Game of Thrones offers up “Inside GOT: Behind the VFX” after the premiere!

inside

The Game of Thrones red carpet premiere took place tonight at the Chinese Theatre in Los Angeles. After the stars hit the red- sorry, it was gray- carpet, and went inside the theater to watch the first episode of season 6, HBO shared something new for fans: an exclusive look at the visual effects of Game of Thrones!

Check it out:


328 responses

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    1. Unbelievable. These are always the people the make the shows and movies what they are these days, more so perhaps than anyone. They deserve massive credit, perhaps as much as even the actors/writers.

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    2. So damn cool.

      I know we all have a qualm or two with how the show is adapted but can we appreciate how great it is that it’s doing so well for HBO (and that it’s on HBO) that it can afford to do all this amazing shit?

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    3. so what from that video was actually new footage? wun-wun doing stuff and the corpses / wights sort of whirling around in the air, what else

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    4. “The sheer destruction of it all” makes it sound like S6 will please the action movie fans. I hope it’s not at the cost of the quieter, smaller-scale human moments.

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    5. They originally had Wolf Unit and Dragon Unit. In Season 3, they expanded to have three units, the new third one called “Raven Unit”. But in Season 4, they switched back to two filming units, and Raven Unit was disbanded.

      This video says they have *three* filming units again; we’ve also seen behind the scenes screenshots before clearly showing filming boards which say “White Walker Unit” on them. This seems to confirm that.

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    6. Jonah,

      I don’t think any of it was. All of the Wun-Wun stuff looked like Season 5, and I assumed the whirling whites to be the ones that Wun-Wun was throwing off of him as he went “TO THE SEA!”

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    7. Firannion,

      Unfortunately/fortunately (depending on who you ask) a story like this usually only goes up. We’ll have a quiet human moment here and there throughout the next seasons, but the scale of battles and action will only increase. The last season will likely have multiple episodes for a single battle. It’s kind of expected in an epic story like this.

      We leave the Shire and we can never really go back to the way it was.

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    8. This video isn’t as spoilery as the other 2. As others said, Bran, Meera, Hodor, and Leaf running seems like they will be fleeing the cave.

      Ian White (Wun Wun) is a huge human being even without the added VFX. I see an arrow sticking out of Wun Wun’s back 🙁 , him banging something or someone against a green screen pole, and him getting up from a tree truck. Wun Wun’s gonna be a busy giant this season.

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    9. Yes, looks like they are leaving the cave. When? and why?

      El-Bobbie
      I think the fire-breathing shot could be new. I can’t remember anything at that angle in Daznak’s pit.

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    10. dwm,

      Wun Wun had an arrow piercing his neck so not season 5 stuff. The wight flying in air was inside a cave so that looks like season 6 scene.

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    11. Looper,

      I’ve always pictured the final season to be about the new beginning, seeing what is left after the dust has settled and starting anew. I don’t see the show’s final scene ending on the highest climax and then cut to black. Maybe it’s because I see the final book delving into Westeros affairs as they begin to pick up the pieces and start to rebuild what is left of their world. If the White Walker threat is the ultimate final conflict, is one side conquering/killing the other going to be that bittersweet ending that George and D&D have promised us? Or will both sides come to some sort of agreement or compromise and live in peace? Maybe it will be something entirely different, but it is probably safe to assume that half of the characters that are alive as of now will be gone.

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    12. Kay,

      Yeah it looks like the dragon is standing up on a type of structure. Could be the tent. Or it could be if one of the other two are released and burn something up.

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    13. Darjan,

      That would definitely be a different kind of ending. I agree, there’s something about the WW we don’t know. Maybe they’ll make a deal somewhere along the way. Still, I expect a large battle. They’re building up to something and if there’s no action climax in a fantasy series I think a lot of people will be angry. But definitely we’ll get a few episodes afterward to see how everything is squared away in the end. I doubt it will be an entire season, but maybe an extended last season could give us 4 or 5 episodes after the big battle.

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    14. BunBunStark,

      Wun Wun with an arrow stuck in his neck reminds me of that spoiler that was posted on reddit, that Ramsey shoots him with an arrow at Winterfell 🙁 .

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    15. There VFX people are amazing!

      Every year they raise the bar. Watching GoT is truly like watching a big budget Hollywood theatre production in the quality of the CGI.

      Sure it’s not a Disney 250m dollar 2 hour Avengers movie but considering their limited budget and spanning 10h per season you could hardly notice.

      When GoT first started, I was wondering if HBO was just going to buyout some visual production company since paying them to work just for cost over a 7+ season of GoT would probably save money in the long run. HBO would also have its own VFX studio in place to do all their shows plus perhaps rent out for other projects. It would seem like a no brainer to me, then again I know nothing of the show/movie production workings. It was probably more like a wish of mine for HBO to put in place a tool they can bring out of the toolbox whenever needed to supply VFX so that cost for all future shows would be lessened, therefore giving all future fantasy show ideas a slightly greater chance of being greenlighted.

      I really hope HBO doesn’t abandon GoT once D&D decide to stop producing them.

      Like I said hundreds of times on here, HBO has an elite group of literally thousands of people that bring this show to life for us every season. It would be more then a shame if they cut them all lose to be gobbled up by other premium cable companies.

      HBO needs to keep putting coal into the fire and keep GoT, some spinoff, or some other new epic train rolling along the tracks.

      They have a super bowl team in place and they really need to do whatever it takes to keep this team together and working under the HBO banner.

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    16. I’m interested in the Hodor / Bran thing. It looked like there were two ppl running w Hodor. I will check again.

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    17. Yea. Two runners plus Hodor. Could that be from season 4? And then the fire might also be from four, when Drogon was eating goats. I’m not sure any of it is new. I would like it to be so, but unless there is someone else of a height w Meera, I don’t see how we can confirm that.

      Are we sure Wun Wun has never had an arrow in him? Not trying to rain on the parade. Just trying to figure it out.

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    18. Darjan,

      Martin has repeatedly spoken about the narrative importance of the LOTR chapter “Scouring of the Shire.” I believe he will do the same here, with a long denouement that will lastthe better part of half a book/season.

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    19. Apparently it’s not as good as “Two Swords” I didn’t expect that but that’s his opinion. He said it was a great episode but people said that last season too and for me it was a pretty dull premiere.

      I didn’t read the spoilers.

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    20. @TheEricGoldman
      The #GameofThrones season premiere is awesome! But I can’t say anything specific about it… Um, except there is conflict!! #GoTPremiereLA

      @JamesHibberd
      Just finished watching @GameOfThrones season 6 premiere screening: Spectacular. More to come…

      Well, at least we can expect a general review from Hibberd.

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    21. I will not read that, but for people that have does it sound good? Is the IMDB guy the same as the Reddit guy?

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    22. More non-spoiler twitter reviews by verified media members:

      @debrabirnbaum
      We’ve been sworn to secrecy about #GameofThrones so I’ll simply say this: AMAZING.

      ‏@Terri_Schwartz
      Just watched the Season 6 premiere of #GameofThrones. I am filled with so many emotions. And before you ask, no I can’t say anything.

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    23. Jack Bauer 24,

      No it does not seem like it. The Reddit guy seems to not be giving many spoilers, while the IMDB guy does. Both posted a picture of the theater screen so it seems they’re both legit

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    24. Agro,

      It actually seems fake to me. For one thing he says that the big Mel scene is her confessing that she was wrong about Stannis. But, Carice Van Houten has said in her interviews before, that she had filmed an amazing scene, which she knew was coming for around 3 years as people had talked about it with her (not Jon’s resurrection) .
      and this scene was in ep 1. It did not seem like she was talking about Mel’s regrets. More like there will be some revelation about Mel.

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    25. Demonmonkey,

      “Two runners plus Hodor. Could that be from season 4? And then the fire might also be from four, when Drogon was eating goats. I’m not sure any of it is new. I would like it to be so, but unless there is someone else of a height w Meera, I don’t see how we can confirm that.”

