Maisie Williams on the end of Arya and how Game of Thrones changed her life

Maisie Williams

Photographs: Perou/The Guardian

Maisie Williams looks ahead at Game of Thrones season 5 and looks back at the recent years of her rise to fame, in The Guardian.

The 17-year-old actress will be starring in the drama Cyber Bully for Channel 4 in the UK, and has plenty of inspiration to draw from, in her own life.

Maisie tells The Guardian of how jealousy from her classmates brought about bullying and rough times for her as her fame and that of the show’s grew. She received messages calling her “stuckup”, and saying that she thought was “too good for everyone else.”

“There were people all around me. And I was just stuck in my phone, stuck in this constant stream of what people thought of me.” She also says, “No one ever said anything to my face, ever. It was awful.”

As for the future of Arya Stark on Game of Thrones, Maisie reports, “There’s a big ending for Arya,” in season 5. “They’re basically breaking her down, and you get to see behind the cracks.”

She confirms in the interview that they are coming to the end of Arya’s book material, as she understands it. (The actress doesn’t read the books for now, to avoid getting confused about storylines.) “We’re coming to the end now, so I don’t know what they’re going to do next year,” Williams says. “It’s the end of Arya, as far as anyone knows.”

For more on her thoughts on feminism and her close relationship with her mother, check out the full article at The Guardian.

104 responses

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    1. Mormont:
      Man that title freaked me out

      Probably gonna be the most entertaining storyline, other than maybe Cersei

      My ranking
      1)Stannis/Jon/Mance/Aemon/Boltons
      2)Tyrion/Varys
      3) Arya in Braavos
      4) Cersei/Kings Landing
      5) jaime/bronn
      6) sansa
      7) Brienne and pod

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    2. Turncloak,

      I don’t know how I forgot about Tyrion. I’m really interested in him, too, especially in the TV show, where his ADWD arc will apparently have a climax, as opposed to the books. Also, the addition of Varys, who is probably my favorite secondary character, is just golden.

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    3. Good for her for keeping a head about her when all others are losing theirs. I well remember jr hi and didn’t think I could survive it. And if the net was around back then there is a good possibility I wouldn’t have. Having someone young and famous talking about it publicly is going to help many children in her situation, and perhaps make the adults more aware of whats going on. You go, girl!

      As for her story line, Im wondering if Mercy is going to be at the end. I can’t imagine killing her off, just making her character change so its unrecognizable from where she started (and it already is! Look how young she is in that Guardian photo!)

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    4. Very interesting article. It’s too bad she had to put up with the social media abuse. It’s hard enough being a teen, imagine being one who has to put up wit this kind of thing.

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    5. I like that kid, she’s got her head screwed on. I can’t even imagine how much crap I’d have been spouting if I’d been interviewed at 17.
      God that wait for season 5 and any info about is just never-ending!!!

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    6. Arya and Cersei will champion season 5 fo sho. I would add Theon to the list, but it looks like they are doing something completely different from the books which is a shame. The Wall takes second place because it’s ripe for great character interactions.

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    7. She knows that Ayra’s end will be big! I really hope she doesn’t stay in Braavos then because for me a big ending for her is not Braavos related lol

      Hollyoak,

      Interesting you should mention social media abuse. Just the other day I read her on TW exposing an account sending her abusing tweets and death threats. Sure, probability of completing them is small to insignificant but that’s besides the point. I won’t even go into what crap she’s been given about her GoT remarks.

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    8. Luka Nieto: I’m really interested in him, too, especially in the TV show, where his ADWD arc will apparently have a climax, as opposed to the books.

      Well, he is ascending at the end: we just have more ascendancy to see (I suspect). My guess is that we’ll still be getting him on the rise: which will seem like a climax. We probably will get a very parallel storyline for Theon, too.

      jentario: Arya and Cersei will champion season 5 fo sho

      Arya, yes. I’m not too sure about Cersei: although hopefully streamlining her storyline from the books will improve it. Sansa’s storyline has the potential to be interesting, too: I expect the same arc, but starting from a higher point. As for Theon, I doubt that the actual storyline will deviate from the books, even if the plot details do. Indeed, I can see the storyline being amplified: that one could be quite riveting.

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    9. Wimsey,

      Alfie can make taking a shit riveting. If you’re always going to impose upon us your self righteousness you might at least give some respect to the best actor on the show.

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    10. Grr little punks… Well those sorts people never go far in the world, or at least they are unhappy regardless of how rich they are.

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    11. Turncloak,

      Interesting that you don’t have Dany, don’t have Jorah and put Stannis, Jon, Aemon, Mance, and the Boltons in one category for S5. 🙂

      Regarding the Northern storylines, I would think that during S5 those characters in your #1 would constitute at least 2 major storylines, maybe 3 by mid-season.

      Speculation:

      1) Aemon dies at CB.
      2) After “Fetch me a block”, Mance goes southwest with Stannis while Davos goes southeast with Sam to treat with Umbers/Manderlys
      3) Mance goes ahead of Stannis to infiltrate Winterfell
      4) Jon commands CB, interacts with Mel; building tension with wildlings (and giants?); news of Hardhome and several go with Tormund to inspect
      5) Boltons prep for Ramsay’s wedding at Winterfell; Northern Lords participate in a mummery of allegiance; Reek starts showing signs of Theon again at Winterfell, with moments of clarity.
      6) Mance & Theon meet during the wedding
      7) Theon saves someone (or kills someone) and escapes; Mance is caught
      8) Stannis approaches Winterfell and “For the Watch” ends the season; maybe Davos/Sam also discover something about Rickon/Bran

      Where does Yara come into the picture? I’m punting on that one.

      Finally, I find it interesting/sad that Jaime/Bronn are now considered the Dorne storyline.

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    12. SPOILERS

      When i think the storylines this year -stannis and the wall still rocks, arya in bravos, dark sansa, dorne, theon and winterfell, deanerys’ wedding and begining of mereen war and of course the pit, tyrion and jorah,tyrion and deanerys’ meeting,reading sam and aemon was really enjoying but i dont know if they take the journey this year- it will be a perfect season but please storylines are amazing and dont make us watch empty talks like bugs. Season 4 was good but could be much much better. I hope we wont see stupid scenes and will get a great season.

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    13. From set pictures posted here earlier, we can intuit that S5 includes the TWOW “Mercy” chapter, so the show really could work through all of Arya’s book material this season.

      It’s unrealistic to hope that The Winds Of Winter will be published prior to the start of S5, but hopefully before S6. Otherwise, book readers and non book readers alike will both be unsullied for a change…

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    14. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I never even considered

      Sam and Davos trips being combined, but I think it would be great. Not sure why Sam would be chosen to go with Davos though.

