Season 5 is “definitely bigger” says Kit Harington

Kit

Kit Harington talks Game of Thrones in the UK’s Telegraph, while promoting his new film Testament of Youth, and offers up a few interesting tidbits on the upcoming season.

Harington asserts that he does think the show can top its huge fourth season and admits he’d been worried about that. He says of the fifth season, “The thing I noticed this year is that they threw so much money at it.”

The actor adds, “There’s one scene for me which took a month to film. And it wasn’t even the whole thing, it was one section.” He elaborates, “So on scale it’s definitely bigger. I don’t think we can get more gruesome or more naked, but on scale it’s definitely got bigger.”

As for the long-term finish of the epic story, Harington claims that there are still only three people who know the ending of Game of Thrones– executive producers David Benioff and Dan Weiss, and the author himself, George R.R. Martin.

Sue the Fury: What sequence do you think took a month for Kit to film? Some fans had speculated we might see some of the Hardhome action this year, moved onscreen. Or another battle?

161 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I think it’s definitely Hardhome. Nothing else comes to mind. Plus, it’s made for television.

      Wildlings driven to cannabalism, Bravoosi only taking the women and children (could we get a Salladhor appearance?), wights in the woods, dead things in the water!

      I said a few months ago I thought it would make a great action scene, but I didn’t know if they would have time for it. Since it looks like they do, (or some other action scene) to me this means ‘for the watch’ will be pushed back to season 6.

      I think it’s good though. With the wildlings, Thormund, Jon being elected LC, Stannis and Melisandre, etc. and now possibly Hardhome, I think we have plenty if material for a strong season at the Wall. With or without ‘for the watch.’

        Quote  Reply

    2. “I don’t think we can get more gruesome or more naked,” is the comment I’m wondering about. Does he literally mean naked, or is that a substitute for “honest”, “raw”, etc?

        Quote  Reply

    3. From a tv standpoint fans r wondering

      where the white walkers are so hardhome seems like a necessary sequence and jon needs some time as lc

        Quote  Reply

    4. Abyss,

      Ah. I see. Perhaps watching the video would have allowed me to catch that, but I’m not in a video watching mood. :p Went by written text. Thanks for the reply.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Has Rory McCan got any new gigs he’s working on? You’d think after his GOT work he’d be a hot commodity. Unless

      CLEGANEBOWL FUCKING CONFIRMED!

        Quote  Reply

    6. Jesterr2234,

      Jon intended to lead the raid on Hardhome himself until the Ramsay/Stannis situation got in the way. If they’re reordering things a bit so Hardhome happens a bit earlier, I could see him leading the attack like he always planned to, failing, and then being back at the Wall by season’s end. There’s really no other possible scene that would take that long to film and would plausibly involve Jon, unless they’re getting really deep into Winds territory.

        Quote  Reply

    7. There is nothing in Jon’s ADWD story that would take a month to film so it has to be something that is either invented totally (not very likely) or moved up from TWOW, or shifted a bit to include Jon more-

      like Hardhome. They need something for Jon to do this year, and it doesn’t seem like we’re getting to the For the Watch

      point yet.

        Quote  Reply

    8. I wonder if we get a flashback of

      Melisandre as a child slave (her name was Melony). Being sold from Lot 7 to the red temple. If I recall that painful memory caused her to bleed spontaneously. Would go along way towards humanizing her character and fits with the slavery arc the show will delve deeper into.

        Quote  Reply

    9. I don’t think we’re ever getting “For the Watch”.

      Let me rephrase that: we’ll get some version of it in early season 6, but it won’t be the big deal it is in the books and

      Jon won’t die. If he dies, it can only be in the season 5 finale, where that will have the necessary weight, and it doesn’t look like that’s happening.

      .

        Quote  Reply

    10. I was thinking the big thing might be

      the Wildings, giants, mammoths etc. coming over from Beyond the Wall into Castle Black etc.

      Although would that kind of mass exodus really take a month to film?

        Quote  Reply

    11. Turncloak,

      Unlikely. They’ve removed the humanising elements of her character in the past quite deliberately (the “spill the cup” line that makes it clear she doesn’t want to kill Cressen , and writing out Seaworth’s other son) in my opinion. They’ve made her a bit more a sultry femme fatale for the series.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Renly’s Peach,

      I have chuckled a bit at the reactions to him saying things like “It’s the best season yet!”. He’s hardly going to say “Well, in my opinion it’s not as good as the last season.”, is he?

        Quote  Reply

    13. Fall_Of_Byzantium,

      Yeah, but him saying he thought the show might lose its focus a bit, and discovering he was wrong does kinda say something. It means D&D have successfully taken two books worth of dense material and managed to fit it into one very full season that, at least in Kit’s opinion, is pretty damn good.

        Quote  Reply

    14. Hodor H’ghar:
      I hate to say this, but his new movie looks pretty ghey.

      What does that even mean? Testament of Youth is a literary classic and one of the most celebrated works related to the first World War.

        Quote  Reply

    15. Fall_Of_Byzantium: ons to him saying things like “It’s the best season yet!”. He’s hardly going

      I don’t think he did say that though does he? (I can’t watch the vid at the moment). He said it was the biggest. And that they’ve thrown a lot of money at it. That sounds to me like he’s damning it with faint praise somewhat…

        Quote  Reply

    16. I’m not usually so cynical, and I WANT to get excited, but… The actors are clearly briefed every year to say something hyperbolic yet utterly vague about the upcoming season. There isn’t much to read from these comments, I don’t think.

      I’m not complaining – I wouldn’t expect them to reveal anything too detailed, and it is tough in interview situations when someone asks open questions about something and there’s all these details you know you CAN’T say.

      Even though this season is “biggest yet”, after previous seasons have been billed as “most exciting yet”, “darkest yet”, and “nudest yet” (probably), there is still a part of me that wants to batter the cynic within and start expecting some of those massive battles to start kicking off.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Wasn’t there a Reddit report of a while back,

      suggesting that there was a scene with the Night’s King flinging wildlings off a cliff? If so, that would definitely be Hardhomeish.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Busmans: What does that even mean? Testament of Youth is a literary classic and one of the most celebrated works related to the first World War.

      Exactly, don’t watch it then. The nuances will probably completely pass you by.

      It does get annoying when the only things Kit can say “it’s better than the last one”, but quite frankly, what else can he say? Although the scene that took more than a month to film sounds very interesting at this point in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    19. afeastfordances,

      Agree, for TV reasons they need to keep the WW’s from the pilot in people’s minds visually, so they need to/it doesen’t surprise me of they are doing Hardhome visually in e8, this makes more sense than Crasters.

      In this case I guess Jon is actually taking Cotter Pyke from Eastwatches place, they’ll probably do without the NW ships

      It would be a good way to sow the conflict of Jon caring for the Wildlings to prevent them being a Wight army vs NW members who want to leave them to their own devices. It could actually work well, because a Pink Letter scenario re Winterfell in season 6 if they do it would be like the same dynamic opposite and perhaps a “bridge too far for some”

      I reckon Battle for Winterfell will be like the WW attack on the fist at the end of season 2 where it isn’t shown decisively until start of season 6 when GRRM has presumably done a few more WoW material they can take influence from (I think there’s a Baratheon General cast for e9 pr e10

      I do reckon Ides of Marsh will be pushed back to season 6 ala Purple Wedding to prevent the potential of casting based spoilers re Harington

        Quote  Reply

    20. Asshat by the Shadow: Yeah, but him saying he thought the show might lose its focus a bit, and discovering he was wrong does kinda say something.

      Indeed, given that many people felt that the Crows book lost focus, this was a concern. Now, I don’t think that Harrington himself was a fan 10 years ago, but because of all the interactions with fans, he could well have heard people worry that this season would be a let-down.

      Sue the Fury,

      heh, you might phrase that differently! Crass, vulgar, demeaning, etc. all are near the mark: but I don’t think any young adult (male or female) wants the word “gross” used for her/him in the same discussion! 🙂

      Renly’s Peach: Well he’s not gonna say “it’s definitely smaller” ..

      That’s not true, although he obviously would not use that phrase. Instead, he would say: “scale it back” or “it will be more about character interactions and less about big events” or something like that. Those are the “code phrases” for “smaller” in the entertainment world.

        Quote  Reply

    21. @Sue & Balerion. Mod didn’t say anything gross or act entitled about Sophie, just made a simple comment. Stop blowing things out of proportion.

        Quote  Reply

    22. Mod:
      Yes, could get more naked, naked Sansa would be great now that she’s legal.

      Wow. Some comments are just not right. We are all aware that Sophie is a beautiful girl. To put out a comment like that, however, is tasteless. It’s like you’ve been sitting there like a creep for years just waiting.

      edit: I’d like to comment on the actual article as well, but I can’t seem to get the spoiler tags to work. I’m sure this is user error. I’ve looked at your FAQ as well. I’ve used them before, but I don’t comment too often…

        Quote  Reply

    23. Ghost’s Lunch,

      In a way, this is the same issue as Craster’s, if they are following what you propose. That is, if the TV series is going to show some big event that the book describes being done by an incidental character, then the TV series has to adapt it so that one (or more!) of the lead characters is directly involved. In the case of Craster’s, they actually made it two: Bran became directly involved this time, and Jon & the Watch took the role of a background character.

