King’s Landing held by soldiers in Season 8 —but are they Lannister or Unsullied?

As of yet, Lannister soldiers and Unsullied have only fought at Casterly Rock—but that may change in Season 8!

Lannisters and Unsullied only fought once, at Casterly Rock—but that may change in Season 8!

It’s been a while since we’ve seen any concrete filming, or even rehearsals, at the new King’s Landing set on Belfast’s Titanic Studios. With Itálica down in Spain closed down for filming yet nary a murmur coming out of it, thankfully the situation in Belfast has changed and we have yet another glimpse at what they’re filming on that immense set: soldiers were sighted manning the city walls—but were they Lannister … or Unsullied?

Eric Deering took the following photos of filming at Titanic Studios, which show people on the wooden platforms on top of the towers that guard the city gate. We know this is a shoot instead of just crew members admiring the scenery not only because they look vaguely more like soldiers, but more importantly because of the crane (for lighting?) and the fact that the modern safety rails that once surrounded the platforms are gone.

Photo: Eric Deering

Photo: Eric Deering

Photo: Eric Deering

Photo: Eric Deering

These pictures pose a bit of a conundrum regarding their context. On the one hand, the Lannister flags that so recently flew over the city gate are nowhere to be seen here, which may point to the featured soldiers being Unsullied after taking over the capital. On the other hand, you may notice the walls are intact, which suggests this scene takes place before the battle in King’s Landing. As you may recall, the gate was first built in ruins and later covered up with an intact facade, so that the set can quickly transition from before to after the city is breached, with no additional construction required.

This apparent discrepancy could mean a number of things. Maybe these shots avoid the gate, allowing for the scene to take place after the gate is destroyed. Perhaps the Lannisters are brought down by some other method, in which the wall is not breached, and the total obliteration of the gate happens later, perhaps at the hands—or rather, flame-throwing fauces—of the Night King’s wight dragon, Viserion. Or perhaps these aren’t Unsullied and the Lannister flags are missing for a perfectly innocent reason.

It could also mean something else entirely! Another interesting factor we may want to consider is that Maisie Williams and Nikolaj Coster Waldau have been on Belfast these last few days, though we don’t know if they were involved in the King’s Landing shoot. After all, Titanic Studios is full of interior sets. How would you solve this puzzle?

115 responses

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    1. Seems like inga was perfect with his prediction…

      Kings landing was taken over by targaryen forces peacefully. Jaime kills cersei and open the gates…tge targ forces took down lanister banners and guard the city gates…

      The gates will be destroyed later by nk

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    2. Interesting one this but not really sure I want to know the answer as by default it will mean spoilers as it happens at the end of the season or at least the last few episodes.

      I really don”t want to know if Dany or Cersei is dead at this point in time or if it’s the Night King attacking either so I can watch S8 and enjoy the fact we don’t know who lives or dies.

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    3. It’s funny because I have to agree with Jon Snowed. I kind of like the fact that there haven’t been a lot of spoilers because I have no willpower and with all the secrecy this year, I’m more excited than normal…As to what could be happening? Well I’d like to think this is after Jon and party have taken over, but the intact facade makes me wonder.

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    4. If that is unsullied and the Lannister flags are down without evidence of a big battle than perhaps Jon’s talk with Cersei was successful and she renounced the throne allowing them to enter the city peacefully (which sounds crazy) or they took her out in a more personal way (Arya)

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    5. “but were they Lannister … or Unsullied?”

      “I’ve heard conflicting reports.”

      – Lyanna Mormont aka that “wretched girl…Lady of Bear Island and a child of ten.”

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    6. “It could also mean something else entirely! Another interesting factor we may want to consider is that Maisie Williams and Nikolaj Coster Waldau have been on Belfast these last few days, though we don’t know if they were involved in the King’s Landing shoot. After all, Titanic Studis is full of interior sets. How would you solve this puzzle?”
      ———————
      Yay! S8: Arya Super Ninja Assassin Warrior Princess Fantasies!™

      ™ Sorry Talvikorppi… 😏

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    7. Jon Snowed,

      Me too! I’d rather just know that there was filming of battles between Blobs* without knowing who they are.

      * I forget who came up with this apt description. Was it Pigeon?

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    8. I’d like to know who they are only if it’s who I would want it to be and if all my favorite “good guys” are still alive. Is that too specific and unreasonable? 😛

      interesting factor we may want to consider is that Maisie Williams and Nikolaj Coster Waldau have been on Belfast these last few days

      Okay now, that’s just stoking the fires!! If they are filming for KL together without others from the J&D side the first thought is that Jaime has died and Arya is using his face. That’s the extreme. Would Jon really allow Arya to take such a risk?

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    9. With Dany’s Personality, I would be really surprised if there weren’t enormous Targ flags hanging the second she takes King’s Landing. So maybe another option than all of those options listed above 🙂 Jon perhaps?

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    10. BeardedOnion,
      I’m not so sure anything about S8 is going to resolve itself peacefully to be honest. That would seem a bit strange given all the buildup. And Cersei is not the capitulating type — she’ll go down fighting to the bitter end.

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    11. I can’t see either Sansa or Arya being the ones to ultimately destroy Cersei. I believe they will both play a big role in the final arc involving her but I suspect they will put revenge behind them and move on, D&D and GRRM have made it very very clear that revenge is no good, it’s selfish and only leads to more misery, hate and in time, your death. It’s one of the biggest themes and to have Arya killing her would be both predictable and hurts that overall theme. Same with Sansa and Arya having her tortured to death. D&D have constantly told us that we should be worried about the path Arya is on too.

      I believe narratively, the most satisfying conclusion would be Jaime. Their stories are tied, Jaime ultimately being driven to kill her for whatever reason would be much more powerful than glorifying vengeance.

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    12. Enharmony1625:
      BeardedOnion,
      I’m not so sure anything about S8 is going to resolve itself peacefully to be honest. That would seem a bit strange given all the buildup. And Cersei is not the capitulating type — she’ll go down fighting to the bitter end.

      I never said it would be successful. 😉

      It would indeed break Cersei’s character if she simply surrendered. There will be a major battle, which is why I believe this isn’t unsullied soldiers peacefully occupying the city.

      Neither Cersei nor Dany will accept anything other than being the ruler, despite the fact that neither will be ruling the 7K by the end.

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    13. House Monty,
      Roshan,

      I’ll cover my specullation for the sake of those who don’t want to know too much:)

      I think that Dany’s army entering KL peacefully doesn’t mean that Cersei will be dead at this point. My guess is that, after having a talk with Jon, she’ll open the gates just to lure her enemies into the trap (wildfire is still underneath the city). Sure, the gate may be opened by someone else, too, like Gendry’s friends (I guess he could rally some citizens). Even the Lannister soldiers may rebell. But one way or another, it won’t be GOT-like to kill Cersei, so that the War for Dawn could proceed undisturbed. Quite on the contrary: it would be much more GOT-like to have the protagonists caught between two fires, when the Night King comes. And the outcome may be tragic: Dany and, maybe, Jon can come out of the fire unburn but the rest may be doomed allong with 1 million redshirts and that may be the bitter part of the sweet. And even if Cersei’s plan fails, based on our experience with this show, we’ll be on the edges of our seats till the very last episode.

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    14. There is still no evidence that the NK and his army will go south, or be part of this battle.

      So far, it seems they will be stoped in the North.

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    15. All we know so far is

      the army of the dead will still be a threat as far as episode 4

      . But surely we don’t really want to know if they are involved given what is being filmed is very likely the last two episodes in this set.

