Bella Ramsey says she expected us to “hate” Lyanna Mormont

Lyanna

It’s not always clear what makes a character a fan favorite. Certainly if there were a set formula, every person on every show would be adored. Still, it’s a testament to how unpredictable character likability can be that Bella Ramsey fully expected fans to loathe Lyanna Mormont.

In a recent interview with Metro.co.uk, Ramsey admitted that she did not see her character’s popularity coming.

“I was petrified when [season 6] came out, as I [was] expecting people to hate what I’d done and not like Lyanna,” she said. “I was scared I’d be received in a bad way. I was very shocked people liked my performance.”

Ramsey didn’t elaborate on what she expected audiences to dislike about her portrayal of Lyanna but it’s easy to imagine how the Mormont lady might have come across as unlikable on the page.

After all, in her very first scene Lady Mormont refuses to help Jon and Sansa take back Winterfell from the Boltons (at first) and makes a joke about Sansa’s multiple marriages. While her reluctance to, as she puts it, “sacrifice one more Mormont life for someone else’s war” is well-founded, in my opinion, one can imagine why Ramsey expected such reticence to rub viewers the wrong way. And, of course, there is a well-established precedent for powerful female characters to have … divisive receptions in fandoms.

But moving on, the 15-year old actress also discussed how her life has changed since appearing on Game of Thrones and how she’s handling the pressure to promote herself.

“When Game Of Thrones came out lots of interviews were coming in and people [were] asking me to do certain things which would push me out there,” she said. “Like this whole Instagram and Twitter thing, getting more followers doesn’t bother me at all … So I held off from doing interviews, because I want my life to be my own. I think we could have pushed it more and I could have been more of a celebrity, but that isn’t something I wanted to do.”

Ramsey said Kit Harington offered her his two cents on how to handle the media whirlwind.

“He always said [to go to him] if I want some bad advice, but I don’t think his advice is bad!” she said, laughing. “When I went to the Baftas I asked him about live interviews, what advice he would give, and he said ‘just be yourself and don’t try to say what you think people want you to’. That’s the best advice you can give.”

As cool as it must be to be 15-years old and having Kit Harington give you life advice, Ramsey appears to take it all in stride and says she doesn’t get starstruck.

“I get to meet a load of people in an environment I’m really comfortable with. But all these big names, they started out just like I started out and they’re just normal people underneath,” she said. “Certainly no one I’ve worked with so far has been changed or manipulated by fame … it’s cool to meet people if I’ve seen them in a film or series. I just like getting to know people.”

52 responses

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    1. Ah, love her even more. And Lyanna was a refreshing character – I mean, that note to Stannis to begin with. 😆 And I always thought that she acted in a realistic way towards Jon and Sansa’s condescending/patronizing appeal, and then to Davos’ straight, no-nonsense and non-pandering approach. I liked that about Lord Glover as well in his first scene, because I feel as though this is how anyone in that position WOULD feel. Pity his character went sideways in S7.

      Anyhoo, Bella rocks.

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    2. Even on a show as replete to the brim with iconic and beloved characters as Game of Thrones, Lyanna Mormont represents a remarkable success story. She’s only appeared in five episodes of the show to date, and has never even appeared in the novels in person, only indirectly via her famous letter. And yet I think she can legitimately lay claim to being one of the series’ most universally popular characters, and deservingly so.

      It’s true that her letter to Stannis, in both mediums, provided a strong core idea for her character, which the GOT writing staff expertly fleshed out. But still … a no-nonsense, quick-witted, hard-as-steel young ruler only works if the young actor portraying them can effectively and efficiently convey all of those qualities. David and Dan were spot-on when they talked about just how fortunate they were to have found Bella Ramsey for the role. She rose to that challenge and then some. If there’s a good-faith member of the fandom who doesn’t love her portrayal of Lady Lyanna, I’ve yet to meet them.

      I can understand why Ms. Ramsey was anxious about how her character would be received – that’s human nature. But I hope by now that anxiety has faded as she appreciates just how indelible her portrayal of the Lady of Bear Island has become among the millions of us who love Game of Thrones. She’s a remarkable talent … and a two-time WOTW Awards Guest Actress winner, I believe!

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    3. Hate her?
      Oh no. Quite the opposite. From the moment she spoke her first line, I’ve been a fan. And then her speech in the last episode of season 6 (my favorite season, BtW) was the coup de grâce.

      I truly hope we get to see her verbally spar with Daenerys.

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    4. I’ll refrain from commenting extensively and just say she did a fine job with a role that’s probably been less than 100 words so far…

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    5. Jared: She’s a remarkable talent … and a two-time WOTW Awards Guest Actress winner, I believe!

      Okay… also, I’ll still say Essie Davis deserved it for season 6 and Indira for season 7, since she still qualified.

