Liam Cunningham has been continuing to promote the sixth season Game of Thrones, recently appearing as a guest on Conan.
After revealing that George R. R. Martin once disclosed a book-related secret to him, Liam is as surprised as us to see an exclusive snippet of a scene from the upcoming season, and one involving Jon Snow, no less. Check it out:
Cian: We believe this clip is from the premiere, “The Red Woman”, which is interesting if true. Liam and Carice have both promised that there are big things for Davos and Melisandre in the premiere, so this action sequence prelude would be faithful to half of that promise. Also, short of a deus ex Melisandre, it looks as if Ghost will finally see some action. What do you think?
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Davos is not a learned man
Davos is not a literary man
Davos has never been much of a fighter
Davos has spent his time evading ships, not attacking them
But Davos has some swag allright
Where’s Mel though?
Did anyone spot Dolorous Edd among the brothers standing with Davos ?
I got chills watching that. It was so suspenseful.
My guess is that Edd has gone to bring Tormund, Wun Wun and some Wildlings to deal with the mutineers. I don’t know where Mel might be.
Loyalists against Nationalists and Wildlings will probably join them as Wun Wun smashed their gate and Thorne and co are done. Should be great episode 1.
Oh God yes!!! Hype, hype everywhere!
Why is Thorne breaking in, he could have taken Jon´s body easily after the stabbing?
Maybe they want Ghost and not the dead corpse?
No. Where’s Eddd???? *light those fookers up!*
YES! This makes total sense. Just before they get through the door, Tormund and Wun Wun arrive! Perfect.
Maybe he’s getting the Wildlings and they come with Wun Wun (that scene of him breaking the gates at Castle Black has to fit in somewhere). I hope at least.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I imagine they’ll want to kill Ghost as well as the men loyal to Jon (to get rid of the opposition and potential witnesses).
My excitement has been very slowly building over the past few months, but this made it go through the frikkin’ roof, even more so than the trailer.
Davos is a very cheerable hero and it’s interesting that Liam has been doing so much of the promotion – hope Davos plays a huge part this season and I hope he’ll be the next Lord Commander.
The Hype is real. That little clip got me more excited for the premiere than anything else. The tension was real and I can’t wait for Ghost to take a huge bite out of Olly. Ghost looks awesome and I think we got more of Ghost in this clip than we got in the whole of season 5! Go Ghost! Go Davos!
We are getting NW brother Vs NW brother. Though those outside the door look scared shitless. Understandable considering there’s a direwolf on the other side. Alliser looks like he regrets the whole thing.
Ghost will hopefully get to do something cool.
Look how scared Olly is, his days are counted…
Unless Olly kills Ghost, too….
A bit off-topic, but the suggestion that this may be just before Wun Wun breaks through the gates of Castle Black (which is perfect, I think, thank you Flayed Potatoes) has me thinking of something else. It was all but confirmed that Wun Wun will also break through the gates of Winterfell, probably in Episode 9 or 10. It seems odd that they would show basically the same scene twice. What makes more sense is that it’s a parallel, but that in the later scene, Wun Wun is a wight. I know this has been speculated before, but it makes more sense to me now – Wun Wun breaks down gates in Episode 1, we cheer; Wun Wun breaks down gates in Episode 10, we cry. A classic Game of Thrones move. It also explains why Wun Wun is breaking down the gates of Winterfell after the battle, not during it, and while Jon and Sansa and Littlefinger are already inside (the only other explanation would be that they were all, or at least Jon, held captive by Ramsay).
Wow, I think that would start a war in real life 😀
Ghost gonna get some din din!
Tear them to bits Ghost!
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Thorne looks fairly disappointed. Like he regrets having to use force after failing to talk them out. The others look solemn, and a bit apprehensive, like they don’t know what they’re going to find on the other side.The only reason I could see for them guarding a dead body is if they believe in the possibility of bringing it back to life. Otherwise is there a slim chance it could be they’re simply at this moment, out of respect for Jon and honoring a request from someone, Sansa? that his body be preserved so he can be laid to rest where he belongs? But that wouldn’t happen in the first episodes, maybe after they find out who he is,(if he is who we think he is) I can’t wait to find out how this scene came to be.
So. hyped. up. right. now.
Need. tranquilizer. urgently.
I dont see Olly so much as scared rather puzzled he seems to be. Like why is all this happening.
At least this ends the question of if something happened to Ghost too – looks pretty lively to me!
Was Liam Cunningham seen filming at all for scenes later in the season? With as many interviews as he is doing, it feels sort of like a farewell tour, before he is all of a sudden killed by the Night’s Watch in the season premiere episode. Same could be said of Melisandre after she serves her purpose in the episode.
Yeah, Thorne looks unhappy at having to break down that door. Which begs the question, why did the mutineers go off leaving Jon’s body alone in the first place, as seems to be the case from the first scene in the trailer. Besides, why are Davos and Co. risking their lives to protect a dead body. By this time he must believe that Jon can be resurrected? So Mel must have convinced him somehow.
Amazing scene though. Can’t wait to see how it unfolds!
ghost of winterfell,
My Belief is that Thorne & the mutineers will try to blame the wildings for Jon Snow’s death…..
How much love for The Onion Knight (k-nigit)?
ghost is the prince that was promised
“That little clip got me more excited for the premiere than anything else.”
“Alliser looks like he regrets the whole thing.”
I hope so. I actually want him to live for awhile just so I can see him regret the shit out of it. But as much as I can’t stand him, I hate Olly more. I think Thorne is very cynical and hardened but killed Jon more so for practical reasons whereas Olly was just being vindictive and selfish. Maybe it just boils down to the fact his felt like more of a betrayal.
He is no Shaggydog….but he is OK.
I have gifed most of the footage from the clip (not all of it, too much similar stuff imo). 🙂
This Jon Snow thing. HBO just won’t let it die. (Hehe!)
I loved that clip! Chills! Get them, Ghost!
Aren’t the Wildlings supposed to have moved on to the Gift? If that is so, I don’t think they will be able to pin this on them.
Just like Dan Weiss said, Jon is warged into Ghost in season 6!
Olly’s face: Oh shit, What have I done! Perfect title 🙂 .
A Man can’t wait any more!!!
About the clip..
first thing that came to my mind is it is night. So they have been guarding the body for a whole day.
Someone said it maybe out of respect, but it cannot be so..the people in the room are prepared for death if it comes. They also know who the killers are, so they could have just fought them before taking Jon Snow’s body inside the room.
They are not also trying to save Ghost as ghost is also fighting.
They are guarding the body for something to happen. or someone to come with something that will bring jon back.
That someone are Mel and Edd amybe with some help from Tormund and Wun Wun.
there are no other reason for them to not be in the room.(mel and edd).
Also the mutineer have come to know of this possibility and they are ready to do anything to destroy the body.
So yeaah its going to be a hell of thrilling episode 1.
I don’t know that I agree that the Wildlings are going to get involved. Why should they? They don’t owe Jon loyalty. That’s not how they roll.
I’m thinking this maybe gives the Red Woman the chance to earn her episode title w out bringing Jon back…yet.
Does anyone else see that Longclaw appears to be coated in blood!? @2.33
the wildlings know whats coming…and so did jon_snow
and they knew he knew
Olly, a kid, witnessed his whole family murdered, then has to look at his killers on a regular basis, then is told, by the LC no less, they have to be nice to each other now. How do you expect him to react to this?
If anyone should be blamed for the situation, it’s Sam, for pushing Jon into the LC position, knowing full well that put him in grave danger.
Well, we can see Wun Wun breaking down what certainly looks like the gate of Castle Black in the promo, so it would suggest they are getting involved.
Even if they didn’t care about Jon, self-interest would favour them getting involved, seeing as the mutineers are strongly anti-Wildling.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
“Why is Thorne breaking in, he could have taken Jon´s body easily after the stabbing?”
I guess the trailer showing him lay there alone pretty much negates the possibility that the mutineers had to leave because they were caught out or whatever. They left it there with the plan to blame a wildling when it got discovered I’d bet. After all, how could they burn it without drawing attention? But if that’s the case why do they want the body from Davos and co.? But if ghost had gotten loose and was guarding the body and it was loyalists who first happened upon Jon in the yard, they might have prevented Thorne and co from killing the direwolf in order to take the body.
“Maybe they want Ghost and not the dead corpse?”
Maybe ghost gave them away as Jon’s murderers and the loyalists are protecting both.
first crow that believed them in thousands of years
Okay that moment where Conan asked the Jon question and Davos was being pointed on with that red laser kinda confirms what we already know.
wait. isnt ghost mute???
Fun clip! Ghost and Davos! Yeah! Team Davost? 🙂
I agree that Mel will arrive shortly, spells in hand…
Not saying what most of us think here isn’t true, but that doesn’t confirm anything…
Not in the show.
Sophie on her way to the Red Carpet!
The Crows have first hand knowledge of what is coming beyond the wall and Jon Snow’s importance in saving them. They are involved.
I think that was a mix up and Wun Wun only breaks through the Castle Black gate.
That clip looks great. Love the successive impacts of the hammer followed by Ghost’s increasingly threatening snarls. What I have always been impressed with is the detail to characters (probably a result of great casting). Of course Thorne is going to be conflicted about having to kill fellow brothers, in his mind everything he did was for the watch, an institution for which he fought most of his life. Whenever he goes down this season, and it might be in the early going, Owen Teale needs to be commended for a great performance from Alliser telling Jon/Sam about what it takes to survive beyond the wall, to him leading the defense of Castle Black, to organising what seems to be a misguided mutiny. He definitely turned a one-note character in the books into an interesting human being on the screen.
ohhh right, i always forget because we haven’t seen him in so long!!
I like your thinking here. It makes sense that the NW would want to blame Jon’s death on the Wildlings to incite panic with the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. “Hey, check out what those Wildings did to our newly minted Lord Commander. He tried to help them, get them safe, and look what they did to him…Bastards!” But Thorne’s plan was foiled when someone saw the body being moved into an interior room and the NW Mutineers had to go handle the situation before Team Davos could report the mutiny to another authority and/or take action.
Poor Olly. Hope he’s wearing his brown pants for this.
Aren’t Maisie and Sophie on next week? Hopefully they will have an exclusive clip too!
Ghost looks gorgeous and he will rek those murdering, disloyal bastards. Olly, you’re fucking done, little shit
I think they let this clip out because people thought Ghost was laying dead when this scene was first released. I really hope this isn’t the last scene in the episode…
Hodor Doppleganger attempting to break down the door.
Ooh I remember hearing about GRRM’s secret to Liam Cunningham in whatever interview it was 2-4 years ago. As far as I can remember, he described it as:
I’m probably in a huge minority here, but I don’t get the Olly hate. He’s just a kid, and not a Ramsay or a Joffrey, either. What’s he done that Arya hasn’t, and more?
Jack Bauer 24,
Sophie, John and Emilia are on Conan next week. Maisie’s appearing on a different talk show (I can’t remember which, off the top of my head).
I thought he was absolutely great in “Watchers on the Wall”. With me, now! Now, with me! I also love Iwan Rheon’s portrayal of Ramsay. They are obviously characters that aren’t supposed to be well liked, but they play them damn well!
Olly is gonna trolley! ho ho
Now wouldn’t that be a treat!
