Looking Forward, Game of Thrones Ep. 602: Life Without Prince

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The gamut of emotion was almost too much to bear.

An editorial like this only happens when two colossal influences in your life converge. A favorite source of entertainment begins again. A favorite source of entertainment ends forever.

Two princes are dead. One left a lasting impression. One didn’t. One will be remembered always, and one will barely be remembered at all…

Disclaimer: Be mindful that this is the Unsullied WotW village idiot post, where ideas and speculation are not bound to the regulations of fine thesis or upper-echelon monograph. Looking Forward is the designated area for us to let our hair down (if you have hair) and discuss topics that may (or may not) relate to GoT.

 If that’s not your thing, a man completely understands. Feel free to move along. 

Life is a spectrum of sentiment. Fluctuation of emotion is normal. It’s the highs and lows, ups and downs, ebbs and flows that make the world go round and makes us the glorious heaps of imperfection that we are.

It’s when two or more emotion-conjuring events take place around the same time that can confuse the inner self to the point of smiling one minute and sulking the next.

It was the excitement and chaos that precedes a new season of Game of Thrones on the proverbial doorstep. Joy! Exuberance! The reckless abandon in speculation! And then a dose of reality when you are painfully reminded that even in the real world, all men must indeed die.

I never knew Prince. But he was the primary reason I picked up a guitar and learned to play it. I was introduced to his music by my now deceased Uncle (fondly referred to as “Uncle Big Head” for his abnormally sized melon). “Big” tried to convince me at an inappropriate age that on “Controversy,” they were actually saying “eat my pussy.” Tyene “Bad Pussy” Sand might approve.

I never knew Trystane either. And the truth is I still don’t, other than a few factual pieces the show threw in: He was the son of Doran. The Prince of Dorne. The chosen of Myrcella. And good at arts and crafts…

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Suffice it to say, I had no investment in Trystane. His death left very little, if any, impressionable feelings of loss (although the nostril cleansing he received was memorable).

I know my Sullied colleagues and hundreds of readers are mulling over the Dorne plotline now (a “murder” I sat out of when a lady named Arianne came up in the first paragraphs). If you are Sullied and want to chat about her or any other book-related ideologies, then head on over there.

Ellaira killes Prince Doran Martell

But as it pertains to the show, the jury is still out on just how this Dorne storyline supplements the bigger picture. Obviously, Dorne is part of the Seven Kingdoms. And whoever rules the Seven Kingdoms will have to deal with Dorne.

bronn-game-of-thrones-2

“Fight and fock. Fock and fight.”

However, the show has done a good job (as unintentional as it may be) of making it seem as if Dorne itself is really not all that important. You know, they’re those “beach people.” They lay out in the sun and do “it” all day. Then they eat and do “it” again and make poisonous concoctions while the rest of the world sleeps.

Myr Jaime

They don’t hurt little girls in Dorne, but they did. And they kill family members over the death of Oberyn, even though Oberyn volunteered to put his life on the line and be the champion for Tyrion. No one made him do it.

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And maybe Doran should have done something about what happened to Elia and her children. But that is exactly why Oberyn went to King’s Landing in the first place. And it seems as if the show runners were attempting to get the viewer to remember the coolness that embodied Oberyn Martell whenever a Dorne scene popped up.

One of the problems with that philosophy was that almost ten months passed between Oberyn’s death and our first look at his homeland. That’s TV land for you.

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The other goes back to the first scene with the Sand Snakes we ever witnessed in Ep. 504. The old adage “you never get a second chance to make a first impression” is probably appropriate. No need to relive it, but it’s hard to get that taste out of your mouth.

It was also the first time I felt like I was watching something other than Game of Thrones, aside from the “exploding fireballs” at the end of Season 4 (I still don’t like it).

Bronn Tyene

But even then it felt salvageable, right up until the Jaime/Bronn/Snake fight scene in Ep. 506. I won’t say that I lost all hope, but every time the show has segued into Dorne I cringe at what might be coming. And that’s never a good disposition.

To be fair, there’s only been a handful of misses throughout the duration of Game of Thrones and final judgment on Dorne should reasonably come at the conclusion of the show. But it does make you wonder where the plot will lead, if anywhere.

Trystane’s name should pop up again when they discover his body (and retrieve the painted eyes for Myrcella). But beyond that, Dorne could very well be an after-thought for a while (if it wasn’t already). The Lannisters currently have their hands full.

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As for Toby Sebastian, no curtain call for him. The kid may have acting chops to carry him to a long and fruitful career, but he definitely did not have the opportunity to show them off here. If nothing else, it will look good on his resume. We wish you all the luck in the world.

On the other hand, Prince undeniably deserves a curtain call…

prince

“Dearly beloved, we are gathered here today to get through this thing called life.”

Although this was a dismal attempt to incorporate a tribute to the Exalted Purple One into a GoT site post, a man had to at least make an attempt to justify the inclusion for the sake of you, the reader, and our trusted Editor-in-Chief to even allow the piece to be published.