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    16. BeardedOnion: I can’t see either Sansa or Arya being the ones to ultimately destroy Cersei. I believe they will both play a big role in the final arc involving her but I suspect they will put revenge behind them and move on

      At this point I don’t really think she will be the one to kill Cersei. However, I can come up with reasonable scenarios where Arya would be the one to do it that wouldn’t be specifically about revenge but a necessary act that only she has a chance at accomplishing. She might even be asked to do it rather than just going at it on her own. The easiest scenario to think of involves “burn them all!!” If Cersei locks herself in the Red Keep and threatens to burn/explode everything and everyone in the city if any army or dragon approaches they’d need someone who can get close to her. There is only one person that might be able to and that’s Jaime. If he’s dead and she doesn’t know that…

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    17. It was reported in an article by this site and came from Javi at Los Seintos Spanish ASOIF site; they leaked/reported that two actors (I won’t name them) filmed scenes which is from episode 4 and what happened in those scenes.

      It”s not a huge spoiler but as this isn’t a spoiler article (I wouldn’t have read it otherwise) I want to be fair to the general readership.

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    18. Ëonwë:
      Inga,

      How do you block spoilers? Because I want to talk about some of the things you said.

      Write your comment between [ spoiler] and [ /spoiler] without any spaces inside the brackets. You shouldn’t feel the need to spoiler block your speculations or thoughts regarding somebody’s made-up scenarios though.

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    19. Jon Snowed,

      And frikidoctor in youtube posted a video telling why he thinks that photo was taken out of context. Basically he said that it wasn´t the shooting of a scene but the shooting of a Behind the Episode.

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    20. Jon Snowed,

      Ok. But still that has nothing to do with the last two episodes. There is no evidence that they are part of KL’s battle.

      And if the NK is gone by E4, that it very similar to LOTR books, that GRRM loves so much.

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    21. Yes sorry Mau, I wasn’t suggesting when the Nights King dies (assuming he does) only that we don’t know beyond a certain point due to the excellent way spoilers have been kept under extreme control.

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    22. About Cersei´s fate. It doesn´t make sense thematically for any other character but Jaime killing her. Just as Jon´s parents. Thematically it could only be R+L.

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    23. Jon Snowed,

      Yeah I know. But they will shoot this KL battle soon. If there are no extras to play members of the Army of the Dead, it is safe to assume that the NK is gone.

      And since it seems that the northern battle will be bigger in scale than KL’s battle, it doesn’t make much sense that the NK will be defeated in smaller battle.

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    24. Thanks I wasn’t aware of that as largely avoiding spoilers, that one wasn’t too bad though. That said, an actor/actress posted on their instragram/twitter a picture of them on set that same day and I would imagine was the same scene so I wouldn’t rule it out either.

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    25. Jon Snowed:
      Thanks I wasn’t aware of that as largely avoiding spoilers, that one wasn’t too bad though.That said, an actor/actress posted on their instragram/twitter a picture of them on set that same day and I would imagine was the same scene so I wouldn’t rule it out either.

      I’m not sure I understand what you want to say. 😀

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    26. mau,

      So far it seems that season 8 has two arcs.

      Episodes 1-3 war in the north against the AOTD.

      Episodes 4-6 war against Cersei and end.

      Who is the director shooting in that set. That would tell us what chapter is.

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    27. BeardedOnion,

      I don’t think it’s either/or and I don’t think it will vengeance. Arya has skills but Sansa has the intel: she has seen Cersei under siege, she knows how her mind works and that she was ready to kill all and everyone in the Red Keep, should the battle go ill – including her own children. So, if Cersei really

      lures Jon and Dany into KL under the pretense of joining forces to protect the living

      , Sansa will speak against it. However, Jon won’t listen and then it would be up to Arya (and, maybe, Jaime) to do the dirty work in order to protect everyone.
      However, I’m affraid that by this point Cersei may still be pregnat. Sure, it would be much more convenient, if she miscarried or made an abortion, but GOT have never went the convenient path. And therefore, I suspect that the trade between the life of one unborn innocent child and the lives of a million will happen in the most gutwreatching way. And that would make the ending bitter, even if all of the protagonists survive and live happily ever after.

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    28. Ëonwë: Thematically it could only be R+L.

      I suppose that could have been Robert & Lyanna and have worked in a different way to this point. Jon would then have been the Baratheon heir and the son of the man that led the rebellion that killed Daenerys’ brother, the rest of her family and usurped the throne. Now that would have been a reveal to cause issues. I know some less than hardcore fans that did guess Jon was Robert’s son when I asked after S6.

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    29. Ëonwë,

      Yeah.

      The more I think about it, the more I’m convinced that the NK will be gone in the North. We still have no evidence that AOTD will be part od KL’s battle. Think about it. D&D spent S6 and S7 to bring everyone who will fight against AOTD to Winterfell. First they brought Sansa and Jon and characters around them. Then they brought Arya and Bran, and Jon will bring Dany and Tyrion and all characters around them. And then BwB, Gendry and Jaime will also come there. They brought Sam and Gilly at the end of S7.

      My question is why bother if the real fight will be in the south? Jaime could’ve joined them in the South. Sam and Gilly as well. BWB, Gendry and Daenerys. They were all in the South. If the real battle against the WW will be there why waste 2 seasons to bring almost the entire cast to WF, only to move them south to fight against the WW again?

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    30. mau,

      True, but GOT may be more similar to LOTR movies and for the same cinematic reasons: shouring of the shire doesn’t look well on the screen.

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    31. Inga,

      Yeah, but read my previous post. D&D spent 2 seasons to bring almost everyone to WF to fight the WW. Why do that, only to move everyone to the south again?

      And again, there is still no evidence that the WW are part of the KL’s battle. We saw extras playing the Army of the Dead in the North, but nothing so far in KL. It just started, so there is still time, but I’m not sure.

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    32. mau,

      So far we don’t have any evidence that you’re wrong in that thinking. I do wonder how the night shoots with the giant green screen fit in. Would it be for additional action that occurs outside the walls of Winterfell? Do they retreat from Winterfell and then mount an offensive later somewhere in the open country? Perhaps the AotD do not actually go to Winterfell and that filming was a battle of living while the green screen is the only battle with the AotD… *shrug* Then again, maybe they all do retreat to KL after failing further north and they just haven’t started filming the AotD arriving at KL.

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    33. It would be really lame if they have spent the entire series building up “the true threat” just to wrap the entire White Walker story by episode 3 of the final season. And they never even make it out of the North?

      I seriously hope not because I think that would just be awful.

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    34. Clob,

      A Robert and Lyanna as Jon’s parents didn’t make sense both narrativelly and thematically.

      Lyanna despised Robert who already had a bastard in the Vale. And both were betrothed not married. Robert wouldn’t have risked the Starks wrath sleeping with Lyanna out of wedlock.

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    35. Eonwe,

      Oh I know… Just saying that some messed up stuff happens in ASoIaF. 😛 It could have been and still had a “reasonable” explanation. Maybe something having to do with Robert being pissed because Lyanna ended up spurning him and he kidnapped and raped her and Rhaegar saved her which made Robert lie about everything. I don’t know…

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    36. Clob,
      There was some information back then that WF battle was was filmed in 3 locations. I don’t remeber where I read that.

      If Dany and Jon weren’t able to defeat the WW in the North, how will they do that in south, with weakend army and Cersei and Euron there? And why would the NK even let them leave the North alive if he is going to win at WF?

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    37. mau,

      It just… George said that this saga was his way of expressing himself against the genre tropes. That in other stories humanity would rally together to defeat it’s enemies. Instead he decided to put everyone fighting against each other for an iron chair, ignoring the threats north of the wall (ice) and east of Westeros (fire).

      So a season of Jon/Dany fighting first the undead evil guys and then fighting against the evil living guys is so… Cliché?

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    38. They were shooting that WF battle for 55 days. It has to have some big importance for the plot. You don’t shoot the biggest battle in history of television for nothing.

      And you don’t do the biggest battle in the show, just to have real climax in KL battle, which will be big as well, but from all we know it will me smaller in scale.

