Benioff and Weiss address their silence on cut Game of Thrones characters

D and D and EThere have been some noticeable and controversial character cuts from Game of Thrones, changes that fans of the books grumble over and debate with passion.

In a new article, David Benioff and D.B. Weiss talk with Entertainment Weekly about their decision to not address these decisions with viewers.

The quotes from Benioff and Weiss don’t contain spoilers; however, fans should be aware that the text and the photo at the EW site may be considered a spoiler, so follow the link with caution.

When questioned about the lack of a particular character, D.B. Weiss told EW, “We reached that point that commenting individually on what is or is not in the show from the books is a prospect of diminishing returns.” He goes on to say, “Early on in the process, it was something we talked about a fair amount. [The change of strategy is] not out of any disrespect; the fact that people care enough about the books and the show to have arguments about it is something we have huge gratitude and respect for. I just don’t think there’s value in anything we have tosay about it. It opens a Pandora’s box of questions you could spend your whole life answering, and the net result is that what you said will probably make people less happy than if you hadn’t said anything.”

Apparently, Benioff feels that fans will understand better, that it’ll be “easier once everything is out and it’s 70 hours,” the complete seven seasons. He explains to EW, “People will complain about things because they don’t know what’s coming up ahead. He adds, “Not that people shouldn’t complain—that’s why God invented the Internet—but I think we’d be better able to have that argument later. Sometimes we’re going in a different order or telling a different story. We think the story will all make sense at the end. Otherwise it will be eight wasted years.”

From what Benioff is saying, he is asking for trust from the ASOIAF-reading crowd that the cuts or shifts in the story will make sense. But having faith is tough for some fans whose favorite characters have already been reduced or cut. That’s a necessity of adapting a huge book series, but I don’t think the debate over whether they were right to cut or keep a character will end anytime soon. People will hope that a cut beloved character is going to show up, until the bitter end.

 

191 responses

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    1. Yeah, the whole point is just : “wait till you have the whole picture guys !”

      Which is entirely correct and right.

      I dont take their words as anything more than just that in the end.

        Quote  Reply

    2. Well, at least it sounds like

      LS is in judging from the recaps of people that have seen episode two, although I think D&D only decided to add her after the outrage following last season’s ending.

        Quote  Reply

    3. Yung Wolf,

      Which recapS (insisting on the plural here). On my account the only possible 502 recap avaible is the one posted here earlier. I havent heard of any more.

        Quote  Reply

    4. Yung Wolf,

      I think I missed that, could you please point me to where I could find those episode 2 recaps that suggest that

      LS is in? I’ve seen a poster talking about what happens in episode 2 but I don’t remember anything about LS.

      Btw, should we really use spoiler codes in this article? I will though, just in case.

        Quote  Reply

    5. What is not being said there is that because things are being changed in terms of order and/or delayed, giving any kind of confirmation on a decision behind cutting or not cutting a character could provide information about future seasons they don’t want to divulge. So you’re left with the policy of simply not commenting on any of these changes in order to not paint yourself in a corner with possible spoilers.

      If they talked about why they cut Strong Belwas (for example), then the expectation would be there for them to talk about every character from the books we haven’t seen. And if they declined to talk about it, there would be immediate speculation that this is because we WILL be seeing that character in the future.

      I agree with them in saying it’s a losing proposition. Best to have those conversations once the entire series has aired and there is no more story left to reveal.

        Quote  Reply

    6. Arkash,

      There have been multiple reviews posted by different people for the episode so far.

      A few of them mentioned that during a Brienne/Pod scene in episode two that they can hear torturous screams and weird noises coming from the forests surrounding them.

        Quote  Reply

    7. Yung Wolf,

      Well, so far I’ve only seen one and only one. It has been discussed in lenght on Reddit, Afoiaf, and here (from where it originated) but so far I havent seen anyone else claiming having seen the screener as well.

        Quote  Reply

    8. Yung Wolf,

      But does that poster mention if Pod and Brienne acknowledge those sounds? Because otherwise it could be just D&D trolling with us. I hope this is true though

        Quote  Reply

    9. Yung Wolf,

      There has been one review posted here that multiple people are discussing. The review is completely unconfirmed and in doing a quick search on Twitter, it doesn’t appear as if any TV reviewers have received any screeners for Season 5 yet (and they usually make a big deal about getting them because they’re a coveted commodity).

      So maybe pump the brakes a little bit here. It might be true but you’re going by one unconfirmed report. Let’s wait to hear at least one other person say they’ve seen the 2nd episode. Because at this point, there isn’t.

        Quote  Reply

    10. Balerion The Cat,

      YES. Because I guarantee you someone will think it’s okay to start talking about future episode spoilers of things that weren’t even in the books.

      Like episode summaries that have allegedly been leaked.

      Cover everything. Brave new world for book readers. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    11. Yung Wolf,

      Yes, I’m sure D&D decided to write in a character they’d previously decided not to include because of the “outrage” of some book-readers.

        Quote  Reply

    12. This is fine. Folks, it is what it is. And in most cases, the cut characters don’t matter. Arianne Martell is one that stings, for specific reasons that make good sense.

      The cut of Strong Belwas was more because he’s kind of fun comic relief, but he’s also a very easily cuttable character. (I was hoping for a cameo in Season 5, which would work, but it’s not necessary.)

      Never been interested in seeing Coldhands. A silent sentry. Might as well have a walking tree. (I am Groot.)

      Overall, though, the decision not to address it makes more sense – they can’t continue to fight a rear-guard action from those of us who also love the books. The show is the show and the books are the books, and there’s a division there. And that’s just fine. And better for them to shut down the conversation entirely – it makes more sense this way.

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    13. It took only three posts for another delusional “I don’t care what anybody says but I believe LS is in and YOU CANT TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME!”

      Ugh.

        Quote  Reply

    14. Soo pretty much a non answer. again. Not sure why any breath is wasted asking anymore. Wait until the end of the series, and hopefully they will answer. PS~ I wish said Character WAS included.

        Quote  Reply

    15. Yung Wolf:
      The Family Name,

      I’m still skeptical, I’m just relaying what I’ve read in a few recaps posted.

      You guys must be a lot of fun at parties.

      It’s ok to relay, just make sure what you’re saying is accurate. Passing along what 1 person is saying is completely different than saying that this is information that has been reported independently by multiple people.

        Quote  Reply

    16. Sue the Fury,

      I know this is impossible, but it would be nice to have two sorts of spoiler codes, book spoilers/personal speculation and talks about episode summaries and other leaks. There are things I have read that I wish I hadn’t.
      Of course, having people post a warning when talking about leaks would be good too, but that doesn’t always happen, does it?

      But that will only start being a real problem next year when we all know nothing!

        Quote  Reply

    17. Apparently, Benioff feels that fans will understand better, that it’ll be “easier once everything is out and it’s 70 hours,

      To GRRM or anyone else whos hoping for more than 7 seasons … you are not getting it.

        Quote  Reply

    18. Stark Fan,

      No? I don’t remember alluding to that at all.

      But if the recaps are to be believed, then her addition in the show is a possibility. How else would those “sounds” be interpreted? It certainly sounds LS-esque, doesn’t it? Not to mention that she is extremely important to Brienne and Pod’s arc, and they become pointless if she isn’t in.

        Quote  Reply

    19. I’m consistently baffled by how some cuts *don’t* make sense to people. Arianne’s entire plot can easily be given to Ellaria without changing anything significant, why cast an additional actress when you’ve already cast a great one you barely used in S4? This is just logical decision making.

      The Greyjoy stuff is more of a wait and see. Presumably *some* of it is important enough to include in the show, perhaps during S6. Though I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the Greyjoy uncles were all just combined into Euron, or possibly replaced entirely by Asha (though this is admittedly a bit less likely). We have to assume the feeling was that adding both Dorne and the Iron Islands in one season was just too much.

      They know how it ends, so they are making far more informed decisions about adaptation than any of us can. I’m sure 10 years from now when the books are all out, we’ll be able to look back with the benefit of hindsight and point out where things might have gone better, but oh well. At least it got made as well as it has been. By all rights the adaptation should have been an utter catastrophe.

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    20. Shockmesane:
      The Greyjoy stuff is more of a wait and see. Presumably *some* of it is important enough to include in the show, perhaps during S6. We have to assume the feeling was that adding both Dorne and the Iron Islands in one season was just too much.

      It’s also the fact that their inclusion wouldn’t add up to anything in this season. It’s purely set-up. So, like the Tullys and Reeds, we might get to them later (or just Euron).

      (Before people start saying “it’s the same with Dorne”: no it isn’t. The death of Oberyn requires an immediate follow-up, that cannot be delayed.)

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    21. Yung Wolf: Not to mention that she is extremely important to Brienne and Pod’s arc, and they become pointless if she isn’t in.

      That is not true at all. Brienne’s “St. Oathkeeper, Patron of Vows to the Dead” means just as much with or without this.

      Shockmesane: Arianne’s entire plot can easily be given to Ellaria without changing anything significant, why cast an additional actress when you’ve already cast a great one you barely used in S4?

      Also, Arianne is not the sort of character that will win a lot of sympathy with many viewers. She is basically a sort of “mean girl” who flounders miserably at a game in which she is completely over her head. I suspect that they can give the plot elements to Ellaria and do a different story contributing to the same overall one that will work much better than did the original.

      Shockmesane: The Greyjoy stuff is more of a wait and see. Presumably *some* of it is important enough to include in the show, perhaps during S6

      That is tough to say without reading Winter: but given what has been set up so far, I would actually say that none of it is important enough for the show. (Unless there is some huge payoff as yet unforeseen, this is looking like stuff that should have been cut from the books, too.)

