Curtain Call: Kit Harington

gameofthrones15_105

Kit Harington has been with us as part of Game of Thrones since day one. In July 2009 – a whole six years ago – he announced his excitement at being in an upcoming HBO show. Little did we, or he know, that just over two years later, he and the show would be a staple of both pop and mainstream culture. Both are now a worldwide phenomenon.

Six years… that’s a hell of a long time to both win the audience’s hearts and run the risk of losing them. In Kit’s case, he won them, and he held them. Many fans had their doubts about his casting over the years, but in truth, Kit dominated the last two seasons as Jon Snow.

And now Jon Snow is gone.

As fans of the show, these are always difficult moments for us. To become acquainted with a character through the life-giving abilities of the actor is a wonderful thing – a wonderful thing which only makes it all the more terrible to lose them. Ned, Robb, Cat, Oberyn, Stannis and now Jon. All taken when their actors had so much more to give. It’s tragic not only from a story perspective, but in the sense that we will never again see another scene with these actors in the roles we love them for – that’s it.

Not only has Kit proven to be an adept actor, he also happens to be the best swordsman among the cast. He strives to do all of his own stunts, and it shows. He threw everything he could into portraying Jon, and the show has been significantly enhanced by his presence as a cast member.

Jon-Snow-Season-4-jon-snow-36898045-745-1004While Kit is starring in HBO’s 7 Days in Hell (debuting on July 11), it seems as though he is not currently working on any other projects. However, after his blockbuster success in Pompeii, and his worldwide renown from Thrones, it’s only a matter of time before we see him next year in Game of Thrones in another project.

Kit Harington was the bread and butter of Thrones. He was certainly one of, if not THE most recognisable face of the show – and that’s due to a lot more than his good looks. Over the seasons he has delivered an incredible amount of solid work as Jon, and deserves all the merit we can give him. In five years we saw him grow from a naive, slightly haughty boy, into a capable warrior, an admirable leader, and most strikingly, a caring friend. He even became a father figure to Olly this season, offering him opportunities he would have had no chance of otherwise.

The believability of this character growth was thanks to Kit’s performance, as he drew everything he could and more out of the material he was given. We have followed Jon Snow’s journey for five whole years, and now it looks as if that character’s journey is at an end. I believe that it is in no way hyperbolic to suggest that Jon’s loss has made more forceful tremors among the fanbase than the Red Wedding itself did. That was the strength of Kit’s contribution to the show, and that is the strength of his loss.

It is with heavy hearts that we all bid a fond farewell to both Jon and Kit. Here’s to the man and the character, the character and the man. We watched one grow as an actor, honing his craft before our eyes. We watched the other grow as his own man, taking inspiration from all the right places. We watched both give their all in a show we love.

Until next year. See ya Kit.

And now his watch is ended.

393 responses

Jump to (and Always Support) the Bottom

    1. The moment he was stabbed, my very unsullied wife said “There’s no way he’s dead. Mel’s right there, and he is WAY too cute for him to be cut from the show”.

      We’ve always liked Kit’s portrayal of Jon, and would be disappointed if it didn’t continue.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Question; if he returns next year. Can we atleast see this article modified to something more fitting? Like “Before the curtain call : Kit Harrington” and then adding if everywhere.

        Quote  Reply

    3. davy:
      Question; if he returns next year. Can we atleast see this article modified to something more fitting? Like “Before the curtain call : Kit Harrington” and then adding if everywhere.

      They can just change the article and say Bran time travel edited it.

        Quote  Reply

    4. Kit grew to his role fairly quickly and when he got more to do in the show he was able to perform really well. Along with Dillane, he’s one actor who’s changed how I see his character in the books as well. He’ll be missed.

        Quote  Reply

    5. ‘Bye for now, Kit. I believe you’ll be back at some point in Season 7. That’s what the tea-leaves are telling me right now. In the meantime, good fortune.

        Quote  Reply

    6. davy,

      Haha, good one.

      Say, why Kit Harington got a curtain call if his death is uncertain, and Rory McCann didn’t? Cleganebowl may be a believable theory, but as of now it’s just a fan theory.

        Quote  Reply

    7. I’ll miss him. I don’t know if the books and the show can ever be the same for me without him… time will tell, I guess.

        Quote  Reply

    8. Morgoth:
      Say, why Kit Harington got a curtain call if his death is uncertain, and Rory McCann didn’t? Cleganebowl may be a believable theory, but as of now it’s just a fan theory.

      Nobody associated with the show ever claimed the Hound was dead. Indeed, the writers have pointedly refused to say.

        Quote  Reply

    9. Cian:
      Morgoth,

      Jon Snow was clearly shown dying on screen. The Hound wasn’t.

      It’s as simple as that!

      The hound was also clearly dying… If Stannis was clearly dying, then so was the Hound.

        Quote  Reply

    10. davy:
      Question; if he returns next year. Can we atleast see this article modified to something more fitting? Like “Before the curtain call : Kit Harrington” and then adding if everywhere.

      The character really did die on screen, so it’s legit. He may actually end up with two curtain calls depending on how the endgame plays out!

        Quote  Reply

    11. Cian:
      Maybe I should add

      DISCLAIMER: I’M NOT AN IDIOT

      at the bottom. Come on, guys.

      Maybe we should add the disclaimer.

      Disclaimer : We are not serious

      ? 😛

        Quote  Reply

    12. Over the seasons he has delivered an incredible amount of solid work as Jon, and deserves all the merit we can give him. In five years we saw him grow from a naive, slightly haughty boy, into a capable warrior, an admirable leader, and most strikingly, a caring friend.

      Like you, I think Kit made this character his own and grew with it too. I am truly impressed and I hope to see him WoW me sometime in the future again.

      PS. You better not jinx Jon Snuh with this Curtain Call Cian! 😉

        Quote  Reply

    13. Pigeon:
      It’s almost a little sad how unsuccessful they’ve been at trying to make us believe he’s out.

      That’s not really surprising … LS really has been out all this time and still people keep finding reasons to believe!

        Quote  Reply

    14. I believe that indeed “and now his watch has ended”. Absolutely, Jon Snow, Lord Commander of the Nights Watch has died. Kit Harrington brought the character that is so beloved to life for us giving a bit more year after year. As LC Jon Snow, bravo and kudos on the brave and wonderful work.

      For the rest…..I do hope that we see Jon Whateveritisgoingtobe in season 7 maybe cliff hanger for season 6 even?. But it won’t be as part of the Nights Watch. 🙂

      Though I have to be honest, just to read the words makes me a bit misty. *sigh*

        Quote  Reply

    15. Cian: DISCLAIMER: I’M NOT AN IDIOT

      Given that they missed all of the crossed-out lines, I doubt that it would have helped!

      That written, I’m seriously wondering what is up.

        Quote  Reply

    16. I may be wrong but I think they purposely made Stannis’s and Myrcella’s death scenes a bit more ambiguous then usual, while with Jon they really wanted us to think he is dead.
      But in the the end it will be Jon’s who resurrected while the other two will remain dead (or so I think) .
      The ambiguous death of Stannis might also perhaps have been planned to be a bit of distraction. It keep people guessing about who is really dead.

        Quote  Reply

    17. Rory kind of did get a Curtain Call over at WiC. Axechucker wrote it. In his way. In that he wrote a post called a Curtain Call but semi-refused to actually write the post in the post. Wiseass.

      Anyway, the deal is, every writer is their own person. No one is required to write something a certain way. And no character is guaranteed a Curtain Call for that matter, for a real or a fake-out death. We do these tribute posts because we want to, not out of obligation. No one’s forced to write about a character they don’t want to write about.

        Quote  Reply

    18. ” He even became a father figure to Olly this season, offering him opportunities he would have had no chance of otherwise.”

      And see how that worked out for him…

        Quote  Reply

    19. Wimsey,

      Right? I saw all the crossed out stuff too. Now, are you implying that maybe you think we have all been punked by GRRM and D & D and taken all signs to mean one thing and then….PSYCHE….they didn’t mean any of it at all???

        Quote  Reply

    20. Boudica:
      I may be wrong but I think they purposely made Stannis’s and Myrcella’s death scenes a bit more ambiguous then usual, while with Jon they really wanted us to think he is dead.
      But in the the end it will be Jon’s who resurrected while the other two will remain dead (or so I think) .
      The ambiguous death of Stannis might also perhaps have been planned to be a bit of distraction. It keep people guessing about who is really dead.

      They also kept Sansa’s fate ambiguous (and Arya’s, to a lesser extent).

        Quote  Reply

    21. Thank you for that. I need to believe that Jon Snow is coming back. I was devastated at his death. I have been obsessed with him since Day 1! I NEED him to come back!!

        Quote  Reply

    22. Nope.

      But on the subject of his career, Kit was also wonderful in a film called Testament of Youth. It debuted in the UK this past fall and was just released in the US. It’s based on a memoir of the First World War and was very well done.

        Quote  Reply

    23. if jon will have a second life in a dragon (the stone dragon of dragonstone or one of the two dragons remained in Meeren) wouldn’t this make sense enugh to have had jon snow as a character?
      But Kit Harington wouldn’t play that character anymore…

        Quote  Reply

    24. KG,

      But at least they aren’t overdoing it like Martin does it in his books,even the cliffhanger ones like

      Brienne supposedely being hanged or Davos being sentenced to death,that is truly cheap and i don’t know why that became so frequent in the latest books

      . Oh wait there was that Tyrion chapter with the Stonemen where we were supposed to believe he was drowning,they kinda did that in the show but in a more clever way imo .

        Quote  Reply

    25. I protest
      This must be taken down!!!!!!

      I am not reading this.

      Jk. I am
      But on my phone now at the gym and not the best place to do so

      #allmenmustdieexceptjonsnow

        Quote  Reply

    26. Robith,

      And what if there isn’t going to be a Cleganebowl,what if it’s just some random guy the Faith picks for the trial and they don’t meet until the last book or season in the show case ? Because if Cersei loses the trial she is pretty much fucked and i don’t think she will die until much later .

        Quote  Reply

    27. Deesensfan:

      #allmenmustdieexceptjonsnow

      He wasn’t really a man though… still just a boy.

      I’m guessing they killed him off, so they can use the money they were spending on (Jon) Snow to pay for some actual (or fake) snow, to make Winter look more convincing on the show. Snow will still be on our screens, just in a different form.

        Quote  Reply

    28. I was never his biggest fan (certainly not after S03),but S04 and S05 made a very good impression on me. He shined in those seasons.From the naive bastard boy…..all the way to Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch.Quite a journey for Jon Snuuu.I would be sad,if they’re going to hire another actor for the future.

      Meanwhile in heaven…

      Jon:Whoa… so this is heaven? Cool. **with the face of a man who knows nothing**
      Ned:Ohhh… nice to see you,nephew.
      Jon:Father?What???Nephew?????? **knowing nothing intesifies**
      Ned:Well, that’s what I want to talk about all those years. I’m not your father and your mother… it’s rather complicated.
      Jon:Ok, so who are my parents?
      Robert:Tell him that secret Ned ,before I’ll piss myself.
      Ned:Well, your parents are…
      **ressurected**
      Jon:Oh, shit.

      Well Kit…see ya in the season 6 or 7.I hope. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    29. The last photo in this article says it all. Love the little smirk on Kit’s face.

      Great write-up, Cian! See you soon, Kit!

        Quote  Reply

    30. Ser Florian,

      Really,after all the badass things he did this season like chopping off Slynt’s head,killing a WHITE WALKER,and that’s not to mention the things he did at the battle of the Wall last season,he is a manly man .

        Quote  Reply

    31. I hope Jon Snow’s dead and doesn’t come back.

      Because that would make it a bold move and a challenge to still keep folks interested in the most important storyline: the White Walkers coming. It’s by creating and overcoming challenges that GoT can continue its greatness.

      And why is ‘the Wall storyline’ going without Jon Snow and Kit Harrington a challenge? Because he was so good he drew so much fans to like it and the character. Well done, Kit Harrington, and good luck in future projects (also hope you weren’t messing with us in all those interviews).

        Quote  Reply

    32. I don’t believe Kit is really done with the show, but if he is, I won’t watch it anymore. I hope we find out for sure early in season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    33. A Man Grown,

      If he is indeed in Season 6, we’ll find out way, way before Season 6 even begin. There’s simply no way they could be able to hide the fact Kit is in without some kind of leak. If all this “Kit is done with the show” is a mummer’s farce (as I’m sure it is), then we’ll find out sooner than later.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Pigeon,

      I don’t know why, but I am having some doubts.

      JonSnow25,

      Bahahahaha . Gold!

      Ser Florian: He wasn’t really a man though… still just a boy.

      I’m guessing they killed him off, so they can use the money they were spending on (Jon) Snow to pay for some actual (or fake) snow, to make Winter look more convincing on the show. Snow will still be on our screens, just in a different form.

      He looks man to me 😉
      and funny ha ha ha – No we need Jon Snow/Kit Harington back. The show just wont be the same.

        Quote  Reply

    35. Morgoth,

      Rory McCann did receive a Curtain Call back on The Site That Shall Not Be Named. Axechucker wrote it, and he coped with the Hound’s ambiguous fate on the show by reveling in his denial to humorous effect. Irrespective of the content of the post, however, the intent in posting that Curtain Call was the same: to give people an opportunity to celebrate Rory’s performance and contributions to Game of Thrones while the memories were still fresh, if they chose to do so. And many people did.

      I won’t link to it, because I don’t really want to give them traffic, even on an ancient page. But if you Google “Rory McCann Curtain Call”, it comes up as the top result.

      For that matter, Michelle Fairley also received a Curtain Call after Season 3, back when people thought there was a reasonable possibility that she might return to the show at a later date. So far, she hasn’t reappeared, and at this point it’s highly unlikely that she ever will. If the site administrators had rested easy on their certainty that Michelle was coming back in the next season, then she never would have received any kind of formal send-off from this community. That would have been a shame.

      (In a humorous aside, Tom Wlaschiha also received a Curtain Call at the end of Season 2. That one obviously turned out to be premature. That particular case is easy to forgive, however, as at that time none of us had any way of knowing that he would eventually return).

      Like virtually everyone in the world, I think Kit Harington and Jon Snow are coming back to the show. But there’s nothing wrong with giving people a place to honor his performance, if only as a safeguard against the miniscule possibility that he is truly finished on the show. He gave a wonderful performance as Jon Snow, especially this year, and he deserves all of the recognition Game of Thrones fans can give him. If – scratch that, when – he returns to the show, no harm done 🙂

      Even though I’m sure Kit’s “departure” from the show is a ruse, I would gladly write a lengthy tribute for him, if only so that I could talk about how great he was this season, especially in the final few episodes. Unfortunately, I don’t have time this week (I haven’t even gotten around to saluting the other five actors in this casualty-heavy finale whose characters are definitely dead and gone). I will say, however, that Kit will be receiving my vote for Best Actor whenever Watchers on the Wall holds its awards for Season 5. His storyline was the highlight of what I thought was a very strong season, and he was excellent from beginning to end.

        Quote  Reply

    36. I have said this before, and every one knows. I will not be happy without Jon “Kit Harington” Snow returning to the show. To me he is a key character in a story. They have built him up so much since season 1, especially with all these hints and foreshadowing in season 5. Could we all be so wrong about that? Could it been a ploy to make us think he was more important than he actually is? Could D&D have decided that they will change GRRM’s plans of keeping him around (if that were the case)? That would suck. And I get worried mostly because they would know how impossible it would be to hide Kit’s return to the show with out a leak of some sort. Along with the recent interviews and what not.

      Anyway, if he truly is gone, he will be missed as an actor and a character, and my enthusiasm for the show will drop by A LOT.

      And now his watch has ended.

      Question – Why would D&D bring JS back and not Catelyn (I haven’t read the books so I know I have been spoiled about that).

        Quote  Reply

    37. I just don’t get how they can do this. When I saw it in the book, I thought it couldn’t be real, the next book will show us what really happens. But I guess it doesn’t? It just doesn’t make sense – whats going to happen to the Wall story now? Well supposedly D&D is following George’s vision on this – we’ll see what happens

      That being said – a big thank you to Kit for making this character, beloved in the books, even more beloved on screen. It was a joy to watch you mature as an actor and watch you bring your character to true leader status. Best wishes for your future plans (crossing my fingers that they might include GOT in season 7…..)

        Quote  Reply

    38. Wow, the denial across the fandom really is staggering.

      Kit took a while to grow on me. He most definitely has never been my image of Jon Snow (his age being a major factor), but his version of Jon definitely won me over in the past couple seasons. He just kept getting better and better as more was demanded of him.

      This culminated in the look of complete despair on his face as he watched the Night’s King raise the wildlings from the dead. It was one of the most haunting moments from the entire show, and Kit nailed the horror and dread of the moments.

      Farewell Kit. The Night’s Watch is screwed without you. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    39. Kit I love ya man!

      So sad your character had to die just as, IMO, you became the most badass hero of the show. Making tough choices, walking into a camp of like 10,000 wildlings with half a dozen men. You were a fearless leader!

      You’re character, like you, is in his early 20s but has already been more battle-hardened then most Westeros soldiers in their 40s.

      It was so fun watching you grow from a naïve teen to the man you have become.

      Your character, like you, is irreplaceable. Because of this fact, I really really really hope you are resurrected or you warg and then later become resurrected.

      The realm needs you Jon Snow!

      Maybe your watch has ended, but I feel your story has just begun… And like a caterpillar spins a cocoon and reemerges as a butterfly, I feel some kind of really cool metamorphoses is in store for you as well.

      Hope to see you come out of that cocoon soon… =)

        Quote  Reply

    40. Pip:
      If Kit Harrington gets a haircut anytime soon, then we start to worry!

      No need to worry even then- Maybe he will be resurrected from the pyre, and his hair gets burnt like Dany’s did in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    41. JCDavis: Now, are you implying that maybe you think we have all been punked by GRRM and D & D and taken all signs to mean one thing and then….PSYCHE….they didn’t mean any of it at all???

      I have an irrational fear that they cut Jon because 1) they promised (or are contractually obligated) to let GRRM get the big Jon reveal (that he is, of course, the son of two unintroduced and random characters) in his books before it is on TV, and 2) they’ve given up on GRRM getting that book out before it would become critical in the story to use this device.

