More Myranda in Game of Thrones season five

Charlotte HopeIt looks like we’ll be seeing more of Ramsay’s favorite companion in the next season of Game of Thrones! According to the CV of actress Charlotte Hope, she will be appearing in season 5.

Last seen in “The Laws of Gods and Men” during Yara Greyjoy’s aborted assault on the Dreadfort, Myranda was oddly unaccounted for during the rest of season four. Her absence led some fans to speculate that her character might’ve even been killed offscreen (with an explanation forthcoming), or in a cut scene.

With the confirmation of Hope’s return, the speculation can be put to rest.

Of course, Ramsay doesn’t have the healthiest interactions with women, so I’m not sure his connection with Myranda will last much longer, or what her next appearance on the show will be like. The character is an original creation not found in the books, and so her future in Game of Thrones is entirely unknown.

Thanks to reader Carne for the find!

197 responses

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    1. I hope it’s not

      Farya, if she is, we won’t get to watch that disturbing scene after the wedding…you know what I’m talking about

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    2. No offence to the actress but I couldn’t care less about her character. She seems to be covering for the lack of Ramsay’s boys so will prob

      just get offed at the Battle of Winterfell if not before by Mance. Her as Arya would be a stretch to say the least

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    3. Lord Hugh Ryvenholt,

      Why not? Just because Ramsay and Myranda get along now, doesn’t mean it has to be the case for ever. Like Fury said in the post, Ramsay doesn’t have the healthiest interactions with women. I could absolutely see him turn on her in their wedding night.

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    4. I’ve learned to not trust the directors thing. A lot of times they just list all the directors, and then they wind up in one episode. But yeah she may be in a lot of eps.

      I used to think

      FArya wasn’t possible with her, she’s much too old, but Maisie looks so adult these days, the show might be just ignore the age thing.

      Reminder: You HAVE to use spoiler code in this post.

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    5. Urgh they cut cool characters but keep this one (eg euron). If we dont get the north storyline in all its glory there will be hell to pay especially since theres no reason to cut some of the intriguing character or change the storyline

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    6. I don’t get the “They keep her but cut (character who has nothing to do with this storyline) logic.” I can understand if she was supplanting someone who should be in that storyline instead but she has nothing to do with Euron or Arianne. They need minor characters to interact with the major ones.

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    7. TheTouchOfFrost,
      Have to agree with your statement about the character.

      The only real reason I can think of that she couldn’t be FA is that pretty much everyone in the Bolton household knows who Myranda is so it’ll rely on a lot of people being quite. Though I’m sure they could just gloss over the fact.

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    8. I got a feeling they’re going to skip the fArya plot entirely somehow. And they’ll just find other motivations for the characters to do the things they end up doing, as they often do.

      She’s an alright actress but this role makes me cringe so hard for so many reasons. Hopefully this season will improve for her.

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    9. Ironborn,

      Not saying it would be Pulitzer worthy,

      but how is making Myranda FArya bad story telling? They would save on casting that way and they would give the story line to a character that the viewers already know. There is no way to tell at this point if that would make good or bad storytelling, but it certainly would be efficient storytelling and that’s what a show like GoT needs sometimes.

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    10. I don’t get the hate this character gets. Is it because she’s a woman? Because Ramsay has a bunch of psycho friends in the books. Also, she has a fantastic ass and the show is kind enough to give us a peak at it every once in a while.

      My guess/hope:

      She continues to be the same bundle of joy as before and becomes one of the murder victims in Winterfell alongside a Frey and some unnamed guards.

      By the by, is there any word on Lame Lothar or Black Walder returning in season 5?

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    11. I have little doubt that the speculation that

      Myranda will stand in for fArya

      will persist until we hear some casting news that proves otherwise (or, if nothing leaks, until Season 5 starts). But personally, I continue to think that it’s extremely unlikely.

      As Sue the Fury notes, the age discrepancy isn’t necessarily prohibitive – that’s something that the show could work around. But given that Myranda has been established as a cruel sadist who is utterly under Ramsay’s thrall, the show would have to do a lot of work to establish
      a) why Ramsay would turn on her so violently after they got married
      b) how Myranda would go from being confident and capable to someone utterly broken, terrified, and in need of rescue, and
      c) why Theon would feel obligated to save her after she helped castrate him. (I’ve seen some people suggest that his redemption would be even more powerful if he forgives and saves a woman who tormented him so terribly. But personally, I think that’s a stretch).

      Why would the writers create all that extra work for themselves?

      Especially when they could simply cast a new girl and start from scratch? As has been repeatedly stressed, there’s no reason that fArya has to be Jeyne Poole – audiences will understand her suffering and Theon’s compulsion to help her even if she isn’t someone that he used to know.
      Given that fArya’s only purpose in this story that we know of so far is to service Theon’s “redemption” arc, I see no need to overly complicate her backstory. She should be an innocent girl (Jeyne Poole or not) or she shouldn’t be cast at all. If there’s no fArya, Theon can earn his “redemption” some other way.

      I think Myranda will continue to serve the same role that she has on the show so far – as Ramsay’s lackey and occasional lover.

      He may turn on her eventually, or, as jentario suggests, maybe she’ll join the Freys as one of Mance’s murder victims. Either way, I don’t believe that she’ll become fArya.

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    12. Abyss,

      Because she’s an absolute psycho and there’s no way Theon would want to save her given her involvement in his neutering (nor would it be viewed as redemption)?

      Basically, D&D would need to work magic for it not to end up being lame

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    13. Ugh!

      TheTouchOfFrost,
      Agree. I have absolutely no interest in this character and don’t need precious screen time wasted on her. We get it – we know how Ramsay treats women. Had enough of Myranda last year.

      WeirwoodTreeHugger,
      I’m getting nervous, too. I understand that her appearance has little to do with Arianne or Euron or Manderly. I don’t care for the character and am not interested in seeing more time devoted to her story line. There are many other characters that I would rather watch.

      Ironborn,

      Agree. Turning her into fArya would be ridiculous. I’m sure that she will just be Ramsay’s plaything. We will get another unnecessary sex scene (and perhaps some taunting of Reek) before she is turned over to his dogs.

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    14. I know lots of people hate the character because “she’s not in the books” or “because Ramsay can’t get along with a girl”. But I like her scenes last season, and Charlotte’s sexy body is always welcome on my TV 😀

      As for the character itself

      I think she will be one of the victims in Winterfell, since there’s no little Walder, she will be the “named” character to kick the bucket, Ramsay won’t take the death of his partner to lightly

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    15. jentario,

      As i said, I don’t think it would be Pulitzer worthy,

      but seeing a woman about to get brutally raped (and possibly killed afterwards) by Ramsay and/or himself is a good enough reason for Theon to save her. What ever she she did, nobody deserves that. And I personally would see it as even more of a redemption (if he really can be redeemed is up for debate) for Theon if he saves someone, who has done horrible things to him (and others). It would show that he is still able to see the good or at least humanity in people, regardless what he has done and was done to him.

      – When I think about it, maybe that would be Pulitzer worthy if done right.. ;D

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    16. Dirk of Diggler:

      Not that again. ..

      Seriously, how is it not obvious that this is the worst idea ever?

      Myranda is the show’s equivalent of Yellow Dick, Damon Dance for Me and other Ramsay minions in the book. She doesn’t seem any less evil than Ramsay. What’s the difference? Just that she’s a woman?

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    17. This could be one of the great love stories throughout Westeros history….once the Boltons take the iron throne, of course. Ramsay and Myranda make such a beautiful, progressive couple.

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    18. jentario,

      I know, what I mean,

      is that she will be an already known character, with a name and background. Yellow Dick was barely a character, with no other background than being one of the “bastard’s boys”. In the books no one other than Ramsay gives a fuck about him, but when little Walder dies chaos ensues within Winterfell.

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    19. I was totally convinced that Ramsay had killed her and that the showrunners had cut the scene moved by the ridiculous backlash from Jaime’s “rape” scene. There is a piece of footage that was not shown regardless, so we’ll have to wait for the BR.

      I agree with the majority’s (jentario et al) projection of S05 Myranda. She’s the Bellatrix to Ramsay’s Voldemort. 😀 The only difference is that they fuck onscreen rather than implicitly.

      OTOH, as much as there exists extreme book purism and show-bashing, i hope show-defenders cut people some slack and stop trying to pretend that all the changes D&D make to the source material are “completely necessary for TV” and not their own whims and personal preferences. Keeping Myranda but cutting Arianne & the (rumored) rest? C’mon! The use of the term fan-fic by the unimpressed ones doesn’t seem a stretch anymore.

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    20. Fjordgazer,

      Myranda has nothing to do with cutting Arianne though. And I think many people criticize the show for doing such major cuts in season 5 (Greyjoys, Arianne, Griffs and so on) who aren’t book purists- me included.

      Problem is, it’s hard not to get into “fan fiction” when you’re running out of seasons and running out of “author fiction”.

      It’s a problem that GRRM is on a no-writing diet. Sadly, he isn’t getting any thinner either.

