Four New Cast Members Announced for House of the Dragon!

HOTD cast

With the TCA press events happening this week, it was a safe bet we’d get a tidbit or two about House of the Dragon and the other potential new prequel/spinoffs, but HBO has done much better than that today!

HBO’s new House of the Dragon page at the official site went up today, with info about previously announced cast members- and four new cast and character names!

The new additions are:

Steve Toussaint as Lord Corlys Velaryon aka “The Sea Snake.” The lord of House Velaryon, a Valyrian bloodline as old as House Targaryen, “The Sea Snake,” is the most famed nautical adventurer in the history of Westeros. He built his house into a powerful seat that is even richer than the Lannisters and that claims the largest navy in the world.

Eve Best as Princess Rhaenys Velaryon. A dragonrider and wife to Lord Corlys Velaryon, “The Queen Who Never Was” was passed over as heir to the throne at the Great Council because the realm favored her cousin, Viserys, simply for being male.

Rhys Ifans as Otto Hightower, the Hand of the King, who loyally and faithfully serves both his king and his realm. As the Hand sees it, the greatest threat to the realm is the king’s brother, Daemon, and his position as heir to the throne.

Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.

The official page also confirmed that Game of Thrones composer Ramin Djawadi will score the new series.

An exciting day! Fans have been dyinng to find out who will be playing Corlys the Sea Snake. Personally I’m a huge fan of Rhys Ifans so I’m thrilled to see him join the cast as Hightower.

What do we think of how the cast is shaping up so far, Watchers?

201 responses

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    1. I’ve only ever heard of Rhys Evans and am confident he will do well, the two ladies look well cast but the Sea Snake looks nothing like how he’s described in the book. I don’t only mean skin colour but I visualise him more as a rough, almost skinny, well chiselled/almost worn character and this guy looks very different – big powerful, good looking etc. so the casting here feels very strange.

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    2. Exciting!!! I don’t know much about any of these actors but hungry for any and all announcements!

      I’m a little curious as to why the descriptions depict Daemon and not Rhaenyra as heir- do I have my in world history right? Wasn’t Viserys announcing Rhaenyra when she was pretty young and naming her Princess of Dragonstone while Daemon was off being King of the Stepstones or whatever? Maybe the timeline of the show will start before/around Rhaenyra’s birth and then fast-forward?? Maybe they will simplify everything? The website also states Daemon is heir. I sort had the in-world impression Daemon thought he was behind Rhaenyra in the succession- hence his constant attempts to ingratiate himself to her and/or marry her..

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    3. Jaime’s girl: ’m a little curious as to why the descriptions depict Daemon and not Rhaenyra as heir- do I have my in world history right? Wasn’t Viserys announcing Rhaenyra when she was pretty young and naming her Princess of Dragonstone while Daemon was off being King of the Stepstones or whatever? Maybe the timeline of the show will start before/around Rhaenyra’s birth and then fast-forward?? Maybe they will simplify everything? The website also states Daemon is heir. I sort had the in-world impression Daemon thought he was behind Rhaenyra in the succession- hence his constant attempts to ingratiate himself to her and/or marry her..

      Daemon was initially Viserys’s heir. Otto Hightower, Alicent’s father, pushed Viserys to defy the precedent set by the Great Council and remove Daemon from the line of succession to make Rhaenyra his heir but Viserys refused. He was still hopeful his wife Aemma could give him a son. Aemma became pregnant but she died birthing their son and their son died shortly after. When Daemon made some ill-advised drunken comments mocking Viserys’s dead wife and son, a grieving Viserys became enraged and decided Rhaenyra would be his heir.

      So I wonder if this means they’ll be starting early-on, while Rhaenyra is still a child, Queen Aemma is still alive, Alicent is a young teen, etc.?

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    4. ”Personally I’m a huge fan of Rhys Ifans so I’m thrilled to see him join the cast as Hightower.

      What do we think of how the cast is shaping up so far, Watchers?”

      Delighted!!!
      I too have been a fan of Rhys Ifans, especially after his turn as Hugh Grant’s oddball roommate Spike in “Notting Hill” (1999).
      Two clips of Rhys Ifans from that movie follow:
      • (1) Spike can’t believe there’s a world-famous actress in his bathtub.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbFUeP5VC4
      • (2) ⚠️ Spoiler Alert (scene near the end)*
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPI1qu9bE4

      * Six Degrees of Game of Thrones:
      at 0:23 – Lord Glover (Tim McInnerny)

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    5. Ten Bears,

      Almost forgot…

      ”Rhys Ifans as Otto Hightower, the Hand of the King, who loyally and faithfully serves both his king and his realm…”

      So he’s going to be playing Alicent’s dad. Now I am definitely all-in for Team Green. 💚

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    6. Ten Bears,

      As soon as you said this:

      I too have been a fan of Rhys Ifans, especially after his turn as Hugh Grant’s oddball roommate Spike in “Notting Hill” (1999).

      I had a feeling about this:

      So he’s going to be playing Alicent’s dad. Now I am definitely all-in for Team Green. 💚

      Team Green is looking pretty good!

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    7. Sonoya Mizuno played the lead in the Alex Garland series DEVS on HULU. Loved her performance and that show as a whole. Looking forward to seeing her switching from sci-fi to fantasy.

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    8. I just saw Eve Best in the series “Fate: The Winx Saga”
      It’s a bit like a twist on Harry Potter with a school of magic.
      She played the headmistress Farah Dowling. The school taught magic similar to Harry Potter, but for Fire Fairies, Earth Fairies, Water Fairies and more. I found the series somewhat watchable. It had alot of standard teen drama themes. Eve Best did a nice job as one of the adults. She had to come to the rescue and use her own magic several times. I can see her fitting the part of Princess Rhaenys Velaryon, “The Queen Who Never Was” She fits the age as described in the novellas.

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    9. I love the exotic look of Sonoya Mizuno:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/c5/55/32c555d1ffb56ba49dda4867892d1255.jpg

      I’ve got to go look for some video clips to see her in other roles.

      Question for Fire & Blood scholars:

      The character description in the main article says:

      Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.”

      I’m intrigued by this backstory. It sounds like Mysaria is going to be more than a loyal sidekick to Prince Daemon.
      Are there any additional details about the character in the books? (Kindly cover replies in spoiler coding.)
      Thanks in advance!

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    10. ack, good point, hope I did not spoil.. was assuming I was writing all backstory stuff re the character descriptions provided by the show site and no plot spoilers but I may have been borderline. If so, I apologize 🙁

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    11. Ten Bears,

      Thanks for the reminder about spoiler codes! I forgot too 🙁

      Some details about Mysaria:

      This happens when Daemon grows bored with the offices he’s assigned to and becomes discontented with his wife. While Viserys refused to annul the marriage, he gave Daemon command of the City Watch, which Daemon liked a lot better. This is when he meets Mysaria, who becomes his paramour.

      Prince Daemon improved the armaments and training of the watch and gave them the golden cloaks that led them to be known as the “gold cloaks” to this day. He often joined his men in patrolling the city, swiftly becoming known to both the meanest urchin and the wealthiest tradesman, and earned a certain dark reputation in the stews and brothels where he was wont to make free of the wares on offer. Crime fell sharply, though some said it was because Daemon delighted in meting out harsh punishments. Yet those who benefited from his rule loved him well, and Daemon soon became known as “Lord Flea Bottom.”

      Later still, after Viserys refused him the title of Prince of Dragonstone, he came to be called “the Prince of the City.” It was in the brothels of the city that he found a favorite, a paramour—a very pale Lysene dancer named Mysaria, whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery, the White Worm. Later, she became Daemon’s mistress of whisperers.

      And when Princess Rhaenyra is named Viserys’s heir in an opulent ceremony, Daemon is furious and takes off with Mysaria:

      Prince Daemon was not amongst them, however. Furious at the king’s decree, the prince quit King’s Landing, resigning from the City Watch. He went first to Dragonstone, taking his paramour Mysaria with him upon the back of his dragon Caraxes, the lean red beast the smallfolk called the Blood Wyrm. There he remained for half a year, during which time he got Mysaria with child.

      When he learned that his concubine was pregnant, Prince Daemon presented her with a dragon’s egg, but in this he again went too far and woke his brother’s wroth. King Viserys commanded him to return the egg, send his whore away, and return to his lawful wife, or else be attainted as a traitor. The prince obeyed, though with ill grace, dispatching Mysaria (eggless) back to Lys, whilst he himself flew to Runestone in the Vale and the unwelcome company of his “bronze bitch.” But Mysaria lost her child during a storm on the narrow sea. When word reached Prince Daemon he spoke no syllable of grief, but his heart hardened against the king, his brother. Thereafter he spoke of King Viserys only with disdain, and began to brood day and night on the succession.

      There’s more to Mysaria’s story but I think this is a good start? 🙂

      And maybe Max will have some commentary too!

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    12. Jaime’s girl:
      ack, good point, hope I did not spoil.. was assuming I was writing all backstory stuff re the character descriptions provided by the show site and no plot spoilers but I may have been borderline. If so, I apologize 🙁

      I forgot too 🙁

      I’m really curious then when the start point of the narrative will be…

      Me too!

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    13. MJ:
      I’m all for diverse casting, but Corlys being black ruins a major plot point of the book. Unless Hugh Hammer is also black…

      I think casting a black actor as Corlys Velaryon is a great choice because it makes one of the most important plot points obvious: that Corlys’s grandsons look nothing like him or his son. Instead, they look very much like their mother’s good friend.

      Hugh Hammer isn’t important from this plot point of view. We don’t know where he got his “dragonriding blood”, probably not the Velaryons because they weren’t dragonriders. Corlys’s son only was one because his mother was a Targaryen.

      (The Targaryens and Velaryons had intermarried before but we’ve never heard of a Velaryon dragonrider before Corlys’s son.)

      Besides, Hugh was from Dragonstone, the Targaryen island, not Driftmark, the Velaryon island.

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    14. Great news about Ramin! Hopefully Miguel doesn’t butt in on his score with lame suggestions. Also love Rhys and Sonya Mizuno. If you haven’t checked out Alex Garland’s mini-series Devs which flew under the radar last year, you should, Sonya was great in that.

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    15. Great news! Among the four, I only know Rhys Ifans (Grutas in Hannibal Rising, Xenophillius Lovegood in Harry Potter and it’s likely I spotted him somewhere else too) but I’m lookinh forward to seeing all these four on screen. As I said in another thread, I’m especially intrigued to see the what’s originally written as historical account play out as true story, with characters’ interactions and firm characterization.

      As for black Corlys, I really don’t mind it. What matters to me is the performance, not outlook.

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    16. Adrianacandle,

      “Mysaria,

      whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery,

      the White Worm.”

      I wonder if that was an intentional reference to the movie “The Lair of the White Worm.”

      http://www.vaultofthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/amanda-donahoe-lair-white-worm.png

      That 1988 movie starred Peter Capaldi, Matt Smith’s eventual regenerated successor as Dr. Who.

      Of course, that incarnation of Dr. Who intersected through millennia of time and light years of space with Ashildr (Maisie Williams), proving once again that “All Roads Lead to Arya.”

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    17. Adrianacandle,

      With the understanding that I have not read the source material and I am engaging in rank, uninformed speculation, from your description of Mysaria + the casting news, below, I’m thinking that Mysaria is the frontrunner to be a fan favorite. A few reasons…
      (1) Everybody likes an underdog story. (Well, at least I do.) Even more so when the underdog has pulled herself up to achieve a vaunted position
      among those given everything on a silver platter – like snooty, self-entitled aristocrats.
      (2) Similarly, a loyal and “most trusted ally” type of character is usually endearing to an audience.
      (3) In some ways, her story seems to mirror that of S1-S5 Varys

      a disposable non-entity who survived exploitation as a child to become powerful and indispensable in his or her own right. (Though it may be coincidental, both Varys and Mysaria rose up to become Master/Mistress of Whispers.) BTW, I refer to S1-S4 one-step-ahead-of-everyone Varys because after that, his character seemed to lose his intellectual mojo and become careless before being sidelined and unceremoniously jettisoned in S6-S8).

      (4) From comments about and descriptions of Alicent and Rhaenys, I get the impression that

      neither one of these two rivals will be classic heroines, i.e, they will be morally grey characters and there will be reasons to root for and against both of them.*

      While I understand that Big G usually blurs the bright line between stereotypical “good guys” and “bad guys,”there are exceptions…
      (5) That Prince Daemon not only

      ”found a favorite, a paramour” in Mysaria

      but elevated her to a position of trust and

      apparently had great affection for her

      should mean that audiences will be enamored with her too. If her trajectory

      tracks that in the books, as you described, it doesn’t sound like she will become a backstabber; she will remain loyal – and both she and Daemon will suffer after Viserys forces him to exile her. If that happens, I assume she’ll then engender sympathy, not derision.

      (6) Though this is admittedly shallow of me to say, based on physical appearance Sonoya Mizuno looks like Mysaria will be an alluring but fierce character: Easy on the eyes and fun to watch in action. (Fanboy Alert: She reminds me a little of Rila Fukushima, the GoT S5 Volantis Red Priestess, who I thought stole the show from Hugh Jackman in “The Wolverine” movie in which she played

      ”a most trusted and unlikely ally” of Wolverine.)

      * Caveat(s)
      – I can’t tell if Daemon (and Mysaria by extension) will align with Team Green, Team Black, or neither one.

      I don’t know enough to project how Daemon reacted when his “heart hardened against the king, his brother. Thereafter he spoke of King Viserys only with disdain.”

      – Please, oh please!

      No baby dramas. Maybe HotD can skip the part where “Mysaria lost her child during a storm on the narrow sea.”

      ➖➖➖
      [Daemon]

      “found a favorite, a paramour—a very pale Lysene dancer named Mysaria, whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery, the White Worm. Later, she became Daemon’s mistress of whisperers.”

      “Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne..”

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    18. Ten Bears,

      I’ll get back to you in about an hour! I’m on my way out for a quick errand but I don’t know if you’ll like some of the stuff since

      she’s not a particularly endearing character and is the one who informs on Nettles — claiming Nettles is apparently sleeping with Daemon — and adds fuel to Rhaenyra’s desire to execute Nettles.

      She’s Team Black though.

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    19. Ten Bears,

      Kay, some passages from Fire & Blood:

      At this time, Daemon and Rhaenyra are married. Rhaenyra’s son Lucerys Velaryon is killed at age 14 on dragonback when Aemond Targaryen (Alicent’s second son) pursues him on dragonback and the dragons engage. They have a bad history. Anyway, Lucerys falls to his death, devastating Rhaenyra. Daemon is enraged and seeks vengeance, enlisting Mysaria’s help.

      The prince still had friends in the low places of King’s Landing, and followers amongst the gold cloaks. Unbeknownst to King Aegon, the Hand, or the Queen Dowager, he had allies at court as well, even on the green council…and one other go-between, a special friend he trusted utterly, who knew the wine sinks and rat pits that festered in the shadow of the Red Keep as well as Daemon himself once had, and moved easily through the shadows of the city. To this pale stranger he reached out now, by secret ways, to set a terrible vengeance into motion. [Mysaria]

      Amidst the stews of Flea Bottom, Prince Daemon’s go-between found suitable instruments. One had been a serjeant in the City Watch; big and brutal, he had lost his gold cloak for beating a whore to death whilst in a drunken rage. The other was a ratcatcher in the Red Keep. Their true names are lost to history. They are remembered (would that they were not!) as Blood and Cheese.

      This is where poor Helaena comes in and she is forced to choose which of her sons would die. When Helaena very reluctantly chooses, Blood kills the one she doesn’t choose so that son will have to live with the knowledge that his mother rather he died over his brother. Yikes.

      Anyway…

      Two days later, Blood was seized at the Gate of the Gods trying to leave King’s Landing with the head of Prince Jaehaerys hidden in one of his saddle sacks. Under torture, he confessed that he had been taking it to Harrenhal, to collect his reward from Prince Daemon. He also gave up a description of the whore he claimed had hired them: an older woman, foreign by her talk, cloaked and hooded, very pale. The other harlots called her Misery.

      After thirteen days of torment, Blood was at last allowed to die. Queen Alicent had commanded Larys Clubfoot to learn his true name, so that she might bathe in the blood of his wife and children, but our sources do not say if this occurred. Ser Luthor Largent and his gold cloaks searched the Street of Silk from top to bottom, and turned out and stripped every harlot in King’s Landing, but no trace of Cheese or the White Worm was ever found. In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done.

      

So when Rhaenyra becomes queen…

      Even the White Worm came to court; the Lysene harlot Mysaria emerged from the shadows to take up residence in the Red Keep. Though never officially seated with the queen’s small council, the woman now known as Lady Misery became the mistress of whisperers in all but name, with eyes and ears in every brothel, alehouse, and pot shop in King’s Landing, and in the halls and bedchambers of the mighty as well. Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening…with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. “Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, “and we shall do the same.”

      Mysaria helping Rhaenyra out with her punishments…



      Here again Mushroom differs. The dwarf would have us believe that Rhaenyra ordered her stepmother’s tongue torn out at once, rather than merely threatening this. It was only a word from Lady Misery that stayed her hand, the fool insists; the White Worm proposed another, crueler punishment. King Aegon’s wife and mother were taken in chains to a certain brothel, and there sold to any man who wished to have his pleasure of them. The price was high; a golden dragon for Queen Alicent, three dragons for Queen Helaena, who was younger and more beautiful. Yet Mushroom says there were many in the city who thought that cheap for carnal knowledge of a queen. “Let them remain there until they are with child,” Lady Misery is purported to have said. “They speak of bastards so freely, let them each have one for their very own.”

