The Game of Thrones cast on season 7 stakes and on-set antics

Pilou
We’re less than two weeks away from season 7 and the Game of Thrones cast interviews are here! Teasing season 7 epicness, spilling on each others’ foibles and resolutely not disclosing spoilers, Sophie Turner, Liam Cunningham, Pilou Asbæk, Gemma Whelan, and others are here to get us even more psyched!

In lieu of plot details, BuzzFeed asked Sophie Turner, Gemma Whelan, Pilou Asbæk, Aidan Gillen, Rory McCann, John Bradley, Carice van Houten, Liam Cunningham, Daniel Portman and Jacob Anderson to dish on their fellow cast members.

Amidst the fun and occasionally goofy answers (Portman suspects that Jaime would take the best selfies with his golden hand, if given the chance), we almost had an important plot detail given away when Asbæk was asked which actor was most likely to brighten up everyone’s day. “Oh, I was just about to do a spoiler!” he said. “I was so close to saying her name!”

A few Q&As that didn’t make it to the final edit of the video were gif-ed and transcribed below in Buzzfeed’s article. Cunningham had a lot to say about his makeup process (or lack thereof) in contrast to Carice van Houten’s lengthy preparation time.

“No, there’s nothing [the makeup team can do for me now],” he said. “I had to beg for a head transplant. They haven’t got the budget. I literally walk in… I have a shower, obviously, before I come to work and I literally sit down in the chair, like that. And I get a sponge with some dirt on it and I do that [pats his own face], and then I’m shoved out the door.”

In a more serious collection of interviews with Sky Cable, the cast teased the ever-rising stakes our beloved characters will be facing next season.

“The threat is as bad as anything we’ve ever had,” Cunningham said. “The Night King is on his way with a 10,000 of the undead and there’s no single army that has a defense.”

169 responses

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    1. I certainly wish we had more access to the Sky Atlantic interviews. They are so much better than anything the HBO after the show program provides and far more entertaining.

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    2. Pilou’s such a hottie. I can’t remember who linked these this morning, but the gif of he and Gemma Whelan had me hitting repeat a few times. Daniel Portman and Jacob Anderson too. 😊

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    3. Most likely to show up hungover should be Kit considering all the times he’s been photographed with a pint.

      The Jon Snow impersonations were on point!

      Aidan Gillen is one sexy mofo. Sucks that LF is such a creepy character.

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    4. Ryan:
      Where the 7.01 title at???

      They are titled “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc according to TV guide. There are no titles this year.

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    5. well one interview that made me very happy was from paula fairfield, the members of the production are really praising season 7, lovin it. she spoke about scenes with wolfs, the lots of dragon scenes, the amazing action scenes that put even hardhome like a kids play, that season 8 can have every episode more than 70minutes. absurdely hype interview. since just a small part of the cast hype us, and dd an the rest don say noting, im happy with that a lot.

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    6. Aguero:
      well one interview that made me very happy was from paula fairfield, the members of the production are really praising season 7, lovin it. she spoke about scenes with wolfs, the lots of dragon scenes, the amazing action scenes that put even hardhome like a kids play, that season 8 can have every episode more than 70minutes. absurdely hype interview.since just a small part of the cast hype us, and dd an the rest don say noting, im happy with that a lot.

      Its never been this quiet 13 days from the premiere.

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    7. Wow I totally thought, Pilou was Alfie for awhile. Clean shaven, they look so similar. Great casting.

      I could definitely see Kit coming to work hungover more than once, he appears to go out drinking often after a day of shooting.

      I think Pilou was talking about either Emilia Clarke or Lena Headey, they both seem to be happy fun girls.

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    8. cuddley crow:
      I certainly wish we had more access to the Sky Atlantic interviews. They are so much better than anything the HBO after the show program provides and far more entertaining.

      True. I’ve tried to watch After the Thrones, but just can’t stand it. I’d rather be here reading the comments, analysis, and Twitter round up!

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    9. Ashara D: True. I’ve tried to watch After the Thrones, but just can’t stand it. I’d rather be here reading the comments, analysis, and Twitter round up!

      After the Thrones was canceled. It will now live stream on Twitter.

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    10. Mel,

      Right before season 3 starting filming Kit Harrington broke his ankle trying to get in his house after a night of drinking….

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    11. Lyanna_Targaryen:
      Aguero,

      She couldn’t appear in a flashback? I can have hope for the Harrenhall tourney, don’t ruin this for me!

      I think season 8 will have an episode showing the Great Tourney at Harrenhall. It will be a huge epic scene longer than the purple wedding and the fighting pits at meereen. I hope they don’t cut it in two parts like the Tower of joy scenes but they probably will.

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    12. Lyanna_Targaryen:
      “Her” name. If naming “her” is a spoiler, I wonder who “her” could be…..

      *cough* actress who plays Lyanna*cough*

      Tinfoil hat on.

      Lady Stoneheart !!! Said with tongue in cheek – hehe 😀

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    13. Jack Bauer 24,

      Chill out Bro – I can’t believe that! Just that HBO are winding us fans up and not releasing what the episode titles will be until the last minute 😉

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    14. Jezus, I just found out in the Netherlands the episodes will be aired 24 hours after they air in America. Are they &€@?#% kidding me?!

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    15. Tensor the Mage (Whose Crystal Ball Is Looking Less Waterford And More Goodwill All The Time) says:

      They are titled “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc according to TV guide. There are no titles this year.

      Au contraire! Here they all are, in reverse order for your countdown pleasure:

      7.07 Making the 8th Season
      7.06 Vanishing Valonquar
      7.05 The Prince Who Was Bromanced
      7.04 Unboned, Unlaid, Unsullied
      7.03 The Larch
      7.02 Death Be Not Weary, For We Have Another Season To Go

      Drumroll please!

      7.01 A Golden Bronn

      You’re welcome!

      Now stop asking.

      Please.

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    16. Sansa gets so much interviews and mentions these days you’d think she’s the main main character of the show. She very well could be. Who knows? Nobody knows if Martin has switched out his original story line.

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    17. Lyanna_Targaryen,

      The only female actor on GoT he follows on Instagram besides Gemma is Indira Varma.

      So I’d say Indira, who also seems like a lovely and charming person.

      If not then

      Queen Lena.

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    18. ghost of winterfell,

      My guess is it’s either

      Indira or Lena. He does imply that he had lots of scenes with the actress, and those two are the only possibilities based on the leaks. Indira is also the only female GoT cast member besides Gemma who Pilou follows on Instagram. I’m sure Emilia doesn’t own the monopoly on lighting up the work place lmao.

      ygritte,

      To D&D this is Game of Sansas. Where’s Clob when you need him?

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    19. ghost of winterfell,

      She may very well be or someone else too. ..reason I didn’t mention lena is we do see the greyjoy ships approaching Kl in the trailer …so its hardly spoiler since we all discussed that in the breakdown of that trailer..

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    20. ygritte,

      Its been happening for three years now its hardly surprising

      Looking at the promotions in my country you will think that she and Jon snow are the only two people who are major characters in the show

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    21. Now I wonder who are the most popular and promoted GoT characters in each country. It seems like such a fascinating topic. And in which countries GoT is or isn’t popular and why.

