shiny armour that matches the lone fighter.
      1 something (horse, body?) on the ground dead/not moving.

      At first I thought the guy standing around was a stunt double, but his hair is different than the lone fighter, and in my opinion looks a lot bigger, and why the heck is he standing that close to the scene unless they are just rehersing?

      Is it possible that say someone warged into him and he is frozen?
      Maybe the dead guy is the 3rd KG, and the other 3 northerners died at a different location?

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    90. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Even if this fight scene is 4 vs 1 (which is not a certainty to me), that does not mean there will not be a 7 vs 3 encounter as well. Fight scenes can be so complex to film and edit with all the various closeups and whatnot….

      The fight could be split into 2 or 3 separate fight scenes with the scene being set up today taking place after 2 of the KG were killed. Maybe they decided to isolate each KG and this scene is Team Ned vs Dayne while the other 2 KG are fighting more men off to the side somewhere.

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    91. Now that things have been cleared up about Lyanna, it may be that the initial info about her and another woman being on location in Spain turns out false. Would make the most sense if the actress/es only shot indoors in Belfast.

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    92. I think they intend to make the Targaryen KG armor different than Baratheon. Surely, it will be established that they are KG. I wonder if they will keep Dawn as pale as milk?

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    93. Darquemode,

      I can totally see this happening. It’s not that it would be bad to have a 4 on 1. It’s the idea that one single person to defend a tower of that size is a bit odd to me even if it is Ser Arthur Dayne. Maybe I have a weird idea.

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    94. “How to destroy the most epic news article of all time on Watchers on the Wall” by snotty commenters.

      Come on, people, for real, one does not exist without the other. Stop pissing across the aisle and fanning the flames of “show vs book”. Trash talking just sinks you to the same level as some of the very same people you love to hate. I read through the comments on big posts because people post add on information or good analysis sometimes, but if we’re going to stick our pinkies out and scoff at this group or that, I’m going to go back to my rule of “just read the article”.

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    95. iridium: Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      iridium,

      As I’ve been doing my re-read, I’ve been noticing where they’ve taken certain lines which work in print, but not necessarily as dialogue, and reworked them.Sometimes it’s just been a matter of switching the order of certain sentences around, sometimes it been a matter of just rewriting something to say the same thing, but in a way someone would actually speak it.I’ve also noticed how they’ve mined lines, or ideas, or whatever from one book or character and used it for another.It’s reminded me of how much, despite what some people may think, D&D love the books, the story, and the world Martin created.

      Absolutely. Their reverence and affection for the material is clear, much like Peter Jackson’s love for Tolkien’s work. I can also say from my own experience that it’s possible to be lovingly obsessed with something like ASOIAF and still dislike certain sections of it; I don’t love every single line/paragraph/chapter of the series.

      I absolutely agree. I’ve read Tolkien’s work and thought the adaptation of LOTR was incredible given all that needed to be chosen and organized but when it comes to The Hobbit, there were definitely things I didn’t like.
      I can’t make many comparisons between GRRM’s novels and the tv series because I’m only on ACOK right now. Being a series watcher first and the book reader second I guess I have it easier than those of you who began with the books. I look at the books as an extension of the series and always try to keep in mind that as with everything that has been derived from books, this is an adaptation and not a direct translation.
      I too believe from the many interviews/cons and the Oxford Union Address (which was really interesting) ect that D&D are doing this out of love for the books and like PJ, want to give a visual representation. They’ve all broken records, movie/show making boundaries and most importantly introduced people to the books that perhaps hadn’t thought of reading them before 🙂

      And thoughts on Sean Bean….I love him, seriously love him. But I think it would have been a big mistake to cast him as a much younger version of Ned. He was great as Ned because he looked the age and body type that D&D were portraying him as. CGI-ing him and prosthetic or what have you would be strange and then there is his girth as well. I’m sure they ,as always, found someone who shared the common characteristics that Sean had for his younger version.

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    96. Tyrion Pimpslap: I think they intend to make the Targaryen KG armor different than Baratheon.

      That makes sense!
      The Barhteon/ Lannister KG wears gold to reflect the yellow of House Baratheon and the gold of House Lannister, but the Targ KG wore black to reflect the black background of the Targaryen sigil…

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    97. Exit81,

      I think if you look at the context of the quote you’ll see that it most likely was. Here’s the quote from GRRM concerning this.

      “I might mention, though, that Ned’s account, which you refer to, was in the context of a dream… and a fever dream at that. Our dreams are not always literal.”

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    98. Lisa0527,

      I’ve looked at the context when I pulled the quotes. Ned still says it’s an old dream, so it’s one he’s had before. Unless we’re supposed to assume that Ned is a milk of the poppy addict, the dream is not just because of the drug.

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    99. I wonder if this scene is not really a flashback for the audience, but Bran watching the whole situation with his strengthened supernatural sight.

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    100. I’m with the people who are seeing:
      – 4 Northern fighters wearing leather.
      – 1. Silverplated fighter fighting.
      – 1. Silverplated fighter on the ground.
      – 1. Silverplated fighter just standing there.

      This to me, confirms at least a 4 vs. 2. The 3rd Silverplated fighter might be a stunt-double (or the actual actor and we’re seeing the stuntdouble do his “best in Europe”-fighting), but he may be Hightower or Whent who is just momentarily out of the shot.

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    101. Sorry haven’t read the books, and I just started watching all of the GOT seasons last month, but how did they know that Lyanna was in Tower of Joy?

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    102. Pigeon,

      Lol, if ur a girl then u are my soul mate!
      I looove spoilers! It doesnt take away anything from the experience for me to know what happens ahead of time! It adds to it!!

      I usually watch movies from halfway to the end then if its a good movie i go back and watch the first half!

      Think about it! Its a win win situation, if its a crappy movie you save urself half the pain, if its a good movie the first half becomes like a prequel so ur watching 2 good movies!!

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    103. Lisa0527,

      I responded before you edited your post to include the quote from GRRM, and by the time I noticed it, it was too late to edit my response.

      And I still think there’s no reason the show can’t include as much or as little of the dialogue as they want. Since this isn’t Ned’s dream on the show, fever or not.

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    104. Yesss! Kudos to LSR, the body language and movements point to the traits of Sean Bean, and no sightings of SB since Friday morning in London, all the “Martian” interviews were recorded on the 24th, and they have been released (purposely?) over the last few days. This appears to be a rehearsal, since those two crew members are in direct line of the camera.

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    105. El-bobby: You wouldn’t expect someone who has just given birth and is supposed to be dying, to be outside during all of this.

      Well, someone close to dying: the birth part is still conjecture! 😉 (Ah, this fandom just isn’t as much fun without the Dayneites….)

      popee: but how did they know that Lyanna was in Tower of Joy?

      I do not know that we every are told exactly how Ned knew that.

      Al Swearengen: I beg of thee, don’t tinker too much or alter the dialogue, it’s perfect as it is.

      It’s perfect for a nightmarish dream sequence designed to project guilt and misery (particularly given Ned’s character), but it would be horrible for real dialogue. Given that it looks like Bran is going to be seeing what happened, they really need different dialog that sounds like things real people would say.

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    106. popee:
      Sorry haven’t read the books, and I just started watching all of the GOT seasons last month, but how did they know that Lyanna was in Tower of Joy?

      The books tell us.

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    107. Darquemode,

      I’m not sure it’s worth investing the time into that much of a fight sequence seeing as the average viewer has no idea who nearly everyone involved is. If it was me I wouldn’t have included it at all but if they are going to then I’d just focus on the end of the fight where Dayne is the last man standing. They need to make him look suitably epic or the KG of past doesn’t contrast with the goon squad it has become as well.
      If it had got down to 4 vs 2 then I think it lessend the rep of the KG a bit. 4 vs 1 is a good number for me. Sutiably overwhelming odds for Dayne to surpass expectations against but still narrowly lose.

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    108. popee: Lol, I read the wikia sites, doesnt to say how they knew, only that Ned was looking for th Kingsguard on the Trident and stuff.

      Sorry, misread your post. I’d reckon that they at least may have heard from captives from the Battle of the Ruby-ford where the KG may have gotten to? That would make sense right?

      Redstar:
      To everyone who suggested it’s not an actual scene but rehearsal, it seems you’re right.

      Seems like an aweful lot of people there if it were just a rehearsal. It still doesn’t explain why Isaac isn’t there if he’s to be in the scene – as he would still need to be present during a rehearsal if he’s to have any place within the scene.

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    109. doug: And if they don’t will show nerds like you who find the line cheesy crucify them?

      I know, right? I don’t understand why there’s this war against people who like the books. It’s possible to love both the books and the show. I’m one of those people. If it weren’t for GoT I never would have read ASOIAF. I love the show and the books. Let’s all respect one another. We can coexist.

      Thank you to WOTW for posting all of this awesome news!!!

