Game of Thrones Season 8 Teaser Analysis: The Forks in the River

dragon

In case you missed it, today we got our first teaser trailer from the upcoming final season of Game of Thrones and it has lit the fandom on fire speculating about the details contained in the 55-second animation. Relatively short, no actors or scenes from the upcoming season actually appeared in it. We in this community have a reputation of overanalyzing every little thing that comes out of HBO, and I’m here to uphold that fine tradition. Let’s dive right in and see what we can tease out of the upcoming season in this animation.

  1. Flaming Lion and Frozen Direwolf

Dany-Tyrion-Painted-Table

The teaser begins with an image of the Painted Table of Aegon the Conqueror at Dragonstone where we last saw Daenerys and her small council making war plans. A slow mist rolls out of the North freezing figurines of a direwolf, a dragon and then the entire North as its fingers of frost reach south. In response, a fire appears in the South and begins sweeping North to meet the mist. The flames engulf a Lannister lion and eventually the entire southern part of the map.

wolf

The meanings here are clear, the White Walkers are represented by the mist rolling from the Wall freezing everything in their path. The frozen dragon representing Viserion. The implication for the Starks though is rather grim. The direwolf represents Winterfell, so this implies that the castle will fall before the armies of the dead.

dragon

And if the symbolism of Viserion holds, perhaps some of the Starks may even join the army of the damned. An often forgotten fact of Winterfell is that the Crypts of Winterfell contain thousands of years of Stark corpses. Kings of Winter, Wardens of the North, brothers and sisters of house Stark all buried in tombs. Should the White Walkers breach the Walls and the Crypts, the long dead Kings of Winter may join the army of the Night King. Or perhaps more recent members of the family, such as Rickon or Lyanna Stark- or some of the remaining Stark living like Bran, Sansa, Arya, or Jon.

lion

The blazing lion figurine as well likely spells doom for its signature house. By the end of last season, Cersei is alone. Jaime has deserted her when she indicated she would break her bargain with Dany and Tyrion. Her armies are severely reduced after Drogon and the Dothraki destroyed them in the Loot Train battle. If Dany suspects treachery out of the sitting Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, Casterly Rock or the Red keep may get the Harrenhal treatment. In addition, while Jaime has become a formidable general his own battle prowess is still pitiful without his dominant hand. And he’s still reviled across the kingdom as the Kingslayer, the man without Honor as well as having Bran Stark’s attempted murder looming over him like it did for Littlefinger. Tyrion isn’t safe either going into this conflict, his primary weapon remains his mind and as he’s joked in the past he hasn’t found a way to kill anyone with it yet. The fiery doom of House Lannister in this teaser looms as ever present as it does for the Starks.

2. The Wall of Glass

obsidian

The climax of the trailer is when the waves of fire and ice meet in the middle of Westeros. They crash into each other like a horse charge slamming into a shield wall and from that some sort of crystal erupts from the ground. The first thought is that this is dragonglass, or obsidian, being formed from the collision of the opposing primal forces. Dragonglass is often called frozen fire for good reason, it is magma from volcanoes that rapidly cools before it has a chance to form crystals. Such as when magma erupts from the ground and slams into water, which works for this symbolic collision. It is unclear if this is meant to be taken literally, that as Daenerys and her forces meet the Night King in combat and fissures will open up, and dragonglass will be formed in large amounts.

Some fans are taking this as a “new wall” to replace the previously destroyed one. Seeing as the White Walkers are destroyed by the substance at a touch, this would be a very effective barrier for them.

obsidian2

The less tinfoily view of this is that their battleground will be destructive in a way that only natural disasters can produce. A battle front hundreds of miles long, dragons laying down swathes of fire, the freshly slain rising against their own comrades, total destruction of the landscape. Even if the armies of the living win, all of Westeros will never be the same. For perhaps another 5000-1000 years. Either way, a cataclysm of some sort is being hinted at strongly.

