Game of Thrones Post-Mortem of “The Winds of Winter”

Cersei

The women reigned in last night’s massive season finale of Game of Thrones. In today’s post-mortem, we dig deeper into the episode with the help of cast interviews and bonus features. There are spoilers galore ahead, as we hear from Lena Headey, Natalie Dormer, Emilia Clarke, and many more on the world-changing events of “The Winds of Winter.”

Cersei shocked everyone by claiming the Iron Throne in the season finale after the suicide of her son the king. Post-finale, Entertainment Weekly talks to Lena Headey about the twists and turns of the episode.

As for Cersei’s motivation in taking the throne, the actress says, “I think part of what happened to her, is a sense of ‘never again will anybody do anything to me that I don’t want to happen.’ This is the end of that.”

But we probably shouldn’t get too comfortable with the notion of Queen Cersei reigning supreme. Even Headey doesn’t think she’s long for the throne. When asked by EW for her prediction, she admits it’s unlikely. “No. Surely not!” she says. “Not a chance in hell. It’s a moment of punctuation in the madness.”

The episode concluded with Daenerys headed for Westeros, with a fleet of ships and Tyrion by her side. The prospect of a reunion with Cersei’s little brother is something Headey is up for. “I’m as excited as anyone to get Cersei and Tyrion back together. It just works. Those two characters are so interesting because there’s so much hate, yet slight respect too. They’d kill each other if ever given the chance.”

There’s more with the new queen at EW, so check out the complete interview over there!

Natalie Dormer

Natalie Dormer discusses her big episode with Harper’s Bazaar today, in a long, personal interview with the magazine. She addresses Margaery’s departure, going up against Cersei and how the High Sparrow played into it.

It seemed an exciting, fitting way to depart. Margaery’s been battling Cersei for the last however many years and she ends up dying on the show not because she didn’t beat Cersei, but because she trusted that someone else—the Sparrow—was handling her. She had the reins taken away from her, from being in control of the situation; the High Sparrow took the reins and it proves that he underestimated Cersei in a way that Margaery never would have. There’s a moment before Margaery and the High Sparrow die when they look at each other and Margaery realizes that Cersei has outplayed him and she’s gonna die because of that. There’s this moment that Jonathan Pryce gives as well; this look on his face when he realizes he’s been outplayed by Cersei. Margaery is a fatality of the High Sparrow underestimating Cersei.

Dormer predicts fans’ reactions to the finale and her fiery death:

I’m sure everyone will be sad. I’d like to think that people will be sad to see the Tyrells unjustly blown to smithereens! [Laughs] As an audience member you spend so much time with these characters, you get to know them very well and to have them so irreverently snatched from you and killed is really harsh. But that’s what real life is and that’s why Game of Thrones is the powerhouse that it is. It’s not scared to take away some of your favorite characters. It’s always been brave, this show.

In the article, Natalie discusses her habit of trying to avoid knowing what happens in storylines other than her own, and she says she didn’t even know the Hound was back until she ran into Rory McCann in the makeup trailer.

Dormer says much more in her in-depth profile at Harper’s Bazaar so be sure to check that one out.

Discussing her exit with EW, Natalie explains she actually had wanted to check out of Game of Thrones earlier, because of other work.

I requested [while making season 5 that showrunners David Benioff and Dan Weiss] release me from working on the show earlier than usual so I could do another project, and they ended up phoning me — and that was The Call. But I got it six months ahead of normal. They were like, “We weren’t going to tell you this for a few more months, but we’re not going to release you now, so you can’t do that job you really want to do and we’re really sorry about that. But on the bright side, we are going to release you proper in the not-so-distant future.” It was good news, bad news — no you can’t do this, but don’t worry, you’re going to have lots more opportunities very soon.


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Emilia Clarke checks in with Entertainment Weekly as well, and assesses where Daenerys stands after her breathtaking departure from Meereen.

I’ve got ships, I’ve got manpower, I’ve got dragons that breath fire, and I apparently cannot be killed. I don’t even have an attractive man who wants to take his shirt off anywhere near me now, so there are no distractions. Though we have yet to see [Peter Dinklage] without his clothes on. The only thing missing is Jorah. He’s gotta come back. I said I can’t rule the Seven Kingdoms without him … But as with Game of Thrones, you know when your character is looking good, that’s when you know you’re not safe. Because [the writers are] all, “Oh, do you like her? We’ll kill her!

On the idea of Dany meeting up (and hooking up?) with Jon Snow, Emilia says she doesn’t know.

Those rumors have never been substantiated within the Game of Thrones circle. It’s never been said. So I don’t know. I could kill him. He could kill me. He could be dead before we even meet. I could be dead before we even meet. Arya could kill us both! You never know! Anything’s possible. All I know is winter is coming … and I’m bringing the heat!


GOT610_121515_HS__DSC8019[1]Another young woman who knocked it out of the park in “The Winds of Winter” was Bella Ramsey, who has been stealing scenes handily in season 6 as Lyanna Mormont.

“From the moment she came in, she was on it: she was professional, and she was just brilliant,” Liam Cunningham says while speaking with The Hollywood Reporter. “There’s an old adage about how actors should never work with children or animals, but that’s B.S. When kids are as good as this young lady is, it’s a joy to play opposite. She was absolutely amazing. When somebody comes in and is that good, it makes your job that much easier.”

The actor further explains what he thinks his character Davos sees in the 10 year old Lady of Bear Island. “I think he appreciates the nobility of Lyanna. She’s a leader. He likes decent leaders. Jon is one, and Stannis was, for a long time. You can tell Lyanna Mormont has fantastic leadership qualities, and has a good and decent core. It’s what he thinks the world needs: decency, honesty and a sense of fair play.”

As for Lyanna Mormont’s future on the show, that’s unclear. Cunningham says to THR, “We don’t know what’s coming in the next season or if she’ll be part of whatever happens next; we just don’t know.”

Fingers crossed we’ll see more of Lady Mormont as there’s more work to be done in the North in season 7!


In the season finale edition of Inside the Episode, D.B. Weiss and David Benioff discuss the wildfire plot, Tommen’s suicide, Cersei’s big move, Jon and Sansa’s conflict, the King in the North scene, Arya’s dark path, Tyrion the Hand, and Daenerys heading home to Westeros.

Kit Harington, Sophie Turner and Liam Cunningham discuss the Stark dynamic and the King in the North scene from last night’s episode.



Maisie Williams
explains why Arya came for Walder Frey first when she returned to Westeros and talks about his bloody death in the finale.

We go inside the last moments of the characters in the sept in this video, see the creation of the wildfire explosion that annihilated so many characters in the season finale. Benioff and Weiss, Bryan Cogman, Dave Hill, director Miguel Sapochnik, Lena Headey, Natalie Dormer, Eugene Simon, Jonathan Pryce and more share their thoughts:

Today, we also have our last episode of “The Game Revealed” for the season, going behind the making of “Battle of the Bastards” and “The Winds of Winter.” The video includes interview segments with director Miguel Sapochnik, Benioff and Weiss (who penned both episodes), Kit Harington, Iwan Rheon, Natalie Dormer, Finn Jones, Emilia Clarke, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau and more. The cast and crew discuss the creation of the Battle of the Bastards, Ramsay and Jon’s brawl, Ramsay’s death-by-dog, the explosion of the sept of Baelor, mutilating Loras, the conclusion of the Tower of Joy, the King in the North, the terrifying prospect of Cersei as queen, the fiery Battle for Meereen, and Daenerys’ new armada closing out the season.

215 responses

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    1. Do we think the finale broke the rating record? Looking forward to seeing the overnight rating tomorrow.

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    2. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      On, this. I won’t go into a debate at all, I simply don’t want to engage in this but..
      Was re-watching the episode and it was clear that there were Martell ships there, and Varys did say when he left, that he goes to get ships… So he came with those.

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    3. One more that was just great this season – Sue the Fury and the crew at WoTW. Thanks for everything – looking forward to filming news over the off season. You guys are awesome!

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    4. The only problem I have with this episode is that Missandei is still always wearing the same damn thing!

      Seriously, she’s not here to look good for me…but she’s the most beautiful woman on the show and she gets no love from the wardrobe department!

      Bah!

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    5. Lena Headey is not exactly interested in valonqar prophecies that never made it into the show. It’s just her opinion.

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    6. I don’t want Jaime to kill Cersei. I want him to go find Brienne and die fighting to save the realm from the Long Night.
      He’s so much better when he’s not in KL or connected to her.
      A part of me wished he’d just looked at her, turned and walked away. But…at least it seems like he finally sees who she really is and he’s not a fan.

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    7. it sounds like Sansa is going to betray Jon, even Liam Cunningham mentions in the behind the episode video that Sansa isnt that happy that jon has become king of the north:/ Dont want to see the starks fighting:/

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    8. Mihnea,

      Oh it didn’t bother me really. It doesnt affect the narrative. However, which scene came first, Jaime arriving to see the smoking ruins or Olenna visiting with Ellara discussing her familys death? Again it doesnt affect the narrative but some of the time lines are a bit wonky.

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    9. Jack Bauer 24:
      Cersei says it has to be Arya or Tyrion that kills her. Not Jaime…

      And Ramsay wanted a dragon to kill him, but that didnt happen either.

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    10. RG:

      He’s so much better when he’s not in KL or connected to her.
      A part of me wished he’d just looked at her, turned and walked away. But…at least it seems like he finally sees who she really is and he’s not a fan.

      That’s part of my problem with Jaime. Never been a fan really but pretty much all of Season 5 and this season, it’s been “Cersei this” and “Cersei that”.
      His development hit the breaks for 2 seasons!
      He said it himself, anyone who isn’t the two of them are the enemy. Nobody matters except for them. He was singing Cersei’s song, without wavering, since he arrived back at Kings Landing. Then we see him interact with someone we know he respects and cares for that isn’t Cersei and it’s like, see, he can be good guy. Sort of.
      The problem now, at least from where I sit, is that he may be disgusted by what he sees in Cersei but it’s exactly what he was championing before he left for Riverrun.
      Okay…not mass carnage obviously, but punishing their enemies, yes.
      I wish I remembered all the dialogue from after Myrcella died but if I recall correctly, Jaime was adamant about showing everyone that you don’t fuck with a Lannister. That you make those who do pay. That is what Cersei did.
      He championed it and I think Cersei will throw that at him.

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    11. I have to say, I was really emotional losing Marg. She would’ve been a good Queen I think.

      Her only real “flaw” was her ambition and her desire to make better for her house – which on this show, can that really be considered a flaw?

      But she was completely supportive of Renly and Loras. She loved her brother and her family. She WAS decent to the poor, even if it was for show. She was genuinely kind to Sansa, and she recognized Joffrey for what he was.

      And in the end, she just knew what was coming, and that was actually quite heartbreaking. Her one undoing is not understanding how truly deranged Cersei actually is.

      RIP House Tyrell. All in all, you were a really decent lot who ran into the maddest Queen of all. I’m glad Olenna remains.

      Regarding Emilia: I really have mixed feelings on what this show is doing. To have Dany – mother of fucking dragons, leader of the Dothraki and Unsullied, with the Greyjoy fleet – talk about having to make a political marriage to rule??? It’s irritating AF.

      And yet, they’ve made her seem so invincible that the only impediment to her IS that the North doesn’t bend. And instead of flying to Winterfell and burning it down, Tyrion advises a political marriage.

      I don’t know that I’ll Jon/Dany one bit, whatever way they do it.

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    12. What a one-two punch. In my eyes, definitely the 2 best companion episodes of the whole series. I enjoyed every scene last night. I didn’t even mind the Daario good-bye or the Benjen good-bye as they were both necessary.

      I would say my one very minor nitpick was Manderly. They should have just named him something else because he was nothing like the character in the books, aside from stature. But again, that’s just a nitpick, as the episode was just over the top awesome to me.

      Season 7 speculation is occupying my mind all day today! Arya has to find out her brother is now King in the North and her family has reclaimed their home. She has to be heading home, right? I know she’s got her list but I do think family will take precedence. To see her, Jon and Sansa reunited will be amazing.

