Game of Thrones Season 6 Episode 4 Preview: Book of the Stranger

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“The Temple of the Dosh Khaleen – that’s where they’ll have taken her.”

Tyrion strikes a deal. Jorah and Daario undertake a difficult task. Jaime and Cersei try to improve their situation.


Have a look at the official episode photos here.

“Book of the Stranger” is directed by Daniel Sackheim, and written by David Benioff and Dan Weiss.

Cian: From all the preview material, this looks like it could be a big episode for Dany. Also, are Sansa, Brienne, and Pod at the Wall? Could this be the first Stark sibling reunion since season 1?

400 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Can’t wait for the Stark reunion!!

      Also just saw it’s Iwan’s birthday! Happy birthday, to one of my favourite actors in the show!

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    2. Mag:
      Can’t wait !!! I hope we have a tearful reunion with Jon, Sansa and Ghost… otherwise it will be disappointing.

      I’m sure we will get it lol

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    3. Barbecue is coming! Come, Drogon. Though I still hope Dany does something herself and doesnt just rely on Drogon one more time. But I can’t wait to see how big he should be now!

      I’m thinking Tryrions deal will be with the red priestess? Werent there leaked info saying

      Varys would leave Meereen by Ep04? Those Tyrion, Missandei, GW pics suggest they are seeing someone leaving and since we know Varys will be in the scene with the red priestess should be in this episode…

      Curious to see Yara and Theon also.

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    4. I hope for gods sake that this episode that dany gets about 8 to 9 mins of screentime and gets a good amount of dialogues written for her ..

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    5. I’ve come up with a crazy theory. Dany is going to kill all the Khals and install all the former Khaleesis, destined to wither and die as members of the Dosh Khaleen, at the head of their Khalasars.

      Either that, or she’s just going to burn everyone and be the Khaleesi who leads one big Khalasar. But I like my first theory better. 🙂

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    6. Iam just going to post what i posted in the other thread..

      I am still catching up through all the posts from last week ..so i will just put my speculation and prediction in the below..

      Lots of people think we will be seeing drogon this week and rescue dany ..
      But am positive he will not be seen and will not rescue dany ..

      What I think will happen and hope is that dany and dosh khalleens will be having a conversation about their desires and how this custom forbids them and all and how much they are striving to move out of this life imprisonment..

      Dany will then go into the temple and presented before the khals ..they will start mocking her and I think this is where the suck my dick and want to know how a khaleesi taste comes from .

      Meanwhile jorah and darrio try to infiltrate vaes dothrak and fight their way in ..

      Dany irritated with the khals and their mockery decides to show them who she is and ends up setting fire to the temple ..

      The khals run outside leaving dany to be burnt ..in the meanwhile the khalasars gather around the temple and watching the fire burn down the hut ..

      And amidst smokes and ashes daenerys will remain unburnt and dothraki go down on their knees ..
      And thus we close the episode .

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    7. And before someone says about that shot of drogon above a khalasar ..
      Yes I know there is that shot but that does not mean we will be seeing him in this episode ..
      That shot pretty well could be when dany mounts drogon and signal the khalasars to move forward after uniting the dothraki and starts to march to meereen…

      Just remember that promo video about cinematographers we see a shot of khalasars looking at something burning at the middle of night …

      Drogon appearing over a moving khalasar after dany reached the temple or drogon appearing in a day and then appear at night in the same episode to save dany ..both don’t make much sense

      And mark my words that shot of drogon over khalasar will be in the preview whichever episode it belongs to .

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    8. I can’t stand Emilia’s acting anymore, she’s an overrated actress who’s plays an overrated charectar.

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    9. Where exactly did Theon find a ship to take him to the Iron Islands?

      At last, the debates around whether Sansa and Brienne will go to Castle Black and meet Jon will end just two short days from now.

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    10. Laura,

      Well they will certainly be respected and assume leadership positions..

      Mihnea:
      dragonbringer,

      It could very well happen

      Exactly and I haven’t heard either

      Its something people jumped on to expecting it to happen as a predictable one and used it to ridicule dany that she will be rescued by someone ..

      If one read the books we know dany hardly needs saving …even in the pit she jumped to save drogon not the other way around

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    11. What happened to the other 2 dragons? Are they released (it was confusing the way they walked into the dark) or gonna be released this episode? Drogo may be bigger but still needs his brothers to attack the Dothraki.

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    12. That part of the preview video where Tyrion et.al meeting some Essosi. Could they be the Yunkai and Astapor masters? Does Tyrion have something sinister planned for them? Does it involve dragons?

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    13. I can’t wait to see things escalate in Kings Landing
      so much interesting stuff going on

      Tommen and HS
      Cersei and Olenna
      Cersei and Jaime
      Margaery and HS

      lots of big stuff happening

      And I do think Drogon would’ve been shown in the preview if he was coming right, they usually love ending trailers with Dragon shots. Though they might not considering they never showed Drogon in 5×09 trailers.

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    14. dragonreborn,

      I hope tyrion receives news about dragons left meereen..

      And then we see them with their brother and mother .

      But I don’t want them to attack khalasar because dany does need the khalasar to follow her just burn few khals who oppose dany

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    15. So LF is lying that Sansa escaped to WF! It is obvious that he was determined to marry her with Ramsay no matter who he was. He knows that by manipulating Sweet Robin he can control the Vale army and with the Vale army he can crash the Boltons whenever he wants. He knew that Stannis intention to take WF would only help his plans. He believes he has everything under control…

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    16. Tim of House Deddings,

      I believe they are the slaved men that dany freed …

      In the books we do have people of meereen keep asking about their mhysa and when will she return .
      So they must be equivalent of mothers men and freed men in the books.

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    17. We have been so focused on wherever we will get Sansa at The Wall that the lack of Winterfell in this episode slipped trough.

      Do you think when we see Rickon next time he will be transformed into a new Reek?

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    18. Sean C.:
      Where exactly did Theon find a ship to take him to the Iron Islands?

      Maybe he found a jet pack, or a warp point, like in Super Mario?

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    19. Sean C.:
      Where exactly did Theon find a ship to take him to the Iron Islands?

      I think at this point in the story we need to stop worrying about how/when characters are getting to locations. They arr trimming the fat now and there’s approximately 13 episodes left after this season.

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    20. dothrakian raven,

      He doesn’t lie he says: Sansa has escaped Winterfell, she won’t be safe with the Bolton’s after her.
      For once he speaks the truth. I’m wondering how this will play out. Will he attack the Boltons with an army? How will Sansa react when she sees LF.

      Will the Kingsmoot be in episode 4? What do you people think? I think the episode focus on the return of Theon and Euron who makes an appearance. But the big question is: How will Euron introduce himself to his family. Will he show himself before the Kingsmoot or when the Kingsmoot is happening.

      Jack Bauer 24,

      Would be fun if he arrives at Pyke with Gendry.

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    21. kevin,

      Oh I must have missed it how it never stopped people to claim Jon targaryen born and rising from pyre like you know who yeah like dany ..

      Anyways about the quote ,it is reffered to that event in the books ..and itay very well happen in the future books

      The main thing about the quote is that magic is performed by dany not MMd or any other god ..but by dany herself ..

      There is no reason why she can’t able to do that again .

      I know targs can burn but daenerys is not ordinary targ .

      This leads to all my points about this particular quote by GRRm in previous years while discussing dany’s birth of dragons..that quote as been used as sort of diminishing the event of what dany did by saying its a one time thing ..
      Instead that quote explains the significance of the event and power of daenerys ..by saying its a one time is event what makes dany unique not diminishing.

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    22. dragonbringer:
      Iam just going to post what i posted in the other thread..

      Iam still catching up through all the posts from last week ..so i will just put my speculation and prediction in the below..

      Lots of people think we will be seeing drogon this week and rescue dany ..
      But am positive he will not be seen and will not rescue dany ..

      What I think will happen and hope is that dany and dosh khalleens will be having a conversation about their desires and how this custom forbids them and all and how much they are striving to move out of this life imprisonment..

      Dany will then go into the temple and presented before the khals ..they will start mocking her and I think this is where the suck my dick and want to know how a khaleesi taste comes from .

      Meanwhile jorah and darrio try to infiltrate vaes dothrak and fight their way in ..

      Dany irritated with the khals and their mockery decides to show them who she is and ends up setting fire to the temple ..

      The khals run outside leaving dany to be burnt ..in the meanwhile the khalasars gather around the temple and watching the fire burn down the hut ..

      And amidst smokes and ashes daenerys will remain unburnt and dothraki go down on their knees ..
      And thus we close the episode .

      We know that big tent is probably burning in the next episode and from leaked info from Almería we know

      she’ll show up unschated

      . I’m just not sure if that would be considered “strong enough” to make her win over all khals. A khal who cannot ride is no Khal. So I’m still expecting that after Dany does something to save herself, Drogon will still show up and she’ll mount him again in fron of everyone and that’s how she should gain all khalasars.

      kevin:
      dragonbringer,

      Dannereys will be ash and bone if she does that. The event of episode 1×10 is an one time event.

      Seems like the show has made her fireproof though according to some leaks from this season. We should confirm it on sunday.

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    23. Kargaryen,

      She will gain dosh khaleen and some khalasar and few khals .

      But I expect there to be some opposition from some khals and I think dany will give a speech to the khalasar and khals and then drogon comes and she will claim him as her Mount

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    24. dragonbringer,

      True, and still the show is not the books, so maybe your right about that in the show she really can’t burn. Would be fun if she really set the fire herself and that she sees that she can burn and escape the temple, would give another layer to her character. But still I think it will be drogon because of the shooting of the burning of the temple, as far as I remember they used flamethrowers, the samething they did in episode 5×09 for Drogon

      dothrakian raven,
      But Maybe your right, the previews can be misleading, in the preview for episode 3 Tormund says to Jon: You think you’re some kind of god? In the real episode he says: They think you’re some kind of god. So maybe your right.

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    25. dragonbringer:
      kevin,

      The main thing about the quote is that magic is performed by dany not MMd or any other god ..but by dany herself ..

      There is no reason why she can’t able to do that again .

      I know targs can burn but daenerys is not ordinary targ .

      This leads to all my points about this particular quote by GRRm inprevious years while discussing dany’s birth of dragons..that quote as been used as sort of diminishing the event of what dany did by saying its a one time thing ..
      Instead that quote explains the significance of the event and power of daenerys ..by saying its a one time is event what makes dany unique not diminishing.

      Yes it really irks me when people try to discredit Daenerys by saying that she did not perform the magic. George said that Dany made the magic up as she went along not Mirri Maz Duur.

      http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html?ie=UTF8&docId=49161

        Quote  Reply

    26. kevin,

      I don’t see how it adds any layer other than making people laugh at her ..

      Where did u get that flamethrower bit from ..i must have missed it can you provide an link.

      And happy birthday Iwan

        Quote  Reply

    27. dragonbringer:
      Iam just going to post what i posted in the other thread..

      Iam still catching up through all the posts from last week ..so i will just put my speculation and prediction in the below..

      Lots of people think we will be seeing drogon this week and rescue dany ..
      But am positive he will not be seen and will not rescue dany ..

      What I think will happen and hope is that dany and dosh khalleens will be having a conversation about their desires and how this custom forbids them and all and how much they are striving to move out of this life imprisonment..

      Dany will then go into the temple and presented before the khals ..they will start mocking her and I think this is where the suck my dick and want to know how a khaleesi taste comes from .

      Meanwhile jorah and darrio try to infiltrate vaes dothrak and fight their way in ..

      Dany irritated with the khals and their mockery decides to show them who she is and ends up setting fire to the temple ..

      The khals run outside leaving dany to be burnt ..in the meanwhile the khalasars gather around the temple and watching the fire burn down the hut ..

      And amidst smokes and ashes daenerys will remain unburnt and dothraki go down on their knees ..
      And thus we close the episode .

      I think you’re on to something here. Remember the first (?) trailer where we see a hand reaching for the fire? I think it will be in this very scene and Dany will show them she’s fire proof!

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    28. Jay Targ,

      Well it should have been clear by just reading those chapters and doesn’t need GRRM to state the obvious but that’s the case with dany .

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    29. dragonreborn:
      What happened to the other 2 dragons? Are they released (it was confusing the way they walked into the dark) or gonna be released this episode? Drogo may be bigger but still needs his brothers to attack the Dothraki.

      Not if he shows up at Vaes Dothrak. Remember they can’t carry any weapons there. They wouldn’t be able to harm him.

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    30. andriakenas,

      Yeah exactly and that’s what am basing this on ..and no need to doubt what trailer it was showed because ..that shot was in both of the trailers .

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    31. andriakenas: I think you’re on to something here. Remember the first (?) trailer where we see a hand reaching for the fire? I think it will be in this very scene and Dany will show them she’s fire proof!

      Yes, thats dany touching the brazier. She’ll either show them what she’s made of or will just ser fire on the tent.

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    32. All I can think about is The Stark Reunion That Was Promised! Born amidst the smoke from the mutineers’ funeral pyre and Sansa’s tears.

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    33. Kargaryen,

      If she does end up being fireproof, I think she is and if we don’t get concrete evidence proving she isn’t will continue to believe this, I will come here with a huge smile on my face and popcorn in hand to see all those who called me ”idiot” for believing this.

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    34. kevin,
      I thought the whole death pays for death can be utilized again by her to survive another of these? Or maybe in the show, it’s just canon that she’s immune to flame?

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    35. I must be in the minority group that thinks LF does actually care for Sansa in his own creepy LF way. I believe that he did actually make a huge mistake in judgement as far as Ramsay goes. Doesn’t mean I think he deserves full forgiveness from Sansa but I hope he’s trying to be the anti-hero when it comes to having her back.

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    36. andriakenas,

      Oh how I wish they give her something to speak other than those titles and show us some of the character she has showed in the books.. at least give her the lines from the books .

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    37. Warginfortheweekend,

      She is fire proof in show canon. This isn’t even debatable. Just like she is NOT fireproof in the books. She, like other Targaryens before her, has a certain level of heat resistance when it involves her dragons.

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    38. Question 1) Cersei will learn from the little birds, Kevan plans on sending her back to Casterly Rock. Kevan and Grand Maester Pycelle are killed

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    39. Hoyti Von Totiy:
      We have been so focused on wherever we will get Sansa at The Wall that the lack of Winterfell in this episode slipped trough.

      Do you think when we see Rickon next time he will be transformed into a new Reek?

      I don’t know if we’ll have any scenes in Winterfell, but perhaps its presence will be felt. I hope and believe that Jon and Sansa are in fact going to reunite in this episode, which should be a tremendously cathartic moment. However, once they’re together, I wonder if the Wall’s storyline this week might close with Ramsay sending a challenge to Jon, which would kick off the next phase of the Northern story.

      The photo of Melisandre that was released before the season (http://www.farfarawaysite.com/section/got/gallery6/gallery5/gallery.htm) suggests that our main characters will leave Castle Black in Episode 5. That’s also supported by the Episode 5 synopsis that says “Brienne goes on a mission”. So perhaps Ramsay sends the ‘Pink Letter’ to Jon near the end of Episode 4. In response, Jon, Sansa, Davos, and Melisandre decide to leave Castle Black and start rallying the loyal Northern houses, which should carry their story for the next four episodes leading up the Battle of the Bastards. Sansa, meanwhile, instructs Brienne to head back south and look for Arya.

      I don’t think Rickon will become the new Reek. That’s old ground. Whatever games Ramsay plays with him will probably be more of the psychological variety. I’d be more worried for Osha, because unlike Rickon, she has no real value as a hostage.

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    40. Question 2) Jon will wandering around in the wilderness to figure out what the hell just happen and what is his future for 40 days and 40 nights

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    41. dragonbringer,

      I wish they would’ve followed the books more closely in that aspect. Dany’s last two chapters in Dance are fantastic. I think it probably would’ve sped up her storyline as well because

      Drogon is with her when she encounters the Dothraki in the books.

      It seems like in the show she’s just reciting her titles and if that doesn’t work, repeat. Hopefully she saves herself without the need of Drogon, and especially without the need of Jorah and Daario.

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    42. Kargaryen,

      I think that’s next week. The Episode 5 synopsis says that “Tyrion seeks a strange ally”. So maybe Tyrion treats with the Masters this week, and realizes they’re headed for war. Then he meets with High Priestess Kinvara in the next episode and agrees to allow her Red Priests free run of the city in order to get the common people back on Dany’s side.

      We know that Varys eventually leaves Meereen, but it was never confirmed when precisely that happens. We do know that he’s present for Tyrion’s meeting with Kinvara (and isn’t happy about it). Perhaps his uneasiness with this new alliance is what spurs him to leave the city and return to Westeros to prepare for Dany’s eventual arrival.

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    43. Question 3) Dany stands in front of at least 20 Khals in the temple. Some are laughing at her, others are worried. Daario and Jorah are captured and brought into this meeting to support those against Dany. A decision is made to kill them. Drogon arrives and burns the temple down including the Khals. Dany mounts Drogon. These old Khaleesi see this and announce Dany and Drogon full fills the prophesy “The Stallion that Mounts the World”. Dany unites all the Khalasars and these Khaleesi are Dany generals

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    44. Jay Targ: I wish they would’ve followed the books more closely in that aspect.

      Word to the wise – duck.

      Any mention of the B .. O .. O .. K .. S whatsoever will usually get you branded with the “purist” hot iron by some in these parts.

      🙂

        Quote  Reply

    45. Jay Targ,

      If they had done the same as in the books..

      Then there would never have been these complaints about dany getting saved by others …

      Funnily enough these complaints dont arise with any other character . for example does anyone seen any complaints Jon getting saved by others on numerous occasions.

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    46. Flayed Potatoes,

      Yup, the one event I am most looking forward to!

