Nikolaj Coster-Waldau talks death by dragon fire; Game of Thrones providing a boost to Icelandic economy

Jaime Lannister

Nikolaj Coster Waldau discusses his dreams of going out in a blaze of glory and more in a new interview, plus Game of Thrones is having some surprising repercussions for one of its filming locations.


The Observer caught up with Nikolaj Coster-Waldau to chat about his new film Small Crimes. Alongside recalling some delightful Danish scandals from his youth (one involves a stolen video game and the principal of his middle school’s wife having an affair with another teacher), Nikolaj shares a few Thrones tidbits, including how he’d like Jaime to die.

It has to be a dragon death.  It’s got to be the dragons that get him…just fried, he has to burn. Has to.

According to Coster-Waldau, this would make a perfect circle with the episode Kissed by Fire, in which Jaime reveals to Brienne that he had killed Aerys to prevent the Mad King from destroying King’s Landing with wildfire.  He comments: ‘That scene in season 3 was a very important moment….which is why I think Jaime should be killed by fire.’

The actor hedges his bets when asked directly if this is a spoiler or not, although he admits that in the past he has accidentally let some things slip, he claims that no-one picked up on them.

 For years there was the whole thing with ‘book readers’ who knew what was going to happen. But it is more intense now, because nobody knows….If you go online you can definitely read every plot point that’s going to happen.  You can find the ending of Game of Thrones on the internet. It’s there. But you wouldn’t know. Of course, nobody really wants to know.

So, is Jaime’s death by fire just some wishful thinking on Nikolaj’s part, or the truth hidden in plain sight?  Sooner or later we’ll find out.  Or, as the actor himself comments: ‘you’ll remember this when you’re watching next season. You’ll be like, ‘Oh, fuck.’ ‘

You can check out the rest of the interview, which includes lots more on Small Crimes here.


Iceland

There’s also some interesting Thrones-related financial news out today.

Bloomberg reports that after Iceland’s much publicised 2008-2011 financial crisis and recent interest-rate cuts, the Icelandic Krona is now back up to strength and is even beating out the euro and the dollar.  These gains have been attributed in part to the increased tourism from fans of shows such as Game of Thrones, who hope for a glimpse of some of the filming locations.  Fans of James Bond also flock to the area to visit Jökulsárlón, a glacial lake which featured in both A View to a Kill and Die Another Day, as well as Lara Croft: Tomb Raider and Batman Begins.

Reykjavik based economist Jon Bjarki Bentsson commented that, ‘The (economic) trend has been toward further appreciation and we expect some further appreciation throughout the summer.  The surge in tourism has outpaced the growing deficit on goods trade.’

Iceland received a record 1.8 million foreign visitors in 2016, a forty percent annual jump that followed on from a thirty percent increase in 2015. Thanks to this fantastic boom in tourism, the government is even considering the possibility of raising taxes in the tourism sector.  Fans of the glorious Icelandic locations showcased so beautifully in Game of Thrones might want to plan their Nordic adventures before the place becomes too crowded!

You can read the full article here.

68 responses

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    1. “You can find the end of Game of Thrones on the internet. It’s there.”

      So…NC-W is privy to the ending of the series? He makes it seem like Jaime must at least make it close to the end.

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    2. I was in Iceland in December and January (I left about a week after the GOT crew showed up). In downtown Reykjavik, you are hard pressed to find someone speaking Icelandic. It’s full of Americans… and a mix of other countries. That boost in tourism has of course created an economic boom of sorts in Iceland, though one has to wonder how long it will last. For now, downtown Reykjavik is what I have started to call “Little America.” It’s still a beautiful and fun place to go, but if you decide to go to Iceland and want to see the real country, leave the city. That’s where you’ll still see actual Iceland.

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    3. It has to be a dragon death. It’s got to be the dragons that get him…just fried, he has to burn. Has to.

      That scene in season 3 was a very important moment….which is why I think Jaime should be killed by fire.

      Or, as the actor himself comments: ‘you’ll remember this when you’re watching next season. You’ll be like, ‘Oh, fuck.’