So, I picked a couple of memorable selections from the vast Prince collection and attempted to pair them with certain characters and their current situation. Feel free to add yours in the comments, and we’ll deem this the “Watchers Prince Tribute Post.”

RamsayB

“Let’s Go Crazy”: Ramsay

Logic: After the lip Ramsay got from Roose in Ep. 1, lookout. I can weirdly even envision Ramsay saying, “look for the purple banana until they put us in a truck.”

Jaime Cersei

“You’re just a sinner I am told.”

“I Would Die 4 U”: Jaime to Cersei

Logic: Given the circumstances in KL, he may have to.

oathkeepr

“If I was your best friend, would U let me take care of U and do all the things that only a best friend can?”

“If I Was Your Girlfriend”: Brienne to Jaime

Logic: Self-explanatory. I just hope they get to see each other again.

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“She was standing by the fire, oooo, she was looking alright. Yeah”

“I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man”: Jon (if he was alive) to Melisandre

Logic: Mel’s man was Stannis, and Stannis is history. And while Jon could use some help from the LoL, they’ll never be another Stannis.

Meereen

“They don’t care where they kick, just as long as they hurt u.”

“Thieves in the Temple”: Meereen

Logic: It looks as if the situation in Meereen isn’t going the right direction. And Harpies or something else in the Temple seems to be inevitable.

61 NK

“All Seven and we’ll watch them fall.”

“7”: White Walkers to Westeros

Logic: The long cold night is upon us.  Will we see a white walker this week?

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“Sexy MF”: Take your pick

Logic: There are quite a few good-looking inhabitants in the world of ice and fire, so to each his own. I’m as straight as they come, but Jaime undeniably has the best attire in Westeros. Who’s your Sexy MF?

Life without Prince will go on and fortunately, he left a vault of music that should keep his royal badness’ fanboys and girls entertained for years (assuming we ever get to hear it). My biggest regret is that I never saw him perform live.

Life without Prince Trystane (and fortunately the show) will go on as well, likely without missing a beat. Maybe this was by design. Maybe it was by misstep. But we truly won’t know until the show concludes.

The good news is that we don’t have long to wait to get a few more answers than we have now, both for what happened to Prince and the significance (if any) of Trystane.

Like a bird flyin’ over the hilltops
Love is like the sky, you know it never stops
From the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks
Love is whatever, whatever you want it to be.

See you guys and gals Monday morning for the Unsullied recap!

Spread some love. Jam some Prince. And may there always be peace in your realm…

–Oz

“Unbowed. Unbent. Unsullied”

Follow Oz of Thrones on twitter.

REMINDER: Please be mindful of the Unsullied and refrain from any spoilery in the comments!!

97 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. He also appeared to be benevolent enough. Several other princes would have Bronn killed or maimed.

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    2. Bwahah red-leather-shirt Jaime is one sexy MF.

      BTW check out the commentary by NCW/Gwen/Daniel Portman for that episode. Gwen teases Nik about whether he “feels handsome” in that outfit, hilarious.

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    3. I’d throw out The Beautiful Ones as Prince’s Jorah to Dany song. 🙂

      Speaking of Prince and tributes, yes, lots of musicians have been including tributes to him in their sets. This, however, completely floored me when I heard it. I mean, hell, it’s David Fookin’ Giilmour, and for me, just thinking of David Fookin’ Gilmour doing a tribute to Prince is beyond cool. Then I heard it, and it completely floored me! Enjoy.

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    4. Bored of Dorne talk. I think fans tend to focus too much on one or two things in an episode (sometimes positive, sometimes negative), and other interesting things are missed. Still, it does allow me to see new things when I rewatch.

      Premieres have a very hard job to do, and are normally amongst the weaker episodes of the season, so there’s a very good chance that episode 2 will be even better than episode 1 (which was a strong, if unspectacular, opening).

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    5. Despite his best wishes, The Artist Formerly Known as Prince will always be remembered as Prince.
      Poor Trystane. I liked him more than Ellaria and the SS, but that’s not saying much.

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    6. Knight of the Walkers,

      It would have been nice to have a post on the red womans big reveal and what people interpret that. I am unsullied and thus never heard of this glamour thing and so many of my friends had no idea what this meant hahaha

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    7. Dee,

      Weirdly this brings me back to 2006-2007…. Just as much Dorne complaining as back then!

      But I was in the different camp back then.. 😛

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    8. I realize you’re going by TV only but I have to remember you’re basically using the modifier “TV-Dorne”.

      As you put it, they “unintentionally” did a solid job of convincing the audience that Dorne isn’t important – which may well be true in the skewed vision of Westeros the showrunners have (in which we don’t have a lot of other stuff either I would say was important).

      Even so….no spoilers: as you might have guessed from the op-ed thread about it, the way I’d say it is…..the Martells are around as important as the *Tyrells* in the overall storyline, they just show up a bit later in it.

