Sophie Turner teases Game of Thrones Season 8’s “big battle scenes”, doing justice to the characters & “unpredictable” ending

706 - Winterfell - Sansa

After throwing that big wrap party, most Game of Thrones cast members have left the show behind, and must now be fondly looking back at what the rest of us haven’t even experienced yet. One such cast member was Sophie Turner, who had, as usual, much to tease and hype up about the next season. And she clarifies her new Stark tattoo, as well!

Speaking to Digital Spy, Turner addresses her new Stark-themed tattoo, which features the phrase “the pack survives”, uttered by Ned Stark in the first book and echoed by Sansa in season seven. Predictably, some fans took this as a spoiler, which she’s quick to debunk: “That would be terrible, if I got the ending tattooed on my body, just before the last season came out,” she clarifies. “That would be so stupid.”

Regarding season eight, the actress teases, “without giving anything away,” her reaction to the ending: “People have come up with so many fan theories about how it’s going to end, and who will end up where, and who will end up with who,” she contemplates. “It really is so unpredictable the way that it ends up. I’m very satisfied with that, and I think that the fans will be satisfied with that, too. Well, we hope. We’ll see!”

She goes on to vouch for showrunners David Benioff & Dan Weiss, to whom series author George R. R. Martin gave “his blessing, and they continued in the vein that they thought it would go”. Given Martin’s organic plotting style and the unfinished state of his book series, an outline for the ending was as much as he could ever offer, which he did: around the time of season three, he welcomed David & Dan in his home at Santa Fe, as by that point they had to know where this story was heading before moving forward.

Just how much of the last three seasons were part of Martin’s outline and how much were product of David & Dan’s own storytelling may always remain a mystery, but Turner more than implies they were left with much of the creative burden once the show surpassed the books: “From reading the books thus far, it was their interpretation of where they thought the show would go,” she claims. “They’re still doing justice to the story, and serving the characters in the way they feel like they should be.”

Though some still wonder how all characters could be serviced in only six jam-packed episodes, as far as I’m concerned, as of the end of season seven, the only thing left for these characters to do is to reach their climaxes. After all, Game of Thrones has always been all about human drama with a country at war as the backdrop. That said, Turner assures us the last season won’t disappoint us in the “war” department either: “They definitely upped the ante. They’ve got nice, big battle scenes, that’s for sure.”

109 responses

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    1. “…as far as I’m concerned, as of the end of season seven, the only thing left for these characters to do is to reach their climaxes.”
      ____________

      Which is where Poderick Payne’s magic powers come into play.

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    2. Sophie T: “It really is so unpredictable the way that it ends up. I’m very satisfied with that, and I think that the fans will be satisfied with that, too. Well, we hope. We’ll see!”
      _________________
      I’m going to be Mr. Cynical for a moment. I’m not feeling reassured by the equivocating comments from the cast. I have yet to read one statement in which a cast member says, e.g., “F*cking awesome ending!” (Or in MaisieSpeak, “Holy Balls!”)

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    3. There won’t be satisfaction but a whole lot of online bitching and moaning because that’s all that happens now. Some of the criticism will be deserved but a good bit of it will come from people who, for whatever reason, have a vested interest in hating it. Seeing a lot of that in fandoms these days.

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    4. Ten Bears,

      They’re nervous. Whatever the ending is, you know at least a minority of viewers (a very loud minority) will be left frothing with rage by it. Just look at any comment section in which the ending is discussed: a lot of people would hate an ending in which much of the cast survives, in whatever context, whatever the personal sacrifices besides death; many other people would hate just the opposite, a bloody bloodbath, even if it’s justified by the story and the characters are properly served before their death.

      Mr Derp:
      Luka Nieto,

      Can’t we have both?!?

      I hope so 😛

      But, seriously, speaking of “having both”, I kind of addressed it in the article but not really: I entirely disagree with the notion that the quantity of battle scenes negatively correlates to opportunities for character development. Battles are situations of dramatic possibilities like any other! Every battle in the show’s history has kept focus on the characters. We’ve never had a Battle of the Five Armies situation, where the sequence is (supposedly) fun spectacle first and character study second (if at all). Even the battles sometimes criticized for this, the Battle at the Wall and the Battle of the Bastards, are all about Jon: his assumption of command and his (psychological) rebirth, respectively.

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    5. I have no idea why this popped into my head just now, but everyone who’s said the “I wish you good fortune (in the wars to come)” line has ended up dead soon afterwards. It happened to Mance, Arthur Dayne, and Benjen.

      Didn’t Jon say that to Dany last season?

      I can’t say whether or not any of this is related since so many people die on the show for so many different reasons, but it stands out to me as possible foreshadowing.

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    6. Luka Nieto,

      I can’t help but agree with you, Luka. Often times battle scenes mean a lot of quick cuts, dizzying editing, and glorification of violence for the sake of seeming “cool”…but not for GoT. They’ve been great at keeping things grounded even when the action is cranked up to 11.

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    7. firstone,

      Me too.

      And Arya and Gendry now that she’s older. I hope a spark of romance kindles and loosens her up. She’s so rigid. Geez. Robert and Ned always wanted their kids to marry. This match would be awesome!

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    8. Luka Nieto,

      At the risk of stating the obvious, it’s a blessing and a curse to have a story like this where fans are so invested in it and its characters. There is not a single ending they [D&D, George] could write that would not cause massive controversy among the fanbase, so their best course of action is to just embrace that and tell the best story they can.

      The main thing on my wishlist for the ending is that all the characters (particularly the main characters) get an ending that does their journey justice, and is as interesting and meaningful as their arcs have been.

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    9. Anytime you have an ending that is unpredictable and not something that is a popular fan theory, it’s completely expected that the cast is a little nervous of some fans not liking it, even when they genuinely think it’s incredible themselves. It’s always a risk to step out and try something different or unexpected. And on the other side of that coin, a more safe ending could be just as loathed by critics or fans. There are many recent big budget movies that have shown this sword cuts both ways and you can’t win no matter which direction you go.

      The cast is keeping that in the back of their minds when commenting on it. My only hope is that the unexpected twists and ending is earned in the context of the story, instead of simply pulling a twist out of no where just to not allow the fan community to guess the major twists.

