HBO’s Yearender video brings new Game of Thrones images!

Daenerys in season 6

HBO released their annual Yearender video tonight, featuring as usual the highlights of the year finishing up and the great HBO programming in the year to come. The 2015 Yearender includes, along with season 5 footage from the show, a few new shots from season 6 to enjoy.

The complete video:


In addition to the image of Daenerys up above, we have these new shots of Ramsay, and Cersei hugging Tommen.

Ramsay s6

Cersei s6

HBO has wisely avoided placing any overly spoiler-ish in the Yearender. The shot of Daenerys looks to be from not long after we saw her last, after her landing in the season 5 finale. Ramsay is saddled up with Bolton banners flying in his image, while Cersei clings to her last child in the final GoT shot. Her hair is still very short, since it was shorn just before the Walk,  but it’s growing.

It’s exciting to get these new images- between this, the teaser and the poster, it’s making me anxious for more instead of sated!

318 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I had a giggle at the Cersei/Scientology building clip being back to back. Was that intentionally trying to conjure up thoughts of the faith militant vs the Queen Regent?

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    2. Squeeeee!!!!

      As much as I want that little troll dead, I gotta say, Ramsay looks epic. Hopefully he’s riding to his doom.

      And before I start freaking out, that shot of a dragon at :32 is not from GoT, right??

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    3. BunBunStark,

      No. That’s Smaug.

      And everyone- remember to cover spoilers if you’re discussing things from the books that we haven’t seen or discussing filming spoilers. Thanks!

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    4. To jump into the minutiae, have we seen Ramsay in that fur coat before?

      I associate furs more with his father. If Ramsay hasn’t worn it before, wouldn’t that lead credence to the idea that Bolton Sr. doesn’t survive to direct the battle of the six armies?

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    5. Sean C.:
      The passage of time on the show being something perennially debated, I’ll be mildly interested to see how Cersei’s hair is handled over the season.

      To be honest, ever since Ned failed to grow a longer beard in the black cells, I’ve just kind of assumed everyone has magic hair. 😉

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    6. Felt Pelt:
      To jump into the minutiae, have we seen Ramsay in that fur coat before?

      The only time I can think of Ramsay wearing such a heavy fur coat was when he & Sansa were walking outside and he revealed that Jon was now LC of the NW. For a moment I thought he was wearing Roose’s coat, but his coat has the flayed man emblem in the leather chest-cross-thing. Ramsay’s doesn’t.

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    7. Thomas Sandstone,

      I don’t know what anyone else thinks, but I clicked on the picture, enlarged it, then brought up the “Smalljon Umber Cast” article for comparison. The guy in the trailer picture looks to have a widow’s peak, whereas the man cast as Smalljon does not. Their hairlines appear quite different, and I don’t think that’s a matter of styling. Also, the noses appear a bit different, and the face of the guy in the trailer looks a bit more rounded.

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    8. So I know there are people thinking that the rider behind Ramsay looks like Smalljon, BUT….

      I zoomed as well as I could onto the face in the still, and then compared it side by side to the actors headshot. I am a Jon-Snow-know-nothing on this subject, but my mother is an fraternal triplet and a identical twin, so I am pretty good at telling people who look very similar apart.

      The actor in the background does have a lot of similar facial features to Smalljon, but his cheekbones are wider set and his nose is more squatty while the actor who plays Smalljon has a longer, thinner bridge to his nose and a bit thinner face.

      Or I could be 100% wrong and he’s just making a weird face in the still and it is SJU. Either way!

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    9. I’m very disturbed/excited by the fact that I’m looking at these shots and have no advanced knowledge of the scenes that they are from.

      So very weird to be unsullied….

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    10. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Thomas Sandstone,

      I don’t know what anyone else thinks, but I clicked on the picture, enlarged it, then brought up the “Smalljon Umber Cast” article for comparison.The guy in the trailer picture looks to have a widow’s peak, whereas the man cast as Smalljon does not.Their hairlines appear quite different, and I don’t think that’s a matter of styling.Also, the noses appear a bit different, and the face of the guy in the trailer looks a bit more rounded.

      Okay, I just did the same thing because I was starting to worry, and yeah, the hairlines are definitely different.

      Gods, I can’t believe I’ve resorted to comparing blurry images of background/minor characters. I’m so desperate for S6.

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    11. Felt Pelt,

      I consider Ramsay killing Roose pretty much a foregone conclusion, but I don’t know that I think the wardrobe says anything about it. They’re in the field in what looks like it’s meant to be a bit of a storm, so you’d expect Ramsay to be wearing more layers than in the past.

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    12. Lyanna_Targaryen,

      Hairlines aside, we saw the same differences. I know we’re only two people, but the fact we saw the same things at least makes me feel like I wasn’t just imagining the differences I saw.

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    13. BunBunStark: Gods, I can’t believe I’ve resorted to comparing blurry images of background/minor characters. I’m so desperate for S6.

      Hahaha…IKR! At least we can all be obsessive nutcases together. 🙂

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    14. Nothing will ever beat the shot of Dany with the Unsullied in the 2012 year end video. These shots were pretty mundane and revealed very little. Now I wonder if we’ll get a trailer earlier than usual, or do we have to wait 2 more months? I think the big visual in the trailers will be

      the Stark banner being carried into battle.

      At least that’s what I’d use.

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    15. BunBunStark: Okay, I just did the same thing because I was starting to worry, and yeah, the hairlines are definitely different.

      Gods, I can’t believe I’ve resorted to comparing blurry images of background/minor characters. I’m so desperate for S6.

      Why were you starting to worry?

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    16. so no one else is gonna talk about the new shots of drogon torching that city….. did we not see that, and yes True Detective season 2 is God awful..

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    17. BunBunStark: The only time I can think of Ramsay wearing such a heavy fur coat was when he & Sansa were walking outside and he revealed that Jon was now LC of the NW. For a moment I thought he was wearing Roose’s coat, but his coat has the flayed man emblem in the leather chest-cross-thing. Ramsay’s doesn’t.

      You’re right. Same coat.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlwglZaAsaM

      Interestingly at 1:00 there’s also a/the red-haired underling with the beard hanging around the shot’s periphery, as in the image above.

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    18. A. “There’s power in you. Do you feel it?”
      B. Ramsay looks serious. He’s never serious. He looks like someone took all of his toys away & he’s riding face-first into wildlings. (BWAHAHA)
      C. That’s Ramsay’s cloak from last season.
      D. Tommen & Cersei are both in black.
      E. Jorah.
      F. That is not Smalljon.
      G. Dany’s white dress has turned dark gray. She still has room to go darker.
      H. I couldn’t make it past the 1st 30 min of TD S2.

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    19. King of the Ashes: looks

      That wasn’t Drogon. It was Smaug, from “The Hobbit”. Remember the first section of the video is a recap of this year (a really loooooong recap, YAWN.), including HBO movie premieres. The new GoT stuff only comes at the end.

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    20. Ravyn:

      Please stop reminding me of True Detective S2, HBO.

      There should’ve never been a “Season 2″. The idea was absurd from the first moment it was announced.”True Detective” was near perfect as it is. To try to create a follow-up or a continuation was completely unnecessary.

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    21. I’m sure I’m not the first to say this here and I don’t mean to be superficial but wow Dany looked so beautiful.

      Daenerys Stormborn is the most sexy, most badass female character on television without a doubt.

      Jon Snow is the most sexy, most badass male character on television without a doubt.

      Will they hookup?

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    22. What I would like it would be for them to not put Euron in any promotional material or any trailer.And of course I hope they didn’t write a soft version of him.We do not sow!

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    23. I understand that Dany’s pretty white dress got dirty during her flight with Drogon, but instead of smudges of soot/dirt, this dress now looks uniformly gray, like it’s been dipped in gray dye.

      Edit: upon further review, that actually looks like a different dress than the one she had on in the season finale. Hmm.

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    24. Nice to see Jorah. Kinda disappointed. Was hoping for a couple of juicy tidbits to discuss into the new year from the YE. Such a loooong wait!

      Was excited by the brief flashes of Westworld though!

      OT with a tenuous connection: Anyone watch the first ep of The Expanse yet? Anyone have an opinion on the books? The first ep really throws you right into the world (unintelligible language and all) so thinking I may read at least the first book so that I can follow what the hell is going on.

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    25. Arthur,

      She does. That’s a great shot of her. Was disappointed that there was hardly anything from GOT. I’ve never seen a year-ender trailer from HBO so guess I was expecting a little different. Don’t know nothing about the other shows. The pic of Ramsey is cool though.

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    26. Awesome, season 6 looks bloody amazing.
      Can’t wait, and we should be getting the first trailer next month, end of January.
      Lol they really are teasing the fans aren’t they ?
      This season is going to be amazing, won’t be long now until my all time favorite show is back with another season 🙂

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    27. God so sick of Ramsay. Such a cartoony overpowered character. Still pissed about 20 good men scene and Sansa’s arc being subtracted to make her his victim. Basically repeating her arc with Joffrey. Hell Joffrey was at least portrayed as an idiot and was often humiliated by Tyrion/Tywin, Ramsay always wins and its so tiring. Overpowered villains are boring and villain sues. Why the hell is he portrayed as an untouchable pretty boy when in the books he was an ugly man who was hated by his father. Plus they gave him every villain cliche they could (evil girlfriend) Hopefully he dies, but D&D have a hard on for him. Such a stupid character the writers clearly tried to hard with.

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    28. Joee:
      Why the hell is he portrayed as an untouchable pretty boy when in the books he was an ugly man who was hated by his father.

      Because this isn’t the books.

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    29. I really think they are going to drop the trailer when we least expect it, that or after the Showing the last two or three episodes in theaters if they do it again. Pretty exciting.

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    30. You guys think they might tease more of season 6 this week ?
      Or do you think they’re finished for now ?

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    31. Aryamad:
      I had a giggle at the Cersei/Scientology building clip being back to back. Was that intentionally trying to conjure up thoughts of the faith militant vs the Queen Regent?

      Maybe the secret project that Qyburn has been working on for her in his mad scientist laboratory (accent on the second syllable, in a Boris Karloff voice) is actually inventing the E-Meter.

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    32. King of the Ashes,

      This isn’t a Hobbit forum, so I’ll just say I saw every movie and I literally couldn’t tell you one thing about them. Not one scene, character, plot point. Nothing. There’s a BTS video on the Internet where Jackson essentially admits he was completely unprepared to direct it, which is the least surprising revelation to anyone who’s seen it.

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    33. Sean C.:
      The passage of time on the show being something perennially debated, I’ll be mildly interested to see how Cersei’s hair is handled over the season.

      Maybe we can do an office pool wager on whether Cersei’s hair or baby Sam will grow faster next season.

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    34. Arthur,

      I totally agree!! Especially about Jon Snow lol:)
      But those two ending up together would make the story too much like a fairytale. And we all know it’s far from a happy ending – fairytale style story!
      I just hope to see Jon till the end of the this. Alive.

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    35. Ravyn,

      It shouldn’t be a surprise, since it was never a secret. Jackson acknowledged his short prep time from the very beginning of the production.

      That “video” is a 5 minute excerpt from a 10 hour documentary that shows nothing of how said obstacles were dealt with and overcome. It’s the very definition of “out-of-context”.

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    36. I need to see new footage of a living, breathing Jon! ? lol:) but yes I know that’s not gonna happen until the season starts
      ( hopefully ).

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    37. Joee,

      Why do I get the inpression that you are a pissed of Stannis stan? There is nothing wrong with the 20 good men setup except for Stannis’ fans who can’t fathom that their precious “One True King” lost.

      I’m not a fan of how Sansa’s arc in S5 was handled but the Boltons are better characters in the show; Myranda doesn’t exist in the books but she was no worse than Ramsay’s (male) freakshow in the books.

      Book!Roose is the softspoken evil stereotype in perection (the stupid Roose is a vampire theory exists for a reason) whereas the writing and McElhatton elevated the character. Ramsay is more evil but he has some complexity in his relationship with Roose and at least he is more entertaininc to watch.