      The suspected turncloak Addam Velaryon had fled before he could be put to the question. His flight had proved his guilt, the White Worm murmured.

      When Mysaria informs on Nettles….

      It might be so. Yet Queen Rhaenyra did not act at once, but rather sent for Mysaria, the harlot and dancing girl who was her mistress of whisperers in all but name. With her skin as pale as milk, Lady Misery appeared before the council in a hooded robe of black velvet lined with blood-red silk, and stood with head bowed humbly as Her Grace asked whether she thought Ser Addam and Nettles might be planning to betray them. Then the White Worm raised her eyes and said in a soft voice, “The girl has already betrayed you, my queen. Even now she shares your husband’s bed, and soon enough she will have his bastard in her belly.”

      That was proved when two of the Sea Snake’s sworn swords, Ser Denys Woodwright and Ser Thoron True, cut their way into the dungeons to free their lord [Lord Corlys]. Their plans were betrayed to Lady Misery by a whore Ser Thoron had been bedding, and the would-be rescuers were taken and hanged. The two knights died at dawn, kicking and writhing against the walls of the Red Keep as the nooses tightened round their necks. That very day, not long after sunset, another horror visited the queen’s court. Helaena Targaryen, sister, wife, and queen to King Aegon II and mother of his children, threw herself from her window in Maegor’s Holdfast to die impaled upon the iron spikes that lined the dry moat below. She was but one-and-twenty.

      After half a year of captivity, why should Aegon’s queen [Helaena] choose this night to end her life? Mushroom asserts that Helaena was with child after her days and nights of being sold for a common whore, but this explanation is only as creditable as his tale of the Brothel Queens, which is to say, not creditable at all. Grand Maester Munkun believes the horror of seeing Ser Thoron and Ser Denys die drove her to the act, but if the young queen knew the two men it could only have been as gaolers, and there is no evidence that she was a witness to their hanging. Septon Eustace suggests that Lady Mysaria, the White Worm, chose this night to tell Helaena of the death of her son Maelor, and the grisly manner of his passing, though what motive she would have had for doing so, beyond simple malice, is hard to fathom.

      By evenfall, Rhaenyra Targaryen found herself sore beset on every side, her reign in ruins. “The queen wept when they told her how Ser Lorent died,” Mushroom testifies, “but she raged when she learned that Maidenpool had gone over to the foe, that the girl Nettles had escaped, that her own beloved consort had betrayed her, and she trembled when Lady Mysaria warned her against the coming dark, that this night would be worse than the last. At dawn, a hundred men attended her in the throne room, but one by one they slipped away or were dismissed, until only her sons and I remained with her. ‘My faithful Mushroom,’ Her Grace called me, ‘would that all men were true as you. I should make you my Hand.’ When I replied that I would sooner be her consort, she laughed. No sound was ever sweeter. It was good to hear her laugh.”

      Mysaria warns Rhaenyra to flee and stays behind.

      Mushroom remained behind, along with other members of the court, amongst them Lady Misery and Septon Eustace. Ser Garth the Harelip, captain of the gold cloaks at the Dragon Gate, was charged with the defense of the castle, a task for which the Harelip proved to have little appetite. Her Grace had not been gone half a day when Ser Perkin the Flea and his gutter knights appeared outside the gates, demanding that the castle yield. Though outnumbered ten to one, the queen’s garrison might still have resisted, but Ser Garth chose instead to strike Rhaenyra’s banners, open his gates, and trust to the mercy of the foe.

      The Flea proved to have no mercy. Garth the Harelip was dragged before him and beheaded, along with twenty other knights still loyal to the queen, amongst them Ser Harmon of the Reeds, the Iron-Banger, who had been one of the Seven Who Rode. Nor was the mistress of whisperers, Lady Mysaria of Lys, spared on account of her sex. Taken whilst attempting to flee, the White Worm was whipped naked through the city, from the Red Keep to the Gate of the Gods. If she were still alive by the time they reached the gate, Ser Perkin promised, she would be spared and allowed to go. She made it only half that distance, dying on the cobblestones with hardly a patch of her pale white skin left upon her back.

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    20. Nee: Based on the context of their post, I think that poster meant to say “unless Harwin Strong is also black.”

      But that would defeat the whole point, wouldn’t it?

      Anyway, I don’t think you know what the poster “meant” to say.

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    21. Ten Bears,

      Be careful of prejudging yourself, ha ha ha.

      Seriously, I find it a bit weird “picking a side”, being “team this or that” before a single episode has aired, based on the scant information you – as a self-confessed non-book-reader – have and the looks of the actors.

      Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird. The whole point of the Dance of the Dragons, as GRRM wrote it, is that there’s no right side or wrong side. It’s a tragic muddle and mess.

      I’ve read the available published GRRM material, and I think the Greens were worse but the Blacks came a very close second, especially later on. They were both awful for the smallfolk.

      It all came to an end, when the awesome

      Lord Cregan Stark finally came south and sorted it all, punishing Blacks and Greens with no fear or favour. He might’ve gone a bit too far with his northern justice, but the even more awesome Black Aly (Alysanne Blackwood) swayed him, helped build bridges, peace, brought the North and south closer together… Ha ha, even showed the way by marrying Cregan Stark herself (because she wanted, she had the hots for him).

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    22. Of course, my own ideas about this new, potential show are “tainted”, even prejudiced, by having read the available GRRM book material.

      However, I do not expect “book purity” from a TV show. (Such as the nonesense some of the more extreme elements of fandom shrieking that the actors cast don’t exactly fit the book description. )

      Because I know perfect book/show equivalence can never be achieved. Because you’re dealing with two very different, though related, art forms. The way you tell a story in written word is very different you tell a story in a visual, time-sensitive medium.

      TV/film has at its fingertips a multitude of means to create and convey meaning in seconds that the writer has to spend pages on. Think colour, lighting, costumes, scenery, framing, zooming in or out. The viewers take it in in seconds, the reader takes minutes to read through the description. Add sound effects and especially music – which especially appeals to viewers’ feelings – witness the love for Ramin Djawadi!

      I’m prepared to like this new HoTD project if they don’t descend into clichés of “goodies” and “badies” but keep it grey and ambiguous, with strong actor performances (supported by strong writing, of course). Heh, “high thread-count” scenes.

      If it becomes just another fantasy superhero dragon spectacle… No thanks.

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    23. Ten Bears: Oh sh*t!

      This made me laugh XD

      But she still may be a compelling character!

      talvikorppi: Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird. The whole point of the Dance of the Dragons, as GRRM wrote it, is that there’s no right side or wrong side. It’s a tragic muddle and mess.

      Again, I think you’re on point with the characterization of what went on during this time period (“no right side or wrong side”, “a tragic muddle and mess”). Although, I admit that I like the idea of declaring for Team Black or Team Green in a good-natured fandom way, I think it’ll be pretty impossible to root for either thick or thin no matter what. Both sides do some pretty atrocious things and although I side a bit more with Team Black,

      what was done to Helaena by Daemon, Rhaenyra, and Mysaria was beyond hideous, for example.

      I think that there is no morally superior side and both are undoubtedly grey, muddled, each having done horrendous things while (most) characters all have their selfish/horrible/sympathetic/and everything-in-between qualities, I think that should make this an intriguing series.

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    24. One thing I find myself wondering about is the HotD timeline. How will they handle it?

      The roots of the Dance of the Dragons are buried deep in the reign of Jaeharys I and his sister-wife Queen Alysanne. Then the Great Council of 101 AD. The actual “Dance” happened in 129-131 AD but things had been going on in court for at least 15 years before that.

      Rhaenyra from a child, “the Realm’s delight”, to a middle-aged (by Westerosi standards) woman.

      The TV show probably has to condense the timeline. How will they do it?

      I’m not too fussed if they don’t exactly follow book canon, I just hope they’re not falling into too many plot holes because of it. Hell, I won’t even care, if they do it well enough. But I set quite a high bar on that.

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    25. talvikorppi: One thing I find myself wondering about is the HotD timeline. How will they handle it?

      The roots of the Dance of the Dragons are buried deep in the reign of Jaeharys I and his sister-wife Queen Alysanne. Then the Great Council of 101 AD. The actual “Dance” happened in 129-131 AD but things had been going on in court for at least 15 years before that.

      Rhaenyra from a child, “the Realm’s delight”, to a middle-aged (by Westerosi standards) woman.

      The TV show probably has to condense the timeline. How will they do it?

      I’m not too fussed if they don’t exactly follow book canon, I just hope they’re not falling into too many plot holes because of it. Hell, I won’t even care, if they do it well enough. But I set quite a high bar on that.

      I guess there would be two important considerations: when will they begin the narrative and how long they’d like this show to go on for (how many seasons?)

      Because you’re right, this story spans quite a length of time and the seeds of conflict were sown before even Rhaenyra was born in 97AC and well before Alicent came to court in 101AC as a young teenager. Perhaps they’ll have a quick history lesson on this?

      As for the rest, since the story covers about 25-30 years, I wonder if they’ll do it something like how The Tudors covered the reign of Henry the VIII. While The Tudors definitely took… liberties… it ran for four seasons (10 episodes a season, I believe) and took Henry from his 20s to his death in his 50s. Each season seemed divvied up by a change in time period and/or wives.

      So I wonder if they’ll perhaps handle it like that?

        Quote  Reply

    26. One final note before I have to go to bed (it’s past 2am where I live, ha ha).

      When the idea of prequel shows were first mooted several years ago, there were lots who wanted Robert’s Rebellion or Dunk & Egg or Long Night or whatever.

      The Dance of the Dragons was always my first choice. However, I thought it maybe unfeasible because of expensive dragon CGI. I was even finding ways to keep dragons off-screen as much as possible. It is, after all, most of all, a court intrigue and human drama at heart. Dragon flights and fights are actually just fantasy window-dressing.

      Ha ha, a year ago the bosses that be at HBO (or their bosses) came to the same conclusion. I just hope they do it well. Well enough for me to like it.

        Quote  Reply

    27. talvikorppi,

      ”Seriously, I find it a bit weird “picking a side”, being “team this or that” before a single episode has aired, based on the scant information you – as a self-confessed non-book-reader – have and the looks of the actors.

      Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird…”

      Nah. It’s all in good fun. Nothing serious.
      From what I gather about the two sides in HotD,

      with both behaving miserably and ultimately imploding

      , if I’m going to pick sides like sports teams… I’d better be prepared to watch the show with a paper bag over my head.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4giMDi3Cugs
      🏟

        Quote  Reply

    28. Adrianacandle,

      thank you for the preview on a story that seems to be darker than GoT. it’s time for me to get prepared and read what i can get about House 50%-Chance-of-Batshit. a few watchings of the GoT history and lore just left me remembering some few civil wars or at least rebellions, and a seemingly limited pool of first names. by which i mean, confused.

      as there might be no climax like “the only war that matters” aka the war of the living against the dead, i expect HotD to be focussed on simply everything being shit and suffering. Ghost of Harrenhal – like.

      off now for learning about all the Aemons, Aegons, Aerons, Aerosolons, and then comes the letter B, and their numbering and all the sisters and mistresses they banged. i watched GoT without knowing anything about the book story. i want to be prepared this time, because i feel GRRMs writing is worth some preparation before watching adaptations.

      (finally, i can’t hold back this: a guy is nicknamed Iron-Banger? really? never lose the hyphen, or the internet will be out for you!)

        Quote  Reply

    29. death by chickenfire: finally, i can’t hold back this: a guy is nicknamed Iron-Banger? really? never lose the hyphen, or the internet will be out for you!)

      I’m afraid so XD; He was a knight, loyal to Team Black, who was sent to retrieve one of Rhaenyra’s sons when that son (named Joffrey! But not nearly as problematic as Cersei’s Joffrey…) was trying to save the dragons in the Dragonpit but Joffrey is killed in the attempt.

      As for sorting out all the wars, Aegons, Aemonds, Aerons (we even have a Princess Rhaenys and Princess Rhaenyra), I recommend looking up various key players on westeros.org’s wiki:

      Alicent Hightower
      Rhaenyra Targaryen
      Otto Hightower
      Daemon Targaryen

      And I think that should cover you well enough and give you a good timeline of what wars were fought when and what led up to them 🙂

      This can also provide a pretty good skeletal guide if you wish to make your way through the source material! (The World of Ice and Fire, Fire & Blood, as well as the short stories: The Princess and the Queen, The Rouge Prince)

        Quote  Reply

    30. Nee,

      That would make more sense to me too. I can’t figure out a plot that would make the Hammer and Corlys’ skin color be at odds plot wise, but Harwin IS rumored to have fathered Rhaenyra’s children by Corlys Velaryon’s son. So it would make a lot of sense for Harwin Strong to be cast as a black character.

      Maybe they will cast him so and thus have more diverse cast.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Don’t know anything about any of them but I hope for the best for the dude who plays the Sea Snake. He’s got a kick ass character to portray and Of which I’m a fan.

      No word on Cragan Stark, so I’ll assume he won’t make an appearance until season 3 or so…

        Quote  Reply

    32. TormundsWoman:

      …No word on Cragan Stark, so I’ll assume he won’t make an appearance until season 3 or so…

      They could bring back a Stark actor from GoT, similar to what Star Trek: The Next Generation did in “Redemption Part I.”
      ⚠️ Massive Spoiler!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tgDotNSn4

      ⚠️ Spoiler details!

      Now that was a “Holy Sh*t!!!” moment that was kept under wraps until the episode-ending reveal: the actress who played the long-dead Tasha Yar returning as Tasha’s half-Romulan daughter from the distant past! (Because of time travel)

        Quote  Reply

    33. Ten Bears,

      I commend you on your frequent TNG asides. I can tell you are very knowledgeable about that show, which can only be considered a mark of good taste. Tip o’ the hat. Tap on the communicator. Or something to that effect.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Adrianacandle,

      You know, this “team Black” vs “team Green” thing, this is something that really intrigues me in terms of how the story will “emotionally” unfold on screen. As I said once before, I only know about The Dance of Dragons from Viserys I/Aegon II chapters of TWOIAF and from S5 Histories & Lore episode and regarding the conflict itself, I ended up thinking at the end who is more horrible than the other and I couldn’t decide. It makes me wonder if the events of GoT were writen as historical records, what would our opinion be on these years of conflict… maybe we would have even darker impression of this 8-season story.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,

      I think the benefit of having HotD as a show based off of a historical account is that we’ll be getting insight into who the characters are rather than just these historical figures. What they’re thinking, what they’re feeling, what motivates them — basically, what makes them human.

      In historical documents, people can come off looking quite a bit worse because history documents and texts don’t record the private things, the emotion, the feelings, their thoughts, what’s driving them. Well-meaning characters can come off quite badly and vice versa (depending on who’s providing the documentation. The world books — The World of Ice and Fire as well as Fire & Blood — are written in-universe by maesters with their own biases. I think Fire & Blood may be written by maester who is more sympathetic to Rhaenyra, for instance).

      So I think HotD will humanize these historical figures, make them real, human, and relatable. Give other sides to the story.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Adrianacandle,

      Yes, exactly that! I’m really intrigued to see with which character I’ll sympathize the most when we see them as full-fleshed characters on screen, rather than just figures in historical account. I’m sure the whole conflict would come across as more complex than just “people being greedy and powerhungry”. After all, if GoT was recorded as historical account rather than a character-focused story, I’m sure we would be grasping some characters differently or the story itself.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,

      And I think this is truth in fiction. Often times, on the surface, people (and real life historical figures) can appear quite different in a text book than they would if you knew who they were one on one, what motivates them, why they make the decisions they do, what they care about, and their story. The full truth (or something like it) is often buried a bit under the surface details and is, perhaps, never known publicly. If it is documented, it’s at the mercy of the one presenting it.

      In this, I think HotD characters can be made pretty compelling, even the ones who make some pretty yikes! choices.

      Bonus points if they’re given a sense of humour 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    38. Adrianacandle,

      Once when I was at the French conversation group I attend with U3A (umbrella group for retired and semi-retired people) when we were able to meet in person (pre-lockdown) I mentioned something about having looked for information on Wikipedia. Somebody said it’s not always a reliable source. I countered with saying (not nastily) that I thought it had improved latterly. The other lady said the entries on Richard III (of England) change regularly – a person who thinks Richard III was one of the baddies may write something and then a person who thinks Richard was a good bloke will come along to edit the page to reflect his/her point of view. Some people call Wiki——-a, Wikimisleadia I know. I wonder if GRRM was playing with the idea of different people telling different histories in his Westeros ‘history’ books. I’m a stubborn old trout and I’m not spending any of my hard earned on books by GRRM re: Westeros that aren’t part of the main series until when and if TWoW makes it into print – so this year, next year, some time, never, who know.

      Getting back to the topic of this thread, offhand I can’t think of having seen the four thespians cited above in any films or shows so I can’t judge them. I was rather surprised there were some people who were less than enthralled when Matt Smith’s casting was announced because he wasn’t ‘hawt’ enough. I’m not saying I’m averse to looking at attractive males but if it comes to a toss-up between acting chops and looks I’d go for acting chops when casting a character. Make-up can work wonders – I don’t bother so much now but back in the day when I went to dances or otherwise socialised I could achieve miracles with war paint.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Dame of Mercia: I mentioned something about having looked for information on Wikipedia. Somebody said it’s not always a reliable source. I countered with saying (not nastily) that I thought it had improved latterly. The other lady said the entries on Richard III (of England) change regularly – a person who thinks Richard III was one of the baddies may write something and then a person who thinks Richard was a good bloke will come along to edit the page to reflect his/her point of view.

