Game of Thrones’ fifth season leads the board and has been nominated for a whopping 24 emmys! Congratulations to the cast and crew! The 67th primetime annual award show will air September 20th on Fox! Full nomination list under the cut!
Outstanding Drama Series
Outstanding Supporting Actor
Peter Dinklage – Tyrion Lannister
Outstanding Supporting Actress
Lena Headey – Cersei Lannister
Emilia Clarke – Daenerys Targaryen
Outstanding Guest Actress
Diana Rigg – Lady Olenna
Outstanding Writing For A Drama Series
David Benioff and D.B. Weiss – Mother’s Mercy
Outstanding Directing For A Drama Series [2]
David Nutter – Mother’s Mercy
Jeremy Podeswa – Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Outstanding Production Design For A Narrative Contemporary Or Fantasy
Program (One Hour Or More) [3]
High Sparrow, Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken, and Hardhome
Deborah Riley, Production Designer
Paul Ghirardani, Art Director
Rob Cameron, Set Decorator
Outstanding Casting For A Drama Series
Nina Gold, CSA, Casting Director
Robert Sterne, Casting Director
Carla Stronge, Casting Director
Outstanding Cinematography For A Single-Camera Series [4]
Hardhome
Fabian Wagner, BSC, Director of Photography
Sons Of The Harpy
Anette Haellmigk, Director of Photography
The Dance Of Dragons
Rob McLachlan, ASC, CSC, Director of Photography
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
Greg Middleton, CSC, Director of Photography
Outstanding Costumes For A Period/Fantasy Series, Limited Series Or Movie
The Dance Of Dragons
Michele Clapton, Costume Designer
Outstanding Single-Camera Picture Editing For A Drama Series [2]
Hardhome
Tim Porter, Editor
The Dance Of Dragons
Katie Weiland, Editor
Outstanding Hairstyling For A Single-Camera Series
Mother’s Mercy
Kevin Alexander, Department Head Hairstylist
Candice Banks, Department Head Hairstylist
Rosalia Culora, Hairstylist
Gary Machin, Hairstylist
Laura Pollock, Hairstylist
Nicola Mount, Hairstylist
Outstanding Makeup For A Single-Camera Series (Non-Prosthetic)
Mother’s Mercy
Jane Walker, Department Head Makeup Artist
Nicola Matthews, Makeup Artist
Outstanding Prosthetic Makeup For A Series, Limited Series, Movie Or A Special
Hardhome
Jane Walker, Department Head Makeup Artist
Barrie Gower, Special Makeup Effects Department Head
Sarah Gower, Special Makeup Effects Assistant
Department Head
Outstanding Sound Editing For A Series
Hardhome
Tim Kimmel, Supervising Sound Editor
Paula Fairfield, Sound Designer
Bradley C. Katona, Sound Effects Editor
Peter Bercovitch, Supervising Dialogue Editor
David Klotz, Music Editor
Jeffrey Wilhoit, Foley Artist
Dylan T. Wilhoit, Foley Artist
Outstanding Sound Mixing For A Comedy Or Drama Series (One Hour)
Hardhome
Ronan Hill, C.A.S., Production Mixer
Richard Dyer, Production Mixer
Onnalee Blank, C.A.S., Re-Recording Mixer
Mathew Waters, Re-Recording Mixer
Outstanding Special Visual Effects
The Dance Of Dragons
Steve Kullback, Visual Effects Producer
Joe Bauer, Visual Effects Supervisor
Adam Chazen, Visual Effects Associate Producer
Jabbar Raisani, Visual Effects Plate Supervisor
Eric Carney, Visual Effects Previs Lead
Stuart Brisdon, Special Effects Supervisor
Derek Spears, Lead CG Supervisor
James Kinnings, Lead Animator
Matthew Rouleau, CG Supervisor
Outstanding Stunt Coordination For A Drama Series, Limited Series Or Movie
Rowley Irlam, Stunt Coordinator
We’re exceptionally proud of the cast and crew as their hard work has certainly paid off! Will you be tuning in to the award show? What do you think of the nominations? Let us know in the comments below!
Fantastic News!. I’d switch Hardhome Direction for U, U, U, but very happy with everything else.
I’d love to know who and which episodes were submitted by HBO in what categories. Podeswa’s nom is baffling, especially since Sapochnik did a much better job on Hardhome and even Podeswa’s own “Kill The Boy” was a better episode. Curious. And I’m always curious if HBO submits Maisie, Sophie, Ian, Conleth, and Aidan. I seem to recall they submitted Maisie last year, but she always seems to get overlooked, and, frankly, I think she’s the best actor on the show.
Why is “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” – the infamous ‘Sand Snake’ episode … the lowest rated episode in the entire series – nominated for Best Direction?
And its like they always nominate the same actors, like EC, she did ok this season but seriously she wasnt outstanding, its kind of sad that other actors that showed much better performances this season, like Alfie Allen for example dont get a recognitions…
Unbowed, unbent, unbroken – that is us fans every year after the Emmys. Congrats to all (esp Nina Gold)!
Lena Heady for all the wins! This nomination pleases me above all others. Of course it’s all good and I’m surprised at the number of nominations this year. Bravo!
I find it shocking that “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” received the nomination over “Hardhome.” But, I am happy for all the other nominations especially Lena’s.
Nice to see so many nominations but a couple of the acting ones are odd. I barely remember lady olenna having any scenes bar the nice one with the high sparrow. Perhaps one scene is all it takes… But then that feels odd.
Kit Harrington deserved a nod I reckon (over emilia Clarke who was solid) and certainly stephen dillane.
Not that this wasn’t already clear (and it’s quite a common Emmy phenomenon), but Dinklage getting nominated for this season proves that no other male actor will ever be nominated for this show; they’ll just keep renominating Dinklage automatically. He is, of course, a great actor, but he had nothing interesting to do this season.
Headey’s nomination is one I’ve been predicting for years, given the prominence of her arc in the books that correspond. Her being nominated last year clinched that.
Clarke’s nomination is the biggest surprise of the bunch.
Wow at all the cinematography nominations. If they lose that it will obviously be because of vote-splitting.
Must say , although they were solid, I don’t think any of the performances this season deserve an Emmy win. Lena comes closest but other than the Walk of Shame ( which I think with part of it being done by Miss Van Cleave will hit her chances) everything else was good but not spectacular.
Diana Rigg was solid and Olenna works in small doses but is lacking depth.
Personally thought that Johnathon Price was the standout performer this season. All of his scenes were mesmerising and he managed to pull of being both softly-spoke and caring but also carrying an unerving side of a religious fanatic. His conversation with Olenna was one of my highlights of the season.
Alfie, Sophie and Stephen Dillane were all very good and I think more deserving than Emilia and The Dink this season.
In general , I do hope that GoT returns more to the incredible verbal jousts of previous seasons and doesn’t pile on as much action. They were lacking last season and I think the show dipped in quality slightly because of it.
I expect Hardhome to,quite rightly, clear up in most of it’s categories.
Too bad Pryce wasn’t nominated, I thought for sure he would.
Pleasantly surprised Clarke was nominated. She was great this year, especially in 502.
Not surprised Kit didn’t get nominated, but I do think be had one of the stronger performances of the season, and I would have put him in instead of others like Jim Carter for example.
I think both writing and directing nods should have gone elsewhere. Podwesa’s great but that Sand Snake scene was really just not well directed. And there were a couple bits in Mother’s Mercy that I don’t think were framed well – namely the Sansa-Myranda-Theon confrontation. Meanwhile, the incredible Hardhome sequence is ignored…kind of nuts to me.
I also felt like the writing was better in other episodes. Personally would have picked “The Gift,” so many great dialogues in that episode.
Haha everyone’s least favorite episode is nominated for best direction. ***OUTRAGE***
Lena Headey!
Ravyn,
HBO started submitting Sophie and Maisie last year; they were submitted again this year, and presumably will be again in the future, but they won’t be nominated. They’re too young and by now the show has an established nomination hierarchy in that category (meaning that Headey and Clarke, as previous nominees and much more-promoted adult stars, will always be the defaults).
Too bad that they’re only nominating the popular actors. The only deserved acting nomination was Lena Headey (and I think there’s a fairly big chance she might win, too). I’d pick Stephen Dillane or Alfie Allen over Dinklage any day, and Diana Rigg didn’t really do anything of importance this season.
Congrats to the cast and crew!
Sadly Kit Harington isn’t nominated. He would have deserved it for his absulotely great acting this season (Hardhome!!!)
Lena Headey, Stephen Dillane, Maisie Williams and Kit Harrington were the only ‘main’ cast who truly deserves nominations this year (and I have never been Kit’s biggest fan). The others weren’t bad, but didn’t do enough or the writing didn’t help them
I cant remember I single standout scene from Emilia Clarke. Im not saying she is bad (she is the weakest of the main cast though IMO) but she didn’t do anything special. Maisie Williams should have been nominated ahead of her. She had several stand out scenes including the scene where she keeps needle, the scene with the young girl and the scene where she kills Meryn. I cant think of a single one from Emilia
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken nominated for best directing?
Ok…
How on earth is Hardhome not nominated? Feature films win awards that were not nearly directed as well!
Wtf….Hardhome was the best direction!
Why Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken received ANY nominations. It was awful in ever respect. Bad story telling, terrible action scenes, pacing, characterisation, directing.
Good news for Hardhome. Everything well deserved.
Great for Lena too.
Would have put Kit Harington, Jonathan Price & Stephen Dillane well ahead of Peter Dinklage this season, but hey!
glad to see so many nominations.
Lena was truly amazing this year. Peter too, just an amazing actor trough and trough
Emilia was also outstanding this year. much batter then last year, altough i think her a very good actor unlike some people here. loved her scenes with jorah and also her few scenes with selmy and dario really brought a nice human side too Dany, wich i think was much needed.
wont comment the others, i’m not a critic and i now little of directing. but i most say that besides the sand snake fight, i for one tought EP. 6 was very well shot
Pryce wasn’t submitted by HBO because of new Emmy eligilibity rule this year.
”A “Guest Actor” is now defined as a performer appearing in less than 50% of the program’s episodes. Only performers that fit this criteria will be allowed to submit.”
Pryce unfortunately appeared in exactly 5 episodes so he wasn’t eligible for Guest and his role is too minor for the Supporting Category.
Here were HBO’s submissions this year;
Supporting Actor
-Peter Dinklage
-Kit Harington
-Nikolaj Coster-Waldau
Supporting Actress
-Lena Headey
-Emilia Clarke
-Sophie Turner
-Maisie Williams
In addition to this, Natalie Dormer and Carice van Houten submitted themselves.
Guest Actress
Diana Rigg
Directing
-Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken
-Hardhome
-Mother’s Mercy
Writing
-Mother’s Mercy
Remember, one writer or director can only submit one episode for consideration in one year for themselves.
You can look up to all the submissions in here; http://www.emmys.com/ballots/2015
(Just click the category you want press CTRL+F and write the name you want to search )
Really pissed off that Dillane is not nominated. And, although “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” is the weakest episode due to the script, I think that it was one of the best directed. The wedding scene is amazing. The only problem I see is the tedious fighting scene between Jaime and the Sand Snakes.
Emmy 2015,
ah! so hardhome was submited bot not nominated, nice to know.
also i really enjoy natalie, but i don’t think she had enough material for a emmy.
damn sad to hear that about Pryce he was absolutely amazing.
HBO and GoT did great with 24 Emmy nods!
If I could, I would give GoT a lot more than 24 nods. There are just so many deserving cast and crew on this show. Especially Kit!
I am having fun reading the outrage many ASoIaF fans feel over these nominations too. 😀 Why aren’t the Emmy nominating committee exactly of the same mind-set as many (mostly book-reading), very highly opinionated fans? 😀
I agree. The 502 execution scene is very, very difficult to watch for me, actually even more difficult than Shireen’s death, esp. as Mossador is begging quietly for his life, with “Mhysa.” She was quite subtle in that scene. She also brought a wide range of emotions to all her scenes this season.
I also confess that on my rewatches of the season, EVERY Tyrion scene is complete gold. They are riveting! So, well-deserved Peter D!
Walter Harrow,
I can think of many scenes like the ones with Jorah and Tyrion. Also her grieving over Barristan and her being badass when she scared Hizdahr. I am happy for her and she deserves the nomination.
Happy for Emilia and Lena. Now I hope one of them wins!
Staggis,
i agree on the directing part, most people tend to judge by the story. but besides the fight, i for one think it was a very good episode.
disagree on the part that it was poorly writen but i won’t go there as it is off-topic
I honestly don’t understand the nominations, Peter Dinklage even when he just do nothing…Peter is nominated every year. I trully love his Tyrion but come on.. it’s like no other male actor can act in the series. Nikolaj Coster Waldau was amazing in season 3, Stephen Dillane is a great actor and Kit is really good in the last seasons. Iain Glen or Liam Cunningham should be noticed too. How Peter is every year better than them…is hard to understand…
Lena Headey’s nomination is well deserved and expected, but Emilia’s… this is her second nomination and i feel like they don’t even watch the same series as me. Other actresses are also doing a great job and way better than her.. i.m.o..
If they feel they “have to” nominate someone because of the series popularity i understand this, but they should watch some episodes first.
Congratulations to all the nominees. Fingers crossed again for Nina Gold.
Was Ramin Djawadi nominated this year?
The voters probably took one look at the sequence and automatically thought it was for The Walking Dead, so they ignored it. Zombies, you know.
Plus, Hardhome didn’t have any hot, incompetent women. They win the nom every time.
And I would stop hoping that Kit, Maisie, Alfie, Nikolaj or any other actors get nominated eventually. The first rule of Lazy Award Voting is to select a token actor/actress and nominate that one to death, even when it’s obvious somebody else in the cast was more prominent that year. The Peter/Lena/Emilia noms is just business as usual.
And off-topic congratulations to Best Actress nominees Taraji P. Henson, Viola Davis and Tatiana Maslany. I guess those clones couldn’t be ignored anymore, finally!
I’m very happy for Emilia! I wish Kit would have gotten a nomination too, though, he really deserved it this year.
Also puzzled Harhome didnt get the direction nom, but I guess the appreciate character direction more than full battle sequences (the emhasis on which is probably the reason thrones has been neglected in the past). Many critical, I feel, dont take the show as serious as other dramas because of the fantasy element. So now, when they are forced to regognize the show due to seasons and seasons of succes, they award the drama and character interactions, not the choreography and high scale epicness. Still, I am glad they acknowledged Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. Sansas whole wedding sequence and the trial of the faith were all flawlessly directed, espicially the trial, in which 5 seasons of hipocrisy was finally challenged, and everyone played their part so well (Finn jones’ best performance in the show). Aryas storyline was also really Well handled. That episode is still among the shows best in my book, despite the weird dorne scene (which i dont as much a problem with as everybody Else)
Such weird choices for the nominations. I think they are lazy choices. The finale, Dinklage, Clarke….. It should be The Gift, Dillane, someone else (i dont dislike Emilia as an actress as some other people, but she did not had any memorable scene, even Rosabell would deserve the nomination more, that prison striptease was quite memorable and well acted….and not so akward as Dany/Dario scenes)
I dont have much problem with UUU episode, the fight scene was bad but rest of the episode was directed very well as was the other Podeswa´s episode. The lazy writing with no substance was the real problem of Dorne, not directing or acting.
I’m so thrilled for Lena! I was going to flip if they ignored her again. I think this has definitely been her year.
I cannot figure out how Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken got nominated over Hardhome, but there are lots of things that make no sense to me with the noms.
Damphairintheshowplease!,
very well put! mostly my toughts as well.
i for one think UUU was very good ep. what most people will yell at is the sansa rape…..
….wich they will stop once harry marries her in WoW and he does most or less the same
Excuse me while I scream and shot and flip shit!!
Sean C.,
I’m OK with Dinks being the default non: to millions of casual viewers, he IS Game of Thrones
Maria,
I agree that Dillane and Glen were great this year but HBO didn’t even submit them. It’s very political: they’re keeping their main actors happy.
Ravyn,
not without reason tough, he is an outstanding actor
Emmy 2015,
Thanks for this. I used to do the submission reels for a big TV company and this reminds me how crazy the Emmy rules are and how political the whole submission process is.
Happy for Lena and Emilia.
