Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 – Eastwatch – Episode Chat

Macall B. Polay - HBO (Photo 2) (4)

Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 5 “Eastwatch”
Director: Matt Shakman
Runtime: 59 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Violence
Video Preview: Eastwatch

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Please use spoiler coding when discussing ASOIAF book or filming spoilers- any material that has not aired or been discussed on Game of Thrones.  Please do not post ANY leak spoilers in this Chat post before it airs on HBO! Leak discussion is only permitted in our Quarantine forum.  If you haven’t yet joined our Community Forums, now would be the perfect time to do so! Thank you for your consideration.

General guidelines: Spoiler coding is required in the Chat post prior to the “Eastwatch” official airing (9PM EDT tonight!). Please cover and label your spoilers appropriately. After the episode has aired, you don’t have to cover spoilers from the episode anymore. Have a great night and enjoy the episode!

Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

675 Comments

  1. Tonight is bound to be a more low key affair after the craziness of the last episode.

    Still, every episode until the end is likely to be packed with a heavy dose of revelations and foreshadowing.

    Can’t wait

  2. Ready and waiting here (for 2AM GMT) – just re-watching last week’s episode in peace 🙂

  3. A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

  4. the singular place name of the show makes me think of hardhome. with only 3 episodes left this season, i’m expecting the action to continue and some good battle action tonight.

  5. Dragon will either lick his face or try to hump his leg.

    Dany might do the same.

    Either’s good anyhow.

  6. stefan666:
    A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

    It’s really disappointing.

  7. Jack Bauer 24,

    Disappointment appears to be your default setting. Really not seeing what you guys are seeing here. I can see Dany still sitting up on top of Drogon in the wide shot and he looks frigging huge. As for size comparison I trust the effects guys who are total pros much more than somebody watching a five second clip (shot with Jon) which doesn’t even show Drogon’s whole head, just his snout.

  8. stefan666:
    A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

    I checked a YouTube clip of the 6×9 scene and tried to freeze it with Drogon’s head at the same angle as in the clip above with Jon and it looks to me that he is quite a bit larger now next to Jon. Dany comes up about to Drogon’s eyes while Jon only is about level with his nostrils. So I don’t see an inconsistency there.

    Yeah, I am really that bored this Sunday afternoon!

  9. Loving that we will get the same director; so here’s to hoping for another epic GoT episode and can’t believe we are nearly finished with this season

  10. Stoked for tonight. Should be some fantastic dialog between the Lannister brothers- assuming Jaime is held captive. Excited to watch Tyrion play the hostage card in a plea for Dany to spare Jaime, for now. At least this is my guess… And what will happen to Bronn? The aftermath of this battle has me most hyped for this episode.

  11. Lord of Coffee: I checked a YouTube clip of the 6×9 scene and tried to freeze it with Drogon’s head at the same angle as in the clip above with Jon and it looks to me that he is quite a bit larger now next to Jon.Dany comes up about to Drogon’s eyes while Jon only is about level with his nostrils. So I don’t see an inconsistency there.

    Yeah, I am really that bored this Sunday afternoon!

    Except Drogon’s head was lowered all the way to the ground in 6×9. In this one the lowest point of his head is at Jon’s waist. I’m not blind.

  12. stefan666: Except Drogon’s head was lowered all the way to the ground in 6×9. In this one the lowest point of his head is at Jon’s waist. I’m not blind.

    Nope. His head is NOT on the ground in the 6×9 clip. It looks just about the same distance off the ground as the clip above.

    But you’ve decided what you want to see.

  13. stefan666,

    Look at stills of Dany riding Drogon in season 6 and look at the very beginning of this preview clip. Drogon is much larger now. And again, the part you’re talking about with Jon, you’re looking at a side view of his snout only. Not his entire head.

  14. So excited for this episode! 😀
    Though a small, pessimistic part of my brain feels that, after the epicness of last week, this can almost only disappoint, lol.

  15. Let’s agree to disagree then. I’ll preserve my further judgment upon seeing the tonight’s episode.

  16. HBO better fucking chuck money at the final season. It’s the least they can do considering the sums they’re making out if this show.

  17. The most physically visceral reaction I ever had when reading ASOIAF was the Brienne chapter when Randyll fucking Tarly told her she could do with a good raping…….. No other character made me want to physically strangle them more than him. Hope Dany roasts the fuck outta him
  18. Wow. Now people have resorted to whining about how terrible the episode was before it even aired. Maybe there should be a special quarantine forum for boring nitpicky whiners too 🙂

    Anyway, I haven’t been reading much this week. Is there no episode description? I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

    Presumably we’re going to see lots of White Walker terror

    the dead things in the water letter

    from the book must be happening? I can’t wait. But I’m really worried for Tormund.

  19. Just watched the preview. The complaining about Drogons head is laughable. Did you guys get a ruler and measure? In 3 seconds we see a front angle with his mouth open with Jon standing at least 20 to 30 feet in front of him. Geez people.

  20. I think this episode will be the perfect time for the characters to assess their situations.
    We can count Drogon’s teeth later….let’s just enjoy the ride.

  21. Just give me a chat between Jon and Varys and I’ll be happy.

    Violator:

    Dragon will either lick his face or try to hump his leg.

    Dany might do the same.

    Either’s good anyhow.

    I thoroughly agree with this statement 😊

  22. I hope we actually see Eastwatch since it’s the title of the episode! Lol.

    I hope Drogon ate a breath mint.

  23. Current mental exercise: calibrating how many beers I can retrieve and open while keeping my eyes glued to the tv screen for fifty-nine minutes. Who says I’m not an intellectual?

  24. Violator,

    Can’t help but think of Christmas Vacation:

    Danny: “Now, Drogon, you roll over so cousin Jon can scratch your belly. Sorry ’bout that Jon. He’s got a bit of Mississippi leg hound in’em. Best just t’ let’m finish.

  25. I think regardless, we can all agree that the dragons have had a weird growth cycle that was convenient as shit for the show, and not 100% consistent with the random lore of past dragons. But those past dragons are just stories, can we really believe a bunch of medieval ppl telling stories about things they didn’t personally see anyway? And I’m no dragon expert either sooo….

  26. weirwoodtreehugger,

    That’s basically what the episode chat has come to before the episode airs. It’s always the same faces as well.

    I’m really looking forward to it myself, and even if it is a bit more talky/expositiony that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    Re the dragon head: people moan about the size of the dragons every year, and some of the same people who are moaning that they’re smaller this year moaned last year during the season that they were larger in Season 5.

    I swear some people take all the fun out of watching this fantastic show.

  27. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
    Just watched the preview. The complaining about Drogons head is laughable. Did you guys get a ruler and measure? In 3 seconds we see a front angle with his mouth open with Jon standing at least 20 to 30 feet in front of him. Geez people.

    I think they must be losing their touch at nitpicking.

  28. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: Your epitaph will probably read: “He was disappointed.”

    Just incredible isn’t it? Just the same old crap on every thread. I had to chuckle at the first comment and to JB 24’s reply:

    Wrath of the Gods:
    Where’s Ghost tho? -_-

    Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money.

    ‘Wrath of the Gods’ post as I saw it was not meant to be taken seriously and a spoof of one of JB 24’s comments from a previous thread and he didn’t realize that 🙂

    – and as for ‘HBO won’t pony up the money’ perhaps he could donate a few bucks to HBO to bolster up the ‘$millions’ they spend each season to produce GoT! There’s nothing disappointing at what I’ve seen so far. The best cinematography along with SFX and CGI I’ve seen on any TV fantasy drama show.

  29. stefan666:
    A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

    They are totally inconsistent. The VFX people claim Drogon is Balerion’s size this year, yet the skull in 7.02 was way larger next to Cersei than Drogon’s skull is.

    And as you say, it looked like it was bigger last year, though that could just be an angle thing.

    Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

  30. Catspaw Assassin:
    Current mental exercise: calibrating how many beers I can retrieve and open while keeping my eyes glued to the tv screen for fifty-nine minutes. Who says I’m not an intellectual?

    Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits? (hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

  31. I was actually chill about this episode (because I figure we need a “breather” after last one) but OMFG that little HBO teaser…..
    DROGON!! JON!!!!!!
    #pleasedontfryhim

  32. Jack Bauer 24,

    Alas gingers don’t fair well on this show, do they? But if anyone can beat back, or at least stall the advance of, the undead it’s our big man Tormund.

    Oh please, please, don’t kill off Tormund! I’m still getting over my epic fail of shipping Qyburn and Craster! Those two were meant for each other. 😉

  33. So close now! 3 hours and change. Obviously curious to see if either Bronn or Jaimie drowned in Blackwater Rush. Also curious whether Littlefinger lives through another episode. He’s due for tumble down the stairs followed by a “I did tell you not to trust me.”

  34. Markus Stark: They are totally inconsistent. The VFX people claim Drogon is Balerion’s size this year, yet the skull in 7.02 was way larger next to Cersei than Drogon’s skull is.

    And as you say, it was bigger last year.

    Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

    They oversold his size all off season.

  35. TheLannistersWin:
    I think regardless, we can all agree that the dragons have had a weird growth cycle that was convenient as shit for the show, and not 100% consistent with the random lore of past dragons. But those past dragons are just stories, can we really believe a bunch of medieval ppl telling stories about things they didn’t personally see anyway? And I’m no dragon expert either sooo….

    It’s Folkstale mostly. They say Robb Starks can turn into a wolf himself if wants to. They say he can’t be killed.
    They also say we live in a blue eye giant named Macumber

  36. weirwoodtreehugger:
    Wow.Now people have resorted to whining about how terrible the episode was before it even aired.Maybe there should be a special quarantine forum for boring nitpicky whiners too 🙂

    Anyway, I haven’t been reading much this week.Is there no episode description?I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

    Presumably we’re going to see lots of White Walker terror

    from the book must be happening?I can’t wait.But I’m really worried for Tormund.

    No episode description. Dead things in the water referred to Hardhome, so I think that’s done with.

  37. King Podrick: It’s Folkstale mostly. They say Robb Starks can turn into a wolf himself if wants to. They say he can’t be killed.
    They also say we live in a blue eye giant named Macumber

    Maybe we do.

  38. Among the many things that I’m looking forward to tonight, I’m extremely hyped for return of Tormund Giantsbane, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Sandor Clegane. Last we heard from all of them was in the season premiere, and they were all heading towards the titular Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. I think it’s safe to assume that their paths will be intersecting there. In particular, seeing Tormund and the Hound interact will be a treat. One can only hope that the subject of Brienne of Tarth will come up somehow. 🙂

    I’m also excited to see what Matt Shakman has cooked up for his second (and sadly, most likely last) turn in the director’s chair. He impressed the hell out of me with his work on “The Spoils of War”, and while it seems inevitable that “Eastwatch” will be a quieter episode than that game-changing hour, it should still be full of great character moments. T-minus 3 hours … let’s do this!

  39. Knight of the Walkers:
    weirwoodtreehugger,

    That’s basically what the episode chat has come to before the episode airs. It’s always the same faces as well.

    I’m really looking forward to it myself, and even if it is a bit more talky/expositionythat isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

    Re the dragon head: people moan about the size of the dragons every year, and some of the same people who are moaning that they’re smaller this year moaned last year during the season that they were larger in Season 5.

    I swear some people take all the fun out of watching this fantastic show.

    I’m not sure how people criticizing the show ruins your enjoyment.

    Are you really that sensitive ? It’s just fiction, people are gonna have different opinions.
    And if the dragon sizes have been a little inconsistent, it’s perfectly legitimate to point it out and discuss it.

    If you’re not interested in that discussion, don’t partake in it. There’s no reason for it to ruin your fun.

    It’s such a minor thing anyway, nobody is acting like the show is bad because of a couple potentially inconsistent VFX shots.

    I loved the Battle for the Wall in Season 4, yet at the time a lot of mainstream critics criticized it for being a supposedly pale and less interesting version of Blackwater. Casual fans felt the same way, because they weren’t anywhere near as attached to the Night’s Watch story as they were to the King’s Landing story.

    Didn’t stop me from loving it and thinking it was better than Blackwater.

    Just enjoy what you enjoy, and let others enjoy or dislike whatever they enjoy or dislike.

  40. To everyone bitching about the size of the dragons:
    So the people who are bringing mythical creatures to your television screen using technology and skill that you can hardly fathom have disappointed you because of the 2 seconds they were in a 30 second trailer…
    Apparently there is some show called Claws on TNT at the same time as GOT. Maybe it would be more to your speed.

  41. NORTHERNFAITHFUL: Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits?(hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

    For the millionth time, the HBO run times include opening and closing credits, which are about a minute and a half each. They do not include the “Previously On” segment, which by the way has never been 10 minutes.

    So you’re getting about 56 minutes of actual show. Keep in mind though that they do round these numbers up, so if the episode is say 58 minutes and 20 seconds, that counts as a 59 minute episode.

  42. dothrakian raven,

    Very unlikely in my opinion: as much as Dany wants to see Jon bend the knee, I don’t think she really cares about “the dead are coming” story… She is so obsessed with this I-want-to-sit-on-the-iron-throne dream of her.

    So I guess Jon will probably use a helicopter to reach eastwatch in less than 59mn!

  43. Everett:
    To everyone bitching about the size of the dragons:
    So the people who are bringing mythical creatures to your television screen using technology and skill that you can hardly fathom have disappointed you because of the 2 seconds they were in a 30 second trailer…
    Apparently there is some show called Claws on TNT at the same time as GOT. Maybe it would be more to your speed.

    It’s both sad and hilarious that it’s become impossible to make any negative comment about the show or to discuss anything in a critical way without people coming out and calling it “bitching”.

    Here’s an idea, maybe instead of complaining about other people’s complaints, you should ignore them, or respond to them if you actually have something to contribute.

    People who whine about whiners are infinitely more aggravating than the original whiners.

    And no one fucking said that it was a big deal. Even if the dragon sizes are a little off, it’s a tiny, minor issue. Nobody is actually going to start saying the show sucks because of a tiny potential VFX discrepancy.

    So chill out.

  44. I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth? But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father? Were there any Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion? When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

    Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this? The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

  45. Dragon head size debate? Never thought I’d long for the days of bitching about Sansa’s wigs…

  46. Biscotti Knight,

    I’m the last person to nitpick, I was okay with the Sand Snakes ffs. This here is literally the first thing I ”complained” about on this site. So try someone else.

  47. Mary:
    I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth?But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father?Were thereany Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion?When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

    Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this?The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

    There has been a fan theory floating around for years about the Mad King being his real father.

  48. Markus Stark,

    You have every right to criticize the show. Just like we have the right to call your criticisms ridiculous. And they have been especially ridiculous this year. Let’s look at the main complaints:

    Unspecified travel times, called “jet packing” by nit pickers, which has been present the entire duration of the series

    Sam’s financial situation in Old Town

    And now, dragon size “inconsistencies” that have already been refuted

  49. Young Dragon,

    Don’t forget the depth of the water. The depth of the f’ing water. That almost broke my brain.

    If you’re gonna nitpick be prepared to back it up with something concrete. Otherwise don’t bitch when you get called out.

  50. Sunfyre:
    Markus Stark,

    Wow.Did you bother to read this thread?

    You nitpickers must be such fun at parties.

    I actually am quite good fun at parties, had an awesome one just last night, thanks for inquiring !

    I’m afraid, my friend, that I did read the thread. I fear that it is you who has been slacking on the reading.

    My comment clearly said that Drogon’s head looked to me like it was bigger last year, but as I said, it could just have to do with the angle.

    What I was talking about was Balerion’s skull next to Cersei supposedly being the same size as Drogon’s this year. The VFX teams claimed that, and I’m dubious.

    Also, the 747 thing. Drogon did not look anywhere near that size in last week’s episode.

    But no, contrary to what many assume, I’m not saying I know for a fact that the sizes are wrong, I’m saying they seem totally inconsistent to me.

    I did not go looking for the accurate measurements and dimensions, but if you want to, feel free and report back to me with your evidence.

  51. Markus Stark,

    Never said that it ruins my enjoyment. If people want to be miserable and spend lots of their own time whining that’s fine by me. I try to spend my free time doing things I enjoy, and I don’t enjoy whining. That isn’t to say I always focus on the positive, because I’ve mentioned things I’ve disliked about each episode in episode posts for the first three episodes this season (I didn’t for episode 4 because I loved it so much, although there are a few small quibbles I have with it).

  52. Oh wow! That snippet with Dreamking Jon and Drogon and Queen of Bunches of Titles shook me! What next, will he get a ride? This show is so amazing and has my heart racing more than ever before.

  53. Stranger’s Pooper Scooper:
    Dragon head size debate? Never thought I’d long for the days of bitching about Sansa’s wigs…

    Strange, seems to me that the size of the massively important mythical creatures’ heads would be a lot more interesting than Sansa’s bloody hair.

  54. Sunfyre:
    Young Dragon,

    Don’t forget the depth of the water. The depth of the f’ing water. That almost broke my brain. If you’re gonna nitpick be prepared to back it up with something concrete. Otherwise don’t bitch when you get called out.

    For me the head canon on that is that the channel is regularly dredged and has simply flooded a bit in the last days of summer.

  55. Young Dragon:
    Does anyone know who wrote this episode?

    No official word, but it’s a very safe bet that Dave Hill did. He always gets an episode, and D&D will definitely have wanted to write the last two.

  56. I don’t think anyone was actually seriously criticizing the show for the inconsistent dragon sizes… I think it was just being pointed out…… -_-

  57. Markus Stark,

    I have no measurements. The burden of proof isn’t on me. It’s on the one making the claim.

    Anyway, I’m done. Your response was measured and I appreciate that. I just find some of the attitudes here frustrating. I mean, this is it for GoT. There is a very real chance that this story will not be adapted again in our lifetimes. Let’s all try to enjoy it while we can.

  58. stefan666:
    Biscotti Knight,

    I’m the last person to nitpick, I was okay with the Sand Snakes ffs. This here is literally the first thing I ”complained” about on this site. So try someone else.

    If you intend to stay on this site, you’re going to have to get used to it I’m afraid.

    People here are pretty aggressive with anyone who doesn’t praise the show endlessly. The second you say anything other than “OMG it was sooooo perfect, what a great show, they did it again”, you’re going to be attacked by people calling you a “moaner”, a “whiner”, a “book purist”, and a “bitcher”, even if it’s completely uncalled for and inaccurate.

    Unfortunately that’s the price we pay to participate in this community. Civility is reserved for those we agree with, apparently.

  59. Unless ya’ll want to grab a measure tape and go on a trip to Dragonstone with me I suggest you lay off with your group vulture attacks on me. From what I see with my own eyes, the dragon sizes are inconsistent. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t like the show or that I like to nitpick. I’m fine with Dorne, with no Ghost, with time travel, with sudden deep water. I still like the show more than enything else. Nothing will ruin my experience of it. My statement of dragon sizes is not factual and confirmed, but so is not yours. So once again, lay off.

  60. A dead man is very disappointed…….
    ……..in the negativity found here on the open episode chat today!!!

    Was in such a good hyped up mood the entire day, because it’s finally Sunday again. Was looking forward to spending a couple of hours with some cool people with brains enough to actually bring some interesting views – or at least crack a few jokes 🙂 before “Eastwatch”…And what do I get? The usual loudmouth whiners totally hoging the chat:

    “They’re is wrong…”
    “You’re wrong…”
    “Spend more money…”
    “They don’t know how to direct…”
    “That’s too shallow…”
    “They don’t know how to write…”
    “That’s too small…”
    “I know better…”

    Why you still watch the show and especially why you come to this fine site to bitch much about every f-ing thing, is beyond my comprehension! Luckily I will probably never understand, as I’m truly not interested in the explanation for such thorough negativity. I wonder if you’re even aware of how annoying and utterly boring this can be to other FANS – you know that word Oxford’s define as: “A person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular person or thing”.

    However…A man can decide not follow the chat tonight (really a pity, but I’ll live) and enjoy a couple of the last weeks great episodes, before D&D and Shakman serves up another wonderfully flawed, stunning and captivating episode of our favorite show… Wish everyone (including the whiners 🙂 ) another great Sunday night with GAME OF THRONES!

    A dead man is disappointed…but at least not about the best show in town!

  61. Markus Stark: For the millionth time, the HBO run times include opening and closing credits, which are about a minute and a half each. They do not include the “Previously On” segment, which by the way has never been 10 minutes.

    So you’re getting about 56 minutes of actual show. Keep in mind though that they do round these numbers up, so if the episode is say 58 minutes and 20 seconds, that counts as a 59 minute episode.

    WOW! thanks for explaining like I’m a complete moron…I will try to be more “accurate” with time lines for my next post; hope the rest of your evening is less of an inconvenience

  62. Markus Stark,

    I have a solution for folks worrying about the head thing… Drogon’s head puffs up when he gets enraged like some animals that make themselves look larger. Seriously, he really looks alot like a T Rex head to me. Any way you want to look at it, Drogon is frickin HUGE, and I am really looking forward to seeing Jon react to having Drogon so close up. I may go nuts if Rhaegal lands and bends the knee to Jon so he can climb on. What would Danny say about bending the knee then?

  63. Oh my goodness, that is EXACTLY how we fell here, too. The show is truly heart racing this year, and I am filling these slow slow slow hours reading and rereading every article and comment. I do think Jon will ride a dragon!

  64. Looking forward to seeing Tormund again. I wonder if we’ll see the BWOB? Can’t wait to see the Hound kick some WW ass! Wonder if Bran will sense the urgency of the situation and tell Jon: not to worry about the dragons, you’re R + L = J! Getting real excited and finding it hard to process that there will only be two more after tonight. Glad that I’m taping them! Enjoy everyone!

  65. It’s not the size of Drogon’s head that matters. It’s how he uses it. 🐲🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🛡🗡

  66. weirwoodtreehugger:
    Is there no episode description? I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

    Oh, yes. Here it is:

    Daenerys demands loyalty; Jon heeds a warning; Cersei vows to vanquish; Jack Bauer 24 gets disappointed.

  67. Mary:
    I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth?But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father?Were thereany Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion?When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

    Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this?The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

    But there was another time when Tywin was talking to Tyrion and said “because you’re a Lannister” (Tywin was essentially voicing his disdain for Tyrion but the fact Tyrion was a Lannister was more important than his hatred of him). I guess Tywin could have still considered him a Lannister even if he knew he wasn’t his father, but I doubt it.

    On the other hand, while I’m not a book reader, I do believe that Tywin was hand of the king to the Mad King. So, it’s possible his wife could have been in KL around other Targs including the Mad King.

    Finally, yes, Bran warging into one or all of the dragons at the same time is a distinct possibility and that could have been what the old 3ER was referring to. I think for that to happen, Dany would likely have to have died or been captured. Then again, the 3ER could have meant that Bran will become the next 3ER (because ravens fly).

  68. Markus Stark: Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

    Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

    The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

  69. Young Dragon:
    Markus Stark,

    You have every right to criticize the show. Just like we have the right to call your criticisms ridiculous. And they have been especially ridiculous this year. Let’s look at the main complaints:

    Unspecified travel times, called “jet packing” by nit pickers, which has been present the entire duration of the series

    Sam’s financial situation in Old Town

    And now, dragon size “inconsistencies” that have already been refuted

    I really wonder if people like you are trolls or not. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not.

    First of all, the three things you mentioned are not among my main complains. At all. I think I mentioned Sam’s situation in Oldtown once. And this is the first I’ve discussed dragon sizes.

    So let’s get into it. Sam said in Season 6 that Gilly had to be with his family. Why ? Because no women in the Citadel. Gilly asked if she could stay in the city. Sam said no, because we don’t have any money for that.

    Therefore, I would like to know how they got money they supposedly didn’t have.

    Obviously it’s minor. The point is that it highlights weak writing. They contrived their journey to Horn Hill so that we could meet the Tarlys and steal the sword, and then as soon as they left the Tarlys, all the arguments for going there in the first place vanished, as did all the obstacles for taking Gilly to Oldtown (aka, money).

    That’s weak writing. Nothing ridiculous about pointing it out.

    As for the dragons, I made it very clearly that they LOOKED to me, like they were pretty inconsistent.

    There is nothing fucking wrong with making that statement. I didn’t attack anyone, or argue with anyone, I was joining a conversation that two other users were having.

