Game of Thrones Filming at Castle Black set in Magheramorne

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There’s been a lot of activity amongst our brothers in the North as Season 6 filming continues. The crew has been spotted working in Magheramorne which is notably the set of Castle Black.

 

Additionally, a large crane can be seen on set:

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Also, a fair amount of smoke can be seen billowing from the set which can lead to some speculation of a certain bastard’s fate:

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Some additional photos of the set detailing what may be parts of The Wall and the lift:

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Considering Owen Teale (Alliser Thorne) and Kit Harrington (Jon Snow) have been recently spotted in Belfast, we can only imagine what is happening at Castle Black.

Thanks to Watcher’s reader Ali for the tip and photos! It is always very much appreciated!

What do you think is being filmed in Magheramorne? Let the speculating begin below!

249 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. That “Oxygen Therapy Centre” sign in the 2nd photo might be a clue. To what I’m not exactly sure, but it fuels fire and can help the seriously injured so could be useful on several counts 😉

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    2. miss:
      If D & D have killed Jon for good … No, I’m afraid!
      I boycott the series!

      Well, then see ya.

      Because he’s DEFINITELY dead and not coming back. However, if you want to see Kit still acting in a role on the show, stick around. I think he’s going to be around for a few more seasons.

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    3. SAMs cart,
      Sorry, I was just being silly, which is my normal default mode. The sign I’m talking about is a permanent metal one and nothing to do with the pink GoT ones below it. I was just being a bit surreal and combining the real world with GoT thinking could extra oxygen be useful at Castle Black? It’s how my mind works, just ignore me! 🙁

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    4. It’s going to be interesting to see the reactions of many who think they know the way this story is going. And maybe it is, and you’re right and I’m wrong. But personally, I don’t think the Azor Ahai story is what it seems and things are not going to be as cut and dry as many anticipate.

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    5. Looking at the courtyard of the wall, I can picture the Battle of Castle Black (Season 4:09) The wildings with Ygritte storming in from the south, Jon killing Styr the Thenn, Sam running to the elevator, telling Olly to grab a weapon, which he used to kill Ygritte. Jon holding her as she died. Tormund being defiant, then taking one last bolt from Jon. I can picture the funeral pyres for the dead from the battle; then in Season 5, the pyres for Aemon and the execution of Mance. Melisandre coming through the gates, looking defeated for the first time. And Jon, at the end.

      The set seems small in the picture, but so large when it’s in action. Can’t wait for next season.

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    6. This is OT, but I just checked Gold Derby and apparently a great many experts believe GoT is the frontrunner for Best Drama Series this year – they’re split about 50/50 choosing GoT and Mad Men as their number one pick. Also, less but still some experts are putting Lena Headey as the frontrunner for supporting actress, drama. It would be interesting, and typical of the Emmys I guess, to finally reward GoT for the season many fans think is the weakest (note–I strongly disagree with those fans).

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    7. I do not understand.
      The first week, Kit had long hair (as at the end of season 5)
      The second week, he has a little haircut.
      Why this scene is done now? And why it is in Belfast for 3 weeks? on 28/29 July, he turned to the studio I think.
      OMG I hate D & D!
      And I hate GOT if there is no resurrection!

      Sorry for my english

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    8. It would be devastating if his corpse just burns and turns to ash….

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    9. That’s interesting, did they film for the Wall storyline so early in the past? I don’t remember exactly but I thought they usualy start filming it in October-November.
      The smoke part is also interesting, could it be Meli burnining someone to ressurect Jon, Jon burning or something completely different? Hmm… I need TWOW so bad, I don’t like being in the dark 😛

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    10. Balerion The Cat,

      I am really keeping fingers crossed for some kind of TWOW news this week since George met with his publishers last week. I know that I’m clutching at straws but a girl can dream…..

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    11. Brandon and miss

      They film scenes in a different order to the one they are shown in. Most of the indoor scenes are done in the autumn/winter whereas outdoor things tend to be earlier in the summer, partly to get the weather they need in places like Dubrovnik (King’s Landing outdoor shots).

      Loras’s hair is a good indicator of this as Finn Jones seems to be one of those people whose hair goes noticeably lighter in the sun. In S5 when he’s arrested (outside, round about ep4/5?) he has long, quite blonde hair. In ep 1 (indoors and before his arrest) it’s shorter and a lot darker with no blonde bits. During his scene with the High Sparrow (ep 7 or so? also indoors) which is presumably only a short time after his arrest, it’s about the same length as when he was arrested but with a few inches of dark roots and only the blonde at the ends, the colour difference is quite noticeable. It might look a bit darker indoors anyway due to lighting but presumably not that much? I would guess from that it was filmed in the arrest, interrogation then ep 1 order, with a gap of about 3-4 months between the first two, unless his hair grows unusually fast, and a hair cut in between the latter two, so only dark roots left.

      miss, don’t worry about your English, we can understand you fine and I think “I do not trust” is a very good phrase to apply to D&D, GRRM and the show and books in general! 😀

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    12. Nate updated the post with a few more photos that Ali submitted- similar ones, but hey maybe there’s more info. You all have better eyes than I do. Which reminds me I need new glasses.

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    13. Chris:
      Can anyone make out the people in the first picture?

      Any uniquely familiar faces, figures, clothes?

      Or…wait….was that just an old picture?

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    14. I love it how people are panicking when we don’t know what’s happening,this is going to be the best season yet in terms of unpredictability .

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    15. They stabbed Jon and left him to die in the snow. I doubt they would have the time to give him a proper funeral.

      Especially with the wildlings being present at the wall. Tormund wouldn’t take Jon’s death well seeing as without him the Night’s Watch is free to kill all the wildlings. I think there will be some sort of battle within Castle Black.

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    16. I was at least hoping Jon’s pyre was at the weirwood tree as a gesture to those who were supporting him. We’ll see.

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    17. I had a dream last night that I saw Kit at the store. We both gave each other thumbs up when we walked by. And yes, he still had his hair.

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    18. Careless… you’re all so excited.

      The smoke is billowing from the Wall because Carice is down there. And Carice is smoking hot.

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    19. Can folks chill out on the ‘I want to see Kit naked’ ness!
      You know if the same comments were made about Sophie, Lena or any of the female cast then everyone would be up in arms.

      There are any number of reasons why there may be smoke there…perhaps the crew were having a BBQ?! I guess that that doesn’t fuel people’s fantasies as much though.

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    20. Fire from castle black means NOTHING!
      This could literally be anything… From a nights watch civil war Jon supporters v mutineers, or something…
      But think about it, if Jon is dead, Thorne takes command. And let’s face it, he ain’t gonna give Jon a proper send off. If I had just killed a ‘traitor’ I would not give them funeral rights. His body would be in the dumpster so to speak, so the smoke is most likely NOT his funeral. But we shall see…

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    21. MJ77,

      I agree with you. Tormund and the wildlings will probably wipe out all of the Night’s Watch except the Jon-supporters like Edd.