      Shockmesane: By all rights the adaptation should have been an utter catastrophe.

      Not necessarily. The good adaptations tend to focus on the general story and not get bogged down in myriad details. They also had the advantage of an original author who has written for TV: and he probably has ideas about how he would have done it had he been doing it for a TV series.

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    22. Did anybody watch Lost? They sound like Cuse & Lindelof going into the last season. I wasn’t crazy how that turned out.

      I think they’ll do better, but it’s still scary.

        Quote  Reply

    23. Yung Wolf,

      You are wrong. The whole point of Briennes arc is for her to meet back up with Jaime. that can happen differently without including LS, Riverrun Siege, Riverlands( So sick and tired of seeing the riverlands).

        Quote  Reply

    24. Shockmesane:
      I’m consistently baffled by how some cuts *don’t* make sense to people. Arianne’s entire plot can easily be given to Ellaria without changing anything significant.

      Without changing anything significant??

      Just one word: NIPPLES

        Quote  Reply

    25. King Tommen:
      What is not being said there is that because things are being changed in terms of order and/or delayed, giving any kind of confirmation on a decision behind cutting or not cutting a character could provide information about future seasons they don’t want to divulge. So you’re left with the policy of simply not commenting on any of these changes in order to not paint yourself in a corner with possible spoilers.

      If they talked about why they cut Strong Belwas (for example), then the expectation would be there for them to talk about every character from the books we haven’t seen. And if they declined to talk about it, there would be immediate speculation that this is because we WILL be seeing that character in the future.

      I agree with them in saying it’s a losing proposition. Best to have those conversations once the entire series has aired and there is no more story left to reveal.

      This makes me mad.. or in any case, it gives me grief. Because we know that the show will end before the books, so even though your post makes sense for the show, it doesn’t make sense for the books. Characters cut from the show, might still have important roles to play in order to set the pieces for the final game in the books, situations that GRRM already started and can’t hack off like D&D did.. Hence, after the show ends, D&D can answer questions about why which character was cut in their eyes, but said questions could potentially still spoil stuff for aDoS, heck even tWoW if you’re a pessimist.. Hope that makes sense:
      – Show ends, D&D are willing to answer questions about cut characters.
      – Said answers on why they cut them can spoil bookstuff (obviously minor since we would know the endgame, but definitely spoiling the last bits and pieces for bookfans).

      In effect, after the show is done, a fan could go up to Benioff and ask: “What about Coldhands man! Why did you cut him?”, to which Benioff could reply with an indepth answer, while Coldhands may still be a mystery until ADOS.. This makes a bit more sadder then I was when I realized GRRM wasn’t going to finish the books before the show.

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    26. Al Swearengen:
      And yet we got Ros and Myranda.

      You act like Myranda was being followed for scenes after scenes. That woman had less words than what I’m typing right now. Get out of here with than purist business.

        Quote  Reply

    27. Stark Fan,

      We’re all aware that certain storylines can be changed at will and end up at the same point.

      But what will they do? Run around in the Riverlands the entire season and nonchalantly return to King’s Landing whenever? Do they just roam around aimlessly the whole time?

      C’mon, son.

        Quote  Reply

    28. Dutch maester,

      If Oberyn’s death requires immediate follow-up then LSH’s creation should’ve happened a long time ago too. I don’t think we’re likely to see her. In this day and age it’s hard to keep anything a secret so if we do see her I think it will be a huge & welcome surprise to all of us.

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    29. That “particular character” is definitely in.

      There’s not only the episode 2 report to go by, there’s also the fact episode 3 is supposed to have a WTF ending and this woman, a dead ringer for Michelle Fairley, has been cast specifically for this episode http://imgur.com/PDMBYuE Sadly, we get the character but we don’t get Michelle Fairley, at least not this season anyway.

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    30. I really want to see the Kingsmoot. That was such an awesome scene in the books. Although Yara is a big disappointment as Asha. Not the actor but what she was given to work with (I did enjoy her first meeting with Theon). Asha’s one of my top fav characters so I’d love to see her actually get some good scenes.

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    31. Hoyti Von Totiy,

      The pre production started in 2008. So it will be 9 years. Martin made it clear on his blog that D&D hasn’t decided yet when to finish the series. Also HBO said they will have talks to them. And more important than anything, if you follow D&D interviews in the last two years, it seems that they want 8-9 seasons. They said also seven, but it was under the context that HBO wanted 7 seasons, so running a tv show for 7 seasons on HBO is still a huge achievement(hbo never had more than 7 seasons for a show). But now that HBO wants more than 7 seasons, be sure that D&D are super excited to end the show in 8-9 seasons.

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    32. Kath6152,

      Please don’t make me relive that. I am one of the few who stuck with that show to the end hoping that it would all somehow get better and everything would make sense. By the end the plot had more holes in it than a fly screen. This is not the same. Game of Thrones is based of a template. Changes are made and things are moved, added or cut, but the basic story is predetermined. Lost was clearly made up blindly as they went along (even if the writers claimed otherwise at every opportunity), anyone who saw it through could see that.

        Quote  Reply

    33. Larin,

      They have been pretty clear in interviews that 7 seasons is their ideal goal, but they haven’t ruled out the possibility of 8… But they have said many many times that 7 is their goal.

        Quote  Reply

    34. Larin:
      Hoyti Von Totiy,

      The pre production started in 2008. So it will be 9 years. Martin made it clear on his blog that D&D hasn’t decided yet when to finish the series. Also HBO said they will have talks to them. And more important than anything, if you follow D&D interviews in the last two years, it seems that they want 8-9 seasons. They said also seven, but it was under the context that HBO wanted 7 seasons, so running a tv show for 7 seasons on HBO is still a huge achievement(hbo never had more than 7 seasons for a show). But now that HBO wants more than 7 seasons, be sure that D&D are super excited to end the show in 8-9 seasons.

      I have no problems with 8-9 or heck even 10 seasons as long as they are quality and not based on Dorne/Pyke/Mereen filler.

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    35. Balerion The Cat:
      Yung Wolf,

      In the scientific guess at progress thread just over half way down is a post from Maggie (March 24, 2015 at 10:11 pm) with an apparent screener review of ep 2. The (I think 6th) para that begins “Later, Littlefinger sends his guards…” has the bit about

      Brienne and (presumably) Pod hearing sounds in a forest.

      Most of those who commented seemed to think it at least fairly legit and one said something like if they are trolling it’s got to be the best piece of trolling ever. I think this is the one people are talking about that you might have missed?

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    36. AKladybird,

      I don’t understand the love for the kingsmoot. The only thing I remember about it was that it was the most torturous boring experience in all of AFFC (and I am one of the few who loves that book)

        Quote  Reply

    37. Lollius Palicanus:
      I WANT MY GREYJOYS!

      Fuck the greyjoys! Nobody cares about them. That goes for ASOIAF/Game Of Thrones and the audience. Sure they will plot and scheme but they will fail as always.
      One; because they are not smart.
      Two; they are selfish
      Three; they are losers and will always be losers
      They contribute nothing to the story for George besides slowing his process to the main story because he has no idea what the fuck to do with them but he just felt like he needed to show these island assholes to the readers because of Theon is important.

        Quote  Reply

    38. I get their point but to not at least address the

      Stoneheart

      thing is probably doing more harm than good at this point. A lot of disappointment could have been avoided last season if they had just told fans the character was cut.

        Quote  Reply

    39. AKladybird,

      Agreed, but I’m not saying it’s likely we’ll see her. I was talking about pushing back the Greyjoy story (or at least a version of it with fewer characters) to season 6.

        Quote  Reply

    40. King Stannis:

      Two; they are selfish
      Three; they are losers and will always be losers

      I read that as two; they are shellfish and three; they are lobsters. I think it’s time to go and lie down now, it’s been a long day….

      EDIT: might be useful in a war though, some people are violently allergic to shellfish and lobster claws could give you quite a pinch ;O)

        Quote  Reply

    41. Matt S,

      Then they run the risk of admitting that her storyline is not important enough which would be a book “spoiler” in a way. Their kinda stuck in that regard

        Quote  Reply

    42. Honestly, I think Brienne’s storyline is taking a completely different route. Instead of

      meeting Stoneheart, her plot will probably head towards a confrontation with Stannis, since we know she will head to the North and he plans to go South. Her vengeful feelings towards him are both true to the books and narratively cohesive.

      It would make sense, and satisfyingly justify her journey in the absence of “that character”.

      I believe that narrative cohesion could also be applied to Sansa

      if she would, for example, take revenge on Theon for the deaths of Bran and Rickon, was she to be given some of the vengeful traits of Stoneheart.

        Quote  Reply

    43. I really don’t understand the obsession over

      Lady Stoneheart. She’s only in like two chapters in the books. I mean don’t get me wrong, Zombie-Cat is badass and interesting but her full significance is not even fully understood yet. Despite this people are losing their minds over the fact that she’s cut from the show or that she hasn’t appeared yet. If she appeared at the end of Season 3 or 4 her inclusion would have served for superficial shock value with little to no pay off. What would have been her role for Season 4, 5 and even 6 if she appeared in S3? If they choose to include her, it makes way more sense to introduce her near the endgame, i.e. later this season or Season 6. Also, I think it’s hilarious that people hear rumors of voices in the forest and immediately jump to ‘STONEHEART!’

