Podcast reveals new info about Game of Thrones disastrous unaired pilot

Scriptnotes, a weekly podcast hosted by screenwriter John August had showrunners Dan Weiss and David Benioff on as guests with another screenwriter by the name of Craig Mazin.  Mazin apparently advised them on the pilot that Benioff and Weiss originally showed HBO.  Uproxx culled the relevant quotes, if you don’t want to listen to the whole podcast.

More after the jump!

John August, who is the screenwriter of “Go”, “Big Fish”, and several other Tim Burton projects discusses screenwriting every Tuesday on his podcast, Scriptnotes.  Yesterday’s episode included Dan Weiss and David Benioff, Game of Thrones Executive Producers, and Craig Mazin, a friend of Weiss and Benioff and the screenwriter of “The Hangover” sequels and “Identity Thief”.

Mazin was asked to view the original pilot that took Benioff and Weiss four years to develop, write and shoot.  And Mazin had some interesting things to say.  According to Benioff,

As soon as it finished, Craig said, ‘You guys have a MASSIVE PROBLEM.’

Mazin couldn’t even give them tips on what to change.  He basically said redo everything, so that’s what Benioff and Weiss did, reshooting 90-92% of it.  They cut out the death of Jon Arryn, replaced the orginal actress playing Dany, and a ton of other changes.

Reinvited to see the premeire episode, Mazin said,

I sat there and this show unfolds and I am stunned. STUNNED,” Mazin said. “And I very specifically remember walking out and I said to [Weiss and Benioff], ‘That is the biggest rescue in Hollywood history.’ Because it wasn’t just that they had saved something bad and turned it really good. You had saved a complete piece of sh*t and turned it into something brilliant. That never happens!

There’s other tidbits in the Uproxx article and a short video to accompany it. All I have to say is thank goodness they pulled it off, right?

463 responses

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    1. What Mazin said was true. If a shot pilot is complete shit, then it’s usually a done deal. Especially a pilot for a show as expensive as GOT. The fact that they were able to basically reshoot the whole thing and have it turn out so amazing is beyond impressive.

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    2. I doubt we’ll ever see it unfortunately but I am intrigued about a) Tamzin Merchant as Daeny (I get the feeling it didn’t work well) and b) Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn (I have a feeling she would have been brilliant).

      Anyway the fact that HBO funded them to re-shoot it almost entirely is a miracle in itself and they should be given credit for that.

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    3. You had saved a complete piece of sh*t

      No need to hold back, say what you really think 😉

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    4. Ross:
      I doubt we’ll ever see it unfortunately but I am intrigued about a) Tamzin Merchant as Daeny (I get the feeling it didn’t work well) and b) Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn (I have a feeling she would have been brilliant).

      Agreed! I would especially love to see Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn. Even apart from what a great actress she is (I love her in BBC’s Pride and Prejudice), just look at how close her appearance is to Sophie Turner’s.

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    5. Jack Bauer 24,

      She was awful in the Tudors,that’s the only place i know her from and i’m thankfull she didn’t play Dany. No matter what people say about Emillia Clarke,Merchant would have been 10 times worse .

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    6. Sometimes I think show producers/creators/directors/actors are living in this echo chamber where everyone tells them how wonderful everything is. That’s why we get total shit movies like, showing my age, Ishtar.

      I’m glad that D&D have someone who will say to them, “This is shit, redo it.” Now that might not be going on to the same level it had been in the beginning, but people who point out the flaws in an honest way are important to producing good work.

      Showrunners/actors/etc need this. Just the same way George needs an editor.

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    7. I remember D&D talking about reaction to the initial pilot a few years back, and how abysmal it was, and it REALLY is kind of mind-boggling that something could be that across the board terrible. Lol.

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    8. Pigeon,

      Didn’t Phil aka Winter is Coming watch the original pilot or maybe i misremember something ? If he did maybe he would be willing to share what he thought of it with us .

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    9. Tyrion the Myrion,

      IIRC he wrote a review about it which should still be online (maybe in the archives of WiC).

      Also I seem to remember to have read the script of the unaired pilot last year. Don’t remember who posted about it, but it too should be found online.

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    10. Tamzin was supposed to be vapid and clueless in The Tudors and she did it well. I’ve not seen her in anything else to know if she has range. Not that Emilia is my favorite; she’s certainly not. I think she’s mostly terrible. She does better with better supporting cast. She struggles carrying a scene though.

      I am curious about Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn. I thought Michelle Fairley was fabulous, but I’d still like to see it.

      Did they do any major recasting of the male parts? I don’t remember. I mean, it’s not like the originally had Zac Efron as Jon Snow 😉

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    11. I don’t recall seeing the actresses from pilot in anything else.
      I would love to see the pilot also. Just to compare.

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    12. That didn’t really tell us anything except that one person thought it was shit. I find it hard to believe that Tom McCarthy could direct something that bad, he’s not Tommy Wiseau.

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    13. HotPinkLipstick,

      OMG, that’s brilliant! Any time I am unhappy with an actor cast to play a particular part, I’ll remember your wise words: “At least Zac Efron didn’t play Jon Snow!” Little chance this will ever happen with GOT (“In Nina Gold we trust”), but there will be other films and TV shows.

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    14. Al Swearengen,

      No matter how good a director you are, if the script stinks you’re not going to produce something that good. And in this case it does seem that the script was perhaps the greatest problem (although granted there were probably other issues as well).

      It’s a shame though that McCarthy hasn’t returned to do any television directing since the failed pilot. He’s a fantastic director, and it’s a shame that Game of Thrones will never showcase his work.

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    15. I’d heard the “massive problem” anecdote before–it’s in the cute Royal Tenenbaums-esque featurette they did a few seasons ago narrated by Charles Dance–but I’d never heard that it was Craig Mazin who told them that they had a massive problem.

      In Season 5, I believe a “Lord Mazin” is mentioned among the Northern lords Jon is asking for NW recruits. I’m guessing this was to honour Craig.

      I doubt that the directing was a big problem with the pilot. Tom McCarthy in my opinion always does excellent, unobtrusive work. (Spotlight is a masterpiece.) I’m guessing that the problems involved casting and writing. Jennifer Ehle bowed out because she felt she was missing too much time with her baby (understandable), but it sounds as if Tamzin Merchant did not leave the production of her own accord. Maybe Merchant’s Dany was part of the problem.

      I don’t think the show suffered at all for losing Jennifer Ehle. She’s a fine actress, but I think her Catelyn would have been too chilly and remote for the show, even if her Catelyn would have been closer to the book version.

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    16. Jack Bauer 24,

      I watched season 1 of Salem and every time she came on screen I thought, “I’m so glad she’s NOT playing Daenerys”. I didn’t think that her acting was strong enough. I think Emilia Clarke has done well in some scenes and not so well in others. Some of those bad scenes can be attributed to writing, however.

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    17. Yeah, “complete piece of shit” seems unfair to McCarthy, though D&D don’t say that. I watched an 30 min interview with him about Spotlight recently in a vain hope the conversation might meander to Game of Thrones. I think McCarthy has said some polite things about GoT in public, I don’t remember.

      The show was still considered too exposition heavy in the outset by some. In the flood of info, people sometimes still miss that Jaime and Cersei are siblings. I wonder if the pilot was really that bad. I wouldn’t have a problem with it being more confusing and odd.

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    18. HotPinkLipstick:
      Tamzin was supposed to be vapid and clueless in The Tudors and she did it well. I’ve not seen her in anything else to know if she has range. Not that Emilia is my favorite; she’s certainly not. I think she’s mostly terrible. She does better with better supporting cast. She struggles carrying a scene though.

      I would like to see the pilot, but somehow based on Tamzin’s previous work I’m not convinced that she could do a better job than Emilia.

      I agree and disagree. Emilia can carry a scene on her own and especially in High Valyrian. Her scenes are among my favourites and 3×04 earned her Emmy nomination. In other scenes not so much and it’s just like with Kit. One of the reasons, why I’m not looking forward to them acting together, because it could turn into abosolute boredom quite easily.They’re not bad, but not amazing either. They do really shine with a good cast around them and espcially Kit. But they are far too inconsistent. While i love Daeny/Tyrion or Jon/Stannis scenes, the difference in class is visible and the years of acting.

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    19. HotPinkLipstick: Sometimes I think show producers/creators/directors/actors are living in this echo chamber where everyone tells them how wonderful everything is.

      Ha, you you’re probably right – made me think of “Episodes” 🙂

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    20. Does anyone know why the original Cat was replaced? Was she bad and the producers fired her or she just didn’t want to do the show anymore?

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    21. I don’t regret that Tamzin was replaced. There is a divide between viewers on Emilia but I’ll assume there would have been on Tamzin as well. I personally like Emilia and also think she does the languages very well. I believe some of her strongest dialog is when she’s speaking Valyrian. Would someone else have done it as well? I also see Tamzin as probably a little cliche princess looking and may have looked odd in the white wig. jmo

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    22. As Emilia Clarke has said, she was surprised when she was cast, since the casting people seemed to have been looking for someone tall, slender and fair (like Merchant), as opposed to someone who was “short and brown and round,” as Emilia describes herself. She must have had something that led the casting people to ditch their physical requirements. Compared to Tamzin Merchant, who has wide-set eyes and angular features, she has less of an alien look. Emilia Clarke’s beauty is that of a girl next door, albeit an incredibly beautiful one. Maybe she seemed more accessible than Merchant.

      The other thing that Emilia Clarke has that I think Merchant didn’t have is raw charisma. Her acting might be flawed, but she definitely holds the viewer’s attention. There’s a reason why “Khaleesi” seems to be the only character people otherwise unfamiliar with GOT know about.

      On Jennifer Ehle’s Cat being replaced: Jennifer Ehle bowed out because she wanted to spend more time with her baby. She was doing a lot of other projects at the time and felt guilty about missing her baby. At least, that’s her version of events. I think that that’s what happened, since I think the search for Fairley was a bit of a scramble. (She was cast because either one of D&D or one of the casting people had seen her as Emilia in that famous production of Othello with Ejiofor in the lead role and Ewan McGregor, I think, as Iago.)

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    23. A good TV pilot needs to pull the viewer in while still explaining enough so that you know who is who, where they are and what they are doing.

      With the huge number of characters there are in the series, it had to be difficult for them to create something where each character was indentifiable and didn’t blend into one another.

      Even now, I know casual GoT watchers who say things like, “Dany’s husband” and I respond, “Drogo, he’s dead” and they say, “No, the other one, older guy, bald” and I say, “Jorah, he’s her advisor.”

      My favorite casual fan discussion went, “Oh I like that hot guy with the sword,” “You mean Robb? Jon Snow? Jaime?”, “No none of those, the Kingslayer and his wife”, “The Kingslayer is Jaime and that’s his sister, he’s not allowed to marry” followed by, “Well, he took a naked bath with her, I thought they got married.”

      And these are people who have watched every episode and talk about it every Monday morning.

      I saw S1 before I read the books and had to watch the pilot twice just to differentiate between Jon, Theon and Robb and their relationships to Sean Bean.

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    24. Because we badly need being distracted form the absence of the trailer, let’s play a game, shall we? Hot Pink Lipstick, with her bold idea associating Zack Efron and Jon Snow, is the source of the game I have just invented. Let’s name popular actors which would be totally unsuited to play certain parts in GOT. I’ll start:
      Thank the Seven that Rachel McAddams doesn’t play Daenerys, Ryan Gosling doesn’t play Jaqen H’ghar and Brad Pitt doesn’t play Jorah!

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    25. Jeb,

      Actually they did,for example the scene with Robert and Ned in the crypts is ftom the original pilot and i thought it was great .

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    26. Ace of Mace,

      It was her choice to spend more time with her infant child.

      Geralt of Rivia,

      I don’t think Tamzin is any great shakes and I can see that she’d be worse than Emilia. I just find that Emilia doesn’t captivate me during a scene and I find myself wondering how many innocent wild plastics died to create that wig and if those caterpillars on her forehead are attending the funerals. That is not what I should be thinking during her scenes.

      She does do better with better scene partners. By that I mean neither Daario.

      Kit Harington has shown more growth and maturity as the series has gone along, or maybe he’s just more comfortable in Jon Snow’s skin.

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    27. Also when will people realise that directors in TV don’t have as much input as in the movie industry,for example Alan Taylor who is considered one of the best directors on the show directed in my opinion the worst episode of the show and that is the Night Lands from season 2 but that doesn’t mean he is a bad director just that some episodes are stronger written than others .

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    28. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Because we badly need being distracted form the absence of the trailer, let’s play a game, shall we? Hot Pink Lipstick, with her bold idea associating Zack Efron and Jon Snow, is the source of the game I have just invented. Let’s name popular actors which would be totally unsuited to play certain parts in GOT. I’ll start:
      Thank the Seven that Rachel McAddams doesn’t play Daenerys, Ryan Gosling doesn’t play Jaqen H’ghar and Brad Pitt doesn’t play Jorah!

      Oh…I do like this. Along with The Tudors miscasting, Jonathan Rhys Myers as Robert Baratheon. Selena Gomez as Arya Stark. Keanu Reeves as Ned Stark.

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    29. Count me as another who did not like Tazmin Merchant in The Tudors.

      HotPinkLipstick: Tamzin was supposed to be vapid and clueless

      I agree with you there, that is what her character was supposed to be. However, even within the vapidness and cluelessness there could have been some shades, some colors, and, at least for me, there weren’t. In the end, when she was about to die, I saw a glimpse of something else, and that showed me maybe she could be alright, but in some ways it made me wonder even more why she was so very one-note the rest of the time. Emilia may have some weaker moments, yes, but I’m glad they chose to recast the character. I can’t imagine, at least based on the little bit of Merchant’s work I’ve seen, she could have pulled off the things Emilia has done well.

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    30. Alex Graves is another one,before the Jaime and Cersei thing from S4 everyone thought he was the top elite of directors and after that a lot of people called him a hack and that he shouldn’t return to the show .

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    31. Tyrion the Myrion:
      Also when will people realise that directors in TV don’t have as much input asin the movie industry,for example Alan Taylor who is considered one of the best directors on the show directed in my opinion the worst episode of the show and that is the Night Lands from season 2 but that doesn’t mean he is a bad director just that some episodes are stronger written than others .

      What’s wrong with Night Lands?

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    32. Podcast reveals new info about Game of Thrones disastrous unaired pilot

      I don’t see any new info posted within the article here, is it on the podcast itself or podcast page?

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    33. It’s funny to see this picture of the Stark boys together in Winterfell! Now, two of them are dead, one is a cripple and the last one is missing…

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    34. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Thank the Seven that Jonah Hill doesn’t play Sam, Lady Gaga doesn’t play Melisandre, Channing Tatum doesn’t play Jaime, Andrew Garfield doesn’t play Robb Stark, Michael Douglas doesn’t play Tywin Lannister, Robert Downey Jr. doesn’t play Doran Martell, Idris Elba doesn’t play Tyrion and Javier Bardem doesn’t play Davos.

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    35. There are only two scenes I would like to see from the pilot:
      1. The death of Brandon Stark.
      2. George RR Martin as a Penthosi Magister. He would have given even book!Illyrio a run for his money. 🙂

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    36. Al Swearengen:
      That didn’t really tell us anything except that one person thought it was shit. I find it hard to believe that Tom McCarthy could direct something that bad, he’s not Tommy Wiseau.

      I think they are being hyperbolic about it at this point. I’m sure it wasn’t great but it seems every year the pilot gets worse and worse. Initial comments about why he said they had a major problem was because they didn’t do a good job of introducing the characters and their relationships to each other. I’m sure in another ten years we will be told that if the pilot had been aired it would have destroyed western civilization.

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    37. My theory/assumption about Tamzin Merchant is that she looked too much like book Dany, i.e. delicate, ethereal, and creepily underaged. It would be hard to sell her as a sex symbol, whereas Emilia has that much sexier “yes I am most definitely 18+ and also eat food” look going on. (I also think she’s a perfectly good actress. She depends on good direction, material, and co-stars but when she has that she’s great.)

      I’ve never watched The Tudors but I saw Tamzin in “Copenhagen” and she was very good. I’m sure the problem wasn’t talent but rather style/look. Based on Emilia’s comments it sounds like they went looking for someone of a completely different type.

      I am frankly dying to see that pilot. Even if it’s a train wreck. 😀

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    38. February 2015 had 50 articles and we have 4 so far this February. Looks like there was a lot of cast interviews last February as well as the IMAX Experience, A Day in the Life documentary, the Catch the Throne music stuff and also the poster was unveiled on the 27th.

      I hope this February is as busy, but we’re off to a slow start. We’re talking about a decade old pilot 🙁

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    39. Ross:
      I doubt we’ll ever see it unfortunately but I am intrigued about a) Tamzin Merchant as Daeny (I get the feeling it didn’t work well) and b) Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn (I have a feeling she would have been brilliant).

      I have always been interested to see Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn. Someone above me said they thought her Catelyn would be “chilly”. I couldn’t disagree more. Ehle has always come across warm and accessible. Not taking anything away from Michelle Fairley, who I think did an incredible job, but I do think Ehle would’ve done the character proud, too.
      I think the Tazmin replacement is a little more of a vanity move, then anything to do with her acting. Tazmin is a beautiful woman but she is very youthful, almost ethereal, looking. I think D&D decided they wanted someone more “womanly”. Dany may only be 16 but I think the sexuality of the character was pretty much a focal point early on. This is a young woman who is supposed to marry a Khal after all, and get him to give her his army. Tazmin looks young(ish) and Emilia has the curves and willingness to do the nudity. Not a fan big fan of her acting but she has done a good job.

