Natalie Dormer on her final days with Game of Thrones

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The late Queen Margaery, Natalie Dormer, has a new interview over at MakingGameofThrones that is a worthwhile read, and we’ve snagged a few of the highlights for your enjoyment here. The actress discusses her final season on the show, and the finale in which we saw Margaery realize fatally too late that she’d been outplayed by Cersei.

“They gave her the privileged position of being the only person to realize what’s happening, a moment of vindication that just summed up her personality. She was always a couple of steps ahead of everyone else, even to her last moment. I’m very grateful, because Margaery Tyrell was never a victim – even in her last moment they allowed her to not be,” Dormer tells MGoT, and adds,It’s also very poignant that she’s standing there holding Loras, because her love and her closeness with her sibling has always been in the background. For Finn [Jones, who plays Loras] and I to go out together, literally holding on to each other, was a beautiful moment.”

The interview delves Margaery’s line to Tommen, “I’ve had lots of time to think about how good I was at seeming good?” Was Margaery being genuine in any way when she spoke the line or was it just another ploy? Dormer acknowledges the truth buried in her character’s deception.

I think she’s articulating out loud something she’s always known about herself,” she says. “If any of us were forced to sit in a dark cell on our own, we would do some soul searching. But I’ve always held firm that Margaery’s heart is true – I don’t think she has a dark spirit. She’s giving a narrative to Tommen that helps convert him at that moment. Maybe she was able to mix a bit of the truth in there – that’s the most effective kind of lying isn’t it?”

Her final moments on set were not in the fiery blast at the sept but while filming a much less violent, though still tense, scene. The actress says, “My actual last day was with Diana Rigg [Olenna], where I hand her the bit of paper with the rose drawing. It was very fitting: the actor hugging the actor goodbye, and the character hugging the character. Dan and David were both there in order to give me the proper send-off. It was an emotional day.”

She didn’t leave empty-handed though. “They gave me Margaery’s wedding crown, with the roses interwoven around the Baratheon antlers which sits on my bookshelf and will be loved from now until the rest of my days.” A very nice parting gift, indeed!

Natalie Dormer, always a queen.

93 responses

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    1. I read the other day she asked to be written off in season 5 as she had another project and wanted to move on. So I guess they convinced her to do an extra season. Does make me wonder about book Margaery though.

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    2. She’s so beautiful and talented. Loved her on Tudors too. She will be missed.

      Also can’t wait for Jon’s real name to be ‘Jon’ just to see everyone’s disappointment (like with all the Arya theories) xD Even though I really like Jaehaerys.

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    3. In the “strong women” category, they killed the best and truest of them. Natalie Dormer has been a favourite of mine since The Tudors, and Margaery was such an intelligent, fun, and clever character. Her love for Loras and her family was admirable. Shame.

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    4. Pigeon:
      In the “strong women” category, they killed the best and truest of them. Natalie Dormer has been a favourite of mine since The Tudors, and Margaery was such an intelligent, fun, and clever character. Her love for Loras and her family was admirable. Shame.

      I see what you did there.

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    5. She was a class act and played Margaery so well! She is smart and talented and will do well after GoT! I thought she was exceptional this season! Glad she went out as she would have wanted to! Much Luck to Natalie Dormer!

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    6. They gave her Margeary’s crown as a souvenir … so cool… they aren’t so mean in real life then. Emilia also said they gave really cool gifts to the people leaving the show. Leslie said they gave her Ygrittee’s crossbow …

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    7. Rhaenys Stark,

      Haha I think it’s just a bit of fun speculation not like the cries of #badwriting in the arya case.I doubt he will call himself anything other than Jon anyway.But looking at all the theories Jahaerys is my favourite too

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    8. They weren’t mean, she asked to be taken out because she had other projects she wanted to do.

      I so liked her in Hunger Games and thought she was excellent here. One of my favorite scenes is with Sansa in the garden. She’s giving Sansa all sorts of womenly advice and she says ‘Did your mother teacher you about that?” and Margery pauses a second, takes her elbow,smiles and says ‘yes of course it was my mother’. Too bad she’s not going to be around the help Sansa now, she would have been a great mentor, both with private advice and street smart lessons

      Thanks for bringing that character to life, Natalie. Looking forward to seeing you in many more productions!!

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    9. ash:
      They weren’t mean, she asked to be taken out because she had other projects she wanted to do.

      I so liked her in Hunger Games and thought she was excellent here.One of my favorite scenes is with Sansa in the garden. She’s giving Sansa all sorts of womenly advice and she says ‘Did your mother teacher you about that?” and Margery pauses a second, takes her elbow,smiles and says ‘yes of course it was my mother’.Too bad she’s not going to be around the help Sansa now, she would have been a great mentor, both with private advice and street smart lessons

      Thanks for bringing that character to life, Natalie. Looking forward to seeing you in many more productions!!

