Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 5 “The Door” Written Recap Round-Up

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Hold the Door! White Walker origins, Tormienne glances, and the biggest loss of life on Game of Thrones made for the most intense episode of Season 6 yet.

I feel the winds of winter as they lick across the land.

Here at The Wall, Sue (Sullied) praises Emilia Clarke for her moving scene with Iain Glen. She also discusses Euron and the Kingsmoot, Sansa’s steel complexion, and Bran’s revealing visions with of course, Hodor. While Oz is off enjoying the beaches of Dorne; welcome Clare to the Unsullied recap! You may remember her last recap of Season 5’s “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” and we can see she has a gift for recapping the most tragic of episodes in her review of “The Door.”

Since this episode contained moments from the book series and the past, some authors are noted as Sullied or Unsullied. Be sure to still exercise caution when reading some reviews for book spoilers.

Myles McNutt, A.V. Club (Sullied) – McNutt discusses the big final moment that was a heart-wrenching shock to Sullied and Unsullied alike.

Alyssa Rosenberg, The Washington Post (Sullied) – Rosenberg explores the origins of Hodor and the effects of Bran’s gift.

Sean T. Collins, Rolling Stone – Through Hodor’s tragic backstory and the creation of the White Walkers, Collins examines the consequences of war.

Rob Bricken, io9 – Bored with some of the plot points of the episode, Bricken was still devastated by the final scene which he said delivered a “Red Wedding-level impact.”

James Hibberd, Entertainment Weekly – Hibberd found last week’s episode to be the happiest of the series but now must lament for those we lost this week in the saddest.

Sarah Hughes, The Guardian (Sullied) – Finding the episode perfectly paced, Hughes revels in Sansa taking charge, the Kingsmoot, and The Door.

Neil Miller, Film School Reject (Sullied) – Miller conveys the elements Lost director Jack Bender brought to the episode and the answers they provided.

David Crow, Den of Geek – Crow applauds Game of Thrones for its second week of “breathtaking showcases.”

Laura Hudson, Wired – Hudson discusses the origin stories in “The Door” and the impacts they have on Westeros.

Alan Sepinwall, Hitfix – Sepinwall reviews the genius of intertwining humor with Hodor’s mono-vocabulary throughout the series that only added to the final impact of “Hodor.”

Brandon Norwalk, A.V. Club (Unsullied) – Norwalk notes the “Valar Dohaeris” theme this episode through Arya, Theon, Jorah, and last but most certainly not least, Hodor.

Jen Chaney, Vulture – Chaney declares this week’s episode the “third consecutive top-notch, propulsive episode in this very good season.”

David Malitz, The Washington Post (Unsullied) – Welcome back David Malitz to this round of reviews! He jumps right in with Hodor’s sacrifice and why he had to go so soon.

Sonia Saraiya, Salon – Saraiya relishes in the aesthetic Jack Bender brought to “The Door” and the numerous stunning moments he directed.

Laura Stone, Hey, Don’t Judge Me (Unsullied) – Stone cheers for Sansa standing up to Littlefinger (with Brienne the Badass as backup), Arya’s journey to becoming No One, and the devastating effect of Bran’s great power.

David Rosenblatt, SquintyOverAnalyzesThings – Commenting on the underdogs on the upswing, Rosenblatt brings a unique perspective to “The Door” through Sansa, Arya, Varys, Jorah, Yara, Bran, and of course, Hodor.

Check back later this week for Bex’s video recap round-up with the finest Game of Thrones video reviews of the week!

Another week of satisfied critics as Season 6 of Game of Thrones is shaping up to be truly incredible! What are your thoughts? Let us know below!

163 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. I really wish Charlie Jane Anders hadn’t left i09. That Bricken article was based on his presupposition that the Hodor storyline was a D&D creation. So, in addition to him disliking the rest of the episode, he also solely credits D&D for coming up with “Hold the door.” I would be more forgiving if the Inside the Episode wasn’t widely available more than 12 hours before he published his review.

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    2. Laura:
      I really wish Charlie Jane Anders hadn’t left i09. That Bricken article was based on his presupposition that the Hodor storyline was a D&D creation. So, in addition to him disliking the rest of the episode, he also solely credits D&D for coming up with “Hold the door.” I would be more forgiving if the Inside the Episode wasn’t widely available more than 12 hours before he published his review.

      Although to be fair (and I’m not sure why he didn’t address this in the article, but…), Bricken posted a reply with screen shots of his Twitter feed acknowledging that he messed up on this one. Ostensibly because he doesn’t find Inside the Episode to be newsworthy, but of course since this one certainly is integral to disproving his theory that the Hodor incident wasn’t directly from GRRM…..

      (And of course, he’s now on record as stating he’ll definitely watch it in future. Which of course he should have been doing the whole time, but I digress. I don’t think anyone can rightfully say the Inside vignettes – which are also readily available on YouTube for all and sundry to watch – aren’t vitally important to understanding the motivations for the story.)

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    3. Yesterday I said that the Hold-the-Door scene was the best thing in the show in a long time, and likely canon (and definitely good acting and directing regardless). I am happy to see that I was correct, as confirmed by the Inside the Episode video.

      Hat’s off to you, GRRM. That was better than anything I or anyone else around here imagined. I saw hundreds of Hold-the-Door posts, and even with the hints and prompting, not one of them came close to something that deep, that emotional, and that mind-blowing.

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    4. I’d like to peruse this but I’m still curled in the fetal position. What about everybody else?

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    5. Best episode since The Children in Season 4, what a perfectly paced, intertwining, layered, emotionally gripping piece of entertainment. I surely miss the more earthy, grounded and realistic feel of the first four seasons (can’t help myself there), but if the quality of the fantasy-elements continues to stay on this level, it’s going to knock me right out of my previously sceptical socks.

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    6. Those Inside the Episode vignettes are available immediately. They actually come on automatically right after the episode airs when you’re streaming. Of course, people are still saying the same thing about Shireen, even when right after that, the directors talked about hearing how it would happen from the author. There are apparently going to be a whole bunch of really pissed off fans when The Winds of Winter finally gets published and they find out all these cheap gags the show threw in for “shock value” happen much the same in the book.

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    7. Greatjon of Slumber,

      Yeah that was a rough one all right….I still don’t understand the hodor time travel thing….so Bran warged into Hodor in the present and past? So Bran can go back in time and warg into people there?

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    8. Chuck:
      Greatjon of Slumber,

      Yeah that was a rough one all right….I still don’t understand the hodor time travel thing….so Bran warged into Hodor in the present and past? So Bran can go back in time and warg into people there?

      It’s messy. But some thing tells me this one is on George, not Dave and Dan. He seems to have gotten out of control with the magic usage and craziness in the last books (the whole glamouring thing).

      Another thing is, why didn’t Ned or anyone else ever tell Bran or the children that Hodor used to be normal until he had a seizure one day?

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    9. And yet, it worked to tragic effect. When the White Walkers were first glimpsed in merely a vision by Bran, it could be assumed this was yet another harbinger of doom with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse imagery used more effectively in one shot here than in the entirety of X-Men: Apocalypse; and their Wight Ice Zombies looking like the extras from The Walking Dead finally relieved to be on a good show.