      There will be so much drama between characters in KL. They reported that Pilou is at KL set. Which means Euron is alive in E5. It makes sense that they will save Greyjoy family drama for the end, to add another emotional layer to KL’s battle. I think Euron is alive because he is the only character on Cersei’s side that can fight and talk.

      That’s another reason why Idon’t think that the WW will be part of KL battle. Sadly. It is much cleaner to concentrate at human drama only and not to put Army of the Dead there.

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    39. orange:
      It would be really lame if they have spent the entire series building up “the true threat” just to wrap the entire White Walker story by episode 3 of the final season. And they never even make it out of the North?

      I seriously hope not because I think that would just be awful.

      The thought of it does seem a little wrong. Although, if they’re fighting the AotD for 3+ episodes and some major characters fall along with significant casualties it may feel like an adequate climax. Then there’s just 2 or 2.5 episodes left to complete the final setting which wouldn’t be dull because it still includes dealing with Cersei. The NK and his army not making it at least as far as KL isn’t what most expect though is it.

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    40. Eonwe,

      What’s the alternative? If he really wanted to express himself against the genre tropes he shouldn’t put Army of the Dead in the story in the first place. It makes sense that many characters will put aside their differences and work together.

      Does it make sense for any character that will be in WF next season to put aside greater good and be selfish? Does it make sense for Jon to do that? Jaime? Tyrion? Daenerys? Arya?

      I mean it would even make sense for Roose Bolton and Tywin Lannister to fight at Dany and Jon’s side if they were alive.

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    41. If AOTD managed to reach KL, there’s no logical way everyone hasn’t already lost. They’ll have had half of Westeros fall to them by that point with millions of undead.

      Only logical outcome is they defeat the dead at WF, before they can reach the South.

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    42. Wasn’t filming going to last until June? There is also talk about Dark Phoenix delayed to 2019 because it needs extensive reshooting and Sophie couldn’t do it until September due to her schedule with Got.

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    43. Clob,

      Yeah, but it’s not like this season will have 10 or 15 episodes. If the NK is gone in E3 or E4, why that is so much different than if he is gone in E5?

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    44. BeardedOnion,

      Agree. And again, why would Dany and Jon be able to defeat the NK in the south if they weren’t able to do that in the North? It’s not like some fresh and new army is waiting for them there to help them. And even if there is new and fresh army waiting, Jon and Dany already have dragons and dragonglass at WF, and they have Sam and Bran already at WF, with all knowledge that they have to help them.

      New human army in the South wouldn’t change anything. They already have all characters and all tools at WF. There is nothing in the south that could help them stop the Army of the Dead.

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    45. Eonwe:
      BeardedOnion,

      Numbers in the AOTD don’t matter since they put last season the hint that they only need to kill the NK and then the zombie army is gone.

      Well if AOTD got past the North it implies the Starks and co got their asses kicked and their army either ravaged or destroyed completely. I fail to see how the NK can be stopped if he managed to crush the North and the coalition’s forces and drove them South.

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    46. mau:
      Clob,

      Yeah, but it’s not like this season will have 10 or 15 episodes. If the NK is gone in E3 or E4, why that is so much different than if he is gone in E5?

      My personal desire is that the show does not essentially end immediately following the climax. With additional seasons yet to come they could do such a thing and end with cliffhangers, which they can’t do this time. Two plus episodes if it were to still include resolving the issues between the living and setting the final positions doesn’t seem too long to me.

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    47. People forget how masterful Miguel is as a director and how much you can tell with 1 hour or 2.

      If I told you guys before S6 aired that the High Sparrow, ALL the Tyrells minus Olenna, Walder Frey, Kevan, Pycelle, Tommen, Bell lady, Lancel would all be killed, R and J is revealed, Jon is crowned king, Cersei is crowned queen when she started off a prisoner in her own home and Sam is introduced to the citadel all within 1 hour, within the same episode and it all flowed naturally and felt like it wasn’t rushed at all? Would you believe me?

      Give AOTD 2 or so episodes to conclude with Miguel at the helm and we’ll see what happens.

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    48. mau,

      There are many reasons to bring all the protagonist to Winterfell: some are necessary for the Jon’s true parentage revelation and the drama which should result from that. Others, namely, Jaime might be require there to settle issues with other protagonists (like Bran or Brienne) or to develop a bond with others (like Jon). If Jaime is supposed to kill Cersei to protect Jon, Jon shouldn’t be a stranger to him anymore.

      On the other hand, we can also ask what was the point of making the Night King airborn, if not to facilitate his attack on KL. It’s also in line with Cersei’s story: she has always suffered from the monsters of her own making and, although the NK is not exactly the monster of her own making, it’s pretty close: she’s counting on him to destroy her enemies, she’s helping him by refusing to join the living and nourishing plans to backstab Dany and Jon, she’s playing the role of a useful idiot. And there has been always a punishment for that in GOT.

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    49. mau: New human army in the South wouldn’t change anything. They already have all characters and all tools at WF. There is nothing in the south that could help them stop the Army of the Dead.

      Well, there is wildfire that could be useful, especially if Daenerys’ dragons are gone. Still, if they do go to KL before the NK is gone I’d say it’s simply a matter of fighting until they can’t fight anymore. If they have to retreat and the NK heads there then they HAVE to go there because if they can’t stop KL from becoming a city of undead they have zero chance.

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    50. BeardedOnion,

      Now that I mentioned numbers. Man this show was rubbed by Martin lack of mathematics skills.

      Season 1 Lannister host was 60000-70000 men. The Tyrell host went from 100000 men to the few we got in season 6-7. Mance’s host went from more than 100000 to few thousands by season six. The Bolton army that defeated Stannis seems bigger than that of the BoB. We don’t know how many forces can muster the Vale and the Iron born. Dorne was taken out thanks to season 5. Dany has 8000 unsullied whose numbers never go down like the inmortals. And then we were told that KL hosts one million souls.

      One million persons is crazy. In my twisted mind is the perfect bait for the NK.

      Am I the only one who’s asking were the hell are the 20000 men from the Golden Company?

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    51. I still think it’s very possible that the NK will split his army. Or, at least send his army of the dead to Winterfell while the NK himself attacks KL riding on Viserion. The NK could make the Golden Company his new AOTD if the other one gets wiped out at Winterfell.

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    52. BeardedOnion,

      And since the filming is much longer than before there is no way that the episodes won’t be longer. We just don’t know how long they will be. But if the first 3 episode are 80 minutes long like E7 of the last season, it will be enough.

      240 minutes at only one location (maybe few expostion scenes at KL in first 3 episodes, but that’s it) is a lot.

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    53. Clob: Well, there is wildfire that could be useful, especially if Daenerys’ dragons are gone.Still, if they do go to KL before the NK is gone I’d say it’s simply a matter of fighting until they can’t fight anymore.If they have to retreat and the NK heads there then they HAVE to go there because if they can’t stop KL from becoming a city of undead they have zero chance.

      If dragonglass, dragons, Melisandre, every valyrian steel that we know of, Bran and Sam fail in the Norh, I really don’t see what wildfire can do.

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    54. Filming time isn’t equal to screen time. In Jurassic Park the T-Rex total amount of her appearing is less than four minutes.

      Helm’s Deep took months of shooting. Then it became a 20 minutes battle in a three hour movie.

      Battle of the bastards was only a third of it’s episode.

      So those 55 nights of shooting won’t be one hour battle episode. And it looks like that would be episode 3, directed by Sapochnik. He directs also episode 5. Likely the one who is being filmed now.

      Filming a battle takes much more time than filming in a studio a bunch of actors speaking.

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    55. mau: If dragonglass, dragons, Melisandre, every valyrian steel that we know of, Bran and Sam fail in the Norh, I really don’t see what wildfire can do.