      This isn’t a Curtain Call for Dormer yet…

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    10. Thought she was great as Margarey. Her scene in S3 where she makes the mistake calling Cersei “sister” is one of my favorites. I wonder if she hadn’t requested to be released from the show if they would’ve killed her off.

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    11. While i loved the last episode, i think killing margaery was pure invention and i believe that the book margaery will die in a much better and fitting way than this one. Also, this is one of the worst written season of GoT i have ever seen and i feel like this article from the inverser reflects much of what i thought about the writing this season: https://www.inverse.com/article/17718-game-of-thrones-season-6-worst-george-r-r-martin-predictable-controversy

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    12. Jenny,

      I’ve watched the scene more than 30 times so far and I think she makes a ‘g’ sound. But I hear a ‘-ys’ as well… I guess we’ll find out next year. If everyone starts speculating this early, we’re all gonna go crazy till April 😛

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    13. LostNorthern,

      I honestly can’t take these articles seriously. First of all, D&D (and GRRM) have spent years creating foreshadowing and natural progressions in storylines. You should understand where a lot of things are going, if the story and characters are logical and built in a believable way. Constant “twists” are overrated and it’s bad storytelling.

      Also, people make wrong and terrible predictions and then they claim it’s “predictable” afterward, or they bathe in spoilers and then claim the season was predictable. Honestly if you’re someone who frequents spoiler posts and articles, yeah…of course you could predict things. That’s how spoilers work!

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    14. I wonder what the crown was made of.

      If I was her I’d get a real one made of gold or silver. I mean, if you’ve got a decent excuse to have a crown in your possession then it may as well be a real one.

      “Oh, that? Yeah, that’s the crown I wore on Game of Thrones. They gave it to me as a souvenir. I don’t wear it while I’m watching TV in my pyjamas or while I’m doing the vacuuming at all. Honest, I don’t.”

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    15. Rhaenys Stark,

      I feel like we are going crazy already.The season just ended people are bound to speculate but we will chill for a while and then start the same arguments all over again when filming stuff and spoilers come our way lol

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    16. Rhaenys Stark,

      Shock value for the sake of shock value is bad writing which is what you apparently want. The reason so many plot points are “predictable” are because D&D and GRRM have logical character arcs and progression so when things happen it makes sense. I could probably name 15-20 things that will probably happen in TWOW and if these do happen it doesn’t mean it’s bad writing, it means that GRRM’s story is following a logical progression. ASOIAF is a not a jigsaw puzzle.

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    17. LostNorthern,

      I agree the writing isn’t perfect … but it has never been perfect IMO. It doesn’t help that there are only 10 hours per season with so many characters and they lost time with bad jokes scenes… before there were unnecessary sex scenes. But there are so many great moments, good acting, cinematography and visual effects … The show offers much more than the rest of TV shows. It’s the only show I watch religiously and look for news and spoilers… I believe the storyline will get more predictable next season and the shock and real heartbreak will come with the endgame in Season 8. It’s in Season 8 when the unexpected death of the main characters will happen.

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    18. LostNorthern:
      i think killing margaery was pure invention

      Yeah, this is all fiction; that is how it works.

      Yeah, it might be different in the books, but I thought it was brilliantly done in the show anyway, so I’m happy even if it is better in the books. Margaery, of course, is a much smaller character in the books anyway, but Natalie Dormer has really shone in her expanded role, and I’m glad D&D expanded it.

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    19. She took a nothing, blank canvas character and created one of the most compelling characters in the entire show.

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    20. LostNorthern,

      We are in the third act of the story of course it will be more predictable than the first act.If it’s not then the characters and story makes no sense.The only thing I’m not sure of is the ending and that is not because nobody has ever thought of it or I haven’t read in the internet but because there are several ways it can go and I don’t know which one is right.If you have paid attention to the story and it’s themes then you should be able to see where it’s going.I don’t watch the show to be surprised I watch the show to see a complex thought out story

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    21. You are so correct! I think some people forget it’s all make believe. I find all this “fanfic” talk so offensive, not just to D & D but everyone that works so hard on the show to make a tangible product for everyone to enjoy.

      Knight of the Walkers: Yeah, this is all fiction; that is how it works.

      Yeah, it might be different in the books, but I thought it was brilliantly done in the show anyway, so I’m happy even if it is better in the books. Margaery, of course, is a much smaller character in the books anyway, but Natalie Dormer has really shone in her expanded role, and I’m glad D&D expanded it.

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    22. Have loved Dormer since The Tudors. You can imagine my excitement when she was cast as Margaery. And she certainly delivered. While I’d prepared myself for her death, I wish she’d left the story as more than just collateral.