      What you propose is something similar. Moreover, if done properly, then it could show

      Jon being leader in visual deed as well as in name.

      They also could bring in all of the political drama and the questions of “what the hell is the Watch supposed to do in this situation, anyway?” stuff that is so prominent in the books and that this sort of TV audience loves.

      Sometimes adaptation is as obvious as turning a fin into a foot: but sometimes it’s as much of an alteration as turning a swim bladder into a lung.

      And, as other posters have noted, the TV audience probably is wondering what is up with the White Walkers. For that matter,

      So is the book audience!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    24. I agree that

      for the watch

      is definitely early S6 material now. It would be a great early episode ending like someone mentioned above like the Purple Wedding. Really throw people off and get the action started.

      I really wish we got the Battle of Ice this season though – mix up the formula. Ep 10’s first half wraps up everyone’s plot then ends on the battle with a cliffhanger.

        Quote  Reply

    25. This brings up a possible adaptation angle that I hadn’t previously considered:

      What if the seven seasons of the TV adapt only up to half of TWoW and then jump to a mostly D&D-created conclusion? That is, the TV show might spoil the ultimate fates of the major characters, but how they get there will be quite different from the last two books. In fact, we’ve already seen (through spy shots and casting decisions) that the fifth season is quite different from books 4 & 5.

        Quote  Reply

    26. I think that the big scene is a fight between someone and someone else resulting in a death. Probably have some boobs and butts in there as well.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Well I cannot wait to see Season Five. In my opinion, they should continue doing what they have done up to now. Don’t worry about having to top the previous season, or surpassing this or that! No need! Focus on each individual season and on good scripts, good character development, direction, production and adequate adherence to the source material! In other words if it ain’t broke don’t fix it!

      But based on the results of the previous four seasons and what “Game Of Thrones” has become and what it has done for popular culture, but also television as a medium…as a fan I could not have asked for more!

      Let’s also remember, that we shouldn’t hang onto each and every word that the cast say during interview as if it’s canon or written in stone. Jon is one of my favourite characters, books and TV show, and Kit Harrington has done a phenomenal job in bringing him to life. But though he is important for the GoT family, he only has a piece of the puzzle in terms of the overall grand view of the show. I’m guessing only the producers and a few others see the season in its entirety and how it will look and develop at this stage.

      Besides the non-disclosure clause in his contract, and those of other actors, really prevents him from disclosing any actual tidbits of official information. These are just blessed crumbs meant to wet the appetites of fans and slowly build up the promo efforts for the upcoming season. As we can already see those efforts are already ramping up!

      PS As for the duration of the show, in my opinion the show should not last more than 7-8 seasons. 7 would be ideal. Just keeping with the ongoing theme…

        Quote  Reply

    28. I remember Finn Jones saying there was a scene in the season finale that made him throw the script across the room. That still seems like it could only be “For The Watch” to me, but now I’m getting doubtful.

        Quote  Reply

    29. Sword of the Morning,

      I doubt that will happen. One thing to remember is that when they agreed to do this, they were assuming that the 7th book would be out before 2017. I mean, Martin was almost done with Dragons, if he went back to his usual 2-3 between books pace, the last book would be out by about now. Unfortunately, Xeno had nothing on Martin!

      Martin agreed to this because he liked B&W’s vision of his stories. Now, it is true that there are a lot of different plots that one can use to tell the same story. However, given that B&W now are limited by what they’ve done in the first five seasons, and given that B&W did this because they did this working towards whatever general plots GRRM had in mind for his concluding story (or stories, if Winter & Spring are different stories instead of one story in two books), it might be very tough to come up with new plots that still allow the important characters to tell the same story(ies).

        Quote  Reply

    30. Wimsey,
      Sword of the Morning,

      From D&D’s early interviews, it seems that GRRM agreed to the adaptation only after they answered X+Y=J to his satisfaction.

      Regarding SotM’s comment, I agree that D&D have selected which paths of many to explore and warp in order to arrive at the endgame. I’ll even go further and state (again) that the GoT endgame might not be the actual endgame….a false summit, so to speak….but a credible one for TV adaptation. This leaves the final, final endgame, respectfully, in GRRM’s hands.

      BUT this viewpoint turns many folks on this site into lawyers who state that it would be unlawful for GRRM to do so, no matter how much HBO makes from the show and trinkets/licensing/derivative material. So who knows….

        Quote  Reply

    31. Chris:
      umuckurlife,

      I agree that his comment was a little creepy but there isnt a guy alive who wouldnt want to see her naked

      Its a moot point. She’s playing a 14/15 year old (still)- you cannot depict sex or have someone naked portraying a minor, even if the actress is 18 years old. Would not be aired in the UK or US

        Quote  Reply

    32. Starting to get a little worried about how much they’re going to try and cram in at The Wall and beyond this season. I’d rather them do

      Jon’s election to LC, him dealing with Slynt (my favourite Jon moment so far), his interactions with Stannis and his dealings with Ramsay as well as his truce with the Wildings and of course the mutiny

      all properly than some jolly up at Hardhome. Send Tormund and perhaps another character or two to Hardhome and let Jon be involved in the perfectly good plots he already has.
      On the Sophiegate thing. I think he was being very tongue-in-cheek with that comment. I don’t think expressing his attraction towards someone (even if it could be seen as being a little crude) is that sinister. Lost count of the number of times fans have been aggressively pushing for Kit (or the male cast in general) to get naked and there’s never any backlash or accusations of creepiness.

        Quote  Reply

    33. Jesterr2234,

      yea because they never made changes from the book to show before. Like Jamie was at the Joffrey’s wedding in the books too. Just one example of how they never change anything at all

        Quote  Reply

    34. Hodor’s Bastard: From D&D’s early interviews, it seems that GRRM agreed to the adaptation only after they answered X+Y=J to his satisfaction.

      They said that was the clincher. However, that Martin liked their view of his stories and how to televise them also came up.

      Hodor’s Bastard: BUT this viewpoint turns many folks on this site into lawyers who state that it would be unlawful for GRRM to do so

      It would be an issue if they could show that Martin deliberately misled them. However, the truth is almost certainly that Martin misled everybody (himself included) about when he’d be done with the series. The HBO people certainly thought it would be done by the time the TV series was ready to finish. And, let’s face it: GRRM has been uncommonly slow for an author.

      TheTouchOfFrost,
      Actually, it doesn’t need to be an “either/or” here: all of these things could be tied together with Hardhome. Moreover, if they are going to show Hardhome, then they need to send a main character: Tormund wouldn’t cut it. Still, there is an alternative to Jon: Davos & Sam. (I’d still bet on Jon because that way, they could show

      Jon leading in physical deed as well as spoken lead, and also because that would provide a good setting for a lot of the “we should be killing Wildlings, not siding with them/No, the White Walkers are both of our Enemies/Then kill Wildlings now and then fight White Walkers/Um, that means that we fight the Wildlings twice, and they are harder to kill once they are Dead” round-and-round, as well as the “We shouldn’t be siding with Stannis/We aren’t siding with anyone,but he is helping us” round-and-round

      Greg: yea because they never made changes from the book to show before. Like Jamie was at the Joffrey’s wedding in the books too. Just one example of how they never change anything at all

      That is a great example of a change that did not change anything of importance. The rules for telling stories on TV and in books are as different as the rules for living under water and living on land. Adapt or perish, as they say.

      cubicz,
      Sansa isn’t supposed to be 14 on the TV show anymore, I don’t think. They’ve basically been progressing about a year per year, it seems. (They kind of have to do that.) At any rate, they could just state that she’s “of age” (whatever that means) and let it go from there.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Greg,

      And the unnecesarry sarcastic comment is for what reason ? I only speculated that it can’t be the Hardhome event because in the book Jon wasn’t there,i never said they can’t change it or anything .

        Quote  Reply

    36. House Ray,

      How so…or were you being sarcastic?!

      Wimsey,

      Unless they somehow work some of those events mentioned into a road trip to Hardhome? I mean I can see how

      making an example of Slynt and exploring the relationship/truce with the Wildings could all happen on the way to Hardhome

      but I think they need to be at The Wall for

      the election (be a shame if they missed out on Sam’s time to shine), any dealings with Stannis and I assume they’re still going to send Mance to fuck with Ramsay which needs putting into action too.Would have thought that they’d need to be there for “For the Watch” too as Melisandre needs to be about unless eh joins the journey to Hardhome as well?

      I mean it’s doable if they do the

      election, Stannis and Mance stuff early then have the journey to Hardhome mid season and then the battle and maybe the mutiny as the finale?

