Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 7 Preview: The Broken Man

Blackfish

“As long as I’m standing, the war is not over.”

In addition to getting hyped up for this Sunday’s new Game of Thrones episode, we also have next week’s episode to think about. HBO has updated their official schedule to include the title of season 6, episode 8 as “No One.” That would appear to confirm the first of the titles leaked by a German network last week. The other end-of-the-season titles, which seemed suspect, are looking more likely now. We expect to hear from HBO any day now with the confirmed episode titles and synopses, so we’ll pass that info on as soon as we hear.

Have a look at the official photos from “The Broken Man” here.

I am very excited for this one. We’re expecting Ian McShane to make his appearance, and it’s a huge episode for Riverrun, with the return of the Blackfish. We can also look forward to some big moments for the Starks, with Sansa and Jon making the North remember.

613 responses

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    1. I already set up a playdate for my kid so I can watch first airing. I’m so looking forward to McShane, and the return of the Blackfish, not to mention the Stark Family Reunion Tour of the North.

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    2. Really looking forward to the return of the Blackfish. Hopefully, its not a quick walk on. And Ian McShane, of course. I’ll just imagine him thinking “tits and dragons”.

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    3. Dee:
      SO HYPED

      I get more so every day! I don’t think Jon is the broken man but that they refer to someone else, but I don’t dare say more because I know you haven’t read the books. I’m expecting a great scene with Ian McShane!

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    4. Hubo,

      I think this episode will probably feature Sansa more than Jon….

      (actually thats kinda true for this season so far imo)… I assume Jon will get more screentime in eps 9 and 10

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    5. Dee:
      Elizabeth,

      Oh hahaha
      yeah no spoilers!

      But maybe it could represent more than one character!!

      And maybe it can!
      Just know I’m so hyped and it’s Friday so not much longer! Yippee:)

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    6. Looking forward to Ian McShane and the Gravedigger; Arya’s plight; and

      the beginning of the end of the Freys.

      I’m also looking forward to seeing if some memorable book moments make it into the show at Riverrun and during the northern roadshow. Oddly, since I detest the II, I’m also looking forward to seeing Theon and Yara’s storyline. What ARE they up to? Can they kickstart the Meereen storyline? This should be a good epi!

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    7. Dee,

      I think a lot of it is D&D really trying hard to respond to the criticisms that Sansa’s storyline last season was all for shock, and would not impact her character development moving forward.

      We can argue all day long about that storyline,
      but I do appreciate their efforts tbh….. Loving her scenes this season.

      But yes.. we need more of Jon Snow’s inner thoughts.

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    8. I don’t remember exactly, but was McShane was only signed for one episode?

      Looking forward to this one and how they reintroduce the BwB and the Blackfish. It’s impossible to choose what I am most anticipating between Northern recruitment, the fallout in KL, and all the potential characters in close proximity at Riverrun, even wrapping up Bravos.

      I don’t hate the other storylines (Dany, Sam, Iron Islands) just not as excited to see them unfold.

      This week will is setup to be an amazing run for the last few episodes of the season. After we have not seen the Blackfish for so long and him being downright defiant to the crown in the trailer, McShane

      possibly reintroducing Sandor!!!

      Northern houses being brought in to decide where their loyalty lies.

      I can’t wait!!!

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    9. Dee,

      I change my mind between like and dislike about that storyline every day, lol.

      But I love what has come out of it

      bring Sansa back home, back to the North, uniting her and Jon, making her an active player in retrieving Winterfell, and most of all finally having LF truly facing a woman whose life he has destroyed (which, as a Brothel keep, he probably has done 100s of times)… I doubt Jeyne Pool will ever get to do that).

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    10. Mihnea:
      God, these past weeks went quickly….

      Mihnea:
      God, these past weeks went quickly….

      Mihnea:
      God, these past weeks went quickly….

      They moved MUCH to quickly and it will be a long year until we get a partial season again. Even the episodes don’t see to be long, I know even at 50/odd minutes it just flies by:(

      Dee:
      SO HYPED

      I get more so every day! I don’t think Jon is the broken man but that they refer to someone else, but I don’t dare say more because I know you haven’t read the books. I’m expecting a great scene with Ian McShane!

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    11. Dee,

      I agree …her evolution has never been for anything less than a great story and crazy journey…people be too sensi bout Sansa

      On another note Im glad were getting more of everything else and less of Dorne…the Sand snakes are the jar jar binks of GoT

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    12. Dee:
      Mihnea,

      4 left

      makes me so sad.

      im leaving on vacation 3 days after the finale, so thatll help with the initial trauma of no GOT for 10 months

      We will be here Dee, once you return. 😄
      Then you can join us feeling extremely sad, miserable and lost. Until we start to get filming spoilers.

      Oops, forgot, you don’t read those. These months must be really hard on you.

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    13. I’m very much looking forward to the (already!) 7th episode of this season!! Especially, after large parts of last episode were somehow badly timed in my opinion (Benjen reveal wasn’t as surprising and dramatic as I hoped; Arya runs away just to hide and switch off the light; I’m waiting for Sam to be “our” Sam and once it happens he just walks into the unprotected dining area and steals.. well just takes the most valuable sword in the region and walks away like in a comedy; and the weird last scene with Dany where she goes around the corner and after a long presumably suspensful minute (it wasn’t really!) comes back ON Drogon although I hoped for a reunion that was more relieving or purposeful than holding a motivation speech for.. well.. going on ships.. when?.. after the next week of marching is over, and ships are organized in the weeks/months/years to come..).

      This episode, though, will be epic, I’m sure – after all those exposition scenes in e6.

      My guess for NO ONE e8 is that Arya fights the Waif and wins – and either takes her face to become no one without being given the blessing by the Faceless men OR – more interestly perhaps – somehow dares to get back to Jaquen (?) and is allowed to become a faceless person nevertheless, as the Waif trying to kill Arya for personal reasons has proven not to be ready herself and, thus, counts as the ‘price that had to be payed’ (“one way or another”).

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    14. HelloThere,

      Yeah, even the preview seems to suggest a more Sansa-focused episode. As usual. I’m getting irritated with the fact that when they have two main characters together they seem incapable of developing both of them sufficiently.

      We’re at episode 7, and Jon has only been present and alive in 3 of them. He didn’t have much in Oathbreaker aside from waking up and dealing with the mutineers, and then 6.04 and 6.05 gave Sansa many more lines and all the character development. Jon faded into the background as a supporting character in Sansa’s quest for Winterfell. This is supposed to be Jon’s season, Jon’s fight with Ramsay, Jon’s time to lead an army.
      If they don’t make up for all of this in the last 4 episodes I’ll be disappointed.

      And giving him lots of screen time during the battle is not enough. There needs to be character development. Interesting character development. They need to truly show us his growth and how he has changed post-resurrection. Him complaining in 6.04 about being tired of fighting is not gonna cut it as our Jon character development of the season.

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    15. Looks like

      No One Bowl is episode 8, going by the title.

      Also after this episode, the next 3 are going to be looooong! 😀 😀

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    16. Dee,

      Well we never saw the Hound die, to be fair. If he should return at some point, it’ll probably be that he didn’t die in the first place, not that he was resurrected.

      That’s my assumption at least.

      And I never thought Benjen was dead and never coming back, that wouldn’t have made sense narratively, so I would really only count Jon as an instance of returning from death.

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    17. Onion Knight don’t cry: On another note Im glad were getting more of everything else and less of Dorne…the Sand snakes are the jar jar binks of GoT

      Good comparison which is why we have only seen them for 2 minutes in the premiere of this season and moved on. I liked the potential there with Siddig and revenge but the story did feel out of place with the rest of our Westerosi adventures

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    18. So people are talking a lot about Jaime and BF since that’s book stuff I guess, but I think BF meeting Brienne could also be very interesting. Remember how well it’s gone when she’s showed up saying she’s working for the Starks but carrying Lannister Steel (not well!). I suspect that Bryndyn will notice.

      Hopefully, Sansa has given her something with the Stark seal on it so she has some proof! Otherwise I suspect BF will assume she’s a turncoat.

      Also will Brienne or Jaime arrive st RR first?? I can’t wait to see how this goes down.

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    19. Hubo:
      I think this should be the Jon-focused episode Kit was talking about

      I think the “Jon Snow” episode will be on Father’s Day June 19 2016

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    20. I still think “Battle of the Bastards” is not the title of episode 9, it sounds so dumbed down. If this is indeed the title of episode 9 I’m disappointed for their lack of subtlety. “No One” can mean a variety of things, and “Winds of Winter” is also believable, but oh so predictable, those two I have no problem with. I know it’s just a title so don’t bother telling me so. And for those who would point at the titles so far, it’s not about simplicity, it’s about subtlety.

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    21. Making the 8,

      To be fair, I expect to get about the same amount as last year, except Jaime/Bronn scenes. So I think in the end will have somewhere around 5-6 minutes of screen time.

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    22. Markus Stark,

      I know we didn’t see him die.

      I didn’t mean being resurrected.

      I meant like Blackfish, Benjen, Edmure – characters who haven’t been seen in a few seasons who had question marks on them.

      Just my opinion.

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    23. Markus Stark,

      If the filming stuff turns to be true, this is the episode were Varys leaves Meereen. So I think will see more Dorne later on, EP10 surely perhaps even EP8 but not 9.

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    24. Dee,

      I see what you mean.

      I do think we’ll probably see more and more of those kinds of returns now that we’re nearing the end of the show. They have loose ends to tie up.

      Hopefully they’ll be done well enough that it won’t bother you !
      The key is for it to feel organic and not like it’s a force/unnecessary return.

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    25. This week’s Games of Odds questions from HBO Hungary:

      1) Will Jamie take back Riverrun from Blackfish?

      2) Will Arya get her punishment from the Waif?

      3) Will Sansa’s group get enough soldier to their army?

      (I really don’t like this last one, why is it called Sansa’s group, why not Jon’s?)

      What do you think, guys? 🙂

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    26. I could see an episode be named “Bastard”, but “Battle of the Bastards” just doesn’t seem realistic.

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    27. Markus Stark,

      Actually, Markus, I have had no issues with any return, and I would love if the Hound returns 🙂 I am just saying we shouldn’t get our hopes up cause it may be too good to be true

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    28. Dee:
      Arthur,

      The Hound is dead.

      Too many “we thought this character was dead but are actually still alive” situations going on already

      The Hound never died on screen.

        Quote  Reply

    29. Mihnea,

      Yeah, it seems likely for an episode 10 appearance. I get the feeling this year’s finale will touch on literally every single story. Sort of like an epic wrap-up before the final act. Hence the 70 minute runtime.

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    30. luki17,

      I say Yes, No, No. (And I agree, don’t like this ‘Sansa’s group’ thing but we should wait and see first before judging).

        Quote  Reply

    31. CONFIRMED LOCATIONS: Riverrun, King’s Landing, The North (Deepwood Motte, Bear Island, The Gift), Volantis, Braavos

      CONFIRMED CHARACTERS: Jaime Lannister, Bronn, Brynden “Blackfish” Tully, “Lame” Lothar Frey, Black Walder Rivers, Edmure Tully, Cersei Lannister, Olenna Tyrell, Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane, Margaery Tyrell, Septa Unella, Sansa Stark, Jon Snow, Davos Seaworth, Robett Glover, Arya Stark, Yara Greyjoy, Theon Greyjoy, Tormund Giantsbane

      PRESUMED/SPECULATED CHARACTERS:

      Brienne of Tarth, Podrick Payne, Thoros of Myr, Sandor “The Hound” Clegane, Septon Meribald/Elder Brother, The High Sparrow, Tommen Baratheon, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Qyburn, Grand Maester Pycelle, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Melisandre, Lyanna Mormont, Wyman Manderly, The Waif, Jaqen H’ghar

      RIDING THE BENCH/UNCONFIRMED: (Meereen) Tyrion Lannister, Varys, Grey Worm, Missandei; (Dothraki Sea) Daenerys Targaryen, Daario Naharis, Jorah Mormont; (Beyond the Wall) Bran Stark, Meera Reed, Benjen Stark, The Night King; (Iron Islands) Euron Greyjoy, Aeron Greyjoy; (Winterfell) Ramsay Bolton, Rickon Stark

      PREDICTIONS;

      The Riverlands: At Riverrun, Jaime will arrive to take command of the Lannister and Frey forces besieging the castle. He will find the situation much as he does in AFFC, under the command of idiotic Freys who believe they can force the Blackfish to capitulate by threatening his nephew. Jaime and Bronn will take the siege in hand and will attempt a negotiated settlement with the Blackfish, but find him in no mood to surrender. Because this season has seen a lot of culling of secondary characters, its possible they end up executing Edmure for real here. I’m not sure how, or whether it happens in this episode or not, but the siege will likely end in the Lannisters and Freys favor. Meanwhile, Brienne and Podrick will chance upon a skirmish between the Brotherhood Without Banners, now under Thoros of Myr, and a group of bandits or partisans under Septon Meribald (or equivalent character). Somehow during this encounter, the Hound’s survival will be revealed, but he will be much different from the Hound we knew from seasons past.

      King’s Landing: The aftermath of the confrontation at the Sept of Baelor will establish that the High Sparrow is ascendant in King’s Landing. He has converted Margaery, and through her Tommen, and only has Cersei left to neutralize. He will exercise some crown/faith prerogative to forestall the option of a trial by combat, and this will force Cersei to seek other avenues of attack. She will certainly utilize The Mountain and Qyburn and his Little Birds, and will seek out aid from Olenna and Kevan, both of whom will deny her due to fears about the High Sparrow possessing their heirs. Once Kevan and Olenna do this, they become impediments and targets for her retribution.

      The North: This location is really fuzzy. The indications are that we will see numerous new locations and characters, but just how many is unclear. From the promo we see that Robett Glover will be confronting Sansa in some fashion. Perhaps he will be suspicious of her because she is Ramsay’s wife, after all. Judging from the synopsis it seems almost certain that we’ll meet Wyman Manderly and getting his North Remembers speech. The big question I have is, are we going to see a number of scenes split up between several locations, or is there going to be some sort of summit of minor Nothern houses somewhere. Either way, we should see Lyanna Mormont, Wyman Manderly, and Davos Seaworth being a fucking boss.

      Volantis: Probably this will just be a table setting scene between Theon and Yara to establish that they are on the run from Euron, and are heading to Daenerys. With so many other plot lines in this episode, I doubt we’d have time for much more than that.

      Braavos: It feels a little early for it, but this could be the episode where we get the big chase and fight scene between Arya and the Waif. If it does happen, I anticipate that Arya will somehow use her new assassin skills to detect that the Waif is stalking her, and make a run for it. She’ll do some pretty awesome parkour, but she won’t get away from the Waif without bloodshed.

      POSSIBLE DEATHS: Kevan Lannister, Grand Maester Pycelle, Loras Tyrell, Rickon Stark, The Waif, Edmure Tully, Septa Unella, Lancel Lannister, Margaery Tyrell, Olenna Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Melisandre

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    32. Sword of the Morning,

      The only importance I grant episode titles is how badass they’ll look in my best-to-worst episode rankings haha.

      But yeah, “Battle of the Bastards” does seem odd, especially since Ramsay is no longer technically a bastard. Just seems like a fan-made name more than a D&D style title.

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    33. Could it be that Gendry is finally coming back? He rowed away into obscurity, but there’s no reason he couldn’t have ended up with the BwB like he did in the books. Then, Arya could come back to Westeros(finally) and reunite with him and decide to join the BwB to get her revenge(also, finally). That would probably be way too convenient for Game of Thrones though.

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    34. I don’t complain too much about books changes. But I hope Ian McShane’s speech is, (if not word for word because of time) at least 70 or 80% lifted word for word from the source material. It’s too good not to be, and not to utilize his cameo for that would be a strange decision.

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    35. Markus Stark,

      I agree. Totally. When 2 big characters get together, the show can’t seem to be able to do justice to both of them. One of them inevitably gets shortchanged. Jaime and Jon are both examples of this. The ep 7 preview is definitely not encouraging in this regard.

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    36. I also expect the Arya Vs. Waif fight for episode 8 with that title. I’m a little worried about it though. Why No one???? We might learn more about the Faceless Men true intentions with Arya. Everyone would be extremely shock if Arya is killed by the Waif. That can’t happen.
      I want so much to watch Arya kill Walder Frey this season and go to Winterfell afterwards for a full Stark family reunion. I don’t think there is enough time for both.
      If all surviving Stark siblings get together at the end of the season, we could have marvellous posters with all the family for Season 7.