      That said, I think Ramsay should die soon(ish) or the writers have to throw him in radically different circumstances.

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    38. Dragonslayer: There is nothing wrong with the 20 good men setup except for Stannis’ fans who can’t fathom that their precious “One True King” lost.

      Actually, there is: I’m not at all a Stannis fan, but I totally did not buy the notion that the 20 Good Men, arriving on horseback, could have sneaked all throughout the encampment without alerting anyone to their presence, set dozens of huge fires all going off at once and then disappeared without a trace. If you’ve ever slept in a tent in a campsite, you’d know that tent walls do nothing to stop sound. There is no privacy at all and it is difficult to sleep. You can hear every snore, fart and conversation from all the other tents around you, and every little animal scuffling past puts you on the alert. Even if no guards had been set or they were all drunk, intruders would still have been heard.

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    39. Firannion,

      I don’t really get though why stuff like this is hard for people to buy into. I mean, there’s so many “unrealistic” cinematic conventions (my personal favorite being entire armies being able to hear a commander’s battle speech).

      The fact that we’re told that 20 men snuck into Stannis’ camp is enough for me. How did they manage to be so quiet? I don’t know. We didn’t see it, so it’s left to the imagination. Could it be done in real life? No? Okay, big deal. There’s so many things done in film and television that wouldn’t actually really work, you couldn’t count them all.

      For something like this, I honestly don’t have any problem suspending my disbelief.

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    40. John W,

      Well said.

      Don’t mind them tough, they wil cling to whatever little thing they don’t like and hate it to the end of times.
      Hating this, makes them feel somewhat superior, is my guess.

      Every fandom is the same. You should have seen the LOTR fandom back inn the days, some of them hated even those movies..

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    41. Mihnea:
      John W,

      Every fandom is the same. You should have seen the LOTR fandom back inn the days, some of them hated even those movies..

      Oh, believe me, I remember. 😀 Thankfully, I wasn’t quite as invested in message boards/forums back then, so it didn’t phase me too much. Plus, my euphoric reaction to the films combated any negativity I did hear. 🙂

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    42. Ashara D: OT with a tenuous connection: Anyone watch the first ep of The Expanse yet? Anyone have an opinion on the books? The first ep really throws you right into the world (unintelligible language and all) so thinking I may read at least the first book so that I can follow what the hell is going on.

      The books are good, and the pilot is pretty faithful to the first part of Leviathan Wakes.

      And yeah, it’s a bit confusing. But I think it’s going to be worth sticking with it.

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    43. John W,

      That was the first time I ever looked for forums to disscuss movies, decided to do so after the 2nd movie, thats how much I loved them.

      You can imagine my suprise when I saw all those people hating on it. I was simply stunned, found it just ridiculous.
      And after reading the book, some time later, I found it even more ridiculous.

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    44. Arthur,

      Daeny looks awesome as always. Besides Missandei/Nathalie best looking girl on the show. Jon is handsome fellah and girls surely likes him.

      But hooking them together? Not sure about this, but I guess D&D wouldn’t let that opportunity slip past them. If that is the case let’s hope that he’s hot and she’s hot is not the necessary criterium for this. It has to serve the story somehow. I’m hoping in more of familial bond rather than it have to be romantic.

      Do you want them together?

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    45. Mihnea: Don’t mind them tough, they wil cling to whatever little thing they don’t like and hate it to the end of times.
      Hating this, makes them feel somewhat superior, is my guess.

      ::sigh:: Mihnea, why can’t you ever just simply disagree with me about some matter of taste, without turning it into a snide, snarky, scornful personal putdown? It grows very tiresome.

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    46. John W: There’s so many things done in film and television that wouldn’t actually really work, you couldn’t count them all.

      True enough, John W, and I’m sure that we all have little things of that nature that bother us and others that don’t. Willing suspension of disbelief is certainly a prerequisite to the enjoyment of fantasy. Perhaps I have just spent too much time camping to buy into that particular bit of implausibility. Your mileage may vary.

      I was mainly reacting to the suggestion that anybody who has a problem with the “20 Good Men” raid must necessarily be a Stannis the Mannis fanboy/fangirl, just as some people presume that anybody who isn’t a Dany fan must also be a Stannis the Mannis fanboy/fangirl. It’s quite a bit more complicated than that.

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    47. Geralt of Rivia,

      I see Dany and Jon’s future relationship more as a friendly one rather then a romantic one.

      They have many things in common. From the sanse of honor, the idealistic way of seeing life and they also went trough similar events.
      I can easly see them being good friends.

      I don’t think they will have a romantic relationship, but I wouldn’t be quick too dissmiss it just because it is too ”fairy-tale”. In my opinion Martin started to write very different then he did the first 3 books.
      And I think people are quick too dissmiss it by saying Martin hates tropes.
      But I personally saw the last 2 books as full of tropes and ”cliches”, so it wouldn’t suprize me at all if he writes a ”happy ending”.

      Of course, if he ever finishes the story… Wich at this point I have no hope for it.

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    48. Okay sorry if i sounded a little pissed but christ Ramsay and Winterfell suffered from some bad writing. D&D tried too hard to make him seem unstoppable and it wasnt believable. Dorne was also terrible. I’m not really a book purist, I’m glad alot of the last two books were streamlined (Anyone liked Sam’s trip to Braavos?) But man some of season 5 was awful and tried too hard to be shocking

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    49. Firannion,

      That scene was ambiguous.

      DAVOS: We’re still getting a count, but hundreds are dead.

      STANNIS: 20 men rode into our camp without a single guard sounding the alarm?

      DAVOS: The northerners know more about their land than we ever will.

      STANNIS: Put last night’s guards in chains, either they fell asleep or they were conspiring with the enemy. Find out the truth and then hang them.

      The show never gave a clear answer, because it is not really important, but it was suggested that the guards were traitors and that is how Ramsay rode into their camp.

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    50. Aguero:
      I think Tommen is in black?!

      Maybe they are in Myrcella funeral?

      Good catch! They’re either at the funeral or after it. Or someone else has died!

      Dany is at the set they built in the Bardenas natural park, in Navarre, Spain. Considering what we saw being filmed there, it’s most likely from the very first episode. Ramsay could be in Saintfield, for a certain bastardly battle.

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    51. Firannion:

      I was mainly reacting to the suggestion that anybody who has a problem with the “20 Good Men” raid must necessarily be a Stannis the Mannis fanboy/fangirl

      IMO anybody who has a problem with Ramsay vs Stannis is either Stannis the Mannis fanboy or he/she just did not paid enough attention.

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    52. Joee,
      Listen, nobody cares. People have different opinions, and you’re a stranger on the Internet. And, in the end, it’s just a show.

      I wonder: Is there a possibility that Dany will get to see some visions while she’s among the Dothraki this year? I think this could be a cool bit of character development if she did – becoming changed, like Jon, more inhuman, more of a mystical saviour person? Maybe getting informed on her role in the whole White Walker business? This actually would make the side trip to the Dothraki worthwhile for me. And, notice, her last ADWD chapter does have her seeing things.

      But is there a place for that in the script? In that temple that gets burned, perhaps?

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    53. Yaga,

      There is chance. ..and iam hoping for it. .we don’t need to for the dothraki hut for that ..

      It can happen right here where we see dany on the river side alone shaggy and captured …perfect time for a viserys vision ..

      Geralt of Rivia,

      I can see them getting together …they both are so much alike and what not with all the parallels ..
      But even they are not tied romantically they will be finding family in one another …..
      But if they both ended marrying then GRRm will make it work …

      Just because they marry in the end does not make the story an happy ending …they both will have be suffered lot ..gone through worse and ..lost many close ones to them…and will be having a burden to reconstruct the broken kingdom …
      Nothing is happy about it …they habe to spend their resr of lives with the ghosts and wounds of the past …
      This last paragraph was not directed at you but who thinks that these two coming together means an happy ending …

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    54. Yaga,

      And I was just clarifying my opinion without sounding bitchy. Not making a big deal about it. That said, Bran is probably being given all the visions, though hopefully her time with the Dothraki has some plot significance to besides being a filler story to delay her getting to westeros for another season. Maybe Quaithe could appear

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    55. Firannion,

      Have you ever read history ? THere are plenty of instances where a small amount of people succeded in eliminating or at least run off large armies .

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    56. The only thing I can extract from this video after watching a second time is the possible hint where Mel is saying “There’s power in you…can you feel it?” as they show Jon in his weakened state. I don’t think she’s said that exactly in the show. More like “There’s power in you, but you resist it.” Am I wrong?

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    57. Mihnea:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      I see Dany and Jon’s future relationship more as a friendly one rather then a romantic one.

      They have many things in common. From the sanse of honor, the idealistic way of seeing life and they also went trough similar events.
      I can easly see them being good friends.

      I don’t think they will have a romantic relationship, but I wouldn’t be quick too dissmiss it just because it is too ”fairy-tale”. In my opinion Martin started to write very different then he did the first 3 books.
      And I think people are quick too dissmiss it by saying Martin hates tropes.
      But I personally saw the last 2 books as full of tropes and ”cliches”, so it wouldn’t suprize me at all if he writes a ”happy ending”.

      Of course, if he ever finishes the story… Wich at this point I have no hope for it.

      I agree. In the last books how often you think someone is dead but they really aren’t? Davos, Mance, the undead… It totally undermined the book notion that main characters can die at anytime, cause now they can also come back at anytime.
      And one of the greatest cliches on phantasy, the exchange of babies, is used twice.

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    58. O/T: Just sticking this on while I remember, apologies if already mentioned, haven’t had a chance to read anything on here since about 12 hours ago.

      Anyway, there is a 1 hour programme all about GRRM on Sky Atlantic (UK) tomorrow, tuesday 8th, at 10.10pm. I wasn’t planning on watching it, but if anyone’s really keen I could record it and do a transcript. If you’d like me to do one just reply to this post and I’ll get my best typing fingers warmed up 🙂

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    59. Joee,

      Not really a fan of Ramsay the villain both in the books and in the show. I do agree that show Ramsay is more cartoonish than book Ramsay. But that’s just my opinion.

      I think the dilemma of the show is that there are no real villains left really except maybe for Roose and LF. Tywin is dead. Joffrey is dead. That is no fault of the showrunners though. It was GRRM who wrote it. I’m really rooting for Roose Bolton to survive this season. I think he’s a far more interesting villain than Ramsay. Hope he doesn’t get killed.

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    60. Lulus Mum,

      Thanks, you’re a true team girl! I’d be interested, so please, kill your spare time and typing fingers for our sake 🙂 , the old gods and the new protect you!

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    61. mau: IMO anybody who has a problem with Ramsay vs Stannis is either Stannis the Mannis fanboy or he/she just did not paid enough attention.

      Well then, you are overgeneralizing, because 1) I’m decidedly not into Stannis, whether in the books or on TV 2) I do pay attention to details (and sometimes let them get to me if they strike me as implausible) and 3) I had a problem with that scene for reasons that I described in detail and that have nothing to do with Stannis.

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    62. Lulus Mum,
      Could you transcribe bits that you think are interesting? (Up to your discretion what that is – as far as I’m concerned, his opinions on US football and SadPuppies aren’t… not that much…)

      Joee,
      ‘Bitchy’ is in the eye of the beholder, I’m afraid. Now don’t get me wrong – there are a lot of places on the Internet where you can discuss your opinion about S5. I’d just rather it weren’t in a place where I can’t put you on ignore.

      …damn, this was harsh. Dude(tte), my point is, I, and many others, are here for the speculation and spoilers, but, due to the linear construction of this comment section, we can’t just overlook your derail about your opinion about what went on in the past season. So please show a little bit of community spirit and consider this in the future before you post.