      If you read back you’ll see I’m not disagreeing with you in thinking that that war may be finished in The North. I’m just saying that IF it’s not and they fail, falling back to KL won’t be a strategic move but one of necessity. They either jump on ships and flee to Essos or fight for their lives and the lives of all the living in Westeros. Which do you think is more likely. When at KL they’ll use what they have which would include wildfire. That in the least will be able to torch the undead in large numbers.

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    56. Inga:
      mau,

      There are many reasons to bring all the protagonist to Winterfell: some are necessary for the Jon’s true parentage revelation and the drama which should result from that. Others, namely, Jaime might be require there to settle issues with other protagonists (like Bran or Brienne) or to develop a bond with others (like Jon). If Jaime is supposed to kill Cersei to protect Jon, Jon shouldn’t be a stranger to him anymore.

      Jaime could do these things in the south as well if he joins them. And Gendry, BwB, the Hound, all of them. Daenerys, Tyrion,… Why they brought everyone at WF if it just the first half of the battle against the WW?

      It would make more sense to write S7 in a way where Dany and Tyrion and rest will join Jon in S8 when he lose at WF. Than Jon and rest going to the south from WF would make sense, it would change something. Since Dany and her dragons would join him in the south.

      Or to have Sam leave Oldtown in S8 and bring some game-changing information in the south, when they need that.

      On the other hand, we can also ask what was the point of making the Night King airborn, if not to facilitate his attack on KL.

      I thought the same for a long time, but since there is still no evidence that they are part of the KL’s battle I changed my opinion.

      And it then became clear that all the elements that they need to defeat the NK are already at WF. D&D spent 2 seasons seting that up. Bran is there, dragons, dragonglass, valyrian still, Sam’s books from Citadel,… everything.

      Is there anything in the south that could help them? If they are not able to kill the NK with everything they have now, how will their defeated and weakened army do that in the south?

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    57. Eonwe:
      Filming time isn’t equal to screen time.

      True, but 10 or more months is still a lot more than in the past. It’s not just action. We will have 2 battles, but what with the rest? They spent a lot more than usual filming dialogue scenes as well, it seems.

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    58. OK, I was trying not to be too explicit but as follows:

      Before Watchers posted their article there was a leak of some set photos, the person – who very clearly had been on set – also gave some context of the scene being shot involving the two characters that Javi and Watchers reported were there and he/she also mentioned Melisandre was there (not reported by Javi or Watchers). The leaker also gave details of what happens in those scenes. Within a day or two of this Carice posted pictures of her on social media showing her on set, in costume and the set background (green screen and snow) which very much supported the leaker and what was being reported by Javi/WotW. This is the only spoiler I am aware of but it feels credible to me and means the Nights King is still around in episode 4 at least and the scene was likely either the end of the battle at Winterfell or during a retreat/escape but that’s speculation on my side. I didn’t want to post this as so far there is no “proof” Melisandre will return

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    59. mau:
      Mr Derp,

      So they filmed the biggest battle in the history of television for the NK’s trap, that won’t change anything in the plot?

      Yes, that’s exactly what they did. They were going to go with something else, but since you already seem to have seen all of season 8 and know everything that happens they decided to throw in a twist just for you 🙂

      In all seriousness, they haven’t filmed the KL battle yet, so do we really know which of the WF or KL battles will be the more expensive of the two? Besides, just because one is more expensive doesn’t necessarily mean anything plotwise.

      Also, who’s to say the NK couldn’t be part of the WF battle? He could be a part of it then escape and heads to KL the way I described.

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    60. BeardedOnion,
      mau,

      Oh, but Jon & Dany will defend the North! The darkness will flee. It’s just that afterwards, it will regroup and strike back. It might be a trope but it always works. Winterfell will be a mid-term victory, whereas KL will be the final stand with Cersei posing an additional threat. It lines up with many spoilers from the set, namely

      flaming swords at the battlefield, Jon having a pralay with Cersei, Dany’s army entering KL presumably peacefully

      . It also has a nice parallel with the battle of Minas Tirith in the LOTR, only there the useful idiot (Denethor) was dealt with easily, whereas in case of GOT dealing with the useful idiot (Cersei) may turn into the main twist.

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    61. I think it’s more likely Episodes 1-4 in the North and 5-6 more focused in the South. Or at least episode four will see the survivors heading south.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Speculation from my side but I thought I read somewhere the Unsullied will fill at the same site as Battle of the Bastards was filmed if so I was of the belief that the Unsullied and Dothraki will go out into the open field, lose and a stand off would follow at Winterfell.

        Quote  Reply

    63. mau,

      That’s the key. A lot of people is so focused on those 55 nights that they forgot that they started filming in October and it’s expected to end in July. Thay’re already shooting here in Sevilla and we know little of it. And the filming will last until the 18. And then there would be between one and two months of shooting left. We don’t know what they filmed in Dubrovnik. We don’t know how that 55 night’s battle is gonna end like.

      I know nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Mr Derp,
      Inga,

      If in the next weeks there is not a single extra who plays memeber of the WW’s army on KL’s set, I think it will be safe to assume that they were defeated in E3 or E4.

      We will see.

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    65. Jon Snowed,

      Interesting. There was some user who posted several pics of that 55 nights battle and them told that:

      Melissandre will use her powers against the NK and lose. And that Jaime would die in Brienne’s arms. He said this would happen in episode 4 (directed by Nutter).

      Is the HBO pulling an Infinity War move?

        Quote  Reply

    66. mau:
      Mr Derp,
      Inga,

      If in the next weeks there is not a single extra who plays memeber of the WW’s army on KL’s set, I think it will be safe toassume that they were defeated in E3 or E4.

      We will see.

      Indeed we will. It’s also possible the the AOTD will be wiped out in the North, but the NK will be the only one to escape and head for KL. If the NK is the only one left then there would be no need for extras

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    67. Mr Derp,

      You never give up, do you? 😀

      That won’t happen. To have only the NK fight against everyone, I mean please.

      We still don’t know who will fight at KL, we will find out soon, but I thought we were having a more serious talk.

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    68. Pigeon,

      Lol, I think I see Syrio Forel in there somewhere dressed as a merman with a baby bump…

      oh, and he’s a secret Targaryen too 😉

        Quote  Reply

    69. Pigeon: I was able to zoom in a bit…

      Hah! That bit always makes me chuckle. Sometimes during a serious siege scene (or any guard scene, like the one at WF with Arya in S7), I’ll start giggling for no reason. MP has ruined my ability to focus on the story at hand….too distracted by the possibility of flesh wounds, verbal tirades and catapulted cows.

        Quote  Reply

    70. mau,

      Apparently not everything. First of all, they really need to bound together – all the living including the Lannisters. Secondly, they might need a sacrifice – at least a figurative one. The whole theme of sacrificing one innocent life to save the many hasn’t been played again and again just to destroy Stannis character (or Robert’s to that matter). What if our beloved protagonists will be confronted with a similar dilemma?

      And in general, if the NK done in Ep3, what’s the point of attacking Sersei or parlaying with her or whatever? Let her be and let her rot, especially considering that attacking KL is such a no-no. Jon & Danny can live happily in the North: they can man Moat Cailin with their remaining forces (it won’t take much) and wait till the good citizens of KL overthrow Cersei or whatever. Something big has to happen to bring them to KL, and the NK’s attack is the best and probably the only legit reason for them to go there.
      And we even have a wague evidence from the show itself, namely, Bran’s vision of a dragon over KL and the set they bilt represent exatly the same area over which the dragon was seen (you can see the same landmarks like the dome and the belltower and the whole layout is approximately the same). So, I assume we’ll get the dragon shadow from Bran’s vision and then the dragon will go down and attack the area. Can it be Dany’s or Jon’s dragon? Apparently not: if for whatever reason they decide to unleash their dragons on KL, they would be unleashing them on the Red Keep, not on an urban block full of innocent civillians.