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    40. hexonx,

      Haha, so true.

      They already explained what the “massive problem” was : non-book readers weren’t able to tell that Jaime and Cersei were actually siblings. That’s why they mention so many times that they are brother and sister in the final version of the pilot.

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    41. Since the show is starting later, they haven’t kicked the promo into a higher gear yet.

      And it’s dreadful.

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    42. Kells: I have always been interested to see Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn. Someone above me said they thought her Catelyn would be “chilly”. Icouldn’t disagree more. Ehle has always come across warm and accessible. Not taking anything away from Michelle Fairley, who I think did an incredible job, but I do think Ehle would’ve done the character proud, too.

      This. ^^^

      I always thought that Ehle would definitely have made me tear up at the Red Wedding. As it is, show Catelyn left me a little cold.

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    43. HotPinkLipstick:
      Since the show is starting later, they haven’t kicked the promo into a higher gear yet.

      And it’s dreadful.

      Yeah but even so…Season 5 premiered on April 12th. Season 6 is a measly 12 days later. That’s not even a full 2 weeks.

      Season 3 premiered March 31st, so I’m not sure why they waited until February 22nd for the trailer back then. Only 37 days between trailer and premiere (average is 77 days). It’s weird they waited so long that year, but they obviously changed their marketing approach for Seasons 4 and 5.

      I hope they don’t wait until March for the trailer this year.

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    44. They need to make that bad pilot a DVD extra blooper. I’m sure it would be amazing (and potentially hilarious) to see. 😀

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    45. To pass the time until the damn trailer arrives, I have created a thread on the forums in which we can share our speculations about the episode titles of season six. That’s always fun! Take a look! 🙂

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    46. Kells: Tazmin looks young(ish) and Emilia has the curves and willingness to do the nudity.

      Not anymore. Just noticed that since season 3 no nudity scene with Emilia, but I’m fine with it unlikely other folks. I want to see her act and deliver good scenes, rather than do nudity.

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    47. I’m not sure they could release the pilot without paying the actors involved. It probably depends on the contracts, but that could be an issue.

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    48. Geralt of Rivia,

      Emilia´s eye brows could use a little trimming but aside from that,I really don´t know why people give her hell for her performance;she does what she can with that character which is actually some sort of DragonWarriorSheElf and actually,IMHO, quite detestable in the book story,as well

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    49. Jack Bauer 24,

      Tamzin might be a decent actress but she lacks that strong stage presence that you need to play Dany. Yes, Dany is tiny and soft in the books but shes also someone who can stand tall and appear great between massive men and armies. Tamzin has never shown any ability to play that sort of role. Her stage presence on the screen is too small.. Shes a “support actress” material at best. Although beauty is subjective and Tamzin is cute, shes no where near as insanely beautiful as Dany is supposed to be.

      Emilia has done incredibly well in acting department as her script requires her to be. She knows how to vulnerable well just as she knows how to be stoic and ruthless. People say shes stiff but if you have seen her in any of her other work or simply go back to season 1, u would know its not her being stiff, its how the script wants her to be. Emilia herself has complained at least twice about how she thinks that Dany is too stiff and needs to lighten up so we know its not her fault.

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    50. Tyrion the Myrion:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      She was awful in the Tudors,that’s the only place i know her from and i’m thankfull she didn’t play Dany. No matter what people say about Emillia Clarke,Merchant would have been 10 times worse .

      Wasn’t Merchant GRRM’s favourite? I think I remember he was disappointed at the recast

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    51. Aryamad:
      They need to make that bad pilot a DVD extra blooper. I’m sure it would be amazing (and potentially hilarious) to see.

      So much this !

      I, like everyone here, would love to see it someday !

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    52. Thinking of the age of Daenerys, regarding casting for the show, how about this: little Kerry Ingram, who played Shireen baratheon, is currently 16 years old. That’s a few years older than Dany in the books, so — no problem matching her up with Khal Drogo, right? :O

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    53. I reckon the pilot was more clunky and confusing rather than that bad. I had read the first 2 books before I watched the show so “got” what was happening – although I remember being surprised as I thought it was pronounced Cate-lyn rather than Cat-elyn! I tried to get my friend into it but during the pilot he was bored by the exposition and still didn’t get that Jaime and Cersei were related let alone twins despite the not very subtle mentions of it!

      OK I admit I was critical of Emilia when she was nominated for an Emmy but I don’t think she’s bad as such she’s just not fantastic/award calibre yet. There’s night and day between herself/Kit and the more experienced actors like Charles Dance, Stephen Dillane, Lena Headey and Peter Dinklage but Kit has come on a lot since the start and I get the impression Emilia is directed to act stoic when it sometimes doesn’t work.

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    54. Yep, thank goodness they pulled it off.

      They did great teasing out sophisticated themes from the relationships portrayed in the book. Weiss/Benioff had great raw material and they are very good miners!

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    55. I just looked at some photos of Tamzin to refresh my memory. She looks perfect for the role of Blandly Pretty Female Extra #3. There’s just nothing remarkable about it. I think she’d fade away in most scenes. Emilia may not be really great at the role, but you don’t forget that she’s on screen.

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    56. Rygar:
      Four words why the reshoot was a success: Tim Van Fucking Patten.

      Reminds me of a stupid joke I heard a while back:

      James Bond and Jean-Claude Van Damme share a drink at a party.
      “Hi, I’m Bond. James Bond.”
      “I’m Damme. Van Damme. Claude van Damme. Jean-Claude van Damme.”

      No need for standing ovations, guys…

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    57. When D&D was talking about season 7 I think some talk came up about a Mercenary I believe ? Sadly thats pretty much nothing to go on at this point, but it’s something.
      Also the Kingslanding idea for season 7. Should be interesting. I wonder why they didn’t mention it lol

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    58. A thing to keep in mind with criticizing both Emilia and Kit is the fact that of the main characters, Jon and Dany are the 2 hardest characters to act(I’m not including Tyrion for obvious reasons). A lot of people don’t like book Dany either, so it’s not just Emilia. Overall, Kit and Emilia have done a good job. Both of their season 2 scripts were poor, but Emilia has been much better since with S3 being her best. Kit is the actor that has improved the most and starting in S4 you could see a different air about him, more confidence. Kit definitely had the weakest material in the first 3 seasons, but the last 2 the material has been better and so has Kit. Now Kit is probably one of the 5 best male actors on the show(IMO).

      I couldn’t imagine trying to create a pilot for ASOIAF. There are so many characters with so much backstory. The pilot that aired was terrific though and remains one of the best written episodes(IMO).

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    59. Interesting!….. Having seen Jennifer Ehle in Pride and Prejudice, as well as more recently in The Blacklist, I am really intrigued as to how her Catelyn would have been. I am one of those people who was relatively unmoved by the show’s Catelyn; perhaps that would have changed with Ehle. Perhaps not.

      Good move having Emilia Clarke replace Tamzin Merchant. I saw Merchant in Pride and Prejudice also (Georgiana Darcy) and she just fades into the background. Clarke has been fine for me; it’s the script – and story – for the Essos part of the series that has been totally atrocious at times. Simply horrendous. But Clarke has tons of screen presence and definitely doesn’t fade into the background.

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    60. I hope we never see the original pilot (and I doubt we will). Just look at this post. We would be constantly inundated with “Tamzin/Jennifer would have done that scene better.” Well, not so much Jennifer any more.

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    61. Don’t want to be pessemistic but this does make me worry about the no-book-to-refer-to-for-details period we find ourselves in. Before I get labelled a book purist by the usual rabble, I do think D&D have done a great job so far but IMO the weakest parts of the show have been the ones where they have wandered too far from the source material. Some changes were unavoidable and well done but some…well, they haven’t worked out as well.

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    62. I wonder if this pilot will ever be released? After the show has finished maybe, on the DVD boxset or something? I know that we’d all love to watch it, just to see how bad it really is meant to be.

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    63. TheTouchofFroste:
      but IMO the weakest parts of the show have been the ones where they have wandered too far from the source material.

      This has a logical explanation that has nothing to do with their talent.

      They already cut the weakest parts of the books, so every scene from the books is good, because they only chose good parts.

      There are so many lines and scenes and characters and plotlines from the books that would have been a complete disaster on the show.

      And the most hated scene from S5 had lines from AFFC.

        Quote  Reply

    64. I wonder what make the pilot so afwul, besides the changes of the actresses (they did such a horrible work? They didn’t have chemistry with the other actors?) and the Jaime/Cersei relationship. What it doesn’t work? The script, how they put the images, the FX…? It could be awesome to see it and compare with the final pilot (I could have killed for the Aerys scene T_T)

      If this airs someday, it could become one of those B-movies cult XD

        Quote  Reply

    65. mau,

      That’s pretty much what I just said! I’ve already mentioned how they had to make changes and did most of them well. They’ve maintained all of the major storylines from the book which had been very fleshed out by the book which would explain why they’re “good”. With just the outlines to go by then they have to put their own interpretation on things now which worries me as some of their interpretations I’ve not really liked. The pilot,if it’s as poo as everyone seems to think, suggests that sometimes their interpretation can be off which is why it is a worry going forward. Fingers crossed I’m worrying needlessly.
      You’re going to have to be more specific with the most hated scene thing as the one that is generally hated the most is one that I thought was a very sensible change.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Alex G,

      Found this on….
      http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Execution_of_Rickard_and_Brandon_Stark

      The execution was set to be featured in a flashback scene. Footage of the scene appeared in the “Fear and Blood” first season trailer but has not appeared in any aired episode of the series. The scene was cut for time reasons.
      In the scene Aerys was played by Liam Burke and Brandon was played by an unidentified actor. It is unknown if an actor was cast to play Rickard.

        Quote  Reply

    67. mau: so every scene from the books is good, because they only chose good parts.

      Since I have never read the books, I am not really qualified to comment. But certain overall storylines, characters and plots in the show ARE from the books, I am sure, and they are definitely not so good! 😉

        Quote  Reply

    68. Queen of the Throne Age,

      And here is said trailer….
      http://youtu.be/VG1JrjJeK64

      It’s so quick and you can’t really see Aerys as he’s in a blurred background, but you can clearly see Brandon Stark (it’s a real close up on his face as he strangles himself trying to save Lord Rickon), I thought it was Ned/Sean Bean when I first saw it, it’s uncanny how much it looks like him, he was certainly well cast as his brother, whoever he is!

        Quote  Reply

    69. Alex G,

      And here is said trailer Season 1 trailer with the deleted scene….
      http://youtu.be/VG1JrjJeK64

      It’s so quick and you can’t really see Aerys as he’s in a blurred background, but you can clearly see Brandon Stark (it’s a real close up on his face as he strangles himself trying to save Lord Rickon), I thought it was Ned/Sean Bean when I first saw it, it’s uncanny how much it looks like him, he was certainly well cast as his brother, whoever he is!

        Quote  Reply

    70. mau: And the most hated scene from S5 had lines from AFFC.

      I know exactly what you’re refering to. The fact that certain book readers who loved A Feast For Crows whined about Obara’s speech in “Sons of the Harpy” was absolutely hilarious. It was taken almost line by line from “The Captain of Guards”, the first Dornish chapter, and the context was the same: Obara telling the story of how she met his father in order to make the point that she will always choose the path of war. And spouting this exposition to someone who damn well knows about it already (Doran in the books, Ellaria in the show).

      This is not unlike those who mock the Emmy win of “Mother’s Mercy” because “lol, ‘You want the bad pussy’ won a writing Emmy”. So I guess that means “Fat Pink mast” and “Myrish Swamp” were considered high enough prose to be nominated for a Hugo Award! Or maybe you can’t judge a whole work of writing by a single line. Who knew!

        Quote  Reply

    71. Brandon,

      Kit is not one of the top 5 male actors, that’s a huge stretch. Yes he has improved since season 4, but he’s still not all that great. What’s improved the most is that he learned how to close his mouth (he literally could not close his mouth the first 3 seasons) and he’s begun to speak in a deeper and rougher sounding voice. Gives him a more mature sound. The actual acting isn’t up to par. Any other actor with better skills would’ve been nominated for his season 5 work, maybe even opwon, but Kit still has noticeable flaws.

      I have high hopes for season 6 though, I sincerely think he’s going to get fantastic scenes. Really hoping he can pull them off.

        Quote  Reply

    72. man, I looked up for some photos with Tamzin …. wow that’s one ugly bitch. Lol how could you cast such a woman for dany role?

        Quote  Reply

    73. TheTouchofFrost,

      Ugh,you know what i’m just going to ignore you guys from now on and pretend you don’t exist,i really don’t have much time to annoy myself with your dribel and purism .

        Quote  Reply

    74. mau: And the most hated scene from S5 had lines from AFFC.

      I know exactly what you’re refering to. The fact that certain book readers who loved A Feast For Crows whined about Obara’s speech in “Sons of the Harpy” was absolutely hilarious. It was taken almost line by line from “The Captain of Guards”, the first Dornish chapter, and the context was the same: Obara telling the story of how she met his father in order to make the point that she will always choose the path of war. And spouting this exposition to someone who damn well knows about it already (Doran in the books, Ellaria in the show).

      This is not unlike those who mock the Emmy win of “Mother’s Mercy” because “lol, ‘You want the bad pussy’ won a writing Emmy”. So I guess that means “Fat Pink mast” and “Myrish Swamp” were considered high enough prose to be nominated for a Hugo Award! Or maybe you can’t judge a whole work of writing by a single line. Who knew! If this loud abnoxious minority judged the books by the same standard by which they judge the show because of its deviations… I can’t even imagine! I wonder what they would think if Tyrion did a somersault when he met Jon in the show, if he hadn’t done it in the book (truly, he did; look it up). “A betrayal, a mockery of the character!”

        Quote  Reply

    75. Ross,

      This!
      I totally agree with you on Tamzin and Jennifer Ehle. And I am also thankful to HBO for staying with them!! My life would have been less colorful than it is!

        Quote  Reply

    76. TheTouchofFrost:
      mau,
      With just the outlines to go by then they have to put their own interpretation on things now which worries me as some of their interpretations I’ve not really liked.

      But you won’t know what is their interpretation, what is original and what is from the books.
      Intentionally or not, book knowledge does affect everyone of us.
      I don’t know what you didn’t like in the show, so I can’t speculate.

      The most hated scene was SS introduction.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Because we badly need being distracted form the absence of the trailer, let’s play a game, shall we? Hot Pink Lipstick, with her bold idea associating Zack Efron and Jon Snow, is the source of the game I have just invented. Let’s name popular actors which would be totally unsuited to play certain parts in GOT. I’ll start:
      Thank the Seven that Rachel McAddams doesn’t play Daenerys, Ryan Gosling doesn’t play Jaqen H’ghar and Brad Pitt doesn’t play Jorah!

      Funny game! 😀 Here’s my 3 improbable actors:

      Thank the Seven that Danny DeVito doesn’t play Tyrion, Adam Sandler doesn’t play Littlefinger and Justin Bieber doesn’t play Joffrey Baratheon!

      No wait, the last one could have been funny…
      And just noticed they’re both JB… It can’t be a coincidence. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    78. TheTouchofFroste,

      Publishers don’t have much interest in supporting TV projects unless they get some benefit. I wondered if George(his publishers) has given the producers a peek at his manuscripts, or at least, let them know the outline and outcome of what he’s working on right now. Many good show lines come from the book. So, if they don’t have that to draw from, they’ll have to really show their word-smithing skills. I don’t doubt that they have them.

        Quote  Reply

    79. El-Bobby,

      I gotta agree that Kit isn’t the best actor… God bless him, and everything, but, he’s very stiff. If, as you say, he’s making conscious effort to close his mouth, that might be why I have impressions of his jaw and shoulders being tight.

      I wish him the best, going forward though..

        Quote  Reply

    80. The main problem and why there is lot of criticism for Emilia i believe is that viewers fail to differentiate the character and the actress..

      She is playing a character that has been stalled and bloated by both GRRm and D&D …she had her character developed and evolved at the end of season 1 and since then they are just waiting for her to go to westeros..and right now in season 5 she was playing a character that is being indecisive and on a backfoot and making mistakes ..
      Which is never a good thing to be liked by audience..and the fact that she is playing most hated character is also doesn’t help the matters

      I don’t know why they went with one dimensional and stoic queen …but the reason she has good moments here and there because thats pretty much how her character is written ..

      On the other hand take kit he is being praised for his improved performance and take a look at jon he is been evolved and developed more of an character in the last two season and jon is now confident and was on a forward momentum …which is attributed to the actors performance …
      Whereas I believe kit is same as the actor in earlier seasons maybe more experienced..but he was good even back then and did what was asked of him

        Quote  Reply

    81. Anon: I gotta agree that Kit isn’t the best actor… God bless him, and everything, but, he’s very stiff.

      Gee, that doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that Harrington is playing a very reserved and self-conscious character, does it? A “loose” Jon Snow would be a very wrong Jon Snow! (That stated, the few times that Jon does loosen up, Harrington has done fine; it does seem weird, though, but then it seems weird on the few occasions that it happens in the books, too.)

        Quote  Reply

    82. Queen of the Throne Age:
      Alex G,

      It’s so quick and you can’t really see Aerys as he’s in a blurred background, but you can clearly see Brandon Stark (it’s a real close up on his face as he strangles himself trying to save Lord Rickon), I thought it was Ned/Sean Bean when I first saw it, it’s uncanny how much it looks like him, he was certainly well cast as his brother, whoever he is!

