Episode 308 – Lady Stoneheart
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The finale of A Storm of Swords is finally here.
The years-long wait is over… let’s talk
Discussion Topics
Cat’s out of the bag
It pays to be Frey
She’s back
Why isn’t this in the show?
Feelings
Owns of the Epilogue
The community Owns in
Excellent emails
Moving on
She don’t speak
but she remembers
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We have a lot to talk about, everyone. Not least, we’ve finished A Storm of Swords!
Comments may contain discussion of an epilogue with major spoilers. Unsullieds, you’ll want to sit these comments out.
Lady Stoneheart art by Martina Cecilia
Hodor
This I must listen! It was a gut punching reaction and then I hated it because Cat was dead, the woman, the mother, the wife was gone. Martin had no business making a shadow out of her former self, and how much did she remember anyway. But that was just for a short time.
The North Remembers
I am very confused at this site releasing podcasts that have anything to do with the books. To be honest, and I am sure to no one’s sadness, I don’t comment here often because I have been called, and have seen others called, book purist/book nerd/ stuck up/ elitist, etc many, many times. That is usually followed by comments how the books and the TV are not the same thing, the TV is way better than the intended story, etc. and this is a site for the TV fans, NOT the book fans. (exaggeration is from original response) It can be pretty offensive and is rarely corrected by others.
So, I guess, why is there book coverage on this site?
Judibatt,
1. Because we want there to be some. The show is based on these books, after all. The main focus of the site is the show; that doesn’t mean there is NO book discussion, however. And GOO does cover Game of Thrones as well as the books.
2. Frankly it sounds like your real grudge may be with people’s comments toward you regarding other issues. No personal attacks are permitted here, but if something gets past mods’ attention, please feel free to use Contact (linked on the bar above) to message us for assistance.
WOTW is one of the few fan sites with a positive attitude towards the show (as long as there’s no LSH discussions), other places like Westeros are downright toxic to anyone who dares to like it.
That’s why I like this place, even though the show will never surpass the books for me.
Looking forward to hearing Eric’s and Zack’s reaction, just have to catch up first!
GOO crew, I would like to repeat the suggestion of combining AFfC and ADwD in this order: http://boiledleather.com/post/25902554148/a-new-readerfriendly-combined-reading-order-for-a
It’s perhaps a rival podcast (have never listened to it TBH), but I think the reading order is worthwhile. Like many people, I enjoyed the books much more this way.
Great podcast!!!
First post ever on WoW.
Great response by Sue regarding the reason GOO belongs here. Love the GOO Podcast and feel this is a great platform to reach audiences who are fans of both the show AND the books.
Keep up the great work on the Podcast. Download each week using Pocketcast and couldn’t be happier.
Lollius Palicanus,
I second this motion. Much more enjoyable this way. Splitting narratives into halves like AFFC/ADWD and two of the LOTR books do makes sense for the authors and that’s fine, but it’s not an enjoyable way to experience those stories IMO. I mean really, does GOO want to go 18 months without talking about Jon, Dany or Tyrion (to name a few)?
I have been looking forward to this episode for so long and you guys totally nailed it. The Lady Stoneheart reveal is second only to the Red Wedding in terms of pure shock value in the series to this point, IMO. Hearing your reaction to the LSH reveal really took me back to the first time I read this book and the way I felt when I realised what George was writing.
I would love to one day hear David and Dan’s reasoning for not including LSH in the show – I always assumed it was because they felt they had enough supernatural elements in the show already. Who knows, maybe we’ll see her in S6…
Love the podcast but am still catching up. I just wanted to add my voice… please proceed with the the combined new-reader friendly AFFC/ADWD chapters as requested above!
It’s the best way to keep going with all the characters, and why wouldn’t you want to do that! It’s not too hard to do as there are mainly a few AFFC chapters in a row then a few ADWD in a row, so everyone should be able to follow the list. Plus it’s an awesome read.
I think you are right about that. Necromancy had already been established by that point in the books. In my opinion, UnCat is superfluous. Cutting the vengeance zombie from the show was a good decision:
“She said a word,” cliffhanged Martin.
Give me a fucking break.