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    6. Pigeon,

      I’d been waiting to post my Feb. 18, 10:15 pm comment under the “Wight Heist” article, and hoped you’d see it because you’d get the Monty Python & The Holy Grail references.

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    7. well i hate her character. she was cute for her first few scenes but now she’s a pure fan service character. The actress is great though.

      She’s there to have snarky dialogue and always be right. we’re just supposed to accept her as a #Badassfemalecharacter cause she’s 10 and a great ruler. She stans Jon Snow, which is considered the main criteria by the fan base to like a character.she’s just gimmicky and overrated, imagine if Deanarys or Sansa spoke to people the way she does…They’ll be crucified and be called arrogant and smug (half of the fandom already calls them that without any reason)

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    8. Nariman:
      well i hate her character. she was cute for her first few scenes but now she’s a pure fan service character. The actress is great though.

      She’s there to have snarky dialogue and always be right. we’re just supposed to accept her as a #Badassfemalecharacter cause she’s 10 and a great ruler. She stans Jon Snow, which is considered the main criteria by the fan base to like a character.she’s just gimmicky and overrated, imagine if Deanarys or Sansa spoke to people the way she does…They’ll be crucified and be called arrogant and smug (half of the fandom already calls them that without any reason)

      Oh, I think you’ve misread the culture here. Bear Island folks have to be tough, same as Ironborn. And especially if a young leader is going to retain power, which is her case, and get that tiny clan proud to stand behind her.
      Compare her leadership to other young leaders, Jeoffry and Tommin. Both failed, for being too tough or too soft. She’s just the right mix of tough and doing the right thing for her people, to earn their loyalty, have their back and stand up to the insanity of the game of who’s on the throne now?

      Did they have her go for the laughs after her first appearance? Yes, of course. Same as they would with another endearing character. Why be mad about that? We need our lighter moments to offset some of the darker vices of GOT.

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    9. I agree with Clob. I do love that bada*s, take-no-crap little Mormont, but have definitely heard those who found her obnoxious, grating, tiresome, one-note, etc. Honestly, on my second watch-through, I could understand that pov a little more. Still, I think Olli’s got it–she’s just figured this thing out at a remarkably early age, and is supremely no-nonsense. Arya’d be proud of that.

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    10. Amazing character. Very bold. And what’s amazing about her is that she is also very smart. She is hold when need to. Helping when need to. She sees things old men don’t see.

      And please can we ban the words: fanfiction fanservice etc it starts to get repetitive (and annoying). Everything that d and d do in last 2 seasons are given those 2 worlds.

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    11. Jack Bauer 24:
      Hope to see her fighting the AotD in 7 weeks 😀

      What if Arya and Lyanna Mormont teamed up in battle. I can see Arya distract the NK, then quickly flip toss Leanna the valerian dagger and the little bear delivers the final blow to the NK

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    12. Pigeon,

      Davos is absolutely pandering to Lyanna in that scene, he’s just doing it more effectively than Jon and Sansa, who are both written as tone-deaf and unable to think on their feet.

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    13. Milutin,

      There’s definitely something off regarding Lyanna’s age and the way she behaves and talks people down. Somehow unrealistic to me. But the actress is great.

      youve obviously not been around some 10 year olds! But for the role that she has been chosen for, Ramsey is indeed excellent. Glad shes got some mentors there (seems like all the young actors did) and she’s got her head on straight (as well as any teen can!)

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    14. I dont really get what you would call the realistic behavior of a 10 yo ruler. What is the standard for those?
      A lot of ppl have no idea how tough can 10 yo girls be when in position of dominance. Check the bigger sisters to whom parents loads a lot of responsibilities on their shoulders. They sound just like this.

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    15. Extrapolating and clarifying on my posts last night…
      I don’t/didn’t ‘hate’ the character. I also do think Bella did a good job and perhaps she has a fine career ahead of her. However, this small role she’s had to play and how basic it’s been isn’t a performance that’s made me go nutso or one that I’d say is her defining moment. There was nothing about it that I would call challenging. She had to act important and deliver a few lines sternly. It’s all good and well if they want to give her some scenes in S8 that require some actual range beyond just ‘bratty girl’; more emotions, personal conversations, physical acting, etc.

      What does occasionally gnaw at me a bit has been the fawning over what has just been a bit part. She said a few lines with one emotion and many compared her equally with Maisie who had to show a lot more range and ability immediately. Bella won this site’s award twice for hardly an appearance over a couple of ladies that had much larger and difficult roles in which they nailed. I just think the IDEA of the character has created an overrated character. Again, I think Bella did a good job, but the part just doesn’t justify the worship imo.