      And what I’m annoyed about is that “post hoc, ergo propter hoc” reasoning — the TV version of Dorne stank, therefore they must not have been important? Well, they were important *in the novels* and *could* have been interesting, the TV show really dropped the ball on this — my point being that it wasn’t “inherently unfilmable” or something, the showrunners made some really wacky ideas (the “bad pussy” line was such a cringe-worthy, out of nowhere non-sequitur).

      But I see your point that the TV show *unintentionally* turned Dorne into something not very important.

      But that’s their *fault*. They did something wrong. Stuff doesn’t just “happen”. Really absurd stuff went into Dorne on the TV show.

      I like your writeup here, and as you said: the Dorne stuff was the first time it truly felt like watching something which wasn’t even part of the rest of the TV series. The Talisa stuff in the past was kind of lousy in Season 2, but at least it had Robb and Catelyn in it. This was just…..

      ….the joke from Season 2 on SNL that “a 13 year old boy is one of the lead writers” seems to have been the driving mentality behind Dorne on the TV series.

      Instead of *ever* mentioning “unlike the rest of the Seven Kingdoms, Dorne alone has gender-blind inheritance and treats women as full equals under the law to men”….instead of that, we got utter B-movie level “Bad Pussy”, “You’re a greedy bitch”, poorly thought out fight scenes.

      Dear god, everything that could go wrong on Dorne did:

      1-Season 5 Blu-ray commentary revealed they only came up with it truly at the last minute, AFTER Season 4; at first they thought they wouldn’t be able to film it at all because no previous major characters are in it, but then Cogman said “why not send Jaime?” (which WAS a good idea, but due to being last-minute was poorly executed).

      2 – Benioff and Weiss don’t write women well. And they were convinced that to make the Sand Snakes “cool” they needed to be one-dimensional B-movie killer lady types. But the biggest thing is that they said in the DVD commentary that they liked Indira Varma so much as Ellaria that they decided to give her more to do (instead of introducing other characters like Arianne, the POV narrator for Dorne in the novels).

      So we had 1 – a very much last-minute introduced subplot in Dorne, which they only thought of *right before* they were filming Season 5, not during Season 4, and 2 – with limited time, they wanted to make massive changes to it by focusing on Ellaria.

      Then…

      3 – Production on Dorne was so rushed that Michele Clapton openly complained that they weren’t giving her enough time to make their costumes properly, hence the nipple-gate incident (honestly it’s not really visible in the final version, what with lighting and all, but it highlights how rushed it was)

      4 – ….they *chose* to film in UNESCO World Heritage sites, the Alcazar, knowing full well that this would limit their filming time even further. Only a few days each. Also physically restrict their fight scene filming: only in the outer plaza, and during the *daytime*?

      So we have a subplot added in as an afterthought, with major changes introduced on top of that (which should take even more time to figure out), production so rushed that even the costumers were having problems (which should be a red flag)….and then they willingly chose very restrictive filming conditions? Whch would hamper any fight scenes but also even basic dialogue scenes?

      Why not just film this on an interio sound stage in Northern Ireland?

      Amazing. Season 1 they didn’t have as big of a budget so, necessity being the mother of invention, they’d film major scenes in back lots and then just use a matte painting in the background. Now, with drastically increased budget, they put less thought into any one scene and think “unlimited on-location budget!” is the answer to story structure. Yikes.

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    9. Deep appreciation, oh Great and Powerful One, and nuff respect for working a tribute to the Purple One into your post! Prepare yourself for the deluge of malicious gossip, and outright lies, about to descend upon us in the media, and always take it with a grain of salt.
      Prince (“have you ever been with a prince?”) Oberyn was the most like our Prince, out of all the Dornish characters, but, sadly, the Dorne that his charisma promised hasn’t been evident, so far.
      My sexy MF is Grey Worm. He moves like a dancer, and when he speaks Valerian – phoar!

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      A moving tribute – he touched so many.

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    10. Dee,

      It’s tame compared to what was going on back then.

      Really AFFC was a book that teared the fandom apart. A huge portion of the readers just gave up on reading the series. That’s why most book-forums are full of only 1 opinion, those who disliked AFFC just left.

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    11. My Apologies for the Dorne overload. Beating the dead horse was not my intent. But it was a great excuse to pay tribute to someone who influenced many, and being unmoved by a character that did not.

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    12. Balon01,

      Can I suggest you don’t click on an article if you know you’re not interested in the topic? There hasn’t actually been that much specialized Dorne content anyway. Yesterday’s roundtable, but everything else has been part of the premiere episode discussion.

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    13. I’m sad to see Prince go.

      As for Trystane, I could totally see him with a guitar – or the Dornish equivalent – up on stage with girls screaming his name.

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    14. Oberyn volunteered to put his life on the line and be the champion for Tyrion. No one made him do it.

