Four New Cast Members Announced for House of the Dragon!

HOTD cast

With the TCA press events happening this week, it was a safe bet we’d get a tidbit or two about House of the Dragon and the other potential new prequel/spinoffs, but HBO has done much better than that today!

HBO’s new House of the Dragon page at the official site went up today, with info about previously announced cast members- and four new cast and character names!

The new additions are:

Steve Toussaint as Lord Corlys Velaryon aka “The Sea Snake.” The lord of House Velaryon, a Valyrian bloodline as old as House Targaryen, “The Sea Snake,” is the most famed nautical adventurer in the history of Westeros. He built his house into a powerful seat that is even richer than the Lannisters and that claims the largest navy in the world.

Eve Best as Princess Rhaenys Velaryon. A dragonrider and wife to Lord Corlys Velaryon, “The Queen Who Never Was” was passed over as heir to the throne at the Great Council because the realm favored her cousin, Viserys, simply for being male.

Rhys Ifans as Otto Hightower, the Hand of the King, who loyally and faithfully serves both his king and his realm. As the Hand sees it, the greatest threat to the realm is the king’s brother, Daemon, and his position as heir to the throne.

Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.

The official page also confirmed that Game of Thrones composer Ramin Djawadi will score the new series.

An exciting day! Fans have been dyinng to find out who will be playing Corlys the Sea Snake. Personally I’m a huge fan of Rhys Ifans so I’m thrilled to see him join the cast as Hightower.

What do we think of how the cast is shaping up so far, Watchers?

101 responses

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    1. I’ve only ever heard of Rhys Evans and am confident he will do well, the two ladies look well cast but the Sea Snake looks nothing like how he’s described in the book. I don’t only mean skin colour but I visualise him more as a rough, almost skinny, well chiselled/almost worn character and this guy looks very different – big powerful, good looking etc. so the casting here feels very strange.

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    2. Exciting!!! I don’t know much about any of these actors but hungry for any and all announcements!

      I’m a little curious as to why the descriptions depict Daemon and not Rhaenyra as heir- do I have my in world history right? Wasn’t Viserys announcing Rhaenyra when she was pretty young and naming her Princess of Dragonstone while Daemon was off being King of the Stepstones or whatever? Maybe the timeline of the show will start before/around Rhaenyra’s birth and then fast-forward?? Maybe they will simplify everything? The website also states Daemon is heir. I sort had the in-world impression Daemon thought he was behind Rhaenyra in the succession- hence his constant attempts to ingratiate himself to her and/or marry her..

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    3. Jaime’s girl: ’m a little curious as to why the descriptions depict Daemon and not Rhaenyra as heir- do I have my in world history right? Wasn’t Viserys announcing Rhaenyra when she was pretty young and naming her Princess of Dragonstone while Daemon was off being King of the Stepstones or whatever? Maybe the timeline of the show will start before/around Rhaenyra’s birth and then fast-forward?? Maybe they will simplify everything? The website also states Daemon is heir. I sort had the in-world impression Daemon thought he was behind Rhaenyra in the succession- hence his constant attempts to ingratiate himself to her and/or marry her..

      Daemon was initially Viserys’s heir. Otto Hightower, Alicent’s father, pushed Viserys to defy the precedent set by the Great Council and remove Daemon from the line of succession to make Rhaenyra his heir but Viserys refused. He was still hopeful his wife Aemma could give him a son. Aemma became pregnant but she died birthing their son and their son died shortly after. When Daemon made some ill-advised drunken comments mocking Viserys’s dead wife and son, a grieving Viserys became enraged and decided Rhaenyra would be his heir.

      So I wonder if this means they’ll be starting early-on, while Rhaenyra is still a child, Queen Aemma is still alive, Alicent is a young teen, etc.?

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    4. ”Personally I’m a huge fan of Rhys Ifans so I’m thrilled to see him join the cast as Hightower.

      What do we think of how the cast is shaping up so far, Watchers?”

      Delighted!!!
      I too have been a fan of Rhys Ifans, especially after his turn as Hugh Grant’s oddball roommate Spike in “Notting Hill” (1999).
      Two clips of Rhys Ifans from that movie follow:
      • (1) Spike can’t believe there’s a world-famous actress in his bathtub.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NbFUeP5VC4
      • (2) ⚠️ Spoiler Alert (scene near the end)*
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJPI1qu9bE4

      * Six Degrees of Game of Thrones:
      at 0:23 – Lord Glover (Tim McInnerny)

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    5. Ten Bears,

      Almost forgot…

      ”Rhys Ifans as Otto Hightower, the Hand of the King, who loyally and faithfully serves both his king and his realm…”

      So he’s going to be playing Alicent’s dad. Now I am definitely all-in for Team Green. 💚

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    6. Ten Bears,

      As soon as you said this:

      I too have been a fan of Rhys Ifans, especially after his turn as Hugh Grant’s oddball roommate Spike in “Notting Hill” (1999).

      I had a feeling about this:

      So he’s going to be playing Alicent’s dad. Now I am definitely all-in for Team Green. 💚

      Team Green is looking pretty good!

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    7. Sonoya Mizuno played the lead in the Alex Garland series DEVS on HULU. Loved her performance and that show as a whole. Looking forward to seeing her switching from sci-fi to fantasy.

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    8. I just saw Eve Best in the series “Fate: The Winx Saga”
      It’s a bit like a twist on Harry Potter with a school of magic.
      She played the headmistress Farah Dowling. The school taught magic similar to Harry Potter, but for Fire Fairies, Earth Fairies, Water Fairies and more. I found the series somewhat watchable. It had alot of standard teen drama themes. Eve Best did a nice job as one of the adults. She had to come to the rescue and use her own magic several times. I can see her fitting the part of Princess Rhaenys Velaryon, “The Queen Who Never Was” She fits the age as described in the novellas.

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    9. I love the exotic look of Sonoya Mizuno:

      https://i.pinimg.com/originals/32/c5/55/32c555d1ffb56ba49dda4867892d1255.jpg

      I’ve got to go look for some video clips to see her in other roles.

      Question for Fire & Blood scholars:

      The character description in the main article says:

      Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne.”

      I’m intrigued by this backstory. It sounds like Mysaria is going to be more than a loyal sidekick to Prince Daemon.
      Are there any additional details about the character in the books? (Kindly cover replies in spoiler coding.)
      Thanks in advance!

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    10. ack, good point, hope I did not spoil.. was assuming I was writing all backstory stuff re the character descriptions provided by the show site and no plot spoilers but I may have been borderline. If so, I apologize 🙁

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    11. Ten Bears,

      Thanks for the reminder about spoiler codes! I forgot too 🙁

      Some details about Mysaria:

      This happens when Daemon grows bored with the offices he’s assigned to and becomes discontented with his wife. While Viserys refused to annul the marriage, he gave Daemon command of the City Watch, which Daemon liked a lot better. This is when he meets Mysaria, who becomes his paramour.

      Prince Daemon improved the armaments and training of the watch and gave them the golden cloaks that led them to be known as the “gold cloaks” to this day. He often joined his men in patrolling the city, swiftly becoming known to both the meanest urchin and the wealthiest tradesman, and earned a certain dark reputation in the stews and brothels where he was wont to make free of the wares on offer. Crime fell sharply, though some said it was because Daemon delighted in meting out harsh punishments. Yet those who benefited from his rule loved him well, and Daemon soon became known as “Lord Flea Bottom.”

      Later still, after Viserys refused him the title of Prince of Dragonstone, he came to be called “the Prince of the City.” It was in the brothels of the city that he found a favorite, a paramour—a very pale Lysene dancer named Mysaria, whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery, the White Worm. Later, she became Daemon’s mistress of whisperers.

      And when Princess Rhaenyra is named Viserys’s heir in an opulent ceremony, Daemon is furious and takes off with Mysaria:

      Prince Daemon was not amongst them, however. Furious at the king’s decree, the prince quit King’s Landing, resigning from the City Watch. He went first to Dragonstone, taking his paramour Mysaria with him upon the back of his dragon Caraxes, the lean red beast the smallfolk called the Blood Wyrm. There he remained for half a year, during which time he got Mysaria with child.

      When he learned that his concubine was pregnant, Prince Daemon presented her with a dragon’s egg, but in this he again went too far and woke his brother’s wroth. King Viserys commanded him to return the egg, send his whore away, and return to his lawful wife, or else be attainted as a traitor. The prince obeyed, though with ill grace, dispatching Mysaria (eggless) back to Lys, whilst he himself flew to Runestone in the Vale and the unwelcome company of his “bronze bitch.” But Mysaria lost her child during a storm on the narrow sea. When word reached Prince Daemon he spoke no syllable of grief, but his heart hardened against the king, his brother. Thereafter he spoke of King Viserys only with disdain, and began to brood day and night on the succession.

      There’s more to Mysaria’s story but I think this is a good start? 🙂

      And maybe Max will have some commentary too!

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    12. Jaime’s girl:
      ack, good point, hope I did not spoil.. was assuming I was writing all backstory stuff re the character descriptions provided by the show site and no plot spoilers but I may have been borderline. If so, I apologize 🙁

      I forgot too 🙁

      I’m really curious then when the start point of the narrative will be…

      Me too!