      Davos looks pretty unhappy in that pic with the smoke behind him. Maybe he is watching Mel once again corner Jon and start talking prophecies?

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    47. Jay Targ,

      dragonbringer,

      It seems like there are just as many people who complain about Dany in the books as in the show. She repeated phrases like “If I look back, I am lost” and “I am only a young girl and know little in the ways of war” just as often as she repeats her titles on the show.

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    48. I’m calling it now … Tyrion meets with emissaries from astapor yunkai and volantis and they demand to see dany he says they shall see her soon then leads them down into the dragon dungeon where he strikes a deal stop attacking or feel the wrath of the dragons

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    49. taim:
      I am kind of tired of Dany always getting saved by Drogon, its getting repetitive…

      Wait… How many times has Drogon saved her? He wasn’t saving her when she had him torch Kraznys… So, one time from the pit then. I suppose all three baby dragons in the temple counts kind of.

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    50. What I find amusing and a bit perplexing, is how some say they don’t want Drogon to save her but want the final chapter from ADWD….Where she will get that Khalasar because Drogon’s there..

      I would like if Dany unites the khalasars alone and Drogon comes later.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      God, don’t remind me about the last line.

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    51. Clob: Wait…How many times has Drogon saved her?He wasn’t saving her when she had him torch Kraznys…So, one time from the pit then.

      it would be nice if at least one time she will be able to save herself on her own.

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    52. Someone is posting spoilers on here, don’t know if they’re legit though but it’s best to delete them just to be sure.

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    53. Clob,

      1 time he saved her. ”Saved” he didn’t grab her and flew away….

      He came and started killing people, Dany pulled a spear from him and got on his back and then she ordered him to fly away.

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    54. Mihnea,

      Because in the books, she wasn’t saved by Drogon in the fighting pits.
      Drogon attack the pits, she tamed him, and rode him.
      Having Drogon save her so soon after he just magically saved her would feel a bit cheap depending on how they do it.

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    55. There is a different plot summary for episode 4 on imdb but I don’t believe it’s real, cause you know, it’s unreliable lmao.

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    56. HelloThere,

      And she did just that in the show. She pulled a spear from him, climbed on his back and told him to fly. He didn’t grab her in his claws and flew into the sunset…

      And god am I glad we didn’t get that stupid whip and dragons acting like dogs. I hated that scene with a passion.

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    57. dragonbringer,

      Yes, Barristan never saved Dany twice in the books or anything. But I hear you when you say people never complain about other characters being saved. But that is because they enjoy them more. So when Podrick or Jaime save Tyrion, they don’t complain because they like Tyrion. When Jon is saved by Bran, they don’t have an issue because they like him. So, as you say, other main characters have been saved just as often, but Dany is singled out because there is a subset of fans who just don’t like her or are bored by her stagnated story.

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    58. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Well like you said people like to bitch about anything relates dany.

      Take “if I look back iam lost ” this is something she thinks in her mind …
      and I think that line about only a little girl was always done in the context and its when she asks for the advise of the council ( she has been the mostly described as not listening to advisors ,a complete opposite to what she does in the books)..

      I mean does these lines are any different from .tyrion’s ” where does whores go ” and Jamie’s ” fucking lancel kettlebacks and moonboy ” or jon’s “you know nothing ” .arya’s ” no one”

      gRrm as given his major characters some key lines that helps define their character and affect them.

      Clob,

      And if you take the books… Dany saved drogon ..

      And in the show both drogon and dany save each other …drogon flies into pit to save dany …dany flies drogon out of pit to save him ..

      Yet here we are

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    59. Mihnea,

      I loved the scene both in the book and the show

      But, Im just saying, purely from my perspective,
      I would like to see Dany pull through most of the situation without her dragon’s help
      Just my perspective, thats it.

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    60. -I hope Dany is still fireproof (at least for show purposes) and the surviving khals are apologetic.
      -I am worried Daario isn’t what he seems and Jorah might find out and be temporarily sidelined.
      -I have a feeling Rickon will not be what Ramsay is expecting. He’s a little feral and being raised by a badass wildling.
      -PS-saw this and made so much sense. if Umber is willing to join forces with Ramsay because he hates the wildlings, why is Osha alive and why did he say she was “a wild one” and not a “wildLING”? *GNC
      -PPS-I really hope that’s the CB gate they are coming through, not just for a much needed Stark reunion but also because Davos, Tormund, Brienne, Jon and Pod all in the same place? That would be my heaven.
      -Cersei needs to start killing people this episode. Let’s start with Kevan, Lancel and Pycelle. “I choose violence”
      -Has anyone else wondered if Margery will betray Loras to prove her obedience to the Faith?
      -I’m looking forward to Jon seeing Sansa and finding out Arya, Bran and Rickon are still alive. When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives.
      ETA-would LOVE another Bran vision. Is that too greedy? He does need to learn everything…

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    61. Mihnea:
      taim,

      She always did.

      Drogon didn’t just grab her and flew away. She got on his back and told him to fly. She saved herself there.

      doesnt matter, she did get help from him. And thats not even the problem, her storyline is kind of stagnating and she always says the same stuff ” iam the mother of dragons ” and blah blah… some people get tired of it.

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    62. Kargaryen: Not if he shows up at Vaes Dothrak. Remember they can’t carry any weapons there. They wouldn’t be able to harm him.

      good point!

      dragonbringer,
      I hope Drogo knows he should just do a little trick to impress Dothraki instead of burning them all

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    63. Mihnea:
      What I find amusing and a bit perplexing, is how some say they don’t want Drogon to save her but want the final chapter from ADWD….Where she will get that Khalasar because Drogon’s there..

      I would like if Dany unites the khalasars alone and Drogon comes later.

      This scenario would be fine by me.

        Quote  Reply

    64. kevin,

      I think the KM will begin with Yara the apparent favorite, but then Euron will appear with all of his followers to back him and it will be a surprise turnabout. There’s no way it will be as drawn out as the books.

        Quote  Reply

    65. HelloThere,

      I hate that scene in the books, lets just not talk about it.

      I would like to see Dany unite the Dothraki alone as well. But I wouldn’t mind Drogon, because I see him as a extension of her.

        Quote  Reply

    66. I think an issue is of the “repetitive” charge is they changed what happens in the pit in the show. Drogon saves her in the books, but not intentionally as they showed it on the show. He’s uncontrollable and Dany has to whip him. She mounts him to try to ride him out of there before he kills everyone. I think what George was aiming for was this is the moment Drogon gains respect for Dany and obedience to her. And in Winds he will ensure no harm comes to her and be the power force that helps her unite the Dothraki to her cause. This is essentially what we’re about to see happen this Sunday.

      In the show they already showed Drogon swooping in to save the day at the pit. They’re going to do it again here. It will be a cool scene, but it’s why people are going to say it’s getting repetitive. Because it is going to be a very similar thing. Drogon swoops in, burns everything, saves Dany. Dothraki probably kneel to her after. It is what it is. They chose a different route for the pit scene and it turned out very good. But I can see why people will claim it’s repetitive.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Since there are some people mentioning the Stalion Who Mounts The World prophecy, important to mention again that in the last episode in dany’s dialogue with the DK they should have mentioned TSWMTW twice but HBO cut that line out.

        Quote  Reply

    68. lpR7,

      Drogon arrives and starts killing people. He then doesn’t even pay her any atention until she pulls the spear out of him. Then she climbs on his backs and SHE tells him to fly. She saved herself there just as much Drogon did.

      During that scene, there was only 1 thing I could think about. Do not bring the freaking whip and turn Dragons into dogs.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Mihnea,

      That won’t be drogon at all there is a difference from having appear drogon whenever she seems to face a danger ..

      Look at the comments drogon has came once during the pit and look at the complaints..

      That last dany chapter is completely about dany how she gets to realize her mistakes and how she embraces her targaryen side and remember who she is.

      At the end of the chapter what we see is dany in control of drogon at last after spending the whole book chaining her inner dragon.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I never said barristan didn’t save her ..did I

      Those subset of fans who don’t realise that their favorite character has been saved many times by others also ..that’s the problem ..
      See I don’t have a problem with them getting saved because I like them and understand how story works ..
      If people don’t care or like dany then why bother with mentioning that in every thread there is ..
      Why cant they enjoy what they like and let others who care for dany enjoy her storyline

        Quote  Reply

    70. I preferred the show version of Daenerys & Drogon in the pit better as well. I’d rather it appear as if he came to help her as opposed to being drawn there by the blood and noise. I liked that he recognized her as opposed to shooting flames at her and being whipped into submission.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Mihnea,

      In the books he killed the leader of second son lead to reveal his identity

      And if we are going to count who said who then dany did save barristan in pit .

        Quote  Reply

    72. dragonbringer,

      Yeah… I really don’t want to get into this book talk.. It would derail the thread and I don’t want to enter this debate… I strongly disliked that scene…

      But I completely agree on you second point about people complaining about her being saved but not other characters.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Mihnea,

      Has nothing to do with dogs. George established early on part of the process of taming dragons was the whip. Mentioned it even in the Dunk and Egg novellas. It’s part of the obedience binding that he created in this fictional world used for centuries. This was not some random thing George decided to add at that moment.

      Plus Drogon comes to the pit in the books because he smells blood not because Dany is in trouble. Why did he come to the pit in the show? They never established why, but I’m sure if you polled 100 viewers at least 51 would say because Dany was in trouble and he wanted to save her. Which is fine. But this is what’s going to happen again on Sunday. So in the span of 6 episodes Drogon comes swooping in twice, to save the day when all seems bleak for Dany. I could understand why some may find that “repetitive”.

        Quote  Reply

    74. RG:
      olence”
      -Has anyone else wondered if Margery will betray Loras to prove her obedience to the Faith?

      No I don’t think it’ll happen in this way!
      I think Loras will sacrifice himself and get executed to save his sister
      And after all that Marg and her grandma and her dad will go back to Highgarden.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Clob,

      Exactly!!!

      I love this Mother/child relation much better then master/dog one.
      I know that scene is considered to be among the best in the book but I hated it with a fiery passion.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Isn’t Jaime going to the Riverlands? Seems like the KL plot needs to pick up the pace in the next few episodes

        Quote  Reply

    77. dragonbringer,

      “If they had done the same as in the books..

      Then there would never have been these complaints about dany getting saved by others …”

      I was responding to this quote of yours. When you say “others”, I took that to mean you were speaking about more than Drogon at Daznak’s Pit.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Mihnea:
      dragonbringer,

      Yeah… I really don’t want to get into this book talk.. It would derail the thread and I don’t want to enter this debate… I strongly disliked that scene…

      But I completely agree on you second point about people complaining about her being saved but not other characters.

      George dropped the ball there.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Mihnea,

      It isn’t just her
      People complained about Sansa last season (having another victim Story)
      and about Theon saving her in the end
      (Though I think those people were really looking at it from a surface level).

      This is the last time Im going to bring this up, but her big climactic scene last season (which was amazing) involved Drogon swooping in just in time to save her from peril,
      and I just would rather the story not repeat again almost immediately (including the “arriving exactly on time” part)
      I’d still love the hell out of it if its done bad ass enough, lol (and we still have more than half the season left)

        Quote  Reply

    80. lpR7:
      Mihnea,

      Has nothing to do with dogs. George established early on part of the process of taming dragons was the whip. Mentioned it even in the Dunk and Egg novellas. It’s part of the obedience binding that he created in this fictional world used for centuries. This was not some random thing George decided to add at that moment.

      Plus Drogon comes to the pit in the books because he smells blood not because Dany is in trouble. Why did he come to the pit in the show? They never established why, but I’m sure if you polled 100 viewers at least 51 would say because Dany was in trouble and he wanted to save her. Which is fine. But this is what’s going to happen again on Sunday. So in the span of 6 episodes Drogon comes swooping in to save the day when all seems bleak for Dany. I could understand why some may find that “repetitive”.

      In the show they make Dany connect with him by her brain, there’s no another explain for why she closed her eyes the way she did
      That scene was the stupidest scene in the show

        Quote  Reply

    81. lpR7,

      And I hate the whip! It destroyed the dragons for me!
      I despise that bloody whip! I hate how it turned their relation.

      I don’t think Drogon came to save her, just because he didn’t eve pay her any attention!!
      Only after she pulled the spear from him did he even noticed her!
      Then she gets on his back, and orders him to fly. She tells him to fly!

      I love the mother/child relation she has in the show. I loved how Drogon looked at her, to their bond is much more deep here. More then master/dog needing to be whiped!

      This is it. I will no longer talk about the books one sentance. I would appreciate if you will do the same, when replying to my comments.

        Quote  Reply

    82. dragonbringer,

      The repeating of lines has the same effect for all characters. I began to get really tired of Dany, Tyrion and Jamie due to their tiresome lines. Dany made me rolled my eyes at her every time she would used the “I’m just a girl” line. Ugh. And Tyrion, a once witty character, just became this annoying and bitter shadow of his former self. Jamie and his “Moonboy” lines were just, imo, concrete proof that Jamie is an idiot who wasted all his potential and life for someone who was not worth it.

      The “you know nothing” was only annoying when Ygritee kept repeating for no reason. And I never found Arya’s “no one” annoying, it is in fact something that she has to learn to be so repeating it over and over again is part of that process.

        Quote  Reply

    83. lpR7,

      Clob,

      Drogon came in the books the very moment dany removes the floppy ears …when she rejects meereenese culture at last drogkn arrives .
      Similar to how ghost comes to Jon when he is debating he should accept stannis proposal or not ..

      Drogon came because of dany’s connection that as been showed in show version ..that bit about blood and crowd is ridiculous

      When people say dany saved drogon …she jumps into the pit when hizdar orders to kill drogon..the poisoning was not known by that time..

        Quote  Reply

    84. The Blood of Winterfull,

      Oh plz, she didn’t contact him telepathically…
      Even the showrunners confirmed in the “inside the episode” that Dany was closing her eyes and holding Missandei’s hand to prepare for death..

      Was Sansa telepathically communicating w/ Brienne to save her?

        Quote  Reply

    85. RG,

      I think after all what happens they won’t want to be a royal family anymore, I won’t blame them 🙁
      And yes I don’t think they’ll all make it to Highgarden 🙁
      I think Olena and Loras will die 🙁
      And I really hope that Marg make it to the end 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    86. If they are going to show much of Dany in this episode, I hope something happens to her story that makes it work for me. So far, her story is the only one I have no patience for. I do not see her having gone through as much as the others to actually deserve the “special” aura that is put on her. Just my personal opinion.

        Quote  Reply

    87. The problem with Drogon not appearing in this episode is that I am assuming this will be where Dany gets the Khals on her side. If she has Drogon by her, they will believe he is the Stallion that mounts the world. Without him, what does Dany burning down the temple and walking through the flames accomplish? Okay, it’s a neat trick, but it’s hardly going to convince them to follow her. She needs the weapon that breathes fire to do that, IMO.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Mihnea,

      I’m not a book purist looking to have that type of pointless argument. I only utilized the books to highlight the change they made in the pit version of the show. And the only reason I did that was because I could see the point of people who think having Drogon save her at the last moment twice is a repetitive decision. I would prefer if she unites the Dothraki on her own and Drogon appears to solidify that at the end in this episode. I think that makes for a better story and would really highlight Dany’s strength and seriousness as a leader.

      If we get a situation where Jorah and Daario are captured and either them or all 3 about to be executed and right at the last moment…here comes Drogon…I would find that repetitive and a missed opportunity for furthering the character of Dany.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Kargaryen,

      Very good point. I hadn`t thought about that. If one were willing to subdue or decimate the Dothraki, that would be the perfect spot.

        Quote  Reply

    90. HelloThere,

      I know the way she closed her eyes has zero connection with Dorogon
      But the way they film it make it like she connected with him
      That’s why I said it the stupidest scene in the show

        Quote  Reply

    91. lpR7,

      Nowhere in my comments I called you a purist.

      And I agree with you, that it would be very nice if she unites the Dothraki before Drogon meets them as well.
      I said I just wouldn’t be bothered if it did happen.

        Quote  Reply

    92. lpR7,

      And she doesn’t uses whip in the last chapter and looks like she can control drogon even more stronger when she makes him follow the khalasar ..

      Where did u get that drogon came because of blood ..through barristan .what knowledge does barristan have in the books about dragon lore …
      Wee see in TPtQ that dragons feel sense their masters and goes to them…for example sunfyre going to dragonstone.

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Oh sorry I meant the commenters ..

        Quote  Reply

    93. Mihnea,

      No I didn’t mean to imply that you called me a purist. I know I was talking about the books a lot, and figured I might be coming off that way. But I was only referencing them for a specific reason in this case.

        Quote  Reply

    94. I think everybody would agree Dany’s story could have evolved faster over the past two seasons. I have never seen the use of her camping at Meereen for so long. That’s why I think her story speed will be kicked up a notch this season, starting this weekend.

      I also think Dany’s feet will touch Westerosi ground this season, I would even go as far as stating that she must, if she is to be taken seriously in the last season and a half.

      Not aware of anything like this has been reported about this or not, but it would be a nice touch is Arya and Dany would cross paths or even go to Westeros together. And if Arya and Bran would somehow hook up on their arrival and link to Jon and/or Sansa. But that would possibly just be too much happiness, if either Dany T and the Dragoneers and Jonny Oathbreaker and his Wildlings would accept each other at all.

      I also wonder: Would they hook up at all? If Dany takes a horde of Dothraki along with her, I would suspect they could not handle the cold too well if they join the fight against the White Walkers. Same goes for the Wildlings, if they would ever help down south to seize the Iron Throne in the heat. Would they hook up somewhere in the Riverlands and agree to take the battle south and North at te same time?