      But overall, if the Northern storyline goes like this, I’ll be very pleased.

      Maybe Yara will be doing something completely different? If they had Yara stick around instead of going back to Pyke then Stannis could have captured her, but now I don’t know.

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    15. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Maybe Yara’s not in this season. I mean the Greyjoys seem to be completely missing and Gemma has beeing doing some other projects if her twitter feed is any proof of that. Funny that her last GoT tweet (if I recall correctly) was posing with K. Nairn at some con, saying that’s the last time she was seen alive LOL

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    16. ash,

      The Mercy ending for her arc in S5 will be incredible. Really looking forward to seeing Maisie stand on her own as Arya in the HoB&W, without the Hound in the foreground.

      Trant is a dead man walking. I hope she gives him a bloody reminder of Syrio as well. The events leading to that scene should be great as well. Maybe Jaqen will make an appearance.

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    17. brandone jackson,

      Yeah…both Sam and Davos are somewhat unknowns in S5, imho.

      1) Does Sam have a need to escape with Gilly since there is no baby swap? Does he have a need to go to Oldtown based on what Aemon might divulge to him before he dies?

      2) Davos never got this far north in ASoS. Will he get back southeast and have those amazing discussions/discoveries with Manderly? Will he stumble across Rickon? I hope so.

      3) If Sam and Davos have a need to get out of CB, I would think they would go together, initially, if only to build support for Stannis’ cause and to serve as info dissemination about the situation beyond the wall & wildling factor.

      4) I would enjoy seeing an Osha/Davos meet up in the show and books. 🙂

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    18. Strider,

      Gemma said in the past she films in NI this year, so she’ll be definitely in.

      I really think it’s quite important for her to end up with Stannis and especially Theon, so I guess her storyline (or at least its outcome) this season will be similar to it in the books, even without her uncles.

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    19. Mine is the Furry: Alfie can make taking a shit riveting. If you’re always going to impose upon us your self righteousness you might at least give some respect to the best actor on the show.

      1. At the risk of being pedantic, I am not “self-righteous.” Instead, what I am is *drumroll*….. pedantic! 🙂

      2. I was not dissing Allen (or Headey, if that is what you thought). I doubt that bowel movements will ever be riveting – although, who knows, maybe defexposition will be the new sexposition of cable series – I find his work to be very good. Between his acting, the scripting and the source material, they have succeeded in making Theon an interesting “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” character that’s both very hard to like and yet also very hard to hate. However, even if you cannot sympathize with him, we can empathize with him: who among us has not felt (at some point) like an outsider or that we have been forced to choose between pleasing one important person or a different important person in our lives? From what little we’ve gleaned for how his storyline and plotline will be handled, it looks like they might be amping it up a bit: and that’s great.

      3. If you thought that I was dissing Headey, then, no, I wasn’t. I was dissing the unnecessarily large amounts of narrative we got for Cersei in Crows. It is possible to over-tell a story: and Martin overtold on Cersei in Crows. (I am in the camp that thinks that Crows+Dragons combined with judicious editing would have been a great book.) I am sure that Ms. Headey will play her part very well: and as the show elevated her to a protagonist before the books did, the audience will be used to it. I think that her bloated storyline from the book will work much better streamlined: but I still am worried that it will get too much presence. The heart of the story is in Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Arya (and maybe Sansa): Cersei’s and Jaime’s stuff is more of an important artery than the heart.

      Hodor’s Bastard: Turncloak,

      Interesting that you don’t have Dany, don’t have Jorah and put Stannis, Jon, Aemon, Mance, and the Boltons in one category for S5.

      This might reflect an old division in the fandom dating back to the 1990’s. Even back then, there were a lot of fans who just didn’t get Dany, and who really rejected the idea that she was the #1 protagonist of the story. Reasons really varied. Some of it was good old-fashioned sexism (although I am not accusing Turncloak of this): insecure males who like a world with docile women have always represented a vocal minority in fantasy fanbases, and they hate characters like Dany. Part of it was that some people like “European” medieval worlds: for some reason, ale and feces-laden mud appeal to them whereas spiced foods and deserts do not. (I get the ale: not the feces-laden mud: and I am quite fond of deserts and spicy food.) Another part was the group that thought that there was supposed to be “good” and “evil” in this world, and that the Targaryens were supposed to be “evil” in their minds. And part of it was infatuation with other characters: Robb Stark in particular had a huge fan base.

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    20. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I am betting that they will anastomize Sam’s & Davos’ lines. Both are lesser protagonists, but both are interesting characters, too. In a way, they are very complimentary, and they could work well together.

      One thing to keep in mind regarding Davos’ is that

      Rickon is much older on TV than he is in the books; therefore, it won’t be as important for an adult to return him: he can return himself when the time is right.

      That, it turn, frees them up to tell Davos’ story in a different setting.

      As for Yara,

      obviously they are not elevating her to a POV protagonist like the books do. She might lead Ironmen south and east to Dany; she might be captured by the Boltons and play a role in her brother going from Reek -> Theon; she might wind up with Stannis “off-camera” and just turn up with him.

      There are several possibilities, and they did work her into the last two seasons, so I expect that they intend to keep the character in the long haul.

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    21. Hodor’s Bastard: The Mercy ending for her arc in S5 will be incredible. Trant is a dead man walking. The events leading to that scene should be great as well. Maybe Jaqen will make an appearance.

      Jaqen will find Trant’s body, look up at the ramparts, and see Arya casually eating an apple. She will put a single finger to her face and draw an emo tear.

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    22. Rygritte,
      Do you think that

      they will meld Trant and the Insurance CEO? Of course, given the world’s present mood (outside of some circles in the US), I could see them using some Bravosian version of a Wall Street investor!

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    23. Rygritte,

      Oh, you are quite the dramatist! Would love to see that changeup…but Jaqen will probably be pulling the strings in Braavos.

      I could see Trant’s corpse being involuntarily added to the end of the stage play, for all to see, including Mace and Tycho.

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    24. Hodor’s Bastard,

      Sam, Davos, and Yara are the great mysteries of this season, along with Sansa and Brienne. If we had caught a glimpse of Sam filming it’d be much easier to get a feel for if he’s in Braavos or staying in the North, and it’s be much easier to know what Davos was up to if we had gotten a Manderly casting, but we have neither.

      My initial thought was that Sam/Gilly/Aemon would initially travel with Davos to Whote Harbor, that way Sallador could continue on as their ride to Braavos after they drop off Davos, and he could take on the role of the Summer Islanders Sam travels with, but with no Northern lords cast at all, Davos’ plot, to whatever extent it exists, will have to happen with the already-established Umbers, who wouldn’t require boat travel at all, so that’s out. So if Oldtown is important, Sam will have to go off on his own, and if it’s not, he can either stay at SB or travel with Davos. They definitely seemed to foreshadow him and Gilly going somewhere together last season though. And, of course, Davos could just stay with Stannis the whole time, and there’s no negotiation with Northern lords at all.