      I know D&D say they stay off the internet but I do hope they’ve been privy to how popular Lyanna Mormont has become and find a way to integrate her into the show next year. Small doses are fine. She has become my favorite tertiary character and I’d love to see more of her. Perhaps some scenes with her cousin Jorah…

      As a whole, I really loved this season. Some very small nitpicks but nobody’s perfect. As an LSH fan, I am happy that the very outside chance of her appearing in the show has been put to rest. It was very stressful for 3 full seasons!

      My main wishes for next season: Unified Starks (please stahp with the tensions), Jaime going HAM on Cersei and reuniting with Brienne, Bran being able to communicate with his family somehow or sending Meera to do so, Euron filling the villain vacuum formidably and more Direwolves please!

      My main questions for next season: How does Arya play into the endgame, once her list is complete? Where does Melisandre go from here? To Dany? To Cersei? Why is the Lord of Light not done with Sandor Clegane? Will we see the WW at all before they hit The Wall? Will Bran continue to see into the past or will it mostly be present/future from here on out since he saw the main thing he needed to see in the past?

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    13. Didn’t Benioff and Weiss say they this season wouldn’t spoil the books a few months back lol?

      Jon Snow lives, R+L=J, White Walker origin, Hold the Door, Hound is back, Dany sails for Westeros…lol!

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    14. I’m already getting itchy for filming news. The withdrawal from this season is going to be brutal because I have no idea what’s going to happen this season. A lot of what happened this season we all guessed from hints in the books. What will happen now though? No clue!

      How long will Cersei sit on the throne? I’m guessing no one is going to mount a challenge to her until Dany gets there. Are they going to get straight to the point and bring Dany there right away? Or will there be detours? What kind of horrors will Cersei visit on King’s Landing in the meantime? Will Dany’s fleet just kind of roll up on KL without warning or is word going to reach Cersei that it approaches.

      Benjen talking about the wall having magic built into was interesting. I could certainly be wrong, but I don’t think the show has mentioned that before although it’s been brought up in the books several times. Does the wall even need to literally collapse for the WW to invade or does something that breaks the spells protecting the wall just need to occur?

      I had really, really hoped to see the

      obsidian candle

      at the Citadel. What will Sam find out at the Citadel? Do the maesters have an agenda of their own? Most certainly. But what is it? Do they have info about the WW? There’s got to be some reason – storywise- that he’s there and it’s something I’ve been wanting to know for awhile.

      What’s going to happen in the Riverlands? There’ll have to be some infighting between the remaining Freys. Will Edmure use that to take back Riverrun or is he too wimpy?

      maybe we’ll finally get a version of weasel soup and Arya will do something to take back Riverrun for him

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    15. taim,

      And that’s exactly why it’s not going to happen.Do you know these people they wouldn’t give away a plot point like that.It’s for #drama and for people to talk during the off season.All the inside episode stuff is david and dan being like be worried about arya be worried about jon be worried about sansa.They left at such a high point for the starks they need to keep people in their toes lol

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    16. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
      Mihnea,

      Oh it didn’t bother me really. It doesnt affect the narrative. However, which scene came first, Jaime arriving to see the smoking ruins or Olenna visiting with Ellara discussing her familys death? Again it doesnt affect the narrative but some of the time lines are a bit wonky.

      Why would it matter? The Jaime and Dany storylines are separate.

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    17. weirwoodtreehugger: I’m already getting itchy for filming news. The withdrawal from this season is going to be brutal because I have no idea what’s going to happen this season. A lot of what happened this season we all guessed from hints in the books. What will happen now though? No clue!

      I actually think this offseason will be easier than last for me, considering my man Jon is in a good place (semi). I am so happy about that.

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    18. Sue, mods & all watchers – we have to start a campaign to get these last two episodes shown on IMAX screens some time this winter …

      The cinematography, the music, the action … everything about these last two episodes were epic and cinematic beyond anyone’s expectations!!

      Put the tickets on sale now !!

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    19. Nadia:
      To have Dany – mother of fucking dragons, leader of the Dothraki and Unsullied, with the Greyjoy fleet – talk about having to make a political marriage to rule??? It’s irritating AF.

      And yet, they’ve made her seem so invincible that the only impediment to her IS that the North doesn’t bend. And instead of flying to Winterfell and burning it down, Tyrion advises a political marriage.

      I don’t know that I’ll Jon/Dany one bit, whatever way they do it.

      I think if D&D decide to go there, we won’t get an actual, spoken out loud reveal that Rhaegar is his father. It will be implied, sure, but the mentions will stop fairly quickly so not to confuse or turn-off the more “casual” fan.
      I am talking the fan who hasn’t read the books and isn’t scouring the internet for spoilers/theories, which is probably a healthy portion.
      I don’t ship it and won’t ship it, this show has already filled my incest quota for life, but if the knowledge of Aunt Dany marrying her darling nephew is hit over the head too much, I think it will be a definite turn-off. No matter how hot the participants are.

      Nobody tunes in because the sib-love between Cersei and Jaime is “relationship goals” worthy.

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    20. Can we just cut the chase and give the emmy for best supporting actress to Bella Ramsay. The true Queen in the North!

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    21. I still think Sophie’s trying too hard for a feminist reading of her character and her relationship with Jon’s. In this episode, Jon seems quite willing to credit her role – he clearly states that she made the difference in winning the battle, which he had lost to that point – and defer to her, even to the extent of giving her the lord’s chambers. Deep down, he didn’t really seem to want the job, and it came as a real surprise to him when it happened.

      The script writers just seemed to want to put in a little dramatic tension between the characters, and she seems too eager to read too much into it.

      Fantastic episode by Sopochnik, though. Well done.

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    22. My #1 question –

      How long will Bran stay beyond the Wall? Will he go to the Wall? When/will he go to Winterfell and meet Jon???

      I call it now, Jon Snow is going to be completely devastated at finding out he is not Ned Stark’s son. He might be a bastard, but he has felt deeply being Ned’s son, and you can tell it’s the thing he is most proud of in the world. Being Rhaegar’s son – being the son of the prince of Westeros (or King when he died) – is not going to make him happy. I think he needs Bran there at his side for it.

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    23. My question is: what happened to Ghost? I don’t think we’ve seen him since Jon left the Wall. Is he with him or was he left behind for some reason?

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    24. Kells,

      It’s just 7 episodes Miguel, sleep a lot, drink a lot of Vitamin C, and get down to it!!! 😉 😉 😉

      Then again, Jack Bender was brilliant with The Door.

      GOT gets amazing directors, but the Cogman/D&D/Sapochnik end of season alliance is just beyond compare.

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    25. Laura,

      It seems likely that Melisandre, the BWB, Brienne, and Arya are all due to meet each other in the Riverlands and possibly head north. Mel has been exiled, but she’s a religious fanatic. She won’t mind the risk of execution if she thinks staying in the fight against the WW is what the Lord of Light wants from her. I’m not sure how she’d be executed though. It was pretty well established back in her introduction scene that she’s not very killable.

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    26. weirwoodtreehugger:

      What’s going to happen in the Riverlands?There’ll have to be some infighting between the remaining Freys.Will Edmure use that to take back Riverrun or is he too wimpy?

      I prefer going with wimpy and leaving Edmure right were he is. He gave up his home, his Uncle, his army and his honor for a child he’s never seen, and a Frey wife he’s spent one night with. A FREY, for goodness sake. You’d think he wouldn’t give two shits about his Frey “wife” or their 1/2 Frey spawn after they massacred his family and his people, and kept him in a dark, dank cell for years. Years of stewing about all of that would seem to wipe any lingering paternal feelings for an unseen 1/2 Frey child clean off the map. For all he knows, the “wife” was in on it too. Go figure.

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    27. I may be in the minority, but I don’t think Arya is going home just yet. For some reason, I think Bran reunites with Jon and Sansa way before. Arya might be the most “Stark” of the kids who never actually makes it home.

      🙁

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    28. Well we know Podeswa is directing at least one episode next season. If the season is 7 episodes, I’d like to see them give 2 episodes to Sapochnik, 2 to Bender, 1 to Podeswa and then get a new person for the other one. I’d like to see them get another woman director. Rachel Talalay did a wonderful job with her Doctor Who episodes last year and received lots of accolades and I think she would be an excellent choice.

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    29. Freshmaker:
      My question is:what happened to Ghost?I don’t think we’ve seen him since Jon left the Wall.Is he with him or was he left behind for some reason?

      Similarly asked questions are usually met with some form of “get over it”, or “it’s too expensive”, or “it doesn’t matter to the overall plot”, to “oohhh, more dragons dipping wings in the water just for a cool visual, please!”.

      The White Wolf, without the stunning visual of his white wolf lying right there in front of the table in front of all those Lords. Unella says, “Shame”

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    30. The Starks made me so damn emotional – like tears in my eyes, lump in my throat – emotional so many times.

      The TOJ obviously, when Ned looks at this little baby. Robert Aramayo just nails that. And they found a little baby that looks as world weary as Jon Snow?? Just tears.

      Lyanna fucking Mormont. I just cheered out loud, over and over, “yes yes yes yes.” When the music starts playing when she says “The North Remembers” and Sansa smiles and I just cry.

      I said over and over how much I wanted Robett Glover to get another scene. Tim McInnerny is just a fantastic actor and it was a crime to think he only gets one scene, and he captured that sense of betrayal the North felt so spot on. When he declares Jon King in the North…the end, me.

      And last, when Jon and Sansa smile and laugh at Winter is Here. AWESOME. We’ve heard everyone warn about winter over and over, it’s this ominous cloud that hangs over the whole series, from episode one we hear “winter is coming” and we’re made to fear it. And then Winter comes when the Starks are back in Winterfell and there’s pure joy there. It’s an amazing amazing amazing moment. A Time for Wolves indeed.

      <3 <3 <3

      I hate your buzz killing, Kit/Sophie/Liam/David, I really do.

      Btw, I always thought it was way way way too soon for the Wall to fall, and I think we see there's a lot of Westeros story left to be told. I think the conflict in the North in part will be about how to both lead the North AND prepare for war – the latter will be Jon's concern, but I think Sansa might disagree with his decisions regarding the former. And I wonder if Tyrion proposes Dany marry Jon in this season, what Sansa will make of it.

      The big variable is when/will Bran make it to Winterfell.

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    31. Cersei’s outfit was unbelievably gorgeous last night. I found it interesting that she has switched to silver instead of the Lannister gold.

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    32. Nadia:
      The Starks made me so damn emotional – like tears in my eyes, lump in my throat – emotional so many times.

      The TOJ obviously, when Ned looks at this little baby. Robert Aramayo just nails that. And they found a little baby that looks as world weary as Jon Snow?? Just tears.

      R+L=J has been such a certainty for so long that I didn’t think it would make me so emotional but I was blubbering. I read the first 4 books in 2009 and so I’ve been waiting 7 years for this reveal. I can’t imagine how it felt for those waiting for almost 20!

      Dany is nowhere near my favorite character but I do tend to love her big moments and that last scene with her on the boat next to Tyrion? I almost felt proud of this fictional little queen.

      I’m glad everyone else noticed Tyrion’s look of possible love toward Dany. It seemed like he was surprised and almost annoyed with himself for realizing he “felt some kind of way” about her. 😛

      I also think it’s hilarious that we all assumed Tyrion was going to be hallucinating his way through the streets of Meereen, seeing Shae at every turn, when she was just there to visit the set/film her own thing. How many hours were wasted on that spec plus trying to guess the 2 known characters burning on the crosses? haha

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    33. weirwoodtreehugger,

      Jon follows through with the execution, but the method changes to beheading. His sword hits her ruby necklace and becomes engulfed in flames. Lightbringer is born.
      Read that somewhere online and thought it was an interesting theory for LB.

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    34. Dee Stark:
      Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      They showed us Olenna/Ellaria/Varys before they showed us Jamie.
      So it makes sense.