      And the lack of evidence of the NK’s attack on KL is just SO FAR (although we may see little with all those security measures). Anyway, they still have 2 to 4 months of filming. A LOT may happen during that.

        Quote  Reply

    71. mau:
      Mr Derp,

      You never give up, do you? 😀

      That won’t happen. To have only the NK fight against everyone, I mean please.

      We still don’t know who will fight at KL, we will find out soon,but I thought we were having a more serious talk.

      He was obviously suggesting that the NK would raise a new army, not fight by himself. 😛

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    72. Inga:
      BeardedOnion,

      all of the protagonists survive and live happily ever after.

      Hi Inga *waving* that bit of your quote I’ve copied has to be the unlikeliest outcome possible. I know I’ve taken it out of context and you’re not suggesting it will happen, but it’d be so far from what everyone’s expecting I’m entertaining myself imagining people’s shocked reactions to it. And they though the Red Wedding was mind blowing! 😉

        Quote  Reply

    73. Inga,

      Since there is some evidence that the Golden Company will atack WF just before the NK, I think that’s the reason why they will turn to Cersei.

      We shouldn’t forget that Dany, Jon and Tyrion wanted truce from Cersei. Not her armies. Cersei promised them armies, yes, but that was a bonus. So if she doesn’t attack them while they deal with the NK, that means that Cersei kept her promise. She respected the truce! And if Cersei respects the truce there is no reason for Dany and Jon to want to move their exhausted and tired army agianst Cersei just after they defeated the NK. There will be time for that in the future when they recover. But if Cersei attacks them just before the AOTD, it proves that they have to remove her, that she won’t respect any truce, even for a time, they have to move against her immediately.

      Also, we know that there will be even bigger Qyburn’s scorpions at the wall of KL in S8. Who put them there? Dany? To fight Viserion? If she wanted to fight a dragon, she has her 2 dragons, she wouldn’t use Qyburn’s weapon. So, Cersei put them there. For whom? Dany probably.

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    74. Clob,

      What’s the point of that? As I said they have all tools and characters that they need already at WF. If D&D wanted to do battle against the WW in multiple parts, they wouldn’t put everything they need in WF, IMO.

      But we will see.

        Quote  Reply

    75. mau,
      I’m still not quite sure who or what you’re debating. 😛 I don’t really see anyone completely disagreeing with you, but rather just offering suggestions for “what ifs” and possible scenarios why the fight against the NK might not be finished in The North, not that any of it WILL happen. Since you nor anyone know for sure I think there are some reasonable scenarios being tossed around that we can’t automatically squash.

      Having “all the tools” and failing doesn’t mean they can’t win later without them after learning something important or doing the right thing. A sports team may have all the tools and win easily but also lose to an underdog with one mistake or in one weakness found by the opponent.

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    76. Mr Derp,
      mau,

      BTW, I had the same thought as Mr Derp and it’s not a joke. The NK is extremely powerful, he killed a dragon singlehandedly, so he may attack KL singlhadedly, too. Especially, if he is deperate.

      However, the gate was built breached for a reason and that implies that the NK will bring some wightified force along with him. But that doesn’t mean that we’ll get evidence with the current quality of photos. Where are these men with superlenses when we need them? 🙂

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    77. mau,

      I haven’t forgot that skirmish at the gate we assumed to be the Lannister or GC attack on WF. However, it can be a part of the battle, too. And even if it was what it seemed, there is no eveidence that this attack will happen BEFORE the AOTD attack.

      In gerneral, I don’t see how they could squeeze the GC attack before the AOTD attack. The Wall is already breached and the NK is on his way to WF, so are Jon and Dany who plan to arrive in a fortnight. Meanwhile, Euron should go to Braavos, pick the money, go to where the GC is stationed, pick them, arrive to KL, get new orders from Cersei and only then go to WF. No way, he can arrive there before the AOTD.

      Moreover, it makes no sense for Cersei: if she sent the GC to the North immediately, it would be immediately destroyed either by Dany’s army or by the AOTD. However, if Jon wins the battle against the AOTD and then goes to help KL with what’s left of his forces (based on Bran’s intel, I assume), Cersei may very well send the GC to destroy the defenseless WF. She may not ever believe that the NK is really posing a threat to KL – she’ll take Jon’s warnings as a ruse and think that he and Dany are simply trying to do the same thing Tywin did during the Robert’s Rebellion, namely, to sack the city under pretence of providing help. So, she “won’t be a fool”, she’ll “see them through”, and she’ll “outsmart them” by setting a trap with wildfire in KL and simultaneously sending Euron and the GC to destroy WF. IMO, that would be very Cersei-like and reasonable than sending the GC inbetween the Dothraki and the AOTD.

      Lulus Mum,

      Hi, waving, too.

        Quote  Reply

    78. mau:
      There is still no evidence that the NK and his army will go south, or be part of this battle.

      So far, it seems they will be stoped in the North.

      Then what’s the point of having an series arc (the WW story began in season 1 till the last season) by having it stopped halfway through the last season. Why having the big cliffhanger of last season. if the army of the dead will be stopped in episode 3, it will be bad writing for many reasons:
      1. Why focus season after season that the WW are the overall arc and important by having them defeated halfway through the last season.
      2. Having the NK defeated in the first big battle with the living will be very dull, the most dangerous creature in the story will be defeated first try and in 3 episodes? Would be the same if Harry Potter Voldemort would have been defeated in book 6 and the last book would have been about defeating Bellatrix. It wouldn’t make sense at all.
      3. Why would Jon and Dany even try to be peaceful with Cercei if the NK would be defeated.

      And are people forgetting the house of the Undying scenes. It looks (maybe not) that that’s a big hint that the NK will be in KL at the end.

      I think it’s more logical that the north will try to take shelter in KL because the NK will be coming. And that Cercei lures them in with her own plan.

      Eonwe:
      BeardedOnion,

      Numbers in the AOTD don’t matter since they put last season the hint that they only need to kill the NK and then the zombie army is gone.

      No they didn’t made that clear. Jon even said that Beric didn’t understand. Maybe what he didn’t understand is if the NK is defeated, another WW will take the NK place. Probably it’s true, if the NK falls everybody falls but it could be different.

      mau:
      Jon Snowed,

      Yeah I know. But they will shoot thisKL battle soon. If there are no extras to play members of the Army of the Dead, it is safe to assume that the NK is gone.

      And since it seems that the northern battle will be bigger in scale than KL’s battle, it doesn’t make much sense that the NK will be defeated in smaller battle.

      The battle at winterfell was shot in almost 2 months. We just started the KL battle. The extra’s for the army of the dead could be coming later. Maybe a month.

      And that the battle of KL will be bigger (production wise) doesn’t mean he will be defeated there. I personally thing the NK will not be defeated by means of battle, in fact I think he will be defeated in episode 6 (Which will not be a big battle episode as far as we know because D&D are directing it), and that it will be something more magical. Like the way he was created. Maybe Bran is connected to it somehow. And Maybe the NK will not get to KL (maybe he has another destination).

      “Yeah, but read my previous post. D&D spent 2 seasons to bring almost everyone to WF to fight the WW. Why do that, only to move everyone to the south again?” Why spending 7 seasons building up the biggest treat Westeros has ever seen. Why having the dragon pit scene if the WW not coming south. I think the reason everyone is getting north is because the NK will kill half of those characters there.

      mau:
      Clob,
      There was some information back then that WF battle was was filmed in 3 locations. I don’t remeber where I read that.

      If Dany and Jon weren’t able to defeat the WW in the North, how will they do that in south, with weakend army and Cersei and Euron there? And why would the NK even let them leave the North alive if he is going to win at WF?

