Game of Thrones Season 5, Episode 2 – The House of Black and White – Open Chat

AryaHoBAW

Season 5, Episode 2: “The House of Black and White”

Writers: David Benioff & D.B. Weiss
Director: Michael Slovis
Runtime: 56 minutes
Content Warnings: TV-MA: Adult Content, Adult Language, Violence
Synopsis: Arya arrives in Braavos. Pod and Brienne run into trouble on the road. Cersei fears for her daughter’s safety in Dorne as Ellaria Sand seeks revenge for Oberyn’s death. Stannis tempts Jon. An adviser tempts Dany.
Video Preview: Episode 2 Preview on Youtube

*Note: this post is for all viewers so please use spoiler coding when discussing spoilers.*

Spoiler coding is still required in this Open Chat post previous to the episode’s official airing (9PM EDT tonight for Episode 2). We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately.

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Sue the Fury
Susan Miller, Editor in Chief of WatchersOnTheWall.com

140 Comments

  1. mau,

    Yeah, same for me, there are some scenes I can think of (but wont mention here) that will be amazing in HD !

  2. Killer episode, and I can’t wait to hear what everyone thinks! Look forward to the discussion! 🙂

  3. I just realized something….

    D&D and GRRM both call Cersei Sir-Say…. yet the show pronounces it Sir-see…

    So… what is it?

  4. I’m thinking if I should stay awake and see this on the simulcast, but it’s already 00:36 AM here and I’m sleepy as hell.

  5. Mormont:
    The one day wait for living in the UK hurts, have fun everyone

    I thought Sky Atlantic will start simulcasting the episodes the same time as the US, starting this episode?

  6. ace: I thought Sky Atlantic will start simulcasting the episodes the same time as the US, starting this episode?

    Well, if it is that would make it a start time of 2 am in the UK. I suppose if one plans sleep on a Sunday night around watching at that time…

  7. Cannot wait!! Judging by the consensus it’s better than the premiere which I thoroughly enjoyed.

  8. At the moment I’m most looking forward to seeing Arya, and surprisingly for me, Dorne. The featurette they did at The Alcázar of Seville made me think it will be a really cool setting for those scenes.

  9. HelloThere,

    I would say Ser-Say (I am Scottish though not American so not sure if that’s why)

    ace: I thought Sky Atlantic will start simulcasting the episodes the same time as the US, starting this episode?

    Aye Sky Atlantic are showing it at 2am now (pity I have to start work at 9 so will have to wait til later anyway)

  10. HelloThere,

    I’ve always been of the opinion that it’s a classic case of American English vs. British English.

    GRRM and D&D, being American, pronounce it “Seer-say”. British and Irish fans and actors may naturally pronounce it “Sir-see”.

    It’s similar to Catelyn. Most Americans would automatically pronounce it “Kate-lin”, whereas I always saw it as “Cat-lin”, since there’s an Irish name “Caitlin” (pronounced the same way).

  11. I hope Arya featured a lot in this episode (and the rest of the season). I missed her last week so it will be great to see her again

  12. Cian:
    HelloThere,

    I’ve always been of the opinion that it’s a classic case of American English vs. British English.

    GRRM and D&D, being American, pronounce it “Seer-say”. British and Irish fans and actors may naturally pronounce it “Sir-see”.

    It’s similar to Catelyn. Most Americans would automatically pronounce it “Kate-lin”, whereas I always saw it as “Cat-lin”, since there’s an Irish name “Caitlin” (pronounced the same way).

    I’m in the US and I always read and said Sir-see and thought it sounded funny hearing GRRM say it the other way. I did however always say Kate-lin. Without the ‘e’ in the spelling I wouldn’t have been confused. 🙂

  13. I am really looking forward to this episode as it has one of my favorite characters in it, Arya.

    The season premiere I thought was very enjoyable and am waiting on the rest of the episodes to be as good or even better. From what I have heard about the leaked episodes, they get better and better, so really looking forward to this episode tonight and the rest of the season.