GET UM GHOST!!! HYPE
Thorne and Co. want to burn the corpse because we all know what happens to the dead up there. Davos and co. want to protect the corpse for Mel’s resurrection show! Bring it on!
Well, me being a ‘Stark loyalist’ he chose the wrong side, tricked and plunged a dagger into beloved Jon.
So he is on my chitlist.
He must die, as anyone else that brought harm to the Starks.
Any chance that Mel glamoured another dead body to look like Jon Snow and is using it as a diversion while she’s off performing a ritual on the real Jon?
Thank you so much Abyss. I saw it all a lot clearer.
Doesn’t Ghost look so handsome? Really hope he survives. Love him.
Does anyone recognise who is with Davos? Nobody seems familiar to me.
Looking forward and also dreading the new series. I’m afraid I’m not going to be a happy bunny if things don’t turn out how I want them to.
I thought at some point earlier that something was posted about Wun Wun breaking down the gate at Winterfell?
Davos, you be the man!!!! I watched that clip and held my breath and I am so excited right now. This is the longest last month of waiting EVER.!
Sam? I don’t think he can be compared to Thorne or Olly, even if he was the catalyst to the events that unfolded he isn’t the one who ended Jon’s life. Getting off topic a little but I’ll go with it. When I first watched the scene I thought Sam’s putting forth Jon for LC was him making a good gesture towards his friend (helping Jon get a title he believes the guy deserves) So yeah, I thought he was just trying to help Jon get ahead with that speech. But then when John Bradley brought up the fact that Sam really had his own best interests at heart there, knowing that if his friend were the LC he had a chance to talk his way into getting the hell out of there with his lady love and her child, I thought hmm, he’s more mendacious than I thought. And then Sam left Jon….I’m of two minds with this but that’s another discussion. Suffice to say that I don’t like Sam for doing that, but I can’t say I don’t sort of understand why he did. You have to understand what motivates him. I think he did care a lot for Jon, but his desire to preserve the thing he’d always wanted, and finally had, meant more to him.
I stayed up to watch Liam on Conan last night because I love Davos and was shocked they showed that extended clip from the trailer!!!? Liam was great as always!! Was glad to confirm Davos does not kill Ghost, was worried about that! And I am in the thinking that mayb the mutineers were not trying to get Jon Snow’s body, but rather Ghost?! Mayb they know he has warged into Ghost or they just want him dead because he will always be a threat to them! That clip was soooo suspenseful!!!!!! Truly can not wait to see Premiere!!!!!
I had the same thought. He’s going to warn the wildling camp.
Another possibility is that he’s protecting Melisandre.
Lord Commander Seaworth
I love how Thorne and Co’s mission is to destroy Jon’s body so that it can’t do the thing that Jon stopped the Wildlings’ bodies from doing which made Thorne and Co mutiny against Jon and create the whole Jon’s Body Problem in the first place.
Ghost has never been mute in the show, he’s made a lot of noises, for example when Jon used him to intimate Rast into leaving Sam alone, and when he came running with Othor’s arm.
(Personally I’m not convinced that Ghost is mute in the books either: he’s always described as silent, which is a different thing.)
Ghost does not speak. But he remembers.
So Ghost is well and alive. against speculations….
The Red Woman? Is that how they have referred to Mel throughout the show?
Episode 6 now on the schedule. It’s 52 minutes.
Episode 1 still says “51”. It does not say “The Red Woman” and HBO’s press release is no where to be found. Not a single site has linked to it and it is no where on HBO or GoT’s official sites or social media accounts.
Olly is Innocent because he did what we want Jon to do when he resurrects right? We want Jon to go kill everyone that killed his parents or caused harm to his siblings.
I love Ygritte,
Do you think the fact that ghosts eyes are red mean Jon hasn’t warged?
ghost of winterfell,
That’s what I wondered about too but are we sure they had already settled there? We heard Jon tell Stannis they were still feeding the wildlings and running out of food. I don’t know, if they left the body there who did they have set up to blame then? Maybe it was just gonna be a case of leaving it a mystery. The absence of Edd in that room has me wondering if for some strange reason they had to do away with him too.
The mutineers left Jon’s body out in the open on purpose. This was a political assassination, and leaving his body on display underneath a ‘Traitor’ sign sends a clear message. They aren’t pinning this murder on Wildlings.
Clearly something happens with his body between when we see Jons body laying out in the snow and this clip, but I have no idea what that might be.
I hope ghost rips ollies throat out!
Getting shorter again :/
What about that press release? Sorry but I can’t remember what’s it about lol
Hopefully GRRM told him that he will survive the series!
It seems like a nice thing to share with an actor.
I enjoy your circular logic. But how do we know that the Nationalists want to burn Jon’s body? Maybe after reading a certain colorful letter (if ever received), they want to deliver Jon’s body and/or head to the Boltons as proof that they have killed the “traitor”?
Not really, if he wants revenge he should have started to kill Wildlings instead of the LC.
Thanks for sharing that 🙂
So from the clip we know Ghost is still alive. Perhaps we are not only looking at Ghost, but also at Jon (if he managed to warg into ghost before he died.) What happens to the bodies of wargs if they warg into an animal before they die? Do we know for sure that their bodies can be resurrected by the white walkers if their soul lives on in another creature? If they can be resurrected by white walkers, is it possible their souls can re-inhabit their zombified bodies? What if Jon’s resurrection isn’t done by Mel, but a combination of white walker magic and warg magic (walkers res his body, then he hops back in from Ghost). Jon would be “dead” forever, but he would continue on as an animated being (now with ice blue eyes and ruthless, judging by the way being resurrected changed Beric Dondarion mentally and the way being trapped in their animals’ bodies after death changes wargs mentally.)
Yeah episodes 1/2/6 are all pretty short. I’m hoping that Episide 9 is long and that the finale is extended.
The press release that announced the premiere title and synopsis. All of these sites quoted from it yesterday, but nobody linked to it. It’s like the press release is a ghost…or doesn’t exist lol. HBO updated the scehdule with Episode 6’s runtime today, but didn’t add the premiere title…weird…
Maybe Mel is looking for Thoros?
remember he is a child and can easily be manipulated by shits like Alliser. Maybe the mutineers convinced him that if they get rid of Jon it would be so much easier to deal with the real enemies (the wildlings)
Why is there so much focus on Longclaw being the sword Davos unsheathed? You can clearly see from this video, more so than the original trailer, that the Director is specifically showing the viewer that Longclaw is crucial in this scene.
Where is Davos’ sword, all the other NW have swords – so I’m sure he had ample time to get one?
Reminds me of Hardhome when Jon crawls outside after getting his ass kicked by the Wight Walker and he grabs Longclaw — remember how they focused on Longclaw in that shot? That’s the only other time where it had to be Longclaw and no other.
Oh, and maybe this is what happened to Coldhands(Benjen?) to make him the way he is.
I cannot tell a lie. I didn’t think much of Davos at first. Mostly because I was never really a Stannis fan. But through the seasons, I’ve grown to absolutely love this character and the enthusiastic actor who plays him.
That clip just made me even more excited if that’s even possible. Get hype.
Yeah I do hope so too. A finale running at least for 1h10 mins!
Oh that! It is odd indeed. Man I only wish they just update it with all the titles and be done with it.
that clip was HYPE! just hearing Ghost growl like that…almost feel sorry for Thorne and Co.. almost, but not quite 😉
Or the explanation is even more simple – the rumor was just that, a wrong rumor. The giant-breaking-thru-the-gate scene is from the CB episode, and there is no meeting with Jon and the rest,cause Jon is dead.
Is it possible that Davos and the others somehow know that jon has warged into ghost and they are all (including jon/ghost) protecting jons body until he can be resurrected? And maybe Melissandre went to get help from thoros as he’s the only one she know who has been able to resurrect someone? Maybe she tried and failed or is so shaken by her abilities that she knows she needs help?
Awesome clip. Never been much of a Conan fan but I enjoyed the special he did at ComicCon with the GOT cast last year.
Liam is a great actor, love his portrayal of Sir Davos. His story could go many different directions this season. Can’t wait
Get. Fucking. Hyped.
warden of the northwest,
I’m calling it, Jon Snow is dead, he will rise again as Coldhands.
Yeah I much prefer that as a plot driver, I hope you’re right. Ideally Ramsay threatens them with warfare and they’re just trying prevent that from happening – I could understand/respect the characters more if that’s how it goes down.
Just a quick thought, does Wun-Wun have Kings Blood?
This! This has always been what I speculated.
Davos and Melisandre will be seen in Episodes 4 &5.
What a great thing to wake up to in the morning! Maybe Mel is hiding? I had a thought that she is looking for Thoros and will arrive with Wun Wun and the wildlings with Thoros maybe? To bring Jon Snow back?
THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME
I JUST CAN’T! TOO EXCITING!!!!!
16 more days. Hold on a little longer.
I like that idea a lot actually, awesome way to still tie in the Pink Letter..which will be good jumping point for what happens in the North for rest of the season
not much longer now, thank the gods XD
I’m right there with you. I can’t imagine how traumatizing it would be for Olly to see what happened not only to his parents, but to his whole village–everyone he has ever known! Then he gets taken in by the NW, so he has a new family, but they betray him by befriending the people who destroyed his real family. That would totally screw up any kid! That is what makes GoT so wonderful. Olly is not just some brat. His actions are 100% understandable, which only makes it all the sadder….
Umm, plenty of times where we have seen warging that the animals eyes stay the same. i have noticed this everytime. Like when Bran wargs into Hodor, his eyes change colour and then back to normal, same with when he wargs into Summer, their eyes stay the same even when warged.
I don’t understand the hate Olly gets. He is just a kid, and all kids make mistakes and can be easily manipulated by adults. Jon would still have died even if Olly wasn’t there. Easy to condemn him so quickly when none of us were in his position.
Seriously? People guard dead bodies in the real world, too, to prevent a loved one’s corpse from being defiled and for other reasons. I understand that lots of people want to believe he’s coming back, and interpret every bit of information as supporting that, but this is getting ridiculous.
Well if we try to see the scenes in a sequence where will we place the Mels confession to Davos scene? It must be ep 1 material. Is it before the scene we got in the clip or after?
That was awesome and intense as hell! I can’t take it any more!
Dear HBO, the wait for this season has already been torturous enough. No need for you to torture us some more with such a great intense clip! Next time just show a simple dialogue scene because this is too much to take.
The Olly hate is strong because he was set up from his arrival at castle black as “Brutus” to Jon’s Ceaser..especially the last 2 or 3 episodes of season 5.. they hit us over the head with a sledge hammer that the kid was gonna betray him, which at least for me had a lot of impact on how i felt about the character
Arya never betrayed her benefactor. That’s the lowest level of hell. Though she came close to killing Tywin, who had saved her life (purely a show thing of course).
So if Jon has warged into Ghost, then that’s basically Jon growling at the people who killed him! And maybe Davos was apologizing to Jon/Ghost about his bad fighting skills! Can’t wait to see Ghost!Jon ripping out throats…
WAIT!!! What about the season 6 promo photo of Jon Snow looking as though he was hanging from something? (crucified?) The left side of his face had an injury not apparent in the assassination. You wouldn’t get a fresh wound on a corpse–so do we have multiple death/resurrections?