      Of course, my rational mind rebuts this by noting that they would not do this for several reasons. Jon is the #1a protagonist of the story: he and Daeny combine to tell the story more than any others. The dynamic development of Jon’s character went above and beyond the call of this year’s story: why do that if it was not setting up stuff for next year? Why get Melisandre back to the Wall not even in the nick of time, but with time for a hot bath? And, of course, my rational mind points to the foreshadowing (“Jon always comes back”) and portents (the Night King staredown).

      Then the robot on my left shoulder suggests that I am just rationalizing this because I want it to be true, and notes that a perfectly simple explanation is that they did the season assuming Jon could come back next year (George was going to finish any day!) and that they realized too late that winter will come and go before Winter does.

      That’s when I crawl back inside the bottle…… 😥

        Quote  Reply

    42. Deesensfan: Question – Why would D&D bring JS back and not Catelyn (I haven’t read the books so I know I have been spoiled about that).

      Jon is (along with Daeny) the primary protagonist of the stories. Catelyn was a lesser protagonist. Jon probably will continue to be the primary protagonist in the next two stories, whereas Catelyn will not be a protagonist again.

      So, it’s not so much an apples to oranges comparison as an apple to bouncy reddish ball comparison.

      I should add (which I meant to do the first go-round, but I got distracted!) that Harrington has done an excellent job with this role. These sorts of roles must be tough: Jon is not a very demonstrative guy, as he keeps all of his emotions bottled up. He’s basically a preternaturally well-behaved person because he’s bending so far over backwards to show that a bastard can be “honorable.” I think that Harrington managed to pull it off well without it looking like he himself lacked any range. And the evolution of the character over the five seasons was impressive: Harrington did a lot to communicate that to the audience.

      Regardless of what happens in GoT, I would like to see him in some very different roles to see what kind of acting chops he has.

        Quote  Reply

    43. Am I the only one who hears Billy Crystal’s voice asking if anyone went through his pockets and looked for loose change?

        Quote  Reply

    44. Ghost, Mel, Bran, Coldhands, Varamyr6, Thoros, Qyburn, Beric, Mr. Night’s King and R’hllor may have something to say about this curtain call. I formally object as well.

      (floating down my river of denial)

        Quote  Reply

    45. I always thought Kit was perfect as Jon from day 1, but i had no expectations. I hope he does more comedy, not rom com. Looking forward to that tennis flick. I also hope he won’t completely distance himself from the show.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Luka Nieto:
      Morgoth,

      That he dies is not really in question.

      The question is whether he comes back.

      THIS!

      He pretty much has to die to get out of his Night’s Watch oath.

      I AM kind of curious how they proceed from here. If the Wall is going to fall (and it pretty much has to I would guess to open up the kingdom to the White Walkers) then I’d think it falls either while Jon is dead or if he leaves the wall after his resurrection.

      He might not have a choice but to leave if the NW somehow “revokes his membership” because he spent some time dead (sounds like the bit from Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy where HotBlack Desiato spent a year dead “for tax reasons”). Or maybe Ramsey recaptures Sansa and Jon, the Wildlings and other Northern forces march on Winterfell for that reason.

      It’s actually kinda cool not knowing exactly how things will play out.

        Quote  Reply

    47. TOIVA: I hope Jon Snow’s dead and doesn’t come back.

      Because that would make it a bold move and a challenge to still keep folks interested in the most important storyline: the White Walkers coming. It’s by creating and overcoming challenges that GoT can continue its greatness.

      And why is ‘the Wall storyline’ going without Jon Snow and Kit Harrington a challenge? Because he was so good he drew so much fans to like it and the character. Well done, Kit Harrington, and good luck in future projects (also hope you weren’t messing with us in all those interviews).

      I dont really think it would be good story telling if Jon doesn’t return. Jon is basically the center character who’s had interactions with the White Walkers. He is also the only character who was actively trying to do something about the White Walkers. If he just disappears then once again no one will be focused on their challenge, which means you are actually placing less of a focus on the important part of the story. It is good that Sam now knows about Valyrian steel and Dragon glass, but what is he actually going to do with that information? He is going South far away from the actual threat, and the people South do not believe in anything that is beyond the Wall and he is not a warrior or a person of authority who people are just going to listen to. Melisandre cares about the threat of the White Walkers but she needs a champion she cant do anything about them on her own. So basically if Jon is dead then everyone will just go on with their everyday lives and completely ignore the White Walkers until they are one day overwhelmed by them. I dont think it will make people more interested in the White Walkers, by driving the focus further away from them. There might not much left of the Night Watch this assassination, that would also make it more difficult to follow.

      Right now Jon is really the protagonist that is involved with the biggest threat to the realm. One could almost argue that the White Walkers have already been a bit too much of an absent threat. GRRM has already made a few bold moves by killing off some favorites, but all of the other protagonist where killed during the first act of the story. The story is starting to draw closer to the end now, we are almost at the end. The story basically needs to end at some point. We have been misdirected a few times during the story, Ned Stark possibly being the best example of all.
      But during all of this time GRRM has been lying out clues and building blocks into the story. At some point he has to use those clues that he has created throughout the story, and there has been a lot clues layed out when it comes to Jon. You cant just completely ignore the clues you have laid out, and just tell a completely different story, at some point it is just not good writing, because you will not be able to build-up and create a character like this with all of the growth and development if you only have two seasons left.

        Quote  Reply

    48. Sue the Fury,

      Perhaps characters shouldn’t get a curtain call unless they are dead on the official site. The Hound, suspiciously, is never declared dead or murdered or any such synonym for his final episode, whereas Jon, Stannis, and all the rest are, in their respective final episodes.

      By the way, I love the (deliberate?) ambiguity in Aemon’s biography:

      He revealed to Jon that he is one of the last remaining Targaryens, though he surrendered his ties when he joined the Watch.

      So “he” is supposed to refer to the male immediately preceding the pronoun, right? Hmm, I must have missed Aemon’s big reveal that Jon was one of the last remaining Targaryens…

        Quote  Reply

    49. Noooooo.

      I came online earlier this morning and got a big chuckle and said an “atta girl” to Sue for asserting herself in that instance of “final” discussion of season 5. Now I come on to see what’s new, and this? Jon Snow may be gone, but Kit gone permanently from the show? again … Noooo.

      I see the logic in commending the actor for bringing this character to life, so I will continue to comment on the article, under protest, however, at any attempt to make anyone here believe yet that he might actually be permanently gone. grumble grumble …. damn, now I’m going to be muttering all day again.

      For all the griping about some of the writing this season, I have to say that the writing for Jon was handled beautifully. They showed him as a man, not a boy, correctly assessing circumstances, seeing what had to be done regarding those circumstances, then actually going and doing something toward progress.

      His assessments were always correct, too, whether it was in season 4 “I know it’s a bad plan … what’s your plan?”, going to parlay with Mance. or this season, realizing that a huge number of dead wildings meant additional soldiers for the White Walker army, and showing him trying to do something about it. Cold, correct logic, beautifully written to show a man of talent, thought and honor, masterfully played, to the point that the audience is experiencing genuine grief at even the thought that he’s gone.

      In one of the interviews, Kit Harington seemed to be genuinely uncertain as to whether or not Jon Snow would be missed, or whether his demise would be taken happily. I think the world has answered that properly.

      I’m still looking for clues to his comeback: his eyes DID turn purple; Tyrion mentioned Thoros of Myr; Melisandre headed back to the wall and she’s THERE…
      and on and on. It’s a very nice Curtain Call, Cian, but it’s gotta be wrong. Please …

      BTW, where is Axey? Is he on vacation. miss the dude

        Quote  Reply

    50. And now his watch has ended!

      I owe Kit Harington my obsession for the show and the books. Right when I was not sure if I wanted to continue watching the show back in season 1, he had his scene with Maisie Williams (“first lesson, stick’em with the pointy end…”) and I fell in love with the show and the character who cared enough for the little tomboy, to give her what she wanted.

      Afterwards I read all the books between seasons 1 and 2 started scoping the Internet for forums, blogs, videos, etc., etc., etc…. So, even though I still think he’s coming back (c’mon… 5 years in the show in the same spot and with some of the same guys, and no serious farewall party???), I still feel a bit like an orphan. I’ll miss Jon dearly.

      I am surprised that he has nothing on his schedule. A while ago I read he had gotten a part in a movie by a young “brilliant” Canadian director (whose name of course I can’t remember) along with Jessica Chastain…

      I hope he has a good career. His work on GoT has positioned him for more “heroic” kind of roles, but I hope he tries more diverse and interesting stuff.

      I still hope Testament of Youth reaches Latin America…

        Quote  Reply

    51. Hodor’s Bastard:
      Ghost, Mel, Bran, Coldhands, Varamyr6, Thoros, Qyburn, Beric, Mr. Night’s King and R’hllor may have something to say about this curtain call. I formally object as well.

      (floating down my river of denial)

      And Ser Pounce.

      Meow.

        Quote  Reply

    52. So “he” is supposed to refer to the male immediately preceding the pronoun, right?Hmm, I must have missed Aemon’s big reveal that Jon was one of the last remaining Targaryens…

      Aemon revealed to Jon that he (Aemon) was one of the last remaining Targaryeans back in season 1 (when Jon was planning to leave to aid Robb).

      I don’t think Aemon knew about Jon. People commented that this season it was funny that Aemon told Sam about Dany, the only other Targ, being so far away, and just then Jon came to talk to him. That in the same episode or the next one where Littlefinger smirked at Sansa’s story about her aunt Lyana and Rhaegar, and when Stannis and Mel commented about Jon being special.

        Quote  Reply

    53. Thronetender,

      His eyes definitely got lighter. I thought more of a golden brown than purple, but I don’t know. They lingered long enough to show it, and while I had assumed it was just perhaps the light from the torches nearby, people sure are speculating. Some say it’s to show his pupils change when he dies….that doesn’t make sense to me as I think they would then get darker, not lighter. It probably IS the damn firelight and I’m pondering nothing. 😉

      Also – honestly, I’ve never understood the deal with Kit’s hair. Why do they care? Lena and Natalie and Emilia and others (including men – Rory McCann) wear wigs constantly. Why couldn’t Kit? That always puzzled me. 😛

        Quote  Reply

    54. Thronetender:

      I’m still looking for clues to his comeback:his eyes DID turn purple;

      Ughh,really?I’m pretty sure purple eyes are not established for Targaryens on the show.It would be pointless.

        Quote  Reply

    55. Pigeon:
      Thronetender,

      Also – honestly, I’ve never understood the deal with Kit’s hair. Why do they care? Lena and Natalie and Emilia and others (including men – Rory McCann) wear wigs constantly. Why couldn’t Kit? That always puzzled me.

      Thank you, Pigeon, because that should be the obvious answer to anyone moaning if they see his hair short. This show loooves wigs. Some of the wigs they had Lena and Sansa wear, especially at the beginning of the series, had enough hair for three people. It would be no big feat to arrange a wig and a little paste-on fuzz for Kit until his grew in again. Then, they could sell the wig at a charity auction for big money.

      About the purple eyes: I have been online searching for any stories about GoT, to aid my seasonal GoT withdrawal, and came across that one. Had to rerun the episode and stare inches away from the TV, literally, and I think his right eye was purple-ish and the left eye more golden brown. Considering how dark his natural eyes are, this seemed to be a sign of something promising, which caused a happy-dance.

        Quote  Reply

    56. Dragon Tender: “In every generation there is a chosen one. SheHe alone will stand against the vampires white walkers the demons and the forces of darkness. She Sam is the slayer.”

      Works better with Jon. Chosen one who lives with only one parent and has prophetic dreams (in the books, anyway) fights the undead and is beholden to a Council of Watchers that lead an ancient organization charged with defending humanity against the forces of darkness but doesn’t always listen very well to those in charge, gets off to a bit of a bumpy start in a new place of education before ultimately bringing most people around in time to lead them all in defense against a massive overwhelming threat and then finally, after facing off against the most powerful supernatural villain yet, dies at the end of season five.

      (Presumably before being brought back to life by a red-headed witch)

        Quote  Reply

    57. Dolorous Methuselah: I AM kind of curious how they proceed from here. If the Wall is going to fall (and it pretty much has to I would guess to open up the kingdom to the White Walkers) then I’d think it falls either while Jon is dead or if he leaves the wall after his resurrection.

      He might not have a choice but to leave if the NW somehow “revokes his membership” because he spent some time dead (sounds like the bit from Hitchiker’s Guide to the Galaxy where HotBlack Desiato spent a year dead “for tax reasons”). Or maybe Ramsey recaptures Sansa and Jon, the Wildlings and other Northern forces march on Winterfell for that reason.

      I thinkk there has to be some real payoff for Jon’s death. Otherwise why would you do it? The Wall almost has to fall now, it might be because of the Wildlings. Or Wall’s magic might fail to work, because the Watch isn’t standing true anymore.

      I think they would need to resurrect him very quickly. And I think it is possible that Jon perhaps takes on a bit of Stannis’s arc, or what Stannis arc in books was suppose to be. He will realize that he cant fight the Walkers alone, and if he really wants to be able to fight the Walkers Walkers the best way to do so would be to unite the North again. I think he might go and fight the Boltons for Winterfell next season.

      Deesensfan: Question – Why would D&D bring JS back and not Catelyn (I haven’t read the books so I know I have been spoiled about that).

      They obviously did not bring Catelyn or Lady Stoneheart back because it would have cheapen death too much. It is very doubtful that Lady Stoneheart would have an effect on the end of the story. She just seems to be more like a side story, in the books she is not even a POV character anymore. She is interesting in some ways, or starts out interesting when she kills a Frey, and you are happy to see the Starks getting some minor revenge. But as her story goes on you realize that she is not Catelyn, she is there out of pure hatred and vengeance, which can have bad consequences because she has no judgement and makes no discernment. It is not a positive character, and it is doubtful that she has any importance to the end of the story.

      It is better that if they are going to use resurrection on someone that they would use it for someone like Jon, who is very likely important to the end of the story.

      This is not show related, but I just hope that Jon doesn’t lose his POV chapters in the books if he is resurrected, that would be a shame especially if he discovers who his real parent are, I would like to see the reaction from his own POV.

        Quote  Reply

    58. John M W:
      Farewell Kit. The Night’s Watch is screwed without you.

      Yep, they are! The stupid guys killed the only one who had good relations with the wildlings on their backs, and who knew something about the WW in front of them… They’re certainly screwed.

      I hope we get some of Dolorous Edd’s thoughts on the matter when he realizes what happened to Jon!

        Quote  Reply

    59. Yeah…whatever….

      Anyways in real and not imagined news, NBC has cancelled “Hannibal”…so we need, nay we have to get Madds Mikkelsen on “Game Of Thrones” as Euron “One-Eye” Greyjoy…

      So let’s start terrorising HBO and D&D…LOL!

        Quote  Reply

    60. Sean C.: Nobody associated with the show ever claimed the Hound was dead.Indeed, the writers have pointedly refused to say.

      Yes, and hasn’t Rory been known to crawl under tables if he asked about his character’s death? LOL. I just love him!!!!

        Quote  Reply

    61. And now Jon Snow is gone

      That version of him anyway. We’ll get the new and improved, perhaps less sulky version in no time.

        Quote  Reply

    62. Thronetender,

      Hmmmm. When did Sansa wear a wig? Other than those clunky hairpiece braids on the top of her head in early seasons, I don’t recall Sansa in a wig. She dyed her blonde hair to red for the part.

        Quote  Reply

    63. loco73,

      LOVE IT, Thanks Loco.

      Valhalla Rising comes on the TV all the damn time for some odd reason, so, yes. I AM READY for MADS.

      Who do we need to contact? Didn’t fan noise help get Gwendoline her part.

        Quote  Reply

    64. Darkstar:
      Thronetender,

      Hmmmm. When did Sansa wear a wig? Other than those clunky hairpiece braids on the top of her head in early seasons, I don’t recall Sansa in a wig. She dyed her blonde hair to red for the part.

      I thought those braids were part of a wig, especially in the scene of Ned’s beheading. Whether they were a wig or hairpiece, the point was that the costume dept of GoT isn’t shy about using extra hair, so a wig and beard for Jon/Kit would be no big deal.

        Quote  Reply

    65. Here is a good look at his eyes changing color…

      Can someone who knows how to do this shit do a slow motion video capture of right when Bran wargs?

      Just wondering if it will match up, maybe Jon Snow is about to warg and this is the same affect used on Bran’s eyes before they go pale white???

      Also, kind of looks like they turn to wolf’s eyes for a second.

      Well regardless, there you go, there is something supernatural happening there. When someone dies, their eyes don’t change color like that. No doubt this was put in there on purpose, a CGI affect, to hint that this is GoT and crazy shit can happen.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Arthur,

      I don’t even remember it being that obvious when I watched it the first time.. Maybe I was too distraught.

      Damn I wonder if it was meant to be that way or if it was a lighting thing..

        Quote  Reply

    67. I enjoy Kit’s performance as Jon Snow and have grown quite attached to the character – more so in the show than while reading the books. I believe we haven’t seen the last of him!

      My theory… they’ve already filmed Kit’s few scenes for season 6 so that his return won’t be revealed by reports on him on set later this year. (Which would also mean he’s not lying in those interviews where he says he’s not returning next year.) Maybe that is a contributing factor as to why HBO renewed GoT for both seasons 5 and 6 at the same time, when they normally only renew one season at a time?

      I know that the filming schedule is extremely tight, so fitting in season 6 scenes during season 5 filming would have been difficult… but if it’s just a few, it’s not impossible.

      The biggest issue with fully believing my own theory is this: what would Jon’s storyline in season 6 entail that would only require a couple of scenes? With the Night’s Watch always burning their dead, I don’t think they could go an entire season with Jon’s fate being ambiguous (the only possibility I see for them to save his resurrection until episode 9 or 10 or even the start of season 7 is if someone

      proposes freezing Jon’s body to study wights like Jon does in one of the books

      , giving Mel time to learn how to do the resurrection). If he’s brought back right away, he would surely get a significant storyline and thus need more than a few scenes, throwing my theory out the window. I feel so… “you know nothing”… since we’re at the end of Jon’s book material!