        Quote  Reply

    95. lpR7,

      I know. I just didn’t want to talk about that anymore simply because it’s off-topic and had the chance of derailing the thread.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Confirmed characters and locations:

      THE WALL: Sansa, Brienne, Podrick, Davos, Edd, Jon, Tormund.

      THE VALE: Littlefinger, Yohn Royce, Sweetrobin.

      PYKE: Theon, Yara.

      KING’S LANDING: Cersei, Jaime, Kevan, Olenna, Margaery, Loras, High Sparrow.

      MEEREEN: Tyrion, Varys, Missandei, Grey Worm.

      VAES DOTHRAK: Daenerys, Khal Moro, Jorah, Daario, Dosh Khaleen Matron.

      RIDING THE BENCH: Arya, Ramsay, Sam, Gilly, Tommen, Bran.

      PREDICTIONS: Sansa and company arrive at the Wall, and Starks reunite for the first time since the Red Wedding. While there, Jon receives a version of the Pink Letter, demanding the return of Sansa and Theon, as well as the fealty of the Wildling leader. Team Jonsa decides on a plan of action.

      We’ll get a check in with Littlefinger in the Vale. He’ll convince Sweetrobin to mobilize the Knights of the Vale to support Sansa against the Boltons.

      In Kings Landing, Jaime and Cersei will begin flexing their muscles (Ser Gregor, Little Birds). Kevan and Olenna will continue to resist letting them back into the Inner Circle. At the Sept of Baelor, Margaery will confess to the High Sparrow in order to see her brother. This should be the beginning of whatever path she takes to get out of the cells by 606.

      In Meereen, Tyrion and Varys will meet with the Masters of the cities arrayed against Daenerys. There will be some back and forth, more good one-liners from Tyrion, but in the end it will be clear that war is the only outcome.

      Finally, at Vaes Dothrak, Daenerys faces her judgment at the hands of the assembled khals. Jorah and Daario will attempt a rescue, but will fail and be captured. As it becomes apparent that the khals will not have any remorse for Dany, she will save herself by tipping a brazier in the Temple. Many of those opposed to her will die in the flames, but Dany will emerge unburnt. Drogon will be attracted to the conflagration, and will land by the side of his mother at the end of the episode.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Overall,
      Im ridiculously hyped for this episode and for Dany’s moment (regardless if it involves Dragon ex machina)

      But most of all, I want Cersei’s imgoingshitcrazy arc to go into full gear
      CHOOSE VIOLENCE

      … sorry, Cersei is strangely my favorite character, lol………..

      HousePotterz,

      I LIKE that ending… It seems from the trailers that Drogon appears during the day, and i think Danys trial is at night

        Quote  Reply

    98. Olly on a String,

      Mihnea,

      Dany and Tyrion’s final scene of the season should be them preparing to sail for Westeros, IMO. If there are really only 13 episodes left after this season, Dany has to be in Westeros for at least 10 of them, or so I hope.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Wouldn’t this be a great opportunity to show Dany’s visions in the house of the undying in Qarth – while she is with the Dosh Khaleen. Perhaps they have some vision mech, which they use to foretell the Stallion who…

      The visions from the book in the house of the undying weren’t on the show – am I right? It would set the stage for the the r+l=j reveal nicely – however I don’t think they’ve cast R, so maybe that isn’t on the cards.

        Quote  Reply

    100. The Blood of Winterfull,

      I think those who thought that she is summoning drogon were wrong in reading that scene

      Danny,

      Yes but it gets thrown out more around dany ..

      For me i dont mind anyone of them like i said it defines each one of their character ..

      The line ” if i look back iam lost is inportant to dany ” since now she realizes she needs to not only look back but must go back to go forward ..

      Take another line of dany” am the blood of dragon ” this line was always said in the mind of dany …when dany feels scared and wants to show strength and help her people she keeps repeating it in her heart to keep herself strong …
      But it as been used as an example of dany being entitled.

      That’s why I think show is making a mistake by making her reciting the titles …this gives the impressuom she is entitled
      And take for example the lines like ” am wife of great khal ” to other dish khaleens is stupid and something dany will not say..

      Glad they removed the line ” my son is TSWMTW ” because dany thinks that’s the example of why someone should not trust prophecy and keeps doubting it ..

        Quote  Reply

    101. dragonbringer,

      Yea, I wish they had written that scene with Dany trying to explain to the DK that she had people and a city waiting for her…
      But then again, Dany was in a panic, and I think she was more or less trying to use whatever she could to get out, and probably thought trying to inspire fear would be the best route, but the resulting impression comes off as entitled.

      But if Dany was truly entitled, she’d have left Meereen long ago, rather than stay.. Her plot for the last 2 seasons has been built on the foundation of “how can I rule 7 kingdoms if I can’t control slavers bay”, meaning she wants to prove to herself that she can earn the right to rule.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Mihnea:
      dragonbringer,

      It could very well happen

      we have information about the hut being on fire but nothing on Drogon being there, as far as I remember.
      Something tells me that Drogon definitely wasn’t there in real life. He could have been CGIed in later with extras not being able to confirm he was the cause of the fire.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Warginfortheweekend: I thought the whole death pays for death can be utilized again by her to survive another of these? Or maybe in the show, it’s just canon that she’s immune to flame?

      The “death pays for life” was how the three dragon eggs were hatched. Three sacrifices (Khal Drogo, unborn Rhaego, Mirri Maz Duur) paid for the lives of the three dragons.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      That’s the thing though when dothraki bowed to dany in drogo pyre because she survived the pyre and bithed three dragons ..

      They tied the bell around dany’s hair not in drogon

      The dosh khaleen bow down to dany in the HOTU..

      But the Stallion who mounts the world must have an some special ride worthy of the name and what best ride is there other than a largest living dragon .

      And one more reason I dong want drogon anywhere near dany in this episode is then we will have this theory of him being TSWMTW …I mean the only one prophecy Jon is not near so cant be made fit into ..so we make it as drogon .

      Tyrion Pimpslap,

      I agree with this though and believe she will decide to sail towards KL

        Quote  Reply

    105. HelloThere,

      Yeah but I somehow feel like they just don’t spend enough time in writing her character..
      It’s started way back in season 2 that season should have been showed us how she is different from viserys like ACOK did and not made her another viserys..

      I miss lines like ” why did the god create kings and queens if not for to protect those who can’t protect themselves ” ….

      ” A Queen belongs to her people and not to herself ” ..

      ” A queen should put her people first and not hers” ..

      Her helping out those who are affected by pale mare..helping them bath and eat ..

      Her speech with missandei about red door and other things ..

      Her love and care for jorah …it was jorah’s fault he gets banished ..and for being friendzone she says way back in ASoS that she cant love the same way he does straight to his face but she cares for him.

      Even after she banished him she thinks about him whether he has reached his home..

      These are somethings that show can built on and would have helped dany a lot interms of getting more fans ..

      Its not that they don’t film these scene but they generally botch it up and end up deleting it ..
      We had dany missandei scene and dany mentioning jorah will advice differently to see barristan ..but both got deleted ..

      And hence that is one of my fear that we do have a nice scene between dany and dosh khaleen with good dialogues and nice Knight into their character which does not end up deleted

        Quote  Reply

    106. andriakenas: time for

      I think Tywin’s quote about if you need to say you are the king you aren’t really the king (paraphrased) applies equally well to a queen/khaleesi.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Warden of the Northwest,

      Just look at the above post of yours to know what dany think of the queenship and how she sees it ..

      And besides its not like she is reciting the titles always for those who know them nor does she say she is the queen she can do whatever she want …

      Both situations in episode 1 she introduces who she is …and in episode 3 she is asked why she didn’t come right after drogo died and she tells them why ..

      So its nowhere near how joffery said and the comparison is ridiculous

        Quote  Reply

    108. Everyone’s excitement over a Stark reunion this week, reminds me of everyone’s excitement for TOJ last week.

      But has previous evidence shown us that this is likely? Or that this is a near miss? hmmmm. We are being ganked. again.

        Quote  Reply

    109. andriakenas,

      I remember that scene in the preview, but I am pretty sure it shows her hand wearing the ring that she left for Darrio and Jorah to find. Does that indicate that they have already gotten to her at that point?

        Quote  Reply

    110. Mihnea,

      1 time he saved her? Well apart from the time when she said Drakarys to the dragon(s) and they incinerated the magician back in season 3?

        Quote  Reply

    111. The Blood of Winterfull: In the show they make Dany connect with him by her brain, there’s no another explain for why she closed her eyes the way she did
      That scene was the stupidest scene in the show

      That’s not true. In the Inside the Episode video they said she closed her eyes because she thought it was over, and she wouldn’t like to die screaming, she’d die having a moment with herself, and at that time Drogon came because he felt his mother was in great peril because there’s this deep connection between the Targaryen and their dragons. It’s not like she called him with his mind.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Izatty,

      I thought the entire TOJ scene would not happen last week. I believe the Sansa-Jon reunion will happen this week. I think most people would agree that Davos and Mel are now connected with Jon. Well, we have photographic proof that they are still at Castle Black in episodes 4 and 5. I think Jon and Sansa reunite in this episode and receive a version of the Pink Letter at the end. Episode 5 will see them depart to rally the North to their side. IMO.

        Quote  Reply

    113. dragonbringer,

      Which is why I find the strange argument that show Daenerys is a perfect “Mary Sue” strange.

      Aren’t there some spoilers saying she’ll make friends with a Dothraki woman, or something like that?

        Quote  Reply

    114. Izatty,

      On those earlier near misses you are talking about it was necessary for the story that the Starks didn’t reunite (Bran needed to keep going to the 3ER, Arya’s destiny was at Braavos not with Sansa, and well at Twins she was just a little too late… which is actually a good thing). This time there is no reason why Jon and Sansa couldn’t reunite, Bastard Bowl will be both of their storyline for the rest of the season.

        Quote  Reply

    115. LMAO, admin on official Game of Thrones facebook page uploaded the Beautiful Death poster for Oathbreaker and accidently put Oathkeeper lol.

        Quote  Reply

    116. HelloThere,

      A lot of those words are thrown around without even knowing what the terms means ..

      I hate whenever the terms like plot armor or plot gifts or plot hole or Mary sue or Gary stu is used ..

      If you google plot armor or plot gits you will see westeros.org at the top results …which says lot about this fandom both books as well as show..

      And in regards to dany thats why I feel sorry for Emilia …she simply was not given anything to work with in the last couple of seasons…but whenever she had the opportunity she did good .

      yes I believe ..there was a gang of young female warriors were cast who i assume was other widows with dany ..

      We see dany speak with one in the spain promo video as well

        Quote  Reply

    117. dragonbringer,

      I actually really loved her scene with the Khal in 6×01 where she recites her titles, because the dynamic was such that she had to assert herself in the most powerful way she could.
      It was the repetition in 6×03 that bothered me.

      Imo, 5×02 was the strongest Dany material we’ve had since season 3. The beginning of season 5 did set up some interesting scenes where we saw her uncertainty and fears, but then her character kinda fell off the radar until 5×09.

      But whatever… we’ve had < 10 minutes of Dany footage so far, so I can't judge anything.

        Quote  Reply

    118. HelloThere,

      Agree with you on both the points ..

      I have my issues with season 5 though like dany running from dragons and hizdar’s character …its complete opposite to the books which reached the point where people compared hizdar to sansa and dany to Ramsey ..

        Quote  Reply

    119. dragonbringer,

      Ah come on. Dany being the one who initiated the wedding idea was a great scene.
      Hizdhar was also a nice guy. Loved his scenes.

      Her running from the dragons shows great character evolution, when in the pit scene she goes straight to Drogon and doesn’t even flinch when he roars.

        Quote  Reply

    120. lpR7: But this is what’s going to happen again on Sunday. So in the span of 6 episodes Drogon comes swooping in twice, to save the day when all seems bleak for Dany. I could understand why some may find that “repetitive”.

      Did you see the leaked episode? Because you’re assuming that’s what’s going to happen.

      Based on what we’ve seen in the trailers (a female hand on a flaming torch, Drogon flying over a marching horde of Dothrak), it seems like that Dany is the one who pushes the flame over herself and sets the tent on fire then emerges unburnt. This show of strength (see? I can’t be burnt!) will win her the respect of the Dothrak.

        Quote  Reply

    121. WildlingKing:
      Izatty,

      On those earlier near misses you are talking about it was necessary for the story that the Starks didn’t reunite (Bran needed to keep going to the 3ER, Arya’s destiny was at Braavos not with Sansa, and well at Twins she was just a little too late… which is actually a good thing). This time there is no reason why Jon and Sansa couldn’t reunite, Bastard Bowl will be both of their storyline for the rest of the season.

      I hope you are right! but its also possible that sansa and jon don’t actually see each other until the bastardbowl itself- which going by pattern of previous seasons is likely E9. But, i still hope you are right.

        Quote  Reply

    122. dragonbringer,

      I actually liked all those scenes.
      Her running from her dragons = loosing control.
      And her dynamic with Hizdhar was fine as well. I didn’t mind Dany using fear tactics… She had just lost her best knight (Barristan), and it was a moment where she was done playing games with the slavers (who she does, even in the books, have a very “black washed” view of).
      Its more or less the lack of coloring in her gentle sides that I took issue with
      and its really only VERY pronounced in season 2.

      Josh L,

      Maybe she will first just gain respect of the Dothraki, and only later own, when Drogon appears, unite them under her as their leader.

        Quote  Reply

    123. HelloThere,

      I thought she had much more scenes where she showed her soft side last season.

      The Selmy scene, the Daario scene, even the Tyrion scene, she sounds very relieved when Tyrion accepts to advise her.

      Also loved her scenes with Jorah. She barely hold herself from crying, and that look when she sees him in the pit for the first time…

        Quote  Reply

    124. Josh L: Did you see the leaked episode?Because you’re assuming that’s what’s going to happen.

      Based on what we’ve seen in the trailers (a female hand on a flaming torch, Drogon flying over a marching horde of Dothrak), it seems like that Dany is the one who pushes the flame over herself and sets the tent on fire then emerges unburnt.This show of strength (see? I can’t be burnt!) will win her the respect of the Dothrak.

      I think filming spoilers suggest otherwise.

        Quote  Reply

    125. dragonbringer,

      I disagree. She’s trying to assert her authority by claiming to have power, rather than by asserting her power directly. The point Tywin was trying to make is that a true leader leads by doing, not by saying. If Dany wants them to think she’s a big to-do, she needs to show them her power (e.g., command her dragons to protect her), not tell them. Hopefully this Sunday she will do that.

        Quote  Reply

    126. Mihnea:
      Jack Bauer 24,

      http://watchersonthewall.com/staz-nair-joins-the-cast-of-game-of-thrones-and-new-major-spoilers-from-almeria/

      “Daniel Sackheim is directing these scenes, placing them into episodes 3 and/or 4 of season six. L7R mentions one person saw slates for episode 6, as well, but that’s not confirmed.

      The photo above? That’s a Dothraki temple that’s been burnt, and as you might guess, it was Drogon doing the burning. The Dothraki will be impressed by Drogon’s firepower.

      Edit: A possibility, though it sounds as though the witnesses are unclear on this: Dany may have been in the fire, and come out unscathed, which causes the Dothraki to adore her.”

      I just saw the edit there, so it sounds like either possibility could be true. I also just noticed that one person saw slates for episode 6 as well, so some of this could be in “Blood of My Blood”.

      I’m beginning to think maybe Drogon isn’t there and Dany does set fire to it herself, or maybe Drogon sets fire to it with her in it and she walks out unscathed.

        Quote  Reply

    127. RG,

      Jon already knows about Bran because Sam told him. We see this in S04E04. it isn’t clear however if Sam says anything about Rickon, because it isn’t clear if Rickon was discussed when Sam and Bran met. If it was it would have been off-screen. So in any case, Jon is aware that Bran lives and is beyond the Wall, and what he knows about Rickon isn’t clear.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Jack Bauer 24,

      Excellent. I had wondered if the poster might feature the Tower of Joy, but I’m glad it went to Alliser. Love the look of the dagger-shaped spikes on the noose and the crow forming out of the clouds in the background.

        Quote  Reply

    129. HelloThere,

      http:// watchersonthewall.com/behind-the-scenes-of-game-of-thrones-season-6-filming-in-spain/ /behind-the-scenes-of-game-of-thrones-season-6-filming-in-spain/

      Here you go .

      Mihnea,

      Oh I have no problem with hizdar being a good guy but if you are going to present him as a good guy then it should not come at the expense of dany’s character who is the main character there
      Those comparisons did existed and still exist is believe ..

      Why I don’t like The running from dragons scene is because the only person those dragons behave and listen to is to her and they miss her ..
      And even though she is afraid she keeps her strength and faces them when others like quentyn afraid and wants to leavethe place .

        Quote  Reply

    130. dragonbringer,

      As I said. I thought it was a good scene, because it shows Dany fumbling around, her indecisiveness, her feeling lost and enstranged from her dragons, witch mean everything to her, her past, her strenght, her future.
      Then you have the last scene, where she goes directly to Drogon and has no fear, no doubts as what she needs to do…etc.

      I didn’t thought Hizdhar’s character hurt Dany in any way.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Has anyone noticed that Sansa & Brienne are NOT arriving at Castle Black in the first shot of the preview? If that was Castle Black’s gate, the Wall should be visible on the right, which it’s not. So no Jon/Sansa reunion just yet :/

      So, where could they be going? Do they lose track and accidently end up at Eastwatch or the Shadowtower? Last Hearth (please no)? Some other northern castle?

        Quote  Reply

    132. Connor: I’m sure we will get it lol

      The only thing that could make this a better visual would be Ghost perking up and getting worked up or running towards the Castle Black doors before anyone even knows Sansa and Co. are there. Would be sooooo cool to have him make that Stark connection ahead of her entry!