I’m very against reading AFFC/ADWD the Boiler Leather way when it’s your first time reading the books. Because each book is its own thing and meant to be read a certain way- it has its arc, each chapter was placed somewhere for a reason. Reading the re-ordered way is an interesting exercise and fun for people who have already read the series, but for first-timers, you’re robbing them of the experience of reading the story as it was intended. Scrambling the chapters into chronological order isn’t fixing it, it’s changing the story- it’s no longer unfolding in the order it was meant to by the author. (Being general and vague here so as not to spoil people who haven’t read the last two books.)
Sue the Fury,
I thought this was a spoiler thread. My post has spoilers. Not the belt! NOT THE BELT!
I haven’t tried reading in the Boiled Leather manner. That would require a reread of AFFC and there are just some things people aren’t meant to do. I do agree people should read them separately on the first go. While I hate AFFC, I could never accuse it of being a shitty book. It was wonderfully written, I just didn’t like it. Mixing in the literary dog’s breakfast of ADWD with the capably executed AFFC would be too jarring for the reader. Might kill somebody.
Sue the Fury,
I disagree. I did it that way on my first read through and I don’t regret it. Then again, I read all of the books in quick succession over the course of 3-4 months so maybe that makes the difference, but I just find scrambling all the way back to the end of ASOS for book 5 unfavorable. However, I will concede there were a couple of big gaps between certain POV chapters, but it wasn’t that big of a deal to me. To each his own.
Sue the Fury,
I see your point about reading it as the author published the books, but having read the combined reading order, it *feels* to me that THAT was the book GRRM wanted to write. They play off each other well, flows better, and doesn’t leave the reader with that detached-from-the-main-story as many felt with AFFC
TL:DR: A new reader isn’t missing anything mind-blowing by doing the combined reading first.
Judibatt,
If you ever feel attacked or insulted, contact the mods and they will ban the hell out of the troll. Mods here are great, very respectful and they really do their best to keep the site friendly. This is not Westeros.org, where you will be attacked and openly mocked by simply dare to say that you like the show and nobody will do a shit to stop it.
Listening to this reminds me how absurdly badly I want Lady Stoneheart in the show
Aint happening tho :'(
I loved it.
On the Epilogue feels and Cat reveal: yes, I got goosebumps when Zack read her reveal. The background was pretty loud and music was terrifying by itself 😀 however the description of Cat is just a hair-raising image made into vengeance. And her eyes are described so vivid with hatred as her body is with the signs of her death. It’s what Martin does best. Oh, and it feels good too because Cat is back!
Arya was mentioned as an instrument of vengeance (when she killed the Frey at the side of the road) resembling UnCat but she is far in Braavos now and this Stark who suffered her own death and her beloved son’s death is not about to take any prisoners. I think Arya would not get the same book reader reaction of “hell yeah”, quite like UnCat at this point. Martin’s Epilogue is rewarding and we’ll set up.
On Merrit Frey: I agree with the gentleman in the podcast who pointed out how ordinarily Westeros-y his POV is. Sure, we hate the Freys with a passion and I think them despicable and unredeemable, but the reality is this guy is just another example of son in a House ruled with a firm hand (by the Late Walder Frey), trying to please his father & family and failing.
On why isn’t this in the show: “because it doesn’t fit the dynamic of the show”, maybe the closest to the truth I’m not sure which of the gentlemen said it but I think he hit the nail on the head. If she does make it due to more seasons I will be happy but it is going to be hard to set it up now. Who knows though, stranger things have happened.
Thank you for your podcast. I am pleased to see others enjoying one of the better reveals in the series and you’ve made me relive it too.
Oh good, I have time to listen to this one!
As a side note: While listening I just saw this tailored ad on facebook lol. Boy, do they know how to get my attention! I don’t remember Daenerys being in The Office…?
Damn fine discussion about a damn fine topic. Ultimate rage, a walking nightmare, a rotting vessel of hate and revenge, a life not wanting to live with the last images, the only images, it knew from its existence as a respectable human. Freys beware!
You GOO folks rocked ASoS! I’ve enjoyed your analysis and your inspired debate for several years now. Keeps getting better! Do carry on, my friends.