      But what really got me livid was them skipping Olenna getting the news of her family’s demise.

      Seriously? It’s not enough you just wipe out an entire bloodline like that — you don’t even give the whole thing any poignancy. Instead you cut directly to The Queen of Thorns dishing out snarky remarks as usual and taking on a minor role in a vengeance plot. Absolute rubbish.

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    23. Seriously? What would that possibly add to anything? And what part of that excellent show would you cut to give us a five minute scene that does nothing to advance the plot? I don’t see this as a minor role in the plot at all, and suspect that Elaria and Olenna will be successful, in fact I suspect they will be the ones to kill off Cersei rather than Jamie.

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    24. Sue the Fury,

      I will get on my soapbox for a bit and still say that SOME of the writing has suffered. I will defend some of the predictability of the payoffs with you – that can’t be helped, it’s endgame time. The wildfire was WAY too foreshadowed IMHO – but whoopie-do – not everyone thought so.

      My biggest gripe would be the many scenes were nearly identical to scenes from previous seasons – and it was painful. D&D called them “paying tribute” and so on… but really? Some examples –

      Dany’s rebirth in the flames – too close. It needed different music, different directing – just something/anything to make it not seem so awfully repetitive.

      Scene after scene with Arya getting her ass kicked by the waif. Couldn’t they write anything about poisons, stealth, cunning… actual Assassin stuff? If all she needed to learn was how to physically fight people – Arya could have stayed with the Hound.

      Dany’s speech on the Dragon. It was, again, the exact same speech that Drogo gave in season 1. It wasn’t paying homage, it was just unimaginative and uninspiring, even for the benefit of the Dothraki.

      The weigh-in before the Battle of the Bastards – the exact same lines that Robb and Jamie discussed after Jamie was captured. I guess they were drawing similarities between Jamie and Jon… but… arghhh…

      It felt like D&D was… afraid to write their own stuff? Didn’t have enough time? Now – I loathed the Tyrion beetle speech that they wrote, so some of their stuff I do hate. But… they’ve done lots of good stuff in the past – I liked Kat’s “Love a Motherless Child”, Everything done with Ross and the Honeypot, etc…

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    25. I loved her performance especially this season. Best moments overall the arm to arm Cersei one, The Ser Pounce and the jewel in the crown in the last episode. I got all the tension and anxiety of this very scene just from her performance. Powerful!

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    26. orange:
      I read the other day she asked to be written off in season 5 as she had another project and wanted to move on. So I guess they convinced her to do an extra season. Does make me wonder about book Margaery though.

      Book Margaery wasn’t much like the TV Margaery. I didn’t like book Margaery too much – she was too wishy-washy. I think Nathalie is such a good actress she made the TV version much better. It’s too bad she’s gone – I’m glad her grandmother is at least around a bit longer.

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    27. orange,

      I’m guessing book margery and Loras are not going to make it. I thought that at end of books, she would be killed by faith and Loras would die of his wounds.

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    28. Jenny: then start the same arguments all over again when filming stuff and spoilers come our way lol

      LOL, spoken like a true veteran of Game of Thrones Off-season at WotW. Yes, that’s the way it happens. Last year was the first season I actually stayed in touch with a site throughout the off-season. I was skeptical at first that there would be anything that could be of merit or hold my interest for all those months – boy, was I wrong. This site made that whole “is Jon actually dead or isn’t he?” debacle bearable, and made the months between seasons seem to go much faster. There was much excellent, thought-provoking writing from our posters, too. Finding out just how much our fans were willing to do on the filming spots to get info was a hilarity unto itself. There are a lot of clever, sneaky people out there.

      Um, more on topic, I loved that scene between Marge and Olenna, where Marge made those huge eyes and said to her grandma “GO HOME.” At least she saved Olenna, even if she couldn’t save herself. Quite unexpected, I thought for sure she, if anyone, would make it out. Oh well, Natalie is obviously not without worthwhile projects to keep her busy, but she will be missed.

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    29. The Tyrell’s added much needed shades of grey to a story which is unfortunately becoming very black and white, good verses evil.

      Cersei has cemented herself as lead antagonist, whilst Jon, Dany and the Starks are the clear heroes. Where is the middle ground now? I can only hope LF works his magic on Sansa to bring some complexity to the northern story. Otherwise, the show could use another Stark death.

      If George has said this is a bitter sweet story, then Season 6 was a little too sweet and not bitter enough. I can only hope D&D know this and are giving audiences what they want (Roose, Ramsey, Walder dead) before taking it back from them (Stark, Dani or Tyrions death). That would be true GoT style.

