Excerpt from James Hibberd’s book delves into the infamous unaired Game of Thrones pilot

White Walkers in "Winter Is Coming"

Much like a car accident off the side of the highway, I am morbidly fascinated by the disastrous original pilot of Game of Thrones. Fortunately for people like me, James Hibberd’s upcoming book, Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon: Game of Thrones and the Untold Story of the Epic Series, will offer a behind-the-scenes look into (among other things) the myriad factors that made that episode un-screenable. Hibberd’s book (which is slated for release on October 6 and already available for preorder on Amazon)  chronicles the Game of Thrones television phenomenon from its inception all the way through to its final season. Entertainment Weekly recently published an excerpt , which is comprised mostly of interview snippets of cast and crew discussing the unaired pilot. And boy, oh boy do their anecdotes make me hope HBO actually does release that pilot one day.

Juicy tidbit highlights include:


Nobody Bent the Knee to King Robert Baratheon!

Mark Addy: “We were trying to establish the rules and order of this new world. In the Winterfell courtyard scene, nobody kneeled when the king arrived in the first pilot. You can’t play being the king. You can’t display “look at how powerful I am.” People have to give you that by showing subservience. It has to be afforded to you by others. In the reshoot, everybody kneeled. It made a huge difference in terms of establishing who’s in charge.”


Joffrey Had a Bowl Cut

Christopher Newman (producer): “Joffrey had a different haircut. In the original pilot, it was more pageboy cut, slightly pudding bowl-ish, like Henry V. It wasn’t that it didn’t suit him being a little shit, but it softened the edge. The modern cut in the version that aired gave him more spitefulness.”


Cersei Looked like Dolly Parton

Lena Headey: “I looked like a Vegas showgirl in the [original] pilot — furs and massive hair, like a medieval Dolly Parton. Not that I’m complaining, I loved it. My hair devolved.”

cerseihair

Heh heh heh. It did indeed.


A Horse Got Aroused Watching Drogo and Daenerys’ Wedding Night. Yes, really.

George R.R. Martin: “So we’re by this little brook. They tied the horses to the trees and there’s a seduction scene by the stream. Jason Momoa and Tamzin are naked and “having sex.” And suddenly the video guy starts to laugh. The silver filly was not a filly at all. It was a colt. And it was getting visibly excited by watching these two humans. There’s this horse in the background with this enormous horse schlong. So that didn’t go well either.”


Rickon Wasn’t In It!

George R.R. Martin: “The biggest thing was Dan and David called me up and had the idea of eliminating Rickon, the youngest of the Stark children, because he didn’t do much in the first book. I said I had important plans for him, so they kept him.”

rickon

*Ahem*


Least Harry Lloyd Could At Least Put a Positive Spin on the Whole Ordeal

Harry Lloyd: “We were very lucky to be given a $10 million-dollar rehearsal.”

viserys

 

103 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. Not gonna lie, I’m kinda dreading this book being released.

      I’m like “Oh yaaaaaaaaaaay. I can’t wait for this book to add even more kindle to the flaming hatred that the Internet spews at D&D every day.” Literally any sentence that pertains to D&D at all, no matter how mundane, ordinary, or innocent, is going to be twisted like a wet wash cloth and weaponized.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Farimer123,

      True, but who cares at this point? This book will give us detailed look into production of Game of Thrones. I want to her the truth. If whingers and stans are going to go mad on twitter who cares.

      They have no power over anything.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Joffrey Had a Bowl Cut

      Christopher Newman (producer): “Joffrey had a different haircut. In the original pilot, it was more pageboy cut, slightly pudding bowl-ish, like Henry V. It wasn’t that it didn’t suit him being a little shit, but it softened the edge. The modern cut in the version that aired gave him more spitefulness.”

      Is that the haircut that Bran and Rickon had? I think it’s the haircut my mum gave me and my sisters when we were little and she didn’t want to deal with long hair.

      If this is what they’re referring to, yeah, I think it would make Joffrey seem more like an irritating, immature teen rather than the monster he was. I also think the actor was 14-15 at the time and may not have suited a teenaged face.

      But I’d still very much like to see 🙂

      Cersei Looked like Dolly Parton

      Lena Headey: “I looked like a Vegas showgirl in the [original] pilot — furs and massive hair, like a medieval Dolly Parton. Not that I’m complaining, I loved it. My hair devolved.”

      And I’d like to see this!! This also almost sounds like 80s Cersei in huge fur coats and teased hair. I think the 80s would suit Cersei, actually…

        Quote  Reply

    4. They’ll release the unaired pilot at some point. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day. There’s too much curiosity to keep it down forever.

      It’s kind of like the performances of the Grateful Dead, The Band, CCR, etc…from the original Woodstock in 1969 that never saw the light of day for many years due to bad performances and contract disputes.

      The performances weren’t up to their standards, but the curiosity over Woodstock eventually created enough of a demand that the performances were made available by the bands themselves.

        Quote  Reply

    5. You can tell where a lot of the original pilot shots were kept in “Winter is Coming”.

      Ned Stark has slicked back hair in some shots, while others it looks more like what we saw during the entire 1st season. The slicked back hair shots are obviously from the unaired pilot.

      Same with the scene with Tyrion and Ros. Tyrion looks like a mushroom with the wig he’s wearing.

      I believe a still image of the original Illyrio Mopatis exists out there too. He’s wearing a crazy big ass hat.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Adrianacandle,

      And I’d like to see this!!

      You may have to wait a bit. 😉

      “The Cage” is the first pilot episode of the American television series Star Trek. It was completed in early 1965 (with a copyright date of 1964). The episode was written by Gene Roddenberry and directed by Robert Butler. It was rejected by NBC in February 1965, and the network ordered another pilot episode, which became “Where No Man Has Gone Before”. Most of the original footage from “The Cage” was later incorporated into the season 1 two-parter episode “The Menagerie” (1966). “The Cage” was first released to the public in VHS in 1986, with a special introduction by Gene Roddenberry, and was not broadcast on television in its complete form until 1988.

      (Emphases added.)

      Each series ultimately became a major game-changer in television entertainment, and each show had the original first episode rejected by their network customer! (“You learn more from failure…”)

        Quote  Reply

    7. Mr Derp,

      You can tell where a lot of the original pilot shots were kept in “Winter is Coming”.

      Thank you for this reminder, of another similarity to Star Trek! Material from the rejected pilot was incorporated into an episode in the first season.