      Hmm… Does it sound like he’s teasing us and attempting to raise tension for one specific scene we’ve heard hints of?

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    4. I’ve always hoped Jaime would make the ultimate sacrifice. My theory is that the Nights King would take the Kingsroad all the way to KL, the Red Keep even… But there Jaime will be waiting – with a gift of all the wildfire going off at once … Now THAT would be full circle! Sacrifice the city to save the world, no?

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    5. Dear Iceland,

      Your country looks lovely.

      I will never visit until you stop hunting and slaughtering whales, including endangered Fin Whales, as well as Minke Whales.

      Rejoin the International Whaling Commission without your prior “reservation” to the IWC’s commitment to ZERO commercial whaling.

      Thanks.

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    6. Wasn’t it two weeks ago he was wanting Jaime to die of old age surrounded by his children with Brienne? And wasn’t it last year he wanted Brienne to kill Jaime?

      The man can’t be trusted to leak a decent spoiler. It’s a good thing he’s so pretty.

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    7. Speaking of dragonfire…

      Yesterday, at my wife’s request, I took a 100 question Game of Thrones quiz. I got 95 out of 100 correct. 1 of the 5 questions that I got wrong was:

      What does ‘Dracarys’ mean?

      I assumed it meant fire, but apparently, it specifically translates to dragonfire. I’m still pissed I got that question wrong. I mean, it does kind of say dragon at the beginning of the word. I should’ve figured that one out.

      Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled programming…

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    8. Mr Derp,

      Could you post the link, please? I’m curious how well I do in that quiz… and I promise I’ll let the question you mentioned above unsolved, as I would have “translated” it as “release your fire”.

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    9. HotPinkLipstick,

      Have you seen him (with his beard!) in Small Crimes? If yes, I’m curious what’s your opinion about the ending.
      Actually, that’s a question to anyone interested.
      I follow the GOT actors’ careers and I’m very happy for every role they add to their cvs.

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    10. Mr Derp,

      Thank you! My final score says 96, but it’s actually 95, because I wouldn’t have said “Olenna” without your help 😉

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    11. I love how Nikolaj constantly mixes up and changes his answers to the same questions, how his gonna die constantly changes, his character view of Cersei constantly changes, his opinion on whether or not Jamie will be involved in the Valonqar Prophecy constantly changes. He just loves screwing with us honestly.

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    12. Iceland, one does wonder about season 8, there could be a need for a quite extended Winter Settings. Recalling there was scouting of Scandinavian locations last production season, do not know how that played out.

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    13. Mel,

      Yeah, you’re right. He’s just screwing with us.

      If he came even remotely close to divulging how he dies or any specific plot point, one or both of the following would happen:

      • The showrunners would make sure to give him an INglorious death, eg, intestinal blockage caused by a broken-off golden digit; a massive coronary while seated on the privy; accidentally falling out of a window; or severing his own femoral artery while drawing his sword.

      •. He would be in breach of the nondisclosure and confidentiality clause of his contract and forfeit his much ballyhooed multimillion dollar payday.

      In fact, I think we can now safely say that he will NOT perish by dragon fire.

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    14. Shy Lady Dragon,

      I have seen Small Crimes. The ending seemed fitting for the character. It was fun to watch Nikolaj play such a complete loser. I can’t say I loved them film, but it did make me laugh.

      Roberta Baratheon,

      That stupid duck! Nikolaj has this sort of honest, believable face, but he’s the biggest troll. Then again, that face….

      At this point, I think he has a dart board of possible Jaime deaths and before each interview, he hits one and that’s what he says.

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    15. HotPinkLipstick,

      I had neither expected a redeeming ending, nor a “happy-ending for our anti-hero because Nikolaj”. But it seemed to me their solution favoured surprise instead of credibility.

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    16. Shy Lady Dragon,

      I haven’t seen “Small Crimes” yet, but I do highly recommend a lovely little 2008 Greek mystery/comedy/romance movie called “Small Crime” (“Mikro eglima”), which my wife and I agree is the best tv date night for mystery/romance fans since Cary Grant met Eva Saint Marie in the train dining car in “North By Northwest.” 😉

      http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1077252/

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    17. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Good luck! It’s a well done movie which it makes me wish neighborhood movie rental shops that had a good foreign section were still around. 😉

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    18. Rygritte:
      KissedByFirewyrms, Close to the end,
      Jaime: Brienne, will you cut my meat for the rest of my life?
      Brienne: I swear it by the old gods and the new!