      You’re thinking rationally, Oz. People who are grieving don’t tend to. Especially people who feel they have been wronged for decades. Ever seen Paradise Lost (concerning the West Memphis Three)? Footage of the murdered boys’ parents is harrowing: they become utterly deranged and bloodthirsty.

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    15. The Dragon Demands:

      2 – Benioff and Weiss don’t write women well.

      That may be your opinion, but in my opinion, I’m going to say this comment is blatantly false. I’m not crazy about the way Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were written, but that irrelevant when it comes to the way that the show’s other female characters have been handled. I think Cersei, Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Daenerys, Melisandre, Ygritte, Olenna, Margaery, Catelyn, and many, many, many other female characters on this show are wonderful, and that Benioff and Weiss have done a great job writing for all of them … which is why I feel as sincerely passionate about all of them as I do.

      If Benioff and Weiss couldn’t write women well, they would be in trouble, because Game of Thrones is full of them. They sure as shit wouldn’t have a television series that’s become a critically-acclaimed, award-winning phenomenon with fans of both genders all over the world, which is more than anyone here can say. Contrary what Ian McShane says, this show is not just tits and dragons. It’s a character-based drama, and many of the best and most beloved characters are women. If Benioff and Weiss couldn’t write for them, this show wouldn’t have such a diverse and committed audience. Not everyone is watching for the pure spectacle of it all.

      And while George obviously created these characters and they’re working off his template, I honestly prefer the way that many of those characters have been written and portrayed on the show to the way that they’re written and portrayed in the novels. Cersei, especially. Blasphemy, I know, but that’s how I feel. I’ll leave it at that, because this is an Unsullied post.

      Ellaria Sand and the Sand Snakes are an isolated case of characters not being up to par, and not emblematic of any kind of systemic issue. You probably feel differently – I know there’s a lengthy article devoted to this topic on your Wiki. But make sure that you specify that you’re speaking for yourself when you throw out blanket statements like this. Many people do not share your view. I certainly don’t. That comment really rubbed me the wrong way.

      Ser Roger Sterling,

      Um … did they do something? I haven’t listened to their most recent episode yet.

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    16. I was never a big fan of Prince’s studio albums, they were too synth-heavy for me (and corny synths at that). It wasn’t until his Super Bowl halftime show that I was able really appreciate his genius. He was an incredibly talented musician who had a genuine love of music. Plus he made Charlie Murphy pancakes.

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    17. Sue the Fury,

      If you can’t find anyone, perhaps WOTW could just throw up a talkback post so people can comment? The Curtain Calls have been one of the very best recurring features of this community since the beginning. Obviously the deaths in Dorne have been a hot topic for the past week, so I know that there’s a risk that this one could devolve into something negative. But Alexander Siddig, DeObia Operei, and Toby Sebastian were part of the show for two seasons (well, one season plus an episode), even if their storyline wasn’t generally beloved. They deserve a positive sendoff, and I’d like to be able to pay my respects to them in the time-honored fashion of this community. 🙂

      If no one else is interested, I’d be willing to write a short piece myself. I can’t do it today because I have a prior engagement this evening. But if you still haven’t found anyone by tomorrow, I’d be happy to put something together so that those of us who are so inclined can raise a glass of Dornish red in their honor.

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    18. Sue the Fury,

      I guess that’s understandable, given Curtain Calls are supposed to be positive, and many did not like Dorne. Are those features strictly regular staff only, or would one of the Guest Writers y’all had for the Memory Lane series be a viable option?

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    19. Oz I wasn’t a huge fan of Prince tho I did like a lot of his songs. But that doesn’t take away the fact that he was a huge influence on so many people and was quite beloved. So much talent, gone way too young (Whats up with this year anyway? Prince, Bowie, Alan Rickman – as someone on FB said ‘I think Geoge R Martin wrote 2016)

      I loved the curtain calls, always read them and enjoy the comments. I suspect the actors like them too (I seem to remember both Rose and Kerry commenting a few times on theirs). Want to see them continue. I know they must be hard work tho; perhaps could you do a few characters together in one single post?

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    20. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I mean, hell, it’s David Fookin’ Giilmour, and for me, just thinking of David Fookin’ Gilmour doing a tribute to Prince is beyond cool.

      Geez, this is a spooky coincidence. After Bowie died, someone posted Bowie singing Comfortably Numb with Gilmour. Gilmour performed Purple Rain with Tom Jones (of all people!) in some concert or another a few years ago. PR was one of Prince’s more “Floydy” songs.

      As for Trystane and Doran, they both are foil for foils, and nothing more.

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    21. Jared,

      Yes please! Your “Memory lane” posts were great, so I’m sure you’ll do justice to the Dorne departed.