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    21. Fjordgazer: The use of the term fan-fic by the unimpressed ones doesn’t seem a stretch anymore.

      I’m not going into the whole debate if “all the changes D&D make to the source material are “completely necessary” “, mostly because there isn’t a debate, really. I don’t think even the hardest defenders of the show truly believe that’s the case.
      But about the whole fan-fic thing. Yes, you could say that D&D write fan fiction. Simply because they are fans of the books and the show is there fiction of them. – But since they are doing it officially, it’s called an adaptation, that’s all there is to it. 😉

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    22. I would greatly enjoy Miranda being

      taken out in the chaos of Winterfell. For her to be FArya, it would cheapen the redemption of Theon… why would we root for him to save her? Even if it gets established that Miranda is damaged as bad as Theon… he needs to snap out of his abuse for the sake of someone else. Someone he can see as worth risking his greatest fear on earth, Ramsey’s displeasure. That would NOT be one of his torturers/rapists

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    23. Hey! Leave Charlotte Hope alone people, she is one of the ‘M’ trinity of GoT; Melisandre, Missandei and Myranda. You cannot go wrong with those three actresses and their characters. Myranda could even become D&D’s Myranda for Sansa, sent by Roose to spy on the Vale, hence the same name as the book character.
      I have been wondering though if perhaps she is a Bolton or some daughter of an important Lord, after all Ramsay does call her M’lady and treats her more as family, albeit a sick twisted family.
      There is a purpose behind D&D’s creation of the character, you guys and gals just aren’t privy to it, is all.

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    24. jentario:

      Myranda has nothing to do with cutting Arianne though.

      I agree with you in most points, since we don’t know how much “substance” GRRM has really told them about the plot, other than major events and destinations, and D&D have to go through with what they got. But as to keeping the likes of Myranda and cutting the likes of Arianne: most people who defend this kind of changes argue that they need to save money on casting.

      IF that’s the case, i don’t know how much extra money they’d spend on casting an (presumably with more cache) actress for Arianne and KEEPING HER CLOTHES ON (which i’m sure most Arianne fans wouldn’t mind a hell lot) compared to having Charlotte Hope with all her steamy sex scenes.

      Of course, there could be better motives, which we as fans ignore for the most part.

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    25. Dark Sister,

      Someone being in Belfast isn’t a guarantee of filming, not anymore. They film other TV shows and movies in the area these days, largely thanks to GoT. Paul Kaye was in town last year, that caused some confusion.

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    26. Abyss:

      Yes, sophisticated fan-fiction is a label that most people wouldn’t mind. Except for those who jump at conclusions about book characters’ fates according to show-canon. But no label is perfect, after all 🙂

      Relatively speaking, GoT is much less fan-fiction than most TV adaptations, everyone should agree on that.

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    27. tyjon:
      …There is a purpose behind D&D’s creation of the character, you guys and gals just aren’t privy to it, is all.

      If Myranda’s “purpose” on GoT is more than T&A, I’ll be surprised.

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    28. I don’t care for the character much at all, but there’s just something about this girl that tickles my fancy. Absolutely no question I wouldn’t mind seeing her on the screen again.

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    29. The CV doesn’t work for me, which directors did it say? (Though like many CVs before shooting is over it could well be wrong).

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    30. Myranda is basically the only named minion the Boltons have now — that and fanservice nudity are the most likely reasons for her to be back.

      As others have already said, her subbing for Fake Arya is highly unlikely. It would be far more difficult than just using the actual Fake Arya from the books, and I’d question how much sympathy you could ever get the audience to feel for her, which would kind of defeat the purpose.

      I like Charlotte as an actress, though.

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    31. Fjordgazer,

      IF that’s the case, i don’t know how much extra money they’d spend on casting an (presumably with more cache) actress for Arianne and KEEPING HER CLOTHES ON (which i’m sure most Arianne fans wouldn’t mind a hell lot) compared to having Charlotte Hope with all her steamy sex scenes.

      I may be misinterpreting what you’re saying here, but if you’re suggesting that if Arianne was cast, people wouldn’t mind if she kept her clothes on, I’d have to disagree. I can see it, now…

      “OMG, they cast Arianne, and she doesn’t even get naked? They have other characters that don’t even exist in the books getting naked all the time, but one of the characters known for her sexuality in the books keeps her clothes on? D&D are such hacks…”

      or something along those lines.

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    32. Nymeria Warrior Queen:

      I expected this angle to be brought up…

      But ask those people now: would you rather have Arianne with no huge dark nipples on sight, or no Arianne at all?

      The answer is easy. Only “nudity sharks” with little interest in the story would stop watching because of that.

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    33. So, if you take the directing credits as accurate (which is highly variable, but let’s run with it), the range of episodes she can appear in would be 5.03-5.06 and 5.09-5.10.

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    34. Sam Corbus,

      Sam Corbus,

      Someone’s cat clearly shit in their soup today

      Sue the Fury,

      So she appears in 3/4, 5/6 and 9/10… Alright then.

      Doesn’t leave much room for her to get shanked, unless she’s a body in episode 9. Which I doubt. She definitely seems to be in enough episodes to be fake Arya though 🙂 … (not happening EVER!)… (until it does)…

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    35. Fjordgazer: I expected that someone would say this…

      But ask those people now: would you rather have Arianne with no huge dark nipples on sight, or no Arianne at all?

      The answer is easy. Only “nudity sharks” with little interest in the story would stop watching because of that.

      You have more faith in some of the fans than I do, then. I think the complaining would be deafening, and not just from the “nudity sharks.”

      btw – I don’t mean so much the fans on this site, but some of the others I used to read seemed to be peopled with a lot of folks who relish complaining and bashing D&D above almost anything else. Yes, D&D have made some bad calls, or at least calls with which I don’t agree, but overall I think they’ve done an extraordinary job.

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    36. Everything depends on the ending of Theon.

      I imagine he will offer his life to Bran and the Old Gods in exchange of the life of others (spoiler). In this case he could be the one killing myranda as a redemption. And fArya could disappear completely. The northern lords could grumply stay with Boltons even without fArya. And jon could be stabbed just for the wildling…

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    37. Awesome. She was a fairly interesting character, is a talented actress and she’s very hot (I’m being superficial I know). Glad to have her back, although I’m still inclined to think they cut her deathscene from season 4.

      Annara Snow: Damon Dance for Me

      Still miss this dude, probably the coolest name for a minor character in the entire ASOIAF universe (yes, better than Dickon Manwoody)

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    38. tyjon,

      I beg to differ. I think they went incredibly wrong with Missandei!

      Myranda should remain a background character. If they’re trying to streamline (as people keep saying) don’t expand on a character that really isn’t needed. The time would be a lot better spent elsewhere.

      Like others have said have her killed in Winterfell by Mance and his Spearwives as a device to add that bit more venom/madness to Ramsay.

      Also, I’m not sure finding someone hot or wanting to see them naked is a particularly significant reason for including them! There’s plenty of porn out there for that guys. GoT should be all about the story and characters.

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    39. Nymeria Warrior Queen: You have more faith in some of the fans than I do, then.I think the complaining would be deafening, and not just from the “nudity sharks.”

      Would it be more defeaning than the sex-negative feminists arguing back about “objectification” and so forth? This case has been more prevalent than the one you present, thus far.

      Anyway, i’d love it if this debate actually went to happen, because it’d mean that we get Arianne. Sigh…

      Veltigar:

      It still doesn’t beat Shitmouth 😀

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    40. I can’t help but notice the difference in reactions to the idea of Will Tudor as Olyvar returning compared to the idea of Myranda coming back. People get so angry about Myranda, and yet there’s less changing around in Ramsay’s story than say, Loras’s, since Ramsay did have lackies (they just weren’t hot ladies).

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    41. Veltigar,
      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      These.

      She is a fanservice character in many ways, but it’s not implausible that Ramsay would have a bedwarmer. From there it follows that she’d also be a nasty piece of work, since, you know, he picked her!

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    42. Sue the Fury,

      For me she kind of feels out of place in the show(Manic Psycho Dream Girl), but I guess a lot of people are slowly getting scared that she might actually be shoehorned into Jeyne Poole’s role.

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    43. Sue the Fury,

      It’s pure speculation on my part but maybe it’s because so many people feel like she’s just there for the T&A and therefore doesn’t help to move along (insofar as we know at this point) the story lines that people care about. I’m not fond of the character either tbh.

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    44. Sue the Fury,

      Oh I think he’s pointless too! Honestly didn’t see the need for him at all and I think he changed (not on his own obviously) Loras’ character a lot. Wasn’t a massive fan of Ros but she did help to get to know characters when the viewer was very fresh to them.

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    45. Sue the Fury,

      This. Olyvar will probably be the show version of the Blue Bard and Myranda is a composite character herself, a mix of a bunch of Bolton henchmen. I say better her than some ugly goons!

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    46. Fjordgazer,

      Yes, D&D have made some bad calls, or at least calls with which I don’t agree, but overall I think they’ve done an extraordinary job.

