Game of Thrones Season 7 Episode 5 – Eastwatch – Episode Chat

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Game of Thrones Season 7, Episode 5 “Eastwatch”
Director: Matt Shakman
Runtime: 59 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Violence
Video Preview: Eastwatch

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Please use spoiler coding when discussing ASOIAF book or filming spoilers- any material that has not aired or been discussed on Game of Thrones.  Please do not post ANY leak spoilers in this Chat post before it airs on HBO! Leak discussion is only permitted in our Quarantine forum.  If you haven’t yet joined our Community Forums, now would be the perfect time to do so! Thank you for your consideration.

General guidelines: Spoiler coding is required in the Chat post prior to the “Eastwatch” official airing (9PM EDT tonight!). Please cover and label your spoilers appropriately. After the episode has aired, you don’t have to cover spoilers from the episode anymore. Have a great night and enjoy the episode!

675 responses

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    1. Tonight is bound to be a more low key affair after the craziness of the last episode.

      Still, every episode until the end is likely to be packed with a heavy dose of revelations and foreshadowing.

      Can’t wait

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    2. A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

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    3. the singular place name of the show makes me think of hardhome. with only 3 episodes left this season, i’m expecting the action to continue and some good battle action tonight.

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    4. stefan666:
      A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

      It’s really disappointing.

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    5. Jack Bauer 24,

      Disappointment appears to be your default setting. Really not seeing what you guys are seeing here. I can see Dany still sitting up on top of Drogon in the wide shot and he looks frigging huge. As for size comparison I trust the effects guys who are total pros much more than somebody watching a five second clip (shot with Jon) which doesn’t even show Drogon’s whole head, just his snout.

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    6. stefan666:
      A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

      I checked a YouTube clip of the 6×9 scene and tried to freeze it with Drogon’s head at the same angle as in the clip above with Jon and it looks to me that he is quite a bit larger now next to Jon. Dany comes up about to Drogon’s eyes while Jon only is about level with his nostrils. So I don’t see an inconsistency there.

      Yeah, I am really that bored this Sunday afternoon!

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    7. Loving that we will get the same director; so here’s to hoping for another epic GoT episode and can’t believe we are nearly finished with this season

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    8. Stoked for tonight. Should be some fantastic dialog between the Lannister brothers- assuming Jaime is held captive. Excited to watch Tyrion play the hostage card in a plea for Dany to spare Jaime, for now. At least this is my guess… And what will happen to Bronn? The aftermath of this battle has me most hyped for this episode.

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    9. Lord of Coffee: I checked a YouTube clip of the 6×9 scene and tried to freeze it with Drogon’s head at the same angle as in the clip above with Jon and it looks to me that he is quite a bit larger now next to Jon.Dany comes up about to Drogon’s eyes while Jon only is about level with his nostrils. So I don’t see an inconsistency there.

      Yeah, I am really that bored this Sunday afternoon!

      Except Drogon’s head was lowered all the way to the ground in 6×9. In this one the lowest point of his head is at Jon’s waist. I’m not blind.

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    10. stefan666: Except Drogon’s head was lowered all the way to the ground in 6×9. In this one the lowest point of his head is at Jon’s waist. I’m not blind.

      Nope. His head is NOT on the ground in the 6×9 clip. It looks just about the same distance off the ground as the clip above.

      But you’ve decided what you want to see.

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    11. stefan666,

      Look at stills of Dany riding Drogon in season 6 and look at the very beginning of this preview clip. Drogon is much larger now. And again, the part you’re talking about with Jon, you’re looking at a side view of his snout only. Not his entire head.

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    12. So excited for this episode! 😀
      Though a small, pessimistic part of my brain feels that, after the epicness of last week, this can almost only disappoint, lol.

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    13. HBO better fucking chuck money at the final season. It’s the least they can do considering the sums they’re making out if this show.

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    14. The most physically visceral reaction I ever had when reading ASOIAF was the Brienne chapter when Randyll fucking Tarly told her she could do with a good raping…….. No other character made me want to physically strangle them more than him. Hope Dany roasts the fuck outta him

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    15. Wow. Now people have resorted to whining about how terrible the episode was before it even aired. Maybe there should be a special quarantine forum for boring nitpicky whiners too 🙂

      Anyway, I haven’t been reading much this week. Is there no episode description? I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

      Presumably we’re going to see lots of White Walker terror

      the dead things in the water letter

      from the book must be happening? I can’t wait. But I’m really worried for Tormund.

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    16. Just watched the preview. The complaining about Drogons head is laughable. Did you guys get a ruler and measure? In 3 seconds we see a front angle with his mouth open with Jon standing at least 20 to 30 feet in front of him. Geez people.

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    17. I think this episode will be the perfect time for the characters to assess their situations.
      We can count Drogon’s teeth later….let’s just enjoy the ride.

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    18. Just give me a chat between Jon and Varys and I’ll be happy.

      Violator:

      Dragon will either lick his face or try to hump his leg.

      Dany might do the same.

      Either’s good anyhow.

      I thoroughly agree with this statement 😊

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    19. Current mental exercise: calibrating how many beers I can retrieve and open while keeping my eyes glued to the tv screen for fifty-nine minutes. Who says I’m not an intellectual?

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    20. Violator,

      Can’t help but think of Christmas Vacation:

      Danny: “Now, Drogon, you roll over so cousin Jon can scratch your belly. Sorry ’bout that Jon. He’s got a bit of Mississippi leg hound in’em. Best just t’ let’m finish.

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    21. I think regardless, we can all agree that the dragons have had a weird growth cycle that was convenient as shit for the show, and not 100% consistent with the random lore of past dragons. But those past dragons are just stories, can we really believe a bunch of medieval ppl telling stories about things they didn’t personally see anyway? And I’m no dragon expert either sooo….

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    22. weirwoodtreehugger,

      That’s basically what the episode chat has come to before the episode airs. It’s always the same faces as well.

      I’m really looking forward to it myself, and even if it is a bit more talky/expositiony that isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

      Re the dragon head: people moan about the size of the dragons every year, and some of the same people who are moaning that they’re smaller this year moaned last year during the season that they were larger in Season 5.

      I swear some people take all the fun out of watching this fantastic show.

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    23. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
      Just watched the preview. The complaining about Drogons head is laughable. Did you guys get a ruler and measure? In 3 seconds we see a front angle with his mouth open with Jon standing at least 20 to 30 feet in front of him. Geez people.

      I think they must be losing their touch at nitpicking.

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    24. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: Your epitaph will probably read: “He was disappointed.”

      Just incredible isn’t it? Just the same old crap on every thread. I had to chuckle at the first comment and to JB 24’s reply:

      Wrath of the Gods:
      Where’s Ghost tho? -_-

      Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money.

      ‘Wrath of the Gods’ post as I saw it was not meant to be taken seriously and a spoof of one of JB 24’s comments from a previous thread and he didn’t realize that 🙂

      – and as for ‘HBO won’t pony up the money’ perhaps he could donate a few bucks to HBO to bolster up the ‘$millions’ they spend each season to produce GoT! There’s nothing disappointing at what I’ve seen so far. The best cinematography along with SFX and CGI I’ve seen on any TV fantasy drama show.

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    25. stefan666:
      A shot like the one featured in this preview proves that the dragon size is inconsistent. Drogon’s head is bigger in 6×9 when Dany stands next to his head than it is here next to Jon. Plus he looked way bigger in the last week’s ep.

      They are totally inconsistent. The VFX people claim Drogon is Balerion’s size this year, yet the skull in 7.02 was way larger next to Cersei than Drogon’s skull is.

      And as you say, it looked like it was bigger last year, though that could just be an angle thing.

      Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

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    26. Catspaw Assassin:
      Current mental exercise: calibrating how many beers I can retrieve and open while keeping my eyes glued to the tv screen for fifty-nine minutes. Who says I’m not an intellectual?

      Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits? (hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

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    27. I was actually chill about this episode (because I figure we need a “breather” after last one) but OMFG that little HBO teaser…..
      DROGON!! JON!!!!!!
      #pleasedontfryhim

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    28. Jack Bauer 24,

      Alas gingers don’t fair well on this show, do they? But if anyone can beat back, or at least stall the advance of, the undead it’s our big man Tormund.

      Oh please, please, don’t kill off Tormund! I’m still getting over my epic fail of shipping Qyburn and Craster! Those two were meant for each other. 😉

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    29. So close now! 3 hours and change. Obviously curious to see if either Bronn or Jaimie drowned in Blackwater Rush. Also curious whether Littlefinger lives through another episode. He’s due for tumble down the stairs followed by a “I did tell you not to trust me.”

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    30. Markus Stark: They are totally inconsistent. The VFX people claim Drogon is Balerion’s size this year, yet the skull in 7.02 was way larger next to Cersei than Drogon’s skull is.

      And as you say, it was bigger last year.

      Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

      They oversold his size all off season.

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    31. TheLannistersWin:
      I think regardless, we can all agree that the dragons have had a weird growth cycle that was convenient as shit for the show, and not 100% consistent with the random lore of past dragons. But those past dragons are just stories, can we really believe a bunch of medieval ppl telling stories about things they didn’t personally see anyway? And I’m no dragon expert either sooo….

      It’s Folkstale mostly. They say Robb Starks can turn into a wolf himself if wants to. They say he can’t be killed.
      They also say we live in a blue eye giant named Macumber

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    32. weirwoodtreehugger:
      Wow.Now people have resorted to whining about how terrible the episode was before it even aired.Maybe there should be a special quarantine forum for boring nitpicky whiners too 🙂

      Anyway, I haven’t been reading much this week.Is there no episode description?I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

      Presumably we’re going to see lots of White Walker terror

      from the book must be happening?I can’t wait.But I’m really worried for Tormund.

      No episode description. Dead things in the water referred to Hardhome, so I think that’s done with.

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    33. King Podrick: It’s Folkstale mostly. They say Robb Starks can turn into a wolf himself if wants to. They say he can’t be killed.
      They also say we live in a blue eye giant named Macumber

      Maybe we do.

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    34. Among the many things that I’m looking forward to tonight, I’m extremely hyped for return of Tormund Giantsbane, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, and Sandor Clegane. Last we heard from all of them was in the season premiere, and they were all heading towards the titular Eastwatch-by-the-Sea. I think it’s safe to assume that their paths will be intersecting there. In particular, seeing Tormund and the Hound interact will be a treat. One can only hope that the subject of Brienne of Tarth will come up somehow. 🙂

      I’m also excited to see what Matt Shakman has cooked up for his second (and sadly, most likely last) turn in the director’s chair. He impressed the hell out of me with his work on “The Spoils of War”, and while it seems inevitable that “Eastwatch” will be a quieter episode than that game-changing hour, it should still be full of great character moments. T-minus 3 hours … let’s do this!

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    35. Knight of the Walkers:
      weirwoodtreehugger,

      That’s basically what the episode chat has come to before the episode airs. It’s always the same faces as well.

      I’m really looking forward to it myself, and even if it is a bit more talky/expositionythat isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

      Re the dragon head: people moan about the size of the dragons every year, and some of the same people who are moaning that they’re smaller this year moaned last year during the season that they were larger in Season 5.

      I swear some people take all the fun out of watching this fantastic show.

      I’m not sure how people criticizing the show ruins your enjoyment.

      Are you really that sensitive ? It’s just fiction, people are gonna have different opinions.
      And if the dragon sizes have been a little inconsistent, it’s perfectly legitimate to point it out and discuss it.

      If you’re not interested in that discussion, don’t partake in it. There’s no reason for it to ruin your fun.

      It’s such a minor thing anyway, nobody is acting like the show is bad because of a couple potentially inconsistent VFX shots.

      I loved the Battle for the Wall in Season 4, yet at the time a lot of mainstream critics criticized it for being a supposedly pale and less interesting version of Blackwater. Casual fans felt the same way, because they weren’t anywhere near as attached to the Night’s Watch story as they were to the King’s Landing story.

      Didn’t stop me from loving it and thinking it was better than Blackwater.

      Just enjoy what you enjoy, and let others enjoy or dislike whatever they enjoy or dislike.

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    36. To everyone bitching about the size of the dragons:
      So the people who are bringing mythical creatures to your television screen using technology and skill that you can hardly fathom have disappointed you because of the 2 seconds they were in a 30 second trailer…
      Apparently there is some show called Claws on TNT at the same time as GOT. Maybe it would be more to your speed.

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    37. NORTHERNFAITHFUL: Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits?(hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

      For the millionth time, the HBO run times include opening and closing credits, which are about a minute and a half each. They do not include the “Previously On” segment, which by the way has never been 10 minutes.

      So you’re getting about 56 minutes of actual show. Keep in mind though that they do round these numbers up, so if the episode is say 58 minutes and 20 seconds, that counts as a 59 minute episode.