  14. My most favorite character in glorious HD! And in such an emotional, mysterious scene.

    Drogon, it will be so good to see you after a very long absence. But I am gonna miss the Tyrion and Varys river trip. However, Dorne, yes!
  15. Renegade,

    It really is good…I have spoiled myself for the

    first four, and honestly E2 is my favourite (though I admit without spoiling to being a huge fan of one character who will be apparent in the title credits). Also be prepared to be pretty pissed off at someone!
  16. Season 3 took until episode 3 for the story to really get going .

    but from I have heard about Season 5
    episode 2 seems like its going to be a really good one

  17. Sorry sky its on at 2am uk time

    Mormont:
    The one day wait for living in the UK hurts, have fun everyone

    Why do we have to wait HBO is westeros not based on the uk

  18. Yung Wolf,

    Episode 3 should’ve been titled “The House of Black and White” and not this one, honestly. However, this episode is still great, I think.

  19. Reading the books, I always pronounced that first C as a hard consonant in my head. “Care Say.”

    Then when I realized it was supposed to be a homonym for the mythological sorceress Circe, I thought it was just an unbelievably tacky naming choice. Might as well go all the way and just name her “Yvil’bytch” and have done with it. Bleh.

  20. We ask that fans use consideration for your fellow viewers, and cover and label your spoilers appropriately.

  21. cihan234678,

    Your spoiler is covered for me.
    I just reposted that because the way I understood it, it was asking not only to cover spoilers, but label them. I took that to mean if it’s a spoiler from the episode, to mark it as an episode spoiler.
    If I’m wrong about that, my apologies.

  22. cihan234678,

    Really? I thought the return of Jaqen was disappointing and could have been done much better, especially the part in the streets before it. The inn scene and subsequent fight after it was probably the only redeeming part of the episode. I am glad that they added the dwarf’s head, though. I wasn’t a fan of the Lord Commander election and felt that they left out far too much. In other words, it felt rushed.

    And it has a lackluster ending.

  23. Yung Wolf,

    The Lord Commander election already had an incredibly obvious outcome, and dragging it out with NW politics like they did in the books would have made for tedious television.
  24. Doran is a boss, too. Great acting. I just wish he had more screen time.

    Hopefully he plays a larger role in Dorne in the second half of the season.

  25. Can’t wait! Two more hours and change to go!

    I know we already got a taste of Braavos last season, but I look forward to getting more detail this season. It’s one of my favorite locales in the books.

    Also looking forward to seeing how they make Dorne come to life. The Jon and Stannis interactions will hopefully be as good as they are in the books. I’m also very curious about what the Brienne and Pod stuff will be.

  26. StandOzone,

    Because everyone else is presumed dead or completely out of her reach. Not to mention that with

    LS gone, we probably won’t see Thoros or Beric again.
  27. Another Michael Slovis episode! Expecting some more really great cinematography especially in Dorne and Braavos. Ready for Arya and some Sand Snakes!

  28. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
    cihan234678,

    Your spoiler is covered for me.
    I just reposted that because the way I understood it, it was asking not only to cover spoilers, but label them.I took that to mean if it’s a spoiler from the episode, to mark it as an episode spoiler.
    If I’m wrong about that, my apologies.

    Nothing has been actually labeled yet in the last two weeks as an episode spoiler. I’ve just been doing a Russian roulette thing in viewing spoiler coded posts. I’m not enjoying that in the pre-airing chat thread… but I guess there are only a couple more episodes to put up with it… hopefully.

  29. I’m SO excited to see sexy ass

    Ariane play Oakheart like fiddle, and Areo to chop his head off

    OH wait. Shit

  30. HelloThere,

    You’re forgetting a few who have been forgotten too:

    The Red Woman (for kidnapping Gendry), and Thoros of Myr and Beric Dondarrion (for allowing Melisandre to take Gendry away, and for not keeping their promises in general.)

    Presumably Arya (and the narrative) phased them out, along with Payne, in order to focus on the main people (Cersei, the Mountain, Walder Frey and, most importantly for this season, Meryn Trant.)