      But whatever happens, I just hope to find out by either reading it in Winds of Winter or by seeing it in the show – not from reading about it in some filming scoop article. To that end, I’ll probably be staying away from this website once filming starts.

      (I normally check the site every day – started at that other site, followed everyone over here – but rarely post.)

        Quote  Reply

    68. Deesensfan,

      I don’t even remember it being that obvious when I watched it the first time.. Maybe I was too distraught.

      Damn I wonder if it was meant to be that way or if it was a lighting thing..

      There is no way eyes naturally change color that drastically and pupils get that large, this was a CGI affect, put in there for a reason…

      To show something supernatural was in the process of happening…

        Quote  Reply

    69. Deesensfan,

      I hope you’re right.. But then how would that wait to season 7? Or you don’t think it will

      If I had to guess, GoT season 6 picks up right there… Jon’s eyes, then scene of Ghost’s eyes matching and Ghost suddenly acting like he has been possessed or whatever…

      I have no idea what GRRM plans to do, I am guessing Ghost (Jon warging him) takes off and somehow gets connected with Bran. Probably some kind of adventure and all kinds of crazy WW/CotF stuff revealed…

      But eventually I think Jon Snow gets a human body back (Hopefully Kit still).

      I just hope GRRM being the sicko that he is (with sad stuff) doesn’t make it so Ghost has to be sacrificed to force Jon back into a human body…

        Quote  Reply

    70. Pigeon: wear wigs constantly. Why couldn’t Kit? That always puzzled me.

      He hates wigs. He wore one in the pilot(?). He grew his hair out so he wouldn’t have to wear one.

        Quote  Reply

    71. Arthur,

      I don’t think there’s any way Jon wargs into Ghost. HBO is not turning the main character of their biggest show into a dog. (Also, the show has never once hinted that Jon can warg. To do so now would be a violation of their own canon).

      Here’s an article from vanity Fair addressing Kit’s (likely) return. Interesting about the “dead is dead” comment from Weiss. Hadn’t thought of that. http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/jon-snow-alive-game-of-thrones-comic-con

        Quote  Reply

    72. I don’t believe it for a minute. 🙂 And I will say this about Kit: he really grew on me in s05. His fight scenes were some of the best in the series. Hopefully we’ll see more of that when he’s

      battle rezzed as a White Walker… jk. I still think Melly will actually save the day.

      Anyhoo, cheers to Kit!

      http://postimg.org/image/bhh2emjnb/

        Quote  Reply

    73. His eyes and face slightly changed in color after he drew his last breath. The life literally left his eyes and face in that moment, and he died.

      But will he stay dead? That’s the million dollar question.

        Quote  Reply

    74. Boudica: I thinkk there has to be some real payoff for Jon’s death. Otherwise why would you do it? The Wall almost has to fall now, it might be because of the Wildlings. Or Wall’s magic might fail to work, because the Watch isn’t standing true anymore.

      I think they would need to resurrect him very quickly. And I think it is possible that Jon perhaps takes on a bit of Stannis’s arc, or what Stannis arc in books was suppose to be. He will realize that he cant fight the Walkers alone, and if he really wants to be able to fight the Walkers Walkers the best way to do so would be to unite the North again. I think he might go and fight the Boltons for Winterfell next season.

      Boudica,

      Agreed all the way around. I think it is pretty imperative for the story that the Wall falls. I want to see the snow in Kings Landing gods dammit. 🙂

      In addition to the ways you mention, I thing it might be:

      The Horn of Joramond

      I am still trying to puzzle out in my own mind about Jon taking Winterfell from the Boltons. On the one hand it seems like that is where the story is heading. On the other hand, it would seem to be a waste of manpower, lives and equipment to fight against other “humans” instead of getting ready for the Others.

        Quote  Reply

    75. Ravyn,

      Maybe they will tie Bran’s reintroduction into the show in a really dramatic way, helping Jon warg into Ghost…

      I know the show hasn’t shown the TV viewer that any other Starks have that warging ability like the books do, but D&D can still make it work and like I said it will make people both cheer for Jon’s survival AND Bran’s return.

        Quote  Reply

    76. I’d like to share a theory I’ve started to see appear.

      There’s a lot of posts about the sharp increase in potential flashbacks coming for season 6 (Young Robert & Ned – Tower of joy etc.).

      This is the theory.

      Melisandre is obviously at the wall, of all places she could have gone, she went to the wall. It’s thought that season 6 will indeed not include Kit Harrington in any way, however, it will go back to the wall, where Melisandre in her room will gaze into the fires and thus bring us these flashbacks. Melisandre (and MAYBE Bran) will be the tool used by D&D to tell us what really happened with Jon’s birth. Over the season it will progress, until finally in episode 10 Melisandre will add 2 and 2 together, ending with her with a shocked look on her face.

      Personally, I love the idea. And also, I feel this should be mentioned:

      Jon Snow is dead. That’s it. He’s not coming back.

      Azor Ahai OR Jon Targaryen on the other hand is NOT dead. It’s easy to say that he’s dead because in their minds, Jon Snow ≠ Jon Targaryen/Azor Ahai.

      Also with respect to the celebrations & cake of Kit’s finally scene, look at it from two perspectives:

      1) Make 1000’s of people sign a waver releasing their right to discuss Kit’s continuance on the show. This waver would have to last over a year, or even longer. Evaluate yourself how much risk this entails. The longer the time a secret is held, the harder it is to shut up.

      2) Tell the world Jon Snow is dead. When S7 comes, bring him back, make 100+ people sign the waiver 3-4 months from release.

      What’s the more practical.

        Quote  Reply

    77. Dolorous Methuselah: On the other hand, it would seem to be a waste of manpower, lives and equipment to fight against other “humans” instead of getting ready for the Others.

      Winter is coming, so why not? They need a stronghold anyway.

        Quote  Reply

    78. OK, food for thought. I know we are supposed to be praising Kit’s hair and acting ability here (both are great), but let’s “pretend” for a moment that he really does not need to worry about finding a new job until Summer 2017.

      A common idea is that Jon Snow either is the “promised” one or that he is part of a triumvirate that makes up the promised one (with Daeny and Tyrion/Aegon/Bran/Ramsay/whomever). The common idea is that the Promised One(s) would lead the fight against the White Walkers, or perhaps against the White Walkers and R’hllor.

      What if we’ve been looking at this wrong. What if the “Promised one” is going to be one to abet each of three major sides in this war? Both book and show (particularly leaked show) suggest that the Red Church is going to throw it’s lot in with Daeny. However, it should be very clear by now that whatever R’hllor is, it’s not any “better” than the White Walkers.

      So, what if one promised one is going to be “with” R’hllor, one with the Others, and one with yet a third side (the Children & Tree Gods, or perhaps just Homo sapiens mundanus). What if the real purpose of the “Promised One” is to act as an “inside agent” that brings them down?

      Could Jon’s death be a set up for getting him in with the White Walkers?

      This is just shooting off of the cuff: something about the way that this went down on TV has altered the way I’m thinking about things happening in the books. However, I cannot help but to think that, even after all this time, we’ve been overlooking some possible answers to these riddles. And those answers are going to affect whether we see Kit again, and in what capacity.

        Quote  Reply

    79. Okay, I’ll play along… Kit Harington will be missed. Might seem like a backhanded compliment but he deserves to win the “Most Improved Cast Member” award. Not to say he started out badly, he was good. But the dude has matured so much. He’s delivered some very subtle stuff last couple of seasons.

      And beyond the nuance he can absolutely nail action scenes. Reminds me of Harrison Ford in the Indiana Jones series. Ford didn’t like using the term “stunts” he preferred to call it “physical acting”. Kit excels at getting the shit kicked out of him. And he looks believable kicking ass in return. Not everyone can do this. He’s turned into a legitimate badass and one tough “bastard” 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    80. Arthur,

      Maybe they will tie Bran’s reintroduction into the show in a really dramatic way, helping Jon warg into Ghost…

      I know the show hasn’t shown the TV viewer that any other Starks have that warging ability like the books do, but D&D can still make it work and like I said it will make people both cheer for Jon’s survival AND Bran’s return.

      The more I think about it the more this makes sense.

      Bran basically becomes a nature god with eyes and ears everywhere, now having that power, and Jon Snow being in a place (at the wall) where Bran has power, do you really think he is going to sit there and let his brother die?

        Quote  Reply

    81. Arthur: I know the show hasn’t shown the TV viewer that any other Starks have that warging ability like the books do, but D&D can still make it work and like I said it will make people both cheer for Jon’s survival AND Bran’s return.

      But even in the books, Jon’s warging skills are only rudimentary. He has wolf dreams, and that is about it. He cannot even do what Arya is able to do. Jon simply never tries. I always found that curious: he certainly was around Wildling wargs often enough. Of course, he didn’t exactly get along with any of them, so perhaps that’s why he never attempted to develop those skills.

      (On that note,

      I expect that part of the purpose of Blind Beth will be to get Arya to re-establish her link with Nymeria: and that this will be important by the end of the season. B&W never introduce things unless it is going to have a payoff that season, but the fact that the are doing the Blind Beth bit now suggests to me that this is coming up soon.)

        Quote  Reply

    82. Arthur,

      I seriously doubt that

      Bran has any ability to affect whether Jon dies. Given what we know in the books, what little influence Bran can exert can be done only in proximity to a Weirwood tree: and Jon is not close to one. So, yes, Bran will “let” Jon die for the same reason that anyone “lets” things over which they have zero control happen.

        Quote  Reply

    83. Cian, you killed me with those strike-throughs!

      I have a friend who’s… smitten with Kit Harington. It took me a few seasons, but after Kit’s fantastic performances in Season 4 and Season 5, I. get. it. So, apparently for me it’s not just about the looks… O/T: Same thing happened to me with Tom Hiddleston, with whom many of my girlfriends were falling over after Avengers. Diiidn’t get it for a while, but after watching him act in several movies, suddenly it hit me and heeeeey, Tom.

      Something about that white snow on his dark hair that got me, too…

      ANYYYYWAYSSSS, I am a bigger Kit fan now after this season. Can’t wait for 7 Days in Hell and for his return next season(?).

        Quote  Reply

    84. Rygritte: Winter is coming, so why not? They need a stronghold anyway.

      Good points.

      Yes. I guess they can’t just be wandering around in the open fighting the White Walkers in the elements (Stannis’ arc showed that lack of a fortified base could have some pretty bad consequences).

      Plus, I think Winterfell in particular is not just any stronghold. It does have some magic to it of one sort or another.

        Quote  Reply

    85. Wimsey:

      I expect that part of the purpose of Blind Beth will be to get Arya to re-establish her link with Nymeria: and that this will be important by the end of the season.
      Riverlands! What what!

        Quote  Reply

    86. Wimsey:
      Arthur,

      I seriously doubt that

      Of course Bran can help. All he has to do is

      Warg into a crow and yell “corn” over and over.

      Should do the trick, no problem.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Underrated actor. People still rag on him because they didn’t like his faces in season 1. But refusing to admit he has improved with each season and now borders on Emmy recognition status would be lying. I definitely would say of all the males for Supporting Actor Emmy in season 5 Kit Harington deserves to be right up there for consideration. It was his finest season. Each season is better than the last for his acting and each movie he does is better than the last. That’s a good sign or Kit Harington.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Wimsey:
      OK, food for thought.I know we are supposed to be praising Kit’s hair and acting ability here (both are great), but let’s “pretend” for a moment that he really does not need to worry about finding a new job until Summer 2017.

      A common idea is that Jon Snow either is the “promised” one or that he is part of a triumvirate that makes up the promised one (with Daeny and Tyrion/Aegon/Bran/Ramsay/whomever).The common idea is that the Promised One(s) would lead the fight against the White Walkers, or perhaps against the White Walkers and R’hllor.

      What if we’ve been looking at this wrong.What if the “Promised one” is going to be one to abet each of three major sides in this war?Both book and show (particularly leaked show) suggest that the Red Church is going to throw it’s lot in with Daeny.However, it should be very clear by now that whatever R’hllor is, it’s not any “better” than the White Walkers.

      So, what if one promised one is going to be “with” R’hllor, one with the Others, and one with yet a third side (the Children & Tree Gods, or perhaps just Homo sapiens mundanus).What if the real purpose of the “Promised One” is to act as an “inside agent” that brings them down?

      Could Jon’s death be a set up for getting him in with the White Walkers?

      This is just shooting off of the cuff: something about the way that this went down on TV has altered the way I’m thinking about things happening in the books.However, I cannot help but to think that, even after all this time, we’ve been overlooking some possible answers to these riddles.And those answers are going to affect whether we see Kit again, and in what capacity.

      This.

      Or something similar.
      It’s not going to be a simple ‘good vs evil’ battle.

      Isn’t Jon the song of ice and fire anyway? Or did I imagine that?

      James Purefoy gets my vote for Euron Greyjoy.

        Quote  Reply

    89. There were posts earlier regarding whether or not Jon’s eyes turned purple at the end and someone said something to the effect that purple eyes were not a noted Targaryen trait, so what would be the difference. I had to see what was what.

      According to the pages of “A Wiki of Ice and Fire” the purple eye debate goes down as follows:

      “House Targaryen

      Typical Targaryen features are silvery-gold or platinum hair and striking lilac or indigo or violet eyes and is a famous proclamation of their heritage.

      It can end up being a tell-tale sign if a member of the family is trying to be incognito. Aegon V Targaryen, disguised as Egg, shaved his head so that his silver-gold hair would not be recognised. Egg had the purple eyes of old Valyria, and the hair that shone like beaten gold and strands of silver woven together. Dunk thinks to himself that Egg had as well wear a three-headed dragon as a brooch as let that hair grow out.

      The practice of incest has helped to preserve their rare colouring. Rhaegar’s eyes were dark indigo[1], Viserys’s eyes were lilac[1], their sister Daenerys’s eyes are violet. ”

      So it would appear that purple eyes are indeed a Targaryen trait.

      Which will mean zip if we were punked and Jon doesn’t come back in any way.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Arthur:
      Well regardless, there you go, there is something supernatural happening there. When someone dies, their eyes don’t change color like that. No doubt this was put in there on purpose, a CGI affect, to hint that this is GoT and crazy shit can happen.

      Nothing supernatural to see here, folks. Move along. Move along. Jon’s eye color doesn’t change but rather is better revealed as the camera moves in, changing angles, and bringing his irises out of shadow and into bright light. Much ado about nothing.

        Quote  Reply

    91. Wimsey:
      So, what if one promised one is going to be “with” R’hllor, one with the Others, and one with yet a third side (the Children & Tree Gods, or perhaps just Homo sapiens mundanus).What if the real purpose of the “Promised One” is to act as an “inside agent” that brings them down?

      Could Jon’s death be a set up for getting him in with the White Walkers?

      What if HS = HR? Both theories are plausible and approximately equal in their likelihood, I fear.

        Quote  Reply

    92. Ravyn,

      Thanks for posting that link! Interesting choice of words indeed. I never realised “Dead is dead” was from the very first chapter of A Game of Thrones… 🙂

      As far as Kit’s latest project is concerned, the Canadian director in question is Xavier Dolan, and the film is called “The Death and Life of John F. Donovan.” Kit will be playing a movie star (!) whose relationship with a child actor is exposed and made suspect by Chastain’s character. Kathy Bates and Susan Sarandon will also star, I believe. I am really looking forward to this.

        Quote  Reply

    93. Thronetender,

      he meant in the show it isn’t a noted trait so why show that in the show when Daenerys, who has them in the book, doesn’t have them in the show. wouldn’t make sense

        Quote  Reply

    94. King of the Ashes:
      Thronetender,

      he meant in the show it isn’t a noted trait so why show that in the show when Daenerys, who has them in the book, doesn’t have them in the show. wouldn’t make sense

      As a nod to the both the rabid book readers and the rabid unsullied who are looking for any inkling of any clue that might assure that Jon isn’t gone forever?

      It’s over a week now, and I should be getting over this and moving on to a jaunty “whatever” attitude. But all of the build-up of Jon as a worthy person, worthy warrior and good friend really worked on me. I just don’t want Kit to be gone from the show. Though the logical side of my head is telling me to get over it, it’s just a show, the other side of my head is not so willing yet to let go. …. Somehow, I don’t think I’m alone here in those feelings.

        Quote  Reply

    95. Thronetender,

      In the books sure, but I meant in the show. Dany (Emilia Clarke) and Viserys (Harry Lloyd) were supposed to have the purple contact lenses in S01, but that idea was quickly rejected by D&D. I heard stories about … how it was uncomfortable for the actors,they found them too distracting or even allergic reaction to it. If Dany have green eyes in the show, why Jon should have purple eyes? It doesn’t make sense.

        Quote  Reply

    96. Thronetender,

      you mistake me, i don’t believe that Jon is gone for good, i just don’t agree with the eye thing. Jon will be back… but to put emphasis on the eye color now when it was never established in the show ….. i don’t buy it

        Quote  Reply

    97. King of the Ashes:
      Thronetender,

      you mistake me, i don’t believe that Jon is gone for good, i just don’t agree with the eye thing. Jon will be back… but to put emphasis on the eye color now when it was never established in the show ….. i don’t buy it

      Yeah, I realize there was nothing in the show prior to this to support any kind of purple eye theory, but I read Josh Wigler’s article in “MTV NEWS” and it got me all excited. Like I said, grasping at straws can be hard work. I promise I won’t bring this up anymore after this? Here’s an excerpt from his article You Definitely Missed This Clue To Jon Snow’s Return From The Dead

      “IS THIS REAL LIFE? Did Jon Snow’s eyes change from Kit’s normal dark brown to a lighter hue — an icy green, as I’m seeing it? Am I just seeing things, or is there something here?

      Let’s roll with “something here,” for the sake of argument. What would the eye color change even mean? Insert shrug emoticon here. It could mean a whole lot (Jon’s R+L colors and destiny finally emerging, Jon actually warging into Ghost, Jon turning into some White Walker hybrid something-or-other, what have you), or it could mean a whole lot of nothing. Could just be a trick of the light, much like Melisandre’s prophetic powers appear to be.