        Quote  Reply

    8. The book seems great!
      However, I really doubt the pilot was that bad. I know the reaction to the pilot was bad, but I wonder how much it had to do with the type of story it was telling (fantasy, medieval drama…). It’s not uncommon to have a somewhat confusing reaction to something new (“it’s hard to see something that has never been there”).
      (For example, when George Lucas previewed Star Wars to his filmmaker friends, most of them thought the film was terrible, and yet it wasn’t – it wasn’t finished yet, but it wasn’t terrible!)
      I mean, some of the scenes from the pilot are in the proper episode (Ned and Robert in the crypts, most of the dinner celebration, the men going to hunt… not sure about Tyrion and Ros though, I think that’s new?), and those scenes are perfectly fine.
      Where there mistakes? Sure. Was it a bit unclear? Sure (but for many people the first episodes of the series were confusing as well!). Was it not epic enough? Sure (but most of season 1 wasn’t epic enough either, barely any establishing shots).
      But I think even if they had produced the final version of the first episode, the first reactions would still not be enthusiastic.

        Quote  Reply

    9. I’m currently just finishing Fire & Blood (after it sat on my shelf for a year) and I still have Kim Renfro’s book to read but I am actually really excited to read this James Hibberd book given how much access he had to the show over the years.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Farimer123:
      Not gonna lie, I’m kinda dreading this book being released.

      I’m like “Oh yaaaaaaaaaaay. I can’t wait for this book to add even more kindle to the flaming hatred that the Internet spews at D&D every day.” Literally any sentence that pertains to D&D at all, no matter how mundane, ordinary, or innocent, is going to be twisted like a wet wash cloth and weaponized.

      I am at the other end of the spectrum in that it offers the potential to have some insight and debunk some of the over top hate which surfaced during the final two seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    11. Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending:
      Mr Derp,

      You can tell where a lot of the original pilot shots were kept in “Winter is Coming”.

      Thank you for this reminder, of another similarity to Star Trek! Material from the rejected pilot was incorporated into an episode in the first season.

      Anytime.

      I think the entire feast scene in “Winter is Coming” was from the original pilot too. Except for the outside shot when Tyrion and Jon are talking. Tyrion no longer has the mushroom wig.

        Quote  Reply

    12. Nobody bowed to Jon either – the King in the North.
      Nobody bowed to queen Daenerys either (except for Theon in Episode 2).
      And they’ve aired that one. So, no worries.

        Quote  Reply

    13. Mr Derp:
      They’ll release the unaired pilot at some point.Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day.There’s too much curiosity to keep it down forever.

      It’s kind of like the performances of the Grateful Dead, The Band, CCR, etc…from the original Woodstock in 1969 that never saw the light of day for many years due to bad performances and contract disputes.

      The performances weren’t up to their standards, but the curiosity over Woodstock eventually created enough of a demand that the performances were made available by the bands themselves.

      If too many people want to know how the unaired pilot was, it will be released. Whatever it is, it won’t change my opinion on Game of Thrones or D&D. The showrunners are equally responsible for their merits and their faults. Furthermore, the unaired pilot isn’t officialy part of Game of Thrones. It’s just a curiosity, even if it is as bad as rumoured.

        Quote  Reply

    14. Tiago,

      I don’t think it would change anyone’s mind, tbh. I think people have already made up their minds one way or the other.

      What D&D did with GoT was unprecedented. There were bound to be learning curves and stumbles along the way. Especially early on when they were just starting out. There really wasn’t a template for this sort of show for D&D to follow either. A poor first pilot is nothing to be ashamed of.

        Quote  Reply

    15. Mr Derp,

      HBO will probably include the pilot in some 10th anniversary special edition or something like that.

      “Ask me again in ten years.” 😉

        Quote  Reply

    16. Mr Derp: I don’t know.When I saw the image of the first Illyrio Mopatis with that gigantic hat on, it looked like full on dumpster fire material:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/6wbgaz/main_spoilers_illyrio_mopatis_circa_unaired_pilot/

      😳
      “Mmph….”
      😄

      Well, that was certainly a look. 😆

      I love Roger Allam, so was very happy to see they recast him as Ilyrio for the small amount that he was in.

      I’m not sure that wearing Tommen’s scalp was a better look than Dolly Parton hair for Cersei, however. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    17. For all the people who complained about the ending, Season Eight, Seven, no Six, actually Five, actually the whole series, no actually D&D are hellspawn sent on earth to destroy “A Song Of Ice And Fire”… think what the show might have been…or that it might not have been at all…

      Some of the stuff sounds funny, some I’d like to see, but some sounds cringeworthy… yikes…we really dodged many bullets here, on the way to getting the wonderful series we ended up with.

      PS I’d like to give a huge thanks to Tim Van Patten, who is an unsung hero of GOT. His direction ofthe first two episodes set the show on the right path. I wish they had called him back for one or more. Not complaining though. We had a stellar roster of directors.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Mr Derp: Anytime.

      I think the entire feast scene in “Winter is Coming” was from the original pilot too.Except for the outside shot when Tyrion and Jon are talking.Tyrion no longer has the mushroom wig.

      Check that. Catelyn Stark was recast, so some of those scenes had to be re-shot.

        Quote  Reply

    19. Jon Snowed,

      That’s true but some media sites will definitely twist it into attacking the showrunners. These two guys could say it was cold that day in site and you will see articles claimed the showrunners don’t understand weather.

        Quote  Reply

    20. Fireblood87:
      Jon Snowed,

      That’s true but some media sites will definitely twist it into attacking the showrunners. These two guys could say it was cold that day in site and you will see articles claimed the showrunners don’t understand weather.

      Dude, every single comment you make is the same thing. Poor D&D, etc…

      Enough with pearl clutching already.

        Quote  Reply

    21. i’m afraid this thread might derail into the first ever internet discussion about D&D’s work. well, it had to come one day.

      it might take some few dozens or even hundreds of comments, because there’s so much untold, unasked and unranted.

      duck and cover meanwhile, and let’s be glad they made Cersei have a Dolly-Parton-like hairdo. Bonnie Tyler would have been an option too, and that would have ended the series by end of pilot.

        Quote  Reply

    22. I am really looking forward to reading this book. I checked my local library website and to my delight they already have it on order. I have reserved it and am first in the queue. 😎

        Quote  Reply

    23. Fireblood87,

      Lol, this is pretty much the response I expected.

      Of course you can say what you want. Or at least, what the mods allow since it’s their site.

      Conversely, I can say what I want too as long as it’s allowed by the mods…and what I said is also true, but the “I do what I want” stuff is for babies. Once you reach 5 years old you shouldn’t need to fall back to that as your excuse anymore.