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    13. MJ:
      I’m all for diverse casting, but Corlys being black ruins a major plot point of the book. Unless Hugh Hammer is also black…

      I think casting a black actor as Corlys Velaryon is a great choice because it makes one of the most important plot points obvious: that Corlys’s grandsons look nothing like him or his son. Instead, they look very much like their mother’s good friend.

      Hugh Hammer isn’t important from this plot point of view. We don’t know where he got his “dragonriding blood”, probably not the Velaryons because they weren’t dragonriders. Corlys’s son only was one because his mother was a Targaryen.

      (The Targaryens and Velaryons had intermarried before but we’ve never heard of a Velaryon dragonrider before Corlys’s son.)

      Besides, Hugh was from Dragonstone, the Targaryen island, not Driftmark, the Velaryon island.

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    14. Great news about Ramin! Hopefully Miguel doesn’t butt in on his score with lame suggestions. Also love Rhys and Sonya Mizuno. If you haven’t checked out Alex Garland’s mini-series Devs which flew under the radar last year, you should, Sonya was great in that.

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    15. Great news! Among the four, I only know Rhys Ifans (Grutas in Hannibal Rising, Xenophillius Lovegood in Harry Potter and it’s likely I spotted him somewhere else too) but I’m lookinh forward to seeing all these four on screen. As I said in another thread, I’m especially intrigued to see the what’s originally written as historical account play out as true story, with characters’ interactions and firm characterization.

      As for black Corlys, I really don’t mind it. What matters to me is the performance, not outlook.

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    16. Adrianacandle,

      “Mysaria,

      whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery,

      the White Worm.”

      I wonder if that was an intentional reference to the movie “The Lair of the White Worm.”

      http://www.vaultofthoughts.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/amanda-donahoe-lair-white-worm.png

      That 1988 movie starred Peter Capaldi, Matt Smith’s eventual regenerated successor as Dr. Who.

      Of course, that incarnation of Dr. Who intersected through millennia of time and light years of space with Ashildr (Maisie Williams), proving once again that “All Roads Lead to Arya.”

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    17. Adrianacandle,

      With the understanding that I have not read the source material and I am engaging in rank, uninformed speculation, from your description of Mysaria + the casting news, below, I’m thinking that Mysaria is the frontrunner to be a fan favorite. A few reasons…
      (1) Everybody likes an underdog story. (Well, at least I do.) Even more so when the underdog has pulled herself up to achieve a vaunted position
      among those given everything on a silver platter – like snooty, self-entitled aristocrats.
      (2) Similarly, a loyal and “most trusted ally” type of character is usually endearing to an audience.
      (3) In some ways, her story seems to mirror that of S1-S5 Varys

      a disposable non-entity who survived exploitation as a child to become powerful and indispensable in his or her own right. (Though it may be coincidental, both Varys and Mysaria rose up to become Master/Mistress of Whispers.) BTW, I refer to S1-S4 one-step-ahead-of-everyone Varys because after that, his character seemed to lose his intellectual mojo and become careless before being sidelined and unceremoniously jettisoned in S6-S8).

      (4) From comments about and descriptions of Alicent and Rhaenys, I get the impression that

      neither one of these two rivals will be classic heroines, i.e, they will be morally grey characters and there will be reasons to root for and against both of them.*

      While I understand that Big G usually blurs the bright line between stereotypical “good guys” and “bad guys,”there are exceptions…
      (5) That Prince Daemon not only

      ”found a favorite, a paramour” in Mysaria

      but elevated her to a position of trust and

      apparently had great affection for her

      should mean that audiences will be enamored with her too. If her trajectory

      tracks that in the books, as you described, it doesn’t sound like she will become a backstabber; she will remain loyal – and both she and Daemon will suffer after Viserys forces him to exile her. If that happens, I assume she’ll then engender sympathy, not derision.

      (6) Though this is admittedly shallow of me to say, based on physical appearance Sonoya Mizuno looks like Mysaria will be an alluring but fierce character: Easy on the eyes and fun to watch in action. (Fanboy Alert: She reminds me a little of Rila Fukushima, the GoT S5 Volantis Red Priestess, who I thought stole the show from Hugh Jackman in “The Wolverine” movie in which she played

      ”a most trusted and unlikely ally” of Wolverine.)

      * Caveat(s)
      – I can’t tell if Daemon (and Mysaria by extension) will align with Team Green, Team Black, or neither one.

      I don’t know enough to project how Daemon reacted when his “heart hardened against the king, his brother. Thereafter he spoke of King Viserys only with disdain.”

      – Please, oh please!

      No baby dramas. Maybe HotD can skip the part where “Mysaria lost her child during a storm on the narrow sea.”

      ➖➖➖
      [Daemon]

      “found a favorite, a paramour—a very pale Lysene dancer named Mysaria, whose looks and reputation led the prostitutes who knew her to call her Misery, the White Worm. Later, she became Daemon’s mistress of whisperers.”

      “Sonoya Mizuno as Mysaria. She came to Westeros with nothing, sold more times than she can recall, and could have wilted…but instead she rose to become the most trusted — and most unlikely — ally of Prince Daemon Targaryen, the heir to the throne..”

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    18. Ten Bears,

      I’ll get back to you in about an hour! I’m on my way out for a quick errand but I don’t know if you’ll like some of the stuff since

      she’s not a particularly endearing character and is the one who informs on Nettles — claiming Nettles is apparently sleeping with Daemon — and adds fuel to Rhaenyra’s desire to execute Nettles.

      She’s Team Black though.

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    19. Ten Bears,

      Kay, some passages from Fire & Blood:

      At this time, Daemon and Rhaenyra are married. Rhaenyra’s son Lucerys Velaryon is killed at age 14 on dragonback when Aemond Targaryen (Alicent’s second son) pursues him on dragonback and the dragons engage. They have a bad history. Anyway, Lucerys falls to his death, devastating Rhaenyra. Daemon is enraged and seeks vengeance, enlisting Mysaria’s help.

      The prince still had friends in the low places of King’s Landing, and followers amongst the gold cloaks. Unbeknownst to King Aegon, the Hand, or the Queen Dowager, he had allies at court as well, even on the green council…and one other go-between, a special friend he trusted utterly, who knew the wine sinks and rat pits that festered in the shadow of the Red Keep as well as Daemon himself once had, and moved easily through the shadows of the city. To this pale stranger he reached out now, by secret ways, to set a terrible vengeance into motion. [Mysaria]

      Amidst the stews of Flea Bottom, Prince Daemon’s go-between found suitable instruments. One had been a serjeant in the City Watch; big and brutal, he had lost his gold cloak for beating a whore to death whilst in a drunken rage. The other was a ratcatcher in the Red Keep. Their true names are lost to history. They are remembered (would that they were not!) as Blood and Cheese.

      This is where poor Helaena comes in and she is forced to choose which of her sons would die. When Helaena very reluctantly chooses, Blood kills the one she doesn’t choose so that son will have to live with the knowledge that his mother rather he died over his brother. Yikes.

      Anyway…

      Two days later, Blood was seized at the Gate of the Gods trying to leave King’s Landing with the head of Prince Jaehaerys hidden in one of his saddle sacks. Under torture, he confessed that he had been taking it to Harrenhal, to collect his reward from Prince Daemon. He also gave up a description of the whore he claimed had hired them: an older woman, foreign by her talk, cloaked and hooded, very pale. The other harlots called her Misery.

      After thirteen days of torment, Blood was at last allowed to die. Queen Alicent had commanded Larys Clubfoot to learn his true name, so that she might bathe in the blood of his wife and children, but our sources do not say if this occurred. Ser Luthor Largent and his gold cloaks searched the Street of Silk from top to bottom, and turned out and stripped every harlot in King’s Landing, but no trace of Cheese or the White Worm was ever found. In his grief and fury, King Aegon II commanded that all the city’s ratcatchers be taken out and hanged, and this was done.

      

So when Rhaenyra becomes queen…

      Even the White Worm came to court; the Lysene harlot Mysaria emerged from the shadows to take up residence in the Red Keep. Though never officially seated with the queen’s small council, the woman now known as Lady Misery became the mistress of whisperers in all but name, with eyes and ears in every brothel, alehouse, and pot shop in King’s Landing, and in the halls and bedchambers of the mighty as well. Though the years had thickened the body that had been so lithe and lissome, Prince Daemon remained in her thrall, and called upon her every evening…with Queen Rhaenyra’s apparent blessing. “Let Daemon slake his hungers where he will,” she is reported to have said, “and we shall do the same.”

      Mysaria helping Rhaenyra out with her punishments…



      Here again Mushroom differs. The dwarf would have us believe that Rhaenyra ordered her stepmother’s tongue torn out at once, rather than merely threatening this. It was only a word from Lady Misery that stayed her hand, the fool insists; the White Worm proposed another, crueler punishment. King Aegon’s wife and mother were taken in chains to a certain brothel, and there sold to any man who wished to have his pleasure of them. The price was high; a golden dragon for Queen Alicent, three dragons for Queen Helaena, who was younger and more beautiful. Yet Mushroom says there were many in the city who thought that cheap for carnal knowledge of a queen. “Let them remain there until they are with child,” Lady Misery is purported to have said. “They speak of bastards so freely, let them each have one for their very own.”

      The suspected turncloak Addam Velaryon had fled before he could be put to the question. His flight had proved his guilt, the White Worm murmured.