#BoiledLeatherAllTheWayBaby!
Bring back Theories of Ice and Fire!
I always thought it was because 80% were English majors.
LSH is goddamn terrible. It’s the cheapest possible move GRRM could have gone with to end the book, an irreparably stupid moment. Also, it took a complex character like Catelyn, and made her a worthless, unspeaking revenge zombie.
Not to mention that
Laura,
I don’t think people would be so anti-LS if the fans weren’t so single minded and obsessed, not to mention their bizarre conspiracy claims that D&D are trolling them at every turn.
“ERMAGERD, they said mother! LSH CONFIRMED”
“OMG, they mentioned Catelyn! I can’t believe they mentioned a main character who was mother to 4 main cast members! LSH confirmed, if she’s cut now D&D are satan!”
It’s actually the exact opposite for me. I loved Catelyn in the books and show and felt like LSH turned a complex character one dimensional and simplistic. It also didn’t help that she was introduced at the end of book 3 for shock value and hasn’t attributed anything to the plot since. I might have warmed to her if her character was introduced at a time where she was actually relevant. This is all my opinion, of course.
It’s interesting that many think that LSH = Cat, which is not what GRRM intended at all. LSH represents the last image and emotion that Cat saw/felt in her “first” life, captured in a rotting body dead too long and decaying, distorted mind. (Thoros warned Beric of the consequences) Other than occupying Cat’s body, LSH has nothing at all to do with Cat. One can only imagine the disturbing possibilities if “it” ever saw Cat’s children and/or Jon again.
Hodors Bastard,
Yeah, that doesn’t actually make it at all interesting. She remains a dull revenge zombie. And all the shock comes from her being Catelyn, so by saying LSH has nothing to do with Cat you’re basically admitting it’s a worthless, hollow twist.
cosca,
Not really. I’m just fascinated by the varying levels of undead in this tale.
1) Cat was dead too long and with a horrifying end
2) Beric was brought back immediately but lost a little each time
3) Wights are brought back immediately by WWs as walking dead, craving more death
4) Coldhands is a wight (or WW) with a conscience
5) Robert Strong was brought back via potions
6) Ironborn clergy need to drown in order to serve
7) Faceless Men can assume a dead man’s facade
8) Are the dead actually dead if not witnessed by a PoV?
9) Jon 2.0 ?
How can one not be fascinated by these explorations of undeath in the novels?
Hodors Bastard,
Nice breakdown. What about the wight that almost killed Jeor. Was he just taking a nap when they dragged his corpse to Castle Black? Also, warging & second life.
Damn…great additions to the list.
So I think it takes a WW nearby to enable a wight…something caused them to rise when they did.
Warging! Especially warging performed too long and the warg (Varamyr 6skins and Orell) loses its mind in the wargee.
Second life…the online ego game? Please clarify!
And don’t forget Ser Pounce, who is R’hllor’s unholy furry manifestation.
Hodors Bastard,
According to Westeros (I know),
Hodors Bastard,
Because it’s undeveloped and has lead to almost nothing in story terms so far?
Bringing back a character just so fans can theorise about what resurrection does, is silly, if that’s the main thing you can get out of it.
Rygritte,
Ah…I guess “second life” is what I think is warging gone too long. Definitely an option when the body is facing imminent destruction, but sad knowing that one will lose their identity and memories eventually…like Alzheimers.
cosca,
Well, dragons, a dickless army, and 700ft ice walls are silly too….but fuck it, it’s something to think about in-between paying taxes and walking my turtle.
I think LSH is a great addition. She is the one character that gives me VENGEANCE. The Starks have been taking brutal hits from book one and except for Jon beheading Janos Slynt (For reasons other than Vengeance) we have not got any payback for them. By the time Arya gets to Westeros, everyone on her list is going to be already dead, killed by someone else. LSH is out there delivering JUSTICE. When she turned up in ASoS, hanging the despicable Freys, I cheered. I enjoyed it just as much as Manderly making Frey pies.
I liked Catelyn. I love LSH. I am hoping that she hangs Jaime Lannister for all that crap he has inflicted on the Starks. But I get the feeling that idiot Brienne is going to step in and save him.