      When I see the name “FireBlood87”, I know what I’m about to read before I even read it. “Poor D&D this, poor D&D that, some random stranger on the internet wasn’t kind to them, won’t someone please think of the children!, etc…” I got news for you. The Twitter mob is mean and horrible to everyone. Not just D&D. At least D&D have an army of followers who stick up for them on a daily basis, which most regular schmucks like you and me don’t have the benefit of. They will be just fine.

      I would honestly and sincerely love to see you contribute to some of the conversations and articulate your thoughts on the show, but all we seem to get from you is whinging that twitter wasn’t very nice to D&D over and over again like a broken record.

        Quote  Reply

    24. For the avoidance of doubt, the video where I saw the comments moaning and groaning about season 8 GOT albeit under a video about the scrapped GOT pilot wasn’t to do with this site.

        Quote  Reply

    25. Ten Bears:
      Ten Bears,

      … and perhaps more appropriate to the Battle of the Blackwater would be:

      “Green River” – John Fogerty, live – May, 2020

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a8w1ri_TwM

      ——-

      thank you for finally kicking a 52y old to Fogerty. whom i completely missed/ ignored all my life. first thought when he started playing his guitar: hell, the cd i burned of the library’s “Fred McDowell: The First Recordings” is FU, i need a new copy. if a guitar makes me think of McDowell, it’s a good one.
      ok, i’ve been familiar with the song though, from this version:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLMyCRoagB0

      also nice: the bear, the bear and the doggy fair at the fire.

        Quote  Reply

    26. death by chickenfire,

      Lately I’ve been getting into John Fogerty’s old Creedence Clearwater Revival songs from the late 60’s and subsequent solo stuff from the 80’s because he’s been performing those hits from home during quarantine with his daughter and two sons. It’s hard to believe he is 75.

      Here’s a sampling…

      John Fogerty & Family (Fogerty’s Factory)
      NPR – Tiny Desk from home
      Apr. 24, 2020

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qW2139LKN0

      0:00 Centerfield
      5:13 Down on the Corner
      8:06 Long As I Can See the Light
      12:09 Proud Mary

      ——-
      “Have You Ever Seen the Rain” – May 15, 2020

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gY7p1RqXoWU

      There are a whole bunch more on YouTube.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Tiago: I love the Airplane. I like this one equally https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QAF2qF4wHU. Bow to the true mad queen, your Grace Slick.

      Yes. Grace Slick is my Queen.

      Here’s one of my favorite live recordings, from the Jefferson Airplane in 1970.

      “We Can Be Together” – Jefferson Airplane
      live, February, 1970

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e6ht-Oa-Y0

      There’s another video from the same session in which she sings “Somebody to Love” while smoking a cigarette. Classic. 😎

      ✈️

      … And perhaps this is a fortuitous segue to the next Musical Interlude, dedicated to the Viewers of “The Long Night” and Bran nka 3ER?

        Quote  Reply

    28. Mr Derp,

      I have said my thoughts on the show many times and I won’t stop defending them. I know they’re fine but that doesn’t mean I didn’t fine the treatment of them by a big chunk of the fans extremely vile at times.

        Quote  Reply

    29. Mr Derp: I don’t know.When I saw the image of the first Illyrio Mopatis with that gigantic hat on, it looked like full on dumpster fire material:

      https://www.reddit.com/r/gameofthrones/comments/6wbgaz/main_spoilers_illyrio_mopatis_circa_unaired_pilot/

      Wow, thanks for that pic! LOL… I didn’t realize that the original Illyrio Mopatis was Ian McNeice! Completely forgot about that! He was one of my favourites in “ROME” as the public announcer…

      It’s also kinda weird that he was in Syfy’s “Dune” and “Children Of Dune” miniseries and will now be appearing in Denis Villeneuve’s “Dune” as well…

      Here are ten minutes of Ian McNeice as the glorious announcer in “ROME”:

        Quote  Reply

    30. Dame of Mercia,

      I never heard that song by Alvin Cash & The Registers. Thanks for that interlude.

      At first, when I read the title of the song, “Different Strokes for Different Folks,” I thought it was going to be a cover of “Everyday People” by Sly & The Family Stone, which uses the phrase “different strokes, for different folks” in its refrain:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUUhDoCx8zc

      …And different strokes for different folks
      And so on and so on and scooby dooby doo.“

      I’ll have to see whose song came first; if Sly borrowed the phrase from Alvin; or if it was so commonplace that nobody ripped off anyone else.
      (After all, there was a TV show called “Different Strokes”…)

        Quote  Reply

    31. Dame of Mercia,

      ”People, play nice…and for an appropriate musical piece…”

      —————-
      If Maisie Williams’s 2019 rendition of “Let It Go” (from the 2013 movie “Frozen”) isn’t getting the message across, let’s hear from The One True Queen:

      Let It Go” (1980) – Grace Slick
      from solo “Dreams” album

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwnMYZS1hSc

      [Not the same song as “Let It Go” from the movie “Frozen.”]

        Quote  Reply

    32. Tiago: I love the Airplane. I like this one equally [link to “Somebody to Love” at Woodstock, August 1969]

      Bow to the true mad queen, your Grace Slick.

      🕳 🐇

      • Aside from my (admittedly tenuous) excuse to dedicate “White Rabbit” by Jefferson Airplane at Woodstock in 1969 to Rabbit Stew Sally from S4e3 (and S7e1 😥) of Game of Thrones, I did not include the video of “Somebody to Love” from Woodstock because I thought the band “jazzed up” that song a bit too much for my tastes.

      I prefer this live version:

      “Somebody to Love” – Jefferson Airplane live, 1967, at Monterey Pop Festival (0:00 – 2:50)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrLz0w4phXk

      … Also….

      “Somebody to Love” – Jefferson Airplane, live on The Dick Cavett Show August 19, 1969. (If nothing else this video is a well-preserved visual historical record from 51 years ago.)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvlip_CWSAs

      ———————
      ”Bow to the true mad queen, your Grace Slick.“

      Can you believe she’s going to be 81 years old next month (on October 30, 2020)?

      Long May She Reign!

        Quote  Reply

    33. That’s such a shame as Kim was my favourite journalist when it comes to Game of Thrones coverage. I know she did have some balanced criticism of the final two seasons though.

      No doubt James book will have a lot more insight though as he was the only journalist given full behind the scenes access across multiple seasons.

        Quote  Reply

    34. That show is made by our UK Satellite TV provider Sky, I’ve seen it advertised and keep thinking to give it a watch. I do like what Maisie is doing with some of these more off beat, lower key shows/movies (just a shame New Mutants has been hammered).

