HBO releases titles and details for first 3 episodes of Game of Thrones season 7!

38 Daenerys Dragonstone coast

It’s the moment we’ve all been eagerly anticipating – HBO has finally given us information about the first few episodes this season! We’ve been waiting patiently (or rather, impatiently), so without further ado here they are in all their glory.

Episode #61: “Dragonstone”
Debut: SUNDAY, JULY 16 (9:00-10:00 p.m. ET/PT)

Jon (Kit Harington) organizes the defense of the North. Cersei (Lena Headey) tries to even the odds. Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) comes home.

Written for television by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Jeremy Podeswa.

Episode #62: “Stormborn”
Debut: SUNDAY, JULY 23 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)

Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) receives an unexpected visitor. Jon (Kit Harington) faces a revolt. Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) plans the conquest of Westeros.

Written for television by Bryan Cogman; directed by Mark Mylod.

Episode #63: “The Queen’s Justice”
Debut: SUNDAY, JULY 30 (9:00-10:00 p.m.)

Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) holds court. Cersei (Lena Headey) returns a gift. Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) learns from his mistakes.

Written for television by David Benioff & D. B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.

From HBO:

Daenerys Targaryen has finally set sail for Westeros with her armies, dragons and new Hand of the Queen, Tyrion Lannister. Jon Snow has been named King in the North after defeating Ramsay Bolton in the Battle of the Bastards and returning Winterfell to House Stark. In King’s Landing, Cersei Lannister has seized the Iron Throne by incinerating the High Sparrow, his followers and her rivals in the Sept of Baelor. But as old alliances fracture and new ones emerge, an army of dead men marches on the Wall, threatening to end the game of thrones forever.

Returning series regulars on GAME OF THRONES this season include: Emmy® and Golden Globe winner Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister), Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen), Aidan Gillen (Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish), Kit Harington (Jon Snow), Diana Rigg (Lady Olenna Tyrell), Sophie Turner (Sansa Stark) and Maisie Williams (Arya Stark).

Additional returning series regulars this season include: Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Gwendoline Christie (Brienne of Tarth), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei), Jerome Flynn (Bronn), Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont), Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark), Conleth Hill (Varys), Kristofer Hivju (Tormund Giantsbane), Hannah Murray (Gilly), Carice van Houten (Melisandre), Indira Varma (Ellaria Sand), Pilou Asbaek (Euron Greyjoy), Rory McCann (Sandor “The Hound” Clegane) and Richard Dormer (Beric Dondarrion).

New cast members for the seventh season include: Jim Broadbent, Tom Hopper, Megan Parkinson and Ed Sheeran.

What do you think? The descriptions are vague as always, but feel free to speculate away in the comments!

 

446 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. My head exploded!!!!!!!
      I AM SO EXCITEDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!

      OMGGGG

      Who is revolting against JON???????
      And Dany Dany Dany, yaaaaasss Queen!!!!

      I have no idea what to expect.

      Holy &*(2890

        Quote  Reply

    2. All related to Dany!
      The second one maybe also implies Euron and the third one Cersei.
      Love them! 🙂

      Unexpected visitor could be Melisandre? We see her in the trailer.
      I dont think Cersei’s gift is something good.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Personally, I’m quite annoyed that they’re all related to Dany. She’s not the only GoT character.

        Quote  Reply

    4. Dee Stark: Who is revolting against JON???????
      And Dany Dany Dany, yaaaaasss Queen!!!!

      I have no idea what to expect.

      I love this uncertainty!!! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    5. Lord Parramandas,

      The Queens Justice doesn’t have to relate to Dany

      But honestly, Dany invading the 7 kingdoms is the driving force of this season… Its going to be the main event by which most plot threads are built from.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Boring titles, but at this point I’m just happy Jack finally got his wish lol.

      “Jon (Kit Harington) organizes the defense of the North.” – King of anticipation! My procrastinating ass could never.

      “Jon (Kit Harington) faces a revolt.” – Lol yeah sure. “Just elected a king… let’s go revolt now!111”

      “Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) plans the conquest of Westeros.” – lol Dragonbringer is not going to like this. Where is he/she btw? Hope he/she is ok.

      “Cersei (Lena Headey) returns a gift.” – Lmao Queen of payments! Yaaas!

      “Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) learns from his mistakes.” – Truly, a Christmas miracle is upon us.

        Quote  Reply

    7. This will hopefully end certain people’s constant paranoid yammering.

      My best guess for episode two was “Stormborn”! “Dragonstone” is obvious but somehow I didn’t consider it, and “The Queen’s Justice” is a really nice title. I had suggestions in the same vein, but not that one in particular.

      Lord Parramandas:
      Personally, I’m quite annoyed that they’re all related to Dany. She’s not the only GoT character.

      Dany may be the most obvious interpretation, but it’s easy to see how the second and third titles may relate to other characters 😉

        Quote  Reply

    8. HelloThere:
      Lord Parramandas,

      The Queens Justice doesn’t have to relate to Dany

      But honestly, Dany invading the 7 kingdoms is the driving force of this season… Its going to be the main event by which most plot threads are built from.

      Still, it really bothers me… she’s not the only main character in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    9. r-hard,

      “Revolt” has a different connotation to it than just a single person scheming…
      Maybe the knights of the vale aren’t with him entirely yet?

        Quote  Reply

    10. Luka Nieto,

      Given I have no idea what will happen in the season, I could only make a guess for episode 1, and one of my guesses was Dragonstone. That doesn’t make me smart by any means, because its a perfect unspoilery title that focuses on the most important event of the episode.

      🙂

        Quote  Reply

    11. okok. Here are my speculations – based only officially released materials NO LEAKS:

      Episode #61: “Dragonstone”
      Jon (Kit Harington) organizes the defense of the North: Jon has scenes with Sansa and Tormund and there is some annoying squabbling.
      Cersei (Lena Headey) tries to even the odds: Cersei and Euron make contact I would guess. Otherwise, just meeting with Jaime and discussing teh strats
      Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) comes home: Dragonstone. duh.

      Episode #62: “Stormborn” . (BCogs EPI YAS!!!!)

      Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) receives an unexpected visitor: Wow. I have no idea. But I am so excited to find out. I do not think it can be either Jon or Jaime at this point in time (even though I am majorly anticpating these meetings). Arya? Gendry? WTF I do not know.
      Jon (Kit Harington) faces a revolt: OH dear Jon. I guess the wildlings and Westerosi are not getting along… again. *sigh*
      Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) plans the conquest of Westeros: F— yes, start plannign to take Casterley Rock back from your stupid sister!!!!

      Episode #63: “The Queen’s Justice”
      Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) holds court: Pleasepelasepleaseplease let this be Elaria being held to account for Myrcella (this is my fondest dream)
      Cersei (Lena Headey) returns a gift: Euron gives her ships/army, she gives him something back. Maybe a sexy something.
      Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) learns from his mistakes: OK this is extremely vague but also enticing, please let it be something substantial and breakup-inducing.

        Quote  Reply

    12. So hype!!!!!!

      Lord Parramandas, thanks to you, playing the part of Buzz Killington to perfection every time. It’s a comfort in these trying times.

      I couldn’t care less about episode names, I’m pretty sure no one else but this niche does either. I just need to see the episode!

        Quote  Reply

    13. With those titles and descriptions there is no doubt that S7 will be very Dany-Cersei-Jon-centric. After suffering through endless High Sparrow scenes, it’s a relief to know the show is back to focusing on the 3 main families.

        Quote  Reply

    14. While “Dragonstone” is obvious, perhaps too obvious, it’s also rather boring for a premiere episode title imo. It really makes no difference though. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    15. Lord Parramandas,

      I still think this is a silly criticism.
      And plus “Stormborn” can relate Euron.

      These episode titles have double and triple meanings.
      Dragonstone also houses Dragonglass which will be a big focus this season.

        Quote  Reply

    16. Give me the poetic titles HBO!I’m waiting.Anyway can they let Jon have a nap.Like just for my blood pressure.Anyway Sansa is revolting.She has taken all Jon’s furs and clothes and has given them to Littlefinger.The situation is quite dire lol.I’m exited for every episode because duh but I literally can’t wait for episode 3.It’s gonna be great

      In any case these descriptions are vague enough but nothing will surpass the excellent trolling job that was:Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman lol.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Lyanna_Targaryen,

      If I’m honest, I’m annoyed by all the overwhelming love Dany gets, like she’s some flawless hero… even though I generally prefer positive approach. Her scenes really leave bitter taste in my mouth as a consequence and I really don’t enjoy that all the titles are focused on her… on top of that, I’m not a fan of the actress’s performance and I cannot warm up to her character.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Lord Parramandas:
      Personally, I’m quite annoyed that they’re all related to Dany. She’s not the only GoT character.

      I agree, I find it pretty ridiculous. The third may be related to Cersei though, so I’ll hold off judgment on that one.

        Quote  Reply

    19. Queenofthrones,

      STOP

      I cant handle this. Your predictions are getting me so hype. HAHAHA
      All week im like WHO CARES ABOUT EPISODE TITLES, NO ONE DOES

      and now that ive seen them im like @#$%^&*() hahahaha

      BunBunStark,

      THISSSSSSSSSSSS

        Quote  Reply

    20. I know that Danaerys is D———-s Stormborn but is it possible that “Stormborn” could also allude to something to do with Euron. He did tell his big brother he (Euron) was “the storm” before he committed fratricide.

        Quote  Reply

    21. Boom, called it today.

      ______________________

      Ryan

      July 7, 2017 at 9:16 am

      I very much believe the 7.01 title will be announced today.

        Quote  Reply

    22. Flayed Potatoes,

      VERY boring titles, but honestly the quality of the titles has kind of suffered in recent years. They used to be more intriguing, at least to me. “Dragonstone” is an odd one, it occurred to me a couple days ago that they might name the premiere that, but then I thought “Nah, no way, too simplistic”.

      Guess they don’t mind being straightforward.

        Quote  Reply

    23. From the complete press release/. “Returning series regulars on Game of Thrones this season include: Emmy and Golden Globe winner Peter Dinklage (Tyrion Lannister), Nikolaj Coster-Waldau (Jaime Lannister), Lena Headey (Cersei Lannister), Emilia Clarke (Daenerys Targaryen), Aidan Gillen (Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish), Kit Harington (Jon Snow), Diana Rigg (Lady Olenna Tyrell), Sophie Turner(Sansa Stark) and Maisie Williams (Arya Stark).

      Additional returning series regulars this season include: Alfie Allen (Theon Greyjoy), John Bradley (Samwell Tarly), Gwendoline Christie (Brienne of Tarth), Liam Cunningham (Davos Seaworth), Nathalie Emmanuel (Missandei), Jerome Flynn (Bronn), Iain Glen (Jorah Mormont), Isaac Hempstead Wright (Bran Stark), Conleth Hill (Varys), Kristofer Hivju (Tormund Giantsbane),Hannah Murray (Gilly), Carice van Houten (Melisandre), Indira Varma (Ellaria Sand), Pilou Asbaek(Euron Greyjoy), Rory McCann (Sandor “The Hound” Clegane) and Richard Dormer (Beric Dondarrion).

      New cast members for the seventh season include: Jim Broadbent, Tom Hopper, Megan Parkinson and Ed Sheeran.”

      Looks like Pilou Asbaek and Richard Dormer won the series regular lottery this year. Better luck next year Gemma Whelan, Jacob Anderson, and Daniel Portman….if you survive….

        Quote  Reply

    24. Flayed Potatoes:
      Boring titles, but at this point I’m just happy Jack finally got his wish lol.

      I was concerned for his health at this point!!

      “Jon (Kit Harington) faces a revolt.” – Lol yeah sure. “Just elected a king… let’s go revolt now!111”

      *eyeroll* Ugh they set themselves up for having to manufacture drama in the Nort by not having any non-WW enemies left this season. *sigh*

      “Jaime (Nikolaj Coster-Waldau) learns from his mistakes.” – Truly, a Christmas miracle is upon us.

      IKR??? X-mas in July!!

        Quote  Reply

    25. I’ve always thought this show was at its best when it’s kept the focus primarily on the three noble families of Stark, Targaryen, and Lannister. And it appears as though this season will have all that in spades.

      The episode titles are vague, but then again they do naturally make the most sense. I’ve always enjoyed that for such a complex show they enlist simple and nebulous titles for the episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    26. Flayed Potatoes:
      Boring titles, but at this point I’m just happy Jack finally got his wish lol.

      Thanks! I’m so happy we got some titles they could have been named anything lol!

        Quote  Reply

    27. Jack Bauer 24,

      So, what happened to there being no titles this year ? I thought they were going to be called “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc….

      Maybe you’ll finally chill out now.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Dame of Mercia,

      Actually I immediately thought of Dany and Euron. Ugh Euron #why

      Markus Stark,

      They ran out of budget coming up with the Episode names. Being on the clock and all, they only had FIVE MINUTES to submit 7 titles. Cut them some slack! HAHA!

        Quote  Reply

    29. Jenny: In any case these descriptions are vague enough but nothing will surpass the excellent trolling job that was:Sam and Gilly meet an older gentleman lol.

      Jenny,

      I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw that description for “Second Sons”. That’s about as vague as one can ever get

        Quote  Reply

    30. Jenny: Sansa is revolting

      Haha!

      Markus Stark: VERY boring titles, but honestly the quality of the titles has kind of suffered in recent years.

      Agreed. Although, it makes it easy later for referring to episodes I guess. In my head I’ll just keep referring to the premiere as “Return of the Dragon” because I like it. 😛

        Quote  Reply

    31. Markus Stark:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      So, what happened to there being no titles this year ? I thought they were going to be called “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc….

      Maybe you’ll finally chill out now.

      I’m good now and my apologies for being difficult about it. I quite like the titles btw and don’t mind them being Dany heavy (although the third could be for Cersei too)

        Quote  Reply

    32. Markus Stark,

      I mean really D&D and the other writers aren’t big fans of subtlety lol. Not even surprised… Battle of the Bastards is just lol.

      But at least they released The Winds of Winter before GRRM. This year they’ll release A Dream of Spring maybe 😛

      *gets bricked*

        Quote  Reply

    33. Someone is captured in episode 2 and gifted to Cersei.

      Cersei, the mad queen, returns the gift to Dany by sending her their head(s).

        Quote  Reply

    34. HelloThere,

      Yeah, but I’d prefer a more cryptic approach. “Dragonstone” is just way too straightforward. Anyway it doesn’t matter, they’re just titles.

        Quote  Reply

    35. HelloThere:
      Dee Stark,

      If done right, Euron is a great character… if they can remedy the clumsy writing for him in S6.

      I really liked his introduction scene. Thought it was really well done and Euron came off very menacing.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Flayed Potatoes: But at least they released The Winds of Winter before GRRM. This year they’ll release A Dream of Spring maybe

      Ugh…but likely. I hope an episode in S8 is named A Time for Wolves.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Ser Josh:
      Someone is captured in episode 2 and gifted to Cersei.

      Cersei, the mad queen, returns the gift to Dany by sending her their head(s).

      Hope she uses some gift wrap.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Andrew W,

      I wouldn’t pay much mind to that. Series regular doesn’t necessarily mean main cast member credited in the intro. Anyway, the second list is “other series regulars”, so… 😉

        Quote  Reply

    39. Ser Josh:
      Euron captures someone in episode 2 and gifts them to Cersei.

      Cersei, the mad queen, returns the gift to Dany by sending her their head(s).

      I like it!
      If you’re right, Plz let it be sandsnakes lol (And NOT Yara GJ).

        Quote  Reply

    40. Dee Stark,

      They haven’t full blown Sand Snaked him yet so….

      and plus until Season 5, characters like Olenna, Margaery, and Oberyn were made even better than their book counterparts… But they also were introduced early on the story and given real heft and screentime.

      Hindsight is 20-20, but Euron should’ve been brought in for season 4 or 5 if they meant for him to be a powerhouse.

        Quote  Reply

    41. HelloThere,

      I guess so.. I should give it a chance, and I will. I mean come on… like you, I would love any POOP on this show. Hahaha

      I just don’t want him to come in and kill some one (dragons and wolves inclusive) I like… LOL

        Quote  Reply

    42. Lord Parramandas,

      Only one title is without a doubt centered around Dany. ‘The Queen’s Justice ‘ is 100 percent referring to Cersei. Dragonstone is a place. Calm down. Yes, the titles are kind of ‘meh’, though I like ‘Stormborn’. But most people couldn’t even name the titles to most episodes. And really, Dany’s arrival in Westeros is monumental, so of course that would be a focus.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Dame of Mercia,

      I think Ep 2 is marine battle because of this.
      Returning a gift would be something to Euron i believe. Grant of permanent title or something when he shows up in Blackwater Bay in force and with a gift

        Quote  Reply

    44. Jack Bauer 24,

      Indeed. I was honestly quite worried about Euron for season seven, because he has only two scenes in season 6, and in the first he’s marvelously creepy and mad, and in the other he’s a boisterous buffoon. I hoped that just meant he was acting to win over the ironborn, but I didn’t want to hope. Apparently, I was right to hope! An interview today with Pilou Asbaek and others touches on this, claiming he’s very different in private. We’ll publish it in a few hours here.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Dee Stark,

      Dee, it could have been worse (are you an ASOIAF book reader?) – there were I think three more Ironborn “nuncles” in the books – Damphair, (well, we’ve seen a similar character but not identified as a Greyjoy – the priest who dunks the Ironborns’ heads under water), Victarion and an uncle on Theon’s and Yara’s (Asha’s in the books) mother’s side, Roderick the Reader. We’ve got off lightly in the show with just one, (sorry, I’m not trying to upset any Ironborn fans but it’s better for me to be honest, surely?)

        Quote  Reply

    46. Flayed Potatoes,

      That’s the biggest tragedy that has befallen the north in all these years.

      That’s why he leaves at the end of this episode for Dragonstone.He needs to find a curling iron.

        Quote  Reply

    47. 😡😡😡😡
      Where’s the Wolf Girl?
      Nothing in the episode summaries about her. Is she going to be riding horsies and camping ? Damn.

      Unless…

      “The Queen’s Justice” refers to

      Nymeria as queen of a giant wolf pack spotting Littlefinger in the woods…

        Quote  Reply

    48. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      Lord Parramandas,

      Only one title is without a doubt centered around Dany. ‘The Queen’s Justice ‘ is 100 percent referring to Cersei. Dragonstone is a place. Calm down. Yes, the titles are kind of ‘meh’, though I like ‘Stormborn’. But most people couldn’t even name the titles to most episodes. And really, Dany’s arrival in Westeros is monumental, so of course that would be a focus.

      Yes, they’re just titles, I know… like I said in one comment, it annoys me a bit how much overwhelming love Dany gets among general fandom. I’m trying to warm up to her and she did become slightly better for me in S6 but apart from S1, she’s not a character that i would really enjoy her presence on screen.

        Quote  Reply

    49. I am beyond excited. I was wondering if the revolt is due to the Umbers and Karstarks. Their houses got their butt kicked big time. Don’t tell me, I did not read the leak. I want to be surprised. I would think what is left of the Sandsnakes will be brought to justice by Cersei.

        Quote  Reply

    50. Dee Stark,

      They are generally dull to read about, and those chapters can be generally annoying side stories with little relevance to the plot.

      But my main problem w/ Euron in the show was just the silliness of the kingsmoot sequence in the writing.

        Quote  Reply

    51. Sure, the titles sound boring in some ways, but “Home” and “The Door” as names were criticized ahead of time too, so a seemingly lame title means little in terms of episode content…

        Quote  Reply

    52. I was hoping for ‘Queen’s Landing’ for the premiere, but whatevs. Hoping for ‘King Of Winter’ and ‘The Wolf And The Dragon’ for later episode titles.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Queen’s Landing would have been quite clever. Damn. Now I really want that.

      Mr Derp:
      The episode titles will get criticized one way or another.You can’t please everyone.

      False. Podrick can please everyone.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Tyrion Pimpslap:
      I was hoping for ‘Queen’s Landing’ for the premiere, but whatevs. Hoping for ‘King Of Winter’ and ‘The Wolf And The Dragon’ for later episode titles.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I was hoping for “First of Her Name”, but so much for that. I’m hoping that the season finale will be “A Song of Ice and Fire”.

      I was also thinking “The Storm” would be an episode title. Got soooo close, yet so far away.

        Quote  Reply

    55. We can’t say what Jaime’s mistakes might be in S7 but what are they up to this point? What do we consider mistakes, poor decisions?

        Quote  Reply

    56. Luka Nieto,

      Yes, I was actually very very excited w/ him in 6×02.
      I enjoyed that scene.

      I think the logic of the kingsmoot, with the confusing montage, and Yara and Theons ridiculous coup of the entire fleet.. and then the claim of building 1000 ships threw me off, lol.

        Quote  Reply

    57. Jenny,

      And obviously

      Dany has curling irons to spare if you look at all the curls and braids on her prom wig.

      Jenny, I can’t believe we just leaked season 7!!

        Quote  Reply

    58. OK here is my speculation on the key pieces per episode:
      Cersei evening the odds is an alliance with Euron in the first episode. (sooner than I expected).
      The unexpected visitor Dany receives is Melisandre but could be Jorah.
      The revolt for Jon must be Sansa/Littlefinger.
      Dany holding court is an odd one, is someone on trial if so who could it be? Or could it mean the arrival of certain special visitors

      like Jon and Davos

      Cersei returning a gift is almost certainly revenge on her enemies, could this be the Martells by chance

      after Euron captures them in Episode 2

        Quote  Reply

    59. HelloThere,

      That’s been my suggestion for a while now. I hope they choose that, or something better. But I may change my opinion even if I’m disappointed at first. Some titles look boring until one watches the episode. “Home” and “The Door” come to mind. They seemed so generic… but they really weren’t, at all.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Mali,

      Oh! I’m sure LF will be involved in one way or another in that revolt… I can’t wait to see him in action again. As Varys would put it: “I rather enjoy him“.

      But when I said I live uncertainty I was referring to the fact that I have no idea about the things that will happen this season (besides what it’s shown in the trailers).

        Quote  Reply

    61. Luka Nieto,

      The imagery of the name “Field of Fire” is too amazing to pass over. I’ve always been mesmerized by that battle sequence when I’ve read its histories and watched the lores

        Quote  Reply

    62. Lord Parramandas,

      Maybe in the next four we’ll get: The White Wolf, The Pack, Mother of Madness and The Long Night to reference the other crucial players. The titles annoyed me a bit as well but are we really surprised? Dany landing in Westeros will most likely redirect most of the other characters whether many of us like it or not. And in turn the walkers will redirect her path as well.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Ser Josh:
      Someone is captured in episode 2 and gifted to Cersei.

      Cersei, the mad queen, returns the gift to Dany by sending her their head(s).