      It also could be nothing, and “Game of Thrones” has simply driven some of us (see: me) insane.

      The pics don’t do the argument as much justice as the experience of watching it five inches in front of your screen, witnessing the transformation of Jon’s eyes before your very eyes. Go and check it out for yourself, and tell me I’m crazy — or go crazy with me. It’s a long off-season, folks. Let’s have fun with it. Someone certainly has to.”

      Yeah, fun. Night everyone. Have a good rest of the week.

        Quote  Reply

    98. I can swear I saw Kit winking on the last pic.

      I like the last sentence, as a character it is probably true that Jon Snow Lord of the Night’s Watch died.
      Jon Snow the Bastard of Winterfell though… We may see him around again. And add a few titles, titles… to his name.

        Quote  Reply

    99. JonSnow25:
      Robith,

      And what if there isn’t going to be a Cleganebowl,what if it’s just some random guy the Faith picks for the trial and they don’t meet until the last book or season in the show case ? Because if Cersei loses the trial she is pretty much fucked and i don’t think she will die until much later .

      CONFIRMED MOTHERFUCKER

        Quote  Reply

    100. Arthur:
      Here is a good look at his eyes changing color…

      Can someone who knows how to do this shit do a slow motion video capture of right when Bran wargs?

      Just wondering if it will match up, maybe Jon Snow is about to warg and this is the same affect used on Bran’s eyes before they go pale white???

      Also, kind of looks like they turn to wolf’s eyes for a second.

      Well regardless, there you go, there is something supernatural happening there.When someone dies, their eyes don’t change color like that.No doubt this was put in there on purpose, a CGI affect, to hint that this is GoT and crazy shit can happen.

      When Bran wargs his eyeballs flip backwards … this is NOT warging nor it is an intentional manipulation else they would have made it more obvious.

        Quote  Reply

    101. My Jon theory has changed over the past few years but I think I’m currently focused on him definitely being dead… and that his rebirth, in whatever way it happens, will also give him some kind of awareness about his lineage he didn’t have before. So, when he comes back to life, he will know exactly who he is and his importance to the war.

      So, he will no longer be Jon Snow. He will be wearing Jon Snow’s body… have Jon Snow’s memories… but be whoever, or whatever, he is will lack Jon’s empathy. He will be all business.

        Quote  Reply

    102. GameofHype:
      John M W,

      And you’re trying to bait.

      Hardly. I’m just legitimately taken aback by all the denial on display. Nobody involved with the production is being coy about this. Jon is dead. Kit isn’t coming back next year. They’ve stated this point blank.

      Yet almost nobody in the fandom seems willing to accept this. You’d think they were watching a different series.

        Quote  Reply

    103. John M W: Hardly. I’m just legitimately taken aback by all the denial on display. Nobody involved with the production is being coy about this. Jon is dead. Kit isn’t coming back next year. They’ve stated this point blank.

      Yet almost nobody in the fandom seems willing to accept this. You’d think they were watching a different series.

      You know nothing, Jon Mow

        Quote  Reply

    104. Ginevra,

      Ah, but there is a huge difference here! This is pure speculation based only on the theory of storywriting to which GRRM adheres. Moreover (and as I stressed), it is just “shooting off of the cuffs.” However, I do think that we need to expand the range of end games that we are considering.

        Quote  Reply

    105. Brock Landers,

      I think that the change was just to immitate the “glassiness” of dead eyes. If you ever have been with someone when he/she dies, then you will have noticed that his/her eyes look “wrong.” I assumed they were trying to imitate that.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Wimsey: However, it should be very clear by now that whatever R’hllor is, it’s not any “better” than the White Walkers.

      How is this clear?

      White Walkers: Killing everyone and turning them into zombies, which kill more people in order to make more zombies, until everyone is dead and an eternal winter of darkness falls

      R’llhor: Occasionally but not always rewards human sacrifice with aid against one’s human enemies or the Walkers/Others. Accepts traitors, cannibals, murderers. Appears to punish the sacrifice the sacrifice of innocents (in the books, Guncer Sunglass, sacrificed without Stannis’s consent while he was losing at Blackwater, in the show, Shireen and Stannis’s subsequent fall).

      Now, the trope would be that they are some sort of ice-fire ying-yang looking at it from the outside-the-book level, but that is first not something you can trust GRRM to follow, and is certainly not something visible in-universe, where R’hllor seems infinitely preferable to the zombie apocalypse. I’ll be pretty disappointed if GRRM follows the obvious path as you think he will, but we will see.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Sean C.: Nobody associated with the show ever claimed the Hound was dead.Indeed, the writers have pointedly refused to say.

      If the writers don’t bring back McCann and Sandor, I will feel extremely cheated out of not getting a curtain call. They are such a great ode to not only the character, but the actor.

        Quote  Reply

    108. Ginevra: Nothing supernatural to see here, folks. Move along. Move along. Jon’s eye color doesn’t change but rather is better revealed as the camera moves in, changing angles, and bringing his irises out of shadow and into bright light. Much ado about nothing.

      The weird thing is not the color, it is how the pupils keep expanding despite the light growing brighter. Specifically, the light gets brighter around 11 seconds in, and his pupils expanded between eighteen seconds and the final frame. I figured out how to get my own pupils to look like that (with the same little light reflected), and it involved a room with no lights or windows, and a single light on in another room 20+ feet away that I could see via reflection and a crack in the door. It was way too dark for filming and I could barely see my own pupils, and could not determine my eye color. If that is real, it is really odd. His pupils should be shrinking if anything as the light grew, not expanding to near-maximum dilation.

        Quote  Reply

    109. it didn’t take him long to find another successful project, Testament of Youth that is currently playing has been getting rave reviews, particularly Kit’s work.

      Sucks that the only place in NC that will show it is 2 hours away, will have to wait for digital.

        Quote  Reply

    110. Kit Harington has just been announced to replace Robert Pattinson in Brimstone. It is already starting to film, apparently.

      My guess is that Kit will HARDLY be in the season:-

      Episode 1 – the funeral scene or dragging the body away.

      Episode 10 – resurrection.

      Season 7 – many months filming.

      He will be done by the end of July, cut his hair, film Brimstone and then the Xavier Dolan film, by that time the hair will have regrown enough to restart filming in August next year. Or maybe he will get Daenerys ‘bed hair’ wig.

        Quote  Reply

    111. «He rose and dressed in darkness, as Mormont’s raven muttered across the room. “Corn,” the bird said, and, “King,” and, “Snow, Jon Snow, Jon Snow.” That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall.»

      King! King! King!!!

        Quote  Reply

    112. Wimsey,

      I know, I know. I pro’ly shouldn’t have teased you so about your least favorite theory, but it seemed quite unlike you to speculate brazenly rather than making a series of well-reasoned and well-argued deductions based on the facts you hold so dear.

        Quote  Reply

    113. Dolorous Methuselah: I am still trying to puzzle out in my own mind about Jon taking Winterfell from the Boltons. On the one hand it seems like that is where the story is heading. On the other hand, it would seem to be a waste of manpower, lives and equipment to fight against other “humans” instead of getting ready for the Others.

      Yes that is true Jon would not want to waste manpower, but perhaps he knows a secret way into Winterfell? There is definitely some secret passages through the crypts, and Measter Luwin also mentioned something about this to Theon when Ramsay came to attack him. But yes that would very likely be to easy for GoT, except if they didn’t have the resources for a big battle. 🙂

      Wimsey: OK, food for thought. I know we are supposed to be praising Kit’s hair and acting ability here (both are great), but let’s “pretend” for a moment that he really does not need to worry about finding a new job until Summer 2017.

      A common idea is that Jon Snow either is the “promised” one or that he is part of a triumvirate that makes up the promised one (with Daeny and Tyrion/Aegon/Bran/Ramsay/whomever). The common idea is that the Promised One(s) would lead the fight against the White Walkers, or perhaps against the White Walkers and R’hllor.

      What if we’ve been looking at this wrong. What if the “Promised one” is going to be one to abet each of three major sides in this war? Both book and show (particularly leaked show) suggest that the Red Church is going to throw it’s lot in with Daeny. However, it should be very clear by now that whatever R’hllor is, it’s not any “better” than the White Walkers.

      So, what if one promised one is going to be “with” R’hllor, one with the Others, and one with yet a third side (the Children & Tree Gods, or perhaps just Homo sapiens mundanus). What if the real purpose of the “Promised One” is to act as an “inside agent” that brings them down?

      Could Jon’s death be a set up for getting him in with the White Walkers?

      You could really be on to something here!

      But I would propose a champion for each element, fire, ice, water and earth.

      Ice and could be the same thing water, but at the same time we do have the Iron Islanders with the Drowned God, so there is something about water. The White Walkers obviously use Ice magic. Fire is the Red God and dragons, while earth refers to the Children of the Forest. They could really all be opposing factors.

      Melisandre’s chapter in the book is quite interesting, because she sees Bloodraven as the enemy with 1001 eyes, and Bran. While the Red God is all about light and shadows, Bloodraves tells Bran that he should always embrace the darkness, and that he is save in the dark where no one can see him. I have wondered if Bran and Jon will actually at some time stand against each other. But perhaps Jon has a different role, he is ice and fire, perhaps he needs to balance or help negotiate these elements.

      Who knows, I think there might be something to these elements, there is still a lot we dont understand.

      Thronetender: There were posts earlier regarding whether or not Jon’s eyes turned purple at the end and someone said something to the effect that purple eyes were not a noted Targaryen trait, so what would be the difference. I had to see what was what.

      According to the pages of “A Wiki of Ice and Fire” the purple eye debate goes down as follows:

      “House Targaryen

      Typical Targaryen features are silvery-gold or platinum hair and striking lilac or indigo or violet eyes and is a famous proclamation of their heritage.

      It can end up being a tell-tale sign if a member of the family is trying to be incognito. Aegon V Targaryen, disguised as Egg, shaved his head so that his silver-gold hair would not be recognised. Egg had the purple eyes of old Valyria, and the hair that shone like beaten gold and strands of silver woven together. Dunk thinks to himself that Egg had as well wear a three-headed dragon as a brooch as let that hair grow out.

      The practice of incest has helped to preserve their rare colouring. Rhaegar’s eyes were dark indigo[1], Viserys’s eyes were lilac[1], their sister Daenerys’s eyes are violet. ”

      So it would appear that purple eyes are indeed a Targaryen trait.

      Which will mean zip if we were punked and Jon doesn’t come back in any way.

      I dont think there is anything to Jon’s eyes at the end of the episode, I think they are just trying to show how the life drains out of him. It is perhaps his pupils dilating. I think if the show wanted people to see something they would not make it so subtle.

      But I do think there is really something to this in the books. Jon eyes are described as being such a dark grey that it mostly looks black. The grey eyes is a Stark trade of course.

      I do actually think Jon might have Rheagar eyes in the books, Rheagar’s eyes are described as being such a dark indigo that if often looks black. Most of the other Targaryens have much lighter purple eyes.
      Now if your eyes are so dark that it is almost looks black then there would not be much of a distinction between grey and indigo eyes. I think Jon actually has the same indigo eyes as Rheagar, but he looks so much like a Stark people see what they think they should be seeing, so they describe his eyes as being grey. I think someone who knew the Targaryens or who knew Rheagar well would notice Jon’s eyes, but he is never really in the company of such a person. However there was someone who definitely would have been able to see something like this, Aemon, so it is somewhat convenient that he was blind.
      Anyways that is just my personal suspicion.

        Quote  Reply

    114. Boudica,

      Even if Jon stays dead (as I hope he does), I’m sure we’ll remain with someone at the Wall. You yourself mentioned Melisandre. And I’m wondering if Davos might become a very prominent character there (he knows about the White Walker threat, he was the one to bring up the trouble in the North to Stannis and Melisandre in the first place). There’s always the possibility another character will get to the Wall.

        Quote  Reply

    115. Alix the Direwolf: Kit Harington has just been announced to replace Robert Pattinson in Brimstone. It is already starting to film, apparently.

      My guess is that Kit will HARDLY be in the season:-

      Episode 1 – the funeral scene or dragging the body away.

      Episode 10 – resurrection.

      Season 7 – many months filming.

      He will be done by the end of July, cut his hair, film Brimstone and then the Xavier Dolan film, by that time the hair will have regrown enough to restart filming in August next year. Or maybe he will get Daenerys ‘bed hair’ wig.

      He is just filming in June and July, Carice van Houten is also in this film and she is supposed to have a lot of scenes for season 6. So my guess is with both of them doing this same film, that the shooting on the wall will only start in August.

        Quote  Reply

    116. Boudica: I dont think there is anything to Jon’s eyes at the end of the episode, I think they are just trying to show how the life drains out of him. It is perhaps his pupils dilating. I think if the show wanted people to see something they would not make it so subtle.

      My guess is that this was CGI, as eyes dilate when you die. The actor’s eyes would be contracting if anything due to the increase in light. Those last few seconds are not natural in the real world of acting, but they would be natural in-universe if Jon died.

        Quote  Reply

    117. TOIVA: Even if Jon stays dead (as I hope he does), I’m sure we’ll remain with someone at the Wall. You yourself mentioned Melisandre. And I’m wondering if Davos might become a very prominent character there (he knows about the White Walker threat, he was the one to bring up the trouble in the North to Stannis and Melisandre in the first place). There’s always the possibility another character will get to the Wall.

      Davos could be someone important, even Melisandre has said so. He obviously has some role somewhere to play. You would think that he might take the black after the burning of Shireen, but the Nights Watch is very likely done, and he is married with 3(?) living sons in the books so I highly doubt it.
      You also have to look at where Davos is currently in the books, he is somewhat lost at sea around Skagos looking for Rickon.
      My guess is, especially after his connection with Shireen, that he will find Rickon and look after him or protect him. I think that will be his quest. He doesn’t go anywhere near the Wall, and if Stannis or Jon isn’t at the Wall anymore I cant see why Davos would be going there, in the books that is. Of course things could be very different in the show, but I believe he will still go and look for Rickon and he will be a protector of Rickon.

      I think or at least hope that a lot of characters will soon find their way to the wall, they could combine Jon with a lot of other characters there.

        Quote  Reply

    118. Deesensfan,

      Sure, but they are not playing the same role in either production so what difference does that make? Schedules can be bigger or smaller. They wouldn’t sign Kit Harington for a bit part any more. He doesn’t need it. CVH does not do big choreographed fight scenes on GoT so her filming schedule has always been relatively short. Many episodes she is not even in.

      GoT simply cannot manage to hide Kit Harington in Northern Ireland for 6 months so if they are sticking to the ‘dead is dead’ mantra he can’t be around, but be seen filming elsewhere.

      In any case for it to be logical for Melisandre or anyone to resurrect Jon particularly there needs to be the big R+L=J reveal. That is what the Arthur Dayne character is being cast for – if not, what else could he be doing? With it being a central mystery D&D are not going to just lay it all out in episode one, but gradually give clues until the ‘lightbulb’ moment. Jon must be away for a considerable part of the season, if not most. I expect the resurrection scene to be the very last of the season again.

      In short, Jon Snow will be all over the season, but not in person.

        Quote  Reply

    119. Alix the Direwolf:

      Sorry. Posted too soon.

      Kit Harington is currently in Northern Ireland (in hiding). He is not on the set of Brimstone. It looks like he is doing GoT (just a couple of scenes) and then will be going to Brimstone.

        Quote  Reply

    120. Chad Brick: My guess is that this was CGI, as eyes dilate when you die. The actor’s eyes would be contracting if anything due to the increase in light. Those last few seconds are not natural in the real world of acting, but they would be natural in-universe if Jon died.

      Yes, I agree they are basically trying to show us that Jon is really dead.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Ginevra,

      Ah, I see. You are correct: I do take a dim view about wild speculations about plot details: plot details should be, after all, logical constructs; when they aren’t, then we have plot holes!

      However, this is much more about story, and story is a different matter. Story is, by nature, a wild construct. GRRM has said many times (and said it years and years ago) that the White Walkers motives would be important. Both the show and the books should be screaming “Don’t trust R’hllor” at us. GRRM loves to play with triangles: A hates B hates C hates A. I now think that, maybe, just maybe even that was a little too simple.

      It’s only a general pattern, and I fully admit that it’s seat-of-the-pants arm-waving. It is a direction that the story and general plots still could go, not any kind of deduction from first principles. Alternatively, it might still be “just” the Trinity of AA getting humanity through the cross-fire of the Walkers vs. R’hllor. Or it might be humanity using one to defeat But there have to be even more possibilities than this, and I think that Jon’s fate probably will be tied into it. AND…. as that will affect what Kit does on the show in the future (including the possibility of “nothing”) is tied into this!

      (See Mods: I am making this about Kit! 😀 )

        Quote  Reply

    122. Alix the Direwolf,

      understandable
      but I just don’t understand how they can “hold off” a resurrection… the death has to be dealt with in episode 1

      and someone mentioned that CVH has a lot of scenes this season 6… so how would that all work?

      unless jon is gone forever.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Alix the Direwolf: Kit Harington is currently in Northern Ireland (in hiding). He is not on the set of Brimstone. It looks like he is doing GoT (just a couple of scenes) and then will be going to Brimstone.

      He obviously moves around a lot! Yes he was in Ireland last week or something, but over the weekend he was spotted in London at a Blur concert.

      The strange thing about this movie is that they have already started shooting a week ago somewhere in Europe. And now they have suddenly changed the actors for some strange reason. So I would guess he would start working on this pronto.
      It is funny that he and Carice will very likely work together for a while on two different things.

        Quote  Reply

    124. *sigh*

      We KNOW what warging looks like on the show. the actor does a little body shock, and we get CGI milky-white eyes. I want “the Littlest Hobo – Ghost version” too but come on…

      Dream about Red Velvet doing a rescue, dream about Bran barging in and doing a rescue… but Jon warging on his own on the TV show with no set-up? Huh?

      Dream about Olly burning and squealing and Jon coming back to life… dream about that a lot….

        Quote  Reply

    125. Deesensfan,

      The death will be dealt with in episode 1, sure. But if they hate him why would they give him a proper funeral? Just drag and dump him into an ice cell and lock it. Or maybe they hide the body that way and pretend he ‘disappeared’. Or maybe some wildlings/Tormund find out what happened and attack them – everybody dies so no funeral. Or the WWs attack. Maximum death & no burnings.