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    22. Nathan:
      Fire from castle black means NOTHING!
      This could literally be anything… From a nights watch civil war Jon supporters v mutineers, or something…
      But think about it, if Jon is dead, Thorne takes command. And let’s face it, he ain’t gonna give Jon a proper send off. If I had just killed a ‘traitor’ I would not give them funeral rights. His body would be in the dumpster so to speak, so the smoke is most likely NOT his funeral. But we shall see…

      I’de like to see Thorne’s head being ripped off by Tormond and thrown to ghost to swallow whole. Another senarrio that would be acceptable to me being where I’m from, would be to see Tormond drive a large spike into Thorne’s ass so that it would come out his mouth, Vlad Țepeș style!

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    23. What is all this talk of Jon Snow coming out of a fire as something else, Jon is not Dany and not immune that fire.

      In season 1, when he grabbed that lantern to throw at the white walker attacking The Lord commander he burnt his hand so bad that for several episodes after he had to tend to the wound.

      So why are people talking like he can survive and come out of a fire without being burnt?

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    24. Arthur:
      What is all this talk of Jon Snow coming out of a fire as something else, Jon is not Dany and not immune that fire.

      Dany is not immune to fire, either.

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    25. Arthur,

      Neither is Dany. And neither were any other Targs. What Dany did to hatch the eggs was a magical occurrence. She’s been burnt a few times since then.
      Magic could be in play for whatever happens to Jon.

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    26. How the Wildlings, specifically Tormund, will react to Jon’s murder is something I hadn’t really thought about, yet. Now that I’ve thought about it a bit, I can’t wait to see the wrath of Wun-Wun!!!

      Neuf: I have to come here, there are no good sites in French on GOT 🙁

      Well, other than this being a great site, you’ll get to learn all sorts of slang. 🙂
      A belated welcome to the Wall!!!

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    27. mau,

      Didn’t she walk into a huge fire, stay there the whole night, then was found in that fires ashes unburnt?

      Guess I was seeing things…

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    28. Arthur:
      mau,

      Didn’t she walk into a huge fire, stay there the whole night, then was found in that fires ashes unburnt?

      Guess I was seeing things…

      that was just incident, not something usual…

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    29. phantomstrife,

      So her walking into steaming hot water, unburnt. And her picking up a roasted dragons egg, unburnt was the cause of sum, yet to be introduced or explained magic spell?

      I’ll just say I disagree but you can feel free to think that.

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    30. mau: Dany isnot immune to fire, either.

      Show Dany is definitely immune to fire / heat. The bath, the hot egg, the pyre, the house of the undying….

      i know GRRM has said that is not necessarily the case for book Dany, but show Dany certainly appears to be.

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    31. Arthur,

      She’s not fireproof, she’s just more resistant to heat.

      Granny: Do Targaryens become immune to fire once they “bond” to their dragons?

      George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany’s dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn’t immune to that molten gold.

      Revanshe: So she won’t be able to do it again?

      George_RR_Martin: Probably not

      http://web.archive.org/web/20001005212114/eventhorizon.com/sfzine/chats/transcripts/031899.html.

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    32. Ross: Show Dany is definitely immune to fire / heat. The bath, the hot egg, the pyre, the house of the undying….

      What about the house of the undying?

      And abou bath and eggs, she is, just like in the books, more tolerant to fire, but she is not immune.

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    33. Ok so I take back what I said I guess all of us are right about Dany and/or Jon burning in a fire being possible.

      This YouTube video explains it.

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    34. Sorry folks,

      Arguing about the supernatural aspects of GoT can be pointless because they are not based in any reality. All we can do is think of the experiences Dany and Jon have had thus far with fire/heat.

      I guess it would be possible for Jon to be burnt in a funeral fire and arise out of it unburnt as Azor Ahai, I personally hope that is not the case.

      I much rather him warg into Ghost and ally with Bran for a while before somehow slipping his spirit back into Jon Snow’s body.

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    35. My thoughts and opinion on the matter:

      Dany isn’t immune to fire or heat but is VERY highly tolerant of it, lets just say she has the Targaryen gene that rarely shows itself (and we can also pretend this same gene allows a great magical link between her and her dragons).

      And when her resistance level is surpassed she can heal (Wolverine style) from this heat exposer very quickly.

      And just MAYBE, this type of Targaryen trait can somehow (like a light switch) be flicked off and on at different levels of intensity (that would explain the “magic” element).

      So maybe with the case of Jon Snow, in this immensely important moment for him, the light switch was flicked on, and combined with his Stark powers, can transform him into some kind of legendary hero.

      THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

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    36. Arthur:
      Ok so I take back what I said I guess all of us are right about Dany and/or Jon burning in a fire being possible.

      This YouTube video explains it.

      Fire CAN kill a dragon….

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    37. The crane is there to shoot bird’s-eye view of what ever is happening below. Hmmmm, I wonder what that could mean….

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    38. Arthur,

      Jon Snow is too pretty to come back, after some Ghost warging time, into a deteriorating body. :p

      I do love the thought of the crane being used to shoot the bird’s-eye (Bran’s-eye) view of whatever is going on down there!

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    39. Arthur,

      OMG…yes! That makes perfect sense.

      I am so excited too see whatever it is Bran will see, past, present, and/or future, wherever he sees it, not to mention how he sees it…weirnet, warging…

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    40. To me it seems that magic is almost always activated in a person after some great loss, Bran and his crippling fall, Dany and her child birth/ loss, even Arya starting to warg after losing sight. So maybe Jon getting shanked will bring out whatever he needs to survive being burned. Just a hunch…

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    41. FFS second time having to write this as it didn’t post and I certainly didn’t go past the time out this time!

      Dany only appears heat resistant before the dragons have hatched. She has pretty strange physiology anyway as we don’t know whether the child she lost was deformed because of the blood magic flying about or naturally. I think it was just a little quirk they added to create a mystique around her. Plus dragons are magical creatures and indeed a source of magical power so it could easily be explained away that way Wouldn’t quibble over such a minor detail. Confident that she wouldn’t survive a full blow torch from a dragon or a few pots of wildfire being lobbed at her!

      Not sure why there’s such an obsession with wanting all the Starks to warg! It’s part of Bran’s story, if they all do it it makes it less unique and also quite boring to watch. Jon, Arya, Rickon and it’s hinted at Robb have all had wolf dreams and have a dorment warging ability but it’s just a way of creating a connection between them. Bran is the only one able to control it and he’s far from mastering it and regularly struggles not to get lost in Summer. For Jon to warg into Ghost with no practice would be ridiculous and undermime Bran’s whole story. Plus I really don’t want to focus on a CGI wolf for a season! Mel will res him. No more warging is needed!