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    110. Wimsey,

      It’s Westeros, not modern day Earth. The lines spoken by Ned and the Kingsguard are coherent and beautifully poetic.

      And as far as I know real people don’t go around saying ” you want that bad pussy” so it’s not like D & D have their finger on the pulse anyway.

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    111. Andrew Thomas:
      I can 100% percent gaurentee that it is Sean Bean!!! Hold me to this!! Whoop

      Hope so

      Don’t just want a Young Ned, want Sean Bean as Ned, they can edit it younger effects

      Seen enough of Sharpe to know that Bean knows how to sword fight etc

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    112. It’s clear in the bottom pic that the man fighting in the middle is wearing similar armor and gear to the man standing at the back of the shot, (likely just outside the camera frame). Which means at least 2 King’s Guard, (because their hair color doesn’t look similar enough for a stunt double). Makes me think the dead/wounded man on the ground is the third. Which means we’re probably going to get all of the participants from the book. Remember this is just a set piece, likely the finale of the fight. Other parts of it could have been shot with more people participating and as they died, and they were no longer required for the shot, they were removed. Multiple scenes, shots and angles could easily include everything.

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    113. I’m sorry but “And now it begins.” “No. Now it ends.” is NOT cheesy. It’s the end of not only the War of the Usurper, but the conclusion (sort of) to why the war was started in the first place. Some of you are the biggest snobs. Or you’re not hearing the dialogue right in your mind.

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    114. Also, come on, no way Lyanna Stark in the condition Ned finds her in has “walking around outside” scenes. Her scenes were probably done long ago on a sound stage, or have yet to come.

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    115. Has anyone spotted the director in these pics? There’s a guy with longish hair I thought might be Jack Bender but it’s hard to tell for sure.

      I remember reading speculation that the TOJ flashback would take place mid-season. Is that what other people are thinking?

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    116. Ser Oromis Locke,

      It’s right before they shoot the scene, so there would be many people around. Two crew members seem to be standing too close to the actors dueling for it to be a scene. They’re right in front of the camera’s line of sight. Bran won’t appear in every shot, and what they seem to be checking here is choreography/sound, he’s not needed.

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    117. Matt:
      I’m sorry but “And now it begins.” “No. Now it ends.” is NOT cheesy. Some of you are the biggest snobs.

      Can’t deny that I can be snobbish about some things (smoking, shitty tattoos, poor grammar) so I’ll accept that insult. I thought the language worked in the books but would be too stilted for the show. If my opinion on that makes me a snob, just add it to the list! I’ve made peace with it.

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    118. It’s perfect for a nightmarish dream sequence designed to project guilt and misery (particularly given Ned’s character), but it would be horrible for real dialogue.Given that it looks like Bran is going to be seeing what happened, they really need different dialog that sounds like things real people would say.

      Since that is probably my favorite dialogue in the books I think I’d be ecstatic as a schoolboy if they included it, whether it’s something real people would say or not.

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    119. Most of the lines can be left out, but I hope they keep at least Arthur’s lines since he and Ned seem to be the focus of the conflict.

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    120. Before this news, I was being sceptical about the inclusion of all three KGs. Now, my fears have been mitigated. With the 14 horses also in mind (7 actors with two horses each, one being a spare), I think they’ll try to keep it as close to canon as possible. Unless Ned’s memories in a dream were distorted and imprecise, in which case we don’t know what’s canon.

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    121. Just thinkin’…..if BR was observing the proceedings at the ToJ during this moment in history, he could be giving this memory as a gift to Bran…or enabling him to observe it. I think it would be a great moment between Max von Sydow (BR) and Bran. Or this is a well-trained Bran giving this gift to Jon 2.0.

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    122. Even if Sean Bean is not playing younger Ned, to hand the visuals to Bran and take them away from Ned seems like a slap in Ned’s face. There are many narrative devices that would let Ned (in a flashback to his fever bed in KL, for instance, or to a confession at the heart tree) narrate, dream, or somehow be connected with the ToJ incident, which was both the crowning glory and downfall of his happiness and life. I usually dislike it when D&D and the writers take some wonderful event from a book character and hand it to someone else on screen. Usually, these shifts IMO are also a violation of backstory and character development of the original individual. I don’t think it’s fair to Ned, nor to Sean Bean, who so meticulously and movingly portrayed the nuanced moral results of this life-defining fight. Nor to the TV or book-reading audience. Bran is an interloper at the ToJ–the sequence really should be bookended by mature Ned’s POV.

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    123. Ser Oromis Locke: Sorry, misread your post. I’d reckon that they at least may have heard from captives from the Battle of the Ruby-ford where the KG may have gotten to? That would make sense right?

      Seems like an aweful lot of people there if it were just a rehearsal. It still doesn’t explain why Isaac isn’t there if he’s to be in the scene – as he would still need to be present during a rehearsal if he’s to have any place within the scene.

      Yeah you’re right, make sense, guess it could be KG Lewyn Martell or Barristan Selmy. They could have sympathized with Ned. Is there anything about Robert knowing they were at ToJ?

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    124. Dude- they’re right outside the tower… What more do you want? They can’t exactly fight on rocks surrounding it and interiors will be way too cramped to film a fight scene including crew.

      Some people are never happy.

      Aguero:
      Wait. What?? The all scene of the batlle will be in the same place? No battle in other parts of outside the tower? No battle inside the tower?

      I hope the battle take other places. Like the soldiers walking during the scene..batlle some place near to the tower, then go to tje tower e finish there.

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    125. Matt,

      That is a mighty fine line indeed. I think it’s the “We looked for you at the Trident….” sequence that might come across as a bit stilted and unnatural. But it was all in a fever dream, under the influence of milk of the poppy (opioids) so that leaves room for D&D to make the dialogue whatever they want. Hopefully they’ll do it justice.

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    126. Stark Raven’ Rad: to hand the visuals to Bran and take them away from Ned seems like a slap in Ned’s face. There are many narrative devices that would let Ned (in a flashback to his fever bed in KL, for instance, or to a confession at the heart tree) narrate, dream, or somehow be connected with the ToJ incident, which was both the crowning glory and downfall of his happiness and life.

      I think that’s taking it a bit far though. Ned is a character in a story, he doesn’t exist outside of the story and obviously you know he can’t feel the supposed injustice done to him that you talk about. I believe that you feel that they rob Ned of his dream and give it to Bran which is a legitimate feeling if you feel strongly about the character but “a slap in the characters face” is just too dramatic.

      Stark Raven’ Rad I don’t think it’s fair to Ned, nor to Sean Bean, who so meticulously and movingly portrayed the nuanced moral results of this life-defining fight. Nor to the TV or book-reading audience. Bran is an interloper at the ToJ–the sequence really should be bookended by mature Ned’s POV.

      I loved his dream myself. I still think that it is some of the best writing in the whole story. But TV producers probably look at Ned as a done deal (which it is, really). I think they conceptually tried to connect it to Bran since the beginning. It gives him an insight to his family’s tragedy. It may not have the impact for you or me as Ned’s dream, though honestly I think it might be an epic scene that stands on its own at the end of the day. But as far as the TV audience goes, they won’t even know they missed it.

      And it would only show an insight to a dead character that won’t matter in the “Jon Snow parentage” scheme of things.

      There’s also the idea of who’ll tell Jon about all this. Bran as an existing character just saved the day for the show. Books have it harder… Will there really be a Howland Reed? Who will let Jon Snow know?!

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    127. Stark Raven’ Rad:
      Even if Sean Bean is not playing younger Ned, to hand the visuals to Bran and take them away from Ned seems like a slap in Ned’s face.There are many narrative devices that would let Ned (in a flashback to his fever bed in KL, for instance, or to a confession at the heart tree) narrate, dream, or somehow be connected with the ToJ incident, which was both the crowning glory and downfall of his happiness and life.I usually dislike it when D&D and the writers take some wonderfulevent from a book character and hand it to someone else on screen. Usually, these shifts IMO are also a violation of backstory and character development of the original individual.I don’t think it’s fair to Ned, nor to Sean Bean, who so meticulously and movingly portrayed the nuanced moral results of this life-defining fight.Nor to the TV or book-reading audience.Bran is an interloper at the ToJ–the sequence really should be bookended by mature Ned’s POV.

      The fight was not in Ned’s dream. This vision will likely be Bran’s in the books as well.

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    128. iridium: Can’t deny that I can be snobbish about some things (smoking, shitty tattoos, poor grammar) so I’ll accept that insult.

      kudos. Most attempts at “epic” dialog sound like silly parodies that you’d expect to hear on Monty Python and the Holy Grail! And this line really is one of them. I never have thought that those were the lines actually spoken: I assumed that was just the lines that Ned dreamed in his guilt and post-war shellshock. They are much more acceptable as guilt-ridden distortions of memories than they would be as real dialogue. (GRRM’s dialog rarely has stooped so low: it would have been very out-of-place if we had gotten the scene “live.”)