How does that fit in with this clip? Jon must be captured again at some point… (unless he allows himself to be delivered Trojan Horse-style to the Boltons)
I could actually see a scenario where the first resurrection creates a zombieJon killing machine and later, perhaps a burning at the hands of an enemy sets him free. (Just please don’t let the 2nd death land in the last episode of the season again.)
I think this confirms a theory I saw on YouTube. BecauseGeek has an awesome breakdown of the trailer. She pointed out that the door being knocked down is shown again the trailer. Still has the hole but otherwise in tact….. I believe it was scene with Brienne. Check it out!
That is going to be freaking epic.
That first guy is going to bust through the door and all we’ll see if a flash of white as Ghost just tears him in half!
It’s different from Arya taking revenge against evil people who’ve mistreated her, or her friends and family. Olly murdered in cold blood his Lord commander. A guy that took him under his wing and treated him kindly. A guy that tried to reason with him. It’s not like he was inviting them over to make merry and have tea.
The North Remembers,
Hypothesis, not theory.
Theory means what is known.
Yea, I saw this video too and I think she’s on point.
Does anyone else think that this takes place in the first episode?
Olly technically got his revenge. He killed Ygritte (who killed his father) and Jon killed the Magnar of the Thenns. Several Wildlings who attacked the village were also killed in the battle and others were taken prisoners. The only named character Olly might have beef with is Tormund, but that doesn’t mean he needs to kill the LC to resolve it. Jon never treated him differently after Ygritte died (in fact, Jon rewarded him by training him to fight, and even appointed him steward to groom him for command).
As for Arya: she could have easily killed The Hound because he was on her list, but when she finally got the chance to have her revenge she didn’t. She also had many opportunities to kill Tywin (who technically saved her), but didn’t.
Pretty sure they filmed wun wun breaking down every gate in westeros to keep us on our toes!!
Last year we got a Arya scene(where she first gets to the HoB&W).
That was in EP2. My guess is that’s from either episode 1 or 2.
Well as I “also” stated, one possibility is out of respect for Jon’s corpse because he deserves being laid to rest in a dignified manner (such as in his family’s crypt) and not burned to a crisp by the very men who murdered him.
I do! It makes no sense to show a Davos scene from later in the season and risk spoilers 🙂
I assumed as much. Its So much fun being unsullied.
Some months back ….I think I predicted it …….I don’t really remember …but I think this is how it plays out. …
speculation ahead (the following scene I describe has about less than1 % chance of actually happening but anyway. ..)
After they stab Jon , the bad bros of the night’s watch will go away from the scene ..
someone finds out …and chaos follows …There will be big scene about who did it bad bros blame the wildlings and there is a big argument but…..Mel steps in ……see examines the body ..finds something unusual. ….like something ………she wants the body …and says she will uncover the truth ..Davos is reluctant but …she argues with him …pro Jon boys support Mel. …and Davos says fine …what the hell……
The boys transfer Jon’s body to some room……..
The bad bros get tensed ..They will fear what Mel is upto ..and plan to get jon’s body back …..obviously someone finds out ……Mel meanwhile somehow convinces Davos to support her one last time and she starts preparing for the ressurection ceremony. ….
Davos enters but the pro Jon boys inform about the plans of bad bros. …They lock the door ….and that scene plays out. ….
pro Jon team with Davos is about to lose …..when wildlings come in for the rescue. …They will spare olly ….Davos won’t let them kill the boy …and nd probably throne gets a big speech about the wall and duty ……when he gets murdered ….end of episode……
1. Olly is a kid
2. Olly’s family and community were slaughtered (and eaten!!!) by some of the people Jon hung with regularly
3. The mutineers could easily have played Olly in his traumatized state, winning him over to their short-sighted loyalty to traditional hatred of Wildlings
4. Jon is compassionate and will forgive Olly
4a. …at least, the Jon we KNEW was compassionate…
Maisie is on with Seth Meyers on Wednesday (13th)
Does anyone else think that COULD be, (not likely) Thoros of Myr placing his hands over Jon’s eyes and praying?
I know I am being the odd person out here, but where is all the proof of Jon ever warging into anything? It seems that is now the majority groupthink that I am reading. Just because Bran does and in the books it is told that Starks can warg, in the show we have never seen Jon do this or even think of doing it.
If he did manage to warg into Ghost, what then? It is known that you can’t be in an animal but a very short time before you lose the human quality of the person who warged. Also after Jon wargs into Ghost, his body is then just a dead body, starting to decay like all dead bodies do. Bran couldn’t warg into a dead body. There is nothing there for Mel to rezzie, even if that is what will happen. So what then?
I still think there is something that we just don’t know yet, we can speculate until the show starts, but we can’t have certainty, until we actually see the show. I just wonder why so many are now gravitating “as if it is fact” to Jon is going to warg Ghost?
Not snark. Honest question. I don’t have the answer, but I sorta feel that all this certainty isn’t going the right way either.
Thoros is in the Riverlands as far as we know. Even if she knew where to find him it would take her half the season to bring him to Castle Black (not to mention that she would have to cross Bolton territory twice while winter is in full swing). I don’t think Davos will defend Jon’s dead body for 6 episodes 😀 So… no, there will be no Mel+Edd road trip this season, she will find a way to do it herself.
While the Davos scene is happening, Edd could be on his way to inform Tormund what has happened to Jon. Maybe he took Mel with him. She is probably more safe with the Wildlings than with what is left of the Watch. There was also some speculation that the mutineers could take advantange of Mel (the scene from the trailer were she undresses, but looks very sad like someone forces her to do it).
I am so hoping for another GoT flavored skit.
I love the clip! I love Liam’s interview! 🙂
Alliser Thorne and Olly are odious characters, but Othell Yarwyck (omg, I can’t… Season 1 with Jon and Sam..) is the worst, traitor! (Sorry Mr.Fortune!)
Great scene, Can’t wait!!!
(Ghost>> about Olly, Thorne, etc,etc>> YUMMY! (I hope!!) 😉
Wtf? How come it doesnt say my name? I said that comment lol. When you quoted my comment it said selena instead of Connor lol. weird
Apr. 7th (tonight): Liam Cunningham on Conan O’Brien
Apr. 11th: Sophie Turner on Conan
Apr. 12th: John Bradley on Conan
Apr. 13th: Maisie Williams on Late Night with Seth Meyers
Apr. 14th: Emilia Clarke on Conan
The word “theory” has a couple of meanings. It’s perfectly useable in the way The North Remembers did…
Arya, as far as I remember, hasn’t killed anyone who was kind and fatherly to her. It is not the what he did, everyone kills in GOT, it is the who he did it to and the how. He betrayed a man who tried his best to be kind to him, a man who was giving him an opportunity to make something of himself. You can’t really compare that to any of Arya’s killings. Or it might just be that I personally value loyalty a bit more.
I don’t know who can police the NW anymore…but if Alliser cares somewhat about perception maybe he does want to burn Jon’s body to hide how he died (and prevent him coming back to life.)
If they take care of those loyal to Jon they can stick with a story of saying wildlings did it.
Because Alliser isn’t a complete idiot I think he realizes now that his plan really wasn’t very good. He didn’t want to kill more NW.
I hope Alliser lives long enough to see how he really fooked up in terms of the wall coming down and white walkers…and how Jon really did have the right idea.
Also, Olly is a kid who has gone through some rough shit…joined the night’s watch not because of being a criminal…but because his family got slaughtered by wildlings.
He should survive and have some sort of redeeming arc for betraying Jon.
Almost time to find out.
Good point and how great would that be if Wun Wun had a twin…haha
to everyone who mentioned this might be the last scene of the episode..with a title of the red woman, it would be very silly if the scene ended with an event without Melisandre.
If they just want Jon’s body to burn why bother breaking in to fight? Once they punched a hole in the door why not just dump oil through the hole and then light it on fire? There is a guy standing in the back with a fire lit torch already. It’ll burn Jon and everyone else’s body in that room, something they’d have to do anyway if they were about to kill some of the people in that room. Not to mention they’d deal with Ghost before he ripped them to shreds.
So I’m wondering if it’s more than just wanting his body to burn…because if not, isn’t that what you would do if you were in that spot? Just set the room on fire. So I’ll be anxious to see how this plays out, or if this is just Hollywood so to speak.
to blame wildlings with a cross and Traitor written on it ?
Wun Wun has aboriginal blood, as do the Children of the Forest. Fighting the WWs will bring about a rebalance between the aboriginals and successors to the First Men.
Yep, I reckon that’s what happened also. Weiss wasn’t joking when he said to Harington: ‘Season 6’ !
At least that clip has put to rest all the speculation about Ghost being dead or alive after the first trailer was released a few weeks ago. He’ll probably be having Thorne, Ollie, et al for dinner seeing that 😀
It’s based entirely on book stuff, which I won’t write out because I haven’t successfully used spoiler tags. Suffice to say, in the books, much more warging.
Holy crap. Like others have said, that gave me more hype than the trailer! I love how Thorne gives that grudging look about the whole situation. The guy 100% believes that what he is doing is right, but he doesn’t like any of it.
GREAT to see Ghost alive and well! I want to see him in the last season of GoT!
Jon’s promo picture, with dripping blood down his face, looked more stylized and different from the last shot of him in Season 5. I think it was just a promo picture to get people talking. I doubt that it was a shot from the actual season.
It’s because of the relationship they had 🙂 And is he so young a kid anymore? Is a teenager held accountable for their crimes? Unless it can be proven that the teen was either under extreme duress, or unable to see right from wrong (mental retardation or whatever) being “manipulated” into a crime is not a defense. We aren’t privy to the conversations that took place between the mutineers and he could very well have been manipulated, but they don’t go out of their way to make it appear that way. When we see the looks Olly gives Jon, and the way he turns thoughtful when Sam tells him a man sometimes has to do things that are hard, but he thinks are right, made it seem kind of obvious in hindsight that Olly eventually did what “he” thought was right.
Come on, if you saw your mom & dad murdered and were told they would be eaten by their murderers, do you really think you’d ever get your revenge? Do you really think Arya is going to stop killing when she’s done with her list? She’s going to take out every person she thinks is doing bad things, no matter if those bad things are done to her or a stranger. Think about the night’s watch guy from the book she killed because he broke his vow to the wall.. no skin off her nose but she killed him anyway because she thought he deserved it. How is Olly any different? By the way, I hate him as a character, I just don’t question his motivation.
Every hair on my body was standing up straight watching this new scene! Please excuse me while I try to shake off all of these goosebumps…
warden of the northwest,
“I hate him as a character, I just don’t question his motivation.”
Exactly. Fairly simple plot device that he is, set in a complicated narrative.
YouTuber RedTeamReview has a theory that
Ramsey is requesting the body as proof of death stemming from the Pink Letter [/ spoiler ]
Actually seems like a valid possibility
Liam was last night. Wonder why Conan couldn’t snag Maisie?
I have read the books. And I know how to use the spoiler tag. Jon doesn’t warg in the books. Not that I remember anyway. I recall he has a dream, that is all I recall.
Davos is Howland Reed.