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    38. dothrakian raven,

      Very unlikely in my opinion: as much as Dany wants to see Jon bend the knee, I don’t think she really cares about “the dead are coming” story… She is so obsessed with this I-want-to-sit-on-the-iron-throne dream of her.

      So I guess Jon will probably use a helicopter to reach eastwatch in less than 59mn!

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    39. Everett:
      To everyone bitching about the size of the dragons:
      So the people who are bringing mythical creatures to your television screen using technology and skill that you can hardly fathom have disappointed you because of the 2 seconds they were in a 30 second trailer…
      Apparently there is some show called Claws on TNT at the same time as GOT. Maybe it would be more to your speed.

      It’s both sad and hilarious that it’s become impossible to make any negative comment about the show or to discuss anything in a critical way without people coming out and calling it “bitching”.

      Here’s an idea, maybe instead of complaining about other people’s complaints, you should ignore them, or respond to them if you actually have something to contribute.

      People who whine about whiners are infinitely more aggravating than the original whiners.

      And no one fucking said that it was a big deal. Even if the dragon sizes are a little off, it’s a tiny, minor issue. Nobody is actually going to start saying the show sucks because of a tiny potential VFX discrepancy.

      So chill out.

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    40. I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth? But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father? Were there any Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion? When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

      Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this? The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

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    41. Dragon head size debate? Never thought I’d long for the days of bitching about Sansa’s wigs…

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    42. Mary:
      I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth?But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father?Were thereany Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion?When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

      Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this?The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

      There has been a fan theory floating around for years about the Mad King being his real father.

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    43. Markus Stark,

      You have every right to criticize the show. Just like we have the right to call your criticisms ridiculous. And they have been especially ridiculous this year. Let’s look at the main complaints:

      Unspecified travel times, called “jet packing” by nit pickers, which has been present the entire duration of the series

      Sam’s financial situation in Old Town

      And now, dragon size “inconsistencies” that have already been refuted

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    44. Young Dragon,

      Don’t forget the depth of the water. The depth of the f’ing water. That almost broke my brain.

      If you’re gonna nitpick be prepared to back it up with something concrete. Otherwise don’t bitch when you get called out.

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    45. Sunfyre:
      Markus Stark,

      Wow.Did you bother to read this thread?

      You nitpickers must be such fun at parties.

      I actually am quite good fun at parties, had an awesome one just last night, thanks for inquiring !

      I’m afraid, my friend, that I did read the thread. I fear that it is you who has been slacking on the reading.

      My comment clearly said that Drogon’s head looked to me like it was bigger last year, but as I said, it could just have to do with the angle.

      What I was talking about was Balerion’s skull next to Cersei supposedly being the same size as Drogon’s this year. The VFX teams claimed that, and I’m dubious.

      Also, the 747 thing. Drogon did not look anywhere near that size in last week’s episode.

      But no, contrary to what many assume, I’m not saying I know for a fact that the sizes are wrong, I’m saying they seem totally inconsistent to me.

      I did not go looking for the accurate measurements and dimensions, but if you want to, feel free and report back to me with your evidence.

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    46. Markus Stark,

      Never said that it ruins my enjoyment. If people want to be miserable and spend lots of their own time whining that’s fine by me. I try to spend my free time doing things I enjoy, and I don’t enjoy whining. That isn’t to say I always focus on the positive, because I’ve mentioned things I’ve disliked about each episode in episode posts for the first three episodes this season (I didn’t for episode 4 because I loved it so much, although there are a few small quibbles I have with it).

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    47. Oh wow! That snippet with Dreamking Jon and Drogon and Queen of Bunches of Titles shook me! What next, will he get a ride? This show is so amazing and has my heart racing more than ever before.

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    48. Stranger’s Pooper Scooper:
      Dragon head size debate? Never thought I’d long for the days of bitching about Sansa’s wigs…

      Strange, seems to me that the size of the massively important mythical creatures’ heads would be a lot more interesting than Sansa’s bloody hair.

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    49. Sunfyre:
      Young Dragon,

      Don’t forget the depth of the water. The depth of the f’ing water. That almost broke my brain. If you’re gonna nitpick be prepared to back it up with something concrete. Otherwise don’t bitch when you get called out.

      For me the head canon on that is that the channel is regularly dredged and has simply flooded a bit in the last days of summer.

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    50. Young Dragon:
      Does anyone know who wrote this episode?

      No official word, but it’s a very safe bet that Dave Hill did. He always gets an episode, and D&D will definitely have wanted to write the last two.

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    51. I don’t think anyone was actually seriously criticizing the show for the inconsistent dragon sizes… I think it was just being pointed out…… -_-

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    52. Markus Stark,

      I have no measurements. The burden of proof isn’t on me. It’s on the one making the claim.

      Anyway, I’m done. Your response was measured and I appreciate that. I just find some of the attitudes here frustrating. I mean, this is it for GoT. There is a very real chance that this story will not be adapted again in our lifetimes. Let’s all try to enjoy it while we can.

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    53. stefan666:
      Biscotti Knight,

      I’m the last person to nitpick, I was okay with the Sand Snakes ffs. This here is literally the first thing I ”complained” about on this site. So try someone else.

      If you intend to stay on this site, you’re going to have to get used to it I’m afraid.

      People here are pretty aggressive with anyone who doesn’t praise the show endlessly. The second you say anything other than “OMG it was sooooo perfect, what a great show, they did it again”, you’re going to be attacked by people calling you a “moaner”, a “whiner”, a “book purist”, and a “bitcher”, even if it’s completely uncalled for and inaccurate.

      Unfortunately that’s the price we pay to participate in this community. Civility is reserved for those we agree with, apparently.

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    54. Unless ya’ll want to grab a measure tape and go on a trip to Dragonstone with me I suggest you lay off with your group vulture attacks on me. From what I see with my own eyes, the dragon sizes are inconsistent. Now that doesn’t mean I don’t like the show or that I like to nitpick. I’m fine with Dorne, with no Ghost, with time travel, with sudden deep water. I still like the show more than enything else. Nothing will ruin my experience of it. My statement of dragon sizes is not factual and confirmed, but so is not yours. So once again, lay off.

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    55. A dead man is very disappointed…….
      ……..in the negativity found here on the open episode chat today!!!

      Was in such a good hyped up mood the entire day, because it’s finally Sunday again. Was looking forward to spending a couple of hours with some cool people with brains enough to actually bring some interesting views – or at least crack a few jokes 🙂 before “Eastwatch”…And what do I get? The usual loudmouth whiners totally hoging the chat:

      “They’re is wrong…”
      “You’re wrong…”
      “Spend more money…”
      “They don’t know how to direct…”
      “That’s too shallow…”
      “They don’t know how to write…”
      “That’s too small…”
      “I know better…”

      Why you still watch the show and especially why you come to this fine site to bitch much about every f-ing thing, is beyond my comprehension! Luckily I will probably never understand, as I’m truly not interested in the explanation for such thorough negativity. I wonder if you’re even aware of how annoying and utterly boring this can be to other FANS – you know that word Oxford’s define as: “A person who has a strong interest in or admiration for a particular person or thing”.

      However…A man can decide not follow the chat tonight (really a pity, but I’ll live) and enjoy a couple of the last weeks great episodes, before D&D and Shakman serves up another wonderfully flawed, stunning and captivating episode of our favorite show… Wish everyone (including the whiners 🙂 ) another great Sunday night with GAME OF THRONES!

      A dead man is disappointed…but at least not about the best show in town!

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    56. Markus Stark: For the millionth time, the HBO run times include opening and closing credits, which are about a minute and a half each. They do not include the “Previously On” segment, which by the way has never been 10 minutes.

      So you’re getting about 56 minutes of actual show. Keep in mind though that they do round these numbers up, so if the episode is say 58 minutes and 20 seconds, that counts as a 59 minute episode.

      WOW! thanks for explaining like I’m a complete moron…I will try to be more “accurate” with time lines for my next post; hope the rest of your evening is less of an inconvenience

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    57. Markus Stark,

      I have a solution for folks worrying about the head thing… Drogon’s head puffs up when he gets enraged like some animals that make themselves look larger. Seriously, he really looks alot like a T Rex head to me. Any way you want to look at it, Drogon is frickin HUGE, and I am really looking forward to seeing Jon react to having Drogon so close up. I may go nuts if Rhaegal lands and bends the knee to Jon so he can climb on. What would Danny say about bending the knee then?

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    58. Oh my goodness, that is EXACTLY how we fell here, too. The show is truly heart racing this year, and I am filling these slow slow slow hours reading and rereading every article and comment. I do think Jon will ride a dragon!

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    59. Looking forward to seeing Tormund again. I wonder if we’ll see the BWOB? Can’t wait to see the Hound kick some WW ass! Wonder if Bran will sense the urgency of the situation and tell Jon: not to worry about the dragons, you’re R + L = J! Getting real excited and finding it hard to process that there will only be two more after tonight. Glad that I’m taping them! Enjoy everyone!

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    60. weirwoodtreehugger:
      Is there no episode description? I didn’t see it in this post and the Xfinity channel guide just has the title.

      Oh, yes. Here it is:

      Daenerys demands loyalty; Jon heeds a warning; Cersei vows to vanquish; Jack Bauer 24 gets disappointed.

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    61. Mary:
      I have been thinking and thinking about everything and I suppose someone else has already said this – Do you remember how Tywin was always rejecting Tyrion, and we assumed (at least I did) that it was due to his size and that the mom died in childbirth?But then I started to think about it, and it seems to me he actually says, “you are not my son” and maybe he meant it literally, that someone else was Tyrion’s father?Were thereany Targaryons lurking about that could have fathered Tyrion?When Tyrion was with the dragons in that other place, when they were in the doghouse/dungeon, and he came face to face with them, they didn’t burn him alive, so could they sense he is not a Lannister?

      Also, about the clip – the way it’s framed in ice at the beginning and end – do you think Bran has something to do with this?The way that other 3 eyed raven said he could fly, maybe it’s as the dragon?

      But there was another time when Tywin was talking to Tyrion and said “because you’re a Lannister” (Tywin was essentially voicing his disdain for Tyrion but the fact Tyrion was a Lannister was more important than his hatred of him). I guess Tywin could have still considered him a Lannister even if he knew he wasn’t his father, but I doubt it.

      On the other hand, while I’m not a book reader, I do believe that Tywin was hand of the king to the Mad King. So, it’s possible his wife could have been in KL around other Targs including the Mad King.

      Finally, yes, Bran warging into one or all of the dragons at the same time is a distinct possibility and that could have been what the old 3ER was referring to. I think for that to happen, Dany would likely have to have died or been captured. Then again, the 3ER could have meant that Bran will become the next 3ER (because ravens fly).

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    62. Markus Stark: Also, the VFX teams have repeatedly said Drogon is now the size of a 747. Even last week, he was honestly nowhere near that big when you look at the shot of him flying over the Dothraki.

      Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

      The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

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    63. Young Dragon:
      Markus Stark,

      You have every right to criticize the show. Just like we have the right to call your criticisms ridiculous. And they have been especially ridiculous this year. Let’s look at the main complaints:

      Unspecified travel times, called “jet packing” by nit pickers, which has been present the entire duration of the series

      Sam’s financial situation in Old Town

      And now, dragon size “inconsistencies” that have already been refuted

      I really wonder if people like you are trolls or not. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you’re not.

      First of all, the three things you mentioned are not among my main complains. At all. I think I mentioned Sam’s situation in Oldtown once. And this is the first I’ve discussed dragon sizes.

      So let’s get into it. Sam said in Season 6 that Gilly had to be with his family. Why ? Because no women in the Citadel. Gilly asked if she could stay in the city. Sam said no, because we don’t have any money for that.

      Therefore, I would like to know how they got money they supposedly didn’t have.

      Obviously it’s minor. The point is that it highlights weak writing. They contrived their journey to Horn Hill so that we could meet the Tarlys and steal the sword, and then as soon as they left the Tarlys, all the arguments for going there in the first place vanished, as did all the obstacles for taking Gilly to Oldtown (aka, money).

      That’s weak writing. Nothing ridiculous about pointing it out.

      As for the dragons, I made it very clearly that they LOOKED to me, like they were pretty inconsistent.

      There is nothing fucking wrong with making that statement. I didn’t attack anyone, or argue with anyone, I was joining a conversation that two other users were having.

      And I never pretend that it was a big issue. Just a conversation about dragon sizes. If that’s ridiculous to you, you’re in the wrong place. We’ve had years of direwolf size discussion, why can’t we talk about the dragons ?

      Regarding travel time, “jet-packing”, etc…., if you still don’t get it, you never will.