      By the way, I love your icon (one of my favorite albums from my youth!), and your name. Do you, by chance, like to cause mass extinctions, or at least turn up in their aftermath? 😀

      Al Swearengen: It’s Westeros, not modern day Earth. The lines spoken by Ned and the Kingsguard are coherent and beautifully poetic.

      No, they really are not. They are OK for a dream, but if you tried to do it straight, then it would be classic “faux epic.” It’s the sort of lines that they’d do in a modern parody for the “witty banter” part before the hero and villian face off, where they keep one-upping each other with cliche lines until one of them mixed a cliche or ran out of ideas: “But all endings are a beginning” “Beginning and end are a circle: and the circle of your doom.” “Doom is but Destiny as seen by the weak” “Weak destiny is… um… strong doom is… oh f’ it, I’m going to cut your balls off and stuff them down your throat.”

      And as for “bad pussy,” you can find that line and ones very similar to it in more than one rock or rap tune of the last decade. It was crass, to be certain: but why wouldn’t that character be crass?

        Quote  Reply

    129. J Lee: The fight was not in Ned’s dream. This vision will likely be Bran’s in the books as well.

      If Bran sees it, then I am betting that what he sees is a bit different from what Ned dreams, too. And, of course, unlike us: B&W will know a lot more of the details.

        Quote  Reply

    130. Wimsey,

      I agree! There is so much to the ToJ story that we fans have imagined. Some of them are quite obvious, some may be less so, but the books need a way to tie the loose ends up and Bran seems the obvious choice.

        Quote  Reply

    131. I agree with TormundsWoman. The TOJ flashback is not just D&D giving into fan wish fulfillment but is the first step to Jon learning his true parentage. For him to learn this, someone has to tell him. For someone to tell him, they have to get the information somehow. TV wise, Bran learning this is best. Jon will be much more likely to believe his ” little brother ” then he would some strange little man from the swamps that he (or the viewers) have never seen before.

        Quote  Reply

    132. I’m with Al on this one. It’s a fictional world. There are multiple created languages* and people go on about dialogue being unnatural or “not how they’d really talk”?

      That’s just wacky. It’s fine to dislike dialogue. It’s fine to call it cheesy, or too formal, or “faux epic.” But why the assumption that there are no cheesy Westerosi? Wouldn’t you expect legendary knights to be a little formal as their last words are about upholding their sacred oath? If the lines are delivered well, it won’t be faux epic, it’ll just be epic.

      That said, I do think they will change the dialogue up to be more explicit about why they’re all there. After all, part of the reason the story is told through a fever dream is to keep it vague, whereas this flashback is going to be a reveal.

      *(Incidentally, DJP’s book on conlanging came out today!)

        Quote  Reply

    133. The “now it begins/now it ends” bit rings perfectly true for me, for a dream sequence. It’s not supposed to sound like naturalistic dialogue, but more like a hallucination. In fact, on the screen in my head I tend to hear it slurred, in slo-mo.

      If Ned does say “now it ends” on the show, it must have a very mournful, regretful quality in order to work. He really does not want to kill these guys, whom he respects, but feels that he has to.

        Quote  Reply

    134. Firannion,

      That’s how it is described in the books. It’s not meant to be some badass line. It’s Ned, exhausted, knowing he, or men he respected(especially Dayne) are about to die. I don’t get the idea that the dialogue in Ned’s dream is separate from what actually was said. Some may think it is cheesy, and the final exchange between Ned and Dayne may be, but I will be disappointed if we don’t get some of the it on the show. I think it is important that it is brought up that the KG are with Lyanna and Jon instead of a pregnant Queen Rhaella and Prince Viserys.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Fanboys are reeeeally reaching in this one, you can’t tell who’s drinking or who’s paying (a saying in my country) from that shaky ass vid. Looks like amazing choreography, but we likely will not get any quality footage until the episode airs.
      From the still photo, it does look like Sean Bean’s Ned, but why in the world would they use him when he’s supposed to look 20+ years younger there. It’s not preposterous to assume that if they’re casting a younger Ned that they’re going to go for an actor with striking physical resemblance with the wig and armor on

        Quote  Reply

    136. Did everyone else kind of have a vision of how the TOJ fight would happen. I pictured Ned and his companions arriving at the TOJ on exactly the day that Lyanna was going to die. I pictured the fight being indoors, maybe at the door, or just outside Lyannas room. I pictured her bedridden, on the very brink of death, in a pool of blood after having given birth. I saw Ned killing Arthur Dayne, bursting through the door, and discovering Lyanna. But the battle is outside. Not at the door, on the stairs, or outside Lyannas room. So my thinking has changed. I think Lyanna was there, at the fight. I think she attempted to stop the fight. That’s why Ned can hear her screaming “Eddard”. Which he wouldn’t if she was on the very brink of death in a room in a thick walled stone tower. I think she was mortally wounded when she tried to intervene, or possibly when she attempted to protect Ned or Howland. She was then carried inside, where she died in a pool of blood. There are all sorts of interesting implications for the time line of Jons birth if the birth didn’t happen that day.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Kilgore Tully:
      I’m with Al on this one. It’s a fictional world. There are multiple created languages* and people go on about dialogue being unnatural or “not how they’d really talk”?

      That’s just wacky. It’s fine to dislike dialogue. It’s fine to call it cheesy, or too formal, or “faux epic.” But why the assumption that there are no cheesy Westerosi? Wouldn’t you expect legendary knights to be a little formal as their last words are about upholding their sacred oath? If the lines are delivered well, it won’t be faux epic, it’ll just be epic.

      That said, I do think they will change the dialogue up to be more explicit about why they’re all there. After all, part of the reason the story is told through a fever dream is to keep it vague, whereas this flashback is going to be a reveal.

      *(Incidentally, DJP’s book on conlanging came out today!)

      I agree with this. I think if you took a poll that dialogue would be way up there on the list of favorite dialogue of the entire book series. Of course tastes vary so if someone doesn’t like it or finds it cheesy they have every right to that opinion. I enjoyed it myself and felt it encapsulated the characters well – the dutiful (maybe to a fault) makeup of the Kingsguard. Their accompanying pride bordering on ego. Ned’s conflicting loyalties between his friend and new king on the one hand and his sister and nephew on the other (of course that probably came a slight bit later). His and Howland’s mutual support, etc.

      And to be honest, I’m not at all sure that Bran’s visions have/will have a crystal clear high definition quality to them without any hint of maybe being a bit stylistic. I know in SOI&F prophecies can be a bit symbolic (ie: mummer’s dragon, purple serpents in hair, etc. etc.). I’m thinking visions may have a tinge of that as well. Not all that different than a fever dream – conveying the essence of an event rather than a second by second recreation.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Kay,

      Not to be a contrarian, but I have seen this line of thinking, (Bad Pussy=Fat pink mast/Myrish swamp) and I think it’s a bit disingenuous.

      The reason Bad Pussy is the worst line D&D have written and that it does NOT compare to the constantly referenced GRRM lines is this: GRRM does not put those words in any of his characters mouths. They are descriptors only, not freaking dialogue that sounds completely out of place.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Firannion,

      That’s how it is described in the books. It’s not meant to be some badass line. It’s Ned, exhausted, knowing he, or men he respected(especially Dayne) are about to die.I don’t get the idea that the dialogue in Ned’s dream is separate from what actually was said.Some may think it is cheesy, and the final exchange between Ned and Dayne may be, but I will be disappointed if we don’t get some of the it on the show.I think it is important that it is brought up that the KG are with Lyanna and Jon instead of a pregnant Queen Rhaella and Prince Viserys.

      Exactly. People who are saying that they never thought that was what Ned actually said are making that up because people are now saying it’s cheesy. It would be cheesy if Ned said it in a serious, action hero-esque way, but he says it in a weary, defeated way. The main reason I am bummed Sean Bean won’t be there is because I know he would get that line reading just right.

      I am just imagining being a book reader, stumbling on WotW for the first time today seeing this post and just staring incredulously at these pics. 😛 I go back and forth b/w wanting to know these teasers and wanting to be surprised but these last few days has made this Northern-loyalist very happy!

        Quote  Reply

    140. House Adder:
      Gravemaster,

      My problem as well, where is Lyanna????????

      Wouldn’t Lyanna be seen only inside the Tower? That will likely only be shot on a sound stage, so unless she’s in other exterior scenes, likely they’ll have better luck keeping the actress secret.

        Quote  Reply

    141. While I would’ve loved a Sean Bean cameo, I have faith in whoever they cast to play young Ned… especially after Nell Williams’ fantastic portrayal of young Cersei. They clearly know what to look for when casting younger versions of older characters.

        Quote  Reply

    142. iridium: Absolutely. Their reverence and affection for the material is clear, much like Peter Jackson’s love for Tolkien’s work. I can also say from my own experience that it’s possible to be lovingly obsessed with something like ASOIAF and still dislike certain sections of it; I don’t love every single line/paragraph/chapter of the series.