      There are various ways Jon does not necessarily get burnt asap.

        Quote  Reply

    126. GameofHype: I’d like to share a theory I’ve started to see appear.

      There’s a lot of posts about the sharp increase in potential flashbacks coming for season 6 (Young Robert & Ned – Tower of joy etc.).

      This is the theory.

      Melisandre is obviously at the wall, of all places she could have gone, she went to the wall. It’s thought that season 6 will indeed not include Kit Harrington in any way, however, it will go back to the wall, where Melisandre in her room will gaze into the fires and thus bring us these flashbacks. Melisandre (and MAYBE Bran) will be the tool used by D&D to tell us what really happened with Jon’s birth. Over the season it will progress, until finally in episode 10 Melisandre will add 2 and 2 together, ending with her with a shocked look on her face.

      Personally, I love the idea.

      I would like to see Kit in season six, but really I like this idea as well. If it is done right it could be very poignant, and it would be something completely different for the show. Although stretching it out over 10 episodes might be a bit too much.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Deesensfan:
      Does anyone think that the Night King’s staring at Jon from above, and then stare down later was foreshadowing for something?

      Natch! That was a we’ll-meet-again-if-it’s-the-last-thing-we-do look if I ever saw one. In fact, we should make a list of all of the foreshadowing moments for Jon in the series so that John M W may better understand why we believe.

      Setups left hanging:
      1. The staredown battle with the Night’s King
      2. Jon setup as the warrior hero at Hardhome and at last year’s battle at the Wall
      3. Sam: I’ve been worrying about Jon for years. He always comes back.
      4. Melisandre: This power in you, you resist it, and that’s your mistake. Embrace it.
      5. Aemon: Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.
      6. Jon: The Long Night is coming and the dead come with it. No clan can stop them. The free folk can’t stop them. The Night’s Watch can’t stop them. And all the southern kings can’t stop them. Only together, all of us.
      7. Tormund: He’s prettier than both my daughters, but he knows how to fight. He’s young, but he knows how to lead. He didn’t have to come to Hardhome. He came because he needs us and we need him.
      8. Wildling Elder @ Hardhome: At least with King Crow, there’s a chance.
      9. Selyse: You think highly of this boy. Stannis: Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch. Selyse: A bastard by some tavern slot. Stannis: Perhaps, but that wasn’t Ned Stark’s way.
      10. Sansa: My father never talked about [Aunt Lyanna]. Sometimes I’d find him down here, lighting the candles.
      Littlefinger: They say she was beautiful. I saw her once. I was a boy, living with your mother’s family. Lord Whent had a great tourney at Harrenhal. Everyone was there. The Mad King, your father, Robert Baratheon, and Lyanna. She was already promised to Robert. You can imagine what it was like for me, a boy from nowhere, with nothing to his name, watching these legendary men, tilting at the lists. The last two riders were Barristan Selmy and Rhaegar Targaryen. When Rhaegar won, everyone cheered for the prince. I remember the girls laughing when he took off his helmet and they saw that silver hair. How handsome he was. Until he rode right past his wife, Elia Martell, and all the smiles died. I’ve never seen so many people so quiet. He rode past his wife and he lay a crown of winter roses in Lyanna’s lap. Blue was frost. How many tens of thousands had to die because Rhaegar chose your aunt?
      Sansa: Yes, he chose her. And then he kidnapped her and raped her.
      LF: Come. Let’s speak somewhere the dead can’t hear us.
      11. Ser Barristan: I was thinking of all the times your brother made me go with him down from the Red Keep, into the streets of King’s Landing.
      Dany: Why?
      SB: He liked to walk among the people, he liked to sing to them.
      Dany: He sang to them?
      SB: Yes. Rhaegar would take a spot on the Hook or the Street of Seeds and he’d sing. Just like all the other minstrels.
      Dany: And what did you do?
      SB: I made sure no one killed him. And… I collected the money. Well… he liked to see how much he could make.
      Dany: He was good?
      SB: He was very good. Viserys never told you?
      Dany: He told me Rhaegar was good at killing people.
      SB: Rhaegar never liked killing. He loved singing.
      Dany: And what did you do with the money?
      SB: Well, one time, we gave it to the next minstrel down the street. One time, he gave it to an orphanage in Flea Bottom. One time… we got horribly drunk.
      12. Catelyn, Season 3: When my husband brought that baby home from the war, I couldn’t bear to look at him. I didn’t want to see those brown stranger’s eyes staring up at me. So I prayed to the gods, take him away. Make him die. He got the pox. And I knew I was the worst woman who ever lived. A murderer. I’d condemned this poor, innocent child to a horrible death all because I was jealous of his mother. A woman he didn’t even know. So I prayed to all seven gods, let the boy live. Let him live and I’ll love him. I’ll be a mother to him. I’ll beg my husband to give him a true name, to call him Stark and be done with it, to make him one of us. And he lived. And he lived.
      13. Aemon: A Targaryen alone in the world is a terrible thing. [Enter Jon Snow.]

      Feel free to add. I’ve just tried to cover the show foreshadowing, but there is so much more in the books.

        Quote  Reply

    128. Not sure how relevant this is but Variety reports Kit signed onto a film that shoots this summer ( with Carice, ironically enough). He replaced Robert Pattinson.

        Quote  Reply

    129. Lady Wolfsbane: Dream about Red Velvet doing a rescue, dream about Bran barging in and doing a rescue… but Jon warging on his own on the TV show with no set-up? Huh?

      We can ditto that for the books. Jon never does more than have wolf-dreams in the books. He doesn’t know how to put his whole mind into Ghost deliberately.

      Moreover, both show and books tell us that wargs get lost in their animals pretty quickly: Jojen warns Bran about that in both media, and the Varamyr prologue chapter mentions that. Jon jumping -> Ghost should mean no Jon left after a short period of time.

      Of the standard models, Red Velvet model still seems most probable to me. I do not see what Bran could do: we never have seen evidence (on show or in books) that the tree-gods could perform “miracles” the way that R’hllor does. Moreover, as this isn’t happening near a weirwood tree and there is no indication that any warged animals are watching this, there is no particular reason to think that Bran will even learn about it immediately.

      At any rate, B&W have been as fastidious about developing plot devices before using plot devices as they have been about not developing plot devices that are not used.

      So, whatever Kit does next on the show, it won’t be narrating Jon’s thoughts as Ghost watches the world go round and round! (See mods? It’s back to Kit! 😉 )

        Quote  Reply

    130. Ginevra,

      I think at this point, the foreshadowing in the books that was not included on the show shouldn’t be used to determine if Jon/Kit comes back in the show.
      That is an excellent list and that is just mostly whatever was discussed in season 5….
      I am trying to think about any foreshadowing prior to season 5.
      In Season 1 – Jon told an unconscious Bran:
      “I wish I could be here when you wake up, I am going north with uncle Benjen. I am taking the black, I know we always talked about seeing the wall together. But you will be able to come visit me at Castle Black when youre better. I will know my way around by then. I will be a sworn brother of the nights watch. We can go out walking beyond the wall if youre not afraid. ”

      Maybe they will reunite :$

      ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!! please.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Ravyn:
      Not sure how relevant this is but Variety reports Kit signed onto a film that shoots this summer ( with Carice, ironically enough). He replaced Robert Pattinson.

      Obviously this is just a cover so he can film scenes with Melisandre without everyone finding out what is going on.

        Quote  Reply

    132. Wimsey: Of the standard models, Red Velvet model still seems most probable to me. I do not see what Bran could do: we never have seen evidence (on show or in books) that the tree-gods could perform “miracles” the way that R’hllor does. Moreover, as this isn’t happening near a weirwood tree and there is no indication that any warged animals are watching this, there is no particular reason to think that Bran will even learn about it immediately.

      Well Carice has been talking about some big scene that she will do in season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    133. Have we been bad and not keeping things topical? Eh, I’m horrible for hijacking threads… Kit Kit Kit go Kit…

      Wimsey,

      In the books – all I think Jon’s final word meant is that Ghost will protect the body. You can’t burn Jon’s body with a VERY pissed off Direwolf involved. Hell, even dogs WILL protect their owner’s body (freaky personal professional experience – heck I even saw a couple cats get pissed at me once)

      My only thoughts on Bran are him somehow kick-starting the warging – catching up Arya and Jon on their connection with their wolves that the show may have not been able to afford/commit time to until now. Very true – D & D have been very efficient… but with magical powers, unlimited time and budget – I bet there would have been a wee bit more Direwolves. I mean, Direwolves are WAY too cool…

      Go Red Velvet all the way. I adore how we all are forced to go from Episode 9 “I hate R’hllor, he is the worst God EVER” to Episode 10 “I love the Lord of Light please do that resurrection stuff you like to do pretty please…”

        Quote  Reply

    134. Chad Brick,

      His pupils are not expanding but rather becoming better differentiated from the iris as the light moves in. The lighting in that scene was dark to begin with (see 4:25 in the video below). If Kit was working in that rather dimly lit scene for an extended period of time, his pupils would start off quite dilated and wouldn’t have time to adjust to the new light moving in, especially since the light moving in took only ten seconds or so.

      https://youtu.be/nBeVOvLeySc?t=4m25s

      From 4:25 to 4:35 in the video, it is no coincidence that the reflected light growing brighter is 100% synchronized with the camera moving in, which is 100% with the irises getting lighter, which is 100% synchronized with the pupils becoming better defined. There is a light that is moving in sync with the camera, probably attached to the camera, and that light shining directly into his eyes is dissipating the shadows that made the eyes look brown when they’re really green.

      Previous picture of Kit with a light in his eyes: http://40.media.tumblr.com/b119585d8ca77a811a458c2069163116/tumblr_ngg0xbnSCO1ram8hyo1_1280.png

      Previous picture of Kit with plenty of light but not light shining directly at his eyes: http://www.reshareit.com/wp-content/uploads/Kit-Harington.jpg

      If you Google Kit Harington’s eyes and look at the images, you’ll see countless more examples of eyes this green and eyes this brown and everywhere in between.

        Quote  Reply

    135. Wimsey,

      I wholeheartedly agree that the Others are important and that we shouldn’t trust R’hllor, despite the fact that he has real magical powers. We should trust no religion but the religion in the North, whose name is Children. Of the Forest. And whose faces are carved in the trees we pray to.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Delta1212,

      😀 Good one.Mel is supposed to have a very important arc and they can film scenes in September,October or a bit later.Usually Castle Black scenes are filmed as the absolute last.Carice and Kit it’s ironic though. 😀 Those readheads seems to follow Kit everywhere.

        Quote  Reply

    137. All you people that think Bran can’t save Jon lack imagination, among other things.

      Is it that far fetched a thought to think perhaps Bran can telepathically connect to Jon and help him Warg?

      I guess in this fantasy land of Westeros where there are Dragons, shadowbabys and white walkers, I am totally off my rocker for thinking that’s possible.

        Quote  Reply

    138. Arthur,

      Possible from the perspective of the world? Of course. Possible from a production standpoint on the show, I can’t think of a way of pulling that off that isn’t going to be at least a little hokey.

        Quote  Reply

    139. Wimsey: Jon never does more than have wolf-dreams in the books. He doesn’t know how to put his whole mind into Ghost deliberately.

      I hear what you’re saying, but there is a first time for everything. I think the books have set Snow up to be a great warg, and there is also some evidence that warging could happen in FTW. In addition to calling out to Ghost in the books, we have Melisandre’s vision, with my commentary in [].

      A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf’s face threw back his head and howled. [Brynden and Bran!]

      …The flames crackled softly, and in their crackling she heard the whispered name Jon Snow. His long face floated before her, limned in tongues of red and orange, appearing and disappearing again, a shadow half-seen behind a fluttering curtain. Now he was a man, now a wolf, now a man again. [Man-to-wolf-to-man = warging] But the skulls were here as well [skulls of death at Jon’s warging], the skulls were all around him. Melisandre had seen his danger before, had tried to warn the boy of it. Enemies all around him, daggers in the dark. [definitely FTW] He would not listen.

      …Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R’hllor shows me only Snow. [R’hllor’s visions, though never wrong, can be misinterpreted, but it is hard for us to misinterpret that!] –ADwD, Pages 448-449.

        Quote  Reply

    140. Ginevra,

      Great list. Here’s another massive unresolved moment from Season One:

      14. Ned: There’s great honor serving in the Night’s Watch. The Starks have manned the wall for thousands of years, and you are a Stark. You may not have my name, but you have my blood.
      Jon: Is my mother alive. Does she know about me, where I am, where I’m going? Does she care?
      Ned: The next time we see each other, we’ll talk about your mother. Hmmm? I promise.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Sunfyre,

      IMO, one thing is for sure, Jon is coming back, he is not dead-dead.

      We can argue about how that will happen, my personal theory is Warg, then somehow be brought back into a human body later on. (hopefully Jon Snow’s body so Kit can continue to play the character)

        Quote  Reply

    142. Kit has really grown into the role, and he did a tremendous job. Out of thd big three (Tyrion, Jon, Dany) he was the best of season 5 by a large margin. It’s sad that we won’t be seeing him… in the first few episodes of season 6 before Mel zaps him with her boobs and gets him back up.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Arthur:
      Sunfyre,

      IMO, one thing is for sure, Jon is coming back, he is not dead-dead.

      We can argue about how that will happen, my personal theory is Warg, then somehow be brought back into a human body later on. (hopefully Jon Snow’s body so Kit can continue to play the character)

      I think its more than possible that Jon Snow returns in a way that was described by GRRM to D&D where Kit couldn’t possibly play him. Say…Azor Ahai has more of an Essos look, where he’s ethnic, or darker skinned. Obviously, even Kit would say, “Nah, I can’t do that.” The more I hear of Kit’s schedule, and even more recent comments “I’m definitely not coming back. Root for someone else”, the more I believe he’s really done with the show. (and, yes, I know that’s terrible from a TV standpoint, less so from a book perspective. It’s just a possibility I thought of)

        Quote  Reply

    144. mariamb,

      Bah! There is no movie “Brimstone.” This is just a front being staged by HBO to hide the fact that they are filming Jon’s Throne scenes.

      Oh, and newsflash! Dakota Fanning is playing Lyanna in flashbacks……

      😀

        Quote  Reply

    145. Arthur,

      Agreed. I think he’ll be back.

      The timeline for his resurrection is a big question mark for me. Almost as big as the method used to bring him back. Keeping Kit out of Season 6 entirely would be a very bold choice. It could frustrate a large segment of the fanbase. But bringing him back immediately might not be right for the story.

        Quote  Reply

    146. Ravyn: Say…Azor Ahai has more of an Essos look, where he’s ethnic, or darker skinned.

      Azor Ahai isn’t going to be a new person. It will be a role named after the first person of legend who took it.

      One theme of GRRM’s has been the fundamental falsness of fairy tales. AA might have been a real person in one sense, but the deified version of him never existed. Whoever (or whichever trio) assumes this mantle in this war will get the same sort of apotheosis in the future: but they are just people right now. AA is not going to be a superman or a trio of supermen: they just will be exceptional people who were in the right places at the right times.

      So, it will be Kit playing the person of future mythology. (Wednesday is a “Kit will be back!” day for me!)

        Quote  Reply

    147. offering him opportunities he would have had no chance of otherwise.

      Like the entirety of this Curtain Call, this was hilariously tongue-in-cheek.

      If this *does* end up being Kit’s last season, and if HBO *does* ditch a resurrection similar to the end of “Storm of Swords,” then Kit goes out with the best material the show has given him. The best episode of the season, “Hardhome,” belonged to Jon Snow and his ragged bunch of Night’s Watch and Wildling supporters.

      Bravo, Kitt. We shall never see your like again. Or so it would seem.

        Quote  Reply

    148. Ginevra,

      I will be very disappointed in GRRM if he goes this way. It is not that the idea is necessarily a bad one: but he should have had Jon progress much, much further along in his warging. At the very least, he should have gotten at least as far as Arya has gotten (and I am betting will get next season).

      As it stands, the problem arises in that the text tells us up front that wargs who completely “join” their animal soon get lost inside of the animal forever. If Jon is in Ghost, then it cannot be for long at all: Jojen warns Bran against doing it for overlong while Bran is still alive, after all.

      The other big strike against it is that B&W actually joked about it last year at the Oxford round-table. If they were going to do warging, then they would not have joked about it in advance!

        Quote  Reply

    149. Lady Wolfsbane:
      Roocat,
      The Long Night,

      The more important question… has anyone done a video cutting together poor Fred Savage asking Peter Falk who kills Ramsay while he tries to understand Jon Snow’s death?

      I had this exact thought!

      “Who gets Ramsay?”
      “I don’t understand.”
      “Who kills Ramsay? At the end, somebody’s got to do it! Is it Brienne? Who?”
      “Nobody. Nobody kills him. He lives.”
      “You mean he wins? Jesus, grandpa, why did you read me this thing for?”
      “You know, you’ve been very sick, and you’re taking this story very seriously. I think we’d better stop now.”

        Quote  Reply

    150. I’m kind of slowly leaning towards the Mel thing being a bit of a fake-out. They’ve certainly telegraphed her interest in Jon, we know about the power of king’s blood (which Jon would have if R+L=J), and we had the created-for-the-show scene way back in season 3 where Mel learned that resurrection is possible.

      To me, that means there is approximately a 100% chance that Mel being at Castle Black is so that she can try to resurrect Jon. However, I think there is so much pointing to this happening that it will be a bit anticlimactic if she says some words and Jon arises. My thoughts now are that she will absolutely try, it will be an amazing scene…but for some reason it just won’t work. Then the fanbase will finally and truly believe that Jon really is all-dead instead of mostly-dead!

      And the actual resurrection scene (if there is one, naturally) will come about in a later episode in some manner no one expects yet.

        Quote  Reply

    151. This is cute, this whole curtain call for a guy who isn’t dead. 😉

      He’ll be back.