      Another argument for her inclusion is that she is VITAL to Brienne’s storyline. Is she really? How do we even know yet? That storyline hasn’t gone anywhere yet! Again, please remember that LSH has only had one chapter with Brienne.

      For all the hate that D&D get, I think they are really great at carefully telling a story that makes sense within the medium while including most of the biggest moments and characters of the book series. If LSH is included in the show, it will make sense within the narrative they have constructed, and if she isn’t it’s because the story they are telling doesn’t need a Lady Stoneheart.

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    44. Yung Wolf,

      I really don’t see why people are letting themselves get so hyped for Stoneheart based on this. Even if it’s true, it just implies the Brotherhood is around in the forest doing bad things. Which most people seemed to think would still happen to some degree, even if Stoneheart was cut. Even when they cut things, they try to keep a similar tone, and so if we see the Brotherhood again, they’re going to be going for that creepy tone, even if Stoneheart is not included.

        Quote  Reply

    45. Colty,

      This. All of this. I could kiss you.

      HelloThere,

      The Kingsmoot is a cool set-piece… when it actually happens, but first there are three chapters of completely unnecessary setup, especially the first one, Aeron’s “The Prophet.” Then we get to see essentially the same thing again —a Greyjoy being called into a Kingsmoot— in the following two chapters, and it’s only in the fourth (out of five!) Iron Islands chapter that the story actually gets started and the Kingsmoot takes place. The Kingsmoot should’ve been an introduction, and we should’ve seen it from Asha’s perspective, not Aeron’s —the same can be said of Dorne; it should’ve had less set-up and it should’ve been told from a single point of view.

        Quote  Reply

    46. Yung Wolf:
      Stark Fan,

      No? I don’t remember alluding to that at all.

      But if the recaps are to be believed, then her addition in the show is a possibility. How else would those “sounds” be interpreted? It certainly sounds LS-esque, doesn’t it? Not to mention that she is extremely important to Brienne and Pod’s arc, and they become pointless if she isn’t in.

      She is important in Jaime’s arc too, presumably. It depends on TWOW of course, but it is hard to see how the upcoming interaction between Brienne, Jamie and her do not alter or end lives.

        Quote  Reply

    47. HelloThere,

      You should listen to the Vassals of Kingsgrave Podcast reading of that chapter. I loved it before I heard their reading but they really make it come alive. I love Asha’s character, what she proposed made sense and would’ve benefited the people the most. But it just went against what most of the iron born believed in. Another example of the culture wanting a strong man to lead them to conquest, despite him being incredibly dumb (V) or incredibly reckless (E). The whole scene introduced the d-horn too. Who knows that thing will actually do. It was very exciting in my opinion.

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    48. King Stannis: You act like Myranda was being followed for scenes after scenes. That woman had less words than what I’m typing right now. Get out of here with than purist business.

      So, are you the arbiter of what can and cannot be said? I’m not purist by any stretch of the imagination. I didn’t mind Ros or Myranda (actually, I really liked Ros), and I wasn’t tearing out my hair a certain character didn’t appear, last season, and really couldn’t give a flying fuck if that does ever does, at this point, but people are entitled to their opinions. Yes, sometimes I think people go overboard freaking out abut every little thing that is cut or different, but to say, “get out of here with that purist business” is a bit much, imo.

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    49. Luka Nieto,

      I disagree. If you really look at Aeron’s character, you can see the hints of abuse (by E) and that he relied on this god of his for so much, who ultimately fails him. Reminded me of the people who “find god” in jail. It really goes along with the religious themes in the book. You can put all the faith you want in your god(s) but you’ll still be screwed like everyone else.

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    50. Lulu’s Mum: I read that as two; they are shellfish and three; they are lobsters. I think it’s time to go and lie down now, it’s been a long day….

      EDIT: might be useful in a war though, some people are violently allergic to shellfish and lobster claws could give you quite a pinch ;O)

      Ah.. I sea what you are spraying. Its been a long day but I am onboard with you.
      Perhaps be more pacific about the war next time. So water you think it’s going to flopping with the greyjoys?

        Quote  Reply

    51. Luka Nieto,

      GRRM said there’s a big plot twist in the next Aeron chapter, so keep reading. I love all his characters. I can take interesting things away from what I’ve read on all of them.

        Quote  Reply

    52. Colty, others whom I can’t remember,

      I agree with your basic assessment of the situation, but must question one argument, and that is the “We Don’t Know The Whole Story Yet, So We Cannot Truly Judge The Show’s Decisions” argument.

      I remember being in the “middle” stages of various other fantasy/sci-fi/geek epics in the past 15 years (SW Prequels, Matrix Sequels, LOTR), all of which had major early success, followed by inevitable backlash as things didn’t go the way some fans thought they should have. It seemed that a number of people have a mindset that because we hadn’t seen Matrix: Revolutions, that we couldn’t possibly comprehend the Wachowski’s full genius, and thus couldn’t render a valid opinion on Matrix: Reloaded. So many arguments back then would just be shut down by “Wait and See!!! You don’t know!! It’ll ALLLLL make sense!”

      Thing is, though, nobody cares about the guy that thoughtfully waits two years and then issues a 42 page dissertation on the Real Secrets of The Star Wars Prequels. Or, I guess, a 15 minute you tube thing or whatever the kids do these days. The time to discuss is now, not later.

      All of which is to say that D&D’s comments seem like a real cop out, to me. As if they’re going to be talking in depth about GOT, and arguing the merits of their various decisions, for years after the show is done, when they’ll ostensibly be “Better able to have that argument…” They can just clam up, if they choose, there will be no pressure-of-the-moment once the show’s done. I”m not saying they are obligated to defend every decision to everyone, only that it’s lame to say things like, “People will complain about things because they don’t know what’s coming up ahead.”

      That gives people who certainly need any more encouragement fodder to dump on anyone who dares voice a complaint or share a take on a turn the show takes with a smug, “Well, we don’t know what’s coming up, and D&D do, so blahblahblah…”

      I honestly read far too much of that around these parts as it is.

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    53. The Family Name:
      It took only three posts for another delusional “I don’t care what anybody says but I believe LS is in and YOU CANT TAKE THAT AWAY FROM ME!”

      Ugh.

      the denial is strong. People can’t cope with the fact that LS is strong and they cling to vague rumors/trolls to feed their denial

        Quote  Reply

    54. Colty,

      Because if a god is taking interest in her, something big is bound to happen. At least that’s how I see it. I also find her character to be one of the darkest ones in the books and by far one of my favorite. I assume this is how most other LS enthusiasts feel about her.

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    55. Yung Wolf: Do they just roam around aimlessly the whole time?

      Pretty much! This was a part of Crows that really could have done with some heavy editing. My guess is that B&W are doing something similar to what many book editors would have recommended.

      AKladybird: I really want to see the Kingsmoot. That was such an awesome scene in the books.

      HelloThere: I don’t understand the love for the kingsmoot.

      I must agree with HelloThere: the Kingsmoot was quite tedious, and it felt very out-of-place in the narrative. Insofar as I could tell from this stuff, it was supposed to be about Asha (Yara) overreaching to become Queen of the Ironborn. However, after that failed, well, then what? That should have been the zenith of her storyline, and instead it was (I think) in the middle. Otherwise, it just seemed to be empty plot-for-the-sake-of-plot, with nothing really adding up into story.

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    56. Found this video. Not sure if it’s been posted before but it’s the only video I have been able to find that includes Michael McElhatton. He has an interesting comment.

      Sounds like something bad might be happening to Sansa besides the fact that she is going to be around Ramsay. Or maybe he is talking about fArya.

        Quote  Reply

    57. What do people expect?? It would be a book spoiler if David and Dan say “this character is cut from the series because he/she dies in the 6th book and did nothing significant”. It would be a show spoiler if they say “this character is not cut from the series, his/her surprise appearance will happen in episode X”. Either way, people would complain because it spoil them!

      They don’t have to justify their decisions, wait and see. And if you don’t like their decisions, then don’t watch the show and move on…

        Quote  Reply

    58. One of Roose Bolton’s leeches,

      Ian Beattie: “I promise the viewers season 5 is gonna be the best season yet by far.”
      Ian Beattie 2 seconds later: “I don’t read the scripts. I do not want to know what happens.”

      Somehow this doesn’t really allign lol

        Quote  Reply

    59. Wimsey,

      …”the Kingsmoot was quite tedious, and it felt very out-of-place in the narrative. Insofar as I could tell from this stuff, it was supposed to be about Asha (Yara) overreaching to become Queen of the Ironborn. However, after that failed, well, then what? That should have been the zenith of her storyline, and instead it was (I think) in the middle. Otherwise, it just seemed to be empty plot-for-the-sake-of-plot, with nothing really adding up into story.”

      Really? V sailing toward Dany with a d-horn that we don’t know what will do is not a plot? Asha/Yara with king S also provides viewpoints. Have you read tWoW sample chapters?

        Quote  Reply

    60. Stark Fan,

      I know, that’s what makes it so exciting. We have no idea what it really might do. We only see the Targ’s and Velaryon’s after the doom. We don’t know what they might have done in Valyria.

        Quote  Reply

    61. I always assumed that they weren’t commenting on cut characters just in case they decided to incorporate them later on. Obviously some of them are pretty certainly out at this point, but not saying anything leaves the door open for them if they change their mind. There were a few different characters they set up for and didn’t end up including, or were ambiguous about early on and then did. By this point probably all of the decisions are made about any additional characters to be added, but seems like a moot point for them to bring up now why they didn’t include Strong Belwas, etc. By the time the show is over, I doubt anyone will care much about hearing their reasoning, it’ll probably have become clear from the final season anyway.

