Pilou Asbæk on Game of Thrones season 6: “There’s no one like Euron Greyjoy.”

Pilou

One of season six’s new additions, Pilou Asbæk, talks Game of Thrones in a new interview with IGN this week. He wisely avoids spoilers but the actor teases his character, Euron Greyjoy, and shares his excitement in joining the show and his experience from the day the news of his casting broke.

Though there may be many characters on the show, “There’s no one like Euron Greyjoy,” Asbæk says to IGN with a smile.

As for the news of his casting leaking, announced by Watchers on the Wall via our sources back in September, the actor says, “It came as a surprise.” The actor was spotted filming a scene at the time and our sources confirmed the actor’s identity- visit the original post for scene spoilers!

He elaborates, “When I came home that night, there was like two-hundred calls and two-hundred unanswered text messages and stuff like that. That was quite intense, I’ll tell you that.”

Asbæk has only glowing words for Game of Thrones, calling it one of the best TV shows in the world, and the characters “spectacular.”

“I’m happy and proud to be a part of it,” he says.

Enjoy the complete interview below:

170 responses

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    1. Why do i have the feeling that Euron will have a fate similar to that of Oberyn Martell…i mean not like extreme headache fate but more like brutal and shocking scene fate.
      Anyway, am excited for more Greyjoy action in S6!

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    2. This the first time i see Euron live!!
      He does not look his age, i could easily see him as Theons uncle. I was worried he was too young, but he looks older.
      How is his accent? I am not an English speaker, so i don’t really understand the differences!

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    3. So fun to hear such high praise from a new actor to the show! Of course, would expect nothing less! GoT is the BEST TV show in the world! Can’t wait to see him as Euron Greyjoy, as always, seems like Nina Gold did a great job casting him! Only 99 days!!!!

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    4. I have never seen him in anything. Pilou seems to be a very nice person, but I expect him to be like Iwan Rheon: pleasant guy, psycho character.

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    5. I feel like adding him in this late in the show where we are nearing the end and need to start winding down may indicate how big Eurons role in the story must be. Of course I always thought he would make a pretty decent impact in the books to come. Any thoughts?

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    6. Khal Daniel,

      Not sure about this. It may just be that he is necessary for Theon’s arc in the show. They put a lot of emphasis on Theon last season after him being a cringing slave for all of season 4. I think with his returning agency and the emphasis on the awakening of Theon out of Reek (see Sansa rape scene, which was more about Theon than Sansa), they have to give him obstacles and things to rise above. So maybe Euron’s casting is not so much about Euron but about Theon.

      As for the books, I get the emphasis on the Ironborn even less. What is their function? They are neither protagonists (Starks, Tyrion, Dany) nor major antagonists or their enablers (Lannisters, Tyrells) nor candidates for any late-time game changing (Martells). They aren’t even decoys, i.e. characters functioning as alternative protagonists only to be proven false (Stannis, fAegon). Are they just there to piss people off here and there, throw wedges in plans and generally be manly? I wish they had more of a significance. I like Asha, and I’m fascinated by Euron, but I can’t see any Ironborn in the book making a difference in the end. Theon has the best chance – he may redeem himself.

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    7. Jack Bauer 24:
      Why does he say “next year” twice? Premiere is in 3 months.

      We’re only 16 days into the new year. Could be that the interview is actually over two weeks old, or that Asbæk hasn’t adjusted to the new year yet.

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    8. OT. The other day I was rewatching Season 3 and I noticed this.
      3×03 Walk of Punishment
      Mance: Tormund, climb the Wall. Take Orell and twenty good men.

      It probably doesn’t mean anything, but I found it curious, to say the least. ?

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    9. Maggie,

      It seems slightly Scandinavian, definitely. Thrones is never consistent with the accents, so I’m sure it won’t be noticeable that his accent is nothing like his relatives. But maybe it will contribute to his character’s eccentricity.

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    10. Is it just me or does he look like Asher Forrester? And he somewhat looks like Alfie Allen as well. Looking forward to Euron in Season 6!

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    11. Jamnesia,

      I noticed that too, but it doesn’t mean that he can’t do a proper accent for the show.

      Either way, I do like him. The voice is great and I think he can be really dark and intimidating if he wants to.

      Also, I wonder if we are going to see him in the trailer. Before season 5 started, we knew quite a few things about new characters like the Sand Snakes for instance…

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    12. dee,

      Book Victarion seems to be integral to

      Dany’s future story in some sense (dragons, ships, etc). Have a feeling the show is combining Euron/Victarion stories so think he’ll have a role to play in the wars to come.

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    13. I must say I had my doubts regarding Pilou, but he really seems like he’s up to the task.
      Now we only need to see a photo of him in costume.
      It’s time to see House Greyjoy finally doing something ???

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    14. Jack Bauer 24: Why does he say “next year” twice? Premiere is in 3 months.

      That is when “next year” starts for the show.

      I will confess that I have never understood the obsession with Euron. I had completely forgotten about him until I read fans writing about all of the different things that they imagined that he would be like. (The goofy-assed “Euron is Daario” idea might be where I first became aware of him: if ever there is a good example of why readers need to put their imaginations away and just absorb the author’s imagination, this is it! That idea probably came around during my extended sabbatical from the fandom.)

      I suspect that Euron will provide important plot elements in Winter only, although I am not sure what those will be. So, he could well be a one-season character. I am betting that he will affect Cersei’s and Sam’s storylines, but that is just for geographical reasons. The problem is that I have a difficult time seeing how either Sam or even Cersei will be that important to the Winter story: at this point, the Big Five really should be the main drivers of the story. But I cannot guess how Euron might cause any big dilemmas for Jon, Daeny, Bran, Arya or Tyrion at this point.

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    15. Cersei’s Brain: ook Victarion seems to be integral to Dany’s future story in some sense (dragons, ships, etc).

      I doubt that Victarion is going to affect

      Daeny’s story at all. He probably is purely there for plot: to provide ships and perhaps a means of taming dragons. However, the show already has provided the ships, and I think that the audiences will be fine with “How to Train Your Dragons Essos Style.” Indeed, in many ways it will be much better if Tyrion and whomever else somehow bond with the two remaining dragons: that will be much less arbitrary than a magic dragon whistle.

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    16. Khal Daniel: I feel like adding him in this late in the show where we are nearing the end and need to start winding down may indicate how big Eurons role in the story must be.

      The fact that Euron is being introduced so late means that his impact on the over-arching story cannot be huge in either books or show. The big elements have to be the ones that have been there since Thrones/Season 1. That is just the nature of storytelling: an arch of beginning, middle and end is needed, and if something was not there in the beginning, then it’s effect on the end is necessarily very constrained.

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    17. Wimsey,

      The big five * cough* ( I can’t wait till one of them dies so people will realize that the original plot was leaked on purpose because it doesn’t spoil anything on the current story), can’t actually carry two books alone, they need other people villains and relationships to go on.

      Jamnesia:
      Maggie,

      It seems slightly Scandinavian, definitely. Thrones is never consistent with the accents, so I’m sure it won’t be noticeable that his accent is nothing like his relatives. But maybe it will contribute to his character’s eccentricity.

      Thanks. I believe the most incosistent family has to be the lannisters, three brothers/sisters with different accent each one.. Or better twins with different accents? 🙂

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    18. Tywin of the Hill,

      At the first glance at him I was like ”WTF this guy is way to young to play Theons uncle, and WHY ISNT HE MADS MIKKELSEN?”, but then I actually took some time to watch some of his stuff. He is a terrific actor.

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    19. Maggie,

      You will be waiting a while! It is too late for characters outside of the Big 5 to be truly important to the over-arching story, with one exception: Sansa might become part of the big 6.

      Ultimately, the overarching story is going to stem from how protagonists evolved from Thrones -> Springs. Characters that were not protagonists in Thrones therefore are limited in how much they can contribute. GRRM sealed that fate when he wrote Thrones: and he cannot change it now. And that is why it was safe to “leak” the original synopsis: it said nothing that we didn’t already know.

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    20. Wimsey: The fact that Euron is being introduced so late means that his impact on the over-arching story cannot be huge in either books or show.The big elements have to be the ones that have been there since Thrones/Season 1.That is just the nature of storytelling: an arch of beginning, middle and end is needed, and if something was not there in the beginning, then it’s effect on the end is necessarily very constrained.

      There’s a little film you may or may not have heard of called Fargo that came out back in 1996 (though it has been turned into a really excellent TV show more recently). I’m rather fond if it, as it’s also quite literary especially in terms of character construction, setting, theme considerations, etc. The main protagonist, Marge Gunderson played by Frances McDormand, is only introduced 1/3rd of the way into the film. The character played by William H. Macy, on the other hand, is introduced immediately at the beginning of the story and has quite a lot of screentime comparatively. However, he’s more of the villain or antagonist of the story, we slowly come to find out. Or do we only think he’s the antagonist because he does “bad” things, and do we only think that Marge is the protagonist because she does “good” things? Structurally, isn’t Macy the protagonist because he’s introduced first, and McDormand the antagonist because she’s introduced second? It’s fascinating really how the story experiments with traditional structures and turns expectations on its head, and it causes you to question your perceptions of storytelling as a result.