      I’ll stop including myself in this topic now since it makes me grumpy for some reason. 😛

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    16. Kevin1989:
      Amazing character. Very bold. And what’s amazing about her is that she is also very smart. She is hold when need to. Helping when need to. She sees things old men don’t see.

      And please can we ban the words: fanfiction fanservice etc it starts to get repetitive (and annoying). Everything that d and d do in last 2 seasons are given those 2 worlds.

      Me too, I’m getting allergic to the word fanservice.

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    17. Sean C.:
      Pigeon,

      Davos is absolutely pandering to Lyanna in that scene, he’s just doing it more effectively than Jon and Sansa, who are both written as tone-deaf and unable to think on their feet.

      Of course he is, I worded that wrong. I meant to get across that he did it without insulting her intelligence and offering her strawberry ice cream if she was good. I’m sure Jon and Sansa didn’t mean to, and were talking in the way they would be used to speaking to a child, but Davos figured out that wasn’t gonna fly. He’s good with negotiating. After all, it wasn’t Stannis that convinced the Iron Bank in their talks. 🙂

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    18. Chilli,

      Agreed. Many people say anything is fan service if it’s not within their scope of expectation.

      I don’t see how inserting a strong-minded young girl in a medieval series is pandering at all. Small girls have never been a medieval staple anyway.

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    19. Chilli: Me too, I’m getting allergic to the word fanservice.

      And killing another stark would have been fanservice also because that’s why we felt in love with the show. Because a main character died that soon.

      You can call everything fan service because the meaning of a show of to service the fans. Why else make a show.

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    20. Pigeon: , but Davos figured out that wasn’t gonna fly. He’s good with negotiating. After all, it wasn’t Stannis that convinced the Iron Bank in their talks. 🙂

      I think having Davos be the one to “get through” to her was specifically meant to call to mind his close relationship with Shireen. He was the only one in the room who could talk to Lyanna as an equal and not a child specifically because of his special relationship with the princess. Plus it was another way to highlight that of everyone on the show, Davos is the one who can talk to anyone, be they royalty or a bastard. Or both, in Stannis’ case. Wokka wokka.

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    21. The actress does well considering her age. But her character? Nothing but a walking meme created to fix the ‘female problem’ of the show. And they thought bringing in book Cersei (aka the biggest female misogynist in the story) in the form of a 10 year old was the way to go? No thank you, she is not feminist precisely because she is nothing but a walking stereotype who hates women and any feminine activities. Which makes her character nothing but a freaking joke, one that’s not even funny.

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    22. JR:
      No thank you, she is not feminist precisely because she is nothing but a walking stereotype who hates women and any feminine activities.

      She never said anything like that. In fact, she defended women when Lord Glover scoffed at the idea of women fighting. Also, GOT doesn’t have a “female problem.”

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    23. I can see how the role could be perceived as pandering (especially to “f3m!n1$t!!1!” types), but her attitude does provide slight relief without being over-the-top and sticking out like a sore thumb. She is certainly mature and well-spoken for one so young, but especially given the world and environment in which she was raised, I can’t say she’s unbelievable.

      I get the negative connotation of “fanservice” (i.e., gratuitous stuff that wouldn’t have originally been done for the sake of story and purely tries to get a continued reaction in the moment, appease vocal subsets, generate memes, or whatever.) But I don’t think this character is merely that; she does belong in the world. Clob’s still right on, though.
      I also don’t believe the show has a “female problem,” or that Lyanna is anything like Cersei, or that she “hates women and feminine activities” (HUH?!?) I don’t even really like talking about “feminine activities” without a qualifier such as “traditionally” or “conventionally,” since activities aren’t inherently gendered.

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    24. Clob,

      I don’t disagree with you. I personally voted for Essie Davis in the Guest Actress category for Season 6 (I thought her performance was absolutely exceptional and more than that, essential for Arya’s arc), and I voted for Indira Varma in the Best Supporting Actress category for Season 7, where she was ultimately nominated -over such stiff competitors as Dame Diana Rigg (Bella got my vote in the Guest Actress category, edging out Rosabell Laurenti Sellers). But in my book, none of that detracts from my respect for Bella Ramsey’s performance – it’s just a testament to how great the other actresses were.

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    25. Young Dragon: She never said anything like that. In fact, she defended women when Lord Glover scoffed at the idea of women fighting. Also, GOT doesn’t have a “female problem.”

      Shelle:
      I can see how the role could be perceived as pandering (especially to “f3m!n1$t!!1!” types), but her attitude does provide slight relief without being over-the-top and sticking out like a sore thumb. She is certainly mature and well-spoken for one so young, but especially given the world and environment in which she was raised, I can’t say she’s unbelievable.