      I’m pretty sure Sean Bean did play his brother Brandon in the flashback sequence. 🙂 They couldn’t find another actor who knew as many ways to die as he did. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    83. Anon: I wondered if George(his publishers) has given the producers a peek at his manuscripts, or at least, let them know the outline and outcome of what he’s working on right now.

      B&W almost certainly have seen more of Winter than his publishers have seen, and they got it from Martin, not the publishers. Indeed, it is quite possible that they’ve seen nothing except the leftover chapters from Dragons, as GRRM does not work with an editor as he writes. (Fantasy is one genre where editors seem to get little use: in most literature, editors make heavy emendations to works, and if authors balk, then the book does not get published.)

      Anon: Many good show lines come from the book.

      True, but, then, a huge chunk of the lines come from the books, so we expect that simply by chance. That stated, some of the best scenes in the series have been invented by B&W, and many of the dullest thud scenes were largely from the books. In a way, that should not be surprising: GRRM wrote novels, not scripts, and novels make terrible scripts (and vice versa). GRRM obviously would have done it differently himself if he had been writing this for the TV series medium rather than the literary medium: different types of story telling often demand that you do very different things to tell the same story.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Wow, they sure filled that S1 trailer full of spoilers! Including Viserys croaking and Dany nude after the fire with a baby dragon on her shoulder

        Quote  Reply

    85. Here’s the deal-while Jennifer Ehle absolutely had the acting chops to play Cat, her eyes are too lovely and mischievous. Cat’s eyes needed to be serious, judgemental and sad. Michelle Fairley’s face does that better.

      Think about it. Cat’s not a hero. In the books and to a lesser degree the show

      , she’s a relatively unsympathetic character whose extreme actions destroy everyone she professes to love.

      . Ehle’s eyes aren’t right for that. Seriously, can you see Eliza Bennett as

      LSH?

      . No you can not.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Queen of the Throne Age:
      Alex G,

      Found this on….
      http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Execution_of_Rickard_and_Brandon_Stark

      The execution was set to be featured in a flashback scene. Footage of the scene appeared in the “Fear and Blood” first season trailer but has not appeared in any aired episode of the series. The scene was cut for time reasons.
      In the scene Aerys was played by Liam Burke and Brandon was played by an unidentified actor. It is unknown if an actor was cast to play Rickard.

      Wow, I always thought flashback Brandon was played by Sean Bean. He looks sooo much like Ned in that picture.

      Of all the cuts from the un-aired pilot I wish they’d left in, it’s the deaths of Brandon and Rickard Stark. Just the quick shot that made it into the trailer makes it look like a powerful scene. Even if it is more Stark-suffering.

      As for it being unclear in the pilot that Jaime & Cersei were siblings, as a show-watcher-first, I thought the line from Cersei to Jaime about “where is our little brother” made it abundantly clear that they were siblings. And I think when Arya sees Jaime, she says that he’s the queen’s brother.

      Every time I rewatch the pilot, I get a kick out of picking out the scenes that made the cut from the un-aired version. Most people point out Ned’s obviously different hairstyles, but Benjen also hilariously sported 2 different hairdos in the pilot.

        Quote  Reply

    87. BunBunStark: Wow, I always thought flashback Brandon was played by Sean Bean. He looks sooo much like Ned in that picture.

      That is Sean Bean. That or they found his long lost twin brother to play the part. In season one Ned gets kicked by a guard and wakes up in the Black Cells. The assumption back in season by many fans was that Ned wakes up from dreaming being Brandon in his last moments and thats why the role was played by Sean Bean.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Cersei’s Brain:
      Kay,

      Huh?How can you comment on this when you haven’t read?Weird post

      Weird? Really?
      I haven’t read the books, but I have read comments here in extreme, minutest details by bookreaders about what in the show was, or wasn’t in the books. It’s really not that weird to conclude that a lot of the beats in the Daenerys Essos storylines from Meereen onwards WERE in the books. And IMO, that entire plot is pretty bad.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Any chance they’d premier the trailer during the Super Bowl? Or maybe a short tease? I know it’s tons of money, but they seem to be throwing money at the show lately anyway.

      It’s either higher ratings for their new show on the 14th, or taking advantage of ENORMOUS numbers this Sunday.

        Quote  Reply

    90. El-Bobbie:
      Any chance they’d premier the trailer during the Super Bowl? Or maybe a short tease? I know it’s tons of money, but they seem to be throwing money at the show lately anyway.

      It’s either higher ratings for their new show on the 14th, or taking advantage of ENORMOUS numbers this Sunday.

      I’m not sure about this, but I think they would want to announce something like that ahead of time, it could still come on Sunday but probably not with the super bowl. Good news is they can still announce it for the 14th, wouldn’t cost them as much and probably higher rating for Vinyl. jack said there has been a 77 day gap in between the first official trailer and the season premier. so at the most lets wait for day 77 witch is this Sunday. anything after day 77 should be when that trailer releases mainly on the 7th or 14th. 🙂 any moment now jack will appear and reassure us all. XD

        Quote  Reply

    91. El-Bobby,

      Regarding Kit and Emilia, I don’t think he would be in the top 5 male actors either, not with this show having the likes of Charles Dance, Alfie Allen, Peter Dinklage,Stephen Dillane, Liam Cunningham, Harry Lloyd to name a few. There is a big gap in the acting range when you compare Kit with these actors. I would say Kit Harington is currently above average. But to say he has only learnt to shut his mouth is a bit harsh, I think. His acting has improved, he is able to express better with his eyes, which is important when you are playing an introverted character like Jon, who keeps all his thoughts and feelings within himself. His acting in the Janos execution scene, the stare down with the Night’s King etc were pretty good.

      I think people are willing to cut more slack with Kit than with Emilia because he has only improved from season to season where as Emilia is pretty inconsistent within a given season and her best work was way back in S1. But when she is given good material to work with, she has done really well. And like others have said, her biggest asset might be that she has a lot of charisma, which is important for a character like Dany.

      Geralt of Rivia,

      I don’t necessarily think having Jon and Dany having scenes together would fail. We not know until we actually see them together I guess. I have only seen some still photos of the two of them together and their chemistry actually comes through even in those photos. If they are given good material, they could definitely work well together.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Matthew The Dragon knight,
      Matthew The Dragon knight,
      Just remember that the 77 days thing was to manage expectations half-January, not now. ?

      Think about it like this: HBO will want to maximise media and social media attention.
      Feb 7 is in the US the Superbowl.
      Feb 9 are the New Hampshire primaries, which are also super- super-important. (The next primary is Feb 20.)

      On the other hand, Feb 14 is both the Vinyl premiere and Valentine’s Day. VD is a much much more personal occasion than the sports/politics.

      So, it feels much more likely that HBO will let the hype from both the SB and the NH primary die out, and then release the trailer, with their new show to boot.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Matthew The Dragon knight: I’m not sure about this, but I think they would want to announce something like that ahead of time, it could still come on Sunday but probably not with the super bowl. Good news is they can still announce it for the 14th, wouldn’t cost them as much and probably higher rating for Vinyl. jack said there has been a 77 day gap in between the first official trailer and the season premier. so at the most lets wait for day 77 witch is this Sunday. anything after day 77 should be when that trailer releases mainly on the 7th or 14th. any moment now jack will appear and reassure us all. XD

      Yes that is correct 🙂 I’m still going with the 14th because I don’t think they’ll do any promotion during the Super Bowl. Sunday is 77 days from the premeire, so the trailer really can drop any day, but I do think they’ll announce it ahead of time.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Yaga,

      Agreed, on all accounts. No reason to waste such a fortune on a super bowl ad when they can boost potential viewers for a new show’s premier. (I don’t think the number of glossy Super Bowl watching eyeballs warrants the cost, especially so given how widely successful the show is on it’s own merit already)

      I don’t care about watching the pilot, nor do I think we will ever see it. I’m sure it’s locked away in Xaro’s vault. I would, however, love to see the scene featuring the Mad King, Brandon Stark, and presumably Rickard Stark. I have hopes we will get either another version of this scene, or maybe even the original shoot as a bonus feature.

        Quote  Reply

    95. re: top actors/actresses on show..

      It’s quite normal for the leads to impress less in such an ensemble as GoT. The really juicy parts are the supporting ones – Tywin, Theon, Oberyn, Olenna, Brienne.
      I think Kit and Emilia are superb at what they do – they are the bones on which the tasty meat is served!
      Anyway here’s my choices.
      Favourite 5 actor performances on show
      1. Alfie Allen
      2. Charles Dance
      3. Peter Dinklage
      4. Jack Gleeson
      5. Pedro Pascal

      Actress:
      1. Diana Rigg
      2. Lena Headey
      3. Michelle Fairley
      4. Rose Leslie
      5. Gwendoline Christie

        Quote  Reply

    96. I am not expecting anything before the 14th, in order to not be disappointed. That’s what I keep telling myself every time I load WotW. Expecting nothing. Let’s just check the site. No hurry. Let’s just check again. I wonder if anything. No. Well, tomorrow’s a new day. Hmm, one more peek before bed.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Anon:

      I don’t see him as being stiff. Tense? Yeah. But that’s how they wanted him to be, emo with bottled up angst. The only time I can recall some faltering (in my mind) was the moment he saw Ygritte on the battlefield. Oh, there was another when she was his prisoner but I think that was more of an editing issue. Remember the time with Mance where he asks how he’s to be killed? That whole scene, for one, has some finely nuanced acting from Kit. Most of the cast is great, I can’t even really rank them because they’re all just as good in their own way. I’d have to do by least favorites, of those still alive, in no particular order:

      Lancel
      Littlefinger
      Dany (though she does try, and at times succeeds, not enough.)
      Arya (does her character know how to make more than one face anymore?)
      Jorah (He’s getting on my nerves lately)

        Quote  Reply

    98. cosca: Scary

      cosca:
      I have a hard time trusting the creative judgment of the man responsible for writing Scary Movie 3 and Scary Movie 4.

      Hey, he also wrote Hangover 2 & 3 😉

      But D&D seem to trust his judgement, so let’s just assume his resume doesn’t reflect his skills

        Quote  Reply

    99. A couple of things made me smile as I read this story:
      Thank goodness D&D had the brains and courage to ask someone his opinion of the pilot. With luck, it was this guy Mazin, who was massively honest about the massive problems with it. Luck again, that D&D didn’t pull prima-donna hissy fits, but took the advice in stride and actually DID something constructive. It shows a lot of class, actually, plus an incredible amount of determination on their part. They WANTED to make this show, and they wanted it to be right, so they tamped down their pride and possible annoyance at being told their baby was ugly and did the work. That step is in itself a rare occurrence.

      Having the willingness to make changes is only a part of the equation. Knowing what the fuck to do about making the changes is a whole other trial. Even though Mr. Mazin couldn’t tell them exactly what was wrong or how to fix it, somehow they figured it out. It must have been a situation where they had conflicted feelings about a number of issues even as they were writing and filming it. When the negative feedback was given, they had a pretty good idea of where to start repairs. And yes, they turned it into something brilliant. Thank goodness.

        Quote  Reply

    100. BunBunStark: Every time I rewatch the pilot, I get a kick out of picking out the scenes that made the cut from the un-aired version. Most people point out Ned’s obviously different hairstyles, but Benjen also hilariously sported 2 different hairdos in the pilot.

      Not to mention the weird shaving scene inserted to explain why Robb&Co are suddenly clean-shaven in the Winterfell scenes form the original pilot

        Quote  Reply

    101. Henry Gordon,

      You are right. But that’s exactly why I’d like to see Jennifer Ehle as Catelyn, because I can’t imagine how it could work. I couldn’t separate Jennifer Ehle from Lizzy Bennett, but then I watched Zero Dark Thirty and Spooks and noticed that she can be convincing playing other parts as well.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Hmm. New game. Predictions for episode titles? I almost feel like one could be ‘War of the Three Queens’. The teasers are all three men (Ramsay, the High Sparrow and Khal X) threatening three women (Sansa, Cersei and Dany), and so I think that

      by the end of the season, each of these women will be a Queen (well, in Cersei’s case, ‘a Queen in her own right’ and in Dany’s, ‘again’). Plus, this could work against a certain book quote?

      E: speculation, spoilered just in case

        Quote  Reply

    103. I really, really want to see this pilot now 🙂

      M:

      In Season 5, I believe a “Lord Mazin” is mentioned among the Northern lords Jon is asking for NW recruits. I’m guessing this was to honour Craig.

      Really cool tidbit! Thank you for sharing!

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ygritte:

      I’d have to do by least favorites, of those still alive, in no particular order:
      (…)
      Arya (does her character know how to make more than one face anymore?)
      Jorah (He’s getting on my nerves lately)

      Maisie and Iain? Really? Those two are phenomenal!

        Quote  Reply

    105. Abyss,

      thanks.. it was a great read 🙂
      But guess the producers were right as the aired plot was gazillions times better in terms of character introduction

        Quote  Reply

    106. Abyss:
      Btw, for everybody who interested, here is the script for the unaired pilot. We will never see it if you asked me, but we can always read it.

      That is an interesting script as it clearly differs in places to the final episode, but I don’t think it can be the original pilot script can it? We know the original pilot included, for example, Jon Arryn’s death scene, which this script has already removed.
      Perhaps it’s a later draft but not final.

        Quote  Reply

    107. idk if Tamzin would have been better than Clarke; unlike Tamzin, Clarke can draw the camera. Drawback: Clarke can’t act to save her life, so when asked to emote anything other than deer in the headlights or feisty hero, she messes up. Surely they could have found someone who had both the appeal and the talent?

      Jennifer Ehle is good, but Michelle had chemistry with Bean. I believed that they were a settled, happy, middle-aged couple, still deeply in love. Chemistry is hard to find, and it made the first season work. Maybe that was lacking with Ehle.

      My favorite actors would be a long list, as this is a well-cast show. My least favorites:
      The Snakes, omfg
      Dany, who is getting weaker as seasons pass.
      Jon, who is getting stronger, so maybe he’ll be off my list next year.
      Shae. She was bad enough to qualify as an honorary Snake.

        Quote  Reply

    108. I may have my issues with Emilia Clark’s acting ability but when it come to those pivotal moments in S3 she completely knocked it out of the park. I have a hard time picturing Tamzin Merchant nailing those scenes. She was pretty forgettable in The Tudors IMO.

      Jeb,

      You should watch Spotlight, it’s fantastic. I went in expecting Oscar bait and ended up being thoroughly engaged and riveted for two hours.

      McCarthy will always be that douchebag reporter from The Wire to me though 😀

        Quote  Reply

    109. Luka Nieto,

      Hey now, that’s not fair – fat pink mast and myrish swamp weren’t LINES said by a character in the book aloud. Also, some things, like violence and horrible lines resonated more in your face in a visual and auditory medium.

      I’m allowed to cringe at the bad pussy line, but that was not on my top 5 cringworthy things about the sand snakes. Actually, it was pretty funny at the time – the whole Bronn/snake dynamic was fun

        Quote  Reply

    110. Every time I get a notification via email from this thread, I see “Podcast reveals….” and immediately picture Daniel Portman with a megaphone.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Mr Fixit,

      Oh they are good, as is all the cast, besides Shae and sand snakes. They just make my list if i had to chose current least favorite. They seem kind of stagnant.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Waxfoot,

      Actors:
      1. Charles Dance
      2. Stephen Dillane
      3. Peter Dinklage
      4. Jonathan Pryce
      5. Michael McElhatton

      Actress
      1. Diana Rigg
      2. Lena Headey
      3. Maisie Williams
      4. Natalie Dormer
      5. Michelle Fairley

        Quote  Reply

    113. ghost of winterfell,

      It’s not juts about material. It’s about how they act in those quit scenes and work with what they got. If you are in top 5 paid actors on this show, you just have to work with basically nothing and improvise. Sorry it can be turned into boredom easily with them. Emilia shines in those big scenes and especially High Valyrian, Kit with action packed sequences more than anything. They do have a chemistry, not on Jason/Emilia level but they do. It’s not that hard to have chemistry with her. Part of me really hopes that they just stay away from this potential romance, but it looks we’re heading towards it.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Geralt of Rivia,

      By chemistry I don’t mean romance, just that they seem to relate well to each other. One thing common between them is that so far they have not had the chance to interact with any of the other big characters, unlike say, characters based in KL, till S5 which also affected their performance. And when they did get that chance, they were good, Dany with Tyrion and Jon with Stannis. Anyway, I think they will be good together and I don’t mean that romantically. So lets see 🙂 .

        Quote  Reply

    115. I kind of love knowing I’m not the only one obsessively refreshing hoping for some news. I’m just glad I have Watchers to post it for me so I don’t have to hunt it down myself. All that googling would be so exhausting.

      I love the thought of Pod with a megaphone. …I just love Pod.

        Quote  Reply

    116. I’m kind of dumbfounded what has happened with Emilia. She is a very nice person, but I don’t think she’s a very good actress. But it’s weird because she was quite good in season 1. And she was quite good in some of her very limited pre-GOT stuff and the stuff she did right around season 1. But she might be one of the only examples I can think of where she is worsening with each passing year. Each new thing she does is worst than the last in my opinion. And this matches her Game of Thrones work. I think each season for her is worse than the last. It’s an odd downturn I can’t remember ever seeing before. Common sense suggests more reps equals more improvement. But it seems the opposite for her. At least in my opinion.

        Quote  Reply

    117. ghost of winterfell,

      The scene between Dany and Jon will be something unique in the television history.

      I can’t think of any show ever that had first scene between two major characters in S7 (or S8).

      The hype was big for Dany and Tyrion, but for Dany and Jon…..