      My point? Stop using your arbitrary rules of Literature 101 to definitely state who and what is going to be important in ASOIAF/GoT and how, when by Martin’s own admission he’s out to subvert expectations, turn conventions of the genre upside down, and throw certain classic tropes out the window. You have a very limited understanding of what might be important and how in this particular story, because you refuse to modify your view of Literature 101. This isn’t Literature 101, this is Literature 102: The Destabilizing; it’s derived from Literature 101, but far too many expectations are being experimented with to call it the exact same thing. I suggest you apply your narrow view of Literature 101 on a more straightforward story, because this isn’t it.

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    21. Jonathan:
      At the first glance at him I was like ”WTF this guy is way to young to play Theon’s uncle, and WHY ISNT HE MADS MIKKELSEN?”.

      It’s hard to let Mikkelsen go, isn’t it?
      I also had a problem with his age, but then I remembered that Jojen’s actor and the Mountain’s are only two years apart, so what do I know?

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    22. dee,

      The most common theory, and I think there’s plenty in the text to support it, is that Euron is there to be a major, perhaps the major, threat to Dany whenever she gets around to invading the south.

      He’s clearly fixated on the dragons, and has designs with respect to them (I have no idea what the whole plan with the Horn is, but there clearly must be more to it than what he’s told Victarion, the uber-dupe), has Qartheen warlocks in his custody, there’s a lot of suggestion that he’s going to sack Oldtown in TWOW, which if so he would probably be doing so in search of the dragonlore reputed to held within the Citadel (which is what the Faceless Men are presumed to be after there, and which Sam’s being in Oldtown is probably meant to bring him into contact with).

      This also addresses one of the more common issues raised for any dramatic story where Dany invades the south, that being, there’s nobody there with the capacity to meaningfully challenge her dragons.

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    23. jentario,

      I don’t know what the situation’s going to be in the show, but in the books his exile was only 3 years long. Not aging in 3 years is not that creepy.
      EDIT: Unless you’re little Sam ?

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    24. jentario:
      Tywin of the Hill,

      Wasn’t like 10 years?

      No. In AFFC, Aeron and Victarion mentioned it has been 2 or 3 years since Euron’s exile. So if anything, Euron’s banishment happened shortly before the story started. Though for the TV show, they can changed that to a 10 years gap. When did the Greyjoy Rebellion happened in the show?

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    25. dee:
      Khal Daniel,

      (see Sansa rape scene, which was more about Theon than Sansa)

      Wrong, it was about both of them. It served as a catalyst for Sansa to get out of there.

      As for the Greyjoys role in the story (not counting Theon), so far they just seem to be people who ruin other people’s plans. I am very curious what is going to go down in Oldtown and how Sam fits into all of that.

      According to the wiki, Euron was banished in 297, so he was only gone a few years. I thought it was more.

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    26. kit_hepburn,

      I think you missed his point slightly, which is that if Euron was going to be a main character in the end-game of the books, the TV show would have introduced him earlier when it had the opportunity (in Season 4 or 5). His delayed entrance, and the suspicion that he would probably have been excluded completely if they had finished in 7 seasons, implies that he may certainly be a big character with a big role to play (like Oberyn, or Ygritte, or the High Sparrow) but that he’s not going to be one of the main characters in the overall story arc. He may challenge or ally with or even kill one of the main characters, but I doubt he’s going to become one of the main characters (antagonist or protagonist).

      I do agree with you that it’s not necessary to stick to narrative conventions, but story arcs nevertheless do serve a purpose if you want to achieve the biggest impact on your audience. Introducing the main character when you’re two thirds of the way through the story is possible, sure it is, there are no rules; but it would also be a big risk in a mainstream TV show with millions of viewers who have formed connections to Jon, Tyrion, Jamie, Dany, Bran, Arya and Sansa. I’m not sure the show runners (or GRRM) are quite that experimental. And Euron’s roll in the books so far, despite him being a memorable character, is actually quite small (his brother has been ‘on stage’ for a lot more time). We’ll see, I guess, but if Euron is the One True King at the end of the story, or Azor Ahai, or some such thing, then I will eat my dwarf’s cock.

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    27. Khal Daniel,
      dee,
      Sean C.,

      I agree with Sean. Euron strikes me as a midboss for Dany.

      Imagine for example, this scenario for S7’s end:
      – in E9, Cersei almost burns King’s Landing while waiting for Dany… almost, because she’s stopped at the last moment by Jaime accompanied by Sandor Clegane;
      – meanwhile, also in E9, Dany fights Euron, loses one of the dragons, but gains Sam;
      – E10: Dany enters the throne room. It is empty, except for bodies everywhere. Tyrion sees Jaime and Cersei’s bodies. We also see dead Varys, Qyburn, both Cleganes…. Snow begins to fall. Dany picks up a flake from her hair; after all, she’s never seen snow before.
      Sam pipes up: “there really is something you need to know, Your Majesty…”
      –Drogon screeches above, as the snowflakes evaporate off his/her skin. End season.

      /fanfic over e: point being, I think that Euron will serve to delay Dany next season, so that she arrives only at the very end. And he’ll provide a good fight in her arc, too. I think. I hope. ?

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    28. Bob Warren,

      I didn’t miss his point, it just happened to be that particular quote I responded to. I could have also highlighted his previous post, or his next one, or any post he’s made on the matter of the protagonists, the Big 5, narrative arcs, or Literature 101, but that would have made my own post novel-length. Of course Euron is not going to be the King of the Realm, nor will he be as important as the main characters. This isn’t actually about Euron who, as Sean C said, is likely just a final-act villain to challenge Daenerys. But I’m exhausted reading about how only five or six people are important to this story, while everyone else can be dismissed as filler, window-dressing, or irrelevant to the plot. This story is a bit broader in scope and ambition than that.

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    29. Pilou does have a cool voice. I’ve gotta hear him deliver some of Euron’s epic speeches and lines.

      “Perhaps we can fly. All of us. How will we ever know unless we leap from some tall tower? No man ever truly knows what he can do unless he dares to leap.”

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    30. FreeParking: Wrong, it was about both of them. It served as a catalyst for Sansa to get out of there.

      We will have to disagree on this. For me, the marriage and the mistreatment were about Sansa. But after the rape scene it looked as if she was going to give up for a while, not being finally motivated to flee.
      That particular scene the way it was shot seemed to be all about Theon as it focused almost exclusively on his face and what he was going through. Sansa’s cries told the viewer what was happening, so did Theon’s face, but the change that was beginning here – as far as we were shown – was in him, not in her.
      But this discussion is about Euron, so let’s leave it at that.

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    31. Not hard to let him go at all… As he was never in line to play Euron. That was just fans wishful thinking. 😉

      Tywin of the Hill: It’s hard to let Mikkelsen go, isn’t it?
      I also had a problem with his age, but then I remembered that Jojen’s actor and the Mountain’s are only two years apart, so what do I know?

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    32. EURON! EURON! URINE KINGGGG!

      So dang excited for this dude to show up. Please have an eye patch & blue lips.

      Euron = Sauron

      …Concealed withing his eyepatch the Lord of Pyke sees ALL. His gaze pierces cloud, shadow, earth, & flesh. You know of what I speak. A black eye shining w/ malice. He is gathering all dragons to him. Very soon he will have summoned an army large enough to launch an assault upon the corpse of Westros. Those who follow him will feast until the end of their days.

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    33. kit_hepburn: My point? Stop using your arbitrary rules of Literature 101 to definitely state who and what is going to be important in ASOIAF/GoT and how, when by Martin’s own admission he’s out to subvert expectations

      One, Literary “Rules” are not arbitrary. They are summaries of what makes good (and bad) storytelling.

      Two, GRRM never has said this. He has said that he’s out to subvert tropes, i.e., cliches. GRRM has subverted the classic fantasy cliches by not having “good” and “evil,” but instead having his characters motivated by a variety of value systems that differ in how selfish/altruist they are. He has subverted other cliches by having “powers” such as magic, dragons, White Walkers, etc., not be “good” or “evil” but simply their own forces that operate for their own purposes and/or under their own rules. On the other hand, GRRM has been very upfront about the theory of storytelling to which he adheres: having characters come to grips with their own moral hypocrisies, cost/gain situations, and conflicted emotions.

      In short, what GRRM is doing is writing a real novel in a fantasy setting. And that is going to throw off the expectations of most fantasy readers because, to be blunt, most fantasy fans read very few books that actually tell stories.

      kit_hepburn: Structurally, isn’t Macy the protagonist because he’s introduced first, and McDormand the antagonist because she’s introduced second?

      Absolutely not. Structurally, this is a two-protagonist story where both protagonists are (to some extent) the other character’s antagonist. (The primary antagonists are the kidnappers that Lundegaard hires; and, of course, they turn out to be antagonistic to each other in the end!) This structure is hardly too uncommon: many novels and films use two lead characters in competition with each other in some way to tell a story.

      What makes a character a protagonist comes down to one thing: does the evolution of that character create (or contribute to) the story? That demands that they be there early in the story: otherwise, how does the beginning of the tale contribute to their evolution? Primary antagonists have the same thing: they have to be introduced at the outset in some manner. So when a character really is not introduced until the 3rd act, that character is necessarily limited in terms of how much impact he/she can have. This is not an “arbitrary rule”: it’s just reality.

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    34. Greenjones:
      Gravemaster,

      Amazing find. Definitely new because if one looks back at the Girona shoot, we know precisely what scene that’s from too.