      When Mysaria informs on Nettles….

      It might be so. Yet Queen Rhaenyra did not act at once, but rather sent for Mysaria, the harlot and dancing girl who was her mistress of whisperers in all but name. With her skin as pale as milk, Lady Misery appeared before the council in a hooded robe of black velvet lined with blood-red silk, and stood with head bowed humbly as Her Grace asked whether she thought Ser Addam and Nettles might be planning to betray them. Then the White Worm raised her eyes and said in a soft voice, “The girl has already betrayed you, my queen. Even now she shares your husband’s bed, and soon enough she will have his bastard in her belly.”

      That was proved when two of the Sea Snake’s sworn swords, Ser Denys Woodwright and Ser Thoron True, cut their way into the dungeons to free their lord [Lord Corlys]. Their plans were betrayed to Lady Misery by a whore Ser Thoron had been bedding, and the would-be rescuers were taken and hanged. The two knights died at dawn, kicking and writhing against the walls of the Red Keep as the nooses tightened round their necks. That very day, not long after sunset, another horror visited the queen’s court. Helaena Targaryen, sister, wife, and queen to King Aegon II and mother of his children, threw herself from her window in Maegor’s Holdfast to die impaled upon the iron spikes that lined the dry moat below. She was but one-and-twenty.

      After half a year of captivity, why should Aegon’s queen [Helaena] choose this night to end her life? Mushroom asserts that Helaena was with child after her days and nights of being sold for a common whore, but this explanation is only as creditable as his tale of the Brothel Queens, which is to say, not creditable at all. Grand Maester Munkun believes the horror of seeing Ser Thoron and Ser Denys die drove her to the act, but if the young queen knew the two men it could only have been as gaolers, and there is no evidence that she was a witness to their hanging. Septon Eustace suggests that Lady Mysaria, the White Worm, chose this night to tell Helaena of the death of her son Maelor, and the grisly manner of his passing, though what motive she would have had for doing so, beyond simple malice, is hard to fathom.

      By evenfall, Rhaenyra Targaryen found herself sore beset on every side, her reign in ruins. “The queen wept when they told her how Ser Lorent died,” Mushroom testifies, “but she raged when she learned that Maidenpool had gone over to the foe, that the girl Nettles had escaped, that her own beloved consort had betrayed her, and she trembled when Lady Mysaria warned her against the coming dark, that this night would be worse than the last. At dawn, a hundred men attended her in the throne room, but one by one they slipped away or were dismissed, until only her sons and I remained with her. ‘My faithful Mushroom,’ Her Grace called me, ‘would that all men were true as you. I should make you my Hand.’ When I replied that I would sooner be her consort, she laughed. No sound was ever sweeter. It was good to hear her laugh.”

      Mysaria warns Rhaenyra to flee and stays behind.

      Mushroom remained behind, along with other members of the court, amongst them Lady Misery and Septon Eustace. Ser Garth the Harelip, captain of the gold cloaks at the Dragon Gate, was charged with the defense of the castle, a task for which the Harelip proved to have little appetite. Her Grace had not been gone half a day when Ser Perkin the Flea and his gutter knights appeared outside the gates, demanding that the castle yield. Though outnumbered ten to one, the queen’s garrison might still have resisted, but Ser Garth chose instead to strike Rhaenyra’s banners, open his gates, and trust to the mercy of the foe.

      The Flea proved to have no mercy. Garth the Harelip was dragged before him and beheaded, along with twenty other knights still loyal to the queen, amongst them Ser Harmon of the Reeds, the Iron-Banger, who had been one of the Seven Who Rode. Nor was the mistress of whisperers, Lady Mysaria of Lys, spared on account of her sex. Taken whilst attempting to flee, the White Worm was whipped naked through the city, from the Red Keep to the Gate of the Gods. If she were still alive by the time they reached the gate, Ser Perkin promised, she would be spared and allowed to go. She made it only half that distance, dying on the cobblestones with hardly a patch of her pale white skin left upon her back.

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    20. Nee: Based on the context of their post, I think that poster meant to say “unless Harwin Strong is also black.”

      But that would defeat the whole point, wouldn’t it?

      Anyway, I don’t think you know what the poster “meant” to say.

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    21. Ten Bears,

      Be careful of prejudging yourself, ha ha ha.

      Seriously, I find it a bit weird “picking a side”, being “team this or that” before a single episode has aired, based on the scant information you – as a self-confessed non-book-reader – have and the looks of the actors.

      Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird. The whole point of the Dance of the Dragons, as GRRM wrote it, is that there’s no right side or wrong side. It’s a tragic muddle and mess.

      I’ve read the available published GRRM material, and I think the Greens were worse but the Blacks came a very close second, especially later on. They were both awful for the smallfolk.

      It all came to an end, when the awesome

      Lord Cregan Stark finally came south and sorted it all, punishing Blacks and Greens with no fear or favour. He might’ve gone a bit too far with his northern justice, but the even more awesome Black Aly (Alysanne Blackwood) swayed him, helped build bridges, peace, brought the North and south closer together… Ha ha, even showed the way by marrying Cregan Stark herself (because she wanted, she had the hots for him).

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    22. Of course, my own ideas about this new, potential show are “tainted”, even prejudiced, by having read the available GRRM book material.

      However, I do not expect “book purity” from a TV show. (Such as the nonesense some of the more extreme elements of fandom shrieking that the actors cast don’t exactly fit the book description. )

      Because I know perfect book/show equivalence can never be achieved. Because you’re dealing with two very different, though related, art forms. The way you tell a story in written word is very different you tell a story in a visual, time-sensitive medium.

      TV/film has at its fingertips a multitude of means to create and convey meaning in seconds that the writer has to spend pages on. Think colour, lighting, costumes, scenery, framing, zooming in or out. The viewers take it in in seconds, the reader takes minutes to read through the description. Add sound effects and especially music – which especially appeals to viewers’ feelings – witness the love for Ramin Djawadi!

      I’m prepared to like this new HoTD project if they don’t descend into clichés of “goodies” and “badies” but keep it grey and ambiguous, with strong actor performances (supported by strong writing, of course). Heh, “high thread-count” scenes.

      If it becomes just another fantasy superhero dragon spectacle… No thanks.

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    23. Ten Bears: Oh sh*t!

      This made me laugh XD

      But she still may be a compelling character!

      talvikorppi: Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird. The whole point of the Dance of the Dragons, as GRRM wrote it, is that there’s no right side or wrong side. It’s a tragic muddle and mess.

      Again, I think you’re on point with the characterization of what went on during this time period (“no right side or wrong side”, “a tragic muddle and mess”). Although, I admit that I like the idea of declaring for Team Black or Team Green in a good-natured fandom way, I think it’ll be pretty impossible to root for either thick or thin no matter what. Both sides do some pretty atrocious things and although I side a bit more with Team Black,

      what was done to Helaena by Daemon, Rhaenyra, and Mysaria was beyond hideous, for example.

      I think that there is no morally superior side and both are undoubtedly grey, muddled, each having done horrendous things while (most) characters all have their selfish/horrible/sympathetic/and everything-in-between qualities, I think that should make this an intriguing series.

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    24. One thing I find myself wondering about is the HotD timeline. How will they handle it?

      The roots of the Dance of the Dragons are buried deep in the reign of Jaeharys I and his sister-wife Queen Alysanne. Then the Great Council of 101 AD. The actual “Dance” happened in 129-131 AD but things had been going on in court for at least 15 years before that.

      Rhaenyra from a child, “the Realm’s delight”, to a middle-aged (by Westerosi standards) woman.

      The TV show probably has to condense the timeline. How will they do it?

      I’m not too fussed if they don’t exactly follow book canon, I just hope they’re not falling into too many plot holes because of it. Hell, I won’t even care, if they do it well enough. But I set quite a high bar on that.

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    25. talvikorppi: One thing I find myself wondering about is the HotD timeline. How will they handle it?

      The roots of the Dance of the Dragons are buried deep in the reign of Jaeharys I and his sister-wife Queen Alysanne. Then the Great Council of 101 AD. The actual “Dance” happened in 129-131 AD but things had been going on in court for at least 15 years before that.

      Rhaenyra from a child, “the Realm’s delight”, to a middle-aged (by Westerosi standards) woman.

      The TV show probably has to condense the timeline. How will they do it?

      I’m not too fussed if they don’t exactly follow book canon, I just hope they’re not falling into too many plot holes because of it. Hell, I won’t even care, if they do it well enough. But I set quite a high bar on that.

      I guess there would be two important considerations: when will they begin the narrative and how long they’d like this show to go on for (how many seasons?)

      Because you’re right, this story spans quite a length of time and the seeds of conflict were sown before even Rhaenyra was born in 97AC and well before Alicent came to court in 101AC as a young teenager. Perhaps they’ll have a quick history lesson on this?

      As for the rest, since the story covers about 25-30 years, I wonder if they’ll do it something like how The Tudors covered the reign of Henry the VIII. While The Tudors definitely took… liberties… it ran for four seasons (10 episodes a season, I believe) and took Henry from his 20s to his death in his 50s. Each season seemed divvied up by a change in time period and/or wives.

      So I wonder if they’ll perhaps handle it like that?