      Hello. I agree completely with your assessment of being able to love something with your whole heart, and yet have reservations about certain aspects. I wish that same sentiment could be understood by the entire fandom, but especially those who prefer the show, in regards to book readers that have small show issues. It seems to be more of a, “You’re either with us or against us” type situation, and that is unfortunate.

      Your quote could also be tweaked slightly, “It’s possible to be lovingly obsessed with something, like ASOIAF (or LOTR), and still not adapt certain sections perfectly, or even how the author would have preferred.”

      I mean, I think we can assume that GRRM would prefer to hear his own dialogue, not versions of it, when he personally is watching the show. That doesn’t mean D&D ruined anything, just that each little decision to make something “better” for viewers is a tiny compromise that GRRM, or any author, doesn’t have to make.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Matty C: I think we can assume that GRRM would prefer to hear his own dialogue, not versions of it,

      As a veteran TV writer, GRRM understands more than anyone that what reads well in a book may sound stilted and corny on screen. Even in the episodes he wrote, he didn’t stick slavishly to the book material.

        Quote  Reply

    144. Lisa0527,

      Wow, cool, you know how the Tower of Joy plays out, even though no one else does! That must feel amazing, lording that info over all the rest of us.

      Seriously, could you come off more condescending?

        Quote  Reply

    145. Do we know if Lyanna was giving birth (assuming THAT theory is true, of course) at the same time the 7 v 3 fight happens, and Ned made it to her side during her final moments? Maybe at the time of the fight she was not giving birth (explaining why she may be outside ToJ) but then she goes into labor sometime later but before Ned and Howland are able to take her away with them.

        Quote  Reply

    146. If they’re expecting Isaac to be at this set, can we assume they’ll be doing “Dead Zone” style visions, where the character having the visions is actually in the scene, but off to the edges. It worked really well in that movie, so it’d be interesting to see them do that here.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Matty C,

      ???

      It’s just a theory I have. One of many possible theories. I was hoping to discuss it with people who know a lot about the show. My apologies if it came across as condescending. I think it was just excitement at a new idea.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Ravyn,

      I am well aware of GRRM’s knowledge and experience in TV, and all the bullshit compromises that it encompasses.

      That said, you can’t tell me that he actually ENJOYS hearing iconic lines tweaked by ONE FREAKING WORD, for no good reason. (“Your sister” is not “Only Cat”)

      I get changing a scenario, moving characters around, etc. I’m talking about when
      you’ve got an exact scene from the books, with lines that have become like movie quotes for some people, and then they get tweaked for reasons that are nebulous at best.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Lisa0527,

      I always pictured the fight happening outside the tower. But that doesn’t make your opinion wrong. The book scene was written in such a dreamlike impressionistic way. It allows the individual reader to fill in gaps and visualize details differently.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Wimsey: kudos.Most attempts at “epic” dialog sound like silly parodies that you’d expect to hear on Monty Python and the Holy Grail!And this line really is one of them.I never have thought that those were the lines actually spoken: I assumed that was just the lines that Ned dreamed in his guilt and post-war shellshock.They are much more acceptable as guilt-ridden distortions of memories than they would be as real dialogue.(GRRM’s dialog rarely has stooped so low: it would have been very out-of-place if we had gotten the scene “live.”)

      By the way, I love your icon (one of my favorite albums from my youth!), and your name.Do you, by chance, like to cause mass extinctions, or at least turn up in their aftermath?

      Well I for one would love to see Ned and Arthur discuss the relative carrying abilities of African v European swallows. I’m pretty sure Sean Bean could carry it off!

      I agree with you about the dialogue, of course, but I take the point of other posters that it’s very actor/director dependent. Perhaps I’ll be pleasantly surprised – I’d be very happy to stand corrected on the matter.

      As for my user name, nope, I can’t claim to have so much influence! I’ve been told when I’m in a bad mood I can leave a swath if devastation in my wake (I’m like a little black cloud that rains on everyone in the immediate vicinity), but that’s a relatively small scale and infrequent event 😉 . I work with iridium on occasion but mostly I really just think the name is pretty. And I *love* the Wall album. Hated the movie though – I think I was too young when I watched it and I found it super disturbing. Seriously, who lets a 6 year old watch something like that? #parentingfail.

        Quote  Reply

    151. Matty C,

      “Bad pussy” wasn’t a bad line because it was spoken aloud. It’s a bad line because it sucks. The same goes for “fat pink mast” and “myrish swamp.”

        Quote  Reply

    152. Sunfyre,

      No I agree with you now….I think the battle is outside. And the leaked video seems to confirm that. Unless they were just rehearsing outside. But it really overturned my preconceptions of how the TOJ would unfold. I think the battle being outside opens up a lot of new possibilities I hadn’t considered before. I had a pretty fixed image of how it would turn out. Which I now think was probably wrong.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Lisa0527: You know that entire piece of dialogue is from a fever dream Ned has, while high on milk of poppy? And is not how it actually went down. But it’s cool dialogue nonetheless.

      This is you, yeah? To Al Swearengen? It is known Ned had a fever dream, but “And is not how it actually went down” is a complete nonsense thing to say, since neither you nor anyone else knows how it did go down. Also, starting any response to anyone on the internet with the words “You know” is a pretty condescending tone to take. I think if you knew Al and what he posts, he’s not really the one to be lecturing on ASOIAF minutiae. That is all.

        Quote  Reply

    154. Young Dragon,

      I always thought “Fat pink mast” was pretty intentionally funny, and in the context of the character and situation, fairly evocative without being gross.

      “Myrish swamp” is gross.

      But also, do people want him to write “Sam’s hard cock” or some other such blunt language? “Cersei shoved her fingers into her wet pussy”? I mean, you have to say SOMETHING, and if you’ve ever read a cheesy romance novel, you know there are waaaaay worse things authors choose to call a man’s erect penis.

        Quote  Reply

    155. Matty C,

      SciFiFantasyGirl,

      Good points from both of you about this. I truly do hope that GRRM is largely happy with the adaptation, and that if Tolkein was alive, he’d be mates with PJ! Maybe he would have even gotten one of those LotR tattoos that PJ and the cast have 🙂 http://i.imgur.com/0pbU3YI.jpg

      I too wish there was less infighting in the fandom, but it’s not the trainwreck that some others have been. I wasn’t part of it so mi scusi if I’m getting this wrong, but apparently there was a massive schism in the Harry Potter fandom over whether Hermione should end up with Harry or Ron? Like, one that spilled over into real life, with fanfic writers being outed to friends and family etc. Unreal.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Lisa0527:,

      I had a pretty fixed image of how it would turn out.

      I think we all did. And still do to some extent. Judging by this thread alone there are so many different expectations. I don’t envy the showrunners when they adapt iconic book scenes like this. It’s going to be impossible to please everyone.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Matty C,

      I never said he “enjoyed” it. I said he likely “understands” it. Those are two different things. I’m sure there are instances where it’s painful. If there weren’t, he wouldn’t be a very good author.

        Quote  Reply

    158. Matty C,

      I will avoid using “you know”. Tone and an attempt at humour is sometimes hard to communicate online. I don’t think the tone of the post in total was condescending, nor was it meant to be. But if it offended, I apologize for that. GRRM has said that this bit of dialogue occurs in a fever dream, and isn’t meant to be a literal retelling of how the events occurred. That’s all I meant.

        Quote  Reply

    159. Bran is bae,

      The guy has another one up too. Just by way of a warning, he misidentifies a ton of people in the second video saying a bunch of characters are there that very obviously aren’t. So before this potentially gets carried away, take his “oh look it’s so-and-so” observations with a little more than a grain of salt…

        Quote  Reply

    160. Bran is bae,

      Around 1:06 it looks like Ned vs Dayne with two swords in one on one duel. Ned (whoever is casted in that role) moves almost like Sean Bean as Ned in a fight against Jaime Lannister. And the most interesting part, then around 1:39 another guy comes from behind and that’s the end for Ser Arthur Dayne. By the look of it, he was going to kill Ned for sure. Could it be Howland Reed?

        Quote  Reply

    161. Matty C,

      I confess the scene itself is not that bad, just that… unfortunate description of Sam’s manhood. It’s also still less gross than the needlessly detailed description of Tyrion’s “man’s staff” from ASoS.

      Cersei’s bizarre sex scene with Taena Merryweather is the worst of them all to me. The Myrish swamp bit is cringeworthy for sure, but I think the worst part of that scene was actually Cersei’s exposition about what she did with Robert’s “pale sticky princes” after she had sex with him. I’m not sure why that particular bit of information was crucial or what narrative purpose it served other than to perhaps give some insight into her relationship with Robert. It’s certainly information that I could’ve lived without.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Go on Beanie, get him! Go on Beanie! …go on Beanie…

      But, yeah. Then he thinks he sees Stannis, Ramsay, and Aemon.