I also understand why she had to be cut from the show. Too many storylines.
but enough about Rickon.
cosca,
I and I’m pretty sure everyone else here gets it. You don’t like LSH. But as you have seen by these comments there are more who find the character intriguing than you might think. I and many others don’t agree with you at all that she’s just some mindless zombie that serves no point. And I certainly hope your dislike for the character is simple taste and opinion and not influenced because book readers annoy you by wondering if she will make an appearance in the show. But based on the post I’m responding to of yours, I’m left unsure.
It seems strange to call me out for making assumptions…while making assumptions of your own. And of course there are many who find the character intriguing. It just so happens that I find the subset of fans who love LSH, are by far the most irritating on average. I keep my dislike of the fans and of the character separate.
I find that bloodthirstiness disturbing frankly. Showing that revenge bad thing is a pretty consistent theme in the books, one I agree with.
Why disturbing? And I don’t think revenge is shown to be a bad thing considering that no one in the books is in a situation to get revenge? Except Arya who has yet to do anything about it.
I want payback for the Starks. I wanted a Stark to take out Tywin Lannister. I wanted Sansa to be the one that killed Joffrey. I want a Stark to take out Roose Bolton. I would cheer if Jeyne Poole slowly and painfully killed Ramsay Bolton. I am not Jesus and this is a work of fiction. I want the bad guys to get it at the hands of the people who have suffered because of them.
This is why ‘Edd, fetch me a block’ is a favorite in the book for many readers. It’s Jon getting justice and payback for what Slynt did to Ned in KL. Which is why I am cheering for LSH.
I’m not sure I would agree with that. I’ve never seen GRRM comment on this specifically so I’m not sure why exactly he split the books as he did ( if anyone can recall him addressing this I ‘d love it if you could share it as I’m happy to stand corrected ), but I must admit that I’ve always thought he split them purely because 1) he had written too much for one book and needed to split it, as he says in his authors note at the end of AFFC; and 2) he had more written more for the AFFC characters and so split the books by characters just so he could get something published in a timely manner. Therefore the Boiled Leather order doesn’t bother me.
I also think the format of a podcast reading would suit the Boiled Leather order, otherwise a lot of popular characters will be on hiatus for a really long time.
Time will tell! And I’ll happily listen either way ☺.
Well, you had Oberyn for one. Pretty clearcut example there. And Arya was severely traumatised by the whole deal with the Tickler, that was not the reaction of a healthy mind.
It’s disturbing to root for a mindless revenge zombie just because she could potentially kill characters you don’t like. In her very first chapter she’s murdering someone who barely deserves it.
I actually like what GRRM did with LSH, it’ll pit Brienne and Jaime either against each other, or pit both of them against LSH, in the next book. And it plays into GRRM’s interest in oaths kept or broken, and will hopefully mean LSH will be interacting with Jaime/ Brienne in TWOW.
Poor Cat, ending up like this, hopefully Arya puts her out of her misery and gives her some kind of peaceful ending.
Was GRRM trying to tell us that revenge is bad by killing off Oberyn? I don’t think that was his message. Is GRRM saying that Oberyn should not kill the Mountain and that the Mountain should be forgiven for raping and killing women and children?
Rather, I think, GRRM’s message was the same old ‘bad things happen to good people when least expected’ that keeps repeating itself again and again in the books. It’s the reason Ned, Robb, Cat, Quentyn etc. all ended up dying.
As for Arya and the tickler. Arya was traumatized by the Tickler’s sadism long before she killed him. That’s why she screams out his interrogation questions. Because she was traumatized by what HE did. Arya is a traumatized child soldier because of the things she experienced and the things done to her. We are meant to be disturbed by how traumatized Arya is there. At the same time we can also be emotionally satisfied that the Tickler is dead. I don’t think that GRRM was telling us anything specifically about revenge in of itself here.
Ah, the moment the books become boring and bad, for me. Trully the worst moment in the books, sadly it wasn’t the last.
A pity because I really liked ASOS in rest.
Also 100% agree with Sue read the books the right order, the one the author realesed them. Not some fan-made order. For example it totally ruins Quentyn and the Dornish story (if there is anything too ruin..).