  31. Yung Wolf:
    Because everyone else is presumed dead or completely out of her reach.

    I wouldn’t say that the characters removed are any more “out of her reach” than the people still on it.

    I agree, though, that this probably isn’t a good sign as far as seeing the Brotherhood again goes.

  32. some people are going to be annoyed witht he omission in the opening credits concerning a certain southern region…

  33. I really liked this episode. It is much better than the premier, but not nearly as good as the next 2 episodes.

    Episode Spoilers:

    The Lord Commander election is rushed, but I still enjoyed it. I think it would have been better if they had Stannis offering to legitimize Jon at the end of an episode and the election in the next one. I also think, with as quickly it was handled, they could have squeezed it into last season’s finale, if the battle episode was in episode 8 and ‘The Mountain And The Viper’ was moved to episode 9, with Stannis’ arrival and the Wall material from ‘The Children’ added.
  34. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yeah, the fairly swift handling of the LC stuff is more reason I think they should have structured the Night’s Watch story last season differently.

    Of the two episodes with Arya in them, the next is much better than this one. I don’t know if getting rid of the worm in the skull bit was budgetary or because they thought it would look too unreal, but what they replaced it with was not interesting. There’s no rhyme or reason to her being rejected and then admitted, so what was the point?

  35. Sean C.,

    No rhyme or reason? It has just as much “rhyme and reason” (not much) as the equivalent scene in A Feast for Crows. The worm wasn’t a particularly complex or meaningful test: simply, Arya showed that she wasn’t scared, and apparently (for some reason) that was enough for the Kindly Man. Arya showing no fear to the bravos who harass her accomplishes the same. Not a particularly good reason for “Jaqen” to accept her, I’ll grant you that, but then again, it wasn’t a particularly good reason in the books either.

    They could’ve improved on the books, to be honest, by having Jaqen actually be there, since he did promise that he would train her to become a Faceless Man. A pity that’s not what they did. I’m still kinda hoping that the Faceless Man that Arya met in season two appears again. Or, at least, I hope it’s revealed that this Jaqen has the other one’s memories of Arya when he used Jaqen’s face.

  36. Luka Nieto,

    Being that nonchalant in the face of supernatural terror is really not that comparable to, what, talking tough with a few random street hoods? Arya’s already done the latter, and they should know that.
  37. I don’t understand what people want from the LC election. Is that supposed to be riveting television? It was tedious to read in the books and would be even more so if they tried to draw it out on the show.

  38. Sean C.,

    So you actually think that was the Kindly Man’s test? Not the classic “show no fear” test, but… show no fear of creepy supernatural stuff specifically? Come on… Anyway, even if you’re right, thank God they didn’t go for the worm. That would’ve looked absolutely ridiculous.
  39. Sean C.,

    Minor episode spoilers

    I wouldn’t say that. Tyrion does mention Thoros later on. LS or no, I believe we will be seeing them again sometime.
  40. JamesL,

    Yeah, and as others have said it is painfully obvious who is going to win. It’s the sort of scene that is a luxury in the books, but would get criticised by the general audience/critics due to this factor.

  41. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Do you think it was given the Cliff Notes treatment because the story needs to move a bit faster due to

    the trip to HH and the events that will happen there? I actually thought the LC vote was done pretty well, and Sam’s total burn on JS was awesome.
  42. Luka Nieto,

    I think the show’s versions is hardly a test at all, whereas in the book it’s much more ominous and threatening (to most people).
  43. Sean C.,

    Most people found it threatening? That’s news to me! I’m pretty sure it was meant to be funny, especially when she ate it. I laughed.
  44. Jodhi Mays name is in the guest starring column of the 2nd ep at game of thrones wiki. Does it mean a second apperance of Maggy or is it a mistake?
  45. Luka Nieto,

    Obviously it’s meant to be funny when she eats the worm. But the setup is meant to be scary, and clearly it’s meant to be scary in-universe.

    Assorted other thoughs:

    They do a decent job of handling why Sansa doesn’t want to go with Brienne, though they could easily have pushed the “I saw you at Joffrey’s wedding” point much further — though I’m guessing the writers didn’t want to more explicitly call attention to the fact that Brienne was in the capital for at least a month and never even talked to Sansa.