      I mean, yay, I could write a couple of pages about WHY THEY DIDN’T SHOW BRIENNE KILLING STANNIS, ‘CAUSE I REALLY WANTED TO GET THAT LITTLE BIT OF CATHARTIC JUSTICE. Or something. But I wouldn’t expect people to tolerate me afterwards.

      e: and as I wrote this, the Stannis discussion came up again… damn. 🙁

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    63. Tyrion the myrion:
      Firannion,

      Have you ever read history ? THere are plenty of instances where a small amount of people succeded in eliminating or at least run off large armies .

      I never said otherwise. I just said that groups of people can’t plausibly sneak around closely spaced tents without being overheard, based on personal experience.

      Tyrion the myrion:
      Firannion,

      It’s hard to not get snarky when you see such an uneducated person make statements about things he doesn’t really know about .

      Who is this uneducated person of whom you speak? And how would you know what he does or doesn’t know about? Jeez, people seem to have their hostility hats on today – is Mars in retrograde or something?

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    64. Ravyn: This isn’t a Hobbit forum, so I’ll just say I saw every movie and I literally couldn’t tell you one thing about them. Not one scene, character, plot point. Nothing

      You can’t remember the dwarves, the hobbit, the elves, the battle and the huge dragon destroying a city, really? Maybe you should consult a doctor, Alzheimer is a terrible disease.

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    65. Firannion: I just said that groups of people can’t plausibly sneak around closely spaced tents without being overheard, based on personal experience.

      I’m thoroughly confused by your argument. Do the footsteps of Bolton soldiers sound somehow different from those of Baratheon soldiers? Why would anyone be alarmed by the sound (or even the sight!) of non-descript soldiers walking around in an active military encampment? It’s not like they would be hearing the loud stomps of an incoming army; it was just 20 guys, not even close to each other, throughout all the camp. They didn’t go in shouting and waving their Bolton banners; they infiltrated the camp (the soldiers didn’t have IDs in those times, did they!), set strategic fires (food supplies, stables, etc), and stormed off. How is that in any way implaussible? It’s basic guerrilla warfare. The fact that apparently all of them escaped is a tad too lucky (though the snowstorm must have helped!), but even if they had been caught the damage would have alrrady been done; and the damage being done at all is what you seem to have a problem believing.

        Quote  Reply

    66. ghost of winterfell,

      Now I noticed that the next line is “I’ve been afraid to use it, but I can’t be afraid anymore.” However that’s said in a guy’s voice from some other show. Not sure if it’s supposed to mean something to the GOT fans or was just a good crossover choice as they switched scenes.

      Ah scratch that…I guess they did the crossovers throughout the whole thing 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    67. Mihnea,

      I agree with what you said about them. I prefer something unusual, because usual way would have been romance or enemies. Or dare I say predictable. I hope George is aiming for some middle ground here. Like I said I wouldn’t ruled it out just yet because it’s cliche(you can find them in the books), but George likes to decontruct popular tropes and turn them on it’s head.

      We must hope that he will finish it and nothing stops him from doing that. He said that if he wouldn’t be able to do it. No one will which is a shame, but at least we know that show will reveal the end before him. So there is that, but I would like to watch the show and read the books, because I love them equally. Without George’s books there wouldn’t be any show and show cetainly improved in many aspects that books struggle with. Sometimes it just becomes too boring and George take his time. Some characters mainly secondary are better on the show.

      He always said bittersweet is the way or LOTR kind of ending. For one I can imagine main guys and girls to survive. Maybe there will be deaths among them as main characters. But not something like Jon and Daeny rulling ever happy together, Tyrion as their Hand of the King or something like that. Many fans wishes for something like that. Daeny might be rulling or not. Honestly there is no other choice for a better ruler. But for example if Jon made it through. I would like him to disappear with Ghost and become a legend people will be talking about instead of being a king. That is my wishful thinking here. There will be some deaths but not massacre.

        Quote  Reply

    68. “20 good men” is nowhere near as unrealistic as Brienne’s “put-a-tiny-candle-in-the-window-of-a-windswept-rickety-tower-all-the-way-across-a-hostile-castle-and-I’ll-come-get-you-solo” rescue plan. I mean, I can at least accept the concept of 20 guys wreaking havoc on an unprepared encampment.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Luka Nieto: They didn’t go in shouting and waving their Bolton banners; they infiltrated the camp (the soldiers didn’t have IDs in those times, did they!), set strategic fires (food supplies, stables, etc), and stormed off. How is that in any way implaussible? It’s basic guerrilla warfare.

      Add to this how lax discipline would have become after having been snowbound for several days AND being stuck in such nasty winter weather, and it is very easy to think that Ramsay’s men could have infiltrated the camp. Oh, the completely synchronized burning of tents was unreal: but in a camp that large, it would take some time for people on one end to notice what happened on the other end.

      Really, the more interesting question is: why didn’t R’hllor deign to show Mel this in her fires? Of course, we can ask this of the books, too: there, R’hllor seems to put some blackout on Stannis. (All she can see is snow….) Moreover, this is not something we can explain as Mel looking after Ramsay wipes out Stannis: although the timelines are disjunct, it still was way too early for it to be post-Battle-of-Ice.

      So, there is this to consider, too: why didn’t R’hllor warn Mel? In both media, it leaves her in the dark.

      mau: The show never gave a clear answer, because it is not really important, but it was suggested that the guards were traitors and that is how Ramsay rode into their camp.

      The show suggested that it was that or that they fell asleep at their posts. However, the show also emphasized that an inert army is a lax army, both verbally and in shots showing them just milling about fires in dazes. Historically, it has always been very bad for military discipline to immobilize troops: and, historically, having troops being immobilized by winter weather is even worse. (This comes up in the book, too.)

      So, I would go with the show ultimately indicated that Stannis’ troops had pretty much lost their discipline at that point.

      Ygritte: Not sure if it’s supposed to mean something to the GOT fans or was just a good crossover choice as they switched scenes.

      Given that the people who put together the montage have only cursory details of what is happening in any of these shows, I doubt that is anything other than a nice cryptic sounding line. I have read that the ultimate find for the people who do these things are “horoscope lines”: i.e., ones that can be read so many different ways that they appear to be meaningful while actually being completely meaningless without a specific context.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Aryamad:
      I had a giggle at the Cersei/Scientology building clip being back to back. Was that intentionally trying to conjure up thoughts of the faith militant vs the Queen Regent?

      glad i was not the only one who noticed this, i also giggled

        Quote  Reply

    71. Geralt of Rivia: He always said bittersweet is the way or LOTR kind of ending. For one I can imagine main guys and girls to survive.

      The “sweet” part of the “bittersweet” is a key: the ending has to be sweet for some characters in some ways, or else it’s just a bitter ending. To this end, I would leave any bitter and any sweet open.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Kmg:
      Is that Kit Harrington at the 6 second mark of the video?

      Yes. That bit is from the season 5 finale, right before he’s stabbed.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Shy Lady Dragon, Yaga,
      Ok ladies/sers, I’ll give it a whirl. Also, while I’m trying to occupy my time before S6 starts, Sky Atlantic had 2 programmes in the run up to S5 – 20 greatest moments and a story so far thingy – that had not only his GRRMness but also a shed load of (minorish) cast members interviewed. I did offer to do a write up at the time but no-one yay!ed so I left it but if you’re keen I could do those too. (It’s about 3 hours’ worth so will take a while but without overselling it I would have liked to have seen them if I hadn’t been able to.)

      So to recap will deffo do the interview tomorrow and let me know if you’d like the other stuff 🙂

      Oh and I made the picture of Cersei and Tommen brighter in photoshop (here) and it does look like they are wearing black. I reckon she’s probably doing an “I will never let anything happen to you” type thingy. Well, we’ll see how that works out for you Ms Lannister. Not that well I’m guessing 😉

        Quote  Reply

    74. Arthur:
      I’m sure I’m not the first to say this here and I don’t mean to be superficial but wow Dany looked so beautiful.

      Daenerys Stormborn is the most sexy, most badass female character on television without a doubt.

      Jon Snow is the most sexy, most badass male character on television without a doubt.

      Will they hookup?

      Totally agree!
      Lena, Emilia, Ewan… Looks epic!

        Quote  Reply

    75. Matthew The Dragon Knight,

      I think they’ll go dark when Star Wars comes out. I think it would be cool if they released a little something something around Christmas but I’m not holding my breath.

      My birthday is January 10th (1985, I’m old to some and young to many more) and with the exception of last year (I believe they waited until Feb), they generally release the first teaser/trailers around that time. HBD to me 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    76. Wimsey,

      He said also that show ending or what show is doing in general will affect his writing in a way.

      It could be even for example Daeny might survive, defeat WW and win the throne, but in the realize that it cost here far more than she can ever imagine. Dragons might die, someone close to her, devastation of Westeros to certain extent. Or Jon for that matter. Defeating WW, but losing someone or something valuable to him. Bitter and sweet. Some might get the ending they deserve and some they don’t deserve. Some bitter and some sweet, but the general tone should be bittersweet and George always maintain on that.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Lulus Mum,

      Thanks again! I suppose I must haven been busy that time and missed your kind offer. I’m yaying now! Although I’m binge-watching GOT (again), I’m still impatient and long for new staff. So, whatever you can offer us is more precious than Lannister gold. And send my regards to Lulu, whoever he/ she might be 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    78. Luka Nieto,

      And on top of that…..

      S5E7

      DAAVOS: 40 horses died in the night. We’ll lose more come sunset. We’re running out of food. We can’t open the supply line until the snow clears.

      STANNIS: What else?

      DAAVOS: The Stormcrows rode off last night.

      STANNIS: 500 men……. Sell swords, loyal to nothing but gold.
      ————————————————-

      The situation was very difficult even before Ramsay.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Henry Gordon: “20 good men” is nowhere near as unrealistic as Brienne’s “put-a-tiny-candle-in-the-window-of-a-windswept-rickety-tower-all-the-way-across-a-hostile-castle-and-I’ll-come-get-you-solo” rescue plan. I mean, I can at least accept the concept of 20 guys wreaking havoc on an unprepared encampment.

      It’s quite ridiculous to talk about the candle and say it’s unrealistic, since Brienne missed it and never went into the castle… Whining whining whining.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Moka,

      Whining to say that if you’re looking for show choices to nitpick, there are better places to start than “20 good men” raid, which actually coulda possibly worked? Uh, ok. The raid’s success is at least logically plausible.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Lyanna_Targaryen:
      Matthew The Dragon Knight,

      I think they’ll go dark when Star Wars comes out. I think it would be cool if they released a little something something around Christmas but I’m not holding my breath.

      My birthday is January 10th (1985, I’m old to some and young to many more) and with the exception of last year (I believe they waited until Feb), they generally release the first teaser/trailers around that time. HBD to me

      Trailer last year was the end of January. Maybe they’ll wait until February to debut it with Vinyl.

        Quote  Reply

    82. I have to admit, despite my username, I’m not a huge Ramsay fan; but that second of footage looks so cool. Very ominous.

      I wonder where he is and who he’s approaching?

      Is he on a hillside watching Jon’s Northern/Wildling army taking formation?

      Is he on the hunt for Sansa?

      Is he approaching one of the other Northern strongholds to try and negotiate their support and allegiance?

      Makes me so eager to see the coming season.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Shy Lady Dragon,
      Right-o I’ll warm up my index fingers (two finger typist, me). I’ll need a bit of time but will do it as soon as possible. I reckon a pdf on imgur would be best, then I can stick in some screen shots and stuff.

      Thank you for the wishes, your Shyness. Lulu was my lovely cat who always sat on my lap to watch tv. We discovered GoT together but he was sadly one of S4’s off-screen deaths. At least he got to see Joffrey die horribly though and lived a much longer and happier life than most of the cast! I am now Bert and Ernie’s mum but kept the name. They are eagerly awaiting Ramsay’s downfall (there are plenty of others too, but he is No 1 on our House’s hit-list). If you see two tabby and white cats claw him to shreds in the show you’ll know they couldn’t wait any longer! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    84. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man: Is he on a hillside watching Jon’s Northern/Wildling army taking formation?

      Is he on the hunt for Sansa?

      Is he approaching one of the other Northern strongholds to try and negotiate their support and allegiance?