      I also don’t believe the show has a “female problem,” or that Lyanna is anything like Cersei, or that she “hates women and feminine activities” (HUH?!?) I don’t even really like talking about “feminine activities” without a qualifier such as “traditionally” or “conventionally,” since activities aren’t inherently gendered.

      Of course the show has a female problem. Always had. It wasn’t until S5 however when even the critics got vocal about it (S5 aka the rape of Sansa, almost rape of Gilly and mass rape at Craster’s…just to name 3). But the show was always misogynistic, and also homophobic, anti-religious and xenophobic. And all of this in blatant stereotypes. So yes S6 was D&D trying to fix their ‘women problem’ by not fixing anything at all.

      Lyanna Mormont is the best example of D&D simply not getting the problem and they definitely don’t know what an empowered woman is. She delivers a verbal beatdown to grown men and they not only let her but admit defeat (this is so hysterically unbelievable btw), including men who didn’t even do what she accused them of (see Lord Cerwyn). She blames women for having no autonomy or rights. Or how else does one explain her blaming Sansa for being married to Tyrion and Ramsey? Everyone knew Sansa was a freaking 13 year old prisoner in King’s Landing. And the official story for the Bolton marriage seems to be that Sansa was kidnapped while on the road with Littlefinger. But yes, lets blame Sansa, the woman, and use that as grounds to ‘discredit’ her. I thought marrying the enemy was supposed to be empowering, or so Cogman excused the ‘Sansa marriage and rape’. Lyanna endorsing a bastard who did nothing but screw up (quite frankly she should have endorsed Davos who convinced her to join) over not only the true born Stark sitting right there but a Stark who is a fellow woman. It’s extra insulting especially since this was supposed to be ‘women on top’. She doesn’t want to be sitting by the fire knitting (what is it with D&D and their knitting hate geez) while others fight…talk about empty words. Don’t remember her on the battlefield in BotB and we won’t see her in the major battles against the dead next Season either. An insult to feminine activities wrapped in faux feminism. If no one is knitting what is the army going to wear? Does Lyanna think a naked army, in winter, will amount to much? Also who is going to tend to the wounded, make bandages etc.? If the women don’t do it then who? Elves? Fairies? Sure won’t be the men/boys who don’t know how to knit.

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    26. JR:
      She blames women for having no autonomy or rights. Or how else does one explain her blaming Sansa for being married to Tyrion and Ramsey? Everyone knew Sansa was a freaking 13 year old prisoner in King’s Landing. And the official story for the Bolton marriage seems to be that Sansa was kidnapped while on the road with Littlefinger. But yes, lets blame Sansa, the woman, and use that as grounds to ‘discredit’ her.

      Is there a source for this being the official story? Or everyone knowing Sansa was a 13-year old prisoner? We know Sansa was held against her will and forced into these marriages but I can’t find anything mentioning in-universe this being the official story. Would Lyanna know what happened to Sansa?

      What we know and what Lyanna knows are two different things, as far as I can tell. We know Ned lied to save Sansa, we know Sansa’s excitement over her betrothal to Joffrey turned to absolute unbridled horror and hatred after seeing what Joffrey was, we know Sansa had to mask this horror and hatred in public to survive.

      Both Sansa and Jon were discredited for things that weren’t their fault. It’s not Jon’s fault he’s bastard born without a name, no more than it’s Sansa’s fault she’s a woman forced into two marriages she didn’t want.

      As for Lyanna choosing a bastard over a trueborn and a woman, Lyanna can only go by what she sees. Had Lyanna known that Sansa wrote to Littlefinger to accept his offer of the Vale’s help, that’d definitely be a point in her favour because Sansa accepting Littlefinger’s offer is why the Vale came. However, if Lyanna had known Sansa withheld this same information from their armies before the battle, it’d detract that point. Lyanna saw Jon charge ahead alone. She also saw Jon risking his life to save Ned Stark’s trueborn heir and fighting alongside their armies. To be honest, both Jon and Sansa screwed up majorly in that battle. Jon charged forth alone while Sansa withheld crucial information. Lyanna chose Jon as her king after she heard Jon speak about the true threat they face, the same threat Davos talked about on their tour that convinced Lyanna to join them. Additionally, had Jon sat back and not done anything to save Rickon, I’m not sure anybody would be rallying to the Starks in the battle’s aftermath because it’d feed into the (unfair) distrust the North already had of Jon (a bastard) and Sansa (a daughter married to enemy families). I’m not sure why Lyanna should support Sansa just for the reason that she’s a fellow trueborn woman. I don’t know what Sansa’s said or done that would prove herself in Lyanna’s eyes in 6×10.

      Please know I’m not Sansa bashing. I think Sansa loves her family deeply and I think she has a lot of potential to learn and be a good leader.