        Quote  Reply

    37. HousePotterz:
      CONFIRMED LOCATIONS: Riverrun, King’s Landing, The North (Deepwood Motte, Bear Island, The Gift), Volantis, Braavos

      CONFIRMED CHARACTERS: Jaime Lannister, Bronn, Brynden “Blackfish” Tully, “Lame” Lothar Frey, Black Walder Rivers, Edmure Tully, Cersei Lannister, Olenna Tyrell, Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane, Margaery Tyrell, Septa Unella, Sansa Stark, Jon Snow, Davos Seaworth, Robett Glover, Arya Stark, Yara Greyjoy, Theon Greyjoy, Tormund Giantsbane

      PRESUMED/SPECULATED CHARACTERS:

      Brienne of Tarth, Podrick Payne, Thoros of Myr, Sandor “The Hound” Clegane, Septon Meribald/Elder Brother, The High Sparrow, Tommen Baratheon, Lancel Lannister, Kevan Lannister, Qyburn, Grand Maester Pycelle, Mace Tyrell, Loras Tyrell, Melisandre, Lyanna Mormont, Wyman Manderly, The Waif, Jaqen H’ghar

      RIDING THE BENCH/UNCONFIRMED: (Meereen) Tyrion Lannister, Varys, Grey Worm, Missandei; (Dothraki Sea) Daenerys Targaryen, Daario Naharis, Jorah Mormont; (Beyond the Wall) Bran Stark, Meera Reed, Benjen Stark, The Night King; (Iron Islands) Euron Greyjoy, Aeron Greyjoy; (Winterfell) Ramsay Bolton, Rickon Stark

      PREDICTIONS;

      The Riverlands: At Riverrun, Jaime will arrive to take command of the Lannister and Frey forces besieging the castle. He will find the situation much as he does in AFFC, under the command of idiotic Freys who believe they can force the Blackfish to capitulate by threatening his nephew. Jaime and Bronn will take the siege in hand and will attempt a negotiated settlement with the Blackfish, but find him in no mood to surrender. Because this season has seen a lot of culling of secondary characters, its possible they end up executing Edmure for real here. I’m not sure how, or whether it happens in this episode or not, but the siege will likely end in the Lannisters and Freys favor. Meanwhile, Brienne and Podrick will chance upon a skirmish between the Brotherhood Without Banners, now under Thoros of Myr, and a group of bandits or partisans under Septon Meribald (or equivalent character). Somehow during this encounter, the Hound’s survival will be revealed, but he will be much different from the Hound we knew from seasons past.

      King’s Landing: The aftermath of the confrontation at the Sept of Baelor will establish that the High Sparrow is ascendant in King’s Landing. He has converted Margaery, and through her Tommen, and only has Cersei left to neutralize. He will exercise some crown/faith prerogative to forestall the option of a trial by combat, and this will force Cersei to seek other avenues of attack. She will certainly utilize The Mountain and Qyburn and his Little Birds, and will seek out aid from Olenna and Kevan, both of whom will deny her due to fears about the High Sparrow possessing their heirs. Once Kevan and Olenna do this, they become impediments and targets for her retribution.

      The North: This location is really fuzzy. The indications are that we will see numerous new locations and characters, but just how many is unclear. From the promo we see that Robett Glover will be confronting Sansa in some fashion. Perhaps he will be suspicious of her because she is Ramsay’s wife, after all. Judging from the synopsis it seems almost certain that we’ll meet Wyman Manderly and getting his North Remembers speech. The big question I have is, are we going to see a number of scenes split up between several locations, or is there going to be some sort of summit of minor Nothern houses somewhere. Either way, we should see Lyanna Mormont, Wyman Manderly, and Davos Seaworth being a fucking boss.

      Volantis: Probably this will just be a table setting scene between Theon and Yara to establish that they are on the run from Euron, and are heading to Daenerys. With so many other plot lines in this episode, I doubt we’d have time for much more than that.

      Braavos: It feels a little early for it, but this could be the episode where we get the big chase and fight scene between Arya and the Waif. If it does happen, I anticipate that Arya will somehow use her new assassin skills to detect that the Waif is stalking her, and make a run for it. She’ll do some pretty awesome parkour, but she won’t get away from the Waif without bloodshed.

      POSSIBLE DEATHS: Kevan Lannister, Grand Maester Pycelle, Loras Tyrell, Rickon Stark, The Waif, Edmure Tully, Septa Unella, Lancel Lannister, Margaery Tyrell, Olenna Tyrell, Mace Tyrell, Melisandre

      What happened to Beric then?

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    38. Connor,

      Right. I wonder what Arya’a plan will be in this episode. It would be good to have an Arya episode without they annoy Waif.

      The leaked summary for ep8 said ‘arya is not alone’. Although it sounded like she will meet some friend in that episode, looks like it will be the Waif who will not leave her alone.

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    39. Hey everyone, if you’re discussing filming or book spoilers, and using that info to make predictions, you definitely have to cover that up!

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    40. Markus Stark:
      HelloThere,

      Yeah, even the preview seems to suggest a more Sansa-focused episode. As usual. I’m getting irritated with the fact that when they have two main characters together they seem incapable of developing both of them sufficiently.

      We’re at episode 7, and Jon has only been present and alive in 3 of them. He didn’t have much in Oathbreaker aside from waking up and dealing with the mutineers, and then 6.04 and 6.05 gave Sansa many more lines and all the character development. Jon faded into the background as a supporting character in Sansa’s quest for Winterfell. This is supposed to be Jon’s season, Jon’s fight with Ramsay, Jon’s time to lead an army.
      If they don’t make up for all of this in the last 4 episodes I’ll be disappointed.

      And giving him lots of screen time during the battle is not enough. There needs to be character development. Interesting character development. They need to truly show us his growth and how he has changed post-resurrection. Him complaining in 6.04 about being tired of fighting is not gonna cut it as our Jon character development of the season.

      http://giphy.com/gifs/the-office-thank-you-michael-scott-1Z02vuppxP1Pa

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    41. mrspeel,

      I realize that, but what I mean is I need more of a change than that to be satisfied. I need him to make interesting and unexpected choices that illuminate how he has changed. The change should truly impact him.

      Anyway it’s just my personal desire. I never really thought the show would change him too much, they probably don’t want to mess with the things the audience has come to love about Jon, just like they didn’t go full throttle with Tyrion’s depression from ADwD. They generally tone these things down, especially with a popular character.

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    42. Markus Stark,

      Bran will finish seeing the Tower of Joy scene and find out who Jon’s parents are and somehow Bran or Benjen gets back to the Stark’s Winterfell and tells Jon who his parents are. I the Tower of Joy scene will happen on Father’s Day June19 2016

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    43. By the way from what I’ve read…

      This does not sound at all like the “Jon episode” Kit talked about. This sounds like it will be another Sansa heavy episode in their scenes. It’s more focused on the Northern Houses wanting to know why Sansa married Tyrion and then Ramsay and why they should trust her. Seems as if Jon, again, doesn’t have much work to do here and is essentially a supporting character. Supposedly doesn’t even have many lines in the Wildling scenes and is a supporting character in those scenes as well, this time for a big Tormund speech.

      My guess is the “Jon episode” is episode 10. Bran, young Ned again, and something rather significant with Jon is supposed to happen in this episode. We’ll see.

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    44. OK some rumors I read some time ago, but forgot to put here.
      I found it on….better not say….

      We know from a pic that someone posted here, that McShane plays a character named ”Ray”. I saw people saying that he will be a red priest, not a septon.

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    45. Markus Stark,

      I am not complaining, because Sansa is an infinitely more interesting character than Jon..

      Tho it is weird seeing them not really developing a character who has experienced death…

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    46. A flayed man none,

      Dee,

      Well we never saw the Hound die, to be fair. If he should return at some point, it’ll probably be that he didn’t die in the first place, not that he was resurrected.

      That’s my assumption at least.

      I think that it is worthwhile to consider that “The Hound” may be dead but not Sandor Clegane.

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    47. I don’t get the (to me seemingly arbitrary) criticism of episode titles. “Battle of the Bastards” seems a likely name people in Westeros would give the looming skirmish. So why is it a “fan” title? Just because fans guessed it? “The Queen’s Bloody Diarrhea,” “Hodor’s Last ‘Hodor,'” or “Off a Bridge Not Merrily,” now those sound bad, because the mood doesn’t fit (or perhaps because they’re silly).

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    48. I’m excited for everything in this episode, but what I’m most looking forward to is seeing how Sansa and Jon’s recruitment of the Northern Lords unfolds.

      I think many of us assumed, for the sake of expedience, that they would send out a letter inviting all of the loyal Northern houses to convene at one location – likely Bear Island – so that Jon and Sansa could address them all at once. Now, we know from the trailers and promotional photos that they’ll visit at least two houses – the Glovers at Deepwood Motte, and the Mormonts on Bear Island. There’s also a third scene where Jon, Sansa, and Tormund appear to be in what looks like the wildling camp. This may be happening while they travel between the two locations.

      As it happens, Deepwood Motte and Bear Island are both on the western side of the North, relatively close to one another. It’s plausible that they can visit both in the same episode. But what about the other Lords?

      We know that “Boyce” (potentially Lord Cerwyn) and “Fletcher” (likely Wyman Manderly) were cast for one day of filming. We also know, from set reports Saintfield, that the Hornwoods and the Mazins (a show-only house) fight with the Starks at the battle. But White Harbor and the Hornwood, at least, are on the eastern side of the North. As much as I don’t care about fast travel on the show, I acknowledge that the chances that Jon and Sansa will make it all the way over there in this episode are slim. To do so, they would have to travel past Bolton-controlled Winterfell, or take a long loop around.

      So either Jon and Sansa make several quick stops at several Northern houses, the remaining Northern Lords come to them, or they’re recruited in some other way. Like via letter. In the Episode 7 promo, we do see Sansa writing a letter, and affixing it with the Stark seal.

      One idea – back in Season 1, Episode 8 (“The Pointy End”) there’s the scene where Robb decides to call the banners, and we see a massive number of ravens departing Winterfell. GRRM, who wrote the episode, said on the DVD commentary track that in his original script, the sequence showed the ravens arriving at various keeps and castles across the North, with their Lords receiving them and mustering their forces. The show, quite understandably, scaled it back – they didn’t have the budget to do such a sequence in Season 1. Now, they just might.

      That could explain why “Boyce” and “Fletcher” had only one day of filming. In his interview with EW, Bryan Cogman said that for this week’s episode, there was a week of shooting for a sequence that wound up being his favorite week in all six seasons of the show. Perhaps that could be it?

      Either that, or they don’t appear in this episode. Another possibility that I’ve seen be raised is that after the Battle of the Bastards is over and the Stark forces have taken back Winterfell, there could be another scene where the surviving lords gather together in the castle and decide what to do next – namely, who becomes the new ruler of the North, Sansa or Jon. Perhaps Cerwyn and Manderly could be part of that scene instead. If Wyman’s going to deliver his speech, I’d like to think it would be to a character that we know, not just his family.

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    49. Jared,

      Speaking of the devil!!

      We were just wondering, on a previous thread, why you don’t post so much anymore!

      Good to see you Jared, always love your thoughts and greatly enjoy your writing!

        Quote  Reply

    50. Jared,

      The “Fletcher” character gives a lengthy speech where he unexpectedly changes sides, from the casting report, so I assume he’d show up before the battle. I’m not sure what side he could unexpectedly change at a post-battle summit, when the Starks have already won.

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    51. Say what you will about D&D–and some of you will–but they aren’t afraid to reach back 3 or 4 seasons to reconnect with the fragments of apparently-dead storylines, and that sets them apart from everything else on TV. It might be my favorite part of the show entirely (besides all my other favorite parts.) It’s fantastic that they trust the audience to be invested enough for that sort of thing to work, and it’s even more fantastic that they’re able to do it with so few re-casts of significant characters.

      Also… am I getting sentimental from knowing it’s all coming to an end within a couple years, or has this been a really, really, really good season so far? (greedy bitches aside.) Not only a really good season, but one which appears poised for a very strong finish even if there were to be no big surprises, and of course there will be some big surprises.

      I’m irrationally angry just from knowing that there’s only about 3 and 1/3 hours of material left this season… feels like the greatest injustice of our time.

      Hyper than you are.

        Quote  Reply

    52. ghost of winterfell,

      ofc

      actually jon is my favorite character in the books, but he is just too silent and introspective for him to be as interesting in the tv show w/o inner dialogue. (No blame on D&D or Kit)

        Quote  Reply

    53. Dee,

      The difference is that the Hound was left there to die. So if he hasn’t, that means someone just happened to pass by and decided to take in a highly dangerous looking dying man. It could be, but not that plausible.
      On the other hand, I loved the Hound so I won’t really mind if he makes a reappearance.

        Quote  Reply

    54. HelloThere,

      Yeah, Jon is probably one of the more difficult characters to portray since everything is so internalized with him. And because of this his S2 and S3 arcs suffered. I had hoped that after S5, things would change. Unfortunately not 😞

        Quote  Reply

    55. Markus Stark:
      Dee,

      I see what you mean.

      I do think we’ll probably see more and more of those kinds of returns now that we’re nearing the end of the show. They have loose ends to tie up.

      Hopefully they’ll be done well enough that it won’t bother you !
      The key is for it to feel organic and not like it’s a force/unnecessary return.

      The thing I am afraid is that they are bringing them back to kill them off. Like Osha and, I suspect, Rickon and Edmure Tully. I still have hope for the Blackfish. I mean a guy who escaped a massacre by going to the loo has an angel watching him.
      And then, I really hope the Freys reappearance will lead to a prompt death.

        Quote  Reply

    56. harma dogememe:
      Say what you will about D&D–and some of you will–but they aren’t afraid to reach back 3 or 4 seasons to reconnect with the fragments of apparently-dead storylines, and that sets them apart from everything else on TV. It might be my favorite part of the show entirely (besides all my other favorite parts.) It’s fantastic that they trust the audience to be invested enough for that sort of thing to work, and it’s even more fantastic that they’re able to do it with so few re-casts of significant characters.

      Also… am I getting sentimental from knowing it’s all coming to an end within a couple years, or has this been a really, really, really good season so far? (greedy bitches aside.) Not only a really good season, but one which appears poised for a very strong finish even if there were to be no big surprises, and of course there will be some big surprises.

      I’m irrationally angry just from knowing that there’s only about 3 and 1/3 hours of material left this season… feels like the greatest injustice of our time.

      Hyper than you are.

      100% this

        Quote  Reply

    57. Mihnea:
      OK some rumors I read some time ago, but forgot to put here.
      I found it on….better not say….

      I thought Ian’s own description of his character was much closer to him being the Elder Brother than SM, but agreed on a combination of the two. We don’t know the Elder Brother’s true name…

        Quote  Reply

    58. luki17,

      1) Will Jamie take back Riverrun from Blackfish?

      2) Will Arya get her punishment from the Waif?

      3) Will Sansa’s group get enough soldier to their army?

      Here are my thoughts:

      Yes, the trailer for the season appeared to show a Frey celebration and I’m assuming it is due to retaking RR

      and that would follow the book story as well

      but it will set into motion a series of events

      BF escaping as he does in the books, BWB killing Freys, and perhaps a certain ex-FM might crash the party. I also wonder if the BF might take LSH’s book role in some sense

      No, the Waif will try (and will definitely hurt her) but will ultimately not succeed, maybe due to intervention, the fight has also been shown on the trailer

      Yes, Sansa (the budding Joan of Arc of Westeros) ultimately will, well she will once LF arrives to save the day with the knights of the Vale. The battle will go against them at first. But then I think that that is too cliche and what we all expect to happen. Certainly they will do something to shock us

      and maybe that’s where the parley at WF comes into play

      But I

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    59. As long as I’m standing, the war is not over.

      That doesn’t really sound like a man who’s about to leave Riverrun for the North, or even a man who would sacrifice many of his troops to the North. Sorry, Brienne. #notmyhousenotmykingdomnotmywar

        Quote  Reply

    60. Mihnea,

      Thanks, man! I appreciate that. 🙂

      I haven’t been posting much these past few weeks because I’ve been away from home in a place that doesn’t have the greatest Internet in the world. Also, I’m studying for board exams, which is taking up most of my time. In a perfect world, I wouldn’t be sitting for them during Game of Thrones season, but those are the breaks.

      I’ve been lurking though, keeping up with the articles and checking the comments whenever I can. Reading what you and the other regulars here at WOTW have been thinking about the last few episodes has been a nice respite from hitting the books. Since I have a day off today, so I decided to chime in. Season 6 has been superb – far too good for me to stay as relatively silent as I’ve been. Through six episodes, I think it’s my favorite season so far! Granted, it will need to maintain that level if it’s going to top Season 4, since the back half of that season is my favorite stretch of the show to date. But the way it’s been going, I think Season 6 will take the throne by the end.

      It’s been hard not being able to participate in the conversation as much as I usually do, but I’m loving what all of you guys have to say (one benefit of the time crunch – I’ve been forced to cut bait on some other reviews and discussion venues that were … less fulfilling). I hope I’ll be able to post more in the next few few weeks.

      Also, I agree with your comments on Dorne. There’s no chance that the show is done with those characters. We will see them again, likely when Varys leaves Meereen and returns to Westeros. But I also agree that we’re unlikely to see them again before the finale, so I expect that there are several people who will conclude that the show dropped the storyline entirely. They’ll be in for a surprise.

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    61. I assume Jon told Sansa what happened to him offscreen, who gave the info offscreen to Brienne. Yet, I find it odd these characters act as if this happens everyday. And Bran. He saw everything else…except Jon’s death and/or resurrection in his visions. It does seem to me they have made an active decision to limit the resurrection of Jon, so much so his current positioning resembles a supporting character.

      I don’t understand why. This remains a show with dragons and ice demons and 400 year old witches. So I don’t buy trying to limit the “magic” or the “fantasy” excuse. I find it a bit odd, seven episodes deep, these characters shrug their shoulders at such an incredible event.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Jared,

      Jared, welcome back. Always good to read your insightful commentary.

      Do you think the ravens might be sent between the Bear Island and Deepwood Motte meetings or before? I know distances and times on the show are somewhat elastic but you are correct White Harbor is far away from WF.

      However, don’t you think that Ramsey, once he has word that Sansa and Jon are attempting to rally the houses, he might send ravens requiring the Northern lords to bring their men to him at WF? And might the change be from one who has already received the Ramsey message but decides to change as Sean C suggested at some point before the battle?