    And I never pretend that it was a big issue. Just a conversation about dragon sizes. If that’s ridiculous to you, you’re in the wrong place. We’ve had years of direwolf size discussion, why can’t we talk about the dragons ?

    Regarding travel time, “jet-packing”, etc…., if you still don’t get it, you never will.

    It’s a hopeless case. But I’ll give it one last effort.

    When two or more stories intersect, it stands to reason that the same amount of time has passed for both stories, by the time they converge.

    Yara and the Unsullied left Dragonstone around the same time. Euron attacks Yara, returns to KL, and later sails to Casterly Rock (we see that the Silence is there). He makes it there shortly after the Unsullied.

    This would realistically, in the books, take months. In the show, probably 2 or 3 weeks.

    So, how come Theon makes it back to Dragonstone AFTER Dany has already heard about the events at Casterly Rock ? Theon should have made it back to DS around the same time that Euron returned to KL.

    They were in the same battle, and their two destinations are right next to each other.
    Yet the events of Casterly Rock are clearly taking place a couple weeks later.

    Therefore, Theon’s arrival on DS in Episode 4, after the events of Casterly Rock and Highgarden are already over, is nonsensical.

    Because it means it took him weeks to return, for some mysterious reason, while Euron apparently returned quickly enough to then turn around and head for the Rock.

    And there are a million equally good and better examples of how time and space have lost all meaning in the past few seasons.

    Of course time can pass off-screen. Everyone knows that, it’s logical, it happens in all fiction, and yes, we all read GRRM’s note on chronology. That isn’t the issue. Time passing between scenes isn’t a free pass to lose all sense of cohesion.

    On the contrary, it’s a responsibility. The time that passes needs to be taken into account. And that it what the writers fail to do.

    They’ll have events that would take weeks or months to occur, and yet when you look at what’s happening with the intersecting characters whose stories haven’t progressed at all, you realize that only a few days passes for some, while weeks pass for others.

    Well, that doesn’t work, when the stories in question are intersecting.

    You can’t have weeks pass for Jaime, Euron, Cersei, and the Unsullied, if only days are passing for Jon, Theon, and Dany.

    And yes, that’s what they did. Because Theon’s return to DS would only take a day or two.

    And Jon hasn’t been there for weeks. In episode 3 she allows him to mine the dragonglass.
    In episode 4, he has not yet begun mining, as we know, from the dialogue.

    Therefore, mere days have passed, at most. Despite this, Jon is present for the news about the Greyjoy battle, and for the news about Catserly Rock and Highgarden. Reports that would arrive weeks apart, because those battles took place weeks apart.

    So going by the armies’ movements, Jon has been on Dragonstone for 3 weeks. Going by the events ON Dragonstone, he’s been there a few days.

    Based on the armies’ movements, Theon has been gone for weeks. Based on logic, and Theon’s scenes, and Dragonstone scenes, Theon has been gone for days.

    This is the issue. This is why people complain about the timeline. Because the showrunners fast forward one story while completely forgetting to make sure that the separate timelines actually line up properly when those stories intersect and converge.

    Passage of time off-screen, which everyone fucking knows about since the first book that was ever written, is not the answer to this problem.

  70. Jack Bauer 24: Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money.

    Well HBO should be responsible and not get so many pets if it can’t afford to care for them properly ….

  71. Markus Stark,

    No. Just no. Of the million things worthy of discussing or commenting on about this episode you (and others) chose to focus only on inconsistent dragon head size. There is a HUGE gap between “endlessly praising the show” and whatever it is you are doing. Which annoys people, reasonably.

    Jared,

    Me too! They were so great in their scene is 701, really looking forward to seeing more of them.

  72. Ginevra: Daenerys demands loyalty; Jon heeds a warning; Cersei vows to vanquish; Jack Bauer 24 gets disappointed.

    Lol. I heard this episode was originally titled “Bend the Knee.” 🙂

  73. I hope Tormund Giantsbane lives up to his name and takes care some of those zombie giants.

    If there is an undead bear I don’t want him to live up to that story.

  74. Mr Fixit: Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

    The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

    These are the guys creating the dragons. If they say “This year, Drogon is the size of a 747, or almost as large as Balerion, they’re not speaking metaphorically. They’re assumed to be actually telling us what the size will be.

    It’s perfectly legitimate to wonder if they weren’t exaggerating a bit.

  75. HelloThere:
    I don’t think anyone was actually seriously criticizing the show for the inconsistent dragon sizes… I think it was just being pointed out…… -_-

    This brave fellow gets it.

  76. Markus Stark,

    “People who whine about whiners are infinitely more aggravating than the original whiners.”

    Nope. Not to me. But YMMV. I like to come here because it’s generally more chill and positive than most discussion places on the internet, especially with there being a show focus instead of nitpicking over book to show changes on other sites. There are a ton of places you can go to be negative about the show and you can moan to your heart’s content about how D&D got this or that wrong and are hacks etc etc. You’ll be celebrated and patted on the back there.

    WoW is *one of the few* places online that is very show friendly while still allowing speculation and debate over story arcs & characters. I also appreciate how it tries to keep spoilers to a minimum. I prefer to read posts which are generally positive and constructive. I don’t care for criticisms which seem whiny, petty, or largely unsubstantiated. It does detract from my enjoyment and anticipation of the upcoming episode when I have to sift through all the negativity.

    Perhaps keep that in mind, occasionally?

  77. Markus Stark,

    Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

    It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

  78. Sunfyre:
    Markus Stark,

    I have no measurements. The burden of proof isn’t on me. It’s on the one making the claim.

    Anyway, I’m done. Your response was measured and I appreciate that. I just find some of the attitudes here frustrating. I mean, this is it for GoT. There is a very real chance that this story will not be adapted again in our lifetimes. Let’s all try to enjoy it while we can.

    I agree with you about burden of proof.

    I just think people like you are perhaps a little too sensitive to what you perceive to be nit-picking.

    I love this story, that’s why I scour every detail of it. I’d be down for talking about costumes, food, set design, whatever. I really appreciated how detail oriented it used to be, and so I’m a little disappointed that those standards have waned in my view.

    But don’t let that make you think I dislike the show.

    I LOVE the show. Do I love the books more ? Yes. Do I love the earlier seasons more ? Yes.

    But I still love it now, and as far as I’m concerned, these first 4 episodes of Season 7 have all been much better than anything I’ve seen since “Hardhome” and “The Door”.

    If there’s a season of GoT I don’t like, it’s season 6. Every other one is among my absolute favorite seasons of TV ever. So don’t get too down by the nit-picking.

    It doesn’t mean people are hating the show.

    Anyway, thanks to you too for the measured and kind response.

  79. Succubint,

    Yes, and I pointed out the size of the dragon’s head in one SINGLE comment, not hating, just pointing out. That was apparently enough for 20 of people here to jump on a hate bandwagon and attack me for it. Yet, of course, me and one other guy are the ones who are spreading hate.

  80. This open chat has turned into a complete dumpster fire today.

    On another note, greetings to everyone who’s excited about the episode tonight. Hope the day is treating you all well so far 🙂

  81. So I have a question about Jon’s knowledge of Bran. Do you think Jon already knows Bran is at WF? And that he’s aware of him being the 3ER?

  82. Why is everyone so cranky lately? It’s a show night! Relax, have fun and stop sniping at each other.

  83. Jack Bauer 24: Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money

    At this point in time that cannot be true, GoT is too buzz-famous (hell even more that that!). D&D could ask for the sky and Time-Warner would make sure they got it. The dire-wolves are a mystery , we see more of Rhaegal and Viserion than Ghost. Used to be a money problem not now days.
    Someone need to ask Bryan .

  84. NORTHERNFAITHFUL: Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits?(hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

    Fingers crossed that it’s a typo for 159 minutes! Dream big! (•̀o•́)ง

  85. Mr Fixit:
    Markus Stark,

    Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

    It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

    It could have been a figure of speech, but it certainly didn’t seem that way in the clips I saw.

    Did you watch the bonus material for Episode 4 ? It was the technical department that said that. The technical department. When they say it’s the size of a plane, I tend to assume they aren’t using literary figures, but are actually aiming to give us a precise idea.

    Besides, many similar interviews have clearly used that expression as plainly as possible, there were no figures of speech.

    So yeah, you probably should feel silly for thinking that.

    Here, since you don’t believe me, take it from Matt Shakman, precise measurements and all : http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/game-of-thrones-season-7-dragons/

    ““The dragons this year are the size of 747s,” director Matt Shakman tells EW. “Drogon is the biggest of the bunch — his flame is 30-feet in diameter!”

    Shakman is one of four directors helming next season (the others are GoT vets Alan Taylor, Jeremy Podeswa, and Mark Mylod). He was probably being at least somewhat approximate when comparing the dragons to the venerable Boeing airliner. But for reference, a 747 is about 230 feet long with a 210 feet wingspan. So, really big.”

  86. Okay moving on, since I should put my money where my mouth is and not add to the negativity…

    That new teaser with Drogon and Jon has me shook. I am so excited about a face to face meeting. He looks terrified there, but I am glad he appears to be standing his ground.

    I don’t think this episode will have any large battle set pieces. We need a breather after Field of Fire 2.0. But if we’re visiting Eastwatch By The Sea, it does make me nervous about where the WWs currently are and Tormund being stationed there. Since the BoB seemed headed that way, I really hope we get some scenes with the Hound. I’ve been missing his character.

    Who else haven’t we seen lately? Sam? Jorah?

  87. HelloThere,

    Wow! I read your book spoiler about Tarly, and I am speechless! That man is just total scum. In the last episode, he was even suggesting that the straggler Lannister soldiers be flogged. What a father poor Sam has. The saddest thing is Dickon is probably a good person, intrinsically, but has to live up to his horrendous father.

  88. Mr Fixit: Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

    It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

    Drogon as big as a 747 this year, bigger than a A380 next year?

  89. Dutch Maester:
    Markus Stark,

    No. Just no. Of the million things worthy of discussing or commenting on about this episode you (and others) chose to focus only on inconsistent dragon head size.There is a HUGE gap between “endlessly praising the show” and whatever it is you are doing. Which annoys people, reasonably.

    Yeah, it’s hilarious how people pretend like there’s no difference between critical analysis or having a few adaptation choices that make you mad and spending hours and hours every week nitpicking every little thing. That “people think you’re a troll if you don’t endlessly praise the show!” defense is such a fail.

    This fandom has always had its share of nitpicky whiners. Before season one, people saw the trailers and complained about the furniture. They saw the casting news and complained about NCW’s nose. But I swear it’s gotten worse every year. I used to post a lot here. Now I rarely do because between the people who don’t cover their leak spoilers and the people who spend their whole lives here complaining, it’s not much fun anymore.

  90. stefan666,

    Sorry Stefan666, it wasn’t really directed at you specifically, just something that’s been building up over the past couple of weeks. I apologize for making you feel singled out for your one comment.

  91. Sue the Fury:
    Why is everyone so cranky lately? It’s a show night! Relax, have fun and stop sniping at each other.

    Maybe everyone is just feeling the “pain” of a shortened season and realizing this is episode 5 of 7…. it just can’t be so!

  92. Markus Stark: Here, since you don’t believe me, take it from Matt Shakman, precise measurements and all : http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/game-of-thrones-season-7-dragons/

    ““The dragons this year are the size of 747s,” director Matt Shakman tells EW. “Drogon is the biggest of the bunch — his flame is 30-feet in diameter!”

    Shakman is one of four directors helming next season (the others are GoT vets Alan Taylor, Jeremy Podeswa, and Mark Mylod). He was probably being at least somewhat approximate when comparing the dragons to the venerable Boeing airliner. But for reference, a 747 is about 230 feet long with a 210 feet wingspan. So, really big.”

    Uhm…..

    You do realize it’s not Shakman who gave the 747 dimensions? Its’s the writers of the article after saying that Shakman was “probably at least somewhat approximate”.

  93. Succubint,

    No need to apologize, it’s okay. It’s just that a lot of people here put a lot of others in the same basket for entirely different things. Me saying that the dragon’s head is smaller than before is different than people complaining about Dorne storyline, Arya’s 6×7,8 episodes , time travel or shallow to deep water in an instant. It fells bad being negatively received for anything remotely not positive about the show. And I consider myself one of the biggest fans of both the show and the books.

  94. GW,

    LOL I can totally see that happening. Lady Tarly seemed a kind and generous woman. She and her daughter would probably be the sort to send money without telling Lord Tarly.

  95. Pigeon:
    Guys. It’s only tits and dragons.

    But do dragons have tits? I mean, if their mother has them, it’s kinda strange the kids don’t. Maybe they are rudimentary tits, much like python legs?

  96. Kay,

    Have you ever watched Black Sails? Tom Hopper is one of my favorite actors on that show. I hope he doesn’t end up as a Hopper-meal for Drogon, but I think he’s doomed.

  97. Dee Stark:
    Markus Stark,

    And you do it too

    We’re all the same lol

    No, I don’t, and no, we’re not.

    I’ve never told someone who enjoyed a scene or an episode that they were wrong to enjoy it. I never whined about someone else having complaints about the show.
    If someone has complaints I’ll either agree politely, disagree politely, or ignore.
    I’ve never decided to harass someone over diverging opinion.

    I’ve also never seen you attacking people who criticized the show.

    So we’re not all the same. Some people like you enjoy things without imposing your view on others, some people like me both enjoy and criticize things without imposing on others (discussing isn’t imposing), and others try to impose that critics of the show shut up.

    That’s the issue.

  98. Markus Stark,

    I have absolutely no problem with intelligent criticism and enjoy engaging in respective discussion regarding the show. Unfortunately, that’s mostly impossible here, because the majority of criticisms aren’t intelligent, they’re nit picks. Ironically, I can find more intelligent conversation at westeros.org than I can from some of the posters here. Now, regarding these criticisms:

    1. Sam’s detour to Horn Hill is such a minor plot point it isn’t even worth discussing. The story line was only meant to serve as an introduction to Randyll. How Sam acquired the money to rent an apartment for Gilly in Old Town isn’t important to the story and isn’t even mentioning. Any intelligent viewer can gather that Sam stole the money from his father, along with Heartsbane.

    2. You’re making a lot of assumptions with your “jet packing” criticisms. First of all, the Unsullied clearly left well before Yara and Ellaria in order to better coordinate their battle plan. Otherwise, they would have been caught in the ambush as well. Second, there’s no telling how far Yara and Ellaria travelled before Euron’s ambush. Therefore, there’s no telling how long it would have taken Theon to make it back. Third, it’s never said how close Dragonstone is to King’s Landing. They may be close in the books, but that may not be true for the show. Lastly, it’s never mentioned how long it takes to get from King’s Landing to Casterly Rock. Once again, you’re merely making assumptions.

  99. I’m concerned about the leaderless Dornish army. Think of the unsupervised children in the water gardens!

  100. Mr Fixit: But do dragons have tits? I mean, if their mother has them, it’s kinda strange the kids don’t. Maybe they are rudimentary tits, much like python legs?

    Tits AND dragons, not ON dragons! They hatch their young and don’t nurse them. What would be the point in….*looks at male mammals*

    Awesome, I just literally googled “Do reptiles ever have nipples?” 😑

  101. Succubint,

    I was just wondering because the previews show Jon saying that Bran has seen the army marching towards Eastwatch. There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.

  102. Direcat,

    That depends on whether he’s allowed to communicate via raven on DS. And I think he is.
    preview spoiler

    Jon states “bran saw the nk….” . That could mean he has received a letter directly from WF or has been informed of the contents of a letter sent to Daeny at DS. Either way he know Bran is at WF. 3ER is a conversation that’ll best occur in person imo.
  103. Samson:
    I hope Tormund Giantsbane lives up to his name and takes care some of those zombie giants.

    If there is an undead bear I don’t want him to live up to that story.

    I’m not a book reader, but I read somewhere on the Game of Thrones wiki that he got his name because he sliced open the belly of a female giant and then slept inside it to not freeze to death during an intense storm. Then the giant mistook him for her baby and suckled him for 3 months before he could escape. The Tormund was able to successfully get people to call him Giantsbane instead of Giantsbabe.

  104. Direcat,

    “There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.”

    You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
    Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

  105. Direcat,

    That would be an interesting raven message. “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

  106. Direcat:
    So I have a question about Jon’s knowledge of Bran.Do you think Jon already knows Bran is at WF?And that he’s aware of him being the 3ER?

    No, I can’t see how Jon knows either at this point. Sounds like, based on the preview, that Jon may get a raven at Dragonstone from Bran about the NK and the wights approaching Eastwatch. So, Jon could find out Bran has returned (which would be kind of disappointing as a viewer for him to find out like that). But if that happens my guess Jon would assume Bran knows about the NK because he physically saw the undead army and not because he is the 3ER. Jon can’t possibly understand what Bran has become via a short scroll from a raven.

  107. Off topic (what was it again?), but Bill Maher, or someone on his writing staff, made a good crack on his show Friday when he dubbed Sarah Palin “The Daenerys Stillborn of the House of Pancakes.”

    (Though he pronounced it “Daenarious.” For a pothead he can be such a square.)

  108. ramses:
    Direcat,

    “There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.”

    You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
    Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

    Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

  109. Pigeon: Tits AND dragons, not ON dragons! They hatch their young and don’t nurse them. What would be the point in….*looks at male mammals*

    Awesome, I just literally googled “Do reptiles ever have nipples?”

    Okay. Since we are debating the literal meaning of words, did you really look at a male mammal prior to typing your comment? Moreover, did you instruct one closest to you, if the specimen in question belongs to the species of homo sapiens, to remove any intervening garments so you could get a closer look at his sadly malfunctioning mammary glands?

    It’s kinda creepy if you did that, but I totally understand.

  110. Boojam,

    the simple explanation is (as they have stated lots of times) it is a lot of hard work for everyone involved (actors, cgi dept, the wolves themselves..)
    Longer explanation
    In the books yes Jon,Bran and Arya are (or could be) Wargs. In the show 3 characters with the same trait would actually get a bit redundant. Bran is the character whose warging ablity was a main part of his story so he obviously will be Show!warg. Show!Ayra story is focused more on her assassin/ninja skills and Show!Jon’s story is as hero, focused on his determination to save Westeros from the Nights King so while Ghost would be nice to see more he just really is not as important as Dany’s dragons show wise (and even Danys dragons are split into Team A-Drogon and Team B-R and V)

  111. I’m hype af for tonight’s episode!

    Also, the comments on this thread have been entertaining to read lol.

  112. What about Jaime? Is he alive? Dead? Prisoner of Dany? So much more to talk about that Dragon head size.

    I think the Raven will say Bran returned from North of the Wall and seen the Nights army by East Watch.

  113. Tamwell Sarly,

    Warging isn’t the same as having visions. It wouldn’t be super complex for Jon to understand a warg’s capability since he knew one.
    But your suggestion is possible too!

  114. Tamwell Sarly: But there was another time when Tywin was talking to Tyrion and said “because you’re a Lannister” (Tywin was essentially voicing his disdain for Tyrion but the fact Tyrion was a Lannister was more important than his hatred of him). I guess Tywin could have still considered him a Lannister even if he knew he wasn’t his father, but I doubt it.

    Tyrion’s mother was a Lannister too. She was Tywin’s cousin.

  115. I love this thread so much 😂😂😂

    I hope they do an inside the episode on the size of the dragons heads from season 1 through 7.

  116. The discussion about Bran makes me wonder again about his role going forward. Is his future arc about seeing clearly and connecting the dots? Specifically about the past wrt Jon’s parentage? Will he also serve as the ultimate form of reconnaissance in the battle with the White Walkers? How do D&D place obstacles in front of him considering how powerful he is now? He is so godlike it makes me fear for him because in theory he can see everything. In order for the story to have any tension his power would need to be diminished in some way… or removed completely.

    Just typing this out reinforces for me how difficult a superpowered Bran must be for GRRM (and D&D) to handle. And why he’s been used so sparingly.

  117. Direcat,

    I agree, but thought it was funny enough to merit a mention. Besides, I’m walking on catspaws over tonight’s episode. ~(=^‥^)=

  118. Sunfyre,

    To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

  119. 1 hour to go! Excited to see:
    – outcome of last episode’s cliffhanger (my bet is Jaime will survive; looked like he was wearing his plot armor 😊)
    – Jon/Drogon’s face off (been wondering if Drogon is pissed or excited in that clip)
    – Eastwatch and the marching army of the dead

    Enjoy the episode!

  120. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
    I love this thread so much

    I hope they do an inside the episode on the size of the dragons heads from season 1 through 7.

    And after that, an episode on just how deep the water was that Jamie fell into! I jest, I got caught up in that one myself :)!! We each have our “thing” but we all enjoy the show! And this Watcher’s site!

  121. Sunfyre:
    Direcat,

    That would be an interesting raven message. “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

    😂😂😂😂

  122. I have almost re-watched season 7. Just noticed Bran gives Arya a double look when he passes the Dagger to her. Check it out. It’s like he had a vision right there.

    40 mins away. Can’t wait. Super hyped!!!!

  123. ramses:
    Sunfyre,

    To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

    It sure does point in that direction. Reminds of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Which it seems there are a few things this season that are reminiscent of that series.

  124. ramses,

    Great point. And as the White Walkers take center stage the show will be forced to define them further. Hopefully revealing the Night King’s abilities and motivations. My gut tells me this will happen more in Season 8 but hoping they tease some of it in these last few episodes.

    Perhaps Bran’s struggle with the Night King will take place on the metaphysical level while Jon will confront him on the battlefield. Two prongs of attack.

  125. ramses:
    Tamwell Sarly,

    Warging isn’t the same as having visions. It wouldn’t be super complex for Jon to understand a warg’s capability since he knew one.
    But your suggestion is possible too!

    I know warging and the greensight aren’t the same. Not sure what I wrote that would make it seem like I was confused, but that’s ok. Yeah, I agree, Jon grasps the warging concept since he’s seen that first hand. However, it’s not Bran’s warging that would be the source of any message sent to Jon, it’d be the greensight…and that’s something much less common and would be something more difficult for Jon to grasp without seeing Bran demonstrate or explain it.

  126. Dead Dane Walking,

    Yes, took the words right out of my mouth. There are several regulars who have been scarce this week, wonder if they tire of the complaints as well. I don’t mind bring up things that are real problems, but really, the size of the dragons head? No one fricking noticed they were too shocked and awed by the dragon itself!!

    Anyway almost time, got go get comfy, turn off phones, make popcorn and drinks…..this should be fun!

  127. Sunfyre,

    I agree. I fully expect season 8 we’ll see; Bran get ahold of his new capability, further illumination of NK’s capability (particularly after crossing the wall) and maybe (fingers crossed) more explanation regarding the WWs in general. S7 Bran is, in a way, grappling with another form of paralysis.

    Hopefully, Arya will see some action too 😀

  128. Events I’d like to see transpire tonight:

    Jaime and Bronn wash up on the river bank and are about to be torn asunder by Dothhraki, but are saved by Tyrion. Hilarious comedic dialogue ensues.

    Cersei and Baelish are revealed to be BFFs.

    The return of the inept Winterfell guards, Fric and Frac.

    Little Sam is now the size of a 747.

  129. Tamwell Sarly: I know warging and the greensight aren’t the same. Not sure what I wrote that would make it seem like I was confused, but that’s ok. Yeah, I agree, Jon grasps the warging concept since he’s seen that first hand. However, it’s not Bran’s warging that would be the source of any message sent to Jon, it’d be the greensight…and that’s something much less common and would be something more difficult for Jon to grasp without seeing Bran demonstrate or explain it.

    But Bran knows the NK is at Eastwatch due to his warging into a raven, right? I think that was the point.

  130. Grandmaester Flash: Tyrion’s mother was a Lannister too.She was Tywin’s cousin.

    Oh, ok. I think I might’ve known that at one time. So, yeah, I suppose the Tyrion is part Targ theory is still a possibility. Although, I do recall reading somewhere that Tywin’s wife was nowhere near KL during the time frame in which she became pregnant with Tyrion. But, then again, I’m not a book reader so I don’t know if that’s true or not.

  131. Sunfyre:
    ramses,

    Great point. And as the White Walkers take center stage the show will be forced to define them further. Hopefully revealing the Night King’s abilities and motivations. My gut tells me this will happen more in Season 8 but hoping they tease some of it in these last few episodes.