      And this is why I love David Crow’s reviews … this and the fact he will call the show out for

      the thought that the Lord Protector of the Vale could smuggle his way into Mole’s Town without either the Night’s Watch or any major Northern family knowing about it is almost as asinine as the idea that the Vale’s forces would be camped at Moat Cailin during any of this.</em And he explains why … (although in D&D's defense, they could have sailed there (to the north of Moat Cailin) as opposed to have marched there, which would make more sense.

      Point is that this is the kind of glossy and thinly-explained plot development that George R.R. Martin would abhor, yet on Game of Thrones, it at least works with the smooth efficiency of Valyrian steel since it allowed Sansa to finally say what so many needed her to say:

      And that is exactly why I don’t mind it …

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    10. Laura,

      Bricken’s been a bit of a gushing fan boy until yesterday’s more muted response. Ironic since the general consensus is that it wa the best ep so far.

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    11. Adam,

      So are we getting any outcries from Linda and Elio that D&D are spoiling the books like they did after the Shireen’s reveal? Or has the bitching stopped?

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    12. Adam:
      Those Inside the Episode vignettes are available immediately. They actually come on automatically right after the episode airs when you’re streaming. Of course, people are still saying the same thing about Shireen, even when right after that, the directors talked about hearing how it would happen from the author. There are apparently going to be a whole bunch of really pissed off fans when The Winds of Winter finally gets published and they find out all these cheap gags the show threw in for “shock value” happen much the same in the book.

      I did not watch the Inside the Episode video until now. I usually wait until the next day so things can sink in. I like to form my own opinions.

      Note that D&D never said Stannis sacrificed Shireen. It is hard to see how he could in the books.

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    13. Best episode since The Children in season 4, what a perfectly paced, intertwining, layered piece of entertainment. I surely miss the more earthy, grounded and realistic feel of the first four seasons (can´t help myself there), but if the quality of the fantasy-elements continues to stay on this high level, it´s going to knock me right out of my previously skeptical socks.

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    14. Darkrobin:
      And yet, it worked to tragic effect. When the White Walkers were first glimpsed in merely a vision by Bran, it could be assumed this was yet another harbinger of doom with the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse imagery used more effectively in one shot here than in the entirety of X-Men: Apocalypse; and their Wight Ice Zombies looking like the extras from The Walking Dead finally relieved to be on a good show.

      And this is why I love David Crow’s reviews … this and the fact he will call the show out for

      the thought that the Lord Protector of the Vale could smuggle his way into Mole’s Town without either the Night’s Watch or any major Northern family knowing about it is almost as asinine as the idea that the Vale’s forces would be camped at Moat Cailin during any of this.</emAnd he explains why … (although in D&D’s defense, they could have sailed there (to the north of Moat Cailin) as opposed to have marched there, which would make more sense.


      Point is that this is the kind of glossy and thinly-explained plot development that George R.R. Martin would abhor, yet on Game of Thrones, it at least works with the smooth efficiency of Valyrian steel since it allowed Sansa to finally say what so many needed her to say:

      And that is exactly why I don’t mind it …

      Knowing LF, he could have been bsing about the knights of the vale being in MC. And hes LF for R’hollars sake! Of course he could sneak into Moles Town unnoticed.

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    15. mau,

      Dumb question but is he dead for sure? I haven’t rewatched the episode but did the wights tear his body apart or did the scene just cut away?

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    16. mau:
      Chad Brick,

      And they never said that Hodor will die in this way in the books.

      Can you provide me with a summary of a plausible book storyline where Stannis sacrifices Shireen? I’ve never seen one.

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    17. Chad Brick,

      They can’t because it’s supremely unlikely. The battle of ice will open the sixth book. If Stannis is defeated, he won’t be sacrificing Shireen. If Stannis wins, he won’t be sacrificing Shireen. She is all the way back at the Wall. The only way I could see Stannis doing it is if he lives for much longer in the books, and ends up sacrificing her at a much later time, perhaps in a more dire circumstance, like when the White Walkers invade. But personally, I think Shireen will be burned to bring back Jon. “Waking dragons from stone”.

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    18. Chad Brick,

      That is not the point. The point is if you are claiming that this scene will be exactly like this in the books, based on their comments, there is no reason to think that Shireen’s death won’t be exactly the same as it was in the show.

      But the truth is, this scene is no more canon than Shireen’s scene.

      So there is absolutely no reason to praise GRRM for this if you didn’t praise him for Shireen’s death.

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    19. Markus Stark:
      Chad Brick,

      They can’t because it’s supremely unlikely. The battle of ice will open the sixth book. If Stannis is defeated, he won’t be sacrificing Shireen.

      Why not? If Stannis is defeated and retreats back to the Wall, he may burn Shireen out of desperation. Personally, I don’t think this will happen and agree with your theory that Shireen will be sacrificed to bring back Jon, but it’s certainly possible.

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    20. Markus Stark: But personally, I think Shireen will be burned to bring back Jon. “Waking dragons from stone”.

      I think it more probable that Selyse will burn Shireen believing that it will undo the word of Stannis’ defeat. Book!Selyse is about 51 cards short of a full deck, after all.

      I doubt that it will have any effect on Mel bringing Jon back in the book. Mel is very learned in the powers of R’hllor, and the manner in which R’hllor revives people is about the only thing it does without demanding a sacrifice. Why? Who knows: perhaps we will learn when we get the “why” of R’hllor.

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    21. a little heads-up. Emilia is scheduled to be on the Late Show with Colbert tonight and on with Seth Meyers tomorrow night. Maybe we’ll get lucky and Seth will do a skit with her similar to those he’s done with Kit and Clarice.

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    22. Jack Bauer 24:
      What do you think the secret the High Sparrow told Tommen is? Tommen hasn’t told Cersei yet. Just read this and it seems plausible…
      https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/4jjqi9/everything_my_theory_about_what_the_high_sparrow/

      That’s essentially been my thinking over the last week. I’ve written a few times that I’m not buying the walk of atonement thing, but the ‘larger card’ that Cersei now knows who killed Joffrey and is setting pieces.

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    23. To Hodor or not to Hodor …*sigh*…it actually makes sense now…*cries into a pillow softly*

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    24. Chuck: I still don’t understand the hodor time travel thing….so Bran warged into Hodor in the present and past? So Bran can go back in time and warg into people there?

      I think that the explanation is simpler. When Bran or BR view the past, they cast some presence on it. People can sort of hear them, if only as whispers. Nobody was warging Hodor: he was hearing Meera say “Hold the Door” at the tree, but through Bran he was also hearing in the courtyard decades earlier. As a result, he was hearing it every moment in time in between.

      It is small wonder that he was half mad.

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    25. Chuck:
      Greatjon of Slumber,

      Yeah that was a rough one all right….I still don’t understand the hodor time travel thing….so Bran warged into Hodor in the present and past? So Bran can go back in time and warg into people there?

      Perhaps,because Bran was in the past, the attempt to Warg into future Hodor went through past Hodor all the way to future Hodor. One continuous thru-line, which was why Wyllis could never break out of it.

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    26. Shipp: the attempt to Warg into future Hodor went through past Hodor all the way to future Hodor.

      But, nobody was trying to warg Present!Hodor. Meera is the one who puts the words in his head forever: but there is no indication that she has any warg talents, and she certainly is completely unskilled if she does. Bran is unaware that Hodor is there: he’s unaware of anything happening around him. Instead, Bran is merely creating the link that is letting the magic hit Past!Hodor and Present!Hodor simultaneously.