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    63. orange,

      That’s so true
      It would have been interesting to include a vision of stabbing scene in his mega download from last episode

      And then he would see the resurrection in another vision.

        Quote  Reply

    64. House Applebee:
      I still think “Battle of the Bastards” is not the title of episode 9, it sounds so dumbed down. If this is indeed the title of episode 9 I’m disappointed for their lack of subtlety. “No One” can mean a variety of things, and “Winds of Winter” is also believable, but oh so predictable, those two I have no problem with. I know it’s just a title so don’t bother telling me so. And for those who would point at the titles so far, it’s not about simplicity, it’s about subtlety.

      The entire episode may revolve around the battle, so it’s apt. I love the title, personally.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Dee:
      Sou,

      Ya rickon is done like dinner. It sucks

      I’m worried for the blackfish – id be annoyed if he dies also

      And I just got a bad feeling for Bronn…

        Quote  Reply

    66. Sean C.:
      Hubo,

      That’s going to be Snowbowl, I guarantee.

      More “The Winds of Winter,” I think. Kit didn’t call “Hardhome” Jon-centric. He’s talking about Jon’s story. He’s talking about the ToJ and many other awesome nuggets, I hope.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Sou,

      Bronn’s done really well for a small character. He’s made it further than some major players and is still relevant enough to sidekick for a main character.

      Edit: My point is, I think he’s safe for now.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Valaquen: The entire episode may revolve around the battle, so it’s apt. I love the title, personally.

      Me too. It’s apt and also spoils nothing. All viewers are aware that Jon/Sansa are out to get Winterfell back from Ramsay after all.

      I’d be surprised if the German channel got one title right but not the other two.

      Anyway, most viewers probably couldn’t tell you what a single episode title was, so it’s not really a huge deal.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Dee:
      Arthur,

      The Hound is dead.

      Too many “we thought this character was dead but are actually still alive” situations going on already

      Which ones? Benjen? Edmure? I never assumed they were dead. It did seem a might strange we didn’t see them for so long, but we also never heard anything that confirmed death. The same is true of the Hound. The gameofthrones.com website even fails to say that he is dead but only that “Arya left the Hound alone to die.”

      Now, if there was someone we watched die, undoubtedly, and that person was dead for years, say, then that would be a great indication indeed that this character’s arc was over. Otherwise, expect the unexpected.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Sean C.,

      I agree, and I think that it will play out as just as you say. The only reason I even mentioned the other possibility is because I saw one of the potential leaks in the forums, and it made me wonder if there could be conflict among the Northern Lords as to whether Jon or Sansa should be the new King or Queen of the North after they win back Winterfell. That shift wouldn’t have the same impact, however. I wouldn’t have mentioned it at all but for the fact that “Fletcher” only filmed for one day and he hasn’t yet been explicitly confirmed to appear in this episode. That opens the door to uncertainty, so I’m trying to consider all potential options, even if I don’t think they’re particularly likely. Hopefully Wyman will appear this week, and all questions we have about the size, placement, and nature of his role will be answered.

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    71. I am hoping Lyanna Mormont gives her speech, reminding/shaming the North into remembering their debt to the Starks.

        Quote  Reply

    72. I have it on good authority…

      ..that WaifBowl will end with the Waif killing Arya, and taking her face.. and Maisie will play Waif-as-fArya as she is sent to Westeros by Jaquen to finish Arya’s list, out of respect for her memory.

      What authority, you ask? None, really. It would just be awesome.

        Quote  Reply

    73. harma dogememe,

      Apart from the last episode (which I really understand it was needed, but it was a bit down imo), this season has been phenomenal and I wonder if it’s because I’m suddenly unsullied or if it really is just that great of a season.

      also, I’ll be really disappointed if episode 9 is really “Battle of the Bastards”

        Quote  Reply

    74. Sword of the Morning:
      I could see an episode be named “Bastard”, but “Battle of the Bastards” just doesn’t seem realistic.

      Well, you might have a week to get used to it before they officially confirm. You might even have two. Or they could confirm all three tomorrow since they’ve already been leaked.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Ginevra,

      As I explained in a further comment, what I was trying to say was, the Hound has had a question mark on him, just like the BF and Benjen and possibly Edmure, so I was putting them all in the same category.

      “The hound is dead” was me speculating and also being an a-hole cause we all want him back

        Quote  Reply

    76. Jared,

      With three different Northern locations already confirmed for 607 (the Gift, Deepwood Motte, Bear Island), I doubt we’ll see Manderly or Cerwyn that week. That’ll be for 608, which is perhaps also where Sansa decides she has to accept the Vale’s help.

      Ginevra,

      With episode 609 being heavily about the North, past precedent would indicate there’s not going to be a ton of the North in 610; there’ll be some stuff, I’m sure, but the bulk will need to be given over to all the other storylines.

        Quote  Reply

    77. If the Wall falls in episode 10… as per Benjen Stark, the NK will be there, and Bran will be there too ….

      Why would he be looking at visions in episode 10?? Unless the episode starts with a vision/revelation..

      I dunno, so excited and yeah im skipping a few weeks here lols

        Quote  Reply

    78. Jaynee D.: they are posting Indira Varma in the cast for this episode, according to your link. SS maybe? i had hoped we were done with dorne.

      Yeah, they also have Michael McElhatton down for every episode this season. I wouldn’t use that as a guide.

      On another note: I’m in the ep9 title “The Battle of the Bastards” rocks camp. Go to hell, whingers.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Jaynee D.,

      I don’t think that list is based on episode. In fact it doesn’t look updated at all. She’s credited in the previous episodes.

      Edit: Well done, Kit.

        Quote  Reply

    80. orange,

      Given that episode 10 will likely touch on every single story (as well as some non-stories, such as Dorne), I don’t think that’s the Jon episode, unfortunately.
      IIRC, Kit phrased it like “there’s an episode this year that is really all about Jon, it’s his story”, or something like that. Given that, I feel like it’s probably episode 9, since that’s the battle episode, and Jon will undoubtedly be featured heavily in it. Episode 10 just seems too sprawling to be “all about Jon”.

      And I really think the fact that he was on set more than anyone is just because he spent a month on set for the battle, and Dinklage clearly has less screen time this year than he usually has.

      So far, 6 episodes in, I think it’s fair to say Jon has never had so little to do. Every single season has featured him more heavily in the first 6 episodes than this one.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Jaynee D.: they are posting Indira Varma in the cast for this episode, according to your link. SS maybe? i had hoped we were done with dorne.

      Where do you see the cast?

      Ok, Dorne is not great news, but I keep my hopes up (that it will somehow become relevant and not corny)

        Quote  Reply

    82. Jaynee D.: they are posting Indira Varma in the cast for this episode, according to your link. SS maybe? i had hoped we were done with dorne.

      It’s a generic list. Look at the cast for Episode 6 “Blood of My Blood.” It has Kit Harington, Peter Dinklage, Iain Glen, Sophie Turner, and a whole bunch of others who didn’t show up in the episode. That same list appears in the description for all episodes.

      I wouldn’t assume that Indira Varma is in E7 based on that list.

      Edited: It seems I was ninja’d a few times. Carry on.

        Quote  Reply

    83. I was about to suggest that The Brotherhood Without Banners could be the troops that Blackfish used to retake Riverrun, but I suppose flying Tully banners would go against their very name.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Markus Stark: Every single season has featured him more heavily in the first 6 episodes than this one.

      Nah, season two was and probably always will be Jon’s weakest season. Go to Crasters and brood; see something horrible; go “weeeee” down the ice, then get captured by Wildlings, kill the Half-hand…and that’s about it, really.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Kit Hairyton,

      I wasn’t talking about this year being the weakest for Jon, of course it won’t be. If you read my comment, you’ll see I was talking about screen time. And I’ll wager Jon had more in the first 6 of season 2 than in the first 6 this year.

      Let me be clear that I’m talking about screen time while alive, so those scenes with Jon dead on a plank don’t count.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Dee,

      Yes, I read that future comment later. I should wait to comment until I’ve finished reading all comments, but by then I know I would forget everything.

        Quote  Reply

    87. The “Hound” shall become the new “Hodor” first-to-post requirement after this episode. Book it!

        Quote  Reply

    88. luki17,

      it’s easy dude, even thoght I love Jon (my fav male character), he is a bastard, Sansa has the Stark name, so that means that she is the rightful heiress to the North

        Quote  Reply

    89. Not sure if this has been posted yet but EW released a spoilery synopsis of this upcoming episode.

      Much of the action this week takes place in Riverlands as the Starks scramble to lock up various houses of support, while Cersei tries desperately to hold onto her rapidly diminishing power in King’s Landing. Also: Expect at least one big reunion.

      http://www.ew.com/article/2016/06/03/spoiler-room-game-thrones-outlander-unreal-spoilers

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    90. I think that Arya will kill the Waif in episode 8 by darkening a room to give herself an advantage that results from her blind training. All that blindness training with the Waif was for a reason! Arya will offer the Waif’s body to Jacquen to pay the death debt to the many-faced god, and then Jacquen will release her from her service/training since it is now obvious that Arya can never be “no one”. As others have noted, the Waif’s hatred of Arya meant that she also failed a test of being “no one”. This is what makes her death a suitable substitute in the eyes of the many-faced god. Another face will be added to the hall.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Sean C.,

      Good idea! I’d assumed that 6×08 would be more battle prep than recruitment, but if you’re right, then Lord Cerwyn and Lord Manderly could definitely appear next week instead. In fact, I like that possibility better than trying to figure out how to work them in this week.

      And yes, if the rumors that Sansa arrives at the battle with the Vale knights are correct, then at a certain point she’ll need to break off from Jon and the others to go meet up with them. Perhaps, after a few Northern houses turn them down (like the Glovers, perhaps), she realizes that they don’t have quite enough men to defeat Ramsay and that Brienne is unlikely to return with Blackfish and the Tullys in time. At that point, she decides to bite the proverbial bullet and seek Littlefinger’s aid after all. If that’s in the cards, it would likely happen next week as well.

      Darkrobin,

      I think the ravens would probably be sent from a castle, so after one of the meetings and perhaps both. My guess is that Jon, Sansa, and Davos will go to Deepwood Motte first, and Robett Glover turns them down – either because he doesn’t trust them (Jon because he’s a bastard who “deserted” the Night’s Watch, Sansa because she married Ramsay) or because his men are exhausted after taking Deepwood Motte back from the Ironborn. So Team Stark leaves angry and dejected. Then they get on a boat, go to Bear Island and meet Lyanna Mormont, who agrees to support them. When she does, they would have a temporary base for the rest of the episode. Sansa could send out some letters to the other Northern houses from there.

      As for Ramsay, I agree that word about what Jon and Sansa are doing is likely to reach him. Before the season started, I wondered if he might go out on his own recruiting campaign, but since the Karstarks and Umbers came to him and the Pink Letter has been sent, he’ll probably just sit in Winterfell and wait for Jon and Sansa to arrive. I do think it’s possible that, as you suggest, he could send out some more letters of his own, demanding that the Manderlys, Cerwyns, Hornwoods, and the others come to Winterfell to pledge their fealty to him, or else after the battle is over he’ll hunt them down, destroy their castles and flay them living, or something along those lines. Perhaps that’s when the Lords need to decide where their loyalities lie and whatever allegiances are going to change shift then and there.

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    92. The Winter of Bastardfell,

      oh I like that!!!

      and you know what, many have commented on that – arya fighting the waif in the dark and in my head I always said, but the waif has always beat her.

      But I forgot that the waif could see when she was fighting her, and arya couldn’t , so she will have the advantage.

      Don’t know why I didn’t think of it that way – so stupid LOL

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    93. I hope the Blackfish still has the Stark banner flying over Riverrun. I really like the way he tells Jaime the war is not over. It’s so badass!

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    94. I also have several questions, but I will choose 3:
      a) Who are burning in the crosses at Winterfell?
      b) Will all the Stark children (Jon, Sansa, Rickon, Bran and Arya) arrive at Winterfell by the end of the season?
      c) Will Nymeria an her pack of wolves make an appearance in the show?

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    95. The Winter of Bastardfell,

      Not that I object or anything, it is just that if I remember correctly this Sunday’s synopsis states something like “Arya has a plan”. If the waif doesn’t show up to get killed (hopefully) this episode, what kind of plan will Arya work out over a whole episode, in the dark?

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    96. Alvaricomg,

      Except Jon is the one who will actually be leading the army and fighting in the battle. Sansa’s in this Northern campaign only because of streamlining and script convenience. This is very much Jon’s storyline and it’s his team as well. Not to mention Davos, Mel and Tormund are loyal to Jon, not Sansa.

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    97. Onion Knight don’t cry,

      Ha!!

      JemFX,

      more interestly perhaps – somehow dares to get back to Jaquen (?) and is allowed to become a faceless person nevertheless, as the Waif trying to kill Arya for personal reasons has proven not to be ready herself and, thus, counts as the ‘price that had to be payed’ (“one way or another”).

      Thats rather been my thought. His comment then makes a great deal of sense. I wonder if she is allowed to leave with a face…(hee, saving face? 🙂

      Dee,

      Yep.

      If you think what Sansa went through was horrible, what happens to Jayne when she marries R is worse in the book. Much worse.

      HelloThere,

      She is a more interesting character, plus as a Stark she does have more interest in getting WF back and that might make it more palatable for the Northern lords. But I also agree with Jon, the the lack of any reaction about his death and resurrection. It all happened, and then – nothing. Was like we spent the entire year discussing and debating for nothing if they don’t have some kind of mention or something. Anyway – suspect we’ll hear more of Jon in 9 or 10.

      Jared,

      Hey, good to see your font again! You were missed (and I suppose your excuse is that you actually have a life outside GOT? 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    98. Making the 8:
      Any mods confirm this?

      It’s not real, the author wrote this at the top of the article:

      The following is a chapter excerpt from A Dream of Spring*.

      * Not really.

      SBN is pretty satire-y.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Ginevra,

      Hello there! 🙂 I hadn’t yet scrolled through all of the comments on the post with the Episode 7 photos, so I hadn’t seen that my absence was being discussed. It’s nice to know I was missed, even if my silence has reduced the amount of times that people need to reach for the scroll bar to get past my walls of text. 😉 I certainly missed talking about Game of Thrones with you all.

      ash,

      Hey there! Unfortunately, yes, I’ve been busy, and will be for the next month or so. As I told Mihnea, I’m currently away from home and studying for boards, which is why I haven’t been posting as frequently. It’s a shame that my current obligations coincide with the second half of Season 6, but that’s life. If I had all the money and time I needed, then in a perfect world, I would take a ten-week vacation during Game of Thrones season and basically just camp out here, doing nothing but thinking and talking about the show. Alas, it’s probably better for my sanity that I keep my focus on reality and occasionally check in with the Seven Kingdoms, as much as I’d like to do the opposite. 😉

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    100. Jared,

      omg I feel you… years ago, the red wedding aired 5 days before my 4 hour long CPA exam (I didn’t read the books so that was an utter shock to me)

      IT WAS SO HARD TO STUDY lol

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    101. Elizabeth: I don’t think Jon is the broken man but that they refer to someone else,

      Hyped?! Oh yes. This is the time of year when all activities spiral around Sunday coming. I’m glad to see that I’m not the only one on here who put their families on notice that unless you also intend to sit and watch, go away.

      There are a number of broken men to whom the title could apply. Jon, certainly, but he seems on the way to repair. Theon will never be the same, physically or mentally; Sam seemed to be doing well until he met with his father; Tyrion has made a life-style of being broken; Jaime could even be on this list – he always seems to be floundering. Just as it seems he’s getting his bearings, something undoes him, such as getting his hand lopped off, being fired from the King’s Guard, a daughter dying in his arms. He seems to be maintaining, but we will see how it plays out with him.

      I am aware of the other application for the title, and how it looks like McShane will be the means by which it is delivered, and that has me the most excited. Oh hell, who am I fooling, I’m excited that it’s almost Sunday

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    102. This is one of the times i want the show goes it’s own way (regarding Riverrun’s storyline)….because I wasn’t very happy with how this went down in the books

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    103. Darkrobin,

      Sansa (the budding Joan of Arc of Westeros)

      I like that as long as some Red Priestess doesn’t decide to carry that arc to its natural conclusion!

      Tycho Nestoris,

      yes but……he is brought back and ends up solving the lake mystery, and getting the gods to leave [/[spoiler}

      Dee,

      Also remember Arya has needle, and she knows how to use it, plus she has learned to fight while blind….don’t think she’ll have any trouble with the Waif

      mmm, my last comment is going through moderation ….mods, anything wrong? I covered the spoiler, really I did .

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    104. Dee,

      Yikes! Watching arguably the most devastating episode of the series just before a major life event – that’s some unfortunate timing to say the least. When people joke that watching Game of Thrones can be hazardous to your health, this is what they’re talking about. Sounds like you got through it OK, though!

      I’m lucky that my exam isn’t scheduled until after the finale. Hopefully there will be enough time to process whatever emotional devastation that episode has in store for me. 😉

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    105. Jared,

      Good to see you!

      Unfortunately, yes, I’ve been busy, and will be for the next month or so. As I told Mihnea, I’m currently away from home and studying for boards, which is why I haven’t been posting as frequently.

      Ok, well that means when the show is done you’ll be able to get on during the off season and talk about it all! I got ‘lucky’ this year and have been out on leave so have had lots of time to waste here. Actually wish that wasn’t so!! Hee anyway, Good luck on your boards!