        Quote  Reply

    133. Jack Bauer 24:

      The spanish site which leaked the info only said they were sure

      there was a big fire, the tent was burned and Dany showed up unschated and that would make the dothraki adore her. Drogon being there was an assumption, they mentioned that

      .

      So we’ll have to wait and see how stuff will actually happen.

        Quote  Reply

    134. dragonmcmx,

      Where else would they go? Last Hearth to be handed back to the Boltons? Eastwatch or Shadowtower makes no sense. They said Castle Black so that’s where all of three of them should be. Jon needs motivation which will Sansa provide. Come on, we deserve a good Stark reunion. No more like Bran/Jon /Rickon, Bran/Jon or Sansa/Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Mihnea,

      But the wall is a bit curved, you should really be able to see it behind Sansa and Brienne: Just look at this shot of the gate from Season 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebyb43-Yi8s&t=5m14s

      Besides, there is some sort of large rock on the left of the shot of Sansa and Brienne arriving at a gate, that same rock is not there in the scene I posted above.

      Either that’s a really terrible consistency error, or that’s not Castle Black.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Warden of the Northwest,

      You see thats what she does when she is around her army and men..

      A true leader is who she is who prayed for strength and wanted to show no weaknesses so the khalasar can cross the red waste .she cared for those who were ill.
      She stood by those who died and paid respect and she lead them out of the waste ..

      She lead the khalasar to the plazza in astopor and not ordered the khalasars and unsullied to kill the masters but she gave the first blow to kraznys a slap with his own whip..

      Yunkai and meereen as all been her leading and planning all by herself.

      When she sees people attacking drogon she didn’t wait for anyone or gave orders to anyone to save him but she jumped herself in the pit ..

      So she has always been leading and put herself in the front when she was a leader leading people and not a prisoner

      The situations are completely different in that dany is being held as an captive and as an prisoner by dothraki ..

      So yeah that comparison with joffery is again ridiculous particularly when you compare what they both think kingship and queenship means ..

        Quote  Reply

    137. Mihnea,

      Its good if those were the only scenes we got in the season but remember we had dragon feeding scene in middle of season .
      Don’t get me wrong all the dragon scenes were good if you take them as alone but as a season ..they don’t have same effect on me
      Anyways let’s just agree to disagree here shall we

      Glad you didn’t have a problem with hizdar

        Quote  Reply

    138. Mihnea: I knew it would be Thorne!

      Actually it was all four of them (with Thorne getting the quote). You can see the outline of four crows in that painting.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Jared: Excellent. I had wondered if the poster might feature the Tower of Joy, but I’m glad it went to Alliser. Love the look of the dagger-shaped spikes on the noose and the crow forming out of the clouds in the background.

      Daggers … or Thorns? (For Thorne). I just realized the connection.

        Quote  Reply

    140. dragonmcmx,

      I’m 99.999% confident that Jon and Sansa will reunite this episode. Why else would Sansa send Brienne away in episode 5? The only person she would trust is Jon. And Brienne would have found her and brought her some place safe, thus fulfilling her oath to Jaime.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Jack Bauer 24: I think at this point in the story we need to stop worrying about how/when characters are getting to locations. They arr trimming the fat now and there’s approximately 13 episodes left after this season.

      Yes! Let’s all make a deal to stop worrying about that kind of stuff. And maybe on Sunday, instead of there being the cycle of “I loved/hated that episode,” “you are dumb for loving/hating that episode!” “You are dumb for not loving/hating that episode” we can actually spend that energy talking about the content of the episode! 🙂

      Tyrion Pimpslap: I am only a young girl and know little in the ways of war

      I was just going to say that Dany repeating her titles is a replacement for that “I am only a young girl…” phrase she repeated throughout the books. As far as I remember, Margaery is the only one in the show who has said something akin to that line, and thank god for that. It wouldn’t come off very well in the show. For the show, it’s better for Dany to be strong and in your face rather than coy and manipulative.

        Quote  Reply

    142. The spanish guy known as Frikidoctor won’t release any spoilers for the rest of the season, this is a huge relief. Good job HBO.

        Quote  Reply

    143. I am the Storm,

      No, it’s obvious that time passes differently in each storyline between episodes. It has from the very beginning. In the very first episode Jaime and Cersei are in Kings Landing at the start and Winterfell towards the end. During the course of a single episode! Catelyn travels from Winterfell to Kings Landing over the course of 1-2 episodes. It’s season 6 and people need to get over characters traveling long distances over the course of an episode or 2.

        Quote  Reply

    144. Jon and Sansa will be ships passing in the night and not meet.

      I wish people would stop making Theon cry for once! Are we sure Sansa didn’t warm him? 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    145. Josh L,

      Either one works, I think. 🙂

      WildlingKing,

      Good catch! The level of intricate detail that Robert Ball builds into these posters really is amazing. Look at one of them for long enough, you’ll almost always see something new that didn’t quite register at first glance.

        Quote  Reply

    146. Is it nitpicking to be bothered by the fact that Jorah and Daario appear to be fighting Dothraki in Vaes Dothrak, even though the Dothraki are forbidden from spilling blood in their holy city (which is why Viserys was killed with molten gold).

      It ain’t a big deal tbh, lol

        Quote  Reply

    147. I’m really not good with maps but looking at a map of the North, aren’t Theon, Sansa, and Brienne in the Wolfswoods? If they are, wouldn’t it be possible that Theon simply traveled through the woods until he reached Sea Dragon Point and boarded a merchant ship to the Iron Islands?

      I see a few issues with this, the first being that the Iron Islands are in rebellion and I’m not sure they would be receiving any merchant ships from Westeros, especially from the North which they just attacked. The other being that I would suspect the Northern population would be suspicious of any person looking to sail to the Iron Islands, and that it’s likely that they would know from Ramsay that Theon escaped from Winterfell and was on the loose.

      I could be totally wrong about all of this though.

        Quote  Reply

    148. HelloThere,

      Dothraki can’t spill blood in Vaes Dothrak, but there’s no law against killing people. I’m sure that’s the spirit of the law, but as you note, that didn’t stop Drogo when Viserys crossed the point of no return. There’s more than a few ways for them to do that without shedding blood or bearing steel. I can’t tell if the warriors who Jorah and Daario are fighting in the promo have weapons, but if they encounter two intruders in their sacred city, they’re going to attack, even if they have to use their fists against the invaders’ swords.

        Quote  Reply

    149. HelloThere,

      True, didn’t even think about that. And that rule seems to be pretty strict and holy indeed since Viserys trusted he could use it to his advantage, Drogo just found a way of killing him without spilling blood. Then again, that rule supposedly exists to keep the peace between the different khalasars in Vaes Dothrak, whereas Jorah and Daario are just intruders.

        Quote  Reply

    150. Pigeon:
      Jon and Sansa will be ships passing in the night and not meet.

      I wish people would stop making Theon cry for once! Are we sure Sansa didn’t warm him?

      *warg him, rather. They both looked none too warm

        Quote  Reply

    151. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      True, but again, the Dothraki aren’t just going to let Jorah and Daario walk into Vaes Dothrak unmolested. If they see them, they’re going to try and subdue them, even unarmed. Obviously they could subdue them without blood if they have enough men, but we don’t know the context of this fight. Maybe Jorah and Daario are the attackers, killing some Dothraki who spotted them specifically so they can’t raise the alarm. Unfortunately, the promo is too dark and too rapidly cut for me to be able to discern exactly what’s happening. We’ll have to wait for the episode itself.

        Quote  Reply

    152. WildlingKing,

      It holds true for anyone, considering Viserys was just an outsider.
      But whatever I guess, lol.

      I doubt if the Dothraki (even in the books), were attacked, they’d stand down without fighting.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Wimsey,

      I meant me … I hope we get a Stark reunion worth crying for … I don’t think Sansa will avoid crying but maybe Jon will hold the tears as usual.

        Quote  Reply

    154. lpR7: This is essentially what we’re about to see happen this Sunday. […] Drogon swoops in, burns everything, saves Dany.

      I honestly have NO idea why people insist that Drogon will be come and create a flaming inferno in the Khalar Vezhven episode (besides wishful thinking). The trailer scenes with the dragon flying over a horde of Dothraki are very clearly NOT in this context:

      – The Dothraki on the ground are a large group of riding warriors only (no people on foot, no women).
      – The dragon flies in the same direction the Dothraki are moving.
      – None of the Dothraki react with astonishment, fear or terror as should be expected when seeing an unknown dragon-type beast approaching.
      The landscape behind the Dothraki riders is VERY similar to the one in the trailer scenes with the attacking Dothraki AND the sons of the harpy killing people.

      Here are the pictures from the trailers: IMAGE

      So the most probable context is that we see a common Dothraki-Dragon attack on Meereen. There is ZERO hint that the dragon from the trailer has anything to do with Vaes Dothrak or the gathering of Khals.

      What we KNOW will happen there is that Dany will stand in front of the Khals; she will touch the glowing brazier with her bare hands; and at some time (maybe right then) the temple will burn down.

      So be patient – Drogon WILL come back some time, but he will not save the Khaleesi at the Khalar Vezhven; she’ll do that all by herself.

        Quote  Reply

    155. Green Chili,

      People think that because

      a while ago there were reports (as well as a video) of a scene shot in which the big dothraki hut burned down at nighttime (clearly not the same scene as the shadow scene in the trailer). A behind the scenes video further suggests this.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Green Chili: I honestly have NO idea why people insist that Drogon will be come and create a flaming inferno in the Khalar Vezhven episode (besides wishful thinking). The trailer scenes with the dragon flying over a horde of Dothraki are very clearly NOT in this context:

      – The Dothraki on the ground are a large group of riding warriors only (no people on foot, no women).
      – The dragon flies in the same direction the Dothraki are moving.
      – None of the Dothraki react with astonishment, fear or terror as should be expected when seeing an unknown dragon-type beast approaching.
      The landscape behind the Dothraki riders is VERY similar to the one in the trailer scenes with the attacking Dothraki AND the sons of the harpy killing people.

      Here are the pictures from the trailers: IMAGE

      So the most probable context is that we see a common Dothraki-Dragon attack on Meereen. There is ZERO hint that the dragon from the trailer has anything to do with Vaes Dothrak or the gathering of Khals.

      What we KNOW will happenthere is that Dany will stand in front of the Khals; she will touch the glowing brazier with her bare hands; and at some time (maybe right then) the temple will burn down.

      So be patient – Drogon WILL come back some time, but he will not save the Khaleesi at the Khalar Vezhven; she’ll do that all by herself.

      I don’t think people are saying Drogon will save Dany because of the image from the trailer.

      Set leak

      Apparently when the scene was filmed, they used flamethrowers, which is the same thing they used for Drogon in previous scenes. I agree with you that the scene in the trailer is probably from later in the season, in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if Dany is riding Drogon there. But that still doesn’t confirm that Drogon won’t save Dany in episode 4.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Tbh, as long as the scene is awesome, it doesn’t matter, lol
      Danys got 6 more episodes of shit to do, so maybe its just best if Drogon comes, gets us through this shit quick, and then we move on, lol

        Quote  Reply

    158. dragonbringer:

      Yunkai and meereen as all been her leading and planning all by herself.

      You say that like it’s an accomplishment. Yunkai and Meereen and all of slaver’s bay are a big fat mess, thanks to Dany’s poor leadership skills. Sure, she’s pretty and cool and has great intentions and is trying to do the right thing, but she (thus far) has been a big failure. That, in my opinion, is the major theme of her story arc so far.. that she has a lot of advantages (royal blood, magical dragon-mama skillz, beauty, etc.) and tries to do what she thinks is right with them but doesn’t really understand what she’s doing enough to be successful. So yes, I disagree with you on whether or not Dany is an effective leader, and not just a list of titles who (thus far) hasn’t shown much lasting success in using her power.

        Quote  Reply

    159. HelloThere:
      Tbh, as long as the scene is awesome, it doesn’t matter, lol
      Danys got 6 more episodes of shit to do, so maybe its just best if Drogon comes, gets us through this shit quick, and then we move on, lol

      Yes. If they waste too much time having her a “prisoner,” or in general, just hanging out at Vaes Dothrak that’s going to be rather dull. We’ve see her do that quite enough. It’s time to get things moving. D&D must be just as frustrated by the knot as most readers so you wouldn’t think they’d want to tie it too tight in the show as well.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Laura: Yes! Let’s all make a deal to stop worrying about that kind of stuff. And maybe on Sunday, instead of there being the cycle of “I loved/hated that episode,” “you are dumb for loving/hating that episode!” “You are dumb for not loving/hating that episode” we can actually spend that energy talking about the content of the episode!

      I was just going to say that Dany repeating her titles is a replacement for that “I am only a young girl…” phrase she repeated throughout the books. As far as I remember, Margaery is the only one in the show who has said something akin to that line, and thank god for that. It wouldn’t come off very well in the show. For the show, it’s better for Dany to be strong and in your face rather than coy and manipulative.

      I am so with you on that one. I’ve read the books, I’ve watched all the seasons and I am enjoying GOT on HBO for the sake a wonderful story. I must say I liked the books, but in all honesty there were so many characters and subplots that it could get confusing at times. I can’t wait for this episode on Sunday. Lions and Tigers and Bears…no wait, it’s Dragons and Direwolves and Dwarfs…lol. I appreciate what you said and am sending you a high five!

        Quote  Reply

    161. One question confusing me…and possibly a plothole even…is that at the end of S5 when the Dothraki surrounded Dany how could they not have noticed Drogon?

      Dany hadnt gone too far from him and Drogon was obviously resting there…with him refusing to fly Dany anywhere and all…

      Has this been addressed?? Am I missing something blatant??

        Quote  Reply

    162. Ned’s Direwolf,

      Drogon dropped Dany off at the top of a cliff, then settled down to rest there. Dany made her way down to the base of the cliff on her own (the episode doesn’t show us how she descended, but notice how the camera pans down the rock face around the 2:00 mark). That’s where the Dothraki took her. Drogon was still at the top of the cliff, high enough to escape their notice.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Remeber in the trailer, the first one I think, it showed a delicate hand resting on the rim of a fire brazier. Most of us thought it was Melisandre, but with further investigation, we found out that the brazier exactly matches those in the temple of the dosh khaleen.

      Judging from this info, I would say Dany starts the fire herself.

      Not ruling out a Drogon sighting either, though. I think he will show up in this episode, but I am not entirely sure how. Maybe he sees the fire? Going to be very interesting.

        Quote  Reply

    164. keltia:
      Pigeon,

      Glad to get the correction.Thought you might have been shipping “Thansa” with that “warm” reference.

      Thansa would be perfect if one of them had a lisp!

        Quote  Reply

    165. My guess is Dany lights the hut on fire not to prove she’s fireproof, but rather to attract Drogon to the flames. He’s fire made flesh after all. He will then land right beside her to the astonishment of all. She will not be in the flames.

      On another topic, if LF doesn’t wonder why, question or show that he now knows why Sansa “fled” Winterfell, that will seem a bit off.

      And I’m thinking poor Theon is soon to be crabby patties, what with Yara and Euron both looking to rule. He’s in both their ways.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Seriously! Not sure what the current end game plan is, but based on previous book drafts, Danny does end up in Westeros. (For a while I thought Danny would die before she reaches her destination. UGH). So like you and othes have expressed, this season must end with her heading to or arriving in Westeros. Side note: Wouldnt be shocked if they end up in Dorne, given that the Sand Snakes have taken over and are very much anti Lanister/pro women leaders.

        Quote  Reply

    167. Wanderer: Side note: Wouldnt be shocked if they end up in Dorne, given that the Sand Snakes have taken over and are very much anti Lanister/pro women leaders.

      I would not be shocked if the Sand Snakes end up in Meereen seeking Daeny’s support.

      BiscottiKnight: Her clothes and her hair burn off, but she otherwise unhurt.

      Daeny does not run through his fires: she ducks under them. And she was burned, not by the fires, but the heat of his body: she still had burn blisters on her hands and legs some time later.

      That written, other people probably would have been much more badly burned than Daeny was. However, “less badly burned” is quite different from “unburned.”

        Quote  Reply

    168. Warden of the Northwest,

      Good job picking out that one bit and completely ignoring everything else I said.

      The whole post of mine was a response to you about your complain that she doesn’t lead from the head but only speaks and your comparison with joffery and how he says iam the king but doesn’t lead .

      The key words in your comment
      Are thus far ( the arc is still not ended) and has good intentions ans tries to do good ( hence its completely ridiculous comparison to joffery ) ..

      You say like the current situation is how the series as ended and the last we have seen of dany ..
      We are in the middle of the plot there is still going to be an ending for the slavers bay arc .

      The whole point about your comparison was she doesn’t do anything but recite her titles ..but right now a city of freed men and unsullied and pit fighters all fight in her name even though she is not there .
      Why don’t you wait until we get that before writing it of as a total failure ..

        Quote  Reply

    169. Plz

      No more Dorne…
      I don’t want any more Dorne at all ever on the show… just one shot of Cersei burning it down with wildfire
      nothing else…

        Quote  Reply

    170. HelloThere: I don’t want any more Dorne at all ever on the show… just one shot of Cersei burning it down with wildfire
      nothing else…

      I suspect that we’ll get a little bit more of them, but possibly only as supporter’s of Daeny’s restoration. It certainly would make sense for them to support Daeny now that they have basically declared war on the Lannisters.

      But I agree with you. TV!Dorne was not as god-awful as Book!Dorne, but that does not mean that it was good!

      (If a Time Traveler every gave me 196 wishes, then wish #185 would be to go back in time and alter the “editing” of GRRM’s manuscripts so that all of those chapters were gone…..)