    Perhaps Bran’s struggle with the Night King will take place on the metaphysical level while Jon will confront him on the battlefield.Two prongs of attack.

    That makes sense as a way of fighting the NK. Also, Bran can give Jon info on the locations of the WW. He might as well take advantage of their connection.

  132. I hope we get more little sam

    that kid is so adorable

    watching hannah murray struggle to carry him is funny 🙂

  133. ramses:
    Sunfyre,

    To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

    Yeah, seems the NK has the greensight and warging ability too (warging into the dead). So, as “god like” as Bran may be, the NK would be way more powerful (since he’s had those powers for thousands of years). In other words, as powerful as Bran is becoming, he’s still only one piece of the puzzle to defeat the NK.

  134. Tamwell Sarly,

    Me:
    You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
    Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

    You:
    Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

    Specifically this exchange. I wasn’t sure if you knew I was referring to warging in my comment that you responded to.
    No big deal though 🙂

  135. Ginevra: But Bran knows the NK is at Eastwatch due to his warging into a raven, right?I think that was the point.

    I was under the impression Bran knew about NK going to Eastwatch from a vision. The last time I was aware he warged into anything was Hodor. They’ve not shown him warging into a Raven or even mentioned it, so I assumed he’s been honing his new found greensight skills since that’s what the 3ER was teaching/dumping on him.

    But, yeah, ok…point proven with the preview.

  136. Ginevra,

    Yeah. At first from the preview I thought those were ravens leaving WF to inform other houses about the WW.
    Upon rewatch, it seems to be ravens leaving under Bran’s command to spy on the WW.

  137. I’ve found this particular chat session to be much more entertaining while listening to various versions of “The Rains Of Castamere”. 😀

  138. IronPrice112:
    I have almostre-watched season 7.Just noticed Bran gives Arya a double look when he passes the Dagger to her.Check it out.It’s like he had a vision right there.

    Just watched the last two episodes and the chat seems “safe” again, so I’ll stop by for the loooong 15 minutes still to go!

    I didn’t really see that special double look, but I did notice Arya suddenly wore Needle on the left side as a right-handed?! That’s a little odd… She’s always had it on the right side and she does again in the courtyard when sparring with Brienne. Wonder if that’s a production mistake or a little clue about something?

  139. ramses:
    Tamwell Sarly,

    Me:
    You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
    Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

    You:
    Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

    Specifically this exchange. I wasn’t sure if you knew I was referring to warging in my comment that you responded to.
    No big deal though

    Gotcha. I guess I didn’t pay enough attention to the preview and, as Ginerva pointed out to me above, it looks like Bran uses his warging after all to see the NK’s army and not visions. So, yeah, I guess my speculation was for not.

  140. Sam:
    Dee Stark,

    I’m scared too, especially if this is going to be like Hardhome. But can’t wait to see Jon and the gang in action.

    So we need to start a prayer circle for Tormund? #TormundWatch2K17

  141. Tamwell Sarly,

    Perhaps not. We still don’t know what the WF Starks deem fit to write to Jon. It just might be your explanation is a easier message for them to convey.
    12 minutes and counting. 👍

  142. Sam:
    Dee Stark,

    I’m scared too, especially if this is going to be like Hardhome. 😱 But can’t wait to see Jon and the gang in action. 😃

    Doubt we’re going to get a HH type battle tonight. Jon isn’t at Eastwatch yet and Dany still hasn’t agreed to help him.

  143. Silent Sister:
    I’ve found this particular chat session to be much more entertaining while listening to various versions of “The Rains Of Castamere”.

    The chat session escalated quickly.

  144. Sunfyre: “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

    Haha 🙂 …or: “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven. Wanna know when you’ll die…again? Oh and where in seven hells DID you learn that thing, you did with your tongue?”

  145. Angela: That makes sense as a way of fighting the NK. Also, Bran can give Jon info on the locations of the WW. He might as well take advantage of their connection.

    Yes. I do wonder about the logistics of it. Especially when it gets down to actual armies facing off with one another in close combat. Will Bran actually speak through ravens to relay things to Jon in real time?

    And then there’s the dragons of course. The battles I picture in my brain are epic and complex and intimate and brutal and supernatural and gritty all at the same time. With so many main characters interacting facing an endless tide of White Walkers. The wait for Season 8 is gonna be a major endurance test…

    Edited to add: 6 Minutes!!!

  146. Dear Jon, I’m glad you didn’t bend the knee in that one cave even though you bent the tongue in the other. That’s what I do: I sit and I know shit.

  147. Sam:
    Dee Stark,

    I’m scared too, especially if this is going to be like Hardhome. But can’t wait to see Jon and the gang in action.

    Episode 6 will be like Hardhome, most likely.

  148. Mr Fixit: Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

    The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

    The funny thing is that I recently (in a thread about getting gold from Highgarden to King’s Landing in a fortnight) estimated that show!Westeros is about 2/3 scale of book!Westeros based on Roose Bolton’s statements about the size of the North (when legitimizing Ramsay). If that’s the case, then the guards at Winterfell telling Arya that Jon Snow was “a thousand miles” away were almost exactly literally correct.

  149. Silent Sister,

    LOL

    I wanna glide down over the Stormlands
    I wanna write Dany’s name in the sky
    I’m wanna free fall out into nothin’
    Gonna need my mommy to pull this spear outta me

    And I’m free, free fallin’

  150. Oh no, not Rickon, I mean Dickon!

    Oh shit, wait until Sam hears about this. Just kidding, will he care? He’s freaking rich now.

  151. It’s a testament to how much thought goes into this show that a CGI “creature” has a personality that has grown over the years.

  152. Yeah… well Tyrion burned many more at blackwater. A fact even he seems to have forgotten. War is ugly.

    cuddlycrow:
    Sorry, what Dany did was just evil! Burning alive is horrible! I really do not like her now!

  153. That meeting with the maesters would have been a good time for Sam to invent flipping the bird.

  154. Apollo,

    Burning alive as execution and burning as a weapon during battle are quite different. Dany needs to tread carefully if she is to avoid resurrecting her father’s reputation (burning people alive out of battle).

    It’s good storytelling though as my feelings for her keep shifting. One minute I find her arrogant, the next empowered. One minute she’s cruel and ruthless and the next seemingly merciful and caring.

  155. Apollo:
    Yeah… well Tyrion burned many more at blackwater. A fact even he seems to have forgotten. War is ugly.

    Tyrion didn’t know really what to expect. At least, he was horrified by what wildfire did. Dany HAD a choice, but decide to be evil. pure and simple.

  156. Sunfyre: Yes. I do wonder about the logistics of it. Especially when it gets down to actual armies facing off with one another in close combat. Will Bran actually speak through ravens to relay things to Jon in real time?

    And then there’s the dragons of course. The battles I picture in my brain are epic and complex and intimate and brutal and supernatural and gritty all at the same time.With so many main characters interacting facing an endless tide of White Walkers.The wait for Season 8 is gonna be a major endurance test…

    Edited to add: 6 Minutes!!!

    Yes it will be.

  157. No offense to Joe Dempsie, but is Michael Fassbender playing Gendry now? The resemblance is remarkable.

  158. Catspaw Assassin:
    No offense to Joe Dempsie, but is Michael Fassbender playing Gendry now? The resemblance is remarkable.

    That couldn’t be less offensive – the hotness is real. Swing dat hammer!

  159. Tyrion is one of the most intelligent men in the 7Ks. He knew exactly what wildfire was capable of. Sure, he was shocked by the enormity of what he saw, but he was by no means ignorant to the power of wildfire.

    cuddlycrow: Tyrion didn’t know really what to expect. At least, he was horrified by what wildfire did. Dany HAD a choice, but decide to be evil. pure and simple.

  160. Just when you think Jaime is starting to see the light that Cersei is nuts, she hooks him back in. Jeez.

  161. Loved Arya calling Sansa out, games of faces indeed

    Reckon Sansa may have trouble giving up power…

    Just creamed my pants at epic Gilly spoiler !!!!!!!!!!

  162. That episode could have been a disaster on paper, but damned if they didn’t pull it off. Not an all-time great, but not bad either.

    Hyped as hell for next week!

  163. Apollo:
    Tyrion is one of the most intelligent men in the 7Ks. He knew exactly what wildfire was capable of. Sure, he was shocked by the enormity of what he saw, but he was by no meansignorant to the power of wildfire.

    Apollo, can’t and won’t disagree with that reasoning. However, Dany had a choice not to burn and make a quick death or listen to Tyrion.

  164. Ok I just want to say Dany and Jon seem really drawn to each other, I don’t mean sexually it’s like they know subconsciously they are family.

    It’s weird, but yeah they are really drawn to each other and I love it!

  165. Gendry!!!!!Jorah!!!!!The Hound!!!!!Drogon and Jon!!!!!Gilly’s discovery!!!!!Tyrion and Jamie!!!!!Holy Shit this shit is real!!!!

  166. Farcical_Aquatic_Ceremony:
    Jack Bauer 24,

    I don’t know, but it made me hate Arya even more than I already do.

    I didn’t hate Arya, or even dislike until this season. All of the sudden, she is like a marvel character and serial killer attitude. I use to want her to live and now, if she gets offed won’t mind it as much.

  167. Che:
    Just when you think Jaime is starting to see the light that Cersei is nuts, she hooks him back in. Jeez.

    Do you think Cercei is really pregnant????????

  168. I’m not one to complain about the jumping locations, but honestly that episode gave even me whiplash, especially with how Tyrion moved around. When he was on the beach w/ Jorah, I thought they were leaving Dragonstone, not arriving at KL. Some good moments, but they obviously needed to move a lot of pieces around to get to the last two episodes. Kinda wish they had done this in two episodes instead of cramming it into one. I’ll have to watch it again, but this might’ve been my least favorite ep of the season, so far.

  169. That book about “annulment” was the one Sam gave to lil Sam? SO the book is with the rest of their things in the carriage?

  170. We finally have a plot development more stupid than Arya surviving multiple abdominal wounds.

    Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

  171. Wow. This was a damn good episode. But next week’s looks amazing. Next week’s episode could be special.

  172. Both Dave and Bryan have written very good episodes this season.
    At least now we know who wrote E6 and E7.

  173. Grayven Reyne:
    We finally have a plot development more stupid than Arya surviving multiple abdominal wounds.

    Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

    They weren’t even out of breath… No One part 2

    Jamie did foreshadow in the Spoils of Wars that somethings could be harder to believe than Cercei ruling the Seven Kingdoms in peace… and floating Jamie fullfills that foreshadow.

  174. Hodors Bastard:
    I was shouting at Sam when he interrupted Gilly. “Goddammit Sam, listen to her, idiot!”

    dothrakian raven:
    That book about “annulment” was the one Sam gave to lil Sam? SO the book is with the rest of their things in the cart?

    Yes, I was shouting, too. And yes, I hope it’s in that cart.
    So Sam doesn’t know that his father and brother are dead? He has to find out when he arrives at WF or wherever he is headed.

    I think that I’m done with Jaime. If he hasn’t grown a pair by now, he never will.

    Welcome back, Joe Dempsie.

  175. Wow this was such a good set up episode. I didn’t see next weeks preview but I’m so friggin hyped!!!!!
    Jon and drogon and Dany is every thing
    JON WASNT A BASTARD
    Littlefinger setting up a fake scroll – dieeeeeeeeee Im so worried

  176. Stunned … and finally they addressed the fact that the all hate each other so much for their past deeds … can only imagine what Dany meeting Cersie will be like

  177. Oh God! This episode left me on the verge of a cardiac arrest!!
    What’s going to happen between Arya, Sansa and Littlefinger
    What’s going to happen with the band of crazy guys who went north
    Daeny fried Samwell’s family….
    Sam left the Citadel with all the important books, including the one he gave baby Sam to play with… NOOO….
    And Jon IS the actual king of the freaking Westerosi world… There was a annulment of Rhaegar’s marriage to Elia Martel… That can only mean he married Lyanna.
    Gendry is back!!!! and they incorporated rowing joke…
    Jon touched Drogon and Drogon didn’t fry him…

  178. Nothing else about the episode even matters. It was all good, but the only thing I can even think about right now?

    They almost revealed that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married and Jon is a trueborn Targaryen!!!!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!!!

    *dies from seven heart attacks*

    *resurrects self*

    *dies from seven heart attacks again*

  179. Ginevra:
    The Sansa Raven that LF setup for Arya to find.Is it real?What does it say?

    Is it not the scroll that Sansa sent to Winterfell after Ned was executed?

  180. Ginevra,

    It’s the note that Sansa wrote to Robb at Cersei’s urging in Season 1 asking him to come to King’s Landing and bend the knee to Joffrey. Littlefinger is counting on that to further turn Arya against Sansa, although she’d have to be a complete idiot to think that she’d write something like that out of her own free will.

  181. mariamb:
    Yes, I was shouting, too. And yes, I hope it’s in that cart.

    Of course it is. They didn’t show us that to let that hang in the wind. Sam’s got it with him; or at the least, Gilly or little Sam does. It’s in the cart.

  182. So Sansa does want to be the Queen in the North and Arya felt it.

    I think it is natural for her to have that ambition, but LF will use it now.

  183. Jack Bauer 24,

    I would have to go back to S1 for the exact wording, but it’s the message Sansa sent to Robb when Cersei urged her to write to him asking that her swear fealty to Joffery; this was when Ned was still in the KL dungeon, after being taken prisoner.
    Obviously LF is planting it to foment discord between Arya & Sansa by playing on the old prejudices of their childhoods.

  184. ash:
    cuddlycrow,

    Yeah, not sure that was the way to go here….

    Agree. It just doesn’t feel right. The Sansa/Arya convo was too weird. All of the sudden Arya can read minds. Really?

  185. Ginevra,

    Can somebody remind me did Cersei ask Sansa to send a raven to Robb at some point outlining Ned’s treason (perceived from the Lannister point-of-view) and asking him to bend the knee? Is this that message or is it some more elaborate forgery setup by Littlefinger?

  186. The full text was:

    Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.

    Cersei (and by extension, Littlefinger) forced Sansa to write it.

  187. Ravyn:
    I’m not one to complain about the jumping locations, but honestly that episode gave even me whiplash, especially with how Tyrion moved around. When he was on the beach w/ Jorah, I thought they were leaving Dragonstone, not arriving at KL. Some good moments, but they obviously needed to move a lot of pieces around to get to the last two episodes. Kinda wish they had done this in two episodes instead of cramming it into one. I’ll have to watch it again, but this might’ve been my least favorite ep of the season, so far.

    yeah I wonder if the story of going beyond the wall to capture a Wight walker is from GRRM books….

    Daenerys could fly her children to the Wall and torch the masses of Wights and be done with it.

    Who here thinks Cersie is really pregnant?

    or is Cercei making Jamie her _____!

  188. mariamb,

    Speaking of this… Jon may have a small pecker (according to Tormund) but he definitely has a pair of balls!! Touching Drogon who just came from frying Lannisters and Tarlys!

  189. RBloodworth:
    Ginevra,

    Littlefinger is counting on that to further turn Arya against Sansa, although she’d have to be a complete idiot to think that she’d write something like that out of her own free will.

    Yes, but Arya now knows that Sansa has desire to be QITN, so she will question her loyalty to Jon. And the Starks as well.

  190. Loved that episode! So much going on and the pacing felt good (I was expecting it to end when Sam left the citadel). Having said that, it did feel a bit rushed at the end. I would have liked more conversation between that massive crew of characters that just got together, but I guess we’ll get that next week. I want some more conversation between Jorah and Jon about Jeor, as well as between Jon and the Hound about Arya and Sansa. Oh and between Jon and Gendry about Arya… and the Hound and Tormund about Brianne…. okay, it seems I want quite a lot…

    I can’t believe they delivered the bombshell of Rhaegar annulling his marriage to Elia and his marriage to “another” in like that. My heart was pounding. I really wanted Sam to double take and go “wait, what did you just say?”, but the fact that it’s been mentioned in this fashion guarantees it’ll be brought up again at a later date. Convenient placing of book in baby Sam’s lap is evidence of that much.

    Ahh! Excited and terrified for next week. I am so invested in so many of those characters going north and I am pretty scared about how many of them we are going to lose. This is GOT; there is no way they are all making it back.

  191. Love Drogon’s purr. 🙂

    Wondering if Elia knew that her marriage had been annulled and her husband married to another woman.

  192. So, the biggest part of the episode for me was the point where Gilly found proof of Jon’s fucking legitimacy!!!!!!!!!!!! Take that, the-bastard-is-really-a-secret-bastard theorists!

    Gilly, using closed-captioning:

    Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for Prince “Ragger”
    and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne.

    Jon Targaryen!!!!! The Prince (not Bastard) That Was Promised!!!!

  193. Grayven Reyne: Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

    It was an uggh vs coolish episode for me. That first scene was so damn uggh.

    Once again, Bronn saves the day though. Yay, Bronn….lukewarmly… :/

  194. firstone:

    Who here think Cersie is really pregnant?

    or is Cercei making Jamie her _____!

    It definitely crossed my mind immediately that Cersei could be making up the pregnancy to manipulate Jaime and keep him loyal to her.

  195. Loved the episode, I have really enjoyed the whole season. Jon and Drogon was amazing. Only quip, with Bran being at Winterfell it takes some of the suspense away for me because I would just check with him on everything. He would tell Arya, no it’s a ruse. I know they don’t quite get his power, but you think Littlefinger might have caught on after last week. Anything he tries to use past events to try and create present animosity for, Bran would know. I way over think this show lol.

  196. Dee Stark,

    You are understanding it wrong, Rhaegar got an annulment to be with Lynanna Stark before Jon Snow was even born.

    Robert’s Rebellion was a long war that started soon after Rheagar and Lyanna ran away, during that time he got the annulment and they were “proper” husband and wife.

    So basically Jon was NOT born a bastard and is the rightful king of Westeros.

  197. After seeing the preview for the next ep and knowing it’s gonna be 71 mins I am so pumped for it!!!

  198. Boojam,

    It’s the scroll Sansa wrote (under duress and at Cersei’s direction / dictation) when Ned was in custody for treason in Season One. Everyone at Winterfell dismissed it as ‘Cersei’s words’ (Arya was in King’s Landing) but without the appropriate context, it’s going to make Sansa look TERRIBLE to Arya.

  199. Dee Stark:
    weirwoodtreehugger,

    OKAY QUESTION

    WHY would he need to get an annulment if she died..

    No clue. Since Targs frequently did polygamy, I wouldn’t think they’d need to. I’m not sure if the show ever established it though, so maybe that’s an adaptation change? I’m just more focused on the secret marriage bit!

  200. Loved it but then again I love every episode lol.Jon and Drogon I’m dead!!Dany is probably dead too haha.Don’t worry girl I wouldn’t want to let him leave too.Gilly for MVP.Kit’s voice:We don’t know who this Ragger is.Can you believe the northern lords.LIke Jon is bending over backwards to save their asses and they can’t fucking wait two minutes.Do they want Jon to rock them to bed.He should have given them to Dany like yesterday.Let her Randyll Tarly them.Also I hear congrats are in order for Cersei and Jaime.I hope it’s not another Joffrey lmao.

  201. dothrakian raven,

    I legit started squealing when Gilly asked “What does ‘annulment’ mean?” b/c I knew there was no other Very Big Damn Important marital status we need to know about.

  202. How spoilery is the episode 6 promo? Did it not include a preview for the finale? Usually they have a “only 2 episodes left” promo

  203. Yeah… I just what everyone in house Stark to get along.

    My guess is that Arya is an expert at reading faces, and lies, with her experience as a FM. With the exception of Littlefinger that is.

    Cue the Sansa haters bashing their keyboards…3…2…1…

    cuddlycrow: Agree. It just doesn’t feel right. The Sansa/Arya convo was too weird. All of the sudden Arya can read minds. Really?

  204. Ginevra,

    YES YES YES!!!

    You see how Dany looks at him? It is like she can’t breath lol… She is super powerfully drawn to Jon, its nuts!

  205. Jack Bauer 24:
    What did the scroll Arya find say?

    From what I could tell it was the letter in Season 1 that Cersei and Varys and LF made her write to Robb after Ned was killed to come and bend the knee (which explains LF look)

    At the time Cat and Robb saw it as “Sansa’s handwriting, but the Queens words”

    It is awkward now though on two points
    1) Obviously Arya thinks it shows a pro-Joffrey bias on Sansa’s part even following Neds death which isn’t good for their relations
    2) It would be a political torpedo to any ambitions Sansa has to leadership in the North if it was revealed this was her sentiment at the same time the Northern Lords were declaring Robb King in the North because of “Southron sentiment”

    In this case it seems to be the show equivalent of Arya finding out that

    That in AGOT Sansa went and blabbed to Cersei about Neds plans

    It actually ties in very well thematically with Dany the Southron Queen attempting to get Jon to bend the knee

    Have to say loving the Winterfell intrigue, brings back the Games of Thrones machinations vibe in amidst all the climactic battles

  206. Sunfyre: It definitely crossed my mind immediately that Cersei could be making up the pregnancy to manipulate Jaime and keep him loyal to her.

    But didn’t we hear Qyburn say something like “I could give you something for it?”
    Either morning sickness or she wants to end the pregnancy?

  207. Sansa’s Knight:
    Stunned … and finally they addressed the fact that the all hate each other so much for their past deeds … can only imagine what Dany meeting Cersie will be like

    I like to see what would happen if Daenerys and Jamie Lannister found themselves in the same room

  208. Dee Stark,

    Dee, please see my above comment.

    All the book readers theory’s are finally coming true!

    We all knew this and its great for the show to finally confirm it!

    Rhaegar and Lyanna were IN LOVE, like passionate love…
    Like Helen of Troy type shit!

    When they ran off, Rheagar did this to legitimize their children from the very start. They are nobles and smart and know how bloodlines work!

    Its so freaking awesome I am so happy!

  209. Jon/Drogon scene was LIFE.. until Gilly spilled the beans about Prince “Raggar”..
    I have to watch it again just to actually watch the Mag 7 come together….its gonna be FUN watching those guys play off each other

    best line of the ep goes to (as usual) Ser davos “…thought you might still be rowing”

    the Daves love us.. they really do hehehe

  210. Grayven Reyne:
    The full text was:

    Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.

    Cersei (and by extension, Littlefinger) forced Sansa to write it.

    Thank you!

  211. Ginevra,

    It’s some letter Sansa wrote to Robb to tell him to bend the knee to Joffrey when she was under the Lannisters’ control. It will make Arya hate Sansa for being weak.

  212. Dee Stark,

    Elia was murdered (along with her 2 children) during the sack of KL a week or 2 after Rhegar was killed during the battle of the Trident. The annulment and remarriage would have taken place before or around the time Jon was conceived, which was appx a year before prior.

  213. Dee Stark,

    Since we don’t know the exact yearly calendar in Westeros it’s a bit murky, but Rhaegar left Elia to elope with Lyanna long before hostilities began. Jon/Jaeherys/whatever his real name is, was conceived prior to the Battle on the Trident. After that was the Sack of Kings Landing and the rape and murder of Elia Martell

  214. shortstack,

    The last episode this season will echo the last episode of last season, we’ll see the wedding and know that Jon is legit, as we’ve suspected all along.

  215. Arthur,

    It was inevitable they were going to fall for one another and this episode was the first time they seemed to have a deeper connection/chemistry (in my opinion). I think it’s a dramatic set-up for when they find out Jon is her nephew (legitimate too, ha!). I don’t know if they’d put their feelings for one another aside, but it’ll chuck a whole load of complications into who is the rightful heir and who needs to be bending the knee to whom. All that will be for season 8 though I imagine – I think Jon will find out about his real parents from Bran in episode 7 (his plot famous is so thick, there is no way he is dying next week north of the wall).

  216. Che:
    Apollo,

    Burning alive as execution and burning as a weapon during battle are quite different. Dany needs to tread carefully if she is to avoid resurrecting her father’s reputation (burning people alive out of battle).

    The problem is she already did. Despite the situation is different (the Tarly’s betrayed the Tyrell’s), burning a father and son sounds too similar to how her dad killed the Starks (Rickard and Brandon) back in the day they came demanding to bring Lyanna home.