      . The Wall stuff has so much potential this season. I hope they nail it.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Wimsey,

      I would think that Sansa is still supposed to be underage on the show. She was what… “13” in Season 1 episode 1 and “14” when she got married to Tyrion which was season 3 episode 8. I don’t think there’s anything to imply that 3-4 years have happened in the last 12ish episodes…

      Even if we assume something “of age” happens on screen at the end of season 5.. I just don’t know if I’d buy it without time jump somewhere along the way…

        Quote  Reply

    38. TheTouchOfFrost:
      The Wall stuff has so much potential this season. I hope they nail it.

      Same here. I think that much of The Wall stuff has suffered over the years. With the characters – and actors – that are assembled there now, I expect it to be the highlight of S5.

      I also want to see Sam shine with his manipulations to get Jon elected LC. John Bradley brings such humanity to this role; I really enjoy watching him. Scenes with Stannis, Davos, Jon and Mance have great potential. Since Mance’s storyline will probably receive much-needed streamlining (no baby switch, no Rattleshirt switch), I hope that we get more confrontation between those four characters. And assuming that Mance gets sent to WF this season, we can look forward to his scenes with Ramsay (and possibly Theon).

      The interaction between Jon and Melisandre will prove interesting because the choices made now may be indicative of what happens after the Ides of March (which is looking unlikely for S5).

      As far as seeing Hardhome, I’m sure that it will be done well. However, there are other events that I would rather see on screen.

        Quote  Reply

    39. cubicz: Its a moot point. She’s playing a 14/15 year old (still)- you cannot depict sex or have someone naked portraying a minor, even if the actress is 18 years old. Would not be aired in the UK or US

      She’s only 14/15 in the show? I just threw up in my mouth.

        Quote  Reply

    40. TheTouchOfFrost,
      It actually would be pretty simple. You are correct: obviously,

      the election must precede this: Hardhome would be a reflection of Jon’s decision that the Vows of the watch mean protecting the Wildlings, too, not just protecting Westeros from the Wildlings: and that cannot happen until after Jon is elected.

      However, after that, they also could do at that same time the

      issue of whether letting Stannis help them compromises the Night Watch given that some NW members consider Stannis to be a rebel. Similarly, much of the interaction between Jon and Melisandre could use Hardhome and dealing with it as a pretext for the other things.

      Lady Wolfsbane,
      No, but probably a year has. At any rate, time probably is elapsing much more quickly on the show than it is in the book. If nothing else, the obvious aging of the kids (some of whom, like Turner, no longer are kids!) demands it.

        Quote  Reply

    41. cubicz,

      incorrect good ser, case in point would be Return to Blue Lagoon – Milla Jovovich was 16 when the movie came out – obviously younger than that during filming and she is shown nude in the movie. Its considered art so the “rules” concerning nudity don’t apply the same way.

      I believe wimsey is right and sansa is not supposed to be 14/15 at this point – 13/14 was her age in S1 I believe so now (S5) she is probably 17/18

        Quote  Reply

    42. mariamb,

      Would still like to see Rattleshirt feature in some way now he’s been introduced but something less magicky! Perhaps Jon could name Rattleshirt as being Mance and he’s executed instead of the real Mance? Therefore opening negotiations back up between Mance and Jon? I think the baby swap can be done away with but I do wonder what they’re gonna do with Sam, Gilly and the baby and why Shireen is heading up there.

      Wimsey,

      There’s options. But it’s a lot to get right. I just hope going up to Hardhome isn’t being forced in because they want a big battle sequence. Seems weird saying that after the first season and how we didn’t get either the Whispering Woods (would have been great to see Jaime kicking arse with his right hand one last time) and the Battle of the Greenfork. Plus it’s criminal we didn’t get to see the dust up at the Fist of the First Men!

        Quote  Reply

    43. serum:
      cubicz,

      I believe wimsey is right and sansa is not supposed to be 14/15 at this point – 13/14 was her age in S1 I believe so now (S5) she is probably 17/18

      I think Sansa is about 15 at this point. Not that much time has passed – each season of the show seems to cover about six standard months, so my guess it’s been two years since the story started. If the series ends at seven seasons, the whole tale would have taken four years to run its course. Sansa will be 17, 18 at the very end of the story. Too large amounts of time elapsing don’t make for a great TV storytelling pace. All the plots will lose momentum.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Wimsey,

      With regards to aging and pacing…wouldn’t this change the nature of the seasons (how long they last) in Westeros, assuming the show begins near the end of Summer? Just an interesting thought.

        Quote  Reply

    45. serum,

      Good observation, but I believe (theory) based on rumors, and it depends on young Cersei being in multiple episodes, is that the show will actually film Cersei (Nell) and Jaime’s (played by DCC) first tryst. Which could be cool because it will be very controversial (ala Blue Lagoon). I love such debates within America, Us (enlightened liberals and European attitudes concerning sex versus Them (Puritanical prudish backwards attitudes). The big benefit would be massive FREE PR for the show and if written and filmed properly could be very poignant showing the symbiotic relationship between them during their more innocent pubescent period together.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Lion of Night,

      Seasons are not tied to the orbital year on Westeros. (It’s a myth that humans recognize years based on seasons: we have recognized them based on stars for millennia now.)

      The only “scientific” explanation for how Westeros would work is if it’s rotational axis wobbles AND that axis rotates around the local star. Ours doesn’t: it’s winter in the northern hemisphere now because our axis points away (from the northern perspective) from the sun at this time of year, and towards the sun in 6 months. (From the southern hemisphere, it’s the other way around, of course.) For Martin’s world to work, the planetary axis would have to keep pointing the same way relative to it’s star AND wobble a ton. When the axis wobbles from pointing at the sun to away, you go from summer -> autumn -> winter. (Presumably a long winter in Westeros is a long summer in Southeros: but as nobody is down there, we will never know.)

      Or it’s just magic….. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    47. TheTouchOfFrost: Seems weird saying that after the first season and how we didn’t get either the Whispering Woods (would have been great to see Jaime kicking arse with his right hand one last time) and the Battle of the Greenfork.

      As Harrington notes, the budget is now a lot bigger. That is why they didn’t show any big battle scenes in the first season. Indeed, supposedly Robert was hunting on foot to reduce expenses paying for horses, too!

      At any rate, this is definitely a case where a lot of the important “whats” do not need a particular “where”: they need a particular “who” (or particular groups). Just as long as the NW “nationalists” (as I think that Hodor’s Bastard dubs them, Stannis’ people and the Wildlings all there, this is a story that they can literally and figuratively take on the road!

      And, as others have mentioned, the show really does need to bring the White Walkers back to the stage. A book could get away with just mentioning them (although it might get criticized by some for doing only that!), but TV has to show them. They are those old Grateful Dead fans, after all, not a pair of words!

        Quote  Reply

    48. TheTouchOfFrost,

      We haven’t seen Rattleshirt for a few years. Why bring back him back? I didn’t care for the “switcheroo” in the books and am hoping that the show avoids it.

      I also wonder about Gilly and the baby. Sam has to leave The Wall at some point and I can’t imagine that they wouldn’t go with him. But go where? Is Sam still destined for the Citadel in the show? And will Aemon die en route (to wherever) or can he die at The Wall? (I think that he can die while still at The Wall.) With no reports of John Bradley filming in Croatia, his time in Braavos may be have been eliminated along with his boring, never-ending sea journey. Regardless, Sam cannot be at The Wall for The Ides of Marsh.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Lucrezia was only fourteen in the first season of Borgia, yet she was naked, fingered, breast licked and fucked, so i think “a character must be 18” is just a rumour.

      Still i do not expect we will see Sophie naked, because the producers know her and Maise since they were very young. But i expect that HBO CEO of Tits will redeem himself for Leftovers, and we will see that beautiful 18 year old actress who is playing Tyene naked.

        Quote  Reply

    50. GaiusB:
      Lucrezia was only fourteen in the first season of Borgia, yet she was naked, fingered, breast licked and fucked, so i think“a character must be 18″ is just a rumour.

      Still i do not expect we will see Sophie naked, because the producers know her and Maisesince they were very young. But i expect that HBO CEO of Tits will redeem himself for Leftovers, and wewill seethat beautiful 18 year old actress who is playing Tyene naked.

      Which Borgia are you talking about,the Showtime one or the Canal+ version with John Doman ?

        Quote  Reply

    51. tyjon:
      serum,

      Good observation, but I believe (theory) based on rumors, and it depends on young Cersei being in multiple episodes, is that the show will actually film Cersei (Nell) and Jaime’s (played by DCC) first tryst. Which could be cool because it will be very controversial (ala Blue Lagoon). I love such debates within America, Us (enlightened liberals and European attitudes concerning sex versus Them (Puritanical prudish backwards attitudes). The big benefit would be massive FREE PR for the show and if written and filmed properly could be very poignant showing the symbiotic relationship between them during their more innocent pubescent period together.

      I agree, if done right that could be an amazing scene(s)!