      You’re right about knitting being a much needed skill (my mum’s a lifelong knitter – I’ve got many needed scarves in the painfully cold Canadian winters). However, what I think Lyanna is saying is just because she’s a girl, she shouldn’t be sidelined from the fight that decides her fate as well – especially since she comes from a family where women are fighters. I think both men and women should know how to knit anyway because it’s a skill they both need alongside basic defense.

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    27. JR:
      Of course the show has a female problem. Always had. It wasn’t until S5 however when even the critics got vocal about it (S5 aka the rape of Sansa, almost rape of Gilly and mass rape at Craster’s…just to name 3). But the show was always misogynistic, and also homophobic, anti-religious and xenophobic. And all of this in blatant stereotypes. So yes S6 was D&D trying to fix their ‘women problem’ by not fixing anything at all.

      Lyanna Mormont is the best example of D&D simply not getting the problem and they definitely don’t know what an empowered woman is. She delivers a verbal beatdown to grown men and they not only let her but admit defeat (this is so hysterically unbelievable btw), including men who didn’t even do what she accused them of (see Lord Cerwyn). She blames women for having no autonomy or rights. Or how else does one explain her blaming Sansa for being married to Tyrion and Ramsey? Everyone knew Sansa was a freaking 13 year old prisoner in King’s Landing. And the official story for the Bolton marriage seems to be that Sansa was kidnapped while on the road with Littlefinger. But yes, lets blame Sansa, the woman, and use that as grounds to ‘discredit’ her. I thought marrying the enemy was supposed to be empowering, or so Cogman excused the ‘Sansa marriage and rape’. Lyanna endorsing a bastard who did nothing but screw up (quite frankly she should have endorsed Davos who convinced her to join) over not only the true born Stark sitting right there but a Stark who is a fellow woman. It’s extra insulting especially since this was supposed to be ‘women on top’. She doesn’t want to be sitting by the fire knitting (what is it with D&D and their knitting hate geez) while others fight…talk about empty words. Don’t remember her on the battlefield in BotB and we won’t see her in the major battles against the dead next Season either. An insult to feminine activities wrapped in faux feminism. If no one is knitting what is the army going to wear? Does Lyanna think a naked army, in winter, will amount to much? Also who is going to tend to the wounded, make bandages etc.? If the women don’t do it then who? Elves? Fairies? Sure won’t be the men/boys who don’t know how to knit.

      Overreacting a bit much?

      Game of thrones never had a female problem. Many female actors wanted a part in GoT because it was one of the few shows on the air where woman could be fighters, overcome problems that even now woman in the world (third world countries) still struggle with. Where 99% of the shows out there woman are only portrait as the “side kick” or only interesting for relationships(problems) GoT tackle more important subjects. Yes GoT also has whores, but guess what, they are human too, and even whores shouldn’t be ashamed. So blaming the show for being misogyny is just wrong. It’s a world lead by man overruling by the woman, there are even many quotes in the show that made it clear woman are better at ruling (Olena for instance when she talks about man).

      Funny you name those 3 rapes, but the rape of Theon (almost in 3×03) is left out. Raping a man is not worth naming??? It’s just as worse as raping a woman in my opinion.

      You also claim that the show is homofobic. As a gay guy I have to disagree 100%, GoT is one of the few shows out there where gay guys are portrait as normal people instead of the stereotypical way most shows portrait them. I’m glad the way GoT handled the gay characters. And also the scenes in season 5 and 6 are not homophobic, it just tackle an issue that gays tackled in the past (Where the seven can be replaced by the church), it happened, and is even happening now in the real world still in many countries. It was a good move of the show to show that on screen. And even then the show always shows us that being gay is normal, look at how Olena talks Tywin down.

      Anti-religious: How can you name homophobic and anti-religious in the same sentence when in most religious books being gay is punished by death. (ps I have all the respect for people who are religious as long as they respect me so this is not an attack). And it’s not even anti-religious, Got is one of the few shows that created multiple religious for the purpose of being realistic.

      Xenophobic: Where is GoT xenophobic? You mean the north not excepting a foreign whore? That statement? That’s not Xenophobic (of the show) that just make it clear that the characters we thought were the right guys since season 1 had their major flaws, those characters are racist bastards, not the show itself.

      About Lyanna: Try to think in her shoes (or how do you say that in English). Her family fought are war that they lost, she lost her father and family. Now the family of the one that started the first war come bagging again to give them their man. The first thing a normal person would think is: how dare you ask my family again to risk their lives for an unwinnable war. Then those same people keep on pushing you, then it’s not really strange a person will give a remark how bad that remark is. And then look at how Davos talks to her, much more diplomatic. (ps Sansa is one of my favorite and even I don’t blame Lyanna for that remark)

      sorry for the long comment, and I have respect for your opinion, I just don’t share it.