      Also apologies if anyone has mentioned this already but Kit Harrington in Criminal S2 on Netflix is amazing, would highly recommend it to this community.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Jon Snowed,

      She just says things like she claimed when D&D won an Emmy for season 5 their ego got to them and they didn’t have to listen to anybody. Yes the book in my opinion was a big disappointment.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Is the original catastrophic (so we are told) pilot of GoT still extant or was it cut and sliced to mash some of it in with the episode 1 we actually had? Sorry, I know nothing about the technicalities of film making.

      I hope you are all keeping safe and well in the real world. Pardon me if I have mentioned this before but last week I went into the centre of the town where I live to do some shopping and a young girl had a go at me for wearing a mask. I just cleared away from her ASAP deciding discretion would be the better part of valour.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Dame of Mercia: Pardon me if I have mentioned this before but last week I went into the centre of the town where I live to do some shopping and a young girl had a go at me for wearing a mask. I just cleared away from her ASAP deciding discretion would be the better part of valour.

      She had a go at you for wearing a mask? Jeeze! 🙁 Here, masks are now mandated in retail locations and other spaces, including libraries and transit systems so I have two in constant rotation and I think I should get more to ensure clean mask wearing all the time…

      The makerspace I go to has some really nice ones that are hand embroidered and they go with my coat and most of my tops, which are often some shade of blue 🙂 Buttons sewed onto hairbands to attach the elastics to are absolute ear savers!

      But really… what a crappy thing to have happen to you, Dame of Mercia 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    38. Iul,Danny wasn’t the North’s Qeen in their minds and Sansa wasn’t going to kneel for her. After Jon was crowned King of The North he went south why would the southerners kneel to him.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Ten Bears,

      Thanks for this!! 🙂 I haven’t watched the series yet, it’s on my to-watch list once I finish my detail work on current projects and I can devote more eye time to the screen, but I went to that time code just to see the two scenes to see how close they are

      and the Arya-stabs-the-Night-King vs the bottle-against-head shot

      are very similar!! Great use of a tie-in and a little acknowledgement! 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    40. Fireblood87:
      Iul,Danny wasn’t the North’s Qeen in their minds and Sansa wasn’t going to kneel for her. After Jon was crowned King of The North he went south why would the southerners kneel to him.

      Iul was referring to the comment in the article about how no one kneeled to Robert Baratheon in the pilot, but they decided to change it.

      Nobody Bent the Knee to King Robert Baratheon!

      Mark Addy: “We were trying to establish the rules and order of this new world. In the Winterfell courtyard scene, nobody kneeled when the king arrived in the first pilot. You can’t play being the king. You can’t display “look at how powerful I am.” People have to give you that by showing subservience. It has to be afforded to you by others. In the reshoot, everybody kneeled. It made a huge difference in terms of establishing who’s in charge.”

      Iul was simply saying that other kings weren’t kneeled to, so Iul didn’t think it was necessary to re-do the kneeling scene with Robert. At least, that’s what it sounded like to me.

      I think it was a good decision to kneel to Robert. It helped established Robert as the ultimate authority on the show while he was still king. It set a good precedent moving forward for the importance and power of the throne.

        Quote  Reply

    41. Mr Derp,

      “Winterfell is yours you’re grace!”
      Later in the episode Dany tells Jon that “if she can’t respect me…” So Dany saw Sansa and the North’s disrespect of not kneeling, although Dany was accepted as Queen.
      This context needed a lot of dialog which we did not get. Especially from Jon; he should have taken the lead of the situation and clarify the matter.
      In the last episode, Jon kneels to Bran (should have been Brandon – you don’t shorten king names). But the next line is insulting. ” You were exactly where you were supposed to be”. What? What? Jon Snow deserved something like: “Jon, you shouldn’t kneel to anyone! Arise!”
      Someone forgot that Jon “carried” half the show on his back.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Iul,

      I don’t think that was about the physical act of kneeling so much as it was about Sansa’s snark in the Great Hall about feeding the armies and the dragons.

      The Northerners never really physically kneeled to Jon either (the only exception was Alys Karstark and Ned Umber when they were swearing fealty) and I’m not sure how common physical kneeling was throughout the show. I don’t believe they physically knelt to Robb either.

      In the books, I don’t think there’s a corresponding scene to the show’s courtyard scene. The royal family is introduced from Jon’s POV chapter as they enter the Great Hall one by one to sit at the high table. No kneeling was mentioned in this book passage. The act of kneeling, per the part of the article Mr Derp highlighted, seemed to be utilized as more of a visual cue to the audience to highlight who the king is in this scene while they were establishing all of these many characters to us for the first time.

      Considering these were brand new characters at the time, I’d agree with Mr Derp’s assessment that they probably made the correct choice for the show in having people kneel to Robert to establish him as king and the guy in charge.

      For me, at least, it was pretty hard to keep track of so many characters at once so any visual indication of status was pretty helpful at this time.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Iul,

      There’s a number of things I would’ve liked to see fleshed out more, but it is what it is at this point.

      Personally, I thought more time should’ve been spent on Dany losing Viserion. Those dragon were her children and the show glossed over how she felt about losing Viserion as well as finding out it turned into a wight. But, ya, know, Bran said “there’s no time for that”, so, well, there apparently was no time for that.

      I will never understand the need to rush the final 2 seasons. They felt like a different show than the first 5 seasons. Still a good one, but, different. I don’t know how to articulate it within going through another re-watch. It just felt like there was a certain charm to the show in the first 5 seasons that was missing in the last few. The last couple of seasons felt more like box-checking rather than a journey.

      Having said that, season 6 is still one of my favorites because there’s a lot of action in almost every episode. “Winds of Winter” is probably my second favorite episode in GoT history.

        Quote  Reply

    44. Adrianacandle: She had a go at you for wearing a mask? Jeeze! 🙁 Here, masks are now mandated in retail locations and other spaces, including libraries and transit systems so I have two in constant rotation and I think I should get more to ensure clean mask wearing all the time…

      The makerspace I go to has some really nice ones that are hand embroidered and they go with my coat and most of my tops, which are often some shade of blue 🙂 Buttons sewed onto hairbands to attach the elastics to are absolute ear savers!

      But really… what a crappy thing to have happen to you, Dame of Mercia 🙁

      shortcut:
      2012: face mask? might be a terrorist.
      2020: might wear it in order to protect me.
      MAGA dumbass: i hate both.

        Quote  Reply

    45. death by chickenfire: shortcut:
      2012: face mask? might be a terrorist.
      2020: might wear it in order to protect me.
      MAGA dumbass: i hate both.

      Unfortunately, I have seen these “passes” people are trying to use to exempt them from wearing masks based on having a “medical condition”.

      And these passes often contain spelling errors.