      GoT wouldn’t even be setting a precedent by showing underage nudity – nevermind my mention above or GaiusB’s mention of Borgias. There is also The Hole with Keira Knightley where she is shown nude and in Pretty Baby a very young (12 or 13) Brooke Shields is shown nude.

        Quote  Reply

    52. mariamb,

      Actually, Sam can be. After all,

      many other of Jon’s friends are there.

      We just don’t know what they are doing in the immediate aftermath. However, I’m inclined to suspect that this will be closer to what we saw with Brann in Season 1.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Wimsey,

      Perhaps.

      In the books, Jon has already sent Pyp and Grenn away. Don’t recall where Edd is. Other friends are there…Satin, for one, I think. I suppose that Sam could be at The Wall when the stabby-stabby stuff starts but not in a position to help Jon. If they send Sam away, it needs to have a purpose; he can’t just be wandering somewhere around Westeros.

      However, I’m inclined to suspect that this will be closer to what we saw with Brann in Season 1.

      Not sure what this references.

        Quote  Reply

    54. House Pines,

      Wow, I don’t recall reading that Finn Jones anecdote.

      If true, I would assume it is relevant to Loras instead of Jon. If Loras lives through S5, that could speak volumes toward his implied health status in ADwD, which is quite a debatable topic.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Wimsey,

      Ah yes, that makes sense. I think I remember seeing extensive discussions about astronomy and the seasons at some point on here; I largely missed out on it though!

      For the purposes of the TV show as its own entity, I think I’ll stick with magic as an explanation (along with teleportation to explain fast traveling, of course).

        Quote  Reply

    56. Lion of Night,

      Ah, but part of the reason why they seem to allude to more time elapsing might be to cover travel time. For example, don’t they mention that Arya hadn’t been seen in a year in Season 3?

      That is something that doesn’t make sense in the books, where it seem like all of this stuff has happened in only one year.

        Quote  Reply

    57. I suspect some kind of trickery as far as the month to film one section of one scene. Something like how they used a real bear for The Bear and the Maiden Fair. So he shot something for the scene, then weeks later they shot something else to composite with that, and then he had to go back and shoot some more for it and viola it took a month to shoot one scene.

        Quote  Reply

    58. I think that the sex issue would be a big deal if this were in modern settings. The fact that this is an antiquated world where only pedophilia would be underage sex makes it different: once you are physically mature, then the issues are marital vs non-marital and (for the latter) consentual vs non-consentual.

      I seem to recall that this came up in Rome, although the under aged characters in question were married!

        Quote  Reply

    59. Wimsey,

      Yeah, I think they do. My mental timeline of events is a little messed up with books vs. show.

      It will be interesting, however, to see what everything looks like this year in the show. I have a feeling that the show_seasons will be paced more like: Last years of summer (S1,2,3,4) quick Autumn (S5), Winter (S6,7). Also I suppose it is important to consider what length of time S6 and S7 will span. We don’t know too much on that front.

      EDIT: Not sure if she’s the most reliable source, but in this interview with Maisie Williams (7/14) she addresses the age of her character:

      http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/09/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-on-arya-starks-mindset-leading-into-season-5

        Quote  Reply

    60. Wimsey,

      Oh yeah, I’m aware of the budget limitations it’s just a stark contrast of them removing battle scenes then and trying to find them where they can now (even if it means giving less important ones more prominence). Still, glad it’s been secured in time for the

      Siege of Mereen. Still hoping for the best with slavers clashing with Free men, brazen Beasts, Sons of Harpies, Barristan showing why he’s the man, sell-swrods flipping sides, dragons flying around overhead and Ironborn storming the beaches. Could potentially be the best battle in the series if done right.

      I guess but I can’t see why Stannis would go north of the wall?

      mariamb,

      I dunno. It’s not essential but as he’s been introduced I like resolutions for characters. As long as it’s done effectively then I won’t cling to details but it needs to be good solid reasoning.

      I sense Sam and Gilly are going to definately skip Baavos (fine by me as Arya will be ahead of them in the story by that point I imagine and there is no real purpose going there as it looks like borrowing money from the bank is off the cards (unless Stannis has brought Tycho with him and they negotiate terms and he gets back to Braavos in time to welcome Mace Tyrell?). Aemon deserves a good eath scene. At sea kind of suited him but at The Wall would be fine too. I do worry that the Citadel is going to be cut though.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Wimsey,

      Oh that’s going to drive me nuts… there WAS a scene where somebody mentioned Arya missing a certain amount of time. Do you remember who said it?

        Quote  Reply

    62. On the sex issue… You do realize that daenerys’ character is 13 right? The things they showed her doing in season one were extremely sexual. (especially the sex)
      If there were any sort of law about character age, half of her scenes from season 1 would have been cut.

        Quote  Reply

    63. I’m riding the Hardhome bandwagon. I suggested that they send Jon there and make a White Walker spectacle out of it way back before season 4. It makes a lot of sense because the presense of the White Walkers is slowly dying away in the show and it really is about time to take it a step further- especially since we didn’t get to see the battle at the Fist. It’s also a great climax for Jon that isn’t a huge, unnerving cliffhanger.

      The only negative point would be that there’s no time for it, with seven seasons and all, but it looks like there might actually be time… Which tells me that the whole Northern arc might progress slower than we originally expected (if this is the snowy battle pushed from Iceland, does that mean no battle of Winterfell yet? if so, what happens with Theon, Davos and Stannis throughout the season? is there a chance for Manderly in season 6?), and that an extended and split season 7 might actually be likely.

      But this is speculation on top of speculation. We might be reading too much into things.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Hal Mollen,
      I haven’t read much background info about the adaption to tv, but the one thing I have seen mentioned several times is that D&D decided right from the start that the sexually active characters in their early teens had to be aged up for the show, otherwise they’d have to cut most of the sexual aspects of their story out. Apparently they started with Dany, deciding to make her 17, and then aged up some others if that also seemed appropriate, for sexual, timeline or other reasons (Joffrey was another I think).

      Having said that I don’t think it’s very obvious unless ages are mentioned if you’re used to the books. Or like me think everyone under 20 looks about 7 and a half years old anyway. I certainly couldn’t say with any confidence whether many of the younger actors are supposed to be 12, 16 or somewhere inbetween just going by appearance alone.

        Quote  Reply

    65. jentario,

      Yeah, Hardhome. Why not? They went on a nice adventure to Crasters mid-season in S4, so why not go on another adventure to Hardhome with some newly acquired wildlings and giants in tow? It could really drive things home, hard, wrt to the WW’s threat. Stannis could go south, Jon/Tormund could go northeast and Sam/Davos could go southeast. Also, they could get back in time for a Shakespeare homage (courtesy of Bowen), since I’m sure the wildling crossing into the Gift will go swimmingly.

      Ok….Consider me on the bandwagon as well.

        Quote  Reply

    66. TheTouchOfFrost: I guess but I can’t see why Stannis would go north of the wall?

      I doubt that Stannis himself would go. He does have other fish to fry, after all. However, Hardhome wouldn’t be the whole season by any stretch: given the structure of the book, it that happens after Stannis’ departure. Much of it could replace the issue of

      letting the Wildlings south of the Wall: that worked in the books, but it would not on screen

      . However, Mel. & a token force of “queens men” probably would accompany Jon (trappings of power and all of that), which could keep the issues that the “nationalists” had with Stannis’ troops and queen present. This could be emphasized if they have additional wildlings joining them along the way. And, who knows, maybe we’ll get some clues about the Red God vs. White Walker issue that we haven’t yet gotten in the books.

      Lady Wolfsbane,
      We have just started our annual binge-watching. I think that it was in season 3, so I’ll probably learn for certain in February! I’ll post you…

        Quote  Reply

    67. Lion of Night:
      Wimsey,

      Yeah, I think they do. My mental timeline of events is a little messed up with books vs. show.

      It will be interesting, however, to see what everything looks like this year in the show. I have a feeling that the show_seasons will be paced more like: Last years of summer (S1,2,3,4) quick Autumn (S5), Winter (S6,7). Also I suppose it is important to consider what length of time S6 and S7 will span. We don’t know too much on that front.

      EDIT: Not sure if she’s the most reliable source, but in this interview with Maisie Williams (7/14) she addresses the age of her character:

      http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/09/game-of-thrones-maisie-williams-on-arya-starks-mindset-leading-into-season-5

      I’ve tried to estimate timelines of events in both the books and the show, and they seem to be fairly consistent with each other, except that the show added an extra 2 years to Robert’s reign, so all the young characters born around or after the rebellion are aged up 2 years. Also, one quick correction, summer ended around the beginning of S2 (Grand Maester Pycelle received the news from the Citadel and informed the small council). Winter should be arriving around end of S5 or early S6.