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    28. JR,

      Actually, complaints against rape in the show have become louder in season 4, not 5, around the time that the show started to diverge from the books. I stopped taking those kinds of criticisms seriously. The same people who cried out in outrage when Sansa was raped didn’t say a word when Danerys was raped in season 1, when Joffrey assaulted those prostitutes in season 2, or when Jeyne Pool was raped in the books.

      The show has not been misogynistic or homophobic. Characters in the show have been, but that does not reflect the showrunners’ view. We are not supposed to cheer the Sparrows on when they are undergoing their homosexual purge. We aren’t cheering the mutineers on when they are raping Caster’s wives. GOT has an overwhelming cast of strong female characters, such as Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Margarey, Ygritte, Gilly, Danerys, Sansa, Cersei, Talisa, Olenna, etc. Adding Lyanna Mormont into the mix is nice, but there wasn’t anything special about her addition.

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    29. Not going to lie, her character has become one of my favourite side kicks much like the Hound and Hot Pie. Full credit to the young actress too, she’s brilliant.

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    30. Young Dragon: We are not supposed to cheer the Sparrows on when they are undergoing their homosexual purge. We aren’t cheering the mutineers on when they are raping Caster’s wives.

      I agree 100%. I don’t know why this is so hard for certain people to understand. Just because something happens on t.v. doesn’t mean we’re supposed to approve of it or enjoy it. I do think rape gets used a bit too much as a plot device sometimes, but it’s also a reality that cannot be ignored. Especially in the age that GoT is supposed to take place.

      Yes, Sansa was raped. We’re not supposed to enjoy it or approve of it though. Are some people actually confused about this? Or are they trying to deny the reality that awful things like this happen?

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    31. Mr Derp:I do think rape gets used a bit too much as a plot device sometimes, but it’s also a reality that cannot be ignored.Especially in the age that GoT is supposed to take place.

      This excuse is BS. Sorry but I’m as tired as hearing that excuse as some people are of the word ‘fanservice’. It does not reflect our time in any way, shape or form. It’s very loosely based on what happened in our history but that’s it. Mass epidemics and mass rapes among armies would be required for a true reflection yet that’s nowhere to be seen. And why is only female rape so explicit in the show? Gendry, Tommen, Theon…just to name a few. A few leeches, off screen and pants shoved down and saved and then approached by two women, end scene and next scene penis gone already. While we had to watch several women, including children (see Sansa), completely naked and prolonged abuse heaped on them. If this were reflecting our time, especially in war, the raping would look very different, especially for the losing army.

      kevin1989: Overreacting a bit much?

      Game of thrones never had a female problem.

      You also claim that the show is homofobic. As a gay guy I have to disagree 100%, GoT is one of the few shows out there where gay guys are portrait as normal people instead of the stereotypical way most shows portrait them.

      Anti-religious: How can you name homophobic and anti-religious in the same sentence when in most religious books being gay is punished by death. (ps I have all the respect for people who are religious as long as they respect me so this is not an attack). And it’s not even anti-religious, Got is one of the few shows that created multiple religious for the purpose of being realistic.

      Xenophobic: Where is GoT xenophobic? You mean the north not excepting a foreign whore? That statement? That’s not Xenophobic (of the show) that just make it clear that the characters we thought were the right guys since season 1 had their major flaws, those characters are racist bastards, not the show itself.

      It’s not overreaction when it’s true. And people willing to criticize the show instead of acting as if it’s the best thing ever, have also shared several of these opinions.

      GoT definitely has a female character problem, especially when said female characters happen to be layered in the freaking source material and then just reduced to their bare minimum on the show. That’s nothing new, it’s been there since S1. They’ve never understood characters like Sansa or Cat. Brienne and Arya are layered in the books yet in the show they are nothing but men in a woman’s body. They are killers, that’s it. And Arya joins the Lyanna club of hating ‘feminine’ women and activities which is not the Arya of the books.

      Yes the show is homophobic. Loras is a freaking walking cliché and he went out like one. And you can’t have missed all the DudeBros and their penis talk just to remind us they are NOT homos.

      How can you miss the racism when S3 ended with the WHITE SAVIOR crowd surfing? That was so distasteful it made me cringe hard, and I’m not a PoC.

      It is anti-religious because again it’s boiled down to the basics as it is in our world, aka like you just did. Some of them are anti-gay. There is no need to bring that into the show since the show doesn’t take place in our world. Why focus on gay so much, or incest (even though cousin incest is FINE in Westeros), when they could have just used the Sparrow storyline as a story about power.

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    32. Young Dragon:
      GOT has an overwhelming cast of strong female characters, such as Catelyn, Brienne, Arya, Margarey, Ygritte, Gilly, Danerys, Sansa, Cersei, Talisa, Olenna, etc. Adding Lyanna Mormont into the mix is nice, but there wasn’t anything special about her addition.