      The first two are the more probable: Ramsay is a supporting character, after all, and thus scenes focussing on him will be both short and there to setup something that Sansa, Jon, Theon or some other lead is doing.

      Moreover, the show (and the books) has setup a rallying point for the Northerners of which the Boltons can take advantage: there is a massive wildling invasion happening!

      Geralt of Rivia: Defeating WW, but losing someone or something valuable to him. Bitter and sweet. S

      My thought has been (for many, many years!) is that it will not be about “defeating” the White Walkers or R’hllor or anything else, at least as such. It will be about coming to some mutually least dissatisfactory arrangement. My thought is that this is when we might learn the truth underlying the AA legend (whether or not the show spells that out), and we learn that there will be big sacrifices for one or more parties in order to achieve this end. So, we will get sweet for most at the cost of bitter for some. (My suspicions about the origins of R’hllor concern the “bitter” to the prior bittersweet solution.)

        Quote  Reply

    85. Luka Nieto,
      Wimsey,

      Add to all of that, the fact that it was colder than a witch’s teat, they were hungry and probably dehydrated. In such circumstances, they would be at their very worst as far as keeping watch. They would literally be sleeping at their posts. Contrast this with Ramsay’s men who have been well kept at WF.

      I personally have wreaked some serious havoc with about 10 men and women against a much larger force using a sneak attack AND got away unharmed. It’s perfectly plausible under the circumstances presented. So every time I read the jibe, “Ramsay and his 20 good men” I’m a bit puzzled why people think it isn’t possible.

      Edited to add: the simultaneous bursting into fire of the various tents….now that I doubt. It’s not like they had switches on timers or anything.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Cersei’s Brain:
      Lulus Mum,

      Do you think that the special will be loaded to YouTube at some point?

      I thought the 2 other shows I mentioned would have been put on there but apparently no-one ever uploaded them (long story but I can’t do it). Sky seem to make some of their stuff available but not all. They have a companion GoT show, Thronecast, and post some episodes online but not others. It seems a bit hit and miss. No idea if they get their stuff taken down from You Tube, which is certainly possible?

      I’ll start on the earlier shows first in case someone does stick tomorrow’s on YT. Not sure if viewers outside the UK can view things on Sky Atlantic’s website but it’s here and they might put it on there afterwards?

        Quote  Reply

    87. Mihnea: You should have seen the LOTR fandom back inn the days, some of them hated even those movies..

      “Some of them”?!?!? There was a very vocal and loud contingent that hated the movies!

      What was more telling where this series is concerned is the Harry Potter fandom. The hardcores there loved the first two films, whereas audiences and critics went “meh.” (The audience drop after the first film was huge, and the films only once got back to the audience of the 2nd film.) However, audiences and critics loved the third film, with the audiences liking it enough that it actually produced a big rebound for the 4th film. And the subsequent films were well-enough liked by both that there was a very slow decay in audience afterwards. But the hardcores complained bitterly about those films.

      The reason why it is very relevant is that the hardcores that hated the 3rd, 4th and 5th films were also the ones who were furthest off about how the series would conclude. They were the ones convinced that Harry’s scar was not a piece of Voldemort’s soul, that Snape was “evil” and could not possibly have been in love with Harry’s mother, that there was magical power in Harry’s eyes, that the final book would be about Harry going back to Hogwarts as a student and learning “the” spell to defeat Voldemort, etc.

      In other words, the ones who complained loudest about deviations from the book demonstrated themselves to be the ones who understood the books the worst! The same was true of Tolkien fans, to be honest: the ones who could recite every line often had the least idea what Tolkien actually was doing. The odd thing is, had they read Tolkien’s letters, then they would have gotten it from Tolkien himself!

        Quote  Reply

    88. I do think they should’ve taken a bit more time to flesh out Stannis’s downfall so that it didn’t confuse and bewilder some people quite as much as it has (although I still think a lot of them overreacted).

      My main gripe is just a general lack of detail on some things, and also an inconsistency or two like Mel somehow coming across a horse even though all of them were supposed to be gone (which could’ve easily been rectified by the soldier saying most of the horses were gone, not all of them).

      I also must admit that the “20 good men” thing didn’t play out quite as I expected. I was expecting Ramsay to actually attempt to assassinate Stannis, not just set some things on fire and slip away… and that probably would’ve been a better approach overall in my opinion. I would’ve loved to see a brief clash between Ramsay and Stannis, too.

      Anyway, what’s done is done. We can only hope Season 6 will improve, or even invalidate some of the stumbles in 5.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Lyanna_Targaryen,

      Here are the release dates for the first trailers of the previous seasons :

      S2 : 29/01
      S3 : 23/02 (I still remember the suffering)
      S4 : 12/01
      S5 : 30/01

      So, yeah, something at the beginning of January is not out of the question.. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    90. Thank you for the article. Didn’t catch the clip on TV.

      I heard HBO is open to TD season3 if Pizzolatto is interested after last one. Makes sense they’d add so much TD S2 scenes :p

      Lisa0527,
      I also see the resemblance especially with that pic from instagram. Put a mustache and a short/ shadow of a beard and there it is. I live in the hope they turn cloak on Ramsay.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Wimsey: So, there is this to consider, too: why didn’t R’hllor warn Mel? In both media, it leaves her in the dark.

      Why would R’hllor warn mel?? Stannis was not the chosen one.

        Quote  Reply

    92. I’m also quite certain that’s Smalljon in the shot with Ramsay. However, I really can’t see Smalljon “siding” with the Boltons as anything but a saboteur a la Wyman Manderly (and probably a good chunk of the other Bolton forces).

      Maybe after Ramsay kills Roose (I’m 90% sure it’ll happen at this point), he’ll ask the rest of the Northern lords to declare their allegiance to the new Lord Bolton, and Smalljon will use that as his ticket in.

      Or that’s what I hope anyway, since the Umbers legitimately siding with the Boltons after everything that’s happened (and also presumably hiding Rickon Stark for years) would be pretty damn stupid.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Sean C.: Reply

      Regarding Cersei’s hair, wouldn’t the Queen mother of Westeros have access to a wig-maker and high quality hair from any commoner in KL? I would think she’d opt for a long wig. I can’t imagine she’d want to walk around with her hair shorn. Plus, I think she’d enjoy stealing a lowborn/peasant/servant woman’s long, beautiful golden curls to wear as her own.

      I can imagine Cersei ordering a few goldcloaks to grab any woman in KL with long, golden curls, drag them to her chambers and have them forcibly chop off their beautiful hair whilst she watches in that smug, subtly gleeful Cersei manner. I wonder if they’ll provide some explanation as to why she’s not going to wear a wig. I’m genuinely curious.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Robb Snow,

      My main gripe is just a general lack of detail on some things, and also an inconsistency or two like Mel somehow coming across a horse even though all of them were supposed to be gone (which could’ve easily been rectified by the soldier saying most of the horses were gone, not all of them).

      Or having Stannis ride part of the way to Winterfell, as if he and the royal party’s horses were kept separately, then have him dismount in solidarity with his men as they approached Winterfell.

        Quote  Reply

    95. If the Northern Lords see the real threat as the Wildling “army” being led by a NW deserter and traitor, then maybe siding with the Boltons against the Wildlings makes sense?

        Quote  Reply

    96. Henry Gordon:
      I can’t be the only one who thinks GRRM & R’hollor are being cute by showing Mellisandre only snow.

      Of course you’re not…although it may take a brick to Mel’s head (or a few choice words by Davos) for her to eventually get the hint. In a way, via her Stannis delusion, R’hllor led Mel to her ultimate destination and purpose (?) at CB. But, as others have indicated, R’hllor’s values and Mel’s objectives may not be entirely in sync.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Lisa0527,

      I don’t think the Wildlings could be portrayed realistically as enough of a threat to spur any of the Northern lords to side with the Boltons.

      I think those Northerners that do side with the Boltons (genuinely or not) will do so under duress or for their own gain.

      As far as we’re aware, the Northern lords didn’t flock to the Boltons’ side to defeat another much stronger foreign invader, Stannis, so I don’t see how they could be realistically shown to be siding with the Boltons simply because of the Wildlings.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Felt Pelt:
      To jump into the minutiae, have we seen Ramsay in that fur coat before?

      This is EXACTLY what I was thinking. I don’t think we’ve ever seen that outfit.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Lisa0527,

      Wildling army about 5000 and many of them are women, children and old people. Wildling women(spearwives) can fight as it was shown by Ygritte, Karsi or Osha, but Northerners would still rate Boltons threat higher. They’re also traitors that stabbed Starks and something Jon could never achieve. Even when he let Wildlings through the Wall and maybe things he’ll do in the future.

      Some Northern lords might side with the Boltons due to some reasons and others with Jon, Sansa or simply going on their own. Wildlings wouldn’t make a difference with their numbers.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Deesensfan,

      Yep, I’m just that awesome. *puts on sunglasses*

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Not to mention other Northern houses like the Mormonts and Hornwoods actually seem to be rallying against the Boltons, either on the side of Sansa, Rickon, or Jon… or all three. If those houses aren’t afraid of the Wildlings, I don’t see why the Umbers would be.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Robb Snow:
      Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      That, too.

      Lisa0527,

      The Boltons are also traitors, certainly to a far greater degree than Jon should ever be considered. So that justification would seem a bit flimsy to me.

      It’d be an “enemy of my enemy is my friend” situation. Fighting beside the Boltons against a common enemy. Not necessarily as Bolton loyalists, but as anti-Wildling. In any case…there they are. Beside Ramsay. I suppose there’s a number of theories where that makes sense.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Lulus Mum,

      I’m very sorry for Lulu and I know exactly how you felt because I’m a cat owner myself, currently at my fourth cat, Trilling. His only fault is that he watches only soccer.
      So yeah, I have wept for three losses by now. Fortunately, a new furry-purry-clawy mate can help you go one, not that the departed ones are ever forgotten.
      To end on a lighter note: maybe they should breed cats to make an army, their teeth and claws are to be feared!

        Quote  Reply

    103. Dany looks much better with wild hair… or better said, without that godawful Meereen wig. The dress also looks much better than her recent stuff. Hope it lasts.

        Quote  Reply

    104. This is so O/T: but I am doing a rewatch of all the seasons. In S2E01, Mel drinks poisoned wine and doesn’t die…. how does she manage that?? I mean I know shes a priestess and magic and everything, so is it magic??

        Quote  Reply

    105. Deesensfan,
      Dornish Pastie,

      I think it’s the same cloak with fur but even if it isn’t, I don’t think it’s a sign of a change in status so much as it is acknowledging that it’s getting colder. We should see everyone wearing more and more coats, furs, etc. We certainly saw it last season with Sansa.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Deesensfan,

      I know in the books

      the red stone around her neck glowed and IIRC it happened on the show as well.

      Take a look at that scene again, does the

      stone glow or show any light?

      OTOH We were given the impression that it was magic but since she admitted to Selyse that most of what she does is parlor tricks, she probably took the antidote before she entered the room. So she had advance warning that the Maester was going to try to poison her. Not really the answer you wanted, but that’s all the info I know.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Dame Pasty,

      I just watched again and it does! I never noticed it glowing. Fifth rewatch of season 2 and never noticed
      What does the glowing stone mean?

      I don’t remember her saying that to Selyse. I remember the convo.
      What are parlour tricks?

      heres the video

        Quote  Reply

    108. Deesensfan:
      This is so O/T: but I am doing a rewatch of all the seasons. In S2E01, Mel drinks poisoned wine and doesn’t die…. how does she manage that?? I mean I know shes a priestess and magic and everything, so is it magic??

      I can’t remember if it’s the books or the show or both, but there is a suggestion that Mel practices mithridatism: building up one’s immunity to various poisons by starting with a tiny dose and taking gradually increasing amounts each day. It’s named after a first century BCE king of Pontus, Mithridates VI, who did this for years because he greatly feared assassination attempts. In the end it backfired on him, spoiling his attempt at suicide when he was about to be taken captive by the Romans!