      Also, HBO- please god keep all scripts and episode copies locked away in the deepest and most secure physical and digital vaults you can afford. The absence of legit script leaks so far when filming is almost complete is a good sign.

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    10. Ten Bears:
      Sophie T: “It really is so unpredictable the way that it ends up. I’m very satisfied with that, and I think that the fans will be satisfied with that, too. Well, we hope. We’ll see!”
      _________________I’m going to be Mr. Cynical for a moment. I’m not feeling reassured by the equivocating comments from the cast. I have yet to read one statement in which a cast member says, e.g., “F*cking awesome ending!”(Or in MaisieSpeak, “Holy Balls!”)

      >>>>>>>>

      I’m not sure if the actors on record are all underselling the conclusion to avoid any spoilers, if they really can’t tell how impactful it will be until all of the CGI etc is added in, or they don’t want to make a commitment in case the conclusion is roundly criticized.

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    11. Barbie,

      There is going to be so many epic reunions in Season 8… Arya Stark and Jon Snow – Arya & Gendry – Arya & the Hound and Nymeria has to show up is season 8 too.

      Since Arya is so connected with the Many Faced God (God of Death)? I wonder if Arya and needle might come face to face with the Night King?

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    12. More than the unpredictable part, I hope she is right about satisfying.

      Another great show I like the Americans recently finished and its ending was incredibly satisfying.

      Hope I have the same feeling with the ending to this story regardless of what it is.

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    13. Mr Derp,

      It’s absolutely related. Ned said that very line, and Jon is basically Ned 2.0, Jon has learned from the mistakes Ned made.

      I can, after last seasons Daenerys shenanigans, see Jon killing her…

      She is owed another betrayal for love, many believe it be Tyrion for the Lannisters, for the baby, but I see it being Jon.

      Perhaps she hears of Cerseis betrayal and fly’s South to burn the Red Keep to the ground as she has promised multiple times, that to me, would be more than cause for Jon.
      I don’t think Jon believes Cersei is on board and even if he does, Sansa absolutely will not.

      Burning the Red Keep would absolutely cause thousands if not millions of deaths.

      Perhaps the truth about Sam’s family comes to pass and Jon does as he did to Melisandre. Jon didn’t know Shireen but he absolutely doesn’t agree with burning people alive.
      Jon will not make an exception to her behavior in the end.

      I see a second Dance for Dragons. Two Targaryens going head to head against each other.

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    14. Ten Bears,

      And I’m glad they haven’t. The creators and actors do that every single season saying how much bigger the season is and how it’s the best. Yeah that gets the people hyped but at the same time, for the final season at least, I think it’s better to go in expecting a more divisive ending and the comments from the cast fall in line with that. It doesn’t even matter how awesome and unpredictable the ending is there will be some sort of group of fans that hate it. No way can they please everyone. The fact that Sophie says the ending is unpredictable is what gets me really hyped.

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    15. All the Chickens,

      I know!!! I’m actually shocked that they’ve managed to keep any leaks from happening yet outside of the obvious fact that there will be big battles. Definitely a far cry from last season where everyone knew what was going to happen practically a year ahead of time…that was such a bummer.

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    16. I truly trust this particular team to deliver a worthy conclusion. I am nervous for the entire season as a whole (mostly out of anxiety for my favorite characters), but I have no doubt they’ve done phenomenal work as they usually do. Just look at the classic GoT directors they’ve got to helm the last six episodes. Fortunately for D&D, they’ve had the pleasure of knowing the ending for quite some time so it’d be ludicrous to assume they weren’t keeping all of that in mind while plotting the remaining arcs.

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    17. Mr Derp: I have no idea why this popped into my head just now, but everyone who’s said the “I wish you good fortune (in the wars to come)” line has ended up dead soon afterwards. It happened to Mance, Arthur Dayne, and Benjen.

      Didn’t Jon say that to Dany last season?

      I believe he said it to someone, although I don’t remember exactly to whom. During whatever episode it was, I was frantic that he had said that because, as you pointed out, everyone who says it croaks. I couldn’t remember who said it originally, only that someone had, and that someone was a goner shortly thereafter. I came onto the site and made that observation and asked someone to fill me in about which character had said it. Arthur Dayne. So yeah, I said this a few months ago.

      Normally I don’t care about “I said it first,” but I’m feeling a bit testy today. In the name of being a responsible, proactive “adult” I committed to having a certain medical procedure that involves taking a great amount of laxatives then drinking a great amount of fluid thereafter, which means I’m stuck at home all day making toilet runs. This is probably the most forthcoming I’ve ever been on here about my personal life, and, wouldn’t you know, my first offering involves shit. That makes me laugh and I’ll take my humor where it shows itself today.

      But yeah, I hope to heaven Jon’s comment wasn’t prophetic. Now THAT would be shitty.

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    18. “That would be terrible, if I got the ending tattooed on my body, just before the last season came out,” she clarifies. “That would be so stupid.”

      This made me lol 😝 I love the way Sansa/Sophie says the word stuuuuppiid

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    19. Game of Thrones makes a killing (pun intended) on subverting fantasy tropes. For years, they’ve done that. But as we approach the end, its only natural for the main players to get settled into their endgame/pieces falling into place. I have no idea how much room there is left for subverting tropes in the final season but I am open to whatever the writers have in store for us.

      Maybe death is the expected outcome for most of the players left and they’ve decided to subvert that, but not by giving fairy tale endings rather by handing out bittersweet ends for example, Arya surviving, then finding life in Westeros ordinary, sets out on a journey to discover what’s west of Westeros, or Dany giving up her claim to the iron throne, and after going into battle against the golden company, sees that Meereen needs her more than Westeros. So she heads back to Essos with Drogon, while Jon stays North or heroically dies in battle (Jon’s fate has always been tragic). Leaving Sansa and Tyrion to introduce democracy in Westeros or finally allowing the kingdoms to be independent.

      A bittersweet ending does not necessarily mean death to most of the players of the game but rather not everyone getting what they want and being forced to settle.