      This though:

      “Not that people shouldn’t complain—that’s why God invented the Internet

      Thanks Benioff!

        Quote  Reply

    62. It’s understandable that cuts have to be made and there’s really no point in criticizing now when we don’t even know where most things are going in the books.

      Also, for what it’s worth, I have a friend/acquaintance who gets the screeners every year and he got them early today. Anyway, I sent him the dialogue from the Brienne scene reported yesterday, and he confirmed it’s legit. I tried to ask him about the forest scene and about the ending but he refuses to tell me anything, so I’m not much help here I’m afraid.

        Quote  Reply

    63. Sooooooooooo
      Im guessing this means definately no Arianne???!!?!
      does this mean no fAegon??!?
      does this mean fAegon actually isnt that important in the final outcome to Dany/series’ storyline??!!!?
      Soo all this definately confirms that Arianne will die.

        Quote  Reply

    64. These boards are getting increasingly contentious, just as I imagined, but I can’t quit you. Two thoughts:

      – There is nothing that D&D could say to appease purists. There will always be a ‘but what if-‘ or a ‘but greyworm and missandei’ or a ‘just add more seasons!’. Not only that, but D&D cannot spoil what they know about future books, which is pretty much everything D&D are the only people privy to most of the characters’ arcs and endings, so for now there is little we can or should do besides trust their decisions based on the endgame.

      That supposed Episode 2 Synopsis is completely ridiculous BAIT. If you really believe that Brienne of Tarth is going to have a scary LOTR/beauty&beast moment in the woods where she says ‘Something’s not right!’ and runs away from a scream, then I have a bridge to sell you. Reddit has satisfactorily dissected the ridiculousness if you head over and take a look.

        Quote  Reply

    65. AKladybird: Really? V sailing toward Dany with a d-horn that we don’t know what will do is not a plot?

      It is plot-for-the-sake-of-plot rather than plot-for-the-sake-of-character-development-and-story.

      Ditto that for what the Iron Born contribute to the WoW chapters. If Daeny

      turns up riding Drogon at the head of Khal Jumbo’s khalasar to turn the tide of the battle, nobody is going to ask: “Gee, how did they win without a reinforcing marine force?

      Similarly, if Daeny

      tames her dragons on her own, then nobody is going to ask: “gee, shouldn’t they have used some Deus ex Machina device instead?”

      Hobochic: Im guessing this means definately no Arianne???!!?!

      Yes. However, her story-role probably will be subsumed by Ellaria and Tyrstane, so what counts will be there.

      Hobochic: does this mean no fAegon??!?

      Not necessarily: under any circumstance, YG was not going to be added until Season 6. He simply did not contribute much to the Crows/Dragons plot.

      Hobochic: does this mean fAegon actually isnt that important in the final outcome to Dany/series’ storyline??!!!?

      This in no way follows from any decisions regarding Arianne.

      Hobochic: Soo all this definately confirms that Arianne will die.

      In absolutely no way does it do that. It does strongly corroborate what some people have been suggesting since 2005: Arianne is herself not very important for telling the story.

        Quote  Reply

    66. Like most, I have a lot of reservations about that Ep 2 summary, however if it DOES turn out to be true,

      the strange sounds coming from the woods could just as easily be Nymeria and her pack of wolves out hunting and killing, couldn’t it? Re-introducing that element would be a way to establish Arya’s warg ability, which may come in handy later in the series if she does end up losing her sight and needs a way to earn it back…

      Just a thought.

        Quote  Reply

    67. People are in denial about lsh being cut and people are equally in denial about her possibly being in. There is no evidence of either option we will not know if she is cut until the final episode airs. We know strong belwas and arianne are cut that’s about it.

        Quote  Reply

    68. I think that is more than fair. Given the amount of work they have to do, it would be completely insane to try to justify each and every decision they make, in public and trying to engage people over the internet in a “sane and rational discussion”. This site itself shows from time to time that such a thing is not possible.

      So good for them, stick to your guns fellas!

        Quote  Reply

    69. Yung Wolf,

      I don’t think Brienne will return to KL at all. If there is to be a reunion of sorts, just talking show here, Jaime has to end up north.
      I like Brienne but she has made more “vows” then anyone else in this series and has yet to make good on any of them. Tenacity and endurance is great but she went from one camp (Renly) to another (Catelyn) to another (Jaime) and isn’t fairing well. D&D aren’t going to let her, an very popular character who bucks traditional tropes, wander aimlessly and not get at least one victory (or vow) under her belt. I think they have actually made her look kind of stupid (seriously, your in KL with the girl your suppose to “rescue” and make good on your vow and you don’t even talk to her?).
      She’ll stay north for the long haul. In my humble opinion, of course.

        Quote  Reply

    70. Wait…Al Gore is God? Talk about spoiler.

      I will always be disappointed that certain characters didn’t make the train. The addition of extra show-only characters just makes it more baffling. Their excuses that it just didn’t work for television or they didn’t have room doesn’t jive considering some of the other stuff they added. They completely glossed over Robb’s entire campaign and his bannermen for what? A Talisa ass shot?

      There will be another adaptation some day. Might not be in our lifetime, but there will be another one. And I guarantee fan favorites will be crammed into that one. They’ll add Coldhands scenes. Victarion will toss twice, no!, three times as many people overboard. “Who’s Ros?”

        Quote  Reply

    71. My $200 to your $100 bet for LS not being in the show ever is always available. Easy $100 for me to win from whoever wants it. Multiple takers. That’s how confident I am ever since the S4 finale.

        Quote  Reply

    72. “Yeah, the character’s dead.” – Michelle Fairley

      “…to bring back Michelle Fairley, one of the greatest actresses around, to be a zombie for a little while – and just kill people? It is really sort of, what are we doing with that? How does it play into the whole story in a way that we’re really going to like?” – Alex Graves

      “LSH is in the show, I don’t care what anyone says!” -Random Dude on the Internet

        Quote  Reply

    73. Ironborn:
      King Stannis,

      Yeah. I’m sure George gave 4 POVs for the Greyjoys because they are “filler” and add nothing to the story. That applies to Dorne as well.

      You’re right, I’m sorry.
      I suppose George needs them to get smacked around a few more times, It’s quite amusing actually. I hope is Stannis that gets to do it again and make them tuck tail back to the island.

        Quote  Reply

    74. The Family Name,

      1) Michelle is correct. Lady Stoneheart is “dead”.
      2) Alex Graves knows nothing past what he is assigned to direct. It’s the same with every director on the show. They aren’t involved in the writing process AT ALL, so he has no insight into her inclusion.
      3) D&D have never said outright that she is cut from the show, which doesn’t mean anything definitive either way but it is why so many people are still hopeful. IMO I think she could appear but it would be late endgame of the series

        Quote  Reply

    75. Larin,

      Then why are D&D STILL saying — as of this article — 7 seasons and 70 episodes, if they’re supposedly so super excited to do 8 or 9 seasons?

      George has been claiming that there will likely be more than seven seasons consistently for years now. Last year, he was claiming that books 4 and 5 would probably take 3 seasons. We now know that they will mostly be covered this season. He’s pretty clearly been deluding himself into believing that he would have more time to finish the books before his plotlines get spoiled by the show. But from the tone of his recent interviews, the reality seems to finally be setting in.

      They’re writing the scripts for season 6 right now. The decision of how many more seasons to make has to have been made by now. With potentially only 20 more hours to go, they have to be working towards their ending. Whether there are 2, 3, 4 or more seasons is something they NEED to know by now, or they’ll end up with either a very rushed or very stretched our remainder, if the answer changes.

      I think that at this point, the most we can hope for is an extended 7th season, split into two, like on other premium cable shows. I think that by the end of this season, they’ll announce whether there will be more than that. Because by then, the scripts will be done, and they’ll be working on pre-production for season 6. Whether or not they actually announce it, they’ll surely know the truth.

      As to LSH, I don’t think there is a chance in hell, they will cast anyone besides Michelle in that role, if they were to ever bring her (back) into the show. From their ultimate respect for the actress, there is no way. It would be extremely unprofessional, and would be seen as an insult to the actress.

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    76. I think it’s quite simplistic to assume that the Greyjoys are only important for the dragon horn as dragon-controlling device and Victarion’s fleet as an ace in the hole for the battle of Meereen. Victarion’s relation with Moqorro, Euron’s obvious link to the three-eyed crow, Aeron’s link to quite a different common people. George’s work is not all about geopolitics and major battles.
      I’m quite sure that the Greyjoys will play an important role on different symbolic levels, not just be ‘smacked around’. For instance, with Daenerys apparently resolutely choosing for ‘Fire and Blood’ at the end of ADWD, the horn symbolizes yet another possibility for The Dragon to be manipulated, which Dany will probably not immediately understand (I suspect Moqorro and the faith of the Red God will play an immensely important role in Dany’s storyline, and will try to use her for their goals).

        Quote  Reply

    77. Mursk:
      They completely glossed over Robb’s entire campaign and his bannermen for what? A Talisa ass shot?

      There will be another adaptation some day. Might not be in our lifetime, but there will be another one. And I guarantee fan favorites will be crammed into that one. They’ll add Coldhands scenes. Victarion will toss twice, no!, three times as many people overboard. “Who’s Ros?”

      Yeah, that scene with Talisa was the entire reason that we didn’t get more tedious war council scenes.

      Also, that adaptation a) is never going to happen and b) would be complete shite.

