Case of the Monday blues? Too many days left until a new Game of Thrones episode getting you down? The state of global affairs too overwhelming and you just can’t even? Surely, you must have devoured Sue’s More Sullied recap and Oz‘s Less Sullied recap? Then why stop there? What are you waiting for? Stop thinking thoughts about the episode! Let others continue to think about the episode FOR you! What did the critics think this week? Read on…
Alan Sepinwall, UPROXX – In which he is convinced the villains are way more fun to watch right now because they’re having so much fun on screen.
Alex Mullane, Digital Spy – In which he talks about the narrative focus on a nationwide war, rather than a series of smaller, contained battles.
Alicia Lutes, Nerdist – In which she positively loves how women-centric the show has become.
Alyssa Rosenberg, The Washington Post – In which she claims she will be very mad if the White Walkers don’t have greyscale, because otherwise this storyline will be a “gross and frustrating diversion.” Meanwhile, I prepare to go to war to defend Ser Jorah Mormont of Bear Island, the show’s most heroic and my favorite character.
Andrew Snell, Mirror – In which he pines over Dany’s mistakes, and wishes she would become a proper ruler before losing everything.
Bennett Madison, Vanity Fair – In which he can’t wait for Daenerys and Jon to “team up in a nude way.”
Dave Gonzales, Thrillist – In which he picks up on a forgotten, possible (though improbable) Tyrell heir who may yet live.
David Crow, Den of Geek – In which he thinks that Davos should be (understandably) more mad at Tyrion, considering his only son, Matthos, perished at the Battle of the Blackwater
David Malitz, The Washington Post – In which he welcomes the bits of humor peppered throughout the episode.
David Rosenblatt, SquintyOverAnalyzesThings – In which I (that’s right) explore how characters either overcame or succumbed to their previous mistakes.
Emmett Booth, Deadspin – In which he enjoys the tremendous work being done to have all of the characters’ personal histories interact and flow with one another.
James Hibberd, Entertainment Weekly – In which he commends Indira Varma (Ellaria Sand) for her sensational, yet utterly dialogue-less final performance.
Jen Chaney, Vulture – In which she is happy to see the narrative promise of GOT follow through in big ways.
Josh Wigler, Hollywood Reporter – In which he acknowledges that there were so many big event moments in this one hour of TV!
Kaitlyn Tiffany, The Verge – In which she calls out terrible-military-tactician Tyrion Lannister for his many mistakes.
Kim Renfro – Business Insider – In which she continues to churn out more Game of Thrones articles in 3 hours than most writers do in 3 years.
Laura Hudson, WIRED – In which she examines how pain, trauma, and sexism all intertwine to shape who people are.
Laura Stone, Hey Don’t Judge Me – In which she accidentally, through voodoo magic, condemns Theon Greyjoy to a life of [more] torture and [more] misery.
Lauren Sarner, Inverse – In which she discusses Jon’s and Dany’s similar leadership styles, despite their differences.
Melanie McFarland, Salon – In which she acknowledges that characters who get too caught up in their own prose-filled dialogue, ultimately succumb to the ‘brittle bricks and mortar of history.’
Mike Bloom, Salon – In which Westeros World News (™) covers the week’s happenings, complete with obits galore.
Myles McNutt, The A.V. Club – In which he finds the new breakneck speed of pacing “equal parts alarming and refreshing.”
Neil Miller, Film School Rejects – In which he longs for a time when characters traveled more slowly, and more in accordance with the pacing of the book.
Nina Shen Rastogi, Vulture – In which she “found the hour a little damp and mumbly.”
Rob Bricken, io9 – In which he speculates that anticipation may be the ultimate excitement-killer and that his hopes were a little dashed.
Sarah Hughes, The Guardian – In which she gives Cersei credit where credit is due for outsmarting her baby brother, whom she knew always wanted Casterly Rock, and would direct an attack at it.
Sean T. Collins, Rolling Stone – In which he observes the different ways in which characters handle revenge, or the ways that the writers spin them.
Sonia Saraiya, Variety – In which she believes that the episode continues the season’s trends of having a “place-setting quality to it.”
TK, Pajiba – In which he felt the episode rang “strangely hollow” and “not a terribly interesting one.”
I must say I’m very surprised with the number of critics who thought the episode seemed more slowly paced, or a ‘placesetter.’ I thought it was riveting from beginning to end, and one of the series’ bests (but of course you knew this, as you surely read my review!)
Whose reviews did you love/hate, with all due respect of course, and as always?
hodor?
Hodor!
IMDB
E1 – 8,7
E2 – 9,1
E3 – 9,5
mau,
I saw that
I am so happy
I think E3 deserves more than 9.5… but whatever
I really wonder if episodes from this season can surpass my top episodes on my ranklist. So far, it gets better and better and I already have a S7 episode among my 10-rated ones (rank 12).
Even one of my fellow LFU admins really enjoyed this episode and she labeled GoT as “without heart and soul” on several occassions before (much to my annoyment). If I quote her comment in the group: I actually loved (I know, surprise) the Dany and Jon meeting. It seems so fated. Both of their story arcs seemed more on the fringe and now they are finally joining. We’ll see what happens, but the actors share a nice chemistry. To me, Cersei is evil. I found her sympathetic at one point. But, what she did to Estrella’s daughter was heinous. FYI- I also never approved of Myrcella’s murder. The scene with Estrella and her daughter was tragic.
Digitalspy really nicely sums up how I feel about the end of the episode:
“Not only do we visit Casterly Rock, but we get our first look at the Tyrell stronghold of Highgarden, where Olenna looks out over the sprawling Lannister army that’s come to seal the end of her House as the Reins of Castamere theme plays out. The bait-and-switch from Tyrion’s impressive manoeuvring to Jaime’s even better play is brilliantly executed, and turns the former from triumphant to tragic in mere moments. Daenerys is losing this war, and badly.
And a final salute to Dame Diana Rigg, whose acerbic performance made Olenna one of the show’s greatest ever characters, and who managed to get the last laugh even as she was drinking the poison that would end her life. All that, and our first glimpse of Bronn in what felt like forever! The war may be going badly for Dany, but it’s making for some fantastic television for us.”
Fantastic sequence to end a fantastic episode.
It was a phenomenal episode.
Although I’ve never seen a TV show that reviewers and fans seem so intent on picking apart and nitpicking before (myself included).
Neil Miller is such a boring book purist, every collumn puts me straight to sleep. God I wish he would just stop watching.
Imagine being such a total dumbass that you can’t grasp thr fact that more time is passing in episodes than just a day, that Jaime Lannister didnt get to Highgarden in “an afternoon”. The man should just stop writing. He wants the story to unfold at the EXACT SAME PACE that it’s unfolded for 60 fucking episodes.
If this weren’t such a popular show I guarantee you those reviews wouldnt be so joyless and nitpicky and generally worthless. These people dont even know what the words ‘place-setting” or ” throat-clearing” mean anymore. This was a very very key episode full of big moments. Most reviewers are just going through the motions of recapping, spouting meaningless buzzwords about a show they barely pay attention to.
I don’t know… I guess it has a lot to do that there are some books that exist and like one user said, popularity of the show could be a factor as well. But I know that my personal favorite show (which is already finished) gets an immense backlash from “casual fandom”.
mandela,
Joyless is definitely the word I would use to describe these reviews.
There is such a sense of cynicism and fatigue to them.
Whew, just saw it last night….