I think Emilia did fantastic this season. Her acting can be incredibly subtle, and in heavy scenes, like the beheading or seeing Jorah again, it’s fantastic.
Im just so happy to see Emilia and Lena both nominated!
I can’t wipe the smile off my face!
Emilia should submit House of Black and White. She was amazing in that episode.
Lena obviously Mother’s Mercy. Or maybe even The Gift.
Dinklage – Um…. Thats a hard one.
Rigg – Unbent Unbowed Unbroken
Hope Lena wins!!!!
Echoesinawell,
Hahahahaha!
El-Bobby,
yes her acting can be very subtle, but it’s a joy to wach her tough
IT would be nice if the actors won something but i doubt it.
Peter really does not deserve to win this year, Emilia too.
Lena would be a slam dunk for a winner if not for the stunt double during the “walk”.
So, the episodes featuring the Sand Snake fight scene (yes, I know the fault for that was due to poor stunt coordination and a rushed shooting schedule, not the director) and “You want the good girl, but you need the bad pussy” were nominated for Best Directing and Writing, respectively. Way to go, Emmy voters; way to go. I’m hardly what you would call a book purist, and was pleased overall with Season 5 as a whole, but those two moments rank among the worst that this show has ever produced.
All that being said, congratulations to all of the nominees this year. I hate to be an eternal pessimist, but I truly don’t expect this year to be any different than previous years when it comes to wins outside of the technical categories (which this show should dominate- it’s operating on a level far above most TV shows in that respect). The only win I think it MIGHT get in the major categories is Dinklage for Best Supporting Actor- and that’s purely because he’s the only previous winner in that category (the Emmys are kind of like the Mafia- once you’re a made man, you’re basically untouchable). Honestly, I could think of about 10 other actors in this season who were more worthy of Emmy nominations based on their work than Dink, Emilia Clarke and Diana Rigg.
In regards to the nomination of EP6 U,U,U… I personally think it is well deserved… I have to watch it again I don’t remember paying much attention to the SS fight in terms of what every body was calling terrible… However I thought some of the scenes in that episode were excellently shot including:
– Bravos and the Hall of Faces
– Jorah and Tyrion scene
– Olenna’s Return, Marg arrest
– The winter wedding and the wedding night (excellently shot).
As for the other noms, I don’t think Peter did much this year, to be honest, Kit and Stephane deserve it more. Congrats to Lena and Emilia.
I hope WE win every nom 😉
Edit: I am not saying that UUU deserves more than Hardhomme or the Gift… BUT I am arguing why it is deserving of the nom.
Ross,
Stephen Dillane didn’t submit himself for an Emmy.
Ravyn,
The actors submit themselves. Iain submitted himself for The Red Tent.
Miguel didn’t get nominated for Hardhome?
Shame! Shame! Shame! *rings bell*
Wow, these nominations are a joke. How in the hell did “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken” get nominated for best direction? Are you kidding me! That’s the episode the featured the Sand Snake fight right? jfc
Emilia Clarke and Peter Dinklage once again nominated due to their popularity smh.
Congratulations to all of the nominees for their spectacular work on Season 5! 24 nominations is an incredible haul. Every year, Game of Thrones gains more recognition and respect within the industry. I’m particularly happy with that the show got four acting nominations – their most ever! I had hoped that Kit Harington might sneak into the Supporting Actor category, but only at the expense of someone from another show. Season 5 may not have been Tyrion’s best season, but I will never begrudge Peter Dinklage his annual nod.
David Benioff and Dan Weiss pick up their third consecutive nomination for writing – well deserved! I’m also very impressed that the show secured four of the seven nomination slots for Cinematography in a Single-Camera Series. Cinematography is my favorite below-the-line technical category, so I’m very pleased to see Game of Thrones recognized there.
Miguel Sapochnik missing out on a Directing nod is a shame. I suspect it may have something to do with Jeremy Podeswa and David Nutter being more familiar to Academy voters (both of them have been nominated for Emmys before, and Nutter won for “Band of Brothers”). That being said, while the work that Sapochnik did on “Hardhome” was clearly the standout directorial achievement of Season 5, I do think both Podeswa and Nutter are worthy nominees as well. For as much criticisim as the The wedding scene in Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken received, I thought it was extremely well-directed – especially all of the scenes in the Godswood. I still do.
I think that Lena Headey has a real chance to win the Supporting Actress category this year if she chooses “Mother’s Mercy” as her submission episode. I also think that Game of Thrones has perhaps the best chance to win Outstanding Drama Series that it’s ever had.
Keep in mind that the process of selecting the winners at the Emmys was changed within the past year. It used to be that the nominations were determined by all members of the branch in question, but winners were chosen by a select judging panel that would watch episodes from each of the nominated series and then vote. Now, any Academy member who voted in the nomination round is able to participate in the final round of voting to determine the winner.
In other words, the pool of people voting for Outstanding Drama Series this year is going to be much larger than in previous years. With Game of Thrones leading the nominations yet again, it’s clear that it enjoys broad support across all branches of the TV Academy. Under the new system, that widespread appeal could work to its advantage and help it finally win the big category – especially since there’s no returning champion or overwhelming frontrunner in the field this year.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Pryce didn’t submit himself for Thrones, only for Wolf Hall.
Here’s an interview with Lena
http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2015/07/16/emmy-nominations-game-of-thrones-star-lena-headey-on-cerseis-toughest-moments/
Yeah…
Looking back Hardhome was IMO the most amazing episode of season 5 by far.
LOL… I watch this YouTube video still, to this day… IDK it just makes me smile uncontrollably…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODNc4LX5cac
And my whole family’s reaction after Hardhome was basically like… THIS IS WHY WE WATCH GOT!!! What other TV show can deliver something so epic?
Sean C.,
True. If GoT is only going to get one supporting male nom a year, then NCW certainly deserved it in season three and Kit or possibly Stephen Dillane deserved it this year.
Thrilled for Emilia and Lena the most. They are my favorites and I hope one of them can win this year. I don’t mind whom 😀
Oh no, no Kit or Iain 🙁 Well therefore Emilia has been nominated which I approve very much! Also Peter and Lena, congrats to all of them!
Sam,
Alfie Allen didn’t submit himself, sadly.
Besides the obvious misses for Dillane, Harington, Glen, and Allen, I wouldn’t have minded seeing Kristofer Hivju, Ciaran Hinds, and oh yes, KERRY INGRAM, DAMMIT.
I still can’t belive that Sapochnik didn’t get the nod after successfully directing all of those wights. They must have been incredibly difficult to control!
No Karsi?
I guess it just goes to show how many great actors and actresses there are on GOT.
I can’t believe Emilia and Peter were nominated again, it just goes to show you how much of a joke these award ceremonies have become. Nothing but popularity contests for the company to rub shoulders with celebs. I can think of multiple actresses and actors out there who were far more deserving of a nomination than those two.
Lena’s nomination is well deserved though. Walk of Shame aside I thought she was great during the whole season.
Al Swearengen,
I thought this was one of if not the best season Emilia has had actingwise. She had some great scenes. The execution, reaching out for Drogon, watching the fight between slaves, talking with Tyrion, watching the tournament, to name a few.
GoT will win 6 tech awards. Thats it.
Chris,
seriously, the No this or that can go on allllllllllllllllllllll year! LOL
Wow just wow congrats to every single one of them i’m utterly proud BUT BUT BUT i’m having truly a hard time believing that first: sapochnik’s work on hardhome is ignored by them that is by far the greatest quality of TV ever seen, second: why in the god’s name sophie and maisie are always ignored i mean i’m glad for emilia but COME ON those two were far better in both season 4&5 than emilia.
Side notes :
i’m really glad for jeremy podeswa also probably he should have been nominated for his work on Kill the boy but i believe that the wedding scene in godswood ( definitely among 5 best in this season and one of the strongest in whole series IMO) won this nomination for him.
About Peter well i must say i’m somehow annoyed by this particular trend in which it seems that they only see him among the cast and not the others.
And finally with Breaking Bad finished i honestly can’t see any real competition ( even BB wasn’t anywhere near GOT ) so we’ll see.
Daughter of Winter,
BB has been done for two years now, who was it that took all the wins last year?
EDIT: the show finished in 2014 and the noms happened for EMMY 2014. My bad!
Chris,
I haven’t been impressed with Emilia’s work on this show since S3. She’s gotten worse as an actress over the past couple years.
Nothing she did this season was better than Sophie Turner’s performance.
Emilia’s nomination is a slap in the face to actresses everywhere. Her personality and looks garnered her that nomination, not her acting ability.
Cersei’s Wine Goblet,
Fair play. To be honest , he’s probably got a better chance with that as although I enjoy them both, the acting in Wolf Hall is far beyond what it has been in this season of Game of Thrones which isn’t a knock on GoT more of high praise for Wolf Hall.
I think if anything this hammers hoome just how pointless awards ceremonies are!
Well, it could be worse about always getting snuffed at the Emmys.
I love Vikings and they have some great episodes and actors as well but that show hardly ever gets noticed. What’s up with that?
Wow that’s awesome! I do think Alfie Allen should have received a nod. But yay go Lena, Emilia, Diana, and Peter!! Lena stole that season. I’m re-watching it all this week and I still love Olenna’s line “Don’t spar with me little man!” Good stuff.
I’ve had some issues with Dany as a character in the past, but I never thought Emilia herself was bad in the role. I don’t understand all the hate she gets from some people.
Really, Nina Gold and crew pick good actors 99% of the time. There are only a handful of characters I thought were genuinely miscast.
Great to hear about Podeswa! A fellow Torontonian btw. It’s true that Kill the Boy was a better ep. than 506, but there was nothing in it as assuredly-directed or atmospheric as the HOBAW and WF scenes in Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. So I’m happy with him getting nominated for that episode, despite all of that.
On the acting front, of the submitted names I’d have preferred to see Sophie and Kit get the noms over Peter and Emilia but it’s to be expected, I guess. Of the names that weren’t submitted people are right to mention Dillane and Iain Glen’s great work this season. It is great of course that Lena’s got the nomination though and I think she stands a pretty good chance at it!
Wow…
This really puts into perspective just how dominate HBO is over other revival networks.
http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/emmy-nomination-scorecard-game-of-thrones-hbo-lead-1201541651/#networktype-1/page-1
Well, Hardhome, Alfie Allen, Kit Harrington, Jonathan Pryce, Birgitte Hjort Sorensen (if that’s not a great guest star performance…) deserved more recognition.
(Yeah, I know, guest star performances need more well known names.)
But congrats all!
I agree that “Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken”‘s nomination is almost laughable. And while Emilia seems like a very nice woman, her performance was by no means Emmy-worthy.
The more I think about which performances this season were the strongest, the more I’m starting to believe that Iain Glen’s portrayal tops the rest. He played a broken, dying man dealing with pain and desperation while trying to keep it hidden under a cool exterior brilliantly, and his scenes with Peter Dinklage further prove how strong his performance was.
I find it ironic that Natalie and Carice nominated themselves, since I think their performances were two of the best in the women’s category. Daenerys is often pegged as the “tough, strong female,” but I think Carice’s portrayed Melisandre as a much more dynamic woman than Emilia did.
Dillane is one of the very best actors alive, and should have at least been submitted.
1. Was hoping for a Sophie nom. finally this year (nothing again Lena or Emilia, both of whom i like). Was also hoping for Kit to squeak in there.
Was also hoping for the Karsi actress as guest actress (too much to hope for i guess?) She is still one of my fav. parts of the whole season 😀
I guess, if you wanted to get all conspiracy theory about it (which I always very much do), the UUU nomination over Hardhome – or even Kill the Boy – was because they know it’s been slated as the worst episode, and now they’re purposefully trying to reinvent it in a more positive light, which protects the show’s credibility overall.
Meanwhile, regarding Alfie Allen’s depressing lack of nomination, I understand that you have to submit yourself and that he didn’t do that, but look at it this way: regardless of how well people think an actor has done, no one is going to have the gall to submit themselves alongside Clarke/Dinklage/etc as one of the main supporting actors when they themselves got 10 minutes of screen time this year.
I know it was a difficult season, adaptation-wise, and they also wanted to make sure Sophie Turner had something to do, but I still maintain that they should have given him his rightful focus this time, seeing as how Turner did pretty well for screen time last year whilst Allen appeared in just 3 episodes.
UUU for best direction? Curious…but that water garden goofiness? Really?
Who would have expected that the actual UUU relevance in the episode was less associated with Dorne than Sansa’s episode-ending atrocity. But a directing nod? I would have thought “writing” would be a better choice for that episode. Adapted rape gets noticed.
Regardless, congrats to all GoT folk nominated!
I don’t understand the Emmy nominations. Or rather, politicses make me sad. Stephen Dillane should’ve been submitted instead of Nicolaj Caster-Waldau. Iain Glen instead of Peter Dinklage. And Emilia for default nomination submission gets old, too. And Diana Rigg for best guest?! She’s an awesome lady, sure, but the one ‘guest’ I’ll remember this season is Karsi the wildling chieftainess…Birgitte Hjort Sorensen should’ve gotten that one.
Atleast Lena got her nomination. And some of the people who worked on Hardhome. And a lot of cinematography people 🙂
Actually, it doesn’t surprise me Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken is nominated. No, the fight scene wasn’t very good, but it seems like the main objection to that episode is the Sansa scene at the end. That scene, which so many people hate, was actually brilliantly done in terms of filmmaking. There was no nudity shown, there was very little violence shown, and yet the scene was profoundly effective. By focusing on Theon’s face, but not showing the actual deed, the audience was drawn into the scene, making them more than just a passive viewer, plus what actually transpired was left to the imagination. I don’t want to watch that scene, again, and not because I’m so attached to Sansa, but because it was so disturbing. I’ve seen plenty of graphic rapes depicted, and while, yes, they were horrible to watch, they didn’t get to me in the same way. The reason the Sansa scene got to me the way it did is because of how it was filmed.
Cinematopgraphy was especially great this season. And I am happy for Emilia since she gets so much criticism.
Kyrenna,
Dillane and Allen did not submit themselves for example, it is the actors own choice if they submit or not.
Pleased with the recognition, of course but the actual nominations in my opinion are a bit strange.
Hardhome deserves recognition for its direction. Kit Harrington and Alfie Allen did a much better job than Peter Dinklage this year, if I’m honest.
I agree with Maisie Williams being a strong actress but sadly she was a minor part of this fifth season, needless to say screentime shouldn’t judge acting credit but if she had the screentime Headey or Clarke had, I would have more of an issue of her not being nominated. Just glad Headey is.
Hardhome better win the editing nomination. THANKFULLY, that was submitted. I edit in my spare time (in college learning to do it), and editing normal sequences can be challenging but a fight scene like that, which is by far the toughest fight sequence they’ve done on the show to edit deserves its credit.
Everyone needs to relax!
We will all get a chance to set records straight when the WotW fan based voting is held!
We all know that even though no TV camera’s or trophies will be handed out, these fan based voting awards hold more weight with those in “the know”. =)
We can vote for that female wildling woman as best guest and all the other actors like Dillane, Harington, Glen, and Allen.
Emmy’s are all about ratings, so they want the stars of the show to come grab their award in front of the TV cameras wearing their super glamorous outfits and give a thank you speech.
When will that be?
Outstanding Hype for a Confirmed Future Scene: Cleganebowl
mau,
Ask Sue, all I know is we have a huge fan based, fan voting award show hosted every year for each season that lasts for a few weeks on this site.
Usually Game of Owns has a special podcast announcing all the results.
Just saying, Emmys are fun and great but IMO these fan based awards held by WotW usually give more credit where credit is due…
Oh yeah, there are even more categories, like best fight scene, best death, all kinds of cool little categories thrown in.
All I know is that I find it ridiculous that Downton Abbey continues to be nominated with all the great TV out there
Arthur,
Fan based voting that is, can’t wait for it.
And that is the main reason why I care about the Emmy’s at all. It’s not that important whether or not person A deserves award A or B more than person B. Emmy nominations and wins create buzz and standing for the show and that’s good, let’s hope GoT wins a bunch of them.
Quick question: has Nikolaj ever actually been nominated? He should’ve won a damn Emmy just for his scene with Brienne in Kissed by Fire (which is also one of the show’s finest episodes IMHO).
Arthur,
Well, of course, we are fan site. Emmy nominations don’t recognize everything that is good in this show. Or any other show.
GoT has so many great actors, and for me, every nomination is nomination for a show, as a whole.