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    20. Thronetender: Normally I don’t care about “I said it first,” but I’m feeling a bit testy today. In the name of being a responsible, proactive “adult” I committed to having a certain medical procedure that involves taking a great amount of laxatives then drinking a great amount of fluid thereafter, which means I’m stuck at home all day making toilet runs. This is probably the most forthcoming I’ve ever been on here about my personal life, and, wouldn’t you know, my first offering involves shit. That makes me laugh and I’ll take my humor where it shows itself today.

      Well, I wish you good fortune in the bowel wars to come 🙂

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    21. Little query that Long Islanders may be able to help me out with,
      Why wouldn’t GoT always be available On Demand for us? Is this a choice made by shitty Cablevision for some ungodly reason? Or maybe it’s dictated to service providers by HBO how often they can allow viewing of their shows.

      Secondly, where the fuck was my “John Adams” marathon yesterday?!
      I love having that on in the background on the 4th 😀

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    22. ramses: Secondly, where the fuck was my “John Adams” marathon yesterday?!
      I love having that on in the background on the 4th

      I remember watching that series a few years back when it first aired. It was good, from what I remember, though, every time I see Paul Giamatti I can’t help but think of his role as “Pig Vomit” in the Howard Stern movie “Private Parts”

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    23. Thronetender: I believe he said it to someone, although I don’t remember exactly to whom. During whatever episode it was, I was frantic that he had said that because, as you pointed out, everyone who says it croaks. I couldn’t remember who said it originally, only that someone had, and that someone was a goner shortly thereafter. I came onto the site and made that observation and asked someone to fill me in about which character had said it. Arthur Dayne.So yeah, I said this a few months ago.

      He said it to Dany just as he is departing for Eastwatch in 7×05.

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    24. firstone:
      I am looking forward to watching some scenes with Lady of Winterfell Sansa Stark and The Hound Sandor Clegane

      I think I posted my wishful thinking, fanfic scenario about this after S7 aired. If I did, and I find it and re-post it, apologies in advance for the redundancy.

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    25. Mr Derp,

      “Well, I wish you good fortune in the bowel wars to come 🙂”

      Nicely done ✅

      “every time I see Paul Giamatti I can’t help but think of his role as “Pig Vomit” in the Howard Stern movie “Private Parts”

      Oh man 😆
      Luckily for me that role isn’t embedded into my brain when I think of Giamatti.
      For me it is Adams, Sideways, then his Bob Zmuda in Man on the Moon

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    26. River: by handing out bittersweet ends for example, Arya surviving, then finding life in Westeros ordinary, sets out on a journey to discover what’s west of Westeros, or Dany giving up her claim to the iron throne, and after going into battle against the golden company, sees that Meereen needs her more than Westeros. So she heads back to Essos with Drogon, while Jon stays North or heroically dies in battle (Jon’s fate has always been tragic).

      I agree with you that Arya may probably leave for what’s west of Westeros, rather than staying to become a lady, although I would be so much happier if she had companion to go on that quest with her – either Gendry or Sandor. Not as a romantic companion, but just as familiar and welcome company. I’ve tried to imagine what Arya’s life would be down the line, after this story ends, and have come to the conclusion that as she gets older she will awaken to romantic yearning. Yet, I don’t believe viewers are really ready to see a sexually awakened Arya, nor is there enough time to do that justice.

      I certainly hope you are wrong about a tragic end for Jon. Maybe his prior death at the hands of the brothers of the NW was the pinnacle of the tragedy of his life, and he is able to claim and sustain a some measure of happiness and peace at the end of this story. Not fairy tale, just happier. He never wanted to father a bastard child, maybe some happiness will come from being able to marry the mother of his child, with the bittersweet being that the mother isn’t in the picture at the end. As others have said, no matter what happens, there will be a contingent of unhappy viewers somewhere.

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    27. Mr Derp: Well, I wish you good fortune in the bowel wars to come 🙂

      Pigeon: Sending a seat belt for the toilet, in solidarity.

      LOL, thank you both. I’ve been off here for a little while, it’s good to be back. Being even somewhat active on WotW makes the time between seasons that much easier.

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    28. Mr Derp,

      “Well, I wish you good fortune in the bowel wars to come 🙂”

      Nicely done ✅

      “every time I see Paul Giamatti I can’t help but think of his role as “Pig Vomit” in the Howard Stern movie “Private Parts”

      Oh man 😆
      Luckily for me that role isn’t embedded into my brain when I think of Giamatti.
      For me it is Adams, Sideways, then his Bob Zmuda in Man on the Moon

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    29. Ten Bears:
      ramses,

      “Stannis as Thomas Jefferson in “John Adams” = A+“

      Oh God…that’s right!
      And thus began my Stephen Dillane crush affair.

      And yet I was never a Stannis the Mannis kind of girl. Chalk it up to great acting I guess. A+ indeed

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    30. Thronetender: I certainly hope you are wrong about a tragic end for Jon.Maybe his prior death at the hands of the brothers of the NW was the pinnacle of the tragedy of his life, and he is able to claim and sustain a some measure of happiness and peace at the end of this story. Not fairy tale, just happier. He never wanted to father a bastard child, maybe some happiness will come from being able to marry the mother of his child, with the bittersweet being that the mother isn’t in the picture at the end.As others have said, no matter what happens, there will be a contingent of unhappy viewers somewhere.

      I just cant get over the whole incest thing, and I don’t think Jon and Dany would marry if both of them survive the great war. Bittersweet can be death or just living apart, even tough they’re both in love, Jon in Westeros, Dany in Essos. I know that Dany dying in childbirth is probable but I truly dislike it, its a disservice to her character, I’d rather have her in Essos or somewhere else unexplored where dragon eggs are hidden, waiting to be hatched. She’s the mother of dragons, why not have her story end trying to wake dragons from stone, restoring Valyria to its former glory? There’s so much potential for all of these characters, death is the easy way out in terms of telling their stories.

      And I know that they’ve said there would be no chance of a revival, but there is still so much potential on where these characters could go from here, Martin’s fantasy world is so rich, well-loved that I am not 100% sold on HBO not revisiting these characters in 15 or 20 years from now. Unless the ending is the NK killing everyone, then “the door” is always open to revisit whoever is alive at the end of season 8.

