Maisie Williams gives definite answer on Syrio Forel’s fate

Arya-Syrio-arya-stark-and-syrio-forel-24708532-1024-576

Game of Thrones is notable for its brutal killing of characters so when one is killed off screen, fans often theorize ways they survived [i.e. Stannis]. Now that Arya has made her way all the way to the Free City of Braavos, Maisie Williams reflects on the first man that inspired her to travel there. With IGN, Williams puts an end to all the Syrio Forel theories.

I always was like, ‘Oh, no, I feel like he’s still alive.’ I always had my own theory that he and Jaqen were the same person.

A popular theory among GOT message boards. Source: neoGAF

A popular theory among GOT message boards. Source: neoGAF.com

Assuming Syrio had the abilities of the Faceless Men, this could’ve been so. However, when she brought her theory to Game of Thrones showrunners David Benioff and DB Weiss, they told her simply:

No, he is dead.

Bummer. The similarities must be purely Braavosi and a shared dialect. Williams shared the same reaction and joked she could still dream, even noting his fate may be different in George R.R. Martin’s A Song of Ice and Fire series.

Did this crush your theories or are you still holding out for a Syrio/Jaqen reveal in the books? Let us know below!

156 responses

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    1. a to the z:
      Maisie isn’t very popular on this site, from what I’ve read in the comments and how scarce her interview coverage is, but this was pretty cool of her.

      What??? I would disagree with your statement. I think Maisie has a ton of fans here. In fact if I had to say, Sophie has had it pretty rough over the past few years. Arya is a fun character and I really miss her interaction with the Hound mostly, but I think her story arc is going to bring her home this season, maybe, who really knows, but I am looking forward to it as I am sure many others are too.

      I also kinda resent on behalf of the site owners that they play favorites. Just, no. No.

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    2. a to the z:
      Maisie isn’t very popular on this site, from what I’ve read in the comments and how scarce her interview coverage is, but this was pretty cool of her.

      Maisie is probably one of the more popular members of the cast

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    3. Just to keep the theory alive:

      “He’s dead” may be accurate if No One uses his face from the hall. Jaqen was alive too at some point but he walks around and instructs Arya

      #istillbelieve

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    4. George basically said this 20 years ago.

      Although he’s also flat out said Targaryen’s are not immune to fire and that’s a widely held belief so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

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    5. Zeus:
      He’s dead.

      Not that I think Syrio is coming back, but I wouldn’t trust anything Maisie says about the show, given her track record…

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    6. Well, David Benioff and DB Weiss have said Jon is dead, as well. Sometimes it depends on what “dead” is. I happen to think Syrio IS gone, but his “face” is in that room somewhere. IF it’s ever needed…

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    7. Definite answer?
      Every single person who’s linked to the show has been saying that Jon Snow is dead for a year now.

      But yeah their words mean a lot right?

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    8. Off topic but this thought was in my head for a while now. Has anybody noticed that in both trailers, showing us BastardBowl, that there are many shots of this one white horse running in slow mo, in two different shots but isn’t showing the rider? I have been thinking that it could be Jon Snow…

      Just a thought.

      But anyways, i had no idea that there was a theory that Syrio Forel was a faceless man.

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    9. Bryan Cogman confirmed years ago that Syrio is dead. I’ve never seen the appeal of the Jaqen = Syrio theory, it’s always been completely far-fetched in my opinion. Hopefully people will actually forget about it now that D&D debunked it too.

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    10. If he was truly dead they would have shown his head on a spike together with Ned’s, the Septa and others in S1 ep 10 so that the viewers see some more familiar faces…. I think they were keeping it open at that point given that in the books he is a faceless man.

      In the show though we might just never know the backstory of how he escaped and turned into Jaqen so they may have decided he was dead later in the story.

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    11. Connor:
      Off topic but this thought was in my head for a while now. Has anybody noticed that in both trailers, showing us BastardBowl, that there are many shots of this one white horse running in slow mo, in two different shots but isn’t showing the rider? I have been thinking that it could be Jon Snow…

      Just a thought.

      But anyways, i had no idea that there was a theory that Syrio Forel was a faceless man.

      On a white horse…http://cdn3.whatculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/BdliDSRE.jpg

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    12. I get why a lot of people wanted Syrio to be alive. But I never understood the number of people who were willing to have the character survive by revealing that he never existed to begin with. Syrio Forel was a hero, who selflessly gave his life to protect an innocent little girl; Jaqen H’ghar may be cool, but he’s an amoral death cultist whose teachings Arya must ultimately reject to embrace her true destiny. The two are really not much alike.

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    13. Dammit D&D! That’s colder than that ice bucket challenge.