Rat Kook,
Oh they GAVE Sophie Turner something to do A LOT actually i can’t wait for an arc by arc discussion of season 5 there is so much to talk about sansa’s storyline this season people simply missed so many of it and about sophie’s performance well she and maisie were fantastic from the beginning.
Robb Snow,
He was incredible in the first 3 seasons. He’s been very good with the scraps he’s been given in the last two. Here’s hoping they really give him something to get his teeth into in the last two seasons.
Dragons125,
Me too my friend she nailed every scene well she always does IMO
Robb Snow,
NCW truly deserves more attention. He’s a solid actor despite some bad material this past season, and his scenes with Jerome and Nell were definitely up to snuff. That look when he saw Tarth! 🙂
Given that they separate male and female performances, Harrington would have had to get the nod over Dinklage or over another male actor.
In general, the opposite is usually the case: what fans think is well-done is pretty random with respect to (or even opposite of) what critics, the academies (such as the ATAS or the AMPAS) and the general viewing audience thinks.
That is very untrue. Now, the Emmys are not quite the Oscars where commercial success sometimes seems to be held against a film: but the Emmys frequently nominate shows with pretty low viewership; in fact, Emmy nominations have kept some shows with low-ratings from getting cancelled! (I remember Tina Fey thanking her dozens and dozens of viewers after an Emmy nomination or perhaps even award for 30 Rock!)
What makes Thrones stand out is that the ATAS, like the AMPAS, has a definite bias against anything “fantastic.” Basically, ATAS members tend to view fantasy elements as one (or five or six) steps below gratuitous sex scenes in terms of cheap and unimaginative ways to attract viewers. However, Thrones has done so well at developing “real” characters in unreal circumstances that (quite amazingly) the academy members treat it like dramas set in a much more “real” world.
God it’s always the same ‘darling’ actors who get nominated, while other supporting characters, who aren’t considered the “CORE” characters, are over-looked.
Why the FUCK isn’t Stephen Dillane nominated? He was miles better than Dinklage this season, MILES. Same with Conleth Hill… And Ian Glen… And Michael McEatton (SP?)… And Roose Bolton… Always passed over in favour of the favourite child Peter. And as for Clarke… jesus. She was okay, certainly not emmy worthy come on. I don’t particularly rate Sophie Turner, but she was definitely better than her.
Lena did a good job though, and I respect her nomination.
I’m not even gonna get started on UUU being nominated over Hardhome… fucking usless Sand Snakes. Jesus that is C grade TV in an A+ Grade show.
PS: CONGRATULATIONS GOT FOR YOUR NOMINATIONS!!!!!!! Well deserved!
Guest performances, almost by definition, do not get “depth.” This is a category for small but stand-out performances, where it is thought that a character (and the actor/actress behind the character) creates an impact despite being sufficiently tertiary to the story and/or plots that they don’t have much depth.
If a role gets any depth, then it is basically a supporting or lead role. It would have been absurd for Rigg to get a supporting actress nomination: but she didn’t, so we need not complain!
One thing that the huge multi-protagonist format of Thrones does do is “water-down” the screen-time for leads to the screen time of supporting characters. Strictly speaking, protagonists should be considered for lead nominations, and secondary characters should be considered for supporting nominations. However, no other TV show of note has so many protagonists, and thus no other show has the lead characters get so little screen time. For example, the Big Three between them get the relative screen time of Don Draper in Madmen: but Draper is the only principle protagonist of Madmen whereas Thrones has three. Similarly, the 2nd-tier protagonists from Thrones (Arya, Sansa, Bran) probably get the relative screentime of Peggy Olson in Madmen: but, again, divided among three characters. Of course, the books are much the same: if you reduced any one book even to one of the “big three,” you basically would have a novella, not a novel. GRRM actually did that with Daeny’s Thrones chapters, if I recall. Of course, if you condensed Jon’s, Daeny’s or Tyrion’s material from Thrones, Clash, Swords and Dragons individually, then you would have one single-protagonist novel each, albeit with a very inconsistent story, and no ending in sight!
That’s absolutely not true. Until very recently, almost every Oscar winner was among the top 10 highest-grossing films of the year. It was the box office itself that changed, in terms of what kinds of films make money, as Hollywood moves to a split between mega-blockbusters that are primarily action-oriented and much smaller films that compete for awards.
Because he didn’t submit himself for consideration. You have to show up for the game if you want to get picked. Not that he likely would have been nominated even if he had.
Sapochnik not getting nominated is bullshit.
Surprised Dinklage scored a nom, but I guess it’s the whole business-as-usual thing. It’s a super-tough category, though, in between Jonathan Banks–who had one of those Emmy-perfect scenes in Better Call Saul–and Ben Mendelsohn in Bloodline. I’d say he’s going to get shut out again.
Yay for Tatiana Maslany! Also yay for Pablo Schreiber getting a nod for Orange is the New Black, and Tituss Burgess getting a nod for Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. Congratulations to Jon Hamm for a double nom (Mad Men and Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt).
I don’t see anyone in the Supporting Actress category who can rival Lena’s buzz for the walk of shame. That sort of thing is usually catnip for these awards.
M,
Oh man, if there’s any justice in this world, Jonathan Banks should get the win for that scene. I’d say.
Emmy 2015,
Thanks for this so both Sophie and Maisie were submitted but not picked!!! don’t get me wrong i have no grudge against emilia and definitely not one of those who thinks she’s not a good actress but still both Sophie and Maisie were far better IMO.
Sean C.,
Agreed.
Dinklage could spend the entire season scratching his ass and make funny faces, and they’d still nominate him because people like the character.
I don’t see how his performance in S5 was outstanding.
Jonathan Pryce’s performance as the High Sparrow was outstanding, also his script/lines were very well written. Alfie Allen performance as Theon(Reek) was outstanding.
I don’t see what dinklage did that’s worthy of a nomination. Same goes for Emilia in my opinion.
And why is the Dorne episode nominated… Literally everything I’ve read/heard about the episode is “Oh god, the sandsnakes thing was absolutely terrible”.
Some of these nominations just baffles me.
Is Jonathan Pryce (High Sparrow) a supporting actor or guest actor?
Because if he’s supporting actor, I’d see him instead of Dinklage… and if he’s a guest actor, I’d see him instead of Riggs. Well not “instead” because it’s separte categories for actor/actress, but you get my point!
That wasn’t the only scene in that episode.
Wimsey,
So Wimsey: you brought up the bias against the fantastical elements just as I was thinking that they keep nominating Peter, an American actor, and Emilia, a very visible and familiar (Terminator, Bfast @ Tiff’s anyone?) actor to Americans, instead of nominating the very talented European (mostly British) actors. Do you think that there is a jealousy bias in Hollywood against the “classically trained” Brits? It just seems that, in HW, Brits are kind of like the private school kids in the ACT test classroom. Everyone just knows that they are going to blow the curve on the exam.
The fact actors even have to submit themselves for these awards is a joke. It’s just as bad as all the campaigning you have to do to win an Oscar.
Robb Snow,
No. Guess who was nominated instead of Nikolaj for S3, yup Dinklage smh.
I’m with you on Downton. That shows been in a death spiral for 3 years now.
Ashara D,
Lena Headey and Diana Rigg are both British, as well. I wouldn’t assume that Peter Dinklage was nominated solely based on his nationality, but more so because of how easily his character stands out–the only dwarf in the whole cast who is known for long dialogues and good punchlines. The same could be said for Emilia, who plays the white-haired beauty who is the only character that has three pet dragons. But plenty of accomplished British actors still win Emmys–just last year, both Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman took home awards for Sherlock. (Hell, the most popular American president, Abraham Lincoln, was portrayed by an Irish man just a few years back, and he won an Oscar for it).
GRRM chimes in. He thought Maisie and Sophie got snubbed too! http://grrm.livejournal.com/434896.html
I am incredibly happy that the show gets recognized. And I agree with most of the nominations awarded to the show.
However: Peter Dinklage for outstanding actor? Don’t get me wrong he IS an outstanding actor, no doubt about it. But I did not feel his work in season 5 matched what he did in previous seasons (i.e., season 4). Sometimes, I feel this nominations are in auto-pilot….
The other objection is: No Sapochnick nomination? (sorry if I misspelled his last name). I mean, Hardhome gets recognized in lots of categories and had an immense impact on viewers when it aired (sullied and unsullied alike)… I think he did a tremendous job with episodes 7 (where the pieces finally fell into place) and 8 (when the shit hit the fan). Not happy he was overlooked.
Horses and carts: most Oscar nominees get a huge box office boost after the nominations, if only because they get much wider distributions after they get either after the nominations, or as the studios are pushing them for the nominations: and the biggest issue for making big $$$ is not the $ per theater, but the # of theaters in which a film is playing. Moreover, the highest grossing films of most years frequently do not get nominations. That’s a huge reason why they went to the expanded 10 Best Picture nominees: the Academy had noticed a big correlation between the financial success of the nominated Best Pictures and the ratings for the Oscars broadcast; after Batman didn’t get a nomination despite glowing reviews (which was blamed, rightly or wrongly, on the huge financial success of the film), and after that year’s Oscar broadcast got dismal ratings,
Generally speaking, among the nominated films for “Best Picture,” there has been a negative association between winning and box office totals. So, if you knew nothing else about the nominated films and were betting on “best picture,” if you picked the one with the lowest grosses at the time that ballots were cast, then you would pick the most winners. (There are other important factors: for example, if a film has a Best Picture nomination but no Best Director nomination, then ignore the $$$: cross that one off of your list; also, there are particular directors who, over different intervals, have “clicked” with the academy better than others: but, again, this is a Bayesian exercise in simple priors.)
Wimsey,
You know? I tried those Bayesian exercises once….pulled every muscle in my body. Now I just stick with “Toning with Jane Fonda”. I can have my rum and coke and get a bit of stretching in at the same time. 😛
That is a common belief. However, I seem to recall Box Office Mojo looking at it and finding that, if anything, the opposite bias existed after you take into account the fact that there are many more US+Canadian actors (the Canucks get lumped in with the Yanks in many of the examples) than there are UK actors.
That written, I seem to remember that they found there is a bias when you look at where the film was made, or where the studio is centered, or something like that. British actors/actresses do very well in US productions, but British productions don’t do as well as US productions, or something like that. (This was stuff I read on Box Office Mojo 10+ years ago, probably in connection to analyzing Return of the King’s chances, so it might now be well out-of-date: 10+ years is a LOT of data for something like the Oscars; also, my memory of stuff I read once a dozen years ago is almost certainly imperfect!)
Couldn’t resist the list of RADA graduates in Game of Thrones: Ciaran Hinds (Mance), Iain Glen (Jorah), Julian Glover (Pycelle), Indira Varma (Ellaria), Mark Addy (Robert Baratheon), Sean Bean (Ned Stark), etc. etc. Not so much with the 20something crowd–RADA rejected Emilia Clarke, LOL–but GOT is chock full of them.
There are lots of theatre heavy hitters in the older crowd (although Kerry Ingram jointly won an Olivier Award for Matilda). Iain Glen is a two-time nominee for the Laurence Olivier Award for Best Actor in a Play. Stephen Dillane was nominated once. Conleth Hill won the Olivier Award and I believe he was nominated for two Tonys. Diana Rigg has been nominated something like four times for an Olivier Award and won a Tony award, too.
With all that said, at least with respect to Diana Rigg’s nom, she hasn’t had much more to do than be salty and British (see also Maggie Smith in Downton Abbey). Award voters love them some bitchy British old dames (see also Judi Dench getting nominated for being salty and British for all of eight minutes in Shakespeare in Love). The sad thing is that she does have the chops for much more.
I’m sad that Pryce got shut out because of his role being too big for Guest, too small for Supporting. Sad. He’s been acting rings around pretty much everyone.
JCDavis,
May the posterior ratios be ever in your favor…… 😀
M,
Well, one of the things that Thrones has done is gotten very solid actors for relatively small roles. There was a lot of grousing about why the recast Myrcella for such a small role: but time and time again, they’ve gotten the best possible actor/actress for whatever role they have open. Even if a person appears on only three scenes, it’s better to have a “plus” actor in those three scenes than an average or below-average one.
Basically, the show is almost like a sports team that has players who would be starters on other teams as utility or backup players. Is that player getting under-utilized relative to what he/she could be on another team? Certainly: but their current team is better for having average starters fill in the holes than it would be for having average scrubs fill in the holes.
Ravyn,
GRRM hates the show and D&D, obviously.
Queen of the Keys,
And now his watch has ended!
I love the GOT heavy hitters doing amazing work who will never get awards recognition because they lack the name recognition and they don’t fit into the right slots, like Diana Rigg does (“salty British old dame”). Iain Glen blows all of the lead GOT actors out of the water.
Thinking about Iain Glen, who doesn’t look at all like Book Jorah but is an excellent actor, I wonder how much better the show would have been if they’d cast some of their leads for pure talent instead of for having the right “look” the way they did with Emilia Clarke.
Emmy 2015,
hardhome – not nominated for directing?! How much more spectacular (or beloved by viewers) does a director’s work need to be to garner a nomination?… also considering that in addition to audience’s love the episode earned 6 other nominations?
taim,
My running theory is that they thought *other* scenes in Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken were effective, not the Sand Snakes, as if that balanced out…..which would nonetheless seem to be part of their overall mentality that they don’t have to make everything tolerable. Their strategy seems to have been “shoot the Moon”, focus on making Hardhome a great episode, then spend limited awards promotion resources (time) fixating on how great that one part was. But this doesn’t wash out the bad parts.
“Camerawork” of note in that episode was the Hall of Faces in Braavos and Sansa’s wedding in the Godswood (which if nothing else was brilliantly filmed). I don’t think the main director actually worked on the Sand Snakes fight, from the look of things.
But why make excuses? If you have a notoriously badly filmed fight scene, even if other good scenes were in the same episode…..why draw attention to it? There are plenty of other episodes with good camerawork.
Wimsey,
Your comment made me think about the wounded man Arya and the Hound come across, and is then put out of his misery after a little philosophising. Such a brief appearance but I loved that guy.
(Barry McGovern, upon google searching.)
I don’t exactly see what Kit did this season to deserve a nomination? Being able to swing a sword and do your own stunts does not equal good acting.
And Sophie is incredibly overrated by some fans. Some of her scenes were cringy this season. And she clearly failed in others like the tavern scene where she was supposed to subtlety communicate with Brienne.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Thank you… it shocks me how some people are shocked at the UUU nom.. okay fine, maybe there was better, but to be absolutely shocked or find it laughable? Come on…
Anyway that epi also had the Hall of Faces and the Sparrow Trial. SO good… My opinion.
As a big fan of films I’m surprised people think Kit Harrington is a good actor LOL, I mean really? the guy is such a one note actor the directors are forced to close up on his face every time to tell the audience what he is feeling. Dillane seems like the Harrison Ford type who hates comic con panels, season premieres and all the other fan oriented events I don’t blame him for not wanting nominations. people are making it sound like Hardhome action scene was shot in a single take by Stanley Kubrick or something.
El-Bobby,
Actually, Jon’s ‘executive decision’ scene with Janos Slynt clinched it for me this season. The way he slammed that fookin mug down and stood up – something as seemingly simple as that was so well done.
Iain Glen deserved it this season above everyone else. He was such a badass & convinced me of a lot of things. And LOL at UUU haters. Sansa getting bent makes me sick to my stomach & that’s why it got a nod. However, no Hardhome in that category is ridiculous. Also, I called it after it aired… the sound editing on Hardhome is Emmy worthy. Also, I love how the episodes that were dark af as far as lighting got no love. *glares at House of B&W*
Agreed. Her lack of ability might not be as glaring as Emilia Clarke’s, another actress who seems to have been cast primarily for her looks, but she was pretty cringeworthy at points this season. Another example of why casting a young actress in a key role primarily for beauty is a crapshoot. You might an actress who blossoms as an actress and turns out to be as talented as she is beautiful, or you might get Emilia Clarke.
…With all that said, Maisie Williams was a big yawn except when she was losing her shit over being blinded. Can’t see how she deserved a nom, either.
Also agree about Kit. As an actor, Kit’s a great stuntman. To be fair, though, if Emilia Clarke can get a nom, there’s definitely hope for Kit.