      I just hope we get a frame or two with Mr. Atkinson doing a double thumbs up photobomb. Something you’d really have to look for, to not ruin everything, of course, but that guy earned it.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Geralt of Rivia,

      My money is on Howland Reed as well.

      Guess it destroys my theory that Howland uses reason or trickery to persuade Dayne not to kill Ned. Looks straight forward Howland sneaking up from behind stuff.

      The second video is pretty funny. But maybe too much info. So be very warned. You will see more than you perhaps want to. I think it’s worth it to use spoiler tags for this one!

        Quote  Reply

    164. Lisa0527,

      It was indeed a bit more than I cared to see, but it’s still glorious. I can’t wait to see the finished product.

      It also does seem that

      Howland Reed will be involved after all, and I guess Dawn will be a normal longsword.

        Quote  Reply

    165. Lisa0527,

      Since you mentioned it. That was idea too, but it’s destroyed.

      I’m currently looking at the second video, half of the video I ‘m looking on the ground. Wondefull by the way. I have to say Jaquen H’gar ain’t got a thing on this guy. He moves like a wind.

      Oh yeah, I’m currently feeling my neck thanks to this video, but Mr. Atkinson deserves all the credit. Such a dedication to get there and filmed it. Funny he saw (according to him) Stannis and Aemon. If that’s not Howland Reed then I shall join Night’s King in his quest.

        Quote  Reply

    166. From what I can remember there seems to be more anticipation around this than around the Red Wedding among the book reader section of the fandom

        Quote  Reply

    167. ghost of winterfell,

      https://www.facebook.com/richard.atkinson.52056/videos/vb.815450622/10156045856310623/?type=3&permPage=1

      Lisa0527,

      I might add. They would never ever let random extra to kill Ser Arthur Dayne. It has to be him.

      Did you noticed that KG (assuming it’s Dayne) is wearing his helmet on the video. Here on the photos and video he’s not wearing his helmet. I think it’s maybe rehersal or something and that video from Mr.Atkinson real action.

        Quote  Reply

    168. Pigeon:
      Lisa0527,

      Interesting.

      a la Jaime’s city watchman getting a cheap shot in at Ned in Season 1?

      I’m going to be more than a little disappointed if that’s how AD dies.

      A sneak attack from behind while engaged in a duel. Not quite ‘comme il fault’.

        Quote  Reply

    169. Thanks for the link! Any chance it could be Benjen instead of HR? It would be a change from the books, but they could go that route maybe if they do not want to introduce a new character.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Apollo,

      He’s also pretty certain that Stannis, Aemon, and Ramsay are present, so I would take that observation with a grain of salt, or fifty.

        Quote  Reply

    171. thornofhighgarden,

      This. It could be he’s just throwing those names into the video so it’ll garner more attention, but if he legit thought they were there then I really wouldn’t depend on his face-recognition ability in the slightest.

        Quote  Reply

    172. I didn’t catch the Aemon part tbh, but did hear the reference to Ramsay and “Mr Baratheon”. It’s odd as you’d expect someone who’s gone to all that effort (ie. A die hard fan) would know that these characters can’t be there. Perhaps he saw someone in Baratheon armour?

      In any case it’s a much clearer video than the other, so looking forward to someone pulling some stills off this.

      How many of these guys were hiding on that mountainside- hilarious! 🙂

      thornofhighgarden:
      Apollo,

      He’s also pretty certain that Stannis, Aemon, and Ramsay are present, so I would take that observation with a grain of salt, or fifty.

        Quote  Reply

    173. I wonder what HBO and everyone filming think about this. Do you think it annoys the hell out of them or are they shaking their heads and laughing at this point.

        Quote  Reply

    174. Matty C,

      D&D do not write the show for book purists, they do it for more then 40 milion people.
      Out of whom around 15% are book readers. And out of these 15% about half are purists.

      They don’t care if you think a line is ”iconic” or not, they will write whatever they want.
      And this goes for all lines, not only this one.

      EDIT: As someone said earlier, even in episodes written by Martin himself, he chaged dialogue directly from the books. But crazy book-purists will say they forced him..

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    175. This guy is from Nottingham. Sean Bean is an English institution, there is no way he could mis-identify Beanie, to an Englishman that is like not recognising the Queen.

      If he has he should be shot for treason.

        Quote  Reply

    176. K Noelle,

      No one hates book-readers here, that would be ridiculous, as most of us on this thread are book-readers. I’m a book reader, Mau is a book reader, Wimsey is a book reader,..etc.

      There is a hate for book-purists. But just as much as there’s a hate for people who like the show, on other sites.

      And as I said earlier. There is no Show vs Books debate. This is just a continuation of the old debates from 2006-2012. As someone who has read the books since 2004, all this fighting is very familiar to me.

      The way some people hated S5, is the Exact way people hated AFFC, and the same way people defended those books back then, so do we defend S5.
      So this in truth is but a continuation of the fighting, among book-readers over the quality of the material in those last 2 books.
      Those who didn’t like AFFC/ADWD will like S5, I’m one of those, as the plot actually moved, and the story was more like we wanted it to be.
      Those who liked AFFC/ADWD will of course be angry that the scenes/stories they liked are not included.
      The differances will of course, grow only bigger in S6, and those to follow.

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    177. These new videos are much more competently shot, despite the wild assumptions of the author.

      The young Ned Stark does move remarkably like Sean Bean, but who knows if it is really him. And yeah, it does look like one of Ned’s men finishes off Dayne, or whoever Ned is fighting at the moment.

        Quote  Reply

    178. Two thoughts:
      1. I just hope that we don’t get to see Mr Atkinson’s head peeking over the rock over the fight on the show!
      2. The crew must be extremely stressed out right now… hope they still have it in them to laugh at the whole situation and at our excitement.

      e: basically what Chris said here:
      Chris

        Quote  Reply

    179. Dazor Ahai,

      He misidentifies every single other person he claims to recognize in the longer video. So while I’d like it to be Bean, he’s touring to promote the Martian now, so I doubt it’s him. And definitely wouldn’t take this guy’s word for it being him.

        Quote  Reply

    180. george,

      Yes, because Zafra is just perfect for Harrenhal. Come on, people. Give it a think or two. Harrenhal has always been filmed in a specifically built set in Northern Ireland.

        Quote  Reply

    181. Looking at recent pics/footage of Sean I’d say he looks around 15 years younger than S1 Ned (and notable slimmer too). So, minus the beard and with some makeup/ good lighting I reckon he’ll be able to pass as a younger Ned without need for CGI. Let’s also remember that if this is to be Brans vision, there may be some visual distortion in the scene, which could further mask Sean’s weathered looks.

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    182. And the Harrenhal set is no longer standing at Linen Mills. This was a fan wish (from here I believe) that’s simply grown legs and turned into rumour.

      Luka Nieto:
      george,

      Yes, because Zafra is just perfect for Harrenhal. Come on, people. Give it a think or two. Harrenhal has always been filmed in a specifically built set in Northern Ireland.

        Quote  Reply

    183. Apollo,

      Bean could easly play young Ned, put some make-up, a shave, some litle bit of CGI, and some Flashback shots, blury imagine, fog,..etc.

      I really need a confirmation here! 🙂 One way or another, just to get rid of this excitement.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Breathe! 🙂 🙂 🙂

      Mihnea:
      Apollo,

      Bean could easly play young Ned, put some make-up, a shave, some litle bit of CGI, and some Flashback shots, blury imagine, fog,..etc.

      I really need a confirmation here! One way or another, just to get rid of this excitement.

        Quote  Reply

    185. I doubt it’s Sean Bean, this guy’s just assuming it’s him…but he’s hilarious. ‘Go on Beany, get him’, ‘slayed him’ lol

        Quote  Reply

    186. I imagined that’s how Dayne goes down. An arrow or struck from behind while he’s distracted with Ned. Even the best can make a mistake and not mind their surroundings. It’s more realistic than any other alternative.

        Quote  Reply

    187. Pigeon,

      Not really a cheapshot. It was war. It just shows how Ned is different from Jaime. For Jaime it’s a game with rules and such. For Ned it’s just fighting to rescue his sister. But it doesn’t seem like Ned asked for it to happen.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Ser Dosser,

      Ned pushes companion aside, not pleased he sneaked up behind Dayne.
      Like the cameraman saying “go on Beanie”.

      The director after seeing this is going to shite, he’ll probably do another take with a slightly different ending from another angle.

      Apollo,

      Perhaps Ramsay is playing a young Roose and is the one who sneaks up behind Dayne.

        Quote  Reply

    189. Looks like their armor is not the same as the present Kingsguard. Good.
      I’m tired of explaining to my friends that Jaime, Meryn and Gregor Clegane are not part of the City Watch.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Lisa0527: I’m going to be more than a little disappointed if that’s how AD dies.