      I always thought it was a fun theory. Syrio thrown in the black cells, changes to Jaqen (notice how the other prisoners don’t try and hurt him – I’m picturing a holy shit moment of face changing), emerges and happens to be on the cart Arya hops on…..watches over her at HH. Anyhoo it was kind of a nice idea, but if not, well…..interesting to know why ol J was in the cells. 😉

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    14. Connor:
      Off topic but this thought was in my head for a while now. Has anybody noticed that in both trailers, showing us BastardBowl, that there are many shots of this one white horse running in slow mo, in two different shots but isn’t showing the rider? I have been thinking that it could be Jon Snow…

      Just a thought.

      But anyways, i had no idea that there was a theory that Syrio Forel was a faceless man.

      I think so too. It’s not uncommon in TV or movies to give a main character something that differentiates them from the crowd. It makes spotting them from afar easier (in a hectic scene or one with lots of extras).

      I think there is a theory. Personally I believe his face is up for grabs, since I can’t come up with a reason for why Jaqen was in KL.

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    15. I have to chime in about Maisie not being popular on this site. I think her Arya is probably one of the more popular characters. She is certainly one of my favorites. Maisie, not Arya, might not get as much coverage as others in more “mainstream” media. She isn’t statuesque like Sophie or Gwendolyn or a longtime fandom darling like pre-GoT Lena but she definitely has a huge following.
      Arya is the one of the “main” characters who I look forward to most every season. Maybe because it has held somewhat true to book canon, but even early on, Maisie has delivered a rock solid performance. I am happy D&D have given her consistent goods to work with; even when slow, the evolution of the character has moved forward.

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    16. Edd: George basically said this 20 years ago.

      Can you elaborate? I’ve never heard this. Crushed he is dead on the show whatever that means, but I still had hope in the books. However, if I had to choose between Jaqen and Syrio, I choose Jaqen!

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    17. As for Maisie being unpopular.. I remember a very specific bloke last year that was going on rants on how the writers hated Arya and that she’s unimportant and gets the least screentime as a result.. Which was mostly unfounded characterbashing to be frank, but yeah.

      That and in terms of talkshows, there are others that D&D fly over: Lena, Natalie, Liam, Alfie, Carice, Emilia, Jon and Sansa has been given more shots I believe. Not saying that D&D don’t like Maisie (I think they adore her), but perhaps they think that the other actors are better capable to deal with these type of interviews? Maisie tends to be a good spokeswoman on socialmedia though. She’s definitely one of the primary outlets for GoT on Twitter, as she has a good following on there.

      This site just happens to pick-up interviews a bit better then Maisie’s tweets. An interview or two genuinely can make up an article, but a tweet from Maisie generally finds its way in some news compilation article among many other small tidbits, unless it’s something the fandom is generally hyped about.

      Maelina:
      Bryan Cogman confirmed years ago that Syrio is dead. I’ve never seen the appeal of the Jaqen = Syrio theory, it’s always been completely far-fetched in my opinion. Hopefully people will actually forget about it now that D&D debunked it too.

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    18. Sorry for the off topic but I’ve just read that Iain Glen sorts of confirmed

      that he will be on season 7 in an interview

      Does anyone has the link or has heard about it?

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    19. The Hound himself found unbelievable that the first sword of Braavos was killed by Ser Meryn Trant, and The Hound is dead !! let the mystery be

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    20. I don’t believe it. Syrio = Jaqen in my heart always. 🙂 She’s also said that Jon is dead, dead, dead & gone, dead.

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    21. a to the z,

      I love Maisie! She’s smart and quirky. I have seen some negativity from readers here every now and then about her supposed demeanor. I feel like some people forget she is indeed a teenage girl… Of course she’s going to be sassy sometimes. 🙂 Anyway, that’s a bummer about Syrio! Maybe GRRM has other plans for book Syrio.

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    22. Zeus:
      No he’s seriously dead.He was a cool plot device for Arya.He’s dead

      He really was. I thought the theories were somewhat believeable until I realized that if Syrio isn’t dead, then the Meryn Tyrant assassination would be for nothing, considering he was only on her list for killing Syrio in the first place.

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    23. “Shared dialect”? – I might be slow on the uptake, because it’s almost 1:30 am here, but the dialects of Syrio Forel and Jaqen H’ghar sound nothing alike.

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    24. I was actually hoping the syrio/ jaqen theory would be true…but remember grrm said that he was going to do a twist with one of the characters that died in the show…so maybe…..

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    25. kells,

      I find Maisie to be stunning, and a big part of that is her unique, non-cookie cutter look. Nothing wrong with tall and blonde and willowy, but she has a rare beauty as well as an interest in projects that don’t scream ‘blockbuster’ that i really admire.

