Nikolaj Coster-Waldau addresses Game of Thrones season 7 leaks & Jaime’s stare

Jaime Lannister (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) and Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey).  Photo: Helen Sloan/HBO

Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) and Cersei Lannister (Lena Headey). Photo: Helen Sloan/HBO

Nikolaj Coster-Waldau continues on his promotion tour for his new Netflix film, Small Crimes —and that’s as good as opportunity as any to talk Game of Thrones, as he has done time and again. This time, the man better known to us as Jaime Lannister has addressed the dreaded leaks and their veracity, as well as the much discussed stare that Jaime gave his sister upon his return to the capital in The Winds of Winter.

BUILD hosted Coster-Waldau, who was interviewed by Huffington Post. Though that was not his main reason for being there, he was of course also asked about Game of Thrones, something to which the actor must have grown accustomed. At least I hope he has.

“I don’t want Jaime to die,” the actor proclaimed when questioned about which character he would want to forcibly end Jaime’s story. “I want him to just slowly fade away. Just old age.” Would that it were, Nikolaj… That’s sadly not a common occurence on this show. If I am not mistaken (I may be), only Aemon can claim the honor of dying of old age (Anyone who can remind me in the comments if someone else did too gets a cookie.)

He wasn’t about to reveal who, if anyone, will be the one to kill Jaime —if he knows at all, that is. I would say spoilers are guarded with a paranoid fervor… but it may not be paranoia after all, considering the major leak late last year, which involved a rundown of much of what’s to come in season seven. It did not go unnoticed by the cast and crew, but that doesn’t mean it was a total disaster, as there are many fake spoilers as well:

“What’s interesting, though, is every year there are huge spoilers online where people find out real stuff and they will post it, and you go, ‘Oh my God, they just spoiled the whole season online!’ But then, because there’s 10,000 other spoilers out there, they’re not real. It just gets lost in the shuffle,” the actor surmised, rather optimistically.

That said, that doesn’t mean there is no danger, as Coster-Waldau also confirms the veracity of that particular leak: “So, it’s all out there by the way… if you can find it.”

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The actor also discussed the popular theory that Jaime will kill Cersei at some point, as he has done many times before —including quite recently. But this time the issue was focused on the heavily debated glare that Jaime shot at her sister at the end of last season, and if that is a clue of where their relationship may lead. Is Jaime seeing his worst nightmare in Cersei, a new mad monarch he must slay in spite of his honor?

“I was very into the scene. It’s interesting, though, how much you read into a look like that, because, it’s like, ‘Oh, clearly he’s going to leave her now. There’s no question. This is it. This is reminding him why he killed the Mad King. Now he’s going to go and kill Cersei. There’s no question about it.’ And it might happen, who knows? I mean, I know, but…” Well, Nikolaj has always been one to tease. Is Jaime going to kill her, abandon her, or both? Or neither, perhaps? That would certainly put a damper in my imagined climactic scenario in which Jaime and Brienne live happily ever after.

If you want to watch Nikolaj talk about his new film extensively, you can now head off to the almost thirty minutes of recorded interview. There is some other Game of Thrones-related tidbits as well, including this tease: “Winter is here. I hope [fans will be satisfied]. I know we did our best. Everyone worked their asses off.”

97 responses

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    1. Hold the gate!

      Didn’t Hoster Tully also die of old age? (off-screen)

      I want Jaime to live as well, but I’m not very optimistic.

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    2. I have always wondered: who’s job is it to sweep up all of the glutei that get worked off during big group efforts like this? And is there some sort of workers comp for the cheek-less workers, be it the Game of Thrones cast & production crew, or just some advertising firm?

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    3. Flayed Potatoes,

      He was old, but he had been suffering from a prolonged illness. So technically I’m not sure he died of old age 🙂 But at least it wasn’t a violent death – a rarity for GoT!

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    4. Luka Nieto:
      Wimsey,

      True, in the show. But I counted it anyway; we did see him dead, at least. But hell, you get a cookie too, for the technicality! Here you go!

      I’ve got cookies for everyone, folks.

      What are your thoughts on the writers strike Luka? Possible Season 7 delay?

        Quote  Reply

    5. I love interviews with Nikolaj, because he very clearly knows which buttons to press with the fans. No doubt it’ll go exactly opposite of what is expected. Or not. See this duck? ?

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    6. It sounds like Nikolaj would like Jaime to filch Bronn’s preferred death:

      Bronn & Jaime (5×4)
      (Talking about how they’d want to die):

      Jaime: What about you? What shit way would you choose?

      Bronn: In my own keep, drinking my own wine, watching my sons grovel for my fortune.

      Jaime: How disappointing. I thought you’d have something more exciting planned.

      Bronn: I’ve had an exciting life. I want my death to be boring.
      How do you want to go?

      Jaime: In the arms of the woman I love.