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    42. kline:
      It’s going to be interesting to see the reactions of many who think they know the way this story is going.

      Hehehe…. together with the actual Season 6 episodes (which I’m anticipating very highly), this is also going to be my other highly anticipated event next year. I am expecting weekly internet meltdowns as looooong-expected outcomes by many readers/watchers may turn out to be completely different, in the absence of books to spell things out clearly to the audience. 😀

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    43. Nymeria Warrior Queen:
      I am so excited too see whatever it is Bran will see, past, present, and/or future, wherever he sees it, not to mention how he sees it…weirnet, warging…

      IF

      LS is in, I have a feeling Bran will see her pulled out of the river by Nymeria or Beric or whoever and revived through flashback and not through Arya warging due to the passage of time.

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    44. TheTouchOfFrost: Bran is the only one able to control it and he’s far from mastering it and regularly struggles not to get lost in Summer. For Jon to warg into Ghost with no practice would be ridiculous and undermime Bran’s whole story. Plus I really don’t want to focus on a CGI wolf for a season! Mel will res him. No more warging is needed!

      This is largely dead on. The Varamyr prologue in Dragons almost certainly was to set up Bran’s story, not Jon’s: if anything, then the prologue tells us that Jon cannot spend a long period as a wolf because: 1) only experienced wargs can quickly jump into animals at will, and, 2) the warg quickly fades into the animal anyway.

      The one Stark for whom I disagree is Arya. GRRM said that he had hung the wolf-pack on the wall for a reason, and given that Arya is one of the main characters in the over-arching story (we still need a word for that!), this will almost certainly be relevant to what her character is like when it counts in Dream.

      Moreover, the fact that they are keeping her Blindness is telling. “Blind Beth” was useful in and of itself for the Crows/Dragons story. However, Winter is a new story. The fact that they are retaining this plot device suggests that there is something else here that will be useful for this year’s story. Arya’s ability to warg is a good contender, as it is not obvious what else she got out of it.

      (Of course, there might be some other plot element that they can see being useful involved: this is another case where not knowing what the story they are trying to tell this year hinders us!)

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    45. Ghost of Summer,

      This is also what I’ve always thought.. It’s also they reason I think varys has some type of magic even tho he says he dispises it. He makes a comment to bed in the show, can’t remember if it’s in book. When talkin to Ned about bran he says it’s a shame him becoming a cripple but while some doors close others open.

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    46. Back on to subject of the article.

      Smoke from castle black….. Could be anything. Don’t forget they don’t shoot scenes in order they are show in each episode. E.g. Some of last seasons scenes from the later episodes may have been shot before some earlier scenes. So the ‘smoke’ could be from any point between episode 1-10 of season 6. So….

      EVERYONE PLEASE DONT READ TO MUCH INTO THIS!!!
      You can start worrying about Jon when:
      1. Show runner or Executive says ‘No Ressurection’
      2. Kit is anything between clean shaven or bald
      3. Tomorrow he is spotted in Vietnam

      Case closed. 🙂

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    47. Oh yeah forgot to say……

      Kit has been in Belfast for almost a month!
      (Minus a short trip to Spain)

      IT DOESNT TAKE THAT LONG TO BE FILMED LYING DOWN DEAD!!!!

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    48. kline: But personally, I don’t think the Azor Ahai story is what it seems and things are not going to be as cut and dry as many anticipate.

      That depends on what you think it seems to be! I think it very improbable that Azor Ahai is going to be some god-like individual with unusual powers. AA will be the right person (or persons: the Dragon has 3 heads, after all) in the right place at the right time.

      In a lot of ways, I think that fans are setting themselves up for the same disappointment that some Harry Potter fans had. Many HP fans were convinced that Harry’s green eyes were going to give him magical powers, or that there was going to be some magical power in his scar. Instead, everything proved to have very “human” powers. Given GRRM’s espoused theory of storytelling, I think that we should expect something similar from for AA.

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    49. Ghost of Summer: To me it seems that magic is almost always activated in a person after some great loss,

      I do not think that it is “magic” per se, but something more general. GRRM likes to have his protagonists go through some catharsis as part of their evolution. In Bran’s case, yes, magic came about because of it. But it also was something that the rest of his family seems capable of doing: Bran’s fall just accelerated things. Jon’s near-death at the end of Dragon’s, Daeny’s near-death at the end of Dragon’s, Arya’s blindness, Tyrion’s killing of his father and subsequent, Jaime’s loss of his hand, Sansa’s marriage to Ramsay (and whatever substitutes for it in Winter) will all lead (or have already led) to different types of evolution.

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    50. phantomstrife,

      GRRM’s Dany and HBO Dany are distinctly different, show Dany not only was impervious to fire, but also scalding hot water and the stone eggs (remember Irri’s hands become severely burned by handling them for a split second, while Dany’s were unharmed and cool to the touch after holding one for 10 secs m.o.l.. Viewers remember these incidents, so now the dynamic of a fire proof Dany is instilled in their thoughts as a truthful characteristic, to suddenly have Dany be less would break that trust between the producers and audience. It would be akin to Superman being invulnerable to bullets and then one day, out of the blue a bullet harms him,

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    51. Barristan Selmy,

      Sounds entirely plausible, and we’ve had Facebook scripts in the past (i.e. last year). Some might block it out mentally just for the LSH hint, but this script has just the right amount of nonsensical D&D plotlines to sound true. (like Olenna leaving the city with Marg still not cleared, Kevan telling Jaime to get his butt to the riverlands just cuz, everything with Daenerys, etc.)

      oh and Cersei is just peachy with Jaime about Myrcella, doesn’t cry and thanks him, lol 😀

      yeah right……..

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    52. Barristan Selmy,

      Interesting! Who knows if it’s real but fun nonetheless. Who is this person and what’s her connection to the show?

      PS you said spoilers for the first three eps but I only saw two. Was there a third link?

      Thanks for finding and posting btw!

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    53. Poniente,

      Holy shit. Looking at the imdb info you linked, I think this is real. The continuity people would get scripts. I think she’s going to be out of a job!

      just checking if I have this right this time!

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    54. Je ne peux pas copier coller pour traduire… J’espère que ça ne dit pas que Jon ne revient pas. Je ne peux pas le supporter

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    55. iridium,

      The spelling of her name is different from the one there on IMDB. And if you actually look up the facebook that those were supposedly posted on they aren’t there.