      Fantasy geeks will be most familiar with the concept from the Dread Pirate Roberts’ immunity to iocaine in ‘The Princess Bride,’ but it has long been a popular theme in literature. Here’s what Edna St. Vincent Millay had to say about it in a sonnet:

      Like him who day by day unto his draught
      Of delicate poison adds him one drop more
      Till he may drink unharmed the death of ten,
      Even so, inured to beauty, who have quaffed
      Each hour more deeply than the hour before,
      I drink—and live—what has destroyed some men.

      And here’s what A. E. Housman had to say in ‘A Shropshire Lad’:

      There was a king reigned in the East:
      There, when kings will sit to feast,
      They get their fill before they think
      With poisoned meat and poisoned drink.
      He gathered all that springs to birth
      From the many-venomed earth;
      First a little, thence to more,
      He sampled all her killing store;
      And easy, smiling, seasoned sound,
      Sate the king when healths went round.
      They put arsenic in his meat
      And stared aghast to watch him eat;
      They poured strychnine in his cup
      And shook to see him drink it up:
      They shook, they stared as white’s their shirt:
      Them it was their poison hurt.
      –I tell the tale that I heard told.
      Mithridates, he died old.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Deesensfan,

      “Parlor Tricks” = accomplishing something by ordinary mean but hiding it and making it seem mysterious, like “slight of hand”, the ordinary magic we are used to 🙂

      The Tub Scene, on Youtube , “Most of these potions….lies, deceptions to make men think they have witnessed our Lord’s power”

        Quote  Reply

    110. Shy Lady Dragon,
      Anyone who could train a cat army and get them to do what they wanted would be ruler of all known worlds, fictional or otherwise, never mind just the seven kingdoms. Talk about mission impossible! 😀 My guys like to chill on the settee and are useful for hiding behind or extra cuddles if GoT is particularly gruesome or sad.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Also, if Smalljon is pretending to side with the Boltons, I’d put him on the short list as

      one of the potential burning cross victims, since it’s highly possible Ramsay might sniff out his scheme and react, uh… accordingly.

        Quote  Reply

    112. aurane waters,

      No, True Detective Season 2 was no where near as bad as everyone made it out to be. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Nothing will ever touch Season 1, which was a true work of art in every sense. The only thing that S2 suffers from is that S1 exists. If it was a standalone show, I think it would have been received very positively. The eery mystical, philosophical elements that elevated S1 so far beyond just a “hardboiled cop drama” were not prominent in S2, but it was still completely worth watching.

      Everyone who complains about great TV can suck it and go watch garbage like CSI or SVU. Ick. (the original Law & Order rocked, though, before everything went all cheesy, predictable character dramas with the spinoffs).

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    113. Anguissette1979: most (if not all) Northern lords have a big betrayal up their collective sleeves.

      Yesssssss! Attack from within, hopefully during a hearty meal of meat pie! However, I think Ramsay will detect the Rat Cook’s recipe before it is fully baked and will react quite harshly.

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    114. Dame Pasty:
      Firannion,

      I do vaguely recall this implication…..knowing GRRM’s penchant for history, wouldn’t surprise me if he borrowed this idea.

      It does sound like the sort of thing that an aspiring maegi might study in Asshai, doesn’t it?

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    115. The three new images appear to be from early in the season: for example, Daenerys still wearing her dirty clothes from the 5th season finale. Therefore, Ramsay’s scene should also be fairly early. I believe this is Ramsay in super-serious mode, out looking for his wife and his Reek after discovering them gone. 😀

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    116. Jon will not be a deserter. You can’t desert an organization that is trying to kill you. You escape. You don’t desert. That’s why I think Edd will stay at the Wall. Also, according to Westeros (i know) people in the books who are wary of the decision to allow the wildlings to settle in the Gift are the northern mountain clans and the Night’s Watch.

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    117. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      They’ve been handling Wildlings on their own for a long time, rallying under the Boltons makes little sense, I agree. To top it off no one helped the NW’s call for arms when Mance was at the Wall with 100,000 Wildlings, and as you pointed out no one jumped when a Southerner came with the army that defeated the 100,000 Wildlings either. So if that’s is how they handle it instead of turning against the Boltons as traitors of the Starks which the North chose collectively as the North’s ruling family when they named Robb as King in the North… well I think that’s not consistent storytelling IMO. But that’s just me.

      And why would you have that little note from a little girl telling Stannis to shove his True King title up his arse, as a statement of how the North feels about the Starks ruling it, when you got the whole of the North supporting now the Boltons who plotted against Robb. It just doesn’t add up.

      Yes! you know it! I am rooting for an Umber treason. A big ass treason! Karstarks it’s a different story.

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    118. FMFTW,

      OT: I agree. I enjoyed S2 TD. I think they purposefully went the opposite from S1. S1 was all in the mind–making it timeless. But S2 was ALL about what was going on in their heads and very much rooted in a time and place. Judged on it’s own, S2 was better than 80% of TV, which is pretty darn good.

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    119. Hopefully it’s

      Myrcella

      and not

      Margaery

      that Cersei and Tommen are wearing black for, LOL.
      I can’t see if Cersei looks smug or emotional/crying in that short clip.

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    120. Oops, I posted with a mistake in my email address. Sorry! If a good soul can pull my previous comment out of moderation I’d appreciate it. It’s not cosca using my account!!! LOL

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    121. mau,

      You’re right, it wasn’t clear. The writers gave us us two reasons from which to choose to make it plausible. I think what is more important was what it revealed about Stannis’ character, which is he didn’t care why they did it. He would not distinguish between their being a traitor versus if they were starving and freezing to death. The first being unacceptable and the latter being understandable. You can’t fight biology and it was dumb to expect them to be able to do it IMHO.

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    122. has anyone discussed the idea of a bastard truce? I think it would be totally GRRM to force JS to team up with the guy who married/raped his sister and who is partially resp for the murder of his brother/stepmother for the “greater good” to fight off the wights….

      Maybe that’s what the reported “talk” in the courtyard of winterfell is about…

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    123. Robb Snow: If those houses aren’t afraid of the Wildlings, I don’t see why the Umbers would be.

      Because Last Heath is very close to the Gift and the Wall, unlike the strongholds of most other Northern houses. Sadly, their animosity towards the wildlings is a very realostic reason to side with the Boltons against an army of wildlings.

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    124. Maddams: that Cersei and Tommen are wearing black for, LOL.
      I can’t see if Cersei looks smug or emotional/crying in that short clip.

      She doesn’t look as distraught or vengeful as I thought she would look for Myrcella. Maybe it’s (but hope not)

      Loras and not Margaery. Or, like I had said in a thread a few days ago, she couldn’t contain her spitefulness and had Mace killed, which will release all kinds of drama.

      Someone wondered earlier why she would be advertising part of the shame she was put through by the shearing of her hair by showing it short, and not wearing a wig in defiance. I agree. This is going to be an interesting season in things both large and small.

      With the black clothes they are wearing, I am assuming it’s Myrcella. I finally gave up my tinfoil hat theory in hopes that somehow Tyene had slipped Bronn the antidote and Myrcella made it back ok. Darned Ellaria. Yeah, I hope she bites it in Season 6.

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    125. This was an amazing year for television
      Game of Thrones season 5
      Better call Saul
      Fargo
      And Daredevil was also a very nice surprise.
      Hope next year can top it, Westworld, season 6 of Game of thrones, and more of better call Saul and daredevil. Can’t wait 🙂

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    126. Geralt of Rivia:
      Arthur,

      But hooking them together? Not sure about this, but I guess D&D wouldn’t let that opportunity slip past them. If that is the case let’s hope that he’s hot and she’s hot is not the necessary criterium for this. It has to serve the story somehow. I’m hoping in more of familial bond rather than it have to be romantic.

      Do you want them together?

      Yeah, I’m curious about those who think Jon/Daenerys might end up together romantically. If this is what is supposed to happen, I don’t think the books or show have set them up for this correctly at ALL. They don’t even know each other exist, and we’re nearing towards the end of the story. I think the best that anyone can hope for is that they meet and acknowledge that they are actually related to each other. And I’m skeptical about even that, as I’m not sure that Daenerys is going to live until the end credits. But even if she does, I don’t see romance in the cards for them.

      Same with those who think that Jon and Sansa are somehow going to end up together (despite spending their whole lives believing that they are brother and sister). Again, I think to do something like that, the showrunners would have had to build up their relationship completely differently. I don’t see it happening.

      The story has done several self-contained or low-stakes romances for the sake of the plot (self-contained: Robb/Talisa, Jon/Ygritte, low-stakes: Sam/Gilly) but I think if you look at the narrative as a whole, there’s really only one character whose entire overarching narrative has been strongly about “love” (Jaime), therefore I think the only plausible longterm romance we may see among the main characters who have been with us from the beginning us would be between Jaime/Brienne. But there’s actual set-up for that, actual foreshadowing and groundwork laid there, both in the books and show. I would find it extremely odd for GRRM and D&D to put two other major characters together romantically at the 11th hour without any set-up when they’ve taken what, four seasons, to frame the only other identifiable love story in the show as carefully as they have (aside from Jaime/Cersei).

      I suppose they could do something like have Jon end up with one of them out of “convenience,” since those types of marriages and pairing are resplendent in this story, but it would still strike me as odd and out of place.

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    127. Thronetender,

      True. What if it was

      Kevan

      ? Would the King (and Queen mother) be wearing black for him? I guess we’ll see.

      I hope it’s Myrcella too , maybe it’s just after the funeral and that’s the reason she does not look deeply distraught or she could be in shock. She only outwardly reacted at the funeral and death scene with Joffrey as well.

      .
      It could be so many things, it’s hard to wait for all the character plots, but we will see in time! So excited!

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    128. Hopefully Martin, D&D keep giving me dilemmas. That’s one of the reasons I would also like Ramsay to survive and be in an important role on the upcoming seasons/books.

      The 180-turns already happened with Jaime and Sansa.

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    129. kit_hepburn,

      Some valid points. I mean season 6 no meeting, they don’t even know each other exist. Daeny will at some point in season 7 land in Westeros and then dealing with problems in the south, while Jon in the North. Then some meeting could happen and that would like late in season 7, with season 8 being the last one or so Benioff said. Season 8 will be fully all Westeros dealing with WW or at least I guess. There will be little room for an epic romance without any set up. It would be forced and rushed and that is not good. I’m hoping for familial bond mainly, because of Daeny.
      She wants family and home more than anything. Sort of a animosity into friendship, respect as leaders and being family. Supporting each other and not necessarily in the bed. 😀

      I can argue that some things in the book could point to the romance if you interpretate them in a certain way. House of the Undying vision can be one clue, Val and Ghost belong together or Dany dreamt about young lover and not Jorah. In the show nothing so far or at least I didn’t noticed. Arya and Gendry might the other pair set up for the end, but Arya is so unpredictable.

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    130. K Noelle: Regarding Cersei’s hair, wouldn’t the Queen mother of Westeros have access to a wig-maker and high quality hair from any commoner in KL? I would think she’d opt for a long wig. I can’t imagine she’d want to walk around with her hair shorn. Plus, I think she’d enjoy stealing a lowborn/peasant/servant woman’s long, beautiful golden curls to wear as her own.

      I can imagine Cersei ordering a few goldcloaks to grab any woman in KL with long, golden curls, drag them to her chambers and have them forcibly chop off their beautiful hair whilst she watches in that smug, subtly gleeful Cersei manner. I wonder if they’ll provide some explanation as to why she’s not going to wear a wig. I’m genuinely curious.

      Very Evil Queen. Love it!

      Maybe Margaery’s curls XD That be something Cersei would do XDDD

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    131. I think Kevan is dead and Margeary is back home and is brainwashed. She is not the person Tommen felt in love with. Not a very big deal I think. At this time in Game of Thrones.