      Yeah, I don’t care about Ellaria and the Spice Snakes, but I’m fearful for Yara. Though her head could go right back to Euron rather than Dany, I suppose.

      And I don’t know why people are assuming that ‘The Queen’s Justice’ refers primarily to Dany. The King’s Justice was a euphemism for Ilyn Payne in his role as royal executioner; I suppose Ser Robert Strong/Frankenmountain serves Cersei in that capacity.

      In any case, they usually choose titles general enough to apply to several different aspects of the episode in question. Cersei, Dany and perhaps other past or would-be queens may have some justice to dish out.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Daenerys (Emilia Clarke) receives an unexpected visitor.

      Hot Pie with an express delivery of pasties and gravy, special deals for leaders of invading armies

        Quote  Reply

    65. mau:
      I think Hill is writing E5 and the rest is written by D&D.

      I was thinking that, too. D&D definitely wrote 6 and 7, which leaves Hill either 4 or 5.

      And D&D always write the battle episodes, which eliminates 4.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Dee Stark,

      Hahaha… You know quite well that “he would see this country burn if he could be king of the ashes.”

      Bless his little charcoal heart! 😛

        Quote  Reply

    67. Jon Snowed: I feel like the third is about Cersei not Dany.

      I wouldn’t be surprised if it referred to both Cersei and Dany – way back in season one the “Golden Crown” referred to Viserys’s “crown” from Khal Drogo but also to Ned realising that Cersei’s children all had golden hair.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Danny,

      Good guesses!

      For the record, here are my suggestions for the rest of the season:

      Episode 64: Field of Fire
      Episode 65: The (Last) Stag
      Episode 66: (The) Dead
      Episode 67: (The) Fall or The Dragon and the Wolf

      So, what are your title guesses for episodes 4, 5, 6 and 7, people?

      If they’re based on filming spoilers or leaks, cover it with a spoiler tag, please.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ser Not Appearing in this Series: Hot Pie with an express delivery of pasties and gravy, special deals for leaders of invading armies

      Sorry, but I hear he’s busing catering for a dinner party Cersei is throwing this season! She’s even preparing gifts for all the guests! Queen of potlucks!

        Quote  Reply

    70. OK, just to break the tension I may have unintentionally caused… I’m not a Dany hater and I really try to warm up to her as I know I will otherwise not enjoy the show. In fact, I’m not a “hater” of any main character as they all play role in the story and have their own journeys. There are scenes of her that I surely enjoyed, especially in S6. Her goodbye to Mormont, naming Tyrion her hand… those two especially stand out for me and I hope there will be more of those scenes in S7 and not just “Dany delivering speeches” (which are usually among my less favorite ones”).

      But I do admit I’m not the one who would be hyped about “Jon, Dany and Tyrion teaming up to defeat bad guys”. Tyrion is one of my favorite characters but these characters together is not something that would give me “the special feelings”. Cersei, Jaime, Sansa… I enjoy their presence more than Jon and Dany if I’m honest and I try to view show as following the characters themselves, their journey. So the overwhelming hype about Jon and Dany possibly meeting up (who are total strangers to each other)… I must say it turns me off a bit. I would probably like if/when they meet… but it won’t be some big moment for me.

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    71. Dee Stark:
      I LOVE THE SECRECY BEHIND ARYA AND BRAN

      SO

      FUCKING

      HYPE

      SOMEBODY GIVE ME A DAMN DRINK

      Not just Arya and Bran – SAM! We have seen so little of his adventures at the Citadel in the promotional material. A few stills of him holding/reading books is all I think we have. It is the story arcs they don’t show us anything of that are most exciting me, because it leads to the question of WHY they are hiding it.

      Also interesting to note that the show has been pushing Jon, Daenerys, Tyrion, Cersei and Jaime as the “big five”, and these episode summaries only mention those five characters.

      Episode titles don’t always indicate episode quality – remember how much we all complained last season about “The Door“?

        Quote  Reply

    72. Alba Stark,

      Haha, “The Door”… the biggest positive surprise to me when it came to the episode. I really did not expect such an incredible piece of GoT.

        Quote  Reply

    73. I’m about to quickly analyze this so here we go:

      Episode #61: “Dragonstone”

      Jon organizes the defense of the North. – This is pretty self explanatory I believe, we have seen this scene in the trailer where everyone is at the Winterfell hall.

      Cersei tries to even the odds. – This means Cersei is gonna try her hardest do gather an army big enough to be able to fight Dany. The giant map scene might be a part of it. Euron might be the one to reach out to her, although I admit it does feel kinda early.

      Daenerys comes home. – This is pretty self explanatory as well.

      Episode #62: “Stormborn”

      Daenerys receives an unexpected visitor. – Now this is the exciting part. Who could it be? My first thought was Jon but that would be too early. After thinking about it I am pretty sure it’s gonna be Melisandre. We see her at Dragonstone as well in the trailer.

      Jon faces a revolt. – Pretty sure not all of the lords were happy with the King in the North situation, so some of them might actually declare for Sansa, and this all ties in Littlefinger and Sansa possibly plotting against Jon.

      Tyrion plans the conquest of Westeros. – Pretty sure we’re gonna see Tyrion make his plans around the big Westeros map table at Dragonstone here. They are gonna prepare for Dany conquering the Seven Kingdoms.

      Episode #63: “The Queen’s Justice”

      Daenerys holds court. – She had an unexpected visitor last episode but holding court means receiving a more important party. Pretty sure this is when Jon and Davos arrive at Dragonstone. We see then there in the trailer as well.

      Cersei returns a gift. – This is obviously another one of her revenges. Who is left out there that Cercei might feel like they need to pay for hurting her? Sansa and Tyrion perhaps but they won’t be close to Cersei at this point. She blames Martells for killing her daughter and Ellaria did send her that necklace at the beginning of season 5. So perhaps Cersei has a gift for Ellaria as well? Or this could mean someone actually helped Cersei in her predicament against Dany and her armies so she might just be returning the favor in some way or another.

      Jaime learns from his mistakes. – Is this Jaime finally realizing who Cersei is? Or something else? We see him fighting for the Lannister army against Dany in the trailer so we know he still fights for Cersei, which means he won’t be out of her clutches yet.

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    74. Luka Nieto,

      Episode 4: Field of Fire
      Episode 5: The Dragon and the She-Wolf (if this is the episode where Inspector Gilly allegedly finds out about the R+L marriage; if not idk – I can’t exactly remember what happens here according to spoilers)
      Episode 6: King of Winter
      Episode 7: A Dream of Spring

        Quote  Reply

    75. Azor Asshai,

      “A Dream of Spring” would be a perfect series finale title, just like “The Winds of Winter” was for the season six finale. That’s why I hope (though not necessarily expect) we’ll at some point get “A Time for Wolves”, which was GRRM’s last planned volume title when this wasn’t a heptalogy. Maybe for season seven, maybe eight. I just hope they use that title somewhere.

        Quote  Reply

    76. If I add a bit more to my comment above: I’m hyped about S7 for sure. Maybe not as much as I was for S6, but I still am. But maybe my own hype is not in the same place as the hype of most of the people… I’m looking forward to S7 as a whole, the confronations, the battles and probably some twists as well (Dany’s conquest cannot be without firm obstacles I assume). But I still enjoy GoT for its complexity… the layered characters who are all grey and not black/white.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Perhaps the revolt is put down by Jon’s “fought together speech” we saw in the trailer?

        Quote  Reply

    78. Mr Derp: I’m hoping that the season finale will be “A Song of Ice and Fire”.

      Yeah…the homage would be tremendous. Maybe they will use it for S8’s final episode…or maybe just “Ice and Fire”.

      I was wondering if this season’s titles would be “Fire/Dany”-related and next season’s titles would be “Ice/Stark”-related…but “The Queen’s Justice” seems to refute that…or does it?

        Quote  Reply

    79. E04: Khaleesi
      E05: breaker of chains
      E06: mother of dragons
      E07: Alliances (people of westeros and WW join forces in order to stop hearing that title)

      kidding(or not) this shows how I feel about the episodes’ names

        Quote  Reply

    80. Luka Nieto:
      Azor Asshai,

      “A Dream of Spring” would be a perfect series finale title, just like “The Winds of Winter” was for the season six finale. That’s why I hope (though not necessarily expect) we’ll at some point get “A Time for Wolves”, which was GRRM’s last planned volume title when this wasn’t a heptalogy. Maybe for season seven, maybe eight. I just hope they use that title somewhere.

      I’m really hoping they use “A Time for Wolves” too.

        Quote  Reply

    81. These are all red herrings to have folks thinking this will be Dany’s season but instead:

      Dragonstone is obviously about Stannis who is not really dead and will regroup with Mel, Davos, and Sal San back at their homebase in the premiere. Get Hype

      Stormborn will be Euron’s coming out party and secure him as a player in the Game. Stormborn refers to his reign as Iron Islands king born on the night of the great storm when he tossed his brother of the bridge last season.

      Queen’s Justice refers to Sansa usurping Jon as KitN and taking her rightful place as…

      Who am I kidding, I couldn’t even keep a straight face as I typed these.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Jack Bauer 24:

      I really liked his introduction scene. Thought it was really well done and Euron came off very menacing.

      Saner Half, who just watched the show with me (his first-ever viewing), called that scene “Shakespearean.” He loved it.

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    83. Luka Nieto: So, what are your title guesses for episodes 4, 5, 6 and 7, people?

      #4 should be named what you wrote.

      5: “Flea Bottom” or something to do with Stag is probably a good guess
      6: “Clash of Kings”
      7: I do think “The Fall” is good for a couple of reasons. It may also be a good time to use “Ice and Fire”

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    84. Luka Nieto:

      An interview today with Pilou Asbaek and others touches on this, claiming he’s very different in private. We’ll publish it in a few hours here.

      Oh, really? How intriguing. Very different during sexytime with Cersei, perhaps? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    85. Lord Parramandas,

      why does it bother you?I don’t understand the need to be mad because fans show support for their favorites characters . How is it undeserved? you obviously don’t like her but that is just your opinion, doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t like her, or that you should be offended because some people prefer her over your faves. After all the irrational hate Daenerys character has received over the years from a certain part of the fandom that loves to hate and trash any character, especially female ones, that dares to take the spotlight from their particular favorite, I think it’s a refreshing change.
      Daenerys arc this season is a major event, it makes sense the focus of this season will be put on her arrival to Westeros.
      And it’s only three episodes names, I’m sure every character will have their opportunity to shine.

        Quote  Reply

    86. I actually really like these titles. I was hoping that the premier would be called Long May She Reign. I had other ideas for titles as well, including A Song of Ice and Fire, The Great War, Family Duty Honor (if Arya releases Edmure and heads north to Winterfell), Growing Strong (if we ever get to see Highgarden and it could also refer to any of the factions gaining power), The Army of the Dead, Full of Terrors, The Pack Survives, Silence (after Euron but of course could refer to a number of things)

        Quote  Reply

    87. I’m hoping for either

      7.4: Gloves!
      7.5: This Is Irregular
      7.6: The Gravy
      7.7: Less Enemies for Us
      8.1: Fewer

      or

      7.4: Hear Me Roar
      7.5: The Wolf and the Dragon
      7.6: He Brings the Storm
      7.7: The Shield that Guards the Realms of Men
      8.1: Night Gathers

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    88. Dee Stark:

      I LOVE THE SECRECY BEHIND ARYA AND BRAN

      SO

      FUCKING

      HYPE

      SOMEBODY GIVE ME A DAMN DRINK

      And the Brotherhood.

      I need to go to work and I really don’t wanna. WAAAHHH!!!

        Quote  Reply

    89. Jack Bauer 24: I really liked his introduction scene. Thought it was really well done and Euron came off very menacing.

      Huh. I hated that scene, thought Asbaek’s acting on the rope bridge was eye-rollingly bad. I have yet to be convinced that he brings any greater recommendation to the role than the fact that he could pass for Alfie Allen’s blood relative. I guess one viewer’s ‘menacing’ is another’s ‘moustache-twirling.’ (It doesn’t help that ‘Brother, I am the storm’ is dialogue as hokey as the thankfully excised ‘Men call me Darkstar, for I am of the night.’)

      But it’s a good thing, really, that different segments of the audience respond positively or negatively to different aspects of the show. Otherwise, we’d quickly run out of discussion topics here!

        Quote  Reply

    90. If Cersei “evening the odds” is her aligning with other houses to stand against Dany, I’m going to assume that D&D will be playing fast and loose with the ever-changing army sizes in post-war Westeros.

      King Robert said that Dany bringing one Dothraki Horde to Westeros would be unstoppable, yet Dany has ALL of the many dothraki hordes combined under her control + Unsullied + tens of thousands of other troops she doesn’t need from other Houses + 3 giant dragons who could destroy her enemies all by themselves.
      I don’t care if she divides her forces. It’s just kind of laughable to me that anyone wouldn’t run in the other direction at the sight of her forces because of some loyalty to Cersei, or that any Lord would reasonably think they have a chance against her to the point that they would ally with a queen (Cersei) that everyone seems to hate and is incredibly outnumbered even with her potential allies.

      Then again, people being unrealistically stupid makes for more drama. Wouldn’t be quite as dramatic if all of the lords laid their swords at Dany’s feet, and Cersei held up in the Red Keep all season threatening to blow it up if Dany steps into the city.

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    91. Glóin the Dark: 7.4: Gloves!
      7.5: This Is Irregular
      7.6: The Gravy
      7.7: Less Enemies for Us
      8.1: Fewer

      Set A, definitely! I want at least half an episode devoted to discussions of grammar and syntax, as civilized counterbalance to all the blood and guts (and tits and dragons).

      ‘The Gravy’ would of course include Arya reuniting with Hot Pie and lamenting his absence when she had Freys to fricassee.

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    92. Happy shitting, Game of Poop!

      Great little summaries.

      Euron is going to be magnificent and I can’t wait.

      Bye bye Sand Snarks

      Hopefully “Jaime gets a fucking clue already” will happen.

      We all know that a lot of the best parts are not mentioned in the summaries. No worries. 😊

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    93. stefan666,

      Cersei “returns a gift.” Deliberate ambiguities aside…
      • I considered and rejected Euron presenting to Cersei what he promised would be his glorious appendage, only to have Cersei return it as not measuring up to its advertised product dimensions. GoT has reached its juvenile organ size joke quota already.

      • The only “gift” I recall Cersei ever receiving was that unfolding box from Dorne with (a serpent sculpture? and) Myrcella’s necklace.
      Might she send back that gift box with another trinket inside?

        Quote  Reply

    94. Ellie:
      Lord Parramandas,

      why does it bother you?I don’t understand the need to be mad because fans show support for their favorites characters . How is it undeserved? you obviously don’t like her but that is just your opinion, doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t like her, or that you should be offended because some people prefer her over your faves. After all the irrational hate Daenerys character has received over the years from a certain part of the fandom that loves to hate and trash any character, especially female ones, that dares to take the spotlight from their particular favorite, I think it’s a refreshing change.
      Daenerys arc this season is a major event, it makes sense the focus of this season will be put on her arrival to Westeros.
      And it’s only three episodes names, I’m sure every character will have their opportunity to shine.

      Check my other comments. It’s not the fact that people like Dany that bothers me… I try to warm up to her myself. It’s the manner that bothers me… the way how is she worshipped as a flawless hero at times. I’m all for positive approach towards the show (in fact it bothers me this year as I feel the site is less positively aimed towards the show than last year) I try to appreciate all the characters, I understand the hype and everything but there is a line where it just feels too much for me, especially when other characters get trashed in the process. GoT is the series of complex layered characters, not “good guys vs bad guys”… the complexity is what has driven my interest in the first place and I try to look at characters from a very layered perspective.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Ser Josh,

      People will fight tooth-and-nail for land they consider “theirs” in the face of overwhelming odds against them. Many Westerosi will not view Daenerys’s arrival as her homecoming, but rather, as Targaryen Invasion 2.0.

      Daenerys’s military force might appear unstoppable, but remember: She is not there just to conquer. She is not there just to subdue the population, extract resources, and send riches elsewhere. She is planning on settling in Westeros and ruling it. She will not be able to do so (not for long, anyway) if all she has to offer is “fire and blood.”

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    96. Ten Bears,

      That’s the gift I was referring to, but not necessarily that one being the one she ”returns”. I just mean anything in general to pay Ellaria back. The ”gift” here could mean Cersei’s suffering by the hands of the Ellaria and the Sand Snakes, so a ”returned gift” could simply mean Cersei and/or Euron killing the Sand Snakes(possibly in front of Ellaria) to make Ellaria suffer as well, before killing her too.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Wolfish,

      Good point. People need to have a point, why they should support her. Dothraki are savages who pillage, rape and burn everything. I don’t think people would be really happy to support them. And I feel her forces may undergo some damage as the season goes on. It’s too easy for her at the moment.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Ser Josh,

      Leveling the playing field may just mean finding a method to do away with the dragons who constitute Dany’s WMDs. You take away the fire breathing lizards and then you just get men against men and army sizes don’t always equate to victory if you have capable commanders and strategists moving the smaller forces. Dany has Tyrion who is cunning but he’s not a military mind. Cersei could possibly have Randall Tarly and whoever he brings on board which would make it an interesting war. All of that, of course, would depend on the dragons being killed which I don’t think will happen. While Dany has those, she shouldn’t be defeated unless she fcks up somehow.

        Quote  Reply

    99. But on a serious note, I was hoping to have episodes with these names (not regarding the leaks, so these might not make sense), “the winter maid”, “forsaken”, “wind and words” “song of ice and fire”

      And to those who don’t,please cover your spoilers!!

        Quote  Reply

    100. Lord Parramandas,

      I don’t know how much time the show will have to expend on this after Dany’s successful conquest (if it happens), but it’ll be really interesting to see how the Dothraki “settle in” to Westerosi society during and after the War for the Dawn. Maybe they’ll wind up with the remainder of the Free Folk, and help repopulate the devastated North. That’ll require some major wardrobe changes, but I’m sure they can adjust. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    101. Wolfish: Daenerys’s military force might appear unstoppable, but remember: She is not there just to conquer. She is not there just to subdue the population, extract resources, and send riches elsewhere. She is planning on settling in Westeros and ruling it. She will not be able to do so (not for long, anyway) if all she has to offer is “fire and blood.”

      Brilliant analysis… That’s one of the things that really piques my curiosity: once she conquers Westeros, what will she do with the Dothrakis. What are her plans to fundamentally change their mores (from nomadic, warring and pillaging people to… farmers? villagers? burgesses?). Has she considered that?

      ETA: the moment I posted my comment I saw your reply to Lord Parramandas and pretty much agree with the fact the the show won’t have much time to dwell in those issues…

        Quote  Reply

    102. Wolfish,

      The Dothraki will surely have to change… just how the wildlings were forced to do as well. From what we know from them, they’re savages.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Wolfish,

      And there is still a possibility that most of the Dothraki won’t even survive the White Walkers attack… or even the conquest itself. We don’t even know if Daenerys herself will survive the series… or who would be the leader at the end.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Love that we finally got the episode titles, and that people get so passionate about them!

      “Dragonstone”, “Stormborn”, and “The Queen’s Justice” can all be tied to Dany, but I share the opinion that “The Queen’s Justice”, at least, is more likely to be a direct reference to Cersei. That “gift” that she’s returning to someone, as referenced in the synopsis, is unlikely to be a pleasant one – it’s probably the gift of death, doled out to someone who would prefer that the realm had a more stringent policy against regifting …

      “Jon faces a revolt” – I feel very confident that this is a misleading line, one that’s being overstated for dramatic effect. I seriously doubt that he’s facing serious discontent among his supporters already. It’s most likely referring Littlefinger seeking to foment unrest, probably by whispering in Sansa’s ear. Perhaps there are lingering tensions between the wildlings and the Northern Lords, but that feels like something Jon addressed in his speech before he was named King, and that he would most likely be able to diffuse.

      As ever, the synopses can be misleading, and sometimes downright cheeky. The infamous example that’s already been cited – “Sam and Gilly meet an older gentlemen”, referring to their encounter with a White Walker – comes to mind.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Wolfish: Daenerys’s military force might appear unstoppable, but remember: She is not there just to conquer. She is not there just to subdue the population, extract resources, and send riches elsewhere. She is planning on settling in Westeros and ruling it. She will not be able to do so (not for long, anyway) if all she has to offer is “fire and blood.”

      Yup…just as db and I discussed several weeks back, the Dothraki may be part of the “bittersweet” aspect of this adventure. I believe Dany has uprooted and escorted them to their eventual doom. They will provide us with glorious action and battle sequences but will have limited future options afterwards. The Unsullied (one generation wonders with no possibility of procreation) and wildlings may have similar results as well.

      dragonbringer highly disagrees with me though! He/she thinks they will integrate seamlessly. Hmm…

        Quote  Reply

    106. Danny:
      Ser Josh,

      Leveling the playing field may just mean finding a method to do away with the dragons who constitute Dany’s WMDs.You take away the fire breathing lizards and then you just get men against men and army sizes don’t always equate to victory if you have capable commanders and strategists moving the smaller forces.Dany has Tyrion who is cunning but he’s not a military mind.Cersei could possibly have Randall Tarly and whoever he brings on board which would make it an interesting war.All of that, of course, would depend on the dragons being killed which I don’t think will happen.While Dany has those, she shouldn’t be defeated unless she fcks up somehow.

      Like you, I don’t think a dragon will die or be subdued by any plan implemented by Cersei or her allies. Because outside of magic devices that I would be shocked to see the show go into, these monsters are just too big at this point to kill in a non-magical manner, and a steel bolt through the eye is blind luck comparable to hitting a 3 point shot from the opposite baseline while blindfolded. Either way, there would still be 2 others if you were so lucky.

      With army sizes, numbers can be made up with an exceptional strategy or simply having far superior military tech, but even the best strategy isn’t going to make up for what almost has to be at least a minimum of 100,000-150,000+ Targaryen soldiers vs. maybe 20,000 Lannister loyalists if she gets allies with decently sized armies.

      I’m all for Jaime and Bronn having a “300” strategy where they somehow lure 100,000 dothraki into a small opening to hold their own for a while. Although, that doesn’t account for 3 flying Godzilla monsters and it doesn’t take Tyrion being a military genius to not fall for something like that. It only worked against the Persians because they were foreign to the land, while Dany has advisers that know the land.