3. The Trident

battle

The most intriguing part of this epic scene showing ice and fire clashing is where the fight is happening. Because this is the painted table of Aegon, the same one used by Stannis and later Dany on Dragonstone, we can actually pick out where this clash is happening on the map. Just by eyeballing it, the two appear to meet right in the middle of Westeors which is in the Riverlands around the Trident, Harrenhal, Riverrun, and the Twins. Taking a closer look and we can actually see the three forks of the river Trident acting as a boundary between ice and fire. And this is no accident or a convenient place for the animations to meet. The Trident and its forks have enormous foreshadowing and history behind them as the battleground between life and death.

map

The most recent example is the fateful duel between the rebel Robert Baratheon and Prince Rhaegar Targaryen. The royal army led by Rhaegar finally met Robert in battle just east of the three forks of the Trident at what would be known as the Ruby Ford. It was named not only for the rubies that erupted from Rhaegar’s breastplate when Robert’s warhammer caved it in, but the enormous amounts of blood spilled into the river from the battle. Interestingly this moment is one that swayed history in a major way away from Rhaegar’s plans.

Unbeknownst to most people in the realm, Rhaegar was heavily interested in prophecy and the return of dragons. Related from Maester Aemon in the books,

Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King’s Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who thought ourselves so wise! – A Feast for Crows, Samwell IV

He believed that Rhaegar would return from the Trident, depose the Mad King in a Great Council, and make sure the realm was prepared for the inevitable return of the darkness and the Long Night. As was related to Jaime Lannister:

Rhaegar had put his hand on Jaime’s shoulder. “When this battle’s done I mean to call a council. Changes will be made. I meant to do it long ago, but . . . well, it does no good to speak of roads not taken. We shall talk when I return.” A Feast for Crows, Jaime I

Had Rhaegar won the day and returned victorious, the White Walkers may never have invaded. This is the nature of the Trident and the surrounding areas like Harrenhal, the God’s Eye, the Isle of Faces, High Heart, and the Inn at the Crossroads. Long before Rhaegar, the fate of kings and wars and Westeros itself swung wildly.

Harrenhal was the seat of Black Harren Hoare and the single largest castle ever constructed in Westeros. Aegon the Conqueror burned the castle and roasted its owners alive from Balerion as a show of force for what happens when you resist the Dragon.

King Maegor the Cruel secured his throne in a battle known as the “Battle Beneath the Gods Eye” where he lead his army from Balerion the Black Dread’s back against his nephew Prince Aegon Targaryen. When Maegor killed Aegon and his dragon, it secured his rule for another five bloody and horrific years. Similarly Prince Daemon Targaryen and Prince Aemond “One-Eye” Targaryen fought another battle on dragonback in what was known as the “Battle Above the Gods Eye” for control of Westeros. In this battle though, both riders and dragons died and fell into the sacred waters of the Gods Eye.

The Inn at the Crossroads is the very same inn where the Starks and Lannisters were staying on their way back from Winterfell when Arya and Joffrey fought, and Mycah and Lady were killed. It’s the inn where Catelyn and Ser Rodrik run into Tyrion Lannister and place him under arrest for the attempted murder of Bran Stark. Also where Hot Pie ends up working and Arya decides between murdering Cersei and returning home to Winterfell.

But the most important historical event, especially with this teaser in mind, is the surrender of King Torrhen Stark. Aegon, his sisters, their dragons, and their enormous army stood on one side of the Trident and King Torrhen’s Northern army stood on the other. Torrhen heard from his scouts the smoking ruin of Harrenhal and the enormous loss of life at the Field of Fire, but he had fateful choices in front of him. With the might of Aegon, the smart move for the North was a surrender. However the Northern Lords behind him urged that they fight against Aegon anyway, they were Northerners and tough and they wouldn’t surrender their lands easily. And then one final option from Torrhen’s bastard brother, Brandon Snow. Brandon offered to kill all three dragons, almost assuredly with weirwood arrows, and then they would try and beat the Targaryens and their new allies on the field of battle.

Torrhen chose wisely and knelt, however this is the original conflict of ice and fire at the Trident. A moment of destiny, a fork in the river, a single choice. If you recognize the name Torrhen Stark it’s because he was brought up last season prominently in the scene between Daenerys and Jon where she demands Jon kneel. The parallels between Torrhen and Aegon, Jon and Daenerys, and the dragons and the White Walkers are very intriguing as we head into the last season. Especially with this curious dream from Dany in the books.