      It’s a hopeless case. But I’ll give it one last effort.

      When two or more stories intersect, it stands to reason that the same amount of time has passed for both stories, by the time they converge.

      Yara and the Unsullied left Dragonstone around the same time. Euron attacks Yara, returns to KL, and later sails to Casterly Rock (we see that the Silence is there). He makes it there shortly after the Unsullied.

      This would realistically, in the books, take months. In the show, probably 2 or 3 weeks.

      So, how come Theon makes it back to Dragonstone AFTER Dany has already heard about the events at Casterly Rock ? Theon should have made it back to DS around the same time that Euron returned to KL.

      They were in the same battle, and their two destinations are right next to each other.
      Yet the events of Casterly Rock are clearly taking place a couple weeks later.

      Therefore, Theon’s arrival on DS in Episode 4, after the events of Casterly Rock and Highgarden are already over, is nonsensical.

      Because it means it took him weeks to return, for some mysterious reason, while Euron apparently returned quickly enough to then turn around and head for the Rock.

      And there are a million equally good and better examples of how time and space have lost all meaning in the past few seasons.

      Of course time can pass off-screen. Everyone knows that, it’s logical, it happens in all fiction, and yes, we all read GRRM’s note on chronology. That isn’t the issue. Time passing between scenes isn’t a free pass to lose all sense of cohesion.

      On the contrary, it’s a responsibility. The time that passes needs to be taken into account. And that it what the writers fail to do.

      They’ll have events that would take weeks or months to occur, and yet when you look at what’s happening with the intersecting characters whose stories haven’t progressed at all, you realize that only a few days passes for some, while weeks pass for others.

      Well, that doesn’t work, when the stories in question are intersecting.

      You can’t have weeks pass for Jaime, Euron, Cersei, and the Unsullied, if only days are passing for Jon, Theon, and Dany.

      And yes, that’s what they did. Because Theon’s return to DS would only take a day or two.

      And Jon hasn’t been there for weeks. In episode 3 she allows him to mine the dragonglass.
      In episode 4, he has not yet begun mining, as we know, from the dialogue.

      Therefore, mere days have passed, at most. Despite this, Jon is present for the news about the Greyjoy battle, and for the news about Catserly Rock and Highgarden. Reports that would arrive weeks apart, because those battles took place weeks apart.

      So going by the armies’ movements, Jon has been on Dragonstone for 3 weeks. Going by the events ON Dragonstone, he’s been there a few days.

      Based on the armies’ movements, Theon has been gone for weeks. Based on logic, and Theon’s scenes, and Dragonstone scenes, Theon has been gone for days.

      This is the issue. This is why people complain about the timeline. Because the showrunners fast forward one story while completely forgetting to make sure that the separate timelines actually line up properly when those stories intersect and converge.

      Passage of time off-screen, which everyone fucking knows about since the first book that was ever written, is not the answer to this problem.

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    64. Jack Bauer 24: Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money.

      Well HBO should be responsible and not get so many pets if it can’t afford to care for them properly ….

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    65. Markus Stark,

      No. Just no. Of the million things worthy of discussing or commenting on about this episode you (and others) chose to focus only on inconsistent dragon head size. There is a HUGE gap between “endlessly praising the show” and whatever it is you are doing. Which annoys people, reasonably.

      Jared,

      Me too! They were so great in their scene is 701, really looking forward to seeing more of them.

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    66. Ginevra: Daenerys demands loyalty; Jon heeds a warning; Cersei vows to vanquish; Jack Bauer 24 gets disappointed.

      Lol. I heard this episode was originally titled “Bend the Knee.” 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    67. I hope Tormund Giantsbane lives up to his name and takes care some of those zombie giants.

      If there is an undead bear I don’t want him to live up to that story.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Mr Fixit: Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

      The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

      These are the guys creating the dragons. If they say “This year, Drogon is the size of a 747, or almost as large as Balerion, they’re not speaking metaphorically. They’re assumed to be actually telling us what the size will be.

      It’s perfectly legitimate to wonder if they weren’t exaggerating a bit.

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    69. HelloThere:
      I don’t think anyone was actually seriously criticizing the show for the inconsistent dragon sizes… I think it was just being pointed out…… -_-

      This brave fellow gets it.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Markus Stark,

      “People who whine about whiners are infinitely more aggravating than the original whiners.”

      Nope. Not to me. But YMMV. I like to come here because it’s generally more chill and positive than most discussion places on the internet, especially with there being a show focus instead of nitpicking over book to show changes on other sites. There are a ton of places you can go to be negative about the show and you can moan to your heart’s content about how D&D got this or that wrong and are hacks etc etc. You’ll be celebrated and patted on the back there.

      WoW is *one of the few* places online that is very show friendly while still allowing speculation and debate over story arcs & characters. I also appreciate how it tries to keep spoilers to a minimum. I prefer to read posts which are generally positive and constructive. I don’t care for criticisms which seem whiny, petty, or largely unsubstantiated. It does detract from my enjoyment and anticipation of the upcoming episode when I have to sift through all the negativity.

      Perhaps keep that in mind, occasionally?

        Quote  Reply

    71. Markus Stark,

      Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

      It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

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    72. Sunfyre:
      Markus Stark,

      I have no measurements. The burden of proof isn’t on me. It’s on the one making the claim.

      Anyway, I’m done. Your response was measured and I appreciate that. I just find some of the attitudes here frustrating. I mean, this is it for GoT. There is a very real chance that this story will not be adapted again in our lifetimes. Let’s all try to enjoy it while we can.

      I agree with you about burden of proof.

      I just think people like you are perhaps a little too sensitive to what you perceive to be nit-picking.

      I love this story, that’s why I scour every detail of it. I’d be down for talking about costumes, food, set design, whatever. I really appreciated how detail oriented it used to be, and so I’m a little disappointed that those standards have waned in my view.

      But don’t let that make you think I dislike the show.

      I LOVE the show. Do I love the books more ? Yes. Do I love the earlier seasons more ? Yes.

      But I still love it now, and as far as I’m concerned, these first 4 episodes of Season 7 have all been much better than anything I’ve seen since “Hardhome” and “The Door”.

      If there’s a season of GoT I don’t like, it’s season 6. Every other one is among my absolute favorite seasons of TV ever. So don’t get too down by the nit-picking.

      It doesn’t mean people are hating the show.

      Anyway, thanks to you too for the measured and kind response.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Succubint,

      Yes, and I pointed out the size of the dragon’s head in one SINGLE comment, not hating, just pointing out. That was apparently enough for 20 of people here to jump on a hate bandwagon and attack me for it. Yet, of course, me and one other guy are the ones who are spreading hate.

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    74. This open chat has turned into a complete dumpster fire today.

      On another note, greetings to everyone who’s excited about the episode tonight. Hope the day is treating you all well so far 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    75. So I have a question about Jon’s knowledge of Bran. Do you think Jon already knows Bran is at WF? And that he’s aware of him being the 3ER?

        Quote  Reply

    76. Jack Bauer 24: Neglected as usual like Rhaegal and Viserion. HBO won’t pony up the money

      At this point in time that cannot be true, GoT is too buzz-famous (hell even more that that!). D&D could ask for the sky and Time-Warner would make sure they got it. The dire-wolves are a mystery , we see more of Rhaegal and Viserion than Ghost. Used to be a money problem not now days.
      Someone need to ask Bryan .

        Quote  Reply

    77. NORTHERNFAITHFUL: Do we actually get 59 minutes for new material or is this “run time” for the entire episode including 10 minutes of what happened previously & the opening credits?(hoping for 59 minutes of NEW material- fingers crossed)

      Fingers crossed that it’s a typo for 159 minutes! Dream big! (•̀o•́)ง

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    78. Mr Fixit:
      Markus Stark,

      Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

      It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

      It could have been a figure of speech, but it certainly didn’t seem that way in the clips I saw.

      Did you watch the bonus material for Episode 4 ? It was the technical department that said that. The technical department. When they say it’s the size of a plane, I tend to assume they aren’t using literary figures, but are actually aiming to give us a precise idea.

      Besides, many similar interviews have clearly used that expression as plainly as possible, there were no figures of speech.

      So yeah, you probably should feel silly for thinking that.

      Here, since you don’t believe me, take it from Matt Shakman, precise measurements and all : http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/game-of-thrones-season-7-dragons/

      ““The dragons this year are the size of 747s,” director Matt Shakman tells EW. “Drogon is the biggest of the bunch — his flame is 30-feet in diameter!”

      Shakman is one of four directors helming next season (the others are GoT vets Alan Taylor, Jeremy Podeswa, and Mark Mylod). He was probably being at least somewhat approximate when comparing the dragons to the venerable Boeing airliner. But for reference, a 747 is about 230 feet long with a 210 feet wingspan. So, really big.”

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    79. Okay moving on, since I should put my money where my mouth is and not add to the negativity…

      That new teaser with Drogon and Jon has me shook. I am so excited about a face to face meeting. He looks terrified there, but I am glad he appears to be standing his ground.

      I don’t think this episode will have any large battle set pieces. We need a breather after Field of Fire 2.0. But if we’re visiting Eastwatch By The Sea, it does make me nervous about where the WWs currently are and Tormund being stationed there. Since the BoB seemed headed that way, I really hope we get some scenes with the Hound. I’ve been missing his character.

      Who else haven’t we seen lately? Sam? Jorah?

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    80. HelloThere,

      Wow! I read your book spoiler about Tarly, and I am speechless! That man is just total scum. In the last episode, he was even suggesting that the straggler Lannister soldiers be flogged. What a father poor Sam has. The saddest thing is Dickon is probably a good person, intrinsically, but has to live up to his horrendous father.

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    81. Mr Fixit: Or, maybe, seeing as how 747 is among the biggest ginormousest things humankind ever launched in the air, maybe they thought to compare it to Drogon to indicate both Drogon’s size and how it relates to other dragons.

      It’s a figure of speech for crying out loud. I feel silly for even having to point it out.

      Drogon as big as a 747 this year, bigger than a A380 next year?

        Quote  Reply

    82. Dutch Maester:
      Markus Stark,

      No. Just no. Of the million things worthy of discussing or commenting on about this episode you (and others) chose to focus only on inconsistent dragon head size.There is a HUGE gap between “endlessly praising the show” and whatever it is you are doing. Which annoys people, reasonably.

      Yeah, it’s hilarious how people pretend like there’s no difference between critical analysis or having a few adaptation choices that make you mad and spending hours and hours every week nitpicking every little thing. That “people think you’re a troll if you don’t endlessly praise the show!” defense is such a fail.

      This fandom has always had its share of nitpicky whiners. Before season one, people saw the trailers and complained about the furniture. They saw the casting news and complained about NCW’s nose. But I swear it’s gotten worse every year. I used to post a lot here. Now I rarely do because between the people who don’t cover their leak spoilers and the people who spend their whole lives here complaining, it’s not much fun anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    83. stefan666,

      Sorry Stefan666, it wasn’t really directed at you specifically, just something that’s been building up over the past couple of weeks. I apologize for making you feel singled out for your one comment.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Sue the Fury:
      Why is everyone so cranky lately? It’s a show night! Relax, have fun and stop sniping at each other.

      Maybe everyone is just feeling the “pain” of a shortened season and realizing this is episode 5 of 7…. it just can’t be so!

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    85. Markus Stark: Here, since you don’t believe me, take it from Matt Shakman, precise measurements and all : http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/game-of-thrones-season-7-dragons/

      ““The dragons this year are the size of 747s,” director Matt Shakman tells EW. “Drogon is the biggest of the bunch — his flame is 30-feet in diameter!”

      Shakman is one of four directors helming next season (the others are GoT vets Alan Taylor, Jeremy Podeswa, and Mark Mylod). He was probably being at least somewhat approximate when comparing the dragons to the venerable Boeing airliner. But for reference, a 747 is about 230 feet long with a 210 feet wingspan. So, really big.”

      Uhm…..

      You do realize it’s not Shakman who gave the 747 dimensions? Its’s the writers of the article after saying that Shakman was “probably at least somewhat approximate”.

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    86. Succubint,

      No need to apologize, it’s okay. It’s just that a lot of people here put a lot of others in the same basket for entirely different things. Me saying that the dragon’s head is smaller than before is different than people complaining about Dorne storyline, Arya’s 6×7,8 episodes , time travel or shallow to deep water in an instant. It fells bad being negatively received for anything remotely not positive about the show. And I consider myself one of the biggest fans of both the show and the books.

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    87. GW,

      LOL I can totally see that happening. Lady Tarly seemed a kind and generous woman. She and her daughter would probably be the sort to send money without telling Lord Tarly.

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    88. Pigeon:
      Guys. It’s only tits and dragons.