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    22. Tbh I felt like he wasn’t talking about an actress but wanted to make a joke about a plot point involving a certain character. That’s either Dany (lighting things up with dragon fire) or Cersei with wildfire, obviously. I’d prefer the latter :’)

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    23. Jack Bauer 24: They are titled “Episode 1”, “Episode 2”, etc according to TV guide. There are no titles this year.

      Stop! LOL! TV Guide will update their listings once HBO announces the titles.

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    24. dragonbringer,
      Flayed Potatoes,

      What country are you in? I don’t have a great memory but I think last season Sophie and Maisie were highlighted mostly equally. But Sophie got more publicity because of the controversial scene. Liam was out there talking kind of a lot. Jon Snow came up a lot of course due to the cliffhanger but he didn’t feature in any of the trailers or promo material. Over here in the US if hard pressed I believe most people would say Danaerys is the face of the show. Of course, the viewers I personally know who watch are all men from work and one neighbor and it seems they do for mostly superficial reasons and when I bring up a minor character’s name they don’t know who I’m talking about, or if I try to speak more of the plot intricacies/theories they aren’t too invested in that aspect. Which is why I love this place 🙂

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    25. Not sure if any1 has thought of this yet but would the opening credits of season 7 be the first time the camera doesn’t pan to Essos …. will be different for sure

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    26. Flayed Potatoes,

      That’s interesting. Has Pilou ever worked with Indira? I have never seen any interview of hers, so I don’t have much idea of her personality-wise. Lena seems a real blast though.

      dragonbringer,

      Pilou would likely not have been aware to what extent the trailer spoiled stuff, at the time of giving this interview. Most people would not have studied the trailer the way we do here anyways lol.

      He could have been talking about Emilia, I just felt that Lena was more likely.

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    27. Sansa’s Knight:
      Not sure if any1 has thought of this yet but would the opening credits of season 7 be the first time the camera doesn’t pan to Essos …. will be different for sure

      I’m looking forward to seeing Oldtown on the credits.

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    28. Rory and Pilou shaved!
      Oh No!
      Do this mean they don’t act in season 8?
      The Hound and Euron will die?
      And when Rory says: “you get what you want”
      Does this mean there will be the Cleganebowl and thats his end?

      Hey guys: how long does it need to grow a beard?
      Will there be enough time till the filming starts for season 8?

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    29. Wolfish,

      Thanks! I just clicked on the link and watched Kristian N’s Hodor-parody KFC commercial.

      But surely you know what my immediate response was…

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    30. ygritte,

      Iam from India and only this year I have been watching promos here ..I believe dany and tyrion was face of the show up to season 3 and tyrion maybe even after that considering season 4 and 5 of his arc…Jon has been face of the show since season 4 and they have been promoting sansa ever since she came down those steps at vale in season 4..
      Arya and cersei for me seems to get the same level of promotions every seasons as major second tier characters ..
      I agree with what you say about this place and that’s why I also loved westeros.org before .
      It has become very popular here but before the show started it was difficult to speak to someone about the books ..

      I think most of the times other cast members were busy shooting other projects and can’t do these promotions and it may look like that she is getting for more promtions ….i for one want to see the old crew with emilia lena peter kit and maybe even michelle fairley and richard madden and jason momoa doing the comic con

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    31. Zoyoguba,

      Differs per person but normally not very long. For the short beards such as Jon’s and similar just a couple weeks. For heavy scruff we’re talking days.

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    32. zod: And Emilia Clarke hasn’t said “Get hype” once in her interviews. Not once!

      Really weird. Eerily quiet just 12 days from the premiere.

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    33. Clob,

      Feel free to withhold comment until after the epic Sansa-Brienne-DouchebagFinger rant that’s about to erupt as soon as I finish working my way out of the rabbit hole I dove into thanks to the recent “opinion” of that mindless twit Aidan Gillen that LF recognized Arya at Harrenhall.

      For all the talk about LF betraying Ned, it’s nothing compared to what he did to Catelyn. Either Brienne really is a “dumb bitch” and couldn’t put 2 and 2 together, or Sansa would rather be “a fool [who] would trust LF” than a Stark who cared about her mother and sister.

      PS Didn’t Catelyn and Sansa both make the same vow to Brienne, ie:

      “I pledge to ask no service of you that might bring you dishonor. I swear it by the old gods and the new.”

      If so, I cannot fathom how Brienne didn’t tell Sansa during their S6 jaunt to Molestown:

      “Lady Sansa, the oaths I swore to you and to your mother compel me to advise you that if I allow this duplicitous f*ckwit to take another breath it would bring me dishonor. Therefore, I shall be lopping his head off in 5, 4, 3…”

      The worst part of it all is that if Brienne was a little slow on the uptake, Hot Pie gave her critical intel that would’ve erased all doubt about LF’s treachery aimed at Catelyn; but Brienne rushed him to give “the quick version” of a critical chronology of Arya’s whereabouts, and obviously didn’t bother to think about what Hot Pie had imparted to her.

      Also: promo photos show Brienne at WF. Sansa and LF are there too. So far, I’ve only seen pictures of Arya traveling. But she seemed to be quite determined when she announced to Jaqen 2.0 that “A girl is Arya Stark of Winterfell, and I’m going home.”
      If she sees LF there – and Brienne contributes meaningful facts rather than fashion opinions – Arya’s going to ask: “What’s this slimeball doing here? I overheard him with Tywin Lannister. He conspired against Robb. He worked to wipe out the Starks. He deceived our mother. He used me as false bait in a “hostage exchange” scam. Our mother’s dead, our brother’s dead, and the Kingslayer’s alive and free – because of this snake.”

      (FanFic hypothetical…)

      Arya: “Sandor, remember where the heart is?”

      The Hound: “Aye, My Princess. But this POS doesn’t have one. May I put a sword through his eye and out the back of his skull?”

      Arya: “Good idea! Wish I’d thought of it. (And please, stop with the “my Princess” stuff. We talked about this…)”

      ——–
      Details/episode references to follow

      PS. No “leaks” responses please.
      If the show is resolving the Catelyn betrayal angle, I’ll know soon enough.

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    34. Flash Quiz for Sansa Fans:

      Q: What do the following characters have in common?

      Lysa Arryn
      Ser Dontos
      Joffrey
      Jon Arryn

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    35. Jack Bauer 24: Really weird. Eerily quiet just 12 days from the premiere.

      It’s the 4th of July. I’m guessing you’re not American? At least I’m assuming that because you don’t seem to understand that it’s a major holiday so of course HBO isn’t doing promo right now.

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    36. Lord of Coffee: It’s the 4th of July.I’m guessing you’re not American?At least I’m assuming that because you don’t seem to understand that it’s a major holiday so of course HBO isn’t doing promo right now.

      So they aren’t going to do promo all week then, which means the final promo starts on Monday which is just 6 days from the premiere? I’m sticking with what I said…a delay is coming.

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    37. Wolfish,

      Of course.
      I suppose the Jimmy Kimmel parody commercial using outtakes of The Hound from S4e1 stole their thunder.

      Still, how can Kentucky Fried Chickem make a GoT-themed commercial without The Hound?
      The whole world knows Sandor loves his chicken.

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    38. Ten Bears,

      As you wrote, Kimmel. Advertising must be timely, and KFC should have jumped on it during S4. It would be stale now, alas.

      When do you think the episode titl…

      Stop it, Wolfish. Go back to your coffee and potato pancakes.

