Game of Thrones S6 ratings so far: an overview

We are now at the middle of the current season (already!), and it is time to look at the ratings so far, which in turn means you are going to see another shiny graph. Here it is (you can click to enlarge):

Ratings mid-season

As you will remember, the season started out strong, close to the record from last season finale, which lies just above the 8 million mark (8.11 to be precise). After two episodes in the range of 7.3, the initial viewership returned to the premiere levels at 7.9 million with episodes 604 and 605.

Comparing the run of Game of Thrones against other successful HBO shows reveals the show’s remarkable popularity. It surpassed The Sopranos as the most watched show in HBO’s history last year (unfortunately we lack reliable and consistent week-to-week numbers from that era). You can observe that True Blood, the next most popular show, was reaching over 3 million fewer viewers at the same stage of its run, i.e. by its sixth season.

While we wait for the latest numbers on episode 606, which aired on Sunday during the Memorial Day weekend, we can also look at the drops in initial viewership that Game of Thrones experienced when airing on the holiday Sunday. That happened three times in the past (episodes 107, 209, and 507) and the average drop was one of 10 % compared to the average of the two preceding episodes. Last year, the drop was particularly severe with one whole million fewer pairs of eyes, or 17 %. This year, an average drop would bring the viewership to just above 7 million, and a drop of the same size as last year to 6.5 million. These two benchmarks should give us some perspective when assessing this years Memorial Day weekend numbers.

What are your predictions for the future? Let us know in the comments, as always.

254 responses

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    1. Torienne!

      Viewership will probably drop a bit then go up again for the finale.

      S6E06 was a bit of a let-down, felt like a “setup” episode with some awkward writing.

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    2. Becks,

      Bryan Cogman’s writing isn’t awkward… it’s awesome! I’m sure the last scene was added by editors and it’s not Cogman’s stuff. (Just like they put Hound-Bronn scene in S2E09 which wasn’t GRRM’s writing)

        Quote  Reply

    3. While obviously you can’t know until you’re actually watching the episode, I had had a feeling this episode would be a ‘quieter’ type with plenty of set-up for the rest of the series. It was a good episode but I imagine the more casual viewer would feel a little let-down following the emotional rollercoaster of the last couple of weeks.

      With it being Memorial Day in the States the figures will probably drop a little and then build back up again next week – nothing to worry about!

        Quote  Reply

    4. But why would the more casual viewer expect the rollercoaster to keep on rolling without any kind of setup? 🙂 I actually think S6E06 was quite good, even by GoT standards. Expect the viewership to drop a bit for Memorial Day and then jump back to the top. This is probably going to be the best season yet.

        Quote  Reply

    5. Oh cool, I was hanging to see an update of this.

      Prediction: ratings for any given episode will continue to bear no relationship to what the fandom thought of the previous week’s episode.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Vlad the Impaler,

      I’m with you on that, there needs to be set-up but I’m thinking of my own friends and family members who barely know the names of the characters but still tune in every week basically to see who’ll be killed so they have something to talk about at the water cooler the next day – those are the casual fans who can cause the viewing figures to drop and they represent a far higher population than the likes of us who seek out information online!

      While I did enjoy the episode, I have to say I’m really not digging King’s Landing at all this year – Cersei’s little speeches about vengeance and almost anything the HS says are quite boring to me compared to all the other amazing storylines – if I’m honest I need Cersei to just start losing her mind and shouting about burning the city to the ground!

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    7. Daeryssa,

      Honestly i rather the show don’t pander to the ADHD audiences,these are the type of people who ruined Hollywood where you need an action scene every 10 minutes otherwise the iphone drone audiences might lose patience with their short attention span,no,the show is fine as it is . So what if the rating drops a little,it’s not like this show needs ratings anymore,it’s already a cultural phenomenom .

        Quote  Reply

    8. Roman Godfrey,

      Absolutely and I fully agree with you, I trust D&D and I trust HBO to not do this to the show but it’s the ADHD -type viewers who make up a huge amount of the viewing population.

      A drop in ratings would certainly not affect my view of the show but it frustrates me when people dip in and out of it purely because they’re not finding enough excitement in an episode – they need to realise that a set up episode is always necessary.

      We have been incredibly spoilt this season and while this episode would be further down my personal list of favourites it’s still a million times better than anything else that’s out there!

        Quote  Reply

    9. Daeryssa,

      But it does make me question why the hell are people complaining about the next seasons being shorter if they don’t like these setup episodes,that means the last two seasons will be very eventful .

        Quote  Reply

    10. Dee,

      Certainly nothing to worry about Dee we can rest assured there! Are you saying you agree with me on the King’s Landing storyline or the frustration of casual viewers? 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    11. Daeryssa,

      the frustration of the casual viewers. I have had a few friends message me and say “It was good but not as good as last week.

      Well you think?????????????????? We cant have a hold the door or red wedding in every episode. It kind of annoys me because I love this show and the quieter moments are some of the most important.
      I bet you my friends didn’t even notice the how important those visions were.

      makes me mad.

      Re: kings landing… Its been my least favorite of the seasons (still good though, especially after what transpired last episode) but I agree I am kind of over it.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Dee,

      That’s the thing! I was stupidly delighted when my other half guessed it was Benjen – he hasn’t read the books and has only recently realised how much he needs to actually pay attention to details so I was happy he guessed right.

      I can guarantee my family though have absolutely no recollection as to who he even is! After 6 years they still say things like “that khaleesi girl with the dragons” so there is no way they caught the importance of Bran’s visions, I’ve given up explaining it!

        Quote  Reply

    13. Daeryssa,

      hahaha omg. Khaleesi girl! LOL
      I guess they cant all be like us.

      I have a few cousins who message me and ask me questions and require explanation, which is nice as in theyre trying to make the effort to learn. I have also convinced a few that to fully enjoy the show you must rewatch all the seasons before each season airs.

      Kind of late in the game but whatever.

        Quote  Reply

    14. Thanks, Marko!

      I’ve been feeling very nostalgic recently for the early days. I remember the very first ratings graphs. Amazing how GoT rose to be the undisputed king of them all.

        Quote  Reply

    15. I’m using na app called TVShow Time, to track episodes of the series I watch.

      It is already showing the names of the last three episodes, but in German (the app is in English and I live in Brazil, so… go figure).

      08 – Niemand (No One)
      09 – Die Schlacht der Bastarde (The Battle of the Bastards)
      10 – Die Winde des Winters (The Winds of Winter)

      Is this for real? Can anyone confirm this?

        Quote  Reply

    16. Just here, for the 18th time in 5 years, to say “None of these numbers mean anything.”

      Thanks! See you all next time when you post more ridiculous overnight numbers that mean absolutely nothing!

      Thanks for perpetuating ignorance with your influence!

      Love you!

      Actually, that last part isn’t sarcasm. I do love you guys… even if you are perpetuating ratings ignorance. It’s not like any of this is important.

        Quote  Reply

    17. GeekFurious,

      Who says they mean anything?
      I don’t think any of their ratings mean anything at this point in the game 😉

      it is an interesting number to discuss though
      How many people watched the first airing of GOT live.
      I like to know, so don’t click these articles anymore lol

        Quote  Reply

    18. Becks,

      Becks, are you Unsullied? This episode had epic reactions from us Sullied, but it also felt like an episode that was specially designed to give the Sullied everything we’d been salivating for. I wondered if there would be a great divide between how Sullied and Unsullied viewed this particular episode. I need to checkout the Unsullied post and responses, don’t I? But I try to stay away since I’m not particularly effective at resisting the temptation to comment.

      On average, the likability ratings for S606 are extraordinarily high, even for GoT, at 9.7. “The Door,” S605, was epic. Both of these awesomely high likability ratings bode well for how many will watch future episodes, and so I would predict that the ratings for the remainder of the season (not including Memorial Day weekend’s episode) will continue to rise over the first half of the season. We might see dips, but Episodes 9 and 10 will be particularly hyped and so particularly high, hopefully breaking records for both episodes.

        Quote  Reply

    19. The titles are probably real. Below are the supposed synopses:

      June 12: “No One”: Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern. Cersei (Lena Headey) prepares for the worst. Sansa (Sophie Tuner) takes control. Arya (Maisie Williams) is not alone. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.

      June 19: “Battle of the Bastards”: Ramsay (Iwan Rheon) surprises his audience. Jon (Kit Harington) retaliates. Dany (Emilia Clarke) is true to her word. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

      June 26: “The Winds of Winter”: A queen comes forth. Euron (Pilou Asbæk) reveals himself. Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) meets a friend turned foe. King’s Landing awaits justice. The Night’s Watch gathers. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

        Quote  Reply

    20. Ginevra,

      well
      this is weird.

      about 30 mins ago I just went into complete geek mode and created a table in excel with the imdb ratings for each episode…. as I was curious to see the ratings (likeability factor) of each episode.

      and then you send this.

        Quote  Reply

    21. Sergei Walankov:
      Oh cool, I was hanging to see an update of this.

      Prediction: ratings for any given episode will continue to bear no relationship to what the fandom thought of the previous week’s episode.