      [Camera pans out from their apartment in a luxury Westeros old age home to show mass devastation around it] 😉

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    19. I get why filming was pushed back, but good gosh this break has seemed interminable. My patience is exhausted, my excitement waning. I mean, I tried to watch a S6 episode last night to get back in the mood and instead I just got more annoyed.

      Yeah yeah I know my excitement will come back, but this season – short as it is – better rock the Casbah. 🙂

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    20. Something tells me we have nothing to worry about on that score. And when you get really impatient, think of how long book readers waited for books 4 and 5 to appear!

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    21. ash,

      Think of how long book readers will have to wait for A Dream of Spring:

      When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east. When the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Then ADOS will be released, and not before.

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    22. Yeah right. As if a dragon would take one look at Nikolaj’s smoldering good looks and not faint dead away in a swoon.

      “Well I do declare, Mr. Jaime, I believe I have the vapors.”

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    23. Roberta Baratheon: It is a good thing he’s so pretty, or we’d never forgive him for the duck!

      ? Er, what did he do to a duck? Nothing too cruel, I hope!

      Evpwiggin: Now THAT would be full circle! Sacrifice the city to save the world, no?

      Killing his sister to save the city would be a better circle.

      Ten Bears: In fact, I think we can now safely say that he will NOT perish by dragon fire.

      Well, as they almost certainly have not told him what Jaime’s final fate is, Coster-Waldau’s guess is as good as anyone’s, and probably better than most people’s. He seems to be one of the cast member’s that has become a fan and who is genuinely interested in how the plotlines and character arcs will resolve. That written, I suspect that he probably is keeping his best guesses close to his chest: he seems to enjoy joking about it.

      If he is accidentally getting it correct, then I doubt that B&W or GRRM will alter Jaime’s ending because of it. Coster-Waldau is almost certainly correct: more or less the correct “endings” have been suggested by someone out there on the Internet. (GRRM noted this 15 years ago!) Of course, that also means that 99.99% of the suggested endings are wrong. It was the same thing with Harry Potter: among the millions of posited endings, the basics were put forth before the last book came out. Interestingly, a lot of fans (or at least a very vocal group of them) were convinced that the ending would be very different: I have always suspected that the hardcore fans were less apt to anticipate the ending than were the more casual ones! If nothing else, then hardcore fans were more apt to develop elaborate scenarios based on very minor details in the HP books that the casual fans would never have noticed: so, in some ways the hardcore fans were more predisposed to get it wrong because they were considering many more scenarios!

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    24. Mr Derp,

      For someone whose watched GoT at least a dozen times, I only achieved 75% which is pretty piss poor 🙁

      I didn’t see the question – “What does Dracarys mean?” which I did know. So perhaps not all the questions are the same every time on running the quiz? I’ll try it again 🙂

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    25. Wimsey,

      Your definitely right, there is a very good chance someone has predicted the ending but there is also a good chance it’s not as well known theory as R+L=J it could be a much less popular theory that devoted fans have pushed under the rug and more general fans have thought up of. Needless to say, all the people who have had theories of the ending will probably be upset they were wrong and even perhaps someone not as into GOT as they are predicted the ending.

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    26. Black Raven:
      Mr Derp,

      For someone whose watched GoT at least a dozen times, I only achieved 75% which is pretty piss poor ?

      I didn’t see the question – “What does Dracarys mean?”which I did know. So perhaps not all the questions are the same every time on running the quiz? I’ll try it again ?

      OK, Just did the test again and got 99% which is pretty good. I did notice that not all the questions were the same or in the same order. Still no – “What does Dracarys mean?” question. So presume the test does mix around the questions or change some of them whenever its rerun. On the second attempt, there was a question about how does Robin Arryn like to see people killed and one of the choices was via The Moon Door and that question wasn’t there the first time I ran the test?