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    31. I have faith that the third twist is likely what they are all referring to and if it’s anything like the Hodor twist – it likely will be something that is surprising to many of us. I honestly never could have dreamed up that story line in my wildest imagination and though it was tragic, it was at the same time a brilliant piece of storytelling. Time will tell I guess.

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    32. River,

      “I know that Dany dying in childbirth is probable but I truly dislike it, its a disservice to her characterl

      Why do you think this is a disservice to her character?

      I used to think the same but have changed my mind recently. As far as disservicing her character goes

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    33. I hope someone sees it because I couldn’t find anything about this on the net.

      Did they cast Harry that they engaged with Sansa – or Alayne – in the books??

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    34. Arya bittersweet´s ending. Having to rule Winterfell out of duty.

      About the quote about “I wish you good fortunes in the wars to come”.

      Mance to Stannis. Stannis kills Mance. Stannis gets killed after failing his “quest”.

      Arthur to Eddard. Arthur is killed by Eddard. Ned is killed after a personal failure.

      So this means that Jon is gonna be killed by Dany and Daenerys won´t sit in the Iron Throne.

      “Doctor Evil laughs”

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    35. ramses,

      I’ll have to agree with River in saying that Dany dying in childbirth is a disservice to her character. Does it say anything interesting about her or her journey? What meaning is there in it? Sure, there is precedent for it, but that doesn’t lend itself to a meaningful ending for one of the central characters of the story. To me it seems like a convenient way to add tragedy to Jon’s character in that he keeps losing the women he falls in love with.

      Dany’s story is (broadly speaking) about reconciling her desire to rule — her feeling of right to rule — with whether she would be a good ruler or not for Westeros. What does dying in childbirth have to do with this? I don’t see it as a satisfying conclusion to this arc.

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    36. Well, I never read “unpredictable” before when it came to the GoT ending.

      Mr Derp:
      I like big battle scenes and I cannot lie

      lol too funny.

      Luka Nieto,

      I don’t think we should worry about season 8’s battles quantity over character development. Character development should have reached its final stage for season 8. I don’t expect dramatic growth at this point in the story. Sure, you may have some switches or hard decisions but I don’t see Jon, Dany, Arya or Cersei being any different than what he/ she/ them have become over the course of the last 7 seasons. We may see some Jaime “big change” because he’s only now switching sides, but even he lost trust and faith by the end of season 7 in the person he always loved and that defined his life. Other than that, I don’t expect actual “development” more like working through some situations with the traits and abilities they already have.

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    37. Was Ned’s ending a satisfying conclusion to his arc?
      Ned sold his honorable principles – and died.
      Or was Robb’s?
      He was a promising young king and loved by his people; he broke his oath because of love – and died.
      And Dany?
      She was going with the ambition to rule and to break the wheel – and failed…

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    38. “To me it seems like a convenient way to add tragedy to Jon’s character in that he keeps losing the women he falls in love with.”

      It could be a convenient way to add tragedy to Jon’s story.
      Or Jon is already dead…or not and her story remains her own anyway.

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    39. cos alpha,

      … Dany’s death could be a satisfying ending of her arc: to recognize, that it’s not enough to long and to strive for something, that one believes is one’s tradional right, based on wrong premisses; one should be able to fill the form and premisses should be right.

      Ned wasn’t able to fill the form and the premisses were wrong.
      And the same with Robb.

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    40. What WOULD be a satisfying end to Dany’s arc anyway? My imagination might be lacking, but to me, the only satisfying end to Dany’s arc would be to get what she wants, the Iron Throne. Anything else would be would be a disappointing end for her. Hell, even if she gets the IT, it may be at the expense of everything she holds dear.

      If she decides to go back to Meereen then it would show that she didn’t have what it took to rule Westeros.

      If she sacrifices herself for a greater good, then it might be somewhat fulfilling, but it would still be tragic.

      So, what WOULD be a good ending for her?

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    41. I can’t see any good ending for her, Mr Derp.
      And isn’t there a difference between a good ending for Dany on one hand and a satisfying ending to her arc on the other?
      The red door is closed.

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    42. Mr Derp,

      So with this question we are separating a satisfying ending for Daeny with that of a satisfying ending for the overall story or any other character.

      Hmmmm, I can see why it is taking so long for GRRM to conclude his tale.
      For me, it would be her gaining rule over Westeros and effectively utilizing lessons she learned while in Meereen as a foreign leader in a unknown land.

      And of course there would be dragon babies

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    43. cos alpha,

      Ned and Robb’s death served an entirely different purpose, and came at the beginning/middle of the story as opposed to the end. Also, neither are main characters when you look at the story as a whole.

      Mr Derp,

      Perfectly good question. I’m not saying that she has to live in order for her ending to be satisfying, but dying in childbirth feels off to me. Perhaps sacrificing herself for the greater good.. maybe?

      I’ve said this before, but I think Dany going from Mother of Dragons to a, well.. a true mother seems like an interesting turn for her character. Her insistence last season of her dragons being “…the only children I’ll ever have” could be foreshadowing of this.

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    44. ramses,

      I’m referring to an ending for Dany’s arc that’s satisfying, whatever ending that may be.

      I like yours. Sounds a bit too happy to actually happen, but I like it 🙂 You won me over with dragon babies.

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    45. Enharmony1625:
      cos alpha,

      Ned and Robb’s death served an entirely different purpose, and came at the beginning/middle of the story as opposed to the end. Also, neither are main characters when you look at the story as a whole.

      Mr Derp,

      Perfectly good question. I’m not saying that she has to live in order for her ending to be satisfying, but dying in childbirth feels off to me. Perhaps sacrificing herself for the greater good.. maybe?

      I’ve said this before, but I think Dany going from Mother of Dragons to a, well.. a true mother seems like an interesting turn for her character. Her insistence last season of her dragons being “…the only children I’ll ever have” could be foreshadowing of this.

      Death in childbirth is realistic, but I agree that it would be a rather underwhelming end for the Mother of Dragons.

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    46. Ten Bears: If I did, and I find it and re-post it, apologies in advance for the redundancy.

      Don’t apologize, post it. I haven’t been on for a couple of weeks, I’d like to read it. Oh, I did come on the site the in the wee hours of the morning a few days ago and saw you had posted a comment with the “thread count” trademark Thronetender quip. I laughed, it was the best laugh I’d had in a few days. Your remarks are always worthwhile so go ahead and re-post.