      If Marko would publish or email me the numbers from from his spreadsheet graph, I’d love to prove this statement false. There is a at least some association between the previous week’s likability ratings on IMDb and viewership numbers. I believe the relationship might even be a strong one.

        Quote  Reply

    22. Eleanor:
      Thanks, Marko!

      I’ve been feeling very nostalgic recently for the early days. I remember the very first ratings graphs. Amazing how GoT rose to be the undisputed king of them all.

      How nice to hear that, thank you! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    23. Daeryssa:
      Dee,

      Certainly nothing to worry about Dee we can rest assured there! Are you saying you agree with me on the King’s Landing storyline or the frustration of casual viewers? ?

      King’s Landing isn’t what she used to be, and she isn’t what she’s gonna be, but she’s exactly what she is. Duh, you say. My point is that I believe we’re in a lull in KL, but it will get better. Soon.

        Quote  Reply

    24. Mihnea,

      Seems like a “new” queen.
      Don’t think its Cersei or Margery as kings landing is mentioned in another statement.

      So its either New Queen Sansa = Rickon dies OR it has to do with Daeny. Doubt it.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Dee:
      Daeryssa,

      the frustration of the casual viewers. I have had a few friends message me and say “It was good but not as good as last week.

      Well you think?????????????????? We cant have a hold the door or red wedding in every episode. It kind of annoys me because I love this show and the quieter moments are some of the most important.
      I bet you my friends didn’t even notice the how important those visions were.

      I know, right? I would text them back: “What?!!! If you had only spent ten hours on the 30-second Bran visions, freeze-framing, screenshooting, and theorizing like mad, you would have had a much better appreciation for the episode. An hour analyzing Margaery’s facial expressions and the Machiavellian plan beneath the mask would not have gone amiss, either.”

        Quote  Reply

    26. dragonmcmx,

      Where is this from, though. This is usually the time of the season where fake synopses and summaries start popping up everywhere.

      According to reddit, it originates from IMDB’s forums. Which doesn’t bode well for this being legit.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Dolorous (N)Edd:
      Hear Marko Roar,

      Thanks! Haven’t seen that one.

      It does look fan-made, right? I mean “The Battle of the Bastards” is too obvious.

      I tend to think there is at least a 50% chance of truth, but I got the impression that Sue thought the chances were slimmer.

        Quote  Reply

    28. dragonmcmx:
      The titles are probably real. Below are the supposed synopses:

      June 12: “No One”: Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern. Cersei (Lena Headey) prepares for the worst. Sansa (Sophie Tuner) takes control. Arya (Maisie Williams) is not alone. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.

      June 19: “Battle of the Bastards”: Ramsay (Iwan Rheon) surprises his audience. Jon (Kit Harington) retaliates. Dany (Emilia Clarke) is true to her word. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

      June 26: “The Winds of Winter”: A queen comes forth. Euron (Pilou Asbæk) reveals himself. Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) meets a friend turned foe. King’s Landing awaits justice. The Night’s Watch gathers. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

      OMG! Where did the synopses come from? When I read the original article and the Sky page, I didn’t see any synopses, even in German, and I’d love to see where the original source is. Thanks.

      ETA: Just Googled. These synopses do sound like fan speculation, but that doesn’t make the titles wrong since I don’t think they accompanied the synopses. Here is what I found when Googling: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4ltpp0/spoilers_everything_final_three_got_season_6/

        Quote  Reply

    29. Hellfell:
      Becks,

      Bryan Cogman’s writing isn’t awkward… it’s awesome! I’m sure the last scene was added by editors and it’s not Cogman’s stuff. (Just like they put Hound-Bronn scene in S2E09 which wasn’t GRRM’s writing)

      You will never please everyone, but I totally agree with you that is was again, a great episode. The show is spot on in regards to taking that much material and jamming it into a television show while trying to keep a good quality of video. There will always be people who complain…how sad for them that they can’t find happiness.:)

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    30. I don’t see a source for those “leaked” descriptions, so I won’t believe them for now.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Dee:
      Daeryssa,

      the frustration of the casual viewers. I have had a few friends message me and say “It was good but not as good as last week.

      Well you think?????????????????? We cant have a hold the door or red wedding in every episode. It kind of annoys me because I love this show and the quieter moments are some of the most important.
      I bet you my friends didn’t even notice the how important those visions were.

      makes me mad.

      Re: kings landing… Its been my least favorite of the seasons (still good though, especially after what transpired last episode) but I agree I am kind of over it.

      I am so with you. I’m making my daughter watch D&D after the episode credits so she can understand a bit better and now that she’s watching “After the Thrones” it’s clarifying a lot for her. KL isn’t my favorite this season, but watching Jaime climbing the stairs on his horse (not an easy feat), the armor on the KG when Tommen came out that door and then the face off with his father/uncle where Jaime throws the armor on the floor was AWESOME…quiet but like you said, you can’t always have a RW or Hold the Door.

        Quote  Reply

    32. ghost of winterfell,

      Yeah, those are definitely fake. An obvious tell for fake spoilers is the tendency to allude to Lady Stoneheart.

      Unrelatedly, the new Aeron chapter (which they somehow managed to transcribe online) is one of the best TWOW excerpts to date, and I didn’t care for his previous POVs in AFFC.

        Quote  Reply

    33. Dee:
      dragonmcmx,

      Is this for real though?

      A queen comes forth = Sansa = Rickon dies.
      Wtf is up with the spoilery Titles and descriptions

      Or it could be

      Khaleesi or Cersei or Margaery.

        Quote  Reply

    34. The titles and synopses are from reddit and/or imdb. The person who shared them claimed they were from the German Sky TV thing as well.

      There’s no proof that they’re legit, but the synopses sure sound like it. If it’s fake it was very well done.

        Quote  Reply

    35. We have no idea if the alleged episode synopses are legitimate or not but for now, you all have got to keep these covered up in spoiler coding, including your reactions to them, in case something turns out to be real.

      They have not provided an actual source as of yet. Saying vaguely “SkyTV” doesn’t count.

      In fact it might be better if you started a post in the forums about this if you want to discuss it openly there.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Ginevra: King’s Landing isn’t what she used to be, and she isn’t what she’s gonna be, but she’s exactly what she is.Duh, you say.My point is that I believe we’re in a lull in KL, but it will get better.Soon.

      I’m sure you’re right, I’m just being overly impatient when it comes to KL. I am absolutely loving every single other storyline this series but I think KL is missing the likes of Varys, Tyrion, Littlefinger etc. The HS, while being brilliantly manipulative tends to drone on a bit for me and Cersei is just annoying me at this stage to be honest.

        Quote  Reply

    37. It’s funny but the number don’t mean a lot to me, but it’s kind of nice to see them. I, for one, sat up and watched the season premiere, then couldn’t sleep at all, and then paid the next day when my alarm went off at 3:30 a.m. For me it was awesome to be able to stay up for once and watch it with my family, but in the US the numbers could be very skewed due to the holiday.

        Quote  Reply

    38. Elizabeth,

      That’s the one group that deserves an OWN this week. The smithy’s that made the new kings guard armor reflecting the church and crown on the down low. Qyburns little birds are not doing their jobs.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Ginevra,

      My little exercise showed me that people love action/death.

      The episodes with the highest ratings are Hardhome and the Rains of Castamere, followed by Blackwater. the Door, the lion and the rose, the mountain and viper.

      The funny thing is, I even looked at the number of votes… most episodes have around 9000to 12000 votes on average…. but hardhome and rains of castamere have over 40,000 votes.

      So its like most people think “I loved this episode so much I will vote”, and when they don’t love it that much, they don’t vote.

      its interesting hahaha

        Quote  Reply

    40. Elizabeth: I am so with you.I’m making my daughter watch D&D after the episode credits so she can understand a bit better and now that she’s watching “After the Thrones” it’s clarifying a lot for her.KL isn’t my favorite this season, but watching Jaime climbing the stairs on his horse (not an easy feat), the armor on the KG when Tommen came out that door and then the face off with his father/uncle where Jaime throws the armor on the floor was AWESOME…quiet but like you said, you can’t always have a RW or Hold the Door.

      I love Inside the Episodes, The Game Revealed videos, and After the Thrones. AtT seems designed particularly for the less than avid fans with their “Who the fuck was that?” sections, their maps, and their detailed background explanations. They enlightened us to Margaery’s alternate agenda, which might not have been so clear to the casual viewer, and they pointed out that we might want to be a little dubious of Dany at the moment.

        Quote  Reply

    41. The guy who posted these “leaks” on IMDB is the same guy who posted that really fake video with

      Michelle Fairley in the woods hinting at LSH,the fact that there are hints for LSH in synopses says it all

      . I do have to give him credit for managing to copy HBO’s way of writing the episode synopses,he clearly put an effort into it .

        Quote  Reply

    42. Sue the Fury,

      honestly, I don’t usually read synopsises.. but I had started reading his message and was a bit late for that.

      I reaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllyyyy hope theyre fake.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Guys totally irrelevant but I just followed James Faulkner (Randyll Tarly) on Twitter and he messaged me saying thank you *-*. I told him that his performance was brilliant and that we can’t wait to see Randyll again. What an amazing actor and person he is!