      Bronn: She want the same thing?

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    7. And I hope Tyrian gets to experience how he would like to die: at the age of 80, with a bellyfull of wine, and a girl’s ……

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    8. I don’t know about natural deaths or old-age deaths, but death by fire is the purest death of them all, so that should cover pretty much everyone in the Sept of Baelor, the surrounding districts, and much of Stannis Baratheon’s navy…

      Yea I know…lame…I just can’t think of any old age deaths that haven’t been covered and I want some cookies!

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    9. Jack Bauer 24,

      Season 7 of GOT will not be effected by the writer’s strike, if it happens. Season 7 was written and filmed and in the can. Now is time for all the post-production, computer and musical work. Besides D and D do most if not all of the writing and they are the producers, they might be writing season 8 at this moment.

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    10. Hoster Tully died of cancer. The clue is him describing the pain (in the books) as ‘crabs in my belly.’ The word for cancer has been derived from the word for crab since the ancient Greeks, who noted that surgically removed tumors often resembled crabs with branching legs in cross-section.

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    11. Pigeon:
      I love interviews with Nikolaj, because he very clearly knows which buttons to press with the fans. No doubt it’ll go exactly opposite of what is expected. Or not. See this duck?

      Yes, his name is Rolly Duckfield, innit?

      (Of course, as a Terry Pratchett fan, I should have reflexively replied, ‘What duck?’)

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    12. What about Old Nan? I don’t remember if we ever saw her again after the beginning (esp. the scenes at Bran’s bed).

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    13. Sam: Besides D and D do most if not all of the writing and they are the producers, they might be writing season 8 at this moment.

      They might well be adjusting their usual schedule to deliver as much of the season as possible before the strike. That happened for a few movies & series back in 2009.

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    14. I recently thought it would be cool if Arya killed Jaime offscreen at The Twins in 6×10 and took his face so she could travel to King’s Landing and kill Cersei in Season 7.

      But I know that won’t happen. Anyone else think it’s a cool idea or nah?

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    15. Sam,

      If they are writing scripts they are most definitely members of the WGA and will not be allowed to continue writing if the strike happens. Lots of writers are producers and vice versa. Most likely there are outlines for season 8 or even drafts of the episodes but until season 7 is complete the Producers are most likely busy with Post Production. The scripts continue to change all through filming. So until the last episode in a season the writers are still working. Without a doubt season 8 will be delayed if the WGA strikes. We waited over a year for season 7 hold onto your hats we could in for a long wait for 8. Last strike lasted 100 days. Puts everything on hold and thousands and thousands out of work. Once the strike is over it takes months to get things back up and running. That’s not taking into account the regular types of delays for weather, seasons, actor availability. I wish I had better news…bummer.

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    16. Ross:
      I recently thought it would be cool if Arya killed Jaime offscreen at The Twins in 6×10 and took his face so she could travel to King’s Landing and kill Cersei in Season 7.

      But I know that won’t happen. Anyone else think it’s a cool idea or nah?

      In the show, I don’t think so…but…
      Surely George is writing all that elaborate set-up for Arya in the books so that she gets to kill someone while wearing a different face, no? Otherwise what’s the point of all the Faceless training? The question is, who is it going to be (in the books)?

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    17. WallyFrench: She died by the Bolton troops and Ramsey when they sack Winterfell. Unless in the fighting one of the Ironborn killed her. Either way she died painfully.

      We don’t know that for certain. In the books, it is reported that the Boltons killed the Stark men at Winterfell, but that most of the women were spared and evacuated to the Dreadfort. There is some possibility that Old Nan still lives, though another actress would be needed to portray her in the show. And if the hypothesis is true that Hodor’s great height was a result of Young Nan’s affair with Ser Duncan the Tall, the character may yet have a story or two left to tell that the Starks (or someone) need to know.

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    18. Firannion,

      Thank you for this!

      I have The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer, but have not read it yet. Must get a new floor installed, bookshelves purchased, books unpacked, reading queue updated…

      But I digress.

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    19. George: In the show, I don’t think so…but…
      Surely George is writing all that elaborate set-up for Arya in the books so that she gets to kill someone while wearing a different face, no? Otherwise what’s the point of all the Faceless training? The question is, who is it going to be (in the books)?

      I for one hope that Arya is not sidetracked to KL in pursuit of Lannisters at this point. It would seem like a digression, even a regression. Her business is in the North now (perhaps stopping to pick up a wolf pack along the way).

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    20. Firannion,

      I disagree that Arya wanting to go stabby-stabby at the capital would be a character regression. Going through with it would be a digression, but merely planning to do so (especially as long as she is unaware of the resurgence of the Starks) would be very much in character without taking her story directly to perdition.