That night she dreamt that she was Rhaegar, riding to the Trident. But she was mounted on a dragon, not a horse. When she saw the Usurper’s rebel host across the river they were armored all in ice, but she bathed them in dragonfire and they melted away like dew and turned the Trident into a torrent. Some small part of her knew that she was dreaming, but another part exulted. This is how it was meant to be. The other was a nightmare, and I have only now awakened. – A Storm of Swords, Daenerys III

The stage is set for fire and ice to meet once again at the Trident. The names of the Forks foreshadow the conflict itself. The Red, Blue, and Green Forks are the three branches of the river. Red being fire, blue being ice, green being life. The Trident splits between these three choices and concepts, and as does fate itself. How will it play out this time?

Will the King of Winter kneel again to the dragons? Will we get another Battle above and beneath the Gods Eye? A Targaryen prince dying in the river with his love’s name on his lips? The Trident is where the fate of Westeros will be decided. And to quote the poem that inspired the name of the series “A Song of Ice and Fire”, Fire and Ice by Robert Frost:

Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I’ve tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.

53 responses

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    1. Should be interesting

      Seems like they’ll end up clashing around Kings Landing

      I’m still wondering if the part of a Dragon flying over Red Keep from Brans dream will come into it or if that ends up being a form of “continuity error” in the end

      The notion of Night King flying Viserion over KL as an intimidation tactic is quite something

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    2. As much as I love the thought of the ghosts from the Stark crypts rising and causing trouble, I don’t see how the bodies could be raised. Because there aren’t any. At best it’d be a bunch of jangling skeletons running around a la Jason and the Argonauts. At worst it’d be very angry dust.

      I don’t want to contemplate Ghost being wightified, but that’d be difficult as well since he’s a cardboard cutout in the background every 9th episode.

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    3. Anyone else spotted the Unsullied mark piece in the North 0.11-0.16, and the burning Martell and possibly Tyrell sigils in the south at 0.19 near their respective regions?

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    4. I’m not sure the frozen dragon represents Viserion. To me, the imagery of the wolf, the unsullied and the dragon being consumed by ice shows that they will face the NK and his undead army. The fact that the lion and the horse (the GC) are bathed in fire, to me represents that they will face an army of fire (Dany and her dragon(s) and possible the red priests and priestesses). To me this suggests that battle for the north will occur first with at least one dragon surviving (I suspect Rhaegar will die) and then the battle on the south between the surging northern alliance forces and Cersei and the GC. I’m not sure on the significance of the wall of dragon glass yet.

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    5. Pigeon:
      As much as I love the thought of the ghosts from the Stark crypts rising and causing trouble, I don’t see how the bodies could be raised. Because there aren’t any. At best it’d be a bunch of jangling skeletons running around a la Jason and the Argonauts. At worst it’d be very angry dust.

      I don’t want to contemplate Ghost being wightified, but that’d be difficult as well since he’s a cardboard cutout in the background every 9th episode.

      I’m also of the opinion that the Others wouldn’t be able to raise dead people who have been dead a long time. The skeletal wights we see on the show, in my opinion, are probably very old wights who have degraded over the millennia.

      LOL, on Ghost being immune to bad circumstances because of the budget! That’s a good point.

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    6. Ghost Lunch,
      IIRC the dragon over KL was in what looked like bright summer weather, the type they’ve had until very recently? Unless as you say they quietly forget or alter it, if it was a vision from the future it would have to be when this current winter is over. I think many of us assume KL will be destroyed, so perhaps it’s rebuilt. I dunno, just stretching my speculation wings here after a long break with not much to go on.

      Pigeon:
      At worst it’d be very angry dust.

      Love it 😀

      So, people who know much more about the story than I do. Is there a time limit on how long someone/thing has been dead that they can be wighted? Otherwise they could just rock up to graveyards, old battle grounds etc and get a load of new recruits all at once?

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    7. Because this is the painted table of Aegon, the same one used as a model in the opening sequences of the show

      The map in the opening sequence is much more detailed than the painted table, and includes the whole world and not just Westeros.