      But do dragons have tits? I mean, if their mother has them, it’s kinda strange the kids don’t. Maybe they are rudimentary tits, much like python legs?

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    89. Kay,

      Have you ever watched Black Sails? Tom Hopper is one of my favorite actors on that show. I hope he doesn’t end up as a Hopper-meal for Drogon, but I think he’s doomed.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Dee Stark:
      Markus Stark,

      And you do it too

      We’re all the same lol

      No, I don’t, and no, we’re not.

      I’ve never told someone who enjoyed a scene or an episode that they were wrong to enjoy it. I never whined about someone else having complaints about the show.
      If someone has complaints I’ll either agree politely, disagree politely, or ignore.
      I’ve never decided to harass someone over diverging opinion.

      I’ve also never seen you attacking people who criticized the show.

      So we’re not all the same. Some people like you enjoy things without imposing your view on others, some people like me both enjoy and criticize things without imposing on others (discussing isn’t imposing), and others try to impose that critics of the show shut up.

      That’s the issue.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Markus Stark,

      I have absolutely no problem with intelligent criticism and enjoy engaging in respective discussion regarding the show. Unfortunately, that’s mostly impossible here, because the majority of criticisms aren’t intelligent, they’re nit picks. Ironically, I can find more intelligent conversation at westeros.org than I can from some of the posters here. Now, regarding these criticisms:

      1. Sam’s detour to Horn Hill is such a minor plot point it isn’t even worth discussing. The story line was only meant to serve as an introduction to Randyll. How Sam acquired the money to rent an apartment for Gilly in Old Town isn’t important to the story and isn’t even mentioning. Any intelligent viewer can gather that Sam stole the money from his father, along with Heartsbane.

      2. You’re making a lot of assumptions with your “jet packing” criticisms. First of all, the Unsullied clearly left well before Yara and Ellaria in order to better coordinate their battle plan. Otherwise, they would have been caught in the ambush as well. Second, there’s no telling how far Yara and Ellaria travelled before Euron’s ambush. Therefore, there’s no telling how long it would have taken Theon to make it back. Third, it’s never said how close Dragonstone is to King’s Landing. They may be close in the books, but that may not be true for the show. Lastly, it’s never mentioned how long it takes to get from King’s Landing to Casterly Rock. Once again, you’re merely making assumptions.

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    92. I’m concerned about the leaderless Dornish army. Think of the unsupervised children in the water gardens!

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    93. Mr Fixit: But do dragons have tits? I mean, if their mother has them, it’s kinda strange the kids don’t. Maybe they are rudimentary tits, much like python legs?

      Tits AND dragons, not ON dragons! They hatch their young and don’t nurse them. What would be the point in….*looks at male mammals*

      Awesome, I just literally googled “Do reptiles ever have nipples?” 😑

        Quote  Reply

    94. Succubint,

      I was just wondering because the previews show Jon saying that Bran has seen the army marching towards Eastwatch. There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Direcat,

      That depends on whether he’s allowed to communicate via raven on DS. And I think he is.
      preview spoiler

      Jon states “bran saw the nk….” . That could mean he has received a letter directly from WF or has been informed of the contents of a letter sent to Daeny at DS. Either way he know Bran is at WF. 3ER is a conversation that’ll best occur in person imo.

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    96. Samson:
      I hope Tormund Giantsbane lives up to his name and takes care some of those zombie giants.

      If there is an undead bear I don’t want him to live up to that story.

      I’m not a book reader, but I read somewhere on the Game of Thrones wiki that he got his name because he sliced open the belly of a female giant and then slept inside it to not freeze to death during an intense storm. Then the giant mistook him for her baby and suckled him for 3 months before he could escape. The Tormund was able to successfully get people to call him Giantsbane instead of Giantsbabe.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Direcat,

      “There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.”

      You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
      Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Direcat,

      That would be an interesting raven message. “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

        Quote  Reply

    99. Direcat:
      So I have a question about Jon’s knowledge of Bran.Do you think Jon already knows Bran is at WF?And that he’s aware of him being the 3ER?

      No, I can’t see how Jon knows either at this point. Sounds like, based on the preview, that Jon may get a raven at Dragonstone from Bran about the NK and the wights approaching Eastwatch. So, Jon could find out Bran has returned (which would be kind of disappointing as a viewer for him to find out like that). But if that happens my guess Jon would assume Bran knows about the NK because he physically saw the undead army and not because he is the 3ER. Jon can’t possibly understand what Bran has become via a short scroll from a raven.

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    100. Off topic (what was it again?), but Bill Maher, or someone on his writing staff, made a good crack on his show Friday when he dubbed Sarah Palin “The Daenerys Stillborn of the House of Pancakes.”

      (Though he pronounced it “Daenarious.” For a pothead he can be such a square.)

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    101. ramses:
      Direcat,

      “There must be more to the message then as to why Jon would believe Bran would know that.”

      You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
      Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

      Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Pigeon: Tits AND dragons, not ON dragons! They hatch their young and don’t nurse them. What would be the point in….*looks at male mammals*

      Awesome, I just literally googled “Do reptiles ever have nipples?”

      Okay. Since we are debating the literal meaning of words, did you really look at a male mammal prior to typing your comment? Moreover, did you instruct one closest to you, if the specimen in question belongs to the species of homo sapiens, to remove any intervening garments so you could get a closer look at his sadly malfunctioning mammary glands?

      It’s kinda creepy if you did that, but I totally understand.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Boojam,

      the simple explanation is (as they have stated lots of times) it is a lot of hard work for everyone involved (actors, cgi dept, the wolves themselves..)
      Longer explanation
      In the books yes Jon,Bran and Arya are (or could be) Wargs. In the show 3 characters with the same trait would actually get a bit redundant. Bran is the character whose warging ablity was a main part of his story so he obviously will be Show!warg. Show!Ayra story is focused more on her assassin/ninja skills and Show!Jon’s story is as hero, focused on his determination to save Westeros from the Nights King so while Ghost would be nice to see more he just really is not as important as Dany’s dragons show wise (and even Danys dragons are split into Team A-Drogon and Team B-R and V)

        Quote  Reply

    104. What about Jaime? Is he alive? Dead? Prisoner of Dany? So much more to talk about that Dragon head size.

      I think the Raven will say Bran returned from North of the Wall and seen the Nights army by East Watch.

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    105. Tamwell Sarly,

      Warging isn’t the same as having visions. It wouldn’t be super complex for Jon to understand a warg’s capability since he knew one.
      But your suggestion is possible too!

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    106. Tamwell Sarly: But there was another time when Tywin was talking to Tyrion and said “because you’re a Lannister” (Tywin was essentially voicing his disdain for Tyrion but the fact Tyrion was a Lannister was more important than his hatred of him). I guess Tywin could have still considered him a Lannister even if he knew he wasn’t his father, but I doubt it.

      Tyrion’s mother was a Lannister too. She was Tywin’s cousin.

        Quote  Reply

    107. I love this thread so much 😂😂😂

      I hope they do an inside the episode on the size of the dragons heads from season 1 through 7.

        Quote  Reply

    108. The discussion about Bran makes me wonder again about his role going forward. Is his future arc about seeing clearly and connecting the dots? Specifically about the past wrt Jon’s parentage? Will he also serve as the ultimate form of reconnaissance in the battle with the White Walkers? How do D&D place obstacles in front of him considering how powerful he is now? He is so godlike it makes me fear for him because in theory he can see everything. In order for the story to have any tension his power would need to be diminished in some way… or removed completely.

      Just typing this out reinforces for me how difficult a superpowered Bran must be for GRRM (and D&D) to handle. And why he’s been used so sparingly.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Direcat,

      I agree, but thought it was funny enough to merit a mention. Besides, I’m walking on catspaws over tonight’s episode. ~(=^‥^)=

        Quote  Reply

    110. Sunfyre,

      To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

        Quote  Reply

    111. 1 hour to go! Excited to see:
      – outcome of last episode’s cliffhanger (my bet is Jaime will survive; looked like he was wearing his plot armor 😊)
      – Jon/Drogon’s face off (been wondering if Drogon is pissed or excited in that clip)
      – Eastwatch and the marching army of the dead

      Enjoy the episode!

        Quote  Reply

    112. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
      I love this thread so much

      I hope they do an inside the episode on the size of the dragons heads from season 1 through 7.

      And after that, an episode on just how deep the water was that Jamie fell into! I jest, I got caught up in that one myself :)!! We each have our “thing” but we all enjoy the show! And this Watcher’s site!

        Quote  Reply

    113. Sunfyre:
      Direcat,

      That would be an interesting raven message. “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

      😂😂😂😂

        Quote  Reply

    114. I have almost re-watched season 7. Just noticed Bran gives Arya a double look when he passes the Dagger to her. Check it out. It’s like he had a vision right there.

      40 mins away. Can’t wait. Super hyped!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    115. ramses:
      Sunfyre,

      To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

      It sure does point in that direction. Reminds of Harry Potter and Voldemort. Which it seems there are a few things this season that are reminiscent of that series.

        Quote  Reply

    116. ramses,

      Great point. And as the White Walkers take center stage the show will be forced to define them further. Hopefully revealing the Night King’s abilities and motivations. My gut tells me this will happen more in Season 8 but hoping they tease some of it in these last few episodes.

      Perhaps Bran’s struggle with the Night King will take place on the metaphysical level while Jon will confront him on the battlefield. Two prongs of attack.

        Quote  Reply

    117. ramses:
      Tamwell Sarly,

      Warging isn’t the same as having visions. It wouldn’t be super complex for Jon to understand a warg’s capability since he knew one.
      But your suggestion is possible too!

      I know warging and the greensight aren’t the same. Not sure what I wrote that would make it seem like I was confused, but that’s ok. Yeah, I agree, Jon grasps the warging concept since he’s seen that first hand. However, it’s not Bran’s warging that would be the source of any message sent to Jon, it’d be the greensight…and that’s something much less common and would be something more difficult for Jon to grasp without seeing Bran demonstrate or explain it.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Dead Dane Walking,

      Yes, took the words right out of my mouth. There are several regulars who have been scarce this week, wonder if they tire of the complaints as well. I don’t mind bring up things that are real problems, but really, the size of the dragons head? No one fricking noticed they were too shocked and awed by the dragon itself!!

      Anyway almost time, got go get comfy, turn off phones, make popcorn and drinks…..this should be fun!

        Quote  Reply

    119. Sunfyre,

      I agree. I fully expect season 8 we’ll see; Bran get ahold of his new capability, further illumination of NK’s capability (particularly after crossing the wall) and maybe (fingers crossed) more explanation regarding the WWs in general. S7 Bran is, in a way, grappling with another form of paralysis.

      Hopefully, Arya will see some action too 😀

        Quote  Reply

    120. Events I’d like to see transpire tonight:

      Jaime and Bronn wash up on the river bank and are about to be torn asunder by Dothhraki, but are saved by Tyrion. Hilarious comedic dialogue ensues.

      Cersei and Baelish are revealed to be BFFs.

      The return of the inept Winterfell guards, Fric and Frac.

      Little Sam is now the size of a 747.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Tamwell Sarly: I know warging and the greensight aren’t the same. Not sure what I wrote that would make it seem like I was confused, but that’s ok. Yeah, I agree, Jon grasps the warging concept since he’s seen that first hand. However, it’s not Bran’s warging that would be the source of any message sent to Jon, it’d be the greensight…and that’s something much less common and would be something more difficult for Jon to grasp without seeing Bran demonstrate or explain it.

      But Bran knows the NK is at Eastwatch due to his warging into a raven, right? I think that was the point.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Grandmaester Flash: Tyrion’s mother was a Lannister too.She was Tywin’s cousin.

      Oh, ok. I think I might’ve known that at one time. So, yeah, I suppose the Tyrion is part Targ theory is still a possibility. Although, I do recall reading somewhere that Tywin’s wife was nowhere near KL during the time frame in which she became pregnant with Tyrion. But, then again, I’m not a book reader so I don’t know if that’s true or not.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Sunfyre:
      ramses,

      Great point. And as the White Walkers take center stage the show will be forced to define them further. Hopefully revealing the Night King’s abilities and motivations. My gut tells me this will happen more in Season 8 but hoping they tease some of it in these last few episodes.

      Perhaps Bran’s struggle with the Night King will take place on the metaphysical level while Jon will confront him on the battlefield.Two prongs of attack.

      That makes sense as a way of fighting the NK. Also, Bran can give Jon info on the locations of the WW. He might as well take advantage of their connection.

        Quote  Reply

    124. ramses:
      Sunfyre,

      To that I’ll say what are the NK’s abilities? We’re not exactly sure what he’s capable of but we know he can enter into Bran’s visions and interact with him. I think this will be the obstacle Bran encounters in the war.