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    106. ash,
      Cool, thanks. I have to go back and finish it. I read Hyperion and started American Gods but then GoT started so I put it down.

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    107. Thanks everyone for clarification. I click on all GOT/ASOIAF articles so now I have to sift through alot of the bullshit ones because the Internet tracks my interest and links me all info pertaining to both. I was on my lunch break and just got through the 1st paragraph without paying attention to the details of authenticity. Didn’t even realise it was an SBN article. I will read the rest anyway like a sucker though

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    108. Alvaricomg,

      Except Rickon’s (still) alive and Sansa knows Bran is alive as well. She is no heir to anything. If she gets and accepts the seat of Winterfell she will be basically usurpring her brother’s right.

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    109. Newbietothegame: We will be here Dee, once you return.
      Then you can join us feeling extremely sad, miserable and lost. Until we start to get filming spoilers.
      Oops, forgot, you don’t read those. These months must be really hard on you.

      I’m so glad everyone will be here afterwards. Last summer was my first of staying in touch with a website until the next season, and it made a huge difference. I couldn’t imagine what we’d be talking about, but doubts were erased within the first few weeks.

      All the Kit sightings and Hairgate were hilarious. Everyone poring over each released (or snatched) picture during filming, and reading the escapades of fans trying to get into the filming sites, added a whole new dimension to being part of the fandom of this series. I’m so glad WotW is here, and commend, once again, Sue and gang for making it so.

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    110. Sou:
      Clob,

      an entire thread marked “spoilers ahead”.

      Well whatever. I usually code things I think are spoilers. I just wrote a character name and a set of initials – nothing about their role or characteristics.

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    111. Dee:
      Mihnea,

      4 left 🙁

      makes me so sad.

      im leaving on vacation 3 days after the finale, so thatll help with the initial trauma of no GOT for 10 months

      Lol.. did you plan your vaca AROUND the GoT season? How convenient you don’t leave until AFTER the season ends?? Too funny if you did.. Im going away for the summer and leave next week so I made sure I have it all available on my computer before traveling ANYWHERE… not taking any chances of missing any episodes.. and SUPER HYPED for this weekends show.. just so much to look forward to!!

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    112. Ginevra: More “The Winds of Winter,” I think.Kit didn’t call “Hardhome” Jon-centric.He’s talking about Jon’s story.He’s talking about the ToJ and many other awesome nuggets, I hope.

      Wooooohooooo to finally get the R+L=J storyline is going to be EEEEEEPPPPIC!! So much to look forward too!!

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    113. Sean C.:
      Jared,

      Ginevra,

      With episode 609 being heavily about the North, past precedent would indicate there’s not going to be a ton of the North in 610; there’ll be some stuff, I’m sure, but the bulk will need to be given over to all the other storylines.

      I agree, and you may be right, but I think that break in precedent is exactly why Kit said this was an enormously strong season for Jon with one episode in particular.

      We know that the ToJ reveal will be this episode, and Young Ned has said that he’s got quite a long scene in this one. We can assume from the title of the episode that the Wall will come down. If the leaked descriptions are also correct (much less evidence that they are), then we’ll have several other non-northern storylines in “The Battle of the Bastards.” It would seem logical to confirm TPTWP this episode, although they may be saving that for Season 7. Where are those leaked descriptions, by the way?

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    114. Jaynee D.: they are posting Indira Varma in the cast for this episode, according to your link. SS maybe? i had hoped we were done with dorne.

      Who told you Dorne was done? They still have their part to play towards the end.

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    115. Ice Spider,

      Actually, I did.
      Initially we were leaving on Friday June 24, then my sister and I said UM no we are watching GOT here.. so we changed it LOLs

      Im leaving Canada so I had to make sure I could watch it live.
      It was soooo hard to wait a day to watch while I was in china LOL

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    116. Ginevra: That doesn’t really sound like a man who’s about to leave Riverrun for the North, or even a man who would sacrifice many of his troops to the North.Sorry, Brienne.#notmyhousenotmykingdomnotmywar

      Yeah.. but he doesn’t KNOW the real truth either… when Jon and Sansa AND Davos show up to talk about the WW coming you don’t think that will motivate him to join? Im thinking he may after he hears what’s headed his way!! IJS

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    117. Tycho Nestoris:
      ash,
      Cool, thanks. I have to go back and finish it. I read Hyperion and started American Gods but then GoT started so I put it down.

      I’ve read just about everything by Gaiman and Simmons. They’re both in my top 5 authors. Simmons could be my favorite. Have you read just Hyperion or the entire Hyperion Cantos? If that could get made into a movie or tv series I would be thrilled! I might have enjoyed his Illium/Olympos set even more though. That’s some brilliant stuff.

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    118. Dee:
      Ice Spider,

      Actually, I did.
      Initially we were leaving on Friday June 24, then my sister and I said UM no we are watching GOT here.. so we changed it LOLs

      Im leaving Canada so I had to make sure I could watch it live.
      It was soooo hard to wait a day to watch while I was in china LOL

      Yeah.. that kinda reminds me of the episode that got leaked.. it was MURDER waiting to watch it knowing it was available online but I honestly I wasn’t ready to watch it early and I wanted to be respectful of the show.. I know I know.. that is going to PISS OFF a bunch of folks but IDGAF.. just my own personal beliefs. Not saying anyone has to abide by them… IJS… just me.

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    119. Arya will be confronted by the waif, the scene will then cut to black without giving us a conclusion. Later on we will see Arya travelling back to the North and so it would appear that she beat the waif. She will re-unite with jon/stark family members and all will be well. After they embrace she will stab him/stark members with needle and then it will be revealed that the waif killed Arya and is wearing her face. Many people could have payed the faceless men to assassinate members of the stark family (cercei, ramsay, NightsKing etc).

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    120. Clob,

      Don’t worry, I am just saying, not telling you off. I understand it must be pretty hard for book readers to realize what may constitute a spoiler.
      To be honest, I do not only avoid reading spoiler-tagged comments but also comments that are pretty long; thinking that if someone has written so much, there is a strong possibility that something’s there that I shouldn’t read!

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    121. Clob,

      I read Fall of Hyperion as well. Started Endymion but they were so distant that I needed to space them out (so I picked up American Gods). Once GoT started, there were affc hints, so I am reading that in between eps.

      I am really conflicted about an adaptation of Hyperion. I heard rumors that Bradley Cooper of all people wanted to produce a mini series on Syfy. To me, that sounds like a train wreck. It’s got all the hurdles of asoiaf adaptation plus all the high tech stuff (spaceships and farcasters). I kinda want it to stay on the page. I will of course watch it if it happens. Side note. Is Brawne Lamia not the spitting image personality of Brienne?

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    122. Ginevra,

      I’m taking the discussion of leaked descriptions to the forums, by the way, because we could get in big trouble here for that sort of thing. I’m sorry if I’ve already overstepped. If you’d like to see the descriptions and speculate, click here to go to the forums.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Dee,

      Well, I was away for the first 4 episodes, no way to watch them on time; I had to drive 45 minutes in the desert to get to the nearest 4 star hotel with adequate connection, and I did that on Tuesdays, at the earliest… The things I do for love (of GOT).

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    124. luki17:
      This week’s Games of Odds questions from HBO Hungary:

      1) Will Jamie take back Riverrun from Blackfish?

      2) Will Arya get her punishment from the Waif?

      3) Will Sansa’s group get enough soldier to their army?

      (I really don’t like this last one, why is it called Sansa’s group, why not Jon’s?)

      1. Not certain, but I do think in some fashion. Blackfish is a slippery dude and unpredictable, he won’t go without a fight.

      2. I do think that Arya is going to get a good old fashioned arse whoopin’. As she has been. But she is on the run, we already know that. My HOPES is that she offs the Waif. I really dislike that chick.

      3. Yes. But it won’t be enough. It will take the Vale to make the difference.

      I have seen a few people agree with you about using Sansa as appearing to be the leader in the question and find it “not right to do so”. I disagree and I am no huge Sansa fan. But SHE is the one that rallied a gloomy Jon to do this very thing and without a doubt SHE is the Stark in the group. It may be that the show runners are trying to give her something to work with to continue her growth.

      It may have been a better choice if the question simply used both their names. Would that have been less objectionable?

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    125. David or Dan’s fave is Sansa (can’t understand why. She doesn’t and can’t do much), hence she hogs all the screentime when she appears next to other major characters. But Jon is like the titular character (the books). He’s one of the famous big trio (Jon, Tyrion, Dany), it’s just jarring that the season which should be big for him due to the major events in his life (death and resurrection) is reduced to one battle and a few moments with hardly any speaking lines. Kit has definitely overexaggerated Jon’s arc in season 6. The showrunners really dropped the ball with his character thisyear I so wish Jon and Sansa would part ways. The sooner the better.

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    126. Anyone know if we’re actually getting Arya vs the Waif? (The whole chase scene thing you can see in the trailers)? I had heard that would happen episode 8, but then I can’t see the point of showing Arya this episode if that isn’t gonna happen.

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    127. Dee:
      If the Wall falls in episode 10… as per Benjen Stark, the NK will be there, and Bran will be there too ….

      Why would he be looking at visions in episode 10?? Unless the episode starts with a vision/revelation..

      I dunno, so excited and yeah im skipping a few weeks here lols

      I’m thinking that all of Bran’s visions are relevant to defeating the NK. I’m also of the mind that, if the Wall falls, it will be the very last thing that happens this season.

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    128. JCDavis,

      They can continue Sansa’s growth (it feels forced now though), but why do they have to do it at the expense of Jon’s growth? His is missing because they focus on Sansa entirely. They decided to neglect any development for Jon. And Sansa is so boring. She can’t take care of herself (like Arya can), always has to rely on others, isn’t smart, isn’t a politician, isn’t a military tactician, isn’t a fighter. What is she? Just a pretty face with a name.

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    129. So I think I asked if Arya would be able to take the Waif’s face in an earlier post but I’m not sure if anyone really answered. Is that special magic she doesn’t know yet?

      Some people have mentioned that the Waif made a face when Frey was mentioned…thinking she might be related.

      Could Arya take her face and infiltrate the Frey house and off Walder? That would be cool.

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    130. The Winter of Bastardfell:
      I think that Arya will kill the Waif in episode 8 by darkening a room to give herself an advantage that results from her blind training.All that blindness training with the Waif was for a reason!Arya will offer the Waif’s body to Jacquen to pay the death debt to the many-faced god, and then Jacquen will release her from her service/training since it is now obvious that Arya can never be “no one”.As others have noted, the Waif’s hatred of Arya meant that she also failed a test of being “no one”.This is what makes her death a suitable substitute in the eyes of the many-faced god.Another face will be added to the hall.

      I hope you are sooooo right.. bc the alternative is not something Im willing to consider!! I do NOT want Arya to die this season… I really want a reunion with her and the Hound!! Or even Gendry… AND of course her favorite half bro Jon.

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    131. Ginevra,

      We have only one other location confirmed for E9 (thanks to set photos). It’s Meereen. Of all the locations to disrupt Bastardbowl they chose this one…Hopefully no Daenerys in this episode. But with Meereen she might be present

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    132. Ice Spider,

      Yeah, I’ve mentioned before that the Waif is totally not qualified to be a faceless man because she has way too much personality too…like Arya.

      Thus Jaqen is allowing this face-off to happen.

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    133. Sou:
      The Winter of Bastardfell,

      Not that I object or anything, it is just that if I remember correctly this Sunday’s synopsis states something like “Arya has a plan”. If the waif doesn’t show up to get killed (hopefully) this episode, what kind of plan will Arya work out over a whole episode, in the dark?

      Ooo, maybe Arya’s plan involves deliberately leading the Waif into a trap, perhaps into a darkened trap, certainly a Needled trap. Of course, I also hope her plan involves faces.

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    134. Looper:
      Anyone know if we’re actually getting Arya vs the Waif? (The whole chase scene thing you can see in the trailers)? I had heard that would happen episode 8, but then I can’t see the point of showing Arya this episode if that isn’t gonna happen.

      My guess is yes.. but it’s going to be a real guess as to who defeats whom. Im hoping it’s Arya.. I know others are saying the Waif. I dislike her intensely as well. Jealousy is not a character trait I admire much.

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    135. Ginevra: Ooo, maybe Arya’s plan involves deliberately leading the Waif into a trap, perhaps into a darkened trap, certainly a Needled trap.Of course, I also hope her plan involves faces.

      Im wondering bout this since we have talked extensively about her NOT having the training to use a face yet. So Im wondering how she would do that since she wasn’t involved in that part of the training?

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    136. Some speculation based on the leaks

      it looks like Sansa and Jon do part ways in episode 8. She goes to Littlefinger to fetch the Vale army. It sounds like her little lie comes out because apparently Jon learns about the Vale coming before the battle. Right after the battle/Ramsay’s imprisonment, Jon says ‘you were late/what took you so long?’ to either Sansa or Littlefinger or both. I think their plan is to postpone the attack until the Knights of the Vale come with Sansa and LF, but then Ramsay releases Rickon and all hell breaks loose.

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    137. The new Beautiful Death poster for “Blood of My Blood” from Robert Ball. http://beautifuldeath.com/image/145363173928

      “The dead don’t rest.” It’s a nice tribute to Benjen (who did sort of die when he became Coldhands) and an elegant workaround to the problem that no one died in the episode other than the wights and the Mad King in the flashback.

      Also, that fiery mace being shaped like a wolf’s head? Awesome. I’m guessing that it’s just artistic license, but it’s be amazing if that’s actually what it looked like in the show (I can’t get a good look – it’s too dark and Benjen is swinging it too fast). Hey, the guy spent several years beyond the Wall. He needed some kind of hobby. Why not do some arts and crafts with your weapons? 😉

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    138. Jumbo,

      I agree with you 100%. It’ll be very difficult for them to redeem how they’ve handled Jon so far. I just hope the last 4 episodes give him enough meat to work with (though it seems like episode 7 will be far more Sansa-centric, for a change).

        Quote  Reply

    139. rhymeswithweak:
      Ice Spider,

      Yeah, I’ve mentioned before that the Waif is totally not qualified to be a faceless man because she has way too much personality too…like Arya.

      Thus Jaqen is allowing this face-off to happen.

      Well Im really wondering what is going on in Jaqen’s mind bc he MUST know that the Waif is really jealous.. he has interrupted her TWICE now doing things Im sure she wasn’t suppose to (the time he walked in and he asked her what she was doing- previous season) and then this season when she threw down the mic (lol) and started using her fists.. the look on Jaqen’s face was like “that wasn’t part of the training you were suppose to be giving”.. could be just my interpretation but my guess is Jaqen really knows the Waif’s true motives and could be seeing who is going to win that battle… but should be interesting to see how it all comes out in the wash.

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    140. rhymeswithweak,

      That “Frey” look was because Arya got up from the beatdown. The “Frey” name was during the game of faces. The editing makes it appear that Waif reacted to Frey name but she didn’t. Waif is not related to Walder Frey. Plus, I think the Waif was telling the truth when she said she was an only child.

      The “Waif” is a FM. In fact she became “Jaqen” at the end of season 5. The “new?” Waif is Faceless too because she has the “old” Waif’s face.

      This is my interpretation so feel free to disagree.

        Quote  Reply

    141. ash,

      ut I also agree with Jon, the the lack of any reaction about his death and resurrection. It all happened, and then – nothing.

      That’s been my issue, not that Sansa is or is not leading the charge, but that the show has de-emphasized the resurrection, almost as if it had to happen, but they want to downplay it as much as possible and concentrate on other matters.

      And really at the end of the day, he will or will not be a Targaryen and that does not hinge on him dying and being brought back. Maybe it only served to release him from his NW vows. Although, as has been pointed out, most people will probably not believe it so he may still be throught a deserter.

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    142. Dee,

      Yes.. it was amazing.. I was much much younger than I am now … lol and I wish I had taken more advantages of learning the language but I also was raising a baby girl and working so I was limited on my free time to take up a difficult language like Japanese. But oh my… you want to talk about BEAUTIFUL country… it was just amazing. Climbed Mt. Fuji and that was just marvelous. Did you get to site see at all? Curious to what your thoughts were on the culture??

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    143. Jared,

      I have to admit the beautiful death releases are touch and go for me as far as liking them but this one is just AMAZING.. thanks for sharing.. I might have to download that and use it as my screen saver on my IPhone… LOVING It..

        Quote  Reply

    144. Ice Spider,

      Ah that sounds amazing!!!!
      Good for you though that must have been a great experience
      I was in the Guangdong province which is close to Hong Kong. We flew in and out of Hong Kong so I got to see some of that (not much though and it’s huge) . We took the ferry to China. The city I was in was not very interesting but stunning landscape and lakes and sites and parks. Not much time to do anything else or head north or anything.
      South China is a bit different from the north but for sure the culture is very different. I felt like I was an alien when I was walking cause I was stared at so much.. I am Mediterranean looking so big change for them plus I wasn’t in a touristic area. It’s also quite obvious how they’re closed out from the rest of the world . Interesting experience for sure.

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    145. Ice Spider: Yeah.. but he doesn’t KNOW the real truth either… when Jon and Sansa AND Davos show up to talk about the WW coming you don’t think that will motivate him to join? Im thinking he may after he hears what’s headed his way!! IJS

      Will Brienne be arguing that perspective? Will she be able to convince the Blackfish of that threat and how overwhelming it is? Perhaps.

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    146. Tycho Nestoris,

      I think the Waif’s face is available to be used…like Arya’s was when she pulled off a bunch of faces from *jaqen* who died.