      But beyond that, Harington really did a hell of a job, particularly in seasons 4-5. He started off playing a moody, reactive character that doesn’t do a hell of a lot to make a person seem like they’re really in command of the material when you’ve got giants like Sean Bean, Michelle Fairley, Peter Dinklage, Charles Dance, and every other British character they could throw at the screen. So he can’t help but seem a bit diminished, and for quite a while, he seemed to be the weakest member of the cast, an honor that will never befall him again as long as the Sand Snakes are on the show.

      That changed, or started to change, for me, in Season 3, particularly in his interactions with Rose Leslie, and the way they really showed a lot of spark between them. It really started to take off in Season 4, and he really became the strongest member of the cast in terms of handling the physical stuff – which actors don’t get enough credit for – because other than Rory McCann, I can’t think of anyone else who was doing so much and conveying so much of character during fight scenes.

      And then came “Watchers on the Wall.” That’s where he jumped up into the pantheon for me as a contributor to this show. He carried that damned episode on his back (with apologies to John Bradley and Kristofer Hivju), and that stayed through the fifth season, with the Wall arc being the strongest storyline of the year.

      When the WOTW awards get going, I know where I’m looking for Best Actor.

      He’ll be back, of course! But still, he was great.

        Quote  Reply

    152. Simeon,

      I think Mel – or more specifically, the Lord of Light – will resurrect him, but he won’t be quite the same Jon we knew. If nothing changed, then having him die in the first place would be pointless. He’ll perhaps be “a bit less” when he comes back, like Beric… or perhaps a bit more if he is risen as the Warrior of Light. Either way, he’ll be different.

        Quote  Reply

    153. I want to believe but having major Jon is dead day. I think I may be progressing from denial to bargaining/depression.

      I just don’t put it past D&D to troll the fandom. Sam’s comment to Olly is a prime example. It could just be a comment that means exactly the opposite. Mel turning up at CB could be another red herring. It isn’t as if they don’t have form for it as they did exactly that with Stannis for the first half of the season. There are so many plot points that mean Jon should be around for a while but I am not sure how much D&D want a solid narrative against having those “no one is safe”moments.

      The Oxford Union night worried me at the time as it sounded like they were saying “season six” because he wasn’t around. Kit Harington seemed to get the joke too.

      Anyway,as this is a curtain call, goodbye Mr Harington. I will miss your kick ass sword fights and your fantastic ability to say a lot without saying much at all.

      And now his watch has ended.

      First posts are scary

        Quote  Reply

    154. Wimsey,

      I don’t think it will be for long, but I think he may go there just before he dies and stay there until Mel resurrects him. His dying will be the adrenaline, desperation push he’s needed to embrace the warging, but he certainly won’t be like Sixskins who stays that way forever. There’d be no point to keeping a Ghost!Jon who couldn’t talk, couldn’t use Longclaw, couldn’t rule, ….

        Quote  Reply

    155. Jon Snow is “gone”…….. Davos smuggled him out of Castle Black to a hidden ice cave. Melissandre needs time to gather herself for the resurrection-not of Jon Snow but Azor Ahai……the Prince who was Promised? Possibly. Unless GRRM had a stroke and D/D quit the show there is no way the stabbing is the end. Too much build up and for heaven’s sake, Ghost came out of nowhere to defend Sam in a kitchen no less. Where the fuck was that canine when his ” person” was in trouble? Too many loose ends.
      Variety just printed an article that Kit Harington has signed to do a movie entitled “Brimstone”. It sounds like a great piece, all the right producers, director, writers, $$$$$$$ and cast. Oh……..one of the other actors who signed on is Carice Van Houten…….now where have we heard of this actress? Of course, there is no production date yet…….
      Nice head fake……..Carice will be at Comic Con in July…….brave woman that she is. Hope she doesn’t have a breakdown fielding all the resurrection questioning. It will be relentless. Liam will also be in the crosshairs.
      Can’t wait to see how breathtaking Kit will be when freed from the Night’s Watch!

        Quote  Reply

    156. Robb Snow,

      This is the one place where warging could have been used if GRRM (or B&W) had developed Jon’s warging skills. IF Jon “jumped” into Ghost, and then “jumped” back into his regenerated body, then it would be much easier to accept that he was coming back as Jon instead as Jon*. Basically, it would have provided the “out” that Beric didn’t have.

      However, Jon never got further than wolf dreams, which they never even bothered to put on the show. If that was where they were going, then they would have hung the wolf dream gun on the wall this year.

      The other thing here is: why do it? Why not just have Mel swoop in and heal Jon using similar magic? Sure, we’ve not seen that exact magic, but we’ve seen generally powerful magic of this sort. Really, it’s only worthwhile to put Jon in Ghost if he gets something from being in Ghost for a while: but we’ve already been told that if Jon stays in Ghost for a while, then he’ll become permanently lost in Ghost.

        Quote  Reply

    157. Alix the Direwolf: The death will be dealt with in episode 1, sure. But if they hate him why would they give him a proper funeral? Just drag and dump him into an ice cell and lock it. Or maybe they hide the body that way and pretend he ‘disappeared’.

      This is one area I have been puzzled about and your post makes a lot of sense. Not all of the NW were in on the murder. So how can they give him a proper burial/funeral? If they quietly dump his body in an ice cell, they can just claim he disappeared of his own accord. But someone will watch and know where Jon’s body is…… GHOST! He will know. And in the future, when Jon is out of most people’s mind at the Wall, Ghost will still remember and show someone, who will resurrect him. I have ideas about who the someone is; I don’t think it’s Red Mel. 🙂 But Ghost will play a part, a big part!

      Simeon: And the actual resurrection scene (if there is one, naturally) will come about in a later episode in some manner no one expects yet.

      Yes, I am starting to think so too. I doubt Red Mel is there for this; seems too obvious for GoT.

        Quote  Reply

    158. He will return next season, as a White Walker human hybrid leading the armies of the dead. You´ll wish he´d remain dead.
      It is known

        Quote  Reply

    159. Milady de Yorkshire: I want to believe but having major Jon is dead day. I think I may be progressing from denial to bargaining/depression.

      Mondays and Tuesdays for me: man, they suck! 😀

      Milady de Yorkshire: The Oxford Union night worried me at the time as it sounded like they were saying “season six” because he wasn’t around. Kit Harington seemed to get the joke too.

      The fact that they made the joke should be pretty strong evidence against their doing it. They are very aware of all of the fan conjecture. (Bradley mentions it in his interview about Jon leaving that should have been conducted not long after the Oxford roundtable, I think). If they were planning to do it, then they would simply have skirted the issue. Also, Harington would not know about it if they were: they do not tell the actors what they will be doing in the next season, after all. All Kit knew at that point was that he was going to be telling people that he wasn’t in Season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    160. Red Velvet could definitely raise me. In fact, she already has! She can do this for Jon, too. Everybody expected FTW to come and long ago when she got her BWB resurrection handbook, it was all, oh, this is so she can resurrect Jon. Then it was like, she can’t if he’s to die in episode 10 because she’s not there. Then she was there. Why did everybody stop believing the clues that were good enough before? Because the actor said something? Really? If the showrunners want a cliffhanger, this is how you handle it. Despair here is just silliness. Don’t overthink it. Lady Redbush raising Jon isn’t “too obvious” and the showrunners aren’t using it to fool you. It’s obvious in the way it needs to be for resurrection to not be cheap. It’s basic, responsible storytelling.

      Get over it. Dude’s rising. And he’ll be cutting diamonds.

        Quote  Reply

    161. Welcome to WotW Milady de Yorkshire Your first post was well written from my point of view and indeed first times are difficult. It goes all downhill from here.

      Wimsey

      I tend to agree with you and others and get on the Mel train if there is any to get on at all. I do think that Ghost and possibly Davos will have something to do with getting the body some place else for Mel to do her thing….I see that in 601 and then the Mel magics later, closer to the end of the Season. No warging into Ghost theory for me, it just wasn’t given any time on the show at all that JS knew how to warg or even thought of himself with the ability, even tho he saw it first hand with the Wildings. Also I believe the Bran as savior is out too…..there would be too much to do with the Bran arc to make that happen in time to reach JS who is dead at Castle Black, even through the Owl Network. 😉 That said, something occurred to me today….I am going to TRY and put the thoughts down coherently, hopefully it comes out right – (it makes sense in my head)

      What if…..It occurs to me that the book series is named A Song of Ice and Fire. Where JS and the R+L=J, Ghost warging, biggest plot is about the Winter that is horrid that is coming, the summer has lasted way too long and been way too damaging, the Wall is the most important place because they are first on the line of defense of the realm from the danger that is to come from the WW/Wights….scary flame throwing skeletons…..with some of the kingdom politicking as well. The very name of the series is more telling on what it is about than say…..

      Game of Thrones. Because I was a show watcher before I read the books (yes, like many after I watched the Red Wedding I had to know more), I always thought this series was about the conflict between different kingdoms of Essos and Westeros and there was this empty throne and who IS the right person to have it and what has to happen for that person(s) to take the throne and win in the end. The problem of the Wall/WW and such were second to the main theme of the show. Okay….SO what does that mean COULD happen from one viewpoint to the other?

      If the show goes the way of the ultimate book outline that D & D got, then we have JS brought back most likely by Mel. If the show goes the way of the show (sometimes going away from book Canon and sometimes doing it almost exactly), then for the purposes of GoT’s if JS is NOT the one that will ultimately sit on the throne or help the person who is….then JS could, in fact, have been written off by D & D to get to the end game in the two seasons left.

      Boy that is depressing to write. Does it make any sense at all? I am sure others will see holes in what I wrote, but I hope that I got it down properly.

        Quote  Reply

    162. Kay,

      I think they will want to give him proper funeral.He was traitor to them,but still the man was Lord Commander.If they burn him…game over.It looks like his mind and soul is still in his body,not in Ghost,unless maybe they didn’t show us this (some sort of suprise).Ghost could be acting very weirdly around Mel,signalling Jon’s mind is there.Ice cells is another option,but why would they do that? I just don’t think Thorne will want to see Jon joining Others,as some very angry wight.

      Olly as Brutus was too damn obvious too,but I know where you’re going with this.

      I agree to certain extent about Mel part in this.My theory is that Jon is the balance…hence if R+L=J is true Ice and Fire. Bran strikes me more as Ice and Dany Fire,if we’re talking about characters.My guess is that it will be Mel and Bran with Bloodraven will play part in this too.

        Quote  Reply

    163. Milady de Yorkshire:
      I want to believe but having major Jon is dead day. I think I may be progressing from denial to bargaining/depression. I just don’t put it past D&D to troll the fandom. Sam’s comment to Olly is a prime example. It could just be a comment that means exactly the opposite. Mel turning up at CB could be another red herring. It isn’t as if they don’t have form for it as they did exactly that with Stannis for the first half of the season. There are so many plot points that mean Jon should be around for a while but I am not sure how much D&D want a solid narrative against having those “no one is safe”moments.

      The Oxford Union night worried me at the time as it sounded like they were saying “season six” because he wasn’t around. Kit Harington seemed to get the joke too.

      Anyway,as this is a curtain call, goodbye Mr Harington.I will miss your kick ass sword fights and your fantastic ability to say a lot without saying much at all.

      And now his watch has ended.

      First posts are scary

      This was a fine first post, Milady. Welcome! It’s a lovely little place here, for the most part safe, sometimes salty, always interesting.

      If this does, indeed, end up being a true farewell, then we’ve sent the young man out in fine fashion, attesting floridly to his heart and bravery. At the very least, it’s a chance to throw blue flowers and paeans toward a most deserving young fellow. Sometimes, there is a dire shortage of good words spoken in a world wildly in need of them. I’m always happy to contribute. Seems like you will be, as well.

        Quote  Reply

    164. Here is how we’ll kniw if Jon is dead for good or not:

      Kit said he can’t wait to get a haircut but can’t because of his contract with the show. So if he loses the Jon curls, he’s dead. If not (which seems to be the case, since he kept it for some time after filming) then he almost definitely will return.

        Quote  Reply

    165. Boudica,

      Ah, the books. Well, as an Unsullied, I could hardly find reasons for Davos not to stay at Castle Black.

      But based on what you say, I hope the storyline diverges (or keeps diverging). Because without Davos there, yes, Jon’t absence could be a problem indeed.

        Quote  Reply

    166. Geralt of Rivia,

      Oh God no,just please,no . Even if that’s how Jon is ressurected in the books i hope they change it and let him keep his hair because it will look terrible,no offense to Kit but i can’t picture him in blonde or silver hair .

        Quote  Reply

    167. The problem with Jon ACTUALLY being dead is it alienates the entire audience from all the goings-on at The Wall, the threat of the White Walkers, The Wildlings etc etc.

      He was our anchor to this region of the world, much like Dany is to Essos and Tyrion/Cersei is to Kings Landing.

      To have him die permanently is just a bad move from a narrative stand-point, not to mention that there are a number unresolved plot-points pertaining to him in someway. It’s not like Ned’s death which was a catalyst for the start of the War, or Robb’s death that signaled the end of it… His death just feels hollow. It doesn’t resolve anything, it doesn’t kick-off some other interesting plot arc, all it does is just remove us as book readers (and viewers) from the Wall, which again I’ll reiterate, is stupid from a narrative point.

      tl;dr He’s not dead. And if he is, he will be brought back to life some how.

        Quote  Reply

    168. Geralt of Rivia:
      Kay,

      I think they will want to give him proper funeral. He was traitor to them,but still the man was Lord Commander. If they burn him…game over

      What galled me is the way they turned and walked away, without so much as a backward glance, proud that they had left him bleeding in the snow. Proud, like they had done some wonderful, brave deed. They will drink and congratulate themselves, it will get rowdy. Someone will come up with the idea of cutting up the body further. Edd will hear the commotion; aghast, he runs to Davos for help. The old man picks up the body, tears streaming into his beard, but the look on his face is deadly with fury. This is almost too much for him to bear. First his son, then innocent Shireen is taken, then this boy. They take the body …..

      That’s where I left it … where could they take the body where the bozos couldn’t find it? Or would they take the body? Davos and Edd couldn’t take on the drunken idiots by themselves. So …. ???

        Quote  Reply

    169. blockbuster success in Pompeii..??

      Yes, I am a besserwiser, but that was an Epic and total disaster at the box office.

        Quote  Reply

    170. Pompeii was a success?

      It’s one of the biggest box office bombs of the last few years. $100 million budget and it made only $23 million domestically. It was panned by critics, too.

        Quote  Reply

    171. Rick:
      Pompeii was a success?

      It’s one of the biggest box office bombs of the last few years. $100 million budget and it made only $23 million domestically. It was panned by critics, too.

      so what? Other GOT actors, like EC in Terminator are also not doing the best things.

      The new projects Kit is working on sound really interesting, he is getting much better parts now.

        Quote  Reply

    172. TOIVA:
      Boudica,

      Even if Jon stays dead (as I hope he does), I’m sure we’ll remain with someone at the Wall. You yourself mentioned Melisandre. And I’m wondering if Davos might become a very prominent character there (he knows about the White Walker threat, he was the one to bring up the trouble in the North to Stannis and Melisandre in the first place). There’s always the possibility another character will get to the Wall.

      how can you hope for JOn being dead? AT this point it would look just like bad storyline, investing so much time on his parentage without ever revealing it, its just lame. The books have much more hints in it, but it was really obvious this season how they hinted on Jons heritage.

        Quote  Reply

    173. Deesensfan:
      taim,

      exactly… and if they wanted to deviate from all that and just kill him off.. why include the hints in there?

      It’s possible that who his parents are IS important to the overall plot while not requiring him to be alive. That would be some ninja GRRM kind of shit to pull off…

        Quote  Reply

    174. GeekFurious,

      I could see it. They have the reveal so Jon’s actual parentage is known by key characters. And then it is pointed out how Jon lines up with the prince that was promised/azor ahai prophecies. So the acknowledged prophesied “savior” of the human race gets killed off at the moment he is most needed. Sounds like something GRRM would do haha.

      But I seriously hope not.

        Quote  Reply

    175. My completely random quickly written speculation for Season 6 path.

      Balon Greyjoy in the show is still alive and by some rules a ‘king’. Sansa knows that Jon is at the wall, so she’ll flee there. On the way, she runs in to Tormund. Red, heads get along. He takes her and Theon to the wall. They find out Jon is dead, Ghost leads her to his body where Ghost hid it after dragging it away from the fire because Bran warged in to Ghost and saved Jon. There, under a weirwood tree, Mel uses Theon’s (Theon volunteers as sacrifice and his redemption is complete) sacrifice because it’s ‘king’s blood’ to resurrect Jon while Bran watches from the tree/Ghost. Then Balon dies. Jon and Sansa and Tormund then reunite with the wildlings and take Winterfell from the Boltons with the Vale invading from the south and ~maybe~ the Iron Born led by Asha – i mean Yara. Last scene of the season is the wall then falls because the Night’s Watch gets assaulted by the Nights King who uses the horn of Joramund (that Sam read about in Oldtown during his maester training in the earlier part of the season). With the wall down, the dead then start to rise all over Westeros. Maybe Stoneheart and Clegane (although i have a feeling the BwBanners are going to play a major role this season too so don’t be surprised if we see Clegane earlier) and i doubt a Stoneheart unless the BwB find Pod and Brienne and hold her for judgment for letting Sansa be tortured by Ramsey. End ramble.

      The key thing here is that D&D have said that it is a 70 hour story, one story, they are doing their best to tell it. And i believe that just because we don’t see a person one or two seasons doesn’t mean we don’t see them again, because if you were to binge watch the show all at once, it’d be an awesome thing to behold.

        Quote  Reply

    176. Sunfyre:
      GeekFurious,

      I could see it.They have the reveal so Jon’s actual parentage is known by key characters.And then it is pointed out how Jon lines up with the prince that was promised/azor ahai prophecies.So the acknowledged prophesied “savior” of the human race gets killed off at the moment he is most needed.Sounds like something GRRM would do haha.

      But I seriously hope not.

      And then the Boltons end up as the last line of defense against the White Walkers and their Army of the Dead… they hold out until Dany comes in with her dragons to save the day, but her army is mostly wiped out in the fight and she is killed. The last leader standing is Ramsay who is mistakenly seen as the “savior.”