Outstanding Writing For A Drama Series
David Benioff and D.B. Weiss – Mother’s Mercy
Is this a joke 🙂 Worst writing in history of writing for a drama series or any series… ever! To call it outstanding… no, just to think to call it outstanding should be punished by law 🙂 Just two words for you people who nominate… bad pussy.
The UUU nom seems like a great big “Fuck you” to everyone who complained about the way the rape scene was filmed.
…I’m kind of surprised, given the somewhat cooler critical reception this year, that the award noms for directing, writing, etc. still poured in, in a field that’s as tough as ever. I guess buzz counts for a lot.
Rygritte,
I agree. I think Iain gave the best performance this season out of everyone in the cast; he managed to convey a huge range of emotion under a cool exterior even better than Lena did. I actually like the way that Jorah and Dany’s relationship is portrayed in the show better than the books. This past season, it almost seemed like they were an estranged married couple, rather than a queen and her exiled subject.
Rygritte,
Iain Glen deserved it I agree, one of the best actors on the show… all of this nominations are one big joke from my point of view-and are becoming worse from year to year. Just cant believe how people that make this nominations are ignorant and simple… almost seam like Justin Bieber or Kim Kardashian could do a better job 🙂
I wondered if, because of his advanced age, high profile and respect in the industry, Jonathan Pryce might get a ‘Guest Actor’ nod…however, I guess Diana Rigg has the edge because not only does she have all those things, but her character is a ‘fan favorite’…and while Pryce’s performance was extraordinary, his character wasn’t ‘lovable’ or ‘scene-stealing’ in the Roger Sterling-ish way Lady Olenna is. (but there’s always next year!)
Deesensfan,
Exactly, calling it laughable is laughable actually, the last 15 minutes was pure gold just pure
In the modern “Oscar season” where most of the films are released at the very end of the year, sure. But that has not been the case historically.
Some people who just think the Academy hates popular stuff said that, but they were not correct. Looking at the basic history of the Oscars shows otherwise. The problem TDK had is that the Academy doesn’t like comic book movies; nothing to do with how much money it made.
Sophie did not fail there. In a medium where we can’t read minds (as defenders of the character’s general portrayal are fond of saying in defending how marginalized Sansa has been for much of the show), there’s a whole visual language the show can use to express a character’s thoughts. The script mentioned nothing more than a look in her eye, which is nowhere near enough (particularly as most of the focus in that scene is on Brienne and Littlefinger). If the show wanted to communicate that Sansa was worried about Brienne, there were plenty of ways to make that clear which they didn’t use (e.g., using Sansa-POV shots cutting between the armed men tensing for a fight and Brienne, Sansa’s expression softening for a second, etc.). The scene simply does nothing to support the interpretation Christie says was in the script.
Daughter of Winter,
Tottaaaalllly agree.
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
Yep. Podeswa did a BRILLIANT job with that sequence. The buildup and the sense of dawning dread were very well-handled, as well as the horrible act itself which was rendered tastefully as it could possibly be really. It was the best directing of the season IMHO, it’s just that other parts of the episode didn’t quite match up with it’s quality.
I certainly don’t think 506 is the worst of s5 though. I’d say 501 still is.
El-Bobby,
Overrated??? Dude i can say that about every praised or even not praised actor/actress in history of cinema i mean seriously?
Mihnea,
I agree, the fight scene was very poor but that’s not Podeswa’s fault, it’s because they wanted to shoot it essentially in a high profile museum (the Alcazar) with strict rules, regulations, and an incredibly short time window. The rest of the episode was actually very well shot, especially Sansa’s wedding scene, and the build up to her rape…we can debate the necessity of the scene, or how far it went, but the whole sequence was one of the most artfully shot in the entire series, and Podeswa definitely succeeded in a slow buildup of pure dread and horror, to the point where I think all of us were practically begging for something to intervene and stop what was happening up to the last second. If anything, much of the controversy can be attributed to Podeswa doing his job too well – consider the reaction to Sansa’s rape, compared to the many, many rape scenes in Outlander, some of which are incredibly sadistic, graphic, tasteless, gratuitous, and promoting horrible misconceptions about rape…but Outlander didn’t blow up the internet, and if anything, those scenes provoked a mostly positive response from its fanbase. [note – I’m not defending Sansa’s rape per se, as I’m still not sure how I feel about it, and won’t be sure until I’ve seen the rest of the show and have all the context…just defending Podeswa]
And yet they managed to give an antire lifetime’s worth of depth to Karsi, who only appeared for a few minutes… I wonder if she would have been nominated despite the minute role, in case “Birgitte Hjort Sørensen” was as well known a name in Hollywood as “Diana Rigg”. It would probably have been the shortest role ever to get a nomination (correct me if I’m wrong), and yet very deserved.
Wimsey,
I’m not expecting major depth from her but all she seems to do is peg up make some bitchy remarks then buggers off again! May be my personal taste but I don’t think she’s as entertaining as she is generally given credit for. She has been good when given less shallow material with Sansa, Tywin and the High Sparrow. The face off between her and Cersei seemed to lack that kind of grandeur and I think the corny tart remark cheapened the scene a bit.
Of the acting nominees, Lena has the best chance, though I’m not sure I’d call her the favoured candidate. Baranski and Froggatt are perennial nominees, but I don’t think there’s any reason for them to suddenly win this year. Hendricks is also a perennial nominee, but I suppose one must at least consider/hope that Mad Men‘s end has made the voters realize it’s ridiculous she hasn’t won already. Aduba is a bit of a wildcard, since she won Guest Actress for this part last year, in the Comedy category; while the transition to the Drama categories clearly hurt Orange is the New Black on the whole, it may actually benefit Aduba in some ways, since her arc in season 2 was not remotely funny. So I’d put Headey, Aduba, and Hendricks as the potential winners in the category.
Hardhome’s visual effects are superior in EVERY FUCKIN’ WAY to that puff the magic dragon stuff in The Dance Of Dragons.
Also, the episode is superior to the finale.
These people submit the weirdest shit.
Lena & Emilia talk about the season 6 scripts here
http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/game-of-thrones-season-6-scripts-emmy-nominations-record-lena-headey-emilia-clarke-1201542041/
Wimsey,
I think the academy hates art. Nightcrawler wasn’t even mentioned at the oscars, Shame Shame Shame Ding. Boyhood was a good movie but did it deserve that many nominations? I hate Nolan fanboys but I think the guy deserves at least nominations for his crazy ideas and he made batman into a beefed up urban mechanical crime fighting gadget thing.
taim,
So true. Alfie is outstanding. I am always floored by the emotions he shows without speaking a word.
While we’re praising bit players that do a lot with a little, Hannah Waddingham got more mileage out of maybe two words (“Confess” and “Shame”) than most actors do with pages of dialogue. Her shame bell was iconic.
outdoorcats,
So they actually shot the fight scenes in the Alcazar? No wonder that fight turned out so bad. They really should’ve shot those on a separate set, or just skipped the Alcazar altogether. The whole Dorne arc might’ve turned out better.
When I first read Mother’s Mercy got nommed for anything, I was in shock because I couldn’t remember anything from it besides the Dothraki, but I guess some stuff happened in that episode. S4 set the bar HIGH.
Basically, all that Clarke says is that the pace is “go-go-go from episode 1”. That’s what I expected with 20 episodes left.
Edit: Seriously Rygritte? Huge disappointment? I don’t think so. The people I was watching with, for some reason said that stuff didn’t happen in the first couple of episodes. Which was just flat out bogus, Mance Rayder got burned in very first episode. Yes, we didn’t have something similar to the Purple Wedding in Ep2, but that doesn’t mean that the show was an utter disappointment. Season 5 felt very coherent in its storytelling. The way in which Stannis and Brienne’s stories along with Sansa, Theon’s and the Bolton’s end up coinciding tells us that they did put a lot of planning into that storyline. Arya’s storyline was nothing short but almost straight from the book and very pleasing. Dany’s storyline was condensed to be told better – and I loved seeing her and Dinklage in the same room. There’s plenty more where that came from, definitely more pro’s than con’s. And Hardhome.
GeekFurious,
I hope you consider the first half of hardhome too when saying it was better than finale because ever since the episode aired most people just talk about second half like there was nothing prior to that, now don’t get me wrong i enjoyed that 30 minutes as much as everyone else ( that shot of those 4 others on the cliff man i won’t change it with anything from Lord of Rings) but the first half was absolutely brilliant too.
Emmy 2015,
At the very least… here is hoping that Sophie and Maisie are bumped up in the opening credits to main cast, rather than lumped in with the secondary regulars next year – they more than deserve it by now… oh, and Alfie too.
They are main POVs with individual story lines, not just supporting others, come on HBO, do this starting season 6! 🙂
That was how I felt about the entire season. The locations are a big part of what makes the show so great, but this season seemed like it was heavy on location and light on story.
I hate when they use the word “mental”. Wtf is “mental”? Sophie and Maisie say that all the time as well. Irks the hell out of me. Is it supposed to mean crazy? Mind-blowing? What? What is mental? Someone translate British slang for me.
I think the Emmy voters did and that’s why it didn’t get the nom
Yeah, I hate when British people talk British. How distasteful. Luckily, Emilia does a killer valley-girl. Respect.
Mental: British Slang for “This shite is off the hizzle!” Not to be confused with: “This is bonkers”
RosanaZugey,
It’s British for crazy.
So, in the middle of all your sarcastic passive aggressive nonsense, could you bother to actually answer the question? Mental means, what? That it’s crazy? Amazing? Mind-blowing? Awesome? What does mental mean?
Please don’t look for insults where there are none and simple answer the question.
Robb Snow,
I am 95% certain that most of the scene was indeed shot at the Alcazar; I seem to remember an article where Podeswa talked about the difficulty of shooting the scene there. However, I can’t find it. I agree that if my memory is correct, shooting the scene there was a misconceived idea, but the writing of that scene was also misconceived and frankly terrible from the start (the awkward silliness of the situation, the bizarre coincidences, the light and non-threatening tone, the fact that the garden appears to be the only location in Dorne, so we never see any Dornish people).
Thank you.
Emilia Clarke really stepped it up this year (she lacked solid material last year). I’m so happy for her, she really did show her Daenerys this year as she did in season 1.
RosanaZugey,
I also don’t get why, whenever a cast member is asked about an intense scene, so many of them answer by saying, “Well, it’s Game of Thrones.” No, really? And here I thought I was watching an episode of The Golden Girls 😉
I was never a huge Stannis fan, the Stannis character I mean, but even I thought that Dillane’s acting this season was spectacularly noteworthy. The scene where he’s told that the Bolton army is already amassing is unforgettable: he knows it’s a botched, lost cause; he realizes what he’s paid to get to that lamentable point, yet he pulls his sword anyway and leads from the front. You can see every emotion cross his face; the “Go on, do your duty, ” scene was amazing. Dillane was Stannis, through and through. Why he didn’t submit his work to the Emmys is a mystery. He should have some mention.
Much as I like Dinklage, his rolling drunk from the crate didn’t equal Dillane’s last scene. I will say this though, the entire scene of him and Glen floating into Valyria was one I played over and over, from the banter to the poetry, to the spotting of Drogon, the fake black out, all the way to the end. I watched that portion of the episode many times. Which episode was he nominated for, again? Sorry, I don’t have time right now to go back and look. I wish him good luck.
The most mysterious thing is why Kit didn’t submit his work. I thought his work this season was the best, with Dillane second.
Ser Oromis Locke,
Personally, I think it’s great that the GoT fandom community is giving people from many different countries the opportunity to learn about linguistic differences from each other. She was only asking a question, ser. It’s similar to how people always ask Americans why they spell “color” and “flavor” without the –u.
I agree – especially on a rewatch of the season. There was good stuff the whole way. People are putting too much emphasis on the weakness of the Dorne scenes, and forgetting all the good stuff. I even liked all the stuff leading to the confrontation in the Water Gardens: The sweet young love between Myrcella and Trystane; Bronn on the beach with Lollys; Jamie and Bronn on the beach deciding whether or not to eat snake for breakfast (Bronn did, Jamie did not.) And the scenes after, even the poison in the jail scene, and the temporary truce scene where Doran set terms for Trystane going to Kings Landing.
I hate to say it, but the most off-putting parts were Ellaria’s heightened accent and over-the-top seething at Doran, and Nym’s constant frowny-face scowl. That was the only facial expression that little girl had, that overdone scowl. If they are going to have any major time next season, those things have to be worked on.
But all-in-all, the season was a pretty good one, excluding when Jon got killed.
Good one. That’s kind of like when I ask somone, “How are you?” And they reply with, “I’m here.” I always want to say, “No shit, Sherlock! I didn’t ask for your geographical location, I asked how you were doing!”
Anywho, the British/American word translation is serious business to me lately. Just yesterday a British woman approached me in a grocery store and asked if I knew where the “biscuits” were. Ok, I’m American. So, when you ask for “biscuits” I think of those damn Pillsbury biscuits that are in a blue circular canister, that you pop open and put in the oven to cook. So, I start pointing the woman to the refrigerated section and she’s like, “They’re not cold.” I’m like…uh…uh…uh…??? Apprently her “biscuits” and my “biscuits” aren’t the same thing. *Shrugs* I was so damn confused.
Anywho, to actually be on-topic, out of the 3 people nominated, I feel like only Lena Headey deserves her nomination this year. There were other actors and actresses (Dillane, Alfie, Kit, Sophie, Maisie) who were far more deserving than either Peter or Emilia.
outdoorcats,
Agreed. That whole sequence needed fixing… and it honestly wouldn’t have been that difficult to do. Making it clear that Ellaria and the Sand Snakes originally intended to kidnap Myrcella at a much less conspicuous time and place, but were forced to spring their plan early after spotting Jaime and Bronn, would’ve been a simple task and make much more sense out of what happened (and make Ellaria and the SS seem less stupid).
Dorne in general was a mess. It will continue to baffle me how they messed it up so bad for a long time to come.
RosanaZugey,
Hmm did she mean cookies?
Because they wrote in 2-3 months, what GRRM was writing for 11 years. Somewhere it won’t be that good.
They put 2 books in one season, and on many places they did very good job, but in Dorne they just didn’t. I think that the main problem with Dorne was, that that storyline didn’t feel like a part of some grander scheme. It didn’t answer the question: “What purpose Dorne serves in this story?” One or two weak scenes don’t mean anything.
70-80% of the scenes in Dorne were ok, but it didn’t pay off.
I think we will get that answer next season, but now it just feels unfinished.
RosanaZugey,
Woah, just looked up biscuits to see what you meant and your North American ones are very different from our version. The short explanation is that if Cookie Monster was a Brit he’d be Biscuit Monster 😀
EDIT: ninja’d by Moonlight
Good Grief! I hope she didn’t mean cookies, because if she did, I TOTALLY sent her to the opposite side of the store. *Facepalm* Damnit! I feel bad now. Maybe she DID mean cookies!! Fml. 🙁 It would explain why they’re not “cold”. Humph. Well. There’s nothing to be done about it now. I guess if another British person randomly comes up to me in a grocery store and asks for “biscuits”, I’ll know they mean cookies. 😉
I can’t wait for season 6! I have never wished for winter this much!!
so, even though most agree that Season 5 was probably the weakest season so far, do they have a chance to win Best Drama without Breaking Bad in the mix this year? Maybe as a reward for the previous 4 seasons of better work?
I dont really think any of the actors are actually doing a bad job, I think GoT has a great cast. A lot of the time people misjudge or misreads the actual character, and calls it bad acting. Or you have situations where for example Dany, Rob and Jon are much younger in books. Sometimes especially in the first few seasons of GoT it just seemed somewhat strange or out of place for their characters to act like teenagers because they are obviously adults in the show.
I can understand some of the criticism for Kit in some seasons but I thought he had some great or even perhaps some of the best moments during this season, my favorite was the end of Hardhome and his stare down with the Night Kings I thought that was really well acted. Or his execution of Jonos Slynt, or when Stannis offers him Winterfell. I think Kit has really actually improved a lot as an actor in these last two years. His latest performances in Testament of Youth and even the ridiculous 7 Days in Hell are getting some recognition. To make a long story short I thought he at least deserved a nod for this season.
Sophie also had a few good moments during the season, one her best was when she confronted Myranda, or where she sees Theon in the kennels for the first time. Actually she and Alfie Allen had quite a few good scenes together. The scene where Ramsay shows her the flayed servant was also very good.