      I think Wikipedia is getting better — it really depends on the editors who are working on the articles at the time. What sounds like is going on with the Richard III article may be perhaps editing warring or conflict between editors, indicating the article is unstable. There’s also something on Wikipedia called WP:Undue weight (the weight a reliable source is given to represent information in the article) and this can lead to quite a bit of conflict between editors. Recently, I was involved in an arbitration case (not as one of the parties but as an editor who made a statement on my view of what was going on) where WP:Undue weight was a pretty major issue. Ideally, articles are supposed to be written in a neutral point of view (not informed by an editor’s bias) where sources are given appropriate weight (the more mainstream the view, the greater the weight since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia: meant to neutrally record and document what’s going on in current events and society, not be a leader in change while some editors try to use it as a plotform for change and as a soapbox) and that can cause conflict as well.

      I do know quite a few hardworking, experienced Wikipedians who have been working on the site since like 2003/2004 and have hundreds of thousands of edits under their belts, tirelessly devoting themselves to improving quality of articles. The problem is, there are also problem editors as well. Not ever article self-corrects especially if there’s aren’t dedicated, policy-focused editor actively working on that article, and there can be some misinformation.

      I wonder if GRRM was playing with the idea of different people telling different histories in his Westeros ‘history’ books. I’m a stubborn old trout and I’m not spending any of my hard earned on books by GRRM re: Westeros that aren’t part of the main series until when and if TWoW makes it into print – so this year, next year, some time, never, who know.

      I think that’s fair!

      But I think GRRM is specifically playing with this idea. In Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire, they are written to be in-universe textbooks by maesters and septons, including some statements like:

      Septon Eustace and Mushroom do not always agree upon particulars, and at times their accounts are considerably at variance with one another, and with the court records and the chronicles of Grand Maester Runciter and his successors. Yet their tales do explain much and more that might otherwise seem puzzling, and later accounts confirm enough of their stories to suggest that they contain at least some portion of truth.

      To balance Eustace, we have The Testimony of Mushroom, based upon the verbal account of the court fool (set down by a scribe who failed to append his name) who at various times capered for the amusement of King Viserys, Princess Rhaenyra, and both Aegons, the Second and Third.

      The council convened in the queen’s apartments within Maegor’s Holdfast. Many accounts have come down to us of what was said and done that night. By far the most detailed and authoritative of them is Grand Maester Munkun’s The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling.

      said. In Grand Maester Munkun’s account, the words are Orwyle’s, spoken softly, no more than a quibble. But Mushroom and Septon Eustace insist it was Lord Beesbury who spoke up, and in a waspish tone.

      With so many present on the bridge, it is not surprising that we have many differing accounts of what befell Maelor Targaryen. Mushroom tells us that Willow Pound-Stone clutched the boy so tightly that she broke his back and crushed him to death. Septon Eustace does not so much as mention Willow, however. In his account, the town butcher hacked the prince into six pieces with his cleaver, so all those fighting over him could have a piece. Grand Maester Munkun’s True Telling says that the boy was torn limb from limb by the mob, but names no names.

      And so on… 🙂

      Whereas in Dunk & Egg and ASOIAF, the story is told from the character’s point of view so we’re in their head, we know what’s going on there, what they’re feeling, what’s motivating them, and this internal perception of the character can differ pretty significantly from an external perception.

        Quote  Reply

    40. Musical Interlude
      Dedicated to Rhaenys Targaryen

      🎶 “She was moving like a lady
      Looking like a Dragon Princess.
      “🎶

      “St. Charles” (1976) – Jefferson Starship

      at 1:15 – 1:32

        Quote  Reply

    41. Starting to get pretty exciting. Corlys, Rhaenys, and Otto are all characters I was really looking forward to. For some reason I wasn’t sure if they were even going to cast Mysaria, but I’m very intrigued, and I love the choice they made there.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Mr Derp,

      Oh that’s nice news – about baby Harington. While I’m here, I hope those in North America (southern states) who may be suffering with the unusual snowy weather are bearing up alright. We’ve had some cold weather in the UK (not today which is quite mild) this winter and my electric (electrical?) consumption was more than the projected amount for the last two months because I kept the heaters plugged in . It usually evens out over the summer months though.

        Quote  Reply

    43. yesterday i saw Rhys Ifans in “Enduring Love”. surely not a masterpiece, though all of the actors tried their best to save the thin story.

      anyway, he left a bit of an impression, and i think we can expect his HotD character to be something in the range of twisted and gut-wrenching.

        Quote  Reply

    44. I’m familiar with Rhys Ifans from his major role on “Berlin Station”. Charismatic guy, a great actor, and a bit of a scene-stealer. He’s probably the best catch for HotD so far. Really good news.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Dame of Mercia,

      I’ve just thought, my previous comment may have sounded like I was unconcerned about people from the northern USA or Canada which isn’t the case. It’s just that in the UK the news has talked about snow in states like Texas and Tennessee.

      Returning to the topic of the thread, it is heartening that a number of visitors to the site feel the actors mentioned are decent at their craft (or art or skill or profession, however folk like to call it).

        Quote  Reply

    46. Mr Derp:
      Congrats to Kit and Rose on baby #1! That boy is going to have to fight with Sophie’s daughter for King/Queen in the North status.

      So… a firstborn female heiress and a younger, male heir vying for the throne? Somebody ought to make a TV series about that.
      Oh…wait…

        Quote  Reply

    47. Dame of Mercia:
      Dame of Mercia,

      …Returning to the topic of the thread, it is heartening that a number of visitors to the site feel the actors mentioned are decent at their craft (or art or skill or profession, however folk like to call it).

      ⚠️ Warning! Thread Derailment Ahead! 🛤 🚂
      In the absence of on-topic discussions for over three days, I hope the community won’t mind an off-topic, GoT-related musical interlude that may
      require the hashtag #ARLTA.

      All Roads Lead to Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Ten Bears: ⚠️ Warning! Thread Derailment Ahead! 🛤 🚂
      In the absence of on-topic discussions for over three days, I hope the community won’t mind an off-topic, GoT-related musical interlude that may
      require the hashtag #ARLTA.

      Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia. It stars Kate Hudson, Leslie Odom Jr., and introducing Maddie Ziegler as Music. They break into these bizarre music video interludes! (at least 5 or 6 or 7 times). Some of the inflated costumes reminded me of the Oopa Loompas in Willy Wonka. Maddie’s character “Music” is autistic and I think the music videos were showing us what was going on in her head. I found it oddly effective. Can you imagine a random musical number with people in weird oompa lumpa costumes after a traumatic scene in HotD? Perhaps it’s a new genre and could be worked in! I could hear the pitch now.

      Here’s one of them… They weren’t all on YouTube. The trailer doesn’t really show much of the random video interludes… but here’s one of Maddie’s (Music’s) interludes.

      This also could be a great Musical/Play.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Adrianacandle,

      ⚠️ Semi Off-Topic, Trivial Pre-Musical Interlude
      Questions about GoT S8e2 and S8e3:

      I don’t have the episodes saved to rewatch and my memory is hazy (and I’m probably stilldisoriented by the quiet, “high thread count” content of S8e2 leading right into the frenetic, action-packed, clusterf*ck of S8e3):

      • As I recall, S8e3, “The Long Night,” opened with Winterfell’s defenders arrayed outside the castle, in the dark, awaiting the imminent approach of the Army of the Dead.
      Did the bulk of the preceding episode (S8e2, “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”), and especially its closing montage, take place that same evening? S8e2 and S8e3 both took place the same night, right?

      • In the latter part of S8e2 including the closing montage, were the characters choosing with whom to spend (what might be) their final hours on earth?

      • As I recall, Tyrion, Tormund, Davos et al. were drinking; Arya and Gendry were doing the horizontal bop; and Jaime and Brienne were going at it – even though the battle royale was hours away?
      They didn’t sleep off their buzz or take naps beforehand, right?

      • I guess what I’m asking is:
      Did the anxious Winterfell defenders stay awake all through the night to await the arrival of Team NK in the wee hours?

      • In colloquial terms, did the whole gang pull an all-nighter? Were they awake all through the night until the the sun came up the next day (when Mel walked off and disintegrated)?

        Quote  Reply

    50. Ten Bears,

      That was my impression — and I imagine it’d be a hard night to sleep on, knowing the army of the dead were coming but without knowing exactly when. Just that it’d be before sunrise sometime, given Tormund’s ETA. I think they even might have arrived a bit earlier than anticipated because the battle started well before sunrise/twilight.

      But that’s just a guesstimation 🙂

      Myself, I’ve pulled a ton of all nighters — especially in high anxiety situations. Well, not like facing a zombie apocalypse but like an MFA oral defense (where I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas right before). I think the longest I’ve stayed awake is 70 hrs and by then, the air was vibrating colours and I swear I could see sound 😉

      Looking forward to your musical interlude!!

        Quote  Reply

    51. Tron79,

      ”Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia.”

      From a quick Google search it looks like this movie is playing in theaters and on cable via On Demand. (Apparently, it’s gotten lousy reviews and there’s some backlash over its portrayal of autism – but I don’t take stock of reviews, and these days it seems everything invites some kind of “backlash.”)

      However, if Tron79 gives “Music” a thumb’s up I’ll put it on my “To Watch” List.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      ”Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia.”

      From a quick Google search it looks like this movie is playing in theaters and on cable via On Demand. (Apparently, it’s gotten lousy reviews and there’s some backlash over its portrayal of autism – but I don’t take stock of reviews, and these days it seems everything invites some kind of “backlash.”)

      However, if Tron79 gives “Music” a thumb’s up I’ll put it on my “To Watch” List.

      I give it a thumbs up. I haven’t read the reviews yet. Regarding autism, it’s called being on the spectrum for a reason. Not everyone is the same. Some who are barely on the spectrum may not have as many physical signs that people recognize, but they still may have behavioral symptoms, such as not being able to understand social cues. Music’s character was pretty high up on the spectrum IMHO. I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost famous. I almost didn’t recognize her with her “burr” haircut. Leslie Odom Jr. (of Hamilton fame) was also very good. I think this could be made into a great Broadway play/musical. Most of the interaction was between Leslie Odom Jr. and Kate Hudson. Also much of the movie takes place in a little NYC apartment. They do venture out some. There were also some very likable neighborhood characters. Anyway, it’s definitely something different than the usual fare out there. I rented it on Amazon. They already dropped the price some from the usual early release movies, so my guess is the reaction has been less than enthusiastic from the masses. But according to Tron, it gets a thumbs up. I’m lovin’ the Oompa Loompa musical interludes.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Adrianacandle,

      ”….Myself, I’ve pulled a ton of all nighters — especially in high anxiety situations. Well, not like facing a zombie apocalypse but like an MFA oral defense (where I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas right before). I think the longest I’ve stayed awake is 70 hrs and by then, the air was vibrating colours and I swear I could see sound…”

      • So sorry. I didn’t get the reference/abbreviation “MFA oral defense.” Is that a video game or something?
      • “I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas” is oddly poetic. 😬
      But as Sandor might ask: What the f*ck’s a Dundas? (I guess I can look it up…)
      • Oh, yes, I’ve been there: staying awake ~ 70 hours when it started to seem like the air was vibrating colors and I could “see” sound. (I’ve tasted black cherry bubble gum in my fingertips, but that’s another story entirely…)
      • I can’t pull all-nighters like I used to. They make me worthless for the next two or three days, unless and until I repay the sleep debt – with steep interest.
      Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.

      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Ten Bears: Oh, I think you did just fine. I don’t see where you (mis-)used gender pronouns. I thought “King/Queen” covered either or both.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdVqgF3XYAAZ44O?format=jpg&name=medium

      I’m Stannis Baratheon and I approved this message.”

      I will never forget when one of the writers on this site decided to chastise me for using the word “female”.

      Coincidentally, I also used the word “male” in the same sentence, yet that was apparently ok.

      That was insane.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Ten Bears,

      So sorry. I didn’t get the reference/abbreviation “MFA oral defense.” Is that a video game or something?

      MFA stands for Master of Fine Arts (I got it in visual arts). At the end of traditional grad programs (like in the arts and sciences), you’re required to do an oral defense. It’s basically a presentation of your thesis to a committee, who have read the thesis paper you have put together over a 2+ period and will question you about it and your supports.

      It’s a pretty nerve-wracking experience. They can either:

      a) Say, “Yay! All good! You’ve passed! You’re a master now!”

      b) Say, “It’s good but we suggest you make these revisions/address these minor areas or questions/and resubmit for approval.”

      or

      c) Say, “Nope. You’ve failed. No degree for you.”

      In most cases, ‘b’ happens. I don’t know anybody who hasn’t had to make revisions to their thesis paper. At that point, once your thesis is approved, copies are professionally printed, bound (into its own hardcover text!), and made available in that university’s library.

      I recently found my dad’s PhD thesis paper digitized online by the university!

      “I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas” is oddly poetic. 😬

      Dundas is a street in Toronto! It’s where the gallery I was presenting my oral defense was located! 😀

      The nerve-induced vomiting did bring a rosy glow to my cheeks 😉

      Oh, yes, I’ve been there: staying awake ~ 70 hours when it started to seem like the air was vibrating colors and I could “see” sound. (I’ve tasted black cherry bubble gum in my fingertips, but that’s another story entirely…)

      It’s a strange, hallucinatory experience, isn’t it? It kind of reminded me when I accidentally mixed meds and hallucinated an entire day.

      There are intense studies on what sleep deprivation does to the brain.

      Now, my question would be: was the black cherry bubble gum really there or is that what your skin tasted like after three days of no sleep?

      I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!

        Quote  Reply

    56. Tron79,

      I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost Famous.”

      Oh yes. Kate Hudson stole the show in “Almost Famous” (2000), along with Anna Paquin and Zooey Deschanel as her fellow “Band Aids.”
      Six Degrees of Game of Thrones note: I remember that Noah Taylor (“Locke” on GoT, playing against type as a bad guy) was in “Almost Famous.”

        Quote  Reply

    57. Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews. People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Many people with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you. Those music videos are out there with every primary color in the world and people doing wild motions…

      Oh well… I will leave it up to you. You do already have a bunch on your watch list!

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost Famous.”

      Oh yes. Kate Hudson stole the show in “Almost Famous” (2000), along with Anna Paquin and Zooey Deschanelas her fellow “Band Aids.” Six Degrees of Game of Thrones note: I remember that Noah Taylor (“Locke” on GoT, playing against type as a bad guy) was in “Almost Famous.”

      I didn’t realize a young Noah Taylor was that guy in Almost Famous! Wow. It’s also hard to believe Almost Famous came out 21 years ago!
      Thanks for the 6th degree!

        Quote  Reply

    59. Adrianacandle,

      “Now, my question would be: was the black cherry bubble gum really there or is that what your skin tasted like after three days of no sleep?”
      The black cherry bubble gum was really there (in my mouth). The hallucinatory sensation of tasting it in my fingertips was unrelated to sleep deprivation. It was sort of similar to your account of accidentally mixing meds…

      ”I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!”

      On its way. Because the song is by one of those rare talented singers who sounds just as good if not better live than in the studio, I’ve got to choose between several live versions over the span of 35 years.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews.People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Manypeople with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you…

      For what it’s worth, Betty Gilpin played a “neuro-atypical” high-functioning autistic software engineer in Season 4 of CBS’s “Elementary” in 2016 opposite Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes.
      (Betty Gillian was in “Nurse Jackie” on Showtime in 2013 – 2015, and after “Elementary” went on to co-star in the buzzworthy series “GLOW” on Netflix in 2018-2019, though I don’t remember her in “Nurses Jackie” and haven’t watched “GLOW” – because I haven’t signed up for Netflix yet.)

      I bring this up because I thought Betty Gilpin did a great job in “Elementary” portraying someone on the “autism spectrum” without playing into cliches or stereotypes.

      Jonny Lee Miller’s Sherlock Holmes, an antisocial loner, had wonderful chemistry with Betty Gilpin as “Fiona,” a woman incapable of deception but also unable to pick up on social cues because of her neuroatypicality.

      I may try to find a couple of YouTube clips that highlighted her performance.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews.People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Manypeople with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you…

      For what it’s worth, Betty Gilpin played a “neuro-atypical” high-functioning autistic software engineer in Season 4 of CBS’s “Elementary” in 2016 opposite Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes.
      (Betty Gillian was in “Nurse Jackie” on Showtime in 2013 – 2015, and after “Elementary” went on to co-star in the buzzworthy series “GLOW” on Netflix in 2018-2019, though I don’t remember her in “Nurses Jackie” and haven’t watched “GLOW” – because I haven’t signed up for Netflix yet.)

      I bring this up because I thought Betty Gilpin did a great job in “Elementary” portraying someone on the “autism spectrum” without playing into cliches or stereotypes.

      Jonny Lee Miller’s Sherlock Holmes, an antisocial loner, had wonderful chemistry with Betty Gilpin as “Fiona,” a woman incapable of deception but also unable to pick up on social cues because of her neuroatypicality.

      I may try to find a couple of YouTube clips that highlighted her performance.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Adrianacandle,

      “…. Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.

      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.”

      “I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!”

      My only reservation is that my understanding

      of Arya’s “Cat of the Canals” persona

      is based on my second-hand “osmosis” of book readers’ commentary, since

      the show’s Braavos storyline didn’t include Arya’s “Cat of the Canals” alter-ego, and did not show her warging into a cat or cats when she was blind. Also, I am not sure if she had “cat dreams” at night like she had wolf dreams in which she inhabited the consciousness of Nymeria. (I think?)

      And yes, I KNOW I could read the books and find out these details for myself. However, as I’ve said (whinged) before, I’m reluctant to start reading the books unless and until GRRM finishes TWOW and ADOS – or Kevin1989 finishes them for him.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Tron79: I didn’t realize a young Noah Taylor was that guy in Almost Famous!Wow. It’s also hard to believe Almost Famous came out 21 years ago!
      Thanks for the 6th degree!