That may be his rationale on the show, in the books it is not. Later when Jon announces Gilly is leaving with “her” baby and then Jon tells Sam that Maester Aemon and he are also leaving he is genuinely surprised. I’m not surprised that show Sam has different motivations. He has become much more of a instigator on the show. I recall he wanted to send Gilly to his family but I don’t believe he had any interest himself in going to see his father. Also, he did not want to become a maester as his father would strongly disapprove (and Sam might end up having that accident he was originally threatened with).
Maid of Tits and Dragons,
I think it is not his blood, but a splash of someone else’s blood 🙂
Bunny Without Banners,
Your avatar is fantastic ser/lady.
That’s right, forgot about that…. Didn’t think too much about it because of the shock of what happened right after. Is it still visible in the opening shot of trailer? I’ll have to look again tomorrow. I remember thinking just how hateful they were mocking him like that on top of everything, but duh yeah, maybe it was to leave it up and send a message.
Hoo-ray! I’ve been reading through to see who else spotted Ghost audibly growling. For a while I thought my ears were playing tricks, and now it seems not so.
Does this give us a clue concerning Jon? I have no idea. There are those words from Aemon that I’d like to see spin out. (Kill the boy….)
The big problem was there for all to see. Jon’s blood-loss looked like one huge torrent. Of course, Jon was on a bed of icy snow, thus lowering body temperature, possibly leading to the wounds congealing more rapidly. So, if someone acts quick….. Is that the premise for Jon to be saved? I would be doubtful. It doesn’t sound like good plot to use.
Returning to Mel with Thoros, and what she said. ‘You should not have this power.’ Does that mean she must have equal powers, possibly greater?
There must be the probability that wildlings tell (clarify to) Mel that wargs live on inside a host. Surely, amongst the wildlings, someone will know how to return a warg from a host, without any blood sacrifice? (Davos would be super wary of that!) Once Thorne hears, won’t he do all he can to stop this going ahead?
There is a scene from ‘A Dance Of Dragons’ that could be played out now, with changes. It’d be a reversal of events leading up to Jon’s fatal stabbing. When Wun Wun bursts through the gates, that seems to imply it will happen (after a fashion).
warden of the northwest,
I was talking strictly about the TV show. Arya didn’t kill any NW member on the show. Olly isn’t even in the books.
Also, Arya didn’t kill her benefactor. Olly, on the other hand, did.
The people on Arya’s list are people who harmed her and the ones closest to her. So far she’s only killed one from her list (on the show). If Olly wanted to kill the people who attacked his family, he would go for Ygritte, Tormund, and the other Wildlings (and I wouldn’t mind that). Instead he went after his benefactor. His motivation makes me dislike him as a character.
There are echoes to Caesar’s murder, moreso in the books than in the show. On the show we have a cross and more religious under- and overtones. The conspirators created a reason for Jon to go outside (for Caeser to attend the meeting of the Senate). All the conspirators stab him. One of the last stabs is ultimately the most psychologically damaging (Olly for Jon, Brutus for Caesar), and so on. The conspirators fled the scene and returned to their homes or started addressing the crowds in the forum. Caesar’s body was left and three slaves carried him home.
If Thorne has informed the Boltons that he killed Snow, then why does Ramsey send “the letter”?
We know that some form of PL will be in the show we hear a part of it in the Stark teasers “Winterfell is mine, come and see”…
I am not sure what is so hard about doing a spoiler here, but some really have issues and can’t read the instructions at the top of every comment section. Here is how it breaks down.
Step 1. Make a bracket like this [
Step 2. With NO space in between the bracket you just typed, now type the word ……… spoiler. So it looks like [ spoiler no, spaces.
Step 3. last use the opposite bracket like this ], with no spaces between the first bracket, the word spoiler and this last bracket.
Step 4. Then you type in whatever spoiler you want.
Step 5. To end spoiler tag, make the same bracket [
Step 6. Then make a slash, like this /
Step 7. Then type the word spoiler, with no spacing, so it looks like this [ /spoiler – with NO spacing
Step 8. Then finish with the opposite bracket, with no spaces. ]
It can’t be demonstrated as the computer thinks one is trying to use the spoiler tag, so people add the spaces to demo it, but then those using it as an example, add the spacing and there is NO SPACING when using the spoiler tag.
Here is how it looks WITH SPACING to demo. [ spoiler ] type your spoiler [ / spoiler ] Now do that and omit all the spacing that I added and you are good to go.
I hope this help.
Um, I don’t know where you are from, but where I’m from, we don’t punish kids same as adults. For a very good reason – the prefrontal cortex, which governs prosocial behaviours, really develops only around age 20 (that’s why teens are often such assholes). Even taking into account that people in Westeros reach adulthood more quickly, by all means, Olly can’t be held as responsible as Thorne and the rest of the adult men.
Well, once you set that one room on fire you may have no way of containing it and that will end up spreading to all other buildings nearby. There are no fire engines over there. HAHA..
warden of the northwest,
On the show Jon kills Orell, the warg with the eagle. In the books the eagle is taken over by another warg Varamyr. A part of Orell is still in the eagle and it initially fights Varamyr warging into it.
The prologue to ADWD, this is what is said:
They say you forget, Haggon (his mentor warg) tad told him … When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades and teh beast becomes a little less warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast is left.” Varmyr then dies and his spirit lives in his wolf … who then later runs into Summer … but that is another story
I believe Mag the Mighty (the giant killed inside the tunnel) was the last king of the giants
Olly should do the honourable thing and commit harakiri.
That is exactly how the Wildings roll. Wildlings follow the man who beat the previous leader. Not only was that Jon but Jon also gave them safe passage, and land in the Gift. THEY ARE EXTEMELY LOYAL TO JON NOW.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Thorne doesn’t really care about the body, that’s exactly why he leaves it outside.
Ramsey sends the letter, threatening the watch.
Thorne wants to get Jon’s body as proof for Ramsey that he is dead.
Its preaty simple and straight-foward.
My only question is what spell? Melisandre doesn’t do magical things other than having a shadow baby. But that took Stannis to make. Nothing else has happened to give her the power and there is no other scene that actually show Mel actually performing some twisted magic. Also, it is not a spell that saves Beric, It is Thoros simply praying for him, no spell, no magic light or fire. Just simply praying for him. I don’t understand why everyone think Mel is able to come and take over with Spells. That is not how Mel works and that is not how GoT works.
Don’t want to sound mean, but what is done nowadays and in the real world has no impact on this story.
He betrayed his mentor, he needs to be punished.
Jon saved their lives and defied Stannis (a Southern KING) by interrupting the execution and showing mercy against Mance. He’s got them by his side. And if he comes back from the dead, that will probably be a very impactful moment for the Wildlings as well (like the Dothraki witnessing Dany’s rebirth in the fire), because something like that just doesn’t usually happen (unless you’re a wight, and it’s doubtful the NK will get his hands on Jon anytime soon).
Olly hate comes from the simple trope that he “killed” the main good guy. I think people understand that he has had a crappy life, but Jon took him in and made him his steward. Training him at arms and basically grooming him to be lord commander decades down the road. You don’t go stabbing your boss because he made a decision you don’t like. Olly doesn’t think the White Walker cause is as important as the Wilding. Look you don’t just stab the good guy and come out smelling like roses.
Arya is a kid who has killed, but she’s never killed any of her mentors yet.
Yaga, GRRM touches on the theme of blood law or revenge. One example is the Brakens and Blackwoods “so long as men remember the wrongs done to their forebears, no peace will ever last – so we go on century after century … my father says there will never be an end of it …
Jamie says – there could be … my father had a saying too. Never wound a foe when you can kill him. Dead men don’t claim veneange … kill their sons as well.
He also has Elleria Sand (the book version not the revenue hungry show reversion) say the same about the Sand Snakes/Martells revenge against the Lannisters.
Part of the beauty of GRRM is that he almost trolls us to want revenge and war (e.g., King in the North) and we see how well that works out … Baratheons and Lannisters kill the Targaryens, the Lannisters kill the Starks and Baratheons, the Starks may kiil the Lannisters, the Targaryens may kill the Lannisters, the Tyells the Lannisters, the Martells the Lannisters, and so on and so on, until no one is left when the real enemy arrives …
Even if Davos had a sword I would grab the badass valyrian steel over my standard castle forged sword any day of week.
I agree. I think there is no set up for show Jon to warg into Ghost. I think this theory comes from the books and the fact that the prologue of ADWD is about Varamyr a warg and discusses warging into animals upon death and what happens to the human spirit. The question is why GRRM put this in the prologue when Jon’s last chapter that ends in Jon’s death has his last word as “Ghost” and states that he never felt the fourth night only the cold. Jon has never taken possession of Ghost’s body the way Bran does Summer. However, he has been in Ghost’s mind, mostly while sleeping, but when Ghost returns to the wall, Jon does while is he awake, that’s how he knows Ghost is back.
Mel finds out somehow that Jon is a true Targaryen and a valid contender for the throne. She somehow manages to convince Davos of that fact and tells him the way forward is to protect Jon’s body until she does her ritual thing to raise him. Of course Davos guards Jon knowing that he is royal and may well be the rightful king of Westeros. I don’t know
warden of the northwest,
Read the prologue to ADWD. That discusses it.
Regarding the ‘Jon warging into Ghost’ question, I’m in the camp that he did? Not only because of Weiss’s remark to Harington at that Oxford Union meeting, but Jon’s last dying word in aDwD was: “Ghost”.
I reckon D&D omitted that from the final scene to make it more dramatic and leave the question open ended? However, it looks from that clip Ghost has a big part to play?
TBH, I’ll be glad when this 10 month discussion of Jon Snow’s fate has been ‘Finally being put to rest’ (excuse the pun). It just fook’in drags on and on and is really getting on my tits (and dragons) 😀
But he did warg, that is why Qhorin took him ranging. He spied on the wildling camp while he was warging Ghost. You can say he didn’t warg intentionally but his “wolf” dreams are basically him warging. He felt pain when Ghost was attacked by the eagle and he also felt blood in his mouth as Ghost was feeding He was able to communicate with Bran while in Ghost and Bran told him to open his eye. Jon has definitely warged more than once in the book, that is the only reason why we were able to get a POV from Ghost in some of the Jon chapters.
OMG, this is such a great time before the season starts again. I knew it, some fans weren’t sure if Davos was fighting the men in the room, or if Ghost was dead,etc….
They are protecting his body, & The men loyal to Jon ( probably the ones that was at Hardhome) is with Davos & Jon in that room. You know that Ollie is going to get it. They showed his face a few times. This is sooooooo, great.
I did not see him, but you know that outside of Sam, he is Jon’s right hand man. I can’t wait for the season to start, then again, I don’t want it to start. Because, before you know it, it will be over. 10 Shows is not enough for me anymore. We are starting to get to the end of the story, and that is where all the meat is.
Yes! I told y’all Ghost was standing in the trailer, but everyone wanted to insist he was curled up next to Jon. Anyway, Olly is about to become Ghost droppings!
Well, I take back my bitching about Ghost looking fake in the last frame of the first season trailer.
He looks absolutely amazing in this finished clip and his glowing red eyes gave me chills!
So she wants to kill Thoros and Beric as they betrayed Gendry … and as far as we know he’s still alive … at least at one time they were on her list …
Yeah, I don’t really care about continuing this discussion, either, because it’s pretty obvious that the reason people hate Olly is mostly ‘killed the good guy’. Maybe, for some people, sprinkled with ‘is a DnD plot device, not a book character’ (although, to be fair, that’s mostly on other sites, not here).