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    22. Jared:
      Sue the Fury,

      If you can’t find anyone, perhaps WOTW could just throw up a talkback post so people can comment? The Curtain Calls have been one of the very best recurring features of this community since the beginning. Obviously the deaths in Dorne have been a hot topic for the past week, so I know that there’s a risk that this one could devolve into something negative. But Alexander Siddig, DeObia Operei, and Toby Sebastian were part of the show for two seasons (well, one season plus an episode), even if their storyline wasn’t generally beloved. They deserve a positive sendoff, and I’d like to be able to pay my respects to them in the time-honored fashion of this community.

      If no one else is interested, I’d be willing to write a short piece myself. I can’t do it today because I have a prior engagement this evening. But if you still haven’t found anyone by tomorrow, I’d be happy to put something together so that those of us who are so inclined can raise a glass of Dornish red in their honor.

      That would be great if you could do that. I’m a big fan of Dorne and would love to raise a glass of Dornish red in their honor 🙂

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    23. The Dragon Demands: But I see your point that the TV show *unintentionally* turned Dorne into something not very important.

      It is unimportant in the books, too. When we get to the zenith of the tale, none of the Dornish characters will be important, and nothing that happened in Dorne will be important for why Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, etc., choose one damnation over another.

      If people ask me about reading the books, I always tell them the same thing: skip Crows as it is a collection of irrelevant side-plots, save perhaps for the three Arya chapters. This might be a little less true on TV – what happened in Dorne is going to greatly affect Jaime’s evolution, and Jaime (unlike anyone near Dorne in the books) – is fairly important in the overarching tale. But, then, that is the only reason why B&W included Dorne at all: to serve as a backdrop for Jaime’s part of the story.

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    24. Knight of the Walkers,

      I actually think the opposite. The premieres attend to be pretty strong in my opinion.
      The very first one had me totally hooked from around the midway point. When Bran fell I knew I was watching the best tv-show in the world, I just knew that it was something special.
      The North Remembers in season two was different but fit perfectly for that season, which was all about the war brewing, the different factions and alliances. The premiere was basically a lay down of the map as it was at the time.
      Season 3’s Valar Dohaeris did something in the lines of The North Remembers but wasn’t quite as strong.
      Season 4’s Two Swords was brilliant with the cold opener, Oberyn coming to town and the last scene with Arya.
      For season five it was The Wars To Come, which was also very strong. The map and status quo had changed significantly and it showed the new situations matter-of-factly with a few well written scenes. Mances burning nicely set the tone for the darkest season yet.
      The Red Woman was probably (together with Valar Dohaeris) the weekest of the premieres as you say, but I still think it was pretty good. It was slightly different than the others because the previous season ended on a lot of cliffhangers, so it started more right off the bat. The ending was darkly beautiful, everything with Davos and Jons corpse was good and actually I would also list Dorne as one the episodes’ strongest parts. It was quick, shocking, entertaining and a little sad too, I was sad to see Doran go because he was the only one of the high lords who advocated peace and was willing to break the cycle of revenge in order to keep his people safe, in a way much more noble than say Robb.
      In my experience, when I try to think of an episode number that is the most continuously bad in each season, it actually has to be episode 2. Excluding The Kingsroad from season 1 which was a nice continuation of the premiere and The Lion and The Rose from season 4 which is all sorts of brilliant (that last scene builds tension the way Quintin Tarantino does: slowly to a quick explosive climax), but aside from those episodes the remaining episode 2’s are among the shows ‘worst’. I’m talking about The Night Lands from season 2 which wasvery plotting and just a lot of super short check-ins (probably the strongest of the three thoug because of Theons story). Season 3’s Dark Wings, Dark words I don’t even remember really well. There was a nice character moment for Catelyn Stark and an intiquing introduction to The Brotherhood but other than that it was very forgettable. Season 5’s The House of Black of white had the same thing going, checking up on the storylines that weren’t in the premiere and moving the others along very slowly.
      So: I wont way I’m worried about episode two of season six (Home), but I definately do not have sky high hopes.

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    25. Let’s all just hope together that last week was the last we’ll see of Dorne for a good while (unless Cersei sends an army after Sand Snake heads, which might be even better). Even without considering book material and deviations (which aren’t for this post), man oh man did Dorne suck. There’s not a single redeeming factor in that mess of a storyline. Just disappointment after disappointment. And Oberyn was so cool…

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    26. The Dragon Demands,

      Now we will never know if Doran was a self-deluding dreamer or if he really was a master strategist of the Long Game, unless something he set in motion comes true posthumously. Just because many think he was ineffective and politically unskilled doesn’t mean Dorne consequences won’t be rolling down onto Westeros.

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    27. Dragonmcmx,

      Anyone could. They brought a spear and a whip to a ship cabin. Nym wouldn’t even be able to get a swing, much less hurt someone. Lucky for them, Trystane was dumb and didn’t charge.

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    28. Dragon demands is alaaaaays complaining Hahahaha geez I can’t deal.