      Guess we just have very different views on what a strong, female character is. Cat had most of her agency stripped from her. Her lines, motivations and thoughts from the books given to other people, and her great sin in life was not loving Jon Snow. Arya and Brienne are just fighters, nothing more to them, that’s their one trick especially now. Margery is basically just a sex kitten, she has some smarts but most of the time they are used to seduce men. Gilly constantly gets talked down to by Sam. Sansa, really? Talisa is beamed in from a completely different era. The patriarchy magically warps around Olenna and it makes NO SENSE (same with Arya). Dany constantly messes up when left to her own devices but thanks to all the MEN in her circle the world has been spared from worse. Even in S7 Tyrion and Varys made it clear that as long as they stir the boat, Dany will be fine. Jesus Christ.

      Cersei and Ygritte I give you. However Ygritte sexually assaulted Jon and Cersei raped Jamie so there is a problem there too.

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    33. JR,

      You use the word our time. Even when it’s based on the war of the roses which happened centuries ago. Rape happened then a lot. Even a lot in marriage.

      Look up in Google game of thrones empowers woman and you find a lot of news stories about that game of thrones in not in fact have a female problem but in fact and it’s true a female empower story. It has one of the best female characters in all of TV history. The character aren’t bland and only relationship material like for instance Grey’s anatomy. The characters are more have real depth. Even many actresses working on the show stayed how the show empowers woman. The truth doesn’t lie. Even the show is about their female leads.

      The show understands cat perfectly I even have to say I liked her more in the show. Her scenes as a mother and a political person was done perfectly. She even could read people better in the show than the books. Even her scene in 3×02 about Jon was one of the most layered scenes she had in books and show together.

      About brienne. If you really think people only see her as that in the show I really feel sorry for you. She is much more. And yes maybe a little les then the books but they couldnt put her story in. The story was already to big for on screen another side story to much.
      Arya really only a man in a female body? For me that’s more depowering women that sentence. Arya is much more in the show. Her whole quest to find her family. She even chooses her family over revenge last season.

      Arya in the show hates femenine stuff yes. But she doesn’t hate femenine woman. She respect everyone. She only judge on character.

      Reducing female screentime really? The upgraded the screentime of cercei a lot since season 1. Margery. Olenna. And many more female character that were minor in the books were much more important in the show. The story is even about the queens.

      And if got was so demeaning to females. Why is it that more than 50% of the watchers of game of thrones female? I know a lot of females watching the show and non think the show is depowering females. They can’t shut up about the amazing female characters in got.

      About homophobic in the show. I think as a gay guy I can sense very well when a show is being stereotypical about gays. I know a lot of shows where that happens. As for loras tyrel he is far from being a stereotypical character. And went out like one? So trying everything to stay alive after being tortured is being stereotypical. Strange argument. Sorry to say this but the way you talk about gays and what’s stereotypical comes over more homophobic than the show. (I know that’s not what you trying to say). Personally I’m very happy about the way the show put in gay characters not as gay but as people with a story. Trying to be king. Mourning a lover. Trying to defend your family.

      Dudebros? Which dude bros? And are those dudebros the ones who should like or hate and by that despise what they stand for. If that’s the case. The show even empowers gays.

      About racist. I think what you just did is just more racist. You saw a white lady and colored slaves. I saw a person with a good heart and a will to free slaves. And slaves. I never saw their color because they are just human they just happen to live in a place where their skin is more colored because you know the sun is there a lot. And didn’t you catch the moment where she says. You need to take your own freedom. But a question. If dany was colored with white slaves it wouldnlt be racist? Or is it okay then because it is a story??

      That story was put in to get to the same point as they were in the books. The deaths of the tyrels. And at the same time we shouldn’t seen the sparrows as saviors. Which would happen if that wasn’t in. It also shows how corrupt the high sparrow is and just out for power. And it was clear since season 1 that the seven are anti gay. And it’s nothing bad to show that. What would be bad if the high sparrow was portrait as the good guy making his claim about gays right. The show choose to show us that actions like that aren’t right.

      And the show isn’t anti religious. They show one bad aspect of one religion. But still the show shows the good side of that religion also.

      The show never give a pass for incest. They even made clear the gods hate it. And the people dispised it.

      How did Margery use her sexuality on cercei?
      About gilly that’s not depowering females. That shows how people like Sam book people forget that not everyone is that smart. And they forget that maybe they should listen. If gilly was male he would have done the same. And didn’t gilly have the right answer and not Sam?
      Sansa is one of the strongest person in the show if it comes to mentality. And one of the smartest.
      Really with dany? Her messing up is a female problem instead of just a problem with the character??? And why did you forget misandei?
      And so last season there was a clear sign of a male problem because a bunch of man needed saving from a female. Oh wait. It’s just the story. And dany was awesome there.
      Strange that tyrion and varys talk like that when their leader just burned 2 man alive. Your right it’s a female problem of the show. They should just encourage it. Burn them all.
      And those 2 problems with those 2 characters. Really. Ygritte and cercei.