      So in the time it took for Olenna to recieve word at High Garden and then travel to Dorne, and then Jaime arrive back afterwards, the ruins were still smoking like that? Probably would have taken weeks for all of that to happen, maybe longer for all that travelling. And Cersei undoubtedly didn’t wait a month or two to be crowned, and Jaime was there to see it. Just a bit wonky is all.

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    35. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface:
      Even with jet packing this was an incredible episode.

      The same jet pack brought not only varys but also the Dornish fleet to Dany, Jamie from the Twins to Kingslanding and all the northern lords to Winterfell.

      Could it be that it wasn’t a jet pack but a general time jump? ^^

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    36. With 13 episodes left, I am imagine seeing a lot more jet packing than usual, so people need to start accepting it.

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    37. Omg, can this jet pack thing be put to rest.

      GRRM himself has said these events don’t happen chronologically, nor simultaneously, and the timelines are not linear. The show has showed and told us the same. PLEEEEASSEEEE.

      It’s like the same people who kept insisting Sansa is pregnant because the show happened over 10 weeks rather than understanding the events of the show happen over many months.

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    38. I, as well as others, laughed at the jet packing throughout the episode but I didn’t care…they cleaned up so many stories so impressively in 69 minutes.

      It was all just so fantastic…and QoT must be in all scenes with SS and always shut them up…because I can even enjoy them in that light.

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    39. PLEASE bring Bella Ramsey back. She was electric in every scene, and I think I just about lost it every time she was shown.

      And when she looks around with pride at the King in the North chants and starts chanting herself…. cries.

      Please, just have her hang around her tiny self with all these huge Northern male lords owning them all.

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    40. I’m hoping that as the scripts are still being written and the actors don’t know what’s in store for their characters next season, that Kit, Sophie and Liam were just theorising over tensio between Sansa and Jon next year or that she is somehow bitter he is the King in the North when she feels she ought to be queen. I don’t want to see tension in House Stark damnit. You guys just reformed! Jon said it best, they have so many enemies now, they can’t afford to fight each other.

      I’ll really miss Marg too. She was one of my favourites and certainly one of the most intelligent/cunning. She was always interesting to watch and I loved how she manipulated people, but I never got an “evil queen” vibe off her as I do from Cersei. I too don’t see Cersei’s reign lasting very long. When Dany arrives, who the hell would back Cersei over the Targaryan heiress with the biggest army/fleet in the world in her command, oh yeah, and three big-ass Dragons too!

      Loved that end scene. Dany is finally heading home! I cannot wait for her to get there (as long as she doesn’t become a new enemy to Jon – I would love for them to be on the same side).

      Oh and please please please bring back Lyanna Mormont. This fierce little girl epitomises the North to me and I love that they gave such a pivotal moment to a young girl. Brilliant! She owned that scene (and all her others), we definitely need her back.

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    41. They will meet and be allies possibly in the war against WW but political marriage doesn’t makes sense for Jon and Daeny. She can’t have children and North would probably bend the knee. Jon is King of devastated country and white walkers invasion too. Not much to gain. Daeny got massive army with herand three dragons. It might be better for her to rule as Queen. Jon seems to be only eligible guy for Daeny but he can’t offer her much.

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    42. Unless The sassy classy Lady Mormont is fathered by a member of the Mormont family to say she is a Mormont , then she really wouldn’t be too bothered what name Jon goes by once there is Stark blood for King of the north .
      Cersei going by her maiden name for Queen , no Baratheon name for her.
      I can’t wait for next season , I only hope Lady Olenna gets revenge at Cersei before she dies .

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    43. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: So in the time it took for Olenna to recieve word at High Garden and then travel to Dorne, and then Jaime arrive back afterwards, the ruins were still smoking like that? Probably would have taken weeks for all of that to happen, maybe longer for all that travelling. And Cersei undoubtedly didn’t wait a month or two to be crowned, and Jaime was there to see it. Just a bit wonky is all.

      You know that the storylines are separate timelines, right? Jaime/KL doesn’t necessarily follow the same time as Dorne/Dany, so why do you keep comparing them?

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    44. Direwolf Lvr,

      The Dire wolves were the #1 reasons I started reading the books. I have had an Alaskan Malamute now at my side for the past 25yrs. They have short lifespans, like 8-10 years on average.

      So yeah a few times a week, every week, during hikes and park walks people come up to me and tell me he looks like a Dire wolf from Game of Thrones because he is so big, 150lbs.

      Anywho, the choice D&D made (possible the only choice giving the budget it would have taken to bring us good quality CGI Dire wolves) IMO was bad.

      The best CGI wolf I ever say was that 2011 Red Riding Hood movie. He looked a lot like the Twilight Wolves but IMO more realistic and sinister looking.

      I really wish they would just go the CGI route for the dire wolves, the Red Riding Hood effects are from 2011, it has to be a lot cheaper to do it now. They should just contact the company that did the Red Riding Hood CGI and have them alter it a little and bring it to GoT. Maybe with the last two seasons D&D will go that route, who knows. HBO would give them what they ask for.

      I bet it is so frustrating and time consuming working with a real wolf on set and that is why we hardly see Ghost anymore.

      Here is the best clip I can find of the Red Riding Hood wolf, it would be PERFECT for a dire wolf model…

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    45. Jack Bauer 24: You know that the storylines are separate timelines, right? Jaime/KL doesn’t necessarily follow the same time as Dorne/Dany, so why do you keep comparing them?

      The only reason it matters is for continuity. Technically yes there are different timelines, but showing them out of order is a little odd. Watching it it didn’t bother me, but thinking about it after the show ended I started to wonder why Olenna was already plotting her revenge, and then Jaime arrives presumably within a day or two of the explosion. Not sure why people are fighting tooth and claw to explain it away. The show was great. Constructive criticism is ok folks.

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    46. What happened with that Shea sighting from last summer? Guess the actor WAs just visiting the set.

      Are Sansa and Tryion still married? That wasn’t cleared up before she ran off with Littlefinger and “married” Ramsay. At least I don’t remember anything being said about it. I bring it up because of all the talk about who’s going to marry who next season.

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    47. MASTERFUL, GORGEOUS, PERFECT.

      Jaime’s been singing his sister’s song for a while, so now deal with it bro.

      I know Cercei’s evil, but wow I hated the Sparrow and Septa Ulena more – so glad that evil woman got tortured – isn’t that awful? But she wasn’t truly of the Faith – she went into personal pleasure when she had C. captive.

      I knew it about Tommen, I just knew he’d kill himself as soon as he saw the boom. Sad for the little guy.

      I am looking forward most to Cercei and Tyrion reunion, what the Hound gets up to (proposing marriage to Sansa I hope) and Arya striking names off her list. Not sure how they can wring 13-14 eps out of what’s left, but hey, not complaining!

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    48. This season finale was SO satisfying in every way that I think I’ll actually be OK waiting until next year. I can just rewatch this epic finale (well, the whole season actually) over and over until next spring and I think I’ll get by. 🙂

      Last year’s finale with Jon’s death was so heartbreaking and soul-crushing (even though I knew it was coming from the books). It ended on such a dark hopeless note- I was worried for months and totally obsessed with keeping on top of the latest filming news- searching for hope Jon was for sure coming back. I think during filming this year I’ll be able to relax much more with such a happier ending to dwell on vs. the sadness of last season’s end (no offense to the deceased Tyrells).

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    49. Another thing about Lyanna Mormont, in terms of the influence she has, is that she is not just some random ten year old girl who happens to be a noble and have an attitude. Bear Island has a history of bad ass women warriors, because they constantly fight the iron born and women learning to fight and lead there was a necessity. That tradition I think is part of the respect she commands and taking nothing away from awesome, awesome character she is, is an integral part of who she is, how she sees herself, how others see her, and the way that she is.

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    50. Arthur,

      You know I’m so frustrated at the lack of Ghost & Nymeria that I’m now hoping one of Daeny’s dragons dies…
      Ive no idea how the CGI budget etc works but assume thatd make it easier for them to show our favourite House’s animal!!

      WINTER IS HERE!!
      BRING BACK THE DIREWOLVES!!!

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    51. Btw I have a theory…King Jon is going to found a new House, House Snow of Winterfell, and their words are gonna be “Winter is Here!“.
      Starks are over. Those saying tge girls can continue, I dont think Sansa’s gonna marry for politics ever again, nor is she gonna fall in love with any Westerosi anytime soon….and Arya….well, shes the Lone Wolf – cant see her living in a castle ever again.

      Maybe thats GRRM’s bittersweet ending, Jon sorta will be the end of his beloved father’s…no, mother’s House Stark.

      Hes not gonna take on the Targ surname as a Northener either, so Snow it is!!

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    52. Great finale and strong work all season by WotW crew. Thank you. Now the off season that brings new speculation, rumors, and tinfoil.

      I just want to add I’m tired of all the jet pack hate. If the show committed valuable screen time towards uneventful travel for these characters, we wouldn’t have seen most of last night’s episode until 3/4 of the way through next season. I enjoy the expedited plot to keep things moving. The small details, slower moments, and character building is all very well done but sometimes the show runners have to stay on point and last night was a great example of how they avoid the Martin curse of wasting fucking time

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    53. Nadia: Her one undoing is not understanding how truly deranged Cersei actually is.

      Hey Nadia,
      Lol, I remembered our discussion about the blue roses, and I was actually looking for blue roses somewhere when they showed Lyanna. But that wasn’t a room for roses, was it? – wasn’t that room a sight? All that blood, OMG, and those two midwives standing around looking stunned. Poor Lyanna. But the baby, the baby … that scene of the baby changing to Jon’s adult face was perfect.

      I think Marge knew how deranged Cersei was from the time last season when Cersei came into Marge’s cell with the leftover venison stew, which Marge promptly threw back into her face. Marge’s problem was that she underestimated the High Sparrow, that shoeless ass.

      Turns out, to my way of thinking, his whole game was the tamping down of powerful, high-born women. He was ready to go after Olenna, and would have, if Marge hadn’t convinced her to get the hell out of town. He was loving the power he had over these women, so much so that he blithely betrayed Margaery. Obviously, they had had a conversation about Loras repenting, and he assured her that Loras would not get the mark on his forehead. Then he allowed it to happen. Margaery overestimated the power she had on the HS and severely underestimated his willingness to betray her. The HS’s death is one death I’m glad happened, but I will miss the Tyrells, even sweet clueless Mace.

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    54. Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface: So in the time it took for Olenna to recieve word at High Garden and then travel to Dorne, and then Jaime arrive back afterwards, the ruins were still smoking like that? Probably would have taken weeks for all of that to happen, maybe longer for all that travelling. And Cersei undoubtedly didn’t wait a month or two to be crowned, and Jaime was there to see it. Just a bit wonky is all.

      Do you really not get it? These imaginary events occur and then when people are assembling a show it’s done for poetic purpose. Events are reorganized to keep certain paired moments within one episode. With an expansive show like this the expectation is not there that a clock is ticking, a la 24, and we’re seeing one thing follow another.

      Seriously, any television watcher at this point should know better than to talk about jetpacks and time traveling. It’s just unsophisticated.

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    55. RG,

      I´m terrible at guessing and foreshadowing; I didn´t even catch Jon´s parentage until I saw it written on the net…however,this Three Headed Dragon thing is looking to me as a metaphor for the three fighting factions that are being born: Dany and co, Jon and co and crazy, it looks like Cersei and co…could it be that LittleFinger goes to Cersei and Jamie turns up in WinterFell? Who will they be fighting? Cersei? WW? Dragons? Themselves? I´m really confused 🙁 🙁 🙁

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    56. Derek,

      well they have certainly opened up the rosters with plenty of new spots after this episode. haha I imagine we will get him next year for sure, maybe he arrives in WF and gives Jon his lineage, not Bran

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    57. Nadia:
      The Starks made me so damn emotional – like tears in my eyes, lump in my throat – emotional so many times.

