Rose Leslie Avoids Season 8 Spoilers from Kit Harington; Sophie Turner Plans for Life After Thrones

LOS ANGELES, CA - JULY 12: Actors Kit Harington and Rose Leslie attend the premiere of HBO's "Game Of Thrones" season 7 at Walt Disney Concert Hall on July 12, 2017 in Los Angeles, California. (Photo by Neilson Barnard/Getty Images)

Rose Leslie and Kit Harington at the Los Angeles premiere of Season 7 of “Game of Thrones.”

You know nothing…Ygritte? It doesn’t quite roll off the tongue — and sounds like the kind of joke that would earn Jon Snow a scowl from his red-haired wildling love — but Rose Leslie (Ygritte) doesn’t want the end of Game of Thrones spoiled for her, even if her fiancé Kit Harington (Jon Snow) is one of the show’s biggest stars. So she’s come up with an ingeniously simple way to avoid them: she leaves the room. Additionally, Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) finds herself planning for a (tissues, please) post-Game of Thrones reality.

“[W]hen he’s at the other end of the room and reading the episode, it’s like, no…we are not going to have eye contact for a long time,” she said in a recent Entertainment Weekly interview. “Go make a cup of tea. Calm down.”

Even after he’s finished reading the scripts, Leslie added, she avoids asking about it, and even tries not to read any emotion in his eyes.

“I for sure ask Kit not to show me his excitement after he has read an episode, simply because I don’t want to read anything in his eyes,” she said. “I know the anticipation is killing a lot of people, and my God, the build-up is fantastic. I can’t wait until next year.”

Us too, Rose. Us too.

Unlike Leslie, Sophie Turner‘s Sansa Stark is (spoilers) still alive as of this writing, and has had her hands busy filming season 8. Of course, with the reality of the end of GoT growing realer by the day, Turner tells Coveteur that she’s in the stages of planning her career’s future:

“There are moments it doesn’t seem final…I had my final costume fitting the other day, and I was like, ‘Bye, guys.’ And they were like, ‘Wait! We might never see you again!’ After ten years, for someone to be like, ‘Hey, we probably won’t see you again,’ it’s really bizarre.”

I mean…when’s the last time you left a job you’ve had for ten years? It must be very surreal. Still, she’s got some strong ideas on what’s next post-Thrones:

“I would love to be a director in the future. My next movie that I’m doing, I’m producing as well. I’ve definitely caught the bug for behind-the-scenes and having that creative control. I’m excited to be something more than just an actress and to be able to make decisions on the character.”

A quick IMDB search suggests this upcoming movie might be Girl Who Fell From the SkyBut by the time she begins working on this project, we will likely be seeing Turner in X-Men: Dark Phoenix, the title and poster for which heavily suggest that Turner will be its main attraction. While we all can’t wait for GoT to return, we certainly can’t wait to support our favorite cast members in their future projects.

51 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Kit Harington (Jon Snow) is one of the star’s biggest shows

      Is that a reference to the #epicboatsex scene? 😛

      I give Rose credit for her restraint. It would be really tough in that position.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Hmmm. Sophie Turner says: “There are moments it doesn’t seem final…I had my final costume fitting the other day, and I was like, ‘Bye, guys.’ ”

      …. While Maisie Williams has been

      busy filming extensive action scenes

      ?

      I wonder if there are any conclusions to be drawn???

        Quote  Reply

    3. Carl,

      “Don’t know how important this information is but Lena’s body double Rebecca Van Cleave has been confirmed to have been filming in Belfast this week. Another Cersei nude scene in season 8?”
      ———————-

      NakedWightCersei?

        Quote  Reply

    4. Carl:
      Ten Bears,

      Maybe the NK makes her his Night’s Queen

      In complete honesty, that ending for Cersei has always been my favorite. Whether she becomes his queen and they are then both eliminated or they are forced back into the Land of Always Winter, I’ve felt like that would be a just and adequate ending for her.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Ten Bears,

      I assumed that quote would get dissected. 🙂 It certainly does raise the eyebrows reading something worded that way. Of course, she’s talking about a fitting for her final outfit… in which she could still have plenty of work to do while wearing…

        Quote  Reply

    6. As much as I found Ygritte incredibly irritating (although her death scene in the book was tragic), I find Rose herself to be quite delightful in interviews I have seen with her (and when Kit plays awful pranks on her, LOL). I’m so glad Jon burned Ygritte, as I think seeing her as a wight would be pretty dang awful.