        Quote  Reply

    56. mieux,

      Barristan Selmy,

      I think my tired brain has finally come to grips with spoiler code, so I’ll answer your question:

      I only saw the first ep summary and part of the second one, and it’s not clear. Mel finds his body, she and Davos take him to her room and she tries to resurrect him with prayer but fails. She asks Davos to do something for her (don’t know what). She summons Olly for…some reason. She claims in a subsequent scene that no one knows who killed Jon, but I think she does. Later, Jon is apparently burnt on a pyre with Tormund, Edd, Alliser and Davos as witnesses. A small charred body is left…

      …making me think she’s killed Olly and somehow done a switch. But that’s where the summary ended so that’s pure speculation.

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    57. iridium,

      I don’t know if it’s real (slightly different spelling as Greenjones says), but I think it would be best if the mods took the pictures down or at least blurred her name just in case it was a slip.

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    58. Holy fucking shit! I read your message, skipped the links and read some more comments, by this time I had a raging throner, then I clicked on the first link, after reading it I felt like I just had a congical visit, then I read the second link and had a thonegasm! I don’t care if it is lagit or not. I’ve been starving for anything new since 2011! I mean I felt like I just found a clean public toilet in Mumbai! Thank you for that friend, if I could give you a cookie, I would!

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    59. If it’s a hoax, it’s good enough for me. They had me at “melisandre uses a glamour to burn Ollie in place of Jon.” Did anyone really want to watch that creepy little dude make murder eyes at people for another whole season?

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    60. iridium,

      If it were real I imagine there’d be links to the facebook page itself. If all we have are these supposed screencaps of something that’s not currently up on the facebook page, we have no reason to believe it. I’ve seen too many fake screencaps of twitter and facebook accounts over the years. Last year’s legit facebook spoilers came from an active account, not screencaps of one.

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    61. Greenjones,

      You’re right of course. I’m laughing at myself because I’m known as a bit of a skeptic/cynic IRL but apparently I lose my bloody mind when it comes to GoT info.

      But regardless –

      Scott,

      – thank you for that effort! It would make a great opening episode, real or no. The Euron intro in particular is perfect, so kudos to the writer.

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    62. Arthur: any isn’t immune to fire or heat but is VERY highly tolerant of it, lets just say she has the Targaryen gene that rarely shows itself (and we can also pretend this same gene allows a great magical link between her and her dragons).

      And when her resistance level is surpassed she can heal (Wolverine style) from this heat exposer very quickly.

      And just MAYBE, this type of Targaryen trait can somehow (like a light switch) be flicked off and on at different levels of intensity (that would explain the “magic” element).

      So maybe with the case of Jon Snow, in this immensely important moment for him, the light switch was flicked on, and combined with his Stark powers, can transform him into some kind of legendary hero.

      THAT WOULD BE AWESOME!

      It does seem as if traumatic events tends to enlighten individuals in the story. Switching on a certain light, does seem like a good description for this type of story. Dany and any Targaryens are obviously not fireproof, but in the show especially it does appear as if Dany has some heat resistance. In the books it also seems as if Ned is somewhat cold resistant.

      But when it comes to a resurrection for Jon, all of the elements for blood magic is already present for him. If Jon is resurrected from a pyre it would be very similar to Dany’s one time special event. Shireen who had King’s blood has already been sacrificed. So it would also be a matter of death paying for life. Melisandre has a prophesy about waking a dragon from stone. It could perhaps refer to Shireen with her greyscale (stonemen), being sacrificed to resurrect Jon, who is a dragon. Or it could just refer to Dany’s dragon who were fossilized at the start.
      Of course technically speaking Melisandre does not need blood magic to resurrect Jon, he could just be resurrected in a similar fashion to Berric Dondarrion.

      TheTouchOfFrost: Not sure why there’s such an obsession with wanting all the Starks to warg! It’s part of Bran’s story, if they all do it it makes it less unique and also quite boring to watch. Jon, Arya, Rickon and it’s hinted at Robb have all had wolf dreams and have a dorment warging ability but it’s just a way of creating a connection between them. Bran is the only one able to control it and he’s far from mastering it and regularly struggles not to get lost in Summer. For Jon to warg into Ghost with no practice would be ridiculous and undermime Bran’s whole story. Plus I really don’t want to focus on a CGI wolf for a season! Mel will res him. No more warging is needed!

      Is being a warg really that special though?

      Of course it is a skill, but we have already seen a few Wildlings that are wargs, and they weren’t even important characters. Warging is a special skill, but it is still a skill that is obtainable if you possess some of the blood of the First Men. Bran’s real skill is being a Greenseer, that is much more special then being a warg.

      That being said it would be completely impractical for Jon to warg into Ghost for long periods in the show. You cant follow someone’s internal dialog on the TV, therefore it would just be a wolf running around. That would not be a good story to follow. They would rather have the actor or real character on screen, and obviously there has been no setup for Jon to warg in the show.

      miss: But what did Kit the last 3 weeks?

      They dont film chronologically, and Kit did stay close to the studio. Kit was obviously filming something these past few weeks since he was spotted with Ben Crompton ( Dolorous Edd), and Carice van Houten (Melisandre) has also been spotted in Belfast.

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    63. Boudica: That being said it would be completely impractical for Jon to warg into Ghost for long periods in the show. You cant follow someone’s internal dialog on the TV, therefore it would just be a wolf running around. That would not be a good story to follow. They would rather have the actor or real character on screen, and obviously there has been no setup for Jon to warg in the show.

      I feel like this can’t be overemphasized. It is so, so, so true. It just wouldn’t work well for TV. Not for long anyway.

      “And the Emmy for Best Actor goes to…
      …Ghost…
      …for the vicious snarl at Aliser Thorne in the sixth season of Game of Thrones!”

      This would never happen.

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    64. Read the supposed leaked info and it sounds plausible. It’s even plotted like a professional script. So, if it is fake, then the person who made it should work in the industry because it’s not laughably bad like 99% of fan fiction.

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    65. chilli: The facebook post is Friends only. That means that Barristan Selmy is friends with her.
      Barristan Selmy, you do realise she will be fired if this is true?

      She’s only got like 30-odd friends, though. Not exactly telling the world. As long as it isn’t reposted as a new post I doubt the powers-that-be will notice the info here. Worst that’ll happen is she’ll unfriend him.

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    66. Supposing those leaks are real…Not having the ruby switcheroo with Mance at the stake would make sense if they planned it for Jon. Keep it a total surprise for the show onlies. If Mel rids us of Olly, she’ll be a hero.
      I don’t like the supposed lack of Ghost. Surely we’d see him in the aftermath of the assassination. And Dany having Dothraki bow to her in such an easy way and so soon? I can’t quite buy that. Then again, Dany is D&D’s darling.