      One thing to keep in mind is that both book and show heavily hint that the magic of warging and the magic of tree-godding are the same: it is just that the tree-godding magic is much more “advanced” and powerful. In both cases, people with the talent can see through the eyes of others. People with the talent and enough skill can actually do so at will, and even control/influence other animals. And those rare few with the strength to link with the weirwood trees can: 1) do this for extended periods of time without losing themselves in another being; and, 2) travel through the memory of trees to see the past and possibly even the future (because trees are Time Lord technology, you know).

      To that end, Hodor was getting “warged” not by any one individual, but by the confluence of events: the “warging” magic hitting Past!Hodor and Present!Hodor (and all InBetween!Hodors) was letting Meera’s command override Hodor’s mind.

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    27. At the risk of sounding argumentative, I’ll just posit that the Time Travel trope never works, really. I’m surprised GRRM went there. There is no way around the causal loop paradox. But for entertainment, it works. If you recall the Terminator – machines send back killer to murder mother of resistance leader. Same leader finds out and sends his own protector back to save mother and his unborn self. Same protector sleeps with mother and she births the resistance leader. Child is the father of the man, etc.

      Doesn’t matter if it’s a closed loop. That only leads to repot ion ad infinitum, and unless you allow for alternate realities outside your timeline (which defeats the purpose in this case), you can’t have an effect precede its cause. Such is the case of Hodor, whose affliction existed before Bran was even born, and yet was caused by Bran himself years later.

      Stephen Hawking himself couldn’t unravel that mystery. But I still loved Terminator, and, except for the Direwolf abuse, and the depressing nature of the series overall, love GOT too.

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    28. Markus Stark,

      I agree that in the books someone will be burned to bring back Jon … Selyse or Shireen are the two major royals available … I guess if Mel believes that Val is royal she could be a third … if they’ve known that since the beginning, then it would make sense for a non-hero (stannis) to be involved, not a hero … what guilt would you have to find out that a little girl was burnt to bring you back from the dead … but I’m just speculating …. On the other hand, in ADWD Jon has feeling for Val so maybe because of that connection she is sacrificed (Mel has no idea that Thoros has raised Beric from the dead and still proclaims that only death can pay for life per the books)

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    29. mau,

      So you are saying that Selyse, Shireen and Mel travel the few weeks from CB to outside WF (presumably after the Battle of Ice and before the Battle of WF, assuming two such battles occur) in winter and by themselves with the snow that has stymied Stannis’ march on WF and then Stannis orders the burning ?

      Or are you saying that there is no more (or less) support for the scene being exactly the same in both the show and books as there is for the Shireen scene to be exactly the same in both?

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    30. Clob: That’s essentially been my thinking over the last week.I’ve written a few times that I’m not buying the walk of atonement thing, but the ‘larger card’ that Cersei now knows who killed Joffrey and is setting pieces.

      Not only do I agree with you, I think the Tyrells are going the way of the Martells and the Baratheons this season. I think the whole house is going to be wiped out and Tommen will be collateral damage.

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    31. Still drying my tears after watching it for the first time… Trying to compose myself, getting ready to watch it for the second time… Nope, can’t do it just yet. Hodor, and I’m crying again. Wah, wah, wah.

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    32. Darkrobin,

      Mel and selyse will burn Shireen at the wall
      It won’t be Stannis doing (in the books)

      I haven’t read the books but have many discussions regarding this with people who have
      Hahaha
      Just my two cents

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    33. Interested to see the rating tomorrow since the episode leaked. I wonder if it will dip below 7 million for the first time this season.

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    34. Bran went in time to experience birth of first Walker…….. How they are defeated first time around?……… Someone named ‘Brandon Stark’ raised the wall… With the help of children of forest….. And Bran could influence past……. See the connection…… John gonna defeat walkers in present and Bran in past……… North remembers…

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    35. mau:
      Chad Brick,

      That is not the point. The point is if you are claiming that this scene will be exactly like this in the books, based on their comments, there is no reason to think that Shireen’s death won’t be exactly the same as it was in the show.

      But the truth is, this scene is no more canon than Shireen’s scene.

      So there is absolutely no reason to praise GRRM for this if you didn’t praise him for Shireen’s death.

      “Exactly” is too strong a word. Nothing in the show is “exactly” adapted, nor should it be. However, there is no reason to believe that the Hold-the-Door scene needed any significant changes from unreleased page to the screen. Everything important that happened Sunday night is consistent with the books and consistent with GRRM’s style. Also, the set up is very deep and the consequences too important to the story (Bran can manipulate the past) for it to be something that D&D just tacked on.

      The Stannis arc, in contrast, had already deviated heavily from the books when it surpassed them. I loathed the TV arc for reasons we have endlessly discussed, but the profound differences in characterization, ethics, and plotting found in the books (both past and likely future) afford ample opportunity for the latter to deserve a different review than the former. However, at this point, it is impossible to fully judge. So far, the book arc has been great, better than anything in AFFC/ADWD other than Theon’s. I expect that trend to continue.

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    36. Chuck:
      Greatjon of Slumber,

      Yeah that was a rough one all right….I still don’t understand the hodor time travel thing….so Bran warged into Hodor in the present and past? So Bran can go back in time and warg into people there?

      Yeah i reckon he can skinchange/”reach out” to birds and animals but also Giants which includes Hodor it seems (Giants Blood)

      Going by the

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    37. Young Dragon: Why not? If Stannis is defeated and retreats back to the Wall, he may burn Shireen out of desperation. Personally, I don’t think this will happen and agree with your theory that Shireen will be sacrificed to bring back Jon, but it’s certainly possible.

      Why would he do that? “Out of desperation” isn’t a sufficient explanation. After a total defeat, what could he hope to gain by murdering his daughter? Better to send her away somewhere safe and take the black.

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    38. Darkrobin,

      It was not explained anywhere! It is purely the simplest inference. Bran was not warging Hodor: he was not aware what was happening. BR was not warging Hodor: he was dead. Meera was not warging Hodor: she never has shown any ability to do that. So, that rules out warging.

      However, we also know that information passes, if only vaguely, from the Weirnet to the world it is viewing. Ned almost heard Bran at the Tower. Bran was vaguely hearing Meera shout “Hold the Door.” And obviously Wyllas/Hodor was hearing it, too.

      At that point, the explanation gets pretty Doctor Whoish. Timey Wimey, Wibbly Wobbly “stuff.” 😀

      Dee: Mel and selyse will burn Shireen at the wall

      I doubt that Mel will participate. My bet is that Selyse will do it while Mel is busy reviving Jon and dealing with the immediate aftermath.

      Jack Bauer 24: I wonder if it will dip below 7 million for the first time this season.

      I suspect that the majority of people who watched the leak do not watch the show any way that HBO tallies. I also would be very surprised if it numbers beyond the low 100K’s: only the hardcore fans would have been aware of the leak that close to show time, after all. Most of the subscribing viewers have stuff to do on Sunday afternoons, after all!

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    39. LatrineDiggerBrian,

      The interview of the show runners said it was Martin. As far as why Ned didn’t tell the kids about Hodor? Well, maybe Ned didn’t remember, or maybe Neds kids were just being kids and probably didnt ask, honestly. Kids don’t generally ask those kind of questions, by the time Ned died, they were all too young enough to care about the “handicapped” guy saying Hodor, it was normal to them at that point. I remember being in high school, I never questioned how the handicapped kids ended up like they did, kinda makes it all more realistic than it is. Maybe thats just me, Im not very judgmental.