First off I am while disappointed that Jaime can’t convincingly say no to Cersei, I guess I can’t be too surprised… and him getting told so hard by the Queen of F’ing Thorns in The Best Death Scene since Viserys made up for it. *sigh* Also… so disgusting that Cersei got hot & bothered after murder/torture but I totally called that part. Also hey the twins have both now pushed past each others’ “no” so… um mutually consensual nonconsent I guess. Yuck. Which is the point I suppose.
Jon & Dany & Tyrion are the three heads of the dragon and I loved them all together and in pairs. So great.
I though Jon and Dany was satisfying and correct to both of their characters. Dany is imperious, Jon is inflexible, it makes sense they don’t immediately agree – They are both extremely stubborn. I don’t really think it’s clear Jon is in the right though – I don’t mean bend the knee, but his leadership style involves tunnel vision and a lack of creativity. I get his position but… think outside the box man – there’s more than one way to stop a WW invasion. Maybe by uniting Westeros first? Kind of wish someone had pointed that out.
Too bad Tyrion can’t manage to do anything right apparently. Dany has demonstrated in Slaver’s Bay with the defeats of all three slaver cities that she has excellent military instincts – honestly she should be the military leader while she lets Tyrion take care of the politics. Right now they seem to have it assbackwards (with Dany failing to politic and Tyrion failing to military).
Let’s see what else… WF… Sansa was great this episode. <3 I don't understand what LF is talking about that was basically word salad and no context… Sansa was looking at him like it was profound but maybe she was just as confused as I was lol – good for Bran to show up and break the chain of thought. Bran was highly creepy with the wedding night description – great concise writing to convey the changes to his character and personality.
Future…
Dany's forces will have a win soon. She will basicaly be like ,look Tyrion… it was useful to try your way so the audience knows I'd rather not be a monster, but eventually we have to get shit done so let's go do that. Also even though the budget couldn't afford me to be in every battle it's getting a littel contrived that I havent' even tried it yet. :p I think we will see the stuff from the preview with Jaime / field of fire. It could happen next episode but it might not be for 2 weeks…
I still think Cersei is going to hook up with Euron before the season's up. She is too smart to marry him of course – then she loses her power and creates an opening for him to murder the fuck out of her and steal the throne for himself. Given the preview shots with Jaime / FoF I imagine he will be captured by Dany's forces in that battle. Then Euron will move in. Cersei will still need someone to screw each time she tortures someone after all (ew).
HelloThere,
Well the show is sometimes too popular and powerful for its own good.
But it will be part of the history of television.
QueenofThrones,
I would like to see sex scene between Euron and Cersei. 😀
Haha, this is something that usually bothers me… bashing popular shows in order to put other TV show on a pedestal. GoT is my No.2 at the moment, but I keep defending it even when it comes to my personal favorite TV show. And I same do with all other favorite shows of mine.
Haha, I would more like to see Jaime’s face if he caught them in the act.
I think the biggest ‘spoil of war’ next week will be the capture of Jamie….and Drogon burning up all the Tyrell gold.
I find Jamie’s dismissal of the loss of Casterly Rock simple minded. If the Lannisters have such a large army are they gonna totally live in the field with no permeant base of operations? That could be moved to KL. Be almost all the army unhappy about not being able to go home again.
The show is worse than George about ignoring infrastructure. Castles don’t exit as pieces of architecture , they are centers of states. They are surrounded by lands villages ,towns , cities ….. homes of the population , 98 percent who don’t live in a castle. Can’t give all that up.
Jon also has an annoying habit of not saying things he really should say, such as why on earth didn’t he tell Dany that, “I’m not a Stark, I was not born to be KITN, I was made KITN by the Lords of the North, the second I bend the knee to you I cease being KITN and the North will cease to follow me, there is no point to me bending the knee, you gain nothing”
Casterly Rock wasn’t a rock. Can I point that out again please.
I’m starting to think Tyrion has finally entered douchebag status in my mind …
what purpose was there for taking Casterly Rock
Was it really about Danys conquest or was it just because he always wanted Casterly Rock.
He’s like 1 of those friends you trust who says hey this weekend lets go out to this other club I’ve always wanted to go to it’s really good you will love it… except the only reason he suggests going there is because he was never cool enough to get in and he’s hoping to get some sort of feeling of accomplishment when he gets in …. cross off his bucket list … especially when you look at the map of Westeros … Casterly Rock is all the way on the other side of the continent … kingslanding is the closest place to Dragonstone and miles away from Casterly Rock … so what was the point ??? Tyrion wanted to rub it in Cersies face? Whatever … I’ve always loved him but I think he’s still hung over from all that “I wanna die” drinking he did through season 5
Boojam,
Yes, for instance Westeros’s 3rd largest city and port, Lannisport is near Casterly Rock – just gonna give that up too?
OTOH the Lannisters are starting this war in a terrible strategic and tactical position- Dany had 3 dragons, the unsullied, the Dothroki, the Reach and Dorne.
The Lannisters had the Crownlands, the Westerlands and the Riverlands (until the Freys were decapitated) ?
The Lannisters now have the Crownlands, the Reach, most of the Westerlands, the Iron Islands, and a still intact Army and Navy.
They have essentially traded Casterly Rock for High Garden- but they now have 8,000 unsullied at the Rock- any they really can’t stay there- they are either gonna have to go out and march west, or star raiding Lannisport for supplies. Also as Tyrion noted, storming Casterly Rock would have been brutal- even with a reduced garrison defending the castle the unsullied should have taken massive casualties- but they didn’t do to Tyrion’s knowledge of the storm drains – so the effective unsullied fighting force now at Casterly rock is quite likely a bit larger than Jaime was planning on- large enough to possibly march through the Westerlands like Sherman through Georgia.
Also where’s all those critics and websites and what not that had a riot when cersie was raped/not raped in the Sept
JAIME WAS RAPED/NOT RAPED IN THIS EPISODE …HE SAID NO (can my font get any bigger for that NO)
Not 1 critic has said anything about that … oh it’s a guy it wasn’t rape I’m sure he wanted it I’m sure he enjoyed it it’s different for a man
It’s moments like these that make me hate the word equality cuz it’s a myth
Sansa’s Knight,
Casterly rock was for years the real seat of power in the realm.
And also, it was the main resource of wealth and gold to the crown.
The problem was, Cersei had the key information that the mines had run dry. Tywin only told her in confidence. that is why she was able to pull of the bait and Switch. She knew that highgarden was the real source of money now.
Had casterly rock still been as rich as Tyrion expected, his plan would’ve been perfect
jpwf,
he was so mum on the dragonglass for a long time. that was his main objective in going! C’mon Jon🙄
OT as poor as Tyrion’s plan has been, at least now Daeny has to team with Jon (god help me if he leaves before Daeny *knows* he’s her only ally left). I assume dorne is like that bugs bunny florida gif and no longer relevant.
I got a chuckle out of an anonymous (or I’d include attribution) comment I saw on a review thread, imagining a reunion conversation between Sansa, Arya and Bran:
Sansa: Who are you?
Bran: The Three-Eyed Raven.
Sansa: Who are you?
Arya: No one.
Sansa: Has everybody lost their minds?
Well, I thought it was amusing…
Ten Bears,
Right! for all the paths taken by stark children (including Jon), Sansa seems to be the most grounded imo.
I have read many of the reviews of Episode 3. All of them are feeling sorry for poor Sam set to work on recopying old manuscripts and scrolls as punishment. Wake up guys! I would bet the farm that Sam finds something very significant in those old scrolls.