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    26. sekkisek,

      No, I’m being serious. Like, the way you wrote it makes it seem like you think Sophie is on some kind of drugs, but that would be a real awful thing to suggest without evidence, so I’m wondering what you actually mean.

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    27. Ser Oromis Locke:
      As for Maisie being unpopular.. I remember a very specific bloke last year that was going on rants on how the writers hated Arya and that she’s unimportant and gets the least screentime as a result.. Which was mostly unfounded characterbashing to be frank, but yeah.

      I remember that guy too. It was bizarre. Looking at the comments in this post, it makes me wonder if there is a group of people who like to try to stir up shit in Maisie posts, because I don’t recognize a lot of these names that are posting some weird things in here. Could just be just because we are near the new season beginning I suppose.

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    28. Pigeon,

      Her career is pretty doomed because of it though. I don’t see something like X-Men in her future. More like corny indie films that will be promptly forgotten about.

        Quote  Reply

    29. We have been trolled on this one for many years. Here’s hoping GRRM ties this one up at some point. I have traditionally been a believer in this theory because the whole explanation would just be terribly convenient and somehow still cool…

      Why was Jaqen in the black cells. That’s all I want to know. C’mon GRRM, there is no chance DnD will revisit this.

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    30. Ugh I hate the Maisie vs Sophie thing and I feel like the op was trying to incite that perhaps. Mophie forever! See??? https://www.instagram.com/p/BEEIYK2Hqiu/?taken-by=maisie_williams&hl=en

      Both are beautiful, young women and frankly they couldn’t be more different. I get the heebie jeebies whenever anyone refers to either of them in a sexual way because they were just wee babies. Men are so weird like that. It would be like all us ladies sitting here going “I can’t wait for Isaac to hit 18. Hubba Hubba.” Wait, is anyone thinking that? haha

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    31. sekkisek:
      Pigeon,

      Her career is pretty doomed because of it though. I don’t see something like X-Men in her future. More like corny indie films that will be promptly forgotten about.

      Oh do shut up, will you? Your posts are laughable and 100% wrong. Look at IMDB. Maisie is going to be playing Wolfsbane in X-Men Generations. Stop talking.

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    32. sekkisek:
      kells,

      Coke is a hell of a drug…

      I believe the quote you’re looking for is

      “Cocaine’s a hell of a drug”

      edit: If you are indeed suggesting Sophie Turner is a coke head- well, I don’t buy it. And anyway, who cares?

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    33. sekkisek,

      To be fair, I haven’t seen many of the movies she has been in (same with Sophie’s, just because a lot of them don’t appeal to me, like I had 0 interest in Barely Lethal), but Maisie’s performance in Cyberbully was absolutely incredible, even if usually films about the subject are cringey as hell. I don’t know how it did commercially, and idk how you measure the ratings for television movies, but critically it did alright.

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    34. sekkisek,

      Yea, I get your point, they are no supermodels, but that just makes them even more attractive in my eyes. Definitely better than 99% of the females in my school.
      Actually, after viewing this image, Sophie might be the best looking woman on the show IMO.
      https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-32qsoBH_Q4/maxresdefault.jpg

      Really curious to know about your tastes.

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    35. One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches:
      sekkisek,

      Yea, I get your point, they are no supermodels, but that just makes them even more attractive in my eyes. Definitely better than 99% of the females in my school.
      Actually, after viewing this image, Sophie might be the best looking woman on the show IMO.
      https://i.ytimg.com/vi/-32qsoBH_Q4/maxresdefault.jpg

      Really curious to know about your tastes.

      Will be my favorite forever: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fc/c7/7f/fcc77fa199b96380c1e7abbaa9c24fe2.jpg

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    36. Laura: Oh do shut up, will you? Your posts are laughable and 100% wrong. Look at IMDB. Maisie is going to be playing Wolfsbane in X-Men Generations. Stop talking.

      Thing is, I’ve never thought of success as measured by standard Hollywood films. The indies, the theatre productions, so many actors and actresses excel their entire lives with ‘smaller’ projects, by choice. I know that I find the stage and the lesser-promoted, non American movies to often be my favourites over the 300th superhero franchise or Nicholas Sparks adaptation or slacker comedy movies. But I enjoy some of those as well (ok maybe not typical chick flicks). It really doesn’t matter as long as actors pursue what interests them. I see Maisie having a long career.

      Laura:
      Ugh I hate the Maisie vs Sophie thing and I feel like the op was trying to incite that perhaps. Mophie forever! See??? https://www.instagram.com/p/BEEIYK2Hqiu/?taken-by=maisie_williams&hl=en

      Both are beautiful, young women and frankly they couldn’t be more different. I get the heebie jeebies whenever anyone refers to either of them in a sexual way because they were just wee babies. Men are so weird like that. It would be like all us ladies sitting here going “I can’t wait for Isaac to hit 18. Hubba Hubba.” Wait, is anyone thinking that? haha

      I’ve never gotten that whole competition that isn’t there either…they’re 2 entirely different people, what would they be competing for???