      No, pretty sure that’s Season 6. The other person running besides Hodor and Meera is presumably Leaf (or some other CotF). Just look at the short, but oddly shaped, hair. It very much looks like it’s a CotF.

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    26. Agro,

      Not the same guy. Reddit guy just edited his post, referring to the IMDb poster: “I can verify these are legit, although i would argue this is the better episode than two swords.”

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    27. Well, now we know what that cage behind Meera is….Bran! I called it, but people were like nooo, it’s too small. haha

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    28. The theater for the premier is huge. It’s no mall movie theater. It’s one of those classic old style true movie theater. I saw so many movies there as a kid. It’s beautiful inside. I wonder if they filled it?

      Agro:
      Jay Targ,

      Yeah, their photos were also taken from different angles, the guy on reddit said there were about 1000 people there

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    29. don’t know man. Jon coming back in the first episode seems rush and anti-climatic. I sorta take the guy’s comment a grain of salt.

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    30. Jack Bauer 24:
      I will not read that, but for people that have does it sound good? Is the IMDB guy the same as the Reddit guy?

      Others have answered your 2nd question. I’ll answer your first.

      It sounds really good to me. Lots of action at the Wall and with the chase outside WF. The other storylines seem a bit slow. *warning* *warning* *warning* The ending blows my mind. It goes to show we don’t always know what we think we know.

      Hope that wasn’t too spoilery for you.

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    31. Davos & Edd catch the tail end of the mutiny. Edd leaves Castile Black to get the Wildlings. Davos, Ghost & Brothers loyal too Jon hold barricade themselves. Ser Aliser has someone break down the door. WunWun shows up and Fucks Shit Up!!!. Tormund kills Ser Aliser. Olly and the other mutineers are killed. Melisandre tries and fails to resurrect Jon. It ends with Bran & the Three Eyed Raven Resurrecting Jon.

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    32. Another reason why I think the IMDB guy is fake:

      He says in this episode Tyrion only talks with Varys about the Harpies and that Meereen is in danger. But that pic of Tyrion and Varys in the streets of Meereen, talking to a poor woman, was from Ep 1 I think.

      .Besides, with the episode titled “the red woman”, I had guessed we would see Kinvara too. But I could be wrong about that. I am still not believing this guy though 🙂

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    33. mau:
      Speaking of E1, I will just say that I’m surprised about Jon’s fate.

      I wonder what Mel’s gonna think about what happened ( since what really happened isn’t really going to be known but to a few characters)

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    34. ghost of winterfell,

      It’s possible the Tyrion/Varys convo takes place while they are walking around the streets of Meereen. As for the the title, Melisandre has specifically been called the “red woman” by Davos. I’ve never heard another priest or priestess of R’hllor called the ‘red woman/man’.

      Of course, everyone is free to interpret the title however they want. Same goes about believing the IMDB & reddit spoilers. *shrugs*

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    35. Name *,

      She’s a writer for Vanity Fair and was at the premiere, she must be ?

      George,

      I thought about that too. If I was her I would have said the same thing tbh.

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    36. ghost of winterfell: Another reason why I think the IMDB guy is fake:

      Yes, I have doubts too, and not only about the IMDB person, but also the Reddit guy who immediately “confirmed” the IMDB guy. They posted pictures of the theater, but that could have been from someone else. It all seems OK, but just not quite right. Melissandre’s story just doesn’t seem to add up with interviews …..

      In other news, they really dressed up the location!

      @TheEricGoldman
      Direwolves at the #GoTPremiereLA after party. #GameofThrones http://pic.twitter.com/9ZrlxaohBR

      @TheEricGoldman
      Very cool effect on the wall at the #GoTPremiereLA after party. #GameofThrones http://pic.twitter.com/hNRMDe8hO4

      @TheEricGoldman
      Exterior to the #GoTPremiereLA party is also rad. Dragon! #GameofThrones http://pic.twitter.com/1WSGIlXo02

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    37. Season 6 Premiere,

      She wasn’t at the premier though. I’ve been following her on Twitter for a long time. Look at her older tweets. She was getting acces to pictures through a Vanity Fair photographer.

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    38. The main spoiler is bizarre and out there enough that I’m inclined to believe the spoilers. I don’t think people speculated much about the possibility. Plus, y’know, fire+ice.

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    39. I promise promise promise that the big spoiler Reddit/IMDB threads are fake spoilers. I promise. I am NOT working for HBO. Quite the contrary.

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    40. Well it is confirmed that they are fake, after all.

      Joshua Faught ‎@JayArEff
      @jowrotethis I saw couple of posts that confirmed eachother & each had pics from their seats as “proof” they were there. I WANT TO BELIEVE

      Joanna Robinson ✔ ‎@jowrotethis
      @JayArEff I know what you’re talking about and they’re false. Hate to break it to you.
      7:25 AM – 11 Apr 2016

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    41. To those that read the spoilers, I’m dying to know what you guys think

      about Jon being resurrected by Bloodraven & Bran? That just blows my mind. I was sure it would be R’hllor who’d bring him back since the prophecies about AA/tPtwP originate from the Red God religion. Bloodraven, I associate with the Old Gods. And how the hell does he have powers to bring back the dead? I’m getting a bad feeling about Jon now. Will he be controlled by BR like Coldhands? Oh God, I’m scaring myself. And I’m so confused. But I do looove that Tormund gets to kill Thorne. Yay!!!

      Edit: heh, looks like the ‘spoilers’ were debunked as I typed. 🙁

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    42. Hope the spoilers are true it will be a surprise to many of those who frequent fan sites and all ..who have thought that certain scene will happen by a way they thought for certainty

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    43. The Vanity Fair writer just posted:

      ‏@jowrotethis
      Furthermore, that big old Season 6 leak we’ve been worried about ALSO appears to be untrue. Hallelujah. We’re all back to square one.

      Wonder what she could mean by that…?

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    44. I’m sure that the privileged media would be pretty put out if someone yanked their “I know something you don’t know!” chain out from under them. 😉

      I won’t be surprised either way in 2 weeks! 🙂

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    45. mau,

      I mean, there is one pretty obvious candidate for a “big season 6 leak,” but I wouldn’t say anyone was *worried* about it. Huh.

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    46. mau,

      Yeah looks like it was debunked while I was posting that comment but still I think that would be a nice twist that not lot of people didn’t expect happen that way ..

      Am sure BR can be capable of something like that ..

      And another thing is it would have been fun to see the reactions and somehow trying to come up with how that satisfies with prophecy

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    47. mau,

      The big ones I remember are the one from 4chan user – the most widespread at least (horn of winter, walder frey wedding, etc) – and the one from an extra on reddit about the battle scene.

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    48. thornofhighgarden:
      The Vanity Fair writer just posted:

      ‏@jowrotethis
      Furthermore, that big old Season 6 leak we’ve been worried about ALSO appears to be untrue. Hallelujah. We’re all back to square one.

      Wonder what she could mean by that…?

      See now this kind of tweet annoys me. She’s debunked the foilers. Great. But why tweet something so vague? It stinks of “I know something you don’t know” childish behavior. And when people ask what she means, she’ll say she can’t possibly reveal such a big spoiler.

      My guess is her vague-ass comment refers to

      Rickon’s supposed death. Which hopefully doesn’t happen since so many have already written him off.

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    49. BryndenBFish (I think I’ve heard of him before, which is why I’m mentioning him) has posted this on reddit:

      Just as an FYI, it appears that reports floating around are inaccurate. I have it on good authority that

      Jon Snow is still dead by the end of the episode

      .

      Take that with all the salt you want…

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    50. mau:
      BunBunStark,

      But his death wouldn’t be in the first episode.