But the most baffling decision must be the fact that they ignored Hardhome, it seems like they aren’t always in touch with the general population.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Agree
Pryce hit it out of the park. Ourstanding
Dillane deserves some recognition, especially his scene with Shireen as it made the later “scene” all the more heartbreaking
Moreso than Dinklage
Olenna and Headey above Clarke
Biscuits are called cookies in America.
I didn’t know ‘mental’ wasn’t used in the same way in the U.S.? I’ve heard it a lot here in Canada.
Of course, as an honorary Brit (honourary?), I get the best of both worlds. 🙂
Because of Headey, Dillane and Pryce…we tolerate Sand Snakes. GoT – when it’s good, it’s very, very good!
Yeah Hardhome being overlooked is odd. Seems they have their ideas on what will rate, eg Sand Snakes and then there’s the reality eg Hardhome
Hahaha. I’m lmao picturing the Cookie Monster eating a bunch of biscuits (American version). Lol. I’m easily amused. 😉 Ok! So! I’ll add that to my British to American translation.
Mental=Crazy
Biscuits=Cookies
Oh, so to get back to that article, I’m super pleased that S6 is going to be “go-go-go” from the start. It makes sense considering they left all of the stories on cliffhangers last season. Plus, with only 20 episodes left, they don’t have time for reminders. My money is that S6 starts off (very first scene) with Sansa and Theon getting up and running off. Or, my second guess, it starts with Jamie and Cersei standing over Myrcella’s body.
Anybody else want to take a stab at the opening scene?
NewJeffCT,
I really wonder who will win now that BB is done
I’m so happy for Lena she did an amazing job this season, Peter is been Peter as for Emilia I love her as a person but as Dany don’t. Game of thrones always have amazing actors/actresses I would like they receive more recognition. Alfie, Sophie, Maisie, Natalie and more…. I’m disappointed for unbowed unbent unbroken been nominated it was the worst episode of the season.
I loved Emilia’s performance. Hope she wins
RosanaZugey,
Don’t think your version of biscuits would give him anything like the sugar rush cookies do, he’d be soooo much calmer and waaaay less entertaining 😉
I really hope we see the conclusion of Sansa and Theon early on. I said in another thread I might have a mini-heart attack if it’s not resolved in ep 1 and I wasn’t joking. I’ll be comfort eating biscuits (the sugary kind) to help with the anxiety 🙁
So what does “mental” mean to you, as in mental health or something else entirely?
You know, I kind of wouldn’t want them to win best drama for this season primarily because I don’t think it deserves it. This entire season felt like one giant set up for the final two seasons. If/since that’s the case, then they’d be winning for an “outline” (so to speak) and not the final draft, and well, drafts don’t deserve to win prizes
LOL to the book purist haters. Let’s see if I can get your logic straight:
“The show sucks, the ratings are plummeting” = Highest ratings of all time.
“Well, the ratings don’t mean anything, because the audience is stupid” = 97% RT from critics
“Oh yeah? Critics don’t mean anything = 24 Emmy nominations
“So? Emmy Nominations are meaningless!” = My opinion is the only one that counts!!!! Waaahhhh!
Keep moving that goal post, haters. Better yet, just stop watching. No one will miss you.
Wow, we made it 188 replies before someone threw in ‘book purist’. Now we just need ‘agency’, ‘strong female’, ‘deux ex machina’, ‘book wankers’, and ‘plot device’.
Emilia and Lena quoted on their nominations, and Emilia talks about the new scripts, calls them “sick”.: http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/game-of-thrones-season-6-scripts-emmy-nominations-record-lena-headey-emilia-clarke-1201542041/
Pigeon,
I’ve been busy today.
Ravyn,
LOL. That’s ok, it got into the ‘narrative’ at some point!
“I hate when they use the word mental.” They as in British people. Yes, she asked a question, but it was preceeded by something that was at least a bit rude. Should the British adjust their idiom, so they would be less hated for their choice of words by Americans? But if it’s selfhatred because simply not knowing, than no problem, my misunderstanding..
I thought that the “hate”-part in your comment was pointed towards British using their idiom, if that was meant to signify your feelings towards your own lack of knowledge of British phrases, than I’m sorry for assuming the other option. Mental is crazy in the “my mind was blown”-sense of crazy, such as Americans often use the phrase “off the hook”.
Back to the topic, we agree on the article and reasons for the first few episodes already having that gogogo-pace. I like your idea of kicking off with Sansa and Theon. It was the result of probably a few of the better arcs colliding at Winterfell, so kicking the new season off with that would be great and give us that immediate kick of momentum, considering that Ramsey will want his bride back and those two are just on foot. How are they going to escape?!
Starting with Myrcella’s funeral would be detrimental to the pace. A burial is a stagnant thing and I think it’s one of the main reasons why people thought the 5th season was slow, you start off (after a flashback) with a talk-heavy scene with Tywin as a corpse with no real momentum there. You could say, it’s just one scene, but it set the tone. So yeah, I would like to see an opening scene with a bit of high octane.
Another start I could think off would be having scene with Tyrion, Varys, Missandei and GW having to deal with insurgents in Meereen, followed by the appearance of a mysterious woman in red named Kinvara. But that’s probably too minor for the grand opening of S6.
Also, whatever happened to the Varymyr-Casting Call? What happened there?
Lol. He’d probably fall into a stuper and sleep all day if he ate biscuits (American) instead of cookies. 😉
I’ve never actually heard the term “Mental” before (used as a slang word). Of course, there’s mental health, mental apptitude, mental state, etc., but to say something is “mental”…I’ve never heard it until Sophie used it in a red carpet interview. It’s not a term that’s used by anyone I know, so I was completely unfamiliar with it. I imagined it meant “crazy” (or maybe mind-blowing), but I wanted to know for sure. It was really bothering me.
Anywho, I’m fairly confident that that issue will be resolved in episode 1. Matter of fact, I’m thinking next season will follow this season in terms of the number of episodes for each character. If that’s the case, we should get Sansa/Theon for at least the first 5-7 episodes (if they both live that long).
Do you guys call them cookies or biscuits? I’m all curious about this shit now. 😉
RosanaZugey,
Haha! I’m pretty sure most of us use ‘cookies’, but we also have things labeled in French as well, and the French Canadian word for cookie is ‘biscuit’, go figure, so……oh lord. Now I just want cookies. :/
Miguel Sapochnik suggested they gender-swap the Varamyr character into Karsi during pre-production.
RosanaZugey,
I see, I thought you meant Americans called things “mental” but meant it in a completely different way. It can be applied to people, situations or just about anything really, but mainly along the lines of crazy, mind-blowing or perhaps totally unexpected.
If Cookie Monster has too many cookies he goes mental from the sugar; alternatively if there are no cookies he might go mental trying to get some. Whereas Ramsay just is mental full stop! 😉
RosanaZugey,
We call them cookies.
Flora Linden,
I knooooooooooooooowwwwwwww. Tatiana should have won since season 1, she’s better than Lena and Emilia by far, although I love their work on GOT so much, I hope they both win… so hard to choose.
Yeah, I apologize. I didn’t mean to come off as being anti-British (or a farking bitch (especially in my follow up comment)). Not knowing/understanding things puts me in a bad mood and brings out the asshole in me. I’m sorry. I wasn’t trying to/didn’t mean to offend. It was an honest question stated in a rude way. My apologies.
Honestly…I have zero idea how they’re going to escape. I guessed in a different post that they WOULDN’T escape; that Ramsay would find them quickly (especially since their tracks would be visible in the snow) and continue the horrors with both of them. If they do manage to escape, then it’s going to have to mean an early season death for Ramsay (either at the hands of Brienne or Sansa).
But check me! Tell me what you think, because I’ve been thinking about this for a minute now. You remember back in S4 when Sansa gave that sob story to the Vale Lords about how badly the Lannisters treated her and LF was her only friend and blah, blah, blah? Well, here’s what I’m thinking. I think she does the same exact thing in S6, except she’ll do it with the Northern Lords (and…it’ll be the truth). She will tell them the horror story of Ramsay locking her in a room in a her own damn house and raping/abusing her every night, and that will rally the North to rise up and rid themselves of the Boltons and restore House Stark to Winterfell. With both Stannis and Jon dead, the only one left to rally the North is Sansa. If she uses the horrors she suffered last season (like she did in S4 with the Vale Lords) to get what she wants this next season (Winterfell, and to find her brothers), then I feel like everything that happened last season would make sense, if not be completely justified. But what do you think?
Also, you’re right; starting off with another funeral would probably be too reminiscent of S5, and start the season off on a slow pace. Hadn’t looked at it that way, but yeah, you’re right. I can see it. Looking at it that way, I’m going to have to go back to my original prediction that the season opens with Sansa and Theon running in the snow.
I soooo don’t get this
However, I will be sorely miffed if the following awards are not given to GOT….
Outstanding Casting For A Drama Series
Outstanding Cinematography For A Single-Camera Series
utstanding Costumes For A Period/Fantasy Series, Limited Series Or Movie
Outstanding Single-Camera Picture Editing For A Drama Series
and any of the others for Hardhome
Very well deserved!
It’s kind of ironic that your post is seething with hate, now isn’t it?
You know what? People like crap like Transformers and X-Men, too, and Mad Max Fury Road got incredible reviews. That doesn’t mean I want GoT to be anything like them. It is pretty clear that most people around here find an overly-Hollywoodized action scene as the season’s high point. That is not a good thing.
Dollars to doughnuts, the next season is going to open with Sansa and Theon running through the woods, with no discussion of how they got away.
We’re told, in-universe, that the North is already super-loyal to the Starks, to the point that Roose feels that marrying Sansa and consequently going against the Iron Throne is the only thing he can do to save the Bolton dynasty. Sansa being raped and abused would be utterly unnecessary to rally the North. Indeed, the whole idea of the Boltons wanting to marry her presumes she’s already able to do that.
They don’t like fantasy/scifi in general. Much like the literary world, the Academy typically assumes that fantasy elements are just there as a substitute for real story-telling. Of course, as so many of the major blockbusters over the last few decades have been in this general genre, this in itself could lend to the negative association between financial success and Oscar success. That written, however, there still is a negative association between the box offices and winning among nominated films.
As for the “old days” when there was no Oscar season and when films stayed in theaters for months on end, yes, it was more common for Oscar nominated films to wind up in the Top 10 for the year. However, this is again a cart and horse issue: films usually had long runs after getting the nominations or even awards, and this got used heavily in the advertising. Of course, there also were far fewer films released then: Hollywood cranks them out at a hellacious rate these days. One side effect is that 30 years ago, you could go to the mall cinema now and again at XMas, and several of the 10 or 12 films being shown would be the same. Now the films playing in July will be sold for XMas gifts this year on DVD & BR. Of course, modern tech has changed the way that the Academy members get to vote: once upon a time, they had to actually go to a theater to see the film; now, they get DVD/BR/digital copies from the studios pushing the case for the film.
At any rate, the fact that Thrones is getting nominations despite all of the fantasy elements tells us one thing: that it’s doing extremely well in the drama elements Given that the show is handicapping itself with dragons and occasional sorcery, it has to be doing especially well in the character development department and in the story-telling department (which are extremely tightly intertwined, anyway) to be getting this much recognition.
Most Yanks recognize it for being used as “crazy” thanks to the Harry Potter books/films. I read a study somewhere showing that the US had the biggest increase in British slang/euphemisms/metaphors after Harry Potter than any time since the Beatles. (“Gear” and “fab” and “grotty” and all of those great words that we… never use anymore.)
Well, we saw the same thing with the Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter films. Basically, I think that it comes down to a simple thing: the SciFi/Fantasy genre has a lot of elements that appeal to a certain subset of the population on one hand but actively turn off the larger population on the other hand. Conversely, I think that people turned off by modern drama, character development, etc., often are drawn to SciFi/Fantasy.
That written, those people who are trying to pretend that the scripting, acting, plotting of the show are subpar have just got to stop lying to themselves. If you genuinely hold that view, then you just have to accept that you dislike quality cinematic storytelling.
I’m betting you’re right, and it’s disappointing. Not because I want either of them to get hurt even more (Theon can’t walk straight to begin with), but because it’s just so unrealistic. I say that knowing full well I’m watching a fantasy show, here… 😛
Wimsey,
Ha! Too true…I honestly don’t think I’ve found many words more wonderfully descriptive than ‘dodgy’. It’s just so…appropriate. There is a car repair shop down the road called Dodgy’s, and I can only hope they’re either being cheeky or completely unaware.
One, who cares what the people around here think? Fans are a tiny, tiny subset of the viewers. Two, this is yet another of your illogical false equivalency arguments. None of those films got major nominations. None of them got anything like the praise that Thrones gets.
The problem is that what you personally want is a show that would entertain people of a caliber that cannot recognize how ridiculous High Sparrow = Howland Reed is. But guess what: the shows that get Emmy nominations are not aiming at that crowd.
Or, perhaps, I quite like quality cinematic storytelling, which is why I find the scripting and plotting of this show subpar.
I haven’t seen many people criticizing the acting on the show, in general — it’s hardly unusual for most people to have some individuals they don’t like. I personally don’t think anybody in the main cast is particularly weak, though there are some actors the show doesn’t serve particularly well (whatever they were directing Indira Varma to do this season did not work at all).
Chad Brick,
Lumping Mad Max Fury Road in with generic bullshit action movies like Transformers just shows your lack of ability to distinguish between good action and bad action. Yes. There is a difference. Action doesn’t necessarily denote dumb, except to maybe the most smug and arrogant among us. Then again, GRRM also loved the Hardhome episode, mentioned it today in his Emmy blog, so I guess that makes him a philistine, also.
Yes, she’s already able to command the loyalty of the Northerners. The Stark name will command the loyalty of the Northerners. I’m not referring to rallying the North to support her, or be loyal to her, I mean rally the North to ACTION. They have maintained peace with the Boltons for the sake of the Stark in Winterfell. If that same Stark in Winterfell now comes to them describing her own suffering at the hand of the Boltons and reminding them of THEIR suffering at the hands of the Boltons (i.e. Lord Cerwyn–who was mentioned last season), then she can move them to actually rise up against the Boltons and take back Winterfell. It’s their common suffering that will provoke that action. Throw in the fact that the rightful Lords of Winterfell still live (Bran and Rickon) and that will add even more of an impetus to fight.
I’m willing to bet that we see the same scene from s4e8 play out all over again, except this speech is going to end with a, “Fuck this shit, this is our House, we will not yield it to turn-cloaks who make us all suffer. You were loyal to my father…now be loyal to me. Fight for me…fight for your rightful Lords (Bran and Rickon),” (or some such dialogue).
There’s a reason they’re casting the Northern Lords. And since there no other significant character in the North (except for Sansa), any action they take, or the reason for them to be included in the narrative, has to come by/through/for her.
If I actively hated a show as much as some of these book purists did, I not only wouldn’t watch it, I wouldn’t spend all this time on the internet day after day, thread after thread, talking about it. But they seem to derive some morbid thrill in telling us what agony their in, as if anyone cared.
Congrats to Lena, Emilia, Peter and every other nominess in various categories.
Wonderful job.
I don’t get it. Emilia this and that…really? You should be happy that some people can recognize Game Of Thrones crew and actors. Look at The Walking Dead. Where are they? Emilia just had arguably her second best season (season 1 is still the best). They way she acts with CGI dragons, EP2 was probably my favourite from Emilia and Dany/Tyrion convo just seals the deal. Havin’ said that, Lena will win it.No doubt in my mind. She just owned this past season.
Just like with Emilia. Kit was great this season and should be there like his co-stars before him Alfie or Nikolaj for his work in S01-03…Peter is not the only one that can be nominated for awards. I’m not one of Kit’s biggest fans, but the boy can act and some people stated here in various scenes like Hardhome,Winterfell offer or Janos Slynt execution.
But for me the lack of Stephane Dillane and Hardhome…just scandalous.
Yeah, there’s a general consensus that his Kingslayer confession to Brienne should’ve at least earned a nomination. I actually thought he had a pretty good S4 (I didn’t give a shit about the rape scene, tbh). I loved his stuff with Tyrion, especially the beetle scene, even that was more Dinks. S5 wasn’t so good for him, if I’m being honest, though that had a lot more to do with what they gave him to work with.