      *plugs ears about X-Men talk, cuz Famke is my Jean Grey/Phoenix and that’s that*

        Quote  Reply

    7. What would be the point of Sansa’s character was if she were to die in the final season? An entire 7 season character arc was for what then? But I’d say this possibility is there, and might even be greater than 50/50 at this point.

        Quote  Reply

    8. Clob,

      That would be pretty sweet justice given how she is pretty much ignoring the NK threat. I’d still really like to see Jamie do the deed though — there is just such poetry and symmetry in it, and would be a hugely dramatic moment.

      Or maybe it can be both. Jamie kills her and NK finds her body and resurrects her as his Night Queen. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    9. Well it’s the final season and everyone is up for grabs imo but the full context of Sophie’s quote doesn’t really suggest her fate either way.

      It states:

      “I think right now, we have a few months, so a lot of us are getting up in the fact that it’s another day, another day, another day,” she says. “Then people are like, ‘Bye!’ and you kind of get stunted, like, ‘Oh my God, she’s gone!’ And then another day, another day, another day… I think once it starts really wrapping up towards the summer, that’s when it’s going to start getting emotional.”

      This also gives us a timeline for when the show will be wrapped filming. I thought they were soon finished but summer is still a ways away.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Ten Bears,

      I took this to quote to refer to pre-production preparation with costumes being produced for filming. I can’t imagine Sansa having a wealth of outfits to wear (like Dany) and wouldn’t need constant new costumes. I don’t think this quote suggests she’s not filming anymore, just that she has had all her costumes designed. I mean, she still needs to wear them right to film in?

        Quote  Reply

    11. Ten Bears:
      Hmmm. Sophie Turner says: “There are moments it doesn’t seem final…I had my final costume fitting the other day, and I was like, ‘Bye, guys.’ ”

      …. While Maisie Williams has been

      ?

      I wonder if there are any conclusions to be drawn???

      Don’t scare me. 🙁

      I’m pretty confident both Stark girls will survive the series however. Both of them have had nothing but utter misery, pain, and humiliation gone their way, with one of their few “friends” being a traumatized drunkard who’s put dark thoughts in their heads. The other main characters have had glory, joy and even moments of peace, apart from Theon and maybe Jaime.

      The closest thing to joy they have had is brutally murdering people and the show has made it clear that such things are not to be celebrated, no matter how much Ramsay or Walder deserve it. (doesn’t stop me, though)

      Besides, what storyline could either die in? The undead one? Neither of them have any connection or build up to it, all of their build up is to Cersei which will happen at the very end. And Cersei killing either would be too much, both girls know just how evil she is and would be the least likely to die to her now given they are prepared.

      And lastly, this very article points out that Sophie herself has been busy with filming! Masise just happened to mention her’s specifically. I’m pretty sure Sansa will be involved too but probably alongside the likes of Davos, Sam, Bran, Tyrion, Missandei helping in the best way they can.

      #NomoredeadStarksPLS

        Quote  Reply

    12. If I were Rose, I wouldn’t want to know despite burning curiosity. Many of us feel that way, but she knows these characters and certainly these actors. Aware that so many will inevitably meet sad or tragic ends, it makes sense for her to avoid it until it happens, hopefully in a satisfying and poetic ways. BTW, Sophie’s comment IMO just reflected sadness about a season full of farewells. Many of the actors have mentioned the welling nostalgia, but if they’re veterans they’ve at least bid cheerio to many casts and crews. But the kids, especially the Wolflings, grew up on set, came of age among these people and characters, perhaps have not actually known anyone who died. They may be more concerned about solidifying their future careers as well after losing what Maisie calls the ‘security blanket.’ This year will be especially hard on them.

      Pigeon,

      Famke is my favourite too. I think Sophie is too young.

        Quote  Reply

    13. BeardedOnion,

      I agree. Both Stark girls will survive the series. I don’t really see a convincing scenario in which either die that has meaning and purpose for their arcs and does justice to the journey they’ve been on.