      Yeah, I’m kind of a fan of Noah Taylor.
      In addition to his supporting role in Cameron Crowe’s “Almost Famous” (2000), Noah Taylor was the tech support hologram in “Vanilla Sky” (2001), Cameron Crowe’s follow-up movie.

      ”Vanilla Sky” (adapted from a Spanish language movie of a different name) was ambitious, trippy and thought-provoking – but kind of depressing. I watched it because I was misled by the title. I thought it’d be fun. 😟Cameron Diaz was excellent though; she played against type as Tom Cruise’s character’s jilted girlfriend; Penelope Cruz played his prospective new girlfriend/soulmate.

      Oh, and Noah Taylor was really good as Emily Blunt’s scientist sidekick in “Edge of Tomorrow” (2014), a sci fi movie I really enjoyed, and as Angelina Jolie’s sidekick in the 2001 and 2003 Lara Croft “Tomb Raider” movies.*
      I think “Locke” may be the only character in any of his shows or films that I’ve seen in which he plays a bad guy.

      * Six Degrees of GoT cont.: In one of the Lara Croft movies, Lara Croft’s (apparent) frenemy was played by an impossibly handsome, impeccably dressed actor with a mellifluous voice. Instant man-crush on my part.

      It wasn’t until he started talking to Angelina Jolie that I exclaimed out loud: “Holy sh*t! That’s Jorah F*cking Mormont!”

        Quote  Reply

    64. Adrianacandle,

      (from 2:40 pm re: All-Nighters):
      TB wrote: “Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.
      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.”

      Adrianacandle replied at 2:49 pm:
      ”I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!
      …………………………
      ⚠️Musical Interlude
      Dedicated to “The Long Night” – or
      to Cat of the Canals

      🎶”All through the night
      I’ll be awake, and I’ll be with you.”🎶
      ***
      🎶 “All through the night
      Stray cat is crying, so stray cat sings back
      All through the night
      They have forgotten, what by day they lack
      Oh, under those white street lamps
      There is a little chance they may see
      We have no past,
      We won’t reach back…”🎶

      at 1:19:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIjWfvSz-bo

      • “All Through the Night” – Cyndi Lauper live, Sept. 21, 1984 on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson [4:43 long]

      …. or 30 years later….
      at 1:18
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yluGnvOazU

      • “All Through the Night” – Cyndi Lauper live, 2014 [4:51 long]
      In my view, both of these renditions are better than the studio (album) version. Maybe that’s because in both of the live versions – even the low-tech recording made from TV in 1984 – I didn’t realize at first that it’s her singing the long notes at the end. It sounded so other-worldly and pitch perfect that at first I thought I was listening to a musical instrument or synthesizer.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Since this year it will be twenty years since “LOTR:The Fellowship Of The Ring” was released in theatres, as a musical interlude, here is “The Breaking Of The Fellowship”, one of my favourite bits of music courtesy of the amazing Howard Shore…

        Quote  Reply

    66. Aaand of course because it would be impossible to think of the LOTR trilogy in general, and “The Fellowship Of The Ring” in particular without this song, here is the lyric video for “May It Be” by Enya:

        Quote  Reply

    67. loco73,

      Uh oh. Enya? Now you’re getting into

      Arya musical interlude territory (see S4s10 final segment through closing credits – Ramin Djawadi’s lush “The Children” as Arya sails away to Braavos; and the final montage in S8e6 as Arya sails away on her direwolf ship.)

      . Enya’s “Orinoco Flow (Sail Away)” is queued up and ready to go.
      Apologies in advance to commenters who are piqued

      by Arya-centric posts.

      .

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ten Bears,

      In AFFC, Arya is still having wolf dreams — though she thinks she should not be having them because she is trying to shed her identity as Arya Stark — but yes, I believe the following may possibly be a cat dream:

      That night she dreamed she was a wolf again, but it was different from the other dreams. In this dream she had no pack. She prowled alone, bounding over rooftops and padding silently beside the banks of a canal, stalking shadows through the fog.

      This sounds more like a cat than a wolf — for instance, wolves (and dogs) don’t typically bound over rooftops.

      But yes, Arya can warg cats and I think it can be argued she’s always had a kind of special connection to cats 🙂

      And that is a wonderful song choice for a Cat of the Canals musical interlude! I enjoyed all the variations but I think there’s always something so magical about live versions because it’s happening live. It’s like magic watching somebody sing in real time without any technological assistance. Just them.

      loco73,

      Thank you so much for linking these LoTR songs! ;0;

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ten Bears,

      I expect you know that Enya is sister to some of the members of Clannad – I think she was in Clannad herself at one time.

      Adrianacandle,

      Though I was glad a lot of the waffle and slog was cut out of AFFC and ADWD for the show (not wanting to tread on any book purists’ toes but I probably am going to though it’s not done maliciously) I would have liked to see the bit where blind Arya discovered something whilst warged into a cat (I won’t say what Arya’s discovery was as I don’t want to spoil too much for anyone who might read the books in the future and I’m rubbish at inserting spoiler tags).

      Bearing in mind my last sentence

      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS
      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS
      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS

      In the books it was implied that the old black tomcat who roamed around the Red Keep and couldn’t be caught was the kitten owned by Rhaegar’s little daughter who was slain. There used to be someone who posted here in the earlier days of this site (or it could have been its predecessor) as ‘Balerion the Cat’. Though I think you’ve read the books more times than me – I only went through them once, so you are no doubt well aware of that plot point.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Dame of Mercia,

      Oh, are you talking about the cat Arya was chasing around the Red Keep under the tutelage of Syrio being Rhaenys’s kitten grown up? (“Older than sin and twice as mean”)

      And yes, later, when Arya is blind, she has a tomcat purring in her lap and for a moment, can see:

      As the hours passed the tavern filled. Pynto was soon too busy to pay her any mind, but several of his regulars dropped coins into her begging bowl. Other tables were occupied by strangers: Ibbenese whalers who reeked of blood and blubber, a pair of bravos with scented oil in their hair, a fat man out of Lorath who complained that Pynto’s booths were too small for his belly. And later three Lyseni, sailors off the Goodheart, a storm-wracked galley that had limped into Braavos last night and been seized this morning by the Sealord’s guards.

      The Lyseni took the table nearest to the fire and spoke quietly over cups of black tar rum, keeping their voices low so no one could overhear. But she was no one and she heard most every word. And for a time it seemed that she could see them too, through the slitted yellow eyes of the tomcat purring in her lap. One was old and one was young and one had lost an ear, but all three had the white-blond hair and smooth fair skin of Lys, where the blood of the old Freehold still ran strong.

      The next morning, when the kindly man asked her what three things she knew that she had not known before, she was ready.

      I believe, here, we learn what happened to one of the slaver ships that were driven to Hardhome by the storms, whereupon they picked up-then grateful wildlings… but the pirates intended to sell them as slaves. However, thanks to the storms, the Goodheart is forced to go to Braavos instead, where slave trade is forbidden and the ship is seized.

      Also, when she’s being trained blind so she better uses her other four senses and she’s being attacked by a stick, she finds that the voice instructing her is unfamiliar. However, she later reveals to the kindly man it was him who was attacking her.

        Quote  Reply

    71. I watched a video about reverse applique today and the presenter said something about the activity (which was a simplified version – about right for me) was one of the ‘funnest’ things to do. I don’t think Stannis would have approved of the word (or is it?) ‘funnest’. Though the ‘Stop the steal’ with the last American president confused me. In the UK ‘steal’ isn’t usually used as a noun but rather as a verb. There is a context where something can be described as a ‘steal’ if somebody gets a worthwhile bargain but the context of people thinking an election result was fraudulent being fraudulent jarred rather with me.

      Adriana, this is only a small point so I don’t really think it’s a spoiler but in either AFFC or ADWD the old black cat at one point looks into Tommen’s bedroom (book Tommen being younger than show Tommen) at Tommen with his (Tommen’s) kittens.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Adrianacandle,
      ”…And that [“All Through the Night”] is a wonderful song choice for a Cat of the Canals musical interlude! I enjoyed all the variations but I think there’s always something so magical about live versions because it’s happening live. It’s like magic watching somebody sing in real time without any technological assistance. Just them.”
      ————-
      Because you/we have an affinity for bouncy “trampoline” songs,

      I should have included links to the full length videos of Cyndi Lauper’s two appearances in 1984 on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson: On both occasions, she started off with a “trampoline song” (then gave an entertaining/zany interview, before singing a lovely ballad – completely dispelling any notion that she was just a ditzy airhead with funny hair.)

      Here are the two links if you’re interested:

      March 1, 1984 Cyndi Lauper live on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson [16:45 total length]

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yis9av6xc

      🎶“Girls Just Want to Have Fun” (0:40 – 4:30)
      + Interview (4:31 to 10:31)
      +🎶 “Time After Time” (10:32 – 15:11)
      + Concluding chat (15:11-16:29)

      September 21, 1984 Cyndi Lauper live on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson [19:17 total length]

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPfu9V_VS-A

      🎶 “She Bop” (0:46 – 4:49)
      + Interview (4:50 – 12:16)
      + 🎶 “All Through the Night” (12:22 – 17:13)
      + Concluding chat (17:14 – 19:14)

      P.S.

      But for the website algorithms that divert to Moderation Purgatory comments embedding more than two links,

      I would have included another “trampoline song”

      – a bookend to “All Through the Night”/at the end of The Long Night.

      Maybe later…

        Quote  Reply

    73. Dame of Mercia,

      Are you thinking of this passage?

      At that hour, her son was fast asleep, but Cersei looked in upon him before seeking her own bed. She was surprised to find three black kittens cuddled up beside him. “Where did those come from?” she asked Ser Meryn Trant, outside the royal bedchamber.

      “The little queen gave them to him. She only meant to give him one, but he couldn’t decide which one he liked the best.”

      Better than cutting them out of their mother with a dagger, I suppose. Margaery’s clumsy attempts at seduction were so obvious as to be laughable. Tommen is too young for kisses, so she gives him kittens. Cersei rather wished they were not black, though. Black cats brought ill luck, as Rhaegar’s little girl had discovered in this very castle. She would have been my daughter, if the Mad King had not played his cruel jape on Father. It had to have been the madness that led Aerys to refuse Lord Tywin’s daughter and take his son instead, whilst marrying his own son to a feeble Dornish princess with black eyes and a flat chest.”

      Ten Bears,

      Thank-you so much! I’m familiar with quite a few of these songs and they would be perfect bouncers!! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    74. Hey, folks. Random question: do we have a Discord server? If not, we should have one! I’d love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Farimer123:
      Hey, folks. Random question: do we have a Discord server? If not, we should have one! I’d love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.

      I do not know what a “Discord Server” is. I don’t know if I or we have one, or should have one. (I’m computer illiterate.)
      If I Google it will I understand it? (“IPs,” “servers.” flux capacitors…none of that stuff makes sense to me.)

        Quote  Reply

    76. Dame of Mercia,

      Oh, of course! That epilogue passage! Thanks! 😀

      Ten Bears,

      It’s an application that allows text and voice chat, as well as live streaming — first became popular with gamers.

      I use it for online Dungeons and Dragons with my party and am part of a giant YouTuber gossip Discord for which my friend is part of the admin team 🙂

      Farimer,

      As far as I know, WotW doesn’t have a Discord server. I think there are two issues with it (as far as I can tell) currently: it requires learning a new app (for people who don’t know what it is/don’t want to download it) and would need a neutral and solid admin/mod team to keep things running smoothly. In my experience, private or small-group chats are fine without admin teams but when groups get larger than that, things can get messy. Just my perspective, though 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    77. Dame of Mercia,

      Ah, I see we’re on a cat-centric sub-thread. 🐈‍⬛

      Hold on…Did I start this by interposing a Long Night + Cat of the Canals musical interlude?I suppose I could go off on Arya chasing and studying cats at Syrio’s prompting, which enabled her to acquire critical intel (which her dad blew off), but also enabled her to escape from the Red Keep and elude Meryn F*cking Trant and his goons. In many respects I’d suggest show! Arya took on more characteristics of cats than wolves.

      [/spoiler]

        Quote  Reply

    78. Adrianacandle,

      ”As far as I know, WotW doesn’t have a Discord server. I think there are two issues with it (as far as I can tell) currently: it requires learning a new app (for people who don’t know what it is…”

      “People” like me. 🤥

      ”…and would need a neutral and solid admin/mod team to keep things running smoothly.”

      I’d imagine Sue and the other members of WotW’s administrator and moderator team(s) have already devoted countless hours (over how many years has it been?) keeping this site up and running and running smoothly.

      While I don’t know what’s involved in monitoring Discord group texts and chats, might it be a bit presumptuous to expect them to take on even more work and responsibilities?

      You observed that in your experience “private or small-group chats are fine without admin teams but when groups get larger than that, things can get messy.” It’s not uncommon for Comments Sections here to exceed hundreds of posts (even in GoT’s off-seasons as well as its post-mortem period). With few exceptions everyone who comes here is civil and respectful, even when they disagree.

      If a group “Discord” chat is anything like YouTube comments sections, wouldn’t it take just one or two “trolls” or sh*tposters to turn a group chat or text string into a cesspool of non-stop back and forth name-calling and personal insults?

      Finally, we do have the Forum Section for those who, like Faramir, would “love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.” However, for whatever reason (e.g., reports of difficulties registering; unfamiliarity; temporary spam infestation; etc.), the Forum Section has been an underutilized resource. With only a handful of participants, it’s hard to generate lively discussions.

      I wish that weren’t the case:

      Then I, and my fellow Sandoristas and ASNAWP fanboys and fangirls, could discuss Arya and the Hound to our hearts’ content without upsetting anyone (or using spoiler-coding and thread derailment warnings). In any event, Maisie Williams seems to have virtually disappeared: Even with the pandemic interruptions, she’s got no new TV or film projects pending as far as I can tell. (Good for her! She’s taking time to enjoy life away from the camera, just like she said she planned on doing. We should all be so fortunate.) So, there’s a built-in guardrail limiting excessive ASNAWP thread derailments. For now…

      I guess the same considerations apply to

      those who still want to continue venting their displeasure with “D&D” or engage in “S8 sucked” vs. “S8 was brilliant” debates.
      I mean, no matter how one feels about whether GoT stuck the landing, or crashed and burned on the runway, those topics have been beaten to death. Besides, there are enough hours-long, hypercritical YouTube videos uploaded by that demanding dragon guy and scores of other armchair quarterbacks to quench in perpetuity anyone’s thirst for vitriol directed at “Dumb & Dumber.”

      . A dedicated Forum Page might be a more appropriate place for that.
      But I digress…

      Speaking only for myself, I would welcome, and reply to, any insights on any subject by Faramir, “without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.”.
      If an off-topic comment or subthread doesn’t pique my interest…I simply don’t read it, skip over it, or refrain from clicking on the grey spoiler cover. I assume everyone else has the same options.

      At the same time, I do appreciate being exposed to shows, films and music recommended and discussed by other commenters.

      Anyway, at this juncture, there’s not a whole lot of HotD news to analyze. Nor have there been any substantive ASOIAF updates from the Big Kahuna to ignite serious discussions or generate worthwhile speculation.

      The real world has been a Dystopian hellscape; I’d rather read everyone’s comments here than watch the latest outrage on TV news, or read alternative facts spewed by science-deniers in the newspaper. (Don’t mind me. I’m in Florida: the epicenter of Covid-19 and the superspreading morons who pretend it doesn’t exist. 😡)

        Quote  Reply

    79. Ten Bears,

      While I don’t know what’s involved in monitoring Discord group texts and chats, might it be a bit presumptuous to expect them to take on even more work and responsibilities?

      A Discord would be a 24/7 thing to monitor since chat is instant and all the time (even on slow mode) — it’s a different dynamic because of that. It’s not like a forum or a board where we post more intermittently in a more-organized-thought-fashion, it’s an instant back and forth. It’s more like group texting and sometimes, yeah, things can get pretty heated — no matter how civil the group can be. Conversation can also be more difficult to follow if the chat is active due to the slew of text.

      I think that’s one of the drawbacks of Discord vs a forum or board.

      If a group “Discord” chat is anything like YouTube comments sections, wouldn’t it take just one or two “trolls” or sh*tposters to turn a group chat or text string into a cesspool of non-stop back and forth name-calling and personal insults?

      And that’s why I think a pretty solid admin team would probably need to be on top of things. Even without such, even the most civil groups can succumb to disagreements and arguments since we’re all human. I think these would need fair and neutral moderation just to keep things under control and to keep the space feeling okay for all.

      A dedicated Forum Page might be a more appropriate place for that.

      I agree. A forum would probably be the most appropriate but I also think, when things get quiet here due to lack of news, it can be nice to have a natural break.

      If an off-topic comment or subthread doesn’t pique my interest…I simply don’t read it, skip over it, or refrain from clicking on the grey spoiler cover. I assume everyone else has the same options.

      I think so too. And I think using the spoiler codes to hide OT conversation can help people not interested in such to scroll through threads faster.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Adrianacandle,

      [Your reply to my 3:33 pm comment*):
      ”Thank-you so much! I’m familiar with quite a few of these songs and they would be perfect bouncers!! 😀”

      * From my 3:33 pm Comment:
      “…I would have included another “trampoline song”

      – a bookend to “All Through the Night”/at the end of The Long Night…”

      Bookend coming soon. I’m trying to decide between a live version, a studio (audio) version, or both. I also realized it’s got a cat lyric too. (”Scat, alley cat!” )

        Quote  Reply

    81. Adrianacandle,

      and Ten Bears – and everyone really, I tried to use the forums recently but when I had made the post I was asked to sign in BUT I WAS ALREADY SIGNED IN. I tried to report the problem to the mods and was told to sign in. DoM gave up in frustration.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Dame of Mercia,

      I totally got what you meant! I think the forums these days are kind of on sabbatical.