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    67. pntrlqst:
      The continuity supervisor in question actually has a real Facebook and it isn’t “Claire Cushenan.”

      Huh, thanks Vivi.

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    68. GeekFurious:
      Read the supposed leaked info and it sounds plausible. It’s even plotted like a professional script. So, if it is fake, then the person who made it should work in the industry because it’s not laughably bad like 99% of fan fiction.

      I had the same thought. It reads a hell of a lot more realistically than most fakes, regardless of its authenticity.

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    69. Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!): I had the same thought. It reads a hell of a lot more realistically than most fakes, regardless of its authenticity.

      Though, why would a professional person post that info on social media? Even if private? They wouldn’t. So, either it is fake, stolen, or some weird marketing ploy.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!),

      The spoiler trolls have gotten really good. Last year and in the spring before s5 began they came up with some pretty clever things. Still bull though. And though IMDB seems to have bought all of these hook line and sinker, I bet you Sue will figure out what’s BS and what isn’t simply through looking at some of these posters’ IP addresses.

        Quote  Reply

    71. GeekFurious: Though, why would a professional person post that info on social media? Even if private? They wouldn’t. So, either it is fake, stolen, or some weird marketing ploy.

      Aye, I think I agree with you, yeah. It just doesn’t make sense otherwise.

      Greenjones,

      Haha, three cheers for Sue, then. I look forward to it.

        Quote  Reply

    72. It’s best not to trust random spoilers like that. Before the final 8 of Breaking Bad, there was a leak of very detailed summaries of each episode. They didn’t read as bad fanfiction, sounded quite legit, were proven false when the eps aired.
      Better get ready for many ‘s6 leaks’ before April.

        Quote  Reply

    73. The summaries for the first 2 episodes of season 5 also leaked last season well before the season aired, people said they were fake then they turned out to be accurate. These seem legit, sadly it doesn’t look too good for Jon….but I still have hope.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Seems like most people have already forgotten this same thing happened last season. The summaries for the first 2 episodes of season 5 were leaked on Facebook many months before the show aired and it all turned out to be accurate so don’t write this off so quickly.

        Quote  Reply

    75. JamesL,

      Yes, but they will never put Euron in the first scene of S6. They just don’t do that. They didn’t want to put new characters in the first scene of S2,

        Quote  Reply

    76. mau,

      You’re not in the writers room so you don’t know what they would do. They also said they didn’t want to do flashbacks but they changed their mind about that.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Surprised noone has considered dragons. Wasn’t that the main reason for using cranes in season 5? Now there is an enormous crane at the Wall, just in time for drogon to be getting quite enormous.

      I understand why people might assume smoke means resurrection, but considering the crane, it might instead mean a dragon.

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    78. This actually reads pretty well!..if it is a fake,its a damn good fake!I don’t see a troll bothering with as much detail as this..any way I guess we will all just have to wait and see!

        Quote  Reply

    79. mau,

      hmmmm don’t really see it that way….I remember last year when scripts were leaked for season 5 and apart from a few details they were spot on..these could be rough drafts.like I said we will all just have to sit back and wait and see if this pans out

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    80. Wimsey,

      I think the wolf pack will feature in someone’s story somewhere , possibly Arya but I don’t think warging is necessary for that. I think her brief warg into the cat was done to show that the loss of a certain physical ability can trigger it (Bran being the obvious) but I don’t think/hope it won’t be more than that. I think it was also to make the another connection between Arya and cats to attach that to her character as GRRM seems to like to highlight her catness! I think Arya’s warging will be throwaway just like Rickon’s visions. There to show that there is potential in all the Starks but Bran is the one who went that route.

      Boudica,

      Oh I think it’s not uncommon for those north of the wall but it was special for Bran as a “southerner”. I meant more in as him as a character. We’ve shared the journey of him developing and trying to control his powers. Do we really want to do the same thing with another character especially when they already have more interesting and unique things going on in their plot?

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    81. I’ll check it out but this is pretty suspicious and I have severe doubts that this “leak” is in any way legit. And it doesn’t help “Barristan Selmy” seem less like a troll that they’re using a VPN to cover their tracks. And no one named “Claire Cushenan” has ever worked on the show.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Also, not convinced by the leak.
      For starters (if they’ve followed the books) none of Euron’s crew would be talking to him as they don’t have the capacity! 😛
      The rest sounds a bit too fan fictiony. Also, don’t think Sansa would find Brienne that quick especially after they made such a big deal of her abandoning Sansawatch (Like Springwatch but less happens!) to take revenge on Stannis. Some of it sounds like a good direction but other bits not so much. Really rather not see another religion takes over a city plot when we already had one last season.

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    83. awol:
      Surprised noone has considered dragons. Wasn’t that the main reason for using cranes in season 5? Now there is an enormous crane at the Wall, just in time for drogon to be getting quite enormous.

      I considered this, too, but it seems highly unlikely Dragons will be involved with The Wall storyline this season, especially now that the show has been officially extended to 8 seasons. Three-Eyed Raven, on the other hand, promised Bran that he won’t walk, but that he will fly.

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    84. Why would Thorne give Jon the dignity of a NW farewell, like they’ve done for Aemon and other NW? I don’t see Mel having much sway with Thorne either. In other words, no funeral pyre for Jon.
      Need more? Edd’s not amongst friends now, is he? Sam’s gone from CB. Who else is there to offer a case for giving Jon’s body the traditional farewell? Davos has no power over NW decisions. Again, no funeral pyre for Jon.

      Need more? No wildlings were around during the ‘Caesar’ scene.

      There is absolutely no reason for anyone to take Jon’s carcass north of The Wall. (We’re getting into Barbara Cartland territory to think of romantic notions, like Jon joining Ygrette, and being together in any after-llife. Bog wash!) If anything, Jon’s remains would be returned to Winterfell, and since it’s part of NW to leave behind all ties, no reason to do that.

      If anything, a fire causing smoke is just a fire….
      (1) Maybe it’s due to some revenge attack against Mel by Tormund, now that her king is d-d-d-dead? In that, NW would not suddenly stand by her. What is she to them? Nothing.
      (2) It’d be more like an attack on those remaining wearing Black (apart from Edd and few others). How about someone suggesting re-patriation of the wildlings, or something equally as daft?
      (3) Wights set fire to the gate at CB, to gain access. Just one problem. Wights don’t like flames, do they? White Walkers? Who’s seen any holding flaming torches?

      All this seems to come back to someone creating the flames, to fan a fire, to match a puff of smoke…..

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    85. ZappaCreed:
      Why would Thorne give Jon the dignity of a NW farewell, like they’ve done for Aemon and other NW?