      I want her to go North as much as the next direwolf, but I would be sorely disappointed if we don’t see her visibly struggle between that choice and going south to kill Cersei. Family or revenge. I think Arya would in the end choose family (once she learns that’s a possibility since the battle of the bastards, of course), but I also believe it’d be out of character for her not to be tempted to do otherwise, which would mean going on a self-destructive quest for revenge.

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    21. Luka Nieto,

      Not only Cersei, but the Mountain as well. And given her very conflicted feelings about the Hound, there’s the part of me that thinks of the logic of Faceless Man Math: Jaqen asked her to give him three names in exchange for the three lives she had taken from the Many-Faced God; given that she does not yet know that Sandor is still alive, she might want to kill the Mountain not for herself any more, but for Sandor… in exchange for her own life, which he saved.

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    22. No One:
      Sam,

      If they are writing scripts they are most definitely members of the WGA and will not be allowed to continue writing if the strike happens. Lots of writers are producers and vice versa. Most likely there are outlines for season 8 or even drafts of the episodes but until season 7 is complete the Producers are most likely busy with Post Production. The scripts continue to change all through filming. So until the last episode in a season the writers are still working. Without a doubt season 8 will be delayed if the WGA strikes. We waited over a year for season 7 hold onto your hats we could in for a long wait for 8. Last strike lasted 100 days. Puts everything on hold and thousands and thousands out of work. Once the strike is over it takes months to get things back up and running. That’s not taking into account the regular types of delays for weather, seasons, actor availability. I wish I had better news…bummer.

      Benioff and Weiss will have to stop production work on Season 7 as well, so I wonder what will happen?

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    23. Jon: We need your sword to fight the white walkers.

      Jaime: Tough. I only use this sword to defend my queen.

      Jon: Then, I’m afraid I’ll have to fight you for it.

      Jaime draws his sword. He is lame compared to the man who has slain many Boltons, Wildings and wights. Jon finally wipes the smug, arrogant, privileged smile off the Kingslayer’s face. A million superficial fangirls weep. The rest of us rejoice.

      End of S8E1

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    24. Why the hell would anyone want to even look up those leaks and spoilers?? Are people that impatient these days that they can’t just wait for the show? There’s no way I would want to go into a season knowing all that’s going to happen.

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    25. Luka Nieto:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      Season seven is already written, so that’s out of the question. But season eight… who knows. I think it may not be affected, but I’m not sure.

      Season 7 is written, true, but production continues for months afterwards. It is my understanding that producers’ guilds have been known to support actors in their demands and may cease their work too. If this impacts GoT, I have no clue.

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    26. Nikolaj is so nice and funny, it’s a real pleasure to watch his interviews. So, Jaime goes to a psychologist 🙂 And suuuuuuure, nobody would hit on him 😉

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    27. Jack Bauer 24,

      I’m hoping Season 7 is far enough along it’s safe. As Producers they can still work and won’t be immediately laid off. If the strike happens their alter egos as writers cannot continue writing. Season 7 writing is finished since they are done filming. However if they go out in solidarity everything stops. It’s complicated for sure.

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    28. Mr Fixit: Season 7 is written, true, but production continues for months afterwards. It is my understanding that producers’ guilds have been known to support actors in their demands and may cease their work too. If this impacts GoT, I have no clue.

      Really? Another thread with angst ridden posts about the strike? So let me ease your mind Jack. Unless the Lord of light hurls a fiery comet towards Earth and wipes out mankind LIFE WILL GO ON. For all of us. Our existence is not bound to GoT, and if the premier is delayed, so be it. We can lament about it when it truly happens. For now, take a chill pill.

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    29. Corybn Stark,

      I like that ! Especially since Jaime was such a d-ck to Jon in S1e2, questioning Jon’s sword fighting abilities. Either way, I’d love to see Jaime encounter battle-hardened Jon and wonder “Who is that kickass sword fighter? … No. No. It can’t be…”

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    30. The Night King,

      I hear you. I don’t get it either. But if they really can’t wait, let them look up “leaks” and “spoilers”… Just as long as they don’t contaminate those of us here who want to enjoy S7 as and when it airs.
      ????

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    31. Jack Bauer 24,

      Maybe, just maybe the looming cloud of a WGA strike-related delay of S7 or S8 would have a (tinfoil) silver lining:

      It just might spur GRRM to sprint to the finish line if he thinks he can catch up to and pull ahead of the show.

      …Nah. Who am I kidding.

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    32. Corybn Stark,

      Mind if I fanfic your proposed Jon-Jaime scene a little bit ???
      ——
      Jon: We need your sword to fight the white walkers.

      Jaime: Tough. I only use this sword to defend my queen

      (Voice off-camera: “F-ck the Queen.” Sandor steps out from behind a hill).

      Sandor: Fancy sword you got there, Jaime F-cking Lannister. Where’d you get it?

      Jaime: Umm, er… My father Tywin reforged it from the Stark Valyrian steel ancestral sword that he stole after my incest bastard son had Ned decapitated.
      Wait … ‘the f-ck you doing here, Clegane?