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    107. Lord Parramandas,

      One of the things I’m way behind on is watching all those YouTube videos explaining the historical inspirations for ASoIaF. I’ve always assumed the Dothraki were inspired by the Mongols pre-Genghis Khan. He was a brutal conqueror, but he was also an incredibly effective administrator who welcomed trade, fostered the exchange of ideas, and instituted some truly enlightened laws throughout the empire (such as tax exemptions for teachers and the clergy, and, because the Mongols were animists, the prohibition of blood sports). I don’t think Daenerys is the Dothraki equivalent of Genghis Khan, but I think a Genghis might arise among the Dothraki who see how a functional Seven Kingdoms (or perhaps Six Kingdoms) operate under a single ruler (or parliament, or whatever system is instituted assuming the Night King doesn’t win).

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    108. Firannion: Set A, definitely!I want at least half an episode devoted to discussions of grammar and syntax, as civilized counterbalance to all the blood and guts (and tits and dragons).

      ‘The Gravy’ would of course include Arya reuniting with Hot Pie and lamenting his absence when she had Freys to fricassee.

      Works for me…. with one or two tweaks

      7.4 “Gloves!” = callback to Nymeria & Arya S1e2

      7.5 “This is Irregular” – Sam, Gilly and Jim Broadbent I presume
      But I’m throwing out two alternates: “The Pack”; or “The Princess of Winterfell”

      7.6 “The Gravy” – but is it too soon for the reveal that the secret recipe for Hot Pie’s gravy is identical to the method for forging Valyrian Steel?

      7.7 “Less Enemies for Us”
      8.1 “Fewer”
      I like those… but maybe too early to suggest that enemy forces have been defeated?
      My alternates:
      7.7 “The Warrior” or “The Warrior of Light” or “The Chickens Come Home to Roost”

      Oh this is silly. That’s what unrelenting hype will do to you on a Friday afternoon.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Luka Nieto,

      My guesses for the remaining titles would be:

      604: “Field of Fire”
      605: “The Lone Wolf”
      606: “The Long Night”
      607: “The Great War”

      Andrew W,

      With Euron seemingly set to be a big player this season, I now feel pretty confident that Pilou Asbaek, at least, will be a series regular. I’d like Gemma Whelan to join him, but we’ll see. I agree that Daniel Portman, Jacob Anderson, and the others seem less likely. Though as Luka Nieto says, the press release shouldn’t be taken as gospel for these matters. Diana Rigg has been cited as a series regular in the official press release of every single season since at least Season 5 (possibly earlier), including this one, but she’s never appeared in the opening credits as a full-fledged series regular. Go figure.

      That being said, Richard Dormer being mentioned is an encouraging sign. I’ve always been a big fan of Beric, but ever since I saw him wielding the flaming sword in the trailer, my hype for Lightning Lord has been in full effect. Hopefully he’ll have a decent-sized role this year alongside Thoros and Sandor Clegane.

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    110. A Dornish Tyrell,
      Bless his heart indeed, my friend ! Couldn’t agree more ^^

      “Littlefinger was born with no lands, no wealth, no armies. He has acquired the first two. How long before he has the army ? Perhaps you’ll laugh but I know him better than most and this is the truth : Littlefinger is one of the most dangerous men in Westeros” – Varys

      And look who’s got an army now ! 😉

      As for The Queen’s Justice… The idea of Cersei “returning a gift” fills me with both dread and glee considering the last present she received was a snake in a box.

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    111. Ten Bears: “Oh, it’s 5:00.”

      Sandor: “Haven’t you had enough?”

      Ten Bears: “Of what? … I know. Time to go. ”

        Quote  Reply

    112. Luka, wouldn’t using the word ‘stag’ at all in an episode title be excessively spoilery? I mean, it’s not like we have a long list of candidates anymore.

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    113. Hodors Bastard:

      Yup… just as db and I discussed several weeks back, the Dothraki may be part of the “bittersweet” aspect of this adventure. I believe Dany has uprooted and escorted them to their eventual doom. They will provide us with glorious action and battle sequences but will have limited future options afterwards. The Unsullied (one-generation wonders) and wildlings may have similar results as well.

      dragonbringer highly disagrees with me though! He/she thinks they will integrate seamlessly.

      Well, in my fantasy world the remaining Dothraki will learn how to wear fur and ride mammoths, all the hunter-gatherer types will get together to repopulate the North and rebuild Hardhome, and the Unsullied will become really popular for being able to provide really hot, non-vanilla sex to all the creative types who wish to remain footloose and fancy-free (that is, the non-repopulating types).

      Yeah!!! That’s my “dream of spring.” And just think, I haven’t even started drinking yet!

        Quote  Reply

    114. Ten Bears,

      First I am so excited to see titles!
      To “Ten Bears”: in other seasons the title would include something like “Arya learns the way things are”… I was hoping to see a short line like that, but I have high hopes for her in the first three episodes. This isn’t a spoiler since it’s in the official HBO photos… she will be in at least one of the Mark Mylod episodes for sure. I just rewatched “Two Swords” a few minutes ago (episode 1 of season 4). Arya doesn’t show up until almost the very end of the episode, and I think it’s one of her most powerful scenes of the series. It really moved me when she rode off with the hound at the end of the episode on her very own first horse and she proudly had needle tucked in her belt (another white horse by the way..The official photos show her new white horse in season 7). Even if her scenes are short compared to Jon, Cersei and Dany, I think Arya’s scenes will be powerful this year. I am hungry for some chicken after watching the end of Two Swords. Such an awesome sequence, I may have to watch it again.

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    115. Making the 8,

      Yes, I meant Randyll. I would say with so many dead, he’s one of the few capable commanders left in Westeros. Lord Royce may be another one but less likely to fight on Team Cersei. Now I know that Randyll was Team Targaryen once but I doubt he’d go back to them.

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    116. Firannion,

      Add spoiler tags next time, please! I fixed it for you. And yes, it would be too spoilery, honestly. I just have no idea how to title that episode.

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    117. Firannion: ‘Jaime learns from his mistakes.’

      Jaime learns from his mistakes because his gift to Cersei will be the one she returns, forcing him to finally move on

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    118. Wolfish:
      Ser Josh,

      People will fight tooth-and-nail for land they consider “theirs” in the face of overwhelming odds against them. Many Westerosi will not view Daenerys’s arrival as her homecoming, but rather, as Targaryen Invasion 2.0.

      Daenerys’s military force might appear unstoppable, but remember: She is not there just to conquer. She is not there just to subdue the population, extract resources, and send riches elsewhere. She is planning on settling in Westeros and ruling it. She will not be able to do so (not for long, anyway) if all she has to offer is “fire and blood.”

      That is true if they truly believe that their land will be taken from them. In the face of certain death, if the invading force says “Bend the knee to me instead of the current Queen who blew up a quarter of your capitol city, and you can go about your business as usual” then most of the Lords would be willing to bend the knee to Dany and tell Cersei to kick rocks. These people have also been told the stories about how the Lords who resisted against Aegon (with basically no army) were easily dispatched, and the Lords who bent the knee prospered. So unlike the first invasion, they have a blueprint of how this will go down and what they should do.

      People want to live, and I just don’t see very many Westerosi Lords or common folk caring if Cersei isn’t the person sitting on a throne in KL, especially if their lives are what will be pointlessly sacrificed to attempt to keep her there.

      Now, if Dany doesn’t immediately get word out that any lord who kneels to her will keep their lordship and NOT have their lands raided, and she instead allows her dothraki to rape and pillage through the countryside, then sure, the Lords and common folk would take Cersei’s side and hopelessly take arms against her. I just don’t see her doing that, and I don’t see the dothraki being uncontrollable that early on.
      Even then, many powerful lords would still ally with Dany to get in her good graces and elevate their House knowing she will win.

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    119. Clob:
      We can’t say what Jaime’s mistakes might be in S7 but what are they up to this point?What do we consider mistakes, poor decisions?

      screwing his sister
      Joining the KG to screw his sister
      Putting up with being a 3rd wheel for 20 years so he can keep screwing his sister
      Pushing a kid out a window to keep screwing his sister
      Not being a dad to his kids allowing one to become an evil psycho
      Screwed up his one chance to win a battle
      Picking a fight with Brienne led to his hand getting cut off
      Failing to protect his other kids
      Failing to prevent his sister from committing mass murder
      I’d say he’s made a few

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    120. Lord Parramandas,

      yeah, I agree with you, I also appreciate more the complex characters over the ones that are 100% good or 100% bad because I don’t find them realistic or interesting. But in the case of the perception of certain characters as flawless heros I think it comes more from the fans, that from how the show really portraits them.
      I also think there is a lot sexism in how fans react to similar scenarios when it comes to male characters (who are often perceived as the flawless ones) in opposition to female characters (who are more often than not the most criticized). For the last six years many fans had trashed female characters in positions of power and called them many things (mad, entitled, delusional, selfish, etc, etc),completely ignoring what this female characters have being through, the struggles they had to face or the sacrifices thay made to be in the position they are now (, while male characters seemed to have a free pass for all their actions.
      As a woman, I’m glad to see a season more focous on the women characters in positions of power, and I don’t think it will be at the cost of the male ones, who will still have important things to do. So I get the hype many fans are getting for this season, because it will show us a perspective that we haven’t seen yet.

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    121. ACME,

      ACME, my friend! It was time you joined the fray! 🙂

      I share the same feelings about Cersei’s gift… 😨

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    122. At last, this will be the first time since season 1 that Daenerys will appear in both the 2nd and the 3rd episode of a season.

      I hope she’ll get a lot of screen time this season (she barely got any last season), and hope she’ll do more this season, instead of just reciting her titles or barely have any dialogue. She is most likely the least developed main character.

      I also hope for less screen time for Jon, as he has gotten way too much since season 4, with almost 3 full episodes that were focused on him, but sadly it won’t happen…

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    123. Just when I was coming down off the high from Con of Thrones, this brought it back up! These episodes sounds great! Love the way things are all converging. Wonder who Dany’s surprise visitor is (besides Jon, who sounds like he’s busy elsewhere at that time).

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    124. Jared:

      “Jon faces a revolt” – I feel very confident that this is a misleading line, one that’s being overstated for dramatic effect. I seriously doubt that he’s facing serious discontent among his supporters already. It’s most likely referring Littlefinger seeking to foment unrest, probably by whispering in Sansa’s ear. Perhaps there are lingering tensions between the wildlings and the Northern Lords, but that feels like something Jon addressed in his speech before he was named King, and that he would most likely be able to diffuse.

      One speech doesn’t fix a problem, might put a band-aid for the moment, but I doubt the Wildlings will change their ways over night or because of a speech or command, many will find it difficult to completely change and follow ‘community’ rules – it’s just not what they are used to. This was something he was stressing about back at Castle Black, but they really didn’t have time to go into it in the show, so moving it here would make sense. Plus it could be another reason for Sansa to feel put upon, as Jon leaves her with this mess as he goes South – something for Littlefinger to point to as one of the many way Jon is messing up and she would be a better ruler.

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    125. TargBlood,

      Dany and Jon will be equals in screen time now that Dany is in Westeros and actively involved in a plot line with other main characters. Jon is the most prominent POV character in the last three books that the show was based on. So it’s no surprise that he has had so much screen time in the last few seasons.

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    126. Tron79,

      You’re preachin’ to the choir! In my view, the last nine minutes of “Two Swords” is the all-time best segment of GoT. It has everything:
      • It starts with the dry comedy of The Hound and Arya throwing shade at each other, eg (paraphrasing)

      S: Little lady wants a pony?
      A: Little lady wants away from your stench
      ****
      A: You’re not very smart, are you?
      S: I’m not a thief.
      A: Murdering little boys is [fine] but thieving is beneath you?
      S: A man’s got to have a code.

      The scene could end there and be great, but of course then we get the “What the fuc*’s a Lommy?” and “Lots of people name their swords”/”Lots of c*nts” comedy bit, before the real laughs, suspense and action, courtesy of Polliver, ale, chickens, “Lowell there”, and some great acting by Rory M. and Maisie W. Arya reclaiming Needle and avenging Lommy, followed by the Hound scarfing chicken and Arya with Needle riding off was just perfect.

      Give me 9 minutes like that anywhere in S7 and I’ll be happy.

      Throw in a dramatic reappearance by Nymeria just in the nick of time to save Arya and I’ll be ecstatic.

      .

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    127. A Dornish Tyrell,
      Hello dearest Dornish Tyrell ! How you doin’ ?

      You know me, I can never resist the call of the fray 😉

      Yep, Cersei is now officially unleashed. She came here to love her children and blow shit up and she is all out of children (partly because of some people who gifted her a reptile in a pyramid…) We should brace ourselves. Bodies will hit the floor !

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    128. Between Dany being at Dragonstone and the title “Stormborn”, I hope this means we finally get the story of Dany’s birth told on the show. It was weird when I realized that we’ve never gotten that in any detail (or why she and Viserys were the only Targaryens left, what happened to her mother, etc.).

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    129. I’m entirely expecting an episode titled “The She-Wolves of Winterfell” around 5 or 6 and/or “A Time for Wolves” in 5,6, or 7. Entirely guesses, but who knows. 9 days. 9 long, long days. Until we have to wait another 7.

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    130. Ten Bears,

      The choir agrees! “a man’s gotta have a code”… I’m still laughing on that one. I hope Arya somehow gets a chance to meet up with the hound this season. “He was on her list….. he was not on her list anymore…”

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    131. Ellie,

      Yes, it’s the fandom that is the biggest problem to me, not Daenerys herself. I personally see Daenerys just as flawed as every other main characters. And I personally like most of GoT female characters… I admire Sansa’s internal strength, I enjoy Cersei, Melisandre, Olenna… and Cersei and Margaery among the deceased ones. I even enjoyed The Waif’s presence as an antagonist. As for Dany, I try to warm up to her but she somehow didn’t give me a reason to “root for her”. I don’t know, it could be the actress’ s performance, the way she delivers lines. When audience describes her as “badass”, I usually see her as arrogant and full of herself. And then I ask myself… why should I root for her? She should be a queen for.. why exactly? Because she’s a Targaryen? Her father was a madman who commited horrible acts, Targaryens seemed to suffer from god complex and believed how “pure” they were compared to other people… and Daenerys’s story is completely separate from the main one through the series. The smug face she carries on her face for so much time (especially S4)… that look seems “I’m better than everyone as I’m blood of the dragon” to me, her titles seem another proof of her being quite full of herself. The fact that she names herself “Queen of the Andals and the First Men” before even setting foot on Westeros… these are all traits I don’t like when it comes to people in general, speaking as a person who was often bullied and teased by peers due to my quiet and reserved nature in public as I really lack self-confidence in general. That’s why I enjoy Dany’s tender scenes the most and I’m not fan at all of her “badass” scenes… like I said above, she gave me no firm reason why I should root for her.

      I had a similar problem with a character in another TV series, utterly not being able to stand her for entire season due to her “I know all” attitude. But this character changed so much in later seasons, that I actually grew more fond of her. I still cannot stand her in that first season.

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    132. Sean C.:
      Between Dany being at Dragonstone and the title “Stormborn”, I hope this means we finally get the story of Dany’s birth told on the show.It was weird when I realized that we’ve never gotten that in any detail (or why she and Viserys were the only Targaryens left, what happened to her mother, etc.).

      Maybe Bran will have flashback about Dany’s birth?
      It would probably be the best way to tell it

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    133. Jon faces a “revolt” two episodes after being named King in the North? What the hell did they bother naming him King then if people are already ready to revolt? Manufactured drama while they stall for time at it’s finest.

      The episode titles are fine. They’re not all about Dany. They have a long history of titling episodes with double meanings. I can think of a few different things for each episode that are not all about Daenerys.

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    134. TargBlood:
      I also hope for less screen time for Jon, as he has gotten way too much since season 4, with almost 3 full episodes that were focused on him, but sadly it won’t happen…

      Huh. I’d be happy if it were all Jon all the time. Here’s to three more full episodes of him and then three more and three more. Then it’ll be over. Haha.

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    135. Cersei (Lena Headey) returns a gift.

      I had a feeling she wouldn’t like the dragonhead cuff links I sent her.

      Oh well, I’ll send them to Dany, and if she doesn’t like them she’ll melt them down and buy more ships. Our queen does love ships.

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    136. Lets just name the last episodes after each of my departed digits…and save the middle one for 7.7

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    137. Lord Parramandas:

      Haha, “The Door”… the biggest positive surprise to me when it came to the episode. I really did not expect such an incredible piece of GoT.

      I have to admit to being one of those people who thought The Door? Really? And it was, for me, one of the top 5 episodes ever.

      The reality is that now all characters (rather than most) are past the books, it must be harder and harder to try and come up with episode titles that both reflect the episode and don’t give away too much.

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    138. Just read this, it seems like all the titiles so far are referring to Dany and Cersei. I find it funny though how so much people claimed they knew the titles and were all wrong lol.

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    139. Dee Stark:

      So trueeee. But Bran and Arya are ma babiessss

      I do love all things Stark myself! And I love that Arya and Bran’s arcs haven’t been made as obvious as those of Jon and Sansa through the stills and trailers HBO have released. I want all my Starks in one place again, and I hope that happens at some point in the next 13 episodes. They all separated in 102, and I need them together again!!!!!

      But of all the main characters, I feel Sam is the one we’ve seen least of. I would need to check, but I think we’ve only seen stills of Sam – no footage in either trailer. That has me hoping his arc is spoilery as hell! But then, it could literally be what we’ve seen in the stills – Sam reading books.

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    140. Obviously my prediction that episode two would be entitled “Sam Tarly Kicks Decepticon Butt” was way off target.

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    141. Lord Parramandas:
      Ellie,

      Yes, it’s the fandom that is the biggest problem to me, not Daenerys herself. I personally see Daenerys just as flawed as every other main characters. And I personally like most of GoT female characters… I admire Sansa’s internal strength, I enjoy Cersei, Melisandre, Olenna… and Cersei and Margaery among the deceased ones. I even enjoyed The Waif’s presence as an antagonist. As for Dany, I try to warm up to her but she somehow didn’t give me a reason to “root for her”. I don’t know, it could be the actress’ s performance, the way she delivers lines. When audience describes her as “badass”, I usually see her as arrogant and full of herself. And then I ask myself… why should I root for her? She should be a queen for.. why exactly? Because she’s a Targaryen? Her father was a madman who commited horrible acts, Targaryens seemed to suffer from god complex and believed how “pure” they were compared to other people… and Daenerys’s story is completely separate from the main one through the series. The smug face she carries on her face for so much time (especially S4)… that look seems “I’m better than everyone as I’m blood of the dragon” to me, her titles seem another proof of her being quite full of herself. The fact that she names herself “Queen of the Andals and the First Men” before even setting foot on Westeros… these are all traits I don’t like when it comes to people in general, speaking as a person who was often bullied and teased by peers due to my quiet and reserved nature in public as I really lack self-confidence in general. That’s why I enjoy Dany’s tender scenes the most and I’m not fan at all of her “badass” scenes… like I said above, she gave me no firm reason why I should root for her.

      I agree 100%.

      I would also add that she is a manicheist. She killed her follower who killed the Harpy (and someone who kills those devoted to her doesn’t inspire devotion), crucified all masters without attempting to separate the guilty from the innocent and called it justice, let her dragons devour the leader of a great family just to scare the others into confessing, treated Hizdahr like shit when he was trying to do the best for the city and cooperating with her after she killed his father…
      For someone who talks a lot about justice, she has no idea what it means.

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    142. Lord Parramandas:
      Ellie,
      I had a similar problem with a character in another TV series, utterly not being able to stand her for entire season due to her “I know all” attitude. But this character changed so much in later seasons, that I actually grew more fond of her. I still cannot stand her in that first season.

      Out of curiosity, who are you talking about here?

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    143. Lord Parramandas,

      Just because u dont like Dany doesnt mean everyone else does. People have different opinions and thats what makes the GOT fandom so interesting. I don’t see EVERY fan of the story loving Dany. In fact, out of the 3 main characters (Jon, Tyrion and Dany), Dany is the one main character on the show that gets the MOST hate and criticism from fans. Heck even Jaime is less hated on than Dany. There is no reason for u to get annoyed with fans who like Dany. I personally am not a fan of Sansa or Arya. I am also quite neutral to Jon and Ned. The only Stark I really liked was Robb. The rest, I found dull tbh yet I dont go around criticizing people for loving them or rooting for them.

      As for the titles, Dany is one of the primary 3 characters on the show so its expected that she will be a major focus this season. However, the second title could refer to Euron while the 3rd is most likely about Cersei returning a gift to the Sandsnakes.

      Dany barely featured in the last trailer which was more focused on Sansa and Jon. Last season was also all about Sansa, Jon and Cersei. Dany only got 2-3 major scenes last season and that was it. I think its about time that we finally see more of her considering that she IS one of the 3 main characters of the story.

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    144. Lord Parramandas:
      Ellie,

      …she somehow didn’t give me a reason to “root for her”. I don’t know, it could be the actress’ s performance, the way she delivers lines. When audience describes her as “badass”, I usually see her as arrogant and full of herself. And then I ask myself… why should I root for her? She should be a queen for.. why exactly? Because she’s a Targaryen? Her father was a madman who commited horrible acts, Targaryens seemed to suffer from god complex and believed how “pure” they were compared to other people… and Daenerys’s story is completely separate from the main one through the series. The smug face she carries on her face for so much time (especially S4)… that look seems “I’m better than everyone as I’m blood of the dragon” to me, her titles seem another proof of her being quite full of herself. The fact that she names herself “Queen of the Andals and the First Men” before even setting foot on Westeros… these are all traits I don’t like when it comes to people in general,

      I agree with you, and my Second Wave feminist résumé goes back to the 1970s. Disliking Dany is not necessarily about feeling threatened by a ‘badass’ female leader. I had the exact same problem with the character of Stannis that I do with the character of Dany: People who feel ‘entitled’ irritate the heck out of me (partly on account of my having been married to one such for way too long, I suspect). I liked her all right in the beginning, when she was an underdog; but once she got into ‘take what is mine with fire and blood’ mode, she lost my sympathy altogether. (Some Photoshop genius should do a meme morphing Dany’s face with the seagulls yelling ‘Mine! Mine! Mine!’ in Finding Nemo.)

      Contrast her personality with, say, Davos: A large part of his charm lies in his humility. He is grateful for his preferment at Stannis’ hands and never takes it for granted. I’ll take the salt-of-the-Earth commoners over the aristocracy every time.

      Of course, the fact that the TV version cut out most of the parts of the books that dealt with the effects of the war on the smallfolk and focused mainly on the doings of the nobility means that we have a lot more of these entitled types to contemplate. And although I find the Dany chapters in the books among the dreariest to slog through, I think that the uninspired casting also plays a part in my lack of enthusiasm. I’m just not impressed with Emilia Clarke’s two-note acting (as nice a person as she may be in real life).

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    145. I’m so happy that one of the episode titles is Stormborn. Ever since I saw someone suggest that for an episode title during this long wait for S7 I thought that it would be so perfect. Also, I can’t believe that the wait is almost over!