        Quote  Reply

    26. One final note before I have to go to bed (it’s past 2am where I live, ha ha).

      When the idea of prequel shows were first mooted several years ago, there were lots who wanted Robert’s Rebellion or Dunk & Egg or Long Night or whatever.

      The Dance of the Dragons was always my first choice. However, I thought it maybe unfeasible because of expensive dragon CGI. I was even finding ways to keep dragons off-screen as much as possible. It is, after all, most of all, a court intrigue and human drama at heart. Dragon flights and fights are actually just fantasy window-dressing.

      Ha ha, a year ago the bosses that be at HBO (or their bosses) came to the same conclusion. I just hope they do it well. Well enough for me to like it.

        Quote  Reply

    27. talvikorppi,

      ”Seriously, I find it a bit weird “picking a side”, being “team this or that” before a single episode has aired, based on the scant information you – as a self-confessed non-book-reader – have and the looks of the actors.

      Indeed, I find “picking a side” and supporting them through thick and thin like a sports team a bit weird…”

      Nah. It’s all in good fun. Nothing serious.
      From what I gather about the two sides in HotD,

      with both behaving miserably and ultimately imploding

      , if I’m going to pick sides like sports teams… I’d better be prepared to watch the show with a paper bag over my head.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4giMDi3Cugs
      🏟

        Quote  Reply

    28. Adrianacandle,

      thank you for the preview on a story that seems to be darker than GoT. it’s time for me to get prepared and read what i can get about House 50%-Chance-of-Batshit. a few watchings of the GoT history and lore just left me remembering some few civil wars or at least rebellions, and a seemingly limited pool of first names. by which i mean, confused.

      as there might be no climax like “the only war that matters” aka the war of the living against the dead, i expect HotD to be focussed on simply everything being shit and suffering. Ghost of Harrenhal – like.

      off now for learning about all the Aemons, Aegons, Aerons, Aerosolons, and then comes the letter B, and their numbering and all the sisters and mistresses they banged. i watched GoT without knowing anything about the book story. i want to be prepared this time, because i feel GRRMs writing is worth some preparation before watching adaptations.

      (finally, i can’t hold back this: a guy is nicknamed Iron-Banger? really? never lose the hyphen, or the internet will be out for you!)

        Quote  Reply

    29. death by chickenfire: finally, i can’t hold back this: a guy is nicknamed Iron-Banger? really? never lose the hyphen, or the internet will be out for you!)

      I’m afraid so XD; He was a knight, loyal to Team Black, who was sent to retrieve one of Rhaenyra’s sons when that son (named Joffrey! But not nearly as problematic as Cersei’s Joffrey…) was trying to save the dragons in the Dragonpit but Joffrey is killed in the attempt.

      As for sorting out all the wars, Aegons, Aemonds, Aerons (we even have a Princess Rhaenys and Princess Rhaenyra), I recommend looking up various key players on westeros.org’s wiki:

      Alicent Hightower
      Rhaenyra Targaryen
      Otto Hightower
      Daemon Targaryen

      And I think that should cover you well enough and give you a good timeline of what wars were fought when and what led up to them 🙂

      This can also provide a pretty good skeletal guide if you wish to make your way through the source material! (The World of Ice and Fire, Fire & Blood, as well as the short stories: The Princess and the Queen, The Rouge Prince)

        Quote  Reply

    30. Nee,

      That would make more sense to me too. I can’t figure out a plot that would make the Hammer and Corlys’ skin color be at odds plot wise, but Harwin IS rumored to have fathered Rhaenyra’s children by Corlys Velaryon’s son. So it would make a lot of sense for Harwin Strong to be cast as a black character.

      Maybe they will cast him so and thus have more diverse cast.

        Quote  Reply

    31. Don’t know anything about any of them but I hope for the best for the dude who plays the Sea Snake. He’s got a kick ass character to portray and Of which I’m a fan.

      No word on Cragan Stark, so I’ll assume he won’t make an appearance until season 3 or so…

        Quote  Reply

    32. TormundsWoman:

      …No word on Cragan Stark, so I’ll assume he won’t make an appearance until season 3 or so…

      They could bring back a Stark actor from GoT, similar to what Star Trek: The Next Generation did in “Redemption Part I.”
      ⚠️ Massive Spoiler!

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6tgDotNSn4

      ⚠️ Spoiler details!

      Now that was a “Holy Sh*t!!!” moment that was kept under wraps until the episode-ending reveal: the actress who played the long-dead Tasha Yar returning as Tasha’s half-Romulan daughter from the distant past! (Because of time travel)

        Quote  Reply

    33. Ten Bears,

      I commend you on your frequent TNG asides. I can tell you are very knowledgeable about that show, which can only be considered a mark of good taste. Tip o’ the hat. Tap on the communicator. Or something to that effect.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Adrianacandle,

      You know, this “team Black” vs “team Green” thing, this is something that really intrigues me in terms of how the story will “emotionally” unfold on screen. As I said once before, I only know about The Dance of Dragons from Viserys I/Aegon II chapters of TWOIAF and from S5 Histories & Lore episode and regarding the conflict itself, I ended up thinking at the end who is more horrible than the other and I couldn’t decide. It makes me wonder if the events of GoT were writen as historical records, what would our opinion be on these years of conflict… maybe we would have even darker impression of this 8-season story.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,

      I think the benefit of having HotD as a show based off of a historical account is that we’ll be getting insight into who the characters are rather than just these historical figures. What they’re thinking, what they’re feeling, what motivates them — basically, what makes them human.

      In historical documents, people can come off looking quite a bit worse because history documents and texts don’t record the private things, the emotion, the feelings, their thoughts, what’s driving them. Well-meaning characters can come off quite badly and vice versa (depending on who’s providing the documentation. The world books — The World of Ice and Fire as well as Fire & Blood — are written in-universe by maesters with their own biases. I think Fire & Blood may be written by maester who is more sympathetic to Rhaenyra, for instance).

      So I think HotD will humanize these historical figures, make them real, human, and relatable. Give other sides to the story.

        Quote  Reply

    36. Adrianacandle,

      Yes, exactly that! I’m really intrigued to see with which character I’ll sympathize the most when we see them as full-fleshed characters on screen, rather than just figures in historical account. I’m sure the whole conflict would come across as more complex than just “people being greedy and powerhungry”. After all, if GoT was recorded as historical account rather than a character-focused story, I’m sure we would be grasping some characters differently or the story itself.

        Quote  Reply

    37. Erik, formerly Lord Parramandas,

      And I think this is truth in fiction. Often times, on the surface, people (and real life historical figures) can appear quite different in a text book than they would if you knew who they were one on one, what motivates them, why they make the decisions they do, what they care about, and their story. The full truth (or something like it) is often buried a bit under the surface details and is, perhaps, never known publicly. If it is documented, it’s at the mercy of the one presenting it.

      In this, I think HotD characters can be made pretty compelling, even the ones who make some pretty yikes! choices.

      Bonus points if they’re given a sense of humour 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    38. Adrianacandle,

      Once when I was at the French conversation group I attend with U3A (umbrella group for retired and semi-retired people) when we were able to meet in person (pre-lockdown) I mentioned something about having looked for information on Wikipedia. Somebody said it’s not always a reliable source. I countered with saying (not nastily) that I thought it had improved latterly. The other lady said the entries on Richard III (of England) change regularly – a person who thinks Richard III was one of the baddies may write something and then a person who thinks Richard was a good bloke will come along to edit the page to reflect his/her point of view. Some people call Wiki——-a, Wikimisleadia I know. I wonder if GRRM was playing with the idea of different people telling different histories in his Westeros ‘history’ books. I’m a stubborn old trout and I’m not spending any of my hard earned on books by GRRM re: Westeros that aren’t part of the main series until when and if TWoW makes it into print – so this year, next year, some time, never, who know.

      Getting back to the topic of this thread, offhand I can’t think of having seen the four thespians cited above in any films or shows so I can’t judge them. I was rather surprised there were some people who were less than enthralled when Matt Smith’s casting was announced because he wasn’t ‘hawt’ enough. I’m not saying I’m averse to looking at attractive males but if it comes to a toss-up between acting chops and looks I’d go for acting chops when casting a character. Make-up can work wonders – I don’t bother so much now but back in the day when I went to dances or otherwise socialised I could achieve miracles with war paint.

        Quote  Reply

    39. Dame of Mercia: I mentioned something about having looked for information on Wikipedia. Somebody said it’s not always a reliable source. I countered with saying (not nastily) that I thought it had improved latterly. The other lady said the entries on Richard III (of England) change regularly – a person who thinks Richard III was one of the baddies may write something and then a person who thinks Richard was a good bloke will come along to edit the page to reflect his/her point of view.

      I think Wikipedia is getting better — it really depends on the editors who are working on the articles at the time. What sounds like is going on with the Richard III article may be perhaps editing warring or conflict between editors, indicating the article is unstable. There’s also something on Wikipedia called WP:Undue weight (the weight a reliable source is given to represent information in the article) and this can lead to quite a bit of conflict between editors. Recently, I was involved in an arbitration case (not as one of the parties but as an editor who made a statement on my view of what was going on) where WP:Undue weight was a pretty major issue. Ideally, articles are supposed to be written in a neutral point of view (not informed by an editor’s bias) where sources are given appropriate weight (the more mainstream the view, the greater the weight since Wikipedia is an encyclopedia: meant to neutrally record and document what’s going on in current events and society, not be a leader in change while some editors try to use it as a plotform for change and as a soapbox) and that can cause conflict as well.