      Because in the south they have the help of Cercei and Qyburn. Even if Cercei will backstab them, we can assume she has some preperations ready for the NK and his army. Wildfire. Dragon scorpions. Qyburn was very interesting in the hand. He will have something that will be playing a part. I think those things has a bigger effect against the NK than Jon with his men (who will turn wights once dead) Dany has dragons but the NK can kill them easily. Would even be very GRRM if something science will be the end of magic.

      orange: Yeah, but read my previous post. D&D spent 2 seasons to bring almost everyone to WF to fight the WW. Why do that, only to move everyone to the south again?

      This. If they are defeated first try, why all the build up for 7 seasons that they are the big enemie.

      The rest i will post in another post. Many comments to reply to.

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    79. BeardedOnion: Well if AOTD got past the North it implies the Starks and co got their asses kicked and their army either ravaged or destroyed completely. I fail to see how the NK can be stopped if he managed to crush the North and the coalition’s forces and drove them South.

      Cercei, see post above. Qyburn has a plan. why include that scene where Qyburn asked to have that hand if he’s not going to use it against the NK

      And who said that they didn’t already filmed some scenes of the big battle at KL. Remember that one of the first scenes they shot was in KL where we assume there was a dragon flying and attacking the street of KL Maybe this is the NK in episode 5.

      And what if they said episode 3 will be the biggest battle but in fact it will be 5?

      They could film in studio. They could even film some KL battle scenes and pretend it was for the WF battle. We can assume D&D have some tools up their sleeves, especially after the leaks of last season.

      ps. A dutch GoT newssite said that every episode of season 8 will be 2 hours long. I think they were speculating but they wrote it like it was a fact. When can we expect HBO to tell us how long the episodes are?

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    80. Jon Snowed:
      I think it’s more likely Episodes 1-4 in the North and 5-6 more focused in the South.Or at least episode four will see the survivors heading south.

      Agreed. I think it’s quite possible that episodes 1-4 will deal with the whitewalker threat (meaning over half the season will be largely focused on that storyline) while the surviving members of dany and jon’s forces will have to focus on KL in episodes 5-6. Anyone else think there may be a power struggle involving Cercei, Euron, Qyburn, and the Golden Company in the south before the remainder of Jon and Dany’s forces even head there? I was reading up on the Golden Company online and it seems that even though they’re mercenaries they actually have deep ties to the Targaryen/Blackfyre dynasty. It would be late to introduce the Blackfyre angle into the series, but it may serve as a counterpoint during the first four episodes to show that struggle in KL while those in the north are dealing with the whitewalkers. What storyline do others think will be shown about KL during the first four episodes?

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    81. Doesn’t filming end in June? There were rumours it could go to July but nothing to really confirm that.

      I am anticipating filming to wrap in June and a teaser trailer in July/August.

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    82. krupke: What storyline do others think will be shown about KL during the first four episodes?

      That’s the question. They’ll have to be creative for most to really care what’s going on there when all of the expected action will be north. How many scenes could they possibly do consisting of just Cersei bitching at Qyburn? You’d think she’d continue preparing defenses that Jaime started before the meeting at the Dragonpit. That’s not exciting to watch for long without any other main characters there. Does Bronn actually take off as expected?

      When it comes to Euron one plan of action people may think probable is that she immediately sends him, his men and the GC after Jaime and to attack Winterfell. I have to assume that she’s going to be extra pissed off now that he abandoned her. If that happens we’re again seemingly left with nothing interesting going on in KL.

      Maybe you are thinking on the right path and there will be quite a bit more/lengthier interaction between Cersei, Euron, and leader of the GC. Who knows… maybe she does break down without Jaime and weds Euron…

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    83. BeardedOnion: I never said it would be successful.

      It would indeed break Cersei’s character if she simply surrendered. There will be a major battle, which is why I believe this isn’t unsullied soldiers peacefully occupying the city.

      Neither Cersei nor Dany will accept anything other than being the ruler, despite the fact that neither will be ruling the 7K by the end.

      If the 7K exists as a political entity by the end and Dany is alive she is ruling. Jon might be the rightful heir, but his claim rests on a diary found by his best friend, the visions of his brother and possible testimony by one his vassals-all people with vested interest in lying to put him on the throne. Their dubious testimony vs 20+ years the entire realm knowing him as Ned’s bastard. If Young Griff whose less ridiculous story had Rhaegar’s best friend vouching for him still thought he needed Dany (the last known Targaryen) to recognize him, then what prayer does Jon have? Any succession issues will be moot if they marry which is where the story is headed. But if Dany lives to the end and 7K stays intact, she rules probably with Jon after she recognizes him. No way Jon ascends those steps as a Targaryen on his own, this is GOT his story is too fantastic to pass the smell test.

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    84. What I think will happen:
      Episode 1. Danny and Jon are on the move. They visite white harbor. And we see a part of their journey north. In winterfell bran tells Sansa and Arya what he saw. The wall is breached. Sansa share this news with Northern lords. They are more concerned about Jon bending the knee for Danny than this treat. Bran and Sam discuss what they should do with the news of Jon. Jon arrive at winterfell. The night king takes over a northern castle. (cold opening). Cercei makes preparations if Dany or the dead will ever invade Kingslanding. The golden company will meet with cercei.

      Episode 2: Jon learn about his past. People riot because of Dany. Starks with dany interactions. Castle black will fall. Theon will attack pyke and rescue his sister. Maybe euron will flee. Qyburn experiments with the dead arm will have a result.

      Episode 3: the battle in the north. Maybe we get one scene with cercei. Night king wins. Many deaths. Bloodbath.

      Episode 4: people flee South. With lots of character moments. We will see different sides of characters because of what happen in winterfell. Bran digs in the past and finds something that could lead to the defeat of the night king. But they need help from cercei. Cercei leads them into a trap. (not executed yet only the audience knows because of a scene before with her and qyburn)

      Episode 5: we will see the plan of cercei playing out. If the night king doesn’t attack he will be defeated at the gods eye in episode 6.

      Episode 6: the defeat of cercei first. Then the night kings. How that plays out we will see.

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    85. I’m sticking with my speculation that NK sends a splinter force to attack WF and keep Team Targ occupied long enough while his main army marches south. (Callback to Robb’s strategy against Tywin and Jaime’s against Tyrells.)

      To me, the set-up is obvious: With 1,000,000 virtually defenseless people crammed into King’s Landing, the allure to the NK of exponentially increasing his AotD to invincible numbers will be juxtaposed with Jon’s “shield that guards the realms of men” philosophy, i.e., to save the people regardless of their past enmities – just like he did with the Free Folk at Hardhome.

      Either before that (e.g., to raid the WF pantry) or because of that, weasel Northerners (yes, I’m looking at you Lord Glover) will revolt and attack WF. Of course, because it’s GoT, in the middle of the Northerners’ insurrection, with fires burning inside WF, Ol’ Blue Eyes or some of his WW lieutenants will probably show up and join the party – and wighten the Northerners and any of its defenders unfortunate enough to be outside the walls of WF.

      Then Jon has to convince the survivors that they must head south and defend the capitol – or 1 million soldiers will be added to the Army of the Dead, just as he’d forewarned Cersei in the dragonpit in S7e7.

      That’s my tinfoil story and I’m sticking to it. 👨‍🚀🤖For now…

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    86. Kevin1989: Castle black will fall.

      There’s no reason for the NK to go 150 miles in the wrong direction to attack Castle Black that only contains a couple dozen men anymore. IF we see Castle Black again it will probably just be the arrival of Tormund and Beric on top of the Wall to warn everybody, try to send a raven and ride for Winterfell themselves. Remember that nobody knows yet that the Wall has been breached nor that the NK has animated Viserion except for Tormund and Beric.