        Quote  Reply

    171. Wimsey,

      Book Dorne is boring and often times superfluous… but plz… no…

      TV Dorne is a cesspool of horrid writing, acting and nonsense plot …
      Ellaria Sand somehow having the power to overthrow the entire Martell empire (despite having no army, no family name, nothing), is almost like having Shae kill Joffrey infront of the entire kingsguard and situating herself as queen… it makes my brain hurt…

      (and this is coming from a devout show defender).

      for the shows sake, every other damn scene and storyline is the best of the best in terms of writing, acting, drama… everything… i don’t consider Dorne to even be a part of the show anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    172. Wimsey,

      Haha I was thinking the same thing when I was a new movie here in India titled 24 which is based on time traveling.

      I don’t think dorne will be allying with dany…by the end of this season they will either be destroyed by lannister tyrell forces or they will defeat tyrells and march towards KL …where cersei will defeat them and burn down the city

      Or tyrells will be making alliance with dorne and try to take out cersei .

        Quote  Reply

    173. The more furiously people argue about Dany, the more my eyes glaze over. I just hope that all her scenes are short henceforward.

        Quote  Reply

    174. Clob: Yes.If they waste too much time having her a “prisoner,” or in general, just hanging out at Vaes Dothrak that’s going to be rather dull.We’ve see her do that quite enough.It’s time to get things moving.D&D must be just as frustrated by the knot as most readers so you wouldn’t think they’d want to tie it too tight in the show as well.

      6.04 “Stuff happens in Vaes Dothrak” Drogon shows up, Jaario shows up, Danny doesn’t burn, etc.
      6.05 We skip Danny here. Jon-heavy episode. Bran sees the rest of the TOJ flashback. Mel says some prophetic stuff and Davos makes a face…
      6.06 (blood of my blood) Dany & Drogon proclaimed The Stallion that will Mount the World. She’s made leader of all the khalasars, Khaleesi of the Dothraki Nation.
      6.07 Traveling with the khalasars to Meereen.
      6.08 Reunites with Tyrion, attack plans, dragons, etc. Maybe meets Yara and/or Theon here?
      6.09 We skip Danny here. Winterfell battle episode.
      6.10 Show version “Battle of Fire”. Dothraki run amok, dragons run amok. Essos arc finally ends. Danny, Tyrion and company board the Greyjoy ships, dragons circle overhead, ships sail to Westeros.

        Quote  Reply

    175. George,

      About 6.05 being jon heavy lol as if the other episodes are not ..didn’t he get around 9 mins of screentime last episode..

      I think you are wrong in your assumption that dany will be only in 7 epiosdes ..i believe they are going to give her 8 epiodes like always with 3 mins of screentime ..maybe they can just cut her out like all those detractors are calling .

      Remember start of season 4 how people complained about wall then look at now …why it is changed now beacause they spend time on the characters there and develop their characters

      Reading your 6.10 summary does make me laugh and dread at the same time …all of that will be resolved in 6 to 7 mins because thank God peter dinklage is there otherwise it would be over in 3 to 4 mins.

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    176. George,

      Having said that I hope we will be seeing more of dany in next episode… I am praying she gets around 7 to 8 mins atleast..

      And dany can still appear in episode 5 however heavy jon stuff is because this episode will end with a cliffhanger on dany I expect it to start with her in next one.. And an episode titled Door and dany not being present will be a mistake …after all no one is been more involved with the door than dany( maybe hodor) …iam not talking about the house with red door alone but also the doors in HOTU and the door she is trying to find in an dark stone room and running towards that door in her dreams ..

      About Mel saying some prophetic stuff and davos making a face in 6,05 ..I hope this happens . want to see the reactions around here

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    177. HelloThere: Ellaria Sand somehow having the power to overthrow the entire Martell empire (despite having no army, no family name, nothing), is almost like having Shae kill Joffrey infront of the entire kingsguard and situating herself as queen… it makes my brain hurt…

      But Ellaria did not need an army: she needs only something Doran completely lacks, i.e., awareness of public opinion. And it is the same as having Shae kill Joffery if Shae knows that the Kingsguard and all of the court have lost all loyalty to Joffery and want anyone else in charge. That is a big “if” that was not the case: for all of Joffery’s foolishness, he had not made Westeros or House Lannister look weak or allowed it to suffer continuous insults without retribution; on the contrary, despite Joffery’s best efforts, they had won the war.

      Indeed, something one should ask of the books: why was there no coup in Dorne? Humans are not blindly loyal: loyalty has to be first earned, and then it has to be maintained. Doran assumes that his people would be blindly loyal: but people never are.

      (I do see a disturbing tendency for people to consider blind loyalty to be a virtue: and it is anything but that!)

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    178. dragonbringer,

      Dany is all alone. That is key. Just when Tyrion and Varys arrive she flies away and is now stuck with characters the audience doesn’t really care about. Tyrion and Varys are suffering the same problem. I don’t think any amount of time would change that. Meanwhile, Jon is merged with the Dragonstone crew and looks to be merging with Sansa and the Winterfell storyline. Not to mention he is on the front line, so to speak, for the battle with the WW. That is why he is receiving more screen time. Jon also had significantly more POV chapters than Dany in the books. So this should be no surprise. Dany will get more screen time when she gets her butt to Westeros.

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    179. Direwolf Lvr:

      And I’m thinking poor Theon is soon to be crabby patties, what with Yara and Euron both looking to rule. He’s in both their ways.

      I read in one of Alfie’s interview that Theon’s goal right now is to try helps his sister to rule iron island. So, from this statement, i believe Yara and Theon are in the good term, at some level.

      He didn’t mention further than that though. I still believe he’ll be killed by Euron, as sad as it will.

        Quote  Reply

    180. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Which seems like only around 13 episodes then

      What happened when barristan joined dany ..is barristan anyways less important than say Davos .
      Season 4 was especially devoid of any human scenes other than chaining the dragons..season 4 and 2 would have been great way to develop her and show us insights to her character ..

      I think you are over estimating the role of dragonstone crew at the wall …its evident from Two swords that the dynamic is changing from kl to wall and Jon is getting more and more important than the previous 3 seasons..

      If you look back at the last couple of seasons it had various scenes focusing on Jon alone and developing his character…
      That’s my main complaint towards dany instead of fleshing out her character they chose to flesh out other character like hizdar and jorah and made dany as a monotonous and regal

      Iam not at all compliaining about wall getting more screen time or jon for that matter …iam using it as an example of how the opinions have been changed by investing time there ..I have always liked kit and i also expressed many times how happy iam to see him perform and deliver and shutting those criticisms..

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    181. taim:
      I am kind of tired of Dany always getting saved by Drogon, its getting repetitive…

      Getting Repetitive ??? From what I remember, it only happened that one time in S5E9 ‘Dance of Dragons’ in the Meereen fighting arena when Drogon dropped in to save her 😉

      I wouldn’t say when Dany handed Drogon to Kraznys (the Astapor slave master) in exchange for the Unsullied army that the dragon saved her that time? It was him giving her his masters whip in exchange for Drogon when she knew she had control of the Unsullied. Kraznys then pissed Dany off with more of his crude comments, so that was a ‘Dracaris’ moment and Kraznys got toasted! Up to that point, her dragons had been pretty docile and too small to be used as WMD 🙂

      Ok, they did get into a bit of trouble for eating livestock and once a child which gave Dany no choice but to lock up Rhaegal and Viserion in the catacombs. The ones that Tyrion has just unchained, but as for Drogon, he’s just been boogieing around the skies of Essos looking for goats to barbecue and munch away on – ‘cos Essos is a bit light on fast food joints like McDonalds, Burger King and KFC LOL 😀

      Perhaps it will become repetitive when Rhaegal and Viserion get their riders with Dany back on Drogon, but when then happens it will be great cinematography and well worth watching all the same.

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    182. The Blood of Winterfull: In the show they make Dany connect with him by her brain, there’s no another explain for why she closed her eyes the way she did
      That scene was the stupidest scene in the show

      Not at all… What that showed was that Dany has a psychic connection with Drogon which brought him to her in her moment of need. Not much different from Bran warging into his direwolf or Orell into his eagle.

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    183. dragonbringer: Dany irritated with the khals and their mockery decides to show them who she is and ends up setting fire to the temple ..

      The khals run outside leaving dany to be burnt ..in the meanwhile the khalasars gather around the temple and watching the fire burn down the hut ..

      And amidst smokes and ashes daenerys will remain unburnt and dothraki go down on their knees ..
      And thus we close the episode .

      I also think something close to this will happen. In any case, if Daenerys’ story does not move forward this episode, I am going to scream! 😀 I am beyond frustrated at how she’s been treading water since last season. I also hope Drogon arrives at the very, very end of this episode after the temple has burnt, or in the next episode.

      Overall, Episode 3 fell short overall in my opinion, and I want this one to be big! And not Drogon-ex-machina big.

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    184. It’s weird. It’s like some people don’t want Dany to use Drogon to her advantage. If he rescues her for the millionth time, who cares? She has rescued him too. How many times did the direwolves help out the Starks? Many many times.

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    185. dragonbringer,

      Barristan was just one tertiary character. Stannis,Davos, and Mel are main secondary characters and they are involved in the wars of the Seven Kingdoms. Dany’s biggest drawback is and always has been her isolation from the events happening in Westeros. Meereen was not popular in the books or the show. I prefer the Dothraki to the Meereenese, but I’d much prefer that she was trying to rally support in Westeros and preparing to square off with the Lannisters. But it seems that will have to wait. I just hope she doesn’t wait until the Others have already invaded before reaching Westeros. I want to see her fight to take the throne before that happens.

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    186. RG,
      “When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives”

      Is that a quote from the books? I don’t like what I think it foreshadows 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    187. Dee,

      Lol same. This thread is very boring with all the Dany talk making my eyes glaze over haha. Sorry for those who like her but I aint feelin’ the dragon queen story line. Jansa all I care about right now.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Sean C.:
      Where exactly did Theon find a ship to take him to the Iron Islands?

      At last, the debates around whether Sansa and Brienne will go to Castle Black and meet Jon will end just two short days from now.

      Isn’t it obvious?

      1: Each of the Sand Snakes possesses both Boots of Water Walking and a Ring of Invisibility. However, if you paid attention in S6E01, they currently only need two of each, so….

      2: Since Tarth is kinda close to Dorne, they must have lent the extras to Brienne, which is how she keeps warping through the Bolton army unseen, despite being uber-eye-catching with her ring off

      3: She is now free to loan those extra boots to Theon!

      Three plot holes filled in one fell swoop! I am certainly on my game today.

        Quote  Reply

    189. Wimsey: But Ellaria did not need an army: she needs only something Doran completely lacks, i.e., awareness of public opinion.And it is the same as having Shae kill Joffery if Shae knows that the Kingsguard and all of the court have lost all loyalty to Joffery and want anyone else in charge.That is a big “if” that was not the case: for all of Joffery’s foolishness, he had not made Westeros or House Lannister look weak or allowed it to suffer continuous insults without retribution; on the contrary, despite Joffery’s best efforts, they had won the war.

      Indeed, something one should ask of the books: why was there no coup in Dorne?Humans are not blindly loyal: loyalty has to be first earned, and then it has to be maintained. Doran assumes that his people would be blindly loyal: but people never are.

      (I do see a disturbing tendency for people to consider blind loyalty to be a virtue: and it is anything but that!)

      You mean “awareness of writer-asserted public opinion”. It’s hard to figure out why the average Dornishman on the street would give two hoots…and certainly not such an ironclad, gigantic majority that the Sand Snakes could not only engage dozens of people in a conspiracy without getting caught*, but not expect retaliation for their kinslaying (which prior to this season, everyone was saying was a Gigantic, Unforgivable Deal, even if done for noble reasons, but now seems to be something everyone just ignores despite being done for the worst reasons).

      * The odds of a conspiracy working go down exponentially with the number of conspirators involved. All Doran’s personal guards minus one plus two ships full of people (the pursuing ship the Sand Snakes road, plus Trystane/Jaime’s)? Good luck pulling that off. One rat and you are sunk.

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    190. I’m predicting ….
      that ..
      1) we will we start with theon on a ship to iron islands …..
      He will then appear in front of yara …and theon will breakdown …but yara will be angry / upset . ..she will ask theon if it is really him or is he Ramsey ‘ s dog sent with some sorta scheme …..etc etc. ..and she will ask him prove himself ..While she gets ready for you know what …

      2) we then go to Vale where littlefinger is doing littlefinger things…….The conversation ends with sansa …

      3) we go the wall where Jon is sitting alone ,,away from everyone …He has lots of questions and doubts …so Davos joins him they plan their next move ….While ….brothers at the night’s watch gather to select their new Lord commander and Jon is asked to join….edd is selected and Jon reveals his plan ….wildlings are outside …when the gates open and sansa with brienne comes in …tormund falls in love with brienne while Jon and sansa will make us all cry …

      4) we will visit meereen where tyrion and group are informed of some damaged caused by the harpys and decide enough is enough tyrion needs to talk to some masters …

      5) kingslanding where high sparrow manipulates queen marg ..and she decides it’s time to confess ….
      6) still In kingslanding where Jamie convinces cersei that Tyrells maybe the problem but they need to deal with sparrows first and they might need Tyrells for that ….so cersei agrees with ollena ….and they decide it’s time sparrows must be chopped into small pieces …

      7) Ramsey is playing his games with the little man ….

      8) Jon and sansa talk ….They talk about Rickon and bran ….and arya ….meanwhile Davos and Mel are talking to brienne about stannis ……
      The conversation ends with Jon and sansa asking brienne to help find arya …..it will be cool if Mel remembered arya too. …and Mel would leave Castle Black for her own mission while brienne and pod leave to find arya ….

      9) tyrion talks to the masters and strikes a deal …
      10) before you read ……CLOSE YOUR EYES ……PLAY MISSION IMPOSSIBLE MUSIC ……OPEN YOUR EYES …….AND NOW READ THIS….While still playing that music…In the background …

      dario ….and jorah look are looking at..from a hill….
      dario the sidekick : ah damn too much security we can’t break in to it….
      jorah hunt : don’t worry you see …there is a secret entrance. .is will break in through there while you take this route ….
      jorah hunt moving through the cave …dario sidekick through alt way ….jorah fighting ….The unnamed drothraki dudes ….jorah gets captured .so does dario…

      11) dany is chilling with her new sistas. ….when they say it’s time ……dany tries to convince the dothrakis to fight for her …..but they laugh at her face ….Some drothraki dudes bring jorah and dario ….and expose their plan….While drothraki …are busy ….deciding what punishment they deserve ……..Some drothraki dude shouts IT’S A BIRD….IT’S A PLANE ….
      no dammit…its drogon ….and drogon is breathing fire ..and drothraki are like help us …..and dany is like fine whatever …and she steps outside drogon lands near her .and dothrakis are all on their knees ……just like end of season 1…..,,,

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    191. Wimsey: But Ellaria did not need an army: she needs only something Doran completely lacks, i.e., awareness of public opinion.
      Indeed, something one should ask of the books: why was there no coup in Dorne?

      I 100% agree to this. I was totally expecting a coup of the Dorne war faction, and though I find the sand snakes absolutely ridiculous from a writing and acting perspective, that development was not a surprise at all.

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    192. Kamali: Theon

      Merchants are always the greatest benefitters of war. And as long as there is no direct embargo or the ships are hold in one harbour by force, I see no reason why trade should have stopped.

        Quote  Reply

    193. lpR7,

      How about we wait and see what’s going to happen on Sunday before jumping to conclusions?
      You guys act as if it’s monday morning and we’ve seen it all.

        Quote  Reply

    194. lpR7: So in the span of 6 episodes Drogon comes swooping in twice, to save the day when all seems bleak for Dany. I could understand why some may find that “repetitive”.

      I won’t, if it happens. I was enchanted by the original scene with Dany in the white dress on Drogon’s back, the surge of uplifting music as she rose into the air, away from the bloodshed below, with Tyrion standing google-eyed as she flew away. I wouldn’t care one bit if Drogon flew in to show the Dothraki what’s what, in fact I’m kind of hoping for it. The CGI for those dragons is effing amazing; (and has improved for Ghost, as well.) I love seeing the dragons doing anything.

      It’s kind of like the old cowboy movies, where the hero whistles and his trusty horse comes running to spirit him away. It would be odd if it didn’t happen. And didn’t some of you guys say the Dorthraki would see Drogon as the Stallion who Mounts the World? There you go, trusty stallion Drogon.

      I don’t mind the current storyline, either. I kind of like old Kalessi Savo – she wasn’t mean to Dany, or put off by Dany’s display of pride, she just said what was what in a matter of fact way. She’s a tough old bird, and mabe she will become a big asset to Dany’s adventure.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Chad Brick: You mean “awareness of writer-asserted public opinion”. It’s hard to figure out why the average Dornishman on the street would give two hoots…and certainly not such an ironclad, gigantic majority that the Sand Snakes could not only engage dozens of people in a conspiracy without getting caught*, but not expect retaliation for their kinslaying (which prior to this season, everyone was saying was a Gigantic, Unforgivable Deal, even if done for noble reasons, but now seems to be something everyone just ignores despite being done for the worst reasons).

      * The odds of a conspiracy working go down exponentially with the number of conspirators involved. All Doran’s personal guards minus one plus two ships full of people (the pursuing ship the Sand Snakes road, plus Trystane/Jaime’s)? Good luck pulling that off. One rat and you are sunk.

      I didn’t mind the “conspiracy” so much; but there is no way that the major Houses in Dorne would let someone with the surname “Sand” rule; it just wouldn’t happen.

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    196. The Blood of Winterfull,

      The closing of the eyes had nothing to do with Drogon. The creators already explained that she was ready to die and was seeking a moment of peace before her death. The creators also said Drogon’s the one who felt that his mother was in great peril. These dragons are smart. “More intelligent than men according to some maesters.”

