Pilou Asbæk, Isaac Hempstead Wright, and Kristian Nairn share their thoughts on “The Door”

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After a huge Game of Thrones episode like “The Door,” there is loads to discuss and thankfully, the stars of the show are providing us with more fuel in a flood of new interviews.

Pilou Asbæk speaks to Vulture about making the role of Euron Greyjoy his own, leaving behind some of the book details and making a splash in last week’s kingsmoot.

The Danish actor acknowledges that his Euron isn’t exactly like the character from the novels, saying it would be “too cliché” to have an eyepatch. Asbæk says he needed to look like a Greyjoy as well. “If he were a fish out of water, no one would have elected him. But now they see he’s just like them. And hopefully I’m going to be in many episodes, many seasons, and I’ll have time to show that Euron Greyjoy’s a fucking bastard! [He laughs.] But a cool bastard. Wait and see.”

After Euron’s vulgar and effective appearance at the kingsmoot, many people have made comparisons to another man- Donald Trump. The actor addressed those comments with a tweet reading, “Dear ladies & gentlemen, please remember…Euron Greyjoy is a fictional character… Donald Trump isn’t!!! Have a great day

says to Vulture, “The reason why I did it, Game of Thrones is so alive on social media. It’s a big part of this show’s popularity. And it’s a good way to communicate with people, to know what’s going on. A couple of my friends were like, ‘They’re equating you with Donald Trump,’ and I wanted to write some funny reference, just to put it out there to say, ‘Guys! First of all, this is a fictional character. I am here as an actor to interpret. Yeah, he doesn’t have an eye patch. Yeah, he doesn’t have the Dragonbinder… or does he?'”

There’s more to Euron Greyjoy than crudeness and ambition though. The actor says, “Everything’s a chess game to him, and he thinks, ‘I’m going to win, because I’m the smartest one.’ And if someone disagrees, they’re going to die. He’s a loose cannon, but he’s pointing somewhere.”

There’s much more in the Vulture interview, so check out the complete interview at the source!


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Isaac Hempstead Wright talks to the Hollywood Reporter , sharing his reaction to the news of Hodor’s death when he received the script. Turns out, he reacted in a manner similar to the fans.

I read it, and I was with my mom, and I said, “Oh my god. Hodor dies.” She said, “No he doesn’t.” And I said, “Yes. He just died. And so did Summer.” It was pure disbelief. I think the most traumatizing thing about it is that it’s not just that Hodor dies, and it’s the death of this gentle giant who we didn’t know much about. It’s like, we just have finally seen what exactly happened to his character to make him that way, and it’s totally traumatic and awful and sad that this once perfectly happy and fun little kid was basically screwed over by Bran. That giant bomb drops, and then he’s taken from us.

For some viewers, it was quite confusing, trying to work out what exactly happened to young Hodor, who was able to hear Meera before going into a seizure. The actor does his best to explain his take on what is happening in that crucial moment between Bran and Hodor:

I know very little about what exactly happened there. I know about as much as we’ve seen on screen. I don’t know the exact intricacies of how it worked. But my take on it is that Bran is in this vision. He hears Meera. He gets that he has to warg, but subconsciously, the only way he can do that is through a time-bending thing, which is by going into the Hodor he’s presently with in this vision. It’s not like they’re dreams, either, as far as I know. It’s not like Bran’s just having a dream…[…] The only way Bran can get into Hodor in the current day is to go into the vehicle of the young Hodor and go through his mind. It’s like Bran is kind of racing through millions of different time frames and neural pathways in the brain of the young Hodor, going all the way into the current day. I think it’s almost like an overload for the young Hodor’s brain, and the adult Hodor’s brain, and suddenly everything’s kicking off. I don’t know if it’s a conscious decision Bran makes to take Hodor over. I think it’s more subconsciously, he knows that he has to somehow get inside Hodor.

Isaac addresses much more in the full interview so pop on over to THR to check it out!

The man of the week, Hodor himself Kristian Nairn gives a great interview to the New York Times about his work on the show, and answers a good and pressing question: does Bran being responsible for Hodor’s death and his “Hodor”-ness change Nairn’s feelings about Bran and Hodor’s relationship?

The actor says, “No it doesn’t. Although Bran was responsible for the whole chain of events that killed Hodor, Hodor didn’t have to hold that door. He wasn’t being warged into at that stage. It was Meera who asked him to hold the door, it wasn’t Bran. He wants to protect the little guy. That’s all he’s ever done. He wants to help — this is the ultimate helping hand here. I just think he would be happy they could continue without him.”

156 responses

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    1. While the King’s Moot was a let down, I feel like Euron still has a chance to be awesome. I loved the bridge scene beforehand. Hopefully we see him a bit more this season.

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    2. Yeah, he doesn’t have the Dragonbinder… or does he?’”

      I heard that the Dragonbinder will be introduced later in this season. I didn’t believe them, but maybe those rumors were right?

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    3. Elizabeth,

      Actually a character that treats the books with respect. Understood his characters motivation, and potential deviations.

      Definitely a people pleaser, and therefore in my opinion, a terrific actor.

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    4. It’s like Bran is kind of racing through millions of different time frames and neural pathways in the brain of the young Hodor,

      Bran was in young Hodor’s brain … which is contrary to some of the hypotheses I’ve seen … of course this is only IHW’s POV

      I know warging demands a visual representation, which is the eyes. But maybe this was different.

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    5. mau,

      I’ve debated whether they’re going to have Euron and co. retrieve the dragonbinder from the Citadel, which would combine his speculated assault on Oldtown with Sam’s storyline and whatever’s up with the maesters.

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    6. Pilou’s comments here lend to weight to something I’ve suspected about his character. I honestly think Euron was just playing an act at the Kingsmoot, acting all high and mighty to make himself appear more relatable to the barbarians he was trying to win over. And it worked. I mean, just compare his appearance at the Kingsmoot to when he confronted Balon back in 6×02. It’s like watching two completely different characters. And that difference seems too palpable to be an oversight in the writing… or at least, I hope.

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    7. GameofHype,

      I thought Pilou did a very good job.
      Euron’s eye-patch is a literally trick. It’s meant to show his dual nature.

      The Euron who drinks and jokes with his people.
      And batshit crazy Euron who would cut you piece by piece.

      I saw that clearly in Pilou’s acting. So for me he was great in that scene.

      And props to the actor who played Aeron, his monologue was amazing.

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    8. Yeah, he doesn’t have an eye patch. Yeah, he doesn’t have the Dragonbinder… or does he?

      This is the kinda shit my body can’t take!! Why do they tease us so???

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    9. Bran’s interpretation of the greenseeing-warging-warging was much the way I see the scene, and truly insightful. I think that Bran linked their three minds together so that Young Hodor sees, hears, and experiences the trauma at the end of Old Hodor’s life. Young Hodor, though he loses his ability to speak, does retain at least some memory of this horrific trauma. He fears warging so much because of that warging trauma he experienced as a child.

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    10. Sean C.:
      mau,

      I’ve debated whether they’re going to have Euron and co. retrieve the dragonbinder from the Citadel, which would combine his speculated assault on Oldtown with Sam’s storyline and whatever’s up with the maesters.

      That’s actually a great idea, because honestly I fail to see what role Euron could possibly play otherwise for the rest of the season.