      Sansa has only started to have an impact in the story, and Arya is due for a big character shift in S8.

        Quote  Reply

    14. Stark Raven’ Rad: Famke is my favourite too. I think Sophie is too young.

      Famke was great, but she can’t play her younger self, so I watch and see how Sophie make hers fit into Famke’s.
      So Sophie is just right to me.

        Quote  Reply

    15. BeardedOnion,

      1. No way Arya dies. People would be chasing after D&D & GRRM with pitchforks.

      2. Who’s the “traumatized drunkard who’s put dark thoughts in their heads?” Surely you cannot mean the Warrior of Light? (Just kidding.) But Sandor’s gonna make up for all of that. That’s why he’s still around. The gods have plans for Sandor Clegane, as we’ve been repeatedly told.

        Quote  Reply

    16. The only thing that can be positively discerned from this article about Sansa is that at some point in season 8 she will be wearing clothes. I don’t think there’s anything to read into here about her fate.

        Quote  Reply

    17. ash:
      Ten Bears,

      We should have an all time fav GOT quote list; that one would be close to the top for me.

      Yes! That’d be fun! Though for me, it’d have to be favorite quote for each character. There’s no way I could settle on “one quote to rule them all,”

        Quote  Reply

    18. In the battle of Blackwater episode back in season 2 Cersei told Sansa that if she was going to be queen one day she would need to become more hard-headed (paraphrasing) – considering at that stage in the series the story was still more closely following GRRM’s novels* (well admittedly it’s hard to follow books that have as yet to be written) that could be foreshadowing.

      * Apart from substituting Talisa the Terrible for Robb’s book wife.

        Quote  Reply

    19. ”””””””””There are moments it doesn’t seem final…I had my final costume fitting the other day, and I was like, ‘Bye, guys.’ And they were like, ‘Wait! We might never see you again!’ After ten years, for someone to be like, ‘Hey, we probably won’t see you again,’ it’s really bizarre.””””””””””””””””’…………………………………………………………………………………………………… …Sansa finally dies in S8

        Quote  Reply

    20. orange:
      What would be the point of Sansa’s character was if she were to die in the final season? An entire 7 season character arc was for what then?

      I never understood this reasoning. By this reasoning, no character should die next season. What would be the point of Dany’s character if she dies next season after entire seasons of ruling and fighting for Westeros? What would be the point of Jon’s character if he dies next season? What would be the point of Arya’s or Tyrion’s or Bran’s?

      Sansa does not have any special plot armor for next season. She is as vulnerable to death as all the other characters. Especially as show Sansa’s story is drastically different to the book version and next season, we will be getting the book endings for the main characters.

        Quote  Reply

    21. “… we will be getting the book endings for the main characters.”

      I wonder, if this is assured? *don’t really know*
      What about GGRM and D&D plan an other ending for the show than the books shall lead to?
      Why not?
      Could be a reason for people to buy and read the last two (?) books, which hopefully will be written one day. There is no much fun reading very thick books, You for several years have waited for, if You already for several years know, how the story will end…

        Quote  Reply

    22. cos alpha:
      “… we will be getting the book endings for the main characters.”
      I wonder, if this is assured? *don’t really know*

      I have wondered about this.
      GRRM seems to be unable to get anything out to finish the series.
      I would not surprise me at all to find out that D & D have taken over the story direction. “Hollywood” has never been shy about re-writing stories for better screen action.
      D & D could well be saying something like. ” We are making the money and we will finish the story our way. You do whatever you want with the books.”
      Conspiracy theorists might sat that the books have been delayed so as to not spoil the TV story. (Along with it’s audience figures.)