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    37. ash,

      Feeding trolls and watching them shit can be pretty funny though.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Stirring things,

      Can they get a face that they didn’t actually get. I’m assuming if syrio was killed in KL , his face is still there

      Unless you’re saying Syrios face is in the hall of faces and jaquen became syrio the dancing master

      I don’t know. I always thought there was a connection but I guess I was wrong

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    39. Well, if he is a faceless man then he could be considered “dead.” I mean Jaqen is “dead” too (he said that himself). Damn, dying is so confusing for the faceless men…

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    40. Lyannaes,

      But if it IS HIM – I’d be pretty impressed that HBO is ballsy enough to continuously stress Jon is dead, gone, done, not coming back, finished, out, and then flaunt him in front of us (in a blurry state) in two promos and possibly his leg on a horse in a Winterfell pic…and then there was that shadowy side-face talking to Sansa….

      Oh…maybe that’s how Jon has changed when he’s revived. He’ll just be blurry now.

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    41. Sullied by Knight,

      That would be …. damn impressive.

      I don’t really think it’s him in either this or the shadow-side-face pic (however, a girl can dream, and so I shall), but like you said, that would be ballsy as hell. And it’s probably something that wouldn’t be caught by most viewers – lbr, casual viewers probably aren’t rewatching the trailer three times a day with all the screencaps bookmarked, lol.

      (Although, if ANY of these clips are shown to be Jon, I’m gonna immediately change sides and insist that they’re all him, absolutely, without a doubt lmao)

        Quote  Reply

    42. Lyannaes,

      True! Screen by screen…slo mo…lightened…enlarged…side by side pics for comparisons. Yeah…I’m a little obsessed 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    43. JustanotherSchemer,

      James Hibberd was on set during that battle. And he said that the guy in the trailer is NOT Kit/Jon.

      Cue someone chiming in with “but he’s on HBO’s payroll” blah blah blah. We saw Kit on set with his hair up. He is likely going to have a different look when he is resurrected. And this screenshot of the trailer where Sophie is starring at someone matches the man-bun we saw in the leaked pics. The make-up/hair department would not be letting Kit put his hair up in between shots. It would mess up continuity especially because curly hair frizzes up so easily. So he is going to have a man-bun during the battle too.

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    44. The bit about dialect reminded me of something: Game of Thrones isn’t always consistent with the regional accents of its world, but for a while it did have a commonality in that folks from the free cities tended to be continental European. Cersei even figured out Shae’s city from her accent (German, like Jaquen’s). The problem is Thoros of Myr, who sounds like his background is working class estuary (less extreme than cockney). When Melisandre visits and speaks with him it sounds like Valyrian is foreign to him and westerosi native.

      Speaking of Maisie’s other roles, I recall a while back hearing that Maisie was the first choice for an adaptation of The Last of Us, but I don’t know when that’s ever expected to start filming.

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    45. Rygritte:
      Edd,
      “draw your own conclusions” to me suggests he ain’t dead.

      A: Is Syrio dead?
      GRRM: I don’t know why people ask me this. He was in an impossible situation and can be killed… draw your own conclusions.

      That suggests he’s alive to you?

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    46. No, he is dead.

      Love Maisie but I really don’t think that we can trust Benioff or Weiss as to who is alive and who is not. Just sayin’

      Break out the tin foil hats!

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    47. Connor: i had no idea that there was a theory that Syrio Forel was a faceless man.

      There’s pretty much a fan theory about everything and everyone in the series.

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    48. FictionIsntReal: Speaking of Maisie’s other roles, I recall a while back hearing that Maisie was the first choice for an adaptation of The Last of Us, but I don’t know when that’s ever expected to start filming.

      Pretty sure that never happened. Maisie even said before S5 that she’s had no news about it in awhile and that she was probably too old to play the part now, anyway.

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    49. I’m pretty sure Sansa was talking to Benjen in that trailer (he saves Meera) and Syrio is still alive, fm or no.
      Both books and show rarely shy away from the opportunity to throw death in our face, but those two just slipped out of frame with (basically) “1st sword of Braavos against f-ing Meryn Trant?!” and “Halfhand survived a winter beyond the wall and Benjen knows the area better than anyone in NW”

      Yes, not everyone is a secret targ or able to be resurrected, but no one can deny those two were both left loopholes to come back…which of course makes me think they’re coming back. 🙂

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    50. Ravyn,

      That movie is in what’s called “development hell”. They haven’t worked on the movie in nearly 2 years. And Maisie already said it’s very unlikely it’ll ever get made and unlikely she’ll be in it if it ever does. Maisie is already too old for the role.