      He’s appeared in two episodes… Will he appear in one more? Two? I just can’t exactly see what he’ll be doing. Yara and Theon are presumably taking Victarion’s role (stealing Euron’s plan of allying with Dany), so what will Euron himself be doing? In the books, after the kingsmoot, he does… nothing at all, except taking the Shield Islands. Which is why I have thought for about a year now that we’ll see Euron sacking Oldtown, but there’s literally no evidence of that happening, not even a whiff of it. Granted, it probably won’t be an elaborate setpiece; more like Stannis’ charges at beginning of “The Children” and “Mother’s Mercy”, rellying mostly on CGI troops, or ships in this case. But still, one would think there would be at least something pointing to such a scene. Also, even if they do show Euron sacking Oldtown, what would be the point? I mean, it affects one of the main(ish) characters, Sam, in that it will probably force him to leave the Citadel, but otherwise it isn’t any more relevant than showing the taking of the Shield Islands.

      However, if Euron were to sack Oldtown because he’s looking for something… That’s different! Whether it is dragonbinder or some other magical object or knowledge, it would give a point and a satisfying conclusion to Euron’s appearance this season.

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    11. Okay personal spitball but I wanted to share it :

      Sam, Jorah and Euron will all be in Oldtown by the end of the season.

      You first heard it here ! (well at least for Jorah, I havent seen anyone spitballing about him getting to the Citadel so far, and it would be the most logical move for him, so who knows, maybe a combo Sam – Jorah is in the cards this season !)

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    12. I find time traveling to be so confusing, so I’m not even going to attempt to understand what what going on in that Hodor scene right now lol.

      The Kingsmoot scene was kind of dumb at the end, but Yara and Theon sold it with their amazing acting. So I’m willing to overlook a couple of things.

      Euron, on the other hand, was basically the equivalent of Thanos at the end of every Marvel mid-credit scene. I hope he does something scary and interesting at some point. I want a menacing villain.

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    13. Kongaholic:
      http://static.goldderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/hbo-08-emmy-awards-fyc-mailer-game-of-thrones-veep-620×360.jpg

      Can someone please zoom in on this image. It’s the emmy mailer from HBO. It says what character Ian McShane is playing this season but it is hard to make out.

      Whatever it is, it’s a incredibly short name. Shorter than Meribald or Elder Brother. It may not even say who he plays. It’s like three or four letters at most.

      Arkash: Sam, Jorah and Euron will all be in Oldtown by the end of the season.

      That’s a theory I like. I had the same idea, and many other people did too, apparently. Where would Jorah go to seek knowledge of a cure, but to the Citadel, the center of all knowledge in Westeros? Unless he goes back to Valyria or something.

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    14. I hope we get to see some mind games from Euron. Maybe against Sam when he inevitably takes Old Town.

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    15. “No it doesn’t. Although Bran was responsible for the whole chain of events that killed Hodor, Hodor didn’t have to hold that door. He wasn’t being warged into at that stage. It was Meera who asked him to hold the door, it wasn’t Bran. He wants to protect the little guy. That’s all he’s ever done. He wants to help — this is the ultimate helping hand here. I just think he would be happy they could continue without him.”

      No offense to Kristian Nairn, but I think he’s really, really WRONG about this interpretation. The fact that Isaac basically said that he wasn’t sure of the mechanics of it either tells me that it wasn’t discussed with the actors very much so it makes sense that Nairn could be seeing it incorrectly, but I think Isaac’s interpretation is more correct for sure. It was Bran warging into Hodor, holding the door. If it wasn’t Bran, then it really doesn’t make sense.

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    16. Luka Nieto,

      It also looks like there’s a “y” “g” “j” or “p” too. Does this mean he was nominated for an emmy in the role? That’s impressive, right? For a small role?

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    17. GameofHype,

      Agree. I don’t think he has read the books, but his twitter feed suggests he is a reading-type person (which is not the case for most actors – to each their own, but I have more respect to those who read). Pilou looks like he will fill the hole left by Michael McElhatton, who also understood the book-readers well and gave terrific interviews.

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    18. Luka Nieto,

      That’s a theory I like. I had the same idea, and many other people did too, apparently. Where would Jorah go to seek knowledge of a cure, but to the Citadel, the center of all knowledge in Westeros? Unless he goes back to Valyria or something.

      My guess is that he returns to Qarth and seeks out the mysterious masked woman from Season 2. Quaithe.

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    19. JazzyJ,

      Why not. She did warn that all those who pass through Valyria must have protection, so Jorah could make the connection. Who knows.

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    20. JazzyJ,

      It makes sense when you think inside the story, but when you think about constructing the last 13 episodes only Oldtown makes sense.

      We need a characters we care about there, not only Sam.

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    21. Tycho Nestoris,

      That is a promotional piece from HBO to the nominating body of the Emmy’s. No one is nominated as yet.

      They list all of the actors & their rols, all the directors & the writers etc.

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    22. mau,

      It is a very long journey from the Dothraki Sea to Oldtown. I think he’ll stay in Essos, but that’s just my prediction and I may, of course, be wrong. I think it would be great to see Quaithe again.

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    23. Kongaholic,

      If I had to hazard an educated guess, I’d say it says “Hero”. That goes with my theory that “Jaime meets a hero” from the synopsis actually refers to Ian McShane (isn’t he supposed to a veteran?).

        Quote  Reply

    24. Sorry but Asbæk really didnt do it for me as Euron at all. I found his portrayal really weak if I’m honest. Not sure if its because I’m biased against the character (I mean come on, he’s a psychopathic paedophile who molested his own brothers FFS), but I think it’s more a case of the woefully bad script he had to work with. “Where are my niece and nephew.. Let’s go kill them”. Seriously? They even had text from the books they could’ve used so theres no excuse for that kinda bad quality writing.

      Soooo glad he doesn’t have the eyepatch and all that crap though, and he does look very like Alfie, and IMO a lot is overlooked because of these factors. But his performance for me was awful-Dorne class awful in fact. Compare him with Alfie’s acting skills- there’s no comparison for me.

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    25. Apollo,

      I loved his scene with Balon on the bridge, but I agree his presence at the kingsmoot was a disappointment. It was nowhere near Dornish level bad, though, imo.

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    26. Young Dragon:
      Apollo,

      I loved his scene with Balon on the bridge, but I agree his presence at the kingsmoot was a disappointment. It was nowhere near Dornish level bad, though, imo.

      Oh I know I’ll be in the total minority on this. And that’s ok by me, each to their own. But I can’t even watch that scene now it’s just so teeth-numbingly bad 🙁

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    27. Season 2 episode 8,while digging a latrine at the fist of the first men Grenn finds that marked stone, and underneath it wrapped in a nights watch cloak is that dragonglass and a beautiful horn.
      Whatever happened to that horn?Have I missed something?
      Sam was there and opened the wrap with Grenn.
      I wonder if he kept it as a souvenir and is taking it to oldtown.
      What will happen when someone finally blows that horn?
      That is,if it ever even shows up somewhere.

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    28. It seems Bran won’t have time to cry about Hodor and Summer … he is focus in his mission. I can totally see him taking a risk with Benjen to save Meera and himself.
      I didn’t want to believe Bran was in Hodor while holding the door. I suppose it has more sense … but it’s so awful. No, I choose to believe Hodor somehow free himself from Bran and sacrifice himself. It’s more heroic and less murder.

