Looking Forward, Game of Thrones Ep. 503: Opening a Can of Grey Worms

CChnME7VEAIjf81Greetings fellow Watchers, and disoriented members of the occult…

We’re glad you found us.

This one’s name is @OzofThrones and on behalf of the crew, a man would like to welcome you home to the Wall where we are ruled only by our own thoughts and fragments of essential professionalism.

Changes sometime breed confusion and many of you have only just found us. Judging by messages we have received, explanations on the relocation may be appropriate before we get to Episode 3.

Oh wait… some of you have already seen Episode 3? We opened this can yesterday, but a man had already authored this…

Welcome to in-season Looking Forward, where Unsullied rule is invoked. (No Spoilers!)

In case you missed it, Episode 501’s Unsullied recap turned into a White Rat Commemorative Love Fest in the comment section. Go figure. Something about the name “White Rat” makes me think of 80’s hair bands and missed opportunities.

CCNjszjUwAAk_jISide Note: I think Axechucker used to be in a hair band. He just strikes me as a guy who used to go everywhere with his Slayer t-shirt on full display. And look at that hair… can you imagine it all teased up and held together with a film of aqua-net? Eeeessshhh.

But enough of the digressions. We need to talk.

Regarding Relocation: Let’s insert a disclaimer here.

**Disclaimer: The purpose of this rehash and/or beating of the dead horse is NOT meant to incite riot in the streets of Internet Blvd. It is merely to inform those who have found this lovely but cold location over the past few weeks an explanation as to why we jumped ship from the old apartment.

Most of you are already well aware. But many have rediscovered us only recently with the start of the new season, and solid communities are built on trust and disclosure.

So if you are late to the party and your inquiring mind wants to know how this shit of a storm of swords happened to land us here with the unsettled weather and breathtaking views, here is the story with a few of the gory details:

Part 1 and Part 2.

If you are already aware of the details surrounding the split, then good. Feel free to move on to the next section.

REEMPHASIS: Again, no one is attempting to pour gas on the fire. This is purely informational. As far as I’m concerned, this fire went out a long time ago. They are their own entity with their own business model and their own procedures. So are we.

They will undeniably make more money with theirs. And I will fault no one for wanting to make some extra dough, so long as it does not come at the expense of plagiarizing another’s work.

And although there may be similarities, the two march to the beat of a different drummer. I won’t encourage you to go over there, but I won’t discourage it either. Thus is the beauty of the freedom of the internet.

Freedom is often times worth more than the almighty coin.

Speaking of the internet…

Regarding Leakage: **Disclaimer #2: This was written before Nate’s piece yesterday and is not meant to rehash what many have already discussed. Nate made some excellent points and should be given some credit for the balls to put his thoughts out there. Good job, Newbie.

For the most part, a man has kept his nose out of this situation due to the fact that it really doesn’t concern me one way or another.

On second thought, well, maybe it does.

We don’t condone it. We don’t advertise it. We’re not going to discuss the content of it. And we’re definitely not going to link to it. Sorry for the inconvenience. And if you don’t understand why, then think about it for minute.

However, the methods people use to obtain access and view, for lack of a better phrase, is really none of my damn business. The internet has brought about freedoms that many never thought would exist. The media and entertainment conglomerates have attempted to make adjustments accordingly. But it goes without saying that their execution remains a work in progress.

In my mind (which is admittedly somewhat distorted), it equates to the early internet issue with Napster in this regard: If you want to come after me for finding a song I want and can easily attain simply by clicking on a “download” button, then knock yourself out. It doesn’t abolish the fact that the download is still there for millions of other users to do the same thing if they are so inclined.

6905146993_7cab7d3173The point is, go after the distributor. And with Shawn and Sean, they did.

The problem now is torrents, and although I realize they are a different animal than P2P, the general concept to the average user is the same.

But regardless, it didn’t make it any less wrong then, and it still doesn’t now.

The difference then was more an issue with availability. There were files on Parker and Fanning’s site you simply couldn’t find anywhere else.

And this is where it ties in…

In the HBO/GoT case, the draw of the availability of all four episodes at once is understandably hard to resist. And I don’t hold it against anyone that folded, especially when considering the Netflix world that we live in where entire seasons are released at one time.

Personally, I am choosing to wait (which I will wear no crowns or win no glory for doing).

But if you care enough about the show to go find it, download it, fangirl or boy over it, dissect it, link it and send it out to your compadres, then you should also be able to fork out what amounts to the cost of a couple of beers or a decent lunch at a shitty chain restaurant. With a budget of roughly $8 mil an ep, it’s fair to say that HBO probably deserves my lunch money for a day.

hboDoes HBO care how many people watch the initial airing? Sure they do. Is it the most important aspect of their business model? Of course not. You know what is.

The flip side is this: If you are still one of the many who has no way of accessing the show, or resides in an area that delays the initial airing for hours or days, or can’t get HBO without buying an entire package of crap, then all bets are off. This lands primarily on the shoulders of HBO for whatever reason, and only they can attempt to fix it.

As an example, if the show airs at 9 p.m. EST Sunday night in the States which equates to 4:00 a.m. Monday morning elsewhere, you should be able to set your clock for 3:45 to pop up with some Pop Tarts and watch it. HBO has made concessions to be able to support such a demand, but if you are still unable to get it when everyone else does, then pirate away on that episode I suppose.

It doesn’t take away from the fact that you should still offer to give HBO some coin, assuming of course the show is accessible to you at one point or another. And if not, buy a mug.

The Fallout: We can argue the objective of screeners until we are blue in the face. And I’m game if you are.

Once again, Game of Thrones will likely become the undesired trendsetter in yet another category. Other networks will recognize the risk and will likely reevaluate the pros and cons as it pertains to advanced screeners.