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    39. ygritte,

      No she is not lol.Look at the cover of Time magazine.And the promo stuff it’s not only on HBO but on the Pr team of each cast member.So if you hear of a person a lot during the year giving lots of interviews and see them get papped everywhere and stuff it’s because their team wants them out there to build their profile.

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    40. Tensor the Mage (Whose Crystal Ball Is Looking Less Waterford And More Goodwill All The Time),

      That’s strange. My episode guide says:

      7.1 “To Kill a Mockingbird” LF pushed off ladder, flies through the Moon Door

      7.2 “The Long Night” Night King reanimates LF; they share passionate night together in tent in homage to Brokeback Mountain

      7.3. “Wolf Girl” WightLF torn to pieces by ravenous wolves

      7.4 “The Warrior of Light”

      7.5 “Army of the Dead”

      7.6. “Valanqar”

      7.7 “Dark Sister”

      ——–
      I liked yours. Esp “The Larch.” Nice MP reference 🤓

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    41. Ten Bears: Flash Quiz for Sansa Fans:

      Q: What do the following characters have in common?

      Lysa Arryn
      Ser Dontos
      Joffrey
      Jon Arryn

      None of them liked lemon cakes?
      LF has been responsible for their deaths.
      However, Sansa doesn’t know he manipulated Lysa into killing Jon Arryn in the show.

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    42. WotW truly represented at Con of Thrones. Well done, guys. The panelists, guests, and cosplayers were definitely the best parts of the whole event.

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    43. Ten Bears:
      The worst part of it all is that if Brienne was a little slow on the uptake, Hot Pie gave her critical intel that would’ve erased all doubt about LF’s treachery aimed at Catelyn; but Brienne rushed him to give “the quick version” of a critical chronology of Arya’s whereabouts, and obviously didn’t bother to think about what Hot Pie had imparted to her.

      What exactly did Hot Pie say that you think was so crucial?

      If you’re talking about Littlefinger visiting Tywin at Harrenhal (which Hot Pie didn’t talk about, and probably didn’t know about), that would not be new information to anybody. Littlefinger was publicly rewarded with the Lordship of Harrenhal for traveling to the Tyrells to negotiate that alliance. Everybody knows about it. He has never claimed he was on the Starks’ side the whole time.

      Ten Bears:
      I think Sansa knows. Lysa: “I lied for you! I killed for you!” Sansa heard this.

      The producers said in the BTS video that Sansa didn’t understand the implication of that.

      Which is logical enough, she doesn’t even know that Jon Arryn was murdered, let alone that her father thought the Lannisters did it or received a secret message from Lysa to that effect.

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    44. Sean C.,

      What I’m talking about is that the hostage exchange proposed by LF to Catelyn (Kingslayer for Arya + Sansa) was a scam: LF knew the Lannisters didn’t have Arya in KL; LF knew his proposal was a “deception”; Brienne told Hot Pie (4×7) “I swore to [Catelyn] I’d bring her daughterS home.”
      Brienne told HP “nobody has seen Arya Stark since her father was beheaded; she’s presumed to be dead.” Not sure when Brienne learned/was told this, but if she’d listened carefully to HP’s account – or hadn’t rushed HP for the “quick version” – it would’ve been evident that Arya was never in KL when the hostage exchange was proposed by LF to Catelyn; and Brienne’s “mission” was a sham.
      I’m assuming Cat told Brienne that it was LF who conveyed the hostage exchange proposal and assured her BOTH girls were in the capital. But if Brienne somehow didn’t know, then Arya heard enough at the end of the Tywin-LF chat to fill in the gaps. In fact, Arya heard enough that she’ll be flabbergasted if she sees LF waltzing around WF.

      I admit that maybe I missed a scene with an explanation for Brienne escorting Jaime to KL to exchange for a non-existent hostage.

      I’m excerpting some dialogue that I’ll try to post later, but if you’re curious, take a look at the following, especially 2×4 (LF-Cat) and 2×6 (Tywin-LF: esp last few seconds)

      2×1 (Tyrion-Cersei: Only 1 Stark to trade for Jaime; Arya “disappeared”)

      2×3 (Tyrion-LF: “deception” to free Jaime involves LF seeing his “beloved Cat again”)

      2×4 (LF-Catelyn: LF conveys hostage exchange: 2 Stark girls for Jaime; lies repeatedly e.g., assures Catelyn Arya is in capital, he has seen her, and she is safe and healthy, but he fears for the longevity of both girls “if they remain in the capital.”
      [Oh, and the slimebucket hits on Cat while she’s still mourning Ned.]

      2×6 (“cupbearer” Arya overhearing Tywin conference w/ battle commanders (eg Starks have Jaime);
      LF brokering Lannister-Tyrell alliance to defeat Robb and wipe out the Starks; and – last few seconds – telling Tywin he met with Catelyn at Tyrion’s directive about an “interesting proposal concerning her daughterS.”

      4×7: Hot Pie-Brienne (HP chronicles Arya’s whereabouts since S1; should be clear to Brienne that her sacred vow to Cat to “bring her daughterS home” was an impossibility from the outset: it was a set-up orchestrated by LF and effectuated by his lies to Cat about Arya)

      My point is that if there’s any haziness on Brienne’s part about LF’s involvement in the deception, or any ambiguity in what Arya overheard LF telling Tywin, ie, meeting Cat about an “interesting proposal concerning her daughters”, all the pieces would fit together in five minutes.
      And Brienne should’ve been sharp enough to figure it out a long time ago. *

      * I forgot: Did she even ask “Hey, how come Arya’s not here?” when she made in to KL with Jaime? Or was she already too overcome with his hotness by then to give it a second thought?

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    45. Ten Bears: Not sure when Brienne learned/was told this…

      Jaime says in S04E01 when they’re watching Sansa from afar and discussing his oath to Cat, “Well, Arya Stark hasn’t been seen since her father was killed. Where do you think she is? My money’s on dead”.

      So they both appear to have learnt the truth when they arrived at King’s Landing.

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    46. Come on! How can anyone thing Sansa is THE main character? She wasn’t even on the Time cover–she’s #6 character at best.

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    47. jj,

      I agree. But the showrunners and directors have been treating her in a particularly strange way for the past couple of years. She’s discussed far more than Dany. Honestly. There’s been more discussion of LF and Sansa than Dany arriving to freaking Westeros.

      This pretty much started with Season 6, and is showing no signs of going away.

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    48. Lord of Coffee: It’s the 4th of July.I’m guessing you’re not American?At least I’m assuming that because you don’t seem to understand that it’s a major holiday so of course HBO isn’t doing promo right now.

      I’m guessing you are. There is a little thing called “other countries”, and in these “other countries”, it’s a normal day. And guess what, these “other countries” even have HBO and large GoT fanbases, so they’re expecting promos.

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    49. The original Stargaryen: I’m guessing you are. There is a little thing called “other countries”, and in these “other countries”, it’s a normal day. And guess what, these “other countries” even have HBO and large GoT fanbases, so they’re expecting promos.

      Thank you! Way too quiet for being 12 days before the premiere something’s up.

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    50. Hodors Bastard: I honestly thought he would end up at “Chick-fil-a”…

      Well, we did last see him holding off their shareholders, didn’t we?

      (The fact that I am not routinely struck by lightning pretty much debunks every major religion, and quite a few minor ones.)