      I do know quite a few hardworking, experienced Wikipedians who have been working on the site since like 2003/2004 and have hundreds of thousands of edits under their belts, tirelessly devoting themselves to improving quality of articles. The problem is, there are also problem editors as well. Not ever article self-corrects especially if there’s aren’t dedicated, policy-focused editor actively working on that article, and there can be some misinformation.

      I wonder if GRRM was playing with the idea of different people telling different histories in his Westeros ‘history’ books. I’m a stubborn old trout and I’m not spending any of my hard earned on books by GRRM re: Westeros that aren’t part of the main series until when and if TWoW makes it into print – so this year, next year, some time, never, who know.

      I think that’s fair!

      But I think GRRM is specifically playing with this idea. In Fire and Blood and The World of Ice and Fire, they are written to be in-universe textbooks by maesters and septons, including some statements like:

      Septon Eustace and Mushroom do not always agree upon particulars, and at times their accounts are considerably at variance with one another, and with the court records and the chronicles of Grand Maester Runciter and his successors. Yet their tales do explain much and more that might otherwise seem puzzling, and later accounts confirm enough of their stories to suggest that they contain at least some portion of truth.

      To balance Eustace, we have The Testimony of Mushroom, based upon the verbal account of the court fool (set down by a scribe who failed to append his name) who at various times capered for the amusement of King Viserys, Princess Rhaenyra, and both Aegons, the Second and Third.

      The council convened in the queen’s apartments within Maegor’s Holdfast. Many accounts have come down to us of what was said and done that night. By far the most detailed and authoritative of them is Grand Maester Munkun’s The Dance of the Dragons, A True Telling.

      said. In Grand Maester Munkun’s account, the words are Orwyle’s, spoken softly, no more than a quibble. But Mushroom and Septon Eustace insist it was Lord Beesbury who spoke up, and in a waspish tone.

      With so many present on the bridge, it is not surprising that we have many differing accounts of what befell Maelor Targaryen. Mushroom tells us that Willow Pound-Stone clutched the boy so tightly that she broke his back and crushed him to death. Septon Eustace does not so much as mention Willow, however. In his account, the town butcher hacked the prince into six pieces with his cleaver, so all those fighting over him could have a piece. Grand Maester Munkun’s True Telling says that the boy was torn limb from limb by the mob, but names no names.

      And so on… 🙂

      Whereas in Dunk & Egg and ASOIAF, the story is told from the character’s point of view so we’re in their head, we know what’s going on there, what they’re feeling, what’s motivating them, and this internal perception of the character can differ pretty significantly from an external perception.

        Quote  Reply

    40. Musical Interlude
      Dedicated to Rhaenys Targaryen

      🎶 “She was moving like a lady
      Looking like a Dragon Princess.
      “🎶

      “St. Charles” (1976) – Jefferson Starship

      at 1:15 – 1:32

        Quote  Reply

    41. Starting to get pretty exciting. Corlys, Rhaenys, and Otto are all characters I was really looking forward to. For some reason I wasn’t sure if they were even going to cast Mysaria, but I’m very intrigued, and I love the choice they made there.

        Quote  Reply

    42. Mr Derp,

      Oh that’s nice news – about baby Harington. While I’m here, I hope those in North America (southern states) who may be suffering with the unusual snowy weather are bearing up alright. We’ve had some cold weather in the UK (not today which is quite mild) this winter and my electric (electrical?) consumption was more than the projected amount for the last two months because I kept the heaters plugged in . It usually evens out over the summer months though.

        Quote  Reply

    43. yesterday i saw Rhys Ifans in “Enduring Love”. surely not a masterpiece, though all of the actors tried their best to save the thin story.

      anyway, he left a bit of an impression, and i think we can expect his HotD character to be something in the range of twisted and gut-wrenching.

        Quote  Reply

    44. I’m familiar with Rhys Ifans from his major role on “Berlin Station”. Charismatic guy, a great actor, and a bit of a scene-stealer. He’s probably the best catch for HotD so far. Really good news.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Dame of Mercia,

      I’ve just thought, my previous comment may have sounded like I was unconcerned about people from the northern USA or Canada which isn’t the case. It’s just that in the UK the news has talked about snow in states like Texas and Tennessee.

      Returning to the topic of the thread, it is heartening that a number of visitors to the site feel the actors mentioned are decent at their craft (or art or skill or profession, however folk like to call it).

        Quote  Reply

    46. Mr Derp:
      Congrats to Kit and Rose on baby #1! That boy is going to have to fight with Sophie’s daughter for King/Queen in the North status.

      So… a firstborn female heiress and a younger, male heir vying for the throne? Somebody ought to make a TV series about that.
      Oh…wait…

        Quote  Reply

    47. Dame of Mercia:
      Dame of Mercia,

      …Returning to the topic of the thread, it is heartening that a number of visitors to the site feel the actors mentioned are decent at their craft (or art or skill or profession, however folk like to call it).

      ⚠️ Warning! Thread Derailment Ahead! 🛤 🚂
      In the absence of on-topic discussions for over three days, I hope the community won’t mind an off-topic, GoT-related musical interlude that may
      require the hashtag #ARLTA.

      All Roads Lead to Arya.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Ten Bears: ⚠️ Warning! Thread Derailment Ahead! 🛤 🚂
      In the absence of on-topic discussions for over three days, I hope the community won’t mind an off-topic, GoT-related musical interlude that may
      require the hashtag #ARLTA.

      Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia. It stars Kate Hudson, Leslie Odom Jr., and introducing Maddie Ziegler as Music. They break into these bizarre music video interludes! (at least 5 or 6 or 7 times). Some of the inflated costumes reminded me of the Oopa Loompas in Willy Wonka. Maddie’s character “Music” is autistic and I think the music videos were showing us what was going on in her head. I found it oddly effective. Can you imagine a random musical number with people in weird oompa lumpa costumes after a traumatic scene in HotD? Perhaps it’s a new genre and could be worked in! I could hear the pitch now.

      Here’s one of them… They weren’t all on YouTube. The trailer doesn’t really show much of the random video interludes… but here’s one of Maddie’s (Music’s) interludes.

      This also could be a great Musical/Play.

        Quote  Reply

    49. Adrianacandle,

      ⚠️ Semi Off-Topic, Trivial Pre-Musical Interlude
      Questions about GoT S8e2 and S8e3:

      I don’t have the episodes saved to rewatch and my memory is hazy (and I’m probably stilldisoriented by the quiet, “high thread count” content of S8e2 leading right into the frenetic, action-packed, clusterf*ck of S8e3):

      • As I recall, S8e3, “The Long Night,” opened with Winterfell’s defenders arrayed outside the castle, in the dark, awaiting the imminent approach of the Army of the Dead.
      Did the bulk of the preceding episode (S8e2, “A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms”), and especially its closing montage, take place that same evening? S8e2 and S8e3 both took place the same night, right?

      • In the latter part of S8e2 including the closing montage, were the characters choosing with whom to spend (what might be) their final hours on earth?

      • As I recall, Tyrion, Tormund, Davos et al. were drinking; Arya and Gendry were doing the horizontal bop; and Jaime and Brienne were going at it – even though the battle royale was hours away?
      They didn’t sleep off their buzz or take naps beforehand, right?

      • I guess what I’m asking is:
      Did the anxious Winterfell defenders stay awake all through the night to await the arrival of Team NK in the wee hours?

      • In colloquial terms, did the whole gang pull an all-nighter? Were they awake all through the night until the the sun came up the next day (when Mel walked off and disintegrated)?

        Quote  Reply

    50. Ten Bears,

      That was my impression — and I imagine it’d be a hard night to sleep on, knowing the army of the dead were coming but without knowing exactly when. Just that it’d be before sunrise sometime, given Tormund’s ETA. I think they even might have arrived a bit earlier than anticipated because the battle started well before sunrise/twilight.

      But that’s just a guesstimation 🙂

      Myself, I’ve pulled a ton of all nighters — especially in high anxiety situations. Well, not like facing a zombie apocalypse but like an MFA oral defense (where I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas right before). I think the longest I’ve stayed awake is 70 hrs and by then, the air was vibrating colours and I swear I could see sound 😉

      Looking forward to your musical interlude!!

        Quote  Reply

    51. Tron79,

      ”Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia.”

      From a quick Google search it looks like this movie is playing in theaters and on cable via On Demand. (Apparently, it’s gotten lousy reviews and there’s some backlash over its portrayal of autism – but I don’t take stock of reviews, and these days it seems everything invites some kind of “backlash.”)

      However, if Tron79 gives “Music” a thumb’s up I’ll put it on my “To Watch” List.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      ”Sounds good to me. Speaking of musical interludes, I just finished watching a very odd new movie called “Music” by Sia.”

      From a quick Google search it looks like this movie is playing in theaters and on cable via On Demand. (Apparently, it’s gotten lousy reviews and there’s some backlash over its portrayal of autism – but I don’t take stock of reviews, and these days it seems everything invites some kind of “backlash.”)

      However, if Tron79 gives “Music” a thumb’s up I’ll put it on my “To Watch” List.