      It has to be from some video, but youtube and all GOT-related hashtags on twitter have nothing about this. Very strange.

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    35. Greenjones:
      Gravemaster,

      Amazing find. Definitely new because if one looks back at the Girona shoot, we know precisely what scene that’s from too.

      Yep! Thanks for passing that along, Gravemaster.

      If that picture is floating about, perhaps that means some other pictures from season 6 are on the way, as, at least to me, that picture has more of an “officially released” feel to it, or maybe that’s just wishful thinking on my part.

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    36. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Exactly. We can clearly tell that this is a screenshot from a video and it was posted about 2 hours ago. If it was officially released, everyone would have seen it by now, but maybe this is from some teaser that got leaked or something. That means a teaser is really on the way.

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    37. Gravemaster:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Exactly. We can clearly tell that this is a screenshot from a video and it was posted about 2 hours ago. If it was officially released, everyone would have seen it by now, but maybe this is from some teaser that got leaked or something. That means a teaser is really on the way.

      Yeah, we getting a teaser or a trailer soon. Maybe this weekend? The picture leaked early because it’s the internet. Maybe premiering before a new movie on HBO? Let’s hope.

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    38. Or after the movie. They do that sometines because there is about a 3-5 minute gap between shows and movies on the HBO channels. They do their movie and show advertising during that time period.

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    39. Euron should be quite an interesting addition to the soup. No, he isn’t going to become the whole soup, but the addition of Euron-spice will certainly make a difference (I should say hopefully make a difference, please no Sand Snake effect) to the overall “taste” of the dish. As Oberyn changed the direction Tyrion might have taken, I think Euron is going to change the direction of one of the other main players.

      Tywin of the Hill: OT. The other day I was rewatching Season 3 and I noticed this.
      3×03 Walk of Punishment
      Mance: Tormund, climb the Wall. Take Orell and twenty good men.
      It probably doesn’t mean anything, but I found it curious, to say the least

      Off topic, but I have something to add to this speculation, regarding 20 good men, sort of. In the last episode of Season 4, Jon goes to talk with Mance, or kill him. The conversation goes like this:

      Mance: So, you’re here to strike a bargain
      Jon: Turn your army around and go home.
      Mance: You know I know you’re low on arrows, you’re low on oil, you’re low on men. How many are left? 50?
      Jon: I told Tormund we had more than a thousand.
      Mance: I hit you with everything I had: the whole army, 100,000 strong, and what did you do? You fired on us, with everything you had. It wasn’t much. As soon as I saw that, I sent 400 men to climb the wall. An unmanned stretch five miles west of here. A lot of them will die climbing, but most of them will be over by the end of the day. It’s me being honest with you, Jon Snow…

      So, what’s the purpose of the 400? We never hear of them again, yet we know no lines are wasted, and D&D are known to set up situations far in advance of their actual use. I really doubt that the fact of 400 wildings loose in the North isn’t going to have some sort of impact, or else why mention them? There were other things Mance might have said. I’m kind of hoping they have the purpose of kicking Ramsay in his hind end when it counts the most. Mance’s 400 men (20 x 20) could make a lot of difference in the Bastard Bowl, or whatever they are calling it. Maybe it will be like Mance’s thank-you from beyond for Jon’s mercy.

      With Euron as an unknown but exciting addition, and everything else, I’m so excited for this season to start.

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    40. Gravemaster,

      I can’t tell the difference between a screenshot from a video and a photograph. All I know, well, don’t know, but it’s my impression, is it’s definitely an image captured in an official capacity, as opposed to a fan-shot. I’m trying to temper my expectations regarding when a trailer will be released, in part just because I don’t want to get my hopes up too soon, but also because, as others have stated on other threads, it would kind of make sense if they showed the first official trailer during the premiere of Vinyl (especially since there’s still been no word of them doing episodes from last season in IMAX, again). Whatever the case, what you posted definitely got me excited we’ll soon be seeing more images from season 6, whether still photographs or in a trailer.

      Thanks, again!

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    41. Gravemaster: Jaime on a white horse

      Yes…the great Lord Commander of the Kingsguard returning from his successful and inspiring campaign in Dorne!

      (don’t mind Myrcella’s corpse behind him…)
      (gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds…)

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    42. Thronetender:
      Euron should be quite an interesting addition to the soup. No, he isn’t going to become the whole soup, but the addition of Euron-spice will certainly make a difference (I should say hopefully make a difference, please no Sand Snake effect) to the overall “taste” of the dish. As Oberyn changed the direction Tyrion might have taken, I think Euron is going to change the direction of one of the other main players.

      Off topic, but I have something to add to this speculation, regarding 20 good men, sort of.In the last episode of Season 4, Jon goes to talk with Mance, or kill him. The conversation goes like this:

      Mance: So, you’re here to strike a bargain
      Jon:Turn your army around and go home.
      Mance: You know I know you’re low on arrows, you’re low on oil, you’re low on men. How many are left? 50?
      Jon: I told Tormund we had more than a thousand.
      Mance:I hit you with everything I had: the whole army, 100,000 strong, and what did you do? You fired on us, with everything you had. It wasn’t much. As soon as I saw that, I sent 400 men to climb the wall. An unmanned stretch five miles west of here. A lot of them will die climbing, but most of them will be over by the end of the day. It’s me being honest with you, Jon Snow…

      So, what’s the purpose of the 400? We never hear of them again, yet we know no lines are wasted, and D&D are known to set up situations far in advance of their actual use. I really doubt that the fact of 400 wildings loose in the North isn’t going to have some sort of impact, or else why mention them? There were other things Mance might have said. I’m kind of hoping they have the purpose of kicking Ramsay in his hind end when it counts the most. Mance’s 400 men (20 x 20) could make a lot of difference in the Bastard Bowl, or whatever they are calling it.Maybe it will be like Mance’s thank-you from beyond for Jon’s mercy.

      With Euron as an unknown but exciting addition, and everything else, I’m so excited for this season to start.

      Euron Spice! 🙂

      As for the 400 wildings, it depends on how Jon attacks Winterfell. He could use a smaller force to go through the tunnels to attack from the inside. While he has the larger army on the outside. That would be the smartest idea. He needs to use the Bolton’s lack of knowledge about Winterfell against them.

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    43. Gravemaster:
      Anyone seen this new image of Jaime on a white horse? Found this on a russian website. Looks like from a year-ender video, don’t know the original source.
      https://pp.vk.me/c627820/v627820771/312a8/CIFhS-wVXIs.jpg

      It’s cool to have a new picture! But it’s not a promotional shot; it’s taken from footage from the show itself. So I guess there’s a new teaser around, that has been leaked? Hopefully someone finds it.

      Greenjones:
      r-hard,

      Yep. You can see Mace’s helmet in the corner of the image too.

      It’s just a common Tyrell helmet. Mace’s helmet has a large feather.

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    44. nice actor ,nice voice, Now we need to see him as euron, i hope he has cool clothes and not the hair of loras like when he was filming, i hope his hair is long. ans who knows with his eye-patch

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    45. Euron is one of the most interesting and mysterious characters in the series. I can’t help but want to know more about him and what his real goals and motivations are.

      One thing I’m sure of is that he’s connected to

      Bloodraven somehow. There’s a lot of textual stuff (the most obvious being his “Crow’s Eye” shtick) implying a possible connection of some sort, and he also mentioned having dreams where he could “fly” as a child. I wonder if he has powers like Bran and Jojen, and if he’s being influenced by (or perhaps even working with) Bloodraven somehow.

      There’s also

      the warlocks. Euron has three warlocks imprisoned on his ship and has presumably been using them for their magical powers as well as their knowledge of Dany and her dragons.

      Euron definitely has a significant part to play in coming events. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a player in the endgame, or will have at least significantly influenced the endgame if he doesn’t make it that far. Either way, I’m eager to see what he’ll do next.

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    46. Khal Daniel:
      I feel like adding him in this late in the show where we are nearing the end and need to start winding down may indicate how big Eurons role in the story must be. Of course I always thought he would make a pretty decent impact in the books to come. Any thoughts?

      Not a book reader here, but I believe Euron’s role may be to leave Westeros even more devastated and vulnerable before the Winter finally arrives more south than in the extreme north. The wars have been over for a few seasons leaving the countryside partly ruined, incompetent Lannisters are in charge, fanatic religious groups have grown in power, long-term Lannister enemies are slowly rearing their head (Martells). This is the right time for an all-out invasion from outside (Euron), in order to leave the Kingdom even more desolate and ruined, so that when Winter comes, there will be no defense. In short, Euron may be the right recipe to bring about the darkest hour to Westeros.

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    47. Euron is the only “evil” character in this story involved with both politics and magic. He was created to be an antagonist to Dany in S7 probably.

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    48. kit_hepburn,

      Yes, Martin has certainly spoken about playing with reader’s expectations. In fact, he’s even said it has always been his intention to play with reader’s expectations.

      I guess, though, our expectations are easily played with since…what was it…oh, yes, “most fantasy fans aren’t used to reading books that actually tell stories.”

      That has to be one of the more supercilious comments I’ve read in a while.

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    49. At this time last year we had an IMAX Experience announcement, trailer date, and A Day in the Life documentary date. They are really holding out right now.