      Totally agree with this. I remember before the first season started I was crossing my fingers that it would be a reasonably adequate adaptation that was worth watching. I have been very happy how much my hopes have been realized. Doesn’t mean that I sometimes dislike what they decide, but all in all, its a great show.

      Whatever Miranda’s role, pls pls pls not another hunting dog chase……

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    47. Sue the Fury:
      I can’t help but notice the difference in reactions to the idea of Will Tudor as Olyvar returning compared to the idea of Myranda coming back. People get so angry about Myranda, and yet there’s less changing around in Ramsay’s story than say, Loras’s, since Ramsay did have lackies (they just weren’t hot ladies).

      There were plenty of complaints about Olyvar from what I recall. Especially from the “no homo” crowd.

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    48. Sue the Fury,

      I can only speak for myself but I have no interest in Olyvar either. (I must have missed the announcement that he was returning). Will we see him as the brothel manager again or as Loras’ love interest?

      FWIW, I am not happy with Loras’ portrayal in the show. (I may have mentioned it in my post in Good/Bad Changes thread.) Even though he was not a major character in the books, I thought that he was well drawn: a top swordsman, devoted to his family and a bit headstrong. In the show, he exchanges witty comments with Jaime and discusses clothes with Sansa. His love for Renly has also been ignored: “When the sun has set, no candle can replace it.”

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    49. Fjordgazer: I agree with you in most points, since we don’t know how much “substance” GRRM has really told them about the plot, other than major events and destinations, and D&D have to go through with what they got. But as to keeping the likes of Myranda and cutting the likes of Arianne: most people who defend this kind of changes argue that they need to save money on casting.

      IF that’s the case, i don’t know how much extra money they’d spend on casting an (presumably with more cache) actress for Arianne and KEEPING HER CLOTHES ON (which i’m sure most Arianne fans wouldn’t mind a hell lot) compared to having Charlotte Hope with all her steamy sex scenes.

      Of course, there could be better motives, which we as fans ignore for the most part.

      Arianne isn’t cut to save money on casting and that’s not a reason to do it. Yes, an actress for a role of her size would cost some money, but Myranda’s not getting paid jack, so there’s no trade-off here.

      The Myranda for Arianne swap doesn’t make sense in that:

      1) Putting Arianne in the story will require a decent amount of time, even given the Dorne storyline is going to occur.

      2) Myranda has not, and is not likely to, have any screen time that is incremental to the series — i.e. screentime that is really not all about Theon or Ramsay.

      It’s that simple. Myranda doesn’t “cost” much screentime. They’ve decided to cut a ton of the sideplots, so it looks like the Iron Islands are gone, Sam in Oldtown is gone, probably much of Brienne in the Riverlands is gone, Griff may be gone … and Dorne seems to be vastly cut. I’m not sure Arianne is the character I would have cut… but they apparently picked the Sand Snakes and Trystane over Arianne and Quentyn. Myranda dones’t factor.

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    50. Fjordgazer: Would it be more defeaning than the sex-negative feminists arguing back about “objectification” and so forth? This case has been more prevalent than the one you present, thus far.

      Anyway, i’d love it if this debate actually went to happen, because it’d mean that we get Arianne. Sigh…

      I’m not sure what level it would hit on the complain-o-meter, but I’d guess some of those same people who complain about all the “objectification” would complain if Arianne suddenly kept her clothes on.

      I could be wrong. It wouldn’t be the first time. 🙂

      Sue the Fury:
      I can’t help but notice the difference in reactions to the idea of Will Tudor as Olyvar returning compared to the idea of Myranda coming back. People get so angry about Myranda, and yet there’s less changing around in Ramsay’s story than say, Loras’s, since Ramsay did have lackies (they just weren’t hot ladies).

      I hadn’t thought about that, but now that you mention it, I haven’t seen much complaining about Olyvar, and certainly not the vitriol some seem to have for Myranda.

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    51. I’m curious why people thought she was killed off. She only missed one episode that Ramsay was in and there wouldn’t have been anything for her to do in that one anyway. What am I missing here?

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    52. WeirwoodTreeHugger,

      Not in the comments about Will Tudor returning for season 5, which was my point- the discussions about the characters returning. http://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-season-5-filming-kicks-high-gear-belfast/

      Bliss,

      Because she was last seen having sex with Ramsay, and she vanished in the middle of an attack, and he turned up to greet Yara covered in scratches. People thought something might’ve happened with Myranda before Ramsay got to Yara.

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    53. Alan:

      Just to clarify, i didn’t mean to imply that Myranda/Arianne was a direct swap, of course that makes no sense.

      What i tried to say is this. When show-defenders tell people that “they have to cut some characters so they go with the least important, like Victarion or Arianne”, they’re implying that Vic or Arianne are less important than Myranda or that burping whore from Mole’s Town. Are they kidding me? (Before the season aired, i thought that character was supposed to be a show-equivalent to Zei, but boy, i was so wrong, and she was so annoying)

      I understand that if they cut secondary characters (yet keep tertiary or quaternary ones) is because they want to cut or reduce plots, and that’s likely a combination of budget constraints and personal preferences of D&D. But the “importance” explanation is a little too simplistic and doesn’t fly, that’s all.

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    54. Abyss,

      Because how old is

      Arya?

      The entire Dreadfort household definitely knows her, so it’d be hard for everyone to keep their mouth shout. This is as bad as the “theories” of making Yara

      Fake Arya

      .

      But I’ll always welcome her body on my tv!

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    55. Kyrion:
      I can see Myranda being

      though obviously different lol

      I agree. She can replace all of Ramsey’s boys and her

      murder can drive Ramsey mad or just make the storyline more intense.

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    56. Sue the Fury:
      Dame Pasty,

      Yeah but why would people label Myranda as “T&A” (a really gross term) and not Olyvar? I think it’s clear these are both very sexualized characters.

      [Enters smart-ass mode]

      Because Olyvar has no T’s and just A?

      [Exits smart-ass mode]

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    57. Sue the Fury,

      I’m sorry if I offended you…was not my intention. I felt that Olyvar played an important role in showing us that LF had his spies everywhere and that they weren’t limited to women AND that Loras’ orientation is still a secret which makes him vulnerable. Olyvar shows that men can be exploited in that way too. He was also a way to show Oberyn’s sexual preferences (or lack of, as the case may be 🙂 The scenes that Olyvar were in would not have worked without him. Myranda’s presence in the hunting scene was unnecessary and the sex scene…still don’t understand why they had that in there. I hope they plan to use her in some significant way down the road. Then her continuing presence will have been justified, I suppose. Otherwise she is just one more naked female, of which there is no shortage of on GoT.

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    58. Sue the Fury:
      Dame Pasty,
      Yeah but why would people label Myranda as “T&A” (a really gross term) and not Olyvar? I think it’s clear these are both very sexualized characters.

      Because this is a thread about Myranda and not that other male “P&A” character. 🙂

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    59. Sue the Fury,

      Seems a bit of a stretch to me. He just likes it rough. It was completely unnecessary to show the sex scene in my opinion, but it fits his character. I would have thought it stranger if he had no scratches. Of course him going into battle without even a shirt let alone armor didn’t work for me either, so the scratches too were unnecessary.

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    60. Myranda is there to show that there are people in Ramsay’s entourage that he has been able to bend to his will and have a similar worldview. It shows that he has a magnetic personality for certain individuals. This helps to explain why a person like Theon could be brought under Ramsay’s sway as well. We don’t get the backstories of Ramsay’s entourage like we do with Theon but presumably he has different methods in getting others to follow him which makes him that much more nuanced and dangerous than just a guy who enjoys torturing people.

      This was true in the books as it is on show. The only difference is that in the books, we’ve got a bunch of greaseball dudes and the show chose to have good looking women. The principle remains the same.

      And logistically, some minor characters are necessary because the show requires them to be present so that the main characters (like Ramsay) can bounce their inner dialogue off of them. The show can’t give you Theon and Ramsay’s thoughts, they need them to voice them out loud so sometimes another character hanging out in the room or in the forest with them accomplishes this.

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    61. King Tommen,
      What’s the purpose of showing Ramsay’s charisma and appeal to others? I don’t think that elucidates anything about why Theon was “brought under his sway” either. Theon was tortured physically and mentally and that’s all the explanation anyone should need as to why he is acting so differently now. Ramsay’s charisma has nothing to do with Theon. His ability to manipulate people does, however. But again, I’m not sure how that ability needs to be shown any further for the purposes of the Bolton portion of the story going forward. The only thing Myranda illustrates is that she is a sadist and Ramsey attracts other sadists. Since we already know that about Ramsey and know that about sadists in general, I still don’t see what Myranda adds to the story to date. Again, if they use her in some significant way in the future then her character will make sense but for now, for me, she’s superfluous.