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    146. Firannion, Lord Parramandas

      I agree with both of you. I am a law student, a feminist, a woman trying to fight for the underdog . . . and I just never clicked with Emilia Clark’s interpretation of the character. And there are a few (notice I am not throwing all of you under the bus) but a few very loud Dany supporters that will write you off as an angry bitter shrew for not idolizing her. ( I was once told if I lost weight I would be able to see Dany’s appeal, inferring the only reason someone would not like her was selfish jealousy that I don’t look that good naked) I just think Dany is an entitled immature individual.

      also personally I don’t think Ms. Clark has the range to do the character justice. {It is my tinfoil theory that after the fiasco of “where are my dragons” and the negative critical reviews that followed in season 2 D+D just decided to neuter the character to some form of “misunderstood Fire Elsa”. to accommodate her range} and yes I know she has had multiple Emmy nominations but I still think she has three acting faces and having family in the theater I have been unable to take her seriously since season 1 really.

      But to those who like her, I am happy for you. my life would be easier if I did. Keep liking her, but I just can’t and that does not mean I am a bad person, just an unlucky one since it seams D+D will keep killing my favorites to make room in the budget to pay for Ms. Clark’s salary.

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    147. It’s just hard to like Emilia Clarke when you have a show with Lena Headey, Peter Dinklage, NCW, Charles Dance, Alfie Allen and Diana Rigg, among others.

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    148. No mention of Paul Kaye , but should be there.
      So season 6 they never explained, did they?, what happened to Anguy?
      Philip McGinley is not listed for season 7 either?

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    149. Three down and four to go. Which reminds me, apparently the episode numbers come from Entertainment Weekly. But shouldn’t they be 7.01, 7.02, and 7.03? Might James HIbberd have forgotten his maths?!?!?

      IMO, the titles are appropriate but blase’. I prefer titles with poetry, metaphor, enigma but which encompass many stories within the episode. For example, Second Sons has stories about many second sons. Two Swords starts with the re-forging of Ice into two swords but it’s also about a lost Stark sword and a found one (Needle). The Night Lands, Kissed by Fire, MOther’s Mercy–all intriguing and all pertinent to several characters. My guesses for the remaining four this season:

      7.04–Field of Fire or something having to do with fire.
      7.05–The Fellowship.
      7.06–Ice and Fire. Or The Dead.
      7.07–Either The Fall or A Time for Wolves.

      Luka and others have said The Fall too. If the Wall falls, it will surely be then. Also, I think Littlefinger and maybe are riding for a fall as well. The other title speaks for itself.

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    150. “Daenerys Targaryen has finally set sail for Westeros with her armies, dragons ..”
      She seemed to have a navy 100 times bigger than any in Westerous.
      Seems KL would just throw in the towel seeing that!

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    151. “Carice van Houten (Melisandre)”
      I am infinity curious to what Mel’s story is.
      I am guessing the threat to Westerous by the White-Others-Walkers (whatever the hell the show wants to call them). Will Varys join in with her?
      Mel leave before Davos arrives?

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    152. Uoanuns,

      Like I said in one comment above, it’s the manner that usually bothers me, not the fact that people like Dany. And as I said in another comment, I’m not a Dany hater and I could list several scenes I really like, especially those in S6. But I’m not that much of a fan… as much as I try to warm up to her, her character doesn’t give me “the feelings”. As for general fandom, I usually avoid most of GoT sites but on those rare occasions I visited official FB site, the comment sections were full of endless praise… well, I don’t know what is the current situation, but even my friend from LFU group, who hasn’t even watched GoT yet, noticed how she appears everywhere and she mentioned to me that some praise-comments make her roll her eyes.
      I do try my best to try to like her… but it’s mostly limited to S1 and S6 for me, with a bit of S5 as well.

      Firannion,

      Considering that we usually never agree on the site, I’m glad we found a bit of common tongue on this subject. Yes, speaking against “strong women” and you’re immediately proclaimed a sexist (especially when being a male). It happened to me in LFU group when I wrote a comment why I cannot warm up to a certain female character… again I suspect that my main issue in that case as well was the actress’s performance, combined with personality I don’t like when it comes to people. Well, that person did shut up when I listed him a series of female characters from many TV series and movies, GoT included. And of course I’m the admin there and it’s not clever to mess with me…😄😄 (Just kidding on this last part… we never kicked anyone for having a different opinion, and we aim to be friendly to the members).

      The original Stargaryen,

      I see Daenerys as flawed character like everyone else… she’s just one of the many main characters in the series, part of the story, not “the story itself”. There are moments of her I really like, there are moments that I don’t like, there are moments that don’t make me feel anything. But I’m not “rooting” for her, merely observe the part she has in the story and try to see her journey as a character, the progression and regression she achieved.

      BigMac,

      She’s very different from Daenerys but I’m talking about Juliet Burke from LOST. My No.6 character from the series, my second favorite female character from the series but god, I really cannot stand her through entire S3 when she got introduced. A “strong female character” for sure, but not a character I would admire.

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    153. Tessa-Rose Davidson,

      In my opinion the actress is the best in tender scenes when she shows her vulnerable side… but when it comes to “power scenes”, I somehow cannot warm up to her. I don’t know… but I believe the performance could be the reason.

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    154. Lord Parramandas,
      Well, I think it’s a matter of personal preferences. For me, in particular, if I had to choose my Top 3 favorites characters I would say Dany, Tyrion and Jon. That been said, my personal choice for the most qualified ruler is Daenerys.

      why should I root for her? She should be a queen for.. why exactly? Because she’s a Targaryen?
      Well, the Targaryen were the ones who “created ” the Iron Throne and united the 7K, and as any monarchy, the title of King/Queen is past by birth right. Plus, the Targaryen had held the throne for centuries, Robert was called “The Usurper” for a reason. Having the right family name, as Varys said, is important, but not a reason to like a character.

      Her father was a madman who commited horrible acts
      She knows what her father was, she doesn’t fool herself, but she can not be held responsable for her father’s acts. And, lets be honest, Tywin, Robert, Balon Grayjoy, Stannis etc they have all done terrible things, actually there are very few characters at this point who have not done horrible things. The Targaryen are always accused to be all mad, but they have had as many terrible kings as wonderful ones (Actually, Aegon I was considered by many as the best king the 7K have ever had, and in many ways Daenerys path is very similar to him, more than any other of her ancestors)

      Targaryens seemed to suffer from god complex and believed how “pure” they were compared to other people…

      The “pure” line comes from a Valyrian tradition, not just the Targaryen. I see it as a tradition, not a god complex. And through the years many houses married Targaryens- Rhaegar, for instance, married a Martell.

      Daenerys’s story is completely separate from the main one through the series. The smug face she carries on her face for so much time (especially S4)… that look seems “I’m better than everyone as I’m blood of the dragon”
      Her story is separeted because she was exiled, there was no way she would have been able to start her long journey, learning how to be a ruler in Westeros.

      She started with nothing, she was a scared girl, running from one place to the other in orther to survive (Viserys was called the beggar King), was abused by her brother, sold and bought, raped, finally having some kind of happiness only to lose everything again (her husband, her son). Her childhood and the things she went through in the first season is what makes her sympathize with the “common people” and specially the slaves (she knows first hand what it means to be sold and brought). Even when she was a khaleesi, she didnt like the way women and slaves were mistreated, in her final speech in S1 she said the ones who stayed by her side would do it as brothers and sister, husband and wives, she wanted to make things better.
      From there she went from wanted to rush to get the Iron Throne, to understand that first she had to learn how to rule (“how can I rule seven kingdoms if I can’t control a single city?”).
      She has a temper (that does not make her mad) she can be ruthless with her enemies, but she was at war, and fighting for a noble cause. She learned to listen before act, understood she can’t always have it her way and in her position difficult decisions sometimes need to be made, even if she didn’t like them. So many people say she is obsessed with the throne, but forget how many things she has sacrificed for the greater good that actually put her away from Westeros and the throne (she was fully committed to ending slavery,she chained her own dragons, married someone she loathed, reopended the fighting pits, etc).

      I enjoy Dany’s tender scenes the most and I’m not fan at all of her “badass” scenes
      I also enjoy those scenes the most too, because it shows that beneath that hard or “smug” exterior, she has a good heart and remains vulnerable despite that mask she puts on to deal with her enemies.

      I think she is the best ruler because she has years of learning how to rule, understands what it means to be a Queen, not just power, not just a pretty crown, she has her priorities stright.
      She has gone through many phases over the years, from a shy and frightened girl, to a strong leader, from ruthless with her enemies and temperamental to conciliatory. I think she is in a good place now.

      P.S: english is not my first language, sorry if I misspelled much.

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    155. I’m expecting this to be more like a traditional TV season, with an “A” plot (Dany & co vs Cersei & “friends”) and a “B” plot (Winterfell internal politics). That logic suggests the two plots will intersect by season’s end, but the “A” plot will get most of the time and attention.

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    156. Ellie,

      Aegon I may have been a good king (although it’s debatable when it comes to Dorne) but he still came to Westeros and proclaimed himself a king, forcing everyone to submit to his rule and killing thousands of people who rebelled against him. That’s something I don’t admire at all. I don’t like when people feel more worthy… and I’m disgusted by Targaryen’s incest practice, another reason why I don’t ship Dany/Jon (to think some people even approve their relationship because the blood has to “remain pure). It’s a proof of their feeling for superiority. Targaryens conquered the Kingdoms and Robert conquered the Kingdoms when a madman was ruling it… Robert was no less worthy of a throne in my opinion, and I don’t see why Dany should be “the one” for the throne. Also, Rhaegar married a Martell only because he had no siblings. Daenerys as a character gave me no reason to root for her as I don’t like her screen presence in most of the cases… there is a wall between her and me in most cases and I don’t watch GoT to see her suceed. Her character gives me zero “feelings” compared to many others, with only two scenes being remotely close to that.

      And hiding a tender side behind a smug exterior… a character has to give me a reason to like them while I’m watching the show and Dany gives me little to none. And that smug exterior is still present on screen, something I really don’t like when it comes to people in general.

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    157. Boojam: Anguy

      Good old Anguy! I’d forgotten about that lovable lug. Here’s hoping he’s in the fight scene seen in the second trailer.

      Maybe him and the Hound will bond amidst the carnage and afterwards open a quaint little B&B together. But there I go fan-ficting again. 😉

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    158. Lord Parramandas: I admire Sansa’s internal strength, I enjoy Cersei, Melisandre, Olenna… and Cersei and Margaery among the deceased ones. I even enjoyed The Waif’s presence as an antagonist. As for Dany, I try to warm up to her but she somehow didn’t give me a reason to “root for her”. I don’t know, it could be the actress’ s performance, the way she delivers lines. When audience describes her as “badass”, I usually see her as arrogant and full of herself. And then I ask myself… why should I root for her? She should be a queen for.. why exactly? Because she’s a Targaryen? Her father was a madman who commited horrible acts, Targaryens seemed to suffer from god complex and believed how “pure” they were compared to other people… and Daenerys’s story is completely separate from the main one through the series. The smug face she carries on her face for so much time (especially S4)… that look seems “I’m better than everyone as I’m blood of the dragon” to me, her titles seem another proof of her being quite full of herself. The fact that she names herself “Queen of the Andals and the First Men” before even setting foot on Westeros…

      These criticisms are funny coming from a Sansa fan. Let’s see, Dany is arrogant, full of herself and has a smug face? How about Sansa last season who went around arrogantly demanding that Lord Glover fight for her and her smug face in every scene acting as if she knows better than anyone else?

      Westeros is Dany’s home – from where she had to flee because the Lannisters,Starks and Baratheons slaughtered her family, including little babies, and would have killed her as well. She has every right to reclaim her home just as Starks reclaimed Winterfell.

      So what if Dany’s story is completely separate from the main story? So was Jon’s. These are main characters that the story is moulding into leaders and rulers.

      You admire Sansa’s internal strength, but her hardships are nothing compared to what Dany has gone through – to spend her entire childhood with an abusive brother hiding from assassins, getting sold to the Dothraki, getting raped, losing a child and a husband – that she was able to overcome all those by herself and get to where she is by actively working on her goals shows her immense strength of mind.

      But of course, Sansa fans like to dismiss characters like Dany and Jon as being uninteresting, ignore their complex character dynamics and story arcs as being boring because it’s not part of the main story.

      Acting? Emilia Clarke is a decent actress and she is pretty damn good in giving inspiring speeches and carrying entire conversations in made up fake languages. Sophie Turner’s monotonous, petulant tone last season pretty much ruined all the scenes up North for me. So acting is also pretty much subjective.

      We are going to see more complaints from a certain section of Sansa fans as the story moves back to focus on the important characters – Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Jaime, Cersei, Arya – all the promotion this season and last season may have mistakenly given some fans the impression that the story revolves around Sansa – no it does not.

      Of course the first few episodes are going to be named based on Dany’s return to Westeros – fans have been waiting for this for nearly 20 years! It’s the event of the year! She’s finally here and that’s cause for celebration in itself.

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    159. The original Stargaryen: innoc

      This. You nailed it.

      Dany is a dangerous megalomaniac at this point. She crucifies innocents, she burns people alive and enjoys it, she keeps wanting to destroy cities and slaughter people until Tyrion reigns her in.

      She murdered all the Dothraki leaders, burned down their sacred temple and destroyed their power structure. What’s going to happen if/when she conquers Westeros ? She’ll obviously stay there, and presumably the Dothraki will go back to Essos to be with their families. Who will lead them then ? She completely up-ended their society so that they could go die for her in a foreign war.

      What about Slaver’s Bay ? She just went in, changed everything, and now she expects Daario to somehow create a democratic system out of the ashes she’s left behind ? Realistically speaking, the social unrest and chaos would be unending.

      She’s a terrible ruler, and a cruel, vicious woman.

      People who think she’s a great leader are delusional. The only thing she’s good at is giving rousing speeches and killing.

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    160. Tessa-Rose Davidson: But to those who like her, I am happy for you. my life would be easier if I did. Keep liking her, but I just can’t and that does not mean I am a bad person, just an unlucky one since it seams D+D will keep killing my favorites to make room in the budget to pay for Ms. Clark’s salary.

      Did Emilia killed your dog or something? She is not playing Rose or Shae, is Daenerys Targaryen one of the main characters of the book/show… you make it sound like Richard Madden, Charles Dances, etc lose their job because they have to pay Emilia WTF!

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    161. Ellie,

      Having years of experience ruling doesn’t automatically make you a good ruler. Walder Frey, Joffrey, Cersei, and others also had power for years.

      The point is that Dany’s decisions have been poor for years, and she hasn’t improved. On the contrary, she’s embraced the Targaryen motto of fire and blood more than ever.

      Dany was a good person for the first three seasons, now not so much.

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    162. SerNoName,

      You make many good points, but I think the answer is somewhere in between the two positions.

      BOTH Sansa and Dany have become insufferable and smug. It’s not a matter of one of them being good and righteous and the other being arrogant and misguided.

      They have both been acting pretty arrogant and misguided.

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    163. Markus Stark: This. You nailed it.

      Dany is a dangerous megalomaniac at this point. She crucifies innocents, she burns people alive and enjoys it, she keeps wanting to destroy cities and slaughter people until Tyrion reigns her in.

      She murdered all the Dothraki leaders, burned down their sacred temple and destroyed their power structure. What’s going to happen if/when she conquers Westeros ? She’ll obviously stay there, and presumably the Dothraki will go back to Essos to be with their families. Who will lead them then ? She completely up-ended their society so that they could go die for her in a foreign war.

      What about Slaver’s Bay ? She just went in, changed everything, and now she expects Daario to somehow create a democratic system out of the ashes she’s left behind ? Realistically speaking, the social unrest and chaos would be unending.

      She’s a terrible ruler, and a cruel, vicious woman.

      People who think she’s a great leader are delusional. The only thing she’s good at is giving rousing speeches and killing.

      Wow! What a load of nonsense! What show have you been watching?

      Markus Stark:
      SerNoName,

      BOTH Sansa and Dany have become insufferable and smug. It’s not a matter of one of them being good and righteous and the other being arrogant and misguided.

      They have both been acting pretty arrogant and misguided.

      I am guessing you are a Jon fan? Lol!

      Poor Dany is going to get it this season from angry Jon fans who want all the focus to be on their KITN, angry Queen in the North Sansa fans who want the show to be all about Sansa’s rise to power because of her amazing internal strength, Jon x Sansa shippers who are going to lose it when Jon and Dany make eyes at each other.

      I am preparing to enjoy all the bitter tears! Sorry guys, but Dany is a main character, she is one of the good guys, she is a protagonist and now that she is finally in Westeros – we are going to get a lot more of her – If I am guessing I would say that Dany will have the most screen time this season.

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    164. Well I do have to say I enjoy the tears of salty Dany haters. There’s just something particular about the female characters in this series (particularly Sansa, Dany, and poor dead Catelyn). ITs like…. why do people feel the need to whine just because there are Dany centric episode titles or interviews with sophie? Grow up.

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    165. Lord Parramandas,

      Well, it’s not as if Aegon woke up one morning and said “Hey, I’m gonna conquer Westeros because of reasons”. There is a whole story behind his decision, that you apparently didn’t read (I recommend “The world of ice and fire”, if you are interested in knowing the reasons).
      Every House in Westeros think they are the most worthy, that is why they are always at war.
      Incest was a pretty common practice for important families in Westeros (Tywin was married to his cousin, for instance), so I see no problem with Daenerys/Jon.
      Robert was a terrible king, so yes, Daenerys is way more worthty.
      Obviously you have a blind hate for Daenerys, so I’ll leave you to it.
      For my part, I can’t wait to see more about Dany this season.

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    166. Lord Parramandas,

      Your hypocrisy is hilarious. Weren’t you the one on a thread last week, of Sophie spewing D&D baseless fanfic in an interview, complaining about people’s negativity? Making such a fuss about it, you stated you had never seen such hatred and it was really concerning to you…

      Now here you are on a thread complaining about Dany. Go figure. So is it only ok for you to post complaints about the characters you don’t like while the rest of us need our Game of Thrones fandom cards revoked for complaining about the weakest link in the show??? If that ain’t the pot calling the kettle black, I don’t know what is…

      Anyway, it seems like you’re a fan just like the rest of us. You have characters you like and dislike and apparently you dislike some of the decisions the show runners make as well. But don’t worry, I’m sure that all of the show titles don’t refer to Dany alone. We have 2 queens in Westeros now and maybe both will be delivering some justice. And who knows, maybe there will be a parallel between the justices they hand out that might show Dany may be just as cold and ruthless as Cersei.

      And don’t forget in Euron’s first scene on the show, he said “I am the storm” (definitely his best line of dialogue and a badass intro of him balancing on the bridge without grabbing the ropes as it swayed). So episode 2 title may be more about him than just about Dany alone? As for “Dragonstone”, I’m guessing it’s mostly referring to Dany but Jon could also mention it as a place to go get dragon glass. So it could have multiple references as well.

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    167. Karenchasez,

      I admit my words were a bit over dramatic from what I was trying to say. its difficult to explain directly but as one of my friends explained

      “imagine if Imelda Staunton, the lady who plays Umbridge in Harry Potter, could not quite cut it as a bad guy so they killed off Mcgonagall and gave Umbridge all her lines, then had all the people Umbridge was supposed to kill, (although I don’t remember her killing anyone directly) die early so she would not have to kill them and to give Prof. Umbrigonagall more screen time”

      “Then all of your friends who have not read the books keep talking about how awesome of a headmistress Umbridge is (because she took Mcgonagall’s part)”

      Professor Trelawney and the Weisly’s and all the other minor characters Umbridge terrorized might not seem all that important to the story but it would still stink if you had a soft spot for those minor characters and those actors lost their job so someone could do an “alternative facts” version of the Character she has been assigned.

      once again its difficult to explain, and I don’ hate her its more just I do not trust her with the character and I would prefer watching other story lines. And apparently the Tyrell’s were killed to give other characters more screen time and as of now who looks like the person who got the lions share of that vacated screen time?

      If I were queen for a day there would be a rule “write everyone elses story lines first then when that is done write Dany’s, and make her as nice and stoic as you want, without effecting the other story lines”

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    168. Dany’s visitor is probably Davos, sent by Jon to negotiate the North’s submission to Dany’s rule in exchange for help in fighting the White Walkers

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    169. I’m surprised that there has not been much speculation as to the possibility of Cercei literally giving a gift back to the giver. (Beyond those dragon cuff links) I’m not sure that it’s any more likely than a euphemism for revenge, but it could be her returning something offered to her by Euron as part of a marriage proposal. I am assuming that will be her ally going forward, but marriage to Euron seems like a risky bet, and Cercei may not be as clever as she thinks she is, but she is power hungry and not stupid (well, except for the thing with the HS and the FM…) At the same time, why would she refuse a marriage to him in the same episode that Jaime wizenes up?

      The other thing that interests me is the possibility of the unexpected visitor to Dany being

      the false Dragon or whatever he is called

      . It could also easily be the Sandsnakes, Lady Olenna or Varys.

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    170. Queenofthrones,

      We all know the real reason behind that hate: Jon Snow.
      Daenerys being his potential first real consensual relationship? Must be butchered!
      Sansa taking the spotlight and having a disagreement with Jon? Must be taken down!
      Sophie giving an opinion that doesn’t paint a halo in Jon’s head? Kill her at sight!

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    171. Lol, did a post about episode titles really turn into a Dany/Emilia bashing thread merely because some people think the titles are too Dany centric?? I know it shouldn’t surprise me but holy s***! 😂😂😂
      Last season she had one title named after her and it was an episode that hardly even featured her (Blood of My Blood). They’re just titles…

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    172. Markus Stark:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      So, what happened to there being no titles this year ? I thought they were going to be called “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc….

      Maybe you’ll finally chill out now.

      I second that 😉

      It was pretty obvious that the episode titles (not only the first, but the second and third also!) would finally be revealed. Quite why Jack Bauer 24 got so wound up over this beats me 😉

      TBH, it wouldn’t have bothered me if they were just called ‘Episode 1 – 2 – 3’ etc. More info is gleaned from the brief description HBO give than from the episode title.

      So Jack, you can finally chill out without pissing off the Mods and many other people on WotW with your endless posts about the lack of episode titles 😀

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    173. Tessa-Rose Davidson,

      Imagine if Harry Potter took your favorite nerd Hermione, filled with awkwardness, bad hair, buck teeth, and an overeagerness to be the brainiest person in the room and turned her into a glamourpuss superstar with amazing hair and ridiculous badassery, giving her all of Ron’s lines whenever he happened to have particular insight into the wizarding world? And no one knew what you meant by a Hermione Hair Day?