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    197. When I first watched episode 3, something about the High Sparrow’s behavior with Tommen didn’t sit quite right with me, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was exactly. Just finished watching it again, and I realized what it was. I originally thought the HS was genuine in his beliefs and not out for personal glory. A fanatic, without a doubt, but not a phony.

      I believe now that he is not the genuine religious man I thought he was. When he was talking with Jaime in the Sept last week, his lines to Jaime went something like: Go ahead, kill me. We all deserve to die. We are weak and vain and not worthy to live. Or something on that order. This week, in talking to Tommen, and obviously trying to get Tommen to his side, he says: There is so much good in people, we just have to find a way to bring it out in each other. What? One week humanity is worthless, and the next week humanity is so good but misguided? WTF?

      I thought it was very strange – plus that cocky look he gave to Jaime last week spells, to me, a man who has a secret agenda and is just loving having an army of snarling but obedient boys at his beck and call. Anybody else have a strange feeling about the HS?

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    198. ygritte:
      RG,
      “When the snows fall and the white winds blow, the lone wolf dies but the pack survives”

      Is that a quote from the books? I don’t like what I think it foreshadows

      Most people think this refers to Arya; being the “lone wolf” in the story.

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    199. I enjoyed reading all the comments but everyone seems to be missing one thing.

      If Dany burns down the Temple still inside there is a major problem with this. Her clothes would be burned off and there is the problem, Contract Issues. We have been lacking in the Boobie Quota this season and makes me wonder if HBO fired the guy in charge of it. But they definitely hired a new guy for that keeps track of the Death Quota.

        Quote  Reply

    200. Thronetender:
      When I first watched episode 3, something about the High Sparrow’s behavior with Tommen didn’t sit quite right with me, but I couldn’t put my finger on what it was exactly. Just finished watching it again, and I realized what it was. I originally thought the HS was genuine in his beliefs and not out for personal glory. A fanatic, without a doubt, but not a phony.

      I believe now that he is not the genuine religious man I thought he was.When he was talking with Jaime in the Sept last week, his lines to Jaime went something like: Go ahead, kill me. We all deserve to die. We are weak and vain and not worthy to live. Or something on that order.This week, in talking to Tommen, and obviously trying to get Tommen to his side, he says: There is so much good in people, we just have to find a way to bring it out in each other.What?One week humanity is worthless, and the next week humanity is so good but misguided?WTF?

      I thought it was very strange – plus that cocky look he gave to Jaime last week spells, to me, a man who has a secret agenda and is just loving having an army of snarling but obedient boys at his beck and call.Anybody else have a strange feeling about the HS?

      Type

      HR=HS

      into Google and have a field day. I doubt this is true on TV and wouldn’t give it better than a coin flip in the books, but if there is something deeper about the High Sparrow, that’s likely what it is. For the record, it is my favorite “out there” fan theory and I certainly hope it is correct, even if I have my doubts (especially in the TV version, which always trends towards Keep it Simple, Stupid).

        Quote  Reply

    201. George,

      Hmm could be, but I took it as JS cause he got the direwolf runt of the litter that was found by itself, and he could be considered “lone wolf” because he wasn’t a true Stark in the “pack”. Arya’s arc is one we have not been spoiled on whatsoever as far as I know. I have no idea where they’re going with her and it’s getting interesting. One way I could see it going is that she’ll become no one for real and is tasked with killing the LoL’s champion, the enemy of the many-faced god, her half brother Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    202. Mustangride:
      I enjoyed reading all the comments but everyone seems to be missing one thing.

      If Dany burns down the Temple still inside there is a major problem with this. Her clothes would be burned off and there is the problem, Contract Issues. We have been lacking in the Boobie Quota this season and makes me wonder if HBO fired the guy in charge of it. But they definitely hired a new guy for that keeps track of the Death Quota.

      They might use a body double, or perhaps Emilia will do nudity One Last Time…

      She did say recently that she would be open to it if it was for “the sake of the story and the right story reasons”. I wonder if she was taking about this scene?

        Quote  Reply

    203. Chad Brick: Type

      into Google and have a field day. I doubt this is true on TV and wouldn’t give it better than a coin flip in the books, but if there is something deeper about the High Sparrow, that’s likely what it is. For the record, it is my favorite “out there” fan theory and I certainly hope it is correct, even if I have my doubts (especially in the TV version, which always trends towards Keep it Simple, Stupid).

      I must admit that out of the tinfoil theories, along with “Dany was really born in Dorne because of the Lemon Tree”, this is the one I like best.

      Jonathan Pryce did say that the show was going to “delve deeper into the High Sparrow’s background”, so we’ll soon have an answer (at least in the show). Maybe as soon as this episode; “Book of the Stranger” as a title has faith of the seven connotations…

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    204. Jamienne was good but something tells me it was not meant to be with them and Tormund is going to find himself attracted to a certain very tall noble woman of the realm:) It’ll take her awhile to come around but I want it to happen because I’m ready for a bit of quirky romance in this show. What is an unlikely pairing ya’ll would enjoy seeing?

        Quote  Reply

    205. ygritte,

      It’s been established that the Faceless Men don’t kill the ones they know personally. It’s too messy and emotions get in the way. Just like they are no one, they kill those who are no one to them.

        Quote  Reply

    206. I see Drogon burn down the hat and Daenerys walk out of it, naked and unscathed. Which would be cheesy, repetitive and contradictory to canon. But she’s a firecracker with special powers on the show meh

      Arya will be Jon’s Nissa Nissa.

        Quote  Reply

    207. Thronetender: What? One week humanity is worthless, and the next week humanity is so good but misguided? WTF?

      I thought it was very strange

      I would think that it is very realistic. The Sparrow is a religious fanatic. Religious people often do not think: they function solely on belief. They frequently spout platitudes that contradict one another and they never stop to think about it.

      We did learn one thing about him that might be relevant later: the HS never knew his mother. Of course, that would be common in a world like that. Still, we might learn that his apparent Robespierre streak has something to do with this.

      Chad Brick: You mean “awareness of writer-asserted public opinion”.

      No, writer-deduced public opinion. Ellaria knew that the guardsmen would stand by and watch Doran get killed. She never hesitated and they never flinched. That tells us that they knew what was going to happen, and that they obviously did not care to stop it.

      George: I must admit that out of the tinfoil theories, along with “Dany was really born in Dorne because of the Lemon Tree”, this is the one I like best.

      The lemon trees are from her earliest memories, which are from a couple of years after you are born. Those ordinarily might give us a clue as to where she was when she was 2, but they do not say anything about where she was 24 months prior. (I write “ordinarily” as I think that this is one of those ideas that GRRM has debunked in one way or another.)

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    208. No, writer-deduced public opinion.Ellaria knew that the guardsmen would stand by and watch Doran get killed.She never hesitated and they never flinched.That tells us that they knew what was going to happen, and that they obviously did not care to stop it.

      I disagree, utterly and entirely. Not only could she not “know” they would react this way, I find it implausible that any of them would react positively to the murder of their captain and their very honorable Prince, even if they did sympathize with Ellaria’s highly-questionable political stance / quest for petty revenge. The idea that she could just bank on everyone backing on it is outright silly. Her argument is “I need to commit kinslaying of our Prince because he won’t let me kill the grandchildren of the person who was responsible for the killing of my ex’s sister twenty years ago”. What fraction of people buy that argument, even in hot-headed Dorne?

      TV-Ellaria is both irrational and evil (more so than anyone on the show other than Ramsay, and she’s pushing it!). There is no reason to expect “the people” to support her vile behavior, and certainly not with the level of certainly that she could just assume everyone is on her side and would let her get away with the most vile of murders.

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    209. dothrakian raven,

      Littlefinger does not say that she escaped to Winterfell: he says that she escaped [from] Winterfell and is not safe with the Boltons after her. So he is telling the truth, probably hoping to push the lords of the Vale to rally behind Sansa and ready their troops for the upcoming fight over WF. As for his true motives and end game… We’ll see.

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    210. ygritte:
      George,

      Hmm could be, but I took it as JS cause he got the direwolf runt of the litter that was found by itself, and he could be considered “lone wolf” because he wasn’t a true Stark in the “pack”. Arya’s arc is one we have not been spoiled on whatsoever as far as I know. I have no idea where they’re going with her and it’s getting interesting. One way I could see it going is that she’ll become no one for real and is tasked with killing the LoL’s champion, the enemy of the many-faced god, her half brother Jon.

      Makes sense seeing as we are gonna get these Stark reunions this season…and that much Stark good fortune is probably the limit the writers will allow…its gotta get sour after that…it’s almost like all the cosy good parts in the show with beloved characters are really, in the writers’ minds, just setting up a calamity about to befall them to increase the shock-value.

      So the reunion plus Jon’s special relationship with Arya would make it plausible Arya would be pitched against him…the reason will probably be that he cheated death…so the many faced dude cant accept that…

        Quote  Reply

    211. Ned's Direwolf,

      Again, that’s not how FM operate. And given that Jon is Arya’s most important person, not some FM, she’d be out the moment they’d request that of her. That subplot would end before it began.

        Quote  Reply

    212. Chad Brick: I disagree, utterly and entirely. Not only could she not “know” they would react this way, I find it implausible that any of them would react positively to the murder of their captain and their very honorable Prince, even if they did sympathize with Ellaria’s highly-questionable political stance / quest for petty revenge. The idea that she could just bank on everyone backing on it is outright silly. Her argument is “I need to commit kinslaying of our Prince because he won’t let me kill the grandchildren of the person who was responsible for the killing of my ex’s sister twenty years ago”. What fraction of people buy that argument, even in hot-headed Dorne?

      TV-Ellaria is both irrational and evil (more so than anyone on the show other than Ramsay, and she’s pushing it!). There is no reason to expect “the people” to support her vile behavior, and certainly not with the level of certainly that she could just assume everyone is on her side and would let her get away with the most vile of murders.

      The sooner the show moves away from Dorne the better! The whole plot was incredulous to me. So they wanted revenge against the Lannisters and yet they let go of the one Lannister they should want to die (Jamie). Why kill the innocent child but let go of the man who had a hand in the war that resulted in the rape and killing of her ex-husband’s sister that compelled her ex-husband to fight against The Mountain that eventually led to his death?

        Quote  Reply

    213. Sam,
      I dunno, made sense to me. They started by wanting to get revenge for Oberyn, but shifted the focus of their anger to the person who was in charge on their side, because – hey, Jaime can’t help it that he’s a Lannister, right? But Doran should have done something.

      It’s like the alternative life version of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Like if you’re an American and you first vote in the primaries of your party and then you vote in the general election, and like if your candidate doesn’t win the primary, you then threaten on Facebook that you will not to go to vote, or will vote for the candidate of the other party – even though the other candidate of your party is objectively closer to who you wanted in the first place – because you’re so pissed. Only, y’know, with knives and such.

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    214. Laura,

      Dany was told that she would have to go backwards to go forwards correct? She’s now back with the Dothraki at the bottom of the totem pole right now like she was in season one. But then she survived all night in a fire and left unharmed with a bunch of Dothraki followers correct? Could this be foreshadowing? What comes next? She conquered several cities right? Iron throne here we come!

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    215. Royce does not seem happy with what LF is saying to SweetRobin (if the trailer shots are indeed related). Perhaps Royce detects LF’s deceit and manipulation? I fear for Royce and SweetRobin, but I do not know how LF could lead the Vale without them.

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    216. Jansa 2016, I can not wait for the reunion we will finally know the real insight in to the Jon x Sansa relationship. I have strong suspicions that a lot of what will transpire will be more of an explanation of many why Jon decided to join the Nights Watch and I have a feeling Sansa is part of the reason.

      Yeah it sounds odd but there is way too many hints for me to ignore them.

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    217. The lemon trees are from her earliest memories, which are from a couple of years after you are born.Those ordinarily might give us a clue as to where she was when she was 2, but they do not say anything about where she was 24 months prior.(I write “ordinarily” as I think that this is one of those ideas that GRRM has debunked in one way or another.)

      Dunno where you got the idea that George “debunked” the Lemon Tree idea?

      His official answer to a fan in his Not a Blog about the Lemon Tree thing only served to fuel further speculation…(it was something like “You noticed that did you? Yes, I can tell you it’s significant…”)

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    218. ghost of winterfell,

      It’s implied from a different interview that Anya appears in one episode, so I actually doubt she’s Kinvara. There was another Priestess actress we saw filming a bunch of scenes in Spain and I think she’ll be Kinvara not Anya Bukstein (who could be more of a one-off Red Priestess).

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    219. Hodors Bastard: I fear for Royce and SweetRobin, but I do not know how LF could lead the Vale without them.

      Well, LF has set it up perfectly for the Vale Lords. They almost certainly would not attack Winterfell while the Boltons were Lannister allies: to send the strength necessary to take Winterfell, they would have to leave the Vale poorly defended against the other Southern kingdoms.

      LF has actually played this pretty well. Getting Sansa to try to play Cersei Bolton let him cleanly break the Bolton-Lannister alliance on LF’s terms rather than on Bolton or Lannister terms; that in turn made it possible to get the Vale directly involved. But here is the rub: with LF, there is always one more part of the game.

      So, what might it be? Putting Sansa in Winterfell set up breaking the Lannister-Bolton Axis. Breaking the Lannister-Bolton Axis sets up getting the Vale Lords to attack Winterfell as a superficial act of alliance with the Lannisters rather than as an act of defiance against the Lannisters. And that sets up….

      I feel that there is an obvious next domino piece that I am missing. Do you have a good idea?

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    220. jentario,

      Melanie Lubard is the one who was initially thought to be playing Kinvara. After the trailer released, in which we saw Ania, it looked like she was the one playing Kinvara. Yeah, it is not clear what role she is playing, since she seems to be in only one episode.
      The headline of this article seems to suggest that she will be making an appearance this Sunday though.

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    221. George:
      Dunno where you got the idea that George “debunked” the Lemon Tree idea?

      I think that what he debunked was the idea that this meant that it could not be Bravos or something like that. I seem to recall that it was a “careless” error, or an error that crept in because of subsequent editing, etc. Those can be tough to avoid when the basic ideas are rapidly evolving.

      At any rate, the place that Daeny first remembers has no bearing on where she was born: people do not remember their infancies. So, suppose she did remember lemon trees from Dorne or Volantis or wherever at age 2. That means that she was born…. 2+ years ago, and thus potentially quite far away.

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    222. Giocrypt: I have strong suspicions that a lot of what will transpire will be more of an explanation of many why Jon decided to join the Nights Watch and I have a feeling Sansa is part of the reason.

      Yeah it sounds odd but there is way too many hints for me to ignore them.

      What hints are there that Sansa had anything to do with that? There are no indications on the show or in the books that Jon and Sansa ever had much to do with each other: Sansa was very much mini-Catelyn, after all.

      Besides, we have a perfectly good explanation for why Jon joined the Nights Watch: it is one of the few ways in which a bastard can achieve “honor,” and Jon has been hung up on being perceived as honorable from the start. Rewriting that would be a bad thing: so much of the overarching story is going to come from Jon’s arc, and if MB&W retroactively change where that arc starts, then there is a very good chance that the story will get muddled.

      (Given that it seems almost certain that Jon’s contribution to the climax of the story will involve choosing between one dishonorable set of actions to uphold a different honorable set of actions [or vice versa], it could be a catastrophic bit of damage!)

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    223. Wimsey: I seem to recall that it was a “careless” error, or an error that crept in because of subsequent editing, etc.Those can be tough to avoid when the basic ideas are rapidly evolving.

      At any rate, the place that Daeny first remembers has no bearing on where she was born: people do not remember their infancies.So, suppose she did remember lemon trees from Dorne or Volantis or wherever at age 2.That means that she was born…. 2+ years ago, and thus potentially quite far away.

      1. Again, that assertion is not consistent with George’s Not a Blog answer.

      2. But that would mean that the story Dany was told about her childhood is not true, no? Or at the very least, incomplete…

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    224. Wimsey: So, what might it be? Putting Sansa in Winterfell set up breaking the Lannister-Bolton Axis. Breaking the Lannister-Bolton Axis sets up getting the Vale Lords to attack Winterfell as a superficial act of alliance with the Lannisters rather than as an act of defiance against the Lannisters. And that sets up….

      I feel that there is an obvious next domino piece that I am missing. Do you have a good idea?

      I rather enjoy the thoughts from you and others several months back that imply that LF will continue his “king of the ashes” agenda. He will watch the north descend into chaos then swoop in with the Vale forces when the time is right and take WF.

      But then I can’t rid myself of the thought that the Umbers (and Manderlys) have had some communication with LF offscreen and all is not what it seems with the Umber’s gift to Ramsay. Regardless of that bothersome tidbit, LF’s gross manipulations may/will/must enable his downfall at some point. This is ep10 stuff! 🙂

      Then again, the “atonement” crap mentioned in the other thread has thrown me off a bit…I simply don’t understand that comment about LF (nor do I want to).

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    225. Green Chili,

      But I would be very surprised if all the Dothraki follow her because she started a fire that killed all the Khals and she is the only survivor. Remember the wives of Khal Moro think she is a witch and apparently are jealous of her. It looks like they love their husbands and Dothraki love their Khals. She won’t be able to fight against the Bloodriders. It doesn’t seem enough for her to gain the Dothraki. On the contrary, dragons are very useful to conquer cities. Then, I wouldn’t doubt they will follow her if Drogon and brothers make an appearance …
      I agree she could start the fire by herself, but I don’t think it’s enough to win.