      Ah, so she’s referring to an episode 1 leak? Her tweet says ‘season 6 leak’ so I thought she was talking about something later in the season. So, if I’m reading it right, she means something we were worried about occurring in 6×01 doesn’t happen and we can now breath a sigh of relief (hence the ‘hallelujah’)? Color me stumped.

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    51. BunBunStark,

      Same here. I’ve had a crap weekend & when I read those spoilers, I was grinning from ear-to-ear for about 15 minutes… until I kept refreshing this post and found out it’s all bullpucky. I should have known it was too good to be true! 🙁

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    52. First spoiler-free review of the Red Woman:
      http://www.indiewire.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-premiere-red-woman-jon-snow-dead-20160410

      ‘Per HBO’s restrictions on what press attending the premiere is allowed to mention, all we’ll say about the world of Season 6, as introduced in “The Red Woman,” is that it is the show we’ve enjoyed this whole time — blood and betrayal and battles tempered with humor and epic plotting and strong character work. There’s no sense of anything really missing. Instead, there is the sense that new players and underserved ones may be able to take the stage in a renewed way, truly creating one of TV’s most unique ensemble dramas.

      “Game of Thrones,” as an epic fantasy tale, has its moments. But our investment, as it always is with great television, is with its characters. Season 6 is now primed to be as compelling as ever — and it doesn’t need any conventional heroes to do it.’

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    53. kam,

      “and it doesn’t need any conventional heroes to do it.”

      So basically, Jon Snow, the stories most conventional hero, is not needed to make the show compelling. Hmm.

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    54. mau,

      She doesn’t have to know anything beyond episode 1. It just means that something the fake leaker said is already proven false in episode 1.

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    55. El-Bobbie:
      kam,

      “and it doesn’t need any conventional heroes to do it.”

      So basically, Jon Snow, the stories most conventional hero, is not needed to make the show compelling. Hmm.

      The title of the review is “Jon Snow’s Fate is Great News”

      !!!!!!!!!!

      ??

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    56. kam:
      First spoiler-free review of the Red Woman:
      http://www.indiewire.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-premiere-red-woman-jon-snow-dead-20160410

      Season 6 is now primed to be as compelling as ever — and it doesn’t need any conventional heroes to do it.’

      Oh boy, here we go with the vague reviews that make it seem like ‘conventional hero’ Jon Snow is not coming back. The way I see it is that if these critics are complying (read: being threatened) with HBO’s request that they don’t reveal any detailed spoilers, then they will also do as HBO bids when it comes to playing the ‘Jon Snow is dead dead dead’ game. At least that’s my take on this review and any forthcoming ones. I’m not going to let them freak me out.

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    57. Name *:
      The Telegraph’s got a review up:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/04/11/game-of-thrones-season-6-world-premiere-is-jon-snow-dead/

      This review confirms the fact that we’re getting a “Melisandre twist” in the opener:

      “The mystical Melisandre…in no way dominates the action, but by the hour’s end, with a luridly surprising twist, sets the scene for some powerful sorcery to come.”

      So I guess somehow Mel recovers her faith and starts doing some real magic for a change?

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    58. Anvil,

      Lol, so much of the critic community has become a joke in recent years. I wish they would just keep that type of analysis on specific websites dedicated to that type of “social commentary” but it is quickly becoming the standard for reviewing entertainment especially on these “New Media” websites.

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    59. Name *:
      The Telegraph’s got a review up:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/04/11/game-of-thrones-season-6-world-premiere-is-jon-snow-dead/

      the opener is the expected epic scenes of armies on the march, along with defiant declarations to avenge the dead.

      Hmm, someone help me out, I’m drawing a blank: which is the army on the march in 6×01? Do they mean the

      Dothraki khahasar?

      The burning question (no Melisandre-related pun intended) on every fan’s lips, of course – is Jon Snow really dead? – cannot be answered here.

      What’s there to answer? We’ve been told for 10 months the guy is dead. Right?? Gods, these reviews.

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    60. phantomstrife:
      BunBunStark,

      I very much doubt that rezzed Jon is going to be a ‘conventional hero’. He’s that pre-revival. He will obviously change.

      Perhaps. But the article I quoted is a review of episode 1 only, in which the resurrection hasn’t happened. Who’s been the most ‘conventional hero’ up to this point? In my view, that was a thinly veiled reference to Jon in an attempt to unnerve fans.

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    61. Damn, those spoilers made me hyped. I was stupid for believing lol.

      Looks like Jon stays dead in episode 1. That sucks, I wished he came back in the Season Premiere. 🙁

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    62. The selected journalists will write whatever suits HBO. It’s a trade-off for their invitation to the premiere.

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    63. phantomstrife,

      But good journalist’s and reviewers are also aware that reviews should not be spoilers and it is important for them not to ruin the experience for their readers whilst providing the necessary critique.

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    64. Name *,

      (That said, a new action-packed trailer revealing more content from the season screened after premiere.)

      !

      Hopefully we’ll be seeing that soon.

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    65. From Joanna Robinson

      (The massive bonkers season-long 4Chan leak that looked false and smelled false is false. That’s all.)

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    66. Yes! I think we’ll definitely get a new trailer soon. No point in making one just for that audience. And next week is too late to show it, so I think it’ll come this week. Maybe even in the next couple days.

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    67. BunBunStark,
      They are not saying that he’s not coming back… eventually. They are saying that the absence of Ned/Robb/Stannis/temporarily-Jon – “straight white able-bodied men who are usually the leading men” – opened the show to other types of characters. Women, non-able-bodied men (think Tyrion/Jaime), minorities (to a smaller extent imho, but we’ll see), and also straight white men put in the sidekick role (think Davos, Pod, Sam).

      That’s a pretty good point, I think – I’ve had people whining ‘so who am I supposed to support now that Stannis is dead? There are no cool characters left,’ which is exactly this type of thinking, just from the other side. ? Meanwhile, Jon will be back, eventually, but it’s cool to watch other people carry the narrative.

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    68. mau,

      After every episode they show clips from the next episode. Often after a premiere the preview clips are for the entire rest of the season instead of just the next episode. You most likely won’t see that “trailer” till after the premiere.

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    69. Some points from the 2 reviews:

      From the Telegraph:
      The new season opens with Jon’s corpse.
      Arya’s scenes in E1 are hard to watch

      Its hinted very strongly that Brienne finds and rescues Sansa.

      From EW:
      Lots of screentime for Castle Black
      Some genuinely shocking twists which even hardcore fans would not have seen coming. I guess this relates to Mel.

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    70. ghost of winterfell:
      Some points from the 2 reviews:

      From the Telegraph:
      The new season opens with Jon’s corpse.
      Arya’s scenes in E1 are hard to watch

      From EW:
      Lots of screentime for Castle Black
      Some genuinely shocking twists which even hardcore fans would not have seen coming. I guess this relates to Mel.

      The Telegraph article also mentions a “Melisandre twist” explicitly.

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    71. phantomstrife:
      BunBunStark,

      I very much doubt that rezzed Jon is going to be a ‘conventional hero’. He’s that pre-revival. He will obviously change.

      According to that particular review, if you read it in full, Jon’s conventional because he’s a white straight male. That’s how they categorise him.

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    72. pentriloquist:
      mau,

      It most definitely has. They played this one after the season 2 premiere:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrQsRSNqGLQ

      They didn’t do it for all of the seasons, but they did for a few.

      JamesL:
      pentriloquist,

      Here’s another one for season 4

      Ah ha, once JamesL mentioned the possibility that the new trailer might be paired with the premiere, I remembered something similar happening in previous seasons. So, yeah, I think this trailer is probably one of those “in the weeks ahead” things and we won’t see it until 4/24.

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    73. Valaquen,

      Straight white male = conventional hero. Screw character complexity, screw depth and motivations. Straight white male equals stereotype these days. That’s not a person/character anymore. It’s a f-cking label. Well done to the moron who managed to conceive this – they just redefined social values.