      The TOJ obviously, when Ned looks at this little baby. Robert Aramayo just nails that. And they found a little baby that looks as world weary as Jon Snow?? Just tears.

      Lyanna fucking Mormont. I just cheered out loud, over and over, “yes yes yes yes.” When the music starts playing when she says “The North Remembers” and Sansa smiles and I just cry.

      I said over and over how much I wanted Robett Glover to get another scene. Tim McInnerny is just a fantastic actor and it was a crime to think he only gets one scene, and he captured that sense of betrayal the North felt so spot on. When he declares Jon King in the North…the end, me.

      And last, when Jon and Sansa smile and laugh at Winter is Here. AWESOME. We’ve heard everyone warn about winter over and over, it’s this ominous cloud that hangs over the whole series, from episode one we hear “winter is coming” and we’re made to fear it. And then Winter comes when the Starks are back in Winterfell and there’s pure joy there. It’s an amazing amazing amazing moment. A Time for Wolves indeed.

      <3 <3 <3

      I hate your buzz killing, Kit/Sophie/Liam/David, I really do.

      I totally agree about Tim McInnerny and Bella (Lyanna)! And of course all the Stark feels. With respect to the interviews – I think/hope they’re all just playing up the drama a bit. I’m not sure the actors would even have had the scripts for next year when they filmed these interviews, so Liam’s speculation about a Jon/Sansa conflict is just that – speculation. I’d be incredibly annoyed if they make it a major plot point for next season, mostly because it’s such a trivial thing in comparison to the impending WW invasion. If they make Sansa get all jealous/insecure over Jon having the Northern Throne, it would be a waste of precious screen time, and it would also make her seem petty. It’s just not end game material, imo, and we’re approaching the end-game now.

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    58. weirwoodtreehugger,

      It seems likely that Melisandre, the BWB, Brienne, and Arya are all due to meet each other in the Riverlands

      Yes, that seems likely. It’s just to interesting to not get to that. The Lord of Light followers unite and the Hound meets the two women who wanted to kill him and left him for dead.

      Also it might get Arya into the big picture of the fight against the Walkers.

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    59. You can really tell how different Daenerys Targaryen is from Emilia Clarke, if those EW answers are any true indicator of her personality. Was looking for a better comparison, but does anyone in all of Westeros or Essos have a disposition that sunny? Maybe Hot Pie?

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    60. Nadia: Omg, can this jet pack thing be put to rest.

      GRRM himself has said these events don’t happen chronologically, nor simultaneously, and the timelines are not linear. The show has showed and told us the same. PLEEEEASSEEEE.

      Agreed, I think they are done trying to show everything in chronological
      order (and have been for some time). They even pointed out that Arya’s storyline over a few episodes happens in a matter of days while the Jon/Sansa tour of the North that was contained in one episode happens over a few weeks. So Olenna in Dorne doesn’t necessarily have to have happened before Jaime made it back to King’s Landing. And while it was a bit jarring at first to see Varys back with Dany right after we saw him in Dorne it’s obvious that several weeks had passed. It’s not like Dany would have been able to set sail for Westeros a few days after the battle of Mereen. It would have taken some time to get all the ships ready and get provisions secured.

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    61. Dee Stark,

      I agree. Now that everyone (almost everyone, where is Jorah?) is back on Westeros, there should be fewer jet packing issues anyway and I hope there is enough drama to keep us from noticing any that might exist. I would have loved to have seen an introductory scene between Dany and Varys. Other than that his travels didn’t bother me. And they were really rushing to the conclusion. He had one line.

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    62. I just told my husband “hair watch” is over. I’m now on “Joe Demspie watch”
      Yoohoo…Gendry? 🙂

      Nadia,

      Yeah she was great! I’m really hoping we see her again next season. Maybe at a certain tourney? 🙂 Bran can’t leave us hanging without a glimpse of the R in R+L…right? *crossing things*

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    63. And now my withdrawal season begins…

      I loved this season (minus some bumps in the road) and I can’t wait to find out what happens next… I just hope D&D don’t drag for too long that supposed “tension” between Sansa and Jon (which I honestly didn’t see at all in the last episode). Although, with LF there, things are not going to run smoothly.

      I can’t wait to watch Cersei’s demise, the new super-villainess!!

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    64. taim,
      I think that’s what the showrunners want us to be asking ourselves. They want us to think Baelish may convince Sansa to betray Jon. In the end, she knows Jon’s love and loyalty to her comes without strings.
      I think she will protect Jon from Littlefinger somehow and beat him at his own game.
      …Maybe by manipulating Sweet Robin?

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    65. Off-Topic Otto,

      It’s becoming eminently clear that the educated, intelligent GoT fans are the ones who are questioning the narrative discontinuity/mis-sequencing and jumps in time. The below average seem to blindly accept the writing “as is” and even vociferously defend it.

      Why is this the case?

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    66. iridium,

      I totally agree with you… I think they were discussing this season’s tension between Jon and Sansa, rather than hinting what’s to come (as far as I understand, they haven’t received the new scripts yet by the time they filmed those interviews…). Sansa seemed perfectly fine with Jon being a full Stark, getting their parents’ chamber and being declared the Kit in the North (I’m sorry, I couldn’t help myself). I would seem rather strange that now she would feel jealous… And it would seem a waste of time, as you mention…

      I do think LF will try to stir the pot however. Let’s just hope Jon and Sansa just form a tight pack.

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    67. RG: I don’t want Jaime to kill Cersei

      Agree. There are still plenty of other people left to take care of Cersei. Seeing Jaime do stuff such as fight WWs would add more to the complexity. And with Tommen dead, there’s a small Valyrian sword available. It could be affixed to his stump instead of the golden hand. I like it already.

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    68. Am I the only one who doesn’t think Lyanna whispered a name at all?

      I thought she was just saying “it’s Rhager and my son” or something like that. and then she goes into Ned having to protect him.

      And Bran obviously heard, right?

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    69. Red Viper: Sue, mods & all watchers – we have to start a campaign to get these last two episodes shown on IMAX screens some time this winter …

      Sign me up. I’m already imagining being in an IMAX theater full of other wildly devoted Game of Thrones fans, chomping popcorn, staring at that big screen and cheering wildly when Dany says “Dracarys” or when Wun Wun bursts through the gates of Winterfell, or when Lyanna says King in the North.

      It was a happy diversion, during the winter after the end of season 4, to go see Watchers on the Wall, get a poster and be in a huge room among other fans. Yes, please, do the IMAX for these two episodes.

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    70. Laura: What a one-two punch. In my eyes, definitely the 2 best companion episodes of the whole series. I enjoyed every scene last night.

      My main questions for next season: How does Arya play into the endgame, once her list is complete? Where does Melisandre go from here? To Dany? To Cersei? Why is the Lord of Light not done with Sandor Clegane? Will we see the WW at all before they hit The Wall? Will Bran continue to see into the past or will it mostly be present/future from here on out since he saw the main thing he needed to see in the past?

      I wholeheartedly agree on the “one-two punch!” Whether or not a viewer believes season six was the best yet, it’s hard to argue that BotB & TWoW aren’t the best back-to-back episodes of the series, at least in the way of an enjoyable spectacle. I liked them for so much more than that though.

      All your main questions are good ones. I’m curious about all that too.

      What will Arya do? The list she repeated on the steps of the HoBaW was just “Cersei, The Mountain, Walder Frey, Meryn Trant.” When training with the waif she said the same people, minus Trant of course. That one is 50% accomplished and would require elite level skill in KL to complete. Her list did originally include the “Red Woman,” Beric, Thoros and Ilyn though. Has she taken them off like she did Sandor? It’s hard to imagine her not heading straight for Winterfell when she hears Jon and Sansa have retaken it, but maybe she decides to do some things first.

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    71. Setting aside a few problematic issues like time traveling and Tyrion’s new bumbling, lackey vibe, to name just a couple, this was arguably the best season finale of the series. Although I enjoyed almost all of the episode, my favorite scenes were in King’s Landing as the majority of the action occurred there and it was where the most compelling psychological drama unfolded.

      Even though we have seen King’s Landing every season, the way this episode was shot changed the familiar dramatically. The haunting violins playing through these scenes were something not heard before and were extremely powerful in setting an ominous tone that intimated the normally golden-hewed city was turning dark and the characters there were doomed. As many speculated, Cersei preserved her existence and exacted her revenge by igniting the caches of wild fire the Mad King had stashed beneath the Sept of Baelor, which resulted in the annihilation of her adversaries including the Tyrells, Kevan and Lancel Lannister, and the High Sparrow. Grand Maester Pycelle joined the list of the dead when Qyburn had several of his little birds gruesomely stab the old man to death to, as he put it, make room for the new. The list of the dead in King’s Landing grew again when, upon seeing the Sept explode from his window in the Red Keep, Tommen, who had been prevented from venturing to the Sept by the Mountain, lost all hope and leapt to his death. As I watched Tommen cast himself out of the window, I could not help but think of Bran being pushed out of the window in Winterfell. Was this karma at work?

      While the action scenes in the capital were shocking and heart pounding, it was Cersei’s metamorphoses that was the most interesting for me. Her glee in personally taunting Septa Unella was a departure from Cersei’s normally arm’s length revenge tactics, and her utterly emotionless reaction to Tommen’s death, stood in stark contrast to her hysterics when Joffrey died and even to her quiet tears for Myrcella. Cersei is changed. The love for her children was Cersei’s one redeeming quality, but her children are all dead now and with them went the last traces of Cersei’s humanity. What is left is unmovable, cold, and detached. It seems Cersei has accepted her fate as told by Maggy the Frog. All three of her children are dead, and, as she believes her own death is imminent, Cersei has chosen to go out like a lion. Clad in a charcoal dress with armored shoulders, Cersei walked into the darkened throne room to be crowned Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. She sat on the Iron Throne, the color of her dress made it seem as if she became one with the swords of the vanquished. Cersei is clearly ready for battle. If she’s going down, she’s taking all those who wronged her down with her. Remember all those people who mocked her, spit on her and threw shit on her during her walk of shame, they should be very afraid. Cersei’s reign will likely not be a long one, but it promises to be a bloody one.

      While I’m relatively sure that next season will ratchet up the excitement as the series approaches its end and there will be more battles, more White Walkers, more dragons and more gruesome killings, what interests me the most is the human interaction between this brother and sister. How will Jaime react to the changed Cersei? Will Jaime participate in a reign of terror? Will he attempt to help Cersei by trying to dissuade her from a path of destruction? Will he become overwhelmed and remove himself from King’s Landing leaving his sister to her own devices? Will he lose all hope and fling himself out of a window as Tommen did, or will he “wrap his hands around her pale white throat and choke the life from her”? I can’t wait to find out.

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    72. weirwoodtreehugger,

      Arya will release Edmure, weasel soup will happen, Riverrun will return to Tullys, and this time the Lannisters can’t take back Riverrun because there are no more Tully Lords prisoners available. I even hold out hope that the Blackfish is not really dead and will participate in the take back.

      Some where among all this, Freys will continue to be exterminated. Where is Nymeria when we need her?

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    73. Princessmaria,

      As far as Jamie goes, I do think he will be the one to kill Cersei. He’ll find himself in a similar position as before with Kings Aerys, saving the masses from a out of control ruler. New titles will include Queenslayer/ Kinslayer.

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    74. So Sansa apologized to Jon, but still didn’t say why she didn’t tell him about the Vale army. She didn’t trust him ok…she didn’t trust what though? That he was going to double cross her and sell the info? Tell Ramsay? Like wtf i seriously don’t understand this.

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    75. Dee Stark:
      Laura,

      Huh?? Shae??

      I know you hate spoilers but since this one is not true I can tell you. The actress who plays Shae was spotted on the Meereen set last year during filming. I believe there were several pics of her with cast members/crew (I think Dinklage was in one and maybe D&D in the other?) and it looked like she was coming back. The main theory people came up with was that Tyrion must be hallucinating her (due to lack of food in the city) out of guilt.