      I give it a thumbs up. I haven’t read the reviews yet. Regarding autism, it’s called being on the spectrum for a reason. Not everyone is the same. Some who are barely on the spectrum may not have as many physical signs that people recognize, but they still may have behavioral symptoms, such as not being able to understand social cues. Music’s character was pretty high up on the spectrum IMHO. I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost famous. I almost didn’t recognize her with her “burr” haircut. Leslie Odom Jr. (of Hamilton fame) was also very good. I think this could be made into a great Broadway play/musical. Most of the interaction was between Leslie Odom Jr. and Kate Hudson. Also much of the movie takes place in a little NYC apartment. They do venture out some. There were also some very likable neighborhood characters. Anyway, it’s definitely something different than the usual fare out there. I rented it on Amazon. They already dropped the price some from the usual early release movies, so my guess is the reaction has been less than enthusiastic from the masses. But according to Tron, it gets a thumbs up. I’m lovin’ the Oompa Loompa musical interludes.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Adrianacandle,

      ”….Myself, I’ve pulled a ton of all nighters — especially in high anxiety situations. Well, not like facing a zombie apocalypse but like an MFA oral defense (where I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas right before). I think the longest I’ve stayed awake is 70 hrs and by then, the air was vibrating colours and I swear I could see sound…”

      • So sorry. I didn’t get the reference/abbreviation “MFA oral defense.” Is that a video game or something?
      • “I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas” is oddly poetic. 😬
      But as Sandor might ask: What the f*ck’s a Dundas? (I guess I can look it up…)
      • Oh, yes, I’ve been there: staying awake ~ 70 hours when it started to seem like the air was vibrating colors and I could “see” sound. (I’ve tasted black cherry bubble gum in my fingertips, but that’s another story entirely…)
      • I can’t pull all-nighters like I used to. They make me worthless for the next two or three days, unless and until I repay the sleep debt – with steep interest.
      Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.

      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.

        Quote  Reply

    54. Ten Bears: Oh, I think you did just fine. I don’t see where you (mis-)used gender pronouns. I thought “King/Queen” covered either or both.

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EdVqgF3XYAAZ44O?format=jpg&name=medium

      I’m Stannis Baratheon and I approved this message.”

      I will never forget when one of the writers on this site decided to chastise me for using the word “female”.

      Coincidentally, I also used the word “male” in the same sentence, yet that was apparently ok.

      That was insane.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Ten Bears,

      So sorry. I didn’t get the reference/abbreviation “MFA oral defense.” Is that a video game or something?

      MFA stands for Master of Fine Arts (I got it in visual arts). At the end of traditional grad programs (like in the arts and sciences), you’re required to do an oral defense. It’s basically a presentation of your thesis to a committee, who have read the thesis paper you have put together over a 2+ period and will question you about it and your supports.

      It’s a pretty nerve-wracking experience. They can either:

      a) Say, “Yay! All good! You’ve passed! You’re a master now!”

      b) Say, “It’s good but we suggest you make these revisions/address these minor areas or questions/and resubmit for approval.”

      or

      c) Say, “Nope. You’ve failed. No degree for you.”

      In most cases, ‘b’ happens. I don’t know anybody who hasn’t had to make revisions to their thesis paper. At that point, once your thesis is approved, copies are professionally printed, bound (into its own hardcover text!), and made available in that university’s library.

      I recently found my dad’s PhD thesis paper digitized online by the university!

      “I puked out the gallery window into the alleys of Dundas” is oddly poetic. 😬

      Dundas is a street in Toronto! It’s where the gallery I was presenting my oral defense was located! 😀

      The nerve-induced vomiting did bring a rosy glow to my cheeks 😉

      Oh, yes, I’ve been there: staying awake ~ 70 hours when it started to seem like the air was vibrating colors and I could “see” sound. (I’ve tasted black cherry bubble gum in my fingertips, but that’s another story entirely…)

      It’s a strange, hallucinatory experience, isn’t it? It kind of reminded me when I accidentally mixed meds and hallucinated an entire day.

      There are intense studies on what sleep deprivation does to the brain.

      Now, my question would be: was the black cherry bubble gum really there or is that what your skin tasted like after three days of no sleep?

      I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!

        Quote  Reply

    56. Tron79,

      I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost Famous.”

      Oh yes. Kate Hudson stole the show in “Almost Famous” (2000), along with Anna Paquin and Zooey Deschanel as her fellow “Band Aids.”
      Six Degrees of Game of Thrones note: I remember that Noah Taylor (“Locke” on GoT, playing against type as a bad guy) was in “Almost Famous.”

        Quote  Reply

    57. Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews. People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Many people with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you. Those music videos are out there with every primary color in the world and people doing wild motions…

      Oh well… I will leave it up to you. You do already have a bunch on your watch list!

        Quote  Reply

    58. Ten Bears:
      Tron79,

      I enjoyed Kate Hudson’s performance. I’m not sure how much you have watched her in other things, such as her role as “Penny Lane” in Almost Famous.”

      Oh yes. Kate Hudson stole the show in “Almost Famous” (2000), along with Anna Paquin and Zooey Deschanelas her fellow “Band Aids.” Six Degrees of Game of Thrones note: I remember that Noah Taylor (“Locke” on GoT, playing against type as a bad guy) was in “Almost Famous.”

      I didn’t realize a young Noah Taylor was that guy in Almost Famous! Wow. It’s also hard to believe Almost Famous came out 21 years ago!
      Thanks for the 6th degree!

        Quote  Reply

    59. Adrianacandle,

      “Now, my question would be: was the black cherry bubble gum really there or is that what your skin tasted like after three days of no sleep?”
      The black cherry bubble gum was really there (in my mouth). The hallucinatory sensation of tasting it in my fingertips was unrelated to sleep deprivation. It was sort of similar to your account of accidentally mixing meds…

      ”I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!”

      On its way. Because the song is by one of those rare talented singers who sounds just as good if not better live than in the studio, I’ve got to choose between several live versions over the span of 35 years.

        Quote  Reply

    60. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews.People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Manypeople with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you…

      For what it’s worth, Betty Gilpin played a “neuro-atypical” high-functioning autistic software engineer in Season 4 of CBS’s “Elementary” in 2016 opposite Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes.
      (Betty Gillian was in “Nurse Jackie” on Showtime in 2013 – 2015, and after “Elementary” went on to co-star in the buzzworthy series “GLOW” on Netflix in 2018-2019, though I don’t remember her in “Nurses Jackie” and haven’t watched “GLOW” – because I haven’t signed up for Netflix yet.)

      I bring this up because I thought Betty Gilpin did a great job in “Elementary” portraying someone on the “autism spectrum” without playing into cliches or stereotypes.

      Jonny Lee Miller’s Sherlock Holmes, an antisocial loner, had wonderful chemistry with Betty Gilpin as “Fiona,” a woman incapable of deception but also unable to pick up on social cues because of her neuroatypicality.

      I may try to find a couple of YouTube clips that highlighted her performance.

        Quote  Reply

    61. Tron79:
      Ten Bears,

      WOW! I just read some reviews.People were unbelievably offended!!!!!!!!!!! Manypeople with autism wrote reviews, and they were offended by the portrayal. The only thing I can say is that if you have trouble with over stimulation like some autistic people, then this movie is NOT for you…

      For what it’s worth, Betty Gilpin played a “neuro-atypical” high-functioning autistic software engineer in Season 4 of CBS’s “Elementary” in 2016 opposite Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes.
      (Betty Gillian was in “Nurse Jackie” on Showtime in 2013 – 2015, and after “Elementary” went on to co-star in the buzzworthy series “GLOW” on Netflix in 2018-2019, though I don’t remember her in “Nurses Jackie” and haven’t watched “GLOW” – because I haven’t signed up for Netflix yet.)

      I bring this up because I thought Betty Gilpin did a great job in “Elementary” portraying someone on the “autism spectrum” without playing into cliches or stereotypes.

      Jonny Lee Miller’s Sherlock Holmes, an antisocial loner, had wonderful chemistry with Betty Gilpin as “Fiona,” a woman incapable of deception but also unable to pick up on social cues because of her neuroatypicality.

      I may try to find a couple of YouTube clips that highlighted her performance.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Adrianacandle,

      “…. Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.

      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.”

      “I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!”

      My only reservation is that my understanding

      of Arya’s “Cat of the Canals” persona

      is based on my second-hand “osmosis” of book readers’ commentary, since

      the show’s Braavos storyline didn’t include Arya’s “Cat of the Canals” alter-ego, and did not show her warging into a cat or cats when she was blind. Also, I am not sure if she had “cat dreams” at night like she had wolf dreams in which she inhabited the consciousness of Nymeria. (I think?)

      And yes, I KNOW I could read the books and find out these details for myself. However, as I’ve said (whinged) before, I’m reluctant to start reading the books unless and until GRRM finishes TWOW and ADOS – or Kevin1989 finishes them for him.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Tron79: I didn’t realize a young Noah Taylor was that guy in Almost Famous!Wow. It’s also hard to believe Almost Famous came out 21 years ago!
      Thanks for the 6th degree!

      Yeah, I’m kind of a fan of Noah Taylor.
      In addition to his supporting role in Cameron Crowe’s “Almost Famous” (2000), Noah Taylor was the tech support hologram in “Vanilla Sky” (2001), Cameron Crowe’s follow-up movie.