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    47. House Monty:
      More than the unpredictable part, I hope she is right about satisfying.

      Another great show I like the Americans recently finished and its ending was incredibly satisfying.

      I agree with both those statements. Americans walked a fine line and ended up bittersweet AND not violent. I fear GoT has a bigger hurdle in that while it’s subverted tropes all along, several main characters are on classic hero’s journeys (Jon, Dany, Bran, Arya, Jaime) and it’s high fantasy. The archetypes and genre are harder to subvert successfully.

      Thronetender,

      Welcome back. You’ve been gone too long.

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    48. Mr Derp: If she sacrifices herself for a greater good, then it might be somewhat fulfilling, but it would still be tragic.

      So, what WOULD be a good ending for her?

      All the women, arya included, getting together in a big harem style get together, doing belly dances for each other.

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    49. Enharmony1625,

      he main thing on my wishlist for the ending is that all the characters (particularly the main characters) get an ending that does their journey justice, and is as interesting and meaningful as their arcs have been.

      Id be very happy with this as well. And I agree that they will not please everyone, so they may as well make one that is satisfactory in this way.

      Gods I feel like we have discussed every aspect of this season, without seeing it months before we are ablt to see it! Ah the long night is here….

      BTW I have seen little if any talk of Gilly. Im wondering how much her new found literacy is going to be important here (obviously it already was in 7 but I’d want to see that go farther)

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    50. Thronetender,

      I’ll look for it. As I recall, for some reason the site’s algorithms originally kept diverting it to “Page Not Found” purgatory. I cut and pasted it into a separate document and fiddled with the spacing and punctuation, and finally it went through.
      Another poster (“Worf W Worfington”?) then tacked on a witty followup scene, and we went back and forth like that for a bit. I probably only have my initial post. I’ll see if I can find it – and if I can post it without it going to purgatory.

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    51. Thronetender,

      Everything about the way Jon’s resurrection was portrayed on the show was incredibly suspicious. To some extent we know how Red Priest(ess) resurrections work–and they definitely aren’t “get out of jail free” cards, but all of that was strangely downplayed there. We also know about the consequences to repeated resurrections, something Jon has expressly disavowed. Magic in this world is limited in its scope and appears so rarely, but if the limitations of magic and the consequences of resurrection don’t mean anything major for the endgame, I doubt they would have even bothered to convey that information on the show, but they’ve broached the subject several times since S3 to keep it in the back of everyone’s minds.

      In most fantasy stories a resurrection of the “hero” would certainly be much more straightforward and without consequence, he returns from the dead and does not have to fear death again. But who doesn’t fear death in ASoIaF? Resurrection in this world operates by rules of some sort, with all these mysterious ties to magic and ritual and the Age of Heroes and ancient sacrifice. The conversation between Jon and Melisandre before the Battle of the Bastards in 6×09 is constantly overlooked in the discussion of Jon’s fate, despite having the most information to speculate about. Everything in that scene had to have been included for a reason. She insists on resurrecting him again as long as the Lord of Light wills it, even beyond the coming battle. Jon steadfastly refuses, but she’s ambivalent about whether or not she would violate his will. Nothing is accidental in this narrative and I find it hard to believe that the dialogue in that scene was superfluous. Last season the show explicitly foreshadowed Melisandre’s own death, and unless she dies towards the very end after the main conflicts have drawn to a close, her demise means she wouldn’t be able to defy Jon and resurrect him again even if she wanted to.

      It could happen any number of ways, but after removing any personal attachment to the character from the picture, I really do feel like the seeds have very diligently and poetically been planted for a second, permanent, sacrificial death for Jon. GRRM and D&D also have to have known that–of the two–losing Jon in the end would likely have a greater impact on the majority of readers/viewers. He’s nearly universally beloved and so much of this story hinges on making you love him, whereas Dany’s decisions (for whatever reason) are generally depicted as more questionable and her character is significantly more controversial. Ultimately I think the bolder, more dramatic, and more thematically appropriate decision for this particular story would be to lose Jon over Dany. But of course only time will tell.

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    52. I see Dany as a fall character like Robb and Stannis. An ironic but tragic death is in store. Some possibilities:

      being eaten by her dragons.
      walking into wildfire, thinking she’s immune, and she’s not.
      stabbed in the back like her father by one of her own men.
      falling off her dragon, or the dragon falling on top of her.
      hypothermia.
      starvation (like she did to Xaro and Doreah).
      like Drogo – from an infected wound she doesn’t treat.
      impaled by the iron throne.
      crushed under the collapse of the Red Keep.

      I could go on. . .

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    53. ash,

      The practical problem is that there are so many characters, each with devoted cheering sections among the fandom, that some are bound to feel shortchanged. For example, although he’s not a favorite of mine, I recognize that Theon/Alfie Allen gets a lot of love from the fans. I’m not so sure there’d be enough time, even with ten episodes, to give him a satisfying sendoff. Same thing with Jorah: As much as I like the character and the actor, I don’t see how they could feature him prominently in S8. He didn’t get much time in S7 either.

      As for me? I’m admittedly biased. I’d want the show to be about A Song of Arya and Sandor. (“No fire! No fire!)

      #SandorAhai
      #AryaSuperNinjaAssassinWarrior
      Princess

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    54. Enharmony1625:
      ramses,

      Dany dying in childbirth is a disservice to her character. Does it say anything interesting about her or her journey? What meaning is there in it? Sure, there is precedent for it, but that doesn’t lend itself to a meaningful ending for one of the central characters of the story. To me it seems like a convenient way to add tragedy to Jon’s character in that he keeps losing the women he falls in love with.

      Dany’s story is (broadly speaking) about reconciling her desire to rule — her feeling of right to rule — with whether she would be a good ruler or not for Westeros. What does dying in childbirth have to do with this? I don’t see it as a satisfying conclusion to this arc.

      Yes ^ I for one would feel cheated if they end Dany’s story with her dying in childbirth. There are nobler ways to go out, dying in the great war or I would even be fine with Cersei outwitting Dany, but to die in childbirth would be an unsatisfying end to her story. Dany’s in the great game now said Tyrion back in season 6, so for her to die in a way that is so inconsequential to the “game of thrones” would be a betrayal, in my opinion.