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    50. You should watch Borgen, where Pilou stars. Amazing political tv show. Better than House of Cards, for example. And deeply realistic.

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    51. Javi from Los Siete Reinos,

      I’ve heard nothing but great things about it. As far as I know, though, it’s only available through netflix in the States, and I don’t have netflix. Alas, I’ll have to wait until it is available some other way. 🙁

      Arkash,

      mau,

      I’m sure both of you are correct, either HS, or HS and Unella. I just started getting really excited by the idea of Jaime trying to help Maragery (I’d guess because he couldn’t help his daughter, so he’s gong to try and do what he can to help his son) in what I’d guess is in direct opposition to Cersei, so wasn’t thinking of the obvious.

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    52. Jack Bauer 24:
      At this time last year we had an IMAX Experience announcement, trailer date, and A Day in the Life documentary date. They are really holding out right now.

      do you know when filming ended for season 5 ? was it around the same time as this year ?

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    53. Although I am intrigued by this casting decision I can’t help but lament the fact James Purefoy would of been perfect for the role 🙁

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    54. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Absolutely. GRRM’s storytelling is a mix of straight tropes and subverted tropes and this idea that the entire story can be predicted from the original outline is just a shallow interpretation of the work. GRRM is certainly enjoying shocking his readers. Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of the two Stark girls dies in S6.

      Who made that quote about fantasy novels and telling stories? I’ve been away. Did I miss some really hilarious board fight? Drat. I hate it when I miss the good stuff.

      I think Jaime is definitely looking up the steps of Baelor in that shot, which means he’s looking at the High Sparrow, the Sparrows guarding the entrance or Marge and Tommen gone Sparrow. Either way, Jaime is certainly working against Cersei. I’m sure she’s somewhere internally raging while this is going on.

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    55. Nymeria Warrior Queen:

      I just started getting really excited by the idea of Jaime trying to help Maragery in what I’d guess is in direct opposition to Cersei, so wasn’t thinking of the obvious.

      I’m excited too. The Cersei-Jaime dynamic is one of the things I’m really looking forward to.

      I guess riding in golden armour on a white horse in front of a massive host of Tyrell soldiers and demanding Margeary’s freedom will probably boost his ego, so that he goes into I’m-the-new-Tywin-mode at the siege of Riverrun which could result in the argument he was reported to have with Brienne (IIRC it was reported that she’d storme out of his tent)

      Cersei’s arc on the other hand remains a conundrum for me. She will certainly be devastated by Myrcella’s death, but what will she do? It doesn’t look like that there will be a war with Dorne. Take a backseat and wait for her trial? Does not sound like Cersei…

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    56. Al Swearengen,

      I think Purefoy would have, too, Al (although I have to admit to having a bit of a crush on him), but I’m really excited to see what Asbæk does with the character.

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    57. Wimsey,

      That’s nice. I like how you didn’t address the fact that McDormand isn’t introduced until the first third of the film is over, and yet somehow, she’s still a protagonist. You know, the way others characters you would totally dismiss in ASOIAF aren’t introduced as PoVs until after the first book, characters like Sam, Davos, Jaime, Theon, Brienne, etc.

      My point is, when casting info, spoilers, or interviews about characters that aren’t one of the “Big 5” are brought forth onto this site and posters start expressing excitement and interest over said character, that isn’t an invitation to be lectured on Literature 101, overarching narratives, the nature of primary protagonists, and why thinking a character who wasn’t introduced in the first book might actually be important/interesting/relevant. Of course there are basic story structures that Martin is using that can be applied in the analysis here. Thank you for your insight, we know that. We knew it a hundred threads ago. But your refusal to see anything else except basic literary formulas is, I suspect, going to leave you perplexed and confused on at least one or two counts when this story is over.

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    58. kit_hepburn,

      I don’t want to sound like Wimsey’s advocate here, but I suspect there will be many, MANY fans that will be confused by Martin’s ending. Somehow I doubt Wimsey will be among them.

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    59. HotPinkLipstick: I’m sure she’s somewhere internally raging…

      …and drinking. Don’t forget drinking. 🙂

      As for the quote, no, you didn’t miss any hilarious board fight…hahaha. It was from a post a little upthread. Actually, I shouldn’t have used quotation marks since I was paraphrasing, not directly quoting (the sentiment is the same, but still).

      I really should have just laughed to myself and let it go.

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    60. Al Swearengen,

      Yeah Purefoy was my first pick as well. I still think he would’ve been one of the best choices for the part, but I like what I’ve seen of Pilou so far. I think he’ll be this season’s Pedro Pascal.

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    61. HotPinkLipstick:

      Which is why I wouldn’t be surprised if at least one of the two Stark girls dies in S6.

      I would be very surprised! The whole learning-from-mentor-arc of the Stark children has just begun, neither Arya, nor Sansa have done something substantial to really impact the overarching story and there are still two seasons to go after the next one.
      Arya needs to come back to Westeros and Sansa will most probably have to deal with Littlefinger. I think Arya will make it through to S8, Sansa probably too, but if she must die, it won’t be before the end of S7.

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    62. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Well, she is still the High Sparrow’s prisoner, even though she’s being moved to a more comfortable cage. He might deny her wine. Wait, Qyburn will call it medicinal and smuggle it in.

      I’m going to pull out some truthing. There are some posts that I start and find just too (insert unkind adjective here) to read. And there are only so many times you can read that stuff and giggle before it begins to irritate. It’s like seeing a Tumblr post ranting on feminism which is clearly written by a first year college student who took an introductory class. You appreciate the enthusiasm and the effort, but the understanding just isn’t there.

      I hope you’re having a lovely night. And why can’t there be some drama? Or some news? Or something interesting?

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    63. Wylie,

      Really? I think there are too many living Starks. For the ending to be bittersweet, as GRRM has stated, some of them have to go. I think Rickon is definitely a goner, Bran mind melds with a tree. Either Sansa or Arya has to go. My pick is Arya because her story is such a dead end for character development. I mean, what becomes of a child assassin once she grows up? I just don’t see her recovering her humanity.

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    64. Wylie:
      HotPinkLipstick,

      I wonder if we live to see the day when we can go all neener-neener on each others butts after having read ADoS

      There will be tears.

      The only tears happening will be because the book never comes out 😉

      And actually, I think the only character I would shed a tear for would be Brienne. Perhaps Sam. I don’t identify enough with any of the other characters. Well, maybe Jaime, but his death would be somewhat deserved.

      I’m sure once the series is over, I’ll watch it again in sort of a Harper’s Island-type way, thoroughly enjoying each death and naming the death episodes things like “Gurgle” and “Chop.”

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    65. HotPinkLipstick,

      I have having a good night, thanks. I hope you are, as well. Drama can be great fun, but I’m more in the mood for popping some popcorn for everyone, kicking back, and watching other people’s drama. 🙂

      As for your truthing, I’m sure we all feel that way. I do. I just know there are times I say to myself, “self, you enjoy yourself much more when you just let certain things go,” and then I turn around and can’t quite keep myself from some snarky quip. hahaha

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    66. HotPinkLipstick,

      Wow that’s some spring-cleaning! 🙂

      Still, if one of the Stark girls would die in S6, yes, that would surprise me. But don’t get me wrong, sadly, I would not be surprised to see either Arya or Sansa (not both) dying eventually (most probably S8). I can’t really remember where I heard it, but I find the idea that Arya wargs into Nymeria for good and lives out the rest of her life with a literal wolf pack quite intriguing. Maybe a bit like Frodo who never recovers from the Witch Kings’s stabbing and has to leave for the Undying Lands to be free of the pain.

      Oh and I totally forgot about Rickon. Poor little Rickon. Sadly I agree he might die in S6 or – that was one previous idea – in S7 at the hand of Littlerfinger who wants to get rid of the heir in order to keep Sansa as wardeness.

      On the other hand, the permanent psychological damage could very well be bitter enough for an ending. The sweet thing could be that the Stark siblings will be together again, but all very much broken by all that has happened to them.

      Edit: I think the Arya theory might have been discussed in one of Alt Shift X’s videos…

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    67. You have to take authors preference into account as well. The original povs left are Bran, Arya, Jon, Sansa, Tyrion and Daenerys.

      But GRRM has also mentioned Tyrion, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Victarion (I’m 90% sure he said Theon too) as his favourites, (can’t recall if Jon and Bran were in there too, it was a blog post in the last year maybe two). We all know how much he loves Tyrion and Dany.

      Arya is tricky as I’m suspicious that he may have intended to kill her off at one point, but both he and his wife love her. I admit she is one of the deaths I would struggle with the most and killing her off is a risky choice regardless of his love for her, as one she is almost universally loved, she is a main character, and she is a Stark. Honestly there is only so many dead Starks a reader will accept before the ‘books are broken’ and I feel we might be reaching that point. One thing I know for sure, the books will not end with every Stark dead. It’s hard to see Rickon invoking that reaction as he isn’t a POV and is largely absent from other POVs and has little impression when he is.

      But I remember being pretty surprised at Victarion being included, as he’s not introduced until AFFC and his POV comes even later..
      So the question is, despite coming in so late, will GRRMs preference for him end up making him more important than originally intended?

      Theon is less surprising because while not an original POV and skipping two books in the middle as a POV, he has been a POV since the second book so he was introduced as a POV a lot earlier than some others (is Davos the only other surviving POV introduced in ACOF? I think he might be) AND he was introduced very early on in AGOT.