      I can’t even imagine that!

      I think that internet will break the Earth will stop spinning. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    118. Tyrion the Myrion,

      You do realise this very post you’ve so finely crafted contradicts everything within it?

      mau,

      Will have to review it retrospectively when the book eventually comes out, I guess. If the quality does drop this season then you know where the fingers will be pointed fairly or unfairly. Generally the interpretations I’ve disliked are the presentation of some characters that I think hasn’t done them as much justice as the books did (Brienne, Loras, elements of others) and some events. Not gonna grumble too much as they’re still certainly hitting more than they miss.
      Oh then yes that did suck donkey’s! I don’t think the lines themselves were that bad they were just shoehorned in randomly and completely without context. I wasn’t a massive fan of the Dorne stuff in the books and was genuinely hopeful that they could improve it for the show but I’m starting to wonder if they’d had followed the books more closely it may have been better than what we got.

      Anon,

      Not sure how involved George really is now. I mean, I’d be all for him advising a lot more now there’s no chance of the books finishing before the show. This would make the finished product a lot closer to his vision. I can’t help but worry as I’ve seen so many shows that have overtaken their source material and ended poorly as opposed to those that had that there to reference.
      I’m sure they’ll be ok as long as they don’t try and make it too soundbitey. The’ve come up with a lot of decent original stuff although I lament some of the great lines/jokes they’ve left out.

      It’s certainly going to be the season where we see if all previous momentum can carry them to the finish. Fingers crossed.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Deesensfan,

      I really like the option because I can’t always be on the website and the emails go to my phone. Of course, when I pick up my phone and there’s 200 unread emails….lol.

      There are usually 2 options to check off after you make a comment, just below the ‘Post Comment’ button.

      -Notify me of follow-up comments by email.
      -Notify me of new posts by email.

      If you check those off before you hit ‘Post Comment’ you should get the notifications?

        Quote  Reply

    120. So wait… you expect me to believe D&D screwed it up? *D&D* >?! Screwed up ASOIAF? GoT wasn’t good?

      Not possible.

      Oh wait, they just keep on screwing it up more and more. How quaint.

        Quote  Reply

    121. TheTouchofFrost,

      General viewership does not care about Loras or Brienne

      I don’t think a show with only ten hours a year can go so much into detail for both primary and secondary characters. Its not possible. I don’t think that is the fault of show creators.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Deesensfan:
      TheTouchofFrost,

      General viewership does not care about Loras or Brienne

      I don’t think a show with only ten hours a year can go so much into detail for both primary and secondary characters. Its not possible. I don’t think that is the fault of show creators.

      I agree, and I love show Brienne. There is only so much material that can be put into ten episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Deesensfan,

      Love Brienne! Gwendoline does an amazing job. Her scene last season with Podrick, when she was talking about Renly, was really good.

      Agree on Loras tough, he doesn’t get much screen-time but it’s the same it the books.
      He isn’t some huge character they ”butchered” it’s a minor character who gets an screen-time equally proportional to his importance.

      Just to make it clear, I completly disagree with him on Loras being writen ”badly” I like him in both mediums but he is a very small character that has very little to do with the story. Hell even less so in the books, where he isn’t even the hair to Highgarden.

      This is simply because of the mediums. In the books you can flash out minor characters and have more sub-plots too make the world feel more ”alive”.
      In a TV show that is actoully harming the story, where the main focus has to be the main plot and main characters. You don’t have the luxury of giving Loras or other minor characters 30+minutes of screen-time.

      That is what many book-readers fail too understand. Like Wimsey put’s it a good book doesn’t make a good script.

        Quote  Reply

    124. ghost of winterfell,

      He will certainly interact with other major players in the North, but i get your point. Daeny could meet Euron or Cersei. It might turn out good or bad, because they’re inconsistent i remain sceptical. I would like them to be friends or simply if that theory is true family. In fact that’s what they want. Putting them together romantically it’s just a lazy way out.

      mau,

        Quote  Reply

    125. Ross,

      Well, maybe I should have written a script. But then again, scripts change all the time so it’s hard to say what the “true” script of the pilot is. Maybe the one that was used when the filming was finished. But then you know at another point of filming another script was the script of the pilot. 😉

      As far as the Jon Arryn’s death scene goes: We know that it was in one version of the pilot. This script could have been a version before that scene was written in or after it was written out during filming the pilot.

        Quote  Reply

    126. I’ve seen Tamzin Merchant in only two shows, the Tudors and Camelot, she was OK in Tudors not great, not bad just OK; but I thought she was a bad choice for Guenevere in Camelot I don’t think Gwen would be a blond, dark hair maybe Pictish but not blond .

      Ehle would had been a good Cat, but I’m happy with MF so to me it would be a win win.

        Quote  Reply

    127. This has probably been said a lot in these comments at this point, but I jumped to (and always support) the bottom!

      Now that it’s out there that it was really bad, what’s stopping D&D from adding the original pilot to a Blu-ray/DVD release as a special feature? Sort of a really long deleted scene? Probably something to do with contracts of those actors who didn’t end up in the finished product.

      Sigh…..what a gold mine they can’t do anything with…..

        Quote  Reply

    128. Randy Tarly’s Minivan:
      Probably something to do with contracts of those actors who didn’t end up in the finished product.

      Probably this. But also from another standpoint, artists in general are not very keen on showing work to the public that they do not deem presentable. I mean there are painters who burnt their entire early work because they thought it was rubbish and it should not be considered part of their oeuvre. Soooo… I would not be surprised if we never saw that pilot.

        Quote  Reply

    129. Sigh…does anybody think the trailer might be released during The Walking Dead premiere? This wait is just getting ridiculous 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    130. HotPinkLipstick:
      Sometimes I think show producers/creators/directors/actors are living in this echo chamber where everyone tells them how wonderful everything is. That’s why we get total shit movies like, showing my age, Ishtar.

      Showrunners/actors/etc need this. Just the same way George needs an editor.

      I knew this was coming when I read your first paragraph! xD

        Quote  Reply

    131. Looking at the pic at the top of the thread of the Stark boys, does anybody think it prophetic that it shows an early close relationship between Bran and Jon? I’m so into seeing how Bran’s powers will be used to help Jon, maybe also Sansa and Arya, if/when she returns to Westeros. Obviously, I’m taking it as a given that Jon is coming back, and I think it’s going to be in the first episode. I envision Bran whispering “Jon, wake up, it’s time. Jon … JON!”

      I’m also excited to see Euron, but am afraid that he will be this season’s Sand Snake. Please let him be an awesome character, well done. I’d much rather read raves about his performance than constant groaning and complaining that he’s not what he should be.

      I can’t wait to see the Dragons – aren’t they supposed to be huge by now? I am imagining a scene of Tyrion going down to take a peek at the two being held, and almost getting burned to a crisp by a plume of flame surging from the darkness, then a quick scene of a huge, enraged dragon head.

      Maybe it’s taking so long because they are being particularly careful with the editing. People complained last year that the trailer spoiled some important plot points. I don’t remember what was spoiled, maybe because I didn’t care, but I do remember the grumbling. Right about now I could do with a teensy bit of spoiling, apologies to all the spoiler-phobic out there.

      I just can’t wait to be on this site when the first episode airs, to comment as things unfold, and then read Oz’s Hilarious Twitter recap a few days later.

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    132. Deesensfan,

      I think Brienne and Loras both have a sizeable following. Obviously not main characters but noteworthy. It’s not how much time they’ve had to develop them it’s what they have done with that time I’m not a fan of. I think book Brienne was much more sympathetic and likeable whereas show Brienne is quite robotic. Did we really need that pointless chase scene with her at the start of last season? Personally, I think it would have been muc hbetter spent fleshing out her personality. Loras was an interesting character who happened to be gay in the books. In the show he’s gay and he’s gay and well that’s about it. Beyond minor quibbles they’ve pretty much got the bigger characters right though.

        Quote  Reply

    133. TheTouchofFrost:
      Oh then yes that did suck donkey’s! I don’t think the lines themselves were that bad they were just shoehorned in randomly and completely without context.

      The context was the same as in the books, as Luka Nieto explained.

        Quote  Reply

    134. Alex G:
      Sigh…does anybody think the trailer might be released during The Walking Dead premiere? This wait is just getting ridiculous

      The Walking Dead premiere is Feb 14th, the same date as The HBO premiere of Vinyl…I expect the trailer to hit right before the Vinyl premiere and then again right before the repeat…it makes sense, HBO promotes the new show and also steals some of Walking Dead’s thunder…I don’t think we should expect the trailer before then.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Mihnea,

      I like Brienne, I’m just saying I don’t think general viewership care to know more about her anything

      TheTouchofFrost,

      Yeah that’s a little different, for people who havent read the books, she’s fine as is I guess
      Cause we all like her 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    136. Abyss,

      Sure, fair point, but I guess ultimately there is only one script of the pilot that was actually filmed and completed (and then trashed and redone). I don’t think that is this one that was filmed (I think it is a script somewhere in between the first filming and the second), but it was still a fascinating read, thank you.

        Quote  Reply

    137. Thronetender: I’m so into seeing how Bran’s powers will be used to help Jon

      I’ve long held Bran will have something to do with Jon’s revival, even if those at Castle Black (Mel) think she’s solely responsible.

      Thronetender: I’d much rather read raves about his performance than constant groaning and complaining that he’s not what he should be.

      There will be groaning and complaining, likely, no matter what. There are some folks who are too far down the hate highway to be able to do anything other than bitch, even if Euron turns out as well as Oberyn did. Fortunately, most of those people don’t post here, and those who may stop by, well, fuck ’em.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Ross,

      We found the script between the filming of the unaired pilot and the aired one IIRC, so we called it the “unaired pilot script” (we didn’t have the information on the Jon Arryn’s death scene back then). With the information we have now I would agree with based on the hints we have. Funny thing is that it’s still the the “unaired pilot script”. The only difference is that this unaired pilot script most likly wasn’t even used to film the original pilot. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    139. mau,

      I know a lot of people were dubious, to put it mildly, when he was cast, but I guess I haven’t read there enough to realize some still hate him.

        Quote  Reply

    140. No one picked up on the actually new info in the podcast: D&D just changed a major season 7 scene to a huge parade through Kings Landing (which will again be shot in Dubrovnik)?

      Dany taking the city anyone?

        Quote  Reply

    141. Charley:
      No one picked up on the actually new info in the podcast: D&D just changed a major season 7 scene to a huge parade through Kings Landing (which will again be shot in Dubrovnik)?

      I’m actually really shocked that watchers on the wall didn’t even bring season 7 up, guess it wasn’t really important enough.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Abyss,

      Ahhhh that would make a lot more sense! Perhaps the scene was dropped because Ned dreaming he was Brandon was too confusing, especially for the trailer!!

        Quote  Reply

    143. Matthew The Dragon knight: I’m actually really shocked that watchers on the wall didn’t even bring season 7 up, guess it wasn’t really important enough.

      I hope it is Dany and her army arriving in KL. Parading through the streets.

        Quote  Reply

    144. mau,

      Brienne has a very strong show following especially amongst female (or faux feminists) viewers plus her merchandise sales suggest she has some pull. Loras is certainly one of the more recognisable characters amongst the casual show watchers purely because of being ‘the gay guy’. It’s a shame he wasn’t developed into more than that. Considered weak and boring by whom exactly? Refrain from generalisations unless you have solid evidence. They weren’t my favourite ones but they did a good job of giving Brienne more character and making her more sympathetic.
      Obara´s monoloque was from the books, but completely missplaced so out of context.
      Deesensfan,

      Well, as James said “If I hadn’t seen such riches
      I could live with being poor” 😛 I feel like Loras that she is a lot more 2D in the show and that the major thing about her is that she’s a woman whereas the character has/should have a lot more depth to her than that. I find her struggle with the concept of honour,duty and being a knight far more interesting than the more shallow gender stuff. They seemed to be touching on that a little more at the end of last season but I have to admit the character has lost me a bit now as she’s not really got any warmth to her. But different strokes for different folks I guess.

        Quote  Reply

    145. TheTouchofFrost: Brienne has a very strong show following especially amongst female (or faux feminists) viewers

      Oh, Frosty. I’m pretty sure I know the answer, but I have to ask for clarification. By what you posted above, you weren’t saying women who really like Brienne are faux feminists, right? I’m almost certain the answer is, “no,” but the phrasing is a bit unclear…either that, or I’m letting the past few hours of my day creep in to my interpretation.

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    146. HotPinkLipstick,

      I condemn thee to…

      Hmmm…

      PalePinkLipstick.

      Of course, you can always demand trial by combat, but if you lose, I’ll condemn you to some horrid…orange lipstick.

      Dun Dun Duuuuuunnnnn.

      Fuck – if we don’t get a trailer by next Sunday, other than the whole rioting thing (and I admit, I’m curious to Abyss in his warpaint), I shudder to think the depths we’ll stoop to just to pass the time.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      HotPinkLipstick,

      I condemn thee to…

      Hmmm…

      PalePinkLipstick.

      Of course, you can always demand trial by combat, but if you lose, I’ll condemn you to some horrid…orange lipstick.

      Dun Dun Duuuuuunnnnn.

      Fuck – if we don’t get a trailer by next Sunday, other than the whole rioting thing (and I admit, I’m curious to Abyss in his warpaint), I shudder to think the depths we’ll stoop to just to pass the time.

      RIOT!!!!
      RIOT I SAY!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    148. Queen of the Throne Age,

      Yes, that could have been the case. For the the show, not for the trailer. The “scene” was so short in there that you could count the frames on your ten fingers. It was one of those flashes that you almost cant see if you watch them on normal speed.

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    149. Nymeria Warrior Queen:

      There will be groaning and complaining, likely, no matter what.There are some folks who are too far down the hate highway to be able to do anything other than bitch, even if Euron turns out as well as Oberyn did.Fortunately, most of those people don’t post here, and those who may stop by, well, fuck ’em.

      Well said, our own Karsi, Queen Nym! *applause*

        Quote  Reply

    150. Ygritte,

      Yeah, but you know, she’s dead… and, unlike him, she won’t come back as much as I like to. Beautiful picture with those 2, I see it now possible.

        Quote  Reply

    151. Shy Lady Dragon,

      What do you think the end game for Sam Tarley will be? Do you see him playing a more important role or having an insular kind of progression? He is the character George relates himself to the most, at least I’m pretty sure that’s what I read, so I could see him being an underdog that goes on to achieve some kind of greatness. I’m thinking that if they don’t bring Jon back, or at least not for awhile, his death could be the catalyst for Sam to come into his own and end up being a badass.

        Quote  Reply

    152. YgriTte,

      I do like Sam because of his being kind, intelligent, learned and the underdog. Being a reflection of GRRM himself, I suppose Sam’s fate would be good and he’ll survive and help a lot with defeating or understanding the WW (I remember a theory saying that the WW are invading the humans because they have been doublecrossed in a pact). Sam’s getting the needed knowledge was prepared in season 5, during his scene with Stannis. I am absolutely sure that Jon will come back soon, maybe even in the first episode, but I fear in the end he will turn his back to the realm of men and disappear in the everlasting winter. Maybe as the new leader of the WW. I certainly wouldn’t like that.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Pounce,

      Probably just a few days till they start teasing us with posters and teasers of the trailer, and once it’s out we’ll be officially off into the marketing campaign.

      My guess is: we won’t even get one frame of Snow

        Quote  Reply

    154. TheTouchofFrost:
      mau,

      Brienne has a verystrong show following especially amongst female (or faux feminists) viewers plus her merchandise sales suggest she has some pull.

      I’m not sure that what you just said makes much sense compared with your previous statements. You said that show Brienne is unlikable and now you are claiming that she has a strong following?

      Considered weak and boring by whom exactly? Refrain from generalisations unless you have solid evidence.

      What kind of evidence you want? Brienne’s chapters are hated in one way or another among hardcore book fans. You can see that on Reddit or at any forum about the books.

      Of course I can’t give you mathematical evidence. I can’t give you evidence that Tyrion is one of the most popular characters on the show among hardcore book and show fans, except comments on the internet.

      Obara´s monoloque was from the books, but completely missplaced so out of context.

      It wasn’t. I would like to quote Luka Nieto.

      It was taken almost line by line from “The Captain of Guards”, the first Dornish chapter, and the context was the same: Obara telling the story of how she met his father in order to make the point that she will always choose the path of war. And spouting this exposition to someone who damn well knows about it already (Doran in the books, Ellaria in the show)

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    155. I only need a teaser today, even if it’s like 12 seconds of the trailer I don’t care. Just don’t make me wait another week with empty pockets.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Oh no. I’m not going to besmirch a whole gender! I just think those who hold her up as a feminist icon are kind of missing the point of her character. Her gender is something that shouldn’t be of consequence. To praise her solely for being female is coming from a not so different place as derising (is that a word?!) her for it. So yeah, both are fans of her for different reasons.

      Alex G,

      Quite possibly. She’s good actress . I just wish she got chance to show it more with the Brienne character. I think a lot of people like her just because she has a more unconventional look about her which I don’t think is fair as it detracts from the fact she’s quite talented.

        Quote  Reply

    157. mau,

      I said , I don’t find her show incarnation likeable. I don’t speak for everyone who watches the show. She has a very healthy following. Seperating one’s opinion from fact is something that really should be applied more in the world at large!

      I want more evidence than a few moaners on a forum. If you think a vocal minority on Reddit accounts for the vast majority of people who’ve read the book then you’re being a bit naive. Even by your description of them being ‘hardcore’ suggests that they are certainly not the average reader. Get out a bit, the intenet is awesome but talking to people, looking at how much merchandise is based around him in shops and how he has made appearances in other areas of popular culture shows his popularity.