        Quote  Reply

    44. Daeryssa,

      Well Aidan did play that bad guy in the video game Quantum Break where he could manipulate time ,so apparently LF doesn’t only own a jetpack but a time machine as well .

        Quote  Reply

    45. dragonmcmx:
      The titles are probably real. Below are the supposed synopses:

      June 12: “No One”: Tyrion (Peter Dinklage) finds cause for concern. Cersei (Lena Headey) prepares for the worst. Sansa (Sophie Tuner) takes control. Arya (Maisie Williams) is not alone. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Mark Mylod.

      June 19: “Battle of the Bastards”: Ramsay (Iwan Rheon) surprises his audience. Jon (Kit Harington) retaliates. Dany (Emilia Clarke) is true to her word. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

      June 26: “The Winds of Winter”: A queen comes forth. Euron (Pilou Asbæk) reveals himself. Brienne (Gwendoline Christie) meets a friend turned foe. King’s Landing awaits justice. The Night’s Watch gathers. Written by David Benioff and D.B. Weiss; directed by Miguel Sapochnik.

      Some fun stuff there. Cersei prepares for the worst? Prepping the wildfire nukes in case she loses her trial by combat? Sounds like it is in E10 because of “King’s Landing awaits justice”. My guess here is that Loras is the Seven’s Champion, as his penance. He will lose, but only after exposing FrankenMountain as the monster he is. This reveal voids the result, and all burns. Though this doesn’t quite jive with the “I choose violence” bit from the first trailer, so something is missing.

      Tommen will die in E10, but I am not sure if it is due to Cersei’s fire, a sneak attack by Dorne (errr, fAegon) or both. Ideally Cersei being directly responsible is best for the story, but Dorne can’t possibly be sitting on the sideline until next year after the hot-hot-hot revenge arc they’ve been on. Perhaps Cersei’s fire will kill Margaery, and Tommen will suicide himself in front of Cersei. Hmmm…what are some other fun ways the story could stick it to her? Also note that GRRM said we’d be seeing Casterly Rock in TWOW. Cersei fleeing the capital after Tommen’s death and a Dorne attack would put her there (it’s either her or Jaime or more likely both…what other POV would be there?).

      Tyrion and the cause for concern probably relates to the Harpy murders we see in the trailer. A war or siege commences, Dany saves the day next episode. That seems rather straightforward.

      Ramsay surprising his “audience” is likely the burning crosses. He kills Rickon to bait Jon and his army, trying to antagonize them and get them to do something strategically stupid.

      One that really intrigues me is Arya not being alone. I’ve been saying for a while that Needle doesn’t seem like enough for Arya to beat the Waif, because the Waif would expect Arya to find a way to arm herself. But, say, a cat to the face a dog mauling her? The Waif ain’t expecting that, now is she? Maybe we are getting a wargy surprise (and yes, I know, this would be out of nowhere on TV, but sometimes those things work…and I certainly hope Nymeria has a role to play going forward in both media!).

      The other odd one is Euron. An Old Town attack would not be much of a “reveal”. There are plenty of possibilities here, but none really strike me as TV-ready.

      And then, of course, comes our annual LSH tease. Though this one is so nakedly such that it might be intended ironically. My Bayesian probability of this theory finally being true just edged up infinitesimally.

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    46. Sue the Fury,

      I was wondering why i didn’t catch that up in the episode,it’s really annoying when people do things like that,probably a hater of the show who wants to show how “sloppy” the tv show is . Reminds me of those people who complained about Loras saying French sleeves,when he said fringed sleeves . I mean you could criticise story aspects of the show as much as you want but the technical details are almost always on point .

        Quote  Reply

    47. Dee:
      Sue the Fury,

      honestly, I don’t usually read synopsises.. but I had started reading his message and was a bit late for that.

      I reaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllyyyy hope theyre fake.

      Sorry for not covering them in the first place. Though in my defense, I did warn “synopses below”, which should’ve been enough to be alarming.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Why do I get this sick feeling that

      that euron reveals himself is when you see darrio reveal as euron

      Please god don’t let this happen .

      They do seem real enough in some parts ..if this is true then episode 9 won’t just be about north and kind of like hardhome.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Ginevra,

      Turns out you’re right, up to a point (you can get all the ratings data here). The coefficient for the previous episode’s IMDB rating as a predictor of the next episode’s change in ratings on the previous week is 0.4817, suggesting an episode following a 9-rated episode can expect to rate nearly 0.5 higher than one following an 8-rated episode. It’s statistically significant, although the R-squared isn’t much (around 0.2, so the model predicts 20% of the variation).

        Quote  Reply

    50. I totally forgot Loras and Mountain had beef in season 1. That sets them up more than bringing the hound back. I doubt the faith will want to antagonise the Tyrells by keeping Loras locked up so this is do able once he does it willingly.

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    51. Sean C.:
      ghost of winterfell,

      Yeah, those are definitely fake.An obvious tell for fake spoilers is the tendency to allude to Lady Stoneheart.

      Unrelatedly, the new Aeron chapter (which they somehow managed to transcribe online) is one of the best TWOW excerpts to date, and I didn’t care for his previous POVs in AFFC.

      Yeah, even if this twist were to happen, there is no way that HBO would hint at this in the episode synopsis.

      Is the Aeron one a totally new chapter? I am generally allergic to Greyjoy PoVs, but it’s nice to hear that it’s that good.

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    52. At this stage, number of Viewers aren’t that important. there are 20 episodes left of the series. They will be done no matter how few or many that watches. The traitors D &D, off with their heads!

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    53. Dee,

      The show’s not an underdog anymore. There will be all sorts of contrarian voices. The amount of times I’ve read an article with comments that declare, “I’ve never seen an episode and I never will!” I mean, yeah, so what? But that’s the sort of people that popular shows draw, never mind the most popular TV show on the planet. And then you’ll get the smug “The show sucks now and if you can’t tell then you’re an idiot” type of articles and comments. All par for the course. When the show’s over and done they’ll move on to something else and all the fans will still cherish GoT,

        Quote  Reply

    54. Sou,

      Haha, I know right? I could listen to this guy all day.

      Dee,

      Jesus, his first reason is literally “noone died last episode, worst show ever”.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Sean C.,

      LOL at (Aeron POV chapter spoiler)

      Euron admitting that he not only killed Balon, but two of his other brothers. I remember the outcry just 2 weeks ago when he openly admitted to killing Balon in the show. Also, he is so damn over the top, which works for him, but if any of this happened on the show first, fans would be complaining about it just like they did with Ramsay in season 3.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Daeryssa,

      I think you hit the nail on the head. Who was it that made KL interesting in past seasons? It was Tyrion, Varys, LF, Bronnn, Tywin, and Joffrey. Now, they’ve either died (Joffrey and Tywin) or gone on to take their places in the larger story (everyone else). Whose left but Cersei, Tommen, the High Sparrow, and the Tyrells. Not quite as engaging company, is it?

        Quote  Reply

    57. dragonmcmx,

      Brilliant! Thanks for the laugh!

      Dee,

      That article is so ridiculous. Sounds like he is interpreting “Blood of my Blood” as nothing deeper than a kill count. Change the channel, Mister.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ginevra,

      German version of titles http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/05/game-of-thrones-episode-608-610-titles.html

      I thought these were fake, or simplified translations, because the ‘battle of bastards’ is a really substandard title, IMO. But the summaries could be legit.

      ‘Brienne meets a friend-turned-foe’ could actually be her meeting Jaime. Now that she is on Sansa’s side and Jaime is fighting the Tullys, they are foes, technically.

        Quote  Reply

    59. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      Yup

      read the chapter. Didn’t like it. Way to over the top. Valyrian armor, seriously? The red eye….is a literal red eye…. Also seems Euron will get only more over the top… Good for those who liked that but that was my biggest dislike about him, so i’m not excited at all. And Aeron got the Hotah treatment. He exist just so we can get a POV into a important location…but we can’t have a Euron(Doran) POV because it would reveal to much…

      Also

      Looks like Euron will go after Dany…..The same thing he purposed on the show..

        Quote  Reply

    60. Dee,

      Yes it does, but it sparks chaos and he may knock the mountains helmet off, revealing the monstrosity. Btw Oberyn beat the hell out of the mountain, Loras is no slouch. Unless he’s invincible to wounds and blows now

        Quote  Reply

    61. dragonmcmx:
      Mihnea,

      Lmao my comment was removed, I think I might’ve offended someone here.

      Your post was removed because it included a homophobic slur. Do it again and you’ll be banned. Thanks.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Sean C.,

      I liked that chapter. One of the best from TWOW, but it si just Reek and Ramsay torture porn 2.0. And whenever some book fans start complaining about Ramsay in the show I will advise them to read that chapter and see what supervillain really looks like.

      I mean, GRRM created devices for Euron that never existed in this story before.