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    30. LostNorthern,

      You mean, in your opinion (not shared by most people) it’s the worst-written season.

      IMO, overall, it was the best written and and best directed season of GoT. Tied with season 4, 1 and 3 for me (can never decide among those three).

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    31. ladywolfsbane,

      I respect your opinion, but the beetle speech was GoT at its best and most literary (where D&D’s Beckett and Joyce scholarship shines through). It was a moment of delving deeper into the nihilism that seems to pervade this world, followed by a pullback into the world of, simply put, brotherly affection. And a rare moment of death being contemplated (a topic which few stories, and even fewer TV shows, explore). And the meta quality of that dialogue is great too (is there a purpose to all this untimely death?)

      It was a scene of beautiful contrasts. In that context, I fear our opinions regarding this show’s quality will always be miles apart.

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    32. ArgonathofBraavos:
      ladywolfsbane,

      I respect your opinion, but the beetle speech was GoT at its best and most literary (where D&D’s Beckett and Joyce scholarship shines through). It was a moment of delving deeper into the nihilism that seems to pervade this world, followed by a pullback into the world of, simply put, brotherly affection. And a rare moment of death being contemplated (a topic which few stories, and even fewer TV shows, explore). And the meta quality of that dialogue is great too (is there a purpose to all this untimely death?)

      It was a scene of beautiful contrasts. In that context, I fear our opinions regarding this show’s quality will always be miles apart.

      Agreed. Absolutely loved it. Simply brilliant.

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    33. I was surprised Margeary met her demise when the Sept was destroyed. I thought she was one character who would continue on in the GoT series.

      Natalie Dormer played her part well and I wish her all the best of luck in the future.

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    34. ladywolfsbane,

      The writing lacked creativity, plain and simple. It was more traditional story telling as opposed to the dynamic story telling we’ve come accustomed to on GoT. More pandering to the audience, less respect for its intelligence. It was predictable, anti-climactic, and lacking suspense.

      Have to admit, I wasn’t worried when the show passed the books because I had a lot of faith in D & D, but after this season I’ve lost respect for them as writers. I still maintain they’re capable of much better.

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    35. ladywolfsbane,

      The weigh-in before the Battle of the Bastards – the exact same lines that Robb and Jamie discussed after Jamie was captured. I guess they were drawing similarities between Jamie and Jon… but… arghhh…

      That’s simply not true. The only resemblance is both Jon and Jaime demanding one-on-one fight. The situation, circumstances, intention and, yes, the very lines are completely different.

      It felt like D&D was… afraid to write their own stuff?

      But they just gave us a season full of their own stuff: Theon-Sansa, Sansa-Brienne, Sansa-Jon, Dany-Tyrion… Hell, they even gave us show-only “ships” ; )

      Back on topic, Natalie absolutely killed it since her first appearance till his very last (sniff) one. A double slam dunk decision from the showrunners: making a foreground book character into a main player and choosing an actress who could make that decision pay off in spades.

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    36. Dornishman: Cersei has cemented herself as lead antagonist, whilst Jon, Dany and the Starks are the clear heroes. Where is the middle ground now? I can only hope LF works his magic on Sansa to bring some complexity to the northern story. Otherwise, the show could use another Stark death.

      Agree that Cersei is the current wearer of the evil crown (with LF as second in command, Euron as the up and coming evil prince, and the Sand Snakes as court jesters), but I think there’s still a lot of gray area.

      Jaime – could go either way.
      Varys – do we really know his end-game motivation?
      Sansa – I think will be good Sansa but could very well become jealous evil Sansa
      Dany – I’m not so convinced that her sanity will remain intact til the end.
      Arya – Love her but she may be on her way to becoming a full-fledged sociopath.
      The Priestesses (Kinvara and Mel) – currently seem to be on the good side but that’s unstable.

      The only people I see as legit “good guys” are:

      Jon
      Tyrion
      Davos
      Yara/Theon
      Sam/Gilly
      Brienne
      Tormund
      Edd

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    37. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      You make some good points about characters who are still “grey”, Jaime, Varys and Mel in particular, though the way the show is written at the moment, the audience is supposed to cheer for the Starks so unless there is a major shift in portrayal of Sansa and Arya next season, I simply cannot see the masses getting off #teamstark.

      I would love Yara to betray Dany, I’m not fully convinced by her pact with Dany to give up Ironborn identity and culture in order to gain autonomy of her kingdom. I’m hoping Olenna Tyrell is given something meaningful to do to drive the story in a less predictable direction too.

      I agree with LatrineDiggerBrian with pandering to the audience this past season. As I mentioned previously though, we know D&D are talented writers and can only hope they will pull a fast one on us and deliver a complex, morally vague final season/s. This good vs evil/revenge angle that was way too prevalent throughout season 6 simply bores me.