      Well, I for one always thought he was taken down Indiana Jones style. He was supposed to be the greatest swordsman in Westeros in generations, if not ever. Ned would have been a decent soldier, but definitely not a match for him as a swordsman. Crannogmen, on the other hand, are described as masters of disguise with ninja like qualities. I’m positive that in the finished scene Howland Reed will be CGIed to appear out of nowhere.

        Quote  Reply

    191. Damn, I watched the long FB video and the old man is Max von Sydow (7:50 min), he briefly talks to a crewman and the actors voice is iconic, no doubt what so ever that it’s Max. Which is logical since he’s helping to train Bran.

        Quote  Reply

    192. tyjon,

      That makes sense.

      Tywin of the Hill,

      Maybe it’s the lighting, but it does look like silver instead of golden armor, doesn’t it? So throughout the show we’ll have seen three generations of Kingsguard armor! During Robert’s rebellion, seasons 1 through 3, and seasons 4 through at least 6.

        Quote  Reply

    193. Honestly, for this shoot they needed to bring back Sean Bean…. it would have instantly become the greatest moment in GOT history!!! I don’t care if he looks old… maybe a little CGI, some make up, it’s worth it!!! Don’t replace him with someone else because it doesn’t make sense.

        Quote  Reply

    194. The long FB video is hilarious, now that’s dedication to the cause, SAS should recruit this guy. I like when he said that if he’s caught, they’ll leave me body here in the hills, lol.

      Can’t get enough of the video, almost as great as watching the real (GoT) thing; “go on Beanie, get him”.

        Quote  Reply

    195. vlad,

      Sean Bean would be amazing!! I still have hope it’s him. At least until Sue confirms he will not be on the show, she is the only one I fully trust. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    196. Lisa0527,

      Very interesting. I’m only show watcher but have heard enough of the TOJ descriptions and Jon parentage theories and when so many readers assume she died during childbirth I thought it was made pretty clear in the book, I guess not. So if she was injured during the fight that would help explain the long-standing sadness Ned carries over her death. Guilt that he had something to do with it.

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    197. Ygritte,

      She wasn’t slain and she didn’t die during childbirth. She died of fever caused by infection, most likely puerperal fever, otherwise known as childbed fever.

        Quote  Reply

    198. phantomstrife,

      No pictures possible. Maybe because of that picture of Kit, they strenghten their security now. It’s supposed to be battle in blizzard like conditions. This should be great.

        Quote  Reply

    199. I just watched the history and lore where Jaime narrates and in it Arthur Dayne is depicted as wielding two blades. One is longer than the other and has a more detailed cross guard.

      It might be nothing, but if that is Arthur Dayne fighting Ned in these photos and videos -And who else could it be really? – there may be a connection. Or I’m just grasping at straws but who knows?

        Quote  Reply

    200. phantomstrife:
      I imagined that’s how Dayne goes down. An arrow or struck from behind while he’s distracted with Ned.Even the best can make a mistake and not mind their surroundings. It’s more realistic than any other alternative.

      well, that’s a bit disappointing to me. Mind his surroundings is what he’d done during the whole fight, being outnumbered, so he definitely know how to do that. I’d prefer the net, unless that guy was hiding and not taking part in the fight.

        Quote  Reply

    201. lalla,

      He gets tired, most likely he already hits that guy, and assumes he killed him, or hurt him enough to get him out of the fight.

      But seriously? What did you guys expected? Warging? A net? When was it showed/implied that anyone used a net while fighting.

      Even Meera I expect to be the exeption, she never fought someone else with that net, so I don’t see why someone else would use a net, while fighting a KG knight, who are supposed to be very good fighters

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    202. tyjon,

      I think you’ve got it, there. That voice really carries.

      Also, Eddie Jackson could be mistaken for Iwan Rheon, at a distance. (So, I hope that’s Howland).

        Quote  Reply

    203. Gatehouse Ami,

      Also, Eddie Jackson could be mistaken for Iwan Rheon, at a distance. (So, I hope that’s Howland).

      Very good observation and point, they do look similar.

      So we have on set Eddie Eyre as Dayne, Eddie Jackson as Reed, Max von Sydow as The Raven and Sean Bean as himself, “go on Beanie, get him”. I just love that narration, of course it’s all unconfirmed hypothesis.

        Quote  Reply

    204. Mihnea,

      A net is very effective, if you find a way to use it. Probably if you’re alone you wouldn’t, but teamwork would do.
      I expected something like that, getting him from the back at a safe distance with a net or a long spear while Net kept him busy.
      It’s too much short a fight to get tired, imo.

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    205. @Selena

      I did ask a few days ago same thing, because I don t remember exactly what did Jojen said to Bran.
      I think it was just about how Holannd has saved Ned s life.

      On the other hand I do not think it has been ever said in the books either.

        Quote  Reply

    206. selena,

      The_Rabbit01,

      Not much was mentioned about that:
      “Bran Stark: When my father died, I dreamt it.
      Jojen Reed: You didn’t dream it, you saw it. So did I.
      Bran Stark: You have the sight, too?
      Jojen Reed: When I told my father about your father, for the first time in my life, I saw him cry.
      Bran Stark: And your father is Howland Reed?
      Jojen Reed: Yeah.
      Bran Stark: He saved my father’s life during the rebellion.
      Jojen Reed: Your father told you about the rebellion? Mine never did. But I saw that, too.
      Bran Stark: What else have you seen?
      Jojen Reed: Only one thing that matters. You. ”

        Quote  Reply

    207. tyjon,

      Yes, yes!

      However, I was also (and have been since yesterday) comparing Eddie Jackson to young Johnathan Pryce and damn if the resemblance doesn’t carry right down to the ears.

      HR=HS tinfoil theory still has a breath, if Jackson plays Howland. Does the casting department troll like that?

        Quote  Reply

    208. Apollo,

      Totally agree .in That interview where he acts like he doesn’t know what the reporter is asking exactly .. He looks younger .. Could totally pass for a younger bed at the moment.. Season 1 bed looked old and run down

        Quote  Reply

    209. Gatehouse Ami,

      Oh, I understand now, thumbs up! GoT to smoke a fag, my bro has me smoking again. Can’t stand anything but Camels, blame my dad for that, he smoked unfiltered Camels since 13, no cancer at all, yet.

        Quote  Reply

    210. I’m a little confused I think. Is Sean Bean on location, or are they filming a ‘slightly younger Ned Stark’ with another actor?

        Quote  Reply

    211. TOJ happening with Arthur Dayne in action gives a perfect oportunity to introduce Darkstar in the show.Just sayin.Not gonna happen anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    212. tyjon:
      Damn, I watched the long FB video and the old man is Max von Sydow (7:50 min), he briefly talks to a crewman and the actors voice is iconic, no doubt what so ever that it’s Max. Which is logical since he’s helping to train Bran.

      I listened and maybe… It’s very faint.

      I’m glad, in the longer video, they were hoisting up the camera up the mountain when they caught him. A shot from his angle, the tower behind them as they fight at its base, would be great.

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    213. The guy thought he saw Aemon, Ramsay and Stannis. I’m not going to take his word for Sean being there. You can’t tell who plays Ned from that video. He might as well have mistaken an actor with Ned’s hair and in Ned’s attire for Sean because he wishes for it.

      I very much doubt they’d go with Sean. Make-up won’t make him look that much younger, and they’d have to afford Ant-Man’s de-aging software used on Michael Douglas to make young Ned look believable and for it to be consistent. The casual viewer has to buy that this happened years before the timeline of season 1.

        Quote  Reply

    214. phantomstrife,

      Viewers won’t give a shite, it’s Sean “freakin” Bean, that’s all they’ll care about, seeing him again. The actor’s slimmed down since season one, and actually looks younger from last weeks interviews, make-up will have him appearing 8-10 years younger, and viewers still won’t care, it’s Sean Bean after all, period.

        Quote  Reply

    215. phantomstrife:
      I very much doubt they’d go with Sean. Make-up won’t make him look that much younger, and they’d have to afford Ant-Man’s de-aging software used on Michael Douglas to make young Ned look believable and for it to be consistent. The casual viewer has to buy that this happened years before the timeline of season 1.

      Best solution IMO.

      Get a younger look alike actor but have Sean Bean do the voice in ADR.

        Quote  Reply

    216. Luka Nieto,

      Shane snow,

      Thanks guys! 🙂

      I am super hopeful it is Sean. If the one thing that they are able to keep secret this season is Sean Bean coming back for one more glorious moment, I won’t be needing a Christmas present this year!

        Quote  Reply

    217. Ser Gerold Dayne: Bran Stark: When my father died, I dreamt it.
      Jojen Reed: You didn’t dream it, you saw it. So did I.
      Bran Stark: You have the sight, too?

      I don’t know how it would play into the plot, but I think Rickon has a bit of the sight, as well. He and Shaggydog were down in the crypts looking for Ned at the same time Bran and Osha were there after Ned was killed. Maybe Rickon can be used as a reliable outlet for Bran to convey his insights to the rest of the family. Hope the little guy doesn’t get killed in battle, as some here have mentioned might happen. I’m done with Starks being messed with, time for some Freys or Boltons to go down.