      I commend how much time you put into ASOIAF but maybe you should drop the show haha

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    29. Jared: That may be your opinion, but in my opinion, I’m going to say this comment is blatantly false. I’m not crazy about the way Ellaria and the Sand Snakes were written, but that irrelevant when it comes to the way that the show’s other female characters have been handled. I think Cersei, Arya, Sansa, Brienne, Daenerys, Melisandre, Ygritte, Olenna, Margaery, Catelyn, and many, many, many other female characters on this show are wonderful, and that Benioff and Weiss have done a great job writing for all of them … which is why I feel as sincerely passionate about all of them as I do.

      I agree that B&W do write women well over all. A few missteps with the Sand Snakes and Ellaria haven’t ruined the overall impression I have of how well they know these characters, male and female. I do have to add though that I felt their writing of Sansa has been mediocre at best. That could definitely change this year, as it sounds as if she will be the centerpiece of her story and hopefully will be growing at a pace where we can see all how all she has endured shaped her moving forward. Though I do give this one more of a pass because Sansa, if looking at the source they worked with, is a character where it was low on action but heavy on what is going on in her head.

      But make sure that you specify that you’re speaking for yourself when you throw out blanket statements like this. Many people do not share your view. I certainly don’t. That comment really rubbed me the wrong way.

      I think because he wrote it, it’s kind of obvious that it’s his opinion. I don’t think any disclaimer is needed to know that this is his thoughts. People can agree or disagree and debate it but many people may share his view. Or not.

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    30. ash,

      The video has only been up for a few days. It’s from a concert he played earlier this week. I was just reading around the other day, and out of the corner of my eye I caught “Gilmour” and “Prince” in the same sentence, so clicked. It led me to that video. I’m glad you and others enjoyed it.

      Oh, and thanks for telling me there’s a video of Prince and James Brown sharing a stage. I’ll definitely check that out!

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    31. Even though I’m a book reader, I always look out for any posts from Oz…this was so super freaking awesome. Prince was my favorite artist of all time. Nice work, ser!
      And yeah, The Beautiful Ones for Tyrion and Shae.

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    32. kells,

      The Dragon Demands has an unfortunate habit of presenting his opinions as absolute fact, and as the Chief Admin of the GoT Wiki, he’s not shy about taking definitive editorial positions in a place that should be a neutral resource. In light of that, I took objection to his blanket characterization. I don’t doubt that it’s just his opinion, but in this case he could have tempered it with a simple “I think …”

      I definitely understand why you and others may have problems with the way Sansa has been written. Your criticisms are more than fair. But I personally think she’s been handled very well – she’s become one of my favorite characters on the show. And I do think that Season 6 will be her best season yet.

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    33. Jared,

      Excellent. I look forward to it.

      And Oz, another great post. Loved your heartfelt tribute to Prince. And I equally enjoyed your snarky comments about Dorne and Trystane. Your posts always make me smile.

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    34. Connor:
      Dorne isn’t going to be in the next episode, ayayayayay.

      Next episode HYPE.

      Jack Bauer 24: Aren’t Obara and Nymeria in KL?

      Not so sure? Wasn’t there a scene in a trailer with Jamie and Cersi with Myrcella’s body on a bier in the Great Sept of Baelor with the painted stones placed on her eyes? I presume these were the stones Trystane was painting on the boat when the Sand Snakes murdered him.

      I would guess therefore that Jamie knows Trystane is dead and is not a happy bunnie and shit will hit he fan 🙂

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    35. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      I’d throw out The Beautiful Ones as Prince’s Jorah to Dany song.

      Speaking of Prince and tributes, yes, lots of musicians have been including tributes to him in their sets.This, however, completely floored me when I heard it.I mean, hell, it’s David Fookin’ Giilmour, and for me, just thinking of David Fookin’ Gilmour doing a tribute to Prince is beyond cool.Then I heard it, and it completely floored me!Enjoy.

      Yeah, its was brilliant! To include Purple Rain within Comfortably Numb! Gilmour is a guitar ‘God’ and one of (if not) my favourite all time guitarist.

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    36. Thanks, Oz, for another great post. Prince was a god.

      Jared,

      Great! Glad you can keep up the tradition.

      ps: Just don’t feed DD anymore. I know I, at least, just skip most of his comments anyway…

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    37. Greatjon of Slumber,

      I’m sure you wanted to respond to a certain person I’m so desperately trying to ignore, didn’t you? I’m the one who is actually in big disagreement with him.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Jared,

      Looking forward to it, very much so! From what I read, you’re able to appreciate these characters on their own terms, on the show’s on terms 😉

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    39. kells: I do have to add though that I felt their writing of Sansa has been mediocre at best.

      But mediocre is a huge improvement on the source material. Book!Sansa has yet to show any evolution. GRRM basically omitted her from the Crows/Dragons story: she gets three desultory chapters in which nothing happens until the end of the third chapter, and that only starts the “kill the child, become the adult” arc. The Winter chapter that GRRM released a couple of years ago (although it probably was written nearly 10 years ago) shows her taking the first steps that we saw her take at the end of Series 4 and last year. And she seems to be heading for some of the same traps: but, then, character evolution has to include learning from mistakes (a point that some people fail to grasp). However that’s Book 6, which really is the onset for the Final Act of the Overarching Tale.