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    38. Mag,
      It’s in Season 8 when the unexpected death of the main characters will happen.

      I don’t think I’ll be able to handle this 🙁

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    39. LostNorthern,

      “book margaery will die in a much better and fitting way than this one.”

      Well, I don’t know man, Dormer’s performance was so incredible maybe we are forgetting that Margaery in the books is basically a non-entity apart from what is described of her and our POVs think of her. I think if GRRM decides to kill her as well, he won’t give her any big scene.

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    40. LatrineDiggerBrian:
      ladywolfsbane,
      It was more traditional story telling as opposed to the dynamic story telling we’ve come accustomed to on GoT. More pandering to the audience, less respect for its intelligence. It was predictable, anti-climactic, and lacking suspense.

      Dornishman:
      The Tyrell’s added much needed shades of grey to a story which is unfortunately becoming very black and white, good verses evil.

      Cersei has cemented herself as lead antagonist, whilst Jon, Dany and the Starks are the clear heroes. Where is the middle ground now? I can only hope LF works his magic on Sansa to bring some complexity to the northern story. Otherwise, the show could use another Stark death.

      This, a million times this. But then that’s just why I want Sansa to get as far away from Jon as possible. The northern storyline seems to deal in absolutes and doesn’t allow room for complex characterization and moral ambiguity.

      If she stays there, her character can only either acquiesce in the same fantasy cliche or perish.

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    41. LostNorthern:
      While i loved the last episode, i think killing margaery was pure invention and i believe that the book margaery will die in a much better and fitting way than this one. Also, this is one of the worst written season of GoT i have ever seenand i feel like this article from the inverser reflects much of what i thought about the writing this season:https://www.inverse.com/article/17718-game-of-thrones-season-6-worst-george-r-r-martin-predictable-controversy

      I did find myself in agreement with some of the things in the article. I was surprised by how many people were willing to proclaim Battle of the Bastards as the best episode in show, when for me it seemed like such a black and white affair.

      The Battle of the Bastards was visually stunning. It was also a clean cut battle between Good Guys and Bad Guys. Jon was our stalwart hero; Ramsay our smirking mustache-twirling villain. On another show, that wouldn’t be a big deal, but it’s an immense shift for GoT. Season 2’s “Blackwater” was spectacular not just for its visual effects but for its moral ambiguity. Both sides had people worth rooting for — Davos on one; Tyrion on another — and the outcome wasn’t easy to predict.

      On the one hand, D&D are very much on top of their game streamlining the story. On the other hand, when left to come up with story on their own, D&D tend to be a bit fan-servicey, and steer the storytelling too close to Hollywood blockbuster for my liking.

      Also, there were a bit too many moments requiring suspension of disbelief (e.g., Sandsnakes appearing on Trystane’s ship, then teleporting to Dorne, or Arya suddenly appearing to assassinate Walder).

      However, I think the endgame will be just fine. I believe the episode most indicative of things to come was probably The Door, which (I think everyone agrees) was based on a twist planned by GRRM in the very beginning, and told by D&D based on the information they got from the author. This is very similar to what we will get, when they give us the end as planned by GRRM long time ago, in the next 10-15 episodes.

      Also, why has GRRM not delivered the final books in time? Now that the pieces are set for the final act, I think we also see just how much GRRM has allowed his own story to spin out of control with endless sidelining.

      Who are most likely to be key players in the endgame? Starks, Lannisters, Targaryens plus other characters introduced in book one, like Varys, Littlefinger, The Hound and the Mountain.

      What’s the point of introducing characters like Quentyn Martell in book five? How many months did GRRM spend writing his chapters?

      It does very much seem like his “gardening” approach to storytelling has let him loose the sight of the story he set out to tell.

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    42. Natalie was superb, a complex though decent person in a sea of sharks. Long live the Queen!

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    43. If anyone thinks Margeary will have a ”better” death, I thought this one was pretty perfect, he is lying to themselves.

      In the books she is a non-entity. It is Natalie and the writers who gave her a bigger role.

      I truly think we will have a meltdown in the book fandom when WOW comes out and people realize the story is turning more into fantasy and there will be more fan-service, it is already hinted, and the story will truly turn more into ”good vs evil”.

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    44. JoffreyTrueKing,

      This. People who hate the writers and the show, now put all their hopes into Martin, if they dislike something, it is automatically ”fan-fiction” and ”shitty” D&D writing. It will be painful when reality will hit them over the head.

      ArgonathofBraavos,

      This. I loved that speech and all my friends did. I kinda ignored this type of forums back then And even random internet comments I stumbled on were praising it. I was beyond suprised to see people hating on it.