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    29. hodor:
      mau,

      Adding a new big location at all doesn’t make sense with all the big plots unresolved and only 13 episodes to go.

      But it will be added. We know that. Sam will be there.

      After this season we will loose Meereen, Braavos, Essos.

      The North will be just one storyline, with Bran there as well. And characters from the Vale will be there. Dorne will probably merge with Dany.

      So there is a room for a new location.

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    30. Bearded Onion:
      While the King’s Moot was a let down, I feel like Euron still has a chance to be awesome. I loved the bridge scene beforehand. Hopefully we see him a bit more this season.

      While the Kingsmoot was a letdown? Seriously, I thought it was awesome. Loved the delivery of every line. So far, the Ironborn-plot is leaps better then Dorne last year, and that’s all one could ask for. My girlfriend even said: “this makes sense”.

      Ginevra:
      Bran’s interpretation of the greenseeing-warging-warging was much the way I see the scene, and truly insightful.I think that Bran linked their three minds together so that Young Hodor sees, hears, and experiences the trauma at the end of Old Hodor’s life.Young Hodor, though he loses his ability to speak, does retain at least some memory of this horrific trauma.He fears warging so much because of that warging trauma he experienced as a child.

      That’s a lot of assumptions, lets break down what happens:
      – 1. Bran is in the past.
      – 2. Meera (in the present) says: “Warg into Hodor, now!”, this reaches Bran in the past.
      – 3. Bloodraven says: “Listen to your friend”
      – 4. We hear present Hodor’s voice reach Bran in the past.
      – 5. Bran in the past looks at young-Hodor, while hearing present-Hodor and manages to temporarily Warg into present-Hodor, calming him.

      My interpretation is that Hodor’s voice guided him to warg him in the present.

      Lets continue.
      – 6. The Bloodraven gets shanked by the Night’s King, he vanishes in the past.
      – 7. The group manages to get out of the cave, Bran is still in the past.
      – 8. Meera shouts: “Hold the door!”, which reaches Bran in the past.
      – 9. Still in the mindset that he needs to warg into Hodor (from Bran’s perspective, why else would Meera be screaming?), Bran does so into young-Hodor. There’s no audio of present-Hodor during this warging, which may be why Bran isn’t able to warg present-Hodor this time, but instead -accidentally- wargs into young-Hodor.
      – 10. Meera’s shouts go through Bran’s subconsciousnous, into the subconsciousnous of warged young-Hodor, (we even hear Meera and young-Hodor sync the words).
      – 11. The warging and inception of those words into young-Hodor’s subconsciousnous is such a traumatizing event that leads to Hodor becoming Hodor.
      – 12. Hodor holds the door, unwarged.

      This makes perfect sense, as opposed to “he warged into past-hodor in order to reach present-Hodor. The fact that he heard present-Hodor just before he warged into present-Hodor is a clue that I really think shouldn’t be glanced over.

      Kongaholic:
      http://static.goldderby.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/hbo-08-emmy-awards-fyc-mailer-game-of-thrones-veep-620×360.jpg

      Can someone please zoom in on this image. It’s the emmy mailer from HBO. It says what character Ian McShane is playing this season but it is hard to make out.

      Ian McShane as Hans?

      aabe:
      GameofHype,
      Agree. I don’t think he has read the books, but his twitter feed suggests he is a reading-type person (which is not the case for most actors – to each their own, but I have more respect to those who read). Pilou looks like he will fill the hole left by Michael McElhatton, who also understood the book-readers well and gave terrific interviews.

      Pilou is awesome, I saw a lowkey Danish interview of him in which he was answering tweeted questions about Game of Thrones. He was more than enthusiastic about the Ironborn: “Euron Greyjoy, Ironborn, fuck yeah“.

      mau:
      Arkash,
      Yes. This season will be just a set-up, but Oldtown will be a big location next year.

      I’ll be honest, if all Sam is going to do is having a family dinner and then sit and read books at the Citadel, then that would be a boring season for him with hardly no pay-off.

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    31. Austen Landaas,

      Interesting, that was kinda my theory as well. The Ironborn are “reavers” – much like the stereotypical image of the Vikings of yore, they liked to pillage, plunder and rape, and no doubt put whatever was left behind to the torch. This was exactly the kind of mindset that Euron was trying to appeal to, and he knocked it out of the park. A promise of adventure, riches and booty, and maybe a beautiful dragon queen at the end? How could they say no?!
      Can’t wait to see more of Euron. Really loving his drunken portrayal.

        Quote  Reply

    32. JazzyJ:
      mau,

      It is a very long journey from the Dothraki Sea to Oldtown.

      It is a very long journey from the Vale to the North, and from the Irons Islands to Meereen. So what?

        Quote  Reply

    33. Apollo:

      But his performance for me was awful-Dorne class awful in fact. Compare him with Alfie’s acting skills- there’s no comparison for me.

      He is not like Euron from the books, but this statement is just ridiculous. And when you compare him with Alfie he is really good.

      Pilou Asbæk is a great actor.

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    34. I love isaacs reaction reading the script, with his mom. The character of bran feels guilt as you see by his face; heck een the young actor eels it! Love that Kristian doesn’t blame the d lad he just wants to protect him and do anything it tkes.

      ETA I alo think Pilou is a fine actor; he doesn’t have to play the character in the books, he can have his own interpretation. No question tho about Alfie – an emmy to him is long over due.

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    35. Ser Oromis Locke:
      I’ll be honest, if all Sam is going to do is having a family dinner and then sit and read books at the Citadel, then that would be a boring season for him with hardly no pay-off.

      And I expect just that. There is no indication that we will get anything more from him this year. There are many things they have to resolve this season.

      Sam can wait.

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    36. Apollo,

      I must admit I was underwhelmed by Euron as well. The actor seems a really cool guy and I have seen him in other things where he has been excellent, so I have no doubt about his credentials but … somehow his scenes didn’t ring true for me. With his thick scandi accent he just didn’t sound very menacing (I think most scandinavian people just seem inherently lovely so the accent doesn’t help)…. and I’m not convinced he looks the part of an inspirational / awe-inspiring leader either…. it felt stilted somehow. Anyway, obviously I’ll see how he goes for the rest of the season and hope for the best. I really WANT to like him.

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    37. Let’s go kill them sound like a line form superhero movie, but whatever.

      This speech is so powerful.

      Let Euron, your servant, be born again from the sea as you were. Bless him with salt, bless him with stone, bless him with steel. Listen to the waves, listen to the God. He’s speaking to us and he says: “we shall have no king but Euron Greyjoy”. Let the sea wash your follies and your vanities away. Let the old Euron drown. Let his lungs fill with sea water. Let the fish eat the scales of his eyes. What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger!”

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    38. mau,

      Aguero,

      Just my opinion, that’s all- no need to start name calling or cyber bullying just because my opinion differs from yours. You’re entitled to your opinions, as am I. There’s wayyy too much disrespect going on here lately and it needs to stop. Namaste ??

        Quote  Reply

    39. mau:
      Let’s go kill them sound like a line form superhero movie, but whatever.

      This speech is so powerful.