      I’ll try again tomorrow and see what changes 🙂

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    27. Mel: Needless to say, all the people who have had theories of the ending will probably be upset they were wrong and even perhaps someone not as into GOT as they are predicted the ending.

      Indeed, even if the most popular conjectures turn out to be correct, then most of the hardcore fans will be wrong! And given that many of the rival ideas are directly at odds with one another, a lot of people will be displeased. It will be like a plurality-wins election with 15 different parties, several of which are running on a “Death to to the Other Parties” platform….

      Still, the one thing that we should keep in mind is that if B&W and GRRM do their jobs properly, then people watching the show once or reading the books once will understand the motivations of the main characters at the grand finale. If the climax hinges on some little tidbit squirrelled away in the middle of a forgettable chapter or filler scene, then the storytellers will have done an awful job.

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    28. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Mr Derp,

      FINAL SCORE: 97%
      Congrats! You are truly worthy of the Iron Throne.

      Yay I got most right, but honestly I struggled with some of the questions that had names of people that were in like only one episode and you don’t think of again.
      I’ve always thought Dracarys was Old Valyrian and it meant something akin to Blow Fire or Burn That lol

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    29. Wimsey,

      The duck was fine, the fans not so much! Nikolaj was holding an inflatable duck while stating that it was hint well-known for the fans.

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    30. Mr Derp
      Shy Lady Dragon

      Fun quiz, thanks. Only 87%, made some silly errors, fast fingers rather than fast brain. Enlightened me to the black hole in my GoT knowledge; the Dothraki. All those quoro, rakharo, moro oros just merge together in my head.

      Several years long time reader, first time poster (except for a failed Hodor attempt)… Hi all

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    31. Anyone who sign on to that stupid goofy chaotic mess of a movie, Gods of Egypt, … well… I can’t take seriously.

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    32. b,

      That’s a bit unfair. He didn’t know the movie was going to turn out the way it did. He signed up for a blockbuster budget that was going to pay him a ton of money.

      There are other reasons not to take anything he says about GoT seriously, but they aren’t related to his film role choices.

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    33. Shy Lady Dragon: Nikolaj was holding an inflatable duck while stating that it was hint well-known for the fans.

      OK, I’m totally lost on that. When are ducks or duck-shaped boats or something like that relevant in (I am assuming) the books? Or is this an allusion to the swan-shaped boats of Lorien in Lord of the Rings and something that GRRM said about LotR?

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    34. HotPinkLipstick,

      In fact, the Gods of Egipt worked pretty well for me – at least much better than the latest Star Wars/The Force Awakens which ruined the whole saga for me (I still can’t force myself to watch the Rouge One, yet). Meanwhile the Gods of Egipt turned out to be much better than I expected: the script/story was pretty fine for such a movie, IMO it was the directing that didn’t work. And NCW was quite enjoyable as Horus. In general, I have to admit that I had a good time.

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    35. Inga,

      All in all, I thought GoE was a bit silly, and the perspective filming was a disaster. Nikolaj had his tongue firmly in cheek, I think, with the acting. Of course, he was neither the director, nor the producer, nor the casting director for the film, and there were so many issues there.

      My larger problem with Nikolaj in GoE was that they took a man who looks like he does, and gave him greasy mobster hair. Why in the world would anyone try to hide his hotness? I had the same problem with Rodrigo Santoro as Xerxes.

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    36. Wimsey:

      It was the same thing with Harry Potter: among the millions of posited endings, the basics were put forth before the last book came out.Interestingly, a lot of fans (or at least a very vocal group of them) were convinced that the ending would be very different: I have always suspected that the hardcore fans were less apt to anticipate the ending than were the more casual ones!If nothing else, then hardcore fans were more apt to develop elaborate scenarios based on very minor details in the HP books that the casual fans would never have noticed: so, in some ways the hardcore fans were more predisposed to get it wrong because they were considering many more scenarios!