For me, the beauty of GOT is partly in the grey. From Olly’s point of view, he did nothing wrong – he punished a traitor. And in that, he’s no different from book Arya killing Dareon – maybe even more justified, since Dareon did nothing to Arya personally. Still, I’m pretty much amazed by the number of people wishing Olly death unironically from our world, given that, in our understanding of the situation and the developmental psychology involved, he was, at best, an immature person brainwashed into doing what he did, not a fully responsible adult.
Still. As I said, not really interested in continuing this discussion. As you were.
My guess is that Shireen’s sacrificial death is actually going to count for something. Essentially, because a precedent has been set with Beric’s resurrection, all Melisandre will have to do is pray over Jon’s body.
I’m actually wondering where Mel is while all this is happening. With Edd trying to get help?
I have always had this idea that Ser Allister was sent to the wall by Tywin for being a Targaryen loyalist, and if he knew who Jon really was, would be his most fervent supporter.
Is it really necessary to be so rude and condescending. If you want to help people, then help them. But please leave the bullsh*t out of it.
Liam is a great actor, but I think everyone would agree freaking Ghost totally owns this scene.
So amazing how a little fantasy element like an oversized wolf can make me get so excited lol.
well, I say congrats to the friend around here (sorry can’t remember who it was) who insisted that the brothers in the room are with Davos, and not against him. Spot on mate, my deepest apologies for having doubted you.
Shireen’s sacrifice already did something. It melted the snow.
Read Mel’s POV chapter in Dance.
Is it really necessary to be so rude and condescending. If you want to help people, then help them. But please leave the bullsh*t out of it.
I wonder if Ghost will actually kill Olly.
I have little doubt that if Allister knew Jon was You Know Who’s son, he would bend the knee and be Jon’s ultimate supporter…
If this season starts exactly where last season ended, there’s still time for Jon to whisper “Ghost” before his eyes turn white and he takes his last breath. I’m not giving up hope yet!
I don’t know if that will happen but I certainly wouldn’t hate it. They could start back on his face and have that happen, then have the “good guys” find him like that and know from someone’s experience that he warged. It wouldn’t take a genius to know it would be into Ghost. So they know he’s ‘alive’ and they begin protecting Jon’s body and Ghost until they figure out what they can do.
All true but the show has not set up any of this and it would come across as deus ex machina.
I suspect the show will be consistent with what they have been foreshadowing.
Yes, I noticed that in the re-watching and Orell really wargs into the eagle moments before dying, so it got me thinking if it would play out later.
Concerning the Olly hate, he really reminds me of earlier Arya, she wanted revenge for the massacre of her family just as Olly did, and she wouldn’t hesitate to transfer that rage to the people she thought that may have betrayed her, like Beric, Thoros and even The Red Woman. And she also wouldn’t exclude from the list the names of the people that gave protection to her, like The Hound and Tywin. Although she didn’t kill those, she had a deep will inside to do so, and for Olly the situation became way more urgent and propicious to act over, and a betrayal, in those cases, ends up hurting the same as the murder itself. I’m not defending him, he really lacked the control or even moral distinction that Arya had, but if I had to choose what to do with his character I’d prefer an epic redemption after meeting again with Jon Stargaryen.
PS: Sorry for the bad english you all!
But Jon didn’t betray Olly. Bringing people to the Wall in an attempt to fulfill a duty to shield and guard the realms of men isn’t a betrayal imo, or at the very least it wasn’t done in the spirit one. Olly was old enough to understand this. There were plenty of “innocent” men and women in the wildling party just as there were guilty. Jon was what you might as well call “king” at the night’s watch. You don’t just stab a beloved king to death because you don’t like his decision and not have people despise you, especially if you are hand of the king. And Arya didn’t have a relationship with Thoros or Beric. Anyways, I don’t think she’s exactly an angel these days 🙂
There has been plenty of warging on the show however to include Bran so it wouldn’t be ridiculous to have Jon warg (as he’s suppose to be able to do).
That was emphasized for a reason. In the books Thoros performs the last kiss in that he breathes fire into his mouth and expels it into the dead person’s mouth as fire cleanses. So it is fire magic (as opposed to blood magic). Which may be why a sacrifice is not required. Then there is ice magic (the Others) and maybe even water magic (Patchface), although that is an entirely different book only subject
Hard to sleep I’m too wound up lately. Not just the trailer hype. Something in the air. people at work going though same issue…hm.
Given all the promo surrounding Jon Snow’s “death” and the extensive available art from an actual episode, it doesn’t make sense to me they would put Kit in different random make up, with an injury he neither has in S5 nor gets in S6 just for a stylized promo poster.
That’s why I think the shot will show up somewhere. Jon may or may not actually be tied up, although mounting him in some fashion under the traitor sign would have a huge emotional impact for the symbolism. It could be he is being propped upright between two other people with his arms over their shoulders. I believe Jon is going to be alive at some point in S6, but I’m not expecting him to be all super power savior of the north–yet.
It’s not bad at all! 🙂
Hmmm. I don’t really think it’s that straight-forward.
Why would Alliser bother with a body at all? Why would he assume someone would want to see the actual dead body as proof? Normally they would just burn it right away and send a letter. Ramsay not knowing that Jon’s dead wouldn’t demand it in the PL anyway. So unless they’ll be having a lenghty correspondence (which would be tricky timeline-wise), I don’t really see it.
Also, and more importantly, wasn’t it speculated that the PL is written only after Roose’s demise? “Winterfell is mine.” And such… (except of course Ramsay murders daddy in the very first episode 🙂 )
Great to hear the new title
So far Mel has been seen as a “one-note” sociopath clinging to Stannis’s arm so to speak who is always so self-assured, so it will be great to see how this character handles a setback, or has to revisit thing and have a confusing experience requiring introspection
Dare I say a “human” experience of adversity and one which brings growth
It will be nice to see some dynamism and Carice’s skills coming to the fore
Yeah, perhaps “spell” is a bit strong. Mel probably won’t do anything “Potter-esque” and waive a wand or her hands before enabling R’hllor’s will….but she does channel sorcery via thoughts and “smokes” and “powders”. In the show her direct magical “attack” antics (like the sudden burning of Orell’s eagle, etc) have been muted but she does have a stockpile of potions (as she demonstrated in the bath scene with Selyse in S4).
It’s so strange that a 50 second clip could make me both giddy & nervous, but that is what it has come to after 10 long months of waiting for answers. My heart was pounding watching the scene; I can’t imagine in what condition I’ll be in when I watch the entire episode in 16 days. I may just drop dead from happiness. I hope we get other new clips when Sophie, John, and Emilia appear on Conan.
I see 7 mutineers outside the room and 5 loyalists inside. Pretty good odds for Davos & Co considering they’ve got a giant, angry direwolf by their side. But I don’t think there will actually be a fight. Those are some cramped quarters and I would think the logistics of choreographing a fight in a small room with a wolf CGI’d into the mix would be a headache.
I think they’ll be interrupted by a giant breaking down the gate. I was curious where Edd was during the showdown and I agree with others that he goes to get the wildlings and that’s why we saw Wun Wun bursting through the gate. Because, otherwise, why would the wildlings return to CB and find it necessary to bust in?
It’s amazing that we see more of Ghost in this clip than we did in the entirety of S5. And he is huge. Good luck to whoever thinks of taking on the snarling and pissed off wolf. I hope we get to see a lot more him this season. As well as Summer and possibly Shaggydog.
Wow, it feels like just yesterday when that countdown meter seemed to never leave the 40s.
That’s an awesome observation. Edd warns the Freefolk, and Wun Wun comes to tear Ser Alliser in half.
Yes, but Olly, in his immature mind, saw that as a betrayal, not personally exactly, but to a cause. He saw first hand the worst of the Wildlings, and in this Thrones universe there’s not so much space for telling wheats from tares. You are what you’re wearing. The Wildlings were evil, Jon was supporting them, Jon was evil. Thorne seemed like the reasonable person there and the one that could favour Olly’s revenge (he could’ve even thought it was justice). It’s a shit thought for me, but when you think it happens a lot, kind of makes sense for a show that intends to portray reality accurately. After all, isn’t most of the stabs in the series because somebody disagreed with someone else’s decision?
ahh that’s nice to hear!! thank you!
There already was a Targaryen at the Wall, and Ser Alliser would have been aware of Aemon’s family name. I don’t remember any indication he was loyal or differential to Aemon. (Although my memories and therefore feelings for Thorne are based on the book character more than the show.)
If that is really a shot from the season, I believe it will be from the last episode of the season, when Jon dies again. I may be wrong, but I seem to have heard some speculation/rumor/spoiler that Jon may re-die (!) at the end of the season.
Yeah, me too! Getting a bit greedy here!
Also, I agree with you about the scenario right after this scene. Wildings coming to the aid of those inside the room, after Edd and MEL (I believe) go to get them.
Ah yes… Damn.
The timeline doesn’t fit, if Ramsey does say that after Roose is death. If Roose dies I expect it to be in EP3-5.
Then perhaps it has something to do about Mel…? I really don’t know anymore.
Anyway, we will know for sure in 16 days.
Thank you, ma’am! 🙂 (And it’s Lady…)
Bunny Without Banners,
It may be much simpler: Davos and Jon’s friends demand to take him back to Winterfell for burial but Thorne wants Jon burned so he doesn’t become a wight. Hence the fight…
The CGI on Ghost looks really good too, he looks real.
My dawg Ghost, yes! Fav actor on the show, handsdown
That’s what I was thinking about the last episode, as well…which would be an unfortunate choice, unless they’re bringing him to present to Dany. I could imagine his eyes open, he looks up, their gazes lock…cut to credits.
Yep, I agree. That’s pretty much what I speculated here many topics ago. Not many others are buying into it though. We shall see.
We will all get to watch the season premiere by Monday.
Part of me really wants Alliser to join Jon, and become his bulldog Lt or something.
I started watching and it seems like a great effort, but wow, 43 minutes??
D&D wants us to get to like Davos just before Ramsey kills him. The flayed man in the big battle has less knuckles on it´s left hand. Just like when they killed Barristan, he was becoming a likable character for tv fans.
I wonder if they allow Google Glass wearers into the premiere? 🙂 Pirating with a live wifi feed, yeah!
(jk…I hope not)
In the same DwD prologue where the ‘second life’ of wargs is discussed, Varamyr Sixskins definitively identifies Jon as a warg, with strong but untrained natural talent. Bran also dreams of warging for a long time before actually warging; it’s one of the indicators of the talent. Arya also dreams of warging Nymeria. But on the show, there’s nothing like that for Jon or Arya, so yeah, it might not have been properly set up. I’m guessing they’ll just have Melisandre remember Thoros’s account and do it like he did. She’s at a low point, finally, and maybe she is now humble enough to pull it off, just like Thoros.
One more thing about that image of
He was wearing green and brown not black. It has been debated amongst the fans that in the books he still considers himself a member of NW even after declaring to march to Winterfell (PL giving him cause to “bend” the NW rules….) but if he takes the “blacks off” in the TV show it either means he´s gone full undeniable deserter or he has been legitemized by Robb and accepted it. There is a problem with this. tough …
It´s not in his character to dispossess his sister Sansa + he knows Bran and Rickon are still alive so no way he will be King Stark at the end of this season atleast.