      ”Vanilla Sky” (adapted from a Spanish language movie of a different name) was ambitious, trippy and thought-provoking – but kind of depressing. I watched it because I was misled by the title. I thought it’d be fun. 😟Cameron Diaz was excellent though; she played against type as Tom Cruise’s character’s jilted girlfriend; Penelope Cruz played his prospective new girlfriend/soulmate.

      Oh, and Noah Taylor was really good as Emily Blunt’s scientist sidekick in “Edge of Tomorrow” (2014), a sci fi movie I really enjoyed, and as Angelina Jolie’s sidekick in the 2001 and 2003 Lara Croft “Tomb Raider” movies.*
      I think “Locke” may be the only character in any of his shows or films that I’ve seen in which he plays a bad guy.

      * Six Degrees of GoT cont.: In one of the Lara Croft movies, Lara Croft’s (apparent) frenemy was played by an impossibly handsome, impeccably dressed actor with a mellifluous voice. Instant man-crush on my part.

      It wasn’t until he started talking to Angelina Jolie that I exclaimed out loud: “Holy sh*t! That’s Jorah F*cking Mormont!”

        Quote  Reply

    64. Adrianacandle,

      (from 2:40 pm re: All-Nighters):
      TB wrote: “Though it’s been many years, I distinctly remember times when I’d tell myself that all through the night, I’ll be awake.
      So where was I??? Oh yeah. Musical Interlude…Not sure though if it should relate to “The Long Night” or to Cat of the Canals.”

      Adrianacandle replied at 2:49 pm:
      ”I’d be curious about a Cat of the Canals musical interlude!
      …………………………
      ⚠️Musical Interlude
      Dedicated to “The Long Night” – or
      to Cat of the Canals

      🎶”All through the night
      I’ll be awake, and I’ll be with you.”🎶
      ***
      🎶 “All through the night
      Stray cat is crying, so stray cat sings back
      All through the night
      They have forgotten, what by day they lack
      Oh, under those white street lamps
      There is a little chance they may see
      We have no past,
      We won’t reach back…”🎶

      at 1:19:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIjWfvSz-bo

      • “All Through the Night” – Cyndi Lauper live, Sept. 21, 1984 on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson [4:43 long]

      …. or 30 years later….
      at 1:18
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yluGnvOazU

      • “All Through the Night” – Cyndi Lauper live, 2014 [4:51 long]
      In my view, both of these renditions are better than the studio (album) version. Maybe that’s because in both of the live versions – even the low-tech recording made from TV in 1984 – I didn’t realize at first that it’s her singing the long notes at the end. It sounded so other-worldly and pitch perfect that at first I thought I was listening to a musical instrument or synthesizer.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Since this year it will be twenty years since “LOTR:The Fellowship Of The Ring” was released in theatres, as a musical interlude, here is “The Breaking Of The Fellowship”, one of my favourite bits of music courtesy of the amazing Howard Shore…

        Quote  Reply

    66. Aaand of course because it would be impossible to think of the LOTR trilogy in general, and “The Fellowship Of The Ring” in particular without this song, here is the lyric video for “May It Be” by Enya:

        Quote  Reply

    67. loco73,

      Uh oh. Enya? Now you’re getting into

      Arya musical interlude territory (see S4s10 final segment through closing credits – Ramin Djawadi’s lush “The Children” as Arya sails away to Braavos; and the final montage in S8e6 as Arya sails away on her direwolf ship.)

      . Enya’s “Orinoco Flow (Sail Away)” is queued up and ready to go.
      Apologies in advance to commenters who are piqued

      by Arya-centric posts.

      .

        Quote  Reply

    68. Ten Bears,

      In AFFC, Arya is still having wolf dreams — though she thinks she should not be having them because she is trying to shed her identity as Arya Stark — but yes, I believe the following may possibly be a cat dream:

      That night she dreamed she was a wolf again, but it was different from the other dreams. In this dream she had no pack. She prowled alone, bounding over rooftops and padding silently beside the banks of a canal, stalking shadows through the fog.

      This sounds more like a cat than a wolf — for instance, wolves (and dogs) don’t typically bound over rooftops.

      But yes, Arya can warg cats and I think it can be argued she’s always had a kind of special connection to cats 🙂

      And that is a wonderful song choice for a Cat of the Canals musical interlude! I enjoyed all the variations but I think there’s always something so magical about live versions because it’s happening live. It’s like magic watching somebody sing in real time without any technological assistance. Just them.

      loco73,

      Thank you so much for linking these LoTR songs! ;0;

        Quote  Reply

    69. Ten Bears,

      I expect you know that Enya is sister to some of the members of Clannad – I think she was in Clannad herself at one time.

      Adrianacandle,

      Though I was glad a lot of the waffle and slog was cut out of AFFC and ADWD for the show (not wanting to tread on any book purists’ toes but I probably am going to though it’s not done maliciously) I would have liked to see the bit where blind Arya discovered something whilst warged into a cat (I won’t say what Arya’s discovery was as I don’t want to spoil too much for anyone who might read the books in the future and I’m rubbish at inserting spoiler tags).

      Bearing in mind my last sentence

      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS
      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS
      SPOILER IF YOU HAVEN’T READ THE BOOKS

      In the books it was implied that the old black tomcat who roamed around the Red Keep and couldn’t be caught was the kitten owned by Rhaegar’s little daughter who was slain. There used to be someone who posted here in the earlier days of this site (or it could have been its predecessor) as ‘Balerion the Cat’. Though I think you’ve read the books more times than me – I only went through them once, so you are no doubt well aware of that plot point.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Dame of Mercia,

      Oh, are you talking about the cat Arya was chasing around the Red Keep under the tutelage of Syrio being Rhaenys’s kitten grown up? (“Older than sin and twice as mean”)

      And yes, later, when Arya is blind, she has a tomcat purring in her lap and for a moment, can see:

      As the hours passed the tavern filled. Pynto was soon too busy to pay her any mind, but several of his regulars dropped coins into her begging bowl. Other tables were occupied by strangers: Ibbenese whalers who reeked of blood and blubber, a pair of bravos with scented oil in their hair, a fat man out of Lorath who complained that Pynto’s booths were too small for his belly. And later three Lyseni, sailors off the Goodheart, a storm-wracked galley that had limped into Braavos last night and been seized this morning by the Sealord’s guards.

      The Lyseni took the table nearest to the fire and spoke quietly over cups of black tar rum, keeping their voices low so no one could overhear. But she was no one and she heard most every word. And for a time it seemed that she could see them too, through the slitted yellow eyes of the tomcat purring in her lap. One was old and one was young and one had lost an ear, but all three had the white-blond hair and smooth fair skin of Lys, where the blood of the old Freehold still ran strong.

      The next morning, when the kindly man asked her what three things she knew that she had not known before, she was ready.

      I believe, here, we learn what happened to one of the slaver ships that were driven to Hardhome by the storms, whereupon they picked up-then grateful wildlings… but the pirates intended to sell them as slaves. However, thanks to the storms, the Goodheart is forced to go to Braavos instead, where slave trade is forbidden and the ship is seized.

      Also, when she’s being trained blind so she better uses her other four senses and she’s being attacked by a stick, she finds that the voice instructing her is unfamiliar. However, she later reveals to the kindly man it was him who was attacking her.

        Quote  Reply

    71. I watched a video about reverse applique today and the presenter said something about the activity (which was a simplified version – about right for me) was one of the ‘funnest’ things to do. I don’t think Stannis would have approved of the word (or is it?) ‘funnest’. Though the ‘Stop the steal’ with the last American president confused me. In the UK ‘steal’ isn’t usually used as a noun but rather as a verb. There is a context where something can be described as a ‘steal’ if somebody gets a worthwhile bargain but the context of people thinking an election result was fraudulent being fraudulent jarred rather with me.

      Adriana, this is only a small point so I don’t really think it’s a spoiler but in either AFFC or ADWD the old black cat at one point looks into Tommen’s bedroom (book Tommen being younger than show Tommen) at Tommen with his (Tommen’s) kittens.

        Quote  Reply

    72. Adrianacandle,
      ”…And that [“All Through the Night”] is a wonderful song choice for a Cat of the Canals musical interlude! I enjoyed all the variations but I think there’s always something so magical about live versions because it’s happening live. It’s like magic watching somebody sing in real time without any technological assistance. Just them.”
      ————-
      Because you/we have an affinity for bouncy “trampoline” songs,

      I should have included links to the full length videos of Cyndi Lauper’s two appearances in 1984 on The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson: On both occasions, she started off with a “trampoline song” (then gave an entertaining/zany interview, before singing a lovely ballad – completely dispelling any notion that she was just a ditzy airhead with funny hair.)

      Here are the two links if you’re interested:

      March 1, 1984 Cyndi Lauper live on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson [16:45 total length]

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-yis9av6xc

      🎶“Girls Just Want to Have Fun” (0:40 – 4:30)
      + Interview (4:31 to 10:31)
      +🎶 “Time After Time” (10:32 – 15:11)
      + Concluding chat (15:11-16:29)

      September 21, 1984 Cyndi Lauper live on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson [19:17 total length]

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPfu9V_VS-A

      🎶 “She Bop” (0:46 – 4:49)
      + Interview (4:50 – 12:16)
      + 🎶 “All Through the Night” (12:22 – 17:13)
      + Concluding chat (17:14 – 19:14)

      P.S.