Who will this hurt more than anyone?

We don’t know for sure as we’ve never seen this type of issue on this grand of a scale.

But most likely, it will be the small guys… the ones with the most loyal fan base and that are arguably more deserving of preseason thoughts and reviews than anyone else. Places like Watchers on the Wall.

Olyver-Profile-HDAnd all of it because some kid thought it would be cool to upload almost half the season to a torrent… a feat in which he/she will wear no crowns and win no glory but will most definitely be sought after by the legal division.

If HBO is sending emails to downloaders, you can bet Olyvar’s ass cheeks they are doing their best to find him/her and the original source.

I hope it was worth it.

Now, Regarding the show: As the rambling in this post has reached a fever pitch, I’m not going to dissect everything I might be looking forward to in 503.

However, if the episode were promised as only a depiction of Winterfell and seeing McElhatton again, my ass would still be planted on the couch with an adult beverage in one hand and a pencil in the other. And James Bond Bolton is in the preview.

GOT503_081914_HS_DSC_3840[1]Roose remains as one of the most intriguing and calculating players left in the Game. Has he done some bad shit? Yep. Does he pass the moral and ethical code of conduct? Nope.

But this isn’t about morals and ethics anymore (not that it ever was).  It’s about survival. And the man seems to know the cost of doing business in Westeros.

I don’t know who Roose, Ramsay and Walda are receiving up there (although I have a pretty good idea), but I’m willing to bet the House it is someone who Roose plans on conspiring with to hold his ground in the North, if not gain a little more.

The other notable who has opened a can worms herself is Dany… I presently find myself more interested in her story arc now than ever before. In contrast, Ozzette is completely over the meandering in Meereen and I’ve seen many commenters who have said their Unsullied counterparts share that view.

I’d like to know how you guys feel about it. So, speak up.

That’s it for me guys and gals! Thank you for visiting this week’s installment of “Unsullied Know Nothing.” See you all Monday morning for the 503 recap.

Until next week, adopt an Unsullied and tell them about WotW, stay thirsty, and may there always be peace in your realm. –Oz

“Unbowed. Unbent. Unsullied”

Follow Oz of Thrones on twitter.

REMINDER: Please be mindful of the Unsullied and refrain from any spoilery in the comments!! No spoilers or hints, period!

91 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I feel like Dany’s whole storyline is dependent on the physical growth of her dragons. She will go to Westeros once they are ready for war, everything else is a distraction. She can’t be your Mysha, sorry, she’s the mother of dragons. And I think that endgame is slowly appearing on the horizon now.

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    2. Well, that was a let down… couldnt you link to one of your previous explanations as to the split-up or make a separate post about all the ramblings you went on and dedicate this post to your speculations and expectations as to this episode ?
      Cause that’s what I came here to read !

      Anyway, greetings Oz and always great to read from you, even if it wasnt what was expected !

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    3. It has been very difficult to keep spoilers from leaked episodes out of the Game of Thrones Wiki.

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    4. WIC’s so-called business model was “set impossibly high quotas that can only be met by plagiarizing Game of Thrones Wiki” – which is why they are now blacklisted as a news source on the wiki, while WOTW is listed on our front page.

      They don’t have a “business model” – they’re morons who have no idea how to run a news site and are quickly running it into the ground.

      As Bronn said last episode, mean people eventually get what’s coming to them.

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    5. The Dragon Demands:
      It has been very difficult to keep spoilers from leaked episodes out of the Game of Thrones Wiki.

      That really sucks!
      I’ve had a hard time avoiding leaked episode spoilers too. The result has had far reaching consequences. When I was younger with a lot less money I would not have hesitated at watching the leaked videos. With the ever widening socioeconomic classes and the number of financially struggling students HBO is missing an opportunity to include huge groups of people. Bad on them.

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    6. I joined the crazed internet fandom just before you fine folks left WiC. I felt kind of like Arya stumbling onto the Red Wedding at the time I arrived at WiC. I first experienced joy and hope to be among fellow die hard fans then I started to look around to see limbs being severed and axes being squarely planted in skulls. It turned out to be a hostile place at a chaotic time.

      I wandered the Riverlands a bit with no particular destination in mind and began to hear whispers of some familiar faces turning up at the wall to take the black. I had to investigate. To my suprise I knew I found a new home among you sorry lot.

      I never cared for the cold and wouldn’t have thought I would find myself freezing in black rags amongst you all today as I have always enjoyed the warmth of Dorne’s sun and women much too much to ever leave. But here I am ready to do battle with my fellow crows, sup my share of hearty stew, and perhaps sneak off to mole’s town for some companionship now and again.

      Thank you for organizing this new gathering place for a road weary soul such as myself.

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    7. Nice post Oz 🙂

      Btw I watch the show with my dad and he pointed out that the (new?) Bolton helmets look like bewwwbs with nipples. Great dad, now I can’t unsee….

      That was probably awkward daddy-daughter moment no. 168 while we started watching the show 😛

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    8. The leaks even affected Oz’s post.

      Oz, I look forward to next week! Your posts are usually a treat! Thank you for your dedication!

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    9. Oz, you do have a way with words.

      The leaks are shitty. And I feel shitty for even being tempted to peek (I didnt). I finally quit borrowing my parents HBO GO password and got HBO NOW (we don’t do cable, just streaming services), I’ve bought every season on blu ray and a few merch items over the years as indirect restitution, I’ve turned many people onto the show (actual paid subscribers, no less). All we can hope for is the numbers balance out, beginning with the 5th episode.

      PS- In my opinion, Game of Thrones has passed that threshold where they even need to send screeners anyway.