      GeekFurious,

      I know you hate how the writing has evolved and how the story went. I will not argue this with you there’s no point.

      But you can not honestly argue that Margeary is a better character in the books. You simply can’t. She doesn’t even exist there, that is how much of non-entity she is.

      If you wan’t to complain about something, complain that they made her a bigger character then she truly is.

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    45. Well done Ms Dormer on bringing your character to life – and death.

      As for the people who snark – I think it’s best just to let them go their own sweet way nd ignore them as much as possible – unless they belittle people who like the show. I find it’s best to like what I like and dislike what I dislike (and there have been some things I haven’t been too keen on).

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    46. Mihnea:

      I truly think we will have a meltdown in the book fandom when WOW comes out and people realize the story is turning more into fantasy and there will be more fan-service, it is already hinted, and the story will truly turn more into ”good vs evil”.

      Does “good vs evil” appeal to you though?

      The result is always the same in these scenarios, “good” will triumph.

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    47. GeekFurious,

      D&D punked her?? Oh please! Maergery is a minor character in Martin’s world. D&D expanded her role in the show partly for plotting purposes (a worthy foe for Cersei) and because they realized they had something special in Natalie Dormer. If Martin now expands Margaery’s role in the books it will be because she was such a memorable character on the show, not because that was what he originally intended.

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    48. That’s brilliant they gave her a crown.. ot.. talking of crowns me and my daughter noticed after discussing toj scene that lyannas effergy looks like she is wearing a crown. At first glance looks like a hood of some kind but definitely could be a crown. Just a thought hiding in plain sight etc

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    49. When people complain about good guys winning I cannot roll my eyes hard enough.If you read the books or saw the show and didn’t think the red wedding would be avenged or the Starks won’t get back Winterfell then I don’t know what have you been reading or watching.Season 5 was the darkest hour before the dawn,only bad things happened it was so bleak.So the moment it was done I knew season 6 would be the comeback season because it makes sense storywise.The story needs it and this is not a nihilstic story.The audience can’t tolerate two season fives in a row.It becomes boring and too much,you loose any reason for watching.Even then there were plenty of good characters that died in this season.Plus I’m sure there will be enough death at the end to satisfy the doom and gloomers but in no way it will end with the bad guys winning.

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    50. …But to be fair English isn’t my native language,

      Yeah, there are certain posters that you can just skip right past because they say the exact same thing over and over and over again which basically comes down to: D&D suck; Martin is a god. The show is far from perfect and people have made reasoned arguments here about legitimate criticisms. But that is not what these ‘the show sucks and always will’ people do. No, they have already decided they hate everything about the show long before any episode airs so there is absolutely no reason to read anything they say. Makes me wish this site used a different comments format that had an ‘ignore’ option.

      Glad you mentioned Ozzyman. I refer people to his episode 10 review where he kind of addresses the ‘predictable’ complaints. As he says, the TV show is what is known as professional storytelling. You set up plots and characters and then you have a payoff.

      Hey, you know what isn’t professional storytelling? Things like this:

      * introducing new characters late in the story who have will have no impact on the main story but spending tons of time on them anyway

      * sending your actual main characters off on side plots to spin their wheels until you can figure out how to reintroduce them into the main plot.

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    51. Dornishman,

      Yes. I have no problem with that. I saw it coming a long, long time ago. ADWD confirmed it to me. The first act was more ”grey”, with the politics and all. But from then the fantasy elements and story took the center stage and you will not have ”grey” storytelling with ice zombies…
      And as the show proved, there is nothing complex about the WW. They will not negotiate, they will not even talk.

      Same with Cersei. Hell the show even tried to make her more human and Lena does a fantastic job at making her look believable. In the books she is just a caricature of a character. I still can’t believe Martin wrote her like that and said ”yup this is a real person”….

      The masters are a caricature in the books.
      Euron is a

      valiryan armor, blue lipped, eye-patched, wearing pirate, who rapes, tortures, drinks magic kool-aid, killed 3 of his brothers and is a pedophile who raped 2 other little brothers…

      Ramsay is even worse in the books…

      And same with Walder Frey. Nothing ”grey” there.

      It is plain for all to see that the story is turning more into ”good vs evil” books and show.

      The ”good guys” will win no matter how ”bittersweet” the ending will be.
      The WW will be beaten. There is no way around this. Ramsey and WF will die. Euron will die….etc
      The only question is at what price.

      Here I always believed Dany and her dragons will die in the end. In a way to ”balance” the world. Her Dragons returned right when the WW did. She and them will go out together.

      And I’m at around 50/50 on Jon. But with him King now, I’m a bit more convinced he’ll live.