Rygritte,
Huh? as i said i’m absolutely thrilled by this news but the day i found out that they gave the oscar to Rocky instead of Taxi Driver in 1976 i stopped giving a damn about majority of this festivals and ceremonies.
Too bad about Jonathan Pryce. He was exactly how I pictured the High Sparrow in my mind from the book. He’s such a fine actor, loved his take on Juan Peron in Evita. He made Madonna almost watchable. LOL
Hooray for Diana Rigg, IMO every second of her on screen time was gold.
viki,
Exactly that actually annoy me more than you could think of, both sansa and arya are among lead characters but for some odd reason their names comes with secondary characters in almost all of intro sequences, this should be fixed in my opinion.
I think Mad Men’s gonna win, as this was its final season, right? If it wasn’t, Thrones makes a very good chance, actually.
When I was a kid in the 70s it meant ‘idiotic’ or ‘stupid’ and was only used as in insult to a person (maybe short for ‘mentally challenged’). It went of of favour for many years but now appears to mean ‘mind-blowing’.
Many insults have long ceased e.g. ‘Spaz’ for ‘spastic’ and ‘flid’ (along with accompanying hands waving from shoulders) for ‘thalidomide’.
‘Mental’ went out of favour due to connotations of insulting the mentally ill.
I do remember my mum telling off my brother for being overly violent, and she said ‘Why do you have to be so physical?’ To which he replied ‘What is she, mental?’ Or something. He thought he was hilarious.
In the UK we have many different types of biscuits.
I believe the US version are similar to scones, not a type of biscuit here.
We call US style cookies ‘cookies’ but have other types, such as digestives, rich teas, malted milk, shortbread, garibaldi, custard creams, bourbons, crackers/cheese biscuits etc.
There are many differences, especially wrt food and motoring/cars.
There are many websites detailing the differences, mostly they are understandable but odd ones include ‘pavement’ (sidewalk) ‘rocket’ (arugula) and ‘courgette’ (zucchini?). Quite interesting.
Also laughed my head off when I first heard ‘Mr President’ for real. I thought it was a joke before then.
Also the tendency for Americans to lengthen the ‘a’ in many words such as ‘Sansa’ or ‘Varys’ sounds really odd when applied to ‘twat’. It just sounds wrong. You wouldn’t say ‘fart’ for ‘fat’ or ‘cart’ for ‘cat’.
Maybe it’s derived from French.
I have to agree with this. Someone once asked me if I’d seen ‘Transformers’ and I confessed I didn’t like such films. They convinced me to watch it however. It was exactly as I’d expected. X-men first class I loved, the start was excellent, leading to a ‘dracarys’ type climax when he was in the Argentine bar with the Germans. Very satisfying, the music helping enormously.
Sean C.,
lol, that would be awful, I hope not.
This is an interesting topic, how do you think all the cliffhangers will resolve in the first couple of episodes…
I think the season opening scene will be Bran, or a vision/flashback that ends with Bran, displaying Bran’s growth in his powers. Not sure which vision, but there are plenty to choose from 🙂 If it is like season 5, it will be a vision that will set the tone/course of the season or at least for one character (Jon? wishful thinking?)
Sansa / Theon – I think we will see them with Pod and Brienne, on the road traveling incognito, with a farmer/merchant’s cart to conceal/carry Theon and Sansa. Pod was left behind to watch WF and will notice the escape and rescue them. Theon will be badly hurt (broken bones, ribs, something), Sansa only slightly, or at least nothing she won’t recover from quickly. Traveling somewhere… maybe the local northerners will give them safe haven or have info on where they should go. Some other Northern house, to the Wall, back to the Vale? Meet LF on the road with the Vale army?
Davos and Melisandre – They will have to be involved somehow with the aftermath of Jon’s ‘death’ (yeah, I can’t see that it is permanent just yet), as I don’t see either of them staying given the new NW situation. Mel will have a plan or see something in the fires and Davos, being directionless will follow along. I don’t think he will know (at least not so soon) the circumstances of how Shireen died and what exactly happened to Stannis (what went wrong) – he will want answers and purpose, so following Mel and her plans for Jon would be something in the wake of the aftermath of Stannis and Jon. Ghost will follow behind, at a distance – you will have to look twice to notice him in the background.
Cersei – Having a conversation with Uncle Kevan or Qyburn discussing her upcoming trial and the status of the Tyrells and the general situation in KL (for the audience benefit 🙂
Jamie – I don’t think he will hurt Trystane, although he might interrogate him. Jamie knows Myrcella loved Trystane and will give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the opening scene would be either them arriving in KL, or already there with Cersei and Jamie once again talking over the corpse of their child. Cersei of course blaming everyone: Jamie, Tyrion, (all of) Dorne, etc…
Arya – We see her blind in rags and begging on the streets as she navigates around Bravos (showing passage of time, she is getting used to the blindness). The audience will think she has been kicked out of tHoBW.
If not, then I will have to think on it more.
Tyrion / Varys – Will be shown having difficulties with the Harpies and outside threats from the other cities Dany destroyed. Basically, the disappearance of Daenerys will cause a lot of problems. Also, perhaps have some breakouts (or at least show some people with) greyscale. Either show it, or have Tyrion and company talking about it and Tyrion having suspicions about Jorah. Also, someone will have to deal with the other two dragons, maybe a Tyrion scene where he gets a close up view of them locked-up and talks about training 🙂
Daenerys – I think her reputation will proceed her. Not sure how friendly the Dothroki will be, but they obviously won’t hurt her – they will talk, she will impress them and they will join her. It is known.
Jorah / Darrio – They will follow sightings of the Dragon to the area where Dany was last scene and find her ring… yeah … maybe Darrio will find out about Jorah’s greyscale, but I don’t think it will happen so soon. Better to have Tyrion out him.
Sam – Sam and Gilly arrive at his home and meet his family. They will lie and claim the baby is his and ask their permission to keep Gilly and her baby as he can not care for them at the Wall.
Others:
Iron Islands – Yara scene with her Uncle (Euron?) about Balon’s death and Theon’s situation (no male heir to speak of), Uncle obviously taking control and Yara helpless to stop him.
NW – trouble with the Wildings (and maybe some of the other NW brothers) over Jon’s assassination. The NW will either try and contain or massacre the Wildings, or things will be heading in that direction.
Ashara Dayne,
Apparently some years ago (heard this on the radio long since) one of the American (not tabloid) magazines printed some of Queen Victoria’s (the British one) letters to one of her daughters “Keep your peckah up as Papa used to say” apparently caused some raised eyebrows if not hilarity among the readers, though”peckah” in this sense means “spirits” as in “keep your spirits up”. Ending in -er I believe it means part of the male anatomy in the USA (though if I’m wrong I’m sure somebody here will correct me).
Chad Brick,
You are free to have an opinion of course but – and I don’t know if this is intentional – but your many posts to the effect that you are not that impressed with GoT come over as if you are looking down your nose at people who do like it. Can’t people agree to disagree. It is not impossible to like both – well maybe it is for you – but not for everybody. I hate watching football but it doesn’t mean I go round telling people who like to take in a football match that they are missing a few neurons in their brains.
Getting back on topic, I’d like GoT to win a gong or two – or three or four or maybe more – but critics seem to like “Mad Men” – and a lot of shows I haven’t got round to watching yet (and thus can’t judge).
Dame of Mercia,
That just gave me an idea – to go onto football discussions and tell everyone that they’re morons for liking football. What a great way to kill time!
Agreed. I think she absolutely deserves the nom and is unfairly underapreciated as an actress by too many GoT fans. I don’t get when people say she’s “wooden”. I think it’s actually the contrary. She conveys a wide range of emotions very nicely, expressing without overacting. She definitely has some worse moments but she’s a better actor to me than say, Kit, who would fit more the “wooden” label; or Sophie, who gets praised to the skies ’cause she cries, but it’s basically all flash and bang. Not much substance or subtlety to her acting at all, IMO.
So in the end I pretty much agree with the acting noms, although I would’ve put Dillane in over Dinklage.
Alfie Allen doesn’t get a look-in because his character has gone “full retard”.
Not exactly Oscar bait though, was it.
coconut,
So you basically saying that all those people who appreciate sophie’s work are idiots and don’t know the fact that they shouldn’t praise some actress’s performance only for her ability to cry well…
Also we don’t need to bash some actor’s work in order to praise another, all of these nominations belongs to the whole GOT family and we’re all happy for it.
Dame of Mercia,
Yes Mad Men, considering it’s finished there is a good chance that it’ll win the big category but who knows?
So you think X-Men and Mad Max deserve to be nominated as Best Movie in the Academy Awards? I enjoyed them but man, they just pop-corn movies…GoT is (should be!) much better than that…
Regarding the nominations, I really like Louie, Veep, Silicon Valley and Transparent in that order among the Comedies, and among the Dramas, well, I think we are the best of the ones Nominated.
I miss The Americans and Justified though, which I think are better than most of the nominated ones. I guess they don’t like the FX. Could it be because it’s owned by FOX? Honestly asking, without a clue
Yeah, it’s crazy. There’s a real chance GoT will lose in cinematography due to the totally over-the-top 4 nominations. It’d be a real nonsense to lose after almost monopolising the category.
Emilia Clarke is a garbage actor, I’m sorry but this is an absolute joke. Dinklage wasn’t much better this season but that can’t be helped seeing that D & D have completely taken out any complexity he had in ADWD and he is now a whitewashed hero along with Dany. Seriously, it should be Harington, Allen and Dillane up there.
Sean C.,
Headey was nominated last year.
Hodoreo,
ah yes insulting and name-calling when not everyone has the some opinion as me. stay classy my friend
Sergei Walankov,
If his character had gone full retard, he’d be driving home with a truckload of Emmy’s.
At least GoT wont have to be concerned about True Detective this year or any other. That show has shit the proverbial bed.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Fury Road was nominated for Best Picture, actually.
I am only contemptuous of folks like flintwielder, mau, etc who engage in repeated unprompted insults about “book wankers” and the like in every other thread. My contempt for them is reserved for them. You are perfectly free to enjoy S5-style GoT and you are in no way a worse person if you do. For me, this season was vastly inferior to the others, mostly because of the massive plot holes that infected nearly every storyline, and the diminishment or outright character assassination of many characters (Selmy, Stannis, Brienne and the Sand Snakes being prime examples). If that kind of stuff doesn’t bother you, there is nothing wrong with that at all.
That’s an odd thing to say. The most immoral thing Dany has done (in both the books and on TV) was to murder the 163 masters. I don’t see her being “whitewashed”, but rather that the audience is predictably forgiving of killing innocent “others” but not killing innocent “knowns”, like Shireeen.
As much as I utterly despised Stannis’s end this season, it was a valuable lesson in human psychology. Stannis’s sacrifice of Shireen was comparable ethically to Jaime’s murder of Arys, and more ethical than Catelyn’s murder Walder Frey’s wife, Arya’s murder of the random Frey soldier, Dany’s crucifixions of the 163 masters and her feeding of another to a dragon, Tyrion’s murder of Shae, and certainly the murder of Myrcella by the Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. All of the latter were borne of hatred and vengeance, and in most cases resulted (intentionally and/or predictably) in a cycle of violence. Stannis’s sacrifice of Shireen, in contrast, was done in order to save lives and in fact did in hindsight. Yet the audience basically hated Stannis after E09, with many people saying they almost wanted the Boltons to win, because he murdered someone we cared about, rather than someone we didn’t know.
well even experts in GoldDerby.com didn’t expect them to nominate Emilia, so It`s not surprising when everyone baffling about it today.
That said, Because the Emmys are decided by panels viewing sample episodes and not by a straight popular vote, so i`m curious, which episode HBO submitted for Emilia?
RosanaZugey,
Just a thought – perhaps Brienne was not the only want watching for a candle in the tower. Remember the old lady said to Sansa ‘you have many friends’ or words to that effect. I wonder if Northern Lords were also watching, and perhaps are at this moment arriving to meat Sansa and Thorne….
Chad Brick,
I am not sure that you know what insults are. Some people are proud to be book purists. You are not, but your posts have all characteristics of book puritanism.
When you criticize the show, you always have problems with things that are different from the books. I didn’t hear from you any bad comments about GRRM or his writing, his characters, plotting,…
You find problems with D&D, but you are willing to forgive GRRM everything…
You’re even ready to have a very strange comments about Hardhome, episode praised by GRRM also, (Transformers, really?), and the only reason is because D&D made that scene.
ash,
That is interesting actually personally i never thought that she was only talking about brienne we have two interactions between her and sansa and the tone of both scenes are somewhat like there’s more to the whole thing, i think we’ll find out.
Ack, too late to edit! perhaps are at this moment arriving to meat Sansa and Thorne…. should read perhaps are at this moment arriving to meet Sansa and Theon Thats what I get for posting in the wee hours of the morn…
It was propyl autocorrect.
Oh, that’s most definitely possible. I don’t rule it out. Hell, at this point, I’m not ruling anything out. I think the Northern Lords come into play (in a big way) at some point. There’s been too many references to them this past season (Mormont’s letter to Stannis, Lord Cerwyn, the Northern Lords possibily rising up against the Boltons (which is why Roose wanted Ramsay to marry Sansa), “The North Remembers,” “You still have friends in the North,” etc.) for them to not matter in a significant way. However, I think the candle was a Brienne thing as she’s the only one we saw staring at the tower for weeks on end.
I guess the question I’m asking is HOW do the Northern Lords come into play? If you only watch the show and know nothing about any role they play in the books, here’s what you can surmise:
-The Northern Lords are only loyal to House Stark (Lyanna Mormont’s letter)
-The Northern Lords will rally to the side of any Stark (Ramsay: “The Starks have always ruled the North. If they are alive, the country will rally to their side.” (S4))
-The Northern Lords despise House Bolton for being turncloaks and for their cruelty (Ramsay’s story about Lord Cerwyn).
The elements for an uprising are already there. But as of this moment, the Northern Lords haven’t done anything to spur that along, nor do I see the attempt to do so (I honestly thought there would be a “Red Wedding” type of revolt at Sansa and Ramsay’s wedding, but alas, the Northern Lords were no where to be found). I think it will take a Stark to move them to open revolt and since Sansa is the only Stark there, it will be her who rallies them (using the same tactic she used at the Vale).
As a side note, how do the Northern Lords react to LF and the Vale? The Notherners will never allow LF to become “Warden of the North”, and how does Sansa react to LF’s attempt to usurp what is HERS? If Sansa–at any point in this entire damn saga–means to gain control of her life and become an active participant in the world, then it has to come by her being proactive and not reactive. It has to come by her creating her OWN damn plans and using her allies to execute those plans. It is HER name that is powerful in the North, and her PERSON who is valuable. At some point I would *hope* that she realizes that and uses it for her OWN agenda and not someone else’s.
it agree with this. Its like they are just lazy and always nominate the same people for GOT; the only nomination I find ok is Lena.
I don’t know why the general consensus in this fandom think Alfie Allen is some sort of Marlon Brando. The guy isn’t that good of an actor, Iwan Rheon is so good at playing a crazy manipulative person that he makes Allen look good. How is Alfie Allen supposed to act broken if he wasn’t being mind fucked by Iwan Rheons awesome acting?
Where is Anarama Snow????
Rygar,
Who?
mau,
The previous Chad Brick.
So many newbies. Hardly any of the old crew still here….
I was wondering the same thing the other day.
LOL
I have a feeling AS adandoned the show after Sansa’s storyline this season.
Rygar,
Oh, now I remember. She was a hardcore Sansa fan? IT on avatar?
Nymeria Warrior Queen,
I agree completely about the sansa wedding scene. It was elegantly blogged, directed and filmed. It horrified me and disgusted me, but on rewatch i noticed that we dont See the actual rape. I thought we saw everything, but actually it was only a slight close up of sansas face as it starts, and then it was only reeks face-reaction and sansas dreadful moans. It really is a joke how low that episode is rated. That scene was handled in the best possible Way, with respect for the horror, instead of fascination. My top 4 episodes of the season are UUU, and the last three. Ep9, while still probably the weakest of the four due to the anticlimactic dorne stuff, suffered the same undeserved critism because of the shireen-scene. People feel it messes with flow of the characters arc, while they are actually thinking of their book-counterpart. That is what’s at heart of these critisisms, book-readers not being able to distinquish. I feel bad for them, because it messes with their ability to enjoy the show. Luckily most Emmy-voters probably Haven’t read the books.