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    10. OZ!!! Love your looks ahead, no matter how short. My Unsullied better half has expressed the same frustration with Dany going nowhere (he includes other storylines as well as he has no tolerance for set up). I’m hoping that this ep will revive his interest or I won’t be watching first airings while the Blackhawks are in the playoffs. :-/
      I, however, am SO excited to catch up with the Boltons and follow Arya’s journey forward! Your “James Bond Bolton” cracks me up every time. Thanks again for the entertainment!

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    11. Turri:
      I feel like Dany’s whole storyline is dependent on the physical growth of her dragons. She will go to Westeros once they are ready for war, everything else is a distraction. She can’t be your Mysha, sorry, she’s the mother of dragons. And I think that endgame is slowly appearing on the horizon now.

      I now strongly feel that the whole storyline of the series is dependent on the growth of the three dragons. The author wanted to write about the magical birth of the dragons, but then had to wait in real time till they grew up to take on Ice/White Walkers etc. Therefore, we have a ton of King’s Landing politics and children very, very slowly growing up, everywhere. And yes, it seems that the dragons finally are approaching the size where we can finally proceed with the story of Ice and Fire.

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    12. HelloThere,

      I noticed that. I’ve never seen a website change that quickly.
      Syrio Fo-real,

      WiC started spoiling the show in headlines and then tried to justify it in the comments section. That is when I knew it was time to get out of there.

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    13. There is a fine line between protecting intellectual property and pissing off a fanbase. HBO is coming very close to that line, if not stepping on it right now.

      HBO is having some hiccups with their transition to digital only. I’m not sure if they don’t understand the market or are just too entrenched in the old way of doing things due to cable contracts. $15 a month for HBO Now is a ripoff compared to what you can get on Netflix.

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    14. Hello. I just got to say I wish I found out about this place earlier. I used to go to that other site everyday but slowly I lost interest because the quality dipped steadily after the fansided rebellion.

      Just before the season premiere, I noticed it was a Ghost town, like Jons dire wolf(in the books), it was silent.

      Some helpful Brother of the Nights Watch explained that everyone moved here, and now I’m happy again. Yay!

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    15. rfresa,

      Try it again! It might grow on you.

      I do find it somewhat difficult to speculate on something I know so many have already viewed.

      So my apologies if is not what was expected!

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    16. Oh dear – if the unsullied are finding the Meereen meanderings boring you don’t even wanna know what its like in the books. The show has made it much more interesting.

      Great post Oz! Hope you enjoy ep 3!

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    17. Thanks Oz…and psssst (no that wasn’t a hiss) don’t mind the haters. You can’t please them all. As a total non sequitur: I think hissing should be brought back and be all the rage!!

      To answer your question and this is 100% speculation……I think that Varys and Tyrion will “find” Jorah in Volantis…remember he was banished last season by Danys. Then I see Varys departing the group and Tyrion and Jorah heading to Meereen. Once there, I see Danys agreeing to open the fighting pits as a “makeup” for the beheading of Mossador. Then will come the dragons. Maybe it is my wishful thinking, but that is what I would like to see. From the “stills” out there, we know that Jorah does come back to Meereen and we know that Tyrion does make it there too. It would make sense (where it all seems out of hand to Danys) to use her dragons to bring peace and perspective back to the city.

      There! Now I can sit back and munch my popcorn and see just how stupidly wrong I am. Believe me, it wouldn’t be the first time.

      Keep on keepin’ on.

      Still Brothers without leakage. (even though I am a Chica)

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    18. Kay,

      idk we’re 5 seasons in and the only magical characters are Dany, Melisandre, Bran and possibly now Arya, maybe the Ice v Fire is just a defining chapter in the history of Westeros/The Iron Throne…. and the series end has gotta have something to do with the Starks for the series to make any sense… although I really don’t know what that could be

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    19. Also I’m really liking Meereen this year. I think in the end of season 4 it kind of sucked because even though her choice to learn how to rule was wise and good for the characters in Westeros we love, it just made one and a half seasons of momentum fall away.
      But now we have Varys and Tyrion going to get her which means she doesn’t need the momentum and it’s great to stay with her and see her come into her own and battle with moral dilemmas and pleasing the populace… especially when it’s all laced with danger… assassin terrorists, riots, dragons… it’s what King’s Landing should be.

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    20. I’ve never been bothered by Dany’s “meandering” anywhere, because I have always seen her story as an adventure centered around her, not her goals or objectives. One of the biggest poisons permeating this fandom is impatience (and no, I can’t entirely blame them for it, GRRM does have a lot to answer for).

      But my point is, people look at Daenerys and only think “when is she getting to Westeros?” And that’s not only frustrating, but detrimental to you. Have you ever considered she might never get to Westeros? That her story was one of learning who you are, what you’re capable of, and ultimately letting go of dreams you can’t attain? Now chances are she probably WILL make it to Westeros at some point (I hope so anyway), but what I’m getting at is that people can’t be so narrow-sighted about her story. This is a theme we see time and time again with GRRM’s writing: it’s not about the destination, but the journey.

      Dany’s adventures in Meereen are pretty solid (yes, even in the books), but I feel so many people are so frustrated with the pace and what they’d like to see that they’re incapable of enjoying it.

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    21. Completely off topic…. but since we are talking about GoT Fan websites and fans moving from one to the other. Does anybody know of a good Star Wars Fan Website besides theforce.net? That site needs some major changes and it just isn’t doing it for me for my daily dose of SW news.

      Back on topic…. Dany said in season 1 she wanted to conquer Westeros. We are now in Season 5 and she hasn’t crossed the narrow sea yet. Even if her story is interesting, it can be frustrating for some people who just see it as no forward progress.

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    22. Leanna Targaryen,

      Good for you in getting HBO Now! Think folks don’t realize 1) the other great shows on HBO and 2) that when the show is not paid for, it can ultimately affect the quality of GoT- especially down the road when this thing gets really expensive to produce.