      Makes me worry covid is still going to get worse well before a viable vaccine arrives. I can’t believe people sometimes.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Mr Derp,

      Like when she was crying to Jon in season 7 the same episode The dragon died. she’s not going to breakdown crying in front of Bran and the entire North. I think season 8 was paced better than 7 and didn’t feel rushed to me especially since it was the end of the story. There are so many great moments for me in season 7 and 8 I could make a massive list of moments I loved.

        Quote  Reply

    47. Adrianacandle,

      There is a section of the population that seems to have gone conspiracy theory minded here in the UK during the quarantine. They probably are a minority but they are vocal – they think Covid-19 is a scam. The interaction I mentioned was pretty short. I didn’t exactly pick up my skirts and run but I walked away fast. My mask is homemade – not a thing of beauty but functional but my glasses steam up when I wear it. I may either get or make a spare.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Dame of Mercia: There is a section of the population that seems to have gone a conspiracy theory minded here in the UK during the quarantine. They probably are a minority but they are vocal – they think Covid-19 is a scam. The interaction I mentioned was pretty short. I didn’t exactly pick up my skirts and run but I walked away fast. My mask is homemade – not a thing of beauty but functional but my glasses steam up when I wear it. I may either get or make a spare.

      My best friend has run into such people on Facebook and that was enough to rile her up (and she’s normally pretty mellow) so I can’t imagine what that kind of interaction would be like face to face. Wow 🙁

      I think I’ve sewn all of one mask… I had all these ideas of using my left over cotton to make masks but everytime I sit down at the sewing machine, I’m suddenly exhausted and spending $10 on one seems far more refreshing…

      I’m so lazy X_X

      Yes, I hear the steaming-up-glasses thing is a big pain. I need to wear safety glasses in the wood shop and my breath seems to render them non-functional because I can’t see through the fog… But I just remove them and endure sawdust-coated skin (the sawdust and my sunscreen like each other a lot). I can’t imagine how annoying it’d be to constantly have to fight foggy lenses 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    49. Iul:
      Mr Derp,

      ….In the last episode, Jon kneels to Bran (should have been Brandon – you don’t shorten king names). But the next line is insulting. ” You were exactly where you were supposed to be”. What? What? Jon Snow deserved something like: “Jon, you shouldn’t kneel to anyone! Arise!”
      Someone forgot that Jon “carried” half the show on his back.

      I’m afraid I have to agree with you. Bran nka 3ER 2.0’s hippie-dippy Zen word salad came off as “insulting” – or at least perplexing.

      That line you quoted [Bran replying to Jon], “You were exactly where you were supposed to be,” left me scratching my head.
      (That fatalist mumbo jumbo reminds me of Varys’s justified criticism of Kinvara spouting the line used by religious zealots, “Everything happens for a reason.”)

      And yes, you are right: Jon deserved some recognition of the sacrifices he made for the greater good – while all Bran did was parrot other characters’ catch phrases, and then during the big battle, he sat around and warged birdies.

      (And as for recognition, I’ll assume for the sake of argument that Bran profusely thanked Arya off screen for saving his a** when the NK was seconds away from slicing him in half…)

      In my view, Bran’s ascension to the throne was unearned. If I may borrow your words: “This context needed a lot of dialog which we did not get.”

        Quote  Reply

    50. Fireblood87,

      ”There are so many great moments for me in season 7 and 8 I could make a massive list of moments I loved.”

      Please do. I’d like to see your massive list of the many great moments you loved in seasons 7 and 8. (Seriously. I’m not being facetious.)

        Quote  Reply

    51. Ten Bears,

      And as for recognition, I’ll assume for the sake of argument that Bran profusely thanked Arya off screen for saving his a** when the NK was seconds away from slicing him in half…

      Would that be the very same Arya who walked out in the midst of the victory celebration? Bran didn’t need the powers of the Three-Eyed Raven to know his sister wouldn’t want such recognition. 😉

      The degree to which the plot was driven by the NK, the various 3ERs, and the Lord o’ Light was never explicitly given to the audience, but it was huge. In particular, Bran was *far* more ruthlessly devious than most viewers granted credit, methinks.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending,

      ”…In particular, Bran was *far* more ruthlessly devious than most viewers granted credit, methinks.”

      Yeah, I could run with the Evil Bran theory. It would certainly explain his (in-)actions and uselessness – except if that was all part of a Machiavellian scheme to advance his own selfish agenda.

      “Die for me, so I can be King!”

      My name is Brandon Stark, and I approved this message.

        Quote  Reply

    53. About the title of this post:
      ”Excerpt from James Hibberd’s book delves into the infamous unaired Game of Thrones pilot”….

      I’m more intrigued by the unaired “Blood Moon” prequel pilot.
      With Jane Goldman (“Kick-Ass”) as writer and Naomi Watts as lead actress, I was really looking forward to it.

      The pilot must have been so abominable – completely unsalvageable – that HBO would abort it – and then order an entire season of the HotD prequel sight unseen.

      After all, the original GoT pilot apparently sucked so bad that Benioff and Weiss had to re-do it (and recast Danaerys). Yet they were given a chance by HBO to fix their apparent f*ck-ups.

      Some day I would like to know how a pilot episode featuring Naomi F*cking Watts could have been so awful that HBO suits decided the showrunners didn’t deserve a do-over. I can’t wrap my head around that.

      Or maybe the answer to my own question is the simplest one:

      HBO Corporate Suit: “What’s with all the talking and emoting? Screw this. We want dragons! More dragons! Bigger dragons! Blood Moon blows. Kill it. Green light House of the Dragon!

        Quote  Reply

    54. Ten Bears,

      The pilot must have been so abominable – completely unsalvageable – that HBO would abort it – and then order an entire season of the HotD prequel sight unseen.

      The pilot could have been stellar, for all we know. A series involving the back-story of Westeros, set centuries or more in the past, with no dragons, would be quite a different story than Game of Thrones had been. HBO is a for-profit entity, selling entertainment. Decision-makers there may have thought a “Blood Moon” story would have a more limited appeal than another “tits and dragons” spectacle, like “House of the Dragon” might have.

      Some day I would like to know how a pilot episode featuring Naomi F*cking Watts could have been so awful…

      Putting top talent on-screen doesn’t always a “masterpiece theatre” make…

      Once upon a time, Tim Van Patten, Lee Van Cleef, Demi Moore, and Claude Akins all found themselves lost in this space:

      This “movie” is comprised of two episodes of a short-lived early ’80s action TV show called The Master. It’s about an old Ninja (Van Cleef) and his hot-headed American apprentice (Van Patten) as they travel around in a van (with a pet hamster) looking for the Ninja’s daughter and helping out people in trouble.