      Because otherwise it would seem like he was in on the murder…

        Quote  Reply

    86. TheTouchOfFrost,

      they can always change that. making the crew talk would be batter for TV i think.
      mutes are cool in the books, don’t get me wrong, i like them, but i think it would look kinda silly on-screen. they would just….just stand there, doing….nothing.

      anyway my point. i think we should not hold our breath for a mute crew. that would be a minor thing that they would change.

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    87. Jordan,

      anyone can write that…

      jon is a trator to both the NW and Wildlings( thorne could easly say some wildling was still angry about Mance) and its not like the entire NW took part, only about 10-15.
      whatever will happen, i don’t belive Thorne will start yelling:”i killed Jon Snow!!”

        Quote  Reply

    88. Dame Pasty,

      Sorry! I meant a over-arching story that you get from a series of stories: there is not a word for that. Of course, scifi/fantasy is the one place where this is at all common, and the literary world does not pay any attention to this genre, so I probably wasn’t sleeping through that lecture….

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    89. Boudica: That being said it would be completely impractical for Jon to warg into Ghost for long periods in the show. You cant follow someone’s internal dialog on the TV, therefore it would just be a wolf running around. That would not be a good story to follow. They would rather have the actor or real character on screen, and obviously there has been no setup for Jon to warg in the show.

      This, too, is a very important point that gets forgotten. You can do this once in a while in a short scene (where someone visibly transforms into an animal or into another person), and we see where they are and what they see. However, this is: 1) one-two scene only stuff; and, 2) needs to be done infrequently.

      I remember that some Harry Potter fans were upset by the movies altering a few scenes in which Harry was supposed to be “polyjuiced” into another person. The explanation was the same: in a book, “Harry Potter” denotes Harry Potter, whereas on screen Dan Radcliffe’s face denotes Harry Potter. Here, Kit Harrington’s face denotes Jon Snow. (And when they warg, it’s not “Jon sees X or Y”: instead, it’s “suddenly, X or Y was happening.”)

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    90. Jordan: I don’t think Wildlings know how to read or write…

      As the show has noted more than once before, it is unusual for anyone in Westeros to know how to read or write! If it is uncommon in the 7 Kingdoms, then it must border on unknown north of the Wall. (Moreover, if any do read, then it probably is in the “old tongue”: if they have a written version of their language, then it would be little like the one derived from the Andals and would be like a sign in Chinese for most of us here.)

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    91. My sources got back to me: “Barristan Selmy”‘s linked summaries are as we suspected 100% fake.

      I’m deleting his posts and any links to his caps, and the transcriptions. That trolling garbage has no place here.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Mel: “Olly, you are bad and you should feel bad. But you can help me make it all better.”

      I love it. If D&D aren’t doing this, they missed a huge opportunity.

        Quote  Reply

    93. ZappaCreed,

      I will argue that Thorne has every reason to give Jon a formal NW ceremony: Thorne and the mutineers are just a group of brothers of the Night’s Watch, not all of them. Certainly not those who survived Hardhome (Edd included, obviously). Thorne and the others clearly killed Jon in the dark and when he was alone, and left his body there to be found the next morning. Thus, it will be easy for them to accuse the wildlings of that deed and to have an excuse to break the pact Jon had with the Free Folk. Thorne cannot publicly admit he plotted to get rid of his Lord Commander; he would be beheaded for treason! (Remember, Jon Snow was judged, among other things, for killing another brother of the NW, Qhorin Halfhand). Thus, appearances need to be kept with a formal funeral and a formal pyre to divert any suspicions…

      What ensues after Jon’s funeral will probably chaos… I don’t think they will proceed to burn Jon Snow’s body, actually… but I am almost sure that some kind of formal funeral for the late Lord Commander must be held.

        Quote  Reply

    94. I’m of the siesta: Thorne cannot publicly admit he plotted to get rid of his Lord Commander; he would be beheaded for treason!

      Why not? What Thorne and company did was a coup. They judged that their LC had (in their judgement) become a traitor by helping enemies of the 7 Kingdoms. Because most people in Westeros firmly accept that the Wildlings are an enemy, there would be few that would disagree with them.

      Remember, “nationalists” are always hailed as “patriots” by people who do not want to take the time to think about the issues! (Shout out to Hodor’s Bastard again!) They have a complex issue here: two enemies that are enemies of each other, with one enemy so strong that it will take at least the combined strength of the NW and the Wildlings to fight it off. However, we have another issue: most people do not believe that the 1st enemy is even real, and it is probable that most of the Thorne’s cronies believe that Jon is hugely exaggerating the threat as part of his treason.

      But that’s going to be the problem: it’s a complex issue, and most people cannot handle complex issues. It becomes a W’esque “You are with us or you are against us” dichotomy. GRRM revels in trichotomies in part because most people cannot handle them, and it makes for interesting character dynamics.

      So, nobody is going to think or feel that Thorne did anything wrong until it is much, much too late. (It will be a little different in the books: but, again, there will be a lot of people who will think that Nationalists were completely in the right for executing [not assassinating] Jon.)

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    95. I’m of the siesta,

      At the very least they must dispose of his body in a way it cannot rise again. The Night’s Watch is well aware of that particular need and even (especially) the ones just back from Hardhome will insist upon it. I was hoping for a ceremony in front of the weirwood tree up north, but that doesn’t appear to be in the cards.

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    96. Joseph Nobles: The Night’s Watch is well aware of that particular need and even (especially) the ones just back from Hardhome will insist upon it.

      Ah, but what better way for Thorne & Co. to show that they do not believe a word of that story and flaunt their decision than to not burn the body?

        Quote  Reply

    97. Let’s just have a “write the best fake Episode 1 summary” contest and get all this out of everyone’s systems

        Quote  Reply

    98. Sue the Fury:
      My sources got back to me: “Barristan Selmy”‘s linked summaries are as we suspected 100% fake.

      I’m deleting his posts and any links to his caps, and the transcriptions.That trolling garbage has no place here.

      Fake, but oh so good. Too bad, 7 or 8 months to go, unless GRRM finishes beforehand, as for all these people getting really technical about wildling reading/writing, I don’t think it will much matter, since the sign would disappear if anyone had half a brain.
      The only problem I saw with those leaks was why would Davos help Mel in any way? Plus Mel showed no signs of being interested in Jon, well at least not as much as in the books. So unless they show her seeing something in the flames just before Jon gets shanked then why would she care about him at all? It’s a plot hole in the show if it’s true. In the books she kept getting signs, in the show she just wanted to play hide the salami. Plus there was no keep your wolf close warning, so in the show she doesn’t see his murder. It was just good to read. Entertained me for a little bit.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Mihnea,

      They’d have to change the name of the ship then! I think there’s no need to change that aspect especially not for the corny scene proposed in that fake thing. Euron will have plenty of characters to interact with at Pyke. Hope they keep his crew as they are: Lends more to his character I think.