      It was missplaced because she just started monologuing after an unrelated question. The book set her up for that as it related to the topic/theme being discussed and the transition to the topic was more natural. The show did not which is why it came off as being so random and was disliked by some. It was all about the execution.

        Quote  Reply

    158. YgriTte,

      As to Samwell Tarly, his family has Valyrian steel, which can kill White Walkers. I think part of Sam’s story is to get that sword north, and from there, be more of a hero than he thought he could. Then possibly die horribly, or not. You never can tell.

      I am happy to talk about Brienne. Love her, book and show. Brienne’s chapters are a lot of internal monologue which is difficult to translate on screen. I absolutely loved her scene with Pod talking about Renly. When Pod is treating her with respect and interested in her, she is open. It’s the moment he begins to pity her that she snaps at him, which is SO Brienne in the book, open in her head, and defensive when she believes she’s being mocked.

      I think Gwendoline Christie does an amazing job with her. The stoic fury of the melee, the gutwrenching agony of Renly’s death, and every single scene she had with NCW was incredible. Their Oathkeeper goodbye scene was show only, but just fantastic.

        Quote  Reply

    159. HotPinkLipstick,

      I love Brienne as well (and I’m glad there is this amazing actress who is Gwendoline to play her part). That’s a reason I simply couldn’t consider AFFC boring. For me, travelling “with” Brienne, following what she sees, thinks and experiences was a treat. And the end made me suffer, also because Catelyn used to appreciate Brienne and trust her. I rather liked Catelyn, although she was not one of my favourites. I simply can’t say which would be worse: to see Brienne killed or betraying Jaime. I’m afraid one of these two will happen.
      If you feel talking about Brienne, you can always count on me to join your conversation. Gods, I hope this doesn’t sound like a threat 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    160. Grail King:
      I’ve seen Tamzin Merchant in only two shows, the Tudors and Camelot, she was OK in Tudors not great, not bad just OK; but I thought she was a bad choice for Guenevere in Camelot I don’t think Gwen would be a blond, dark hair maybe Pictish but not blond .

      Ehle would had been a good Cat, but I’m happy with MF so to me it would be a win win.

      You never saw her in Camelot as she wasn’t in it.

      Tamsin Egerton played Guinevere.

        Quote  Reply

    161. El-Bobbie,

      Chemistry is one part of it, but hopefuly it will turn out to be be good and not absolutely boring scenes. Hopefully not romantic one aswell. Just so you know that photo you posted is nor original waschanged by someone. Don’t know why, but this one is real.

      http://casaharington.tumblr.com/post/114927766262/kit-harington-and-emilia-clarke-for-rolling-stone

      http://yourfallenstar.tumblr.com/post/18778568367/allyouwanted-alfie-allen-lena-headey-kit

        Quote  Reply

    162. I think the photo is real, if you look closely at a few things. They just did not release this photo originally for some reason. They have great chemistry.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Boudica,

      On the second thought yes it looks fairly real but really close to other one.Nobody ever questioned their chemistry. I have to show this to me girlfriend,she loves them.

        Quote  Reply

    164. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Oh there are parts of all the books I found painfully boring, but I read them all at once and don’t bother differentiating one from the other. I can say every chapter of Dany wandering in Essos bored me, and the diarrhea. Also bored by the Greyjoys and sometimes they felt like it was a reality show competition on who could be worse, Euron or Victarion. I also found Arianne’s machinations to be silly and read like a YA novel.

      At the same time, I recognize that those were the parts that other people loved. We all come at fiction from different personal backgrounds, so we identify with different things. So, liking and thinking boring are subjective. It’s when we think our subjective opinions are objective facts that reasoned discourse goes to shit. I often avoid those discussions with people who can’t separate the two, or when I think I’ve lost that perspective.

      But back from my tangent, I never watched Friday Night Lights, but I love this article.
      http://www.salon.com/2013/05/05/the_julie_taylor_test_how_to_tell_if_a_tv_actor_is_bad/

      I think Gwendoline Christie’s Brienne of Tarth passes the Julie Taylor test with flying colors. There is so much of the unsaid in her eyes and her expressions.

      But if you’re expecting the character of Brienne to monologue all her internal thoughts, that doesn’t happen in the show, and would probably suck if it did.

      So, that’s why I love GC and find Emilia Clarke just barely passable.

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    165. jentario:
      Pounce,

      Probably just a few days till they start teasing us with posters and teasers of the trailer, and once it’s out we’ll be officially off into the marketing campaign.

      My guess is: we won’t even get one frame of Snow

      Marketing started with the House teasers.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Shy Lady Dragon,

      My twenty-something feminist daughter and I strongly agree! We love Brienne’s chapters in AFFC and love Gwendoline. Her work with NCW in Season 3 was amazing. We can only hope that the show will give her strong scenes in the remaining seasons. I dread the books’ resolution to her love/duty/honor dilemma — so many vows!

        Quote  Reply

    167. Thronetender: LOL*this*

      Her Warriorship does have a way of cutting to the bottom line.

      Been watching an old (well 2003) adaptation of “The Mayor of Casterbridge” this aft with Ciaran Hinds (Mance) in the title role, Maggi the Frog as his step-daughter, the Blackfish as her real father and Walder Frey as someone whose name I can’t remember. James Purefroy and Polly Walker from ‘Rome’ were in it too.

      I’ve read the above article and hope to listen to the podcast properly when I have a little more free time. I’d heard that Jennifer Ehle was concerned about being away from a young family as someone mentioned up-thread – so she didn’t take up the part of Cat for the series. I’d also heard that Gillian Anderson had declined a part (possibly Cat) because her younger children were VERY young when GoT debuted. I think either of them could have carried the part off – I did like Michelle Fairley though.

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    168. HotPinkLipstick,

      Very interesting article. I don’t watch any of those shows (except for Mad Men), but I got the point. Yes, Gwendoline would pass with big grades.
      For me, the boring part was Meereen, because I couldn’t care for the characters – characters are very important to me, both in books and on screen. I read the articles on the Meereenese Blot site, which had been recommended by someone on WOTW, and recognized some fine narrative points. But seeing the value of something doesn’t always mean to like it! When dear sweet Drogon took his “mother”‘ away I felt relieved. I am interested in the Dothraki because I liked them in the first book/ season.

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    169. Jack Bauer 24: Marketing started with the House teasers.

      February first week we got little to nothing on game of Thrones, and next month we will be almost a month away from Season 6, well two XD all we have is a promo poster of Jon snow November, The teaser trailer on December, and the House teasers for January. what’s next ? and what else will they send out ?

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    170. I agree with everyone, the unaired pilot should be a mandatory extra included with the complete unabridged GoT collector’s edition with all seasons.

      OT: I was watching “The Magicians” this week and was wondering who the gorgeous British actress was, then realized it was Esme; damn forgot how beautiful she is, she handled her acting quite well too.

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    171. Lonely Cat,

      I am happy for you, m’lady! If I had had children, I would have liked to have an adult daughter with the same taste in books, films and characters as myself.
      I think Brienne and Jaime will meet again, but the multitude of vows is a sad problem to both Jaime and her. I try to remember that I should expect the worst, so that I might have pleasant surprises. Anyway, my Brienne and Jaime figures stay together near my computer and no harm will touch them (not even my cat, because he’s not allowed on my desk).

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    172. Laura:
      YOU GUYS!

      I am trying to not think of Game of Thrones this weekend by immersing myself in watching all the Oscar nominated films but it’s not working. I need this trailer in my life!! I am going to go ahead and call the trailer post as the first one here with over 1000 comments. We will be dissecting it for days.

      Any recs on something to binge-watch for the next 78 days? Here are some shows I’ve never seen:Hannibal, Vikings, Narcos, Bloodline, Outlander, Empire, The 100, Scandal, Fargo, The IT Crowd, I really love British TV – my faves being Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes, Being Human, Fresh Meat, Peep Show, Catastrophe, Pulling, Hex, My Mad Fat Diary, Happy Valley, Broadchurch, I could go on… so if you know any great British shows to recommend, as we hear about far too few of them here in the U.S., please pass them on. I need something to pass time over the next 2.5 months!

      Stay strong everyone – we will be seeing SOMETHING GoT-related in the next few weeks.

      Watch Fargo season 2, one of my favorite shows from last year besides game of Thrones season 5 and better call saul. Brilliant acting, directing, an engaging story and it has some brilliant use of music.

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    173. Also The Directors Guild awards are tonight, David Nutter is being Nominated for Dramatic series For Game of Thrones episode Mother’s Mercy.

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    174. Laura,

      Vikings and fargo are brillant. You can watch utopía too, great british series. And i dont know… the sopranos, the wire, boardwalk empire, rome, carnivale, band of brothers, deadwood, Black sails, twin peaks, 12 monkeys all worth of seeing 😉

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    175. Laura,

      Carnivale, Vikings and Twin Peaks are great. If you like British series and want to see many actors from GOT, watch Ripper Street, set on East End London immediately after the time of Jack the Ripper. Jerome Flynn is one of the main actors.
      BTW, great avatar, I have meant to tell it to you for a long time.

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    176. Laura,

      From your list, I’d recommend Fargo, Vikings and Outlander.

      I’d also recommend Episodes (with Tamsin Greig from Black Books) and Friday Night Dinner (also with her, OK, I’m obsessed with her 🙂 ), both comedies and hilarious.

      I liked the first three seasons of Luther with Idris Elba and I also highly recommend Penny Dreadful, oh, and Unforgotten was quite good.

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    177. Matthew The Dragon knight: February first week we got little to nothing on game of Thrones, and next month we will be almost a month away from Season 6, well two XD all we have is a promo poster of Jon snow November, The teaser trailer on December, and the House teasers for January. what’s next ? and what else will they send out ?

      I’m still counting on a trailer next weekend. Once we get into next month then Thrones will be right around the corner. Starting in March we can actually say “Next month GoT premieres” 🙂

      Matthew The Dragon knight:
      Also The Directors Guild awards are tonight, David Nutter is being Nominated for Dramatic series For Game of Thrones episode Mother’s Mercy.

      Yeah I’m looking forward to it. Really hoping Nutter wins!

      Laura:
      YOU GUYS!

      I am trying to not think of Game of Thrones this weekend by immersing myself in watching all the Oscar nominated films but it’s not working. I need this trailer in my life!! I am going to go ahead and call the trailer post as the first one here with over 1000 comments. We will be dissecting it for days.

      Any recs on something to binge-watch for the next 78 days? Here are some shows I’ve never seen:Hannibal, Vikings, Narcos, Bloodline, Outlander, Empire, The 100, Scandal, Fargo, The IT Crowd. I really love British TV – my faves being Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes, Being Human, Fresh Meat, Peep Show, Catastrophe, Pulling, Hex, My Mad Fat Diary, Happy Valley (just found out season 2 starts Tuesday – yay!), Broadchurch, I could go on… so if you know any great British shows to recommend, as we hear about far too few of them here in the U.S., please pass them on. I need something to pass time over the next 2.5 months!

      Stay strong everyone – we will be seeing SOMETHING GoT-related in the next few weeks.

      Like Matthew, I’d also recommend Fargo. The other shows on your list that I’ve seen and enjoyed are Hannibal, Vikings, Bloodline, Narcos (was ok), Outlander (first half was good). Black Sails Season 3 is currently airing and episode 3 is tonight. That’s my favorite show right now. Better Call Saul returns on the 15th and Vikings returns on the 18th and Vinyl premieres the 14th, so that is going to be a good week for TV 🙂 I’m also watching The Magicians which is ok so far, but nothing spectacular. The Expanse Season 1 just had its finale this week and that was good. American Crime Story: The People vs OJ Simpson just premiered on FX this past Tuesday and that was really good. Also, FX’s The Americans is pretty good. Season 4 premiere premieres next month. I’m also watching a show called Billions which airs Sunday nights on Showtime. Enjoying that one so far.

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    178. Also, The Knick and Banshee are both really good. Both are on Cinemax. Season 2 of The Knick ended in Decmenber and the fourth and final season of Banshee premieres April 1st. Same month as GoT :)…oh and Showtime’s Penny Dreadful is really good. Season 3 premieres a week after GoT on May 1st. I watch GoT, then Silicon Veep, and then Penny Dreadful Sunday nights in Spring 🙂

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    179. Jack Bauer 24,

      I must admit Billions really surprised me. Although I have some problems with the vocabulary of the financial sector and with Damian Lewis (his face just looks so punchable), I find it very captivating.

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    180. Laura:
      Matthew The Dragon knight,

      Thanks Matthew! Honestly, Breaking Bad is one of my favorites of all time and I watched the 1st episode of Better Call Saul last year and then never picked it back up so that is a great rec. Let me ask you this: could I watch Fargo season 2 without having watched season 1? I know it’s an anthology series so it’s not directly related but would I miss out on anything if I skip S1 altogether?

      Well you can pretty much watch season 2 all by itself, but their are some characters that are in the first series that appear in the second, season 2 is pretty much a prequel. By the end of season 2 you can make the connection to the first season.

      Jack Bauer 24: I’m still counting on a trailer next weekend. Once we get into next month then Thrones will be right around the corner. Starting in March we can actually say “Next month GoT premieres”

      Yeah I’m looking forward to it. Really hoping Nutter wins!

      Like Matthew, I’d also recommend Fargo. The other shows on your list that I’ve seen and enjoyed are Hannibal, Vikings, Bloodline, Narcos (was ok), Outlander (first half was good).Black Sails Season 3 is currently airing and episode 3 is tonight. That’s my favorite show right now. Better Call Saul returns on the 15th and Vikings returns on the 18th and Vinyl premieres the 14th, so that is going to be a good week for TV I’m also watching The Magicians which is ok so far, but nothing spectacular. The Expanse Season 1 just had its finale this week and that was good. American Crime Story: The People vs OJ Simpson just premiered on FX this past Tuesday and that was really good. Also, FX’s The Americans is pretty good. Season 4 premiere premieres next month. I’m also watching a show called Billions which airs Sunday nights on Showtime. Enjoying that one so far.

      I’m hoping so as well, a surprise trailer wouldn’t be bad either. a few more hours until we are down to day 77. I wonder if they will release another promo poster, or maybe they will just stick with the jon snow one.

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    181. Shy Lady Dragon:
      Dame of Mercia,

      I love The Mayor of Casterbridge and “the Ciaran Hinds adaptation” (as I think of it) is wonderful. I’d like to rewatch it.

      I don’t know where you are based Shy Lady. I’m in the UK and the Drama channel here quite regularly shows “oldie goldies” (and some “oldie mouldies” but that’s a matter of taste). That’s where I saw ‘The Mayor of Casterbridge’ today and they had the Jennifer Ehle ‘Pride and Prejudice’ on quite recently. Of course one has to give new shows a chance too.

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    182. Jack Bauer 24,

      Also, i’m Catching up to black sails, the first season is kind of a drag, but its interesting. I love pirates so I’m going full force on this series.

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    183. Dame of Mercia,

      This Drama channel sounds great, I wish I were in the UK! I’m in Romania. I have HBO and Cinemax and I own many films and series (“the Ehle-Firth” Pride and Prejudice among them). I have access to some sites where I can watch several series. Fortunately, I have just found the above referred Mayor and I’m going to watch.

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    184. HotPinkLipstick: Also bored by the Greyjoys and sometimes they felt like it was a reality show competition on who could be worse, Euron or Victarion. I also found Arianne’s machinations to be silly and read like a YA novel.

      Indeed, there were many a “why can’t we all get along” posts in the “Dorne vs. Iron Islands: which Sucked more?” flame wars 10 years ago that stressed that, really, both parts sucked! (Then, after general agreement, you’d get the: “Yes, X and Y both sucked: but X sucked more” and the fire re-ignited!)

      TheTouchofFrost: Loras is certainly one of the more recognisable characters amongst the casual show watchers purely because of being ‘the gay guy’. It’s a shame he wasn’t developed into more than that.

      Why should he have been? Loras is a non-developed tertiary character in the books and his lack of development there has no effect on the story. (I am at a loss for what we know about the character other than that he’s gay, actually.) He’s elevated to a weakly-developed secondary character on TV: and he only reaches that on TV because his sexuality becomes an important plot-point on the show. It was a convenient device to show the audience audience a conflict with no “good guys”: yes, the Sparrow and his religious wingnuts are enemies of the Lannisters (!hooray!), but they are every bit as vile and malicious as their real-life counterparts (!booo!).

      There is a question of where this will be going, of course: my bet is that the Sparrow’s fanaticism is partially a setup for intolerance of other religions (which already comes up in the books); that, coupled with the R’hllorites intolerance of other other religions, is going to be a serious hurdle for Jon & Daeny to overcome when trying to unite people against the White Walkers.

      All of that stated, I suspect that neither Loras nor Brienne are in the short list of characters who’s names most viewers remember!

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    185. Laura:
      Ooh thanks for the recs everyone! Some I’ve never even heard of… have to check out this Tamsin Greig person! Oh and yes, I love Luther (except for the last mini-season. Even Rose Leslie couldn’t save it) and The Americans (back in a month!) I did watch the OJ thing and it was actually decent. The anthology format is perfect for Murphy because he’s infamous for 1-2 good seasons and then his shows going down the toilet. As I get older, I find myself much less willing to devote precious time to shitty TV so I have a 3 strikes you’re out rule now. That rule was instituted after I watched the whole first season of “The Following” (the Kevin Bacon/James Purefoy serial killer show) even though I knew it was terrible after a few episodes. Although for some reason I am still sticking with The Walking Dead and I don’t know why. I feel like I never find anyone who really loves that show. It’s more like “well, I’ve stuck with it for X amount of seasons, I can’t give up now!”