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    8. On the wights and NK raising the dead……I can see that a very hot fire can destroy wights for good if they are consumed/vaporized into gas. It also seems that dragon glass can kill both white walkers and wights.

      But if the wights are just cut up like at dragon pit when they cut off wight’s hand etc….Can the Night King just raise a wight up intact a second time? Or can he can raise up only people that died intact? What about people that died in pieces? It seems to me that in a region where the major weapon is a sword many of the dead have cuts as the cause of death..so NK may be able to raise dead that are cut to pieces…why only once, why not two or three times over and over.

      And does he have to raise his arms? Was he just being dramatic at Hardhome when he raised his arms and the dead got up? If they cut off NK’s arms then, it is the end of his raising the dead?

      I know this is child’s question. But humor me.

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    9. rizwan,

      Exactly. I feel like the only person who doesn’t think this is foreshadowing or symbolizing anything. For one, we know where the major battles are taking place and they’re not at the Neck. Two, the clear symbolization is the song of ice and fire. Two perfect halves–which is why they’re meeting at the Neck, each taking up half of Westeros. I’m not really getting any more than that, and I don’t think they would give anything more. They know people are going to scrutinize the hell out of it and they’ve gone through enough trouble to hide spoilers to give away anything in a silly teaser. The meaning of it is simply, “Fire and ice are meeting for a final showdown, and here are the three major houses left who are involved.” The end.

      Can’t wait for the actual trailer for some footage!

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    10. Ghost Lunch,

      It’s unlikely they’ll credit it as an error. They’ll just say it was a symbolic prophecy showing Dany eventually reaching King’s Landing, or something. Prophecies in GoT are never as they appear, after all.

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    11. Maybe the magic wall was stopping his impact up to S7, but now that he has crossed, what are his constraints?
      What is his range for raising and controlling of the dead? At Hardhome he raised the dead from a distance, how close does he need to be?
      Can he just fly Viserion over Westeros and raise the dead from above? Can he only raise the dead when he is walking?
      Why not just stay where he is now and raise the dead all the way to Dorne?

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    12. Why are you certain that the dragon pog is Viserion? To be consistent, then the direwolf one would have to be Ghost. If that’s so, then the dragon pog could just as easily be Rhaegal or Drogon. Generally, the pogs represent fighting forces, right? There is no pog on the table that reps the night king and his forces, unless you’re saying that single dragon pog belongs to the night king and his forces instead of Dany? If that is so, then where is Dany’s pog?

      Another interesting thing is how the northern and southern pogs are facing each other from across that imaginary border in the center of the continent.

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    13. I do believe the demon monkey has found a way to kill people with his mind. He is Littlefinger’s heir: a small man casting a very large shadow.

      When Varys put that question to Tyrion in the form of a riddle, he was trying to tell Tyrion that Littlefinger is the one who got Nedd killed… the “small man” being a play on Littlefinger’s nickname, his stature and the place he’s from. Tyrion the Narcissist took it to be himself. Now, maybe he has truly taken casting large shadows to heart and will get a lot of people killed with his treachery.

      I think Dany will be betrayed and Tyrion is an excellent candidate to do so. She has shown several times that she’s suspicious of him, starting from Mereen where she stared him down until he acknowledged that nobody needs a Master. She’s bawled him out twice about his military failures and declined to tell him that the KITN had bent the knee to her – a startling omission!

      She can’t be betrayed by an enemy, only a close friend. The only candidates are Tyrion, Jon, Jorah, Missandei, Greyworm, Varys. I’m picking Tyrion.

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    14. Nothing against those that want to, but this time I’m not going to try to read anything deep into and out of this teaser. While it’s interesting to think about it, we’ve seen a lot of this early promo stuff doesn’t truly mean anything deeper than “do something cool that displays (X) theme in some way.” This time I’m not falling for it and saying it’s just a cool visual they came up with to show the total Westerosi war that’s going to happen to close out the story of A Song of Ice and Fire (with the theme of the teaser being Ice and Fire). 🙂

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    15. Mango,

      “And does he have to raise his arms? Was he just being dramatic at Hardhome when he raised his arms and the dead got up? If they cut off NK’s arms then, it is the end of his raising the dead?”