      Valyrian armor,dragonbinder,…

      It is too much.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Dee:
      ot

      omg this is the WORSTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT article I have ever read.
      please read his reasons why GOT sucks now
      WTF? hahahah

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3617767/Cue-Daenerys-dragon-6-reasons-Game-Thrones-shadow-shocking-best-bordering-boring-Jim-Shelley.html

      I wouldn’t worry too much about the Daily Mail… They’re considered a bit of a joke by anyone with any intelligence in the UK. It’s a right wing, middle class rag who publish the most ridiculous, misinformed crap… As proven by this article 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    64. Hear Marko Roar,

      Hee, thats like asking Ramsey’s dogs to wait for dinner. A crumb? Must have shaker of salt! 🙂 I do agree with you and don’t take much stock in the #s given how high they’ve always been

        Quote  Reply

    65. mau,

      Noooo. We want more. Joffrey was just a prick, Ramsay is a sadistic bastard, but Euron is the real living enemy of the story.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Ginevra,

      tT seems designed particularly for the less than avid fans with their “Who the fuck was that?” sections, their maps, and their detailed background explanations. T

      Been reading those too, and even tho Im a book reader and big fan, Ive been learning a lot. My only complaint is that they don’t give you enough time to read the intro to each chapter, so I have to remember to pause so i can finish it. Still well worth watching for the casual fan, to the fanatic …. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    67. mau,

      Not to mention

      that the entire idea of Aeron rallying the people against Euron was simply abandoned so we can get a POV around him. Just like Hotah, they both exist so we can see what 2 more important people do, because if they had POV’s we would know to much.. This also happened in books 1-3, but in my opinion it wasn’t this obvious.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Sean C.,

      Sorry, but that chapter is shit.
      It’s as if GRRM keeps trying to outdo himself with his villains. Joffrey was bad, so obviously Ramsay had to be a serial killer and rapist. But that Euron chapter… I mean, does trying to outdo Ramsay even make sense? It was a caricature bordering on self-parody, and it’s hilarious.

      I’ll take beer-belly show Euron over that nonsense every day of the week, and I didn’t like the Kingsmoot.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ginevra,

      Well, I am Unsullied (at least I try to be) and I absolutely loved this episode (not so excited about the last scene though). To be honest, I thought it was better than the previous one (minus the Hold the Door part).

        Quote  Reply

    70. Sue the Fury,

      Sorry about that. Won’t happen again.

      jentario,

      Not at all in my opinion.

      The “friend turned foe” is clearly supposed to be Jaime.

      Most fake synopses I’ve seen are painfully obvious or spoilery, much more so than these three, which is why I’m considering their legitimacy in the first place.

        Quote  Reply

    71. mau,

      To be honest, I agree… But it just feels..forced.

      I think what he should have done, with both the Ironborn and Dorne, is making just 1 character POV in both.

      Make Arianne a POV sure, I don’t like her, but perhaps cutting Hotah’s chapters, where we learn nothing it’s in Arianne’s that Doran reveals himself, cut Quentyn as a POV, every thing he does could have been done ”off-screen”. And cut that pointless Arys chapter… Give them to Arianne and perhaps I would actually liked her..

      Same with the Ironborn. Victarian serves as a plot device so we can see more Euron and Asha so we can get a POV in

      Stannis’s camp

      .

      This way it just feels forced. We had this in books 1-3 as well but then it felt much more natural. Tyrion was with Tywin and Catelyn was with Robb…etc.

      OK, here I will stop as it’s off-topic.

        Quote  Reply

    72. The quieter moments often set up huge events and character development. Remember Tyrion’s “Lady Stark, you will survive us yet,” from season 2? Or Tyrion’s “Sansa’s not a killer…not yet anyway.” Most didn’t remember those small moments. And then most audience members went on harping about how dumb Sansa is, etc. And now it looks like she may indeed be the ultimate survivor.

        Quote  Reply

    73. Ginevra,

      Im in your camp.. this last episode was awesome for me and Im half sullied and half unsullied (lol).. I am so perplexed at the folks who just didn’t get the extreme importance of some of the things that took place this last week. Idk… I have just come to accept that others are always going to find something to be nit picky about…

      Dee

      Agree whole heartedly.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Read the chapter of aeron ..

      Spoilers below

      An valyrian steel armor really ..why no targ ever used that one .it would have helped rhegar ..

      And whats with all the different priests held captive in the ship..

      He makes Ramsay look like a joke..

      With that vision of euron on iron throne and a tall women beside him is The only thing that made me happy about the chapter because that it confirms euron will never marry dany thank gods about that ..

        Quote  Reply

    75. dragonbringer,

      Because every valyrian armor lost when the doom of Valyria happened. But Euron said he went there. ”To the smokin ruins.” So most likely he found at least one.

      The ”tall women” could be just a metaphor.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Jack Bauer 24,

      I have seen that
      so intrigued

      and from cogmans interview:

      I know you can’t talk future episodes, but do you have any tease for next week’s episode, “The Broken Man”?

      All I can say about next week’s episode is there was a week of shooting a particular sequence/storyline that was my favorite week on set in six seasons of Game of Thrones.

        Quote  Reply

    77. jentario,

      I liked the new chapter. For me, Euron is a much more interesting character than Joffrey or Ramsay. Ramsay’s evilness was over-the-top, but GRRM used him to portray how cruel the world could be in a setting similar to medieval Europe. Joffrey needed to be evil as he was, for the story to progress. Euron is a whole new level of evil, but unlike Joffrey and Ramsay, he is able to fool (relatively) sensible adults into following him. Joffrey’s supporters supported him because he was a Lannister/King, Ramsay’s men are hinted to be Roose’s actually, but Euron was chosen by the Ironborn to be their king, despite other Greyjoy options like Asha and Victarion. You can’t blame them, he made a compelling case (unlike in the show). That girl, Falia Flowers, loves him (but that is comparable to like Sansa’s obsession with Joffrey). People think he will bring them glory and power (Ramsay and Joff’s supporters was interested in riches, girls, even power, but not glory). Euron wants to be worshipped, adored, and obeyed, and most people have no qualms doing that despite knowing how cruel he can be, how wrong his intentions are (wrong by their own standards – personally, I don’t dispute him that there is more truth in magic than all the gods, at least in the world of ASOIAF). And the most terrible thing to me about Euron is, the world we are living in has leaders like that, and that they have numerous followers. They may not have Valyrian armor, but there have always been men like that, since the beginning of history, who inspired men for the wrong reasons and for the wrong cause. What I call wrong is/was not wrong for them. What I think horrible was/is glorious for them, and the vice-versa. Euron is just another reflection of humanity like all other characters in the books. But as of now, he has had too smooth a stride, and his arc is desperately lacking some setbacks.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      On the kinslaying issue, there’s rather a big difference between Euron admitting that to Aeron in private and him boasting about it to the whole Kingsmoot.

      Euron is definitely more out-there as a character, which tracks with the general direction of Westeros: mysticism is in, in a big way, and while there was always a lot of latent Lovecraftian imagery associated with the Ironborn, Euron is bring it all to the surface. This is all coming from GRRM’s roots as a horror writer, and it’s probably only an inkling of what’s to come when the Long Night occurs.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Off-topic about Aeron’s chapter: Some people have claimed on Reddit that GRRM reading Aeron’s chapter shortly after Show Euron’s “terrible” Kingsmoot (which I really liked) is just another indication how much he hates the show. Just like last year, when he released Sansa’s chapter or previous month when he released Dornish chapter. Also, there were some statements that his article about fanfiction was also meant for TV show

      Please take note that I DO NOT agree with this!

        Quote  Reply

    80. Lord Parramandas,

      He wanted to read that chapter for years. It was also chosen by the people there.

      Some people try to hard to push their views on him.
      On his blog, when someone said the show is fanfiction he quickly shut him up, saying he it isn’t and he doesn’t know what fanfiction is.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Dee:
      Lord Parramandas,

      Wow… people think George hates the show? WHy?

      No idea… If he really hated the show, he wouldn’t keep the Emmy award (that he won last year) on each picture.

      Mihnea,

      Yes. I’m well aware of that.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Sergei Walankov:
      Ginevra,

      Turns out you’re right, up to a point (you can get all the ratings data here). The coefficient for the previous episode’s IMDB rating as a predictor of the next episode’s change in ratings on the previous week is 0.4817, suggesting an episode following a 9-rated episode can expect to rate nearly 0.5 higher than one following an 8-rated episode. It’s statistically significant, although the R-squared isn’t much (around 0.2, so the model predicts 20% of the variation).

      Thank you, Sergei! The r and r-squared values are exactly what I was going to do, as well. I’ve never tried multivariable regression before, but I may try to see if some combination of IMDb ratings along with viewer ratings for previous episodes (perhaps only the most recent but it might be better to do the 2 most recent or the 3 most recent) would yield an even better prediction equation. I strongly suspect it would. I’m saving your link – thanks, again – and I hope to be playing later.

        Quote  Reply

    83. I just wish they’d give a better sound for Dragons. Hopefully in the final season atleast they sound like scary beasts-capable of goose bump inducing roars-and not like some rabid,mutated horse.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Dee,

      Because they need confirmation. It would make them feel better.

      He went to the Emmy’s with them, drank and partied with D&D, he called out to people calling the show fanfiction, telling them they are wrong and they don’t know what fanfiction is.

      It is, as he always says, his publisher who insists on the chapters being released. It’s simple logic, they want to show the books and the TV-show is still somewhat different, so it’s worth buying the book.

      He praised D&D, the actors and the entire team numerous times on his blog.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Dee:
      Beer Island,

      Seriously? Loras vs the Mountain?