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    74. Shadow Baby #2,

      But is Jon even all that complex? Is there a whole lot of depth? No. He’s a conventional good guy who wants to do the right thing. His biggest stain is that he was raised as a bastard (in a castle with all the luxury he could ever need). And even his bastard mark will probably be removed by the end of all of this. And yes, straight white male IS the conventional hero in the majority of film/television. That’s a fact, not opinion.

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    75. El-Bobbie:
      Shadow Baby #2,

      But is Jon even all that complex? Is there a whole lot of depth? No. He’s a conventional good guy who wants to do the right thing. His biggest stain is that he was raised as a bastard (in a castle with all the luxury he could ever need). And even his bastard mark will probably be removed by the end of all of this. And yes, straight white male IS the conventional hero in the majority of film/television. That’s a fact, not opinion.

      Being a good guy in Westeros is not complex? How does that work? It’s harder for one to stick to one’s principles and not cross that line in the sand in Westeros than it is to do nasty stuff and then go on a ‘redemption arc’. Folks like Ned, Brienne, Davos and Jon have it that much harder because it’s not all that hard to do the wrong thing and get away with it in Westeros, but harder still to maintain one’s integrity.

      I never understood this concept of the good guys and gals not being complex. Is not Jon’s desire to go to the NW and make something of himself, despite his bastardy, real and complex? Does his changing opinions about the Wildlings not make him complex? What about his love for his sister and his intentions to forsake his vows for family?

      Complex is not only for characters who rape and murder, lose some body parts and go for a redemption arc.

      And most characters on this show are rather conventional for fantasy. Including warrior princesses, plucky tomboys, beauty and the beast. Hell characters like Jaime have existed from the time of Dickens.

        Quote  Reply

    76. El-Bobbie:
      SerNoName,

      Yeah, no, he’s not all that complex in my opinion. He’s the classic/conventional/traditional hero. Even GRRM admits as much.

      Jon may be classic/traditional but how does that make him not complex? Does being a traditional hero somehow take away from the complexity? I am not sure I understand?

      I find Jon to be incredibly complex. His ambitions that led him to the NW, slowly becoming more mature and learning from Sam, Jeor, Aemon etc., his views on the Wildlings changing with his interaction with them, his love for Ygritte, him having a crisis of faith over not being to able to save Arya and then ditching everything to go save her.

      But then I have never agreed with the narrative that good= boring and not complex and bad= interesting and complex. Never made much sense to me. I find book Jaime to be totally uninteresting and am instead loving the focus on Cersei in the show.

      I do agree that show Jon lacks the complexity of his book version, since they focus more on him being in the big battles swinging a sword than on him as a character. It does not help that Jon is a tough character to do as he is one those characters whose complexity is imbued in his thoughts.

        Quote  Reply

    77. El-Bobbie,

      Jon is a conflicted Hero illustrated by many things such as he ‘forbidden’ love for Ygritte that was basically breaking his vows to the watch and The merciless execution of the brother(like Joffrey did to Ned) that refused to follow his instruction. Showing that He is as flawed as any character.

        Quote  Reply

    78. That indiewire article is total SJW trash by the way. They want the show to get rid of the good looking straight, white men and focus on everyone else? LOL! Only Tumblr will be watching the show at that point.

      Already all this ‘GOT being a feminist show this season and being all about the ladies’ is getting my hackles up. Just tell the story that is meant to be told and don’t pander to social media outrage. Many a show has been destroyed from listening to a certain section of fans online.

        Quote  Reply

    79. mau,

      I’m not. I’m surprised at the timing though. A couple of us floated the theory around last fall when a certain promo material came out. Regardless, I’m not going to take those spoilers as gospel truth. Even if the people were truly there, they could be trolling, no?

        Quote  Reply

    80. SerNoName,
      Complex heroes often make mistakes. Tyrion killed Shae. Dany crucified people. Jaime nearly killed Bran. Bran abused Hodor. Arya murdered some innocent people. Sansa betrayed her own father. Robb thought with his dick, and Stannis burned a daughter. By comparison, what huge mistakes has Jon made – especially mistakes that you would disagree with?

      …Also, peeps, nobody wants to eliminate straight white men from fiction. More like, add other people and make them important as well. This is Cool.

        Quote  Reply

    81. EW confirms that they really did film in Iceland. Cool, it was rumored Jaime and Bronn filmed there, but we were never sure. I wonder what they filmed there.

        Quote  Reply

    82. dragonreborn:
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/2016/04/11/game-of-thrones-season-6-world-premiere-is-jon-snow-dead/

      “The burning question (no Melisandre-related pun intended) on every fan’s lips, of course – is Jon Snow really dead? – cannot be answered here.”

      They’ve been so eager to say Jon is dead the whole time. If that was true why would they tell press not to talk about it?

      My best guess now is that Jon stays dead in this episode but a “Melisandre twist” near the end happens that supposedly sets us up for “greater sorcery ahead” ( Telegraph review) and maybe casts doubt on his “upcoming state of deadness”?

        Quote  Reply

    83. ghost of winterfell,

      Ugh. I SHould have read through whole thread before making comments then. Not to mention having the naivety to think for a moment they could be true 🙁 I would LOVE if they were. Woudnt we all.

        Quote  Reply

    84. Yaga,

      Jon started as an emo teenager, who later understood that other people had worse problems than he did. This realisation leads him to befriend and protect these same people. This was in S1. In S2, Jon got 4 NW men killed because he let Ygritte escape (show only). He tried to make amends for that by pretending to become one of the Wildlings and living amongst them. In S3 he betrayed Ygritte for his vows. In S5 he was so focused on the big picture that he failed to realize what was happening within the NW, which led to him getting killed. In the books, he had to make even harder choices, like interfering with the Northern politics, something he was sworn not to do, or giving up his vows to save Arya. Jon has been constantly growing across all seasons/ books. Maybe it’s more of a slow burn compared to other arcs, but his story is still a very compelling one, which is all that matters at the end of the day. Which is also why so many people are invested in him, imo.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Yaga:
      SerNoName,
      Complex heroes often make mistakes. Tyrion killed Shae. Dany crucified people. Jaime nearly killed Bran. Bran abused Hodor. Arya murdered some innocent people. Sansa betrayed her own father. Robb thought with his dick, and Stannis burned a daughter. By comparison, what huge mistakes has Jon made – especially mistakes that you would disagree with?

      …Also, peeps, nobody wants to eliminate straight white men from fiction. More like, add other people and make them important as well. This is Cool.

      I’m not completely disagreeing with your overall sentiment, but can you help me out with the Arya thing? My memory is pretty shit at the best of times, and I’m a couple of wines down already: when did she kill innocent people? I don’t doubt she’s capable – just struggling to recall.

      I tend to think Jon is both a conventional hero *and* a complex character. Yeah, he’s a relatively privileged, able-bodied white guy with a chip on his shoulder and a penchant for redheads (including Tormund, ha!). But he also rather unforgivably betrayed the woman he loved, and I think that was a huge character moment for him. He didn’t kill her, like Tyrion did Shae, but he may as well have.

      The argument that there are already plenty of attractive, white, het men in fantasy fic and tv in general is entirely valid, mind you. I want Jon back in some form, but I’m also very invested in other characters like Arya, Sansa and Brienne taking control of their respective destinies.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Yaga:
      SerNoName,
      Complex heroes often make mistakes. Tyrion killed Shae. Dany crucified people. Jaime nearly killed Bran. Bran abused Hodor. Arya murdered some innocent people. Sansa betrayed her own father. Robb thought with his dick, and Stannis burned a daughter. By comparison, what huge mistakes has Jon made – especially mistakes that you would disagree with?

      How about separating a mother from her child? how about rashly making the decision to go save his little sister without thinking though on the consequences about how the NW would react?