      Ten Bears: Bookend coming soon. I’m trying to decide between a live version, a studio (audio) version, or both. I also realized it’s got a cat lyric too. (”Scat, alley cat!” )

      Looking forward to it!

      Quoted cat lyric reminded me of Pheobe Buffay’s Smelly Cat from Friends… and that music video XD

        Quote  Reply

    83. Adrianacandle,

      I was looking for clips from S8e3, “The Long Night,”

      to set the stage for the bookend musical interlude (which I believe also qualifies as a bouncy trampoline song, at least the way it was performed live with high energy).

      Because of the two-link limit threshold, I’ll post these links to two S8e3 clips here.

      I also noticed something that I missed when the episode aired, and had a question about it…

      From S8e3:
      • Mel shows up, checks in with Davos, and reassures him: “There’s no need to execute me, Ser Davos. I’ll be dead before the dawn.” [1:58 long clip]:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg_2FWv7_eki

      Gah!!! I’m just now noticing today for the very first time that

      right after Melisandre tells Davos she’ll be dead before dawn, she spots Arya and stares at her with a knowing look – for a long time. [At 1:35 – 1:58]
      Maybe my TV screen was too dark to see that. Maybe I was distracted in the absence of dialogue. Maybe I was “watching but not seeing,” as Syrio might say.

      If I had seen that exchange of strange looks between them at 1::35 to 1:58, I definitely would have thought for sure that Arya was going to whack the Red Bitch – I mean Red Witch.

      Q: How did you interpret that stare-down?
      Q:

      In retrospect, I’m wondering if we were supposed to think that Mel would be dead before dawn because Arya was going to kill her… and instead our expectations were “subverted” when Mel became Arya’s head cheerleader.
      So, was Mel’s long stare after recognizing Arya supposed to indicate she had a premonition about TPTWP who’d bring the dawn?

      (Sorry to go off on tangents. I was just curious what the showrunners intended.

      • At the end of The Long Night, the episode concludes with the first light of dawn early in the morning: 🌃

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMWml2OL2Sk

      (to be continued)

        Quote  Reply

    84. Ten Bears,

      My thought was (especially from Arya’s look) there is obvious tension because Mel is still on Arya’s (show) list and this is the first time Arya has seen Mel since that time. So naturally, there would be that bit of an awkward factor 😉

      In retrospect, I’m wondering if we were supposed to think that Mel would be dead before dawn because Arya was going to kill her… and instead our expectations were “subverted” when Mel became Arya’s head cheerleader.

      Honestly, that thought didn’t really enter my head because I always thought Mel’s fate would be linked to the Long Night in some way. When I first watched that scene and saw the look, I simply interpreted that look as visible tension between the two considering their last meeting.

      Sorry to go off on tangents. I was just curious what the showrunners intended.

      I don’t recall the showrunners speaking specifically about that look but this is only my impression of that look between the two. Admittedly, I didn’t think very deeply about it though.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Adrianacandle,

      • About Melisandre

      & Arya meeting again in S8e3:
      – I’m not complaining about how it unfolded. I rather liked that the show didn’t resort to a cliched “mean girls” encounter. (I was worried the conversation between the two women would dredge up their respective carnal encounters with a certain steelsmith.)
      – I’m probably overanalyzing incidental details to make something out of nothing.
      – It’s just that I found it a bit jarring – though not in a bad way – with the revelation that Beric was
      brought back six times for the express purpose of protecting the Lord of Light’s Chosen One, so she could single-handedly end the Long Night and bring the dawn; and that instead of resuming their roles as antagonists with personal scores to settle, Melisandre wound up as Arya’s head cheerleader, delivering an inspirational speech to Arya to fulfill her destiny.
      (“You were right about shutting eyes forever and meeting again.”/ “Yes. Yes I was. Now, go do that thing you do, tell the God of Death to f*ck off, and win one for the Gipper!* Rah, rah, rah!”
      * Sorry. Obscure reference to classic speech of college football head coach Knute Rockne.

      • Obviously, here is the scene I’m referring to:

      (S8e3 Melisandre, Beric, Arya & Sandor [4:25 long clip])
      Mel, at 2:40 – 3:05 (as Beric perishes): “The Lord of Light brought him back for a purpose. Now that purpose has been served.” (Camera immediately cuts to…Sandor Clegane? 🐕)
      Mel, at 3:25 – 3:30 “And here we are, at the end of the world.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcYrboK1ijs

      • ⚠️ ARLTA Detour Ahead🚂🛤

      (“All Roads Lead to Arya”
      When Mel, after finally meeting up again with her enemy/frenemy Arya, announced “here we are, at the end of the world,” I flashed on an analogous scene between Time Lord Dr. Who and Ashildr/Lady Me from S9e12 of Doctor Who [1:52 long clip: Dr. Who and Ashildr/Me meet again], “at the end of everything…” (at 0:27) “at the end of time itself.” (at 0:43)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAAc6qBty8g

      Spoiler:

      The rest of that scene, and the concluding scenes from that season-ending episode of Dr. Who, resolve their little tiff quite amicably.

      Her character

      , like Arya, gets her own (space-)ship and sets off on new adventures – leaving the door open for possible sequels or spin-offs.

      – End Detour ✅

        Quote  Reply

    86. Ten Bears,

      I’m not complaining about how it unfolded. I rather liked that the show didn’t resort to a cliched “mean girls” encounter. (I was worried the conversation between the two women would dredge up their respective carnal encounters with a certain steelsmith.)

      No no, I didn’t think you were complaining at all — just offering your impressions and thoughts on this scene and look between the two. I was only giving you my impression in turn 🙂

      I also find myself treading very carefully in regard to a certain season so I try to pick my words carefully, especially when things are quiet like they are now with no new news and sensitivity to season 8 is still comparable to a hair-trigger (pro and anti both). I think this topic segues into another that’s been done to death (in my opinion) and… yeah. I’ve got my thoughts, which I’ve spoken about before (and I can email you to give a refresher!) but my concern is sparking that debate again because I don’t think we’ll be going anywhere new, productive, or interesting.

      But on the topic of interesting…

      I flashed on an analogous scene between Time Lord Dr. Who and Ashildr/Lady Me from S9e12 of Doctor Who [1:52 long clip: Dr. Who and Ashildr/Me meet again], “at the end of everything…” (at 0:27) “at the end of time itself.” (at 0:43)

      That is interesting and a great comparable scene! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    87. Adrianacandle,

      (Continued from previous Comment with link to S8e3 scene: “At at end of The Long Night, the episode concludes with the first light of dawn early in the morning.”)

      Bookend Musical Interlude

      After The Long Night (🎶”All through the night, I’ll be awake…”🎶), there’s…

      Early in the Morning

      •Cyndi Lauper with Allen Toussaint, live on the Late Show with David Letterman, June 14, 2010

      The “cat” lyric is at 1:36: “🎶…She began to shout, ‘Scat, alley cat!’”🎶

      I chose this live version in part because I really enjoyed the piano playing of the legendary Allen Toussaint*, and I liked the all-around high energy, upbeat performance of a classic blues song.

      * As far as I can tell, there’s no relation between Allen Toussaint and Steve Toussaint, recently cast in HotD as Lord Corlys Velaryon, aka “The Sea Snake.”

      There’s another live version that’s probably just as good, and also features many of the renowned blues musicians who played on the album version, including Charlie Musselwhite on the harmonica:

      Early in the Morning live 2010, from “To Memphis, with Love” [4:09]

      On the album version, B.B. King plays guitar and sings the refrain (“Early in the morning!”). It’s more of a duet between Cyndi Lauper and B.B. King, and isn’t quite as bouncy as the live versions. (Well, you certainly don’t get to see Cyndi Lauper lounging on top of the piano, before dancing and singing to an audience with the voice and vivacity of someone half her age (57).)💃
      This may just about do it for my months-long trip down a Cyndi Lauper rabbit hole. 🐇 🕳
      Next up? Maybe a dive into the Pretenders, leading to a Tasha the Destroyer dedication.😁

        Quote  Reply

    88. Ten Bears,

      Oh, awesome links! Thank-you so much for these!

      I do have an OT question for you btw:

      I’m finding my spray paint cracking when I apply it. Would you know why? The first time, I think I figured out the issue. I was spraying when the temp in the garage was -35C. Dad warned me about not spraying when the temp was below 5C but since it was coming from Dad, I ignored him as per usual.

      But when I sprayed again with the temp at 10C, I experienced another issue of cracking. Now, before this, I had wiped the surface with some super sticky tack cloth (way too sticky, I think, and way sticker than what you’d find at Home Depot, Lowe’s, or Rona) I got off of Amazon. Could the residue have contributed to crackage?

      Thanks, TB!!

      Darn. I wonder why whenever I edit a comment with an embedded link to a video, the thumbnail image then shows up in the edited comment instead of the blue-font link.

      I’ve experienced the same thing. I think this is randomized. When I loaded the page now, I saw the video thumbnails! But sometimes, I just see them as blue links.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Adrianacandle,

      Oh yes!

      I think I can explain causes of cracking, peeling and “orange peel” on paint finishes, and how to avoid them. (I learned the hard way: through bad experiences.) Give me a little while to summarize my tips.
      P.S. Side note for now: Although paint cans give you recommended outside temperature ranges (and humidity levels) It’s not so much the outside temperature that can affect the finish: It’s the temperature of the paint itself.
      Some hobbyists living in cold climates, or painting in wintertime, suggest warming the spray paint can in a pot of warm (not boiling!) water; walking around with the can in your pocket for a few hours so your body temperature warms it up; and “taking your paint to work” during the day (and setting it on the dashboard during the commute).

      To be cont.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Ten Bears,

      Omg, Ten Bears, thank-you for even just giving me one way so far to avoid spray paint cracking!

      And I can definitely snuggle a paint can! I’ll try that first. I’ve also tried doing away with the tack cloth altogether and going with plain cheesecloth dipped in clean water to wipe away any rogue lint, stray hairs, and sanding dust if I need to sand away a blemish.

      One of my challenges is that I have a ragdoll cat, a breed which has very fine fur much like a rabbit’s and her fur definitely loves to float. Her fur gets on everything and in everything, even my eyelashes, so when I come to the garage to spray, at least a fraction of her fur comes with me — despite her never being permitted in the garage.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Adrianacandle,

      P.S. Off-Topic

      What kind and color(s) of primer, base coats (if any) and top coats are you using?
      That can make a HUGE difference.
      (If you’ve ever used fluorescent yellow or green paint, you’d know what I mean. Even when carefully applied over a gloss base coat, as these colors dry they recede as if the Red Sea was parting for the Children of Israel to cross over.)
      Cracking and bubbling and “orange peel” problems are often paint-type and -color specific, and depend on drying times between coats. For instance, gloss black is very forgiving. However, other colors and shades can be temperamental: a few minutes too soon between first and second coat, and the top coat starts dissolving or melting the bottom coat, releasing air bubbles (and destroying the entire finish). A few minutes too late, and the bottom coat has already started to set so that the new coat causes it to wrinkle instead of adhering to it.
      More on this later…Geez, I’ve got so many painting-related war stories and horror stories I could tell. (Self-reminder: Don’t forget tragicomic tales of boiling and exploding decanted spray paint.👨‍🎤)

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ten Bears,

      Thank-you for looking into this for me!

      I’m using this paint (Rust-Oleum in apple red gloss) on a Kilz oil-based primer (also spray) because the piece being painted is cut from MDF board.

      I’ve been okay with this paint until very recently. My top coat is Krylon clear gloss (I’ll go downstairs later to check on the exact type) and that’s been okay too. I only ran into issues when the temperature dropped to face-freezing levels and I used the awful Amazon tack cloth 🙁

      Don’t forget tragicomic tales of boiling and exploding decanted spray paint.👨‍🎤

      !!!!!! O_O

        Quote  Reply

    93. Adrianacandle,

      PPS Off-topic

      About the “tack cloth” residue? I’m not sure. I try to use lint-free microfiber cloths or cut up “high thread count” cotton tee shirts to wipe off dust before painting. (Sometimes I’ll slightly moisten the cloth in denatured alcohol IF I’m top coating a completely dried and cured enamel undercoat that’s accumulated dust over several weeks or longer.)

      I don’t know enough about the tack cloths you’re using. If they leave any kind of residue, I figure that can’t be good…
      Subthread on floating cat hair and bird dander to follow…

        Quote  Reply

    94. Adrianacandle,

      Hmmm.

      I’ve used that Rustoleum Apple Red gloss enamel, with no problems. However, I try to avoid mixing and matching brands (ie primers + base coats + top coats + clear coats).
      I think even slight differences in formulations can cause problems – unless you give a surface a few weeks to dry before painting over it with a different brand.
      (Q: Do you dry- or wet-sand between coats?)
      Anyway, more to come later… including decanted paint eruptions.👨‍🎤

        Quote  Reply

    95. Adrianacandle,

      Sorry. Off-Topic.

      Another self-reminder for later: “Counterintuitive” techniques, eg “coat” = several fine mists a few minutes apart instead of trying to completely cover the surface. Details to follow.
      (I’m realizing I could write an ASOIAF-length series on painting f*ck-ups I’ve made in my lifetime…)

        Quote  Reply

    96. Ten Bears,

      Thank-you, thank-you so much for these tips! I’m receiving your messages while on the go and making note of your tips!

      Unfortunately, the tack cloth did leave a gluey residue but I like the idea of microfibre clothes. I’ll order some from Amazon and reserve them for woodworking use. How do you clean them?

      Also, yes, I’m dry sanding 🙂

      I unfortunately wasn’t able to find what I needed in the same brand but Kilz and Krylon have been playing fine with the Rust-Oleum until a few days ago 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    97. Adrianacandle,

      Quick reply:

      Wash microfiber towels separately (no clothes) in washing machine with warm water; dry separately in dryer or line dry. (Microfiber towels WILL pick up loose fibers from garments if you wash or dry them together.)
      Also: I wet sand only when it comes to painted surfaces. Otherwise you’re just grinding dirt and dried paint particles back into the surface you’re trying to smooth and clean.
      I only dry sand bare wood or between coats of sanding sealer, ie before painting.
      Wet sanding conserves sandpaper too. Dry sanding painted surfaces causes sandpaper to “load up” quickly with paint particles, becoming unusable. Wet sanding keeps the surface and the sandpaper clean.
      Again, details to follow later.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Ten Bears,

      Questions re sanding:

      Are these what you mean by microfibre towels? Would these be okay?

      Second, does sanding paper have to be meant for wet sanding to wet sand? And to wet sand, do you just wipe a wet cloth over the surface and then sand lightly?

      With misting, is it just like a light dusting of the spray? ie. Would I just press my finger down on the nozzle ever so lightly?

      Thank-you so much!

        Quote  Reply

    99. off topic…

      This may be old news, since this article is January 11, but Maisie Williams has been cast as Pamela Rooke, a.k.a. punk icon Jordan in the FX series Sex Pistols.

      https://ew.com/tv/danny-boyle-sex-pistols-fx-series-maisie-williams-toby-wallace/

      And I got to wear my WotW John Snow costume last night at virtual Purim. It fit great, and my hair is so long, I didn’t need a wig. And I used a cool ZOOM filter to make my jaw a little squarer and make my beard growth a little darker. So thanks everyone! Loved the costume. I hope to wear it in person somewhere in 2022.

      This morning we had another PURIM service, and I was able to fly my Funko POP ICY Viserion in front of the camera and BOO Hamen! (something you do during Purim when you hear the bad guy’s name HAMEN)

      Sorry for the thread derailment..

        Quote  Reply

    100. Adrianacandle,

      (1) Short reply:

      I can’t open the Amazon link to microfiber towels without changing country location from US to Canada (dumb App). However, microfiber towels (or better yet microfiber cloths) would be for wiping off dust from dry, primed or painted surfaces before slapping on another coat.
      Slightly moistening the cloth with a little water is okay; it helps pick up the dust. I sometimes use denatured alcohol instead of water; supposedly it cleans and then quickly evaporates completely, whereas using even a little water requires waiting a little while to make sure the surface has dried completely. (And in those few minutes, tiny dust particles can accumulate again if they’re floating around the room.) But in general, going the extra mile and using denatured alcohol isn’t necessary.

      (2)

      Yes. For wet sanding, the sandpaper HAS to say “Wet or Dry,” or use similar wording. I believe 3M and Norton make the best quality Wet-or-Dry sandpaper. Usually but not always it’ll have a yellow colored backing, and a black grit sanding surface. As you might expect, those top quality wet or dry sandpapers are more expensive than generic brands or 3M’s bulk packs – but it’s worth the extra money – especially since wet-or-dry sandpaper can be reused if used for wet sanding. [See #3 below]

      (3)

      For what I believe are your purposes, wet sanding would involve more than just “wiping a wet cloth over the surface and then sanding lightly.” (I’ll try to send an email over the weekend with more detail.)
      Short version: You actually wet the sandpaper, and rinse it off frequently as you sand. At the same time (especially for wood and paper-constructed projects), to prevent your project from becoming waterlogged from water seeping through the sanded paint, you can/should frequently wipe the water off the surface with rags made from old high thread count, cut up cotton tee shirts.
      Keeping the sandpaper wet (and therefore lubricated), along with frequently rinsing the sandpaper and wiping off the surface, avoids grinding dirt and loosened debris back into the project’s surface – which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of finishing and painting a project to begin with.
      I know this all probably sounds complicated, arduous, and messy. It’s really not.
      By keeping sawdust, paint dust, and debris off primed surfaces and painted surfaces, wet sanding winds up saving lots of time, hassle, and extra work in the long run. And wet sanding greatly increases the effectiveness, longevity, and polishing capabilities of sandpaper. (Nothing like a mirror smooth finish, right?)
      Again, I’ll try to explain this in greater detail over the weekend.