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    132. Greenjones,
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      No problem. Since the new gfycat interface is a bit strange, because it was clearly designed for mobile, here are the new/old features I found so far:

      1. HD switch – explains itself (seems to have a bug, it doesn’t show up in certain situations.

      2. Click, hold mouse and move up and down – zoming in and out (until the gif is very tiny or your screen is full)

      3. Move the mouse onto the gif – stops the gif

      4. move the mouse to the left and right on the gif – wind back and forth (the speed is responsive.

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    133. kit_hepburn,

      I personally believe that Dany and Jon are meant to meet and have some kind a relationship. I used the term “hookup” to be silly but obviously I didn’t mean for them to just meet and have sex for the sake that they both are beautiful. I was just using that word to be simple and funny.

      What I think will happen in a more serious note is Dany will come, land in Dorne and work her way north, conquering all who wont bend the knee as she moves up. While in the north by The Wall and in Stark (now Bolton) territory, Jon Snow will be battling for dominance and trying to unite all living humans to fight the invading white walker army.

      It’s inevitable that Dany will meet with Jon as she travels north. She will hear about him first, from people fleeing the white walkers from the north, and how he is all that’s standing between the living and walking dead and how he has the most knowledge on how to defeat the army of the dead. She will soon realize that defeating the army of the dead is more important then conquering all of Westeros and unite with Jon Snow (and probably in the process have some kind of romantic relationship).

      But this is GoT, not a fairytale, you all are correct.

      I think in the end both Jon and Dany will sacrifice themselves to save Westeros. Isn’t that GRRMish? One character who is a bastard and shunned by Westeros, stabbed to death by its own self proclaimed guardians, will give his life to protect them. The other, who was smuggled out of Westeros because they would have murdered her and spent her whole life trying to get back into Westeros, once finally there with all she wanted in her grasp, will sacrifice her life to protect her homeland.

      I think it will also entail more drama then that. For instance, Dany is the blood of the dragon. I believe Jon will have to plunge some mythical sword into Dany’s bare willing chest to temper it and make it become the sword of legend. Then Jon will have to face the Night’s King in a suicide mission to save Westeros.

      They will both sacrifice their life for a realm that rejected them and treated them like shit.

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    134. Arthur,

      I think it will also entail more drama then that. For instance, Dany is the blood of the dragon. I believe Jon will have to plunge some mythical sword into Dany’s bare willing chest to temper it and make it become the sword of legend. Then Jon will have to face the Night’s King in a suicide mission to save Westeros.

      Are you just being rude?

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    135. Robb Snow,
      Geralt of Rivia,

      I would not assume that: on the contrary, I think that they would view the Wildlings as a much greater threat than the Boltons. Oh, they do not like the Boltons: but the Boltons are Northerners, whereas the Wildlings are not. Nothing unites a divided house quite like a known common enemy: and the Wildlings are a common enemy for all the Northerners. The natural order of events would be for the Northerners to unite against the Wildlings, and then resume their internal feuds after that threat is ended. After all, united they can easily (or much more easily) defeat the Wildlings and preserve the north from their ravages; divided, they just make it that much easier for the Wildlings to defeat whichever side wins in a Northern Civil War.

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    136. mau: The show never gave a clear answer, because it is not really important, but it was suggested that the guards were traitors and that is how Ramsay rode into their camp.

      Plus there’s always the possibility that the guards in question were some of the sellswords that Stannis had. All Ramsey had to do was offer enough money to buy some silence. Or they were traitors. Or they fell asleep. Whatever. Then boom, they’re in and everything is on fire.

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    137. The speculation on the nature of Jon and Dany’s relationship made me think of the scene where maester Aemon tells Sam that a Targaeryen alone in the world is a terrible thing, just as Jon walks in. It gave me the impression that they will meet eventually, at least as possible family. Romantically though, I see more of a future for Jon and Val in the books than I do for Jon and Dany, in my opinion. However, Dany, if she finds out, will have the Starks as relatives through Jon as her nephew, so she won’t be completely alone in Westeros. It will be bittersweet if the “usurpers” become her only relatives, albeit distant relatives.

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    138. Wimsey,

      Well, 5000 Wildlings with many of them women, children and old people is not much of a threat. Let’s be honest here. Wildlings are hated, but hatred for Boltons is on special level. It looks like Northerners are plotting already against them. Some version of Manderly’s speech might make it. You really seems to overestimate Wildlings and Jon letting them through, him being a deserter. It will be problem but not that much of a problem.

      Not something ttey can’t overcome in one meeting. Much like with Hardhome it took them one big meeting to separate people willing to go with NW or those who couldn’t give a damn about them and their help. Something similiar should be happening with Northerners and Wildlings. I just can’t imagine Jon marching towards Winterell with only Wildlings. He needs more men and some meeting is inevitable.

      Morna the Witch,

      It was more of hint towards Jon being a Targaryen rather than them meeting together. Especially the way camera focused on Jon like…what’s up guys?

      Arthur,

      Daeny serving as Nissa Nissa is an insult to her or simply a great w to ruin her character. In this case let’s give Jon Drogon too. As for romantic connection. Nothing hints at that in the show and it would be simply easy way out. Too predictable. Finding the middle ground is tougher and in all honesty I’m really interested in their mindset and how they will work togetehr or clash over strategy. There is not much of a time to develop some kind of epic romance if they meet later in season 7 with WW threat around.

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    139. Geralt of Rivia,

      Wimsey,

      Also, the Wildlings haven’t been a threat to most of the Northern houses for a long time. Sure they raided a few villages around the Wall, but I doubt many houses even heard about those attacks. Unless I’m forgetting something, the Northmen don’t have any reason to be very hateful towards the Wildlings, whereas the Boltons assisted in murdering several of their kin relatively recently.

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    140. Tyrion the myrion:
      Firannion,

      Have you ever read history ? THere are plenty of instances where a small amount of people succeded in eliminating or at least run off large armies .

      Yep to this!

      I think you could explain what happend both with the conversation between Davos and Stannis somebody quoted above + the element of surprise + the possibility of some sellswords being paid off + the possibility of some other sellswords abandoning their posts… If some people were just leaving camp, because they just did not see the worth of freezing to death waiting, there probably was a lot of noise around the tents to cover whatever noise the 20 good men could be doing.

      I don’t think the sellswords left all at once one night. I believe Stannis army started disbanding bit by bit, until the situation became so ominous, that it became a flood.

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    141. Geralt of Rivia,

      Daeny serving as Nissa Nissa is an insult to her or simply a great w to ruin her character.

      How so? Do you know anything about who Nissa Nissa was, what she did, all that she accomplished? We know she gave her life to save the realm, is that bad? She could have been an epically powerful woman for all we know before she sacrificed herself, there is no information other then that…

      Also, how is it an insult to think a woman would bare her chest willingly and let someone tamper a sword by impaling her with it to save the whole kingdom and all her people by sacrificing herself that way? That’s pretty fucking noble IMO, there is a whole religion based off that, ever hear of it?

      I don’t see that as an insult, but we all see things differently. So whatever…

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    142. Matthew The Dragon Knight,

      Yes! The amount of good TV we are getting these days is ridiculous. Fargo is fantastic… Maybe it’s bad for my social life, but it seems that 2016 will have lots of quality TV. Of course, Game of Thrones is my number 1 show ever, so I think you can guess which show I’m most hyped to see 🙂

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    143. Geralt of Rivia: Well, 5000 Wildlings with many of them women, children and old people is not much of a threat. Let’s be honest here.

      What they are going to hear is “invasion.” Who is going to be telling them that they are starving women and children? Moreover, if you have not noticed, a lot of people won’t care if they are mostly starving women and children. Add to this that anything that they would know they probably learned from Bowen Marsh or Alliser Thorne or some other “Nationalist”, and they are not getting a “don’t worry, it’s not a big problem” message.

      Geralt of Rivia: You really seems to overestimate Wildlings and Jon letting them through, him being a deserter. It will be problem but not that much of a problem.

      I would say the opposite: you are greatly underestimating the issue! Jon had one job as a member of the Watch and as LC of the Watch: keep the Wildlings out. If he did let them through, then he had better be dead with blood on his sword. So, Jon is given one job, and what does he do? He lets the enemy march through the gates. Given that Jon has failed in the sole duty that the Night Watch has, why wouldn’t they revile him? And if they did not care about Wildlings coming through, then why bother with the Watch at all?

      One of Roose Bolton’s 20 good leeches: Also, the Wildlings haven’t been a threat to most of the Northern houses for a long time. Sure they raided a few villages around the Wall, but I doubt many houses even heard about those attacks.

      Again, the Wildlings are considered a sufficient threat that the Northerners keep the Night’s Watch going. It’s not there to keep out White Walkers: nobody believes that they exist anymore. It’s not there to keep out Giants: nobody believes that they exist anymore. It’s not there to keep out Snarks or Grumpkins: nobody believes that they exist. It’s there to keep out Wildlings.

      Indeed, you need to reverse the question: if the Northerners do not consider the Wildlings a threat, then why do they waste resources on the Wall?

      I think that people should look at this the other way around. The Boltons could not ask for a bigger gift from the old gods or the new than a Wildling invasion. There are real problems in the north. However, nothing makes people forget domestic troubles like the threat of outsiders. If there were conspiracy theorists in Westeros, then they would be posting that a Bolton Insider let the Wildlings into Westeros so that Roose and Ramsay could distract the rest of the North from their internal issues AND that the Insder pinned it on Jon to further defame House Stark. I mean, a Stark Scion letting the common enemy march through the Gates? That’s so good that even the best Bolton Propaganda Spinner would not have hoped for it!

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    144. Wimsey: Indeed, you need to reverse the question: if the Northerners do not consider the Wildlings a threat, then why do they waste resources on the Wall?

      I haven’t followed this particular argument very closely, although I must say that the rest of Westeros doesn’t particular forward resources there, either. I believe, as you say Wimsey, that no one believes in WW anymore, or the grumpkins, etc. But I don’t think they particularly care about Wildings, either, other than in the North, and consider the Wall mostly a repository for their cast-offs, or a humane alternative to death or dismemberment for their thieves, rapists, etc. Even the North is not particularly generous to the Wall, as evidenced by their lack of positive response when Jon and Sam sent out all those ravens.

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    145. I was just rewatching the video, and the line by Tyrion “this is your chance to build a better world”, presumably to Dany, is not from the last season. That line must also be from S6 I think.

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    146. ghost of winterfell,

      That would be great if it were the case, and it may well be! However, Tyrion did have a few lines similar to that one in Season 5, even if they aren’t exact matches. Most notably, when he stands before Dany in “Hardhome” and recounts all that Varys has told him about her, he says “He thought she was our best, last chance to build a better world.” I wouldn’t be surprised if HBO’s promotional department took part of that line and combined it with another snippet of Tyrion’s dialogue so that it better suited their purposes for this video. Or maybe they got the audio from an alternate take of that scene that the show didn’t use. That would be my guess, at least.

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    147. Dragon Tender,

      Thanks for the response! The production is great–very updated BSG. I think I will try to understand the world on my own so that I am not simultaneously trying to work through both show and books. So many worlds, so little time! Cheers!

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    148. Thronetender: … or a humane alternative to death or dismemberment for their thieves, rapists, etc.

      I don’t think that this is a society where “humane” is a real concept. They need people to do drudge work at the Wall. Sure, the Wildling raids hurt the Northerners the most directly: but that ultimately is not good for the southern economy. After all, the northerners pay the Kings’ taxes, too: and if their crops are burned and stolen, or if the small folk are killed without harvesting them, then that is tax money lost not just for the Starks, Boltons, Umbers, etc., but also for the Crown. Moreover, when Wildlings do get past the Wall, then those are Westerosi troops (Northern ones, obviously) who have to deal with them: and that means that they might not be free to do other things. And if enough Wildlings get through, then they might start creating problems for the southerners, too.

      So, it would be a minor nagging concern to the southerners, and a less minor nagging concern to the northerners. However, it seems to be enough of a concern that they continue to fund it. And they fund it for one reason only: to keep Wildlings out of Westeros. As such, they are not going to take kindly to someone who had one job and then went and did the opposite.