      What about the conflicted decisions he did make? He had to choose between Ygritte and the NW, between killing an old man and the NW and he held true to his principles. Why does that not make him complex?

      It baffles me that a person is only complex, when they do bad things. Ex: Jaime tries to kill an innocent child – Complex. Jon refuses to kill an innocent old man – Not complex. Why?

      Ned is often faulted as being an idiot because he warned Cersei. He did the right thing and paid for it. Jon let the wildlings in against the wishes of the bigoted NW, did the right thing and paid for it. The good guys make some conflicted decisions and pay for holding on their integrity. The bad guys do the most awful things, which apparently make them interesting, and then continue to enjoy the benefits of being bad in Westeros.

      There are good people too in the real world. They are not any less interesting or less complex than the bad guys. I find Jon to be more relatable than characters like Sandor and Jaime.

        Quote  Reply

    87. ghost of winterfell,

      I never saw Jon as an emo teenager in the true sense of the word. The curly thing hair it seems to have some importance to the way the specific character looks like but other than that he is far beyond anything that has to do with what the term emo teenager means, at least in my eyes.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Luka Nieto,

      Or maybe Yunkais who have come to Meereen? It would be exciting of course to see Yunkai again, was there any information about a Yunkai presence in S6?

        Quote  Reply

    89. dothrakian raven:
      Luka Nieto,

      Or maybe Yunkais who have come to Meereen? It would be exciting of course to see Yunkai again, was there any information about a Yunkai presence in S6?

      That’s what I meant. A Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, sieging the city, just as in the books. And yes, there is information about a Yunkish presence in seaosn six; the emissary from season three will reappear in a few episodes, early and late in the season. Yunkai, the city itself, will probably not appear, of course.

        Quote  Reply

    90. SerNoName,

      I think most agree with the general jest of your post, though I think you should not frame Ned’s/Jon’s deaths as a result of ‘being good’. Their demise was the result of short sightedness (maybe because they were out of their depth?). Especially with regards to Jon this has always baffled me (in the books as well). Jon has always been a rather emphatic individual, easily able to see the perspective of others. This is what makes him a natural leader. I do believe he recognised the widespread dissent amongst his fellow watchmen, yet he never addressed it fully. Maybe he didn’t have enough time and events overwhelmed him.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Luka Nieto: That’s what I meant. A Yunkish army at the gates of Meereen, sieging the city, just as in the books. And yes, there is information about a Yunkish presence in seaosn six; the emissary from season three will reappear in a few episodes, early and late in the season. Yunkai, the city itself, will probably not appear, of course.

      This will probably be the show version of the “Battle of Fire” that will occur in the books if George ever gets around to finish them (episode 10? Maybe? or maybe episode 8?)

        Quote  Reply

    92. El-Bobbie,

      That is certainly an opinion and not a fact. There are plenty of stereotypical characters in the visual medium. It is not a matter of what kind of cast is Jon’s character taken from. What it matters is how this character evolves in the story, how he reacts with the a set of other characters, what kind of twists in the plot transform him as a person, what moral choices and dilemmas define his development etc. And when it comes to Jon there are plenty of these and they certainly come at a high cost for his stereotype. By calling him so is just self-referential because this is the basis for most of the characters in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    93. George,

      I can’t remember exactly, but didn’t Javi from L7R say that

      the shot of horses charging in the desert from the trailer is from episode 10?

      I’d imagine that this would fit in the same episode.

        Quote  Reply

    94. SerNoName,

      Very well said.

      I also think Ned’s decision to tell Cersei the truth comes from his objections to killing children. He doesn’t want a repeat of what happened with the Targaryen children and knows Robert might try and have Cersei’s children killed like he was trying to kill Dany all this time (“Robert’s wrath will follow you” and “I will not have their blood on my hands”).

        Quote  Reply

    95. dothrakian raven,

      Um, no it’s not opinion. Most heroes in television and movies are straight white males. That’s just how it is. There are things a straight white hero can do that would make him unconventional of course. Their personality, the decisions they make, etc. But Jon Snow is not that guy. He’s conventional. He’s the “classic hero” (up to this point at least), even GRRM has said so.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Name *:
      George,

      I can’t remember exactly, but didn’t Javi from L7R say that

      I’d imagine that this would fit in the same episode.

      I missed that. It does make sense. Anyway, it’s gonna be the climax, whenever it happens; somewhere between episode 8 and 10.

        Quote  Reply

    97. El-Bobbie,

      Being conventional does not mean that character cannot be complex or compelling.

      dothrakian raven,

      I said emo, because he spends much of the first book feeling angry and angsy about being a bastard, about not being given preferential treatment in the NW etc. But he grows beyond that though.

        Quote  Reply

    98. koempel:
      SerNoName,

      I think most agree with the general jest of your post, though I think you should not frame Ned’s/Jon’s deaths as a result of ‘being good’. Their demise was the result of short sightedness (maybe because they were out of their depth?). Especially with regards to Jon this has always baffled me (in the books as well). Jon has always been a rather emphatic individual, easily able to see the perspective of others. This is what makes him a natural leader. I do believe he recognised the widespread dissent amongst his fellow watchmen, yet he never addressed it fully. Maybe he didn’t have enough time and events overwhelmed him.

      I think Jon did realize the wide spread dissent, but he still plowed through because there was nothing else he could do? He did have several discussions with Marsh and Yarwick and that Maester, but nothing he said managed to convince them otherwise. They were too blinded by their enmity with the Wildlings.

      I think the straw that broke the camel’s back was his decision to go after Arya and that was indeed very short sighted. I thought he rushed into that without thinking it through and discussing with the other brothers and only taking Tormund into confidence. He got the Wildlings and lost the NW. I think his speech in the shield hall is what forced the mutineers hand.

      As for Ned, I do think he was caught between a rock and a hard place. He was isolated in KL without any support and had no choice but to trust people like LF even though he knew LF was shady. He warned Cersei because he wanted to save her children. He knew it was risky and took the chance and doomed his entire family. Maybe he was short sighted. But see, I can appreciate that he took that risk to save a child as opposed to Jaime trying to kill a child to cover up his adultery. Ned paid for trying to save a child and I find that to be a complex and relatable motivation.

      And Ned also had terrible bad luck when Robert managed to get gored by a boar. Which is what I mean, when I say that it’s doubly hard to be the good guy in Westeros. GRRM makes it that much harder on them. LF has so much plot armor that shield him constantly. Like Tyrion doing nothing about him even though he knows that LF framed with that dagger. Ned had no such armor.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Name *:
      Flayed Potatoes,

      Why?

      They are probably going to drag Jon’s resurrection like TWD drags its cliffhangers for ratings, even though GoT doesn’t need that. I’m scared the eventual resurrection will be anticlimatic when they finally decide to get to it. I’m also fearing we won’t get any scenes at the Wall in episode 2 because of this.

      I didn’t expect to see Arya in the premiere, and she could have easily been pushed back to episode 2. I didn’t think her arc was like Jon or Sansa or Jaime’s, where you have to pick up where they left off (if that makes sense).

      I also feel like Tyrion will probably have lots of filler scenes because they want him in every episode, and that will take away screentime from other storylines that need it.

        Quote  Reply

    100. SerNoName,
      Ok, so there are good people. I think the majority are, actually.

      But… ok. Sigh. Let me put it like this. When was the last time while reading/watching for the first time when you were NOT convinced that Jon would be in the endgame, as one of the heroes destined to resolve the situation?

      Having beef with Jon the person is different from having beef with Jon the character. Jon the person is like chicken with potatoes. Sometimes you want wild boar in red wine.

        Quote  Reply

    101. ghost of winterfell,

      But he’s not. He IS compelling and we root for him as he’s one of the last traditionally good guys left. But that doesn’t make him complex though. Brianne isn’t complex either, she’s stubbornly single-minded and as good as good gets. We root for her and she’s compelling, but not complex. Same with Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    102. dothrakian raven:
      mau,

      Well if the dragons are involved I have the impression that they will need to do something more than that.