      P.S.

      I think I enjoy discussing painting rockets 🚀 as much as if not more than ASNAWP and Sandor.

        Quote  Reply

    101. Tron79,

      ”This may be old news, since this article is January 11, but Maisie Williams has been cast as Pamela Rooke, a.k.a. punk icon Jordan in the FX series Sex Pistols.”

      Wait, what??? How did I miss that? I don’t think that upcoming role is listed in her IMDB. (I had recently commented – and commended MW – for following through on her expressed intent to take time off following GoT, and enjoy life for a while.)

      Well, thanks for that update!
      #ARLTA

        Quote  Reply

    102. Ten Bears,

      Thank-you so much for all of this, Ten Bears.

      About an hour ago, the rocket fell from the stool I had it perched on and the fin splintered off completely — not a clean break, more like pulled pork if that makes sense. So I had a mental breakdown because I need to move in two weeks and I only have garage access for those two weeks and I’ve put a year into this thing already with problem after problem after problem.

      However, I’m going to try and start again, cut a new one tomorrow on the laser. It’s attempt #3 now.

      So I’ll start fresh with your suggestions. Wet sanding with paper meant for wet sanding, wiping with denatured alcohol (is rubbing alcohol okay?), using expoxy that can be cleaned up with acetone for glue, getting a fresh set of microfibre cloths to be stored in a plastic ziplock and used for woodworking purposes only.

      Now, when rinsing off sanding paper, can this be done in a jar or do I have to upstairs to the kitchen and back down to my garage each time?

      Anyway, thank-you so much for this. I’m going to do a sob and sweep of the garage now and lay down fresh new tarps to avoid old paint flakes flying about before ordering the appropriate supplies. Wet sanding paper. New spray primer. New spray paint. New tarps. Maybe a new soul since this rocket has already taken mine.

      Thank-you so much for helping me with all this. I’m really glad you enjoy talking about this with me. I think your suggestions will make the next one go smoother.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Ten Bears,

      Yeah this is exciting news! I think Maisie will be fantastic because this role combines her sense of fashion, her singing voice (remember Let it Go?) and her ability to emote an attitude!
      I’m not sure when it will be released.

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ten Bears,

      Off-topic sanding discussion:

      For what I believe are your purposes, wet sanding would involve more than just “wiping a wet cloth over the surface and then sanding lightly.” (I’ll try to send an email over the weekend with more detail.)
      Short version: You actually wet the sandpaper, and rinse it off frequently as you sand. At the same time (especially for wood and paper-constructed projects), to prevent your project from becoming waterlogged from water seeping through the sanded paint, you can/should frequently wipe the water off the surface with rags made from old high thread count, cut up cotton tee shirts.
      Keeping the sandpaper wet (and therefore lubricated), along with frequently rinsing the sandpaper and wiping off the surface, avoids grinding dirt and loosened debris back into the project’s surface – which would kind of defeat the whole purpose of finishing and painting a project to begin with.
      I know this all probably sounds complicated, arduous, and messy. It’s really not.
      By keeping sawdust, paint dust, and debris off primed surfaces and painted surfaces, wet sanding winds up saving lots of time, hassle, and extra work in the long run. And wet sanding greatly increases the effectiveness, longevity, and polishing capabilities of sandpaper. (Nothing like a mirror smooth finish, right?)

      I ordered 400/600/1000 grit WetSand sanding paper just now, as well as a bunch of edgeless microfibre cloths, a spray bottle to wet and rinse the sandpaper, and I was able to find Rust-Oleum clear coat to go with my Rust-Oleum paint.

      Would rubbing alcohol (the kind I can find at the pharmacy) be suitable? I like the idea of having the surface dry quickly.

      Would this link look like what you’re referring to wrt wet sanding process?

      Thanks again, Ten Bears. So much.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Adrianacandle,

      Oh, I like talking about rocket building and painting! It helps me relive my childhood – if I ever left it.

      Plus, I think I have a sandpaper addiction. (Do they have a 12-Step Program for that? I keep ordering more every time I’m on Amazon though I already have more than enough.

      For now,

      let me address some of your recent comments and questions:
      [spoiler]I think I know what you mean by a “pulled pork” break. But can’t you fix that? Wouldn’t you be able to wedge the pieces back together, using wood glue or wood epoxy to glue them back in place, fill in any gaps with Elmer’s Carpenter’s Wood Filler, and then sand the seams smooth? Then again, sometimes it is easier just to cut a new piece…

      About wet sanding, you wrote:
      ”I’ll start fresh with your suggestions. Wet sanding with paper meant for wet sanding, wiping with denatured alcohol (is rubbing alcohol okay?), using expoxy that can be cleaned up with acetone for glue, getting a fresh set of microfibre cloths to be stored in a plastic ziplock and used for woodworking purposes only.

      Now, when rinsing off sanding paper, can this be done in a jar or do I have to upstairs to the kitchen and back down to my garage each time?”

      • I should’ve clarified that I only bother with denatured alcohol when removing dust from a partially painted piece that’s been sitting around for a while, eg, when I’ve painted the base color and waited several weeks before masking off parts of it to spray or brush on another color.
      I don’t use denatured alcohol in between coats during initial painting, though I guess it could work? I haven’t tried that.
      • I wouldn’t know about using rubbing alcohol. I guess it’d be okay? I’ve never tried that either.
      • I like wood epoxy, eg JB Weld. Only drawback: very short work time. It sets in about five minutes, and fully cures within 5-6 hours, I think. While it is sandable, it dries hard as a rock and sanding it down is a chore unless you’ve got a power sander.

      Power Sander…Power Sandor Clegane.🐓🐓

      • Okay, about rinsing sandpaper, here are two ways I’ve done it:
      (1) At my kitchen sink, with a thin stream of water running from the faucet. I’m careful enough so that runoff water containing sanded off paint doesn’t stain the sink. If any runoff happens to puddle on the floor of the sink, I have a bunch of paper towels ready to wipe it up.
      (2) A large bowl with water for “dipping.” I use this method when I work outside, on my balcony table. I guess you’d have to change the water if it gets too cloudy. Usually I finish what I’m doing before that happens. (However I suspect your projects are much larger than mine, and have much greater surface area to sand.
      (3) I suppose a jar could work. It depends how cloudy/dirty the water gets.
      Don’t forget the high thread count, lint-free cotton rags. I use them to (frequently) wipe the water and debris off the sanded surface.
      I don’t bother washing these rags. Usually I throw them away, because once they’re stained with enamel paint – even from just wiping off water containing tiny paint flecks – it’s difficult to clean the rags.
      By the way, paper towels or tissues aren’t an adequate substitute. They both leave lint fibers, and disintegrate too easily.
      (I have a stockpile of “retired” high quality 100% cotton tee shirts, partly from my fashion-conscious sister. After a tee shirt starts getting slightly threadbare or gets a slight blemish, into the rag closet it goes.)

      Not sure about “tarps.”[spoiler]

      Always good to have acetone handy – whether to thin or clean up enamel paint, to clean paint brushes, or to thin and clean epoxy before it cures.

      Last comments for now about wet sanding:
      – This always seemed counterintuitive until I tried it: I’d always been reluctant to wet sand a nice gloss finish I’d spray painted on; even after extra fine 1000 grit – 2,000 grit sandpaper, the once-shiny surface was now dull and hazy. But with just one application of gloss enamel clear coat the luster comes back better than ever.
      – Wet sanding (while wiping off water frequently) is really good for smoothing down sandable primer.
      – The purpose of dipping the sandpaper in water is to lubricate it, and to be able to wipe off particle-laden films of water from the project’s surface. It’s not to drench what you’re working on.
      – Obviously, wet sanding usually isn’t good for use on bare wood.
      I have used it on metal, eg when I was restoring an old, rusted out hammer, a rusty bolt cutter, and metal parts of a faded old motor scooter. (Vinegar bath takes off most of the rust. Sandpaper can do the rest.) Of course. you gotta be careful to dry the metal quickly so as not to allow new layers of rust to form.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Adrianacandle,

      I watched that linked video.

      It’s kind of what we’re discussing insofar as using water as a lubricant for wet sanding, BUT keep in mind he was wet-sanding and buffing out shallow scratches from a car’s finish, using 2000 grit sandpaper before using his handheld electronic gadgets to apply compound and some kind of bottled polish.
      So I guess he was essentially touching up an existing paint finish, rather than prepping something for painting, and then painting and clear-coating it.
      (If that makes sense.)

        Quote  Reply

    107. Ten Bears,

      OT sanding discussion con’t…

      I think I know what you mean by a “pulled pork” break. But can’t you fix that? Wouldn’t you be able to wedge the pieces back together, using wood glue or wood epoxy to glue them back in place, fill in any gaps with Elmer’s Carpenter’s Wood Filler, and then sand the seams smooth? Then again, sometimes it is easier just to cut a new piece…

      I think starting fresh is best, considering all the problems I’ve been having that I can avoid this time around (like not using polyurethane glue — that messed me up big time). And third time’s a charm, right? I already made adjustments to the pattern, which will save me from having to drill in mounting holes.

      Yes, I’d ideally want to salvage the piece but the problem is the part of the fin that split completely splintered. Consequently, the pieces themselves are very thin, weak, and feel like cardboard (it is MDF — and not just MDF but Superlite MDF).

      Thanks for your sanding process and the clarification on the alcohol! I can try to wipe down some painted test pieces with alcohol to see if the coat would crack.

      Don’t forget the high thread count, lint-free cotton rags. I use them to (frequently) wipe the water and debris off the sanded surface.
      I don’t bother washing these rags. Usually I throw them away, because once they’re stained with enamel paint – even from just wiping off water containing tiny paint flecks – it’s difficult to clean the rags.

      I’d love to use these rags but sadly, I have no cotton-based tees. The closest I have to tees are oversized fleece hoodies. Well, I have old paint stained Walmart nightshirts and PJ pants that are about ready for retirement — would those work?

      By the way, paper towels or tissues aren’t an adequate substitute. They both leave lint fibers, and disintegrate too easily.

      Yes. I learned that the hard way in my varnish adventures 🙁

      Not sure about “tarps.”

      Tarps would only be used for protecting the walls and floor from the spray paint 🙂 I hadn’t changed them out since last April so it was time. And it’ll have me start fresh and clean, I think.

      I’m looking forward to trying out wet sanding. I’ll be priming the MDF with an oil-based primer to protect the piece from water and avoid swelling and then, after a few coats, I wet sand that down?

      It’s kind of what we’re discussing insofar as using water as a lubricant for wet sanding, BUT keep in mind he was wet-sanding and buffing out shallow scratches from a car’s finish, using 2000 grit sandpaper before using his handheld electronic gadgets to apply compound and some kind of bottled polish.
      So I guess he was essentially touching up an existing paint finish, rather than prepping something for painting, and then painting and clear-coating it.
      (If that makes sense.)

      It does!

      I wondered if it showed the basic process of wet sanding? (ie. wetting the paper itself, wiping with a rag)

      Wet sanding does sound more efficient than dry sanding.

      And thanks for your thoughts on epoxy! I think avoiding expanding polyurethane glue and cleaning up residue with acetone upon clamping will help out a lot this time around!

      Thank you *so* much again!

        Quote  Reply

    108. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      Yeah this is exciting news! I think Maisie will be fantastic because this role combines her sense of fashion, her singing voice (remember Let it Go?) and her ability to emote an attitude!
      I’m not sure when it will be released.

      • Well, according to this deadline.com article from January [link + excerpts below], production on this six-episode series will begin on March 7.
      I didn’t see anything about her singing though.

      • I noticed that an actress, Sydney Chandler, has been cast to play Pretenders’ lead singer Chrissie Hynde.*

      https://deadline.com/2021/01/danny-boyle-fx-sex-pistols-steve-jones-maisie-williams-toby-wallace-1234670899/amp/

      deadline.com Jan. 12, 2021
      Danny Boyle To Direct FX Limited Series On Sex Pistols Guitarist Steve Jones; Maisie Williams & Toby Wallace Among Cast

      “… Boyle will direct and executive produce the six-part series, which is titled Pistol…
      Babyteeth actor Toby Wallace stars as Jones, while Game of Thrones star Maisie Williams has joined the cast as punk icon Jordan.”
      ***
      “Other cast includes…Sydney Chandler (Don’t Worry Darling) as Chrissie Hynde.”

      *

      And that will suffice as a pretext for the next Musical Interlude.
      #ARLTA

        Quote  Reply

    109. Musical Interlude
      Dedicated to Gendry, from Sandor

      (From S7e6, at 0:42):
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8fem_aVbgI

      Sandor: “So what are you whinging about?
      Gendry: “I’m not whinging!”
      Sandor: ”Your lips are moving and you’re complaining about something. That’s whinging. This one’s been killed six times. You don’t hear him bitching about it.”
      ➖➖➖➖➖
      🎶 ”It is time for you to stop
      all of your sobbing
      Yes it’s time for you to stop
      all of your sobbing oh oh oh.”
      ”🎶

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTVqZNObw5o

      “Stop Your Sobbing” (1979)
      Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders

        Quote  Reply

    110. Ten Bears,

      It might not have said anything about her singing, but I’m guessing there will have to be a number of band performances. It’s pretty common for the actors to sing nowadays. And we know Maisie has a voice. I remember Kristen Stewart played Joan Jett in “The Runaways”. I thought she did a nice job singing and playing guitar in that movie.

        Quote  Reply

    111. Tron79,

      Maisie Williams appears to get top billing in

      the headline of that 1/12/21 deadline.com article I linked above:

      Danny Boyle To Direct FX Limited Series On Sex Pistols Guitarist Steve Jones; Maisie Williams & Toby Wallace Among Cast”

      However, there’s no indication that she has a lead role or if she’s in a limited, supporting role. Either way, I guess it’ll be good to see her take on (what appears to be) a different kind of role other than medieval super ninja, comic book superhero, sci fi immortal time space traveler, or survivalist super hero. [Not that I’m complaining.]

      I am a little wary of pop music historical series, especially after HBO’s much-hyped, big-name series “Vinyl” flamed out after only one season.

      (I’m glad I didn’t start watching it, though before I learned it was canceled I had been looking forward to seeing Karsi in it.

      Also, the movie “Sid & Nancy” had told some of the story of the Sex Pistols. In any event, if production on the Danny Boyle-directed series commences next month perhaps there will be some updates in the near future about the prominence of MW’s character.

      P.S. I did a quick search for images

      of the character she’ll be playing, “punk icon Jordan.” The real Jordan doesn’t really resemble MW. She looks more like a Cyndi Lauper clone.

      .

        Quote  Reply

    112. Ten Bears,

      #ARLTCL
      (All roads lead to Cyndi Lauper)

      Seriously I think the show runners liked how Maisie has become a bit of a fashion icon herself. I think she will be able to rock the fashion punk look. The show does look it will focus more on the guitar player Steve since it’s based on his book. I think since Maisie is the lead singer, she has to have a big part of the drama of the band.

        Quote  Reply

    113. Sorry to come back on topic after such a long while, but one thing I’ve noticed on other online forums about casting a black actor to portray the badasses’ badass Corlys Velaryon…

      And a cry didst go up: “They have to make Harwyn Strong black as well!”

      Whit?

      Why?!?

      That’s like missing the WHOLE FUCKING POINT.

      I think it’s a stroke of genius from the producers to cast a black actor to play the badasses’ badass Corlys Velaryon. Because it makes a crucial plot point far more visually obvious than “a snub nose”.

      In the books, the Velaryons are of Valyrian descent but have been in Westeros longer than the Targaryeans. Never a dragonlord family, but they got to intermarry with one of the least mighty but also the last Valyrian dragonlord family, the Targaryeans, after the Doom, when the Targaryens found there wasn’t anybody “better” to marry/breed with.

      This is something I find so distasteful – and I think GRRM is intending us to do so – that the Valyrians/Targaryens, so beautiful, so powerful, are somehow “better” than ordinary people.

      That is plain race purity stuff, the kind that was floating around in the Western world in the 1930s. The “Aryan race” kind of stuff. Not many fantasy fans who cheer on their heroes think they’re actually cheering on the “übermensch” idea.

      Because best-known fantasy heroes are almost always anglo-speaking white men. It is understandable, the genre of “fantasy writing” blossomed and burgeoned in the English-speaking world…

      But at the same time, all the imaginative writing in other languages don’t have a voice. Who’s heard or Johanna Sinisalo or Emmi Itäranta? Yet they write better stuff, more beautifully than many American men with better business connections.

      GRRM, the old hippie, would never, I hope, subscribe to the racial purity obession of the Targaryens – shared by Dany, btw . He perhaps wants to point out how empty it all is, how wrong it all is, but how it all is still here and how it influences our own thought and world events

      Big bucks entertainment companies won’t go there. They’ll nod to “social justice” and “diversity” stuff but won’t address the real issues.

        Quote  Reply

    114. talvikorppi: This is something I find so distasteful – and I think GRRM is intending us to do so – that the Valyrians/Targaryens, so beautiful, so powerful, are somehow “better” than ordinary people.