Either way TV show Jon Snow is not nightswatch anymore nor can he return to it.
I doubt that he would be so hypocritical to put the blacks back on after the Battle of the bastards. So all said and done whats Jon Snow gonna do next season?
The North Remembers,
I like most of her ideas, but Brienne is not in that room. Behind Brienne, you can see the walls are made of wood. If you watch the new clip, the room where Davos is guarding Jon is entirely of stone, except for the door.
I suppose at this point, any speculation made about this episode could be true if based on the limited information provided in the clip above. Part of the fun of being here and reading all the comments is discovering things you never thought of and trying to piece it together, Sullied and Unsullied alike.
Yep, I would like that too I think. Not many chances though.
Ghost looks awesome. They did a great job seamlessly adding him to the scene. Also, kudos to Quigley the wolf for his on-point acting.
Jack Bauer 24,
I just copied and paste.
I wondered about Fallon and Kimmel.
Oh true! I wonder where she ends up
Forgive me for screaming, but…
The Grand Maester of Gifs coming through, as always.
I wonder about this too, but in real-world shamanic traditions, the onset of powers is always preceded by some traumatic event, and we see this in the GoT world as well. Bran didn’t start waging until he had a near-death experience. In the books
So I think it’s within the realm of logical storytelling that Jon’s death, or near-death, or whatever it turns out to be, could trigger this ability. Might be a bit abrupt, but GoT has established trauma-as-precursor-to-warging with Bran.
I have no idea how the show will actually resurrect Jon, but from my reading of the books, I theorise that Jon is not just a warg, but some sort of berserker/ semi-werewolf/uber-warg. He just hasn’t come to fully tap into it.
In the books, his “death” is not as clearly apparent as it has been shown to be in the show, and if there is ever to be a time when this tendency is to become fully realised, this would be a dramatic moment for it to occur.
There are a number of clues, but the scene that gives the strongest hint in the books has been left out of the show (for what are probably very understandable reasons). In the scene, he displays a nearly unstoppable battle rage which is triggered by Jon tasting blood in his mouth. (This is not the same as tasting blood from a kill that Ghost has made – it’s blood from a fight he’s involved in.)
Of course, I don’t know where George will take it in the books , and what the show will do is even less predictable, but it did give me a bit of a chill to see that first giant poster of “dead” Jon. The blood on his face is a spatter – it’s not like blood running from a head wound. A part of the spatter reaches his lips.
If blood from his attackers (as they fight their way in) should splash across Jon’s face and into his mouth 😉 – then there’s a chance that Mel would not be needed, and that Jon could get up and join Ghost in the fight, rather than fight in Ghost.
No screeners this year, so unless somone records it on their phone/tablet, not gonna happen.
No … the Shireen burning site is too far from the Wall for Davos just to ride there by himself. He will get there later in the season i belive. And remember Mel still has to “walk the walls of Winterfell” like she´s seen.
I didn’t see Edd there.
No reason to lengthen the wait between episodes.
But Davos’ missing knuckles are on his right hand (because Liam is left-handed).
Hoyti Von Totiy,
I feel like this whole season is going to be about various characters giving in to their instincts and abandoning identities that they’ve tried to establish over the past few seasons. Arya’s going to defy the HoB&W, Dany’s going to ditch the Queen of Meereen act and give in to her dragon instincts, and Jon is going to leave the Watch behind. And Cersei, by force of necessity, is going to devolve into the expression of her basest instincts, as we saw in the trailer – she’s going to abandon all pretense of governing, and choose violence. Characters are going to become the things that they’ve fought against being.
There shouldn’t be complaints about people failing to use spoiler tags properly. This site has a terrible design for that. The instructions for spoiler tags are before the comments. You don’t read them then. You see a long list of comments and work through them, find something to reply to, and scroll down to leave a reply. At this point there is no spoiler tag instruction. It’s hidden far up where you wouldn’t think to look. It’s bad design. Users aren’t to be blamed for bad design.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
That is on the assumption Jon will be resurrected right away. Jon was stabbed at night, the trailer shows him with feint sunlight, and Davos at the end by Jon it is dark again. So, Jon doesn’t get resurrected in minutes or hours. I am suggesting it is a couple days. Also, Stannis sent Davos back to Castle Black in episode 9 of Season 5 and he was at Castle Black in episode 10. Stannis’s camp where Shireen was burned is not that far from Castle Black. Winterfell itself isn’t that far from Castle Black with all things considering. But all of that hinges on whether you believe Jon will be resurrected right away, OR it will take longer or not at all.
What about the mercinary Storm Crows company? Where did they rode off after they deserted Stannis?
Ya think we will be seeing them again?
I’m just wondering, I remember that Mel said her “powers” are stronger at the Wall.
If she gives him the “kiss” like Thoros did for Beric then maybe she get a boost from the ice magic that is in the Wall. That extra boost helps her bring Jon back.
Loved the clips of Ghost, that’s one very annoyed direwolf.
Just because the instructions are not located specifically where you think they should be is not an excuse not to use them, especially as the vast majority of people figure it out pretty quickly. Moreover, right before the comment section begins is a pretty logical place to put them.
The flayed man is Greatjon Umber!
The flayed man is probably Greatjon Umber
The last scene of episode 1 is a close up on Jon’s eyes, mimicking the last shot of season 5, but this time his eyes open, and the credits roll.
Not that I have ever needed to use spoiler tags, but doesn’t one normally read instructions before proceeding? Especially if one’s been around for a while. Not that I personally find spoilers annoying. I mean spoilers are usually based on the books, and are super-complicated for any non-reader.
I thought he was still mute in the sense that he just can’t howl, but then they gave him the ability to growl because it’s more dramatic on screen. They never really clairify that one insofar as I can recall.
Yeah the people attending the Red Carpet premiere will have to wait 3 weeks to see a new episode while it’ll be fresh for us starting in 16 days!
Pretty sure I saw a photo with Edd and the nights watchmen rowing the boat at hardhome standing next to John opposite of ghost.
Is it just me, or did Liam seem genuinely surprised that Conan had an exclusive clip?
The whole spoiler dynamic has gotten rather silly and out of control.
A couple of days? It would make no sense.
1) After a couple of days, he would be a rotting corpse.
2) The Night’s Watch would never leave a dead body alone for several days (especially after what they saw at Hardhome).
3) Davos and Mel would never stay a couple of days in Castle Black now that Stannis and Jon are dead. It’s not an hotel.
I’m 95% sure that he’ll be resurrected the same night or the next day, but not later.
In the show, at least in my view, he’s silent in terms of how he moves…I swear I remember him kind of “sneaking up” on even Jon. It does seem, however, like they didn’t go so far as to make him mute in the show. It makes sense to me. A completely silent direwolf works on the page, but I don’t think it would work as well on screen. To me it’s one of those things that makes sense for them to adjust because of different mediums.
Bunny Without Banners,
Your welcome, (and it’s Ser… haha)
I wondered about them as well. Do we know how/when sellswords are paid? If Team Dragonstone managed to pay them in advance they presumably ‘owe’ some swording because they left before the battle. In which case I guess Davos or Mel could call in the debt? I really am just making this up as I’m going along – as you can probably tell – but presumably there are hundreds of them, plus horses, wandering around near Winterfell. Perhaps they make their way back to Castle Black to rest/stock up/for some other reason as it’s the nearest safe place they are familiar with and then get roped in for further adventures. Or maybe they vanish into the whatever happened to…? universe 😉 Or maybe offer to join Ramsay’s gang, although I can’t see them being keen on someone who’s a big flaying fan if they abandoned Stannis because he’d gone too far 🙁
is there any chance for a trailer 2? I wasn’t following the whole waiting in past years, is it possible that they drop another one by the next (2) weeks?
I posted this on another thread but go no response. I’ll try here and see if someone can elaborate:
If R+L=J then would J be considered a trueborn? I don’t get that, as R was not married to L. Obviously, still a noble birth, but I find it ironic that he could still be considered a “bastard”. Everyone always assumes if its true then he’s no longer one? Does anyone know the ramifications?
Daughter of Winter,
Well played, Ser….well played! 😀
Poor Old Dead Ned,
He´s a bastard.
(Edric Storm from the books is a “noble” bastard too and that fact didnt help him one bit)
It the simplest answer and the truith.
Had his father lived …. maybe things would work out diffrent but it didn´t.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Polygamy has not been practiced by Targs since the conquest 600 years ago.
Hell we know the Mad kings didn´t love his sister queen but even he the mad man didnt marry one more woman.
In short if it looks like a hot pie, if it smells like a hot pie and if it tastes like a hot pie then its a hot pie.
He is a bastard. EOD.
No, IMO I think that’s off. Davos has no dog in the game, so why guard the body of a dead boy he hardly knew to get a burial at a place he has little knowledge of beyond Stannis plan to wrest it from the Boltons. Hell, why guard the body at all, let alone risk your life to defend it. I think this just gave away that secret they’ve been pretending to keep all this time. To me, its not a question of will it happen, but when. Seeing this clip tells me it’ll most likely happen in the first or second episode.
If she’s unsure of herself for a lot of the season, doesn’t sound like she rezzes Jon.
Even though the sacrifice of Shireen didn’t save Stannis, there’s been a bunch of theorizing about how Melisandre might still be able to help Jon Snow.
I know. When he died, a lot of people who wanted to kill me after episode 9 came back and said, “We’ll forgive you if you resurrect Jon Snow!”
Highly doubt she would even allude to that if she were the one to do it.
I’m a bit late to this party but GHOST!!! <3
Ok, now finally some things become clearer to me – here’s my BIG theory:
Melisandre wants to resurrect him but can’t do it.
She convinces Davos that Jon is needed as Azor Ahai / to unite the North and lead the Wildlings against the White Walkers / to fight against the Boltons.
Then she uses a glamour on Davos so he can take the role of Jon Snow and lead the North and the Wildlings into battle.
With this happening, many pieces seem to beautifully fall into the right place:
-> Jon is and stays dead as Kit said,
-> Nevertheless there will be a Jon at the Battle of the Bastards and at the meeting with Sansa, LF and Ramsay, as reported by rumours.
-> Mel and Davos have their special common mission (as long as Davos does not find out about Shireen).
-> This is Davos’ big secret GRRM told Liam about.
Furthermore, it gives the show a chance to use that spectacular glamour theme (that was omitted in the show by having Mance Rayder die at Castle Black).
What do you think?
P.S.: In 2 days we will probably know more – I can’t imagine there will be no episode 1 spoilers coming from that red carpet premiere on April 10th 😉
Jack Bauer 24,
More to come from our interview with van Houten after the April 24 premiere of Game of Thrones on HBO.
I wonder what that means…
Jack Bauer 24,
Thoros of Myr was unsure of himself and doubting his faith just before he rezzed Beric. That’d create a nice parallel.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
First of all, it hasn’t been 600 years since the conquest, it’s been about 300, and however many years it has been, that does not change the fact there is a precedent for Targaryen polygamy. Secondly,
Thus, no, it is not certain he would be considered a bastard. That’s one of those things we’ll just have to wait and see to discover.
You can definitely find some understanding for Olly’s actions. He did suffer major trauma with the loss of both parents and his home. But it is not enough to justify his actions.