      The only absolutely specific date I can remember off-hand is that the purple wedding was the first day of year 300, so a lot of this is guesswork based on various time references and guesses at travel times. Based on my estimates, Jon Arryn died in early 298 (around the eqivalent of mid-“February”). I think Cersei mentioned that it took a month to travel from King’s Landing to Winterfell, putting their arrival in mid to late “March”.

      Based on mentioned ages of Arya and Sansa at various points in the books, it seems like Arya’s birthday would need to be early in the year (mid-“March”), and she turned 9 (11 in the show) around the beginning of the series (possibly while the Royal party was on the way to Winterfell). Sansa’s birthday would need to be around the end of the year for things to fit, and she would have been 11 (13 show) at the start. Within the last 2 months of year 298, we would have Sansa’s 12th (14th) birthday, then Robert’s death, and Ned’s death. This puts Book 1/Season 1 at about 9-10 months long.

      Tyrion arrives in King’s Landing early in 299. Arya’s 10th (12th) birthday would be around the time she arrived in Harrenhal (Happy Birthday…is there any gold in the village?), and the battle of the Blackwater would be around “August”, putting S2 at about 8 months long.

      S3 covered a significantly shorter period of time, with Sansa & Tyrion getting married around early to mid “October”, and Sansa turning 13 (15) soon after that. If I remember correctly, Tyrion asked how old she was in both the book and the show, and the book answer was “almost 13”, and the show answer was “14”, which matches up with this timeline. The Red Wedding would be around late “November” or early “December” of 299, so S3 was only about 3-4 months long.

      When Arya arrived in Braavos in the books, she was “almost 11”, so show-Arya would be almost 13 at the end of S4 which matches up with what Maisie said. This puts S4 at about 3 months long.

      This means that the first 3 books were around 8-9 months each, but book 3 being slightly on the short side of that range, and split into 2 seasons has made the last 2 seasons much shorter.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Balerion The Cat:
      King in the North Carolina,

      No, but treating her body like something you’re entitled to see is!

      Sexuality isn’t evil. If this site gets all social justice-y, I’ll end up back at WiC. Like, I don’t mind you excoriating men for suggesting they want to have sex with a woman, but just don’t start moderating things that make you feel uncomfortable, please.

        Quote  Reply

    69. I think the real issue or fear about the possiblity of Sophie doing nude scenes in not because she is teen. …but it means sansa character as a sex. Scene and sansa fans fear that …

      In. The books we. Have danny and arya doing some things when they are very young

      Yes dany is nearly 17 when the show started. And Sansa is now right at the age of 17 -18

        Quote  Reply

    70. Turncloak,

      Interesting that we could get

      two different “haunted/evil” areas this season: the devastation of Hardhome and the horrors of the Sorrows with the Stone Men.

      So much intriguing stuff for S5….

        Quote  Reply

    71. Fall_Of_Byzantium,
      You would be surprised. Once I heard a band say while they were promoting their album “yeah, it’s ok, but we didn’t actually do the things we really love on this album. It’s better that you wait for the next one. That one will be really good”.

        Quote  Reply

    72. I remember Finn Jones saying there was a scene in the season finale that made him throw the script across the room. That still seems like it could only be “For The Watch” to me, but now I’m getting doubtful.

      Yeah, it sounded like he was shocked about the fate of another character, not Loras. At first I thought it could be something with Bran (his favorite character) but Bran is not in season 5. Could also be Arya going blind, as he is a big Stark fan overall. Or even Cersei’s walk (he has only read the first three books after all).

      And Sansa is now right at the age of 17 -18.

      No, she’s is not or three to four years have passed in the last 12 episodes, which is ridiculous.

        Quote  Reply

    73. zambi76:
      I remember Finn Jones saying there was a scene in the season finale that made him throw the script across the room. That still seems like it could only be “For The Watch” to me, but now I’m getting doubtful.

      Yeah, it sounded like he was shocked about the fate of another character, not Loras. At first I thought it could be something with Bran (his favorite character) but Bran is not in season 5. Could also be Arya going blind, as he is a big Stark fan overall. Or even Cersei’s walk (he has only read the first three books after all).

      I don't know if Jones has only read about his character's fate, but he definitely knows what happens to Loras.

        Quote  Reply

    74. zambi76:
      I remember Finn Jones saying there was a scene in the season finale that made him throw the script across the room. That still seems like it could only be “For The Watch” to me, but now I’m getting doubtful.

      Yeah, it sounded like he was shocked about the fate of another character, not Loras. At first I thought it could be something with Bran (his favorite character) but Bran is not in season 5. Could also be Arya going blind, as he is a big Stark fan overall. Or even Cersei’s walk (he has only read the first three books after all).

      And Sansa is now right at the age of 17 -18.

      No, she’s is not or three to four years have passed in the last 12 episodes, which is ridiculous.

      Then you really don’t have to worry. UK law does not allow *characters* under the legal age of consent to be shown in a sexual light.

        Quote  Reply

    75. I don’t know if Jones has only read about his character’s fate, but he definitely knows what happens to Loras.

      Yep, he read about that in the Wiki and can’t wait for it. Will probably be in vain if his character has to replace Willas for good, though.

        Quote  Reply

    76. So if the battle really is Hardhome and not Winterfell what the hell will Theon and the Boltons do throughout the season? Stannis and co can just stay at the Wall longer, but the Winterfell storyline really has nothing to show us without any castings and without the battle as a climax. Iguess it’s still possible both are in in some fashion, just much less likely…

        Quote  Reply

    77. cubicz,

      I don’t remember anywhere in the TV series, any character saying how old Sansa is, or was when it begun, she certainly doesn’t look like a kid in the series or real life, “just” like a beautiful young woman.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Mod,

      I’m afraid you may have a bad memory then.

      These are just the times I remember off the top of my head: she says she’s 13 in the first episode ever, when Cersei asks her at the feast; and then, in season 3, Tyrion asks her the same during their wedding night, and Sansa says she’s 14 (though, to be fair, she’s probably pretty close to 15, going by the rough timeline that can be established by what other characters have said along the way.)

        Quote  Reply

    79. Luka Nieto: I’m afraid you may have a bad memory then.

      Actually, it is better to state that Mod does not have an excellent memory. I think that the series has mentioned her age twice. Something mentioned twice in four years is easy to miss, and tough to remember even if you caught it the first time.

        Quote  Reply

    80. House Pines: I remember Finn Jones saying there was a scene in the season finale that made him throw the script across the room. That still seems like it could only be “For The Watch” to me, but now I’m getting doubtful.

      Jones probably wouldn’t have the script with FtW in it. In productions like this, the cast members usually only get the scripts for their parts of the production. So, the Kings Landing cast only knows what other cast members, production members, etc., tell them. (They almost certainly know a lot more than we do, but not as much as the people involved with the other sets.)

      So, whatever made Jones or anyone else want to throw his/her script is something in which he would be involve in some way.

        Quote  Reply

    81. mariamb,

      We’ll see what they have time to do I Guess. They’ve been pretty tidy with tying up loose ends so far. Only seem to have been a couple of characters who have been presented and don’t look like they’re going to turn up again so far (Where on earth is the Greatjon?!).

      Wimsey,

      There was a lot of talk of them casting more Wildling leaders but that all went pretty quiet and as far as I know , I don’t think think they announced or anyone was discovered ot be cast as them. I can deal with a road trip to Hardhome as long as the better elements of Jon’s story aren’t cut out because of it and it doesn’t frig up the timeline.

        Quote  Reply

    82. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Greatjon was basically the face of the Northmen Chorus. Only book readers remember him at this point.

      I think that you spot the general rule: any character that gets any screen development has his/her end covered. Right now, Lancel is the one exception: but if I recall, he does not reappear in the books until Crows.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Mod:
      cubicz,

      I don’t remember anywhere in the TV series, any character saying how old Sansa is, or was when it begun, she certainly doesn’t look like a kid in the series or real life, “just” like a beautiful young woman.

      On her wedding night to Tyrion, Sansa clearly tells him she is 14 when he asks how old she is. It’s why Tyrion kept telling his father he wont bed “a child”.

      IF, you count a year passing between seasons, she’s still at most 16- but the show hasn’t indicated it’s been anywhere that long.

        Quote  Reply

    84. cubicz,

      the only time in the show you can get a sense of how much time has passed was when, if I remember correctly, In S2E10 when Joffrey sets Sansa aside and she’s all happy, Littlefinger explains to her that Joffrey has “tormented you for years” & how he doesn’t give away his toys

        Quote  Reply

    85. Wimsey,

      Could see Greatjon returning again if they bring in the Northern Lords potentially replacing Manderly or perhaps also if

      The Last Hearth replaces Skagos as where Rickon is

      . I think he was quite a memorablle and distinctive character for just people who watched the show. Wouldn’t mind him returning at all.