      The other big thing that turned out to be untrue was that 2 of the bodies burning on the crosses were known characters and it was confirmed by Sue that Rickon wasn’t one of them. So that’s what led a lot of people to guess that Roose and Walda were toast. Many of us also feared for Tormund and Edd.

      KingSnow!LordCrow:
      Btw I have a theory…King Jon is going to found a new House, House Snow of Winterfell, and their words are gonna be “Winter is Here!“.
      Starks are over. Those saying tge girls can continue, I dont think Sansa’s gonna marry for politics ever again, nor is she gonna fall in love with any Westerosi anytime soon….and Arya….well, shes the Lone Wolf – cant see her living in a castle ever again.

      Maybe thats GRRM’s bittersweet ending, Jon sorta will be the end of his beloved father’s…no, mother’s House Stark.

      Hes not gonna take on the Targ surname as a Northener either, so Snow it is!!

      If anything, I think House Stargaryen will be born.

      Kane Dawg:
      Off-Topic Otto,

      It’s becoming eminently clear that the educated, intelligent GoT fans are the ones who are questioning the narrative discontinuity/mis-sequencing and jumps in time. The below average seem to blindly accept the writing “as is” and even vociferously defend it.

      Why is this the case?

      That’s likely the most obnoxious thing ever posted here and that is saying something! I could sit here and make my book-reading self miserable and pick apart every continuity error or jetpack trip on the show or I could sit back and enjoy it for what it is – entertaining television.

      I have my fair share of little bones to pick here and there and do I wish that some of the writing was smarter? Yes. But, I’m also smart enough to realize that the reason this show is a global phenomenon isn’t because of obsessed fans like everyone here. It’s because of the casual viewer who can’t tell Jeor or Jorah Mormont apart and barely has a clue who Rhaegar Targaryen is.

      This show is the closest thing to blockbuster TV that has ever existed and many things will be sacrificed along the way to appease the masses. I still enjoy the hell out of it. And I will enjoy the hell out of the next book when it comes out, because then I can immerse myself in all the minutiae and world building GRRM is known for. For now, I am very grateful this show exists and has been as good as it’s been. We are very lucky. It doesn’t mean the show gets a free pass when it sucks (see: Dorne) but you’ve got to let some of that shit go.

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    76. Curious, is there any real reason to not show Lyanna mentioned Rhaegar, or to keep that whispered, other than to give GRRM the chance to publish?

      Presumably Bran knows. It’s not like HE’S confused. It’s just that the make it so the audience can’t hear the whisper, delaying the actual reveal

      I have to be honest, I had about 3 of my casual show watchers friends be really so confused about the whole thing. There was a lot of “wait, who is she again? She had a baby? I don’t get it. Wait, is it Jon?”

      And needless to say, no one picked up on why “Robert” would kill him.

      And then when I explained it, it was “so are him and Dany cousins?”

      It’s an amazing moment for us dedicated fans, and I’m sure all the reviewers will know what it means, but I think actually most viewers won’t get it.

      Edit: i should add, if you go on a place like Reddit with endless #s of posters, so many of them are just so confused like “wait, so who is Jon’s dad.”

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    77. Anyone notice in the last episode that black was the dress code for lots of people.
      Loved the episode, I do not think Sansa feels any jealousy to Jon and she is still trying to figure out how to get at Littlefinger.

      I’m thinking Ayra .

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    78. I wasn’t very keen on Margaery at first but she grew on me (no pun intended). I’m actually going to miss her quick wit and scheming against Cersei. Loras’ last scenes were just sad. I feel sorry for him. I’ll miss the whole Tyrell family actually. THANKFULLY Olenna survived!! That line about letting the grown women talk cracked me up. 🙂

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    79. I don’t mind that the different scenes run on different timetables, but it would be helpful if the show occasionally dropped some hints as to relative timing. When stories merge, that’s when the timetables become more important.

      To make last night work, we have to assume that Varys left quite awhile before the masters attacked. That when QoT and Sand Snakes met, the coronation had already taken place. That Dany and Tyrion spent weeks (months?) preparing to depart Meereen.

      All of this is very believable. But a hint or two for perspective would be helpful to make it less jarring.

      For example, Tyrion could have something to Dany like, “it’s taken longer than we hoped, but the ships are finally ready. I hope to have word from Varys about the success of his mission soon.”

      Or QoT in Dorne saying, “I almost turned the ship around when we received word of the massacre in Kings Landing. But since I was almost here, let’s hear what you have to say.”

      Also, I think one of the reasons it seems jarring is the order of the scenes. Had we seen the coronation midway through the show, then we might more easily accept that some time passed when Qot is in Dorne. Instead, she arrives at Dorne to cut a deal to get revenge, and after we see the sept still smoldering and Jamie witnessing Cersei’s coronation.

      I don’t think we need to see travel/journeys to believe they happened, just some perspective. Especially when the narratives merge.

      But, I’ve accepted that we might just have to suspend disbelief to enjoy this incredible production.

        Quote  Reply

    80. I’m pretty bummed by Margaery’s demise as well. I don’t recall being emotionally connected to her in the books, it has been a few years, but Dormer was amazing in every scene she was given. By the time the Kings Landing scene aired last night I was hoping beyond hope that somehow she would make it out.

        Quote  Reply

    81. Tyrion’s Mother,

      I also didn’t get any sort of impression that Sansa had a problem with Jon or was jealous of him. She told Jon she wanted him to have the ruling seat at Winterfell and she was smiling pretty approvingly at the Lyanna Mormont KitN bit. Maybe I have to rewatch… but I don’t see the problem. Maybe the woman has just been through a lot and just seems sick of bs… or perhaps Sophie is just kind of playing it too cool for people. I don’t know. I get the feeling the glance at LF only means she knows he’s up to something. That’s all I will say about the whole Sansa thing.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Nadia:
      Am I the only one who doesn’t think Lyanna whispered a name at all?

      I am not sure how people know what she said. I turned the volume all the way up and didn’t understand a thing. Was there anything audible at all besides the “Robert will kill him” and “Promise me Ned”? Or are the lip readers already on it?

        Quote  Reply

    83. In pure cast member numbers, it’s interesting that the show killed 35 (!) of it’s recurring characters this season:

      3 Tyrells, 3 Martells, 3 Boltons, 3 Freys, Tommen, Pycelle, High Sparrow, Lancel & Unella, Kevan & Lancel, Balon, 4 NW men, Osha & Rickon, Khal Moro, Hodor & 3ER & Leaf, Blackfish, Waif, Lady Crane, Wun Wun, Smalljon.

      Which means that for the final two seasons, and 13 episodes, we’re down to only 28 (!!) potential (though all likely) recurring characters appearing next season:

      Queen of Thorns, Yara & uncles, Grey Worm, Meera & Benjen, Edd, Pod, Gregor, Qyburn, 3 Sand Snakes, 4 Tarly family, 4 Northern rulers, Robin & Yohn Royce, Edmure, Beric & Thoros and the Night King.

      ….That’s it….

        Quote  Reply

    84. RG: I’m now on “Joe Demspie watch”
      Yoohoo…Gendry?

      Gendry is needed to make Valyrian weapons. Gendry and Arya will establish a new dynasty with Stark and Baratheon DNA.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Seej,

      Yas!! If she does indeed coerce/manipulate Sweetrobin it’ll be in accordance with their relationship in the books. The boy is heavily reliant on Sansa, so I expect her to worm her way into his good graces.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Princessmaria:
      How will Jaime react to the changed Cersei? Will Jaime participate in a reign of terror?Will he attempt to help Cersei by trying to dissuade her from a path of destruction?Will he become overwhelmed and remove himself from King’s Landing leaving his sister to her own devices?Will he lose all hope and fling himself out of a window as Tommen did, or will he “wrap his hands around her pale white throat and choke the life from her”?I can’t wait to find out.

      I said this (and think it got lost in) in yesterday’s now epic-length open chat (after a fashion) and wanted to put it in better context here:

      I think we’ve finally seen the end of Jaime the Lannister and the beginnings of Jaime the redeemed. Witness three scenes in the past few episodes that I think bode well for his future:

      * Brienne’s chat with him about how much better Jaime is than what he’s doing at Riverrun obviously got to him

      * Jaime’s chat with Walder Frey in this episode obviously made him uncomfortable, especially when you could see it in his face that he started to realize that he was doing the same things as this odious little man (and I think he also realized the promise Jaime made to Edmure Tully had been broken by Frey)

      * The I-don’t-give-a-fuck look from Cersei as Jaime watched her sit on the Iron Throne, not even a tear shed or a kind word for the last of their children (since Jaime’s not stupid, Cersei could only be crowned queen if the last of their children were gone)

      Something’s got to give. I think Jaime has finally realized he’s now in the exact same position he was at the end of Mad King Aerys’s reign, and something’s got to give. He may have pushed Bran out a window, and he may have (understandably) broken his oath to his king… but he’s on the road out of darkness and I think this season will finally kick his butt to do the right thing.

      I could be wrong, though. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    87. Nadia,

      I think it was intensional to extend story a little longer.

      Remember, someone still needs to tell Jon, and I think those conversations (with Bran or Howland) will fill in the blanks. For us hardcore fans, it’ll be a confirmation. For casual viewers it will continue the revelation.

      Plus, this entire season there have been many repeated mentions of Jon’s parentage, him being a bastard etc. Given that it was clearly established that it was his “father” Ned who was in the Tower, that Lyanna was his sister, and she was giving him a baby, and we cut straight to Jon, I’d have thought even casual viewers would have picked up on the fact that the baby was Jon, and that Ned wasn’t his father but uncle.

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    88. Nadia:
      Omg, can this jet pack thing be put to rest.

      GRRM himself has said these events don’t happen chronologically, nor simultaneously, and the timelines are not linear. The show has showed and told us the same. PLEEEEASSEEEE.

      It’s like the same people who kept insisting Sansa is pregnant because the show happened over 10 weeks rather than understanding the events of the show happen over many months.

      ^this!!! All of this!!! So tired of people not understanding that the time lines are not concurring all the time. Everybody here ought to be aware by now.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Off-Topic Otto,

      If you read my original post, the episode was fantastic. Of course I get it. Doesnt mean I cant criticize it too. Maybe the best season finale yet. This is a discussion forum. Criticism is a part of that. Being sophisticated is being able to look at things critically even though you “get it.”

        Quote  Reply

    90. I love that Emilia always uses the first person to describe Danys actions. It’s all I this and me. Makes it so much more fun to despise Dany and the actress

        Quote  Reply

    91. iridium: If they make Sansa get all jealous/insecure over Jon having the Northern Throne, it would be a waste of precious screen time, and it would also make her seem petty. It’s just not end game material, imo, and we’re approaching the end-game now.

      Great points and well expressed

        Quote  Reply

    92. ThisGirlHasNoName:
      I don’t mind that the different scenes run on different timetables, but it would be helpful if the show occasionally dropped some hints as to relative timing. When stories merge, that’s when the timetables become more important.

      To make last night work, we have to assume that Varys left quite awhile before the masters attacked. That when QoT and Sand Snakes met, the coronation had already taken place. That Dany and Tyrion spent weeks (months?) preparing to depart Meereen.

      All of this is very believable. But a hint or two for perspective would be helpful to make it less jarring.

      For example, Tyrion could have something to Dany like, “it’s taken longer than we hoped, but the ships are finally ready. I hope to have word from Varys about the success of his mission soon.”

      Or QoT in Dorne saying, “I almost turned the ship around when we received word of the massacre in Kings Landing. But since I was almost here, let’s hear what you have to say.”

      Also, I think one of the reasons it seems jarring is the order of the scenes. Had we seen the coronation midway through the show, then we might more easily accept that some time passed when Qot is in Dorne. Instead, she arrives at Dorne to cut a deal to get revenge, and after we see the sept still smoldering and Jamie witnessing Cersei’s coronation.

      I don’t think we need to see travel/journeys to believe they happened, just some perspective. Especially when the narratives merge.

      But, I’ve accepted that we might just have to suspend disbelief to enjoy this incredible production.