  217. Jon snow is Azor Ahai!!!

    Which kind of sucks because Dany is going to have to smelt Light Bringer with her heart.

    And Jon and Dany are both going to have to die to save the kingdom.

    We are all going to cry so fucking hard!

  218. Interesting things from this episode….

    1. if Annulments are allowed, then Jon Snow isn’t a bastard and is the true king of the 7 kingdoms.

    2. Gendry is back in play…. Who also has Targaryan blood in him (look it up, it’s true).

    3. The North has quickly assembled an unbelievable pack of great fighters. Besides the 7 going beyond the wall, Winterfell still has Arya & Brianna.

    I think this might have been my favorite episode of the season. Giant battles are great, but this episode had something special to it.

  219. Dee Stark:
    Okay I am confused

    Which marriage did rhaeghar have annulés And WHAT was the secret ceremony

    lol

    Rhaegar has his marriage to Elia Martell (Doran and Oberyns sister) anulled in order to pave the way for him to marry Lyanna Stark

    This has massive repercussions because it means Jon is Rhaegar’s 3rd son, legitimate and the Targaryen heir to Westeros before Viserys and Daenarys – and there’s somewhat written evidence alongside the heavily implied evidence that “what is the best KG and the LC of the KG doing at the Tower of Joy” instead of getting killed or slashed up ala Ser Barristan Selmy at the Trident etc

    I theorised in the books Rhaegar had more than one wife which was a pseudo Targaryen custom at times

    Of course we tie in the early scene thematically with Randyll Tarly, Dany is Queen via conquest, and “breaking the wheel” also means breaking the rules of succession. Other side of that coin is the Northern Lords saying the put Jon Snow King, so there’s a degree of people choosing who they follow to lead

  220. Che,

    Maybe it will be one of the gross montages this year. Sam finding out that Jon is Danny’s nephew, cut to them having sex.

  221. Dee Stark,

    I believe Rhaegar knew abut the Prince that was promised prophecy and actually planned for it to be Jon so he did what he had to do to make all pieces fall into place. He wanted Jon to be the rightful heir.

  222. Stimpy Stark:
    Loved the episode, I have really enjoyed the whole season. Jon and Drogon was amazing. Only quip, with Bran being at Winterfell it takes some of the suspense away for me because I would just check with him on everything. He would tell Arya, no it’s a ruse. I know they don’t quite get his power, but you think Littlefinger might have caught on after last week. Anything he tries to use past events to try and create present animosity for, Bran would know. I way over think this show lol.

    That’s actually been my one real problem with the season so far. Bran has to know what’s up. The “chaos is a ladder” callback made that clear enough. So why is he letting LF smarm around Winterfell? I can only hope he has reason to wait for a certain time to reveal it all. Obviously, an intra-Stark succession war would not do the living any favors in the war against the White Walkers, so even if he doesn’t feel an emotional connection to his family, he’s still got to help them and get rid of LF.

    I guess we’ll see. The show has been trying so hard to make it seem like the Starks will turn on each other, that I have to think they will actually unite and Littlefinger has finally fucked with the wrong people. Arya’s gonna kill him and Sansa will be all for it. I still believe it.

  223. Dee Stark,

    Dee!Yes he annuled his marriage to Elia and married Lyanna and there is proof apparently.Yes even if they had two children.And yes Jon was born legitimate and is supposed to be king under a Targ rule.

  224. Arthur,

    I think it’s kind of horrible that he would abandon his wife. But I was excited about it. I just wonder if it matters or if Jon will ever know.

    It’s making me think more about his destiny. I really didn’t expect a SoIF to be a traditional unknown identity hero epic. It keeps me guessing. Is it a bait and switch from GRRM? Does he want us to think that’s what gen is setting us up for so he can pull the rug out in the end?

    Whatever anyone else may think, I don’t think Jon wants that destiny. At least not just yet.

    Also I don’t like the stark sisters at each other’s throats. Calm down, Arya. Littlefinger is a sneaky C-nt.

  225. This episode is taking me a while to process! So many things happened I have to admit I got a bit dizzy. I love this show but I think this is the episode that could have worked if it was split into 2 to let some things marinate and breathe a little. I’ll definitely need a rewatch.

    Anyway, Jon is legit!!!! 😃Can this be true??? 😃

  226. It was a good episode but Hill is still the weakest writer on the show. I always feel like he needs few lines to better explain characters’ motivations.

    We needed more lines at that meeting at Dragnstone and more lines from Gendry to explain his motivation now.

    D&D and Cogman were able to sell things this season I thought were strange from the leaks, and Hill failed to completely sell something that made perfect sense to me, like for example white hunt.

  227. The original Stargaryen,

    Yup. I can see them doing that. I have to say, prior to this episode I was totally on the “yeah, they’re both hot and don’t know they’re related, but seriously, aunt-nephew incest is not cool” train, but having seen the way Dany was staring at him today, I am starting to be swayed. I can’t believe I just wrote that!!!

  228. I haven’t read any spoilers or leaks…. but I think it is pretty obvious that Littlefinger dies soon. He has no further purpose to the story. Plus, in the trailer Sansa says something about how the “pack survives”. I’d imagine she says it to Littlefinger who is dying at the hands of Sansa, Arya, or Tarth.

  229. UnfortunTely, my reaction to this episode was:

    Dany kills DICKON UGHHHH

    Jaime escapes UGHHHH

    Jorah and Gendry back only to go and die UGHHH

    Sansa vs Arya UGHHHHH

    Cersei “pregnant” manipulates Jaime UGHHHHHHH

    I mean it was sill good TV but Now I just feel very tense UGHHHHHHHH

  230. firstone: I like to see what would happen if Daenerys and Jamie Lannister found themselves in the same room

    They should start making out I would pay to watch that

  231. I know some won’t like it but I love that Littlefinger’s (final?) effort at manipulation isn’t between different Houses but between and among the Stark’s themselves. It’s using his talents as a character to lay bare the conflicts within the Stark family. The tension that arises from Jon, a “bastard”, being named KITN vs. Sansa. The longstanding sisterly rivalry between Arya and Sansa. The loyalty and affection of Arya for Jon and vice-versa.

    It’s kind of perfect to use Littlefinger in this way. Feels like everything, all those pre-existing conflicts between the Stark siblings, are now coming full circle. Honestly reminds me of The Godfather in how emotionally loaded it all is within this one family.

  232. — We’re all on the same side.
    — How can we be?
    — We’re breathing.
    — But Cersi’s wino breath is more powerful than dragon glass.
    — Yes, it has the power of ten fire-breathing dragon’s breaths, but we have to have faith in our cause because winter is here…
    — Got any wine?
    — Oh shutup, Hound.
    — Got any chickens then? I could eat all the chickens.
    — With all due respect, Ser Davos, nobody asked you.
    — But I like chicken!
    — There’s a larger war to fight than over poultry.
    — I’m just saying the Hound is right. Chickens first, then fighting.
    — Dude, you’ve been hanging out with Tormund too long.
    — Can we at least share a jug of sour goat’s milk?
    — Oh, alright. Geez, you people…

  233. GhostCR</strong
    GhostCR,

    I think you’re right there. I think when/if Jon finds out (or Sam finds out and then challenges Jon), it’ll cause friction too. I really wish she hadn’t done that. Dany still has so much to learn; she really needs to listen to Tyrion a bit more sometimes.

  234. ok..watched last few minutes…

    love that the hound was like “are we gonna do this or not bitches….”

  235. weirwoodtreehugger,

    Who was there to actually confirm that? Am I missing something or does the it even matter whether Jon was legitimized or a bastard!

    He has no right to rule anything as the Baratheon’s crushed the Targaryen dynasty and took charge.

    People take control in this world depending on the power and resources they have, not birthright.

    The Targaryen’s ruled for so long because they had all the power, even after the dragons were long gone. But there were still a multitude of rebellions.

    I always felt Jon’s lineage was more about the magical and historic elements of his bloodline (fire and ice), than some political drama of rightful heir n shit.

  236. stefan666:
    If there ever was fanservice in this show it is Gendry returning lmao.

    What did the red witch say to him as they passed King’s Landing on the boat?

    “You are more then they could ever be. They are just foot soldiers in the great war. You will make kings rise and fall. ”

    Gendry has dragon’s blood in him too. His Great Grandmother was a Targ.

    The dragon always has “3 heads”. Dany, Jon, & Gendry.

    Fan service? BWAHAHAHA

  237. Damn it, Cersei. Still manipulating Jaime after all this time. What’s the one thing Jaime’s always wanted? To love Cersei openly and acknowledge his children. Now she’s “giving” him that. Dollars to donuts, she’s NOT pregnant and Jaime will find out. Leading to a certain prophecy, perhaps? Whatever, I just need her dead.

    Jon and Drogon? Gilly and the book?! They are just dropping the anvils with regard to Jon this year, aren’t they? Not that it’s a complaint after so many years of speculation! Could someone please TELL Jon already? And I need to see Dany’s face when she finds out that her nephew is alive and well! He, he. I swear when Gilly said the word annulment, I almost dropped my phone! That’s not something many people were speculating!

    Can Littlefinger just die already?!

    Also here for the Jon/Gendry bromance!

  238. GhostCR: The problem is she already did. Despite the situation is different (the Tarly’s betrayed the Tyrell’s), burning a father and son sounds too similar to how her dad killed the Starks (Rickard and Brandon) back in the day they came demanding to bring Lyanna home.

    Yeah the Dothraki and Drogo(n) invasion and bend the knee or go up in flames in the “illegitimate” side to Dany and even goes to show that Roberts concerns in Season 1 was legitimate

    And kinda shows that Cersei’s points when making overtures to the Reach Lords had some validity

    Other side as we know is the whole Mhysa and Breaker of Chains thing, and in the case of Ser Jorah

    Interesting is religion, under Cersei her illegitimate side is there is no religion since the Sept went up in flames and Ser Gregor is an abomination that besmirches the hallowed institution of the Kingsguard to boot, which isn’t great for a society

    Dany though is legitimised by religion, whether it is Red Priests and the PtwP and in terms of the Dothraki Dany was the one who DIDN’T go up in flames hence they follow her

    As for Jon, well he was chosen but isn’t seen to be there ruling in the North while important preparations are being made. And of course as leader of the Watch he was perceived to have betrayed it

  239. I’m so pleased that Jon pet a dragon. That’s got to be why Dany trusted him enough to let him go. He’s Drogon approved. Part of me hoped that Rhaegal would’ve taken off and joined Jon on his journey north. Because I think he’s Jon’s dragon, the one that he’ll eventually ride.

  240. Dee Stark:
    shortstack,

    But why would he get the annulment ??? To protect her?

    Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so he could marry Lyanna Mormont (as Gilly said in the episode that he immediately married another) to make Jon legit.

  241. Casso: The funny thing is that I recently (in a thread about getting gold from Highgarden to King’s Landing in a fortnight) estimated that show!Westeros is about 2/3 scale of book!Westeros based on Roose Bolton’s statements about the size of the North (when legitimizing Ramsay).If that’s the case, then the guards at Winterfell telling Arya that Jon Snow was “a thousand miles” away were almost exactly literally correct.

    In Season 1 it was a thousand leagues from KL to the wall (3500 miles from two different sources). This season it is only 1000 miles from DS to WF from two different sources.

  242. Jon and drogon ❤️❤️❤️❤️

    Jon and Dany….. I honestly felt Emilia’s emotions when she felt that Jon was saying he wanted to leave… amazing…. and the way she looked at him when he touched drogon.

    I’m so happy… they have a connection and I don’t feel it like sexual..

    Also.. I’m so over Jamie I cannot wait till he dies

    The crew at the end was life

    This needs a major rewatch because so much dialogue

    My heart breaks for what’s happening at winterfell. I’m so worried.

    I loved it and so nervous

  243. Teleportation really was ridiculous this episode haha

    Can understand though because there are only 7 eps and the plot needs to move forward

    ROFL how did Tyrion get back almost as quick as Dany to Dragonstone

    LOL how the heck did they get from KL to Eastwatch so quick (really tripped out when they showed it on the opening credits, I guess that stands for the Night’s King lol)

    Ooh nearly forgot to mention, a nice little highlight of the episode for me funnily enough was Ser Davos making the good creative effort to avoid violence….but I guess we had to get our display of how Gendry knows how to use the Warhammer

    Was wondering if the topic of Gendry knowing how to smith Dragonglass would come up tbh

  244. Who else got a ‘Dirty Dozen’ vibe as Jon, Tormund, Gendry, Jorah, Beric, Thoros and The Hound march out beyond The Wall?

  245. Arthur:
    Ginevra,

    YES YES YES!!!

    You see how Dany looks at him?It is like she can’t breath lol…She is super powerfully drawn to Jon, itsnuts!

    I was more interested in how Drogon was drawn to Jon. I ship it! (No, not really. I want Jon to get a dragon of his own. #wakedragonsfromstone)

  246. “Eastwatch” will most likely inevitably be labeled a piecemover episode by those expecting blood and action, especially after last week. But I loved every second of it!

    Jon. Tormund. Jorah. Beric. Thoros. GENDRY. Sandor. I’ll follow that crew into battle and frozen hell every day of the year! Last heroes, one and all.

    The looks that Dany was giving Jon in this episode are accelerating my unabashed descent into a full-blown Jonerys shipper. I’m aware of where I currently stand. I refuse to apologize.

    Seeing Jaime and Tyrion interact again was fantastic. The reveal that Cersei is pregnant with Jaime’s child is an interesting complication. I’m eager to see where it goes.

    And Gilly! My girl Gilly! Sam may not have heard that bombshell you dropped, but I did. A wildling woman that everyone overlooks is responsible for perhaps the most critical reveal in the show’s history. Shireen’s lessons paid off!

    One final note: seeing Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in the opening credits was an awesome surprise. I didn’t think we would.

    I’m looking forward to watching the episode again in half an hour.

  247. Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

    GENDRY … third dragon rider?

  248. Overall, a pretty good episode. Not great but pretty good indeed. A lot of setup so next week promises a lot of excitement !

    Daenerys : I am fine with her invading all she wants but can she please be coherent and stop calling herself “breaker of chains” ? In Westeros, she is nobody’s favourite option, no one’s chosen queen. She is not breaking any chain so this label is not just inappropriate but also downright hypocritical !
    RIP Dickon and Daddy Tarly. They did not deserve their fate and faced their death bravely. A very good move on the writers’ part to give Daenerys’s victims a face and name so as to highlight the consequences of the Breaker of Chains’s “liberation”.

    Jon : much better ! He is becoming a half-decent politician. I truly enjoyed his refusal to stay put and obey Daenerys’s orders. He argued well and asserted his position with clarity and intelligence. However, I am genuinely annoyed he did not advocate more forcefully ! He has the moral highground over his aunt and he should bloody well use it. The Targaryens owe the Starks three lives; Jon should ask for the dragons as payment. Bargain harder, especially after successfully petting one of the flying lizards !
    Sidenote : those Targaryen genes sure do come in handy ^^

    As for Jon’s decision to go beyond the Wall, while I understand it strategically, I cannot shake the notion that it is everything but what a king would do. A ruler owes it to his/her people to stick around, not fight on the frontline. As Tyrion said, a “smart one” knows not to play hero : there are other people for that.

    Cersei was strangely moving this episode. Her joy and defiance as a result of her pregnancy was a sight to behold. And bloody hell, she continues to be good at her job ! She keeps her temper under control and intends to think thoroughly before she acts. This is a truly interesting development for her character and emphasises how wrong her father was about her : her brashness was never an inherent quality in her, it was the consequence of decades of frustration and humiliation. Now liberated from the prison of the world’s expectations, she performs much better than anyone could have hoped. One question though : is she truly pregnant or is she faking to ensure Jaime’s loyalty after his encounter with Tyrion ? The former is more probable but I wouldn’t put the latter past dearest Cersei.
    Jaime’s continues his slow shift and I enjoy the finesse of his arc. The man who for most of his life ran away from responsibility of any sort, be it official or moral, discovered his desire to be involved in something bigger than himself through his interaction with Brienne and it has increasingly permeated everything in his existence, especially fatherhood. He nows wants to be held accountable, publicly acknowledged as responsible for someone.
    It may sound heretical to book purists but I find the Lannister twins infinitely more interesting on the show than in the novels !

    Tyrion : once again, one of the best narrative arcs. He is starting to notice his queen’s political shortcomings but struggles to accept them due to the position he granted her in his life. At long last, Peter Dinklage is being given to do and he fails to disappoint… Tyrion’s interaction with Varys was extremely well paced. His conversation with Jaime, while far too short enough for my liking, was equally satisfying. We saw glimpses of Tyrion’s ever-so-complicated relationship with his family and struggle with his own identity, both as a man and as a lion. Brilliantly done !

    Winterfell : Arya… I truly enjoyed the subtle parallel the writers introduced between her and Daenerys. The Mother of Dragons wants anyone who does not submit in whichever way she sees fit to be killed; the younger Stark sister now wishes for those who dare to even breathe a word against Jon to be punished… Very nicely done !
    It is also delightful to see the writers’ choice not to have the feuding sisters operate as a team (for now); their relationship is in a state of arrested development, stuck as it was six years ago, the resentment and opposition are still present and Arya’s passive aggressive behaviour is a testament to that. She believes the worst of her sister because she wants to believe it. And Littlefinger certainly intends to use this want of hers, because it is what he does best ^^

    The Northern Lords and Lord Royce are as predicted, namely headstrong and demanding. A cabal is organising and if Lyanna Mormont joins it, Jon’s reign is toast. I think it will all depend on whether the King in the North bends the knee or not and, unfortunately, I cannot shake the feeling that he will do just that eventually. He is a sentimental, he seems to “like” Daenerys (:P ) and, if he is really convinced that she is the salvation mankind needs, he will do as she asks which, given the reputation the Mother of Dragons must have by now (killing a father and his son like her dad once did to the Starks), can only lead to the North rejecting him…

    Gendry : is it wrong of me not to care one bit about him if not for Davos’s author-insert joke about his rowing prowesses ? ^^

    The Hound : yeah ! Short but sweet, and always cutting through the bull excrement.

    Sam : Westeros’s very own academic iconoclast, bless him ^^ Good on him to challenge the maesters’ authority and conservatism. However, it would be nice if he could pay attention to what Gilly reads to him 😉
    Sidenote : he still does not know that Daenerys killed his brother and father. If and when he finds out, I wonder how he will view his best friend’s association with the Mother of Dragons…

  249. When Dany killed the Masters, she was liberating people from slavery and winning a war. Even though brutal, one could see the purpose and the logic.

    But I don’t see the same justification with the Tarlys. Sure they fought for the other side and wouldn’t “bend the knee”, but this was a classic case where taking prisoners of war was warranted. These men weren’t evil slavetraders nor did they “betray” her. Killing them in cold blood, after the battle had been won, is a signature of a Mad Queen, not a benevolent ruler.

    I mean, at least Sansa had a point with the houses that betrayed the Starks in the North. I’m guessing they’ll get along.

  250. Holy…
    Just want to get that last bit out of the way. THAT is a video game I want to play-I swear.
    Next episode-Our all-star quest is on the way beyond the wall to face ice magic and they are all on fire
    Jon-Targaryen brought back (possibly) by lord of light=fire
    Beric-brought back by lord of light and previously known as the Lightning lord=fire
    Thoros-red priest=fire
    Gendry-Baratheon blood has some Targ in it, plus he’s a smith-master of the forge=fire
    Hound-burned by fire, leaves KL after wildfire battle and sees visions in the fire=fire,fire,fire
    Tormund-Wildling kissed by fire (red hair)
    Jorah Mormont-well he’s from Bear Island but he did witness the birth of dragons, watch them grow up etc. He definitely has a big passion for the mother of dragons.=spark/fire

    I think they picked the right people for this quest!

  251. I was pretty sure that Sansa’s letter to Robb was the ravenscroll Littlefinger wanted. I hate that this episode confirmed it. He’s an absolute sh#& for ruining the Stark reunion, after all the heartbreaks they’ve suffered.

  252. Golden hand the sister fooker,

    If it wasn’t important, it wouldn’t be part of the story. There’s something in the prophecy Rhaegar read that we don’t know yet that makes it matter, I guess.

    If Jon and Dany find out, it would complicate their fragile possible alliance too. Would Dany try to kill him to avoid a possible succession conflict? Would they enter a political marriage to unite north and south? If it became common knowledge, it could cause the northerners to turn on him. It also has an impact on Jon’s character. Being a bastard has informed so many of the choices Jon has made and how he sees himself. He seems like the kind of person who doesn’t want to rule, just has it thrust on him. Will that change when he finds out who he is? Will he start to want power? He was always jealous of Robb and his status. There’s no way he won’t derive some sort of satisfaction in finding out that he was higher status all along.

    There are so, so many exciting implications regarding this.

  253. stefan666:
    If there ever was fanservice in this show it is Gendry returning lmao.

    Tbf I think there is a point to it, eg he can be legitimised by Dany and used to bring the Stormlands and their Lords back into play…and so we may see Baratheon soldiers again…

  254. rhymeswithweak:
    Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

    GENDRY … third dragon rider?

    It also shows what a dick Rheagar is to Elia, who just gave birth to Aegon.

  255. Ginevra: Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so he could marry Lyanna Mormont (as Gilly said in the episode that he immediately married another) to make Jon legit.

    Just did a double take! Think you meant Lyanna Stark 🙂

  256. BobDole: It also shows what a dick Rheagar is to Elia, who just gave birth to Aegon.

    Which helps explains Oberyns attitude in S5E1 when talking to Tyrion

    Don’t think Oberyn would have liked Jon

  257. If Gendry was experiencing divine intervention, what are the chances he got his hands on dragonglass and just happened to integrate it into his war hammer?
    I didn’t think of this till my partner, who isn’t nearly as into the show as I am, brought it up. I was so proud 🙂 I was outdone in GoT speculation outside of WotW.

  258. rhymeswithweak:
    Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

    GENDRY … third dragon rider?

    I thought the books confirmed Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage?

  259. This episode is taking me a while to process! So many things happened I have to admit I got a bit dizzy. I love this show but I think this is the episode that could have worked if it was split into 2 to let some things marinate and breathe a little. I’ll definitely need a rewatch.

    Anyway, Jon is legit!!!! 😃Can this be true??? 😃 And Jon and Drogon like each other. Aww. 😍

    And I haven’t even started processing Gendry’s return yet. What a surprise!!! Oh my.

  260. weirwoodtreehugger,

    If Jon and Dany find out, it would complicate their fragile possible alliance too. Would Dany try to kill him to avoid a possible succession conflict?

    Hello weirwood,

    I truly believe Jon and Dany are going to meet with Bran. Bran is going to do some crazy three-eyed raven shit, take them by the hands and make them see.

    Bran is the key here, in regards to showing Jon and Dany that they are blood.

    He is the only way to show them so they both believe and work together as family.

    At least in my opinion, he can share his visions with them, bring them both to tears and unite them in their sacrifice to save Westeros.

  261. THANK YOU JEEBUS FOR HAVING LF SHOW HIS GAME!!! Awesome.

    “Dear Robb,
    Dad’s a traitor, lolz, my poor Joffrey.
    Sansaaaa”

    Arya will figure out his game. But hey, maybe she’ll take out Sansa first. 😉

  262. Che: I really wanted Sam to double take and go “wait, what did you just say?”, but the fact that it’s been mentioned in this fashion guarantees it’ll be brought up again at a later date.

    I almost cheered, but then I was like: “Wait a minute – what would make him think any special about that?” We only react beacuse we’ve shared Bran’s vision, but Sam has no reason to think Rhaegar-stories are important information, does he?

    So nice with a little non-fighting episode amd still it was very entertaining with a lot going on. Holy s…?

  263. RG,

    Your post just blew my mind. It all happened so fast didn’t have time for this to sink in, the symbolic significance of each individual character.

  264. Well Gilly thought Jon was a king since A Clash of Kings so this is cool.I mean it doesn’t even matter if Jon bends to Dany.He is a Targaryen.He can’t hold the north as an independent kingdom anyway.Rip lol.I mean there is an obvious solution to their problems anyway.I am sure they will figure it out eventually.Arya’s loyalty to Jon are what dreams are made of and I’m literally gonna die when they reunite.