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    51. Markus Stark: There’s been more discussion of LF and Sansa than Dany arriving to freaking Westeros.

      That could be because Show!Sansa is much more prominent in Show!SoI&F than Book!Sansa is in Book!SoI&F. Show!Sansa clearly is one of the “big” characters on whom the whole story hinges, whereas Book!Sansa is not. As such, Show!Sansa is much more their creation, and thus something that they are more apt to discuss.

      The other big thing is that they might be subconsciosly discussing things with the books in mind. Because they basically had to create a story line for Sansa to keep her in the main story, they might feel that it merits more discussion even though at this point all of the characters are doing things that GRRM has not yet published and that thus need equal amounts of discussion. Yes, if we ever do get to read Winter, then we probably will read the same basic stuff: but B&W could be “forgetting” that whereas they know what is coming, we do not! After 5 years of knowing that a sizable minority of the viewers have been reading the books (and that a big proportion of the viewers who pay attention to things like interviews have read the books), this would be an easy trap into which to fall.

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    52. Interesting pairing of the actors during their interviews, though I doubt it means anything beyond maybe Weiss and Benioff messing with our heads once again. Not that I have anything against them doing that.

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    53. Wimsey: Is there a reason why we even care what the episodes are called? Episode 6 works fine for me!

      You’re obviously not obsessing nearly enough, if at all. Might I suggest you dump your life and get with the program?

      😉

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    54. The original Stargaryen: I’m guessing you are. There is a little thing called “other countries”, and in these “other countries”, it’s a normal day. And guess what, these “other countries” even have HBO and large GoT fanbases, so they’re expecting promos.

      Oh, drop the sarcasm. As I stated earlier, GoT is a global show but HBO is an American company so of course their promotion schedule would be impacted by a major American holiday taking place twelve days before the premier.

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    55. Sansa’s Knight:
      Not sure if any1 has thought of this yet but would the opening credits of season 7 be the first time the camera doesn’t pan to Essos …. will be different for sure

      I’m going to miss the Braavos model with the coin and the Colossus dude.

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    56. Ten Bears,

      Sean C.,

      Not a plot hole. Brienne wasn’t in the tent with Catelyn and Littlefinger. Besides, the terms came from Tyrion Lannister. Littlefinger was only acting as a messenger. Catelyn probably told Brienne the basics of her mission, which were that the Lannisters agreed to release the girls if Jaime was brought to Kings Landing. Even if Brienne did know, it still wouldn’t be a plot hole, because a plot hole is an inconsistency that contradicts the logic given in a story.

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    57. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      Thanks. That accords with what Brienne told Hot Pie in 4×7 when he confided that he didn’t know any Sansa Stark, but knows Arya, and proceeded to give a chronology beginning with Arya heading north with the NW recruits dressed as a boy.
      So my questions/criticisns remain: if Brienne learned that the Lannisters never had Arya to trade, did she even care? Surely she knew from Cat that LF assured her Arya was alive snd well before assigning Brienne to escort Jaime to KL for the hostage exchange.
      And Arya overheard LF talking about a “proposal” he’d conveyed to Cat concerning her daughters. If and when Brienne tells her what that proposal was and that it was a deliberate deception perpetrated by LF at Cat’s (and Arya’s) expense, how would she react?
      Just re-watching thosd S2 scenes because of Aidan Gillen’s silly opinion reminded me that while LF did not recognize Tywin’s cupbearer, SHE recognized him and took in everything he said while she waa in earshot. Then, going back to the previous episode with LF and Cat, it reaffirmed what a total monster he is. Lying through his teeth to get Cat’s hopes up – and betray Robb.
      Anyone who says LF “loved” Cat should watch thst scene. Utterly repulsive.

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    58. Sean C.,

      What’s a “show-only plot hole”, and how was it not a “book plot hole”?

      I haven’t read the books yet so I’m curious if GRRM “filled” this hole or never opened it to begin with.

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    59. Young Dragon,

      You’re right in that Brienne wasn’t in the tent with LF and Cat, but Brienne still knew and expected to retrieve two girls who were alive and well and accounted for in KL. Not one daughter. Two daughters.

      It was a scam and LF knew it.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Ten Bears,

      Yes, he did, but Brienne had no way of knowing that. It was the Lannisters who sent the terms to Catelyn and lied about having Arya, not Littlefinger. His complicity isn’t known to Brienne.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Young Dragon,

      LF’s complicity should’ve been plain enough to Brienne, but let’s say it wasn’t: that last portion of LF’s conversation with Tywin overheard by Arya makes his complicity clear.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Ten Bears,

      Why should it have been plain enough to Brienne? Littlefinger at Harrenhal made his complicity clear to us and to Arya. Brienne wasn’t anywhere near Harrenhal.

        Quote  Reply

    63. It just seemed to me like neither Brienne nor Sansa ever gave two sh*ts that Arya was supposed to be there to be ransomed, but she nrver was never to begin with because as Tyrian chided Cersei, Arya had disappeared “in a puff of smoke,”

      One other thing – and this is speculative – but instead of the “quick version”, Brienne could’ve spent a few minutes getting details from Hot Pie, or gone back to “re-interview” Hot Pie after the s4e10 encounter with Arya and the fight with Sandor. First question: “Do you know any other friends or acquaintances Arya made? A: “Yeah… There was this sexy Jesus guy from Braavos who gave her three wishes and a coin to use to visit him in Braavos.”

        Quote  Reply

    64. Ten Bears,

      I wouldn’t be surprised if Arya did take Littlefinger to task on his collusion with the Lannisters if she meets him again.

      Or at least mention it to Sansa should Littlefinger be wandering the halls of Winterfell instead of hanging from its gates if/when she returns there.

      I don’t think Brienne had much cause to get worked up over the lies about Arya initially. The Lannisters lied. Littlefinger lied on their behalf. There’s not much that could be done about that. As far as she understood it, even the Lannisters had not seen Arya since Ned was seized.

      They lost her. They lied about it. And she’s believed to be dead. What more could be said?

      However, it’s perfectly plausible that she might harbour some distrust and resentment towards Littlefinger for having lied on the Lannisters’ behalf.

      Back in Season 5 when she and Podrick run into Sansa and Littlefinger at the inn, she certainly reacted with a mixture of disbelief and disgust when Pod mentioned who Sansa was with ( “Littlefinger?!!!”).

      And she hasn’t exactly been very friendly towards him since then. And I doubt she will be in the forthcoming season.

      Regarding Hot Pie, this is a kid who can’t even remember Winterfell’s proper name and who still thought everybody wearing armour was a knight when he met Brienne, despite having been told otherwise by Arya herself.

      So I sincerely doubt that Hot Pie had any revelations about Littlefinger’s collusion with the Lannisters to bestow upon Brienne when they met, even if Arya had told him all about Littlefinger and his conversations with Tywin.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Ten Bears,

      Maybe she was on her way back to speak to Hot Pie looking for clues to where she might have gone when she ran into Sansa at the inn.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Young Dragon,

      LF lied about having Arya. He said to Cat three times, once in response to a direct, specific question, and twice claiming to have seen her and observed her “alive and healthy” and “wild as ever.”