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    23. I downloaded the leaked episodes, but so far have managed to abstain from watching. I’m keeping them in case the temptation gets to be too much, and TBH I fear getting spoiled from that abundant species of asshat, Trollus Internetus….but the idea of having no new episodes to look forward to each week has been keeping me good. And vigilant.

      The moralizing in the other recent post kept me from commenting, but today I can’t help myself. The world is rarely so black and white that ‘good’ or ‘bad’ can be applied to 100% of cases in a scenario like this. I subscribe to HBO Now anyway. And I don’t think HBO Now viewings affect ratings in any way. So if I were to watch these leaks I would feel no guilt. I would hope one thing that everyone could get behind is that leaking episodes like this after you have been shown such trust as to be sent a screener in the first place is a douche move though.

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    24. Oz,

      Thanks for putting those links to the split-up discussion. I’d wondered about that for a while; though, I’d assumed much of what you described. I only “took the black” after those threads were posted as I was still being Pounded by the Giant (that doesn’t sound right, but I’m sticking with it), wondering why the site (and comments) went down the crapper.

      Regarding watching the episodes early:
      I frankly prefer my weekly routine of watching (with no disruptions), digesting, re-watching (with questions from my unsullied wife) and getting ready for the next episode. All the while coming to WotW to check out the reviews and comments to get a different perspective or hear about something I might have missed or just post how friggin’ awesome this story is.
      Am I so different than most people, having no desire whatsoever to go download the next episode?

      And finally, thanks Oz. Your candid and (generally) light-hearted style are always a welcome read.

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    25. umuckurlife,

      Personally I prefer 2 episodes per week.

      Over the last month or so I have come to the realization that binge watching is not good. You can’t digest the content properly. You watch it and it is over with. It doesn’t sink as deep. And you do miss the interaction with other fans on the details of the show. This is something that gets missed with Netflix shows. I end up watching them and then feel like I am all alone as few others finished that particular episode at the same time.

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    26. umuckurlife,

      I have no desire to watch ahead with the leaks either. I kind of hate the binge-watching model. It ruins discussion because everyone has seen a different number of episodes.

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    27. Mormont:
      Kay,

      idk we’re 5 seasons in and the only magical characters are Dany, Melisandre, Bran and possibly now Arya, maybe the Ice v Fire is just a defining chapter in the history of Westeros/The Iron Throne…. and the series end has gotta have something to do with the Starks for the series to make any sense… although I really don’t know what that could be

      If the series end is only about Starks, then I will be bitterly disappointed and will rue the day I started to invest in the series! 😉 I do see that some aspects of the story are about some youngsters on their way to growing up – on their journey to perhaps become what the adult characters in the story are today. Who might become a Cersei? A Hound? etc. But the series has also been advertised as fantasy with Shadow babies, WWs, dragons, etc. so it had better be about some fantasy too. To be honest, I never have any problem with Essos storylines, because I don’t see the story as Westeros politics or the Starks, but a couple of huge problems with how human society is, in the entirety of Planetos, and how balance can be brought about and those problems addressed. If the series is not about that, but something trivial like who will sit on the Iron Throne, or who Jon’s parents are, etc. then it will be a huge let-down for me.

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    28. One more episode, and then I’m looking forward to a full-blown, highly motivated speculation post by Oz yet again. And I will join him on this journey, as there will probably be very little I can predict based on my book wanker knowledge (this last expression courtesy of Ozzy, the other one).

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    29. Kay,

      Oh I have no doubt that Bran and Dany and white walkers etc will be the finale, I’m just saying that really doesn’t define the story, it’s just the last/defining chapter, and the story as a whole has been about the characters of certain families in Westeros. The characters we know and were introduced to in season 1 should have a giant role to play in the big fantasy finale for the structure to make sense

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    30. Oz, great post as always. I like how diplomatic you are, as well as honest and not afraid to speak your mind.

      I didn’t watch the leaked shows coz I actually enjoy watching things week by week as they happen. Perhaps this comes from growing up in a time when that was the only choice you had. Old habits die hard….

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    31. It’s almost surreal to see people coming out with the same drivel about certain plotlines and milestones not being reached, therefore the show sucks. Like Renly’s Peach said, this story is about the characters, less so the events that befall them. People are obsessed with characters jumping through certain hoops as though it’s the only way they can be “adequate” as a character. Just because it’s written on a page? Come on, TV is a different medium completely, as countless people have expounded upon countless times, and a certain rhythm is required to sustain narrative momentum that books, having an incessant narrative, don’t require. To me it’s utterly, utterly bizarre that somebody could somehow not enjoy Game of Thrones merely because they changed a character’s actions, words or fate. That one narrative slight puts you off so much that you can’t bear to endure the rest of it, teeth gritted with self-righteous, entitled rage? The fact is that HBO purchased the rights, they could probably have made the whole thing a camp musical set in 1930’s Hollywood if they’d really wanted to. It’s their show, their property – it’s an entity apart from the books, and more than stands on its own as a great work. If people don’t enjoy the adaptation, they should just stick with the books and stop their whining (it’s ridiculous that people have nothing better to do than whine about totally fictional people, places and things, while half the *REAL* world’s starving and wars rage), or make their own if they really think they could do better.
      D&D may not have translated the series to screen scene-by-scene, but they’ve created a programme of significant emotional, spiritual and philosophical depth, with complex, highly relatable characters involved in fantastical, yet also highly relatable and alleagorical situations. Forget about A to B, forget about Dany in Westeros – by the time the series is over the iron throne will probably be molten scrap metal anyway – slow down and enjoy the journey! =)

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    32. Barristan Selmy,

      1) Books can have some of the stupidest plot devices, but book readers will justify it by saying: “Well, it was in the books.”