        Quote  Reply

    177. Deesensfan:
      GeekFurious,

      But how would it be important to the story without him being there … Give an example

      I’m sure I could come up with a number of scenarios but I suspect whatever I’d imagine wouldn’t be what George would do.

        Quote  Reply

    178. Thought I’d add to be fair, if GRRM were somehow to actually reveal in Winds that Jon is gone for good in the books, I wouldn’t read book 7 either. But I really don’t see that happening.

        Quote  Reply

    179. How would book readers feel if they were to watch season 6 before TWOW comes out. And they find out in season 6 that D&D have killed off Jon. Everyones sad everyones pissed and confused.
      Then TWOW comes out and GRRM brings him back.

      Would it have the same effect as if you were to read TWOW now, and GRRM brings him back, so exciting happy etc… and whatever ends up happening in the show is no big deal.

      What I mean by effect is would reading Jon comes back in the book after seeing him killed off on the show, how would you feel about that? I know they are different products, but I mean in a sense of shock factor, excitement, happiness of Jon coming back.. I feel as though Jon being killed off in the show and then reading the opposite after the fact would be “meh”-ish.

      Edit – my question is a little confusing LOL

        Quote  Reply

    180. Deesensfan,

      If Jon is killed off permanently in the show despite coming back in the books, that would be a fundamental betrayal of GRRM’s vision and would make the show a failed adaptation.

      I didn’t even know that was my line in the sand until we got to the back half of season 5. But it is.

        Quote  Reply

    181. Kay,

      Geralt of Rivia,

      Thronetender,

      Well, they could tie his body to the traitor sign and leave him out in the open above the South gate, as a taunt/warning to the wildlings like? Winter has come so it’s bloody freezing out, and that would be enough to keep his body from decomposing. Then Edd, Davos and Red can do a secret mission to smuggle (hey there Davos!) the body out to Tormund and the Wildlings for a proper burial/burning/resurrection.

      Ah, speculating is fun!

        Quote  Reply

    182. KG:
      Thronetender,

      Mentioned 1000 times in the books and not once in the show. You cannot confuse the show and the books.

      Note the crest of the website coat of arms
      http://i.imgur.com/bm6FkPi.jpg

      ??????? what was? I’ve posted several things over the course of a few hours – are you talking about the purple eyes? I explained where I got that idea and that was hashed out hours ago.

      I also posted an idea about Edd hearing the carousing of the murderous Night’s Watch — he and Davos, along with Mel, then cart Jon’s body to safety — maybe even getting it through the gates and to the wildlings — where it could be held until Sansa and Theon get there (per TriLambdas and Iridium, as posted today, not too long ago) and Mel uses Theon’s blood to resurrect him, thereby providing the salt in the prophecy. That’s certainly not been in the books.

      It’s hard for me to confuse the show with the books because I only read the first three and that was years ago. I’m using book info that others have provided in these threads and other sites.

        Quote  Reply

    183. A Man Grown,

      I do agree
      But I meant if you were to watch season 6 first where Jon is killed off permanently and then read the book.. And GRRM brings him back.. Would you still be excited/happy about finding out jons is coming back while reading the book.

        Quote  Reply

    184. Deesensfan,

      If D&D kill off Jon permanently but GRRM brings him back, no matter which is released first, fans will be livid. You think Rapegate was drama – you ain’t seen nuffin yet! If this happens and we see Season 6 before TWoW, fans will be livid then sullen and justified (everyone turns into Linda). If this happens and we see TWoW before Season 6, fans will be less lived and more mocking.

        Quote  Reply

    185. Deesensfan:

      What I mean by effect is would reading Jon comes back in the book after seeing him killed off on the show, how would you feel about that? I know they are different products, but I mean in a sense of shock factor, excitement, happiness of Jon coming back.. I feel as though Jon being killed off in the show and then reading the opposite after the fact would be “meh”-ish.

      Dees, you know that I am with you in lamenting every wound on Jon’s adorable body, but I thought about that part of your arugument, about Jon being dead on the show (again Nooooo) but alive in the books. Actually, knowing that the character somehow lived to fight and brood another day, would make me kind of happy. But if they DO kill him permanently in the show, I will be unhappy for a long time.

        Quote  Reply

    186. Deesensfan,

      Ha ha, I know, only about eight and a half months to go! We would have turned ourselves inside out with speculation by then. For the record I’m definitely in the “Jon always comes back” camp. And I have absolutely no doubt he’ll be played by Kit Harington. Yes, Jon is one of my favourites (along with Arya, Brienne, Davos and Sam), and yes Kit is very, very cute, but I’m not simply clinging on to hope because of my fangirlishness. It’s more to do with storytelling and the arc GRRM (and D&D) have laid out. Other posters on this site (especially Wimsey) have argued it more eloquently than me, but for a number of reasons, it’s clear Jon’s tale simply isn’t finished yet. Have faith!

        Quote  Reply

    187. Thronetender:

      Dees, you know that I am with you in lamenting every wound on Jon’s adorable body, but I thought about that part of your arugument, about Jon being dead on the show (again Nooooo) but alive in the books. Actually, knowing that the character somehow lived to fight and brood another day, anywhere, would make me kind of happy. But if they DO kill him permanently in the show, I will be unhappy for a long time.

        Quote  Reply

    188. Deesensfan,

      I’d be excited for Jon to be resurrected. Hopefully in the books and the show. If he is brought back in one but not the other… well I’d need to see how it plays out and get a sense for why it was done that way. I don’t mind the show diverging from the books. The omission of the Griffs or LSH — just fine with me. But if Jon came back in the books and not in the show… that’s a huge departure. It’s on the order of skipping the Red Wedding or keeping Ned alive.

      But I don’t think we need to worry too much about this hypothetical. I think the books and show will align. Either he’s dead in both or he’s resurrected in both. And i’m hoping he comes back.

        Quote  Reply

    189. Thronetender: ??????? what was? I’ve posted several things over the course of a few hours – are you talking about the purple eyes?

      When I’m wondering to which post folks are referring, I click on the link of the name that appears in the post. For instance, if you click on “Thronetender” in this post, it will take you to where you gave the above quote as well as the rest of that post. And then in that post, if you click on “Thronetender” again, it will take you to which post was being discussed (the previously resolved, purple-eyed post). I hope that this helps. It took me a while to realize how useful these links were in providing context.

        Quote  Reply

    190. And here’s little ol me, sitting over here quite happy to watch the show when it comes out, and read the books when they come out, and not threaten to quit either, despite what happens to characters I like or don’t like or if one thing happens in one medium or not in the other, or………..

      Apparently I’m a rare breed. But I’m good with it. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    191. Pigeon:
      And here’s little ol me, sitting over here quite happy to watch the show when it comes out, and read the books when they come out, and not threaten to quit either, despite what happens to characters I like or don’t like or if one thing happens in one medium or not in the other, or………..

      Apparently I’m a rare breed. But I’m good with it.

      Nope. You are not alone. I am one of the faithful few to both Show and Books. I love them both for what they are and while I do want the Show to be mostly book Canon, it can’t always do that and bring quality to the screen. So I am okay when there are changes. I am very excited to read Book 6, but I am equally excited to see what D & D have in store for us in Season 6. Even if we are only a team of two, it is better than being alone, no?

        Quote  Reply

    192. JCDavis,

      Yay! 😀

      Granted this does not mean I’ll not go stark raving loony on occasion when things happen that I don’t like, but I fully expect that. Amazingly, my opinion doesn’t affect peoples’ careers. 😉

        Quote  Reply

    193. Thronetender,

      I’m tagging everything with spoiler tags because i don’t want my speculation to spoil anything for those who wish to remain unspoiled, although since it’s speculation… but whatevs.

      Ah the smuggler, didn’t think that maybe he, Ghost, Mel would smuggle Jon to the wildlings or run in to Sansa/Theon, perhaps at Bran’s command. I still think Bran will have a major part in guiding the remaining members of his family and eventually control a/all of the dragons. I love this part of NOT knowing how the story is going to unfold. Although i am confident that TWOW will be released in time for Christmas this year. What a stocking blocker that will be for any fan. But i digress. Jon’s parentage, the subtle hints by Baelish this season, just leaves so much Jon left to talk/tell about in the story. The big thing that i am surprised didn’t happen in the show is Rob, thinking that both Bran and Rickon dead by the hands of Theon, decreeing Jon his heir to his commanders, UNLESS we get that through a Weirwood vision from Bran OR the Blackfish?? reveals it to Jon (post resurrection).

      I hope we get a season 6 speculation post coming! Because we’re all practically unsullied now and WotW better do it before the leak of TWOW happens by some jerk.

        Quote  Reply

    194. sorry for the double post up there, I was trying to edit one and it reposted. Always something to learn. Makes getting older a little less dull.

      Earlier in this thread, like a day or two ago, it was mentioned that Rory McCann had never had a proper sendoff. You guys might as well give him a curtain call with apologies, maybe some time next week. Wouldn’t we all love rehashing some of the greater moments of the Arya-Hound road trip.

        Quote  Reply

    195. Thronetender,

      Somewhere, in the wilds of Scotland, a small boat pulls up to a remote island for the evening. A pigeon flutters down to a rock nearby, a bit of paper attached to its leg.

      He gently removes the note from the leather tubing, and as he begins to unfurl it, he catches the first words…

      “Dear Rory….still have that sword?”

      Expletives fill the air. Anticipation stirs within the hearts of fans, and fear within the hearts of chickens everywhere….

        Quote  Reply

    196. Regarding Eyegate: Sounds like Mel only saw Snow when she looked into Arya’s eyes. Brown eyes, blue eyes, green eyes… eyes you’ll shut forever….

        Quote  Reply

    197. TriLambdas,

      I dread the day TWOW comes out. I don’t know how I’ll avoid spoilers besides staying off the net & turning off the tv for a month. *glares at showankers*

        Quote  Reply

    198. taim,

      Until shown otherwise, I’ll consider any previous hints at Jon’s parentage as a proverbial ‘red herring’.

      EDIT: And as for me hoping for Jon being dead (and staying dead): Other than that opening some interesting and challenging possibilities, I guess I like the idea simply because so many are so pissed about the possibility. I’m like that.

        Quote  Reply

    199. Thronetender,

      AH okay. See for me if they keep him alive in the books but not the show, I would still be mad…. the show is really important to me.

      Ginevra,

      That’s what I was thinking…

      Sunfyre,

      OKay makes sense. I really hope the show and books stick to the same for this one… and hope he comes back. I cant stress that anymore.

        Quote  Reply

    200. JCDavis: Nope.You are not alone.I am one of the faithful few to both Show and Books.I love them both for what they are and while I do want the Show to be mostly book Canon, it can’t always do that and bring quality to the screen.So I am okay when there are changes.I am very excited to read Book 6, but I am equally excited to see what D & D have in store for us in Season 6.Even if we are only a team of two, it is better than being alone, no?

      Count me in on your team, too. I introduced myself to the show and books at almost the same time, and I love them both despite their flaws (and both do have some flaws). I actually can’t think of any other book–>screen adaptation that’s in the same position as this one, namely, both stuck on the same cliffhanger(s) at the same time! Certainly makes for some wild speculation!

        Quote  Reply

    201. Ginevra: If D&D kill off Jon permanently but GRRM brings him back, no matter which is released first, fans will be livid.

      If B&W kill off Jon and GRRM does not, then it will be because B&W are letting GRRM do the Jon stuff in his books “first.” At this point, they probably are working on the assumption that Winter will not come out before the Series ends. And, let’s face it: they basically have to work on that assumption at this point.

        Quote  Reply

    202. Wimsey: If B&W kill off Jon and GRRM does not, then it will be because B&W are letting GRRM do the Jon stuff in his books “first.” At this point, they probably are working on the assumption that Winter will not come out before the Series ends. And, let’s face it: they basically have to work on that assumption at this point.

      How sweet that you think D&D are that nice, but they would need to stop production on the entire series right now to keep from majorly spoiling the books.

      Luckily, we’ve been talking about this [show overtaking the books] with George for a long time, ever since we saw this could happen, and we know where things are heading. And so we’ll eventually, basically, meet up at pretty much the same place where George is going; there might be a few deviations along the route, but we’re heading towards the same destination. I kind of wish that there were some things we didn’t have to spoil, but we’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. The show must go on. . .and that’s what we’re going to do. –D&D, http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/03/game-of-thrones-tv-show-will-spoil-books

      So with Jon being Azor Ahai, the prince that was promised, and the hero who will save us all, cutting the hero from the ending could not possibly be “pretty much the same place where George is going.”

        Quote  Reply

    203. **SPOILER** (this was posted here several months ago)

      Watch around the 22 min mark. Kit is asked which character he’d like to be (other than Jon). He replies, “I’d like to be a Warg… I’d like to put myself into a Wolf” (which cracks up everyone).

      http://watchersonthewall.com/oxford-union-panel-with-dd-kit-harington-and-john-bradley/

      Producer Dan W responds,

      “Two words for you: Season 6… Season 6”.

      The laughter had died down, and he didn’t seem to be joking. What do you think that means??

        Quote  Reply

    204. KG: Mentioned 1000 times in the books and not once in the show. You cannot confuse the show and the books.

      Eye color is one of those rare flip-flops of written and cinematic story telling, where telling works much better than showing for a visual detail for two reasons. One is that books can call the reader’s attention to a character’s eye color simply by having the PoV character note them. However, you cannot make the audience look at actors eyes without using just flat-out annoying shots.

      The second reason is that words can “cheat.” Harry Potter had bright green eyes no matter the settings: in the daylight, or in the dark where his pupils would be huge and whatever light would distort his eye color. And, of course, it gets worse when filming: the strong colored lights frequently used on sets often distort the color of characters eyes.

      So, this really isn’t an angle worth pursuing on TV. Besides, you just know that one of the key actors would not be able to wear the contacts!

        Quote  Reply

    205. Jon Fooking Snow: The laughter had died down, and he didn’t seem to be joking. What do you think that means??

      It almost certainly means that they definitely are not going to have Jon Warg. He would not joke about it if they were going to do it because he would not want to give it away. And, of course, he hardly would spill the beans on what they are going to do. If they were going to do it, then he would have just let that slide completely.

      The other giveaway that they are not doing it is that they did nothing to set it up this year. B&W are very Chekhovian in their approach. The reason why supporting characters turn up later in the series than they do in the books is that they do not introduce supporting players before they affect the plot. Conversely, anything that has a big effect on the plot gets plenty of buildup first.

      So, the fact that we did not get a heavy buildup of Jon even just having wolf dreams (which is as close to warging as he comes in the books) means that they are not going to be firing that gun.

        Quote  Reply

    206. Ginevra: How sweet that you think D&D are that nice, but they would need to stop production on the entire series right now to keep from majorly spoiling the books

      Sorry, I was vague. It would not be “sweetness” but contractual obligation. The only reason they kill off Jon while GRRM does not is if GRRM got clauses in the contract stating that certain things cannot be done on the show before they are done in the books. Rowling supposedly got something like that for the Harry Potter films: there were certain “big things” that they could not put in the films before they came out in her books. However, she got her books done before the movies had to deal with things like what Harry’s scar really was or why Snape was, well, Snape: so, it never was relevant.

      The one thing that makes me really worry that something like this might be true is the fact that the HBO executives were complaining about GRRM not finishing his books last year. That struck me as odd: why would they even care? Heck, in some ways, the best of all scenarios is if GRRM never finishes: that gives them a “monopoly” on the product. Then I had the very chilling thought that maybe they really do have a reason to care!

        Quote  Reply

    207. Wimsey,

      You’re assuming Kit already read the scrips and knew about Jon’s fate. I doubt D&D even finished them at that time.

      And about the set up for Jon to warg, this is easily remedied with Bran telepathically stepping in.

      I don’t know why you’re so confident Jon isn’t wargging but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

        Quote  Reply

    208. Wimsey,

      I don’t think we need to be nervous. Rowling had lots of crazy clauses in her contracts (e.g., no digital versions of her books allowed via publishers) that most authors wouldn’t dream of. But the real evidence is in the quote I shared above: a pretty strong contradiction against any such clauses.

      They may be concerned because passing the books is hurting their relationship with George (he’s been a bit grumpy about the fact, within the last 18 months) and their relationship with the fans. I don’t think they want to spoil us if they can help it, but the show must go on, as they said.

        Quote  Reply

    209. Applauding Kit’s performance as Jon Snow! I’ve watched since the beginning and JS has been a favorite character all along — books & series. Hope Kit is back to continue as JS or AA!

        Quote  Reply

    210. Ginevra:
      Wimsey,

      They may be concerned because passing the books is hurting their relationship with George (he’s been a bit grumpy about the fact, within the last 18 months) and their relationship with the fans.I don’t think they want to spoil us if they can help it, but the show must go on, as they said.

      Honestly, I don’t think S6 is going to get truly spoilery until the end. If you look at S5, most of what was in the first eight episodes was either a mere shadow of something in the books, or completely made up. It was only from E9 that we really hit true book book moments with force. The hurricanes whipped up by the butterfly wings aren’t going to get any weaker, and as such I wouldn’t expect the content of S6 E01-E08 or so to be particularly true to TWOW. The big moments at the end of S6, though, will probably match up just like they do every year. The three early/mid-season exceptions to this are Jon’s potential resurrection, a death of Tommen, or the results of Cersei’s trial. Those should be more or less the same in each media.

      Just think how far off you would be if you read through ASOS, then watched S5, and then tried to guess what happens in AFFC/ADWD. You’d basically be right about Jon, Dany, Cersei, and Arya, but you’d be wrong about Tyrion, Sansa, Stannis, Brienne, Jaime, Varys, Littlefinger, and anything to do with the Ironborn, Dorne, or Aegon.

        Quote  Reply

    211. Wow, JS and RS were both such unrelatable and dull characters that the only interesting about then is their deaths. Hopefully now the show will focus on more interesting characters like Theon of house Greyjoy who is infinitely more realistic, interesting, and relatable.

        Quote  Reply

    212. Well, I’m still in denial, but I’ll say a few words about Kit anyway…

      Jon might be my favourite character in the book (up there with Ned and Arya). It’s amazing to think that D & D cast all the Stark children 6 years ago, knowing that those kids would have to carry the whole show one day. Kit probably had the biggest role and most on his shoulders, in terms of expectations.