      For Yara, they must have something planned, since otherwise they would have just killed her off when they had the chance to last season, but we’ve seen no filming and didn’t get any casting on characters who would be involved with her, so I don’t know. I guess it just hinges on whether they have time to take Stannis on a detour to capture her, or going to have to go really quickly with him. I don’t think they would do a plot with her that doesn’t involve eventually intersecting with some main cast, and I reeeeeaaaally doubt they’d go through the plot gymnastics that would be necessary to send her to Meereen, so I think something will happen up North for her.

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    25. Wimsey,

      Regarding Dany….sort of…

      After reading ASoI&F, the first three D&E tales, the various Targ short stories from the past 5 years (incl TP&tQ and the Rogue Prnce) and TWoI&F, I am 90% convinced that GRRM is a total Targ enthusiast and all other Westeros “houses” are supporting the long term dance of dragons, including the Targs return to power (symbolized in AGoT by the hatching of the dragon eggs). I would argue that ASoI&F is a tale of the interim period between Targ rule.

      GRRM has Targ and Targ supporters placed everywhere: BR, Aemon, Jon, Aegon, Dany, JonCon, Varys, Martells, Daynes, Illyrio…with Jorah, Selmy, and even Tyrion coming on board.

      GRRM seems to love abusing the Starks and showing the Targs as maturing/growing in knowledge/power (Jon is combo of both). Maybe that is his angle and intentional misdirection in this tale, which I would love, but he seems to find more fascination in telling the Targ tales. As much as I would like to see the Starks get their vengeance and respect throughout Westeros, they are a supporting set of arcs in the bigger picture. They are not destined to sit on the ultimate throne, imho…

      unless Jon is outed as a Targ and truly becomes his father’s protege.

      Heck, even his latest ASoI&F book seemed to address the coming Targ storms (A Dance of Dragons indicates the three active Targs and BR). We’ll see where TWoW takes us but I fully believe the dance will continue and the time for wolves will either lead to ultimate iron throne chaos or a return to Targ rule.

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    26. afeastfordances,

      I guess I rather enjoy not knowing what is to become of them at this point. A bold (and risky) step for D&D.

      If I had my druthers, I would have kept Yara as a Ramsay captive, giving Theon/Reek an incentive for lucidity at Winterfell. Yara’s 7000 mile journey (each way!) just confuses me. If I was on her crew, I would mutiny.

      I just hope they give Davos something interesting to do and I hope Aemon divulges something critical to Sam before he dies. I just don’t see a Braavos detour. I secretly hope for a critical Manderly moment and plot (as Turncloak linked to in a previous thread).

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    27. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I agree with you for the most part, although I would phrase it a little differently. What the Targaryens seem to be is prone to greatness. That can be very good or very bad, depending on whether the gods flip the “sane” or “crazy” head of the coin. (I mean “greatness” in the absolute sense: it’s how much you affect the world, be it for good or bad.)

      I think that this adds to the power of telling the story with Dany. She’s already accomplished great things: villainous or heroic, depending on who’s side you take. However, Dany also is a young lady who, despite greatness, wants to be a young lady. That is great for conflict: duty to the cause and duty to yourself often are at odds. The show obviously has played a bit with that, too.

      You are right that Martin uses the Starks very differently. The Starks have their share of greatness, too. However, their rigid moral code often hurts them and actually works against what their morality supports. What we’ve seen from them is increasing flexibility, and an increasing realization that if you want to reach the heights, then sometimes you have to run downhill for a little while. Arya shows this immediately, but Jon follows pretty quickly, then Bran, and now Sansa is finally starting to show it. In the books and on TV, Robb’s inability to do this is in one way or another is the death of him; Ned himself dies because he compromises on the wrong value (eradicating your enemies) and upholds the wrong one (not counting a woman as an enemy) when it counts.

      I don’t think that we were supposed to see the Starks ever as players for the big throne. (I know that fans did 15 years ago: many thought that Robb would become King of Westeros, perhaps with Dany as his queen. That idea has been pretty well scuttled!) The Starks want Winterfell back, and both TV and books are setting up an interesting three-way fight there. The bigger issue for speculation is: who will the three surviving & ambulatory Starks support for that bigger throne? And will we start to see the roots of different allegiances in Season 5? Given both TV and books, one could easily imagine Arya being drawn to Dany as a sort of role-model. We know who is in proximity to Rickon. That makes Sansa the really big wildcard: and because she only has just started to evolve as a characters, she’s the biggest wildcard of all right now.

      Regarding Jon, I really hope that Martin finally reveals his parentage in Winter and that it comes out before Season 7; that way, the TV show can do it without any remorse. It is one of the biggest (if not the biggest) “guns” hanging on the wall for the series, after all. (Sean Bean’s comments probably reflect how the TV viewers feel about it.)

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    28. Turncloak: My ranking
      1)Stannis/Jon/Mance/Aemon/Boltons
      2)Tyrion/Varys
      3) Arya in Braavos
      4) Cersei/Kings Landing
      5) jaime/bronn
      6) sansa
      7) Brienne and pod

      I’d bump Sansa up a spot… but otherwise, this is pretty much where I’m at.

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    29. Wimsey:

      You are right that Martin uses the Starks very differently.The Starks have their share of greatness, too.However, their rigid moral code often hurts them and actually works against what their morality supports.What we’ve seen from them is increasing flexibility, and an increasing realization that if you want to reach the heights, then sometimes you have to run downhill for a little while.Arya shows this immediately, but Jon follows pretty quickly, then Bran, and now Sansa is finally starting to show it.In the books and on TV, Robb’s inability to do this is in one way or another is the death of him;Ned himself dies because he compromises on the wrong value (eradicating your enemies) and upholds the wrong one (not counting a woman as an enemy) when it counts.

      Your Stark paragraph above elicited a fist pump on my side. The Stark arc is so fascinating and relevant. Many journeys in search of identity. That is also the reason why I enjoyed the introduction of LS. Something about the Stark spirit cannot be broken and I rather enjoyed how GRRM used her as metaphor for their rage and predicament.

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    30. for me Dany is the best part of this magnificent story and my favorite character by far so just like the past seasons I’m looking forward for her arc more than others
      But in overall season 5 is going to be beyond mind blowing

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    31. Wimsey,

      “but Jon follows pretty quickly”

      I don’t think that applies to Jon. He reminds me of Ned and Robb.