      Well said. It was a great finale, but this right here is really all the criticism is really about. The show doesnt suck. Its fantastic. But its totally ok to point these things out in a respectful manner. Unfortunately it drives a lot of people nuts to do so…

        Quote  Reply

    93. Jack Bauer 24:
      So Sansa apologized to Jon, but still didn’t say why she didn’t tell him about the Vale army. She didn’t trust him ok…she didn’t trust what though?

      We probably won’t get an answer to that. Things like that bother me a bit. Writers apparently hate to spell things out for everyone, I get that and appreciate that for the most part, but when it’s about central character motivations than it’s a bit of a stretch. The dramatic decision to create conflict seems a bit heavy handed there.
      I guess we’re supposed to think that Littlefingers questioning of Jon’s loyalties were enough for him to sow distrust between Jon and Sansa, so this is Littlefinger playing them against each other. And of course the men around her don’t treat her as equal at all and she has very bad experiences with putting her trust in the men around her, who were never able or willing to care for her in the end, even someone like her father.
      So it may not necessarily be about trust in Jon’s loyalty but trust in his personality and ability to have her best interest at heart.

      It might be any of that or none. Because we don’t get that explanation it seems like a cheap dramatic trick. I think D&D don’t really think the audience cares that much, which for the most part is probably right.

        Quote  Reply

    94. So will Jamie have to kill another mad monarch who threatens to blow up the realm rather than cede the throne?

        Quote  Reply

    95. Cock Merchant,

      From lip reading it’s pretty obvious she first says “his name is ____”. It’s hard to make out the name, but it looks like it has two syllables and starts with a vowel.

      (it’s at 3:50 in the video below)

        Quote  Reply

    96. Laura,

      For now, I am very grateful this show exists and has been as good as it’s been. We are very lucky. It doesn’t mean the show gets a free pass when it sucks (see: Dorne) but you’ve got to let some of that shit go

      .I could not agree more.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Singedbylife,

      Devil’s advocate. What’s preventing Arya from showing up anywhere, as anyone, at any time?

      Obvious statement but GoT is an extremely subjective viewing experience. One of the most subjective portions of any tv show is suspension of disbelief. It’s a personal, bordering on irrational, opinion of what is believable. For example, accepting fireproof Dany or immortal beric is a lot easier (for me) than Brienne going from WF to RR without one single meaningful event occurring on the way. It’s not really a time thing (in story). It’s about the lack of events.

      I am super biased about world building (which i like) and “endgames” (which i don’t care much about) so of course i am going to want to discuss why travel of great distances in dangerous territory was so uneventful? At the same time I try not to get involved when characters’ importance to the endgame is discussed. I don’t really root for any PoVs because i prefer the tycho’s, lem’s and marwyn’s. The strong belwas’, haldon’s and alleras’. The PoV is too close. I enjoy their story and interactions but usually I don’t enjoy them.

      Props to Cogman for answering respectfully on twitter about this because he recognizes it as a legit point of discussion (even though the tweeters were not always respectful).

        Quote  Reply

    98. Nadia:
      LOL the actress who played Lyanna Stark’s tweet –

      https://twitter.com/AisFranciosi/status/747342019006074880

      Perfection.

      PS she really did have the Jon Snow look, no? The casting is just absurdly good on this show.

      I mentioned this after the episode and after a re-watch feel stronger, I think the casting for Lyanna was way, way off.
      The actress is absolutely beautiful and in images outside of GoT, does have a bit of the Arya look (since they are supposed to resemble each other) but, maybe it was the styling (of a woman dying, no less), I thought she looked like one of the Sand Snakes. She looked far more like the fruit of Oberyn’s loins than Rickard Stark. I think it was the olive complexion.
      And by no fault of the actress, since she is Italian, the accent was absolutely not English. So few lines, so it isn’t an issue really but the first time she spoke I knew she wasn’t English. I thought Spanish at first, until I looked her up.
      The casting of this show is unbeatable, it’s just one instance where it didn’t convince me.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Well, it was fun but pretty messy as the show is becoming more and more.
      Not entirely sure Dany with dragons, unsullied, dothrakia, Dorne and Tyrells against the Lannister army which has been in perpetual war since season 2 is a particularly fair fight. I do hope they make Dany earn the Throne as it’s looking like cakewalk at the moment. Fingers crossed Euron smashes the fleet up a bit and takes down a dragon to make it a more interesting fight.
      Can’t say I’m a fan of the feminist undertones. Dany, Yara, Sand Snakes, Queen of Thornes and two castrated men vs Cersei. And people were worried about women’s roles in the show?!
      Jaimes will kill Cersei. That little trick with the wildfire isn’t going to endear her to him especially as he’s already killed one ruler to prevent that kind of thing happening.
      Arya’s storyline has got silly now. She’s becomine a dislikable character now for me just because of the whole waste of time that was her in Braavos.
      I sense next season we’ll lose Cersei and Jaime and the final bit of business will be the Whitewalker vs the Jon/Dany forces. Just hope some of the more interesting characters are left by that point as Dany has become one of the more disliked heroines I can remember. Jon is walking a fine line but runs the risk of becoming completely whitewashed.
      Wonder where Gendry is.

        Quote  Reply

    100. kells: And by no fault of the actress, since she is Italian, the accent was absolutely not English. So few lines, so it isn’t an issue really but the first time she spoke I knew she wasn’t English. I thought Spanish at first, until I looked her up.
      The casting of this show is unbeatable, it’s just one instance where it didn’t convince me.

      She’s Irish.

        Quote  Reply

    101. I love The Game Revealed videos. They’re so great.

      Sad to lose such a great, strong, intelligent character like Margaery, who saw it coming and couldn’t get out of it. At least she and Loras went together.

      My favourite episode of the season, which has never happened with a finale for me before (especially as my 3 faves – Sandor, Jorah, and Jaqen were absent!). Hell yeah we need more Lyanna Mormont!!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    102. I am actually going to miss Margaery more than any other character in the show. Nathalie Dormer created a solid portrait of the young rose and I wish she could stay a bit longer.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Kells,

      I completely agree with this comment. Just a couple of episodes back Jaime was claiming that he would have burnt cities to the ground, killed innocent infants to be with Cersei and get revenge, because a Lannister ‘always pays his debts’. This is precisely what Cersei has done: she has removed the enemies that wanted her dead and everyone that had disrespected her – and she was still protecting both Tommen and Jaime by keeping them far away from the danger. I do think that it would be hypocritical of Jaime to label her a monster now, but this seems where the show is headed in any case.
      Cersei seems beyond love and pain now, she has nothing left to lose. She’s probably realized she’s already lost Jaime too.
      I really believe that Cersei genuinely meant to protect Tommen, but when he died she had already accepted her faith and had realized that her own destiny was to be accomplished soon.

      I think Cersei is by far the most interesting character in this show and I am excited to see what’s coming ahead. She will definitely die, eventually (hopefully not soon so we will get to see plenty of her as a Queen and as an opponent), and when she does I am kind of hoping that it will be Jaime’s doing, which also seems to be the most popular theory. I hope they will reunite at the very last moment and profess their love for each other before Jaime will take her life and then his own – finally making the second prophecy come true: neither can be without the other.

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    104. Cock Merchant: We probably won’t get an answer to that. Things like that bother me a bit. Writers apparently hate to spell things out for everyone, I get that and appreciate that for the most part, but when it’s about central character motivations than it’s a bit of a stretch. The dramatic decision to create conflict seems a bit heavy handed there.
      I guess we’re supposed to think that Littlefingers questioning of Jon’s loyalties were enough for him to sow distrust between Jon and Sansa, so this is Littlefinger playing them against each other. And of course the men around her don’t treat her as equal at all and she has very bad experiences with putting her trust in the men around her, who were never able or willing to care for her in the end, even someone like her father.
      So it may not necessarily be about trust in Jon’s loyalty but trust in his personality and ability to have her best interest at heart.

      It might be any of that or none. Because we don’t get that explanation it seems like a cheap dramatic trick. I think D&D don’t really think the audience cares that much, which for the most part is probably right.

      I am an admitted GoT fanboy who pretty much loves every second of this show from the very first scene in the first episode to the finale scene of Season 6. I love all storylines and never really complain about anything, but something just doesn’t sit well with me with the Sansa bit.

        Quote  Reply

    105. ThisGirlHasNoName:
      I don’t mind that the different scenes run on different timetables, but it would be helpful if the show occasionally dropped some hints as to relative timing. When stories merge, that’s when the timetables become more important.

      To make last night work, we have to assume that Varys left quite awhile before the masters attacked. That when QoT and Sand Snakes met, the coronation had already taken place. That Dany and Tyrion spent weeks (months?) preparing to depart Meereen.

      All of this is very believable. But a hint or two for perspective would be helpful to make it less jarring.

      For example, Tyrion could have something to Dany like, “it’s taken longer than we hoped, but the ships are finally ready. I hope to have word from Varys about the success of his mission soon.”

      Or QoT in Dorne saying, “I almost turned the ship around when we received word of the massacre in Kings Landing. But since I was almost here, let’s hear what you have to say.”

      Also, I think one of the reasons it seems jarring is the order of the scenes. Had we seen the coronation midway through the show, then we might more easily accept that some time passed when Qot is in Dorne. Instead, she arrives at Dorne to cut a deal to get revenge, and after we see the sept still smoldering and Jamie witnessing Cersei’s coronation.

      I don’t think we need to see travel/journeys to believe they happened, just some perspective. Especially when the narratives merge.

      But, I’ve accepted that we might just have to suspend disbelief to enjoy this incredible production.

      Varys left for Dorne 2 episodes ago. It’s not like he went to Dorne and back to Meereen in 1 episode.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Nadia:
      Am I the only one who doesn’t think Lyanna whispered a name at all?

      I thought she was just saying “it’s Rhager and my son” or something like that. and then she goes into Ned having to protect him.

      And Bran obviously heard, right?

      No. I was surprised when I saw people tryna work out what name she gave. I mean she was dying…only concern was to get Ned to protect her son – why would she start by naming??

      Maybe “I’ve had a son” or “It’s a boy” or something…

      After what Ned sacrificed for his sister – and his honorable life in general of trying to do best by the good ppl, and remocing the evil – I really hope he gets iconic status in all Westeros.

      Lyanna Mormont’s menton of “Ned Stark’s blood” in Jon’s veins to rally the North made me tear up (Manderly’s mention of King Robb made it worse!).

      Oh I hate Joffrey all over again!!!

        Quote  Reply

    107. Nadia,

      Why is it irritating AF for Tyrion to suggest diplomacy rather than simply burning everything to the ground. The former tends to build more long lasting support, the latter tends to get you stabbed in the back by Jaimie Lannister.

        Quote  Reply

    108. I know there is 0% chance of it ever happening but I would love to see a scene between Olena Tyrell and Lyanna Mormont. Sparks would fly!! That little girl could hold her own with the old bat and knock her down a peg or two. LOL LOL LOL

        Quote  Reply

    109. Nadia,

      It shows that even with all the power wants to compromise and listen to others and value the others opinions ..open to an alliance and compromise..

        Quote  Reply

    110. Soooo, Ghost is still at Castle Black?

      I know wolf CGI costs are expensive, but we couldn’t have a single siting of Ghost in passing in Winterfell? Maybe just trotting by in the background? Perhaps sitting at Jon’s feet in the great hall? Chewing on Ramsey’s femur? No?

      Jon is only the White Wolf because Ghost allows him to be The White Wolf. Harumph.

        Quote  Reply

    111. ThisGirlHasNoName,

      You’re right, the show has so many good things that it becomes a very little problem in comparison, but still, one has to question what are the boundaries. There is space and time and both are important for the storytelling, specially in a world so big and well constructed. To stop caring for this as people are professing is worrisome as it opens space for a lot of plot contrivance, mistakes and a poor tying of archs in the script. I’m totally ready to accept Arya or anyone else being here in one shot just to be there in the next, but that does affect the functioning of the history, don’t matter what (like distances losing importance)

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    112. Love it. Better yet, a whole mock video of Ghost singing Lionel Richie’s ‘Hello’ to Jon! Although the CGI for that migh……. DAMN IT!