      But for the website algorithms that divert to Moderation Purgatory comments embedding more than two links,

      I would have included another “trampoline song”

      – a bookend to “All Through the Night”/at the end of The Long Night.

      Maybe later…

        Quote  Reply

    73. Dame of Mercia,

      Are you thinking of this passage?

      At that hour, her son was fast asleep, but Cersei looked in upon him before seeking her own bed. She was surprised to find three black kittens cuddled up beside him. “Where did those come from?” she asked Ser Meryn Trant, outside the royal bedchamber.

      “The little queen gave them to him. She only meant to give him one, but he couldn’t decide which one he liked the best.”

      Better than cutting them out of their mother with a dagger, I suppose. Margaery’s clumsy attempts at seduction were so obvious as to be laughable. Tommen is too young for kisses, so she gives him kittens. Cersei rather wished they were not black, though. Black cats brought ill luck, as Rhaegar’s little girl had discovered in this very castle. She would have been my daughter, if the Mad King had not played his cruel jape on Father. It had to have been the madness that led Aerys to refuse Lord Tywin’s daughter and take his son instead, whilst marrying his own son to a feeble Dornish princess with black eyes and a flat chest.”

      Ten Bears,

      Thank-you so much! I’m familiar with quite a few of these songs and they would be perfect bouncers!! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    74. Hey, folks. Random question: do we have a Discord server? If not, we should have one! I’d love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Farimer123:
      Hey, folks. Random question: do we have a Discord server? If not, we should have one! I’d love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.

      I do not know what a “Discord Server” is. I don’t know if I or we have one, or should have one. (I’m computer illiterate.)
      If I Google it will I understand it? (“IPs,” “servers.” flux capacitors…none of that stuff makes sense to me.)

        Quote  Reply

    76. Dame of Mercia,

      Oh, of course! That epilogue passage! Thanks! 😀

      Ten Bears,

      It’s an application that allows text and voice chat, as well as live streaming — first became popular with gamers.

      I use it for online Dungeons and Dragons with my party and am part of a giant YouTuber gossip Discord for which my friend is part of the admin team 🙂

      Farimer,

      As far as I know, WotW doesn’t have a Discord server. I think there are two issues with it (as far as I can tell) currently: it requires learning a new app (for people who don’t know what it is/don’t want to download it) and would need a neutral and solid admin/mod team to keep things running smoothly. In my experience, private or small-group chats are fine without admin teams but when groups get larger than that, things can get messy. Just my perspective, though 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    77. Dame of Mercia,

      Ah, I see we’re on a cat-centric sub-thread. 🐈‍⬛

      Hold on…Did I start this by interposing a Long Night + Cat of the Canals musical interlude?I suppose I could go off on Arya chasing and studying cats at Syrio’s prompting, which enabled her to acquire critical intel (which her dad blew off), but also enabled her to escape from the Red Keep and elude Meryn F*cking Trant and his goons. In many respects I’d suggest show! Arya took on more characteristics of cats than wolves.

      [/spoiler]

        Quote  Reply

    78. Adrianacandle,

      ”As far as I know, WotW doesn’t have a Discord server. I think there are two issues with it (as far as I can tell) currently: it requires learning a new app (for people who don’t know what it is…”

      “People” like me. 🤥

      ”…and would need a neutral and solid admin/mod team to keep things running smoothly.”

      I’d imagine Sue and the other members of WotW’s administrator and moderator team(s) have already devoted countless hours (over how many years has it been?) keeping this site up and running and running smoothly.

      While I don’t know what’s involved in monitoring Discord group texts and chats, might it be a bit presumptuous to expect them to take on even more work and responsibilities?

      You observed that in your experience “private or small-group chats are fine without admin teams but when groups get larger than that, things can get messy.” It’s not uncommon for Comments Sections here to exceed hundreds of posts (even in GoT’s off-seasons as well as its post-mortem period). With few exceptions everyone who comes here is civil and respectful, even when they disagree.

      If a group “Discord” chat is anything like YouTube comments sections, wouldn’t it take just one or two “trolls” or sh*tposters to turn a group chat or text string into a cesspool of non-stop back and forth name-calling and personal insults?

      Finally, we do have the Forum Section for those who, like Faramir, would “love to talk with all of you without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.” However, for whatever reason (e.g., reports of difficulties registering; unfamiliarity; temporary spam infestation; etc.), the Forum Section has been an underutilized resource. With only a handful of participants, it’s hard to generate lively discussions.

      I wish that weren’t the case:

      Then I, and my fellow Sandoristas and ASNAWP fanboys and fangirls, could discuss Arya and the Hound to our hearts’ content without upsetting anyone (or using spoiler-coding and thread derailment warnings). In any event, Maisie Williams seems to have virtually disappeared: Even with the pandemic interruptions, she’s got no new TV or film projects pending as far as I can tell. (Good for her! She’s taking time to enjoy life away from the camera, just like she said she planned on doing. We should all be so fortunate.) So, there’s a built-in guardrail limiting excessive ASNAWP thread derailments. For now…

      I guess the same considerations apply to

      those who still want to continue venting their displeasure with “D&D” or engage in “S8 sucked” vs. “S8 was brilliant” debates.
      I mean, no matter how one feels about whether GoT stuck the landing, or crashed and burned on the runway, those topics have been beaten to death. Besides, there are enough hours-long, hypercritical YouTube videos uploaded by that demanding dragon guy and scores of other armchair quarterbacks to quench in perpetuity anyone’s thirst for vitriol directed at “Dumb & Dumber.”

      . A dedicated Forum Page might be a more appropriate place for that.
      But I digress…

      Speaking only for myself, I would welcome, and reply to, any insights on any subject by Faramir, “without needing an excuse to do so in the form of a new piece of news.”.
      If an off-topic comment or subthread doesn’t pique my interest…I simply don’t read it, skip over it, or refrain from clicking on the grey spoiler cover. I assume everyone else has the same options.

      At the same time, I do appreciate being exposed to shows, films and music recommended and discussed by other commenters.

      Anyway, at this juncture, there’s not a whole lot of HotD news to analyze. Nor have there been any substantive ASOIAF updates from the Big Kahuna to ignite serious discussions or generate worthwhile speculation.

      The real world has been a Dystopian hellscape; I’d rather read everyone’s comments here than watch the latest outrage on TV news, or read alternative facts spewed by science-deniers in the newspaper. (Don’t mind me. I’m in Florida: the epicenter of Covid-19 and the superspreading morons who pretend it doesn’t exist. 😡)

        Quote  Reply

    79. Ten Bears,

      While I don’t know what’s involved in monitoring Discord group texts and chats, might it be a bit presumptuous to expect them to take on even more work and responsibilities?

      A Discord would be a 24/7 thing to monitor since chat is instant and all the time (even on slow mode) — it’s a different dynamic because of that. It’s not like a forum or a board where we post more intermittently in a more-organized-thought-fashion, it’s an instant back and forth. It’s more like group texting and sometimes, yeah, things can get pretty heated — no matter how civil the group can be. Conversation can also be more difficult to follow if the chat is active due to the slew of text.

      I think that’s one of the drawbacks of Discord vs a forum or board.

      If a group “Discord” chat is anything like YouTube comments sections, wouldn’t it take just one or two “trolls” or sh*tposters to turn a group chat or text string into a cesspool of non-stop back and forth name-calling and personal insults?

      And that’s why I think a pretty solid admin team would probably need to be on top of things. Even without such, even the most civil groups can succumb to disagreements and arguments since we’re all human. I think these would need fair and neutral moderation just to keep things under control and to keep the space feeling okay for all.

      A dedicated Forum Page might be a more appropriate place for that.

      I agree. A forum would probably be the most appropriate but I also think, when things get quiet here due to lack of news, it can be nice to have a natural break.

      If an off-topic comment or subthread doesn’t pique my interest…I simply don’t read it, skip over it, or refrain from clicking on the grey spoiler cover. I assume everyone else has the same options.

      I think so too. And I think using the spoiler codes to hide OT conversation can help people not interested in such to scroll through threads faster.

        Quote  Reply

    80. Adrianacandle,

      [Your reply to my 3:33 pm comment*):
      ”Thank-you so much! I’m familiar with quite a few of these songs and they would be perfect bouncers!! 😀”

      * From my 3:33 pm Comment:
      “…I would have included another “trampoline song”

      – a bookend to “All Through the Night”/at the end of The Long Night…”

      Bookend coming soon. I’m trying to decide between a live version, a studio (audio) version, or both. I also realized it’s got a cat lyric too. (”Scat, alley cat!” )

        Quote  Reply

    81. Adrianacandle,

      and Ten Bears – and everyone really, I tried to use the forums recently but when I had made the post I was asked to sign in BUT I WAS ALREADY SIGNED IN. I tried to report the problem to the mods and was told to sign in. DoM gave up in frustration.

        Quote  Reply

    82. Dame of Mercia,

      I totally got what you meant! I think the forums these days are kind of on sabbatical.

      Ten Bears: Bookend coming soon. I’m trying to decide between a live version, a studio (audio) version, or both. I also realized it’s got a cat lyric too. (”Scat, alley cat!” )

      Looking forward to it!

      Quoted cat lyric reminded me of Pheobe Buffay’s Smelly Cat from Friends… and that music video XD

        Quote  Reply

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