      Which is probably why “for the watch” happens to him

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    32. Turncloak,

      Yeah, Jon is guilty of trying to be a rational leader, which is dangerous indeed. Do you ever find Robb’s Karstark beheading/aftermath and Jon’s Slynt beheading/aftermath comparable? Both have somewhat similar results. Unfortunately, without the presence of Stannis and the support/insight of Sam, Jon is completely vulnerable. Also, “for the watch” is led by a bunch of idiots. I wonder what will be the last straw for Marsh et al in the show (and where will Edd, Mel, and Ghost be at that moment)?

      I miss Val already.

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    33. Mine is the Furry,

      Oh, I got you and loved the reference. Thx. 🙂

      “Congratulations. You have just discovered the secret message. Please send your answer to Old Pink, care of the Funny Farm, Chalfont…”

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    34. Hodor’s Bastard: The Stark arc is so fascinating and relevant. Many journeys in search of identity.

      And that is the real strength of this series. The dragons and magic are cool, but it’s people trying to solve the mystery of “who am I?” that resonates. Martin is one of the few fantasy writers to use fantasy to emphasize that by creating fantastic choices and scenarios rather than as a sugar-coating or just for the sake of it. (I won’t add “sex” because most modern novels are filled with that, too!)

      And I agree: it is fist-pump worthy on Martin’s part. (And B&W’s and HBO’s parts: they deserve credit for seeing that underneath the “Middle-earth” lipstick, there was a genuine character drama.)

      Turncloak,

      Jon demonstrated that he could be much more flexible in Seasons #2 & #3. Ned probably would not have been able to off Qhorin, and he certainly would not have maintained the lie that he was a traitor. It’s a little harder to say with Robb, but I don’t think that he could have, either.

      Turncloak: Wimsey,

      “but Jon follows pretty quickly”

      I don’t think that applies to Jon. He reminds me of Ned and Robb.

      Ned would have had real problems killing Qhorin, and I cannot see him brazenly deceiving Mance & the Wildlings like he does. Robb is a tougher read: but I think that he, too, would have had much more difficulty doing what Jon does, at least at that point in their lives.

      As for

      “for the watch,” this actually does stem from Jon’s more flexible morality. He has accepted that the Wildlings are not “the enemy” and that they must put aside past grudges to work against the true enemy. It is the inability of some other NW to recognize the shades of grey OR that the times are a changin’ that lead to “For the Watch.”

      Mine is the Furry: Wow. No early Floyd/Syd Barrett fans?

      Actually, the Piper at the Gates of Dawn is one of my favorite albums! I used to play “Flaming” for my son to sing him to sleep. Is that lyric from one of his solo albums? (I had those at one time: but I never found them as engaging.)

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    35. Laura,

      Anything is possible,

      but UnCat will be relegated to book lore, I’m afraid. Too much time has passed. I do think Blackfish will run into Sansa and/or the BwB at some point soon though. Sansa assuming LS’s mad revenge? I think you have been drinking what Turncloak has been drinking…. 🙂

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    36. Hodor’s Bastard,

      I think they really picked the worst possible resolution to that Yara plot, other than just killing her. My preferred idea was that she would be captured, then Ramsay could’ve taken her to die in a hunt, but she could’ve outwitted him there and managed to escape and make her way by land to Deepwood to hook up with her Dance plot. That would’ve established her as a formidable character, made the hunting scene into something other than just a chance to show how violent Ramsay is, still shown how broken Theon is, and gotten her right back to where she’s supposed to be. Your idea would work too. Anything other than what they did.

      As for Manderly, I think their plan, based on what they did in season 3 with sending Rickon to the Umbers while also having a Manderly at the Red Wedding, was to keep Manderly, and then have Umber take on the Robbett Glover role of being his primary accomplice, but I guess as they wrote the season there wasn’t enough space, so Either the whole plot was cut, or Manderly was cut and rolled into Umber.

      I’m still holding out hope for Sam in Braavos, just because they love random character meetings, and I really hope the Oldtown stuff is important enough to include and not just filler for Sam.

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    37. Afeastfordances,

      We cannot complain about a resolution that hasn’t happened yet! Don’t look at it as a

      Yara plot; look at it as one element in Theon’s storyline. The resolution was fine: Theon was gone at that point, brainwashed into being Reek. Yara was just a tool for showing that. Having shown that, B&W set the stage for this season’s story, which includes Reek giving way to Theon.

      One thing that is clear is that

      B&W are not going to elevate Yara to a protagonist the way that Martin did. And, to be honest, I think that it was a big mistake for Martin to do so. Asha/Yara just did not add anything really unique to the Crows/Dragons story.

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    38. Wimsey,

      I must disagree. There was no Yara resolution. If there is no Kingsmoot in GoT, Yara should have stayed in the north, whether by force or by will. That would have been interesting and creatively differed from the books. But they managed to insult Yara, the ironborn, Ramsay and the viewer with the course they took. She went all that way and wasn’t even mildly interested in the fate of her Moat Cailin brethren? Screw that. Her crew would have mutinied before returning to Pyke. Fandom speculations before the season began were better.

      Someday I will kidnap BC and not release him until he tells me why they chose the Yara option they did. If he tells me that it was done to keep Gemma in the show, I will hand him over to the ice river clans.

      #YesIamStillNotOverIt

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    39. Hodor’s Bastard,

      My point was that there wasn’t anything to resolve: Yara was an element of someone else’s storyline. The big point (Theon gone bye-bye) was established quite thoroughly. I actually liked the way it was done because it was symmetrical with Yara/Asha coming to Winterfell in Season/Book 2. And I was not remotely insulted by it: I thought that it very effectively demonstrated just how firmly Reek had taken control and how vanished Theon was.

      As for Yara being interested in the Moat Caitlin Ironborn, was the issue ever raised? (It seems like they were just sort of abandoned by everyone in the book, too.) Why would Yara or her crew even have known to care? These seem to be very disparate issues: if viewers wondered anything, then it might have been why the Ironborn were not reinforcing Moat Caitlin; however, they probably just assumed that it was an “overreach” that got cut off in the to and fro of the war. Again, the bigger point was Theon: we might have gotten some sign that a bit of Theon is still lurking there.

        Quote  Reply

    40. So apparently some people though GRRM 12 days of westeros was a countdown to the winds of winter since the last day ends on the winter solcitce.

      They then complained when GRRM said it has no such meaning. God people are such idiots

        Quote  Reply

    41. Wimsey,

      Yes, they did indeed ram that “point” down our throats repeatedly, Yara’s integrity be damned. It’ll remain a sore point on my end.

      Yara/Asha knew Theon was doomed when she frustratingly left him at WF. Hence, her retry at saving him (via a 2-month adhoc sailing venture) was purely superfluous and desperate. I must admit that the reading of the letter to her forces was somewhat inspiring and her brief dialogue with Reek was mildly touching (kudos to BC), but it was empty. A good twist would have been to stick her with that burden and remain there, defeated, as a captive or not, but unable to leave Ramsay and Reek.