      GRRM has had a tendency to go off on some tangents that became bigger than expected, BUT at the same time there are some rules he must adhere to or else it’s just bad writing.

      PS he has said frequently in fact that he likes to mess with readers expectations, and that he loves shocking them.

      Also while perhaps not meant to be taken seriously, there are plenty of fantasy writers that go against tropes etc, and while I am loathe to admit it and love GRRMs writing, there’s quite a few that do it better.

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    68. Wylie,

      I don’t thinking being a Stark is a reason not to kill a character. And I, for one, would be just fine if every Stark died. The Starks are one aspect of the story; they aren’t the whole story. Before Sansa goes though, I’d expect her to push out a Stark heir.

      The difference between Cal and Balon is that Cal was fabulous and Balon sucks. 🙂

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    69. Ahh HotPinkLipstick posted a great post while I was writing mine.

      Yeah, while I have said there’s only so many dead Starks that will be accepted, I think we are in for AT LEAST one more. I do get annoyed at people theorizing as Rickon being King in The North etc, as it just feels like such a cop out, he’s had zero impact so far and while I agree he’s been kept around for a reason, I think its more to do with the OTHER Starks, being a plot point and impact for the readers, rather than doing anything note-worthy himself. I just feel like he’s gotta go.

      I agree with a lot of your points on Arya, and there’s been a lot of textual evidence and overall feeling that’s she just DOOMED. But GRRM loves her, so I’m conflicted. I had once thought that she’d come into contact with Stoneheart and that would veer her off her current path but I’m less sure now. There’s been some heavy sacrificial themes with Jon and Dany too, so I feel as though one of them might die. Sansa could also die, but likely not until she’s done at least one major significant thing politically (while I like her, there’s nothing so far, though the same could be said that all of Danys politicking so far has been meaningless but alas..)

      I’m half convinced that Bran will stay beyond the wall, I’m struggling to see a way out of that situation.

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    70. Being a Stark is definitely not a reason to not be killed off, and are not the entire story and he’s definitely enjoyed killing them off so far.

      But he has tried to nurture postive feelings towards the Starks more than the others (even unfairly so at times) and has more of them as protags on purpose for a narrative reason. Which is why both being a Stark puts you in danger but at the same time as the number of Starks decreases the more likely that the surviving ones odds increases as there almost definitely has to be at least one left in the end. But I can see GRRM messing with people’s expectation of reunion, ala killing one off as soon as they are reunited or not reuniting others at all. After all the sooner you reunite with another Stark the more your odds go down because he often doesn’t have too many povs in the same place.

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    71. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      If you’re looking for some drama, I heard the Outlander fandom exploded or something last weekend. I don’t watch Outlander, but I saw some gnashing of teeth.

      Lysarra,

      I firmly believe that just because a character is well-liked doesn’t mean they’re safe. And well, I can see that GRRM intends the reader to sympathize with the Starks, he doesn’t really succeed. I feel for Bran. I feel for Rickon. Ned and Cat though? Robb? Not so much. I never agreed with their choices, so the consequences were just, “Okay, the story just got more interesting,” for me.

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    72. The same goes for Tyrion who is the only main character I haven’t mentioned. His internal dialogue in ADWD was unbearbly insuffering. I cannot decide whether this was intentional or not, whether he was suppose to become so unlikeable and will correct his ways in TWOW or will continue to get worse and he will become an antagonist (cannot see that happening as the show has shown that his meeting with Dany at the very least will not go entirely badly for him in the book) or whether it wasn’t suppose to come off as it did.
      I would like it if I was able to enjoy his character again, but the problems for me started in ASOS.

      I have wondered if Jon, Dany or Tyrion would become an antagonist eventually as they are the closest ones to being THE main character, and he already screwed with people by making people think Ned was the protag and killing him off. Though I’m glad he did, on first read he’s likeable but when you are objective he really is the worst aspects of Sansa and Jon personified. Tried to stick to honor bordering on madness, naivety, trying to believe in people’s inherent goodness, buying into too many ideas of the way the world is suppose to work, Sansa’s disappointment in KG and Jon’s disappointment in the Wall both reminded me of Ned, Sansa at the very least seems to be learning that most stories are false, but not quick enough. Whereas Jon’s idealisation got him stabbed (on re-read of ADWD it easier to see how much of his actions were about trying to be a hero instead of his responsibilites). Cat and Arya were both more suspicious and untrusting, but they also share some other unlikeable traits.

      Bran is an interesting example as he seems to have loved stories about heroes etc, but hasn’t bought into them as much – though it may be the fall from the tower + the greendreams that did that.

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    73. Fully agree with the comments about GRRM definitely INTENDING the reader to sympathize with the Starks but not always actually succeeding. It’s very difficult to sympathize at all with Ned on re-read. I felt more empathy with Cat because she saw which mistakes were stupid (and while some were entirely out of her control) I felt there were others that she could have changed. I didn’t sympathize at all with Robb, I found some of his actions infuriating. Jon, I can sympathize with his conflict but not his actions (e.g. to the NW he said he wanted to save Hardhome because of they dies they’d have to deal with more WW – but internally it was about saving innocents etc which is what Mormont warned him of – putting individuals above the realm. And though he repeatedly tells Stannis he can’t get involved he repeatedly did, he broke a bunch of vows and knew about Mance etc and then REVEALED that he did all this shit behind the NWs back when he read the letter aloud to all of them. Bowen Marsh said he was worried about choosing the wrong side and in the eyes of the realm Jon most definitely got involved which would be enough to send the crown against them, and he got involved with the Karstarks, publicly, and did enough that the realm would think the Boltons justified in attacking – and he told the NWs all of this thinking that they would be more concerned about how Ramsay sounded like a monster than he fact that Jon’s actions had put the realm and Wall at risk – I like Jon but he pretty much deserved to get stabbed.

      I do think Bran is the most sympathetic Stark, I think he has a good balance of trying to be smart and honorable. He’s had a lot thrown his way and seems to try to make the best of his circumstances. Tyrion and Dany and sometimes Arya can come off as whiny. And Sansa’s progress is frustratingly slow.

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    74. HotPinkLipstick:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      If you’re looking for some drama, I heard the Outlander fandom exploded or something last weekend. I don’t watch Outlander, but I saw some gnashing of teeth.

      Lysarra,

      I firmly believe that just because a character is well-liked doesn’t mean they’re safe. And well, I can see that GRRM intends the reader to sympathize with the Starks, he doesn’t really succeed. I feel for Bran. I feel for Rickon. Ned and Cat though? Robb? Not so much. I never agreed with their choices, so the consequences were just, “Okay, the story just got more interesting,” for me.

      Why did they explode?

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    75. kit_hepburn,

      I agree with your points completely. I generally enjoy Wimsey’s comments as they are often quite insightful. However, they are not always correct but Wimsey writes as if he/she knows the absolute truth of everything. Your relation to lectures is spot on as I think this is a very common thing in academia with senior professors (where I came from we called them C4 profs for their paygrade) who have a lot of power and start to think they have also absolute knowledge. They are often right about things but certainly not always.

      As such I hope Wimsey continues to comment but a little less absolutes would be nice 🙂

      As to Pilou, after the interview I think I can see him as Euron and I do think it is going to be a lot of fun whether he will be just a one-season wonder or more impactful to the main story.

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    76. Lysarra,

      I remember one of George interviews when they asked him about Victarion and he only said about his character: ”Dumb as a stump.”
      It’s just suggest that there is only Euron who really matters.

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    77. This interview practically has me sold on this guy as Euron.

      He looks like Alfie Allen’s uncle, He has a deep, gravelly voice and quite the piratey(!) smile.

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    78. I wonder how this will work. Euron it’s a extreme character, both in personality, actions and looks. So it could be awesome onscreen or plainly horrible and absurd ala Sand Snakes. Anyway, good luck, Pilou!

      As for where his character is going, it would be a delicious irony if Euron

      steals one of Dany’s dragons, and kills someone important, like Tyrion or Dany herself

      PS: I’m still on the Mad Mikkelsen hype train, though. The fancasts were amazing XD

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    79. Lysarra,

      I don’t think GRRM has given a list of his favorite POVs. The only favorite he has acknowledged is Tyrion . otherwise he has always said he loves all his POVs. I read somewhere that his wife’s favorite character is Arya. But that does not necessarily mean anything in terms of who will survive. I think Arya is doomed too. If she dies, it will be at the end which would be S8. There has been some foreshadowing for her death in the books too. I feel the Starks to survive in the end will be Sansa and Bran. Sansa is a survivor, I think she will make it to the end. And Bran too, I think will make it. Rickon will probably be the next Stark to die. As for Jon and Dany, I think only one of the two will survive in the end.

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    80. Wimsey:
      Primary antagonists have the same thing: they have to be introduced at the outset in some manner.So when a character really is not introduced until the 3rd act, that character is necessarily limited in terms of how much impact he/she can have.This is not an “arbitrary rule”: it’s just reality.

      What I find funny is that you say this, but at the same time are in the favour of “Rh’llor is the real final boss” theory. Not even “the White Walkers and Rh’llor are both equally bad for interfering with humanity” (aka the Babylon V ending), but straight-out “it’s Rh’llor”. And how would that contribute to the story? What would be the difference between one supernatural power being the “true evil” and another? None. Not to mention, this would require a lot of boring left-side-of-the-field revelations in the final season, precisely when you say it’s too late for such things. It would be like the Deathly Hallows in Harry Potter.