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    55. Mr Derp:
      If she decides to go back to Meereen then it would show that she didn’t have what it took to rule Westeros.

      If she sacrifices herself for a greater good, then it might be somewhat fulfilling, but it would still be tragic.

      So, what WOULD be a good ending for her?

      I’ve said in an earlier post that it would take a lot for Dany to go back to Essos. Like a tragic loss, someone very dear or her witnessing the golden company with slave children in their army. But my ideal end for Dany is her exploring the unknown regions, or restoring Valyria.

      I very much like Dany, she’s next to Arya and Tyrion as my faves but the reality is the North won’t fully trust a Targaryen on the IT (they might make an exception for the King in the North), the people in the South thinks she’s a conqueror out to burn them all, thanks to Cersei’s awesome PR campaign.

      But in Essos, she was well-loved, and before she left for Westeros, Dany was able to bring peace and freedom to the former slave cities. I hope D & D thought this through because in season 7, they kept reminding us that it takes more than a single lifetime to truly “break the wheel,” but Dany left Essos in the hands of Daario after a very short 4 year reign, her rule began in season 3. That’s problematic, did they really expect us to believe that Dany truly broke the wheel of slavery and gladiator matches in just 4 short years?

      I feel like this needs to be addressed in season 8 and that’s the basis of my argument on why Essos needs Dany more than Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    56. MMJ:
      I see Dany as a fall character like Robb and Stannis. An ironic but tragic death is in store. Some possibilities:

      being eaten by her dragons.
      walking into wildfire, thinking she’s immune, and she’s not.
      stabbed in the back like her father by one of her own men.
      falling off her dragon, or the dragon falling on top of her.
      hypothermia.
      starvation (like she did to Xaro and Doreah).
      like Drogo – from an infected wound she doesn’t treat.
      impaled by the iron throne.
      crushed under the collapse of the Red Keep.

      I could go on. . .

      Daenerys(S7E06): You’ve been thinking about my death quite a bit, haven’t you?
      Sorry can’t resist haha

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    57. TormundsWoman,

      Shouldn’t have said “character development”. I just mean focus on the characters over mere spectacle.

      cos alpha:
      Was Ned’s ending a satisfying conclusion to his arc?
      Ned sold his honorable principles – and died.
      Or was Robb’s?
      He was a promising young king and loved by his people; he broke his oath because of love – and died.
      And Dany?
      She was going with the ambition to rule and to break the wheel– and failed…

      Mr Derp: What WOULD be a satisfying end to Dany’s arc anyway? My imagination might be lacking, but to me, the only satisfying end to Dany’s arc would be to get what she wants, the Iron Throne. Anything else would be would be a disappointing end for her

      That’s such a weird argument. “Satisfying” means, in this context, “dramatically satisfying”, narratively meaningful; not satisfying for the characters, necessarily… which is obvious, I think?

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    58. Azor Asshai,

      Sad to say but I have to agree with your assessment. On second thought, maybe it’s not so sad cause I get the feeling Jon would be perfectly fine with sacrificing his life for the greater good. In fact, I believe deep down he knows it’s his life’s purpose.

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    59. Words cant describe how much im looking forward to see Jaime slaughter lots of dead people and being recognized as the true hero he was born to be

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    60. TormundsWoman:
      Well, I never read “unpredictable” before when it came to the GoT ending.

      You know what that means don’t you? GIANT KILLER PENGUINS CONFIRMED – GET HYPE!! 😀

      Hi honey *furious waving* long time no chat 🙁

      Thronetender,
      Hi you as well. Hope you’re feeling better soon! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    61. Luka Nieto,

      It’s not weird and I wasn’t making any argument. I was simply interested to know what other fans would find to be a satisfying end to Dany’s arc.

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    62. Some stray thoughts and predictions:

      1. Sandor will wield Heartsbane and use this “big fucking sword” to much delight next season… Sam won’t have much use for it after all.

      2. There has been much foreshadowing that Jon will die as a protector of the realm. Most recently last season, Beric’s conversation stated as much.

      3. Too much time and effort has been attributed to Daenery’s story at this point for her to have an innocuous ending like dying in childbirth. Unfortunately, it’s a fairly common fate for the women of Westeros, so it would be like taking the easy way out for cheap shock value if that were the case. Personally, think she will fill the Nissa Nissa role in the forging of Lightbringer.

      4. Conversely – Jon has already plunged his sword into her hasn’t he? Maybe the prophecy has already been fulfilled, and if Daenerys does carry a child perhaps that child will be the real “Lightbringer” after the war has ended.
      *Tinfoil Time* Maybe this child will turn out to be a peace offering to the NK and literally bring an end to the war?!?!

      5. Can’t wait to see the battle of Winterfell. So many powerhouse warriors with Valyrian Steel there. Longclaw, Heartsbane, Widow’s Wail, Oathkeeper, Arya’s dagger… Going to have some serious wight destruction going on.

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    63. Viz:
      Some stray thoughts and predictions:

      1. Sandor will wield Heartsbane and use this “big fucking sword” to much delight next season… Sam won’t have much use for it after all.

      2. There has been much foreshadowing that Jon will die as a protector of the realm. Most recently last season, Beric’s conversation stated as much.

      I still thing that Gendry will re-forge Heartsbane into other weapons. Arrowheads are a very strong possibility given conversations with the Brotherhood.
      A new V/S sword for Arya would be better than an engagement ring!

      I do agree that Jon will die (again)

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    64. Colin Armfield,

      I can’t see them reforging a priceless artifact like Heartsbane into a disposable commodity. I think they would end up using a lot of the dragonglass mined last season for that purpose.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Dany dying in childbirth needn’t be an unsatisfying end from a narrative standpoint. Perhaps if she spent S8 in the birthing bed, yes. But if she is mortally wounded fighting the AOTD, perhaps astride Drogon, and possibly destroying the NK… that’d be a pretty fulfilling end if you ask me.

      Latest tinfoil theory: See above.. Jon has to kill her to end her pain/ suffering and for their child to live. Cue Blood sacrifice/Nissa Nissa moment.