      Yeah, seems the NK has the greensight and warging ability too (warging into the dead). So, as “god like” as Bran may be, the NK would be way more powerful (since he’s had those powers for thousands of years). In other words, as powerful as Bran is becoming, he’s still only one piece of the puzzle to defeat the NK.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Tamwell Sarly,

      Me:
      You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
      Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

      You:
      Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

      Specifically this exchange. I wasn’t sure if you knew I was referring to warging in my comment that you responded to.
      No big deal though 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    126. Ginevra: But Bran knows the NK is at Eastwatch due to his warging into a raven, right?I think that was the point.

      I was under the impression Bran knew about NK going to Eastwatch from a vision. The last time I was aware he warged into anything was Hodor. They’ve not shown him warging into a Raven or even mentioned it, so I assumed he’s been honing his new found greensight skills since that’s what the 3ER was teaching/dumping on him.

      But, yeah, ok…point proven with the preview.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Ginevra,

      Yeah. At first from the preview I thought those were ravens leaving WF to inform other houses about the WW.
      Upon rewatch, it seems to be ravens leaving under Bran’s command to spy on the WW.

        Quote  Reply

    128. I’ve found this particular chat session to be much more entertaining while listening to various versions of “The Rains Of Castamere”. 😀

        Quote  Reply

    129. IronPrice112:
      I have almostre-watched season 7.Just noticed Bran gives Arya a double look when he passes the Dagger to her.Check it out.It’s like he had a vision right there.

      Just watched the last two episodes and the chat seems “safe” again, so I’ll stop by for the loooong 15 minutes still to go!

      I didn’t really see that special double look, but I did notice Arya suddenly wore Needle on the left side as a right-handed?! That’s a little odd… She’s always had it on the right side and she does again in the courtyard when sparring with Brienne. Wonder if that’s a production mistake or a little clue about something?

        Quote  Reply

    130. ramses:
      Tamwell Sarly,

      Me:
      You’re right. He must know something about Bran’s ability.
      Of course Jon would readily accept the fact that his brother is a warg like the wildling Orell.

      You:
      Why couldn’t it be as simple as Jon knowing Bran was north of the wall and physically saw the NK and army marching toward Eastwatch. That’s easier for Jon to believe via a Raven’s scroll than Bran has all knowing visions. Raven messages are short and can’t possibly convey the complex transformation Bran has gone through. Jon would need to “see it” to understand.

      Specifically this exchange. I wasn’t sure if you knew I was referring to warging in my comment that you responded to.
      No big deal though

      Gotcha. I guess I didn’t pay enough attention to the preview and, as Ginerva pointed out to me above, it looks like Bran uses his warging after all to see the NK’s army and not visions. So, yeah, I guess my speculation was for not.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Sam:
      Dee Stark,

      I’m scared too, especially if this is going to be like Hardhome. But can’t wait to see Jon and the gang in action.

      So we need to start a prayer circle for Tormund? #TormundWatch2K17

        Quote  Reply

    132. Tamwell Sarly,

      Perhaps not. We still don’t know what the WF Starks deem fit to write to Jon. It just might be your explanation is a easier message for them to convey.
      12 minutes and counting. 👍

        Quote  Reply

    133. Sam:
      Dee Stark,

      I’m scared too, especially if this is going to be like Hardhome. 😱 But can’t wait to see Jon and the gang in action. 😃

      Doubt we’re going to get a HH type battle tonight. Jon isn’t at Eastwatch yet and Dany still hasn’t agreed to help him.

        Quote  Reply

    134. Silent Sister:
      I’ve found this particular chat session to be much more entertaining while listening to various versions of “The Rains Of Castamere”.

      The chat session escalated quickly.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Sunfyre: “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven… I’ll explain later”

      Haha 🙂 …or: “Dear Jon, I’m now an omnipotent all-seeing godlike entity known as the Three Eyed Raven. Wanna know when you’ll die…again? Oh and where in seven hells DID you learn that thing, you did with your tongue?”

        Quote  Reply

    136. Angela: That makes sense as a way of fighting the NK. Also, Bran can give Jon info on the locations of the WW. He might as well take advantage of their connection.

      Yes. I do wonder about the logistics of it. Especially when it gets down to actual armies facing off with one another in close combat. Will Bran actually speak through ravens to relay things to Jon in real time?

      And then there’s the dragons of course. The battles I picture in my brain are epic and complex and intimate and brutal and supernatural and gritty all at the same time. With so many main characters interacting facing an endless tide of White Walkers. The wait for Season 8 is gonna be a major endurance test…

      Edited to add: 6 Minutes!!!

        Quote  Reply

    137. Dear Jon, I’m glad you didn’t bend the knee in that one cave even though you bent the tongue in the other. That’s what I do: I sit and I know shit.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Mr Fixit: Yes, and when one is said to be a thousand miles away, it is a safe bet to assume the person in question is not in fact a thousand miles away. He or she might even be standing right next to you. In the same vein, a hungry person who ate a truckload did not actually eat the specified amount, whatever the size of said truck may have been, unless it was a very small truck indeed.

      The vagueness of language can be quite an obstacle to reliable communication, true. Seeing the way language is used and interpreted by certain people here, one could almost be forgiven for wishing Orwellian Newspeak had made it from 1984 to our world.

      The funny thing is that I recently (in a thread about getting gold from Highgarden to King’s Landing in a fortnight) estimated that show!Westeros is about 2/3 scale of book!Westeros based on Roose Bolton’s statements about the size of the North (when legitimizing Ramsay). If that’s the case, then the guards at Winterfell telling Arya that Jon Snow was “a thousand miles” away were almost exactly literally correct.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Silent Sister,

      LOL

      I wanna glide down over the Stormlands
      I wanna write Dany’s name in the sky
      I’m wanna free fall out into nothin’
      Gonna need my mommy to pull this spear outta me

      And I’m free, free fallin’

        Quote  Reply

    140. Oh no, not Rickon, I mean Dickon!

      Oh shit, wait until Sam hears about this. Just kidding, will he care? He’s freaking rich now.

        Quote  Reply

    141. It’s a testament to how much thought goes into this show that a CGI “creature” has a personality that has grown over the years.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Yeah… well Tyrion burned many more at blackwater. A fact even he seems to have forgotten. War is ugly.

      cuddlycrow:
      Sorry, what Dany did was just evil! Burning alive is horrible! I really do not like her now!

        Quote  Reply

    143. Apollo,

      Burning alive as execution and burning as a weapon during battle are quite different. Dany needs to tread carefully if she is to avoid resurrecting her father’s reputation (burning people alive out of battle).

      It’s good storytelling though as my feelings for her keep shifting. One minute I find her arrogant, the next empowered. One minute she’s cruel and ruthless and the next seemingly merciful and caring.

        Quote  Reply

    144. Apollo:
      Yeah… well Tyrion burned many more at blackwater. A fact even he seems to have forgotten. War is ugly.

      Tyrion didn’t know really what to expect. At least, he was horrified by what wildfire did. Dany HAD a choice, but decide to be evil. pure and simple.

        Quote  Reply

    145. Sunfyre: Yes. I do wonder about the logistics of it. Especially when it gets down to actual armies facing off with one another in close combat. Will Bran actually speak through ravens to relay things to Jon in real time?

      And then there’s the dragons of course. The battles I picture in my brain are epic and complex and intimate and brutal and supernatural and gritty all at the same time.With so many main characters interacting facing an endless tide of White Walkers.The wait for Season 8 is gonna be a major endurance test…

      Edited to add: 6 Minutes!!!

      Yes it will be.

        Quote  Reply

    146. No offense to Joe Dempsie, but is Michael Fassbender playing Gendry now? The resemblance is remarkable.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Tyrion is one of the most intelligent men in the 7Ks. He knew exactly what wildfire was capable of. Sure, he was shocked by the enormity of what he saw, but he was by no means ignorant to the power of wildfire.

      cuddlycrow: Tyrion didn’t know really what to expect. At least, he was horrified by what wildfire did. Dany HAD a choice, but decide to be evil. pure and simple.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Loved Arya calling Sansa out, games of faces indeed

      Reckon Sansa may have trouble giving up power…

      Just creamed my pants at epic Gilly spoiler !!!!!!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    149. That episode could have been a disaster on paper, but damned if they didn’t pull it off. Not an all-time great, but not bad either.

      Hyped as hell for next week!

        Quote  Reply

    150. Apollo:
      Tyrion is one of the most intelligent men in the 7Ks. He knew exactly what wildfire was capable of. Sure, he was shocked by the enormity of what he saw, but he was by no meansignorant to the power of wildfire.

      Apollo, can’t and won’t disagree with that reasoning. However, Dany had a choice not to burn and make a quick death or listen to Tyrion.

        Quote  Reply

    151. Ok I just want to say Dany and Jon seem really drawn to each other, I don’t mean sexually it’s like they know subconsciously they are family.

      It’s weird, but yeah they are really drawn to each other and I love it!

        Quote  Reply

    152. Farcical_Aquatic_Ceremony:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      I don’t know, but it made me hate Arya even more than I already do.

      I didn’t hate Arya, or even dislike until this season. All of the sudden, she is like a marvel character and serial killer attitude. I use to want her to live and now, if she gets offed won’t mind it as much.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Che:
      Just when you think Jaime is starting to see the light that Cersei is nuts, she hooks him back in. Jeez.

      Do you think Cercei is really pregnant????????

        Quote  Reply

    154. I’m not one to complain about the jumping locations, but honestly that episode gave even me whiplash, especially with how Tyrion moved around. When he was on the beach w/ Jorah, I thought they were leaving Dragonstone, not arriving at KL. Some good moments, but they obviously needed to move a lot of pieces around to get to the last two episodes. Kinda wish they had done this in two episodes instead of cramming it into one. I’ll have to watch it again, but this might’ve been my least favorite ep of the season, so far.

        Quote  Reply

    155. That book about “annulment” was the one Sam gave to lil Sam? SO the book is with the rest of their things in the carriage?

        Quote  Reply

    156. We finally have a plot development more stupid than Arya surviving multiple abdominal wounds.

      Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

        Quote  Reply

    157. Grayven Reyne:
      We finally have a plot development more stupid than Arya surviving multiple abdominal wounds.

      Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

      They weren’t even out of breath… No One part 2

      Jamie did foreshadow in the Spoils of Wars that somethings could be harder to believe than Cercei ruling the Seven Kingdoms in peace… and floating Jamie fullfills that foreshadow.

        Quote  Reply

    158. Hodors Bastard:
      I was shouting at Sam when he interrupted Gilly. “Goddammit Sam, listen to her, idiot!”

      dothrakian raven:
      That book about “annulment” was the one Sam gave to lil Sam? SO the book is with the rest of their things in the cart?

      Yes, I was shouting, too. And yes, I hope it’s in that cart.
      So Sam doesn’t know that his father and brother are dead? He has to find out when he arrives at WF or wherever he is headed.

      I think that I’m done with Jaime. If he hasn’t grown a pair by now, he never will.

      Welcome back, Joe Dempsie.

        Quote  Reply

    159. Wow this was such a good set up episode. I didn’t see next weeks preview but I’m so friggin hyped!!!!!
      Jon and drogon and Dany is every thing
      JON WASNT A BASTARD
      Littlefinger setting up a fake scroll – dieeeeeeeeee Im so worried

        Quote  Reply

    160. Stunned … and finally they addressed the fact that the all hate each other so much for their past deeds … can only imagine what Dany meeting Cersie will be like

        Quote  Reply

    161. Oh God! This episode left me on the verge of a cardiac arrest!!
      What’s going to happen between Arya, Sansa and Littlefinger
      What’s going to happen with the band of crazy guys who went north
      Daeny fried Samwell’s family….
      Sam left the Citadel with all the important books, including the one he gave baby Sam to play with… NOOO….
      And Jon IS the actual king of the freaking Westerosi world… There was a annulment of Rhaegar’s marriage to Elia Martel… That can only mean he married Lyanna.
      Gendry is back!!!! and they incorporated rowing joke…
      Jon touched Drogon and Drogon didn’t fry him…

        Quote  Reply

    162. Nothing else about the episode even matters. It was all good, but the only thing I can even think about right now?

      They almost revealed that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married and Jon is a trueborn Targaryen!!!!! Aaaaahhhhh!!!!!!

      *dies from seven heart attacks*

      *resurrects self*

      *dies from seven heart attacks again*

        Quote  Reply

    163. Ginevra:
      The Sansa Raven that LF setup for Arya to find.Is it real?What does it say?

      Is it not the scroll that Sansa sent to Winterfell after Ned was executed?