      Moat Cailin was only abandoned by its defacto general because of the Kingsmoot (death of Balon). In both cases, the ironborn there were trapped by Bolton forces. If another ironborn force was in the area (after traveling halfway around the world), one would think they would want to inspect their acquired assets or relieve them of their duties .

        Quote  Reply

    42. Hodor’s Bastard: If another ironborn force was in the area (after traveling halfway around the world), one would think they would want to inspect their acquired assets or relieve them of their duties .

      But how would they have known to look there? This isn’t a society with great communication abilities. Historically, soldiers have known very little about what was going on in the larger war. Indeed, if we are going to treat such things as “plot holes,” then a lot of major battles (and even wars) in our history were turned on big plot holes. Except that they weren’t: the people making the mistakes didn’t know that they were doing so at the time.

      As for Yara, I don’t see how this affects her integrity. She tried and she failed: for all intents and purposes, she got there too late. That happens. It (re)established a bond between the two siblings at which we got hints in Storm and that might be relevant in Winter. However, the bond is going to be a tool: Yara’s not going to be a main character on the TV show. (I wish that Martin hadn’t wasted time making her a protagonist in the books, to be honest.)

        Quote  Reply

    43. Turncloak,

      When people were speculating maybe GRRM would release another sample chapter around when the countdown ends, I thought that was unlikely but not impossible, and fun speculation. But announcing the book publishing date or releasing the book itself? Oh honey. Honey no. Why do people talk themselves into believing this stuff?

        Quote  Reply

    44. Turncloak,

      you see this is the very reason iam not going into westeros.org or any other sites as active as before and only checking in on the news and not participating in any discussions

      i get people hate daenerys and her arc and those who love her arc is very less when compared to those who hate her

      but when i see comment like this it makes me really sad ..i want to think that you forget about it but i somehow doubt it ..i dont have a problem when you hate a character i like but when you list all the characters and story arc that will appear in next season even brienne and pod and tyrion and varys which will be what a couple of episode and leave out one thing that will be major in the next season

        Quote  Reply

    45. dragonbringer,

      I have to think he simply forgot to list her. I really gained a new appreciation for Dany’s ADWD arc after reading the ‘Meereenese Blot’ blog. It made my re-read so much more enjoyable. I think it could be pretty good in the show. I’m just wondering what will happen with Barristan. I’m pretty sure he’s not present at Daznak’s Pit. I am starting to buy into the theory that he will be

      sent to Dorne in the show to try and win the Dornish to Dany’s side.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      i hope he forget too

      i will admit i was also little diappointed with her arc in DWD but then again nothing really happened for other characters also in this book ..
      it took forever me to finish ADWD maybe because of my heavy work schedule and fell asleep in many times not only in dany’s chapters but also in jon and tyrion and brienne in FFC who are my other favorites but i found them interesting in my rereads and when i was free there are lot of things happening in those chapters people missing

      As for meereenese blot i like that but iam not completely in agreement with that in some points like the peace being real..

      when people read the book first time they look for plot points and disappointed when nothing happens and start neglecting those chapters on reread ..but in rereads you will know what will happen so you start paying attention and then you find them interesting and notice things you didnt before

      i found this is how it should be done with AFFC and ADWD

      as for barristan yes it appears he will not be in the pit .shame really i wanted to see him in is white queensgaurd armor ..but i dont want to believe he will be sent to dorne because it reverses the role of danny and doran ..i am of the opinion that he and greyworm are Harpy’s prisoners and i think this will be more likely than he sent to dorne

      we will see

        Quote  Reply

    47. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think he dies. I hope he doesn’t. Either way, he and Gray Worm (both not present in the Daznak Pit scene) share a scene just the two in the streets of Meereen so it’s possible that they’re guarding outside or patrolling the streets during the event or something… Or maybe they get kidnapped and used to force Dany to open the Pit/marry Hizzy.

      I also think that mystery Dorne character has to be either Jaime or Bronn. This seems exactly like the kind of thing to get overblown by the media and exactly the kind of thing that fans get excited for and then disappointed.

        Quote  Reply

    48. jentario,

      Aye. Probably just Jaime and Bronn. We know it isn’t Barry for the same reason we know he’s not at Daznak’s, because McElhiney was in NI directing a play his wife wrote during the Spain shoot.

        Quote  Reply

    49. jentario,

      If they kill him off, I will join that cocksucka Swedgin in ripping D&D to pieces. It will be a total waste of a character. They should have just left him out altogether. I say this, fully believing there is a good chance he dies in TWOW, but I have more faith in GRRM to give him a better death. The thought of him being ambushed and killed by the Sons the Harpy just doesn’t sit well with me. I’d like to think Dany wouldn’t agree to a marriage with Hizdahr if they killed Barristan. Hopefully he is just a hostage, but even that is a questionable change. Why swap roles with Daario? Poor old Barry. He gets no respect.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I think season 5 will be the judge of whether or not Barristan gets D&D’s respect. There really wasn’t a place for him to shine in season 4, and he was done alright in seasons 1 and 3. People always say he should have fought the champion of Meereen instead of Daario but they forget how dull/annoying if a character Daario really is- badass is all he’s got going for him, so if you neglect that you aren’t left with much. Barristan could wait for season 5 where he should have some talks with Dany and hopefully some sort of fight scene (sadly it looks like the Meereen politics are being streamlined so I don’t see his coup making the cut in the show, and if it does I bet they’ll give Tyrion a more active role in it considering he’s already there and in position- but I guess Barry and Tyrion could team up with Tyrion replacing the Shavepate, which would be nice).

        Quote  Reply

    51. I’m most looking forward to:

      1. The north
      2. Sansa
      3. Brienne
      4. Jaime & Bronn in Dorne
      5. Tyrion/

      Jorah

      6. Cersei & King’s Landing dynamics (these rarely let down)
      7. Arya in Braavos
      8.

      Dany’s dragon ride

        Quote  Reply

    52. Maisie is a cool kid. One of my favourites on the show, from the cast as well as the character she embodies!

      It is soo wonderful, but also a bit weird, to have seen her grow on-screen over the past couple of years!

      I wish her all the best and cannot wait to see what’s in store for Arya in Season Five!