    On the other hand, there’s the expected plot hole of Brienne not bringing up Arya.

    dothrakian raven,

    Mistake.

  46. Sean C.,

    That’s not a plot hole. How would saying she met Arya help Brienne in any way? Sansa, who’s quite skeptical of Brienne already, has no reason to believe her. Anyway, why would Brienne bring up this massive failure of hers, especially once Littlefinger rattles off her other failures? Brienne is honorable, but not dumb. Bringing up Arya would fuck things up even further (even if Sansa believed her, which she has no reason to), not help her in any way whatsoever.
  47. I am personally glad that the whole bit with Arya kissing the Kindly Man’s skull and eating the worm was scrapped. Irrespective of its effectiveness as a test or the supernatural implications, I found it campy and vaguely ridiculous in the novel. Those elements would have been even more apparent on screen, regardless of how well-done the effects were. It’s just not consistent with the tone and visual palette that the show has established. Arya’s meeting with the Kindly Man/Jaqen isn’t all that memorable (aside from the welcome return of Tom Wlaschiha), but it serves its purpose. That’s all I require.
    I’m also glad that the Lord Commander election is set up and dispensed with efficiently. Watching Sam Tarly whip votes from featured extras in backrooms is not how I want the show to spend its precious time (I would rather that they spend that time on moments like the scene where Shireen teaches Gilly to read and talks to her about Greyscale. I’m sure that some people will decry that scene as pointless, but I thought it was wonderful – and funny to boot! “I know ‘S’.“) The drama (such as it is) of the Lord Commander election on the page doesn’t translate effectively. As Davos flat-out states earlier in the episode, Alliser Thorne is clearly going to win, and he’s not wrong (Poor Denys Mallister. Dude gets like five votes). Rather than engaging in backroom politics, Sam stands up and gives a touching speech for Jon that swings the tide in favor, and Aemon casts the deciding vote. Effective. Efficient. Perfect.
    Maybe I would have liked Stannis’s offer to Jon to have slightly longer to breathe, but that’s really my only quibble with the entire sequence. Ultimately Jon refuses the offer, so any time spent dwelling on it in the interim ultimately doesn’t amount to much (and they do follow up on it in the next episode).

    Luka Nieto,

    This. Brienne not bringing up Arya to Sansa is not a plot hole – it’s a very deliberate choice on her part. There is no way that Sansa’s potential follow-up inquiry would have turned out well for her. She ruined her chances with Arya when she admitted that Jaime Lannister gave her Oathkeeper – she can’t admit that to Sansa without getting the same reaction or lying, which she is vastly uncomfortable with. Watch how quickly her position deteriorates when Littlefinger presses her on the shadow that killed Renly. Radical honesty has never served her well. She’s learning – slowly, but she’s learning. Of course, Sansa refuses her anyway, so it’s a moot point.
  48. Pigeon,

    think it was given that treatment because, like others have said, the outcome should be fairly obvious. I don’t have a problem with them replacing Sam’s trickery with Mallister and Cotter Pyke with him giving a speech in support of Jon. My comment had more to do with rushing through Stannis’ offer to make Jon a Stark and name him the Lord of Winterfell. I feel like that would have been a good moment to close out the episode, and it would have had the unsullied viewers buzzing during the week leading up to the next episode.
  49. Jared,

    The Sam / Gilly / Shireen scene started funny and ended being quite touching. It also served to properly introduce Greyscale and, without giving a name to them yet, the stone men. In the next episode, Tyrion mentions Greyscale as well, and introduces the stone men to us. In episode four, Stannis mentions both again, saying they hail from Valyria, not the Sorrows.

    Obviously it’s all a set up so that we have an idea of who the stone men are when they show up; instead of living in the ruins of Chroyane, the stone men in the show will live in the ruins of Valyria, and Jorah will probably decide to go through the peninsula instead of around it as a short-cut, and they will be attacked because of it. They wanted the stone men, but without Griff and the others it couldn’t be done (Varys isn’t exactly a fighter.) It had to be with Jorah, and the only way to do it was to relocate the stone men. And what’s better than relocating them to Valyria?