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    51. I never believed that Jaqen = Syrio. But I always thought Jaqen was in the Black Cells because he wanted to be there, for some reason. I wonder if we will ever find out why he was in the Cell.

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    52. I feel satisfied that as much of a badass as Syrio may have been, he couldn’t just fight off five armored knights with a wooden stick. He’s not Morgan from Walking Dead. Benjen, on the other hand, definitely needs resolution. You don’t just disappear the first ranger and never explain what happened at all. Plus, if Rickon really does eat it and Bran is stuck forever in that cave or incapable of conceiving because of his paralysis or whatever, if the Night’s Watch ultimately dissolves, Benjen is the one person left who can continue the Stark line if he actually is still out there somewhere.

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    53. Oh Lord. I wasn’t even aware of this fan theory. It hasn’t even crossed my mind that Syrio could have been a faceless man / Jaquen. I always thought that, well, he died.
      Do I live on a different planet???
      This is one reason why it’s so fun hanging around here: since I’ve started visiting this blog, I have learnt a ton of things. Some (or a lot) of it maybe tinfoil, but a lot of fun!

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    54. FictionIsntReal:
      Speaking of Maisie’s other roles, I recall a while back hearing that Maisie was the first choice for an adaptation of The Last of Us, but I don’t know when that’s ever expected to start filming.

      I would love that to have come to fruition (TLOU is my favourite videogame of all time, and Ellie one of the best characters ever). but time has moved on and I think Maisie is now just a little too old for the role – which she has admitted herself fairly recently.

      I think she may never be in the “big” movies of which so many are made to simply try and win awards but that is not by itself a bad thing. She has said that she doesn’t want to play romantic leads or simply be a male character’s other half and sadly that in itself rules out many starring roles. Nothing wrong IMO with choosing roles for personal appeal rather than trying to break through as a “star”. Transition to adult roles from teenager roles may be harder (because of perception) but she won’t be the first to face that tricky progression, and she does have real talent. I can’t recall names but I have seen some younger teenagers on TV recently that could be excellent for the role but the history of videogame to movie conversions is not a happy one, so it could be a blessing.

      As for Maisie hate, there are very few posters here who come back to make trolling posts but I think one has posted under many usernames (same style and use of language – yes people CAN tell!).

      I think she’s great, and GRRM was won over by her when she visited his movie theatre to meet fans which should be enough for any GoT/ASOIAF fan 🙂

      And Syrio = Jaqen? No, never believed it for one minute.

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    55. Arya is my favourite character in the books, and although I don’t think she has been quite as well served by the show in the last two seasons, I think that Maisie has done a great job of portraying her. I’ve also enjoyed Maisie’s acting in “The Falling” and “Doctor Who”, so I am definitely a fan.

      I’ve been surprised how little recognition Faye Marsay has got for the excellent job she does playing The Waif. She’s a strong antagonist for Arya in the series. If you want to see Faye Marsay in a much bigger role, check out the excellent move “Pride”.

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    56. Bufferzone:
      Arya is my favourite character in the books, and although I don’t think she has been quite as well served by the show in the last two seasons, I think that Maisie has done a great job of portraying her. I’ve also enjoyed Maisie’s acting in “The Falling” and “Doctor Who”, so I am definitely a fan.

      I’ve been surprised how little recognition Faye Marsay has got for the excellent job she does playing The Waif. She’s a strong antagonist for Arya in the series. If you want to see Faye Marsay in a much bigger role, check out the excellent move “Pride”.

      Faye Marsay is great, and this is frankly a thankless role as a nemesis she has to play (from what we’ve seen so far). Bet she’s lovely in real life and Teesiders are proud of her!

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    57. Pigeon,

      Have you watched Gold and The Falling? I have watched them on Cinemaxx and made me think that Maisie has a bright career ahead. Cyberbully impressed me the most, she’s a great talent.

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    58. Bufferzone,

      She is funny and bubbly and cute! Also, she mentions once again that Arya does not have a big presence in S6. Hmm..I guess it will be 6 episodes again.