The books are not ment to be read cronological, if they where, we would have read Jaime’s chapter with Brienne in ACOK before the battle of BW or read Jon’s last chapter in TWOW and actoully get the battle of WF instead in ADWD.
No point in ”enhancing” these books artificially, read them the order they where realesed, if the author wanted them to be read in another order, he should have realesed them another way, or publish some special edition that combined them.
Mihnea,
Well, the order they propose is not strictly chronological, and the link I shared keeps some spoilers intentionally hidden. Furthermore, George DID want them to be released as one book, but it got too long. I believe he also stated that one day, hopefully, he will be able to release them together in one volume. So all your arguments are rather void.
As for the discussion on LSH here in the comments: Good, GOOD, let the hate flow through you.
I forgot to say, but I really loved the discussion once more. Somehow you guys keep getting better and better at what you do.
Lollius Palicanus,
If Martin wanted people to read it as one book, he should have done so.
If he ever realeses a special edition where this books are combined, then I will gladly read it but I simply refuse too read this things in a order made by fans.
People reeding at home, they can do it whatever way they want, bu heret I belive too be able to have no disscussion, no debates, the books should be read in the order they where oficially released.
If there is an oficiall release of a special edition, then with all love read it that way.
I’m simply against reading this, in a order made by some fans.
Young Dragon,
I feel the same.
Than you haven’t been paying attention to what is actually happening at Riverrun in AFfC..
She has done more than stringing up Brienne, Pod and that other guy.. she’s planned for stuff, case and point her having Robb’s crown..
She’s not my favorite character, but I can see some of her/bwb’s workings and definitely can see where it will end up doing the most harm to the Lannister/Frey-camps.
SerNoName,
Totally Agree! I would love Arya to kill all the Freys but Walder. Having him watch the destruction of his family line then I want her to make him choke to death by shoving bread and salt down his throat. Before she leaves she writes/ carves “The North Remembers…Winter’s Coming” on a wall before she seeks out Bolton.
Mihnea,
He could not and still cannot. The publishers simply will not allow him to publish one huge book.
Granted, I’ve looked back at his blogposts, and at the time Feast was about to be published he stated the following about the split:
So, he did say that he became convinced that two books would be better, but this clearly was a conviction driven by necessity in the first place. Later, when he announced that ADwD was finished, he acknowledged that at least his afterword in Feast was ill-considered (although this mostly had to do with when he promised Dance).
While he was writing Dance, he also said this:
Note again that the Boiled Leather reading order DOES NOT attempt a purely chronological sequence of chapters. Most of it is linking thematical similarities between both books. And, having read both the ‘normal’ order and the Boiled Leather one, I much prefer the latter. In other words, the ‘dramatic chronology’ of the combination seems superior as well.
By the way, not too long ago I rewatched the original Star Wars to prepare for The Force Awakens. It was a fan edit, and I must say that it was superior to both the special editions (obviously), but also to the original film in my opinion. So personally I will never again automatically reject fans editing material. Note that an edit is not fan-fiction. And George has clearly remarked that his material for Feast and Dance could be edited back together, only that it would be very hard.
Just wanna say thanks for introducing me to GOO – cracking podcast – really enjoying their insight and breakdown of the story and characters – going back and listening to loads of my favourite chapters from the books, very enjoyable. Can’t believe i haven’t listened to this before. Amazing. Cheers WOTW.
Quite possibly the best Game of Owns episode yet — and covering one of the best chapters ever written by George R.R. Martin. You nailed it.
Thank you, Zack, Eric, Micah, and Hannah for giving me a full-on return to the kinds of emotion and passion that drew me to this series in the first place.
In a time where fandom negativity seems to be so prominent (my head’s so low these days I tend to just draw back from the whole of it)… you guys really are what we as ASoIaF/GoT fans should hope we can be. Kudos.
And you’re right, this is the perfect end of the first half of the tale. Can’t wait to ride the rest of the way in spirit with you.
Well, there’s a certain Dornish character in the later books (totally different in the show) who says “Where will it end?”, i.e. they kill him, we kill them, they kill us… Where will it end?