Sansa’s Knight,
Cool your F’in jets… I saw several people mention the parallel with the sept scene, including myself and Laura Stone (only review I read from the above list TBH).
I honestly don’t think that we have ever seen them twincest in a clearly consensual/non angry way. The entire point of their “love” scenes is to demonstrate how fucked up their entire relationship is. No one, I hope, saw the scene last night as mutually consensual and loving… for god’s sake Cersei is there in the first place entirely because she got turned on by torturing two women physically and psychologically. And Jaime is drunk and says no. Yeah it’s fucked up, no shit.
Tycho Nestoris,
It’s getting pretty annoying how Jon continues to be painted as the fool. Him omitting the dragonglass in his convo with Dany and later wanting to leave without mentioning it at all was dumbfounding.
HelloThere,
Maybe it’s human nature to focus on and nitpick about the 1% of the show that misfires, without praising with equal fervor the 99% of the show that is awesome.
On a personal note…it rankles me when people say “D&D are hacks” or use the term “lazy writing.” Is there anyone out there capable of doing what Benioff, Weiss et al have accomplished over the last seven years ? If so, I’d like to know who they are.
I’ve got at least twenty GoT scenes on my Perpetual Rewatch List: TV shows and movie scenes I can watch over and over again and still enjoy.
Aside from GoT, only “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, “Freeway”, “Pride & Prejudice (2005) and “Star Trek: TNG” have more than five entries.
mandela,
He is insufferable. I used to listen to A Storm of Spoilers – a podcast he does with Joanna Robinson and Dave Gonzales – but I’ve had to stop specifically because of him (I can still get the opinions of other two via their written work). I find his criticisms breathtakingly inane – he nitpicks on the smallest and least interesting details, and yet completely glosses over or outright misses the narrative and emotional core of every scene worth talking about. The man never met an opportunity for intelligent analysis and substantive discourse that he couldn’t undercut with a stupid, unfunny joke. You have to be willfully unobservant to miss some of the things that he misses.
God forbid that the show not spoonfeed us the smallest logistical details like chronologically asynchronous storylines and the passage of travel time. God forbid that it trust its intelligent audience to use their cognitive abilities to put two and two together. It’s a necessary step at this point if this story is ever going to have an ending, and I would much rather that the show use its time to focus on incredible character-based interactions like the ones we saw in this episode between Jon and Dany, Cersei and Ellaria, and Jaime and Olenna. If the price for those scenes is jetpacks … well, I heart jetpacks. Jetpacks forever!
If people like Miller can’t wrap their minds around it, well … cut them loose. There’s a reason why Martin, for all his many virtues, got mired in the Meereenese Knot and hasn’t published a book in over six years, while the show has continued to move forward with new material every year and become more popular than ever. If Miller prefers the former, he’s a lost cause, and a poor ambassador for that cause at that. The critique itself has merit to it, but there are other people – including several on this website – who make the case for that position far more eloquently and cogently that he does. If I want to hear that case, I’ll listen to them instead. The days of extracting enjoyment or value from his opinions on this series are long gone.
Sean T. Collins (a big GOT/ASOIAF buff who created the Boiled Leather reading order and whose GOT reviews for Rolling Stone I always enjoy) gets it. https://twitter.com/theseantcollins/status/892081784321708036
HelloThere,
Agreed, on all points.
Joyce Sherman,
I would seriously take that over scrubbing crap-filled bedpans any day. But I bet you’re right and he does find something!
This was probably already posted…
Lady Olenna Tyrell didn’t tell Jamie that Littlefinger helped her poison Joffery…. but
In season 5 Lady Olenna Tyrell told Littlefinger that if any thing happens to her (Lady Olenna) that lots of people will find out all about Littlefingers participation in killing Joffery…
Hopefully D&D remember what Lady Olenna said
If (when) Jamie finds out Littlefinger helped kill Joffery the Lannister army might go towards the Vale.
I’m sure the post is coming shortly. The numbers for episode 3 were essentially even from ep. 2, down from 9.27 to 9.25. The last two seasons we’ve seen a similar “minuscule” drop between weeks 2 and 3. The last four seasons have risen from week 3 to 4 as well.
http://www.spoilertv.com/2017/08/final-adjusted-tv-ratings-for-saturday.html
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I dunno, a lot of people seemed to come away from that convo saying Dany was acting Childish and Jon reasonable. They must have hit a reasonable middle ground with the writing for people on both sides to feel their own person was villified. Personally I think the scene demonstrated maturity issues each of them has.
The thing about Jon is that he absolutely despises feeling as if he has to justify himself. And he always has a leg to stand on because indeed, his own point of view is usually quite correct. He gets quite surly and sullen if he has to explain himself which means he won’t bother to try. I mean the whole being murdered thing was the same – he didn’t feel he should have to convince anyone why letting the wildlings through the wall was good. Just saying it once should be enough. Unfortunately for Jon that is not how one wins allies over ot one’s side. Fortunately his actions speak more than his words, and he has wing man Davos to help get the words out when necessary.
Meanwhile Dany does not like it when people do not respond positively to her great magnanimous gestures in the way she expects and reacts with anger pretty quickly. But she can be quickly talked down by her own Hand. I hope that Jon will respond to her generosity in some useful way, given her current situation. But, we’ll see I guess.
Ten Bears,
Rotfl
Sansa: who are you
Jon: Aegon Targaryen
Sansa: henceforth I shall be known as Hermione Granger
Tyrion Pimpslap,
But Dragonglass is essentially worthless without allies. That’s Jon’s main purpose for traveling to Dragonstone: to multiply the anti-WW forces, hopefully with three fire-breathing dragons.
mandela,
I understand where you’re coming from. Last season the time differences didn’t bother me. It made sense that different plots were taking place on different schedules. What has happening in Kings Landing was different timeline than what was happening in the North and that’s okay. However, it’s not making sense this season because plot lines are intertwining and there is just no way that Euron attacked the Dornish/Ironborn, made it all the way back to King’s Landing, and then attacked the Unsullied at Casterly Rock because it seemed like the Dornish and the Unsullied left Dragonstone around the same time. They just couldn’t travel that fast. I understand they are trying to make Cersei’s reign more exciting and even but it just doesn’t ring true. I’m still enjoying the episodes but the the timing does seem a bit implausible.
What a well written and funny post! 🙂 kudos! The first paragraph made me laugh out loud.
Sansa’s Knight,
Ha ha! Even better. 😝
Ten Bears,
Dragons and allies are important. I don’t see how dragonglass is worthless w/o allies though. The north has very little of it or Valyrian Steel for its current amount of fighters. And it appeared Jon was willing to leave DS without even mentioning it.
OT does dragonglass/valyrian steel work on wights in the show or is it only fire?
jpwf,
All really interesting points that most likely won’t get played out on screen but most likely will in the books. The show is making me want the books even more! I’m so interested to see how George has certain plot points play out. I can see now why he’s having trouble. Parts of the show are feeling clunky because they are trying to bring so many important stories together. I’m enjoying it but I can’t wait to see how George pulls it together.
That is unquestionably my favorite Eastwood western. I can’t even guess how many times I’ve seen it. It’s one of those I always flip to when I see it in my guide. People seem to always want to mention The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, but for me the best has always been Josey… lookin’ through hard rock candy or not. 😉
megmo07,
Unless you want to have the showrunners waste time with “traveling scenes”, voice-over narration, or time-coding white lettering at the bottom of the screen (eg “Two weeks later”), just suspend your chronological disbelief a bit. It’s not worth agonizing over, or resorting to “jet pack” jokes.