      Let Euron, your servant, be born again from the sea as you were. Bless him with salt, bless him with stone, bless him with steel. Listen to the waves, listen to the God. He’s speaking to us and he says: “we shall have no king but Euron Greyjoy”. Let the sea wash your follies and your vanities away. Let the old Euron drown. Let his lungs fill with sea water. Let the fish eat the scales of his eyes. What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger!”

      Indeed. It is. You’re quoting Aerons speech though, not Eurons. I’ve no issue with the Aeron actors portrayals or his lines.

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    40. Ross,

      Agreed totally- he wasn’t menacing at all to me, but laughable in fact. But as I said, I have zero affinity for the book character either (although I prefer him on the page to the screen).

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    41. Apollo,

      I didn’t want to disrespect you, I was just shocked by your opinion. That was my initial reaction. But you have every right to think what you think.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Apollo,

      Yes, but it was part of that scene, and it was about Euron.

      And I wasn’t responding to you only, but to everyone who claimed that that scene was bad

        Quote  Reply

    43. Apollo,

      Yeah, many people on this site are very intolerant of differing opinions. It’s really sad honestly, that we can’t just discuss a show we all love without constantly attacking each other. Unfortunately it seems some people can’t stand it if others don’t find the show to be flawless, or if they don’t have the same take on something (to be clear, I am mainly referring to our friend Aguero in this case, who called you crazy).

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    44. Luka Nieto,

      Luka

      Do you think we might see a second Dance (battle) of Dragons, perhaps next year,. I’ve read that Martin has allegedly stated that there will be one in the books but that does not mean that there would be one on the show

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    45. That’s a lot of assumptions, lets break down what happens:
      – 1. Bran is in the past.
      – 2. Meera (in the present) says: “Warg into Hodor, now!”, this reaches Bran in the past.
      – 3. Bloodraven says: “Listen to your friend”
      – 4. We hear present Hodor’s voice reach Bran in the past.
      – 5. Bran in the past looks at young-Hodor, while hearing present-Hodor and manages to temporarily Warg into present-Hodor, calming him.

      My interpretation is that Hodor’s voice guided him to warg him in the present.

      Lets continue.
      – 6. The Bloodraven gets shanked by the Night’s King, he vanishes in the past.
      – 7. The group manages to get out of the cave, Bran is still in the past.
      – 8. Meera shouts: “Hold the door!”, which reaches Bran in the past.
      – 9. Still in the mindset that he needs to warg into Hodor (from Bran’s perspective, why else would Meera be screaming?), Bran does so into young-Hodor. There’s no audio of present-Hodor during this warging, which may be why Bran isn’t able to warg present-Hodor this time, but instead -accidentally- wargs into young-Hodor.
      – 10. Meera’s shouts go through Bran’s subconsciousnous, into the subconsciousnous of warged young-Hodor, (we even hear Meera and young-Hodor sync the words).
      – 11. The warging and inception of those words into young-Hodor’s subconsciousnous is such a traumatizing event that leads to Hodor becoming Hodor.
      – 12. Hodor holds the door, unwarged.

      This makes perfect sense, as opposed to “he warged into past-hodor in order to reach present-Hodor. The fact that he heard present-Hodor just before he warged into present-Hodor is a clue that I really think shouldn’t be glanced over.

      Honestly this is the first explanation that makes the most sense and it fits so well.I don’t think Bran made Hodor hold the door that would make him a murderer and I don’t think they were going for that.

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    46. Anyway I don’t wanna get into some big argument here and digress from the thread (as many threads this week have gone that way) – some of us liked the Euron stuff, some didn’t. It happens ??

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    47. Am I missing why Euron’s been associated with Trump? To me it just seems that the interviewer is desperate to bring Trump/politics into this for some reason…

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    48. Chimeny:
      Am I missing why Euron’s been associated with Trump? To me it just seems that the interviewer is desperate to bring Trump/politics into this for some reason…

      You could be right… But in all honesty, Trump has exactly the same effect on me as TV Euron…cringeworthy ?

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    49. Apollo,

      Some of its my ignorance of the wotw.I’m a noob!Never been in on debate or any other sites. 16,yrs I’ve been a fan and after Sundays #1 show yet I figured I’d give a try.it would be great if everyone respected each other.do onto others. Right?

        Quote  Reply

    50. I’m shocked none of these bloggers are asking any of the actors what it was like to work with Jack Bender, and I never even watched Lost. Instead they ask how would Euron react to that dude in the play.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Apollo,

      Dorne level? Way harsh, friend. I agree with the criticism of “where is Theon/Asha?” I like the way it’s edited between the baptism and ship stealing. What I didn’t like was how many people and ships they made off with. If Euron won the kingsmoot how’d he lose all his men? I think Asha and Theon taking 2 ships/crews would have registered better. Now we are supposed to wait while he builds more ships?

      Kongaholic,

      I got the “y”! What do I win? And who’s Ray? That’s a codename?

        Quote  Reply

    52. Tycho Nestoris:
      Apollo,

      Dorne level? Way harsh, friend. I agree with the criticism of “where is Theon/Asha?” I like the way it’s edited between the baptism and ship stealing. What I didn’t like was how many people and ships they made off with. If Euron won the kingsmoot how’d he lose all his men? I think Asha and Theon taking 2 ships/crews would have registered better. Now we are supposed to wait while he builds more ships?

      Exactly.. we’re to believe that he’s some kinda badass ruler who’s seen the world, and who grabs the salt throne by paying the Iron price and YET, he lets the Iron Fleet slip right through his fingers as soon as he’s crowned? Hardly a great start IMO. I’m kinda surprised nobody else seems to find this odd. Maybe he was too busy playing with his “big cock” 😉

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    53. I heard a rumour that Euron thinks

      he has the Dragonbinder, but it is actually the Joramun horn, and when he blows it the Wall will fall

        Quote  Reply

    54. Ser Oromis Locke,

      I loved our time breakdown, makes sense. I love time slip or time travel and its always fun to try to unravel things. I obviously didn’t get it all, so that helpes

      Apollo,

      Completely agree.

      Apollo,

      Yeah he is cringeworthy, but he’s supposed to be (and to be honest, I hated the Ironborn section of the books so to me, I like the way this is going. Tho I couldve done without ‘lets go kill them’…that was just silly

        Quote  Reply

    55. Chimeny: Am I missing why Euron’s been associated with Trump? To me it just seems that the interviewer is desperate to bring Trump/politics into this for some reason…

      During one of the Republican debates, Trump boasted about the size of his member, and how it was bigger than that of other Republican candidates. It was worthy of Book!Tormund. A lot of viewers probably think that they were riffing on Trump: but this stuff was filmed before those debates!

      Luka Nieto: He’s appeared in two episodes… Will he appear in one more? Two?

      I doubt that it will be too much more screen time. Euron’s primary purpose might well be just to drive Theon (and Yara) to wherever they are going now. I really hope that they do not bother with some magical dragon taming sword: at best, it would seem very arbitrary, and at worse it will be Deus ex Machina. The show (and, quite frankly, book) would do much better to have the next two riders actually bond with the dragons in some way. Given that we are halfway through the season and he has had all of two scenes, he clearly is not going to be the major antagonist that many people predicted: and given that we probably have only another 18-20 episodes, that is just as well, because the show just opened up a ton of stuff last week!