        Quote  Reply

    78. King Stannis,

      I bow down to you Stannis, King of Puns :O) Might try some later. We shell sea. (Sorry that’s not a patch on your sterling work but I had to do it very quickly!)

        Quote  Reply

    79. vlad:
      Yeah, sorry…. they’ve lost my trust a couple of years ago and there’s no way they’re getting it back.

      I’m trusting D&D way more than I trust GRRM. GRRM is a great writer who writes characters maybe a little better than the showrunners but I don’t believe his books will ever come to a satisfying conclusion (if he finishes them at all). D&D are writing towards an endgame instead of constant expanding.

        Quote  Reply

    80. sati,

      What, HBO are going to do a remake of their biggest show ever? Why the hell would they do that. Maybe another company would attempt it, but HBO are definitely never going to sell the rights either.

        Quote  Reply

    81. sati,

      India just does whatever the fuck they want… They copy shit regardless of copyright laws….
      Just look up “Hari Puttar” ( I believe some Harry Potter knock off)

        Quote  Reply

    82. HelloThere,

      I find this very hard to believe. They have HBO in India, but its being made by Sony TV?

      I also find it hard to believe that this isn’t bigger news. Most of the articles about it go back to the same source, and I would have thought that HBO, Time Warner or GRRM, would have at least have mentioned that this was happening.

      Also, there’s this:

      Says a source, “Set in 1857, the story revolves around the politics the women of a palace indulge in. It will be a work of fiction and will be one of the most expensive shows on the small screen so far. Anita Hassanandani is also a part of the show.”

      from here; http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/tv/news/hindi/Sakshi-Tanwar-in-a-period-drama/articleshow/46664097.cms

      Set in 1857? All about women in a palace? Doesn’t sound much like Game of Thrones to me. I think it’s far more likely that this is a show somewhat inspired by Game of Thrones.

      So I’m still confident in saying that yeah, there’s never going to be another adaptation.

        Quote  Reply

    83. The show is not an adaptation . The show is canon !

      Books will never be completed , and the only version of the story will be the show.

      Book purists call that a nightmare , I called it a poetic justice.

      In D&D we trust! 😀

        Quote  Reply

    84. Yivo,

      Yea, Im sure, they will change it enough that its not copyright infringement. I just can’t wait to see the Indian Soap version of GOT…

      its all going to be screaming and scheming mother-in-laws…. thats all indian soaps are.

        Quote  Reply

    85. HBO will never do another Game Of Thrones reboot (or sell the rights for someone else to do it) for at least 50 years (probably never). However, such a thing would change the books probably even more.

      HelloThere:

      Yivo,
      its all going to be screaming and scheming mother-in-laws…. thats all indian soaps are.

      Looks like they are gonna nail (book!)Cersei.

        Quote  Reply

    86. Dragonslayer/Yivo,

      Regarding future adaptations of ASOIAF, you two are very confidently tossing around words like “Never”.

      Sorry, but we are on our third Batman iteration and third Spiderman in the last couple decades. You’d have to be awfully short-sighted and myopic to truly believe their could never be another adaptation of Game of Thrones.

      Today’s Most-expensive-show-ever-made, nothing-could-possibly-top-this, is tomorrow’s (or thirty years from now’s) Quaint, fuzzy-looking (once we invent 5-D TV, or Super-Deluxe-HD) thing that absolutely MUST be re-made and re-cast and, most importantly, re-SOLD.

      I know it seems right now like this is the definitive, be-all, end-all version, but it won’t feel that way forever.

        Quote  Reply

    87. Somewhat may enlighten me if I’m missing something, but why should I care if Game of Thrones characters are “cut” now that Theon’s lost the whole package? It’s not like we ever see anyone else’s.

        Quote  Reply

    88. Mau,

      I know your whole thing (for some reason) is to try and provoke book purists, but GRRM’s non-completion of the books is really not something that any fan of either the books or the show should gleefully revel in.

      It’s one thing to think the show is superior to the books, or vice versa, but although I prefer the books and their depths, I am not actively rooting for the show to suck. Why would I want that?

      A true sports fan doesn’t root for the other team to lose, they root for their team to win. Especially not when the “other team” invented the game and is the reason it’s being played in the first place.

        Quote  Reply

    89. Matty C: Sorry, but we are on our third Batman iteration and third Spiderman in the last couple decades. You’d have to be awfully short-sighted and myopic to truly believe their could never be another adaptation of Game of Thrones.

      There is a huge difference between the comic-book movies and something like Game of Thrones or Harry Potter. They will always be making Batman, Spider-Man, Superman, etc., movies. There will be stretches where they do short 2-4 film series with similar casts and crews: but then it will be “rebooted” by a different cast and crew. This will always happen because there will always be a market for these commodities; however, casts and crews are not going to commit the time to keep doing them over and over, and when a new crew takes over, then they are going to want to do it their way, not just continue with what a predecessor was doing.

      With Thrones, you are talking about a multi-year commitment and several times more hours of filming to be presented. Indeed, what is more apt to happen is the whole thing condensed into a single “miniseries.” Something on this scale and that fleshes out storylines for so many individual characters will not happen again anytime soon.

        Quote  Reply

    90. Wimsey,

      Well.. Harry Potter sued them anyways…

      Also isn’t Hari Puttar a joke from the Hindi Movie Kal Ho Naa Ho (some grandma calls the Harry Potter book Hari Puttar, lol).

        Quote  Reply

    91. Matty C: It’s one thing to think the show is superior to the books, or vice versa, but although I prefer the books and their depths, I am not actively rooting for the show to suck. Why would I want that?

      But this also is a pointless comparison. Books are never better than shows or movies or in any of these combinations. People prefer shows to books or shows to movies or movies to books or movies to shows books to movies or books to shows. The different media have different strengths and weaknesses.

      Now, much of what book-lovers praise about books relative to shows or movies is not just what books can do better than shows or films (in particular, give us the thoughts of protagonists and other POV characters as they do things). However, a lot of what book-lovers praise are the things that books have to do to cover up their weakness relative to drama: they can only tell and never show. The enhanced development and prominence of incidental characters (the Manderlys or Glovers) is one of those: books are stuck doing that because they do not have a way to show incidental people of different groups; so, they are forced to add some small development just to make the reader remember who the person is. (Pictures do paint a 1000 words, and moving pictures paint even more!)

      The makes “the books are better than the movies” argument completely pointless. The question should be, is Game of Thrones a better TV show than it is a book? Was Lord of the Rings a better movie than it was a book? Were individual Harry Potter films better movies than they were books?

      When you look at the popular and critical acclaim that the Thrones show has gotten relative to other shows, and contrast that with the popular and critical acclaim that the Thrones books have gotten relative to other books, then the answer is pretty clear: Thrones is a great TV show that stands out among the very best shows of all genres; Thrones is a pretty good book series that stands out above among Fantasy books, but not among general fiction novels.

        Quote  Reply

    92. The only adaptation other than HBO’s of Game of Thrones that I would like to see someday would be an anime. It’s the only way you could include the crazy stuff that was cut from the TV adaption and not be entirely cringeworthy, because, hey that’s how animes are!

      Think about it: characters with ridiculous blue hair (or purple eyes, etc.), incest, gigantic battles and swordfights, dragons, boobs everywhere, characters that are either impossibly beautiful, impossibly fat, or impossibly strong, etc, etc. That just screams anime to me… LOL

      (Note: I don’t expect another adaptation in my lifetime, but if there were to be one, this is what I would want.)

        Quote  Reply

    93. Wimsey,

      Agreed there are major differences, yes. Disagree that something of this scale can’t happen anytime soon. Twenty years ago, many of the things that have happened since would seem pretty much inconceivable.

      1994 was the year of Lion King dominating theaters, and Pulp Fiction was duking it out with Forrest Gump for best picture. The massive successes of Fantasy Sci-Fi properties like LOTR (seven films now), Harry Potter (8), even Star Wars (7 and counting) were totally pie-in-the-sky and basically unthinkable at that time.

      Yet, piece by piece, those unthinkable projects came to reality, to various levels of success. And despite them seeming “Done” in different ways and at different points, the siren call of more money to be made got them all back in production, to varying degrees. So, while it may not be anytime soon, a different version of this will be produced, and when it does it will be with more money, not less.

        Quote  Reply

    94. Simeon,

      This. I want this anime version on my Netflix watch list immediately.

      It’s already been on for like ten seasons, and there are 175 episodes waiting for me to watch.

      Drool…

        Quote  Reply

    95. HelloThere,

      Yes, Rowling’s estate and WB did sue them for copyright infringement because the name is part of the copyright. They did not sue them for plagiarizing the plot or story because the movie actually plagiarized a different film: and it’s an old plot, anyway!. (That is part of how it came out that the film might have plagiarized another Chris Columbus film!) The simple truth is that if your name is Harry Potter or some sound-alike from a non-English Language, then you cannot use your name on a company or anything like that: Rowling & WB will sue you.

      I have read similar things regarding the line “Winter is coming.” I have read that stores have been warned to stop using that line in adverts because they now might get sued for it: never mind that “Winter is coming, and Harry Potter Fashions have all of your Winter Clothing needs on sale” or “Winter is coming, and it’s time to get your car winterized at Baggins Autoshop” has been a line used since, well, advertising was invented.

      This is why copyright lawyers make lots and lots of money!

        Quote  Reply

    96. Wimsey,

      Good points all, though I think the point was somewhat missed there.

      I was referring to mau, and the fact that he/she was (apparently) delighting in saying “hahaha, the books will never be completed, show rules, D&D Forevs, suck it haters!” As though there is some competition that he/she will “win” when GRRM dies before completing said books, thus “proving” the show to be canon, and superior.