      Speaking of, Petra I miss your “what else to watch if you like Game of Thrones” style posts.

      Shy Lady Dragon, thank you so much! I bought it as a shirt off redbubble back when there wasn’t a lot of GoT merch, and even fewer Arya-only things. I don’t see them there anymore, but if you search him on google, you can see all of our Stark wolves! They’re all on row 1 except Bran, he’s down on row 4

      https://www.google.com/search?q=brian+j.+smith+game+of+thrones&biw=1280&bih=705&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiZhZLE4uPKAhUEyGMKHfW2AkkQ_AUIBygB

      I stuck with The Following until the bitter end lol, but that show really went to shit. Same with American Horror Story. I think it has declined every year with this past seasons Hotel being an abomination. I watch a lot of TV as you can tell haha and some other shows I’m watching that I would put in the mediocre category are Gotham and Supergirl. I still watch NBC’s The Blacklist as well. One of my all time favs is The Wire, so if you haven’t seen it definitely check it out. All episodes are available on HBO GO. Another fav of mine that ended last year is FX’s Justified. Brilliant series that was. I also watch FX’s Tyrant which is coming back for a third season later this year. And of course I watch TWD, but that has really declined for me. I’d rank the seasons 2-1-4-5-3. Really didn’t care for Woodbury in Season 3 and Season 6 has been atrocious so far. Hoping the second half can salvage this season. Oh, and Fear The Walking Dead was just horrible. I really don’t like quitting shows (see The Following lol), but I’m thinking about not bothering with FTWD Season 2. It premieres in April as well and will be going head to head with GoT Sunday nights lol. Bad move on their part. If I do watch it will obviously be the following day after GoT.

      Matthew The Dragon knight:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Also, i’m Catching up to black sails, the first season is kind of a drag, but its interesting. I love pirates so I’m going full force on this series.

      The second season is where it really picks up and never looks back. It transitions from good to brilliant and Season 3 has been off to a nice start 🙂

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    186. Jack Bauer 24: I’m still counting on a trailer next weekend. Once we get into next month then Thrones will be right around the corner

      True, but as this is an established series (and a very popular one), and as the series got a lot of free publicity over it’s offseason from various awards, we should expect the effort to be even lower than before. The show already has the “trailer” for which nearly every other series on TV would kill to have: the first five seasons. At this point, people just need to know when it starts again: trailers are not going to “sell” anybody on the show anymore, and lack of trailers are not going to cause the accumulated audience to dissipate.

      (And as I have done for the prior two seasons, I will remind people once again about Return of the King. That film had only one short trailer that came out only a few weeks before the movie did. Tolkien fans warned of dire consequences: and either the film should have sold more tickets than Titanic OR there was absolutely zero purpose in trailers at that point. I’ll let you guess which hypothesis I favor…. 😎 )

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    187. Laura:
      I love Luther (except for the last mini-season. Even Rose Leslie couldn’t save it)

      Sadly, I have to agree. Without Alice it just wasn’t up to previous seasons…
      Oh but then, Ruth Wilson is fantastic in The Affair 🙂

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    188. Wimsey,
      10 years ago? AFFC was 2006? Damn, some characters haven’t been on page for 10 years? I’ve been waiting for the trailer for half a month (well, three weeks) and I’m bored already.

      On that note: how about if the trailer shows up… and then is just a black title card with the sentence, ‘Actually, we’ve decided to wait with the next season until after George has written the next book. So long, suckers!’ ?

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    189. Yaga: AFFC was 2006?

      2005, actually: I rounded off! And that followed a 5 year hiatus after we had been getting novels every couple of years. I actually don’t remember when the “flame-war” abated, but I seem to remember that it was early 2006 when I stopped paying attention. For all I know it continued for another few years!

      Yaga: ‘Actually, we’ve decided to wait with the next season until after George has written the next book. So long, suckers!’ ?

      I suspect that half the audience then would ask: “book? what book?” 😀

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    190. Wimsey: True, but as this is an established series (and a very popular one), and as the series got a lot of free publicity over it’s offseason from various awards, we should expect the effort to be even lower than before.The show already has the “trailer” for which nearly every other series on TV would kill to have: the first five seasons.At this point, people just need to know when it starts again: trailers are not going to “sell” anybody on the show anymore, and lack of trailers are not going to cause the accumulated audience to dissipate.

      (And as I have done for the prior two seasons, I will remind people once again about Return of the King.That film had only one short trailer that came out only a few weeks before the movie did.Tolkien fans warned of dire consequences: and either the film should have sold more tickets than Titanic OR there was absolutely zero purpose in trailers at that point.I’ll let you guess which hypothesis I favor…. )

      such a mood killer :/
      well I’ll still be waiting for a trailer to arise, whether it comes or not.
      Trailer this month.

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    191. Bloodline doesn’t seem to get the press it should. Ben Mendolsohn is amazing in it. I was hooked after the first episode. With “blood” in the title, people might think it’s a supernatural show, but it’s not. And it is amazing. I found it hard to binge because I wanted to think about each episode and parse it, but loved rushing to the next as well.

      So sorry you suffered through the following and are still watching the “Rick is always right” zombie show.

      I’m actually watching re-runs of Soap. I am so old.

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    192. I’m in the same boat. I’m looking for a show to watch, especially because I woke up today with a cold and will be in bed at least till Monday. So I wanna binge watch something till the Superbowl tomorrow.

      I just finished season one of the last kingdom.
      I have seen Vikings is amazing Laura, you should watch it.
      Narcos almost done.
      Watched Rome sopranos the wire madmen spartacus etc

      I wanna see black sails and Fargo but Shomi (which is like net flkix) but Canadian only has season 1 of both.. Which is such a tease!!

      Any recommendations that may have more than two seasons on Shomi or net flix????

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    193. Dame of Mercia: Been watching an old (well 2003) adaptation of “The Mayor of Casterbridge” this aft with Ciaran Hinds (Mance) in the title role, Maggi the Frog as his step-daughter, the Blackfish as her real father and Walder Frey as someone whose name I can’t remember. James Purefroy and Polly Walker from ‘Rome’ were in it too.

      I’ll have to find that one – that’s a lot of GoT cast there. Early in the off-season someone on here recommended “Ripper Street.” I wasn’t sure I wanted to watch a series that took place in Victorian/Jack the Ripper era London, but I loved it, and gurgled at the tv like a child seeing Big Bird whenever one of the GoT cast members appeared, and there were lots of them.

      Jerome Flynn/Bronn was a main cast member, in every episode in a major way, and he was wonderful! Benjen/Joseph Mawle was in a few episodes, not as a mysterious hero but as a tawdry thief; Ser Barriston/ Ian McElhinney played an evil financier; even Dean-Charles Chapman was in an episode as a sinister teen-aged pimp and he was great – no wide-eyed Tommen innocence. Something to do for the next, what?, 78 days.

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    194. I really don’t get the lack of love for Emilia’s acting. During the scenes of her on the throne glaring down at Jorah and Tyrion, I thought she was the epitome of an outraged but coldly calculating Queen. From the beginning as a confused, abused young girl, convincing the whole Dothraki horde that she was Khaleesi, to the scenes in the Tower of the Undying, every scene with either Dario, and especially the scenes where she was bargaining for the Unsullied, she was perfect. Dracarys, indeed.

      I took a look at a photo of Tamzin; my first reaction was “Oh hell no.” No aspersions on her acting or looks, but she is not Daenerys Stormborn. Emilia IS. and will be. She looks stunning in that white wig and adorable without it. She had a small part in the movie “Dom Hemingway,” with Jude Law. She sang. She was totally convincing as a disillusioned daughter trying to do the best for her little son. I’d watch anything that she’s in. So … take that, you naysayers, Emilia is ok with me.

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    195. Irishton:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Yes I didn’t see it on the home page ,what do you think

      It was from a year ago, so it wouldn’t show up on the home page.
      I have no reason to think it isn’t legit, if for no other reason than I feel certain it would have been debunked by now, were it no genuine. I found it quite interesting to see his original plans and note how much changed.

      TheTouchofFrost,

      My apologies. I knew I knew better.

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    196. Wimsey,

      Well, for me it’s because it was the opportunity to develop a gay character where being gay isn’t the main characteristic. I really enjoyed the Kingsguard stuff in the book and the exchanges between him and Jaime. I also thought him joining because of Renly’s death and the love he bore him was a nice departure from the common stereotype of gay guys being sexually driven…which his show counterpart jumped into both feet first! Does watching shows become a joyless experience for you as you only ever seem to view them in their structural form?
      I’m still not convinced this big team up against the Whitewalkers is going to happen. Bringing everything together like that could prove far too unwieldly. Not too sure but if I had to guess, I think the end game will split off into two and be Jon and the North facing off against the WW and Dany’s attempt to take the Throne. The song of Ice and Fire is sung.
      Again , I sense you underestimate the show’s viewers. They are both quite distinctive from others (amongst the long list of dark-haired bearded blokes) so more likely to have been noted. Sometimes , I think you think that the only characters the viewers are capable of remembering are Wimsey’s Fab Five!

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    197. Thronetender,

      If you don’t have problems with Emilia’s acting, that’s great. Doesn’t make those who do naysayers 🙂
      My problem is that I can see her acting. Everything comes across as exerted and sometimes stilted. And the scenes in High Valyrian in which she is all commanding are amongst the worst, IMO. But I’m over it and just live with it. Still, in Nina Gold I trust (93% of the time) 🙂

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    198. Thronetender,

      It is popular thing to hate Emilia’s acting for no reason, just as it was popular to hate Elijah Wood and Daniel Radcliffe.

      Argument that she isnot showing her emotions doesn’t make any sense to me , because it is simply not true.

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    199. TheTouchofFrost: It was missplaced because she just started monologuing after an unrelated question. The book set her up for that as it related to the topic/theme being discussed and the transition to the topic was more natural. The show did not which is why it came off as being so random and was disliked by some. It was all about the execution.

      I agree insofar as one sentence to bridge between the question (which I don’t think was necessarily unrelated, if I’m remembering the question correctly…something like “are you with me?”) and Obara’s monologue would have fixed the problem of Obara’s monologue seeming to kind of come out of nowhere. A simple, “Am I with you,” delivered as a rhetorical question before she launched into the monologue, would have, I think, solved the issue.

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    200. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I’m not sure why it needed to be done then as we were just being introduced to the characters. Could have been explored further in the jail scenes instead of/as well as the poison and boobs (as lovely as they were). Would have made sense that they’d be sat there reminsicing and talking to Bronn who wouldn’t have known anything about their past. Instead she sat there meditating…did we ever find out why she meditated so much?!

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    201. TheTouchofFrost:
      the common stereotype of gay guys being sexually driven…which his show counterpart jumped into both feet first!

      You say that as if Loras was some sexual predator who fucks everything that comes by. After Renly he only sleeps with one guy, Olyvar. I really have a hard time understanding why Loras‘ being portrayed as a sexually active gay man is bothering you so much. That’s what people do, keep on living, even after their loved ones die. I don’t need some Holy Gay Loras with an abstinent-until-all-eternity-because-of-a-broken-heart attitude. What message would that be? Look how strong he is to be able to suppress his sexuality, what a role model for all those clichéd gay people who have sex.

      I also can’t blame the showrunners to make Loras‘ sexuality relevant for other plot points. Being gay and heir to a title in such a heteronormative society is a political issue and it becomes even more of an issue if suddenly the moral climate changes for the worse. And with all the right wing movements on the rise all over Europe, this should be a reminder how fast things can change. So, personally, I can relate to the character and I am looking forward to seeing what will happen to him in S6.

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    202. Wylie,

      I agree. And also I don’t think that Lorass needs to be a three dimensional character. He is minor character who is driving a plot forward, sometimes, and that is enough.

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    203. Wylie: If you don’t have problems with Emilia’s acting, that’s great. Doesn’t make those who do naysayers

      There was neither angry intent nor animosity in my use of that term. I’m on here for the fun of it, plus the learning and info that are many times a bonus. But if the question was posed “Do you think Emilia’s acting in portrayal of Daenerys Targaryan is Very Good to Excellent?” my answer would be yes/yay and yours and some others on here would say no/nay. Right? By that criteria, you would be naysayers. That’s all, and it’s fine. No snark intended, really. This is a forum for all to post opinions. That’s what makes it interesting.

      But while I’m on this same soapbox, I think Kit’s acting is very good to excellent as well; imho I think all the kids on the show should be paid what they are worth, and not trampled on so that a network can save some money, going on the assumption that that is in part what’s happening. If the networks don’t spend millions for 30 seconds on Super Bowl, so much the better. We can wait. Better to throw some of that extra cash the way of the actors.

      I don’t pretend to know any of the logistics or strategies in running a network; maybe lauding an actor overmuch turns them into insufferable bores and affects the acting negatively. But maybe offering them no resource in the form of encouragement, compensation and recognition, with the idea of keeping them humble and pliant has a negative effect as well. We can’t have an overly humble Azor Ahai, now can we?

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    204. TheTouchofFrost,

      I didn’t have a problem with it being in that scene, as I thought it made sense for it to be there precisely because we were being introduced to them. However, I still think it could have been much more successful with an easy fix. As for why she meditates so much…who knows. It seems like Nymeria and Tyene are constantly bickering, so maybe she meditates so much to prevent herself from lobbing a spear into one of their heads?

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    205. Thronetender,

      Oh, I know you weren’t maliciously attacking anyone with the naysayer, neither was I in my reply, hence the smiley face. But naysayer means that someone is constantly negative and I have only few gripes with the show, so I felt the need to clarify. No harm done. 🙂

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    206. Wylie: Oh, I know you weren’t maliciously attacking anyone with the naysayer, neither was I in my reply, hence the smiley face. But naysayer means that someone is constantly negative and I have only few gripes with the show, so I felt the need to clarify. No harm done.

      Nicely put, and yeah, I got the smiley. 🙂 I wasn’t aiming that specifically at you, Wylie, but I’ve been reading a lot of negativity on that subject lately, and thought I’d throw in my 2 cents.

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    207. Wylie,

      I didn’t make him out that way at all, that’s just what you read into what I said. He was thrown into a sexual situation very soon after his love had died. This was a complete departure from the books where he joins the abstinent (well in theory) Kingsguard. That’s pretty much a complete flip in his character. There’s a bit of a difference between abstinent until eternity and banging a man-whore a month or so after the death of the love of your life. It didn’t happen with Jon and it took Dany a couple of seasons to have a love interest again after Drogo. You seem to be mixing up sexuality (sexual desires) with emotion. If you could go out and plough someone so soon after someone you deeply loved died then fair play but I imagine most people would find it very difficult to do so. I’m not sure why a gay man being depicted as being in love bothers you so much?
      I’ve no issue with it being used as a plot point but does the only plot he has have to revolve solely around his sexuality? Could he have not been implimented with Renly and his sister without the introduction of Olyvar? Then the Loras who cares deeply for his sister and his honour of the books could have been more faithfully adapted and his imprisonment presented as being even more unjust. Yes, interesting things are happening round him with regard to the rise of the Sparrows but why can’t we have a more layered character involved in them?

      mau,

      Why are you so against a little more depth for minor characters?! It’s not as if it requires any more time or much more effort. Would hardly say he’s driving a plot either just being dragged along with it.

        Quote  Reply

    208. On the note of Daenerys and Emilia, while I think her performance has been uneven, I think that character would be an absolute bitch to portray. In fact, I’m trying to think of actors who, at least at that age, could have pulled her off and been consistently excellent. The couple who come to mind (women like Cate Blanchett and Kate Winslet…both women who, in my opinion, seemed to be able to convincingly portray any type of character pretty much out of the womb), while both, imo, beautiful women, would likely not have been considered beautiful enough. I’m sure there are a couple of others, but actors who are that good when they’re that young are few and far between.

        Quote  Reply

    209. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Fair enough. I think the introduction to them via their actions would have built towards revealing that monologue later. But it could have been set up much better even in that scene.
      Just thought it was odd as in the books she’s the angry belligerent one and her sisters are much more laid back. Then again, Tyene was meant ot be the sweet, saintly one but ended up being the one who got her love pillows out at the drop of a hat! They didn’t really define their personalities very clearly in what we got of them last season.

        Quote  Reply

    210. http://www.vulture.com/2015/05/game-of-thrones-finn-jones-on-what-he-wants-for-loras.html

      “The reason Loras’s sexuality is more subtle in the books is because Loras is seen through the eyes of Sansa, as this capable, confident, gallant knight. Which he is, but that’s his public persona. The show is able to go behind doors and see how Loras behaves in his private life. I’m happy with this story line, because it’s a lot better story than just going off to Dragonstone! And it keeps everything more concise, gives it focus, keeps everyone in one place. In the books, Loras is the youngest of the brothers, but on the show, he’s the heir to Highgarden. So what the show is doing, what it seems like they’re doing, is they’ve amalgamated all three Tyrell brothers, and when you do that, Loras needs to stay in King’s Landing. He can’t go off to war.”

      -Finn Jones

        Quote  Reply

    211. TheTouchofFrost: They didn’t really define their personalities very clearly in what we got of them last season.

      That was my biggest issue with them last season. I know minutes were precious, but I feel as though if we’d had just a few more minutes with them, many of the “not really gelling” issues could have been avoided.