      You really see problem in every corner. Instead of enjoying the story. Not everything has a racist homophobic etc motive. Somethings are just stories.

      This is the last I say about. I respect your opinion. And I understand your thoughts why you think that. But I think even you know grrm and d and d are far from those things you blame the show about. They are very liberal.and look up some interviews with grrm about his story. And why he put them in even when it could come across as female problem racist etc. You get an answer from a liberal (and you got mine from a progressive social liberal)

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    34. JR,

      There’s a lot to sort out in your rant, so let’s get started. I’ll begin by quoting Sophie Turner herself:

      “The more we talk about sexual assault the better,” she told the publication. “And screw the people who are saying we shouldn’t be putting this on TV and screw the people who are saying they’re going to boycott the show because of it.

      JR: why is only female rape so explicit in the show? Gendry, Tommen, Theon…just to name a few. A few leeches, off screen and pants shoved down and saved and then approached by two women, end scene and next scene penis gone already.

      Are you upset more by the fact that the show portrays rape at all or that there isn’t enough male rape to even things out? Or are you upset that you think they sensationalize rape? I’ve never seen an example of rape on GoT that acted like it was cool or acceptable, so that can’t be it. You’re all over the place here. It kind of sounds like you’re more disappointed that the show isn’t giving you enough penis shots more than anything else, tbh, which is a different discussion. You can just come out and say that if that’s how you feel. It’s ok. THere’s nothing wrong with that.

      JR: While we had to watch several women, including children (see Sansa), completely naked

      Sansa has never been naked on the show, so I’m not sure where that came from. Anyway, were you expecting Ramsey to make sweet love to Sansa down by the fire on their honeymoon or something? Once we knew Ramsey would marry Sansa it should’ve been painfully obvious that their honeymoon wouldn’t go well. SO, what specifically were you expecting them to do? Perhaps they should just shut up and avoid the topic altogether? I thought we were supposed create a dialog about sensitive topics, not shy away from them.

      I’ll close out with another quote from Sophie Turner:
      “This sort of thing used to happen and it continues to happen now, and if we treat it as such a taboo and precious subject, then how are people going to have the strength to come out and feel comfortable saying that this has happened to them?”

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    35. Mr Derp,

      First part: yes please more penis on screen. I encourage it. Hehehe jk

      About the second part. I have to agree. To give a small thing about my past. When I was 12 a 16 year old (boy) tried to force himself on me. His intentions were clear. I could get away luckily and get toward people I knew. I never talked about it for years. I had anger problems because of it and school was worse then before. When I was 19 it was the first time I ever talked about it. So it needs to be a hell for people who were really raped.
      And you’re and Sophie are right. Back then it was never shown anywhere it was moved under the carpet or how do you say that. It is needed to be shown so people dare to speak up.and shows shouldn’t shy away, but should show it. Not showing it to give it concent but show the horror that happen with people and showing what they should do. Talk about it. Taking action (in real life cops)

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    36. Nariman,

      I would argue that much of her outward bravado comes from the fact that she’s a child in years but has been forced to be an adult by circumstance. I think she’s adopted that attitude as a sort of armor against anyone who would underestimate her because of her youth and diminutive stature. Sansa and Daenerys are young, but nevertheless they are fully-fledged adults. The attitude that Lyanna Mormont takes would be unbecoming in them but is understandable in her.

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    37. Dany finds out the dragons burned a child and then in the next chapter Jon is troubled by the idea of burning children and Lyanna is introduced.

      Just saying.

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    38. JR,

      “And why is only female rape so explicit in the show? Gendry, Tommen, Theon…just to name a few.”

      could it be we don’t have the same idea about what “rape” means?

      Gendry and Theon: ok, i see the abusive aspect of sex as a trap. but Tommen? how on earth did he get raped? what did i miss? what has the cat done?

      about the show not being explicit on what happened to Gendry and Theon in these scenes: what was missing from your point of view?

      and finally: which other male rape victims are there? except for a Bw/oB deserter getting a finger shoved up his butt?

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    39. Lyanna Mormont is clearly a well spoken and educated (by both her advisors and hard upbringing) badass. I watch the scene of her scolding the wimps who didn’t fight for Jon in the BOTB over and over. I would love to tell my coworkers off like that somedays! I only hope the North remembers why they called him king. As Davos said, they did it because they believed in him. When everyone realizes a dragon raised by wolves is the true heir to the throne, I hope they remember that.

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