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    62. Dame Pasty,

      She has had next to no screen time to date and when she is on the screen, it’s almost always in a scene with Ramsay when he’s saying something to her about the way he feels (which is pretty much her function outside being pretty). Complaining about her being on the show seems silly. She isn’t going off and getting her own storylines and having her own adventures, she’s in Ramsay’s or Theon’s scenes as one of his “gang”. It would be the exact same thing as if the show threw Damon Dance for Me or Yellow Dick on the screen. It’s just not a big deal and people complaining about it are bringing some extra baggage along that has very little to do with what role she actually is playing on the screen.

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    63. Sue the Fury:
      I don’t get the “They keep her but cut (character who has nothing to do with this storyline) logic.” I can understand if she was supplanting someone who should be in that storyline instead but she has nothing to do with Euron or Arianne. They need minor characters to interact with the major ones.

      I would normally agree with this but in her case I feel she is completely unnecessary

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    64. “Why did the show bother with Anguy? Why is Rodrik Cassel part of the story? What purpose does Grenn actually serve? Was Rakharo really that important?”

      Minor characters are there because the main characters need them there to talk to, mostly or to show there’s a bigger universe and hierarchy than just the main characters in the credits. Just because there isn’t some massive plot purpose that necessitates their presence doesn’t mean it’s not a good idea to have them there.

      As always, this argument more or less can be boiled down to, “the character wasn’t in the books, so they aren’t important and I’m not going to bother thinking about it any more than that.”

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    65. Greenjones,

      Weekend I guess. Plus there’s not been any major news for a day or two so any casting stuff is lapped up for discussion!

      I think the Bastard’s Boys in the books kind of showed how childlike Ramsays cruelty was and that his gang were manipulated by not knowing any better and not suffering any consequences. Psycho- brats. I’m not really sure what Myranda does. I guess she could be seen to have a similar role but it’s not as effective for me. Not too bothered as she’s a throwaway character but I think the show would be no worse off without her. If they do try and flesh her out more though I may take more issue as I really don’t think it’s needed.

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    66. Correct me if I’m wrong, but she has appeared in three scenes, totaling about 8-10 minutes. Why all the consternation?

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    67. King Tommen,

      I actually wasn’t going to post about her at all until Sue asked the question, “why the different reaction to her than Olyvar?” which is what I was trying to answer. As I said I will refer final judgement to see how the Ramsay story line proceeds.

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    68. I didn’t even know Oly was returning. I’m not looking forward to it, he’s a terrible character. At least Myranda is wickedly fun in her batshit crazyness.

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    69. Yeah, I really don’t get why this is do controversial. T&A is a gross term, I agree, but it’s clear that that’s part of Myranda’s deal. That and being Ramsay’s psycho murderer friend. I guess they wanted to show a sexual side to Ramsay (which they couldn’t do with “The Bastard’s Boys” unless they gay him out). They bumped two groups of characters into one, saves money and you still get the sense that Ramsay leads some sort of psychopath entourage like in the books.

      I think the analogy between this character and Olyvar is pretty perfect. We’ll see where they both go in season 5, but I think they’ll be necessary in the end and take over roles of characters from the books.

      Whether Myranda dies in the Winterfell killings or becomes Ramsay’s next doggie (if he gets bored with her, or if Roose thinks she needs to take a hike), I think she’ll stir some moments that highlight Ramsay’s character or others in Winterfell.

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    70. King Tommen,

      King Tommen:
      As always, this argument more or less can be boiled down to, “the character wasn’t in the books, so they aren’t important and I’m not going to bother thinking about it any more than that.”

      Can we please not make generalizations of this sort? My reason for having zero interest in this character has nothing at all to do with the books.

      King Tommen:
      Complaining about her being on the show seems silly…

      …It would be the exact same thing as if the show threw Damon Dance for Me or Yellow Dick on the screen.

      I would prefer to see Yellow Dick or Damon because those characters provided a better perspective of who Ramsay is and – as you said above – how he gets others to follow him. I don’t get that same sense from Myranda. The character, for me, isn’t particularly well written.

      I’m not a book purist and I’m not a show apologist. I have my opinions. You can disagree with those that don’t share your opinions but there is no need to call it “silly.”

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    71. jentario,

      I always got that Ramsay was not really comfortable ( nice way of saying had a very warped view of) with any sort of relationship with women ( As his interactions with

      Lady Hornwood and fake Arya more than demonstrated!)

      . Not that he was gay just kind of immature/twisted (similar in a way to Joffrey in the show). I think it was his brattish tantrums mixed with his cruelty that really made me loathe him in the book. Having a girlfriend ( even if she is nutty as squirrel shit) doesn’t sit with the vile character I envision and humanises him more than it should. But hey. It’s a minor quibble and a personal preference. Will see how it turns out!

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    72. TheTouchOfFrost,

      That’s not how I see it. I don’t think Ramsay is childish in the same way as Joffrey was. To him, the whole world is his playground and people are his toys. The one person he treats with any deal of respect is his father (and through him, some other characters- in order to maintain the “good son” image). The rest are his to play with- whether he wants to kill them brutally, fuck them, or torture them to the point of mental and physical collapse, Ramsay will use them until he grows bored and when he grows bored he’ll use them in other ways (mostly just killing). I think good old Tansy was just as bad as Myranda was- and probably quite a few of his psycho friends shared that fate. The exception would be Reek- which Ramsay wasn’t allowed to kill (being a Greyjoy and all). I think Ramsay eventually grew fond of Reek with the whole Stockholm syndrome thing. The others mean nothing to him- Myranda included. I think her days are numbered.

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    73. So… as the introduction to this thread mentioned that kills one theory about that sequence in S4E6.
      Then what the hell! was the deal with a blood streaked Ramsay spouting a non sequitur line “This is turning out to be a lovely evening” about?????
      That scene has all the hall marks of some length of story footage that was hastily re-cut for some reason that ,seemingly, maybe, had to do with the controversy over the Breaker of Chains episode.
      If not that, what the hell was it with Ramsay’s unexplained appearance and goofy dialog???

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    74. Ironborn,

      I guess for me FArya isn’t a “real” thing anyway. I take it more of Bolton saying: “Listen up guys. This is Arya Stark and my son is going to marry her. Now who of you is going to challenge me on that..” 😉 Admittedly, Theon is afraid of JP’s wrong eye color, so I guess he thinks it’s a thing. – Then again, Theon is afraid of a lot of things these days and doesn’t really think think straight anymore 😀

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    75. Boojam,

      I always took the blood as evidence of kinky sex. Myranda appeared to be choking Ramsay, not meaning to kill him, but in that way some people like to play around with asphyxiation during sex, and the blood was from some very intense scratching. It stands to reason that someone as twisted as Ramsay would like his sex extraordinarily rough/dangerous.

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    76. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I always took the blood as evidence of kinky sex. Myranda appeared to be choking Ramsay, not meaning to kill him, but in that way some people like to play around with asphyxiation during sex, and the blood was from some very intense scratching. It stands to reason that someone as twisted as Ramsay would like his sex extraordinarily rough/dangerous.

      Then why not give that explanation?

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    77. jentario,

      I guess we kind of agree with the child-like cruelty he possesses. Almost as though he’s on a fucked up journey of discovery and doesn’t have any limitations placed on him except from his father and being legitimsed. I still think he can be compared to Joffrey with the two main differences being he has more limits on what he can do than Joff and he’s smarter/more cunning than him. If the Myranda character is working for folks then fair play but she isn’t for me. She doesn’t seem to have a fear of him which I think lessens his intimidation and doesn’t accurately represent what he is capable of doing to women. Even some glimpses of her not being sure of his mental state would go a long way. Hopefully this will be remedied this season but we shall see.

      Boojam,

      He’d just got laid ( perhaps in a pretty rough way) and was about to get involved in some violence ( which he quite enjoys). Also…he’s fookin’ mental! I think the dialgoue fitted fine! Not at any point did I think he’d raped/killed her.

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    78. Boojam: Then why not give that explanation?

      To me, it was pretty clear in the scene, and it didn’t need further explanation. As soon as I saw what I thought was Myranda choking him, the rest (meaning the blood) just followed. That doesn’t mean I’m right, it’s just how I saw it.

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    79. If you want to watch good TV currently on then watch the Knick on Cinemax or Outlander* on Starz.

      *though the damn voice-overs are hard during the first two episodes.

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    80. I may not want to see Myranda substituted for a certain character in the Northern storyline, but I have had absolutely no problem with her presence on the show these past two seasons. I certainly have no problem with her returning for Season 5. If anything, I find her to be more interesting than the Bastard’s Boys from the novels – if only because her character is more unique in its conception than those brutish, yes-men type thugs. As for the “T&A factor” (a term that I hate, BTW), I think that particular line of criticism is a bit overblown. Myranda’s a tertiary player at best, and certainly not the most nuanced character on the show. But Charlotte Hope has done a fine job playing her so far. I see no real reason to get upset over her return.