Also, I think Tyrion thinks about how the current generation is still being puppets (for revenge) to the previous and how the current generation’s children will be puppets for them. Doesn’t sound too good.
In order for revenge to work, you’d have to do a Tywin. He completely annihilated the Reynes and Tarbecks, every man, woman and child. Would you want the Starks or their allies to be like Tywin?
I get the need for revenge for readers – I was calling for Frey blood after the RW – but the more I think about it, the less satisfactory I think it would be. Total revenge is just as much an atrocity as the original act, and if it isn’t total, it’ll just go on and on… The way I’ve read the books, GRRM seems to agree, but maybe I’ve read the books wrong and total revenge for the “good guys” is the intention, ironically turning them into the “bad guys”.
I want some revenge, or “karma”, but more subtle. Walder Frey to see many of his (male) progeny dead before he snuffs it, and Freys becoming total social outcasts. Lannisters taken down a peg or two (or ten, or whatever) and forever reviled as the family of the Mad Queen, Jaime could become a saint but everybody would still remember him as the Kingslayer etc.
Oh, and the podcast. I haven’t listened to this edition yet but I’ve enjoyed the couple of editions I’ve listened to. Will definitely listen to more, you guys do a great job.
My problem is that I’m a “visual” person, not very good at listening, my attention starts to wander, no matter how good or interesting the content. That’s why I can’t do audiobooks at all! 😀
As to the revenge on Freys , I’m totally all right with some of the main culprits getting it in the hands of Starks/their allies, as some already have. (Speculated Frey pies were delicious… I’m appalled I’m actually cheering for gratuitous canibalism :-O 😀 ) But this leads to reprisals…
I’ve thought of a “clean” way of getting rid of all the Freys. The reason why the RW was so horrendous in-universe isn’t because they killed Starks (a crime), it’s because they committed a grave SIN. Guest right is one of the most sacred tenets in-universe. So let the gods take care of them! When spring finally comes, a furious flood washes away the bridge and the Twins and every Frey in it! (Also very satisfying because the bridge is their source of “greatness” in the first place.)
It would be interesting to have some kind of vote/poll on those that would like to read the books as published v. reading combined order.
I have done both and really just enjoyed the story so much better in combined order-but, whatever you decide, I will be listening!
Not you too, Axey! I am gutted.
Axechucker,
Off-topic, but I just grab the opportunity to tell you how much I enjoyed the videos you had made with Sandrine commenting GOT. I have just discovered them while looking for something which might make time fly faster till April 2016.
Hodors Bastard,
Dickless armies (or at least troops) actually did exist! You are right, the rest is fantastic.
I still hold out a vague hope that LSH will be relevant in the end. However, if I had to bet money, then I would get that she will prove to be an irrelevant tangent with no important effect on the primary protagonists.
Lollius Palicanus,
What GRRM should have done to keep it one book was not add any of the new protagonists and PoV characters. If he really wanted to develop plot points in Dorne or the Iron Islands, then he should have gotten one of the established protagonists there.
GRRM also should have actively sought help from an editor. His Meereenes Knot was not that hard to unravel: he (like many writers) was just “too close to it” to properly distinguish the forest for the trees.
SerNoName,
You are dead-on here. Morality lessons are for fairy tales: and one “truth” of GRRM’s tale is that fairy tales are all propaganda.
No, but it was pretty obvious that the message was not to be too focussed on revenge. If he hadn’t been blinded by hatred, he’d be alive.
When did this happen?
Also, LSH isn’t a Stark, she’s the figurehead of the BWB, a brotherhood that will eventually crumble, and once that happens, the Frey’s have nothing to pin their revenge on.
Top five, at least! It worked as an epilogue, giving us a peek thematically into what was to come. It gave us insight into the drudging Frey mindset (nothing better than a good villain–and nothing better than humanizing that villain to an extent). And it completely flipped the table on my expectations. Probably the most unexpected twist in the series yet, as far as “I totally have a bead on what’s going to happen” was concerned. Because I did not see that coming.
Gimme your top 5 chapters!