    Honestly, in retrospect, that should’ve been in the books as well. Tyrion sailing through Valyria! That would’ve been really cool, and more meaningful than any old ruin. Valyria is a mystery and I’m happy we’ll get to see in the show, while Tyrion only saw the peninsula from a distance in the books.

  50. Clob,

    Yeah, I haven’t uncovered a single thing on this thread, yet I just found out something that’s going to happen in this episode from reading the stuff no one covered. FUCK!!!

    One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,

    Thank you so much for the “episode spoiler” note!!!
    That’s how it’s done, people.

  51. That didn’t take long….absurd fan fiction by Benioff and Weiss in the second scene. Just when I don’t think they can get any worse, they outdo themselves.

  52. I still don’t get why the nights watch seems unconcerned about the white walkers still lol

  53. Young Griff,

    And so it begins… It’s an adaptation. If you aren’t happy with it, quit watching. Why risk the books being spoiled for something you don’t like?

  54. I really enjoyed the episode. Had no issue with the Lord Commander election. Sam was effective and I loved it.

    My girl, Shireen, was awesome. Selyse scares me and she better not touch a hair on Shireen’s head. A discussion about greyscale…

    And Jaqen who isn’t Jaqen!

  55. The return of Tom Wlaschiha’s face, in addition to being aesthetically pleasing, I think is also going to result in some really nice connection to earlier seasons for non-book people. Love that they came right out and said, “I’m not Jaqen.”

  56. Also as a law student I loved Dany upholding the Rule of Law, even if a man should be tried by his peers and not by a monarch to avoid arbitrariness….

  57. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Yea I actually like him mostly due to me knowing how good an actor he can be. The rest tho idk, I’ve seen the other episodes with the sand snakes and didn’t feel like they fit but well see

  58. Shane Snow,

    I was looking forward to Dorne as much as almost anything else, and while I wouldn’t say they felt out of place to me, I was hoping for a bit more than that brief introduction. I think, once we see more of it (or once I see more of it, not to speak for anyone else), it will seem to fit more than it does, at present.

  59. Drogon took a look and a wiff of that platinum-haired, naive girl who once called herself “mother” and scoffed. “You ain’t ready for me, beeaaach!”

    He knows.

  60. Shane Snow,

    Yeah, but there is only one short scene. I think this SS hate is being overblown. We haven’t seen enough of them or Dorne to judge.
  61. I am interested in

    Doran, for sure. I have a feeling he’s as dangerous as Oberyn (if not more so) while being that much more controlled about it…which is excellent.

    And just like that,

    Ellaria

    has become disappointing to me. Boo.

  62. Yung Wolf,

    I first watched the episode nearly a week ago. I liked it then and it was better when I watched it again tonight. Maybe try and understand that people can have opinions that differ from yours.

  63. mariamb,

    I agree on all of your points. Didn’t mind Sam jumping in and getting the ball rolling, and Aemon breaking the tie was cool. Heartbreaking hearing Stannis offer Jon his oldest desire. Greyscale rearing it’s ugly head…;) Also loved the Brienne and Pod interactions. Sansa playing with Littlefinger. Varys and Tyrion in a box! Uncle Barry’s cautionary tales! Drogon! Not enough of an intro to Dorne…perhaps more next week?

    Everything was good and seemed to fit the tvWorld. I’ll have to rewatch for performances. I used to spend my first watch seeing what wasn’t from the books; now I’m distracted by, “Is this all new, or from WoW?” Geesh!

    ash,
    Nope. Me too.

    Dying to see inside the HoBaW next week. Was that The Waif speaking over the coming attractions? And next week: Inside Bolton Manor…duh duh duh!

  64. Ashara D,

    I think it was she. At least I had the exact same thought.