      2) You should go to the westeros.org forum to find some people who are consumed with hatred over the slightest changes.

      3) To me, the actions themselves aren’t always that important. It is the “feel” of the show. Game of Thrones has a certain “feel” to it, which is a combination of medieval and fantasy. Star Wars has a certain “feel” to it that you can’t just put modern day music into it and make it work. Game of Thrones (the TV Show) gets the material so well. Changes always have to be made.

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    33. “The flip side is this: If you are still one of the many who has no way of accessing the show, or resides in an area that delays the initial airing for hours or days,”

      Or in the case of Japan, three months. Our provider hasn’t even announced when the series will start. There is no legal way to watch S5 here until sometime this summer.

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    34. I love the Show, and I love the books. In my mind, the two are completely separate entities. While some plotlines may be the same, some others may be completely different. I enjoy the show for the show and the books for the books. There was never a way to make every page and scene in a 400 page book into a 10 hour television season.

      And now we are all getting to the point where the show is to pass what is in the books, and that has me excited for the show. While I will miss reading it, I will still enjoy watching it.

      As to spoilers I agree that to me, watching a new episode every week is what I look forward to. I have not downloaded any leaked episodes, and consider that was a very bad thing to do for whoever leaked it. I hope HBO finds them,

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    35. Dany in Mereen is about Dany trying to prepare for Westeros, eg fulfill Viserys dream and narrative

      It all falling apart is an example of how it doesen’t fit. It isn’t a matter of waiting for the Dragons to be larger. They keep teasing the notion but there are hints it is a major misdirect (clever one too).

      Obviously her true purpose is hinted at by Quaithe in the books and I guess Drogon at the end of E2

      Fully expect Dany to go full Fire + Blood in books and show from S6, then the character will be better than ever, and she’ll conquer and turn pseudo villainess with all pretence of “doing good” being thrown out of the window.

      I actually reckon her arc relates to resurrecting Valyria, her character belongs in the east, not in Westeros. Her character is about House Targaryen moving back to the East from Westeros, symbolised so well by her split and complicity in killing Viserys.

      Her Dragon Drogon is named after an eastern based Khal for good reason, it will predominantly be based in the east. The other two will be taken to Westeros by other characters though

      Dany will only go to Westeros at the very very end as part of a Valyria vs LoAW war

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    36. Oz, mate, you have nothing to apologise for.

      As a sullied, you’re sometimes ridiculous speculation and theories are fantastic although you’ve probably been on the right track more than you know. That said I am actually looking forward to joining the unsullied ranks after this season and having some ridiculous speculation of my own.

      Hats off to you sir your work is appreciated.

      As far as the leakers go, when found, they should be handed over to Ramsay for punishment.

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    37. Just wanted to say that Yes, Oz, you do a great job. Do not let all the negativity and leaks get to you. Just hang in there for 1 more episode after this week and we will all be in the same place again. One BIG Happy Family again. 🙂

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    38. The Bastard,

      The fact that EVERY post over there now has book spoilers in it is absolutely ridiculous. You don’t need to put huge plot points in minor news posts. Any post by that guy who thinks calling himself Razor makes him sound cool and like a pretentious asshole is not a safe post.

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    39. Ghost’s Lunch,

      I never thought of “Fire” staying in Essos and “Ice” staying Westeros.

      I always thought the Targaryans were great conquerors and horrible rulers. When they didn’t have their dragons they quickly lost control. The Starks are not great conquerors but great rulers. There people are loyal to the end to the Starks because they treat people right.

        Quote  Reply

    40. James,

      Yeap, the television show area is almost all book spoiler postings and the book area you can’t even mention the television shows.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Honestly the leaks aren’t nearly as big of a deal as some people make them out to be. All it was, was poor quality low res confirmations for stuff that people either a. already knew was going to happen in the show or b. speculated was going to be on the show, backed with large amounts of evidence.

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    42. Xanth,

      Maybe not in your view, but there are plenty of us who do not want to know what happens in each episode until the episode airs. Beyond the basic principle of whoever is responsible for the leaks being a complete asshole and possibly fucking things up for people in the future (people who played by the rules no longer being privy to screeners because of one dickhead’s actions), it’s, I’m guessing, been a pain in the ass for the people who run fan sites, like the good folks here, and it’s also a bummer for people who have chosen not to watch them to feel like they have to avoid certain threads, lest they get spoiled. I even stopped uncovering anything put in spoiler code, because I learned the first week much of what was underneath there wasn’t about the books, but upcoming episodes, and still that hasn’t stopped me from getting spoiled on certain things, because people think they’re being cryptic, or just not even bothering to cover episode spoilers.

      At least after next week’s episode, things can go back to normal. 🙂

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    43. wizardeyes,

      I actually find the show’s Meereen plot this season very interesting, could that really be because I read the books? I mean it was slow in the books, but it was full of subtext that made it mildly intriguing. Maybe I’m in the minority for this one.

      BTW, should I get the “Hodor Hodor Hodor” one or the “A Mind Needs Books Like A Sword Needs A Whetstone” from here: http://store.hbo.com/drinkware/index.php?v=hbo_shows_game-of-thrones_mugs-and-glasses? I can’t decide!!

        Quote  Reply

    44. mariamb,

      But of course. 🙂
      On a personal note, one of the reasons I can’t wait to get past it is I’m not really “ranting, angry internet chick,” yet I’ve become one a few times over the past couple of weeks.

      MaesterofMasonry,

      I’d go for the “Hodor” mug. I love the quote about books, but no matter what kind of day I’m having, seeing the “Hodor” mug would make me smile.