      So, appreciate what you have to say, but just because you happen to believe that the show is more highly regarded amongst other television shows than the book is amongst other books, (something I’m just going to accept with your anecdotal evidence) that isn’t going to “convince” me that the show is definitively Better. That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

        Quote  Reply

    97. Matty C: And despite them seeming “Done” in different ways and at different points, the siren call of more money to be made got them all back in production, to varying degrees.

      None of that follows from what you wrote. Lucas had been promising us the “Prequel” since 1988, and had told us about it in 1978. The Harry Potter books were instantly recognized as a great potential movie: enough so that there was essentially a bidding war that allowed Rowling to get a contract that allowed her a big say in the movie-making process. People had been trying to get Lord of the Rings done for years. In addition to technological issue, the big issue was that studios did not want to do a film series: they wanted one film. Jackson & Co. got the rights, but would not do it if they could not do two films. (In what is one of greatest “no way!” stories of film history, the New Line people actually said: “But there were three volumes: why not make three films?”)

      Nobody is going to remake the Star Wars films. Instead, they are going to make new ones. I really doubt that we will see the Harry Potter series done again anytime soon. And it’s really implausible that Lord of the Rings will get done again anytime soon (particularly after the Hobbit!).

      And nobody is going to do a 70 hour Game of Thrones series anytime soon. Oh, they will be looking for the “next” Game of Thrones (they already are with the War of the Roses and Marco Polo series): but when the other company has the Beatles, then your company tries to find the Rolling Stones rather than wait for the time to put together a Beatles cover band.

        Quote  Reply

    98. Matty C: So, appreciate what you have to say, but just because you happen to believe that the show is more highly regarded amongst other television shows than the book is amongst other books, (something I’m just going to accept with your anecdotal evidence) that isn’t going to “convince” me that the show is definitively Better. That’s just, like, your opinion, man.

      But I didn’t say that the show was better than the books. I said that SoI&F is a better TV series than it is a book series. Those are two fundamentally different statements!

      At any rate, the TV series has been up for the most prestigious awards offered to TV series. However, none of the books have been even discussed for Bookers or Pulitzers (and, no, the Hugo doesn’t count: that is on par with MTV awards). SoI&F is considered to be very good for a fantasy book series: but it is considered to be very good for any type of TV series. That’s not an opinion: that’s just what we can see from critical and popular reaction.

      Indeed, my real point was “[show or film] better/worse than books” is a completely meaningless contrast because books, shows and movies are apples, oranges and pears.

      Oh, and I do agree that people should not revel in the fact that GRRM very well might not live to finish the series. Moreover, I am one who definitely thinks that the longer GRRM takes, the worse it will be: it will be too prone to having him load up the last two volumes with redundant stories and unnecessary plots as he did with Crows and (to a lesser extent) Dragons. However, as fans, we should be grateful that we are going to get to see the end of it one way or another.

        Quote  Reply

    99. Matty C,

      I just want to say that it is incorrect to claim that the show is adaptation. S6 and S7 will be adaptation of what? Non-existent books?

      When I say “poetic justice” that refers to GRRM and book purists.

      I think GRRM really has no respect for his fans, I do not want to elaborate on this point . Most fans know what I mean , although they maybe don’t agree with me .

      And book purists have no respect for D&D, HBO, actors, set designers , costume designers , and hundreds of others who are working hard on this project. They underestimate their efforts and talents.

      Book purists behave like spoiled arrogant children.

      A normal person does not ask of them to admire everything what HBO has done, but if you do not like anything or almost nothing, the problem lies in you.

      For example read some posts on westeros.org. Arrogance , ignorance , hate , disrespect , insults,… It is unreadable.

      And they deserve every possible spoler grom HBO.

        Quote  Reply

    100. Wimsey,

      I realize I’m not going to win a who-can-type-more-words war with you, so can’t respond to everything point-by-point, BUT.

      I was not referring to the prequels when I said the siren call of money made more SW films happen, I was referring to the new movie/all the new movies to be made in the next ten years. Also, it doesn’t follow that because Lucas “told us” about the prequels in 1978, that it wasn’t because of the siren call of money that they actually got made.

      With Harry Potter, she said she was done, never to write more HP stories, but now things are being rumored and written and optioned (due to being creatively inspired, I’m sure). And as far as LOTR, it was nothing but $$$ that turned “Oh, and maybe we’ll do the Hobbit, too” into the 3 film bloated-epic-mess that it was.

      Point being only this: there’s done, and then there’s dead. There were various finished points, only to turn out later to just be “middle” points. And eventually, in the whole sick cycle of things, you come back around to, “Hey, what if we did the ultimate—we remake the ORIGINAL?!? But this time, bigger, and better?!” This point won’t be reached five years from now, but it can be reached.

      And, more seriously, can you really not see Simeon’s Anime series idea coming to life, and being freaking amazing? Did you ever see the Spawn anime on HBO? So much better than any lame-ass live action thing starring Michael Jai White.

      Simeon, I can visualize this series so clearly, it’s making me sad that it doesn’t already exist. All the weird shit you could put in and not have be quite so out of place. Oh, man, this needs to happen!

        Quote  Reply

    101. mau,

      I do not want to go to westeros.org and read a bunch of nonsense in order to understand how your posts are actually not provocative gobbledy gook.

      We are not at westeros.org.

      This is Watchers on the Wall.

      Who are you trying to provoke, exactly, with your comments about the show not being an adaptation?

      D&D did not invent the show, or its characters, so get over yourself already.

      You talk about “book purists” as having no respect for D&D, but what respect are you showing to GRRM?

        Quote  Reply

    102. Matty C,

      I really don’t have any respect for GRRM because I don’t feel that he has respect for me , as his reader. Also , I think that he has written the last good book 15 years ago. His books do not interest me any more , nor anything that he is doing .

      I’m not trying to provoke anyone , I’m just telling the simple truth. S6 and S7 can’t be adaptation of something that does not exist.

      S 6 and 7 will be the new piece of art , hence the canon .

      Yes, we are not at westeros.org, but there are similar posts here.

        Quote  Reply

    103. Matty C: Also, it doesn’t follow that because Lucas “told us” about the prequels in 1978, that it wasn’t because of the siren call of money that they actually got made.

      But in all of these examples, the response was not “remake” but new series. Lucas made new Star Wars films. Rowling is making new stuff from the HP universe. Thus, the analog here would not be remaking the SoI&F series, but doing a prequel or sequel series. (Daeny & Jon send their son Aegon Neddard to Berk to study dragons with Hiccup or something.)

      Now, there might be some allure in doing that. However, remaking a 70 hour miniseries over multiple years? Even the youngest of us here will not live to see that.

      Matty C: We are not at westeros.org.

      This is Watchers on the Wall.

      And thank goodness for that! (I used to post there, but they make the Harry Potter fans look mature and well-read.)

        Quote  Reply

    104. mau,

      Season 7 will be an adaptation; of an outline and a story, instead of a written novel. Season 6 will be a mixture of both, since GRRM has already written some of TWOW and most likely shown it to D&D. It’s silly to say it will not be an adaptation just because the books have not yet been written and/or published. The story is being adapted.

        Quote  Reply

    105. One thing I find bizarre in all of these discussions is how many fans believe that Dan and David owe them some sort of explanation for any changes they make from the books.

      I think that it’s safe to say the reason for virtually every change is simply because they think that the show will work better with that change. Sometimes it’s to simplify things, or cut out things and characters and plotlines that they think won’t work as well on television. Sometimes it’s to add more action or character development in different ways. Sometimes, it’s because they don’t have an extra season or three to deal with all of the convolutions of the plot and the thousands of characters. Sometimes, it’s because they don’t want to add too many more characters when so many of the viewers have trouble keeping up with all of the characters as it is, on the largest cast in television history.

      It’s not because they don’t understand the characters. It’s not because they don’t understand what George is trying to do, or the themes he’s writing about. It’s not because they don’t understand the importance of certain plotlines or characters. (In fact, since they know more about what is happening in the future of the books, it could be argued that they understand these things better than the rest of the fans.) It’s not because all they want is violence and sex on the show. And it’s not because they’re deliberately trying to piss off the book readers.

      It’s because they think it will make for a better television show. We may not always agree with their assessment. But THAT is their reasoning every single time.

      That’s the only explanation they owe us.

      Maybe after the series is done, they’ll tell us some of the more specifics for why they made certain choices. But they don’t owe that to us. All they owe us is a great show. And so far, I think they’ve delivered that to us.

        Quote  Reply

    106. Luka Nieto,

      I do not understand what “adaptation of an outline” means. You can adapt the book but how to adapt an outline?

      They will not adapt, they will create on the basis of that outline.

        Quote  Reply

    107. Wimsey:

      (Daeny & Jon send their son Aegon Neddard to Berk to study dragons with Hiccup or something.)

      Wimsey, please make this movie happen. Seriously.

        Quote  Reply

    108. mau,

      Unwritten yet spoken folk stories have been adapted all the time. Oral storytelling was an art before Martin told Benioff and Weiss the ending of his story! It’s unfortunate we forget this only so we can zing the book fans. Childish things…

        Quote  Reply

    109. Matty C:

      Simeon, I can visualize this series so clearly, it’s making me sad that it doesn’t already exist.All the weird shit you could put in and not have be quite so out of place.Oh, man, this needs to happen!