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    81. To me all of those scratches he had wasn’t from the rough sex but from the fighting he took before getting into the kennels, I mean the guy was shirtless, and you can hear sword fighting when Yara is freeing Reek.
      I think it was a great scene because it shows his way of fighting just Like Roose describes it in the books, he fights like a psychotic butcher and didn’t even care to put armor on because by then, Yara would have escaped with Theon with or against his own will. And yeah he’s got the balls to do it shirtless because he’s a damn psycho thirsty for blood

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    82. I wonder if they’ve just made Ramsay less misogynist than in the book. Of course, he’s still an evil sadist, but show Ramsay seems to treat women and men on equal terms of cruelty.

      Honestly, Myranda’s not my favorite addition to the show. Though who knows, perhaps they’ll write something interesting for her this year.

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    83. I was not a big fan of this character. Congrats to the actress for landing more screen time but I hope she’s one to be killed off lol

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    84. Sue the Fury,

      Yeah both highly sexualized characters put in to give bigger characters something to do. I think the show has screwed up Loras much more than Ramsay, so I guess by extension I have more problems with Olyvar than Myranda? Loras is one of my favorite minorish characters in the book but show!Loras is basically “im gay lol.” (And yes, I knew Loras was gay when I first read the book, it’s blatantly obvious, but that trait doesn’t define him in the book just as it shouldn’t solely define anyone).

      The Yara rescue attempt was botched this year, but that wasn’t at all the fault of Charlotte Hope or the conception of her character, just rushed writing/directing. And last season, ok maybe the scene where she sexually manipulates Theon wasn’t a great scene, but my understanding was they were contractually obligated to include Theon and Ramsay in six episodes that year so they had to do *something* to fill the time. And Theon was known as a womanizer, so Ramsay and his pals exploiting that as part of Theon’s torture makes some sense.

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    85. Fjordgazer:
      Alan:

      Just to clarify, i didn’t mean to imply that Myranda/Arianne was a direct swap, of course that makes no sense.

      What i tried to say is this. When show-defenders tell people that “they have to cut some characters so they go with the least important, like Victarion or Arianne”, they’re implying that Vic or Arianne are less important than Myranda or that burping whore from Mole’s Town. Are they kidding me?

      That’s because the argument is shorthand and not fully explained. The argument isn’t that a Victarion or Arianne is less important than Myranda. It’s that Victarion is less important than say, time properly spent on Theon or Ramsay.

      Myranda is irrelevant to this discussion because she has no “Solo” screentime. She’s part of Theon and Ramsay’s screentime. Even if they spend a few minutes overall that really are centered on here and not just as a Ramsay talking partner, it’s not enough to include Victarion in.

      To introduce Victarion and his plot, you need a ton of screentime — maybe half an hour at least? And so, based on the pace and timing that D&D are going off, several things had to get cut.

      You want to argue they should do 9 seasons or 15 episode seasons? I won’t disagree. It’s a choice they made and with it comes cuts. Lots of necessary cuts. Beloved and existing characters are fragmenting their plotlines, leaving little time for new characters.

      You want to argue that Arianne shouldn’t have been part of those cuts? I’ll reserve any definitive argument until we see Dorne.

      But Victarion?

      Eh, it’s hard to see where he’s not one of the first sub-plots on the cutting room floor. I know some folks like him, but there’s not a huge plot need for him and he runs the risk of being very cartoonish when transferred to the screen. He’s more important than Myranda, but that’s not the argument. He’s simply not important enough to cut existing plotlines with characters people love and it seemingly lost the importance argument with Dorne.

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    86. Veltigar:
      If you want to watch good TV currently on then watch the Knick on Cinemax or Outlander* on Starz.

      *though the damn voice-overs are hard during the first two episodes.

      Seriously. It basically ruined the pilot — this incessant telling me what the character was literally seeing and feeling. If it wasn’t important set-up, I’d recommend skipping it.

      Reviews say it gets better tho so I’m trying to stick with it.

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    87. Not sure it’s fair to criticise the character’s inclusion to date; her role as Ramsay’s accomplice, firstly in her shared torture of Theon with Tansy, then her role in Tansy’s barbaric death, showed us insight to Ramsay’s ability to lead a certain type of sick shit-head to do his bidding happily. A cruel character, yes, but she has provided supporting narrative weight to Ramsay’s role as someone with power others will follow. I can’t see her exceed this supporting type of role going forward; she will really only support Ramsay/Theon development; her inclusion ‘at the cost of characters from other storylines’ seems irrelevant. Kudos Charlotte on playing an unlikeable character with minimal screen time so well, and best of luck with next seasons material!

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    88. Well this is a bit of an odd and interesting development. I’m guessing she is around for more hunting scenes and probably some form of interaction with Theon.

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    89. I don’t know why all the fuss…. Major characters need more minor characters for the support and development of their story lines. In KL, there are plenty of characters to carry (not an Olyvar fan), but in the north, the Bolton’s are in need of supportive characters, especially given Locke’s demise. Added bonus is her sex appeal.

      Abyss,

      I like your thoughts on this. I’m not convinced- she could be “used” any number of sadistic ways- but I do like your thoughts, and think it could make for good storytelling (except that it would veer wildly off book canon)…

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    90. Myranda rules. I have always assumed that she would be the fake Arya. The northern Lords must gather at Winterfell for the "battle of ice". Why would all the northerners be gathered at Winterfell if not for a wedding?

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    91. Alan:

      Ok. Well presented. Yet again, which plotlines get cut, and how much of them, is still based on D&D’s taste, which was my original argument even if it perhaps didn’t come across very clearly. That someone’s opinion on expendable or less endearing characters happens to coincide with that of the showrunners, doesn’t make it less subjective, yet people sometimes state it as fact, and that gets annoying after a while. All’s i’m saying.

      Cheers!

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    92. Her character didn’t leave a huge impression on me, so I have no real feelings about this one way or the other.
      (She is hot though… :p)

      As for the as-yet uncast characters… I trust D&D’s judgement on this. While I would love it if they could include all the characters, that simply isn’t possible with the limited time and budget.

      Let’s remember that D&D have been told, more or less, how the story will end, so they know better than any of us which characters will be most important to the endgame.

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    93. Fjordgazer:
      Alan:

      Ok. Well presented. Yet again, which plotlines get cut, and how much of them, is still based on D&D’s taste, which was my original argument even if it perhaps didn’t come across very clearly. That someone’s opinion on expendable or less endearing characters happens to coincide with that of the showrunners, doesn’t make it less subjective, yet people sometimes state it as fact, and that gets annoying after a while. All’s i’m saying.

      Cheers!

      Can’t disagree when we’re dealing with some of the cuts. I have my favorites and others will have theirs. Some characters really are more essential, but there’s a slew that all fall into the same bucket, and then it comes down to D&D’s choice — with a smart preference for established characters.

      But yeah, people state as fact things that are fundamentally opinion. instead of just saying “hey, here’s three good reasons why you might cut victarion instead of dorne…” It seemingly comes across as fact.

      You can even see it a bit above. There’s a lot of definitive comments, but here’s a likely scenario : ramsay needs companions. Why not make her female and attractive? It’s just a choice and not all that important.

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    94. I always just assumed Myranda’s inclusion was to help whitewash Ramsay so that he was more suitable for television. I daresay the level of sadism and misogyny in the books would’ve been a bit too much for the show. Viewers would have dreaded having to sit through any scenes with him in it, especially if they had included the exploits of his Bastard boys as well. But giving Ramsay a female sidekick instead, who appears to enjoy it as much as he does, softens the repulsiveness of the character and makes his torture for fun less about misogyny and more about power, not to mention making his sex scenes a lot more consensual than they would have been otherwise. I kind of wish the writers had worked out a way to preserve the level of Ramsay’s vileness from the books, even if it meant they just implied the things he was doing off-screen, just to show that they could go that far, but it obviously would have upset too many viewers. Certainly Show Ramsay is no saint, but he has been whitewashed a bit so he reads as an antagonist, rather than a monster.

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    95. Schrödinger’s Cat,

      Well said. There are limits even for hob on what they feel the public can stomach. It’s understandable, and perhaps they could have found a way to get the “vileness” across implicitly, rather than in your face. Hard to say. They took it pretty far with Theon already, but Ramsay takes it to another level with his treatment of

      fArya

      .

      Abyss,

      I should clarify what I said above about your approach to utilizing her character- by “veering wildly off canon” I meant insofar as Myranda would end up interacting with other major characters and weave into the story in the future, if your thoughts on the matter turn out to be true.

      subbing her for Jeyne Poole, and hence, fArya would have implications all the way to Stannis and eventually Jon. So much of Jeyne’s character and connection to the north, to the Starks, was innocence. Myranda’s moral identity is clouded with sadism. We don’t know the importance of fArya in the long run, but certainly… We all feel for her character. Not sure I see fArya happening with Myranda, but like I said, nice plot you outlined, for sure. It seems like just about anything is up for grabs- it’s been very quiet with castings, especially in the north, and everything is gonna start condensing with the adaptation- but who the fuck knows? I’m feeling like we’re way more likely to see her die in Winterfell than to escape alive…

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    96. Myranda put that round thing on my face. 🙂

      But seriously, this is no shocker on her return. Characters don’t usually disappear In this story which I sometimes wish they did so GRRM wouldn’t have such a difficult time finishing the books. Her character does not bother me, it’s just there for now so I hope they do something with her this season.