      I think mau simply means it will not be a full-fledged battle like Blackwater, Castle Black, Hardhome or the forthcoming Battle of the Bastards; instead, we can expect a CGI overview of the armies clashing with a few real shots of Yunkish soldiers being burnt by dragonfire, Dothraki marching on Meereen, etc. I wouldn’t expect a fully realized battle, so soon after the Battle of the Bastards.

        Quote  Reply

    103. BunBunStark: Right? I wanted to believe, LOL. Stupid internet people toying with my emotions. Hmph.

      Lol same here. Those imdb spoilers sounded good (especially Bran and Bloodraven).

        Quote  Reply

    104. Yaga:
      SerNoName,
      . When was the last time while reading/watching for the first time when you were NOT convinced that Jon would be in the endgame, as one of the heroes destined to resolve the situation?

      In the books… when Tarly had to setup his appointment as NW Lord Commander while he himself had already given up. I don´t see him resolving anything at this point in the books atleast.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Luka Nieto,

      I think that Meereen will be under siege for several episodes. But in E10 we will see how Tyrion, with Dany’s help, breaks that siege. I think it won’t take more than 10 minutes of action.

      I also think that the whole Meereen’s storyline won’t end in ashes as many suggested. I think Dany will lleave Missandei and GW to rule in Meereen and in Slaver’s Bay in her name, with the Unsullied.

      Missandei will be learning to rule ifrom Tyrion “You’re in the great game now…”

      That’s the reason why we spend so “much” time with them in S4 and S5. D&D were setting them up as future rulers of Meereen. Who is better to rule in Slaver’s Bay than former slaves?

      In the books, I think there are so many characters who could rule after Dany, but in the show it will be Misandei and GW.

      Also, without the Unsullied Dany won’t seem overpowered after her alliance with Dorne.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Flayed Potatoes: They are probably going to drag Jon’s resurrection like TWD drags its cliffhangers for ratings, even though GoT doesn’t need that. I’m scared the eventual resurrection will be anticlimatic when they finally decide to get to it. I’m also fearing we won’t get any scenes at the Wall in episode 2 because of this.

      I don’t think they’ll do what TWD did (I think TWD really dropped the ball with their fakeout deaths and build ups without conclusions) because, on the whole, GOT is quite good with payoffs and, as I think you and others have previously mentioned, Jon has a lot to do between now and episode 9. GoT doesn’t have enough episodes in a season to drag stuff out for ratings. As for it being anticlimatic, because we know he is coming back, that may take away some of the shock factor, but I have confidence in the writers that it will be well done and Jon’s arc after that will be interesting (then again, I always find Jon’s arc interesting, so that might not be saying a lot).

      However, lowered expectations may make you enjoy the show even more, so who am I to try and budge them. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    107. El-Bobbie,

      Yes but classic is not a synonym to conventional. Classic is something totally different. Typical would be a better word. And yes it is an opinion because the visual material I am acquainted with defies your definition. As I said above and I think ghost of winterfel said it too the fact that Jon is the typical hero or is cast from the typical hero material does not necessarily mean that he is boring and not complex etc…

        Quote  Reply

    108. mau: I think that Meereen will be under siege for several episodes. But in E10 we will see how Tyrion, with Dany’s help, breaks that siege. I think it won’t take more than 10 minutes of action.

      Exactly. 10 minutes at most. I think it will be comparable to Stannis’ surprise attack on the wildlings, or perhaps more appropriately the siege and taking of Meereen in season four. Maybe a bit more elaborate (they have a bigger budget now, after all), but nothing like Blackwater, Castle Black, Hardhome or the Battle of the Bastards.

      mau: I think Dany will lleave Missandei and GW to rule in Meereen and in Slaver’s Bay in her name, with the Unsullied.

      Agreed. I described it like this in my speculative summary of season six:

      Despite the best efforts of Tyrion, Grey Worm, Jorah and Missandei, as well as the fiery intervention of Rhaegal and Viserion in the battlefield, the battle seems lost… until Daenerys returns at last and Drogon and her new khalasar swiftly put an end to the insurrection. Dany doesn’t deal in half-measures anymore: she has the rebellious masters executed (such as Yezzan and Razdal) and puts an end to her rule, as she believes the freedmen must govern themselves and she must go back home and take the Iron Throne. Grey Worm and Missandei, who will lead the ruling council and enforce the abolition of slavery, bid a fond farewell to Dany and promise to do good by her.

      However, I do believe the pyramids of the rebellious masters will burn. So I personally do expect some of Meereen to be ashes.

        Quote  Reply

    109. El-Bobbie:
      Flayed Potatoes,

      I really hope they don’t delay the resurrection past episode 2.

      It’s going to be very obnoxious if that happens. And I’m not saying this as a Stark/Snow fan. They have tons of characters and storylines to look after, so they might as well get the resurrection over with, so we can focus on everything else.

        Quote  Reply

    110. I suppose I’m the only one here who’s glad that the IMDB spoilers are false. They had me worried that the ep would just be a series of events that simply existed to please the fans.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Flayed Potatoes,

      I think that D&D approach to GoT is completely different from the approach TWD’s showrunners have. In every aspect.

      GoThas an actual story to tell and I think there is no reason to panic.

      Bringing back Jon in E1 would be too soon. We need to feel the Wall storyline without him. I think he will come back to life in E2 or E3.

      We have some pictures that suggest that they are leaving CB in E5. So, for that to happen Jon needs to come back to life, deal with his death, meet with a Sansa, create a plan, elect a new LC,.. There are just too many things. He won’t be dead after E3 I’m sure.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Jack Bauer 24: 13 days.

      Oh god. You had to mention this, didn’t you? ? now my good mood is already gone ?

      …off-topic, but am I the only one who doesn’t see the countdown counter when connecting to the website from an Android phone?

        Quote  Reply

    113. Ok I finally watched the video (my mobile is dumb, so the link wasn’t loading). I love the use of practical effects. Some of the effects will age very well (particularly the Northern and Wildling armies, and I think the Blackwater explosion looks good to this day). I didn’t notice any new scenes, except Hodor, Bran and Meera running. I was wondering where Bran’s cart went.

        Quote  Reply

    114. I am so tired of the anti hero type.Yes Jon is a good guy but his story is not boring far from it.I love got because it has so many complex characters there is room for everything.I love characters like Jamie honestly but the story still needs someone like Jon.What’s wrong with liking a good guy?I am not watching the show to be depressed and see all the characters i love die.Yes I have been paying attention and i am realistic and aware of the brutal world they live in but it seems to me these critics and some viewers see the show in such pessimistic and nihilistic view and tbh i don’t think the creators intended it that way

        Quote  Reply

    115. Yaga,

      But can you fault the chicken for not tasting like the wild boar? And if one likes the taste of chicken why would they want to douse it in vinegar?

        Quote  Reply

    116. Flayed Potatoes,

      I don’t see that happening. You see, GoT is actually good, whereas TWD is just repetitive poorly written crap that is more focused on getting a cheap shock than actually telling a story.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Strange thing to show after the premiere. This is from last season, and probably should’ve been shown last season. There are a few writers claiming that a trailer was shown afterwards. Can anyone confirm?

        Quote  Reply

    118. dwm,

      Sadly, I agree. TWD’s first 3 seasons were addicting and awesome. Now? It’s the same garbage every single season. Negan is the new Gov.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Luka Nieto,

      Yes, I understood it. I am just implying that maybe they have the budget to do something off the beaten track, something more than Stannis vs Ramsay and of course less than Hardhome. Something more but less…

        Quote  Reply

    120. YgiTTe,
      Eh. It’s the Big 5 scale again. There are people who rank highly on Openness to Experience, and there are people who don’t. Myself, I rank high, so I’m pretty easily bored with things I’ve already seen – for me, novelty itself is a virtue. So, a straight white well-meaning hero is just boring. Funny thing is, so is a Stannis (white middle-aged male semiantihero, last seen in Breaking Bad, The Shield, Mad Men, Sopranos, Vinyl, Better Call Saul…).

