Game of Owns: King Stannis

Episode 303 – King Stannis
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Return of the Slayer, and boundless feelings for action following the surrender of Mance Rayder. The North, the Wall, and Lord Snow will never be the same.

Discussion Topics
Pin the dagger on Jon Snow
Sam is back
Things have changed
Electing a new Lord Commander
Promising Coldhands
Living legends
Meeting atop the Wall
Pitching Jon Stark
Owns of the Chapter

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23 responses

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    1. Long time listener, first time poster. Love your podcast. Seconding the call for the Boiled Leather chapter order for Feast and Dance – such a better read this way.

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    2. Irish Thrones
      Irish Thrones – ‏@IrishThrones
      S6 filming at Magheramorne (The Wall & Castle Black)in Ireland continued & a ‘White Walker army’ was on scene!

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    3. Nice job, guys. Others beat me to it but I also highly recommend reading next 2 books in “Boiled Leather” order. Makes for a much smoother, more coherent and enjoyable read!

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    4. I agree as well. But probably, you are first going to read the next Dunk & Egg novella? Perhaps even both The Sword Sword and The Mystery Knight?

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    5. I think I’ll be the only one who would prefer if you read them separatly.

      In my opinion that’s how they should be read, the way the author intended it, rather then some fan-made order.

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    6. Mihnea:
      In my opinion that’s how they should be read, the way the author intended it, rather then some fan-made order.

      That’s not really true, though. I can’t find the reference, but I’m pretty sure that George did not want AFFC and ADWD to be split, but together they became too big to be published.

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    7. Lollius Palicanus,

      Correct – it was supposed to be one book but George’s publisher was expecting something and he had finished off some of the characters stories – enough to provide Feast. So much better in chronological order.

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    8. Cersei’s Brain,

      It was never meant to be in chronological order. The Dornish chapters, in particular, can’t be read that way or else the end of the AFFC Dornish plot is spoiled by the earlier chapters in ADWD (hence, why the chronological orderings have to propose workarounds for that).

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    9. Sean C.,

      Absolutely. Rereading in the Boiled Leather order is interesting and has value, but reading the books for the first time in that way makes no sense. It’s not how the books are meant to be read, it spoils things.

      It also ignores that books are meant to be something entire, one unit usually with a theme beginning to end, an opening to a close. Throwing together chapters from different books just because of chronology kills that.

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    10. Sue the Fury:
      Sean C.,
      Rereading in the Boiled Leather order is interesting and has value, but reading the books for the first time in that way makes no sense.

      The common complaint among “new” readers is that many of the anchor characters were missing from AFfC, which caused disorientation and alienation. By splicing in Jon, Dany and Tyrion’s arcs into the AFfC content, you address that complaint and the diverse, immensely robust, plot is tons more interesting and gratifying. Given Sean C’s concerns, there is a “new reader” BL order as well that addresses the “Dorne” issue. It has been debated heavily. There is no “spoilage” as both of you imply.

      Although it is not the end of the world if the books are read normally, I think it would be fascinating to listen to the GOO folk, a mix of Sullied and UnSullied, debate the books in combined BL order. This is quite a grand opportunity that shouldn’t be discarded so offhandedly.

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    11. Sue the Fury:
      Sean C.,

      It also ignores that books are meant to be something entire, one unit usually with a theme beginning to end, an opening to a close. Throwing together chapters from different books just because of chronology kills that.

      It’s not just about chronological order, though. AFFC and ADWD share many common themes, and lots of the arcs mirror each other. Cersei’s, Jon’s and Dany’s attempts at ruling, Bran’s and Arya’s supernatural traning (and Sansa’s not so supernatural, too), the Lannister children dealing with Tywin’s death, the questions of identity dealt with in Theon’s/Reek’s, Sansa’s/Alayne’s and Arya’s/No one’s chapters… I think reading the books alongside each other greatly enhances them

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    12. Another point to consider – and this is something that really only the GOO hosts can decide upon -is the speed of a podcast reading at two chapters a week whilst the tv show is off air, versus the normal pace of reading in which a reader may get through both books in 2 or 3 months. If GOO decide to read the books in published order it will be literally years until they start Dance. I only mention this because I found it jarring to suddenly have gone back in time and be on the boat with Tyrion drinking his way across the Narrow Sea, and I didn’t wait half as long for Dance as some readers did.

      Edited to add – the time it takes to read a book on podcast is fun when all the characters stories are progressing. Given that Feast/Dance are really two halves of the same story, to me it makes more sense to progress all the characters stories at the same time. And I’m saying this as someone whose favourite characters are all in Feast. Interesting to see what GOO decide to do!

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    13. I Dream of Spring: it makes more sense to progress all the characters stories at the same time.

      Agreed. I would expect a legacy reading order recommendation from westeros.org folk but not from this site. Although the showrunners took a tremendous amount of liberties in adaptation, they had to consider both AFfC & ADwD (& aspects from TWoW) in parallel. Why not GOO too?

      I have followed a number of ASoI&F online book readings that folks have facilitated in the past (including weirwoodtreehugger’s lush interpretations thru ASoS 🙂 ) but I do not know of any online group reading that did it in BL order. I think it would be quite a unique and innovative experience while avoiding the rambling and tiresome comments about consistency, missing anchor characters and plot drift sometimes generated when AFfC is read alone.

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    14. D&D changes: good Stannis parts given to Jon, bad Jon parts given to Stannis.

      In a decade or so ASOIF will be remade according to the books.

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    15. YES! Stannis = Javert! Javert is super obsessed with one (mistaken/wrong) goal, and does everything by the book and otherwise to get it . Stannis is likewise obsessed with one (in this case honorable/just) goal and does everything by the book and otherwise to get it. Any person who has grown up being bullied or passed over or overlooked even though they know in their hearts they are good and valid human beings should be rooting for Stannis.

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