      Its so obvious whos going to win. Lame.

      And yet Ser Loras is the only one I know of who has previously bested the Mountain. I see where Beer Island is coming from.

        Quote  Reply

    86. aabe:
      Ginevra,

      German version of titles http://www.spoilertv.com/2016/05/game-of-thrones-episode-608-610-titles.html

      I thought these were fake, or simplified translations, because the ‘battle of bastards’ is a really substandard title, IMO. But the summaries could be legit.

      I love that title! Well, I don’t think it’s the best title ever, but I think it is very much in keeping with how they’ve named other episodes.

      As for your spoiler speculation, that’s exactly what I thought, and that one was fairly easy to suss out. Some of the others were more subtle. I’m much, much, much less sure the descriptions are genuine since we have no source.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Dee:
      Ginevra,

      about 30 mins ago I just went into complete geek mode and created a table in excel with the imdb ratings for each episode…. as I was curious to see the ratings (likeability factor) of each episode.

      If you think creating a table with imdb ratings makes you a geek, I wonder what you would think about my Character apperiances list (which is actually handwritten)… It’s a complex graphic list which includes order of apperiance, frequency of apperiance, a numeric list of episodes they appear in, the red number of episodes they appeared before they died and chronological order of deaths (first character to die, second character to die…) With each episode I update it and when the series is over, I will see who has the longest line and whose line does not end with the red number and a cross.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Dee:
      All I can say about next week’s episode is there was a week of shooting a particular sequence/storyline that was my favorite week on set in six seasons of Game of Thrones.

      Ooo, which scene is it? My top guess, based on what we know thus far, is Sansa, Jon, and Davos rallying the Northern Houses. Baby Bear Mormont!!!!

      But the Blackfish looks awesome. The Long Bridge of Volantis looks amazing. I’m severely rooting for Arya to “make a plan” to leave for Westeros and bring some new faces with her. Literally. Just the faces, not the bodies. Or, even better, if she could take the secret to making faces with her. And then we all are hyped for Septon Meribald and the Hound! I hope that this episode will be as amazing as the last two.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Dee,

      It’s a bit spoilery, so much in fact that I’d rather not talk about it here. If it is what I think it is, it should be pretty bloody cool though.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Dee,

      If you are still interested in my Character apperiances list, HERE is my first page.

      The numbers, that go vertical, represent the order of character apperiances. The horizontal blue numbers are the episodes the character appeared in. If you count these numbers, you will get the number of episodes they appeared in. The first red number at the end of the list is the sum of episodes the character appeared before they died. And the last red number in red bracket (with a cross) represents the chronological number of character’s death (the one with 1 was the first one to die). If the character’s number is underlined with red, that means the character is dead.

      It’s an amateur’s work but I have been working on this since season 2. And please note, that I haven’t added the last three episodes yet.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Vlad the Impaler: But why would the more casual viewer expect the rollercoaster to keep on rolling without any kind of setup?

      Indeed, if the show kept knocking things off at the rate that it had in Eps. 4 & 5, they could wrap up the series this year!

      Seriously, at this point in Cable TV series, they probably also are keeping a mind towards future “binge” watching. After the drama of 4 & 5, viewers on their 3rd or 4th hour of watching will appreciate seeing a reloading.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ginevra: I’ve never tried multivariable regression before, but I may try to see if some combination of IMDb ratings along with viewer ratings for previous episodes (perhaps only the most recent but it might be better to do the 2 most recent or the 3 most recent) would yield an even better prediction equation. I strongly suspect it would. I’m saving your link – thanks, again – and I hope to be playing later.

      There are several R-packages that you can get for free that will do multiple regression or even simple principle components analyses. In a lot of ways, time-series analyses would be best for this: and there are R-packages out there for those, too.

      Indeed, I would be surprised if there are not already packages out there specifically designed to gauge the correlations between viewer numbers, viewer ratings from sites like IMDB, subsequent ratings, etc.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Dee: Wow… people think George hates the show? WHy?

      For the exact same reasons that book fans always assume that the original authors hate the adaptations! You would be hard pressed to convince a lot of Harry Potter fans that Rowling would willingly be in the same room with Kloves and Heyman, for example: and yet she went on to work with them again.

      The funny thing is that GRRM keeps explaining on his blog that the books and shows are telling the same stories, and why there is no such thing as “canon”: the right answer to “how many husbands/children/ball gowns did Scarlett O’Hare have?” is: “she never existed in the first place.” It just does not take!

        Quote  Reply

    94. Sean C.:
      ghost of winterfell,

      Yeah, those are definitely fake.An obvious tell for fake spoilers is the tendency to allude to Lady Stoneheart.

      Unrelatedly, the new Aeron chapter (which they somehow managed to transcribe online) is one of the best TWOW excerpts to date, and I didn’t care for his previous POVs in AFFC.

      A allusion to LSH is not a sign of fakery. The show has done this multiple times before, so yet another one wouldn’t mean much either way.

      They gave us a Benjen tease last year and then gave us the real thing last week, for example.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Lord Parramandas,

      Wow… now that is amazing work.. I checked it out and I admire folks who have time to do such ‘homework’ on the shows events or series of events.

      All I can say is WOW!!

        Quote  Reply

    96. Wimsey,

      I’ve seen this reference numerous times regarding Scarlett O’hare… would you be so kind as to explain to me what that is about?

        Quote  Reply

    97. dragonmcmx:
      Lord Parramandas,

      That is pretty sick, though it might be easier if you just did it in MS Excel

      I’m not particulary skilled with it and I don’t want it to look too formal. This is how it began and this is how it will end.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Wimsey: There are several R-packages that you can get for free that will do multiple regression or even simple principle components analyses.In a lot of ways, time-series analyses would be best for this: and there are R-packages out there for those, too.

      Indeed, I would be surprised if there are not already packages out there specifically designed to gauge the correlations between viewer numbers, viewer ratings from sites like IMDB, subsequent ratings, etc.

      Lol… are you both talking HIGH Valyrian by any chance?

        Quote  Reply

    99. Ginevra: And yet Ser Loras is the only one I know of who has previously bested the Mountain.I see where Beer Island is coming from.

      I think Loras vs the Mountain is not unlikely. I can very much imagine Loras learning from Oberyn’s mistake and swiftly striking the fatal blow, only to his horror see the Mountain rise again and keep fighting. The Mountain then beats him in some appropriately gruesome manner and escorts Cersei back to the keep. The trial, however, is declared null and a violation, and Cersei convicted in the eyes of the Gods. They try to arrest her. She chooses violence. Shit burns. Tommen dies.

        Quote  Reply

    100. I was just
      Chad Brick,

      That’s a very good theory crafting. High Sparrow bringing up some by-law she knew nothing about. While her smile turns to anger and rage.

      One thing I was thinking about today was how confident Cercei is in getting a trial by combat, so confident she is sending Jaime away
      ….”I got the mountain”. Every time she has been super confident in something, it has blown up in her face, just even this last episode. The whole army marching on the sept was her idea. I have a great feeling. The High Sparrow may say, when its kinslaying or some shit trial by combat is not applicable by -law 20.1.1 or some crap. They come to try take Cercei she plant the wild fire and say, I choose violence. I mean if she was so confident of winning, why would she resist and the mountain is there so he would have won. So its either the way u put it or some version of the way I put it.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Wimsey: For the exact same reasons that book fans always assume that the original authors hate the adaptations!You would be hard pressed to convince a lot of Harry Potter fans that Rowling would willingly be in the same room with Kloves and Heyman, for example: and yet she went on to work with them again.

      The funny thing is that GRRM keeps explaining on his blog that the books and shows are telling the same stories, and why there is no such thing as “canon”: the right answer to “how many husbands/children/ball gowns did Scarlett O’Hare have?” is: “she never existed in the first place.”It just does not take!

      I agree. Martin loves the show, and to the extent that he disagrees with any specific directorial or writing decisions, he doesn’t take it personally and keeps his mouth shut. He knows the business and knows that thing must be changed from page to screen, and he knows full well that he is in not control of that process.

      As for the same “story”, it depends on how many times you are willing to hit that blur button I discussed the other day. For some characters, you can go all the way to a single tinted brown-grey shade and still not erase the differences. For most characters we are getting the same story, but there are some exceptions and likely more baked into the cake at this point (we’d need TWOW to answer this).

        Quote  Reply

    102. If people think George hates the show they are stupid. IMO he values the show as it introduced more people to his books – including me.

      If people want to see a author who hates any adaptions of his work, just look at Alan Moore with anything he wrote (V for Vendetta, Watchmen).

        Quote  Reply

    103. Wimsey: There are several R-packages that you can get for free that will do multiple regression or even simple principle components analyses.In a lot of ways, time-series analyses would be best for this: and there are R-packages out there for those, too.

      Indeed, I would be surprised if there are not already packages out there specifically designed to gauge the correlations between viewer numbers, viewer ratings from sites like IMDB, subsequent ratings, etc.