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    40. Laura: Not only do I agree with you, I think the Tyrells are going the way of the Martells and the Baratheons this season. I think the whole house is going to be wiped out and Tommen will be collateral damage.

      That’s my guess as well. All Tyrells are wiped out at the end of this season.
      It looks like before the WWs cross the Wall to destroy the humans, the humans would have more or less destroyed themselves.

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    41. Jack Bauer 24:
      Interested to see the rating tomorrow since the episode leaked. I wonder if it will dip below 7 million for the first time this season.

      Probably. Also up against the Billboard Music awards and NBA playoffs.

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    42. None of the reviewers mentioned what I thought was the most ambiguous thing to parse

      1) in Jon’s “small council” meeting, he’s starting at Sansa the majority of the time, even when Davos is talking. Is he wary of her? You can tell directorally the cuts are all to him watching her. I couldn’t read his expression but he seems cautious of her

      2) is Sansa being Margaery in the coat scene, trying to charm him back over? Because their scenes last episode seemed so sincere and she seems really insincere here

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    43. Nadia,

      Yes to first point. The camera was deliberately focused on Jon’s expression when Sansa was talking. I wish we knew what he was thinking at that point, it would answer some questions where they r going with this.
      I don’t think Sansa was manipulating him by giving that coat. She wants him to look like a real Stark, that’s all. The only thing is she is keeping her cards very close to her chest, which is unfair to Jon maybe, but understandable why she would do it.

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    44. I just need more of the whole JON was dead and came back and the link to Melisandre… It was the focus of episode 1 and 2 and then bam it’s like forgotten….

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    45. ghost of winterfell,

      Why does everyone one just think these ww r the problem?to me it looks as though they want there stark kin on there side, the north remembers.true north above the wall.and why send the worst men in the kingdom to him.yes the nights watch forgot there purpose. Being watchmen for the nights king.also the horn to take down the wall is north Of the wall right where we should know its should be hidden as far south as possible. Grrm loves twisting us .in all ways .

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    46. Chad Brick,
      Jesus, let go about Stannis. Despite all what you say, you have no proof that he doesn’t burn her. And it happened last season, anyway. So, you’re angry that your favourite character died. We know that already.

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    47. Dee,

      I agree, they’ve been glossing over lots of things this season such as Jon’s “rebirth” and Mel thinking he’s the prince that be promised, as well as Jon and Sansa having an off-screen quick game of catch up.

      But I know I gotta cut the writers some slack, because they gotta keep things moving. Maybe we will get more on Jon and Mel in further episodes. I feel like Kinvara will be an interesting “control” study to compare and contrast what we’ve seen of Rhollar through Melli Mel (and a bit o’ Thoros).

      But yeah, more of them both please. My girl Mel only sighed on this last ep, I don’t even think she mumbled her way through her catchphrase once.

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    48. mau,

      As we clearly knew from the very beginning.

      If they like a scene, Martin wrote it exactly like that.
      If they don’t, well the writers are hacks who hate the character.

      Seriously WOW will be a huge disapointment for many….When they finally get the wake up call.

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    49. This is my first time commenting on the site.. I have been an absolute GoT fanatic only since season 3 (don’t ask why not sooner, I don’t know myself). I am wanting to start reading the books when I get some free time. I have a few questions, as the show cannot go into as much depth as the books. Now that we know who the Night’s King is and the history behind them starting, how many guards does he have? Why do they look different? Please no one shoot me down for my ignorance. Also, how many are there? I remember Jon killing one in Hardhome and now Meera too. Do more just appear? I am so confused as I see the number of guards is the same even though Jon killed one a few seasons back. I hope I won’t be shot down for this hehe

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    50. Nadia

      It is hard to know what Jon is thinking in that scene. Are they suggesting Jon and Sansa are being competitive with each other? I wonder if she didn’t tell him about Littlefinger because she doesn’t want him in LF’s orbit.

      Also wondering if Meera is a more important character than has appeared. Watching it again, her influence in the time travelling scene is more apparent. Was the use of the spear meant to mirror Jon’s sword shattering of what looked like the same WW.

      Both Bran and Arya were told they weren’t ready. Arya will be on the move.

        Quote  Reply

    51. I don’t think Meera is more important than what we are seeing. Or else it would have been silly that she had such a small role since the beginning
      I just think, like leaf said to Meera, that bran will need her.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Dee,

      Agreed.

      She a great character and I loved her this episode but I doubt she will be important to the over-arching story.

      Important to Bran? Definetly.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Mihnea

      It’s classic 🙂

      From Tormund’s point of view she would be the ultimate spearwife. He’s brave and loyal in his own way.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Dee,

      I agree. Mel got pushed to the background after the resurrection. I’m scared that Jon is turning into a supporting character in his own storyline.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Dee,

      I think so too. Jon read the pink letter in public in the books, so that is what makes them do it. The letter was more detailed there as well.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Flayed Potatoes,

      It appears to be that way unfortunately. But why? He’s the only one I can think of that’s a main character who gets sidelined for no obvious reason. I suppose precedent was set with Bran. Sitting out a whole season and now that he’s back is shaping up to be a VIP in this story. It just really feels weird with Jon because resurrecting a main character and then sweeping that under the rug… there is only 1 more season after this and so much else needs to happen to bring everything together that it just feels like we won’t be able to get much more character development for him.

      What do you think happens when Bran reaches the Wall and Jon/Sansa are not there? Meera can’t just pull him along to WF by herself. If there is a return of Benjen how do you think he helps? Stays at the wall with Bran and be first line of defense when the WW breach it?

        Quote  Reply

    57. Dee,

      It really is frustrating! And why is Melisandre so gloomy? Shake it off woman you should feel renewed by your powers! They need to give us some POV with her and Jon already it’s ridiculous. I hear many places they wanted this season to be female-centric so I guess they had to sacrifice the time spent of one or two characters that aren’t females in order to do that. Unfortunately Jon Snow seems to be one of them. Also to make room for Bran’s stuff now to be fair.

      I think perhaps it’s a pacing issue where some things should have happened last season instead for better set up. Oh and the total removal of Dorne would have helped with this a great deal (unless those women end up being essential to the end game ) Gods I hope not, don’t care for them a bit.

        Quote  Reply

    58. I have no problems with anyones story or roles so far, just with jons regarding the whole reserruction… So most of us are on the same page in that there’s a lack of
      Some focus on the fact that he was brought back.. That’s the main issue here
      I am okay with how he is tired of fighting blabla and Sansa needs to convince him
      But he came back from the dead for Gods sake!!!!!! Can we have three minutes to discuss this again? One time isn’t enough.
      I am loving Sansa and everything don’t get me wrong
      I’m just a little confused but I won’t jump the gun and assume that they aren’t going to address the whole Jon coming back again. I have faith they will. I will judge at the end of the season….. I want more Jon! Lol

        Quote  Reply

    59. ygritte,

      The only thing I can think of is that Jon is set to do something epic and the show is not trying to make it super obvious (like how they’re trying to hide the importance of ToJ, only to reveal things when needed). But at the same time, this doesn’t happen with other characters. Their main character status is not in question.