She probably abandoned the show BEFORE the season even started; when it was confirmed that Sansa would be in Winterfell. Either that, or she’s suffering from complications due to the ulcer/heart attack/stroke this season caused her, and she’s simply unable to comment. 😉 Pity. When she wasn’t being insulting (which was about 90% of the time), I actually enjoyed reading her comments.
I agree they need to spread it around in the future. I don’t watch Empire but it has the ratings, buzz, and reviews that it at least deserved more nominations. And shows like Downton Abbey and House of Cards are way past their shelf life.
Yes, I know. It says that in the comment you’re responding to.
Rygritte,
Or Chicken Oriental in cockney rhyming slang!
Ashara Dayne,
How dare you miss Hobnobs off that biscuit Hall of Fame! Dark chocolate Hobnobs are the Don Daddy!
Being English born and bred, if anyone else wants any other English/British slang translating then let me know! All about giving back to the community!
Alkthough watch this for some ground rules! Must say “could care less” annoys me too!
Damphairintheshowplease!,
That’s exactly how i normally feel about book readers, in so many occasions they simply can’t enjoy the show just because they read the books FIRST, this was exactly the case with sansa’s storyline in season 5, so many of them criticized it and said it was completely against sansa’s character development, putting her back into her season 1 situation and… all of this just because they couldn’t handle the changes.
Anyway she’s my top favorite and i’m utterly thrilled with her season 5 arc, yes it was incredibly painful and the wedding night shattered my heart but it was pure gold drama and also once again it proved that what an incredibly strong character sansa is.
Hopefully we’ll get that storyline by storyline discussion soon enough so we can assess the whole thing properly with readers and non readers alike.
TheTouchOfFrost,
Hahaha well, I think we should keep in mind that colloquialisms aren’t always grammatically correct. Although regarding “herbs” with the silent H and “filet” with the silent T, I think it is worth mentioning that many urban areas (especially New Orleans and the rest of Louisiana) have been heavily influenced by the French for centuries, so that’s probably how pronunciations like that have crept into our dialect.
But you know what the most shocking thing about the American dialect is? The fact that most people DON’T say “y’all.” Much more shocking than the fact that most Britons don’t know the queen 😉
Moonlight,
Uh – Americans do say “y’all”. … Just not in all areas of the country.
Cersei’s Brain,
That’s why I said “most” not all 😉 But really, I was just appealing to common stereotype that nobody in the country can say two sentences without slipping a “y’all” in there somewhere. More or less, it was just a simple joke, my friend.
Thank you for the laugh. Yes, Americans would have found that hilarious, as I just did, and, yes, pecker is slang for Rygar’s favorite word. 🙂
Rygar,
C’mon, that’s not fair to compare Chad with Anarra. Other than the outright trolls, Anarra is, at least imo, the most rude and condescending poster I’ve run across on these boards.
I may not agree with Chad on many things, but he’s capable of having a debate without insulting the people with whom he disagrees.
Moonlight,
It’s ok. Not planning on going this far!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjLrFLYGdPM
Apologies…I’ve been watching a lot of ‘Peep Show’ lately!
Hey we’re originally pretty influenced by the French too…well, the Normans! English was concocted ( and is still evolving) by so many different languages and cultures that it allows for such adapablity and expression which I don’t think you get with any other language. On the flipside, I’m so glad I’m a native speaker as it must be a son of a bitch to learn. When I’m teaching the kids phonics they’re useful to some degree but I think I heard someone say only about 2/3 of words in the English language are spelt phonetically. There’s some things you just have to know! Can any non-native English speakers confirm or deny this theory?
Hodoreo,
I disagree strongly with this. I am very happy Emilia is nominated and I hope she or Lena win.
I’m full of long lists of pretty much useless information too, but it’s easy enough to google.
There are other good vids on YouTube, too, about cultural differences as well as language.
Many pronunciations have changed due to the influence of American TV.
‘Schedule’ is changing. I think here in the UK we say ‘lever’ and ‘private’ with a long vowel but ‘leverage’ and ‘privacy’ with a short one, but I’ve actually forgotten whether Brits say ‘leverage’ as ‘lev’ or ‘leev’. I honestly don’t know.
We say ‘oestrogen’ as ‘ee’ so presumably ‘evolution’ too. But it’s definitely changing.
And ‘advertisement’ is being Americanised. And our use of ‘s’ rather than ‘z’ is apparently a modern British change. And thee and thou were used as a formal ‘you’ like tu and vous in French or du and Sie in German. It just died out, like rules for will and shall.
As for hob-nobs, I only ate biscuits as a child and they invented those later, so I didn’t think of them. Aren’t they a bit like cookies?
I always thought that indicative of Deep South, although I’ve no idea if it’s class-related at all.
Dean Charles Chapman has a lovely cockney accent (which sadly is all but dying out in London as people leave and go to Essex or elsewhere – apparently Jamaican-style is the most common now as white kids see it as cool to speak like their black friends), which includes the double negative meant as a single negative.
He also has the cheeky chappy cockney sparra charm to go with it. Totally unlike Tommen.
Mother’s Mercy for best writing? The Brienne misses the flame part should get them an Emmy for worst writing XD
Yeah, we have words from all over. There was a terrific book written by Jilly Cooper called ‘Class’, which I read on the 80s, all about the British class system. Very funny and very astute.
One of the things she pointed out was that the use of French words was considered vulgar or very lower-middle class. This is odd, considering the Normans won the battle of Hastings and became the new nobility, but she didn’t address that. Maybe they didn’t speak French anyway, being Danish. Anyway, examples: lounge as a room in a house as opposed to hotel etc, toilet, perfume, pardon, serviette.
I think she mentioned ‘U and non-U’ (by Nancy Mitford?) and how certain words were distinctly verboten, such as ‘settee’, ‘handbag’ etc. ridiculous but funny, especially when so many parents tell off their kids for saying ‘what’ and correct them with ‘pardon’.
TheTouchOfFrost,
David Mitchell obviously a Stannis fan! 😉
I went on an editing course recently and we learned lots of nuggets about the massively complicated thing we like to call the English language. Apparently there are 18 different ways of pronouncing “ough” as in dough, enough, borough etc. Also, rates of dyslexia in countries where the large majority of words are pronounced phonetically are practically non-existent compared to the UK (Italian was given as an example of this, any fluent speakers able to confirm?). One of the problems is that it breaks so many of its own rules; a friend said they’d “brung” something into work which is a total abomination, but logically sound. The fact it incorporates so many words from other languages may be a factor in this?
So good work all around to the many people on here who manage to make themselves understood in English if it’s not their native tongue. Those of us who hear it everyday have enough of a struggle ourselves, I don’t envy people using it as a second or third one at all.
Big fan of the US minimal spelling approach tho’, I really envy them that!
Er…trying to say something GoT-related for anyone who’s got this far….Mmmm, this might have been in another thread actually as I’ve just gone through [another of the 18] a few, but for me the reason Shireen’s death stood out more than all the other recent ones was – apart from the fact I really liked her and she could be perceived as one of the very few completely ‘good’ characters – because she was a young child betrayed by the people who were supposed to be her ultimate protectors. I know the actress is about 16 but she looks much younger to me and seemed completely vulnerable and unable to defend herself in any practical way. To me, the teenaged and adult characters would stand at least a chance in a dangerous situation, better able to realise what’s going on and escape from it. But Shireen was just that bit too young and it was her defenders who did it, so a kind of double death whammy with definitely no way out 🙁
Sorry for the length, I do go on a bit! Short version: English language = complicated; Shireen’s death = me weeping into a cat
Ashara Dayne,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English
‘Cack’ is a good inoffensive word for ‘shit’ which usually means ‘rubbish’ describing something’s quality.
The use of “y’all” is common throughout the south, but it is not class-related.
There’s an unfortunate stereotype about people from the south perpetuated by those on the east and west coasts. No, not everyone, but it is far too prevalent. They judge those with southern accents, or who use southern expressions, as uneducated bigots. It’s quite sad. Literally, I know people who are surprised when they realize someone with a southern accent is intelligent/educated.
Ashara Dayne,
I like using “pants” as a silly way to say something is rubbish. Saw a shop in the States called “Pants Corner”, as in trousers, which still makes me giggle now (about 20 years later). I am so easily entertained! That’s another one for serious potential confusion, are we talking about trousers or underwear? 🙂
Lulu’s Mum,
That’s a pretty new one, isn’t it? 90s possibly. Yeah, pants/trousers/knickers/tights. Forgot about clothes. Do Americans ever say trousers?
I also thought ‘Airplane’ was a spoof spelling for the movie, but even ‘aeroplane’ is wrong apparently!
This comes across somewhat in movies/TV. It seems like coastal dwellers consider themselves more sophisticated/cosmopolitan/superior compared with anyone else. I’ve no idea how accurate ‘legally blonde’ is, but east coast seems like ‘old money’ ‘WASP’ types, although the Kennedies live there and they’re Irish. But of course there are all types everywhere.
I’m curious what the general view of various cities is, e.g. You mentioned stereotypes about the south. What about Chicago, Detroit, Seattle, San Francisco, San Diego, Atlanta etc. ?I’ve no clue.
Here in the UK, folks in the West Country (Cornwall, Devon and perhaps Wales) are often stereotypically seen as uneducated sheep-shagging farmers. People from Norfolk can suffer similar derision.
Birmingham is derided for being ugly, Liverpudlians seen as strident, militant thieves. There is a north-south divide. I’ve lived in both and it seems northerners dislike southerners but not really vice versa, it may just be a perception that the media is London-centric (it is).
Scots usually hate the English but try to hide it. Irish really hate the English, but most English are oblivious and uneducated in British/Irish/Scottish history.
Movies such as ‘Braveheart’ don’t help. I think D&D are very pro-Irish and employ a lot of Irish, Scottish and Welsh in the show relative to English when you compare population size.
Go Game of Thrones! Yay! I hope they win everything (They won’t but it is nice to dream).
Ashara Dayne,
Instead of answering here, I thought I’d try and encourage some activity in the forums, especially since, while very interesting, at least to me, it’s pretty off-topic. So, I posted my answer on this thread:
http://watchersonthewall.com/topic/regionl-stereotypes-in-america/
Dammit! I can’t edit in the forums, and I misspelled “regional” in the title to the thread.
Ashara Dayne,
As someone else mentioned above, it’s not class-related. Actually, regarding language, I can’t really think of anything that’s related to status, whether social or otherwise. (This is a really bad example, but if you’ve seen The Blind Side, you’ll notice that Sandra Bullock’s character, who is perceived to be very wealthy, used “y’all” quite a bit lol).The one thing people tend to forget about America is that most of our ancestors came here without any money, and in the beginning, most people were farmers, in both the North and South.
As someone from the Northeast, I can attest that there are a lot of people who are quick to paint Southerners in a negative light, and they to us (although I must stress that this can by no means be said about all Americans, in any region). There are some positive influences up here–for instance, country music is becoming popular all over the country, even in NYC. From what I’ve heard from both people who live here and those that are visiting, the Midwest is supposedly where the friendliest people live.
I’ve heard that England is still quite class-conscious, but I’ve never been there. Is it true?
No more so than we are I think. There are people who think that Americans aren’t but we sure are in many ways
I responded. I am interested to know if you got a notification of the thread being posted to. Good topic btw. 🙂
Generally, yes.
It’s nowhere near as bad as it was, though.
In the general population, people of the same class tend to mix in the same circles and thus are likely pretty oblivious.
The main difference between classes is accent and speech.
Behaviour does enter into it too, though.
I imagine lottery winners might have problems adjusting, as they’re likely much wealthier than friends/family, which could cause problems.
Overall I think people are more accepting of variety than they used to be, at least of people in the public eye.
When the BBC first started, everyone spoke RP, that has changed tremendously.
Actors pre1960s used to take elocution lessons to improve their career prospects, but that would never happen now. Margaret Thatcher famously did. And she married a millionaire, so she did ok out of it.
It’s probably at its worst amongst kids, eg kids at posh private schools at risk of offensive or even violent behaviour from kids from state schools.
Coming from a humble background is no longer something to be ashamed of or embarrassed about and people wouldn’t attempt to hide it as they might have done in the past.
However there are an awful lot of people who will spend way beyond their means trying to achieve higher status, but I think this is just easy credit available to irresponsible people and not really related to class.
I think things are getting worse here with a widening gap between rich and poor, which makes for social dissatisfaction and tension. Not good.
If anyone cares, I’ve moved over the the forum topic Nymeria Warrior Queen started too. This sort of thing fascinates me and I could happily talk to people from all over the world about their lives for hours on end, but it’s waaaaaay off topic from GoT Emmy nominations. Come tell me about yourselves and we can compare notes. Ashara Dayne, please tell me you know what “doing a Joey” is! 😀
Ashara Dayne,
Smeg is a good one too for any Red Dwarf fans out there! 😛
Moonlight,
It’s still there but there is a lot more interaction between the classes. Compared to the caste systems in some Asian countries it’s relatively tame.
Does remind me of Reg talking on HIGNFY that one time (full of vids today!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kg6CTFwOalc
Interesting that Roman distaste for the Celtic look of pale skin and ginger hair is still present in modern culture today! Have we really evolved that much?!
Sorry, no idea!
I’m using an iPhone and not posted on a forum using this before, so I’m unsure what you’re referring to. Can you post a link?
Maybe I’ll start a new thread to encompass this discussion.
Started here:
http://watchersonthewall.com/topic/differences-between-usuk-language-and-culture/
You use purist as an insult, repeatedly, and you darned well know what an insult is. It is irrelevant if someone somewhere uses the same word in a positive context.
As for Hardhome, it was a lot of bang but not a lot of buck. In fact, it was rather plot-holey. Book Hardhome was a logical element of Jon’s downfall – the mission appeared to be a failure and Jon was considering doubling down, to the consternation of many members of the Watch. TV Hardhome was a partial success and most convincingly demonstrated to a large number of witnesses that Jon was absolutely right about the Wilding issue.
The traitors in the book had a lot of (debatable) reasons to assassinate Jon, and Hardhome strengthened one of them. TV Hardhome, in contrast, drastically weakened the only (already weak) argument they had. It made his assassination seem extremely petty and irrational, unlike in the books.
So while TV Hardhome may have looked great and been great as an isolated action scene, in my mind it actually undermined the broader arc of the main character involved. The latter is much more important to me than the former, as I can get even better looking action scenes in an endless supply from mediocre movies like Fury Road. That is not what I am looking for or what I want from GoT.
I’m not using it as an insult, I use it to describe someone. And your reviews of the show contain typical book purist’s behaviour.
I don’t know why you are trying to hide that.
Your comment about Hardhome just proves that, in typical book purist fashion, you are ignoring show context because of book context.
Jon Snow said that he was the first lord commander in history to sacrifice the lives of sworn brothers to save the lives of wildlings.
But you don’t understand that, not because you are stupid, but because you don’t want to understand that, and you don’t want to accept that some event can happen in totally different circumstances.
And still you will deny that you are a book purist?
Because only book purist thinks that NW need PL to kill Jon, that Tyrion needs Tysha to kill Tywin, that Reek needs weirwood tree to become Theon again,…
I’m upset they snubbed Hardhome, but it was the perfect execution of Walk of Punishment that is responsible for the success of Mother’s Mercy.
I never thought I’d want a series I love to lose out on Emmys, but I’d hate it for UUU to win for best direction. The fact it got nominated, along with all the acting nominations(except that of Lena) shows that these awards really do not matter much.
Dinklage is great every time, but Stephen Dillane, Alfie Allen and Kit Harrington did really well, too. And I think Sophie acted better than Emilia, but it could probably be dependent on their own storylines – Dany had to sit and look unimpressed, while Sansa had a lot of intense scenes to portray.
But none of it matters because the Emmys only go for big names. I actually hope that Michael Kelly (Doug Stamper, House of Cards) win best supporting actor this time.
GeekFurious,
Totally agree. If I watched Ep9 climax without knowing the story or caring about Dany or the books, I’d be totally disgusted with the visual effects. It looked cheap, IMO. Hardhome on the other hand, was mind-blowing. But probably they used more visual effects for the dragon than the WW army. The only thing that made the dragon scene exciting for me was the music, and Tyrion’s face.