      Dr. Clayton Forrester, with his usual snide happiness, informs Joel here, “Do not think for a moment the presence of Gene Hackman and Gregory Peck will in any way lessen your pain.”

      😉

        Quote  Reply

    55. Fireblood87:
      Mr Derp,

      Like when she was crying to Jon in season 7 the same episode The dragon died. she’s not going to breakdown crying in front of Bran and the entire North. I think season 8 was paced better than 7 and didn’t feel rushed to me especially since it was the end of the story. There are so many great moments for me in season 7 and 8 I could make a massive list of moments I loved.

      I actually like the first half of season 8. I wasn’t particularly crazy about the first episode of the season, but I liked episode 2, and “The Long Night” was my favorite episode of the entire season. I like that episode a lot more than some.

      The biggest issues for me started in “Last of the Starks”. I thought it was similar to season 7’s “Eastwatch” in that there was too much content crammed into 1 episode and it muddied everything that came after it. To me, this is where it felt more like box-checking than an organic story. I believe this is where a normal length 10 episode season would’ve helped.

      I’m not going to get into the Dany debate, as that’s been done to death. Even though I wasn’t particularly on board with Dany’s heel turn, I thought “The Bells” was pretty spectacular from a technical perspective. It was exciting.

      I didn’t entirely hate the last episode, but I really did NOT like the dragonpit scene at all.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Ten Bears:
      Fireblood87,

      ”There are so many great moments for me in season 7 and 8 I could make a massive list of moments I loved.”

      Please do. I’d like to see your massive list of the many great moments you loved in seasons 7 and 8. (Seriously. I’m not being facetious.)

      Well, Season Seven begins with a rare “cold open,” and served cold it is, too! Arya takes care of that pesky Frey overpopulation problem. (With bonus points for David Bradley playing Arya! D&D said his performance was the reason they moved that sequence from the middle of the episode to the opening sequence.)

      This episode also has Bran and Meera arriving at The Wall, Jim Broadbent’s first appearance as Archmaester Ebrose, Alys & Ned Karstark pledging fealty, Sam stealing books and learning about dragonglass under Dragonstone.

      Speaking of which, at the end of this episode, we have Dany & Co. arrive at Dragonstone. This may set the series record for number of on-screen minutes with no dialog that is not also an action sequence. Her silent, sombre arrival may look quite a bit different when viewed in the knowledge of what awaits King’s Landing, at the other end of Blackwater Bay.

      That’s all just the first episode of Season Seven!

        Quote  Reply

    57. Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending,

      ”Putting top talent on-screen doesn’t always a “masterpiece theatre” make…”

      True. I remember watching a movie on cable because I saw that it had a big name ensemble cast, including Uma Thurman, Matt Dillon, Timothy Hutton, Lauren Holly, and Mira Sorvino.
      They were okay. Their scenes and storylines were decent enough. Not quite “masterpiece theater” level.

      All of them were blown out of the water by a 13 year old actress who stole the show. Her scenes (with Timothy Hutton) were extraordinary. I’d never seen her before.
      I’ve seen lots of her since: Natalie Portman.

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ten Bears: I’ve seen lots of her since: Natalie Portman.

      I love Natalie Portman! I remember the 2006 SNL rap she did with Andy Samberg — it’s nearly impossible to find now on YouTube but I found a copy on DailyMotion (not the best quality).

      https://dai.ly/xh2efj

      She’s always reminded me of Audrey Hepburn…

        Quote  Reply

    59. Adrianacandle,

      I love Natalie Portman!”

      I’m going to find clips from that movie she made when she was 13. I’m not sure if that was before or after she made “Leon: The Professional” (1994) with Jean Reno.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Ten Bears,

      I’m going to find clips from that movie she made when she was 13. I’m not sure if that was before or after she made “Leon: The Professional” (1994) with Jean Reno.

      Please do whenever you get a chance! I think I only became aware of her in the early 2000s.

      PS. Got your email. Thanks! The downloading process was a little different than I’d anticipated, but I did get it and started watching.

      Oh good! I’m glad it worked!

        Quote  Reply

    61. Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending: Well, Season Seven begins with a rare “cold open,” and served cold it is, too! Arya takes care of that pesky Frey overpopulation problem…

      This episode also has Bran and Meera arriving at The Wall, Jim Broadbent’s first appearance as Archmaester Ebrose, Alys & Ned Karstark pledging fealty, Sam stealing books and learning about dragonglass under Dragonstone.

      Speaking of which, at the end of this episode, we have Dany & Co. arrive at Dragonstone. This may set the series record for number of on-screen minutes with no dialog that is not also an action sequence. Her silent, sombre arrival may look quite a bit different when viewed in the knowledge of what awaits King’s Landing, at the other end of Blackwater Bay.

      That’s all just the first episode of Season Seven!

      Re: Season 7, Episode 1

      • “That pesky Frey overpopulation problem.” 😆

      • I can’t say I was bowled over by Team Dany’s arrival on Dragonstone (which you noted, “may set the series record for number of on-screen minutes with no dialog that is not also an action sequence”). All that screen time capped off with just three words: “Shall we begin?”
      No big deal though. I’m not whinging.

      • About “Jim Broadbent’s first appearance as Archmaester Ebrose”:
      I’m glad you mentioned him. (Another huge casting coup of an A-List actor.)
      I felt Jim Broadbent’s appearance in GoT kind of flew under the radar because he disappeared into his role as Ebrose. In fact, at first I did not even recognize it was Jim Broadbent in that episode. I’m used to seeing him play disheveled, quirky misfits, not the fastidious, articulate archmaester I saw in GoT.
      Hats off to Jim Broadbent!

      • I really liked King Jon’s scene(s) with the Northern Lords in S7e1. (When Lord Robett Chickensh*t Glover, after pledging “I will stand behind Jon Snow, the King in the North!” in S6e10, started bitching and moaning about Jon’s edict to start training all boys – and girls – to fight, I was kind of hoping Jon would administer a Longclaw colonoscopy. However, Lyanna Mormont shut up Glover first.)
      I kind of missed that S7 Jon-as-leader in S8…

      • Last but not least: From my perspective the highlights of S7e1 have to include the long, satisfying sequence of Beric, Thoros, and the cranky new member of their Brotherhood, Sandor Clegane.
      – The Hound’s theological debate/insultfest with Beric was a hoot. (“If He’s so all-powerful why doesn’t he just tell you what the f*ck he wants?”)
      – That the Lord of Light would broadcast crystal clear reconnaissance video to the agnostic Sandor Clegane left me intrigued.
      – And finally, I felt that whole sequence captured Sandor’s guilt and remorse about his role in Rabbit Stew Sally’s death, from his retort to Beric about “divine justice” to the homage to the books’ Gravedigger as Sandor laid the bodies of Sally and her father in the frozen ground and attempted to give a eulogy.
      – Best of all, even though Sandor had apparently taken to heart Beric’s (and Ray’s) advice that it was not too late to still ”help a lot more than you’ve harmed,” I was glad the show didn’t try to turn him into a sanitized goody-two shoes type of character.
      – The former Lannister thug – turned rogue mercenary – turned Warrior of Light was still the same irascible, foul-mouthed, blunt-talking Hound I (we?) had come to know and love. (Which, by the way, made his later momentary reveals of his suppressed decency that much more effective, e.g., “I fought for you, didn’t I?” in S8e2, and his angry-then-tender farewell to Arya in S8e5.)