      The showrunners also have characters they like over others and have said they write extra scenes because they like a certain actor. It’s clear they like LF and Sansa/Sophie, and they attached them to Jon’s storyline, which takes away from Jon and Mel.

      Sansa and LF are also among the characters who have had no encounter with magic, whereas Jon, Davos and Mel are knee deep in it, so there’s a bit of an issue. We never got an idea of how Sansa feels about the resurrection (and it makes it seem like she doesn’t care about how it impacted Jon), and we don’t really have any insight on how Mel feels about everything and how has Jon’s resurrection affected her belief system. It’s like: “ok Jon you’re back, now get over your PTSD and go take Winterfell for Sansa.” Even last episode they referred to Jon as “brooding” for laughs, but there are serious reasons why he is this way.

      I get the feeling that they want to keep most of the magic strictly in Bran’s storyline, but Jon is a bridge between magic and real life situations imo, and taking away the magic part hurts him. It’s a shame because to me Jon has always been the most tightly written and cohesive character on the show, so I hope the show is going somewhere with him and we will see him shine while meeting with the northerners.

      I think Benjen can help them get to the Wall if he appears, and the NW can just give them horses and send them to Winterfell with some of their men. Edd is a nice guy, and he would help.

      I actually have a new crackpot theory about Benjen

      Maybe he was somehow marked by the NK as well and can’t go through the wall, which is why we have not seen him. He could be gathering WW intel as a result

        Quote  Reply

    60. Dee:
      I don’t think Meera is more important than what we are seeing. Or else it would have been silly that she had such a small role since the beginning
      I just think, like leaf said to Meera, that bran will need her.

      She’s Game of Thrones’ Ronnie Gardoki 😉 No, but seriously, I wish someone would tell Ellie Kendrick fans on tumblr, she’s only a secondary character in the grand scheme o’ things. They keep bitching and whining about her not having anything to do or her being a glorified babysitter or some garbage like that.

      Dany, Jon, Tyrion & Arya are the main characters. It is known.

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    61. LordDavos:
      Even Davos went from running everything to only having a few sentences in the last two episodes.

      Davos has always been a supporting character though, (my favorite supporting character probably) but to turn one of the biggest characters of the show into a supporting character is something different. I just hope things get better in the future episodes.

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    62. Flayed Potatoes,

      I really like your theory, even though it´s unlikely, of course, but I do think it´s rather safe to assume that the mark will not be a permanent thing. If the NK could from now on find Bran anywhere he wants, I do not see a way why he shouldn´t catch up to him. They have relentless wights and untiring horses whereas Bran can´t walk and Meera has to carry him on that huge, heavy sledge. If they can just escape and the mark is still left as a homing-device, I do not think Bran´s survival could ever be realistic, so maybe it passes like a severe frostbite or they have to cut off his arm (please not) or..

      …they go the route that Bran can now be confronted and chased by the NK once he enters visions, but I do not think that would be the case since from then on, backstory couldn´t be so lengthy and elaborately provided like in the TJ-scene plus the make-up and effects of the Others would surely hurt the budget.

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    63. Dee:
      Kit Hairyton,

      Bahahaha
      That’s so funny
      They need to chillax lol

      And bran

      And Sansa, according to David Benioff. He even went so as far to say her and Jon were the two most important characters. No wonder Dany went mad and burnt down a temple. She must’ve got word.

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    64. Does anyone else see the similarities between the creation of the Night’s King in this episode and the legend of Nissa Nissa?

        Quote  Reply

    65. Kit Hairyton: And Sansa, according to David Benioff. He even went so as far to say her and Jon were the two most important characters. No wonder Dany went mad and burnt down a temple. She must’ve got word.

      LOL! Yeah, even though that was how he phrased it, what he probably meant was that they were both in the list of the most important characters.

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    66. Blackfish´s Ally,

      I’m curious to see if Bran’s mark is permanent. I think he will still have it if/when he gets past the Wall. I don’t think the NK will harm him in his visions. Bloodraven still allowed him to greensee even after he had the mark. I think Bran is downloading the ASOIAF and GoT Wikis right now lol. He’s completing his training.

        Quote  Reply

    67. ygritte,

      I replied to your comment with a comment above but I hadn’t included your name – this was my reply to you

      “I have no problems with anyones story or roles so far, just with jons regarding the whole reserruction… So most of us are on the same page in that there’s a lack of
      Some focus on the fact that he was brought back.. That’s the main issue here
      I am okay with how he is tired of fighting blabla and Sansa needs to convince him
      But he came back from the dead for Gods sake!!!!!! Can we have three minutes to discuss this again? One time isn’t enough.
      I am loving Sansa and everything don’t get me wrong
      I’m just a little confused but I won’t jump the gun and assume that they aren’t going to address the whole Jon coming back again. I have faith they will. I will judge at the end of the season….. I want more Jon! Lol”

        Quote  Reply

    68. Flayed Potatoes,

      If the Wall comes down because of Bran crossing with the mark still on him, I assume the number of fuckBran hashtags will increase exponentially 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    69. Dolorous Yaga (the 999th Lady Commander):
      Chad Brick,
      Jesus, let go about Stannis. Despite all what you say, you have no proof that he doesn’t burn her. And it happened last season, anyway. So, you’re angry that your favourite character died. We know that already.

      It was mau who started that discussion, in his lame attempt to deny GRRM credit for Sunday night’s beautiful scene. Don’t blame me for his book-hate blindness.

      When TWOW is released later this year or early next (remember our bet mau? January 2018!), I can already predict that mau, mihnea et al will immediately credit any good parts that reasonably approximate the show to GRRM copying D&D. You can stake your life on it.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Flayed Potatoes,

      Well, Bloodraven did only let Bran “download” (lol on that one in your comment) all that stuff because Bran was traceable anyways and they had no time left to intensify the training. Bloodraven most likely just felt that it was very safe to assume that NK would rather try to kill Bran´s actual body instead of the astral one that could be janked out of a vision most of the time before he would reach him. In concluding that the NK would set off to the cave to kill them all and not focus on the presence in the visions, it was obvious that they still had some time left to help Bran with his training and cram as many things as possible into his mind until the NK arrives.

      So I do think it only is the case that the NK would not have been able to focus on Bran´s presence in visions since he was moving towards the cave with his army and did not have the time to lock onto him, yet that does not rule out that he now may find him in the visions. They are both connected to the weirwoods and everytime Bran uses the weirwood-network to gather information, the NK may have some sort of alarming/homing-device because of the mark now. If they want to go that route in the show, I do not think that there is much hindering them from doing so.

      So I hope the mark will not be permanent since it will both hinder Bran´s training plus making flashbacks a lot more dangerous than they already were. We may also get lucky and that mark-thingy is just a one-trick pony and now useless. Time will tell, but I would say it isn´t permanent or it will turn out to be the bane of Bran´s existence. I´d rather choose the first one.

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    71. ghost of winterfell,

      There’s already a Fuck Bran reddit page. Maybe he’ll partially redeem himself when he drops the ToJ exposition on everyone lol.

      Blackfish´s Ally,

      That’s very interesting. I can see Bloodraven protecting his astral body as well, and use that presence to guide other characters. It didn’t cross my mind that the NK could access the weirwoods. It would explain why the Children lost control of him. He could be a greenseer. The NK and Bran are definitely connected now imo. He’s ice 😛

      I can see the show increasing the danger in his flashbacks. He’d have to be careful not to let the NK see what he finds. It’s all very suspenseful either way.