        Quote  Reply

    56. Apollo: YET, he lets the Iron Fleet slip right through his fingers as soon as he’s crowned?

      Actually, it slipped away while he was being drowned, not crowned. And it seems that the fanatics were too busy listening to the Mollusk Mullah invoke Underwater Jesus to pay attention. Religion making people act stupid? I thought that this was supposed to be a fantasy! 😀

      ash: Tho I couldve done without ‘lets go kill them’…that was just silly

      Why? It made Euron sound like a bit of a psychopath: and isn’t that consistent with his character?

        Quote  Reply

    57. It didn’t fit with the rest of his speaking style. If he said something like ‘Now Yara dies’ it would have been better. But thats a minor thing, I still liked the scene

        Quote  Reply

    58. Wimsey,

      LOL well I guess drowning is a distraction. 😉

      I do think it’s comical how much he bigs himself up and then boom… He’s been outsmarted by the same woman and cockless boy that he’s just mocked. I’m just not so sure how the Iron Born would ever see TV Euron as a worthy ruler. But as you said, perhaps he’s not going to be the main antagonist that was expected (fingers crossed).

        Quote  Reply

    59. I think Euron is a very fragmented character, I think that’s his main character trait. Joffrey and Ramsay are more psycotic-like (with serial killer tendencies, hurting animals and so on). Euron is outright mad, with moodswings and all. I think he was playing a role during the kingsmoot.
      He does that a little bit in the books as well. Whenever he’s in public he is exactly that guy. He humiliates people through cruel jokes and veiled threats, but in that one scene in private with Victarion, he is very different, more thoughtfull as to almost seem haunted by something. It’s as if he doesn’t even remember all the trouble he caused Victarion at that moment, he’s in his own world.
      From reading the whole of Pilous interview, it seems very like this is what he’s hinting at, that there’s another side to him. He left the iron islands after all, so when he came back he had to be Iron Born in order to win, and he was very much iron born at the moot.
      Another interesting thing, is Aerons character. As some of you have mentioned, unlike Euron, Aerons appearance and personality and the way Michael Feast plays him is very close to book-aeron. I’m courious if the Dragonbinder rumours are true, will Aeron abandon Euron for being ungodly. He did have a certain reaction when Euron wanted to kill his niece and niveu. Could just be surprise, but remember this: ‘No man is as accursed as the kinslayer.’ Also, in his speach he specifically asked the god to drown the old Euron, to wash away his follies.

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    60. Apollo: I’m just not so sure how the Iron Born would ever see TV Euron as a worthy ruler. But as you said, perhaps he’s not going to be the main antagonist that was expected (fingers crossed).

      He is promising to let them kill people. That’s like promising tax breaks for this crowd.

      But, all of that written, it probably was not on Euron to keep Yara & Theon around while he was being drowned. He was, as you note, a little preoccupied. (And, might I add: what an absolutely stupid ceremony!) Perhaps it is just verboten for people to slip out during the ceremony. Of course, it would have been centuries since that had had a Kingsmoot, so maybe Theon & Yara told people that they were going off for the ritual losers purification, and nobody wanted to admit that they’d never heard of that.

      Damphairintheshowplease!: He did have a certain reaction when Euron wanted to kill his niece and niveu. Could just be surprise, but remember this: ‘No man is as accursed as the kinslayer.’ A

      The Kinslaying Creed is a Westerosi one, and the Iron Born really are not Westerosi. Their customs and culture are very different. This is not to say that they are big on kinslaying: but it is to say that we should not assume that it is as big of a deal there. After all, we also have seen that the Iron Born hold the Iron Price dear: if you want something, kill the person who has it and take it for your own.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Apollo: and who grabs the salt throne by paying the Iron price and YET, he lets the Iron Fleet slip right through his fingers as soon as he’s crowned? Hardly a great start IMO. I’m kinda surprised nobody else seems to find this odd.

      Hmmm…… all those men who sailed away under the leadership of a woman, Yara, certainly found him odd. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    62. Wimsey:
      I doubt that it will be too much more screen time.Euron’s primary purpose might well be just to drive Theon (and Yara) to wherever they are going now.I really hope that they do not bother with some magical dragon taming sword: at best, it would seem very arbitrary, and at worse it will be Deus ex Machina.The show (and, quite frankly, book) would do much better to have the next two riders actually bond with the dragons in some way.Given that we are halfway through the season and he has had all of two scenes, he clearly is not going to be the major antagonist that many people predicted: and given that we probably have only another 18-20 episodes, that is just as well, because the show just opened up a ton of stuff last week!

      The actor has repeatedly suggested Euron has larger designs. While the plot has started slow, the pieces all seem to be there, or can be guessed to be based on other things.

      There’s a simple fact: with three large dragons, a Dothraki horde, and the Unsullied (throw in the Second Sons, but they’re small potatoes compared to the rest), Dany is effectively unstoppable. She’s far more powerful than Aegon the Conqueror was when he conquered six of the seven kingdoms, and Aegon faced all the realms at full strength, whereas Dany is going to arrive when most of them have been at war for years and are depleted. The only conceivable way there’s any meaningful opposition is if somebody can contest Dany’s control over the dragons.

      And, wouldn’t you know, GRRM introduced a villain who clearly has designs to do that. Who is now in the show, and with the same interest in Daenerys. And at the same time, Sam is headed to Oldtown and the Citadel, where the maesters are clearly interested in dragonlore and are indicated to have been behind the previous extinction of the Targaryen dragons.

      Luka Nieto,

      Back during filming they reported the casting of a Westerosi lord, described as the best remaining role for that season. The character didn’t have a Northern accent, and thus was presumably from the southern kingdoms. From the start my guess was that it’s Leyton Hightower. Some others guessed Rodrik Harlaw, but with the way Theon and Yara’s storyline now looks headed I don’t see why we’d see him at this point (I didn’t think it made sense at the time anyway, since the actor wasn’t at the Kingsmoot, and if Harlaw was showing up this season he’d surely have been there). Part of this character’s filming overlapped with a one-scene character called the “Captain of the Tower”, which again made me think of the High Tower.

      Wimsey:
      The Kinslaying Creed is a Westerosi one, and the Iron Born really are not Westerosi.Their customs and culture are very different.This is not to say that they are big on kinslaying: but it is to say that we should not assume that it is as big of a deal there.

      We don’t need to assume it, we know it is. In the books. In the show, there really isn’t a “kinslaying creed” anywhere in Westeros. We’ve seen multiple examples this season where people commit kinslaying and nobody cares at all. And that’s fine, if that’s the way the writers want to play it.

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    63. Sean C.: The actor has repeatedly suggested Euron has larger designs. While the plot has started slow, the pieces all seem to be there, or can be guessed to be based on other things.

      And the actor playing Thorne suggested that his character would be spending time coming to grips with Jon being back and in charge again.

      Sean C.: The only conceivable way there’s any meaningful opposition is if somebody can contest Dany’s control over the dragons.

      And, wouldn’t you know, GRRM introduced a villain who clearly has designs to do that.

      Except that this probably won’t be a huge issue in the books, either. For one thing, Daeny’s primary opposition will be from

      Aegon.