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    59. Sorry, didn’t know where else to put this and I’m wanting to discuss it before I forget 🙂
      Below are excerpts from book AGOT that I found on-line. I looked it up after seeing the part of trailer with 3-eyed raven staring at aftermath tower of joy, because he seems to have a pained expression. After reading these, I am convinced there’s more to the TOJ backstory than just Ned keeping a child identity secret. Look at what Cercei tells him, the context of what she said and how afterwards he thought of Lyanna and wanted to weep. I don’t think it’s just mourning his sister, that would be a given and not written about with the imagery it is. It seems to do with some kind of guilt

      As they came together in a rush of steel and shadow, he could hear Lyanna screaming. “Eddard!” she called. A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.
      AGOT p425

      Her {Cersei’s} eyes burned, green fire in the dusk, like the lioness that was her sigil. “The night of our wedding feast, the first time we shared a bed, he called me by your sister’s name. He was on top of me, in me, stinking of wine, and he whispered Lyanna.”
      Ned thought of pale blue roses, and for a moment he wanted to weep.
      AGOT p480

      “Promise me, Ned,” Lyanna’s statue whispered. She wore a garland of pale blue roses, and her eyes wept blood.

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    60. Ugh, here we go again with the abusive Faceless Men. I can’t wait to see s6 but I’m honestly not looking forward to the not-so-well-thought-out Braavos storyline that hasn’t had any other purpose than make Arya suffer and maybe become more homicidal.

      I never believed in the Syrio=Jaqen theory, the timeline and motivations just never made sense to me. And almost everybody likes Maisie and Arya, I just hope she gets better material this season. I’m tired of Arya being (most of the time) either the comic relief character or the homicidal psychotic little girl that the viewers adore just because she’s badass.

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    61. Ygritte,

      Oh definitely. Even when Ned’s in the cells he thinks of:

      He slept and woke and slept again. He did not know which was more painful, the waking or the sleeping. When he slept, he dreamed: dark disturbing dreams of blood and broken promises. (Eddard XV)

      So imo he’s definitely made Lyanna a series of promises, some of which he couldn’t keep. Keeping the child’s identity a secret was something he managed, but there has to be more. I’m curious to see what the show will go with.

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    62. Ygritte,

      Imo it’s all about Ned’s honour and the weeping of what might have been. Nothing would have pleased Ned more than his beloved sister marrying his best friend. I’m sure that for Ned Lyanna’s eloping meant a great stain on her and his own honour. I don’t know whether he was aware of her eloping from the beginning, but I’m sure he found out everything at the Tower of Joy. I can hardly wait to see Lyanna and her story!

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    63. Pigeon:
      Dammit D&D! That’s colder than that ice bucket challenge.

      I always thought it was a fun theory. Syrio thrown in the black cells, changes to Jaqen (notice how the other prisoners don’t try and hurt him – I’m picturing a holy shit moment of face changing), emerges and happens to be on the cart Arya hops on…..watches over her at HH. Anyhoo it was kind of a nice idea, but if not, well…..interesting to know why ol J was in the cells.

      The thing is we were already told in the books that there were three men in the Black Cells prior to the massacre of the Stark household.

      So if Syrio was captured and thrown in there he would then have to kill the original Jaqen (who obviously in this scenario isn’t a FM) and take his face, somehow dispose of the body and then have the Guards not realise they only had three prisoners when they should have had four.

      If Syrio had replaced Jaqen it (which I don’t believe he did) it would make more sense if he actually escaped KL and then replaced Jaqen at some point early in the journey north.

      Strangely enough the show actually added to the Syrio is alive theory. When Arya is running from the room we get to hear (from behind her) the sound of a metal sword hitting stone. As Trant was the only one still standing with a metal sword it sounds like he has been disarmed by Syrio.

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    64. I love Arya, she is one of my favorite characters. I want her story to move forward a little more, so I can understand how she ties in to the overall story/ending.
      And yes, I want her to continue to murder people off her list. Maybe she will get Walder Frey, since I have seen him in the trailer, and have no idea who else would get him. Arya was there when it happened and I think she should get the revenge!

      Ah GOT, morals and ethics get thrown out the window with you!

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    65. Syrio is dead in the books and in the series as well, because ”The First Sword of Braavos does not run.” So he fights with Meryn Trant and his gang. Trant survived their fight, so Sírio doesn’t.

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    66. Why would show runners reveal potential WTF moment before it has been revealed. Kind of like Jon Snow resurrection it could be at the end of Aryas story. I am sure there is some connection between Syrio and the faceless men.

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    67. r-hard: Syrio is dead in the books and in the series as well, because ”The First Sword of Braavos does not run.” So he fights with Meryn Trant and his gang. Trant survived their fight, so Sírio doesn’t.

      That’s all there was to it, to me. Syrio wouldn’t run. Meryn survived. So Syrio is dead.

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    68. Sean C.:
      I get why a lot of people wanted Syrio to be alive.But I never understood the number of people who were willing to have the character survive by revealing that he never existed to begin with.Syrio Forel was a hero, who selflessly gave his life to protect an innocent little girl; Jaqen H’ghar may be cool, but he’s an amoral death cultist whose teachings Arya must ultimately reject to embrace her true destiny.The two are really not much alike.