      Oh, back on topic, right? I hope Ed Sheeran is playing Ron Weasley. He looks just like Ron, especially here. 😉

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    174. Ginevra,

      Exactly, you don’t necessarily hate Emma Watson you just wish the people doing the adapting would stop playing favorites and turning the story into their own high budget fan fic (which I admit D+D have more a reason to do since the books are not finished)

      also I have always found it a bit strange that Emilia Clark used to always say she loved “devouring” the books and “sinking her teeth into the character” when hate it or love it she definitely plays a character quite different than the book character.

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    175. One thing that is missing, Dany seems to have no Dothraki inner circle person. Without Daario , there is no Dothraki ‘captain’ (even tho Darrio was not Dothraki).
      Neither Ornela or Qhono (I think that’s the guy) who were at Dany’s feet in episode 4 show up again in S6. Even tho one should have been in that Dothraki mass in E6.
      They seemed the closest Dothraki left, at least the befriended Ornela.

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    176. Lorie:
      The articles’ ‘returning cast members’ list forgot to mention Gemma Whelan (Yara Greyjoy).

      Just sayin’

      Well that has done that before with main line characters , odd since indications are that Yara as a character has as large a role this season as she had in 6 if not more.

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    177. Jay Targ:
      Lol, did a post about episode titles really turn into a Dany/Emilia bashing thread merely because some people think the titles are too Dany centric?? I know it shouldn’t surprise me but holy s***! 😂😂😂

      Yes it did. Incredible. Emilia Clarke is such a delightful, funny, and down to earth young woman. I have no problem with her acting. If anyone has a problem with her dialogue, she didn’t write it. And personally, I enjoy her scenes in which she’s speaking in High Valyrian or Dothraki.

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    178. Of course this turned out to be a dany/Emilia bashing thread ..

      Tessa-Rose Davidson,

      Ginevra,

      And when did something Like that happened with dany ..
      Do provide some of the lines that dany stole from other characters …or screentime which she stole from other characters …

      That was one of the most ridiculous comparison I have ever seen..

      If I were queen for a day there would be a rule “write everyone elses story lines first then when that is done write Dany’s, and make her as nice and stoic as you want, without effecting the other story lines”

      And then we will come and complain that dany story is isolated and boring and it will be interesting when she interacts with other storylines and characters …
      But then when she she do we will complain about how she is being given more screentime and salary ..
      What ever the show does we will complaint because we hate the character and actress blindly and will not even raise the issue of poor writing decisions that actually impact the portrayal…

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    179. dragonbringer,

      I wasn’t bashing. The point I was attempting to make is that no adaptation is perfect. We all see characters and the stories differently, you and I especially so, Dragonbringer, and so it only makes sense that D&D interpret the stories differently as well. I think we should give them a great deal of latitude, which is not to say I won’t lament some losses, but all in all, I think they are doing such an unbelievably awesome job.

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    180. Lord Parramandas: But honestly, Dany invading the 7 kingdoms is the driving force of this season… Its going to be the main event by which most plot threads are built from.

      Honestly the real driving force for this season is the Great War. The war against the dead. Yes I am thrilled to see Danny finally get to Westeros but don’t forget what is really important. Winter is here.

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    181. Flayed Potatoes,

      Iam fine..thank you just had few works to take care of..

      Its very clever of the show runners…

      Always give dany a scene wher she gives speech and people following her and have a guy kneel to her …and have episode title named after her and give a scene at the end of the episode…

      Then you can do all the butchering to that character but no one will notice that because people will think and complian that dany gets more popular and screentime and badass speeches and episode titles and blah blah

      What happened to all the decisions and ruling that showed dany as intelligent and capable despite being put in a situation you can’t win and prone to make mistakes…. Sure we will give those to tyrion because he is the smartest guy in the planet and
      Justify it by saying
      ” you are a conqueror and not a ruler”

      And what happens when it cones to conquering..tyrion will again go ” oye,didn’t you get the memo …you just have to act like what I say even during a conquest because iam the brain something you doesn’t have…otherwise I will use the aerys card again and people will think you are mad as your father ” …

      And it wouldn’t even be irritating or annoying for us dany fans it stopped right there. …no just no we have to come and see the complaint of dany is perfect and snowflake and stealing other characters lines and screentime and getting preferences from the producers so that other characters like tyrion playing second fiddle to her…when every thing that happens is opposit of that ..

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    182. Ellie: We all know the real reason behind that hate: Jon Snow.

      Lol now the thread includes bashing Jon. Who else do we want to add. Calm down people it is a show relax.

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    183. Ginevra,

      Ia not saying you were doing the bashing. ..

      But I did ask you can you point out when something similar like you mentioned with Emma Watson and Hermione actually happened to dany or Emilia Clarke. ..

      I can present you the number of times peter dinklage and ian glen had taken lines and story arcs of dany and Emilia because they are most prominent and senior actors …
      Ian glen and jorah is most notable when it comes to the books and show…

      Can you do the same for Emilia and dany ..

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    184. dragonbringer: What ever the show does we will complaint because we hate the character and actress blindly

      Why is it necessary to polarize to this degree? Why can’t you accept the possibility that Dany is not a favorite character for some readers/viewers, without leaping to the extreme conclusion that such readers/viewers ‘hate her blindly’? Lord Parramandas gave some some pretty solid reasons why he hasn’t warmed to the character. I gave some as well. Doesn’t mean that we’re ‘haters,’ or that our lack of appreciation for your personal favorite is irrational or mean. Everybody enjoys different things about the story.

      Because I have in past seasons enjoyed Dany’s screentime less, for the most part, than the Westerosi part of the storyline, I am admittedly among those feeling a little nervous about the possibility of the last two seasons being overly (for my tastes) focused on her. Time will tell if those trepidations are warranted or not. Perhaps I will enjoy Dany better when she is interacting with characters in whom I am more emotionally invested. I’ve already liked her scenes with Tyrion, but that’s mainly because Tyrion is one of MY favorites. I can ignore Emilia’s acting, which I find limited, and focus on Peter’s, which I find superb.

      Really, this doesn’t need to come down to flame wars over whose favorite character (or actor) is the best. We each enjoy different things. I wish you joy of your additional time with Dany/Emilia this season. But I am entitled to my tastes and feelings too. I’ve said it before here, and I’ll say it again: There’s room in this sandbox for all of us geeky kids.

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    185. Lord Parramandas,

      And you get upset when sansa or Sophie gets hate …the hypocrisy in your posts is unbelievable..

      Dany getting Overwhelming love from the fandom..which fandom in LFU lol …wake up and if you go see any ASoiaF/GoT fandom you will see dany is most hated or one of the most hated even villains of this show is not hated that much …

      Some flawless character – you know what’s best in this complaint especially …people usually say how dany is flawless and then go on to point out her mistakes and flaws in the show…i guess thats why the show runners and actors and characters in her storyline keep criticizing and questioning her to her face. ..

      at least some characters have stark name as their last name to get more fans and to be perceived as good …I wonder dany being the most loved and flawless character is what that makes her most divisive character in the story

      I guess that’s also why she gets so much less lines and screentime even than that of say oberyn and hound and other secondary characters …

      What’s so surprising and scaring that one of the major protagonists getting more screentime or episode titles ..

      You know what let’s see what actually happened in the past

      Mhysa – last 3 to 4 mins of the episode ..
      Breaker of the chains – again last 5 mins of the episode…
      Blood of my blood – again another 3 to 4 minutes of the episode …

      You and others really should really be scared by this …

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    186. Jaehaerys the Icedragon,

      I expect Dragonstone to be discussed by Jon quite a bit in the first episode as that’s the only know place to have an abundant supply of dragonglass.

      In fact, him wanting to go to Dragonstone might be the reason for the revolt that’s mentioned in the episode 2 synopsis, even though “revolt” might be too strong a word.

      All the three titles, while obviously relating to Dany, have multiple meanings.

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    187. dragonbringer: wake up and if you go see any ASoiaF/GoT fandom you will see dany is most hated or one of the most hated even villains of this show is not hated that much …

      This is going over the line into paranoia, I’m afraid. It really, truly does not serve the tone of the discussion for people to get into ‘one-downsmanship’ arguments over whose favorite is the most persecuted character on the show.

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    188. Ellie,

      Of all the people hating on Dany in this thread, not one is a Jon fan. Please stop with such generalisations. It’s the automatic reaction of so many Dany fans. The moment she faces any criticism, legitimate or otherwise, blame it on crazy Jon fans.

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    189. Firannion: Why is it necessary to polarize to this degree?Why can’t you accept the possibility that Dany is not a favorite character for some readers/viewers, without leaping to the extreme conclusion that such readers/viewers ‘hate her blindly’? Lord Parramandas gave some some pretty solid reasons why he hasn’t warmed to the character. I gave some as well. Doesn’t mean that we’re ‘haters,’ or that our lack of appreciation for your personal favorite is irrational or mean.Everybody enjoys different things about the story.

      What we are trying to point out is that comments like this are pretty rich coming from a poster like Lord Parramandas who jumps into discussions about Sansa and tries to mute any criticism of the character by calling other posters ‘haters’ . It’s funny that when the discussion is about the Dany, he/she is the first person to jump in with the ‘hate’ – the hypocrisy is what is being highlighted.

      Lord Parramandas is disgruntled that the first 3 episode title appears to be about Dany. Why? Dany is one of the important characters in the show and her arrival in Westeros after 6 seasons, 5 books and 20 years is surely something that should be highlighted? Lord Parramandas instead wants more focus on Sansa because he/she finds Sansa to be the more interesting character – these things are subjective opinions as I point out above. Many viewers find Dany equally interesting.

      As for criticisms about Dany being arrogant, entitled, smug etc.? – Well that was pretty much Sansa all of last season. So criticizing Dany for all these attributes and then calling anyone a ‘hater’ for daring to call Sansa the same? Reeks of hypocrisy.

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    190. dragonbringer:

      You know what let’s see what actually happened in the past

      Mhysa – last 3 to 4 mins of the episode ..
      Breaker of the chains – again last 5 mins of the episode…
      Blood of my blood – again another 3 to 4 minutes of the episode …

      You and others really should really be scared by this …

      LOL! This!
      If I were someone who didn’t enjoy Dany’s storyline, I’d be looking forward to the episodes that are named after her; at least I’d know to turn off my tv 5 minutes ahead of time.

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    191. SerNoName,

      I really don’t see the point of perpetuating ad hominem arguments here. We all have different preferences and are fully entitled to them. We should each be able to make a case for our point of view without the discussion instantly degenerating into overgeneralization and trying to stick each other into pigeonholes. The world is a more interesting place for being full of a rich diversity of tastes and opinions, in my view. Those of us who aren’t keen on Dany are ‘entitled’ to such an opinion – as are, equally, those who aren’t keen on Sansa or Jon or whomever. Not enjoying a particular character or characterization does not make a person a ‘hater,’ and it disturbs me when the rhetoric drops to that level.

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    192. Firannion,

      Because its exactly what it it is…

      And I didn’t respond to your comment or lord parramendas comment right when you are pointing out those things. ..I was going to respond to your comments but you got ahead of me ..I will come to your comments in the next comment…

      Your critcisms which by the way also my criticism of the show and writers for not doing the same thing And rather than telling us dany is worthy ruler and leader show us like they do in the books …

      Do you remember last years conversation where you used to single me out and ignore the comment which I was actually replying to…
      Again I see you are doing the same thing labelling me as someone who can’t take criticisms and not being OK with my favorite character doesn’t get all the love…
      But you are not speaking aginst the comment which I was actually replying to…
      If you say that was a fair criticism that characters gets killed of so that Emilia can get their pay and have her stealing the storyoines or lines from other characters.then more power to you. ..

      I don’t care dany is hated in the story ..but I do find its ridiculous people pointing out the flaws and mistakes and then sayshe is most flawless and snowhite of all characters …
      I do find it ridiculous that people say I should be understandable and Accept that dany is not loved by everyone but why shouldn’t the same people understand that not everyone dislike or hate dany and there are people who like the character…why act as all surprised …
      I do find its ridiculous that people say she is entitled when everyone in the story is entitled..sansa feels entitled to winterfell and tyrion feels entitled to casterly rock ..and the same way dany feels entitled to westeros…why even start a series about monarchy and wars between those ruling families if they don’t like entitlement…

      Like you say there are room for everyone in this story …if you don’t like then just skip the thing you don’t like and ignore it..
      Especially if you don’t like it when its happening towards your favorite because I expect them to be more understanding and ignore and not do the exact thing for other character and actor they don’t like ..

        Quote  Reply

    193. Firannion,

      Maybe iam paranoid but I do see the places of the fandom and polls conducted in those places from westeros to watchers to winter is coming to reddit to 4chan to youtube to back me up …what do you have to prove me wrong….

      I just like how you always try to play a fair judge but always target those who only like dany but completely gloss over the comments which they are actually replying to..I have never seen you say something against those who make ridiculous comments at dany/Emilia ..no one is saying dany/emilia should be loved by all and how dare you can have a difereent opinion or dislike dany or hate her ….its not us who expressed the surprise at the love dany/Emilia gets..so maybe you should tell the others people will have different opinion and you can’t express surprise that there are people who actually love dany and like it or not she is the one of the major protagonists so she should likely get some screentime and focus due to that fact…
      Maybe you can use her screentime for bathroom breaks and other stuffs and let those people who enjoy the scenes actually enjoy it ..

      SerNoName,

      Exactly …

      Jay Targ,

      I know right??? Sounds like such a easy and simple thing to do …

        Quote  Reply

    194. Wolfish:
      Ser Josh,

      People will fight tooth-and-nail for land they consider “theirs” in the face of overwhelming odds against them. Many Westerosi will not view Daenerys’s arrival as her homecoming, but rather, as Targaryen Invasion 2.0.

      Maybe people are looking exactly for something like this …you know someone with a power who can stop all this endless civil wars and tearing up the realm so swiftly …

      People are already fighting for what’s theirs ..their lands are being destroyed and fields are burned ….raping and pillaging is done by almost every army from starks to lannisters…remember those soldiers that brienne killed ..
      There is nothing dany to steal here because she already has most of her resources from essos…

      Daenerys’s military force might appear unstoppable, but remember: She is not there just to conquer. She is not there just to subdue the population, extract resources, and send riches elsewhere. She is planning on settling in Westeros and ruling it. She will not be able to do so (not for long, anyway) if all she has to offer is “fire and blood.”

      Again it depends upon the situation…. To me fire and blood is exactly what is needed to westeros right now. …I would have been more critical of dany conquering westeros when the series started and the state of westeros back then…but now westeros needs someone like dany and she is bringing the fire during the winter …

      Talking about dothraki how long do you think it will take people to realize that they may not be that different to those soldiers of great houses or maybe not that bad as they were made out to be because now they are under their Khaleesi of Khals..

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    195. Luka Nieto,

      I for one would have loved “Jelmazmo ” than “stormborn” ..
      But I guess the common tongue is used because of the Euron storm thing
      And Jon saying something about how Nk bringing the storm to whoever is revolting against him ..

      Speaking of storm and stormborns ..
      I guess this should answer who or what is third lie dany is supposed to slay. .
      1)Stannis being fake AA to hide Dany’s
      2)YG claiming to be a dragon and last heir to the targs while its dany who is a true dragon..
      3) euron claiming to be storm and riding dragons via horn and valyrian steel armor ..while dany is actually stormborn and riding dragons and who will eventually get the horn .

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    196. Does anyone else think the “gift” Cersei returns could be Myrcella’s necklace? The one the Martell’s sent to her after Oberyn’s death? Not sure how the necklace itself would come into play but maybe she’ll mention it before killing Ellaria (after Euron brings she and a sand snake or two to KL)?

      Maybe I’m reaching. EIGHT DAYS you guys.

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    197. Sean C.,

      I have a feeling it might have been delayed because at some point she, Tyrion and Jon will have an exchange about the fact that all their mothers died in childbirth. There are several instances where (to me anyway) D&D seem to have omitted important information that might manifest as important later. Off the bat, two other instances I can think of are 1) the omission of the third part of Maggy the Witch’s prophecy and 2) Brienne not telling Sansa the identity of “the man” with whom Arya was traveling.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Wolfish,

      But there are many instances from dany’s storyline that they have not touched ..not only dany’s birth but they have not yet mentioned House with red Door which is a big driving part of dany’s character…the naming of dragons …and so on

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    199. Ellie:

      “english is not my first language, sorry if I misspelled much”

      It continually astonishes me that many (if not most) of the people who post on this site are not native English speakers, and yet you manage to communicate far more clearly than 99% of Americans commenting on Facebook.

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    200. Danny,

      Dany has Tyrion who is cunning but he’s not a military mind. Cersei could possibly have Randall Tarly and whoever he brings on board which

      That’s why we are shown how dany is much of a military mind and capable in the books…

      It will be very much fun to watch the show making dany and tyrion to do dumb things so that cersei gets there till the end of season or even survive the season ..

        Quote  Reply

    201. Flayed Potatoes:
      Mr Derp,

      Kissed by Poop, The Poop, The Poop and the Rose

      The Poop on the Wall
      The Secons Poop
      Poopkeeper
      Poopbreaker
      First of his Poop

      I could go on for ages.
      There is too much fun to be made 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    202. Hodors Bastard,

      Not seamlessly there will be some tensions at the start because of the preconceived notions and reputations but with time iam sure the situation and state of westeros after war will lead them to those changes and adaptation by both westerosi and dothraki and even wildlings ..

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    203. Markus Stark:

      The point is that Dany’s decisions have been poor for years, and she hasn’t improved. On the contrary, she’s embraced the Targaryen motto of fire and blood more than ever.

      Dany was a good person for the first three seasons, now not so much.

      A tad harsh, I would argue.

      I’ve disagreed with a number of Dany’s decisions, but I still believe she’s a fundamentally good person. I do think some of her more rash and bloody actions have been taken out of both inexperience and desperation; she really wants to see former slaves leading fulfilling lives, but has no idea how to bridge the chasm between centuries (if not millennia) of slaveholding culture and all its ramifications, and her desire for the “instant gratification” of seeing the present generation of both former slaves and former slaveowners build a different society.

      Imho, Dany’s struggles in Slaver’s Bay mirror the terrible history of European colonialism in the Western Hemisphere and African slavery. No “solution” to the problem has proved to be satisfactory. Slave rebellion in Haiti: 200+ years later, the country is still the most impoverished nation in the Western Hemisphere, and one of its most unstable. “Bloodless” phasing-out of slavery in Brazil (where the majority of Africans were sent): Endemic racism still grips the country, where its all-white cabinet does not in any way, shape or form reflect the fact that well more than half the population is of African or part-African descent. Civil war in the U.S., the country’s bloodiest (with more than 600,000 lives lost): Again, endemic racism still grips the country, and white-supremacist groups have enjoyed a resurgence in an incredibly hateful, divisive political climate.

      I repeat: I don’t think Dany has lost her innate “goodness.” I think she acted first out of blind idealism (failing to see the slaveholding class, or “enemy,” as human), then tried reason on the advice of those around her (most notably Jorah, exiled for selling two poachers into slavery), then reverted back to terrible violence out of desperation. And if GRRM’s plot even remotely follows historical precedent, the former Slaver’s Bay will still be grappling with its terrible history long after Dany has returned to the dust from whence she came.

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    204. Jenny,

      Lol its not me …I would have hoped something like that couple of seasons ago but I have has enough disappointments with the show I would not hope for such things. .

      Wolfish,

      Dany is basically that person …that’s why we are not seeing any representatives of dothraki …she is the one ruler who is united all the khalasars…she stops the rape and blood sports… She will make them see the ways of living is better than their previous way…

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    205. Boojam,

      Doubtful. Walder had him locked back up in the dungeon, and Arya surely has not forgotten who was married before three members of her family and all their soldiers were slaughtered. I find it very interesting that hers is one of the storylines being kept tightly under wraps.

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    206. Lord Parramandas,

      This post is so much fun to read ..thank you for that..

      why should anyone love or follow dany or think she is capable leader …

      For me dany is intelligent and cunning ,she is ruthless when its needed …she is very clever but also self critical… She constantly questions herself and her decisions..

      She is humble and She knows where she is lacking that is in the proper education and history…so she constantly questions and listens to what people has to say about the past …her questions will be about the something she doesn’t know and wants to learn ..she is always willing to learn new things and a quick learner ..
      she has an excellent eye towards her surrounding …she watches and listens to the surrounding …she is a natural when it comes to leading and conquering …
      She is compassionate and cares about her people …
      She is dutiful and want to do the right thing of being last of her Great House ..
      She is charismatic…she gives hope and feeling that people are worthy enough when they didn’t get the same respect or status from other characters …

      She spent her childhood running from cities to cities ..living on the streets and literally as a begger and hence knows what’s its to be poor and hungry …to be a begger and to be a pawn in other people’s games. ..
      She knows what its like to be hunted..

      She knows that Queenship is not a right but a duty towards the people and her family …
      Even though she didnt have a proper education by a septa …she has the right ideas when it comes to ruling and what’s its to be a Queen…
      Like she knows she as queen must listen to all her advisors ..
      Like she knows that she as a queen she should be protecting those who can’t protect themselves …
      Like she knows she as a queen should put her people first and sacrifice for them ..
      Like she knows its her duty to her people and her personal wishes should not come before that …
      She makes everyone in her council speak up their thoughts and listens to each and everyone of them…
      Dany’s story has always been “damned if you do or damned if you don’t”…she always gets to have two worst possible choices out there but after having heard all her council speak up …she will come up with a third alternative which will be less damaging and damning than those two choices that were present …

      She actually respects those who are around her and cares for her…value their advice even though they are just some ordinary men with no powerful blood or family ties .
      She doesn’t mock or bully people her people or those who are around her. I guess you are confusing dany with someone else .

      And even after all this ..she still remains the same good heated and caring like we have seen her in the first chapter and just want a simple life with a family and a house with the red door

      Now is that all shown in the TV show is a question that should be asked…

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    207. dragonbringer:

      Talking about dothraki how long do you think it will take people to realize that they may not be that different to those soldiers of great houses or maybe not that bad as they were made out to be because now they are under their Khaleesi of Khals…

      Unlike several other regulars, I don’t see the Dothraki as simply bloodthirsty savages. As hard as they are, even they have codes of honor by which they live, such as the prohibition on weapons in Vaes Dothrak. And it has always grated on me that Dany and Drogo’s wedding night was changed in the adaptation; in the book Drogo was gentle with her, which made it far more believable that she eventually fell in love with him. The interpretation by D&D unfortunately took the Luke-and-Laura route, which left an exceedingly sour taste in my mouth.