        Quote  Reply

    23. cos alpha,

      I have wondered about this as well. D&D have said in the past that they will reach the same ending as the books (I think that was around 2 years ago?). I am not exactly sure they will stick to that though, and that may be the reason for some of the character decisions they have made, idk.
      One example is Jon Snow in the books, has an entire book dedicated to a “learning to rule” arc, which will probably extend to his stint as king in the north as well. Yet D&D have entirely cut this huge part of his book arc from the show. Sansa on the other hand doesn’t have a ruling arc in the books, yet she gets one on the show. I wonder if this was a deliberate decision that they took keeping in mind the end game they want for the show, which might well differ from what GRRM has in mind. I don’t think D&D are stupid enough to not realize that they really haven’t done a good job of showing Jon as a deserving ruler for Westeros, and this might be the reason why they changed his character from a more politically minded one to a sword swinging warrior? Idk.
      Of course, considering that the books will most probably never be finished, we might never actually know if D&D did go with GRRM’s ending or not.

        Quote  Reply

    24. ghost of winterfell:
      cos alpha,
      I don’t think D&D are stupid enough to not realize that they really haven’t done a good job of showing Jon as a deserving ruler for Westeros, and this might be the reason why they changed his character from a more politically minded one to a sword swinging warrior? Idk.

      Unfortunately, they are stupid enough to not realize that. If the writing for last season tells us anything, it’s that D and D are terrible writers. Even the actors and directors did not know what was going on in the Winterfell plot last season and the director for the wight hunt episode admitted that they no longer care about logical story telling because the show audience is large and they watch anyway.

      I don’t know if they will go with the book endings or with their own endings. But if they do go with the book endings, I think the show only watchers will be surprised by which character ends up where.

        Quote  Reply

    25. One character that stands out for me is Lord Beric Dondarrion.

      As far as we know in the books he is dead.
      In the TV series he is shown as an important end game character with the blessing of the Lord of Light.
      Unless he just ends up dead after the attack on the Wall he seems to be a character with a possibility of harming the Night King.
      Beric stated that they do not have to kill all the dead, “just him.”

      This again makes me think D&D are now Cannon, GRRM can do his own thing at some time AFTER the TV series airs.

        Quote  Reply

    26. It may be in agreement between GGRM and D&D to come to different book/show endings, so both showwatchers and bookreaders have reason enough to read book and watch show, too – and generate money and fan excitement… ;o)
      I like the idea of different endings!

        Quote  Reply

    27. SerNoName,

      I wasn’t a fan of the writing the past couple of seasons either. Still, this seems like such a big misstep, if Jon is supposed to be the endgame ruler. A lot of the show only fans think Jon would make a terrible ruler, can’t really blame them for that. And they could have easily made a difference by writing in just a couple of scenes in somewhere. I mean, a lot of people seem convinced on Sansa’s administrative abilities based on just a couple of scenes in season 7, where she suggests sewing leather on armor and thinking of stocking for provisions. Something similar could have been done for Jon. Yet they seem to have deliberately gone the other direction with him, by making him so morally rigid, without care for consequences . The same Jon who lied to Ygritte, the girl he loved, and Mance, for months together, is now too honorable to lie to Cersei. I can’t help but wonder if the writers want us to think that show Jon, unlike book Jon, isn’t cut out for politics lol.

      But if they do go with the book endings, I think the show only watchers will be surprised by which character ends up where.

      I think this would be true especially for Jon, Tyrion and maybe Sansa.

        Quote  Reply

    28. SerNoName: I never understood this reasoning. By this reasoning, no character should die next season. What would be the point of Dany’s character if she dies next season after entire seasons of ruling and fighting for Westeros? What would be the point of Jon’s character if he dies next season? What would be the point of Arya’s or Tyrion’s or Bran’s?

      If Jon and/or Dany die next season, it will be after they have saved (or in the process of saving) Westeros. Jon’s whole story has been about protecting and fighting for the North and Westeros. At whatever the cost, “no matter the odds”. And he can’t do it without Dany. Both will be of paramount importance in this effort. It was supposedly said by GRRM that one of the central points of the story is to bring these two together.

      Once the War for the Dawn is won, however, there is the question of who rules Westeros. Both have a claim to the throne (with Sansa as a potential wildcard), so either of their deaths will have a huge impact on how the story ends. Jon has definitely been built up as the kind of character who would sacrifice himself for his people, and Dany also admitted “..what kind of Queen would I be if I didn’t risk my life for my people?” So there is certainly meaning and purpose in either of their deaths and their arcs should it happen.