      Thronetender: Even the North is not particularly generous to the Wall, as evidenced by their lack of positive response when Jon and Sam sent out all those ravens.

      Well, consider what they put in the message: didn’t they claim that the White Walkers were returning? That probably got a few laughs: but it would not have gotten any serious response beyond damaging Jon’s credibility.

      That written, we are told both on the show and in the books that the Northerners are pretty generous about sending supplies to the Wall. And, again, they are doing this for one reason: to keep the Wildlings out.

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    149. Wimsey: What they are going to hear is “invasion.”Who is going to be telling them that they are starving women and children?Add to this that anything that they would know they probably learned from Bowen Marsh or Alliser Thorne

      Alliser will probably add, if you want our help, send us supplies, men, & taxes to which the northerners will respond, winter is coming & our men died in the war.

      Wimsey: Given that Jon has failed in the sole duty that the Night Watch has, why wouldn’t they revile him?

      I’m sure Karstark will make that argument. Hopefully, the wildlings will kill all of Bolton’s scouts, but when the Lord of Winterfell tells you he is going to take back his home, destroy House Bolton, & save his sweet sister with an army of wildlings under his command, everyone except the Karstarks will be more than happy to use them. Winter is coming. If kings die in their castles in winter, how can wildlings survive in the Gift?

      Wimsey: And if they did not care about Wildlings coming through, then why bother with the Watch at all?

      They don’t. The Wall has begged for men.

      Wimsey: if the Northerners do not consider the Wildlings a threat, then why do they waste resources on the Wall?

      They don’t anymore. Most northerners who lived in the Gift moved south.

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    150. Maddams: True. What if it was
      Kevan
      ? Would the King (and Queen mother) be wearing black for him? I guess we’ll see.

      Yes, he’s a blood uncle on the Lannister side, and respected at court with a respected reputation throughout Westeros, so yes it would be proper to mourn him if that’s the case. But inside, Cersei would be doing her “another one bites the dust” dance. She and Unc didn’t get along.

      No, I hope it’s NOT Myrcella, I liked her. But I’ve given up hope that she was somehow saved.

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    151. Jared,

      Why would they go through the trouble of cutting up lines or finding outtake lines? They probably just used a line from season 6. And it certainly sounds like something Tyrion could say to Dany in S6.

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    152. Arthur,

      Would you be satisfied with Jon being Nissa Nissa to someone else, because I wouldn’t. Daeny is awesome character and unique in a way. The whole thing would lead her to be some sacrifice to our perfect hero? Surely not. Maybe I shouldn’t use insult to her, but it’s simply wast of her character. So Jon should inherit Drogon in this case, because Daeny’s bond with him is for life. I can see her dying at the end, but to go out like this. No.

      Wimsey,

      I’m pretty sure scouts or some good spy would easily told them about their numbers and everything they would need to know. Thorne can blow this out of proportion by claiming Wildlings invaded their country and they need some help. We’ll see how quickly will be Jon revived and what will happen. I can see scenario where Umbers will side with Boltons for two reasons. Wildlings and Rickon being kept in secret. They will wait for good opportunity to strike. Something is already in motion in the North.

      Maybe I do. I just think they will simplify it, because if they realy want to play with Jon convincing each house in the North and struggle with it. I mean they do Jon and Sansa as for them to convincing people. I mean it would take forever and one big meeting is enough. Much like Daeny one meeting in Vaes Dothrak will be enough to establish dominance. Her actions will be enough to convince them and I guess same will be with Jon. His actions will speak louder than words. We don’t know if Jon when will be resurrected at The Wall, infront of the Weirwood tree or in the Gift. If he will deal with NW or if he let them to seal their fate.

      Since we know that their is other group of Northerners including Mormonts, Hornwoods and Starks. Jon is wearing their armor. It’s not a streach to think he will manage to convince some of them to work with him even with his reputation, but yeah it could play a role especially with Umbers being in the possesion of Rickon currently their best shot at establishing Starks as Lord of Winterfell. I just can’t imagine him to go to war with only Wildlings who wouldn’t make such a difference. Keep in mind that Karstarks and Umbers forces are much stronger.
      Especially Karstarks were like half of Robb’s forces. Out of 18 000 men. Boltons are strong as well and Umbers potentially too. Wildlings with barely 5000 with many children, woman or old people. Even let’s say 5000 Wildlings will all be ready to fight. It’s a threat but not that much of threat. Wildlings, Starks alliance will not be enough pin the battle if they side together. Umbers and Karstark are two strongest houses besides Boltons.

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    153. Wimsey: What they are going to hear is “invasion.”Who is going to be telling them that they are starving women and children?Moreover, if you have not noticed, a lot of people won’t care if they are mostly starving women and children.Add to this that anything that they would know they probably learned from Bowen Marsh or Alliser Thorne or some other “Nationalist”, and they are not getting a “don’t worry, it’s not a big problem” message.

      I would say the opposite: you are greatly underestimating the issue!Jon had one job as a member of the Watch and as LC of the Watch: keep the Wildlings out.If he did let them through, then he had better be dead with blood on his sword.So, Jon is given one job, and what does he do?He lets the enemy march through the gates.Given that Jon has failed in the sole duty that the Night Watch has, why wouldn’t they revile him?And if they did not care about Wildlings coming through, then why bother with the Watch at all?

      Again, the Wildlings are considered a sufficient threat that the Northerners keep the Night’s Watch going.It’s not there to keep out White Walkers: nobody believes that they exist anymore.It’s not there to keep out Giants: nobody believes that they exist anymore.It’s not there to keep out Snarks or Grumpkins: nobody believes that they exist.It’s there to keep out Wildlings.

      Indeed, you need to reverse the question: if the Northerners do not consider the Wildlings a threat, then why do they waste resources on the Wall?

      I think that people should look at this the other way around.The Boltons could not ask for a bigger gift from the old gods or the new than a Wildling invasion.There are real problems in the north.However, nothing makes people forget domestic troubles like the threat of outsiders.If there were conspiracy theorists in Westeros, then they would be posting that a Bolton Insider let the Wildlings into Westeros so that Roose and Ramsay could distract the rest of the North from their internal issues AND that the Insder pinned it on Jon to further defame House Stark.I mean, a Stark Scion letting the common enemy march through the Gates?That’s so good that even the best Bolton Propaganda Spinner would not have hoped for it!

      Are people are forgetting that Jon and the NW had actually defended the realm from a Wildling invasion. Jon’s part in it, from the information he gleaned from the Wildling camp and his defense of Castle Black was one of the reasons why he became the LC. I’m certain the North and the South has heard of this and still they refuse to send people to the Wall.

      He knows the WW are coming. With no help coming from the South, resettling the Wildlings south of the wall, using them to man the empty castles along the Wall is a good plan. Is it the best plan? Heck no. But I don’t see any other way.

      And you’re overstating the North’s contribution to the Wall post-Ned. When Ned was Warden, the North was there for the Watch. But after the Wo5K and then the Red Wedding and the coming Winter, the Northern resources are severely depleted.

      Anyway, Jon’s arc and the Wall story line last season was about going back to the Watch’s true purpose.

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    154. Arthur:
      <a href="#comment-484464"
      I think in the end both Jon and Dany will sacrifice themselves to save Westeros.Isn’t that GRRMish?One character who is a bastard and shunned by Westeros, stabbed to death by its own self proclaimed guardians, will give his life to protect them.The other, who was smuggled out of Westeros because they would have murdered her and spent her whole life trying to get back into Westeros, once finally there with all she wanted in her grasp, will sacrifice her life to protect her homeland.

      I also think that both Jon and Dany will sacrifice themselves to save Westeros…this even fits George’s recent comments about his ending being like Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings conclusion. Frodo, after saving Middle Earth, abandons it forever and journeys into the Undying Lands (Tolkien’s metaphor for death.) Assuming Jon and Dany are the “heroes” in this Saga (Ice & Fire), I believe a similar fate awaits them.

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    155. Wimsey,
      I think that you should watch out – you are in danger of radicalising (and then being disappointed / outraged if your theory doesn’t come to pass). At the end of all things, it’s just a story. How DnD will decide it unrolls is entirely dependent on what goal they mean to achieve.

      Personally, I think that they won’t care for the Watch much this season after Jon leaves them. The action will be elsewhere. So I think that we won’t see Thorne machinating. Also, I think that the most dramatic outcome is if some of the Northern lords are with the Boltons and some with Sansa/Jon (and some shift allegiance, and we don’t know which way). So I think Sansa may hear some ‘Southern traitorous bitch, lost her wolf, married a Lannister, married a Bolton, and she’s a girl, ewww cooties! how can we trust her?’ and Jon may hear some ‘he’s a bastard coming to usurp, wilding lover and failure as a Watcher, *and* on top crazy with a resurrection story’, but the counterpoint of ‘yeah, but the Boltons’ will be pretty strong.

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    156. Thronetender,

      At the end of season five, I felt bad for Mycella, and Cersei, and wanted Mycella to survive. but I am doing a rewatch of the seasons, and man oh man, I HATE cersei! I want her to suffer!

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    157. Rygritte: They don’t anymore. Most northerners who lived in the Gift moved south.

      Again, this is not true, in either the books or the show. In the books in particular, it is emphasized that the Westerosi lords were particularly generous to the Wall that year. I think it comes up as a throw-away line on the show, too.

      The fact that the Northerners have had to pretty much abandoned the areas near the Wall only shows what a constant threat the Wildlings are.

      Yaga: I think that you should watch out – you are in danger of radicalising (and then being disappointed / outraged if your theory doesn’t come to pass). At the end of all things, it’s just a story. How DnD will decide it unrolls is entirely dependent on what goal they mean to achieve.

      “Radicalizing” hardly describes my argument! Really, it comes down to GRRM: he wrote the original plot, after all. And GRRM is very much a student of history. In real history with real humans, this is how it works: disagreeing factions put aside their differences in the face of a common enemy. Me against my brothers, but my brothers and I against our cousins, and our family against the world.

      What I think is happening is quite the opposite: some people here are projecting their feelings about both the Wildlings and the Boltons onto the Westerosi. However, Viewers/Readers know a lot of things that the Westerosi do not. They know that the Walkers are real. The Westerosi do not. They know that the Wildlings have both good and bad people. The Westerosi believe them all to be murdering savages. We know that the Wildlings are in bad shape. The Westerosi are just going to hear “1000s of Wildlings.” And Viewers/Readers do not feel the same about things as the Westerosi are supposed to feel. Viewers/Readers are not supposed to have generations of grudges against the Wildlings, and they have not been brought up to fear them. The Westerosi, on the other hand, have been. Now, the Boltons would not be popular to say the least: but the Boltons seem to have always been less than popular (probably owing to their habit of flaying their enemies). However, insofar as we can see in both books and on the show, the Northerners put aside these differences come crunch time.

      And this is how real history has worked much more often than not: in the face of a established common enemy, civil strife is put on hold and formerly disagreeing factions unite if only until that threat is over. After all, humans are tribal animals: we were xenophobic before we were human. Other primates show these same disturbing habits: we fight like mad in our own troops, but put those fights on hold when threatened by other troops or other threats. So, if GRRM (and therefore B&W) continues the pattern of using real history as a guide for the overarching plots, then the Northerners will unite against the common enemy: with every intention of sorting out their own scores after they deal with the 1000s of Wildlings that have come through.

      And as for what M,B&W hope to achieve? Well, this is a story. And Jon is one of the two chiefest of chief protagonists. Thus, they need to provide Jon with a lot of challenges: nothing can be easy for him. They need to parallel what is happening to the other #1 Protagonist: Daeny. She is going to be facing the issues of Vaes Dothrak and getting the misogynistic xenophobic Dothraki to forgo sentencing her to life in prison and unite behind her. So, what MB&W should be trying to achieve is using the elements of the North to parallel those elements.