        Quote  Reply

    113. Have to post this here, in the post-mortem thread, because David and Dan mentioned how we’re supposed to be worried at how much the scene mirrors Robb becoming King in the North.

      I’ve forgotten so much, and it still makes me emotional (Richard Madden’s eyes!)

      But Theon bending the knee and giving the same line as Lyanna Mormont, “from this day until my/his last day.”

      And the way Robb/Jon turns to look at Cat/Sansa in emotion, and they both smile but also look very somber.

      WATCH

      The one thing it also completely reinforces, though, is that Jon Snow is actually nothing like Robb Stark, even if they want the viewers to think it's this direct parallel.

      Jon Snow sacrifices what he wants most, almost every single time, for what's the greater good and what's the right thing to do. Leaves Ygritte to go back to the Night's Watch, refuses Stannis' offer to become Lord of Winterfell.

      Robb Stark wouldn't give up what he wanted and he led the North to ruin.

      Robb Stark wouldn't listen and execute Karstark, when everyone around him told him not to, because Robb wanted to make an example of those that didn't follow his lead.

      Jon Snow tells Lord Glover, a lord who turned his back on them (the now victors) and kicked them out to the curb, "there's nothing to forgive my lord."

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    114. GOT Fan,

      Oh wow… I did not consider that. We need a whole episode or spinoff show with just those two! They can tour Westeros together verbally slaying all in their path. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    115. Sean C.,

      Sean, thanks for sharing. Insightful.

      I just noticed …

      Jon’s statement during the KiTN moment in the Hall at Winterfell … “The True Enemy brings the storm”

      And then Euron’s “I am the storm”

      Probably nothing …

        Quote  Reply

    116. Aryamad:
      GOT Fan,

      Oh wow… I did not consider that. We need a whole episode or spinoff show with just those two! They can tour Westeros together verbally slaying all in their path. ?

      I would ABSOLUTELY tune in for that.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Jack Bauer 24,

      Thats just one example, and he at least left for Dorne two episodes earlier. The show is fantastic but it leaves more to be desired for some of us concerning continuity of tinelines, particularly within single episodes, is all.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Laura,

      I’d like Bender to come back, too, but I think he made a long term commitment to another series (I think it’s a Stephen King collaboration). He seems iffy to return, unfortunately.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Sean C.,

      Two things that struck me

      1) Some people on this site – Wimsey I think – have posited that maybe we’ll learn about the Others’ culture, maybe there’s some sort of negotiating, etc. It seems really clear that the show isn’t going to really go that route. The Others are Death, just like they were Death and needed to be destroyed in the last Long Night

      2) It’s equally clear when D&D talk about “the end” that the end they have planned out is not going to be GRRM’s end. Talking about things growing organically in the last 6 years and all the little changes they’ve made that have expanded (like the wings of a butterfly), I don’t think it’s possible that they will come to the same end. And maybe as a deference to him, the show will actually end differently enough from the books to be considered distinct.

      The show has also ignored so much of the mystical element, the prophecies, so much of the book that I don’t think GRRM plans to ignore.

        Quote  Reply

    120. KingintheNorth,

      Sure as hell hope that Arya does not get rid of the only two people who can resurrect the dead because her brother might need that again someday. Especially with that little conniving bitch Littlefinger hanging around

        Quote  Reply

    121. Nadia,

      Till last year, D&D were talking about how they would reach the same ending as Martin, even though the route they take to get there may be different. It’s only recently that they said that the show would not really spoil the books. So either, some things in S6 changed so drastically from where the books are headed that they now feel the ending will defer, or else they are saying it out of consideration for Martin so that people may not be discouraged from buying the last 2 books. I feel the latter is more likely. And the end game for at least the big 7 characters will ultimately be the same in both mediums. The road they take to get there will probably be very different and the fates of the secondary characters might also be vastly different. Also probably a lot of the mythology that is part of the books might either be either be entirely missing from the show or watered down (the different prophecies).

        Quote  Reply

    122. After reading some of the recaps of the finale, it seems that everyone agrees on the parallel between Cersei and the Mad King, which would make her the Mad Queen. Am I the only one that does not really believe that she has got mad though? Her plan was perfectly calculated and she removed effectively all her enemies in few seconds. She did not burn the city for no reason like the Mad King wanted to.
      I can see why we could see the parallel due to the use of the wildfire, but still I do not see her actually becoming mad. She has always been paranoic, true, but in this case they were actually about to end her life and all of them (Margeary included, and Tommen even if not willingly) were conspiring against her.
      She might become mad now that she has lost her last son, but for the time being I think this was actually just a quite resourceful plan, what do you think?

        Quote  Reply

    123. Nadia,

      1) that should mean wimsey and all those who are speculating it would end with negotiation is wrong..

      2)the end game for big characters should be same and there will be spoilers in the show..
      Even GRRm said there will be spoilers and D&D said they will keep the key points and destination same but the path may be different..
      But just how they reach in the show may be different..

      For example .,I expect jon to be going for the battle against Ramsey and sansa arrive with LF to save the day and jon to be named KITN but show did it differently..

      Regarding prophecies and mystical elements ..the show as just made dany TSWMTW who united all the dothraki into one khalasar and also have another rebirth scene and three fires thing from HOTu..
      They may not go on in detail but we can understand what they are doing ..

      I always believed TWOW should be enough to know about the whole story and from there we can make use of the show’s ending as it will be easy to understand once all those loose threads are tied and removed in TWOW …so TWOW Will help lot in terms of both books and show and understanding the story as a whole and where it’s headed.

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    124. <a
      She wears it well. I think most of the named cast have been wearing the same clothes. Look what happened when everyone got gussied up on Sunday day.;)

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    125. Margaery and Loras were one of the saddest deaths for me on the show. Out of numerous twisted nobles, these were actually uncommonly decent people, who unlike others had healthy family relationships and weren’t sociopaths or murderers.
      So much happened later in the episode but that horrific deaths by wildfire haunted me for the rest of it. Margaery didn’t deserve that, so sad she ‘lost the game’ because she wasn’t ruthlessly cruel but happened to cross paths with a person who was.
      So yes, this episode gave us a beautifully executed heart-break. Going to miss Natalie Dormer 🙁

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    126. Anton,

      I completely agree. I was gutted that Margeary didn’t manage to get out of the Sept, especially as she had cottoned on that their lives were in danger.

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    127. It was an excellent episode. I think I’m able of being objective as I absolutely hated the crowded and cliffhanger-stuffed finale of last season. This time the finale gave closure to many open plots while giving us enough excitement for the next season. To be honest, I have never been as excited over an upcoming season as I´m now but that mostly to do with the fact that the next season will truly be the season that makes us all Unsullied.

      The scenes in the King’s Landing were executed flawlessly. Even most movies can´t reach the suspension and cinematic beauty that they created with the music and direction. Especially Tommen’s suicide was beautiful. After such a bombastic scene the coldness of him just stripping off his crown and jumping down was a perfect contrast. Cersei really stoled the spotlight in this season with her coronation. Everything about it from lighting and clothing to her acting was on point. I’m not he biggest fan of the guy who plays Jaime because he seems too nice a guy for a role that ought to have a dark edge but even he managed to bring a sinister tone to his eyes aimed at Cersei. It was simply perfect. At times I think they should have highlighted her spiral to madness more since now she comes off as more of a tough bitch but then again, her future crazy antics will surprise people more this way.

      And that brings us to Arya, the sweet little girl who lost her soul to darkness after witnessing the horrors of war. This is another character fans rallied for claiming she’s an empowering character when truly she’s just a tragic victim. Finally the reality is hitting those viewers since I’ve seen so many comments about Arya going too far. Her short appearance this episode hit all the marks because now everyone understands what the character is about.

      So we have two victorius characters whose victories send a chill down my spine. How far will these women go? Will Cersei blow up entire King’s Landing when Dany lands turning all of her hard-earned forces into dust in one big, green explosion? Can Arya ever return to her honorable Stark roots or she doomed to lose herself in her quest for revenge?

      The northern storyline became a predictable snoozefest the moment Sansa and Jon met and this episode was no different in that regard. I loved how the King in the north -scene reminded us of Robb and his demise. It gave such a positive and victorius moment a bit of uncertainty and fear which I liked.

      The scenes between Dany and Tyrion were sweet and for the first time their conversation felt genuine. The final scene left me cold, though. I´ve been waiting for years to see that scene, but it could have used a few bits of dialogue. Would have been nice to hear how Dany feels about going to her homeland or how Tyrion feels about returning to the place that treated him horribly. This would have raised the emotional impact of the scene tremendously. Varys being on board was questionable but I understand that they wanted a scene where all of Dany’s forces were on the same screen. My biggest problem, however, is that they didn’t tell us how the first meeting with Dany and Varys went or how Tyrion took the information of his sister using wildfire and causing Tommen’s death.

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    128. Guys, just a little off-topic information:

      This article on the brazilian website Estadão claims that Season 6 DVDs and Blu-Rays will be released on Brazil in November 10th.

      Apparently, they got this information from Warner, which is the official distributor in the country. And here, the DVDs usually are available on march of each year.

      Are there any other news regarding this early release?

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    129. ygritte: It’s equally clear when D&D talk about “the end” that the end they have planned out is not going to be GRRM’s end. Talking about things growing organically in the last 6 years and all the little changes they’ve made that have expanded (like the wings of a butterfly), I don’t think it’s possible that they will come to the same end. And maybe as a deference to him, the show will actually end differently enough from the books to be considered distinct.

      It depends on how general you want to be. I think the big set pieces, particularly in E09 and E10, are highly probable of reflecting something in TWOW.

      1: Hold-the-door
      2: Cersei burns the Sept or KL in general, Tommen dies (I like the suicide element, hope it is kept), kills a bunch of her enemies, takes the throne
      3: Team Stark captures Winterfell with the help of the Vale and Littlefinger
      4: Dany wins the Battle of Fire, sets sail for Westeros
      5: Arya kills Walder Frey

      I also suspect Margaery’s toying with the Faith has book roots. Pretty much anything else found this season was either AFFC/ADWD leftovers, or likely D&D original. And of course, the detail will be entirely different even if the basic outcome was the same.

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    130. Having spend the last 24 hours reading as much as possible on this site, watching interviews and YouTube videos I’m left with these thoughts…..

      Episode 10 blew me away, ticked every box and I really couldn’t care less about time travel, and small details which don’t translate well for some. This is a complex and enormous story and the writers, directors, producers, crew and cast have poured all their talent into what is an incredibly difficult job, a television adaptation of books of such volume, complexity and calibre. Job bloody well done!!! A heartfelt thank you from a big fan here ???

      This episode was so intelligently done. Pulling together all the strands and delivering a powerful punch but still leaving the viewer with so much to look forward to and wonder…..what next?!!

      Kings Landing

      The most chilling scene for me was Septa Unella’s punishment at the hands of Cersei and then the Mountain. OMG!! I wanted to run screaming from the room.
      Cersei is now a megalomaniac driven by nothing but hate and my guess is that Jaime will fall out of love rather quickly with his sister, who he no longer recognises.
      The people of KL were behind the HS and the faith militant as they were a voice for the lowborn. Cersei has no friends or allies. I’ve never seen a more miserable looking crowd at a coronation. I don’t expect her hold on the throne to last long, even without taking Dany’s military might into account.

      Meereen

      It’s all come together at last for Dany, with the Tyrell and Martell forces on board, the Greyjoys, the Dothraki, the Unsullied, the dragons, and a decent Hand along with the best spymaster. How is Cersei going to withstand a force like that? She can’t surely.