      I’ll grant you that we can’t impute Cat’s knowledge to Brienne if Brienne wasn’t physically present during LF-Cat exchange. It doesn’t make sense that Cat wouldn’t fill in Brienne. Nevertheless, Brienne “swore” to ransom Arya…and then didn’t seem to care that Cat had been scammed and Arya wasn’t there. “Hasn’t been seen and presumed dead” = pretty lame excuse for abandoning your sacred vows.

        Quote  Reply

    67. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man,

      You could be right. I was just going by Brienne’s 6×2 account to Sansa of the aftermath of the 4×10 encounter; “we looked for three days but she’d disappeared,”

      Didn’t say anything about doing anything else.

      You know, maybe it’s just me, but if I had a bodyguard or P.I. assigned to protect my daughters, or ransom them if god forbid they’d been kidnapped, I would not accept “I blew it off because she hasn’t been seen and is presumed dead” as an excuse. Nor would I accept, “well I actually saw her and talked to her but I got in a fight and lost her; then I looked for three days and gave up.”

        Quote  Reply

    68. Liam Cunningham is one bad Irish bad-arse, Gemma Whelan is a supernova hottie, Pilou Asbæk looks even scarier without makeup, and I will defend to the death Sophie Turner’s right to do whatever the hell she wants to with her hair.

      End of rant.

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ten Bears,

      Except she didn’t blow it off.

      She was in King’s Landing and Sansa was right in front of her, so she focused initially on Sansa.

      Littlefinger wasn’t in King’s Landing at the time to question about his lies, so there was nothing she could do about that immediately.

      And then Sansa went missing too after Joffrey’s murder, following which Brienne went searching for them. Primarily for Sansa, since she at least knew she was alive and on the run, wanted for murder. But with Arya in mind as well, no doubt.

      And as far as we’re aware, she still hasn’t given up on searching for Arya. She’s just had her hands full with Sansa, since she ran into her soon after losing Arya.

      For all we know, she plans to go and look for Arya once Sansa is safely settled back in at Winterfell.

      She may get sidetracked once again, but to say that she’s given up on searching for Arya is not currently based in any fact other than that she’s not searching for Arya at this very moment in the story.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Ten Bears,

      The Karstarks wanted Jaime did, and if they succeeded in killing him, Catelyn was never going to see her children again. She was pressed for time, so she gave Brienne the cliff notes version: the Lannisters were willing to trade the kingslayer for her daughters. There was no need for Catelyn to bring up Littlefinger when instructing Brienne to take Jaime to Kings Landing. And once there, there was nothing Brienne could do about the Lannisters deception.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Ten Bears: What’s a “show-only plot hole”, and how was it not a “book plot hole”?

      I haven’t read the books yet so I’m curious if GRRM “filled” this hole or never opened it to begin with.

      This issue exists both in the books and in the show. I guess the idea is that people just think that Arya is dead or that she was killed at some stage in Kings Landing. That is why no one looks for her anymore. It is only much later in the books when fake Arya suddenly appears.

      This is not quite related but this has always been my general problem with Littlefinger and his so-called brilliance as a character. Because Littlefinger’s brilliance often depends on other people being oblivious to the point of sometimes becoming dumb. And this happens in the show and in the books.

      In the books Sansa is around the court all of the time, Littlefinger is standing on the platform along with the other Lannisters and their cronies, when her father dies, but she never thinks that he might have betrayed her father. She can see that Littlefinger is being rewarded and that he is part of the Lannister circle but she never thinks about it, and yet she somehow knows that someone like Jonos Slynt for example was part of the group that betrayed her father.

      Sansa hears a lot more in the books than in the show, and she never realized that Littlefinger and Lysa poisoned Jon Arryn, I think more is said during the reveal in the books than in the show, I can’t remember 100% what was being said, it has been a while. I can recall that the whole scene seemed much more obvious when they were discussing it in the books then in the show.

      But I think the worse is probably Tyrion, we are suppose to believe that he is really intelligent. In the books Catelyn tells him that it was Littlefinger who said the dagger belonged to him, she basically tells him the whole story of the dagger, and how he supposedly won the dagger from Littlefinger. Tyrion tells Catelyn directly that Littlefinger is lying to her.
      So Tyrion knows perfectly well that Littlefinger plotted against him, it is Littlefinger’s fault that he was locked up in the sky cells. But he never does anything about it, he never even tries to do anything about Littlefinger. In fact he gives Littlefinger the chance of advancing himself and his station in life, by brokering this deal between the Tyrells and the Lannisters.

      Then we get to Ramsay in season 6. In season 4 Ramsay takes Moat Cailin from the Ironborn, he has to take Moat Cailin because Roose couldn’t enter the North from the southern side. Ramsay knows exactly how important Moat Cailin is, yet Littlefinger and the Knights of the Vale camp at Moat Cailin according to Littlefinger in season 6 episode 5, and Littlefinger travels happily through Moat Cailin and the whole North without being spotted by Ramsay.

      There are more examples, but the basic premise for Littlefinger is that people tend to be oblivious around him.

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    72. Jenny,

      Oh is that how it works? I should have realized that but didn’t think about the how’s only the why’s. Lol.
      dragonbringer,

      Oh I loved the earlier Comic cons with the actors you mentioned. I found them on YouTube after bingeing the first few seasons and it was interesting to see their real life personalities and also they were more enthusiastic and funny. Even though some of the audience members questions gave me second hand embarrassment with how corny or over the top they were lol.

        Quote  Reply

    73. ygritte,

      Ygritte, you may already know this but if not “Flicks and the City” have some interviews, admittedly many with minor characters, on video. They don’t seem to have done anything GoT related for over a year, sadly, but their GoT videos might be worth a watch if you haven’t already seen them. Meryn F*****n Trant comes across as a nice bloke in real life.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Ten Bears,

      Littlefinger in the books has nothing to do with the offer to Catelyn (they never meet again after she leaves KL), and Brienne in the books has had nothing to do with Littlefinger or Sansa.

      Boudica:
      In the books Sansa is around the court all of the time, Littlefinger is standing on the platform along with the other Lannisters and their cronies, when her father dies,but she never thinks that he might have betrayed her father. She can see that Littlefinger is being rewarded and that he is part of the Lannister circle but she never thinks about it, and yet she somehow knows that someone like Jonos Slynt for example was part of the group that betrayed her father.

      Why would she think Littlefinger betrayed her father? She doesn’t know that anybody betrayed her father. She knows Littlefinger was on the Lannister side; everyone knows that.

      She doesn’t hate Slynt because of the betrayal (which, again, she doesn’t know anything about), she hates him because he and Ilyn Payne were the ones that carried out Joffrey’s command to execute Ned.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Sean C.:
      Ten Bears,

      Why would she think Littlefinger betrayed her father?She doesn’t know that anybody betrayed her father.She knows Littlefinger was on the Lannister side; everyone knows that.

      The only person who knows that LF betrayed Ned is Ned and Ned is dead.

      But Sansa has mainly looked out for number one and if it’s about her own survival and as long as LF is on her side, I don’t think she is going to let LF siding with the Lannisters against her family bother her too much. Same thing with the Hound – here’s the person who was massacring Stark men in the Hallways and she is imagining kissing him. If they are going to help her, it’s let bygones be bygones.

        Quote  Reply

    76. Boudica,

      The Vale being encamped at Moat Cailin, getting passed it, and somehow making it all the way to Winterfell without the Boltons finding out is one of the most egregious plot holes in the series, and one of the reasons why I find it baffling that Battle of the Bastards won an Emmy for writing.