      The Night King is pure drama queen.

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    16. Apollo,
      Oh, of course she did. I’m not very good on the geography of where the dragon pit is in relation to the rest of KL but if I was her I’d be going a needlessly long route just to show off Targ Force One to the population. No good trying to use something as a threat/deterrent etc if no-one knows about it 😉

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    17. “The names of the Forks foreshadow the conflict itself. The Red, Blue, and Green Forks are the three branches of the river. Red being fire, blue being ice, green being life. The Trident splits between these three choices and concepts, and as does fate itself.”

      The most interesting thing to me is the focus on the color of green as Fire and Ice meet. We saw in Sam’s book Dragonglass is a healing agent, and Stannis told us that there are different colors of Dragonglass. The focus on this, the location (Trident and the Isle of Faces) makes me think we are going to see something far more interesting than a battle at this particular location. The battle might happen as well, but just because Rhaegar died in battle at that location doesn’t warrant the prominent inclusion in the first trailer of the last season of the most popular show in history. The game is afoot.

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    18. I can’t believe people are analyzing this teaser. It was probably made by effects artists with no intimate knowledge of how season 8 will turn out.

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    19. Interesting read and I’ve also seen Joanna Robinson speculating about this on twitter however a battle on the Trident would go against what limited filming news we’ve seen which suggests a battle at Winterfell and a smaller one at Kings Landing. Team Targ may well be defeated in the North though and they are faced to retreat South possibly in episode 4 before a final showdown in episode 5 with Nights King and one final betrayal by Cersei with wildfire.

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    20. rizwan:
      If all of this is easily interpreted like this, isn’t it a spoiler? I don’t think HBO would give us this much information.

      I thought the same but Joanna Robinson makes an interesting reference to S7 teaser were the blue eyed dragon was teased (easier to pick up on re-watch), so there is an out side chance of them hinting something here.

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    21. The people creating the teasers are given direction. No I don’t think they’re told every detail of season 8 but they don’t have free rein to make whatever they want about GoT. Teaser-makers are generally told by Fire & Blood Productions something, even if it’s vague like a theme, a visual to go with. So we can’t discount it.

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    22. The obsession with the climactic battle being held at the Trident and the Gods Eye and the Isle of Faces appearing is obviously a book readers’ thing. People who have been musing on that theory for years and are projecting it onto the TV show.

      The Trident holds little significance on the show. I think it’s been mentioned only a few times. Most viewers might vaguely recognise it, with some prompting, as the location of Rhaegar’s defeat, but few would be marvelling at the significance of the final showdown being held there.

      And with only 6 episodes to go it’s hard to believe that they will have time for a conflict in The North / at Winterfell, some form of conflict at King’s Landing (be it an Army of the Dead or Targ/Westerosi assault) and squeeze in a huge pitched battle at the Trident for good measure.

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    23. Rickard Greyjoy:
      Did Ned’s bones make it home to Winterfell? Would be very GRRMish to bring him back that way. Ha.

      In the books, no his bones are still missing. They disappeared on their way back to the North. I’m unsure of their status in the show, I seem to remember Catelyn receiving them from Littlefinger?

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    24. JoeMagician: In the books, no his bones are still missing. They disappeared on their way back to the North. I’m unsure of their status in the show, I seem to remember Catelyn receiving them from Littlefinger?

      They were sent to Winterfell with a honor guard. But they disappeared in the bogs of the Neck.

      Is quite obvious that Howland Reed is keeping Ned’s bones at Greywater Watch until it’s safe to send them to Winterfell.

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    25. JoeMagician,

      On the show, in S2, LF delivered Ned’s bones to Catelyn…and then proceeded to hit on her. (How gross!)

      Giving Ned’s remains to Cat was supposed to be a show of “good faith” from Tyrion when LF went to Cat on behalf of the Lannisters to propose the Jaime-for-Arya & Sansa hostage exchange – but that proposal was a deception* all along since – as LF knew full well since S2e1 – the Lannisters didn’t have Arya.