As for Euron’s navy, doesn’t he have 1,000 ships or something ? If so …and if he’s a competent tactician, isn’t it likely he’s divided his navy into four or five fleets of 200-250 ships each to patrol different strategic waters? He himself could put on his “look at me, I’m a rock star!” show in KL, while his admirals lay waste to Dany’s ships in different places.
Clob,
Still going strong. I like it.
Ten Bears,
Varys himself said in the last episode that his ships are not in the same place.
Couldn’t edit last post…
Still early in the day for me, so I don’t remember the exact size of Eueon’s navy, but the point is that his ships are likely divided into several fleets with different assignments.
Honestly, I feel as though we have to allow the show to be ambiguous with timelines, in order for this story to be adaptable on screen… Which it was written for the purpose of being unadaptable.
I will read all the nitty gritty details when GRRM releases them.
I just want to see it play out visually with this terrific production and magnificent cast.
I can construct timelines in my head (tho they shouldn’t have had Cersei actually utter a real time length lol)
Game of Thrones is now entirely a TV show, and I think the narrative is flowing in a way that suits the medium best right now.
mau,
aahh i didn’t notice that. Good catch,
QueenofThrones,
So true. The way Jaime describes it to others makes it sound like a romance-but it’s never been one. She uses him and he calls it love, because she told him it was and it’s all he’s ever known. Did you notice that morning after was the first time he’d really smiled at her in years? He’s seeing something that isn’t there anymore-if it ever was.
P.S. is there any chance Bronn will tell Jaime about Cersei’s affair with Lancel? Other than Tyrion, I think he’s the only one alive on the show who knows. Clearly killing and torturing and burning people isn’t enough for him, but her being unfaithful (Robert didn’t count) when he never was might be enough.
*sigh* I wish Jaime could quit her.
Regarding Casterly Rock – As someone above mentioned, Tywin told Cersei the mines were dry in private, so Tyrion wouldn’t have known about that. Cersei would have told Jaime though, so it makes sense that Jaime would out-manoeuver him there (not to mention, Jaime is the better military strategist anyway). All the food and gold is in Highgarden now, so it’s currently the more valuable castle. And it’s not like Jaime is just giving up on Casterly Rock. As he said, the Unsullied’s ships are now destroyed, and since they emptied the larders, the Unsullied won’t be able to feed themselves and will have to abandon it.
As for Euron’s fleet reaching Casterly Rock so quickly – Maybe he wasn’t there. He could have left his flagship in the hands of a trusted Lieutenant while he went to King’s Landing with his “gift”.
I find his boasting of 1,000 ships rather “funny.” He himself doesn’t have the number of men for that to be scary if he beaches somewhere. I mean, we’re talking like 10 guys per ship. Daenerys shouldn’t even be fighting a naval war to begin with. The largest fleet was the Redwyne’s with just around 200 and that hasn’t even been mentioned on the show. Since he didn’t ferry anyone from Meereen having 1k ships now should be pointless, if not for forcing it to be a factor through writing. They should have (would have) known Euron was out there floating around and after them yet the two things Tyrion has done is send ships out.
RG,
Her being unfaithful as the reason for their break-up would be selfish at Jaime’s part and not interesting enough. It was forced in the books and it would be forced in the show.
People probably assume that Euron was at Casterly Rock because the Silence was there and Jaime told Olenna that Euron trapped the Unsullied by burning their ships. Euron himself wasn’t shown so it could be said that he wasn’t on his own ship, even if it’s unlikely.
QueenofThrones,
I actually enjoyed the scenes at Dragonstone and felt Jon and Dany’s reactions to each other were true to their characters. It’s just the whole dragonglass matter that bugged me. I could understand maybe not mentioning it in the first meeting, but not bringing it up to Tyrion until Tyrion had to remind him was what got me. Asking to mine dragonglass is something that was a reasonable request that would not effect Dany’s war effort in the least. Sam’s letter saying that there is a mountain of dragonglass on Dragonstone was what tipped the scales for Jon to decide to go and meet with Dany. So him glossing over that and seemingly being ready to leave without mentioning it did not seem plausible to me. Particularly given his single minded focus on the war against the WW and their army of the dead.
QueenofThrones,
Great points
Jon has always been defensive and not incredibly comfortable with or good at explaining himself-which might come from being a bastard with Cat as his mother figure-but he listens to reason, he always comes from a good place and he’s almost always completely in the right.
Dany has also always been defensive but she’s more vocal about it and a lot more confident-particularly since Viserys died and she hatched her dragons.
You can see it very clearly in their meeting. Like I said before-Dany isn’t sure what to do with Jon. Men have either wanted to worship her or kill her throughout the series. He doesn’t really fit into either category.
Jon, on the other hand is pretty used to strong women. Cat/Arya/Ygritte/Sansa/Lyanna Mormont 🙂
It should make for an interesting relationship.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I would agree, but the meeting was not over yet.
Varys interrupted it.
Plus, there are plenty of times in life when you have a speech planned, and a big list of things you want to say and ask… And then when you are on the spot in an awkward situation, it all goes to mush.
And Jon is not a natural talker.
Clob,
Well the Silence alone can travel faster than the whole fleet.
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I think he would have if she hadn’t flustered him with her “bend the knee” refrain. Which-fyi-not the best conversation starter with a potential new ally at your first meeting. She really needs to learn how to lead into things like that. Take a few minutes…offer him a tasty beverage. Something.
Shit, I wouldn’t be surprised if it could fly with those sweet sails. 😛
Tyrion Pimpslap,
I’ll have to watch again, but I don’t remember how or when the D.G. was first mentioned, just that Tyrion was the one to seal the deal. How did Tyrion know about it in the first place? Did Davos mention it in the throneroom in his defense of Jon speech (and if so, that would probably have been enough in jon’s mind)?
By the time the meeting was interrupted I think Jon had retreated into sullen petulance and Dany into firey petulance anyway… so really a break was needed.
I suppose episode 4 could spend an hour on the ramifications of all that. How all the common folk are effected by it all. Perhaps the negative reviewers would appreciate the detailed nuance of showing the real casualties of war: the people and their families.
Nah, probably not ^_^
No kidding! She really is awful at first impressions. She’s so bent on looking strong, stoic and stern when she’s on her throne. She hasn’t actually learned how to earn allies or allegiance through sweet talk. How about trying friendly first? She’s like a blind date that demands you to buy her a house right after you meet. 😛
Hahaha…. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe you really like Jaime. My favorite human character is Tyrion. 😀 And both Lannister brothers are really failing, and massively this season. 🙁 Jaime is just like the wife/girlfriend in an abusive relationship; the roles are so neatly reversed by now, including the B/J scene, that it’s not even funny. And Tyrion is so consumed with proving himself to be a worthy Lannister, and proving himself to his siblings, especially, that all his tactical and military instincts have gone out the window, including not asking WHY Varys is so ill-informed about happenings in Westeros. I find it incredible that Varys knew nothing about the empty coffers in Casterly Rock. Or did he? Hmmmm….
It was at the end of his conversation with Jon on the cliff. We don’t hear Jon ask for dragonglass though. We’re just suppose to know when Tyrion asked him if he has anything reasonable to ask of him. Then the scene switches to Daenerys saying, “Dragonglass,” to Tyrion to make it clear that’s what Jon asked for.
megmo07,
We dont know the exact location that Euron hit Yaras fleet. We also dont know the exact time that Grey Worms fleet left to hit Casterly Rock.