      So yeah… As demonstrated by S7e1, while there were some aspects of S7 and S8 that I found underwhelming or disjointed, there were so many that I loved and appreciated.
      Thank you for pointing them out.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Adrianacandle,

      Stand by. I’ve got those Natalie Portman movie clips. I may have to post them (6 total, about 2-3 minutes each) in three separate comments to appease the Lord of Light.

      – By way of background, the movie is “Beautiful Girls” (1996), filmed in early 1995 when Natalie Portman was 13 years old.

      [Feel free to ignore the minutiae that follows]

      – The movie was directed by Ted Demme. Its ensemble cast also included: Matt Dillon, Uma Thurman, Noah Emmerich, Annabeth Gish, Lauren Holly, Timothy Hutton, Martha Plimpton, Michael Rapaport, Mira Sorvino, Rosie O’Donnell, Richard Bright, David Arquette, and Pruitt Taylor Vince.
      Lots of recognizable names and faces.

      – FYI: In the clips, there are references to, inter alia: The Wizard of Oz; Winnie the Pooh; Romeo and Juliet; Roman Polanski; and Lou Reed’s “Walk on the Wild Side” from 1972.
      That last one may be obscure after all these years. Here’s a link to that Lou Reed song if you’re curious.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG6fayQBm9w

      – The two clips designated with “✳️“ are what really made me take notice of Natalie Portman. Because I generally wait for movies to come to cable, I did not see “Beautiful Girls” – or Natalie Portman – when it first came out in 1996. (Shallow TB would have ignored it anyway based on the dumb title.) I think I next saw her in “Garden State” (2004) before I ever saw her first (?) film, “Leon: The Professional.”

      – Note/Caveat: Framed against “modern” sensibilities, some scenes in the movie might be viewed as skeevy or inappropriate, e.g., the dynamic between Timothy Hutton and Natalie Portman, or misogynistic, e.g., lots of male characters’ obsession with women’s looks. However, I felt the Hutton-Portman scenes were not distasteful and did not cross the line; and in general the movie was critical of delusional men who remain stuck in perpetual boyhood.
      (The movie starts with Timothy Hutton’s character, a piano player in NYC, returning to his hometown for the first time after several years, ostensibly for his high school reunion. Some of his friends haven’t changed all that much…)

      – While I didn’t (and couldn’t) locate clips of all of Natalie Portman’s scenes, I think the six that I did find ought to suffice.
      I could not find a clip of the final scene in the movie. Her last line in that last scene was priceless:

      A weapons-grade put-down of Michael Rapaport’s character who, upon meeting her, offhandedly asks: “So you’re the neighborhood Lolita?” In any event, I wouldn’t want to give away her snarky retort.

      – As with GoT, the ensemble cast in the movie are involved in separate though sometimes intersecting storylines.
      Also as with GoT, some characters’ separate storylines are more interesting than others, depending on one’s perspectives. For example, I enjoyed

      the Matt Dillon-Lauren Holly-Mira Sorvino love triangle and its resolution.

      Other characters’ scenes

      and speechifying came off as treacly or contrived, e.g., Rosie O’Donnell’s anti-centerfold rant; and Uma Thurman’s interactions with Michael Rapaport and Timothy Hutton.

      .

      – For many of the foregoing reasons, this movie is on my list of films featuring memorable performances in an otherwise middling movie.

      – Oh, one last thing: In the last clip I’m going to post (#6 of 6), Timothy Hutton’s character’s words to young Natalie Portman’s character in 1996 are almost prescient about her real life future trajectory. You’ll see what I mean…

      Since Natalie Portman was the odds-on favorite to win Best Actress Oscar for 2010’s “Black Swan” and Timothy Hutton was a past Oscar winner (Best Supporting Actor for 1980’s “Ordinary People”), the fanservice-adoring amateur awards show producer in me would have
      had Timothy Hutton present the Best Actress Oscar to her in 2011 – accompanied by that clip of their scene from 1996.

      to be continued with embedded links to clips…

        Quote  Reply

    63. Adrianacandle,

      Clips #1 and #2 of 6:
      Natalie Portman in “Beautiful Girls” (1996)

      • #1 Willie (Timothy Hutton) comes home for high school reunion; sees girl next door building a snow man (at 1:19 of 2:31 long clip)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvmZdhoPApE

      —-
      • #2 Marty (Natalie Portman) and Willie introduce themselves; she explains how she got the name “Marty”
      (2:32 long)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4K8M2EVnoKc

      ⛄️

        Quote  Reply

    64. Clips #3 and #4 of 6
      Natalie Portman in “Beautiful Girls” (1996)

      • #3 Inquisitive and perceptive Marty presses Willie on his family and life decisions.
      (0:00 – 1:49 of 3:09 long clip)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcviBnJMvFc

      [Includes Hamlet reference]


      ❓• #4 Drunk Willie talks to his pal (Noah Emmerich): “This girl is going to be amazing.
      (2:35 long)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMIO48oFmHc

      (Note: Not sure if I’ve listed this scene in the right chronological order)

        Quote  Reply

    65. Ten Bears,

      Thank-you for these! Watching the first clip now!

      (And thank-you for all your thoughts on the movie too! I think sometimes, being aware of these caveats before going in can be helpful. I’m going to try and get this movie to watch over the week-end. First clip already gave me major nostalgia from my own childhood which included the mid-90s just from the look of the town.)