      This probably doesn’t need to be under a spoiler code, but since it is about differences between the show and the books, I’ll throw it under one, anyway

      I can see why they made a lot of the choices they made, like cutting Arianne (although I have to admit my general bias against that character) and giving some of her what she does in the books to Ellaria, but they didn’t work as well as I would have liked them to.

      I also really wish we could have gotten something…anything…out of Nymeria (I don’t think I need to state my bias for any of the Nymerias…:) )

        Quote  Reply

    212. TheTouchofFrost:
      Wylie,

      mau,
      Why are you so against a little more depth for minor characters?! It’s not as if it requires any more time or much more effort. Would hardly say he’s driving a plot either just being dragged along with it.

      You can’t give more depth to every minor character. Many of them have more depth in the show than in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    213. TheTouchofFrost: Well, for me it’s because it was the opportunity to develop a gay character where being gay isn’t the main characteristic.

      I don’t know if what follows will be entirely apropos to the point you were trying to make, but your comment immediately reminded me of an interview of the writer, Annie Proulx, that I read last year. She is the author of the prizewinning story “Brokeback Mountain,” on which the movie by the same name was based. The interview was published in “the Paris Review,” titled “Annie Proulx, The Art of Fiction No. 199” by
      Christopher Cox. It’s easy to Google. Her comments on her purpose in writing the story and the reaction to it are excellent. It’s a long interview; the remarks on Brokeback are about 2/3 down. Well worth the read, though, especially for aspiring writers – you will find some worthy comments on the craft of writing and the worth of composing a well-crafted sentence.

      From the interview:
      “Oh, yeah. In Wyoming they won’t read it. A large section of the population is still outraged. But that’s not where the problem was. I’m used to that response from people here, who generally do not like the way I write. But the problem has come since the film. So many people have completely misunderstood the story. I think it’s important to leave spaces in a story for readers to fill in from their own experience, but unfortunately the audience that “Brokeback” reached most strongly have powerful fantasy lives. And one of the reasons we keep the gates locked here is that a lot of men have decided that the story should have had a happy ending. They can’t bear the way it ends—they just can’t stand it. So they rewrite the story, including all kinds of boyfriends and new lovers and so forth after Jack is killed. And it just drives me wild. They can’t understand that the story isn’t about Jack and Ennis. It’s about homophobia; it’s about a social situation; it’s about a place and a particular mindset and morality. They just don’t get it.

      I can’t tell you how many of these things have been sent to me as though they’re expecting me to say, Oh great, if only I’d had the sense to write it that way. And they all begin the same way—I’m not gay, but?.?.?.?The implication is that because they’re men they understand much better than I how these people would have behaved. And maybe they do. But that’s not the story I wrote. Those are not their characters. The characters belong to me by law. ”

        Quote  Reply

    214. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I can see why she was given the elbow but I’m not sure anyone really took her place. None of the SS really displayed any of her qualities nor picked up any role she may have had. I’m not really sure what the purpose of Dorne is at this point. With a a character that they would have interact with seemingly being cut, I guess they’ll be tagged onto Dany’s story which I’m not a great fan of…and before the usual lot moan, I wouldn’t be a fan of if it happens in the books too. Things have the potential to get awful messy storywise done there. Not entirely sure what they’re going to do with all these SS now especially with Trystane seemingly taking Nym’s place on the Small council ( sure he’ll be given a magnificent welcome!).

      mau,

      Yes, you can. It doesn’t take take a great deal of effort to expand a personality with even just the content or deliverance of lines. If you had said expand the role then I’d agree but I don’t think you necessarily need to do that to expand a character’s character. I can’t think of many characters beyond Bronn, Yoren and Osha who have been fleshed out more in the show. I think you’ll find much deeper characters in the books which is natural as there is more space and time to explore them.

      Thronetender,

      I think I kinda get why you’ve referenced it. I guess it depends on whether the material is plot or character driven. It appears the author there wanted the story to be more plot-driven. I’d argue GoT is more character-driven but Wimsey is probably the person to refer to on such issues. Are the writers trying to create a mini-theme around homophobia? I doubt it and even if so would it really have a satisfying pay-off? Like the author there, you’d have to ask GRRM or possibly D&D what their intention for the characters were. I think in GRRM’s case Loras wasn’t only intended to be a puppet for a story about sexuality.
      I think what I’m trying to get across is that for me , a person’s sexuality is ( or at least should be) the least interesting thing about them. I can see why a show like GoT that is set in a more brutal medieval world uses it as a point of conflict but I’d still like there to be something beyond a characters sexuality to be the make up of their character. Whilst watching the first season of the show, a lot of people referred to characters by things such as “the bastard”, “the dwarf”, “the one who fucked his sister”, “the drunk king”,”Tyrion’s mate” etc which is understandable as they are new to the characters and it’s an easy way to identify characters by focusing on their most immediate recognisable quality. It’s sad that Loras has never gotton beyond “the gay one” whereas nearly all the other characters are known by their names by regular show watchers.
      Hopefully in the future there will be more characters where their sexuality is not the main point of interest about them ( As a rather out-of-the-blue example ,the movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang comes to mind where Val Kilmer’s character is gay but it really doesn’t play any major role in the story). Think that will show how we’ve moved on as a society.

        Quote  Reply

    215. TheTouchofFrost,

      I’m hoping the purpose of Dorne in the show becomes clear, or at least clearer, this season. It seems to me Dorne and Dornish characters are being set up in the books to have a significant part to play. With some of the characters who have been cut and/or switched around, I can’t predict how that’s going to work on the show.

      As for no one taking the cut character’s place, well, I feel like Ellaria did, at least to some extent. She’s the one who tried to rally the Sand Snakes to get revenge for the death of their father, and she’s the one who actively tried to get KL to declare war on Dorne (albeit through different means).

        Quote  Reply

    216. TheTouchofFrost: I think I kinda get why you’ve referenced it. I guess it depends on whether the material is plot or character driven

      I think I referenced that quote because when I read your posts I kept thinking “this is the place and time in which Loras’s torment occurs.” Like Annie Proulx says in the part that I emphasized in bold type, it’s about a social situation; it’s about a place and a particular mindset and morality. It counts when we are talking sexuality, it counts when the subject of rape comes up. It counts in the telling of a story, because we can’t do anything about it. Those situations belong to the author. All we can do is take the lessons we learn about how we feel about events shown, and live better in our own times. Thus, the purpose of stories, the purpose of songs.

      In Loras’s case, it’s a place and time, specifically within the rising power arena of the Sparrows, that does judge first by sexuality, as much as we, with our changing views on sexuality, hate to think that way. The question of Who is fucking Who seems to be their, the Sparrows, main focus of energy. They nailed Cersei just on rumors of whom she had sex with. If Loras was in Dorne, or even at home in Highgarden, he wouldn’t be in the trouble he’s in. Time and place.

      Within the larger scope of the entire story of GoT, the reaction to sexuality is one way to differentiate between the different areas, and the problems that anyone who comes to conquer and rule is going to have. So far, the only person in the entire story who seems to have a complete grasp of the differences and how to use them is Littlefinger.

        Quote  Reply

    217. TheTouchofFrost: Well, for me it’s because it was the opportunity to develop a gay character where being gay isn’t the main characteristic. I really enjoyed the Kingsguard stuff in the book and the exchanges between him and Jaime.

      It is fine that you liked it, but it did nothing to develop Loras beyond re-establishing that he seems to be a very callow and vain individual. However, those are very rudimentary traits, and we’d known about those since the first book. What (if anything) lies beneath the callow, vain youth is unknown. Jaime is the character that got developed in that material: Loras was just a foil for doing so.

      At any rate, if they wanted to develop a gay male character as something more than gay, then they should have made one of the male protagonists gay. However, they did not do that: and trying to elevate Loras to a protagonist would have required a lot of shoehorning that probably would have cluttered the storytelling.

      TheTouchofFrost: I’m still not convinced this big team up against the Whitewalkers is going to happen. Bringing everything together like that could prove far too unwieldly.

      I rather suspect that the White Walkers ultimately are going to force the issue themselves. After all, if they get through the Wall, then nothing in the North is going to stop them from progressing south. Ultimately, I suspect that the real issue is going to be: what is their deal, what is R’hllor’s deal, what is the Children’s deal, and what can the humans do to avoid getting squashed between these groups/entities?

        Quote  Reply

    218. TheTouchofFrost:
      a person’s sexuality is ( or at least should be) the least interesting thing about them.

      Oh, pray tell! Where is that wonderful land where neither gender, race nor sexuality have any bearing on one’s life, because I really want to go to there…

      My point is that very often one’s sexuality is not just some private matter, but a political one. If you want it or not. There are so many gay men and women and transgender who have experienced violence and discrimination growing up (and still do today), that being gay for them is not just some trait like being grumpy in the morning. It’s an integral and formative part of your personality and biography. So when I read that being gay should not be important for other people, I agree that it shouldn’t, but in the world we live in today, sadly it still very much is and this should be reflected in the media. That’s why, I do very much think that the writers want to make a point about repressive moral belief systems who can gain power at any moment and how swift such a change can happen and what that means for minorities.

      So to get that point across, I guess a visibly sexually active Loras who is imprisoned because of his sleeping with another men in S5 is a much more powerful image than an abstinent Loras in mourning who is imprisoned having been seen being gay in season 2.

        Quote  Reply

    219. (As a rather out-of-the-blue example ,the movie Kiss Kiss Bang Bang comes to mind where Val Kilmer’s character is gay but it really doesn’t play any major role in the story). Think that will show how we’ve moved on as a society.

      One of my top 5 favourite movies. 🙂

      The character that was really ‘stereotyped’ beyond his book character (imo) was Renly. It wasn’t an problem with Gethin, although he didn’t follow the description (neither do Jorah, Tyrion and a multitude of others) – he went from being portrayed as a strong, self-assured warrior to downright flamboyant. Again, just my opinion, but it disappointed me how his character translated from page to screen. Perhaps it was like someone mentioned with Loras, he needed to be seen from a different point of view.

        Quote  Reply

    220. Selina,

      It seems like a fairly clever guess-timate. I call BS on

      Loras and the ‘breakout’, and the 27th in particular. But much of it could happen, because much of it has been put together from what we already know.

      🙂

        Quote  Reply

    221. Jack Bauer 24,

      Oooohhh! I hope this person is a troll. I really do. Another 20 days? Noooooooo!

      As for the spoilers, nothing really outlandish. The Sansa bit is interesting, but I don’t think that this person has seen the first three episodes. Are they even edited? Hmmm.

        Quote  Reply

    222. Wylie:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Oooohhh! I hope this person is a troll. I really do. Another 20 days? Noooooooo!

      As for the spoilers, nothing really outlandish. The Sansa bit is interesting, but I don’t think that this person has seen the first three episodes. Are they even edited? Hmmm.

      They’ll be editing up until the premiere, but it does premiere in 10 weeks so a lot should be in place right now. Filming ended almost 2 months ago.

        Quote  Reply

    223. Selina,

      I think some random dude claimed something on the internet without anything to back it up. ; ) It could be true or it could not be (probaly the later).

        Quote  Reply

    224. Wylie,

      I do not think Theon will be captured with Sansa in episode 3. He will probably be going to the Iron Islands, it would take a few episodes to escape and travel. Some spoilers say he is still going to Volantis after Kingsmoot, so only if he gets an airplane.

        Quote  Reply

    225. I didn’t even read beyond “I will not provide proof…I will not respond to naysayers (or however that was phrased).” It’s probably the same person who was trying so desperately to get people to believe he’d seen the leaked scripts.

        Quote  Reply

    226. Pigeon,

      It seemed quite clever at first, but then somehow I can’t really see the whole season

      opening with a dragon flying over a desert. Or Euron just having the horn of winter. Or the CotF building a saddle, it sounds awfully cute though.

        Quote  Reply

    227. Selina:
      Pigeon,

      I’m suspicious on the date. I don’t know, but Saturday and missing less than two months for the premiere? I think it’s weird.

      It’s funny that it’s the date that makes me question it first! Lol.

      Wylie:
      Pigeon,

      It seemed quite clever at first, but then somehow I can’t really see the whole season

      It wouldn’t be the

      Horn of Winter

      , but agreed on the rest!

        Quote  Reply

    228. He says he’s seen the first three episodes, but then references things that spoilers tell us clearly aren’t happening until later in the season

      (like Jaime rescuing Margaery from the Sept – that’s Episode 6 at least, not 1-3).

        Quote  Reply

    229. Selina,

      Yeah, that whole northern plot with Sansa remains a conundrum. Where does she end up and

      how exactly will Theon get to Pyke? Is Yara conveniently looking for him at the right place?

      No. I have to stop thinking about it, my head starts spinning already.

        Quote  Reply

    230. Selina,

      There, at least in my mind, is no reason whatsoever to believe the guy, and lots of reasons not to.

      If nothing else, and like I said, I didn’t read anything beyond his intro, why in the world would HBO send the first 3 episodes to an outside company, so said outside company could watch them and make the trailer?

        Quote  Reply

    231. Selina,

      Don’t worry, this is fake. A lot of that information does not gel at all with confirmed shooting info. Much of what he describes we know happens in Jack Bender-directed episodes for example (605 and 606) while this guy says they’re in the first three episodes.

      EDIT: Ninja’d by Kit Hepburn.

        Quote  Reply

    232. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Perhaps, although the character she has replaced was not as blinded by revenge and pretty much in sync with Doran by the time we left Dorne. Plus her Queenmaking made a lot more sense than the let’s kill for the sake of killing that the Show SS engaged in! I’m guessing it must have a purpose somewhere along the line or they wouldn’t have bothered introducing it.

      Thronetender,

      There’s no doubt a social aspect in relation to sexuality to the story going on but does that have to be mutually exclusive from the character’s feelings and motivaitons beyond the sexual? In fact, I think the fleshing out of Loras as a character would actually add to the sexuality min-theme that may be being implemented.

      Wimsey,

      I didn’t get that from it. Actually made me like the guy more. Finding out how much Renly’s death affected him and how much he cared for him. Plus his love for his sister/family when she becomes imprisoned and he rushes off to storm Dragonstone with apparently not-good conseqeunces ( although I have my doubts!). I’d agree he is there mainly to enhance Jaime’s story (with him seeing him as himself before the Kingslaying) but I don’t think it fair to disregard him as a character in his own right. Well, that’s my point. He didn’t want to develop him as a gay character as he’s a character that happens to be gay. The show appears to want to focus more on that aspect for better or worse.
      Honestly have no idea what the end game is. I can’t see the Whitewalkers getting beyond the north but who knows. If they did I imagine things would probably come to a head in the Westerlands as that appears to be the only land in Westeros not really explored yet. I do however think that people expecting some titanic battle with all the characters involved are perhaps setting themselves up for disappointment.

      Wylie,

      Feel free to come and hang out with me and my friends. None of those things have any bearing on how we treat eachother or other people. Be the change you wish to see in the world as Gandhi once said.
      We seem to heading to the same direction only on different roads. Personally, I think the constant marking out of people ( by others and indeed sometimes themselves) as being different doesn’t help integration. Obviously this doesn’t apply to GoT as people are killed for looking at someone the wrong way so any reason to persecute someone appears to be jumped at! I guess it depends on what you think is more effective. Loras being arrested for being gay is a strong image. I think it would have been stronger if he had been developed more as a character and having shown that he was about more than just the sex:His imprisonment would have felt more unjust because the viewer would have been mre sympathetic to his situation. Personally, I think a more positive image of Lora’s commitment to someone he loved (and indeed his sister) is a much more powerful message.

      Pigeon,

      It’s a great little film! Really surpised me that I enjoyed it so much as I went in not really expecting much!
      I think a lot of characters seem to have suffered from the translation from page to screen. Again, this may be because the books have more space and time to build characters or perhaps because we’ve developed them in our mind and when someone comes in with a new and different interpretation it irks us. Still frustrates me that we never really got a sense of how good a warrior Jaime was pre-chop. Think it would have really added to his hand-loss and why it affected him so. Thankfully only a couple of characters have really suffered complete and for some unwanted changes.

        Quote  Reply

    233. Selina:
      Greenjones,

      Agreed. I hope we have the trailer for next week. End of the month is too much time.

      If they do not announce the trailer by Friday then there will be no trailer with Vinyl. We all hope that is not the case.

        Quote  Reply

    234. Selina:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      I think they will release the trailer by surprise, as they did with the teasers. But I hope it will be soon.

      If it premieres with Vinyl it most certainly will not be by surprise because that would defeat the purpose of attracting more viewers to Vinyl.

        Quote  Reply

    235. Jack Bauer 24:
      Well if the trailer drops on the 27th I think this is legit unless it is a massive coincidence.

      I don’t trust this guy, a lot of what he’s saying doesn’t make since, and it doesn’t add up to the filming information we received. i’m sure Sue would debunk it if she saw this post.

        Quote  Reply

    236. Holy heart attacks Batman, I almost read something at IMDB because I’m so desperate for news.

      This lack of information is down right torture.

      HBO is Ramsay; we are Theon.

        Quote  Reply

    237. HotPinkLipstick:
      Holy heart attacks Batman, I almost read something at IMDB because I’m so desperate for news.

      This lack of information is down right torture.

      HBO is Ramsay; we are Theon.

      is IMDB that bad ?

        Quote  Reply

    238. Why the dearth of promotion this year? Does HBO think that they have reached as many viewers as they can? Are they not trying to grow the audience? Only the three teasers (with no new footage), no trailers, no IMAX, barely any interviews. Were they counting on winning more awards for the free publicity? THIS. WAIT. IS. KILLING. ME.