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    97. if they tell you you can only have this actress as

      FArya or no fArya

      at all what would you say ! I would say ok . lets hope they dont cut her

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    98. Schrödinger’s Cat,

      I don’t know about Ramsay being whitewashed. He’s not a serial rapist (as far as we can tell) on the show, so I guess he’s slightly better than book-Ramsay. But I don’t think that pushes him off the ” monster” category. And I don’t see Myranda’s role in whitewashing him, either.

      I think people are overthinking the inclusion of Myranda. I bet it was a pretty quick and natural decision to take the two women from the castration scene in Season 3 and incorporate them into the hunting scene. I think that’s really all that went into deciding to keep her around, she’s an already established character who can be plugged into scenes that were already going to be written anyway.

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    99. jentario,

      Thats also a good explanation, but still I say it again, considering his psychological profile he is well capable of going into battle whithout shirt/armor. But if theres any cutscene like that hopefully we’ll get it in the bluray extras

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    100. I’d love to be watching outlander right now, but the networks in my country won’t show it until after the Independence referendum and perhaps not even then, depending on the result! A show set in Scotland, filmed in Scotland and no-one I know is even aware of its existence. The north remembers..

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    101. Schrödinger’s Cat,

      I agree strongly. Show Ramsay is a puppy dog compared to the book version who is deeply unpleasant. Although I don’t really need graphic detail some reference to him hunting and raping women, how he killed his older half brother (Roose’s real heir), the rape and imprisonent (and rather disturbing death of) Lady Hornwood and how Roose doesn’t want chlidren with his current wife partley because he knows Ramsay would kill them. The show version is a little too comedic (and dare I say has a kind of coolness about him) for my own personal tastes. It’s not ruining my enjoyment as Iwan Rheon is very good but I think they should really show just how vile this character is. He has no redeemable qualities and should illicit hate, disgust and nothing else from the viewer.

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    102. I don’t think the

      fArya plot will be included in the show. My wild guess is Theon/Reek’s redemption arc might involve him finding and saving Rickon and Osha. The Boltons are looking for them, after all. Davos may end up staying at the Wall, involved with the Jon-Melisandre-Shireen storyline or accompanying Stannis for the Battle of Winterfell.

      TV Ramsey is pretty vile. I don’t find anything remotely comedic about him. Iwan Rheon makes him creepy as hell.

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    103. H. Stark,

      Some good old dragon scenes. I wonder how much bigger Rhaegal and Viserion will be this season… Probably still not as big as Drogon in season 4, lol

      Balerion The Cat,

      It also confirms that Tyrion will be in the Daznak Pit and that it won’t happen without him. Which means that it’ll have to happen later in the season so Tyrion can get there in time (presumably episode 9) which means the battle of Meereen is likely pushed to season 6 as expected. Now why is Tyrion in the Pit in the show (remember, Penny is cut)? My guess is that he and Jorah have to fight side by side possibly against lions like in the books and Dany stops it.

      Good stuff

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    104. Al Swearengen,

      She would have appeared with or without those characters, but fine. I’ll miss them too, we have every right to miss those big brown nipples and Euron’s megadong (though it could still be in, we’ll see). Point is Myranda’s beautiful ass has nothing to do with it.

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    105. jentario,

      Oh, OK then. There goes my guess, heh. Still, I hope the show accounts for what happened to them, just to remind viewers. I really don’t think

      fArya will be adapted, so the show writers will have some alternative for Theon. Perhaps it will be Yara? Theon has to escape Ramsey and cross paths with Stannis eventually. Maybe his chance to escape will be the Battle of Winterfell.

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    106. jentario,

      She might not of. With screen time dedicated to Euron’s horn being blown or Arianne’s bush there might not be space for D & D’s fan fic characters.

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    107. I just love so much reading about “objectification” (in quotes!!) and “sex negative feminsts” who want to expunge all sexy important nakedeness from GoT. Oh, and about “the ridiculous reaction to Cersei´s ´rape´ scene”. I mean some people just don´t understand critique, do they?

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    108. Season 5 Opening Trailer hopes:

      *Song plays*
      “Oh I am the last of the Giants, my people are gone from the earth”
      *shots of daggers stabbing and cutting throats in winterfell*

      “The last of the great mountain Giants who ruled all the world from my birth”
      *scenes of Cersei being dragged by a septa* *scenes of chaos in Mereen*

      “Oh the small folk have stolen my forests, they’ve stolen my rivers and hills”
      *scenes of the battle of Deepwood motte* *scenes of stone men in the royne*

      “In stone walls they burn their great fires, on stonewalls the forge their sharp spears”
      *scene of dragon fire, scene of spear men burning*

      “Whilst I walk alone in the mountains with no true companions but tears”
      *shots of Cersei crying* *shots of Melisandre pleading to Jon* *shots of Ramsay in panic of Roose in confusion*

      “They hunt me with dogs in the daylight, they hunt me with torches by night”
      *shots of Ramsay’s dogs, shots of Stannis men in the snow*

      “For these men who are small can never stand talk while Giants still walk in the light”
      *shot of a Whitewalker, shot of Drogon*

      🙂 make this happen!

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    109. Alan: Seriously. It basically ruined the pilot — this incessant telling me what the character was literally seeing and feeling. If it wasn’t important set-up, I’d recommend skipping it.

      Reviews say it gets better tho so I’m trying to stick with it.

      In good Starz tradition (think Spartacus and Black Sails), the opening episodes are hard to watch. I agree that the voice-over in the first two episodes was incredibly annoying (especially the pretentious internal monologue about that fucking vase), but it has improved considerably.

      It’s still used unnecessary occasionally, but it isn’t as pretentious as in the beginning. I think it has hit its stride much quicker than Spartacus and Black Sails did. Both of those had at least four garbage episodes (with the occasional good scene), before anything really good came along. Outlander started to get interesting from the third episode onwards.

      Next weeks episode, the sixth one if I’m not mistaken, is said to be a real gamechanger. I read some advance reviews and the critics made it clear that that’s the episode where Outlander shows what it’s made off. I’m very curious.

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    110. Myranda’s nothing special, but more her probably means more Iwan Rheon, so I’m down. I’m not too concerned about shirtless Ramsay in ep6, it’s obvious that Ramsay >>>>>>> Ironborn grunts. No armor required.

      Turncloak,

      Nice!

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    111. I think we need to separate the important pieces

      fArya

      plays in the book and look at how the adaptation can handle them differently. It needn’t be a one to one character transfer.

      The first role

      fArya plays is as a fake connection to the house Stark in order to legitimize Bolton’s claim on Winterfell. Here Myranda fills the role nicely coupled with the existence of Reek. Upon other leaders questioning fArya, Reek can feed her the correct answers making the other northern houses think she is the real Arya. Yes Myranda is already known in the Dreadfort, but it’s unlikely anyone in service of house Bolton knowing her true identity would betray her at the risk of being flayed.

      The second role

      fArya plays is a reason for Jon Snow to involve himself in matters that the Lord Commander should be staying out of having sworn himself to the Watch. Again, Myranda fits this role as well. She isn’t seen by Jon Snow and word of the marriage between Ramsay and Arya can still motivate Jon’s story.

      The third role

      fArya plays is the reason for Theon’s redemption arc. His reason to risk more pain from Ramsay by saving someone else. Here Myranda would never work. Nor would any new character introduced at this late stage. Too much work would need to be done either changing Myranda into a sympathetic character Theon wants to protect, or in backstory for a new character to give a reasonable reason Theon would risk more torture. Here I see Yara taking over this role from fArya in the books. If Yara is captured, Theon will realize her rescue attempt wasn’t another test by Ramsay. The torture of his sister may be the kick in the ass he needs to break free from being Reek and become Theon Greyjoy again. The escape of fAyra may not be critical. Yara and Theon could take her as a hostage if it is, but I don’t think it’s needed. The letter Ramsay sends Jon regarding the failed rescue attempt and demanding the return of Reek should be enough for Jon to move the way the story needs him too.

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    112. Veltigar,

      I would agree. Outlander had a shaky start, but at this point the show has real promise…until they ended the last episode on a cliffhanger followed by previews for the following week giving away the result. One could knock themselves out face-palming that hard.

      I sure hope the show learns from that mistake and realizes a good show doesn’t need a cliffhanger to make people keep watching. After seeing the previews her answer is rather trivial.

      But I’ll overlook that mistake for now, I just hope they don’t repeat it. The voice overs haven’t really bothered me since she is in a situation she can’t tell anyone the truth yet. If she had a locket with a picture of her husband she could talk too the show could avoid the voice overs, but it is still her talking to herself.

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    113. fuelpagan,

      Good points on 1 and 2 for sure. I can see the logic on #3 too.