  265. Arthur,

    Yeah. In most other stories, it would end with Jon and Dany married and living happily ever after with his and hers Iron Thrones. But one or both of them having to die to save the world is entirely plausible in this one.

    To me, a happy ending would just mean a Stark – any Stark – in Winterfell. Certainly not expecting the fairy tale ending!

  266. Jack Bauer 24: I thought the books confirmed Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage?

    No, the books never confirmed anything. Lyanna was purportedly kidnapped by Rhaegar, which started the war. We knew, “Promise me, Ned,” but not what he promised her beyond the fact that it made him sick for the rest of his life. We knew the kingsguard were present when Ned found her at the Tower of Joy and that she died in a bed of blood and roses. And that was about it.

  267. IJS: I called Jaime and Bronn escaping…. I would have liked a moment or two of confusion (charred horses, etc) where Tyrion would have to deal (for a moment with his brother’s apparent “death”) …

    But the season rolls on quickly….

    Looks like Jon Targaryen (he is legitimately a Targ now!!) has a team of “superfriends” to take beyond the wall!!

    Who will survive?!

    Will Gendry live on to become head of House Baratheon?

    Will Tormund live on to love Brianne?

    Will Beric Dondarrian live on to pass on Dawn?

    Will the Hound live on to fight in Clegane Bowl or reunite with Arya?

    Will Thoros of Myr live on for one more drink?

    Will Jorah live on to be forever in the “friend zone” with his Khalessi?!

    And as an aside: Will Sam take on being Lord Tarly?

    Stay tuned, True Believers… Same Dragon time… Same Dragon channel!!

  268. Pigeon:
    THANK YOU JEEBUS FOR HAVING LF SHOW HIS GAME!!! Awesome.

    OMG he’s such a dangerous man, that sneaky little shit! Just like I wished for yesterday in another article yesteday: “A last desperate move for us to experience an unfiltered raging version of the small, lowborn mockingbird, who climbed the ladder of chaos higher than any other – a very dangerous Mr. Petyr “Littlefinger” Baelish!”.

  269. Silent Sister:
    I was pretty sure that Sansa’s letter to Robb was the ravenscroll Littlefinger wanted. I hate that this episode confirmed it. He’s an absolute sh#& for ruining the Stark reunion, after all the heartbreaks they’ve suffered.

    That’s LF for you lol

    tbf though this I suspect is the way to bring the book plot into it, eg in the books when Robbs Stark banner is lowered from RR it was a big thematic point about Robbs joint Kingdom of North and RL coming to an end

    I suspect in the books the RL will fall in behind Sansa with BF ruling out of RR, and the Vale too given “Alayne’s” influence over SR, so I reckon Sansa gets a joint Kingdom out of Riverlands and the Vale which she rules out of Harrenhall (Wolf with Bat wings) and I reckon the North (clansmen in particular) get behind Jon with a form of Stark civil war occurring

    From this perspective Arya’s attitude makes perfect sense as I expect her to support Jon

    In terms of the show it also makes sense given Arya and Sansa’s issues about Joffrey which wasn’t ever really resolved

    Of course the stakes are so much higher now that Sansa has some real political power and Arya is highly trained lol

    Of course the show and the intrigue would be so much better if we had the Blackfish as Sansa’s version of Lyanna Mormont in it but anyway I guess we are supposed to make do with Lord Royce?…

  270. What I Loved:
    -Jon and Dany
    -Dragon CGI / cinematography
    -Arya and Baelish

    What I Liked:
    -Dany roasting Tarlys
    -Gendry + war hammer
    -Bran White Walker vision

    What I Disliked:
    -Sam at the Citadel
    -Hooked on phonics Gilly

    What I Hated:
    -Battle of the Reach being over to start the episode?
    -Ploy to bring White Walker to Cersei
    -Ridiculous way how Gendry was brought back into the show
    -Joe Dempsie’s name appearing in the credits
    -Ridiculous Tyrion going back to King’s Landing to meet with Jaime
    -No Tyrion / Bronn reunion
    -Sansa / Arya fued

    Yeah, so wow. The wheels really came off in this one. At the center of the utter ridiculousness of this episode is the whole ploy to bring a White Walker to Cersei to get her in the fold. Not like Dany doesn’t have 3 dragons and a ginormous army, but let’s send a lot of our best men on a very dangerous mission and also let’s send Tyrion into King’s Landing.

    Speaking of which, Tyrion going to King’s Landing and walking right in with only Davos at his side was just wow. Davos knows there will be no guards, though it’s been decades since he’s been to King’s Landing. And then Tyrion walks right into the dungeon of the Red Keep to meet with Jaime. We don’t get any reunion with Bronn. And Cersei knows and still lets it happen? Even with Tyrion being responsible for Myrcella and for killing Tywin? Just horrifying all around.

    Meanwhile, Davos ditches Tyrion to go to flea bottom to look for Gendry? Really, so he’s going to leave Tyrion to go to Flea Bottom on the million to one shot Gendry is there? And why would he even care to find Gendry at this point? Utterly ridiculous.

    So yeah, I could keep going on about how moronic this episode was but don’t really feel like it. The plotting on the show has now gone to network television level.

  271. mariamb: But didn’t we hear Qyburn say something like “I could give you something for it?”
    Either morning sickness or she wants to end the pregnancy?

    I took that as an intentional part of the possible deception. Qyburn waiting to say those words at the moment he knew Jaime had entered the room. Don’t get me wrong, the pregnancy could be real but I wouldn’t put it past Cersei to use a false one to manipulate Jaime now that everything is crumbling around her.

  272. Just noticed Cercei mentioned buying mercenaries. While we already know from last week that she’s probably referring to the Golden Company, perhaps there’s another…

    …group of sellswords itching to join the fight? Second Sons, perhaps? Daario might be getting a little bored by now and Dany did spurn him. Just speculatin’.
  273. Ah forgot to mention, good thing Bran is there to mediate aka crack Arya and Sansa’s heads together if need be lol

    I reckon it is Bran who ends up being LF’s undoing though, he can’t be manipulated as we saw last week and he can spot any LF scheme in a second and if Arya/Sansa sisterly bitch fight (personally loving it) becomes a real issue to mobilising against NK it would get his attention and he would simply out LF

    Speaking of Bran, massive ROFL, after taking over/warging all them Ravens, sending them all the way over the Wall, gets flushed out by NK and then is all “we need to send lots of Ravens”….

  274. ACME,

    You’re not alone. I don’t care much about Gendry… but his interaction with Jon was funny: “our father were friends!” (weeeeelll… actually, Gendry, your father killed Jon’s dad.)

    And regarding Arya, she’s a true Stark: quick temper, slow mind.

  275. Samwell Tarly, Lord of Horn Hill 🙂 …or was he disinherited when he was sent off to The Wall?

  276. ash: He needed an anulment from his wife Elia so he could marry Leannna.

    Yeah it needs to be mentioned this is while she was alive, probably right after they run off, that way Jon is conceived while Rhaegar and Lyanna are married

    Elia died after the battle of the Trident where Rhaegar died, and then they (rebels) came in and sacked KL, when Lyanna would have beena round 6-7 months pregnant

  277. Dead Dane Walking:
    Samwell Tarly, Lord of Horn Hill …or was he disinherited when he was sent off to The Wall?

    Depends,

    If the Watch simply crumbles and is no more (cough Thoros was about to mention the Wall coming down I think cough) then basically the whole NW vows becomes void if they are all dead…in which case Sam is free to become Lord of Horn Hill despite his sister(s) who may or may not be married to that fellow he mentioned

  278. Dead Dane Walking:
    Samwell Tarly, Lord of Horn Hill …or was he disinherited when he was sent off to The Wall?

    Yes, Night’s watch vow dis-inherits his claim….but little Sam could be the heir (everyone believes he is Sam’s son).

  279. I loved the look on Dany’s face when Drogon bent down to greet Jon. It was a mix of concern and confusion. Like, “what’s my dragon doing?”.

    Have to admit I was hoping Drogon would torch him and Jon would remain standing, bare naked. A girl has dreams.

  280. I was so busy watching the show I missed some of the show, namely the Jon isn’t a bastard part. (°_°)/

    But the beauty of being on vaca is having the luxury of time to dissect the %$#@ out of this puppy.

  281. I have one major bone to pick that seems to me an obvious oversight and a really sloppy plothole.

    The last episode, unambiguously, ended with Tyrion witnessing Jaime attempting to murder Dany and failing, either dying by fire or drowning in armor.

    Tyrion then, without any evidence, goes beyond hoping that Jaime survived and somehow retreated back to Kings Landing without the Dothraki catching he or Bronn on foot, but KNOWS Jaime survived and is back in Kings Landing safe and sound, plus that Bronn is around Kings Landing to be a liaison.

    This seemed like really lazy writing and something that soured the otherwise quality episode for me. How is this rationally possible for Tyrion?

    The time tables are also all kinds of fucked up.

    Dany appears to arrive back to Dragonstone almost immediately due to flight, leaving many of the Dothraki to I assume march back with their prisoners (they couldn’t have just left the Lannisters after they bent the knee?) back to the sea to take ships back to Dragonstone (presumably with Tyrion). Yet, one of the main Dothraki that was WITH Tyrion appears to be back with Dany at the same time in order to introduce Jorah… If they all came back together in the bare minimum week (generous) it would take to move everyone back, then Jon’s comment about being back quickly is all the more glaring.

    Then you have Tyrion and Davos making what should be weeks of raven-sending between Tyrion and Bronn (assuming Bronn gets mail?), setting a time and place up, and then the days it would take to travel between Kings Landing and Dragonstone, appear to look like a mild afternoon trip.

    Further, Jon’s been down in Dragonstone now for weeks, if not months. It would take a few more weeks on top of that for him to sail to Eastwatch, and weeks more to return (which he inevitably will). That means Arya and Sansa and Littlefingers’ drama is unfolding at a painfully slow rate. What are they doing in all of this downtime? Why is Bran not conveying whatever he needs to tell Jon via raven like he does in this episode with the wight army?

    I think it was good to show the North getting restless without Jon but I also would like to see Jon correspond back asking the Northern families to come and help defend Eastwatch from an imminent attack. That would give them things to do in the time it takes Jon to travel and would complicate the Littlefinger drama as he undermines Jon’s attempts to rally the North by manipulating Sansa.

  282. Jack Bauer 24:
    So is Gendry forging the dragon glass? Why did Davos go find him?

    Because Davos is a caring man. The most humbled one there is. He thinks of others. So while in Kings Landing why not think of another bastard from the same neighborhood as his which is Flea Bottom.
    Stannis chopped Davos fingers off and he still remained loyal and continue to care.
    So the answer to your question simply it was to pay the boy a visit, Gendry looked unhappy, he offered to join him since they have a better cause and probably can use his talent and boom!
    It’s not complicated

  283. Thoughts-so many
    I mean yes, I got whiplash-they are racing through this wish-fulfillment roller coaster-but man what a ride!

    Winterfell-Sansa passed a test for me, turning down the obvious attempt of the suddenly fickle Northern lords to make her their leader-but Arya clearly was on to something when she saw that Sansa was tempted to accept. I get it-men have screwed her over and she knows she can do the job-but she’s trying. She seems like she is.
    LF is screwing with everything. He’s talking to the lords, using a letter Sansa wrote under threat etc. I think back in the day this would have worked, but I don’t think it will now. Arya is a trained observer and then, of course, we have Bran. Arya could always ask him what’s going on, and he wouldn’t lie, because he has no skin in the game. He’s the 3 eyed Bran. *crossing things*

    Field of Fire hangover-Tyrion is clearly having issues training his dragon…mother. But come on-it’s Randyll Tarly. I’m okay with Randyll bbq and he didn’t give her a choice.
    Dickon was a shame, but the cool thing is, Sam is the last remaining heir who-though he took the black-is bffs with one king and saved the life of the bff of the dragon queen. Pretty sure Horn Hill could be his if he wants it. Heck, it’s big enough to start another Citadel-one that actually cares about doing more than harrumphing.

    Jaime was thrown by the dragons, drawn to Tyrion…heck he was doing great until nearly crazy Cersei told him she was pregnant. I hate her. I really do (which means the actress is doing a great job) She sucked him back in-and I almost threw the remote at the tv.
    She’s plotting something evil with Qyburn, I know it.
    Oh and Bronn needs to leave town. Like yesterday.

    DROGON AND JON!!!! I knew it! I knew they’d smell him and react! My bil is wondering if Tyrion is Targ now because they were also cool with him-but I can’t think about that because JON Targaryen pet the wild, giant Drogon and Dany was giving him those “my dragon likes you” eyes and it was just fantastic.

    Jorah showed up just in time to have a little “I’m closer to Dany than you” eye contest with Jon and volunteer to go beyond the wall with him to snag evidence for Cersei. Also he knows Thoros-wonder if they’ll talk about a certain tourney like LF did-hoping that will lead to a flashback.

    Also-Dany was joining Jon is such an epic puppy eyes stare off, I can’t even stand it. lol In a good way. Whatever it takes to get her to stop asking him to bend his knee and help the man out with the Night King.

    Citadel- I wanted to high five and hug Sam when he was like “You know, if you guys actually stopped talking smack and thought with those big brains for five minutes, you’d know exactly what to do. What would it hurt to look up the info? To send a few ravens? You too busy writing your own memoirs?
    And then I wanted to smack him when Gilly-(because of course it’s Gilly. It’s always Gilly.) When Gilly rolls out a fan theory that we don’t get to hear the end of because he’s irritated!
    Now I always thought Rhaegar married Lyanna-I did. Why? Because Kings guard don’t guard mistresses with bastards. He had legitimate children and siblings alive at that time in the Red Keep and Dragonstone. But his best King’s guard-the best swords in Westeros-were standing outside the Tower of Joy and guarding Lyanna and newborn Jon.
    I didn’t know he annulled his other marriage though. Targs were into polyamory-Aegon had two wives.
    Still OMG Jon is NOT a bastard. He’s got more of a claim to the throne than Dany (though I doubt he’d ever want it) And the dragons LOVE him.
    ****But wtf is Ghost?****

    Finally my favorite bit of news. GENDRY “Look at my war hammer” BARATHEON is in the house!!! Did you notice the nod to first episode w/ Robert and Ned when Jon and Gendry meet?
    “You’ve gotten fat”
    Ned eyes the king as if to say “Look who’s talking”
    “You’re not as big”
    “You’re not as tall” (its true, he’s really not)
    🙂
    Now Gendry-our only smith and part of Arya’s pack and future lover (in my head) is finally finally finally back after 3-4 years. And he left KL so fast my head spun lol-Like he’d been packed this whole time.

    I don’t care if it was a nod to the fans-of course it was-Davos wondering if he was still rowing was like a damn hug and I loved it.

    I need to watch it again.

  284. Jack Bauer 24:
    If Gendry went back to KL why did he leave to begin with?

    Character reason: Because the gold cloaks were trying to kill him when he left. By the time he returned about two years later, anyone who cared already thought he was long dead and had forgotten about him.

    Story reason: To have someone for Arya to bond with during her journeys in the Riverlands, and to introduce Gendry early enough that he doesn’t feel just “tacked on” if/when he has an important role later in the story.

  285. When last we see Jon leaving out of the gates in this episode, he only has half a dozen companions: Davos, Gendry, Tormund, the Hound, Beric, and Thoros. I love, however, how he has a full dozen in the trailer, just like the Last Hero set off to the North with his dozen companions, none of which returned with him. Or maybe I’m not so much loving that part, actually!

    I do love how Jon is now Jon Snow of House Targaryen, Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne, Rightful King of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Uniter of Wildlings, the Prince That Was Promised, the Last Hero, Azor Ahai Reborn, the Breaker of Death.

    How do you like them titles, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea?

    And how about all that dragonglass in the trailer? That is a dragonglass axe the Hound swings at the wight, right?

    I’m hoping that Beric shows Jon the trick to lighting his sword to become AAR is to use some of his own undead blood, right? I’m going to scream when Jon lights up Longclaw!!!!

  286. King Podrick,

    Yeah uh Davos leaving the boat and Tyrion to go to Flea Bottom where he’s a fugitive on the million to one chance to find a guy he had one meeting with is utterly insane. There is no just no way to spin it, no matter how much you love the show.

  287. Really hoping Sansa and Arya are playing Littlefinger. Arya would be a much better ninja assassin than she showed tonight.

  288. If Rhaegar’s marriage was annulled before Dany’s birth, what is her status? Is thete some reversal there?

  289. Ginevra:
    When last we see Jon leaving out of the gates in this episode, he only has half a dozen companions:Davos, Gendry, Tormund, the Hound, Beric, and Thoros.I love, however, how he has a full dozen in the trailer, just like the Last Hero set off to the North with his dozen companions, none of which returned with him.Or maybe I’m not so much loving that part, actually!

    I do love how Jon is now Jon Snow of House Targaryen, Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne, Rightful King of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Uniter of Wildlings, the Prince That Was Promised, the Last Hero, Azor Ahai Reborn, the Breaker of Death.

    How do you like them titles, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea?

    And how about all that dragonglass in the trailer?That is a dragonglass axe the Hound swings at the wight, right?

    I’m hoping that Beric shows Jon the trick to lighting his sword to become AAR is to use some of his own undead blood, right?I’m going to scream when Jon lights up Longclaw!!!!

    If he has a dozen companions in the trailer where do the rest come from?

  290. LatrineDiggerBrian,

    I agree with some of what you said, but I’m still betting on Gendry having a bigger role to play in the endgame. Not just based on Melissandre’s prophesy, but…

    I’ve often wondered if he could actually be Cercei’s first son. Her only son with Robert was dark-haired and “died”, and Gendry also at one point recalls his mother being a “golden haired woman” singing to him. Admittedly this is an out-there theory (that I didn’t come up with obviously), but early on in the series the pieces were laid out in such a way that it could be possible.
  291. Sunfyre:
    RG,

    Your post just blew my mind. It all happened so fast didn’t have time for this to sink in, the symbolic significance of each individual character.

    Since the trailer when I saw the men in the circle I’ve been thinking about the Last Hero story. 12 companions, loyal dog etc. And after Hound’s vision I knew they were going to be there.
    It is pretty cool, yeah? Except for the part where at least one or two of them have to die to convey the seriousness of the situation.
    I hate that part.

  292. Daniel U:
    I have one major bone to pick that seems to me an obvious oversight and a really sloppy plothole.

    The last episode, unambiguously, ended with Tyrion witnessing Jaime attempting to murder Dany and failing, either dying by fire or drowning in armor.

    Tyrion then, without any evidence, goes beyond hoping that Jaime survived and somehow retreated back to Kings Landing without the Dothraki catching he or Bronn on foot, but KNOWS Jaime survived and is back in Kings Landing safe and sound, plus that Bronn is around Kings Landing to be a liaison.

    This seemed like really lazy writing and something that soured the otherwise quality episode for me. How is this rationally possible for Tyrion?

    The time tables are also all kinds of fucked up.

    Dany appears to arrive back to Dragonstone almost immediately due to flight, leaving many of the Dothraki to I assume march back with their prisoners (they couldn’t have just left the Lannisters after they bent the knee?) back to the sea to take ships back to Dragonstone (presumably with Tyrion). Yet, one of the main Dothraki that was WITH Tyrion appears to be back with Dany at the same time in order to introduce Jorah… If they all came back together in the bare minimum week (generous) it would take to move everyone back, then Jon’s comment about being back quickly is all the more glaring.

    Tyrion had the super-secret knowledge that Bronn was the Merman of Blackwater Rush and so could swim 20,000 leagues under the river, retrieve Jaime, swim 20,000 leagues away from Dany while keeping Jaime alive via mermagic, and surface again to escape.

  293. Davidneverreadthebooks:
    If Rhaegar’s marriage was annulled before Dany’s birth, what is her status?Is thete some reversal there?

    It doesn’t matter if the annulment was before or after. Dany is Rhaegar’s sister. They are both children of the Mad King.

    Jon is the rightful ruler of the Iron Throne by birth.

  294. I knew it. Rhaegar was gentle and not a rapist. He married Lyanna. Jon snow is the real king of the seven kingdoms. I ❤️Jon.

  295. thisgirlhasnoname,

    I always wanted it to be
    “I have a son, you have a daughter. We’ll join our houses.” Robert’s dream come true.

    But Arya might be too ninja for that to ever end happily.
    I know-it’s a sappy idea. I hope, at least, they’ll get to see each other again.

  296. Pigeon:
    Also, it always seems to me that Rhaegar was a right c*nt when it comes down to it.

    By all accounts…. both in the book and the show, Rhaegar was a really nice guy. The only “mean” thing he ever did was to pass up his wife for Lyanna. The only reason he likely did it was out of duty to the realm, as he needed to create “The Prince That Was Promised”. At least that was his belief. We still don’t know if that is true.

  297. Davidneverreadthebooks:
    If Rhaegar’s marriage was annulled before Dany’s birth, what is her status?Is thete some reversal there?

    Rhaegar is her brother, but Jon is in line before her because she’s younger than Rhaegar. So she’s right after Jon in line to the throne.

  298. Ginevra:

    I do love how Jon is now Jon Snow of House Targaryen, Rightful Heir to the Iron Throne, Rightful King of the Andals and the First Men, Protector of the Seven Kingdoms, the Uniter of Wildlings, the Prince That Was Promised, the Last Hero, Azor Ahai Reborn, the Breaker of Death.

    How do you like them titles, Khaleesi of the Great Grass Sea?

    YES
    add Ender of the Long Night, Bringer of the Dawn to that. 🙂

  299. Golden hand the sister fooker,

    So many sweet summer children in this thread that this long time lurker feels I have to comment on the real significance of Gilly’s lines from the book:

    Rhaegar was deeply into prophecy and understood that “the Dragon must have three heads” and there would be “The Prince That Was Promised”. He married Elia Martell with the intention of fulfilling that prophecy, but she had a weak constitution and childbirth nearly killed her. As a result, after the birth of their second child, she could not bear any more children.

    So Rhaegar had to solve the problem of how to have a third child. Meanwhile, before Robert’s Rebellion, there was a grand tourney at Harrenhal attended by all the noble families in Westeros. Rhaegar won the tourney and had to crown the Queen of Love and Beauty. Everyone was laughing and smiling, expecting him to crown his wife Elia, but he passed her by and crowned Lyanna Stark (“and all the smiles died”).

    Robert Baratheon was betrothed to Lyanna and was furious. This set off the chain of events that led to Rhaegar eloping with Lyanna to The Tower of Joy (although in Robert’s mind she was kidnapped and raped), the Rebellion, The Battle of The Trident (where Robert killed Rhaegar), the sacking of King’s Landing (where The Mountain raped and killed Elia and then killed her two children) and Ned’s journey to The Tower of Joy (where he found Lyanna in “a bed of blood” and “promised” to keep her secret, just before she died).

    Ned came back from this journey with a “bastard” child, but this surprised everyone who knew Ned, since he was an honorable man. As has been revealed in the show (and strongly hinted in the books), therefore, this bastard was actually Lyanna’s son with Rhaegar, but until tonight’s revelations he had not been legitimized as The Prince Who Was Promised (because to be a Prince, Rhaegar had to have been legally married to Lyanna).

    Ergo the show just confirmed that Jon Snow is The Prince That Was Promised (who is needed to defeat the Night’s King). This is fucking huge!

  300. Ginevra: Rhaegar is her brother, but Jon is in line before her because she’s younger than Rhaegar.So she’s right after Jon in line to the throne.

    And she is a woman. A true born male heir will always be in line before a female.

  301. Jack Bauer 24: If he has a dozen companions in the trailer where do the rest come from?

    We didn’t see the gates shut, so I think we have a dozen nameless wildlings following after the big six.

  302. Daniel U:
    I have one major bone to pick that seems to me an obvious oversight and a really sloppy plothole.

    The last episode, unambiguously, ended with Tyrion witnessing Jaime attempting to murder Dany and failing, either dying by fire or drowning in armor.

    Tyrion then, without any evidence, goes beyond hoping that Jaime survived and somehow retreated back to Kings Landing without the Dothraki catching he or Bronn on foot, but KNOWS Jaime survived and is back in Kings Landing safe and sound, plus that Bronn is around Kings Landing to be a liaison.