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    226. Wimsey,

      I understand your point. However the hints I am referring to are regarding the books, there is a lot of imagery that draws what I would call at least an “interesting” relationship to say the least. Add to that the silence on the books about them. The explanation is flimsy there would be more build up to it about joining the Watch.

      At least those are the conclusions I discern from the works as a whole plus where the show seems to be taking us.

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    227. Hodors Bastard,

      A lot of people do not understand LF for the most part, I hate to break it to you but LF is the cheese, he is the best character on the show. He may come across as hated but his downfall is not coming, not yet at least he will survive this season, I think. Also I think he will do things that will make fans happy as well as mad but his atonement is def key to what will transpire.

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    228. Mag:
      Green Chili,

      But I would be very surprised if all the Dothraki follow her because she started a fire that killed all the Khals and she is the only survivor. Remember the wives of Khal Moro think she is a witch and apparently are jealous of her. It looks like they love their husbands and Dothraki love their Khals. She won’t be able to fight against the Bloodriders. It doesn’t seem enough for her to gain the Dothraki. On the contrary, dragons are very useful to conquer cities. Then, I wouldn’t doubt they will follow her if Drogon and brothers make an appearance …

      Again, people maybe don’t like it or whatever, but I think this is why George wrote the “Stallion Who will Mount the World” thing; something will happen at Vaes Dothrak that will make the Dosh Kahleen proclaim that Dany & Drogon are the fulfillment of that prophecy, and the khalasars will follow.

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    229. Hodors Bastard: But then I can’t rid myself of the thought that the Umbers (and Manderlys) have had some communication with LF offscreen and all is not what it seems with the Umber’s gift to Ramsay.

      Ah, that is a good connection. But maybe this is part of the ashes? Suppose that LF somehow does involve the Umbers. He’ll tell them part of the plan and some of the goals. But he always withholds the overall strategy. So, what is he telling them, and what is he withholding from them? Is LF fanning resentment of the Starks for the failed war? Could LF possibly know about Jon letting the Wildlings into Westeros?

      Overall, I would bet on the Umbers reacting purely to the threat of Wildlings and out of anger that a Stark scion led them into the country. (I like the Grimmsian evolution from “let” to “led,” too.) That’s my “I am betting on a roll of 6 or 7” idea here.

      However…. now that you have put this idea in my head, I have to think that this is a “I am betting on a roll of 4 or 5” idea. I.e., a definite MAYBE! 😀

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    230. Giocrypt: Also I think he will do things that will make fans happy as well as mad but his atonement is def key to what will transpire.

      Yeah, but from LF, his “atonement” might mean making it up to himself when his plan induces only 75% of the chaos that he intended.

      And now I’m going back to humming “Ashes to Ashes (Funk to funky)….”

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    231. HelloThere,

      I think Varys will travel to Dorne to make an alliance and make arrangements for the arrival of Queen Daenerys. Cersei will be busy dealing with the High Sparrow and Tyrells, while Jaime will try to fix things in the Riverlands … I don’t think there will be time for a Lannister Vs. Sand war this season …

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    232. One point that has bothered me from even before the season began, and that is that in all the previews of the Battle of the Bastards (I am going with that) you never see any other army except that of Bolton fighting, you never see Umbers, Manderly or even Karstarks banners anywhere in the previews of the battle while the smaller houses are present even in some of the released set photos you always see the piles of dead Boltons but none of the other houses. I have a feeling that the so called “Northern Conspiracy” is not just Manderly’s or even just Umbers as well well but also includes the Karstarks.

      I am not sure why the Karstarks would still be loyal to the Starks but it just seems strange to me that the Karstarks advice Ramsey to only ally him self with the major houses and that right after Sansa escapes all of a sudden the Umbers are knocking on Ramsey’s door with a gift… Seems a little too convenient just too well timed.

      Call me crazy but I think the Northern Lords are looking at Ramsey like a “mad dog” and leading him to be slaughtered.

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    233. Giocrypt:
      Hodors Bastard,

      A lot of people do not understand LF for the most part, I hate to break it to you but LF is the cheese, he is the best character on the show. He may come across as hated but his downfall is not coming, not yet at least he will survive this season, I think. Also I think he will do things that will make fans happy as well as mad but his atonement is def key to what will transpire.

      I think that, far from dying this season, Littlefinger will find himself at the end of 6.10 as Sansa’s de facto Hand of the Queen (thereby infuriating many fans, lol)

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    234. Giocrypt: I hate to break it to you but LF is the cheese, he is the best character on the show. He may come across as hated but his downfall is not coming, not yet at least he will survive this season, I think.

      Well, at least LF thinks he is the cheese! I agree that the world is more interesting with him in it, but will he and Varys manipulate behind the scenes until the end of this tale? At some point, LF’s secret machinations/manipulations will become known (I’m looking at Bran) to others and he will need to watch his back (or go scampering back to the Fingers).

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    235. George,

      I agree with you. We both think Drogon must be involved in the decision of the Dothraki, right?? … I doubt it will be only because Danny survives a fire …

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    236. Mag:
      HelloThere,

      I think Varys will travel to Dorne to make an alliance and make arrangements for the arrival of Queen Daenerys. Cersei will be busy dealing with the High Sparrow and Tyrells, while Jaime will try to fix things in the Riverlands … I don’t think there will be time for a Lannister Vs. Sand war this season …

      I think you are partially right I do think he will go to Dorne but not on screen what you will see is him back and King’s landing before the season ends, oddly in my opinion right around the time Danny lands in Westeros.

      Yes I am calling it.

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    237. I’m not sure if people mentioned Jorah and Daario earlier. The clip looked like they were fighting each other. I know a lot of people suspect Daario of being the mastermind behind the Harpies, but sometimes I wonder if we’re meant to suspect him. I’m very curious to see how everyone reacts to Jorah’s greyscale. It kind of sucks that he’s carrying something contagious and doesn’t warn anyone. I think that the greyscale will cause him to act rashly and that will be what kills him. I hope he takes down a lot of bad guys beforehand though.

      Also, Jon and Sansa have to see each other this episode! I need something to lift my spirits after Rickon and Osha were handed to the Boltons. GD Umbers -_-

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    238. Giocrypt: Call me crazy but I think the Northern Lords are looking at Ramsey like a “mad dog” and leading him to be slaughtered.

      The problem with this is the Wildlings. Much of what is starting to happen is a reaction to the Wildlings entering Westeros, and the Northerners could not have been planning on that, and nor would they be including the Wildlings in their plans.

      Now, there might be some jockeying for position in terms of “no, no, you can have the honor of leading the charge!” After all, the houses will all be fighting this war with an eye to the wars to come. But insofar as the Umbers, Boltons, Karstarks, etc., are concerned, there will be no more wars to come if they do not eradicate the Wildlings first.

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    239. Giocrypt,

      I would lean more towards Dorne sending people to Daeny. They surely are aware of her. Moreover, here they can play on the family connections: they, at least, are taking revenge against the Lannisters for killing Daeny’s brother, niece and nephew, and they have removed the Martell who never sought justice for their murders.

      (Of course, given that Tyrion liked Myrcella, this could create some internal dissent!)

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    240. Wimsey,

      Yeah I get that, the problem with that is that I seriously the doubt that the first thing wildlings are going to go do right after being let in through the black gate for the first time EVER, is going to go raid. Add to that the fact that Osha is there are Last Hearth had something like that happen I seriously doubt that the Umbers will just go ape and immediately switch loyalties.

      Look at the people that came through Castle Black, do they look like people ready go raid, anything?

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    241. Giocrypt: I seriously the doubt that the first thing wildlings are going to go do right after being let in through the black gate for the first time EVER, is going to go raid

      You or I might doubt it: but we’ve been watching what is happening behind the Wall. We know that, for the first time ever, the Wildlings are not invaders but refugees.

      The Umbers and other Westerosi have absolutely no reason to think that. Wildlings come south for one reason: reaving. They would know next to nothing about the state of the Wildlings. On the contrary, the words that they would have gotten would have exaggerated the Wildlings strengths out of fear. So, of course raiding is the first thing that the Wildlings would do: that’s why Wildlings come to Westeros.

      Giocrypt: Add to that the fact that Osha is there are Last Hearth had something like that happen I seriously doubt that the Umbers will just go ape and immediately switch loyalties.

      “Switching loyalties” cuts in multiple ways. The Umbers have loyalties to their peoples, too: they are supposed to protect them from Wildlings. Their oaths to a defunct house do not somehow supersede their oaths to their own vassals. And, remember, loyalty is supposed to work both ways: the Starks are supposed to send troops to help defend the Umbers and the other northernmost houses when Wildlings invade. However, the Starks cannot fulfill those obligations anymore. Now, you can argue “it’s not the Stark’s fault that they cannot remain loyal to the Umbers.” That is true: and also magnificently irrelevant to both the Umbers and (in the Umbers’ minds) the Wildlings.

      As for Osha, why would she change anything? One tame Wildling woman (who might well have been in chains most of the time, anyway) is one thing. An army of untamed Wildlings is quite another. But, then, perhaps handing Osha to Ramsay is as much revenge against the Wildlings as handing Rickon to Ramsay is revenge against the Starks.

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    242. taim,

      She saved herself by manipulating Khal Drogo and making him fall for her. She saved herself from Viserys when he slapped her in her tent and almost hurt her enough to have killed her son. She won over the Unsullied and conquered Yunkai and Meereen without using a single dragon. In fact, she was able to do these things using her own wits, leadership and intelligence. Many argue that in the pits, she and Drogon saved each other because Drogon wouldnt leave despite getting hurt with the spears and so she climbed on him and ordered him to fly to save him. If she hadnt done that, he would have been killed. Honestly, people need to stop with the whole Drogon-always-saves-Dany rant. If anything, the direwolves, especially Greywind, Ghost and Summer, have saved their owners and killed off their enemies countless times yet we dont hear anyone complaining.

      My prediction for Dany is like its been said before, she will set herself or the tent on fire. First we will see Jorah and Darrio planning an escape for Dany. She will come up with the idea of setting the tent on fire to either proove her worth to the khals or to escape in the chaos. However, the fire she sets attract’s Drogon’s attention and he flies out to her. After seeing her unburnt, the dothraki might be divided then with those who support her vs those against her. Someone brings out the argument that she can only be the Khal of all khals if she mounts the biggest stallion. In that moment, Drogon shows up next to her and she mounts him.

      Setting herself on fire and showing her lack of fear proves to the khal that she has a strong heart; thus earning their respect, but they might still not be convinced of her as a khal. But then seeing her mount Drogon would hit the nail on the head and they will finally realize that shes not just any strong-hearted woman.

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    243. Wimsey,

      I would def be more on board with that theory if it had not been fore Smalljon stating that he knew Jon Snow had let them through the Black Gate, now I know it seems like a small detail but from that I can at least discern that there was some interaction. Add to that the not bending the knee, I know what he said but in the North honor and being hard headed seem to go hand in hand. My guess there will be something going on with the Manderlys at Winterfell this episode and that will make it three.

      It just seems odd that so many things are breaking Ramsey’s way at the right time. Not buying it.

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    244. Wimsey,

      If LF is involved with the Umbers in terms of a plan – I cannot figure what that would be other than we know LF wants as much control/territory that he can get.

      Thoughts creeping into my head with no real basis: Would offering Rickon (if a LF to Umbers suggestion) somehow take the pressure off Ramsay to pursue Sansa giving LF time to find her himself? I can see LF playing off the Umbers fear of a Wilding invasion to give-up Rickon in exchange for help against Wilding Invasions.

      In the preview we hear LF talking of Ramsay in pursuit of Sansa and sending Vale troops (SweetRobin would have to order it, yes?). He may out of concern for her sincerely want to ensure her safety but we can always be sure there is some benefit in it for him.

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    245. Emilia could easily do a nude scene again without actually showing anything. Day’s hair is certainly long enough to cover her boobs, and there are always strategic props that can block certain parts from the viewer. Not difficult.

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    246. I am still shocked about all the “Red Door” and “Lemon Tree” speculation…. DO NOT READ THE SPOILER BELOW if you want to keep believing it.

      In GRRM’s Quartelet “Blood of the Dragon it says:
      “That was when they lived in Tyrosh, in the big house with the red door. Dany had slept in her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window.”

      “They had wandered since then, from Tyrosh to Myr, from Myr to Braavos…” Now if you really want to get shocked, What major Loverboy is Tyroshie

      Ponder that

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    247. Connor,

      Unfortunately, there is the budget issue, you never know … remember the reunion of Jon and Ghost at Craster’s keep … I would love Sansa hugging Ghost, but it’s expensive … so probably it won’t happen.

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    248. Giocrypt: I would def be more on board with that theory if it had not been fore Smalljon stating that he knew Jon Snow had let them through the Black Gate, now I know it seems like a small detail but from that I can at least discern that there was some interaction.

      Why wouldn’t they know that Jon had let in the Wildlings? Thorne and the other Nationalists should have told houses like the Umbers. At any rate, if there is going to be a plot involving one of the main protagonists, then they should have shown some sign of it. But we never saw Jon or Davos sending ravens or couriers a la Littlefinger, or even someone like Ed doing in in their presence.

      Giocrypt: It just seems odd that so many things are breaking Ramsey’s way at the right time. Not buying it.

      Indeed, the Wildling invasion is the biggest gift for which the Boltons could ever have asked. They are very unpopular in the North and the North is in complete disunity. The one thing that could unify them would be an invasion from a Universally Hated Enemy. And lo and behold: the Universally Hated Enemy invades the North. And if that cake was not sweet enough, the gods put the perfect icing on it: a member of the family that the Boltons displaced is the one who let them into the North.

      So, if there had been a conspiracy involving Wildling Invasions, then it would have been the Boltons manufacturing one in order to unite the North. (Many conspiracy theorists convinced themselves that the Bush Administration engineered 9/11 for the same reasons on the same justifications.) However, that isn’t what happened.

      Are the Boltons catching breaks? Heck, yes. But, then, keep in mind that this “big break” is a direct side effect of Jon’s decision to save the Wildlings. I will be that this will be important before it is all done and said.

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    249. VisceralVarys: In the preview we hear LF talking of Ramsay in pursuit of Sansa and sending Vale troops (SweetRobin would have to order it, yes?). He may out of concern for her sincerely want to ensure her safety but we can always be sure there is some benefit in it for him.

      Robin or some regency would have to order it, yes. However: doesn’t LF also have a sanction from Cersei to do this? That would influence things: not only will the Vale not get in trouble with the Lannisters and Tyrells (oh, and *cough* Baratheons) for attacking Winterfell, LF can argue that they might get in trouble with them for not attacking Winterfell!

      But as for the overall plan, I am in the dark. LF always tells others (and us) some of the tactics: but he never reveals the overall strategy. I lean towards the King of the Ashes camp, myself, but I will not be shocked to be wrong. (Years ago, I thought that he was an agent of the White Walkers, as LF seems to be their best wish come true. However, it is much too late in the series to make that the case, and what we’ve learned about the Walkers on the show indicates that they would not work this way.)

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    250. SaveTheWolves:
      Hmmmwhat if Dany claims Drogon as her mount and he’s seen as the stallion that mounts the world?

      This has been set up, IMO, by the dosh khaleen commenting on how Dany ‘thought that he [Drogo] would conquer the world with [her] at his side’, which contrasts with Daario’s comment that he’d like to see the world when Dany has finished conquering it. That dosh khaleen line must have been inserted by the scriptwriters in irony. We know the big cheese was not Drogo; it was Dany all along.

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    251. Wimsey: I would think that it is very realistic.The Sparrow is a religious fanatic. Religious people often do not think: they function solely on belief. They frequently spout platitudes that contradict one another and they never stop to think about it.

      We did learn one thing about him that might be relevant later: the HS never knew his mother. Of course, that would be common in a world like that. Still, we might learn that his apparent Robespierre streak has something to do with this.

      Props for historical knowledge and for noticing this similarity.

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    252. Dee,

      He barely appeared in the first episode … then nothing in episodes 2 and 3, so I guess episode 4 is his comeback in action with Danny’s rescue mission… And Danny will start the fire … and maybe Drogon will make an appearance … I really want to see Drogon.

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    253. Dornish Pastie: Props for historical knowledge and for noticing this similarity.

      Umm… No. That is mainly what people now a days stereotype religious people as being or were. Then again it easy to take shots at the dead, no chance to defend them selves. Still be aware that ours is not the first generation nor the last the future may be as kind to you as you are to the past.

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    254. Thronetender,

      He has manipulated everyone with whom he has engaged, reading them well enough to choose just the right words to neutralize an attack, or to convince them that he is sincere in his faith and is their ally. There is much more to him than meets the eye; I sense his fanaticism is true enough that he would destroy KL, if it suited his purpose. The other side of the coin from LF, if you will – different motivations, but the same result.

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    255. Dornish Pastie: This has been set up, IMO, by the dosh khaleen commenting on how Dany ‘thought that he [Drogo] would conquer the world with [her] at his side’, which contrasts with Daario’s comment that he’d like to see the world when Dany has finished conquering it. That dosh khaleen line must have been inserted by the scriptwriters in irony. We know the big cheese was not Drogo; it was Dany all along.

      I agree.
      Daeny will eliminate all the Khals with fire (I think the series preview showing her hand on the braziers was the clue) – a fire set by her by toppling the braziers over. At this stage she needs to sbow she is the force not Drogon alone. Then she can tell the widows that they can be by her side as she “mounts the world”. The dream lives on but not with a great Kahl rather a great Khalessi.

      It would be awesome to once again to see Drogon light things up but she needs to stand alone here I feel and not be rescued.

      But now what are Jorah and Daario for since I just wrote them into redundancy? Oops, sorry guys. 😮

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    256. Yaga:
      Sam,
      I dunno, made sense to me. They started by wanting to get revenge for Oberyn, but shifted the focus of their anger to the person who was in charge on their side, because – hey, Jaime can’t help it that he’s a Lannister, right? But Doran should have done something.