      MattyC,

      Maybe someday after the HBO series wraps. There is already a graphic novel adaptation (I have no idea if it’s good or not, just know that it exists), so why not adapt the material into yet another medium, especially one that’s orders of magnitude cheaper with regard to effects, actors, etc.? It all depends on the lawyers, I’d imagine, with regard to having/getting the rights to do it, but if it can make money, I’d think somebody might try to do it at some point… otherwise, you’d just be leaving money on the table!

        Quote  Reply

    110. mau,

      What Outline? Didn’t GRRM say he doesn’t do outlines when he writes books. I think the authors office is full of empty pizza boxes with notes written on them of where the story is headed.

        Quote  Reply

    111. David H:
      One thing I find bizarre in all of these discussions is how many fans believe that Dan and David owe them some sort of explanation for any changes they make from the books.

      I think that it’s safe to say the reason for virtually every change is simply because they think that the show will work better with that change.Sometimes it’s to simplify things, or cut out things and characters and plotlines that they think won’t work as well on television.Sometimes it’s to add more action or character development in different ways.Sometimes, it’s because they don’t have an extra season or three to deal with all of the convolutions of the plot and the thousands of characters.Sometimes, it’s because they don’t want to add too many more characters when so many of the viewers have trouble keeping up with all of the characters as it is, on the largest cast in television history.

      It’s not because they don’t understand the characters.It’s not because they don’t understand what George is trying to do, or the themes he’s writing about.It’s not because they don’t understand the importance of certain plotlines or characters.(In fact, since they know more about what is happening in the future of the books, it could be argued that they understand these things better than the rest of the fans.)It’s not because all they want is violence and sex on the show.And it’s not because they’re deliberately trying to piss off the book readers.

      It’s because they think it will make for a better television show.We may not always agree with their assessment.But THAT is their reasoning every single time.

      That’s the only explanation they owe us.

      Maybe after the series is done, they’ll tell us some of the more specifics for why they made certain choices.But they don’t owe that to us.All they owe us is a great show.And so far, I think they’ve delivered that to us.

      Well said!

        Quote  Reply

    112. Tormund’s Woman:
      mau,

      Unwritten yet spoken folk stories have been adapted all the time. Oral storytelling was an art before Martin told Benioff and Weiss the ending of his story! It’s unfortunate we forget this only so we can zing the book fans. Childish things…

      That is something completely different. ASOIF is not spoken folk story. And he did’t read them the whole thing , but only an outline

      And that is extremely different compared to what we had with S1-5.

        Quote  Reply

    113. mau,

      I fail to see the difference. Folk stories was just an example to prove the general point. The larger category I was mentioning was oral storytelling. I’m not going to insult you by quoting what that is, but Martin telling Benioff and Weiss the ending over a five hour session and then going over story arc by story arc qualifies.

        Quote  Reply

    114. mau,

      No one is saying it would be the same. That wasn’t your original statement, so that’s not what we were replying to. If all you’re saying is that it’s gonna be a different adaptation process, I think we can all agree with that. However, what you actually said is that the show would no longer be an adaptation at all, and that it would therefore become the new canon. Or are you backtracking on that?

        Quote  Reply

    115. Luka Nieto,

      I’m not sure that it falls under the definition of adaptation.

      GRRM is someone who will inspire the last two seasons, of course.

      But that is not adaptation, strictly speaking.

        Quote  Reply

    116. mau,

      Of course it is an adaptation. They are still considering each piece of the story (originally from the novels; now from GRRM’s mouth) and deciding how to better translate them to a different medium. The books may not be written, but the story in GRRM’s mind is still conceived as a story designed for a novel. D&D will have to make the same decisions they always do —does this subplot, character, or whatever fit in our time-restricted medium? Is there a more visual way to tell this part of the story? That’s all an adaptation is.

        Quote  Reply

    117. Luka Nieto,

      I respect you and your opinion, but we can agree to disagree.

      I personally did several adaptations in my life and I have a different experience. But it does not matter . I appreciate everyone’s belief.

        Quote  Reply

    118. mau,

      Hahahah Great R’hllor mau!!! did you not know that oral storytelling is not necessarily reading 2000 pages books outloud to the audience?! Stop trolling me. I bet troubadours were having pages turned every damn time they were telling a story. Too busy playing the mandolin and drinking I guess…

        Quote  Reply

    119. Tormund’s Woman,

      I still don’t understand what troubadours have to do with this.

      They adapted 5 seasons based on the books and books no longer exist. Period.

      There is only an outline for which we do not know how detailed it is and what it contains.

      So for me S6 and 7 are not an adaptation , but the canon.

        Quote  Reply

    120. mau,

      That makes no sense whatsoever. How will seasons six and seven be the canon? They will be the show’s canon, but the show always was that. They won’t be the book’s canon, because the stories are already different enough that season six and season seven cannot be said to be strict continuations of ADWD and the previous books.

      Or, well, maybe you’re also using the word “canon” uniquely, like you were with “adaptation.” If you mean they will be the first version of the end of the story we see, then yes, you are right. I don’t see how that equals the usual meaning of ‘canon’, though.

        Quote  Reply

    121. Luka Nieto,

      Canon often means “the right version” of the story.

      My opinion is that the book will not be completed, which means that the only version of the story that will be finished is the one from the show.

        Quote  Reply

    122. mau,

      Oops, my bad. I thought you were joking about oral storytelling being only reading out loud actual written material (in this case 2000 pages books). Those stories can be adapted to screen. In these case they actually do.

      Troubadours were just another example of oral storytelling without written material. I retrospect, since you are dead set on your opinion and were not joking, I should not have mentioned them.

        Quote  Reply

    123. Tormund’s Woman:
      mau,

      Oops, my bad. I thought you were joking about oral storytelling being only reading out loud actual written material (in this case 2000 pages books). Those stories can be adapted to screen. In these case they actually do.

      I was joking.

      My point was that it is not the same if they have a 2000 or 2500 pages in front of them or they only have couple of hours listening to the plans for TWOW and ADOS.

        Quote  Reply

    124. Mau

      This is your opinion. An opinion based on what fact? The only fact that we know right now is that GRRM is still writing the book which means that at some point it will be finished. He has already written a great deal of it on which I suppose the producers are going to build their adaptation of the 6th season. It is an adaptation as there is extensive written material which producers will use. I am sorry but Luka Nieto has clearly proven that you are wrong and I do not understand what is the point of continuing this futile discussion.

        Quote  Reply

    125. dothrakian raven:
      Mau

      This is your opinion. An opinion based on what fact?

      Well I said that this is just my opinion. I don’t think books will ever be completed and all my posts I based on that belief.

      It is possible that I will not be right. We’ll see.

        Quote  Reply

    126. I didn’t want to read through all the comments so I apologize if someone has already said this but I feel like they might have the Blackfish take LS role if they decide to still go that route with Brienne.

      One way or another there has to be repercussions against the Frey’s that starts to at least materialize in Season 5 and come to fruition in Season 6. Whether that’s Sansa, just the Brotherhood, LS or the Blackfish taking LS role.

        Quote  Reply

    127. Matty C:
      Dragonslayer/Yivo,

      Regarding future adaptations of ASOIAF, you two are very confidently tossing around words like “Never”.

      Sorry, but we are on our third Batman iteration and third Spiderman in the last couple decades.You’d have to be awfully short-sighted and myopic to truly believe their could never be another adaptation of Game of Thrones.

      Today’s Most-expensive-show-ever-made, nothing-could-possibly-top-this, is tomorrow’s (or thirty years from now’s) Quaint, fuzzy-looking (once we invent 5-D TV, or Super-Deluxe-HD) thing that absolutely MUST be re-made and re-cast and, most importantly, re-SOLD.

      I know it seems right now like this is the definitive, be-all, end-all version, but it won’t feel that way forever.

      Finally someone speaking some sense…never is a very strong word that almost never means never.

      Matty C:
      Mau,

      I know your whole thing (for some reason) is to try and provoke book purists, but GRRM’s non-completion of the books is really not something that any fan of either the books or the show should gleefully revel in.

      It’s one thing to think the show is superior to the books, or vice versa, but although I prefer the books and their depths, I am not actively rooting for the show to suck.Why would I want that?

      A true sports fan doesn’t root for the other team to lose, they root for their team to win.Especially not when the “other team” invented the game and is the reason it’s being played in the first place.

      And again. I applaud you, sir

        Quote  Reply

    128. Matty C:
      mau,

      I do not want to go to westeros.org and read a bunch of nonsense in order to understand how your posts are actually not provocative gobbledy gook.

      We are not at westeros.org.

      This is Watchers on the Wall.

      Who are you trying to provoke, exactly, with your comments about the show not being an adaptation?

      D&D did not invent the show, or its characters, so get over yourself already.

      You talk about “book purists” as having no respect for D&D, but what respect are you showing to GRRM?

      And another one…amazing.

      Just this morning I wanted to make a post about “Linda from Westeros”. I think she is the wife of the guy that makes the reviews of the show over there, and run the web toguether. Also, looks like she is really evil. I have no idea because I only go to westeros to read the reviews of the episodes Elio does. And quite frankly, they are quite alright. Better than average.