      Black Raven: I presume these were the stones Trystane was painting on the boat when the Sand Snakes murdered him.

      They might not have been: somehow, I cannot see Cersei allowing those stones to be used! Being Cersei, she will think Trystane just as culpable as the rest of Dorne. As for Trystane’s death, it will be interesting to see if Jaime has evolved enough that he actually cares. He just might have done.

      But as for the SS, I doubt that they would stick around Kings Landing. Heck, they might even have had agents on the boat all along: if so, then that boat will be returning to Dorne. If not, then they could easily enough be back to shore and back on their horses quickly enough.

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    40. Thanks for that post Oz, clever as always. I’m on the fence about show Dorne- Oberyn and Ellaria were fantastic in S4- I’m waiting to see if the rest of the storyline goes anywhere to pass my final judgement. The premier scenes did kick things into higher gear, but its tough to say at this point if that will translate to anything meaningful in the long run, or if the show runners are expediting the storyline just to get beyond it… or to get right down to war (which we likely won’t see until next season)

      Re: Prince. The Purple One. I was fortunate to see him live once, and even got to go backstage, or rather, under the stage… before the show. What a genius songwriter, performer, multi-intstrumentalist. Seriously, the dude played everything, masterfully. RIP.

      Also, the Gilmore tribute was pretty cool. Worked that in nicely.

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    41. Sister Kisser: or to get right down to war (which we likely won’t see until next season

      I would bet on that. In both media, Dorne is being setup to work for a Targaryen restoration.

      Sister Kisser: I was fortunate to see him live once

      Sadly, my only viewing of Prince (on the Purple Rain tour, no less) was marred by seeing it with a girlfriend with whom I was in the midst of having a fairly nasty breakup: it started the day before, went on after the concert, and culminated the next day. Clearly, I needed to take lessons from B&W about how to truncate loose ends! 😀

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    42. Sister Kisser,

      I think it’s worth noting, although who knows what will come of it, and whether, ultimately, it will match up in any way with what happens in the next book,

      the last we knew of the Sand Snakes in the books, two of them (Nymeria and Tyene) were headed to King’s Landing. In the show, two of them are there, now. Even though it’s Obara instead of Tyene, it’s still two Sand Snakes. I’m not sure I see Nymeria trying to infiltrate the Faith, although she’d be a better candidate for it than Obara, but, still, the fact two of them are in KL does line up with the books. Maybe they’re the important element for the end game, or at least moving into it. Martin did say, “And I hope you like them, because you’re also going to be seeing a lot of them in TWOW.” Of course, we have other Sand Snakes in the books who aren’t in the show, but still, whether people like them, or not, it sounds like they have some stuff to do.

      ash,

      Thanks!!! 🙂
      Admittedly, I’m not a fan of Michael Jackson, but you’re right, that was pretty cool.

      Has anyone else seen the picture of Dame Helen Mirren from the White House Correspondent’s Dinner…I think it was last night???

      https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/reliable-source/files/2016/04/526645288_image.jpg&w=480

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    43. Wimsey,

      That’s a bummer, man. Purple Rain must’ve been intense!

      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Helen Mirren!!! Wow. Still stunning, and still pushing the envelope.

      You make a good point.

      Two snakes in KL, will be interesting to see if/how they infiltrate. I don’t expect any Dornish to make the small council (obviously, now) but it could be interesting to see what moves they make, maybe with the Faith? I wonder if they will take Vary’s place and take out Kevan/Pycelle? In the books, I was more intrigued with Sarella/Alleras…

      And this is funny:

        Quote  Reply

    44. Sister Kisser,

      I am betting that the SS will take the role of a cut Dornish character, or (sort of) two of them:

      Arianne & Quentyn

      After all, the Dornish will need allies in this. However, it will be streamlined so that we just get the end-result without the gyrations in between.

      I’m betting… um… the stub from my Prince concert? (Actually, I might still have that somewhere, so maybe not!)

        Quote  Reply

    45. Sister Kisser,

      That was funny, and while I don’t know when I’ll ever hear “Bad,” again, if/when I do, I’ll certainly have a good laugh thinking about “your butt is mine.”

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    46. I definitely understand why you and others may have problems with the way Sansa has been written. Your criticisms are more than fair. But I personally think she’s been handled very well – she’s become one of my favorite characters on the show. And I do think that Season 6 will be her best season yet.