      The directing Emmy was more than deserved, it wouldn’t have been serious to give it to anyone else, but the writing was really pretty poor in that episode.

      Even those who think the writing was fine have to admit that it wasn’t anything special, certainly not Emmy worthy. They just wanted to give that episode all the biggest awards as a testament to how impressive it was.

      I mean seriously, nobody at Moat Cailin feels the need to inform Ramsay that Littlefinger and tens of thousands of knights are encamped there ? Or did LF take Moat Cailin ? If so, how ? It’s supposed to be basically impregnable. How did he pass if he didn’t take it ?

      How was he able to travel hundreds of miles through the North with a massive foreign army, without any scouts, commoners, or Lords reporting this to the Boltons ?

      It’s straight up nonsense. They just wanted the surprise 11th hour arrival.

        Quote  Reply

    77. SerNoName: The only person who knows that LF betrayed Ned is Ned and Ned is dead.

      Incorrect. Varys knows. He knew that LF and Ned were planning on using the City Watch to depose Joffrey. He was in on the plan. So he knows.

      The Hound also saw LF hold a knife to Ned’s throat, though he doesn’t know that this was a betrayal because he doesn’t know that LF and Ned were ever working together.

      But Varys definitely knows, and possibly Cersei, depending on what Littlefinger told her. He may have spun some story about feigning to help Ned so he could take him down and help Joffrey.

        Quote  Reply

    78. Markus Stark,

      Moat Cailin is a bit of a conundrum all-round, since the Ironborn apparently managed to capture it without much trouble, and yet Roose Bolton apparently couldn’t take it when his forces were trapped in the south after the Red Wedding and the fortress was manned by an ever-decreasing force of dying men.

      So from one moment to the next it seems to flip-flop from being impregnable to not being so.

      But regardless, what we do know is that Littlefinger and the Boltons formed an alliance, and Littlefinger was able to travel with Sansa unimpeded through Moat Cailin, whereas Brienne was forced to go the long way round.

      It’s plausible that with the alliance between the Boltons and Littlefinger still in place, he could have gained entry to the fortress with a small force of men and double-crossed those guarding it.

      So the idea of Littlefinger and the Vale capturing Moat Cailin, even without Ramsay realising, is plausible.

      As for how the Vale knights managed to march all the way to Winterfell unnoticed, that indeed is a stretch.

      It’s possible that the Northmen, still loyal to the Starks rather than the Boltons, would not have informed Ramsay about their presence. Especially if Littlefinger got the word out that they were there to support Sansa Stark in reclaiming Winterfell.

      It’s a thin line they tread between creating plot holes and not wanting to bog the show down in endless exposition. Most of those watching the show are probably not as hung-up on all the details as we are. But an occasional extra line here and there to paper over potential cracks in the plot would be helpful.

      For example, when Littlefinger told Sansa that the Knights of the Vale were at her disposal he could have said that he’d taken Moat Cailin without the Boltons’ knowledge and remarked on how the Northmen would welcome the Boltons’ defeat, thereby at least hinting at the North’s reluctance to inform on the Vale’s presence there.

      A couple of extra lines or a simple re-wording can be the difference between a plot hole and a plausible situation. But considering that most viewers don’t get hung up on these things, such details often end up being overlooked during the writing process.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Sean C.,

      ??? What I was getting at was that LF betrayed Sansa’s mother in a far more appalling way than her father.

      But as amother commenter pointed out, it appears Book!LF wasn’t as imvolved with Brienne and the hostage exchange scam compared to Show!LF.

      He’s still a POS. I wish Sandor would whack him in the first ten minutes of S7. Time is at a premium; I really don’t want to see any more of Sansa huddling with LF, after her announcement last season that “only a fool would trust LF.”

        Quote  Reply

    80. Flayed Potatoes,

      Thanks for the link! Love her interviews.. she is so funny and smart!
      I did not know that she is engaged to be married, hope she finds happiness this time around. It’s also good to hear that her personal troubles with the ex have been sorted out.

      Dee Stark,

      Ha! So Sophie is capable of giving reasonable, sensible interviews without putting anyone else down! Nice…The Mophie love is real lol,

        Quote  Reply

    81. Dee Stark,

      Oh Lord. Another interview with Sophie describing a different Sansa on a different show than the one we’ve been watching.
      Let the s*itstorm begin!

        Quote  Reply

    82. Markus Stark: Incorrect. Varys knows. He knew that LF and Ned were planning on using the City Watch to depose Joffrey. He was in on the plan. So he knows.

      The Hound also saw LF hold a knife to Ned’s throat, though he doesn’t know that this was a betrayal because he doesn’t know that LF and Ned were ever working together.

      But Varys definitely knows, and possibly Cersei, depending on what Littlefinger told her. He may have spun some story about feigning to help Ned so he could take him down and help Joffrey.

      That may be true, but at the end of the day, does it really matter? LF and the Hound sided with the Lannisters against her father and she knows that they both played a part in his imprisonment. But she still thinks well of the Hound and continues to work with LF.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Clob,

      I agree. But killing DouchebagFinger once isn’t enough. He must be reanimated so he can be killed again five minutes later. Preferably with a gut wound like the old man Sandor put out of his misery in S4: “Bad way to go.” Except no “gift of mercy” for LF or WightLF.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Flayed Potatoes,

      Great article, but I got really excited about this:


      These include an adaptation of “H Is for Hawk,” the Helen Macdonald novel, which she is starring in and producing with Brad Pitt’s Plan B Entertainment

      Amazing book, would love to see this!

        Quote  Reply

    85. Dee Stark,

      Wow – people who throw out on Sansa really need to read this. Esp loved this:

      But one of the things it stirred in me was surprise that so much of people’s time and energy was being spent discussing a fictional scene on television when you hear about people in third world countries —and not just third world countries, all over the world! — getting raped every day, and sexually assaulted every day. This was the trending topic on Twitter, and it makes you wonder, when it happens in real life, why isn’t it a trending topic every time? This was a fictional character, and I got to walk away from it unscathed. Also, why should it be taboo to portray onscreen? If it gets that discussion going then I think it’s really important. It has to be brought into the mainstream because it is. Whether people want to hide it in the closet or not, it happens all the time, everywhere. It is mainstream. So it would almost be an injustice for us to ignore. Things like that did and continue to happen. And I feel so passionately about it that when something like that happens onscreen and there is a discussion and there is an uproar, great! Let’s take that discussion and that dialogue and use it to help people who are going through that in their everyday lives. Stop making it such a taboo, and make it a discussion.

      and this

      You have that incredible scene in “Battle of the Bastards” where you leave Ramsay Bolton to die. Do you worry — as someone with a sense of love for Sansa — that her good is being overshadowed by her canniness and desire for revenge?

      I’ve been battling with this quite a lot. I do wonder if it’d be kind of impossible for this world and all of these people who she’s surrounded herself with, of course that would rub off on her. And she’d be learning things from them and since the age of 13 she hasn’t been with her family and had those Stark morals reiterated to her on a daily basis. S he’s had to do that herself and over this period of five years she’s been away from her family, she will have one way or another been swept up in this world of betrayal and revenge. I do wonder if she’ll falter a little. She’s spent so long trying to survive and see her family again — it’s the only thing that’s kept her going and motivated, when so many times, she could have given up. So I think she may change a little, but at the end of the day, I think her heart is still good. The way she deals with her problems and her enemies may be different from how she would have dealt with them in the day when she was 13 or so

        Quote  Reply

    86. Ten Bears,

      But killing DouchebagFinger once isn’t enough. He must be reanimated so he can be killed again five minutes later. Preferably with a gut wound like the old man Sandor put out of his misery in S4: “Bad way to go.” Except no “gift of mercy” for LF or WightLF.