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    87. Clob,

      I agree. The only reason for NK to go to CB would be for comic relief:

      Acting Lord Commander Edd: “Oh. F*ck me.”

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    88. Jon Snowed,
      That sounds plausible. I’m thinking that HBO is focusing on Westworld at the moment, but once the current season is over (sometime in June), the GoT hype machine will likely start to slowly build up.

      Though I wonder if they’ll start off with official photo stills taken during filming like they’ve done the past few seasons before releasing the first teaser..

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    89. I don’t get what the big deal about the Army of the Dead being defeated in The North would be.

      The First Men and the Children managed to defeat them with just dragonglass weapons.

      Jon and Dany have 100,000 men, dragons, Bran, Valyrian steel and a cache of dragonglass weapons. They’re ready for the Army of the Dead, thanks to The Wall holding up the Night King’s progress long enough for them to prepare.

      Who is there left in the south who we care about anyway? So what if we get a montage of the Night King attacking Riverrun or the Eyrie or Highgarden? And the Night King is eventually defeated at King’s Landing instead of Winterfell? I don’t really see what the big difference is. Lots of people will die and there will be a ton of drama and action either way.

      By the way, GRRM has written 5 of an intended 7 books and the War for the Dawn hasn’t even begun yet. And the final novel is preliminarily titled A Dream of Spring. What makes anybody think that GRRM is going to depict some epic, expansive, continent-wide, years long conflict between the Westerosi and the Others?

      Everything is already set up for the Night King to be dealt with sooner rather than later. They’ve established the ‘destroy the mothership’ plot device. They’ve established that the Westerosi don’t have enough food to survive a long winter. The Night King has a dragon, which prevents the Westerosi just holding up in their castles.

      I’m cool if they make it south. I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. But them being defeated in The North really shouldn’t be as big a deal as some people fear.

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    90. Clob: There’s no reason for the NK to go 150 miles in the wrong direction to attack Castle Black that only contains a couple dozen men anymore.IF we see Castle Black again it will probably just be the arrival of Tormund and Beric on top of the Wall to warn everybody, try to send a raven and ride for Winterfell themselves.Remember that nobody knows yet that the Wall has been breached nor that the NK has animated Viserion except for Tormund and Beric.

      like others, I assumed the AotD would swarm directly south to hit Last Hearth, picking up soldiers from whatever villages/farms are in their path. The possibility of the AotD splintering, with a group heading West as well would require a high degree of autonomy of the NK’s minion whitewalkers and for the NK to presume he has enough wights to split forces…. I wonder if extended interaction between the NK and his underlings will be shown next season, at least enough to see how much of a hive mind the AotD is….

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    91. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      “They’ve established the ‘destroy the mothership’ plot device…”
      ____________________
      Though that convenient but cheesy scene in S7e6 had all the wights but one deactivate and drop dead (again) when their WW squad leader got pulverized by VS, and Beric suggested that taking out the NK would destroy the whole AotD, I sure hope GoT isn’t going to resort to that tired old cliched “destroy the mothership” plot device.

      It could have and should have been set up in the WW & wight attack on 3ER cave in S6 and WW & wight attack on Hardhome in S5. It wasn’t.

      It’s been (over-) used so many times in sci-fi flicks. If GoT falls back on it, then the show will justifiably be accused (in GRRM’s words) of “pulling a Lost.

      There’s got to be more to it. However, if that’s really the key to defeating the AotD, then they may as well have Arya sneak in and do a water dance spin move and slice NK’s throat with her VS dagger; or have Sandor pelt him with dragonglass footballs from 100 yards away.

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    92. Coming back to the photos, I’m perhaps mistaken.. but weren’t the Lannister banners draped on the outside of the city walls? I don’t remember them hanging from the inner walls, except on the Red Keep facade.

      I’m guessing they’re filming all the short, close up sequences before the big action set pieces are tackled.

      What I want to know is what’s happening with the ballistas? Those latest models look bloody heavy, I’m not so sure they’ll be able to rest on those platforms, and have space to be rotated by stuntmen..
      It all seems fairly risky.

      I wonder if they’ll be used on the ground with greenscreen and GCI’d in post production?

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    93. The more I read some of the comments, the more I’ve resigned myself to the fact the AOTD will be defeated in the North. I know that’s gonna p*** off a lot of people (and I really hoped we’d see them sweep the 7Ks to devastating effect), but it all kind of makes sense, give the arsenal that Jon and Dany have.

      Remember that the North is larger than the other 6ks combined, so we’ll still see plenty of death and destruction.

      kevin1989,

      “I personally thing the NK will not be defeated by means of battle, in fact I think he will be defeated in episode 6 (Which will not be a big battle episode as far as we know because D&D are directing it), and that it will be something more magical. Like the way he was created. Maybe Bran is connected to it somehow. And Maybe the NK will not get to KL (maybe he has another destination).”

      I read an excellent theory that the NK will be defeated by burning him at the weirwood with dragonflame, effectively wiping out the remnants of the Old Gods.

      I can picture a team effort, with Brans warging, Mels powers, hell- maybe throw in a bit of kingsblood sacrifice (Dany or her child anyone?) for good measure and you have a cocktail of twists that’ll ramp up the drama (and may well provide this controversial ending we’ve heard so much about).

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    94. Apollo: Coming back to the photos, I’m perhaps mistaken.. but weren’t the Lannister banners draped on the outside of the city walls? I don’t remember them hanging from the inner walls, except on the Red Keep facade.

      The vertical banners you mention are on the outside, yes. I was referring to the horizontal flags on a pole. I link to them on the article. Here they are.

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    95. Apollo,

      “The more I read some of the comments, the more I’ve resigned myself to the fact the AOTD will be defeated in the North. I know that’s gonna p*** off a lot of people (and I really hoped we’d see them sweep the 7Ks to devastating effect), but it all kind of makes sense, give the arsenal that Jon and Dany have.

      Remember that the North is larger than the other 6ks combined, so we’ll still see plenty of death and destruction.”
      _______________________

      1. Let’s not underestimate NK. He’s no dummy. By my reckoning, his record against humankind is 3-0-1. (Fist of the First Men? Decisive win for WW. Hardhome? Blowout victory for WW. Frozen Lake? NK got himself a dragon and breached the Wall = game-changing triumph. To be charitable we can call the attack on 3ER cave a draw only because Bran got away, even though it cost the lives of Hodor, Summer, Leaf, and 3ER.)

      2. NK’s going to be aware that Team Targ @ WF is armed to the teeth with dragonglass, VS weapons, and a ninja assassin warrior princess. And probably two dragons. Why not bypass WF? (S8e1: NK and AotD approach WF, but then NK stops and telepathically tells his troops: “On second though, let’s not go to Winterfell. ‘Tis a silly place.”)

      3. Most important, as a matter of population density and geography, it’d make sense to head to KL and shoot fish in a barrel. It’d be like a WW invasion if they could form an ice bridge to cross from Siberia to the U.S. Would they trudge around for months in Alaska, picking off a few humans here and there? Or head straight to a population center like San Francisco?

      Yes, the North is larger than the other six kingdoms combined. However, its population density is comparable to that of Alaska, roughly 1-2 people per square mile.
      I did rough estimates a while back, based on Jon Snow’s discussion with Tyrion in S7e7 about the population of KL vs. the population of the entire North; and the square mileage of the North based on Roose Bolton’s description to Ramsay of the dimensions of the North (in the scene when Roose informed Ramsay he’d been legitimized). Alaska’s population density corresponds roughly to the GoT North; San Francisco’s population density corresponds roughly to GoT King’s Landing.
      I’ve got to figure NK will make a beeline to the 1,000,000 unwitting recruits packed into KL, rather than waste time wandering around the desolate North, or waste (dead)man power against armed and ready fighting forces at WF.

      Then again, LF suddenly turned into a moron in S7, so it’s not out of the question that NK becomes an idiot in S8.