    This seemed like really lazy writing and something that soured the otherwise quality episode for me. How is this rationally possible for Tyrion?

    The time tables are also all kinds of fucked up.

    Dany appears to arrive back to Dragonstone almost immediately due to flight, leaving many of the Dothraki to I assume march back with their prisoners (they couldn’t have just left the Lannisters after they bent the knee?) back to the sea to take ships back to Dragonstone (presumably with Tyrion). Yet, one of the main Dothraki that was WITH Tyrion appears to be back with Dany at the same time in order to introduce Jorah… If they all came back together in the bare minimum week (generous) it would take to move everyone back, then Jon’s comment about being back quickly is all the more glaring.

    Then you have Tyrion and Davos making what should be weeks of raven-sending between Tyrion and Bronn (assuming Bronn gets mail?), setting a time and place up, and then the days it would take to travel between Kings Landing and Dragonstone, appear to look like a mild afternoon trip.

    Further, Jon’s been down in Dragonstone now for weeks, if not months. It would take a few more weeks on top of that for him to sail to Eastwatch, and weeks more to return (which he inevitably will). That means Arya and Sansa and Littlefingers’ drama is unfolding at a painfully slow rate. What are they doing in all of this downtime? Why is Bran not conveying whatever he needs to tell Jon via raven like he does in this episode with the wight army?

    I think it was good to show the North getting restless without Jon but I also would like to see Jon correspond back asking the Northern families to come and help defend Eastwatch from an imminent attack. That would give them things to do in the time it takes Jon to travel and would complicate the Littlefinger drama as he undermines Jon’s attempts to rally the North by manipulating Sansa.

    The same Dothraki showed back up with Dany?

  303. RG: YES
    add Ender of the Long Night, Bringer of the Dawn to that. 🙂

    Well, yes, that will come eventually! And Waker of Dragons from Stone. At least a girl can dream…

  304. The Bastard: And she is a woman.A true born male heir will always be in line before a female.

    Not under the Targaryens, right? Or was that just the Dornish?

  305. The Bastard,

    Rhaegar’s hubris in believing he could ignore all those unpaid parking tickets was his ultimate downfall imho. GRR Martin is from New Jersey, after all. 😉

  306. Jon sure wants to be a hero. What other king would be going on what looks like a death mission. How do u pick off a wight from the army? It’s not like they go out foraging for food and you can get one alone.

    I love Jon. But he isn’t too bright. Definitely not politically savvy. He’s a Stark at heart. Quick tempers. Slow minds.

  307. The Bastard,

    I guess but in all honesty it doesn’t make a difference in this case.It would work the same right now with the throne of England too.Rhaegar was the oldest child.Jon is his heir.Princess Anne can’t be queen before Prince William.

  308. The Bastard: By all accounts…. both in the book and the show, Rhaegar was a really nice guy.The only “mean” thing he ever did was to pass up his wife for Lyanna.The only reason he likely did it was out of duty to the realm, as he needed to create “The Prince That Was Promised”.At least that was his belief.We still don’t know if that is true.

    Still a dick. He abandons his wife, a new born baby and runs over and takes Lyanna down south without explaining anything to their family.
    He basically starts the war, killing thousands. “Nice guy”.

  309. Excellent episode advancing many storylines. It looks like after the Battle of the Loot Train, Daenerys has already halted her conquest of Westeros and is now in a holding mode with respect to the NK and his army. Not so Cersei – still scheming and playing her game of thrones. And completely on top of her information network. Cersei’s pregnancy is quite melodramatic. As expected, Jaime’s and Bronn’s triple strength Valyrian plot armor was in full display this episode.
    Awesome that Tarly Sr. was burnt. Sad about Dickon, I wish someone had been around to talk him out of it. Good to see everyone else surrendered. Funny how Tyrion was absolutely horrified at the Tarlys’ death by fire, but was quite nonchalant about the death of those two common folk, the Goldcloaks, only because of him. This double standard is disturbing.
    Arya has become very judgemental and unpleasant. It seems she thrives on finding an enemy in every corner, and is still dredging up her old enmity with Sansa.
    Drogon and Mommy and Jon! Awesome moments – the best part of the episode! Drogon checked Jon out, gave his seal of approval, then off he flew! 😀 Jorah’s return was everything I’d hoped for. And was that Jon looking a teeny bit jealous at Daenerys and Jorah’s hug? 🙂
    Aww…. Gendry and Jon, talking about their dads as BFFs. In reality, Gendry’s pops killed Jon’s pops…….
    Tormund and his “big woman.” 🙂 The BWB and the fellowship of the wight hunt. 😀

  310. The Bastard: And she is a woman.A true born male heir will always be in line before a female.

    True for siblings, but “A daughter comes before a brother” (usually – there are a few exceptions)

    That is to say, if Viserys was the heir after Rhaegar – rather than Rhaegar’s half-Dornish children (which is rumored), then the heir of Viserys – Dany – has the best claim.

  311. thisgirlhasnoname,

    I don’t want to read the spoiler text, but yeah I’m not disagreeing that Gendry has a larger part in the story as Robert’s bastard. I was really looking forward to his return. But the way they brought him back into the story was just horrendous. Awful awful awful.

  312. The Bastard: By all accounts…. both in the book and the show, Rhaegar was a really nice guy.The only “mean” thing he ever did was to pass up his wife for Lyanna.The only reason he likely did it was out of duty to the realm, as he needed to create “The Prince That Was Promised”.At least that was his belief.We still don’t know if that is true.

    Oh yes I’m sure he was a super nice guy with his harp and his singing and flowy hair, but the whole publicly embarrassing his wife at the tourney/throwing her over for someone else/not leaving a few of his guards to protect her as well as Lyanna/etc was just really, really shitty.

  313. Demon Monkey,

    Jon knows the risks but he won’t make other people do things he wouldn’t do himself.Plus he knows the enemy.If you want something done do it yourself.Not to mention Jon has three heirs so it’s okay.

  314. Concerned bro Tyrion didn’t even look for Jamie after the battle and then when Tyrion talked to Jamie in person…

    Tyrion didn’t even ask Jamie was hurt or how he got out of the water?… or how Jamie was able to avoid capture and get back to King’s Landing…. did Jamie and Bronn walk back to King’s Landing?

  315. Stu525,

    Yea, but the show is pretty clear that prophesies aren’t straightforward. So I wouldn’t bank on it. Also, it’s ridiculous to discount Dany. But I don’t hold too much with the specifics of the prophesy. It seems just not as interesting as the human element either.

  316. Hodors Bastard,

    Yeah. I realize he’s frustrated with the maesters, but the mention of a “PRINCE Ra-gar” should have struck a tone for someone as smart as him. After all, how many princes are in the 7 kingdoms aside from Dorne and the royal family?

  317. thisgirlhasnoname:
    When Dany killed the Masters, she was liberating people from slavery and winning a war. Even though brutal, one could see the purpose and the logic.

    But I don’t see the same justification with the Tarlys. Sure they fought for the other side and wouldn’t “bend the knee”, but this was a classic case where taking prisoners of war was warranted. These men weren’t evil slavetraders nor did they “betray” her. Killing them in cold blood, after the battle had been won, is a signature of a Mad Queen, not a benevolent ruler.

    I mean, at least Sansa had a point with the houses that betrayed the Starks in the North. I’m guessing they’ll get along.

    Are you forgetting that the Tarly’s were Olenna Tyrell’s bannermen? They were sworn to protect and support her causes and yet they betrayed their oaths and sided with the Cersei (who just recently had blown up a Sept full of worshippers, the High Septon and 3 of the most important Tyrells – Mace, Loras and Queen Margaery). This led to Olenna’s execution by poison and the deaths of countless Highgarden people. Cersei had murdered Olenna’s kinsmen and the Tarly’s – instead of helping Olenna avenge those deaths, became oathbreakers.

    Dany was well within her rights as sworn ally of Olenna to avenge her house and execute the traitors for their treasonous acts. And yet she still gave them a choice, a way out to save face and be pardoned for their crimes (crimes which even Jon believed were heinous and punishable by death btw).

  318. The Bastard,

    I get the excitement over the marriage reveal. But I feel like when you talk about him being the ‘rightful ruler’ it suggests you haven’t been paying attention. Were Robert, Joffrey, Tommen, or Cercei the ‘rightful ruler’? Or Stannis? Or any of the rest?

    I don’t understand why we can’t agree that lineage is one factor in many. But we don’t have to agree.

  319. firstone:
    Concerned bro Tyrion didn’t even look for Jamie after the battle and then when Tyriontalked to Jamie in person…

    Tyrion didn’t even ask Jamie was hurt or how he got out of the water?… or how Jamie was able to avoid capture and get back to King’s Landing…. did Jamie and Bronn walk back to King’s Landing?

    The battle happened very close to King’s Landing, so presumably they did walk back to the city. The lead wagons of the loot train (with the gold) had already reached the city, but it was a long train traveling single file waiting to cross the Blackwater Rush. There was probably only one bridge for them to cross, so they got attacked by a dragon and a horde of Dothraki while stuck in a traffic jam. That seems like an unpleasant situation all around.

  320. Did anyone else notice the LOTR similarities? The ravens Bran sent north of the wall to spy on the Night King, kinda like the large black birds Sauron sent to watch the road to Mordor? Also, The Fellowship had 7 companions (8 including Frodo), and 7 men went through the Eastwatch gate tonight to go north of the wall on a quest (sadly, without Sean Bean this time).

  321. The Bastard,

    Rhaegar was basically a silver-haired Jon who could play the harp. Kind, loving, FANTASTIC at brooding.
    “Rhaegar fought valiantly, Rhaegar fought nobly. And Rhaegar died.”
    Replace that with Jon and it still works 🙂

    I think now that we now this new piece of intel-we’re going to find out that Lyanna tried to send letter to her family that she was married not kidnapped and raped (Because she’s also not the type to leave that hanging-they were both very honorable) but it was intercepted somehow.

  322. Sullied by Knight,

    I like the explanation D&D gave. Arya underestimates LF. And I think we might have too. Before this season I always thought ‘don’t underestimate LF!’ He was always one or three steps ahead of everyone. And he proved it here again.

  323. I think if we really want to be technical, the targaryen aren’t the rightful heirs. They came over riding on their dragons forcing the people who were already in westeros to bend a knee.

  324. BobDole: Yes, Night’s watch vow dis-inherits his claim….but little Sam could be the heir (everyone believes he is Sam’s son).

    Since Sam can’t marry, Little Sam has no claim either. He is (as far as anybody is concerned) doubly disqualified by being the bastard of a man who explicitly swore not to father children.

  325. Concerned bro Tyrion didn’t even look for Jamie after the battle…

    I believe the image at the top of this post shows Tyrion doing just that. (At that moment, Tyron obviously didn’t know Jaime and Bronn had used their “plot armor flotation vests” to escape death.)

    Dany was well within her rights as sworn ally of Olenna to avenge her house and execute the traitors for their treasonous acts. And yet she still gave them a choice, a way out to save face and be pardoned for their crimes (crimes which even Jon believed were heinous and punishable by death btw).

    This. Lord Turncloak Tarly’s treachery had led to the execution of an old woman, whom he had sworn to protect (!), purely as a revenge-killing. And the “revenge” wasn’t even the murder of Joffrey, but just for being smarter and wiser than Cersei. (That Cersei ordered Oleanna’s execution without even suspecting Oleanna had killed Joffrey shows how much of an unjust execution this really was.)

    I was really hoping Dickon would bend the knee. During the Tarly Family Reunion scene last season, he’d refused to believe White Walkers really existed, and also bragged that he’s taken down a stag at 70 yards with one shot. I figured this meant Dickon would redeem himself by plugging a White Walker with an obsidian-tipped arrow at long range, to save Sam or another major character.

  326. firstone,

    Yeah that part was disturbing.
    The only thing I can think-and the timing doesn’t match-is that Bronn sent word to Tyrion that Jaime was alive because of their history.
    Bronn did say dragons change things and left Jaime by the water.
    There had to be some chatter between them to set up that meeting. Maybe Bronn started it because he wants to change sides?
    I’m reaching.
    I’m glad it happened-but the how is the wobbly bit.

  327. Ginevra:
    Cast Commentary on Drogon-Jorah-Jon Meetups:

    Iain and Emilia just have that electricity between them that makes them both better – they’ve been together since the first episode! Jorah brings out the best in Dany, and I just loved this scene. 😊

    But I’m shipping Jon and Jorah, so GO JONAH!!!!!!

  328. Arthur,

    Maybe Jon is, hard to tell as he would be keeping those kind of feelings on the sidelines right now, however the spark of love that shone in Dany’s eyes was unmistakable!

  329. So either Cersei is faking the pregnancy, she’s going to miscarry, or she’s going to be dead within 9 months because she’s already used her allotment of three children from the maegi.

  330. Pigeon,

    I love Jorah Dany chemistry. He is just…sigh
    Me too Jonah lol
    Also-I’ve been waiting for years for Gendry and Arya to get together again but no-we get Gendry and Jon!
    So okay.
    Go JONAH!! And/OR JENDRY!!
    🙂

  331. Ok, I’m already on my third watching, I loved this episode, it moves along beautifully. As I watch, these are some of the things that have come up all three times:
    Bran’s power is increasing, and he knows enough to check on the progress of the undead army. His warg into the ravens was good thinking, but … BUT his power is not yet near as great as the Night King. With one glance, the NK dispersed the flock and shocked Bran into consciousness. So, does that mean that the NK can undo any warging Bran does?

    The stuff between Arya and Sansa makes no sense, whatsofucking ever. Arya is on Sansa’s case because Sansa always liked nice things? She’s mad because she thinks, what? Sansa wants to take over? Sansa has to think what will happen if Jon doesn’t come back – does Arya want her to sit there with no allies? Give me a break, Arya, use that crafty little head for something besides murder. Sansa spoke nothing but excellent political and social sense. Her head is not in the clouds, she’s thinking ahead for the safety of everyone, as the lady of the house is supposed to do. For the first time in the show, I want to smack Arya a little bit. Kill that lurking louse LF and be done with it instead of bothering your sister.

    JON IS legitimate . OMG yes. Yay Gilly, and High Septon Maynard. RAGGER. Sam said goodbye to his beloved library. So, where will he head first? Wonder how he will feel when he hears about Randyll and Dickon from some stranger on the road?

    side note, when Jon takes leave of Dany he says “I wish you fortune in the wars to come.” Somebody in a past episode said that to someone, and I can’t remember who, and for some reason, to me, it had a dark omen attached to it. Somebody remember who said it to whom?

    Gendry, hell yeah. They got him on board with no time wasted, and in a totally believable manner. I think the original plan was to send him to the Winterfell forges; Davos said as much as he was giving Gendry instructions of what to say to Jon. But they showed that Gendry has a somewhat political mind of his own, and no small amount of bravery. I loved Davos’s lament: “Nobody mind me, all I’ve done is live to a ripe old age.”

    RG: Oh and Bronn needs to leave town. Like yesterday.

    OMgosh, you are so right. Cersei’s got his number. I used to think he would meet his end on a battlefield somewhere, but maybe Cersei will put an end to him. She has moved beyond love and respect of Jaime in to the total control department. She will want to undo any attachment Jaime has outside of her, and Bronn, especially a Bronn who still has a fond attachment to Tyrion, will be her first target.

    Ok, I’m finishing my watching …

  332. LatrineDiggerBrian:
    King Podrick,

    Yeah uh Davos leaving the boat and Tyrion to go to Flea Bottom where he’s a fugitive on the million to one chance to find a guy he had one meeting with is utterly insane. There is no just no way to spin it, no matter how much you love the show.

    This is explained in the episode. Maybe you missed that part. You should rewatch it.

  333. LatrineDiggerBrian,

    The show creators have a budget they need to justify, and were faced with a difficult decision: spend 5 minutes filling in the gaps of a well-loved character that’s been missing for 5 seasons, or eunuch sex scene.
    Too soon to tell which would have been more gratifying.

  334. First impressions (SO MUCH to talk about!!)

    Jaime/Bronn: I don’t see how they eluded capture. Tyrion and some of the Dothraki saw them go in the water. You’d think either recovering their bodies or looking for them would have been a priority. I groaned at this unlikely escape.

    Dany/Drogon/Tyrion/the Tarlys: Tyrion’s emotion walking through the charred remains of the battlefield was incredibly moving, as was his attempt to reason with Dany over executing the Tarly men. As much as I hated Randall Tarly for his treatment of Sam, his steadfast loyalty to the crown and to his son got to me. As I posted earlier, this was a great chance for Dany to take valuable prisoners of war. Instead she friend them, as if refusing to bend the knee was on the same level as slave trading. Great scene and one that really shows that she has inherited a ruthlessness that may become her Achilles Heel.

    Sansa/Arya:
    Love how these two are falling back into their petty bickering. Sansa came out the winner. Loved seeing the scroll that Sansa was forced to write way back when. Perfect way for LF to stir the pot. I hope it’s his downfall.

    Tyrion/Jaime: Again, Tyrion won the scene. His emotional defense for killing their father, and his insecurity over being “a monster” broke my heart. I wanted to kick Jaime for interrupting.

    Dany/Jon/Drogon: So awesome. Jon was shaking. Incredible. Dan’s face when Drogon leaned down to greet Jon…confusion and maybe a little jealousy? Still wondering what was in the dragon’s eye. Will need to screencapture that later and zoom in. Laughed when Dany asked, “aren’t they beautiful?” and Jon said “Not the word I was thinking.” And then when seeing Dan’s face, backtracks and says “yes, beautiful beasts.” Hahaha. She’s not over-protective or anything.

    Sam/Citadel: Of course the Maesters dismissed his opinion. But Gilly’s revelation? YES! I mean, we knew Jon was legit, but still. Am also glad Sam left the Citadel. Way more important things happening in the world.

    Jaime/Cercei: Cercei’s pregnant? Hmm. I doubt it’s a ploy but can’t see a kid actually being born. There’s been nothing – that I can think of – to foreshadow another child. The prophesy didn’t mention it. Unless childbirth ends up killing her, in which case this could be Jaime killing her through childbirth.

    Jorah/Dany: Sweeter reunion than I expected. Looks like we’re being set up for a love triangle. Ugh. I’m not a Jonaerys shipper so a love triangle seems even more contrived to me.

    GENDRY: Hooray! I do think he has a bigger role to play in the endgame and don’t think he’s just Robert Baratheon’s bastard. I also still ship Gendry and Arya. I’m a hopeless romantic that way. Almost died laughing when Davos told him to keep his identity secret then he leads with it to Jon. Just wish he’d not only mentioned Ned but Arya as well.

    The scheme to convince Cercei of the Army of the Dead: WHYYYYY? Seriously? Like anyone believes Cercei would join the fight against the dead? They’re going to bring an undead person to KL? What? Sigh. Tyrion of all people should realize that she’s far more likely to try to seduce the Night King!! LOL.

    The Brotherhood/The Hound/Jon/Gendry/Tormund: I always love seeing Tormund and I hope he makes it through all of this nonsense. Wish The Hound had asked about Arya. But otherwise found this scene to be pretty hilarious.

    Overall a completely-packed episode that I seriously enjoyed and even loved, despite wondering the point of a raid against the wall for a dead person to gift Cercei and Jaime’s unlikely escape. Not in my top-10 for the series but in my top 20, and a good lead-in to what I’m hoping is an epic episode next week.

  335. Demon Monkey,

    Agreed that prophecies don’t always pan out, but I think the fact that the show already mentioned The Prince That Was Promised (while also giving us the misdirect that Dany could be The Princess That Was Promised) lends some weight to this being important for the story.

    What we have not heard yet on the show, it about whether TPTWP = Azor Ahai Reborn and, if so, whether the bittersweet ending in Season 8 will be the forging of Lightbringer, the sword needed to defeat the Night’s King, through his wife’s heart (which, sadly, will probably be Dany).

    I speculate that what may lead to this is that while Longclaw can kill White Walkers (as we have seen at Hardhome), it will shatter against the NK, and Jon will be given a vision of how to forge Lightbringer (by Mel?).

  336. Thronetender:
    side note, when Jon takes leave of Dany he says “I wish you fortune in the wars to come.”Somebody in a past episode said that to someone, and I can’t remember who, and for some reason, to me, it had a dark omen attached to it. Somebody remember who said it to whom?

    I believe both Arthur Dayne and Mance Rayder said it, and both died shortly afterwards.

  337. Thronetender: side note, when Jon takes leave of Dany he says “I wish you fortune in the wars to come.” Somebody in a past episode said that to someone, and I can’t remember who, and for some reason, to me, it had a dark omen attached to it. Somebody remember who said it to whom?

    Ser Arthur Dayne, to Young Ned Stark at the ToJ. 🙂

  338. The Molehill that Rides:
    Who else got a ‘Dirty Dozen’ vibe as Jon, Tormund, Gendry, Jorah, Beric, Thoros and The Hound march out beyond The Wall?

    It’s pretty much like my biggest wish to see them together and my biggest panic attack wondering who is gonna bite it. Ack ook eek!!! 😨😨😨

  339. I don’t think LF is about to die because, first, from a writer point of view, he STILL has a huge role to play. He is dividing Arya and Sansa and part of the North will eventually stop trusting Jon (either because he will marry Daenarys or because he will be revealed a Targaryen, not without mentioning, Sansa is already being more popular than him because she makes the popular choices while Jon makes the hard and disliked choices).

    Second, because he is still has a lot of good cards to play. Even if Sansa is more self-confident, she still lack the political wisdom of LF so despite her, when the North will be divided between her and Jon (and they will be divided), she will ask for LF advises.

    Not knowing Jon is a Targaryan, Sansa would eventually reconciliate with Jon. But that reconciliation will happen just before they realize Jon is a Targaryen and after that, Sansa would never be able to let Jon rule the North. Not with the crave for power she already has. At that moment, Sansa will challenge Jon for the North. LF will be too important for the plot then so he cannot die just yet. Sansa and Jon will eventually reconciliate again before the end of season 8 because they need to be united to win against the dead…but Jon and Sansa second reconciliation would be the last most interesting obstacles in Jon and Daenaerys destiny. And only then LF will be useless and even then….

    if HBO spinoff idea was actually to follow The Prince that was promise (which in my opinion will be the son of Jon and Daenerys…(the Son of the King and Queen of Westeros) aka the Stallion Who Mount the World (the son of Khal Daenarys meaning not her has wife of Khal Drogo, but the son she had as Khal Daenarys), then Sansa and LF would still be useful.

  340. Okay but Gilly has the scoop.I don’t want anyone stealing her thunder.Like she discovered it before Bran lmao.

  341. RG,

    Good post trying to make sense out of Tyrion’s choice of actions and words to say …..

    “chaos is a ladder”

    Eastwatch – 5/10

  342. Pigeon,

    The only people I think can’t die in that group for story purpose is Jon, Gendry and the Hound.
    I hate even saying that, and this might be the first week I’m not impatient for next Sunday.
    *cuddles Tormund, Jorah, sweet manbun and his one-eyed besty*

  343. Sean C.: Since Sam can’t marry, Little Sam has no claim either.

    ok, but can Jon, or Dany, undo his vows? Stannis had no qualms about doing it for Jon. If the Wall comes down, will there still be a Watch anyway? Uh Oh, I just thought of something – if Dany knew who Randyll and Dickon were, would she automatically claim his lands? Dumb sad handsome loyal Dickon, who’s gonna save your mother and sister now? How does that work? Maybe there will be nothing left for Sam to inherit anyway, but I don’t want to see his mother and sister out in the pasture. They were decent.

  344. Arthur,

    There have been a few references to Dany’s heart. Could be nothing, could be foreshadowing. I for one hope it’s not literal like the prophecy of that Nissa women.

  345. Dumbass Arya. Seriously, she’s there 10 minutes and still thinks the worst of Sansa? Go back to Bravos if you aren’t going to help

  346. Connor:
    Next episode looks better than Hardhome…..

    Episode 6 preview:

    Haven’t seen the preview, but better then Hardhome?!

  347. Ravyn,

    My ONLY real criticism is basically this. Oh to have had just one more 50 minute episode to smooth things over a little more. They are moving the plot very quickly but we have to accept that they are glossing over some things.