If the roles where reversed would someone like Jon ever do something like this?
It is pretty easy to answer that question, no he wouldn’t.
Olly is properly one of the persons who received the best or most revenge out of any character. The people who killed his family was killed right in front of his eyes. He himself was even the one who shot Ygritte, and he saw Jon kill the Styg the Magnar of Thenn personally.
I cant really think of anyone who has gotten that amount of personal revenge within Westeros.
It would have been understandable if Olly wanted to act out against Tormund. But when Olly literally had to lie and deceive Jon in order to back him into a corner or a trap without any method of defense, and then stab him to death, Olly had to realize that what he was doing or planning on doing is not right.
The problem is not so much with Olly’s reasons for committing the crime, it is with the way he went about, in other words his actions, that is the real problem. He was one of the main parts of the assassination. He used his position of trust to lure Jon into a completely defenseless position.
Emilia’s in LA!
Poor Old Dead Ned,
Personally, I don’t think it’s going to matter whether his parent were married or not. I don’t think the story will be Jon making a claim for the throne. His Targ/Stark blend will somehow be important to his personal character growth and the saving of Westeros from the NW threat.
And I believe that Liam has been the key spokesperson lately is because he is just so good at, so comfortable and charming, and he can handle the big question with ease and grace…plus it gives the top tier characters a little break from the monotony. Cool under pressure and he isn’t going to slip up and reveal too much. I certainly hope this is not his swan song. He is delightful.
Sullied by Knight,
I agree with the idea Jon will not be making a claim for the IT, no matter who his parents were, and whether evidence exists he’s “legitimate,” or not. I do think it will be interesting to see what comes of the information about his parentage, though. There’s a reason the audience needs the information (presumably), but the reason remains to be seen.
Hahaha eat that haters
I love sophie
That’s a pretty cool scene. I love how modest and humble Davos is, even on the eve of possible imminent death he’s so unassuming 😀
Did you just…
Say something positive???
Are you feelin’ ok?
Go, Sophie! I hope she gets to kick some serious ass this season!
The Omaze winner is up on their site. A Skype vid. I would have liked to win, but (from watching 30 seconds of video, lol) he seems like a really nice, deserving guy and I hope he’s one of our gang here on WotW so he can give us some scoop on the event! Plus, I love the dragon busting through the wall behind him! 🙂
You forget that the mutineers had a sign that said ‘Traitor’ at the scene where Jon was stabbed which suggests they never had the intention of hiding their actions.
Oh, fuck Olly. He had a terrible experience (like most people in the GoT universe). Jon was the only one who gave a shit – taking him in, killing the Thenn, not murdering him for killing Ygritte and all that…..talk about a displaced sense of vengeance. All the obvious sullen glares just confirmed how much the kid doesn’t care to learn, he just wants to lash out. Pity he chose the one person who actually cared and forgave.
Just curious as to the hint of the G. R. R. Secret reviewed to Cunningham.
Why would “HE” be told the secret, on the first meeting of the two, and no one else? Would this admittance implicate that he has a very large role to play in the GOT? What’s Davos’s back story? And what might be the bigger plan for him? He’s proven his loyalty, speaks his kind, has a kind heart, and is smarter than he gives himself credit for (a quick learner)! My feeling is that he has a much greater role to play in the long term, but I haven’t read the books so he may have a different journey there.
and long claw
New interview with Carice about Melisandre:
I’m sorry, but no, it’s not about my personal preference. That’s a silly little dig. It’s a design flaw, simply. To the person who organized it, it made sense at the time, when there are no comments the instructions appear above “Leave a Reply.” But in practice the place where you comment is separated from the instructions for commenting (by a mess of comments). It’s not that it’s terribly difficult to figure it all out. People do figure it out. But they do so despite the site’s design, not because of it. And in design blaming the user is the last resort.
Kristofer (Tormund) cast as Fast 8’s villain.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
That’s a very good question … They are in the middle of hostile territory with little or no food/horses, etc. Do they go over to Ramsey strenghening the Boltons … they are likely the only ones with another gold to purchase their loyalty but who knows …
Rose Savasta Erba,
I think you’re right about that. Even in the show, Mel saves Davos from Stannis by saying that “he has a part to play in the war to come”. I think Davos is going to stick around for quite a while.
The conquest was 300 years ago. And there were polygamy cases after the conquest. Polygamy obviously wasn’t a very common practice, but it has been done before.
The ToJ scene really spells out that Jon is legitimate:
Ned asks them why are they not guarding Viserys or Daenerys. And they tell him, that they are following their vows. Their vows are to protect the King. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard was not at the ToJ or with Rhaegar and Lyanna for the whole duration, he joined the others at a later stage. That also shows you that he knew exactly what he was doing and who he was guarding.
Of course it might be difficult to actually prove that Jon is the legitimate heir. But perhaps there is a witness somewhere, we know that Howland Reed knows what happened. Rhaegar could also have left a will before he went to fight at he Trident, just like Robb left a will before he went to the Twins.
HBO has changed the pictures of Second Sons and The Wars to Come to pictures of The Red Woman on HBO GO. Just something I noticed.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
According to George R. R. Martin,
“ Maegor the Cruel has multiple wives, from lines outside his own, so there was and is precedent. However, the extent to which the Targaryen kings could defy convention, the Faith, and the opinions of the other lords decreased markedly after they no longer had dragons. If you have a dragon, you can have as many wives as you want, and people are less likely to object.”
Maegor reigned from 42 AC to 48 AC. So it had been 250 years or so since polygamy was practiced.
Agreed. Olly is a little bitch.
Great things ahead for Sansa. Finally! Thanks for the link. 😀
I love her and happy to hear that
GRRM whispered : Death by fire is the purest death
For a long time I held that same position about Jon’s linage. But now I am not so sure. Jon might actually have to claim the throne if he wants the whole of Westeros to fight together against the White Walkers. I could perhaps see some potential conflict between him and Dany.
He could perhaps pull a Cregan Stark, and take charge of everything until the threat of the White Walkers have been extinguished, and then he could step down and return to the North and lead a quiet life. (But perhaps that would be too perfect of an ending).
Jon spends a lot of time learning to be a ruler or a leader. He has to use that experience at some point in the future, otherwise what would be the point of having such a hard learning curve? Dany is in a similar position in this regard, she also spends a lot of time to learn what it means to be a ruler.
Jon will need some real authority in order to command people to fight against the White Walkers or to make them listen. If he does not occupy some role of leadership why would anyone listen to him or take him seriously?
This is basically also what Stannis was planning at some point. He wanted to become the King of Westeros in order for people to listen to him.
Remember they left a sign that said traitor. That’s hardly hiding what they did.
It certainly appears to be about your personal preference, and making an observation is not a dig. If you want to take it that way, that’s your thing. Perhaps, were the coding difficult, and people had to look it up every time, you may have a point. I’m sure there are some who do have to look it up more than once. That said, it’s about as standard a coding as one can get. Thus, I’d guess a majority of people, once they use it once or twice, aren’t needing to look to see how to do it, again. Aren’t you the guy who wants the coding instructions to, in essence, float from post to post (if not, my apologies)?
Having the instructions immediately after the text of the article, but before the comments is, again, quite a logical place to have it.
Davos is the man! It may be wishful thinking, but I hope once Jon is resurrected, Davos becomes his “right hand man” now that Stannis is most likely dead on the show…in terms of honor, truthfulness and loyalty, David is second to none!
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Next thing you know I’ll be kissing D & D’s feet :-p
Good Evening, your grace 🙂
Thanks. I had thought there was someone who had more than one wife after the Conquest, but I couldn’t remember, and I was too lazy to look it up.
You make some great points! Thanks.
Maybe this is the opening scene?
Off Topic Otto:
It seems a bit silly for us to quibble over this. Your view is yours, mine is mine, and never the twain shall meet. I should have just let it go and not made the last post to you, but by the time I realized that, it was too late to make it go bye-bye.
The day you kiss D&D’s feet, well, I’ll just say I’ll need video documentation to believe it. 😉
And so it begins…
Exactly! He got more revenge than a lot of characters in GoT too.
Abyss. I should have commented earlier, but great GIF’s, once again. Thanks for your trouble. I think I am going to steal a few of them. I sort of like the one with Ghost and the three guys with their swords raised, I would call it “Dances with Wolves”…of course. 😉
About the RLJ discussion above: I think they got married lol.
If RLJ is true and he’s still a bastard, then he could have just stayed Ned’s bastard and his status would not have changed. No need to throw all the foreshadowing and hints. Jon being illegitimate wouldn’t impact the plot as much as him being legitimate.
I guess we’ll see what the ToJ flashback reveals. I don’t know if we’ll get the full information there or not. For now I just need RLJ confirmation, so all the other dumb parentage theories about time travelling fetuses and what not to stop lol.
Nice! There’s a lot of talent in the fandom.
Jack Bauer 24,
I don’t get it??
My bet is that this won’t wind up a brawl: Mel will probably subdue the Nationalists and allow their escape.
I’m betting, oh, let’s see….. 25 cents.
As for GRRM’s secret, well, that is obvious: he’s written exactly 25 pages since Obama became president.
Well, the Wildlings did kill and eat his parents, after all. But look for Olly’s attitude to be widespread: the Wildlings have killed and hurt a lot of people in Westeros over the centuries. As we are told last year, there are large stretches of open land near the Wall because the Wildlings have rendered those areas unlivable.
And Ollie comprehends nothing about White Walkers. That’s just something other people have seen: and what other people see never matches up to what you, yourself, have seen.
So, pity Ollie: he’s a victim in all of this.
It is no different than explosions in space being audible like normal explosions. It just looks wrong if there is no sound.
Hoyti Von Totiy,
Thats what i’m hoping for! I hope Sansa accepts her help this time around. I don know why I have a feeling that BecauseGeek was right about Brienne stopping by the Nights Watch. There orig. person pointed out that the room is made of stone but after watching the clip again I noticed there was light shinning on Jon Snow’s body…. that moonlight has to be coming in from somewhere. In the Insane breakdown Brienne is standing by the door with the hole, that same room also has a window…. idk…… looks kind of similar. Oh well, I guess we’ll have to wait to find out!
Is there any way the guy @0:32 is Three-Finger Hobb?
Not true, Targ bastards have played a significant roll in Westeros history. Blood Raven and the Blackfyre Rebellion’s are relevant examples. A Targ is a Targ and to a Baratheon is a challenger for the crown.
Because Davos is an advisor not a fighter. He needs all of the help he can get. All he has to do is make contact with a blade that sharp. Also, Alliser no doubt covets that sword and the Lord Commandership. That’s why he’s breaking into the Lord Commander’s chamber. It isn’t about the corpse, but he probably does want to kill Ghost. The good bros & Davos found the body when Ghost howled and brought him back to his chamber where it’s relatively safe. The only body Davos is protecting is his own, but he and many others will be heartbroken over Jon including Tormund & Wun to the Wun.
I want Thorne dead, so badly. This gets me stoked for Ghost’s revenge.
BEST COMMENT almost ever. Thank you TFT
The North Remembers,
This is exactly why I believe Ser Alliser is not present when Jon is stabbed in the book.
The last time the wildlings saw Mel, she was burning Mance alive while they watched in chains. She ain’t runnin’ into Wun Wun’s arms.