        Quote  Reply

    164. Dee Stark:
      Ginevra,

      You caught all that? I didn’t catch anything except Sansa signature

      I went to HBO Go for that and for what Arya said to Sansa earlier and for what Gilly said, which is the fucking best part of the whole episode. I’ll quote her in a second. Here is the screenshot of the Sansa raven, which I think is legit but written when she was still a hostage – so duh.

      https://www.dropbox.com/s/5uc0hyaxicxhe5g/SansaRaven.png?dl=0

        Quote  Reply

    165. Ginevra,

      It’s the note that Sansa wrote to Robb at Cersei’s urging in Season 1 asking him to come to King’s Landing and bend the knee to Joffrey. Littlefinger is counting on that to further turn Arya against Sansa, although she’d have to be a complete idiot to think that she’d write something like that out of her own free will.

        Quote  Reply

    166. mariamb:
      Yes, I was shouting, too. And yes, I hope it’s in that cart.

      Of course it is. They didn’t show us that to let that hang in the wind. Sam’s got it with him; or at the least, Gilly or little Sam does. It’s in the cart.

        Quote  Reply

    167. So Sansa does want to be the Queen in the North and Arya felt it.

      I think it is natural for her to have that ambition, but LF will use it now.

        Quote  Reply

    168. Jack Bauer 24,

      I would have to go back to S1 for the exact wording, but it’s the message Sansa sent to Robb when Cersei urged her to write to him asking that her swear fealty to Joffery; this was when Ned was still in the KL dungeon, after being taken prisoner.
      Obviously LF is planting it to foment discord between Arya & Sansa by playing on the old prejudices of their childhoods.

        Quote  Reply

    169. Ginevra,

      Can somebody remind me did Cersei ask Sansa to send a raven to Robb at some point outlining Ned’s treason (perceived from the Lannister point-of-view) and asking him to bend the knee? Is this that message or is it some more elaborate forgery setup by Littlefinger?

        Quote  Reply

    170. The full text was:

      Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.

      Cersei (and by extension, Littlefinger) forced Sansa to write it.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Ravyn:
      I’m not one to complain about the jumping locations, but honestly that episode gave even me whiplash, especially with how Tyrion moved around. When he was on the beach w/ Jorah, I thought they were leaving Dragonstone, not arriving at KL. Some good moments, but they obviously needed to move a lot of pieces around to get to the last two episodes. Kinda wish they had done this in two episodes instead of cramming it into one. I’ll have to watch it again, but this might’ve been my least favorite ep of the season, so far.

      yeah I wonder if the story of going beyond the wall to capture a Wight walker is from GRRM books….

      Daenerys could fly her children to the Wall and torch the masses of Wights and be done with it.

      Who here thinks Cersie is really pregnant?

      or is Cercei making Jamie her _____!

        Quote  Reply

    172. mariamb,

      Speaking of this… Jon may have a small pecker (according to Tormund) but he definitely has a pair of balls!! Touching Drogon who just came from frying Lannisters and Tarlys!

        Quote  Reply

    173. RBloodworth:
      Ginevra,

      Littlefinger is counting on that to further turn Arya against Sansa, although she’d have to be a complete idiot to think that she’d write something like that out of her own free will.

      Yes, but Arya now knows that Sansa has desire to be QITN, so she will question her loyalty to Jon. And the Starks as well.

        Quote  Reply

    174. Loved that episode! So much going on and the pacing felt good (I was expecting it to end when Sam left the citadel). Having said that, it did feel a bit rushed at the end. I would have liked more conversation between that massive crew of characters that just got together, but I guess we’ll get that next week. I want some more conversation between Jorah and Jon about Jeor, as well as between Jon and the Hound about Arya and Sansa. Oh and between Jon and Gendry about Arya… and the Hound and Tormund about Brianne…. okay, it seems I want quite a lot…

      I can’t believe they delivered the bombshell of Rhaegar annulling his marriage to Elia and his marriage to “another” in like that. My heart was pounding. I really wanted Sam to double take and go “wait, what did you just say?”, but the fact that it’s been mentioned in this fashion guarantees it’ll be brought up again at a later date. Convenient placing of book in baby Sam’s lap is evidence of that much.

      Ahh! Excited and terrified for next week. I am so invested in so many of those characters going north and I am pretty scared about how many of them we are going to lose. This is GOT; there is no way they are all making it back.

        Quote  Reply

    175. Love Drogon’s purr. 🙂

      Wondering if Elia knew that her marriage had been annulled and her husband married to another woman.

        Quote  Reply

    176. So, the biggest part of the episode for me was the point where Gilly found proof of Jon’s fucking legitimacy!!!!!!!!!!!! Take that, the-bastard-is-really-a-secret-bastard theorists!

      Gilly, using closed-captioning:

      Maynard says here that he issued an annulment for Prince “Ragger”
      and remarried him to someone else at the same time in a secret ceremony in Dorne.

      Jon Targaryen!!!!! The Prince (not Bastard) That Was Promised!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    177. Grayven Reyne: Your new champion.. the Floating Knight, with the power of Amnesia!

      It was an uggh vs coolish episode for me. That first scene was so damn uggh.

      Once again, Bronn saves the day though. Yay, Bronn….lukewarmly… :/

        Quote  Reply

    178. firstone:

      Who here think Cersie is really pregnant?

      or is Cercei making Jamie her _____!

      It definitely crossed my mind immediately that Cersei could be making up the pregnancy to manipulate Jaime and keep him loyal to her.

        Quote  Reply

    179. Loved the episode, I have really enjoyed the whole season. Jon and Drogon was amazing. Only quip, with Bran being at Winterfell it takes some of the suspense away for me because I would just check with him on everything. He would tell Arya, no it’s a ruse. I know they don’t quite get his power, but you think Littlefinger might have caught on after last week. Anything he tries to use past events to try and create present animosity for, Bran would know. I way over think this show lol.

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    180. Dee Stark,

      You are understanding it wrong, Rhaegar got an annulment to be with Lynanna Stark before Jon Snow was even born.

      Robert’s Rebellion was a long war that started soon after Rheagar and Lyanna ran away, during that time he got the annulment and they were “proper” husband and wife.

      So basically Jon was NOT born a bastard and is the rightful king of Westeros.

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    181. Boojam,

      It’s the scroll Sansa wrote (under duress and at Cersei’s direction / dictation) when Ned was in custody for treason in Season One. Everyone at Winterfell dismissed it as ‘Cersei’s words’ (Arya was in King’s Landing) but without the appropriate context, it’s going to make Sansa look TERRIBLE to Arya.

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    182. Dee Stark:
      weirwoodtreehugger,

      OKAY QUESTION

      WHY would he need to get an annulment if she died..

      No clue. Since Targs frequently did polygamy, I wouldn’t think they’d need to. I’m not sure if the show ever established it though, so maybe that’s an adaptation change? I’m just more focused on the secret marriage bit!

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    183. Loved it but then again I love every episode lol.Jon and Drogon I’m dead!!Dany is probably dead too haha.Don’t worry girl I wouldn’t want to let him leave too.Gilly for MVP.Kit’s voice:We don’t know who this Ragger is.Can you believe the northern lords.LIke Jon is bending over backwards to save their asses and they can’t fucking wait two minutes.Do they want Jon to rock them to bed.He should have given them to Dany like yesterday.Let her Randyll Tarly them.Also I hear congrats are in order for Cersei and Jaime.I hope it’s not another Joffrey lmao.

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    184. How spoilery is the episode 6 promo? Did it not include a preview for the finale? Usually they have a “only 2 episodes left” promo

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    185. Yeah… I just what everyone in house Stark to get along.

      My guess is that Arya is an expert at reading faces, and lies, with her experience as a FM. With the exception of Littlefinger that is.

      Cue the Sansa haters bashing their keyboards…3…2…1…

      cuddlycrow: Agree. It just doesn’t feel right. The Sansa/Arya convo was too weird. All of the sudden Arya can read minds. Really?

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    186. Jack Bauer 24:
      What did the scroll Arya find say?

      From what I could tell it was the letter in Season 1 that Cersei and Varys and LF made her write to Robb after Ned was killed to come and bend the knee (which explains LF look)

      At the time Cat and Robb saw it as “Sansa’s handwriting, but the Queens words”

      It is awkward now though on two points
      1) Obviously Arya thinks it shows a pro-Joffrey bias on Sansa’s part even following Neds death which isn’t good for their relations
      2) It would be a political torpedo to any ambitions Sansa has to leadership in the North if it was revealed this was her sentiment at the same time the Northern Lords were declaring Robb King in the North because of “Southron sentiment”

      In this case it seems to be the show equivalent of Arya finding out that

      That in AGOT Sansa went and blabbed to Cersei about Neds plans

      It actually ties in very well thematically with Dany the Southron Queen attempting to get Jon to bend the knee

      Have to say loving the Winterfell intrigue, brings back the Games of Thrones machinations vibe in amidst all the climactic battles

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    187. Sunfyre: It definitely crossed my mind immediately that Cersei could be making up the pregnancy to manipulate Jaime and keep him loyal to her.

      But didn’t we hear Qyburn say something like “I could give you something for it?”
      Either morning sickness or she wants to end the pregnancy?

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    188. Sansa’s Knight:
      Stunned … and finally they addressed the fact that the all hate each other so much for their past deeds … can only imagine what Dany meeting Cersie will be like

      I like to see what would happen if Daenerys and Jamie Lannister found themselves in the same room

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    189. Dee Stark,

      Dee, please see my above comment.

      All the book readers theory’s are finally coming true!

      We all knew this and its great for the show to finally confirm it!

      Rhaegar and Lyanna were IN LOVE, like passionate love…
      Like Helen of Troy type shit!

      When they ran off, Rheagar did this to legitimize their children from the very start. They are nobles and smart and know how bloodlines work!

      Its so freaking awesome I am so happy!

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    190. Jon/Drogon scene was LIFE.. until Gilly spilled the beans about Prince “Raggar”..
      I have to watch it again just to actually watch the Mag 7 come together….its gonna be FUN watching those guys play off each other

      best line of the ep goes to (as usual) Ser davos “…thought you might still be rowing”

      the Daves love us.. they really do hehehe

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    191. Grayven Reyne:
      The full text was:

      Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark.

      Cersei (and by extension, Littlefinger) forced Sansa to write it.

      Thank you!

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    192. Ginevra,

      It’s some letter Sansa wrote to Robb to tell him to bend the knee to Joffrey when she was under the Lannisters’ control. It will make Arya hate Sansa for being weak.

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    193. Dee Stark,

      Elia was murdered (along with her 2 children) during the sack of KL a week or 2 after Rhegar was killed during the battle of the Trident. The annulment and remarriage would have taken place before or around the time Jon was conceived, which was appx a year before prior.

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    194. Dee Stark,

      Since we don’t know the exact yearly calendar in Westeros it’s a bit murky, but Rhaegar left Elia to elope with Lyanna long before hostilities began. Jon/Jaeherys/whatever his real name is, was conceived prior to the Battle on the Trident. After that was the Sack of Kings Landing and the rape and murder of Elia Martell

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    195. Arthur,

      It was inevitable they were going to fall for one another and this episode was the first time they seemed to have a deeper connection/chemistry (in my opinion). I think it’s a dramatic set-up for when they find out Jon is her nephew (legitimate too, ha!). I don’t know if they’d put their feelings for one another aside, but it’ll chuck a whole load of complications into who is the rightful heir and who needs to be bending the knee to whom. All that will be for season 8 though I imagine – I think Jon will find out about his real parents from Bran in episode 7 (his plot famous is so thick, there is no way he is dying next week north of the wall).

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    196. Che:
      Apollo,

      Burning alive as execution and burning as a weapon during battle are quite different. Dany needs to tread carefully if she is to avoid resurrecting her father’s reputation (burning people alive out of battle).

      The problem is she already did. Despite the situation is different (the Tarly’s betrayed the Tyrell’s), burning a father and son sounds too similar to how her dad killed the Starks (Rickard and Brandon) back in the day they came demanding to bring Lyanna home.

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    197. Jon snow is Azor Ahai!!!

      Which kind of sucks because Dany is going to have to smelt Light Bringer with her heart.

      And Jon and Dany are both going to have to die to save the kingdom.

      We are all going to cry so fucking hard!

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    198. Interesting things from this episode….

      1. if Annulments are allowed, then Jon Snow isn’t a bastard and is the true king of the 7 kingdoms.

      2. Gendry is back in play…. Who also has Targaryan blood in him (look it up, it’s true).

      3. The North has quickly assembled an unbelievable pack of great fighters. Besides the 7 going beyond the wall, Winterfell still has Arya & Brianna.

      I think this might have been my favorite episode of the season. Giant battles are great, but this episode had something special to it.