      Oh, hell yes! I would never do that by hand. I’m a calculator/software advocate of the highest order. I’m using Minitab (Express for the Mac) since that’s what we use for class and what I’m most familiar with. I, too, thought that time should be a factor, although I don’t think I did it quite like you might be saying, Wimsey. I’ve made a variable for the episode number so that they are synchronous: 11 for S1 E1, 12 for S1 E2, …, 20 for S1 E10, 21 for S2 E1, …, 64 for S6 E4. That’s sort of an odd way of doing it, but I didn’t want a huge gap between seasons (as 110 to 201 would give) and I wanted the first digit to represent the season (well, 9 out of 10 times, it does). But at least I have a little something to mark time.

      I’ve used the IMDb rating as a second variable and the number of viewers in millions as the third variable. I got an r-squared of 94.7%, which kicks ass, but I’m a little leary of my first prediction. I wonder if it is affected by how IMDb numbers are inflated right after episodes air and then fall as time progresses. My equation is:

      # Viewers of Next Episode (Millions) = -4.121 + 0.03517*Episode + 0.5113*IMDb Rating + 0.67430*Viewers (Millions)

      Where S606, “Blood of My Blood,” is the episode I’m trying to predict, the “next episode,” then 65 (“The Door”) is my current episode variable with 9.8 IMDb and 7.89 Mill viewers:

      # Viewers of Next Episode (Millions) = -4.121 + 0.03517*65 + 0.5113*9.8 + 0.67430*7.89 = 8.496.

      Even without Memorial Day, that number seems too high, and I’m sure it is because the 9.8 rating will surely drop some before it levels out. Let’s assume it will fall to 9.6 over the next year, which seems in keeping with how other big episodes have fallen. The very highest don’t fall too much, but they still fall some.

      # Viewers of Next Episode (Millions) = -4.121 + 0.03517*65 + 0.5113*9.6 + 0.67430*7.89 = 8.394.

      So, assuming that, we’d still be breaking the record this week because of last week’s epicness. But we haven’t factored in Memorial Day. As Marko says, that’s a 10 to 17% drop, so we should be looking between 7 and 7.5 million, roughly.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ice Spider: I’ve seen this reference numerous times regarding Scarlett O’hare… would you be so kind as to explain to me what that is about?

      GRRM’s point is that there are no “facts” in stories, and that there are many ways to tell the same story. After all, when one describes a story, one does not mention the details that happen in it: one describes the sum that adds to more than those details.

      Another well-known fantasy writer, J.R.R. Tolkien, actually spent part of his professional career looking at this in the relationship between the evolution of language, cultural moors and stories. He examined not just how phrasings would change to keep up with changes in how language was used (stories always are told in “modern” speech, after all), but how particular plot elements would change as meanings of those things changed. In a way, Tolkien hit on what evolutionary biologists call “The Red Queen” effect (i.e., Van Valen’s Law): to stay the same, things constantly have to change.

      And that is related to GRRM’s point. To tell the same story, the details of storytelling often has to be different. The book screen is a different aspect of what Tolkien studied, being more equivalent to the difference in aquatic terrestrial transitions than to constant changes over time. And therefore there is no real “true answer” to how many children Scarlett O’Hare had: the only truth is in the story for which details such as “how many kids” needs to change if the story is to be preserved.

      For comparison, Tolkien described Lord of the Rings as a story about “Death and Immortality.” GRRM has not described SoI&F specifically, but has said many times that used phrases such as “conflicts of the heart” to describe what he thinks stories should be. That is more or less what is “true” about any story: there is no “canon” regarding balrog wings, the fate of Harry’s wand, or who Robb Stark married! (Indeed, the whole notion of “canon” comes from religion, where people argue about which books of the Bible are “real” or whether the Sunnah should be treated as an appendix of the Quran.)

        Quote  Reply

    105. Wimsey: GRRM’s point is that there are no “facts” in stories, and that there are many ways to tell the same story. After all, when one describes a story, one does not mention the details that happen in it: one describes the sum that adds to more than those details

      That is true, so much so that some argue that are as few as only seven stories in the entire world, and many more argue that there at most a few dozen, and that all works of fiction are just re-tellings of these fundamental stories with different characters and plots overlying them.

      But isn’t this our fundamental disagreement? You seem content as long as the writers get the “story” right, but given that there are so few of them, that doesn’t mean much. “One tragedy, another tragedy, they’re all the same” isn’t much of an argument. Furthermore, when you break it down to individual character arcs, there are not just plot-level changes but what appear to be story-level changes – fundamental changes in the story-level archtype. Stannis stands out as a prime example, as it is very difficult to see how he could get the same “story” in the books. Minor characters like Doran and Loras are getting entirely different stories. Brienne and Jaime have been way off track character-wise from their book equivalents for the last season and a half (the former making more or less the opposite choices her book counterpart made, the latter regressing after having followed his book arc), though with the Riverlands happening maybe their story will get back on track. So no, I disagree that the same “story” is being told. Most of the time it is, but not always.

      In any case, we aren’t watching this because of the “story”, as there are only a few of them and they are fundamentally old-hat that we have seen again and again. We are watching because we love the plotting, characterization, and setting. That is what distinguishes one work from another, and the great from the good from the trash.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Ginevra: Oh, hell yes! I would never do that by hand.

      Gads! I don’t think a genius spider would have enough hands to do those things by hand. (I must have mixed up some metaphor or another badly there.)

      But Minitab? You are almost as much of a dinosaur as I am! 😀 I only recently have become a “hipster” by using R. One thing that I have discovered is that somebody or another body has put together an R-package for just about everything.

      As for what should be a factor, yeah, time could be one, too. Any variable that you suspect might be important should be included. For example, overall TV viewing numbers for the night should be important: if TV viewership is down because of a holiday, or if TV viewership is up because of National Coach Potato Day, then that should have an effect. Whether the episode was leaked could be a binary variable.

        Quote  Reply

    107. I wonder, what are cultural moors?

      Oh, they must be the folks who built the Alhambra.
      Yeah, that’s it.

      😉

        Quote  Reply

    108. Chad Brick,

      Try untangling the Arthurian “canon”; nobody kept any familial details straight from story to story and other writers felt free to throw in their own inventions (the Round Table, Lancelot, etc), but even though the tales were told differently by various different peoples (often with wildly different political ideologies – compare Mallory to the Welsh bards) across centuries, even a millenia, most people can still agree and probably sum up for you what King Arthur’s story is. The upcoming King Arthur movie will probably get every detail about the old stories wrong (or decide just to spin and reinvent them, as is their right) but it’ll still be recognisable to most people as King Arthur’s story.

      There probably were readers back in the time of Chretien de Troyes who read his work and went, “Lancelot? Does this Chretien guy think he’s better than Wace!?”

        Quote  Reply

    109. Apollo,

      What does being to the right or left on the political spectrum have to do with this obviously ridiculous review????????

        Quote  Reply

    110. Dee,

      Dee. I understand. I thought last week’s episode was very good, generally getting the pieces in place and providing the exposition to explain to the casual viewer who some of the characters were and to remind them of certain events such as Walder Frey’s explanation of the Riverlands situation since the Red Wedding, which I found very enjoyable. Dany’s scene seemed out of place but other than that I thoroughly enjoyed the episode and am really looking forward to the next

        Quote  Reply

    111. Dee,

      Big this is true who would the friend turned for be? Jamie or that other “person”. You’d think she’d already run into Jamie given the picture of Pod and Bronn. Seems like it might be trolling based on that but I could easily be wrong

        Quote  Reply

    112. Tyrion Pimpslap,

      But he admitted it after he’d been crowned king and after he’d captured Aeron. Totally different situations. I didn’t have any problem with it on the show as it is clear kinslaying is just like any other killing on it. The gods don’t seem to care

        Quote  Reply

    113. Wimsey,

      Heh, well then you don’t remember very well. In the novels, kinslaying is a huge taboo for the Ironborn. Victarion states that he would have killed Euron had it not been for said taboo. And in this new TWoW chapter, Aeron once again reminds us that “No man is more cursed than the kinslayer”. So yeah, it is a big deal for the Ironborn of the books.

      In the show, as much as I enjoyed the Kingsmoot, it is strange that Euron brags openly about killing Balon, and not one single person has a problem with this, not even Aeron.

      In this chapter, Euron only admits to doing it while speaking with Aeron, in private, and he’s already been chosen as King. Aeron is appalled and reminds us of how taboo it is.

      Very different from proudly announcing it to everyone at the Kingsmoot.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Markus Stark,

      I only read Crows once 11 years ago. My memory of it is largely limited to arguing that: 1) Dorne was worse that the Iron Islands, 2) (but) both were awful, and 3) I didn’t buy the rumors that it was ghost written, but I almost wished that they were true.

      I probably would have long since forgotten the series were it not for the TV show. (I seem to recall that I had almost forgotten it in 2005!)

        Quote  Reply

    115. dragonmcmx,

      Haha love it

      Are you the one who did that great Hodor teaser trailer Parody?

      That ended up being more relevant than any of us realised at the time lol

      As for the ratings, this had some good flashbacks for nut fan dissection and Benjen came back, but overall it did have the feel of a transition/setup episode a bit like E3

      That may make some sense if they knew it would air on a public holiday weekend, taking 10% off puts it at 7.2-7.3 again

      Reckon E7 may be quite something then, though it will be closer to the 7.3-7.5 band, but I expect things to pick up again to about 8 million for E8 and hopefully things really shoot through into the 9 million range for the closing episodes

        Quote  Reply

    116. Darkrobin:
      Dee,

      And Walder Frey is to me a villain you can love to hate.