        Quote  Reply

    53. Maisie continually seems like a great girl, its a shame she had to deal with bullying, midteens… her looks are still a bit alienlike to me, but thats a topic for a different conversation

      also, this is your daily reminder of existence of a camp who thought the Feast was a great damn book (partially represented by me) and a camp who thought the Dance was a great damn book (odd as hell to me, but ALL my IRL reader friends adore it)

        Quote  Reply

    54. TheBerylfly:

      and a camp who thought the Dance was a great damn book (odd as hell to me, but ALL my IRL reader friends adore it)

      It was definitely building momentum towards the end (especially the Northern chapters & the last few Meereen/Dany ones). All ASOIAF books, starting with the first one and including ASOS, build up slowly towards a breathtaking climax. The first 500 pages may sometimes feel like work getting through, but the last 200-400 are real page turners (TWOW may, interestingly, break this pattern, if it starts with where Dance left off).

      IMHO Dance fits this pattern, however:

      – The build-up ended up with cliffhangers instead of the breathtaking climax,
      – The problem of bulkiness seemed to be getting worse.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Wow. No early Floyd/Syd Barrett fans?

      Jugband Blues? Bring it on. Baby Lemonade? Let’s have it. The Madcap Laughs? As good as it gets.

      Nonetheless, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Sue the Fury,

      For the same reason they believe in anything else: they want it to be true! Tis the season to pretend there is a Santa, after all! (And few people look more like Santa than GRRM: although Santa would have to be a lot speedier in just about everything!)

        Quote  Reply

    57. I’m so glad they are finally taking Arya out of her brown garbs. That clothing was dreadful. Looking forward to see her different outfits in season 5.

      I’m guessing she will have a Braavosi outfit she uses outside and a Facelessman outfit that she uses while in the House of Black and White. Don’t remember if the Facelessman have a “uniform” in the books but that would be a cool detail for the show to add ala Skyrim’s “Dark Brotherhood”

        Quote  Reply

    58. dragonbringer: i get people hate daenerys and her arc and those who love her arc is very less when compared to those who hate her

      As I noted the other day, this division goes back many years. I suspect that the TV show has been a rude awakening for them: it’s tough to watch that and not realize that Dany has been the #1 protagonist all along. (Of course, all good book fans can console themselves that they understand the material better than the adapters: OR better than the authors when the authors subsequently prove the adapters correct, as Rowling did with the HP films!)

      TheBerylfly: also, this is your daily reminder of existence of a camp who thought the Feast was a great damn book (partially represented by me) and a camp who thought the Dance was a great damn book (odd as hell to me, but ALL my IRL reader friends adore it)

      The former camp is particularly small, at least among hardcore fans. The absence of the most popular (and, for many readers, the most interesting) protagonists really hurt that book, as well as the introduction of new protagonists at a time where fans were hungering badly for the popular ones. The new protagonists also hurt the story: this one really depended on the dynamic development of characters, and that is much harder to glean in newly developed ones than in previously developed ones.

      (I am in the camp that the two combined could have been a good book if Martin had cut the new protagonists, repositioned some of the established ones in places that will become important to the plot, and reduced the narrative length for some of the protagonists, as he overtold some of the storylines.)

      Sergei Walankov,

      I looked it up: it’s from a song called “Maise” that I don’t remember at all, either!

        Quote  Reply

    59. Wimsey,

      i cant believe how people think she is not one of the main character ..if she was irrelevant to the stories why include her at all in the first place

      her story arc in the AGOT was released as seperate book “Blood of the dragon ” and GRRm won an award for AGOT for her arc in that first book

      ACOK is different from AGOT where she only has five chapters and out of the five three chapters were interesting and great( naming of dragons ,jorah back story and her caring of her people and struggles they face in red waste, then THOTU and last chapter with Strong belwas and Arstan whitebeard ) only the middle two chapters were bit slow but stuff happens in that too like she hearing of Roberts Death and Quaithe and her warning how her dragons force magic back into the world …but still people complained that danny’s chapters are boring when she only had two dull chapters

      ASoS here stuff really happened in her plot but then again people found it unlikable when she frees slaves and becoming a saviour figure and start hating her when she gets some victory …

      whats funny is though take any podcast about books or show they will tell about how they want to see her failing and learning after what she did after ASOS or season 3 and then when it really happens in ADWD and in season 4 people again hate her because she is failing ..

      the only reason i am hoping for books to release and not content with the show is some people will say that is was show fanfiction if she lived through series or declared as AAR
      and because the writers love her argument will pop up ..what did they ever do that was not in the books ..infact i dont like what they did to her in season2 more self entitled bitchy and arrogant and like her brother viserys but if someone cared to read her chapters in ACOK they will find how much they have deviated from the books and they gave her season ending so they like her most when GRRM himself finished with her in his two Books AGOT and ADWD (last chapter before epilogue)

      and poor EMilia how many votes she got this year 6 or 7 i wonder what she got in season 1 and 3

        Quote  Reply

    60. dragonbringer,

      To review the list insofar as I can reconstruct it (and still heavily tinged from whenI was a fairly active poster on the old Usenet group back in the late 1990’s/early aughts), the reasons why people didn’t like Dany included:
      1. Dislike of strong female characters (although these people would never admit to such!);
      2. Dislike of non-European settings for fantasy tales;
      3. Imposing “good/evil” on groups of people, with the assumption that Valyrians or Targaryens or dragons are “evil”;
      4. Near worship of “rival” characters (the “Robbettes” in particular come to mind: before SoS that camp argued that Robb Stark was the “hero” and Dany was just a distraction).

      As for Dany appearing to be “self-entitled” and “bitchy,” that probably IS an accurate representation of what she would appear to be like. Remember, we read her POV in the books: and nobody every perceives themselves that way. However, she is a young woman with a cause: and young women with causes are frequently viewed as self-entitled and bitchy. She is crusading to win back a throne that is hers by birthright: but what is more self-entitled than the concept of birthright? She is crusading to end slavery because she can relate her own circumstances (being essentially sold into marriage in exchange for an army) to slavery: but don’t all crusading women bent on improving the world come across like that to many people?

      One key difference between written and enacted media is that the former allows subjective description and the latter demands objective description. Just like all living people, how Dany perceives herself (which is what we read) and how Dany comes across are two different things. The TV show captures this pretty well. After all, in the books, do we not read over and over again that Dany is (basically) a self-entitled bitch? Sure, some of it is propaganda: but with a grain of truth.

      Moreover, this grain of truth goes back to Point #1 above: most of society’s definitions of “bitchy” are invented by men, and those include (but obviously are not limited to) the traits of strong women. Show me a woman who never has been accused of being a bitch, and you are showing me milquetoast with substandard intelligence!