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    199. Dee Stark:
      Okay I am confused

      Which marriage did rhaeghar have annulés And WHAT was the secret ceremony

      lol

      Rhaegar has his marriage to Elia Martell (Doran and Oberyns sister) anulled in order to pave the way for him to marry Lyanna Stark

      This has massive repercussions because it means Jon is Rhaegar’s 3rd son, legitimate and the Targaryen heir to Westeros before Viserys and Daenarys – and there’s somewhat written evidence alongside the heavily implied evidence that “what is the best KG and the LC of the KG doing at the Tower of Joy” instead of getting killed or slashed up ala Ser Barristan Selmy at the Trident etc

      I theorised in the books Rhaegar had more than one wife which was a pseudo Targaryen custom at times

      Of course we tie in the early scene thematically with Randyll Tarly, Dany is Queen via conquest, and “breaking the wheel” also means breaking the rules of succession. Other side of that coin is the Northern Lords saying the put Jon Snow King, so there’s a degree of people choosing who they follow to lead

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    200. Che,

      Maybe it will be one of the gross montages this year. Sam finding out that Jon is Danny’s nephew, cut to them having sex.

        Quote  Reply

    201. Dee Stark,

      I believe Rhaegar knew abut the Prince that was promised prophecy and actually planned for it to be Jon so he did what he had to do to make all pieces fall into place. He wanted Jon to be the rightful heir.

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    202. Stimpy Stark:
      Loved the episode, I have really enjoyed the whole season. Jon and Drogon was amazing. Only quip, with Bran being at Winterfell it takes some of the suspense away for me because I would just check with him on everything. He would tell Arya, no it’s a ruse. I know they don’t quite get his power, but you think Littlefinger might have caught on after last week. Anything he tries to use past events to try and create present animosity for, Bran would know. I way over think this show lol.

      That’s actually been my one real problem with the season so far. Bran has to know what’s up. The “chaos is a ladder” callback made that clear enough. So why is he letting LF smarm around Winterfell? I can only hope he has reason to wait for a certain time to reveal it all. Obviously, an intra-Stark succession war would not do the living any favors in the war against the White Walkers, so even if he doesn’t feel an emotional connection to his family, he’s still got to help them and get rid of LF.

      I guess we’ll see. The show has been trying so hard to make it seem like the Starks will turn on each other, that I have to think they will actually unite and Littlefinger has finally fucked with the wrong people. Arya’s gonna kill him and Sansa will be all for it. I still believe it.

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    203. Dee Stark,

      Dee!Yes he annuled his marriage to Elia and married Lyanna and there is proof apparently.Yes even if they had two children.And yes Jon was born legitimate and is supposed to be king under a Targ rule.

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    204. Arthur,

      I think it’s kind of horrible that he would abandon his wife. But I was excited about it. I just wonder if it matters or if Jon will ever know.

      It’s making me think more about his destiny. I really didn’t expect a SoIF to be a traditional unknown identity hero epic. It keeps me guessing. Is it a bait and switch from GRRM? Does he want us to think that’s what gen is setting us up for so he can pull the rug out in the end?

      Whatever anyone else may think, I don’t think Jon wants that destiny. At least not just yet.

      Also I don’t like the stark sisters at each other’s throats. Calm down, Arya. Littlefinger is a sneaky C-nt.

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    205. This episode is taking me a while to process! So many things happened I have to admit I got a bit dizzy. I love this show but I think this is the episode that could have worked if it was split into 2 to let some things marinate and breathe a little. I’ll definitely need a rewatch.

      Anyway, Jon is legit!!!! 😃Can this be true??? 😃

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    206. It was a good episode but Hill is still the weakest writer on the show. I always feel like he needs few lines to better explain characters’ motivations.

      We needed more lines at that meeting at Dragnstone and more lines from Gendry to explain his motivation now.

      D&D and Cogman were able to sell things this season I thought were strange from the leaks, and Hill failed to completely sell something that made perfect sense to me, like for example white hunt.

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    207. The original Stargaryen,

      Yup. I can see them doing that. I have to say, prior to this episode I was totally on the “yeah, they’re both hot and don’t know they’re related, but seriously, aunt-nephew incest is not cool” train, but having seen the way Dany was staring at him today, I am starting to be swayed. I can’t believe I just wrote that!!!

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    208. I haven’t read any spoilers or leaks…. but I think it is pretty obvious that Littlefinger dies soon. He has no further purpose to the story. Plus, in the trailer Sansa says something about how the “pack survives”. I’d imagine she says it to Littlefinger who is dying at the hands of Sansa, Arya, or Tarth.

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    209. UnfortunTely, my reaction to this episode was:

      Dany kills DICKON UGHHHH

      Jaime escapes UGHHHH

      Jorah and Gendry back only to go and die UGHHH

      Sansa vs Arya UGHHHHH

      Cersei “pregnant” manipulates Jaime UGHHHHHHH

      I mean it was sill good TV but Now I just feel very tense UGHHHHHHHH

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    210. firstone: I like to see what would happen if Daenerys and Jamie Lannister found themselves in the same room

      They should start making out I would pay to watch that

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    211. I know some won’t like it but I love that Littlefinger’s (final?) effort at manipulation isn’t between different Houses but between and among the Stark’s themselves. It’s using his talents as a character to lay bare the conflicts within the Stark family. The tension that arises from Jon, a “bastard”, being named KITN vs. Sansa. The longstanding sisterly rivalry between Arya and Sansa. The loyalty and affection of Arya for Jon and vice-versa.

      It’s kind of perfect to use Littlefinger in this way. Feels like everything, all those pre-existing conflicts between the Stark siblings, are now coming full circle. Honestly reminds me of The Godfather in how emotionally loaded it all is within this one family.

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    212. — We’re all on the same side.
      — How can we be?
      — We’re breathing.
      — But Cersi’s wino breath is more powerful than dragon glass.
      — Yes, it has the power of ten fire-breathing dragon’s breaths, but we have to have faith in our cause because winter is here…
      — Got any wine?
      — Oh shutup, Hound.
      — Got any chickens then? I could eat all the chickens.
      — With all due respect, Ser Davos, nobody asked you.
      — But I like chicken!
      — There’s a larger war to fight than over poultry.
      — I’m just saying the Hound is right. Chickens first, then fighting.
      — Dude, you’ve been hanging out with Tormund too long.
      — Can we at least share a jug of sour goat’s milk?
      — Oh, alright. Geez, you people…

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    213. GhostCR</strong
      GhostCR,

      I think you’re right there. I think when/if Jon finds out (or Sam finds out and then challenges Jon), it’ll cause friction too. I really wish she hadn’t done that. Dany still has so much to learn; she really needs to listen to Tyrion a bit more sometimes.

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    214. weirwoodtreehugger,

      Who was there to actually confirm that? Am I missing something or does the it even matter whether Jon was legitimized or a bastard!

      He has no right to rule anything as the Baratheon’s crushed the Targaryen dynasty and took charge.

      People take control in this world depending on the power and resources they have, not birthright.

      The Targaryen’s ruled for so long because they had all the power, even after the dragons were long gone. But there were still a multitude of rebellions.

      I always felt Jon’s lineage was more about the magical and historic elements of his bloodline (fire and ice), than some political drama of rightful heir n shit.

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    215. stefan666:
      If there ever was fanservice in this show it is Gendry returning lmao.

      What did the red witch say to him as they passed King’s Landing on the boat?

      “You are more then they could ever be. They are just foot soldiers in the great war. You will make kings rise and fall. ”

      Gendry has dragon’s blood in him too. His Great Grandmother was a Targ.

      The dragon always has “3 heads”. Dany, Jon, & Gendry.

      Fan service? BWAHAHAHA

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    216. Damn it, Cersei. Still manipulating Jaime after all this time. What’s the one thing Jaime’s always wanted? To love Cersei openly and acknowledge his children. Now she’s “giving” him that. Dollars to donuts, she’s NOT pregnant and Jaime will find out. Leading to a certain prophecy, perhaps? Whatever, I just need her dead.

      Jon and Drogon? Gilly and the book?! They are just dropping the anvils with regard to Jon this year, aren’t they? Not that it’s a complaint after so many years of speculation! Could someone please TELL Jon already? And I need to see Dany’s face when she finds out that her nephew is alive and well! He, he. I swear when Gilly said the word annulment, I almost dropped my phone! That’s not something many people were speculating!

      Can Littlefinger just die already?!

      Also here for the Jon/Gendry bromance!

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    217. GhostCR: The problem is she already did. Despite the situation is different (the Tarly’s betrayed the Tyrell’s), burning a father and son sounds too similar to how her dad killed the Starks (Rickard and Brandon) back in the day they came demanding to bring Lyanna home.

      Yeah the Dothraki and Drogo(n) invasion and bend the knee or go up in flames in the “illegitimate” side to Dany and even goes to show that Roberts concerns in Season 1 was legitimate

      And kinda shows that Cersei’s points when making overtures to the Reach Lords had some validity

      Other side as we know is the whole Mhysa and Breaker of Chains thing, and in the case of Ser Jorah

      Interesting is religion, under Cersei her illegitimate side is there is no religion since the Sept went up in flames and Ser Gregor is an abomination that besmirches the hallowed institution of the Kingsguard to boot, which isn’t great for a society

      Dany though is legitimised by religion, whether it is Red Priests and the PtwP and in terms of the Dothraki Dany was the one who DIDN’T go up in flames hence they follow her

      As for Jon, well he was chosen but isn’t seen to be there ruling in the North while important preparations are being made. And of course as leader of the Watch he was perceived to have betrayed it

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    218. I’m so pleased that Jon pet a dragon. That’s got to be why Dany trusted him enough to let him go. He’s Drogon approved. Part of me hoped that Rhaegal would’ve taken off and joined Jon on his journey north. Because I think he’s Jon’s dragon, the one that he’ll eventually ride.

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    219. Dee Stark:
      shortstack,

      But why would he get the annulment ??? To protect her?

      Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so he could marry Lyanna Mormont (as Gilly said in the episode that he immediately married another) to make Jon legit.

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    220. Casso: The funny thing is that I recently (in a thread about getting gold from Highgarden to King’s Landing in a fortnight) estimated that show!Westeros is about 2/3 scale of book!Westeros based on Roose Bolton’s statements about the size of the North (when legitimizing Ramsay).If that’s the case, then the guards at Winterfell telling Arya that Jon Snow was “a thousand miles” away were almost exactly literally correct.

      In Season 1 it was a thousand leagues from KL to the wall (3500 miles from two different sources). This season it is only 1000 miles from DS to WF from two different sources.

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    221. Jon and drogon ❤️❤️❤️❤️

      Jon and Dany….. I honestly felt Emilia’s emotions when she felt that Jon was saying he wanted to leave… amazing…. and the way she looked at him when he touched drogon.

      I’m so happy… they have a connection and I don’t feel it like sexual..

      Also.. I’m so over Jamie I cannot wait till he dies

      The crew at the end was life

      This needs a major rewatch because so much dialogue

      My heart breaks for what’s happening at winterfell. I’m so worried.

      I loved it and so nervous

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    222. Teleportation really was ridiculous this episode haha

      Can understand though because there are only 7 eps and the plot needs to move forward

      ROFL how did Tyrion get back almost as quick as Dany to Dragonstone

      LOL how the heck did they get from KL to Eastwatch so quick (really tripped out when they showed it on the opening credits, I guess that stands for the Night’s King lol)

      Ooh nearly forgot to mention, a nice little highlight of the episode for me funnily enough was Ser Davos making the good creative effort to avoid violence….but I guess we had to get our display of how Gendry knows how to use the Warhammer

      Was wondering if the topic of Gendry knowing how to smith Dragonglass would come up tbh

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    223. Who else got a ‘Dirty Dozen’ vibe as Jon, Tormund, Gendry, Jorah, Beric, Thoros and The Hound march out beyond The Wall?

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    224. Arthur:
      Ginevra,

      YES YES YES!!!

      You see how Dany looks at him?It is like she can’t breath lol…She is super powerfully drawn to Jon, itsnuts!

      I was more interested in how Drogon was drawn to Jon. I ship it! (No, not really. I want Jon to get a dragon of his own. #wakedragonsfromstone)

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    225. “Eastwatch” will most likely inevitably be labeled a piecemover episode by those expecting blood and action, especially after last week. But I loved every second of it!

      Jon. Tormund. Jorah. Beric. Thoros. GENDRY. Sandor. I’ll follow that crew into battle and frozen hell every day of the year! Last heroes, one and all.

      The looks that Dany was giving Jon in this episode are accelerating my unabashed descent into a full-blown Jonerys shipper. I’m aware of where I currently stand. I refuse to apologize.

      Seeing Jaime and Tyrion interact again was fantastic. The reveal that Cersei is pregnant with Jaime’s child is an interesting complication. I’m eager to see where it goes.