      The only way to make it work would be to see it as a way of showing how Theon’s better nature finally starts to assert itself again – that he decides to change as a result of Ramsay turning on Myranda for some sort of ridiculous and minor perceived insult.

      That could plausibly happen – and it ups the ante on Ramsay’s craziness even further, essentially. If you can do that, it would work out on some levels, because that plot point is less about fArya than it is about Theon. Then again, it’s arguable that Theon doesn’t have much of a better nature, but his “My real father lost his head in King’s Landing” line suggests it’s something that can be worked on. But he’s got no real tie to Myranda in any way, and people who do things for the right reasons don’t survive in Westeros. Which means we’ll likely still see Theon escape – and Ramsay could still send his taunting letter to Jon Snow about having married and violated his sister countless times. That may be how it works out, somehow.

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    114. Hodor Targaryen: I don’t think that pushes him off the ” monster” category.

      Guess that depends on how you define ‘monster’.

      Hodor Targaryen: I bet it was a pretty quick and natural decision to take the two women from the castration scene in Season 3 and incorporate them into the hunting scene.

      Largely unrelated, but actually that girl being hunted was a different actress from the blonde girl in the castration scene. They were calling her Tansy while they were chasing her, whereas the girl from season 3 was called Violet. Although I believe the actress who played Violet was pregnant at the time, so maybe she just couldn’t come back for season 4 and they subbed someone else in.

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    115. fuelpagan:
      Veltigar,

      I would agree. Outlander had a shaky start, but at this point the show has real promise…until they ended the last episode on a cliffhanger followed by previews for the following week giving away the result. One could knock themselves out face-palming that hard.

      I sure hope the show learns from that mistake and realizes a good show doesn’t need a cliffhanger to make people keep watching. After seeing the previews her answer is rather trivial.

      I never watch previews precisely because of shit like this. If I were you, I’d do the same. The people who cut those previews (like the guys who make most mainstream movie trailers) are a bunch of nitwits.

      I personally don’t fault a show for having a cliffhanger from time to time. As long as the technique isn’t overused. So far, that hasn’t been the case on Outlander, so I’ll give them a pass this time.

      fuelpagan:
      Veltigar,
      But I’ll overlook that mistake for now, I just hope they don’t repeat it. The voice overs haven’t really bothered me since she is in a situation she can’t tell anyone the truth yet. If she had a locket with a picture of her husband she could talk too the show could avoid the voice overs, but it is still her talking to herself.

      I honesttly prefer the voice-overs to her talking to a photo of Frank. That would be rather silly. Since episode three the voice-overs haven’t really bothered me. Most of the time, they are still unnecessary

      in episode three, there was the whole unnecessary explanation of her escape plan. If we had just gotten the shots without the voice-over, it would have been equally clear.

      but they aren’t as pretentious as in the first two and much better written (the vase voice-over in episode one was everything VO shouldn’t be).

      Btw: does anyone watch the Knick? Or am I the only one? It’s really good, you should all watch it. It’s directed from start to finish by Steven Soderbergh, a score by Cliff Martinez and Clive Owen is the lead.

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    116. fuelpagan,

      I agree about parts 1 and 2 and completely disagree with part 3 of your post.

      Yara being the one Theon saves makes zero sense.
      1. If that was the plan, they would have had her captured in season 4, when she was literally within Ramsay’s grasp. Instead, they deliberately had that scene make little significance to the story.
      2. Yara is not as weak as Theon. If anyone is saving anyone, it’s Yara saving Reek.
      3. The logistics of getting Yara to fight the Boltons again after she outright have up. This would be terrible writing, no way around it. Yara should end up with Stannis and should continue being a strong character for the foreseeable future.

      And why wouldn’t a new character work? A new character should work easily. You don’t need backstory to make the audience (or Theon) sympathize with a tortured, raped little girl. Any Northern low pen girl that looks relatively young and has Stark features would do. Theon saved Jeyne Poole in the book not because he knew her and her backstory but because he knew she was being tortured and because he knew that she is the key to Ramsay’s power in the North (real or fake). Both these elements remain intact with a new character. It really isn’t that difficult.

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    117. fuelpagan,

      I think the main problem I have with this theory is that Myranda looks a good deal older than Arya. She might be able to answer the northern lords’ questions thanks to Theon, but I doubt she’d be able to trick them into thinking she’s the same age as Arya (13-14 in the show, I believe), even if Maisie is a fair bit older than her character in real life. And more importantly for D&D, if the northern lords do fall for it, would the audience buy that as a plausible turn of events. It’s sort of skewed ‘meta’ logic, but given we’ve seen a lot more of Arya than the northern lords have, it’s actually the audience and especially the unsullied viewers who need to be convinced that Myranda could be a believable stand-in. The only way I think that would work in the show is if they specify that all the northern lords actually know that she isn’t Arya, but are too scared to dispute Roose’s claims. So it’s entirely for appearance sake, in which case what’s the point? More likely the writer’s just won’t bother with the wedding plot. They’ve ceased Winterfell, just like the Frey’s have ceased Riverrun. Solidifying their right to it with a marriage makes sense in the books, but isn’t required in the show.
      And I agree with jentario, as for Yara getting captured and Theon needing to rescue her, that does make sense in theory, but having just escaped from the Boltons and denounced her brother, why would she go back so soon only to get captured? Especially if they’re not going to have the Kingsmoot, why didn’t they just have Ramsay capture her when she attacked the Dreadfort and then take her with them to Winterfell? I would assume she’s sailing back around Westeros to Pyke now, which takes half a season. I could believe the Boltons getting their hands on Rickon thanks to the Umbers, and Theon having to rescue him maybe, but having Yara getting captured would seem like the writers were just going backwards and forwards and stalling her story even worse. Not too mention she’s supposed to be a formidable badass, nothing like timid Jeyne Poole, so having poor emasculated Reek rescue her is bizarre.

      tl ; dr

      D&D won’t bother having fArya or the wedding. The Boltons will capture Rickon instead, and he’s the one Theon will have to rescue and that Jon will send Mance for.

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    118. Jared:
      Turncloak,

      Please submit your application to the HBO promotional department immediately.

      Haha thanks!!! I would be so hyped for the season after that. Another trailer I would like is scenes intercut while Jon Snow reads Cotter Pyke’s letter. Maybe I’ll do that next 🙂

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    119. Greatjon of Slumber,

      I just don’t think Myranda works well for #3 at all. But that doesn’t mean she still can’t fill some of the gaps

      the absence of Jeyne Poole leaves behind. Too much work must be done to make it even plausible for Theon to take a risk to help Myranda.

      We already have a scene of Reek helping Ramsay and Myranda chase down and torture another person. We have him tricking Iron Born into surrendering knowing full well what Ramsay will do to them. They’ve done a really good job of breaking the character down from Theon into Reek. He was completely loyal to Ramsay during Yara’s rescue attempt thinking it was another test by Ramsay. Yara is the only connection left to old Theon. The torture of Yara could break the spell on Theon in a realistic short amount of screen time. A capture of Yara scene, a torture of Yara scene, then a rescue of Yara by Theon with a brief dialogue explaining why Theon is helping her. Myranda or a new character would need much more to convince the audience why Theon would now take a risk after being shown to be so loyal to Ramsay. That is time needed elsewhere for the other story lines. Maybe D&D have some magic up their sleeve that will make perfect sense why Theon would risk himself to save Myranda. As long as it makes sense, I’m fine with whatever happens. But as of right now I see the role of Book fArya being split between Myranda and Yara.

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    120. Schrödinger’s Cat,

      I think you’re overlooking the importance of

      fAyra. She is the motivation that drives Jon Snow into playing the game of thrones instead of just staying neutral and protecting the wall. She is the one Jon wants Mance to rescue. Ramsay uncovering this plot is what drives him to send the letter to Jon that forces Jon to act in a way that ends up getting him killed. Her age is a factor, but her answering the questions correctly thanks to Reek, the other lords can’t prove she is fake, even though they may still not believe it.
      As far as your reasons for why it wouldn’t make sense for her to be captured later instead of at the Dreadfort is that you would have her torture start sooner. For Theon to wait months to finally rescue her just wouldn’t make sense. The rescue attempt shows that Yara cares enough to risk her life for Theon, but Theon is broken to the point all he sees is another trick by Ramsay to prove his loyalty. She doesn’t need to be captured trying to rescue Theon again. She can be caught some other way and brought to Winterfell. Once Theon witnesses her being tortured and asking for his help it is a plausible reason for him to snap out of it. Yara will likely be locked up pretty well, while Reek haven proved loyal during the rescue attempt will likely have the freedom to sleep in an unlocked cell. So him rescuing her would make sense as he would have the ability with his freedom if he had the motivation.

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    121. Veltigar,

      Like I said, the use of VO in Outlander hasn’t really bothered me as I feel there is a good reason for their use at this point. If she ever trusts someone else with the truth we may start to see them used less.

      As far as episode 3, yeah, that was a little heavy handed.