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    45. Oz,

      I’m such a fan of your posts. I am a Sullied and truly appreciate your take on it (I am similarly experiencing the Harry Potter books the first time vicariously through a friend of mine at work, who somehow managed to not get spoiled on ANYTHING related to Potter and I’m flabbergasted and overjoyed by it — I take a similar pleasure in reading your posts).

      Regarding viewers’ thoughts/feelings on Dany: I would say that it’s obvious the fandom is split, even among Sullied readers. For me, I think that her growth in Meereen may be necessary for her potential success if and when she eventually makes it to Westeros with a claim. I also think something is lost in translation that in the books she’s like… 15 years old. A lot of the “mistakes” she makes is her learning to rule. I always thought her choice to stay in Slaver’s Bay — for the moment — was a good idea.

      I am a fan so far of how they are interpreting her story from the books. I am eager to see how it goes, and although I hesitate to state Dany is infallible, I am a fan of her story in general. When it drags, I try to remind myself that there is likely a point to it all and it will pay off in the end.

      And as some other folks here have stated: DRAGONS. She needs to figure out how to manage/train/tame/synonym her children before she can use them as a necessary tool for conquering the Seven Kingdoms.

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    46. MaesterofMasonry: I actually find the show’s Meereen plot this season very interesting, could that really be because I read the books?

      Well, I have not read the books, and I find the Meereen plot to be interesting, serious and quite thought-provoking. Certainly much better than King’s Landing politics, for sure! 🙂

      Phyllis Ashley: A lot of the “mistakes” she makes is her learning to rule. I always thought her choice to stay in Slaver’s Bay — for the moment — was a good idea.

      I agree. I mean, she is making mistakes, and learning how to rule. We don’t yet know if she will be a good ruler when she grows up or not, but it is a good idea for her to learn, become an adult about it and be more prepared for the future. I find fans writing her off as being “mad” or a “villainess” just plain silly. Also, if she is failing as a ruler, can we find any single person in the show who is a good ruler? Any one? Including everyone at Westeros?

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    47. The Bastard:

      Does anybody know of a good Star Wars Fan Website besides theforce.net? That site needs some major changes and it just isn’t doing it for me for my daily dose of SW news.

      You can try the sites Club Jade or Making Star Wars. Just be careful of any article containing spoilers on The Force Awakens.

      As for theforce.net, to me it’s the WiC.net of Star Wars. I stopped visiting a while ago because there’s not much substantial news posted there anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    48. I think Dany’s arc this season is more interesting than season 4. But having read the books and knowing more or less what to expect out of season 4, I wasn’t disappointed with what they did there either. Her season 3 was obviously strong (Dracarys), and she was probably the most interesting character in season 1.

      So overall, I think for all the crap Dany gets- she ain’t half bad. Yes, season 2 meandered, and she had an annoying attitude in both that and season 4- which made it a bit harder to watch… But overall, I always liked Dany’s storyline. People just want her to rush to Westeros (I don’t blame them, honestly) so they don’t appreciate what both D&D and GRRM are giving to us with her storyline.

      And onto episode 3, I can’t wait for more quality Reek screentime! Alfie is the most underrated actor in the show, and Theon is the most underrated character. Hopefully this season will change that.

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    49. On Dany’s mistakes as a ruler, “Dany is a crap queen” and what not… I think people are really missing how much of a turdpile Meereen is. It’s honestly a Lose-Lose situation. Either you compromise your values and your sense of justice or you end up with citizens that hate you and and organized seemingly leaderless (at least in the show) terrorist group. And the only other option would be to leave Meereen and the Slaver’s Bay which, judging by the situation in Astapor and Yunkai, would probably reverse every change Dany has made and only cause more pain for the slaves (her “children”).

      I think in the end, there is no solid solution for the Slaver’s Bay issue- just like there’s no solution for the Middle East. Dany and the slavers just have a completely different mindset, and they’ll never reach a compromise that will satisfy either of them and last more than a little while.

      Meanwhile, we see Dany lose control of her other “children”. They are, in my opinion, symbolism for Dany and her true purpose (to be a Targaryen queen- in Westeros). In season 4 she chooses to stay, and she locks up her dragons. In a way she also locked away the real Dany. One dragon managed to get away, and this also shows that there’s still hope, that she can still get to Westeros eventually. I think that moment at the end of episode 2 showed just how much she wants to get out of Meereen- but her duty and her dedication to her other “children” prevent her from doing it.

      In the end I think she’ll have to choose between one child (the dragons and Westeros) and the other (the slaves and Meereen). Question is, what will too her over in favor of the former?

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    50. Barristan Selmy:
      It’s almost surreal to see people coming out with the same drivel about certain plotlines and milestones not being reached, therefore the show sucks. Like Renly’s Peach said, this story is about the characters, less so the events that befall them. People are obsessed with characters jumping through certain hoops as though it’s the only way they can be “adequate” as a character. Just because it’s written on a page? Come on, TV is a different medium completely, as countless people have expounded upon countless times, and a certain rhythm is required to sustain narrative momentum that books, having an incessant narrative, don’t require. To me it’s utterly, utterly bizarre that somebody could somehow not enjoy Game of Thrones merely because they changed a character’s actions, words or fate. That one narrative slight puts you off so much that you can’t bear to endure the rest of it, teeth gritted with self-righteous, entitled rage? The fact is that HBO purchased the rights, they could probably have made the whole thing a camp musical set in 1930’s Hollywood if they’d really wanted to. It’s their show, their property – it’s an entity apart from the books, and more than stands on its own as a great work. If people don’t enjoy the adaptation, they should just stick with the books and stop their whining (it’s ridiculous that people have nothing better to do than whine about totally fictional people, places and things, while half the *REAL* world’s starving and wars rage), or make their own if they really think they could do better.
      D&D may not have translated the series to screen scene-by-scene, but they’ve created a programme of significant emotional, spiritual and philosophical depth, with complex, highly relatable characters involved in fantastical, yet also highly relatable and alleagorical situations. Forget about A to B, forget about Dany in Westeros – by the time the series is over the iron throne will probably be molten scrap metal anyway – slow down and enjoy the journey! =)

      Best post i’ve ever read on here. Bravo!