      Can any of you book readers tell me in which book the TOJ was mentioned? After reading about the TOJ here, (I don’t mind spoilers, I go look for explanations and histories in the WIKIs all the time. It doesn’t detract from the watching experience for me, it helps me understand wtf is going on.) I formed a mental pic of it: somehow I got the idea that it was at night in blustery weather.

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    218. Personally I doubt Sean Bean can be there.No way no one spotted him.We even have pictures with the stunt guys at the restaurant,we have pictures with the freakin horses who will film for this.Someone like Sean Bean would be spotted from the airplane,airport,restaurants or whatever.How could they keep someone like him as a secret?Seems unlikely to me but we’ll see.But in my opinion if filming ends and no one sees him anywhere near this chances are he wasn’t there.

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    219. tyjon:
      phantomstrife,

      Viewers won’t give a shite, it’s Sean “freakin” Bean, that’s all they’ll care about, seeing him again. The actor’s slimmed down since season one, and actually looks younger from last weeks interviews, make-up will have him appearing 8-10 years younger, and viewers still won’t care, it’s Sean Bean after all, period.

      Tyjon. And exactly how do you know this information that Sue has not broken, no other website has broken. The man himself just in the last few days has been in the US promoting The Martian. He is already starting production on a huge theatrical film set for release April 2016, about Jesus in Egypt based on a book by Anne Rice. If this filming started a few days ago and going on third day, how did Sean Bean clone himself to be in two places at one time?

      I would have loved to have seen him reprise his Ned role, but it just doesn’t seem like that is happening. A few days ago on the red carpet very short interview he didn’t answer like all the other GoT’s stars when asked about Jon Snow. He didn’t. He genuinely seemed confused and like “hey this is my moment here on The Martian, why are you asking me about a character who lost his head in season one”.

      People will believe what they want to believe when there is a lack of proof. This guy on this latest video? The one who is sneaking from over the top of a rise above where they are shooting? NOT a GoT’s person involved with the filming. Says “go get ’em Beanie” and that proves this is Sean Bean? He doesn’t say “hey that’s Sean Bean” he says “Is that Sean Bean?”.

      Mihnea I see no difference in what you are doing with this Sean Bean fan boy stuff than what you accuse the no apologist Stannis fan boys of. You sure call them out on it and say they have hatred. Again, we see what we want to see. For you, I do hope that Sue can find a way (since you will only believe what she says) to get the truth on Sean Bean. Because all evidence to the contrary you just refuse to believe it even when the man himself can’t be in two places at one time. Sorry, but it is the truth.

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    220. iridium: I work with iridium on occasion but mostly I really just think the name is pretty.

      What does one do with iridium? I know that it is in the platinum family (someone once contaminated an sediment sample near an extinction boundary by wearing a platinum ring!), but that’s about all I know.

      And, yeah, why in the world would anyone take a kid to that movie?!?! I was 17 when it came out (senior in High School), and I found it disturbing! It’s a cool story in either medium (rock opera or film): Rowling’s Order of the Phoenix was a very reminiscent story.

      I do wonder what is going to tear down the Wall in the series. Somehow I think that it will be tied in with the events of Jon’s (?attempted) assassination: but whether that will be the mayhem that follows decimating the Watch, the NW simply not preparing itself because they have deemed Wildlings rather than Others/Walkers to be the real threat, or Ramsay sacking the place in an attempt to find his wife and Theon, I cannot guess.

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    221. Ser Gerold Dayne: TOJ happening with Arthur Dayne in action gives a perfect oportunity to introduce Darkstar in the show.Just sayin.Not gonna happen anyway.

      Actually, the only decent way to introduce Darkstar is to, well, give him a good introduction. However, it is difficult to imagine Darkstar being relevant enough to plot or story to include him. However, one Dayne is not an introduction for another Dayne.

      Thronetender: Maybe Rickon can be used as a reliable outlet for Bran to convey his insights to the rest of the family.

      As Rickon is not one of the main characters, I doubt that GRRM and/or B&W will go that way. Instead, I would bet on Bran communicating (vaguely) with Sansa and Theon. If Sansa is to become Rickon’s “agent,” then she has to somehow figure out to find the Umbers. Divine intervention is an option here! (When you glue a god into a tree in the 4th season, it should perform a miracle by the 6th season…..)

      Hope the little guy doesn’t get killed in battle, as some here have mentioned might happen. I’m done with Starks being messed with, time for some Freys or Boltons to go down.

      Thronetender: Can any of you book readers tell me in which book the TOJ was mentioned?

      It comes up in Game of Thrones. Ned makes a couple of off-hand allusions to it. He has a nightmare concerning it, but it does not provide any real details, and it is presented as a bad dream rather than as a memory. So, it has a darker tinge to it than means anything. And we are told that Ned felt that Howland Reed saved his life there: I think we learn that from Bran after he meets Jojen & Meera. However, no details are provided as to what Reed did.

      Lisa0527,
      No matter how he dies, some fans will scream in outrage. However, what counts is what the general viewers think: and as they have no preconceptions about Arthur Dayne or almost none about Howland Reed (the show will have to remind them that he is Jojen’s and Meera’s father), they really will not care.

      Remember, this scene is about Jon Snow. It’s not about Dayne. It’s not about contrasting the Kingsguard of the past with the current Kingsguard. It’s barely about Ned or Howland Reed. It’s about a character who (unles the Dayneites or Wyallists are correct!) is a newborn infant at this time.

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    222. Right I’m putting my 2 pence worth in. First off I’ve been on holiday (Spain lol)so I’ve missed all the Jon and riverun fun and also missed one vote I hope? ( any chance sue?) so remember folks pack your iPad when going away as u miss loads. I’m like nymeria warrior princess I’m on my second re read and the tower of joy dream made my hairs stand up its massive to the story. I don’t want anything changed,ned and Daynes diologue needs to be exactly the same!!!! Can’t believe I agree with Al Swearegan.

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    223. JCDavis,

      I’m not saying it’s Bean, that’s not proven, I’m saying viewers would rather have Sean than a young actor, they won’t give a damn about the age thing, besides Sean looks better now than season one and make-up takes 10 years off, so the vast majority of viewers won’t give a shite about Ned looking like mid to late 30’s than mid 20’s. I would like Sean but it’s out of my hands, and it’s no deal breaker, this is all in jest, having fun, and so forth, so lighten up.

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    224. When you factor in the fighting and chaos that led up to the ToJ scene I don’t really think that de-aging Sean Bean to be ‘believably’ younger would be all that difficult?

      He was a grown man when ToJ happened in the show, and grown men who have been battling in a war for months will age rather quickly; and he was already hardened from growing up in the North.

      Factor in that when he reached the ToJ he would have been dirty, tired, ragged from travel and fighting, aged with worry for his family, his sister, and his men…and I think Sean would look perfectly passable with a little makeup.

      But I admit I also think it would be fine if Ned Stark was wearing a clown suit in this scene, as long as he is being played by Sean Freaking Bean.

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    225. Ser Dosser: It looks to me like Reed is playing dead whileNed and Dayne fight …

      I guess you could throw in the “Bran wargs into Howland” theory at this point. Howland is down and injured, and Bran (or someone) takes control of his body and sneaks up behind Dayne, delivering the fatal blow. I guess it’s possible. I’ve never been a huge fan of that theory personally.

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    226. tyjon:
      JCDavis,

      I’m not saying it’s Bean, that’s not proven, I’m saying viewers would rather have Sean than a young actor, they won’t give a damn about the age thing, besides Sean looks better now than season one and make-up takes 10 years off, so the vast majority of viewers won’t give a shite about Ned looking like mid to late 30’s than mid 20’s. I would like Sean but it’s out of my hands, and it’s no deal breaker, this is all in jest, having fun, and so forth, so lighten up.

      I was responding to the last post you made before this, quoted in my reply. Please don’t council me to lighten up when your tone totally set the mood of the post. I did research on Sean Bean before making any remarks about him. And to have half the responses about this topic be “it better be Sean” “I only want to see Beanie”. It sounds childish to me as if we the fan have something to say about it. It is laughable. I would rather discuss reality, what is and get more excited that we have a grand looking man playing the part who obviously looks very much like Mr. Bean all dressed the same, same hair and such…also a very good actor swinging a sword. I am excited to see it come 2016. ToJ is something I too have been waiting on for years. In the books, it just doesn’t give us that much information, similar Hardhome, but look what D&D did with that. I am totally hopeful and trust in them to take this where it could be fabulous. 😀 I don’t want to ever alienate other posters with my remarks, ever. But sometimes, like you obviously, I gotta step up and say something. How about a pint at the local pub on me. 😀

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    227. I see the fight as 7 v 3, like in the book but we’re just seeing the 4 v 1 part which shows how good of a fighter Dayne is. Also maybe that’s how

      Reed sneaks up on him. Dayne thinks one of the other KG’s has killed him.