      Some Valyrians/Targaryens do subscribe to this but not all, as I recall. Keeping Valyrian bloodlines pure was an ideal many held though, especially early on. However, I think the Targaryens themselves are pretty different and individual — as individual as any other family. I don’t remember D exuding ideas or plans that she had to retain blood purity herself (only that when she was among the Astapori refugees infected with the pale mare and she was trying to help them, she didn’t believe she could get sick). Yet, in regard to other Targaryens wanting to retain blood purity, there was also a belief that in keeping bloodlines “pure”, they could retain whatever enabled them to control dragons. Still, on that front, while many Targaryens have this ability, it’s unclear if all “dragonseeds” had Targaryen or Valyrian blood — like Nettles. Her heritage is unknown but she was able to tame a dragon nobody else could control.

        Quote  Reply

    115. As a quick aside…could this be a temporary fix to tie us over until “House Of The Dragon” comes out…what do you guys think about this?! Sorry to post the trailer here…but you guys have much keener eyes and better taste than…well anything I could come up on my own…LOL…

      “Shadow And Bone”…April, 2021…

        Quote  Reply

    116. Tron79,

      ”…The show [upcoming Sex Pistols series] does look it will focus more on the guitar player Steve since it’s based on his book.

      I think since Maisie is the lead singer, she has to have a big part of the drama of the band.

      I admit I am not familiar with the Sex Pistols,

      aside from Sid Vicious allegedly killing his girlfriend before overdosing himself

      , and I can’t say I’ve ever heard any of their songs. However,

      from old pictures I’ve seen I didn’t think the band had a female lead singer, did they? In fact – ⚠️#ARLTA Alert! – according to a quick Google search, MW’s “punk icon” character worked in a clothing store where the band liked to hang out. Where was that store located?

      The King’s Road.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Tron79,

      ”Seriously I think the show runners liked how

      Maisie has become a bit of a fashion icon herself. I think she will be able to rock the fashion punk look…”

      .

      I think and hope you’re right!

      From the pictures I’ve seen of “punk icon Jordan,” the Many-Faced Goddess could have a blast portraying a fashion daredevil.

      Side note:

      I’m still curious how Chrissie Hynde (of the Pretenders) fits into the story.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Mr Derp,

      🎶 Something different then:

      “Brass in Pocket” – Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders live rehearsal 1979

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz_hXg8J2ok
      Starting at 0:30: For some reason I’m entranced by the way she is smoking a cigarette and waving it around while she’s singing.

      “Brass Pocket” (1979) – The Pretenders [lip synched on “Top of the Pops” Jan. 1980]*

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU6KmmW38Aw
      [/spoiler]*The volume of the official music video on YouTube is too faint. I chose this lip-synched video instead.[/spoiler]

        Quote  Reply

    119. Ten Bears: “My Varnish Adventures” sounds like a good title for a miniseries.

      Ah, I nearly missed this! I’m afraid it did not go well, nor did my adventures in lasering yesterday -_- A tube essential to focusing the laser was broken and resulted in some disastrous cutting attempts. I can send you photos of the carnage. Check your WotW email tomorrow morning when my iPhone comes back from the Tasha the Destroyer triage.

      (This time, I did not smash my phone on the ground in despair and anger. Instead, it slipped out of my pocket onto the concrete floor as I went into the bathroom to cry. Very important difference!)

        Quote  Reply

    120. Ten Bears:
      Adrianacandle,

      I’ll check. So sorry about your mishaps.

      It’s okay. Another creator in the space reframed this as an expensive course in What Not to Do: Guaranteed Lessons That Stick because we’re already felt the pain of lost money, materials, and time as a result.

      I’m going to try again Tuesday with a Garnica plywood — supposed to be very consistent, study, strong, and lightweight. The MDF essentially started to disintegrate yesterday, lighting little tiny fires inside the material as it cut due to the unfocused laser beam — so you have swiss cheese edges with all the structural integrity of styrofoam.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Ten Bears,

      and this too:

      “Back on the Chain Gang” (1982)
      Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders
      “official music video” (3:46)

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMOKamtpUA8

      … and here she is 38 years later, five months ago:

      “Back on the Chain Gang” –
      Chrissie Hynde & The Pretenders
      live at home, Sept. 12, 2020

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOaCm91oy5M

      I’ll tell you, if this Covid Sh*tshow ever ends and life returns to normal I’m going to watch live music every weekend and savor every minute of it.

        Quote  Reply

    122. Tron79,

      (Follow up to 2/28/21, 11:16 pm comment)

      Here’s what I read in the Sex Pistols Wikipedia entry:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Pistols

      Excerpts:
      “The band members regularly hung out at two clothing shops on the King’s Road [including]… Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood’s Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die.….
      The shop became a focal point of the punk rock scene, bringing together participants such as the future Sid Vicious, Marco Pirroni, Gene October, and Mark Stewart, among many others….

      Jordan, the wildly styled shop assistant, is credited with “pretty well single-handedly paving the punk look”.

      If that Wikipedia description

      of Jordan is accurate, then I think you hit the nail on the head when you wrote:
      Seriously I think the show runners liked how Maisie has become a bit of a fashion icon herself. I think she will be able to rock the fashion punk look.”

      Come to think of it, I’d probably be more interested in a show about a clothing shop worker who single-handedly launches a fashion trend, than yet another rock band rise-and-fall tale.

      Although someone with more credentials in the fashion and music industries would be more qualified to weigh in on this, I wonder if “the punk look” has had a greater and longer influence on fashion than “the punk sound” has had on pop music.
      Anyway, from what I can tell, melding pop music with an eclectic sense of style, colorful costumes, and dazzling makeup and hairstyles, has been a reliable formula, especially with the advent of MTV. (I too liked Joan Jett in “The Runaways.” I also liked the scenes with Dakota Fanning as Cherie Currie experimenting with painting her face like David Bowie to create a “glam” look.)

      I hope that “Jordan” has a prominent storyline in the series and that MW has lots of screen time. It’d kind of suck if she’s being top-billed to generate hype and it turns out she’s only there for what amounts to a glorified cameo.

      #ARLTA

        Quote  Reply

    123. Adrianacandle,

      Off-topic reply:

      I wish I knew more about “synthetic” wood composites or whatever “MDF” is. I’m not familiar with “Garnica plywood.” However, I don’t trust plywood for crafts. No matter how careful I am, half the time plywood starts warping for no reason after it’s been glued in place.
      Similarly, I’ve learned the hard way not to use pinewood rods or dowels (e.g., for the shank glued into blocks of wood I sculpt using an electric drill as a lathe). Pine is too soft, and splits or snaps off too easily. I opt for oak wood instead.
      I’m curious though: If you’re trying Gurnica plywood because it’s supposed to be “consistent, strong, sturdy and lightweight,” is there a reason why natural wood wouldn’t qualify?
      Excuse my prejudices. I never know what’s in plywood, e.g., what chemicals or adhesives they use to bind layers. And whenever I try to glue something (e.g., sandpaper) onto plywood boards, or try to stack and glue plywood sheets together, they invariably warp even if I clamp or weight them down for weeks.
      End Anti-Plywood Rant

        Quote  Reply

    124. Ten Bears,

      Yes, I think Maisie’s fashion sense was a big part of why she got the role.
      I’m a little worried that her role may not be huge, because the series is based on
      Steve Jones’ book titled “Lonely Boy”. It’s going to be told from his perspective. It would be more interesting to me if it was told from Maisie’s POV!
      I did find a fun GOT link. The famous sex shop in the story is called The Kings Road. There’s alot out there about the punk scene on the Kings Road in London.

        Quote  Reply

    125. Ten Bears,

      Here’s a link explaining what Garnica plywood is 🙂

      I’ve seen it play really well with the laser, getting a nice, smooth, consistent and clean edge. There’s little bowing that I’ve seen. I’ve also seen that it machines really well. Should be better than the MDF at least and other laser vets have been happy with the Garnica stuff.

      As to why I can’t get pure wood, it doesn’t come in sheets wide or long enough for the piece :/ Pure wood is always ideal — when I cut and engrave thins (purple heart, ash, lacewood, rosewood, cherry, yellowheart, mahogony, etc.), it can do the most beautiful job. Especially cherry. Cherry doesn’t get nearly as sappy as ash or padauk. Yet, natural wood doesn’t come big enough by itself for this and I think it’d be out of my budget to get a enough hardwood pieces to glue together in order to make a surface large enough to cut 🙁

        Quote  Reply

    126. Tron79,

      At 8:57 am this morning you wrote:

      ”I did find a fun GOT link. The famous sex shop in the story is called The Kings Road. There’s alot out there about the punk scene on the Kings Road in London.”

      My comment last night at 11:16 pm, partially obscured by spoiler coding, noted that:

      ”In fact – ⚠️#ARLTA Alert! – according to a quick Google search, MW’s “punk icon” character worked in a clothing store where the band liked to hang out. Where was that store located?

      The King’s Road.”

      So in addition to the punk fashion clothing store

      on the King’s Road, is there also a sex shop in the Sex Pistols story

      named “The King’s Road”?

      I’m on the fence about TV shows and movies that feature actors portraying real-life figures, especially those who are still alive.

      HBO’s big one-and-done flame-out, “Vinyl,” cast actors as (young versions) of Alice Cooper, Stephen Stills, Jackson Browne, Jimmy Page, Jerry Lee Lewis, along with the late Otis Redding, Andy Warhol, Robert Goulet, Elvis, and Janis Joplin, to name a few. [I had read about this casting of historical rock figures inserted into the world of Vinyl’s fictional record company; I never did watch the show.] My cynical self dismisses this kind of thing as cheap stunt-casting if the actors don’t look, sound and behave like the real deal. Plus, it’s unrealistic to expect young actors to capture the charisma of the cultural icons they’re portraying.

      A few notable exceptions I can think of, at least in my opinion:

      Reese Witherspoon and Joaquin Phoenix as June Carter and Johnny Cash in “Walk the Line,” Val Kilmer as Jim Morrison in “The Doors,” and Kristen Stewart as Joan Jett in “The Runaways” (as you mentioned).

      P.S. Wouldn’t a show like

      The Sex Pistols series portraying real-life people have to get permission from, i.e., pay 💰 to, those folks?
      Wouldn’t the producers need a license, a release, or something so they don’t get sued? I don’t know how that works…

        Quote  Reply

    127. Ten Bears,

      Yes, the Kings Road was the shop and the street!
      Sorry I missed when you talked about it in your previous post.

      I can see where you are coming from with movies about people while they are still living. However, I watched a thing on Betty White last week. Betty is still very much alive, and I thought it was very nice to have a documentary about her career. Streets sometimes become a big issue. In my city Cincinnati they debated whether they should name a street after someone who was still living. We have Pete Rose Way that was named after Pete while he was still in his glory. This was before all of the betting on baseball stuff came out. However, for the town’s credit, we still have a Pete Rose Way!

      I did like The Runaways. I agree that both Kristen Stewart and Dakota Fanning were both very good.

      At the very least, Maisie’s new show should give you even more material for musical interludes!!

        Quote  Reply

    128. Tron79,

      In my city Cincinnati….”
      Oh good. Then I just so happen to have a musical interlude just for you in the rabbit hole I’m in. Stay tuned.

      ”I did like The Runaways. I agree that both Kristen Stewart and Dakota Fanning were both very good.”
      Full disclosure:

      I really admire Kristen Stewart. Though people dump on the “Twilight” movies – maybe for good reason – I thought she was fun to watch. (I was not on Team Edward or Team Jacob. Neither one of those stiffs deserved Bella Swan.) Oh, by the way, have you ever seen Kristen Stewart’s SNL “Tostino’s” parody commercial? I’m sure I saved the link…I’ll look for it.

      ”At the very least, Maisie’s new show should give you even more material for musical interludes!!
      I would hope so!

      It’d be such a missed opportunity if they don’t have her character dancing around in amazing outfits each week to a different classic punk/new wave song.* After all, she is a dancer. And a modern style icon playing a past style icon.
      Lots of GoT fans are going to tune in to that show just to watch her. I don’t think I recognized the names of any of the other actors.

      * Let’s say the show is set in 1975 to 1978.

      Wikipedia says the band formed in 1975 and lasted 2-1/2 years. Lemme think… What’d be a good song for her to bop around to from that time period. .Here’s one: Blondie, “Rip Her To Shreds” (1976)

      Production is supposed to start this month.

      I’m looking forward to set photos of ASNAWP in costume.

        Quote  Reply

    129. Ten Bears,

      Is Team Edward and Team Jacob a bit like Team Black and Team Green in HotD?

      I can say I never watched Twilight. Not sure why, but I never did. I did watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer though!

        Quote  Reply

    130. Tron79: Is Team Edward and Team Jacob a bit like Team Black and Team Green in HotD?

      No, not really. Team Black and Team Green is more an in-universe politics thing for who will end up on the Iron Throne.

      Meanwhile, the Twilight stuff was over who Bella would end up. I, myself, wasn’t a fan of Twilight or of Bella. I wouldn’t say it’s much like Buffy — Buffy fought vampires while wanting to be a normal girl and to live a normal life but she was required to be the slayer. Bella… well, pretty much the opposite of that 😉

      I think Twilight is more comparable to Vampire Diaries but in Vampire Diaries, vampires had the option of turning off their humanity since the pain of humanity was intensified upon becoming a vampire. Vampires would often opt to turn off their humanity to stop the pain. In Twilight, vampire humanity and having souls/no souls don’t seem to be a thing, as far as I recall. I did enjoy Vampire Diaries (well, the first three seasons of the TV series, whereafter it gets a bit ridiculous). However, Twilight is the first thing I saw Anna Kendrick in and I really like her 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    131. Tron79,

      Precisely.

      Tween Twilight fans
      divided themselves into two camps, depending on which of the two dweebs vying for Bella’s affections they supported: sullen vampire Edward or boring friend-zoned Jacob (who’d later find out he was a werewolf, and then “ imprinted” on Bella’s baby. Don’t ask. Bad Baby Drama 👶🏻 + Jumping the Shark 🦈)

      ”I can say I never watched Twilight. Not sure why, but I never did. I did watch Buffy the Vampire Slayer though!”

      As I recall, [spoiler]my little niece wanted to see the Twilight movies. So I watched them with her. The first one wasn’t bad. And there was Ashley Greene as Bella’s lady vampire buddy Alice, to distract me from emo Robert Pattinson.

      I have never watched an episode of Buffy. However,

      I believe Adrianacandle thought it was good, so someday I’ll binge-watch it.

      Hey, maybe HotD will be amazing, Big G will release TWOW and ADOS this year, and I’ll be too busy reading ASOIAF and rewatching HotD episodes to binge-watch other shows. 😬

        Quote  Reply

    132. Tron79,

      ⚠️

      #ARLTA Warning]

      Part 1 of 2

      • In my 2/27/21 at 4:23 pm Comment

      linking and excerpting a deadspin.com article about the Sex Pistols TV series, I wrote in part:

      “I noticed that an actress, Sydney Chandler, has been cast to play Pretenders’ lead singer Chrissie Hynde.

      “… Boyle will direct and executive produce the six-part series, which is titled Pistol…
      Game of Thrones star Maisie Williams has joined the cast as punk icon Jordan.”
      ***
      “Other cast includes…Sydney Chandler (Don’t Worry Darling) as Chrissie Hynde.”

      …..
      • On 2/28/21 at 11:32 pm, I wrote:
      “Side note:
      [spoiiler]I’m still curious how Chrissie Hynde (of the Pretenders) fits into the story.”

      My 3/1 8:09 am Comment quoted

      portions of the Sex Pistols’ Wikipedia page describing the clothing store on the King’s Road where Jordan (to be played by Maisie Williams) was the “wildly styled shop assistant”:

      The band members regularly hung out at two clothing shops on the King’s Road [including]… Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood’s Too Fast to Live, Too Young to Die.….
      The shop became a focal point of the punk rock scene, bringing together participants such as the future Sid Vicious, Marco Pirroni, Gene October, and Mark Stewart, among many others….

      Jordan, the wildly styled shop assistant, is credited with “pretty well single-handedly paving the punk look”.

      [To be continued in part 2…]

        Quote  Reply

    133. Adrianacandle,

      that sounds interesting (about those with souls and those without). I think when I used to see promos for Twilight, I saw alot of teenage guys so I never was that interested. I do remember watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer and seeing the original movie. I recall my dad used to like that series (along with Angel). It’s funny, i remember Paul Reubens Character Amilyn alot.

      As vampire series go, I was very into watching Being Human (the American version) when it came out. It wrapped up after it kind of jumped the shark too, but it was a decent ending if I recall.

      BTW, I hope your project is going well!

        Quote  Reply

    134. Tron79,

      Part 2: Continued from 2:12 pm

      ⚠️

      I had started down the Chrissie Hynde rabbit hole 🐇 🕳 before you alerted us to Maisie Williams being cast in the Sex Pistols TV series as Jordan, the “punk fashion icon” working in Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood’s clothes store.

      As I reiterated in my 3/1/21, 2:37 pm Comment

      ”In fact – ⚠️#ARLTA Alert! – according to a quick Google search, MW’s

      “punk icon” character worked in a clothing store where the band liked to hang out.

      Where was that store located?

      The King’s Road.”

      Okay, as I mentioned on 2/27 and again on 2/28,
      “I’m still curious how Chrissie Hynde (of the Pretenders) fits into the story.”

      Now I know:
      [from The Pretenders Wikipedia page]:

      “Hynde, originally from Akron, Ohio, moved to London in 1973, working at the weekly music paper NME and at Malcolm McLaren and Vivienne Westwood’s clothes store.”

      In other words, Chrissie Hynde worked together with

      MW’s character

      Jordan at the same clothes store on the King’s Road.

      That’s why a young version of Chrissie Hynde was cast alongside MW.