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    51. jentario,

      I think the show is making a lot of parallels between Dany & Jon this year. They will both be forced to rule. Both with people who can’t be changed. Dany has the people of Mereen and Jon has the Wildlings.

        Quote  Reply

    52. True story, Oz:

      I once wore an Iron Maiden and a Duran Duran shirt to school on consecutive days. I was roundly mocked for both of them by various groups, and then mocked by both sides for days after.

      The message being, apparently: Pick a side!

      But I shan’t! ‘Cause Backstreet’s back, alright!

        Quote  Reply

    53. jentario,

      I sometimes think people expect Dany to be the perfect child queen. What story is that. Isn’t it more interesting to see a character actually learn how difficult ruling truly is.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Kay,

      In my opinion, Davos and Tyrion have both shown to be excellent at politics. If whomever ends up ruling has either of their counsel, they have a more than decent chance of a successful reign. However, I’m becoming more convinced that there will not be one single ruler at the end.

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    55. You want to hear my opinion on the Dany storyline? Well…we all say we want grey characters and complex motivations and tropes subverted but when the rubber meets the road most people fall back on the attitudes and narratives the story tries to illuminate.

      With Dany GoT is giving us a unique look at what can go wrong with good intentions and that conquest and occupation by and outside “savior” can cause more harm than leaving even the very worst status quo intact, but we don’t want to see that. We want Dany to fly off on her dragons and find some bad guys to blow up, Michal Bay style.

      Back in Westros there’s that whole White Walker thing, you know, the existential threat that makes all the plotting and politicing over the Iron Throne a waste of time. Is anything being done about that? Well there was a little disabled boy searching for ancient wisdom that could save humanity…”yawn, I’m bored with that story…what’s Stannis doing? he’s such a badass, wasn’t he raising an army to fight the White Walkers?…ok so he’s killed a bunch of wildings (the bad ones I think) and now he’s turning his army around in order to slaughter every Bolton conscript and goldcloak between him and the throne. Awesome! strength and conviction before wisdom and compassion! Stannis for president!”

      I’m just saying we get the entertainment we deserve so be careful what you wish for.

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    56. Hey, episode 50 is up on HBO’s schedule and… :/ it’s only 57 minutes. I was really hoping for a finale with an extended runtime.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Balerion The Cat,

      Don’t worry, that’s just a place-holder length. Plenty of other episodes this season were listed as that too before they were updated to be either longer or shorter than that. Also it’s rating, as well as 506 and 509’s, is a place-holder as well. Given what we know happens in 509 and 510, it is very apparent that they contain quite a bit more than just “adult content and adult language”.

      Give it a bit of time and we’ll likely find out that’s it’s over an hour like the past year’s finales have been. 😉

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    58. James: The fact that EVERY post over there now has book spoilers in it is absolutely ridiculous. You don’t need to put huge plot points in minor news posts. Any post by that guy who thinks calling himself Razor makes him sound cool and like a pretentious asshole is not a safe post.

      Take a look at posts tagged by author and it’s hilarious to see just how few comments he gets. Don’t worry, nobody’s reading his spoilers.

        Quote  Reply

    59. The Bastard,

      Not only in this season(even before),but hopefully we’re not going to Jon/Dany happy King/Queen ending(not very GoT).Let’s be honest,if Jon will marry Dany than it will be out of love not because of politics.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Piracy is the only reason I was able to start watching GOT. while I was a starving student spending 8 hours a day formating USB sticks I had little else to do but stream tv and movies and I stumbled across GOT. I then told all my friends how awesome it was. Some of them even went and purchased HBO for season 2. And every year my wonderful girlfriend buys me the blu-ray. I have never personally spent a dime on GOT but don’t underestimate how much revenue my Piracy has generated for them.

        Quote  Reply

    61. The Bastard,

      I used to go to the Westeros.org site more at the time I found first found out about “Game of Thrones”. Nowadays I tend to avoid it. I suppose it can be said in the favour of the people running that site that they supported the ASOIAF books long before their adaptation became a hit TV show.

      Now more generally, and not addressing Bastard’s comment, I haven’t visited the site that shall not be named (i.e. not Westeros but the one from whom some of the writers here jumped ship) for some while either. I’ve said before it was the silly pop-up polls that did my head in, whether this person was “hotter” than that person etc.

      I have always (to date) enjoyed Oz’s posts and strictly speaking he is right about how one should gain access to the show though I find it a grey area. The company that shows “Game of Thrones” in the UK is not cheap. It is a case of watching at a friend’s who has that TV channel, waiting for the DVDs or being naughty.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Barristan Selmy:
      Like Renly’s Peach said, this story is about the characters, less so the events that befall them… To me it’s utterly, utterly bizarre that somebody could somehow not enjoy Game of Thrones merely because they changed a character’s actions, words or fate”

      You seem to be contradicting yourself here. How can it be “about the characters” if the principle characters don’t have more-or-less the same fate, and actions and words that at least parallel one another? You aren’t telling the same story, or as D&D put it “getting to the same place” merely by placing the right rear end on the Iron Throne in S7E10.