      Bloodraven just gave Bran his HBO Go password and he’s not binge watching GoT. Watch out, Littlefinger!

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    72. Flayed Potatoes:
      “But at the same time, this doesn’t happen with other characters.”

      Nope, and that’s what makes me think they must be toying with us, not like purposely but as part of the narrative. We know that Jon has to be one of the big players and they would not bring him back from death just to have him sit in the shadows and be a pawn forever.

      “The showrunners also have characters they like over others and have said they write extra scenes because they like a certain actor.”

      I’ve heard this before, specifically with Missandei/GW and Myranda. I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand I understand they are writing the story not us, and using their artistic vision as they see fit so it’s their perogative. On the other hand, there is already a built-in fan base due to the existence of the books so the readers would be expecting a faithful adaptation within reason, and, they need to think of when they do this sort of thing, is it taking time away from giving the viewers the necessary build up and pay-off scenes with their favorites, the characters fans find the most interesting and integral to this story.

      “We never got an idea of how Sansa feels about the resurrection (and it makes it seem like she doesn’t care about how it impacted Jon), and we don’t really have any insight on how Mel feels about everything….

      And these are some of the very scenes that I’m sure many of us were looking forward to the most. For ten long months, lol. Haven’t thought about the fact it could boil down to a reluctance of injecting too much magic here but that is very possible! I did assume that this part of Jon’s story in the books would have a significant mystical element to it that is somehow important to the end game and thus would not be a facet they’d think to downplay but that is just conjecture at this point.

      Do you think Bran will arrive at the Wall next EP?

        Quote  Reply

    73. LatrineDiggerBrian,

      As much of a great dude Ned was, I just can’t see him being the type to be involved in ‘around the water cooler’ talk about a simpleton Stableboy. Plus Bran was too young, maybe had everyone grown up a bit more & survived he may gave told him.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Dee,

      Yes, confusion is the perfect word for it 🙂

      I was (am?) liking Sansa too. That reunion, the look on her face when she embraces Jon, gave me the feels big time. Now? I have a bad feeling, as if the selfish, snobby girl she was in the first seasons still resides in her character and that the abuse she endured, instead of making her stronger in a good way, as in holding family more dear when she reunites, might have just hardened her heart and make her more ruthless. Hope I’m wrong 🙁 But you know how they like to play us dirty!

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    75. Guys I had a horrible thought today… I know people have mentioned Hodor coming back as a wight would be horrible, but what if Summer did? 🙁

      I think it would break me.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Dee,

      The show can often be very one-track in that regard. Granted, storytelling time is always at a premium, but it feels a bit like since the story this season is about fighting the Boltons, that’s the only thing people will talk about. The White Walkers didn’t come up in the first several episodes of season 5 either, to the point where I was wondering if they had dropped Stannis’ knowledge of them from the plot entirely, but then he mentioned them to Sam before leaving the Wall.

      I agree that Mel, in particular, is being curiously underserved here. They also had Davos immediately go back to skeptically mocking her for believing Jon is TPTWP even though she just brought a man back from the dead, which seem a bit uncharitable.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Sean C.,

      Everybody seems to have forgotten about all the dragon glass that can be found in Dragonstone, as was mentioned by Stannis.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Dolorous Yaga (the 999th Lady Commander),

      He isn’t the one who brought it up. Someone else mentioned Shireen. And he is allowed to talk about it if he wishes to do so, especially when we are on the topic of things that D&D confirmed were from GRRM but haven’t yet happened in the novels. Grow up instead of getting catty with someone for discussing a topic you aren’t interested in. You don’t like it ? Then just don’t participate in the discussion and there will be no problem. Attacking someone as you did is childish.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Mihnea,

      Except D&D never said it would be exactly the same, and neither did Chad. Maybe the attack on the cave will go down differently in the novels. Maybe it’s another door altogether that Hodor has to hold. All we know is that the origin of the name is the same. We don’t know the precise circumstance.
      Same with Shireen. We know she’ll burn, but we don’t know the details. It won’t be to defeat the Boltons as it was in the show, that is for certain.

      And I’m sure we can all agree that Shireen’s sacrifice needed to happen and is a brilliantly tragic turn of events. That isn’t really the point. It needs to be done at a time that makes sense for the characters, and some people didn’t feel that was the case on the show.

      I wish you would stop trying to malign people who feel differently than you, it’s really unbearable how you and others gang up on people like Chad. It’s bullying and it’s absurd. People have different takes on things. Accept it and move on.

        Quote  Reply

    80. ygritte,

      The thing is that most viewers aren’t looking forward to the adventures of GW and Myranda.

      They’ve kept magic pretty limited. No warging for Jon and Arya, no wolf dreams, they cut down on visions and didn’t explain The Prince that was Promised that well. Some of the magical elements were cut justly imo (the horns), but when someone is brought back to life they need to address it. It’s like the big pink elephant in the room.

      I don’t think they’ll make it to the Wall that soon. I think we’ll see them being chased by wights and we’ll see the rider with the fireball from the trailer. Maybe they’ll arrive late in the season to parallel how they arrived at the cave at the end of season 4 and wrap up Bran’s storyline nicely. The weather conditions are also terrible there, and for now it’s just Meera dragging him. She can’t move quickly.

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    81. Sean C.,
      “…They also had Davos immediately go back to skeptically mocking her for believing Jon is TPTWP even though she just brought a man back from the dead…”

      This! That conversation just did not make sense. Seriously, it was so disjointed from what happened with these characters just prior that I can’t find a way to even say “Oh it’ll make sense when we look back on it.” What can they possibly do to make it cohesive? It only leaves me with the thought maybe writers dropped the ball here.

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    82. Markus Stark,

      Some people are always only complaining about the show that’s all they do it gets very very very redundant and mind boggling as to why one would spend so much time complaining lol

      Just my two cents Markus

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    83. ygritte,

      Davos knows what happened to the first Azor Ahai a.k.a. Stannis, he has every right to be concerned about how she will influence Jon. That’s why he sent her away in Ep3. She brought him back, yes, but why would that make her someone with a trustworthy agenda? He turned to her in crisis, now he can go back to what was obviously nagging him for a long time. What happened really to Shireen and what is her agneda now that Jon is back?

        Quote  Reply

    84. Dee:
      Markus Stark,

      Some people are always only complaining about the show that’s all they do it gets very very very redundant and mind boggling as to why one would spend so much time complaininglol

      Just my two cents Markus

      You have it backwards. I started this whole conversation by effusively praising everyone involved in creating that scene. It was a few members of the local book-hate club that threw a hissy when I pointed out that individual most deserving of praise was GRRM himself, as this scene is clearly his creation. They simply cannot admit that GRRM could write a brilliant scene post 2005, despite it being obvious that has and will continue to do so.

      When the show screws up, I point it out, precisely because I love it. It really is that simple. I wouldn’t even waste time watching it if I didn’t. When it gets things right, I praise it, but those comments typically get lost in the crowd of similar ones by others.

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    85. Mihnea: As we clearly knew from the very beginning.

      If they like a scene, Martin wrote it exactly like that.
      If they don’t, well the writers are hacks who hate the character.

      Seriously WOW will be a huge disapointment for many….When they finally get the wake up call.