      (Arya steps out)

      Arya: Say hello to my sworn shield, Not-Ser Sandor.

      Sandor (to Arya): Remember where the heart is?

      Arya: Sure do. (Skewers Jaime with Needle; picks up Jaime’s sword and hands it to Sandor)

      Sandor: “Widow’s Wail.” What stupid c-nt would name a sword like that?

      Arya: I know, right?

      Jon: They at least could’ve called it “Icicle.”
      (Sandor and Arya frown at him.)

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    33. They definitely do not have the season 8 scripts already. They don’t get their scripts until immediately before they begin filming, and filming won’t begin until September, I believe.

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    34. Sue the Fury:
      They definitely do not have the season 8 scripts already. They don’t get their scripts until immediately before they begin filming, and filming won’t begin until September, I believe.

      According to D&D, as of late March what they had was a 140-page treatment summary of the season, which they divided in three to flesh out; Dave Hill (episode 1) , Brian Cogman (episode 2), D&D (episodes 3-6)

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    35. Kay Fay:
      What is this one major spoiler they keep referring to? Can someone send me a link?

      What Nikolaj is referring to is a spoiler in Reddit that pretty much leaked the entirety of the plot for season 7, and believe me, I usually don’t mind spoilers, but I think you’re much better off not knowing…

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    36. “I want him to just slowly fade away. Just old age.”

      Aw, Nik, me too! Not that it’s very likely 🙁

      We should keep in mind that book!Jaime & book!Cersei are quite different from their show counterparts. Mostly to the detriment of Jaime, who’s mostly servicing her story. Show!Cersei is a better realized character than the books’ cartoon villain, which is a good thing, for the show as a whole.

      In the books, Cersei likes to say/think she and Jaime came into this world together, they’ll leave together. For her, they’re one person in two bodies. So, to Cersei, just two Cerseis. Jaime is just an extension of herself, the one with a cock. For Cersei, it’s inconceivable that Jaime would live on after she dies. It’s not a prophecy, just what Cersei thinks. It might be forshadowing, though.

      Jaime also thinks this come/leave together stuff a couple of times (with implied that it’s what Cersei’s always said) but he does see himself and Cersei as two separate persons. However misguided, Jaime has loved Cersei as a separate person, Cersei has only loved Cersei – and in the books, Cersei’s “love” of Jaime turns sour pretty quickly after he’s not her perfect knight but a cripple with a mind of his own. He even grows a beard contrary to her wishes! (After his return to KL, the length of Jaime’s beard is a direct indication of his growing mental distance from Cersei.)

      These and other subtleties don’t exist in the show because the stories have had to be simplified to make a watchable TV show, and I can live with that and enjoy the show. But, understandably, I and many other “Jaime fans” have been groaning since S4 when show!Jaime started doing the opposite he does in the books or just completely different things, in service to Cersei’s story. That’s why we’re so eager to see if Jaime will finally get near to where he is in the books as regards Cersei and everything else.

      I love the show, and understand why Jaime’s story has been so changed, but it is frustrating, lol!

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    37. Flayed Potatoes:
      Hold the gate!

      Didn’t Hoster Tully also die of old age? (off-screen)

      I want Jaime to live as well, but I’m not very optimistic.

      Hoster Tully? Maybe on the show.

      In the books it’s clear he dies of cancer or similar “before his time”. He’s only in his (late?) sixties or so.

      Oh, and I want Jaime to live, too, but I’m not very optimistic either.

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    38. Newbietothegame: Really? Another thread with angst ridden posts about the strike? So let me ease your mind Jack. Unless the Lord of light hurls a fiery comet towards Earth and wipes out mankind LIFE WILL GO ON. For all of us. Our existence is not bound to GoT, and if the premier is delayed, so be it. We can lament about it when it truly happens. For now, take a chill pill.

      ?!?

      !?!

      I mean really.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Ten Bears,

      Haha, great fanfic. I liked the Jon comment “Icicle”. Other than that, not so much. It reduces some of my favourites to vengeful dickheads. I want Arya and Sandor be better than that. (BTW, Jaime has never been on Arya’s list – why would you want her to kill him?)

      That S1 (E2?) scene between Jaime and Jon… There’s no such scene in the books but I think there must be a reason why it was included in the show. The obvious reason is that Jaime and Jon will meet again, and circumstances will have changed.

      One reason for the scene that I see is, arrogant, dickheaded, arseholeyly as Jaime was, he was trying to tell Jon something about joining a sworn brotherhood for life at 15 (or whatever age show!Jon was at the time. 17?) like he did. So when they meet -and they will – it won’t be about silly vengeance or oneupmanship to wipe supposed smug smiles off any faces but about more important things, like the real war in the north, and Jaime will have respect for the pup he met a few years ago, enough to fight for the cause under Jon’s command.