      (Since you might not be American and/or might be too young to remember, Luke & Laura were a very popular couple on the soap opera “General Hospital” in the 1980s, and their rather questionable “romance” began when he raped her. Uuuggghhh.)

      You make an excellent point about the Dothraki being no different in warfare from many of the soldiers of the great houses of Westeros; the scene with the hanged prostitutes (“They lay with lions”) has always been deeply affecting to me. My main concern about them isn’t the rape-and-pillage part, which as you noted, would be no different from what Westerosi soldiers have been doing. It’s the peacetime adjustment to Westerosi society, where the only people with whom they might have anything in common are the Ironborn, who have promised to stop their reaving ways, and the Free Folk, of whom very few are left.

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    208. Lord Parramandas,

      You don’t know her.” He picked up his heavy horse and put it down with a thump.
      The dwarf shrugged. “I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad … a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere out upon the grass her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen are proof
      enough of that. She has crossed the grasslands and the red waste, survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet.

      Years of service in the Kingsguard had taught the white knight how to remain unobtrusive when she was entertaining, but he was never far. He knows, she saw at once, and he disapproves. The lines around his mouth had deepened. “So,” she said to him, “it seems that I may wed again. Are you happy for me, ser?”
      “If that is your command, Your Grace.”
      “Hizdahr is not the husband you would have chosen for me.”
      “It is not my place to choose your husband.”
      “It is not,” she agreed, “but it is important to me that you should understand. My people are bleeding. Dying. A queen belongs not to herself, but to the realm. Marriage or carnage, those are my choices. A wedding or a war.”
      “Your Grace, may I speak frankly?

      Always.”
      “There is a third choice.”
      “Westeros?”
      He nodded. “I am sworn to serve Your Grace, and to keep you safe from harm wherever you may go. My place is by your side, whether here or in King’s Landing … but your place is back in Westeros, upon the Iron Throne that was your father’s. The Seven Kingdoms will never accept Hizdahr zo Loraq as king.”

      “No more than Meereen will accept Daenerys Targaryen as queen.
      The Green Grace has the right of that. I need a king beside me, a king of old Ghiscari blood. Elsewise they will always see me as the uncouth barbarian who smashed through their gates, impaled their kin on spikes, and stole their wealth.”
      “In Westeros you will be the lost child who returns to gladden her father’s heart. Your people will cheer when you ride by, and all good men will love you.”
      “Westeros is far away.”

      “Lingering here will never bring it any closer. The sooner we take our leave of this place—”
      “I know. I do.” Dany did not know how to make him see. She wanted Westeros as much as he did, but first she must heal Meereen. “Ninety days is a long time. Hizdahr may fail. And if he does, the trying buys me time. Time to make alliances, to strengthen my defenses, to—”
      “And if he does not fail? What will Your Grace do then?”
      “Her duty.” The word felt cold upon her tongue.

      “We were all unblooded once, Your Grace. The Unsullied will help stiffen them. If I had five hundred knights …”
      “Or five. And if I give you the Unsullied, I will have no one but the Brazen Beasts to hold Meereen.” When Ser Barristan did not dispute her, Dany closed her eyes. Gods, she prayed, you took Khal Drogo, who was my sun-and-stars. You took our valiant son before he drew a breath. You have had your blood of me. Help me now, I pray you. Give me the wisdom to see the path ahead and the strength to do what I must to keep my children safe.
      The gods did not respond.
      When she opened her eyes again, Daenerys said, “I cannot fight two enemies, one within and one with out. If I am to hold Meereen, I must have the city behind me. The whole city. I need … I need …” She could not say it.
      “Your Grace?” Ser Barristan prompted, gently. A queen belongs not to herself but to her people. “I need Hizdahr zo Loraq.

      t was growing harder to find drivers willing to deliver the food as well. Too many of the men they had sent into the camp had been stricken by the flux themselves. Others had been attacked on the way back to the city. Yesterday a wagon had been overturned and two of her soldiers killed, so today the queen had determined that she would bring the food herself. Every one of her advisors had argued fervently against it, from Reznak and the Shavepate to Ser Barristan, but Daenerys would not be moved. “I will not turn away from them,” she said stubbornly. “A queen must know the sufferings of her people.”
      Suffering was the only thing they did not lack. “There is scarcely a horse or mule left, though many rode from Astapor,” Marselen reported to her.

      Their eyes followed her. Those who had the strength called out. “Mother … please, Mother … bless you, Mother …”

      Bless me, Dany thought bitterly. Your city is gone to ash and bone, your people are dying all around you. I have no shelter for you, no medicine, no hope. Only stale bread and wormy meat, hard cheese, a little milk. Bless me, bless me.
      What kind of mother has no milk to feed her children

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    209. dragonbringer:

      Wolfish,
      Dany is basically that person… that’s why we are not seeing any representatives of dothraki… she is the one ruler who is united all the khalasars… she stops the rape and blood sports… She will make them see the ways of living is better than their previous way…

      I do realize that that’s what she’s trying very hard to do; however, I think the adage that “change comes from within” is very pertinent here. Why did the U.S. fail so miserably in Iraq? Because among many other things, the idea of democracy is not something that can be either 1) easily exported or 2) imposed upon a population (the latter completely negates the very idea of what “democracy” is, but don’t get me going on George W. Bush’s failings). My point is: No matter how humane and beneficial Daenerys’s ideas might ultimately be, the Dothraki will not unquestionably accept them for the simple reasons that 1) she’s a foreigner and 2) they’re culturally alien to them. I believe that ultimately, for the Dothraki remaining in Essos (that is, the vast majority of them), it will take one of their own to unite them under a different system of governance and/or moral guidance and economic sustainability. That person might be someone who learns from Daenerys’s example (or the Westerosis’ example), but the important thing is for that person to be a Dothraki. As the common idiom states, “Better the devil you know than the one you don’t.”

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    210. Wolfish,

      Yeah iam not an American so I don’t know about Luke and laura…
      But dany’s wedding night happens to be something that I can easily agree with show version..
      GRrm doesn’t like to have rape scene for the POV character and after that wedding night drogo just goes raping her to the point where she wants to attempt suicide ..which would have been difficult to portray in the show..
      But the show’s take made sense dany making drogo convert and change and she adapting to the new life and taking control of it …

      As for setting down at peace time..
      Dothraki are coming from the same place where the first men to westeros came…
      The dothraki relied on raids and pillaging becuse the land that they were surrounded by great grass sea didn’t offer them much than that…iam sure the lands of westeros will offer more and these dothraki will learn to live and change to their new way of life …after all they already changed in many ways …
      They are being lead by Women
      The same women made them travel across poison water
      The same women made them to stop their raping and enslaving ..
      So this too must and will happen with time…

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    211. Boojam:
      Are they gonna just leave Edmure Tully’s story hanging or forgotten?

      Oh dear I hope not. I don’t want him to become Gendry 2.0

        Quote  Reply

    212. Flayed Potatoes: I mean really D&D and the other writers aren’t big fans of subtlety lol. Not even surprised… Battle of the Bastards is just lol

      If it was called Battles of the Bastards it would have been forbiddingly spoilery.

      Moreover, if lawful, Lyanna & Rhaegar’s wedding will retroactively render the last part of this title invalid

        Quote  Reply

    213. Wolfish,

      Well I would have agreed with you if you have said this about dany in meeren …
      But I don’t consider dany as an outsider to the dothraki…she changed her way of life and adapted to dothraki culture ..she felt it as her second home…
      She is a dothraki and even dothraki view her as a part of them …you can see that in her handmaidens and blood riders …she prays the horse god along with her seven new gods of westeros ..
      she only went against them in some of the rules like widows staying in vaes dothrak or blood games and raping and enslaving..

      What makes you think that there are dothraki left behind at essos …
      The dothraki follow their TsWMTw to the end of the world …

        Quote  Reply

    214. dragonbringer,

      As I wrote before, I don’t see the Dothraki as mindless savages. The ones following Daenerys have made enormous changes, as you note: following a woman, crossing the “poison water,” promising to give up rape and enslavement (as Yara/Asha agreed to stop the Ironborns’ reaving ways). I do not doubt that the Dothraki who came all this way with Daenerys can learn to live differently. But making the transition from a semi-nomadic raiding and/or hunting-and-gathering life to land ownership and agriculture is monumental (to say the least!). I don’t know that with only 13 episodes left, we’ll have much time to deal with such post-War for the Dawn details. But as another commenter (alas, I forget who) wrote a few days ago on another thread, in many ways GRRM has created an anti-Lord of the Rings—not because there’s anything “wrong” with LotR (there really isn’t), but because it’s a very different sort of story; said commenter noted that GRRM always wanted to see Aragorn dealing with the day-to-day challenges of ruling, such as writing and enforcing taxation laws. The Dothrakis’ transition from a primarily raiding and war-mongering culture to one based on agriculture and either 1) property ownership or 2) fiefdom will echo the greatest turning point in human history itself, from being hunter-gatherers to being farmers… and all the ramifications thereof.

      But I’m full of whiskey and pontificating now. Thank you for the pleasant conversation.

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    215. SerNoName,

      dragonbringer,

      Jaehaerys the Icedragon,

      Ellie,

      I must say I wonder if you even read my comments… first of all, I’m NOT a Dany hater. I praised her several times in S6 reviews and as I said many times, I really try to warm up to her as it’s pointless if I would just dislike the character as that would mean I would dislike the show as well. Providing some of my own quotes:

      S06E04: First of all, I’m not much of a Daenerys fan and certainly not a fan of “badass” Daenerys (season 3) but I can say, that I was really satisfied with her storyline. There was no “Drogon ex machina” and no “Stallion who mounts the world”. Daenerys managed to come up with her own plan with some help of ser Jorah and Daario, which didn’t involve dragons. My only issue with this scene is the death of khal Moro. I really liked this character and even in this scene, there was a contrast between him (A traditionalist) and other khals (more nasty ones): And another thing about nudity, it was just like Emilia said last year: She is willing to do a nude scene if it advances the storyline. So the “no nudity” clause has again proven false.

      S06E05: I often say that I’m not a big Daenerys’s fan (I don’t hate her either) but if her scenes continue to be like this one, I may actually start to like her. So far, this was my favorite scene of her.

      S06E09: First I can say, that I was pleasantly surprised by the resolution. I dreaded the “Fire & Blood” resolution and that Tyrion would play a role second to none in that. But thankfully, Tyrion reminded Daenerys of the Mad King Aerys and suggested a more refine plan. Yes, there were dragonfire and the dohtraki horde involved but it didn’t end with another civilization turned into dust. I can admit that when I first saw Drogon and the other two attacking the ships, I was like: “Wait, Fire & Blood will actually happen?” but a couple moments later I was: “Oh, they are burning the same ship. That could be it.” and thankfully I was right. I was even expecting the soldiers to turn on the noblemen but they just ran away and I can perfectly understand them. Why fighting in a war they cannot win?

      S06E10: And then followed the scene with Tyrion. I said many times before that I’m not a fan of Daenerys (or maybe the actress) but a couple more of these scenes and I may actually start to like her. I’m sure that dreams of the many came true: Tyrion became Hand of the King, well in this case Hand of the Queen. I can say that I was happy, especially for Tyrion because he is currently my second favorite character and was my favorite for all previous seasons (currently the title is held by Sansa). And then followed even bigger dreams, that came true. Daenerys left the freaking Meereen and renamed the place as “Bay of the dragons”!

      See? I could have been negative… or ignored her character all together, but I didn’t. And if I’m honest, if I wrote these reviews now during my current rewatch, I would have voiced several things differently… in even more significant positive way. And believe it or not, when I get to my S7 reviews, there will be no bashing of Dany. “Hate” word does not exist for me when I come to one of my favorite TV shows

      Honestly, how many times have you seen me bash Daenerys on this site? Or any character to be honest? Do you even know what has drawn me to this site in the first place? I think this is the first time I even properly explained that I’m not much of a Dany fan and that’s because people asked me. My initial comment was that I’m a bit annoyed by the titles… and then I immediately tried to break the tension with another comment, trying to explain my points so you wouldn’t see me as Dany hater, because I’m not. And then people (more accurately Ellie) asked me why… and I explained it with many arguments, the “essay comments”. Trust me, it’s not a pleasure to write those comments… I would rather write why I like certain character. I wrote you everything I had in my mind and I tried to be respectful.

      I do notice I forgot to include one bit in my Dany essay… “I try not to condemn her for her actions and rather understand her instead.” – I pointed out the reasons why I cannot really warm up to her, but I don’t condemn her for these actions… you won’t see me bash Daenerys using these traits. In fact, you won’t see me bash Dany at all.

      And now another very important bit when it comes to my liking of characters… it’s not their actions in the story that play the main role in that, but the “internal feelings” I get from them. Like one of you pointed above, there are parallels between characters’ attitudes and behavior, Sansa and Daenerys. But Sansa’s presence on the screen gives me special feelings all the time while Daenerys does not… why? I’m not sure but as I said above, it could be the way how both actresses deliver lines. I warmed up to Sansa in S1 and I liked her all the time, “bonded” with her character and whenever I see her on screen, I get those internal feelings… Daenerys on other hand gives me way less of those feelings. Sure, there are several scenes that I do like her, but the character is more repulsive to me compared to Sansa. But again, I do NOT come to WotW to bash Daenerys as a character and I really do try to warm up to her, partially suceeding in S6 which included more of her tender scenes.

      You may think whatever you like, but I’m not a hater at all and I was always positively aimed towards the show on this site, even defending the “happy fans” on several occasions because I will always prefer and defend a positive approach towards the show. “Mention what you dislike, but focus on what you like.” You may say “but the fansite cannot work if we’re only positive” but I was proven otherwise on several occassions. Sadly, I get a vibe from certain members that they enjoy discussing what they didn’t like more and as I said many times before, something feels different to me this year… something is missing when it comes to positive vibe compared to last year, where my hype was so high and the feelings this site gave me were so incredible. I praised this site on so many occassions as “the GoT fansite”. Here, on other fansites, to GoT fans I know for real life… but if this is how you will respond to those who prefer positive fan approach to the show and are generally never negative on the site, my opinion may as well change. Don’t make me regret writing this last year…

      I want to thank everyone who contributed to this site, either in form of articles or the comments. I’ve never NEVER been so hyped for GoT episodes before and without this site, it would simply not be the same. Yes, there were some tense moments, especially with Markus and Chad during the season and there were moments when I thought I overestimated the site in terms of positivity. But at the end, the good outweighed the bad. Especially big THANKS goes to Dee for staying positive through the entire show. Again, THANK YOU ALL FOR UNFORGETTABLE EXPERIENCE and I can guarantee that Lord Parramandas and his reviews will return next year for next season (and off-season as well)!

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    216. Firannion,

      Are there book readers who don’t like Dany or Jon? I found that my friends who only watch the show had a hard time understanding the importance of these two characters. The first seasons Jon was just a sulky bastard who never said anything and Dany was the sad kid who got abused and learned to love herself better (or something). It took me 11 marathon days to devour this book series. I don’t know how many hours, but many more than the 73 we will get. If you read it you know all the things that are motivating these flawed (all of them) human beings. Jon never speaks in the books either but we have about 50 POV chapters. Same with Dany. These characters are very young. So are Kit Harington and Emilia Clarke. I think they are both getting better each season.

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    217. Ellie:

      We all know the real reason behind that hate: Jon Snow.
      Daenerys being his potential first real consensual relationship? Must be butchered!
      Sansa taking the spotlight and having a disagreement with Jon? Must be taken down!
      Sophie giving an opinion that doesn’t paint a halo in Jon’s head? Kill her at sight!

      Thank you to point that out: as a Jon fan (most of all, I like many other characters as well), this is the exact reason I feel annoyed by Sansa and/or Dany fans, and I never feel the same from any other fanbase (not even Stannis fans).

      I admit I don’t quite like Dany as a character: the reason is that I don’t agree with many of her decisions, AND I don’t like that she condems people for doing something yet she does the exact same thing. She was one of my favourites in S1 and book1, I liked her story more than I liked Jons (or Sansa’s), but ever since her dragons were born she changed in a way I may understand, yet I don’t quite approve of. That’s not a bad thing in itself, yet her fanbase seems to ignore all of her flaws, and if someone points them out (especially if they are compared to Jon’s, as their plotline is quite similar), all we get is: you are a Jon fan, so Dany must dieee! – and completely ignoring the real reason behind it.
      As for Jon/Dany: I don’t ship them (ever since I read the first book after seeing the first season and figuring out R+L, I “ship” Jon/Arya, and I’m pretty sure we won’t get that). However I understand it is where the show is heading, it is pretty obvious for me, and if it is written well, I will have no problem with it at all. I’m not so sure about the books though, Jon is a completely different character there (much smarter), but even there I’m pretty sure they will hook up for some time, even if it’s not endgame.

      Sansa: I never liked her that much, but I have warmed up to her lately (I enjoyed her book4 chapters). My opinion is: she is not supposed to be smart, like, at all. Nothing supports the idea that she became some master manipulator, and suddenly she has the insight to give advice to basically anybody about anything apart from songs and fashion.
      Before I get the hate: I would have no problem with her being smart: I would have enjoyed her journey much more if I could have seen her learning path, successfully using methods of manipulation against her enemies and that would have really put her on equal grounds to someone like Jon (even the dumb show-version of him is more intelligent and willing to learn than Sansa).
      And this is not a show-only thing, and definitely not because of her S5 plot: Up until now, she never managed to manipulate any enemies: her only achievements were against her family and friends (the Vale Lords believed what she said because she was Sansa Stark, and Royce have met her before – they were not her enemies; and the other one is Jon – a family member, who would have given his life to protect her, yet she failed to be honest with him)
      So my main problem with her not that she is supposed to be smart, or that she isn’t smart; it’s not that she points thing out to Jon and she happens to be right – I would actually love that. My problem is, that I am supposed to believe she is smart, yet she had done nothing to prove she is, she is saying things to Jon that are supposed to be insightful advice or at least something useful, so when Jon ignores it she can be rightfully pissed – yet all her ignored advice worth nothing, or not supported by any evidence, so no wonder she is ignored.
      On top of that, when it is pointed out by anyone, Sansa fans start Jon bashing, claiming, that our main problem with her is that she takes the spotlight from Jon. Well, that wouldn’t be a problem, if she would do something really useful (especially if not against Jon, who is right now the only person who truely loves her and want to protect her). Actually I wouldn’t mind if she was working against Jon, in a clever way: that would make her character more interesting than it is now.

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    218. dragonbringer:
      Wolfish,

      What makes you think that there are dothraki left behind at essos …
      The dothraki follow their TsWMTw to the end of the world …

      Drogo’s khalasar alone counted 100 000 men and according to all sources, Dany acquired a khalasar of 100 000 men who will follow her to Westeros. So unless so many Dothraki died during the course of the series, I assume there are a lot more Dothraki left.

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    219. Wolfish,

      I have always said that Show won’t be having time with this things and will not show us all details they will just gloss over it ..but we can assume what happens with how they are doing things….like how they ended the meereen arc…
      Like I said I don’t think there are any dothraki left in the essos ..all of them followed their promised princess across the narrow sea of poison water..

      One of the thjngs i find most fascinating thing is how people miss the context in which some of the things said in the interviews and then go on to build theories around it ..

      GRRm did talk about how he didn’t satisfied with LOTr ending and wanting to know more about Aragon’s tax policy and such that …but he was talking about it with regards to dany time at meereen and how difficult it will be for her yo rule that place …
      But people often forget or miss the later part

      Jon snow as Lord commander and
      Dany as Queen struggling with rule. So many books don’t do that. There is a sense when you’re writing something in high fantasy, you’re in a dialogue with all the other high fantasy writers that have written. And there is always this presumption that if you are a good man, you will be a good king. [Like] Tolkien — in Return of the King, Aragorn comes back and becomes king, and then “he ruled wisely for three hundred years.” Okay, fine. It is easy to write that sentence, “He ruled wisely”.
      What does that mean, “He ruled wisely?” What were his tax policies? What did he do when two lords were making war on each other? Or barbarians were coming in from the North? What was his immigration policy? What about equal rights for Orcs? I mean did he just pursue a genocidal policy, “Let’s kill all these fucking Orcs who are still left over”? Or did he try to redeem them? You never actually see the nitty-gritty of ruling.
      I guess there is an element of fantasy readers that don’t want to see that. I find that fascinating. Seeing someone like Dany actually trying to deal with the vestments of being a queen and [dealing with] factions and guilds and the economy. They burnt all the fields [in Meereen]. They’ve got nothing to import anymore. They’re not getting any money. I find this stuff interesting. And fortunately, enough of my readers who love the books do as well.

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    220. dragonbringer:

      Well I would have agreed with you if you have said this about dany in meeren…

      But I don’t consider dany as an outsider to the dothraki… she changed her way of life and adapted to dothraki culture… she felt it as her second home…

      She is a dothraki and even dothraki view her as a part of them… you can see that in her handmaidens and blood riders… she prays the horse god along with her seven new gods of westeros…

      What makes you think that there are dothraki left behind at essos… The dothraki follow their TsWMTw to the end of the world…

      1) She has certainly adopted many parts of their culture very well (those she found palatable and morally acceptable to her), and a large number of Dothraki have found compelling reasons to follow her.

      2) You write, “she felt it as her second home.” This is crucial: It’s “home” but not the only one, and not the primary one—not the one she’s trying to reclaim, not the one she’s convinced the Dothraki to cross the “poison water” for. Ultimately, there is both a well-traveled worldliness and a deep tragedy at Dany’s core: she feels both compelled and duty-bound to reclaim Westeros, while simultaneously being most closely connected to the Dothraki, with whom she shared her most formative experiences, while also returning, always, to the memory of the house with the red door in Braavos… a city not coincidentally, I’m certain, founded by escaped slaves. (Apologies for the Pynchonesque sentence.) She is both outsider and not, a person who will always exist at the crossroads. That is both a curse and a blessing.

      3) Have you looked at a map and seen the size of the Dothraki Sea? It’s the equivalent of the Asian steppe. I still have a lot to learn about GRRM’s world, but given that King’s Landing alone has a population of 500,000, I estimate the population of Dothraki to be in the millions. As I wrote in an earlier comment (maybe in another thread?), my impression has always been that the Dothraki are based on the pre-Genghis Khan Mongols. There are lots and lots of them “left behind” in Essos.