      This. And I am sure others have mentioned that Arya’s vengeance on Trant doesn’t mean much if Syrio was still alive. Trant had armour and a big fucking sword, as the Hound so eloquently worded it.

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    69. I personally love the Arya Character .. so I don’t think she’s unpopular? she has quite a following..

      But just because they said no he’s dead to her, doesn’t mean he’s dead… they are known to lie ..

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    70. Flayed Potatoes,
      Shy Lady Dragon

      I had typed a lengthy reply but my laptop shut down 🙁 Im not sure why its doing that, anyways the gist of it was

      Could a promise have been for Ned to declare baby Jon as heir only the Lannisters seiged the place and his best friend Robert took the throne and declared Targaryens his enemy so Ned could not find it in him to go against him, or rather, he obviously couldnt at that point.

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    71. Ygritte,

      I have no idea, especially since we don’t know much about Lyanna and her wishes and plans.

      She could have made him promise to tell Jon the truth about her and Rhaegar, and Ned knows he won’t be able to fulfill it because he’s imprisoned and dying, and also because he doesn’t know what Jon will do when he finds out (which is probably why Jon joining the NW and giving up lands and crowns would make it possible for Ned to tell him). He also promised Jon he would tell him, but now he can’t. So that’s two broken promises.

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    72. Flayed Potatoes,

      Another idea came to mind thinking about that imagery of

      Ned hearing Lyanna scream as the sound of battle going on and immediately after blood streaked sky and roses flying across?? Coul# she have been accidentally killed at the battle?

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    73. Edd,

      Fan Rules for Contradictions of Crazy Conjectures:

      1) Evidence in the books/episodes/films against the idea have not been “verified” by the author(s);

      2) Verifications by the author can be dismissed as lies OR turned on their heads by creative misdefining of key words;

      3) Contradictions on show or film adaptations mean nothing because Peter Jackson understand JK Rowling infinitely less than I do.

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    74. Ygritte,

      Given the circumstances, it probably was something very simple such as “raise him as your own” or even “protect him.” It probably was something to which Ned could reflexively say “yes” given Thou Shalt do Everything for Family before realizing that this promise contradicted several other vows. That is the basis for GRRM’s theory of story.

      And, again, look for this to be huge when Jon has his finger on the button (or at least a button) at the apex.

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    75. Ygritte,

      I think she’s either giving birth at that moment, or she’s dying after a difficult birth. He wouldn’t have any reason to kill her and the KG were protecting her.

      We also have to consider that the scene we’re getting is told via a dream Ned has (I think he had taken milk of the poppy after he got injured in that fight with Jaime), hence the flying blue rose petals, and all the embellishment.

      Theon has a dream while he’s in Winterfell in ACOK about the dead Starks and one of them is described as:

      “But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna.” (Theon V)

      So she’s always associated with blue roses (and we even got that on the show when LF was telling Sansa about the tourney in season 5). Theon doesn’t even know Lyanna, but she appears to him in his dream with the same symbolism as in Ned’s, so she’s easily recognizable to the reader.

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    76. Ygritte,

      I think she simply died of complications after child-birth. About unfulfilled promises, I agree with Wimsey and Flayed Potatoes.

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    77. Wimsey:
      Ygritte,

      Given the circumstances, it probably was something very simple such as “raise him as your own” or even “protect him.

      I could see the show going for “raise him as your own” as the promise, so viewers (and Bran) will put all the pieces together and realize who she’s talking about.

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    78. Ignore that a-to-the-z person, they’re a chronic troll who is obsessed with Maisie and her popularity levels. Yet another name to add to their ban pile.

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    79. Flayed Potatoes,

      That’d work 🙂 I can’t wait for this scene! And about the 3 eyes-raven, I’m sure he’s seen a lot in his long “life” so whatever he’s watching there I’m really curious about because he looks almost teary-eyed. Maybe it’s misdirection his reacting to TOJ events and what he’s really seeing is something with the WW on the march.

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    80. Sue the Fury:
      Ignore that a-to-the-z person, they’re a chronic troll who is obsessed with Maisie and her popularity levels. Yet another name to add to their ban pile.

      Be gentle now, some folks have no impact on the world other than trolling; it must be very hard on them to realise that happy and admirable Maisie has achieved greater things in a few years and more talent in her little finger* than they can ever aspire to in their whole sorry life.

      * Not a Baelish reference 🙂

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    81. Wimsey:
      Edd,

      Fan Rules for Contradictions of Crazy Conjectures:

      1) Evidence in the books/episodes/films against the idea have not been “verified” by the author(s);

      2) Verifications by the author can be dismissed as lies OR turned on their heads by creative misdefining of key words;

      3) Contradictions on show or film adaptations mean nothing because Peter Jackson understand JK Rowling infinitely less than I do.