It really is impossible to dismiss the plot lines when we arent being given time stamps for every scene.
Does anyone think it took a day for Jon and Davos to get to Dragonstone from Winterfell? Of course not.
People do need to quit complaining about how fast things are happening. Its not all in real time. Its about moving the story forward, not showing real time movements.
This is accurate – ultimately he is responsible for not making the choice to leave however and the longer he stays the more culpable he is in what Cersei does. I understand the reluctance. He has invested 30 / 40 years of his life into this single relationship. He can always use the “you swear and you swear” excuse as to why he has to stick with his family but that’s ultimately an excuse.
I can see Jaime only having the scales lifted due to a selfish thing like knowing Cersei was unfaithful. It’s less narratively satisfying than Jaime growing as a man and realizing he doesn’t need Cersei – but on the other hand is more human and flawed.
Tyrion might tell Jaime about Lancel if he is captured. But IMO more likely that something would happen with Euron at this stage if they want to go the Jealousy route.
I’m not sure he knows about the Tyene/Elaria irony murder/ torture. He might just think they are rotting in the dungeons. Cersei is apparently still smart enough to know she should not tell Jaime about this kind of thing – she obviously didn’t tell him her plans about using wildfire which we know predate him going to riverrun. As for the sept he was clearly disturbed even though as you say it wasn’t “enough”.
You have summed up aunt and nephew perfectly!! 😀 Firstly, both are incredibly tunnel-visioned, and think their own agenda is the most urgent, the most worthy!
Jon has been the way you describe in Castle Black. He was showing some of the traits in Winterfell in the first episode wrt Sansa. By this episode, he was much better at Winterfell, in at least explaining some of his thoughts. I’ve noticed that people come to appreciate Jon after spending some time with him, and getting to know the person beneath the surface broody and taciturn manner, and then they remain extremely loyal – Sam, Davos, Tormund.
Daenerys expects everyone to know and laud all her achievements in Essos and accept her birthright, and she is very quick to anger. She is also tunnel-visioned wrt the 7 Kingdoms, just like Jon with his WW threat. Perhaps it is a family trait?? 😀
haha yes guilty as charged Jaime fan… honestly though I like him to be tortured/conflicted so much that if he changes entirely for the better I would probably be bored. I mean I would be happy for a little while but after that I’d kind of wish we were back to #badjaime
Great observation that Tyrion and Jaime were both failing. But in such opposite ways! Tyrion succeeded completely when it came to interpersonal matters, seeing to the heart of the situation with these two people, divining their good intentions and needs, and planting the seeds for a long term alliance. Jaime on the other hand completely failing to be able to see his sister is beyond help and his love for her is a convenient lie he tells himself, along with the lies about the enemy that it is convenient for him to believe (just as he found it convenient to believe for decades that Ned Stark willfully misunderstood the situation with Aerys). Then on the other hand, Tyrion believing he is being clever and strategic but in fact it’s Jaime that has the major advantage militarily…
I absolutely can’t wait for Jaime and Tyrion to reunite and have a damn conversation. At this point unfortunately I think it will be in a prison cell… Or possibly during a pre-battle chat like in BotB. I’m looking forward to some serious Lannister-bro shade being thrown in the latter case. :p
Clob,
Thanks, that makes sense.
I love this show, but they are not giving us clear information to some of the events that is happening. I feel like they are rushing through the season to get this series over with as if the ratings are so low that no one wants to watch it…..They are killing fan interest especially for people like I who follow this show religiously. All there is need is for a 12 second explanation to below list and thats it.
Who gets the Dreadfort?
Who gets Highgarden?
What has happened to Storms End’?
What has happened in Sunspear?
Where is Edmure Tully and his wife and child? Why wasn’t he rescued by aria? If danny needs more allies the riverlands is where shell find allies with Edmure and House Tully back in power to rally the riverlands, since the lannister army is so pread that it cannot control all regions.
House Tyrell Extinct(in the show)
House Baratheon Extinct(in the show)
House Martell extinct (in the show)
House Stark, soon to be extinct with no male heir
House targaryen soon to be extinct with no male heir(as of now)
House Arryn, one arrow to the heart away from going extinct
House Lannister, 2 male heirs from going extinct.
This show has become a “lets make everyone happy” show. “more dragons year kill kill kill yayyy dragons…..danny yayyy”
QueenofThrones,
Oh great observation with regards to the antiparallel nature of Jaime’s and Tyrion’s arcs this season. Tyrion indeed succeeded hugely, hugely in bridging the gaps in Jon’s and Daenerys’ interpersonal skills. Jaime succeeded in military tactics, including swaying the Tarlys to the crown.
Stark Loyalist,
You seriously want a scene where they list out and resolve a bunch of minor plot points involving succession??! In what way would that be organic or character driven or interesting in any way? What would it tell us about the story or where its going? How would it develop or illustrate anything about character?
Even in a book this sort of thing wouldn’t be verbalized – it would be part of character’s inner monolog, at best. So if you would like you could imagine Cersei or Jaime at a desk writing letters granting castles to people or whatever. Maybe that’s what Jaime was doing when he was half a bottle in and Cersei entered the room.
Edmure is one point upon which I agree it would be nice to have closure – I had thought he might be in Casterly Rock (Jaime alluded to his final destination being CR & he may have just been in the Frey dungeons temporarily) but apparently that whole sequence was just a way to get rid of Dany’s unsullied. A bit disappointed because I was hoping to spend more time in the Lannister sibs’ home and I enjoy Edmure. But maybe the actor was busy or something.
Stark Loyalist,
House Lannister in general has many lesser members, even in the show (Reginald Lannister in S2). Unless you mean the main branch only.
Clob,
1. “The Silence of the Lambs” and “The Outlaw Josey Wales” are probably the two best book-to-screen movie adaptations I’ve ever seen.
2. Clint Eastwood won an Oscar for “Unforgiven”, but that was just a cheap knockoff of “The Outlaw Josey Wales.”
3. A while back, I typed a post that got lost in the ether, comparing Jon Snow and Josey Wales and the common theme/definition of “courage”, eg in Jon Snow’s discussions with Tormund and then the Wildling chieftans: great warriors have the courage to set aside long-held enmities and make peace with enemies. It’s a theme Davos also touched on in his introduction of Jon Snow to Dany in S7e3 (along with Melisandre’s talking up Jon Snow to Dany in the previous episode).
4. It’s why I believe Jon Snow is the PWWP: he’s a uniter and conciliator. What mankind needs is not so much a great fighter or general (Stannis could’ve fit the bill if that were the job requirement), but an unselfish leader who puts the greater good ahead of titles, petty squabbles, and the endless cycle of revenge and retaliation. That’s much harder to accomplish than leading one’s people into war. (On the flip side, maybe Ellaria learned that lesson the hard way.)
5. There’s a classic speech in “The Outlaw Josey Wales” that could’ve been delivered by Jon Snow (with a few tweaks of course): Josey’s “Words of Life/Words of Death” speech, in which he starts off by telling the Cherokee chief: “I came here to die with you. Or live with you. Dying ain’t so hard for men like you and me, it’s living that’s hard….”*
(In a different context, when a bounty hunter looking for Josey Wales asserted “a man’s got to make a living somehow”, Josey responded: “Dyin’ ain’t much of a living.”)
6. In GoT, I think the real hero or heroes will be the one(s) who look at the big picture, put aside prejudices, and prioritize fighting together to survive over fighting each other for dominance or vengeance.