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    40. Pigeon,

      I really like Nikolaj’s interviews as well. He clearly likes his job as Jaime Lannister and he’s good at gently trolling the fandom.

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    41. talvikorppi,

      In that vein, while Jaime was (in his own assholish way) warning Jon because he himself had joined (or better stated, been heavily pressured into joining) a brotherhood with similar constraints to the Night’s Watch (no wife, no children, etc.), their respective “brotherhoods” have taken them on markedly different paths. Jaime, the elder son of the most powerful family in Westeros, has always dreamed of being a great knight, and the Kingsguard is theoretically the most élite of brotherhoods; yet, not only has he never been fulfilled in that role, he broke its cardinal rule and became the Kingslayer instead (albeit justifiably so). In sharp contrast, Jon, the bastard “son” of the ruling family in the North, belongs to the least élite of brotherhoods, where he is surrounded by terrible criminals as well as good men. And yet, through intelligence, decency, cunning, a deep humanism, and of course, some seriously kick-ass fighting skills, Jon has earned the singular respect and position of honor Jaime has always dreamed of. I do believe that “Jaime will have respect for the pup he met a few years ago, enough to fight for the cause under Jon’s command,” but I also believe Jaime will be sharp enough (and hopefully good-natured enough) to understand the profound irony of their respective positions.

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    42. I’ve always thought that part of Jaime’s closing “glare” was also due to the realization that his sister is now queen, therefore “my LAST kid has died!…WTF!!” He has no other way of knowing, having just arrived back in KL. Sure, there’s smoke and fire and everyone’s dead or dying, but Tommen should still be sitting on the throne, right?

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    43. Wolfish,

      Yes! Well said, Wolfish!

      OK, I’d like to add – and this is book stuff, apologies – that the young, idealistic Jaime (15 yrs at his institution to the KG) had all his youthful dreams and ideals of knighthood dashed. He soon learned that he wasn’t made KG on his merit (though he was very very good even at that age) but to spite his father, with whom the mad king had a long-standing, simmering quarrel. Then young Jaime saw his heroes, the KG knights like Barristan the Bold, the LC White Bull, and Jaime’s absolute hero Ser Arthur Dayne (who knighted Jaime) just following orders, disregarding knightly vows to serve a mad king and stand by as he committed atrocities. Talk about disillusionment.

      Jaime broke a later vow (KG) to keep an earlier one, the knightly one to protect the innocent when he killed the mad king. His pride never allowed him to “excuse” himself in this way, and everybody condemned him anyway and… So there! I will be the dishonourable arsehole you all think I am. Arrested development. Jaime at 32 is pretty much Jaime at 17. It’s only after his roadtrip with Brienne and losing his swordhand (which also held onto Cersei’s foot as they were born, which also held the sword that killed Aerys, which also pushed Bran out the window…) that he begins to grow up. The TV show obviously can’t get this deep into a secondary character, and that’s fine. That’s why I love getting into the books, learning so much more about the show characters.

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    44. talvikorppi,

      No apologies necessary for book stuff! These are all things that have occurred to me as well, especially in regards to Barristan (a character I love, but whose adherence to his vows to the Mad King is, imho, his sole, great moral failing). As I wrote in another post, I understand why so many things need to be omitted or changed from the books, but there are, nonetheless, quite a few things I’ve missed seeing onscreen.

      Comparing and contrasting characters is one of the things I really love to do, especially in a story like this with so many characters and their respective arcs. It would probably never occur to either man, but among the Kingsguard and former Kingsguard, Jaime and Sandor might have far more in common with each other than with any of the other KG. We do not yet know if it has consciously occurred to Jaime, but I think an enormous part of his attraction to Brienne (whether sexual or not) is not only because she’s everything Cersei isn’t, but she’s also everything Jaime has always wanted to be.

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    45. nipplesonabreastplate,

      Good point.

      The show has made Jaime more “fatherly” (especially as regards Myrcella), in the books he doesn’t care about Joffrey’s death, he’s just a squirt in Cersei’s cunt. He cares about Cersei’s sorrow but not the kid. TBF, Cersei never let him hold the kids or get in any way close to them (for obvious reasons). In the books Myrcella and Tommen are delighted to see their uncle Tyrion, obviously the favourite uncle. The other uncle, the great knight, is more distant.

      In the books, it’s only after Joffrey’s death (Myrcella is away in Dorne but still alive) that Jaime tries to be fatherly (disguising it as avuncular interest) to Tommen, but Cersei blocks it at every opportunity.

      But as to the show’s last look at Jaime. He wasn’t thinking about the kids, he was thinking about his sister. They have history and baggage.