      Like Joffrey, Walder seems to be having a good time being bad, which make him intriguing. Ramsey is just a zit that needs to be popped.

        Quote  Reply

    117. r-hard,

      Yeah but I still find it hard to believe they didn’ttake one with them when they left valyria

      Tall women is metaphor yes but certainly not metaphor to dany and with what we know from Moqqoro’s vision and dany’s dream ..euron will be the villain dany will face when she comes to westeros ..
      They are setting up this for next season ..can’t wait to see what euron does in the remaining episodes of this season.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Markus Stark,
      Aeron is Crazy Mullah Greyjoy, right? I didn’t think GRRM was adding PoV characters for Winter. Or did he have a 3rd Party PoV in Crows that I just forgot?

      I like the Sansa and Arya chapters that we’ve gotten from Winter. The Sansa chapter in particular was good: we finally were seeing some long overdue evolution of her character. The Theon and Tyrion chapters were pretty good, too.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Markus Stark,

      And this maybe the last time we see him …

      Couple of things confirmed for me in this chapters are

      1- man smiling with grey lips at the prow of the ship dany sees in HOTU is Aeron

      2- the stone beast who breathes shadow fire dany see is Euron

      3- moqorro’s vision about how dany is in danger from a one eyed kraken is Euron ..

      I still think the on chapter and bartistan chapter are best so gar from TWoW not this chapter is bad its equally good but god it was like reading a horror story and all those abuse of his brothers suffered ..
      I actually felt sorry for Aeron

        Quote  Reply

    120. Wimsey,

      Aeron was one of 3 GJ POVs. He was POV for a set up chapter (which was incredibly insanely stupidly boring) were he declares there should be a kingsmoot and then for the kingsmoot itself.

        Quote  Reply

    121. ghost of winterfell,

      I always thought that was true

      based on the shield she remembers in her hall from AFFC. But Bran’s visions from ADWD also imply that Duncan may have spent the night with Old Nan on a visit to Winterfell. So Brienne and Hodor/Walder/Willis are distant cousins…

        Quote  Reply

    122. dragonmcmx,

      Ep 10

      Where it states a queen comes forth. That makes me wonder if the spoiler we thought was legit for Ep 9 where Jon is made KITN was wrong and it’s really Sansa made queen? Or do you think they’re referring to Margaery? Who else could it be?

        Quote  Reply

    123. Gendry – he is still lost at sea rowing. His arms will be massive. Come back Gendry!!! Your heading in the wrong direction – Arya needs you. Love these guys together I hope they marry once he finds shore she will be of age lol

        Quote  Reply

    124. Ginevra: And yet Ser Loras is the only one I know of who has previously bested the Mountain. I see where Beer Island is coming from.

      In jousting, which is completely different than actually fighting. And Loras “cheated.” (He used a mare that was in heat, which distracted the Mountain’s horse.) And it was the Hound who stopped the Mountain from killing Loras right there.

      Also, why would the Faith choose the Mountain as their champion for Loras’s trail by combat? The Mountain is Cersei’s champion. It’s more likely Loras will either do his atonement somehow in a different way.

      I think that in Cersei’s trail by combat, there’s three possibilities. I’ll rank them in order from most likely to least likely.

      1) The Mountain vs. 7 Sparrows (including Lancel).
      2) The Mountain vs. Lancel
      3) The Mountain is killed before the trail by the Sand Snakes
      4) CleganeBowl.

      If there is a trial, the Mountain will win, and this will somehow result in Tommen’s death. This will lead to Cersei finally becoming Mad Queen and she will burn King’s Landing.

        Quote  Reply

    125. SO I went back to looking at the IMDB ratings, and well Blood of my Blood has the second lowest likeability rating right now of all seasons.
      The lowest being S5EP06.

      Second lowest? For real?? I loved the episode I thought it was excellent!

        Quote  Reply

    126. Dee,

      Well it has 8.3/10, that’s not a bad score objectively. It’s higher than my personal score for the episode. And considering that so many episodes are somewhere between 8.4 and 8.9, I don’t think it’s a huge difference. I didn’t go through it all meticulously but I found at least 5 episodes that have 8.4, and that are by no means “bad” episodes.

      I think I know why it didn’t resonate as much as previous episodes though. Most show only viewers and some book readers have professed that Sam and Gilly’s scenes always suck and are the least interesting story, and that Sam is irrelevant. A huge chunk of the episode was devoted to him.
      Many people are sick of Arya. Most people found Dany’s scene to be either weird, out of place, repetitive, cheesy, annoying, unnecessary, stupid, or some combination of those.

      Many people were disappointed with KL as well. Many viewers wanted there to be a big action set-piece, because this confrontation has been teased so much in the trailers and previews, and instead we got Tommen being a dweeb. Again.

      Some also didn’t care about Benjen and found his return in the nick of time to be too convenient.

      And finally, last but not least, this is the first episode in the history of the show that has neither Tyrion nor Jon Snow. Which is kind of insane when you think about it.

      Now personally my score is a 7.5, but for entirely different reasons, and I don’t agree with any of the criticisms I mentioned, but those are some of the things people have been saying, and I think the lack of both Tyrion and Jon, especially with it being a first for the show, gave the episode a very different feel to some.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Dee,

      I hope not .. have to be honest iam getting scared what’s going to happen next with dany .

      He is more worse than Ramsey and joffery combined together ..and of course many believe that dany is above all of them in big bad league

      In the HoTU dany gets a prophecy about bride of fire and three visions with first being she riding her horse on her wedding night .,second being a man tied to a prow of the ship smiling sadly ( now this man is aeron grryjoy ) and third being blue rose from the wall

      So based on this ..Its very likely dany may end up married to him but I think they have set up euron to be the one dany must afraid of in the books..

      And even those who hate dany with passion must admit dany will never do or agree with what euron is doing in the released chapter…

        Quote  Reply

    128. Markus Stark,

      Yeah, you do make some good points.
      Though I disagree with all that, as I loved the episode, I can see where you are coming from.
      I was a little shocked to see its in the least liked category at this time.

      I mean I found the return of Walder Frey to be huge. The Red Wedding had a massive effect on the fandom and he hasn’t been seen since then. I expected that would spark a lot of interest.

      Same with Benjen’s return, Arya retrieving needle, and Bran’s visions.

      I can see how people thought the KL stuff was lame, but I was actually shocked and I loved that sequence, and especially Jamie in the throne room, with the scene EXACTLY as Barristan Selmy’s back in season 1. I don’t think the casual viewer noticed or cared.

      Anyway, the majority of the fandom want action and death in every episode, and it annoys the f*ck out of me lol.

      Okay I am done ranting about this LOL

      for now.

        Quote  Reply

    129. Markus Stark,

      Ah, I did not remember who was the PoV. Part of the reason why Crows seemed so different from the prior books was that GRRM resorted to a lot of 3rd party PoVs to rapidly develop new protagonists. I remember Asha/Yara being told repeatedly that the Iron Born would never elect a Queen, and I remembered that “Mollusc Mullah” was one of them: but I did not remember it coming from his PoV.

      I was not impressed with the new Aeron chapter. It seems like more gratuitous world-building. As much as I love Tolkien (a guilty pleasure but a pleasure nonetheless), that is the only world-building I ever have enjoyed. Perhaps it is like a chocolate allergy or something!

      Inded, my wife (a former book fan but current show fan) and I have been disagreeing about what this season bodes for the Winter book. My thought is that the truth about the Walkers (which is much more SciFi than fantasy) and other things showing the debunking of myths bodes well for the book. Her thought is that GRRM will drown the book in world building in order to provide readers with something “new” that the show has eschewed.

      Of course, we could both be correct: a cake made with first rate flour and topped with gourmet icing might still have a lot of sawdust and paste in it! I am hoping that they are separate layers rather than mixed. I can always just skip particular chapters, after all!

        Quote  Reply

    130. Dee,

      No, I agree with you. I was bringing up the criticisms I’ve heard people toss around, but I don’t agree with them. My reasons for not putting the episode in my favorites is more about how much I liked the others than it is about disliking this one. Because I didn’t dislike it, I thought it was quite good.

      The fact that you appreciate Walder Frey’s return and Arya retrieving Needle as much as you do shows that you’re a huge fan, and those things were awesome to me too. I just think the average viewer didn’t care that much. Many people also barely remembered Edmure and the Blackfish, so the whole Riverlands set up didn’t mean much to them.

      And like you say, the casuals judge episodes by how many people die, how many breasts they see, and how much blood is split.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Dee,

      It is not so much that the fandom wants it set on 11 every episode: it is more that after an “11” episode, setup is a letdown.

      My bet is that last week’s episode will be easier to appreciate if binge-watching: after the intensity of the prior 2 hours, a respite will seem in order.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Josh L.: In jousting, which is completely different than actually fighting.And Loras “cheated.”(He used a mare that was in heat, which distracted the Mountain’s horse.)And it was the Hound who stopped the Mountain from killing Loras right there.