* I might reproduce the whole speech (covered with spoiler coding for those who haven’t seen the film); it’s not really off topic, because it really encapsulates the evolved character of Jon Snow: the battle-hardened warrior who’s ready to give a fair word or a fair fight to his adversaries – or get either one from them.
Stark Loyalist,
You should just read The World of Ice and Fire.
Stark Loyalist,
Answers to your questions:
Q: Who gets the Dreadfort?
A: Hot Pie
Q: Who gets Highgarden?
A: Whoever the Lannisters designate, assuming they maintain control over the Reach.
Q: What has happened to Storms End’?
A: It’s still there.
Q: What has happened in Sunspear?
A: The people are bummed out that the Dornish forces got ambushed while Ellaria was playing footsie with Yara, but otherwise Sunspear is still dominated by warmongers who preferred war with the Lannisters over peace preferred by the “weak” Prince Doran.
QueenofThrones,
YAAAS Queen
my girlll 🙂
awesome review
Stark Loyalist,
How is House Stark soon to be extinct when there are three members with the same amount of Stark genes that could potentially produce heirs? Sansa, Arya and Jon are all Starks. Jon may not be Ned’s biological son but he is Lyanna’s biological son, Ned and Lyanna came from the same set of parents so their bloodline is exactly the same. Jon is a Snow I know but he could easily become a Stark in name, given that he’s always been a Stark in the ways that matter most. And Sansa and Arya can both still produce Stark heirs, their kids not need be named after their fathers. After all it is rumored that the bastard son of Bael the Bard became the Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, despite his base born origin. He was after all the son of the only daughter of Winterfell. I suspect that at least one of the wolves will survive to see the Starks through, after all what is the North without its wolves?
I know it well. 🙂 If you haven’t seen it, that guy that played Ten Bears also played Crazy Horse in The White Buffalo with Bronson around the same time. He was awesome!
Regarding the line “dyin’ ain’t much of a livin’… I admit to being a Bon Jovi fan in the 80’s. He did the “Blaze of Glory” album with songs for Young Guns II with a song with that title. The first time I heard it I remember saying, “Hey! He got that from Josey Wales!” 😛
QueenofThrones,
OK, how did I miss your review? 😄 You made several good points. There is stuff I disagree about, such as Dany being a military expert (although it does seem to me she makes a better conqueror than ruler) but I really appreciate your reviews as I know you’re very dedicated to the show.
Haha, and your statement about LF’s words making no sense… you unknowingly made me and the entire LFU admin team laugh, even those who don’t watch GoT. When I pointed this out, we all remembered a certain former admin (who caused some serious damage to the group in the past) and his manner of writing. Thank you so much for writing this.
Stark Loyalist,
I don’t think this show will ever cater to the “let’s make everyone happy” crowd. I hear what you are saying in terms of wanting answers to your questions. As a book reader, I want them as well, more info the better. But I think you have to resign yourself to the fact that some of these answers will come from Martin via the books rather than in the show. The producers have made the decision to shunt aside Dorne and Highgarden. Right or Wrong, there is no going back now and I don’t think it’s thematically necessary to show who rules there by the conclusion of the series.
As far as fan interest, it’s never been higher. It is what is is, we can’t get what we want! I personally would have liked more flashbacks to Robert’s Rebellion and at least the Tourney at Harrenhal. Like you, I would enjoy seeing Edmure again. But at this point with 10 episodes left, I’m not holding my breath.
Also, let’s wait for season 8, we have little idea at this point where they are going with it. Could be completely different stylistically from this season and may answer some of your questions.
Derp… That is all for now. Too busy with work to post. I wish you all good luck in the wars to come.
If you payed attention you will know Jon says he’ll be giving the castles to the sons and daughters. The dreadfort obviously belongs to the Stark. Does it matter now? It’s not the ending.
Highgarden just got sacked last episode so obviously belongs to the Lannisters DUH!
Storm Ends used to belong to Stannis. He’s dead. It’s an open Kingdom but my best guess in the end it will belong to Gendry. Who gives a shit about it now, no one there we care about is playing politics.
Sunspear. Again if you were paying attention Ellaria was going down there to rally some troops for Danny. She’s captured now. Like litterly last episode. So….. yea…. we’ll have to wait to see what happens next shall we?
Edmure? Good question. Last I remember he was a POW in Riverrun. Riverrun probably is being occupied by Lannisters or remaining Frey soldiers. Tho the Freys are wiped there’s probably a few soldiers left holding it. Doesn’t matter now until Edmure comes back into the picture. So where’s Edmure? I’m pretty sure Jaime struck a deal to send him to Casterly Rock as some sort of gentle inprisoment.
Dragons yea yea happy yea yea?!? Not sure what you mean by that but if you didn’t think those Dragons will start playing a big role once Danny got to Westeros and closer to the end game than I don’t know what you were expecting.
So the ease you up a bit so you don’t become dissapointed even further I’m just gonna tell you that it doesn’t matter which lord is next in line or king at the moment. Winter is Here and soon it will become… “this show just turn to dead Ice man look at me yay yay happy yay” for you.
Dee Stark,
*Highfive* Deeeee! What was your favorite part of this episode?!
I actually forgot to mention in my review that Jorah going back to Dany was a huge highlight for me too! I expect he will encourage her to take charge of military matters – and he’ll be right there on the front lines with her. F yeah…!
Lord Parramandas,
HAha well my review was late since I just saw the epi last night.
What is LFU, and who is on the admin team!?? I think I’m missing something but I’m glad to have given you a chuckle!
I don’t mean necessarily that Dany is a military mastermind – but she did personally plan and carry out three successful campaigns resulting in the sacking / occupation of three cities. I don’t think that GRRM/D&D would have shown that if we weren’t meant to realize she is a natural at battle strategy. Tyrion has been consistently urging her to alter her plans away from what she would do instinctually and I think that’s in part led to the failures so far. Also, demands of plot. :p
Clob,
Will Sampson (Cherokee chief Ten Bears in “Josey Wales”) is perhaps best known as the apparently mute asylum resident “Chief” in “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest” who says nothing until offered a piece of gum and says “mmm… Juicy Fruit.”
Meanwhile, the classic exchange between Josey Wales and Ten Bears is pretty much word for word from the book upon which the movie is based, “Gone to Texas” by Forrest Carter (renamed “The Outlaw Josey Wales” in some editions published after the movie came out).
I’m a big fan of video reviews on Youtube. Emergency Awesome, Ozzy Man, Gay of Thrones, Nerdist News: All Kings Considered, and Red Team Review are among some of my favorites. I like Talk The Thrones but for some reason my computer hates twitter and I can never stream it easily. Gotta love Game of Owns podcast and last but not least the Sullied reviews from WOTW. Thanks for the round up here, can’t wait to consume all the GoT media I can get my hands on.
QueenofThrones,
LFU is a LOST fan group where I’m part of the admin team… the thing is that I came upon your review and saw this line of yours: “…like a word salad” and we were just having some conversation about not-so-good old group times and specifically some fun on a certain former admin’s behalf. ANd then due to your review, I mentioned in our group chat “If anyone watched GoT’s newest episode, Littlefinger’s rambling really reminded me of TF’s writing”. And the reaction… I know a couple admins are GoT watchers so they immediately got the thing and suddenly, laughing reactions were all over our chat, even those who don’t watch GoT.
HIGH FIVE
GOD it is soooooooo HARD to choose.