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    221. Aszusz,

      I’m both Jon and Sansa fan and I adore their mutual scenes. And when it comes to Sansa, I admire her internal strength, the way how she became hardened after so many years of suffering. Sure, she’s not LF or Cersei, she’s a young woman who makes mistakes. But she did achieve things, even if not intentionally… she planted the seed of doubt in Ramsay’s mind about him being/not being the heir, resulting him in killing Roose a couple episodes later and thus enabling Bolton army to meet on the field (which Roose would never do). And what I admire in this situation even more is that she was willing to taunt Ramsay even after all mistreatment. Then she managed to reach to Theon, causing him to abandon Reek persona. Sure, not in particulary nice way but she achieved something that seemed almost impossible. And then she tried to escape WF on her own, using the corkscrew she snatched during her walk with Ramsay… knowing what Ramsay is capable of, but still taking a chance. A sign of courage in my opinion. Yes, she’s brash, stubborn and confrontational, but she’s also hardened, determined and brave, capable of hard decisions and getting hands dirty. And family name means a lot to her, considering how she immediately started to plot liberation of WF, even though it was a very risky move that could mean the end of both her and Jon. Yes, she didn’t tell Jon about LF’s army, but she made a risky move of contacting LF and this army was a difference between life and death. And to think about, what could have happened if Sansa told Jon about the army and Ramsay accidently spotted it? He would barricade himself in WF and there would be no way to capture the castle. Sure, Sansa probably had her own reasons but the girl was through a lot and she did regret not telling about the army at the end, so she wasn’t as cold as some people assume her to be. She doesn’t need to be female LF in my opinion… she’s a person who makes mistakes but she did play quite a role when it comes to WF liberation, even if some of her acts were not intentional. Without her, Jon wouldn’t even try to recapture the castle.

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    222. Wolfish:
      dragonbringer:

      3) Have you looked at a map and seen the size of the Dothraki Sea? It’s the equivalent of the Asian steppe. I still have a lot to learn about GRRM’s world, but given that King’s Landing alone has a population of 500,000, I estimate the population of Dothraki to be in the millions. As I wrote in an earlier comment (maybe in another thread?), my impression has always been that the Dothraki are based on the pre-Genghis Khan Mongols. There are lots and lots of them “left behind” in Essos.

      And don’t forget the saying “You cannot drown in the Dohtraki sea as the horde will always find you”. So I assume the grassland is swarmed with various hordes and one khalasar usually counts thousands of people.

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    223. Aszusz:

      Before I get the hate: I would have no problem with her being smart: I would have enjoyed her journey much more if I could have seen her learning path, successfully using methods of manipulation against her enemies and that would have really put her on equal grounds to someone like Jon (even the dumb show-version of him is more intelligent and willing to learn than Sansa).

      Sansa has precious little “learning path.” And before I “get the hate,” allow me to clarify: imho, Sansa doesn’t act; she reacts. Everything she’s learned has been either because 1) she was expected to learn it (e.g., embroidery) or 2) she was essentially forced to learn it because a) someone spelled it out to her (e.g., the Hound [“Your father was a killer. Your brother is a killer. Your sons will be killers some day”]) or b) she was forced to learn in response to a perilous situation in which she was placed (e.g., how to “play” Littlefinger, to an extent, following her experiences with him in the Vale). Sansa doesn’t learn things because she’s naturally curious; she learns things if and when she must learn them.

      Before I get flagellated… I do not dislike Sansa, and I certainly don’t hate her, as a number of people do. Having said that, I can’t relate to her either, chiefly because of her lack of curiosity.

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    224. Aszusz,

      Ask any dany fan why you like her. They will say its because of her flaws and her making mistakes but learning from it…
      It will get tiresome if people keep holding on to that flaws and mistakes and overblowing them and everything she does has bad and evil…this happens and people are not just blindly saying that.

      Comparisons if done correctly no one will be against it….most of the times these comparisons are done so that it somehow makes Jon above dany and everyone…
      Like when one compares dany sitting on a throne and Jon sitting on a chair …or how Jon is when he kills olly and how dany is when she kills khals ..
      These are not the comparisons that are fair and just ..like when someone says jon is fighting for people but dany is fighting for power…
      If people are being fair they would have compared dany’s ordering of mossadar death to that of Jon killing olly …
      If people are being they would know that dany already fought for people and will do again …
      Saying Jon doesnt care about IT unlike dany is something I find most ridiculous comparison…why does a bastard born of north care about IT unlike a Last surviving member of exiled family that ruled before…

      These are just some of the comparisons that comes to my mind …there are many more of it…

      The show and books always had these two characters parallel each other and I find them both equally fair and same balanced …but iam against those that are having Jon is great and above dany and vice versa( and just for the record saying dany is AAR/Tptwp doesn’t mean one is greater than the other )

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    225. Wolfish,

      Exactly as I said above (except that I’m a big fan of Sansa and I can relate to her). She played a role and the story outcome wouldn’t be the same without her… she doesn’t need to be female LF, her own stubbornes was sometimes a benefit for her.

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    226. Wolfish,

      3) yes but iam going with what the author had set up in the series…

      He had given us a prophecy about how the prince will unite them and lead them to the end of the world…

      I don’t know about you I don’t think people will miss their chance to go with their TSWMTW and travel to the end of world. ..who would miss such journey from dothraki’s perspective …

      He had specifically set up how the dothraki will one day unite in vaes dothrak as one single khalasar. .

      He had givens us the visions of Crones bowing down to Dany beneath the mother of mountains. ..

      And last but not least we have the letter of GRRm where he explicitly states that Dany will unite dothraki and lead them across the narrow sea ..

      The scene in Blood of my blood is for exactly that reasons…she is making every rider from dothraki as her blood rider and follow her…

      2) well exactly that’s what marks dany’s phases as a girl to women happens… As women will always have their second home with their husband’s …

      Your point about dany’s home and feeling of outsider is why I care about dany …no matter where she goes she will always feel as an outsider and she will never get to find the house with red door…she may even die realizing that she will never have her house with red door. And that’s sad for me..

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    227. Lord Parramandas,

      I would be bored af if Sansa became a “female Littlefinger,” or any watered-wine version of another character. Sansa is Sansa, a fully-fledged person in and of herself. And the fact that I, personally, can’t relate to her doesn’t make her a less rich, interesting, or worthy character. Tbh, one of the things I hate the most is reading/hearing complaints about characters with whom people can’t “relate.” So fucking what? (Pardon my language.) I can’t “relate” to Saner Half’s combat experience (he was in Beirut and knew many of the Marines who died in the 1983 barracks bombing). That doesn’t mean that I ought not try to empathize with it and understand how it fits into history, and 1) how I should deal with it as an individual, the spouse of a person who experienced the aftermath firsthand, and 2) how I should deal with it as a citizen, attempting to ensure that our military volunteers never find themselves in such a situation again.

      But I digress.

      As I’ve noted before, there are a number of things about D&D’s adaptation that have vexed me to no end. But the blind hatred for some characters, save the flat-out sociopaths or psychopaths such as Joffrey, Ramsay, and the Mountain, completely flummoxes me.

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    228. Wolfish,

      Yes… I personally cannot relate to Dany. I wrote a lengthy comment above but it’s awaiting moderation so it’s not visible yet. Like I often say “Mention what you don’t like but focus on what you like.”

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    229. Mel,

      Yeah I wish that were included too…at least those lines abut queenship and her duty…

      If you like here are some more of the quotes from books which never made into show ..

      said, together.
      “That may be so,” said Dany, “but this thing must be done, all the same.” She thought a moment. “The Unsullied have no fear of corpses. I shall speak to Grey Worm.”
      “Your Grace,” said Ser Barristan, “the Unsullied are your best fighters. We dare not loose this plague amongst them. Let the Astapori bury their own dead.”
      “They are too feeble,” said Symon Stripeback.
      Dany said, “More food might make them stronger.”
      Symon shook his head. “Food should not be wasted on the dying

      Your Worship. We do not have enough to feed the living.”
      He was not wrong, she knew, but that did not make the words any easier to hear. “This is far enough,” the queen decided. “We’ll feed them here.” She raised a hand. Behind her the wagons bumped to a halt, and her riders spread out around them, to keep the Astapori from rushing at the food. No sooner had they stopped than the press began to thicken around them, as more and more of the afflicted came limping and shambling toward the wagons. The riders cut them off. “Wait your turn,” they shouted. “No pushing. Back. Stay back. Bread for everyone. Wait your turn.”
      Dany could only sit and watch. “Ser,” she said to Barristan Selmy, “is there no more we can do? You have provisions.

      Dany gazed across the camp, to the many-colored brick walls of Meereen. The air was thick with flies and cries. “The gods have sent this pestilence to humble me. So many dead … I will not have them eating corpses.” She beckoned Aggo closer. “Ride to the gates and bring me Grey Worm and fifty of his Unsullied.”
      “Khaleesi. The blood of your blood obeys.” Aggo touched his horse with his heels and galloped off.
      Ser Barristan watched with ill-concealed apprehension. “You should not linger here overlong, Your Grace. The Astapori are being fed, as you commanded. There’s no more we can do for the poor wretches. We should repair back to the city.”
      “Go if you wish, ser. I will not detain you. I will not detain any of you.” Dany vaulted down from the horse. “I cannot heal them, but I can show them that their Mother cares.”
      Jhogo sucked in his breath. “Khaleesi, no.” The bell in his braid rang softly as he dismounted. “You must not get any closer. Do not let them touch you! Do not!”
      Dany walked right past him. There was an old man on the ground a few feet away, moaning and staring up at the grey belly of the clouds. She knelt beside him, wrinkling her nose at the smell, and pushed back his dirty grey hair to feel his brow. “His flesh is on fire. I need water to bathe him. Seawater will serve. Marselen, will you fetch some for me? I need oil as well, for the pyre. Who will help me burn the dead?”

      By the time Aggo returned with Grey Worm and fifty of the Unsullied loping behind his horse, Dany had shamed all of them into helping her. Symon Stripeback and his men were pulling the living from the dead and stacking up the corpses, while Jhogo and Rakharo and their Dothraki helped those who could still walk toward the shore to bathe and wash their clothes. Aggo stared at them as if they had all gone mad,

      A bride price paid in blood. Daenerys was weary of fighting this battle. Even Ser Barristan did not think she could win. “No ruler can make a people good,” Selmy had told her. “Baelor the Blessed prayed and fasted and built the Seven as splendid a temple as any gods could wish for, yet he could not put an end to war and want.” A queen must listen to her people, Dany reminded herself. “After the wedding Hizdahr will be king. Let him reopen the fighting pits if he wishes. I want no part of it.”

      We follow the comet,” Dany told her khalasar. Once it was said, no word was raised against it. They had been Drogo’s people, but they were hers now. The Unburnt, they called her, and Mother of Dragons. Her word was their law.

      They rode by night, and by day took refuge from the sun beneath their tents. Soon enough Dany learned the truth of Doreah’s words. This was no kindly country. They left a trail of dead and dying horses behind them as they went, for Pono, Jhaqo, and the others had seized the best of Drogo’s herds, leaving to Dany the old and the scrawny, the sickly and the lame, the broken animals and the ill-tempered. It was the same with the people. They are not strong, she told herself, so I must be their strength. I must show no fear, no weakness, no doubt. However frightened my heart, when they look upon my face they must see only Drogo’s queen. She felt older than her fourteen years. If ever she had truly been a girl, that time was done


      Doreah took a fever and grew worse with every league they crossed. Her lips and hands broke with blood blisters, her hair came out in clumps, and one evenfall she lacked the strength to mount her horse. Jhogo said they must leave her or bind her to her saddle, but Dany remembered a night on the Dothraki sea, when the Lysene girl had taught her secrets so that Drogo might love her more. She gave Doreah water from her own skin, cooled her brow with a damp cloth, and held her hand until she died, shivering. Only then would she permit the khalasar to press on.

      They saw no sign of other travelers.


      Her father had been slain
      before she was born, and her splendid brother Rhaegar as well. Her mother had died bringing her into the world while the storm screamed outside. Gentle Ser Willem Darry, who must have loved her after a fashion, had been taken by a wasting sickness when she was very young. Her brother Viserys, Khal Drogo who was her sun-and-stars, even her unborn son, the gods had claimed them all. They will not have my dragons, Dany vowed. They will notnot


      A queen must listen to all,” she reminded him. “The highborn and the low, the strong and the weak, the noble and the venal. One voice may speak you false, but in many there is always truth to be found.”
      She had read that in a book..

      He means well, Dany reminded herself. He does all he does for love. “It seems to me that a queen who trusts no one is as foolish as a queen who trusts everyone. Every man I take into my service is a risk, I understand that, but how am I to win the Seven Kingdoms without such risks? Am I to conquer Westeros with one exile knight and three Dothraki bloodriders?

      “Khaleesi. You ought to be asleep. Tomorrow will be hot and hard, I promise you. You’ll need your strength.”

      “Do you remember Eroeh?” she asked him.

      “The Lhazareen girl?”

      “They were raping her, but I stopped them and took her under my protection. Only when my sun-and-stars was dead Mago took her back, used her again, and killed her. Aggo said it was her fate.”

      “I remember,” Ser Jorah said.


      “I was alone for a long time, Jorah. All alone but for my brother. I was such a small scared thing. Viserys should have protected me, but instead he hurt me and scared me worse. He shouldn’t have done that. He wasn’t just my brother, he was my king. Why do the gods make kings and queens, if not to protect the ones who can’t protect themselves?

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    230. Lord Parramandas,
      Her character gives me zero “feelings” compared to many others, with only two scenes being remotely close to that.

      I feel the same way. And we can’t help if we don’t feel a connection to any given person. That’s why it’s pointless to try and push one’s favorites onto others. For instance, I didn’t care for Sansa right from the scene with Joffrey, Arya and the stable boy. But I felt for her when she had to endure her father’s murder, being forced to look at his head, being hit by Trant etc. and I identified with her silly romantic notions of marrying Loras and her looking for friendship, advice from Margaery. But I do not like how she turned out because it looks as if any sweetness and humility once there is gone. I would have made different choices than she after going through all that. So I cannot relate to the woman she is now. And it bothers me how her face is unreadable a lot of the time. And when it is, it comes across as arrogant/smug. I think my dislike started full force in episode “The door” when they were plotting at the table in castle Black. I forget what it was said at the time, probably the lie about Blackfish, but she gave this haughty smirking look and I thought dang this girl’s gonna be trouble. Lol.

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    231. Lord Parramandas,

      A long response I just wrote got lost in a computer glitch, so I’ve just been reminded: Write it in Word, Wolfish, and then save, copy, and paste it.

      In short: Agreed, as there are very few characters I can really “relate” to, and of those, their “relatability” has far more to do with how much in common we had as children, and what is at the core of our understanding of the world and how we wish to deal with it.

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    232. Wolfish:
      Aszusz:

      Before I get flagellated… I do not dislike Sansa, and I certainly don’t hate her, as a number of people do. Having said that, I can’t relate to her either, chiefly because of her lack of curiosity.

      Pretty much. Sansa is not pro-active. She is Jon’s princess in the tower waiting to be rescued. Dany and Jon appeal to me as characters because they are doers. Dany is constantly on the move – get dragons, get armies, get ships, conquer, free slaves, more conquering, ruling etc. Jon was a whirlwind of activity in the last book – food stores, train wildlings, assign wildlings to wall, send ships to hardhome, wight experiments, send mance on a ninja mission, advice Stannis, conduct marriages and new alliances, plan wars, make deals with bank – the list goes on. And then there was Sansa feeding SweetRobin his dinner…

      Sansa is not introspective either. She does not reflect back on her actions or the information that comes before her – she hears Lysa’s confession before LF murders her and yet never thinks back on and analyzes that conversation.

      Sure, the show has removed a lot of what made Jon and Dany interesting in the books and made Sansa more pro-active by giving her elements from Jon’s story. But show Sansa is a pretty terribly written character whose motivations are hard to understand let alone be a relatable character – far from it.

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    233. Wolfish: I don’t know that with only 13 episodes left, we’ll have much time to deal with such post-War for the Dawn details

      If this war culminates by episode 5 of the final season, this actually leaves only one episode, assuming there are any Dothraki left alive.
      In The Winds of Winter novel, if Daenerys’s chapters end with her setting sail for Westeros, this only leaves A Dream of Spring. Not enough pages, I reckon.
      I rather agree with dragonbringer: the famous Aragorn’s Tax Policy statement was not referring to the aftermath of the Great War/Second War for the Dawn.

      Vaes Dothrak is/was the only city of the Dothraki; all the Dothraki Khals were present at the Khalar vezhven and burned in the massacre; I seem to remember Daenerys having aquired the entirety of the Dothraki fighting force, numbering about 100.000 mounted warriors. Not sure about the “civilian personnel”, though.
      Drogo’s khalasar numbered about 40.000 before disbanding.
      http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Khalar_vezhven

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    234. ygritte,

      Well, my like for Sansa actually really increased in S6 and she elevated to my favorite character. I never disliked her before though. Like I said above, a lot of factors that contributed to WF liberation come from her, even if it was not intentional. Yes, she’s quite dark at the moment but I see it as a consequence of all suffering she went through… honestly, which character endured such a torment through the show? It leaves permanent scars on that person. We don’t know what’s going on inside her head… people say how Dany hides her vulnerable side behind her facade. How do we know it’s not the same with Sansa? Remember the post-battle scene on WF wall? She opened up to Jon again, they discussed Winterfell, she offered Jon the lord’s chamber and her smiles were very genuine in that scene. So the comments I often see, how she doesn’t care about Jon at all and how she wanted him to die in the battle… that scene alone disproves it. But sure, she’s really hardened now, but not “too far gone” yet.

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    235. SerNoName,

      And that’s the thing: I’m proactive and introspective, which is why I can’t relate to her.

      Don’t get me going on how I think D&D have failed certain characters, because as I’ve written before, I prefer to focus on the positive aspects of the show.

      I keep telling myself, over and over, It takes all kinds. It takes all kinds of people to keep operating human societies, actors and reactors, leaders and followers. The fact that I cannot relate to all of them does not mean that any of them are less worthy or valuable. It simply means that they are different, and serve different functions in the world. And the best fiction mirrors the complex reality of said world.

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    236. When you sit and think about it …

      I wonder why people think storm born refers to euron…
      If the episode title was just storm then I would have said it so…
      But having it titled stormborn means that there is something that dany does and dany related …
      I don’t rememeber the leaks by the episode by episode but I dont remember reading anything major maybe I have missed something but I do wonder what it will be. ..

      Speaking about lines

      we know that dany will have just one line in the episode 1 and iam willing to bet it will be around 3 to 4 mins scenes …and if that’s the first time we see dany in the episode …then I wonder who takes all the screentime ..

      So much for screentime and lines. I would sure like to bring this back up again after the episode 1 aired. .

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    237. The Sybian,

      I find it hard to believe that such immense patch of land would have only 100 000 men. If that’s the idea GRRM is trying to sell us, it’s not really convincing. And we don’t know if every single khal was present at gatherings.

      And Drogo’s khalasar consisted of 40 000 warriors, not all people.

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    238. The Sybian,

      LOL!!!

      The groove between the nose and lip is deeper on the left side, the driver’s side in the United States. After x number of years, those 10-minute drives to work sans sunscreen add up. 😉

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    239. I am terribly sorry to force my way into this conversation but since it touches a tad upon political science, I simply cannot resist ! ^^

      There is an awful lot to love or, at the very least, respect about Daenerys I think. From her desire to save and rescue others to her need to exist, from her resilience to her tenacity, for her moral compass to her dedication, from her sensibility to her fears, etc. In many ways, she has already changed the world and is trying, with all the best of intentions, to leave it a better place than she found it.

      I believe George RR Martin always intended for her struggle to be that of the idealistic and dutiful ruler who keeps on bumping into the wall of reality. And in that constant “bumping” lies what I perceive as the tragedy of her mission.

      dragonbringer:
      I have always said that Show won’t be having time with this things and will not show us all details they will just gloss over it ..but we can assume what happens with how they are doing things….like how they ended the meereen arc…

      I agree wholeheartedly with you when you say that many of Daenerys’s attempts at governing have been truncated from the show. However, unlike you, I am tempted to assert that those suppressions have served the character’s reputational accomplishments more than they have eroded them…

      Had the show portrayed the Astapori refugee camp in any realistic way, I doubt many viewers would still support Daenerys’s bid for the Iron Throne. Or any throne, for that matter.
      In the books, George RR Martin describes the camp in relatively subdued terms, considering his usually “in your face” narrative style when it comes to violence and/ or death. The vocabulary he mobilises to depict the pale mare epidemic is more evocative than frontal, more poetic than visceral. So we, as readers, are not “assaulted” by the abject horror of the Astapori refugees’ circumstances.

      Had it happened on the show, the visual nature of the medium would have left no place to hide the utter and complete humanitarian disaster that is this camp. And the viewers would have been left to contemplate how, after Daenerys decided to free its inhabitants, Astapor descended into profound chaos which led, among other things, to a pandemic turning into an epidemic, how many of Daenerys’s “children” then came to her for help and succor, how she denied them (for perfectly valid reasons, since she did not want the disease to spread) and how the people she had supposedly “saved” are now dying by the thousands in abject horror, filth and fear beyond the walls of her new city…

      And I would argue that the same logic applies to pretty much every crisis management decision policy put in place by the Mother of Dragons. Every single one of those so far has backfired, tenfold, and I feel the show has spared the character most of the consequences of those shortcomings.

      GRRm did talk about how he didn’t satisfied with LOTr ending and wanting to know more about Aragon’s tax policy and such that …but he was talking about it with regards to dany time at meereen and how difficult it will be for her yo rule that place …

      Precisely ! You are utterly right. And now, of course, the question is : what is the tax policy put in place by Daenerys in Book!Meereen ? I am afraid the answer is we do not really know, and neither does the Queen herself.

      George RR martin is pretty good at depicting the grind of day-to-day politics. Many chapters are a testament to it (Tyrion’s, Davos’s, Jon’s -after he becomes Lord Commander-, Ned’s, Barristan’s, even some of Cersei’s). Yet, said grind is relatively absent from Daenerys’s chapters, which is all the more interesting considering she, unlike all the aforementioned characters, is a reigning monarch.

      Institutional politics is, to a strikingly broad extent, non-existent in Daenerys’s chapters : no afr-reaching organisational policy beyond the symbolic, no institution building, no regime implementation, no social contract establishment, etc. It is, I think, one of the many manifestations of the lines of tension within the character.

      She talks more about ruling than she actually does it.
      She keeps on seeking power yet does not seem to really want to be queen (deep down she appears to wish she could just return “home”, to the house with the red door).
      She is her people’s “mother” yet tends to leave them within six months of freeing them (that is more babysitter-ish than motherly).
      She readily accepts people’s worship yet feels trapped by it.
      She identifies with Essos yet is single-mindedly focused on returning to Westeros.
      She sincerely and wholeheartedly cares for her fellow men yet is perpetually disconnected from them.