      *(“Deception” is the word Tyrion used to describe the bogus hostage exchange.)

      As a result of LF’s perfidy, Cat betrayed Robb and freed the Kingslayer; Lord Karstark, deprived of his revenge against Jaime, killed two young Lannister boys and got beheaded; Robb lost half his army; and Jaime made it back to KL, but neither Sansa nor Arya were returned to the Starks.

      I assumed Ned’s bones were entombed in the crypts of WF (inside that monument that Sansa and Arya, in S7e4, said didn’t look like him). As a show-only fan, I don’t know what happened to Ned’s remains in the books.

      Either way, would there be a tomb carved for a Stark in the WF crypts with no corpse or bones inside it? That would seem like a hollow gesture.

      (I’ll see myself out…) 🤭

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    26. Ten Bears: I assumed Ned’s bones were entombed in the crypts of WF (inside that monument that Sansa and Arya, in S7e4, said didn’t look like him). As a show-only fan, I don’t know what happened to Ned’s remains in the books.

      They are either with Holland Reed or in transit, as Lady Ryswell Dustin has people watching for them as she has fault with Ned for not bringing her husbands bones back, just his horse.

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    27. Lulus Mum,

      If I had had a dragon, I would have ridden it everywhere. The institute where I work is not equipped with a suitable parking lot, but maybe my dragon would have liked to lounge on the roof.
      Good to see you around, Mother of Cats!

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    28. Ten Bears,

      I assumed Ned’s bones were entombed in the crypts of WF (inside that monument that Sansa and Arya, in S7e4, said didn’t look like him).

      I suppose to remember, that one of them – Arya? – in the crypts in front of Ned’s statue said “It doesn’t matter, he ist not here”. One can understand: of course not, because he’s dead, but one can also understand: his body (bones) is (are) not here.

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    29. cos alpha,

      I’m not sure I remember either Sansa or Arya saying Ned’s remains weren’t in his tomb. Here’s their entire conversation in the WF crypts in S7e4:

      Arya & Sansa in WF crypts S7e4

      (Arya in front of Ned’s tomb when Sansa arrives)

      Arya: “Do I have to call you Lady Stark now?”
      Sansa: “Yes.”
      (They hug)
      Sansa: “You shouldn’t have run from the guards.”
      Arya: “I didn’t run. You need better guards. 😁 It suits you, ‘Lady Stark.’ Jon left you in charge?”
      Sansa: “He did. I hope he comes back soon. I remember how happy he was to see me. When he sees you, his heart will probably stop.”
      (Looking up at Ned’s tomb)
      Arya: “It doesn’t look like him. Should’ve been carved by someone who knew his face.”
      Sansa: “Everyone who knew his face is dead.”
      Arya: “We’re not…They say you killed Joffrey. Did you?”
      Sansa: “I wish I had.”
      Arya: “Hmm. Me too. I was angry when I heard someone else had done it. However long my list got, he was always first.”
      Sansa: “Your list?”
      Arya: “Of people I’m going to kill.”
      (Sansa laughs; thinks Arya’s joking)
      Sansa: “How did you get back to Winterfell?”
      Arya: “It’s a long story. I imagine yours is, too.”
      Sansa: “Yes. Not a very pleasant one.”
      Arya: “Mine neither. But our stories aren’t over yet.”
      Sansa: “No, they’re not… Arya, Bran’s home, too.”

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    30. Shy Lady Dragon,

      How about some Tinfoil Exegesis from an unrepentant Sandor Fanboy?

      I interpret this teaser to be a visual metaphor for the duality of The Hound/Sandor Clegane:

      The Lannister lion in the south consumed by fire represents the formerly misanthropic Hound’s blind loyalty to weasel Joffrey and House Lannister, and his disfigurement by fire and bugging out at the fiery Battle of the Blackwater.

      The wolf & dragon covered by snow and ice in the north signify the redeemed Sandor’s conversion into a guardian of the Stark wolf girls and his loyalty to Team Targ, along with his physical relocation to the frozen north.

      Those two diametrically opposed aspects of his character melding with each other halfway result in the “frozen fire” of dragonglass.