      This is something I’ve been thinking about lately. I was a hardcore HP fan and knew the books backwards and forwards. While I didn’t have elaborate theories based on small details, I certainly was adamant about some theories not being endgame because they were either inconsistent with what was in the books or what JKR had said in interviews or because it was weak storytelling. Oops. Turns out I was wrong about 2 big issues. While I don’t know ASOIAF in that level of detail, I do know the stories well enough to know I should be wary of falling into such traps. After all, authors have their own ideas and are telling their stories, not the one I assume they are telling.

      I love watching You Tube videos of people who have that level of ASOIAF knowledge, just crazy level of detail and the ability to cross reference very obscure details. I, however, watch their elaborate theory videos with a healthy dose of skepticism because I think sometimes people can’t see the forest for the trees. They find an obscure connection and then build a series of theories based on one assumption. If that one assumption is proved false, the whole theory tower falls apart. After so much thought and theorizing, can they ever be satisfied with an ending that counters all they presume to “know”? Point is, Fellow Fans, have fun with your theorizing, but don’t get too invested that you have it all worked out.

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    37. At this point in fandom, there are so many theories that people accept as gospel. It’s annoying when people stifle any discussion of theories that are contrary to that gospel.

      (Yeah, I’m looking at the people infected with valonqar disease.)

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    38. Chreechree: Turns out I was wrong about 2 big issues.

      Which two? The two “big” ones were the nature of Harry’s scar and the “why” of Snape. It seems that most people I knew figured out what those were from the 6th book. However, a lot of hardcore Harry Potter fans got those very wrong.

      Chreechree: I, however, watch their elaborate theory videos with a healthy dose of skepticism because I think sometimes people can’t see the forest for the trees.

      And that’s the best metaphor for this sort of thing. Stories are forests, details are trees. Every tree has a lot of details, and there is a reason why it is in it’s position, state-of-health, etc. However: a forest has to have trees. Similarly, stories have to have lots of backdrop.

      Still, fan conjecture falls into two different camps. Ecological communities such as forests often are labelled by the dominant species because in many ways they are the most important ones to understand. This is true with stories, too: in a well-told story, the major points of emphasis are the most important. (Note that I am stressing “well-told”: stories with major “unfired” Chekhovian guns and/or with Deus ex Machina plotting do not follow this, but those almost always are poorly-told stories.) Fans have a habit of focusing on “rare species” analogs and expecting them to wind up being the important things: it’s like taking a forest that is 90% oak and elms, but then focusing on the 5% that are evergreens.

      The other thing that fans do (and I’ve seen this with both HP & SoI&F fans) is put in imaginary trees. A lot of “fan-theories” basically assume that bigfoot is in the forest and go from there. However: we have no confirmation (and often only dubious evidence) that bigfoot is actually there! So, fans don’t just lose the forest for the trees: they often lose it for the imaginary denizens!

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    39. HotPinkLipstick: Book fans jumped on Rolly Duckfield, thinking that he was going to appear and that we were going to get the Griffs.

      Ah, OK that explains why I did not get the reference: I have no idea who Rolly Duckfield is (other than someone in Aegon the Umpteenth’s retinue). Of course, I last Dragons 6 years ago.

      But, seriously: did that really fool anyone? Aegon would have been a pretty prominent part, and we would have gotten wind of appropriate casting for that role. We were keeping an eye out for it, too, as last season is the one where they would have started that plotthread if they were going to do it at all.

      (I must have been busy at the time because I have zero memory of “Duckgate.” Well, that, or it was so unmemorable that I forgot it afterwards.)

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    40. Catspaw Assassin,

      I am most blessed to live in a place where there is such an establishment (my favorite movie-rental store ever!), and it still thrives. In fact, last year one of the co-owners partnered with another local business owner to purchase our historic local movie theater, opened in 1914 (the oldest movie theater in the U.S. actually built as a movie theater), so it’s once again independently owned and not in the clutches of a clueless corporation. Now we get foreign and indie films on the big screen again, in a grown-up theater complete with table service for local food, beer and wine. 🙂

      /digression

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    41. Wimsey,

      I often tend to think of people (especially people with whom I work, or people with whom I discuss literature) as “forest people” or “trees people.” Hardcore fans who spin elaborate final scenarios based on the minor details of actions performed by non-protagonists definitely fall into the latter category.