      After all, that would create not just plot, but story: this will create a real dilemma for Daeny that Euron and the rest of the World cannot; it is difficult to envision Euron creating anything but plot, as he would simply be another opponent about whom Daeny would not think twice about squashing. Unless an opponent is going to offer some serious “should I/shouldn’t I” issues for Daeny (or Jon or Tyrion), as has all of her (and his and his) prior opponents, it will detract from the tale.

      But, more important, the Walker vs. R’hllor vs. anything caught in between war is going to swamp that out in a hurry.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Kay: Hmmm…… all those men who sailed away under the leadership of a woman, Yara, certainly found him odd.

      Clearly another metaphor for the 2016 US presidential elections. *Yawn* Why don’t they try some original spoofing???

        Quote  Reply

    65. Ser Oromis Locke,

      7. The group manages to get out of the cave, Bran is still in the past.

      9. Bran isn’t able to warg present-Hodor this time, but instead -accidentally- wargs into young-Hodor.

      This implies
      7. Bran’s WeirNet ability is rootless.
      9. Bran can warg into beings within his WeirNet.

      This is Shrike level power.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Wimsey:
      After all, that would create not just plot, but story: this will create a real dilemma for Daeny that Euron and the rest of the World cannot;it is difficult to envision Euron creating anything but plot, as he would simply be another opponent about whom Daeny would not think twice about squashing.Unless an opponent is going to offer some serious “should I/shouldn’t I” issues for Daeny (or Jon or Tyrion), as has all of her (and his and his) prior opponents, it will detract from the tale.

      Yes, there’s no way that a villain having control of Dany’s “children” could possibly create real character drama for her. Moreover, the other character you mention isn’t in the show, whereas Euron is. That should perhaps be taken as an indicator.

        Quote  Reply

    67. “Yeah, he doesn’t have the Dragonbinder… or does he?’”

      I take this pretty much as confirmation we’ll get Dragonbinder, & very like he’ll get it and perhaps another magic artifact in Oldtown (the books strongly suggest he & Pate are after perhaps the same thing there).

      Perhaps one of the last scenes of the season is him blowing the horn and the wall falling and/or the dragons and characters all over Planatos hearing it.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Aguero,

      I argue with Apollo so I must be slightly crazy too.

      I don’t doubt that Pilou is a fine actor but apart from looking like Theon, I think he is miscast, thought his performance was under-whelming and thought His speech was just absurd. Without Dragonbinder, his speech to win the Ironborn makes buggar all sense to me sense.

      (A sports-jock who disappeared from school and was heard to have a criminal career and now comes back to grab the most popular girl in a town far away, cos he’s got a big cock and a flash car, when most of his mates ran outta fuel trying to get into town???)

      The Iron-born must be Truly fickle and stupid.

      “Let’s go Murder Them” (Ugh!)

      Both I’ll roll with it since I love this show.

        Quote  Reply

    69. I love it when Euron was like “now let’s go murda them” buwahahahahah. I hope we haven’t seen the last of Pilou for this season. #TeamEuron

        Quote  Reply

    70. Pilou is wonderful. And I found Euron’s basic non-reaction to having the ships and Theon/Yara bugger off on him pretty awesome. He’s nuts.

      I agree with Kristian, Hodor certainly didn’t seem like he was being warged as he held the door.

      Ian McShane is listed as ‘Al’. ?

        Quote  Reply

    71. Lord Stoneheart:
      Jorah is gonna give greyscale to the dragons and create terrifying gargoyles. It is known.

      It has long been my theory that the gargoyles that form the crenels of Dragonstone were created from living creatures bestoned by greyscale.

      GRRM spoke of Shireen and the gargoyles in the same breath as a hint.

      By that same means, dragons may really be stoned into the walls of Dragonstone. If that is true, one needs the anti-greyscale, not fire, to liberate the dragons from stone.

        Quote  Reply

    72. LatrineDiggerBrian:
      I love it when Euron was like “now let’s go murda them” buwahahahahah. Ihope we haven’t seen the last of Pilou for this season. #TeamEuron

      #EuronNation

        Quote  Reply

    73. ash,

      Yeah, I don’t know much about this Euron character but I do think the dialogue could be fresher. Some of it seems kinda stale and uninspired these days tbh.

        Quote  Reply

    74. mau,

      Where d’you hear that?

      Anyway… I don’t think we’re seeing any more Euron this season. He came out in a whimper instead of a roar, but I have to blame the writing on this. In the books he was much more impressive.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Arkash,

      I think people are way overestimating the amount of screentime Sam and Oldtown will have this season. They literally cast no supporting characters for that storyline. Sam will be alone without Gilly, he’ll be in a whole new location on the map, and he’ll only have one extra-grade maester to interact with? Yeah, that’s not happening.

      The fact D&D bothered with Oldtown at all means it’ll have some sort of significance in the future (my guess is it’ll be the stage of a big battle between Dany and Euron and her first political move on Westeros after rallying Dorne). So they’re going to have to cast some characters there.

      Jorah heading to Oldtown is an interesting possibility, as is one of our two Faceless Men (Jaqen/Waif) and Euron/Aeron, but that won’t cut it. Which is why I think Oldtown is merely being introduced this season, and will play a more significant role in the next (an appearance or two every couple of episodes, that is). I think they’ll cast a Marwyn and a Sarella, and that they’re special enough to carry Oldtown on their backs alongside extras and one-offs.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Tycho Nestoris,

      “You will never walk again, Brandon Stark, but you will fly.”

      What the Raven calls “flying” is a state of elevated consciense where Bran can be everywhere at once, see everything and now as we can see in the show he can also be everywhen at once too.

      The first time Bran meets the Raven in the books is before he wakes up after his fall in Winterfell. He’s falling, and the Raven tells him he has to fly, or he’ll die. In the last second, Bran manages to fly- and then he manages to see the whole world moving beneath him. He could see each of his family members, where they were, and even what they were thinking and feeling (!), he could see Dany IIRC and at the very end he saw what is only described as the “Heart of Winter”.

      Bran’s powers are immense, no doubt about that. But what role will they play in the battle against the White Walkers? Neither them nor their undead hordes can be warged, so Bran can’t affect them. Aside from insight on their movements, Bran can’t be on the offense. Ever. Because he can only work his magic on humans.

      So my theory on Bran is this: he plays the role of bringing humanity together. He’ll speak to Dany in visions and dreams, he’ll manipulate events in the capital, and he’ll create the best possible scenario for the climactic final battle against the White Walkers- while Jon hunts the Night’s King, which will be the key to defeating them once and for all.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Mihnea,

      Who will he interact wuth then? A scene requires at least two characters. Will he be talking to his ships? The only other character there is Aeron. After he lost Yara and Theon he became moot until a future interaction with Sam in Oldtown.

        Quote  Reply

    78. jentario,

      No idea where he will go or do.

      But from the casting call and interviews alone you can be sure Euron will have more then 2 scenes.
      My guess is he will be in EP7/8 and EP10.

        Quote  Reply

    79. HereBeDragons,

      Me too…. This season has been outstanding, I won’t let my feelings on Euron detract from that (I was never a fan in the books so it’s not like I had high hopes). 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    80. jentario,

      I agree. I don’t think we will see more of Euron this season either. Whatever has to happen in Oldtown, will happen next season. Even if dragonbinder is being included, it will be in s7. This season will only introduce us to Oldtown via Sam.
      I like the idea of Jorah going there too.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Marlana: It has long been my theory that the gargoyles that form the crenels of Dragonstone were created from living creatures bestoned by greyscale.