        Quote  Reply

    86. TheTouchOfFrost,

      I don’t remember Greatjon getting any development at all on the show. (Not that he got mugh in the books, either!). I only remember him being a visual spokesperson for the Northmen once or twic. I remember that they had him lose his fingers to Grey Wind, which basically led to all the Northmen submitting to Robb, and I think he was the one to first proclaim Robb King in the North: but that was all classic lead member of the chorus stuff.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Wimsey,

      He wasn’t the deepest of characters but he was great in what he did and brought a bit of warmth and flair (for me anyway) to what could be a pretty mundane role. I see no reason why he couldn’t be a good

      bandleader for Rickon’s Northmen/Wildings

        Quote  Reply

    88. Hodor’s Bastard,

      A bit like the seagull who make mid-air grabs at the bread I’m trying to feed ducks!

      I just want me some Ironborn beach storming. Will forgive how they’ve been neglected so far if they work this into the show!

        Quote  Reply

    89. Brando:
      cubicz,

      the only time in the show you can get a sense of how much time has passed was when, if I remember correctly, In S2E10 when Joffrey sets Sansa aside and she’s all happy, Littlefinger explains to her that Joffrey has “tormented you for years” & how he doesn’t give away his toys

      I think Littlefinger has a habit of stretching the truth a bit…I wouldn’t trust him. There are actually several times in the series where we get hints of time passing. As has been mentioned, Sansa specifically states her age in S1E1 (13), and her age on her wedding night (14), so at the very most, not quite 2 years could have passed. By my best guess (My post earlier in the thread has more detail), Sansa had only known Joffrey for about 18 months at the time Littlefinger said that, and he had only been really tormenting her for about 9 months.

      9 months of dealing with Joffrey’s torments would probably seem like years though, so I’m not surprised she didn’t call Littlefinger on his failure to stick strictly to the truth.

        Quote  Reply

    90. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Yeah, he could. Of course, any loud shaggy guy with a northern UK accent will do! (The less comprehendible, the better probably….) However, my bet is that the TV audience won’t remember Greatjon or any others that might have been continuity extras in particular. They will remember the main characters – if Robb suddenly came back from the dead, then they would remember him – but not the “chorus” types.

      This really emphasizes a big difference between literature and stage/cinema. Literature really struggles to communicate a mass of people: writing “hundreds of faces” does not come close to actually showing hundreds of faces. Writers have to name or describe the people who speak (“a ferret faced man Jim didn’t know” or something like that), just to put labels on them for the readers. However, they never get any development, and it is easy for the reader to get lost in the names/facial features. Moreover X names does not communicate how many people are there. (Most people lose track after just a few, it turns out, and only a small proportion of the people supposedly there are named, anyway.) On stage, TV or movies, you can have a group of undeveloped people just engage in “mob” dialogue, and you understand that they are the concerned citizens. You don’t know their names, but you see their faces, mannerisms and (most importantly!) their moods (a classic book movie swap), and you get a much better feel for how they speak for the crowd; if done right, you get the reactions during their comments, not written afterwards.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Keeping the faith…Drowned God that is! Think they’re an interesting x factor in the story as they’re so unpredictable and it’s a shame they’ve not featured more in the series. The Leeches, YAsha still popping her head up most seasons and Tyrion mentioning Theon’s uncles still gives me a little hope though! I’m thinking Yara and Gendry’s rowing boats must cross paths at some point as they’re both in limbo!

      Wimsey,

      Don’t think you give the viewing public enough credit. Most people have a decent grasp on who is whom. Even if they didn’t pandering to casual fans is daft on many levels as a/ the quality of the show will drop and b/ casual fans joined the show without pandering to them so why should they leave it if you keep giving them what they had before. Think Greatjon was the most distinctive of the Northern Lords and is definately what a lot of people think of when they think of the North. Plus Clive Mantle lost his ear in a hotel bar fight so would really play into his character having picked up some injuries during the war! Manderly would also be a good addition if they went that way as again he’s quite distinctive ( They really should go for Brian Blessed as him). Not sure why the show has made some of the more interesting/quirky characters as bland as they have. The book versions of Missandei, Yezzan, Daario and other minor characters were a lot more interesting as they were more distinctive and memorable. Surely when they are only minor/supporting characters maming the most of making them stand out (not in a way that would detract from the plot or main characters) would be a good idea so that the audience can recognise them more easily?

        Quote  Reply

    92. TheTouchOfFrost: Don’t think you give the viewing public enough credit. Most people have a decent grasp on who is whom

      You give them way too much credit, I think. Remember, you knew who he was already (or you read the books afterwards and retroactively sealed him in your mind). However, people retain the main and supporting characters and that’s about it. (Indeed, for Thrones, that is a LOT of characters!) After all, do you remember bit characters from other TV shows or movies?

      The other issue now is time. Give college seniors a test that was given in their freshman year. You have three groups (people who took the class & majored in that subject, people who took the class & majored in something else, and people who didn’t take the class.) The ones that went on to major in the that subject do as well or better on the test as they did the first time. The ones that didn’t major in it do as poorly as the ones that never took it. We are the majors here: the TV viewers are the normal class-takers. So, minor characters like Greatjon fall out of their memories: even if he’d been a continuity extra in all of the seasons, that’s all he’d’ be.

      As for the book vs. TV/movie differences, the only one that seems that different in the presentation is Daario. However, if they wanted us to understand that the #1 female character was madly infatuated with him, then they couldn’t use a guy with blue hair and a gold tooth! As for Yezzan, we haven’t watched him yet! Obviously, they were not going to waste their money on prosthetics to make him a beached whale. But why bother? That’s the sort of thing that helps liven up the narrative for a book but that is gratuitous on screen.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Wimsey,

      I’m sure if he was introduced the more casual fans would pick up who he is quite easily. Just s simple line like ” Your brothers wolf took my fingers” for those who don’t and they’re back with it. Anyone who doesn’t after that then I’m sorry they’re going to keep watching the show anyway despite not having a good memory. I see no reason to leave a character out just because a segment of the viewership won’t remember them. If they play a role then use them. I can’t see a few people not remembering a character as being a reason they’re going to switch off in their droves! I remember bit characters if they’re reintroduced properly. Not sure why you’re against the extra layers and continuity that using minor characters again brings?
      Again, why does it matter if they remember him. For those who do then great they get a little more out of seeing a character they recognise. For those who don’t then the character still plays the same role.
      The look of Daario wasn’t the thing they got most wrong. He was cock and arrogant with a ton of machismo. They haven’t got anywhere near that with either incarnation of him on the TV show. Plus keeping the blue hair and flamboyant look, only toning it down a bit would have made him a lot more recognisable than every other dark-haired guy with a beard in the show! Sure the guy who plays Yezzan will do a good job but are there no talented fat actors out there? Again, he’s just really generic looking. Having him as a fat slaver not only makes him more distinguishable in that part of the world but it accentuates the differences between the slavers and the slaves. Aging up Missandei was a poor move IMO. The intelligent and strong-willed 10 year old from the books was much more interesting and unique but making her bland, aging her up and giving her a love interest ( a really contrived one at that) was a poor move on the show’s part. Normally defend how D&D use sex in the show but the only reason I can see them aging her up was in order to sexualise her. She’s been an awfully dull TV character and I’m hoping she get’s offed pretty soon!

        Quote  Reply

    94. TheTouchOfFrost: Sure the guy who plays Yezzan will do a good job but are there no talented fat actors out there?

      No, there are not. There is a very strong selective force on actors to stay pretty trim. When actors play “fat,” then they use prosthetics. Bradley-West, for example, has a pretty normal build (although he looks stocky next to the fairly cut actors of the NW). They use some simple prosthetics to make him look so chunky. (Addy also required these things.) To paraphrase the Simpson’s, “Hollywood fat” is like “Hollywood ugly”

      At any rate, they don’t need a fat actor: they need a morbidly obese one to get what Martin describes. There certainly are not any morbidly obese actors out there still in the biz. However, given that the fat isn’t important to the story or even the plot, and given that it’s an unnecessary expense of money and time (getting actors into those things takes a lot of time & effort), why keep it?

      As for Daario, I think that they made a smart choice by toning him down substantially. He works OK in the books (but only OK) where you don’t necessarily imagine his ridiculous beard or his silly gold tooth (I think that I envisioned him as more of an Errol Flynn Robin Hood, myself), but I think that it will be easier to see how Dany falls for a quieter guy who projects an easy self-confidence and a natural swagger. One thing about romantic angles is that you have to make audiences empathize with it: and watching Dany go through a “bad-boy” phase (even if almost every woman I know claims that she did it at one time!) might undermine what she is supposed to contribute to the story in Season 5.

      Ultimately, however, these are all pretty minor characters. They are important to the show only for the circumstances in which they put the main characters. All of them can do (or did) what needed to be done at the time.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Not sure why you’re against the extra layers and continuity that using minor characters again brings?
      Again, why does it matter if they remember him. For those who do then great they get a little more out of seeing a character they recognise. For those who don’t then the character still plays the same role.