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    158. Ygritte,

      Oh, yes! Rose Leslie also seemed to enjoy it 🙂
      I myself prefer “the first ballad about incest”: “Would you land me a hand, ’cause I only have one!” 🙂 And I like Nikolaj 🙂

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    159. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Me too, Nickolaj seems like a pretty chill guy. I heard some of them were a bit nervous about agreeing to do this but then one of the cast members reminded them it’s for a good cause 🙂

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    160. Out of curiosity, how did this “The Northerners do not really care about the Wildlings” creep into the narrative? It’s not from the show, and it is very much the opposite in the books.

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    161. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Testament of Youth, so sad, and to think it really happened 🙁 I want to get the book now. Spooks just came On demand. Since we have loads of channels my husband wondered why I purchased a movie, then when Kit comes on screen he laughs and goes “Oh it’s cause that dude’s in here.” He doesn’t get into Thrones. He’s surprised I watch it because normally I’m too much of a prude to overlook the kind of gratuitous nudity that’s featured. There I said it, I know it’s not popular to be one but it’s the way I was raised….some things just stick with ya 🙂

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    162. El-Bobby,

      It’s definitely an edit of the line Jared quoted from Season 5 when Tyrion was standing before Daenerys on her throne in Meereen.

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    163. Ygritte,

      I think you are too modest. You may have been a prude when you were a teenager, but not any longer. You couldn’t have enjoyed GOT if you still had been. Your wild side have won or you wouldn’t have called yourself “Ygritte”.
      My boyfriend doesn’t like GOT either, but he is very understanding with my passion for it. He encourages me to order all GOT related staff I want. The old gods and the new bless him!

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    164. Wimsey:
      Out of curiosity, how did this “The Northerners do not really care about the Wildlings” creep into the narrative?It’s not from the show, and it is very much the opposite in the books.

      Because the TV non-actions speak louder than words. Now it becomes a retcon situation.

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    165. Judibatt: Because the TV non-actions speak louder than words. Now it becomes a retcon situation.

      Wildlings almost kidnapped Bran. Bran told Osha that the Gift was largely abandoned because of Wildling raiders. Boltons have only become bad guys in the North recently, and prior to that they were loyally serving the Starks for centuries. Whereas the Wildlings have been harrying the North for a much longer time.

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    166. FreeParking,

      The Gift is not THE north. It is a part of the north and ruled by the Night’s Watch, and thus contains no noble houses.
      I was answering the original question asked, “The Northerners do not really care about the Wildlings”
      So to say the north doesn’t care about the wildlings is probably an overstatement because they do, it is just not up to the noble houses to defend the gift because of the Night’s Watch “control” of that area. We saw Robb deal with the wildlings in the first season when they were outside of that area- and were kidnapping Bran as you mentioned 🙂
      The extended issue to be seen on screen now is the fact that so many northern houses have been absent it appears they don’t care, and now in S6, it looks like we are getting some? of those houses and they will have to address their silence/absence.

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    167. Wimsey,

      I don’t think the Northerners completely disregard the Wildlings, I just think they have more reasons to be hostile towards the Boltons instead of an enemy they’ve not had to deal with for hundred of years. Who do you worry about more, someone who assisted in the murder of your family members and happens to have a large and well equipped army, or a ragged bunch of poorly equipped “savages” half of whom are women and children?

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    168. Wimsey:
      Thus, they need to provide Jon with a lot of challenges: nothing can be easy for him.They need to parallel what is happening to the other #1 Protagonist: Daeny.She is going to be facing the issues of Vaes Dothrak and getting the misogynistic xenophobic Dothraki to forgo sentencing her to life in prison and unite behind her.So, what MB&W should be trying to achieve is using the elements of the North to parallel those elements.

      They don’t need to make another parallel. Different scenario. Daeny is going to spend quality time with Dothraki, but with Jon it’s different. Mel needs to figured it out that Jon is the one she’s been looking for. His resurrection could be around ep. 3 or 4. Then if it happens around the Wall, he might deal with the stiatuion here and move south which could take one episode. We’re around ep.6. Jon is not going to be in every episode so he might skip one. Then we’re around the battle and I just don’t think they will overcomplicate it. Simply Jon will march with Wildlings, meet Northerners and some will help and others no. If your idea is that everybody will be against him, well then you’re probably wrong. Not to mention Sansa might be with him. They will simplify it as always, They could have milked his negotiation with Wildlings a bit, focused on him preparing the Wall against WW what he done in the books.

      dragonbringer:
      Geralt of Rivia,

      I can see them getting together …they both are so much alike and what not with all the parallels ..
      But even they are not tied romantically they will be finding family in one another …..
      But if they both ended marrying then GRRm will make it work …

      Just because they marry in the end does not make the story an happyending …they both will have be suffered lot ..gone through worse and ..lost many close ones to them…and will be having a burden to reconstruct the broken kingdom …

      You’re mixing up romance and marriage.

      Jon and Daeny married on IT is leaning towards happy ending, fairytale main hero and heroine, Ice and Fire etc. targaryen will be on the IT, but I don’t think this pair will be up there. That’s just too predictable for George and he hates that. Familial bond, friendship and actual trust or respect is much better. They doesn’t have to be romantically involved, but they can do it. Lovers or enemies is usual way of doing things. Not to mention that there is very little time to develop without it too be rushed or forced.

      It’s very unlikely that they will meet in next season and maybe not even in the beginning of the season 7. Euron, Cersei or Lannisters in general are Daeny’s enemies. Parallels between them to me signalize two leaders rising, learning and working towards the WW threat. To be ready and not romance between them.

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    169. We keep going back and forth on this one. There are lots of quotes that indicate that Northerners don’t like the Wildlings and see them as a threat. Just wondering if there are any quotes in the show or book that indicate that the North Is indifferent to the Wildlings or doesn’t see them as a threat.?

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    170. To say that the North don’t care about the Wildlings is simply overstating it. They won’t exactly be welcoming and Jon definitely has his work cut out for him but who’s going to say he won’t succeed and that the North would be unreasonable?

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    171. Shadow Shifter,

      Exactly, the issue isn’t so black and white. On the one hand you have the Wildlings. On the other hand, you have the Boltons. The Boltons are not only partially responsible for the death of many Northerns, some of whom are close relatives of the noble houses, those deaths were because the Boltons betrayed the North. They weren’t just killed in the course of a regular war. It was flat out betrayal. There are other factors at play, as well, but in my view, I think those are some of the first things to consider. Of course, I can’t know with 100% certainty, as I don’t have a crystal ball.

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    172. Ygritte,

      your comment made me choke & spew pepsi lol! it cracked me up because my sister & cousins dont approve for that very reason & think im obsessed w/GoT (most definately i am) & think its a cult (just hysterical)

      just had to share. thnx for the laugh!

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    173. Wimsey: In the books in particular, it is emphasized that the Westerosi lords were particularly generous to the Wall that year.

      How so?

      Wimsey: The fact that the Northerners have had to pretty much abandoned the areas near the Wall only shows what a constant threat the Wildlings are.

      Were. The Gift was abandoned and the wildlings abandoned lands beyond the Wall. The Night’s Watch couldn’t even find any wildlings near the other side of the Wall. Lady Mormont says her House battled wildlings in olden days. An Umber is the only northerner outside of the Watch & House Stark who talks about a current wildling problem. He doesn’t say they are raiding. He just says too many of them are coming ashore to kill them all. A Flint & a Norrey object to wildlings in the Gift because they don’t want more mouths to feed. Selyse was scared of them. I’ll give you that. Manderly flat out laughs at the idea of a wildling threat.

      Wimsey:
      Out of curiosity, how did this “The Northerners do not really care about the Wildlings” creep into the narrative?It’s not from the show, and it is very much the opposite in the books.

      Because you keep hammering the idea that no northerner will align with Jon because he let the wildlings out. I think Old Nan’s stories have gone to your head. The majority of wildling discussion comes from the Night’s Watch, House Stark, & House Lannister. Even Catelyn knew there were worse things than wildlings beyond the Wall. Of course, Neddard dismissed her.

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    174. Felt Pelt,

      I was thinking that myself he has the look of being the main man, with a slight look of fear or apprehension, he has gotten word of jons ressurection and the army he commands coming to kill him

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    175. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Yes you could be right 🙂 What sort of items have you gotten, and where did you purchase? I’ve only seen ads from a place called Sunfrog, I think it was. Saw a few costumes on Ebay but we didn’t get around to dressing up for Halloween this year, bummer. But It’s always hit or miss when you buy off there anyways. Was going to go as Melisandre for a costume party, they had a decent looking wig and dress available, which would have worked well for me cause we have kind of similar facial features.

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    176. MaesterMercy,

      Haha! Love it. Well, I’ve never heard it described as a cult but you could say many of it’s fans are (I was going to say obsessed but I prefer “very absorbed” in it (raises hand.) In a good way though! It’s pure escapism, but one that exercises the mind and imagination, and we all need something like that to distract us from life’s practicalities and worries from time to time.

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    177. Ygritte,

      Unfortunately we Europeans borrowed only the holliday feeling at Halloween, not the costume parties. I mean, some people go to parties or to pubs, but that’s all. So, no costumes 🙁 I remember some years ago I painted an orchid on my face and went to a pub with a friend. Nobody was shocked, but I were the only person there wearing something different.
      I have bought the Wall and raven T-shirts, plus shorties from this site’s store and some things from HBO Shop Europe: a Targaryen sigil hoodie, a Stark bag (which I proudly wear almost all the time, it’s big enough for lots of staff and has a shoulder strap), A Tarth sigil T-shirt. I expect HBO Shop Europe to deliver me a Brienne figure, a Drogon and a Ghost Pop figures, a Stark pin and a Lannister one. But I intend to order more staff: a Corn T-shirt, a Jaime figure (to keep company to my Brienne).
      Maybe next Halloween you’ll be Melisandre. I hope the resemblance between you two is only exterior 😉

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    178. Shy Lady Dragon,

      Sounds like you got some cool stuff:) Brienne needs her Jamie for sure. I haven’t purchased anything GOT related yet. And you just reminded me they opened a store right here. Liked the Corn, and Weirwood T-shirts. I’ll have to grab a couple, after Christmas.

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    179. Shy Lady Dragon,

      That’s interesting too, I never realized that Halloween is mostly an American thing? Guess I never really thought about it haha. So, no costumes no trick or treating. Just parties here and there…are there any spooky decorations or scary movie marathons?

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    180. Ygritte,

      Very, very little decorations, mainly in places which have something in common with English/ American culture. Two years ago I attended a German language course at a Language Center where English is also taught and I saw some Halloween posters at that time of year. People can buy decorations at supermarkets, but I don’t know how many actually do.
      Cinema City in the malls have scary movie selections and some marathons.

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    181. Seeing Cersai makes me think of the beast that Qyburn has created, no doubt to settle a score with her. Cersai creates monsters who always turn around and bite her…or in this case, wrap their hands round her neck and squeeze.

      Cersai can never keep track of all the folks she’s screwed over. She better get a notebook.

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    182. Wimsey,

      Wimsey re Jon:
      they are not going to take kindly to someone who had one job and then went and did the opposite.

      Once they spot Jon, they may think he’s deserted. What other reason could the Lord Commander have for leaving his post? In calmer times, Watch deserters were executed on sight.

      Northerners won’t believe his story about being killed and resurrected; I doubt Jon will even try to tell it. He will represent himself as Lord Commander and try to tell them instead of the calamity that looms. They won’t be especially happy to hear the part about letting Wildlings through The Wall and allowing them to settle in The Gift.

      It occurs to me that Jon himself may not know what’s happened…that is, he may not even realize that he’s died and come back to life. It may all seem to him like a DREAM. He could think he’s simply on a mission to marshal the North against the Walkers.

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    183. Anon: I doubt Jon will even try to tell it.

      He will flat out deny it. Do I look undead to you? Alliser hates me because I was elected Lord Commander. He tried to kill me and assumed the position of Lord Commander.

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    184. OMG, I just watched last Doctor Who – and Arya Stark is actually an immortal hybrid who lived to watch the end of the Universe!

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