My top scenes in this episode are of Jon and Dany alone on the stairs…. such a sweet moment for two characters who rarely get those…. and Sansa in Winterfell. She really broke my heart seeing Bran, trying to understand him, and then hearing what he said. And Sophie NAILED IT
QueenofThrones,
I absolutely LOVED the Jorah thanking Samwell scene. So much goodwill created between Team Dany and Team Jon for future reference, i.e. Jon’s best friend saved the life of Dany’s best friend (well, excusing the small matter of his initial betrayal).
And if Sam ever meets up with Dany through Jorah, he can give her lots of info confirming that the WW are not a fairy tale, and Jon was not a fruit loop for asking to mine Dragonglass.
Amy Robinson,
I haven’t been able to get Talk the Thrones to work either. I click and then nothing happens… Anybody have better luck??
I’ve been listening to like 6 different GoT podcasts this season. My favorite is probably NPR’s “Nerdette recaps game of thrones with Peter Segal” but I also enjoy A Cast of Kings and EW’s podcast. A new one a friend pointed out to me is The Black Guy Who Tips – they have good insights. However it’s kind of low tech as it’s a daily podcast (not weekly like the rest) – they spend a lot of time trying to get skype to work lol.
Dee Stark,
Didn’t you love it when Sansa basically told LF to shut the f*ck up when he started spouting “advice” to her about Cersei?
Oh so very true, and I love it. <3 !!
I too wonder if Dany might use Jorah to make northern connections. Though most of the north knows he was exiled for slavery he does have their culture & etc and knows how to talk the talk.
QueenofThrones,
Oh and do you want to know how my own review got on my nerves yesterday? It was already a day when I was short on time due to my thesis work which I need to finish as quickly as possible. So I watched GoT quite early that day and some time later, I started writing my review directly on my forum thread. Forums worked fine so far… what could go wrong? I was writing for nearly two hours and, genius as I am, I didn’t make any safety copy or copy it to Word. And when I was one paragraph away from the end, I thought “Oh, maybe I should save the draft on forum in case if something goes wrong”. And just as I wanted to do it, the site just had to crash and I lost all the writing. 2 hours of writing… gone into nothing. 2 hours that I could actually use for my university work. Sure, I rewrote the whole stuff in the evening… and that of course again took me 2 hours so my afternoon was basically trying to write my review. But of course… first time I enjoy it, but second time, it’s a real work.
The worst part of reviews and the fanbase in general is when the morals and standards of 2017 are imposed any characters’ actions or words to somehow denigrate them. Get a grip, people. Westeros is not a safe space and HBO puts up a “trigger warning” at the beginning of each episode. Stop watching if you can’t handle Euron’s “toxic masculinity.”
Mr Derp,
Hey Derp, finish your work and join the fray 🙂 Where have you been?
You have to be joking. Most people who watch this show don’t apply one tenth of the scrutiny they apply to other shows. Dozens of plot holes, and nobody cares, people keep on saying it’s perfect.
The writing has dropped in quality severely, yet people keep praising the writing. If any other show had this many inconsistencies, people would mention them.
Yet strangely reviewers complain about stupid things, like calling this episode “slow”.
Anyone who thinks this was a slow episode needs to reconsider what they’re looking for in entertainment. Every scene was crucial and advanced the plot.
Suffice it to say you can always count on reviewers to ignore genuine flaws in the writing and to instead whine about the pacing in one the most important and eventful episodes of the series.
Steve Snow,
” HBO puts up a “trigger warning”
Huh?
I must have missed those. Unless you mean the ‘previously on’ portion.
Or……I fed a troll. Sorry everyone! 🙂
Oh yeah, forgot about that!
Only problem is he was right, he does know Cersei better than anyone. He lived in KL as an adult for years, serving on the small council, dealing with Cersei, serving her, advising her, plotting with/against her, etc…
Sansa spending a couple years as a captive when she was a teenager hardly gives her the knowledge LF has. Yeah, Cersei gave her a couple drunken lectures in Season 2. That doesn’t give Sansa anywhere near the knowledge LF has.
Sansa barely knows Cersei compared to him.
And the fact that she says that Cersei killed her father, brother, and mother is fairly laughable.
Cersei actively opposed killing Ned, and knew nothing about the Red Wedding. That was all Tywin.
So Sansa apparently doesn’t even know who killed her family. But hey, she knows that it’s important to store food and insulate armor, so she’s a fantastic ruler !
It was Renly’s.. did Stannis take it when he killed Renly? but yes, regardless, they’re both dead.
ramses,
They kind of do put up a “trigger warning”, or at least the way I watch the show, I’m given one.
It always says to beware of violence, nudity, adult language, and sexual content, before the “Previously On” segment even begins.
Not that it bothers me, but as someone living in Europe I do find it kind of silly that HBO feel the need to warn people about that.
Markus Stark,
Wowza. Those have been around for so long I didn’t even associate them with ‘trigger warnings’. I don’t think they’re silly though. Just there, offering benevolent advice. 🙂
ramses,
The work never ends my friend. I’ve been busier than Pod in a whorehouse lately.
jpwf,
I thought of that too, but on further reflection one realizes that saying that makes him weak. It’s basically him saying I actually have no authority over the Northern Lords, I’m a Democratically chosen puppet.
Why should she deal with such a weak ruler?
Content warnings have been around for as long as I can remember and it’s definitely not limited to HBO.
HelloThere,
One reason I dislike reading weekly reviews like these is that they read like homework assignments; they are to be produced immediately, from scribbled notes, for the readership’s quick consumption, and seem designed by template, all stretching to identify themes and then provide a close-reading of the episode. Though there are some talented writers providing thoughtful analysis, it’s on the whole rather slim pickings. You end up reading nothing but grumblings and uncertainties or tracts detailing the reviewer’s lapses of interest/attention.
Mr Derp,
“The work never ends my friend. I’ve been busier than Pod in a whorehouse lately.”
HA! What a apt simile.
That is, as long as Pod is the main draw and he’s bringing in all the $$$ 🙂
I hope you’ll be find time to drop in during the remaining 4 weeks of GoT season.
ramses,
Me too, and thanks for the friendly posts. Much appreciated.
I haven’t been able to find time to post reviews or thoughts on the episodes, but I’m sure my thoughts are being covered somewhere in the 100,000 reviews that show up here after each episode.
Personally, I enjoyed “The Queen’s Justice” very much. In fact, I’ve enjoyed all 3 episodes of season 7 so far.
It’s kind of strange, but my opinion on certain episodes changes between the first viewing and subsequent ones.
For example, “Dragonstone” was good when it first aired, but I actually liked it better the more I watched it.
To be honest I thought “Stormborn” was kind of a clunky episode on first watch, but I was able to appreciate it a little more with each viewing.
I thought “The Queen’s Justice” was by far the best episode of the season when I watched it on Sunday night. I still think so now, but for some reason I don’t find this episode to be as good on rewatches. Weird.
No, you’re wrong there. I tried watching Breaking Bad with the same scrutiny and nit picked the shit out of the first episode and was able to question character motivations, inconsistencies, etc. It wasn’t fun, so I won’t be doing that again. When people constantly misuse the term plot hole, question unspecified travel times, and make jokes about “jet packs”, your can tell their reviews are not sincere.
Your opinion, nothing more. I personally think that Jon and Dany’s first meeting was one of the most well written scenes of the show.
Mr Derp,
“It’s kind of strange, but my opinion on certain episodes changes between the first viewing and subsequent ones.”
Totally normal. So normal that much of your watch/rewatch experiences match my own.