    We aren’t privy to why they couldnt have done 8 episodes but it seems like they are focusing on the large points.

    Obviously Tyrion learns that Jamie lived but we didnt see it on camera. The point is that he found a way to meet. Yes it was rushed but its not the end of the world.

    Bronn and Jamie swimming away without getting caught sure, but again whatever. The little things aren’t the point.

    At the Battle of the Blackwater Bronn shot that arrow a damn long way to hit the floating wildfire ship. The show hasnt been without some stretches from the beginning….

  348. Stu525,

    Thanks for this summary. Yes, it’s gobsmacking huge! We’ve suspected it all along and I’m so happy it’s been finally confirmed.

  349. RG: Raising both hands… For years now

    Yes, for years for sure “I can be your family.” “No, you’d be my lady.” But he’ll have his hands full with this version of Arya.

  350. QueenofThrones,

    When you google ‘order of succession’, apparently the elder son of the elder son of the King has a stronger claim that the second or third son of the King. Since Reaghar is the Mad King elder son, his son (Jon) has a stronger claim than Viserys or Daenarys. Moreover, Daenarys being a woman, Jon claims is even stronger just because of that.

  351. RG:
    Pigeon,

    I love Jorah Dany chemistry. He is just…sigh
    Me too Jonah lol
    Also-I’ve been waiting for years for Gendry and Arya to get together again but no-we get Gendry and Jon!
    So okay.
    Go JONAH!! And/OR JENDRY!!
    🙂

    Right??? 😃

  352. Everett: “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.”
    Arthur dayne and Mance Rayder.

    Thank you for the answer! You are right. But damn, BOTH of them died. I’m almost sorry I asked. I knew there was something dark attached to those words.

  353. Sunfyre: I know some won’t like it but I love that Littlefinger’s (final?) effort at manipulation isn’t between different Houses but between and among the Stark’s themselves. It’s using his talents as a character to lay bare the conflicts within the Stark family. The tension that arises from Jon, a “bastard”, being named KITN vs. Sansa. The longstanding sisterly rivalry between Arya and Sansa. The loyalty and affection of Arya for Jon and vice-versa.

    That’s a wonderful take on the situation. I hadn’t thought of that.

  354. I think D&D could’ve and would’ve written Eastwatch better than Dave Hill and

    I am looking forward to next Sunday’s episode written by D&D and directed Alan Taylor

  355. Thronetender: Yes, for years for sure “I can be your family.” “No, you’d be my lady.”But he’ll have his hands full with this version of Arya.

    My first thought too-however-this version of Gendry is more…intense? He’s chomping at the bit to fight-reminding me so much more of Robert than he used to. Clearly that many years of rowing changes a man.
    *still shipping and planning the future romantic assassin adventures of Arya and Gendry* lol

  356. Everett,

    I was fine with the Missandei / Greyworm scene. They had plenty of time to give Gendry a better, more plausible reentrance to the show. It’s more what they did with the time rather than having enough of it.

  357. If the dragons are as in tune with their Mother as we are all led to believe, and if Drogon has given Jon a passing grade on the sniff test, what’s to say that Drogon didn’t let Rhaegal know that Jon is cool… and OH! Jon’s in trouble! I’ll stay here with Mom, you run up to Eastwatch, melt some Ice Wights (at the last minute, while the Magnificent Seven are running for their lives), pick him, Gendry, the Hound, and let’s say Tormund up (along with a twitching but still “active” Ice Wight), and get them the heck out of Dodge?

    We all know that they are heading up to a dangerous battle next week, and we all know (or hope) that at least one of the living survives… but what is the extraction plan? They are sitting ducks for the NK, if they don’t have alternative transportation arranged for after the battle. The Knights of the Vale aren’t going to be joining them this time.

  358. Elnauze,

    Yes, Jon’s claim is stronger than Dany’s. However, Dany has the required force/weapons (dragons) to take the throne (remember, someone else is sitting there now). All Jon has, for now, is a claim. To take the throne, he’ll need to overthrow the one sitting on it. If he wants that, he’ll likely need Dany and her army. Butt also, all these may not matter now to Jon as all he’ll want is to save the realm from the NK.

  359. firstone:
    I think D&D could’ve and would’ve written Eastwatch better than Dave Hill and

    I am looking forward to next Sunday’s episode written by D&D and directed Alan Taylor

    If you think they didnt review, edit and approve his script I dont know what to say.

  360. RG:
    Pigeon,

    The only people I think can’t die in that group for story purpose is Jon, Gendry and the Hound.
    I hate even saying that, and this might be the first week I’m not impatient for next Sunday.
    *cuddles Tormund, Jorah, sweet manbun and his one-eyed besty*

    *sticks fingers in ears* LALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOUUUUUUU!!!!!! 😜

  361. It was sad to see the Tarlys go in such ignominous fashion. Shades of the Mad King there. I kind of felt very Tyrionesque at that moment. We all know that Randyll was a real SOB but Dickon was cool. Randyll was a Westerosi lord and Horn Hill was quite a spiffy pad. Oh well…

    Nice to see Bronn and Jaime pop out of the lake. I’d forgotten how big it was then flashed back to when Drogon was in his pre-Bron approach in last weeks episode.
    No idea how Jaime got back to KL so fast but these are now accepted plot movers.

    The comments about Drogons size were right on when he met Jon his head was really small but as he got closer things evened out. I’m wondering about the images in Drogon’s eye. Is that some kind of Targaryan thing or just Dro’s eye colour? Definitely some recognition there on Drogon’s part.

    WELCOME BACK GENDRY!!! There are still some reunions to come Arya/Bran/Jon and Arya/Gendry. Looking forward to those!

    I don’t know what LF hopes to accomplish with a five year old letter written under extreme duress. Even Kaitlyn commented at the time in that it sounded as if Cersei wrote it. Sansa knows that it’s BS. Is it LF trying to undermine Sansa? I think a man knows nothing about noone…

    The New Brotherhood…I think that would be a great offshoot for a new series.

    Looking forward to next week….

  362. Jack Bauer 24,

    He wants Arya and Jon gone, and he wants Sansa to rule and then marry him.

    He’s turning the Northern lords against Jon and toward Sansa, and he’s turning Arya against Sansa, so that eventually Sansa will kick her out. Not that hard to deduce.

  363. Jack Bauer 24,

    He said it : “he wants to be on the Iron Throne with Sansa at his side”. And for once, I think LF was honest. Both because he has feeling for her, and because his feelings are in line with his craving.

    He obviously crave for power. He really wants to be on the Throne. But he is no warrior so he cannot become King by overthrowing King or Queen. He can only get it by marriage, i.e. by marrying a Queen. There is only three women who are in a position to be Queen by being the leader of their faction : Cersei, Sansa or Daenarys. Cersei is too mad for LF to have any interest. She would never listen to him and never marry him anyway. As for Daenarys, she could have been a possibility but Varys was quicker to become her adviser and I don’t see (he probably doesn’t see it himself) how he could find confidence and utility with Daenarys. He doesn’t have any asset she could want. His best chances are with Sansa (for once, his position his weaker that it ever was…LF has always tried to play many cards at once…and now, he seems to have only one card : Sansa… it’s not a bad one…but LF not having any plan B, he must feel very uncomfortable and vulnerable right now to have his eggs all in the same basket). His prospect with Sansa are good however. He already has huge influence over her, and the Stark are becoming very strong (Stronger than the Lannister in my opinion, but weaker than Daenarys. He probably hopes the two destroy each other). All he needs to do is 1) insure that Sansa become the QITN instead of Jon Snow and 2) force Sansa to isolate from her family so when needs friends and advices, LF is the first she could turn too. That is what he is doing and he is doing it well.

    Some may say why support Sansa? She will never beat Daenarys for the Throne. You are probably right. But LF said it also, you have to think of every possibility in your mind so that when it happen, it was among all the possibility you have considered (something like that). Even slim, Sansa still has a chance to be on the Throne. And LF has a strong chance (if he plays his cards right) to marry Sansa (the Vale army his a strong asset as well…marriage to keep such army friend to the Stark could be necessary for Sansa). So better have a slight chance to become a King with Sansa than a huge chance to become an unimportant man with Daenarys.

  364. The Jon and Drogon scene was all I’d hoped for and more when I read the spoilers. A magical bonding moment!

  365. What did Dany say to Jon just before he said ‘I wish you good fortune in the wars to come’? Right after he says, ‘If I don’t come back you won’t have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore’ (or words to that effect). I replayed it several times and couldn’t make it out.

  366. Maybe it’s just because I’m ::ahem:: a ‘woman of a certain age,’ but seeing Dany interacting with both Jorah and Jon in the same scene just confirms to me how much more attractive Iain Glen is than Kit Harington, and that only a truly mad queen couldn’t see it immediately. Not to say that Kit isn’t cute, but Iain seems so much more virile to me. Silly girl.

  367. Great episode – Characters are really coming together now. I have no problem whatsoever with the pacing of S7. The show runners are doing a good job without adding all superfluous details to push the story along which certain posters in this group are forever whinging on about!

    I liked the callbacks to previous episodes – “I wish you good fortune in the wars to come” as Ser Arthur Dayne said to young Ned Stark at the Tower of Joy. Also the callback (think it was between Gendry and Jon?) to S1Ep1 between Ned Stark and King Robert Baratheon when he arrived at Winterfell and they joked about how they each had put on weight over the years 😉

    The scene when Jon patted Drogon’s head pretty much confirmed the dragon could sense there was some Targaryen in him and probably explains why he didn’t have Jon for lunch! That also being confirmed later by Sam and Gilly finding an old document which proved that Prince Rhaegar was legally married to Lyanna Stark after his first marriage to Elia Martell was annulled. So… Jon is not a bastard and really is a Targaryen. That could be interesting when he finds that out and what Dany’s reaction to that news will be 😉

    Also interesting was to see the uneasiness now between Sansa and Arya. Sansa may be the Lady of Winterfell now, but Arya smells a rat (called Littlefinger!) and knows there is something dodgy going on with him still hanging around Winterfell. Looks like LF is playing one Stark girl against the other? I wouldn’t be surprised if Arya adds him to her kill list and ‘takes him out’ before S7 ends!

    Not so much action with Jon and company going north of the wall from Eastwatch to capture a wight. However looks like he’ll be in good company along with Tormund, The Hound, Beric Dondarian and Thoros of Myr, Jorah, Gendry and Davos. So I guess all that WW action will be in the final 2 episodes.

    Roll on next Sunday 😀

  368. Sam,

    I totally agree Sam. Jon doesn’t care and won’t try to overthrow Daenarys. He wouldn’t be able anyway. And I’m 100% sure they will marry so who has the stronger army won’t matter then (perhaps this will make them marry…to prevent the question from rising in the first place).

    But it will affect their thinking. Who should lead the army, who should take the decisions. It add a layer of complexicity and akwardness in their future collaboration the same way being two Kings/Queen bring some akwardness right now in their relation.

  369. RG: Did you notice the nod to first episode w/ Robert and Ned when Jon and Gendry meet?
    “You’ve gotten fat”
    Ned eyes the king as if to say “Look who’s talking”
    “You’re not as big”
    “You’re not as tall” (its true, he’s really not)

    Yeah, I loved that callback! I wonder what will become of this budding friendship when they find out that Rhaegar, whom Robert passionately hated, is actually Jon’s Dad. Hopefully they will already have bonded by then.

  370. Firannion:
    Maybe it’s just because I’m ::ahem:: a ‘woman of a certain age,’ but seeing Dany interacting with both Jorah and Jon in the same scene just confirms to me how much more attractive Iain Glen is than Kit Harington, and that only a truly mad queen couldn’t see it immediately. Not to say that Kit isn’t cute, but Iain seems so much more virile to me. Silly girl.

    This woman of closer to Kit’s age agrees with you in spades! Kit is a lovely looking guy, but I’ve always preferred older men, and when you get one looking and sounding like Iain….dang. Of course in the beginning, he was an advisor/friend to Dany, no position for her to really think towards him ‘that way’ since she was so young and married to Jason M….er…Khal Drogo…..and with familiarity appears to come blinders. She does love him of course (I had a brief moment of disbelief/panic/wonder where I thought she was going to kiss him) 🤤

  371. I’m starting to wonder if Cersei will go out like Talisa. Pregnancy has not generally been a sign of good fortune on this show.

  372. Firannion:
    What did Dany say to Jon just before he said ‘I wish you good fortune in the wars to come’?Right after he says, ‘If I don’t come back you won’t have Richard Nixon to kick around anymore’ (or words to that effect). I replayed it several times and couldn’t make it out.

    Jon: If i don’t return at least you won’t have to deal with the King in the North anymore.

    Dany: I’ve grown used to him.

  373. RhaeTarg:
    Firannion,

    He said she wouldn’t have to deal with the King in the North anymore.

    I heard what he said (was just making a joke about Nixon’s famous Checkers speech). It was what she said that I couldn’t understand.

  374. I think Cersei has cancer, and is not pregnant. I think she is going to die, and I think there is nothing she’d like better than being the Queen of the Undead. So, when Jon brings that walker to Kings Landing, I shudder to think of the consequences. He’s just helping them get South faster than they could on their own. I have a really bad feeling about this.

  375. I found that a middling episode with some good moments, my least favourite of S7. Good moments:
    o Jon petting Drogon was literally awe-some for us, Dany & Jon. Romance incoming!
    o Gilly (!) discovering that Rhaegar annulled the Elia marriage to wed Lyanna. This confirmed the old fan theory Jon is legitimate heir to the IT.
    o Hound and crew joining Jon and crew plus Tormund and crew. Given time between terrors next week, the quips will fly.
    Decent moments:
    o Tarly execution. Dany did the necessary; it worked. Now Sam will be Lord Tarly!
    o Tyrion/Jaime meeting. Nice set-up but lacked tension. Dinklage excelled.
    o Davos & Gendry vs Gold Cloaks. Good reunion but how could Gendry drop his whole career to go adventuring? Oh snap! He wants to be a lord. So much for nice Gendry.
    o Veteran skulduggery beat rookie skulduggery. Arya can be played… by the Master.
    o Arya v Sansa, round 4. As in KIngs Landing in S1, the match result was nil-nil.
    Disappointing moments:
    o Jon was less moved hearing Arya and Bran were alive than 3ER Bran would be.
    o Jorah return was only slightly more emotional.
    o Tyrion/Varys chat was rote and un-witty.
    o Sam Citadel scenes other than with Gilly. I’ll miss Jim Broadbent.
    o Kings Landing, Cersei, and Jaime (except above scene)
    o Bran’s raven reconnaissance flock chilled…until it didn’t. No spying on the NK.
    o The lords’ rote revolt and Sansa wanting but rejecting QitN. Set up A v S scene.
    o Jamie & Bronn surviving was fine, but avoiding capture was implausible.
    Overall:
    Set-up S7E6. Dialogue, acting, plot, and direction were muted. IMO 7.0 out of 10.

    RBloodworth:

    It’s the note that Sansa wrote to Robb at Cersei’s urging in Season 1 asking him to come to King’s Landing and bend the knee to Joffrey.Littlefinger is counting on that to further turn Arya against Sansa, although she’d have to be a complete idiot to think that she’d write something like that out of her own free will.

    Idiocy not required! Robb himself didn’t see through the message until Luwin and Cat explained that Sansa must have written it under duress. Arya knows only that S1 Sansa sided totally with Cersei, even standing beside Cersei on the platform when Joffrey surprise-killed Ned. Being on the lam for weeks, Arya had no idea of Sansa’s constraints once Ned was betrayed. No wonder she’s so suspicious of Sansa. What 15-16YO even has the concept of betrayal under duress? Besides, she always escaped and so has never had to forswear herself because she was prisoner.

  376. Arya is not having even a hint of threat towards Jon’s position. I love how she hasn’t lost any love for him and is loyal. However, it’s leading me to speculate on where this might lead to in S8. If Arya perceives Dany as a threat….

  377. Ginevra:
    This is Gendry.

    He’ll do.

    I read somewhere that other cast members were saying that Peter Dinklage got the funniest line out of this season’s scripts, so I’ve been waiting for it to come along. I wonder if that was it. It was amusing, but not on a level with Tyrion dialogue from the early seasons.

  378. cuddlycrow,

    Yes, she is so damaged, it’s almost painful to see how stuck she is. She was such a spirited child, not mean or malicious, and now she is older but not wiser, just deadlier.

  379. Theon can now talk to Queen Daenerys about rescuing Yara now that the war is on hold.

    Drogon sure recovered from the huge arrow quickly. No poison on that arrow

  380. I’m not really liking Gendry’s buzz cut. I guess it’s practical because a smith sweats a lot, but he looked handsomer with longer hair.

  381. ygritte,

    You’re right there has been.

    All I know is this show is ending to fast and I have a feeling the grand finale is going to make all our living rooms weep like crazy. Think about it Dany, Jon, Drogon, Ghost and many others. All these characters we have been reading about and watching on TV for over seven years are going to be killed horribly, like that last child of the forest in that ‘The Door’ episode, in order to save the seven kingdoms.

    Jon, who was spit on and even murdered, who has been rejected by the seven kingdoms his whole life, will give his life to save it.

    Dany, her whole life has been fueled with the motivation to return to the seven kingdoms, her home, and take back what was stolen from her and her family.

    Jon will give his life to save the entire kingdom who rejected him.
    Dany, finally getting there, will also give her life to save a kingdom she really never known and whom mostly want to see her dead.

    It is sooo GRRM-like.

  382. Pigeon,

    Jorah’s voice is what made me fall in love with him. “In the shadow lands beyond Asshai” and the way he says “khaleesi” *shivers*
    Tell me about the shadow lands, Jorah. Keep talking.

    I am team Jon in most things though-so…

    Plus Dany chose Daario over Jorah already. He might have been friendzoned for too long.
    On the other hand the man came back from greyscale because she told him to. That has to mean something, right?

  383. These small details always bubble up…So Jon *did* think Bran was dead after all? And please tell me Jon brought some dragon glass to Eastwatch. No one there has dragonsteel but Jon.

    It felt a little troll-y to call this episode Eastwatch. Especially after BwoB has been sitting for so long a time and much of the episode was focused elswhere.

    Cersei’s pregnancy felt a bit much. Maybe it was the execution not the writing but I doubt this matters much.

    I am not sure what Sam’s time at the Citadel accomplished. Especially since Gilly was so rudely interrupted.

    Disappointed no one said “Tarly” on Dragonstone. Looking at you Jorah.

  384. DireWolfHeart: Caught it on rewatch: Joe Dempsie is part of the main cast now

    I know there are a lot of posters on here who know the stats of qualification for Emmys – how many episodes can a character appear in before they are no longer eligible for “Best Guest” appearance. I know not for this year, but next year. So far Dame Diana takes it for me, but I must grudgingly admit that old Randyll was prety convincing, and I loved Archmaester Ebrose – he’d be my second vote. But he was in 5 episodes. What’s the limit?

    *************************************
    On a different note, after 3 straight viewings, here’s my take on the Jon, Dany, Jorah triangle. I loved the warmth and happiness between Dany and Jorah at their reunion, she hugged him, he looked back at her as he was pushing the boat into the water; it was heartwarming to the nth degree. But, he, Jorah, was also watching the interactions between Jon and Dany. I think he was trying to make Jon jealous – not for his personal purposes, but because he approves of the match between Jon and Dany and wanted to get Jon moving. Jorah is no fool, he adores Dany, but knows he will always be in friend zone. Watch Jon’s reactions when Jorah and Dany are together. To me, it looked like jealousy, or at the very least, extreme discomfort.

    When your friend greets another obviously beloved old friend, usually you’d be happy for both of them; you’d smile in happiness at their happiness in the reunion (at least that’s how I’d react) But Jon looks dismayed, maybe both at wondering what the relationship is and possibly dismayed that his own reaction is … jealousy.

    Or, I’m totally off the mark, and the suave old boy intends to make a play as soon as he gets back from his jaunt up north.

  385. I’m glad that they are showing that Arya also has her faults. Faults which might be strengths in different circumstances.

    She is exceedingly loyal to Jon, which is wonderful. But she doesn’t understand what a perilous situation they are in politically right now. Sansa does. Arya may be a ninja assassin, and she may have learned to detect lies, but she doesn’t seem to have a subtle bone in her body when it comes to shifting political power and alliances. This is the arean that Sansa is more adept at. She knows she has to appease the lords to some extent. She knows she needs the Vale army and so has to at least hear out Royce and not just cut off heads at the slightest expression of disgruntlement.

    Arya has become too cocky with her ideas of being judge, jury and executioner. Her moral compass is skewed. We still root for her because she’s a Stark, she’s suffered, she’s now a bad ass assassin and wants to avenge her family but her viewpoint is also a bit fucked up. When she killed Walder Frey I did cheer her on to some extent, but baking his sons in a pie and the poisoning of all the Frey men was overkill. I get it, she’s vengeance personified. But that doesn’t make her completely justified in murdering dozens of people because she feels wronged or upset.

    I loved Arya’s fight with Brienne, but that cocky attitude she displayed continued in how she handled Littlefinger. She’s underestimated him. It might not end well.

    I’m feeling strange in that I see more reason to side-eye Arya than Dany. I know the showrunners want us to worry Dany is turning into her father, but it seems like such a lot of huff and puff. A shameless audience manipulation. Dany will ultimately support Jon and come through when/if he needs her. Jon may have more claim than Dany to the Iron Throne, but he really has no desire to rule and the whole issue is fast becoming moot with the long night coming. It’s so strange to see fan still wanting to insist this or that character as the best claim (very tribal/sport team), when the show itself is saying “Guys, you need to STOP obsessing over the stupid throne and band together to fight the real war to come.”

    The only true Mad Queen of this story is going to be Cersei. I’m willing to bet on that. Either the pregnancy is fake or she’s gonna lose it sometime in the future and become even more unhinged and selfish.

  386. thisgirlhasnoname,
    No, no, no, it seems like everyone is forgetting, as of NOW, before we find out about Jon’s true parentage on the show, Dany is the rightful heir to the throne, so anyone who fights against her is committing treason, which in most cases is punishable by death. She did nothing wrong by killing people who had essentially an open rebellion against her and still do after the battle was over. Even Jon said something similar when Sansa was trying to convince him to let other families takeover the Karstarks and Umber castles, he said they committed treason and died on the battlefield, but there was no reason to punish their kids for their parents mistakes.

  387. Arthur,

    Having never read anything by Martin I have no idea what his take on “bittersweet” actually is but I’m hoping it aligns with something like “I will spare the lives of the 5 most loved characters but the dragons and direwolves will die and the beautiful iron throne demolished sorry guys.” lol

  388. Demon Monkey,

    Definitely agree, one of the themes of the first several seasons was that the king isn’t solely determined by lineage and by who has the best claim. It’s determined by who has the ability to seize power.

    So Jon Snow has a more legitimate claim than Dany does, I can’t see that changing her mind. The easy solution though is that they just get married and that would resolve the dispute.

  389. ACME,

    Sam hated his brother and father cuz they were pricks to him, they are the reason he took off and joined the Nights Watch in the first place, to get away from them. Im pretty sure he will give zero F***s that they are dead, he might even be relieved cuz he will be the new head of the house when he likely gets released of his vows since soon, the Nights Watch wont be needed as the kingdom will be fighting the White Walkers, and if they manage to kill the Knight King, they wont need the Nights Watch anymore either.

  390. Succubint: Are you forgetting that the Tarly’s were Olenna Tyrell’s bannermen? They were sworn to protect and support her causes and yet they betrayed their oaths and sided with the Cersei (who just recently had blown up a Sept full of worshippers, the High Septon and 3 of the most important Tyrells – Mace, Loras and Queen Margaery). This led to Olenna’s execution by poison and the deaths of countless Highgarden people. Cersei had murdered Olenna’s kinsmen and the Tarly’s – instead of helping Olenna avenge those deaths, became oathbreakers.

    Dany was well within her rights as sworn ally of Olenna to avenge her house and execute the traitors for their treasonous acts. And yet she still gave them a choice, a way out to save face and be pardoned for their crimes (crimes which even Jon believed were heinous and punishable by death btw).