      GRRM spoke of Shireen and the gargoyles in the same breath as a hint.

      By that same means, dragons may really be stoned into the walls of Dragonstone.If that is true, one needs the anti-greyscale, not fire, to liberate the dragons from stone.

      The blood of kings (probably Azor Ahai’s blood) is prophesied to liberate dragons from stone. The blood of Azor Ahai will likely also provide the fuel to light Lightbringer since Beric Dondarrion lit his sword with his own blood. It just makes sense that Jon will someday do the same. And so you’re thinking that Jon’s blood could cure Jorah? I think that’s a good theory.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Gee,

      I heard that too and it would be awesome cliffhanger for this season. Euron needs more scenes to the fans can take him seriously.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Mihnea,

      I enjoyed it as well. I’m liking the Iron born story this season, I know they’re different from the books but I don’t mind as I only just started the second one.

        Quote  Reply

    84. AceFreezy,

      Good to hear!
      I wasn’t a huge fan of this storyline, book and show, but all the scenes we had this season with them were very good and I enjoyed them quite more then I ever thought I will.

        Quote  Reply

    85. I found Euron to be great so far in the 2 scenes he’s been in. I like the idea of him having more sides to him and being a different happy-go-lucky guy in public to put a show for the Kingsmoot, so I can see why the Ironborn voted for him.

      The last part where he got his best ships stolen was sloppy, though. It could only work if he adapts to this blunder of his.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Rogue Agent,

      I think the transition was the problem.

      It made it look like Euron thought Yara/Theon were still on that cliff but from the acting, his face, tone of voice all that, I thought it was quite clear, by that time he already knew they ran away, they just went there to see the ships, so we can see the ships.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Mihnea,

      I agree with this. I didn’t really mind that part. I liked how Euron wasn’t really shocked.

      I just wanted Euron to have someone guard the ships or at least confine his opposition until the Kingsmoot ceremony was fully completed. I could only see this as a good thing if Euron doesn’t really mind that Yara and Theon escaped, and plans to use them to his advantage somehow.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Rogue Agent,

      Well, it’s preaty much the same in the books….

      And I think they showed it preaty well that Theon/Yara didn’t just go to the ships, they sneaked through the cave..etc.

      I can see why it would bother some people, I guess it didn’t bother me, because I expected something like this happening.
      But I see were you are coming from.

        Quote  Reply

    89. jentario,

      The vision you cite also tells us that there is a curtain of energy at the top of Westeros and beyond the curtain, the reason Bran must live, because winter is coming. The curtain is the energy source for the WWs, and beyond the curtain, mayhaps the machineries that are terraforming the area north of the Wall to winter. If so, the WWs created the Wall to keep in the cold.

      So how did the WWs go from defense against First Men to what they are mow? Mayhaps they were co-opted by some external entity that wants an icy Planetos,

        Quote  Reply

    90. Rogue Agent: I just wanted Euron to have someone guard the ships or at least confine his opposition until the Kingsmoot ceremony was fully completed. I could only see this as a good thing if Euron doesn’t really mind that Yara and Theon escaped, and plans to use them to his advantage somehow.

      Again, Euron might simply have been too preoccupied with becoming King. He seemed to have won over the Iron Born there. The man also is not entirely sane: and, of course, that puts him in a long list of crazies on this show!

      But what really astounds me is what a good job Michiel Huisman does of looking so different here….. 😛

        Quote  Reply

    91. Ginevra,

      So far, burning king’s blood has not released dragons from stone.

      As to Jorah’s cure, whatever agent can undo the conversion of living beings to stone would “cure” greyscale.

      Mayhaps greyscale has been the agent to flow and shape stone in the Valyrian roads and castle walls.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Marlana: So how did the WWs go from defense against First Men to what they are mow? Mayhaps they were co-opted by some external entity that wants an icy Planetos,

      The same way that the Cylons went from being a tool for humans to an enemy of humans. (Or the Daleks went from being a tool for the Kaleds to their bane.) ((Or the Terminator robots went from being tools of people to their bane.)) In none of those cases were external forces to blame. In all cases, it is a combination of free-will AND overly general interpretation of “evil” that causes the tool of the creator to turn on the creator.

      Again, this twist has come up in numerous SciFi stories over the years. Insofar as I know, it is novel to Fantasy, but, then, fantasy typically has been much more simplistic than SciFi in that Fantasy often resorts to “good” and “evil” as real things (following Tolkien) whereas SciFi typically uses “good” and “evil” as relative viewpoints that are sources for character development (following Asimov).

      But there are two really important upshots to all of this. One, to an extent, the Walkers should be pitied. Two, the base “evil” creating this is human behavior.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Mihnea,

      Oh I completely forgot about them sneaking through the caves. In that case, I’m more okay with it than I was before (still wish they didn’t let anyone go until after the Kingsmoot 😛 ) – I hope to see more of him in this season. I want to see him more when he’s not in the public eye. If not, then next season I guess.

      Wimsey,

      You make a good point. The whole drowning thing was the main focus and everyone was into that, including Euron.

      And yeah, he is insane 😛

        Quote  Reply

    94. Seeing people complaining just because things differs from the books is tiring, but so is assuming that anything someone didn’t like is for that reason.
      Minhea, you did that a lot more often than any book purist moaning about differences.
      Stop being a D&D fanboy and wait to listen to people’s arguments before deciding for them why they think what they do, you’re the only one getting on my nerves because you’re doing that more than once in every single thread.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Little_Birds,

      What??

      I intentionally avoided some comments just not to get into a ”debate” about Euron..
      And engaged people who shared my opinion and even some of those who didn’t and we had a polite conversation.. Even if we agreed to disagree…

      I really have no clue what you are talking about….

        Quote  Reply

    96. ghost of winterfell: I think we get the pics on Fridays, so they should be released today. We don’t get any trailer though?

      There is no set day for pics really. HBO officially releases a few pics midweek (typically Wednesday). Any pics we get after that are unofficial, so there’s no set day and they show up randomly late week, if at all.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Bearded Onion: While the King’s Moot was a let down, I feel like Euron still has a chance to be awesome. I loved the bridge scene beforehand. Hopefully we see him a bit more this season.

      Mihnea:
      Dee,

      Most likely book-stuff so be careful for spoilers.

      How do you get that Bearded Onion didn’t like the scene because of book stuff based only on his quote ?

        Quote  Reply

    98. Little_Birds,

      Because I saw some of his previous comments on this and know he is a book-reader. That’s also why I said ”most likely”.
      Nor did I say there was anything wrong with it. I knew from the very beginning some people won’t like this Euron. That is exactly why I didn’t really enter a debate, because I can understand it, I don’t share their opinions but I understand it.

      I didn’t mean it in a rude way, I was just warning her of potential spoilers.

      Like the Dragonhorn, if it does end up in the story.