First Viewing
Dragonstone: Enjoyed immensely.
Stormborn: Ripped my heart out.
Queen’s Justice: Holy Shit!
Second Viewing
Dragonstone: Still enjoy immensely.
Stormborn: Still rips my heart out but I appreciate the complex representation of psychological trauma.
Queens’ Justice: TBD *I’ve not rewatched yet* ( endless pondering about this episode just might muddy the waters during rewatch)
If Bran can see everything, than shouldn’t he have asked Sansa what the hell Littlefinger is doing there? And told her of his betrayal of their father? Of course I know the reason he didn’t is to drag that plot out, but that’s the kind of the plot risk you run when you reintroduce him to Winterfell and tell the audience he can see past, present and future.
orange,
I was kind of thinking along the same lines, however, Bran just got back to Winterfell near the end of the last episode, so I’m going to let things play out a bit before forming any opinions about that.
orange,
When describing his powers to Sansa, Bran said, “It’s all pieces, fragments. I need to learn to see better.”
ramses,
I usually rewatch each episode on Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri, and Saturday. In other words, as much as I can!
I find that my favorite GoT episodes tend to hold up on rewatch more than others. For example, I loved “Battle of the Bastards”, but it’s not really an episode that I enjoy nearly as much on rewatch. However, an episode like “And Now His Watch is Ended” is one of my absolute favorites because I never get sick of that episode. It doesn’t have a ton of flashy scenes, but each scene captures my attention every time I watch it.
Mr Derp,
“but each scene captures my attention every time I watch it.”
When I get there…..this will be a effective way to quantify the quality of each episode for me! For real, I envision many future debates on WotW! I hope!
Presently, I’m fixated on each character’s arc and the overall story right now. Which is probably why the last 3 episodes have blown me away, everything is coming together and I love all the callbacks 🙂
And believe me, I can poke holes like the best of them. Something else I’m happily anticipating following the completion of GoT. 🙂
Violator,
That bugged me, too.
This episode is even better on re-watch. So yeah, it’s hard to choose. Mine would be:
– the whole Jon-Dany throne room intro (I loved that no one backed down, but also loved the roles that Tyrion and Davos played in that meeting)
– Jaime-QOT scene (both actors did tremendously in this scene)
– Bran-Sansa reunion (well, I’m a sucker for reunions, particularly Stark reunions; I’ll probably be a mess when Jon reunites with Bran/Arya)
Ten Bears,
I love your analysis of Jon Snow and comparison to Josey Wales (haven’t watched the film; now I’m curious)! Some people here think Jon is so boring (or even dumb!) but there’s so much underneath this character as you’ve stated so well. It’s funny that he’s considered as one of the main protagonists of this series called Game of Thrones yet he’s so uninterested (and some consider him as unskilled) in playing the game.
Clob,
Another line from “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, (delivered by Josey’s Indian friend Lone Wati to Grandma Sarah, a fellow captive) that could easily be transplanted into a Game of Thrones pre-battle scene in S7 or S8; maybe by Sandor to Arya:
“Get ready, little lady. Hell is coming to breakfast.”
Ten Bears,
Jon Snow is epic in season 4 episode 1 –
Game of Thrones | s04e01 | Jon Snow owns Alliser Thorne and Jonas Slynt at Castle Black after escaping from the Wildlings.
I think Jon Snow was a stronger leader and more convincing as Lord Commander of the Nightwatch than he is as King in the North but still a very strong character. I loved the conversation Tyrion and Jon had while standing on top of the Dragonglass Crystal Mountain in The Queens Mercy.
Sam,
• I never heard of “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, and didn’t even know what I was watching when I first saw it on a crappy old staticky TV about twenty years ago.
• I strongly recommend that you watch the complete uncut version: on many broadcast TV airings, it’s “edited for time and content”, and many scenes are abridged or cut completely. (There’s one scene in particular with dialog between two characters recounting a gunfight, and a long pause before a comic punchline is delivered – most edited versions just lop off the scene so you never hear the punchline). Also, the cinematography is beautiful: many of those scenes are excised. And of course, arbitrary commercial breaks ruin a lot of scenes too.
• By way of background (it’s all set up in the film but easy to miss on first viewing), and of particular relevance to parallels in GoT:
– The bulk of the movie is set in the immediate aftermath of the American Civil War. Before and during the war, Union paramilitary “Red Legs” supported by Kansas “Jayhawkers” crossed over into Missouri, pillaging the countryside and killing civilians. In retaliation, citizen militias from Missouri (pejoratively called “Bushwackers”) loosely allied with the Confederacy attacked targets in Kansas. I bring this up because prejudices between Kansans and Missourians lingered on well after the war ended, as exhibited by characters in the film.
– At the same time, the federal government was forcibly relocating Native Americans to reservations, and further out west, incrementally encroaching on Indian land and breaking treaties, leading to territorial disputes and violence, with each side accusing the other of being invaders and murderers: sort of like the Nights Watch and the Wildlings.
• I don’t know what S7e4 of GoT will be about, but “The Spoils of War” could be an apt title for the film too.
I don’t want to give away any “spoilers” in case you watch “The Outlaw Josey Wales”, but one pleasant development on the set of GoT also happened during filming of TOJW:
Mr Derp,
In majority of my cases, I enjoy the episode at least on the same level if not more on my rewatch, as I can focus even more on the characters. Sure, there may be some exceptions but when it comes to GoT and my other favorite TV shows, I cannot think of many.
That scene always felt so awkward to me because of the formal language and cadence of Ten Bears. I’ve always wanted it to be spoken in whatever Indigenous language both Josie and Ten Bears know. (In my head Josie understands Ten Bears language but doesn’t speak it well and vice versa.)
The scene I always liked was the ending with the
“I don’t believe that story about Josie Wales. No way five pistoleros got the best of Josie Wales.”
“Mighta been 6 or 10.” the bar patrons agree not knowing he knows Josie is right there.
“I think Josie Wales is alive.” tension mounts.
Everyone gets real still.
“Might go down to Mexico to find him.”
“And then?”
“Tell him the war is over.”
Pure western gold.
Markus Stark,
I don’t think she meant that Cersei was the mastermind behind the deaths of Ned, Cat and Robb.. I think it was implied that she had some part to play in it, indirectly. At least that’s how I took it.
Also, “Sansa barely knows Cersei compared to him”
Yeah, another that shouldn’t be taken too seriously, Markus. I am sure she just trying to put him in his place.
I was amused by the word salad line mostly because I understood exactly what Littlefinger was saying. If it hadn’t been for the guard mentioning someone at the gate. my immediate tweet would have been:
Fight every battle everywhere always in your mind. LF drops GoT cheat code. #SansaKillsLF2K17 #StudentIsNowTheMaster #DemThrones #SchrodingersDeadCatLover
Shock Me,
I basically understood what he was trying to say. But the manner and words he used… when you read the review and have a separate conversation about specific style of writing at the same time, some crazy ideas appear.
jpwf,
A large amount of those Unsullied were killed taking the Rock, another chunk killed when Euron arrived to destroy their fleet. We don’t know how many are left but they clearly took heavy losses.
Stark Loyalist,
DIdn’t Jamie have Edmure taken back to Casterley Rock with his wife and child after he agreed to help retake Riverrun? If so, there is a chance he may appear in the next episode.
orange,
To be fair he’s only just arrived and clearly trying to piece together lots of information. I suspect next episode this may start to come more to forefront and Sansa may be unwilling to hear it at first.