      Demonstrating once again that…

      ⚠️

      ”All Roads Lead to Arya.”

      Q.E.D.

        Quote  Reply

    135. I don’t want to stray too far from the topic of this thread but originally I thought of Katie Price, Jordan the former glamour model who would either have not been born or very, very young at the time of the Sex Pistols’ heyday. Maisie isn’t a bit like that Jordan. I’m glad to see Maisie getting parts because there were some who said she wouldn’t do so after GoT finished.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Tron79,

      Update: Jojen Reed cast in “Pistol” as King’s Road clothing shop co-owner/band manager Malcolm McLaren.

      March 3, 2021
      “It has also been confirmed today (March 3) that Thomas Brodie-Sangster will star as legendary Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren, while Tallulah Riley will tackle the role of design icon Vivienne Westwood…”

      https://www.nme.com/news/tv/heres-the-first-look-at-pistol-danny-boyles-sex-pistols-biopic-series-2892949

      #ARLTA

        Quote  Reply

    137. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      Update: Jojen Reed cast in “Pistol” as King’s Road clothing shop co-owner/band manager Malcolm McLaren.

      March 3, 2021
      “It has also been confirmed today (March 3) that Thomas Brodie-Sangster will star as legendary Pistols manager Malcolm McLaren, while Tallulah Riley will tackle the role of design icon Vivienne Westwood…”

      https://www.nme.com/news/tv/heres-the-first-look-at-pistol-danny-boyles-sex-pistols-biopic-series-2892949

      My rock history is for sh’t. I didn’t realize that Jordan wasn’t a singer in the band! She “attended” many of the sex pistol’s performances and was the style icon who worked in the shop..

      I’m happy for Jojen. Perhaps he can afford better food now than the infamous paste.
      He was very good in The Queen’s Gambit. He’s career looks like it’s on the rise.
      Gotta go for now…Work calls…

        Quote  Reply

    138. I think what made The Runaways popular was the attitude and the exciting fact that it was one of the few all-female rock bands at the time.

      In all honesty, I think their music itself was pretty terrible, although I do love me some Joan Jett.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Tron79,

      With “Pistols” filling out its cast with a good number of recognizable actors playing characters
      associated with punk “fashion,” it seems like the series isn’t going to be the run of the mill rock biopic. That’s good.

      I’m not so sure I’m enthralled with the story of another flash in the pan band + heroin.
      I admit I don’t know much about the Sex Pistols. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard any of their songs. I’ve been meaning to give a listen to some of them but I haven’t gotten around to it… As I’ve previously said, all I really knew about them is that Sid Vicious supposedly killed his girlfriend Nancy before overdosing himself. (And that came second-hand, from reading a review of a movie I’ve never seen, “Sid & Nancy” starring Gary Oldman.)

      I’m heartened by

      what looks like an effort to portray the cultural trendsetters the band hung out with, rather than just the band members themselves.

      Oh, as for that reference in the article that “Tallulah Riley will tackle the role of design icon Vivienne Westwood…”:

      I’m pretty sure she is the actress who played the quiet Bennett sister “Mary” to Jena Malone’s out of control “Lydia” and Carey Mulligan’s “Kitty” in Pride & Prejudice (the 2005 version starring Keira Knightley); she had a bit part in “Inception” as the blonde woman avatar conjured by Thomas Hardy; and I think she was in the early episodes of “Westworld” (before I stopped watching it).

      From everything I’ve read thus far, I’m more interested in the folks working in the clothes store than the guys in the band.

      I mean, they wouldn’t bring in MW and give her top billing if she were only going to have a bit part, would they?

      That’d be like signing Tom Brady to quarterback your team, and then relegating him to mop-up duty for a few minutes late in meaningless games.

      Yesterday’s article had the first two set photos, of the four band members. It shouldn’t be too long before we see some of the actresses in fabulous costumes, wild makeup and crazy hairstyles.

      At least we can look forward to seeing two GoT alumni in the series.

        Quote  Reply

    140. Mr Derp:
      I think what made The Runaways popular was the attitude and the exciting fact that it was one of the few all-female rock bands at the time.

      In all honesty, I think their music itself was pretty terrible, although I do love me some Joan Jett.

      I’m afraid I have to agree with you there.

      The Runaways’ appeal was more about Cherie Currie strutting around on stage in lingerie than on the music. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. (“Cherry Bomb” blows. Did they do anything else?).

      Yup. Joan Jett. 🖤

      (Get it? Blackheart?)

      Another timeless icon, still making music after all these years.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Aaaand…U2…which goes without saying have made my life’s soundtrack…LOL…I love this band to death…”The Unforgettable Fire”

        Quote  Reply

    142. And I’ll end with this before I turn this site into a music repository! Some may look down on this song and consider it too sappy…but a I love it, it is one of my favourite songs ever by a band that never got the recognition they deserved…

        Quote  Reply

    143. loco73:
      And I’ll end with this before I turn this site into a music repository! Some may look down on this song and consider it too sappy…but a I love it, it is one of my favourite songs ever by a band that never got the recognition they deserved…

      Such a great voice. ❤ I am the least likely person to like sappy songs, but I’ve always loved this one.

        Quote  Reply

    144. loco73:
      And this because too many people have always slept on Prince who I consider a musical genius and a guitar god…

      – Good video choice! Prince’s best song. I’ve always liked whatever those gymnastics/dance moves he’s doing at 1:50 – 2:10.
      – “Little Red Corvette” could launch a car-themed side thread if you’d like. (🎶”Well you’re built like a car, you’ve got a hubcap diamond star halo, you’re built like a car, oh yeah.”🎶)
      – Since you consider Prince a musical genius, you won’t mind if I link to song he wrote that were covered or performed by others, would you?

        Quote  Reply

    145. loco73:
      And this because too many people have always slept on Prince who I consider a musical genius and a guitar god…

      Prince’s song “When You Were Mine” performed by

      Cyndi Lauper, live, at the American Music Awards on Jan. 28, 1985

      [at 1:30 to 5:58 of 7:29 long clip]:

        Quote  Reply

    146. Tron79,

      Subthread (Re-)Location? 🚂

      Because in the upcoming “Pistols” series (1) our GoT alumni are going to portray “punk fashion icons” at the King’s Road clothing store of Malcom McLaren set in mid- to late 1970s London; and (2) I have not been bowled over by the Sex Pistols songs I’ve listened to so far, I’ve proposed we compile our own “wishful thinking,” period-appropriate soundtrack to accompany those scenes featuring clothing store owners/designers Malcolm McLaren (Thomas Brodie-Sangster aka Jojen Reed) and Vivienne Westwood, and “punk fashion icon” Jordan (Maisie Williams aka Arya Stark

      aka The Hero of Winterfell aka Mercy aka TPTWP aka ASNAWP aka ASNAWPTWP

      ).

      So as not to distract those commenters who may not be enthusiastic about this musical exercise, I suggest we post links to our nominated songs in the Comments Section of the prior post, “GRRM Waxes Melancholic…”

      Since the discussion thread under that prior post kind of ground to a halt after the most recent (HotD casting) post appeared, I figure anyone who wishes to participate in the “Pistols” wish list soundtrack discussion won’t have to worry about excessive off-topic thread derailment.

      Therefore, I’m going to be posting my musical suggestions (i.e., popular songs that might be heard in the background of a clothing establishment circa 1975-1980, and especially

      those with a connection to the historical fashion + music figures to be portrayed in the series, e.g., Malcolm McLaren, Chrissie Hynde, et al.

      , in the Comments Section under ”GRRM Waxes Melancholic…”.

      I invite anyone to join in. 🎶

      P.S.

      Obviously this diversion would have been uniquely suited for a page in the Forum Section, were it not for the difficulties many of us have had in registering for the Forum Section.

        Quote  Reply

    147. Ten Bears,
      yes, i’ve never been able to get approved for the forum. I can register then it never gets approved. I also have to use a VPN to change my IP address for this page, since WordPress has my main IP address blocked for some reason. I don’t recall doing anything, but maybe there was a link WordPress didn’t like for some reason.

      I have some catch up to do on this thread… I will read more in a bit…
      I do think that Maisie’s new adventures are news. I am happy to see threads here on WotW about new projects from GOT actors. I like to keep up with what they are doing. Jojen as well. I follow Maisie more than others as you know. BTW, I have to tell you about the CAMEO app where you can have actors send people personalized videos. There are a number of GOT actors on there. Not any of the really big ones like Maisie,et. all, but Syrio is on there and a number of others. For $50 to $100 + you can send a personalized video from your favorite star! It’s actually pretty awesome.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Tron79,

      ”I am happy to see threads here on WotW about new projects from GOT actors. I like to keep up with what they are doing…”

      • I keep looking for news about new projects from Rory McCann. The silence is stunning. If there is anyone who could monetize his popularity from GoT it would be The Hound. I guess he’s content being on his boat out in the middle of the ocean by himself, and doesn’t feel the urge to cash in.

      • In addition to the Jojen + Arya Game of Thrones-Pistols crossover, I came across this little tidbit:
      As a young man, Malcolm McLaren (to be played by Jojen/Thomas Brodie-Sangster) had apparently married one of his classmates so she could get a green card (or eligibility for citizenship), and maintained only a platonic relationship with her.
      A couple of years later, the woman gave birth to a daughter. Though he wasn’t the biological father and the child grew up with a different last name, the baby’s surname listed on the birth certificate was Malcomb’s last name.

      Anyway, that baby was Jodhi Mays. She became an actress, and played Maggy the Frog in the cold open to S5e1 of Game of Thrones:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwHGNoMjHn8

      Not quite #ARLTA,

      but a small world nonetheless.

        Quote  Reply

    149. Ten Bears,

      That’s interesting stuff about Maggie the Frog.

      Take a look at this Cameo site
      You can get personalized videos from pretty many GOT actors.
      Lena Headey is currently the only really big name person, but she’s not available. She’s expensive though at over $300. You can get Syrio for only $75. I would ask Ben Compton to welcome me to the Brotherhood as I take the Black.

      The video I got was from an actor from a soap that my wife and I watch all the time. He sent me a very cool personal birthday video message.

      https://www.cameo.com/search?q=game%20of%20thrones&qid=1614895138

        Quote  Reply

    150. Tron79,

      Thanks for that link to Cameo’s price list for personalized messages from GoT actors.

      I am seriously considering 3 or 4, and rejected several that are way overpriced. A few others would have to appear in full costume and makeup and re-enact an action sequence for me to shell out the amounts they want.

      Here are my tentative menu selections and comments:

      I. Likely

      Meryn F*cking Trant – $50
      (Ian Beattie)
      Comment: Well worth $50 to commission a video birthday greeting: “Too old.”

      Septa Unella – $42
      (Hannah Waddinghan)
      Comment: That’s easy. “Shame! 🔔
      Shame! 🔔 Shame!” 🔔

      II. Maybe

      Janos Slynt – $50
      (Dominic Carter)
      Comment: I’d have to think about an appropriate greeting – or farewell.
      Jeor Mormont – $50

      (James Cosmo)
      Comment: A bargain at $50. However I’d have to come up with a Jeor catch phrase or popular line.

      Young Hodor – $45
      (Sam Coleman)
      Comment: If he’ll squirm around on the ground with a seizure and repeat a word over and over, yeah maybe.

      Long-haired bare-chested – $35
      White Walker
      (aka Surfer Dude WW)
      Ross Mullen
      Comment: Yeah, he’d have to appear in full costume with prosthetic face for me to consider him.

      Miltos Y (Syrio) – $75
      Comment: Ordinarily I might shell out the $75 bucks; it might be more prudent to sign up for water dancing lessons at the next Con of Thrones

      III Overpriced

      Walder Frey (David Bradley): $250
      Comment: Seriously? The only way it’d be worth $250 is if

      he peeled off his face to reveal Maisie Williams.

      Pycelle (Julian Glover) – $150
      Nah.

      Barristan Selmy – $99
      (Ian McElhanney)
      Hmm. You got voted off the island prematurity and whinged about it…

      Night King 1.0 – $80
      (Richard Brake)
      A bit too rich for me.

      Night King 2.0 -$100
      (Vladimir Furdik)
      He’d have to reanimate a bunch of people.

      Randyll Tarley – $125
      (James Faulkner)
      Talk about an inflated sense of self-worth

      Dickon – $200
      (Tom Hopper)
      Ha ha! “Dickon”

      Edd
      Ben Crompton – $100
      Out of my price range

      IV Who?

      Roxanne McKee -$20
      Whoever she played, 20 bucks
      could be a bargain.

      Laura Pradelska -$45
      I’ll have to look up who she played…

        Quote  Reply

    151. Ten Bears,

      Roxanne McKee played Doreah, one of Dany’s Angels. I did not recognize her from her Cameo photo. It’s understandable that Laura Pradelska was not a familiar face: as the masked Quaithe she never showed her face.

      Now, having viewed Cameo’s lineup and price list for GoT cast members, I’m at a loss to understand the reason for a glaring omission:

      Where the f*ck is Hot Pie? 🧑‍🍳

        Quote  Reply

    152. Ten Bears:
      Ten Bears,

      Roxanne McKee played Doreah, one of Dany’s Angels. I did not recognize her from her Cameo photo. It’s understandable that Laura Pradelska was not a familiar face: as the masked Quaithe she never showed her face.

      Now, having viewed Cameo’s lineup and price list for GoT cast members, I’m at a loss to understand the reason for a glaring omission:

      Where the f*ck is Hot Pie? 🧑‍🍳

      Yeah too bad about Hot Pie not being there.

      So, they won’t dress up in costume for you 🙂
      They do have samples of past videos they sent. Some actors are alot more natural and leave better messages than others. Lena Headey actually was really bad on the one I watched. She was in her car with horrible lighting. And it was like she needed someone to write her lines! She’s not available anyway, and she’s over $300. I was browsing, and I just watched one by Aimee Richardson who played the original Myrcella. She’s in her early 20’s now. She gave a really heartfelt message to someone for her 18th birthday… And only $25! Unfortunately, it doesn’t look she’s done very much since GOT. She’s had a few roles in short films mostly. Anyway, it’s a cool idea for a unique gift. But I still do crave those Oreos you bought, so I might rather have the Oreos and cheaper.

      https://www.cameo.com/v/6023c640257064001de2117f

        Quote  Reply

    153. Tron79,

      I regret giving away some of those Oreos as gifts and eating those I kept. I regret even more not stocking up on UK Royal Mail Game of Thrones character stamps. I bought a few sheets when they were first issued.
      I tried to order more recently. I discovered that they went off sale some time ago and no more are being printed, at least for now.
      The prices being asked on eBay are… insane.

        Quote  Reply

    154. Ten Bears,

      I have one those stamp sets and I don’t even know where it is! I didn’t even think to purchase with the foresight that they’d accumulate value — dammmmmit D: I just thought it was a fun thing to have and I loved the designs!

        Quote  Reply

    155. Adrianacandle,

      I have some of these (images retrieved from Google). They are really beautifully done.

      _99437603_0cbb53c8-8664-4cce-b30f-0a8e5b175304.jpg 695×390 pixels

      https://ichef-bbci-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/695/cpsprodpb/77D1/production/_99437603_0cbb53c8-8664-4cce-b30f-0a8e5b175304.jpg

      For now, I’m going to keep my stamps sealed in acid-free bags, and only take them out to scan to make my own “stamps” (not valid for U.S. postage) with a color printer and Avery clear address labels.

      I also make my own Ygritte, Syrio, Jorah, and Sandor stamps from online images I import and re-size to fit on the address labels. I’ve also made a stamp of Walder Frey

      getting his throat sliced open by you know who.

        Quote  Reply

    156. Ten Bears: For now, I’m going to keep my stamps sealed in acid-free bags, and only take them out to scan to make my own “stamps” (not valid for U.S. postage) with a color printer and Avery clear address labels.

      Sadly, I have not been nearly so careful. They’re around, I briefly came across them when I packed them because they fell out of the book I shoved them into and I remember me stuffing them back in x_x

      I don’t even know what book…

      Collectors everywhere shiver.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Adrianacandle,

      You’re probably better off with the GoT stamps shoved in a book somewhere. Seriously.

      Stamps stuffed inside the pages of a (hardcover) book should remain flat and, for the most part, protected from the elements as long as your books are kept dry and don’t get mildewed.
      As long as your books don’t get drenched in a rainstorm or plumbing catastrophe, the stamps ought to be okay, and won’t get stuck to the pages.

      However, I am not an expert on philatelic preservation practices.

      P.S. Don’t you like to find surprises inside books?

        Quote  Reply

    158. loco73:
      Ten Bears,

      Excellent!👍👍

      (Your reply to post with video of Prince’s song “When You Were Mine” performed by Cyndi Lauper at AMAs on Jan. 28, 1985)

      FYI: Follow up to that on the way, along with a Prince anecdote.

        Quote  Reply

    159. Ten Bears,

      That’s good news then!

      As for finding stuff in books — I’m of a mixed mind. If something falls out and I’ve been looking for that thing forever, I’m both relieved and pissed at myself. If I didn’t know yet I was missing that thing, I’m just relieved and try to make a mental note as to where I put it. If I remember shoving that thing into a book and it’s still there, I’m just happy it didn’t fall out 🙂

      I think The Container Store would probably help me out a lot.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Mango,

      More Prince?

      I suspect you may have already seen this video. It’s got 97 million views. Loyal Prince fans love his guitar playing here.

      2004 R&R Hall of Fame Induction
      “While My Guitar Gently Weeps”
      Tom Petty, Jeff Lynn, Dhani Harrison, Prince

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SFNW5F8K9Y

      Starting at 3:30,

      Prince starts dialing it up to 11.

        Quote  Reply

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