      Oh, I have nothing against it: to the contrary, if it doesn’t add to the expenses or involve unnecessary scenes, then it’s a good to do that. However, if it becomes expensive (actors will have other offers and competing schedules), then it’s not worth it. I also object to them taking valuable screen time away from any of the lead or even supporting characters for this: those are the ones important to the story, after all.

      At any rate, this evolved from a suggestion was that Greatjon had loose ends that need to be tied up, or something along those lines. That is true only if the audience remembers him: and I don’t think that they do. Keeping up with all the lead and supporting characters is hard enough! (There are a LOT of them on this show.)

        Quote  Reply

    95. Wimsey,

      Come on now. There’s plenty of bigger actors out there and all it would take would be some sensible choices of outfit/padding and you’re there. Off the top of my head, Omid Djalili would have been perfect casting. Obviously , morbidly obese isn’t practical but a bigger character would add a lot more weight (forgive the pun!) to the role.
      Only thing from the books I found mildly amusing about him was his over the top machismo. The wet version in the show isn’t too exciting for me and I don’t think he’s got an overwhelming amount of fans. In our mind , a more caring, sickeningly amiable character (Oh hi Jorah!) would attract a girl but in a kill or be killed fantasy medieval world Dany is a teenager/young woman who finds the excitment of overt masculinity very attractive ( not my opinion but how it seems from the book) . The only reason I’m not massively annoyed is because Dany’s story as a whole has lost a lot of my interest. So the sooner D-Pit happens the better. As long as they take care of Selmy who , now Jorah is gone and they haven’t done Missandei very well, is the only character in Slaver’s Bay I really give a hoot about!
      Can’t imagine it would be that much money or effort to get Mantle back. Don’t think it’s about tying up loose ends ( although some folks may wonder what happened to him) but it’s a , for some at least, recognisable face of the North to make use of. Surely for people who already have trouble keeping track of all the characters introducing more will only make things worse?!

        Quote  Reply

    96. TheTouchOfFrost:
      Wimsey,
      Sure the guy who plays Yezzan will do a good job but are there no talented fat actors out there?

      I always thought GRRM’s cameo on GoT would be Yezzan, with or without the use of prosthetics. It just seems right that GRRM would be Tyrion’s slaver. But, oh well, I guess GRRM’s cameo this year was scrapped because he is so busy writing… :/

        Quote  Reply

    97. Hodor’s Bastard: I always thought GRRM’s cameo on GoT would be Yezzan

      Please, no! A scrap of latex would probably fall off of his hands into the last computer in the world that still runs WordStar, and we’d never get Winter or Spring….. 😉

      (WordStar actually was a fine program, back when the Police were the best band in the world.)

      TheTouchOfFrost,
      Djalli is solid, but nothing like what Yezzan would be like. He would need just as many prosthetics as a skinny guy (if slightly less massive), and it thus would be just as time consuming and expensive to use him as anyone else. Moreover, what adds weight to the role (and pun forgiven) is face time/screen time. There is a reason why actors count lines: on screen or stage, the amount of face time and dialog is a big indicator to the audience (and future employers) of how important a character is. Yezzan is a very minor character, and giving him too much narrative weight would detract from the lines/time needed for the character(s) he is supporting. He’s there to let GRRM & B&W tell Tyrion’s (and possibly Jorah’s) story, nothing more and nothing less.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Only thing from the books I found mildly amusing about him was his over the top machismo….. The only reason I’m not massively annoyed is because Dany’s story as a whole has lost a lot of my interest.

      Well, what interests or amuses you (or me or any of the dozens of people who post here else here) is separate from and very secondary either to what is important for the story or to what is grabbing the millions of people that watch the series or buy the books as a whole. Daeny is central to the story (she is the single most important character in the series) and Daeny grabs the audience. It is telling that three of the other cast members picked her role as the one that they wish that they could play last year! Heck, people are naming daughters after her. (Poor kids: but I’ve known two women named Arwen, so it’s not a life-ender.) At any rate, I think that TV Daario is perfectly suited to support Daeny’s story this year: I don’t think that the audience will have any problem figuring out what he means. And they accomplish that, then the “wet” version is fine. On the other hand, I suspect that a flamboyant version might actually have interfered with what Daario needs to do on screen.

      As for keeping track of characters, I don’t think that people try to keep track of the Chorus players. We all have seen enough movies and TV shows to recognize that background person who speaks for a crowd: they drift in and out. They aren’t really characters in a sense, and we are conditioned to not keep track of them. (The Greeks discovered this over two millenia ago, and it still works like that today.) At any rate, there are lots of characters like this in TV and movie series that have come and gone without most individuals noting. (I seem to recall Harry Potter fans complaining about that, although I don’t even remember which characters were the ones that drifted out.)

        Quote  Reply

    98. Wimsey,

      You have to admit , he’s a lot more distinctive looking than the guy who is playing him though? If it remains a minor part I’m not too bothered but variety is the spice of life. You can support and still be memorable.
      Obviously so which is why I was careful to use “mys” and “I thinks”! I’d argue Dany grabbed the audiences attention but the viewing and reading audience is starting to become a little interested in her as her story is stagnating a bit in Slavers Bay. I enjoyed the real world parrallels with the Middle East situation and how you can’t just conquer you have to rule too but beyond that it’s all a bit bit meh for me and she needs to start moving on. Daario was adick in the books and he’s different sort of dick in the show so I guess there’s at least some consitentancy!
      ANd the more casual viewers won’t care if it’s a character they recognise or not for the most part but for those who like that kind of detail why not add it in so it works on both levels for both audiences. It’s not as if featuring a reoccuring character will detract from the casual viewers experience and it enhances that of the more avid watcher.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Ghost’s Lunch,

      Well, yes and no. It was the end of Summer in Season 1. But given how long each season can last in Westeros (that is, longer than 1 calendar year), its totally possible that the end of Summer spans multiple seasons of the show. Unless there are other lines referencing it in the show that I’m forgetting about, which is also very possible. But as Wimsey and I were discussing, the show’s timeline is a bit different than the books.

      I think this is a pretty good timeline someone compiled for the books in a google doc, if you’re interested:

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8

      I do agree with you about Winter though. I wouldn’t be surprised if the environment in Westeros looks Winter-y for S6,7.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Lion of Night:
      Ghost’s Lunch,

      Well, yes and no. It was the end of Summer in Season 1. But given how long each season can last in Westeros (that is, longer than 1 calendar year), its totally possible that the end of Summer spans multiple seasons of the show. Unless there are other lines referencing it in the show that I’m forgetting about, which is also very possible. But as Wimsey and I were discussing, the show’s timeline is a bit different than the books.

      I think this is a pretty good timeline someone compiled for the books in a google doc, if you’re interested:

      https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aj_uNZmcJaTddG9BVU5tRnJJTE5KcE5JRkFha1ZfNUE#gid=8

      I do agree with you about Winter though. I wouldn’t be surprised if the environment in Westeros looks Winter-y for S6,7.

      Wow, somebody put a lot of effort into that timeline. It seems to match fairly closely with mine, which isn’t too surprising since there are enough time references in the books to put limits on possible variation.

        Quote  Reply

    101. TheTouchOfFrost: You have to admit , he’s a lot more distinctive looking than the guy who is playing him though?

      Yes and no. Daario would look freakish in our world (outside of the old Punk Rock scene). However, one of the things mentioned throughout the books is that the Tyroshi dye their hair and beards blue, etc., and shape their hair & beards in weird and impractical ways. So, Daario does not look all that distinctive in Essos: you can tell he’s a Tyroshi by looking at him, not that he’s Daario. When in Rome and all of that.

      Again, that is something that works in books that does not work on screen. For the latter, what is bizarre is our idea of bizarre. Unless they inundate us with a bunch of Tyroshi to show us how common place it is, he looks like a freak: and then, of course, Daario becomes just another weird punk rocker in a crowd of punk rockers. That would be a huge waste of time to set up one unimportant aspect of a supporting character, even a very important supporting character.

      Regarding Daeny, I think that what grabs the audience about her is not the conquest, but the crusade. Dany’s not just about conquering or ruling: she is about bringing justice to the slavers and for to slaves. With the exception of a few people who will try to claim she’s really doing it because of tariffs, most people will consider that the “good fight”: and what is intriguing about the “good fight” is that it’s never as simple as you first think it is. If we look beyond Thrones, then it seems that “the good fight” is a recurring motif in the different cable TV series and thus seems to be something that grabs this sort of audience.