      It’s still going to be a really tough pill to swallow though.. (Jon and The Hound are my second favourite characters after Arya, and I like Dany a lot too).

        Quote  Reply

    29. Ten Bears,

      She said she had her final costume fitting, not her final filming. She later in the interview says: I think once it starts really wrapping up towards the summer, that’s when it’s going to start getting emotional.”

      Also Arya will probably be in a lot of fighting scenes so she’ll be filming a lot more because those just take a lot longer to film whereas Sansa scenes don’t. In previous seasons Sophie wasn’t seen filming a lot either but she’s the character with the 4th most minutes.

        Quote  Reply

    30. SerNoName,

      Sansa is the one character I’m 100% certain of that she’s not dying. They specifically have her positioned as Lady of Winterfell with Bran giving up the title that’s legitimately his. Logically speaking, he’d be the one to get the title when he returns to Winterfell but they already had him give up his title cause they couldn’t be bothered dealing with that transition for when Bran leaves after the war(to join the hivemind/weirdwoodnetwork) or possibly dies. Arya’s path was already set out as well with her “what’s west of westeros” comment and her meeting with Nymeria was basically Arya talking to herself. Searching for home but finding out that home doesn’t fit anymore. I think at least one Stark will die (and I’m including Jon as a Stark here)

      Characters that have a big chance of dying out of the mains: Jon, the Lannister siblings, Dany. I think one of Jon or Dany dies but wouldn’t rule out both dying either. Same for the Lannisters I think max 1 will survive or they’ll all die. I think it’s very likely that Dany will die within reach from the throne as her House of the Undying vision showed. For the others, I don’t really have a prediction cause there are so many variables. Especially since they didn’t include the Valonqar prophecy if I recall correctly so they could have anyone kill Cersei at this point for dramatic effect.

      For the supporting cast it really could be anyone cause I don’t think grrm would have an extensive outline of their endgame so D&D have more freedom to kill characters off depending on what fits their story but I do believe that the endgame for the major characters will be the same as in the books, this has been stated before as well: same endgame but different paths to getting there.

        Quote  Reply

    31. ghost of winterfell:
      SerNoName,

      I wasn’t a fan of the writing the past couple of seasons either. Still, this seems like such a big misstep, if Jon is supposed to be the endgame ruler. A lot of the show only fans think Jon would make a terrible ruler, can’t really blame them for that. And they could have easily made a difference by writing in just a couple of scenes in somewhere. I mean, a lot of people seem convinced on Sansa’s administrative abilities based on just a couple of scenes in season 7, where she suggests sewing leather on armor and thinking of stocking for provisions. Something similar could have been done for Jon. Yet they seem to have deliberately gone the other direction with him, by making him so morally rigid, without care for consequences . The same Jon who lied to Ygritte, the girl he loved, and Mance, for months together, is now too honorable to lie to Cersei. I can’t help but wonder if the writers want us to think that show Jon, unlike book Jon, isn’t cut out for politics lol.

      But if they do go with the book endings, I think the show only watchers will be surprised by which character ends up where.

      I think this would be true especially for Jon, Tyrion and maybe Sansa.

      Are we talking about the same Book Jon who got stabbed to death by his own people? 🙂

      I think GRRM point about ruling is almost NO ONE is good at it. The closest we have to good rulers are Tywin and Ned, two guys who’s families went to complete shit when they died. The show carries that theme well, Tommen was a good man, good morals and loved his people but he turned out to be an utterly shit king. I mean the theme is really bang on too, name me 3 popular, well-loved successful leaders TODAY and you’ll be hard-pressed to find any who isn’t a dictator with a cult of personality.

      Ruling over anyone is a bitch. Ruling over murderers, egomaniacs, psychopaths and arse lickers will lead you to an early grave.

        Quote  Reply

    32. :

      Sansa is definitely someone I see surviving the series.

      I do have a different interpretation of the show!House of the Undying vision, though. For me, what we see is Daenerys coming to Westeros in winter, seeing the Iron Throne within her grasp and then choosing not to take it, but to go north of the Wall. Beyond the Wall, she leaves one of her children (Rhaego/Viserion) and the man she loves (Drogo/Jon – though, obviously, Jon was able to make his own way back unlike Drogo).