      Yeeeessss!

        Quote  Reply

    87. Ramsay’s 20th Good Man:
      Markus Stark,
      As for how the Vale knights managed to march all the way to Winterfell unnoticed, that indeed is a stretch.

      That’s actually quite possible. The North is larger than the other six kingdoms combined, so it’s very likely that the knights of the Vale wouldn’t have ran into any of the commoners. After all, in the first book, King Robert and his entire contingent reached Winterfell without running into anyone. When speaking to Ned, he says, “Where are all the people, Ned?”

        Quote  Reply

    88. ghost of winterfell,

      Yes I’m so happy for Lena. That seemed like an ugly custody battle, so I’m glad it’s been solved.

      Now watch as the Sophie interview gets posted over this lol.

      ash,

      Same!! It’s going to be great I’m sure. Plan B usually picks solid projects.

        Quote  Reply

    89. ash,

      1. I sense that much of the uproar over the Sansa rape scene was that it wasn’t part of GRRM’s story, and many people felt that resorting to rape of a main female character as a catalyst for her subsequent “empowerment” was a cheap, misguided Hollywood cliche. And they are right.

      2. Sophie is right: Rape and abuse happen all over the world every day. But for most people, real world horrors don’t seem “real” unless and until they hit close to home, ie, a loved one is hurt.
      In a fictional world, when horrible things happen to a random, nameless background character, it doesn’t affect the viewer as much as when it happens to a “known” character in whom we’re emotionally invested.
      That’s just human nature.

      3. Unlike many of the other events in the “parade of horribles” in the show, the whole Sansa Poole-Bolton detour couldn’t be traced to understandable miscalculations or love vs honor inner conflicts. The LF “plan” didn’t make sense, and Sansa agreeing to it didn’t make sense. (I think she even told LF in 6×5 that he freed her from monsters who killed her family and gave her to other monsters who killed her family.)

      4. Arguably, it did a disservice to Sophie T to leave it to her to justify the story line deviation and explain her character’s state of mind. And unfortunately, in a show with so many wonderful, logical moments, the few ambiguous deviations stand out like a sore thumb.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Catspaw Assassin: You’re obviously not obsessing nearly enough, if at all. Might I suggest you dump your life and get with the program?

      Geez, how many 12 step programs can one man endure? OK, I’ll start: “My name is Wimsey, and I have a problem: I’ve got a life.”

        Quote  Reply

    91. SerNoName:

      That may be true, but at the end of the day, does it really matter? LF and the Hound sided with the Lannisters against her father and she knows that they both played a part in his imprisonment. But she still thinks well of the Hound and continues to work with LF.

      The Hound was a bannerman of the Lannisters’. It really wasn’t a matter of “siding with” the Lannisters; he wasn’t a free agent. Failing to support the Lannisters would have been considered treason and a cause for execution. More important, as a member of the Kingsguard he was under direct orders from the King (whose mother happened to be a Lannister).

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ten Bears: Arguably, it did a disservice to Sophie T to leave it to her to justify the story line deviation and explain her character’s state of mind. And unfortunately, in a show with so many wonderful, logical moments, the few ambiguous deviations stand out like a sore thumb.

      We should not be at all surprised to see something very similar happen in the books. There, LF has arranged a marriage for her with a character who is written like the stereotype of the High School Stud Date Rapist.

      The show also had a huge problem: Sansa is completely omitted from the Crows/Dragons story. She gets three pointless chapters with no arc at all that really are more like “hey, remember this character!” chapters than anything else.

      My bet is that someday we’ll see that B&W basically just adapted Sansa’s Winter plotline to make it fit into the Crows/Dragons storyline. Ultimately, Show & Book almost certainly will converge on the same thing: Sansa appearing with the Vale army at Winterfell to bail out Jon’s flagging forces, and sporting many of the same emotional scars.

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    93. Young Dragon: When speaking to Ned, he says, “Where are all the people, Ned?”

      Indeed, getting an army up there at that time should have been relatively easy. The few Northerners who might have noticed would not have cared, and the Northerners who would have cared would not have been there.

      The other thing to remember is that Ramsay is no tactician. He is a great torturer and very good at breaking people and toying with people. However, he lacks any subtlety in his thinking. For example, the Boltons probably could have people at Moat Cailin. However, Ramsay is not the sort to think that way: he needs all hands on deck to get his wife and his Reek back, and he would have all of his attention (and thus all of his forces) focused on Jon’s Wildling Army. Would he be getting advice to the contrary? Sure: but he wouldn’t be hearing a word of it. (This would have been even more true of Book!Ramsay, who really is just a brutish thug without at least the psycopathic cunning of Show!Ramsay.)

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    94. Juri,

      Thank you so much for sharing this commentary; it summarizes exactly how I reacted to the brouhaha following the airing of that episode.

      I’m now curious about which “less forgiving country” you live in. I was born in Brazil and lived there until age 11. When I was a child (in the 1970s) the concept of marital rape was unheard-of, men who killed adulterous wives got off scot-free in the so-called “justice” system, and divorce was not yet legal (in 1974, my parents both had to travel back to the U.S. to get divorced). While major progress has been made on women’s-rights issues over the last 30 years, violence against women is still endemic: according to Mapa da Violência (“Map of Violence”), a Brazilian nonprofit, a woman is killed every two hours and assaulted every 15 seconds.

      /end slightly OT rant

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    95. Juri,

      Oh my God, this is amazing!
      I am also (FROM) a less forgiving country (don’t live there currently).. where domestic violence against women and marital rape are EVEN SHAMED by the woman’s own family (in SOME parts of the country/traditions/religion). Where I am from there are multiple extremities of thinking based on religious culture and traditions.

      This blog is so well said. I will paste that link now whenever this topic is brought up

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    96. Juri: For those of us who live in less forgiving countries, I found myself agreeing much more with this Pakistani blogger than with the “cheap, misguided Hollywood cliche” faux outrage.

      Thanks for that reference and perspective. About a month back on WotW, I pondered the expectation that an author/showrunner has for the reader to inversely “break the 4th wall” and assume the sensibilities of the world being portrayed in the tale. Do the authors really expect the readers to ignore modern day sensibilities and not apply them to the atrocities and social paradigms (however ignorant) seen in a period-driven tale? I think not.

      But your referenced blog, which reminds me of the events depicted in various Khaled Hosseini novels, really hits home regarding the difference in perspective many have on issues of war atrocities and sexual violence on this popular international series. Some don’t need to make as much of a leap as others in order to identify with the events depicted. Very interesting perspective that 2-D pictures on news sites alone cannot fully describe.

      “A hard image for a soft world.”

      Definitely a comment on the different worlds we live in.

      While I believe the whole Sansa S5 arc was a mass showrunner manipulation of the audience that emotionally one-upped the Ramsay/Reek/fArya events within ADwD, the wedding/bedding was not unexpected as viewed from a harder world (past and present).