    There were so many moments in this episode I loved, almost every post I read reminds me of another one. 🙂

  65. Beautiful ~ loved every minute of it. And they all looked so good – Dany looks beautiful and soft again (finally); Daario is gorgeous and smart; Bronn all dressed up; Brienne in her new armour; and even Qyburn got a new haircut. When Dany was looking at Drogon, it reminded me of Ann Darrow (Naomi Watts) looking up at Kong ~ tears. This is going to be a great season. And Tom Wlaschiha is back ~ almost too good to be true.

  66. Just several thoughts on tonight ep:

    Stannis/ Jon/ Davos scene was excellent as far as I’m concerned. And there was temptation.

    Jon defended his Northmen for being loyal to the Starks. And got elected. I liked the scene. It felt exactly right.

    The North is still the best part so far. Meereen is good with a tight, strong story. Vale story is still weak, but no doubt it will pick up.

    And Drogon made quite an entrance. I thought it was awesome he showed up when Dany was at her lowest. Shows they still have THE bond. Or maybe it was just a coincidence 😛

    Geralt of Rivia,

    Yelled like a little girl at “Lyanna Mormont”!

    Hodor’s Bastard,

    Once. But not to worry. I have a feeling we’ll be doing some multiple shots this season at some point LOL That glaive looked mean and has a purpose…

  67. I thought that was spectacular myself.

    I’m feeling Dany’s relationship to the dragons in a way that I never quite did reading the books. Interesting.

  68. This was the weakest episode of the entire series that I can recall. Other than the LC election and our glimpses at Braavos and Dorne, I just wasn’t feeling it this week. And Dany’s story is as horrific on screen as it is on the page. She took a page right out of Robb Stark’s playbook when he executed Rickard Karstark but the outcome for her will obviously be much different. And at least in Robb’s case, the man who passed the sentence was the one who swung the sword. She couldn’t even get that right.

    I cheered at the Lyanna Mormont shoutout and her missive to Stannis, and enjoyed Lollys’ appearance. The meeting of Brienne and Sansa/Petyr was an interesting twist; I liked it, though I do fear for TriPod’s safety 🙁

    But after it was all over I felt let down. Like AFfC and ADwD, it felt like pieces being moved around the board.

  69. Nothing’s worth anything to dead men.

    Love! And I loved the Titan of Braavos.

    The vistas of Dorne were nice, but it feels like it could take a while to really get into that scene. My favorite Sand Snake is Sarella, and we won’t get to see her, I fear, for a long, long while.

  70. Ser Osis of Liver,

    Well, pieces are being moved around. I thought this episode was much better than the first, and nowhere near the weakest. I would rate it as the second best second episode, behind only last season’s second episode, which featured the Purple Wedding.

  71. So Brienne’s following Sansa, and Sansa’s going to Winterfell.

    And Stannis is going to attack Winterfell. And Brienne is going to be nearby.

    Is nobody else seeing where this is going?

  72. A good episode that felt very much like an early-season episode, too.

    But a number of great moments of undeniable power, particularly the decision by Dany at the end to serve justice, in a way that felt, to an extent, someone Ned Stark-like. Was it the wrong or right move?

    We also did visit with a lot of people this time around, even though they collapsed the cast a bit having Brienne and Sansa actually meet up.

    The Arya stuff was very good. Sansa too. Brienne gets a nice kill there plunging the sword through that dude’s neck. But really, and I’m surprised to say it, Meereen was the highlight for me.

  73. Ser Osis of Liver:
    And Dany’s story is as horrific on screen as it is on the page. She took a page right out of Robb Stark’s playbook when he executed Rickard Karstark but the outcome for her will obviously be much different.

    I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy the episode. Just out of curiosity, though, what would you say Dany ought to have done?

    Not meant as a ‘gotcha’ question or anything like that. I’m just curious.

  74. Ser Osis of Liver,

    The idea that “the man who passes the sentence should swing the sword” is stupid and clearly doesn’t apply to every ruler. What, should Dany have attempted to whack away at the man’s neck with a long sword? She did him a mercy by giving him a swift, clean death.