      That doesn’t make Dany “bad”: it makes her realistic.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Wimsey:
      dragonbringer,

      To review the list insofar as I can reconstruct it (and still heavily tinged from whenI was a fairly active poster on the old Usenet group back in the late 1990’s/early aughts), the reasons why people didn’t like Dany included:
      1. Dislike of strong female characters (although these people would never admit to such!);
      2. Dislike of non-European settings for fantasy tales;
      3. Imposing “good/evil” on groups of people, with the assumption that Valyrians or Targaryens or dragons are “evil”;
      4. Near worship of “rival” characters (the “Robbettes” in particular come to mind: before SoS that camp argued that Robb Stark was the “hero” and Dany was just a distraction).

      As for Dany appearing to be “self-entitled” and “bitchy,” that probably IS an accurate representation of what she would appear to be like.Remember, we read her POV in the books: and nobody every perceives themselves that way.However, she is a young woman with a cause: and young women with causes are frequently viewed as self-entitled and bitchy.She is crusading to win back a throne that is hers by birthright: but what is more self-entitled than the concept of birthright?She is crusading to end slavery because she can relate her own circumstances (being essentially sold into marriage in exchange for an army) to slavery: but don’t all crusading women bent on improving the world come across like that to many people?

      One key difference between written and enacted media is that the former allows subjective description and the latter demands objective description.Just like all living people, how Dany perceives herself (which is what we read) and how Dany comes across are two different things.The TV show captures this pretty well.After all, in the books, do we not read over and over again that Dany is (basically) a self-entitled bitch?Sure, some of it is propaganda: but with a grain of truth.

      Moreover, this grain of truth goes back to Point #1 above: most of society’s definitions of “bitchy” are invented by men, and those include (but obviously are not limited to) the traits of strong women.Show me a woman who never has been accused of being a bitch, and you are showing me milquetoast with substandard intelligence!

      That doesn’t make Dany “bad”: it makes her realistic.

      Oh yes I agree with what you are saying and the reasons for hate
      But like I said they just made her look like that way more so than in the books but I don’t really hate them in this this understand why they need to for the reasons you mentioned ..

        Quote  Reply

    62. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      HAHAHAHAH I’m dying here! There’ll more than you and Al tearing off a new one to Benioff & Weiss, you bet. I’ll be venting some too. I feel bad for them though. Because they definitely can’t be pleasing all fans. Ah, fuck it. I’m not their advocate. And I’m not going to shush either if what I like doesn’t make it in.

        Quote  Reply

    63. dragonbringer,
      I am trying to think of how many times we read Dany from another person’s POV? We get a little bit from Selmy in Dragons, but I don’t recall another POV character being in her presence in the books.

      That is the POV we really need to see how the show compares to the book: and even then, we need to adjust for the subjectivity of the POV character. One character’s good birthing hips are another characters skinny hips, after all!

      Strider: There’ll more than you and Al tearing off a new one to Benioff & Weiss, you bet.

      In the pronoun vagary, I’m not sure who the “he” is in the discussion anymore, but seeing as all of this is based on set pictures, and given how many wrong trees fandoms up which fandoms have gone barking due to these sorts of pictures, I wouldn’t worry about this. If the 12 Days of Westeros teaches us nothing else, then it should teach us that there are myriad explanations for these things.

        Quote  Reply

    64. dragonbringer,

      If it’s night out there and you tell me that it’s day i believe you but i can’t possibly imagine that people hate dany this is the most unbelievable and ridiculous thing that i ever heard
      She’s simply the best part of the story and my favorite character by far

      Long live the Queen

        Quote  Reply

    65. Strider,

      As much as I would like to see Selmy, Jorah, Tyrion and Grey Worm next to Dany as she rides back to Westeros, that won’t happen. Too neat. Her return, if it happens, will be missing a wing man or two. In any case, I think “Sound the attack” will be Selmy’s finest moment.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Sadegh,

      I dislike her story, mostly for a reason I didn’t see mentioned. It is far too disconnected from the rest of the story. It’s like there’s the Westeros story and the Dany story. For the Westeros story you have many points of view from different sides of the war and stories that intermingle. The you have Dany’s story set in essentially a different world with just one point of view (for most of the books). Yes there are minor links like Barristan crossing over (after a long absence) and Jeor being Jorah’s dad, but it never felt properly linked. I was actually happier to read about Greyjoys and Martells in AFFC than Dany because it felt like part of the main story (I still missed Tyrion and Jon etc). Its also one of the reasons I’m looking forward to the coming season as a solid connection between the two stories finally occurs. It’s not a case of preferring European fantasy settings. I’d feel the same if Dany was in Westeros and everyone else was in Essos.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Wimsey:
      dragonbringer,

      1. Dislike of strong female characters (although these people would never admit to such!)

      Quite true. I don’t know if you watched the reimagined Battlestar Galactica or Deep Space Nine, but a significant chunk of fandom detested President Roslin and Major Kira, two of the strongest and best-defined female leads in SF TV. Words like “bitch” or “self-entitled” or “whiny” were used with alarming frequency.

      Seems like many male viewers only like strong female characters that adhere to the concept of a tomboy, that are “one of the boys”. Hence, the popularity of characters like Sarah Connor, Starbuck, Arya, etc.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Haterofbookpurists,

      Newsflash. Use of personal attacks, homophobic slurs, and attempts to speak for the entire community could cause people to lose any respect they may have had for you. Your hatred advocating username doesn’t help.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Sadegh,

      I hate BookDany passionately. It’s not anything that she does (or doesn’t do), it’s the why. Not her motives or characterization, but why she exists at all in most of the books. I just see GM treading water when I read her chapters. Can’t shake it.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Turncloak,

      The hell it is. That’s not my point. Most of Dany’s chapters are world-building. Some people really devour that stuff. I do too. But there’s a limit. Martin reached that limit for me two books ago. We braid-twistin’ now, mon.

        Quote  Reply

    71. A comment I recently posted on LibraryThing about why I have diminishing interest in Daenerys and her storyline:

      When I first read the five volumes that currently make up the “A Song Of Ice and Fire” series, I hadn’t seen any of the TV series except for a few YouTube clips of Daenerys Targaryen’s storyline, which is what got me interested in the first place. Now, having watched Seasons 1-3 of the TV series with Season 4 to come soon, I decided to re-read the books.

      My original review of the book series is here:

      http://timjonesbooks.blogspot.co.nz/2013/10/maybe-modern-life-isnt-rubbish-after.html

      I enjoyed re-reading “A Game of Thrones”, but interestingly, I found myself skipping the Daenerys chapters this time round: In Books 4 and 5 of the book series – which will be covered by Season 5 of the TV series – she turns increasingly into a medieval fantasy equivalent of George W. Bush, all bold invasions of exotic lands in the name of freedom without any thought of what would come next when her invasion is complete, and I got increasingly frustrated with her. That frustration seems to have echoed back to Book 1 in my re-read.