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    46. talvikorppi,

      P.S.: I’m really hoping we get a Jaime/Bran reunion. I’m looking forward to how thorny it could be. Will Jaime tell Bran he had told Catelyn the truth before she set him free for the sake of the girls? Will he tell the Stark children how much their mother loved them, and how much he respected her despite her wanting him dead (as did Tyrion)? Will he consciously realize that Catelyn may have been, completely unbeknownst to her, the vehicle for his moral salvation via his (initially unwanted) association with Brienne? Will he be able to look that crippled boy in the eye and apologize?

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    47. Wolfish,

      Aah, yes! again.

      I think the point of the book series and the TV show is that every character has some good parts, some bad, but overall if you have more good parts… (as the Onion knight was saying)… Wait! Melisandre tells Davos and us “if half the onion is rotten, it’s a rotten onion.”

      I disagree with Mel. I just cut away the rotten part and eat the good part. Duh!

      I know many ASoIaF/GoT fans have a very black-and-white view (like Melisandre) but it’s not what GRRM or D&D are telling us.

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    48. Wolfish,

      Aah, wolfgirl, I really like what you’re writing.

      Like Barristan the Bold. Ser Grandfather, Dany’s chief advisor and the Lord Commander of her Queensguard (book only, dead in the show). Someone we all love. So, how honourable exactly is Barri, and why is he a better person than Jaime? Us readers are led to believe this, but when you consider the evidence…

      I like your comparison Jaime/the Hound – it hadn’t ocurred to me but I can see why you might make the comparison. Good food for thought.

      Finally, you’re absolutely right. Jaime loves Brienne because she’s all he ever wanted to be. And she’s nothing like Cersei

      GRRM won’t give us a happy ending of Brienne and Jaime retreating to Tarth and breeding dozens of amazing little fighters. No, they’ll both probably die, possibly before either knows of any love. Bugger.

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    49. talvikorppi:
      GRRM won’t give us a happy ending of Brienne and Jaime retreating to Tarth and breeding dozens of amazing little fighters. No, they’ll both probably die, possibly before either knows of any love. Bugger.

      But if Jaime’s stated wish to Bronn about where he’d like to die (“In the arms of the woman I love”) actually comes to fruition, it may be that they’ll both know that love before he (or both of them) expire. I have a feeling we’re in for all sorts of bittersweet endings.

      On a totally different note, I can’t fathom how one can be a ASoIaF/GoT fan and have black-and-white views of characters. However, I suppose that if one really is watching it just for “tits and dragons,” then those are the only shallow depths one will care to explore…

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    50. talvikorppi,

      I’ll blame the killing Jamie part of that fanfic on the proposed scene I was playing with: Jamie refusing to provide his VS sword to Jon to help fight the white walkers.

      (There… How’s that for shirking personal responsibility ?)

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    51. Wolfish,

      You wrote:
      ….We do not yet know if it has consciously occurred to Jaime, but I think an enormous part of his attraction to Brienne (whether sexual or not) is not only because she’s everything Cersei isn’t, but she’s also everything Jaime has always wanted to be..”
      _______________
      You’re right; I also see another aspect of the dichotomy between what Jaime aspires to be (represented by Brienne) and what he is reputed to be (sister-_____g oathbreaker).

      Someone (you?) mentioned recently under another post that in the books – though not in the show – when Jaime explained to Brienne why he came back to rescue her from the bear pit, he told her:

      “I dreamed of you.”

      I wish the show has included that line. Not because it’s a declaration of romantic interest (though it kind of is ?, at least in the real world), but because it reinforces the existence of an (apparently subconscious) internal struggle.

      Harkening back to GRRM’s adherence to William Faulkner’s belief that [paraphrasing] the only stories worth telling involve the human heart in conflict with itself, I’ve
      thought of Jaime’s Cersei vs. Brienne dichotomy as the not uncommon dilemma a man (or woman) confronts when he’s stuck in a toxic relationship with a skank, but somewhere deep down knows he belongs with someone else – an angel who brings out the best in him.
      It’s not always cut and dried. It’s not simply a matter of dumping the evil one and taking up with the good one. There’s lots of self-delusion, self-doubt and self-loathing in the equation, which is what I see evinced in Jaime’s character.

      (Didn’t he say to Cersei a few seasons ago that he couldn’t understand why the gods would make him “love such a hateful woman”, or something like that ???)

      Though this is oversimplifying it, to me Brienne brings out the “honorable” man Jaime knows he should be. Cersei brings out the lowlife he in him. He’s not the first fictional or real person to be torn like this. (Of course, most toxic girlfriends in real life don’t blow up churches, and most conflicted boyfriends don’t throw little kids out of windows.)

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    52. One other thing about Jaime & Cersei (at least in the show): I think Wimsey alluded to this –
      Cersei has kind of played Jaime like a yo-yo, alternately withholding her affections, and then lavishing them on him.

      If that’s intentional on the writers’ part, it’s another hallmark of what I call a “toxic” relationship. To me, that’s more realistic than Jaime traveling a “straight line” until reaching a point when he decides to wash his hands of Cersei. Blowing hot and cold for extended periods resembles an actual, real world messed up relationship.