      Like I said previously, my ideal next HBO series would take place in a fantasy equatorial jungle world. And feature cannibalistic wereleopards. I can’t stress this part enough. Cannibalistic wereleopards.

        Quote  Reply

    121. dothrakian raven:
      Luka Nieto,

      Yes, I understood it. I am just implying that maybe they have the budget to do something off the beaten track, something more than Stannis vs Ramsay and of course less than Hardhome. Something more but less…

      Something in between those two extremes, sure 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    122. Yaga: Oh god. You had to mention this, didn’t you? now my good mood is already gone

      …off-topic, but am I the only one who doesn’t see the countdown counter when connecting to the website from an Android phone?

      13 days is good, no? The countdown was at 106 when we started! 93 days have passed and the clock will be in single digits on Friday 🙂

      Btw, the countdown doesn’t show on mobile for me either.

        Quote  Reply

    123. ?????:
      Strange thing to show after the premiere. This is from last season, and probably should’ve been shown last season. There are a few writers claiming that a trailer was shown afterwards. Can anyone confirm?

      What is from last season?

        Quote  Reply

    124. Yaga:
      SerNoName,

      But… ok. Sigh. Let me put it like this. When was the last time while reading/watching for the first time when you were NOT convinced that Jon would be in the endgame, as one of the heroes destined to resolve the situation?

      Sigh, what difference does it make if Jon is an endgame character or one of the heroes? We already know that Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Bran are end game characters destined to play major roles against the Others. We see this in GRRM’s original outline. This is their coming of age story. How they go from being the underdogs to being the people who bring about change.

      Being an endgame hero does not take away from Dany’s story, why should it from Jon’s? Because he is a white man and she is a woman? I find the journey interesting, I find the characters complex. Jon may be a classic hero, but GRRM did not make it any easy on him. As he says :

      Character development and [people] changing is good, and there are some tough things in there that I think a lot of writers skip over. I’m glad I didn’t skip over these things. And that has been interesting, you know. Jon Snow as Lord Commander. Dany as Queen struggling with rule. So many books don’t do that. ”

      He has spend all this time on these characters slowly building them over, and to just dismiss them as not complex because they are don’t murder or rape or because they are heroes/heroines is being disingenuous.

      It comes down to taste. I don’t find Sansa to be all that interesting or complex either. She is touted as being realistic, but I have never come across a 11 yr old girl who is that naive. She starts of as a dumb blond cheerleader type stereotype, a caricature who trusts the lady who orders her pet killed! Which child does that? And then GRRM saddles her with a tired old beauty and the beast story with Sandor Clegane. I find Dany to be more interesting and complex than Sansa even though Dany is also on a classical hero journey.

        Quote  Reply

    125. From the Vanity Fair article:

      While introducing the premiere, series co-creator David Benioff told the audience that the new season “was a beast to make”—the largest undertaking in the show’s history. “We shot 680 hours of dailies, which translates to 3.7 million feet of film. We shot in five different countries—Northern Ireland, Spain, Croatia, Iceland, and Canada.”

      that’s awesome!

      Also, I didn’t know they shot stuff in Canada!

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    126. YgiTTe,

      *Varys voice*: I am not like most fans 🙂

      I am pleased by a well told, consistent, thought through and well written story. Just killing off all the baddies and inserting happy endings here and there for the sake of happiness does not meet all, if any, of those qualifications.

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    127. Well, it looks like the reviewers and actors are keeping their mouths shut about the fate of Jon Snow in the first episode. We will have to wait and see for ourselves…

        Quote  Reply

    128. Green Chili,

      Nice clip. “Welcome home, Khaleesi.”

      He doesn’t seem to be saying Khaleesi though, all I can hear is Khales. Also, is the audio messed up for anyone else? The interviewers voice is only heard on the left channel, the audio of the clip on the right. Anyone got a better version?

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    129. Perhaps Mel’s big twist is

      her real age and how her true appearance is different from what we have seen so far. This reveal can then perhaps set the stage for her changing her appearance to look like Jon Snow – who is really dead – in the next episode, a.k.a “the reveal sets the stage for some powerful sorcery to come”?

      It’s just a speculation, but I have put the spoiler tags anyway. The tags don’t seem to work in preview (?), so please feel free to remove the post if it is considered spoiler-y.
      First time commenting here, this is a wonderful and welcoming community. Reading comments here has become one of my favorite activities!

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    130. Oh-Mel-ey:
      Perhaps Mel’s big twist is

      It’s just a speculation, but I have put the spoiler tags anyway. The tags don’t seem to work in preview (?), so please feel free to remove the post if it is considered spoiler-y.
      First time commenting here, this is a wonderful and welcoming community. Reading comments here has become one of my favorite activities!

      But what would looking like him bring her? Isn’t ‘the power inside him’ the draw, and not simply looking like him?

        Quote  Reply

    131. Jack Bauer 24,

      Don’t think the reddit person is the same person as the one posting on the IMDb board. They have different views on the strength of The Red Woman in comparison to other season openers. But both liked the episode a lot. Both gave somewhat similar details (which I obviously won’t share here… go to the links if you want to read it). Personally, I couldn’t help myself (YAS, I was that little annoying girl always shaking the gifts and guessing what was in them!). If the IMDb poster is legit then it gives a HUGE spoiler… be warned.

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    132. daveyf,

      Great question! Not entirely sure what it would bring her, since we don’t know much about glamour (something Mel has done before) and how similar or different it is compared to changing faces. I do recall reading, in the context of faceless men, that changing faces is not just about changing appearances. You also get thoughts and feelings along with the face, so perhaps something similar might happen with looking like Jon.

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    133. Yaga:

      Okay that helps explain it. I couldn’t say where I’d rank on that scale. I am fairly jaded, but not comfortable with the truly outlandish.

      “I can’t stress this part enough. Cannibalistic wereleopards.

      Lol. So wait, you mean people that turn into wereleopards and eat other wereleopard-turned people? Or actual leopards that turn werewolf at night and eat each other? I’m guessing the 1st one?

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    134. BunBunStark:
      This video isn’t as spoilery as the other 2. As others said, Bran, Meera, Hodor, and Leaf running seems like they will be fleeing the cave.

      Ian White (Wun Wun) is a huge human being even without the added VFX. I see an arrow sticking out of Wun Wun’s back , him banging something or someone against a green screen pole, and him getting up from a tree truck. Wun Wun’s gonna be a busy giant this season.

      George,

      My glass candle tells me mel sacrifices olly

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    135. You know why is that episode 1 stuff is false?

      Because no way Bran and Bloodraven just return and resurrect Jon in ONE episode. There was no hints for that in the books and the series at all.

      That’s why.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Oh-Mel-ey,

      The big twist for her is that she used to kill people with fire and now will be part of bringing life to someone instead of death.

      Its that simple.

        Quote  Reply

    137. richarddecredico:
      Oh-Mel-ey,

      The big twist for her is that she used to kill people with fire and now will be part of bringing life to someone instead of death.

      Its that simple.

      But that’s what everyone is expecting, where’s the twist in that?

        Quote  Reply

    138. Before I could even hit refresh and post a comment ALL the spoilers were debunked. So nothing from IMDb or that reddit post can be trusted, correct? For that matter, nothing on the internet (or at least nothing about the premiere episode) can be trusted, either? How will I ever make it through my sick day? hahah

        Quote  Reply

    139. Another thought: it might not be Mel but someone else who takes Jon’s face. Can there be a faceless man on the wall? Why did they focus so much on faceless men in the promo?