      At her core, Daenerys is, I believe, someone whom reality tends to disappoint profoundly.
      She is the almost minerally pure embodiment of the Ethic of Moral Conviction, to put it in Weberian terms, insofar as she views politics as a path to a form of salvation, not simply for the peoples she frees but also for herself.
      Now, while said Ethic is undoubtedly useful, when it is not paired with and tampered by the Ethic of Responsibility (the pragmatic, non-ideologically driven use of the State’s means of legitimate violence), it only leads to political disaster for one of the main dangers of politics stems from the relationship between the politician and the State-intrinsic means of violence at his/her disposal. Now it so happens that Daenerys has a maternal, passionate relationship with said means of violence since they are her “children” (the dragons)… That is not a recipe for success, I am afraid.

      The Mother of Dragons, wherever she goes, is the State. But sadly, that political model is forever destined to fail.

      Maybe that is both the beauty and the tragedy of Danerys. She has changed the world and she will keep on doing so. She has brought about immense hope and accomplishment and also complete devastation. Centuries down the line and with the intervening work of more pragmatic people, the consequences of the consequences of the consequences of those changes may very well be as positive as she wants them to be. But, as of now and for the rest of her lifetime, I believe it is going to be much more chaotic and lethal than that.

      I apologise profusely for the parallel I am about to draw however when I first saw Daenerys on that Greyjoy ship, with the flags flying high behind her, I could not help but be reminded of another ruler, in another space-time continuum, on another ship, in front of other banners, one of which read “Mission accomplished” when it really was anything but.

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    240. Lord Parramandas:

      … honestly, which character endured such a torment through the show? It leaves permanent scars on that person.

      Theon did.

      It might be deeply ironic that Ramsay is responsible for two of the deepest character changes in ASoIaF. I would add that some of the other deep changes we’ve seen have been more “organic” (for lack of a better term): people coming to an understanding (consciously or unconsciously), through their interactions with other individuals, that they needed to change (e.g., Jaime via Brienne, the Hound via Sansa & Arya). But Ramsay… Ramsay inflicted fundamental changes on both Theon and Sansa, and contrary to his intentions, the actions that originally terrified and weakened them as individuals in his captivity somehow strengthened them when they found commonality in his victimization of them and re-discovered the individuality they held before said victimization.

      Hope that makes sense. I’ve really made a dent in the whiskey, so…

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    241. dragonbringer,

      I think they might tell the story of her birth in that episode.She meets with Mel so it might be mentioned then.She also has a war map scene with all her allies.And I suppose a scene deciding to ask Jon to Dragonstone.I don’t know about any others.And I think people relate it to Euron just because they know what happens in that episode.It’s the sea battle.

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    242. Wolfish,

      Theon did yes. I thought of him when writing that comment. But Theon broke in his captivity, while Sansa hardened in his captivity, both in light and dark way, proven in her scene when she confronts Theon and how she was willing to escape despite knowing what Ramsay was capable of. Yes, Theon hardened himself again, but due to Sansa’s interference and I feel this scene of her is generally very underappreciated.

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    243. Firannion,

      Fans of Dany did not start this conversation. There is no character besides Dany and Sansa that will inevitably attract negative attention merely for existing.

      It would be as if people had posted en masse about how much they don’t like Jon and think it’s stupid that he had the battle of the bastards or hardhome episodes named after him, and why can’t he just die so we can have more screen time for Dany.

      Jon isn’t my fave at all but I don’t post that sort of thing. Why the F do people have the need to do so for Dany? It’s bizarre. There’s definitely something… different about the way the non fans of Dany behave compared to non fans of Jon, Jaime, etc. People hate her much more personally and viscerally and feel the need to broadcast it to all and sundry (Sansa too).

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    244. Lord Parramandas:
      SerNoName,

      Sansa surely was pro-active in S6, more than Jon to be accurate.

      Yeah, and they did it by giving Sansa book Jon’s story. In the books, Jon decided to go attack Ramsay to save his sister. On the show, they had Sansa getting him to do that because they wanted to give the character something to do.

      So David and Dan seem to think that book Sansa is a pretty boring, static character and the only way they could think of to make her more interesting was to make her more like Arya and give her narratives that belong to Jon, Theon, Stannis and Arya.

      Despite all that Show!Sansa continues to be awful mainly because she is not well written and Sophie Turner’s rather poor acting does not help.

      This article explains the problem with the way Sansa was written last season:

      http://theweek.com/articles/631406/game-thrones-sansa-problem

        Quote  Reply

    245. ACME,

      I never denied that Daenerys has good intentions. But if the character (or the actress) does not give me internal feelings, I cannot warm up to her. And sadly, it’s often the case with her when it comes to me.

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    246. SerNoName,

      Show Sansa is not awful to me at all. She’s my favorite character. And her book story would really not make a great TV. Blame GRRM for (in my opinion) very dull books 4 and 5 (which personally bored me to death) and for basically forgetting about Sansa in those books.

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    247. Queenofthrones,

      Well that all depends where you hang out.There are places where they hate Dany or Sansa passionately.There are other places where they hate Jon or Jaime or Tyrion passionately and put Dany or Sansa on pedestals.There are places where none of these things happen.It all depends on the fan community you frequent.Generalization help nobody.

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    248. Lord Parramandas,

      I do think much of Sansa’s growth and “hardening” in Theon’s captivity is under-appreciated, but in all fairness to Theon, he lost several body parts… including that which defines most men, to themselves and to the world, as men. As much as Sansa has lost to Ramsay’s unspeakable abuses, “womanhood”—and, most important for nobility in a feudal society, ability to procreate—is not one of those things.

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    249. Jenny,

      First of all, I believe all this intense criticising is unnecessary. I really do not remember such a negative vibe last year and every time Sansa is mentioned in one post, people start intensely criticising her. I don’t come to this fansite to see what people don’t like about the show… I thought of this site to be a really positive one, but this year, it doesn’t really seem that way to me. I personally don’t go on every Dany thread and loudly say how much I don’t like her because that goes against my idea of being a fan. In fact, this is the first (and probably only time) I ever expressed why I’m not a fan of Dany.

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    250. Wolfish: Doubtful. Walder had him locked back up in the dungeon, and Arya surely has not forgotten who was married before three members of her family and all their soldiers were slaughtered. I find it very interesting that hers is one of the storylines being kept tightly under wraps.

      Last we saw Edmure was free and back running Riverrun. So he could turn up in E8 and the Big War.

      It is really odd about Arya can’t tell what the story will be. I am expecting her association with Braavos is not over, but that will probably be in S8.

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    251. Wolfish: After x number of years, those 10-minute drives to work sans sunscreen add up.

      A new dimension of the taxi driver’s tan (primary definition), a duel raging on Wolfish’s face, and a dream model for a “before/after” face cream commercial:
      Step 1: take a headshot
      Step 2: draw a vertical line right in the middle of the photo
      Done & done

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    252. Jenny:
      Lord Parramandas,

      And that doesn’t mean that they hate the show or are not exited about it?

      But I want to actually see this excitement on this site. “Mention what you don’t like but focus on what you like”. I don’t want this site to be aplace where show gets criticised while its members like the show “offscreen”. There are members here in which cases their comments will automatically be filled with criticism and negative stuff. I won’t say names though.

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    253. Boojam,

      Edmure isn’t free nor is he in Riverrun. Walder Frey mentioned in episode 10 that Edmure was back in the dungeons at the Twins.
      Arya has definitely been underhyped so far.

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    254. Jenny,

      No, not really. I have never been in a got asoiaf space where people “hate “Jon or Tyrion passionately” or put Dany or Sansa on a pedestal.

      if people don’t like Jon or Tyrion, they ignore them. If people don’t like Dany they whine constantly about it at every opportunity. Everywhere.

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    255. Lord Parramandas,

      I will certainly not presume to put words in Jenny’s mouth, er, fingers, but maybe, just maybe, the point she’s trying to make is that criticism of certain choices made by D&D or criticism of certain characters that not all of us can, er, “relate” to does not amount to “hatred” of the show. In the last three weeks or so, you were pretty critical of the regular contributors as a whole, labeling us as an overly persnickety group who spent far too much time criticizing the show and not nearly enough time praising it (and, if I recall correctly, the characters). Yet, in the last couple of days you’ve made your displeasure with Daenerys quite clear, to the shock of many regular posters who had assumed that you wished to focus only on the positive aspects of all the characters and the book-to-screen adaptations.

      Don’t get me wrong: I’ve enjoyed many of your contributions, and I’ve enjoyed all of our personal exchanges about character developments and storylines. But you should understand that you’ve sent mixed messages to people who’ve been posting here regularly throughout the “off-season.”

      And please, don’t take this in a terribly personal way. As I noted above, I’ve really enjoyed our exchanges; you’re an incredibly valuable contributor to this site.

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    256. Dammit. 5:00 a.m. in my neck of the woods, and the early birds are getting the worms. I’ll have to catch up with all you East Coasters and Europeans in about 10 hours. Have a wonderful day, everyone!

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    257. Lord Parramandas,

      We do see her struggle with feelings of wanting stability on the one hand and manipulating for more control on the other. Have the grim, alienating circumstances in which she grew up made her cold and indifferent? As a young girl she wanted certain things even if it meant dishonoring her own family members. Does she still have that reckless streak, only now feeling more than ever that she deserves things because of what she’s been through? Is this why she discounted her brother’s wants and needs after his major ordeal and instead try to goad him into waging war, was she telling him she’d “do it herself” in order that he might change his mind in duty of wanting to protect her? Did she take stock when Cercei told her it’s a weakness to love anyone besides one’s own children? The thing is, everybody expects that Sansa just wants a warm roof over her head and stability but I think her character is not so inclined to be satisfied with such mundane things, especially with LF being an influence and trying to appeal to that side of her that might still want to be “queen,” now with the added appeal of wreaking vengeance on Cercei by doing so. He’s trying to get her to play the game and she might just use him as a pawn until she gets there. That would be fine if another character many of us root for didn’t have the better claim. I just hope it doesn’t send her into a clash in S8 with Jon and/or (if there’s an alliance) Dany. But wouldn’t it be something if it all ends on that note? Lol.

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    258. Lord Parramandas: I find it hard to believe that such immense patch of land would have only 100 000 men. If that’s the idea GRRM is trying to sell us, it’s not really convincing.

      http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Century_of_Blood#Cities_fallen_to_the_Dothraki

      Lord Parramandas: And we don’t know if every single khal was present at gatherings

      If you have access to this official episode synopsis, give it a try. I’m currently locked out, probably because I live outside of the US (?). Until I rewatch season 6, I can only resort to the Game of Thrones wiki for such (important) details. But I guess we should only be interested in this one particular gathering depicted in “Book of the Stranger”.
      http://viewers-guide.hbo.com/game-of-thrones/season-6/episode-4

      Lord Parramandas: And Drogo’s khalasar consisted of 40 000 warriors, not all people.

      This is what I meant, too. The “combat service support” (non-warriors) depicted on the show could be counted separately.

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    259. ACME,

      [

      Had the show portrayed the Astapori refugee camp in any realistic way, I doubt many viewers would still support Daenerys’s bid for the Iron Throne.

      The books did portray it and there are people who are still supporting dany claim for the throne or as aruler of meereen ..
      Mainly because you don’t get to blame everything like a epidemic that had befallen on dany …
      If the show does exactly like what it did in the books then the viewers would have seen Butcher king was too stupid and idiotic to listen to dany’s advice and yunkai slavers found a way to completely destroy astopor and steel all its wealth…and it was yunkai who lead the pandemic turn into an epidemic….

      It’s like blaming everything that had happened on westeros so far is somehow Ned’s blame or LF’s blame or Varys’s blame …somehow I don’t see these guys getting blame for all that…

      how many of Daenerys’s “children” then came to her for help and succor, how she denied them (for perfectly valid reasons, since she did not want the disease to spread) and how the people she had supposedly “saved” are now dying by the thousands in abject horror, filth and fear beyond the walls of her new city…

      She provided them even when she is adviced against it…she provided what she can..

      Another thing even through all the sufferings the people like her and adore her …why do you think that is…could it have been because they were having much worse life before dany ..

      George RR martin is pretty good at depicting the grind of day-to-day politics. Many chapters are a testament to it (Tyrion’s, Davos’s, Jon’s -after he becomes Lord Commander-, Ned’s, Barristan’s, even some of Cersei’s). Yet, said grind is relatively absent from Daenerys’s chapters, which is all the more interesting considering she, unlike all the aforementioned characters, is a reigning monarch.

      What are you talking about ..pretty much all of her chapters in dance is about day to day politics and martin himself identifies the difficulties of the situation she is surrounded and ruling that place ..
      You are saying you find it in Jon Davis and Ned and barristan and even in cersei but you don’t find that in dany’s …

      We had this arguments before about dany in meereen…
      You have this view meereen will fall back to its old ways or something like that right and dany failed there…

      My question is if thats the case we willl be having atleast a throw away line right in the next season like we had with astopor was back to slavery or stannis is dead like that…
      But if there is no line what does that tell you…

      You brought up how wherever she goes she only brings up destruction and lay waste …

      You keep saying varys and LF are good rulers …
      I wonder what makes them good rulers..what exactly did they accomplished to get such an award ..

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    260. Jenny,

      Okay that makes sense …I would certainly love that …even more of it is dany is the one who is telling the story

      As for the other comment you made…I would like to know such place so for a change it would be nice to be there …and maybe I can start defending Jon

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    261. Wolfish,

      Yes I meant this.And people are plenty exited in this site.Everybody loves the show in their way.I have been reading this website and been in the fandom since season 1 and the atmosphere is pretty much the same.You will have the first comments with general sentiments on the topic and saying how exited we are and how we can’t wait.Then it morphs into discussions and nitpicks etc cause that is the nature of fansites.Otherwise it’s just an echo chamber.But this website is a far cry from other places where they hate the show or just attack D&D every chance they get.But saying you find Dany or Sansa or much to my displeasure Jon annoying is not hating on the show lol.

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    262. dragonbringer:
      Ginevra,
      But I did ask you can you point out when something similar like you mentioned with Emma Watson and Hermione actually happened to dany or Emilia Clarke. ..

      I have absolutely no complaints thus far with the adaptation of Daenerys. Yes, D&D undeniably have changed many things, but that is exactly as it should be. The screen is not the same as the page and should never be treated as such.

      I believe they have stayed true to Dany’s character thus far and made her arguably heroic and potentially villainous at the same time, which is exactly as I read her in the books. Ambiguous. Gray. Possibly the biggest hero ever. Possibly the biggest villain. Most likely somewhere in between. And I think walking that fine line is truly brilliant.

      I’m also a huge Emilia Clarke fan. Is she the best actress on the entire show? I tend to think Dianna Rigg and Lena Headey may have her beat, but I absolutely adored her in “Me Before You.”

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    263. Queenofthrones,
      dragonbringer,

      Oh you should take a stroll in some parts of twitter or tumblr.The hate is quite strong.With Jon is more of a mantra of how boring he is,how cliche etc etc.There were a couple of podcasts that I have listened where the host absolutely hated Jon and they would bring it up every single time they talked lol.I don’t hang around long in those parts cause my blood starts boiling haha.I will grant you that the hate Dany gets in some parts its quite illogical.But I don’t think it’s that extreme here.

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    264. Ginevra,

      Well I love both Emma and Emilia…this reminds me of having a joke about me Emma and Emilia three heads of thedragons …
      Even iam not saying Emilia is greatest of the cast but she is doing her job which she is given to do ..

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    265. Wolfish,

      Yesterday was the only time I ever voiced why I’m not much fan of Daenerys, and even in that case, it was because I was asked why. I tried to wrap my Daenerys stuff very early in this thread. I’m otherwise always positive towards the show itself and negativity on this site will always bother me… like I said countless times, the site doesn’t feel the same to me this year, and not in a good way. “Mention what you dislike and focus what you like” – that’s my approach to every TV series on a fansite. But certain members’ comments are always very critical towards the show and those comments literally make me uncomfortable. I don’t want to come to this site to be frustrated every time… but exactly that happens all the time since S6 ended. I don’t why it is like that but it’s very different feeling for me, not at all pleasant one. And then those same people get insulted when I mention I feel they’re too negative towards the show? Why exactly? If they enjoy criticising the show, why do they feel insulted when I say they’re putting too much focus on criticism? Why not be a bit more positive for a change?

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    266. ghost of winterfell: Edmure isn’t free nor is he in Riverrun. Walder Frey mentioned in episode 10 that Edmure was back in the dungeons at the Twins.
      Arya has definitely been underhyped so far

      O yeah, that was confusing since Jamie had promised to send Edmure to Casterly Rock, seems , to me, a bit of a plot glitch.

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    267. Wolfish:
      Markus Stark:
      I repeat: I don’t think Dany has lost her innate “goodness.” I think she acted first out of blind idealism (failing to see the slaveholding class, or “enemy,” as human), then tried reason on the advice of those around her (most notably Jorah, exiled for selling two poachers into slavery), then reverted back to terrible violence out of desperation. And if GRRM’s plot even remotely follows historical precedent, the former Slaver’s Bay will still be grappling with its terrible history long after Dany has returned to the dust from whence she came.

      This is why I see the writing of Khaleesi in both the books and the show as brilliant. Intelligent people can see her written in dramatically different ways!

      I tend to be of the philosophy that Dany is the good ruler making decisions that first appeared correct but were not, in fact, wise. My question is: If not Dany, who is George talking about here?

      In real life, real-life kings had real-life problems to deal with. Just being a good guy was not the answer. You had to make hard, hard decisions. Sometimes what seemed to be a good decision turned around and bit you in the ass; it was the law of unintended consequences. I’ve tried to get at some of these in my books. My people who are trying to rule don’t have an easy time of it. Just having good intentions doesn’t make you a wise king.

      http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/george-r-r-martin-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140423?page=4

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    268. ygritte,

      Yes, Sansa is surely a complex character but aren’t layered and complex/ambiguous characters the point of GoT? If we had Sansa as a complete good girl and LF as a complete evil guy, that wouldn’t be GoT anymore. I learned from another show that there is always so much hidden in the scenes and sometimes, it requires a bit of thinking and the scene suddenly makes a whole lot of sense and the character is seen in a better light. And I believe GoT could be that kind of a show as well, only that people take what’s handled on a tray instead of looking at the person who holds a tray. Sansa’s actions are ambiguous for sure but we don’t know what’s going on her mind. Maybe that’s the point of her… she’s hardened, both in positive and negative sense, she may be standing on a border between light and dark and one small blow of a wind is all that takes.

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    269. Jenny,

      Haha Why do you think iam hanging only around here….I guess House with Red door will be a nice place ..since most of the posters are well matured and mannered and I do know them from the years at westeros.org….unfortunately I don’t get enough time to hang out there…I guess there you can find Jon and dany and cat and sansa equally loved..I only have respect for places like westeros.org and Wic( should I say used to) and watchers on the wall and house with red door and tower of hand and podcast of ice and fire …
      personally i don’t take anything seriously coming from a Twitter or Facebook or YouTube or tumblr …maybe I should add reddit to the list…

      Can you name the podcasts..
      Some of the podcasts are way worse…. I think it was fat pink mast or something where one said show is trying to whitewash dany by having children crucified by the masters and how it didn’t happen in the books …there is this one podcast called close the door or Jamie brienne shippers who hate dany so much i had to stop listening to them..

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    270. Ginevra,

      There are only two people who are on the learning curve of ruling like he said in the quote I gave in regard to the aragaorn’s comment …

      It applies to both dany and Jon….they both failed becuase they had good intentions but were somewhat chained to do the necessary thing and you will find both of them learning from that andchange in winds of winter

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    271. Jenny:
      Wolfish,

      Yes I meant this.And people are plenty exited in this site.Everybody loves the show in their way.I have been reading this website and been in the fandom since season 1 and the atmosphere is pretty much the same.You will have the first comments with general sentiments on the topic and saying how exited we are and how we can’t wait.Then it morphs into discussions and nitpicks etc cause that is the nature of fansites.Otherwise it’s just an echo chamber.But this website is a far cry from other places where they hate the show or just attack D&D every chance they get.But saying you find Dany or Sansa or much to my displeasure Jon annoying is not hating on the show lol.

      Well, I used to believe it but now I get proven wrong every single day… positivity goes way beyond that and opens so many possible ways for discussion

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    272. dragonbringer,

      Oh one is a spanish podcast and the other one is Vassals of Kingsgrave.In general I find it easy to moderate my fandom experience though.I frequent places where they are inclined to my kind of thinking and don’t follow anybody who I disagree with lol.

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    273. Jenny,

      Yeah I mostly just watch reactions videos and reviews by them and some podcasts I like to listen and this place ..

      Just now noticed that Stormborn is written by Bryan cogman and whatever hope I got after your comment had vanished …

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    274. Luka Nieto:
      Danny,

      Good guesses!

      For the record, here are my suggestions for the rest of the season:

      So, what are your title guesses for episodes 4, 5, 6 and 7, people?

      If they’re based on filming spoilers or leaks, cover it with a spoiler tag, please.

      Hmm….

      I agree with you about the titles for episode 4 and 5.

      7.06 White Wolf
      7.07 A Song of Ice and Fire or The Song of Ice and Fire or The Prince Who Was Promised

      8.01 The Long Night
      8.02 The Isle of Faces or The Long Night part 2
      8.03 Three Heads of the Dragon or The Three Heads of the Dragon or The Isle of Faces or The Island
      8.04 War for the Dawn
      8.05 The Pact or The Pact of Ice and Fire or Ice and Fire or War for the Dawn part 2
      8.06 A Dream of Spring or There Must Always Be a Stark in Winterfell

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    275. Lord Parramandas,
      I understand that totally and do not blame you one bit. There is no accounting for taste.

      In my eyes, Daenerys is George RR Martin’s incarnation of his oft-repeated notion that politics is inherently difficult, quasi-impossible in fact, and that, in this area, being a good person is, more often than not, not good enough (and perhaps not even necessary).

      ygritte: Is this why she discounted her brother’s wants and needs after his major ordeal and instead try to goad him into waging war, was she telling him she’d “do it herself” in order that he might change his mind in duty of wanting to protect her?

      I believe I can see what you mean but I am sorry to say I cannot quite agree.

      Jon has never been, is not and will never be weak-willed, in my opinion. This is a man who decided to join the Night’s Watch even after finding out it was a glorified prison, who fought with a healthy proportion of his fellow Crows once he arrived there, who was ultimately not swayed by his love for Ygritte and left her to go back to the Wall, who was willing to abandon Gilly to her fate for strategic reasons, who argued with Thorne, who did not change his plan to let the Free Folk south of the Wall even in the face of Olly’s soul-crushing distress, who basically told Sansa to go f- herself when she argued Ramsay was better than him at laying traps…

      I know Jon is adorable, with his beautiful locks and his