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    97. Hodors Bastard: the wedding/bedding was not unexpected as viewed from a harder world (past and present).

      Do you think that Book!Sansa will

      fare appreciably better with Harry the Heir?

      At any rate, what did work very well with Show!Sansa’s arc is that she, like Jon, Daeny, Arya, Bran & Tyrion, crashes and burns in part because she reaches too high too soon: but then gets bailed out by a cultivated relationship (Theon/Davos&Mel/Drogon/Jaquen/Meera/Daenerys). I have no idea if Book!Sansa will have anything like that: I doubt that she’ll fall quite so low as I suspect that falling will not be part of Winter.

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    98. Juri,

      Interesting read. I wonder though, where is this ‘soft world’ the blogger speaks of?

      The soft, non-patriarcial society where rape is only a plot device , not a tool for subjugating segments of a population. Sounds like a dream world, developed or not.

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    99. Wimsey: Do you think that Book!Sansa will

      Your guess is as good (maybe logically better!) than mine but….

      I detested that Sansa (in TWoW Alayne I) was having similar thoughts about Harry that she originally had for Joffrey! Although I don’t mind that chapter, I was worried about more pawnish blah, blah, blah. I hope she will have an opportunity to leave the Vale in clandestine fashion (before or at her next wedding), possibly with the help of another (Mya Stone, BF…) and maybe she gets near the Quiet Isle. In any case, a tarnished LF (his ploy fractured) and others may be tracking her as they go north toward the neck….where LSH and the BwB are also headed!! Damn that would be intense!!! Sansa’s story would really kick into gear at that point, imho.

      Calm my tits and balls, you say? For some reason, I don’t see her cloaking agreement with LF going over so well. I hope her exit from the Vale causes much desperation for LF…but also will cause many forces to head north and merge chaotically. I don’t think they will go too far north in the angry winter though…or maybe that will be the great chase as Stannis goes down swinging and Jon brings the wildlings south. Should be amazing (at least in my head).

      🙂

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    100. Hodors Bastard,

      Do the authors really expect the readers to ignore modern day sensibilities and not apply them to the atrocities and social paradigms (however ignorant) seen in a period-driven tale? I think not.

      Authors are writing stories knowing that the reader will react to the characters or situations based on the persons own experiences. I suppose in order to write a convincing story, esp in historic fiction, they are going to assume that readers will consider the times and mores in which the story takes place. That does not mean readers suddenly throw there modern day sensibilities out the door , and not become upset or horrified by the actions in the story- I don’t think we can do that. But I think those mores need to be considered when we are discussing the story.

      which reminds me of the events depicted in various Khaled Hosseini novels, really hits home regarding the difference in perspective many have on issues of war atrocities and sexual violence on this popular international series. Some don’t need to make as much of a leap as others in order to identify with the events depicted. Very interesting perspective that 2-D pictures on news sites alone cannot fully describe.

      Very true. BTW Kite Runner was one of the hardest books I ever got through. At a certain point, something happens where the narrator decides to keep secret. I could not return to the book for several days, and once I did my feelings about the narrator were painted by that event. Even tho I knew such things happens more than we can imagine, and even tho I understood why he acted so(and given his age), it was very difficult for me to handle it.

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    101. ash: Authors are writing stories knowing that the reader will react to the characters or situations based on the persons own experiences. I suppose in order to write a convincing story, esp in historic fiction, they are going to assume that readers will consider the times and mores in which the story takes place.

      To an extent, authors almost have to do this for one huge reason: future readers. Modern sensibilities are ephemeral, and if an author tacitly assumes that the reader is using the sensibilities of a 1990’s middle-aged, moderately well-off, fairly well-educated agnostic white male, then readers in 2040 might be very confused! Moreover, the sensibilities of a 1990’s middle-aged, moderately well-off, fairly-well educated white male are not universal today! We can talk of “modern sensibilities”: but the second word needs a “double plural” because sensibilities include views on many things (sex, war, gods, money), and different people today hold very different views on these things.

      (In non-fantasy fiction, many authors using contemporary characters still often take pains to lay out the “right” and “wrong” of things as the main characters view them; in part this is because most modern stories revolve around characters realizing that their original views are flawed, but also in part to make sure that a reader from New York City, another reader from Paris and yet another from Texas are on the same literal and figurative page!)

      I have faulted GRRM for overdoing the “world-building” at times, but one thing that he has accomplished in doing this is showing that there are no universal values in his world. To understand Northern protagonists and Southern protagonists, we need to understand the differences in their value systems. We also have to see them work through the different values of the Wildings, Dornish, Bravosi, Dothraki, etc. One mistake that some characters make is to assume that his or her values are other people’s values; on the other hand, we see other characters take the time to comprehend the different views of right and wrong that other people’s have. Indeed, that is one of the unifying traits of the most prominent characters: they do not assume that, deep down, everybody has the same sense of “right” and “wrong” that they do.

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    102. ash: That does not mean readers suddenly throw there modern day sensibilities out the door , and not become upset or horrified by the actions in the story- I don’t think we can do that.

      I agree. I feel that we (as readers/viewers) spend an inordinate amount of time discussing our “ephemeral” sensibilities as applied to characters and events associated with this series. It’s what we do…we can’t leave our selves behind, no matter how immersive the author or showrunner is. However, I also agree with Wimsey that a tale goes askew when we apply sensibilities that can’t be easily extrapolated into the scene or haven’t been carefully coordinated by the author. It’s a fascinating balance that I admire.

      In addition to The Kite Runner, A Thousand Splendid Suns also riveted me (and tore me up).

      Wimsey: To an extent, authors almost have to do this for one huge reason: future readers. Modern sensibilities are ephemeral, and if an author tacitly assumes that the reader is using the sensibilities of a 1990’s middle-aged, moderately well-off, fairly well-educated agnostic white male, then readers in 2040 might be very confused! Moreover, the sensibilities of a 1990’s middle-aged, moderately well-off, fairly-well educated white male are not universal today!

      Same thoughts I shared with ash above. I’ve even noticed that some authors in recent decades have been revising the texts of their older works in order to stay relevant wrt ideologies and technology. (Contact and 1984 could use a bit of a boost but Ender’s Game and The Crucible will remain relevant until the end of days!)

      But what about those “future readers”?

      Mark Twain was a stunning wordsmith who wrote tales of his time but his stories are barely acceptable today, as they are heinously banned by school systems and libraries around the country. Is that a failure of the author or a failure of the locality to trust their young readers to immerse with Tom and Huck without chaotic repercussions? How does or why would one ever write for “future readers”? Who knows what the singularity-infested hives and swarms of tomorrow will deem acceptable?

      And what about the intentional anarchists?

      Take A Clockwork Orange…I believe the author deliberately wanted to paint a picture of droogie Alex and the political society surrounding him that intentionally screwed with a reader’s sensibilities, regardless of when and where. The sociopath “protagonist” was hardly acceptable (although he fascinated me as a rebelious teen) for any system with established codes and morals and yet the political system that wanted to “cure” and punish him turned out to be demented on a whole other level. The author took our sense of outrage and ethical behavior and made us question what is individuality and control. Stunning book and movie.

      Yeah, a bit OT for insomniacs like myself…but I believe good authors meld known sensibilities of their formative years with the invented value systems of their characters…to either fuck with us or expand our horizons. I think GRRM and GoT do both.

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