        Quote  Reply

    100. SAMs cart,

      Sue the Fury,

      Knew it. Didn’t make sense. Thanks Sue. As you say, no place here! I have to say, while on the topic, that I love this forum. People are so kind to one another, they’re also good at debate…bottom line, they’re smart people. I never see someone retorting with rudeness or insensitivity. It’s a nice change from the rest of the internet. Thanx everyone! ????

        Quote  Reply

    101. Dany,

      The summaries I denied were the ones that did actually turn out to be totally false, mostly the ones involving the later episodes of the season. Since this source I’m relying on this time actually is connected to the show, has seen scripts and has never lied to me, I’m going to take their word for it.

        Quote  Reply

    102. Sue the Fury:
      Dany,

      The summaries I denied were the ones that did actually turn out to be totally false, mostly the ones involving the later episodes of the season. Since this source I’m relying on this time actually is connected to the show, has seen scripts and has never lied to me, I’m going to take their word for it.

      I would give 10 years of my life for that. xD

        Quote  Reply

    103. Wimsey,

      But in that case, why not arrest him, pass a sentence and publicly execute him? It could have been done in a much more “legalistic” way…

      I’m not saying you’re wrong… At least in the show (the situation in the books are much more complicated), I have the impression that Thorne would like to keep his hands clean… I might be wrong, of course, but we’ll find out next season…

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    104. Dany:
      Neuf,

      I need the confirmation that he’s really dead!

      Ok je vais écrire en français parce que je n’arrive pas à me faire comprendre en anglais.
      Vous n’avez cas utiliser google traduction !
      Je parle de RÉSURRECTION, je n’ai pas dis “je veux savoir s’il est vivant” mais “je veux savoir s’il REVIENT”

      Et si ils ont été assez stupide pour tuer Jon pour toujours, alors ils peuvent s’enfoncer très profondément la série là ou je pense !

        Quote  Reply

    105. Neuf,

      T’inquiète pas… Jon reviens toujours… 🙂
      Il reviendra, mais il ne sera plus Jon Snow… il sera quelqu’un d’autre…

      So, Jon is dead and he will be bring back to life… that’s almost a given… However, the details of how and when that will happen, only GRRM and the showrunners know.

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    106. Dany,

      Dany:
      Neuf,

      I don’t want him to come back. This would open an exception, and after that, GoT would become a soap opera. I hate soap operas.

      An exception ? And Lady Stoneheart? And Beric Dondarrion? They are the exception?
      Books are soap opera?

        Quote  Reply

    107. Wimsey,

      The problem with that is they have the proof way back in season one. Two bodies got up and attacked the Night’s Watch. They know this. What Alliser’s group doesn’t get (I think) is how bad the problem really is. They think Jon was simply using this oddity to advance his wildling agenda as dreamed up by Mance Rayder.

      In fact, the only scenario I see the Watch NOT burning Jon’s body is if Alliser wants to kill him a second time. I find that far less likely than a burning to be rid of him once and for all. How successful that is remains to be seen. (Though I am a dead-and-goner.)

        Quote  Reply

    108. Dany,

      But the “exception” has already happened: when Thoros of Myr brought Beric Dondarrion back to life not once but six times (S3E5)!

      Bringing back Jon will be nothing new nor an exception.

        Quote  Reply

    109. Neuf,

      No offense but this is an english website and one would expect the comments to be in english,i don’t mean that in a xenophobic way as i am a non native english speaking person myself,but if we want the discussions to be understandable for everyone we need to make an effort to post in english. Not everyone knows french or wants to use google translate everytime they want to read your comments .

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    110. Loooper the Great:
      Neuf,

      No offense but this is an english website and one would expect the comments to be in english,i don’t mean that in a xenophobic way as i am a non native english speaking person myself,but if we want the discussions to be understandable for everyone we need to make an effort to post in english. Not everyone knows french or wants to use google translate everytime they want to read your comments .

      Sorry, that was an exception because I could not make myself understood. I always try to write in English even though it is difficult

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    111. Ghost of Summer,

      Plus Mel showed no signs of being interested in Jon, well at least not as much as in the books. So unless they show her seeing something in the flames just before Jon gets shanked then why would she care about him at all?

      There were multiple scenes last season highlighting her interest in Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    112. Neuf,

      I just gave my opinion. About LS, she returned as a LS, not Cat. I don’t want the Jon that we know to come back. Maybe a WW Jon, for example, or a Night King Jon, would be terrific.

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    113. The only problem I saw with those leaks was why would Davos help Mel in any way?

      The only problem?!

      To recap Season 5 of the show: King’s Landing is a complete gong show overrun by the Faith Militant. The Queen and the Queen Regent face serious charges due to Cersei’s stupidity and ineptitude. Cersei has confessed to fornication, has had all her hair cut off, and walked the streets naked as penance. Kevan Lannister is now running the city, trying to maintain some semblance of order after the mess Cersei has made. Oh, and Cersei now has a Frankenmountain on the Kingsguard. Things are completely and utterly chaotic and upside down. House Lannister is in serious trouble.

      And yet, that fake script has Jaime Lannister coming home after missing all of this, and somehow failing to react to absolutely anything that has occurred in his absence. I *somehow* think that Jaime and Cersei are going to have more to say to each other than, “Sorry Myrcella’s dead” and “It’s OK, you tried.” And that’s just one part of the story. If this person was in charge of script continuity, they should be fired. Lol. But as it stands… fake. As I expected.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Dany,

      How so? In any case, any time Beric Dondarrion has come back, there’s less of him (S3E5). So the same would have to happen to Jon… he will come back, but he will different Jon.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Joseph Nobles: What Alliser’s group doesn’t get (I think) is how bad the problem really is. They think Jon was simply using this oddity to advance his wildling agenda as dreamed up by Mance Rayder.

      But there also is no proof of some Night King raising his arms and bringing thousands of Wildlings back to life at once. It’s not even any proof that this supposed attack on Hardhome happened. In the books, it was similar: Jon’s assassins simply could not get it through their heads that the Others were the real threat and that the Wildlings represented no more than a petty feud. They also could not get it through their heads that Wildlings left north of the Wall were future members of the Undead Army.

      One ineffable trait of humans is the ability to “group-faith” themselves into believing what they want to believe is true. They want to believe that Jon is a traitor, they want to believe that the Wildlings are the real danger and not the White Walkers, etc. If nothing else, then the lie is comforting: if Jon’s story is true, then they are all deeply hosed.

      Dany: I don’t want the Jon that we know to come back. Maybe a WW Jon, for example, or a Night King Jon, would be terrific.