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    96. Apollo:
      The more I read some of the comments, the more I’ve resigned myself to the fact the AOTD will be defeated in the North. I know that’s gonna p***off a lot of people (and I really hoped we’d see them sweep the 7Ks to devastating effect), but it all kind of makes sense, give the arsenal that Jon and Dany have.
      ~snip

      Well Vladimir Furdik was filming in Belfast this week. Though we’ve got no idea whether he filmed as the NK or if he was doing stunt work (not having to do with the WWs)

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    97. Apollo,

      “I can picture a team effort, with Brans warging, Mels powers, hell- maybe throw in a bit of kingsblood sacrifice (Dany or her child anyone?) for good measure and you have a cocktail of twists that’ll ramp up the drama (and may well provide this controversial ending we’ve heard so much about).”
      _________________

      That sure would be controversial! Though I loath baby drama, you may very well be right about a kingsblood sacrifice. If so, consider the other alternative: Cersei’s spawn, Baby Tyvek Lannister.

      It was never made explicitly clear whether it was Cersei or Joffrey who ordered Slynt to proceed with the Baratheon Bastard Eradication Program, was it? (I thought it was Joffrey.) Tyrion was troubled by, and exiled Slynt to the NW because of, Slynt’s murder of King Robert’s bastard baby. Sacrificing Queen Cersei’s bastard baby might very well “bookend” that S1 atrocity, and take from Cersei all she holds dear.

      #NoBabyDrama

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    98. Clob: There’s no reason for the NK to go 150 miles in the wrong direction to attack Castle Black that only contains a couple dozen men anymore.IF we see Castle Black again it will probably just be the arrival of Tormund and Beric on top of the Wall to warn everybody, try to send a raven and ride for Winterfell themselves.Remember that nobody knows yet that the Wall has been breached nor that the NK has animated Viserion except for Tormund and Beric.

      He doesn’t need to go himself. Castle black only contains around 50/100 men. He only need to send a couple of 100 wights with 1 WW soldier. And Castle black will fall. Their defense is to the north, not the south. The battle will be over in minutes with only a fraction of the NK army. And if the NK and WW are smart enough, they attack at night when half of Castle black is a sleep.

      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      The problem with that is not the place where they defeated, but the pacing of the story. If our heroes defeat the WW in first try, it would feel dull because we have been told season after season that they are the biggest treat westeros (not only the north but westeros) has ever seen. The biggest treat Westeros has ever seen defeated first try, that doesn’t sound really as a big treat. The WW need to win one big battle (not some skirmish castle take over where nobody would care what happened to those people, we need WF to lose against the NK because it’s the only defeat that we will care about)

      And think about the news that we got:
      – Winterfell will be burned to the ground, I think we can assume that’s because our heroes will in fact lose.
      – And one of the first scenes filmed (and we can assume it’s the last episode or episode 5) was a scene in the streets of Kingslanding. Where fire was blasted on the streets with a lot of extras. This can mean 3 things:
      1. The NK is there with Vyserion, and Vyserion is killing people on the streets.
      2. At least the army of the dead is there, and Jon or Dany (We can assume they’re the only 2 which can fly a dragon) is burning the army of the dead (to dead)
      3. Or 3 if the army of the dead and the NK are defeated the only option left is those are people in the streets (army defeated right?) and Jon or Dany are burning those people alive. The only way I imaging this will happen is if Dany is infact turning evil (or Jon)

      So which of these 3 is the most logical. I’m going with one of the first 2 options.

      Ten Bears,

      Didn’t Jon tell him that Beric doesn’t understand it. There’s more to it than just killing the mothership.

      Apollo,
      Something like that I have in mind myself. Somehow I’m drawn to that the NK is heading to the God’s Eye. Maybe he even let himself be killed, we don’t really know what he wants.

      Ten Bears,

      1. What if he wanted Bran to get away. Maybe he needs Bran.
      2. Maybe he will have a good look at Cercei and thinks: I’m not needed here, this place is already doomed. Let her take care of my army.
      3.

      Jay Targ: Well Vladimir Furdik was filming in Belfast this week.Though we’ve got no idea whether he filmed as the NK or if he was doing stunt work (not having to do with the WWs)

      The only thing we need to look out for if he’s working with D&D. If they are shooting while he’s heavily working we know he will be alive till the end.

      BeardedOnion:
      No way Tyrion and Jaime will be cool with using a pregnant Cersei as a sacrifice.

      Maybe they wait till she delivers. I can see it totally in front of me. Cercei in labor at the Eyrie.
      Robin: Sansa, can we made the Mad Woman fly?
      Sansa: Robin you know we need to wait till the baby comes.
      Once she delivers
      Sansa: Robin open the moondoor.

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    99. Ten Bears,

      Me too! I’d rather just know that there was filming of battles between Blobs* without knowing who they are. * I forget who came up with this apt description. Was it Pigeon?

      I think Pigeon used it first, I made the pun, and then Pigeon made it a thing!

      BeardedOnion,

      I can’t see either Sansa or Arya being the ones to ultimately destroy Cersei. I believe they will both play a big role in the final arc involving her but I suspect they will put revenge behind them and move on, D&D and GRRM have made it very very clear that revenge is no good, it’s selfish and only leads to more misery, hate and in time, your death. It’s one of the biggest themes and to have Arya killing her would be both predictable and hurts that overall theme. Same with Sansa and Arya having her tortured to death. D&D have constantly told us that we should be worried about the path Arya is on too.

      I doubt they’ll say that now that she rejected it at the Crossroads. Unless Cersei’s orders get a Stark killed, I doubt Arya would act alone from vengeance now. Though Sansa might want to…with her Cersei’s her very very personal enemy, as was Ramsay. Cersei and Ramsay are the torturing types. The Stark sisters have doled out poetic deaths, but quick ones. My preference is for Jaime to kill Cersei, but he may well die in the North against the Others and die in Brienne’s arms. If not him, then Arya. But it would be a military objective rather than vengeance that takes her to the Red Keep. I speculate that the Northern Alliance will occupy Kings Landing (possibly Unsullied troops in the photo may be an indication), but the Red Keep will be well manned, armed, provisioned, and nigh-impregnable. It would be like Cersei to hole up there, either awaiting help from Euron or the Golden Company or just paranoiacally refusing to surrender. Someone of Arya’s skills, especially with Sandor, would be optimal for such a mission.

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    100. Let’s recall that the NK does not have the standard military objectives that, say, Stannis had. The NK need neither take all of the ground, or even just important cities. He brings the winter with him; all he has to do is keep moving south. Once all Westeros is covered in deep snow, the human population will eventually starve. A guy who can wait 8,000 years (!) can afford a few more months.

      “Destroy the mothership” is indeed an old trope, one which long predates science fiction. It works really well in a visual story like GoT. The writers can crank the melodrama up to 11 by having humanity almost about to succumb when the NK gets unmade, “and they all fall down.”

      It’s dramatically possible to have the NK unmade in the first several episodes. Recall that greyscale was a terrifying mortal peril until Sam the Smoother used a pair of tongs, his Night’s Watch pocketknife, and a refreshingly light olive oil dressing to REMOVE it.

      (Having the NK unmade early sets up the final conflict in line with what we’ve seen all along: we humans are our own worst enemy.)

      I repeat my idea that Sam, accompanied by No One in particular, will remove the shard of obsidian from the body of the NK, revealing the First Man inside. The NK will be distracted by a green-seer battle with Bran, as Bran shows the NK visions of his life as a First Man. “Just give up, friend, and you can resume your life.”

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    101. Roshan,

      or perhaps the history repeat itself, Jaime arrives at Kings Landing with entire Lannister army claiming that they have come to help Cersei and once She orders to open the gates, Jaime and his army conquer the city In Queen Daenerys name.

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