        Quote  Reply

    102. In my opinion Benioff & Weiss deviated from the books so much in Season 4 that the TV show has now become a completely separate thing. Season 5 will probably have so much original material written by B&W that will serve to forward the story without having to use too much material from George’s highly convoluted story as told in books 4 & 5. While I detest certain things about B&W’s treatment (like way too much time spent on Cersei) I did like very much the introduction of the Night’s King (if that’s who he was) last season. Therefore I believe the scene Kit Harrington referred to possibly involved the Night’s Watch/Stannis’ army/Tormund’s Wildling army fighting the Others at Hardhome. Something about this bothers me, though. George did not spend much time on Hardhome in the books…it was barely a reference. So my other idea was that Jon’s final scene in Book 5 might take place and may involve Wun Wun going berserk. Because of the CGI effects that would have to be done to show Wun Wun properly, this could have taken a long time. However, because CGI is usually done after the filming, that probably doesn’t make sense. But how about a scene involving Mel burning people? Or Jon and Stannis sending Mance to Winterfell? Jon leading the Wildlings to the Wall? And do you think some of the other castles at the Wall will be shown? So far it’s only been Castle Black. Will Jon send Edd with the spearwives to Long Barrow like in the books? Or will B&W stubbornly insist in cutting out 90% of the Wall and keeping only Castle Black in the picture? Showing some of the other castles along the Wall would certainly involve a lot more filming, though, and they’ve already wasted a hella lotta time on Jon with Ygritte & the Wildlings and a lot of northern scenery in Seasons 2 & 3 so do we really need anymore? Alas, who knows?

        Quote  Reply

    103. jennyofoldstones: While I detest certain things about B&W’s treatment (like way too much time spent on Cersei)

      And yet other posters complain that B&W have failed to develop Cersei as well as GRRM had! All they have done is accelerate Cersei going from an antagonist -> protagonist. (In the books, she doesn’t do that until Crows; in the TV series, they pulled it up to Season 1.) Cersei has more chapters in Crows than any other character, and if you lump Crows+Dragons, then only Jon gets more chapters.

      jennyofoldstones: Alas, who knows?

      We cannot know the specifics, but we can spot the pattern. B&W are focused on GRRM’s stories more than on the specifics of his plots. Season 4 told the same story about conflicted love & hate that Storm told: and bringing Ygritte’s love/hate of Jon up to the forefront only emphasized that. Bringing Cersei up to the forefront a bit more regarding the hateful things that she will do to protect her children also emphasized that. And they set up Cersei very well for next year, too.

      To this end, we cannot “know” but we can bet that this year will focus on the main characters trying to prove to themselves and/or the rest of the world that they are bigger than that. For Jon, that will be his mantra of

      kill the boy/become the man

      : and they can do that on the road to Hardhome as well as anywhere else. Moreover, Hardhome offers the cinematic “oomph” that they need to make this engaging TV. It also offers an opportunity to show the White Walkers again: the audience probably is wondering what is up with them; after all, the book audience certainly is!

        Quote  Reply

    104. Wimsey: For Jon, that will be his mantra of

      kill the boy/become the man

      I am hoping for some amazing & insightful Aemon moments this season.

      I am also prepared to shed a tear for him as well. His death is perhaps the saddest in the entire series.

      “Egg? I dreamed that I was old.”

        Quote  Reply

    105. Wimsey,

      I meant the book Yezzan!
      On Daario though, it’s not so much his look I have issue with (although I think they could have made him look a little more flamboyant without going full book Daario). I think he just doesn’t exude the kind of cockiness and swagger that Darrio should. He should be all bluter and confidence not the sleazy honey-dripper the show has made him!
      The thing is is she looking for ‘justice’ or revenge? If that’s the story they’re trying to tell with her then I don’t think they’re doing a great job with it. Her growing sense of entitlement is getting a little annoying (especially as she bemoans Robert taking her family’s throne when she is doing the exact same thing with her marauding through Slavers Bay) and she’s presented as whiter than white despite making some bad decisions which would have been more harshly presented if it was another character. I guess I just don’t like her as she seems too self-righteous.

      Hodor’s Bastard,

      Hope they deliver the scenes better than the honestly quite disappointing Tyrion/Tywin showdown.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Hodor’s Bastard: I am hoping for some amazing & insightful Aemon moments this season.

      Every season, they’ve had one character basically state the story in one line or passage: I’m betting that it might be Aemon this year.

      TheTouchOfFrost: I meant the book Yezzan!

      Ah, sorry, pronoun trouble! Yes, His Elephant Sealness was supposed to stand out in a way that Daario was not. (Of course, the biggest freaks in his grostequrie were his guests, or so it would appear on modern TV!) However, given that his blubber adds nothing to the plot or story, and given that the money necessary to do it would be better spent on other props and effects (particularly undead things), I just don’t think that it would have been a good thing to Jabbafy him.

      TheTouchOfFrost: The thing is is she looking for ‘justice’ or revenge?

      It’s not an either/or: it’s both. Moreover, it fed in last year’s story quite well: deeds motivated by love/compassion/empathy towards one person or people can be quite hateful towards another person or people. It also fed part of Daeny’s over-arching development: she has to learn that “good” and “evil” are simplistic concepts when applied to people: as Mormont tells her, there are good and evil men on both sides of very conflict.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Her growing sense of entitlement is getting a little annoying (especially as she bemoans Robert taking her family’s throne when she is doing the exact same thing with her marauding through Slavers Bay)

      But that’s not true: insofar as she knows, Robert just took the throne because he wanted it. The truth that she knows is that the “Mad King” is just an invention of Robert, and that Lyanna Stark ran off with her brother. It’s not until Dragons that she learns that these might not be true, or at least that Robert or Ned Stark might have believed differently. Moreover, she is in a world in which family legacy is considered important: and if her ancestors were the kings and queens, then it is her duty to their memories to reclaim the throne.

      Moreover, do not confuse motivation with deed. This is the same difference intelligence vs. wisdom: Daeny is motivated by empathy for the slaves (having been sold and bought herself, and understanding that all such people are the same regardless of the label put on them); she does not, however, know exactly what to do, and she sometimes errs. It’s a learning curve, and we are watching her learn. This isn’t Tolkien: just because Daeny is of royal blood, she’s not born with innate wisdom! However, she does give a damn about people: and the “should I do X or Y” based on that is what Martin and B&W are using for Daeny’s contribution to the overall story.

      (There are very strong parallels here between what Daeny is doing with the slaves and what Jon is going to do

      with the Wildlings

      ; and in both, “self-righteousness” is huge for what Jon & Daeny provide the Crows/Dragons story in Season 6.)

        Quote  Reply

    107. TheTouchOfFrost,

      If it will be, it won’t be in season 5 but in 6. But honestly I’m becoming more and more convinced that’s not going to happen…. they’ll scrap that entire story and have her leave for Westeros in the first episodes of S6. Just a gues…. but if they end it in 7 seasons that’s how they’ll do it.

        Quote  Reply

    108. It’s not Hardhome… They’ll change the course of events. My speculation is that Kit refers to Jon taking Winterfell from Ramsay Snow, and “For The Watch” will happen afterwards, in the beginning of season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Wimsey,

      Still would have preferred someone a bit more memorable than the standard dark-haired guy with a beard!
      She needs to learn quicker and as I mentioned before I think both the books and show are far too kind on her. She can do no wrong and even her mistkaes are put down to circumstancce or naivity. She’s too squeeky clean and protected. Even the other too do-no-wrongs (Jon and Tyrion) have had moments where they have really showed a dark and selfish side that has made people a little less comfortable with them.
      elmy has started telling her and with her new power she should find out the details before galavanting off o a country where absolutely no one (besides a couple of loyalists) seems to be missing Targ rule at all (I canb’t actually think of any characters that have mentioned them fondly throughout all the books in current time (if you know what I mean) actually.
      Again, I don’t expect her to be a paragon of wisdom but her learning and development…well let’s just say I’ve seen continents move quicker. Personally, as a character she’s lost me. I find her frustrating and I think it’s a bad sign when I care more about some of the supporting characters around her than her. Don’t want her to drag anyone else into the quagmire that is the Slaver’s Bay theatre!

      vlad,

      Be a shame if I do as it would make spectacular TV. Would also be silly if they cut that out but force this proposed Hardhome battle in!

        Quote  Reply

    110. Wimsey,

      I agree that the conflicts involving the main characters will have to be the main focus in the seasons to come, driving towards everyone’s endgame. Of course many subplots from the books will have to be trashed in order to get to the end in 2 or 3 more seasons. That’s why I’m so interested in Season 5 because I have no idea where the storylines are going to go. The more I read everyone’s ideas the more excited I become about what is going to happen. I realize that Cersei is a main (and important) character but I cannot stand the woman and I suppose that is because Lena Headey has done such a great job of capturing her evil character. But my beef with B&W is that they seem to be so enamored of the actress that they embellished what was already a huge part considering that some of the other main actors hardly got anywhere near as much time. It’s okay, I get it, and I get that TV is vastly different from books and the show has to keep its audience interested.

      And so the more I think about having Jon travel to Hardhome (with Tormund?) the more I like it a lot. Bringing the Others back into the story at this stage would be awesome for the TV audience. I’m going to keep an open mind for this season and just watch the show like an Unsullied would, with no idea where it’s going to go.

        Quote  Reply

    111. I’m not trying to defend the arya or sophie pervs here but this show does have plenty of nudity. I’m sorry if your “adult childhoods” ever get ruined but it can happen.

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *