Major King’s Landing season 6 spoilers; Jeremy Podeswa and Pilou Asbæk interviewed

Girona-pic

The very last item in this post contains heavy spoilers for Game of Thrones season 6, so be forewarned if you intend to read that far down.

In an interview with The Credits, director Jeremy Podeswa has opened up about last season’s most controversial episode, “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken.” Here are some notable extracts:

There was a lot of outrage over Ramsay’s rape of in “Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken.” How did you feel about that?

[…]I think the way people perceive behavior is relative to the way they relate to the show and the arc of the series, and the longer the series goes on, the more people invest in these characters, and the more they care when terrible things happen to them.[…]

Let’s talk about some of your challenges in this episode, like creating the House of Black and White, and, specifically, the Hall of Faces.

[…]Everyone thinks we have unlimited resources, but we don’t. In the earliest discussions of what The Hall of Faces was going to look like, we agreed it had to be incredibly vast and spectacular, but then we feared we couldn’t do it properly with the resources we had, so there was talk to reduce the scope… So what we ended up doing is building pieces of the set, and then used effects for rest. We minimized the number of shots and angles because we realized if we could be very specific of how it was shot, we could be grand in vision.

 

PilouPilou Asbæk has also revealed more information on his upcoming role as Euron Greyjoy in an interview with Danish TV channel DR3. We have confirmed that these translations of the GoT-related questions and answers are accurate:

Q: Is Jon Snow dead?… Game of Thrones.
A: I have no idea, whatsoever.
Q: How was your reaction, when you were offered a role in GOT?
A: I thought: “Fuck yeah, man, I’m Euron Greyjoy, ironborn.”
Q: Do you have a sex scene in GOT?
A: I wish.
Q: Are you paid to keep your beard like that?
A: (Giggles) Nope, it’s free.
Q: Do you kill Reek?
A: (Confused) Reek?… No.

The video interview is new, and includes Pilou’s current look, so it looks like Euron will be wearing a mustache/mutton chops combo. No word on if he’s wearing a wig on the show or just his own hair.

MAJOR SEASON 6 SPOILERS BELOW.

 

Last week, we reported that the steps to Girona Cathedral had been booked for filming from September 11th through September 16th. We knew that it would be a big scene with 500 extras taking part, and would involve one major character riding on horseback. Thanks to our friends at Los Siete Reinos, we now have more concrete information on that scene.

At some stage in the season, there will be an interesting public confrontation in King’s Landing. A mounted Jaime Lannister, leading a troop of Tyrell soldiers in a demonstration of force, will march on the Sept of Baelor (presumably to demand Margaery’s release). At the steps leading to the sept, they will come to a halt. Surprisingly the Sparrows submit easily, and release Margaery, who appears to have become a devotee to the Seven and an instrument of the Faith. It’s not known if Margaery’s conversion is genuine or a ploy to get released.

This scene would seem to occur before Jaime heads off for the Riverlands. Note that the character motivations etc. behind the scene are unknown, but I think we can safely assume some things. What do you think?

330 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I think Lady Olenna speaks to Jamie about the situation, seeing Tyrell soldiers makes sense, tho I would Ser Kevan would thrown in so Lanisters and Gold Cloaks, he’s no fan of the way things are in KL.

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    2. Seems to suggest that Jaime will travel with Tyrell troops to recover the Riverlands. Also implies that Kevan will fix relations with Olenna, restoring the Lannister/Tyrell alliance, perhaps?

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    3. So Margaery is released and then my guess is Jamie is sent to the Riverlands to deal with the Brotherhood.

      Could be he meets with Brienne there since she might head South after concluding business in the North.

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    4. ….wait a minute. Jamie’s siding with the Tyrells?! I mean, I know we don’t know motivations and all, but is this the fulfillment of the Maggy the Frog prophesy (i.e. “…takes all that you hold dear,”)? Don’t tell me Marg is ACTUALLY the fulfillment of that prophesy! Lol. Wow. That would change a lot (in terms of theories), if it is.

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    5. As said in the other thread in which this news came up.

      I think Tommen orders this move. It’s either that, or this takes place after Olenna scolds Mace and it’s Mace ordering Jaime, but Tommen being done with not being abl to do something about it and ordering his uncle the Kingsguard to take a crack at it.

      Subsequently, I think the High Sparrow (in light of his “few and the many”-speech last season), knows that this show of arms by “the few”, in attendance of probably 500’ish smallfolk, against the sanctum of the Seven is fuel for a public rebellion against the few. He already let the smallfolk vent their anger towards Cersei and now he can play the victim-role to push the smallfolk over the edge.

      Than there’s the question of Margaery’s devoutness. If it’s a Lancel-deal, does she have to give up her title as Queen? That scenario will break the remains of the Lannister/Tyrell-alliance. If it isn’t, what beans did she spill to the High Sparrow that he found interesting enough to let her leave?

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    6. It is interesting to have Jaime leading Tyrell soldiers. So this must be his first big step in “officially” turning against his sister. The second would then be for him to leave KL. Just have to wonder what kind of scene the show will use to make Jaime finally decide to part with Cersei, if her Walk of Shame isn’t enough to convince him.

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    7. A few thoughts on this:

      1. Olenna could have threatened Jaime with war unless he secured Margaery’s release.
      2. Cersei’s not going to like this one bit. In fact, it’s strange to see Jaime going against what I assume would be Cersei’s wishes so publicly.
      3. Margaery is or is playing the penitent. (My money’s on the latter; I find it hard to believe that Margaery could be broken.) Cersei did that in ADWD. I wonder whether TV Cersei will be doing the same thing. It would be strange to have both of them playing the convert.
      4. What about Loras? 🙁

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    8. Ser Oromis Locke,

      I have a theory/speculation, that when Jaime see’s how Tommen suffers, he will decide to rescue Margaery, of course I also think Ollena will help, by providing Tyrell soldiers.

      This of course produces more rifts beatween Cersei and Jaime.

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    9. Jesus, is everyone and their dog going to be asked about Jon until the season premieres? Stupid interviewers insisting on asking the wrong question.

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    10. RosanaZugey: ….wait a minute. Jamie’s siding with the Tyrells?!

      Maybe Tommen implored him to do something about Margaery. Jaime, being in his new-found father mode, couldn’t refuse, regardless of what hysteria might come from Cersei.

      I’m still kind of hoping, tinfoil hat style, that Tyene slipped Bronn some antidote when she was delivering the Bad Pussy line, and Bronn got to Myrcella before she was totally dead. Sigh. I know … haven’t been paying attention blah blah…

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    11. I hope Jaime’s horse doesn’t slip and slide too much in the snow as he rides up the Great Sept of Baelor’s stairs.

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    12. Very interesting!!! Girona, WOW!!
      And Jon’s questions… Seriously stop, please!! Again, they’re asking the wrong question, people should not ask is he’s dead, because he definitely is, they must ask if they’re bringing him back…(I think the answer is a big YES)

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    13. It is not that strange, after all, Jaime is the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard and his queen is imprisoned, so, it seems very plausible for him to be the one after her release.

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    14. Releasing Margaery could be Jaime’s way of going full-on “fuck Cersei” after learning about the Lancel affair and seeing everything she’s done in his absence.

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    15. Phil Necro,

      He’s going to live for some time. if he dies it’s going to be around late season.

      What I mean that while he lives, he can easly do some things. Keep Trystane alive, as not to start war with Dorne, send Jaime to the riverlands, also I suspect that Olenna will be on the small council this year.

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    16. RosanaZugey,

      Lol. I think you’re right. Some said Tarly (myself included), others Tommen, others Dany. No Jaime if I recall correctly. But then there are so many threads and comments lately that I could be wrong. I didn’t read all of them.

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    17. Thronetender: Maybe Tommen implored him to do something about Margaery. Jaime, being in his new-found father mode, couldn’t refuse, regardless of what hysteria might come from Cersei.

      I’m still kind of hoping, tinfoil hat style, that Tyene slipped Bronn some antidote when she was delivering the Bad Pussy line, and Bronn got to Myrcella before she was totally dead.Sigh. I know … haven’t been paying attention blah blah…

      Hey! We can all dream, right? 😉

      I had a lengthy discussion with another poster one time (damn…I need to go back and look up her name. Give credit where credit is due) about Jamie turning on Cersei. When I initially read this news I thought that the other poster was right when she argued that Jamie finding out about Cersei sleeping with Lancel would be enough to turn him against her (I argued that it wasn’t); but now, reading your theory, Jamie acting the Father figure could do it as well. Would very much make sense in show canon.

      Btw, methinks Loras converted as well. Finn Jones did talk about stretching his acting and being a different character (or something to that effect). Perhaps they’ve both converted.

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    18. Hodor’s Bastard: I hope Jaime’s horse doesn’t slip and slide too much in the snow as he rides up the Great Sept of Baelor’s stairs

      You think Winter is already at Kings Landing? Hmm that’s interesting, all the portents of the coming biggest disaster aligning themselves, and no one can see beyond their own pride in order to do something constructive until wights are biting their assess.

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    19. The more I see of Pilou Asbæk the more I like his casting. Can’t wait for the ENERGY he will bring to the Ironborn plot. Please keep the blue lips and the dragonhorn as I think they are vital plot points and useful visual cues.

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    20. This sounds do weird to me????
      I mean it’s weird to me that kevan is still alive but this is some new shit.

      I get that this is all to drive cersei crazier so she ends up burning down kings landing but I don’t fucking like that they’re having margaery play the broken act and essentially giving her cersei’s characterization of ADWD.

      God I really hope TWOW is released before this shitshow. Then d&d could have Tyrion, dany and drogon have a threesome for all I care.

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    21. I don’t think that Jaime will turn against Cersei.
      My speculation is that after Myrcella’s death the Lannisters will want revenge. They can’t go to war with Dorne without Tyrell’s help. So they agree to help the Tyrells release Margery. But Margery’s conversion surprises everybody.

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    22. Tormund’s Woman:
      RosanaZugey,

      Lol. I think you’re right.Some said Tarly (myselfincluded), others Tommen, others Dany. No Jaime if I recall correctly. But then there are so many threads and comments lately that I could be wrong. I didn’t read all of them.

      I honestly thought it was going to be a flashback scene of Robert marching into KL or something. This Jamie news is…’whoa’.

      As a side, even though we’re all kind of ‘spoiled’ on some major events, I think the ‘fun’ in this (now) is to try and figure out context/motivation. THAT will be where the story is.

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    23. aurane waters,

      So you don’t think Margaery of all people in the books wouldn’t pretend to be really devout in order to free herself? How is this D&D fan fiction in any way?

      The nerve with some people… It may be vicious, but I’d rather TWOW not be released before the season so that some of these so-called fans won’t be able to know what they should like and what they shouldn’t. In the end, they’ll like what they’ll like and assume it’s faithful to the books, and they’ll assume anything they dislike is D&D’s invention.

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    24. Thronetender,

      Probably not that far south in the show. Will KL ever see a flake? But like Atlanta when 4 snowflakes fall from the cloudy sky, total panic ensues and much toilet paper and milk is reactively purchased. When the white raven doth appear, proceed up and down marble steps cautiously. 🙂

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    25. Just an idea, but Jaime is still Lord Commander of the Kingsguard so it’s kinda his duty to protect/free the queen. He’s also pretty big on being a member of the Kingsguard so maybe this isn’t so much about sticking it to Cersei (though I’m sure that might come into it) as it is him just doing his job.

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    26. Steve,

      It’s both, I imagine. Officially, nothing is wrong; as you said, he’s doing his job. However, let’s be real; if he was on “good” terms with Cersei (or what are good terms for Cersei; having him under her thumb), he wouldn’t ever do this.

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    27. Mihnea,

      Some people never learn.

      We are really being spoiled at the moment during the Spanish shoot. We know a lot more than I thought we might at this stage, even though they are trying to keep things quiet.

      I’m interested to see how they will fit everything together in Season 6 given the number of storylines they are including. And what about Trystane? I don’t think we’ve heard much about him.

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    28. aurane waters,

      Goodbye.

      Mihnea,

      I suspect an increased role for Kevan to compensate for a couple of characters not in the show. This news raises a lot of questions though. What about Loras? Who set Jaime up to do this? Are Olenna and/or Mace involved?

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    29. Jeb,

      Maybe he’s only shooting in the Titanic Studios, in the Red Keep sets. If Trystane is in the Small Council, but he doesn’t have that much of a role, it makes sense.

      Dutch Maester,

      It may be Tommen who tells Jaime to free Margaery, and Jaime continues with the acceptance of his fatherhood and does it for his son.

      EDIT: The edit button is back! Oh lord!

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    30. Luka Nieto,

      Seriously. Like, it’s not impossible to enjoy both as separate entities. I just read all of the books for the first time this past spring and got to the end of ADWD a few hours before Mother’s Mercy aired – so having experienced both sides, it’s actually quite fun to watch the show as a book reader or an unsullied. The differences just create two realities of the story and in my head, I just kinda plug in the plot points and such that I prefer from either the book or the show. It’s not a big deal.

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    31. Jeb,

      With Trystane I expect more indoor scenes, like small council meetings. So him not being sighted does not worry me. And if he dies, I don’t thin it will be by Jaime’s hands. You don’t kill the boy your duaghter loved..
      Neither by Kevan, wich I suspect to be in full controll of by the time Jaime returns, Kevan seams smart, I doubt he’ll risk war with Dorne.
      So that leaves Cersei…But here I don’t really know, on one hand, would she kill the boy her duaghter loved? On the other hand…..she is Cersei..

      In any situation, I expect him to leave the first half of S6. And I would not be suprised if he lives trough the season.

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    32. aurane waters: God I really hope TWOW is released before this shitshow. Then d&d could have Tyrion, dany and drogon have a threesome for all I care.

      Why are you watching this program? Honestly, do you seriously have nothing better to do with your time than decry this show on a website about the show? Read your books and enjoy them.

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    33. Mihnea:
      RosanaZugey,

      Being in the dark is amazing!!!
      Like it, that why I wont uy TWOW until the show is done.

      I really want to feel what my friends felt during the RW.

      Tell you the truth, I don’t want TWOW until the show is over. And that’s not necessarily so I can experience everything for the first time (I did that through the first 3 seasons anyways. Didn’t actually read the books till after S3), but because I don’t want to have to deal with another 3 years of comparing and complaining by individuals who prefer the books.

      I mean, I know some of the changes are a bit jarring (especially last season), but this is an exceptional show that strives to tell a COMPLEX story the best way it knows how. And I think its unfair to ignore some of those finer points and categorize the entire show as a clusterfuck of awful, simply because a few things have changed.

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    34. RosanaZugey: Jamie finding out about Cersei sleeping with Lancel would be enough to turn him against her (I argued that it wasn’t); but now, reading your theory, Jamie acting the Father figure could do it as well. Would very much make sense in show canon.

      I’m with you – I think he would forgive her that, even though he’s never been with anyone else. But, imho, the venom she spewed at him just before he left for Dorne, about him not ever having been a father, plus the heart-rending show of love and approval from Myrcella, would have him in super-protective, proactive Dad mode. He’ll show HER who’s a father to his children.

      Everyone is speaking of Jaime in terms of him being “ordered” to do something, which makes him seem kind of hapless. I think he’s finally becoming a man mentally, realizing that his life and position needs to mean greater deeds than having sex. He’s already shown that he cares somewhat about the populace, having prevented their incineration by the Mad King, and bearing the heat from that decision. That’s going to mean something as he finally matures, while Cersei degenerates.

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    35. Jeb: I actually thought that Loras might become a Sparrow, and some of Finn Jones’ comments seem to indicate a change in his character. Maybe that’s what gives Margaery the idea?

      I can’t imagine either Margaery *or* Loras converting to the Faith. Margaery is a cunning player of ‘the game’ and her converting is as believable as Cersei being penitent; neither will happen. Besides, all they need to do is lie their way out of the dungeons and let the Tyrell armies shepherd them away.

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    36. Mihnea,

      Could they possibly change Quentyn’s burning alive via dragons to Trystane being burned alive by Cersei? That would satisfy a Martell getting burned alive and Cersei burning shit in King’s Landing. Maybe she even burns him inside the Tower of the Hand.

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    37. Cameryn,

      It’s ridiculous. It’s not like anyone is forced to watch it. Hate it? Stop watching, don’t waste your time, focus on the books. Easy. It’s either masochists or trolls who stick to something they hate.

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    38. RosanaZugey,

      Fully agree with you. I don’t watch the show to compare it to the books. I watch it because it is an amazing TV-show, of wich I can’t say I ever saw before, and can stand on its own easly.

      Like the guys at CinemaSins, say: ”the books don’t metter”

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    39. Thronetender: Everyone is speaking of Jaime in terms of him being “ordered” to do something, which makes him seem kind of hapless. I think he’s finally becoming a man mentally, realizing that his life and position needs to mean greater deeds than having sex.

      This has been the true strength of Jaime’s transformation from the blowhard he was in the first episode to where he is now, and you’re absolutely right. Redemption is often one of the strongest themes of a story and nobody has been more on that path than Jaime. The only thing I’d say is that I’m a softie and I want to see Brienne and Jaime together. 🙂

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    40. Matt,

      I doubt it. For one, Cersei can’t do what she wants anymore, Kevan has control now, but who knows…..

      But I doubt Trystane will die this season. I suspect him playing a part in Dany’s invasion.

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    41. I think that Trystane must somehow return to Dorne, because I believe Doran’s plan will be Trystane’s marriage with Dany.

      How? I don’t know. Doran can send Ellaria’s head to KL and put Nym in the Small Council instead Trystane.

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    42. Thronetender: I’m with you – I think he would forgive her that, even though he’s never been with anyone else. But, imho,the venom she spewed at him just before he left for Dorne, about him not ever having been a father, plus the heart-rending show of love and approval from Myrcella, would have him insuper-protective, proactive Dad mode. He’ll show HER who’s a father to his children.

      Everyone is speaking of Jaime in terms of him being “ordered” to do something, which makes him seem kind of hapless.I think he’s finally becoming a man mentally, realizing that his life and position needs to mean greater deeds than having sex.He’s already shown that he cares somewhat about the populace, having prevented their incineration by the Mad King, and bearing the heat from that decision. That’s going to mean something as he finally matures, whileCersei degenerates.

      What a GREAT post! Damn. Thumbs up! 🙂 I don’t even have anything to add besides, “Yes. This.” 😉

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    43. Mihnea:
      Matt,

      I doubt it. For one, Cersei can’t do what she wants anymore, Kevan has control now, but who knows…..

      But I doubt Trystane will die this season. I suspect him playing a part in Dany’s invasion.

      This. I would prefer that, too. Dorne stuff needs to be beefed up, starting with Doran. He needs his motives revealed.

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    44. Matt:
      Mihnea,

      Could they possibly change Quentyn’s burning alive via dragons to Trystane being burned alive by Cersei? That would satisfy a Martell getting burned alive and Cersei burning shit in King’s Landing. Maybe she even burns him inside the Tower of the Hand.

      Cersei is completely powerless now. Kevan is the Hand, Jaime will make some moves in KL obviously, Olenna and Mace will be there. Margaery is THE queen.

      Cersei can’t do anything now.

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    45. mau: I think that Trystane must somehow return to Dorne, because I believe Doran’s plan will be Trystane’s marriage with Dany.

      How? I don’t know. Doran can send Ellaria’s head to KL and put Nym in the Small Council instead Trystane.

      My gut feeling is that Jaime won’t let Trystane die; he knows the boy would have had nothing to do with Myrcella’s death, and the Jaime from right now wouldn’t let someone be murdered as false retribution. If anything, I can see Cersei being talked into hold Trystane hostage in much the same way Ned Stark held Theon. My theory: Doran will sue for peace by offering Ellaria’s head, and that might lead into a mutiny by the Snakes.

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    46. mau: Cersei can’t do anything now.

      All due respect but I think this is perhaps the most incorrect statement ever made about Game of Thrones. 🙂

      Never count Cersei Lannister out of anything. 🙂

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    47. mau,

      You are right, concerning the current situation. However, we don’t know what will happen in the future. If Kevan’s death in ADWD results in chaos in the city concerning who has the real power, his death will be relevant to the story, which means it will probably happen in the show as well. Also, TWOW’s “Mercy” chapter implies Cersei has her power back.

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    48. While a converted book!Loras makes no sense at all (except everbody just pretends to be totally into the High Sparrow now), Willas is described as pious/a devote follower of The Seven in the books, so maybe still possible/necessary for show!Loras.

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    49. I can imagine Olenna (possibly via Mace) pressuring Jamie to do something about Margaery’s imprisonment – and threatening to order Tyrell troops to storm the Sept regardless.

      Jamie, as a Kingsguard (and not to mention as a reformed character who nowadays favours non-violent solutions) offers to parley with the Sparrows. Olenna insists the Tyrell troops accompany him, as both backup, and to keep the pressure on for a decisive result.

      The twist is that the Sparrows oblige, and Margaery is apparently converted.

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    50. mau: Cersei is completely powerless now.

      That’s not the impression I got as Cersei was being carried by Robert Strong after her walk. Chaos is coming. As Thronetender mentioned upthread, the interesting dynamic will be how Jaime rises to the occasion and Cersei spirals (in book and show).

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    51. Lady Mychelle:
      Marg is a Game player. through and through

      This.

      She really has no power base without her brother and Mace is a fool. Aligning with the Faith Militant could bring power with an easy exit if it fails, “they forced me”, so I see little cost to it. They did just majorly work over the Queen Regent. Cersie would call her weak but accept it.

      It will be very interesting to watch it play out.

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    52. It’s not surprising that Jaime is going to support Tyrells. He’s just lost his second child, and Tommen is the only one left (Tommen loves Margaery so…). Moreover, Tyrells seem to be better allies than Martells.
      Why do they release Margaery? Because her crimes are not as important as Cersei’s, because he symphatises with the poor (just like the High Sparrow), because Tyrell forces are stronger than Lannister at this point and because she might be willing to do more than Cersei to convince them she’s innocent. Personally, I think the High Sparrow also doesn’t like Cersei.
      As we know Lannister house needs some leader, and… SPOILER Jaime is the only one left. That’s why he’s the one to do whatever he can to strengthten the alliance with Tyrells.

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    53. Mihnea:
      Matt,

      While Ellaria’s fate is uncartain. I fully expect Doran to send the SS on some missions.

      I’m sure Doran will kill her and then tell SS “you fools, this is what I was planning all along ! ….”

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    54. As for Kevan, I think he can be killed by Varys in the show as well, but Varys doesn’t need to be there.

      He can send his creepy children, and they can make some kind of montage like in S3E6 (Ros), where Varys speaks with Tyrion and we then see dead Kevan.

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    55. mau,

      Hehe. I think I know why you don’t want Kevan to die early: he’s not big enough that we can expect him to have an enormous amount of screentime, yet Ian Gelder was stellar in the few scenes that he had in season five. I want to see much more of Kevan as well, especially not that he’s in power; however, since he’s a secondary or tertiary character, if we want to see a good number of scenes with him, he has to remain alive for a good while 😉

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    56. Interesting

      Jaimie sounded odd as a Lannister but then again it makes perfect sense if he is sent by Tommen as LC of the Kingsguard

      Good to finally see some diversity from the Lannister soldiers everywhere in KL, I mean, Mace goes to Braavos with KG and Lannister soldiers instead of his own Household Guard, go figure. That’s like Ned travelling around with Lannister guards instead of Stark guards

      Makes sense they would be Tyrell of course and not Gold Cloaks for example as they would want to be sending a power projection message

      Obviously there is some trick, Marge is an astute politician, could be her previous charity work helps her argument but on top of that the High Sparrow is super clever, he knew Cersei was probably lying but he basically destroyed her image and power with WoS without killing her so there may be merit in that he has genuinely turned Margaery

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    57. Cameryn,

      Do you expect someone with the username of some shitty filler character from AFFC to have any sense ? Honestly i can’t decide between which was the worst character,Darkstar or Waters,i’d say Waters because Darkstar didn’t appear as much,but holy shit were this characters awful ,thank god they are not in the show,they would make the Sand Snakes look good in comparison .

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    58. Lisa0527:
      Cameryn,

      Agree that Margery’s conversion is almost certainly a ploy to get released. But to give her some credit, I suspect she did it to save Loras as well.

      Did you see the High Sparrow’s eyes and demeanor as Cersei “confessed” and before her WoS? I believe the showrunners intentionally wanted us to know that the High Sparrow was cognizant of Cersei’s hypocrisy (especially after he quizzed her on her children’s actual father). He is totally onto her sham and her self-destruction. He will also be aware of Marg’s sham, and let her go as well, knowing full well that Cersei and Marg will probably destroy each other via their families. The High Sparrow only has to worry about surviving the chaos that is coming.

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    59. mau:
      As for Kevan, I think he can be killed by Varys in the show as well, but Varys doesn’t need to be there.

      He can send his creepy children, and they can make some kind of montage like in S3E6 (Ros), where Varys speaks with Tyrion and we then see dead Kevan.

      They can do this and logistically, they probably should. You can’t take a day trip between Meereen and KL. But unfortunately, it will dull the impact. Before, Varys wasn’t killing people to gain power. He was manipulating others into doing violent things. For the first time, he has literal blood on his hands. It closed ADWD with the sense that something was building, shit was going to hit fan. It’s also a big character for Varys. This move must really mean something to him if he’s doing it himself.

      They traded this moment for the potential fun and intrigue of Tyrion and Varys shaking up the political scene in Slaver’s Bay. That’s fair enough. That arc moves at a snail’s pace in the books and I think the show needed to spice things up a bit, but there’s always those cons to changing things.

        Quote  Reply

    60. mau,

      Exactly. Kevan was great last season, in particular of course in his explosive Small Council scene, so I’d like him to interact with a number of characters before kicking the bucket.

        Quote  Reply

    61. My theory is that bc of Myrcella’s death, he will probably move on to Tommen and he will probably will try to save Margaery so he can be her savior, and look good in Tommen’s eyes.
      Boojam,

        Quote  Reply

    62. weirwoodtreehugger,

      But, realistically it doesn’t make sense for Varys to personally kill Kevan in the books if he has so many employees.

      I think in this version he can look even more powerful. Killing the Hand from the distance.

      I’m sure that Kevan will die, but maybe Cersei kills him in the show? I still think that Varys is the best option from story perspective.

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    63. Damn it, I knew it.
      Ever since Cersei made that remark

      about people often going mad in the black cells beneath the Red Keep, I’ve been dreading the moment Margaery snaps.
      So there goes one of my faves. Even death would have been preferable to zealotry, but what can you do …

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    64. Queen Regent cunt had this coming. Once Jaime learns of her disloyalty to him he will turn his back. “Lancel, Osney Kettleblack, and fucking Moonboy for all I know.”

        Quote  Reply

    65. So this pretty much means Randyll Tarly will not be in KL, at least early on. I guess we can expect to see Sam and Gilly in Horn Hill during the first half of S6. I wonder what they’ll do with Randyll afterwards – send him to KL or have him defend the Reach/Oldtown… or perhaps he goes to KL and then back to the Reach when word of Ironborn invasion reaches him?

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    66. Piotr,

      The High Sparrow told Cersei that lying to the Gods is a higher crime. That’s what Margeary did.

      Also the Lannisters will need Tyrell’s help if they want to take revenge for Myrcella’s death. So I see both Jaime and Cersei agreeing to this.

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    67. Podeswa once again said nothing of substance about the Sansa/Ramsay scene, and once again …I think the rationalization going around on set is “well Jaime pushed Bran out a window”….yeah, in the novels, and that wasn’t a sexual assault but semi-justifiable in context (if Bran told what he saw Jaime was dead)……

      not that I expect Podeswa to say anything though, in his previous YahooTV interview he politely pointed out that it wasn’t his idea to do this at all, he just films what is in the scripts. So this is just him fumbling for answers we shouldn’t be asking him for in the first place — where the heck are Benioff and Weiss?

        Quote  Reply

    68. MG,

      I have a feeling revange is the last thing Jaime wants. Cersei yeah, but I don’t think revange is what Jaime want or about what his story will be about.

        Quote  Reply

    69. RosanaZugey,

      A Bobby flashback?! THAT would have been a shock. The show has avoided flashbacks for a long time. It would have had to be very important to the story to have king Bobby in one 😀

      I’ll be honest, I’m not sure how spoiled we are. I suppose it is all in how one thinks of spoilers. Some “spoilers” seem to be differences from the source rather than outright spoilers for Winds. Jamie getting Marge out is definitely in a difference from the source category.

      I think this one, coming on top of “not bringing Myrcella home safe” is what it will take for the Cersei/Jaime relationship to break which until now has not happened in the show. No Cersei cheating with the Kettlebacks will need to be made up for and his sister will never forgive him for getting Margery out of the HS’s grasp.

      Jon Snow alive and beating the Boltons though is a holy crap spoiler though. I suspected him being alive. Him STILL going after Ramsay… no.

      EDIT: CONGRATS! EDIT BUTTON CONFIRMED!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    70. The Dragon Demands,

      Aren’t you supposed to take care of your totally “non biased” wiki instead of trying to make up pointless arguments no one cares about anymore . Also the showrunners nor anyone involved in the show are obliged to explain themselves to you,sorry to ruin your fantasy .

        Quote  Reply

    71. The Dragon Demands,

      What “of substance” should he say, exactly? Neither the director nor the showrunners owe anyone an explanation, and certainly not you. D&D have often explicitly said they don’t like to explain themselves, and they aren’t the only authors who do this. Art speaks for itself; if you don’t like it, that’s fine. But do get over it. These scenes you are obsessed with don’t need an explanation; yet somehow, you’re still under the strange delusion that, for example, the show didn’t “explain” why Thorne killed Jon after leting him in, among other things. Oh well. This obsession of yours can’t possibly be healthy… Give it a rest, man.

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    72. It’d be a deviation from the books obviously, but does anyone think Margaery could be revealed as pregnant, which is why the High Sparrow is willing to release her. D&D have now removed Stannis, Myrcella and ‘YG’ (seemingly) from the story early, meaning the only other real claimant to the throne is Daenerys. What would happen if Tommen died now? There’s no heir. So if Margaery turns out to be pregnant, suddenly her survival and protection would be a number one priority for everyone, including Jaime. And of course, given Margaery has been locked up and visited only by septas all this time, the child would indisputably have to be Tommen’s from before she was arrested. It would give Cersei a chance to subtly claim it was Loras’ child somehow, too.

        Quote  Reply

    73. MG,

      I think he may just want to take care of Tommen. Most people don’t go on a murder spree after they loose someone they love. Most of the times they may just want to go on. This is especially the case of parents with multiple children, when one dies, they focus all their attention on the one that is still alive.

      It could happen. But I find it against Jaime’s character to go on a murder spree. And with the info of him going to the riverlands, I suspect I’m correct.

      Now Cersei…. This is another question entirely.

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    74. I was too happy for the EDIT button return so I jinx it.

      Sends comment to “awaiting moderation” I think. Just making a note in case anyone wants to know if it works.

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    75. I heard Loras will be sentenced to serve seven years at the wall as penance for the seven gods he “offended” with his transgressions. Mace will order 1,000 Tyrell banner men to serve at the wall with Loras while he is there to insure he is immediately voted in as Lord Commander or at the least so he has a lot of backup. On his way to The Wall he will stop in the Riverlands and meet the Hound he will fill him in on everything that is happening at Kings Landing including some information about Ser Robert Strong.

      Loras upon arriving at the Wall will immediately being exerting his power over whoever the current Lord Commander is. He will start talking of making major changes to the Watch such as the no sex rule in order to gain favor with new recruits. He will challenge Ser Allistor to single combat at some point and slay him leading to a new vote. Loras will then raise a new order called the Rose Crows and they are to be his personal guard consisting of the best and bravest soldiers at The Wall. Dolorious Edd will be among them.

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    76. mau,

      He should say, ” get the F over it people. we are telling a fantasy story that includes themes involving power, violence, and sex, sometimes at extreme sides of the spectrum. But it’s our story so please let us tell it. When filming that scene we don’t expect our audience to approve of heinous acts committed by a villain but the act is important to draw on the audiences emotions to have a greater impact later involving how we feel about all 3 characters involved. Now please stop asking me about the damn rape scene, thank you.”

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    77. MG,

      I know but Jaime going on a murder spree, would meen him going back to Dorne, and I think that part is done.
      I trully expect too see a more mature Jaime this year, him taking care of Tommen, going to the riverlands,….etc.

      Don’t get me wrong, I think there will be a Lannister/Martell, I just don’t see Jaime taking part in it.

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    78. I also wonder whether Margaery will end up having to sell out her brother to save herself. They’ve said Margaery will be released, but that doesn’t mean there won’t still be a trial. Same as Cersei.

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    79. Tormund’s Woman,
      The edit button isn’t causing things to go into moderation. There are several other things that trigger it and so far yours is one of the few that went into moderation. We try to approve those (if appropriate) as soon as possible. You should see your comment now.

      PS: Sue just informed me that it is the apostrophe in your name. Names aren’t supposed to have them but we didn’t enforce it before but we recently changed a setting that now enforces it. Just take the apostrophe out and you should be all good.

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    80. @ Throbbing Strong

      That would be a fucking awesome Loras storyline as far as this fangirl is concerned, well, except for the 999th Lord Commander part, because, well, we all know there has to be a 1000th in the story. Oh, wait, it’s a limited term? Hope springs eternal.

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    81. Throbbing Strong: I heard Loras will be sentenced to serve seven years at the wall as penance for the seven gods he “offended” with his transgressions.

      You heard…? Sounds more like you just made all that up. Also, that’s not how the Wall works. It’s only ever a life sentence.

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    82. The Dragon Demands:
      Podeswa once again said nothing of substance about the Sansa/Ramsay scene, and once again …I think the rationalization going around on set is “well Jaime pushed Bran out a window”….yeah, in the novels, and that wasn’t a sexual assault but semi-justifiable in context (if Bran told what he saw Jaime was dead)……

      not that I expect Podeswa to say anything though, in his previous YahooTV interview he politely pointed out that it wasn’t his idea to do this at all, he just films what is in the scripts.So this is just him fumbling for answers we shouldn’t be asking him for in the first place — where the heck are Benioff and Weiss?

      I don’t imagine any of them will say anything “substantial” about it till after the show is over. In the end, they might not need to say anything about it as we will see/know what purpose it ultimately served in the following 3 seasons. For example, all throughout season 4, I was confused as to why it was never brought up (to Arya) that Sansa had married Tyrion. It was confusing because personally, I kind of thought it was important that Arya knew. She didn’t, and as of S5E10, she still doesn’t know. But, she’ll know in this next season, and if by chance the knowledge of that serves as a catalyst to bring her back to Westeros, then now I’ll know why they ‘saved’ that information for 2 seasons.

      I think we–as viewers–tend to look at this story as SXE1-10. D&D look at this story as S1-S8. So, what might not make sense to us in any particular season…might end up making plenty of sense in subsequent seasons. We just have to “Wait for it…………..”

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    83. Mihnea,

      I don’t think that he’ll take part either. But helping the Tyrells in order to get help for whatever happens with the Martells… it’s possible. Both him and Cersei love Myrcella and Tommen.

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    84. Jaime will definitely be sent to liberate Margaery by Tommen. It’s not only his duty, as the Commander of Kingsguard to obey his King, first and foremost, but I think that after seeing his Daughter die in his arms, he will also feel he owns this to his son, as a father.

      This also makes sense, given Tommen’s arch. He has been potrayed as a sweet little boy frightened of his older brother in the books, and a meek teenager in the series, but I suspect this will change before his arch is done.

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    85. You heard…? Sounds more like you just made all that up. Also, that’s not how the Wall works. It’s only ever a life sentence.

      Well, yeah, I think Throbbing Strong (!) might have just hacked into my unfinished fanfiction folder. I quite like their additions though. All that’s needed now is some Loras/Zombie!Jon* slash to go with it.

      ( *This pervert slashgirl just scared herself)

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    86. Dame Pasty,

      I see it. Thanks, Dame!

      It was weird. Comment showed fine when I posted first, and 1 min later when I went to edit because I actually SAW the edit button, bam! Once I hit saved went straight to “awaiting moderation”. So I thought it could be that. Frankly I’m happy that’s not the problem. So many of us EDIT our comments…

      Appreciate the heads up on the apostrophe too. Changed it.

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    87. MG,

      The Tyrells will have problems with Ironborn soon, and I think Jaime doesn’t want an outright war. especially now, a war with Dorne would be madness, and with Margaery and Loras in the Faith’s hands, I doubt the Tyrell would be interested in fighting the Martell’s, especially when they themselves lost nothing.
      Neither Kevan I suspect, who now at least holds control of the Western army.

      I don’t really think, ”revenge for Myrcella” will result in open conflict. Will it break Jaime from Cersei, this is what I think. And who knows what Trystane’s reaction will be.

      But will see what happens, this is just my speculation, from the information we curently have.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Mihnea:
      MG,

      The Tyrells will have problems with Ironborn soon,

      And they foreshadowed that in S4.

      Tywin Lannister to Tommen: Yes. But what is wisdom? A house with great wealth and fertile lands asks you for your protection against another house with a strong navy that could one day oppose you.

        Quote  Reply

    89. mau,

      Sort of: Tommen does not have the same dilemma as Tywin suggests because the Greyjoys are in rebellion against the Iron Throne, and the Tyrells probably are not. So, there is not a problem about chosing sides because he already is at war with one side.

      And if the Tyrells are in rebellion by then, an orthogonal question arises: when two enemies are at war, how much do you play both sides against each other?

        Quote  Reply

    90. mau,

      And I have my theory, that they kept Balon alive so he can have scenes with Euron, I mean come on, Balon is the only man Euron followed, as he himself say’s.
      Just imagine the posibilities!!

        Quote  Reply

    91. aurane waters,

      Well you are free to like or dislike what you please; well liking/disliking is instinctive anyway but maybe the forums might be a more suitable place for the discussion.

      Thronetender: I’m still kind of hoping, tinfoil hat style, that Tyene slipped Bronn some antidote when she was delivering the Bad Pussy line, and Bronn got to Myrcella before she was totally dead. Sigh. I know … haven’t been paying attention blah blah…

      I feel that way too, Thronetender. I don’t want to be spoilery but the book Sand Snakes don’t try to hurt Myrcella (unless they do so in an unreleased as yet book). But of course as they say nobody is safe in GoT.

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    92. mau,

      Nym was party to Ellaria’s murder plot. She and the other Snakes would also be on the chopping block if Doran is trying to appease KL over Myrcella’s murder, and she definitely couldn’t be sent to take up a seat on the small council.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Mihnea,

      I think those scenes would be great, but I’m not sure they have the time, sadly.

      I think we won’t see balon at all in S6. It will be like AFFC. We will find out that he died.

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    94. Schrödinger’s Cat: You heard…? Sounds more like you just made all that up. Also, that’s not how the Wall works. It’s only ever a life sentence.

      It’s a T.V. show st**** They can do whatever they want. Even in the books they can change things up if they wanted. Jesus Christ try to have an imagination. They could make a special exception for High Lords sons this is a fucking fantasy you act like this is way out of the realm of possibility based on your own lack of an imagination.

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    95. 1. Margaery possibly being pregnant: if Margaery is doomed in the books, it hardly matters if TV Margaery gets knocked up (like Talisa getting pregnant).
      2. Margaery possibly converting for real: I could see Margaery being broken by the Faith. I don’t think she’s as mentally tough as Cersei or Sansa. She pretty much completely went to pieces the moment Loras was arrested and when she was arrested herself.
      3. Trystane and Jaime: I think if Jaime believed that Trystane genuinely loved Myrcella, mourned her deeply, and had nothing to do with her death, he might cut him some slack. How likely is that, though? Jaime’s no fool, and TV Trystane never impressed me as being deeply in love with Myrcella (although whether that was the intended effect or just the result of poor acting/writing is difficult to say).
      4. Loras: I guess it depends what happens with Book Loras. I thought TV Loras might be used to “double” for the Tyrell siblings who didn’t make it to the show (Willas and Garlan) and so might wind up going off to Highgarden or what have you. I can’t imagine him escaping punishment that easily. Also, seeing what they did to homosexuals at the brothel, I wonder whether Loras will get the Reek/Varys treatment. That would really make Olenna hit the roof (since it would make the main branch of TV Tyrells extinct in the male line).
      5. Podeswa: Why does he keep getting asked about the rape scene as if it was his idea? Director =/= writer.
      6. KL arc: So Margaery is released (pending trial, presumably), Cersei is released (pending trial as well?), Olenna and Mace are in town, Kevan’s alive, Pycelle’s alive, Robert Strong’s in play, the Tyrell soldiers are in town, and Jaime peaces out to the Riverlands with Bronn at some point. Sounds like a pretty potent brew.
      7. Dorne: Areo’s actor made it sound as if he would have a very limited role in Season 6 (commenting about the fact that he got his material much later than the other actors or something along those lines). Doran has threatened Ellaria before. If he learns of her role in Myrcella’s murder–and I don’t see how he wouldn’t–he’d probably feel he’d have no choice but to execute her. I doubt he would execute Oberyn’s daughters, though, no matter what they did.

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    96. I want the horse jamies riding to drop a nice deuce on the way up the steps, just like tywins did walking into the RK after blackwater. It’s the little things

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    97. Wimsey,

      I think we can all agree the Nights Watch has numerous inherent flaws. #1 being the no sex thing. If they could change their image up maybe southron nobodies and wayward swordsmen with nothing better to do would start signing up voluntarily if they could agree to serve a temporary amount of years to achieve some kind of honor as a ranger and then leave and tell the tales they encountered.
      This could lead other people to want to enlist to attain the same thing. In this world having stories to tell about your courageous adventures is all the average non farmer has. Thats why Jon Snow joined. Loras could give them a sound marketing campaign they sorely need.

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    98. Given Pilou’s previous role as a Eurovision host, I expect the Euron/Eurovision jokes to flow fast and furious next year. Don’t disappoint me, fandom!

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    99. Wonderful scoop, WotW! I never, ever would’ve guessed it! Haven’t read the comments, but I think fatherhood having been recently awakened in Jaime by Myrcella, he focuses ALL his love on Tommen, who begs him to free his wife and her brother. 😀 Jaime abandons The Mad One, who loses all her children, and is replaced in their hearts by a more beautiful queen. What poetic justice! I am gonna enjoy The Mad One’s further descent into madness. 🙂

      EDIT: Edit button’s back! Today is a good day!

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    100. aurane waters:
      This sounds do weird to me????
      I mean it’s weird to me that kevan is still alive but this is some new shit.

      I get that this is all to drive cersei crazier so she ends up burning down kings landing but I don’t fucking like that they’re having margaery play the broken act and essentially giving her cersei’s characterization of ADWD.

      God I really hope TWOW is released before this shitshow. Then d&d could have Tyrion, dany and drogon have a threesome for all I care.

      Bookwankers out in full force again.

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    101. FYI WotW, I visit your mobile site via chrome on a note4 and the site seems unstable, always bopping around the page, slow to load, full page advertising, advertising that opens new tabs. If it wasn’t for my insane love of GoT/ASOIAF I wouldnt bother

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    102. MG,

      I imagine he’ll be gone to the Riverlands before the trial. In the books, Jaime’s refusal to help Cersei was done through correspondance; in the show, it will be done directly, which always works better on-screen.

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    103. Mihnea,

      I wasn’t saying that he will kill the Snakes, but there’s no plausible version of events where KL doesn’t demand that as the price for peace. Nobody would or should believe the problem was limited to Ellaria, given what had already transpired.

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    104. Luka Nieto,

      I’m not talking about helping her. I’m talking about her facing a trial because of their relationship and Jamie being in KL without any problem at all. Isn’t it there a risk for him getting arrested?

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    105. Shouldn’t the Sand Snakes and Ellaria be in hiding right now? I mean Doran said he would kill Ellaria if she didn’t get in line and she completely fucked him over. Doran is now powerless. I can’t imagine the Sand Snakes just walking around Dorne knowing Doran will want to punish them for putting his son in danger.

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    106. Sean C.,

      But they don’t have any proof that it wasn’t only limited to Ellaria.

      To be honest, I don’t know why they bothered to introduce SS at all and what will they do in S6.

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    107. I love the idea some have suggested of Jaime springing Margaery at Tommen’s behest, thus putting trying to do something for his son before what Cersei wants.

      Throbbing Strong,

      You heard? Did this come from the same mysterious website where you obtained D&D’s “original plan” for Sansa’s wedding?

      Hahahahaha.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Sean C.,

      KL is in no position to demend anything. Doran says Ellaria did it, he kills her. There done. Seriously, no one wants war with Dorne, even less when the Ironborn invade. So the crown demending anything of Dorne is imposible.

      Another option, Doran simply lies, telling KL he killed the SS, while in truth he sended them on missions.

      I truly think you are overthinking this things, and thinking of most of these in a very bureaucratic menner. You truly think the crown has the power to demend anything from Dorne?

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    109. Mihnea,

      But SS and their missions are so unimportant. I’m really struggling to see their place in this story.

      They must go to KL or Meereen. Anything else is to unimportant for teh show.

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    110. MG,
      mau,

      You’re right. I’d momentarily forgotten that, somehow.

      So maybe Jaime goes away not only to refuse Cersei but to avoid troubles with the Faith.

        Quote  Reply

    111. mau,

      My guess, is they will help Dany take KL the same way they plan to do it for Griff in the books. But thats, the season Daby invades, not this….So who knows.

      Will see, but I have complete faith in the writers, so I don’t worry. If they are in the show they have a part to play.

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    112. Jamie finally had a touching scene with his daughter where they both know what is going on. She then dies in his arms.

      Jaime, at this point has one kid left, and likely is not too happy with Cersei. He probably also blames her for killing his dad, (because she forced the issue so much).

      He then finds out about Robert strong and how Fed up she really is. One would think that the Lannister guards were loyal to him, but hey maybe not? Who else can you go to for help. Maybe he wants to free Tommen from her grasp, and the only way to to so is with the help of the Queen of thorns, and her condition for help is to get her family out of prison…

      It makes no sense that Jamie is leading a Tyrell group of men. The only way they would follow him is if they were commanded to do so, and the only way i see that happening is if he completley turns on Cersei.

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    113. It’s weird with the Sand Snakes. I was sure they included them in the show because they are going to play important roles in the books (with both Nymeria and Tyene in King’s Landing, one of them in the Small Council) but with the change to Trystante getting Nymeria’s sit on the council and then also having the Snakes ruin Doran’s game by murdering Myrcella… I just don’t get what the plan is now.

      Would Doran really trust them to send them in missions after what they did last season?

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    114. Hi-Fi,

      I’m expecting Doran will explain his plan, and mostly order them around. And with the promise off blood against the Lannister I see no reason for the SS to betrey him.

      And even then he would not kill them, those are his brothers duaghters. There is no way he will ever hurt them.

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    115. Mihnea,

      Oh, I never thought he could hurt them (though Ellaria is done), but trust them after they went againg him twice? And after he punishes Tyene’s mother? I don’t know about that.

      I’ve always thought

      Nymeria would kill Robert Strong in the books once she finds out he’s Gregor Clegane

      .

      EDIT: how to make spoiler tags again?

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    116. mau,

      Presumably they’ll be Doran’s instruments in whatever his machinations are in the show, since he’s wheelchair-bound and all. However, I too am baffled that none of the Sand Snakes were sent to King’s Landing by the end of last season. I guess we’ll see if that changes early in season six, when Doran inevitably punishes / executes Ellaria and reveals his plans to the Sand Snakes.

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    117. when jamie returns from dorne with myrcella dead (or alive?), cersei will go apeshit. but he’s still captain of the kingsguard so he’d be humiliated again if he let the queen be held captive. cool stuff

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    118. Hi-Fi:

      Would Doran really trust them to send them in missions after what they did last season?

      EDIT: Yikes, spoiler code doesn’t seem to be working. Skip my post if you don’t want to read my speculation.

      I’m now wondering if

      Doran might send two Snakes to Varys/Dany in Meereen on a mission. The Snakes try to steal Rhaegal and Viserion (maybe in disobedience), with one burned to death when the dragons get loose, thus fulfilling Quentyn’s storyline from the books. The third Snake, maybe to KL to help Trystane or get him out of the city maybe? Areo could be sent to find Ellaria, who’s now a fugitive, and that covers the Darkstar subplot.

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    119. If Marge’s conversion is genuine, she would confess to the HS Olenna’s involvement in Joffrey’s murder, like Lancel confessed Cersei’s crimes. That would be a nuclear bomb on the Lannister-Tyrell “alliance”. When Cersei will know, she will kill them all and it would be chaosh and blood and war in the streets like never before, not even during the Dance. That would be fun.

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    120. Jaime is Kingsguard. If Tommen asks him then he’ll make every effort to get Marg out especially as he’ll still be sore from the loss of Myrcella. Plus, he’s getting a lot wiser and a breakdown in the Tyrell/Lannister alliance would be the end of both of them…plus he perhaps hopes for some vengeance on Dorne and the Martells whom the Tyrells aren’t too fond of.

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    121. Yeah, I’m still not sold on this J O as euron. I really hope he turns me into a believer though with blue lips and all

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    122. lol ok I think that something is “weird” so I should just stud?? Get a grip guys, I’m allowed to voice my opinion just as Nicholas everyone else without being insulted “bookwanker”. This isn’t 4th fucking grade.And it’s perfectly reasonable to want to experience TWOW before season 6.

      I just don’t really understand why d&d had to stretch out the tyrells being released, that should have happened last season IMO. I’m also just curious where Cersei registers in all this. Her just sitting around and letting all this happen doesn’t seem very in character to me.

      As far as Margaery is concerned, my guess is that it’s manipulation but with her there’s a chance that she’s truly broken while I don’t think cersei could ever be truly broken.

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    123. lalla:

      I even doubt Ellaria will try to run.

      Good point. TV Ellaria is pretty brazen. She might get in Doran’s face to declare what she did and not even care about hiding it.

      While anybody can free Rhaegal and Viserion, in the basic book plot they are freed because of a Martell’s actions. If there is no Quentyn in the show, the Snakes are the next best candidates to let the dragons loose. Besides Meereen and Trystane in KL, I can’t imagine any other subplot the trio can logically end up in.

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    124. I’m confused by Dorne. The reader was meant to kind of root for Arianne and the Queenmaker plot and they the SS , etc were presented as being justifiably angry about Oberyn.
      The show has made the Dornish faction wholly unlikeable as they’ve killed a innocent girl for revenge. Now I don’t know if this was meant to be done to make them cool/ruthless and endearing to the viewer but it hasn’t worked. They’re characters who’ve done vile things but fail to endear themselves where other characters who’ve committed similar actions do because they have zero charisma. I can see problems with the allying with Dany. A lot of the fanbase are already tiring with her and if they want to present her as the character you root for then allying her with this bunch is going to send it further into the undesirable direction. At this point, I’m wanting the Lannister/Tyrell alliance to hold the Throne as Dany’s forces are just not that likeable! I mean the LannisTyrells aren’t either but we’re not meant to like them!

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    125. aurane waters,

      I agree with u about a chance of margery being broken bc of what she said to cersei when she came to visit her in the blackcells. She’s new to this while cerseis true to this. I can see her break, but not guaranteeing it

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    126. aurane waters,

      Marge is not broken. She will do anything to remain THE Queen. Cersei is broken though after the Walk which will leave room for Jaime to take over and try to prove himself as a leader. Lannisters and Tyrells vs the FM makes sense. I suppose Cersei will not be able to be a bitch towards Jaime when he comes back with Myrcela’s corpse. I can see a kind of atonement from both sides in order to save what they can. It is Jaime’s turn to prove his leadership skills and that will work for a while. On the other hand the Tyrells cannot afford a war with Lannisters so they will try to find more diplomatic ways to coexist with them and to cope with the FM. All this fragile balance can be exploded with Tommen’s death possibly when Jaime is already on his way to RLs to tackle with the rebels. I think it makes sense to see the first half of S6 in KL as a means to put an order in the chaos only to prove that this effort is futile in the second half steering the capital to its final demise.

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    127. aurane waters,

      It’s not the fact that you voice your opinion that is the problem,it’s the way you do it which rubs people the wrong way . There are opinions and then there are posts like yours which comes across as flame bait to me . And speaking of 4rd grade,using terms like “shitshow” because you don’t like something seems to be the exact description which you fit in . You don’t see people like Sean C or TheTouchOfFrost which are two pretty frequent critics of the show,stoop to that level .

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    128. TheTouchOfFrost,

      It is not a matter of being likeable or not. What is puzzling is what will they do in the aftermath of Myrcella’s death. We are talking about 4 characters. At the same time the big question is what Trystane will do in S6 at KL. I have a suspicion that Doran was in charge of Myrcella’s death. If he wasn’t then to be just an isolated figure in Dorne trying to find and kill Ellaria is just not very plausible. It just doesn’t make sense considering the fact that he was hyped to reveal a big plan…

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    129. TheTouchOfFrost,

      Rooting for Arrienne is nearly impossible. She is simply so naive, spolied, stupid. She trough her actions, is the proof that she was right, Doran should have replaced her. Or give her some serious lections.

      I was always against this concept of ”rooting”. (One of my major complain with ADWD, with Stannis starting to make jokes and quips about Robert, Asha,..etc.)
      You are not suppose to like or ”root” for the SS/Dorne (or any story/character for that metter). It is simply a small piece of the bigger story. The SS will do whatever they will do, same with Dorne’s story.

      But the writers, especially here on GOT, won’t change a characters story because people like him, Stannis being the perfect example, or because people don’t like it, Dorne being a good example.
      Will they listen to criticism? I expect they themselves are the bigest critics of their work, so I suspect there will be more scenes with the characters to get too know them better.(with most of filming in Spain I expect much more Dorne now)
      Will they listen to the people who say kill the SS because they don’t like them? No. They will write Dorne’s story as they see fit, they will not try to make you ”root” for anyone, or like anyone. They will simply tell the story they want, and then you decide what part you liked, what you didn’t.

      P.S. This is not directed directly at you, but I simply can’t stand this principle of ”rooting” for a character, as most times it brings only dissapointment and anger.(Perfect examples are Robb, and Stannis.)

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    130. God of tits and wine,

      It would actually be more interesting if she broke IMO. It would change the dynamic between her and tommen and serve to contrast her and cersei. I mean margaery already kind of broke in season 5 with cersei having loras imprisoned, so it’s very plausible that she would break further after being imprisoned so long IMO.

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    131. dothrakian raven:
      aurane waters,

      Marge is not broken. She will do anything to remain THE Queen. Cersei is broken though after the Walk which will leave room for Jaime to take over and try to prove himself as a leader. Lannisters and Tyrells vs the FM makes sense. I suppose Cersei will not be able to be a bitch towards Jaime when he comes back with Myrcela’s corpse. I can see a kind of atonement from both sides in order to save what they can. It is Jaime’s turn to prove his leadership skills and that will work for a while. On the other hand the Tyrells cannot afford a war with Lannisters so they will try to find more diplomatic ways to coexist with them and to cope with the FM. All this fragile balance can be exploded with Tommen’s death possibly when Jaime is already on his way to RLs to tackle with the rebels. I think it makes sense to see the first half of S6 in KL as a means to put an order in the chaos only to prove that this effort is futile in the second half steering the capital to its final demise.

      I completely disagree, I think cersei is very hurt and traumatized but broken she is not imo. I feel like that was proven with how she lied to the Hugh sparrow and her face when frankenmountain picks her up.

      I do think it’s more likely that margaery is pretending to be broken, but I could also easily see her actually being broken because of how they portrayed her in season 5.

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    132. Ahhh, this is a smart way to make Cersei’s decision to turn on her brother and send him away believable after this whole side-plot that never happens in the books.

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    133. Mihnea: Doran says Ellaria did it, he kills her. There done.

      I would doubt that Ellaria is going back to Doran! One of our questions should be: where are Ellaria and the SS going? I had assumed Young Griff, but as they seem to be cutting that plotline, it must be somewhere else.

      I now wonder if they will be fleeing to Euron or perhaps the Riverlands or something like that. Of course, they might flee east to Daeny, too: as Lannister-killers and relations by marriage, they might expect her to welcome them.

      Regardless, I would be really surprised if they let Doran capture them. If nothing else, the Ellaria would not have taken the antidote if all she was doing was postponing certain death.

      TheTouchOfFrost: I’m confused by Dorne. The reader was meant to kind of root for Arianne and the Queenmaker plot and they the SS , etc were presented as being justifiably angry about Oberyn.

      Where we really? A big reason for the Dorne hate was people finding Arianne to be an unlikeable spoiled and unthinking brat. She was not exactly set up as a sympathetic figure: her selfish and demanding thoughts even managed to make her look greedy and vain even when, objectively, one might agree that she was in the right.

      lalla: If Marge’s conversion is genuine, she would confess to the HS Olenna’s involvement in Joffrey’s murder, like Lancel confessed Cersei’s crimes.

      Probably not. Lancell ratted on Cersei only after LF told the High Sparrow what questions to ask. Remember, the greatest “sin” to the Westerosi nobility is to betray your family: and that would be a hard thing to overcome. Margaery might confess her own sins, but she would not confess the sins of other people.

      And, of course, it is even more probable that Marg is doing what is expedient: she will be as religious as she needs to be.

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    134. mau: like Varys, Tyrion, Dany, Jorah and Daario

      You can add Daeny, Greyworm and Missandei to the list for me. And the dragons! These characters also seem to be very popular with viewers.

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    135. mau,

      Exactly the way I see it. I Don’t root for Jaime, But I enjoy his story, his journey, his experiences,…etc. Same for every character there is. Neither am I mad when a character does something like Stannis did, because instead of being angry, that a character I root for, has done something I find horrible, I can simply enjoy his journey, wherever that leads him.

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    136. aurane waters,

      Marge’s last scene didn’t make her seem broken. Rather wilder and full of hate, she hasn’t lost anything really. She has been humiliated for the moment. But she is still THE Queen. Cersei on the other hand may not be broken in extremis but certainly the experience of the isolation of the prison, the shame walk and the news of the death of her daughter don’t bear well for her psychic health. It is not logical to not be broken after all this. If you logically compare the two cases Cersei has by far more chances to be broken.

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    137. Yeah, I don’t get where this “people hate Dany now” thing is coming from. In fact, I’ve never loved Dany more than I currently do. She’s been great since season 3. I also (lol) actually really like Daario and the Missandei/Grey Worm combo.

      And considering Varys is my favorite character in the entire saga, I guess I love team Dany?

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    138. Mihnea:
      Ser Oromis Locke,

      I have a theory/speculation, that when Jaime see’s how Tommen suffers, he will decide to rescue Margaery, of course I also think Ollena will help, by providing Tyrell soldiers.

      This of course produces more rifts beatween Cersei and Jaime.

      This would make sense given the fact that Tommen is now his only living child. He’s more emotionally bound to him.

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    139. Luka Nieto,

      No. Way. You. Are. Discussing. The. Show? WEIRRRRRRRD. Kevan’s gonna die, by Tyrion’s crossbow. Or was it a Tyrell’s? I don’t know, but I do know one thing, its going to be hard for Varys to jump between Meereen and King’s Landing.

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    140. Flora Linden: Besides Meereen and Trystane in KL, I can’t imagine any other subplot the trio can logically end up in.

      Well, if we knew what was happening in Winter, then it would be much easier to take stabs at it! We have only very general ideas of what will be happening, and no doubt the book will have things about which we have not guessed. They could well be fitting into one of those plots.

      At this point, my best guess is that they will be taking Arianne’s place in the plot and that they will merge Daeny’s and YG’s plot contributions; so, Ellaria & the SS might head east. But it’s a guess: there is no evidence to support it.

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    141. Looks like Jaime will get Randyll’s bit from the books where he has the High Sparrow turn Margaery over into his custody. I certainly doubt Cersei asked him to do this, so Jaime is either doing it on his own or perhaps at Kevan’s behest. Regardless, it will certainly sow more discord between him and Cersei.

      And Margaery is almost surely playing the Sparrows, not just to free herself but perhaps to further turn them against the Lannisters… unless they just kept tormenting her until she legit broke. I really hope that’s not the case as it just doesn’t feel right to me. :S

      Also, why the hate on Dany’s team? I do have some issues with Dany herself (still thinking that Targaryen madness might come into play later…), but everyone with her are pretty decent people… except for Jorah. He’s a loose cannon and will be a tremendous detriment to Team Dany, especially when Daario finds out about his greyscale on the way to find her and Jorah has to kill him to keep it quiet. Count on it.

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    142. SciFiFantasyGirl,

      As I said in another post above. A perent with multiple children, is more likely to take care/protect their only living child, instead of going on a murder spree for the child they lost. Not to dissmiss Jaime’s suffering tough, I’m sure we will see a preaty broken Jaime, in S6.

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    143. mau,

      Whoops! My bad: mental typo: I was thinking “Daeny’s crew” and typed her name as a result. Clearly my Alzheimer’s meds need to get increased….. 😀

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    144. mau,

      I root for Jon. That is it, in both the books and show. There are other characters who are more entertaining and interesting, but with Jon, it’s just hard to not hope for good things to happen to him.

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    145. Mihnea,

      Well said. I hadn’t ever really thought of the concept of “rooting for characters” as the source for some of the ridiculous outrage we’ve often heard before when unfortunate things happen to certain characters, but that makes soooooooooo much sense. Luckily, I don’t default to rooting for particular characters.

      Of course, it’s okay to have characters you like/dislike and wish good/bad things on. But all those “fans” out there whose overall opinion of this fantasy epic hinge on one or two characters’ fates really need to get a grip. What a dumb way to watch this series or read the books.

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    146. Oh for the love of……..

      It’s JAIME, not Jamie.
      RAMSAY, not Ramsey.

      I have a fucking weird-ass name and it makes me nuts when people can’t be bothered to spell names correctly. There, I’m an asshole and I’m not sorry. Carry on.

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    147. lol rooting for characters in Game of Thrones sounds like a self-hate thing. Haven’t we learned anything when Ned’s head hit the floor?

      That said, I root for Gendry to reach land. Poor guy.

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    148. Mihnea,

      Oh I love Jorah as a character, and Iain Glen is awesome in the part… but as a person, Jorah is seriously losing it and it’s hard to truly like him. His devotion to Dany is growing increasingly toxic, and I’m convinced Daario will find out about his greyscale and Jorah will kill him as a result.

      And of course, I’m one of those people who thinks JonCon will start a grey plague in the books… and since Jorah was given that bit from the cut JonCon plot (further strengthening that notion), I think he will as well.

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    149. Mihnea: but a man in his 50s going mad about a girl in her teens, early 20s, is really damn creepy

      Exactly. He IS getting creepier and creepier. 😀

      Robb Snow: as a person, Jorah is seriously losing it and it’s hard to truly like him. His devotion to Dany is growing increasingly toxic, and I’m convinced Daario will find out about his greyscale and Jorah will kill him as a result.

      I have been thinking since 5.10 that Jorah will kill Daario. Your scenario as to why makes a lot of sense! Perhaps Daario will not return from the “search” for Daenerys.

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    150. Robb Snow:

      Also, why the hate on Dany’s team? I do have some issues with Dany herself (still thinking that Targaryen madness might come into play later…), but everyone with her are pretty decent people… except for Jorah. He’s a loose cannon and will be a tremendous detriment to Team Dany, especially when Daario finds out about his greyscale on the way to find her and Jorah has to kill him to keep it quiet. Count on it.

      Jorah has proven himself more than any of Dany’s hangers-on, with nothing particular to gain from it. He saved her ass numerous times, including his ridiculous ‘spear to the Harpy’ with Daario standing right there, oblivious. Gave himself a death sentence saving Tyrion…..still fighting. So he’s either one of the best people ever, or will be one of the best betrayals of the show. Either way, he’s my fave. 🙂

      Also, he’s smokin’ hot. So there’s that. I got nothin’.

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    151. Robb Snow: I do have some issues with Dany herself (still thinking that Targaryen madness might come into play later…)

      It’s highly entertaining to me that the “Targaryen madness” is always brought up with respect to Daenerys, but never with Jon. Also, all things “Targaryen bad” apply to her, but with Jon, it’s all things Targaryen “rightful and awesome King.” 😉

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    152. Sansarya:
      Pigeon,

      It must be so annoying when they spell it Piegon!!Sorry, I had to, my name is constantly spelled/pronounced incorrectly too.

      The worst is when people are like “Oh hey….uh, Chickadee, right? No….Turkey Vulture? Wait…..no don’t tell me….shoot, well it’s a bird, right?” *high five*

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    153. Ser Oromis Locke:
      As said in the other thread in which this news came up.

      Subsequently, I think the High Sparrow (in light of his “few and the many”-speech last season), knows that this show of arms by “the few”, in attendance of probably 500’ish smallfolk, against the sanctum of the Seven is fuel for a public rebellion against the few. He already let the smallfolk vent their anger towards Cersei and now he can play the victim-role to push the smallfolk over the edge.

      Possibly the power politics would be different there, though, because it’s Margaery and she expresses concern for poor people, working in orphanages and the like. She is also genuinely popular with ordinary people in King’s Landing, not just the followers of a religious sect.

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    154. aurane waters:

      Have we become so spoiled that we’ll never appreciate anything that has been given to us to provide some visualization of a popular series of books, regardless of the adaptation. I feel the same anger as I do for Tolkien fans against PJ’s works.

      So many people are working hard, throughout several years, to do something for us. They didn’t have to bring GOT to a screen and if you don’t like their version or adaptation, than just stop watching and let the rest of us, who are able to separate books from show, enjoy it all without insults towards the people that are bringing them to us. Sure there are going to be people who like parts of one version over the other and you know what, that’s ok! But show some respect with the way you want to convey your opinion.

      “If you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all.”

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    155. red viper:
      Pigeon,

      Ha! I hear you brother! I’m a proofreader and reading some of these posts makes me want to scream!!!

      I’m a spelling/grammar nerd, I admit. I have no problem with people who don’t use English as a first language, because other than reading a bit of French, I can’t even begin a single sentence in a different one. So props to them. But the names…..won’t someone think of the NAMES???

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    156. Pigeon,

      “three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love.”

      I also want to stress that I don’t hate Jorah. I think he means well and is a good person at heart. But love can twist people to do some pretty terrible things, even if that person’s intentions are otherwise well placed. That’s Jorah’s arc in a nutshell to me.

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    157. Kay: It’s highly entertaining to me that the “Targaryen madness” is always brought up with respect to Daenerys, but never with Jon. Also, all things “Targaryen bad” apply to her, but with Jon, it’s all things Targaryen “rightful and awesome King.”

      Ugh, agreed. So far in the novels there hasn’t been anything that showed she was becoming crazy. She feels remorseful and conflicted every time she has to do something brutal on her successful military campaigns, and actually seems to be deeply, almost touchingly concerned about this non-appearing insanity. Conflict that with Cersei’s descent into madness after the death of Joffrey, when she starts savagely screwing a younger, female bed companion, gains weight, becomes even more of an alcoholic and bonks her way around the Red Keep. We KNOW she’s unhinged.

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    158. Kay: It’s highly entertaining to me that the “Targaryen madness” is always brought up with respect to Daenerys, but never with Jon. Also, all things “Targaryen bad” apply to her, but with Jon, it’s all things Targaryen “rightful and awesome King.”

      You’d think that it would be less likely in Jon because his conception wasn’t purely Targaryen. He’s (likely) half Stark so the ‘madness’ would be quite diluted. Just my thought.

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    159. Pigeon,

      YOU TELL IT, LINDAAA! Tell it like it is! LOL

      Joke aside, I would not make such a huge thing out of Jamie vs Jaime. You know that the maesters got it wrong in the Family Tree at the back of TWoIaF. Or maybe, they were correct all along…

      Probably not.

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    160. Robb Snow:
      Pigeon,

      “three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love.”

      I also want to stress that I don’t hate Jorah. I think he means well and is a good person at heart. But love can twist people to do some pretty terrible things, even if that person’s intentions are otherwise well placed. That’s Jorah’s arc in a nutshell to me.

      That’s what I meant when I said that he could potentially be the biggest betrayal. Because wouldn’t that be the most twisted irony and terrible realization? (I don’t actually think that will happen, but boy if it did, it could be terribly fantastic in its unraveling!) The argument that he has already been one of the betrayals (wgen he was banished) would be blown out of the water. I like Dany, and with all the opposition she’s dealt with, fingers crossed he truly IS that solid.

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    161. dothrakian raven:
      aurane waters,

      Marge’s last scene didn’t make her seem broken. Rather wilder and full of hate, she hasn’t lost anything really. She has been humiliated for the moment. But she is still THE Queen. Cersei on the other hand may not be broken in extremis but certainly the experience of the isolation of the prison, the shame walk and the news of the death of her daughter don’t bear well for her psychic health. It is not logical to not be broken after all this. If you logically compare the two cases Cersei has by far more chances to be broken.

      Raven – I couldn’t agree more. I thought that Marge seemed somewhat dangerous in that scene, actually.

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    162. TormundsWoman:
      Pigeon,

      YOU TELL IT, LINDAAA! Tell it like it is! LOL

      Joke aside, I would not make such a huge thing out of Jamie vs Jaime. You know that the maesters got it wrong in the Family Tree at the back of TWoIaF. Or maybe, they were correct all along…

      Probably not.

      Wow. Really?

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    163. Pigeon: Jorah has proven himself more than any of Dany’s hangers-on, with nothing particular to gain from it. He saved her ass numerous times, including his ridiculous ‘spear to the Harpy’ with Daario standing right there, oblivious. Gave himself a death sentence saving Tyrion…..still fighting. So he’s either one of the best people ever, or will be one of the best betrayals of the show. Either way, he’s my fave.

      Also, he’s smokin’ hot. So there’s that. I got nothin’.

      He’s the only excellent actor in that storyline, and at various points he’s been the only great or even good actor of the Essos bunch; for large stretches of the show, he’s pretty much had to hold up the Team Dany arc by himself. Jorah might not be the best guy as a character, but the show desperately needs Iain Glen to stick around.

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    164. Mihnea:
      You truly think the crown has the power to demend anything from Dorne?

      In a world of family dynastic politics, allowing the murderers of a princess of the royal family to go unpunished is a major sign of weakness (look at Tywin’s reaction to Tyrion being merely arrested, for how the Lannisters generally handle such things). And yes, I would say the Crown has the power to demand something from Dorne, if they have Trystane, Doran’s heir (likewise, for people talking about the Snakes being Doran’s nieces, sure, but they also endangered his son in the process of their idiotic vengeance crusade).

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    165. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      mau,

      I root for Jon. That is it, in both the books and show. There are other characters who are more entertaining and interesting, but with Jon, it’s just hard to not hope for good things to happen to him.

      I have loved both Robb and Jon right from the beginning, of both show and books. For me I think it’s because they each embody my version of the perfect man, lol. But really, they’ve been written/portrayed in such a way that you want good things for them SO badly. They fight so hard to protect all they love, and retaining the good and righteous in the world. They would never ask their followers to do anything they themselves wouldn’t do. They are everyday heroes that the common man has no qualms fighting alongside.
      Now excuse me while I go and resume my daily mourning rituals for Robb….

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    166. Talvivaara:
      Jaime will definitely be sent to liberate Margaery by Tommen. It’s not only his duty, as the Commander of Kingsguard to obey his King, first and foremost, but I think that after seeing his Daughter die in his arms, he will also feel he owns this to his son, as a father.

      The Kingsguard is also formally sworn to protect the Queen, so it is also his duty to save Margaery. Jaime’s ‘delightful’ experiences guarding the Mad King showed us all that, after all:

      as a boy of fifteen, he asked his brethren whether he could help the Queen as he heard Aerys II Targaryen raping Rhaella in the royal bedchamber. He pointed out, “We’re meant to protect her!” to which he was told, “not from the King”.

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    167. Hi-Fi:
      lol rooting for characters in Game of Thrones sounds like a self-hate thing. Haven’t we learned anything when Ned’s head hit the floor?

      That said, I root for Gendry to reach land. Poor guy.

      Ned… *sniff sniff* I had been warned before hand, but I still teared up when I saw. It’s a double whammy for me because I’m a massive Tolkien fan and watching Boromir die was quite bad enough. On the upside, I guess it’s a great compliment to an actor that can evoke such strong feelings from the people watching and rooting for them.
      Boromir: “They took the little ones.”
      *bawls*

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    168. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Thronetender,

      Probably not that far south in the show. Will KL ever see a flake? But like Atlanta when 4 snowflakes fall from the cloudy sky, total panic ensues and much toilet paper and milk is reactively purchased. When the white raven doth appear, proceed up and down marble steps cautiously.

      Haha! As a Canadian, you made me chuckle!

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    169. Sean C.,

      The crown is powerless, they are fading into oblivion, the faith just took a huge chunk from their ”power”, the ironborm will too soon. They can demend nothing.

      And what if they have Trystane? Kill him and you start war, wich the crown can’t fight, the Tyrrels won’t fight, not with Margaery and Loras imprisoned, the Western army is fading.

      The problem is that you think this things in a tehnical way; Bolton should keep LF latters, Doran should kill the SS,…etc. But you fail to see the human component in this: killing your brothers duaghters is not that easy, people can easly make mistakes. People have emotions, this, most of the time outweigh ”logic”. We aren’t robots, to look for the most efficient solution every time, some times we simply make mistakes. Sometimes a decision is based on pure emotion not logic, like Ellarias action, does it contradict Oberyn’s stance? Yes it does. But in those moment you don’t think logical anymore. People are complex beings, desperation, pain, love,..etc. Will make people do things that seem, and sometimes are, illogical.

      This is directed at your comments in general, not at this one in particular.

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    170. Mihnea,

      Let’s remember that Jaime is Lord Commander of the KG. it’s his DUTY to protect the King /Queen and royal family. It’s not a case of defying Cersei, it’s a matter of him honouring his duty (and possibly obeying his Kings orders). Besides which- I’m sure the QOT will remind him of his oath when he returns to KL. Cersei had nothing to do with it- she’s simply dowager queen with far less authority than she had in S5.

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    171. Kay,

      I don’t claim to be an expert on genetics, but here’s something: Jon is not a “full blooded” Targaryen since one of his parents is a Stark. It doesn’t make him immune to potential mental problems of course, but I’d think it decreases his chances of having some.

      Dany on the other hand is the direct result of incest, being the daughter of the Mad King and his sister. It’s also worth mentioning that Viserys also showed some signs of possible mental illness. So there’s at least some precedent for Dany possibly developing some problems.

      We should also consider some possible foreshadowing from Season 5. In… Ep 2 I think, Barristan recounts the tale of the Mad King burning people alive without trial (or even any real cause at all) to Dany, and convincing her to give the Harpy she otherwise planned to execute a trial to remove her from also having that possible image.

      Then Barristan is killed, and what does Dany do? She has a noble burned alive without trial or even any evidence that he might be connected to the Sons of the Harpy attack at all. She no longer has that moral compass in Barristan, and the parallel to the Mad King is made in full. It’s something the writers fully intended I think and is a possible sign of things to come.

      There are also some issues I have with her personality and behavior. She’s generally a fairly humble person… but she can also sometimes be extremely arrogant and quick to anger. She’s also quite whimsical, frequently changing her mind either on her own or with very little push from another character. You could chalk all of that up to stress (which she no doubt experiences a lot of), a lack of self-confidence, and youthful naivete… but it could also be more than that. A hot temper, frequent mood swings, and major shifts in general thought and behavior could be signs of mental illness.

      Not to mention, if you just look at her entire life story, she’s had an extremely traumatic life. She never knew her mother and father, has never had a consistent place to live, was abused by her brother, has been raped, lost her husband (who she did seem to grow to love despite his early treatment of her) and child, has nearly been assassinated several times, has been betrayed by people she cared about, and so much more… she’s been through a lot of shit, going back to an early age, and this stuff can either cause, or heavily exacerbate a mental illness.

      I could be totally misreading her character here, but this stuff just sticks out to me a bit and I can’t let go of the idea that Dany could possibly have some problems like her father (and possibly her brother), and could increase in severity as the series goes on.

      …I also think this would just be a good arc for her character from a storytelling standpoint. It’s very sad and tragic and also fits more with George’s style.

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    172. Throbbing Strong:
      I heard Loras will be sentenced to serve seven years at the wall as penance for the seven gods he “offended” with his transgressions. Mace will order 1,000 Tyrell banner men to serve at the wall with Loras while he is there to insure he is immediately voted in as Lord Commander or at the least so he has a lot of backup.On his way to The Wall he will stop in the Riverlands and meet the Hound he will fill him in on everything that is happening at Kings Landing including some information about Ser Robert Strong.

      Loras upon arriving at the Wall will immediately being exerting his power over whoever the current Lord Commander is. He will start talking of making major changes to the Watch such as the no sex rule in order to gain favor with new recruits.He will challenge Ser Allistor to single combat at some point and slay him leading to a new vote. Loras will then raise a new order called the Rose Crows and they are to be his personal guard consisting of the best and bravest soldiers at The Wall.Dolorious Edd will be among them.

      You heard this from where? You’re trolling is pretty tiresome dude-where do you find the time to type all this bullshit?

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    173. Mihnea,

      The western army hasn’t been established as fading in the show. And having Trystane is indeed rather enormous leverage, particularly when compared to a handful of bastard nieces who are in fact guilty and Doran himself knows it.

      And Roose having Littlefinger’s correspondence is not some technical idea of how people should act. It’s how everybody in that era did act, with important correspondence. That’s why every notable people from until very recently would typically leave enormous quantities of personal correspondence, or order it to be destroyed on their deaths. You didn’t throw that stuff away, particularly when, in this case, it represents considerable leverage over Littlefinger should the Boltons need it.

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    174. Sean C.,

      All right, this disscussion will lead nowhere, and i’m not one to get into endless arguments.

      We simply have different views on stories, in general. You expect the characters to do this things, that seam logical to you, I can easly accept a character doing a mistake or illogical decision.
      You think Doran should just kill the SS for their crimes, I expect a uncle to have a difficult time killing his nieces, no metter what they did.
      Neither is wrong, Neither is right.

      I say we stop here, there is nothing to disscuss, as our views are very different. And a endless argument will have no benefit too this site.

      But I’m glad we could have a disscussion, without insults being thrown around.

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    175. Dornish Pastie: So far in the novels there hasn’t been anything that showed she was becoming crazy. She feels remorseful and conflicted every time she has to do something brutal on her successful military campaigns, and actually seems to be deeply, almost touchingly concerned about this non-appearing insanity.

      Daenerys’ “Targaryen madness” is almost canon by some die-hard Daenerys-haters at this point! It absolutely doesn’t matter if there hasn’t been anything in the novels yet. 🙂 If it doesn’t happen, some folks are going to be bitterly, bitterly disappointed. 😀 It’s really quite amusing for me.

      SciFiFantasyGirl: You’d think that it would be less likely in Jon because his conception wasn’t purely Targaryen. He’s (likely) half Stark so the ‘madness’ would be quite diluted. Just my thought.

      So, with that reasoning, Jon’s “awesome Targaryen rightful King”-ness would also be diluted, yes? 😉
      For the record, I enjoy all character’s arcs. Even characters like Tywin and Stannis, I loved their entire stories and how they got their comeuppance. (Sometimes, characters start to bore me. though. Cersei in S5.)

      Robb Snow,
      So….. full vs. half. Did Jon’s supposed daddy display the madness, being a product of incest? I mean, running off with a Lord Paramount’s daughter who was betrothed to another, while he himself was married to a third’s daughter and had children with her, seems a tad impetuous, even “crazy”, to me.

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    176. Robb Snow: Then Barristan is killed, and what does Dany do? She has a noble burned alive without trial or even any evidence that he might be connected to the Sons of the Harpy attack at all.

      Her father would have burned them all. And Daeny did have evidence that they were connected: the Harpies clearly represent the well-born. What Daeny did was not insane so much as a one-woman “good cop/bad cop” act. She reminded them of the power that she had. She sacrificed one of them, knowing full well that (probably) all were guilty. However, it also scared some of them into cooperating with her.

      The alternatives that people in her world would have used would have been torture the lot of them until they started speaking, or to take (and start executing) hostages. However, Daeny is in a world where, in the end, if you cannot back it up with force, then you cannot win. Small demonstrations doing the minimum harm potentially cuts down on the butchery on both ends.

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    177. SciFiFantasyGirl: Haha!As a Canadian, you made me chuckle!

      Ah,…the Alberta Frostfangs. My favorite vacation area!

      I do wonder how KL’s Flea Bottom will react to a blizzard though. Snowflakes = panic! There may be a rush on bowls of brown! 🙂

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    178. Kay,

      It very well could be that Rhaegar had some mental problems. We’ll never know for sure because he’s dead.

      I will say that being a product of incest doesn’t guarantee you’ll have a mental illness. It is a huge risk factor though, and I’d think someone who is a direct product of incest is more prone to having one then someone a generation removed from incest.

      And hell, for all we know Jon will develop mental problems… especially after dying and coming back to life, which could easily cause problems in and of itself as Lady Stoneheart’s behavior seems to suggest.

      …I hope not though. Jon is my bro.

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    179. Kay: Daenerys’ “Targaryen madness” is almost canon by some die-hard Daenerys-haters at this point!

      If “by this point,” you mean since about 1998, then, yes, yes it is.

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    180. Also, I hope you’re not under the impression that I hate Dany for some reason. I wouldn’t have her as my avatar if that were the case.

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    181. Mihnea:
      Sean C.,
      . Sometimes a decision is based on pure emotion not logic, like Ellarias action, does it contradict Oberyn’s stance?

      Everything Ellaria has done was foreshadowed beautifully in S4.

      Oberyn: We don’t hurt little girls, in Dorne.
      Cersei : Everywhere in the world, they hurt little girls!

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    182. Great news and the storylines for the next season seem to be really becoming interesting; just hope there is sufficient time to do the storylines justice (no repeat of Dorne). Some wonderful insights too as everyone seems to be on fire today.

      Although in chaos the Riverlands was under the rule of the crown via Walder Frey; so something major has to happen in the Riverlands to prompt Jamie to go/be sent there.

      I think Ellaria is finished but I can’t imagine her or the sand snakes hanging around for Doran to punish them. Regardless of them being his nieces, I think Doran will play the same card with the sand snakes that did with Ellaria; this is your last chance.

      Fantastic point by Lalla – I can’t imagine Margaery becoming a convert but such a revelation would destroy the Lannister/Tyrell pact (regardless of Tommen and Margaery’s marriage).

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    183. God of tits and wine,

      I too have begun to find her a touch self-entitled and sanctimonious. Plus, her storyline is a quagmire sucking more and more characters into it’s mediocreness! Book Dany is more likeable (possibly because you get more of her inner conflict and her wrestling with decisions) but the story is still meandering!

      dothrakian raven,

      I agree in principle but they (books and show) do appear to present Dany ( along with Jon,Arya and Tyrion to a lesser extent) in a much more positive light than the other characters who on the whole seem to be much more rooted in the grey. I’m really not sure what the plan in Dorne is anymore. Poisoning Myrcella was a bizarre move, especially if Trystane is going to KL. IF the SS and Ellaria did it purely out of revenge then they’re characters are even more unlikeable…only not in a good way like Ramsay, Joffrey, The Mountain, etc as they have none of the gravitas. If Doran is behind it then it makes even less sense! Shall be interesting to see what they’re going to do with it but I do worry.

      Mihnea,

      Not claiming I root for a character but the average viewer ( or human in general) does do. Hence the outpouring of anger/sadness everytime a Stark gets it! 😛 Personally, I prefer a character to stay interesting as opposed to be “successful”. Admittedly, I do have a soft spot for Jaime as I find his journey/character the most interesting in the book/show and I’m rooting for his continuing redemption. But if it doesn’t happen but the story remains good then I’ll have to take the hit!

      mau,

      Varys is interesting but for me the reveal that he’s supporting Dany in the show has lost him some of that master schemer appeal. I like the intricate YG plan he masterminded in the books. To see him being behind Dany all along is a bit simplified and a letdown as it’s a bit too obvious.
      Tyrion is a good character but I feel GRRM shipped him out to Dany as her storyline was in desperate need of support from a strong character. Dany, has got pretty dull after book/season 1 which is a shame as she was incredibly interesting in that. They should have got her involved with the main Westeros story much earlier. Jorah is very likeable and has pretty much held Dany’s story together with the support of Selmy. Though Daario was a dick in the book and remains that in the show. They should have gone much more over-the-top cocky with him. More of him like the scene in the Pits last season. That’s the arsehole he needs to be! Doran is fine but , like pretty much all of Dorne has nothing to his character yet.

      Wimsey,

      Well, we certainly weren’t meant to full on hate her as it is univerally agreed Ellaria and the SS are. Her character design was a bit bratty but was done so to contrast against the level-headedness of Doran. His slow-burning revenge againt her rush of blood to the head. Also was meant to represent the rashness of the Dornish and show that this fiery tempered nation weren’t just sitting around taking it. Dorne was one of the areas I thought the show could improve on but they rally dropped the ball on it.

      Dornish Pastie,

      One of the reasons I wish they’d do a prequel series. To show the emotional torment Jaime went through whilst guarding the Mad King. Saying he had no morals when he was the only member who questioned the blind duty of the KG when such horrific acts as the rape of Rhaella and the burning of the Starks were happening is one of the things that endears him to me.

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    184. Hodor’s Bastard: Ah,…the Alberta Frostfangs. My favorite vacation area!

      I do wonder how KL’s Flea Bottom will react to a blizzard though. Snowflakes = panic! There may be a rush on bowls of brown!

      Alas, I’m in Ontario. The more boring part of the country. “The Gift” of Westeros so to speak. lol

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    185. Kay: Daenerys’ “Targaryen madness” is almost canon by some die-hard Daenerys-haters at this point! It absolutely doesn’t matter if there hasn’t been anything in the novels yet. If it doesn’t happen, some folks are going to be bitterly, bitterly disappointed. It’s really quite amusing for me.

      So, with that reasoning, Jon’s “awesome Targaryen rightful King”-ness would also be diluted, yes?
      For the record, I enjoy all character’s arcs. Even characters like Tywin and Stannis, I loved their entire stories and how they got their comeuppance. (Sometimes, characters start to bore me. though. Cersei in S5.)

      Robb Snow,
      So….. full vs. half. Did Jon’s supposed daddy display the madness, being a product of incest? I mean, running off with a Lord Paramount’s daughter who was betrothed to another, while he himself was married to a third’s daughter and had children with her, seems a tad impetuous, even “crazy”, to me.

      No silly! I’m going to say that anything bad or crazy is wiped out by Stark awesomeness, and all the good traits of the two surnames are the recipe for making him the greatest man in all the world! 😉 lol!
      But seriously, I really do think he’s the answer to everything and the one who will be sitting on the throne at the end because he never wanted or expected anything. He isn’t playing the Game of Thrones. Sweet irony.

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    186. Im really excited for Jaime’s story this coming season! If he is finally going against Cersei it will be great to watch. It bothered me that last season Jamie was still pining/all in with Cersei.

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    187. Robb Snow:
      Kay,

      I don’t claim to be an expert on genetics, but here’s something: Jon is not a “full blooded” Targaryen since one of his parents is a Stark. It doesn’t make him immune to potential mental problems of course, but I’d think it decreases his chances of having some.

      Dany on the other hand is the direct result of incest, being the daughter of the Mad King and his sister. It’s also worth mentioning that Viserys also showed some signs of possible mental illness. So there’s at least some precedent for Dany possibly developing some problems.

      We should also consider some possible foreshadowing from Season 5. In… Ep 2 I think, Barristan recounts the tale of the Mad King burning people alive without trial (or even any real cause at all) to Dany, and convincing her to give the Harpy she otherwise planned to execute a trial to remove her from also having that possible image.

      Then Barristan is killed, and what does Dany do? She has a noble burned alive without trial or even any evidence that he might be connected to the Sons of the Harpy attack at all. She no longer has that moral compass in Barristan, and the parallel to the Mad King is made in full. It’s something the writers fully intended I think and is a possible sign of things to come.

      There are also some issues I have with her personality and behavior. She’s generally a fairly humble person… but she can also sometimes be extremely arrogant and quick to anger. She’s also quite whimsical, frequently changing her mind either on her own or with very little push from another character. You could chalk all of that up to stress (which she no doubt experiences a lot of), a lack of self-confidence, and youthful naivete… but it could also be more than that. A hot temper, frequent mood swings, and major shifts in general thought and behavior could be signs of mental illness.

      Not to mention, if you just look at her entire life story, she’s had an extremely traumatic life. She never knew her mother and father, has never had a consistent place to live, was abused by her brother, has been raped, lost her husband (who she did seem to grow to love despite his early treatment of her) and child, has nearly been assassinated several times, has been betrayed by people she cared about, and so much more… she’s been through a lot of shit, going back to an early age, and this stuff can either cause, or heavily exacerbate a mental illness.

      I could be totally misreading her character here, but this stuff just sticks out to me a bit and I can’t let go of the idea that Dany could possibly have some problems like her father (and possibly her brother), and could increase in severity as the series goes on.

      …I also think this would just be a good arc for her character from a storytelling standpoint. It’s very sad and tragic and also fits more with George’s style.

      I agree. As I watch the series, I’m seeing less and less compassion and mental and emotional stability from her, probably due to all that has happened to her, and also, she’s been ruling based on instinct and circumstance. She’s really had no guidance on how to rule and maintain order. It’s been very interesting seeing these changes in her character as the show moves on and really does make you wonder just how much of a “good guy” she is going to be by the end.

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    188. I guess the only way D&D decided to develope the enormous amount of story in book 4 &5 was to dilute the story and making it longer.
      So I would expect s601with some prologue with Bran Rickon Euron Arya and Jamie. There I expect Myrcella story is explained: Maybe she is really dead and then Tristane desperate goes to Meeren to take the role of BookQuentin. Doran pretends is dead and Ellaria’s Head is given to Jamie that goes back to Kings Landing.
      In Ep2 I expect a catch up with Theon/Sansa/Brienne/Bolton Tyrion Sam plus maybe Rickon Bran Arya (being blind and wathching something happening in the RiverLands) and Jamie again. The Kingsmot with Euron the Quarth warlocks and Yara couls show up as well. Olenna shouting at Mace could be a way to describe why they accepted HS and Kevan is now in power.
      In ep3 I expect Sam arriving Old Town Jamie coming back to KL and speraking with Tommen and being convinced to free Margery whatever that means. Arya(she will be the one with most story together with Jamie in my view) and Jon/Melisandre could show up. Euron could attack the Reach. Dany and Mormont/Daaario could show up as well. The same is true for Tyrion Bran and Rickon.
      In Ep4 I could guess Trystane arriving to Meeren contemporary with some Quarth/Yunkai ambassador declaring war. The Wall will have a resolution. Sansa will join BookSansa in whatever she does in the books. Yara goes to the North and she will get in contact with the Great Northern Conspiracy. Merwyn will probably show up with Sam.
      In Ep5 I expect Jamie breaking up with Cersei and being sent to the Riverlands. ShowLoras will take the place of BookGarland. Doran Emissary will take place in the small council. Kevan will be in power. Bran will dig something of the past out. Tyrion will speak with Kinvara. Dany will get the Dothraki on her side. Trystanw will be roasted.

      Anytime in the story LSH equivalent will mess up with the Freys. Kevan will take the place of the Lannister Relative (Damion/Davon) that BookCersei chose in the Riverlands. ShowLittlefinger, ShowSansa and Show Brienne will cath up with thei BookVersions. BookEllarya BookGriff are still not completely ruled out in my view.

      I expect that Ep6 will have with Pycelle death, Jamie and Septon Merrybal meeting, Brinee ShowLSH equivalent TWOW material for the others.
      I

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    189. Arkash:
      Damn, everyone’s here fuzzing about Jaime and the Tyrells and I’m just sitting here, dying to get a picture of Euron in costume ! ^^

      Me too bruh. EURON! EURON! URINE KINGGGG!

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    190. Robb Snow: She no longer has that moral compass in Barristan

      She has Tyrion now, doesn’t she? But I wonder if he’ll have the guts to slap the Mother of DRAGONS as he did with Joffrey… 😀

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    191. uff,

      I’m hoping that they keep Feast-Dance to a minimum. The big three–Jon, Tyrion, Dany–are where they are at the end of Dance, so they should be moving on to Winter. Ditto for Sansa and Theon. That moves the North to Winter, except for Bran, whose story will probably include the flashbacks from Dance, and maybe tie into Jon’s mysterious birth. Arya is a bit behind, being newly blind, but we’re going to get the Mercy chapter, which will move her eventually to Westeros. I hope.

      I pray that they get rid of Meribald and his overly hyped speech. In fact, I hope they forget Riverlands altogether this season. Ironborn tie into Sam-Gilly at Oldtown. Sounds like Jaime-Marg-Cersei-The Faith and the King’s Landing plot will be moving on. I’m worried about Dorne, as it was awful last season, but they’ll have to deal with it given all the loose threads.

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    192. Maria:
      uff,

      I pray that they get rid of Meribald and his overly hyped speech. In fact, I hope they forget Riverlands altogether this season. Ironborn tie into Sam-Gilly at Oldtown. Sounds like Jaime-Marg-Cersei-The Faith and the King’s Landing plot will be moving on. I’m worried about Dorne, as it was awful last season, but they’ll have to deal with it given all the loose threads.

      Pfft. Get outta here.

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    193. The episode when Ser Loras arrives at the wall will be title “Wallflower”.

      Eh, at Dragoncon Finn said Loras ends up in rags. So that sounds more like the Tyrells are going all out on “becoming devote Sparrows” or Loras will just rot in the dungeon all season and go bonkers to me. While the wall doesn’t have great fashion, they’re not down to rags quite yet either.

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    194. Pigeon: That’s what I meant when I said that he could potentially be the biggest betrayal. Because wouldn’t that be the most twisted irony and terrible realization? (I don’t actually think that will happen, but boy if it did, it could be terribly fantastic in its unraveling!) The argument that he has already been one of the betrayals (wgen he was banished) would be blown out of the water. I like Dany, and with all the opposition she’s dealt with, fingers crossed he truly IS that solid.

      But that would mean he’s been Danys betrayer twice. I don’t think they’d repeat this (GRRM or D&D). My theory has always been that her betrayal for love will be the one that shocks us the most, will be a real punch in the guts and from the least likely source. She’ll be betrayed by someone who is held to ransom because of the one person they still have that is dear to them. And that person is Missandei. Think about it- in books /show her one remaining bro/friend without benefits is unsullied and the show in particular has really stretched that relationship out. D&D rarely commit valuable screen time for no reason so why do this? I’m guessing he’ll be captured by the SOTH and Missandei will betray Dany in some way to save him. Similarly in the books. Boom!