      The teaser is an affirmation of a few subtly embedded clues along the way…

      Melisandre: “He is the Lord’s Chosen.”
      Renly: “Is he a ham?”
      Hot Pie: “A face like a half-burned ham.”
      Pod: “The Hound.”
      Hot Pie: “That’s the one.”

      Sandor = Warrior of Light aka Azor Ahai confirmed!

      ………………..
      Allow me to preemptively ridicule what I wrote, before anyone else has the chance:

      “Whatever you’re smoking, Ten Bears, I want some.”
      • “Are you on drugs or off your meds?”

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    31. Ten Bears,

      You are right, Ten Bears. I watched this scene again – I was so sure, someone said.
      And I also watched episode 7.01, Jon and f*ing LF in the crypts, when f*ing LF told Jon, he was the one, who personally brought Ned’s bones back to Cat *blabla*, so that they could be burried in WF… that implies Ned’s bones are there.

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    32. Fuck the teaser! Me and my pet raven ‘Carmelo’ (he says caw-caw) are getting really pissed off with all this hanging around for GoT to grace our TV screens for the final time. It will have been a 2 year wait and just hope its worth it and lives up to all the hype :p

      For the millionth time (well it seems like it!) Sky Atlantic will be re-running the entire series again. Think from the 15th Dec. I’ve seen the re-runs so many times, I know the lines pretty much verbatim – Well, perhaps quite not as well as Ten Bears, but I reckon he cheats and has all the scripts printed out 😉

      I’ll probably drop in yet again from time to time if I remember the nights its shown… “It is known!” 😀

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    33. Ten Bears,

      Definitely “whatever you’re smoking…” and yes, I remember that I laughed watching the iconic scene of Meg Ryan in When Harry Met Sally, after the initial shock that someone had had the courage to imagine such a scene and had put it in a film – I was very young young then!
      I like your exegesis, both because it’s imaginative and because I myself am a Hound & Rory fan.

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    34. Shy Lady Dragon: July

      Thank you 🙂 I went into knowing I was going over the top but I enjoyed doing it and organizing my thoughts about the end of the show coming with a prompt like this. Even if I’m reading way more into it than was intended (probable), doesn’t make the ideas about the areas around the Trident being where this series will end wrong. Those are still very well foreshadowed and set up in book and show. Fingers crossed that we don’t get another dead Targaryen prince or princess in the Trident.

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    35. Ten Bears:
      JoeMagician,

      On the show, in S2, LF delivered Ned’s bones to Catelyn…and then proceeded to hit on her. (How gross!)

      Giving Ned’s remains to Cat was supposed to be a show of “good faith” from Tyrion when LF went to Cat on behalf of the Lannisters to propose the Jaime-for-Arya & Sansa hostage exchange – but that proposal was a deception* all along since – as LF knew full well since S2e1 – the Lannisters didn’t have Arya.

      *(“Deception” is the word Tyrion used to describe the bogus hostage exchange.)

      As a result of LF’s perfidy, Cat betrayed Robb and freed the Kingslayer; Lord Karstark, deprived of his revenge against Jaime, killed two young Lannister boys and got beheaded; Robb lost half his army; and Jaime made it back to KL, but neither Sansa nor Arya were returned to the Starks.

      I assumed Ned’s bones were entombed in the crypts of WF (inside that monument that Sansa and Arya, in S7e4, said didn’t look like him). As a show-only fan, I don’t know what happened to Ned’s remains in the books.

      Either way, would there be a tomb carved for a Stark in the WF crypts with no corpse or bones inside it? That would seem like a hollow gesture.

      (I’ll see myself out…) 🤭

      Yes, there are empty tombs for lords in there. Certain kings and lords whose bodies couldn’t be recovered like Brandon the Shipwright who sailed west into the Sunset Sea and was never seen again. Or Rickard Stark who was burned alive in his armor. Unclear if there was anything left to bury when Aerys and the wildfire was done with him. They also cut them out ahead of time, so most members of house Stark know roughly which tombs will be theirs although the statues don’t come until later for the Lords and kings.

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