    That is a good point, except for one thing: the Tyrells were liege lords of the Reach, not independent like, say, the Iron Islands. The Reach was one of the Seven Kingdoms under whomever sat on the Iron Throne.

    I can’t fault Olenna for “betraying” Queen Cercei Lannister given that she had killed her kids, but that did leave the bannermen of the Reach in a bit of a quandry. One could make the argument that Olenna’s bannermen were not under any obligation to follow House Tyrell in a rebellion against the Throne, since they were in effect also pledged to the throne.

    To House Tyrell that could be seen as a betrayal (like the Starks saw those in the North who joined the Boltons as traitors), but at least to me that betrayal doesn’t extend to Danaerys. Maybe enough to throw them in a dungeon, but fry them on the spot? A little extreme.

    Put another way: If the Night King struck a deal with Jon to Bend the Knee (unlikely I know lol), do the other northern houses have to follow, or else become traitors to the Night King?

  391. 607 comments… I can’t even – looks like skimming theses comments will be almost as fun as watching the show

  392. Jenny:
    Okay but Gilly has the scoop.I don’t want anyone stealing her thunder.Like she discovered it before Bran lmao.

    Inspector Gilly!!!

  393. I’m going to watch the episode in a bit, but I watched the preview for next episode and it’s lit.

    Bless you Inspector Gilly for confirming the no 1 theory I believe in <3

  394. Ginevra: We didn’t see the gates shut, so I think we have a dozen nameless wildlings following after the big six.

    They’re right behind. You can see them in the background, a whole lot of them. Just don’t focus on the main characters and look behind the hound there’s a whole bunch of others.

  395. I wish people would stop talking about Jon & Daenerys marrying. She’s his Aunt! That’s just wrong. I mean, not Cersei & Jamie wrong, but wrong nevertheless. One of them isn’t going to survive to the end anyway, and being he’s the most popular of the two, my money is on Jon Snow. GRRM is like that.

  396. thurg00d420: Dany is the rightful heir to the throne, so anyone who fights against her is committing treason,

    If you buy into the “rightful heir” business then you’re right. But before the seven kingdoms united under the Targaryans, there were independent houses. They only swore fealty because they were conquered.

    Robert Baratheon, for better or worse, conquered them. So maybe the Tarlys really betrayed Gendry. Because as far as we know maybe Robert issued a secret decree before he died that all his kids were legitimate and some Maester will show up with that document someday. Not going to happen of course but it goes to the lineage stuff.

    Cercei, for worse for sure, “conquered” Robert Baratheon and put her kids with Jaime on the throne. Maybe this bun in the oven is the rightful heir.

    My point is that monarchies – even ion Westeros – have historically been as much a matter of *might makes right* as simple birthing lineage. So while Dany might see herself as the rightful heir, that doesn’t make it okay for her to run around burning lords because they won’t bend the knee 10 minutes after meeting her out of loyalty to a family they’ve recognized as their monarch-by-proxy for years.

  397. Miss Darkside,

    I’m with ya. Before the end Dany’s going to lose both Jorah and Jon, look around and spot Gendry and say, “hmm, that lad has nice arms.” :))

  398. Tycho Nestoris,

    There’s not enough time for Sam to earn his links, but in essence we can have him there for long enough to get his hands on books that are of relevancy

  399. Was King Robert short at all? Gendry was a little shorter than I had hoped but im sure hes strong as hell so whatever.

  400. thisgirlhasnoname,

    In her mind, she has every right to do so, just re-watch the encounter when Jon and Dany first met, she makes a strong argument about swearing allegiance, “forever.” Realistically, it doesnt matter what went on before her family took over, those families still bent the knee and promised their allegiance, which is why the usurper, Robert, wanted every Targarian dead. If they were all dead, then yes, the original oath would die off with the Targarian family.

  401. Bhall,

    Then why fight it? As an aside, Martin as an atheist seems to be pointing out that it is better to die and be truly dead forever (Jon killed natural way and experience nothing) than his interpretation of life after death, to be raised back to life only to be a zombie, ie go to heaven/hell and exist as a spirit, alive basically to be at the whim of a deity. I think the wights represent that form of life he feels religious are ok with.

  402. thisgirlhasnoname,

    If *might makes right* then those lords should be bending the knee to the superior force that just defeated them in battle. They had a choice to be forgiven by submitting and they chose to die. It’s on them. They are turncoats for breaking oaths with House Tyrell and betraying them in a battle which destroyed that house. It’s reason enough to punish them if they won’t now surrender and accept Dany as the victor.

  403. Mary:
    I think Cersei has cancer, and is not pregnant.I think she is going to die, and I think there is nothing she’d like better than being the Queen of the Undead.So, when Jon brings that walker to Kings Landing, I shudder to think of the consequences.He’s just helping them get South faster than they could on their own.I have a really bad feeling about this.

    That’s an interesting theory, but wights aren’t like contagious diseases. There has to be a White Walker (an Other) there to animate the dead or else the dead or just … dead.

  404. Firannion: I read somewhere that other cast members were saying that Peter Dinklage got the funniest line out of this season’s scripts, so I’ve been waiting for it to come along. I wonder if that was it. It was amusing, but not on a level with Tyrion dialogue from the early seasons.

    Surely not! I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t the line of the season.

  405. Dee Stark,

    Hi Dee, in the books Rhaegar believed he needed three children – the infamous three heads of the dragon and one would be the prince who was promised. Ellaria could no longer have children and reading between the lines Rhaegar fell in love with Lyanna. In the books Dany has a vision in the house of the undying (I think) that shows Rhaegar describing his child as the prince who was promised and states “for his is the song of ice and fire” which is the title of the book series.

    By the way do you still think Varys and Tyrion won’t switch to Jon? (Genuinely not a spoiler, I don’t know what happens).

  406. Pigeon:
    Um….random thought – where’d Theon go?

    To save his sister!!!! Yes, I know that’s yet another thing happening offscreen, but his last line was that he wanted to see the queen about getting her help to save his sister. I’m sure they’ll show that in a previously-on, and then show Theon on a ship to Euron, on a mission to save Yara. I’m okay with some things happening offscreen as long as they are somewhat setup.

  407. thurg00d420:
    thisgirlhasnoname,
    No, no, no, it seems like everyone is forgetting, as of NOW, before we find out about Jon’s true parentage on the show, Dany is the rightful heir to the throne, so anyone who fights against her is committing treason, which in most cases is punishable by death. She did nothing wrong by killing people who had essentially an open rebellion against her and still do after the battle was over. Even Jon said something similar when Sansa was trying to convince him to let other families takeover the Karstarks and Umber castles, he said they committed treason and died on the battlefield, but there was no reason to punish their kids for their parents mistakes.

    Dany would only be the “rightful heir” to the Seven Kingdoms because Aegon the Conqueror conquered the Seven Kingdoms, winning himself and his heirs the right to his Iron Throne and kingdoms. But another conqueror came after him and conquered his Seven Kingdoms away from the Targaryens, which is the rightful way to take away a kingdom – the same way the Targaryens took away the kingdoms from the King in the North, the King of the Vale, the King of the Reach, and so on.

  408. thisgirlhasnoname: That is a good point, except for one thing: the Tyrells were liege lords of the Reach, not independent like, say, the Iron Islands. The Reach was one of the Seven Kingdoms under whomever sat on the Iron Throne.

    I can’t fault Olenna for “betraying” Queen Cercei Lannister given that she had killed her kids, but that did leave the bannermen of the Reach in a bit of a quandry. One could make the argument that Olenna’s bannermen were not under any obligation to follow House Tyrell in a rebellion against the Throne, since they were in effect also pledged to the throne.

    To House Tyrell that could be seen as a betrayal (like the Starks saw those in the North who joined the Boltons as traitors), but at least to me that betrayal doesn’t extend to Danaerys. Maybe enough to throw them in a dungeon, but fry them on the spot? A little extreme.

    Put another way: If the Night King struck a deal with Jon to Bend the Knee (unlikely I know lol), do the other northern houses have to follow, or else become traitors to the Night King?

    I love that D&D beg the audience to decide for themselves whether this move by Dany was sane or insane; justified or unjustified. I don’t believe Dany is insane, but I also don’t believe Dany is justified.

    Dany loves to kill. She loves the fire. She loves the blood. She loves the power. She is not a merciful queen. She is a merciless motherfucker. Fire and blood, bitches! Fire and blood.

    Of course, I’m sure there are many who will be outraged that I thought burning Dickon alive was merciless, but yeah. I do.

  409. thurg00d420:
    thisgirlhasnoname,

    In her mind, she has every right to do so, just re-watch the encounter when Jon and Dany first met, she makes a strong argument about swearing allegiance, “forever.” Realistically, it doesnt matter what went on before her family took over, those families still bent the knee and promised their allegiance, which is why the usurper, Robert, wanted every Targarian dead. If they were all dead, then yes, the original oath would die off with the Targarian family.

    Yes, I would wholeheartedly agree that Dany fully believes herself entitled to the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms. She did make an awesome argument about Jon’s forefather promising fealty for himself and his heirs in perpetuity. But then Jon counters with an equally brilliant argument that, if he doesn’t hold her accountable for the sins of her father for burning his grandfather alive, then she can’t hold him accountable to the promises of his forefather.

  410. Jon Snowed:
    Dee Stark,

    By the way do you still think Varys and Tyrion won’t switch to Jon? (Genuinely not a spoiler, I don’t know what happens).

    I’m thinking that the previews to this episode and the episode itself have set Tyrion up to leave Dany. Someone asked me, and go where? They argued he wouldn’t go to his sister, and of course, that is true. But during this episode, I had thought, he could go off with Jon! So yes, that is being setup. I’d love to see Tyrion go off with Jon. Varys might, too.

  411. Algo Darron,

    Sadly I’m expecting very heavy casualties next week. Jon has the most plot armour on the show right now and in my opinion is the main protagonist. I genuinely fear for the others though Beric and Thoros are bit part characters and you would assume very likely to die. Gendry has only just returned and seems cool but again I think he’s doomed. Jorah too may well go although he seems to have as many lives as cats I think this is his likely end, tragically serving Danny.

    Tormund and the Hound are two of my favourites but I have a horrible feeling that Tormund will die too. The only one I think may make it is the Hound but how given we see an injured Jon riding away on a horse in the trailer you have to presume the others are all dead at that point.

  412. Succubint: Are you forgetting that the Tarly’s were Olenna Tyrell’s bannermen? They were sworn to protect and support her causes and yet they betrayed their oaths and sided with the Cersei (who just recently had blown up a Sept full of worshippers, the High Septon and 3 of the most important Tyrells – Mace, Loras and Queen Margaery). This led to Olenna’s execution by poison and the deaths of countless Highgarden people. Cersei had murdered Olenna’s kinsmen and the Tarly’s – instead of helping Olenna avenge those deaths, became oathbreakers.
    Dany was well within her rights as sworn ally of Olenna to avenge her house and execute the traitors for their treasonous acts. And yet she still gave them a choice, a way out to save face and be pardoned for their crimes (crimes which even Jon believed were heinous and punishable by death btw).

    YES 200% THIS

    Anything Daenyrus does… when she does it, is wrong.. but when others do it… is fine.

    I think she did the right thing. She gave them a choice. And after everything that has happened, and everything that was done.. to the Tyrells, the Reach.. ummm yeah. Good choice, burn the traitors!

  413. I must be the only GOT fan on earth who hates the “Jon is a Targaryen” thing, not because of Jon, he is great, but because of two factors, I hate his parents and i think it would be SO cheap.

    So you are telling me that that asshole, abandoned his dutiful wife and his OWN children to marry another women, while the whole country was at WAR and his own family was facing extinction? GOD, I LOATHE HIM. I am glad he died.

    Lyanna was also stupid too, she went with a married man, resulting in her own family death, didn’t she write to her family? “Hey dad and brother, I am in love with Rhaegar and I want to marry him” NO, of course not, she was SO dumb, aggg, I am glad she died.

    I like Jon, he is cool, but I don’t want him to be king at the end, even thought it’s obvious he will sit on the iron throne When the war is over (otherwise we would have never spent that much time learning about his lineage), having the white straight male heterosexual character ending as the savior, Azor Ahai, a lost targaryen….really makes me cringe, I would love Daenerys to be queen instead of Jon (because I find her to be a thousand times more interesting than him) but is not gonna happen. 😔

  414. Arya/SansaLoved Arya’s loyalty to Jon! Arya’s abilities have been a bit over-the-top in the past but we actually did see her honing observation and lie-sensing skills at Bravos. Sansa supported Jon as weakly as she could get away with at this point.

  415. Mary:
    About the Tarly deaths – doesn’t that make Sam the head of the Tarlys?

    I think the writers could plausibly go either direction.

    In the past, Sam has forsworn any place in the Tarly succession to his father, taken an oath to the Night’s Watch to hold no lands or titles, and joined the apolitical maesters in Oldtown. I don’t know if being sent to the Citadel gets him out of his vow to the Night’s Watch, but overall that’s a lot of “No castle for you!” in one lifetime.

    Regardless, with the Westerosi focus on the male line, the last surviving male son of Randyll Tarly could probably drop in at Horn Hill and set up shop if the writers wanted it that way.

  416. Miss Darkside,

    I think they will marry and one will die. The only question for me is which one is The Prince(ss) That Was Promised = Azor Ahai Reborn, wielder of the sword Lightbringer, required to defeat the NK, and which one is Nissa Nissa, whose heart is required to forge it.

    The obvious answer is that Jon = AAR; Dany = NN and should be the one to die, but, yes, GRRM is like that and could reverse the roles.

  417. Miss Darkside,

    Without bias I’d argue Jon is a lot more likely to survive the series than Dany. At this moment in time he’s also the most likely to be stuck on the Iron throne even if he doesn’t want it the people will back him unlike the other contenders (at least at this moment).

    I expect Dany to go North and never return, no way she is happy to realise Jon is the rightful heir to the throne and little chance she ends up ruling either in my opinion.

  418. thisgirlhasnoname,

    Have to admit I was hoping Drogon would torch him and Jon would remain standing, bare naked. A girl has dreams.

    Hee, I thought that as well! And when it didn’t, I was hoping that Dany would tell him to climb up and join her (now that would give new meaning to the Mile High Club 🙂 )

    BTW I need a link that would summarize the Stark and Targaryan family tree. I don’t want something like the one in the back of the books. But my DH had a gap of several seasons between 3-7; he binge watched them this summer, but is getting confused between who is who. I could use some sort of cheat sheet to give him. Any ideas?

  419. Daniel U,

    Tyrion then, without any evidence, goes beyond hoping that Jaime survived and somehow retreated back to Kings Landing without the Dothraki catching he or Bronn on foot, but KNOWS Jaime survived and is back in Kings Landing safe and sound, plus that Bronn is around Kings Landing to be a liaison.

    Good question – at first I thought Dany would have seen that rescue, but maybe not..As far as the time sequence – nothing happens at the same time here, esp now with the seaons being cut short. Just go with the flow and remember this is a fantasy show!

  420. Golden hand the sister fooker:
    weirwoodtreehugger,

    He has no right to rule anything as the Baratheon’s crushed the Targaryen dynasty and took charge.

    People take control in this world depending on the power and resources they have, not birthright.

    Yes, but they become politically legitimate through birthright. Convincing the people that you are the legit king via birthright, as the god(s) intended, is a powerful tool to use in gaining power. (Why the fuck do you think the ENTIRE show started with a secret about birthright?)

    Come on, now!

  421. One of my favorite smaller moments in this thoroughly excellent episode, both initially and upon rewatch, is Gendry meeting Jon. I love how he strides boldly into the cave and, against Davos’s counsel, declares that he’s the son of Robert Baratheon. Gendry’s always been a humble lad, but after believing that he was a mistake his entire life learning that he is the son of the former king has clearly instilled a belief that he was destined for a greater purpose, if not necessarily power. Jon can relate. It was great to see the two of them quickly bonding of their (presumed) bastard status and reminiscing about (presumed) fathers, Robert and Ned, were best friends who “fought together and won”.

    That interaction would have been incredibly powerful for even if there were no deeper layers to unpack. But of course, the fact that Jon is actually Rhaegar Targaryen’s son, that their fathers were actually enemies who fought against one another rather than together, and Gendry’s father killed Jon’s father using a warhammer very similar to the one Jon now wields … it’s ironic, but absolutely fascinating, and powerful in its own right. Jon and Gendry believe one thing. The audience knows the truth. But it works on every level. The son of Robert Baratheon and Rhaegar Targaryen are now friends and brothers-in-arms. The world can sometimes bring the strangest people together.

    I do wish that Gendry had mentioned Arya to Jon. They’d have some stories to share. But this was only their initial meeting, and they are now going beyond the Wall together. There will be time for such conversations … and if they both survive, perhaps they’ll both reunite with Arya at the same time when they return to Winterfell.

  422. Alvaricomg,

    I doubt either of the two will live to sit the Iron throne.

    Dany’s vision in the HotU is just foreboding. She is fingertips away from the throne but leaves it and goes North to face her destiny. There, she reunites with Drogo and their son ie death.

    Jon is basically a firewight. Champion of R’hllor whose destiny is probably to die taking down the Night’s King.

  423. “Like father would have” – Cersei

    Red Wedding attempt at the armistance meeting foreshadowed

  424. Succubint,

    Arya, with Walter Fryes face, said that all those men were a part of the red wedding. Those men she poisoned cheered at the mention of the murder of her brother and mother. They were not innocent bystanders, they took part in locking the doors, beheading Robb and putting his direwolfs head on his body.
    Arya has clear reason as to who she kills and tries not to kill others as collateral damage – ie Lannister soldiers, Freys wife.

  425. The Molehill that Rides:
    Who else got a ‘Dirty Dozen’ vibe as Jon, Tormund, Gendry, Jorah, Beric, Thoros and The Hound march out beyond The Wall?

    I got a definite “Avengers Assemble” vibe. Westeros has it’s very own superteam!

  426. Elnauze:
    Sam,

    I totally agree Sam. Jon doesn’t care and won’t try to overthrow Daenarys. He wouldn’t be able anyway. And I’m 100% sure they will marry so who has the stronger army won’t matter then (perhaps this will make them marry…to prevent the question from rising in the first place).

    But it will affect their thinking. Who should lead the army, who should take the decisions. It add a layer of complexicity and akwardness in their future collaboration the same way being two Kings/Queen bring some akwardness right now in their relation.

    They’ll just be a new modern couple sharing responsibilities. And dragons😉

  427. Ghost's Lunch,

    Unless Gendry rowed to Qohor before he went back to Fleabottom, him knowing how to smith Valyrian steel is unlikely. In the books, the rumors were that only a few smiths in Qohor still knew the secrets and incantations to making it. I don’t think that has ever been mentioned in the show though, so they might try to invent some way for him to know or learn it.

  428. not sure if this was mentioned, but i was very annoyed with arya, she is not a very good spy, as it seemed she was hiding in plain sight, which, if she was going to do, why not wear a face? also, i felt last week that sansa was nervous she may be on arya’s kill list, now i think sansa may be even more worrried

  429. QueenofThrones:
    UnfortunTely, my reaction to this episode was:

    Dany kills DICKON UGHHHH

    Jaime escapes UGHHHH

    Jorah and Gendry back only to go and die UGHHH

    Sansa vs Arya UGHHHHH

    Cersei “pregnant” manipulates Jaime UGHHHHHHH

    I mean it was sill good TV but Now I just feel very tense UGHHHHHHHH

    Ditto! Whole episode left me feeling…icky.

  430. Pigeon: Is it too much to ask to have a 10 minute scene of just Richard Dormer and Iain Glen talking to each other? Because I really think there should be a 10 minute scene of just Richard Dormer and Iain Glen talking to each other…

    I am 100% behind this idea! Pure greatness, those two. Unfortunately, I believe that Richard Dormer will be no more after the next episode. 🙁 In the preview, only five of our intrepid adventurers are shown running back underneath the portcullis of Eastwatch. I suspect Beric and Thoros are the two who don’t make it back.

  431. Ginevra: Surely not!I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t the line of the season.

    Will we know it when we hear it, I wonder? Peter’s delivery is always golden, which makes even a throwaway line sound better than it was written. Tyrion’s existential anguish when he was talking to Jaime was palpable. The Dink wrings absolutely all the juice out of every bit of dialogue (or even just walking around without any lines) that he’s given, whether it’s humor or pathos or drama. I can never make up my mind whether he or Alfie Allen has the best acting chops in the whole cast.

  432. Farcical_Aquatic_Ceremony:
    A Wildling,

    And a strong set up for Clegane Bowl *insert air horn* GET HYPE!

    I’m so done with the Cleganebowl hype. But if it’s going to happen, the most ingenious treatment that I’ve heard suggested (probably on some WotW thread) was for Sandor to give the undead remnants of his brother the Gift of Mercy – not in anger, but in compassion and forgiveness. ‘Knowing where the heart is’ seems like it would be a fine way for his arc to bend, ultimately.

  433. Pigeon: Is it too much to ask to have a 10 minute scene of just Richard Dormer and Iain Glen talking to each other? Because I really think there should be a 10 minute scene of just Richard Dormer and Iain Glen talking to each other…

    Seconded!

  434. RG: Since the trailer when I saw the men in the circle I’ve been thinking about the Last Hero story. 12 companions, loyal dog etc. And after Hound’s vision I knew they were going to be there.
    It is pretty cool, yeah? Except for the part where at least one or two of them have to die to convey the seriousness of the situation.
    I hate that part.

    With the eagerness to knock off characters this season, combined with original season trailer, I’m afraid they will ALL die except Jon 😰
    And the worst part would be all the character dynamics skipped over to race to the end.
    I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen that way!!

  435. Got to wonder how the existence of a potentially legitimizable Baratheon heir might figure into Littlefinger’s calculations, once he finds out (and presuming that Gendry makes it back alive from his Arctic expedition). Seems like Lord Baelish is running a little short on options to realize his dream, perhaps feeling a bit hemmed-in and desperate. If his efforts to sow divisiveness amongst Team Stark don’t work as slickly as he’d like, he may turn to any other opportunity to inspire chaos that presents itself. I can just smell the smoke coming out his ears as the little wheels turn in his crafty head.

  436. Hi Everyone!

    First I would like to say how fantastic it is to have Watchers on the Wall as a very well read and crafted community where we can discuss everything ASOIAF.
    That being said I’m going to put my two scents in this conversation. Feel free to reply but it’s my honest opinion.

    TIME TABLE & WRITING:
    If you value the quality of the show I don’t get why cut the season to 7 episodes instead of the normal 10. Characters moving from locating from location seems a bit forced and by consequence we’re not getting quality acting. Little details in their interactions are being left out, must needed conversations are ignored, everything is rushed and some scenes honest to God look straight out of a fanfiction “thought you might still be rowing”… and by consequence this all seems resulting in all the CGI. The Drogon/Jon scene was breathtaking beautiful but utterly unnecessary when you have Ser Jorah Mormont; a character cured from greyscale just pop up again only to get a “wow, you look well. Great tan” explanation of his return. It seems that the whole season is focused on special effects and battles galore. Acting was the thing that made Game of Thrones “Game of Thrones”.

    GENDRY:

    I was totally that commentator who just turned up, read the article and left a “Where’s Gendry” mark.

    Again with the writing! The last time we saw him and the whole character conception was a lowborn boy who wanted nothing with his heritage. If anything it only brought him problems. Suddenly he pops up in the city where Cersei has her little birds everywhere, working for the Lannisters. Leaves with Daavos without asking, goes over to Dragonstone where he was kinda raped and leached and presents himself to the King of the North as equals (I knew your sister… cough cough… she saved me… cough, cough… you’re all she talked about on our way to Castle Black). No? Anyone? Was it just me?

    And again with the CGI. You have anything left other than what you use for the dragons? Cuz that warhammer looks ridiculous.

    ARYA / SANSA:
    Don’t worry, this ins’t another ‘who’s better?’ post. This was actually a high point for me.

    Maisie Williams is a juggernaut of acting. I’ve said it since season 1; the girl has more expression on a lift of her eyebrow than half of the cast and Sophie Turner has sooooo much potential! Both girls bring out the best in each other, something that could have only come from growing up together. Kudos Casting Director.

    That being said; both Arya and Sansa are right. Sansa has to be careful with the lords and Arya has every right to pr