I deny that there IS anything such as a book purist, let alone a “typical” one. They are a straw-man that you cannot let go of, because you need an easy target to “debate”. That’s why you drop into nearly every thread and start spouting off about them randomly. Every time you feel the urge to type the word “purist” or any synonym, just stop. We will all be better off.
Which is irrelevant. It is not against the Watch Oath to protect wildlings nor sacrifice men of the Watch in attempts to protect civilians, and in protecting the wildings, Jon was protecting the Watch anyway. TV Jon did absolutely nothing wrong, and the TV traitors were absolutely immoral in their actions. Black and white is not good, and the book’s shades of grey were far superior. The white-washing of heroes and the black-washing of “bad” characters is not something a show should be praised for. I would say it is you who is ignoring how TV-Hardhome, along with other changes, switched the context of FTW from one of moral ambiguity to one of moral clarity. To me, the moral ambiguity that underlies ASOIAF is one of its core, defining traits. To remove it is to change the story deeply, even if characters that are kind of the same people are doing kind of the same things some of the time.
This is a first for me – I am quoting myself so that I can correct myself. I hate when I mess up like this. I named the wrong Sand Snake as the one with the scowl. It’s not Nym, it’s Obara that’s the one with the constant scowl. Nym was ok. my apologies
aabe,
Kit Harrington is the worst actor in the show, the only reason the wall scenes are good is the supporting actors around him are really good. Alfie Allen isn’t a good actor, Iwan Rheon is the one making Reek and the audience suffer psychological torture.
Look, I can deny that the sky is blue, but that wouldn’t get me very far, would it? 😉 (Unless we’re on, say, Mars. My denial would be quite reasonable there!)
OT/
Back in the days of Old English the language was perfectly phonetic, provided you know the rules and now disused characters.
Anyone who knows Old English (this 11th century example is probably East Anglian in origin, there were variations even then) knows how this is pronounced
On þyssum geare man halgode þet mynster æt Westmynstre on Cyldamæsse dæg se cyng Eadward forðferde on Twelfts mæsse æfen hine mann bebyrgede on Twelftan mæssedæg innan þære niwa halgodre circean on Westmyntre.
The problem is that the language evolved quickly into Middle and Modern English forms with strong influence from Old Norse and Norman French and the written form never kept up even more so with the “Great Vowel Shift”. E.G. the word knight is phonetic but only to speakers of Middle English and would be pronounced something like kenicht with short i and the ch as in Bach…
And we don’t have something like the L’Académie française to lay down rules. Plus if you attempt to phoneticise it now then whose English do you model it on?
I’m sad that Iain Glen was not nominated. When I rewatched Season Five I thought he was outstanding (along with Peter Dinklage in their scenes together) as the poor, broken yet never-giving-up Jorah Mormont. Comparing his and Peter’s scenes together with those of Nicolas Coster-Waldau and Jerome Flynn made it easy to see just how good Iain Glenn was. He really sold the story. Also amazing this season especially was Lena Headey, even up against the wonderful Diana Rigg. Too bad the entire cast wasn’t nominated for ensemble acting, but I did think those four were the best, followed by Maisie Williams and Alfie Allen.
Find me one person who believes the book should be adapted word for word, scene for scene then. You can’t, because that would be impossible even with unlimited time and budget even if it were desirable. Or are you denying the “typical” part? That’s even further off base, because the people mau et al repeatedly insult have a wide variety of opinions, as anyone reading these or any relevant forums would know.
“Purist” is just a lazy insult for lazy minds, and if you are resorting to it, you are losing. It’s the Godwin’s Law of discussing media adaptations.
And I deny that water is wet.
And this is a typical excuse for a book purist also. I can find a 1000 posts like this on Reddit.
If that make you will better, fine.
jennyofoldstones,
Think that’s a bit unfair on the actors as NCW and Jerome had scraps to work with this season (and I think they pretty much single-handedly made Dorne watchable) whilst Iain and Peter had some really juicy stuff.
Chad Brick,
The irony is Mau is more puritanical than the majority of folks on this site. Anyone who treats their opinion as fact can’t really throw stones at others for being unflexible!
Chad Brick,
I swear this guy is autistic or some crazy stuff. You probably watch too mach cinemasins on youtube and think nitpicking is constructive criticism. Maybe this guy is just one of those intellects who has so many upvotes on reddit he believes his opinions are flawless.
Arya havin’ a larf?,
Aaah the Great Vowel Shift, wasn’t that one of the bigger battles during Robert’s Rebellion? 😉
Can we have that third para in modern English please? I tried and failed miserably to work out what it said and am intrigued. I can guess the Edward and Westminster but probably only ‘cos I am English and aware of important names in our history. I can’t speak Welsh but have seen it written down and some of this reminds me of that, do you know if they are at all related? Or is it just like me as a non-Arabic speaker thinking that some of their written words look very similar, when in fact if I knew anything about it I’d realise they are totally different?
El Witcher,
Using autistic as an insult isn’t cool. Come on now, keep it civil.
Lulu’s Mum,
As opposed to the Great Bowel Shift which was the pre-empting to Tywin’s demise! 😛
TheTouchOfFrost,
I’m sorry but this guy sounds just like my 12 year old brother. every time I try to watch something in the living room he likes to point out nitpicks and stupid shit I don’t care about cause he watches too many youtube videos that make fart jokes about tv or movies and call them bad.
El Witcher,
There’s disagreeing with someone and then there’s resorting to personal insults. The second isn’t welcome. If you find the stuff they’re saying is annoying you then just don’t respond. You are in control of your own destiny!
TheTouchOfFrost,
One time I was very grateful they haven’t invented smell-o-vision yet 😀
EDIT: should that be the pre-emptYing?
El Witcher,
It was a suggestion but you obviously enjoy the conflict that comes with putting people into boxes. I’ll take my own advice and end the conversation here as your mind isn’t open to discussion.
I do insist on you stop using autism as an insult though. It’s pretty disgusting to take the piss out of a disability and comes across as quite childish. Other than that, enjoy your squabbles.
Lulu’s Mum,
Stop being faeces-tious! 😛
Kit Harington NOT NOMINATED for Outstanding Supporting Actor along with Peter Dinklage??????? Are you fucking kidding me?
Hardhome????? For The Watch??????
Congratulations to all the other nominees……24 is quite an honor.
Lulu’s Mum,
The translation isn’t that interesting! It’s the death of Edward the Confessor
“In this year the monastery at Westminster was hallowed on Childermas day (28 December). And king Eadward died on Twelfth-mass eve (5 January) and he was buried on Twelfth-mass day, in the newly hallowed church at Westminster.”
There are no silent letters in OE unlike modern English ( the bane for new learners!). If you heard the original spoken, you wouldn’t really recognise it as English, although some words might sound familiar, more like some sort of German/English combination.
Old English and the older Germanic tongues are on a different linguistic branch to Welsh and the other Celtic languages although they both derive from the same root of Indo-European as do the Romance, Greek and Slavic languages. Any mutual intelligibility is very long lost, although a very few words from a shared root have survive in some similar form like mother or father.
Yes, this, thank you.
Yay! Poop jokes!
It cuts the tension between the book/show person argument.
My input about British slang. I found out that slapper means whore. I thought it was hilarious. The problem is that I can’t use it in America. 🙁
I know that doesn’t help at all. A downvote for me.
Angela,
Oh don’t worry that will no doubt rear it’s ugly head again sooner rather than later!
Slapper isn’t necessarily a prostitute, just a lass who is a little loose shall we say! Other words for the same thing would be tart and slag. These are being increasingly used to describe men too!
Arya havin’ a larf?,
Even looking at the two side by side I can’t work out what most of the words are, but after spotting the “mann”s I found myself saying (well trying to) the early version in a Geordie accent and it somehow seemed to fit. I do like this character ð though.
Is it possible to say roughly when English became a lot more like the version we know now, as in I could probably work out the general meaning, even if not each word? The earliest written English I’m used to is Shakespearean which is easy to follow, although obviously individual words and phrases have changed since then. As that’s around 500 years later, presumably things evolved really slowly and there weren’t any sudden leaps? Ooh this is like school except I want to ask loads of questions and don’t care if I get called a swot 🙂
Lulu’s Mum,
Have you read any Chaucer? When I studied The Canterbury Tales at school our teacher said that this was where the modern form of English (in the literary sense at least) began as before that French and Latin dominated. I’m not sure how accurate a statement that is but I think it must have been somewhere around then and he did have a big influence.
My son is mildly autistic and it’s been described as ‘extreme maleness’ due to the inability to read emotions on people’s faces and lack of theory of mind. Geekiness, as in extreme interest in one or more things, and limited social skills, are defining characteristics. When I invited some friends over, he answered the door and refused to let them in as he didn’t know them. They thought it funny, luckily. It’s a very poorly-understood condition, but many people have traits. It’s a spectrum. Lack of facial expression and body language online may be why there is so much hostility and aggression (along with obvious immaturity and anonymity).
I meant whore/slut. Oh I know those other ones too. I watch a lot of British shows and slapper stood out the most. Yay!
You never know when I will be able to use the word. I am ready. I have an arsenal of unused British slang.
Then please do. Five will be enough to back your boasting.
But it might not be incorrect, at least for many fans that we label “purists.” (I would use other labels for this particular “purist”, too.) My experience with Tolkien fandom has strongly suggested that there are a lot of people with Asperger’s like syndromes, which include (among other things) needing to have things done in very particular ways. What hammered this home was NOT the movies. Instead, it was Tolkien’s writings themselves: in particular, the Histories of Middle-earth series.
For those of you who are not Tolkienistas, Tolkien’s son Christopher published his father’s early drafts of Lord of the Rings and the collections of short stories that became the Silmarillion. Needless to say, some Tolkien fans find this very interesting: they provide real insight into the evolution of the stories, literary themes, etc. However, there also were fans (who, not coincidentally, also were most vocal about hating the films) who hated those books, and who repeatedly stated that they wish that they never had been published and what a horrible person Christopher Tolkien was for doing so. Why? Because they just could not stand to read different versions of Lord of the Rings. They could not stand reading Trotter (a long wandering hobbit who covered burned feet with wooden shoes who leads the Hobbits to Rivendell, and who later evolved into Strider/Aragorn) or Bingo (Bilbo’s rapscallion relation who later was replaced by the more mild Frodo), or having Saruman be a giant who imprisoned Gandalf, etc. These were the sorts who just hated learning that Galadriel was not originally in the Silmarillion stories, or that Gandalf first wrote of her giving strands of hair to Gimli before having her deny the same request to Feanor. Etc., etc.
Beyond that: many of them stated that they just hated knowing that these things were out there! (Of course, few of these fans had actually read HoMe.) These people could not even abide the fact that there are different versions of Lord of the Rings out there: the original ones published in the early-mid 1950’s have a few differences between the final version published 10 years later.
The sad part was that it really seemed to cause these people emotional distress: they just had to have things one way and one way only. That is highly diagnostic of Asperger’s. Moreover, this is one of those types of autism that leaves people otherwise highly functional: yes, they often have poor social skills (another trait common to SciFi/Fantasy fans!) and a lot of other quirks, but they are not “basket cases.” Many people diagnosed with this go on to be quite successful, albeit particularly in fields that do not require much social interaction.
Indeed, I seem to recall that they were doing away with this diagnosis altogether on the recognition that it’s a variety of things and that it represents something of a sliding scale: everybody is Aspergers to some degree about some things; the question is how “bad” are we at this? (As you know, I label myself a purist for the story: I do dislike it when adaptations tell different stories from the original work; and there are times when I see a movie adapted from a book do a perfectly good job of telling a story but walk away disappointed because they opted to tell a different story with the same plot and same characters than did the book. Still, that does not raise my ire near as much as things like the first two Harry Potter films, which failed to tell any story at all!)
I’d agree with that, Chaucer’s text is recognisably English to modern readers even though some words take some working out. Most writing at the time (for official correspondence, reports, Law, the Church) was either in Latin or Norman French which was still the spoken language of the nobility although becoming increasingly Anglicised. In Chaucer’s time there were some distinct dialects of Middle English: Northern, Midlands (east and west) and Southern with another Kentish dialect.
Wimsey,
Although it’s an interesting topic to look into, surely you don’t disagree that using it as an insult on a forum with no evidence whatsoever ( not that having evidence of it would make it any more valid as an insult) is not on? If you think there was any deeper thought , in their post, than wanting to insult someone by claiming they have a condition then I think you may be being a tad naive!
Arya havin’ a larf?,
There’s still hints of them left in regional dialects around Britain. You can move to the next county over and some parts have their own seperate vocabulary for things. It’s a simplified example but the classic ‘bun or cob’ argument that pops up around Britain far too often!
There’s not much left now though of dialects (as opposed to simply accents) which are really hard for speakers of “standard” English to understand because of a very different vocabulary, Lowland Scots and some Yorkshire dialects spring to mind. TV, radio and now the internet is killing them off!
And cob = hazelnut in my part of the world!
Arya havin’ a larf?,
There’s still the odd word or two. For example, around my neck of the woods ( Derbyshire/ Nottinghamshire) it’s rare for anyone coming in from outside the area to know what ‘nesh’ means and why we all call each other ‘duck’! In cities though I think that dialects really are on the brink of extinction or at least are based more around culture than location.
Possibly: or it could be a total lack of tact. At any rate, the odds on my being naive are quite low! (And the particular poster is difficult, to say the least.)
My late father’s side of the family came from Liverpool (well the hinterland thereof) and going by the last time I went up there I wouldn’t say the Liverpuddlian dialect is dying off. The word “duck” is used in Staffordshire too Touch o’ Frost, but then Staffordshire does abut Derbyshire. Some Americanisms are creeping into (British) English I think [as Ashara Dayne already mentioned in an earlier post] – ‘burglarized’ for ‘burgled’ though there are still enough differences to be mutually puzzling. I was talking to a young American lady (who was living in the UK because she had married an Englishman). She had a (to me) generic American accent [translated as I couldn’t tell which part of the USA she came from specifically]. She said she came from Texas – now I expect (probably erroneously) Texans to talk with a drawl [maybe I saw too many cowboy films in my youth] but this lady did not drawl particularly.
Wimsey,
Hopefully being on these forums is acting as a learning experience for them…as it is all of us!
Dame of Mercia,
I’m from Texas, it is a big and very diverse state. Certain areas (small towns, rural) do indeed have drawls, but they differ depending on where in Texas you are – the East is different from the Panhandle, which is difference from the Central, which differs from the coast, etc. Also, there are just as many suburban and urban areas in and near big cities where a noticeable ‘Texas’ accent is not present much, if at all (at least to my ears:)
When I visit my father’s family town in East Texas, I’m from Central Texas – everyone comments and laughs at my funny/cute accent!
viki,
As I say – I probably saw too many cowboy films in my youth (or got the wrong idea from watching ‘Dallas’) where the actors came from places other than Texas. Come to think of it in the film of “Gone with the Wind” – which I don’t think is set in Texas though it is in the south, Vivienne Leigh wasn’t even American.
Sapochnik got the shaft, Hardhome is a masterpiece. I’m happy the show is doing so well but the acclaim that Hardhome deserves really can’t be stated enough. That was the most powerful episode of the entire season, and ranks among the series’ best.
Actually this year is different than any other previous year. GoT is the only nominated Drama series that have been nominated for 3 crucial categories altogether; Acting, Writing and Directing. It is rare that one show wins the big prize without one of these. Its biggest opponent Mad Men doesn’t even have a Directing nod for its finale. House of Cards, Oitnb and Downton Abbey have neither of those(Directing or Writing) Better Call Saul and Homeland only have one.
Casting and Picture Editing nominations are also very important. Not even one Drama has won without Editing nom., and this was the only branch that hasn’t embraced GoT in the past, but this year GoT has claimed two spots from that area. These 5 branches are particularly important, because they are the majority of Emmy voters.
It’s also worth noting that voting system has been completely changed this year. In the past they’ve asked volunteers from voters(not all of them) to the watch the nominated shows submitted episodes in their home. Every show had to submit six episodes from their season and those have been divided into tapes two by two and had been mailed out to the voters. Probably in the past GoT didn’t have a shot because it was too confusing for a casual viewer to understand to following content judging by only two episodes. This year, it won’t be a problem, no one has to watch anything; it’d be more like the Academy Awards. And popularity will help GoT because it is by far the most nominated drama of the year.(Closest ones Mad Men&House of Cards has 11 each.)