      Drogon goes apeshit and torches everything in sight- the flaming sword in the dark destroys the remnants of the AOTD.

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    66. Mr Derp,

      Nah I think it is foreshadowing of ‘the wars to come ‘ series 8 which to all intents and purposes we didn’t know would happen even though we all did 🔥🐈👑

        Quote  Reply

    67. Apollo,

      Everyone expets Jon and/or Dany to die – why not Tyrion? He has been heroic on occation – he might be again and bite the dust in the process. And that would be both unexpected and bittersweet, because, although Tyrion has no intent to die heroicly he hasn’t got much to live for either. His character development is over and I don’t tnink that wineyards and alchogolism would be a satisfying ending for him and neither would be running the country until some child ith no merits comes of age.

      Colin Armfield,

      I concur regarding Gendry reforgin Heartsbane into arrowheads, namely, into very specific arrowheads intended for a dragon. As far as we have seen, ordinary arrows can’t perce through dragon scales and dragonglass spearheads can’t pierce through WW’s armor. Therefore, I asume that dragonglass bolts won’t be suffiecient to take out Viserion, fire won’t work, too, because Viserion is very big and the Night King will be able to extinguish fire before it does much damage to his mount. Therefore, they might need a VS bolt to take out Viserion.

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    68. Inga,

      Coming dangerously close to Middle Earth “Black Arrow” territory there 😉 but I see your point.

      We know that there were Scorpions made for the King’s Landing Gatehouse, maybe they would be used there?

        Quote  Reply

    69. Enharmony1625:
      ramses,

      I’ll have to agree with River in saying that Dany dying in childbirth is a disservice to her character. Does it say anything interesting about her or her journey? What meaning is there in it? Sure, there is precedent for it, but that doesn’t lend itself to a meaningful ending for one of the central characters of the story. To me it seems like a convenient way to add tragedy to Jon’s character in that he keeps losing the women he falls in love with.

      Too right. With all due respect for childbirth and mothers who face its dangers even today, it nonetheless is a totally unsuitable ending for a dynamic hero who has been proactive and empowered to be an inspiration and buck stereotypes for seven years. It is outrageous for a model character to succumb to such a lazy and meaningless death, one so clichéd that even in this supposed feminist tale five of the seven main characters (and many more) lost their mums that way. Dany as Nissa Nissa is even worse because it embodies willing self-sacrifice so another hero can prevail. Dany has already survived the traditional fate of those poor Indian widows who (still) undergo self-immolation when their husbands die. As best one can tell from usernames, the fans who find Nissa Nissa acceptable are almost invariably male. Most would howl if Jon were to do this for Dany, as would I. It’s inappropriate and a betrayal of their personas.

      The main thing on my wishlist for the ending is that all the characters (particularly the main characters) get an ending that does their journey justice, and is as interesting and meaningful as their arcs have been.

      Perfectly expressed, Enharmony. IMO anything less, whether for Pod, Bronn, Yara, (even Hot Pie!) or main characters, is a disservice to them and to the readers and viewers who have stayed loyal to this story for so many years.

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    70. House Monty:
      More than the unpredictable part, I hope she is right about satisfying.

      Another great show I like the Americans recently finished and its ending was incredibly satisfying.

      Hope I have the same feeling with the ending to this story regardless of what it is.

      I’m not sure how many were satisfied with how The Americans ended, but to me it felt like it was definitely time to end it. IMO it wasn’t a very satisfying final season for the Americans (I won’t go into it here), but you knew from history it wasn’t going to go well for the soviets. A parallel could be said about GOT. It’s time to end. The kids are grown up, and the actors must move on too. Only Bran really knows what is to come, and it’s probably not going to be happy for most. I do think S8 will be filled with heroism and amazing acts of bravery by many of our favorite characters with a scale of production that has never been done before for TV.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Azor Asshai:
      Thronetender,

      Everything about the way Jon’s resurrection was portrayed on the show was incredibly suspicious.

      It was. Initially I put the length of time it took for him to come back to life as being tied to the fact he had been dead a while, but what if that wasn’t the reason?

      Tinfoil hat theory: What if R’hollor wasn’t the one that brought Jon back? What if it was the Old Gods? By birth Jon is a Targaryen, but he is also half Stark and was raised a Stark and he swore his oath to the Old Gods. Melisandre burned people alive as offerings to her god and birthed a murderous smoke demon. Hers is not a god I’d willingly follow; nor a god I’d want resurrecting me.

      I think Jon will survive. Dany? We’ll see. Hopefully in less than a year!

        Quote  Reply

    72. River,

      But in Essos, she was well-loved, and before she left for Westeros, Dany was able to bring peace and freedom to the former slave cities

      I did not get the feeling she was all that much well loved, and her freedom to the slave cities were short lived if her advisers were telling the truth. I don’t think she will go back there. But im not sure she’ll survive – she’s believed all along she will rule – what happens to her psyche when she realizes it won’t happem?

      And Ten Bears, yeah I know theres a fan group for each character (I also love Theons character) So the writers won’t be able to please them all. But if they write the ending so it makes sense to the individual arcs, count me happy.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Luka Nieto,

      That’s such a weird argument. “Satisfying” means, in this context, “dramatically satisfying”, narratively meaningful; not satisfying for the characters, necessarily… which is obvious, I think?

      I totally get what you are saying . Not sure the show can do both, tho they will try!

        Quote  Reply

    74. Viz,

      Maybe this child will turn out to be a peace offering to the NK and literally bring an end to the war?!?!

      In exchange for little sam! Perhaps thats what this was all about, anyway

        Quote  Reply

    75. ramses,

      I say why not rip off “Alien Resurrection” and have Dany give birth to a half-human, half-dragon hybrid. Similar to the way the stillborn creature was described in S1, but this time it lives.

      (Don’t mind me. It’s been a long day and a long week. 🤷🏻‍♂️)

        Quote  Reply

    76. ash:
      River,

      I did not get the feeling she was all that much well loved, and her freedom to the slave cities were short lived if her advisers were telling the truth.I don’t think she will go back there.But im not sure she’ll survive – she’sbelieved all along she will rule – what happens to her psyche when she realizes it won’t happem?