      On the contrary, it would be catastrophically bad. They cannot throw away 5 seasons/4 books of character evolution for Jon by having some completely new entity appear. GRRM and B&W have worked hard to put in so many parallels in the evolution of Jon’s character with that of Daeny and (to lesser degrees) Arya and Tyrion, and the over-arching “story” of the series is going to come from the parallels in how those characters evolved.

      Now, Jon can be altered by this experience, but he should be altered by it primarily from knowing that there are “no-win” situations. He cannot be some arbitrary super-being: he must be a person in key places at key times.

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    116. JamesL:
      Ghost of Summer,

      There were multiple scenes last season highlighting her interest in Jon.

      I respectfully disagree, maybe it’s just that in the book she had all those times seeing in to the fire about him and in the show there were none, maybe it’s just my perspective comparing the two that’s skewing my perception… Anyone else agree with me on that?

        Quote  Reply

    117. Ghost of Summer,

      I can see why you disagree, but she has more of a ‘Sixth sense’ ‘fascination’ attraction to Jon in the TV show, in the books it is very prophetic and more guided attraction to Jon. But in the TV show she is definitely interested in Jon “are you a virgin?” “There is a power in you” she does feel something in Jon plus with all the sexual advances. It seems clear that the show runners at some point will need to explain WHY she is interested in him, and what will come of it.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Ghost of Summer,

      Going back to the post of yours to which JamesL was responding:

      Mel showed no signs of being interested in Jon, well at least not as much as in the books. So unless they show her seeing something in the flames just before Jon gets shanked then why would she care about him at all?

      I certainly agree she has not shown as much interest in him in the show as she does in the books. Not seeing him in the flames being the key part of that. However, she did show some interest in him in the show…saw something in him. For instance, I don’t think she tried to seduce him just because she wanted to get laid, and there were definitely some looks. Again, no, the interest isn’t as acute as it is in the books, but now that she’s abandoned Stannis, she needs to look for someone else to be the one chosen by The Lord of Light, and it seems logical, given the interest she has shown, that would be Jon.

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    119. Nathan and Nym, I agree, with everything you said. I knew the reason for her being up at the wall. I just thinking was really lightly touched upon in the show as opposed to the book. In the book she was still trying to convince herself that Stanis was the one even though all signs were pointing toward Jon. It just feels really kind of (I don’t know how to phrase it) unanticipated that she would just jump on the Jon Snow is AA wagon now that the last guy that I thought was AA is dead. I guess I’ll just chalk it up to book vs. show content.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Kay,

      So true, expect a number of people to complain on ASOIAF forums that it’s all D&Ds fault, anyone who thinks it’s realistic is a show apologist, GRRM would never write such thing and GOT is the worst thing on TV. It’s the attitude of such a small minority which is putting me off posting ovr there.

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    121. Neuf,

      I can appreciate it is difficult sometimes if English is not your first language. I’m learning Spanish and one week the homework was to write a Spanish recipe – I chose to do one using figs and in one part I put “Cocinar los hijos” instead of “Cocinar los higos” e.g. “Cook the boys/sons” instead of “Cook the figs” which was a bit unfortunate….by the way I do not (and have no intention of so doing) harm children.

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    122. I don’t care how it happens, I just want Jon “Kit Harington” Snow or whatever his new name will be, to come back. Yes yes he has been spotted in Belfast for a long time. But you never know with GRRM and D&D.

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    123. Dame Pasty: Arctagonist? Proarconist?

      Upon reflection, I also should have asked that question. It occurs to me that there really is a difference between the protagonists for just a book or two (Ned, Catelyn, Arriane, Quentyn), and those that (probably) are going to be protagonists from beginning to end (Jon, Daeny, Tyrion, Arya and Bran; we might include Sansa, but she basically wasn’t a protagonist in Crows/Dragons, so perhaps not.)

      I nominate Arctagonists. Do we have a second?

      EDIT: I see that Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!) basically nominated it already, so I second it! Arctagonist it is, unless anyone disagrees.

      Dany: I don’t think would be so bad. I really want a Jon villain type.

      Do you really think that throwing away 4 books of character development and character evolution for an arbitrary new construct would not be a bad thing? Jon Snow is an “arctagonist”: the evolution of his character over all 5 or 6 stories is going to be critically important in the Grand Finale (whatever and however that is). Having a new “villain” just appear from nowhere and replace that would be egregiously bad writing by GRRM.

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    124. Wimsey:
      I nominate Arctagonists.Do we have a second?

      EDIT: I see that Jeff O’Connor (JeffZero on some sites!) basically nominated it already, so I second it!Arctagonist it is, unless anyone disagrees.

      Can I disagree? When I skim-read the comment section just now and saw the word, I immediately thought this was a cool word for the protagonist of a specific story arc – hence arctagonist. Like Jon is the arctagonist of the Wall/WW-arc and Sansa for the Vale-arc in season 4 and Gendry is one of the arctagonists of the Riverlands-arc in season 2 …
      For me, to use “arctagonist” for a person who is an overall protagonist (and not just of a specific, limited arc) is counterintuitive.
      (And in any case, if it stands for overARCHing, shouldn’t it be ARCHtagonist?)

      How about series protagonist vs. arc protagonist, or primary and secondary protagonist?

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    125. dee: primary and secondary protagonist?

      I think that primary and secondary protagonists already exist as terms for individual novels, or at least similar terms. For example, in the novel (or film) Atonement, Briony is the primary protagonists whereas Cecelia and Robbie are secondary protagonists. (An “Arc protagonist” would work, however: that just strikes me as dull! 😉 )

      What we have here is something a little different. Part of what GRRM (or Rowling or others who present a series of stories with the same protagonist[s]) is doing is creating a story out of stories, in which the long-term development of a few characters is going to be the “Song of Ice and Fire” that basically transcends any one of the individual stories. It is almost analogous to a colonial animal: each individual has its own organs (akin to each novel in a series having it’s own story, plots and (to some degree) protagonists, supporting characters, incidental characters, etc.), but the colony as a whole is it’s own entity that is more than the X individuals constructing it.

      Those few “archtagonists” (I agree with you about the spelling) are akin to something in common to the whole “colony” or perhaps akin to the segments of the colony devoted to doing things throughout the colonies lifetime (e.g., breeding animals in the colony). However, this also is something that you really do not see much of in literature other than SciFi/Fantasy, so although they really represent a novel literary concept, I’ve never seen anybody distinguish them as such. Well, maybe we should!

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    126. Balerion The Cat,

      I’m going to go out on a limb with a crazy theory that it’s Alliser Thorne and his fellow traitors who will be burning (including Olly)… as a sacrifice to R’hllor (and as a major deterrent for anyone else who might follow in their footsteps) after Jon comes back.

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