      So I think Arya and the Waif are stuck in their training and not fully faceless men.
      The Waif wants in so badly and now Arya actually doesn’t.

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    147. So excited about next episode!
      Hoping for some awesome scenes in Riverrun, Braavos and the North! Don’t think Danny will turn up this episode.

      The Greyjoys in Volantis could be a very good dark horse for best scene. Am I the only one really hoping that Yara/Danny could happen?!?!? I think they would make a great match. Danny has stated she will never have children, so there’s no reason for her to keep only having male lovers.

      Crossing my fingers we don’t see Ramsay. It has been great not seeing him for two whole episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Dee,

      Yes I was in Japan back in the mid 80’s… I stuck out like a sore thumb too bc of my blonde hair and blue eyes.. I was there bc of military but once away from the base all the young kids would come up and try and use their English on me.. it was really just an amazing experience. I love traveling and hope to do it again in my twilight years… 😉 If Im still here to do that sort of thing. Thanks for sharing!!!

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    149. I agree that Sansa being emphasized more than Jon in a couple episodes feels odd, but it’s because Jon has never really had another character as “main” as Sansa in his storyline since season 1. What would we really want them to have added, just an extra conversation or two for Jon somewhere? I’m still hopeful that the last couple episodes will be massive for him. Sansa needs some moments each season too, she’s one of the main characters of the show whether everyone is happy about that or not. I wouldn’t take any Sansa moments away personally, but I’ll admit I’d have rather had a Jon scene than that redundant dragon speech with Daenerys last week.

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    150. Sou:
      Dee,

      Well, I was away for the first 4 episodes, no way to watch them on time; I had to drive 45 minutes in the desert to get to the nearest 4 star hotel with adequate connection, and I did that on Tuesdays, at the earliest… The things I do for love (of GOT).

      I’ll be in a cabin in the mountains for the finale this year. I’ve got my phone’s 3G/LTE hotspot, though, so I’m praying that will be enough to let me stream HBOGo, at least, if we don’t have WiFi.

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    151. Ginevra: Will Brienne be arguing that perspective?Will she be able to convince the Blackfish of that threat and how overwhelming it is?Perhaps.

      Ahhhh well I was thinking Sansa would have SOMETHING written for her Uncle to read about the dire circumstances but IDK.. there is so much going on off screen it’s so hard to know how it’s all going to play out.. Im am for sure SUPER PSYCHED for this show though…. same time same place??

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    152. Tycho Nestoris,

      I don’t think the Waif became Jaqen in episode 5.10, I think Jaqen was disguised as the Waif in that scene. The actor who plays Jaqen said in an interview that Jaqen is the one who blinded Arya. So the “real” Waif was simply not present in the blinding scene in episode 5.10.
      Plus the Waif this season is clearly the same person as the Waif last season since she has this very personal hatred of Arya that is apparent even in her scenes alone with Jaqen. So it can’t be some fake persona.

      That’s the way I see it anyway. But honestly the way the show has handled the Faceless Men doesn’t really make any sense whatsoever. The fact that there even is someone with Jaqen H’ghar’s face is silly. Why on earth is there a FM re-using that face ? Is it the same FM as the one Arya met in Season 2 ? If not how did he know to use that face and why would he care about using that face ? If it is the same guy, why did he appear as a black guy in episode 5.02, but thereafter only ever appears as Jaqen ? Clearly the show just wanted the actor back.

      And if we’re meant to believe the FM actually use physical faces, then how is it that the faces dissolve when they are removed ? In episode 5.10, Arya removes the face she was using before she jumps on Meryn, and the face just dissolves into thin air. Yet later when she returns to the House, she is holding the face in her hands.
      Then fake Jaqen kills himself (because teaching Arya a lesson is worth a life), and that person mysteriously has like 10 faces on, as well as Arya’s (how ?). Then the Waif is revealed to be “Jaqen” wearing the Waif’s face, but the corpse was initially wearing the Jaqen face, so how is this other guy now wearing it ?

      None of it makes any sense whatsoever, and it all makes my head hurt much more than the Bran-Hodor causal loop time travel business.

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    153. Ginevra,

      Yes but

      that was his position in the books as well until Jamie had the conversation with Edmure and then Edmure with the BF re Jamie sending the RR bannermen agains the castle first and razing the castle and killing everyone and sending Edmure’s baby to him via trebuchet

      however, as at least two houses have gone with the BF it might not turn out that way on the show. Based on the snippet from the trailer showing a celebration at the Twins, which I seem to recall involved Lannister men, I’m thinking he capitulates. But where it goes from there? It’s a long journey north and the Twins is between at least one of the major routes from RR to the North

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    154. Ginevra: I’ll be in a cabin in the mountains for the finale this year.I’ve got my phone’s 3G/LTE hotspot, though, so I’m praying that will be enough to let me stream HBOGo, at least, if we don’t have WiFi.

      Man… I am going to be in NC for the finale.. I was hoping for a season finale together.. 🙁 was going to ask about it later this weekend… oh fudge.. well that is a bummer..

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    155. rhymeswithweak,

      I agree except for the “waif” being in training. The original waif “body” is now Jaqen. Or am I alone on this?

      This new waif body has to be faceless because she’s using a face on the wall, right? As opposed to Arya who’s using her own face. Or is the new waif just further along than Arya but not Faceless?

      This all upsets me because “Jaqen” (and Jon), have both been “resurrected” with little to no cost.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Ice Spider: Well Im really wondering what is going on in Jaqen’s mind bc he MUST know that the Waif is really jealous.. he has interrupted her TWICE now doing things Im sure she wasn’t suppose to

      Plus she made the comment to Jaqen “you promised.” Would No One be allowed to have that much ego that they would expect promises to be made to them or kept? Only someone with a sense of self would expect promises to be made or kept. Not sure if that’s part of the Faceless Man playbook.

        Quote  Reply

    157. A Man Grown:
      I agree that Sansa being emphasized more than Jon in a couple episodes feels odd, but it’s because Jon has never really had another character as “main” as Sansa in his storyline since season 1. What would we really want them to have added, just an extra conversation or two for Jon somewhere? I’m still hopeful that the last couple episodes will be massive for him. Sansa needs some moments each season too, she’s one of the main characters of the show whether everyone is happy about that or not. I wouldn’t take any Sansa moments away personally, but I’ll admit I’d have rather had a Jon scene than that redundant dragon speech with Daenerys last week.

      I agree.. I think it will be a great balance once the season is over.. I think for us JS fans it’s been kinda slow for him this season so far BUT Im guessing (and hoping) the last two episodes will be epic for him and his arc.. crossing fingers and saying prayers.

        Quote  Reply

    158. Thronetender: Plus she made the comment to Jaqen “you promised.”Would No One be allowed to have that much ego that they would expect promises to be made to them or kept?Only someone with a sense of self would expect promises to be made or kept. Not sure if that’s part of the Faceless Man playbook.

      Well I find that very interesting bc of course Jaqen told Arya that No-one would ask questions so it makes sense to me that No-one would also NOT want to seek revenge on someone esp since Arya hasn’t really done anything AGAINST the waif to deserve that kind of reaction from her? I mean why so much hate? She obviously has issues and that is just not characteristically something No-one should have. I just have to trust that Jaqen KNOWS all of this and see’s past it.. just wondering why he’s allowing the Waif so much leniency? Just not sure it’s all so black and white here.. lol pun intended.

        Quote  Reply

    159. I really don’t get what all the fuss is about the “battle of the bastards” as an episode title. It was never a fan invention, it came directly from
      set reports during filming in saintfield so it’s likely source was from the script/ production crew.

        Quote  Reply

    160. rhymeswithweak:
      So I think I asked if Arya would be able to take the Waif’s face in an earlier post but I’m not sure if anyone really answered. Is that special magic she doesn’t know yet?

      Some people have mentioned that the Waif made a face when Frey was mentioned…thinking she might be related.

      Could Arya take her face and infiltrate the Frey house and off Walder? That would be cool.

      I desperately want Arya to either take faces with her from the Hall or to take the secret of making faces with her, to Westeros, preferably the latter. We do not know if she knows the secret yet. Jaqen mentioned a couple of episodes how that secret had been passed down, which to me hinted that we might get to see the secret shared with Arya, but not that is looking less and less likely.

      I rewatched the Frey scene, and it was actually two separate scenes spliced together: one with both the Waif and Arya standing and fighting and one with both sitting and discussing the list. Arya says Frey in the sitting scene but the Waif turns in the standing scene, so I doubt it means anything, after all. Unfortunately.

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    161. Markus Stark,

      Those questions make a lot of sense to me. Unfortunately, I am now more confused than before and yes, Bran/Hodor is easier to piece together than these assassins.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Apollo,

      Ok, it came from the script. No big surprise if that’s the title. Not sure how that invalidates the reasons people don’t like it !
      People aren’t saying it’s a fan invention, they’re saying it sounds like one. In other words, some think it sounds silly as an official title.

      At the end of the day it’s all subjective, and the title isn’t really important, but some titles are definitely more badass than others.
      “Battle of the Bastards” just sounds weird to me as an official title. That’s just this man’s opinion about the title of one episode in a fantasy series. It’s not a big deal if some people don’t share your appreciation of it, let it go mate.

        Quote  Reply

    163. I’m looking forward to see Simon Fraser, Lord Lovat and Jonathan (Frank) “Black Jack” Randall on this episode. And I hope that Jaimie is making a great deal!

        Quote  Reply

    164. Markus Stark:
      Tycho Nestoris,

      I don’t think the Waif became Jaqen in episode 5.10, I think Jaqen was disguised as the Waif in that scene. The actor who plays Jaqen said in an interview that Jaqen is the one who blinded Arya. So the “real” Waif was simply not present in the blinding scene in episode 5.10.
      Plus the Waif this season is clearly the same person as the Waif last season since she has this very personal hatred of Arya that is apparent even in her scenes alone with Jaqen. So it can’t be some fake persona.

      I agree the Waif is the same person bc she has the same hatred.

      That’s the way I see it anyway. But honestly the way the show has handled the Faceless Men doesn’t really make any sense whatsoever. The fact that there even is someone with Jaqen H’ghar’s face is silly. Why on earth is there a FM re-using that face ? Is it the same FM as the one Arya met in Season 2 ? If not how did he know to use that face and why would he care about using that face ? If it is the same guy, why did he appear as a black guy in episode 5.02, but thereafter only ever appears as Jaqen ? Clearly the show just wanted the actor back.

      I’m guessing they used a different person to answer the door just to prove the ability of the FM to be anyone. At least that is my guess… might have been too easy to have Jaqen answer the door .. it could have been a test to see if Arya was really serious too… make her think it was someone different so that she had to really think long and hard if she wanted to do that sort of training. Just guessing here. So your thoughts would be nice.

      Secondly Im guessing they use Jaqen’s as the main face bc he may be training both Arya and the Waif so perhaps they want to keep it simple for viewers reasons but in reality since it seems that both of them are in training (obviously the Waif is further along in hers) and perhaps that is the face they use for all the trainee’s? Again just speculation.

      And if we’re meant to believe the FM actually use physical faces, then how is it that the faces dissolve when they are removed ? In episode 5.10, Arya removes the face she was using before she jumps on Meryn, and the face just dissolves into thin air. Yet later when she returns to the House, she is holding the face in her hands.
      Then fake Jaqen kills himself (because teaching Arya a lesson is worth a life), and that person mysteriously has like 10 faces on, as well as Arya’s (how ?). Then the Waif is revealed to be “Jaqen” wearing the Waif’s face, but the corpse was initially wearing the Jaqen face, so how is this other guy now wearing it ?

      Im guessing this is part of the training to put away the face so fast like magicians use to deceive ppl by quick of hand movements.. pure speculation.. what do you think?

      None of it makes any sense whatsoever, and it all makes my head hurt much more than the Bran-Hodor causal loop time travel business.

        Quote  Reply

    165. Ginevra,

      I’m wondering… when she killed Meryn Trant didn’t she use a face? So wouldn’t that mean she knows that secret? How would she have used a face to fool him?

        Quote  Reply

    166. Markus Stark,

      Plenty of people here and elsewhere were dismissing the title as either fan fiction or sounding like fan fiction. And if it’s really no big deal then let’s move on, people.

        Quote  Reply

    167. Dee:
      Ginevra,

      Agreed
      Revealing RLJ doesn’t have much to do with how to defeat the NK though

      Well, I think it has everything to do with that. Jon is a prince. Jon is *the* prince. Of course, that gets a lot into book stuff which I’ll deliberately avoid, but even Show!Mel has called Jon the prince who was promised, and she doesn’t have any reason in the world to think he’s a prince. Mel believes (and lots of prophecies say) that this prince who was promised will be the one to defeat the Others and end the Long Night forever and that he’ll fight with Lightbringer. I’m assuming that once Jon knows who he is, he’ll embrace his destiny and find out how to defeat the NK using all of the prophecies for TPTWP and for Azor Ahai Reborn. There are many, and they will be helpful, I hope. Only by discovering his beginnings can he find and embrace his destiny.

        Quote  Reply

    168. Clob: I’ve read just about everything by Gaiman and Simmons.They’re both in my top 5 authors.Simmons could be my favorite.Have you read just Hyperion or the entire Hyperion Cantos?If that could get made into a movie or tv series I would be thrilled!I might have enjoyed his Illium/Olympos set even more though.That’s some brilliant stuff.

      Come here. Let me just pin this Medal of Excellent Taste on you. 🙂

      Joking aside, Simmons is a master. His Hyperion Cantos may just be my favorite SF saga.

        Quote  Reply

    169. Tycho Nestoris,

      I know.. I was trying to Italicize MY remarks bc I thought he used regular font.. then after all of my typing I posted and realized he used Italicized.. Arrrrrrrrrrgh…. foiled again.. sorry.. Except for the first response in which I agreed that the Waif was the same person my other remarks start off with “IM GUESSING”.. so hopefully that helps?

        Quote  Reply

    170. Ice Spider:
      Ginevra,

      I’m wondering… when she killed Meryn Trant didn’t she use a face? So wouldn’t that mean she knows that secret? How would she have used a face to fool him?

      She stole that face last season from the Hall of Faces. So she definitely knows how to apply a face once that face is made, but the secret lies in taking the face – or so I assume. She could steal some more faces, if only she had access, but I think it would be better for her to know the secret of taking faces because then she could become her enemies, as she kills them.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Ginevra: She stole that face last season from the Hall of Faces.So she definitely knows how to apply a face once that face is made, but the secret lies in taking the face – or so I assume.She could steal some more faces, if only she had access, but I think it would be better for her to know the secret of taking faces because then she could become her enemies, as she kills them.

      Yes… I understand.. you mean the art of pealing the face off? It looked as if we were getting a preview (sneak peak) last episode bc Jaqen was taking one off as the Waif asked to get her revenge. Interested in hearing your opinion on what your take is on that whole deal? Does Jaqen KNOW the Waif is also not worthy? Thus the face-off with Arya? I just can’t believe he doesn’t know her true motives? Curious??

        Quote  Reply

    172. Ice Spider,

      I have been there! Sometimes I get crazy using my phone and start editing with italics or adding spoiler tags and the timer is counting down…then all hell breaks loose and I’m like fukit. I can see now that you replied directly below each paragraph of Markus’.

      I think some of these decisions (like Jaqen being the trainer) were intended to simplify but after 5.10 really caused confusion (to me). I should go back and watch because I don’t remember the face dissolving after the Meryn kill. I am sure it happened cause you guys remember it, I just don’t remember it. I do remember Arya sneaking back in to replace the face.

        Quote  Reply

    173. Ice Spider:
      Tycho Nestoris,

      I know..I was trying to Italicize MY remarks bc I thought he used regular font.. then after all of my typing I posted and realized he used Italicized..

      Everything inside “blockquote” gets italicized, whether it was originally or not. So when you select to quote, that’ll happen.

        Quote  Reply

    174. Ice Spider: Yes… I understand.. you mean the art of pealing the face off? It looked as if we were getting a preview (sneak peak) last episode bc Jaqen was taking one off as the Waif asked to get her revenge. Interested in hearing your opinion on what your take is on that whole deal? Does Jaqen KNOW the Waif is also not worthy? Thus the face-off with Arya? I just can’t believe he doesn’t know her true motives? Curious??

      So the Waif did get to see the peeling, but not Arya last episode. And I suspect there is some magic applied to the process that we didn’t see, as well, but I could be wrong.

      A couple of episodes back, Jaqen said, “One way or another, a face will be added to the Hall.” Or something very similar. The implication was Lady Crane or Arya, but I think he might have meant Lady Crane or Arya *or* the Waif. I’m hoping he’d be happy with the Waif’s face. So this whole ordeal wasn’t just a test for Arya but also a test for the Waif. Arya has failed and cannot be a FM, but I think he’ll let her live if she bests the Waif. And I’m hoping that he’ll be even more magnanimous than that and throw some faces (or the secret) her way.

        Quote  Reply

    175. Faye Marsay cracked the FM men conundrum.

      Also, this Kit shaving thing is jarring to me. He looks like of like Brandon Lee/The Crow. Wait, Jon is a Crow too!

        Quote  Reply

    176. Ice Spider: Yes… I understand.. you mean the art of pealing the face off? It looked as if we were getting a preview (sneak peak) last episode bc Jaqen was taking one off as the Waif asked to get her revenge. Interested in hearing your opinion on what your take is on that whole deal? Does Jaqen KNOW the Waif is also not worthy? Thus the face-off with Arya? I just can’t believe he doesn’t know her true motives? Curious??