        Quote  Reply

    140. BunBunStark,

      Armies on the March!
      Females forming alliances!
      Declarations of vengeance!
      Sansa taking charge!
      Brienne fulfilling her vow to cheers!
      Jon Snow not rezzed yet, but from the sound of it that is coming too!

      What interested me the most was the cryptic reference to women taking charge “terrifyingly so” in “other regions” Dorne coup anyone?

      Also interested in armies on the March. Could be the Khalasar, but in inclined to think that it’s only an army in the eyes of the critics if they are actually heading to battle. So I’m thinking the Boltons or the Dornish or the Vale.

      Also super stoked at this twist w Mel that apparently is unexpected!

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    141. From the Telegraph article: “Other prominent female characters forging alliances make for a pleasingly feminist flavour to the events……Elsewhere in the Seven Kingdoms, the women are taking control too – in some regions, terrifyingly so.”

      I know this is only review for one episode but, I don’t know George. So many have been killed off now. Could this be a story where all the main men will have died and it’s all about the women in the end? Or could the show go in it’s own direction and decide to do that? If so, many of us never saw that one coming I’m sure.

        Quote  Reply

    142. Name *,

      I’m wondering if the new trailer won’t be out until after the first episode. That would make the wait much harder. It was cool to hear that most of what we have seen is all episode one. Should be an exciting start! Those are my favorite! Apologies to those who like the slow starting premieres.

      And to Arya: I hate that she is going to be an underdog but real Arya fans I think will stick w her.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Ashley,

      Correct. The reviews from EW, the Telegraph and a few others can be trusted, but they don’t say much. As for your third question, I don’t know. How about you buy a puppy and train it to be your personal servant?

        Quote  Reply

    144. kam: First spoiler-free review of the Red Woman:
      http://www.indiewire.com/article/game-of-thrones-season-6-premiere-red-woman-jon-snow-dead-20160410

      Thanks for this review.

      With his death, the show lost its last conventional straight white male protagonist.

      A fraction of this fandom, especially the part that is internet active, love to talk about GRRM’s conventional trope defying writing, but completely loves its conventional, straight, white, male protagonist. So, what now? 😉

        Quote  Reply

    145. Name *,

      Thanks! I just read those interviews (yes, they were *yawn* with the spoilers but the after party sounded entertaining)…. Now, if only I could teach my pups to scour the internet and sift through the internet garbage to find something creditable. That would make my day more entertaining. Oh well… 13 days.

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    146. Probably not important at all but the Bull’s Eye section on the new EW issue has a pic of Rose Leslie and Kit Harington with a caption that reads something like (paraphrasing): Girl, don’t be surprised if he ghosts for 10 months and then comes back to life.

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    147. I imagine that Melisandre gets around to rezzing Jon at the end of episode 1. It’s the initial stage, the preparation and the beginning. And the process will be completed at some point in episode 2.
      That’s how I’d have handled it.

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    148. r-hard:
      You know why is that episode 1 stuff is false?

      Because there is no way Bran and BLoodraven return to resurrect Jon in ONE episode. There’s was no hints of that in the books or series at all.

      That’s why.

      There’s totally hints in S5E10. Listen to the music playing as Jon lies on the ground dying. At firsts it’s a very sad Starky “Farewell my Brother”. Then right at the end it completely changes to a new high pitched sound…the same sound we hear when Bran has his vision after touching the Weirwood. It’s why I’ve always assumed that Bran, BR, Old Magic would resurrect Jon. It’s literally the last thing we see/hear in S5. So I’d say that’s a pretty big hint.

        Quote  Reply

    149. So GRRM did not show. I hope he is typing away and finishing the next book. I will need it to be ready in about 12 weeks or so please.

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    150. mau: I think Dany will lleave Missandei and GW to rule in Meereen and in Slaver’s Bay in her name, with the Unsullied.

      Missandei will be learning to rule ifrom Tyrion “You’re in the great game now…”

      I agree totally with this. GW’s new clothes also point to a more “ruler” type role! 😀

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    151. Oh-Mel-ey: Another thought: it might not be Mel but someone else who takes Jon’s face. Can there be a faceless man on the wall? Why did they focus so much on faceless men in the promo?

      No, but you’re right with someone taking Jon’s looks – Mel will put a glamour on Davos and make him look like Jon Snow so he can unite the North & the Wildlings and lead them to battle. (remember the show didn’t use the Mel glamouring Mance Rayder topic before?).

      It is known.

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    152. phantomstrife:
      Well, it looks like the reviewers and actors are keeping their mouths shut about the fate of Jon Snow in the first episode. We will have to wait and see for ourselves…

      nah. Its just that he comes back in later episodes. Guess between 3-5.

        Quote  Reply

    153. Shadow Baby #2,

      No reason to be angry or rude. I didn’t read the piece, because right now I’m not interested in that type of commentary. But, he is very conventional. He is a hero of unknown origins. Very typical of the medieval and even classical epics. And I imagine that the writer meant that it is traditional (in the history of the western culture) for heros to be straight white males, as compared to recent years, where there is a proliferation of female and gay heroes. Like the Hunger Games and new Star Wars. Though at present no gay heroes come to mind.

      I still think that Jon is a great hero and I hope he doesn’t stay dead. There are plenty of unconventional heroes on this show. It is not typical because it doesn’t focus on one hero–rather there are many and we get plenty of points of view. Pretty postmodern in that way.

        Quote  Reply

    154. YgiTTe: I know this is only review for one episode but, I don’t know George. So many have been killed off now. Could this be a story where all the main men will have died and it’s all about the women in the end? Or could the show go in it’s own direction and decide to do that? If so, many of us never saw that one coming I’m sure.

      Its a story about cripples, bastards and broken things. 😉 (I think)

      Jon might be a more traditional heroic character, but he is still disadvantaged within Westeros. He joined the Nights Watch because he is a bastard, it is difficult to find a place within society for a bastard. The Nights Watch isn’t a pleasure palace, people aren’t lining up to Nights Watch. Most of the other characters still have their titles to fall back on.

      koempel: I think most agree with the general jest of your post, though I think you should not frame Ned’s/Jon’s deaths as a result of ‘being good’. Their demise was the result of short sightedness (maybe because they were out of their depth?). Especially with regards to Jon this has always baffled me (in the books as well). Jon has always been a rather emphatic individual, easily able to see the perspective of others. This is what makes him a natural leader. I do believe he recognised the widespread dissent amongst his fellow watchmen, yet he never addressed it fully. Maybe he didn’t have enough time and events overwhelmed him.

      I might be wrong but I ve always believed that Jon and Ned knew or understood exactly the kind of danger they were in. This is also where I think they might be different from Robb. I dont think Robb really understood the exact danger he was getting himself into.

      Ned and Jon actually understands politics quite well, they just simply dont always approve of the methods used within politics. They both realized and knew they were in mortal danger, but their personalities is such that they would finish what they have started even if it kills them. They walked into their most dangerous positions with their eyes wide open.

      I think you can see this especially with Jon. The story is written though POV’s, as a result most POV’s can be quite one sided, we basically only see what happens at the Wall through Jon perspective.
      And though Jon’s POV we actually gain a good understanding and some empathy for the Nights Watch members who apposes him. I think this illustrates very well how well Jon actually understood his fellow members within the Nights Watch. But he has started on this course, he does have the bigger picture on his mind, he isn’t just going to stray from his course, even if it gets him killed. Jon just sees the task of trying to save the realm as more important then his life.

      I think it is much more difficult to write good character who are really compelling then writing for grey characters. This is something GRRM really excels in, most of his good characters are really compelling.
      You just need to read a bit of fan fiction to completely understand this concept. Most of GRRM’s compelling and good characters, turns into mary-sue’s, or people who constantly worry about every single thing or good characters who makes very dumb and illogical decisions.

        Quote  Reply

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