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    81. You can tell he has an accent if you listen for it but I imagine the Ameican audience won’t notice it at all. If you’re from the UK , I think we can hear it but then again, none of the accents in Westeros really match up to any particular region anyway except the north seems to be anywhere except London in the UK and some of the Wildings have Nordic accents. The age thing isn’t perfect but sure it won’t affect things. My only worry is that he doesn’t carry the kind of menace Euron does but we shall see when he is actually in the role. Still working my way through Tudors and I don’t know if it’s just the eyepatch but Alan Van Sprang could’ve been an excellent Euron! Ah well that ship has sailed!

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    82. HotPinkLipstick,

      That would be Wimsey short, what GRRM is doing is writing a real novel in a fantasy setting. And that is going to throw off the expectations of most fantasy readers because, to be blunt, most fantasy fans read very few books that actually tell stories. It was a quote that had me debating whether to enter the fray but decided it wasn’t worth my time.

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    83. Raoul_Duke: I agree with your points completely. I generally enjoy Wimsey’s comments as they are often quite insightful. However, they are not always correct but Wimsey writes as if he/she knows the absolute truth of everything. Your relation to lectures is spot on as I think this is a very common thing in academia with senior professors (where I came from we called them C4 profs for their paygrade) who have a lot of power and start to think they have also absolute knowledge. They are often right about things but certainly not always. As such I hope Wimsey continues to comment but a little less absolutes would be nice

      Gods, couldn’t have put it better myself. Now I just skip over his comments because of the rigid lecturing. Remember when he declared over and over that we’d never see the Ironborn on the show because they aren’t antagonists or protagonists? Or when EVERY story in s5 would be “kill the X, become the Y” and then in reality…nope nope nope. Tedious.

      Anyways, regarding Euron, he really reminded me strongly of Alfie Allen. Something about the way he moves his head when he talks, his eyes, his inflection in his voice…I can see why the producers picked him. On the accent, to this expat American Pilou has a pretty strong Scandinavian accent – I missed a number of his words because they sounded garbled to me, but that doesn’t mean he can’t do a good English accent for the role, like Nikolai. He’s a good actor, I loved him in 1864. I wanted Mads, but am excited to see what he brings to the table.

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    84. Yaga: What I find funny is that you say this, but at the same time are in the favour of “Rh’llor is the real final boss” theory.

      I have never espoused that. What I have espoused is that R’hllor is a real force with which the protagonists will have to deal, just as they will have to deal with the Walkers. Indeed, the Babylon 5 analogy I have used is that R’hllor might be sort of like the Vorlons (superficially on the side of the protagonists but really with its own agenda) whereas the Walkers might be sort of like the Shadows (the protagonists currently are clearly against them, or at least the two protagonists who know about the Walkers). Of course, the stakes and goals will be different – the Walkers are not trying to “stir the pot” and R’hllor is not trying to impose order – but it is going to be important for Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Bran, etc., to work out what those two forces really mean, what the best mutual outcome for all concerned will be and/or also how to get humanity out from under the yokes of those forces.

      Keep in mind that this emphasizes one other huge difference between R’hllor and Euron in terms of how big a role they can play as antogonist in the over-arching story. R’hllor was introduced fairly early as a potential power of some importance (the 2nd book), whereas Euron was introduced much later. Moreover, we’ve seen R’hllor having wide-ranging effects: clearly this is going to be very important in Essos as well as Westeros, and it’s going to affect Jon, Daeny, Tyrion and Bran at the very least, and possibly Arya as well. Euron seems to be a localized effect: he might not affect any of the primary protagonists. (He might: but he might not.)

      But people do need to stop telling themselves that GRRM is reinventing literature or that he can do anything he wants and still write a tale that will be considered to be any good. He wrote Thrones to set up Spring, just as all writers write the beginning of a story to set up the end of the story. And in doing so, GRRM (just like every other author) limited what he could do in the end.

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    85. ash,

      Oh…uhm. Skip over those. And by the comment above this, I can see I’m not the only one. I never understand why people erect this rigid framework in their heads and then expect any story to conform to that framework. It’s especially tiresome when they try to insist their framework is absolutely accurate.

      The ASoIaF/GoT fandom is as large and varied as the books themselves. We all bring our race, gender, age and experiences to the table when we are analyzing the books/show. So, the internal analytical framework used by a black, lesbian female, while interesting and on point in several instances, is not going to match that of a white, heterosexual male, which may also be interesting and on point in certain instances.

      We all identify with different characters and archetypes and that colors our perception.

      That’s what makes interacting on message boards and forums interesting, seeing those different perspectives. But it’s uninteresting to watch someone dismiss those other ideas over and over in an insistence of rightness.

      Summary, boring lectures by rigid peeps with limited world views are boring and unworthy of my reading time. 😉

      But anyway. Pilou? Hey boo. Lookin’ fine.

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    86. Wimsey

      But people do need to stop telling themselves that GRRM is reinventing literature or that he can do anything he wants and still write a tale that will be considered to be any good. He wrote Thrones to set up Spring, just as all writers write the beginning of a story to set up the end of the story. And in doing so, GRRM (just like every other author) limited what he could do in the end.

      Nope.

      He wrote A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, AND A Storm of Swords to set up Spring. Since you and several others are so fond of citing that original outline as evidence of his original intentions, then you should have noticed that what he proposes as his first book in the original outline actually contains the events of three books that were published. That’s because he originally intended the three books to be one book (with the equivalent of the Red Wedding occurring at the end of the first novel). That’s one reason why there was a shorter gap between those books – they were originally conceived as one. When he sat down to write that first book, he realized he logistically couldn’t accomplish all he wanted to (last I checked, it’s quite difficult to bind 4000 pages into a novel), so he reworked his plan and created three books. Book 1 in this series isn’t Act 1; Books 1-3 are Act 1.

      So I mean, if you want to apply your rule that the beginning of the story sets up the end of the story, then by all means do so. You should probably start by realizing that anything introduced in Books 1-3 is set-up for the rest of the story, and anything contained in those three books might be important for the end.

      On-topic to this thread: Oh wait, aren’t the Ironborn and Theon’s PoV introduced in one of those books?

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    87. kit_hepburn,

      Wait. I’m experiencing confusion. After all of GRRM’s talk of being a gardener-style writer and not an architect-style writer, is there really an argument out there that GRRM …is actually an architect?

      I mean, when the man tells you he has a basic plan but plants seeds and sees what grows and takes it from there, does anyone really think he’s rigidly going to stick to that original plan? Whut?

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    88. Abyss,

      Thanks for posting that, and the FireFox only part! (I usually use Chrome.)

      Given the mention of Babylon 5, that shot reminds me of the opening sequence from Season 3 (probably the best!) where all of the characters were introduced with that sort of head-turn profile.

      HotPinkLipstick: I mean, when the man tells you he has a basic plan but plants seeds and sees what grows and takes it from there, does anyone really think he’s rigidly going to stick to that original plan?

      It depends on what you mean by “rigidly.” Having planted the seeds in the first book, he is limited to the seeds that he sewed then: his allegorical flower garden is not going to magically turn into a vegetable garden, and he’s not going to get tulips if he didn’t plant any. And he certainly has an end-goal in mind, just as all gardeners do. It’s the allegorical weeds, droughts, etc., in between that get in the way of the start and the desired end. However, I really doubt that he’s changed the basic end much: after all, that’s the punchline towards storytellers always are aiming, and it’s often the thing that really clicks in first.

      Indeed, from what we know of GRRM’s struggles to complete works is that he has a beginning and an end in sight: but he trips over the middle of getting to the ends. But anybody who writes anything professionally can tell you that the middle always is the toughest: the introduction and conclusion come much more easily than the exact details connecting them!

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    89. Abyss,
      Thank you, Ser Abyss of Gifland, your efforts are always appreciated! 😀

      I hadn’t seen that clip of Ramsay with (apparently) Chris Pratt behind him, just the still photo that was posted here a while ago. I don’t know how common this is in other countries, but here in the UK when people pose for photos together one will often stick their fingers up behind another’s head to give them ‘bunny ears’. In the gif, as the Bolton banner waves around it looks like it’s doing that to the House Pratt guy. (Ramsay makes me very nervous, I have to try and find light relief in anything to do with him! 🙁 )

      EDIT: HotPinkLipstick it’s the Olympics this year and they have an event which is basically horses dancing. Maybe Jaime could enter that 😀

        Quote  Reply

    90. Wimsey,
      Oh, I didn’t know you used a Babylon 5 analogy anywhere as well. Just for clarity, whatever that was, I wasn’t referring to it.

      That said, technically, Euron was introduced early (as one of Theon’s ‘uncles’). And despite what you insist, it is extremely possible for a player introduced relatively late to become major. Think Star Wars 4-6, ie seen as Luke’s (as opposed to Anakin’s) story. The Emperor was completely offscreen in ANH – I think there was only a single line referring to him at all (the one where he dissolved the Senate). He had a single scene in Empire. But by Jedi, he had become an overwhelming presence and the major antagonist.