      I think you misunderstood my comment or perhaps I didn’t do a good job at making myself clear enough.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Wimsey,

      but, then, fantasy typically has been much more simplistic than SciFi in that Fantasy often resorts to “good” and “evil” as real things (following Tolkien) whereas SciFi typically uses “good” and “evil” as relative viewpoints that are sources for character development (following Asimov).

      Fantasy more simplistic? I’d beg to differ – I’ve read lots of fantasy and sci fican findand can find simplistict examples of each. Or perhaps you mean simplistic in anoher way Godtta go ack later. to say more

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    100. Wimsey:

      Again, this twist has come up in numerous SciFi stories over the years.Insofar as I know, it is novel to Fantasy, but, then, fantasy typically has been much more simplistic than Sci-Fi…

      So external causes would be a novel-to-Fantasy twist at the end. Bigger than all the other (people driven) twists along the way. Never could happen. And GRRM goes for the unexpected even shocking. Hmmm

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    101. ash:
      Wimsey,

      I’d beg to differ – I’ve read lots of fantasy and sci fi, and have found that there isn’t a straight definition of either.

      Mayhaps you and I are in agreement as to what could possibly explain the various mysteries that are currently attributed to magic or “that’s just Fantasy.”

      Some posters seem to feel that Fantasy has hard boundaries, and no explanations can transgress these boundaries, or contradict what has been written before in Fantasy. All the while expecting GRRM to supply amazing twists. The more amazing the twist, the more outside the expectations. Or outside the box, as the cliche goes.

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    102. jentario,

      Bran can’t be on the offense. Ever. Because he can only work his magic on humans.

      Are you using “humans” as a general term for living things or do mean only humans. Do you think Bran could warg a dragon?

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    103. For the watch: Sue the fury a gracious host, please forgive my endless post; In my folly and ignorance, I’ll try to make the most. Bullies may come and tell me to go ,make quick judgements be for they know. A man is not what you see in his letter, but being an ass will make it no better; My opinion may not please all ,but hey fuck you this is the wall. I know some day my watch will end, when it does I’ll fly middle finger to the wind.

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    104. Marlana:
      Ginevra,

      So far, burning king’s blood has not released dragons from stone.

      As to Jorah’s cure, whatever agent can undo the conversion of living beings to stone would “cure” greyscale.

      Mayhaps greyscale has been the agent to flow and shape stone in the Valyrian roads and castle walls.

      I don’t think that burning kings or those with king’s blood will do much of anything. I do think that smearing blood on the stone is what will wake them, and one should definitely not need to die to make that happen. One might also argue that Baratheons weren’t the rightful kings, though clearly their blood had power. But to wake dragons from stone should take dragon blood, right?

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    105. Ginevra,

      You bring forward some interesting ideas. Room temperature agent applied to stone to release bestoned critters or cure greyscale.

      If dragon’s blood releases dragons, we need dragons to get dragons. How do you persuade a dragon to donate blood? And then a dragon incubator to hatch dragon’s eggs.

      Looking forward to reveals of bestoning/destoning, If ever such details are written.

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    106. Ginevra

      To add to your dragon releasing agents, I’m going to postulate another use for obsidian, given that obsidian interferes with WWs energy and, when smelted with iron, creates dragonsteel (Valarian steel). Obsidian is mentioned too many times in ASoIaF to not have even more uses.

      Obsidian is also close to hand at Valyria and Dragonstone, where it was created from the rapid cooling of lava.

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    107. Mihnea:
      Wimsey,

      You got me here good Wimsey…

      Also what did you think of Cirian Hinds as Rhaegar, I thought he was great…..

      I really wonder where this theory came from? It is completely illogical, even more than HS=HR.

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    108. Chimeny:
      Am I missing why Euron’s been associated with Trump? To me it just seems that the interviewer is desperate to bring Trump/politics into this for some reason…

      I guess because he’s really populist.

      With the elections approaching, soon we will talk of nothing else.

      On topic now, I really truly do not care about the Ironborn. In my view, they are the biggest a_holes in Westeros and so far incredibly boring.
      Adding Euron is a progress though. It is obvious, to my eyes, that this is the true Ironborn. Yara (and of course Theon) are way too civilized. He is all drunken comradeship and at the same time a complete sociopath. Or even right criminally insane.
      So I found him mildly interesting, compared to the total indifference for the Ironborn so far.
      Having said that, I would’t complain if an earthquake hit the Iron Islands and their plot were completely abandoned.
      Actually, it is the contrary to Dorne: the Iron Islands have great acting but zero appeal. Dorne could have been exciting but for the awful acting (and writing).

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    109. Mihnea:
      Sou,

      Why?

      ha ha please don’t tell me that there is an actual character named Ray! (I have only read the first novel and a part of the second)
      I really cannot picture a GOT character by the name of Ray (unless it’s a child of the forest) so maybe they put that as a joke? Like, trolling us?

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    110. ash: Fantasy more simplistic? I’d beg to differ – I’ve read lots of fantasy and sci fican findand can find simplistict examples of each.

      Televised and cinematic SciFi often is pretty simplistic, with “good guys” and “bad guys.” And much of that is because of the huge influence of Tolkien, who was very much of the opinion that stories were to be told with plot rather than character, and that they were supposed to be a forum for expressing “moral truths.” (In Tolkien’s defense, he studied ancient stories that were essentially religious myths: and the point of such stories was to show what was good and what was bad.) Much of “epic” fantasy has followed suit: stories rarely have true protagonists, there often is true “evil” and “good,” and any major insights by characters are unraveling riddles rather than themselves.

      SciFi tends to be much more like normal fiction simply because it’s almost always about how individuals cope with challenges. The big appeal of SciFi for authors is that they can play with how people will react when notions of humanity themselves are challenged. That is, what happens if machines start thinking? What happens when machines replace much of day-to-day drudgery that was so much of how humans based their lives? And that is one huge difference between SciFi and Epic Fantasy: Epic Fantasy often is set in static worlds whereas SciFI usually is set in evolving societies; thus, SciFi characters frequently are dealing with issues that have a lot of modern parallels. And, of course, these novels almost always have true protagonists and rarely have “good” or “evil.”

      (This schism between SciFi writers and Epic Fantasy writers had a lot to do with the founding of the Nebula awards: even by the late 1960’s, a lot of SciFi writers were upset about the literary quality of Tolkien knock-offs.)

      Now, this is not universally true: despite Damon Knight’s admonishment that any book with a map on the inside cover was guaranteed to be a bad one, there are occasionally some “epic fantasy” works that basically are novels set in a vaguely medieval world with magic. GRRM wrote 3 or 4 good ones! Stephen Donaldson’s Thomas Covenant series (which is basically like Narnia, but if Narnia was hell) are gritty and nasty enough (and heavily enough character driven) to rival the average Booker nomination. But…. it’s much further from being universally false.

      (Full confession: I am an ardent Tolkien fan who basically thinks that he wrote the first and last good story of its kind!)

      All of that written, what we saw last weekend was much closer to something that we would see in Science Fiction than in Fantasy. The “bad guys” are not “evil”: instead, they are something created to fight a subjective “evil” that went amok. Lots and lots of SciFi stories have played with this idea. But GRRM just smashed a lot of classic fantasy tropes right there, particularly in that the original “evil” is humanity.

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    111. Chimeny: Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

      I would write “I am happy to do so”: but, really, the whole thing is just too tragic…. 😀

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