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    53. Ten Bears:
      talvikorppi,

      I’ll blame the killing Jamie part of that fanfic on the proposed scene I was playing with: Jamie refusing to provide his VS sword to Jon to help fight the white walkers.

      (There… How’s that for shirking personal responsibility ?)

      Why would Jaime refuse to use his Valyrian steel sword for the common good… Oh, I get it, the TV show has made him a complete lapdog to Cersei. (He is not, in the books, but I know you haven’t read them.)

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    54. Firannion,

      Hoster Tully died of cancer. The clue is him describing the pain (in the books) as ‘crabs in my belly.’ The word for cancer has been derived from the word for crab since the ancient Greeks, who noted that surgically removed tumors often resembled crabs with branching legs in cross-section.

      Wow, I had no idea – thats for that little tidbit of information (I am a nerd for word origins..)

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    55. ash:
      Firannion,

      Wow, I had no idea – thats for that little tidbit of information (I am a nerd for word origins..)

      That’s why the constellation /Zodiac sign of the crab is named Cancer.

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    56. Wolfish:
      talvikorppi,

      P.S.: I’m really hoping we get a Jaime/Bran reunion. I’m looking forward to how thorny it could be. Will Jaime tell Bran he had told Catelyn the truth before she set him free for the sake of the girls? Will he tell the Stark children how much their mother loved them, and how much he respected her despite her wanting him dead (as did Tyrion)? Will he consciously realize that Catelyn may have been, completely unbeknownst to her, the vehicle for his moral salvation via his (initially unwanted) association with Brienne? Will he be able to look that crippled boy in the eye and apologize?

      Another enlightening analysis, Wolfish!

      Will Bran forgive Jaime, or curse him? Bran may learn that the fall from the tower was necessary for him to become the three-eyed raven.

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    57. Firannion: That’s why the constellation /Zodiac sign of the crab is named Cancer.

      Truly why I hate having been born in July – I’m either associated with a deadly disease everyone hates, or an STD.

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    58. Lonely Cat,

      Well, the other possibility is that eventually, Bran’s flashbacks to falling from the tower will include the 2-3 second before the actual fall he’s seen thus far in his visions.

      I mean, now he’s got 3ER Super-Vision. He’s been seeing glimpses of events all over the world over several centuries, including the murders of his family members.

      Once he figures out how to punch in the right coordinates and select the date and time for his tree tripping, it shouldn’t be too difficult to get the full picture – if he doesn’t remember it on his own in the meantime.

      What would be a nice twist is if Jaime confesses – and Bran tells him it’s cool: it was predestined to happen so it’s not really Jaime’s fault. One way or another, Bran had to fall in order to fulfill his destiny, just like Wylis’s brain had to be fried to create Hodor.

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    59. Wolfish,

      Supplementing my 4/28/17, 9:25 PM and 9:46 PM replies:

      About the “Angel vs. Skank” conflict confronting Jaime, here are two of the excerpts I was thinking of…

      •. In S4e3, Jaime, frustrated with Cersei (who’s withholding sex AND pressuring him to kill Tyrion), tells her:

      “You’re a hateful woman. Why have the gods made me love a hateful woman?”

      (I think that little speech preceded the controversial rape/not rape scene.)

      •. In S6e8, Brienne (appealing to Jaime to end the seige of Riverrun without bloodshed) reminds him:

      “You’re a knight, Ser Jaime. I know there is honor in you. I’ve seen it myself.”

      ————————
      To me, these illustrate how Cersei and Brienne bring out in Jaime the worst and the best, respectively. Deep down, he’s got to know this, whether or not he’s ready to admit it to himself and act on it.

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    60. talvikorppi,

      To: talvikorppi

      I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear: My “fanfic” was just my playful attempt to construct a lighthearted variation on thr facetious, satirical “scene” composed by Corybn Stark in his/her 4/28/27, 5:36 am entry.
      My 4/28/17, 10:50 am “variation” of his/her satirical scene just cut and pasted dialog from unrelated Arya and Sandor episodes to insert them into the facetious Jon vs. Jaime confrontation.
      From your 4/28/17, 4:22 pm response*, I feared that you thought I was seriously predicting that Arya would kill Jaime.
      In my 4/28/17, 8:08 pm reply to you I tried to clarify that I was just playing around. However, from your 4/28/17, 10:14 pm follow-up it looks like I failed to adequately explain that I was just fooling around – and playing off the imaginary Jaime-Jon confrontation in Coryben Stark’s initial post at 5:36 am

      *Your 4/28/17, 4:22 pm response stated, in pertinent part:

      “Haha, great fanfic. I liked the Jon comment “Icicle”. Other than that, not so much. It reduces some of my favourites to vengeful dickheads. I want Arya and Sandor be better than that. (BTW, Jaime has never been on Arya’s list – why would you want her to kill him ?)”