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    42. Chreechree,

      Oops. I posted my comment above before I read yours (forest, trees). I had been trying to be efficient and respond to four or five comments at once after reading through a whole thread, but then my comments kept getting trapped in Spam. Can’t win either way!

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    43. Wimsey: OK, I’m totally lost on that.When are ducks or duck-shaped boats or something like that relevant in (I am assuming) the books?Or is this an allusion to the swan-shaped boats of Lorien in Lord of the Rings and something that GRRM said about LotR?

      If it’s a duck, it must float. If it floats….

      BURN IT!

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    44. Wolfish: Hardcore fans who spin elaborate final scenarios based on the minor details of actions performed by non-protagonists definitely fall into the latter category.

      heh, well, every fandom has them! Obviously, there is no wrong reason to like something: whatever floats your inflatable duck, as they say. However, I am much too lazy to imagine things for myself: as far as I am concerned, I am paying Martin, Rowling, Gaiman, etc., to imagine things for me. I am quite happy to think about what they imagine because I love a good mystery. However, unless GRRM starts slipping $10 bills into my copies of his books (which is extremely difficult now that I buy only iBooks), I’m not imagining a damn thing on my own! 😀

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    45. Wimsey: Which two?The two “big” ones were the nature of Harry’s scar and the “why” of Snape.It seems that most people I knew figured out what those were from the 6th book.However, a lot of hardcore Harry Potter fans got those very wrong.

      Yes, it was those two. I still feel the why of Snape is lame. I knew it was a possibility but hoped it wasn’t true. Most of my hardcore friends all agreed it would feel trite, and it’s still the element of the series that disappoints me most. I wanted him to be a true double agent, not out for good or evil, but out for himself and, therefore, whichever side was winning. I wanted a comeuppance. As for the scar, that was where knowing too much pointed me the wrong way. While I knew it explained much, it would have to be deliberately created, which it was not. It was an accident, which seemed to violate what we knew. I assumed another explanation would be forthcoming, but it wasn’t. I’ve made peace with that one as it does work, but I wish the setup had been different to make me feel better about “well, it just happened – like *cough cough* magic!” While trying to be vague in writing this, I hope that didn’t make me sound too much like an idiot.

      Wimsey:

      Fans have a habit of focusing on “rare species” analogs and expecting them to wind up being the important things: it’s like taking a forest that is 90% oak and elms, but then focusing on the 5% that are evergreens.

      The other thing that fans do (and I’ve seen this with both HP & SoI&F fans) is put in imaginary trees.A lot of “fan-theories” basically assume that bigfoot is in the forest and go from there.However: we have no confirmation (and often only dubious evidence) that bigfoot is actually there!So, fans don’t just lose the forest for the trees: they often lose it for the imaginary denizens!

      Yes and yes! All fandoms are guilty of both of these. I see it a lot in ASOIAF as people get distracted by Stannis, Doran, Littlefinger, and Aegon. These books are about the next generation, the Stark children, Dany, and Tyrion in particular. If you’re looking for solutions outside of them, I think you’re looking in the wrong place. Other characters are, of course, crucial in shaping events, but Littlefinger won’t end the series on the Iron Throne.

      As for Bigfoots, they live! The one I’ve been seeing everywhere lately is that Ned and Ashara were deeply in love, had an affair, married, had Jon, that Ned never loved Cat, and that all the Stark kids are really Snows. Is it possible? Yes. Are there clues in the text that support that possibility? Yes. Is it what makes the most sense based on all of the other textual information? No, not even close, but that’s just my opinion and perhaps I will be proven wrong. Others are more than welcome to their theory crafting. As you said in another post, I’m paying the authors (I love Gaiman, too) to imagine these things for me. I’m too lazy to work out the story myself.

      Wolfish,
      No worries!

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    46. Chreechree: The one I’ve been seeing everywhere lately is that Ned and Ashara were deeply in love, had an affair, married, had Jon, that Ned never loved Cat, and that all the Stark kids are really Snows.