  75. In my opinion, the show has progressively gotten worse since season 2 and it reached rock bottom tonight. I thought this episode was the worst of the series by a landslide. Benioff and Weiss plain and simply cannot write. They are in over their heads with this fan fiction. Again, this is just my opinion.

  76. Tormund’s Woman,

    And that grin from Jon. 😀 They should’ve give Jon more time to consider it,because next scene is LC election.That could be my only complain about the Wall scenes,because LC election was solid.Efficient and pretty good speech from Sam.

  77. Nymeria Warrior Queen,

    Clearly, but I’m not wrong and you’re doing nobody any favors by pointing out the obvious.

    I thought this was a place to rationally discuss GoT and that criticism was welcome, but apparently not.

  78. Young Griff,

    Many, many of the people here appeared to have thoroughly enjoyed the episode. I count myself as one of them. It’s a shame you didn’t. 🙁

  79. Young Griff:
    In my opinion, the show has progressively gotten worse since season 2 and it reached rock bottom tonight. I thought this episode was the worst of the series by a landslide. Benioff and Weiss plain and simply cannot write. They are in over their heads with this fan fiction. Again, this is just my opinion.

    I think the show is better than the books, especially now that they’re cutting down on the Feast & Dance filler and getting on with the real story. Too bad GRRM couldn’t manage that in the last 15 years.

  80. Yung Wolf,

    Most people don’t consider their own opinions wrong, and I wasn’t trying to do anyone any favors.

    If you want to claim criticism is not welcome because someone disagrees with your opinion, imo, that doesn’t exactly demonstrate much ability for rational discussion on your part.

    Edit: And now you’re being “persecuted???”
    Ahahahahahahahahahahaha…

  81. Who goes on a fan site to bitch about that which we are a fan of? If you think the show sucks and has progressively gotten worse over the course of the last 4 years(!) why continue to watch? Why spend the time posting about it on a fan site where you know 95+ percent of the people will disagree with you? Season 5 is a 91/100 on metacritic. It is 100% on rotten tomatoes. The professional critics, who watch and judge tv shows, including the writing, all say the first 4 episodes are as good as ever. Sooner or later, the consensus is closer to the truth, and you either have to accept it or move on. It’s okay that you don’t like it, it really is, but don’t expect to change our minds.

  82. Tyrion Pimpslap,

    Being a fan of something doesn’t necessarily mean that you need to agree with every decision made by the producers or be ecstatic over every scene.

    This episode wasn’t terrible, but it was mediocre and a lot of poor decisions were made.

    “However, that is just my opinion.”

  83. Yung Wolf,

    I was mostly speaking to Young Griff. The type of poster who shits on everything. I have criticized parts of the show in the past (see season 2 and the Jaime/Cersei sept scene, among others), but I do try to judge the show as a show, and not just a checklist of plot points from the books.

  84. Oh, yes. This particular squabble is fun, isn’t it? I can never get enough of it. I’m just thrilled that it appears in every last thread on this site.

    Yung Wolf,
    I do enjoy reading criticism. But all you said was that you thought it was awful and “absurd fanfic.” That’s…not really criticism, is it? It’s hardly something that lends itself to discussion. Perhaps if you explained exactly what you didn’t like about it, or what about the scenes you found ‘absurd’ (or, for that matter, whether you feel departing from the books — which is what I assume you mean by “fanfic” — is an inherently bad thing for the show or not; and if so, then why), then we’d be having an actual discussion right now, rather than a stupid repetitive squabble.

  85. Regarding this and future episodes (minor point):

    Is Cersei not queen regent anymore? I was confused the first time I watch this episode, but there are several other references to the idea in episodes 3 and 4, that she is, as Kevan said, “The Queen Mother. Nothing more.” But Tommen is explicitly mentioned as not being of age yet. So…who’s the regent? Does he not have one for some reason?
  86. Yung Wolf,

    You’re right. I got my young’uns confused and conflated you with Young Griff. My apologies. That was careless of me, and I’m sorry.

  87. I loved Lyanna Mormont’s letter. I loved that it was clearly written in childish scrawl and also provides a reminder that the Mormonts are northerners.

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