      I think we can be pretty sure Arya can peel off a face, in fact I’m pretty sure we’ve just recently seen the face she’s going to take.

        Quote  Reply

    177. Tycho Nestoris:
      Ice Spider,

      I have been there! Sometimes I get crazy using my phone and start editing with italics or adding spoiler tags and the timer is counting down…then all hell breaks loose and I’m like fukit. I can see now that you replied directly below each paragraph of Markus’.

      I think some of these decisions (like Jaqen being the trainer) were intended to simplify but after 5.10 really caused confusion (to me). I should go back and watch because I don’t remember the face dissolving after the Meryn kill. I am sure it happened cause you guys remember it, I just don’t remember it. I do remember Arya sneaking back in to replace the face.

      Well my thoughts on that is she was able to put the face away (slight of hand movement) and that we can’t see it bc she is so quick … I mean that can only be the only plausible explanation?? Otherwise how does one dissolve a real face only to make it appear again? Idk..that is part of the story that we may never get answered… like so many other q’s … just goes into a black hole to never be resolved. Part of this show that frustrates me is that they streamline SO MUCH we don’t always get the details answered and since I have only read three of the books Im not sure if its discussed in the books? Im guessing its not since I think Ginevra read the books so she would know for sure and she isn’t sure about that part either (I think)..

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    178. The Night’s Jester,

      I don’t want to get too excited but

      would taking Catelyn’s face be too much? I love LSH but I think Arya masquerading as LSH might appeal to me more. I have seen this *theory* mentioned a couple times already

      Ice Spider,
      Yeah, I think Arya’s story in the show is in WoW territory (as well as heavily adapted).

        Quote  Reply

    179. Ginevra: So the Waif did get to see the peeling, but not Arya last episode.And I suspect there is some magic applied to the process that we didn’t see, as well, but I could be wrong.

      A couple of episodes back, Jaqen said, “One way or another, a face will be added to the Hall.”Or something very similar.The implication was Lady Crane or Arya, but I think he might have meant Lady Crane or Arya *or* the Waif.I’m hoping he’d be happy with the Waif’s face.So this whole ordeal wasn’t just a test for Arya but also a test for the Waif.Arya has failed and cannot be a FM, but I think he’ll let her live if she bests the Waif.And I’m hoping that he’ll be even more magnanimous than that and throw some faces (or the secret) her way.

      YES YES and YES… at least that is my guess too.. Jaqen is testing BOTH of them to see who will win and maybe whomever the victor is (Arya let’s hope) she will get the secret given to her as a parting gift??? Lol… idk.. just really going to be exciting to see how it all plays out.

        Quote  Reply

    180. The Winter of Bastardfell:
      I think that Arya will kill the Waif in episode 8 by darkening a room to give herself an advantage that results from her blind training.All that blindness training with the Waif was for a reason!Arya will offer the Waif’s body to Jacquen to pay the death debt to the many-faced god, and then Jacquen will release her from her service/training since it is now obvious that Arya can never be “no one”.As others have noted, the Waif’s hatred of Arya meant that she also failed a test of being “no one”.This is what makes her death a suitable substitute in the eyes of the many-faced god.Another face will be added to the hall.

      This makes the most sense.

        Quote  Reply

    181. Tycho Nestoris:
      The Night’s Jester,

      I don’t want to get too excited but

      Ice Spider,
      Yeah, I think Arya’s story in the show is in WoW territory (as well as heavily adapted).

      Wooooooooooah… that would be pretty awesome.. not only would

      LSH fans get what they have been asking for (kinda).. but that would FREAK out some folks back in Frey country too!! I would LOVE that.. Take out some Freys with Cat’s face on..

      .

        Quote  Reply

    182. hexonx,

      You’re right it’s inverse. Jon was an crow and died. Brandon died and turned into a crow. Also, RIP Brandon. Still, a very sad story.

        Quote  Reply

    183. Mihnea:
      Markus Stark,

      Do you think that

      Ellaria and the SS will be easily convinced to join Dany’s forces? Or will she have to conquer Dorne as well? I’m surprised they havent’ declared for her already since they both despise the Lannisters and she can also legitimise one of Oberyn’s daughters. Also if Olenna is visiting Dorne does that mean that Marge will bite the dust or is she simply representing the crown in some sort of peace negotiations?

        Quote  Reply

    184. hexonx: Interesting that their belts are different and tied off on opposite sides.

      Well, was a Crow. 😉

      Would you mind elaborating on that? Spoilery coding if need be? Im curious as to what this means.. 😉 Salivating here!!

        Quote  Reply

    185. Myrmidon: Do you think that

      I think Dany

      will land in Dorne and NOT KL. I think they will see the dragons and the huge army she has and they will be like Eff it.. we are with her!! Lol.. but just guessing here.

      .

        Quote  Reply

    186. I’m not sure why people are so upset with the Jon/Sansa dynamic. Personally, Jon taking the back seat IS a form of character development in my opinion – you don’t need to have the most dialogue to be developing.

      Regarding all of the resurrection discussion (or lack thereof), I think it makes sense that they haven’t focused on it for a few reasons. First of all, it’s a TON to process, even for Mel, not just Jon. There can’t be any huge resolution/conversation of much substance when no one in the room really knows what to make of if. It needs time to marinate. Second, Jon is clearly going to play an increasingly pivotal role in the wars to come. His importance is inherently going to lead to him asking the, “why me” questions. We have another ~2 seasons; it’s more crucial that he has these introspective scenes closer to the climax of the series.

      Third, Sansa is great this season. Jon has always been one of the primary characters of the show since season 1, and given that won’t likely change in seasons 7/8, I think it’s okay for him to take a back seat for now. Stepping back from things is definitely what I would want to do if I was just murdered. It seems like the proper character choice, and a smart choice for the series as a whole. Just one man’s opinion 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    187. Ice Spider,

      No spoilers. Just though it was interesting. But the more I look at it, it appears Faye’s belt just got turned inside out a little. It actually appears to be the same belt. Since it is an “off-camera” pic I’m sure the belts looked the same during filming.

        Quote  Reply

    188. hexonx:
      Ice Spider,

      No spoilers.Just though it was interesting.But the more I look at it, it appears Faye’s belt just got turned inside out a little.It actually appears to be the same belt.Since it is an “off-camera” pic I’m sure the belts looked the same during filming.

      Okie… I was thinking there was some intricate storyline going on there… lol.. just a costume malfunction?

        Quote  Reply

    189. Markus Stark,

      Because its magic. Keep in mind the only person we actually see on the show taking a shit is Tywin, and thats only because he is being murdered by his son. Its safe to assume that all of these characters poop at least every couple of days, take a piss every once in a while etc, but for the sake of the story, they dont show every little thing, yet Im confident that all of these characters shit etc. Obvious I know. Same thing concerning the faceless men, the face masks yada yada. Its not important for the story development.

        Quote  Reply

    190. Ice Spider,

      I totally agree, Dany will most probably land there and then head to the crownlands. That could happen but i do think Varys will be the one to convince them ,let’s not forget that the Dornish were never conquered by the Targs so they are not easily intimidated by dragons and armies.

        Quote  Reply

    191. eejazz:
      I’m not sure why people are so upset with the Jon/Sansa dynamic. Personally, Jon taking the back seat IS a form of character development in my opinion – you don’t need to have the most dialogue to be developing.

      Regarding all of the resurrection discussion (or lack thereof), I think it makes sense that they haven’t focused on it for a few reasons. First of all, it’s a TON to process, even for Mel, not just Jon. There can’t be any huge resolution/conversation of much substance when no one in the room really knows what to make of if. It needs time to marinate. Second, Jon is clearly going to play an increasingly pivotal role in the wars to come. His importance is inherently going to lead to him asking the, “why me” questions. We have another ~2 seasons; it’s more crucial that he has these introspective scenes closer to the climax of the series.

      Third, Sansa is great this season. Jon has always been one of the primary characters of the show since season 1, and given that won’t likely change in seasons 7/8, I think it’s okay for him to take a back seat for now. Stepping back from things is definitely what I would want to do if I was just murdered. It seems like the proper character choice, and a smart choice for the series as a whole. Just one man’s opinion

      but then why are they wasting so much time with dany this season so far, its like most of her scenes get repeated all the time, doing speeches, burning things down…

        Quote  Reply

    192. Nymeria Warrior Queen: Maybe it’s silly of me, but I’d love for Dany to land on Dragonstone, first…even if it’s just a pit-stop.

      Hopefully she gets the memo about Dragonglass as we know Stannis said there was a lot at Dragonstone. Can you imagine the Unsullied with Dragonglass spears and the Dothraki with Dragonglass arrows?

        Quote  Reply

    193. Ice Spider,

      I don’t think so.
      I truly think D&D are doing everything they can to end Dorne as fast as they can.
      And remember, Bryan Cogman confirmed on the DVD release that Dorne (as late as s4) was never in their plan, and it was only when he pitched the idea of Jamie going there, that it happened. I don’t think it will play a pivotal role such as being the landing ground for Dany

        Quote  Reply

    194. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      Well, we do know the Blackfish took at least one piss. 🙂

      Ice Spider,

      Maybe it’s silly of me, but I’d love for Dany to land on Dragonstone, first…even if it’s just a pit-stop.

      Well I don’t know what would be there (theres no army there or anyone of interest as far as I know) for her except the history of it, but that could be interesting but like I said in another post

      I’m guessing Dorne so they can tie that part of the story up… I just can’t see how Dorne can be left out of the end war? And this would give the SS the opportunity to get back at the Lannisters in force..

      .

        Quote  Reply

    195. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      Thanks for the irrelevant comment. I know some people love to talk about shit, but that really was an unnecessary and pointless digression, mate.

      Anyway, I know it’s magic. As you can tell many of us are simply trying to understand some of what’s going on, in particular with respect to the Waif. We want to understand what’s going on with that character and her irrational hatred of Arya, and if the Waif in Season 5 is the same person as the Waif in Season 6.
      If that conversation doesn’t interest you, then don’t participate in it. If you aren’t interested in thinking about things and discussing them with the community, and would rather just accept everything you see on screen, then don’t bother to stick your nose in conversations that don’t appeal to you. It’s really simple.

      I also don’t subscribe to the absurd view that if something isn’t important for the story development then it’s perfectly acceptable for it to be nonsensical.

        Quote  Reply

    196. taim: but then why are they wasting so much time with dany this season so far, its like most of her scenes get repeated all the time, doing speeches, burning things down…

      “Wasting time” I guess is subjective and it’s not like the speech scene was all that long. While her scenes may be similar to scenes from previous seasons they have achieved different goals.

        Quote  Reply

    197. HelloThere:
      Ice Spider,

      I don’t think so.
      I truly think D&D are doing everything they can to end Dorne as fast as they can.
      And remember, Bryan Cogman confirmed on the DVD release that Dorne (as late as s4) was never in their plan, and it was only when he pitched the idea of Jamie going there, that it happened.I don’t think it will play a pivotal role such as being the landing ground for Dany

      Okie.. thanks for that inside info. I obviously didn’t know about that conversation Cogman had. I just thought that since Dorne is part of the seven Kingdoms that they would have a pivotal role in the war… so you don’t think they get involved at all? So where does Dany land then? KL? I suppose depending on how long it takes her to actually head out to Westeros would determine where she lands? Idk.. this is part of the story Im clueless on … all I want is a climatic landing.. I mean chaos and all hell breaking loose when the people see her dragons flying overhead and see all of her ships… I hope it’s EPIC.

        Quote  Reply

    198. Myrmidon,

      Didn’t know that… I know there is some massive spoiler leaks, but im trying hard (and believe me its hard..) to stay away from them

        Quote  Reply

    199. eejazz:
      I’m not sure why people are so upset with the Jon/Sansa dynamic. Personally, Jon taking the back seat IS a form of character development in my opinion – you don’t need to have the most dialogue to be developing.

      Regarding all of the resurrection discussion (or lack thereof), I think it makes sense that they haven’t focused on it for a few reasons. First of all, it’s a TON to process, even for Mel, not just Jon. There can’t be any huge resolution/conversation of much substance when no one in the room really knows what to make of if. It needs time to marinate. Second, Jon is clearly going to play an increasingly pivotal role in the wars to come. His importance is inherently going to lead to him asking the, “why me” questions. We have another ~2 seasons; it’s more crucial that he has these introspective scenes closer to the climax of the series.

      Third, Sansa is great this season. Jon has always been one of the primary characters of the show since season 1, and given that won’t likely change in seasons 7/8, I think it’s okay for him to take a back seat for now. Stepping back from things is definitely what I would want to do if I was just murdered. It seems like the proper character choice, and a smart choice for the series as a whole. Just one man’s opinion 🙂

      Agreed. I don’t get why it can’t be a big season for Sansa AND Jon. Sure, we’ve not really gone into his post resurrection stuff in any great detail but he’s got a pretty huge few eps coming up and there’s been a lot of other stuff going down.

      Besides, moaning about Jon taking a back seat to Sansa on the basis of one shared scene (when in fact his scenes in S6 have been more extensive than Sansas), one photo and a 30sec trailer from next Sunday’s episode is a bit bizarre IMO.

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    200. Ice Spider,

      I think there is a good chance Dany will land in Dorne. Dorne was poorly received last year, but if they were going to write it off as a failed experiment it would have made a lot more sense for Doran to execute Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Then everything could have been more or less back to normal, and you could have pretty much ignored it from then on in. Dorne will definitely play a part, albeit a small one, but a part nonetheless.

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    201. Ice Spider: Okie.. thanks for that inside info. I obviously didn’t know about that conversation Cogman had. I just thought that since Dorne is part of the seven Kingdoms that they would have a pivotal role in the war… so you don’t think they get involved at all? So where does Dany land then? KL? I suppose depending on how long it takes her to actually head out to Westeros would determine where she lands? Idk.. this is part of the story Im clueless on … all I want is a climatic landing.. I mean chaos and all hell breaking loose when the people see her dragons flying overhead and see all of her ships… I hope it’s EPIC.

      I’m not saying it won’t happen in the show but I think it’s much more likely Dany lands in Dorne in the books, where Dorne is much more involved in the story than it is in the show.

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    202. hexonx: Hopefully she gets the memo about Dragonglass as we know Stannis said there was a lot at Dragonstone.Can you imagine the Unsullied with Dragonglass spears and the Dothraki with Dragonglass arrows?

      I wasn’t even thinking in those terms, just that I’d like her to stop by Dragonstone, since that’s where Aegon the Conquerer first landed, and it’s also where she was born. Now that you mention it, though, even if she doesn’t get the dragonglass memo, at first, it would be pretty easy for her to get back and forth from dragonstone if she’s flying, so she could always go back and get some. I love the thought of the Unsullied having dragonglass spears and arrows.

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    203. taim: but then why are they wasting so much time with dany this season so far, its like most of her scenes get repeated all the time, doing speeches, burning things down…

      1) they’ve got to get her out of Essos
      2) she doesn’t have anyone by her side to steal the spotlight
      3) she’s feeling empowered, not suffering some resurrection-induced existential crisis

      I agree her story has been a little redundant though. I’m optimistic that were working toward some big changes starting with S7

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    204. Knight of the Walkers:
      Ice Spider,

      I think there is a good chance Dany will land in Dorne. Dorne was poorly received last year, but if they were going to write it off as a failed experiment it would have made a lot more sense for Doran to execute Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. Then everything could have been more or less back to normal, and you could have pretty much ignored it from then on in. Dorne will definitely play a part, albeit a small one, but a part nonetheless.

      Lol.. okie.. . I was thinking it HAS to have some kind of role.. after all they are one of the seven kingdoms.. even it’s been a small kingdom and not gotten a lot of screen time.. anyway my thoughts were it makes more sense for her to land there but Im just speculating and really don’t know. Either way like I said in post above this one. I just want it to be EPIC… show of force. See me roar kind of moment.. lol even if it has to be Drogon roaring.. and wouldn’t it be cool if she RODE a dragon into the place she lands?

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    205. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I’d like her to stop by Dragonstone, since that’s where Aegon the Conquerer first landed, and it’s also where she was born.

      Agreed. It would be a nice moment in that regard as well. After all, that is why she is known as “Stormborn.” So it would work in both an abstract way and a practical way if she landed at Dragonstone.

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    206. Speculation about Jon’s episode

      An advantage of merging Benjen with Coldhands is he can get through the Wall the way Sam did so presumably he can take Bran and Meera to Winterfell? What if they get to Winterfell after the battle, Bran plugs into the old tree and takes Jon with him to the Tower of Joy for part 2. It just needs an outside setting up shot and the rest would have been filmed on an inside set. It would be amazing for Jon to actually see it rather than be told about it and know beyond doubt.

      Re Jon/Sansa
      While this season has been terrific and exciting, they missed the boat a bit having got a semi-dream team together – Jon, Sansa, Davos, Mel, Brienne, Pod, Tormund, Edd – and not had a few more discussions about various things. Those characters know a lot!

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    207. Mihnea:
      Markus Stark,

      Apollo:
      I really don’t get what all the fuss is about the “battle of the bastards” as an episode title. It was never a fan invention, it came directly from
      set reports during filming in saintfield so it’s likely source was from the script/ production crew.

      I thought the set leaks were calling it “The Battle of the Six Armies” as a play on the similar LOTR title. It was only when that leaked out that fans came out with “BastardBowl,” “SnowBowl,” and “Battle of the Bastards” to my recollection.