        Quote  Reply

    72. I am trying to think of how many times we read Dany from another person’s POV? We get a little bit from Selmy in Dragons, but I don’t recall another POV character being in her presence in the books.

      i think the only ones we got are from ser barristan like you said ..and illyrio mentions about her being true targ to tyrion and not like her brother viserys
      and tyrion speaks of her with aegon and quentyn seems to think how she was the only person who was kind to him

      If it’s night out there and you tell me that it’s day i believe you but i can’t possibly imagine that people hate dany this is the most unbelievable and ridiculous thing that i ever heard
      She’s simply the best part of the story and my favorite character by far

      Long live the Queen

      welcome to the fandom do spend sometime in various fansites and podcasts you will know

      I didn’t see mentioned. It is far too disconnected from the rest of the story. It’s like there’s the Westeros story and the Dany story.

      yes this is the only reason i found it asseptable and that too in AGOT because of so much stuff happened in one place kings landing ..but then again i always viewed Danny and jon story seperate from westeros story ..in the later books i begin to see each has a charcter arc and not as region

      i think it was Elio from westeros.org who once asked GRRM should he add more POV’s in Essos and i think GRRM said that no it was about a character(Danny) in Essos and not about Essos

      the very fact she exist and seen how many effort GRRM put in with her charcter should make anyone see her as a major character but alas it didnt happen …

      sometimes i wonder she would have been more appreciated if we have seen her arc through anyone other than her like Davos for stannis …maybe jorah would have taken that role but it is really will not be well suited because of some of the chapter we see and her being main in the towards the end of the book..even jon had Samwell as another POV in the Wall

      hopefully we will get to see her from other character eyes in AWOW and ADOS

        Quote  Reply

    73. Nope. Nothing that I saw, though I was switching over from the Blackhawks game and may have missed it. Anyone actually watch the Newsroom finale live?

      Why are you torturing us, HBO? Why?

        Quote  Reply

    74. Well, looks like HBO is going to keep a tight lid on the next season, no look at next years shows, and nothing big coming up in January (TD will be after GoT). If we get a trailer, it will probably be released during the Super Bowl, unless that 12 days of Westeros is a countdown to a one. Concerning the big game (the other one) I don’t see HBO willing to pay 2+ million for a one minute spot.

        Quote  Reply

    75. tyjon,

      couldn’t we still get an end year promo in the next week or so? GIRLS is coming back in January so HBO might put up a GOT promo after that to increase its ratings

        Quote  Reply

    76. tyjon,

      There is probably a crapload of post-proc & editing stuff that is necessary for this season. Maybe more than usual. Everything is just working its way through the machine, possibly even slower than normal, especially given the slew of “new” directors for the episodes. Given the topics to cover this season, I think it is rather mind-blowing all the adapted stuff that needs to get organized/ordered, VFX to add, and decisions regarding what to tease us with in the coming weeks/months. Should be fun to dissect and discuss!

        Quote  Reply

    77. OT: I’m starting the new Marco Polo series on Netflix did someone binge watched it already? I hope it’s not a pale copy of Game of Thrones, some people said that the production values are even better but we’ll see if it’s worth the comparaison.

        Quote  Reply

    78. See the first post. I quoted “Maisie” by Syd Barrett.

      Ah, nice one. To be honest, I tend not to stick around to the end of side one of Barrett.

        Quote  Reply

    79. In Books 4 and 5 of the book series – which will be covered by Season 5 of the TV series – she turns increasingly into a medieval fantasy equivalent of George W. Bush, all bold invasions of exotic lands in the name of freedom without any thought of what would come next when her invasion is complete, and I got increasingly frustrated with her.

      Tolkien may have “cordially dislike(d) allegory in all its manifestations”, but I suspect Martin knew what he was doing there.

        Quote  Reply

    80. The Hound,

      I watched the first couple of episodes. The cinematography is indeed impressive, but: 1. the story pretty much sucks and all of the characters are boring and 2. I’m not sure how to feel about it, if it’s appropriative or what. Like, if you were going to enact the gesture of making a big budget epic about Mongolia and China, why not make it about Mongolia and China and forgo white dude protagonists entirely? Why do we need that anchor to have any access to these cultures? The whole premise in itself feels ethnocentric and orientalizing of east asian cultures (besides feeling bereft of actually dramatic storytelling potential), regardless of how much work it tries to do to swaddle the white American viewer into feeling comfortable with them. Besides which, they all speak a jumble of accented Englishs.

      I also read a review basically pointing out that in its emulation of Game of Thrones, it had collected all of GoT’s worst aspects – the gratuitous nudity (but hey, in Marco Polo pubic hair actually seems to exist) and violence – and none of what makes GoT actually good – the intricate plot schemings and the compelling, complex characters, and also, probably, dragons.

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    81. Bufferzone,

      all bold invasions of exotic lands in the name of freedom without any thought of what would come next when her invasion is complete, and I got increasingly frustrated with her.

      This. Plus Martin really turned her into a boy obsessed blond. Granted she’s a teenager in the books, but it would be nice if she made some decision that wasn’t based on her love life.

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    82. Maisie tells The Guardian of how jealousy from her classmates brought about bullying and rough times for her as her fame and that of the show’s grew. She received messages calling her “stuckup”, and saying that she thought was “too good for everyone else.”

      Newsflash, Maisie. You are better than them. So next time you get messages like that from passive-aggressive morons, be stuck-up and answer: “I am better than you, because I was given a rare opportunity and I worked my butt off honestly to make the most of it. What have you guys done, other than hide behind social media like cowards to insult someone’s hard work? Bite me.”

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    83. ash: Plus Martin really turned her into a boy obsessed blond. Granted she’s a teenager in the books, but it would be nice if she made some decision that wasn’t based on her love life.

      Then what would she have in common with Jorah? I just hope the funniest scene in the books

      (fDany bouncing on Ser Jorah’s lap)

      makes it to the show.

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    84. thremnir,

      I never made that connection before but it fits perfectly. I doubt she’d enact the next part of those lyrics though…her parents aren’t even alive for her to be able to say the Freudian bit to them…

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    85. Greenjones:
      thremnir,

      I never made that connection before but it fits perfectly. I doubt she’d enact the next part of those lyrics though…her parents aren’t even alive for her to be able to say the Freudian bit to them…

      haha no, but watch out Jon and Sansa :O

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    86. I guess it has always made sense to me that Dany is disconnected from Westeros. There have always been some parallels to real history in Westeros’ alternative fantasy one, and one of those allusions is to the War of the Roses with Starks being loosely aligned to Yorks, Lannisters to Lancasters, and Targaryen to Tudors. There’s a bit of Henry Tudor in Dany Targaryen, and he spent a great deal of time in exhile as well. (And by referencing the War of the Roses, I don’t mean it as ASOIAF following it. But there are some elements of inspiration)

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