      …It all depends, really, on the amount of screen presence. From a certain point of view (the *correct* one), Sauron is just a postscript to the story of Morgoth, and LotR is just the tail end of the Silmarillion.

      Ergo: I find it pretty unlikely, but it *is* possible that, just as in the Emperor example, the story will end with Euron as the final boss.

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    91. Thanks for all nice words from all of you. No big deal, I have fun doing it. 🙂

      Lulus Mum,

      That’s the Lord of House Bunnyton! You don’t make fun of him! The Targaryens have their dragons and the Bunnytons have their bunnies!

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    92. It looks like I missed an interesting conversation, last night. I skimmed through the posts, but now I’m going to back back and reread and think about some of what was said.

      HotPinkLipstick: If you’re looking for some drama, I heard the Outlander fandom exploded or something last weekend. I don’t watch Outlander, but I saw some gnashing of teeth.

      I rarely actually seek drama. It seems to happen enough I don’t have to go looking for it (I’m a mod on one small site and an admin. on another small site, both peopled with folks originally brought together by sports [I’m a rabid college basketball fan], and there’s more than enough drama there!). I also don’t watch Outlander, but I do appreciate you letting me know. 🙂

      Regarding whether Asbæk can pull off Euron’s menace, his face appears quite malleable and expressive (I’ve been looking at various pictures of him on google), and between that and his voice, I think he’ll pull of menacing very well. Given I wasn’t a big fan of the II stuff, I’m actually surprised to be looking forward to his character so much. As I mentioned before, though, if they stick to what we know of him from the books (especially how it seems like there’s always some woman in some state of undress around him), we’re going to need earplugs to deal with all the screaming.

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    93. Abyss,
      Aaaaaah I’m REALLY scared now. I thought Ramsay was the one to worry about. I’ll be yelling “Run away, run away!” whenever he appears! This is why I like spoilers, so I can be emotionally prepared for bunny carnage rather than have it sprung on me 😉

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    94. Lulus Mum: I don’t know how common this is in other countries, but here in the UK when people pose for photos together one will often stick their fingers up behind another’s head to give them ‘bunny ears’.

      Heeheehee, I do that all the time!

      Abyss
      I’m glad to know you enjoy making the gifs (given the way some of us clamor for you, it’s a good thing), but I still thank you!!!

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    95. Yaga: Oh, I didn’t know you used a Babylon 5 analogy anywhere as well. Just for clarity, whatever that was, I wasn’t referring to it.

      Ah, sorry! Hodor’s Bastard and I (among others) have discussed the parallels and differences between the two series before: I thought that you were alluding to that. Both Straczynski (aka, JMS: which saves a lot of spelling errors!) and GRRM had similar goals and backgrounds: JMS wanted to ditch the classic tropes of SciFi TV and elevate it to adult TV, GRRM wanted to ditch the classic tropes of “epic” fantasy and elevate it to adult literature; JMS & GRRM both have very jaded views about organized religion and present alternatives to the “gods” (ancient races, people in trees) and their motivations (it’s about the gods, not us), both see peoples’ tendencies to advance personal agendas to set up lots of trouble for everyone else (and the individuals!), and both revel in the Faulkneresque story-type of “every protagonist is his/her/its own worst antagonist.”

      That written, I still very much think that we won’t see anything like the Vorlon or Shadow agendas in the Others or R’hllor or anywhere else.

      However, JMS (like Rowling, Abrams and Moore) does offer some other parallels. JMS was very active online (if you think that I overuse the Chekhov’s Gun parallel, then trust me: I have nothing on JMS!), and he brought up more than once that some of us had more-or-less guessed at the “ending.” And he said both that, yeah, it sort of bugged him, but that he also knew that if he wrote the story properly, then a minority of us would figure it out in advance and the rest of us would go “Oh, I should have seen it coming.” Rowling, Moore and Abrams all said similar things: and GRRM himself has admitted that fans have more-or-less predicted some of the big gags to come.

      Still, that did not stop displeased fans of B5, HP, Lost or BSG from claiming that the authors clearly had been “making it up as they went along” when those fans disliked the ending! GRRM will almost certainly get some of that, too. (There probably are other examples, too: but one can follow only so many fandoms.)

      Yaga: That said, technically, Euron was introduced early (as one of Theon’s ‘uncles’).

      Characters are introduced when they appear on screen or in presence on page, not when they are named. Simply alluding to them is not the same at all: after all, nobody watching the show is going to remember anything about Theon’s uncles all of these years later. (Most people don’t remember the names of most of the regularly appearing supporting characters for TV shows, GoT or otherwise: on screen, the face is the character, not the name.)

      As for the Emperor in Star Wars, he is not the antagonist of the series: Vader is. The Emperor is an important character in the final story of the series, but he’s not that important for the whole series: remember, when Lucas first started it, the Emperor was not a Sith Lord and people like Grand Moff Tarkin were angling to supplant him! Vader was always the enemy: and supposedly the idea of Vader being defeated by redemption was always in the works. Now, it is much less clear whether Vader was supposed to be Luke’s father from the start (and thus Vader is defeated & Anakin is saved). Lucas says that was the original idea, then he backed off from it, but then went back to the idea; who knows what the truth is, as I doubt that Lucas himself truly remembers it properly anymore.

      Of course, the only thing fans really debated back then was: would Leia wind up with Luke or Han?!?!? (I was in the “She winds up with Chewbacca” camp: we were a distinct minority…. 😀 ) Seriously, it would be fascinating to know what fans would have debated about Return of the Jedi if the Internet had been a widespread thing then.

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    96. Wimsey,

      Having planted the seeds in the first book, he is limited to the seeds that he sewed then

      And that is where your argument falls apart. No. He’s not. He never was. No writer ever is. How in the world can anyone think that? It’s straight up, hard-core stupid.

      Dude, I cannot with this shallow, limited understanding.

      Peace, love and geese, bro. Back to not reading you.

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    97. Nymeria Warrior Queen: Heeheehee, I do that all the time!

      It’s one of those things that divides proper grown ups from us less er…adultier adults, I think. If you still think it’s funny when you’re 48 (as I am) you are never going to manage the proper grown up thing 😀

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    98. Lulus Mum: If you still think it’s funny when you’re 48 (as I am) you are never going to manage the proper grown up thing

      heh, at some point, we just have to accept that it’s just who we are, not that we are “grown up!” (Of course, my parents both went to their graves expecting that I would some day “grow up”: my goal is to not do that for my son.)

      Besides, doesn’t neoteny drive a lot of evolution? 😀

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    99. Wimsey,
      Mmmm I learned a new word today “neotney”. Although I seem to remember you are an academic in the field of biology so not sure how much use I’ll get out of it? Next time someone accuses me of being childish I can say in a very haughty manner “actually I think you’ll find it’s paedomorphosis, so NER!” (and blow a raspberry for emphasis) 😀

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    100. Lulus Mum: It’s one of those things that divides proper grown ups from us less er…adultier adults, I think

      adultier adults = LOL. Then you, too, have had your share of rolling eyes, patient sighs and tsk-tsking from other family members. I’d bet they don’t completely approve of GoT, either. Bunny ears to them, then, dear.

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    101. HotPinkLipstick,

      Umm maybe we can make this the thread of who doesn’t read who’s comments, so we can all feel better.

      I’ll go first. I read everyone’s if I have time. If not, which does happen ( I confess), I read everyone’s who’s ever registered at Fleabottom that I know of. If I don’t have time for that either, I read Al’s (if he does comment)! Very interesting stuff this sharing, right?! Brings A LOT to the conversation. /sarcasm

      Maybe we should not be confessing this stuff. We don’t even know if it’s true when 2 posts later we see another response from the same person to the poster who is supposed to be ignored followed by yet another announcement that he/she is not reading posts!

      I hope Wimsey and others who get told stuff like this, don’t respond to “I’m not reading your comments while I respond to them nonetheless”. This is not the first time I see these here.

      That being said, Wimsey I didn’t know you know what all fantasy fans want or expect. It’s depressing for me to think you KNOW I’m not expecting a story! (Btw how could you possibly know that?!) Granted I’m not a specific genre fan, however I do appreciate fantasy just like any other genre. Rather swiping generalization there. Which is a mistake.

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    102. Lulus Mum,

      I’m not too far behind you age-wise, and, no, I will never entirely be a proper adult. I will continue to make bunny ears, and jump in puddles (should I be so inspired, and I often am), and do whatever other little silly things which bring me joy and laughter, despite the overly uptight (in my view) may think of it. There’s more than enough in life and the world about which to be serious. Those moments I can find to feed the child in my heart I will gladly and gratefully embrace.

      Back to Mr. Crow’s Eye – I think part of the reason I’m starting to look so forward to his character is I cannot get a good read on what impact I think he is going to have, although I do think it will be significant.

      The fact Euron has Warlocks with him is really making me start to wonder if something won’t be playing out involving the Warlocks and the servants of R’hllor. It’s just the beginning of a thought, and I don’t know where it will lead me, if anywhere, as there are too many elements spread out over too much of that world (meaning both Essos and Westeros, where we have Mel in the far north and Warlocks in the far south).

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    103. HotPinkLipstick,

      Actually, for some things he is limited to what he sew by his own account. He talked about it in an interview. Don’t ask me when, but he was asked if he would ever change some things in the case people figured them out (obviously it was about Jon’s parentage), and he said that he thought about it, but decided against it, because he had already set it up very early. So changing it now and by doing so undoing all the foreshadowing, would not be satisfying for him and his readers.