      THIS. I think that is it just easier to “make up” what someone didn’t see happen or didn’t happen as they wanted it to, into some sort of theory on how it really could be true to happen as they see it. Regardless of what the author, showrunners or actors say, because they ALL lie, all the time. *eye rolls*

      Brynden BFish did a huge theory quiz that many people took and so far I think out of all the theories only a few have been close to right the rest have been debunked from logic or proof by author, still people will believe what makes them feel good.

      I am holding on to the theory that we don’t know what happens with Jon Snow and I think it is going to leave a lot of people scratching their heads going….I didn’t see that coming! Or, Oh yeah, I knew it but just didn’t say it. But it will show that no one lied about Jon Snow being dead.

      I think I have to go and hide from being pelted with big smelly salmons of correction now.

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    82. Ygritte,

      I honestly think he’s looking at the ToJ because of the scenery. I’m so excited to see the event unfold and to see Bloodraven as well, especially since he’s being played by such a legend.

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    83. Flayed Potatoes,

      sorry for the long winded that follows

      I re-watched season 1 last night. Something Benjen said to Jon that I missed before. Jon was telling him how he was a bastard and wasn’t inside the party because Kat thought his presence would “upset” the King and his court (yeah because he is the spitting image of Lyanna and Robert would probably notice this…he also was not at the arrival with all the other children) He tells Benjen he wants to join him and take the black. Benjen tells him you don’t want to take our vows, you DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD BE GIVING UP. you can’t have LAND OR TITLES, you can’t marry OR FATHER CHILDREN. John then says that’s not IMPORTANT. Benjen says IT WOULD BE IMPORTANT TO YOU IF YOU KNEW WHAT IT MEANT. Why would land, titles, and fathering children be important to a bastard who has NO NAME. HMMMM. Then in subsequent scenes with Robert when he mentions Dany and killing her even though shes a child Robert says he will kill all Targ’s…Ned looks away. Then in a scene with Kat she says Ned left for Robert 17 years ago and returned with another woman’s child (Jon)…Ned looks away. Did D&D tell us the truth from the beginning and we all just missed it.

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    84. Lyrad,

      Don’t worry 🙂

      Jon was there when Robert arrived, but he was in the back, so I doubt anyone noticed him. D&D did a good job of inserting a lot of hints which aren’t obvious when you’re first watching the show (and even less so if you don’t know the theory), just like the ones you mentioned.

      This is a good video with all the hints on the show:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xaspBsfgRg

      I’ve always wondered if Benjen knew or suspected anything. His disappearance was very convenient from a narrative standpoint. This season would be a good one to bring him back, if he’s alive.

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    85. Lyrad,

      I always thought that was capable of two meanings …

      One is that jon would never know the love of a women or the thrill of children and the other what you suggest … both are not mutually exclusive

      It’s intersting that in ADWD, Jon is thinking about Stannis’ offer and Val and how he could “kidnap” her as wildlings do and that his greatest desire would be to be a father … which is heartwrenching as I don’t think resurrected men can father children … but what do I know?

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    86. Jon is seen on a white horse (from a distance) in one of the shots from the battle at winterfell however Jamie is also shown on a white horse in the riverlands.

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    87. hodor,

      Exactly what I was thinking. As if they are going to come out reveal something before they have a chance to air it.

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    88. The showrunners stating “No, he is dead” is meaningless in the world of Faceless Men. Faceless men get their faces from dead people – the real Syrio Forel may have died thousands of years ago for all we know, and a FM like Jaqen may have been simply wearing his face.

      We did not see Syrio die onscreen, and while assuming that he was killed we could also just as easily assume that he was dragged off to the black dungeon where he changed faces into Jaqen H’ghar,

      I prefer the Syrio/Jaqen face change theory – this would explain how Jaqen end up in the black cells to be taken to the wall by Yoren. Who commissioned the FM and for what purpose? My guess is Illyrio, spurred by whispers by Varys’s little birds. Illyrio and Varys were both trying to get Viserys Targaryen on the Iron Throne at that time, and may have heard a “whisper” about Jon Snow’s true parentage. They would be aware that Ned Stark knows this too, and have hired a FM to kill Ned but Joffrey did the deed for them, so Jaqen may have been going to the wall to kill Jon and remove any possible claim to the throne. It’s also possible that Cersei hired the FM for a similar motive, that of ensuring her offspring were not challenged.

      My two cents, and for me this ties up the questions nicely.

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    89. I call BS. Jon was “dead” too, because he -was- dead. That doesn’t mean he stayed dead, and it also was misleading anyway given his “death” wasn’t death as he came back. The writers are not going to be upfront about anything, it’s part of the job.

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