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    52. Dornishman,

      …though the way the show is written at the moment, the audience is supposed to cheer for the Starks so unless there is a major shift in portrayal of Sansa and Arya next season, I simply cannot see the masses getting off #teamstark.

      I’m sorry, but at what point in this story were we not supposed to cheer for the Starks?

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    53. Jenny,

      You’re right.

      The show set out its stall from episode one. We’re rooting for the Starks and the Lannisters are the antagonists. That’s how it began and that’s how it was inevitably going to end up.

      All the morally grey areas were explored in the intervening time.

      There’s still some moral ambiguity to some of the characters, but we are where we were pretty much bound to end up from the start.

      Elsewhere Daenerys and the White Walkers exist as wildcards ready to collide in Westeros and render all of the politics and in-fighting moot.

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    54. Natalie was incredible as Margaery. Her take on her character’s arc this season is very interesting, so thanks for sharing it. Even though the last episode was very impressive, I just couldn’t really enjoy it because I was so upset at Margaery’s death. She is already deeply missed.

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    55. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Exactly we are going to finish with the characters that we started.There was a time for the story to expand and this is the time for the story to contract.This doesn’t mean that what we experienced in the middle doesn’t matter it was neccessary to get us where we are and understand the protagonists better.From the first chapter and the first scene we are supposed to root for the Starks.We can see the tragedy with Arya becoming a killing machine and understand that revenge leaves you hollow but that doesn’t mean that we stop rooting for her.On the other hand even though we understand why Cersei has become what she is now she still needs to be taken down.I think most people like Tyrion and Jaime though.

      The books and show told us everything since the prologue.Against Ice Zombies humanity needs to be united and that’s the end goal.

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    56. I’m kinda disappointed. I know she had a plan to rule properly and I wish they would have played it out so that we could see her scheming at work. Ahh well just another twist to be expected by now.

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    57. Jenny,

      The good guys can win, but it doesn’t have to play out so predictably. Little suspense. It’s not asking for much.

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    58. Homplomplomo,

      “On the one hand, D&D are very much on top of their game streamlining the story. On the other hand, when left to come up with story on their own, D&D tend to be a bit fan-servicey, and steer the storytelling too close to Hollywood blockbuster for my liking.”

      It’s very true. It’s been such a brilliant adaptation, they’ve made so many great choices and have added so many great scenes. They’ve known exactly what to cut. They’ve really made the show its own thing and it’s been great.

      That’s why it’s so hard for me to wrap my head around this season. But maybe the writing was on the wall, because in the past when they’ve gone in their own direction, sometimes the story telling has been more linear / anti-climactic. I think the first sign of this was Jon’s assault on the mutineers in season 4. It was alright, but it stuck out to me like a sore thumb as predictable filler. I really didn’t mind Dorne, but the ending was a bit anti-climactic.

      I still maintain that they are very talented writers and something else was at play. I noticed in the very first episode that something was off. Maybe the criticism of last season got to them? Maybe they did a lot of late rewriting as a result? It just seemed like a lot less care was taken in the writing, and there was sort of a “fuck it, we have to wrap this thing up” approach.

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    59. LatrineDiggerBrian,

      As others have stated on this site, when you scour through the spoilers and know exactly what is going to happen then of course the episode is predictable to you. Yes, the show set up the use of the wildfire by having Tyrion mention the stash hidden around Kings Landing and by having it show up in Bran’s vision and by the conversation between Qyburn and Cersei about the ‘rumors’. So when we saw the green liquid in episode 10 we knew exactly what it was and what Cersei intended to do. But people who were not spoiled did not know that it was actually going to explode or who was going to be killed so they were surprised and shocked.

      And the thing is, if the show had given no reminders at all this season about the wildfire the whiners would have just complained about how it was poor writing to have no setup.

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    60. Lord of Coffee,

      I didn’t scour through spoilers though, I don’t know why you assume that. I didn’t even watch the trailers before the season. During the season, I don’t even watch the next episode trailers and when the “previously on GoT” comes on before the episode, I mute it and look away. I’m about as anti spoiler as you can get, and I managed to not look up book spoilers for seasons 3, 4, 5. So that’s not the issue here, I can assure you. I just simply didn’t think the story telling and writing was on par with the first 5 seasons.

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    61. LatrineDiggerBrian,

      Sorry, I shouldn’t have directed that comment to you when I have no idea whether you were spoiled or not and now I know you weren’t.

      I just think they set up the wildfire throughout the season specifically so it wouldn’t come out of nowhere and leave people confused as to what it was and what it could do. But that setup did not make what actually happened predictable and most people were surprised by what took place.

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    62. Lord of Coffee,

      I’m actually not complaining about that as much as I am other stuff. It was fine, they might have knocked people over the head a tad too much, but I get that they had to remind people that there was still wild fire hidden beneath the city.