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    208. Myrmidon,

      I’m just going to respond to this because it keeps popping up. We NEVER had any on-set confirmation that Varys

      (or Olenna) goes to Dorne! At all! The actors stayed at the same hotel as the Dorne cast at the same time, but that proves absolutely nothing since the area served as multiple locations.

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    209. Nymeria Warrior Queen: I love the thought of the Unsullied having dragonglass spears and arrows.

      LOL at this point I love the thought of ANYone having access to dragonglass anything, spears, arrows, sword tips, don’t care, just get that stuff distributed.

      After seeing Randyll and Dickon Tarly last week, and how they scoffed at the idea of White Walkers, I started wondering just how far south the WW would get. I’d love to see an army of wights chasing Dickon through those lavish halls. Well, maybe not the halls, because that would mean Sam’s mother and sister would be in mortal danger and I liked them. But I sure would love to see a WW on an Undead horse shrieking at old Randyll. Alas, probably won’t happen, but still, how far south does anyone think they’ll get?

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    210. Lol I pop on to see what’s what and I see mention of filming spoilers n such. I love book spoilers. But hate the other. It spoils both, effectively.

      Early in season 2 I foolishly googled Robb and spoiled myself on his death. Gah!! It hurt cos I was spoiled but also cos he was ma totes fave. The King in the Effing North!!! Vengeance was on my mind n he was on path to honour his father EPIC STYLE. Sigh. I was a sweet summer child.

      I banned myself from the Internets for got and grrm stuff until all the books were done!! It was a mission but I did it. Then found WiC n APoIaF n ALL the rest, n the rest (wot) is history. Just like many others I suppose.

      My point was 😛 I gonna hide more than usual i thinks. Wanna max my enjoyment of this remaining roller coaster oh em gee I’m so fucking hyped and reading u lot doesn’t help 😀

      Except Sundays ofc nowt like reading a manic chat after the show lol 🙂 bit drunk bored of typing now HUGS

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    211. Thronetender: After seeing Randyll and Dickon Tarly last week, and how they scoffed at the idea of White Walkers, I started wondering just how far south the WW would get. I’d love to see an army of wights chasing Dickon through those lavish halls. Well, maybe not the halls, because that would mean Sam’s mother and sister would be in mortal danger and I liked them. But I sure would love to see a WW on an Undead horse shrieking at old Randyll. Alas, probably won’t happen, but still, how far south does anyone think they’ll get?

      That would be nice as I would love to see Dickon’s jaw drop at the site of a White Walker. But realistically if they get that far south I think that would mean the “good guys” lost. I see them maybe getting to King’s Landing at the furthest.

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    212. I’m keeping the faith that there IS a big episode for Jon that isn’t the battle. Kit never said Hardhome was a huge episode for him, not did he say season 5 was huge for him. After lying that much and seemingly miserable about it, I don’t think he’s misdirecting again.

      I think there WILL be some big character moments for Jon. Even though Sansa is taking the lead, Jon is still leading the army. The North isn’t going to let Jon sit around quietly. If anything, they’ll demand to hear from him. And there will be big decisions to be made – and I’m just assuming as I think we all are that Jon and co. win the battle, not Ramsay – both before and after the battle. I don’t think Sansa is going to make them all. I think she wants to be heard, but I don’t believe she expects to be queen.

      In the books, Jon is Robb’s heir. I think the show won’t or CAN’T diverge that dramatically, especially since Sansa DOESN’T marry Ramsay in the books. If there’s a Warden in the North at the end of this, it’s going to be Jon. Plus with Jon being King Crow, etc, who knows, he could be King in the North? Holy hell I just excited myself beyond belief.

      I still think the TOJ reveal and Jon’s big episode has to be episode 10. I just don’t believe Kit is talking about a battle. He’s done those before – vs. Wildlings + Hardhome. He’s never portrayed those the way he’s talked about this season.

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    213. If Theon is in bravos he better explain what he did faster than he did to Sansa because if Arya sees him he might be dead before he gets a chance to explain!

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    214. Thronetender,

      Well they will most definitely reach Harrenhal IMO. I do believe the rest of Westeros will begin taking the WW threat seriously once the Northern front collapses and they (WW) cross the Twins.

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    215. I put this comment in the earlier thread about Episode 7, but as I was commenter #2,478 or so, I’ve posted it here as I’d like to see WotW thoughts about this. My post has to do with last year’s photos of Maisie’s filming

      the Braavos chase scenes. She’s shown wearing the outfit shown in these photos when she’s in the water (in Northern Ireland). In the shots of her running from the Waif, however, (filmed in Spain) she’s wearing a loose gray shirt. The Waif looks predictably “Waify,” but she’s brandishing a bloody knife. Whose blood is it?
      As Episode 8’s title appears to have been confirmed as “No One” and as Mark Mylod is the director, could we be seeing Arya’s Waif confrontation (and/or her [insert fingers-crossed emoji here] escape from Braavos in Episodes 7 and 8?

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    216. Tycho Nestoris,

      Yes, yes I am. Is it really crucial to the storyline the inner workings of how the faceless men work? Nit picky to the extreme. Im sure there can be an entire HBO series dedicated to just that.

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    217. Sou:
      The Winter of Bastardfell,

      Not that I object or anything, it is just that if I remember correctly this Sunday’s synopsis states something like “Arya has a plan”. If the waif doesn’t show up to get killed (hopefully) this episode, what kind of plan will Arya work out over a whole episode, in the dark?

      Here’s the plan. Arya beats the Waif, and takes her face (because the Waif is wearing one, just like suicide Ja’qen was). She then goes back and offs the current Ja’qen so that no one can give the order to put a hit out on her for leaving. It’s the Waif done it!

      Just kidding. But it is a “plan” of sorts. 😁

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    218. Laura:
      I thought the set leaks were calling it “The Battle of the Six Armies” as a play on the similar LOTR title. It was only when that leaked out that fans came out with “BastardBowl,” “SnowBowl,” and “Battle of the Bastards” to my recollection.

      I think that was another term doing the rounds. But seeing as BOTB is likely the episode title, it stands to reason that this indeed came directly from production info.

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    219. Why not call the episode “Winterfell”, much like Blackwater, instead of something with Bastard in it? I don’t mind either way. Just saying.

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    220. Markus Stark,

      “But honestly the way the show has handled the Faceless Men doesn’t really make any sense whatsoever. The fact that there even is someone with Jaqen H’ghar’s face is silly. Why on earth is there a FM re-using that face ? Is it the same FM as the one Arya met in Season 2 ? If not how did he know to use that face and why would he care about using that face ? If it is the same guy, why did he appear as a black guy in episode 5.02, but thereafter only ever appears as Jaqen ? … And if we’re meant to believe the FM actually use physical faces, then how is it that the faces dissolve when they are removed ? In episode 5.10, Arya removes the face she was using before she jumps on Meryn, and the face just dissolves into thin air. Yet later when she returns to the House, she is holding the face in her hands. … None of it makes any sense whatsoever, and it all makes my head hurt much more than the Bran-Hodor causal loop time travel business.”

      Take it easy, its all in jest. After reading through all of that quoted above, I just frankly think you are overthinking it. Its not that delving into the history or workings of the faceless men, or other groups isnt interesting, its just that there is artistic and creative license in making the TV show, and naturally there are going to be some things, that if you try to approach it from a scientific point of view, arent going to make sense.

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    221. Nadia,

      I think the only way Jon ends up Warden of the North is if all the other Starks die. Sure, he could be acting Warder of the North until Rickon comes of age, should Rickon survive, but we also now know Bran will probably be heading back south of the Wall, and if he survives, he’ll be heir to Winterfell and Warden of the North. Moreover,

      Robb names Jon his heir because he thinks Bran and Rickon are dead, Arya’s likely dead, and Sansa is basically a captive of the Lannisters.

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    222. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      It’s fine if you don’t think it’s crucial. Personally, I do.
      It’s not like I am asking how Brienne rode through leagues of enemy territory in the snow. Jaqen hints at a secret to changing faces in season 6. When he leaves Arya at Harrenhall he says something similar as well. I don’t find it nit picky at all. Every character has to eat. Not every character can change their face.

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    223. Tycho Nestoris,

      Fair enough 🙂 You just seemed to be really trying to figure it out, and I thought that it was probably just glossed over for the sake of the show. GRRM probably has a very good explanation, but the way the show went about showing some of those scenes, that you discussed, they left things a mess when left to scrutiny.

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    224. HelloThere: I think this episode will probably feature Sansa more than Jon….

      My bet is that both will be prominent, as both will have to justify actions that have antagonized people that they want as allies.

      Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: Im sure there can be an entire HBO series dedicated to just that

      Yeah, that would just be a ratings’ smash right there….

      Thronetender: Alas, probably won’t happen, but still, how far south does anyone think they’ll get?

      Fairly far south, I should think. As (I think) Nymeria Warrior Queen noted,

      Daeny has a vision consistent with them being at the Trident.

      The other question is: how long will it take for the Andal-derived Westerosi to accept that this threat is real? In many ways, the Northerners are going to be put in the same place as the Wildlings: they will be fleeing south, and this could easily be interpreted as an invasion. They can repeat the claim that the Walkers and Wights are real until they are blue in the face. The Northerners at least accept that Walkers used to exist: and it will be easier for them to process the evidence in this light. But the Andals have no stories about the Father choosing a Hero to fight ice demons, the Warrior training him, the Smith forging him a great sword and the Stranger empowering it to actually hurt demons, or something like that. They might even initially think that wights are some sort of northern trick.

      Unfortunately for the bad guys ( 😉 ), their civil war and the onset of a harsh winter would be a perfect recipe for mistrust and misunderstandings.

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    225. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      True I am🙂. Markus asked a lot of relevant questions. The whole reason I watch the show and read the books is to speculate and discover. The idea of introducing a mystery (inception style no less with all the face layers and who’s who?) and then abandoning it to vague magic is going to stand out to me and I am going to pick at until an explanation works (for me).

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    226. Myrmidon: Well they will most definitely reach Harrenhal IMO

      Wow, that would be excellent, Harrenhal is not too far from either Kings Landing or from the Reach. And the validity of the news about the WW cant help but reach the ears of those in either place. Which means we might see both Randyll and Dickon riding out to save the rest of Westeros from WW and taking them on in person. Ha, take that you mean old man.

      And wouldn’t it be just wonderful if bookish Sam, the shame of Horn Hill because he wanted to be such a “worthless” thing as a Maester, comes up with the answer as to how to defeat them? I still don’t think it would make Randyll love Sam, but it might be good for some grudging respect from the tyrant. Ah, one can dream.. Such is the nature of my dreams in the time of Game of Thrones.

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    227. Looking forward to the speech, which should be wonderful coming from Ian McShane, if that is indeed the case. I imagine we’d get it, since Cogman is writing (Cogman is getting some horrendous abuse on Twitter right now, though, from book purists and trolls. I feel sorry for the guy.)

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    228. Tycho Nestoris,

      I dont remember the girls face dissolving, but yeah, if Arya put it back on the wall, the question begs, where did it go? Its a detail I missed, and certainly didnt have any real effect on the storyline, but sure, how does that work? Frankly, how does sticking the face of a dead person over yours work exactly? Magic of course, but yeah. The whole concept is rather creepy anyway.

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    229. Valaquen: Cogman is getting some horrendous abuse on Twitter right now, though, from book purists and trolls. I feel sorry for the guy.

      That sucks that’s still happening. 🙁 (It’s really sad the lengths some will go to to feel important, or whatever the fuck their reasoning is behind that kind of crap.)

      Speaking of twitter, I ran across the twtter account of James Faulkner reading through WotW twitter stuff. He seems to be a lovely man with a great sense of humor!

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    230. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      None of the Starks can be Warden of the North because the Crown is the one who appoints the wardens, from what I remember. Cersei agrees to name LF Warden of the North in exchange for taking out the Boltons. LF tries to convince Sansa to go to Winterfell in S5, so that Stannis will name her Wardeness if he wins against the Boltons. The Boltons were given the position by the Lannisters/Crown.

      If the Starks are back in Winterfell, the North will most likely have to secede again like they did under Robb and declare a king or queen. So if the North wants Jon to lead them, he will.

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    231. OT……I just came back from watching the movie Me Before You, starring Emily Clark (and Charles Dance!) I know there are fans who really don’t like her, they don’t like the character, and they don’t think she is a good actor. Well, I can tell you right now that anything wrong with the character has nothing to do with her acting. She was splendid in this film. A problem with the writing and material she was given? Probably. But she is a fine actor and I won’t let anyone put her down (and btw yes its a tear jerker and well worth watching!!) OK /OT

        Quote  Reply

    232. Flayed Potatoes,

      I don’t think the North would chose Jon, at least not as long as any Stark heirs remain alive. Nadia mentioned

      Robb’s will. The only reason Robb wrote that will in the books is because he thought Jon was really the only one left (thinking both Bran and Rickon dead, Arya most likely dead, and Sansa in the hands of the Lannisters.

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    233. Dee,

      I can’t remember whether it’s been said on the show, or if it’s only mentioned in the books. I don’t think of it as a spoiler, but it could be non-show info, so I’ll put it under code, just in case you decide you don’t want to know.

      Old Valyria

      Shit. Of course, it just occurred to me saying where Aegon the Conquerer landed is book-info, too…unless it was mentioned on the show. I hope it was. If not, sorry.

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    234. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Northerners also follow strength and if he’s the one leading them into battle, they might follow him. They also live in a feudal society (and are in times of war), so they might prefer Jon over Sansa (who she marries again can be a problem, which is why

      Robb’s will existed in the first place).

      She’s also a wanted criminal after Joffrey’s poisoning. Arya is missing and Bran is crippled and can’t have heirs.

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    235. Valaquen,

      OMG like what???????

      FYI after last years ABSURD REACTION to episode 6 – he got some major abuse from people OVER a fictional character (lolssssssss) – this year he tweeted out at the beginning of the season that he was turning off all notifications from people he does not follow

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    236. I like Jon taking a backseat to Sansa’s lead.

      I take it as Jon following his liege lord (or in this case, lady). It’ll be interesting though when Sansa learns of Jon’s true parentage and how the power dynamic may change. Will Sansa and the rest of the North bend the knee to Targaryen rule? Will Jon even want the Iron Throne? If Jon accepts his Targaryen parentage, how will Sansa and Dany treat each other, let alone Dany and Jon? I don’t know but I can hardly wait to find out!!

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    237. Ice Spider,

      I love traveling and hope to do it again in my twilight years…

      Do NOT wait for your twilight years!! I did lots of traveling for a while and loved it, went many places but I still have a list a mile long that I want to see. Life sort of got in the way, I got busy, and left off lots of travel I wanted to do. Unfortunately age has made traveling more than a bit challenging, so I wont be able to see many of the foriegn places I want to. . Wish I did more when I could have So go now, don’t wait!

      Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      After reading through all of that quoted above, I just frankly think you are overthinking it. Its not that delving into the history or workings of the faceless men, or other groups isnt interesting, its just that there is artistic and creative license in making the TV show, and naturally there are going to be some things, that if you try to approach it from a scientific point of view, arent going to make sense.

      This. If you try to make sense of a fantasy story, you’ll drive yourself crazy Yeah there’s a lot to wonder about and consider. but don’t expect answers to everything. You wont find them. Its all just specualtion to talk about. I find it very cool, actually, that such a place exists, where you can change your face and become someone else (or no one I guess). What I wonder about is if you change your face, does your body change as well? Coz someone can probably recognize a person by their shape, way they walk and hold themselves, even if they are wearing a dif face, kwim? Actually my thought is that there are many more FMs floating around that no one knows about. I suspect Jacquen is the trainer for newbies and answers to others. He did give some of the history to Ayra, but given the lying games they due, Im not sure if they are true….

      I do wonder if there isn’t a D&D video about the FM like they have of other segments of the world, or maybe GRRM explained it somewhere,anyone know?

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    238. ash,

      Thank you!!!!!!

      Don’t think it’s the material – it’s just how dany is to be portrayed

      And I want to see it also 🙂 can’t wait

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    239. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      It’s okay – book info that probably doesn’t affect future things in the show
      Also – it’s probably in the histories stuff they release with the DVDs
      Thank you 🙂

      Edit: it has been mentioned in the show before as others have said

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    240. Flayed Potatoes,

      They might want him, I’m not saying it’s impossible. I just think they will choose a Stark, as long as one remains, over Jon.

      When Robb’s will was written, he believed both Bran and Rickon dead. If he’d known both his brothers were alive, he wouldn’t have needed to write the will.

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    241. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      The will is not going to make it on the show imo.

      Rickon is dead man walking for me. Being Ramsay’s prisoner can’t be good.

      Bran can’t have heirs and seems more preoccupied with magic and his powers anyway. We also don’t know how he’ll use the information he finds out from the Tower of Joy. Honestly, it wouldn’t surprise me if he just supports Jon when he returns because he knows he needs Jon to lead them against the WW.

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    242. Flayed Potatoes,

      I don’t think it will make it on the show, either, but Nadia mentioned it in her post, so I was addressing that. As for the other two, you could very, very well be right, but I’m trying to base things on what we know at this moment

      both Bran and Rickon are alive. Inability to produce an heir aside, I’m not so sure Bran, if he lives, will be in any condition to rule. By that I mean he’ll likely be too much out of this world, for lack of a better way of putting it. As for Rickon, well, it’s probably a vain hope, but I’m keeping hope alive he’ll survive.

      That last part probably doesn’t need to be under code, but I’d rather use code unnecessarily, than not use it when I should.