      Look, I understand that you have a hard time with Wimsey’s somewhat nomothetic approach, but on the other hand, I have a hard time understanding why people think Martin is on some sort of literary dérive, where every chance encouter could completely derail the story.

      (Btw, English is my third language, so I hope the phrasing doesn’t give you a headache.)

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    104. Lulus Mum,

      Keep that reply handy, Lulu’s Mom! I don’t think Wimsey will call YOU childish (we know he did once and I marked him down, no worries! Retribution is comming!). I will be the first to put him in place as long as I’m not too late to the thread.

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    105. TheTouchofFrost,

      I think I got the reverse reaction to Iwan’s Ramsey! I was convinced he cannot possibly do softer or emotional roles because I saw him as Ramsey the psychopath first.

      Pilot looks like a perfectly happy human but I’m not sure if he cannot do menace. I heard he’s quite talented and hopefully he’ll pull it off.

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    106. Lulus Mum,

      It’s been many years since the class (I can’t even remember which class it was…hahaha), and I’m certainly no biologist, but I thought neoteny referred more to physical traits as opposed to what I’ll call emotional or psychological. In other words, usually applied in terms of someone’s appearance, as opposed to their behavior.

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    107. Thronetender,
      Luckily House Mum has a full complement of non-proper grown ups, but I have worked with some and they are strange people. The sort who were basically born middle aged, you sometimes see politicians like that.

      I’m always amazed at people who say they watch GoT with their family. It might be a generational thing though, I can imagine viewers with parents my age doing it – although watching separately, not together – but not where the kids are my age. My parents are in their 70s, tv ownership wasn’t even that common until they were young adults and it just didn’t show taboo stuff. They’re still shocked by swearing on tv, the amount and graphicness* of sex and violence in GoT would blow their minds and not in a good way 🙁

      * that is apparently a real word, I didn’t just make it up, although it doesn’t sound right

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    108. Someone thinks we’ll gonna have “introducing videos” or special promos/pics about the Greyjoys and the Iron Islands like they did last year with Dorne and the dornish characters?

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    109. Wylie,

      I agree there are some things which would not work if they were changed, but I also do not think there is one hard and fast rule which authors must follow, with any derivation from said rule leading to cries of “bad storytelling.”

      Third language? Wow!!!
      You, like several others around here for whom English is a 2nd or 3rd language, express yourself so well! It never ceases to amaze me, and it reminds how huge of a gap I have in my learning, as I’m not fluent in any other language. I can get by, barely, in a couple, and by barely I mean be polite, get myself some food, and find a bathroom, but I couldn’t even begin to discuss anything even remotely intelligently in another language.

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    110. SlayerNina,

      Oh, I hope so. On the other hand, after seeing what became of the Dornish characters (with the exception of Doran, who simply needed a lot more screentime), maybe that would be too much. Then we would expect a lot from that storyline and be disappointed if it was too little and not well executed.

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    111. TormundsWoman,
      Awww thanks TW, my very own protector 😀 To be honest, I don’t really mind what people think of me, as long as it’s not she’s nasty, racist/sexist/other-ists, mean spirited, the sort of things I hope I’m not and try very hard not to be. If it’s just stuff like a bit silly and talkative, I can live with that quite happily. Not sure I can remember how to spell that word again tho’, so I might just have to stick with blowing raspberries instead.

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,
      I’ve always been more humanities than science so not sure, but I LOVE glitter so a lot of my accessories are from kid’s shops ‘cos the adult ones don’t do them. Not a brilliant picture, but this is Ernie modelling my very grown up (although sadly not glittery) hat.

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    112. Lulus Mum,

      Awwww! 🙂

      Pigeon,

      There are a few pictures of him which make me think he’ll pull off menacing/intimidating/someone you would not want to mess with quite successfully.

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    113. Wylie,

      I understood perfectly. Your English is wonderful.

      And like Nymeria Warrior Queen said, there are some things Martin isn’t going to or shouldn’t change. But those words are very different from “can’t.” I mean, it’s not as if a giant school teacher nun with a ruler will come down from the sky and slap Martin’s knuckles with a ruler if he makes such a change. He will not disintegrate into dust if he makes a change. He very well can make changes from his original plot.

      And, if we take the letter as his original plot, he already has. Which is a good thing because parts of that sounded terrible.

      I am not one to think GRRM is particularly brilliant or that his writing is the best. I struggle with much of his prose, but I think he writes compelling characters. He’s also not the first writer to break tropes or subvert expectations. But he has made doing that sort of his pattern.

      I’m just not one to respond well to definite pronouncements of what will and will not happen based on, as kit_hepburn said, Literature 101, with no consideration of Literature 102. When, in fact, most books and series need analyzed at least at a Literature 301 level.

      TormundsWoman,

      I wish there were a Watcher’s Savior which I could utilize. But really, if I say I’m done, I’m done. I entered the fray here because of posts I do read, posts made by people whose thoughts and analysis I find interesting and thought provoking, were discussing things, so I went back and read.

      If there were a trailer or a teaser, I’d have spent my time on that, but things are so damn slow right now.

      My kingdom for a teaser. Just a teaser.

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    114. HotPinkLipstick:

      I wish there were a Watcher’s Savior which I could utilize.

      Hah! Good one. I would offer but I’m totally booked. Lulus Mum, is my only one. Ok, maybe I got one or two more posters I have a soft spot for, but I confessed enough for one day 😛

      As for the trailer, I think one would probably be released around the end of the month. Till then… suffer the little children.

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    115. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I have full confidence that he will be fantastic (and I hope I’m not proved wrong!) When they first released casting news and I posted the photo of him being all screamy and crazy-eyed, I figured the still waters run deep with this one. 😉

      Also, anyone with teeth that nice and eyes that light is almost certain to be a good bad guy. 😛

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    116. TormundsWoman,
      Awww thanks honey, love you too! 😀 While we’re having a confessional love-in, it’s partly your fault I post a lot on here. When I was still tentatively joining in and not sure how well received new posters would be, you replied to something I said along the lines of love your post and that was it, off I went…blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Noooooo not Shireeeeeeeeeeen! Please feel free to defend others as well, I don’t want to monopolise you and as it’s 11.25pm here, I’m off to bed, so you can look after Pinky if she needs it. Night all *waves bye bye* 😀

      Oh yeah P.S. I know we all want a trailer, but the longer it takes to get one, the closer we are to S6 starting, try to think of it like that.

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    117. TormundsWoman,

      Because I tend to be a sporadic reader/poster, I’m terrible at distinguishing betwen posters I really enjoy. I’m much better at going “Oh, post by X, engage scrolling mechanism!”

      Lulus Mum,

      Now I feel all warm and fuzzy. Wait, that could be the liquor… 🙂

      Sweet dreams.

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    118. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      First of all, thank you very much for your nice words. I have to admit that my native language is also a germanic language, so it was much easier for me to learn English than let’s say a slavic language like Polish, which was a total desaster for me. Just couldn’t handle all those additional grammatical cases that came out of nowhere. Also, where I come from, TV is mostly rubbish (it really is), so I stick to international productions (English and American TV shows mostly), that helps as well 🙂

      Anyway, back on topic: I’m totally riding the Pilou train. I loved him very much in Borgen and I am also optimistic that he can pull off a personality like Euron’s. Hope we get to see the audition reel one day!

      HotPinkLipstick,

      Thanks for the detailed answer. The positive thing about being a part of this fandom is that I really got an interest in literature studies now, so I find it always very intriguing when people discuss their understanding of ASoIaF.

      Still a bit sad though, that we didn’t get TWoW. It could have been like opening a window and letting some fresh air into a house that had been shut for a decade. First thing to do, probably get the dust of some old theories and then hopefully get rid of them or paint them over 🙂

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    119. Lulus Mum,

      I heard a rumor that if you are do not grow up by the time you are 50, you don’t have to. Just say’n And since Im long passed 50, lets just say that my profession as a teacher of young children did not happen accidentally (and back on topic, I was not a big fan of the Iron storyline, but reading these posts and seeing possibilities, well, Im very curious now what they do with it. Hopefully better than the did with dorne!

        Quote  Reply

    120. Lulus Mum,

      Wasn’t it during the season 5 speculation thread in an article about what we know now as Hardhome? And I am glad you have decided to post and I am sure many here think the same. We need more fresh eyes, unspoiled opinions, unsullied emotions, upbeat funny posts around here. I know I do!

        Quote  Reply

    121. TormundsWoman,
      Mmmm not sure? That’s where the idea of giant killer penguins first appeared, although it might have been when I called Loras Mr T and went off on an A Team tangent? Nymeria Warrior Queen and Hodor’s Bastard were really nice and encouraging too – there were couple of you in fairly quick succession who made me decide to take the plunge and join in fully. Well I took it as encouragement anyway, if people were trying to say bloody hell woman will you act more sensibly and reverently towards GoT I’m afraid they failed miserably! Always happy if I can make someone smile, especially with such grimness in the show, a bit of light relief can go a long way 😀

      EDIT: So anyone feeling shy and wondering whether or not to start posting, give it a go! There are plenty of nice friendly people on here as well as the odd argumentative ones, you’re bound to find someone with similar views.

        Quote  Reply

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