      It’s like the alternative life version of the No True Scotsman fallacy. Like if you’re an American and you first vote in the primaries of your party and then you vote in the general election, and like if your candidate doesn’t win the primary, you then threaten on Facebook that you will not to go to vote, or will vote for the candidate of the other party – even though the other candidate of your party is objectively closer to who you wanted in the first place – because you’re so pissed. Only, y’know, with knives and such.

      But then, if all they wanted was kill Doran and his heir, why kill Myrcella? She can’t help it also that she’s a Lannister. Killing her showed that they wanted that revenge against the Lannisters. And yet, they let Jamie go! Why? Wouldn’t it have been a greater revenge if they made Cersei and her son tend for themselves?

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    257. Connor:
      Mag,

      Oh yeah, budget issues. I keep forgetting that Ghost is CGI mostly lol.

      Yeah, D&D mentioned before that it was more difficult to do CGI for the direwolf than the dragon. Too bad. Jon and Ghost would have had an awesome “reunion” scene too after his resurrection. I mean, his human came back! He would have been beside himself. But all they could show was a subdued looking direwolf. Oh well, we can’t have it all.

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    258. Sam: Wouldn’t it have been a greater revenge if they made Cersei and her son tend for themselves?

      Jaime is the head of the family, and he is Tywin’s heir. They want Jaime to feel their pain. Cersei herself would be more of an afterthought.

      Sam: Yeah, D&D mentioned before that it was more difficult to do CGI for the direwolf than the dragon.

      Doing hair with CGI is really hard compared to (say), scales. Still, they do a good job: when people were worried that Ghost was dead in the trailers, others pointed out that Ghost’s hair was standing on end, and that canids only do that when very alive and in a “fight or flight” mode.

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    259. Wimsey:

      “Switching loyalties” cuts in multiple ways.The Umbers have loyalties to their peoples, too: they are supposed to protect them from Wildlings.Their oaths to a defunct house do not somehow supersede their oaths to their own vassals.And, remember, loyalty is supposed to work both ways: the Starks are supposed to send troops to help defend the Umbers and the other northernmost houses when Wildlings invade.However, the Starks cannot fulfill those obligations anymore.Now, you can argue “it’s not the Stark’s fault that they cannot remain loyal to the Umbers.”That is true: and also magnificently irrelevant to both the Umbers and (in the Umbers’ minds) the Wildlings.

      As for Osha, why would she change anything?One tame Wildling woman (who might well have been in chains most of the time, anyway) is one thing.An army of untamed Wildlings is quite another.But, then, perhaps handing Osha to Ramsay is as much revenge against the Wildlings as handing Rickon to Ramsay is revenge against the Starks.

      It’s the NW who let the Wildlings in, not the Starks. Sure, the LC was a Stark bastard but he made that decision as a member of the NW, not as a Stark. That reasoning by Smalljon sounded half-witted. So, he gave up a very important asset (Rickon) so he could take a revenge against the Starks for doing… what? He could have held on to Rickon and just “faked” his alliance/loyalty to Ramsay. Shouldn’t be difficult to betray Ramsay later (say, after they drove away/killed the wildlings together) since the Boltons magnificently betrayed the Umbers, too. That’s the revenge the Umbers should want. Their course of action could have been: fake submission to Ramsay so they could get rid of the wildlings with the Bolton army, then betray Ramsay by restoring Rickon as Lord of Winterfell. Anyway, maybe I’m just really upset the writers went this way. 🙂 Probably won’t happen in the books (Ramsay getting Rickon from a family loyal to the Starks).

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    260. Wimsey: Jaime is the head of the family, and he is Tywin’s heir.They want Jaime to feel their pain.Cersei herself would be more of an afterthought.

      You have a point there. It just felt like the reason Jamie was not killed was because he still had to go to Riverlands. That this was the result of the show diverting too much from the books (with his character). I just think the SS are the kind who would kill immediately and not be bothered by “having the chance to inflict pain”.

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    261. If Sansa does reunite with Jon tonight, I believe it will be bittersweet, remember that Beric mentions he looses a little of himself each time, well Sansa and Jon were never close therefore I put forward the theory that Jon won’t recognize her.

      Concerning the ToJ fight scene, my favorite small brawl after the Hound/Arya tavern one. Everything was perfect, choreography, acting, choice of actors, use of the lines from the books and of course the location.

      There was an Easter Egg for book fans, Dayne was wielding Dawn, the swords grip was a two hander and the pommel had a rising golden sun embedded in it, further notice when he slams it into the ground before the fight, the grip and hilt were at his midriff, thus indicating it’s blade was longer, at the least it was a bastard blade.

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    262. tyjon,

      Besides, we don’t know if it’s significant, but Ned beheaded Dayne with Dawn and was carrying the same sword as he ran inside the tower.

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    263. Sam,
      Here’s a fun counter-question for you: Why did Tywin Lannister the ubercalculating strategist let Jaime, the son he wanted as his *heir*, lead his army in the first seasons, if the war he was waging was a war for the son he treated like trash and found worthless? Did he lack for generals? Instead, Tywin essentially (and in effect, as it turned out) risked Jaime for Tyrion. The answer is not just narrative convenience – it’s that Tywin was afflicted by a particular short-sightedness: pride, and putting too much faith in his strategic abilities. That was what caused him to underestimate the probability that *Jaime* could be caught.

      In Ellaria’s case, her point of hubris is that, despite what she says, she does not want the war to avenge Oberyn and Elia. If she did, she would be amenable to arguments such as ‘Oberyn wouldn’t want you to do this’. Instead, it’s her own grief, not the perceived injustice, that’s propelling her. Just like in Tywin’s case – he didn’t go to war for Tyrion, not really. He did it for his own injured pride.

      So, Ellaria killed Doran because she wants a war and he wouldn’t enable her. Why wouldn’t she kill Jaime? Why, that’s because she wants him to suffer his own grief for the loss of a loved one – share her grief, in other words – before, in her mind, she destroys him.

      Also, she probably estimates that Cersei can’t go to war on her own, not in the politically weak position she’s currently in. Jaime is freer to move in this regard.

      In other words: you shouldn’t think about these people, Ellaria or Tywin or others, as being rational. Think of them as being irrational and emotionally motivated.

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    264. Sam,

      Sam: It’s the NW who let the Wildlings in, not the Starks. Sure, the LC was a Stark bastard but he made that decision as a member of the NW, not as a Stark. That reasoning by Smalljon sounded half-witted. So, he gave up a very important asset (Rickon) so he could take a revenge against the Starks for doing… what?

      This question was stuck in my mind yesterday too.

      I don’t think he ever said his betrayal of Rickon Stark was revenge against the Starks for Jon’s action…I think it’s all centred on how the North and the loyalties of it’s armies revolves around WF…he had to secure WF’s alliance against the wildlings and he had to hand over Rickon to convince him because of Umber’s “famed loyalty to the Starks” – hence why they had Ramsay mention that, as we know that the dialogue in the show are carefully chosen and thus every statement crucial (ok, mostly, as Tyrion’s daft games in Meereen were defo not crucial to anything!).

      For all they know the Stark’s are just one child and one girl, seperated with no power. So they abandoned them to secure Ramsay’s loyalty – not to take revenge from them.

      He could have held on to Rickon and just “faked” his alliance/loyalty to Ramsay. Shouldn’t be difficult to betray Ramsay later (say, after they drove away/killed the wildlings together) since the Boltons magnificently betrayed the Umbers, too. That’s the revenge the Umbers should want. Their course of action could have been: fake submission to Ramsay so they could get rid of the wildlings with the Bolton army, then betray Ramsay by restoring Rickon as Lord of Winterfell. Anyway, maybe I’m just really upset the writers went this way. Probably won’t happen in the books (Ramsay getting Rickon from a family loyal to the Starks).

      It was his dad who bore the brunt of the Boltons’ betrayal; not him…from his dialogue about his dad it’s as though the writers want us to think he had always hated his dad (and therefore his policies)…so maybe he was never too fond of the Starks who couldnt provide any protection/army to anyone anyway (since RedWedding) and supporting whom would more than likely only weaken himself… thus having no interest in Rickon except the short-term one, i.e. securing Ramsay’s help.

      And now that Greatjon’s outta the way, and Ramsay and Smalljon are both sortve “up-jumped young lords” – maybe Smalljon wishes to pursue his own ambitions once the wildlings are done with…and thus having no interest left at all with Rickon in the long-term.

      Aaaand, if in the back of their minds they feel Jon with the wildlings might come to revive the Stark claim, then they know that Jon can’t really do that without his brother…so keeping him far outta the way in WF, was important….as a way of drawing him (and the wildlings) as far as WF – maybe if Umber didn’t then Jon and the wildlings would just strike at the Umbers immediately.

      BTW, aren’t the Umbers supposed to have a giant as their sigil…now a giant’s come and you fight against him. It’s like Starks killing direwolves or Targaryen’s fighting dragons…stupid youth these days!!!

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    265. Ned’s Direwolf,

      Ramsay is still Lord of the Dreadfort in addition to being Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North.

      For day to day matters, the Dreadfort is most likely being governed by a castellan who was appointed by Roose when the Boltons moved their forces to Winterfell.

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    266. Ned’s Direwolf:
      Sam,

      This question was stuck in my mind yesterday too.

      I don’t think he ever said his betrayal of Rickon Stark was revenge against the Starks for Jon’s action…

      I’m with you. I’m not sure it was for revenge (although he did mention Jon was the one who let in the wildlings). I was just replying to the one who said that Smalljon gave up Rickon to take revenge against the Starks.

      Ned’s Direwolf:
      Sam,

      It was his dad who bore the brunt of the Boltons’ betrayal; not him…from his dialogue about his dad it’s as though the writers want us to think he had always hated his dad (and therefore his policies)…so maybe he was never too fond of the Starks who couldnt provide any protection/army to anyone anyway (since RedWedding) and supporting whom would more than likely only weaken himself… thus having no interest in Rickon except the short-term one, i.e. securing Ramsay’s help.

      This made me realize that I was expecting the book Smalljon (who was fiercely loyal to Robb and didn’t hate his father, who also was a staunch supporter of Robb) to be like the show Smalljon. For my own peace of mind, I should just abandon these notions and enjoy the show as it is! BTW, did he say he was Smalljon or was it another son? I didn’t catch it actually, and just made an assumption it was him. Of course in the books, he died with Robb at the wedding.

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    267. Do you guys think that Daenerys will mount Drogon again this season? Considering how expensive it is and how they need to use their budget carefully I think she won’t.

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    268. Hubo: Do you guys think that Daenerys will mount Drogon again this season?

      I hope she mounts him, carefully avoiding those fun and phallic horns and nubs along his spine, gathers R&V, and flies west…leaving the regressive Dothraki hordes behind.

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    269. Sam: It’s the NW who let the Wildlings in, not the Starks.

      Umber’s words were that the Wildlings were led by Jon Snow: and his subsequent words make it very clear that he knows that Jon is a Stark Scion.

      Sam: So, he gave up a very important asset (Rickon) so he could take a revenge against the Starks for doing… what? He could have held on to Rickon and just “faked” his alliance/loyalty to Ramsay

      Yes, SmallJon just gave up a very important asset. But he did not just give it away: he cashed in an important asset for armed forces that he desperately needs but on the terms that he wants. Remember, at this point, the Wildling invasion is going to supercede everything else: as we learn last week, the frequent Wildling raids about which we have often heard hit the Umbers very hard; SmallJon has spent his life killing Wildlings doing that. That was raiding parties. Now it’s an army of thousands: and the numbers in the Umbers’ heads are going to be 10X the actual numbers.

      Add to this that they’ve just lost a huge portion of their armed strength to the Starks’ war with the Lannisters. Combined, this means that the Umbers are scared into a state of perpetually voided bowels. They have to fear that their very existence is in jeapordy.

      And that reiterates the “what” that the Starks did. Thanks to two Stark-led wars in the last generation, the most recent of which ended catastrophically for the North, the Umbers are in worse shape than ever for dealing with an army of Wildlings. And who is leading that army? You say that they should blame the Nights Watch in general, but in this world (like ours) the leader gets blamed: and that’s a Stark Scion.

      So, yes, the Umbers would (like people in our world would) blame the Starks.

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    270. Hodors Bastard: leaving the regressive Dothraki hordes behind

      Ah, but to go forward, she has to go backwards.

      Besides, Daeny, Dragon Queen of the Hated Dothraki Savages and Jon, Direwolf King of the Hated Wildling Savages is just too strong a parallel to miss!

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    271. Ned’s Direwolf: And now that Greatjon’s outta the way, and Ramsay and Smalljon are both sortve “up-jumped young lords” – maybe Smalljon wishes to pursue his own ambitions once the wildlings are done with…and thus having no interest left at all with Rickon in the long-term.

      This is, I think, SmallJon’s mistake with Ramsay: Umber seems to be thinking that Ramsay is like him and trying to redo the old-order; what Umber does not realize is that Ramsay is just a psychopath. Of course, their world would not understand the concept of psychopathy, so that would be an easy mistake to make. Psychopaths are difficult enough to accommodate when you undertand what psychopathy is: and when you are trying to force a pyschopath into some other model, well, you are setting yourself up for a very pointy hug.

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    272. Yaga: If she did, she would be amenable to arguments such as ‘Oberyn wouldn’t want you to do this’.

      That assumes that Ellaria (on any level) accepts that Oberyn would not have wanted her to do this. At this stage, Ellaria might be thoroughly convinced that Oberyn would have wanted this. She knew Oberyn much better than did anyone else alive, after all, or so she would think. So, her retort to “Oberyn would not have wanted this” would be “You did not know Oberyn, then.”

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    273. Wimsey: Besides, Daeny, Dragon Queen of the Hated Dothraki Savages and Jon, Direwolf King of the Hated Wildling Savages is just too strong a parallel to miss!

      I like the Dany-Jon “parallel” that has been suggested, but the Dothraki do not need to be saved/rescued from a greater threat like the wildlings do.

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    274. Wimsey,
      Sincerely? The human capability for self-deception, especially in a highly emotional state, is…. I don’t want to say, ‘boundless’. But pretty high.

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    275. Hodors Bastard,

      Yeah but they are needed amd must be united by someone like daenerys to put an end to slavery in essos and essentialy help save westeros from WW by leading them to end of the worlds .

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    276. Besides, Daeny, Dragon Queen of the Hated Dothraki Savages and Jon, Direwolf King of the Hated Wildling Savages is just too strong a parallel to miss!

      I love this parallel!!

      Do you think there’s any significance in there being 3 direwolves left – just as there’re 3 dragons – three each of the 2 distinctively rare (magical?) animals of Ice and Fire…

      (Just thinking aloud:…. If Tyrion is a Targaryen, and Jon is Targ-Stark hybrid…that’d mean 1 Targ for each dragon & 1 Stark for each direwolf – with Jon ‘Azor Ahai’ Starkgaryen himself having 1 of each!!
      Sansa, from the beginning being uncharacteristic of a Stark anyway, doesn’t deserve this legendary status, so she doesn’t get any of that…she can sit in WF while those others rock the world…or maybe she’ll die soon…so there actually only remains 3 from each of our favorite Houses of Westeros remaining on Earth)

      (hey, that’s not to say I want Sansa out, I totally am rooting for her)

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    277. Ned's Direwolf: Do you think there’s any significance in there being 3 direwolves left – just as there’re 3 dragons – three each of the 2 distinctively rare (magical?) animals of Ice and Fire…

      Oh, snap. I feel like I just drank the same water that Arya did.

      Abso-frackin-lutely. And good catch!

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    278. Yaga: Sincerely? The human capability for self-deception, especially in a highly emotional state, is…. I don’t want to say, ‘boundless’. But pretty high.

      Yes, it is. And that is part of why I don’t think that you could convince Ellaria that you knew what Oberyn would have wanted more than she did. And, let’s face it: how often in recent months would have have heard Oberyn go on about the need to avenge his sister? The whole problem with the “That’s not what John Smith would have wanted” appeal is that everyone believes that everyone else is projecting his/her own fears/desires/hatreds onto John Smith and that he/she has it correct.

      (What I do find amusing is how many fans consider Ellaria “evil” for wanting revenge for Oberyn and (through Oberyn) Elia and yet also want the Freys, Lannisters, Boltons, etc., to meet horrible fates for what they did to the Starks! Are only Starks worthy of avenging?)

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    279. Wimsey,
      I wouldn’t try to convince *her*, though? My argument is that what people assume Oberyn would have wanted based on his quotes on the show would not have appealed to her in her emotional state.

      I think that we mean the same thing, just with different words, so I’ll drop this now.

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    280. Wimsey: Ah, but to go forward, she has to go backwards.

      Besides, Daeny, Dragon Queen of the Hated Dothraki Savages and Jon, Direwolf King of the Hated Wildling Savages is just too strong a parallel to miss!

      Love it!

      The Prince(s) who was (were) promised!

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    281. Ned's Direwolf: I love this parallel!!

      Do you think there’s any significance in there being 3 direwolves left – just as there’re 3 dragons – three each of the 2 distinctively rare (magical?) animals of Ice and Fire

      Yep. Expect that to be important in the Mythical Book that George will never put out…

      Ah, well, at least we’ll see a version of it the show…

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    282. George: Yep. Expect that to be important in the Mythical Book that George will never put out…

      And the legend will become myth, etc.

      Indeed, I can envision future religions founded on someone “finding” the completed chapters of Dawn under a rock some place….

      😀

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    283. Hodors Bastard,

      True. However, there remains the parallel that this time, neither the Dothraki nor the Wildlings are here to ruin your way of life: they actually could be here to help!

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