        Quote  Reply

    33. SerNoName,

      By this reasoning, no character should die next season. What would be the point of Dany’s character if she dies next season after entire seasons of ruling and fighting for Westeros? What would be the point of Jon’s character if he dies next season? What would be the point of Arya’s or Tyrion’s or Bran’s? Sansa does not have any special plot armor for next season. She is as vulnerable to death as all the other characters. Especially as show Sansa’s story is drastically different to the book version and next season, we will be getting the book endings for the main characters.

      Overall, I agree. No one is exempt. Perhaps one difference is that Sansa’s arc is not tied to the Great War but the Thrones war. If the others die, they will have fulfilled much of their purpose–defeating the AotD. Sansa’s problem is that she has to survive the Great War dependent on others and the safety of Winterfell. That’s a fragile defense, which means she’s uniquely vulnerable, especially if that’s the Golden Company attacking. They probably have Cersei’s Wanted Dead or Alive order for her. And D&D and GRRM have consistently said show and books will share an overall ending. Some posters in this thread infer that since GRRM won’t/can’t finish the books, D&D will make their own ending. I think not. If GRRM hears time’s winged chariot of mortality, he’d probably insist they fulfill their early pledge. That way the story will still be his. You also wrote:

      “Even the actors and directors did not know what was going on in the Winterfell plot last season” True for the actors probably; they take direction and may not be told subtextual motivations. But the directors almost surely had to know so the events of the episode would coordinate with other episodes and overall narrative.

      ,

      I also don’t think Sansa will die, but IMO her survival chances are far less than 100%, in part for the reason I mention above. It doesn’t help that she lost her Wolf and was never one of the Five to Survive. But narratively…Winterfell will burn and then what? If she survives, she’ll be dragged from pillar to post having to be protected by any fighter who can be spared. She might instead be captured by the GC and taken to Cersei . Saving Sansa is one of the most often proposed rationales for Jon apparently bending the knee to Cersei in the Dubrovnik photos. Funnily enough, it would parallel Ned cooperating with Cersei by confessing to save Sansa. Only SAm is 99% guaranteed to survive. He was interested in Maester Ebrose’s history, and will probably eventually be the GRRM stand-in for writing A Song of Ice and Fire.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Sansa is ” uniquely vulnerable, especially if that’s the Golden Company attacking. They probably have Cersei’s Wanted Dead or Alive order for her….. She might instead be captured by the GC and taken to Cersei . Saving Sansa is one of the most often proposed rationales for Jon….
      ————————-

      Hold that thought. It coincides with some of the reasons Jon Snow is trending upward in my Tinfoil Valonqar Sweepstakes this month.
      From out of nowhere as a 100-1 longshot, he is now poised to be mentioned amongst the top candidates. Details to proceed.

        Quote  Reply

    35. ghost of winterfell:
      SerNoName,

      I wasn’t a fan of the writing the past couple of seasons either. Still, this seems like such a big misstep, if Jon is supposed to be the endgame ruler. A lot of the show only fans think Jon would make a terrible ruler, can’t really blame them for that. And they could have easily made a difference by writing in just a couple of scenes in somewhere. I mean, a lot of people seem convinced on Sansa’s administrative abilities based on just a couple of scenes in season 7, where she suggests sewing leather on armor and thinking of stocking for provisions. Something similar could have been done for Jon. Yet they seem to have deliberately gone the other direction with him, by making him so morally rigid, without care for consequences . The same Jon who lied to Ygritte, the girl he loved, and Mance, for months together, is now too honorable to lie to Cersei. I can’t help but wonder if the writers want us to think that show Jon, unlike book Jon, isn’t cut out for politics lol.

      For some reason, my comments are not getting mod approved and going through. I will try once more, but if it’s not, then I don’t want to waste my time commenting.

      See, I do think that they have written scenes for Jon showing him ruling and being good at it. We start off the season, with Jon setting women and children to train and sending wildlings off to man the wall (Parts of his ADwD book arc). He then does the right thing in not blaming the children for the sins of their father and has them affirm their oaths to house Stark. He then rightly decides that they need allies and weapons to fight the great war and goes south to negotiate – he wins the support of the dragon queen, two dragons, her huge armies and lots of dragon glass weapons.