Shy Lady Dragon,
Thanks! Sandrine (my boss) has moved to Paris, unfortunately, so it makes doing weekly reviews problematic. That said, she is hoping that, once she gets the screeners, she can fly back to L.A. and we can knock out like four in one night. MY fingers are crossed.
I Dream of Spring,
I assume their opinion of her is the same as mine,she sucks as a character and as a plotline . Of course being that they are respectful to George they can’t outright say their true feelings on the matter .
Laura,
I actually liked Catelyn so please don’t generalise,the zombie crap is a different story .
Axechucker,
Weasel Soup
Tyrion and his mountain pets meet Tywin
Jon at Craster’s Keep
Theon loses Winterfell
Your meat is bloody tough
-all subject to change
Axechucker,
Ned’s last chapter.
The RW.
Jaime in the tub.
Tyrions trial.
Arya’s last chapter in ASOS.
Honarable mentions: Dany in Astapor and Dany at Yunkai. Wierdly while I consider this to be good moments in the books, these are by far my favourite scenes in the show.
That’s an excellent list. Still not quite over the exclusion of Weasel Soup on the show. I mean, I get it, but I really wanted it.
I loved Theon losing Winterfell too. Practically what made Theon my favorite character in the series.
Mihnea,
RW is of course in my top 5. Absolute horrifying poetry. And Jaime in the tub… One of my best interviewing memories was trying to grill Nikolaj and Gwendoline about the possible inclusion of a tub scene in season 3. They of course refused to answer, but their eyes veritably twinkled. You could tell the scene was a special culmination for them as well, so they practically said it… even when they didn’t say it.
Laura
You do realize that you seem just as much of an assclown defending LSH as those assclowns who don’t like her, yeah? And to me LSH is nothing but a Pez Dispenser. Always was and always will be. My opinion has nothing to do with how you feel, have away.
Axey
There is no longer any reason to get out of bed if you and Sandrine don’t do the weekly reviews of GoT’s!! *tears* But I admit to being a bit pea green about Sandrine moving to France!!
Best chapters??? Gah….very hard to put it to five….already Mr. Sprite and Mihnea have give great ones as did you….
Here are a few more:
Chapter 55 – ACoK Catelyn sets into motion the whole mess letting Jaime go free and well we know the rest.
Arya’s last Chapter in ASoS leaving the Hound
ASoS Jaime and Brienne Tub but also the Fat Walda dowry part.
ADoD when Theon/Reek escapes Winterfell
Daeny almost giving away Drogon and then……DRACARYS!!!! ASoS
Most of this is coming from memory, some I had to look up the reference….so I might have it wrong, those more wise can correct me.
Axey…..I hope you do come back and do the recaps. I have seen you do them by yourself ya know…… 🙂
Thank you for joining us on this trek through Ice and Fire, everyone. I was particularly nervous/excited to reach this fabled Epilogue and the end of Storm — feels strange now that it’s over.
JCDavis,
Kind words, ser. Yes, I did one season of solo reviews for TVEquals/Happy Cool. Sadly, Axeyfabulous did not attain enough weekly views to recoup its weekly $5 budget. My brilliance went unnoticed! One and done!
(That’s me: the Firefly of YouTube Game of Thrones reviews.)
(I’m gonna trademark that.)
You have a good chapter list too; getting a “top 5” is really difficult. But I guess it should be.
Fortunately, I never bend a knee..it is more of an awkward curtsy. No Ser’s here. And maybe … I think there are enough Axey fans… we can help to generate what you would need to continue on with the recaps. Not sure what that means exactly, but we are smarter than the average bears. Something could be worked out I think.
Laura
You are right, there is a distinction. I was judging from your many posts on this thread and the wording “you” chose for descriptions of those who would make you feel less than for your thoughts on LSH. Seems the ol’ pot calling kettle sort of thing to me. In the end I am willing to let it go, it isn’t that important to me. I mean really, what point is there for me to defend a Pez Dispenser? I am sure that I love characters that you might find unacceptable.