Where she says the names of the dinner guests who annoy her.
I would imagine it was a hint about how Davos dies? I have this extremely uneasy feeling now that he’s not going to survive the season, so perhaps GRRM told LC long ago when his character would go and how?
Exactly. It’s the potential ability that is the most important aspect!
“A Targ is a Targ” ??? I thought they were native to ‘Kronos’ and the Klingons domesticated them as house pets – A Star Trek version of a Direwolf – caw caw – says Black Raven 😀 😀
The North Remembers,
Not sure about the door. It looks like the room she was watching the old tower from.
Didn’t pay too much attention to the Klingon’s. The Borg Queen, Seven of Nine (silver suit period), now that’s a different story.
Yep, I certainly have to agree with you there 😉
Someone pointed out that there is at least one instance in the books where Ghost may make a sound, at least in Jon’s wolf dreams “when he closed his eyes, he dreamed of direwolves … his brothers were out there somewhere and his sister, but he had lost their scent. He sat on his hind haunches and lifted his head to the darkening sky, and his cry echoed through the forest, a lone lonely mournful sound.”
But if a direwolf howls in the forest and no one hears??? 🙂
My working theory is that Ramsay sends Pink Letter to NW after Sansa escapes as he’d assume she would head there
Night’s Watch traitors then want to send Jons body to Ramsay as proof of death a loyalty gesture to prevent being attacked
NW Loyalists want to protect Jons body from mutilation so that at least in death their LC is given a proper burial in keeping with NW customs and prevent further insult being added to injury
A nicely vague issue then, because regardless of what they may have thought of Jons policies, they have to respect the office and position of Lord Commander in death as well as life
Davos will want to prevent this because of his admiration for Jon
This would explain the look of puzzlement on Olly and regret on Thornes face as well
Okay, I need to ask this. Is it just me, or does the man standing behind Davos and literally right next to Ghost look an awful lot like Benjen Stark? I wish I could screen cap it, but the beard and hair look a lot like Benjen’s. I am probably wrong but really think Benjen would make an excellent twist.
I like this idea. It makes a lot of sense here. Coincidence the timing being so perfect that the pink letter arrives just after Jon is stabbed though. Because the scene with Davos/NW has to be the night/day of his death right? Unless we find out they already HAVE the letter and it is what motivated them to do the thing. Being unsullied and it not as of yet introduced, I forget to include this “pink” letter into my speculations.
I take it as more of a sign that Liam’s character has fairly big role to play in the story.
So you think Thorne’s breaking into the chamber because he believes it’s rightly his own now and Ser Davos &co won’t let him in because they don’t agree with that? They would still be guarding the body in a way though because they know what Thorne would do with it once they relinquish the LC chambers to him.
But I thought Jon was born several months before Daenerys? As for guarding Viserys, where was he at the time of TOJ event? And what is the age difference between the two siblings? I tried googling it but can’t find the answer. Thanks!
“She is taking charge and she is bringing the people that she wants with her to get what she wants. She becomes a leader in her own right.”
Ep 10: The Northerners bend the knee and raise their swords to the new Queen of the North. You watch.
It makes no sense for a character like Davos to die for a corpse that by all rights should be burned because ice zombies, so I guess the whole “I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai and Trohollolol shows me only Snow” at this point of the episode has been addressed by Mel and Davos, and Mel has somehow managed to make Davos reconsider his inveterate scepticism.
Didn’t we used to have a spoiler code click-y right on the comments toolbar? Curious why was it moved to the top, did some kind of webpage update do that?
Sullied by Knight,
If he is one of us would he have been able to say something here? Were it me I don’t think I could contain myself lol. But would there be a disclosure preventing it?
“because it’s pretty obvious that the reason people hate Olly is mostly ‘killed the good guy”
Yeah, if you want to put aside the particulars involved, in a nutshell, that’s it. Is it not enough reason to hate him? Lol.
” Dareon did nothing to Arya personally.”
Jon did nothing to Olly personally either. Neither did Jon do anything to Olly’s parents. They’re dead.
” Still, I’m pretty much amazed by the number of people wishing Olly death unironically from our world, given that, in our understanding of the situation and the developmental psychology involved, he was, at best, an immature person brainwashed into doing what he did, not a fully responsible adult.”
You mentioned earlier and I didn’t get chance to respond, about not knowing what part of the world I come from but in yours…I can’t find the exact quote but anyways….
In my part of the world a 15 year old can be tried “as an adult” and sent to prison (not death penalty) for premeditated murder. (But this is GOT we’re talking bout’. We ask for heads on spikes here, not jail cells lol.) It is assumed they know basic right from wrong by this age.
I don’t believe Olly needed much brainwashing to become a part of it (until we see proof.) He had enough hatred for the Wildlings (which he unfairly transferred to Jon) in his own heart. Anyways, you said you’re done with the conversation so feel free to ignore this post, I just never got a chance to respond last night so…. I see that others have explained it quite sufficiently. And if you still feel sympathy for Olly, there’s no way we can change your mind. You are free to not hate him and we won’t hold it against ye 🙂
I doubt they’re going to go into Blackfyre territory, especially since they cut Young Griff from the show.
Plus, there were 3 Kingsguard protecting him at the ToJ (one of whom was the commander), instead of being at Dragonstone to look after Viserys.
Lol once the WW are dealt with it’s back to playing the game of thrones. The kingdoms will need to be rebuilt, the Iron Bank will need to be dealt with, and there will certainly be houses who will want to have power and influence once it’s all set and done. I’m not saying Jon will start screaming about hit birthright and fire and blood like Dany, but if he makes it through the battle he’ll unwillingly become involved in what happens aferwards.
I’m not Boudica, but I can help with some of the answers!
Jon was born around 9 months before Dany (as confirmed by GRRM apparently). Dany was conceived shortly before sack of King’s Landing. Viserys was at Dragonstone with his pregnant mother and some of their supporters (Willem Darry being the most notable one, since he took them to Dragonstone before the sacking, and then smuggled Dany and Viserys across the Narrow Sea). There were no Kingsguards with them there. Viserys was around 8 when Dany was born. I don’t know how much they aged up Viserys on the show.
The mad king had his own guards watching over his son’s pregnant mistress (?) I know that Rhaegar had already been killed in battle when Lyanna was giving birth so…does this mean that king Aerys did not consider Viserys to be his true heir for some reason and was looking to protect Rhaegar’s offspring as the next in line? I’m probably getting a little confused here sorry lol.
OK so I don’t know why I put that in spoiler tag….?!
Davos won’t let him in because he’s protecting his own body. He just happens to be in the Lord Commander’s chamber because they just found Jon and brought him there.
Would love that
I think I’ll put this under spoiler cuts just in case.
Not exactly. Jon was definitely born during the war…most likely the end of it, since Lyanna was missing for about a year, and was pregnant for most of the time. So when Ned arrived at the ToJ, he either arrived right when Lyanna was giving birth or right after the baby was born (with Lyanna dying from complications).
After Rhaegar died at the Trident, Aerys sent his wife and Viserys away from KL, so she was probably in the early stages of pregnancy. The ASOIAF wiki says she gave birth to Dany at Dragonstone nine months after arriving there. The timeline is kept vague on purpose, but Dany’s birth is pretty well known since it’s associated with a big storm and was witnessed by many.
After the sack things wrapped up pretty quickly with Ned lifting the Siege at Storm’s End and then going to the ToJ. Stannis was then tasked by Robert to build a fleet to take Dragonstone. We know Dany was born in the year 284, and the main events of the rebellion took place between 282 and 283.
The part with the three Kingsguards guarding Lyanna is what is usually used as proof that Lyanna and Rhaegar were married and Jon is legitimate. Normally they would be with Aerys, Rhaegar’s other two children and Viserys.
We know that at one point Aerys’ wife crowned Viserys at Dragonstone as king, skipping Rhaegar’s son with Elia (who would normally be next in line). It’s all very confusing (and I think it’s kept that way for a reason). But, if Viserys was truly the king then the Kingsguards would have normally gone to Dragonstone after the crowning.
Hope I answered your questions 🙂
So then you think Thorne and his buddys’ primary goal here is to kill Davos. But if it has nothing to do with Jon’s body, then kill him for what exactly? I haven’t thought about it this way, that Thorne and Co. are on some kind of mission to root out and kill all those who were loyal to the LC and Jon laying there with ghost is really of no consequence at the moment.
What’s this mute ghost stuff? People being surprise about ghost snarling on the clip…. I’m definitely scratching my head while thinking “These people seems to have forgotten that scene when Bran checks out the crying baby noise in the dark through summer…” I remembered Rast or whatever that dude’s name was, taunted ghost saying “You thirsty?” then he proceeds to spill the water on the ground… Ghost SNARLED at him then snapped, causing him to fall.
Hope this clarifies the doubt of the mute ghost.
I can’t see edd there. where is he? maybe davos has sent him to bring wun wun and wildlings to save jon.
No, Davos is just in the way. Liam explained in detail what’s going on in a couple of interviews.
Logically, I agree with you. But when I re-watched season 4 a few weeks ago I thought: “I am glad they are killing your parents! You deserve it! I hope they kill you too!” Which, of course, is stupid. Part of it is that he killed Jon just as Jon became one of my favorite characters. I’m not sure about the rest of it. Because we are privy to things that Olly isn’t privy to. It makes it hard to sympathize with him. The writers don’t give us much to work with. His parents died in season four and he has done little more than give Jon the stink eye and refuse to see reason. Also, his nasty little shit face. I don’t know! I find it frustrating how I cannot sympathize with him.
Clob: Maisie is on with Seth Meyers on Wednesday (13th)
I hope he does a skit w her character like he did w Jon and Mel
I just found a posted theory on YouTube that is, to me, a theory that makes so much sense. I’m currently reading the books, but I only just started Clash of Kings, so I haven’t gotten far enough to spoil any theories yet.
The first video posits that Jon will come back but that Melisandre will not be the one who does the deed. Given that Dany was ‘reborn of fire’, I tend to agree and be fascinated with this person’s theory. I don’t think Jon will be beholden to Melisandre in any way and that he too may walk out of a funeral pyre.
The second video pertains to Tyrion and again, given his father’s hatred of him, I tend to agree here too.
I rarely post here, but I love to read all the theories. Just wanted to share and I know that many of you have probably already seen these videos.
So many questions…
1. What do the traitors want with Jon’s Corpse? And why didn’t they do whatever they want to do with it right after they stabbed him? I didn’t see any “Jon-loyalists” around when they stuck him full of daggers.
2. How did the Jon-loyalists get a hold of his corpse and manage to move it to that locked room?
3. How did Davos get involved in all of this and why does he casually grab Longclaw to use it in the upcoming fight?
4. Where’s Meli?
5. Might Jon be coming back as a Wight if all that “fighting over his corpse”-business goes on for too long?
6. Why isn’t he a pile of dust by now anyway? Both sides of the NW know what eventually happens to corpses in/near Castle Black.
7. Where are the Wildlings?
Damn that teaser .. now I even am hyped and willing to forget the bad bits of season 5. 🙂
Bunny Without Banners,
They cannot blame the freefolk. They have the sign that says TRAITOR. If anything, Jon ‘betrayed’ the NW but not the freefolks.
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