      Sansa is a tough one for me. I really like the character but the transition from season 4 into season 5, I personally felt, was a million steps backwards. Just when it felt like she was building momentum, finally grasping what Littlefinger is capable of and siding eyeing him the entire way, she bought into his “plan” hook, line and sinker. We all know how well that turned out. Married to a psychopath. Up to then, her story always interested me but if felt kind of like an afterthought to all the Kings Landing shenanigans.
      Obviously, I am one of the viewers not crazy about the Sansa in Winterfell plot, though it looks as if the tides are finally beginning to turn. I understand why it was done, merging of plots and giving her something to do other than babysit sickly Robin, but I am so done with Sansa playing the pawn. 5 Seasons is too much, for any of these characters. This is a girl who hasn’t had any “victories”, big or little, to call her own.
      Like you, I am hopeful that this season we will finally get some. Sansa has learned tough lessons, I can’t wait for her to put them to good use. I don’t expect, nor want, “Warrior” Sansa. I don’t even want her in the “game”, as I am sure she wants nothing to do with it either. But she is smart enough now to not trust so easily (thanks LF!) anymore and to begin to trust those who she refused in the past (Theon, Brienne,

      a certain Gravedigger? Because he is coming back, imo, and I believe will serve as another sword for the north

      ). This is a step in the right direction. If she can rally what’s left of the north, I can see her being a key to end game.

        Quote  Reply

    47. kells: finally grasping what Littlefinger is capable of and siding eyeing him the entire way, she bought into his “plan” hook, line and sinker. We all know how well that turned out. Married to a psychopath.

      Yes, but Littlefinger’s plan should have worked. If Ramsay had been a typical bastard-turned-noble, then he would have been pretty easily “trained” by Sansa. They had no way of knowing that Ramsay was a psychopath: one thing that both show and books make very clear is that nobody new much about Ramsay, and that the Boltons are really good at hiding things in general. (For all that people complain that LF should have somehow known, keep in mind that Robb Stark did not hesitate to let Ramsay retake Winterfell, and the Starks knew more about the Boltons than anybody in Kings Landing save perhaps Varys might know: and we are given the impression that the Dreadfort was good at hiding things even from Varys.)

      Moreover, I think that we should not make the mistake of confounding “positive” outcomes with positive character growth. People learn from mistakes and hardships. GRRM in particular is very fond of the idea of having his characters get stripped down to their basics (figuratively and sometimes literally): much of what we see in the Crows/Dragons story is the main characters reaching for new heights, and then crashing to new lows as a result. Sansa does not do this in the book: but she basically is absent from that story. The show seems to have decided to elevate her prominence in the overarching story: and that means like Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Cersei, Jaime, etc., she has to crash and burn as a result of her aspirations.

      What we’ll see from some of these characters after they rise from their ashes is the onset of the characters that are going to be the crux of the climax of the series. This does not mean that Sansa will be one of them: but this does mean that she could be, and that this might contribute heavily in our understanding of why she does whatever she does.

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    48. Wimsey,

      Heck, they might even have had agents on the boat all along: if so, then that boat will be returning to Dorne.

      That would have made sense. Just too bad the writers didn’t show the viewers!

      Re Helen Mirren, I’ve been a fan of her forever, and was so thrilled to be in NYC opening night for her appearance in The Audience, for which she won an Emmy. Fabulous performance, esp when you realize not only was she on stage the entire evening, but the costume changes necessary for each Prime Minister often had to be done on stage which some how she was able to do with ease (we with help from a few stage hands and well placed props, but still) Also saw Eye in the Sky with Alan Rickman (also RIP, sob). Amazing acting

      Re Sansa – I didn’t care for her character in the book; the show has cetanly changed that for me, most likely because of the amazing acting by Sophie. I too am hoping that she finally is able to become, if not a leader, and least someone who can take action for herself.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Respect to his royal badness. As a guitarplayer, I definitely have respect for his musical ability.

      Akash Singh:
      Too many sexy MFs in this series, to be perfectly honest. Emilia, Rose, Kit, Lena, Pedro, Tom, Sophie…

      Lol.. “Sexy Jesus”.

      I’d like to add Natalie and Nathalie to the list off sexy MF’s..

      Wimsey: .The Winter chapter that GRRM released a couple of years ago (although it probably was written nearly 10 years ago).

      But as for the SS, I doubt that they would stick around Kings Landing.Heck, they might even have had agents on the boat all along: if so, then that boat will be returning to Dorne.If not, then they could easily enough be back to shore and back on their horses quickly enough.

      Last year I believe..

      I think the SS in KL would make perfect cannonfodder for Frankenmountain..

        Quote  Reply

    50. ash: That would have made sense. Just too bad the writers didn’t show the viewers!

      Why would they waste precious screentime doing that? The viewers know how people get around in this sort of world. Unless the “how” is important to the plot or the story, it should not be shown. In this case, it is spectacularly irrelevant.

      Ser Oromis Locke: I think the SS in KL would make perfect cannonfodder for Frankenmountain..

      I doubt that we’ll be seeing much more of them. What this smacks of is something that has become common in recent years in “continuing saga” series: the leftovers from the prior series are written out in the first episode of the next series. I think that we’ll see the SS again, but much later in the season.

        Quote  Reply

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