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    195. Ok I’m very late to this party but as this spoiler very much involves my main man Jaime, I will not hold back. You guys covered a lot of this, not going to quote everyone, just agreeing or disagreeing as I go 🙂

      First of all, in Fangirl voice, OMG JAIME ON HORSEBACK BEING HEROIC SQUEEEEE! 😀

      Ok, moving on 😉

      I don’t think a revenge spree is consistent with his character (book or show) at this point in the stories. Certainly not for the show. Jaime is feeling fatherly, feeling the loss of his daughter, feeling the failure of his mission to Dorne, and I’m sure, not looking forward to returning and telling Cersei the bad news. I’d imagine they will have a massive disagreement as soon as he returns, with Cersei blaming him for 1) not protecting her from the FM, and 2) not protecting Myrcella. This all makes sense from Cersei’s perspective (although maybe not to ours, or Jaime’s). I think this is going to parallel his return in S4 and their fallout in the beginning of S5 when Cersei: blames Jaime for being imprisoned and not protecting her, wants him to kill Tyrion to avenge Joffrey (which Jaime finds appalling), and blames him for Tywin’s death. They disagree on moral grounds- Jaime will not kill his brother, and even helps him escape, realizing 1) Tyrion didn’t do it but also 2) if he did, revenge won’t bring Joffrey back. All of this is lost on revenge-bound Cersei, who will likely be even more amped up after her imprisonment and walk of shame. So I think the falling out will be on moral terms, Jaime wanting to help Tommen, defend the Queen (as is his duty as LC of the KG), and going on a peaceful rather than a vengeful path.

      As for Lancel (and the Kettleblacks, and Moon boy etc…) being a motivator for Jaime to part from Cersei, I don’t agree. I think he’s just more shocked by what she’s become rather than being angry/jealous.

      The Tyrell kids I can’t speculate too much except I agree with everyone- Margaery will hopefully be playing a role rather than truly converted. I think with Theon/Reek we already have a clear case of Stockholm syndrome/trauma and Margaery or Loras paralleling that would be overkill. Same goes for Loras turning to the faith- it would be too similar to Lancel’s storyline. Too much thematic overlap, but of course it’s possible.

      Kevan: Gimme more! More bitchy conversations with Cersei, please let him and Jaime have a scene as well. Then Varys’s little birds can do their work. One idea could be similar to when Aidan had his big Chaos is a ladder monologue- Varys voice over visual scenes of little birds killing Kevan, he can remain in Meereen. But I agree, less impact than if he is there, speaking to Kevan.

      And yes, Pigeon, thank you, I agree 1000%
      it’s JAIME not JAMIE. I totally understand people posting here, especially if they haven’t read the books or if english is not their first language, but in press articles I get pissed off to no end… writers should do their homework!

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    196. Jaime’s girl: As for Lancel (and the Kettleblacks, and Moon boy etc…) being a motivator for Jaime to part from Cersei, I don’t agree. I think he’s just more shocked by what she’s become rather than being angry/jealous.

      I agree with most of your analysis, except that sentence, unless you’re talking just about the show in this case. Show|Jaime… yeah, he may react with more shock than anger at seeing Cersei’s situation, but in the books Jaime spent the whole of his journey through the Riverlands being jealous and angry at Cersei for “fucking Lancel and Osmund Kettleblack and probably Moon Boy for all I know” —so much that it started to get really grating, personally. Hopefully the show will be more nuanced in this respect.

      Jaime’s girl: One idea could be similar to when Aidan had his big Chaos is a ladder monologue- Varys voice over visual scenes of little birds killing Kevan, he can remain in Meereen.

      I have been thinking how they could stage the assassination to be impactful, and for us to feel Varys’s presence even when he isn’t there, and I think your suggestion is just perfect —Varys monologuing to (probably) Tyrion about certain orders he has managed to send all the way to King’s Landing, all the while we see the murderous effects of these orders.

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    197. Jaime’s girl,

      “Then Varys’s little birds can do their work. One idea could be similar to when Aidan had his big Chaos is a ladder monologue- Varys voice over visual scenes of little birds killing Kevan, he can remain in Meereen. ”

      I like this idea a lot.

      Think you guys really need to give the others a break in terms of the spelling mistakes though. If you’re posting here in a smartphone believe me- it’s almost impossible to see the mistakes (and in many cases the phone automatically changes the spelling anyway). I have to go back several times to check (which isn’t easy with the size of the text box).

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    198. Luka Nieto: I agree with most of your analysis, except that sentence, unless you’re talking just about the show

      Totally Luka, for just Show Jaime. Book Jaime I think is more concerned about Cersei’s cheating. I agree 100%.

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    199. Apollo,

      Yup, I don’t mind mistakes here on WotW at all, what can you do? (smartphone is a good point). But I have no mercy on reporters who write published articles! 😉 It’s sad if you just google Jamie Lannister it will say “showing results for Jaime Lannister” so these professionals have no excuse! 😛

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    200. Kay: It’s highly entertaining to me that the “Targaryen madness” is always brought up with respect to Daenerys, but never with Jon. Also, all things “Targaryen bad” apply to her, but with Jon, it’s all things Targaryen “rightful and awesome King.”

      Perhaps that because she crucified 163 people and fed another to her dragons, just to assert her power and not because of any particular crimes these individuals committed?

      I almost spat up my Diet Coke (or wine, I can’t remember) when Varys said Westeros needs someone “gentler” than Stannis. What? He’s a bleeding-heart cupcake compared to Dany, and Varys should darned well know that her dragons will burn more people than Mel ever will! Jon, in contrast, merely beheaded a single loudmouth as punishment for insubordination, in order to assert his own dominance. So not only were Dany’s deaths far crueler, but far more numerous as well. Even Ned lopped someone’s head for quitting his job. Because, rules.

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    201. zambi76:
      Eh, at Dragoncon Finn said Loras ends up in rags. So that sounds more like the Tyrells are going all out on “becoming devote Sparrows” or Loras will just rot in the dungeon all season and go bonkers to me. While the wall doesn’t have great fashion, they’re not down to rags quite yet either.

      Don’t know if spoilers are working so won’t write it out but have you seen the comment on reddit (posted by benevolentcannibal about 4/5ths of the way down) about what Finn apparently told their friend at Dragon Con his prison fate is? In the interview with him from a recent thread here he said he was nervous before filming began but it was ok once underway. Don’t know if he’s always like that anyway, but if this is true – and of course it could all be a load of rubbish – that might explain the nerves.

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    202. Chad Brick,

      It just happened that these 163 were men of power which they either personally abused heavily or shut their eyes when their fellows did so. These men of power let children be crucified! Danys punishment cannot be regarded as a sign of madness. It is an oversimplification. In fact the issue of Targ. madness has not been addressed in a prominent way in the series.

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    203. Lulu’s Mum: Don’t know if spoilers are working so won’t write it out but have you seen the comment on reddit (posted by benevolentcannibal about 4/5ths of the way down) about what Finn apparently told their friend at Dragon Con his prison fate is? In the interview with him from a recent thread here he said he was nervous before filming began but it was ok once underway. Don’t know if he’s always like that anyway, but if this is true – and of course it could all be a load of rubbish – that might explain the nerves.

      My bet is Loras gets tortured fairly brutally.

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    204. Sean C.:
      Luka Nieto,

      I have a really hard time imagining the show version of Varys orchestrating a murder spree to destabilize a government.

      I agree, maybe that’s why it’s needed. So far on the show it’s been all Littlefinger is willing to do anything, kill the king, murder Lysa, and Varys is a rational angel who wants peace. I’m being hyperbolic of course, but I’d like to see Varys take some desperate and morally questionable measures on the show to bring him more in line with (at least my perception of) his book character.

      As for Loras, being locked away and watching him fall apart in a cell all season could be the direction they take- Jaime can fight to rescue Margaery because she’s the queen, but no such protection extends or Loras. Also Margaery’s crimes are milder/harder to prove in the eyes of the FM than what Loras is accused of, might be easier to spring her! I’m a fan of Finn Jones’ portrayal in general so I’d like to see him have more serious material this season and see what he can do. A lot of his grieving stuff over Renly got left on the editing room floor previously..

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    205. Apollo,
      Nearly all the sexually-related violence we’ve seen so far has been directed at women so I guess a male victim would be a blow for equality in a terrible way, but as we’ve said before being the one who suffers the most isn’t a competition anyone wants to win 🙁 🙁 🙁

      It’s a sign of the level of brutality in the show that we just accept it all as part of the story, but for me reflects how well written it is that I still want to watch it despite this. I can’t think of anything else I would enjoy with remotely this amount of physical, emotional and sexual abuse in it.

      Jaime’s girl,
      In the interview I referred to above Finn said he gets to go “deeper and darker” into Loras’s character so it sounds like something fairly substantial may be in the offing.

      For any fans of the Loras/Renly ship who haven’t seen it, there’s is a deleted scene of him mourning Renly from S2 on You Tube. I thought it was really nice, but it made my spider senses tingle re: how trustworthy Margaery is when she shows concern for people. Although she might just see it as a practical reaction in a war situation where you don’t really have the ‘luxury’ of mourning people for long.

      EDIT: Hmmm I thought taking the apostrophe out of my name might stop this going into moderation, but apparently not 🙁

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    206. Apollo,

      Yeah, turning Theon into Reek was long ago we need something fresh in the torture department.

      I for one will not be that shocked if Loras actually gets raped by the Sparrows (although I think Finn was maybe just having a bit of fun with that fangirl). If praying the gay away fails, there is always the “hilarious” raping the gay away for the bigots.

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    207. Jaime’s girl,

      You’re not being hyperbolic. Varys has been presented as “good Littlefinger” (even though his actual plans are totally at odds with his supposed goal, which in the books was the point, but in the show that doesn’t seem to be the case, since he’s presented as uber-friendly and righteous).

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    208. So this means that book Jaime will survive his encounter with the lady and return back to KL or this role will be played by Randil Tarly returning from the siege in the books?

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    209. Lordy reed: So this means that book Jaime will survive his encounter with the lady and return back to KL or this role will be played by Randil Tarly returning from the siege in the books?

      Almost certainly. Book Jaime has a certain date with his sister that he cannot miss! That written, don’t expect him to be around much longer than that: Cersei’s death is prophecized, but Jaime’s death is foreshadowed.

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    210. Jaime’s girl: So far on the show it’s been all Littlefinger is willing to do anything, kill the king, murder Lysa, and Varys is a rational angel who wants peace.

      These are not necessarily exclusive conditions. Varys pretty much is willing to do anything to achieve his “for the good of the realm” goal. The show portrays him very much as “by whatever means necessary.” It’s all “for the good of the realm”: and as he has shown since Season 1, Varys will sacrifice Ned Stark, Tyrion and anyone else in order to get that.

      What was not been made abundantly clear until last season was exactly what Varys thought was best for the realm! (We actually did get the big tip off on the show in Season 1, and many readers had surmised that it was Varys that Arya saw in the dungeons: however, as always is the case, many other readers were convinced that it had to be someone else!)

      The difference between LF and Varys seems to be the subtlety of the moves. Varys tips small runs of dominoes that immediately do not look out-of-place. LF is willing and eager to push over lots of dominoes to spectacular effect. And this almost certainly stems from a much greater difference: end goals. Varys wants the Realm whole and sound for the Targaryens. What, exactly, LF wants is one of the great outstanding mysteries of the series. The very old idea that he was somehow an agent for the Others was the one that I had long thought made the most sense: but now that we’ve gotten in 5 books with nothing being presented to show that this is a possiblity (and now that the show has shown us much more about what the Walkers are doing), I think that this idea has to be discarded. (When people like me pushed this idea, we assumed that Crows/Dragons would inform us more about the Others and who/what their agencies were south of the Wall; however, I now think that they have no agencies south of the Wall!)

      But that means that we are no further along on the “Why of Littlefinger” than were we back in 2001. Either GRRM has something up his sleeve that will make the Snape reveal look like small potatoes, or it’s all just arbitrary!

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    211. Sean C.,
      Jaime’s girl,

      You are talking about the guy who, only in the show, scoured the Earth to find the guy who made him a eunuch, put him in a box, had his mouth nailed shut and had him sailed across the Narrow sea —all to get his revenge. And he explained all of this to Tyrion in the most calm way possible.

      That may have been a personal vendetta —but, in terms of his political goals, his ideology seems to include “the ends justify the means.” That’s been quite clear since season one. For example, when Illyrio suggested getting rid of Ned, who was uncovering the conspiracy and may spark a war, which they didn’t want yet (“What good is war now?”), Varys’s reservations weren’t moral. Sure, in the show we haven’t seen him personally murder someone for his goals (though that only happened once in the books, and it was literally the last chapter of the last published book), but we have seen him said he’s pretty much willing to do bad stuff if it means achieving his goals; or, especially, we’ve seen him let bad stuff happen if doing otherwise would compromise his plans.

      Sure. Such an uncomplicatedly nice guy.

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    212. Wimsey: What, exactly, LF wants is one of the great outstanding mysteries of the series.

      Is it? To me, as a show watcher, it seems so far to be personal ascension up the power ladder, as far as possible. His machinations in S5, I thought, were designed to ultimately get him the North and the Vale.

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    213. Kay: His machinations in S5, I thought, were designed to ultimately get him the North and the Vale.

      That might be part of it, or those might be his immediate motives. But why did he start all of this stuff in the first place? Was it all just to get the Vale from Robert Arryn?

      Or is it just (as some people thought way back when) that he just wants to sow as much chaos as possible on the grounds that chaos creates opportunity for men like him?

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    214. Wimsey,

      Creating chaos was definitely the first step. Because chaos creates opportunities. Season 5 showed that he is using those opportunities, as the center becomes more unstable, and older powers start to wane, to himself rise up. He measured the best steps to take after creating chaos, and then put the next part of his plan in place. In the first part, without chaos there was a perfectly stable balance in power amongst Lannisters, Baratheons, Arryn, resulting in not many opportunities for someone outside the central power base made up of old blood.

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    215. It is pretty inevitable that the rabble cannot be allowed to humiliate members of the established order. Just rewatched Mother’s Mercy and as any student of history will tell you, once the religious zealots take on the political establishment, there will be blood. An alliance of the Tyrells and the Lannisters against the Faith Militant is sensible but how the other houses will choose sides is in question. Should be exciting. I expect to see Sister Unella’s head on a spike alongside that of the High Sparrow.

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