      How does Sansa getting two contrived lines about grain and armor make her a better ruler than Jon who did all of the above? Why does the character who is all about consolidating power for herself better than the character looking out for the greater good?

      It’s just that fandom, namely the Sansa fandom and this website talks as if Jon is an idiot who needs handholding and advice from Sansa to do anything. Jon does fine by himself.

      Tyrion is the one that came with the wight hunt plan, but for some reason Jon gets blamed for it and called a fool.

      As for lying to Cersei, I thought Jon was being the best leader and politician there by realizing that as a leader one has to stick to their words, oaths and deals. As Liam Cunningham put it:

      That speech that Jon Snow gave about the nature of lies and what’s been said, and what happens if we don’t stick to our word — we filmed that on exactly the day that a certain POTUS was elected and it had incredible resonance while we were filming it.

      Jon is the only honest politician in Westeros. And that’s important in a place like Westeros.

      Enharmony1625: If Jon and/or Dany die next season, it will be after they have saved (or in the process of saving) Westeros. Jon’s whole story has been about protecting and fighting for the North and Westeros. At whatever the cost, “no matter the odds”. And he can’t do it without Dany. Both will be of paramount importance in this effort. It was supposedly said by GRRM that one of the central points of the story is to bring these two together.

      See, the same thing can be said about Sansa. Sansa’s whole story has been about LF and then Winterfell. LF is dead and now Arya, Bran and Jon are back to protect Winterfell. Sansa could die trying to protect Winterfell and it could be that Arya and Bran will have to take over.

      BeardedOnion: Are we talking about the same Book Jon who got stabbed to death by his own people? 🙂

      I think GRRM point about ruling is almost NO ONE is good at it. The closest we have to good rulers are Tywin and Ned, two guys who’s families went to complete shit when they died.

      Hey, at least Jon actually lead over 12 chapters where he successfully negotiated with the Iron bank for food, negotiated with Wildlings, experiments on wights, plans Stannis’ entire Northern campaign, allies the North with the Wildlings using Alys’ marriage, arrests Karstark for treason, mans the walls with extra men and spearwives, sets people to train. Not being able to convince some stupid bigots, despite constantly explaining to them about the advantages of having wildlings this side of the wall is not a huge mark against him.

      And if we are talking books, what is Sansa upto while Jon is actually leading the Watch? Trying to get Sweet Robin to eat his dinner. I like how Sansa fans criticize Jon and Dany for their decisions while ruling, while Sansa is still being led by the nose by LF and busy poisoning her little cousin on LF’s say so.

      And GRRM’s point about ruling is not that no one is good at it. It’s that ruling is hard and people make mistakes even if they have the best intentions. That’s why Jon and Dany are learning the hard way about how to lead and rule. They make mistakes and learn from those mistakes – they make course corrections.

      Sansa has yet to make a single decision that affects large number of people in the books. I doubt she is going to be ruling any time soon.

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    36. BeardedOnion: Are we talking about the same Book Jon who got stabbed to death by his own people? 🙂

      I think GRRM point about ruling is almost NO ONE is good at it.

      Book Jon, just like every other character, made mistakes, for which he had to pay. I never said he was perfect. Ruling is hard. Even the best of them (including Tywin) make mistakes and in a ruthless world like Westeros, they often pay with their lives. That doesn’t take away the fact that he showed genuine aptitude and inclination towards politics and administration.
      I agree with SerNoName about what GRRM’s message about ruling is.

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    37. SerNoName,

      I think the problem was with how Jon conveyed his decisions. Unilaterally announcing his decisions in front of his Lords without consulting his council first was what was criticised.

      Tyrion is the one that came with the wight hunt plan, but for some reason Jon gets blamed for it and called a fool.

      Tyrion should be blamed for coming up with the ridiculous plan. But to be fair, he never intended for Jon to go on this mission. He expected to send some red shirts, (maybe some Wildlings at Eastwatch), but it was Jon who insisted on going himself, against everyone’s advice. He went on this mission with seemingly no fore planning whatsoever, and then called for Dany’s help, whom Tyrion also tried to dissuade going to help. It wasn’t all Tyrion’s fault, he never intended for either Jon, Dany or her dragons to end up beyond the Wall. The writing failed both Jon and Tyrion, all to gift the NK with a dragon.