      And Ten Bears, yeah I know theres a fan group for each character (I also love Theons character)So the writers won’t be able to please them all.But if they write the ending so it makes sense to the individual arcs, count me happy.

      I would argue that she was well-loved or well-liked at the very least. Dany freed the slaves from the shackles of slavery (quite literally), but there was a minority in the populace who weren’t happy with the decisions she’s made. That’s expected, you’d expect some pushback especially when she implemented a lot of major changes. Dany did tweak their way of life and that’s significant.

      And yes, Dany believes that she should rule and that is because she can, she is made for this, the question is where should she rule? in Westeros or Essos. I go back to Missandei in season 7 telling Jon and Davos, “she’s not our queen because she’s the daughter of some king we never knew. she’s the queen we chose.”

      Dany earned her army and their respect. Worked her way up. Sure she’s imperfect, and loses her temper sometimes, but that is Dany’s arc. Which has been infused with complexities unique to her character, and only she can handle with aplomb.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Viz,
      I’ve been skim reading these comments as it’s very hot here and I can’t concentrate properly. I read your second paragraph and initially thought you meant Tyrion could die a glorious death being flung as human cannonball from a weapon. Well, it would certainly be an unexpected ending for him! 😉

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    78. I know Sophie is known to troll the fan base but her comments here appear genuine. The only comment I am unsure of is how detailed the outline GRRM gave was, I mean how would she know? My own personal theory is that S6 was pretty close but S7/8 D&D will have to use more creative strengths.

        Quote  Reply

    79. All the Chickens:
      Anytime you have an ending that is unpredictable and not something that is a popular fan theory, it’s completely expected that the cast is a little nervous of some fans not liking it, even when they genuinely think it’s incredible themselves. It’s always a risk to step out and try something different or unexpected. And on the other side of that coin, amore safe ending could be just as loathed by critics or fans. There are many recent big budget movies that have shown this sword cuts both ways and you can’t win no matter which direction you go.

      The cast is keeping that in the back of their minds when commenting on it. My only hope is that the unexpected twists and ending is earned in the context of the story, instead of simply pulling a twist out of no where just to not allow the fan community to guess the major twists.

      Also, HBO- please god keep all scripts and episode copies locked away in the deepest and most secure physical and digital vaults you can afford. The absence of legit script leaks so far when filming is almost complete is a good sign.

      I totally agree about the absence of leaks being great, my only concern is any supposed leaks coming now can’t be debunked by set filming our best chance will be the first trailer but that’s unlikely until towards the end of the year so we can expect lots of fake leaks to be given too much attention over the next few months.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Thronetender: I agree with you that Arya may probably leave for what’s west of Westeros, rather than staying to become a lady, although I would be so much happier if she had companion to go on that quest with her – either Gendry or Sandor. Not as a romantic companion, but just as familiar and welcome company.I’ve tried to imagine what Arya’s life would be down the line, after this story ends, and have come to the conclusion that as she gets older she will awaken to romantic yearning. Yet, I don’t believe viewers are really ready to see a sexually awakened Arya, nor is there enough time to do that justice.

      I certainly hope you are wrong about a tragic end for Jon.Maybe his prior death at the hands of the brothers of the NW was the pinnacle of the tragedy of his life, and he is able to claim and sustain a some measure of happiness and peace at the end of this story. Not fairy tale, just happier. He never wanted to father a bastard child, maybe some happiness will come from being able to marry the mother of his child, with the bittersweet being that the mother isn’t in the picture at the end.As others have said, no matter what happens, there will be a contingent of unhappy viewers somewhere.

      For me if Jon ends up ruling it will be bittersweet, he never wanted to rule but will do so because he is honour bound to do so.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Barbie:
      firstone,

      Me too.

      And Arya and Gendry now that she’s older.I hope a spark of romance kindles and loosens her up. She’s so rigid. Geez. Robert and Ned always wanted their kids to marry. This match would be awesome!

      I really hope that Arya doesn’t end up married to Gendry wasn’t the whole point of her story that she didn’t want that; she wanted to be more than the sum of her female parts and her ability to reproduce. Arya getting married would be a predictable end to her story and not everyone or everything has to end romantically or with everyone paired off, like that was going to make everything right.

      As Dani said about breaking the wheel, that was also the role of women in the new order, just my opinion.

      I’m also not sure Ned did want his children to marry into Robert’s family, like being hand of the King I think he felt that this would good politics as his marriage had been, but more duty bound than anything as I am not convinced Ned really liked the man Robert had become.

        Quote  Reply

    82. ash,

      Right! I’ll have to look back but was the AOTD actually “marching” before little Sam was brought south? I thought at that point they were just making their artsy designs with human limbs, which we haven’t seen since.

      Could all of this death and destruction be because they stopped getting a steady supply of children from Craster?

        Quote  Reply

    83. Viz,

      They marched south before that. Remember Fist of the First Men fight? Sam hid behind the rock..the AOTD was already marching. After the battle they retured to Crastors Keep and that is when Gilly had lil Sam, and the mutiny and Sam, Gilly and lil Sam left because of the mutiny.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Jon Snowed,

      I don’t know about that. For all Jon’s protestations, when he was named King in the North, he seemed elated, and it was one of the sweetest moments for the show.

        Quote  Reply

    85. River: I would argue that she was well-loved or well-liked at the very least. Dany freed the slaves from the shackles of slavery (quite literally), but there was a minority in the populace who weren’t happy with the decisions she’s made. That’s expected, you’d expect some pushback especially when she implemented a lot of major changes. Dany did tweak their way of life and that’s significant.

      And yes, Dany believes that she should rule and that is because she can, she is made for this, the question is where should she rule? in Westeros or Essos. I go back to Missandei in season 7 telling Jon and Davos, “she’s not our queen because she’s the daughter of some king we never knew. she’s the queen we chose.”


      Dany earned her army and their respect. Worked her way up. Sure she’s imperfect, and loses her temper sometimes, but that is Dany’s arc. Which has been infused with complexities unique to her character, and only she can handle with aplomb.

      Not sure she was well loved in Essos remember the reaction when she had one of her advisors (I forget his name) executed for killing a Harpy? Dany believed she was doing good but couldn’t understand why she was not universally loved was my take.

        Quote  Reply

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