Oh boy, the good ole LSH-discussion. To me, it sums up as follows:
What is it again that made aSoIaF so special vs. standard genre fare out there ? *Anyone can die and whoever dies stays dead*. That´s what put the extra spice into the cycle. Mr. Martin threw that out of the window when he introduced LSH at the end of aSoS. He jumped the shark. Does not mean you don´t have to like her. Does not mean that Mr. Martin doesn´t have grand plans for her. Simply means that aSoIaF has declined ever since and become common-ground material.
Should D&D introduce her anyway, pls only to let Wun Wun step on and squash her within the first two minutes of appearance.
Laura,
Regarding your last sentence in this post: I don’t think there is a lot we know about LS other than her thirst for vengeance.
I see already people forming full on opinions based on Beric Dondarrion losing his humanity one resurrection at a time, but if you count the chapters and lines she’s in the books so far, I find it extremely difficult to characterize her. Or possibly predict what possibilities her existence have.
Let’s just say that I am intrigued to say the least like Hodor’s Bastard upthread about her and am anxiously awaiting the next book.
JCDavis,
That would be up to Happy Cool, not myself! I hardly know how to operate a camera, much less edit a video.
(I think they’re secretly relieved there’s less work to do now.)
But honestly, no, I think I’m done with solo reviews. Thanks though!
Ser Oromis Locke,
I assure you, I was paying attention. What you are talking about is setup for future events, but my point still stands. So far, she hasn’t accomplished anything.
Mantarys,
I, too, would strongly preferer if you were to cover AFFC and ADOD through the combined reading order mentioned above.
Please consider it (and make sure to record while you do so).
first off great podcast and also great comments tonight ive enjoyed all the LSH banter.
top 5
1. Ned tower of joy flashback book 1
2. RW
3. Jon killed? Pink letter chapter { made me post for the first time at the other place}
4. Tyrion killing Tywin
5.The attack in the mountains of the vale
Rygritte or Ygritte? I think you have me confused with someone else.
Dolorous Ned,
and I bet you haven´t read the comments at L7R…they´re beyond brutal 🙁
Testing…tried a zillion times to respond to Axey…won’t take. :/
Edit: Maybe this time….
Hey…I will miss your candor. Find some way to get your thoughts out there. Humor will be mandatory during the ultra-revelatory S6.
Although my top 5 shifts like words in the winds of winter, here’s my FTW stabby-stab at it:
1) Jon XIII (ADwD)……“Ghost.”
2) Dany X (ADwD)……Fire and Blood
3) Mercy (TWoW)……Can’t be late for the rape!
4) Theon I (TWoW)……Stannis, Theon, Asha, Tycho…madness before the carnage!
5a) Barristan I (TWoW)…..Flying pale mare corpses!
5b) ADwD epilogue…..Paving the way with little birds!
5c) Samwell V (AFfC)…..Pate and the maester conspiracy!
The past is already written and treasured. As you can tell, I am a bit biased for the future.
Axechucker,
Holy guacamole Axey Fabulous. Can I get you to do something for me. Please get a hold of Kyle or Amin. I NEED a GUYS NIGHT OUT
Top 5 is toooooo difficult
edit: sorry, wrong thread
Hodors Bastard,
I can think of another way of describing it: Contrarian.
Top 5:
1. RW
2. Tyrion’s last chapter in ASOS
3. Cersei’s walk in ADWD
4. Joffrey’s wedding in ASOS
5. Catelyn’s last chapter in ACOK
No house of black and white
Cool idea to list the 5 favorite chapters. I had to look up which chapter number are they, but got them all right hopefully. I’d go with:
1. Eddard X, A Game of Thrones (Tower of Joy chapter)
2. The Kingbreaker, A Dance with Dragons (Barristan Selmy goes to arrest Hizdhar)
3. Jaime VI, A Feast for Crows (Riverrun siege and negotiations of surrender)
4. Jon XIII, A Dance with Dragons (Pink Letter & FTW)
5. most of Tyrion’s chapters in A Storm of Swords but if I must choose then probably Tyrion VI (where he and Tywin have words at the council on: the politics of war, the RW, Oberyn Martell etc)
Anna,
Ha we both have the same fave chapter happy days
Hey, I gave you a frothy and half-cocked response but the system ate it, as it does with many of my comments, so I will just say ‘Good! Never was one for bandwagons!’