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    243. ash:
      OT……I just came back from watching the movie Me Before You, starring Emily Clark (and Charles Dance!)I know there are fans who really don’t like her, they don’t like the character, and they don’t think she is a good actor.Well, I can tell you right now that anything wrong with the character has nothing to do with her acting.She was splendid in this film.A problem with the writing and material she was given? Probably.But she is a fine actor and I won’t let anyone put her down (and btw yes its a tear jerker and well worth watching!!)OK /OT

      Cool! My thirteen year-old has read the book in anticipation of seeing the movie – and she’s even read “After You,” as well. We were going to go this afternoon, but the ten year-old was sick so we’re going tomorrow afternoon. I’m so glad you loved it.

      As soon as Anne had me Google the trailer, I was like, you know who that is, right? She never got Khaleesi, and I barely got Charles Dance, but she did get the Doctor Who companion. Both of us thought the dude was familiar but couldn’t place him as Finn from the Hunger Games until we IMDbed the movie.

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    244. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I don’t know when to use code either lol.

      I agree. I think Bran is going to be really troubled after his experiences in the cave. 🙁 The show didn’t have time to get into it this week because Bran and Meera had to escape, but things will eventually sink in I think.

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    245. Ginevra,

      That’s lovely of you, although you doing something lovely isn’t at all surprising.

      Seriously, though, what kind of fucking infants take pride in being so obnoxious they get blocked? Not to mention, what kind of fucking infants need to whine so badly, they whine about GoT in response to tweets having nothing to do with GoT, then when Cogman mentions that’s kinda lame (paraphrasing…he’s unbelievable good-natured about it), do it even more??? SMFH

      /rant

      I had to explain to a friend of mine why Sunday was the only day over the weekend I’d be unavailable. I admit, stepping outside myself for a moment and listening to my explanation, I had a good laugh at myself. 🙂

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    246. ash: This. If you try to make sense of a fantasy story, you’ll drive yourself crazy

      The rules are no different for fantasy stories than for others. (The fact that most epic fantasies are incompressible is one reason why the genre gets so little respect: but that’s a separate issue.) M,B&W’s job (or jobs are) the same as any other novelists or show runners. Here, we are not talking about story, but about plot. Guns are important to the plots of many fictional works. However, you don’t explain how a gun works in most fictional works, and it’s not important that the audience knows. It is important that a gun or car or airplane that is important later in the tale be presented earlier in the tale. If you have a character whip out a gun in key situation that he/she never is written or shown to have prior to that situation, then this is basically Deus ex Machina. Similarly, if you have characters suddenly use magic or magical creatures that never appeared in the story prior to that point, then this is basically Deus ex Machina.

      So, we really do not need to know how Faceless Men change faces anymore than we need to know how guns or airplanes or cars work in normal fiction. We do (or did) need to be told that Faceless Men can change faces before it becomes important. They’ve shown us that. Now they can use it without people complaining: “now that Character X needs to look different, the world magically has that sort of magic?!?!”

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    247. ash,

      I’m sorry, I don’t know. I don’t have twitter, or facebook, or any of that kind of thing. I do read some twitter accounts, though. I check WotW’s twitter feed…there’s all kinds of good stuff on there, and that’s led me to being aware of other twitter accounts. Things like people bothering Cogman the way they have been and are make me kind of want to start an account, but I know myself too well. I’d start one with the intention of saying nice things to people I appreciate, but a day would roll around where my mood was such that I’d start fighting with assholes who do things like stalk and troll Cogman, and that just isn’t a rabbit hole I wanna go down.

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    248. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      He also tweeted he wasn’t seeing notifications from peiole he does not follow

      Someone responded “hiding from criticism so you can write fanfic”

      Insults and name calling he received isn’t criticism lol!!! I don’t think he gives a shit what the ASOIAF fandom think. But last year I saw some tweets calling him a garbage human and rape lover or something. Don’t think he wants to see that

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    249. Flayed Potatoes: If the Starks are back in Winterfell, the North will most likely have to secede again like they did under Robb and declare a king or queen. So if the North wants Jon to lead them, he will.

      This is correct: Wardens basically are like Colonial Governors. It’s a small issue in the books: Ned is very upset when Robert appoints Tywin to be Warden of the East, but because it is not a hereditary office, and because Robyn is a child, Robert had to appoint someone competent.

      It could be that when the dust settles, Daeny will reappoint whichever Stark is left as Warden of the North. However, my bet is that it’s not going to be a pressing issue!

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    250. Dee: I don’t think he gives a shit what the ASOIAF fandom think.

      heh, even before Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, it was a running joke that if an adaptation of a book was any good, then pre-existing fans of the book would hate it!

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    251. Wimsey,

      It is important that a gun or car or airplane that is important later in the tale be presented earlier in the tale. If you have a character whip out a gun in key situation that he/she never is written or shown to have prior to that situation, then this is basically Deus ex Machina. Similarly, if you have characters suddenly use magic or magical creatures that never appeared in the story prior to that point, then this is basically Deus ex Machina.

      Um I agree with all that, and that we don’t need to know what the HOBW is and how it works. Just saying that trying to figure out every little detail is not necessary. Tho it is fun to speculate, you can’t expect to know everything in the plot. Thats why these threads have e hundreds of posts!

      I am not sure I totally agree with you about the rules for plots being the same across genres, and if those rules must always be followed to make a good story. I get the Chekov gun, and generally agree. But do all plots in all genres really need to follow that rule? Im thinking there are examples where they don’t, tho of course can’t name one story off hand.

      Im also interested in the difference between story and plot – I think you’ve explained it before and perhaps this is not the right thread to do so. Is there a good link to a book/website/whatever that explains more? Thx

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    252. Nymeria Warrior Queen: Thronetender,
      In many ways, I enjoy the off-season here even more than the on-season.

      Sigh, especially since there’s so much more off-season, eh? Well, you are one of the ones that make it special and make us want to come back all summer (and Fall annnnd Wiiiinter) to see what’s going on 🙂

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    253. ash: who appreciate what he does and while they might not agree with his choices, don’t think of him as a horrible person.

      Yeesh, are they attacking the man personally? Way to take the joy out of doing a job.

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    254. LordDavos: An advantage of merging Benjen with Coldhands is he can get through the Wall the way Sam did so presumably he can take Bran and Meera to Winterfell?

      Can he though? We don’t know that he can. I assume that his being in a condition similar to Coldhands that he can’t either. He was (saved)(kept alive but partially dead) in a manner similar to how the Walkers were created, with dragonglass and magic. I would say the spells woven into the Wall could restrict his passage in the same way it does the WWs.

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    255. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      But none of the other Starks are a possibility now. Bran might be coming south but we know he’s less human now; he’s something more. He’s not going to be warden of Winterfell and have kids. I don’t know if Rickon lives past the BotB but I don’t think the show has given any focus on Rickon because I don’t think he’s a focus in this show any longer.

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    256. Dee: That’s ridiculous.

      It is and it is not. What it really reflects is one subset of fans for books who are in love with the narrative and/or particular plot elements more than anything else. The movies they want are documentaries rather than stories. TV shows themselves get these same sorts of fans: for example, there are Doctor Who fans and Star Trek fans who’s first and foremost concern with new episodes, films, etc., is that they maintain continuity with the older ones. (That is particularly nuts for Doctor Who, where there is time travel and thus infinite possible histories!)

      Here is another way to look at it. If you went to a Tolkien site 15 years ago and looked at the poll rankings for the films, then two things would jump out. One: a much higher proportion of Tolkien fans gave the films very low rankings than places like Box Office Mojo showed. (And BOM audience rankings did an incredibly good job of predicting future success in series, too.) Two, the majority of Tolkien fans rated the films well. So, the characterization is closer to being false than to true, but it is not entirely false.

      ash: Im also interested in the difference between story and plot – I think you’ve explained it before and perhaps this is not the right thread to do so. Is there a good link to a book/website/whatever that explains more? Thx

      The best contrast I remember was from my high school literature teacher a few (*cough*) years ago. (Hey, decades are years….) Characters in a story are aware of at least some the plot. For example, Jon, Daeny, etc., all know things that are happening, and the characters themselves inform other characters about parts of the plot. Characters are not aware of the story. That’s an abstraction created by the parallels in how the main characters evolve. This is what makes it art: after all, history has plot and lots and lots of it; however, history tells no story because it does not add up to anything more than the sum of it’s parts.

      The one comparison that I well remember her making is that “story” is equivalent to melody: all of the notes by themselves are just sound, but put together in a particular way, the create something more than just the sounds. And when you read reviews criticizing a film or a book for being all plot and no story, what they basically are saying is “there was no point to it.”

      As for readings, I do remember Tolkien’s letters providing a pretty lucid contrast of the two concepts. When people asked why there were no real protagonists in Lord of the Rings, he explained that he felt that stories should be told with plots rather than with characters (think of stories predating, say, Jane Austen). He elsewhere notes that he considered Lord of the Rings to be a story about Death and Immortality. Now, obviously characters were aware the important plot elements: needing to toss Rings into Fires, needing to rally troops against Sauron, needing to avoid Nazgul, and needing to buy time for Frodo to complete his task. However, nobody was thinking or talking about death or immortality: that is a “melody” that arises from people working to bring about things that should last forever (monarchy! forests! pipe weed! 😀 ), including removing the last remnants of the Immortals from the mortal worlds.

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    257. ash:
      Wimsey,
      I am not sure I totally agree with you about the rules for plots being the same across genres, and if those rules must always be followed to make a good story.

      In fantasy and sci-fi, many occurrences can be explained simply by saying, it’s magic. In other genres, you wouldn’t be able to explain away anything truly unbelievable like that. Everything outside the magical should follow the same rules, though. So I both agree and disagree with Wimsey here.

      I also agree and disagree with him on Chekhov’s gun. Chekhov said, and this is the part I agree with, that if a gun is hung it must go off. Wimsey also sometimes says the inverse of this statement, as well, even though Chekhov never did to my knowledge: if a gun is not hung, it cannot go off. Here is where I disagree. We get surprises all the time. We like being surprised. Not everything must be foreshadowed.

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    258. Lea

      Yes it’s like Sansa gets one goal (better claim to the north than Jon) and then Jon gets two goals (better claim to the country). 🙂

      Clob

      I would think he could get through as a serving member of the NW but we shall see.

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    259. Markus Stark,

      My hypothesis after the finale of last season is that the faces can be taken from the wall, as Arya did, but the Faceless Men can use any or all of the faces as a glamour if they remain on the wall. I haven’t seen anything yet that contradicted this idea.

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    260. Thronetender,

      Yes, much more of an off-season, but the folks who run this site do such a great job of keeping us engaged, guessing, and excited!
      And…wow…what an incredibly kind thing to say (and far too generous)! Thank you!!!

      It’s definitely a consolation knowing there are people like you and others to play with and laugh with during the long wait of the off-season, as we all dream of spring. 🙂

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    261. Wimsey,

      I understand people invested in the originals – but there is no need to overreact and behave like idiots when the adaptation is different especially when the original writer has said the two stories are seperate and must be kept that way. Especially when attacking REAL people in defence of fictional characters

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    262. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I think it’s clear that the male stark that comes out of this in the lead will be Jon. Rickon hasn’t been developed at all as a character to suddenly lead the North. Plus being Ramsay’s prisoner makes his mortality a real question.

      Bran is no longer human.

      And as mentioned, LF in theory will be the warden in the north…. Maybe? But I think if Jon and co win, the North will declare Jon the King in the North. Sansa will be by her side but I really doubt they declare her Queen

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    263. come Sunday it’ll be alright…

      (in my best Jimmy Buffet voice)

      This season is setting up for season finally to be EPIC!!

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    264. ash:
      Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      Thanks for the info.I hope he knows that there are people who appreciate what he does and while they might not agree with his choices, don’t think of him as a horrible person.

      Of course, I can’t speak for him, but I’m sure he does. Seeing that sort of thing, though, it’s no wonder D&D stay off twitter.

      Nadia,

      I agree, Bran isn’t, necessarily, but Rickon certainly is, imo, and will remain so as long as he remains alive (although being in Ramsay’s hands, who knows how long he’ll remain alive). The truth of the matter is, whoever is put in charge of Winterfell and North, it won’t be long before the WW’s come, and for all we know, there won’t be much of the North left to rule by the time the Battle for the Dawn is over.

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    265. Not too spoilery, but my Charter DVR description is a bit different and seems longer than normal for Broken Man:

      Jaime encounters a hero; the High Sparrow fixates on another prey; Arya hatches a new plan; Yara and Theon plot their next move; Olenna and Cersei discuss their families’ futures.

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    266. keltia:
      I put this comment in the earlier thread about Episode 7, but as I was commenter #2,478 or so, I’ve posted it here as I’d like to see WotW thoughts about this.My post has to do with last year’s photos of Maisie’s filming

      Hiya. Just my opinion, but I think that

      the blood is Arya’s. Remember the clip in the Season 6 trailer of someone presumably going down stairs and trailing a bloody hand on the stone wall? They were wearing a loose gray shirt/tunic. Arya wounded but leading the Waif to the dark, where she has an advantage? Hmmm.

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    267. Wimsey,

      T

      he one comparison that I well remember her making is that “story” is equivalent to melody: all of the notes by themselves are just sound, but put together in a particular way, the create something more than just the sounds. And when you read reviews criticizing a film or a book for being all plot and no story, what they basically are saying is “there was no point to it.”

      Thanks for that, makes much more sense now.

      Ginevra,

      Wimsey also sometimes says the inverse of this statement, as well, even though Chekhov never did to my knowledge: if a gun is not hung, it cannot go off. Here is where I disagree. We get surprises all the time. We like being surprised. Not everything must be foreshadowed.

      Yes thats what I mean. Tho usually the surprises, or twists, can be recognized as guns on rereading (I remember reading Wolf Hall, and realizing that two characters were having an affair that I completely missed; till I read it again and oh yeah, of course duh) But yeah, I don’t think those clues need to be there to make the surprise work (I see the term Easter Egg in books; are those the clues you are supposed to find to figure out the twists?)

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    268. ash:
      I see the term Easter Egg in books; are those the clues you are supposed to find to figure out the twists?

      We need a much hipper youngster to be the authority, but I always thought Easter Eggs were little things that normal folks wouldn’t notice but that book fans or obsessive fans would just devour: like “I can feel the winds of winter licking across my face,” or Benjen as Coldhands, or the flashbacks with the Mad King, or the bed of blood. I’m not sure an Easter Egg is so much a clue as it is a present, or at least that’s how I see it. You’re a good fan, so we put this little gift in here just for you.

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    269. ash,

      I traveled a lot as a young adult.. but raising children made that hard to do.. now Im raising a grand child.. so unfortunately I have to wait a bit longer.. she’s only 6. But thanks for the comment!! 😉

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    270. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

      I still think the show is going to eventually tie in the book, where Jon is going to be declared the King in the North. There are so many allusions to it in the book. The north is going to rally behind Jon – if not before the battle them after. I think we’re all assuming that one way or the other Jon and Co win. I think King Crow becomes king in the north – it can’t be Sansa because there’s no way they can veer so dramatically off the book plot, and there’s zero chance Sansa is declared queen of anything in WOW. Whether or not Rickon makes it out alive, retaking the North + threat of WW will make people unite behind Jon.

      At least I’m hoping this is what Kit means by a huge episode for Jon – after BotB the North falls behind him, rallied behind him, declares him their King (sets up a showdown with Dany when she first lands – she needs a foil initially and I don’t think the Lannisters are strong enough) and somehow n episode 10 he also discovers R+J

      /end fan fiction

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    271. Ice Spider,

      The process is described in the books

      and putting on a face involved cutting Arya’s face and letting the blood flow over her face and then the face becomes attached – this is from Arya’s POV so she doesnt’ see what happening – but Arya retains memories of the person whose face is being used and how they died

      but I dont’ recall whether it mentioned how the face was removed.

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    272. Ice Spider,

      So how did they acquire Cat’s face?

      in the books, she was thrown in the river as a affront to the Tully burial rites

      Was there a FM at RR and he got the face and took it from the body there? And then performed whatever magic is necessary to preserve the face until it makes it to Braavos? Seems a little iffy.

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    273. Ginevra: In fantasy and sci-fi, many occurrences can be explained simply by saying, it’s magic.In other genres, you wouldn’t be able to explain away anything truly unbelievable like that.Everything outside the magical should follow the same rules, though.So I both agree and disagree with Wimsey here.

      I also agree and disagree with him on Chekhov’s gun.Chekhov said, and this is the part I agree with, that if a gun is hung it must go off.Wimsey also sometimes says the inverse of this statement, as well, even though Chekhov never did to my knowledge:if a gun is not hung, it cannot go off.Here is where I disagree.We get surprises all the time.We like being surprised.Not everything must be foreshadowed.

      Isn’t magic one of the main elements that separates fantasy from science fiction?

      Also: this chekhov’s gun metaphor is getting old. GRRM is a trope killer. He breaks and bends the rules so he can hang a gun and leave it there as he likes. And it would still be great story telling. I have no idea what you’re talking about because I’ve been to busy to participate in the forums lately but I just wanted to express how tired I am of reading about this metaphor. I’m not saying you can’t continue to talk about it, just expressing how tired it seems to me at this point. Surely there is some other narrative theory you could discuss.

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    274. Dee,

      Originally Valyria.

      Aegon’s father and children and dragons were on Dragonstone and not in Valyria when the Doom occurred, that’s why they escaped

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