      Winterfell

      The King in the North!!! Wow, that scene was the ultimate pay off for me. Sansa is not a leader. She’s a survivor and she is learning to play the game. However, Littlefinger is the master game player. Jon and Sansa have a viper in the nest and you have to worry for Jon. But then that’s the whole point, when have we not worried for Jon? The reluctant hero who makes mistakes, is naive, but always fighting to do the right thing. The irony is he is not Ned’s son. However, as Ned said “You may not have my name, but you have my blood” That’s is very true. He is more like Ned than the other Stark children despite being his nephew and not his son.

      This is all pure speculation…..
      The Key

      The key as regards the war to come against the WWs and the undead armies. Logically infighting at some point has to go out of the window when the realm realises they face an enemy intent on wiping them out. How can they unite given the time honoured animosity and power struggles up to now?

      Tyrion is the key to the link between House Stark and House Targayen.

      Right from the beginning, Tyrion has been placed and seen in places which have allowed him to build positive relationships with the Starks. Bran’s saddle, his kindness to Sansa, his trip to the wall and helpful advice and friendliness to Jon. Why did they bother having Tyrion go to the wall at all if not to foster that connection between those two?

      Jon is actually half Targaryen. Bran is crucial to the fight against the WW and up to now the only one being given the truth about Jon’s parentage. Of what significance is Jon’s parentage? There must be one.

      So I can see an alliance between House Stark and House Targaryen is a possibility. The Starks ruled the North during Targaryen times. Dany thinks she is alone in the world family wise. She isn’t. If she finds out Jon is her nephew, and he finds out he is Raegar’s son, isn’t that a bond that could be an influence. Tyrion is not Hand of the Queen without good reason and his earlier positive interactions with three of the four living Starks, reinforces that view for me.

      As an aside there is another connection.
      Jorah is devoted to Dany and is of House Mormont, now strongly allied with House Stark.

      Anyway, just my musings. I do love to try and work out what could happen, even if I’m completely wrong ?

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    131. Dunno where to mention this…but an important detail with regards who will secure the war vs NK is that the 3ER was a Targaryen and has been replaced by a Stark – Is that significant since Ice is of the Starks abd Fire the Targs…and Far North being frozen…a Stark belongs there…

      Also – all the talk of Daeny’s army…but in a battlefield how can spear wielding Unsullied or Armourless Dothraki stand a chance vs a proper disciplined Westerosi army!?!

      Unsullied can patrol cities and guard…Dothraki can plunder… but battle – naaah.

      Also has there been discussion on Daenys possible tactics of conquest yet….wheres her first stop etc??

      Halfman,
      You got me thinking….if Mormont is as significant as it seems…maybe Jorah does get cured and joins his House – hooefully King Jon will give him Longclaw too!!

      With some talk of Jon’s Lightbringer being Dawn – maybe Longclaw gets to go back where it belonged?!?

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    132. Jack Bauer 24,

      The tension between sansa and jon is exactly what u dont wanna see and accept , shes does not think eh should rule the north and shes going to turn eventually against him , its been build up and foreshadowed the entire season . Shes clearly tempted by littlefinger offer of power and i think that other starks could die in the future .

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    133. Some points that need to be remembered:
      1) House Tyrell isn’t dead at all. Olenna is still doing her thing, and the ACTUAL heir is alive and well in Highgarden, her eldest grandson Garlan (who you recall was a suitor for Sansa)

      2) Lena likely said Jamie won’t be the one to kill Cersei since he’ll be dead before she is…and Arya could use another “face” to strangle her, and uphold the prophecy.

      Ps. get over the “jump pack/teleporter” thing…it’s kinda beat at this point. Time is not relative on the show, just as the book isn’t told in relative order either.

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    134. Trust No One: and the ACTUAL heir is alive and well in Highgarden, her eldest grandson Garlan (

      This must be book stuff, who the heck is Garlan? On the show, the line is done, over.

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    135. Thronetender,

      it’s not a book thing.
      Olenna was trying to get Sansa out of Kings Landing, and she wanted her to marry Garlan and move to Highgarden. Sansa was upset because Garlan is crippled (badly broken leg) and was very opposed to the idea. Garlan wouldn’t have traveled to Kings Landing for the trial, and no one has been cast for that role.

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    136. Did anyone else think Cersei’s black outfit with the silver chain and crystal ring was incredible.. I usually don’t even notice or care about stuff like that. She looked amazing.. when it panned away from her sitting on the throne with all the Queen’s guard, looked like it could of been a painting or something.. wow!

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    137. KingSnow!LordCrow,

      I have always thought Dawn was Lightbringer and if Jon is Azor Ahai then he has to be the son of House Dayne, with either Ashara being his mother or Arthur being his father, as only a worthy member of House Dayne can wield Dawn and bear the title Sword of the Morning. I think you are on to something with Longclaw being returned to House Mormont, either to Jorah or Lyanna.

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    138. Sacred Lime,

      Oh yeah my jaw dropped immediately when I saw it. Amazing work by the wardrobe department. She looked so regal and scary at the same time. All hail Cersei, the new Queen of Goth.

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    139. KingSnow!LordCrow,

      I’m not sure where she’s going first. I automatically assumed it was KL. if so, Tyrion isn’t going to be keen on using the dragons to torch the city and all the small folk.

      Yes interesting one 3ER was a Targ and the next a Stark. There are a lot of strong connections between both families which as yet haven’t come into play.
      I think Jorah may have sought a cure in Oldtown as it is the seat of learning, and I doubt he’s out of the game.

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    140. Trust No One,

      It’s a book thing mate. Garlan and Willas don’t exist in the show.

      Loras is the heir to Highgarden and it is to him that Olenna wants to marry Sansa.
      You are confusing the book with the show.

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    141. Pprincessmaria,

      i think “Lightbringer is the sword “HeartsBane” and that Jon will get it from Sam. The sword Dawn is important, why else show it so prominently at the foot of Lyanna”s bed but I dont think Jons father is Aurther Dane

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    142. I’ll add my two cents about Lightbringer. I think it will end up being Oathkeeper.

      Azor’s failed attempts to forge the blade in water and the heart of a lion reminds me of Oathkeeper’s transistion, Ice–> reforged by Tywin (lion)—–> who the hell knows. Also thanks to Tywin there are now red ripples through the steel.

      Spoiler code, can’t remember if the history of Lightbringer was mentioned in the show yet.

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    143. KingSnow!LordCrow,

      Also – all the talk of Daeny’s army…but in a battlefield how can spear wielding Unsullied or Armourless Dothraki stand a chance vs a proper disciplined Westerosi army!?

      Is there one left? Jamie’s? 8,000 versus that many Unsullied plus the Dothraki. What happened to Mace’s in KL (not that there were that many men at the Sept when they tried to take Margaery)? What happened to the rest of Renly’s Great Army?

      Theoretically I agree with you and from a book perspective I agree with you.. But from what the show has shown in the past few seasons, the North could only muster 8,000 – 9,000 total for the Battle of the Bastards. Many of those died. The Vale has a few thousand. How many can stand ground and fight? The Bolton soldiers who were slaughtered. Not the rest of the Northern/Wildling troops. The Freys, not a disciplined army, etc.

      Westeros is depleted after years of war. Winter has arrived. People have not been able to harvest crops due to the war.

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    144. Michel:
      Ser Broccoli McBroccoliface,

      They do the timelines on the show like GRRM does in the books. Everything you see isn’t happening the same day, scenes could be weeks or months apart.

      Thats pretty clear. The Olenna and Jaime scenes, and the Varys scenes make that the only conclusion that makes any sense. They just dont set it up at all. Its a minor criticism but people here think it means I hate the show, or so it seems.

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    145. Nadia,

      I think the parallels between Jon/Robb and Sansa/Cat are really incredibly done. I agree with you, though, that while the scenes are almost identical, they’re also trying to parallel the differences. Robb’s selfishness vs Jon’s sacrificial character and, perhaps, Cat’s betrayal/susceptibility to LF and Sansa’s loyalty/knowledge of the game and LF? The latter is harder to guess, but it’s a great scene.

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    146. Just and observation that It seems like only females get the important kills, the revenge type kills:
      Brieanne vs Stannis… Arya vs Waif vs Walder Frey/And Sons…. Cersi vs Eveyone in the Sept(Lots of kills)… The women of Dorne vs Doran…Sansa vs Ramsey…
      I was just thinking of this while reading thru this article and the comments below. Not sure what to make of it. But it is certainly becoming a theme. I think we can assume that Littlefinger and Cerci will be killed by a female. Interesting…

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    147. RobertStarkWazHere,

      Referring to revenge/justice kills there’s Tyrion vs Tywin of course and Jon vs Thorne and other NW murderers, but generally it’s true.

      Arya has gotten that part several times:
      – Frey soldier that participated in “Robb Wind” (first real kill other than the somewhat accidental stable boy)
      – Polliver (and the other lackey in the bar with him)
      – Rorge
      – Trant
      – the waif
      – Walder and sons

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    148. Chad Brick:
      I also suspect Margaery’s toying with the Faith has book roots. Pretty much anything else found this season was either AFFC/ADWD leftovers, or likely D&D original. And of course, the detail will be entirely different even if the basic outcome was the same.

      Actually I think it’s fAegon and wife (Arianne?) who will embrace the Faith. This is probably an example of how D&D check off plot event boxes while keeping the story and cast smaller and more manageable.

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    149. Direwolf Lvr: I prefer going with wimpy and leaving Edmure right were he is. He gave up his home, his Uncle, his army and his honor for a child he’s never seen, and a Frey wife he’s spent one night with. A FREY, for goodness sake. You’d think he wouldn’t give two shits about his Frey “wife” or their 1/2 Frey spawn after they massacred his family and his people, and kept him in a dark, dank cell for years. Years of stewing about all of that would seem to wipe any lingering paternal feelings for an unseen 1/2 Frey child clean off the map. For all he knows, the “wife” was in on it too. Go figure.

      I disagree with this. In my opinion, Edmure retook command of his castle and surrendered it to Jaime to not only save an innocent baby (his son) from a horrific death. But also to protect his house and his liege-men. Don’t forget that Jaime’s threats also included *the complete annihilation of every single Tully within those walls* if he had to take it by force instead of peaceful surrender.

      Edmure had to take the chance of saving as many people as he could, over the certain (in his mind) death of everyone if he didn’t surrender.

      It was the Blackfish who was making a stupid stubborn stand. He was willing for everyone to die needlessly, all for his foolish pride.

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    150. Jack Bauer 24,

      So Sansa apologized to Jon, but still didn’t say why she didn’t tell him about the Vale army. She didn’t trust him ok…she didn’t trust what though? That he was going to double cross her and sell the info? Tell Ramsay? Like wtf i seriously don’t understand this.

      The only thing he could have done with the info was slightly delay his march on Winterfell, thereby saving many lives and not winding up looking like he had lost the battle.

      Of course, if she wanted him to look like a loser out there, then the thing to do was NOT tell him about the Vale, which is exactly what she did.

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    151. Succubint,

      Edmure had to take the chance of saving as many people as he could, over the certain (in his mind) death of everyone if he didn’t surrender.

      Right. It was kind of like Jon’s choice with Rickon. Of course Edmure didn’t trust Jaime – any more than Jon trusted Ramsey – he simply couldn’t call Jaime’s bluff with his child’s life and the lives of his men. There was no other reasonable choice for him.

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    152. KingSnow!LordCrow,

      She said “His name is….” I have to leave the rest up to the trained lip readers….although, I do think she said Azor…something, something…

      The only reason she’d be telling Nedd the baby’s name is if that name is significant. In this world, I suppose all names are significant, though.

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    153. Che,

      Loved that end scene. Dany is finally heading home! I cannot wait for her to get there

      I think she’s already there…. in Westerosi waters, that is. It wouldn’t make any sense for the Tyrell and Sunspear ships to make the arduous voyage to Mereen only to turn around and sail right back again. Dany must have met them at Dorne. Maybe she weighted anchor there and even went ashore to take on supplies and rest and plan (and pick up Varys) before the final assault on KL.

      It’s risky though, because Cersai has spies everywhere.

      I think she may have been inside the Narrow Sea…very close!

        Quote  Reply

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