      Nah. Once WoW comes out, their reactions will be this:

      If GRRM wrote it, and they previously hated it when D&D did it, they will then love that scene and say it was absolutely brilliant.

      If they loved it when D&D did it, but it turns out that GRRM didn’t write it, they will then hate it and claim that section was “fan-fiction” and D&D are clearly hacks.

      If they’re unsure whether it was D&D material or GRRM material, they will wait until WoW comes out before making a decision about how they feel about it.

      It is known.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Chad Brick,

      Let’s be honest moments of praise are rare lol

      Anyway I give GRRM full credit for that scene/story
      And I give D&D and jack bender A+ For turning one piece of art into another amazing visual piece of art.

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    87. Josh L: Nah.Once WoW comes out, their reactions will be this:

      If GRRM wrote it, and they previously hated it when D&D did it, they will then love that scene and say it was absolutely brilliant.

      If they loved it when D&D did it, but it turns out that GRRM didn’t write it, they will then hate it and claim that section was “fan-fiction” and D&D are clearly hacks.

      If they’re unsure whether it was D&D material or GRRM material, they will wait until WoW comes out before making a decision about how they feel about it.

      It is known.

      And your evidence for this is?

      For two of the worst offenders in my opinion (Dorne and Sansa-in-Winterfell), the ink is already dry. The only one that could even possibly fit your claim is Stannis, but the odds of GRRM’s strongly different storyline making the same mistakes as the show did are virtually nil, in part because half of the ink is in fact dry and in part because there isn’t much of a logical way for the book storyline to repeat those errors even if GRRM wanted them to. If GRRM does in fact muck up that storyline with nonsense (TV-nonsense or otherwise), I will duly criticize it.

      Likewise, my opinion of the greatness of Hold-the-Door will not change regardless of what GRRM writes. Why would it?

      Your last statement is closer to the truth, but not quite right. My opinions on all scenes in the show right now are kind of like a Schroedinger’s Cat, existing in two states until the book resolves which interpretation is correct. This is because I weight source accuracy fairly substantially in any form of an adaption, but we are in a nearly unprecedented state of having the adaption released first. The Hold-the-Door scene is great regardless of what GRRM writes, but it is flat out epic for me if it is highly accurate (which I think it is). Likewise, I found the Stannis end-game sequence horrible, but it would be somewhat less horrible if (somehow) that mess actually turns out to be close to canon in terms of plotting, characterization, etc.

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    88. Wylie,

      It’s not that it should all of a sudden make her trustworthy in Davos’ eyes, it’s the fact that he went to her and asked for a miracle, then he sees with his own eyes that she has the ability to perform said miracle, but then basically wants her to ignore the meaning behind it. Did he really expect her to raise a dead man, one she’s admitted to seeing in her flames, and just go about her business as if there’s no ramifications? I doubt it. Her big purpose in life is to find this champion of her Lord. It was just puzzling that he was at all questioning, surprised or whatever, that she would transfer her attention to Jon. Or maybe I took the dialogue wrong and Davos is using psychology on Mel in effort to get her to stop all the crazy stuff which leads to burning people.

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    89. Wimsey,
      Oh ! Haha! Yes, poor old Stan wasn’t the first, clearly.
      Concerning the clue, are you refering to the creation of the first WW by the Children and that there could have been a “fire” counterpart of some sort?

        Quote  Reply

    90. ygritte,
      Again, it was a time of crisis. Act now, think about consequences later. Miraculously, it worked and now he is afraid of what those ramifications may be, that’s why he’s questioning her.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Dee:
      any ratings out? It’s tuesday

      I’ve been looking, but nothing so far. I thought the overnight rating is usually out by now?

        Quote  Reply

    92. Wylie,

      Yeah, he doesn’t want her to go back to burning people and being to full of her self.

      Reminding her how she was wrong about Stannis, should in large parts keep her more humble.
      That’s why I think we didn’t get scenes with her. She doesn’t try to push the events to go the way she thought/wanted them to go. She doesn’t try to influence Jon, like she did with Stannis, she will simply obey and follow the ”lords will”.

      That’s how I saw it..

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    93. Wow that ending I don’t even have a word for what am feeling right now ..this is the same way I felt after mountain and viper where oberyn got his head smashed .

      And finally some scene where dany and Emilia can show their emotional side .

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    94. Dee,

      That makes sense to me. D&D have said that this is one of the three big reveals GWWM made to them, the second being Hodor and the third being ??? Maybe who the valonqar is? I guess my point I made very poorly was that it was not going to be exactly the same. Shireen will be sacrificed and Stannis will die and Jon will be resurrected, it may just be different from the show. Even D&D have said that:

      So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.

      So when people say things will be exactly the same, I just question the support for the “exactly”

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    95. Dee,

      Dee, you and I are on the same page with this. All we’ve seen is Brienne’s off-handed comment about she could understand his brooding given what happened. But I am hopeful that more will be revealed in future episodes. If not, doesn’t matter. Still a very enjoyable ride.

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    96. Wimsey,

      My bet is that Selyse will do it while Mel is busy reviving Jon and dealing with the immediate aftermath.

      Hadn’t thought of this but this makes sense given where Selyse is in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Dee,

      Dee,
      I still haven’t watched it a second time like I usually do. I can’t bring myself to do it. Between Summer’s whimpers and Hodor’s “hodoring” I just can’t do it….I could cry just THINKING about it.
      Slinks away so no one will see the tears coming again.

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    98. It’s shocking to me that the show has essentially gone the route of IDGAF on Jon’s resurrection. Not only do they not have it brought up in conversation but the only way it’s referenced is Brienne joking he’s broody BECAUSE HE WAS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD. Why on earth is everyone so ho hum about it?!

      And then again, they’re sitting in the council meeting and Jon casually brings up the White Walkers in the North and Sansa and Brienne have no reaction to it. How are all these things so run of the mill in conversation?

      Meanwhile Mel, who brought him back to life from the dead, is just sitting there like scenery. What on earth?

      At some point Jon is going to have to do SOMETHING or have someone talk about it, otherwise it’s hard to see the point of him being killed except to leave Castle Black, and that’s a horrible plot device.

      By the way, Jon looks like Ned in that cloak, but holy hell my first thought was how much he actually looked like Robb with the curly hair and I criiiiiedddd

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    99. Chad Brick: “Exactly” is too strong a word. Nothing in the show is “exactly” adapted, nor should it be. However, there is no reason to believe that the Hold-the-Door scene needed any significant changes from unreleased page to the screen.

      Well, there is a reason, because GRRM confirmed that.

      He said that his name reveal in the books will differ in the context and how it happens.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kruq7/spoilers_everything_got_to_hear_grrms_thoughts_on/

      I know it is hard for some to praise D&D, but this scene is similar to the books in the same way that Stannis and his scenes were. The idea is the same, the context and how it happens will be different.

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    100. It’s shocking to me that the show has essentially gone the route of IDGAF on Jon’s resurrection. Not only do they not have it brought up in conversation but the only way it’s referenced is Brienne joking he’s broody BECAUSE HE WAS BROUGHT BACK FROM THE DEAD. Why on earth is everyone so ho hum about it?!

      Ive wondered that myself. This was huge. I was expecting the next episode was going to be everyone’s reactions and questions, long before he started chopping heads off But its like it was all a dream. i get that they wanted to move things along but to avoid the issue completely leaves a big gap in the stor.