      Also, why would the Faith choose the Mountain as their champion for Loras’s trail by combat?The Mountain is Cersei’s champion.It’s more likely Loras will either do his atonement somehow in a different way.

      I think that in Cersei’s trail by combat, there’s three possibilities.I’ll rank them in order from most likely to least likely.

      1) The Mountain vs. 7 Sparrows (including Lancel).
      2) The Mountain vs. Lancel
      3) The Mountain is killed before the trail by the Sand Snakes
      4) CleganeBowl.

      If there is a trial, the Mountain will win, and this will somehow result in Tommen’s death.This will lead to Cersei finally becoming Mad Queen and she will burn King’s Landing.

      I was just saying there was some merit to Loras, whom others were easily dismissing. And I think it was Cersei’s trial they were hypothesizing about: Ser Loras would atone by being the faith’s champion in Cersei’s trial by combat. I’m not sure I buy that theory, especially given Loras’s current physical condition and state of mind, but that was how I read the theory. Plus, the cheating bit could equally apply to hands-on fighting, as well. The Viper found a way to cheat.

        Quote  Reply

    133. Markus Stark,

      Thank you 🙂 I am a huge fan.
      I had Red Wedding feels when I saw Walder. I mean come on people! TOUGH CROWD.

      Hahaha, yeah.. I had a few ask me who the black fish was, so I had to google and send pics and remind them that he went to pee right before red wedding massacre lol!

      Wimsey,
      Another good point as well. I am thinking that from here on out (esp episodes 9 and 10) will have people going wild.

        Quote  Reply

    134. Josh L.: In jousting, which is completely different than actually fighting.And Loras “cheated.”(He used a mare that was in heat, which distracted the Mountain’s horse.)And it was the Hound who stopped the Mountain from killing Loras right there.

      Also, why would the Faith choose the Mountain as their champion for Loras’s trail by combat?The Mountain is Cersei’s champion.It’s more likely Loras will either do his atonement somehow in a different way.

      I think that in Cersei’s trail by combat, there’s three possibilities.I’ll rank them in order from most likely to least likely.

      1) The Mountain vs. 7 Sparrows (including Lancel).
      2) The Mountain vs. Lancel
      3) The Mountain is killed before the trail by the Sand Snakes
      4) CleganeBowl.

      If there is a trial, the Mountain will win, and this will somehow result in Tommen’s death.This will lead to Cersei finally becoming Mad Queen and she will burn King’s Landing.

      Yes, and book-Brienne “cheated” vs book-Loras. “canon” doesn’t mean much ’round here.

      Let’s make a bet – I win if it is Mountain vs Loras. You win if it is your #1, 2, or 4. Your number three might happen in the case that no trial occurs and Dorne then mucks things up, so I do not deem it improbable. However, I doubt the planned trial in that case matches your 1, 2 or 4.

      The trailer pretty much contradicts the trial involving Lancel. He and his group appear on the way to arrest or detain Cersei. Since she is confident she would win a trial, she wouldn’t “choose violence” to avoid it. Rather, this is likely that this scene occurs after she has already lost. How would she lose, yet the Mountain “live”? Perhaps by his undeadtosity being exposed during the fight, basically resulting in a Loras death but a Loras win via disqualification.

      Cersei responds with “violence” and a whole lot of fire. Tyrells die. So does Tommen. Cersei fulfills her own prophecy out of abject stupidity and blindness. The more I thought about it today, the more I like the idea that Tommen kills himself after Margaery dies in the flames. Having Tommen make such a choice is more powerful a blow to Cersei than any outside source killing him, in my opinion.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Dee

      Yeah I think we may know about his true colors in the last episode

      But there is another vision like I mentioned in my earlier post about dany being slayer of lies and euron is one of them so I think she will overcome him .

      And lastly there is third vision with blue flower at the wall…so if euron do marry dany than jon will too in the end .

        Quote  Reply

    136. Dee:
      SO I went back to looking at the IMDB ratings, and well Blood of my Blood has the second lowest likeability rating right now of all seasons.
      The lowest being S5EP06.

      Second lowest? For real?? I loved the episode I thought it was excellent!

      That’s insane! It was 9.7 when GraphTV pulled it on Monday, as they always do. How can IMDb have dropped from 9.7 to 8.3 in less than 48 hours? High scoring episodes that have a 9.7 or more by the next morning never drop that far, and certainly not in less than 48 hours.

      Was GraphTV wrong? I didn’t actually check IMDb after the episode aired Sunday. Or did only the Sullied rate on Sunday night/Monday morning with the Unsullied ratings that came later dropping the score significantly?

      I did read the Unsullied thread and comments yesterday, and it was like a different world. Yes, there were a couple who called that episode excellent, including Dee and Sou. There might have been one or two beyond Dee and Sou, but most used the word “good” or its equivalent rather than words that go well beyond good. There was very little gushing to be had, very little analysis and speculation and ooo-ing and ahhhh-ing over the flashbacks, over Benjen, over Horn Hill in all its glory, and over the humongous Benjen/Coldhands revelations and what that means for the show versus the books.

      Instead, the entire discussion seemed to revolve around how poor the last Dany scene was – with some people defending the scene and some people hating the scene. We had a wee bit of that, too, in the Sullied discussion, but that far from dominated the conversation and tone of the discussion.

      And really, this is exactly what I expected. The things that most of the Sullied were gushing over – and we were well and truly gushing with several posters not just saying “excellent” but saying “the best motherfucking episode I’ve ever seen” and and with the vast majority saying truly excellent – were either Sullied things or were tidbits for the truly freaking obsessive: those obsessed enough to read 5000 pages.

      So there is definitely a divide in this episode between the truly fanatical and the more “casual fan,” to use the common oxymoron. And I can understand that divide, even if I cannot fathom why anyone would be casual about GoT.

      Still, 8.3 puts the episode below Red Woman and, as Dee said, every other episode except for UUU. Even for the casual fan, that can’t be right, right?

        Quote  Reply

    137. Ginevra,

      Well it was 8.4 yesterday when I told you that I made a little table to compare to other episodes.
      So today dropped to 8.3

      That, again, is a very interesting argument about sullied vs unsullied.
      But then you have unsullied like me that do appreciate every single thing in the show (its rare).

      Like I had said earlier. Didn’t expect that, but then you referenced a strong relationship between a WOW epi and followed by a quieter one.

        Quote  Reply

    138. dragonbringer:
      Dee

      And lastly there is third vision with blue flower at the wall…so if euron do marry dany than jon will too in the end .

      Cool! It’s about damn time polygamy worked for women, too.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Ginevra: Cool!It’s about damn time polygamy worked for women, too.

      Sansa is already playing that game fairly well, imho. And Marg is definitely the black widow of the game. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    140. Joffreysbleedingeyes:
      Ginevra,

      GraphTV was/is based on 68 votes so far. Now there somewhere between 6000 and 8000.

      That’s odd, too, because I thought there were at least that many votes before the episode aired. Do you remember, Dee? GraphTV must have pulled the numbers sometime on Sunday because there’s no way there were only 68 on Monday. But they almost always wait until Monday.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Ginevra,

      Actually.. on Sunday, there was 300 votes already before the episode aired, and I asked people here how/ why and they said voting opens the day the episode will air.

      So, graphTV did something weirdly! LOL

        Quote  Reply

    142. Hodors Bastard: Sansa is already playing that game fairly well, imho. And Marg is definitely the black widow of the game. ?

      Sansa didn’t really get much benefits from either marriage, though, did she? I reckon there wouldn’t be many benefits from Euron, either. Even just the name. Can you imagine, the throws of passion: “Urine, Urine, Urine!”

        Quote  Reply

    143. Ginevra: I reckon there wouldn’t be many benefits from Euron, either. Even just the name. Can you imagine, the throws of passion: “Urine, Urine, Urine!”

      Based on the Aeron chapter that GRRM read this past weekend at Balticon, you probably aren’t too far from Euron’s taste and preferences. But…hey…after Drogo and Daario, Dany may have fun with those eccentricities. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    144. Chad Brick: Cersei responds with “violence” and a whole lot of fire. Tyrells die. So does Tommen. Cersei fulfills he

      Agreed, as much as it pains me, the Tyrell’s are toast. The QoTs words to Cersei in the teaser for next week is certainly foreshadowing of all of this too.

        Quote  Reply

    145. dragonbringer,

      Nopity no nope. I’d like Jon with Margaery if he’s gonna hook up with anyone. I can’t put my finger on why I don’t see Jon and Dany meshing but I just don’t. Personalities don’t fit. I prefer to see him with someone who’s gentle, nurturing, clever, and down to earth. Your girl can’t be that. She’s powerful conqueror.

        Quote  Reply

    146. Dee:
      ygritte,

      I don’t think Jon is going to end up with anyone

      Love stories are at a minimal in this show

      I agree. Ygritte was his perfect match. Unless someone else is unexpectedly introduced there isn’t another.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Finally something you and me can agree on, i don’t want Jon with Dany either. I don’t think he ends up with anyone at all. Same goes for Sansa

      Edit : this was meant for ygritte, i forgot to hit the reply button.

        Quote  Reply

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