        Quote  Reply

    66. Clips #5 and #6 of 6
      Natalie Portman in “Beautiful Girls” (1996)

      ✳️ •#5 Willie, after ice-fishing on frozen lake, spots Marty ice skating with her friends.
      (3:53 long)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYzux5Lmmak

      [Dialogue with Wizard of Oz, Romeo & Juliet, Lou Reed, and Winnie the Pooh references]

      —-
      ✳️ • #6 (After Willie’s girlfriend from NYC Annabeth Gish) has arrived to meet his family and drive back together: Willie looks out his window, sees Marty next door, and calls down to her. “Romeo and Juliet, the dyslexic version.” – Marty)
      (2:32 long clip)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Vam2a4r9vo

      Willie to Marty:

      “I hope we stay in touch, because I hope to learn someday about what you’re doing. Because I think whatever it is, it’s going to be amazing. I really do.”

        Quote  Reply

    67. New info on why Lady Stoneheart never made it to the show:

      https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/the-reason-lady-stoneheart-game-of-thrones-194513041.html

      1. Benioff explained they didn’t want to include the character because of “things coming up in George’s books that we don’t want to spoil.”

      2. The showrunners knew they had Jon Snow’s resurrection coming up and they didn’t want to lessen the impact of that.

      3. They didn’t want to weaken the impact of the Red Wedding, the powerful Season 3 scene where Catelyn Stark was betrayed and killed.

        Quote  Reply

    68. Adrianacandle,

      Don’t worry about earworms. I like Vanessa Williams. A lot. Also, I think her live versions of “Save the Best for Last” are just as good if not better than the 1991 studio version in the music video.

      Here are two live versions:

      • Vanessa Williams, “Save the Best for Last”
      live, Feb. 1993 (at the Grammys)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihKlT73phxQ

      • Vanessa Williams, “Save the Best for Last”
      live, July, 2004(?)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q72H9ajrZDQ

      ——

        Quote  Reply

    69. Adrianacandle,

      No, I’ve never watched “Ugly Betty” though I heard Vanessa Williams was in it.
      I liked her in that Arnold Schwarzenegger movie – I forgot its title — “Eraser”? He is plays an agent with the U.S. Marshal’s Service assigned to safeguard people in the Witness Protection Program – or something like that.
      Vanessa Williams is a government whistleblower he’s trying to protect from assassination.
      It was a popcorn movie – that I enjoyed. Guilty Pleasure…

        Quote  Reply

    70. Ten Bears,

      and Adriana,

      I watched some of ‘Ugly Betty’ though I hadn’t realised the lady who played the baddie was formerly a singer and beauty queen. Actually, the actress who played Betty, America Ferreira, was one of my picks for Arianne if show GoT had adapted Dorne more closely to its book counterpart. America Ferreira is a lot better looking in real life than the character she played though I did find the character of Betty engaging.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Ten Bears,

      I’d suggest you’d give Ugly Betty a try but I know your to-watch list is already quite long… 🙂

      Here’s a clip of Vanessa Williams in Ugly Betty (her character vs. Betty White):

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtyWSEDnie4

      I thought she was great in this series! But I haven’t seen her in Eraser! Ugly Betty was my first time seeing Vanessa Williams as an actress 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    72. Dame of Mercia: I watched some of ‘Ugly Betty’ though I hadn’t realised the lady who played the baddie was formerly a singer and beauty queen. Actually, the actress who played Betty, America Ferreira, was one of my picks for Arianne if show GoT had adapted Dorne more closely to its book counterpart. America Ferreira is a lot better looking in real life than the character she played though I did find the character of Betty engaging.

      I really liked America Ferreira in Ugly Betty and I think she’d be great for the character of Arianne! Even in the Ugly Betty series itself, while they definitely toned down Ferreira’s looks, I don’t think they ever succeeded in making her ugly 😉 I found her more awkward cute in some… interesting… sweaters 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    73. Mr Derp:
      New info on why Lady Stoneheart never made it to the show:

      https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/the-reason-lady-stoneheart-game-of-thrones-194513041.html

      1. Benioff explained they didn’t want to include the character because of “things coming up in George’s books that we don’t want to spoil.”

      2. The showrunners knew they had Jon Snow’s resurrection coming up and they didn’t want to lessen the impact of that.

      3. They didn’t want to weaken the impact of the Red Wedding, the powerful Season 3 scene where Catelyn Stark was betrayed and killed.

      Great catch! I had always figured we never saw LSH in the show because Martin had created a big thematic problem by having a Westeros-borne magical creature south of The Wall. Of course, D&D had more practical reasons, but I’m still glad LSH wasn’t in the show.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Tensor the Mage, Still Loving the Ending: Great catch! I had always figured we never saw LSH in the show because Martin had created a big thematic problem by having a Westeros-borne magical creature south of The Wall. Of course, D&D had more practical reasons, but I’m still glad LSH wasn’t in the show.

      right when i wanted to type “but beric and his 19 rebirths” or “but jon” i realized these guys were not born as magical creatures. they were reborn.

      i finished my second read of the books a few weeks ago. the first was around tv-episodes 5 or 6, and i got lost completely in that sea of additional figures and storylines. having finished the tv-show has helped me seeing things clearer on my second journey through the pages. (as many contributions on this very site have, too.)

      after the first reading i remembered Brienne and Pod hanging (and Pod “dieing”, Brienne POV) being the last Brienne scene of the books. i completely forgot about Brienne having her first “fuck loyalty!” moment when she lures Jamie to LSH. i wonder if more of these moment will follow. i can’t imagine GRRM will continue without Jamie’s switching between pro and against Cersei until the bitter ending for both of them. he gave Jamie’s disappointment and jealousness so much more momentum in the books. Osmund, Lancel and maybe even… he cannot have Jamie killed by LSH.

      btw lady, stone, heart, (…), (…) will surely be the next sequence of words to remember when a sitting president has to apply for the Not-Demented-Nobel-Prize.
      it is also a nice description of what Tyrion finds in the rubble of the Red Keep.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Dame of Mercia,

      I just don’t get what the big deal is. And if you don’t want to, don’t think you have the right to attack people who do. Yikes, glad you are ok

      I read the Hibberd book and really liked it. Some things I knew but most of the cast and crew reactions were new to me. There were some scenes I wish he talked about, like the incredible end of ep 6 with Daenys and others starting their sail to Westorous, or more about the dragons and wish he got answers to other bits (like why there was no reaction from anyone in town after the sept blew up) but what he did include was really interesting; Its now pushing me to rewatch the show, its been since the last episode that Ive done that.

        Quote  Reply

    76. I have bought Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon this week and also have Kim Renfro’s book which released here in the UK this summer. The other book I have is the Ice Dragon, which book would people recommend first? I’ll probably start on it next month once I’m finished with my current book.

        Quote  Reply

    77. ash,

      Oh the young lass who got in my face about the mask. Yes, I’m okay though in that instance I decided avoiding conflict would be the best action.

        Quote  Reply

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