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    101. I too wish we had seen something, some reaction from Sansa knowing that Jon had died, but I can also see the other side of the coin in that it probably wasn’t anything to be done in the average 5 minutes of a scene. We know time had to have passed from the time of her arrival to when she was sitting with him complementing the soup. I agree that we aren’t getting much from Melisandre, but I’m pretty sure Jon doesn’t really want to hear much from her right now. He was never a fan, and I know he doesn’t agree with a lot of her logic.
      Seems kind of jangling that it wasn’t addressed, but so far the show is moving at a breakneck speed to tie up the ends and at the end of ADWD there were ALOT of loose ends…lol.
      So far, I’m not complaining.

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    102. mau,
      This scene (hold the door) is similar to the books in the same way that Stannis and his scenes were. The idea is the same, the context and how it happens will be different.

      I don’t know how much context was changed between the two scenes and the two adaptations. From the reddit, it sounds like the only confirmed similarity is that shireen is burned (we don’t know by who) and Wylis holds a door. This makes comparing them not very useful imo. I do think looking at each adaptation individually with its corresponding book canon will be insightful when grrm finishes. I also like that grrm made no excuses about who was to blame for the show getting the reveal first.

      To be fair, Chad did praise D&D as well as the actors (although I would say that Chad could’ve thrown some praise to Bender and the editors too). Parallel editing is tricky (especially with time and space travel) and he made it pretty damn clean. Of course there will be “paradoxes” but from Back to the Future to 12 Monkeys, this was well beyond “believable.” Great work to everyone.

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    103. Mihnea,

      I don’t view that as confirmation. Here’s Benioff’s quote, “People are talking about whether the books are going to be spoiled – and it’s really not true,” Benioff said. “So much of what we’re doing diverges from the books at this point. And while there are certain key elements that will be the same, we’re not going to talk so much about that – and I don’t think George is either. People are going to be very surprised when they read the books after the show. They’re quite divergent in so many respects for the remainder of the show.”

      If you mean the note,

      “The first: Stannis Barathon sacrificing his daughter Shireen – which was shown during the show’s fifth season.” That only confirms the show adaptation of how Shireen is burned. The reddit post aligns with the Benioff quote that the context will differ greatly from both events.

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    104. Tycho Nestoris,
      Dylanstargaryian
      May 24, 2016 at 9:01 am
      Dylanstargaryian:
      I got to work this morning had a thought. Princess was promised to the nights king. Bargain was made .blood raven somehow found out.and has been trying to keep it from happening. Killing off those starks that have to keep the deal.oh yeah and those spirals off bodies in first episode sure looks like a sign .hey where is my princess? Again in the last show saw same spiral “sure could pass for danys sigil.another reason Ned didn’t want Robert to kill her he knew she was promised to the nights king.and as long as she is across sea .he may believe he isn’t responsible any more.feed back please have u heard of this yet?

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    105. Huntermac87,
      Dylanstargaryian
      May 24, 2016 at 9:01 am
      Dylanstargaryian:
      I got to work this morning had a thought. Princess was promised to the nights king. Bargain was made .blood raven somehow found out.and has been trying to keep it from happening. Killing off those starks that have to keep the deal.oh yeah and those spirals off bodies in first episode sure looks like a sign .hey where is my princess? Again in the last show saw same spiral “sure could pass for danys sigil.another reason Ned didn’t want Robert to kill her he knew she was promised to the nights king.and as long as she is across sea .he may believe he isn’t responsible any more.is this an old one or is it mine.feed back

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    106. Dee:
      I just need more of the whole JON was dead and came back and the link to Melisandre… It was the focus of episode 1 and 2 and then bam it’s like forgotten….

      totally agree on that, and it looks like they are not going to mention it anymore at all, now that he will be busy with the battle. But I really want more discussiions of the characters about this event:/

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    107. Wylie,

      I am wondering if the Children did what real people have done and repeat their mistake. We were joking about Cane Toads above (or in another thread), which really are not funny: they were introduced to Australia to deal with pests that were also introduced. And then the have reaped havoc.

      So, I am wondering if a certain self-styled Red God is a Cane Toad.

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    108. taim,

      Only if it is relevant to the story! Daeny’s “rebirth” also netted her an army of previously unwilling followers, and that seems to be central to this year’s story. It is less clear how Jon’s rebirth feeds that.

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    109. Darkrobin,

      he thought that the Lord Protector of the Vale could smuggle his way into Mole’s Town without either the Night’s Watch or any major Northern family knowing about it is almost as asinine as the idea that the Vale’s forces would be camped at Moat Cailin during any of this.</em And he explains why … (although in D&D's defense, they could have sailed there (to the north of Moat Cailin) as opposed to have marched there, which would make more sense.

      While this likely *is* a plot armored development in some way, I don’t think it’s that implausible.

      The Night’s Watch is down to a bare shadow of itself, with hardly enough men to keep Castle Black in operation, let alone keep up patrols in the rest of the region of the Gift – and Mole’s Town is basically deserted now, too.

      As for the Northern Lords: Littlefinger almost certainly came up by boat from Runestone – no other way he could travel that fast – likely landed somewhere short of Eastwatch and rode over to Mole’s Town on horseback with a tiny escort. These lands are mostly uninhabited anyway (which is why Jon could so freely offer some of them to the Wildlings).

      Yes, it does seem curious how Littlefinger can find (barely) plausible “express” journeys to get where he needs to go, and most other characters seem to have a harder and slower time of it. But I have gotten used to that.

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    110. mau: Well, there is a reason, because GRRM confirmed that.

      He said that his name reveal in the books will differ in the context and how it happens.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4kruq7/spoilers_everything_got_to_hear_grrms_thoughts_on/

      I know it is hard for some to praise D&D, but this scene is similar to the books in the same way that Stannis and his scenes were. The idea is the same,the context and how it happens will be different.

      You keep missing the point, mau.

      The TV-sacrifice was terribly mishandled because the vast majority of the audience misunderstood why it even happened. If I had a nickel for each time I heard someone ask “Why did Stannis kill his daughter for a chair?” I’d be able to buy a case of very nice wine by now. This, combined with the fact that the show gave TV-Stannis a number of outs (after all, the Wall and its infinite supplies were just a quick pony-ride away!), made it appear that he did what he did out of some sort of pathetic greed. If somehow Stannis is alive AND gets to his daughter AND sacrifices her, it will be in a different situation for different reasons and with different results. These all matter, a lot.

      As for Sunday’s scene, what matters is the final minute. Yes, the made-for-TV Hardhome-esque horror film scramble leading up to it will be different, but that part was nothing more than thrill-seeking entertainment. There is nothing wrong with that, but it was not the important part of the scene. It was the connection between Bran and Hodor that made the scene great, and that will not change in the books even if the details of the situation in which adult Hodor holds the door. As long as it is done so that Hodor dies saving Bran, it is thematically the same.

      Adaptions doing the details differently is perfectly fine and absolutely necessary. But when they get the big things wrong – the reasonings, choices, and fates of major characters in particular – then they are no longer being adaptions but something far less worthy.

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    111. Josie,

      I honestly have no clue, but Im gonna assume the NK runs his army similar to any other, being that he probably promotes new generals besides him as needed. They probably get more powerful as they get promoted, but could look different for various reasons, probably something to do with the magic.

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