      And Gilly! My girl Gilly! Sam may not have heard that bombshell you dropped, but I did. A wildling woman that everyone overlooks is responsible for perhaps the most critical reveal in the show’s history. Shireen’s lessons paid off!

      One final note: seeing Eastwatch-by-the-Sea in the opening credits was an awesome surprise. I didn’t think we would.

      I’m looking forward to watching the episode again in half an hour.

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    226. Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

      GENDRY … third dragon rider?

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    227. Overall, a pretty good episode. Not great but pretty good indeed. A lot of setup so next week promises a lot of excitement !

      Daenerys : I am fine with her invading all she wants but can she please be coherent and stop calling herself “breaker of chains” ? In Westeros, she is nobody’s favourite option, no one’s chosen queen. She is not breaking any chain so this label is not just inappropriate but also downright hypocritical !
      RIP Dickon and Daddy Tarly. They did not deserve their fate and faced their death bravely. A very good move on the writers’ part to give Daenerys’s victims a face and name so as to highlight the consequences of the Breaker of Chains’s “liberation”.

      Jon : much better ! He is becoming a half-decent politician. I truly enjoyed his refusal to stay put and obey Daenerys’s orders. He argued well and asserted his position with clarity and intelligence. However, I am genuinely annoyed he did not advocate more forcefully ! He has the moral highground over his aunt and he should bloody well use it. The Targaryens owe the Starks three lives; Jon should ask for the dragons as payment. Bargain harder, especially after successfully petting one of the flying lizards !
      Sidenote : those Targaryen genes sure do come in handy ^^

      As for Jon’s decision to go beyond the Wall, while I understand it strategically, I cannot shake the notion that it is everything but what a king would do. A ruler owes it to his/her people to stick around, not fight on the frontline. As Tyrion said, a “smart one” knows not to play hero : there are other people for that.

      Cersei was strangely moving this episode. Her joy and defiance as a result of her pregnancy was a sight to behold. And bloody hell, she continues to be good at her job ! She keeps her temper under control and intends to think thoroughly before she acts. This is a truly interesting development for her character and emphasises how wrong her father was about her : her brashness was never an inherent quality in her, it was the consequence of decades of frustration and humiliation. Now liberated from the prison of the world’s expectations, she performs much better than anyone could have hoped. One question though : is she truly pregnant or is she faking to ensure Jaime’s loyalty after his encounter with Tyrion ? The former is more probable but I wouldn’t put the latter past dearest Cersei.
      Jaime’s continues his slow shift and I enjoy the finesse of his arc. The man who for most of his life ran away from responsibility of any sort, be it official or moral, discovered his desire to be involved in something bigger than himself through his interaction with Brienne and it has increasingly permeated everything in his existence, especially fatherhood. He nows wants to be held accountable, publicly acknowledged as responsible for someone.
      It may sound heretical to book purists but I find the Lannister twins infinitely more interesting on the show than in the novels !

      Tyrion : once again, one of the best narrative arcs. He is starting to notice his queen’s political shortcomings but struggles to accept them due to the position he granted her in his life. At long last, Peter Dinklage is being given to do and he fails to disappoint… Tyrion’s interaction with Varys was extremely well paced. His conversation with Jaime, while far too short enough for my liking, was equally satisfying. We saw glimpses of Tyrion’s ever-so-complicated relationship with his family and struggle with his own identity, both as a man and as a lion. Brilliantly done !

      Winterfell : Arya… I truly enjoyed the subtle parallel the writers introduced between her and Daenerys. The Mother of Dragons wants anyone who does not submit in whichever way she sees fit to be killed; the younger Stark sister now wishes for those who dare to even breathe a word against Jon to be punished… Very nicely done !
      It is also delightful to see the writers’ choice not to have the feuding sisters operate as a team (for now); their relationship is in a state of arrested development, stuck as it was six years ago, the resentment and opposition are still present and Arya’s passive aggressive behaviour is a testament to that. She believes the worst of her sister because she wants to believe it. And Littlefinger certainly intends to use this want of hers, because it is what he does best ^^

      The Northern Lords and Lord Royce are as predicted, namely headstrong and demanding. A cabal is organising and if Lyanna Mormont joins it, Jon’s reign is toast. I think it will all depend on whether the King in the North bends the knee or not and, unfortunately, I cannot shake the feeling that he will do just that eventually. He is a sentimental, he seems to “like” Daenerys (:P ) and, if he is really convinced that she is the salvation mankind needs, he will do as she asks which, given the reputation the Mother of Dragons must have by now (killing a father and his son like her dad once did to the Starks), can only lead to the North rejecting him…

      Gendry : is it wrong of me not to care one bit about him if not for Davos’s author-insert joke about his rowing prowesses ? ^^

      The Hound : yeah ! Short but sweet, and always cutting through the bull excrement.

      Sam : Westeros’s very own academic iconoclast, bless him ^^ Good on him to challenge the maesters’ authority and conservatism. However, it would be nice if he could pay attention to what Gilly reads to him 😉
      Sidenote : he still does not know that Daenerys killed his brother and father. If and when he finds out, I wonder how he will view his best friend’s association with the Mother of Dragons…

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    228. When Dany killed the Masters, she was liberating people from slavery and winning a war. Even though brutal, one could see the purpose and the logic.

      But I don’t see the same justification with the Tarlys. Sure they fought for the other side and wouldn’t “bend the knee”, but this was a classic case where taking prisoners of war was warranted. These men weren’t evil slavetraders nor did they “betray” her. Killing them in cold blood, after the battle had been won, is a signature of a Mad Queen, not a benevolent ruler.

      I mean, at least Sansa had a point with the houses that betrayed the Starks in the North. I’m guessing they’ll get along.

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    229. Holy…
      Just want to get that last bit out of the way. THAT is a video game I want to play-I swear.
      Next episode-Our all-star quest is on the way beyond the wall to face ice magic and they are all on fire
      Jon-Targaryen brought back (possibly) by lord of light=fire
      Beric-brought back by lord of light and previously known as the Lightning lord=fire
      Thoros-red priest=fire
      Gendry-Baratheon blood has some Targ in it, plus he’s a smith-master of the forge=fire
      Hound-burned by fire, leaves KL after wildfire battle and sees visions in the fire=fire,fire,fire
      Tormund-Wildling kissed by fire (red hair)
      Jorah Mormont-well he’s from Bear Island but he did witness the birth of dragons, watch them grow up etc. He definitely has a big passion for the mother of dragons.=spark/fire

      I think they picked the right people for this quest!

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    230. I was pretty sure that Sansa’s letter to Robb was the ravenscroll Littlefinger wanted. I hate that this episode confirmed it. He’s an absolute sh#& for ruining the Stark reunion, after all the heartbreaks they’ve suffered.

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    231. Golden hand the sister fooker,

      If it wasn’t important, it wouldn’t be part of the story. There’s something in the prophecy Rhaegar read that we don’t know yet that makes it matter, I guess.

      If Jon and Dany find out, it would complicate their fragile possible alliance too. Would Dany try to kill him to avoid a possible succession conflict? Would they enter a political marriage to unite north and south? If it became common knowledge, it could cause the northerners to turn on him. It also has an impact on Jon’s character. Being a bastard has informed so many of the choices Jon has made and how he sees himself. He seems like the kind of person who doesn’t want to rule, just has it thrust on him. Will that change when he finds out who he is? Will he start to want power? He was always jealous of Robb and his status. There’s no way he won’t derive some sort of satisfaction in finding out that he was higher status all along.

      There are so, so many exciting implications regarding this.

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    232. stefan666:
      If there ever was fanservice in this show it is Gendry returning lmao.

      Tbf I think there is a point to it, eg he can be legitimised by Dany and used to bring the Stormlands and their Lords back into play…and so we may see Baratheon soldiers again…

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    233. rhymeswithweak:
      Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

      GENDRY … third dragon rider?

      It also shows what a dick Rheagar is to Elia, who just gave birth to Aegon.

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    234. Ginevra: Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia Martell so he could marry Lyanna Mormont (as Gilly said in the episode that he immediately married another) to make Jon legit.

      Just did a double take! Think you meant Lyanna Stark 🙂

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    235. BobDole: It also shows what a dick Rheagar is to Elia, who just gave birth to Aegon.

      Which helps explains Oberyns attitude in S5E1 when talking to Tyrion

      Don’t think Oberyn would have liked Jon

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    236. If Gendry was experiencing divine intervention, what are the chances he got his hands on dragonglass and just happened to integrate it into his war hammer?
      I didn’t think of this till my partner, who isn’t nearly as into the show as I am, brought it up. I was so proud 🙂 I was outdone in GoT speculation outside of WotW.

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    237. rhymeswithweak:
      Finally… been waiting so long for confirmation that Rhaegar and Lyanna were in love and got married. Love not confirmed I guess but more likely now.

      GENDRY … third dragon rider?

      I thought the books confirmed Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage?

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    238. This episode is taking me a while to process! So many things happened I have to admit I got a bit dizzy. I love this show but I think this is the episode that could have worked if it was split into 2 to let some things marinate and breathe a little. I’ll definitely need a rewatch.

      Anyway, Jon is legit!!!! 😃Can this be true??? 😃 And Jon and Drogon like each other. Aww. 😍

      And I haven’t even started processing Gendry’s return yet. What a surprise!!! Oh my.

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    239. weirwoodtreehugger,

      If Jon and Dany find out, it would complicate their fragile possible alliance too. Would Dany try to kill him to avoid a possible succession conflict?

      Hello weirwood,

      I truly believe Jon and Dany are going to meet with Bran. Bran is going to do some crazy three-eyed raven shit, take them by the hands and make them see.

      Bran is the key here, in regards to showing Jon and Dany that they are blood.

      He is the only way to show them so they both believe and work together as family.

      At least in my opinion, he can share his visions with them, bring them both to tears and unite them in their sacrifice to save Westeros.

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    240. THANK YOU JEEBUS FOR HAVING LF SHOW HIS GAME!!! Awesome.

      “Dear Robb,
      Dad’s a traitor, lolz, my poor Joffrey.
      Sansaaaa”

      Arya will figure out his game. But hey, maybe she’ll take out Sansa first. 😉

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    241. Che: I really wanted Sam to double take and go “wait, what did you just say?”, but the fact that it’s been mentioned in this fashion guarantees it’ll be brought up again at a later date.

      I almost cheered, but then I was like: “Wait a minute – what would make him think any special about that?” We only react beacuse we’ve shared Bran’s vision, but Sam has no reason to think Rhaegar-stories are important information, does he?

      So nice with a little non-fighting episode amd still it was very entertaining with a lot going on. Holy s…?

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    242. RG,

      Your post just blew my mind. It all happened so fast didn’t have time for this to sink in, the symbolic significance of each individual character.

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    243. Well Gilly thought Jon was a king since A Clash of Kings so this is cool.I mean it doesn’t even matter if Jon bends to Dany.He is a Targaryen.He can’t hold the north as an independent kingdom anyway.Rip lol.I mean there is an obvious solution to their problems anyway.I am sure they will figure it out eventually.Arya’s loyalty to Jon are what dreams are made of and I’m literally gonna die when they reunite.

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    244. Arthur,

      Yeah. In most other stories, it would end with Jon and Dany married and living happily ever after with his and hers Iron Thrones. But one or both of them having to die to save the world is entirely plausible in this one.

      To me, a happy ending would just mean a Stark – any Stark – in Winterfell. Certainly not expecting the fairy tale ending!

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    245. Jack Bauer 24: I thought the books confirmed Rhaegar and Lyanna marriage?

      No, the books never confirmed anything. Lyanna was purportedly kidnapped by Rhaegar, which started the war. We knew, “Promise me, Ned,” but not what he promised her beyond the fact that it made him sick for the rest of his life. We knew the kingsguard were present when Ned found her at the Tower of Joy and that she died in a bed of blood and roses. And that was about it.

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    246. IJS: I called Jaime and Bronn escaping…. I would have liked a moment or two of confusion (charred horses, etc) where Tyrion would have to deal (for a moment with his brother’s apparent “death”) …

      But the season rolls on quickly….

      Looks like Jon Targaryen (he is legitimately a Targ now!!) has a team of “superfriends” to take beyond the wall!!

      Who will survive?!

      Will Gendry live on to become head of House Baratheon?

      Will Tormund live on to love Brianne?

      Will Beric Dondarrian live on to pass on Dawn?

      Will the Hound live on to fight in Clegane Bowl or reunite with Arya?

      Will Thoros of Myr live on for one more drink?

      Will Jorah live on to be forever in the “friend zone” with his Khalessi?!

      And as an aside: Will Sam take on being Lord Tarly?

      Stay tuned, True Believers… Same Dragon time… Same Dragon channel!!

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