      I don’t mind a well done cliffhanger as well, but the one in the last episode was just poorly done cutting it off in the middle of a conversation. If they had ended it a few seconds earlier with them being surrounded by red coats before anyone spoke I would have felt different about ending on that type of cliffhanger. But to cut it off before the answer to a question just felt like a cheap gimmick. Like one of those bad news teasers to keep you watching knowing the answer is probably lame.

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    122. fuelpagan,
      Veltigar,

      I’m a huge Outlander fan and have been waiting for 20+ years for the books to make it to the screen. I do written reviews/recaps on my blog (http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/?s=outlander).

      Now that being said, I also think the VO during her escape was too much and I really hope it starts to fade away over time. I’d be curious to hear what you thought about this past weekend’s episode. We can chat about it at my blog if you want (but beware there are probably spoilers in my recaps if you haven’t read the books).

      If you’re wavering on the show or know of someone else who is, ep6 coming up this Saturday is universally being haled as one of the best on TV today by critics. That’s pretty high praise and I hope it lives up to it (I think it will, actually). Menzies is supposed to be fantastic as Black Jack and Catraina Balfe who has really been growing into the role of Claire takes it up another notch.

      In regards to The Knick I have been watching it and think it’s very good but dark, even darker than GoT probably because it’s set in our world and the state of medicine at that time as they show it is pretty accurate. I’m kind of squeamish though and end up looking through my fingers at a lot of the surgical scenes. But I can’t look away either, which is a good sign.

      Okay, now I will stay on topic from here on out 😉

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    123. fuelpagan,

      And why can’t the “motivation that drives Jon Snow into playing the game of thrones” be the Boltons capturing Rickon? Why can’t he want Mance to rescue Rickon; a plot which Ramsay finds out? D&D are cutting unnecessary storylines left, right and centre, so I think they’d jump at the chance to remove the wedding and avoid inventing and explaining fArya to the audience, in favour of having an actual Stark hostage whose just been floating around anyway.
      How is Yara going to be “caught some other way” if she’s sailing back to Pyke away from the north and around? To match continuity, that should take her half a season, then what? She heads back north immediately for unknown reasons, gets captured somewhere, taken to Winterfell, imprisoned, tortured, rescued by Theon, escapes, and runs into Stannis? Within five or six episodes? There’s plenty of speculation that the Battle of Winterfell will be in the finale too, in which case all of that would need to be before then as well. Not only would that be fatally rushed, if Yara ends up needing Reek to rescue her, then that would be awful writing. He feels enough compassion for a mere acquaintance in the books to snap out of it, so why does it need to be his more-than-capable sister?

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    124. Schrödinger’s Cat,

      Just cut the FA stuff altogether I say. Makes things a lot easier. The fact that the Boltons had a hand in killing his brother and defiling his home is surely enough motivation for him to want to get involved. If he needs extra motivation then they could claim to have killed Arya. Mance could still be persuaded to infiltrate Winterfell maybe by the promise of the Wildlings being allowed to settle the Gift and the Watch could keep his wife/son as insurance that he goes through with it (don’t have to be cast, could easily be referenced and kept off screen). He could even be sent in because of rumours that they have Arya captive (again, no need for casting). The event to draw all the Lords to Winterfell could be Ramsay marrying Myranda. Mance could kill her which would really give Ramsay motivation to go after Jon. For Theon’s redemption in saving someone, then maybe he saves a young girl in (an extended extra role) who used to live at Winterfell. Perhaps Beth Cassel so his guilty feelings of killing her father make him want to try and put things right?

      I dunno. They’re probably gonna go in a different direction altogether.

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    125. Dame Pasty:
      fuelpagan,
      Veltigar,

      I’m a huge Outlander fan and have been waiting for 20+ years for the books to make it to the screen.I do written reviews/recaps on my blog (http://drangedinaz.wordpress.com/?s=outlander).

      Now that being said, I also think the VO during her escape was too much and I really hope it starts to fade away over time.I’d be curious to hear what you thought about this past weekend’s episode.We can chat about it at my blog if you want (but beware there are probably spoilers in my recaps if you haven’t read the books).

      Since I haven’t read the books, I’ll stay clear of your recaps if you don’t mind. I thought the last episode was pretty good. Not as good as the one before that, which was excellent (perhaps a bit disjointed, but it worked very well as a breather episode).

      I do hope they cut down on the voice-overs even more. It’s not as bad as during the first two episodes, but they still use it to much when it isn’t necessary to understand what’s going on. However, the VO isn’t as pretentious anymore in the last three episodes and it’s quite beautifully written. Still, Ron Moore isn’t Scorsese, so best to use it as sparringly as possible.

      Dame Pasty:
      fuelpagan,
      Veltigar,
      If you’re wavering on the show or know of someone else who is, ep6 coming up this Saturday is universally being haled as one of the best on TV today by critics.That’s pretty high praise and I hope it lives up to it (I think it will, actually).Menzies is supposed to be fantastic as Black Jack and Catraina Balfe who has really been growing into the role of Claire takes it up another notch.

      Since I stuck around after the first two episodes, I’m along for the ride. And I had heard that episode 6 would be a gamechanger, so I’m really looking forward to it. I have no doubt that Menzies will do a bang up job. The acting so far has been excellent, there really isn’t anyone who stands out negatively.

      Dame Pasty:
      fuelpagan,
      Veltigar,
      In regards to The Knick I have been watching it and think it’s very good but dark, even darker than GoT probably because it’s set in our world and the state of medicine at that time as they show it is pretty accurate.I’m kind of squeamish though and end up looking through my fingers at a lot of the surgical scenes.But I can’t look away either, which is a good sign.

      Besides the outstanding acting, scripting and characters, I just love the directing. Soderbergh is doing some amazing work. I wish more people watched it.

        Quote  Reply

    126. Dame Pasty,

      Could work but would they have the ability to expedite those sort of emotions in him? Just seeing someone he doesn’t know tortured or treated badly wouldn’t have much effect on him IMO as he’s watched Ramsay torture and kill other women. I thought Beth was good because it makes him (and the viewer) remember the point where he became really “truly lost” (as Rodrick said!) and Beth combined with the Winterfell setting would stir in him a time when he was happy and also when he made a massive mistake. Either way it makes him remember he is Theon Greyjoy. Beth’s ties with a character that viewers will remember saves on a lot of effort in introducing and trying to give a reason for Theon caring what happens to someone else.

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    127. Ramsay’s coterie of murderous hipsters is one of the more irritating parts of the show (and the only bits that feel, somehow, modern), but it’ll be interesting to see if she becomes another Tansy (and/or ends up being helped by Theon…)

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    128. With all the episodes Ms Hope is possibly involved in, we should not discount that her character is

      Vale Myranda. Roose could send her there when he gets word of a girl somewhat the age of Sansa and tall (distinctive feature), to find out the truth. The Dreadfort has its spies too. Then we get Ms Kinky to teach Sansa sexy tricks, just like Myranda while becoming her confidant, Sansa needs a maiden/bff after all.
      The casual viewers then become worried for Sansa because they know Myranda is a Bolton and lethal.

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    129. Syd Vixious,

      Characters like Myranda are no more than featured extras, tertiary and secondary characters that exist to interact with already established major characters, so that they can have their backstory told or appear as a face we know for events that are only heard from in the books. And Myranda is not even as much of a character as Ros; she’s just a substitute for all of Ramsay’s “Bastard’s Boys”. These invented characters literally take NO time from the show that could be devoted to introducing new characters or storylines such as Euron and the plotline with the Greyjoy uncles. None of them have any “alone time” for the development of their own character that could be devoted to Euron or anyone else. Certainly, Myranda doesn’t.

      So: “Why are they casting this Myranda nobody? They should cast Euron instead!”. The answer is they are not having Myranda INSTEAD of Euron; he is not being REPLACED by random background characters, nor would any of them being cut allow for him to be properly introduced and developed.

        Quote  Reply

    130. The actress is very nice, I am happy with this news.

      OT: Why isn’t Penny one of the choices in the current poll about book characters we wish to see in the show? Is she hated that much?

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    131. I think she’s a fake fake Arya. They are going to substitute fat Walda for fake Arya in the “Theon feels sorry for a Bolton wife and is guilted into redeeming himself” subplot. The actress is too lovely in her brief intro scene and seems to have a fairly beefy role in Season 5 as well. Myranda is going to marry Ramsay as fake Arya to kick off the Jon Snow intervention and then either be gruesomely killed off or feature in some new subplot.

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    132. Alison:
      I think she’s a fake fake Arya. They are going to substitute fat Walda for fake Arya in the “Theon feels sorry for a Bolton wife and is guilted into redeeming himself” subplot. The actress is too lovely in her brief intro scene and seems to have a fairly beefy role in Season 5 as well. Myranda is going to marry Ramsay as fake Arya to kick off the Jon Snow intervention and then either be gruesomely killed off or feature in some new subplot.

      Why would Ramsay marry Myranda? Why would Roose allow him to? And how would that kick off Jon’s intervention? Why would Jon give a damn about Ramsay marrying some girlfriend of his?

        Quote  Reply

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