      And

      now this IMDB guy says no trailer until the 27th??

      Please HBO! Please! You’re killing me here! Please, BCog, if you’re lurking, throw us a bone that we can debate for a few days. Please!

      WotW gang: have you got any Looking Ahead or Hangin’ with Oz posts that you can put up to keep us sane? I. AM. LOSING. IT. HERE. :’O

      Whew! Thanks, everyone, for letting me blow off a little steam. Enjoy the partying tomorrow!

        Quote  Reply

    239. Ashara D:
      Why the dearth of promotion this year? Does HBO think that they have reached as many viewers as they can? Are they not trying to grow the audience? Only the three teasers (with no new footage), no trailers, no IMAX, barely any interviews. Were they counting on winning more awards for the free publicity? THIS. WAIT. IS. KILLING. ME.

      And Please HBO! Please! You’re killing me here! Please, BCog, if you’re lurking, throw us a bone that we can debate for a few days. Please!

      WotW gang: have you got any Looking Ahead or Hangin’ with Oz posts that you can put up to keep us sane? I. AM. LOSING. IT. HERE. :’O

      Whew! Thanks, everyone, for letting me blow off a little steam. Enjoy the partying tomorrow!

      its ok, hopefully we have more good news tonight in the form of David Nutter winning his first DGA tonight for Game of thrones episode Mother’s Mercy. besides I really don’t trust that guy at IMDB.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Ashara D:
      Why the dearth of promotion this year? Does HBO think that they have reached as many viewers as they can? Are they not trying to grow the audience?

      They don’t need to promote the season 3 months before it comes out. Also, who the fuck joins six seasons into a serial story without already being invested in the other seasons?

        Quote  Reply

    241. GeekFurious: They don’t need to promote the season 3 months before it comes out. Also, who the fuck joins six seasons into a serial story without already being invested in the other seasons?

      Season premieres in 2 1/2 months.

        Quote  Reply

    242. GeekFurious: They don’t need to promote the season 3 months before it comes out. Also, who the fuck joins six seasons into a serial story without already being invested in the other seasons?

      A lot of people actually, it’s not uncommon.

        Quote  Reply

    243. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Yes i also found it very interesting and although i am really happy with the way it turned out its always interesting to see where his mind was at the beginning and to see certain things go in a similar direction. Didn’t know it was that old I’m kind of new here a few months, and its the first website and forums i have frequented this often.

        Quote  Reply

    244. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Yes she is great and I can see her putting her valyrian steel blade to use against the white walkers as i believe she will escort sansa to Jon after word gets out he has taken back winterfell, and Sam will be really important I believe he will bump into important characters and warn them of impending danger, he will be a major player in the organization of the battle of the dawn

        Quote  Reply

    245. Nymeria Warrior Queen: As for no one taking the cut character’s place, well, I feel like Ellaria did, at least to some extent. She’s the one who tried to rally the Sand Snakes to get revenge for the death of their father, and she’s the one who actively tried to get KL to declare war on Dorne (albeit through different means).

      Ellaria took the important plot contribution from the cut character, and that suggests that this will be important in the future. I think that you do have the right of it: Dorne is going to serve some important plot point. I doubt that any of the characters themselves will be important in and of themselves, but the well-developed anti-Lannister sentiment no doubt will be important. However, I think that there really has to be a bigger payoff involving one of the Big 5. Daeny would seem to be the most probable bet. Given BM&W’s usual style, it won’t be a “gift” for Daeny – the main characters are not going to get any breaks handed to them on platters – but if she might well come out ahead in the grand scheme if she pays the personal price.

      But that’s just saying that we are getting pie for dessert: what the filling is, I have no idea.

        Quote  Reply

    246. Aryamad,

      That is fantastical. I love it. The only thing better would be pouty orange lipstick Stannis. I mean, if you need nightmare material 😉
      Thank you.

        Quote  Reply

    247. Matthew The Dragon knight,

      Fingers crossed!

      GeekFurious,

      It is still their flagship product, they still have 3 more seasons to go, and there are the tie-in products to think of, as well as cross-promoting with other shows like VICE, John Oliver, etc. Of course they should be promoting it. Why is S6 any different than the others is what I’m asking.

      Besides, I want it. Isn’t that enough? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    248. Yeaaaah that is pretty questionable, that guy’s info, based on what we know about the season. And note how vague he is about

      how Jon is resurrected

      . If it were me who had “seen” the episodes I’d be giving a second by second recap of that scene

        Quote  Reply

    249. Oh god
      from the live blog
      One insider back here in the press room said “If you think the DGAs are long, just wait until the WGAs!” At least we don’t have to compete with the east coast awards ceremony on DGAs. XDDDD

        Quote  Reply

    250. Nutter: “I’ll make this quick,” Thanks David. “Let me say this: Thank you DGA, what a dream it is to be here.”
      I know everyone says it, but whatever: it’s a great time for television drama right now. I’d have given this award to any of these nominees Thank you David Nutter for an amazing episode.
      Season 6 can’t come soon enough 🙂

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    251. Jack Bauer 24: Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!
      It was worth the wait

      Indeed it was 🙂 I can Rest and put my mind at ease 🙂 another win to ease the wait for the Trailer 🙂

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    252. Wimsey,

      I agree with you the only way I can see the humans make a big dent in the others army is with the help of the dragons who should be huge by then especially drogon and history tells us ballerion the black dread could light up a big chunk of an army killing thousands, now that’s saying if dragon fire can kill the white walkers which I’m sure will if valyrian steel is forged in dragon flames, bit it will definitely kill the wights, so I disagree with what touch of frost said as I do believe it will be a team effort, the living v the dead.

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    253. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I have a lot of admiration for both of them, especially Cate Blanchett. The problem, as I see it, is that they were not young enough for the part 6 years ago. But there will always be people to dislike a character or another. The problem is that some of them make very rude remarks. I’m not at all a Titanic fan, but it made me furious when I read, at that time, that the Titanic was doomed to sink because Kate Winslet was on deck. She has never been slender, but she’s beautiful and looked adorable and very suitable for the type of beauty praised at the beginning of the 20the century.

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    254. Selina,

      Call me Thomas, but I think this guy invented the whole story, just cleverly weaving together the bits of information we all, Sullied, have. I prefer the suppositions Luka Nieto wrote, it’s a really intelligent and creative approach. And, last but not least, an acknowledgement of imagination, not pretending to be something that isn’t.

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    255. TheTouchofFrost,

      And what are they supposed to do,put hitmen on all the crew members in case someone will leak something ?

      Edit: Look like it’s a picture of Euron in costume,although that may be the actor that plays him in another movie,not sure .

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    256. Boudica:
      There is threat on 4chan about supposedly spoiler pictures from season 6:

      http://boards.4chan.org/tv/thread/65745476#p65746711

      Hmm…

      Those pictures are pretty poor quality, so it’s more than possible that someone’s tinkered with them and didn’t want it to be obvious. If they are real, then we have a picture of Euron, a picture of Jon (in chains? I can’t tell, the picture is pretty bad) and a picture of Jon and Melisandre. Jon has the same outfit as the one he was in in the leaked photo and his hair’s back in a bun. A ‘breakdown of the trailer’ has also been posted:

      >Brand is talking
      >doors opening
      >huge silhouette of 3 kingsguard enters the place (biggest in the middle, probably Clegane)
      >hooded figure
      >Daenerys surrounded by Dothrakis
      >Jon Snow in some sort of a dungeon looking sad while holding something
      >Winterfell with emphasis on bolton flags
      >pic related enters the room then smiles like a smug mother fucker
      >Arya with her eyes back watching form the bushes

      I’m not sure they’d put a living, breathing Jon in the trailer, though…

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    257. Also Jesus Christ i know 4chan is a shithole but can they at least put some effort for a better site design ? I mean i wanted to pull my hair out when i saw the mess in that thread and i thought reddit is bad .

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    258. Dragonslayer,

      They wouldn’t put Jon in the trailer period unless it’s a shot of him dying from last season so yeah i’m starting to think it’s some clever scam and not an actual leak . Also how did this guy even managed to get this unless he’s an insider and if he was an insider wouldn’t he know who Euron is which this guy doesn’t seem to ?

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    259. Well, we will have lot’s of (rather obvious) trolls claiming to have seen screeners/the trailer in the next months, hopefully without anyone leaking real info. I hope HBO found whoever was responsible last year and sued them. I almost hope HBO won’t release any screeners at all, they don’t need this kind of promotion anymore.

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    260. Dragonslayer,

      Yeah,the thing is whoever leaked the episodes last year was probably a critic and at this point the show probably didn’t even finish the first episode post production so if it’s a leak it’s probably from the trailer and from an insider but like i said some dubious things makes me question this ,the first thing is his language which definitely doesn’t sound like it’s from someone working on this show and had access to the material would talk like that .

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    261. Name *: Hmm…

      No Sansa,Tyrion, Cersei or Jaime??

      Also why there is a blue 2016 box on the Jon Mel pic??

      I want so much to get a trailer today!! But a real one.

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    262. I agree it is properly photoshopped pictures, that would also be why it is so grainy. I am also very doubtful that Jon would appear alive in the trailer. That man bun picture looks a bit to neat, it looks like they took Kit’s head from one of the award shows that he attended with a man bun. The format of 4chan is atrocious.

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    263. Name *: In fact, I’d almost be willing to bet that this picture:

      http://i.4cdn.org/tv/1454835871306.jpg

      is a version of this one:

      https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=ned+dungeon&view=detailv2&&id=DDA4D0F05E6C77C2EA4C18C391B736CA917002FD&selectedIndex=1&ccid=Q1KzD0bK&simid=608041643417406708&thid=OIP.M4352b30f46cae2dbd79708765a1a5c52o0&ajaxhist=0

      with Kit’s head photoshopped on.

      It might be, but looking at picture a bit closer, it looks like it is suppose to be Jon lying down with blue winter roses in his hands?

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    264. Boudica,

      Perhaps, but the positioning of the bodies next to the edge is near identical, both pictures have chains in the same place relative to their heads and the chains seem to have the same shape. Yeah, I saw the blue winter roses, but if you look at Ned’s right arm and ‘Jon’s’ right arm, they are in the same position and I reckon the creases in the elbows of the sleeves are identical.

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    265. Boudica,

      If it’s real and that’s what’s going on here then that means he’ll be put in a cell, laid to rest with Stark uniform on, and the blue flowers, which means someone who knows who his mother is and cares about him found his body in the snow and brought it to Winterfell crypts?! That means the Bolton’s are driven out before Jon comes back to the land of living and raises his army? Makes no sense! considering the spoilers we’ve had for how some of the episodes will go. Unless it’s somehow done in secret. But I don’t want to think of the other possibility.

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    266. Boudica: It might be, but looking at picture a bit closer, it looks like it is suppose to be Jon lying down with blue winter roses in his hands?

      Out of all those pictures, the only one that looks like it might be legit is the Euron Greyjoy picture…I wouldn’t necessarily put it past HBO to show 1-2 seconds of Jon (Snow?) right at the end? (they would know this would dramatically spike their numbers on the day of the Vinyl and Walking Dead premiere…)

      But most likely they will just do something like Mel smiling enigmatically at somebody off camera saying something like “My King” or “My Prince”…LOL.

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    267. YgritTe,

      I’m glad that Sue, the voice of reason, clarified this. I would be sorry to know that you are upset because of something that won’t happen. Not that I’d like you to be upset because of anything 🙂

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    268. They are really bad and obvious fakes. The photoshop work is poor and the costume and overall look in the Euron one isn’t GOT-ish. And his hair/beard/mustache are too short and smooth, compared to what was described to me by the person who leaked Pilou’s casting. Definitely standard 4chan fakery. Please stop linking to any of their nonsense.

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    269. God Damn it! Just give us the trailer already! What a shit week it’s been, and now with all these fakes??
      Sue thanks for clarifying 4chan one. What do you think about the Imdb guy??
      He claims he watched the first 3 epsiodes.

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    270. Tyrion the Myrion,

      I think there’s certainly more they could do…like not give advanced screening perks to certain parties and being a bit tighter with the crew on set. Doesn’t bother me too much as it normally takes some effort to find sites showing this stuff. Not being in the US then I’ve learnt to avoid all social media until I’ve watched the episode as a lot of news sites have got lazy and think reporting what has happened in a show is newsworthy!

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    271. Joffrey’s Cunt: He claims he watched the first 3 epsiodes.

      A lot of the events that he mentions are suppose to happen in episode 5 and 6. So obvious fake. Although I have to say his solution for what happens to Sansa is actually not that bad.

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    272. Joffrey’s Cunt,

      Link? I very much doubt the first three episodes are even complete yet. The soundtrack is most likely not completley finished yet, and they’ll have tons of editing to do once it is. Considering that they’re still doing post production on the later episodes after the official premiere, I doubt that the first 3 episodes are completely finished and ready to be watched right now.

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    273. Boudica,

      I asked him about Jon, and I actually liked what he toldme aswell, but there were some cheesy lines and direct quotes from the books that made me think it was all bs

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    274. Thronetender,

      I saw the first season of ‘Ripper Street’ but haven’t caught up on the rest yet. I keep meaning to try and borrow a DVD of ‘Breaking Bad’ because I’ve heard good things about it. I never really warmed to ‘The Sopranos’ or ‘Mad Men’ though I know I’m in the minority. I tried a couple of episodes of ‘Penny Dreadful’ but it got too OTT for my personal tastes when the French bird climbed on top of the table. There was a re-run of the 1999 ‘David Copperfield’ today though I missed most of it as I was out. The actor who played Maester Cressen was in it and so was Ian McNiece who nearly played I Montpassis. He’s not in GoT but David as a boy was played by a very young Daniel Ratcliffe.

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    275. Rhaenys Stark: Could you post the link please?

      It was posted a bit higher up in this thread.

      Joffrey’s Cunt: I asked him about Jon, and I actually liked what he toldme aswell, but there were some cheesy lines and direct quotes from the books that made me think it was all bs

      Yes, the stuff about Jon also wasn’t too bad.

      The person should just have done some better research about when certain events takes place before creating such a thread. 🙂

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    276. You guys have so much fun whenever I’m not on.
      What’s with all the fake shit we’re getting ? More to come I guess :p
      Trailer is coming….. eventually XDDD

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    277. Dame of Mercia: I saw the first season of ‘Ripper Street’ but haven’t caught up on the rest yet. I keep meaning to try and borrow a DVD of ‘Breaking Bad’ because I’ve heard good things about it. I never really warmed to ‘The Sopranos’ or ‘Mad Men’ though I know I’m in the minority. I tried a couple of episodes of ‘Penny Dreadful’ but it got too OTT for my personal tastes when the French bird climbed on top of the table. There was a re-run of the 1999 ‘David Copperfield’ today though I missed most of it as I was out. The actor who played Maester Cressen was in it and so was Ian McNiece who nearly played I Montpassis. He’s not in GoT but David as a boy was played by a very young Daniel Ratcliffe.

      Ripper Street is good in general. I have very similar feelings about the Sopranos, Mad Men and Penny Dreadful, but it has been years since I ve watched it so if I ever watch it again I might change my mind.
      I ve seen the first 4 episodes of Breaking Bad and it looks alright, but I dont feel anything or a connection to the characters, yet.

      I ve just started the 5th season of The Wire, and I am bit sad because I know it will be the last season. I also miss Justified this year, as the show finished last year and it usually showed during this time of the year.
      Justified is also very good, it just start out a bit disjointed in the first 5 episodes or so, because those episodes are based on separate short stories. But once you get pass that the story remained good for 6 season, and the ending was also very good.
      Thinking about British Dramas, I think Endeavour is also pretty good.

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    278. Dragonmcmx:
      Joffrey’s Cunt,

      Link? I very much doubt the first three episodes are even complete yet. The soundtrack is most likely not completley finished yet, and they’ll have tons of editing to do once it is. Considering that they’re still doing post production on the later episodes after the official premiere, I doubt that the first 3 episodes are completely finished and ready to be watched right now.

      I’m sure it is fake, but I would think that the season is very watchable right now. Of course they are still editing, but David and Dan said they do post production right up until the episode airs. So even when the season premieres and say they are on episode 4, they still work on episode 5 until it airs. Majority is done but they consistently tweak things.

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    279. Wow. People have nothing better to do then create fake photos of the show and make up shit like they’ve see. The first episodes
      That’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard

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    280. Boudica
      Dame of Mercia

      You guys tried ‘Wolf Hall’ yet? That’s very good. ‘The Last Kingdom’ is definately worth a watch too and then there’s always ‘Poldark’ for something a little lighter.

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    281. Boudica,

      I saw a few episodes of ‘Justified’ and thought it was interesting but it aired on an evening when I usually go to a folk night. I tried to watch it on the computer player for the relevant channel but it wouldn’t let me watch unless I disabled the adblocking software on the computer and I wasn’t prepared to be bullied into watching the adverts (which were of an absolutely ridiculous length and number). I know commercial TV stations rely on adverts for revenue but there can be too much. This will only mean anything to people in the UK (and possibly Ireland) but I think if I hear the advert of people singing “Galalala bingo” one more time I’ll have the screaming habdabs!

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    282. Boudica,

      Endeavour is one of my favourites. Sean Evans has pulled off the daunting task of playing the young Morse extremely well, and Roger Allam is always a gem. I love so many of the detective series like Morse and Lewis, Midsomer, George Gently, Vera….right now I’m going through the Rosemary & Thyme series, which is kind of a pleasantly innocent change from the more gritty shows. Also love Wallander, but more the Swedish series.

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