      ____________________
      I hope I didn’t cause you to waste too much time rebutting propositions I never intended to make. I’ll be more careful in the future.

      Coincidentally, I recently came across an apparent Internet “shorthand” designation to accompany a sarcastic or facetious message, so readers will have no doubt that a statement isn’t meant to be taken seriously. I’ll retrieve that shorthand designation and see if it’s in common usage. I’m still learning what all the internet acronyms and abbreviations mean. (For example. I thought “ETA” meant “estimated time of arrival”; now I know (?) it’s also used as a postscript to signify an edit or correction of preceding text).

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    61. Ten Bears:
      Is “/S” generally accepted and understood to be an abbreviation for“sarcasm” ?

      I wouldn’t recognize it as such. But then again, I’m old, out-of-touch and a Neo-Luddite.

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    62. Ten Bears,

      Great points.

      As for the “rape/not rape scene,” this is one of the departures from the books that utterly confounds me. It’s definitely not a rape scene in the books, and just seemed so totally out of character for Jaime (book or show), I could never figure out why D&D wrote it the way they did. The same goes for Dany’s wedding night, which was handled far more sensitively in the book (Khal Drogo didn’t rape her, neither did he just mount her like a mare), rendering their unfolding love far more believable in the text than on the series.

      Just don’t get me going on Dorne…

        Quote  Reply

    63. Ten Bears,

      Yeah, thats ‘edited to add’. I am still learning acronyms Re the satire emoji, the closest Ive seen is on Andy Borowitz post : he just starts with ‘Not News’

        Quote  Reply

    64. Wolfish,

      It’s definitely not a rape scene in the books, and just seemed so totally out of character for Jaime (book or show), I could never figure out why D&D wrote it the way they did. The same goes for Dany’s wedding night, which was handled far more sensitively in the book (Khal Drogo didn’t rape her, neither did he just mount her like a mare), rendering their unfolding love far more believable in the text than on the series.

      Yes, I was really shocked by how they did those scenes, esp Dany’s wedding night. All I could think of was that HBO wanted to start their standard sex shots as soon as possible to get ratings. Really just wrong in so many ways (and yeah, I don’t want to mention Dorne either…)

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    65. ash,

      The strange thing is, they can do “standard sex scenes” tastefully if they want to. I thought Jon and Ygritte in the cave was well done; Margaery’s futile attempt to get a rise out of Renly was okay too. And at the risk of mentioning Dorne (*cacophony of groans*), I kind of liked Tyene’s exhibitionist seduction of Bronn.

      It’s when they resort to forcible sex that they get in trouble, particularly when there’s no reason for it. It was icky enough that Jaime chose the floor next to his monster son’s corpse for his coital overture. (Yeah, that’ll get a woman in the mood.). They really didn’t have to make it a rape. And don’t get me started again on the Sansa debacle.

      I have noticed, however, that they must’ve responded to criticism about “sexposition” scenes, because there have not been any for a while. I’d rather see naked people cavorting in the background during soliloquys than a nonconsensual sex act front and center.

      But once again, I’m not bashing the show. For every “misfire” or miscalculation, there are a hundred grand slams.

        Quote  Reply

    66. GinkgoBiloba, actually as I recall Jon Arryn died in mysterious circumstances of unknown causes soon after discovering that Cersei’s children are not fathered by Robert Baratheon.

      Varys suspects he died of the rare Tears of Lys poison, and later on (on the show and in the books) Lysa Arryn confirms that she poisoned him at Littlefinger’s behest.

        Quote  Reply

    67. ash,

      Catching up on old articles but I just have to reply as I am so glad I’m not the only one. I saw seasons 1 and 2 before starting the books, and for me the Dany-Drogo “love story” just didn’t flow at all after starting with that rape. When I read the book all I could think was “this makes so much more sense!” The wedding night was going to happen no matter what and Dana didn’t really have a choice, but that bit of sensitivity and communication from Drogo, and Dany showing that hint of her inner strength and bravery to “choose” what must happen rather than be a victim, that little bit of agency made it possible to blossom into a loving partnership.
      And it’s still creepy that they didn’t seem to realize they created a rape scene with Jamie and Cersei. A complicated private relationship matter, yes – Cersei has been pretty abusive to him – but still it was portrayed as a rape, and I thought it put an unnecessary and over-the-top black mark on Jaime’s character.

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    68. Ross,

      Arya will kill Cersei, while wearing Jamie’s face.
      Prophecies in GoT have a habit of being misunderstood.
      Arya will die – maybe not this season but she will die (although my main theory is that she will die but warg into her direwolf – at least in the books it is heavily hinted that Arya will die and there is a lot of talk about her becoming a wolf ).

        Quote  Reply

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