      As for lying to Cersei, I thought Jon was being the best leader and politician there by realizing that as a leader one has to stick to their words, oaths and deals

      I am not sure any extreme is good tbh. Obviously an honest leader is better than a dishonest, selfish one, mostly intent on furthering his own interests. But if he is to rule, imo he will need to be more ready to bend his absolute moralistic outlook. It isn’t for nothing that Tyrion, Dany and Jaime were all irritated with his actions. In this case of course, it ultimately didn’t make any difference, since Cersei was always going to betray them, but in another situation, it might.

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    38. Alba Stark,

      There’s really nothing to suggest that the vision has already come true and, imo, would be extremely anti-climactic if that was it.
      At that point, the throne isn’t within her grasp. In the house of the undying, we see the throne room destroyed which at this point it isn’t yet but will more likely occur next season and many have speculated the “snow” falling through the roof might instead be ashes, very likely coming from a burning KL which has been foreshadowed many times. Either way, the throne room isn’t destroyed yet.

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    39. SerNoName:
      See, the same thing can be said about Sansa. Sansa’s whole story has been about LF and then Winterfell. LF is dead and now Arya, Bran and Jon are back to protect Winterfell. Sansa could die trying to protect Winterfell and it could be that Arya and Bran will have to take over.

      Well, there is some evidence to support that idea as a possibility. In terms of Sansa though, I’ve always seen her story as being about her learning harsh truths about the nature of the world, and becoming a “player”. LF has been an important part of the latter, but only since season 4. At that point, I felt that LF started to shift from being a major influence on the story to being a supporting character to Sansa, setting him up as a necessary obstacle that Sansa had to overcome in order to herself rise. So LF and retaking Winterfell feel more like stepping stones in her arc to me.

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    40. My main insight from this is that the actors were allowed to take the S8 scripts home, in contrast to some of the rhetoric of increased security measures and scripts locked down to filming locations only.

      I do agree with Rose though and I am glad there are no real spoilers out there at the moment (other than a few set photos which require a lot of guess work as to what is happening). This is the climax to an epic story so I hope the secrecy can be maintained for the final few months of filming.

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    41. Ten Bears:
      Hmmm. Sophie Turner says: “There are moments it doesn’t seem final…I had my final costume fitting the other day, and I was like, ‘Bye, guys.’ ”

      …. While Maisie Williams has been

      ?

      I wonder if there are any conclusions to be drawn???

      Yes, I picked up on that too, do we assume Sophie is nearing the end of her filming now? I certainly cannot imagine Sansa shooting extensive scenes for any battle but it’s possible that she may die ( although I still suspect unlikely).

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    42. cos alpha: I wonder, if this is assured? *don’t really know*
      What about GGRM and D&D plan an other ending for the show than the books shall lead to?
      Why not?
      Could be a reason for people to buy and read the last two (?) books, which hopefully will be written one day. There is no much fun reading very thick books, You for several years have w

      This is a pretty much a given. I know some book readers want to discount this but pretty much every statement from D&D and GRRM have suggested we are heading for the same ending just some of the paths to get there may differ. D&D have all the main plot points (Shireen, Jon becoming King in the North, etc) and some twists from GRRM, I’m sure there will be differences between Winds and S6 but for sure the main plot points are there. I suspect for S7 this is more more down to D&D.

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    43. Colin Armfield:
      One character that stands out for me is Lord Beric Dondarrion.

      As far as we know in the books he is dead.
      In the TV series he is shown as an important end game character with the blessing of the Lord of Light.
      Unless he just ends up dead after the attack on the Wall he seems to be a character with a possibility of harming the Night King.
      Beric stated that they do not have to kill all the dead,“just him.”

      This again makes me think D&D are now Cannon, GRRM can do his own thing at some time AFTER the TV series airs.

      I don’t think this is strictly true, although they have tried to avoid the subject I suspect they have instead given elements of the Lady Stoneheart character to Beric. Neither of which are important characters in the book or show, at least in my opinion.

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