      Wow, that wouldn’t be totally arbitrary or anything, would it? And to think, I had thought that all of the Dayneites had disappeared, too! Once upon a time (as in, during the Clinton presidency!), they were a very vocal contingent of the fandom. I wonder what they think of what happened on the show: I suppose that they rationalize it by telling themselves that GRRM wanted people who didn’t understand who Jon’s mother is to do the TV adaptation. And once Winter is published and we get the same thing, then they will tell themselves that GRRM changed it and even was forced to change it!

      One thing with which I do agree is that Ned and Catelyn were never in love. Oh, sure, a love grew between them: but they never actually were in love. I thought that Catelyn’s little speech to Robb was perfect for her type of character but also something that only someone who never had been in love could make: romantic love is “bad” and “unstable” whereas “married friends who have sex” love is the only good kind.

      As for Ned and Ashara, my suspicion is that it was Brandon who fathered her child. Yes, Ned might well have been smitten by her: but Brandon was the outgoing, better-looking and (seemingly) more charismatic one who would have been more apt to pursue her. As all men know (because all men see themselves as Ned in this situation), it’s your better looking brother or friend who gets the girl in that situation! (And if he has an English accent: well, game over before it begins….)

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    47. Wimsey: Wow, that wouldn’t be totally arbitrary or anything, would it?And to think, I had thought that all of the Dayneites had disappeared, too!Once upon a time (as in, during the Clinton presidency!), they were a very vocal contingent of the fandom.I wonder what they think of what happened on the show: I suppose that they rationalize it by telling themselves that GRRM wanted people who didn’t understand who Jon’s mother is to do the TV adaptation.And once Winter is published and we get the same thing, then they will tell themselves that GRRM changed it and even was forced to change it!

      Ha, well, I haven’t been part of the fandom that long. The Dayneites never went away, but there’s a recent resurgence due to a relatively new YouTube channel that posted a very detailed series of videos on the topic. It’s very well argued. I’ve seen people citing that video series as the reason for their newfound belief that N+A=J. Some of these people have never read the books. I find this odd as they ignore the show clearly saying that Lyanna is Jon’s mother but believe these YouTubers instead. I think you are correct that these theorists believe that GRRM wanted the show to give the wrong answer to Jon’s parentage. I saw yet another YouTuber who doesn’t believe Jon is Lyanna’s (I think he believes Jon is Brandon and Ashara’s), and he was laughing about people buying into the show version. Of course, they forget that GRRM also thought the show probably wouldn’t catch up with the books when he initially discussed these issues with D&D.

      Is there something more to the Tower of Joy and the subsequent trip to Starfall? Probably. Ned’s fever dream is not the most reliable of memories. The multiple baby swaps and misdirection, however, seem too convoluted whereas the need for the absolute secrecy of Jon’s parentage only truly makes sense if Rhaegar was his father, not if he is Ned’s or Brandon’s. The theorists claim oddly claim that GRRM wants to distract us with R+L=J to obscure the truth. This makes zero sense as Ashara is the first candidate presented to us as Jon’s mother, and Lyanna is never mentioned as a possibility. I have to admit though that the idea of Jon wielding Dawn as the Sword of the Morning has a strong appeal, so I understand why this is a popular theory.

      Wimsey:

      As for Ned and Ashara, my suspicion is that it was Brandon who fathered her child.Yes, Ned might well have been smitten by her: but Brandon was the outgoing, better-looking and (seemingly) more charismatic one who would have been more apt to pursue her.As all men know (because all men see themselves as Ned in this situation), it’s your better looking brother or friend who gets the girl in that situation!(And if he has an English accent: well, game over before it begins….)

      I agree that Brandon is likely the father of Ashara’s stillborn or otherwise missing child. As for better looking guys with an English accent, yeah, game over, but we females suffer the same fate when out with a blue eyed, blond friend who happens to be well-endowed.

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    48. Chreechree: we females suffer the same fate when out with a blue eyed, blond friend who happens to be well-endowed.

      huh, what: where you saying something?

      (Actually, it was well-endowed red-heads that did it for me: but your point is taken! Of course, the well-endowed red-head usually was taken by that smarmy English guy…. 🙁 )

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