      Anyway, we will see how this season goes. There are more strong deviations from the book plots in the first few episodes than there were in the previous four seasons, and the two big ones (Sansa and Jaime) require layers upon layers of smaller changes in order to even be remotely plausible.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Brandon Stark’s Monster: while I was a starving student spending 8 hours a day formating USB sticks

      I’m confused. USB-sticks come formated from the manufacturer, do they not? Was it your job to do it by hand?! – Was is like:

      Boss: Hey Brandon, here is a new batch. 500 this time. FAT32 as usually.

      Brandon Stark’s Monster: Boss, no disrespect, but why do I have to do it all by hand? The other manufacturer have automatisms for that…

      Boss: We do quality work here, son! You’re responsible for these USB-sticks!. They’re your little, oblong children! Is that clear!

      Brandon Stark’s Monster: Yes, boss…

      Boss: Great. – And you should start giving them names, makes you care more. Which reminds me… I have to get back to work, Alexander had a formatting error.

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    64. Barristan Selmy:

      The fact is that HBO purchased the rights, they could probably have made the whole thing a camp musical set in 1930’s Hollywood if they’d really wanted to.

      Oh mah gods. Can you imagine? Stannis and Davos in snappy suits and fedoras. Tyrion’s show-stopping tearjerker of a ballad “Half-Man, All Heart”. White Walkers and the Night’s Watch facing off at the Fist of the First Men in choreographed fight-dancing a la West Side Story. It would be IMMENSE.

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    65. The thing about Mereen et al. is that unlike all places in Westeros, there is no immediate (first-person) presence except Dany’s retinue. They move into a new place and it and its people are never more than the other. It isn’t like that in other places. I suspect that has something to do with it falling a bit flat for some people (don’t know how it goes in the books). Though, some of the show’s greatest moments are Dany’s.

      I don’t think anybody landing on the iron throne in the end would be a satisfactory (or believable or artistically sound) ending to a show with a “musical chairs” title. Dany in Valyria is a good solution, giving up the game. A king of the North for real. Decentralization.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Axechucker:
      True story, Oz:

      I once wore an Iron Maiden and a Duran Duran shirt to school on consecutive days. I was roundly mocked for both of them by various groups, and then mocked by both sides for days after.

      The message being, apparently: Pick a side!

      But I shan’t! ‘Cause Backstreet’s back, alright!

      Run to the Hills cause I’m Hungry like A Wolf.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Balerion The Cat,

      The runtime for Episode 50 has been updated on HBO’s schedule. It’s now listed at 61 minutes. That’s not a record for the series (a distinction which still belongs to “The Children” at 66 minutes) but that length is more in line with the runtime for the show’s other season finales. 🙂

      Still no adjustments to the content warnings for that episode or Episode 49, however. I assume those will be made in due time.

        Quote  Reply

    68. maester_blaster: You want to hear my opinion on the Dany storyline? Well…we all say we want grey characters and complex motivations and tropes subverted but when the rubber meets the road most people fall back on the attitudes and narratives the story tries to illuminate.

      With Dany GoT is giving us a unique look at what can go wrong with good intentions and that conquest and occupation by and outside “savior” can cause more harm than leaving even the very worst status quo intact, but we don’t want to see that. We want Dany to fly off on her dragons and find some bad guys to blow up, Michal Bay style.

      This. If Dany blazed her way into Westeros with a Fire & Blood attitude all the while, I think it would be rather boring in terms of character development. I like that we’re seeing the struggle of ruling, and in other ways it’s super interesting to observe and analyze it with a post-colonialism lens. I hope this doesn’t read the wrong way: but I really think that the story is just so much smarter than a lot of viewers recognize, or at least, that the viewers are not giving credit for because they don’t value this level of depth; they just want Dany to take off to the west RIGHT NOW. It doesn’t do her justice.

      Not to mention I think we will see that Dany. The woman who captured everyone’s attention Season 1 and in Season 3 Ep 4 (“Dracarys”) will return for the end game, methinks. If she were to up and leave Slaver’s Bay right now, that would also be counter to everything she wants to stand for. So, what, she’s supposed to liberate these cities from Slavery and then say, “NAH, nevamind. I’m going back to Westeros now”?

      I haven’t any idea how Dany will end up leaving, or what events may inspire her to do so, but I expect that all we’ve seen so far will pay off, even if we’re unable to predict how as we speculate and disagree with each other.

      One final thought: I don’t understand why people are so critical of Dany’s decision to execute Mossador last ep. Quoting:

      jentario: Either you compromise your values and your sense of justice or you end up with citizens that hate you and and organized seemingly leaderless (at least in the show) terrorist group. And the only other option would be to leave Meereen and the Slaver’s Bay which, judging by the situation in Astapor and Yunkai, would probably reverse every change Dany has made and only cause more pain for the slaves (her “children”).

      It’s not so black and white (AHHHH, episode title), unfortunately. Jentario’s comment pretty much sums it up. There’s no way to please everyone, and so far, it appears that her values and sense of justice is her priority. She simply can’t let the law slide when those she liberated are the perpetrators. The former masters expect too much of the old and hate her, and the former slaves expect too much leniency for sake of said liberation and look like they may start to hate her. And, what Mossador said, “They only understand blood”, perhaps this is true of the former slaves too? Dany is fighting a battle that cannot please everyone (and such is politics/monarchy).

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    69. In case people have forgotten, NO SPOILERS are permitted in Oz Unsullied posts, which this is. Post with spoilers will be deleted.

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    70. Sorry, Sue.

      As it was not anything having to do with the books, nor information gleaned from having watched the episode (which I have not), but merely an updated synopsis I saw on my television this morning, I didn’t think there was anything wrong with posting it here. I’d only put it in spoiler code in case some people wanted to know absolutely nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    71. So many unmarked spoilers! It’s a wonder that Sue has enough time and energy to snag them all. Maybe add a mod to help out. Like me. I would be perfect for the role. Cumsprite for mod! Announcing my candidacy now.

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