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    63. For me, the story this season wasn’t too predictable apart from several times when I was spoiled, usually be people who enjoy purposely spoiling others.
      One of the few things bringing my enthusiasm down was reading constant complaints about how the show totally sucks now. Even though it didn’t go in line with my personal impressions, it still made me think, perhaps I’m just too dumb or unsophisticated to see how bad it is? But when I recollect this season now, there were so many emotional moments coming to my mind, there were memorable scenes in every episode.
      I suggest to those who are unhappy with the show to take a pause, as you might be just tired of it after such a long run and you need to come back later with fresh interest. And maybe try to appreciate the story for what it is without holding to your own vision of what it supposed to be like – it unfolds as it was planned and we’re not affecting the story. That way you’ll get a more rewarding watching experience. Otherwise we could still be unsatisfied with Ned’s decision, Bran surviving the fall, lack of grey areas in Hotpie’s character, or many other things just as well.
      As for Margaery, her death felt heart-breaking and haunted me for the rest of the episode, and I think they’ve played it perfectly. Sad to see Natalie Dormer go, she was really good on the show.
      Wish everyone a good year off-season! 🙂

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    64. Dornishman,

      It’s not about whether or not “good vs. evil” appeals to the audience. It’s the simple fact that during peacetime, there are far more shades of grey. But as GoT nears an endgame which involves an existential threat (the White Walkers), the conflict becomes less about whose house is on top, and more about banding together in order to survive. And in that sense, the sides are very likely to become starker. But good and evil becoming more starkly defined (no pun intended) as the White Walkers press on is not unrealistic, as you claim. In fact, it is realistic, as through history, enemies/ nations with difficult relationships have often banded together to fight forces that threaten them all (e.g. the allies vs. the axis powers in WWII, where good and evil are rather starkly defined).

      So it’s not about the story getting more and more unrealistic/ fantastical. It’s about the mummer’s show of petty politics getting less and less reasonable, and less and less important, as the threats become more existential. And I am certainly looking forward to that.

      Shoehorning in out-of-character betrayals from Sansa would not only be inconsistent with her character arc, but also nonsensical in terms of the story’s progression. Jon is the only family Sansa has, and Sansa knows that a fight against an ancient evil is coming. Betraying Jon at this point, due to personal ambitions, does not make much sense in this period of coming apocalyptic war. It would, therefore, be poor writing if Sansa betrays Jon. Forced drama for its own sake. She’s apologized for not trusting him before, and I think that’s that.

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    65. LatrineDiggerBrian,

      My husband hasn’t read the books and avoids all spoilers, trailers etc and the sept scene completely took him by surprise. He has enjoyed this series as much as I have and I have read the books and knew about the spoilers. I think we forget that the majority of the game of thrones audience is generally unsullied.

      Incidentally I am off work ill today and just watched episodes 7 to 10 back to back. It’s great to watch a chunk of the story in one go to get a better feel of the series as a whole.

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    66. ArgonathofBraavos:

      Shoehorning in out-of-character betrayals from Sansa would not only be inconsistent with her character arc, but also nonsensical in terms of the story’s progression. Jon is the only family Sansa has, and Sansa knows that a fight against an ancient evil is coming. Betraying Jon at this point, due to personal ambitions, does not make much sense in this period of coming apocalyptic war. It would, therefore, be poor writing if Sansa betrays Jon. Forced drama for its own sake. She’s apologized for not trusting him before, and I think that’s that.

      Well said. “Forced drama” has been my reaction to the on-going Sansa betrayal discussions although I could never state it as well you have. With only 13 episodes left, the last thing needed is forced drama of any sort.

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    67. I don’t understand the mass appeal to Natalie Dormer’s Margaery, other than beebs and “rule of cool” since she’s manipulating the 2 boy kings. She’s just as smug and power hungry as Cersei, and she paid the ultimate price (by latching on to the HS, who underestimated Cersei) desperately holding on to being THE Queen.

      I don’t like that she was “Two steps ahead of everyone, including Cersei, and powerless to stop her fate” in her final moments. Her character deserved a brutal, swift and unexpected (by her) ending due to her own scheming, just so as many other characters have left the series – because their schemes failed them. You could argue it was her scheme to ally with the HS that did her and her family in, but it’s not direct enough to satisfy me IMO.

      I expect Margaery in the book to meet such a direct fate (perhaps a beheading despite the benign charges against her), although not because she is Dormer smug, but for a completely different reason: she’s actually in the book an innocent young queen, and the Asoiaf world is not kind to innocent young girls.

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    68. Stargaryen,

      I thought that I was the only one who understood that… Natalie asked (while filming s5) to be released from filming earlier (during s6) not be killed off

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