      But his name, and specially Linda’s, appear all the time here and it’s amazing the amount of hate they are victims off. They say she deserves it. , but all I can see is people around here hating Linda for being a hater, thus doing the same she does

      Guys, for me you are the Linda’s of WoT…food for thought 😉

        Quote  Reply

    129. There may be only 2 more seasons but new characters WILL be introduced. LSH, Arriane, & the Griffs are very likely OUT. The Greyjoys I can see being very likely to be in for season 6. They are NOT pointless in the books, but rather are 4 POVs of awesome. As far as plot goes, the other two dragons need riders, and I think the DRAGON HORN is an essential item / macguffin. Therefore it will make the show, and so will at least one greyjoy uncle. Plus the Yara / Theon story will have some conclusion that must needs involve more ironborn. (Ps- Theon is surviving this whole story. Mark it. What is dead may never die)

        Quote  Reply

    130. dothrakian raven: He has already written a great deal of it

      (CITATION NEEDED)

      Pau,

      A lot of people hate on Linda because she has said horrible things and bullied people in the fandom. 5 minutes of googling is all you would need to discover that.

        Quote  Reply

    131. Also, Ray Stevenson has been cast a the pirate Black Beard for season 3 of Black Sails, so he won’t be Victation, but at least we’ll have a sort of facsimile of same to enjoy on another channel. 🙂

        Quote  Reply

    132. Wimsey,

      Copyright laws and intellectual property are a mess, unfortunately, one that should really be looked at and thoroughly reformed. There was a big hubbub recently (well, big if you’re into computer role-playing games) where King, the makers of such mobile “gems” as Candy Crush and other uberpopular Saga games, managed to protect the word ‘Saga’, ie. they hold the trademark for the word in the field of video games and software. Soon after, in comes Stoic, an indie game developer led by some well-known names in the industry, and publishes a beautiful little retro-inspired Viking-themed RPG called The Banner Saga. You understand – Vikings, sagas, kinda related, right? As opposed to confectionery products that don’t really have anything to do with Norse epic tales unless I’m mistaken.

      Although the two companies aim at totally different audiences, King immediately started threatening Stoic with litigation in order to “protect” their IP. Fortunately, they managed to reach some kind of agreement in the meantime. Nevertheless, I find it incredible that anyone can hold the trademark for such a basic and relatively common word as ‘saga’. What kind of law enables such nonsense? What’s next? Protect ‘a’, ‘the’, ‘and’, ‘of’?

        Quote  Reply

    133. Euron! Euron! Urine King!,

      The Dragon Horn is the dumbest addition to the story. The Targaryens left Valyria before the doom and forgot to take their dragon horns with them, they also forgot to take any smiths with them just incase they wanted to make valyrian steel swords. I say nonsense.

        Quote  Reply

    134. mau:
      And book purists have no respect for D&D, HBO, actors, set designers , costume designers , and hundreds of others who are working hard on this project. They underestimate their efforts and talents.

      Book purists behave like spoiled arrogant children.

      Expressing dislike for adaptation choices does not mean a person “has no respect” for everyone involved in the show. I don’t understand where all of the vitriol against “purists” around here is coming from lately. At this point it seems like attacking this westeros.org straw man that doesn’t even post here.

      I’ve seen several people lately say that they’re excited for upcoming seasons when no one will be able to complain about changes because no one will know which things are adaptation choices, but I’m feeling pretty excited to be able to dislike things about the show and not automatically be accused of blindly hating on D&D!

        Quote  Reply

    135. Pau: And another one…amazing.

      Just this morning I wanted to make a post about “Linda from Westeros”. I think she is the wife of the guy that makes the reviews of the show over there, and run the web toguether. Also, looks like she is really evil. I have no idea because I only go to westeros to read the reviews of the episodes Elio does. And quite frankly, they are quite alright. Better than average.

      But his name, and specially Linda’s, appear all the time here and it’s amazing the amount of hate they are victims off. They say she deserves it. , butall I can see is people around here hating Linda for being a hater, thus doing the same she does

      Guys, for me you are the Linda’s of WoT…food for thought

      There’s a difference you see. This is a Game Of Thrones website based on the hit show on HBO. Which means anything related to GOT gets posted/mentioned by the great people over here.
      Just a week ago GOT had a London premier.
      You see where I’m going with this?
      I’m sure most of us don’t want to waste a second talking about that Mutant named Linda, but she just happened to be at the premier and give her thoughts which we already know she hates the show because it’s not the books. (She can’t tell the difference in art, I know)
      As a book reader I love discussing the books and all it’s theory’s, mysteries and prophecies. But with that said, there would not be any “hate” coming from here If that Goblin face would just stick to talking about the books, instead of insulting the people that work hard to make the show and the fandom that watches. She puts her self on display so… I’m gonna call it what she is.
      I’m just a watcher on the wall my friend.

        Quote  Reply

    136. Yivo,

      “The next volume in the penultimate series will be called Winds of Winter and Martin has admitted that he has written 400 pages, 200 of which still has to be revised”. – Adria’s News 07/2012

      At least 400 pages of written material in 2012. Three years later one logically expects that these have been multiplied. Even if there is not a finalised edited text there is certainly a fair amount of hundreds of pages that could be used as source material for the show. From this one one can deduce the assumption that a process (very slow? fairly slow? normal pace? etc) has been set which can help D&D to adapt material for the shows 6th season. It is totally different to express an opinion about what you want to believe it will happen (in the sense that I believe that a comet is going to hit the earth tomorrow) and try to impose your unfounded opinion on others with an intensity of spirit just for the shake of it and different to express an opinion based on facts (very few indeed and not at all concrete) or at least on logical assumptions (even if these can be contested). And I think that it is logical to assume that Martin has added the last three years hundreds of pages to the aforementioned 400.

        Quote  Reply

    137. ffiferoo,

      Of course you can express dislike for adaptation choices.

      But if you don’t like 70% or more of their choices, why are you watching the show and disturbing other fans?

      This is just the show , made ​​for fun and enjoyment. And book purists bring tension that really is not necessary. This is not a political site. We’re not talking about wars or finance or something like that.

      Nobody asks you to love every second of the show, but if you call producers of the show “dumb and dumber”, if you’re trying to prove that they are bad people , assholes, talentless,…. you’re just a troll without respect.

      You are excited to be able to dislike the show? Great approach!

        Quote  Reply

    138. Matty C:
      Mau,

      I know your whole thing (for some reason) is to try and provoke book purists, but GRRM’s non-completion of the books is really not something that any fan of either the books or the show should gleefully revel in.

      It’s one thing to think the show is superior to the books, or vice versa, but although I prefer the books and their depths, I am not actively rooting for the show to suck.Why would I want that?

      A true sports fan doesn’t root for the other team to lose, they root for their team to win.Especially not when the “other team” invented the game and is the reason it’s being played in the first place.

      Hahhahahhaha.

      I root for the Duke Blue Devils to lose every game and I want them to be embarrassed doing it. My team could lose every game in a season, but if they sweep Duke, I can take solace. That kind of passion is the mark of a die-hard.

      I think your view of a “true fan” is … off.

        Quote  Reply

    139. mau:
      ffiferoo,

      Of course you can express dislike for adaptation choices.

      But if you don’t like 70% or moreof their choices, why are you watching the show and disturbing other fans?

      This is just the show , made ​​for fun and enjoyment. And book purists bring tension that really is not necessary. This is not a political site. We’re not talking about wars or financeor something like that.

      Nobody asks you to love every second of the show, but if you call producers of the show “dumb and dumber”, if you’re trying to prove that they are bad people , assholes, talentless,…. you’re just a troll without respect.

      You are excited to be able to dislike the show? Great approach!

      You just threw a bunch of straw man accusations at me in order to suggest that *I’m* a troll. Yes, I am excited to be able to dislike aspects of the show *without being accused of only disliking them because of differences from the books*. That is what I said, and what you chose to ignore. It’s silly to hate every change because it’s different, but it’s just as silly to act like every single change was a good choice. I’m assuming you’re just trying to get a rise out of me, but it doesn’t change what you’re saying from being exactly what I’m talking about when I say it’s getting hostile toward certain parts of the fandom around here.

      Now I guess I’d better start watching through my Blu-Rays to check what percentage of D&D’s choices I don’t like, to see if I can keep watching the show or not!

        Quote  Reply

    140. ffiferoo,

      I was ispeaking in general. None of that refered specifically to you.

      You can do whatever you want. If you do not like the show , and for some reason you want to watch it , fine. Your choice.

      But be prepared for the reaction of people who are bothered by negativism . And no, this doesn’t mean that you have to be a fanboy of D & D , you only need to be a reasonable person.

      I do not know you, nor your criticism, so I can’t comment on anything that relates to you personally.

        Quote  Reply

    141. Cumsprite: Hahhahahhaha.

      I root for the Duke Blue Devils to lose every game and I want them to be embarrassed doing it.

      I know it is completely off-topic, but that comment made me smile more than any other comment I’ve seen today.

        Quote  Reply

    142. mau:
      ffiferoo,

      But be prepared for the reaction of people who are bothered by negativism . And no, this doesn’t mean that you have to be a fanboy of D & D , you only need to be a reasonable person.

      I just think people need to distinguish flat out negativity from reasonable criticism. The former is irritating, but the latter is an opportunity to start a discussion.

        Quote  Reply

    143. Cumsprite,

      Ok, fair enough. I was referring to just the head-to-head times. I’m a Seahawks fan, and trust me, I’d be cool with a few years of Patriots humiliation. What I don’t want is to win the Super Bowl cause Tom Brady and the whole offensive line break their legs on game day.

        Quote  Reply

    144. Yivo,

      I suppose that what are you getting at is that Martin has written 163 pages the last 3 years…which of course you personally have counted one by one!

        Quote  Reply

    145. Reading this now makes sense with more Greyjoys showing up for Season Seven. Especially the part about taking a different order than the books. ie they didn’t want to introduce the Martells and introduce new Greyjoys at the same time.

        Quote  Reply

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