      Whoever is playing Dayne is pretty skilled with the sword. Seeing him fight with two is gonna be awesome.

        Quote  Reply

    228. Mihnea,

      First of all, Hello, I have never posted to you directly, but have read most of your many, many, many posts in the last three months, after you appeared from nowhere to become the leading French expert on all things GOT.

      Secondly, all of those numbers you just spouted were literally pulled out of thin air.

      That’s cool, but not accurate.

      By what measure do you have any idea of the percentage of show viewers that have read the books? This is almost unknowable, due to things beyond book sales, such as libraries, people loaning their copies to friends, etc.

      Then you take that 15% and say half of them are “purists”, whatever the Hell that means to you, since I never used the phrase once nor do I believe in it.

      I was simply reflecting that someone can love a book as much as they want, and make a version of said book, but just because they really really Lurve it, doesn’t mean they will necessarily do the best job, or make all the right calls.

      I’m not bashing D&D, and yes, they can write whatever they want, I never said otherwise. Now, why you feel like you need to be all up in my face about the fact that they don’t care about me and my opinion, I have no fricking clue.

      Obviously, for everyone, there is a point at which you would not be accepting of any and all changes made. What if they just decided making Tyrion a dwarf was too complicated, and cast Jake Gyllenhaal instead? Would I be a purist if I protested? What if Bran just fell off the tower, because having Jaime push him would be just too much for the audience to take? Is that purism? Everyone’s level of tolerance is different when it comes to changes.

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    229. Mihnea: K Noelle,

      No one hates book-readers here, that would be ridiculous, as most of us on this thread are book-readers….There is a hate for book-purists…

      This is just a continuation of the old debates from 2006-2012. As someone who has read the books since 2004, all this fighting is very familiar to me….So this in truth is but a continuation of the fighting, among book-readers over the quality of the material in those last 2 books.

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    230. I hit the wrong button, posted only the quote, and then my edit didn’t take, so here’s what that post was supposed to say:

      Mihnea: K Noelle,

      No one hates book-readers here, that would be ridiculous, as most of us on this thread are book-readers….There is a hate for book-purists…

      This is just a continuation of the old debates from 2006-2012. As someone who has read the books since 2004, all this fighting is very familiar to me….So this in truth is but a continuation of the fighting, among book-readers over the quality of the material in those last 2 books.

      Why do you have to be so reductionist? This is still a false dichotomy. There has been plenty of flux in the online fanbase since 2006-2012, and many of us did not participate in that debate that you keep harking back to – in my case, did not even read the books until Season One was imminent.

      And how do you rationalize hate for what you like to call ‘book purists’? I really dislike that term, because it has become such a simplistic and sarcastic way to pigeonhole people you disagree with. There are plenty of us out here who enjoy both the books and the show, but prefer the books and consider them canon in a way that the show can never be.

      Yes, we understand that literature and TV/film are different media with different storytelling requirements; we don’t need patronizing lectures about that. Many of the changes made by the show (case in point: giving Arya great scenes with Tywin) have been warmly received by the majority of people who prefer the books. But we think that changes should be sensible and not arbitrary, or not seem like filler when so many scenes/characters/subplots that we enjoyed in the books must perforce be taken out. And we have a right to express our opinions about these artistic decisions without being jumped on. Analysis and criticism are intrinsic components of appreciation of any artform.

      As it is, though, it seems like anybody on this site (and we are on this site, not westeros.org) who wants to comment that they hope that a scene from the books stays in, or that they preferred the book version of some scene already shown, has to bite their tongue for fear that Mihnea or a few other regular posters will attack them with snarky remarks and lump them in with the so-called ‘purists.’

      The negativity from a few – certainly not all – of the ‘The show is better’ people here is really getting tiresome. Don’t presume, just because you sat through some flame war five years ago, that you can get inside our heads and know exactly what we think and why we think it, or accurately predict how we will react to some change. You don’t. All the put-downs make the experience of discussing the show on this site, which is supposed to be exciting and fun fodder during the off-season, much less enjoyable for many of us.

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    231. Firannion,

      Holy crap! You got inside MY head, and wrote what I was thinking. Only better.

      What gets me is when something is announced, a casting or slight change, and one of the first 5 comments is from one of those whom you have referenced, including some line like, “Oh I can’t wait to hear all the crazy purists crying salty tears over this!!!”

      I mean, is it okay to like things from the books? Is that acceptable? Or can I only like the generalities of the books, not any details or specifics? God forbid I actually appreciate the dialogue, that’s like the most irrelevant part of any book, as we all know.

      I just get tired of the same few, that make up seemingly 30% of the comments with their sheer volume, dismissing my feelings about books I started reading almost twenty years ago. Not in 2004. Not that it matters how long ago you read them, but let’s not act like, in terms of GOT history, that 2004 is a long time ago. Hell, in 2004, I had been waiting 4 years for the next book.

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    232. Matty C: Holy crap! You got inside MY head, and wrote what I was thinking. Only better.

      Well, I thought your post was very well-put, and it inspired me to get a few things off my chest that have been bothering me here for a long time!

      Cheers.

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    233. Lindaaa and other “book wankers” of equally foul temperament (and they know who they are) have soured a lot of peoples’ appetites for book vs. show comparisons and discussions, so people can get a bit snappy whenever the subject comes up… myself included at times, I’ll admit.

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    234. Matty C: Young Dragon,

      I always thought “Fat pink mast” was pretty intentionally funny, and in the context of the character and situation, fairly evocative without being gross.

      “Myrish swamp” is gross.

      I agree. ‘Fat pink mast’ would’ve sounded ridiculous coming out of some character’s mouth, but it made me chuckle when I read it, and I think that was the author’s intent. It stands to reason that a fat pink male character would, under the right provocation, have a fat pink [insert euphemism for erection here]. It wouldn’t have felt right to give bumbly Sam a sex scene (not an initiation, at least) that sounded erotic to the reader.

      As for ‘Myrish swamp,’ to me that just reinforced the contemptuous tone of Cersei’s treatment of Taena. That whole section, to me, was all about Cersei’s resentment of having been disempowered by having been born the female twin. She is trying on what it’s like to use her sexuality as a way to exert control over a woman, the way a man might. She is already adept at using (or withholding) it as a way to exercise power over a man, but has never experienced such a dynamic from the male perspective. In that context, mentally using a term like ‘swamp’ that makes the female genitalia sound revolting seems appropriate. Cersei is arguably what Second Wave feminists used to call a ‘self-hating woman,’ who unconsciously finds women’s bodies disgusting because she would really rather be a man and have the power and privileges that come along with that status in her society.

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    235. Robb Snow: Lindaaa and other “book wankers” of equally foul temperament (and they know who they are) have soured a lot of peoples’ appetites for book vs. show comparisons and discussions,

      But the famed offenders are on that other website, not here. People who want to taunt them should be going there, not taking their bile out on folks at WotW who just want to discuss the show within the context of the source material instead of in a vacuum. Let Linda & Co. rot where they lie, says I; no need to bring them in here over and over again.

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    236. Firannion,

      Oh, they come around every now and then…

      …but no, there’s no one in this thread who I’d consider a “book wanker” and I won’t chastise anyone as such even if I disagree with them about something.

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    237. Firannion: Do I get a cookie for that?

      Yes, two of them actually. And not the kind that just crumble away, either – the kind that are a little bit crispy, but have a soft, wonderful centre. *sigh*

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    238. Wimsey: What does one do with iridium?I know that it is in the platinum family (someone once contaminated an sediment sample near an extinction boundary by wearing a platinum ring!), but that’s about all I know.

      And, yeah, why in the world would anyone take a kid to that movie?!?!I was 17 when it came out (senior in High School), and I found it disturbing!It’s a cool story in either medium (rock opera or film): Rowling’s Order of the Phoenix was a very reminiscent story.

      I do wonder what is going to tear down the Wall in the series.Somehow I think that it will be tied in with the events of Jon’s (?attempted) assassination: but whether that will be the mayhem that follows decimating the Watch, the NW simply not preparing itself because they have deemed Wildlings rather than Others/Walkers to be the real threat, or Ramsay sacking the place in an attempt to find his wife and Theon, I cannot guess.

      Maybe we’ll find out that you can watch the battle of the Wall while listening to part II of the album and it’ll all synch up perfectly (although I actually did try that with Dark Side and Wizard of Oz, didn’t work at all!).

      P.S. Iridium-192 is radioactive and can be used to treat cancer. You can use high activity Ir-192 seeds as a temporary implant into tumours; palladium-103 and iodine-125 can be used for permanent implants. Mostly we use x-rays and electron beams though to be honest. Iridium is a nicer name though, and I’m shallow like that.

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    239. I love this website, stop by most days but never commented, just want to say thanks, it makes me very happy x

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