      I enjoyed Kit’s performance since Season 1, but he didn’t always have much to do at first. And there were some flaws with his storyline, particularly the Season 2 stuff with Qhorin. However, ever since Season 3 or 4, Kit really stepped up his game, and by the end of Season 5 I loved TV Jon just as much as book Jon.

      I really hope this isn’t the end…

        Quote  Reply

    213. Very late to the party, but just in case this is, in fact, the final curtain call for Kit Harington (better safe than sorry) I just wanted to throw my appreciation out on the thread.

      Kit Harington just IS Jon Snow, has been since the beginning. Seeing him and Robb being so much older than their book counterparts took a few moments to get used to, but after that he really became the character for me. I remember his acting being decried quite a bit; he certainly didn’t have too many moments that called attention to his personality or thoughts, but that’s Jon Snow for you. Harington was always honest with how introspective he was, how unwilling he was to let anyone in on his thoughts and feelings. Jon Snow didn’t call attention to himself, so we weren’t always paying attention to the great performance Kit was delivering episode after episode. When he finally starts taking command of his storyline – starting in Season 4 and continuing throughout Season 5, I think people really started noticing how much Kit was in synch with the character, because he was starting to make his own decisions at that point.

      He started out as a kind of arrogant and very naive kid, and by the end of the fifth season he was one of the most commanding, mature and impressive leaders on the show. The fact that that transformation can be appreciated, without it being abrupt, really says a lot about Kit’s acting ability. Hope to R’hollor this isn’t the last we’ve seen of him.

      Hard to pick a favorite scene with him – he’s been great throughout. His speech about being a virgin to Sam, pretty much every scene he ever had with Ygritte, and all of his scenes this season. I think his scenes in Hardhome, where he impressively stepped up as a leader in front of possible foes, and then his convincing terror at seeing the Night King and his armor, constitute his best work on the series. Really incredible.

        Quote  Reply

    214. TriLambdas:

      The key thing here is that D&D have said that it is a 70 hour story,

      On ew.com three days ago:

      Weiss said. “The idea is to tell a unified story that’s 70-odd hours long and do that successfully.

      We are at 70-odd hours now

        Quote  Reply

    215. Chad Brick,

      I guess it all depends on what you consider to be a spoiler. I thought the Longclaw destroys White Walkers, Shireen burns, and Stannis gets defeated were all fairly epic spoilers, and we were just scratching the surface. Dany’s, Jon’s, Arya’s, and Tyrion’s journeys are the ones I care most about, and if the show is worth watching, as it definitely has been in all previous seasons, then these arcs will be significantly spoiled in every single episode of Season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    216. Ginevra,

      The other thing is that Season/Book 6 will probably be part one of the final “act”. We should expect to see some plotlines wrapped up and at least a coupke of major reveals.

        Quote  Reply

    217. Wimsey,

      I’m not certain what would be accomplished with such a clause regarding Jon only. Certainly there are much, much, MUCH bigger spoilers to be revealed, like the whole freaking endgame of the books. Jon’s parentage and supposed death are only one part of it. Why would it be more important than everything else that happens in the last two books so that it and only it deserves such contractual protection? I don’t buy it.

        Quote  Reply

    218. Chad Brick,

      You are thinking of this as a bunch of details, not as a story. Who Jon’s mother is has better have huge impacts on the story, not just the plot: and it certainly should not be some trivial detail. It will be less a gun and more of a howitzer.

        Quote  Reply

    219. Ginevra:
      Chad Brick,

      I guess it all depends on what you consider to be a spoiler. I thought the Longclaw destroys White Walkers, Shireen burns, and Stannis gets defeated were all fairly epic spoilers, and we were just scratching the surface. Dany’s, Jon’s, Arya’s, and Tyrion’s journeys are the ones I care most about, and if the show is worth watching, as it definitely has been in all previous seasons, then these arcs will be significantly spoiled in every single episode of Season 6.

      But that’s only because we have the benefit of having already read the books, and therefore know what is and is not a spoiler. As we watch E6, the overwhelming majority of what we will watch up to about E8 or so will not be from TWOW. We will be spoiled many times during those episodes, but only be able to speculate as to when we were spoiled and when we were not. As far as I know, this is a kind of first for any fandom. We may as well try to enjoy the adaptation spoiling the source, because there certainly isn’t any hiding from it unless you literally live in a cave. At least it will be a new game to play!

      I’d add another potential early/mid season spoiler to my list – if LF and the Vale invade the North in S6, it will be in the books as well. Given the S5 setup, it seems (almost) logical. LF has many reasons, the support from Cersei to eliminate the traitor Roose would enable him to mobilize the Vale, and it is the rational way for LF and Sansa to get back together so they can continue whatever their TWOW arc is (most likely, her whacking him at the end…may the savage giant fall!). The only issue with this is how does LF explain Sansa’s disappearance to the Vale Lords, but I think that is going to be swept right down the same plot-hole as the rest of the inconsistencies of this storyline have been dumped into.

        Quote  Reply

    220. Reading the books initially, I don’t think I even considered Jon Snow one of my five favorite characters – I usually picked Bran, Theon, Stannis, Sansa, and Jaime. But Jon became the best character in the show in season 5, which also makes me appreciate his book character even more.

        Quote  Reply

    221. JenniferH,

      I have no idea why some of y’all cannot let go of Jon Snow. He is dead. The actor and directors have confirmed this and they both stated that his character will not be returning. Kit himself even talked about the going away party they had for him on set once his last scene was done. Time to move on people.

        Quote  Reply

    222. Yes time to move on. Let some storylines go. God knows theres enough of them flying all over the place. Hate how feminine types want to make it into a romance type. He’s dead let it go.

        Quote  Reply

    223. Wimsey:
      Chad Brick,

      You are thinking of this as a bunch of details, not as a story.Who Jon’s mother is has better have huge impacts on the story, not just the plot: and it certainly should not be some trivial detail.It will be less a gun and more of a howitzer.

      I was including that in the resurrection, but in any case, it’s not much of a spoiler as everybody already knows.

        Quote  Reply

    224. Arthur:
      Wimsey,

      You’re assuming Kit already read the scrips and knew about Jon’s fate.I doubt D&D even finished them at that time.

      And about the set up for Jon to warg, this is easily remedied with Bran telepathically stepping in.

      I don’t know why you’re so confident Jon isn’t wargging but I guess we will just have to wait and see.

      I am also very confident that Jon isn’t going to warg, even with help from Bran. I keep seeing that you write “it just takes a bit of imagination”. You know what takes less imagination? Jon is at Castle Black, Mel is at Castle Black, Davos is at Castle Black and yes even Ghost (as far as we know) is at Castle Black.

      As has been written, in the book the last word that Jon says is “Ghost”, not “Oly”. Had D & D kept the show as the book, THEN I would think….hey he might warg, even though it hasn’t been shown even one time in the show that he ever thought about that for himself. It might be helpful to remember that JS considers himself a Bastard…only partly Stark and part something else…..why would he think that he could warg at all? He is/was the LC of the NW…he had so much else to think about and was pretty focused on that, to me.

      Pretty much 601 has to show something happening with Jon Snow. To take Bran from obscurity in Season 5 and bring it all up to speed in one show would take quite a bit of time. All the show has given us of Bran to date is being left underground with the Weir tree God learning stuff. The idea that all of a sudden he would be able to do what you propose, wouldn’t explain anything about Bran and his road to where he is going to be next season.

      A more reasonable explanation is that Ghost/Davos/Mel get him away to a place where Mel can do her magics on him to bring him back – and for me that would be that he would know his parentage and the story would move forward with that knowledge or that the other AA rebirth would happen. No imagination needed as all this HAS already been set up on the show.

      ………………

      On a different note….when I read the five books, fans had already been waiting quite a while for #6 and I felt confident that GRRM would finish the book and we would have it prior to where we sit right now. There is a part of me that is starting to get a sinking feeling that Jon Snow may be left as dead and we will see him burn at 601 on the show. Not something I want to happen, but I am also not a JS fanchick, I love the show, not the “Kit is SO hot he just can’t be dead” fan type, with no judgments for those who are – I hate being labeled as a feminine writer who doesn’t have a thought that doesn’t include “Marry me Jon Snow”. ARGH!!!!!

      ……………….

      Very last…..

      Wimsey?

      Why hast thou forsaken me? I left a post that I thought you might read and wanted your thoughts on it. But….I will take my toys to another room and play quietly. *whimpers* 😛 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    225. red viper:
      JCDavis,

      I’m with you guys! That makes three!!

      Actually, we are now FOUR strong…. 🙂

      Simeon
      Pigeon

      You and I. I understand that Pigeon makes no promises about not losing a stray marble or two before it is all said and done and I guess, I feel kinda the same. Four is better than alone….right?

        Quote  Reply

    226. Wimsey:
      Ginevra,

      The other thing is that Season/Book 6 will probably be part one of the final “act”. We should expect to see some plotlines wrapped up and at least a couple of major reveals.

      I completely agree. Though I’m not sure he’ll get there with his history of not getting as far along as he intends, but I think George’s design would be to have the climax of the series, or at least a great deal of the climax, be in this penultimate book. Throughout the entire series, we’ve been building toward winter: Winter is Coming, cold winds are rising, and all that jazz. So to me, “The Winds of Winter” sounds like the climax we’ve been building toward in the first five books, the ultimate battle of ice and fire, the revelation of Azor Ahai, the three-headed dragon, and the prince that was promised. And then “A Dream of Spring” would be wrapping up all of the post-battle details, settling the Game of Thrones, and what happens as we move forward.

        Quote  Reply

    227. A Man Grown:
      Eli,

      If you’re right, I will indeed move on. By not watching the show anymore.

      Why? With all the character arcs and two books and two seasons yet to find out all the answers, you would just leave? Why?

        Quote  Reply

    228. Deesensfan,

      Deesensfan,

      Must disagree. Theon made mistakes suffered the consequences, learned from them, grew as a person. Much more interesting and realistic. Jon? He was just always doing the right thing, perfect, never making mistakes, until he pissed off his brothers a bit too much and they killed him.

        Quote  Reply

    229. JCDavis,

      Because cutting Jon Snow’s arc off here would be horrendous storytelling. To go with a theme brought up by I believe Wimsey, it would kill the story, no matter how much plot is left.

        Quote  Reply

    230. To those asking why some of us can’t let go of the Jon thing, the explanation is simple. Unless D&D and GRRM are creating abstract work, Jon’s early demise does not make any sense. His story is not done. I think most Jon fans know in their heart of hearts that Jon will not survive the series, that he will go down at some point in the denouement of the story, I at least made peace with this years ago. I don’t expect an ounce of happiness for him. But you don’t build up a character like him and create a certain enigma around him and kill him without resolving at least some of the loose ends. Why the hell do they bring up R+L into the equation? What does it matter if Jon is dead for good? It does not. It only matters if Jon is still alive and not to claim titles because he wouldn’t care to sit the throne but it matters because he ‘knows nothing’ and his arc is to learn everything.

      Ned died but the major enigma surrounding his character survived with Jon. Ned died and it was sad but his death had meaning and was the catalyst for everything that happened next. Robb died and it was sad again but his death was necessary to ensure that the pack of wolves be torn apart and be set in different places of power. What does this Jon death bring at this particular moment? A massive confrontation between wildlings and Night’s Watch where the Watch would loose. Perhaps the bringing down of the Wall which means Westeros is screwed. Which is all fine but then you didn’t really need to tell people that Jon was not Ned’s and you didn’t need to hint that he may a Targ. If Jon is gone for good, hinting at his origin is a waste of screen time.

      And for those who read the books, well it is even harder to let it go.

      We have a freaking raven calling Jon a King. We have a certain royal decree that may or may not named him King. We have Varamyr showing us how to continue to live in your warging pet and again Varamyr thinking that Ghost is a second life fit for a King. We have Jon dreaming about the crypts at Winterfell and dreaming of holding a fiery sword. And we have the blue flower growing out from a chink in a wall of ice as one of Daeny’s visions.

      So if Jon is not resurrected at some point then GRRM wasted several pages building a mystery that has no reason for being there and while GRRM likes to break the mold, I never got the impression that he was going for an abstract work. He has a concrete story he likes to tell, and in my opinion, Jon’s role in that story is not done yet. So I can’t let it go and what is worse now I have the Frozen song stuck in my head.

        Quote  Reply

    231. Danny,

      This.

      JCDavis,

      You don’t see “Please don’t kill Jon Snow because he’s hot” on these posts..
      Yeah maybe on twitter for the casual viewers.

      As a Chick that find JS HOT, that’s far from the reason I want him around.

        Quote  Reply

    232. Danny,

      Thank you. Jon doesn’t need to have a happy ending. He needs to have an ending. Killing him halfway through his story isn’t an ending.

      It’s completely different from Ned and Robb. They had complete arcs and were doomed from the start. Jon’s arc isn’t nearly finished.

        Quote  Reply

    233. A Man Grown,

      Absolutely dead on.

      Jon Snow’s watch has ended only to give his true destiny a beautiful, terrible and burdensome beginning to see it through to the true end

        Quote  Reply

    234. Deesensfan:
      Danny,

      This.

      JCDavis,

      You don’t see “Please don’t kill Jon Snow because he’s hot” on these posts..
      Yeah maybe on twitter for the casual viewers.

      As a Chick that find JS HOT, that’s far from the reason I want him around.

      You must have missed the poster that accuses the “feminine posters” of just being fanchicks then…. and while those words are not used, there IS a sort of underlying chickfan sentiment on many posts.

      It reminds me of the fandom for LotR’s, they ended up having to create a special forum just for the ladies who wanted to swoon over the characters in the movie.

      And I am a chick as well….not all chicks think alike.

        Quote  Reply

    235. JCDavis,

      I did miss that poster. I am glad I did or else he/she would have gotten an annoyed response from me

      I mean of course he’s nice to look at … and theres nothing wrong with expressing that

      The boys here like Tyene for one reason only. This is worse cause shes completely useless! LOL

        Quote  Reply

    236. Deesensfan:
      JCDavis,

      The boys here like Tyene for one reason only. This is worse cause shes completely useless! LOL

      Because she’s a Westerosi metaphor for Aphrodite and we look forward to her equivalent judgement of Paris moment? That’s it, right guys?

        Quote  Reply

    237. Deesensfan: feminine

      I’m all man and far as I’m concerned she, as well as the whole Dorne story, can go even with their hot chicks. I think the whole Dorne mess was a nod to the fanchick. Thats why people are confused and deride it.

        Quote  Reply

    238. And now his watch is ended, and we get internet jokes like: “Why did Jon Snow line up at the Apple Store? For The Watch”. Ugh.

      Jon Snow was brave, honorable, and gives good head. All very admirable qualities in a man.

      Kit Harington had good hair, but he was terrible at lying. Nobody believed him. That’s not a good sign for an Emmy aspirant.

      See you at the other side, Jon Snow. As AA or JT or the Ice Dragon, whatevs. You’ll come back. It is known.

        Quote  Reply

    239. Kit was phenomenal in Hardhome, and that episode was 100% also written to give Jon Snow the oomph, so that his death would be extra traumatic. And there’s no question Jon Snow, the boy, is dead.

      There’s really no chance of disparity in the book/shows on this. If Jon Snow is important enough to bring back in the books, he’ll be back on the show, and D&D are not going to cast another new actor for “Jon Snow reborn.” That’s just really dumb. Frankly, even if Jon Snow comes back looking different in the books, the show will obviously still have Kit.

      I do sometimes thing that GRRM is the perfect troll, and that he built up all this importance for Jon as some mythical savior, only for the bottom line to be that no reborn hero is going to save the people of Westeros – this bickering pool of humanity has to save itself, and Jon is really dead.

      BUT GRRM has written a series with a lot of tragedy but he’s also not a complete nihilist. I don’t think the whole series will be hopeless, and while he’s an evil troll in subverting expectations, I don’t think he’s out to kill and destroy every single protagonist. After all, look at the proposed title of the last book.

        Quote  Reply

    240. Unless Kit’s contract with HBO regarding his participation in the Game of Thrones series has closed, ended, been made null and void or otherwise terminated, he will return. Curtain calls, goodbye parties, other off-season opportunities be damned…..nobody walks away from $300,000 an episode. When the news broke concerning actors pay raises before last season there was not one peep from agents, actors or HBO negating those articles. Kit’s protestations about salaries and contracts after the finale this year are silly. Again……nobody walks away from that much money. So, Kit will return, reborn from salt and smoke, with a flaming sword, standing against the evil beyond the Wall, in the Lands of Always Winter. Bran might be part of the resurrection also-there may not be a weirwood tree in Castle Black but there is a grove nearby where those who believed in the old gods took their vows. Jon’s blood is seeping into the ground…..Bran will know…….remember, it was Lady’s death that woke Bran from a coma. And besides, my other dog is a direwolf so I know some things.

        Quote  Reply

    241. Everybody with half a brain knows that Jon Snow will live, either because he is saved before he actually dies, or he is revived. Melisandre with her powers rides in just before he is assaulted. How convenient and obvious do you want it to be?

        Quote  Reply

    242. Fair enough getting a Curtain Call if his character has indeed passed through death

      Looking forward to the “Curtain Raise” when he is resurrected as Azor Ahai towards the end of season 6 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    243. Four words: He always come back (Season 6 or 7)
      Kit’s performance in GoT, was awesome, the evolution of Jon was amazing, epic ( Season 4-5) He always surprised me with his talent and charisma. I never understood the criticisms of his performance in GoT, for me was prejudices.
      I saw Testament Of Youth and Kit’s performance is spectacular, he’s a versatile, real and interesting actor who has a bright future in 7 Days In Hell (great reviews) Xavier Dolan’s The Death and Life of John F. Donovan, Brimstone and (OF COURSE) Game Of Thrones.

        Quote  Reply

    244. Marc,

      Why should he live/come back, though? And now please don’t tell me “he’s Azor Ahai”, because there’s at least three different other people who could be Azor Ahai, and their theories are all just as legit as Jon’s (these being Dany, Bran and Rhaegar Targaryen himself).

        Quote  Reply

    Jump to the Top

    Leave a Reply

    Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *